##VIDEO ID:dGLLY_RTziE## just uh apologize for being late sorry you're on okay we're about to open the D Conservation Commission uh public uh meeting uh it's Thursday uh September 19 2024 uh we're opening a little bit late due to technical problems uh at Oldtown Hall uh 1111 Somerset Avenue this meeting is video and audio recorded for cable broadcast and Internet Posting on www.don DM mas.gov and YouTube let's stand for the Pledge of Allegiance Al to the flag of the United States of America to the republ for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all our first item on the agenda is an abbreviated notice of resource area delineation from KY rebello Bell Pharma States seeking confirmation of wetland resources at zero milk street map 17 lots 109135 and 208 file number 17- 489 there we go okay that just this is a continuance of the the uh getting it the inrad approved um okay yeah so um we had phase C completed is it review uh Weston and Samson pH yeah the final yeah yeah and and um and then um Megan and I went out with Wetland scientists and did another walk through um so we're happy now with the wetlands that are shown on here the only thing I just noticed this afternoon was this's still not a 50 foot no build Zone added this is a 25 and the 100 but not the 50 so um that can be added on the map though uh since they you are aware of that that shouldn't be a problem yeah if they just edit it and um you know send it to me next week then I'll issue the oad um if you guys um the only thing is you know the other two things actually is the two veral pools we talked about that in the field typically we've been requiring everybody to certify the veral pools so with the oad but um you're going to be coming back with the notice of intent correct yeah notice yeah for the for the beginning process of the you know development and stuff like that yeah yeah I mean what's your I think you could put it as a condition the notice of intent you could certify them um okay and then maybe just a condition in the O if you issue it tonight saying the plan will be updated with the 50 Foot yeah no builds and submitted yeah Oh you mean submit the oad based on this one or I could wait you know we we could votee to submit I mean is to approve it and what map is that that's going to be a an anrad plan but we're going to need a new new date okay but we will uh um approve the inrad as adjusted yeah yeah with the modification yeah okay there there's no literature in the document that's going to be changed so the document's good it's just it's just a plan no right yeah yeah well it's just the 50 Foot needs to be added on each of these M um yeah I'm comfortable with it now okay so uh then what I'm looking for then is a motion to accept the nrad with the modifications as defined by uh agent and Weston and Samson sove is there a second I'll second it all in favor okay thank you thank you oh so just have them email them and then have them let me you know send it over is it 50 foot 50 foot set back 50 foot no build no build around theal pools everything around everything okay there's a 50 foot no build all the wetlands have all wet yeah okay okay the next item on the agenda is from uh grasshopper energy on Brook Street uh that has been tabled to a date uncertain uh at that time budas would need to get re notified is there a motion to continue that one continue to certain requ I I don't I'm not certain if we need to um uh continue it every meeting or just leave it as to a date uncertain to a date uncertain okay so we so we'll just we'll just leave it as is and then we'll come back to it next month uh review discuss act on a continued hearing it's abbreviated notice of area resource delineation uh the applicate is David E Butler seeking confirmation of wetlands at 833 William Street map 8 lot 20 uh file number 17-4 99 uh they requested a continuance okay and you have that okay Weston and Samson has to complete their phase B motion to continue the application for 833 Willam street second all in favor okay review discuss act on a continued hearing abbreviated notice of area delineation application by Tyler Ry uh seeking confirmation of werland at0 Oak Street map 6 lot 9113 and 14a file number 17-52 hi good evening my name is Mark berson with Epsilon Associates here on behalf of the applicant this evening uh professional Wetland scientist working on the project just as a recap this is our third hearing on this matter uh the last hearing uh there was just two items requested by the commission to to wrap up this uh this application that was to certify the five veronal pools that are on the property um we have done that with natural heritage we've sent the paperwork um to Lisa um and also we were asked to delate or locate the center line of the stream the intermittent stream that was on the property along with some large glacial erratic features in the Wetland system so we went out and Field located uh both of those features added them to the map and sent the revised plan into Lisa and the commission okay just 11 by we can send a larger set if you want for the file yeah be good yeah just are we going to be good to go with this or if you guys just want to take a look at it okay well send one down here and uh and then uh AEL and I can look here you two can look at that one and uh okay and just just for context I mean prior to to this last meeting um we had field reviewed the wetlands in the field with Weston and Samson um there were no there were no changes to our flag so essentially the Wetland boundaries were were agreed upon previously uh the plan that you're looking at now you'll see the Wetland system number on sheet N9 and six you actually have to turn to the detail sheet to see the stream and the glacial erratics in that system so if you turn to sheet six and N you'll see that we added those features at at a better scale this right here open the got she some now we are now the abds to this property correct is it not showing up on the PDF that I sent you had it I did did we print the wrong set I actually actually I like this map here because it's showing the whole thing and all the uh the veral I think my my admin printed out the wrong side four five five and we okay here's the ball cover only references the so I don't know did you guys we did did so the the PDF the PDF document that I sent you had it um when I asked our admin to send to print the hard copies out she must have grabbed the old the old plan set yeah the old 23 24 that's correct so yeah I don't bought them here no I know the the electronic version we have I apologize I I guess I I I thought I was going to be set to go I didn't print the set set out and bring it with me on the board so let me see if I have it in my email thank you the email that you me show yeah you did say that Lisa if you're able to find it then we should be good sorry if I if I can approach the commission we do the PDF that we sent you'll see does show the stream channel there in Wetland system too and there's some glacials in there as well see the those circles I apologize for the oversight unprinted the old set so this is the PDF that we sent for the record and I'll I'll print out a larger scale so this is so this is this won system here is what my email doing trans right away see there's stream system there and those are the glacial erratics that we located okay all right so now uh Oak Street is here Oak Street's right down by 10 well no this would be the SE over here all right Mak a turn here okay all right then it goes that way do it on here all right think can you yeah because here this is the one he sent me we sent this to a neighbor requesting it but you can see the stream is marked there the GLA rtics are also marked can I just look at the yeah well I see the ball fields and whatnot here yeah no I'm just 29 so you guys are going to send that again yes so um you should not be able to go through this land dated 829 would be the I apologize for having the sending the wrong plan what is it re yeah cuz I sent it to Megan I'll it to you again the top of to the chaos there [Laughter] thanks go around the corner gravel across the road right there thank you yeah and then they go on a street on the other end just before you went over the river don't gravel there that whole section of Road will shut off all do it cat pass you know where the telephone Tower is I bet I'm going to find it right now that was the only place wooded right over here at Thea are we all set to to uh make a decision on this I would say so okay um you know are there any um work that they have to do to set to forward to you the the new maps that you showed us on your phone okay you're going to uh um all right so what we're going to want is an approval of the en rad um with the applicant sending uh the newest version version to us well we do have it but we need a paper copy okay all right we do have it okay A a d-size print correct large scale yeah definitely okay um but yeah I didn't get it okay uh is there a motion to accept the nrad on motion to accept the anrad subject to receipt of hard copy by the conservation agent of the updated and rated 24 all second all in favor 82 829 thank you 829 82 okay we'll we'll change that do you want an update a motion um sure you can okay sure motion to accept the an rad subject to receipt by the conservation agent of the updated anra dat 29 I'll second that all in favor hi okay thank you thanks for your flexibility on that sorry for the oversight okay appreciate it okay next on the agenda is a notice of intent from Lee Castanet Hunter Hill uh to construct a community center with Associated meal boxes parking pool Sports Court along with Associated clearing and Grading at Hunters Hill map 21 lot 66a 7812 23 37-46 and map 22 lot 5 6-02 map 23 Lot 8 file number 17- 58 should I disqualify myself okay all right we have a member of the commission uh who is going to disqualify himself uh uh for being involved at some previous time with this project okay he will not be speaking uh just want to step down okay no I can look at that I got a smaller one here right I I can see fine I think this is the same thing I believe yeah I got my glasses on I can do you want to look at as an as a right thank you very much Mr chairman uh for the record it's Evan Watson W engineering representing the applicant um before we get started with that I brought a uh a prop with me tonight because when we have a lot of homes in this uh Hunters Hill Community and one of the conditions is that we um put out some of the placards so uh we're proposing this carite post with the plard on it so um if you want to see it okay yeah that looks familiar that that that yeah yeah we we paid a dollar and we got one okay yeah that that'll this vinal will last forever yeah this is a fiberglass fiberglass okay it kind of Blends in and be good for the home owners but the signs will still be very good you can put this on your first location yeah they're going to be yep exactly at1 how far down to the ground of those go how hard the ground going about yeah they probably well they they put a line there so maybe got to that line so it's about this the height of a post and real fence post is what it end up being go I was just curious because it looks like it has a little bit of gift to it I it does yeah which is good too cuz if you bump it with the yo or something it's not going to snap off you know um so anyways we uh open the hearing um at your last meeting and we went over the plans and uh the board voted to have Weston and Samson take a look at it and so we've since uh received a comment letter from them and we responded to that letter uh with an updated set of plans and I will go over the few minor changes um that were recommended and that we did so if you recall we have the community center here along Clubhouse Drive they asked us to add an infiltration system to take any of the roof run off which we were happy to do and that was your oh and then to identify the catch basins that would require a silt sack so we added those to the plan uh the other thing that they asked us to do is all this storm water that uh gets into this piping goes to storm water basin four at the end of boxwood Lane and they correctly identified that there was no sediment forb installed in that uh by the previous devel uh owner so uh we committed to installing a foray Dy uh there so that will help only help to improve the the quality of the storm water at the Basin and then the last change uh they asked us to do is uh some of the plant uh names and the status was incorrect so we updated that and then they asked um that we add from plantings in the buffer zone area uh Lisa and I did a site walk on Tuesday and took a look at that um you know and not I'm not sure what her opinion is on whether or not we need more plants or not but if the commission wants us to uh add more plants you know that that'd be fine if we wanted to have that condition um yeah so it's the square footage is um for the each area is so it's 8200 for the Wetland mitigation area and um what is it for the enhancement area I think it was like about 9500 all right it was in the comment letter and I'm sorry was the um comment number on that it's on the second page it's the last comment on the second page thank you very much oh so it's 20,000 Square ft of buone enhan um and how many so we show seven 72 plants proposed in the Wetland mitigation area and 92 plants in the buffer enhancement area yeah I mean I almost feel like it's like it's kind of shy some plants um so maybe some more plants and then I was thinking some invasive sort cuz there's Autumn Olive out there so the last thing we want is for it to get planted and then get taken over by Autumn Olive yeah oh do you want this pointed towards the camera yeah I think they have coffe you don't mind thank you thank you sir yeah the ga a condition for removal of invasive species be okay yeah that that you know we if we satisfied with everything else yeah I mean I think we need more plants though so there's that that can be put into the otter conditions if we want to say something like we could increase the number of plants by up to 30% or percentage you know um that way we can budget for that number and as we're planting um we can we can do it in the field and I like I like like the plant list um seems like stuff that you already got out there so I was happy with that the invasives were the big concern there um yeah there weren't too many I don't think it needs a whole invasive spe um mitigation program but there's you know a few autom olives that we could pluck out certainly yeah and you're going to do two years of monitoring with reports with photographs okay yeah sounds good I forgot to introduce the rest of our team we have Brian Madden here from LEC who would be the uh Wetland specialist uh overseeing the mitigation area and then Lee castignetti from Longville homes is with me as well I and then you know I know you going going down each one of the why don't you keep going down each yeah I can go down um the the letter is relatively clean we've addressed most of the comments and the only thing that um we didn't receive uh that the comment was addressed they had a recommendation for a condition of approval and we have no problem with any of their recommendations so yeah I mean I I don't I would like to go down each one of them because yeah I'm going to I'm going to do that yeah yep yep no I didn't want to go through all the ones where the comment was addressed just the ones that has an open issue um so the next one was um something about test pits um you know this area here is stripped of top soil there so in the spring and winter time you can actually see water kind of bubbling up out of the ground and flowing over land so we didn't find the need to do test pits however they recommended that the commission um asked the Wetland uh scientist when he's overseeing things to ensure that we're in the water table and we're at the right elevation so we have no issue with that um we agree that a wetland scientist should be present that's the next one um uh we specified some stones and branches be placed um in the mitigation area to increase habitat you know