##VIDEO ID:s-I5ZQuDG4I## good evening everyone I'd like to call this meeting to uh order this meeting of the Denville Township Board of Education is being held in accordance with the open public meetings act notice of this meeting was provided to the Daily Record Andor The Star Ledger of Morris County has been delivered to the Township Clerk and has been posted on the bulletin board of the board of education office and at each of the school buildings in the district roll call please Dore here Mrs sellis Dr Aruna dessan here Mr Cass here Mr Anderson here Mr Capello here Mr Kim here uh there is no need for an executive session so if we can all please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance okay tonight we have a few presentations so we'll start it off with the 2023 2024 School audit presentation uh by Mr Brian Co and Miss uh Manley from uh NIS n oia LLC hi I'm Brian Co from nissia thank you for having me here again today um um I think I came last year tooo right yeah I believe every the board has a handout it's just summarizing what's in these wonderful books that we make for you every year um so I'm going to just start by thanking dearis and the business office for all the hard work you do and putting up with us because I know the Auditors are everybody's favorite people and we appreciate your patience and prioritizing us when we come and we really appreciate that okay so starting off in general fund so that's going to be the top of your worksheet this summarizes the difference between the 2023 and 2024 general fund fund balance what makes it up so you ended 2024 with $10 million and you started off the year at 9.8 so you went up $331,000 each one of these reserves here makes up your fund balance so incumbrances increased by 385 cap cap Reserve decreased by 68,000 manance Reserve was the same unemployment it went up a little bit and the excess surpluses for the two years we kept at $200,000 and then unassigned decrease by $41,000 that is a state calculated amount that is roughly 2% of your total expenditures but there's a couple of adjustments that we allowed to take with that too which is mainly extraordinary Aid and non-public Transportation Aid are not included in that 2% so that's why it changes a little bit every year based on your xade and your non-public Transportation but that's the money that's set aside that doesn't need to be in any particular Reserve or named assigned something so then your $331,000 that your fund balance increased we did a little breakdown right below that so you can see all the different items that attributed to that um so we started with local state and federal revenues you can see we got $210,000 over what we budgeted for the locals same with the state 212 and for the federal we got $144,000 less than what we budgeted that is just general fund though so that is the semi um Medicaid is what is called the funds that we get from the feds so then we had unexpended budget appropriations of $4.3 million but I'll go back that number I have a little breakdown down below um Surplus was used is the 200,000 000 which is one of the 200,000 from up above prior incumbrances of 669 and then some other small items I'm going to skip down to the budget withdrawal from capital reserve so you anticipated to take $2.9 million from your capital reserve and use it to balance your budget for capital projects you didn't use all of it so some did get sent back but that was part of the $331,000 change same with maintenance Reserve you used 43,000 you budgeted for but some of it you didn't use so you did send that back so in total it came up with a $331,000 difference between July 1 2023 and June 30th 2024 so then just below that there's an little explanation for the $4.3 million of unexpended budget Appropriations so it's mostly encumbrances the unexpended capital reserve projects of $2.1 million and the unexpended maintenance capital reserve project balances so those again are the anticipated funds that you did not use and then that comes down to $716,000 remaining budget Appropriations and that is about 1.8% of your total budget there which is a good healthy number to have as unexpended so you had options in there but most of that is from the unspent health benefits um you Chang your plan during the year is it from from the state plan to a private plan and that's saved you money on that of course now things are changing this coming year with the health benefits but you got one year's benefit out of that for quite a bit any questions so far okay so then on the back it just goes over your breakdown of capital reserve and your maintenance Reserve where we started the year a little bit of Interest earnings transferred by resolution so at the end of the year the state allows you to take some of your excess Surplus and move it back into your reserves to be used in future years so we moved 654 th000 to capital reserve and 225,000 sorry 226,000 to maintenance um the unexpended balances returned of 2.1 and 388 are really just netted with the 2.9 negative and the 400,000 and then we had a withdraw by board resolutions for small amounts the 2500 was to finish a capital project in fund 30 and then some maintenance Reserve items um that came up during the year so then if you notice your maintenance Reserve ended and began with the same $1.5 million that is the maximum amount you're allowed to have in your maintenance Reserve based off the square footage of your buildings thank you very much uh I'll open it up to the board for any questions that uh they might have all right great well we again we didn't have any recommendations this year thanks to dearis and her team's hard work and we really appreciate that hard work we did have a couple of suggestions to just draw your attention to again that the just because we didn't have to do a federal single audit doesn't mean that um the federal government might not come in at a later time so to make sure you maintain those records and then the other item was gasby 101 compensated absences is a new requirement change but we uh dearis and the team decided to early adopt that so that one's already um included in our audit this year great thank you and I want to thank uh I want to extend our thanks as well to Mr D rowski and her team as well so as well as a finance committee so thank you thank you for that presentation you're welcome okay moving on with the agenda we'll uh now go to Dr cis's presentation of the 2023 2024 njla test results in yep thank you Rebecca I appreciate that I appreciate that well it's time again to go over our njsla results I always like to share the data with you because it's a lot of work behind the scenes for an entire year uh and we get the results really in two batches the first set of data I'm going to share tonight and that's really our raw data we use that to initially uh in placements for students and also for their programs to see if there's specific goals that we have for each student uh then we also look at Trends and curriculum Trends across grade levels but that's all of our own individual data because we don't have any comparative data as of yet so the second presentation they'll do usually comes end of January February when we start to get our nebor ing districts or comparative districts data and then we can actually look at our data compared to what everyone else has done I do have some comparative data tonight that runs from 2016 to 2021-22 school year I'm sorry all the way to 2223 school year so it's not this data but I I do have a five-year uh data collection that I can share with you comparatively first just our initial data if you look uh in comparison to how our district performed compared to the state on the left side you'll have Ela and on the right you have math for third grade we have 73% proficient and then on again on the right is compared to 44 fourth grade was 76 fifth grade was 78 sixth was 74 seventh grade 86 and e8th grade 73 so that highlighted 86 was our highest of our of our Ela scores and then on the right you can compare them and you just notice that's a 44% increase or uh for 44% disparity that were higher than the state average for that seventh grade ELA on the right you'll see our math scores it runs from third grade at 71% 64% for fourth 58 for fifth 56 for sixth SE 67 for 7th and then 26th for eth and then again on the right side of that you see it's comparison with State the two arrows that are marked red on the right for math are the two grades that we had focus on uh that was the fourth grade we did the Intensive coaching in fourth and seventh if you'll note we had a 20 or 19% increase in our fourth graders but if you look at our seventh graders it's incredible how much of an increase uh we had went over the state we are at we're at 67% the state's at 38 and just to on the next slide you'll see see last year the same seventh grade teachers were at 37% so that is a 30% increase um over one year um after coaching eighth grade still low but we're moving in the right direction we started this two years ago we were at 14% we moved up to 20 and then we moved to 26 so we are moving in the right direction this is just our core I'm happy to see that our algebra grades our algebra scores are back in the 90s we don't have the 80s anymore and then geometry was 100 % again so those are scores that we would see preco uh and I'm glad to see that we're back uh at that place in comparison from 23 to 24 same scores that I just mentioned uh but you can look yourself and see how it compared to last year I did note that in seventh grade the ELA was significantly higher in that group and then also in the math went from 37 to 67% so those are really the highlights uh did note again the fourth grade you can see it went from 52% to 64 those were the two Focus grades that we did the coaching the cohorts so what you saw before let just go back this what you see here really tells us information about grade level curriculum and training for teachers so year-over-year how are those seventh grade teachers doing year after year delivering the same content or improving their content based on uh training the next slide is really the cohort how did the students perform uh so you can follow the same color as you move down so in 2022 so this is our first group of that has all of the data from uh postco so our third graders were at 60% that first year back and then 73% and then this year 78% the next group you can see fourth grade cohort was 78 right after covid then went to 81 and then uh transitioned from 5ifth to sixth there's always that uh downward turn slightly from 81 to 74 but if you remember last year that was about a 20% down and now this is uh much less that's what 7% decrease and they seem to go back up so if you look at the fifth grade cohort did take that downturn of 10% last year and then went back up into the 80s at the end of sixth grade so um that transition is is challenging keep in mind that the test for third through fifth grade is the similar type of test and then there is a change when they get to sixth grade so there's a lot of transition that happens not only in the testing style but also in the independence of the student so we do see that slight downturn however it's good to see that it's coming back up same with the the sixth grade cohort uh was 74 and then this year 73 so about the same amount if you look over at math I'm going to start with that third grade cohort went from 55 to 52 and then up to 58 the fifth grade went from 64 four and only a slight downturn of 62% so only 2% uh transition loss and then as sixth graders went back up I sorry seventh graders went back up to 71% so that's what we want to see and our sixth grade cohort went from 44 37 then up to 51 so those were that is good information to see and again that eighth grade that that eighth grade score includes algebra geometry and all of our other uh Corner advance math so it's all math students there uh for science