okay I'm going to call the meeting of the storm water committee to order it's 1:9 p.m. this is a meeting uh monthly meeting of the dayon storm order committee Wednesday April 17th uh uper town hall meeting room old town hall meeting room this is a public meeting being video and audio recorded for posting on YouTube and this is uh also a zoom meeting and I can see people have zoomed in on this um please stand for the pledge of Al Al to the flag of the United States of America to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all the attendance roll call Phils here calonia here Tom Perry here Nancy G here so we have a quum um I heard from Mr Woods he is not feeling well he said if he felt up to it he might zoom in agenda item 4 a um I got an email from Mr Haz uh shortly before I left home and he is planning to attend the meeting uh but he's going to be late and so I told him that we would uh take him when he arrives so I need a motion to take agenda item 4B out of order this is Weston and Samson engineering project macf yes which is the arujo solar Farms so moved have a motion is there a second sorry any discussion none all in favor Hi I hi excuse me um so Mr rid or Mr Pearson uh this is the arujo solar farm do you have any updates or anything to report I think the last thing we heard on arujo uh Macs was that um the asilt didn't match the original plans and we heard from Mr Warren uh Pete Warren that um he had a question about the dates of the plans I haven't heard anything since I did find some plans and gave them to Mr red January uh of 23 so and there was also um a very thick I'll call it a log book of stormw water calculations which I gave to him so um that's where we are so do you have anything to report um nothing new to report um we've been holding off uh pen and receipt of uh new materials from the um from the applicant and so that's that's about where we stand on that um do you agree James yeah it was my understanding that uh there was a a newer as built that was forthcoming based on some emails from the applicant so um it seems that we're we're waiting for that um we don't we don't currently have any uh anything in our current scope of work about doing any additional review at this point um the only thing that we had remaining in our scope of work was to do a site visit um we do understand that based on the comments that we made in our review letter that may require some additional reviews so if that is something that the storm water committee desires for us to do at some point then um we can have that discussion when that time is appropriate okay any committee members have any questions or any any comments anything okay um the next next excuse me agenda item review discussed act zero Elm Street [Applause] status good afternoon yeah Tom Morris with Zena's Consulting Engineers um so to sum up where we stand we've been in front of conservation and planning both have been approved and last night we went to uh Board of Health and had the variants approved for the open Basin um so at this point we kind of just need to know where we SP end um in terms of any additional permitting that may be required I'm not sure if there is any what about the other seven waivers so that's something we're unclear on how the town is handling it okay um just because so from from my understanding just reading the regulations it was Board of Health was to Grant the just the open Basin and then all the other waiver requests are underneath the subdivision RS which are pointed to by the site plan RS uh for planning board so it was my understanding that planning board would have jurisdiction over the rest of the waivers um whether or not that's true I'm not sure uh no that's not true um that's why I suggested that we have a joint meeting as far as the open Basin goes um I know that the regs required that but we haven't done that literally for well since I've been on the storm water committee uh because as part of our ID plan uh an underground Basin can't be inspected so you can't detect elicit discharges so um although it's still on the books it's something that's going to have to be revised because kind of an outdated uh yeah yeah um that will be part of what Weston Samson looks at when they help us with uh revising the regs um and the bylaw so um what uh what I was looking for and what I had uh asked you and Mr Ziggler for were uh a chance to look at the plans um and uh Mr Ferry and Mrs caldonia were going to be there so to do that um Mrs Easter day is not here to around Nancy she's out sick okay so um I'd still like to have that meeting to just look at the plans and ask questions of you so that if STW hasn't had a chance to even look at them and certainly any Committee Member that wants to look at it can I just if we have more than three I just need to post is there a reason we can't do it here at the meeting um I do have a print out okay why don't you set that up um Mr I me also huh I'm here also oh okay um now I see T okay so um Mr Mr do you wish to make any comment on the wavers did you get them in writing at the last meeting that's what was talked about so yeah go ahead James yeah I mean I can I can say that we are familiar with the waivers we did receive them we reviewed them originally as part of the planning Board review process um the waivers that we're aware of are the same as they were with the planning board and at the time that we did the planning Board review we we took no exception and had no objection to the waivers that they were requesting Mr rid do you have anything uh I think uh I think Mr Pearson summed it up very nicely um and as uh you mentioned um you know we have not received anything formally to review for the storm water committee for this particular project so uh that's been on hold ending that so at the last meeting you had asked for the wav is in writing have you gotten them in writing no they they uh came in through the planning board but not the storm water committee so generally generally speaking unless somebody uh tells me something different my understanding is that they would need to come in uh through a storm water application of some sort in order for us to say that we should be reviewing them and that we've received them for the purposes of the storm water committee okay so the just to clear something up the reason we didn't submit any new materials is because there are no new materials it's all the same as what's been submitted for the planning board okay so could we get a copy of those written requests so we can see them it's just all on the plan and that email that I had sent to you a while back it's been on it's been on the seven of them in the email wasn't there a discrepancy with the number yeah eight there's eight but one the um B of Health granted the one for open Basin okay so there's seven additional but all all of those have been on the plan since day one of submitting with conservation and planning the top the top sheet or yes yeah yeah okay you have that I do and I have a print out of the email too okay so if if you to do a um yeah can I have that please okay um if you want to give a presentation on what it is you're talking about sure so I'll read out the the waivers so the first one just being the open storm water basin um and then the next five or six have to do with the construction of the Basin um specifications that they say in the subdivision regulations one being um that it must drain dry the Basin that we're con that we're proposing is a conru constructed pocket Wetland which is designed to hold water um in a permanent pool so um when you wer on that a depth of greater than 3 feet within the basin um so this along with a couple others was necessary to limit the [Music] um the area that we'd have to work in based on the slope of the site if we had to keep it shallower the footprint would get bigger and we'd be running down that slope and never be able to catch up to it without doing a a large retaining wall um so the next one is that the Basin should require a channel um that channel doesn't apply to our proposed Basin um that's typical of a dry detention Basin okay before you go any further um could you put the plan up there and just point to two and three I'm sorry the the wave is two and three um two is to allow uh storm water wet land so if you can out on your plan where is that Wetland so this is this is this is the open Basin we're proposing okay and it's what it's called under storm water regulations from the state is a constructed Wetland um more specifically a pocket pocket Wetland um and the construction of this includes a permanent pool um with some Wetland type vegetation inside for treatment um and the as you can see from there's little Contours inside the Basin those are little pockets where it kind of comes up and down so that the treatment gets kind of brought through those cells um so the reason why it's a pocket L can you just explain a little bit more is because you've dug down to meet ground water right you so we're not actually ground water just because of the slope okay um so what we're doing is we're lining the bottom of the Basin so that it will hold water okay um but the reason we're doing the pocket Wetland versus the dry detention is to get treatment um because a dry detention Basin really gives you nothing for treatment it's just holding back the water for the flow rate um so to meet treatment goals and we're actually exceeding treatment goals I think I had mentioned in the previous meeting that a lot of the other towns who have updated their storm water RS based on what the state is saying or feds are saying they want 90% TSS and 60% phosphorus removal um which we do meet with this design even though it's not required for dayon great um on that one on that wave Alisa Conservation Commission discussed this one they okay with that um we we reviewed everything yeah with Weston and Samson and yes we were okay with that so the only additional concern I have with the project is the fact that one of my Commissioners had brought up snow removal and you know snow piling and what you're going to do with that snow and I believe I in Arrow maybe didn't um include that in the order so I would just ask I think we have that shown on the erosion control plan yeah so it's going to be a little hard to see maybe but here at the end of the parking spaces there's a large flat area where we can push the snow all from the entrance here and then there's an area up here near the entrance um that is suitable for stacking some snow so as it melts it will go into that Basin and then drain through the ground um yes some of it will go into the Basin and some of it will go kind of into the Swale that directs the um flow from the other portion of the site around us so some of it will go into the Basin some of it might go into the soil and go down the slope okay so as I'm looking at that Elm Street is on the left Yep this is Elm Street and the slope goes down as up the page right right so that swell will catch the water coming down the hill yep and direct it around the site coming onto the pavement and creating flooding issues on the site um all right number three depth greater than three feet could you go back to the first page there y okay is the whole Basin going to be more than 3 feet so the Basin or is it that round little round thing in that I can see so it goes from 48 and then our per our permanent pool is at 44 so it's four feet deep to the permanent pool and then an additional 2 feet deep underneath the water like in the deepest spots and we're proposing a this was something brought up yesterday Board of Health as well um they just wanted if it was going to be that deep they wanted some sort of fence around it we are proposing fence there's a guard rail along the edge of the pavement and there's also a chaining fence that's being put around the rest of the FM all right but that wasn't an addition that was already on the that was already on there yeah nothing has changed yeah along with that security it's a gated when it's not in operation it's gated off no one has access whole site or the Basin the whole site we didn't have a gate on the site um if that's something that needs to be done I'm sure they'd be okay with that no I'm not requesting I was just assuming the whole thing was fenced off no is there a gate in the fence around the pool so you can access it to clean it y where's the gate so it's right off the end where I said you've got flat area we're putting a gate right here so you have to pull off the end of the parking spaces and then you be able to go in and do your maintenance y okay um just to follow up on what Mr Barry said um we're not requiring it but I would strongly urge you to have a gate at your driveway because if you