##VIDEO ID:F9r649MtSms## okay welcome everyone welcome to the town of Deerfield uh select board Board of Health sewer Commissioners meeting for October 30th 2024 at 400 p.m. this meeting is hybrid on zoom and in the main meeting room at 8 Conway Street South Deerfield Mass this meeting will be held in a hybrid fashion with the opportunity for both in-person attendance and remote participation please note that while an option for remote uh attendance and or participation is being provided as a currency to the public the meeting or hearing will not be suspended or terminated uh if technological problems interrupt the V virtual broadcast unless otherwise required by law uh members of the public with particular interest in any specific item on this agenda should make plans for inperson versus virtual attendance accordingly the meeting will be held in person in the main meeting room of the Deerfield municipal offices in accordance with Mass General Law chapter 30A anyone intending to record the meeting must identify themselves to the clerk um Blake Gilmore and provide their name and address for the record um there's a toll-free number if you'd like to call in it's um 833 548 0276 the meeting ID on uh Zoom or the meeting ID is 911 6041 1580 the pass code should you need it is 57 0012 on the town of deerfields website on our calendar you'll see this meeting post posted you can click on that link and there'll be a zoom link on the agenda for Zoom if you'd like to attend by Zoom so um meeting attendees should mute their phones uh star 6 for landlines unless asking questions or commenting all attendees should wait to speak until other participants are finished so I'll call this to order and then I'll pass over to the chair Tim hilchie to read the uh sewer rate hearing notice okay so um town of Deerfield sewer rate public hearing pursuant to sewer bylaws chapter 20 236 section 39 the Deerfield select board acting in their capacity as sewer Commissioners will hold a public hearing on Wednesday October 30 2024 at 4 P.M to set the FY 2025 sewer rates prior to its regularly scheduled meeting the commission has made available to the public its proposed operating in capital budgets and other relevant documents for fiscal year 2025 at www. Dearfield ma.us the hearing will be held in hybrid fashion with the opportunity for both in-person attendance and remote participation for purposes of in-person attendance the town of Deerfield will host the meeting in the main meeting room of the Deerfield municipal offices at 8 Conway Street South Deerfield Massachusetts 01373 options for remote particip participation have been provided as described ear earlier um and for the purposes of this uh Trevor if you agree and Blake um maybe we'll take public comment um at the end of the the hearing process sure sure during the process I agree and um and and for purposes of ease of operation I'm going to ask the vice chair Trevor to sort of run the meeting and uh recognize people as needed H happy to do so um so uh here we are each year looking at um setting the sewer rates to uh cover the operational cost of the plant for the year and then um also covers you know um loans that we have for the construction that's taken place and which is finished so everything in in uh at the South Deerfield plant has been completed and um the meeting before this we just uh signed the paperwork for the final loan uh dear Fields alone uh just just for clarity cuz it's it's been a little complicated over the last since 19 when we started the project um there are several loans for the project we've got a loan from um USDA for the large part of the project and then we uh we did uh we did more work there and uh got an additional loan um and we had a loan in a grant originally then we got a second loan uh for additional work and and then as part of that additional work the Town also uh authorized um work to be done so in that conjunction we took a loan USDA gave us some loans usda's loans were for 40 years or roughly 40 years little less than that and um um I can just explain shortly on that the um so the the loans are the first USDA loan was 8,569 th000 that's at a rate of 2 um 2 and e% for 36 years uh two two payments will have been made on this loan already um USDA loan number two was for 2 milon uh 987 and that's at 1 and 38% for 38 years um and then the town bond which we just approved is is roughly 6, 80,000 I forget the exact number I have it from the last meeting roughly that that'll um that'll be a 25-year Bond um the rate we just got approved is about 5% until 2023 then it drops to 4% and then the last two years of the loan are four four and an e%. so uh just just to give some ideas on that um and then so we look at each year we we look at the cost uh to run the plant and then the cost for um The Debt Service and then um and then you know we set a budget you know back in the back in the winter and then in Spring at annual town meeting we set a budget for the year we look at usage and uh how much revenue comes in um and then we have to adjust rates to make sure we're covering the expense of that um and then we look at any other projects that we need to have coming forward and there's always projects to do at a sewer plant but it's just a matter of when and and how um and how you want to pay for those so um today we're looking at setting a rates to cover the cost of running the plant and then we have an option to look at a couple other items which would be the pipe uh cut and replace and lining on Eastern cross and Graves which has been on the docket for about a year and a half we went out to bid on it last year but only one construction firm bid on it and it was just too much money to do we backed out of that um so we're hopefully to go back to bid in a more favorable environment get a get more bids on it and get a better rate um so that one option of the projects moving forward would be should we tackle that project and set the rates to cover the work that needs to be done there and then if everybody is aware but maybe not um when we finished the other uh plant um we found another issue leading from the plant out to the river which is the effluent pipe it's the pipe that goes out to the river and that um that failed last winter early spring um we're not sure exactly how it failed but to you know a pipe that deals with the waste um with the storm water runoff from the from the site and also uh go goes out onto the embankment and Out To The River and then there's um the pipe after the water's been treated goes out to the river two separate pipes um with the flooding and the high water we've had over the last couple years and certainly this last winter we had major flooding twice once that River went down we noticed that the pipe had um storm water pipe had eroded the embankment right over top of the effluent pipe um that was put in when the plant was built and that that pipe is broken uh right on the embankment so there's a sink hole pipes broken it no longer really leads to the river it just kind of washes out on the embankment so we have to fix that um we have gone to we've requested funding from the state revolving fund um they put the state puts money aside for projects like this each year they're a 2% note for 20 years so we've been waiting we applied under emergency and then we also applied under just regular uh funding we have not yet heard on that we should hear fairly fairly soon on it so um I don't do do we have any charts for the how we came up with this or I guess you've got that on I can pull up dpc's graphs you think that would be helpful and we've worked with um uh DPC engineering D pricket engineering uh on the plant and a lot of our projects around town for years um so each year we work with them to help us kind of look at the rates the usage they took a deep dive this year into usage and um the usage last year was was down about a million gallons um and we're not really sure why that is and and it looks like we've got old Deerfield rates coming in now we're not really sure if um that'll be a trend it looks like old Deerfield rates have kind of rebound some but we're not quite sure I think uh last year was historically low the year before that was historically high and we've had a ton of water and there's a lot of factors that go into how much you're you're treating but um so we we looked at a couple different scenarios and you'll see on the on the screen here there are um the red line is kind of the median uh what people pay if you took a a sewer