##VIDEO ID:4QO6Dsr8uu4## provisions of the open public meetings act notice of this meeting was transmitted to 100 Democrat times of Trenton The Star Ledger on December 29 2023 posted on the township website the M Municipal Building bulletin board and F with the township for law p uh please rise for unedited States of America [Music] indivisible thank you here mayor W here okay we have a couple sets of meeting minutes to approve so the first set is June 10th 2024 regular meeting minutes and executive session uh minutes approv and hold uh like you get a motion in a second for those minutes any someone other than yes you were here for the June 10th Jun thank you uh any comments okay hearing none uh all those in favor to move the minutes I I extensions okay thank you uh we'll move forward with the uh July 8th 2024 regular meeting minutes uh to approve and executive session minutes approve and hold uh Davis is the one on thday if we could get a uh first and a second please to move the me minutes minutes okay any comments on the meeting minutes okay I'm hearing none all those in favor I I and exstension yes thank you Dave okay we're going to uh if I could have a motion to open to public comment and the this will be on agenda item only if you can please keep this to 3 minutes uh per person uh and if you coulde go to the podium and then state your name uh once called upon uh so if I motion thank you all those in favor I okay open for public comment sir Chuck cine resident uh my question is on resolution 24-18 I would like someone to please here now or when the resolutions are approved to explain that in more detail and even why it's even me the legislation is being presented I'll pull that for discussion thank you any other public comments [Music] Wallace project is massive and comes with a very big price on the entire Township I think decision to go forward with the bond should go to the voters before that I would like to see a public hearing um postponed until September when folks are not on vacation when the public concerns and comments can be heard Inc and adjusts made to thank you sir sir my name is way Fleming I'm a Air Force man I have lived here for over 50 years I knew Sarah DS she with two houses over from me she wanted this park for the children only not for pickle ball or not for any Improvement such as for adults hey you got to understand we don't want to be an IOU to borrow money to make the park look beautiful for 360 some kids and none of them show up okay you know we have a high school that has a lot of this uh uh Sports field athletic fields give it a break you know this is a community that loves their wide open spaces you guys prove it because of the land that you own Delaware township owns a lot of land and you're not getting any taxes from it are you no that is why please understand we' love Delaware Township to be reserved and preserved thank you very much amen thank you any other public comments sir I just had a question is there going to be sorry is there going to be another opportunity to to speak during the public hearing of the ordinance would you rather that we hold our comments and go it's up to you this is your your time to speak so you can speak now you coms okay fair enough don't know name I'm here to agree with you I feel that there's so many people in this town who are not aware what's going on a lot of people don't go to the website they're not left they don't know they don't know they don't they don't know what's going so I'm here to urge you not to vote I'm here to urge you to vote referendum after everyone has information because I we get we get a postcard in the mail you know Township exp about the rep commission event think about it but we don't get a postcard in the mail telling us we're about to go to bond for2 million plus and I think we really should have that I think everyone should have like that gentleman said there were so many people in this town whove been here for years and years but they're not involved not because they don't want because they have lives that are really busy so I think if people were aware of what's going on they want to have a say and I think that's the only fair way um I think what You' done is good but I think that I think that maybe people should have a I really urge you not to vote tonight please pleas for and to make it also very clear about what we know maybe if we get any more negative maybe they consider amendments focus on as she as Andrea said it's it's a lot of money and I know I know what the per annual increase for to be but still another addition on everything people should beware pop the V please and to have thank you sorry uh Ro by cour Farm I just want to concur with the two women who are saying that this should be postponed um I'm not a cynical person but the fact that you deferred the meeting from July the 12th to August the 12th um if I was a cynical person I'd say perhaps you were advised to do that so that we didn't you didn't get the out the turnout that you're getting tonight but even if you're getting a turnout here there's 4,700 residents in this C you're burdening them with this decision so I think the is President Dave and Sue remember other big issues that have been raised around election times have been either put on the referendum when you wanted to take money out of the preservation uh conservation money or when we were looking about U Down zoning pushing the decision until after the election so that you can the public can be able to let there all 4,700 of them their opinion be Hur so if you make if if since I'm not cynical I'll just I just accept that you made a very poor decision to have this meeting tonight and I concur with the two women who said postpone it and consider a referendum if you can't get your head around that push the decision to the other side of the election because you're making a decision that we're all going to be voting on and that's not right in the middle of August thank you m [Music] I also want to make the argument that this should be on the referendum and I want to amplify what said it was never Sarah's intention to have the hand of that you're designing and I also agree that this is not the most obvious time to get the Public's input on the vote we plan to take tonight also I want to point out that we don't only love our Open Spaces we love living in a community with farmers and teachers and people who will be hurt by raising taxes there is no excuse for raising taxes in this town to create a park such as you've designed thank you ma' I concur with all the above so I don't want to repeat all of that um use up my time um I wanted to go through um ordinance 20242 and understand if that ordinance it says providing various Capital Improvements in and by the debt toship of Delaware does that include for the authorization of 323,000 change bonds is that part of D par what do you mean what is various Capital Improvements in uh these are for public roads okay and then the resolution 24147 authorizing submission of Pon County Municipal Park and Recreation Grant application so is that safe to say that the application has it been submitted yet and this is author authorizing us to submit that particular application for for what amount uh I think the max award is 100,000 150,000 so would that possibly reduce the coordinance Bond why not why are we voting now why can't we wait until the grant is um approved because sometimes these uh award the award procedures take sometimes a significant amount of time that's why we put into the financials that were distributed to the committee members assuming that those awards were not granted so it's sort of the worst case scenario so the first 10 years that we've lived in Delaware Township our taxes have gone up $1,000 10 $1,010 which isn't that bad mhm however the past two years it's gone up $922 which is a significant increase current all Delaware Township uh residents pay for municipal open space and County open space through our real estate taxes for us my husband and I that equates to more than $560 a year and I'm very happy to do that but I think enough is enough it's time to stop incurring more debt and start being more responsible and I don't mean that as a as a negative to anybody here but I think as a homeowner I would love to complete all of our home Improv projects and property Improvement projects at once but we have had to phase our projects out over many many years because we couldn't afford to curve more debt I think the same should go for the tox sh thank you anybody else sir can I if you can withhold unless it's if it's in respect to this particular ordinance I ask that you defer until we actually open for public meeting for that because we've already have your opportuni is that I is that the subject matter I didn't have a full three minutes I'll give you extra time on the other end uh is this in respect to the ordinance uh that yes okay so uh if you could please wait until I open it for public comment during the ordinance period okay thank you I I I appreciate it anybody else okay uh seeing none if we could close public hearing please or make a motion all those in favor I okay let's move forward with uh Township committee lates on reports Mr bow yeah so I attended the rec commission meeting this past month uh just kind of following up on some of the items from the last meeting just want to say thank you to Diane for working with Diana to pull together a preferred vendor list that we'll be able to now hand over to re others I think it's a good idea secondly the the one open item is the U request for the surv green survey that's under review Once that's under review we'll make it available to uh to wck and as well so that we'll keep that on the radar until ready to release that in terms of just new items um I think everybody knows that the community day and the fireworks are coming up September the 7th uh the park will be open from 3:00 to 10: p.m uh the Garden State fireworks vendor the same vendor that we've used for years that's been approved resolution um the only thing we're waiting on is just to confirm the uh the permits so I think things are moving forward there uh DTA will be selling food there and also there'll be some local vendors so that's the uh Community Day in fireworks there's also a spook tacular um being planned for the month of October October the 19th what i' asked in our last meeting is that these guys just provide a list of events so that we can just give an idea of what events they're looking to hold at this spectacular that way we can review it make sure that we're all thank you anything further Mrs Blackwood looking through here I guess probably the most important thing which is also on the list of the resolutions that are going to be approved um and the consent agenda is that the um open space um committee met and um kind of at the request of our um we voted on um basically using the um land conservation folks for at least one year to see how that goes as the open space coordinator since the year was going and we still had no coordinator so we did follow up Diane um and uh Ros Westlake and I actually met with the folks from the Land Conservancy to make sure that what it was we were expecting and what they were and were not expecting from us um and we had the um resolution on the consent agenda to basically sign contract with them to see how it goes appr so um because again there a concern you know we are collecting money in our open space trust and we need to be using that and you can't do that if you don't have a coordinator just don't have the resources um that is actually on the agenda it is yes uh somewhere around here why again so do you want to have a poll for further discussion no I'm I'm with I'm just making sure that everyone knows it's on the consent agenda and and with the with the blessing of the open space commit and sube that and d a long time well we'll see how we'll see how it goes and we're hopeful that it'll be a positive because we can't function without a coordinator so and so I'm going to be honest I don't like we introduced this particular coordinator to the open space group 6 months ago and we went full circle here we are we wasted 6 months of opportunity to spend $1.5 million that's sitting in the open space trust is doing nothing for the residents well can I point out that had the committee not done what it did last year we would have saved money on the coordinator because this coordinator was costing us more than the coordinator we initi which which coordinator was that the one that the previous mayor scuttled after it was all set up so so I don't want to hear about wasting money cuz we're spending more money but that's okay we need to do it and I'm for it at this point but but the reason it took that long is because we had an opportunity which we squandered and now it's costing us a lot more money but more money so as I said so don't telling me that we could have done it before so anyway so I'm happy with it we need to do something and this is the only option we have currently and it's not a terrible option a that um the only other thing I can say is unfortunately I have had conflicts with the um mua I had a conflict this month and I have a conflict next month so I don't know me you know anyone wants to sit in way I kind of feel bad because I don't need that many meetings I haven't missed any before but I I had to miss August SE I probably so yeah you said for August or September September it's theth I have work evening work I thank all set that's good great thank you okay uh I just have a couple things I want to report on uh Sergeant Ellis who is our office of emergency management officer and I will be meeting with jcpnl on August 29th uh the representative has um stated that they actually have some infrastructure improvements planned for our area I don't know what the scope uh I do not know the locations I don't know how much money they're willing to spend uh but the good news is there are infrastructure improvements uh so I will know more at the meeting on obviously after uh August 29th and I'll report them back at the next Township meeting after after that meeting um I'll also make sure that I uh