notice uh your neighbor a little bit to the north the pond and you look at the pump house we have problems there with kids in the summertime but in addition to them jumping in and the police happen to kick them out there's graffiti that turns up there and what's that building made out of it's just going to be a metal building yeah so my concern is graffiti which is not storm water but because just a general concern it's it's appeared on the the house I call it the pump house the gate house whatever that thing is right at the spillway of the dam kids with paint get attracted so you know just just to follow up on with Thomson okay um item four open Basin without required channel so this doesn't apply to what we're talking about here correct so that applies to a dry detention Basin where you just have the water channeling through okay and then it's the same thing for the next one with a slope bottom because you just want it to flow through that detention Basin like this you really want it to come in and just level out in that permanent pool there's no slope to it okay um 3 to one slopes so what are the slopes is that that big Basin you just showed us yeah so that's this these slopes here on the inside and the outside of the basement I believe everywhere is is 3 to one um so the regulation states that it needs to be 5 to one uh which I think there's there's one other town that requires that too but 3: one is typical um from the state and most other towns um and it's safe for walking you can mow the grass on it okay um roughly what's the widest Dimension and the longest dimension of that Bas um kind of hard to say just because an yeah but if you want to what gu uh no move move your thumb to the the far corner there no now go all the way across straight across yeah roughly I mean this is a 20 scale that's probably about 100 maybe 120 Okay then if you measure from the the top to the down to it's the the end of the driveway that's about the same that Dimension okay thank you um SEC number seven underground Chambers without pre-treatment roof runoff so we're providing recharge uh to meet the state storm water standard for recharge for the roof area um that's going underneath the pavement um so so the roof drains will go right into the ground near the buildings go right into the chambers that will infiltrate into the ground yeah okay um so we're not providing pre-treatment there because it's not required by the state regulations um roof runoff is is considered clean yeah and number eight allow drain pipes to be installed with less than three feet of cover yeah so that uh typically most towns have that regulation and it it points to the construction with reinforced concrete pipe um and what we're proposing is the corrugated HTP plastic pipe and ads the manufacturer states that a a 12in pipe which is what we're using only requires a foot of cover um to be H20 loading underneath the pavement so I mean I think we're providing it's at least a foot and a half might be closer to like 1.7 feet of cover on all the pipes so we're above that manufacturer requirement okay um all right so number one has already been approved by the Board of Health so we don't have to act on that one does anyone have any questions about the plans or anything you've heard so far questions no Mr R Mr pearon any comments questions or anything um not for me James you no thank you okay so the the number two um allow proposed constructed storm water Wetland to have a permanent pool so this has already been approved as and uh if you will under concom rigs uh so uh the storm water committee needs to a vote on whether or not it's going to um agree with this waiver because the con con can't technically wave this so is there a motion so moved the motion is to Grant a waiver on number two um which is the proposed constructed storm water Wetland to have a permanent pool so we have a motion is there a second second discussion hearing none all in favor I hi hi Mr Ferry unanimous so that's that one's taken care of um to allow depth greater than 3 feet in the proposed storm water basin um and as he described it's a sloped uh excuse me Basin um then it will be four to what was the deepest one six 4 to six feet uh is there a motion on uh to uh Grant this waiver motion we we have a motion is there a second second we have a second any discussion comments anything discussion yes I just want to make everyone aware at last night's Board of Health meeting if there is more than 24 in of standing water that a fence will be required and I believe there's post yeah I mentioned that too right okay um speaking of the fence this is not a storm water requirement but obviously you said you're going to do it would you consider a six foot fence uh might have to ask ask the U owner all right uh again my concerns are um I don't want to make the neighborhood sound bad my concerns are young not little kids I understand okay but might be worth thinking about sure okay uh we have a motion and a second to allow a depth greater than three feet in the proposed storm water basin uh hearing nothing else um all in favor I I I I I uh that one's unanimous okay item number four to allow an open Basin without the required Channel doesn't apply so that's a simple waver and let's go on to five uh allow open Bas without required slop bottom um so just for the purposes since they're on the list and acting on them um is there a motion uh to wave to allow an open Basin without required Channel and allow an open Basin without required slope bottom it's kind of a Mot Point except they're on the list so I think we ought to do something with them so is there a motion to uh to allow these two that's items four and five motion to allow four and five second okay we have motion second uh hello when you get ready to write these these will be together and take the wording that's on here indicating uh that it's not required all right but I don't want any to look at this and say well you never acted on these two okay okay um Mr um Pearson or Mr R you have anything no I I don't have anything James do you no okay uh we have a motion in a second all in favor hi hi hi M yeah I I okay and it's uh nul and I so that's a unanimous one item number six uh to allow three to one slopes inside the storm water basin rather than a 5 to one when I mentioned this a month ago you talked about um the additional area that would be required on a 5: one and that uh let me just find it in the minutes here okay a basin I guess it was Mr zga that said this A Basin with a 5 to one with five to one slopes literally would not catch the grade and water would run off the site can you show that on the so because this is at its deepest six feet deep um going from a three that's a three to one these are three to one okay all these are three to one if we were to go from 3:1 to 5:1 that's a 12T difference on each side of the burn um so for comparison this is 24 ft wide this aisle right here yeah um so that would be an additional width to the top of the burm and then to catch up with the grade and to reach it before we hit the property line here we'd have to have a large retaining wall are those lines altitude lines I'm sorry are they altitude lines like when you show height you know this thing is sloping mhm to the north correct sloping down to the north yeah yeah I mean yeah yeah the grade goes south but the whole thing is sloping to the north I'm looking at your arrow there yes okay so you would be beyond the burm that's plan this right outside my highlighted Mark is the outside top of burm all right so if we had to go to 5 to one slopes that would be pushed out 24 ft which be probably about there and then this outside slope would have to start there which would cross over the property line and even if it didn't even if we ignored that it drops down so quickly here that we'd probably never catch up with that slope with a 3 to1 slope unless we put a retaining wall in oh okay so my question about the lines are uh when I say altitude they indicate slope yeah the elevation from the Bas up yeah yeah okay all right yeah so each each one of these lines is one foot in elevation change um so I need a motion on uh item number six to allow to wave the 5:1 requirement and allow the 31 uh slopes uh to be approved within this excuse me stab base so moved we have a motion a second any discussion uh Mr uh written Mr pearon um no further discussion from me James from you no none for me um I want to suggest an amendment to this motion we have never done this before the difference in slopes is really important for safety this is a unique situation so I would like wording in this motion that says that this waer is granted for this project only and does not constitute setting up a precedent or setting up a practice simply because this is really a unique uh project because of the slope I don't want somebody coming in with another project that has more land or something that else and automatically says you've granted a 3 to one for them you got to give it to us Mrs chairwoman does it make sense to say the motion was made due to extenuating circumstances on this project site specifically I I I specifically want to establish we're not establishing the precedent in granting this waiver or a practice extenuating is open to interpretation I don't want to do that pints excuse me we could say due to side constraints no no okay because I my project I'm going to have restraints when Mr Ferry comes in and asks us yes [Music] um so whoever made the motion are you willing to add that to it I'm trying to Rite some language that would make sense you could just word it as due to the specific topographic features of the site we are granting this waiver um Heather um so friendly amendment to Grant the waiver excuse me Grant the waiver from 5 to one slopes to 3: one slopes inside the storm water basin due to specific topographical requirements and not to establish a future president so who made the motion I did all right is do that friendly Amendment work for you or do you want to add anything that works has a friendly Amendment yes does that need to be second also uh no no because I haven't call a vote we're in discussion if I wanted to amend the whole thing yeah we'd start over but a friendly Amendment add language okay oh we can do an amendment it's it's just that I'm trying to give hea uh Heather the information she needs to write this motion no that's fine okay so we have a we have a friendly Amendment proposed is there a second to this uh friendly Amendment if not we'll start second it's all right with you discussion uh Mr red and Mr um Pon any comments on the friendly Amendment no uh comments for me on the friendly Amendment okay um would you read it back just for the record please to Grant the waver from 5 to one slopes to 3 to1 slopes EXC me you speak up to Grant the waiver from 5 to one slopes to 3 to1 slopes inside the storm water basin due to specific topographical requirements and not to establish a future president okay that's the motion as it currently stands any discussion hearing none I'll call the vote all in favor I I votes unanimous um number seven okay this we already explained this one this is the roof drains so I need a motion to Grant the Labor uh to allow underground Chambers without pre-treatment um and in parentheses roof run off so we know exactly what it is that's being approved here so is there a motion a motion to allow is there a second second and discussion just just be advised Mr Woods is on also excuse me Mr Woods signed on on Zoom oh okay uh hey Woody how you doing feeling under the weather but I'm you sound like it um we're working on the waivers uh roughly what time did you sign on Woody so we can put it in a minutes it just signed on like two minutes ago okay all right so um there's a motion on the floor excuse me to wave un underground Chambers without pre-treatment roof runoff to wave this Clause uh do you have any comments on it no ma'am okay um hearing none all in favor I I I I vote unanimous and uh number eight um this is the one to wave the requirement of drain pipes to be installed with less than 3 ft of cover is there a um motion to Grant this waiver motion to Grant this waiver we have Motion in a second any discussion questions whatever comments uh Mr Woods I'm good okay uh Mr Pearson and Mr red com okay um I'll call the vote all in favor I hi I got two eyes so far hi sorry all right vote unanimous so you're all set okay I have something for you in touch with the EPA just information I'm going to print up a whole bunch of these and leave them around so uh the committee will have per huh is this the nifty's permit these are basically the guidelines on who needs a construction site permit the thing is with this as you found