##VIDEO ID:3qxuJsq0StE## e e all right good evening everyone we are going to call this workshop for chapter 6 and the design manual to order all right I'm just winging it here so we'll call it the order Pledge of Allegiance everyone please stand Council woman NE with the pledge all right well thank you for everyone who wanted to join in person or online we appreciate your input and oh there's going to be a lot of input all right up next is going to be public comments so if anyone's here from the general public and want to make comments this is your time to do so [Laughter] all right good evening mayor and few councilmen good to see you tonight Jim Wood 3790 Misty way thank you for taking time tonight to advance the LDC closer to adoption my singular desire at this point is to get the LDC approved and lock down the give us a five-legged stool the comp plan Land Development code the zoning map The Flume and the design manual we'll be one of the few communities that has all those things updated at one time our main goals were language that is easier to understand organization and format that provide conciseness Clarity and ease of use and consolidation of subjects in singular locations and combining portions were applicable like getting rid of some zoning areas which we've done I believe we've done all three of these things however no plan is perfect and based on reality once adopted we may run into issues our five stool is a living breathing document so updates are expected no one can presuppose every eventuality or foresee every issue as much as we try to ask the wood have questions to determine unended consequences unfortunately until final adoption we may never see some of the things that might be in the plan so if nobody asked to use something we never May ever see it there there's anything wrong so we'll see I urge you to keep the process moving a good plan Now is better than a perfect plan later on frankly the heavy listing was done a few years ago when we got rid of the tearing system in lower building Heights to include put some of that in our city Charter so please listen attentively tonight as our staff most astutely led by tin aider Steve oconor Dan Butler and our city engineer Ryan Scott provide you an update on article six in the design manual and oh by the way do not forget that Mr Scott is leaving at the end of the month this is his last chance to get updates get him put back into the plan before he hits the eject button and goes and does something else so please take advantage of that and I appreciate your time thank you awesome thank you so much Mr wood all right seeing no further public comments I'll close the public comments and steo floor is yours all right good evening mayor council members um again just want to thank you um for the effort that you all have put in the support that you've put into this um as we are here because of that um I I think I briefly stated at the last one there are many communities out there that start this process and never end it um or they they just get so tired of it um and are too scared to change um that they don't even follow through so the fact that we're here tonight again um at a workshop giving you the second article um article six General development regulations and the design manual the supplemental design manual that goes along with that um is another step towards um getting this finalized um but before I do start I do want to introduce two um individuals um real quick in the back um we have Ashley Dominguez she is a new planner that started this week or I'm sorry last week and then you all may or may not know Sher Bernie um she was promoted to planner uh from the BTR clerk position so congratulations and welcome welcome so they're now on the team um so the planning the planning team did double in size last week all right um so let's get right to it article six uh we're going to discuss what's in it we're going to talk about some of the major changes and then um what's the design manual uh and then and then some of the topics that we had discussed with previous boards and committees uh concerning these sorts of uh discussions so right now a majority of article six is made made up of article 8 Transportation article 10 infrastructure Article 15 levels of service um and then they're just elements all throughout the rest of the LDC such as the landscape regulations buffer regulations um and then parking regulations from article 8 that are all put into this one site design article okay uh and we'll get to we'll get to here in a minute how how this article or how the design man will supplements this article uh because of the what and the how So currently as we have stated the current LDC it's difficult to read it's it's hard to get through it's not very well organized um therefore it's hard for staff to enforce um when you've got three different regulations not um together um and and you have to go searching for them or you miss it all together so reorganizing ing that um rewriting the language uh makes it easier for interpretation um consistent interpretation and then also makes it easier not only for staff to read but yall for residents and developers as well the format is a significant deviation from what we currently have um there are a lot of paragraphs big paragraphs in the current LDC that don't even have a section reference to it which makes it very difficult to say hey well okay this regulation is in this section um but you know it's it's this section but it's this paragraph right and there's no there's no paragraph one paragraph two in it um so that that's a big difficulty we're relying more on charts and Graphics um and especially with the design manual organ organization and consolidation again getting back to that things are here things are there things are everywhere uh man that that's that's the current reality that we live in this article takes all those site development requirements and puts it in one spot for developer to go run through hey what do I need to do for sewer what do I need to do for water what do I need to do for access to the property um how do I screen my mechanical equipment how do I what what Landscaping elements do I need to add right so all of that gets put in into this one article this is a a run through of the various public workshops and LPA meetings that we did um as you can see 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 nine I believe eight or nine um if my eyes serve me right um so we did do quite a thorough review and discussion with all the Committees and Boards um that that uh wanted or needed input Public Works Public Safety and the parks and rec committee as well so right now we're going to jump right into this the main discussion topics that we had with um uh throughout these meetings um the first one's going to be tandem parking um current regulations allow for Tandem parking residential and non-residential uses for residential uses you can't park more than one vehicle essentially what has to happen is you cannot if you have a car in front you can't move more than one car behind it to get it out if you have to move two cars to get it out that's not allowed so what that lends itself to is just being able to park too deep basically how how we usually park with you know I park on one side of the garage or I'm sorry one side of the driveway my wife parks in the other and when my son starts driving he's got to park behind one of us because we don't we don't have a big enough driveway so that's that's what it lends itself to for non-commercial I'm sorry for non-residential uses you can do three but it's got to be part of a valet um so you can't just outright use T parking but you can do three as long as it's with the valet okay so as part of this there's a couple of things that the LPA recommended um and we'll get to a couple of other things that this this has an effect on as well um for Residential Properties uh the LPA recommended to remove the tandem parking require or or restriction from all residential districts or residential uses um and a lot this gets back to how houses and housing used to actually develop organically prior to cars being such a big influence on our lives um think back to some of the really nice old neighborhoods in in the big cities right um I'm thinking back to Denver where you know that's that's what I call home Washington Park surrounded by a massive park or surrounded by the park is a whole bunch of nice little Bungalow homes you don't see driveways really because they're tiny and and you don't see Park a whole bunch of cars parked out in front of the house because the driveway goes down the side of the house well we can't do that now because we don't allow for more than two uh more than two vehicles to to do that so um the LPA recommended to remove that uh tandem restriction Al together with the residential districts um do we want to do we want to go down or do we want to discuss it one by one cuz last time I went straight through prob one by one so that we can just yeah we don't have to go back through it twice yeah awesome so anyone on tandem parking two questions uh first question any structure back there so the garage is in the the backyard still has to follow the setback regulations yes sir so because I don't want to see a bunch of zero lot lines where you got this driveway going into this building and then this leads to my second thing because part of the rationale is the water draining off that accessory structure garage whatever it is would still stay on that person's property but I didn't see where the driveway where we said you know you have to slope it even if it's a one to 10 slope or 1 to 24 slope back so that the water maintains on your property because my concern is you'll see a lot of these people and they'll either build rounded which is what a lot of people do or they'll you know be a little bit elevated and so all the water coming off my house and my accessory building hits that driveway and goes right on my neighbor's property and then of course then we have this big hooa and it's like you can't be putting water on my property which we already have that in this town anyway so is there any way to uh either say no slope or slightly sloped toward your own you have I mean I know we say you have to retain your water on your property that's where I was going to go yep um there's there's no problem adding language in that you need to if you do this if you build your driveway up to your propy line because you're using it down the side there's no problem adding in language where you shall slope it in such a manner where it slopes so the drains into your property and not away um um no problem we can we can absolutely add that type of language okay and it's only applicable on one side so you can't do this on both sides correct y I think that was all my questions on that thank you all right must quick clarification so being that it's is there a requirement on which side of the house that it has to be it just can only be following down one side of the residents correct correct well it's it's limited by the fact that we actually only allow one access to your property right um You would have to provide a traffic study um showing that there is an there's a a substantial public safety issue to even get a second access put onto your home or for your resident so um that in and of itself is fairly onerous to do um Corner Lots generally right um if you're at an intersection there might be an argument for to access these because or accesses because um you know you don't want it you don't want somebody pulling right out backwards right into the intersection or anything like that so there might be some argu for some Corner Lots uh but in general it's it's fairly honorous to to be able to get to so that's how it's limited to just one on the one side but again um adding language to make it very clear that you only get this on one side we can we can add counc mest thank you mayor have you given any thought to the fact that vbo people that are renting their short-term houses often times have bunk rooms where they can put 25 or 30 people how will this affect their ability to turn more houses into short-term rentals which is something I'm not sure we want to encourage MH so at the end of the