science is a tricky one uh because the assessment has changed if you remember in the days uh we had a lot of 300s students did incredibly well across the entire State once they changed the test and the standards things really took a shift in the state if you notice that the the pink column I mean 14% of 8th grade where it used to be almost 100% so certainly think have changed just to give you some background on that test uh with the new standards each question does test content ability to p uh interpret that content in a graph chart picture and also to be able to use that data in an open-ended question students are required to read uh passages sometimes multiple passages and then toggle between multiple tabs to read so they'll have a one toggle or one tab of reading another tab of reading then another tab of the charts and then the fourth tab is to answer the questions so students who had executive function issues whether it's organization or auditory processing any of things these are difficult things so it's very hard to measure if this is content because I also know that these eighth grade students that have 28% go on and take three AP classes as seniors I mean we know that our students are doing very well in the high school in the advanced math science classes so I'm not sure if this is telling us a lot of information about how well we're doing um of course we would like to see this up as far as comparative to the state we're kind of in the middle right in moris County we're like in the middle we're not the top we're not the bottom we're like almost in the middle so we would like to see this move up just as comparison because I know that we should be similar to neighboring districts so we would like to see this increase for sure this is just for your information if you want to see what percentages go across from not proficient all the way up to exceeding clearly that in ela you notice that mostly you see green which is great because those are students that have passed that's meeting expectations and exceeding expectations so you definitely want to see it higher on that end we do not see a bell curve here H you definitely see that the students are trending upward as far as performance on math you see a little bit more of a bell curve not quite but it is more Central uh like a bell carve would be however our students are tending to be in the passing range so you can see that light green column that those are all representative students that are meeting expectations so we would of course like to see the yellow smaller uh red smaller and then the bright green higher and that's how we're in the direction we're moving but I'm very pleased of the growth we're making in math at this time this is some data on pre and postco so 2019 where did we leave off and where did we pick up so in 2019 was our last testing date before covid and the or or the orange was a 75 the yellow fourth grade group was 87 and fifth grade was 90 when they came back a few years later when we started testing again in 22 you can see that that uh orange group went down that first year they were at 63 but then rebounded in 23 and 24 coming back to preo levels uh in fourth grade we had 87 they came back first year 86 and then around 80 this year so they came back fairly strong and then the last group uh of Co from covid because all of these students will now have graduated out they came back they started as fifth graders took the test got a 90 and then that first year we only have that one year of data in 22 because they all went on to high school and that's the last of those groups so no longer will we have that data to compare how they did after covid so we will just be picking up where we left off uh and see follow those students moving forward to do a school comparison I don't really like to do the comparison because I really do feel like both of our schools are providing Equitable programs we have all of the same curriculum we have the same assessments we have the same coaches they meet with this you know each Team every week so I don't think anyone's getting less training it really does come down to individual student grade levels because you'll notice there's not like we might it might be something if we saw that one school over another in every grade but it really just depends on the subject and the grade for that for that particular year so you can notice that for ELA uh Lake View was higher at 75 and River viw was 69 but then you go to fifth grade Lake View is at 75 and Riverview is at 82 so really just depends on on the particular student in that grade we have about 105 in every grade level around uh in elementary and then we have at Lake View and we have about 60 to 65 in each grade at Riverview uh for math pretty Equitable they're very close in math and then science uh last year they were exactly the same and slightly lower at Lake View this year and slightly higher at Riverview but still around that same place so I don't really see anything that stands out that we would uh need to draw attention to improving one school over the [Music] other okay our subgroups so for this subgroup for ELA it's gender uh if you notice our gender is pretty even uh as far as meeting expectations are males and females we have 51% female and 49% male in our across our school district and as far as meeting we they're almost exactly the same for exceeding we see higher for females you see what about a 12% higher and exceeding and that's really that difference there where in males it's a little bit higher on approaching for math it's almost exactly the same and one that's interesting is for science last year this data was uh a slight disparity of males it was 9% higher for males and this year it swung more to females and it's 2% higher for females so all in about the same place if you look across that so any any ground we had we were not reaching any Gap we had in math and science were pretty Equitable in those areas for gender for subgroups for program uh this is always very interesting to see how do our subgroups perform on this assessment because a lot of the needs that they have are difficult in these types of standardized testing situations but if you notice uh over the years we're pretty much the same and we're certainly aren't really going down if anything we're going up our students that have 504s are continuing to go up in language arts our special education's about staying the same in language arts Jed is the same elll is increased so these are students that are multilingual Learners and yet they're performing at 60 almost 60% here in English I think that's pretty amazing uh and then our free and reduced lunch that's about the same the next slide I'm not going to go over this is for your information to look back on but it is a requirement that we share all the raw data with the board so that's there for for you to look at if you want to see each individual group as far as math I'll point out um that the uh students with 504s again significant increase here we've got 10% increase each year for that particular group and increases in gen Ed and increases in special ed for math it's really nice to see that staircase just going up I'm also thrilled to see that our students that are multilingual are 52% this year as opposed to two years ago um 19% proficient so that is fantastic the reason there's no data uh in those two areas in 23 we just didn't have enough students in that category uh to receive a score they withhold scores under 10 students I do want to point out this one line though right in the middle and the middle school if you just look at the increase of math for special education our special education program so students that have IEPs if you look at where we were in 2022 we had almost 37% ones not meeting at all the lowest score that you can get and this year 19% so that's a huge cut of being having a score of one moving into a twos we had 28% went to 26% so again we are uh decreasing which is what we want in threes we had 25 we about stayed the same but that's approaching so that's like a about to 740 and passing 750 and then look at the increase in meeting we have 10 almost 11% were not we're meeting in 2022 and two years later we're almost 30% meeting and then finally we have actually one student I'm so thrilled we never hardly ever have students in this category but we have a student that received a five and I'm it's that's amazing so you can just see that growth in a couple of years we really are moving even if the numbers don't just stand out and say look they're really growing you can see that they are growing they're moving um from ones up to fours and fives and that's what we need to see that's closing the Gap okay for science again programs so you can see that our 504 students improved every year uh our special education's just been a little bit up and down in this this is an like I mentioned a reading assessment there's a lot of reading in it so uh our stud students who we didn't have any that reported we had less than 10 but students that do not have to take the reading assessment the ELA assessment still the El students still have to take science even if it's their first year and they learning English which is kind of crazy they don't have to take English but they do have to take the science again this is for your data and this is an interesting one here's the comparative that I mentioned so starting with 2016 of have all the data going to 2223 so not this current data because the state hasn't released it yet you want to be in the bright green the bright green says that you are in the top 80 to 100% top 20% of the state out of 542 districts in 2223 how did we Faire so Statewide we have been in the 90s before covid and then after we're in the 90 90th perent and then 88th percentile for the whole state so we're fairing very well if you look across program look specifically at our elll population 91% that's where we ranking in the state our students with IEPs 95 fth percentile so we're in the top five% of our state our students are our special education students are doing very well in their programs um across different races we don't have a large uh differen we don't have a large group difference so some these aren't shared but we were at 81 81% and 92 for Hispanic and then 86 for uh Caucasian white students so in the top 20% but even in most of the categories 12th and above in the whole state in math we have um in 2023 we're in the 77th percentile so even though we've been really struggling with math you notice that after covid we're still in the light green which means top um you know the top 40 % of the uh of the state so 77th percentile for elll or still 87% 85 in math for special education and then across you can see the races and then in science you can see that as well so the yellow and the reds are the areas you want to work on uh and then the bright green and the lime green are the areas that you're doing well so I'm very pleased I mean when I saw this to see that we're in the top 5% across the whole state uh that's all school districts it's pretty impressive because I know that we're really pushing and that's why I say that sometimes when we get our numbers our raw data it's hard to know is that good you know we always are pushing more and more and want everyone to get 100% of course but it's great to see that we're moving in the right direction the last I'm not really going to spend a lot of time on this but again this is compliance data if you want to look and see across uh different races how are we per Performing um you can see most of our students uh across all Races more of our students are meeting and exceeding expectations none of them are categorically not performing right there's students in every race that of of every race that are in the lower scores but not predominantly there's nothing standing out there math I think there's a little bit more significance that I noticed because I still see