the Federal Regulations are much broader than local regulations right okay so what we waved really relates to the town of dayon um they gave me this because have been situations that have Arisen in the past somebody says I don't need a St water permit and I figure rather than just arguing it it's here the important thing I think in this is that their construction Rags is acre or more and I know a number of communities use an acre or more I don't know when we revise ours we're at 35,000 square ft so there has been talk about making that smaller and there's been talk about making it bigger but anyhow uh that's basically what this is okay just informational stuff y okay thank you than you very much thank you okay um Mr HZ you ready and Nick is here also hey guys I'm here hi uh happened to um he's on twice he is oh hi can you hear us yes I can okay so we're now back on agenda item 4 A Street solar so um I received an email with plans and all that attached uh so where are we with that now as far as who did you send those emails I didn't print it so who got the emails and what's the status of having the new plans reviewed we have I have sent the email to uh Weston and Samson and uh yourself miss calonia Mr agar Mr Ferry and to uh Carrie Easter day and Mr uh the chair the chair of the planning board Jeff Calo yes uh Nick what what is there anything new in these plans or have changes been made because of the results of the testing the last test holes were du yeah I mean I can pull it up on the screen if you want or I can just it whatever is easier for you guys at the meeting but I can give a quick description if that's the easiest uh try doing it on the screen uh if we can't see it we'll just tell you to wing it right I need to be um enabled oh does anybody know how to do that does that do it no not yet you are screen sharing it says so he's allowing to yeah when I click on the screen share button it says host disabled participant screen sharing oh okay I don't know if you need to go above my little box and then enable it from there X out of that of the Box Tom okay Nick why don't you do a description sure not a problem so I mean overall it's what needs to be done to install a a subdrain in Basin one is the main uh change that we're looking at doing so I'm proposing a network of 4in perforated pipes that would be installed at the bottom of the Basin the pipes are about 50 feet long and there's four pipes that are about spread out 10 feet in between each different pipe and they're all connected to a solid outlet pipe which is a 4 inch solid PVC pipe that would discharg towards the existing um outfall area where we have that large RI rat pad um at the base of basin one so what we we' be doing is filling in that area with a little bit of extra Stone and installing that 4 inch subdrain Network within the the footprint floor you know not to get into it too far this is going to be looked at by Weston and Samson on behalf of the the board but um we took a look at the approved design that was initially done by Atlantic and then I you know did some additional calculations and provided some additional information that compared what the flows out of the Basin will be with the installation of the subdrain and in the new model I also updated the uh the infiltration rate so the design rate at which water would drain through the Basin it was initially um set at I think it was 2.41 inches per hour and I dropped that down to .27 inches per hour so you know dropped it down by over 90% from the approved plan to more accurately model what's going on and that layer that was encountered during the test pits um whe When Wesson and Samson was out there so that restrictive layer that's you know over 10 feet below grade but um that is that seems to be the layer that's restricting infiltration so I also did a small calculation that shows you know if this Basin was full based on the the volume that exists today that if the Pond was full in the pipe Network the subdrain was running full it would take about 34 to 36 hours for the volume provided in that pond to drain through a 4-inch pipe um that's well under the 72 hours allowed so assuming that there may be some restrictions in the flow um you know that that pipe that 4in pipe should slowly drain out the pond after the storm of EV which within 72 hours we don't want to put too large of a pipe in there as it'll negatively impact our post-development Peak flow so we don't want to let too much water out too quickly or else you may have Downstream impacts so that's why I went with the Forin pipe um and uh the network of perforated pipes kind of like a septic system type piping that you would install to collect the water at the bottom of the Basin and drain it out slowly now there still be some infil ation that occurs uh we have that good sand layer that we put in but we're not relying on that like the previous design was relying on infiltration to empty the uh the Basin out so that's the modification that we're requesting for Basin one for Basin 3 it's a little bit more simple um on my provided plan I'm just showing a minor regrading of the bottom of the basin to make sure that the water is Flowing we'll say from north to south towards those existing discharge pipes which are currently installed it is a long Basin it's about 300 feet long um and the the low point which the way it was graded is located on the other side of the existing Outlet pipes so by changing the the floor grad and putting that low point near the existing discharge pipes that Basin should uh start to function better and drain out quickly um during uh and after a storm event so we're gonna the goal is to get all the water from you know the we'll call it the north side over to the South Side um where the pipes are so that water can be discharged appropriately so other than that those are the major I would even call them major but the changes we're proposing to address this longstanding issue um you know pretty confident that by implementing these measures we'll be able to rectify the ponding that is which is occurring in Basin one and um the ponding that is also occurring on the north side of basin three I also provided a detail letter with all this information in it you guys can read that at your leisure um it does include a table comparing the approved design flows and volumes compared to where we will be after um we in make these minor modific modifications to the um to to the basins as we have today um overall the flows will be mitigated accordingly as required by uh state standards and your local Wetland storm water bylaws there will be a minor increase of the flow leaving the basins um in all the storm events about a you know 0.1 acre feet on average now that's because the original Basin was designed to fully infiltrate so that all that water was going into the ground now we are letting it go into the ground and we're also slowly releasing it from the Basin through that 4in pipe so there is a minor increase in flow but the peak excuse me in volume but the peak flows are still managed and maintained as required by uh your local bylaws okay Mr Pearson on Mr rid um I know you haven't had time to review all this stuff uh is this um latest request for review covered in The Proposal that you originally submitted no this would uh this would be uh new scope and so um uh as um you know given that if you would like us to review it we would put together a proposal Amendment and an updated budget for you okay um I will send an email to uh Mike Mullen the Town Administrator uh indicating that the new plan has uh been drawn and that um there's going to need to be additional review of the new plan not only for storm water but for the town in general any Department that has to look at this um Nick is there any with that Basin number three that we we call number two because there's only two in total any of the work that you've designed in the new plan or solution to that problem will it affect anything in the conservation area that work um would that some of the work for regrading that Basin would fall within the 100 foot buffer zone but it's within the area which is currently permitted uh under the existing order of conditions so we're not making the disturbance footprint larger than what it currently is we're working fully within the approved project boundary um so the work should be minor just some regrading at the bottom of the Basin which is within the confines of the approved limit of disturbance and then we'll be doing some work with the outlet pipes just uh updating and modifying the uh the elevations because we'll drop those pipes to the new Basin floor that's going to be established once we lower the the floor grade near those pipes to make sure that Basin drains towards those Outlets but no there's no new disturbance which would require uh additional permitting through conservation but I let I'll let Lisa take a look at it and let us know if she thinks that we need to come in for modification go ahead Lisa so now um ahed you already have um a revision with us that's pending so um due to the fact that the commission had tabled that um because no one was present so we tabled it to a date on certain which means you have to R notify a Butters and a new legal notice needs to be placed um so can you just include it all in one if you're still planning to do that additional tree work okay we might not be planning to do the additional tree work uh so does this need go back to to uh conservation if it's within the approved uh limit of disturbance so can Nick can you send me um a letter that basically says exactly what the changes are as they pertain to the Wetland protection act um and kind of reiterate what you just said to the storm water committee um and I will talk to my chairman and we'll let you know if it needs to come back or if it um or if it could just be captured through the asil process does that make sense thanks we'll do does uh keeping in mind that um obviously this these plans are got to re be reviewed by um others in town um Nick you planning to attend a planning board meeting to make a presentation or to discuss the plans or anything like that well I believe um you know this would be the first step in just getting this plan to the storm water committee and then we were going to submit a letter a formal request to the to the building commission for review and determination if this you know crosses that threshold for um a major modification that would need to go before the planning board or is this something that is considered a construction change or minor modification that would not require U notice to the planning board um so we'll we'll go ahead and get that formally submitted and I'm sure Mr agar will provide us a formal determination and if the determination details that we are required to go back to modify the special permit then we'll make the uh required filing okay uh in the meantime I will send a email request to Mike Mullen uh advising him that there are additional costs involved with the review by Weston Samson of the new plant so they can make recommendations and I will ask that he get in touch with uh uh w Samson to put together a proposal so it can be sent to Mr HZ regarding additional costs does anyone on the committee have any questions or comments obviously we're going to be discussing this again um but um I personally don't have anything about the basins at this point because of our Engineers are going to have to review them assuming we get disf funded so anyone else have any questions about this project this is uh just a minute anybody on screen U Woody do you have any questions no I don't thank you okay Mrs BOS if you would like to come up morning B 1680 Pine Street um where is the water supposed to be going it looks like what I just saw on a on a picture was that the water is going to be draining if you're looking at the at the solar field from the road um it's draining on the right side of where all those rocks are is that correct um you want to defer it Nick I think we should defer to you on this I know the answer but I think we should defer to you sure no the I appreciate that so yeah the the outlet pipe will be embedded in that stone rip wrap area so you know that that does two things it'll help prevent erosion um at that outlet point and that is the main discharge point for the Basin where that existing Spillway is so um from my understanding is that there's a wetland near that area and there's a small intermittent stream which runs under our driveway so the water will go out the Basin in um and be directed towards that splash pad and then continue on into the uh Wetland area and which connects to I believe a storm waterer ditch that runs down Brook Street I believe that's the