alert them to the problem roads that have been apparent throughout most of the outages that we've occurred uh for the past year I've noticed a you know certain roads that are always running out of always losing power so I'll make sure I identify those to jcpnl I'm sure they already know them as well but I want them to be aware that we have recurring issues there and our residents are are getting frustrated a bit so we'll see how far that takes us uh post office construction uh little update it's delayed again uh so unfortunately uh they had mentioned to us in the past they were going to start in April then it became May then it became July and obviously each of those time periods has passed us um the good news is uh we did or we were in receipt of course respondents from uh the post office that basically said because they're a federal agency they're not subject to permitting and inspection fees by the township so that's a good sign they're starting to plan ahead and save some money so uh I'm hopeful that this is the start of whatever process is in place at the post's office as an agency to actually get going and ripping down walls and whatnot at at the post office so uh as I get more information on it I'll be sure to share it with the folks here at the meetings and online um finally uh voting location changes will be made for two of the districts here in the township and has been done because of feedback associated with the primary elections was not positive apparently there wasn't enough room it was too noisy it was too hot um so the county and the election board has decided the best course of action would be to take two of our five districts move them to another location that is undis is undisclosed at this particular important time so I can't even tell you where you're going and what districts they are uh but the people that are affected will be receiving something in the mail from the election commission from the county stating where you need to go um and obviously when the township learns of the information I will make sure that we share them uh through the township website through these meetings put it online on the newslet we're hoping we can get that information the newslet hasn't gone yet and that's usually right on the front page so we have it set up on the front page um fortunately we didn't go yet so we can we can add that information we're hoping in the next4 hours thank you okay uh as soon as uh Diana as soon as you get anything if you could let us know we'll be able to disseminate it to you folks and obviously if you have any questions you know how to reach us you know how to reach Diana uh please do so if there's any confusion where you're going to vote for the general election uh that's all I have uh Mr V do you have any comments no Mr Von okay thank you okay uh administrator report Diane okay I only have three things um construction department has HED a newal okay to replace Chris Rose retire name is Dan um started last week contractor very happy to have him on board works in other um neighboring municipalities and so we're happy about that um you'll see a resolution um har great addition to our team um last thing I was just going to talk about the the resolution for the huning County minicipal Park and Recreation grant program um kind of touch on that 150 to 50 to 15,000 um we will have to contribute 25% and du and we're still being infastructure that okay that's thank you DPW report Mr swash all right we responded to 14 down trees in town trim back trees around several street signs drove through town two times picking up rush along the roadway and gr dishes completed roadside mowing for the second time this year removed the bus huts and destroyed the areas located on sutt Farm Road and Mason Farm Road uh dug out a path at the Village Green over here replaced it with DGA and stone dust Clean Catch space and tops throughout the town water the trees on Lower Creek Road and the plants located at the police station where SA referers to uh make it look nicer Robert groy helped us out with that which is really nice and a great contribution to the town I think yes uh we reset the we o Trail sign on Route 29 that fell over we placed several speed signs in town uh completed Paving on Gran Road uh regraded all the stone roads as well as the firehouse parking lot in bills Park Salt cut the parking lot out here we're going to be doing a drink job in the parking lot pave the section of lower Creek Road and started Paving sides of roads with the asphal on the sides of the road I also want to thank uh Mike Gis for your of service to retire two weeks ago 25 24 years here um want to grow Landscaping also for help out the police station uh we pick weeds help us plant some plants put new stone down mul things like that and also I want to congratulate um Harry on become permanent status here in town he's been a great addition to the town and look forward to work with him in the future fantastic thank you appreciate it okay all right we'll move on to ordinances what everyone's here for um uh so the first one is ordinance 20242 this Bond ordinance providing for various Capital Improvements in and by the township of Delaware in the county of hund in New Jersey appropriating $460,500 therefore and authorizing na of $323 $260 worth of bonds and Note and or notes of the township that Finance part of the cost thereof um if I could have a motion to thank you uh comment I I'll just lead off by saying this particular ordinance is for drainage issues on Mason Farm Road apparently we got a back a backup of water that refuses to drain it then becomes a skating Rank and unfortunately cars that drive on it can easily slide off the road if any Resident walks on it they can easily slip back their head Etc it's it's it's a liability uh the second portion of this is for Raven Rock Road uh continuing improvements there uh this is phase two I believe this is still phase one uh there is a phase two that's sometime down the road uh but this is a continuation thereof uh for a lot of drainage issues there as well so um any other comments from committee members okay hearing none if I could set public hearing on oh I'm sorry have a roll call please David B yes Chad yes sus yes Joseph yes mayor yes okay set public hearing is what's our next meeting date thank you okay ordinance 202 24-11 bot ordinance approving the improvements to dils Farm Park in and in and by the township of Delaware in the county of hun New Jersey appropriating 2,4,6 thereof and authorizing the issuance of 1,951 882 of bonds and or notes of the township that Finance to cost their uh if I could get a motion for a public hearing please second okay all those in favor okay uh any additional comments sir yes sir again my name is Bill Fleming I'm 78 years old and you know this money can be spent for senior citizens in housing okay instead of the park because the park Sarah dels wanted for the children to keep it simple all right now we have wild animals in there the uh game game warden goes in there and checks it all out but also we have to understand how important are our senior citizen I'm a Vietnam veteran what did you do for me nothing I don't see any senior housing there but then you take the housing that these old people want and you push them to another County you send them out of the area where they grew up they love and they nourished so therefore I challenge you to fix a a crosswalk on the lamberville headquarters road to uh I'll just say Sho uh excuses property there is no crosswalk for or sign that says children are going on a school bus there is nothing there you know you're talking about millions of dollars but let's face it it's all about the children all right let them play that's what the schools are for they've got the parks they've got the tracks they've got the football fields they've got the soccer fields how many more do you need to satisfy 360 some children that only go to this here Delaware Township school I had 365 people graduating me in 1964 when I was in high school so please be aware of the budget because they're spending money and the interest rate is going up we're in for a I want to tell you we're in for trouble ahead because Prosperity is not going to be as good as you think it might be so please please understand thank you County for your uh it took me 5 years to get that handicap sign over there across the street okay thank you five years different mayors and it is for me to say it's not only for me it's for other people senior citizens through are handicapped please I know you're going to be making some improvements by the store there are you not MH yes each and every one of you are responsible for making these improvements you've got the gentleman right there for the township who was working there great idea but you know what there's no crosswalk right there from the store to the end okay there's no and there's no crosswalk I'm sorry uh from the end to the other places which you take children walking into the firehouse understood all right thank you sir thank you for your time appreciate it yes yes sir um is it open for yes Sten wber president um just a little unclear now um we're in the third year now since the referend W funds um for that can be used for the open space Park um how much money is currently available you know between that some of the grants from wre you know I'm assuming there's some sort of interest in curred on the money that hasn't been spent yet like we at so we have uh we have $240,000 of a open space funds on hand that were collected through the uh referendum we have $18,000 in Elite W Grant that is accounted for and we have the uh letter of award for that we also have $140,000 of County open space funds that are awarded and uh set aside for this particular project so we're basically half a million dollars in money available to contribute towards yes which would go against that $500,000 or I'm sorry the 2 million yes um so then I'm a little confused that why are we talking about financing 95% of a job that we can we're not financing 95% job we're financing 34 for 1.95 million is $100,000 short of the total of the estimate well it it's different because some of this is paying for the interest on the notes only not for the entire principal amount but what we can do is I can defer to our financial advisor I don't want to get into the okay that level of detail because I have other questions but I just it seems like we're asking for more money than we need to do the work based on what's in the reserves right now for the for no yeah no no we're not asking for any more like this is the actual ordinance has a cap of $1.9 million on so so and uh there was a a post on the sville neighbors um which estimated that the additional cost tax cost would be $18 for a $450,000 assessment for the average yes is that that's based on all the numbers you just gave that is based on and based on what you're asking for yes um and then of course there's potentially another $250,000 in grants available through H County and for infrastructure the park so that money is just going to geted in to phase two no that would be utilized to offset some of the monies that we would need to borrow or pay off existing pay off part of that exactly because you know looking at the 2024 budget I mean the town right now is carrying a debt of 7,782 781 uh that's our debt service this year is $578,000 in change that's 15 cents of every Municipal tax we pay is going to pay debt service yes and now with another plus million we're going to be well north of 10 million which means next year we're going to have over $750,000 in debt Sur but if you look at where the township sits respect respective to our debt ratio we are one of the lowest debt ratio towns in in New Jersey but as my wife said earlier our taxes have gone up 4 and a half times more without any of this in the last two years than it did in the previous 10 years and we're guaranteeing it's going to go up that much more moving forward so well unfortunately a lot of that is out of our control because that's all health care costs and benefit costs well no but it's entirely within your control because we don't have to spend another $2 million on improvement tool okay I think there's no one in this room right now that would probably argue that the plan that was proposed you know it's will greatly improve you know the organization of the park certainly the safy you know the parking and and kids running across the streets you know it's going to make it much more accessible for people than it is right now and you know it's going to replace obsolute infrastructure but like we all do when we have to deal with issues with our own homes you know you can't do a whole house renovation when you don't have the funds to support it okay thank you any other comments sir Town resident uh I'm going to speak to the positives and say that this is a long time coming and a vote Yes tonight would be great for the kids in Mar Town talking about the kids we are in our highest numbers I've run baseball for DTI I'm on board for DTI we're at our highest numbers since before covid we host events at the park 26 out of 52 weeks a year our park is dated the infrastructure is bad anytime you drive through there you can see a kid almost getting hit by a car because lines aren't clearly defined so in terms of getting this done it should have done years ago we're not 8 flying at the park um and another 18 my taxes is well worth it for our kids a thank you thank you sir good evening my name is Joe Wy I'm a resident lamber um some of my questions have been have been answered um I wanted to ask about tax implications and I believe Mar you mentioned that in at the first reading was it $18 for average house per year or per there there's a lot of variables obviously that do on that but that's our our estimate is $18 to $20 uh based upon uh the current interest rate which we suspect is going to go down because but we're we're assuming that interest rates are going to stay currently where they are is that per per quarter or per year that's per year year on the median household in delor Township which has an assessment of $450,000 understood another question