a resting spot for a bird or a frog or something to to rest on and I don't think too much rocks is necessary no no there's plenty of rocks there right and then branches there to you know provide shade or like a um a shelter area for migrating birds and things so um I think the concern is that we just just didn't take all of the branches and all the rocks and pile them in there so um that will be done on the direction of the Wetland scientist so we have no problem with that um we also specified to have some leaves um put in there to provide a source of uh natural compost from the surrounding area and um it was just a concern that we didn't use leaves from areas that may have invasives so um the Wetland scientists can Source the uh identify the source of the leaves we have no problem with that um we were asked to um part of a feature of our mitigation area it's right next to a Vernal pool that we um talked about during the overall notice of intent and we want to um enhance that area because it's it's just really small it might be maybe a couple times maybe the size of leas is table if if that so uh right next to that in the mitigation area we're planning on providing more verol habitat and um part of the monitoring if that does actually succeed in being verol habitat we would certify it with natural heritage so no problem with that um and then on to the storm water um he recommended that we did test pits um again I cited that we added the infiltration area on the side um I have the bottom 2 foot above the existing grades so I know it won't be um within the water table but he recommended that we should maybe do a test pit in that area before we start construction uh we have no problem with doing that we can do that um comment addressed comment addressed addressed and then the last thing was we have uh the elicit discharge compliance statement with the original uh order and just to accept that as our um illicit discharge compliance statement so so that's it uh everything else uh We've addressed their comments and uh we would like to uh ask the board to to close the hearing and uh to vote on whether or not to issue an order of conditions um okay we have no other problem yeah there was one other question was the water quality so um because the sites in an orw we just wanted to We Can't hold it up for this but we could condition it that they need to um check with the EP to see if um a water quality permit is needed yeah I think probably in this instance you know what I generally see most commissions do is just have like a a a generic statement that the applicant shall comply with all state federal and local requirements and permits and that would behoove them to yeah confirm that yeah because it's half of the a lot of the sites in ANW and then some of it isn't but this portion is yeah in that kind of boilerplate language would address that concern yeah I mean we would be copied on it when they submit it so okay all right well yeah just to provide a little bit more color to that so the isolated Wetland is a nonfederal wetland under uh existing rules and regulations um while it's within the mapped public water supply Watershed uh for the orw which is the somerset Reservoir the ivw itself is not an orw it's only an orw an outstanding resource water if it's a tributary or connected to a wetland that discharges to the reservoir um so the orw and the current Army Corps regulations and based on a Supreme Court decision sacket decision are pretty clear that isolated wetlands are non uh federally jurisdictional so there's a disconnect there but and and we've had recent conversations with DP Boston to confirm that um isolated Wetlands do not require water quality CT if you're altering them um so but we can that's funny because we have a bureau of resource protection guidance document from d and it says major Phil ex excavation project versus Miner and a minor project a cumulative loss of 5,000 square feet of bordering or isolated vegetated Wetland um is required the caveat there is if the ivw is protected at the federal level which those rules and regulations have changed since that document has been issued it's well this was July 24 okay this is two months ago I don't know you can have isolated Wetlands sometimes that our jurisdictional but in this instance it's um we're not above the 5,000 square feet threshold I guess can I ask a question yeah so if we're if we're asking the applicant to check with the regarding withs they concur with the applicant they can ask to check yep and then you would follow the paperwork to us as as to their reply yep we can do that okay it sounds sounds perfect okay uh looking for a motion to close the hearing and issue an order of conditions for uh Hunter's Hill uh there separate motions want to close the hearing window and to issue no that I'm doing it together to to close the hearing and issue an order of conditions and we need to issue orders onto each the local and the so we'll have two sets Okay well well if I just say order of conditions it would uh you need two motions okay all right then we'll do um so now you need three okay Lisa would like to see three one to close the hearing sounds great I'd like to propose a motion to close the hearing I'll second all in favor hi I would like to propose a motion to approve with conditions under the W protection act second all in favor I hi I would like toose a motion to approve with conditions under the local bylaw second all in favor okay you're good to go thank you very much doesn't want to stay with right thank you thank you now okay next on the agenda is a notice of intent from Peter uh kofer uh 737 Treon Street lot uh map 9 lot 41 to construct a septic system repair with associate grading and disturbance within 100 foot uh buffer zone of the wetlands uh a continuance as requested by sfg motion to continue until 10724 second all in favor now Lisa this is the one for U uh to relocate the original position uh away from the uh further away oh they're exploring they're doing some test pits in the back okay that's I just okay um look review discuss act for a certificate of compliance request from BW see Greenbrook LLC located 903 Treemont Street and 224 uh Middle Street 624 uh 624 uh SE file number 17- 432 um so we have not gotten anything from Weston and Samson yet because um this was on hold due to them contacting the state ethics board and since then they've gotten um they filed the necessary paperwork so okay so it's going to be continued yeah I think they'll probably be working on it over the next course the next month yeah okay uh a motion to well it's not a hearing it's a um to continue their request right okay is there a motion to uh hear their requests for a certificate compliance on our October uh meeting what date is that Lisa October 17th 17 okay is there a motion to um view the the request for a certificate of compliance on our October 17th meeting second all in favor by thank you very much I don't know how it works for Abel I think he can vote on this one but B on he wasn't here for the beginning of the project maybe it's I don't know if it matters if he votes or not how many public hearings happened well well so we already issued the order and they're closing it out now so I think you guys were all here when we issued the order I'm just not sure that because he wasn't here when we issued the order if he can how many hearings under the mullen's rule you can miss one hearing well this is not a hearing this is just a request to close I'm not I'm not posi yeah I mean you can vote on it but your vote might not count that's all all right well anyways uh let's so this is for 2651 Pleasant Street for Aaron Raposa um you may recall they had an order issued to them about a year ago on October 26 for a new garage and along with the new garage we um had them move a few sheds and leave a wetland that they had been previously cutting to grow in um this is the the bird farm so we have a request here to close out um I did conduct a site visit with Mr Mariano and um comfortable with the garage um comfortable where they put the permanent placards and they even planted a few trees for mitigation some red Maples but I would say at this time I would hold off on issuing a complete certification because we want to make sure that those red Maples grow in so we could issue a partial and then after the spring next year or or even in the fall they could come back for a full and I've already told the engineer that that's what I was going to suggest he's not here okay all right uh um I don't see any reason why we can't off uh issue a a partial certificate and and do that and then finish it up in the spring uh the full certificate of compliance um it's for work already done not work to be done and the site is stabilized so if you drive by it there's full vegetation um you really you know there's not there's no silk running off there's no concern that way okay uh is there a motion to to issue a partial certificate of compliance second all in favor I and I move the agenda around a little bit I hope you guys are okay with that I'm just so from what we previous we we usually do you know we usually do the other business before the enforcement stuff but I thought um maybe we could do it this way it's up to you guys I could always move it back for next meeting yeah no that that's fine I think we've got some attendees here tonight it might be in regards to this I think earlier is better than to having okay great that was my thought too um we did get an email from Mr duser regarding 2371 County Street he asked for continuance he's out of state okay wait a minute we are um which one are we on now under enforce right but the first one not the first one y 2371 County Street the bottom of page one okay all right okay so uh he requested a continuance yeah he did okay um Jim I think attorney Z Jack might be uh looking yeah I'm happy to come forward on that I okay all right I I did get the same email from from Mr duza um and I've been in contact with him during the week he actually until yesterday planned to be back yesterday and be here for the meeting um as you know he does a lot of work for the Department of Defense and he is on a project for them and they asked him to uh to stay over and continue to work on that project and that's why he could not be here this evening I had spoken with him last week um he was on that project expecting to be back yesterday and then this afternoon emailed you and us telling us that he he was not going to be available so he has two want to come back either I love Wisconsin I wouldn't want to come back either so he has two very important jobs he does um I mean there same job for different clients and this one happens to be in Wisconsin or or wherever they send him that's uh government it is yeah um okay certainly uh we wouldd like to see this project move on too um and and I know that we were finally in a position I think to have an opportunity to talk about it but because he did get the plan in the last time and you've had it for at least a few weeks now but and I sent edits I did request some edits so we won't talk about those tonight we need to make sure he's there here when we talk about the edits okay uh you you do have a plan though in hand yeah and I sent edits yeah I think it was said what the day of the prior meeting something something like that the day before the plan was sent the day of the August meeting and my plan edit request was sent on September 4th so okay and uh I don't know if you want to say anything about the plan no okay not right now not with I'm not here I'm I'm just happy that it's looking good I just want to add some things to it okay all right all right very okay so that have a motion to continue they need a motion to continue so move second all in favor and then can we skip down and take his next one which which address is that Lisa 880 heart you would you entertain a motion to take 880 out of order uh yes that's fine is it you making the motion yes sir is there a second second all in favor okay 880 thank you for that uh when I'm finding it okay I got it here okay um we have requested a restoration plan by 8:30 uh Lisa that plan has never come in um August thir the one through August 30th I'm talking about uh hot Street no we never received okay so a problem the plan has not come in problem cattle and structure in Wetland I was by there today nothing has been moved I made notice on that at the previous uh meeting that the cattle were wallowing in the mud of the wetlands I made notice of that I went by the set yesterday and I see a truck dumping wood chips on the site in the wetlands major problems and I am not happy with it and I am very ready to ask this commission to start finding the landowner at $300 a day for the indiscretions that are taking place not only previously but that have continued since the time that we talked okay I'll be happy to address that um I don't think you will be happy but go ahead well it's my job um with regard to the plan as you know Mr duu was also scheduled to be here on that matter um I was not aware until I spoke with Lisa earlier today that the he had not submitted the plan um I'm I know that he has worked on it I know that he's been out to the property um I did not know what level of his communication was or the fact that he had not submitted the plan um I know that he's aware that it was due and I'm sure that he despite his other commitments was is going to get that done as soon as that as soon as he can with regard to the um to the cows what um I understand that the the Animal control officer was out there did observe did not as um and I Mr Whitmore could could not be here um he's actually ill uh Mrs Mrs Whitmore is here um the minor things the Animal control officer did go out there did observe the cows didn't other than wishing that they could be in a great in a larger area um didn't have wasn't concerned about any other cannot be in Wetlands a new Farm if it was an existing farm for 50 years and they were there we can't do it down thing even though Farm ago has to be at least cons continuously involved he is he is speaking right now you're out of order to respond to the Board of Health okay I did speak with them and they are in the process of looking into everything but as far as we're concerned it's not allowed you know you have to have permits in place in fact I think it was two years ago when I spoke with Mr Whitmore when we originally started cutting I explained all that to them so I'm not really sure where things are at with flagging the Wetland um I I know that was also in the process of being done um I don't know where it stands right now um and you know as as you may recall from from when this first started the whitmor were relying on the Wetland maps that they saw they didn't believe that they were in the wetlands I understand the wetlands lines have changed and that's why we're having them flagged but the area that they were in according to the maps that they were relying on didn't show his Wetland so it wasn't that they were intentionally well but we I years ago and a a notice the violation went out um and then you know it's just so it was February 17 2023 the first letter went out um writing to them about Wetland violation um and so I have photos going back but and and I do think that they we don't have any map you told me right and there that there was a new map because on it shows Wetland and you told me and my sonin-law and my daughter was standing right there I told not and you would not give it to no what I said was you need she's I look at soil mapping as a wetland scientist if I gave you the soils map which I can give you a copy right now if you'd like you would not understand it you need a wetland scientist so this is the but I thought I actually thought to get it that's what off it is it is water that is the picture yeah this is this is what was this is part of what was filed so if you look at the front edge of the lot yeah I'm just trying to get a feel for the resources by the boat looks like that was that was actually yeah I can show you on this iPad too the problem is you know when people go and they look online for maps they can't