final discharge Point um for the for the water from the site though the the overall analysis that was done by Atlantic and the existing uh conditions analysis showed that that's where all the the surface runoff from this property went um before it was cleared and developed it all made its way down towards that northeasterly corner of the property which is what created that Wetland and is why you have um that small intermittent stream uh right there where we had to install the the little three-sided box Culvert so long answer it's going to go in the northeast corner of the property uh and run where the water used to run before the site was developed okay well there was never a quite a pond there so that kind of water didn't run there there were trees to drink up that water and don't you think that if a Butters need to be notified that there should be more a Butters because there's more water running down into a Butters I won't call them a Butters Neighbors further down one right now gets water right across their driveway and I can't imagine what this is going to do if if that pond when it is there goes all the way down it it doesn't seem like enough of Butters of being notified that it would affect people further down on Brook Street M yeah so the letter that Nick referenced he was going to send to me I'm going to then make a determination what type of modification this is either way the planning board will weigh in but um whether it's minor or major is up to the planning board well up to me based on my my findings in the plan and the original permited project so one way or another there will be some public hearing um I just don't know at what depth it will be so in one case it'll be a posted public meeting in another case then ABS will be notified via certified mail I just don't know which way that's going to go yet okay um same thing with conservation okay um I assume that would an engineer be there when you're doing from the town when you're doing all this work yeah our our review engineer is on now they they'll be submitting a full report review on the plan and they would be there to watch it all to to say that you mean site inspections yeah site inspections will be part of it yes okay um and I assume you'd have to wait a while depending on rain rain is the determination of whether this thing works well um I don't want to speak for the engineers but they they're going to do their part in making sure that what Nick is proposing meets the requirements obviously world is the only way we see if it works however I'm not an engineer but based on what I see they're proposing as a fix as long as the other standards of storm water are met it doesn't appear that this will fill up any longer the way it used to it will have a mechanism to drain off remember my last analogy I said it was like a bathtub well they're basically putting in a drain in the bathtub right um I just going to say and yes the pipes are buried the pipes are buried yes okay so there wouldn't be once it's and you're saying it would empty within 36 hours I believe if it was full yes Pip's flowing full uh it should 4 inch pipe at the slope we're proposing given the known capacity of that pipe should theoretically drain the Basin Within 34 to 36 hours so that leaves a little a decent buffer of time um for the Basin to fully drain in that 72h hour period okay all right now that's kind oh Lisa I know that you had asked for um some sort of something that they were supposed to do checking you asked last last month um asked them yes you asked um Mr Swift inspection yeah I think that was one yeah one set just came in this week oh okay I was just you did get one okay thank you thank you Nick I have one question this is a carryover from last month's meeting I'm looking at the minutes so there was discussion about the the TSS total suspended sols um so with pipe that you're talking about now being smaller which means the flow will be slower will that also help clean the discharge I don't know how else to describe it there would be no I mean there's no Associated TSS removal um I mean I don't think there ever was as part of the overall development um I mean we could look at you know it's a difficult situation to provide something like that because a lot of times you have a pipe Network that's draining to a basin where you can treat that water with a variety of methods you can send that water to a certain place where it's treated uh but when you have all this just Overland flow draining into a basin um it's difficult to provide you know point source TSS treatment um you know the idea I think with the original approval was that this site's going to be lawn area um vegetated and that there' be no required TSS removal treatment um I know there's been some discussion in the past where the site was not stabilized it has where it wasn't seated and you were getting an excessive amount of sediment running off into the Basin causing issues um you know I believe that issue has been mostly rectified with the recent seating and uh vegetative cycles that the the site has gone through so we don't see that as being a major concern you know with the basins okay there's no TSS removal as part of in you know getting this Basin to to to drain out um the reason I asked is because obviously we thought we were going to have an infiltration Basin now we know if that doesn't work and when you refer to when you excuse me you refer to water in the Basin or a pond and then you talk about drain pipes it's like how fast is the water going to flow out of those pipes because it could carry soil with it so that was the only reason I mentioned that and we did have that come up at the last meeting so um I just wanted to follow up on those minutes anybody else have questions for uhz or Mr candola coms anything nope I have one question yes Mr yeah this is through you to our review engineer provided we get approval from the Town Administrator and the monies are submitted for your review how long will it take your firm to review the submittals um that you received via email yesterday I believe so um I would I would say we need to uh have the approval to know for certain first of course um and a question that I actually uh had was uh whether you would like us to start the process of writing the proposal now or whether you want us to uh formally wait for uh Mr Mullen to ask us to proceed with that um generally uh generally these kind of reviews um take two to four weeks somewhere in that neighborhood um from the time of approval okay you accepting motions uh yes I'd like to make a motion to authorize Weston and Samson to prop provide the town with a proposal for this review is there a second I'll second it discussion hearing none hi hi hi hi um I I got one concern the procedure that was established I'm not sure this commit has authority to do this because the procedure that was established when we first engaged Weston and Samson was it had to go through um I'm still going to send the email to Mike Mullen asking him to contact you and ask him how quickly he can contact you so that if he recognizes the vote of the stor water committee that was just taken then this process can be expedited but I don't want I don't want I don't want to leave Mike melan out of this because if in fact you we just voted to tell you go ahead and do it and he says you didn't follow procedure um that's that's a it's kind of a touchy situation so I think so no sorry yeah so want me no no no I'll I'll do the um no I'm going to send the notice and I am going to say that um you know what I can amend an amendment is in order okay I'll amend my previous motion to include that Weston and Samson proceed with their written proposal once they receive approval from the Town Administrator all right we have an amendment to the original motion is there a second to that second any discussion on that okay so this vote is going to be on the amendment uh did you get that Amendment no would you state it again please sure I stand with my original motion however I'd like to add the amendment as follows that Weston and Samson only proceed after the Town Administrator gives his approval okay receed with the proposal right it's a good point Madam chair I can see them doing work and all of a sudden there's no money oops um so can you read the original motion and then we'll add the amendment oh boy okay I'm trying to put it together now um the motion is to have Weston and Samson review Brooks Street solar um that's all I have I have a vision and then your revision your amendment was to only proceed after the Town Administrator gives approval okay so we're voting on the amendment so we we have so we've got to vote on this amendment first then the next vote will be on the original motion as amended okay so all in favor of the amend amendment that Weston and Samson only proceed after the town ad administrator gives his approval uh for the proposal all in favor I thank Lisa I said oh I know sorry down uh Mr adad did you vote I did and I voted all right so now the original motion which was to uh ask Weston Samson to proceed with this the the that's the entire part of that with the amendment that was just uh voted um can you read that back of what was just the amendment no no you read the the beginning okay first part where where the storm water committee voted to ask them to proceed to have Weston and Samson review Brook Street solar the amend um only to proceed after the Town Administrator gives approval okay uh any discussion questions or anything all in favor I I motion carries unanimously okay um let the record show that um Mr Woods has left the meeting uh he just texted said can you be rebooted ohed oh he's just coming back now refreshed refresh so we want to refresh him or we want to boot him no we don't want to you sure oh there he is you hear us yeah it's [Music] buffering is he is he now he's in what can you hear us I'm back okay so did you hear that discussion on the vote and the amendment that we just took no I didn't no I got booted somehow oh so um initially there was a motion to uh ask Weston and Samson to move ahead with the proposal to review the new plans for the yeah I heard all that and then that was voted unanimously and then I said I was concerned that um if the storm water committee doesn't follow procedure which means we have to go to Mike Mullen to get permission and he's the one that has to contact won and Samson so the amendment was uh to proceed only uh lesson Samson to proceed only with uh after he gets the approval they get the approval from Mike Mullen so that was the amended that was the amendment to the original vote so do you wish to um vote on that uh Amendment and also be recorded on the amended original motion yes I'll vote in the affirmative thank you on both of them yes ma'am okay all right so do you have that it's getting complicated okay uh Mr HZ do you have anything else on Nick no I'm good thank you okay thank you appreciate your time okay uh the next item is five active project updates Blue Wave Sola Treemont and middle streets think Greg M house is on hi Greg yep how's it going everyone where did all right and Alexander was say okay uh so um where where are we with this with this project um anything new happening um yeah we're we're we're pretty much wrapping up out there uh right now we're kind of prepping the site for the final seating which we're planning to do either later this week or early next week we're just waiting on the seed delivery and uh you know just kind of doing some Swip maintenance minor cleanup here and there um one one I note on there is we do have a crew available tomorrow to clean up um the siment by sunken Brook so I got to reach out to Mr Tom Ferry about that to coordinate that but that just kind of came through the pipeline about 20 minutes before this meeting started I have a question yes go ahead Le how will that be done is that gonna be done with shovels by hand yep shovels and buckets everything by hand great thank you no problem um so Mr R on Mr P Pearson um I guess it was Mr rid the emergency visit that was taken um has that report been compiled yet I know you were waiting for information I think from Town Administrator yep so uh we have been asked to put that on hold uh pending um uh identification I guess of an internal source of funding for that um and so uh we are still on hold with that aspect of the project okay yeah and that that might be on me I talked to the administrator a couple weeks ago about getting the check out there for that cost so I got to follow up with my accounting team to make sure that has been sent yeah that sounds like it would probably take care of it yeah yeah so I think uh that's on me right there so apologize for that I'll make sure