um there are there administrative costs that have not been included in monies uh uh being requested in the bond for example there's a mention of bond counil that may be needed at some point for the issuance of Bonds are there other administrative costs that have to be paid for outside of the cost of it would be Bond councel but we wouldn't necessarily be going to bond I think we're probably going to if we did move forward with this at least in the beginning roll notes because notes get reset on an interest rate basis annually and being that the trajectory of interest rate policy by the Federal Reserve is downwards uh I wouldn't fully Finance for 10 years right now this as much you wouldn't go out and buy a car uh and ask for a long-term financing at these interest rates you know other words there's going to be reducing them so you do the the financing that off affords you the reductions annually so and those do not have any sort of ancillary cost uh whereas if we went the bond route we would have to go get the bond rating reassured which does have a cost okay all right um another this is another another question and I do have a recommendation I don't disagree by the way with the the idea that we don't have to do this now having heard everybody I'm I'm in agreement with a lot of the people that maybe it should be a referend at the very least it should be postponed and get work foro public inut but that goes back to one other question I'm just curious have the Committees of the Township that have the most concern about Parks and Recreation IE the park the open space and Recreation both the recreation and open space committies been briefed on the proposed uh plan I know they are aware the plan that the bond or I'm sorry have they have the Committees that cognizant committees been briefed on bond Orin are they aware of the plan and who our committee the no the committee the subcommittee of the Town recreation and open space yes wck knows well wck knows but literally we didn't feel compelled I mean we're the financial arm of the township so really it's worldwise understand from from yeah okay um I I do have one suggestion I'm not opposed to the the overall uh and if you choose to vote on it tonight my recommendation is that you include uh if you can amend the ordinance hopefully without going back and reopening the hearing to include a phase a two phase approach in the first phase you would appropriate I sell the notes to cover the planning and design and get the detailed cost estimates you would then be able to go to the Committees the r committee and the open space other committees get public input on the detail Plan before proceeding with the full financing of the project that way is it everything is defined no what we don't have to worry tonight about do you really need uh a $350,000 um facility restroom or whatever is in in the estimate it hasn't been designed and you may have enough money and the estimate you may not have enough money so do not embarrass yourself if you go through planning and design nail all this down get more public by amending the ordinance to to provide that process I think everything would be a thank you sir yeah excuse my name is Jeff bar the budget that I saw indicated you were building three paddle ball courts yes sir are you building any pickle ball courts pickle ball I'm sorry says says b it's pickle ball all right and do you have a a detailed bit for uh your tennis Sports we have uh an estimate 250,000 for tennis and basketball separate facili I believe that's what it is I I don't have a bre down in front of me let's see here 280,000 28 that's what the bids well not the bits didn't this is an estimate of by the engineer as to what those bits should come in at approximately has he ever uh built the tennis facility I would hope so I want to that sure I'm actually building a pickle ball facility right now in white town so tennis facility not tennis pickle I said tennis I play I played tennis my whole lifee okay sir good evening everyone Brian saloi 44e resident of Delaware Township Mr Fleming thank you for your service to the country uh you kind of kind of touched on a point right Sarah dils built the park for the children yes correct what about the safety and health of the children is that is that you think that was in her mind when she gave the park or did did you think that she wants this piece of land that we're not going to maintain and make it unsafe for the children to play it is up to the people who are conducting the recreation to provide the safety so I'm one of those people I sit on cou of recreation right and the park is way an created right when I was there as a kid it looks exactly the same right actually it's probably more dangerous right for our residents I'm there every day dude almost every day right I see it okay excuse me I didn't mean to prefer you as dude we need to spend the money on fixing this park we don't need to add all these czy things but we just need to make it safe and we need to worry about the health of not only our residents and our guests who visit the park because I don't want to get a call or Jess will get that call now that the bathroom's not working because it hasn't been updated for 50 freaking years right it's disgusting I travel this state for lacrosse soccer baseball I've been all over the state actually been out of state right and I go to some private facilities like Diamond Nation but I go to mostly public parks and by far and this has nothing to do with Justin he's doing a great job over there our park is worse than a prison the bathrooms are disgusting right the entrances are tight so any visitor there if they're not paying attention they can drive off the road or crash into one of our kids and then what we get sued for millions of dollars then what who has to pay for this us all right correct correct me if I'm wrong you're right right so we need to we need to finally buck up right Co threw a ren of this thing we probably would have got this done sooner if Co didn't happen but it happened right Steve we were talking about this 2018 2019 and we brought it brought it up to you guys and then C derailed it but here we are let's move forward finally right before my kids graduate high school right they're going next year well two of them are going next year then I got two more and thank you for all your taxpayer dollars for my four kids in school but my point is I'm for this project enough is enough already let's do it it doesn't have to cost $2 million have you been to the grocery store things cost on the cheaper end of things sir yeah anybody else yeah sorry uh actually M galdi I had a question on the utility reconfiguration specifically the sewer when we have the money to build a new restroom as was just said eloquently probably um by the previous fellow we need a bathroom but what about the actual underground there was a couple meetings ago Susan I think you said you didn't know if it was a cesspool or a septic what's under there and is that part of the the funding to make that all that waste be environmentally cool I'm going to defer to on that sure yeah we actually looked into that the septic system that's on site is functional but it does need to be uh revised and updated so that's going to be part of the design process is replacing the the restroom facility the building that's there with a new pre-engineered building that has more modern and durable restrooms and also evaluating and reconstruction Port reconstructing portions of the septic system to make sure that we can manage the flows that we're experiencing so it is part of the septic is going to be it's going to be part of it cor that's all I have thank you and I also want to say there's no sense of entitlement just because you've been here for 44 years thank you Jan Weber Delaware Township resident so tonight is about whether we move forward with the funding for the park tonight is not about what amenities the park is going to contain it's not about making it safe for our children it's about the park it's about burden on us as taxpayers the burden on future Generations as taxpayers but to be fair park is there and we have a responsibility to Main maintain it the question is are we going to maintain the park or are we going to there's a difference between maintaining and making improvements that are appropriate to a rural SLS suburban community in Hunting County we are not Milburn we're not Short Hills we don't need custom tile in the bathrooms and we don't need um manicured perfect Playing Fields so we're not embarrassed in front of other parents we need something that will maintain the park and something that is appropriate dollarwise for our budgets okay so tonight is a go or no go decision correct okay thank you you're welcome sir [Music] uh my name is Roger Harris I live on Cover Bridge Road um been here at 35 years and uh raised two children they both went to uh DTS and members of dtaa um enjoyed many wonderful times at Dills Park a lot of laughs a lot of great times and I think it's a wonderful asset I'm sure that when Realtors show houses in Delaware Township they make sure the potential buyers know about DS Park it's it's a wonderful thing um but I'll also say that um as a a retiree um and a taxpayer I'm concerned about $2 million I think it's a lot of money for2 M $2 million you can get a lot of stuff and stuff requires to be maintained and maintenance cost money so it's not just the 2 million it's also going to be further maintenance going forward um today I spent a little time on the web and I looked at the census data for Delaware Township and going back to the year 2000 until now so about 25 years it's basically stagnant it's gone up a little bit down a little bit but there was one thing that caught my eye it said the the median age of the population and in the year 2000 the median age was 42 years old and in the year 2010 it was 49 years years old in the year 2020 it was 56 years old so it's gone up 7 years that's the median age so if you carry that forward in another 6 years it's probably going to be 61 I don't know how many 61 year olds use basketballs and uh snack shacks and so on but um that's not to say that we shouldn't maintain it like the the woman who spoke just before me I feel very strongly that we should I just think that we should we should limit it clely um the other thing that supports the the same thing about the population sir if you don't mind could I just interact on that last point you made if you don't have the facilities to attract young families to come to the township they're not going to come and the reason that you might see the the census sort of travel to towards the upper age bands is because young families aren't attracted in coming here well they they can't certain aspect ra taxes excuse me I'm talking thank you no excuse um sorry just move on move on you're talking please so anyway so you have to have something that attracts young families to come to the Township in order for the population to continue to grow here because if it doesn't then everyone's going to be left with higher and higher taxes we need more ratables in the township we cannot keep just preserving farmland or guess what everyone's taxes are going up they're going up so you need to make improvements here to to uh attract young families so anyway that was my point on that please proceed with with yours okay well yeah that there's a debate there too about whether or not Farmland preservation saves taxes or cost tax um I I don't think we're prepared to go into that I just agree with the comment that that the implication that uh the infrastructure at builts is not attracting young families I think young family drives through there say look at this it's great got basketball courts got tennis court ball fields they don't look to the B they don't go to the bathroom they drive but anyway that's need to hear me there the my point is that the the the population is aging I don't think that there's people they use uh as there used to be um so that's it basically um I I do support as the woman ahead of me said maintaining it it's a wonderful asset I just don't think the 2 million is uh I think it's Overkill and so I urge you to reject it and also consider a referendum thank you sir um I'm raising a different point R I'm reminded I didn't realize that these numbers are just uh estimates um I recall you know Dave and Sue do too when we decided to upgrade the police department and I think I'm right in remembering that we had a d was it 100% overrun on the original estimate for the police department it was it was enormous so if these numbers are just sort of estimates that you've drawn from other other projects I think we need firm budgets this is a lot of money we can't go to bed unless we have the authorization to do that this is the first step to do that we can't go hey let's make an imaginary bid if we were to able to contract you how much would it cost that's not how it works Roger we need this Bond we need this ordinance to go through in order for us to allow the engineer to go out and get act when we did that there was a similar meeting when you were talking about the police department you remember that whole Police Department we trusted you we trusted the okay it's going to be a million doll something like a million dollar being like million doll rep I mean that was a different engineering firm too okay different engineer yeah we fired point being the point being Dave and Sue and all of us have been here a long time trusted those estimates to go for the bond and a million dollars and I think I'm not wrong in saying it was like 2 million by the time the things finished so talking about increasing taxes it it's it's terrifying to make the commitments Jamie when we don't really know what we're making the commitments to and so if we can't do anything other tonight maybe J's suggestion of funding the design and planning phases and then letting everybody know we've done that we've done that Roger we've had a meeting at the pous were you there for that where we went up right so okay so you missed that um we did that we went over we planned everything we allow afforded the public the