bill per month it and I know you don't get billed per month you get billed twice a year but if you got paid monthly what what would your bill be um and the blue line I believe is uh FY 24 is rate um uh and so you know what that line is showing is like people who pay uh minimum don't really use much sewer there's uh several charges there's the a fee for belonging to the Sewer then there's a minimum usage charge so maybe you don't use much at all and there's just that minimum charge and then there's the rate per thousand gallons um so if you use quite a bit of water or anything over a, gallons you pay a certain rate each year um I want to say um I don't know if I can see it right in front of me the rate last year was uh $ 2094 so $20.9 for every th000 gallons of um water usage you had that went through and into the system um so to cover um costs if we really didn't do anything but to cover the amount of um drop in usage and the amount of expense that we have um we looked at several different scenarios of either changing the rate um the sewer sewer connection fee um which is just kind of everybody's basic fee uh right now it is $100 per billing cycle so $200 a year and um then the other charge is your minimum usage charge we looked at changing those figures and uh coming up with a certain rate so if we did um if we kept everything the same uh obviously last year's was 2094 the AL uh one option was to keep everything the same the rate would go to 2445 then we looked at because a lot of our cost now that we have got the project done is fixed cost uh we looked at raising the um service fee charge which hasn't really been adjusted for a long time and then adjusting our um minimum usage charge so we looked at several different ones like changing the service fee to $225 and leaving the minimum usage rate the same uh that would give a the same rate of 2094 then we we I think we really I'd like to settle on hybrid three which was uh upping the service rate to 150 so increasing the minimum increasing the service charge $50 each billing cycle so $100 for the year so it be $150 each billing cycle and then increasing the minimum charge to $100 instead of $80 and that would um that would bring the rate to $23 uh per thousand so um so that that gives us a kind of a a baseline to look at we looked at several other things we actually looked at a couple other couple other items as well but kind of settled on these three um and then we look at Capital after that so on top of the 23 rate if we wanted to tackle any capital projects um would be alternate 3B which would be you know keeping the the charges I just mentioned but tackling the eastern and cross and Graves sewer project that would bring the rate to 2385 so would increase 85 cents per thousand um gallons used and that would tackle that project for this year the other option would be to tackle um the engineering cost for that affluent pipe and that would bring the rate to 26 28 and we kind of felt um it's a I think it's a little premature to go that route and I'll see what the other Commissioners feel but uh I felt like whatever work that we're going to need to do on that plant we're not going to get hit in this year for for billing so um I think we can hold off for the Year this my two cents I think we can hold off on uh funding that through the rates this uh this rate cycle and see what our usage works out over the next year um and find and see what we have for retained earnings and maybe we can tackle some of it we wouldn't have to raise the rate as much just really kind of look at it a year from now or uh as we start building our budgets throughout the winter and into spring um look at when we would Finance it we'll have more information from srf funding um we have a better idea on what the what the total project would be and um kind of tackle that at that point but the the eastern and cross has been hanging on we didn't pay forever because we were afraid we were going to have to take a lot of that but we ended up realizing we could line most of the pipes on Eastern and cross I mean Eastern and Graves and still so that allowed us to pave everybody anybody who lives on that road knows it it got paid paved just recently and redid the sidewalk so I think it's important to do that that way we can finish out uh cross and get that paved you know next year um but uh so just that's I don't I'd be happy to hear from the other members as well and see what they have for thoughts or add to the discussion and then happy to answer any questions ler my my thoughts on this were the fact that uh not try to that that pipe that's coming out of the sewer plant we try to see if we can come up with an alternative within the next year to figure out how to pay for that and if there are different uh programs out there through the state that we can uh maybe Muckle on to give us some time to actually go out and look at that type of thing Eastern Avenue and uh Grave Street again not going to add a lot to the usage fee um and at least that way that would be out of the way this year and that wouldn't be added that would be gone and then we would be worried about the uh that pipe at the at the sewer plant itself um and I think the other thing is is that as as this next year goes by we've got to look and see what other projects that we're going to have to project further out so that we start to you know uh take care of some of these problem areas but that we don't do them all at once that we've got it spread out over time uh so I was I I agree with the fact that we should do the Eastern Avenue project this year and uh and take that uh the uh pipe that's going into the river and hold off on that one it's a a hefty price that we're going to have to come up with to replace that pipe whereas the the uh Eastern a project isn't quite is it is not that uh expensive so I I agree with Trevor on that one so um just to clarify Trevor I thought you were you were in favor of perhaps going with alt 3A and when we find out the actual bids for Eastern and Andross or Eastern engraves I guess it's eastern Andross yeah y um that then we would work that into the next the next year rate considerations but I just wanted to clarify was what I heard it I I've been struggling a little waffling on that a little bit I was hoping you know maybe to try and Tackle yes definitely I felt like 3A all 3A was the base bid um that we would do and then I thought may you know we should really discuss at at the meeting and and hear from people um you know residents and all what you know it's it's their sewer system as well so you know how how we want how they want us to to take care of it so um yeah so I'm I'm open to not doing it this year and kind of waiting to see uh as we build our budget through the winter you know and then tackle it again in in the fall again when we do set rates next year to cover the cost um we have time so we can do it either way and it won't it's not going to really affect too much but at some point you know everything costs money the longer you wait so yep um so a couple of thoughts I had is that um new Pro or Orel however you want to refer to them um they should be opening their facility and starting Productions soon and that will probably bring a burst of water usage I don't know how much um Al also sunny days the Cannabis growing facility on uh route five is going to probably begin operations next year so they will also be contributing something to this uh uh budget in usage fees and and um service fee uh so my only thought about I think 3A or 3B is is logical um my thought about 3D is I guess if we if we went that route and we found out that uh the money anticipated to be raised by the extra 85 cents is insufficient U once we actually go out to bid on the project um whether it's fy2 or FY 26 that money could be you know in a retained area so that um we could use it to you know offset the total cost of the project so y um yeah I think you're probably right till let's hear from some people in the audience and see what their thoughts are that'd be great I also just I guess to to tag on to the retained earning so um your sewer system is run on um an Enterprise fund which means that um any overages you know kind of stay in that fund uh each year it's voted at at town meeting and then sometimes we use retain earnings to help pay for the budget we try not to and that's generally it's it's like using free cash to run operations and we you know we try not to do that we've done it over the last few years because um either