that's sent out this week okay does uh does anyone have any questions for a Blue Wave project uh comments or whatever um Mr Ren or Mr Pearson um the other part of the proposal for this solar farm uh eventually we're going to have a site visit and uh I guess kind of a walk around or whatever um does the report that you're waiting on waiting so that you can release it or whatever does that have to be released before the site visit or anything else or I'm just trying to figure out what's the next step for storm water so um I would have to uh pull up the proposal that that we put together to be certain of this but I believe the way that's structured was we were asked to as you know asked to go out there and uh do I don't know an an urgent inspection I'll call it um and so uh so we completed that and uh we knew that as part of that we were also being asked to put together a report um and so that was included in the proposal also I don't believe there was anything further in The Proposal that we had sent at the time that we put that proposal together um I'll double check that while while we're talking about this item but I think that's where we left it so it didn't include further meetings or a uh further field visit okay what I'm what I'm asking about is the proposal that I asked for originally was you were going to review everything and there was going to be a site visit including storm water committee members who wanted to go and the the I'm only now talking about the original proposal and what was going to come out of that was a statement a written report of something to the storm water committee indicating that the inspection's been done done the site visits been done so forth so on and the stor Water Management plan that's out there uh is working properly so that we can V to accept the report and then give a copy of that to the Building Commissioner so that he can take over what he's got to do yeah so I'm I'm uh Madam chairperson I'm pulling up the scope of work now to remind myself of what's in there and so this is I I'll just read it because it's only two paragraphs okay so uh it included an immediate Fe field in investigation uh we'll conduct a visual field investigation of the project site in areas where storm water is being red our inspection will focus on good construction period storm water management practice and parent storm water failures EG excessive flow uh routing erosional issues um we have budgeted for our review engineer to participate in half day of field investigation once the field work has been completed we'll prepare a memorandum with the results of the fieldwork including our opinion as to whether the system is functioning properly we have budgeted uh time for a one-hour meeting with uh with Town staff to review our findings so that wouldn't necessarily be at the site but I suppose it could be um we have included time to present the findings of our field investigation memorandum at a meeting of the planning board and a meeting of the storm water committee um there will be verbal presentations only no PowerPoint presentation will be provided uh we all attend both meetings virtually so that's what we have in there okay other than the the um let's say the the emergency visit the unscheduled visit will has that been a a full sight inspection by an engineer there not beyond that immediate field investigation that that's what we were uh asked to do so the original proposal didn't include a visit from Weston and Samson no it it did it include it included a half day of Investigation but that was just that immediate field investigation I thought you were asking about an additional some sort of additional investigation of the whole site or something no no it the as I said I knew that there was going to be an inspection or something that hasn't been done yet there was the immediate um field investigation so that was back in I want to say it was January yeah January when you say immediate are you talking about what I'm calling the emergency visit yeah okay I'm leave that out of this because that's got to be addressed separately I'm only talking about the original request for services my understanding was there would be a site visit assuming the emergency visit never took place yeah I'm my understanding was there would be uh a site visit um and no not an all day thing but whenever the site visit was going to occur uh and having Weston and Samson Engineers or engineer on site we would be notified ahead of time so that anyone in the stor water committee that wanted to go out there and and the planning board of concom if they were available would go to the site and just kind of walk around with ask questions and then that site visit would be part of the final report you're putting together relative to the functioning of these somat Management Systems I I don't uh I don't believe that was ever requested of us okay I'll check with Mr Mullen it's I'm sorry it's possible that it was discussed at some point and then since we were told to put it on hold um you know that's where it ended okay put what on the original proposal or the emergency visit report so or everything so the sort of sequence uh went like this um on a day in January I received um you know an urgent contact from uh the Town Administrator Mike Mullen to conduct um a field investigation of the Blue Wave site and um you know we we had a discussion about it we said okay yep we go ahead and do that and then he said um please put together a proposal uh to cover the cost of that and putting together a report and the couple of meetings that we discussed the one with the planning board and the one with the storm water committee so we sent in that proposal that proposal was approved but then very shortly after that we were asked to put further work on hold so we had uh completed that emergency investigation um and frankly we'd also we'd also written up the report but we did not deliver it at that time because we were asked to hold off um so we didn't do anything further um and if there was further discussion of um of additional of an additional field review out there I'm sorry I just I don't recall it okay so as of right now other than that report that's on hold what's left in the original request for Engineering Services relative to the storm water management system um in that emergency request there is let's see the one-hour meeting with staff to discuss the result and then there are the two meetings one with the planning board and one with the storm water committee as a followup okay anybody else have any questions or comments or anything okay so um Greg are you all set you yep I think I'm Alla and just um another thing to know is we are working on our final civil civil and ala survey right now we expect that to be ready in about two to three weeks so we'll make sure we share that when we have that and maybe if there is another a need for a site visit from Weston and Sams and we can kind of uh roll that into roll a final visit and that into one thing and kind of get everything we have left to do knocked out in one time just a thought okay Alexander do you have anything nothing initial for me thanks okay uh we all set with the I have a question oh go ahead Lisa Alexander had um a few you know areas that needed to be repaired out there can you just give us an update as far as the siment controls please yeah of course so um the I sent over the most recent report we got it in uh just as this meeting was started so that should be in your inbox um to take a look at but essentially um there's just one area that's kind of on the western corner of the site that we're having folks come out to tomorrow that should be able to take a look um they repaired all perimeter controls but there's just a little bit of sediment buildup that um needs to be cleared out so So the plan is to get them kind of in one swop tomorrow to to take care of that um other than that I believe the most res report didn't have anything else called out but I can double check to confirm right so the the real um the real low area at the at the South End of the property has been all repaired and dredged out there um Greg do you have an update that I would have to I would have to confir confirm um let's look at pictures quickly yeah so I I can't confirm that it's completed at this very moment but they are out on site today tomorrow and um Friday to finish up all these repairs all the clean up kind of our final spring cleanup before we seed so if it's not completely done right now it will be done by the end of the week all right can you make sure that I we see photos of all that the beginning of next weet please yep absolutely we've uh definitely been very clear with our site super to take any photos and an excessive amount of photos of any work they're doing out there of course I'll make sure to to get those over to you as soon as they come in all right and are they being responsive as far as the repairs because it seems like maybe they have a dragon on a little bit the past few weeks no they are currently you know they are kind of we're kind of in a down nothing really going on site period and with all the water and the rain we've been having it does make the repairs more difficult but now that we have a nice clean dry week they're they're out there and they're being very responsive okay thank you uh Greg I had a question on the corner of tmont middle streets yeah um if I were going east on Tremont Street approaching Middle Street which would be a right turn between the fence and the two streets there is I call it natural vegetation as old stone wall and as grape Vines and grass and all that stuff um is that going to be allowed to grow up or is that something that the owner is going to mow or I was just wondering because I was thinking if it doesn't get mowed at least a couple times a year it's going to turn into brush and stuff I didn't know if that was it's beyond your fence it's towards the street but I was just wondering as I drove by because of when we had the burn break there was uh water that went down that way do you know what the plan is for that con is it going to be anything done I just let it go natural so I don't know exactly what um the land owner is planned for that but he do we did make sure he has access around our R to get back there with a mower so what he plans to do with that I'm not 100% sure but I know a big point of the design in the initial design was to make sure he had has access to all the areas outside of the fence yeah okay I wasn't sure if uh if it was um the landowners I know he owns it but I didn't know if maintenance who's who that fell to but um that's fine like I say I was driving I was curious uh so any know that's that's I'm all set uh anybody else have anything on Treemont Street uh hearing none I guess we're all set all right awesome I appreciate everyone's time thank you all okay thank you have a good day you too uh agenda item new business future of storm water committee this came up because of a meeting that was held um Tuesday April 9th 6 7 p.m. the uh purpose of the meeting was the six-month check-in on peer review process meaning um the services that have been provided Ed by Weston and Samson uh to dat and um there was uh a selectman present um planning board zoning board wasn't there um kincom stormwater uh Town Administrator um so forth and so on so after that meeting uh Mr Mullen said that the chairs that were there should forward the document role of storm water committee Conservation Commission and planning board in storm water related permitting it's a draft dated March 5th so that was sent out and the other attachment was the town of dayon stormwater bylaw rules and rs as of excuse me November 2nd 2009 which is the last time they were revised so um the first document that was forward role of storm water committee conservation and planning um stor water had nothing to do with this uh we would not ask for input um so when I saw it at the meeting obviously I questioned it um there are statements in here that are not factual um based on the latest uh Federal rigs um which don't involve um post construction runoff which is the big Bugaboo that we're waiting to deal with um so the other thing that happened was there was a violation of the open meeting law because uh there were four members of the storm water committee present uh when this meeting was set up I specifically questioned who would be there and we we did not have a violation however uh when the meeting was called to order there were four of us present so we've kind of got that hanging over our heads uh the situation has [Music] become uh it's become to the point that even though I've had reassurance from the board of Selectmen repeatedly there is no plan to disband