find a wetland map that's accurate they need to have a delation that's what I thought Mr Wasing no it is I'm just saying originally the whitmorees when they located things on their property stayed away from what what the Wetland map showed it's just turns out that the map was no longer accurate because the map was was dated and the Wetland lines changed yeah so Wetlands do change but I don't know you know 50 years ago what it was but I'm going to show you the map you guys the map I just gave her so um now I know it has to be a continuous operation but was this property a commercial Farm put F commercial I don't know but it has to be continuous uh and if it has been left fellow for five years it it goes back to zero right I was just I was just curious okay yeah I I just asked Mr  by a woman that right near the house a big right there many before you bought it though yeah all right so I just wanted to show you guys the but excuse me I'm sorry when we bought the house husband went to the town and he asked them he said I want to know how much I have and and they turned around and said you don't have any because number one is we've been paying on taxes for full taxes all these years because supposedly we didn't have W and we were supposed to be able to do what we want and my my stuff is you know I know she's but if the new map came out and stuff why didn't the owners get them I mean we've been living in this house for 30 35 years and she just comes up and tells us we can't do this of course we're going to be upset so this is a soil mapping um this is the house if we knew that we would have had a break in taxes wh is wetland hydric soil so this is the Whitman and this is a Wood Bridge wood bridges on the edge of w nor so this is their up one and this is I think they own this lot do you own the lot that the power line line is on too or no the lot what the power line goes through as well or no that small lot no okay so you right here but anyway so this is you can see thees see the they might have you been to the site no I haven't but I've seen the I I saw the iPad uh View at the last meeting yeah right now there's a lot of sges growing uh not SES yes I hold Timber Ro hydrologic soil Group C so like you would never be able to park in it the whole and I grew up something where you can been years even a wet than that it just you that Che you have to know how to interpret I up scientists use on that property I know you did have it after the first but we've never seen the wet delineation yeah I I I was looking at it from a distance I can see so here's the house the boats the boats are approximately right here uh the cows are approximately right here um the The Dumping of the wood chips was all through here and here and and of course where the animals are [Music] um but they're still in Wetlands you can't fill or alter land Maris Lane was an open field too and cows can walk in water you know that don't you but legally D could also if we wanted to we could get involved with this as well which we're trying not to do but basically it's in violation of the local bylaw and the state regulations as far as um having you can't have livestock peeing and doing their thing in in a wetland like that so you cannot start a farm in Wetland you cannot have a a area that has not been used in agriculture commercial agriculture for 5 years uh reverts to its original state by law and if that has not been farmed or not been in agriculture then you start at step one which means if it's Wetland you can't put the cows in there you can't put uh you you you can't use it uh because it's Wetland and then anything that you want to do in a buffer zone you must have it regulated I can move the car in my backyard had before and that's okay right I don't know how looking at that it appears as though there's uh you had it there Wetlands there too but I I I don't know exactly and obviously that that's ultimate we're trying to do Mr dua's plan will show a proposal of where the cows would be relocated to well it's not just that it's also dumping of the uh uh of the uh wood chips that that in Wetlands it's dumping uh it's it's cutting in the buffer zone which is which is protected uh until approval is given and there is a 25 foot no touch Zone there's a building structure um in the wetlands and we have a 20 a 50 foot no no build Zone and so there's a lot of violations here by our bylaw and by the state right and and that's why ultimately no I I mean uh we can get the state involved they and they might uh rip her apart I don't know I don't know what they would do Jim could I just um inject the thought sure you certainly may uh if Mr dza is able to find an alternative location on the plot that's not in a wetland even if it's in the buffer zone that's a conversation that we could have that yeah let's say 50 ft out of so right right so if they're able to identify a place that's in a in an area that needs to be permitted yeah but not necessarily in a wetland but that hasn't been filled that's the problem now so wetlands are based on vegetation hydrology and soils so now we've had part of the Wetland be cut part of the Wetland be filled now another pot being filled for the cows with wood chips and then what do you doing there's no wood chips in pen not in their pen there is something there's a there's a couple huge containers was that uh um uh squashes that's what they eat it no I know I know I know that but I'm just saying I didn't know what it was when I went by I just and I I assumed it was like old butternut squash or something no we get it right from one of the stores it's all pots and stuff that they cannot use in the school no I I I I know what Haniford does that watermelon those cows get fed very well um that's not that's not the issue here the issue is them being in in the wetlands and and the wetlands being used when they should be in a natural state tell me my whole land has to be in AAL well we don't we we don't know cuz I've asked you to get it flagged now for almost two years and we haven't seen any flagging but instead we've seen more and more more and more encroachment that's the problem that's why you have to keep coming back all right so and and if I like I said I told your attorney that if I you know I I'm ready to ask for a $300 a day fine I won't ask for it today but but I expect that your agent is going to have this flagged out and it's going to have a plan into us that was supposed to have been in uh a few weeks ago uh then then if he cannot do the job maybe you'll have to hire someone else now M Mr chairman how would this be for a potential road map would be that um if Mr Souza you know by our next meeting is able to provide us with the plan if we could potentially you know get the wetlands flagged potentially identify a place in a buffer zone Elsewhere on the property that might be something of a conversation we could have well this is what I'm pushing yeah I'm pushing but I I'm I got the carrot out there but I but I also have the guillotine and that the guillotine is the $300 fine and then there could be a restoration component for what's already been done or where's you know places that have already been Disturbed a restoration component could be discussed as that's what the plan is all about that hasn't come in am I correct Lisa has not come in it was due August 30th so we're talking uh 6 weeks uh out no no I'm sorry sorry uh uh 3 weeks late you know I mean I know he might have other responsibilities but then maybe if he's taking the job have you signed a contract with them I'm not sure my husband do that stuff that they have yeah uh then then maybe it's up to him to find someone else to do the job that he can't do if he's got another if he's got other uh activities that might be a conversation between the applicant between the resident well that's why I'm just saying that I'm just I'm just throwing this out so that so they can discuss it uh I'm not directing them to do anything I'm throwing it out for discussion uh between them um but we want action understand positive action I understand what you're looking for and I'll address that with with Mr duza and we'll have try to get uh to a better place when we're here next month okay all right I'm I'm sensitive to somebody who wants to engage in agricultural activity but we also have to you know protect the resources in accordance to what we're require to administer no I think your suggestions are reasonable and we appreciate that yeah Mr sus is able to identify a path forward that we can continue to have a productive discussion I mean what i' would like to see happen Okay uh Lisa we all I think we've got our point across I mean but can we elaborate that we don't want any more wood ships dumped I mean how do we get that point across and we actually I would I think $300 a day is going to get the point across I would like to see those removed even though they're in the backyard they don't belong there no why not it's our backyard and there's no water because you're changing the elevation you cannot fill land within 100 ft of a wetland oh my God don't even go there with filling land up the street they did it to put in houses and nobody said it thing they they filed for permits nobody said it they filed for permits well how come you guys didn't stop it they had a huge H well maybe next month if we're in receipt of you know something that looks like it's a way forward then maybe we can have a more holistic discussion that kind of addresses everything that might be I I think that uh sounds very good and uh uh are you satisfied with the way it could go next week next month yes okay could go hopefully it will go October 17th okay thank you um do we so we we will continue this um uh action till October 17th yeah do you feel is there a motion plan um I'm looking here um I've got several papers here um I mean you guys can continue but it's not a hearing you don't have to continue yeah okay we we'll continue action uh until October 17th meeting so is there a second second all in favor thank you all thank you thank you okay uh I want to go back I have uh two agendas here uh and and I'm read and I'm flipping and and one has uh um minutes yeah review minutes and act upon them and the other one doesn't but but I want to go back to the one that I have the the the meeting uh the agenda that I have here and it says well it was posted as at the end we do it the other business that's what I said I moved it around when I posted it you have an old version here okay all right okay all right I thought I missed it completely okay no all right that's fine but I did just realize that there were two follow on Weston and Samson contracts that I didn't have you guys vote on before we close the public hearing okay all right so um okay so I didn't miss that by looking at the no the draft agenda okay try to confuse you um let's see is back to regularly SCH yes okay uh so our next item then is zero okay zero Horton Street um enforcement order issued 11 2822 restan plant being implemented now pleas yeah so that's underway okay um Jim and I were there I was there several times but Jim went with me yesterday right uh yes and that okay I thought they were going to be here tonight but I guess they wer well he didn't have to come I think he's waiting for the rain so he can throw those seeds in between the stone right uh yeah that that's going to that's going to look pretty good when he finally gets finished with it okay 1420 uh William Street has been removed so that's great uh 14 Williams 1420 Williams Street there's no new update on that we don't have a filing yet okay uh 1033 Oak Street yeah I have an update I visited the site with um Mr Watson and the owner Mr cook um do you guys want to see the plan the restoration plan or do you are you guys okay with what I no it's uh I've seen you in action so we've designated an area um to the west of the garage um and then south of the gar I mean north of the garage that's going to be just left as is to restore the 25 foot um I had them add they had uh I think a dozen or so trees and shrubs they're going to add a little bit more to that list and um if you see any cutting I gave the owner permission to cut an ash tree that was dead um kind of on the edge of the right away but anyways it looks good to me and I'm happy with that um hopefully you guys would be happy with it too okay great thank you yeah uh 2470 Pleasant Street um so we do have some email correspondents the owner remember we met him on site with Dave and so that was a few months ago so he's had a hard time get getting um out back to call him back I guess they're really busy so I think he's highly motivated to correct this problem yes he is so he's going to reach out to some more local engine hopefully he can find someone but he has been emailing me and be been responsive okay Very Yes um 710 Center Street that's Jack yeah I spoke to him the other day I finally got a hold of him and uh uh I gave him lease's number he's supposed to call and touch base with her and see if they can touch base with the NH H National Heritage there make sure everything's up to date he hasn't called me yet I didn't catch him till when was um last week or something no it was this week I know Monday or Tuesday okay um 1070 Smith Street yeah so um the wetlands have been flagged out there and I visited the site I requested a site visit with Zenith um they're going to put together a proposal for them they definitely cleared within the 100 foot it's questionable if they cleared within the 25 ft um but they want to regrade the whole yard so they definitely have to file a notice of intent um improvements they're making improvements so it's great cuz you know the house was really in rough shape when they bought it but um I'm happy that they're moving forward and they're going to do the right thing that they understand they might might have to restore some um they have a problem area in the front yard along Smith Street where there's a catch Basin so we might need to Loop Mr ferry in as well there's a calt under the road as well so but yeah things are progressing with that one okay sand wige Lane and boxwood Lane no new update on that um can we take um correspondence out of order we have people here for that well I I think that we're AR we really there okay okay we can do yes we can do that is there a motion to take correspondence out of order second all on favor okay uh email from right Pierce on behalf of the town of somerset's raw water pump station ah okay hello good evening good evening well I'm I'm glad uh we're here hopefully on a on a friendly nice friendly AB absolutely and we're trying to protect your water suppli is I see that I see that's very encouraging thank you so I'm I'm Chris Wickman with the town of Somerset water department um I'm I'm wait minute Chris Wickman w c m n okay CH please and I'm Tera waran I'm with rght Paris working on the project rright Paris is our contract engineer for both of the projects that we're doing uh with okay right what do we have uh segreganset river that you're taking from and you're taking yeah so you guys are probably aware right the town of Somerset withdraws from the segreganset river on a seasonal basis we are very aware uh so we have a very substantial structure up there off of Brook Street uh The Pump Station up there that we run seasonally uh typically you know when the stream flows are adequate December through May it seems to be is the you just use that to fill up your Reservoir or okay you don't pump directly to a treatment station no that so that um that replenishes the majority of the water that is in the somerset Reservoir so the natural water shed above that before you get onto your topic uh have you ever been aware of the activity along the against it uh north of dayon not particularly no maybe you want to pay attention to that as time goes on yeah because they're sucking the Brooks dry at my place never goes dry unless it's in a drought so and while we've been four weeks without rain four it doesn't it doesn't matter jim I've lived next to that Brook for over 70 years and up until about you're an old guy yeah thank you up until maybe 8 10 11 years ago it used to go down but