you know project was in flux or um you know just trying to keep the rates as low as you could and um but um we've been trying to peel away from that and we need to keep um you know because of the loans we have with the government we we need to keep a certain amount in in retained earnings so um again it's like free cash in a in one specific project so um in this Enterprise fund so we uh last year we used some retain earnings uh this year we didn't I I think we used a smaller amount for FY 24 but I I think we were planning not to use any for fy2 so that was another reason it kind of affects uh the rate the rates you know at 23 um if we use some retained earnings it would drop a little bit but again it's kind of like free using free cash to run your plant and that's probably not a good idea as a budget goes even though we do it in town a lot trying to get away from it um but yeah I'd love to open it up to the community and see people have for questions you're if you have questions want to come up just come to the come to the front state your name um you know where you live and just so people online can hear and the mics are open at the table so anyone's welcome to come and have have a talk and let's try to keep it to a reasonable amount of time so that everyone gets an opportunity to speak yep yep welcome Jack my name is Peter I live at 50 Shugo Street I have bunch of questions for you okay like number one What's the total cost of that renovation down there total cost of the renovation was 2,690 631 and can you give me a better breakdown of the USDA loans yes USDA loan number one is 8,569 th000 at 2 and e% okay for 36 years USDA loan 2 is 2,9 87,000 987 th000 that's a 1 and 38% for 38 years so that's $10 million worth uh a little over it's a it's more like 3 plus 11 12 yeah and then the town bond is 6 million 8 I want to say 880,000 but that's not right it's very it's very close to that we just voted it so and you said that initial rate is 5% how long's that bond for that bonds for 25 years and that is uh one second here I got it it's um yeah 6 million $80,000 $130 um that's for 25 years and it's 5% until 2020 2033 in which it at 2020 at 2033 it changes to 4% and it's 4% until 2047 and the last two years uh 48 and 49 are 4 and an e%. okay another question I got is the town just passed a bylaw saying that the users have to pay 100% initially when we talked a couple of years ago and when this thing was going on I said what's the status and why should we support this thing mhm and at that time I was told that anything that's already been funded or voted on is all going under the old rate correct so how much is a town paying for their 25% great question so each U of so for the USDA loans the town pays $1,122 every year and and then for the uh that's our the town's 25% of the loan payment yeah um and then for uh for the town loan that we we just signed off the first year is high because it's got two years of interest uh so it's 100 uh the town would pay 162,000 um and so in in say FY 27 it would be about 119,000 a year the town's portion of that of that debt service so town is paying 25% yes and will till all of those loans are done okay now another question I got is initially we were told that if we supported this thing the new proposal it would help in negotiating a plant up an old deerfi M what's the current status on that well we've kind of so da funded a uh uh an um da on their own dime funded a study to look at a ways to kind of rehab that plant yeah and they had worked with Ty and bond and Rh white to come up with a a a project that was going to use an MBR which is like a a membrane um to to filter the effluent that comes into the plant um talking with our engineers and just thinking about that it the problem with a with a membrane system instead of um clarifiers that have time to retain when you have floods like last winter any other anyone's been around Deerfield for a little bit we've been under a ton of water except for the last few months um there's no way to hold that like there it's got to go through that membrane or it gets bypassed right to the river and uh there's no retention area so we were concerned just knowing Deerfield and knowing how much water we get um we were concerned so we kind of we didn't uh agree to that program um and they they were you know da just understood they were like hey we just want to look at all the Alternatives you know we we've looked at Alternatives of turning into a pump station and pumping it down here unfortunately that's Millions $30 million and it just without state or federal income ites doesn't make sense um so the main problems at that plant are electrical for one cuz a lot of the electrical is old from the 70s and you can't get it anymore so we're we're developing a plan with concepts of a plan to uh to start working on the electrical there and we can even build electrical offsite bring it in um we have real issues there because of the flood plane there's not a lot of places above the 100-year flood plane there so it's not like you can do a big project like we did down there without digging a big hole somewhere to take take the other water up so um so we have plans to start tackling that and da is definitely a huge partner in this and they will they will participate I have have no doubt they they've mentioned it to me many of times that they want to be a helpful partner in this we just need to come up with a with the right policy and the plan and uh Blake's looking to kind of get a sewer committee together again here to kind of tackle that end of the project but that's one of the things that I had was that uh I was on the sewer study committee before you were Y and I quit and the reason I quit was because we came out with recommendations to the selectman and the selectman just says no way it's not going to happen disagree with you on that well let's put it this way back at the time that we had the discussions we were looking about charging rates which are commensurate with people and what they use yes like for example edus yep edus yeah equalized Y and that's what we want to do and we recommended that and they just says nope it's not going to happen well the reason we uh just to get off a side subject here real quick uh the reason uh we did not jump into the edu is because it using an edu formula in Old Deerfield or anywhere really hits the the minimal user the most so other entities can afford whatever it is small uh single family homes with you know one lady still in the home and not a lot of usage pays an exorbitant amount so the the issue is finding that balance between protecting our residents that are still up there paying taxes and on the system and uh making it affordable for them and also fair to everybody else so it's really finding that balance and edus was very difficult to try and get that to work but I think it's a a subject we should bring up again with the committee and and really hash it out well I think you have to do that because when you look at the fact that this goes back probably 50 60 years when we had a school here we turned around built the elementary school 50% had to go up to Old Deerfield so we had to build a half the size in Old Deerfield we followed that process for years and years and years at the time we turned around had the plant built last I knew the plant plant was rated for 1 million gallons mhm it was derated to 850,000 because Voxer pickle okay now when Oxford pickle went out that should have been a million gallon plant but somehow the paperwork says it's only 850,000 to me I don't know who screwed up where but if the original design was a million it still should be a million it it can it can hand just to for clarity for everyone it can handle more it's rated for eight uh 85 or 850,000 gallons a year u a day um if we brought it to a million it it it drives a lot more costs and upgrades that we would have to do if we say it's a million so it can handle more it certainly handled a ton million4 million without a problem the problem is that you can run that plant way over you can but until you get to 90 days after 90 days that's the cut off period yes after 90 days you have to start planning for a new plant because you can't handle it right exactly main thing is to make sure your flows go down for at least one day and then start a new another 90day cycle yeah there's ways uh but yeah based on this thing that you have here M what is the average bill going to be for the average user in South thefield yeah so the uh the I if you