the light green is standing out the most but you can see the orange and red uh and yellow a little bit more for um our African-American students or those that um are are reporting Hispanic multilingual I mean sorry multiply multiracial excuse me with that so those are areas we want to to watch and then science same type of thing okay so so what do this mean so here's some highlights our Ela scores have are similar or have rebounded to the 2019 achievement our males and females have similar achievement data and math and science Gap we had is closing I mean really it's insignificant any difference in math and now it's only 2% in science so really small gaps Ela is has the largest gap it's 12% we had significant increase in proficiency rates in those Target grades so as we do that intense coaching it seems to continue to work as it did in third and sixth this year we moved from 52 to 64% in fourth grade and 37 to 67% in in uh 7th grade there's a 23% difference between the district and the state performance and that's taking all the grades and averag and 25% higher than the state average in ela across all grade levels we have been doing more individualized assessments and programs to meet our students needs the achievement gap for students with IEPs in 504 seem to be closing we've significantly reduced them especially in sixth through 8th grade we've seen significant growth in our subgroups from 22 to 24 which was that comparative data and then core seven math students uh just to give you an idea which this is exciting for me going into eth grade because eth grade is the one that struggles like we core eth grade but right now in our eighth grade classes they went in to 8th grade with 60% of them are proficient in core math because they took Core math and 35% of them were approaching so their scores were like 740 to 750 it's close so we're really really close to moving that group up so where we're sitting at 26% we should not be sitting at 26% because right now they went into seventh grade 90 95% of them are almost on grade level they on grade level or just slightly below so we really should see some improvement in um 8th grade this year so I'm thrilled to say that and last these are just our areas of growth continue with math we continue with science those that's why we made a goal this year as a focus area uh in our district goals we want to have our consistency in math across all grade levels and then cons continue to focus on the subgroups when there's any gaps and then I just here's a lot of different strategies that we're using we're doing a lot and I think you know because you're approving all of the of the resolutions so I just want to thank you for really supporting all of these initiatives because without this I don't think we'd have these increase in our scores we continue with that summer program uh for students that do not have IEPs which is really important we are extending our intensive math coaching now it's in fifth and eighth grade this year and we're also providing uh at noost tutoring to students at both elementaries and the middle school we have new units of study we have uh staff developers we have new um math program and we have new science programs so so the curriculum continues to improve and so does our so does our training so I think our scores will as well let's open up for questions thank you Dr Cullis I'll go ahead and open open it up to the board for any questions for Dr Cullis it's always a lot of data I know it's the big one of the year it's a good thing we're not students are going to be tested on it tomorrow but you have a cheat sheet there it's great to see the Improvement I know we've had a lot of discussions about the postco uh Hill Climb so that's great um one question early on with the um you were talking about I believe it was grades five and six that uh they had extra help and which you know showed in the uh Improvement which which is great so my question is is you know as we move along with this this program the variables that extra help brought to help those students become better and improve the scores and um is it is it more time is it expertise of the staff doing it I mean what ex you know what we like to see is everybody showing that same type of improvement either with or without the extra help and I'm sure extra help costs more money and resources with the staff I think the we have very talented staff I think there was a switch in we've did a switch in thinking not necessarily more time in class but a switch in thinking and also a switch in the way we addressed curriculum we did change up units and we selected certain units and we moved them earlier in the year because we felt that students just like multiplicate or I'm sorry fractions we move that to earlier in the year where usually they don't even get to that in fourth grade till like March and then they take a test on it in in May beginning of May so they barely had any time to even address it so we moved it to the beginning of the year so we continue with addition subtraction multiplication division but we started with fractions so that they have chance to work with fractions and decimals all year long instead of getting it in March so those slight differences um I I think the staff has also looked at using their time a little differently they do a lot more small group coaching and a lot less whole group homework I suppose you know like where you practice a few problems and then everybody just goes and works they do do that however the teacher during time pulls small groups and works with the students on anything any type of Gap they may have not just what that day's homework is so I do think it's a change in philosophy philosophy as well as uh practice um not so much time I don't think we've given any more time in school I don't I don't think we have any more time to give but we do have the after school and summer programs too I mean I think that's really where it I really do think the teachers have just really embraced it uh and took it on took it really as a mission that they wanted to do it has been difficult with Staffing there's no you see every time um the leaves that we've had and we've had leaves in key grade levels and key subjects and so it's up and down you know it it's hard like they're really strong well-trained and then it's a different group the next year maybe in that grade level for a short time but it does make a small difference okay just one more follow up on that uh to no that's that's good I mean you know it's very positive we're we're making progress but I know when I was subbing of valie I got to know some of the teachers there and uh you know maybe after class after school I had time to talk to them a little bit well before I was on the board of that obviously and they talked about the new math which many of us grew up with did not grow up with and the the old math where you you know the addition you know the basics addition subtraction division multiplication you were drilled on it and uh you you remembered it so I'm wondering if you know this transition to new maath or when some somebody in the industry comes up with something entirely different maybe to sell you know sell more textbooks and things like that if that has an impact on the kids when you're learning it one way and then there are adjustments or wholesale changes to the way you're learning a math is that could be a factor too it certainly could I I do have to say that our use of the text is minimal I think the majority of our teaching is now from the curriculum based on teacher uh practice so they do a lot of calibration of practice but they don't really use the book as much as what we did as kids I mean certainly all the foundational things are there they do um fat fluency and all those things but they definitely are taking it from a comprehension and number sense perspective more than computation like I really think that helps we you know our teachers understand math our you know Middle School teachers all majored in math all our ele not all of our elementary schools teachers majored in math but I think that working one-on-one with the coach the way they have has really built their math competency and just their confidence so thank you thank you Dr cus I always appreciate um your analysis of the data um I had actually asked Dr KS a question couple weeks ago about the science grades cuz I had seen the the my daughter's uh test scores come back and I was just looking at the district and she immediately uh knew the information so I appreciate your in-depth knowledge of this uh information when you always present it to us one quick question is just um one of the things I noted was if you compare the free and reduced lunch uh subpopulation um from Ela versus math I see and I know it's a small group group so I will say that that I know this is always hard to look at but just wondering what your thoughts are I think it was like slide 13 versus 15 it seems like the disparity in ela free and reduced lunch to our for instance gen Ed population was not as significant as the math was any insight on that or thoughts on that I do I've had this conversation with Dino we've had some interesting conversations because what's interesting about Ela it's literacy students have been talking since they're born many of their parents have been reading to them they've been doing their letters and when they get to school it's still the same basic language and each year gets more sophisticated the skills are essentially the same it just get a little bit more complicated the opposite is true of math so at the beginning it's it's number count it's very minimal um number sense right very simplistic and then each year it's actually new content and it's getting more compc at and more complicated and more complicated by the time think about it's calculus by the time you graduate high school whereas Ela is pretty much just gotten more sophisticated but the students just continue to grow as readers and writers but math it's a new if you didn't have it strong the year before it's even harder the next year and harder and harder so I do think that we're always going to see students that are struggling struggle in math more they are more than they're going to do in Reading just because it's harder it's just harder content uh and so if they if they fall off early on I mean that's why we're hitting them hard in the early grades because if they fall off it's so hard to catch up it really is and so where Ela it's not so much it's also easier to move them when students are Advanced and they really all of a sudden things kick in it's easier to move them to a higher level than it is to math because they didn't have the foundation so now moving to a higher math they're missing things you know it's like it's almost like every year is a different totally a different subject you know it's geometry and then it's algebra and it's pre-calculus they're different um as well Ela is is English all the way through yeah there's almost like a compounding effect yeah it really is and we see it and that's why eth grade every year we almost go up like this in ela and every year we go down like this in math and eighth grade core being our lowest no the kids that have been struggling all the way through are definitely struggling in eighth grade just one more quick follow-up question uh not really related but the fiveyear district percentiles where there's Nas that's just not enough students to evaluate because sometimes we seem to go in and out of some of these categories where we have enough one year and it seems like it drops off or comes in out so is that is that am I reading that correctly it is but it and it also is from this if certain school districts didn't have enough or they data was embargoed for when this report was created they might not be in there because I was looking I'm like did we get more school districts for a couple of years in New Jersey how