the storm water committee I don't know how many times I have to ask that question I don't know how many times I have to be reassured one of the things I did do is and these are for public dissemination anybody that wants them uh and I certainly have an idea for the committee these are the EPA rigs or outline of rigs this is what storm water committees have to do I ask that no one respond to me so we wouldn't have any more violations um I have not read any emails uh up until I just was ready to come here before the meeting um at that meeting on the uh April the 9th um Mr Agia pointed out uh expressed his opinion that this storm water committee has not met its obligations and that we should be doing enforcement meaning storm water basin maintenance um and that uh permitting has become a problem so I invited Mr agar to speak today about what his concerns are about storm water um I have since received an email from Mr Agia everyone should have gotten this email um that's critical of this committee and how it's we we started out okay and then we are now um deviated from its intended role in purpose um I really think this is something that should have been brought to the storm water committee uh months ago years ago whenever we started going astray so anyhow I really don't know what the plan is for the storm water committee I can tell you the chairman of the board of health spoke to me and he said uh the selectman had spoken to him and said what was his feelings about the board of Selectmen taking responsibility for the storm water Committee in other words taking it away from the Board of Health he said to me doesn't matter to me what do you think I said it's fine with me I don't know where it's going I haven't heard anymore all I know was the Mr Pica was not opposed to uh having storm water go under the board of Select as a temporary measure until we get all these bylaws and rules and regulations straightened out but so we're here today you've all seen the paperwork I think you were all copied on the email so I wanted to give Mr agar an opportunity to address the concerns so simply put my email speaks for itself I chose all the words in it carefully um we have deviated I think from the intended purpose which has been said repeatedly on numerous occasions um that we are here in charged with the ongoing maintenance of existing storm water infrastructure it doesn't mean that we cannot act as a supporting Ro to the permit granting authorities which in this case are the planning board and the Conservation Commission but I don't think this committee needs to be deeply involved with the permitting of projects I believe those roles are well defined in the documentation both locally and Statewide and um if you think back about some of the back and forth that we've had in the past regarding well we can't do anything until conservation weighs in or we can't do anything until planning board weighs in planning board says we can't do anything until concom weighs in or till storm water weighs in you can see where it creates Mass confusion if you take storm water committee out of the permitting process and we are here simply as an advisory role to the planning board of the Conservation Commission we can certainly give our input the committee is comprised of of knowledgeable people who have um experience with storm water but I just think there's redundancy in the permitting process and that's creating confusion uh dysfunction in my opinion for uh applicants does anybody wish to comment on Zoom or here I will since this is personally directed at me first of all this stor water committee was set up to represent this town and to protect the interests of its residents number one key not every Tom Dick and Harry that wants to have a proposal they're all welcome as long as they follow the rules these are available for anyone that wants to read them these are from the EPA the only changes that has happened is we're down to now two states Massachusetts and New Hampshire who have Primacy for storm water which which do not have Primacy for storm water which means this committee and this town answers to the EPA there is no other committee board commission or anything else in this town who reports to to directly to a federal agency now as far as the state storm waterer handbook that was the Bible until they two years ago when they didn't update the post construction runoff regulations needless to say there's been a tug-of-war going on between concom excuse me between mass DP and EPA because keeps trying to get legislation passed to take this away from the EPA and so far it's failed so I think when the EPA told the D update those post construction runoff rigs they thought well that's going to take a while as a result of that 50% of the communities in the state who relied on the EPA uh to look over our work and let us know if everything's okay we got whacked haven't been fine yet have been told at quarterly stormwater Coalition meetings the Statewide Coalition meets four times a year present at those meetings are usually Newton T Michelle voodo and whoever else is around there's like five people in at EPA who CI reports now a statement was made that we file that ms4 to the EPA they don't even look at them that that statement is not true because if I don't hear from them within a few weeks of filing I always send an EPA and said did you get our report um and the answer is yes we get your a report and we will look at it and they have gotten back to us with certain questions uh number of uh catch basins and all sorts of good things um the concern I have is that number one the storm water committee hasn't held up anything the delay with zero elry is because we weren't included initially okay today was the first time I got to see the plans and I'm glad he brought them in because I had requested a meeting specifically with Mr Ferry Mrs calonia myself to avoid the you know Quorum thing to look at the plans and ask questions so I'm glad that he came in today with those so that we could see them and ask questions uh if the intent was leave them out it'll be rubber stamped that isn't going to happen anyone who knows what the storm water committee has done over the years and why it was set up NOS that doesn't work permitting is part of the process now as far as maintenance of storm water basin I pointed this out at the meeting on the nth Mr AG said I judge is to enforce those space and maintenance you can't enforce what you can't find and repeatedly it started with Heidi and Ros and as late as Carrie they had looked through the available records they can't find plans that show storm water basin how do you m something maintain something if you can't find it now another misnomer about our charges when this town the find in 2007 had nothing to do with storm water basin maintenance it had nothing to do with filing an ms4 it had to do with a very important component which no other community board or Commission in this town is required to do by the EPA the fine was because you have no bylaw well we got that no regulations we got that you have no educational program tell me what what other group in this town is required by the federal government to have a storm water education program for the public nobody so when you simplify everything we do other than holding up things this indicates to me not knowing what our original charge was our original charge came about because in the bylaw it said for developments the Conservation Commission and the planning board had certain obligations relative to storm water management and enforcing the Barm and the RS by the time 2018 came along when we were um formed it was because first of all stock water rules and rs were not being enforced because quite frankly nobody had the time the explosion of housing developments and solo farms was overwhelming the amount of work that has to be done when you're reviewing solar Farms or housing developments is an awful lot to dump on conservation with the clean with the uh Wellness protection act planning board with the rules and regs it has to follow and so a storm water committee was set up to if you will take over enforcement of the storm water bylaw rules and rs as a result of that all of this filtered down now when you talk about storm water basin and maintenance Mr Ferry pointed out a very good point at the meeting on the ninth some of these housing developments have homeowners associations who don't even understand they have an obligation well if we if we could get an inventory of all the basins out there that should be in plans somewhere at least we could say oh homeowners set that one on this list so we'd end up with the list of the Town a call Town responsibilities under the BW but then Town responsibilities in far as getting in touch with homeowners associations and asking them to please this is what you have to do all right we haven't been able to get a list anyone who knows where they all are it has a list I mean the best possible Source were the plans that were submitted and approved and as I said over the years three different people very familiar with the office could not locate them so um I think uh there was there was something else that that came up um that I think is important uh for the storm water committee to hear um we we talked about um the various um issues that came up uh relative to the various projects before us as we know we got what three solar farms in various stages we're not holding anything up if anything we're waiting because there either has to be approvals while we're waiting for in the case of um Brook Street we now have the new set of plans um and I think really the work that was done on Brook Street since its Inception by this committee uh goes beyond anything anyone would have expected to come about but because of the nature of the problems down there um we've gone through all of this and now it appears that hopefully we are at um close to a settlement as far as solution to the problem um the uh what I was referring to at the last meeting we were talking about zero Elm Street and um this was towards the end of the discussion on zero Elm Street um chairman Gul suggested a combined meeting with planning board Mr zga said they thought they were doing everything correctly that tells me that they had wrong information to begin with it didn't come from us because up until February we had not dealt with zero Elm Street so don't know where that came about um Jim magia suggested that in the future with any applications being submitted it must be streamlined to all three planning board conservation and storm water committee that needs to be better Communications and procedures um so there's nothing in here about removing the role of the storm water Committee in the permitting process we don't hold up anything we're usually waiting for others so I don't know where to go with this but I think it has to be clear I think the board of Selectmen has got to make a decision on whether or not this committee continues under whose guidance it operates uh and the other thing too is because this is a whole package deal as was the fine we got back then I realized back then $3,000 was a lot of money in my opinion any fine is too much money especially when it's non-compliance the fact of the matter is you can't start taking pieces out here and pieces out there it's a package deal I need a commitment from the town for this committee that says henceforth this is the way it's going to be rest assured I've got projects that have been discussed at Bristol Plymouth there's no way I'm going to Bristol Plymouth to follow up on projects if this committee is going to be disbanded or is going nowhere but personally all of the people over the years that have served on this committee uh representing all of the boards if there were problems they should have been brought up before now and in all honesty I have to rely on what Mr Agia said a month ago to this committee anybody have any comments or feelings or ex question I do yes go ahead I respectfully disagree I feel that there's an overlap in the permanent process I feel that a lot of what's discussed here is discussed with planning and conservation and to me it just creates confusion I don't think we should be part of the permitting process I think there is a role for this committee with permitting however most of what we've permitted lately I think can be done through planning and conservation if we did that that would free up the time that we need to go after the current systems that are in place which we don't need to research plans to find what they are you can just drive to a subdivision and see what's in there for storm water management I feel that storm water uh the storm water committee can play a bigger