another realator you're a realator I am you're good but I'm not I'm not acting I have a license yeah I told her that too so I agreed with everything she told me the whole story and I told her and then I gave her some tough love on some other Financial things she's got going on and she's you know and what her future plans are and she doesn't have any choice anymore her choices are none I'm G make sure she understands she don't that's why I may let it go a little afterward first and let her get really nervous she's nervous but she's she's got some she's got some spunk to her doesn't she oh yes she does she does she's she she is not you know and and then it makes me way you know I'm thinking like oh my god did I get like hooked up with the the wrong situation here like do that that place should be gone it is absolutely stunning it's from the minute you walk through the door it is a high price but it's worth every well and that that that is possible I mean you should see the appliances in that thing you ready which was crazy for anybody to build in their in their late s it's 5 o' um and meeting is now called to order um if you would stand for the invocation and the pledge and Josh Lord thank you for the day thank you for the opportunity to gather here today to take care of your business Lord be be with each of us as we make decisions the better this Comm please be with us as we leave and prot us as we go about our day for it stands Nation indivisible andice okay um first uh everybody had a chance to look over the minutes and is there any changes or anything everybody good motion to approve second all in favor I I okay uh now for Josh go over to the financial report yep so uh nothing really noteworthy other than the expenditures for the purchases at North 6 Street um outside of that we've had a couple of different Grant Awards but that's really the only change since our last meeting the has changed or has not changed it it has we've we've awarded uh actually three new grand Awards since our last meeting talk to them now in the financial or is that coming up now it it's coming up next in the the growth and development assistance update so we'll just need a motion on the financial report motion to approve financial report anybody have any questions or any concerns about the do we get a vote on that we're getting ready to just make sure all right all in favor I I motion carried thank you the next item is the growth and development assistance grant tracking sheet as you'll note in there we did have two grand Awards on 711 and 718 one was for our residential site cleanup which is our dump trailer that we extend to folks within our area as an in kind contribution for the use of the dump trailer and then we had another grand award for a historic home over off of East Main for some window replacements I do actually uh have one on my desk that I approved earlier for 58 Balwin Avenue that's not included in this uh sheet but that will be on the next Grant tracking sheet for our August meeting any questions concerns okay let's move on to Old business uh update on string lighting project yep so uh old business 6A update on string lighting project I actually spoke with City staff today they have nearly completed all the cabling that they had to put up uh they are tracking this uh project and still are committed to the end of August getting it done they have run into some issues with the existing lighting fixtures apparently the panels that they're having to remove to do the electrical work has specialty um bolts that require a specific type of H bit to fit into that they actually bought the bit started to take them apart and then found that most of them were seiz so they're having to drill each of of them out and retap them and all that so that kind of them back a little bit but they are committed to getting this done and uh are still hoping by the end of the next month it will be completed so um that's really all that I have on on that okay um any questions or concerns all right let's move on to B update on 27 Crescent Drive so I've uh been in conversations with the culture Arts Alliance after our last meeting uh provided them with the board's interest in selling the property she uh Jennifer steel the executive director has been trying to meet with some of her board members I did actually receive a text from her just a little while ago that she met with the board member today on site and we're scheduled to have a call on Friday to to further those conversations so we're still having uh discussions about what their interest is and what that looks like and hopefully at our next meeting in August I'll be bringing something for you on that okay uh see update the Ampitheater project yep so I did meet with uh tourism staff and it looks like due to some scheduling uh issues we're going to have to wait till the October 1st uh TDC meeting but we're certainly uh on board all on board with what that ass is going to be and hope hopefully on October the 1 we'll have that front of the TDC and they'll give a nod of approval and it will go on to the BCC for advertisement um so you know I'm thinking based on the timeline that we have here probably mid next year would be my hope when we would have that feasibility report any any questions probably look in 20 30 2032 well so if we get the feasibility study back mid next year uh and it's you know favorable for what we all want to do I would anticipate uh probably a year and a half with procurement for design and the actual design so you know that puts us well into what what was that 26 before we start construction you know I think 12 18 month construction period so you know I would venture a guess three to four years um before you know inside that uh that ribbon cutting ceremony so lot a lot of hurdles to have to cross before we get there though all okay update on North 6 Street yep so uh we actually just were signing the documents uh for the purchase of those two properties so now that those have been signed they'll be recorded uh tomorrow and I will continue my conversations with the county and hopefully get on that next uh North Walton BCC agenda with a request uh for the county to consider purchasing them with the in kind contribution of the demolition so again hope by our next meeting in August I'll have some more information I can share with you on that contract with count yet I do not no we were waiting on finalization of the closing documents before you why you wait whenever you have cont to go get agreement with them well there were a lot of uh back and forth uh so we wanted to make sure that we secured ownership and the County Administrator and I both agreed that until we have actual ownership of the property we didn't want to advance that conversation any further [Music] that's consistent with the County's position not some off to sell certain of property that is not to negotiate business with persons who are not I will say that is their policy that's their policy you and I completely agree with that as you know I did help reite some of their policies on real property acquisition that was not a piece that was agre to my only deal is you know buy I think you're make something need to be aged upon before I won't be that okay all right let's go on to new business uh request to adopt the 25 budget yeah so uh in front of you is the fiscal year 25 budget which for us will start on October the 1 I did make those uh recommendations from our budget Workshop so they're included and at this point uh once you all approve this and adopted it to go to the city for formal uh inclusion in their budget documents so you guys were not here at the last meeting what we did was took the $400,000 carryover and split it between the um Amphitheater and the street Scapes correct thepose is that correct so yeah go ahead once those funds are designated they should remain designated to that project unless something happens to that project and that's how much money did you designate for that purpose it was 140 C project 340,000 so 140 of that 340 comes from that 400,000 estimated carryover amount at the top the original budget amount that I included was 200,000 we took 140 and put it in the amphitheater project we took the additional 260 and placed it in the streetcap in Alleyway you got 340,000 in this project that may not get spent until 20 well I I would say if the feasibility study comes back favorable then we would have an expenditure request for design work that will definitely exceed $100,000 But there again there 34 ,000 cannot be touched from no other project until this is completed and you allocating 340,000 at this time but cannot be touched and you still said earlier it may be 26 2027 2028 before it's completed is that correct that is not correct sir only that 140,000 uh amount will be dedicated to that project the other 200,000 comes from the operating budget for this next fiscal year so 200 of that 140 can be moved around wherever you like throughout the budget year and we have two years to spend the 140 or show that we are ready to spend it any other questions motion to approve motion to