want to bring that chart up again it has the um uh I want to say it was uh where's three all 3 C is it 98 no that wasn't it was uh alternate Al 3A is 89 so from $75 to $89 per month so times six right 90 time 12 that's a th000 and that includes the interest and principal payment it includes yeah that's that's everything for to for for the yearly budget yep so $9 time 6 is 9654 that's a $540 bill for the average bill yes yep and some are obviously much higher some are lower I know I know I got a good friend that has a bill it's over $1,000 every six months yeah so depending on water usage mhm my concern is I want to make sure that this thing is fair and reasonable and I want to make sure that the town is paying their 25% I'm happy to hear that they are yep because I didn't want to keep trying to pursue and no thank you Chase a ghost out there I just want to make sure this is fair thank you sure thank you Trevor I'd just like to clarify something please um when we Chang the sewer bylaw um to allow uh we said that the town it used to say the town would pay at least 25% and now it says the town will pay no more than 25% and since the voters decide if we decide that when we working on the old aill plant that the town should contribute to that then we would bring it to the voters and the voters would say yes or no right and if they say no we also have the alternative of being able to make charges to the users there to pay the cost directly as yeah betters yep betterment charges correct so um we have a funding mechanism that we may or may not not ever use but um I just wanted to clarify that for people yeah thank you that's a good point any other questions anybody has welcome hello hi there H lowski Stage Road I am not a sewer user but this is new for me to learn about this because it affects our whole town yes how is a user Define is it a household is it a business how is it defined it's a user is just the connection so uh anybody that lives on a street that has sewer in front of their house and is connected is a user I think we have roughly 9800 and something users in in both areas of town but yeah so you're a user you you'd pay a Ser a sewer rate and fee and get a sewer bill if you are connected to the sewer system only okay so if you have multi-units at your site corre you you are one user correct but it but it's charged based on the usage so if you have multiple units there they're flushing 15 toilets and taking 15 showers obviously your usage is the same as somebody that's just got one you know you have a lot more usage than person who just takes one shower but you're paying one service fee that's correct that's correct versus two houses that are paying two service fees if you have a Family Y you're paying one uh unless there's yeah unless there's two connections to the pipe correct right yep okay that just doesn't quite seem fair yeah so well it's something to look at as far as those edus because a lot of so the edus are like should we if you have four bedrooms you charge this much or if you have a you know if you have a a multif family there's a different fee structure it's something to look at how we fund our system and should you know instead of based on water uses cuz water usage is tricky too you know it's like you're you're assuming you're getting the right number and you know and some of it go you know most all of it goes down the drain but you water your flowers and that's why we have the rebate program and stuff for for people during the summer months but yeah it's it's It's tricky to kind of get it all right exactly okay um I don't speak sewer so what is edu oh edu is equalized uh dwelling unit so it's a it's a way that certain towns and cities fund their sewers some do based on water usage some do it based on E uh edu or equalized um dwelling unit so one dwelling unit might be a bedroom one-bedroom house um and a a three edus is a three-bedroom home something like that so we or three bath home you know we have three entities into it so it's something to look at it's just when you do that you are what we found in the studies is that you're really hitting the senior citizen on a fixed income because the values are just um the value of an edu needs to be much larger than possibly just their minimum sewer users you know senior citizen one woman living in the house or one man living in a house just you know very minimal usage um their edu rate would be much higher if we just took 900 units and split it okay here's our $2 million budget we split it evenly out so usage is a little fairer uh cuz people kind of can control their usage versus they can't control the use rate yep um how much is in retain Tings currently oh uh I don't know if I have that right at the top but I can get it for you um on the sheet yeah I think it's on the sheet here Trevor 299,000 yes thank you I don't have9 oh yes yep yep well that no that was usage where am I oh here it is yes retained earnings as of June 30th is yeah $1,299 and9 and that's money that would be available for projects or things that need to occur that emergencies that might come up so generally the rule of fund with like a town or any entity is that you should keep one year's operating expenses uh in retained earnings it's hard to do that because we'd be sitting on $2 million but generally our and I think the the the 13 um 1,300 is a is a okay number because a lot of our a lot of our cost right now is Debt Service so just looking at the base operation cost of the plant more like it's always been around a million two or so a million 3 to operate both plants so um just we we're we're carrying a lot of debt service on that on those plants at the moment so yeah okay yep it's it rolls in next year and just kind of like is a part of our budget yep what is the bid figure that came in for Eastern Graves that was too high I want to say it was uh do you recall off the top of your head I want to say it would like we were thinking it was going to be 200,000 it was like 400,000 it was almost double what what we had kind of budgeted and uh it was I think Mass West bit it and they were like the only ones and they're like was going to put a number on if they catch they catch and we just didn't catch we didn't we pulled I Trevor I thought it was higher than that it could be it it definitely could I thought it was in the 500 range yeah thank you I know it was a lot more than we expected okay and and how about for the pipe leading out to South sherfield yeah so the the pipe right now um so it a little tricky to answer but generally I think it was I think they put a rough back back of the napkin Budget on about two million um two to two and a half million and the reason that seems like a lot is that what we want to tackle when we do this project is to take the storm water pipes and combine them with the effluent pipe out to the river so that uh we don't have pipes washing out the embankment and destroying the the new pipe and that two when the when the river is really high we can turn on our pumps and force the water and the storm water from the plant right out to the river so we have a lot more control over the the effluent out to the plant so it's really redesigning the flow of the storm water into that new pipe and then doing the head wall in the in the river and a lot of the cost is the permitting with uh Army Core engineer and we've got to Dam the river and we've got salmon and sturgeon and any other thing that's crawling around there so that's the I think the pering is what cost the most to do all that and anytime you do work underwater near the water the Edge that type of thing everything doubles on that with as far as construction goes we were looking at at that aspect of it as well so I I I didn't understand why the cost was so high either so I was asking questions on that and now again we're back to the you know you have to make sure you preserve the the wildlife and the vegetation and everything else that's in that area when you're when you're working in there y um so just get going back to that service fee and the connection um so I guess the elephant in the room question is how many service fees does Deerfield Academy pay they have one but again it's based on well I shouldn't say one because they have multiple buildings so any H any uh building that's hooked up any house they own that's hooked up so there's multiple if you look at their the sewer user fees whole page of them will be Deerfield Academy cuz or Eagle broke b whatever they all have uh multiple units that hook