day what's currently going on with the 27t wide throat width and the the eight cars out front that's still a option for them they can still develop that this is more geared towards the long-term residents and that we say that only we absolutely can um at the end of the day though um a lot of the comp a lot of the complaints that we receive in staff is seeing all these mini parking lots out in front um and and losing that single family residential look because of just the line of cars um so getting the cars lined up in a row on the side so you don't see as many would bring back that that more organic look but we can certainly limit it to just long-term residents yeah correct me if I'm wrong but one of the few ways we have to regulate short-term rentals is in fact with parking right yes sir and so if we increase their ability to park then we have taken away one of the few tools we have in the tool chest so I'm just asking you to give it some thought I don't want to encourage more and more of that so I you know I don't know if we can effectively say it's long-term only I we can say that enforc it makes it much more difficult I just I've got some reservations about this because it would encourage that which we have almost very few ways to regulate the other other question is on the short term can we say you have to have valet too I mean and tell me what valet means in the commercial properties so valet is you drive up you hand your keys to a valet individual and then they drive their car your car either offsite or somewhere on on the prop Valley individual can that be one of your employees for whoever owns the business or the yeah it's whoever's operating business if you provide that service it does we don't dictate who it is as long as the service is provided so perhaps we could apply that to short terms that would make it a little more uh organized and make it a little more difficult to do perhaps anyway give us some thought because that's my one my one heartburn with where we're going with this is take away the only tool we have yeah so um you know most let's use crystal beach right where most of the short-term rentals are going M um they're generally about 150 ft deep right um a parking stall is 19 is feet or 19 ft deep right so 150 divided by 19 is seven and a half seven and a half so include if you build a garage in the back that can house two there's your eight right there but as we all know right um people are bringing their massive trucks down as well so that increases 22 23 24 ft long so having it down one side doesn't really expand anyone's capability because the way that they're building these short-term rentals they're also providing that pool in the back so that also limits development of parking area as well well it does expand your ability if you do down to one side and then do what you were doing anyway now you can get twice as many no you you you get you get down the side or you get what currently is you don't get both you don't get both no no and and how do we enforce that that is in um I believe it's in the uh the it's in article six I can't remember the exact section but it's the language is in there because that is something that the LPA was very very concerned about yeah well sounds like I share that concern thanks yep councilman King you got some okay all right I think that's it all right next slide shuttle parking so we at staff we get this question regularly um obviously parking for uh for commercial uses down in the harbor um is increasingly becoming more and more rare um so a lot of individuals that are wanting to start businesses are saying well you know my business lends itself to where I can go pick people up and shuttle them to my property or Shuttle them to wherever so I can pick them up at their home I can pick them up at their rental at their hotel whatever and bring them to the property um and and so they're asking they were asking for shuttling Provisions that reduce the parking demand staff researched this found no real concrete shuttling regulations that mitigate what essentially would be the problem is this operator comes in operates this way but then has another person he sells the business another person operates the exact same business but doesn't operate the shuttle so now what do we do now we have an even bigger deficit of parking on site so all that being said discussing it with the LPA they recommended not even not even uh considering this anything on that one doesn't sound so NOP what can you um layman's term not supporting it meaning you'll no longer allow it no we don't allow it now so don't allow shuttle we do not what what was asked of staff was to look into um it was one it's actually this is one of the few comments that we actually received through the LBC comment page was to allow for shuttle parking so we responded we looked at it um and unfortunately it's just it there's nothing that staff could think of or the LPA could think of that would mitigate what I just said um about the business being replaced with the a very like use and now we have a deficit on site of parking so so people that are currently going and picking up people and bringing them back to their business they're just doing that for more of a courtesy then rather than to allow them to yeah if you establish a use somewhere you have to provide the required parking right period you can provide the shuttle shuttling service if you'd like but you're still required to bring uh to provide that parking required parking and so in your fear and LPA fear was that if we allow this for businesses that have not enough parking they could then provide this option it'd be okay for that business but then your your concern is when the next business owner takes over yeah so the purpose was the purpose was to allow a shuttling service to reduce your parking Demand right by say 15 20% right right well operator a that provided that shoveling service maybe it's okay moves out right finds a better location right and somebody else that has a very like similar demand of the original parking count needs that or wants to move in there well they don't have parking because the original guy got the restriction or the reduction and now he he can't do it but he doesn't want to provide the shuttling that makes sense but would we not be able to put language in the do the BTR or whatever it is that they're getting the approval to do the shuttling service that specifies this is not transferable or something like that you're still it's still at the end of the day you're still going to run into a deficit if somebody replaces it and doesn't provide that shuttling service right but they they'd be required to provide the shuttle service it's kind of like like what we do like with liveries right now right what happens when the Livery business is sold or liveries are transferred you know sure we're going to talk about that a different meeting too but yeah but the current Livery operators they all have their parking demand met right now and and they have their required parking is it possible though to have something where we provide an option to where we could go back if that business is sold to help because I you know I think it is a nice option to have shuttle parking for the businesses that are trying to open a business in in our city but they're limited right so I think it's a good option but then I'm sorry is there somebody that wanted to say something I couldn't hear oh um but you know can we as the city then help to you know what I'm saying like so there's nothing that stops anyone from doing this now they they can do this in fact there's the Dustin Harbor haulers I don't know if they're still operating but they they're shuttling service that partner with a whole bunch of other um business owners along the harbor and they go and pick up their customers and they only stop at those partnered locations right okay um so there's nothing to stop an operator from doing this right now the problem comes when we say hey if you do this you get a parking reduction at this rate that's that's the problem because at the end of the day no matter what businesses leave and we'll end up in a deficit I understand it all I guess maybe I'm maybe I'm not thinking perfectly clear right now long day but I just um I like the idea to be able maybe this is wrong but I like the idea to be able to offer a business that's new to the area and wants to start a business here this option but and then I don't like the idea to say we're not going to do this because the second business that buys that business might not follow that rule like you know what I mean like that's why I'm not I wish we could find a way I mean that's that's essentially what we do with with our current development regulations we have to we have to protect not only not only the the the current but Future Property Owners right future operators of that of that site and we and we do that by saying you have to meet this parking demand and if there's a change of use or something that increases the parking demand we go through that analysis and if they cannot provide it then they can't do it right so thanks for the explanation yep Steve do you mind if I get the chair up here just absolutely okay I'm just too simple of a soldier this is this is a simple issue okay if you want to do shuttling knock yourself out but I'm not going to reduce your required parking period that's the issue thank you for the comment counc mest I'm glad you clarified it for us but do we allow offside parking if it's within the distance required do we allow that to be used yes in in in in the harbor District we do allow off-site parking in the North Harbor and I believe CMU and South Harbor District so if you can provide that if you can get that and it's got so each one's different distance um which the draft article six standardizes it to about a half mile by the way the pedestrian walks whereas the current is by you know straight line distance um so and there may not even be a pedestrian Network between the use and where they do the offsite the new regulations do require that there be one so okay well I I I understand that part but tell me what the difference is with shuttling and offsite in both instances you have parking that's not located on site and if someone sells or buys and I mean I know we have we have regulations that say if you lose your offsite it's the same as losing your on-site but how does that not apply to shuttle not that I'm advocating shuttle I agree with you but I don't see a big difference in them since they're both using an off-site parking area so essentially what it does is it just it say say you're required to provide 10 parking spaces right offsite hey I can only fit five here and I'm renting five or I have another property within distance I can provide the other five there the shuttle parking reduction that's being requested would be I have 10 I required but only 50% of my customers are going to drive and I'm going to pick up the rest I'm you know all that and and so they only provide the five oh I get it it just seems the same concept to me yeah yeah yeah on that like so that makes sense right yes it does you know Gilligans has two properties so what happens if the one on Mountain Drive is sold but the one on 98 is not what happens to the next business owner isn't that whoever yeah so correct me if I'm wrong Daniel the the do requires that those two properties remain part of the do correct again um the off-site parking it's still required right right now in the mmtd we have a 20% reduction right um that's an issue uh so not only are they getting that 20% reduction for for the off-site parking but at least they're providing the parking this option they wouldn't even be providing that anywhere if you if you have off-site parking and you want to go pick your customers up and provide that shuttle trolley whatever to and from that's fine but at least the parking is being provided this option what they're requesting is I 50% of my customers aren't using cars so I want a reduction to 50% or 30% or 20% right um and those parking spaces aren't provided for at all so we allow offsite parking when people do business in certain are yes we allow shared parking yes so and so the reasoning for not wanting to do this was