approve second okay any other questions all a on it um yes okay two yes or three yes and one may motion approved all right thank you very much next item we have is the uh results from the RFP that we let for the Downtown parking study in your packet you'll see that there were four respondents they were individually ranked in accordance with the RFP scoring rubric by myself and Chris Wallace at the uh the top of that uh form that you have there the total evaluation shows fish as being the top rank consultant for uh the RFP and so this point it would be a request to award that RFP to fishbeck and allow me to bring back contract at our next meeting for you all to approve I just find it amazing that we want to spend $34,000 on a study whenever you can identify the parking problem and you cany the parking the land available for parking I mean it' be amazing to see what they come up to $34,000 and well and just to clarify that that amount of their bid was was $ 46,00 , 373,000 $373 I thought 34 that was the lowest bid that we received but as you can see uh they received the lowest score in the [Music] evaluation the consultant uh is available by phone if you guys had any questions that you wanted to ask of them tonight again what amazes me is whenever you build a building code tell you how many parking spes you required for square m my opinion that you should be able to determine how many parking spaces available my opinion that you should be able to identify the acail provide parking spes and my opinion is that's something that you should do this is not a difficult task you have build a location that should require certain parking little land available well in in my opinion sir I don't have the skills or the knowledge to analyze that make you recommendations that's why I've deferred to this consultant and that's why we are where we are today and I will say it's a lot more than just counting how many parking spaces that we have it's identifying how can we better utilize what we have now and then how can we prepare for the future with total occupancy of the downtown to include the new downtown district that just was expanded across Highway 90 so it's a little bit more comprehensive than just going and Counting parking spaces there's quite a bit of expertise that goes into that that I simply just do not have and I don't believe City staff has I won't speak for them but this provides us with a road map and provides the city with the road map on how we can better utilize what we have and how we can plan for the future have you reached out to Main Street about partnering on this project with them I have not uh you know they' expressed they have limited funds um but you know I can tell you this is including our Redevelopment plan as a now item they did provide an estimated cost in our plan at $50,000 so we did come in underneath that um and so you know based on my phone calls that I've had with the references that they provided in there everyone has been extremely impressed and has implemented quite a bit of the recommendations that they made through that that study posibility this plan is to justify losing 18 parking spaces for I swear it would not lose that many parking places that's because I mean I'm sure that we can include that I'll tell you one thing that's very important to me through this effort is public input you'll notice in their proposal there's quite a bit of that through a public Workshop uh in in addition to the stakeholder individual stakeholder meetings they'll have along with all of the other Main Street City Council planning board and CRA board meeting so you know I think this is a great opportunity to have someone that has the knowledge and expertise to come in take a look at what we have have conversations with those that are most affected by this uh and incorporate all that into a solid plan that that we could not only use for now but for the future because we've got two buildings down town that are quite large that are not occupied they're vacant so if those become occupied then what do we do so there again do and I think that we spend a lot of our money Engineers a whole lot of only $1,000 50,000 for another 30,000 on if if they this if this p a bill is study I'm assuming they're going to determine whether parking is sufficient or insufficient as the this point that's correct yeah if if the parking study is done and it shows that there is totally insufficient amount of parking do they come up with a plan on how to fix it they sure do yeah they're going to come up with some short-term recommendations um you know I certainly won't speak for them but it would be my guess and based on my understanding some of these other studies that I've looked at how to come up with limited parking uh so to discourage some of the long-term parking from employees and things of that nature um and it would be looking at strategic locations to Target for acquisition of vacant Parcels for parking lots parking structures whatever the case may be so they're going to look at all of those things in a very comprehensive way and and make a recommendation or series of recommendations now that'll include all the um legalities the rules and stuff with the runoffs and all that stuff all that kind of thing yeah so they're not going to get into the weeds of you know what the regulatory requirements are for construction they they'll look at it more from what's available what's needed uh where to best locate you know that needed Park and things of that nature um but you know I would think that there'd be some consideration for you know to the to the totality of the laws and Land Development code I mean all that would be included uh in their observations and then their their findings basically what this could entail is that they say that they want Park one come it it very well could be um you know I I don't know I think it's going to be based upon what they find through their observations they're going to come on at least two different days at different times and they're going to spend all day analyzing traffic flow and they're going to count you know how many people come and go they're going to look at pedestrian flow they're going to look at a lot of things and and try to make a a pretty good set of recommendations that will Aid not only the C but the city and the public for you know years to come I spoke with one of the references in there today in um the state of Illinois and she just explained to me how important it was for them to go through this effort and they were really struggling now they're thriving as a community in their parking so you know will that happen here I would like to think so can I guarantee that's going to happen here no uh all I'm saying is here's an opportunity where we can hire a consult that understands how to do this kind of work at a favorable price in my opinion less than what our consultant provided and if the board decides that they don't want to move in that direction that's your choice uh all I can do is present present this information to you and at this point that's where we are does this incorporate like crosswalks and things like that too we'll look at some of the pedestrian flow for sure and and analyze bike traffic and all that good stuff all that stuff you need to put in cont cont in your packet in that proposal it it it illustrates exactly what it is that they're wanting you know to do what they're proposing to do okay you know I I think that in the end they've done lots of these so this is not unfamiliar territory I spoke with uh the project manager for this company he said that you know he he don't really know much about the area but he loves doing small town parking studies so you know the the lady I spoke with earlier today from Illinois she raved about it so you know I feel confident in their abilities to provide us with a good parking study and a set of recommendations and hopefully we'll be helpful for moving forward um just in here on the proposed budget part it says optional service yeah so they included an additional public workshop at about 50% of the study to express you know what they have come up with so far not required something they've offered as an option um certainly something for the board to consider if you wanted to do that as well right now their public Workshop is focused more at the beginning explaining the public what they're here to do getting some feedback through online surveys and things of that nature uh and then they will report their findings um you know through another public forum around the 95% uh threshold I believe is what I recall from that and then they would help with presenting it to the regulatory body so our board the Planning and Zoning Board and then the city council and Main Street boards and all those would be you know open to the public to participate but that's what that 50% Workshop option is that they provided there okay but that's not included in the 46 that's not it's an optional amount an additional amount now as for the advertising for the workshops for the public coming in to put in their two cents is that do we come up with