role in making sure the operation of the current systems that are online and in place are being maintained properly because design is just as important as maintenance you can design anything you want but if it's not maintained and it's not going to act properly and it's not going to function the way it was intended and we have completed dropped the ball on the maintenance side of things I agree we've tried in the past but it's gone nowhere and we've been consumed with permitting projects that I feel should be permitted by conservation and planning so that's that's my opinion it doesn't mean that this committee doesn't have a role that's not the case it has a role just not in the not in the role that it's evolve into no not in the role you want to assume now I'm going to go back to the the maintenance again I mentioned this at the meeting on the 9th I don't print these things up for no reason I don't make these things up anybody who wants these help yourself these are the feds one of the things we're required to do in the idbe which is the um the separate plan we're supposed to have to identify illicit discharges and so forth and so on one of the things that requires is a basin uh inventory if we don't have a basin inventory how do we ride around this town and say oh sir you got a you got a storm water Bas it on your property you haven't maintained where is it listed on a Town document we have no Authority at all simply because we're not in compliance with the ID that is a federal requirement that was the whole basis for doing the research to find the Basin I certainly wouldn't have asked those three employees back and do research over the years if it wasn't required not my requirement it's part of the idde if you don't have the inventory how do you go to anybody and say you haven't maintained that Basin the only the only Basin I know of that we were actually called to get involved with was and it involved the septic field too when the homeowners were taking off I guess they have by now Sunny's way we were we didn't go out there CU we went out there we were invited to go out there and look at it because the homeowners wanted to make sure when they took over the maintenance issues from the developer the Basin storm water basin was okay and they even got the septic feel involved so what came out of that we went out and actually did a field visit site visit um and um and they did what had to be done you got to trim the um stor water basin and they moved a gate in a fence because the homeowners wanted that and then they had to mow the um septic field that's the only Basin I'm aware of that we have gone out and actually after someone's request actually gone out and done that the only other one that I mentioned that got enforced because it was dangerous was the one on Elm Street in a Housing Development where there was a a a pit unfenced grown up with trees and all this stuff but there were other problems where they hadn't completed the development not storm water problems and the developer wanted the bond released and the town said Not until you do the storm water basin and and they uh fixed sidewalks and I think lamp posts but but the town as a unit said no stor the Basin the bond will not be released until this list of things is completed so again how do we go out and go on anyone's property or go say to anybody uh you got to maintain the Basin when we have no inventory and quite frankly I've repeatedly said um and have have told um the EPA we've been researching trying to find the basins to make the inventory we can't we've struck out three different people um all all people aware of what they were looking for so the amount of time we spent today talking about things that could have been in front of planning and conservation we could have done one subdivision today in the same time in one year's time all the subdivisions would be cataloged we have a plan and we know who to go to to maintain these things is that available now we would have to make it available you would have to change what we do during a meeting to make that happen we couldn't change it you don't want to do that well that's not the case at all well that's not what I'm hearing today I'm just we gave you an example what we did today could have been done by two other departments well if we want to talk about all we could have accomplished in February had the storm water committee not been left out at zero ounce street that could have been resolved in February that was not our turf we were left out of it it was only because Weston and Samson thank goodness we had outside Engineers who looked at it and said there's a storm water component that's when I got the email okay we need to look at it February much finally today it got resolved had we gotten that the same time that concom and planning got it probably would have been resolved before February but the other thing that's strange about that is they weren't even informed they needed to submit a storm water permit application that came in in February so February was the first time we possibly could have been involved with that because we were kept from it in all honesty but um I don't think anybody purposely we have I think there's confusion in the permanent process and that's exactly the point on not on our part not on our and furthermore when you at the at our meeting in uh March when you said the three of us have to work together now you're telling me storm water butt out when it comes to permits when it comes to permits there is some permitting that I think is applicable but the majority of the things that are on our agenda every week should be in front of planning and conservation I don't think we need be involved in it and yes we are dropping the ball in the maintenance of existing systems we are because none of them because we don't know where they are now since you brought that up the inventory of of uh um basins obviously anything that's current that can be done now what we were trying to do was to have a complete inventory and the concern has been you know like if you drive down um 138 you look at Jennifer Lane you can inspect that Basin from your car it's mold grass it drains and everything else um other than that uh that's when you don't even have to tell them you got to maintain it because it it looks good all the time but in any case um I think the next step is I will get in touch with the board of Selectmen um I will ask them to put us on the agenda to determine where we're going to go because without Direction I I I don't see how we function we've got all of this work ahead of us and up until now I mean they we we've been here since 2018 the time I guess the straw that broke the camels back was Zer M Street because nobody stepped forward before then about any of our solar Farms any of the housing developments that are out there not at all and that makes me wonder what prompted it but in any case since the bard of Select is the appoint ing Authority and the chairman of the board of health say fine with him if this selectman want to take it over the board of Selectmen has to determine what they're going to do with the storm water committee um if the plan is to stop pulling things apart uh no uh as a matter of fact um the uh concerns I have are serious enough that I intend to notify the EPA of what has occurred and uh advise them I'm not sure where we're going with storm water because I just want them to know up front uh don't come after the storm water committee if in fact we aren't here or our obligations under the nift's permit and then the 10e notice of intent that was submitted everyone on the committee at the time approved that notice of intent you don't change the notice of intent once it's been accepted and it was accepted no one's suggesting that regulations AR followed no one's suggesting that I think I think we due respect you out of line but question is who who is the pering authority there is conflicting language in the documents here in this town about who they are that's why we're going to have Weston and Samson do that work for us I'm saying is that we we we are looking unprofessional that's exactly what we're doing I don't think this committee is looking unprofessional I think there were concerns about some departments in this town and questions being raised about how they function and quite frankly storw water is not one of them uh I'm not pointing fingers at anybody but I hear the same things over and over and over and the again I go back to the last meeting you yourself stated there has to be better communication between the three major boards involved with permitting so to say now uh take permitting away from the storm water there's no basis for that oh what you said in in at the last meeting no that's not is not relevant that's not what I said there are some permits that this committee would have jurisdiction over there are but there there the the there most of what we permit and here on a monthly basis are permits that should be issued by planning and conservation I never said that there was no role for this committee it's just not what not on the path that we're currently on it's on the existing path based on our original charge and obeying the feds now my guess is if we still had an in-house qualified person as a storm waterer agent we wouldn't be having this discussion either um I think that with the changes that have occurred at the Board of Health level um and the changes in employment and the reasons why we had to go out and get um professional Engineering Services uh because number one they're really needed number two we need Engineers who are qualified who are unbiased who can look at everything and make professional recommendations there's no question um there is um I'm going to read this into the record quickly this is an email that I opened up today uh because the email it went I asking you to look at those stuff I said don't don't respond to me I just look it over we have it for the meeting uh this was a message that I got uh everyone was copied on it so it's a public document uh it's from Mr Agia morning everyone my presence at the meeting you mentioned was through invitation I have better things to do than to spend my evenings discussing storm water this refers to my comments about violating the open meeting law when there were for storm water people present now your comment specifically said that I show up unannounced or that I invite or Uninvited your comment I had to base that on what Mike mullon told me I'm sorry I can't apologize to him um I will say what others are thinking but remain silent for reasons unknown stormw started indict with good intent I enjoyed the work we did to help alleviate illicit discharges and improve everyone quality of life through proper SW management however under Mrs schou Art's leadership it was it has now morphed into an arm of government that has misread and manipulated the regulations and forced the storm water committee into regul atory facets for which it has no legal Authority in fact its actions as of late have placed the town in precarious positions that may be difficult to defend my problem is not with the storm water committee chair Nancy chair Nancy has done a tremendous amount to support the town in a positive light through the through the her years of Public Service my issue is with the way the committee has allowed itself to deviate from its intended role and purpose the committee has lost its core goal of supporting enforcing and maintaining the uhw infrastructure in town the monthly agendas have failed to address the existing storm waterer systems through the throughout the community instead we spend too much time discussing matters outside of the committee's jurisdiction the storm water committee role in town is an important one but it must be brought back in line with its core objective it was never intended to be the sole permitting arm of government for proposed storm water management those roles are for PB and concom S SW permitting allow allowances are focused s water permitting allowances are Focus they should have been defined long ago s SW should be focused on ensuring the SW systems permitted by PB and concom are being maintained and continue to function as intended time spent on existing systems is minimist in comparison to permitting things we should have nothing to do with as the final permitting and enforcement Authority for just about every project in this town I ask us to to finally fix this problem we are being labeled as unprofessional obstructive and dysfunctional those are all things I have strived to keep out of my office since I chose to Serve the People it is shameful that we have allowed this to happen all I can say is based on everything we have done since