at least one of the reasons I heard was because the next business owner yes so if I own a business right now and I have a shared parking plan with somebody else and or I have off-site parking somewhere else and I sell my business what's to say that Mr King is going to continue to lease his parking lot to the new business owner you know what I'm saying are we GNA be there's development orders that are required and because of how they develop and the uses if they if if the uses it's all covered are required this amount of parking and you change it and you change that right one they'd have to come through for a deviation to the development order two if they sell off that parking lot and they no longer have access to those 20 spaces whatever uses happen on this site you now have to provide for all the parking on that site because you've lost that we we would just hope that the business owner comes to the city and says hey Mr King's not we hope for that every day right I don't know maybe I'm just confused but it sounds like it's the same issue for both both scenarios me the issue the issue is is that and this the the difference is shared parking off-site parking there is parking this there is no parking right that's the difference but this you were concerned about the second buyer we should still be concerned about the second buyer we're always concerned about the second buyer but at the end of the day this provides no cover for the second buyer guess my next question would then what are we doing in the city for the offsite parking and shared parking when there is a second buyer which I know it's not this item but what are we doing to make sure when that business is sold that the shared parking and the off-site parking is going to be continue to be provided btrs are one way okay right we we follow those um deviations right um changes in use all the like we have we have plenty of processes new own capture it yes but again going back to your other point we hope that they come in and tell us okay but we hope that people come in to get their permit for their shed that doesn't always happen I I'm not trying to bade you I'm just it's a lot of I 100% see the link between shared and this I see it and it's it's it's there but the main difference like I said is is shared parking the parking is provided this nothing's provide or a portion only a portion of it is provided so right councilwoman abar thanks mayor I I wanted to find out first of all you want to go I'm so sorry my bad I I was looking at the yellow not the red I was I kind of had the same questions as as Kevin did so you answered most of it but like for instance Harbor haulers that had they basically shuttle to about 10 or 15 different places they're like pocketing around so they're currently they got a BTR for like a small business to do courtesy shuttles so that's okay what they're doing right now yes because the parking count for those 15 entities they're not counting that shuttling as part of their parking gotcha they are providing their parking that they needed either on site or offsite if allowed they're providing it the the harbor Haulers is just a service right that's being provided so it's not that the restaurants which is what you're referring to when we say if they do a shuttle service at a restaurant that would take away their parking yes so Harbor haulers we're safe they're good to go we like what they're doing yep because they are their they are their own entity perfect that's all I wanted to because it's a great service like we want to ding these guys they made a great deal I remember when they came in a couple years ago and sat down with us we're like this is brli this is great yeah when I saw Kevin and his wife I told my husband I was like we got to do this thank you than all head mayor all right sorry Jim uh cilman Bagby yeah just relax you're doing a great job am I stressed I look stressed right now well no I think I think how got down this little rabbit hole is when you came out and proclaimed we don't allow shuttle parking no we do allow shuttle parking yeah we just don't give credit for parking spots for shuttle parking can do all the shuttle parking you want to do every business in this town can do shuttle parking but you still got to have the requisite number of parking spots at your business corre and that's the difference between the offsite and some some of these other things is we have a rule that says if you want credit if you're parking them within a half a mile down in the harbor District or whatever then you can count those you know but it and I'll have a question about that later because how we measure that half mile you know should be from the far end of the parking lot to the far end of the building not from the near to the because people walking a half mile but if it's more if it's if they're parking out in Crystal Beach and they have a shuttle service or they have something else you don't get you know that that doesn't help you so if you have you know ajs or you because you got that lot next door you know okay that's you get to count those but if they're not within the prescription you don't get to count those because they're two miles away or whatever and so I I think this is just a numbers on the parking that's all we're trying to do is say you got to you got to provide space to park and and I'm fine with it you know I think the LPA did a great job because we we use Uber whenever we go out I mean it's just like if we're going to have something to drink sometimes we'll go out and just go have something to eat but yeah so there should be enough parking the only thing we're trying to do is make sure there's enough parking for the businesses in the in in the town center and down on the Harbor so that that's good just be careful CU When you make a we don't do this an absolute yeah an absolute is nothing in this thing is absolute no you can't do this my only uh comments to it all would be if we were to ever consider this it would probably have to be within internal of us actually having a public transit system that would allow people to hop on and and us know that for the foreseeable future we are going to have this syst system that's not there so I think it would take that to make this kind of work with the the parking requirement numbers but that's me just thinking of yeah from the big Park here all right I don't see anything else all right next we got sewer connection requirement so right now um there is a requirement not only with the city that if you within a certain amount of distance or you able to connect to sewer and you're on septic you must um it's a state statute as well um currently it's if you're if you have access to it you got to connect within a year we we as a city have not enforced that fully um there are several um several homes that can connect to current uh sewer Services um but again um it's just we just have not enforced it there are areas that do not have the capability to connect um so when sewer services are reach out that way they eventually they will be and so the question was um do we actively enforce this should we maintain these regulations in our code or just follow the state statutes and allow Destin water users to partner with us in order to do this um State statutes were required to do this LPA recommended that we maintain this and then we also Act start actively enforcing this so questions do we have any do we have any idea uh what we're talking about are we talking six homes are we talking 65 homes or 600 homes it's not a whole lot I don't know the exact number but DW dwu does have that number 13 130 I know there's one on Main Street main Street's on atic 33 homes that yeah you want to come up yeah so we're talking about your your business Lockwood wette 10 Country Club Drive East and I'm here representing indes water users 218 Main Street uh the question is how many homes we currently have 33 homes that have sewer have water with sewer available and then uh we have 96 homes that are not currently connected when you look at our water connections and Sewer connections and uh those homes have a variety some sewers available and some aren't so that's our total so do all these have you know sewer running through the or water running through the rideway out in front of their home or there he said there's they they all have water running through the rideway in front of their home as far as sewer the 33 sewer available we know that sewer is there and it's stubbed out those are primarily vintage Circle in um Crystal Beach we did a project uh several years ago um to put sewer out in those areas some of the other places where it may not be Main Street for example Le where the mega house was being built uh we did not have sewer available at that at that location we have some plans to take sewer to those areas uh in the future but we haven't run it there yet because it's it's not okay what was the lpa's you know keep it in there let's start enforcing it how we going to how what's their plan or what was their recommendation on how to do that yeah it was it was to develop a a one-year um plan to one notify Property Owners hey you do have service sewer service available you have one year to connect okay and the current tap fee is probably I should know this but I don't uh $2,800 $2,800 for sewer okay right anyone else any it's a hard one all right next tree removal um this is another hot button topic that staff receives um on the regular um people want to tear down or or cut down trees on their own residential property um so staff just highlighted the problem wanted to have that discussion with LPA at the end of the day the LPA said no Residential Properties duplex and single family are not going to require a tree permit um in order to tear down a tree so um that was that recommendation and it's pretty pretty sound resounding sound and clear on that one so um but it was just something that staff wanted to highlight because we do get that call fairly regularly so regardless of the age or size yep regardless of the age or size and there's no replanting requirements there there is you are required to maintain um your landscape um refor forestation requirement um but there's really no way to capture that if there's no permit required exactly so if there's something else that happens on the property and somehow someway we happen to notice that they're aren't meeting their reforestation requirement then we'll investigate but for the most part most Residential Properties in this town far exceed the reforestation requirements and I totally get the it's my land argument but I think at some size tree that tree isn't yours because it was there before you bought that land and kind of talking about the businesses and the next generation of business and how we worry about that I just think at some point there should be a protection and that's just my two cents on that c Dustin and I understand completely where you're coming from we've tried that I think twice in the last 30 years and we burned in effigy and almost run out of town when we told people you can't build your home here cuz you can't tell the that tree down and so so far it hasn't worked for us but I would love to to support what you're saying because they're beautiful old trees that get killed all the time I just don't know how we can come to the compromise c b me maybe it is size you know if you've got a Heritage oak or something that's you know 24 in we we do so the problem last time was you have a have to have a licensed arborist and they have to come and it's like are you flipping kidding me I got to get an arborus to cut a tree like this that's rubbing up against my house you people are out of your mind so yeah so but there's probably some the the big you know if it's just a little scraggly pine tree I don't care but you know some of these Heritage Oaks and some of the Magnolias and stuff they are just magnificent and so I I don't know I would just ask y'all in the LPA to maybe think about some but keep the licensed arborist out of it and keep the big fee out of it and keep the you know I just it's we're doing this because it's the right thing to do not because an oppressive city government you know gets happy because they make you knuckle under for every little