that trying to get them here or is that part of the do they help with that no they're going to handle all of that um you know they'll host the workshops they'll help you know advertise the workshops obviously we'll help advertise for them where we can um but it will be a consultant Le Workshop um and then they'll come and meet with all the city staff meet with all the individual stakeholders that they want to meet with and you know at that point um have that public Workshop where the the general public can come and provide their input and learn more about the project because we want to make sure that at all possible get as many people involved sure like especially all the businesses and stuff down there and I can tell you I had a meeting with Main Street uh they did like a business social on a Thursday evening and there were probably including peara who hosted the event four or so five businesses that were you know there from the downtown district and they all exclaimed to me that hey we've got a parking problem so I shared with them that we're in the process of an RFP for a downtown park study that will hopefully analyze some of that make some recommendations they all seem very excited about that you know I think at the end of the day uh some people are recognizing we have some challenges so here's an option to hopefully find some solutions or remedies for those challenges well just for clarification too um I know that y'all voted or you know uh scored them um these others maybe so that the public knows on uh why the we didn't take the lowest bid itself yeah so the scoring rubric in the RFP added cost as a component of the total score so cost was not a primary U function of the scoring as you'll note there in that sheet it was a score of up to 25 points of the total amount of points available so it was just a component of the total score so unlike an ITB proposal never anybody else have any questions we want to make a motion to accept this I can't make can't make motions did not know that I'm not making a motion sorry do you want to make a motion I think we should wait till the next meeting I'd like to look through some of this you want to table this I think so she would like to table it for us do we need to make a motion for table table please okay motion to table all in favor three I'm get the new girl an opportunity oh I think all should have I'm not for it you can for next year I second thir of spending money on stud and architect Engineers most I've ever seen business you know I saw a thing on Instagram and they built the Empire State Building 541 days no 440 days bu B 5 it's all just studies and engineers and opinions and consult you don't [Music] okay okay let's move on to C request for approval for advertising historic district design yep so this is uh a request to advertise an RFP to help with historic district design standards this is an agenda item we talked about at our last meeting I've met with a number of organizations to include the ewf historic trust City staff H Pig and we have all agreed that this is the scope of work anyway in this RFB is favorable and and what we need so this is a request to advertise this RF came from P they came from Paca they're not going to do the study what's that capable of doing the stud now they said they would help us once we get this um a quote to do the study they would help pay for the study wasn't there a grant available I'm not aware of that I I know that they had offered some assistance getting us through the RFP process but I'm not aware of of them committing any dollars for that supp oh what uh just to clarify real quick Mackenzie Brown from University of West Florida historic trust um the we mentioned at the last meeting were the division of historical resources small matching grants they're up to $50,000 for historic related services so if you wanted to you could apply or have the city apply or have Josh apply for some of that money to so once this R um RFP comes back and we get a a budget on what this will cost they will we can get a matching Grant up to 50,000 potentially yeah I can't promise anything um and as far as UWF involvement um our historic preservationist can help you score any proposals that you receive okay I'm good with this we I'd like to make a motion that we proceed with that RFB okay all in favor I I hey Miss Henderson telling me a park stud have community in that's a good part that's a okay motion pass right uh Dave uh he just needs Direction on this Veterans Memorial yep so I actually have Dr Henderson here she has a presentation that she'll go over uh with you if you so desire this is the project that came through our Redevelopment Plan update as one of our C Improvement projects the consultant didn't give it a prior prioritization nor did the consultant give it an estimated cost for construction um but what I put before you tonight is a task order proposal that if you want me to move forward I will reach out to the city's engineering consultant duberry and have them give me a proposal based on what I'll put together uh for the engineering of that project that point uh we'll have a better idea as to you know what that design cost is going to be and then the board can decide if they want want to move forward with the engineering phase of that explain to me again are we under the contract to use this engineering firm or should we ask for BS on it they spend very high on their we are able under our relationship to p c ex and contract 2875 we're then subject to that statute of limitations consideration here is if you do not wish to use that we would need to each individual project solicit Services engine I just find it very concerning whenever they have one $18,000 and I would like to see us at least ask for bidal bid and get others to get it and give other opportunities it seem like if they're L under the to the contract I like to know if they're competitive well I I won't speak for dubery and I C certainly won't speak for the city's continuing Services agreement that they have but based on my experience those prices that they give through that continuing service agreement are less typically than it will be if you go out and solicit them individually how many Engineers have you heard individually how many Engineers that you heard um you want me to list them off tonight on your how many Engineers have you heard as individual as do as an individual yeah I have never hired engineer as an individual but in my professional role Mr Johnson can I please qualify my state okay you go ahead in my RO qualified it in my role sir may I please have the floor goad in my role in my previous job I was a project manager for projects that exceeded three and a half million dollars I work with over a dozen engineering firms I I get that you don't like what I'm telling you but I like to think that you hired me and this board hired me from my qualifications and from my experience and at the end of the day I'm here to serve this board but I do appreciate some respect for what I'm bringing to this board I'm not bringing you nonsense I'm bringing you stuff that's well grounded in facts well- grounded in research and well- grounded in my qualifications and experience and I'm going to be honest with you Mr Johnson right here right now if you don't see me as being favorable for this position you have the option to get rid of me I make the motion right now ter okay that's certainly your option to do because the what I was trying to get to you was that I took and had four different Engineers to do a 60 30 40 and 15 so there is whenever you're in the private sector there's a difference we're not in the private sector sir we're in the public sector and we have to follow procurement policies that the city has by Statute but but regardless of that chair we have a motion on the floor to terminate me has anyone no second anything else you like to ask well i' like to take and B this out we can certainly do whatever this board wants to do um so for an engineer speciic so we if that's the case then it would be a request to we're not obligated under the continu contract to use them I want to be clear to Mr Johnson statement is completely as he looking the our ability to use the city's Contin contract does not require us to what we cannot do is take multiple firms under one contract but it is certainly within our perview to issue an RFQ for consulting services and any engineering firm meeting R retain servic this specific project so you can't take and ask have different Engineers did on this specific project well to do so because engineering is a professional service by 28755 Florida statute Mr Johnson you cannot do an ITB for engineers you actually have to go through a qualification what you do is you rank them based on qualifications and then negotiate their rats they are not for those type of Professional Services you don't do an ITB bid or an RFP like we did on this other element and on this RFQ you you sort of come up with what your budget may be and and because the last time we did an RFQ they came right in at the at you can but you don't have to I want to be