opportunity to speak about what was going into the park and we had a tremendous turnout but it's funny I look at at the crowd here I don't remember seeing men in your faces there you expect individuals and that's why about the pickle so guess what that plan is already appr okay so then put that to a referendum and then to referendum because people like me would then take the time to understand it I I can't keep up with all of the the things that you're doing because we put trust in you but when you come with a $2 million ask that is not firm it's a troubling thing so I really have request you defer it or vote it down and let's go back to the drawing board and we should have done that day with the police department really should okay thank thank you I can um before the next person speaks there were some there were some comments that from a local government contract law is inconsistent with New Jersey Law and as you indicated uh the engineer comes up with the estimates so that we can go out to B and get a bid right if a bidder responds and it's 100% over what the bid spec is by law you don't take it they're not a qualified bidder and the bid is rejected you go back to bid if it comes back over the bid specs again you reject it and at some point the engineer and I would be discussing with you about how under local contract you don't have to bid anymore you can go negotiate depending upon the situation so I I don't know anything specific about the police department but I know what was represented here is violative of New Jersey Law and I can tell you as an attorney could not have happened you would have as an operation of law you would have had to reject the bid and if there are costs overruns the engineer has to approve it and he's going to look at it and say no that's that's part of the bid specification well I didn't anticipate that the response is too bad you got to do it yeah you know so those are the types of things that go on now sometimes there are Quest overruns the contractor will go to the engineer the engineer will look at it and say that's legitimate I'm not suggesting that that a bid can never have an overrun but it it's not the private sector where you sign a contract for $200,000 and the the contract gives you a bill for 400 you have to pay doesn't work that way with taxpayer there are protections when it comes to government contracts correct certainly yeah that would be the first step you know and what what was being represented is we had a conceptual plan prepared by JD with the input of hundreds and hundreds of people at a duly advertised meeting there was so many people from Delaware Township it must been it was probably 15 times the size of people here tonight so our next our next step is as part of this um this vote we'll authorize our firm to go out perform a field survey do all the sort of nitty-gritty drainage design grading design uh addressing the traffic circulation safety elements uh handicap accessibility or uh you know making it a um a facility that's accessible to all you know all ages all abilities physical abilities and then also looking at you know some of those other Recreation yes there are basketball courts they're falling apart there are tennis courts they're falling apart tripping hazards they safety hazards the fences are falling over all of that needs to be fully reconstructed so um certainly you know I heard mention of larger municipalities more um you know uh more densely populated municipalities certainly we're not building proposing turf fields here or anything else I mean those would be I don't know maybe J tell me five times more expensive if we started putting in like artificial tur soccer baseball and everything else that's not what's happening here really the improvements to the fields we're going to have the same Fields they'll just be uh better in terms of drainage better in terms of safety better in terms of Maintenance over time so that over over time the to is not expending as many funds to renovate and repair before every season the turf fields that don't drain properly or the baseball diamonds that don't drain properly um and address those those types of long-term current maintenance costs that affect the public works and Rec uh and the dtaa to maintain those facilities so that's sort of a hidden cost savings that's not really being talked about here but that's also going to be uh come forward in terms of the costs when this goes out to bid you know certainly we're going to design the plants prepare the specs design all the detailed elevations and grades and lines and everything needs to be designed to do this then it goes out to bid that those bids are going to come before this committee if the committee decides this is you know doesn't make sense why is this so expensive then we'll have to eval interview the biders as as the attorney has indicated as JT has indicated we'll have to interview the biders find out you know what elements uh they found were more expensive than we anticipated but those these costs are all based on projects that we're currently putting out to bid this year last year and cost that we're seeing for similar projects of this type so certainly there is some it's not a wild ass I'm sorry I said as it's been a wild guess that we're taking um to to make the cost estimate that we presented to the um to the committee but certainly there is some uh rough estimating going on to get us to this point and then in the future we'll have a more detailed estimate that we will present um before it goes out the bid that we know the scale of is we should be anticipating on project so maybe I don't know if that was helpful but hopefully it will thank you any other public comments yes sir can we keep this one short you already [Music] anyone willing to give up a it doesn't do work minutes sir you said I can come you had you've already had six minutes you already had six minutes Sir Robert hey guys just all Resident um I think we've already discussed this so many times there are some things that definitely need to be done so that the children are safe we can't be having them running across the parking isn't wide enough things like those they need to be done um signage needs to be added for safety reasons for people that don't know DTS and then they're coming in and they don't know where to go um there's a couple things in here that I did want to ask about looking the budget lighting and security $32,000 we don't need lighting CU we aren't open at night so are there things like that that we that we're going to cut back on if we determine that we don't need them let's say you know if you guys if we vote tonight and you guys don't pass this what are we going to do about the tennis and basketball courts are we going to shut all address we're shutting them down they got to be shut down okay cuz that is a huge liability I know that some people think that we're just cutting The Lawns and making sure that they're manicured for the fields but anybody on dtaa can tell you that we do that because we don't want a broken angle and if you just leave those fields and we don't keep up on them the way that they need to be kept up on then we're going to get sued and then it's going to cost us a lot more money um the one reconfiguration for the baseball field they want to do that because it's cting us I don't I don't remember what the number one like $10,000 15 to 20,000 a year to do it right yeah so to fix that every single year that's what we're spending because the drainage isn't correct that's what Free Labor St yes so I was going to bring that up too like right now dtaa members the volunteers spend at least 200 to 300 hours every single year working at that Park cleaning it up so we do need that but I don't know if there going to be around here if they're not going to have fields that are going to work for them so I hope that it passes I know that it's a huge number and I know that a lot of people are freaked out by it but it's not really that big when you consider that the school is spending $600,000 just to replace the playground right now and I didn't see any of you there to talk about that not a single person was there when we had the solar vote because everyone was at this meeting talking about pickle ball and that could have actually made us $150,000 a year at that school but no one was there to support it so thank you thank you um real quick I I just wanted and then we'll get to you sir okay I just wanted to point out that I I have in my hand an ordinance that was passed in 2006 for open space that allowed the township to go out and get three .14 million in bonds for open space Acquisitions this is in 2006 there's a long time ago interest rates were about what they are today so we can't say that uh you know it was much cheaper to borrow money at that particular point in time this did not go to referendum this was passed much like we wanted to pass this this evening and we're talking about 2/3 of that amount of money um so I just wanted to make that point point that I understand 2 million is a big number but 3 million is a bigger number in 2006 than two right we already had the tax that covered that and we made sure that the amount fell within how much we were collecting and paid back our which debt which we are doing here Sue we're a majority of this is covered by tax we're already collecting there is an additional tax that's going to go to the taxpayers but I would like to reintroduce next year another referendum for maybe perhaps going from 16 of the taxes down so Jamie it's a little dis inous to say that because the 3 million back in 2006 was 3 million out of what 3 million we then built the the the police department and we bonded that we're now if we're going to be $10 million in debt we got to think about how we pay that the second thing about the open space and I know you keep wanting to take more and more away from it we lose the multiplier effect we I know we've been through this this is impertinent to this please you we not I mention it but is that on the agenda tonight it isn't I just want to understand that the multiplier effect of open school we can talk about it later we can thank you for pointing out you're going to raid it again in the future raid it in my opinion oh that goes to referendum sir so the people rated it not me the people two there was 3 to one that approved for raing your precious fund so a number of years earlier we approve that PR yeah everyone everyone realizes how ridiculous your balance in that right now is $1.5 million when are you going to spend it don't steal no no no no no $1.5 million has done nothing but sit there a coordinat for five years so if a taxpayers in this town moves here 3 years ago and then leaves this year has he seen any benefit from paying that money towards that open space fund no that's F he has it's contributed to the fund for the benefit of the T oh for the benefit up the town anyway someone else had someone else had a question that hadn't spoken previously Sir John uh just a little my thunder with the uh uh working on the playground of the school and I guess when I saw this number here I know these are all estimates if things are off by for whatever reason um underestimated overestimated and there's a budget project has to be built how do we or how do you guys uh go forward deciding what gets maybe downsized taken out not done um like where where where where does that happen because that's what I'm concerned about because just for one item you know $75,000 for the playground compared to between $5 and $600,000 for one at the school the footprints pretty similar if not bigger than the one in the school and I'm not sure install um but you know that there could be a big discrepancy there um and that that's just my only concern listen I've been here for 10 years um here in 2014 as my friend Sim sust would say I've been here for a cup of coffee okay so that's not very long compared to a lot of you guys um the park special I want this to happen I want this to go through we have to be responsible we have to figure out any unforeseen circumstances that might come up and how are we going to accommodate those and how are we going to deal with those um I know you had mentioned one thing I was going to ask but you had addressed it um Adam with the septic with the and forgive me um font that was terribly small um with the the restrooms would that be when it say it's prefab would that be kind of built into the existing refurbish SE system or would be something new or be part of a different building unfortunately I was not at the meeting where it was presented I did watch it on YouTube and you guys did a great job and I think Community response is very positive at that point um but something like that like how is that going to what are we going to do about the bathrooms and could we incorporate that into maybe a different type of building perhaps a community center like a barn or something different that might not be originally planned on on the first plan that I mean that would be something we'd have to discuss with committee change the building composition and the layout Jay can speak to that better than I could right in terms of the buildings that are proposed I know that the prefab restrooms sort of a like a concrete structure so the existing building would be demolished right and then a new building tomorrow for sure so yeah the idea is that yes we would upgrade the existing septic relocate the utilities to across the parking lot to we're moving the restroom into the center square area Park Square um so those are the those are the design particulars we put in or I put in the prefabricated uh restroom building because we found those to be most effective particularly in you know we found it be effective all over I mean 4 in of thick concrete you know so as opposed to building a stick stick building or getting an architect to build something we found that these buildings are cost effective and very durable so I mean we'll look at options I think you know the options and things that that we know from experience have worked are are the point of starting on that discussion and if I can just one one quick moment about another