it never went dry and the last four or five years you can walk across it with sandals pretty much late spring all the way till fall now I'm talking about building activity uh in the community to our North really okay we've had to go with it already we'll have to have to look how far do you like people to stay away from the river and building my personal choice as far as possible as far as possible for sure yeah how is uh 20 30 ft sound uh not desirable not desirable at all I'm just I'm throwing that out you can go you can go and start and drive the route start on 44 up by the golf course not that they got anything to do with it the golf course doesn't you'll see you'll see what he's talking about okay we'll put that on the list yeah for sure thank you okay let's get on to your business with us and uh uh we just gave you a bit of activity a bit of we gave you some work yes yes um so at the at the pump station there's there's a wet well portion and then a pump portion um so the wetwell portion needs to undergo um a maintenance which is an inspection of the wet well itself um and so these photos just because you can't see it from the road and I don't know if you've been down there but it helps give you a visual of the I think I walked in there once long time ago but you have signs all over the place yeah so this is this is on the north side of Brook Street we also have the well right that's on the south side of so they each are um I think there are over 100 acres of land on either side of the street there that and and we actually control a little bit of land on the uh I'm going to say I'm going to call it the west side I believe so yes yeah I believe there is p and was there an old Dam there at one time yes yes there was I think that was for uh maybe one of the local factories here in dayon or whatever it may be I I I should head there now while it's dry and and maybe you guys if ever guys teing Duke St coming back yes yes okay I'm sorry I I get sidetracked too easy it's your um opportunity to ask for question so um so the wet Well's on the west side or on the rear of the pump station um so you can't see the wet well in the photos however on the second page you're standing on the wet well looking out at the river um and then the photo on the bottom of the second page you're actually looking down and you can just barely make out the bar screens that are on the openings into the wet well so there's three of these openings at on the exterior so the river feeds directly so the wet well is basically a giant tank in the basement of the building that is directly connected to the segregant and then we pump out of that tank to the reservoir um in this bar screen uh it's about 2 in apart Between the Bars so there could be objects branches of two inches in diameter that make its way into the wet well um along with sediment and leaf debris um and so as part of the inspection we really need to have a good clear visual of the bottom of the tank just to see the Integrity of the concrete um so we're expecting to that we're going to encounter about a foot of what I'll call Mucky material at the bottom um and we are hiring a subcontractor that does this work um if you're interested in the name they're now called aquous they were underwater Sol underwater Solutions um so they're very familiar with this type of work we are expecting that we'll be using silt sacks and also we'll be laying out straw Waddles along there's a grass line and a fence line um it's not a great visual in this photo but it's over here on the west side of the sheet there's a fence that runs along the segreganset um so the third page shows approximately where will'll be installing um a silt bag in the straw Waddles so we'd expect that the silt will will pump um more of the heavy solids that have settled on the bottom like the silt type material and then because the leaf debris and any sticks could actually puncture the silt bag we'd expect more of the organic material to be pumped um into the straw waddle to be caught so we're not directly dumping or discharging any of the sediment back into the river could I ask a few questions you certainly may that's what you're here for uh what's Vol what's the volume of water in this wet well uh the full volume see 20 by 20 10 ft um okay so you're probably what 4,000 three four 3 to 4,000 Gall now do you have an idea what you have for sediment in this well already no it's very difficult to determine it and it's uh you know because it's confined space and uh you know of course this structure was constructed in the early 60s when they did the reservoir right and all that in the treat the original treatment plant there in Somerset so now you you going to pump it or you going to vac the right the strategy is the underwater Solutions or the contractor will go down with you know divers because it can't be isolated from the river uh so that bar screen that you see in that photo will stay open to the river of course this is the time of year that we have to do it because the river flows are essentially uh nil and we will be you know utilizing this Pump Station you know come uh December or January whenever the flows are adequate enough to start back up fuse though if I see you have Gates here I see the channels uh are you going to close these Gates there there is no there is no mechanism put in there no so there's no way of stopping that River from flowing in there no and you're going to uh so you're going to pump against the flow of the river is that it so essentially you're pulling you put the pump in the in the wet well right and you pull that sediment out right it's basically fine Sil you're going after the sediment primarily yes and then they'll do their inspection once that silt is uh removed to a level once once it clears up you'll the DI discharge of the silt that is uh you know what our question is is you know and this that's where I'm going so this discharge M uh you're you get about 4,000 actually more than that if you're if you're pumping and this flowing in so you probably could have anywhere from five to 8 or 10,000 yes and you're going to contain this and well the water the water will migrate back to the river right through the because pump discharge into the sil sack you're basically just C circulating it yes yes but the silt will stay contained in those silt sacks and in the event that one of those silt sacks does fail you have we will have the Waddles also prior to no we are we accepting Waddles in L so well the question is do you guys want them to file for a notice of intent for this project or not well it's it's within the bu this is all within your building right yes within the property yeah I mean this is all so this is all contained and the only thing that's going to come out is going to be what goes into the W I've got to use waddled area I don't know if that's the Basin what the wet Basin is this watering a cement uh yes the structure is a concrete structure yes but you're pumping onto the ground we're pumping onto what is you know is designed to be a parking area the Waddles are going to they're going to prevent this erosion you know yeah it's a paved it's a paved area oh it's a paved area paved area right up to the River's Edge so so the mud will be or the silt that's in there will be will be contained between the straw and the fabric and then how will you yeah so when you're done you pick that up and yeah and will disposal any idea how fast you going to pump this out of there uh what do they usually use t a 3inch pump something along that lines they'll use a 3-inch pump and depending on what they encounter um I mean it could take them two or three days they estimating yeah I think we have a week for a 5day window for this work or a 5ay estimated is that what it was I think it's 5 days would this pump run 247 no no it would only be during the work right so essentially we have to remove the silk from the from the wet well itself and then they have to go back in to the wet well you know with d you know it's di hard hard hat dive uh you know head yeah yeah cuz it's all heated suits and all yeah they have a very big dice I I've dop hot hat and I've triple I got probably the only triple tanks and civilian life oh so I'm I'm familiar with this uh interesting how deep is the the water in the well is I want to say 12 feet is that about right uh yeah right now I to the top of the to the top 20 the whole tank like 20 yeah but we're estimating about like 11 ft at this moment because the take too long to to S yeah it shouldn't hopefully would you intend for the work to begin as soon as possible right we're up against a uh you know a scheduling with the contractor of course we're up against you know December is right around December January when that pump station has to go into service and of course uh right Pierce here is under contract to complete the scope of their work by a certain time also right they're doing a very comprehensive study for us for everything from The Pump Station yeah so this is exploratory and because we're going to have that exemp within two months that's that's where I was getting with that is that one of the next items we have in the agenda is bylaw changes one of which is to carve out an explicit exemption for the maintenance of Public Utilities that includes water yeah so as far as an noi goes um I I would no I I don't I it's it's internal and it's uh um what they're going to pump in the parking lot they'll just get the sweeper out there and uh yeah well it'll be contained in those silt sacks and those silt sacks will be disposed of back at the water treatment we have a spoil file dumping everything in the parcking lot no no no no they're running it through the filter bags yeah yeah yeah I the water is going to be there and yeah you're going to have dirty water but I just just want to know so if anyone asks me what's going on I know you know you guys have told me okay we're going to be out there next Wednesday what right yeah absolutely we'll keep you yeah as soon as we can nail down the final schedule right because it's kind of contingent on uh you know this uh issue here is then then we will uh schedule the subcontractors and get that done certainly keep you uh Lisa if you want to be the okay I I think you have agreement at least with three of us already that you know just go ahead and do it and uh you're going to take the uh precautions that are needed I get a I have a question un related to this right here what is the evaporation rate because it depends upon the season and the temperature but of your reservoir uh again that's that's tough because it's so variable you know what I mean we have other factors is there any reason why you don't have a a huge tank rather than having SE that res that Reservoir holds about 1.5 billion gallons of water when full um you know we we process roughly 700 million gallons of raw water a year to produce the 500 million gallons of finished water right CU some is used in the process for for filter cleaning and so on and so forth so uh you know economy is scale it's uh just wouldn't be practical to to have that kind of okay stored volume and so what evaporates you can just continue to pump in we yep yeah so there is the local waterers shed right so the local water shed above the reservoir is about one one square mile I believe I want you to remember that we're great neighbors yes we are yes we well I mean if it's of any benefit we do service about 80 we do have 88 connections here in in dayon right from the Town Line North to essentially Brook Street there are 88 service connections that we Service uh in the town so the town does have a direct benefit to make sure that we have adequate water supply to service them yeah okay I think uh or do I have I live in the D water district should I have done a conflict of interest okay um do we have a motion to just accept their to accept their presentation and for them to further their project the only question I have is the straw Waddles are we good with the straw Waddles in this instance you're not dealing with a big slope here right level flat okay yep yeah there's something else you'd want us to use instead or if you want to come by you're happy to I might the site straw wles up fine I know you uh don't have a lot of availability during the week but if you have a specific time we can I certainly make it a point to get up there and give you get access and okay not an issue at all okay actually it' be good to see it so you guys have an understanding of what it's all about and you know some of the challenges we're faced with cuz uh it is it is a pretty substantial structure uh you know and absolutely critical to the okay so that's your Pump Station your treatment station is on 138 yes yeah so that's the raw water right we pump nothing there's no chemical Edition there's no filtration there's none it's raw water uh other than the 2-in bar screen that's it so where is your treatment station right at the bottom at um 3249 County Street so right there right over to what I'm saying right and there were a couple little ponds right there a pond yeah that so that was originally a ornamental Pond uh that over the years you know has kind of C N Tails so we just kind of maintain it the way it is and leave that uh you know that yeah okay orental look to it we like that Circ 19 you know 50s 60s era goes with the building are we all set them okay how about a motion to accept their presentation and to permit their further put their project to go on without filing so second okay all in favor hi hi thank you so much gentlemen thank you appreciate it we'll keep you posted on uh when we get this down okay sounds good all right um Lisa are we going on to the minutes now yeah well um I think so I mean I don't know what we want to do about the simple fact that there were two Weston and Samson proposals that I should have had you guys vote on that I already signed want to do it at the next I mean I we've already authorized you to accept the proposal yeah we did we already closed the public hearing so yeah and you you were already previous to us doing that you already got authorized on of the commissioner yeah okay we so we're else so we'll go to the minutes um I have the minutes here for um uh July 17 um they've been out and about um is there a motion to uh accept the minutes from July 17 2024 is there a second I'll second all in favor I and then I just need Jim to sign now okay uh we have the minutes from um August 15 2024 uh is there a motion to accept those minutes all in favor I okay Lisa here are the two assigned uh minutes okay okay um appreciate it okay uh dayon bylaw changes yeah I gave you guys each copies I had a conversation with Matt um and Matt's feeling about all of it is that the B law would be stronger than any regulations or policies so just keep the fees in with the bylaw and he suggested we do the name change so um that's why you see it crossed off at the top there's a bunch more regulations I would like us to add but we can do that next year I I just I would rather us not keep putting this off if we can you know no that's fine so so we can get get the changes uh uh the changes are all in red yeah so the only questions I had was the two yellow areas right and then um I did want to know if you guys thought I should add something in there cuz um secon requires this and I think it might help us people are using GPS's a lot for you know field delineation and it doesn't always depict very well or accurately on the plan as you can imagine so I didn't know if you guys wanted me to also add something in here that we would need um an anrad or notice of intent specifically to be stamped by a PLS or a PE and what your thoughts are on that but yeah we can talk about that too yeah you want to go through each of them um that'd be up to the other Commissioners I've read through of them already yeah I have too I don't know if I just had a couple quick things I wanted to address okay um I don't know do you want to go through them one by one or you want me to just jump in at the things that I no you go ahead because I've gone through them as well so on the back this second page on the back uh where it says or it's