yeah yeah and I think that's where I'm at I mean if I want to wire my house getting the permits get everything right and I can shock myself if I want to and same thing with a chainsaw I'm I I think as as little as possible on the permitting but at some point we should have a dimension and you want to come up all right jump on up 50 in yeah I mean something yeah something ridiculous yeah Todd bur 4510 Luke Avenue and since Jim had to step out as the vice chair of the LPA we went around and round on this one and this is because of the history especially with an LDC rewrite and Steve had it we felt this was way too hot button to start from the ground up um because it's the seven of you that are going to take all the calls if we even start to crack it um I'd say we'll go take we could we always will go take a shot at anything worthwhile because the the Legacy trees are are huge but it sure sounds like based off my history and I'm not as long as some of the folks but I've been here long enough that probably needs to I would say start from a little more than a workshop of hey go look at something because probably whatever we come up with there's going to be just as many people who hate it as like it and I'm not sure that starting at the committee level on this one is a path for Success we'll take it but I'm just not sure that's the path for Success on a hot button and I especially wouldn't say put it in LDC reite like tucking it in to get it done I it almost would need to stand on its own I think yeah but happy to take Direction that's a very fair assessment Council woman air bear thanks mayor um it's funny that you came up Vice chair because as Sandy treml sitting in the audience tonight we were on a tree committee we we banned the tree committee because it was so hard to come to the right size of what trees to leave and what property you know belongs it's just it's so personal because people want their property to be how they want it you know they may want this tree gone and they want that Magnolia kept but I agree this is not something that you can start at this area to to make happen you can't force it but to put Heritage sized trees maybe some wording in there you know if it's a really you know the huge because I think we had like a 3 inch if it was longer than 3 inch people like oh my God I can't not cut that down so um yeah Sandy you got can she come up yeah thanks uh Sandy TRL 3823 Indian Trail uh and I have uh at least a dozen Heritage Oaks on my property and I take care of them but this year I got a notice for my insurance company that said I can't get insurance because I have trees limbs that go over my house if you have a 36 inch tree and the limb goes over your house and you're going oh this is going to make it look so one-sided when we cut this we don't have any control now we did before now if the tree is out and it's not near your house and it's you know it's there um it makes sense but 24 in is not a Heritage tree I mean I've been living on my property for 40 years and they were 24 Ines when they started and now I can't get my arms around them so the bigger trees yes I think you can look at it and I think you need to look at that in the Parks you know where our public spaces are because a neighbor down the street from us um cut down all the Heritage Oaks on the RightWay one weekend again nobody knew about it but the neighbors well I appreciate you guys trying to put something together without stirring up a hornet's nest but you're right this is something that would just take a lot of thought and consideration and verbiage and like she said the insurance companies now are getting involved because they don't want your trees on your house because then that's part of the value problem so thanks I'm I'm good all right okay next common boundary buffer um so this this kind of goes back to the tandem uh tandem parking So currently we have outside of the old Dustin mmtd District uh this common boundary buffer requirement um buffers are in the intent of a buffer is to create a space between a use that is more intense from a less intense use okay the common boundary buffer however has buffer requirements between like uses so residential to residential um you have a 5- foot common boundary buffer um on both sides of a side property line and both sides of a rear uh property line from your neighbor there are already setbacks that are required that are greater than the the common the the buffer the 5ft common boundary buffer for residential districts for commercial it's it's 10t and we're not going to be discussing that this is specific to residential um so staff had the conversation with the LPA to get an understanding of intent of the buffer what what are the goals of the buffer what is it that that we're really we're really getting at um and part of the problem with the common boundary buffer is it does limit like we said the driveway going down the side because you cannot put hard cape in the common boundary buffer you can vegetate it um and other things but you cannot put you can't put hardscaping for the regulations okay so therefore you can't put a driveway down the side um so what happened was the original discussion when we wanted to allow when the LPA want wanted to allow the driveway down the side was okay let's take what would have been required for the square footage of the buffer that was going to be required for the veget and be vegetated and take that and bank that somewhere else on the property in front of the house where at that point that area so say there's aund and something square feet that was required down the side of the yard but now has a driveway that 100 square fet is now banked to the front and then that that area can't be touched um it has to be vegetated in perpetuity um and so that would be identified on your site plan and all that sort of stuff so you couldn't park a car in that area you couldn't you couldn't develop it to Park another car in that area but still at the end of the day we have this problem with this common boundary buffer that really at the end of the day serves no purpose because you don't have to plant trees in it you just have to vegetate it put Plants put ground cover put grass it's it's there really at the end of the day it serves no purpose when it's residential to residential um because the setbacks the setbacks are greater and you have that more open space with the setbacks and you do with the common boundary buffer so through that discussion with the LPA the LPA does recommend to um get rid of the common boundary buffer in all residential districts um when it is residential to residential right any comments I agree rolling along all right that was easy this um this was provided by uh Vice chair Burr we these are some of the pictures that were provided back in February we going have a discussion so this is the the parking for short-term rental um this is kind of what we get um because we have the common boundy buffer requirement um but this is what people really want and you can hide you know several cars down that sideway that side driveway Drive aisle and that's that that is the more organic more historical residential look versus that these are just a couple of these are from Crystal Beach all these are existing homes in Crystal beachly lild yeah you can't the all these homes are are legal non-conforming um because we do not allow this now so some examples way cleaner all right fences so getting out the old Destin mmtd not only did the old Destin mmtd um exempt all the properties inside of it from the common boundary buffer but it also Exempted them for uh from providing um a instead of uh an 8ot fence um on your front property line everywhere else you have to build a three-foot you can't build um in Crystal Beach and a lot of the properties to the north um of of Kelly um you have to you can't build a fence taller than 3T within 5T of your front property line um and so with the removal since the old Destin mmtd is going away as a district and then of itself um there are still a lot of really good design standards in it that we'll talk about when we get to the design manual but this is one of the things that if we just straight out flat out get rid of the the the district the old old Dustin mmtd a lot of these homes in that area are going to the fences are going to become legal non-conforming um and so when they come to repair them they'll only be able to repair them 25% at the time um or if they're torn down completely they'll have to come into compliance with the three-foot um and so you can imagine how angry a lot of current residents may be if that's the case so staff brought several Solutions possible solutions um you'll see them listed one uh one through three there um number four is just any any any direction that the LPA could have provided um and so at the end of the day the LPA just said hey bring back regulations um or develop regulations that hit all three of those and so what that means is Residential Properties in the village the harbor and holiday aisle planning areas will be able to or will be exempt from the 3-foot requirement and be able to build that 8ot um fence in front so cuz right now they're only allowed to go up to 3 ft outside of the old desd yep okay um they're required to go 3 feet inside of it you can go eight feet okay all right Council Meson I would agree with that salute that that direction CU I know what'll happen when we get hurricanes because they knock all those fences down and now we tell folks you can't put your fence back if it's more than 3 ft tall they're going to be very high rate so I would I would go along with that solution that would probably be the only way to avoid very very upset people when the storms knock all their all their fences down yep right anyone else Council BBY yeah because I I'm running through trying to do we know how many Parcels we're talking about here that have 8 foot fences along both their borders yeah if you can only go three of six wouldn't be allow either yeah yeah um off the top of my head no uh and I don't think staff has done that res search okay but I mean just driving through the village old Dustin anything south of Kelly in the Village North of mountain aelia just driving through those neighborhoods there's a bunch that that have that eight six foot 8ot fence on their front property line right up to the property line cu the only ones I can think of are in in the old neighborhood Bridgewood Circle where we lived but one of them is cor actually a couple of them are Corner lots and the house faces like land Rob but the 8ft fence is along yeah so currently in the regulations there's an allowance for the community development director to approve an 8ft fence if you have a corner lot down one side um just to give them the same privacy that pretty much everyone else receives got and that was I was going to add is in our area which is kind of the aelia neighborhood uh a lot of the corner lots have that and I was always curious why like right up to the sidewalk you got the Fortress fence and you can do that in that area you can do that around to the front side too exactly yeah y I'm seeing a lot of people do that so but I haven't seen a lot of people do it on in front of their house on to protect their backyard just because their backyard fronts up against this and we're we're maintaining that allowance and and we're we're essentially getting rid of the requirement for the request to the community development director and just you identify your front lawn your front yard and then you can build the 8 foot down the the side yard yeah because we say oh well you know people have this and then we come find out it's 20 people in for 14,000 houses or whatever we have here I'm like okay you know I'm sorry but but I'm okay leaving it all right cool see nothing else all right all right View Corridor um this is more of a comp plan discussion so we have this comp plan policy in here uh 7-1 125 and I'm actually going to turn to it in my print out no I'll get there eventually I promise I'm not I'm not just a little go all right so we do have this requirement for vertical open space and seeing vas Waterfront views and Vistas are important to the character and quality of life for Destin residents as well as for