into it so it depends on how many individual buildings are hooked up to the pipe so I I I I could get you that number but it's it's it's probably 50 or 30 or something so one dormatory that could have like lots of bathrooms lots of kids that one one feet of the pipe but their usage is yeah through the compared to a three family home that pays the same amount yes for a for a connection fee yes but their usage is just dramatically I understand but separate there is there definitely is with the edu but it just then it hits that one person with the family it's just that much higher but yeah we'll look at that and look at many ways to split the split the you again this is this was confusing to me and it's still a little confusing to me as far as the way this goes so this is why I suggested that we do put a sewer committee back together that can study these different items that need to be worked on I mean we've got a ton of septic people in town here that are wanting to use the facilities I've got some different answers on that end of it that make sense to me but I still think that there might be other options that we can work on for for them as well yeah so that's you know I think this is moving forward we need to we need to get some answers that again that the select board can't just go out and handle every part of it whereas they've got somebody that will come into to us and we'll talk to us about the different findings that they've come up with and uh hopefully we again we can try to get these costs down as well as getting uh more usage out of the facility itself yeah and the other thing I think uh T Tim had brought up and maybe Blake too is is looking at the structure of the sewer committee as well and um just happens to be whoever runs is either on it or not on it and we all three happen to not be on the system and we looked at maybe we should pull pull in into two members from the community that are interested maybe they're on a sewer study committee or something or have an interest in it um that we'd maybe make a five member board so we had some weighin from users and non-users um yeah it's only seems fair definitely a balance yeah um and I do appreciate the fact that with having a a sewer study group um we can look at something for the septic users because I think all of us were anticipating some support with this new new plant and we're hearing no now and uh so okay yep thank you sounds good thank you for questions great questions Trevor I just want to thank you mention that the the service fee is the smallest component it's like 10% of the total money raised so um for the to finance the the cost of this project So currently I think it brings in less than 200,000 a year yeah the user fees service fees and the bulk of it is use usage yeah so thank you Mr Decker you need my name and everything else I'll be glad to tell it I think you got to pull that down a little closer to you and talk welcome Bob from kellerer Drive okay uh what is a connection fee for newpro and is it included in the uh revenues on the sheet and is the other thing is newpro going to use any of the water for processing of their stuff or is just a bunch of toilets and a couple uh sinks and maybe a a slop sink for wash the floors I don't I don't have a great knowledge of their operations in the building I know there's not many there's just few offices and to they're a blast a plastic sheeting company so think they're going to use a ton I think they may be using it for coolant Cooling and some of the other aspects of it but I have not gone over and actually talked to them about their their actual procedures they're actually working out of the uh the old plastic shop now in Deerfield plus they've got a facility in weightly that they're running um at this point too so I'm not sure what each one of them is and how much of that's going to be moved into the new building so they're operating out of the plastic shop in Deerfield they've got some stuff in there I don't know if it's just re shipping or whatever it is but I know that they're using one of the buildings over there that's interesting because I think I read the deed when it was sold and no one's supposed to put any plastic business in there it might be just shipping but that I could have read it wrong right and it could be just all right they're shipping stuff out or receiving stuff we don't think that there's going to be an extensive amount of usage if it's just toilet and slop sinks and that sort of thing if they're not going to use any water in the process we're not going to get a massive amount of Revenue there no okay that was when want establish no now we don't have an educational rate we don't have a commercial rate we don't have a senior rate and we don't have a plain residential rate and we probably should have that because it would reflect basically the cost of service a little bit better than putting it all in a res the residences are picking up most of the cost at this point the next thing is on your 2024 revenue and fees you estimated that you were going to have uh 2 million uh you anticipated more Revenue than you got and it was down roughly $350,000 from the prior now is any of that attribute to the delay in bildings and uh we we're I don't believe so there was a time it is hard to get so we base it on the but but I but I thought I recalled some of the Billings went late and and I just don't they were but I think they um okay just but I think most of it is is usage was down Okay so we're going to I don't want to keep you going for hours but the next thing down in the expenses for 25 you have The Debt Service of $837,500 reimbursement because it existed prior to the change in the bylaw and the the Enterprise fund am I correct or am I wrong I'm not sure your question again I mean that's the deice I want to what I'm looking for Trevor is now when you're coming up with your new budget you you you've got user fees and you're saying it's 2, 39,000 you're saying retained earnings which is the money we've already paid in that you're going to use and you you're in figure you're going to have $5,000 in investment inome but you're not showing any of the 25% that you the town should be kicking in to pay for the uh I think you're for The Debt Service I think you're missing that so the so this this is the budget that was set at town meeting like last year you realize that but but the thing is what what you have to do is the town owes a percentage of The Debt Service anyway you agree to that you don't agree on the operation part correct but but but the on The Debt Service the town's supposed to be kicking up 25% of the cost you got $837,000 there now some of it may have incurred after the change at tell meeting the change doesn't have anything to do with it though it's going to be 25 it was 25 it's still 25 so what I'm saying is you need 22 $29,000 roughly uh to offset that cost should be coming in in the revenues so that that's not all being charged to the rate payers okay well I think that it's coming out of the you know our our 25% is is it it's coming out of the general fund no you got to turn around and reduce the 637 I think you're looking you got buy the 25% you can't get it both ways you come talk to Brenda about it I don't I think you're you're missing one section there I don't I don't think so but I could be love to help you I could I yes go ahead I agree that you know these answers could be better given by Brenda but yeah the town took a a a $6 million loan right so is that part of this situation where that represents $6 million loan is being paid by the rate payers that's what I'm trying to get at Mr El it's by the rate payers and the town the town but then it has to be a separate appropriation or the revenues have to be come in here we'll take it offline and talk and make sure you're you're you're covered I think I think Brenda I trust her in her numbers I trust her too but I just want to make sure that you understand it now on Eastern Avenue Extension which way does a stuff flow does it flow to Grave Street or does it flow to Eastern Avenue you got me I don't know well I I don't know what the what it is I mean there's five or six houses there if I remember there's five or six houses and there was one on one end and a couple on the other end and Fred Callahan's house and then the uh then Bobby Callahan's house I don't know which way they flow and Albert adamsky had a house on and then there's another house there but I'm trying to figure out does it well I'm just wondering if if