duly authorized Legion the back of the first page sorry oh yeah this just the scrier error it's a Dy fly authorized oh um the other one is wait a minute where was that now uh it's duly authorized agent let just oh yeah okay um the next one was on that same page the unless the commission decides at a public hearing the other action is necessary the reason that I say that is because this says the commission shall return any unused portion of the consultant feed to the applicant upon the completion of the project along with any acred interest unless the commission decides at a public meeting the other action is necessary um we collect These funds and open these accounts under Mass General Law chapter 44 section 53g which states explicitly any excess amount in the account attributable to a specific project including any ACR interest at the completion of said project shall be repayed to the applicant um where this says comption of the project and the bylaw I think that we lose the ability to to maintain those funds to do anything else because there a specific operative word is completion there and so I would recommend that we uh that we strike the red area the red area yeah unless the commission decides at a public meeting the other action is necessary um strike it yeah I would say so because the law that gives us the authority to collect these ones the first place explicitly says that when the Project's completed they have to be return to do anything else with it okay and S Highway superintendent um so the yellow portion above um we're going to leave that in there yeah that's fine with me if you want because you know we we condition things all the time with a monitoring component yeah exactly and if you if this software or something if we decide you need to do that it makes sense to have the money to pay for it so we're adding Highway superintendent on page three as a notification to um setbacks we I um crossed off prior to the effective date of this bylaw I guess we need a period in there um then the verono pool e veral pool and potential veral pools shall hold special protections and we'll have a migratory record over at least 100 ft of the wetlands or natural environment from the main annual high water mark that will be left in its natural state natural and undisturbed state I think that's good for our purposes um how do you feel about the potential veral component yeah oh that's a question because I'm just wondering if we could you know if we um if we're going to accept somebody's delineation or something like that we we often require them to certify potential vernal pools as veral true so do you think it would be worth striking that and have it be just vernal pools and then we can address all the pvps in a case by case basis and make them be certified if we have good reason to do so yeah what do you guys think makes sense a lot of times if they know they have a veral pool they'll just call it a Vernal pool anyway and not even call it a potential but yeah let's just take potential vernal pools right what what page is that that's the third one four uh fourth page back of the second page okay back of okay back the second page okay so you want to strike and potential Ral pools and then the only other thing that I noticed I love everything else and there's one other thing I want to talk about at the end on the basically the all red page the burden of proof under number four section c so number four section c where it say the project provides benefits to the public interest as defined by and okay we're missing something yeah that exactly oh yeah because so the regulations I borrow these from were the eastn ones and so it referred to their regulations I mean their B so we don't have to refer to our bylaw because this is within our bylaw but um do we have public interest to find somewhere in here is that right no see we I don't have a lot of the that's where I was saying you know there's a lot of stuff I would still like to add as like um descript definitions but I don't know that I mean that was pages and Pages more so okay now when this goes before the uh oh wait let's go to that to the previous page it says unpage enforcement fines will be attached to personal property and then you have a question mark remove this and make it another warrant article yeah yes I'm going to see if I can pull up what the mgl is on that unpaid enforcement fines will be attached on personal property uh will be yeah so that we may wish to submit as a second order article the reason for that is that we're able to lean unpaid Municipal fines fees and charges onto the third and fourth quarter of tax bills under mgl chapter 40 section 58 I'll just read the first paragraph where it says any city or town May impose a lean unreal property located within the city or town for any local charge or fee that has not been paid by the due date said lean shall be known as the municipal charges lean provided that a separate vote at a town meeting whereby a town or city council is taken for each type of charge or fee so that would have so if we want to put a lean on it we would have to go to a town meeting and put a lean on no just so what we would do is so we do this currently with three types of leans we do it with Title Five betterments we do it with unpaid sewer leans and we do it with demolition leans so those three types of charges got um approved at a town meeting yeah and um I don't know what the language of the warrant articles is but I think we could probably just approve a boiler plate one tonight to basic basically um accept conservation fines as a lean Municipal charge pursuant to mgl chapter 40 section 58 so it would be like something to that effect because we just have to have a separate town meeting vote for any type of charge like you could lean really any unpaid Municipal fine Fe your charge could be added could that be could that be changed right in here and put down unpaid enforcement by chapter sub such and then put into the um um next next town meeting or would or would that be just one separate item I think that would be a separate warant article like where we're going to submitting a warrant article for amendments to the bylaw okay so that that whole thing would be removed and we' do a separate article a separate warrant article okay all right so we'll get rid of that and and all right um You have those other articles in about uh um demolition lean we would just put down conservation lean yeah and put their put the same wording in I'll ask the town clerk if she can find us the exact town meeting when those got voted on and then I'll just copy the language okay all right okay okay so that would be a that would not come up shortly okay so then I think we just be returning to that uh number four section c this C to the public interest yes defined by okay do you have that Lisa what that wording should be I mean it sounds like the eastn bylaw had like a definition section where they find a public interest I'll pull it up I'll try to pull it up real quick okay okay if you cannot tring to just uh Delete C and make DC if you know what I mean so the project is otherwise and that becomes C what we could do just as a thought and I'd like it if it was better defined in a definition section so if we have to wait till later that's fine I would like if it's possible to fit this in somewhere because I think that giving us the ability to wave a certain ition if we feel like there's a really good reason to do so that's something I'd kind of not like to lock us out of having the ability to do so maybe if we were to rephrase it for now like the project provides a demonstrable benefit in the public interest something like that so the burden to proof is still on them to prove is a pressing public interest and then at a later meeting maybe we can come in with a definition section and amend that to like be something more specific I don't know what do you what do you think um I think you ought to include it yeah something along that I would I would hate to be you know kicking ourselves six months from now will be ruled out right exactly if we have a really good reason why we do want a wave of condition but we're locked into not being able to because we don't have all right no I I I hear what you're saying okay so you will get that wording and and provide it them wait I mean the East and rs nothing's loading on this iPad right now but you just said I I just said the project provides a demonstrable benefit in the public interest yeah just for just for now it's placeholder language then another the project provides now what' you call it I call it a demonstrable benefit in the public interest okay project provides benefit to the public interest that's under the burden of proof section so they still have to prove it they still have to prove that it's they can demonst that it's something that's and so it wouldn't be as defined by so so that as defined by is removed right and then maybe someday later we can come back and say as defined by the definition section of the dayon by law once we all right okay okay and uh the public interest is certainly not the Parco book of the contractor right and then um the only other thing that I love I loved all this and Lisa I really you know you worked very hard on this I want to commend all the hours you put into this thank you very much you're welcome um I feel like I still need to do more the only thing that I wanted to bring up as a discussion and this is actually my idea in the first place I just want to bring it up is the after Thea filing fee I just wanted to kind of take the temperature with everybody else on that because it because it is kind of steep but we have a lot of people who should file and know that should file and choose not to and like you were talking about the carrot and the stick earlier yeah we have a lot lower fees for filing and doing things the right way and then we kind of have what's comparatively a pretty punitive penalty for the after Thea filing I don't know if you guys are comfortable with the 500 or if you'd like to see no that I I kind of bit my tongue on that but it's it's pretty steep I mean okay abbreviated notice okay site inspection um okay now additional site inspections okay now here's something Lisa let's look at fees on on the previous page you have abbreviated notice of resource area deliniation 150 notice of intent 150 includes one site inspection now you got site inspection I think y good catch adding U if we just put additional site inspections and just and so that we only because uh U and that way I mean additional site would be beond the one yep good idea now okay here's something Here's a thought if someone like down here on a hot Street you did a site inspection to for enforcement order that's not under anything so do we call that how how would that be do we set okay uh if someone has an enforcement order how do you get them to pay though they they don't even agree that they should comply so I need to do the site visit whether they pay or not right that might be something we could think about and address um in another town meeting maybe okay so do do you want to put down wipe out the site inspection just put additional site inspections okay I did that all right and then uh On The Backs side amended order of conditions requests to extend order of conditions okay request for a certificate of compliance well is that a site inspection yeah I have to do one every time okay should we put includes one side inspection in that as well as part of the fee so that yeah I mean yeah why not um so okay or if we make that $50 that would be site include site inspection and comp and and certificate all right okay I like that request for certificate of compliance $50 y includes one site inspection includes it doesn't necessarily include the certificate cuz you guys have to vote on it includes site inspection M do we want to include that under amended order of conditions as well okay yeah amended um includes one site inspection yeah I just want to try to button this up in a way that people are paying if they're you know using excessive site inspections but if they're paying a fee for something is going to kind of genuinely warrant one that I kind of feel like the fee they pay ought to be included request to extend okay request to extend creation of the original order oh okay if they apply well they should get a side inspection too when they request to extend no creation of an original order of conditions creation wouldn't that be part of the filing fee no it's so if they lost it so in some cases I'm sorry in some cases they say this order you know we never recorded it and we say well you need to like an additional copy of an original order of conditions yeah do we want to just change the language to let people know that is wait creation or wait minute what's what is that the proper word because when you have an AR when you when you do a filing you're going to get order of conditions mhm right so that should be included in the order of conditions right so I so if we if we put down um additional order of oh see uh additional copy additional copies replacement of lost there we go replacement replacement replacement of an original order of condition how does that sound replacement yeah not creation y replacement this is kind of a hot pod between a couple of towns so you have to so if someone throws it away or they or they don't record it that's that's that's their problem um and I think that that would uh deal with it uh replacement um and there's no reason why because you give out okay how many how many artist conditions do you give out to begin with you give one to the owner and you give one to the contractor um no I give one to the owner if the contractor comes to me I usually say you should be able to get it from the owner and if you need one it'll cost you 50 bucks okay now it will [Laughter] well you know but but that but that is that is going to reduce your time doing needless things let them make their C down the line right I don't know if right that's part of our goal here I think is that because it's as it is now a lot of people who are not working in resource areas and are not disturbing resource areas are the ones paying felisa's time to deal with the ones who are working in resource areas and disturbing them so I like the fee structure being set up so that the people are actually utilizing yeah us are the ones who are who are kind of funding what we say has to do and I think it'll encourage them to be ready for their inspection instead of you know them applying for the building permit and then me saying hey I'm going to put this on hold until you've got your Ro roing controls in and I go there and the erosion controls on in and then I got to go back cuz the placards on in you know it's like it's going to be fair and then what's going to happen is if they don't just just tell them uh if uh we're going to we're going to tell them right from the beginning that uh make sure you review your pce schedule on the uh bylaws because if you don't get things done in a timely manner and you want inspections that's going to cost you for inspections yeah we'll have to put it right on the the web page you know refer to these the new fees schedule and yeah and then you know because I don't want this to be all of a sudden wow I didn't know that was there they have to be notified so that they become efficient and don't just start uh uh jingling your time schedule yeah so what we can also do is once it's approved I think think we could send it out to all the engineers that work locally here you know so they all have them well you do it electronically yeah email okay okay now how is this presented at town meeting we would give them a well I have to produce a warrant article for Monday what is it can be in work how does that work so I believe you can put it in word or you can put it in the body of an email um and we can look online to find examples like I can look over the weekend I can look on Monday morning because we already have the the body of it written and um yeah just make since you were you know since you highlighted the the edits yeah then what what we can do is we put more