very clear we did last time what they did was we already had a budget on that and they did they just simply looked at our numbers they came right in it what we would say in this one and they may well ask but but you enter into you request qualification for engineering firms that wish to perform this project there's anybody interested they're going to submit their qualifications you rank them solely on qualifications then you go to the top ranked firm whoever your top ranked firm is priority negotiation you negotiate a rate with them if you like their rate and you're good with it you order if you don't like their rate they're gone you move to number two if number two comes into there double you don't get to go back to number one you got to keep going down the line so it's not always a guarantee that you're going to get I I just I highlight that point not because I'm saying it's bad I just want everybody saying you're like with negotiation like can I make them all negotiate you can't make them bid against one another under contract or in the effort to award the contract that is the challenge under the 28755 perview whether it's a continuing contract or not and we do have to adhere to that broadly as a state statute it's one of those broad ones we have to adhere to and I'm not so sure you accomplish anything accompl is have three four bids that you can look at and I'm a and I'm afraid you're exactly right but the state has chosen to protect certain professional service classes within the engineering and Architectural field specifically from having to do this they have also have endeavored to have specific statutes for services that we have to go through a very detailed process on how you award and select and can't just make it about doing this would would give him the information he's looking for though right you know it would give him what he's looking for whether we use it or not correct depends on going do the rank this board would you don't have enough staff to have a ranking committee unfortunately so you would have to do yourself this and that would include interviews if you will so it would just be a matter of more um you know Josh would just have to you know get these all together and you know go through the process and then it would give him what he's looking for as far as the price-wise to determine whether who we want to use is appropriate or not and then we just we we just ignore them I would say this this is not what Mr Johnson's asking for either but I'm go put it on the table while we're talking about it so iisy throw something at me or perhaps you because it's not what you're asking for either so I may aggravate all of y'all I'm done speaking so maybe I should be quiet but if the concern is the quote we are receiving from the city's continuing contract engineer there's going to be an inordinate amount of time and effort and some cost by the way but it's could be the Minimus in the long run but it is going to be some cost attached to doing an RFQ as required by Florida statute every time we wish to engage an engineering firm to do any project now certainly this type of project and the total cost 20 years ago this is what you would done would have worked through design build you have a contractor come in with their own engineer they design and build it for you you give them the specs where you want now you don't have anybody doing that except a multi multi-million dollar projects this is the problem we run into so with that being the case if you do want to look at that it may well be proof for this board to consider doing an RFQ talking to Engineers about the type of projects we do rather than say the broader Public Works projects such as water Wastewater Street are going to be similar we're going to touch on some of those but it may be that the bulk of our bids and our task quarters we're issuing are not consistent with the type of Public Works and infrastructure projects the city does for instance the C I'll give you a good example the county has far more Public Works projects that are Road based Than Water and Sewer because the county doesn't operate a water Wastewater system so their Engineers they don't need an engineer that has any Wastewater experience experience outside of their plant there mad which is very limed the city on the other hand in defunc has boats so we have Engineers we need to do both go to Free Port they don't operate a public works department so if they bring in an engineer with a bunch of Road experience and no water experience that engineer is not worth anything to so what I would say is it may well be that you find if you do an RFQ and let a few firms propos to do our work and is certainly within your right you select a firm that has the experience of the type of projects you want and you negotiate with them OB we didn't negotiate the city's contract and talk about what are our bases P bases it's going to all be pretty consistent the USDA curve I want yall to be aware of that most of them don't get outside of that but you can negotiate what are standing numbers and not and perhaps we have our own continuing contract that's not something that I I sat through your budget workshop and didn't comment on this because I still felt like Hey we're probably still a little far away we're probably better off piggy back to our existing contract because I don't know that we can provide enough business for an engineer to truly want to walk in here and do that in another year or so maybe we're in a different perspective but I'll go ahead and mention I guess tonight is if that's what you want it may make the board feel more comfortable knowing that it's an engineer that came in and and they're not quoting you large mode fees because they're used to working for $200 million entities and $60 million budgets they're used to working with this and you will find smaller engineering firms that may well be willing to put their name in and do so c um understanding how that would work but that's not before you today but otherwise what I would say is every time we have this conversation you're probably know go through a process let's say we streamline it and I'll run it for you in 30 days most engineering rfqs if there's any state money coming in they're going to want a minimum 30-day advertisement they don't like us running twoe advertisements they always want first in 30 days so you're going be a 30-day turnaround we if we issued it today and you gave us permission to put it on the street trusting legals review without coming back to the board next month 30 days going to put you on to so 30 days will put you to July 25th and to August 25th is going to be your run date for so it'll close on August 24th and heretically you could have it back by August 28th if everything went perfect if it didn't then you're not even going to have it back by your next meeting so you're talk about two months that's the benefit of having a continuing contract and I do think if that's something you're looking at you probably need to D that conversation off sooner than later based on conversation that happened here and that still doesn't get you a three bids Mr Johnson so I do apologize but it gets you an engineer that maybe is not one that you're concerned is heavy-handed but are they scared away knowing that there's this continuing no be we would be as part of our Q we'd be very clear that we're offering a continuing contract for our Direct Services um and that while we relied on the city's continuing contract before this would be directly between the CRA and that engineering dep okay but the city's contract and also bid on if they so choose if duberry or any other entity that's ever bid for the city or dely they are welcome to put in we're just evaluating them for our services but is it clear to say that because it's not the water and it's not the public works that it could be cheaper per hour I think you would be able to negotiate a fee scale that does not have to adhere to us daap curve for water and wastewater projects and would not have to track the do model for road construction projects so could it be yes if we went this route I would assume that your director and I in our negotiation after talking to the board would probably discuss what type of flat rate percentage based in fixed contract orders can be used as parts of these projects to understand that we need a set of engineered design plans and we think our total construction cost is going to be $80,000 we don't need a $30,000 engineering bill $80,000 contract when you gave us the same $30,000 price to do a $200,000 contract so there may be some more negotiation opportunity I will say this you're going to get a smaller mode of people interested the smaller your budgets are but we receive more input on a couple projects and pack than I thought we did so I was completely wrong when I didn't think we would get the level of interest and we got more than two of them I thought we'd get more so this may not be the appropriate project to to to seek this out at this time maybe a bigger project no I think if you're going to do I think if you're going to talk