maintaining a viable tourism economy and it says in here within one year um estimated to be in 2019 the LDC shall provide standards that address site development building mass and height and fencing designs that promote Waterfront views and Vistas as far as I can tell none of that was done we have setbacks we have the 3-foot fence requirement um on the front yard um one there's no identified view corridors um two there's no specific regulations that say if you are say south of Scenic 98 um you are to maintain x amount of buffer off your property um when building in order to allow for the public to view um through you know to the gulf right um and Kim might agree with me on this or might not I don't know um if we put regulations in now that say um with our current setbacks that we have and the current um rights that property owners have especially along these areas where I'm sure view corridors would be loved uh to be developed um but if we say no now you've got to be set 25 ft off your property line with this View Corridor buffer on both sides to create this 50-ft View Corridor um that could violate um some some property rights issues um with the current setbacks at whatever they are 10t 7 and 1/2 ft so if you'd like disagree is it defendable it's all defendable so um at the end of the day um after discussion with the LPA uh they essentially said let's not even discuss developing view corridor regulations until view corridors are identified um and then also if they aren't or if there's no plan to do that then this policy really needs to be taken out of the comp plan because we're not implementing it and we're not going to be doing that with uh with the current LDC unless city council requires uh wants it to be done um through some sort of view cordor study or something Council mby yeah I mean we've been trying to do this Forever part of the cheering concept was you know we would chear it back so we'd have a view corridor in between the buildings on the Harbor where you could actually see the harbor and of course the developers were smarter than we were and they just filled up the setbacks with vegetation so you put big palm trees and you put fences and you put and all of a sudden you can't see anything there I I'm not sure I'm willing to give it up but we have to be smarter than the average bear I would love to see some view corridors down on the Harbor and out on the beaches whether Crystal Beach or holiday aisle or whatever where you can actually see between when we designed our park one of the things that we did is hey no move this building over there so that when people come to this stop sign they can see the golf right there and go look kids the water we're almost there type thing so I think it we just have to figure out how to do that but we we ought to keep trying to create view corridors or so the based on that if if you know if it is the will the council to maintain this in the comp plan view corridors will need to be identified and then regulations developed based on the specific view corridors so um that unfortunately probably won't be able to happen right now so um that that would have to be a probably a a study done by a consultant or or to get you know a lot lot of public input at several workshops over several months so yeah 2019 um I believe it was done in 2018 um so uh the next are we're we're due for an ear here in a year or two so for what an eval evaluation and appraisal report of our comprehensive plan to make sure that our our LDC and other regulations are in compliance with the comp plan just just doesn't know that's required under state law every seven years and so what year did you say we're due believe uh I believe it was last done in 2018 so I think we're due next year that sounds right because Lewis was new when we last did it okay cool yeah and I'll just Echo what cosm Bagby said I think it's worth fighting for on that end and I think easier said than done I think the priority is where you could see water that's probably what we want to see so then the pretty much taking out the language prior to the next evaluation appraisal we need to kind of take that language out to ease that requirement because we're yeah we're not going to we're not we're not there right [Laughter] now I would uh as Kim says anything's defensible I would say we are done quite well with our view quarters to the tomb of about $25 million we have a 30 foot view quarter to the right of the bridge we have one where the Royal Melvin Park is and we have about 400 feet down on Crystal Beach so I think we are vigorously pursuing our view corridors just not at the expense of each individual but as a city as a whole so I wouldn't take it out we're doing a lot to go forward with right now very good point okay all right all right Rong light or WR cool anything else on that one all right all right so now we're going to get into the design manual so um part of this whole rewrite um there's this industry Trend um in planning and engineering community development as a whole to take out design specifics design standards design details and put them in a manual that lives outside of the regulations but is adopted through the regulations okay so the proposed draft Destin design manual DDM for short um houses all of that so say um the requirement for um certain radi for access on residential districts there's a design drawing for that and the purpose of that design drawing is so that a developer or designer can take that drawing literally copy it and put it into their plan and one we know it meets our standard we know it meets our code and it's quick and simple for them so there's no there's no back and forth of oh well you know you didn't provide the the radi at this you you need to provide this it's like well I have this constraint I have that right the it's just copy and paste into your design and go forth right um the other part of it is um it houses um processes that aren't necessarily regulator in nature so numbering um house addressing um Street naming conventions right none of that's really site development none of that's really land development in nature um but it is important we do need it um we currently don't have either one of those processes um the design manual has developed processes for those two items among other things um and so really at the end of the day the way to think about the design manual and the relationship with the LDC is the LDC is the what you must do and the design manual was how you do it um and so it it follows all if we have the design spec in in the in the LDC currently if it meets current code if it meets current standard uh industry standard um it was just created the design the drawing was designed um and created um if we needed to update it based on industry Trends safety um fire code all that sort of stuff that it was updated um and so um I think it's 52 drawings 53 is drawings that we have um for everything from from our um city sign posting for development or project all the way down to the wheel stop for a parking lot um and everything in between um so that's what that's what's in in the design manual and how it will work in tandem with the LDC um so what's in the design manual pretty much the majority of the specifications um as identified in um what is the special design criteria uh in 70903 um a lot of that stuff has to do with the the mmds there's a lot of really good design spec design requirements in the old Des mmtd which is why if we just take it away and pull it away you know that'll be a disservice because there's a lot of really good stuff in there so we just took the good design from it that's currently exists and we put it into the design manual um landscape development and then also we um are including the uh the development checklists that currently exist in article 17 um and so those are those are those are going to be in there the design details and then also um how to measure things um because right now we have a description of of you know um measure the the the height of or the width of a tree the diameter of a tree at breast height right uh dbh um well what does that mean right so we have a drawing in there that just that that details how to do that how do you do that with a multi-trunk tree right we have that drawing in there too so um all that sort of design how to um is is in this design manual now the design manual is not going to be a part of the LDC it will be its own separate document the purpose for this is is not to it's not to not include the public but at the end of the day there are certain specifications that that just need to be done because of Industry standard industry best practices and there's nothing in the D and design manual that says that the public is cut out for any reason um but it is essentially just allows for an ordinance to be developed um and then brought straight to city council um and if staff identifies city manager community development director or principal planner city engineer anyone identifies that hey this board should probably be involved in this they will be involved um and then the public hearings and so on and so forth but essentially instead of having to go through three public hearings with the LPA that has to when you amend the LDC it's just goes straight to ordinance to city council and if the direction is to go back to a board or if we haven't gone to a board um then then we will so it's a little bit easier a little bit quicker of a process um to to change uh the design manual right I'm hoping this isn't a left field thought um with the landscape development and the design of everything uh currently are we allowed to plant trees on the RightWay or anything close to sidewalks or impervious spaces where we're worried about the roots coming up yeah we have we have Street tree requirements okay yeah we yes and we have a new design detail in the design manual that says if you build within so on you have a root barrier that's requ going with all that okay cool awesome thank you yep just double checking cust Des okay so I understand the design manual is a way to do it is not the only way to do it no correct no it is not the only way as long as you meet the minimum requirement right as identified in the LDC you can do an alternative this is just makes it easy for a designer to just copy and paste and and get get the design done quickly and I have no problem with that all at all I I am a little hesitant to speed the process up because it appears that staff becomes legislators they just bring it straight to us and initiate legislation which is what we're supposed to do not what staff is supposed to do so I've got some heartache with that on top of the fact that you're you're cutting the public the public participation down and making it faster not something generally I would support but I'm certainly willing to listen to what you could do yep and and we we did we we figured that that would probably a dis be a discussion Point um the best pra or the not the best practice sorry the practices that are done with most design manuals um here in Florida and elsewhere is um just what we are proposing so figured we' we'd try to see how what your all's feelings were with it obviously probably not the best so we'll fix it councilman Bagby yeah okay well here's the second one I agree with him completely the uh I and you know my note is DDM review through the LPA and so uh it's just like they've made this document that you know you worked hard the consultant worked hard the rest of the staff worked hard but they made it better and we part of that and Sandy will understand I've always been big on committees because that is one of the ways we communicate with the citizens it's we can put out and we do you know we have a great public affairs but you go have coffee with these old retired guys and it's they're talking and if you got somebody from the LPA or somebody from one of the Committees is like oh that's not how that happened let me let me set you straight before we start running down rabbit holes here and so I've always been a big supporter and I I just wanted to go through the LPA because I think that socializes the information just that much more and I agree with Mr D uh the staff has a very important role but legislating you know being the LPA