article we'll email it to the interim toown administrator copy lean and Karen and um we'll get the exact language but it will basically be something to the effec of shall the town vote to Amendment conservation by law in you insert the following language or something to that effect we'll just look back at the previous bylaws that have been amended and look at specifically the way that they did it and I don't know if we're going to do it as like to strike the whole thing and replace it with this whole thing or if we're just going to include the extra language in the part that we did and then just use strikethroughs to show people we now do we have to say something that all these fees that we collect become part of the day and conservation budget so so that they the police department or any other department doesn't get it because because uh that's one of the reasons why we're doing this is because we're we're running sharp with all these lawyer fees with all these um uh enforcement orders and everything else we're doing where I mean we want uh these extra funds we want to become more efficient I am pretty sure we've got very knowledgeable people in the audience tonight so we might be able to get some some other guidance to them but I'm almost positive that if we wanted to use that money to establish like a revolving fund for conservation expenses and all but positive that we tell meeting vote for that as well so that might actually be a separate War not third war article so we looking at now this all be get done by Monday yes okay and I think and um again we we have a former Selectmen in the audience tonight so um Mrs Gul if you don't mind if I pick your brain a little bit uh what What's question so an a warrant articles are due by Monday for a town meeting well we have the opportunity because I know that the Selectmen review the warrant after all the articles have been submitted if we needed to clean up the language of them a little bit once we have like the body of the article in will we have an opportunity between now and when the warrant closes to like make slight modifications to them and things like that as long as we get our the warrant closes Monday do it close Monday okay so the main thing is by Monday make sure I call them placeholders you get your request in saying what it is at least explain for example um cons commission bylaw update all right or updates if that's one article the second one is to establish a revolving account what you were talking about get the get your requests in and then what I would do is put with it we will give you the complete information I just ask Karen or lean when do you need everything the main thing is we want you to put something in there I just I just reminded them that uh a week or so back I said I'm probably going to have a pilot agreement so I need a placeholder I sent him an email today and said I have I'm trying to finish One Pilot agreement so I want that on the warrant if the company gives me what I need I can finish it if I don't get what I need it may make the warrant but it'll be table like at the last meeting I had two on there yep and one of them never got back to me in time so I said next time in the meantime that one has gone away they don't want it so the one I'm working on is Brook Street but but the main thing is get your get your request in there as a placeholder yeah okay so once we have our placeholders in we can tweak the language a little bit yes I think we're really all set with our bylaw the thing I don't know I'm finding little things you got to schedule we'll we'll have time then once we get the point you schedule a public hearing for that bylaw right bylaws have to have public hearings yeah we did you had a public hearing oh well we've been going through the changes a public hearing is the notice in the paper the public notice you want the public changes are going to be made in a bylaw the meeting is going to be here at a certain time or wherever you're going to hold it bylaw changes are different from regulations for example we have storw water bylaw and we have Reg when we amend change or do anything to that bylaw which we're in the process of trying to get done there will be a public hearing changes in the regulation would require a public meeting which means we can discuss it ate we just have a bylaw all right bylaw requires public hearing now the other thing too is if there are others uh planning boards was doing something last night if they're going to schedule a public hearing for their bylaws that are or changes that are going to be on that upcoming town meeting warrant maybe you both could do it in the same night one behind the other one I mean but that bylaws do we could still have a public hearing next month yeah so we could submit it and we can have a public yeah but you've got to advertise it how many any public hearing whatever you're required to do with a public hearing um I haven't done I haven't done one in literally years it's been on our agenda for months but how many times does it have to go in the newspaper the public hearing is announced once to the best of my knowledge and it has to be so many days ahead of the actual date of the meeting could we do that at a regular meeting that's what I'm asking you could you could hold a public hearing before your regular meeting but make sure you advertise it separately it's got to clear to the public we might so if we were to do like a newspaper ad to say that those legal notice things that's what I had to do yeah it's it's 6 o' on okay October 7 we yeah we should do it like soon yeah you're holding a public hearing on changes in the uh towns conservation bylaw uh like when I did I didn't publish the whole bylaw change stuff um it was just that it was going to be held okay um yeah so so we we need to come up with a date like we have to agree to a date to do the meeting and it sounds like we could do it at our for a legal you could be at our meeting right it doesn't have to be at a select meeting well it has to be so many days ahead you do it you can let me how can I explain this okay let's assume it's time for the tax classification hearing that we have every fall after after the fall town meeting but before we set the tax rate so the board of assesses board of selectman meet it's a special meeting it's posted as the the tax classification hearing okay now anybody that wants to come can come usually nobody shows up except the principles that have to be there uh but anybody can come and listen to the discussion on how we arrive at the split for the tax rates between you know residential and commercial or whatever that can be followed by a regular selectman's meeting but you got to make it clear these are two one is a public hearing the other one is a public meeting all right gotta perfect okay okay a public meeting can contain regulation changes which you said you don't have that can be part of that but the hearing thing is is is just that the legal requirements that it's the what's the term War the people you know you had a time that we're going to have this discussion about yeah whatever all right that's yeah okay yeah yeah I would say check with with Shar too I don't believe it's changed but she can tell you the timeline between the time it hits the uh is publicly announced meaning the newspaper and uh because I think our bylaw still says we have to put this in a local newspaper don't know who reads it but um and of course it would be on websites but there is a requirement in the bylaw about uh publishing in the local paper okay I've got to figure out the timeline of it with Shar I guess all right to make sure that we get so we'll leave the date up in the year yeah so tonight we'll get our three placeholders you know the bones of our three placeholders approved and then on Monday when we submit them to reserve them we can also at the same time check in with Shara and uh check in with uh interim Town Administrator pel and just get a uh get a feel for what the timeline is for when we have to hold our public public hearing okay and then we can schedule a public hearing however many days out we have to be advertising the paper do it as a separate meeting from our regular meeting even if it's immediately before or same night or whatever as long as we post them separately and do it separately and um if you get your special account set up keep in mind every year you've got it closes out in every year you got to go back to town meeting to get it uh there's a on you have to like revote that gotcha keep it Revol um the on yeah police I think there liar got a couple C PAP assistant thank you very much U administrator right so he would know what we do oh yeah so I think we I think once J back paper on the right timeline that's what we just talking about thank you Nancy well the only thing is is there's some there's some people caught not of of their own accord and I mean you know it depends on when this is going in if this isn't going in into effect for another year or so that can stay there but if it's going to be in before that there's a few people that were caught in sticky circumstances and you know it was kind of thrust upon them they thought they were doing right have they have they already Oak Street Oak Street is one of them have they filed already yeah Oak Street Oak Street she just went up there but but if he hadn't and he's just going doing what he thought he was I don't think it's up to him to have to pay 500 that's pre that's all that is pre it would only be those people filing or after the bylaw has the changes have been you cannot you cannot go back and and deal with what didn't exist when people started if we catch somebody that has done something today and we catch them after the bylaw is in effect well guess what that's when we caught them it's when we catch them yeah no no but I mean like I say okay no it wouldn't affect those people there's some problems with some of it and I don't think uh those no this would not affect those people on Oak Street or William Street stre or uh that have already Street I don't care about okay Lisa I gave you the two uh sign copies right okay so Bill what do you think about the 500 to too heavy-handed or I I yeah I I think it's uh 150 or even no cut in half 250 250 250 that's yeah yeah yeah it's it's something think uh okay yeah I could go over 250 uh uh 500 is a real punishment that's not that not that they're worth it not worth it but well do you want to change it for commercial because like they're different for commercial versus um residential as far as Wetlands protection act after the fact fing so we do after the fact filing residential after the fact filing commercial yeah or I mean we're already in rough shape with commercial so I don't know if we want to discourage commercial and Dion so yeah that's true that's true maybe not um maybe 250 for now leave it there and future Town meetings give us a reason to change it we leave it 250 now do we is there something in there saying that we can change it no we would have to do uh another bylaw change okay um so guys all right I did find one more change on here just like so actually so we're we're really all set then with the bylaw what the only thing that we're going to we're going to have two parts of the bog going on town meeting uh this paper and then the one that says funding um we're going to make um conservation uh what you said for the um I've got the mgl right here for the motion okay so page one two 3 4 or five so section nine definitions we do have some definitions but the red font here that says shall include it should say it shall include so this is talking about vernal pools um um oh yeah I this one it says shall starts with shall include this section is talking about the previous paragraph is pool what what a veral pool is defined as do you like what it says that's the other question okay all right all right so uh all right so so we've got two things that will go on the warrant at town meeting uh three one to to lean these one for the bylaw one to lean charges one for the bylaw and one to establish a revolving fund what was the first one uh for the bylaw changes uh bylaw changes allow us to lean conservation fines to tax bills and establish a revolving fund for the okay lean bylaw and revolving account okay so um do you want to make a motion that we uh put the um so what we could do is we could make a warrant article to propose the bylaw changes as discussed tonight yeah and then if Lisa is reviewing them if any of us are independently reviewing them and we see anything glaring that we want to change we would have a little bit of time once we have that in as a placeholder if we needed there was anything big enough that we needed to hold a special meeting to vote to all change it then we could and if we're ultimately happy with these changes then we can just let them ride as they are and then um uh but do we need we need placeold us for the three yep yep and as n as Nancy said we don't necessarily have to give all the full specifics of the exact changes for the placeholder just to say that we this is the only one that we wouldn't give all the changes to right now the right the other two the leans the money becoming ours the putting the leans on the property is um okay so so we have a motion to have uh leans uh to have to put on the warrant a a a system to collect funds through a lean Paul's going to give me the wording what Paul and I have to work on the wording of that okay yeah we'll be able to of for now are you willing to entertain a motion yeah oh I definitely am for the three I'd like to propose a motion to submit to the board of Selectmen a warrant article to allow conservation fines and fee uh conservation fines to become a lean uh lean charge under chapter 40 section 58 there a second second all in favor I you got to speak up faster he's he's pretty and David's faster so you so when he's here f the second in the west uh okay next one is going to be uh to alter our bylaws i' like to propose a motion to submit to the board of Selectmen a warrant article to propose amendments to the dtan conservation bylaw second second over here all in favor hi hi okay third article a third motion I'd like to propose a motion to submit to the board of Selectmen a warrant article for the creation of a revolving fund uh for the for use with conservation fees as to be laid out in the in the dayon bylaw I all in favor I I okay now that would be okay here's something now that would be the leans would get this is what has to go into it the leans would of that lean one again allow conservation fines to become a lean yep to become a lean Municipal charge under Mass General Law chapter 40 section 58 okay but that third item that you just said we want to we the Conservation Commission want to receive money from the leans and from the fees that we are setting forth so if they write a a check to the town of dayon we want that money for the $250 for the $50 for whatever it is we want to get that money in our account so it's got to be worded in that third item to get to so that we collect those monies well so we already do all the Wetland protection fees go into a fund anyway but do conservation fines conservation fines oh fines f i n s yes that would be the the money comes in on leans yeah it would have to go to a different account why would it just okay so we want all this money the find yes he's got a question what well since we get the tax collector sitting here I'm an assessor I got to ask the question the only leans that I am aware of that can be filed in this town relate to like money owed to the town okay we lean the property I don't know of any separate committee that benefits from leaning somebody because they haven't either paid their bill or something I the only leans I can think of relate to taxes and things now we can refuse to issue permits to people that owe money to the town under the part of the law that covers it I don't I don't un I don't even know if it's legal for any committee to collect money for leans and use it for their own benefit leans are usually something that go through the town because of the legalities of the whole thing that's a question for Jim