##VIDEO ID:RJjVF-msPCM## okay good evening everyone welcome to the town of Dion Community preservation committee regular meeting it is Thursday September 19th 2024 we are in person at the prime time building and available via Zoom this meeting is also being recorded and can be viewed at a later date on the town of Dian YouTube channel uh let's please stand for the I pledge algi to the flag of the United States of America the for it stands Nation indivisible Committee Member instructions I'm Kevin Smith chairman and Parkson Rec Wilson Vice chair member at large's historical commission D boarding author Conservation Commission all right so first up we have approved the prior meeting minutes um Everybody Reed those from Elizabeth right see that [Music] we just finished [Music] up we just just started so ready to do meeting minutes motion everybody's ready I'll make motion second motion meting seconded any discussion hearing none all those in favor hi all right next up we have Financial reports and David sent us out an updated copy and then all right and anyone like [Music] so the um front side of this shows the which is it says shows the balances in the current um categories current balances in the categories and it does include there as you can see the uh annual to meeting articles um if you look over to CPA projects there that column refers to the projects that have been approved and so that money is basically already allocated so when you look all the way over to the um remaining uh year to date you need to subtract that the 591 327 64 and that will tell you how much money we have that is not allocated uh to projects right now that's our total now if you go over to the back side we have the summary of what goes into those uh allocated amounts that 591 32764 so that's at the top of the page label active articles and so you can see she's done a great job there of summarizing how much how much you even spent and how much is still to be spent based on past time meeting medical hello folks [Music] good yeah it looks like there's a couple of these that haven't quite caught up like I know so we um the electrical panels at Lincoln Village we did we paid that invoice um I think 2 months ago that got submitted so that should you know remaining balance is really okay it should have been expensed completely but we just might have not caught up a record keeping right that just that won't affect the overall no I'm just good to know that yeah that has been [Music] completely yeah so we actually should see that at some point probably with when accounts close out cuz I know Serena is working on closing out accounts for the end of the fiscal year so that'll probably end up bouncing back down into the fully expended articles probably once she finishes um the books for the year so had you said the previous meeting cabinet you did not expect to use up entirely between the two North Titan playr items 18,000 available so on fencing and on the fencing fence and lighting that was like an older article and we did so what happened with that just to kind of recap everybody is we actually we had engaged Bristol Plymouth to do the work all the material has been purchased we engaged Bristol Plymouth to do the work um but we engaged them like in the fall it ran into the winter kind of got shut down because of the climate but then they didn't re-engage um to complete it so it's kind of like at I would say probably 25% completion as far as well the fencing is done the lighting is what is what remains um we have to at some point we trying to iron out different ways to do it but I think we're at the point we'll probably have to engage the town electrician to just go in and finish it I still don't think we're going to spend all that whole 10 um North Titan playground um same thing there I think there's one section of fencing to go up that pertains to the playground that just didn't happen this summer um but that's like small thing so the that's I want to say that was like around 1,800 bucks and then it's highway highway department works so there won't be any installation cost there so yeah to those two articles that pertain to uh the playground area should not be I don't plan to have expended either one of those in in it should be a balance and are we still waiting on more information for the $200,000 reimbursement for 207 Main Street like how it's going to work you don't couldn't even really know how they were going to make it happen I think the biggest hold up there is that the library building committee has been waiting finalized plans so they can go through the procurement process and engage contractors and that's but payack pieces as I I believe so so and actually unfortunately we were starting to iron that stuff out and that was right when Mike left cuz we were trying to figure out you know is it do we have to keep that money there you know the CPC funding in place and then they'll re it'll get reimbursed to us so I can use the general fund so those details kind of okay got lost when when Mike stepped out so um again it's like it's not really hurting hurting us unless we have some massive project that need the F but I think we can uh just trying to think about total availability there is it's coming it just has reur correct yeah because that won't I don't think we'll see that reimbursement until the work's completed anyway so right because usually it's reimbursement so you have to extend the funds first and then they reimburse you for it so on that Agra um we waiting on some engineering plans and then you know for it to go up to the project is a little behind where they anticipated and um but with that Grant it is open ended it doesn't have to be expended by a certain dat so but you have to expend it before you get it right right one way or the other yeah okay yeah it is good to know that it doesn't expire that's usually what gets you yeah if you um yeah it's almost like a permanent ear Mark for that for that purpose so down here when you look at the phase two for the survey there's a note here that says um 12,500 reur from the state um we didn't get a grant from for that so there will be no reimbursement from the state for that pH to it was just on the phase one that we did right well then that one's yeah that one's been expensive but there's no reur coming from the state we could always hope right you did get it on phase one though already on phase one yeah come back to you um we kind of segue right into project updates anyway so I'll just ask this question too so on the newer the historical property identification didn't you say that you received a lower quote than what