question um the trail itself um I know we want to upgrade that um to complient um to be I guess more of an asphalt type surface um what is that surface going to be no we're we're talking that the way that I'll be finished the way that the trail is is laid out sections of it will be done in a crush stone with binder we're trying to keep as much of the part for and so everything drains through not increase any runoff actually TR to reduce run off CL so that type of a crush Stone finder I can show pictures or whatever but right it's I just forgot when you presented that at the meeting at the firehouse I forgot exactly yeah that's an ADA accessible surface so now provided a for surface that also be accessible cool and then uh for real the last thing um I know there's parts of the park that we like go to grass that isn't farmed um I know one of the things we kicked around the depart metal commission was if there and this is very low on the the priorities for this project so if we can do anything to let it go to say um something where we can contribute um some sort of pollinator SE thing out there is that part of that I'll I'll go into that EXC right on thank you very much for look forward to see project thank you Jan hey Jan did you speak during this session already I did this is a different topic no no yeah I'm sorry Robert request this is a public hearing just send me a Facebook message or something but there's a second public comment yeah there's a second public comment later it's about the park okay so you can do it you can do it later all right thank you anybody else hey seeing none uh could I get a motion to close public hearing so move all those in favor okay all right I would like to read uh prepared comments that I have uh please don't sneer while I'm making these um and then after that's completed I would ask uh Jerry our Park planner to go ahead and kind of just do a quick run through of the park that was the plan that was previously approved at a Township committee meeting a couple months ago that was introduced at the firehouse and everyone was invited to come and provide input on didn't see a lot of your folks um so he would like to do that and then Adam's going to talk about the environmental impacts that we're trying to improve through this very very same project it's all not about new jungle gyms new ball fields it's actually other things that you folks would probably appreciate so I want you folks to listen to those and Adam's going to present those to you so uh I'll go ahead and read my comments and then I'm going to open it up to those two gentlemen and then the township committee can make their comments ask questions Etc okay it's been two two years 9 months since the park referendum was passed and passed by a 3:1 margin uh the township as you know has collected roughly $1.5 million in tax revenues associated with the open space tax during that time one6 of that is allocated to the park the following improvements have been made at the park these past three years a trail walking bridge was repaired a fire pit was installed and the Gaga Court was constructed beautiful things and guess what really stinks about all these Eagle Scouts did these projects the township had nothing to do with these so we're depending upon Eagle Scout projects to improve our park that's pretty set residents have paid for $1.5 million in open space taxes over the last three years absolutely nothing to show for it that includes Park that includes open space nothing's been done you've paid that money it sits in a bank account today is the time for this committee to deliver on the Mandate of that 2021 election referendum and pass this Capital ordinance to leverage our open space tax receipts and deliver the following improvements to our park and our taxpaying residents make the ball fields tennis and basketball courts safe for use and the roads into and around the park safe for driving and traversing on foot and that includes parents and children make the bathrooms and Snack Shack which collectively is our community center in the plan uh plus the walking trails 8 compliant for all of our residents to use make the park environmentally friendly and sustainable we're actually introducing storm water friendly preventing runoff and soil erosion technology through a series of retention and poorest walking and parking services in in the park uh we are also creating eco-friendly habitats for Native Wildlife Wildlife using pollinator Gardens the only additional amenity to the plan are the pickle ballport Parks whose costs represent 5% of the overall project budget and received overwhelmingly positiv overwhelming positivity at Park plan unveiling at the firearm no it didn't yes the excuse me I'm speaking the ordinance allows for the previously mentioned Park enhancements for the cost to the median home own owner of roughly $20 a year if all grants are awarded the committee has been transparent in our intentions and actions especially in respect to the park we have had numerous meetings and in presenting vetting And discussing the very part plan we are voting to proceed with this evening we have hired a park planner that created a long-term Vision that was provided to and met by the public with overwhelming positivity and excitement and that happened at the firehouse but you weren't there it is time for us to deliver to our residents tangible benefits of those tax dollars that they are paying into that fund therefore I encourage the committee members to vote to approve the ordinance as it stands this evening if we do not pass this ordinance I feel it will be necessary for the committee to seriously consider shutting down some areas of the park until an allart solution has been explored and approved utilizing many smaller skill projects has several disadvantages to the one for which the committee has under consideration this evening loss of efficiencies in regards to the economies of scale which are a bunch of small jobs with equipment moving in and out uh for ads hard dollar costs and materials ordered in smaller batch quantities result in higher cost per unit consistency between jobs will be at risk since a single contractor is unlikely to be available for all contracts and bids contracts awarded and paid for in the future will inherently have higher costs because of inflationary tack on effects overall project rating will be difficult to accomplish when done in a peac mill fashion and finally disruption duration at the park will be significantly greater with many smaller projects so that's my that's my position I'm opening up for the uh rest of the committee members to make their comments and or ask questions so Mr Mayor just want to Echo what you just said I appreciate the comments that not only came tonight but what has been shared for the last 3 years um I reflect back number of objective discussions that have been had relative to Firehouse or the presentation of the um initial kind of unveiling of the ideas and also being a parent and having lived and been one of those you know people that spent two to 300 hours a year volunteering for dtaa so that my children were safe I have an obligation I have a obligation and responsibility to move this forward and it's not just the children we trying to keep safe I watched my own two eyes last will test this We R the fields out to provide opportunities for the church um Le to come out PL I watched somebody come around third base and it was not the base it was the unevenness of the actual field po ailles T that's just one example there's been there's many of us I have an obligation that I'm committed to and i' be happy to pay another $20 per $400,000 to keep children safe the children are our future I respect the position that many of you have It's Our obligation and my priority should move this over thank you um I have thought long and hard about this in fact too long and too hard and um I really want to like the plan I really don't care for I think it's too much I I'm concerned for example I totally he that that one field is wet all the time we added two additional to this park which we spent good money on and then when we went to do the park plan we told the park planner he couldn't look at those sites it's very possible that one of the lots that right now is in farming might be a nice well- drained field that could have been used instead of all the drainage that's being proposed to deal with so I'm not suggesting I don't know but I will say we bought those fields with the idea to have potentially additional additional Fields out there and then I said we tied the per his hands and we told him could even consider that or look so I feel like the plan is really you know I don't know I'm not sure that it's the right plan and as much as I would like to think it's the right plan I'm not all that convinced that it is I also think V yes for it yes because I'll tell I'll repeat it again I want to like it but I don't really care for I'm sorry okay and and the other thing is the other reason I voted yes is because again we did need to get this summary of how much this stuff is going to cost and we wouldn't have done that we had to have a plan in order to be able to talk about cost or at least to start talking about cost so we couldn't have gone that far and we needed to know that but again when you get a cost list again I mean I I get your economy scale and all that but I feel the same way as some of the folks to talk here when you you get a list of this stuff it's like your Christmas list your kids Christmas list you ask them what they want and they write down everything and then you pick out one or two you don't do the entire list so I think that the one thing here Sue that is the real problem is there aren't new shiny toys here at all the the the only thing that is here are pickle ball cours the rest of it is all safety all environmentally conscious stuff we lose $30,000 in soil to soil erosion that end up down uh buatan road if we do this that will stop that and I'm sure those neighbors down P Canon Road will certainly appreciate the fact that theirs aren't filling up with silk and I'm sure they're probably a lot less expensive ways if we weren trying to put a field on there we could you could just replant that but you need the field which is a whole different thing and that right leads to different types of erosion because again you need a field you want the field there you don't want you don't want a meadow if you wanted a meadow and you put a there you might not have we're integrating some meows into the plant point to prevent the runoff point is that the field is the field and the runoff are going together there is a lot I would think cheaper way if you're only dealing with the erosion but you're not you want a field and I'm not saying we and I'm not saying we should lose a field I am not saying we should the field I'm just saying my feeling is you a better location that maybe doesn't need the same level of of storm water control that that particular location does again I'm not suggesting those other sites would be any better CU I don't know cuz we never looked we never looked we never gave to the dismay of a lot of residents you think this is a big crowd talk about expanding out to those other fields we're going to have a much different difficult time keep saying we spend all this money we bought those I didn't spend the money I wasn't here for that so I don't know what you did but that's because again you think we didn't care about the park we were caring about the park looking for the future and we said look here's the last opportunity to get more land that we might want to use we might need more fields we might need a lot of things that's why we bought those extra prodcts we didn't to to go to poat we them for the potential to excuse me and to not actually even look there I think was a mistake and and I just I'm not sure Who mandated that we not look there but that was the decision by the committee so it wasn't by this committee that was when the planner came in he said I was told I'm only looking at this I'm not looking at those other and I don't know where that came from because that never came to this so it's What's Done may be done I don't know not convinced there's a lot of people that vot excuse me you keep saying I'm talking now go ahead I'm just trying to make up well as I said okay go ahead so all I'm saying is that I don't I don't feel like the that I have all the information um you know I don't know this is the best possible plan M and with that I'm I'm not and I'm also not comfortable ending up with a new tax on people um but as I said I again the maintenance stuff we said we needed to do that but we didn't need a planner to tell us that we already knew we needed to do that we did this whole thing just to learn that we needed to do you wouldn't let me put maintenance in the open space ordinance you otherwise we wouldn't even be talking about this that this is a creation of your own restrictions that you put on the open space act yeah that's right and I'm really glad we did because shortsighted people like you thankfully weren't living here at that point you are entire focused on you know 3 years and we have been planning this town and protecting open space and making this that's why people come to live here they don't come to live here because we have a park that's got a great softball F they actually I'll take I'll take wait a sec we actually had on our last Bond Ordinance one of the answers was what do you find to be the most appealing aspect of the town the number one item on there was dils Farm Park yeah well I can show you I can show you surveys that we took and the number one thing was basically the the farms and the open space and it we can compare we don't need to go there but I'm just saying you know you keep disparaging the work that we've done for years not disparaging anything are to maintain what we have and it's not maintained it's a safety issue that's why you don't understand it's a massive safety issue and then just like Mr uh Brian had to stated eventually someone's going to get hurt someone's going to sue the town and guess what the Bill's going to be a lot higher