we're if what the pitch is and which way it goes does it go both ways or what have you and are we replacing the structures or we just going to replace the pipe that is failed we're lining the pipes on the places that we've on the places we've paved already the rest I think the rest of it's going to be cut and replaced and then we're going to do a um conservation wants us to change the covert on Cross as well kind of the runoff that comes off the mountain and then goes into that kind of dry ditch which is sometimes most of the time Wet um the town has an easement on that ditch all the Corin property down next to the fire station y okay yep and but I don't know there is an E I believe from uh cross street all the way down there is that goes back to about 1950 or somewhere in that vintage yes but I think I think they want us to change that covert on cross and I'm just not sure if the I think the sewer is below that but are we going to have to change the structures or or is it just going to be plastic pip no some some of it is structures well like the culverts uh manholes that kind of thing I I I don't have the exact uh bid with me today but I can get you that um the next thing was the uh on the one going into the uh River uh I remember spending a night hauling and fill in when the sewer plant was being flooded yeah and the water was backing up that pipe remembers that into into the drain y that big holding area and we filled it with we covered it with plastic and with sand on it so it wouldn't come then we filled next to the next to the chain link fence and save the plan at night yep but the question is you want to turn around and just have one pipe going into the river and and what size would that be would it be 8 Ines 10 in 15 oh it's probably more like 15 or something yeah cuz it it would take all the drainage plus the affluent pipe that goes I think the pipe that went out something like this the the little clay pipe I don't know it's 18 or some some odd inches it was fairly big uh but so if it's going to take that and the and the storm water as well I mean there'll be different pipes as it connects into the that one manhole and then we can hook up big Bera pump to it to get it out to the river if it you know if you need it at some point but uh I just think that we're spending an awful lot of money and I I question the fact that the engineers didn't come up with that as part of the whole major project well we didn't need to I mean it wasn't part of the I mean like we could have done sludge handling we could do so much more at that plant it's not like we're done and the whole plan and every bit of operation is complete there there's still a lot of stuff that takes place in a sewer plant um so there you know it's not like I don't want people to understand like every aspect of that sewer plant is completely fixed it it really is in a great condition we have the headworks we have secondary clarifier we have backups new pumps different airation like a lot and and the um we're not using chlorine anymore we use the UV for for treating um but the sludge handling is another like we didn't touch the Sledge handling and how we separate that and that's a huge you don't have a press that's working at this point is that what you're saying oh what's that a press to press the sludge we no we don't press the sludge uh but we um we press all the junk that comes down the pipe like that the head works that gets dump so we're keeping all that stuff out of the stream of the plant now that used to just run right through so there's a huge Improvement there but there are other aspects that could get improved there and sledg handling is one of them um it's the most expensive part is I sign every bills every two weeks they're like 20,000 just to take the truck ship that it goes to low now it's the only one that takes it Turner used to take it from not any longer anyway I I just I pay sewer bills in the neighborhood of $3,000 on my personal residence yes okay and no matter what we do it we can't really save money on it with the number of people we have and people wanting to take showers but I'm going to tell you there's going to be an awful lot of more mellow yellow when you're going to be paying almost 5 cents a gallon yeah and uh yeah people can't take that it's hard it's it's sustainable and uh you're going to see people uh you know trying to figure out other ways of doing it and uh it's uh I agree I I think that one your computations don't reflect the the town's contribution for the direct costs aren't factored into your rate setting and what of you and I would suggest you freeze your rates for this year come back with a complete presentation with everything spelled out I think it's what all right thanks for your thanks for your advice is I don't think I don't think this is a true picture because you don't have the offset of the town's responsibility you're clipping us for all the debt service in my opinion I could be wrong I think you're wrong but that's okay that's fine I could be wrong well we'll we'll get to the bottom it for you I wish Brenda was here she had to run out I thank you for your time and your patience no I appreciate your questions we always learn from you but we we've got it on the record now yes we do all right it is recorded thank you welcome sir welcome hi John Cunningham from gaki just a conceptual question how does raising the service fee by 50% and the user fee by 15% be a benefit to the low users uh so we we it's not a benefit like everybody like it seems like they're subsidizing the higher users no I think that what the what the engineers felt when they looked at the study is that a lot of our cost to run the plan each year not run the plan is is uh fixed cost at the moment and everybody should share in that so whether you're use it or not so I think the idea was to was to raise it modestly uh $50 uh a billing cycle $50 yeah I know but you it can be 50% on a small number right but uh yeah we felt like it was important to everybody have a buy in at it uh and then um yes it definitely it it's it's it's more significant for a single person who's on a fixed income for sure a lower usage person is paying relatively more than a higher usage person well I'm just trying to clarify that in my mind yeah okay that's all I wanted to all right yeah thanks for your question appreciate it come on up you I have a problem what he just said sure because I'm a low low usage person y um and um I've had this problem with the the water department for years I pay maybe 8 every cycle for water I'm not using and now I'm seeing the same thing happen again with the sewer with going up by by um I'm going to use his term of 50% um and now I hear you talking about edus and it you know it's bad enough I pay for sewer connection but okay we're all paying the same for a sewer connection and to compare it with Deerfield Academy um a dorm well okay they have a sewer connection just like me but at least they're paying for all the water those dorm users use where I'm paying for the water I use and when you're talking about edus if I pay for the number of bedrooms I have I'm subsidizing everybody else well I don't know if you're subsidizing but yes I that was our main concern for not going with an edu yeah because at least the academy is paying for all their water yep um whereas um if you put the edus in I'm I'm paying for people who aren I'm paying for the ghosts who I think we I think we felt with the reason like everybody is paying into the cost of this upgrade and if if we didn't raise any of the sewer fee or minimum usage you would pay the same rate you did last year well everybody else is is paying for the project right so you you wouldn't have an increase in your bill uh so we felt like have the increased per thousand gallons right if if if you're like minimum users who don't use a thousand a year like we have customers that just you know they don't use that so there are a minimum user there it's a just a connection fee and the minimum use fee they don't ever go over that so that in the six-month period so um so we felt it was fair that everybody have a little I want to say skin in the game but everybody paid a portion of that initial base fee and then the users who use more obviously pay more okay see I used about 9,000 gallons the last time on my bill okay and by my calculations a minimum user would use 3,000 gallons is there actually somebody in town yeah there's there's a few very few that are on the minimum yeah but there are actually