I think PA already researched it so so under the law that lets us lean the three that we do now the title fives the demolition lean leans under that law it says that any type of Municipal uh charge or fee can be leaned but each one that's going to be leaned needs to be specifically approved by itself at town meeting so Mr Tax Collector to the best of your knowledge does anybody currently have other than within your Authority as tax collector and and that kind of thing is anybody getting fees from leans other than the town of dayon specifically the town meaning it comes into I I understand what uh what Nancy's getting at she's saying in other words we shouldn't find people and then collect the money for ourselves because that might encourage us uh to find more people no what I'm saying to you is not even whether or not you're going to f them or whatever what I'm saying to you is if your intent is to whether you impose fines let's just say you want to impose fines it's a punishment for whatever they've done or not done I think it's one thing to say to the voters uh the fines we collect if you if you're collecting them now currently go into the general fund it closes out to free cash we're asking you to allow that money to be put into special account you've already got a special account because you get the roll back taxes all right yeah to have that money put into the Conservation Commission account to be used for now we know that the roll back taxes you used to buy other land all that kind of stuff I think if you say to them and you put the word lean in there I think you're going to kill any attempt or any hope of doing anything the word lean comes across as a really strict legal uh penalty pick a word um if Paul leans a property it could non-payment of taxes or um we had a development that owed us over $43,000 that was over three years worth of taxes and stuff that had been leaned but we did collect it by the way but what I'm saying to you the word lean lean implies something different than getting fined if you get fined you did something wrong you broke the law or whatever so the voters might go for that but if you're going to lean property or lean somebody because they violated your bylaw I think it's a can of worms I think it's going to be very difficult by by leaning it under this chapter it what that means is it's taking the money that was owed at the end of the previous fiscal year and adding it to the third and fourth quarter of the tax because that's the issue we're running into right now is that if you have somebody who has fines and refuses to pay them then then then what what happens they just kind of float out there in ether and you could take civil action against you want to you could deny certain licenses or permits but if they don't necessarily need those licenses or permits they don't they might not care they don't have any any real reason to to pay their Fir and so that was what we were looking to cure with this is that if we can add them under the tax bill requires them to pay it well you can add a fine to a tax bill right to collect it there I'm I'm telling what I'm saying to you is the word the term lean the dirty word has legal implications that if anybody hears it they're not going to think of it as a fine or they violated the bylaw and they got fined so what I'm saying to you is uh before I use that word I would I would strongly get some kind of advice legal advice or something yeah we can we can call MACC and get some legal yeah and that's fine because that is exactly what we do with those three now the septic charges the sewer and the um and the demolition is those are leaned now is the and that money closes out to uh estimated receipts and then free cash or something like that oh well so might get something yeah that's separate so they do have F that that would go to so you're you're totally right that would be unique for those funds to go into a revolving fund all right and the other thing you got to remember roll back taxes the town approved that many years ago okay and you have been getting income from solar Farms those have probably been the big ones okay of recent history um they're going to be aware of that all right and that is unique because if you remember there was a time when the finance committee wanted that money that was a Home Room Bill and actually when I came back I said we must have a lot of money and then it was discovered that that money was not in our accounts and we had to transfer it so hopefully hopefully I I have no idea what you balances all I know is that the biggest expense that I'm aware of came out of it was the 150,000 that we needed to buy Council Oak to but I also remember saying when I asked if you would do that I also remember saying you're going to get the roll back taxes from and I told you what the solar Farms were okay so all I'm saying to you that's something else you got to keep in mind because the roll back taxes that go into your account that doesn't close out like those other revolving accounts do so it's like you're all competing for money oh no one can touch that that rollback tax money that's secure because of the town meeting vote everyone that has revolving accounts every year has to ask to have them renewed replenished up to whatever the cap is so you need to keep that in mind too and keep in mind how much I have no idea what's in your account but you should also keep that in mind too I know lately uh I should say as as of late you You' been asked to pay legal expenses and all that kind of stuff yeah that's next on our agenda from uh that account um I I just wonder if there's any way that you can um like like the town is doing with Weston and Samson the work they do we aren't paying for we get that money up front who from whoever's project it is we want looked at so I don't know if that's any way that you could also do that um that wouldn't require a bylaw if you need services for something um obviously if someone's taking legal against you they're taking action against the town that's not the same thing but if you like you do with your you got 53 G's right Consultants so um if those expenses could be kind of moved over to that and your conservation money would be more protected less expended on stuff that's not land acquisition or Wetlands whatever you're going to do with it the reason I referred to to it as lean is just the first paragraph of the section of the law that add that money for the tax bill says any city or town May impose a lean on real property located within the city or town for any local charge or fee that has not been paid by the due date said lean shall be known as the municipal charges lean provided at a separate vote at a town meeting by a Sor town taken for each type of charger fee like that's what we did with SE and so it is a municipal lean it's not quite the same as tax title it's not best title in the town but that's what it has to be it has to be considered a a to be added onto the third and fourth quarter if you were to lean someone someone some property whatever issue a lean against them in order for whatever they want to happen they have to pay the lean or if you have a municipal lean and you put it on their tax bill because they didn't pay their um some kind of license of permit fee if they pay the license of permit permit fee does the lean go away it would become part of the tax bill at that point so it it would just be on on their tax bill in addition to what they owe for the permit or whatever it is they haven't paid if it was like a do you mean like if a municipal charge that was that was unpaid got leaned under the tax bill yeah so no that they wouldn't have to pay it twice it would just that money would be moved from being outstanding in one place to being part of their real estate so they would pay whatever the charge was that they haven't paid yet the late the late P where does the lean go it's just removed well it's it's it's part of their tax bill so it's it's an unperfected so it's not requ so it's not really lean then right is it's not so we should so that's why that's this is why I'm saying this is why we should Wipe Out the word lean this gets well we can't because legally that's what it is is your your a charge that's part of your tax bill is considered a lean it's not a perfected lean it becomes a perfected lean if it gets recorded in tax title and then gets recorded okay the source of the income you're talking about is fines is that correct yep so the there should be a way if you're going to and maybe the library has the the copying fee and the what is it lost books or whatever whatever they got a couple of them so when money is received for for those Services reasons whatever they go into those accounts and they can use them to buy books or whatever it says okay that's their source of income for those accounts the source of the income for the account you're talking about is a fine or fines right and our our Logic for that is that where we have somebody's got a bad violation to the point where we have to find them usually by the time we get there Lisa's probably put 20 30 50 100 hours worth of work and like trying to track this person down trying to fix the situation and so the reason that we wanted to do that is so that if she does have to take enforcement action that's going to result in extra expenses certified mailing over time whatever the case may be that the town shouldn't be the one ultimately paying for that really it should be the person who C shouldn't be the person who's not commited violations not who's responsible for paying the taxes that so is the statute statute that you quoted is it specific to conservation commissions no it's it's it's literally any any unpaid Municipal charge can be leaned to a tax bill if the town meeting authorizes it to just Di the past has only ever authorized demol title and sewering but in theory they could you know they could authorized unpaid dog licenses and if they did and that got approved at town meeting at the end of the fiscal year the town cler would provide us we go to the assessors and and we would get committed to the taxes and then at that point when we do the actual billing for the third and fourth quarter that would become added into our tax accounting software as a line item and so on the tax bill you would send you know real estate CPA electric District water district and dog licensing yeah and past history I know I think the last one that got pasted was the didn't the police department have one at the annual town meeting some kind of an account set up yes a revolving fund for was a community engagement I forgot what it was for yeah oh might oh I you know what I think it was for was um for maintenance of the detail Cruisers I believe that's what it was yeah but what's the source of income contractors I contractors I think I'm just trying to was it licenses it might have been licenses was it ltc's what they're spending it on is one thing the question I have is what's the source of the income okay I know something passed at the town meeting not sure what the other thing you got to look at that you're going to be up against is FY 26 is supposed to be extremely difficult forget those Bond issues we get out there right now just the regular um the total amount of money we're going to need to provide the regular services in the town so you're going to have competition for that all of the money not to put in those specific accounts is used to help fund Town operations so so you need to be aware of that I obviously not I'm telling you there will be competition for every penny that's out there this coming year uh so but anyhow yeah if I understand what you're saying in the law all I'm saying is uh lean as you in this discussion it muddies the water and it sound to me if somebody says your property is going to be leaned it's like oh if you say you're going to be fine because you whatever you did that's a different story you explain it as adds a mun adds a conservation fine to the tax bill adds conservation finds that were outstanding as of when the actuals go out yeah add that to the tax bill I I totally agree that's a lot more palatable to people than to hear that your property will be leaned it's just technically that's that's what it's considered it's just not recorded at the registry needs unless it became part of a tax title later because all tax taxes is you know our our our houses are leaned every year exactly because every tax bill you get is is a lean right even if it doesn't get recorded at the registry it's still considered for three and a half years the date that ISS and in the case of that you truly have you the town truly has an asset that you're leaning against as as opposed to we're going to find you and somebody says who cares I'm not paying it exactly exactly the place we're in right now so we're just trying to give it a little more te and then when the money does come in to try to segregate it into a fund where we can use it to defay the expenses that we take on as a result of going through all the rigal that results in issuing the fines from dealing with the violations in the first place so that's like that's the needle work for TR yeah no I understand what you're saying yeah as I say that one word I know I know um I've so we're going to look for wording on that now now here I got two things that I just wrote down here enforcement action if we have to go out and give an enforcement order usually we tell someone to come up with a plan tell them that they they made an error they got to fix it and if they comply there's no enforcement action but if we have to give out an enforcement action send them an enforcement notice uh I think we should have a a a fee with that enforcement action just a thought oh okay uh enforcement action $100 so that when they do apply and then that does not subject them to um um they could still be fined after that only a 100 I'm do that I don't know that that's that's the action you going out you telling us what happened you telling us what usually by then like Paul right it's been okay usually then they then they have to get 20 hours of my time has already been spent on this you know okay I mean if you put that into Consulting terms you're talking like 20 hours I just spent 3,000 bucks at that rate right all right I mean you know I know I know okay now here's something we get all these fees that we're charging those little plets $1 a piece where does that money go and to a fund okay can we say fees collected we go it's an account okay okay because we are going to get fees from the amended order of conditions from the order of conditions from the application for site visits where are those fees going to go well that would be that ultimately if we if we're successful that's they would go into the revolving fund okay now would that be a separate that would be a separate warrant AR yeah that would be that is the separate I believe that would be part of that separate warrant article because I think I could be wrong and I'll I'll double check and um but I believe that the revolving funds and if Nancy if you know please let me know I think that the revolving funds that we vote on annually at T meeting do say what those Fe sources are so I'm just I'm thinking about the library one where I I think it says like copies late book books we know copying the other thing you need to put in there is what's your cap you will be C at whatever it is right capped at $5,000 the cap closes out to estimat receipts free cash and it ends every year whether you spend a dime or not and every year it starts up again it doesn't accumulate right and that I think that would be fine because we' just be looking to defay the expenses that were taken on during the year the thing is with your committee and quite frankly if if if was Stone was talking about this I'd be saying forget it because the public is going to say you have a budget if you need money put more money in the budget what you're attempting to do is supplement your budget up to my what you to cap it at okay so and as I say um the more committies that ATT then maybe we can buy bug spray and stuff like that for me I mean honestly that's what we're