[Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] to our Tuesday May 14th City commission work session happy to have you all here um for anybody's information unfortunately our website ability to watch our meetings is down so we can't access any of our stuff either um we are live on Facebook and YouTube so anybody listening you can watch it there all right we'll call this meeting to order and uh if you'll join me and Jennifer to lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance abolutely I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you Jennifer all right we have our first Proclamation which is the proclamation for EMS week and I will turn that over to vice mayor frainy okay good morning and um maybe if we can just have everybody come up right from the start even though we're going to get a picture at the end anyway and to Le Mark and chief can be in the lead I as I I totally wanted to do this one today I was hoping I'd get chosen and just by a fluke the mayor did pick me because as you guys know I was a recent user and the vehic the new Rescue vehicle out there I rode in and uh and uh just started physical therapy on the wrist and I still called D I probably shouldn't it's a bad quote to call him my drug dealer because he gave make me fentel on the scene but any user appar yeah but it was a legitimate purpose but anyway I I just say from my heart you know when it's you it's so great to have one of the best EMS systems in the world and we do and we have an amazing EMS and fire service right here in Den Eden and it means a lot so and everybody who's had to use it knows that feeling so thank you okay National EMS week 2024 whereas Emergency Medical Service is a vital vital vital public service and whereas in 1974 President Gerald Ford authorized EMS week to celebrate EMS practitioners and the important work they do in our nation's communities and therefore this year's National EMS week marks the 50th anniversary and whereas the members of EMS teams are ready to provide life-saving care to those in need 24 hours a day 7 days a week and whereas access to Quality Emergency Care dramatically improves the survival and recovery rate of those who experience sudden illness or injury and whereas the EMS system consists of emergency medical dispatchers First Responders emergency medical technicians paramedics firefighters police officers emergency room nurses Emergency Room Physicians and trained members of the public and whereas the members of the MS teams engage in thousands of hours of specialized training and continuing education to enhance their life-saving skills and whereas National Emergency Medical Services week brings together local communities and medical personnel to honor the dedication of those who provide the day-to-day life-saving Services of medicine's front line now therefore I Moren mofin by virtue of the authority vested me by the mayor of the city of Denon and on behalf of the entire city commission to hereby Proclaim May 19th through the 25th 2024 as Emergency Medical Services week with the theme honoring our past forging our future and encourage the community to recognize these valuable life-saving professionals and you are and we appreciate it [Applause] I did want to say it was Derek and Nick on the team that came so it was yes it was yeah I didn't want to like you know leave him out so excellent well thank you Commissioners and mayor thank you very much uh I was informed by Chief parks to keep this short so I kept it to under 30 minutes so 28 minutes is pretty good there's a video a PowerPoint uh uh this year is special because it's 50 years as we as we just heard and uh it's ESP special because I I really enjoy the uh the title that you're honoring our past and forging our future uh it's a perfect fit for our clinicians right now in dun Eden um we have very we have a lot of new faces uh here because our older clinicians have retired and moved on to uh to other things in their lives and their careers so we have a lot of new faces we should always remember who paved the way uh before us and hopefully made things better for all of us uh in our future Generations then it's up to the Next Generation to take those lessons and to forge forward and to make changes and hopefully make it better for the next Generation repeating the cycle over and over and yes all the youngans that day is going to come before you know it uh never waste a minute make a difference every day and above all have fun this is the best job in the world and don't ever take it for granted thank you all for allowing me to speak really appreciate it and I hope you have a very productive and safe meeting well don't go anywhere because we're going to want to take a picture but I I'm sure we all have something and as your reward for listening to me oh we have I love it speaking of time going fast I will say Mark Mark and I met Mark when he was like 12 years old or something right Mark and time does go fast that's awesome that's fantastic thank you Mark and thank you to the team I know we'll all have something to say but I have to kind of jump on Vice mayor's comments because when we didn't have a Rescue Unit like we do now which we've worked on for years um I had an accident and I had a different Ambulance Service picking me up who wouldn't give me the good drugs and even though you needed them yeah ultimately it was one of our firefighters that got on board in that Ambulance with me and basically told that guy to jump in the lake to give me what I needed and ultimately they found out that I had fractured my back so I really it wasn't I wasn't drug searching um when you break a bone it's just painful it's beyond painful um so I have the same you know really heartfelt feelings for you guys but you have some comments commissioner Doro well I like that presentation I thought that was outstanding uh and I think you guys all appreciate that um I just want to make a quick comment um coming from the Marine Corps Nobody messes with the dock nobody and the dock is actually from another branch of the service but when the doc walks in he doesn't have to worry about who's got his back because we know to take care of the doc because you guys take care of us most important thing for me always has been and I've stated this time and time again it's safety and security and then we build everything else after that Safety and Security you play a major role in that and and the knowledge that we have you here because I'm you know we have I always say 37,000 residents here but we have other people coming into the town and the concern is taking care of them but that's what you do