did that happen um but I don't think we did I think that just some school districts didn't have their data reported um and so they didn't pull all the didn't or they didn't have enough in that category so they weren't reporting that year um but I think that's the case great thank you very much questions uh um yeah I just have a couple observations uh the first one um uh I may butcher a bit so correct me if I say anything wrong but this is based on our conversations because I think there's always this idea that we're you know teaching to the test or you know there's always a lot of push back and you hear you know you know it's all based on this test and we've had I you allowed me to ask you a series of questions and um from from our conversation it sounded like as you said there really aren't any any surprises that a lot of these the the test scores in general seem to represent how how children are are doing in the school and um from that conversation it just it just became so apparent to me that um these numbers aren't uh simply you know on a spreadsheet for you but I think it's clear to all of us when we ask you questions like there's a a depth to it and I I can't quite put it into words but sometimes times numbers are used to like dehumanize and from my conversation with you it just felt like you were really understanding the the children and what was going on in the schools much more deeply through these numbers and it was just really impressive even in just a few of those conversations and uh it just left the lasting um imprint on me and I just wanted to um share that because I I I I think it's I think it's rare um and so thank you for that and thank you for all the work that you do and it's like you just yeah you aren't surprised by these questions you're not sort of caught off guard it's because it's not like you just studied the night before you're like in it living in these numbers that are are children so um uh the other observation I want to make was on the on the five-year uh District percentiles are um our special ed numbers are are pretty impressive um you know uh uh and you know we we talk a bit about this you know in a lot of different ways but I just to me that's just again sort of The Testament to what I've I found in our school district is that um time and time again it seems like everyone ask the question what can we do to help this student like that's what I keep hearing you know and I keep hearing in other schools and other districts sort of like let's see how much we can get away with let's hold back and I never hear that here and I think we're seeing the results of that like in these numbers that we do a really good job with every student or at least we try and and this is a very special group and and uh we seem to be doing uh very well with them so um that's uh it's it's nice to see I appreciate that and I tell you we do really do take those numbers like every one of those percents mean something because we know that's a certain number of children and we didn't exercise the in with the math in the middle school and the math team and we took we had pictures of each student with the right gender and the right racial makeup but not our actual students and we just cut them out like from the internet and we put them on the board that year that we had only 14 and we circled them and all of us just it w it hurt because we were like wow only 14 of our kids passed so the next year when we got to Circle 20 passed and this year we got to Circle 26 passed I mean it those are actual kidss you know and you're like you got five more it's just really does feel great and we just had our math articulation and one thing that really stood out was the other districts said we can't believe that you got 30% more than the state average how did you guys get 30% more than the state average in seventh grade and I'm like they're great teachers they really they just care you know so it does feel great and I appreciate that you acknowledge that because got a lot of great teachers working really hard so thank you uh thank you for all the data and the interpretation of it and usually I say I I deal with a lot of data and I say you start with questions data is just data it doesn't mean much until you ask a relevant question and dig into the data and ask what is the data telling us right I think that's what you've done really well um one of the things I noticed is I always thought why are we doing you know even in the past Year's presentations why are we doing bar Ela are we really is it just you know the way it comes out but even looking at uh Statewide it's impressive that there's something that we're doing right right this is you know is 540 some districts and something we're doing really right and and to learn from that and see what we can spread across right not just our schools but beyond um coming to the math math also I think uh uh not only is it that we have greens um and I see the most important question we asked I think when I joined the board three years ago is how is the co cohort going to do are they going to are they resilient are they going to bounce back I think I mean I have to dig into Data deeper but I think it shows maybe there is recovery uh in the covid uh cohorts that are coming through so I think that is very good and it's not without extra effort and that's where my question is going I know that you have attempted a lot of ways of tackling math different types of resources that we've tapped into do you have a feel for which one is helping more how how each of these resources are helping and how do we how do we embed what those resources are now maybe we we rely on some external um resources to to sort of uh either we subscribe or whatever is there a way to embed it into the regular curriculum right in terms of math this is specifically on the math questions well the number one thing that has or what has made the biggest impact has been the intense coaching I mean that that's been the the biggest increase that we've had when we did it in third and sixth they increased by 20 and 30% we did in seventh they increased by 20 and fourth 20 and 30% I'm really hoping that we're going to see that again in fifth and 8th so we can say it absolutely is the coaching uh so they meet every single week with Jen meets with every grade level every week I mean every team in those grades every week uh to work through through strategies and how to use the time and how to do the curriculum and and I think just having uh a magnifying glass and all those teachers working together constantly has been the biggest difference that's the biggest difference is it sustainable definitely it is sustainable it is next year all of the students that will be taking nsla none of them took it before covid so be they're all been working their way up since Co um the ones that are testing so all third through eighth graders are back since covid okay um so that will be interesting to see what I meant was is the intense coaching is the taking extra hours of our teachers and is the is the are the students have to come outside the class hours to get that coaching uh if so can is it possible to continue to do that kind of intensity the intense coaching is for the teachers so that's who so the coach meets with them intensely but we do have the tutoring in all the buildings and I do the high impact tutoring money is going to run out this year although I me you know I can I'm playing a little bit with Title One money for Leg view uh because I do think there are kids that just need to come and review and redo things they just need more time to go over that content that just even with two hours it's not enough you know they need a little extra time so coming in small groups I think it will help those students so that's kind of what Cliff is referring to right that you hit you're thinking about even the small group of students that they need more can we give those people more you know beyond and that's I think what we're trying to do thank you so Dr CIS again thank you for uh the presentation I think everyone's mostly hit on some of the the questions I had or the points I wanted to make venue specifically was asking about you know what what are the things that you think were the most effective that we can continue to lean into um I did have one question about science I think it's the one thing we haven't talked as much about tonight um what can we do there I mean you know we we have a lot of interventions in place and you know Ela and math but for to improve those science scores what what can we do so science is so our math and science are our goal this year and one thing we did was we purchased new curriculum that I think is a lot more content Laden but also has more assessments the students have got to have more assessments with this type like we're enjoying the Hands-On learning but if they don't they aren't given the problems that they're going to see down the road where they have to read something and manipulate M the materials to come up with a unique answer they're not going to be able to change those test scores really uh I I hope that the test I want to get on the state committee because I really want to share with them that I think that if we're having it if if we're having 14% across the state but yet we're graduating all of these students going to um science field with tons of AP classes and you know doing we're like top in the whole country high tech high is the top of the whole country how is it that make sense how does it make sense that only 14 are passing when you know that's not the case going forward um in reality that's one thing but for us we've just got to work through the new curriculum and them more time on actual content and actual assessment and that's one of those things it's not like I want to say focus on the nsla test but we do have to focus on assessment because we're not they're not performing well on the assessment I think they know way more than what what they are showing I mean our biology kids go straight into honors um in high school and honors chemistry or honors physics and some of them weren't are passing eighth grade science it's like H come on we know that they know this um so I think that's part of it is they're I don't know if they know how to take take that kind of assessment I also think we put more emphasis last year by doing that vocabulary the one thing we improved on in science is we had more kids go from meeting to exceeding we didn't have any more get into the overall meeting and exceeding together but we had movement from meeting to exceeding because I think some students that could weren't doing it we not taking the time but once it became this contest all of a sudden they were studying their vocabulary and really enjoyed doing the trivia um Jeopardy against the teachers and against the other school and so forth so we just tried to make it a little more fun because the kids who love that kind of stuff I expected them to do better than they were doing because they love it so why wouldn't they be showing that um so we do have work to do uh you know definitely have work to do in science but that's what I'm thinking this year that we're going to focus on is the assessment and more content thank you no no that was just going to say thanks for the context maybe a sighted but um you know I went to high school in India and for us the passing grade was 35 35 out of 100 was passing grade and if you get 60% it's called first class and 75% is honors and very rarely kids exceeded 75% right it's like maybe one in 60 exceeded 75% right so uh per se okay grades are what they are and it's relative but I see the science part in a 14% you know getting the meeting expectations but all of them doing well when they get to high school and and college that's yeah just one more quick question does mhrd use linkit yes can we look at the data Beyond just 8th grade in other words would would mhrd allow