you contract is for 2500 so um you know for Stacy spies that contract is signed and she's has already begun working on it she should be in town probably the beginning of October doing you know a little more research and stuff so that's on track that project's on track well and to just to go to the Pleasant Street Boat Boat Ramp is still kind of in limbo for the same reasons that we were starting to engage and and and talk about it more but then when Mike left it kind of threw us off track there so I got to get back on track with the board of Selectmen and and talk more about that project and where we're at um with [Music] that and know I don't think I'm not aware that the trails committee is I can follow up with Jeff to see if they've done anything yet on the on the broad Cove project I'm not sure if anybody's heard anything I haven't heard that they've engaged any contractors or or started anything with that project yet but we can follow so that we have some more information on that in our next meeting that it for a financial yeah so um we have any kind of thoughts of schedule for the library that just kind of when will basically when will it open oh they're looking at um August 2025 for um occupancy and to the open um so that's the they're aiming for now the insides they've done some work on the inside um what's his name um Plan B Construction they did the outside the shingles so they've been doing some of the work on the the front steps and SE down there every day yeah come yeah I think as far as we're we're concerned we'll probably we'll probably see the age back as it pertains to our funding the HVAC will probably be completed prior to opening so have more information as it pertains to us I would expect I know J's working on that get that going so do anybody else so we'll move on to Old business the first thing we had was just project updates but I think we kind of covered everything under the financial report anybody has any to know so we'll skip right on to the d Housing authori um application of Eligibility um I had sent out some information to you guys that um the director had sent out to us one thing that additional document that was sent but I could not get to um it just would not forward it was too big it was like a 600 something megabyte I mean 16 megabyte 260 page document so I just couldn't get it to move along don't hit but just so you guys know so you know I would just want to I'm going to pull it up I'm going to share my screen quick so it's up there just so everyone's aware of what the document was [Music] um so it was a it was pretty much the entire invitation to bid um the whole entire project manual and I did try my best to really read through a fair amount of it the other night so according to the table of context there was a summary of work but the summary of work was broken down so we're going to scroll through about a 100 pages of just contractual stuff about wages and things like that so there was a very little bit about the work but it pertained more to the work to be performed and some as bestus of batement it didn't really my opinion fill in any blanks for us um got references good luck if you can read it entally what was sent to us was this is pretty much the contractor documents to bid the project there wasn't anything that really spoke on the current conditions it was more explaining the details of the work to be done so I just wanted to make everybody a way that we did have this but it didn't really have any permanent information so I found it yeah so even in the summary of work it pretty much just outlined um you know the all work either shown on the drawings are included in the specifications um the project shall consist of but not limited to the removal of exterior VY sting system exterior windows and installation of new component sting system system in inviting window assemblies asbest asbest abatement activities are required for this project contractor shall be responsible for providing and paying for a construction Administration software application to used by all participants um and that was the building will be occupied during construction so there's really no mention of the current conditions it's more um on the construction end of things um get out of that quick and I will I'll pull up the other one fast which had the drawings and such so this does this one does kind of provide at least a little bit of something as far as um what needs to be done again it doesn't show it doesn't really have much mention of the current condition it just shows you that you know the demolition of each W window it g it does give you the current condition so what side any exists the wood trim um wood windows and then it just shows you what what it'll be replaced with but there's no real again no real mention of the condition outside of the letter from the project manager shall I I can open up the floor to comments on that I felt like again it put us right back in our original dilemma where it talked about you know they not they're not easy to use it's an efficiency issue so it's like it kind of I I still would have liked to seen some form of evidence that there was detrimental effect on the building envelope because of these but it didn't sound like that was the main focus to me I agree couple of quick questions if I could do we know if there these windows have ever been reconstructed in the past number one and number two has anyone because I haven't unless I missed it in documents that you sent out before do we know regardless of the contract there have they put in for any state or federal funds for this project and do they have an anticipation on any that no because that's irrelevant to application of Eligibility so we haven't even asked that question yet that's like like when that's kind of what we went through the first time we reviewed this is some of the questions that we have are funding questions not eligibility questions so what they apply for is again irrelevant it's we're just making that determination whether or not we view this as a maintenance project which would make it ineligible or there is a detriment to the building envelope and that which makes it eligible I guess that's that was part of the reason for my first question is in terms of theability I'd like to know if this has ever been done before or if this is first time so we did have um see I that in his letter it did it did mention um it just says would she go sighting show signs of deterioration of water inion but then when it talks about the windows it's about the efficiency not working properly so the only truly deterioration and structural