is not one of the staff's jobs all right councilwoman abar well thank you mayor um I was going to chime in with Dewey um but Jim did a great job and so I don't need to pontificate on what he said I agree we just want to make sure things do continue to go through the lp thank you yep all right that was the last one all right that is it um Ryan is here to run through specific design details if you would like um we can pull those up um and run through them if you'd like to take a look at them otherwise they're accessible to you online in the Dustin draft so since we only have a couple more days with them all right I'll I'll pull them up [Laughter] here any engineering questions you have whatsoever we're going to mil him for the last couple hours we got with [Laughter] him I'm here what do you need all right I have a question um do we have any measurements for canopy canopies of tree vegetation over imper impermeable surfaces so is there any way for me because I'm just I'm trying to get over the desert heat islands and just asphalt to Sun all day long and so something I just wanted to bring up as potential measurement would be as we move forward with development orders that not only do they meet a tree requirement but they also meet a canvasing requirement of the asphalt um I think some of them that we just passed probably would be good candidates of what I'm asking for but just to make it in in writing I didn't know if we had a an equation for mature tree canopy and how much that is um over asphalt versus the non canopied asphalt to keep it so that is a great question for planning yeah my bad know um so we have the minimum tree height and then we have the minimum caliper upon insulation I don't know if we get into detail on uh canopy size at mature height I don't think so all right yeah and then the okay then I I'll talk to him on the side all right counil M Schmid is article six with the Landscaping section is this what's going to then allow code to have better ability to this might have not been for Ryan but go ahead and ask to have the better ability I I think I just lost my spot but I mean it's it literally specifies how to keep like yards cleaning how to keep landscape the Landscaping Maintenance section so no specifically because well maybe that's part of it but we are working on adopting um the international property maintenance code AS slightly revised and the building officials working on that now um so that's where a lot of it is going to be because that'll provide for like a a grass height and various other yard cleanup type issues correct yeah so so like what what's in here right now 6610 this is is this what it was but you're saying it's going to change you open section 60610 Landscaping Maintenance and use standards all required plant material shall be maintained in a healthy viable condition blah blah blah yes this I don't think this gets at what the the international property maintenance code is going to do this just basically states that you you're going to have to maintain what's required of You When developing shall be maintained um so I guess this my question is then when we've talked in the past about yards that are crappy MH we've talked for a few years on not enforceable yet so or is it what you're saying is what you're going to have into the re yeah well it's actually coming to you before the rewrite so we didn't want to wait on it so we're actually taking all of that and bringing it to you within the next probably well this year maybe 60 days or around there but Noel is given it to me about a week ago and I'm working on it with her um answerers it than yeah okay yeah that that brings up another really good point um because as as we've discussed in the past as well there are certain portions of the LDC that we're pulling out and putting into the code of ordinances and going back to the the LDC is the what the design manual is the how right the code of ordinances is is a behavioral document right this is how you you need to behave pretty much right so behave what how is how how you can kind of look at the three um and I know that's really an oversimplification of it but um it's it's really simple way to look at it when when looking at three documents and how they relate okay and that's a good point because it's going into to the code of ordinances along with where we currently have our unsafe building code in the LDC that's going into the code of ordinances so anything building code related and international property maintenance code will be in the code of ordinances and not part of the LDC reite okay um another question the items that were in here like section 611 provides Clarity on the Harbor walk Boardwalk development requirements that are currently not properly Place readily known is that a section that was or is edited because it wasn't in here there are that currently exists in our code okay um and it's just we that is such a that that in and of itself the harbor Boardwalk development is such a big item that it needs to be called out and not buried 14 paragraphs into some obscure section of the current LDC so it's being Rewritten putting under Section 611 is you're saying yes where it exists what what 611 is what exists now just in its own section and called out got it thank you all right councilman Stevens hey thank you um looking at chart was it t-03 where uh in the residential the the travel Lanes go to 9t and the commercial goes to 10t are these more or less used for um speed caling mechanisms maybe to get away from speed humps uh yes so that's something else that's in the works um we're going to the public works Public Safety Committee to talk about alternate speed calming measures besides just speed humps and stop signs all over the city um so we started kicking that around this last um committee meeting and we're coming back with a process now to the committee and then bringing that to council um so that's one of the ideas is to like in the residential neighbor restrict the lane width to feel constricted when you're driving and you slow down thank you so obviously if if none of that is acceptable to council then this will all get re revised to be whatever Lane width is decided all right councilwoman thanks mayor um I was going to also ask about property and what Kevin had already brought up so since you've answered that and it's coming out separately hopefully within the next 60 days like Miss cops said I'll just hold tight until that comes but in the meantime thank you for all you've done and we're sure going to miss you Magie um if you'll see me after this I've got 10 or 12 typos we just need to run a spell check on this document because it's okay okay uh second thing what is the color scheme you know some things are highlighted in green some things are highlighted in yellow and I'm just I was trying to figure out the rhyme and reason for the coloration I can answer that so okay good yep so the green highlight if you you'll see a pattern they're mostly um references to other sections within the LDC right the green is a section uh that's been confirmed that that is the section that currently exists elsewhere either in that article or elsewhere in the code and it's just a highlight marker for staff to go back to when all this is said and done to ensure that it is it Remains the because there will be changes made um to go back and double check that the yellow ones are ones that that were at one point correct but may have changed okay um and so again it's just a it's just a call out for staff to ensure to go back to double check that that that is the correct reference okay so on page five 60202 um a all sight triangles shall be in compliance with Section XX X of the design Destin design manual that probably should be highlighted in red yellow because it didn't exist before okay all right so are we going to keep the multimodal district we referenced it in here and I thought we were getting rid of it no we're not we're not keeping it if the reference is there then it's it's to um ensure that one um it was either let me put it this way is either there be out of out of mistake and we'll double check to make sure or it was put in left in there to be able to reference back to hey this was an area and at that some point this was required in this area Okay so it was 60202 2A and I think it was in the right way uh yes so on page four again 2A there exceptions the installation and repair of mailboxes so or installation of Street trees and other streetcape features in compliance with the design standards for the multimodal transportation district located in section 8.09 do3 so yeah that that that needs to be removed okay yep uh um that's typo typo typo typo hang on Transit stop shelters um so they have to be they have to be able to seat eight people per current code yes yes what is this okay but they only have to be six feet wide so in here it it conflicted and I'm just trying to figure out which one it's eightt and little people yeah it's eight little B people on a six foot bench so or six foot wide but it can be 8 feet deep and so I'm just trying to figure out how we came up with those that that requirement was just pretty much copy and paste from the current code so I'm not familiar with why that specific Dimension was developed okay um yeah we can certainly take a look at it though okay let's just take a look at that and see if we can and then bicycle parking Jim on that oh I'm sorry jump up here the exceptions in 60202 uhhuh and I know they were going real quick I that would be a significant change from the way it currently is like if you want to replace a sod on your right away in the front you don't have to go get a permit to put that's what that I'm not worried about what it tells you to do I'm worried about the reference to a document or a you're talking about the reference you're talking just the reference at the end not the whole thing Transit District which shouldn't be in there if we don't have one I'm good on the reference it was a little confusing that you wanted the whole thing out which seemed like a rather large change to have people come permit to change their Sid so that that was I don't it ought to be what it ought to be but it ought not to reference reference something that doesn't exist anymore because then there'll only be one or two of us that go oh yeah that was like in 2012 we had that thing and okay um the next one page 16 hang on the um on page 16 there's a what else and I didn't quite understand that hang on I'll pull it up see because y'all know if you put it in front of me yeah I I got it right here it's it's under uh C paragraph C what else 2 c c 2C and I was like what does that what does that mean that was that was at one point a marker for staff to have more discussion on if there was anything else required so again okay needs to be pulled out again this is getting in the Leed get the weed hey that's what we're here for no I I 100% appreciate it I do I don't want to put this out on the street one person over here right like you know trying to pull something from it gets reviewed by you know multiple people and and and you know missed so yeah okay and then or one person is thinking someone else is going to pull it out you know CU you don't have really your fine tooth person uh there are some trees that in your uh that you skipped over the part in your part the Sparkleberry tree which was recommended to be pulled out yep and the did I skip that slide you did oh my gosh wow sorry that's okay we can go back he's going to come see you no I'm going I'm going I'm going to see one of y'all about all these typos and stuff but what does it say about pal well funny you mention that that's one of my notes yeah you can have them it doesn't count where are the palm trees palm trees are technically a grass they're not a tree I'm like 80% are you flipping kidney on palm trees ask the arborist palm trees are a grass that's no no I go but uh yeah look see palm trees 80% but I want to get to page 31 first because there was something about sports Fields Sports fields and special events is the issue and there I am finally okay yeah so it's highlighted so that tells me y'all mean to go back and look at that and put something in there or we just threw a couple of ideas out and thought