about putting somebody on continuing contract where they're handling all of our work and we negotiate the rate in advance of what they're going to do you need to go ahead and do it and because if you put it out this one project what's our total construction budg so I could guess guess 000 L 300,000 I will be very again I've been wrong and hope I'm wrong on this one but i' be very surprised if you get more two proposals and I'll qualify that by saying if you do get more than two give me a mulligan on that because one of them might be the city's engineer offering to bid it again so you're not going to get three new quotes we've had I can tell you we've had resurfacing Paving projects in another municipality that were over $600,000 that we couldn't get I think the only reason we didn't exce the number of tax Health USDA bank money which is pretty safe and secure in a sense I'm in complete sympathy with Mr Johnson I'm used to going out and getting my contractor to look at this this this say how many dollars per square feet and if he can't do the project he tells me and he recommends three people that might be able to do it uh then I can compare but I'm working for the public in this and you know it's not for me and I don't know all the ins and outs and I have to put my trust in the people that have done it before because if I do it I'm only going to have one mistake I W they'll kill me I want somebody else to suffer the blame blame cost extra so you know I don't know I've been at this for 10 years I hope to live to see it done that's all I can tell you I have one question regarding the actual um on the I I am for this project and the site location of this project um have we determined that there are no d uh restrictions that will prevent us from doing this on that property on I not directly looked at that talked about it one time it um but I have not exported to the degree that we would need we are restrict let me say there are always issues with those old late the real question becomes if we want to do something how bad do we want to do the there are restrictions I have a copy of the deed in my briefcase here I have a cop of The it's very difficult to see however we've sort of violated those repeatedly but the city has been adamant to keep anything that they do to fit with the passive Park intent of Mr Bruce and the city they have not allowed a lot of of active things to go on in the park except for one day festivals or limited festivals in other words they're not going to let somebody build a golf course out there something that involves walking picnicking that sort of thing we've done we we built the amphitheater after this deed was done we built the fountain Wallace Bruce was much in favor of gazebos and we've added and taken down and added and taken down those one building that he specified that we could have in the contract was a boat house but we've never built one maybe if we can someday build the the auditorium back at the back of it we might have a boat house and we can have paddle boats and things like I'm GNA go for that so I can put my house say about I want to be very clear it's come up the deed is well over Florida has a statute referred to as record title that functions to abolish restrictions on the faces of Deeds greater than 50 years old in a change of time so our Ro of title goes back to this now there have been actions of the city that have purported to carry the restrictions out beyond that technically the marketable record title act likely abolished every one of those restrictions to Future users in their attempts to do so the complicating matters are the city's recognition and treatment of those um secondly the ability of anyone to step into a now defunct and non-existent organization that could enforce those uh the Florida Statutes H burer Clauses also have certain language that did not exist with this the were done it does not so because of some of those issues the city has always taken the approach of treading life what I would say Miss Henderson knows that our firm's opinion on this has been pretty consistent is if you are going to go into that Park and you're going to attempt to establish or ere something that is a permanent structure again I'm not talking about the cutouts they put up around Christmas Reflections that are there for even more than a day they're there for season a true permanent structure is it consistent with what's already there one if it's not consistent with what's already there don't even move on if it is consistent with what's already there is it consistent with what's already there in that part of Chipley Park Drive around the lakeyard there's a part of Chipley Park that certainly does have buildings that you can draw a pretty good quadrant of where that is there's a part that doesn't so what are you putting and where does it go that has been our historical guidance to the city to avoid running a fou of these issues but what I would say is if this city desire if the CRA desired to correct this obtaining City permission and direction would be part of it and then it would be as part of that determining where we wish to locate it within CH until we get to that that's a question I would say this if you get too far outside of Presbyterian Church to the shako building you start to wonder what the intentions were because there's a clear internal inside the circle development of that quadrant if you you've heard us say that a long time the shito building and the Presbyterian Church both have 100 feet on either side that were deeded to them I have about three or four support letters from the Presbyterian Church that they would like to see it in place but it is the city property um I have several different places have been proposed that this might be um erected but every time I've shown the slides or presented it to somebody I've tried to incorporate their suggestions like when I showed it to the veterans the overwhelming desire is to have it exactly as you see the picture has the city G given you any indication at all as to whether whether this is something that they would approve in 2009 I spoke to each council person individually they were all in favor of it and I told each one of them I would not hold them to it because their constituents may not like it later wrong when it was presented or they may hear an argument from a fellow city council member it came before the council and I thought I had five votes it was three to two no because one of the council members spoke up and said there's an endangered bush in the middle of that Circle and so immediately uh two of the other votes that I thought I had said voted no because uh his name was Gillis and he knew what he was talking about um later I looked it up it was not indeed endangered so I put the project to bed and recently about four years ago members of the black community came to forc and said we have money a little we have no land and we have a desire for a Veterans Memorial at about that same time the city was talking about a permanent Veterans Memorial the council was uh because of the impermanence of the pictures uh in the courthouse and several other things so I told the people who came to me if they could give me little Christmas because I was snowed under I'd try to come up with something and and this came to me that this project could be expanded as a Veterans Memorial and that it was in keeping with the city project because you don't want to bury a a a memorial someplace where people don't go uh my other view is you don't you must decide whether you want a monument that people go stare at or if you want something that is interactive in terms of remembrance walking reflection that sort of thing and so I thought it fit in real well did you all get slides in your packet uh on this Jess okay where is it I don't see it and also you had a sheet front and back okay click it on Jessie does anybody have a question about what a labyrinth is it's not a maze it's not intended to confuse you just walk in and walk out um they're they've been around for thousands and thousands and thousands of years we have one in the parking lot at the senior center at the Civic Center in the senior at the senior center at the senior center do they walk it not anymore they're too old or honestly to be honest with you it's just kind of funny because they feel like when they're walking around in the because they are very um you know they're they're just meditate very you know it's good for meditation but they feel like a little um I guess I want to just use the word stupid walking around in circles in the parking lot like that people wonder if there's something wrong with them so they they won't use it but now maybe you know because they are very they're they're a good thing in 2010 we had an expert come to sha assembly and speak about labyrinths and um we rented or we we got on loan a labyrinth canvas one and put it up in the Methodist parking lot um the whole three or 4 days of the conference and people walked it over and over again the next year in 2010 the the assembly was not about the Labyrinth but we got the thing again