our appointments we have followed the letter of the law as laid down by the EP all of the processes we followed have obviously not created major problems I don't know where the complaints are coming from because they should have come to this committee I do remember a few meetings ago when there was comments that um a a developer was unhappy with what was happening and Mr Woods put the question right to them they didn't have anything to say um I think it's obvious that when the stormwater committee gets the information it needs to make an informed decision that is number one legal number two fa treats everyone the same who may have similar circumstances or permit requests there is no question that we followed the charge we had now for anybody who watches this this because I know people watch these meetings periodically excuse me anyone who has been grieved by action of the storm water committee that did not meet the requirements of the epa's regs and the requirements that uh and the plan that we stated out in the notice of intent that I think is now in its sixth year and all of the reporting we have done if you truly believe that has happened please reported to the board of Selectmen they are our appointing authority um I think it's that important but I also think that uh I think the people in this town recognize the work that the committee has done it recognizes the value of the work that is done it's not looking to spend more money uh to have somebody issue permits when you got a committee that's done all this work quite Frank frankly with no cost to the town of dayon um it's it's unfortunate but in any case um it is what it is I felt it was fair that Mr agar be allowed to speak today uh do anyone else wish to comment because if not we got to quickly finish this agenda I don't think it's going to take long but we got to hit all these items are we voting to send this to the vo SL man if there if there is a motion uh and a second and is voted yes absolutely I'll entertain a motion to that what are we doing what is the motion for there's no motion yeah to send it to send this to ask the board of Selectmen to meet with the storm water committee and answer the question what is the future of the storm water committee we need to know if it's going to be disbanded I don't want to into contracts to have work done at the at the school um it's kind of ridiculous uh if anything I'll I'll stop here all right so is there a motion to have me send the uh send a request to the board of Select that we be placed on an agenda for discussion of the future status of the storm water committee Tom she's entertaining a motion specific that's not pointing to what we're so in reference if I may in reference to last week's meeting and a proposal that's being presented to us to comment on is that a number one is that a regulation bylaw change uh the the the thing that came out for the um of this conservation planning Bo office um it's it's it quite frankly has no standing because of this the open meeting law violation but secondly all all Mike said was I should concom planning and storm water chairs send this out to your committee so you right so they are they expecting to comment on it and what are they what are they trying what are they trying to do is this a bylaw change or a rule and regulation the bylaw changes and the regulation changes will all come about when the work is completed by Weston and Samson the only thing that's held that up is getting the OPA money and this select and voted to go to get the money so as as to act on what they gave us last week a comment on is is not the other thing that's mentioned it mentions the concom responsibility for the wetlands protection act there's no mention at all of the Clean Water Act which is as strong as Federal legation Federal legislation and that's where it falls under storm water so that's what I said I don't I wasn't involved with this I didn't understand why it was asked for and quite frankly um it didn't fall within the purview of the agenda as it was written I was not involved either neither was I um but Jim P um Jim Ren can you weigh in a little bit is this something that you and Mike had it without Mike being being here had intended this to be reviewed by each committee to discuss it um my understanding is that Mike sent that around uh in the beginning of March um and I believe I was CCD on that uh and uh it included the members of each of the major boards um or the chairs I should say um and uh I did have uh involvement in drafting that I put that together um under Mike's Direction um and then provided it back to him but I mean what is the expectation that we the Committees do with it because are we supposed to be reading it out loud for the Committees to consider it or is it and do they want do you want feedback I Mike uh at the time he sent the email around uh asked for feedback on it um he didn't say how to gather that feedback so um you know whether whether that is brought up at specific meetings like this one or not um you know uh uh it wasn't explained in the email so the the reason why I brought it up because it it kind of deails with what you're requesting for us to act on should we go to the selectman to to discuss the future of the storm water committee or not are we going to entertain the document or we going to do them at the same time this document is not correct if anything this document I want it revised to truly reflect the federal law that this committee operates under right there they're asking for comment I can't I can't ask you to discuss it and put stuff on it because if if all of this other stuff these emails if this had not happened and this were take the S Sub committee and it would be an agenda item I'd be saying to you today well you've all seen it here are some issues that have been omitted how do you discuss anything relative to storm water or storm water management or any of that storm water related stuff when there's no mention of the Clean Water Act that is the law that is clear we have to follow that's why we have to report that's what that's the whole gist of the stormwater thing these are not local regulations per se our local regulations in some cases are our bylaw are stricter than the feds but in reading this there's too much left out so um I'm not sure if if Mike is expecting individual meaning committee board committee commission responses I don't know um he was copied on all the emails there has been no response from anybody so that's why I think because we are appointed by the board of Selectmen the board of Selectmen has to take the steps and let us know what's our status to weigh in on all of this stuff on to make comments if we aren't going to be here beyond our June appointments let's not waste time all right um we've got uh Jim Randon has his hand up oh I'm sorry go ahead Jim excuse me thank you um uh I just wanted to note that um that I took a look back through my uh through my emails on March 11th Mike sent out that uh storm water permitting an inspection costs um uh policy statement that we're talking about now and I believe it went to uh to you madam chair went to Peter Karen uh and was cc to myself and Tom Ferry and he did ask could you please have it added to the swc agenda for the next meeting so he was requesting review of it at the meeting uh sorry didn't remember that off the top of my head it's uh been a about a month and a week since that went out is the email date in March the 11th yes because I've looked all through my emails and I can't find anything on this until we were getting ready for the meeting on April the 9th that's when I got it now there was this one on March the 11 and there was another one that I had on March 19th I don't know uh I don't maybe they got stuck in the server somehow or another um but uh I believe they both included you okay yeah you want me to forward them to you um yeah that would be good uh I'm still going to go through my email all of the files that I've got to find this but the fact of the matter is this document as I said all the discussion that happened on the nth is moot if anything we need to have a meeting properly posted uh because I understand planning board wanted to have their members attend this meeting and they were denied well if I had known we were going to have four I could have posted a storm water they could have posted a planning board meeting um but if everyone is supposed to give them feedback um yeah need to have a meeting to discuss it well they didn't want us at that meeting for obvious reasons Nancy um I'd like to say that there's been a lot of political pandering going on here today and um I'm not here for that and and I'm not feeling well but you know as far as asking the board of Selectmen to look into this you know that they're not making the decisions in town anymore they don't do anything unless Mike mull Mike Mullen tells them to do stuff and everybody knows who controls Mike Mullen he's sitting right there in front of you so whatever Jim wants he's going to go through Mike Mullen and Mike m Mr Woods Mr Woods Please Mr Woods give me a break Mr Woods no I'm telling you that's the way no you're not telling anybody the trth Woody please stop you can't do this all right you don't think the board of Selectmen are really going to get involved without advice from Mike Mullen you know I mean come on I was born at night but not last night and that's all I'm going to say thank you um we've still got a few quick agenda items is there any more discussion on this I are we you know what I don't need a vote on the committee to take this to the board of Select me this is an open public meeting they can watch the meeting I can make the request they can say yes or no but in any case the public is going to know what's going on and what the status of the storm water committee is I intend to let the EPA know what our unknown status is because I am not going to have the EPA showing up oh looking at something I have been straight with them all along we have not completed our storm water management plan we have not completed the idde yes we're doing our best to live up to the notice of intent again I think we're in year six which they approved um yes we are doing everything we need to do for our MS fors when those reports are submitted they're true because the person who signs those reports in effect takes an oath and the person who signs them is me and I was voted by the board of Selectmen to sign them because the person who signs them has to answer for them so I want the people to know what has been sent to the EPA is clear is straight this can be including the stuff we haven't done so uh if there's no objection I want to move on to agenda item seven never went down oh you got to put your down oh sorry about that do we have any un unanticipated items I don't know I think could be uh public input you don't have any public input okay um correspondence I don't think we have any no um approval of the minutes of February 21 and March 20th there was only one change on the 20th and that was the deletion of Carrie easterday and I added well I think I added Rich richio before they went out so other than that I haven't heard from anybody so is there a motion we got to wait for Dave to come back um all right so report on expenses we didn't have any expenses did we that you're aware of okay as soon as comes back we can act on minutes I know we're well over our 2hour time limit here is there a motion to approve the minutes of February 21 and March 20th what what am I doing motion to approve the v motion Madam chair I haven't had a chance to review them well you had the 21st was it was it both the 21st we delay because you wanted to look at you haven't had a chance I missed a whole w i missed time being out of the office last week all right we still got to we still if you abstain we still have a quorum yeah go for all right so um is there a motion to um approve the minutes of February 21 and March 20th motion to approve the minutes is there a second second any discussion what did you have anything Mr Mr Woods I can hear you what did he say I can hear you I one more time Woody what did you say what do you want me to say I think I Woody do you have any comments on the minutes for the February and March meetings no I don't okay um hearing no discussion all in favor I I Woods I any opposed any extensions AB okay so um Lisa um not Lisa I'll show you how to write this because when you do a roll call vote you have to identify the eyes the Nay and the extensions okay uh motion to adjourn I'll make motion to adjourn a second second second on the TV all in favor bye thank you everybody thank you thank you thank you good afternoon thank you Jim Bren and James pearon very welcome