than this 2 million and that's going to fall on everyone we've got to make fall on everyone already this is falling on everyone don't say it's going to fall on everyone we are in all the minutes Sue in all the minutes of these meetings it has been said repetitively the park is not safe we have people come in say the park is not safe the parking lot is not safe all of that is operable the second that someone gets injured there and they Oprah all these me thank you I'm sure you've now done a good job for us all because you put us all in that situation what are you talking about reality well the reality is the reality is this park has been there for almost 40 years yeah it's Fallen apart it has huge problems I go to the gentleman who said you know there is a little bit of responsibility on the part part of those who go there to see that people are safe they do the best they can I don't need to have and and again I'm not they're volunteers Su they're volunteers and I'm not suggesting I done L much out there we bring the kids in there we you're helping the situation it falls on you to make sure but it falls on you here to make sure they're safe and I'm going to tell you this is a lot more responsibility than your litter March okay well you know what then we should just shut it all down and let people just go out and walk because it's that's what we're going to have to do we're to shut down guess what I bet you the majority of people here won't even know the difference because they don't even know where the park is and they don't use all those you know what sue you I love how you got so excited when your base is here alls I know is when I'm out and I talk to people that you D part with their kids they they're not here tonight because they're with their family somewhere okay they they have young families that they're taking care of they can't be here you call them F that's why they're not here I'm sorry you call the meeting in August we hardly ever do like a big meeting we were supposed to do it in July but Mr Bond was sick that is not my like that's not my fault Su we hardly ever do an important meeting like this in August specifically and I'm I'm telling you your people who are here they're probably on vacation with their families that's great that's great but I know what they're saying to me and they're they're telling us they want the park and that is evident the only thing that I have is the referendum that occurred 3 years ago and it was 3 21 five referendums before that that put that open space tax yeah and so what we can put out another one and see if people want their taxes reduced if everyone's so bured by it let's see what happens so anyway are you done I'm done no keep talking thank you yeah um so I'm not going to argue with anyone who's concerned about taxes going up I I get that that was why I ran in the first place and want to see taxes going up more they do go up and you know I this is one of those situations that isn't easy for me and i' I've been back and forth on this however I've heard from a lot of people in the town um i' I've lived in town I've lived in D's Corner a mile away from the park or less than a mile my entire life and since I could ride a bike go to that Park and I can tell you most of the time there's not a lot to do it that part um but like I said I it's a lot of money and I get that completely about $20 over a long course of time right that does add up so I understand that but being on this committee for 10 years I haven't heard so many people try and push me something residents and use the excuse of what's $20 my taxes go up more than that usually every year it seems like for things that I get nothing out of whether it's paying for you know people you know for employees for that kind of stuff it's important not saying that but most people feel like they're getting something more out of this $20 and they would be any other tax increase that would be you know experiencing um so like I said this lot of the what we're hearing in this room right now does not reflect what I know is the majority of the toship feels we already had a bigger meeting a lot more people there um but again you know I I get it at the end of the day it could be the most magical park ever but you don't want to spend the money I get have that money um but that's not that's not kind of what I actually feel like most of the township feel um they think it's so that being said and this is not to to be rude to anyone in the audience at all but I have been on this committee for 10 years and I feel like we could be talking about something for 10 years advertise it put it on the internet I don't even go on Facebook I don't do any that crap but it would be out there and everyone would see it and there would still be people to show up and say I never heard about this and that's kind of tiring too so I I get it so I I can understand why people have fals but I I feel like the majority of for this and some of them are more excited than they have been you know for any other project we' really worked on um and there's a lot of you know people very you know seeing this as a positive thing too so yeah it it it is a tax increase and I'm not totally cool with that but again we spend a lot of money on a lot of other stuff at the end of the day I think um a lot more people are going to get their money worth out of this what we have here [Music] no okay uh how much time we got much time you want uh first off I just want to say one thing Mr Fleming I got your beat I believe in this Township 83 years okay he's had to go home to bed day not that matter that couple of bucks to give me coule Cofe but anyhow my questions I have questions uh the main concern was initially this was it but as I understand and I listen this will be broken down and going out to bit for different sections of this bu is that correct yeah I mean there's specializations right where people are more specialized in certain aspects than other groups cor I guess we haven't formulated or structured the bids yet but certainly if there seems to be a logical way of breaking up the project we probably could we also talked about briefly about uh potentially phasing the project phasing in terms of we would award the project and then different areas of the park will be worked on at different times under one contract so that you know we don't want the entire park Disturbed simultaneously reason I asked a question is a lot of contractors in the town would like a chance to bid on certain projects here such as the demolition of the old building and so forth on the top we would have to follow the local public contracts law certainly work with but but but to uh committee's point and other contracts I've been involved in Breaking the project out into different sections using Dem it can be advantageous because you might get you might get somebody who would bid a lower bid just on that section and then you know you so you can pick and choose that could be beneficial my concern is I don't want to say one contractor do this whole thing because well it's just better to break it down a little bit and what happens a lot you know contractors do special specialization certainly Specialties they might come in with the sub subcontract to do some get some at least let our local people a chance to bid on it we have a lot of contractors in the township I'm not saying they they need a job I'm saying give them a chance give anybody a chance to bid on certain aspects of this I don't like to do business with one contractor doing this whole thing like basketball courts and so forth you know there's a special contractor that can do that you don't need the guy that's got levels around off for the concrete or blacktop for other of course that's a question and I guess I I think according to our attorney has been pretty well answered uh and I want to just go back to what one we've heard all we did have a referendum fir house is packed and it pass big time this grab tonight is you know not very big compared to that so the township basically does want this to happen here as I can tell and uh question I have at the end here on this budget so-called budget is 10% contingency fee in other words the initial cost is 1,624 then we have a contingency fee what what's that all I just don't understand I'm not complaining about I don't understand what's contingency who gets that I think that's just a build into the budget that the township has in case there are um not that we're adding work to the project but if there are overages during the bidding process we have a 10% buer buffer in the bids the bids come in a little bit High which can happen at times and we do that on all roow jobs and everything and then I next is design engineering and permitting phase where we need to permit and here comes up to $267,000 almost 268 for design engineer and permitting how many times we Design This I mean we have the design over there that's a concept that's not that's not detailed in terms of grading earth work calculations um details of of the courts and the fields and the other elements that be designed to storm water management certainly they are indicated the storm water management facilities need to be designed have to find the plan that any contractor should be able read that's what the fees who these fees where do they go to uh we know we're going to have to do soil Township we have to we have to pay Diane fees to get this stuff I mean it's on here see the whole thing starts out 1 mil6 certainly that's you know part offf comes up to million part of that are engineering surveying design fees soil soil testing fees all to prepare applications to permitting to The Soil Conservation District the intention will be not to impact timelines to avoid where possible any any permitting but we don't know what those impacts will be until we finalize the plans and prepare the pl another thing you got here lights we don't need down there is lights we heard because lights leave the trouble I think it's just safety stuff Dave nothing I understand but still certainly no F ligh liting nothing like that [Music] we get more Outsiders than we need here I was talking to somebody other day they said what me in Delaware Park where's that I didn't know delado well that's great I'm glad they don't know about so let's keep it that way if we can we don't need an Olympic Park down here we need a nice park that's safe and able for everybody to use yeah and if that's what's going to cost us I guess that's what it's going to cost us but I'm hoping that this has broke down some that are individual contractors in the township or in the county or even in the state can bid on this thing not one contractor or a whole thing because that's that's that's that's not not a good I I hope mayor would see to that uh just I don't like this way doing business I think basically right now that's all I have I got lots of items here but they look vary one way or the other so that's all questions I have present time okay thank you Dave any follow on all right get a motion for approve second roll call please I'll vote Yes on ordinance 2024 11 yeah hopefully some of this stuff will be carried out that I talked about and hopefully it'll come in under under the cost once we get it you get it settled down and hopefully there's more than one contract involved yes Susan no Joseph yes James yes thank you okay moving on to the consent agenda so uh we had a couple uh that needed to be pulled 158 okay so I'm going to go ahead and read the consent 149 tax Kill tax cancellation 2024 394 resolution 24150 conditional hiring pling sub code official and inspector 24151 Award of contract police vehicle 2025 utility Interceptor with accessories and Emergency Equipment 24-1 152 a of contract publics 2024 dump body and Associated equipment 24-1 153 award contract Public Works vehicle 2024 for F550 4x4 drw um resolution 24-1 154 Public Works labor Class E upon completion of pro probationary period resolution 24155 authorizing public sales Municipal property through municip uh 24156 authorizing dedication dedication by Rider puru to njsa 44-39 for the retrieve replacement fees uh 24157 authorizing issuance of special event permit Central CL Bicycle Club 24-19 amend 2024 capital budget Raven Rock Road Phase 1 and Mason Farm Road drainage improvements uh- 160 authorizing tax s c certificate Redemption block 2939 uh 161 non-fair and open contract of Land Conservancy of New Jersey and finally 162 authorizing mayor to sign blue light permit application for surgeons bille Fire Company members um if like could get a motion uh to move the consent agenda uh without resolution d18 good second okay uh call call please David B yes Chad B yes Susan yes Jose yes yes okay uh let's talk about uh resolution 24-58 opposing proposed legislation bypassing local zone for home based ordinances um if I could get a motion and a second for discussion motion second all those in fav all okay so JT I'm if it's okay for you I'm going to leave this to you because you really know the ins and outs oh do I better than I do so yeah please put that in air quotes um so I'm assuming this came from the Le municipalities yeah um so in essence as is the propensity of Trenton they like to pass legislation where ever they can to render the local municipality irrelevant and what they're trying to do is to pass how property can be used in a municipality and strip the municipality of being able to regulate through its own ordinances so the leag in this regard I think is right to recommend municipalities oppose this because quite honestly it's not Trenton's business what Delaware Township wants to do within Delaware Township that's why we have our own ordinances that's why we have our own planing board that's why we have our own board of adjustment because the local residents know this and what Trenton wants to say is you Delaware mind your own business you will have no say in how the township is regulated with respect to the home businesses we're going to set the regulation and you'll have no input and I can tell you without even reading what they say in Trenton philosophically in my opinion it's completely inappropriate for Trenton to be dictating in