us to look at our student population and can link it somehow extrapolate that data to look into high school I mean obviously there's a end point there when we start talking about you know 12th grade but I'd be super interested to see that data even further out um just I don't know we we talked about I know there anecdotally and not just anecdotally but we know our students do well but I'd love to see how well they're doing yes I agree I can certainly ask because it's going to be the extrapolation that's the problem just because I don't know if they track them much after ninth grade you know we the first meeting we kind of hear how did Denville kids do but after that we really don't hear about it again uh but I can ask them we share our data with them so uh you know we we do share it with them so they can see kids coming into to them this is where they're at and that link of data I don't know how they have this formula and they're pretty spoton that we take those benchmarks somehow it works out they were almost exactly of who was predicted to pass meeting and exceeding and actually who did and it's not a formula we can't even figure out the formula because we Jen and I try it all different ways we're like how does it how do they do that because the formula doesn't seem to work but somehow it does with them but I will I'll check in that mic Dr call want to uh on behalf of the board uh communicate to you uh how extremely grateful we are one for the presentation but also for the hard work that you and your staff has has done um you you talk about the I I remember this presentation for over the past two years and we were looking at the math scores and and we were uh and you were saying um of all the things that you were doing and and it sort of reminds me right it's it's you're not only um you know like in today's society we want instant gratification and I think what you were imparting on us is that this is going to take some time we need to set the foundation we need to set the the um the goals and and and train the teachers you know like the Intensive coaching and everything else and I think you know from my perspective I I see the results and I I couldn't be more happier I mean I was looking through the math curriculum the other day from the Imp committee minutes I mean it was like a 584 page uh curriculum I'm like wow textbook so so yeah it it clearly um there's a lot of work that goes into this and and we have to be patient right and I'm sure that the science will be something similar uh once you set your mind to it I feel like you know you'll be laying the groundwork for that as well so uh extremely grateful and I think the other thing that we're seeing is that the culture that you're that you're cultivating as well right so you know just the fractions examples which to me it makes sense if it's it's something that's a harder Topic start it sooner which makes a lot more sense and it sounds like you and your staff and your team has uh you know come to that conclusion and we're able to implement that so again I U want to uh communicate how extremely grateful we are for this so thank you thank you I appreciate the time I know this is the longest meeting that we do but I know it's important um to really talk about this because this is why we're all here so thank you for giving me this much time uh and thank you for continuing to support us in all the aspect everything on there is support of the board we wouldn't be able to do this without that so thank you one other point thankk you again um Sandy and I speak about this at length on um what makes us special too and I wanted to say thank you to the board for really promot supporting us in doing some of the things that we do in our district because we don't want we don't want to give up some of those things that may translate into a better test score but to give up some of oural things like let's think about the big Veterans Day things have going on when when we did our strategic plan people were talking about Civics and those kinds of things and here's here's a program that that we really don't want to give up and maybe that would give us a little more instructional time and things like that but we've sat down and had these conversations a few times that that we're special and for other things too and we don't want to lose that even if it even if it may possibly translate into a higher score on something but it would reduce some of the other things we do so we we both talk about that we both want to thank you for the support to allow us to continue to do those things and keep this place special as it is now definitely agree Dr Forte thank you so okay moving on with the agenda um Dr for when you're ready superintendent comments please okay so a Val view sports update the girls cross country team came in second in their County group the boys soccer team had a record of 56-2 and won a playoff game and the girls soccer team is 9 and3 still alive and playing in the second round of the tournament this week we have our Veterans Day Celebrations coming up on November 6th at 9:30 a.m at Lake View where the New Jersey State Police flyover if you're around it' be great thing to see um at Valley View on on the 11 on November 11th at 8:30 and at Riverview also on November 11th at 9:30 um Betsy Ginsburg the director of the Garden State Coalition of schools which we've been a member for the last few years has asked me to testify on behalf of on behalf half of the Garden State Coalition on school security and mental health um my testimony is in this document if you ever want to click on it it's already I I'll email it to everybody though um it'll be this Friday it's virtual it's to the Joint assembly and Senate education committee the New Jersey joint assembly uh committee and I have done that once before so it's the second time on a on the same topic so I was looking forward to that um all right so election day next week is going to be a challenge here because you should have seen it out there today and this is not even election day yet so just want to let you know we are going to work with the township on on trying to accommodate the public by moving some Vehicles out of the the main parking lot the municipal building into Riverview and into the annex so you might see something a little different if you come on Election Day there'll be cars most likely in the uh on the black top behind the annex and we're going to have extra police and people walking around and I put my I cleared up my calendar the whole day just to be around to make sure I'm in the area as well and that's my comments thank you Dr Forte Dr CIS assisting superintendent comments please uh no report today thank you Miss Kowski business administrator comments I just want to thank the board of education office staff for the wonderful job and all the work hard work that they did for the audit and working with the Auditors from the beginning of July through mid-september they really work hard to ensure that we had a clean audit and I want to commend them thank you great thank you okay we'll go ahead and open it up for public discussion or public comment um we are going to open it up at 8:33 p.m. if you are in the public uh and you wish to make comments please come up to the mic with uh your name and address and um go ahead and ask your questions or make statements okay seeing no one online and seeing no one come to the microphone we'll go ahead and close com ments at 8:33 p.m. and we'll move on with the agenda Mr Capello can you take us through old business action to be taken I'd be happy to if there are no objections under old business I would like to move items a b and c a are the uh treasur of school money and board secretary reports from September 2024 B are education reports report of student enrollment report of the health office from September 2024 the approved the 2024 Denville public schools NJ qac District performance Rie uh number four approve Hib VV 2024 25-1 and finally C uh the work session and executive session meeting minutes from September 9th and our regular session and executive session meeting minutes from September 23rd I'll second thank you questions or comments roll call please Dr Moore yes Dr Aruna deason yes Mr Cass yes Mr Anderson yes Mr Capello yes Mr Kim yes all right and personel Dr arunas if you can take us through that section please certainly there is no objection I'd like to move the following items um section uh A1 um we have uh new hires resignations retirements leaves extra pay salaries and adjust ments and there are items um a through L and I have in addendum m and n and uh want to call attention to um item number um yeah e uh which is uh receiving promising practices award from from character.org for Miss sople and Mr SC and um in addition to that um there are uh couple of uh there's a resignation um and I would like to thank Miss handle for her service and moving on to the next um items number two 3 4 five six are all um for Family Leave Act or FMLA and item number seven is for unpaid leave and um item number eight is a job description and item number nine uh is also related to leaves and item number 10 is uh for new hires um for uh uh two one is Matthew Mr Matthew casaba and Miss Jennifer Barbosa I'll second thank you any questions or comments roll call please de deore yes Dr Aruna tasson yes Mr Cass yes Mr Anderson yes Mr Capello yes Mr Kim yes all right Dr Moore if you can take us through the next section in uh sure I'd like to move the following resolutions under instruction and program under item number one a through M series of um conferences and workshops uh number two is to approve uh Dr Howard boow orthodontist in Denville to provide information about orthodontic health for the students in uh Riverview and Lake View uh number three is to approve the attached list of field trips uh number four is approving the revised math curriculum uh number five is to approve the two attached surveys for Valley views application for National School of character and number six is to approve a student from Monclair University to complete three semesters of counseling internship in dville schools J January 2025 to May 2026 I'll second thank you questions or comments roll call please Dr Moore yes Dr Aruna jassen yes Mr Cass yes Mr Anderson yes Mr Capello yes Mr Kim yes uh Mr Capello if you can take us through governance if you don't mind uh I'd be happy to if there are no objections under uh governance policy revisions um I move for first reading policy 1240 policy 214 5.06 policy 22610 po policy 8506 policy 9713 policy 5305 policy 0164 policy 0155 and policy 0151 second thank you questions or comments roll call please Moore yes Dr arunas yes Mr Cass yes Mr Anderson yes Mr Capello yes Mr Kim yes Mr Anderson uh Finance if you will please sure if there's no objections I'd like to move under D Finance item number one which is our checklist item number two is uh approving the uh comprehensive financial report with the audit report that we just received uh verbally earlier item number three is the board to approve the attached 20 25 2026 budget calendar item number four is the board to approve the following title three expenditures for Consortium members to be funded through title three funds item number five is for the board to uh retroactively approve the attached agreement with the uncommon thread to provide trained behavioral technician services for the 2024 2025 school year beginning 10224 at an amount not to exceed $68,400 item number six is resolution awarding contract to Arctic Wolf Security package licenses that's it I'll second thank you questions or comments roll call please deore yes Dr Aruna jassan yes Mr Cass no on the milk fund yes and everything else Mr Anderson yes Mr Capello yes Mr Kim yes Mr Cass operations please if you will going to start with Transportation item number one I'm going to ask the board to approve the demo Public Works mechanics to assist