we'd highlight it to see if I caught it or what no I mean I if we if we didn't want you to catch it we wouldn't highlight it no um it's it's probably yeah so there's there's highlights in here for staff to ensure that all these things are correct throughout um and and at one point there was probably some discussion this is also underlined and a request of the LPA was that any changes made after a certain point that they are underlined and highlighted so that's easy reference for them so that's probably what this is okay so y'all y'all are going toix it fill that in with 32 foot candles of lighting for sports fields and then light lasers will be allowed at special events or something because I also noticed that the drones were not mentioned anywhere in here although lasers were speaking my language yeah okay uh yeah then on page 41 no guys come on really the palm trees you're going to let them have 80% that's what's currently in the code yeah that's insane and we that's South yeah South Harbor Boulevard and Emerald Coast Parkway yeah no I I'll never I'll never vote for 80% palm trees anywhere what what what what would the council like to see yeah sit right there Ryan that way you can you can come back yeah 5% would be good 5% well you have two you have for those properties South Harbor uh Boulevard and Emerald Coast Parkway Palm Trees May comprise no more than 80% of the total of all required trees the number of required trees shall be increased by 20% above the minimum requirements for tree set forth in paragraph a or whereever it's going to be so but if you look up there the in Sea palm trees cannot comprise more than 40% of the total number of all required trees so you know I would be happy if we kept it I'd be happy at zero but I know that's not going to fly the uh get R the exception for south south of Harbor andal Coast well not double the number of palm trees come on guys this is lower Alabama this is not Miami like I said this is currently in the code so going they snuck it in while we're we're trying we're trying we're trying not to change too much too drastically um only we're we're addressing a lot of the issues that that that staff has identified that the public has identified and that was not one that was not one of the issues identified so and only to the side C that topic that's kind of where I was coming from with the canopy coverage is you know you can have whatever you want but it better cover a canopy and that was also a little jab at the palm trees that don't have a canopy yeah let's try 40 % and see if that because I agree with Mr J that that was not what it was when I left last time and obviously now on page 44 44 yeah Bradford peir was one of the ones that you said needed to be removed okay and or the LPA or somebody said needed to be removed and Sparkleberry on page I think 45 on the next page but they're still in here on these two pages no I mean I I'm okay with removing uh Sparkleberry and um Bradford Bradford pairs you know because every developer loves Bradford pairs because they grow fast you know and they provide shade and it's but you see where where it is oh you know what I I have a better explanation for you I just remember I just remember no so this this is coming to you before we get the final recommendation from the LPA because Ryan has such a hand in the design manual so this actually hasn't gone straight to the LPA with that recommendation for staff to make that change in it those those changes in it so that's I was wondering why the these things hadn't like I know these things were being addressed that's why because we haven't gotten the recommendation from the LPA to make those changes Oh I thought you I thought the thing said you had got we've gone to the LPA for to discuss these things but we haven't gotten the rec we haven't done the public hearing for their recommendation to city council for this like we did with article four and and several others most of these articles are going to LPA multiple times okay yeah yeah you can't you can't have one night discussion with these um with the LPA so so that's maybe the answer for this other one this next question on page 50 when we talked about the buffer you know and so this kind of gets into the the details of the buffer on page 50 but you know it's it says no concrete and it says that space would be one one vehicle use Hardscape except for what is allowed in sub paragraph B [Music] below where is the no concrete no hang on yeah if a property owner wishes to develop driveway then only on one side which I agree with you're talking about the open space banking yes the open space banking yep so again that's that's yeah that's because it hasn't gone to the LPA for their final official recommendation to make that change okay all right the open space banking's in there but to get rid of the common boundary buffer alog together the open space banking is not required yeah so so okay we gotta but oh it's up above uh d one all both for areas will be shall be landscape with grass ground cover shrubs Hedges other Landscaping treatment or na plant the list below are examples of landscape elements or materials not allowed in buffer areas but is not limited to this list Rock for Pebbles hardscaping such as concrete or asphalt so either we're going to allow Concrete in the buffer or not but you're going to have to take that sentence out if you're going to if we get rid of the common boundary buffer there's no buffer that exists and therefore there's nothing to deconflict and then uh there's one place where the city manager or his or her design can wave the storm water and I did not write down the page but it is hang on I'll find it I I I don't want the intent is to change that to their design to make it gender neutral no that's I don't want storm water wave that's my whole thing is because particularly at uh we have enough storm water problems in this town and we start waving storm water requirements that that's my concern and I will find the exact spot but that's those are the main things and I'll see about the typos and stuff it looks like it's in 6.4.0 6 yeah 60406 of the LDC and uh to Steve's Point uh the reason why this got pushed fast track to you is obviously the actual drawings that I drew up for the city 50 some of them if you want anything changed in the drawings before I leave this week um that was the point of getting this pushed up always a chance that you can have projects after you leave we may I've already talked to his boss yeah we may have to discuss some of that absolutely all right Council bman anything else on your list all right Council mtin you remember what your thinks your thoughts were I wrote it down I lost mine minutes ago I uh first I wanted to hit on the multimodal again when we switch to multimodal we went from minimum parking requirements to maximum parking requirements if we're getting rid of the multimodal what are we doing on those two different completely different thought processes on parking based on policy Direction given in the past we're getting rid of Maximum parking and so are we going to have minimum parking yeah minimum parking is required period yes okay but the maximum parking requir maximum is going to go away which is a good idea because it was not real good and has led to a lot of the problems we've had I uh I did notice some standards in here about roundabouts I don't know if it was we skipped over it or if it was into the manual but it's it gives a criteria where roundabouts should be used I believe and it said at a number of instances and some of those instances I'm I'm afraid are not really a good idea roundabouts do a wonderful job of what they're designed to do they're cheaper than stop lights they facilitate traffic through in a much more efficient manner because there's no stops however those things that roundabouts do so well are not really in my opinion suitable for neighborhoods it's not what we want them no it's not what we want them not what we want them I know uh our city Engineers talked about traffic calming and I'm willing to look at all of those but I've never seen so far anything that slows it down and traffic and coms it as well as uh speed bumps and stop signs they flat work and I watch the city of for wall and various cities around us try to go to the traffic narrowing and until they get down to about uh you've got 6 Ines on each side of your cars doesn't work they did that in downtown for Walton through the area now where you will notice people have not slowed down much at all now when we get to the barriers that on the new Brooks Bridge they've shoved it together enough that that actually slows people down I'm not sure we can do that in the city's the street to put up those con concrete barriers so so I would I would caution you to let's think of the traffic cing and get some real thought to what works I know what does work with speed bumps and those stop sign a lot of people think they are bad things but the only thing I see that they do badly is slow traffic down other than that you know what harm are they causing and they're cheap and they're a lot cheaper than hiring traffic enforcement so anyway I'm sure we'll bang heads on that later on and I'll miss banging heads with Ryan because I guess that'll be after he's going but but that's an issue that I have a great deal of angst with not going to bang heads with me this is it's this is this is your community right I'm I'm here to serve right you're one of those blue water guys no it's it and and really at the end of the day this is going to be for you all and so if if what is in here is not consistent with what you all want then I'm here to change it my my only suggestion on all that is if we could have some studies not not of local studies but of national studies and they're they Pro or cons on on the roundabouts I'm definitely for them because of the different studies I've seen and watched and I know they're not it's not a oneid fits all but I I'm going to be on the side of very much four roundabouts versus signalized lights Andor uh stop signs uh just cuz I mean Insurance Institute of Highway Safety Federal Highway administrative all all these National Studies have showed I mean upwards of 75% in reductions of Crash uh indicates that installations of roundabouts lead to 40% reduction in pedestrian crashes so I get it that it may not work in all Community areas of ours but I I the data seems to be pointing that they're favorable for pedestrian and automobile safety but again that's up for us to discuss resp like you already have your studies in I I I will I want the real documents in front of me not some summarized versions so that we can really Goa want nope I want pedestrian safety well I'll give you a sneak peek on what's coming your way oh boy um so we did do a traffic study per one of the complaints and over by Dalton threadgill uh on coun ites has two curves before you get to the park and it did trigger the need for something the people are speeding through those two curves so one of the ideas we talked Public Works Public Safety about was painting an optical illusion on the curves to make it feel tight when you're going into them to see if it slows down so that's a very cheap way to test this Theory because we can put out our speed study before this happens put down the thermoplastic and do the speed study after and just kind of start comparing data just to see a cheap way to see what's how it actually affects the community and if it doesn't affect the community we're only out a couple thousand dollars on paint hey Ryan real quick I was I was D in I think I was in sandes a couple weeks ago and I saw what looked like a speed bump and I like slowed way down I just rolled right over it it was just etched asphalt with that was like etched to look like bricks it worked it got me probably wouldn't it probably won't get me next time so yeah that's the thing that's the thing once the residents figur it out then yes well and on the optical illusions and just speed cing topic um where would as we go through with the um renewal replacement of our roads even if it's just a painting restriping where where does the lane withd live so um I did mention this also in my last meeting with the parks and or not Parks Public Works