issue they talked about is those wood shingle siding that he spells out here isn't there is there a no in there when the building was built or that might have been in the original siding was done afterwards after it was built cracks in the side so they had to cover that up so they put the siding and if there's aestus present I would assume at some point there was aestus siding and you know portions of it were replaced or covered over so again I just personally I'm leaning more towards this Falls outside of the parameters of CPA and it's things that should have been addressed during regular maintenance it's not but that's again that's my opinion that's how I feel too based upon the letter it seems more that it's efficiencies and regular maintenance and you know changing out windows that have run their cor not that it's actually causing any structural deficiencies to the building itself right I I concur that was my impression too I saw a lot more in the letters about U Energy Efficiency than I think about any kind of know structural Integrity or actual physical deterioration of the building I guess I'm I'm I'm trying to wrap my head around whether or not for the application there's an historical component that we need to consider and I'm I'm historical application I I guess for I'm I'm just trying to wrap my head around what the need is anything above efficiency well just it's just it's an affordable housing project that's the only determination is how it fits under the into the affordable housing component of CPA eligibility it's really we can't Pig you know we're not piggybacking on multiple things to make it work I guess would be the best way to put it they um they sent an additional letter which I'm looking for I can't find now but you would send it out to everyone they sent an additional letter or note like really going into detail on the CDC eligibility rules and how this fit remember that so no I sent out the guidelines and I and we had a kind of deep conversation about not leading you know a horse to water type of thing and but we did ask when we asked the only letter that we received is the is what Dan had just mentioned which was um sent out um as part of this packet from the um that was the one that came as a secondary email secondary correct yeah that's that's yeah that's the one that I the manager of the project yes yeah yeah I thought there was one back at the time of the the first want no I think in the eligib in their original application they kind of checked off the boxes on their own um that it fell under those determinations but it it it hasn't quite worked out that way what it really fits the parameters of everything that we' we've read again too just kind of as a general kind of thought is because it's a state aided facility and wasn't created with our funds we kind of were a little bit handcuffed if it was something that was created with CPA funds then we could we could have done this all day long we didn't exist at the time right but just like so just so everyone's aware so if we ever did create some form of affordable housing we do have the ability to maintain it it's the only category that you can really maintain um but it would have would have to be created with CPA fund so just kind of moving forward as if those things ever do happen we do have a capability just not on this particular project right Mr chairman I wasn't at the the original meeting when this was presented um my question is unless I'm again missing something has anyone from the Housing Authority directly addressed our board at all to discuss this with us in person because you know I'm inclined to reject it personally but I'd like to hear from them personally you know what their rationale what their reasoning is for submitting other than just what's on paper no the only correspondents we've have we've had is the application itself and then the additional documents that was sent by the director so nobody has made a formal presentation but I think almost at this point you know we would kind of even if we brought somebody in it would be a conversation trying to steer it towards eligibility where we think we've seen enough to know that it's you know not eligible and that's not our job really right you know I think it would be somebody trying to convince us to you know I think they would in the application make the parameters a little bit more gray to fit fit it in it would be kind of right we don't want to be in the position of inadvertently coaching somebody through their application right which was what we kind of said on the in the first point was we don't want to reply and be like oh well you know it's this is what you need it's only the windows leaked yeah yeah exactly when you read their their description in the project summary they're talking about that this is a part of a plan you know they've already done building a and Building B is next M you know so it's all part of their maintenance plan right that's the way it's looking to me every building will have to be done right so and the goal is to make them more energy efficient said so they're stting what the goal is is not to preserve The Preserve the buildings to make it more energy efficient um so this is a maintenance plan that they've already done some work on and they're proceeding what are there rebuilds there a and C yeah or D excuse the a b c and d a as it gooses the ABC to H H yeah we so it's part of their maintenance right so yeah it's pretty well outlined that it's a maintenance issue not that you know the building is failing anyway yeah and then they thr the word long-term preservation at the end um of the buildings the buildings are 50 years old it was construed in 1974 they have other funds available too because they're all electric go to the electric company and say we're all electric yeah well that too I think that's a whole another conversation if it would have transpired into that that it's a state funded facility so there should be a maintenance plan to address these things regardless I think you know due to our limited funding would be a building it now it would be a tough sell for me to you know to approve funding just to be honest yeah we need a motion to deny I'd like to make a motion to deny the application that's written for theing Authority second motion made and seconded any other discussion hearing none all those in favor and Jonathan any oppion sorry to abandon everybody but I'm catch thank you than more important than have a great day everybody all right so next up we have new business review discuss and act the historical commission's application of eligibility for the M