a demal board of education as needed for the 2024 2025 school year at a rate of $434 per hour and also I'm going to ask the board in item 1.2 to retroactively approve the following School Bus emergency evacuation drill reports we have Lake View school on October 4th 2024 at 9:00 am. River viw was done October 1st 2024 at 9:00 am. and Valley View was done September 19th 2024 at 900 a.m. under buildings and grounds I'm going to ask the board to approve the following resolution for participation the sustainable Jersey for school certific ation program um we have a lot of items in this resolution I'm going to uh highlight some of the important features of of the 11 um starting with number one that the demo Board of Education seeks to participate in sustainable Jersey for schools to focus attention and efforts on matters of sustainability and pursue initiatives that will lead to sustainable Jersey for school certification item two I'm asking for support we asking for the the Board of Ed and district superintendent to support and work with school staff and administrators school and parents to ensure a safe and healthy environment for students by encouraging the school Community to implement sustainable energy smart echo-friendly and costeffective solutions item three is to teach students about ecological economical social sustainability environmental health and nutrition Etc four is to use resources more efficiently to reduce reuse and recycle to the Green Building standards for construction and major Renovations number five use resources wisely number six we commit to the continuation of the sustainability leadership team also referred to as the Green Team based on the guidance of sustainable Jersey for schools and we go down to number 10 here our superintendent Dr Steven deforte is going to be the District leaan of sustainable Jersey for schools uh item 11 we agree to complete the district actions and to support the district schools in completing their actions 2.2 as we do every year I'm asking the board to approve for the use of the valy wrestling mat for Morris NOS holiday wrestling tournament on December 20th through the 23rd and item 2.3 I'm asking the board to approve the attached quotes from TMM Building Solutions LLC for snow plowing services for the 2024 2025 school year year in the amount of $185 per hour at Valley viw Middle School and Riverview Elementary School I'll second thank you questions or comments I had a question on on on 2.3 with the um excuse me on the U snow plowing I know we've had shared services with the town occasionally depending uh you know how bad the storm is and everything um and it's just at uh two school so our we're anticipating our snow plowing could not keep or you know our our people could not plow the snow with our trucks without getting additional help on waiting in the wings if needed this resolution is is only just to be proactive uh in our practices we have a few uh staff who will be out on leave and we want to make sure that we will have coverage in case of a big sto storm good idea so can I just ask a follow-up question to that so I noticed only two of our buildings so we're we feel like we'll be okay with the other and is this is this something we would call on if we needed or is this something we're going to do every time we have plowable snow uh we definitely needed a one of the school the other school is as needed because we'll be short one staff and one the third school is is okay we'll have enough stuff to cover that school got got it thank you okay roll call please D deore yes Dr Aruna datass yes Mr Cass yes Mr Anderson yes Mr Capello yes Mr Kim yes all right uh next on the agenda is a good of the cause committee reports correspondent and discussion items uh Dr for do you have some board meeting highlights that we should share yes I will I will read you what I did so far I have the order to gave a stellar report of our financial management for 2324 Dr C is presented on the district test scores the power point will be posted online and the Board of Education discuss class sizes and instructional space that's the one that we haven't done yet but I'm assuming we're going to have some kind of conversation about that perfect uh if there's anything else that a board member would like to add um let us know otherwise we'll Dive Right into uh any conversations yeah I just wanted to give a quick update I went to the Riverview PTA meeting as leaan a great bunch of people that I see at these meetings working very hard for our students and um just a couple of highlights um which um I think are very important they're starting a book club focusing on the mental health initiative which is something that we talk about a lot these days so that's a uh a good thing um they talked about all their uh fundraising efforts the book fair the fundr Run Etc and they've done very very well with their fundraising a lot of generous support to those uh initiatives um they're also going to be doing bul planting for the spring and um the playground they're looking on doing some enhancements there with uh more swings Etc and they're always thinking things to make the school more welcoming and Visually it's a happy happy look to it so uh got a fish tank and um and they're you know thinking out of the box on more kids stuff there for the for the school so they're up and running and doing a great job for the upcoming school year great thank you Mr Cass uh yeah so at our uh imp meeting we we talked a little bit more about the space uh considerations this was due in part to uh Mr Anderson uh you know bringing up the question of whether um our policy really reflected the uh strategic planning goals and it was it was on my um list of discussions as well because part of uh I guess my concerns are are threefold the the first one is the one that uh Mr Anderson raised the the other one is that you know if if sort of our policy is is to um wait till things get overcrowded before we we do anything um you're talking about a number of years then uh before we can actually do something about it with a building that's a lot of of years of kids that are going to be uh in conditions that we don't really think are are optimal or good um and and the other part of the strategy that concerns me is that if if if the message to the community is that you know things are fine we're monitoring the numbers we're okay and then all of a sudden things aren't okay um that's kind of a hard question then than to answer and I know some of the feeling on on on the board was that you know if we try to do this maybe there isn't enough sort of pain for it but you know my thinking is I I just don't know if that's our call like I feel like I would rather do the right thing and you know have the town decide and then it's on them if they don't want to do the right thing then then then it's on them you know I said in the meeting you know you know go go yell at your neighbor for not not making the the correct vote but um trying to anticipate whether or not you know they would do something that that that's that that's right for the town you know I I don't know that that's something that I feel comfortable like choosing for them um so those were some of my thoughts and then we decided that um we should bring it to the the board as a whole to kind of discuss a little further and I would be o I am going to organize a tour uh for class sizes we discussed if you guys anybody wants to come just let me know so that you can see what it looks like and feels like because maybe 23 on paper looks and feels differently or maybe if you went to the classroom you realize there's only 16 actually in those classes what that feels like um I'd be happy to to take anybody who would like to go we talked at the last building and grounds meeting the operations committee Finance all of us um about looking to uh an update to our demographic study and we discussed the riview annex there's room four empty classrooms on the top floor and we don't need them yet when will we need them I don't think anybody really knows so I think it costs money but but I think we need to find out and it's probably said that needs to be updated every U maybe one or two years of of how the student population is going and your right has come out you don't do an exp you know expansion of a school overnight takes a lot of time for the financing and getting it done and and if you needed a new school it's the same thing it's going to take a long time to get a thumb but I got to be convinced that we need either an expansion or a new school before you know I would approve it and you got to see the data you got to see some reliable data and I point to Jefferson up there who did get impacted by some lack of State funding but they they had to close a school but obviously they had the room in the other schools to accommodate those children and uh resource that other school for something else so the last thing you want to have is like an empty school that you can't use in another 10 years so I I think and that Dr grip study was really good I mean we finally after all these years we finally got somebody that knew what they were doing and gave us some real good information and then when we compared it with the actual numbers it was right on the money you know even if he was a couple percent off you you take that so I just think that's money well spent keep up with the demographic studies even if you get like a an a bridge version to know what the Count's going to be and also if we could you know take a look at you know where they're going to be placed you know it' be great if you'd have a crystal ball there would tell you if those classrooms on the anex get filled up on the second floor you know what grades are they going to be how many kids you going to have in each classroom is it still have the low student counts like everybody wanted from the Strategic plan or we going to be at the maximum so I think you got to have some some hard facts before we start making decisions can I point you guys to the board docks today scroll to the bottom where it's yellow there's three documents posted there you can take a look at them the first one is our um Dr grip proposal for the updated study I put uh I did a little spreadsheet to tell you the cost so you'd have an idea what the costs in yellow on that dock on line 18 if you click on that is the actual proposal but the proposal numbers came right from uh the numbers in the spreadsheet are the same numbers from the um from The Proposal so that's document one document two is the class side policy and document three is our enrollment and if you look at the enrollment doc I inserted some new information on in column J through n so this is the most recent one that you're already voting on tonight or already have voted on um anything with yellow is either at the district maximum remember recommended maximum not it's not it's not a hard line it's a recommended maximum according to our policy either at the maximum or over so in one Elementary School class at Lake View we have we have um right at the number of 23 and remember some of the kids come out for services and things like that so it's not like they're there the whole time either and then I took all classes at at Valley View that were not fed I didn't I didn't include fed any classes in Valley View that were 25 over and I inserted that there on the right just to keep an eye on that and um 29 is the maximum um recommended maximum and you could see that we do have four three classes at the maximum and one over the maximum at Valley View so this is some of the data that you have to work with to see where we're at and what we need to do um and I think it'll help us with the conversation um I'll let I'll I'll let other board members ask some questions or make some comments but I wanted to follow up with uh What uh Mr Cass and what Dr Moore had um said uh Dr Cass I definitely agree from Dr grips demographic