and with with uh very little advertisement we put it up not in that Circle because at that time there was a tree growing in the middle of it we put it up near that area yeah we kept it Up 3 hours during that time 65 people came and walked it they want to know what it was how you used it what it was for and you know I don't claim that that amount of interest will continue that's why I think whatever we build there should be multi-use you can use the surface of it for weddings performances and the veterans prot particularly liked the idea of being able to have veterans ceremonies there a couple of things that surprised me when I presented it to the three veterans groups was that they suggested that we have a place for Flags but they did not want them kept up permanently because they felt that would be an inordinate amount of work for the city to have to raise them and lure them raise them in the morning lure them in the evening but they would like to have them so that they could be put up during festivals or during during ceremonies that called for flags and so whoever we would get to design that would have to help us with that because I don't know exactly how that could be done they did want the service emblems figured into the design somewhere when I asked them and this was a total surprise how we could put the m Memorial bricks which I hope to sell to people with the excess going to the city for maintenance um where we how we would put them would they want a section for Davey Army and the their response to a man was no we serve together put the bricks together and since then I've thought and I've had questions about if I wanted to find a memorial brick how would I find it well I'd have to spend a long time probably looking and then I said to myself does it matter is it that person's name on The Brick that you're looking for or is it the ambience that that place can create with privacy of um bushes and trees and benches that you could sit down on and think so I don't know the answer to that whenever we get to that point I'm sure some committee will be set up that will include veterans and uh maybe they can come up with an answer but do you know how many veterans we have in this County you 6,800 and something at the last check and that's been about 18 months ago um and those are veterans who reside here not the ones who have died previously and I would propose that it be for both living and dead veterans they sered they deserve recognition are you talking about like building something that's like up high or is this Memorial like just that flat surface like just on the you see a picture in there that the second one is like aabon Park second picture that you have in your phone right here yes mhm now we have no picnic Pavilion or any large Gathering space for outdoor groups in our park and uh one of the reasons in addition to that that I chose to include that in the design was I was looking for a fur app Grant you know the Florida uh Recreation development grants for they fund things like this and I was looking at what their priorities were and one of the tricks at write for writing grants is to find out what the granting institution wants and right to it picnic Pavilion and uh Trails were they biggies this is a good trail for people with limited Mobility they can't go on the bike trails and the other kinds of hiking trails that the state um funds and espouses but they can go on something limited like this there's a picture of a child who's been to the library obviously and he's walking on a memorial Labyrinth that Boston College put up to honor the their graduates that died in 911 um now would you would this be something okay I can stop it right there all right this is uh this picture here this would be like on the outside edges of it or is it would we be walking on that in the laate part of it what that picture I think well yeah you said that's just explaining what it is okay so uh and maybe how you use it you put where would the actual Memorial be it be the bricks that we walk on that's correct except that the mor Memorial ones the inscribed ones would be around the edges okay and so it could be added too because we're g to be so we'd have to take that into consideration as well well no you would just add where you left off because most memorials that you see and there are a couple of pictures in here I would not recommend them because as soon as you finish you realize that you've left somebody off and there's no need there's no way to get them back in there um and I pictur two of them in this series well that's what I'm saying is how would you add two had just where you stop laying bricks when somebody buys a memorial brick we go out there and add it to the end of the line okay but if you only got this much space you can put it in well you can you can also put them on walkways on on walls that you would hold dirt back with you you can put them anywhere you can put them in the middle of the well I mean so whenever we they Design This that has to be taken into consideration that's right is where what you can build that can add add names because you know veterans aren't going to stop yeah you can put a lot of bricks around and and about 10 courses around a structure that's 52 feet across yeah but you said there's like 6,800 veterans already well I think that the people from Dunc will use it most and choose to buy bricks most I'm talking about the county okay so only those that purchase the brick skin will have their veterans name put on there and they could even purchase bricks for Civil War veterans if they wanted to what what exactly are what kind of direction are you looking for today on this project so my my direction is to take that task order that I put for you and get a proposal from duberry on the design okay and that needs motion and cost I don't just Direction yeah I think just Direction at this point um you know at this point uh if you want to move forward that would be the first step so they would give a quote based on this based on the actual task order that's in your packet I can find that here and at some point along the way it has to go before the city it's their property and they have to maintain but we can't put it up on the screen okay yeah Jesse it's it's it's like the first two pages so now you said that this would um so basically that would be sent to that the task order would be sent to get an RFP yeah that's so so the task order would be sent to duberry and and the reason uh that I chose that instead of the RFQ is it's more timely because of the agreement already in place I give that to them they create a proposal cost cost to to create it to do the design and if you see to do the design y Jesse if you'll scroll up just a little bit so the scope of services are bullet tied here and so surveying conceptual designs you know we have a general idea what it wants what we want it to look like but we don't know exactly so there'll be some conceptual Design Elements uh there'll be some Community meetings where we'll gain input from the public what do you want out of this project here are some ideas that we have what say you design so this will be the formal design of the project permitting if there are any permits for regular agencies they would be responsible for that bid support services so if we get to a place to construct it they will help us through the bid and then lastly construction Administration so if we hire a contractor contractor goes out there to perform the work they run into an issue with the design the engineer there to help us along the way respond to request for additional information resolve errors that may exist and then scroll down a little bit those are the deliver that they'll provide to us so you've got surveys conceptual design 30% preliminary designs 60% 90% obviously any permit applications and then 100% construction documents and along the way you'll see these Engineers opinion of probable cost so as they start getting more detailed in the design they'll be able to to better Define what their estimated cost of construction will be based on historical values so at what what point in in this um task order here would it be feasible to find out from the city whether they will you know agree with this this endeavor we have to ask them sure well I mean before we even you know it just sounds like to me if this is a complete no why would we waste duberry's time and everybody else's time y so I know that Miss Miss Henderson spoken to Kobe about this and Kobe's direction to her and I won't speak for Miss Henderson is that this is a project that was included in our Redevelopment plan that city council adopted uh if the desire tonight is to give me direction to solicit this proposal from blueberry I have no issue going before the city council uh prior to coming back to you in August with that proposal from duberry um I I think it's a great project and you know we need to move forward I would think personally but you know we need to know what the city you know how much how much area what can we build what can't we build sure um uh once the task order is completed and we know