ESS New Jersey land use law is always there's this thing called home rule right in other words everybody gets to regulate how you want to see your town develop whether you want to be rural you know Urban whatever you get to set your own practices and this kind of strips away from that so so I think the the res I think think it's going to have no effect right this this is a feel good thing in terms of but it couldn't hurt to send Trenton a message to basically stay stay in their Lane and stay out of your sandbox right that's what this is can I just ask one question on that um does that mean that if somebody wants to put a uh a business on their property they don't have to worry about delar Township ordinances that just ask somebody in Trenton yeah Trenton would dictate how on this particular issue how we in Delaware Township would have to handle that you would not be you and the local residents would not be able to say how Delaware Township should feel and operate and to me that's always wrong right you elect people in Trenton to to waste your state taxpayer money they don't need to get involved in this sandbox it's it's better to be in at done at a local level where the residents can have direct access to to elected officials go to specific applications before whether it's a planning board or Board of adjustment and be heard there there's already a process in place like we don't need to reinvent the wheel okay I would urge the committee to oppose this legislation which is what this resolution hey com from the committee members I mean I don't know any of the details but I would I don't know again every town is different so especially something home based like that should not be something that you get a directive from the state on because said every Community is different and where a business is and what it is may make sense in some community and not in another community so it doesn't it really doesn't make sense to have state law to tell you what should and shouldn't be considered apprpriate I actually don't quite understand 2 times this is opposing proposed legislation bypassing local Z for home based businesses local Z that's us is it right right so the state wants to over our local Zing don't really say okay all right you're okay very good y okay any further discussion okay I roll call this you okay um all those in favor of resolution I'm sorry [Music] okay move okay all those in favor I any uh any n any extensions okay thank you okay uh resolution 24-1 163 authorizing payment of Municipal obligations in the amount of 2,845 311 uh I have a motion uh any discussion just want Mary just want to let some of the residents know that there's school and County payments in there so heart attack this isn't for the park any uh comments from okay uh roll call please yes suan yes Jose yes may yes okay I don't see anything in your old business new business uh acknowled acknowledge resignation ofing Board of adjustment member of Kane fer uh Chuck Kane was a member for how many years I believe it was uh six years six years and uh he was a good contributor to the to the board well we thank him for his service and um wish him well I know that uh he's no longer going to be in the township so I wish him well wherever he goes and all his future endeavors um so thank please thank him for us I already did he's heading to Florida good for him um next up appointment of Zoning Board of adjustment member to replace Mr fower um I'd like to make the uh suggestion uh Mr Charlie Herman express interest in that position so I'm going to nominate Herman uh I could get a second on that okay uh should we do a vot or want do discussion yeah discussion anyone have a discussion I think that'd be a great idea good I I don't hey I have to live with him I kind of figured um okay I shouldn't ask for a zoning Board of adjustment position later should [Music] I um anyway so uh roll call please hey David yes no just vote yes absolutely yes okay uh historic advisory committee presentation abandoned cemeteries proposal for preservation okay Liza the floor is yours I'm going to give you each a little packet of information and I'm here today to hopefully begin a conversation and inspire you to do something that's very nice for the town very good for the town and hopefully shouldn't cost any money so that's good right so our County Historical Society has had for some time a project to preserve old cemeteries throughout the county and um going to try and you know be concise here she a really my forte um so um over the years they've identified in many of the towns many cemeteries now what you have in front of you is a number of things you have a big map that shows all of the old historic cemeteries in Del Township um produced by our County G program um it's a great map and um so what the County Historical Society approached us some time ago to see if we can um support a project to start to preserve some of the abandoned cemeteries in the township so there are um we're the the ones we're starting with with to to preserve lower Creek Cemetery the mo cemetery and bosen Cemetery and in your little packets there are photographs of those cemeteries and I don't want to inter I'm sorry to interrupt that's okay but three years ago I recall a conversation on this topic yes and I don't have any recollection as to what the specific site was but I recall there were problems with both of them being landlocked and that no easement access I'm going to address all those so my memory is correct yes it is but we we have we can address it okay so um sorry no no it's fine it's fine so the abandoned cemeteries are ones for which there's no clear title anymore you we don't know who owns them or whoever own them nobody owns them really so um there is a process um um it's a it's a statute 40 col 60- 2561 I do that yes yeah I'm sure you do it's called a resting title to an abandoned cemetery and it's a process by which uh a town can U get a court order to transfer title to it uh recently Stockton has done this um for um don't don't don't talk me I hav Stockton's done how the how Cemetery Stockton and East has done it for the Landis cemetery and also in your packets are copies of the court orders um transfering titled to stop and standwell um that ordinance has a process for this um you know what we're hoping is that we can inspire you to um you know have maybe our Township administrators contact Township administrators in those municipali and get a clear picture of exactly what was done um we we're hoping that the township so those three cemeteries lower Creek more bber or the one bosenberry are the ones that really don't have any title no one at this point so under this ordinance this process is um allows the court to award the title to the township the township the ordinance does not have any provision for doesn't require maintenance righted way um this stockt or SC well their process didn't require any of those things and as a matter of fact the township already owns two ceries and that doesn't provide any maintenance right away so we already have precedents for this the Sutton cemetery and the thater one thater Cemetery Firehouse so well you're saying I'm sorry no it's right you're you're saying provide a right away I want to make sure that you and I are on the same page when we're referring to a right away I don't mean where the township would own the property and not give others the right away it's my understanding that these two cemeteries here if I'm thinking of the same are in essence landlocked where there are Property Owners all 360° around the property and they won't give the township access to access that property if they were to own it so in other words the township let me just suggest this that it's it's been done it's being done there's a part there's a statute that allows for this and allows for what to have the the statute from what I understand uh does not require a right of way or a maintenance plan oh I'm I'm sure that's the case so I just again and I should Pro I'm sorry I'm just I'm trying to I'm trying to understand what you're saying is that the township can acquire the property and doesn't need the legal ability to have access to the property required I don't disagree with that but I don't know that that changes my concern or addresses my but but I let you I just wanted to make sure what you were saying access to right away what you were referring I understand building a path and having a I got okay so so go ahead I'm s so no no it's fine so so the thing is right now the cemeteries are vulnerable to anybody could I don't really know the process but from what I understand when a property doesn't have a clear titles there you know there's people can you know obtain title to it in some are way them up you know and we really would like to see these cemeteries preserved and I think that there's a method to do this and we would really like to it's been done in other municipalities too now this is Bob Leaf who's part of the historical society and he's been working on this project for a long time and there's other towns other than Stockton and East that have done this Readington Marton right and so I'm kind of thinking if they can do it you know we can probably too now there's not anything hugely different about Delaware Township than ew you know with respect to this particular issue um and I would really like to see that or like to inspire your committee members to you know let's take let's continue this conversation and see what how we can do this you said they they've done this in Readington and riton as well well I'm I'm I'm an attorney and I'm the land use attorney in both of those municipalities I can make inquiry there good see step one check check mark next to them right like Nancy B says check mark next to them and you know if if it's useful you know to maybe I don't know I know you're all about the park right now but maybe you know you can contact stock and see what they've done although you have should we do we have anybody know St administrator pull she'll pull herself tomorrow do we have that extra pack wasn't there already it to okay so you have the Pack share with so that's what I'm hoping you know you know so if maybe we can do those two things you know reach out to and see what what they've done and [Music] um and so I hope you know I've inspired you a little bit to to you know do this thing um the Deep searches have already been done so check um Rich melli who's an attorney Liv in the town and attorney lville has done the Deep searches for these properties and I guess established that there is nobody who owns them um or there's no clear title anyway and um and I guess the next thing would be what's that next thing that the thing that's good okay okay if you could just give permission for us to research this to get an attorney to give you something um East well did this you L block is already established and they have no access foro or so we can do that I know it would not be an impediment to quieting title to get ownership that wasn't the legal advice that I gave my concern was why would the township want to acquire property that it could never have access to to maintain or the owner of it and you can't maintain it what's the purpose of acquiring property if you could never touch it sounds like preservation preservation to make sure that nothing else well it's it's preserved right now because anybody who goes on it is Tres but it's not protected it's preserved but it's not protected anybody could you know that's the problem they can smash head stones or steal them and nobody owns the property if the towns are bones then there's there's some there's some measure of protection anyway it's simple we just need but we we would never be able to we would never be able to inspect it to see if there's any damage because we would be trespassing to get there that's that I'm just I'm just thinking as a practical matter like if you can't get there what's the benefit of of I understand by owning it you prevent somebody else from oning it but you're not even be able to inspect it to see if a headstone and if a headstone is damaged I can I would have to give legal advice to DPW I would have to say you're not allowed to go repair it without permission and we've already spoken to one of those owners and they said no buo you'll never be I will never let you walk on my property to get this what do you do with that you know what that's a set of assumptions I think that if any of those were the case we could approach the homeowners the homeowners of the surrounding and we could talk to them have a conversation and start to try and impress upon them the value and I think that would be helpful and I think that I think that my interest and I'm always speaking for myself I'm going to do whatever whatever the township committee directs me to do but but I don't mind sharing my thoughts with everybody I would like I would I would much prefer an application to the court to quiet title to to obtain ownership on that with a recorded access easement that would allow the township to be able to get on that property to fix a headstone to do whatever and if that property owner would be willing to encumber their property to allow the township limited access we could make it you know no equ you know we you could Define that access in any manner that would give that property owner Comfort level but for me I would at that point that now that becomes interesting in terms of you'd be able to effectuate a purpose in acquiring ownership but to acquire ownership without the ability to ever access it why would you want to like the benefit kiss that's all I'll propose you you pursue it and ready R I'm going to ask stop and we can think about property owners and we can I will speak with Christina Schwarz tomorrow start but you have something yeah and we could start with lower Creek Cemetery because it's founded on one side by New Jersey conservation where you could get so let's do that one first well Richmond get get the paperwork for that it's very simple you already have access the access I disagree with you totally because how can s can do it and can do it and why can't work well you know so one step