up against i' go back to what I say to you yeah we try we put it in the budget and we get you have a budget we got I can tell you you're not the only Department in town that buys insecticide repellent stuff because the guys that work outside all summer along and heat the bugs it's part of the supplies for the operation of that they also get a stien which I don't get a clothing stien I'm ripping we we can vote that out if we put this money into a that account yeah we can we would do this we would uh uh buy you uh new speci why we could do that too I think we all need sun hats to be honest but not a red hat I would feel much better if we all had sun hats if Dave goes on another site visit with me without sun hat and sunscreen I'm not inviting him anymore just saying um that's all right I think we know where we're heading on uh we're going to have three articles on the warrant we have to I think the easiest one to word is going to be for the bylaw the other two are going to be a little bit more uh tricky to word to make them acceptable yeah when is the town agree but the the good thing about that is that the other two um Nancy jump in from the correct please is that the other two that we're talking about are not um bylaw changes right we only have one bylaw change that'll require a public hearing yeah and so depending on when the documentation is all going to go out for the warrant and everything needs to be finalized and the placeholders have to be completely buttoned up um we may potentially have one more meeting know I'm not sure when the Selectmen are going to seal the door if we have to have a special meeting we can have it in um maybe the first week of October we got to come up with a date yeah do you guys want to come come up with the date now or at the earlier the better right yeah we could do like a save the date if it's necessary don't necessarily have to have let's see October I don't know uh got a meeting at 4 that will be done by five on October 3rd that's a th that's what date is that what day Thursday two weeks Thursday okay i' say we do it October 3rd oh on a but that that's not a definite yet that's well I just need to so every Thursday I bowl on a league can't mess no it's fine so that would have to be posted in the newspaper I'd have to be out of here by 6:15 uh we could start the meeting I don't know five o'clock on I don't know would that be Jack on Thursday five o'clock 5 o'clock okay and that's um only if needed I'm missing tonight but I pre- balled 170 one game that's only if needed okay Mr chairman you have to let cable know head resources okay just let you know we all work fulltime jobs does is that is it a must that it be recorded I'm not sure I can't answer that okay all right so we we 5:30 or something we could see how that would work 5:30 yeah tenative if need to pending the you know I don't think I I really don't think that it's going to be anyone's even going to show up 5:30 might work uh yeah it's a little better than 6 you have to call that it would be a half hour me I don't expect it to be longer than no I wouldn't expect it to be long yeah no I I agree we just hashed everything out um and you'd have to leave by 6:15 well I'd like to 615 6 6:30 I could be a few minutes late you could 710 split okay all right okay so we have a tentative date we have a tenative date so our regular date is going to be October 19 no 17 October 17th 17 okay and this is a tenative date October 3rd and that will be posted uh upstairs and will be posted in the newspaper right so I have to figure out from sharah how many days in advance it has to go in I think it's five days so so in a week so maybe by next THS I'll find out have War article wording complete on that hearing night yes you can't make changes after the hearing because you'll have to schedule another one okay but that would be that would be only the bylaw and we get that we get that essentially done now that is that is 99% done yeah we're talking about if we need to revisit the uh the other two about the revolving fund and if we have to tweak that only talking about the not the yeah okay so I I I think we're all set that that' be bylaw only uh that we would do that uh we would uh uh pay for it out of our account uh I don't know which one we had there but we got a couple whether it's the roll back account we can do that okay um shall we move on um I think we have one more item on the agenda item so um for whatever reason I don't have the sheet that shows the amount exact amount but it's somewhere around 10,700 I think left in what in the legal budget that's that's from the annual town meeting yeah so um I I believe that we can also use the rollback on that if necessary if necessary yes I just wanted to update okay was that the the review discuss act legal fee budget okay yeah so I don't know we're not really at a point maybe when it gets down to like five but a lot of this too is actually what we're dealing with now is more planning board than than us we just we just had that meeting with that's executive session what that that would be an executive session matter yeah we don't we're not talking about that we can't discuss specific okay all right um so anyway so I think when it gets down to be like 5,000 or will or S maybe next month it'll I'm going to I'm going to uh that meeting that we had with Matt no but that wasn't executive the one no to discuss it here with the commission would have to be executive no we we weren't here no I'm telling you that was you and me and Matt that's different what Paul's saying is if the commission's going to discuss legal matters we have to go into executive okay all right okay I got you okay okay last so are you feeling like we might that that the town's legal budget might or the amount approved might be inadequate because something we could do could be to put in a placeholder to ask for more at the special and if the selectman disagree or you know we determine that it's not appropriate because we have roll back that's the problem right so we we could but the roll back's being used as you know like depleted I know we could we could have a conversation and know if we could always Nancy we could always withdraw a war article requested if we submitted a warrant article request to the Selectmen for the special and then decided not to pursue it before they print the warrant you can tell them forget it if it makes the warrant and you go to time meeting you can just say we have no motion on this okay all right so for our table okay okay thanks uh Mr chairman would you be willing to entertain a motion for another warrant article to increase our legal budget the special P meeting uh that's not the way to go I don't need to make a reest um uh the uh you need to get the it won't be a special article you'll be you'll be I would think you're going to be asking for a transfer of funds but this is something that you might want to run by the finance committee chairman and just say looks like we're going to run out of money or run very short on legal um see a separate warrant article is not the same as in effect amending your budget what you're going to ask for is you want more more money in the bud if you need it right see a warrant article once if it's passed it doesn't go away until it's voted to go away everything that's true so we be better off talking to fincom and getting seeing if we can negotiate TR we need to get the word out that um you can put something and writing to the board of so going a copy the fin card in the TA and say uh we're concerned about our legal budget and we uh would like we request an increase of X um see where it goes from there that's that's a much better idea yeah you don't thank you the last time I went with fincom all they kept on was throwing out our rowback money and what we have to do is one see how much money is in that account okay and how much is set aside for the case at strawberry uh Fields uh because we got probably $100,000 going out for that we that we should discuss that in executive session um yeah we're not talking about it right now well okay but we got to see how much money we are going to have after we make payment there and I think we're making payment as we go along if Lisa reminds me on Monday is know I'll be able to pull the balance of the fund that's that's not difficult for me okay all right okay the balance of the legal fund balance the roll back fund yeah but then we would know how much we would have we we could if we if assuming we have money for legal fees we would know how much we have there uh to to go from one account because that's uh that's what is included in there the big thing is our land purchases right so we want to make sure that we spend down that special that annual town meeting article first yeah before we touch the rollbacks we want to keep that in there as as we can yeah and and uh um I don't know at this point in time you know we we don't have uh office on land so we we'll see how that goes okay so um um three three things for the special town meeting um and you're going to take care of two of them or look into it you're going to talk we're gonna talk to Jim on the that and while then you can let me know um when I come back uh I'll be back next Friday okay you should also submit your written requests for a budget increase with those other things you're going to submit all right because even though it's not per se a separate warrant article you're asking them to act on this if they put it on there at the town meeting so closes and you say oh by the way we forgot to tell you we need an increase in our legal budget they can sa you too late so you need to get the request in for uh a potential increase in your budget to cover legal expenses Jim digits that should come from you I'm saying is get it in by the deadline for this other thing as aay right um that has to come through me you said that's Monday usually it comes from the chairman it should be the chairman tell bab you can't go you can um uh write out something she can okay well how about if I if I vote will we vote it now to have Paul act in my place I I don't I I don't know I don't know um but I I would like to see how much we have in the rback because if we have sufficient we wouldn't need legal extra legal we don't know what sufficient is I mean it all depends the ability to get more legal it would be good though because legal can only be spent on legal or rollback could be spent on legal or land purchases or more well that's what it's intended for a land I'd rather preserve the more versatile money and see if we could and if you recall we asked for more and then we go right and that was when I spoke with the former Town Administrator I had initially intended to ask for 30 and he said to ask for 15 now and then 15 at the special was something that he originally brought up but uh who who would you address at this a Monday meeting um I would say meeting you mean Monday the Monday deadline the mondaya deadline ected and Town Administrator yeah of okay Town Administrator I could call him from the bus ride I'm on my way to Atlantic City we need more money okay uh are we all set uh to adjourn or I am do want see do we have does any public input I think we've had it my only question is I didn't realize you started at six and what I came for was what happened with Grasshopper are they all done now we've heard we haven't heard a blessed thing from them table table to a date uncertain they'll have to re notify the abutters when they do uh and they yes they have to rentify everybody they were only before us for the additional cutting they didn't come back to us for the basins we didn't require that so the approvals that were granted by planning and storm water were contingent on I was was firsted it was contingent on what happened with planning planning told me last night we're all set and it's contingent on what conservation does if you have not given this thing the approval they can't stop digging next week and that's what good plan so we told them it was I told them it was it would not require um an amended noi I told them they could capture it in the as buils because we all want the thing to function close to hear you said yesterday no this is this is they applied for the recutting of more trees this that's all there're before us for right now St l a meeting you stated you expected the hearing to be closed for what you made the statement I was standing at the podium I expected that Brook Street was going to be Co Brooks he was the standing at the podium it's the only project no he didn't come before us for that that's not what I was talking about so what I'm saying to you is the impression that I had was I came tonight to find out are you all set with Grasshopper grass Street Sola is clear to proceed with excavation that's why I need to question on the order before us now is the cutting of more trees and we have not and we are at she's not talking about the cutting of trees she's talking about the basins I'm talking the Bas but I'm saying we're de with that where with so so I think the answer to Nancy's question is yes right they're otherwise all set as far stor storm water and I had told Nick F the issue that they have with us is that they want to cut additional trees that we didn't that we didn't because the bu neor also brought up the whether or not and he would be disturbed and it was and initially you had said there would be no disturbance in Wetland area so that me they could go ahead with their thing all right no additional work in Wetland areas yeah the only thing that was confusing is the statement you made yesterday when we were talking about the project moving ahead moving ahead meaning they can go down and start next week Excavating that big Basin that they're fixing it and install the new system in the bottom and before it's covered West Samson site they'll probably be there watching some of this but before they bury that new system it's got to be inspected again and then when it's put in place and everything's back it's got to be inspected again and then they got to pray for rain or water in it so that it can be tested so the only thing I need to know is there is nothing on your agenda no relative to grasshopper that would prevent them from starting their construction no and what I was speaking with ahed about was specifically the Swip inspections I need to start seeing them again per hour original order that was part of my concern because he said that they would do it there was a big discussion about not what I'm concerned about okay only because when I went I went to planning and they said if everything's okay with p i saids then it's a go I'll go to them you can find out what happens so that's the on that portion yes it's okay I didn't require them to come back before the commission for the basins because I figured West between Weston and Samson and level design at the end when they come for the as builts that's when they can come and say hey this wasn't designed this this was designed differently than the way it was built and this is why so they captured in the as built and the certificate of compliance you guys don't need to no because they're not they're not going outside the footprint of the base no I I I I'm following you completely okay good it's only the new filing with us that that's gone sour the the past is is ready to go yeah it's been ready to go asking about everything it's it's a go I mean I I I guess the only thing I would be concerned about and maybe I should ask Nick is have they do they have an expire do they need an to extend their order but I'll that they're going to cut the trees if they get permission they're not cutting they're not cutting in the trees that they asked to cut in our buffer zone they only they revised it all so with the planning board so it's only outside the work outside the buffer zone and since they haven't come back here it's not absolutely positive they're going to do it anyhow so if they're not going to do it they they should notify you we're not going to do it right but we have to leave on our agenda until I understand that I understand okay all right I'm looking for a motion to adjourn so moved all in favor I was