a little bit more about what we're doing and the city has already of course agreed then we can go out for Grants or seek funding to get it done um but right now it's too nebulous to try to I wouldn't know what to ask for what you saying is first of all we need to get permission from the city council that they were allow I want to make sure that we allow it before Josh goes through more work duberry does you know um is what I would think I don't know per first is what that's what you're asking I think you would not hurt to get permission first and just make sure they're on board now what I want to ask you is are you okay with us giving him direction to go directly to duberry or do you still want to go out with the rfqs to the other contractors $8,000 to One Park I want see well the parking thing is already over here we're talking about the veterans now so what do you do you remember what Market I do and I I totally agree with you but I want to just make not when so are you still saying that the direction to Josh is going to be not to go directly to duberry but to go ahead and get quotes So you mean to tell me you will not vote for this Veterans Memorial based on the fact that we go directly to duberry versus getting out ourf talk time get the city council I'm negotiating with just hang on man you started this I'll do this one but I won't do another one until we go I I I'll I'm in agreement with that okay I'm in agreement with that because I do agree you got to do is get City approve now at some point if you're going to continue continue to want these different rfqs then we need we need to jump on it but you know I I don't think this is I don't really like it for this one here but you heard what clay said you know this is something that we need to do in my opinion get do you need to go to see Miss Henderson tell him you want the parking study and see what happens for me please real quick pardon me tell him you really want to go for the parking study just in that area next agenda item right here is um request to be on agenda next meeting I want you in here discussing the parking study because I want to see what Joe does he probably won't show up in in abundance of caution why don't we do this why don't we let Mr Irvin present this matter Miss Henderson to the city council that gives us a little bit bigger audience at a public meeting at one of their meetings to to see what the guidance is see what the temperature and reception is on it for instance if there's push back it's not a huge issue one way or the other um I do think it is probably a worthwhile discussion to let the city council know Mr Urban presents that there is a little consternation from this board uh regarding the cost of the services when we're trying to put a dedicated Memorial in and see if perhaps maybe further discussion could be had on the cost I'm not going to obligate duberry and duberry is not sitting here so I probably would be more pointed if they were I'll simply say they were not duberry they were a different company that was bought by duberry years ago but I think Dr Henderson you've certainly seen the Veterans Memorial in Pre Port mayor you have something down there they're very proud of I think they've done a very good job of it that's been almost completely Community funded the city's chipped in very little money over the years when they've had to um but some of their design work I will know originally was donated by that predecessor company don't know that a large entity like duberry is in a position to do that or not but perhaps letting the council know that there is some concentation about the cost just to design and do some of this may provide us some additional assistance but as long as it doesn't turn into a threatened Bush and they all vote no you'll be there to present I'm confident you won't get all I do have before me you've you've never been unanimously voted down in front of the city counil Dr it's 2009 not unanimous but not anous that's my point they're not all GNA vote now um I do have before me 34 support letters from Community organization boards and a total of um 85 people who've reviewed this and spoken positively it think most of us think it's a good project it's just the way we go about doing the project proposal that he so that sounds fair what he was so the the direction to him would be what he said right uh Josh is going to he's got the direction of going to talk to the city council and bring us back information so uh that's good any public comments she'll get there com now you want me to shut up uh youon in my vocation for a lot of years I uh Mayor Bob Kamp you guys that my surprise yeah okay good deal anyway uh I have worked in a lot of cities I've worked in a lot of spaces around the country especially in the Southeast and uh and for most of the places I went you walked you know usually five six seven blocks to get where you were going from where you parked um we've kind of been spoiled here you like to pull right up into the front door uh I don't know of course I want it to be where uh downtown is special I don't know that we have to put people right in front of the business to make them happy uh first of all Josh have you know meeting with a lot of the business owners that you know uh my recommendation would be that the employers employees and service contractors Park well away you know we have and we can probably get more specific but we got a lot of places you can park east of uh Sixth Street and West of 9th Street um that a lot of employers and employees could park and leave all those spaces and those four real main blocks utilized for your customers if you want customers work for them don't don't fill them up with your employees you know and uh but I I we do need some parking we do need uh I think the project is a very worthwhile project for the time being I'd say this would be the best thing anybody could do and like you like we said you know we got two large buildings are not even facilitated right now it's going to probably need you know um eight to 10 parking places at minimum a piece so we'll be in some real trouble there we well know when you drive through there particularly Tuesday through Friday there's very few parking places available and so it is an issue it's a good issue it's always good whenever you're looking for places to park you know but uh but that's just something I would U both encourage employers employees and maybe you know service contractors unless their vehicle is a piece of equipment they got to have nearby uh we used to you know that's what we did and we would have to drop our technicians off with their ladders or with their tool belts or whatever and then they parked six seven 8 nine blocks away and walked usually whoever was the lead man had to do that technicians got to get dropped off but anyway I I just think and it's a little bit of a there a slow period of Minds being changed you know people uh you know you can get in a a big place like a Walmart and probably walk Three City Blocks in the one parking lot you know and you just don't really think about it well I in the parking lot well yeah you just want Three City Blocks to get where you're going and uh but anyway anyway so that's just something to be thinking about and and and and lastly U uh you know with the memorial Veterans Memorial I know that Wy has been working on this whenever I came in as mayor and um I would really love to see it come to pass I uh I think that you know having the discussions with the public are good U it's tough you know because you got some just absolutely won't want it but the fact that it's dedicated to our veterans I think that would give a lot of Precedence and like clay said a few minutes ago you might even get a major discount on engineering and others so because it is uh a real favorable thing you know and so we live in a very veterans loving community so I would take advantage of that as well so that was my two bits thank you I have another two bits you ask my opinion about parking and this is a little off the subject from what y'all were talking about but um the the second revision of our nomination to make the shiaka um campus a National Historic Landmark will soon be going before um the National Park Service for evaluation if it passes that it's going to go to National it won't be right away but in a number of years we will have people wanting to see our area I don't want them parking in front of my house we don't want them parking downtown we don't want them parking around the circle because those are the services we use that destroys the ambience and I've gotten up and said many many times in city council please think forward about parking letting these people park off site and bring them by buggy or trolley or you know however you want to do it that fits in with the ambience of um our Circle and our Historic downtown and we have to start preparing for that long years ahead before we really need it because we can't wake up one day and say these people that are wanting to come and see and drw money are driving us nuts because their automobiles are taking up our whole