at a time let start with you have access we'll get the pay to you and then next month again I've never I've never said that you couldn't acquire ownership with access as a legal matter I what I'm saying is I don't see the benefit of doing it but again if the township committee says we want to acquire ownership even though we can never access it certainly that could be done so I thought not to prolong the agon oh please we just went through a lot of Agony I'm sorry this is happiness happiness but I thought the problem before was we were trying to get a third party access maybe it's different township I thought it wasn't I thought there was I don't I don't remember I thought there was a third party that wanted to do maintenance and we were trying to facilitate that I I don't it might have it could have been which may not be the same as the township owns a property it may have been need I'm just surprised I remembered anything at all to be honest you're right there definitely was but I could swear it was that there was already somebody currently with sort of a verbal okay to access and maintenance and there was some movement for whatever reason to formalize that and when it came to formalize it the owner did not want to form there was something like that I don't remember was that one one of these three yeah we've had access to these cemeteries for 10 12 years through the project and then we've gotten better back because we realize we don't need that formal access so all I want from you guys is tonight to say okay we're in favor of let's start with lower Creek one step at a time one step at a time I don't know if that me a resolution well what I what I would what I my legal advice is this that that falls under potential contract negotiation subject to so I think we should I think we should discuss it in executive session uh we can do it whenever the T and then we come out an executive session and the mayor can be authorized to follow up with you guys in terms of what the township committee well if we start with the one which is the one the new jerse conservation one which is the one the lower Creek start what I'm saying is let let Township committee discuss whether they even want to proceive or not and then give you advice as to to do it or not have I inspired you a little bit are you a little bit inspired about this passion this that's okay well done all right good thank you thank you thank you sir okay uh okay weok for uh public meeting so or public comment my apologies this isn't necessarily uh anything tied to the agenda um give you the three minutes and if you could speak from the podium it would be appreciated uh could I have a motion to open up for public comment second all those in favor I okay anyone that would like speak Jan weather Delaware Township I would like to suggest that the township committee coordinate with the board of education so that residents that are interested in the actions of both parties don't have to pick and choose which one they're going to attend Miss stall brought up the solar panels and the cost of the playground I would have been interested in knowing more about that so if you could consider a little coordination with meeting dates that would be great okay thank you y just from here Rich warsky uh came with neighbors to the ront cemetery um I'm real need to the concept of open space ation um but I think of it as two things a toal community with respect to drawing upon some of that funding to finance what must be done for the preservation of the heal of the kids and the community to use the par but I also think that as kind of forward looking in terms of the insurance policy when not if um perhaps a negative uh assault on development in the community um uh takes place and that requires resources to do it and I also understand listening back and I'm only here six years with an immigrate from Lambertville where they are facing an existential Development question on top of the hill above the city of lamberville um and so that 1.5 if I heard the number correctly it may now be1 and4 million still amount of money on my understanding with respect to the concern about um a coordinator for the group and I've sat in on a total of one open space committee meeting but all of a sudden I'm I'm visiting other communities listening to their their Planning and Development concerns um so that that coordinator position sounds really really important to me because I big cliche order the boots are on the ground terms development and the uh economy and the depth of pockets of people who are ready to put money down for homes also matches if we think about the uh the age of our or the demographic of our community um 60 or 59 or whatever it is a lot of the folks that maintain Farms whether they're operating Farms or they have Farm assessments or they historically been in the tax records for hundreds of years as Farms um may not have a solution other than maybe cashing out with the biggest offer which could you know turn into R Township that's that's the choice they have made so I'm just weighing in with opinions about the value of a coordinator for open space and the thought of you've seen no results on the 1.5 million to date but that's kind of what insurance is about and it may also be something that's active in terms of being able to make a counter proposal to a family that owns a attractive land and would rather not sell it but it in in the absence of competition for the land which reminds me the the township boom all right so I'm done you finish right so close to the end of this the last part the last part is I think it's an open conversation and not that ra WS K I've read um some information that says you never catch up with new bills the the demand on the community and it just is what it is you know the cost of our communities the cost of our society and our economy there always going to grow so I understand the hunger for for RS got to have them but I also don't believe that um putting land in open space preservation and perpetuity necessarily Brands Delware Township as a as a community in Decline here comes the no nose time you know I think that's open for discussion and debate this just one man's opinion and I'm new to the new to this community so they have a that debate has been going on for a long time so thank you appreciate it anyone else sure mayor I meant to send you an email I forgot um over the earlier this summer for storm water updating every year is that something we have the township has do every year to meet the regulations that we did this past spring just onging so if we if we can I know I know Sue's requested this a couple of times if we can I'd love to do that before like the end of the deadline to do that we've been asking for a joint meeting with the storm water committee the environmental commission and it's just timing has just been I think the idea SE I think the idea behind the meeting would be you know how can we divy up the responsibility to see if we can meet those requirements CU it was actually pretty easy um one of the guys from your office called me um like the day before it was due and we har it out it took like 25 minutes but if I was at home or I I was I actually was working home that day it wouldn't have gotten done I don't know what the repercussions of that would have been what was that about the public education and Outreach it was Outreach it was like how can we check boxes you know we use the bridge as like a newspaper like there's some things Che yeah and it was easy but I just you know I'd hate for that to not get done because we don't plan ahead of time almost a year out from doing it again but even if we don't do a joint meeting maybe we could even do a couple of people from each of those commissions and meetings at a time it's giving it for you I know that you probably attend a lot of meetings um I know we probably pay you to be at these meetings um let's make it easy uh to do this and it doesn't have to be you know in September but perhaps between now and whatever it was end of May only of month was if we can it's per calendar year so whatever whatever has to be done that's reported on May 1st needs to be completed by December 31st that's really one tiny element of the entire permit that's why we have been the storm water committee like wants to way and then we brought that sort of to the environmental so I we all want to participate if we can if there's a role for us and that's why we were just trying to and that together with the road department we figured we all play a role somehow and right now I don't think any of us know what our role is well that's what certainly I I totally I totally get where you're coming from both uh what we what we've been focusing on now is this beginning of this new permit it's a perment cycle 2023 to 2028 January 1st to January 1st um beginning really was these ordinances adopting those ordinances um you know certainly with with Justin with DPW updating the or at least understanding the current operations at the DPW Yard reporting to this DP what those operations are forming um or preparing a report that um really outlines a prevention plan for the yard and you know really justce daily operations with the DPW there is a large element and we talked maybe mentioned it before in different conversations um you know the mapping of all the storm Mar facilities that proposal has now been approved and it's it's on our docket and not not me myself but another department the gis Department geographical Information Systems Department they're be coming into town hopefully the next a month or two to survey the entire town locate every ditch every pipe every outfall every drain every Everything whatever touches storm water they have to map and that's required under the permit once that element is complete there is the next threeyear phase and that's where I think the Rano commission as well as our committee as well as the storm water committee would be certainly involved as well as planning board the zoning board this committee the T committee it's called The Watershed Improvement plan I've recently worked on um you know Delware the highlands but the highlands is actually putting out um they have a grant program right now for for compliance so I put together a scope of work and I can certainly share that with you for this watered Improvement plan and that is where that's where I think we're going to really get into the Weeds on this thing and bring the public into it and all the Committees and we need to talk about localized flooding erosion um you know dra General drainage problems and then that's where through a three-year process which includes multiple phases of public meetings we have to create this Watershed Improvement plan that we now have to get to the DP and that has three years of of reporting requirements and in the end what's going to happen is we're going to find that when we do a road job now we're not going to just you know minimize the disturbance minimize the paving but now we have to make a commitment to start doing storm water improvements on these projects so we're going to pave half half a mile road we're going to have to build into that and it might affect how long PR much road we can pave but we have to actually do some drainage improvements on that not just you know repair a CCH Basin but actually do something that's going to reduce the runoff or improve the water quality or do something else and that's what's going to come out of all these conversations so so that's that's coming down the pipe we again I guess I guess the mapping is the first part of right I guess my ask is that if there's a deadline need you met you need information just just you know maybe oh sure some sort of reminder you know a little ahead of time we can get that to you very easily I think that's the point sure and then just one other quick thing I know Justin mentioned it before there is a a really beautiful whiteo Trail sign that's been moved so everyone can see it and it's wonderfully mowed um so this is my monthly pitch for everybody to go to way trail go hiking um it hasn't looked better in a long time and I love the way that the sign up it's a little different so you're dve any direction you know where to go I encourage all of you to do it um it is quite nice this time there you I thank you anybody [Music] else um C broke too uh we created an ordinance so that um people couldn't Park on those particular roads certain time was it all the time all the time just because of the narrowness of the roads and anticipating possible large volumes of in certain areas [Music] I mean if someone's parked there and those ordinances are in effect for that particular call police and maybe they should they probably should start warning these guys because you the same yeah [Music] everywhere Street and landscapers why can't par in the driveway right I mean I mean there's at least one I know that I'm driving and it's right by a [Music] hill so on any of those roads that are marked and someone is doing that call the call the police well I said they don't have should just give them a little yeah War I mean listen our police aren't exactly out to give tickets you know they'll warn them and then if it's recurring it's be thank you anybody sir just one minute before the attorney if if the township took possession of these things in the title that would prevent an adverse possession it would prevent an adverse possession because my legal opinion is that adverse possession does not apply to a municipality and now that's your your reason to get we we'll send the bill I still don't know anybody else next okay hearing can I get a motion to close public s all those in favor I okay let's see uh any final Township committee comments Mr B I'm going to start with you Blackwood I've certainly said enough tonight so I am good uh we are going to go ahead and move into executive session for appr resolution 24164 to enter into executive session for discussing personel matter attorney Cent privilege this discussion is expected to take approximately 30 minutes action may be taken [Music] everything every [Music] day uh do we any anything to do with Adam or engineer [Music]