people who use that little m not many but yeah okay I Trevor yeah go ahead Tim Trevor I just wanted to say I think that um I asked this question of um DPC and they said that there were 25 or 26 people people who only pay the minimum use charge so the rest of people use more than the minimum so I think there's like 969 hookups yeah and so 25 people or units pay the minimum charge yeah okay thank you okay I I find that hard to Envision I don't have a pool I don't water my lawn I don't have a garden that I water so I don't use a lot of water and I cannot Envision somebody using like 3,000 Gall but my other question is all this difficulty with the uh the plant and the ulence wasn't that something could have that could have been foreseen no it's buried in the ground so you don't know until the plant I mean you you can figure like it was put in in the 70s and it's going to come up at some point so we could have made the project 25 million and done it then but we didn't want to do it if it didn't need it and then it it's only with this flooding that kind of showed where the water coming out of the storm water eroded the embankment then got down to the plant uh pipe and then it just failed it's Clay pipe So eventually it'll fail anyways but it's just a matter of when you do it we weren't going to do it if it didn't need it but of course timing is Murphy's Law as soon as you get done with the project guess what shows up okay yep and again I think that that's one of the things that we were we want to look at to see about the financing of trying to get that pipe fixed and uh again with having a a committee that can actually start working on some of these these projects and problems and maybe help us out with the financing of the uh the sewer plant and to help with the old Deerfield plant as well so I think this is something that you know again as interested people in the town if we got people that have some knowledge and some expertise in this that we can uh tap into I think that would be huge oh yes please come on up Charlene yeah yeah welcome charlon glinsky River Road um just again I like to be clear on things the salaries and wages are almost half a million dollars how many employees does that involve and I assume this is both the South and the old Deerfield plant it is yeah one one team runs both plants so how many employees are in Deerfield South Deerfield and then they run both plants so it's one team will go back and forth there's not somebody standing there all the time in Old Deerfield because it's doesn't need it they're there every day but they're not there like 24 hours a day that kind of thing so um so it's four employees I want to say it's four uh yeah we have a we have a chief operator and then we have uh Gary is uh on and then there I think there are two or three others I can get that number for you but I I don't have it off the top of my head I want to say it's at least four could be five but I think it's four can you share with us how much the chief operating person receives for a salary sure yeah they have a contract and I can get that for you I don't have it off the top of my head but yeah okay so it's probably well over 100 something thousand I think it's about 100 I think it's just around 100 yeah okay um and then the pipe that the $2 million golden pipe exactly Golden Goose Platinum it's Platinum oh Platinum yeah um that pipe it it has problems now MH do those problem are those problems um allowing something to happen with our environment there I mean where is that stuff going if it's a broken it's clear water right there's nothing uh like contaminates or anything like you can drink the water um because we've treated it not that I really would but you can um can we bottle it and sell it well no I don't think anybody will buy it um so it's just water that goes out to the river right now and the problem is is that it's broken right on the embankment so there's a big sink hole and it's just like coming out of the end of the pipe that's broken and just eating away the embankment so you know obviously D wants it fixed we need it fixed it needs to go out into the river and disperse at a head wall but it it's not like it's not like sewages weep seeping into something or anything like that yeah it's just the thing is charl once they fix the pipe it's going to be the same water going out into the river instead of going from the embankment into the river so it's basically it's it's it's clean water as far as D is concerned but eventually we'd like to connect the storm water and that together so that we don't have this issue the so your the board is feeling comfortable that waiting to fix this isn't going to be an issue a bigger Financial issue for no I mean unless D sees this meeting or some reason and says like look here here's your letter you must fix this in the next 30 days I'm they've been wonderful and given us time to search for funding come up with a plan um it's not again it's not um an environmental problem at all uh as far as sewage because it's clean water it's just a matter of we don't want it eroding the embankment and it it doesn't rise to the level of an emergency situation if it was a pipe coming into the plant toal different story okay yep and then um my next to the last question if you go with the first proposal which is the $23 y on the, gallons and you go that looks like a 99.8% increase for for the sewer users we had an 11.1% increase last year so in in two years you're asking sewer users to come up with 20% more money to pay to flush that damn toilet what's heartbreaking is they just looking back at the stuff from 2018 the rates were like 10 I mean it was just but then if you go with the next one we're talking almost 25% so yeah the percentages on smaller numbers are yes they look dramatic and it is more it's a lot of money to fix this stuff but it's you know um it's expensive to to to manage expensive infrastructure and we have to do it um so it you know we try to find the most economical way to do this by getting USDA loans stretching loans out 40 years trying to kind of manage this stuff and it's expensive to find users to to manage this stuff you know we're lucky we have an incredible um wastewater operator right now Erica does an incredible job he his guys are uh I mean for a sewer plant they're spotless I mean he really takes care of these uh Investments for the community he knows how valuable they are his team is great but it's hard to find users that are in this industry um they robed from town to town to town it's um luckily he's been working with kids at the tech school bringing kids training them getting them up up to speed um and they're really making a making a career out of it and if you look at um a lot of the other towns it's very hard to find people right now well and I know you know only because it's a small town and you get to uh learn about different people in their positions and I know there are at least two people in the town of Deerfield who are expert Engineers they're they're not technicians they're Engineers with a wonderful background and and I I sure hope uh they get considered for the sewer committee because wouldn't it be wonderful to have free consultation advice from um residents who are affected or maybe you know maybe they're not sewer users but the the bottom line is we have people in town that we should tap into resources especially where you're talking about you know the the users continually having to pay and you know it's not this isn't a single singular issue for taxpayers we have the library loan coming due we you know we have these new initiatives possibly the the housing for the seniors it keeps adding up and we are not a large town of taxpayers and I think that's where the there is a fear and I I I I really use that word cautiously because you can't just keep hitting taxpayers and saying it's you'll be able to do it and I mean comment that it's only $50 more for $50 is only half a year so we're talking $100 $100 more a year so but you look at the cost of running of doing your own sewer system like at your at your house you're talking $340,000 right to put in the initial system right correct or even to replace your system mine's old I know it's probably 30 years I'm going to have to do that soon um it's expensive and so we're trying to find that balance between and it's expensive to run a town and you know so the alternative is to not do anything like let it ride but things get and that's the issue with this plant it was a whole lot less 15 