study uh we should re-evaluate when we should be uh asking him or um having or enlisting him to redo that study uh we have a new price quote and uh and it looks like uh you know it seems in line with what we paid last time I mean it is definitely more but I think there's more bells and whistles that we might be asking for so uh that's definitely a conversation that we should be having uh but Dr Moore I wanted to ask you what you meant by leaving it for the public um you are you saying that um if we want to change the class-size policy we should get more input from the public or um I'm I'm just want to get clarification on that well so the the the um the discussion at the Imp meeting is that if we if we change the policy that may drastically change when we need to think about a referendum because it's going to start pushing things around am I fair in saying that Steve yeah in other words it came up that maybe the current policy we have now isn't really in line with what the Strategic plan is saying I believe that's was your comments right Mike so if that's the case everything we've planned on is using that data so if like using those numbers so if if we want to lower those numbers and make that like a lower bar I mean well I guess it's a higher bar but it's a lower number if we want to do that that does change it might it might change you know the planning down the road because right now we feel very confident that we can accommodate students in our school RS right now without doing anything and then we feel like we can add to the second floor review Annex and keep moving more more kids over from the lake view side to the Riverview side that's our game plan right now and I think what what Dr Moore is saying is Maybe I'm Wrong so maybe I don't even want to I was thinking you're saying if we want to do this we go out to the public with a vote for for funding to see if they want to you know uh back that yeah in other words since since the S the conversations are kind of sandwiched together the idea was you know we you know that that it has to become painful enough right which would sort of be the opposite of lowering our our class size numbers and and all this we'd want to um so but I I'm questioning that line of thought that in order to go to referendum you know you know we have to be assured that it's painful enough for them to vote on it just I don't know that that's our call you know like I think in the end we present what the right thing to do is and let um that the public decide whether they want to go along with that and so that's kind of but they they're kind of close to each other because if we're moving this timeline along then we are you know beginning to think more about the possibility not necessarily but the possibility of a referendum and and moving away from the idea of let's just let these these classes get really big and cause a problem for parents and then they're going to then they're going to vote it's more like you know are we doing the right thing here so I think they they're tied together in a way in terms of the philosophy behind the decisions if if I if that's clear yeah so I I see what you're thinking I think that's like four steps down the road I think we should start with just like we said like let's just all I'm asking is let's look at that policy and feel like we as a board do we feel it's appropriate right I think that's step number one and if we say hey this policy we feel like these numbers are good then we already have an answer to the you know step you know the the question if we say hey we think that these numbers need to be adjusted then we need to REO Reb back go back and look at what Mr Kim had worked with the committee on to kind of put together that's question number one Dr grip study I don't think there's a question on in my mind personally as one of seven I say let's go do it and let's also talk to him about what this looks like on an annual basis there's just too much going on that we can't see this in a sequential order every year same presentation we can then look at the data to be able to draw conclusions right now me trying to go back the reason why I even felt like we needed it was when I went back and looked I'm like well we got this one piece of data and you know listen we could all like I was part of that decision too to say hey don't spend the $330,000 can we spend 5,000 to just get this one set of data I think we're in it right now we drive around town we see the developments going up we've now got to get to the point of an annual basis so to me they're two separate subjects that eventually at some point kind of collide together but I think start with those two very simple I'll say kind of uh tasks and I think then we'll start getting more data to be able to move forward I think that's my opinion yeah and and that that's a that's a fair point I think um there's just a slight bit of urgency if if we're already kind of meeting some of these class sizes already the tops if we change the policy we may have to start you know pushing things along a little further in terms of you know even the use of the annex and that sort of thing and um uh so I you know that's kind of why they're in my mind they're kind of dovetailed together and it felt like in the Imp meeting we were kind of like you know going in that direction but so so one way I want to uh sort of propose a question and maybe change this perspective and it's in line uh with Mike what your thought process was during the last meeting was if we were are our class sizes optimized now so so Dr Cullis made a great presentation today of showing improvement in our test scores and now my question is are we seeing these Improv because these class sizes are already smaller and and obviously we're talking about the Elementary grades right we're not talking about the middle school grades because the middle school grades uh or classes will have specialized classes that need to exceed a certain number as you showed in one of our spreadsheets so in our Elementary classes are we uh as Dr Moore had suggested are we already close to the limit of our policy uh class sizes for the elementary schools and are we also seeing improvement in our test scor so so in a way the teachers are working um through the challenges even with a higher class size to still improve our test score so um or will the teachers be able to improve the test scores and the and um and the students education by reducing the class sizes so that we maybe artificially reduce the PO uh change the policy to have a lower class size which is what the Strategic plan um uh was uh hoping for and are we going to see even further improvement in our students and our children's education so Dr cus I'm curious to know sort what your thoughts are with the question that I'm proposing right now well we don't have any Elementary classes that are near 26 um in the three through five like the older kids I mean the biggest classes we have are 23 the and the one that Dr Forte has highlighted it's I mean the reason that has more students in the other classes is because it pulls students in for specials but not necessarily for academics so they may have that many in a special but they wouldn't have it in their regular academic day so the question I think from the Strategic plan I don't think they really are thinking about third fourth and fifth I think they're thinking about kindergarten I think when the parents are are commenting are they do the is 20 too many for kindergarten or 22 for kindergarten I don't think that they're thinking that 203 for a fourth or fifth grade class is too many because I mean that's probably a reasonable they have five groups of you know or six groups of four something like that uh I don't think they're thinking that I think they're thinking kindergarten they're asking you know kindergarten first grade are those too high because Lake View tends to be right at that 21 22 even after moving 10 over this year to Riverview so if you look at the comparison of Riverview to Lake View so just we're all 18 before August 30th they were all about 18 and then we get a bunch of them right at the end in Lake View every year right there so that to me suggests that um if we just took a snapshot of just kindergarten first grade right that we're pushing up against the policy class sizes now already and if Dr grip's demographic study continues to show that we'll have more and more projected students in our district um there's a high probability and we can ask that with Dr grip there's a high probability that they be kindergarteners and first graders so um yeah without even having to change the policy we're we're already going to have some challenges and so I guess yeah what do we do next and then the on the flip side um the other question that came up in the debate was how long do we have the annex for do how long as a district do we want to keep that Annex for uh which is a question that we didn't really toy around with but you know yeah that I think becomes another variable into this conversation that we're they're having that should then push us in a direction that we should now start having another conversation which is what I think Dr Moore and Mr Anderson were alluding to so I think bringing up the annex brings up a a point that we have to really think hard about the idea of an addition we're never going to have an addition to size of the annex anywhere right so I I just don't see that as an option I gave you a spreadsheet that showed the cost comparison between buying something the size of it anx and renting the size over 20 years but that was again with lower interest rates of around 3% I think they're more in the six six to six 65% that's significant difference when I did it though it really did show that the rental paid off obviously when the 20 years is up you don't have anything like you got another 20 year release and and personally I don't see it as a real permanent solution it would be a great solution for a bubble like if you're going through a bubble and you need it for 20 years and then you don't need anymore that's a great solution um but I really don't I know we keep talking about additions and I just don't see us being able to put an addition that big anywhere right so so I think it's really not going to be an addition it's going to either be continue the use of the annex or build a school somewhere else that takes the place of the NX and covers all the other needs we have at the same time that's that's what I see as a viable option um not that we couldn't build an addition it's just not going to be that big you know I mean the back of Riverview it's a flood zone right so we could build it on sths but it's going to cover like the whole field pretty much the front here we did the math a little bit maybe we could put like eight rooms but you can't it's not the size of of the annex so just giving you guys an idea of you know to think about why we're why we're having these conversations well that' be something you put on the to-do list with the committee like we doing with the uh the bus garage right we took a couple of things off the table and we think out of the boxes some of them just not practical but how how many classrooms could you you get cost money the architect to put something together how many classrooms could we add on to whereever you you know including the four the four we did it before it was it was only going to be like four in the back and then dearis and I just without hiring somebody to do it we used Google Maps and we walked out there if we did a twostory Edition in front you're talking about maybe eight classrooms you know there's 16 across the street so like that's it's going to be difficult to uh it's not going to replace the annex exactly because you already you have the four on top and I don't think anybody in the room would want to go spend money on a building and still be renting a space right I I think if