excuse me finishing uh National register of historic places it's enough I'm not going to block you get on the floor is yours um as you know we've been doing our surveys um and the M hope area came out at the preservation consultant recommended that it me in her opinion could possibly meet some of the criteria to qualify for the national register of historic places so um the commission went ahead and submitted the request to the mass historical commission and we got word in April that they did consider that there was enough architectural Integrity in the area still to be considered um as eligible for the national register so what we're asking for is for Stacy spies to complete this work to complete the nomination packet that has to go to the mass historical commission um and they review it so they'll review the nomination for form and the cost is $88,500 so the process is that Stacy will work on it and we're going to use Stacy again because she's familiar with Titan she's done all our other surveys she's working on West Titan it doesn't have to go out to bid because it's under 10,000 um so you know she will uh answer some of the questions that mass historical commission had um provide the the pictures that are needed um some maps uh it'll go to the and then she submits it and presents it to uh the that's historical commission they review it and they submit it to the state review board at that point the state review board takes a look at it and they will say yes or no um whether we can go to the National Park Service to be look that at the federal level um this process can take up to two years right now um she figures it would take 30 weeks to get the nomination form you know um put together and um into the max historical commission and it would take up to two years from there so just so you know the national register uh was established in 1966 it was under the National Historic preservation Act um like I said it's administered by the National Park Service and the Massachusetts historical commission it encourages preservation it doesn't guarantee it um although you have to have in the architectural exterior Integrity in the area um for it to be considered once it's on the register there's no obligation for the owner to maintain the property they can do whatever they want to if they can demolish it they can add on to it it could change the status with the National Park Service and the historical commission they're so swamped with stuff that that would take like forever um so there's no restrictions on property owners this is just an honorary designation so uh municipalities and nonprofits that are in that area if you're in a national register District you can apply for grant funding under the national register there are some federal tax incentives to um that may apply to income producing properties that are in the area um and it's kind of to encourage the capital investment and you know the rehabing of historic properties so you know like something could you know a business could go into and they put BR the building back up maybe storefront on the bottom apartments on the top whatever your configuration is you know so it revitalizes the area um I was thinking about Mount I was like oh my what could they do there because I don't have the money to invest so never [Music] mind um can I can I just interrupt you and ask you what so what exactly does this Encompass cuz like we're saying District so for the mount po area it's like where the factory is and what's considered Mount Hope Village which is um some of Pearl Street Mount Hope Street Bedford Street um Andrew Street Chase Street Park Park Streets On It B Street you know it's that little area that's that's there you get to Bailey Street it's those houses are not considered in the the Mount Hope Village area um even though at one point in time M hope did own that land those some of those houses are more from the 1940s 1950s so they're a little bit later okay so it's like that little nucleus area and you know where you see a lot of the houses that look the same um you know the ones on Chase Street there's a couple that are actually um over the T line on Summer Street we South Walker Street there's one or two that mass historical commission said to kind of pull in because they are houses um and also to take a look at um what was divine's Farm because the farm was part of M there are probably four smaller houses that were in that on that part that's across from the plant it's all trees now originally there was probably about four very small houses that were there they have been moved one is a garage I think Andrew Street and one is on Autumn Street that I don't know where the other two went to so that they would be included those Parks have some historic significance in the too because of the designer right because Olstead brothers did those parks and they did the plantings around the houses so that is another possible Criterion that um under a landscape architect that the M area could um qualify as National register so it's a a significant history um and something we should be very proud of the biggest thing that is important and what people don't realize is the difference between the national register what we're asking for here and a local historic district so when you do a local historic district that is by local Town bylaw so we come in front of it town meeting the and that too is a lot a lot of discussion with property owners you know with Town boards as to whether that kind of district is really necessary and needed for your your town um and that again takes a long time to do we have the W's District right that's a national leg oh that's National National dton does not have any local historic districts right now [Music] MH so when you speaking about the opportunity for Grants or any kind of for preservation purposes that would include the town itself for example the fire station right right the town does not own the park in front of the um the mill has been T from various owners from time to time about donating it whoever the Comm of the town could there may be funds available to help maintain that reusing another passion whatever the trip I'm not sure about all that yeah but um once the municipalities on you know it opens up some of that grant money yeah looks take this some pretty good opportun you know possible opportunities yeah there possible opportunities you know um which I I think are worth exploring well I think too when you if you you know if this all works out it does to if you encourage the property owner to store it at least externally you know to its original and then the inside