years ago when we looked at doing the plant but each year it gets held off and held off and held off because people don't want to spend money on it which I get it's a struggle it's just when it gets forced on you like this was it's expensive so we try to find that balance but I I also know that you know for years there were years when I just because I we went to a lot of town meetings where there was a nice reserve of money and for whatever reason over the last whatever number of years that Reserve kept getting eaten away and when you lose your little rainy day fund money then you do have to come to the taxpayers so we need to get back to figuring out how to put a savings and I think I think with this and what you're getting at I think again and starting with some some some new blood some committees some people that can come forward to give us some new initiatives on different projects not just the sewer itself that would help us with the maintenance of these infrastructures that we have to maintain and maybe a better way of doing them being creative with State funding and even even with um you know the the nonprofits in town and that sort of thing that could could help us out in the long run so we just need to be able to what's going on here but in a a better setting with committees that can actually put their thoughts together and maybe go out and you've got connections you just told me have connections tonight of the for the sewer committee and I mean we've got other people in town that hopefully will step forward and help us with some of the other projects that are going on that can help us and maybe cut down on the funding that's that's that we're looking at in the future so that we at least can cut it down we're not going to eliminate you know any of this but at least get it done at a you know a better price and the same quality that we need to get when we're doing these projects because you know you've everybody has told me that you know there's other things that are coming up school buildings and the rest of it we need to be we need to be coming forward and actually start looking at these projects because the reason why those funds got eaten away was because they didn't do anything for you know major projects to try to get these these buildings up to speed they just kept maintaining them and they would get by by maybe just fixing whatever that particular problem was and not coming forward and saying well this is how we fix it so it doesn't happen again and that's the thing that I'm looking at as I'm going through this again this is brand new to me very brand new I'm still learning on all of these aspects and um the different uh agencies that can help us with this you know I've I had a meeting with do today with Trevor and I mean there's things that they can do to help us out we're trying to work those those different agencies as well and it it just takes it takes the village I guess is the the coin term to get everybody involved in this so that we can move forward and hopefully get a get a handle on the taxes and get a handle on what we're spending and that sort of thing so and I I I do hope you know and and I think it can be done I I believe in people and I feel that if we really try as hard as we can to work with the nonprofits to help us out and I just learned this weekend um there are about 30 people on the Board of Trustees at Deerfield Academy well one of them is a Deerfield resident too um oh too I Ben CL Ben Clark was one but then who was the second one the other one is was at the yeah ke no he's I don't think he a trustee no he's not a trustee you can see the list on on you can go on the he was at the meeting the day wouldn't that be wonderful to work with him yeah and see if he can help us uh have the Board of Trustees understand how important it is for the town of Deerfield to be looked at um financi eventually as a needy town right now and I I just feel that connection can be made and now that we have at least one or possibly two on that Board of Trustees that's that's a plus for us as a as a town so and we look into it the thing is you you can strike Partnerships you can get those things right and it's not just with the nonprofits again with the assistant Town Administrator I was talking to Treehouse today about some of the things that they could to help the town out as well and they were amiable to it I mean they didn't come forward and tell me they were going to do certain things but we gave them suggestions and they're going to take it back to their bosses so I mean those are the things that we need to do we need to not just look at one aspect of but try to get try to get a broad scope on everything that we're doing in town and see what people can do to help us out glad to hear that thank you thank you any other questions on the sewer because we got to wrap up the hearing get we did but that's fine it's good it's great great to have people in the audience and talk about these issues um any any other questions from anybody if not I will entertain a motion to adjourn the hearing and then we can deliberate I'll make a motion to close the hearing thank you second all those in favor Blake Gilmore I Trevor MC Daniel I Tim LG great well those are great comments um and good discussion I um what what's your thoughts I I me I'm I'm open to hold on the two capital projects until later in the year and we discuss it through budget season and and Tackle them next season and just go with the basic rate right now it's not going to be the end of the world um it's just I I was hoping to get one part of it out of the way but I don't you know again we don't have a solid number uh bid on that Easter and cross but it's not like we can't move forward in then and then deal with the you know go out to bid later so I'm happy to hold just at the basic weate at the moment for now or I don't know what's your guys thoughts I'm in agreement with that we should hold and just go with what we we have here and then get a little more information on Eastern a as well as the uh the pipe what do you think Tim um we're talking about the alt 3A yes which is the 23 per th000 that's correct um basically I think that any project done Eastern and cross is not going to be done until next year and we'll actually know the cost then y um you know basically we're not we're not raising rates because we want to earn money we're raising rates to pay the service debt on this project correct so you know it's it's a cost that we know we know now what the loans are going to cost so that's a great thing rates should moderate without unless we have big issues that come up correct so I agree I think that we should stay with 3A I I think so too yeah so I'll entertain a motion for a sewer rate in structure is that me sure and that would be that would be setting of the um that would be fee yeah service fee which is 150 and the minimum usage which is 100 and the rate at 23 per th000 okay so I make a motion that we uh uh set the rate for the proposed service fee at 150 the proposed minimum usage charge per B anual billing period by 100 and then proposed fiscal 2025 sewer usage charge per 1,000 Galls at $23 do I hear a second second okay thank you any further discussion all those in favor Blake Gilmore I Trevor McDaniel I Tim I okay thank you very much we'll sign this um and then you could sign when you're back Tim and we'll turn it into um to Sarah y I'll be back on Monday okay great thank you so much uh and Bob Decker wants his bill by Thursday oh yeah well we don't have your reading yet you want last year's reading um any uh any other Mr chairman yes sir can you have somebody look into the offsets and have the revenue uh from the town's portion of the 25% uh reflected in the revenues so that it will in the future that'll be reflected and not be a question reduce the reduce the rate by that $200,000 I I'll look at that for sure I'll talk to Brenda about it and we'll get it on the I think it's her mistake this came from your illustrious Engineers no a agreed but with with in with input from from Brenda and I and everybody else the problem is if you don't ask the right question you don't get the right answer all right I appreciate that comment very much um any other business before the board entertain a motion to adjourn I move we adjourn second thank you all those in favor Blake Gilmore I Trevor McDaniel I Tim Hil I thank you so much Tim thanks for staying up so late I know people think it's early but it's very late for you go to dinner go to dinner have