we're going to do that we're gonna we're going to get rid of the rent space I I believe the other thing you have to remember too is that an addition requires significant displacement from current students that are at those schools so I mean I think we're talking way far ahead now at some point I think really right now we've got to look at two things which is class size what we feel is appropriate and Dr grip updating his study to understand where we're going to be and that's five years out right like to Dr Forte's point I mean we can talk future as to what it is but you know I mean financially in my opinion the data showed no reason to go build a school right now over renting that space unless you know which I don't know how you would know that we're g to have this need for the next 50 years right because if you look at the historical data it's like this right it's a roller coaster up and down so I mean if we could ride that building out for 20 years and that gets us through it I'd be happy as can be if in 20 years they go oh my gosh we've got to build a new school or even 10 years down the road this is continuing to go up great then let then they should go do it um but right now from what I see if we can get through that building if this fiveyear projection we can only look out five years that's the reality right I mean we don't have the ability to look any further out than that so I I think if we start from the basics let's make sure class size policy is appropriate because I heard that feedback at the strategic planning that they like the smaller class sizes that that was something that they really um you know liked so and if we come back saying the policy we feel is appropriate I'm perfectly fine with that I'm not trying to direct that I just want to make sure we're looking at it because everything we did or doc uh Mr Kim did with the committee was based upon those numbers so if those numbers are not what we all feel is appropriate then we need to go back and redo that it's not extremely hard because it's just a formula right to look at but I just want to make sure we look at it that way and I I would you know love to hear from Dr grip as to kind of what whether his projections are still the same um that the developments aren't any different or basically aren't different than what he had already seen But just to double check and make sure births and all that kind of stuff that he looks at he does a phenomenal job so that's where I would start from and then I think let's look at that data and understand what our next steps might be uh one thing to remember though um when he did the last one there were only two of the developments were settled so he didn't include them in the figures so all all of them are now settled meaning they all have like permits and they're ready to go so we'll he'll be able to include that in the in the information I think he redid a couple pages right and but he may not have known the exact like bedroom breakdown and things like that so yeah good point I think that he'll have some more data and you know I know we're looking at the next round but I don't believe that that's really even on the docket yet I think right now we're just looking at kind of the current five or so that are being built what what about the next yeah what about the next round of affordable housing we don't have any kind of information on that right now we don't we have there's some basic numbers that have been thrown out from the state but that number is not finalized yet that's my understanding is that the town is still has the ability to go back to the state and say they don't agree with that number which I'm suspecting they will my understanding is that number was somewhere north of 400 affordable units the initial state number um that was just based upon data I had seen in the newspaper so um but I believe this the town has until January I believe to go back to them and then they'll come back and give them a final number that's I believe the new process but everything's brand new don't quote me on that um but and then once that happens then they start the process I mean it took almost five years for them to get all these developments kind of figured out and and really start kind of permits and and Zoning changes and everything so I don't I mean things could happen faster but you know there's there's a lot and don't forget too the loss of St Francis changes some of the formulas too for the town because that was senior housing that was giving us credits so now you loss of that I don't I don't know exactly how it affects it but I think it does right so there's all these pieces that come in does that give the town the ability to then push some senior housing that would help us out with credits someplace else I'm not sure right so these are all things I don't know about but I don't believe to answer your question Mr Kim there's my understanding is I'm sure behind closed doors maybe but in the public I've heard nothing about any property or development or anything Dr Forte I know you've got a close relationship with the town too on this have you heard anything different than that no not really I know the town's in a lawsuit too uh with a with it's like 10 other District other towns or something that are fighting this so I'm sure that's going to have to play itself out that's going to be a while so it's sounds like there's good support for updating Dr grip's plan and just to put it in perspective by the time we start this we'll be using 2025 data and this was done with 2021 data so it's it's not like it's like a year or two old it's it's it's ready maybe it's a year earlier than than we normally would but I think it's okay to do it so I'm gonna add it to the agenda for the next meeting and then we'll get moving on it yes please do uh yeah just to um uh a question and then a restating of the obvious so or I'll start with the restating of the obvious so it's just that like oh that was um you know if if we alter that um class size you know for say just the two three four and five so instead of 26 we say that that's not acceptable and drop it down that significantly changes that whole comfort zone that we had from the space committee and it doesn't necessarily mean we have to go to referendum but it certainly means we may be scrambling a bit more so I think you know you know what I was hearing at the Imp committee and I'm feeling now is that there may be more of an urgency to to resolve this you know if we sort of dally around with it and then a year or so later we're talking about um changing the policy it could put us in a really bad position because now we're now we don't know what to do um so which leads me to my question is is in terms of the the policy itself do you want the um IM P committee to come up with a recommendation is this something we should be talking about Al together how do you want to how do you want to go about it I think it's a great idea that we come up with what's the ideal count per class and Dr cers talked about you know how the kindergarten did you get to the point where just too many kids and I know this firstand from running my munchkin division you know four year olds primarily there I you need a lot of help so you probably have different different sizes for different grades so committee come up with that we'll take a look at that and it'll certainly help us decide our our space needs with the uh population going up yeah what if we artificially just went through or not artificially hypothetically went through a number like if we did K1 um K And1 dropped it down to 20 and two through five dropped it to 23 if we went went through that exercise what would we have to do uh because it would uh it would affect you know Dr Cullis and and the staff there will have there'll be a finance and a budgetary impact as well and then once we have Dr grip's numbers then we could do that special assessment again as uh on top of that so you know I I can ask we could definitely ask imp to come up with a ideal number but in absence of because there might be so many different variables there so many different puts that say okay well uh if we drop it to 22 what does it mean 21 20 you know so if we just pick some hypothetical numbers some numbers you know maybe we can uh run through that exercise by just uh picking uh some specialized numbers or something so so I have it on the agenda for the next imp meeting which should be in November and at that time we'll decide whether or not these numbers need to be changed a recommendation will come from the committee to see if the policy needs to be updated yeah I'm sure that the uh all these government agencies that are M with education there must be some best practices out there what the recommendation would be for an ideal count for kindergarten classrooms and maybe it varies uh depending on the uh the demographics in a particular District particular part of the state know irban versus rule versus Suburbia um but I I I think there's got to be some numbers out there that could we use as a uh this information not necessarily we have to follow them any any other board members that wish to make a comment sure um go ahead just a a couple of uh good of the cause comments first of all Denville Education Foundation held their GF outing Tricky Tray and um auction last week um they ra raised uh just about $20,000 so thank you to uh the community and everyone who supported that um they are having a uh motherson uh G sorry bowling laser tag coming up so check out their website uh for anybody interested um uh one thing uh Dr Forte mentioned earlier was just you know uh after Dr cis's uh presentation was just you know kind of thanking the board for uh the uh support I I would also thank the administration for always making sure that every dollar we give towards uh academics which are the most important thing in the district that that they're doing it in effective manner I think I I feel very comfortable that we don't spend things that we don't need to and you're always finding ways to get creative there so I appreciate I was just thinking that when Dr Forte mentioned that um and then the final thing that came to mind we were talking about election day was um just a quick snapshot that about 10 years ago we moved the election day polling out of the schools and thank goodness we did that for security and I can't imagine we probably potentially would have had to consider closing schools this upcoming election day just due to the potential volume of uh voters but just I know Dr Forte was involved with that when he first came over and it was big push the mayor Andes was uh very supportive of it so um what what a what a great accomplishment I know it's 10 years ago but just a snapshot that that still happens in other school districts that they have election day in the schools great thank you uh any other board members okay uh moving on to the agenda we'll go ahead and open it up for public comments at 919 p.m. if you wish to make a comment or ask a question please feel feel free to come up to the microphone and state your name and address uh and if you're online uh please type in your name and address in the chat box seeing no one online and seeing uh no one come up to the microphone here we'll go ahead and close it at 9:119 p.m. uh there is a need for executive session so Dr Moore can you take us through executive please so I'd like to convene a executive session in accordance with Section 8 of the open public meetings act the purpose of this closed session will be to discuss negotiations legal security and Personnel issues minutes of this session will be made available to the public when the need for confidentiality no longer exists I'll second thank you all in favor hi hi any needs abstentions okay for the public we will be uh adjourning after the executive session so there will be no further voting so thank you and have a good evening we are an executive at 9:20 P.M