Public Safety Committee um there's a unique opportunity next year and next year's budget to work with the engineering division with Michael's group and that committee to pick pick out a couple roads that are on the budget to be resurfaced and stripe them narrower and then the engineering division again can do the speed studies before it gets resurfaced and after and just start collecting some fairly cheap data as to see how it actually affects the community and again if it doesn't affect it you can scrape the stripes off and paint them back the the regular size so that wouldn't cost a lot of money to to test my only reason for really wanting to push that is Main Street right now is I think 11 feet or 12 feet striped which is the the same width that we would provide for an interstate and we're wondering why they want to go 60 interstate highway speeds okay I am pushed off this I don't know what happened here so I think Kevin are you up I am Flying Blind sure um yeah let's put a note on that Mr Larry the idea he just talked about that'd be great for whoever next year's budget look at that it's awesome Ryan thank you um let's see yes the Mr burs picture when did that uh we would we would not be allowed to build that now so when did it change to allow what is now in 2012 2012 gotcha thank you sir um the water taxi stop section 6 point something it's currently in here it's it is what it is it hasn't changed so can you this this is what what what is this do in our article six it basically tells a non-residential business on the Harbor if they would like to add a water taxi stop to their business here's here's how to do it how would you explain this section that's yeah so if you if you're it says in here all nonresidential mixed use multi family development the Border Dustin Harbor East Pass or talk to hat Bay shall provide a minimum of one loading and unloading area or slip which shall be reserved for use by water taxi so it's it just basically says if you have property that fronts one of those three bodies of water you're you will provide a water taxi stop so this isn't like if you want to add it this is a being down there you were supposed to do this basically it's a it's a sh it's I'll have to to take a look at what the current regulation set I is it so there you go so so everybody that's on the Harbor is supposed or no not everybody it's sorry I apologize the non-residential right in theory supposed to be doing this correct okay so it's kind of like the poop situation are we going to enforce it or not maybe I guess yeah I'm pretty sure this is was all part of the harbor okay Boardwalk development standards okay that was buried and right and so just just because the organization of the LDC and where things live things are missed a lot um to to hopefully like you know let's say one day somebody actually did want to start and enforcing it can we look at it to make sure it's it is realistic you know or or user friendly I guess for the businesses down there to make sure it's not hindering them doing it yeah so the a six foot wide bench that holds eight people or you know like yep so we had we did have a a marina that came in off the chak tahachi bay um about a year ago or so and staff did enforce this and it is doable um they you know they provided the slip density right and then they got the extra slip for this transient Water Taxi stop as well okay so it it is it is doable it doable okay that's good um is that yeah love to if we start enforcing it one day like make it and most most docks when they terminate right that's usually a really good spot for water taxi stop right and and most at the end of most finger Piers or most docks there isn't any more ing there anyway um so it it generally lends itself to a water taxi stop so it it could even be something that's that's just provided naturally in the design right yeah you know like a trash receptacle I just I just didn't want to get it too far in the weeds where well nobody wants to put a trash recept receptacle at the end of the finger dock you know so I just didn't want to prevent because I love the idea of water taxis and I just want to make it hard for businesses whenever we trash recepticles run about $99 right but not at the end of the dog you know what I'm saying yeah yeah I I at the end of the day if somebody provided the trash receptical and it got moved to the middle of the dock okay if it's there the intent is met fantastic um and then I think that's it uh yeah ARS it thank you councilwoman a bear um sort of the same question that Kevin had he got most of the answers just question do you know if all the current like restaurants or businesses on the Harbor do we know if they've all met that because they have just maybe the end of the pier as an availability to put um a more I I don't know if it was part of the development order or requirement of those development orders um I recently did a survey of of the transient slips down on the Harbor and saw several Water Taxi stop signs good um so they do exist they are out there um was it at every single nonresidential Marina or dock no but they're there um and and from what I understand I think Kevin you might be able to answer this more they stop wherever they stop pretty much yeah I've been out there I've seen it okay that's all I needed thank you all right C mtin I was just going to observe that there are quite a few but they were not part if they were not part of your development order I don't think the city has gone back and said okay now you have to do one we talked about incentivizing it at one time by giving them credit on their parking requirements if they would put them in after the fact I we never did that but it might be a direction we could go in give them a credit of nothing else on their bike racks that you know are only used about 10% of the time and let them put in their water taxi because it benefits anybody that's on business down there to have those taxis stopping I think as soon as we get that Mobility plan path there'll be a lot more bikers yeah hopefully all right Ryan what should we ask you about with all your design plans I don't think we've even asked you a single question um well I mean what are you most proud of if you don't have any questions that means I did a good job so um I I'll give you a quick little background um before I actually leave the city of how we got these 50 some um they're generally industry standards so there's nothing too unique about them some of them do have a specific twist to Dustin um but we we pulled a bunch of details from around the country um to to pull from to start creating these and for example like we pulled from P County Panama City Orlando Jacksonville Gainesville forever lawn we use some of theirs Delaware and then City Fort Meyers and so we just looked through all of that and pulled what we thought was the best ideas from all of them to start to create this um I don't know if you noticed on some of our emails uh we have a link we had a link to hey there's a new design manual details check it out here give us feedback we got feedback from one uh one person in the private sector with the that email stuff and then uh we sent out to 15 local Engineers got feedback from them we actually met with about six or seven of them in here and went through them and got feedback from them and made changes and then we sent it out to at least five local contractors and got feedback from them so we've had a lot of eyes on it uh we took it we took it to I think we took it to Public Works Public Safety and then lpa's seen it too um so there's been a lot of work to try to get these drawings to a point that everybody's comfortable with that's awesome thank you well right anything else all right all right good deal all right is that it yeah all right I guess we got public comments and all that um so before that any Council final decisions final questions thoughts comments concerns I just want to make sure there's no like crazy Turf changes in this article we good there I mean it's all the same we used forever lawn's detail to create Arts yeah I heard that yeah I heard that you did com yeah all right public comments sorry I missed in the beginning but that's good cuz I can forget half of what I was going to say um Sandy treml 3823 Indian Trail uh one of the things that I would like to include in the LDC for this is homes built on the diagonal we have three in my neighborhood two of which are pretty junky because right now the current code says you can have you know one car two or two cars one boat two one RV but if this house is built on the diagonal and they fill up their front yard with all of these additional things like there's three covered trailers in this not house trailers but uh construction trailers on the side yard that's unenforcable the front yard should be what faces the road I don't care which orientation the house is in but the front yard should be facing the street so that's not in our current code because we can't get anybody to go over there and do anything about that but it's the same house that you're trying to deal not the same house but different house that you're trying to deal with um I agree with Mr Bagby let's reduce the palm trees they're not local they're not even native to flor if you don't know that um so and the other thing that I think we need to look at is Sego Palms I think we can start eliminating those we already have enough of them in our town anyway but since they're uh deadly to dogs and we're become a dog City I think we need to start looking at that kind of thing the other thing of the palm trees you were talking about the canopy the world's getting hotter I don't care what you say about it it's getting hotter and if we don't provide some of these shades on these sidewalks we're not going to have we're not going to have people walking on them we're not going to have people using them and palm trees don't really shade much um the other thing is the height of the tree limbs right now according to the LDC over a sidewalk is 10 feet if you're riding a bike and you're standing up you just hit your head I think that needs to be elevated to 15 just for safety issues um let's see and the other thing I just wanted to tell you I came back from New Orleans I was in new not New Orleans but Louisiana this weekend and to get to The Venue that I needed to do I was 40 minutes on a 10ft wide Road the thing that made this unique to me was first of all there was no street lights so you couldn't see the road you were going in the dark but in the center of the road where the line is they had double yellow lines and a lot of them because it was curvy but also on the white line on the outside they did rumble strips underneath those that paint so you slowed down because nobody wanted to hit that Rumble strip and it was a 10ft wide road and it it didn't require speed humps it didn't require anything and I was out in the country you could have done 80 M an hour on that road if you wanted to but people were going the speed limit because they didn't want to get out of that 10t lane and hit those rumble strips and all it is is dug into the asphalt it's not really a strip you know but it's just dug into the asphalt they run a little machine down the side so that might be an alternative I just wanted to mention that but um there is a roundabout in Destin it's not really a roundabout but at the end of Cobb's Point there's a huge tree in the middle of the road it's a private road in some of the in some of of the uh country clubs around here they do have roundabouts and they do slow things down and they do put trees in them they're not very big they're only one lane wide and they're only 10 ft so you can barely get around them but they do they do have some traffic calming situations that size wouldn't be too bad in a residential neighborhood just a little hiccup I call them um as far as the water taxies go the harbor CRA board at the time said they were not going to ask anybody to put water taxi stops in unless you were doing more than 50% Redevelopment it was new construction if you chose to that's fine but nobody was making it mandatory unless you did that so thank you thanks Sandy all right anyone else all right seeing no further public comments I will close this Workshop