can be the insides are not when it's in a district with a national registered District they just look at the exterior and that's what I mean like you could transforming interior to whatever you wish but it would be nice to see it keep its character right which I think is one concern about the possible progression of that part portion of town is that the look is going to change the look will change the look is already start starting to change did you have some homes that were um part of the you know the worker houses and all of that that have been remodeled at this point to such a point they don't have the Integrity anymore the architectural exterior Integrity um if you were looking at just a single home the interior would be looked at as far as if it's still you know um historic you know um there's a I I think there's a lot of questions you know because people put you know in um bi sighting and you know the vinyl windows and um and it's a decision that the home owner has to make versus you know windows that are leaky and all of that versus energy efficient you know so there is a dilemma you know but there also ways to do it um that it looks historic still that it keeps the integrity yeah I think it just when you do place that tag on it though you I think people become more mindful of trying like I think like downtown Newport is a great example I've been a part of some pretty extensive Rehabilitation projects down there but the exterior of the house like right is still you know preser the historic value is still preserved so when you get into that neighborhood people tend to want to carry on that Legacy so if if I ask a couple of questions and I'm probably easier since instead of back and forth for me as usual to ask my questions first which is one is the one of the questions will be could this by doing anything potentially have any effect on any zoning ordinances locally in that area in the future if there was ever a thought of changing any of the zoning have an effect on this another question I would have is by doing this what does that potentially open open that area area up to with regard to Future state or federal grants or National Registry grants or anything like that for other restoration projects because it seems to me in that respect this could be an advantage to do as well um I'll start with those two for now I don't know if you could answer either of them the zoning I don't know um I don't know the I can answer the zoning you can answer the only way to change the zoning is to propose a zoning bylaw change and bring it before a town meeting and it needs to pass by 2/3 so like I don't think say if there was a the attitude of the town was to change the zoning and this tied into that in some way it could be helpful it could be hurtful I don't know but that's you know would essentially have no effects on our bylaw that would have to come within town meeting right and as far as your second question had to do with grants and stuff the grants that become available are to um the municipalities who come to the town or nonprofits that were situated in the area that had a historic um building um and that would be for the renovation of that building there are some tax incentives like I said at the federal level for revitalization um unfortunately for the homeowner there isn't any incentives to Grants or anything available for commercial no as far as I know it's it has to be either by town or the nonprofits the taxes the taxes though Pro for commercial I would but that would have to be no I just meant yeah revitalized build itself the property owner in any way that owner is in in terms of Ree and infastructure they could go for Grants they could go for Grants yes is there any chance that we're imposing any undue restrictions on homeowners by doing this no because once you have the national register designation the homeowner is not obligated to do anything they do not have to keep their property up they don't have to pay it they don't have to keep the lawn up they can just Let It Rock so they could it if they still choose they could demolish it if they so choose course we would we would all scream but well that's the thing they trying to establish a culture of historic preservation in that area so it's a beginning right yeah um well I would just say just cuz all we have on here PO is ibility and I think it's evident that it's eligible because it's in line with the smaller surveys you've done I will just kind of bring up that if we do have I don't know timeline wise if this is something that can wait till we turn the corner and go towards June or if it's something that you know you guys were of the attitude that you wanted to move a little bit more quickly on we wanted it done yesterday yeah well I'm just saying what we could do is I know Town town meeting warrants close on the 23rd we can put a placeholder and if we adjust our October meeting to talk about funding we can you know squeeze it in if if need be if that's okay with the committee that would be lovely yeah it's a long time you know until June is a long time that we question just to be clear so of the 8500 is it that 7500 is for um the SP histor pres consult $1,000 is part of the fee for filing with the state or is the entire 8500 part of the survey costs the 85 that's total cost that will go to um St okay that was my concern I just didn't know if there was $1,000 Fe for filing I wasn't sure that covered but she says it's you okay payable at the time of the presentation to the state review so we have to pay her refer the bulk of it done and then when she wraps it up at the state review the so I I'll entertain a motion to approve the historical commission's application of Eligibility motion to approve the historical application elig that title any other discussion all those in favor I right thank you um just so you know on Monday we are meeting with the property owners from North bton to talk about this so that we can have the conversation started and you're more than welcome to join us um be where at Old Town Hall Monday at 7 o' at Old Town Hall 7 o' yeah and oh in October I won't be here but Raa will come okay I'll give them all the notes yeah I think we going to have the VL of the V of the information was in your application yeah so I'll just fill out the form you and send it to you very good thank you anybody else have any other new business any public input I think we have anybody else on Zoom um motion to ad motion to adour second second all those in fav we adjourned at 6 we sent it to um the homeowners sent invitation a mail yeah and then it's posted public meeting we talked about