lives add to that the amphitheater is only going to add to that but that will only be used like two to three hours at a time but you're right yeah yeah especially if you street parking for that will be needed but if they but if we we make a new Amphitheater and stuff and it's more us user friendly we make may have more events and not just a couple but any other uh public comments I would comment on the parking and I think there's very limited land available I thatly you're not have that OPP well and I was also going to I was waiting for board member comments on that touching on what the mayor had talked about and what U Mindy talked about and going to ask you this question so I'm already on the fence about this parking study I'm just I'm I'm right on the middle of the fence I'm sloping over on one side of it um so we you know well like he brought up Walmart okay Walmart I remember when I used to be able to pull up at the front door Walmart and go inside Walmart now I gotta walk six miles in 110 degree weather nothing I can do about it there's no parking study or anything that is going to fix that unless I go at 6 o'clock in the morning you know when everybody's asleep so my question is if we proceed with this parking study we and we find out we need more parking area what is the difference between you you only have so much space to put parking C started out at the very beginning of us buying a property to put parking and now we're seeing more and more so wouldn't it be more feasible to take the $46,000 and add it to another $300,000 and buy the biggest piece of property close to town we could and just for parking in it I think it's a valid question I I think that at the end of the day what we're asking the consultant to do is to identify what size parcel we need because I think if we buy too small of a parcel what have we really accomplished and you know to the mayor's point I won't beat up on your mayor um but the argument's always been well we'll just ask people to go Park a block away well what's happened recently a block away in front of lastt so it it's it's kind of like painting um or or pushing around with a broom dust that's kind of what but you're always going to be parking a block away when things are really busy and events going down there you're G to be parking many blocks no I don't I don't disagree but I think it's trying to figure out what can we do to help resolve some of the issues now without buying any paring maybe it's maybe it's recommending Limited use parking to prohibit employees from parking there during the day in certain areas maybe it's some form of metered parking maybe it's a combination of things I don't know but I lack the expertise to make those recomend Ian my employees are not allowed to park in the front of the senior Senate period they have to park around back the problem with that parking though is it's all public parking it's first come first Ser yeah but if you're an employee there because you're talking about you know the employees and stuff I mean I'm just saying that there's only only a limited amount of space you know I I I actually you know because I mean I I drive that road 10 times a day you know and you watch you know this little old man going Sweet Southern Comfort and he's walking all the way down from last there's I don't I don't see anything that this feasibility study is going to say that we're gonna he's not going to ever have to walk that far again and it's not going to do that but it's going to give us and give the city with a series of recommendations to how to better utilize going back to what Miss Henderson was saying you know the like maybe having it where you have a trolley or something don't they do that in we did that back when we did chiaka but you know but the thing is is maybe in the study they can say okay and have because you know it's not just for today it's for the future as well and and so getting ready for that and this can they can project out in the future okay we're not going to we don't need it today but we don't need to wake up more towards you morning and say oh no we've got to have this I think come back say that you need meter I hear you truck and and by time you get this somebody going to come in and buy the land available land available so the park over there on so we know what Joe how Joe feels good evening naen bacon um I have listened to the meeting and we we've talked about an Amphitheater uh we've talked about the Veterans Memorial we're talking about uh two bit BS two buildings that could be turned into businesses there is as Dr Henderson said we have to look forward and that is what a consultant can help us do I know that there's a bitterness about the cost of it but this is a broader picture than just having employees park down the street we're talking about our city growing the Consultants have the ability to take take a look at what our future brings us and not only and this this really meets into the mission of CRA as far as preserving the historic value of our community so I I I encourage you to think about bringing in outside expertise when we need it it's not just a matter of what works for us right now thank you it's a cost associated with doing business I mean in today's world this is how things work have you utilized our master plan at all the $95,000 master plan I mean I I see your point does it tell you what to do no okay there's one page that tells us what to do in a in a way and we and we we it takes a lot of meetings to get and I'm not being critical to anybody here but that I have to tell my joke it's somewhat on myself I was sitting in the city council listening to them and they were talking about a piece of property they wanted to sell and so I stand up and say hang on to it you we need that as a parking lot you know and oh that piece of property is too valuable I'd already sat down and I couldn't stand up and speak again but I wanted to go make it a pay parking lot you need revenue streams you talk about that all the time exactly jokes on me we can start out with a small parking lot have Meed parking and then I can pay for the parking study in a few years and I can tell you some of these businesses struggle to get employees now you're going to tell your employee that they've got to park three blocks away and walk to work I I can say in 100 degree heat I don't I don't want to park and walk work so where are they going to park so this is so what is this consultant at $46,000 gonna tell you that's gonna make that any different that's why I wanted to table this so that I can read through this and see what they've done correct and and I would encourage each of you to look at those references that have in there make contact with those individuals and see what they have to say I know based on what I received very favorable and it could be we have to do something didn't Chris do a parking study they did can't we look over theirs and see before and afters no [Laughter] ma' it's for City well you can look at what they did I think I think we just all need to ride to crestf and see what happened from you know 1985 to now and do the same thing it's just confusing I I I will read it you know well and it's looking at comparable and then checking on what was what did they have before and to what the improvements are now if you only have so much space you only have so I'm always going to be walking a mile to get to the Walmart front door no matter what I do unless I go at 10 o'clock at night or 6 in the morning well let let me share this analogy good it it's kind of like using Google to self diagnose your medical condition it's not quite that bad yes you can go to Google and get yes you can look at some book and make a recommendation but there comes a point where you need to go see a doctor and and you're not paying the doctor um you know to tell you what you want to hear you're paying the doctor corre based on his professional or her professional qualifications and experience so that's how I see this parking study yes we can try we can you know take little small bites at it here and there we can tell employees to park a block away we we can hope and pray that one day a parcel of land will become available that may or may not work or we can hire a consultant that will lay out a set of strategic recommendations that we all can consider to help not only resolve the problem now but for the future to come with all of the things that we've mentioned tonight so you feel this parking study would give us um a better guidance than our master plan did well I think there're two distinctly different things our Redevelopment plan is a very broad-based plan that gives us guidance on how to spend our money parking study is that finite plan that gets into the action of how to go about making some of these changes so it's easy to confuse the two but they are very distinctly different I will take that into consideration any other board comments if we need a motion no motion to adjourn motion to adjourn let's go on second third fourth it is 634 thank you good job you too yes I do okay sure you did fantastic very impressed Maybe