and so I cannot I don't attend to that I don't worry about that cuz I know you got their backs so we really appreciate it great group here I again I really liked what you said about how we have to continue on and and and grow and get ready for the next group that comes through and so always always you're appreciated every day just so you know that we may not say that to you but you have to know that and I mean that from the bottom of my heart and I think that goes for all the commissions for sure thank you thank you commissioner thank you mayor you I don't know what it says about a commission that has so many personal experiences or fire rescue but as I joined those ranks and uh watch it watch it commissioner well a little bicycle I did in separated shoulder and they I did not I don't know whether I didn't need a ride I think it's more of I refused a ride um but thank you for being there for me thank you for being there for my mother uh and it's just the interesting idea that we're also going through our citizen survey at the workshop and to hear from the residents uh part of it is some of them don't don't know how you operate and that's a wonderful problem to have because I think it's an indication that they don't need your services but for those that needed your service or they are aware that the response was wonderful so I think it's that's fabulous to have in our Public Safety and that's why you all exist uh the new the the new apparatus or vehicle IDE guess that helps us put on more safe um public events and idea that you can get to smaller places more more efficiently more quicker just adds to who we are and our identity as a community so thank you all for what you do I greatly appreciate it thank you commissioner yes ma'am so uh first and foremost I think it's really cool that you guys have embraced the challenge coins I think that's awesome um you know when I was uh when I was on active duty um on the submarine we would have we had an independent Duty Corman and um they're they're very special because like yourselves they are highly trained two they're thoroughly evaluated to make sure that they have the trust of the United States Navy and the submarine Force to serve as an independent Duty Corman and uh quite frankly uh to this day uh he probably was still the very best medical professional doctor I have ever had and so I know the commitment that you all and the education and everything that you've had to do to get to this point is significant I want to personally thank you for your commitment to duty your sacrifice because I know you all put in a lot of long hours and um I I think um as commissioner GA said you know those have not who have not had to use your service probably don't understand that but the ones that do are extremely grateful so I just want to personally thank you for everything you do I'm so proud of you guys thank you thank you all right come on up let's do a photo may can got it thank you thank you thank you guys thank you very much thank you [Applause] okay so I'm told our website's back up so you can watch a meeting on there that's good uh now we'll move on to National safe boting week and that is commissioner walker uh yes can I have uh flotilla Commander Gordon Thomas and flotilla 1110 come on up to the podium also I would like to invite esteemed boat club den and Boat Club Commodore and other den and boat club members thank you um this is obvious this is a this is an issue this is a this is a week that is very near and dear to my heart and um I I think especially during this time of the year here it is extremely important to make sure that we are uh communicating with the voting Enthusiast out there to sure that they're they're conducting safe voting practices and just using sound judgment and I appreciate everything you do to support that mission National safe boting week May 18 24 2024 whereas for over a 100 million Americans voting continues to be a popular recre ation activity from coast to coast and everywhere in between people are taking to the water and enjoying time together boating sailing paddling and fishing during National safe boating week the US Coast Guard the Coast Guard auxiliary federal state and local safe boating Partners encourage all boter to explore and enjoy America's beautiful Waters responsibly and whereas safe boating begins with preparation the Coast Guard estimates that human error accounts for most boating accidents and that life jackets can prevent nearly 83% of boating fatalities through basic boating safety procedures carrying life-saving emergency distress and communication equipment wearing life jackets attending safe boating courses participating in free boat safety checks and staying sober when navigating we can help ensure boers on America's Coastal Inland and offshore Waters stay safe throughout the season and whereas National safe boating week is observed to bring attention to important life-saving tips for recreational boers so that they can have a safer more fun experience out on the water throughout the year and whereas on average 650 people die each year in boating related accidents in the US and 75% of these are fatalities caused by drowning and whereas in fiscal year 2022 the Department of Public safety's boating safety section responded to total of 38 distressed vessels one capsized vessel four overdue swimmers fishermen divers and two stranded swimmers and three near drowning cases with one drowning case resulting in death and whereas the vast majority of these accidents are caused by human error or poor judgment not by the boat equipment or environmental factors and whereas a significant number of boers who lose lose their lives by Drowning each year would be alive today had they worn their life jackets now therefore I Robert James Walker by virtue of the authority vested in Me by the mayor of the city of denan Florida and on behalf of the entire city commission do hereby support the goals of the safe boating campaign and Proclaim May 18th to May 24th 2024 as National safe boting week and the start of the year round effort to wear a life jacket while boating and promote safe boating thank you very [Applause] much I'd like to just take a moment we appreciate uh what you do to make the national safe boting week uh known to the public taking the time out to make people aware of that especially the city of dun Ed and uh as you know that's the main thing that we have the thrust of the coast God auxiliary is boat safety and trying to save lives and in regard to that I would like to offer to you u a little booklet it's a book about a a gentleman coasty gentleman in the war at the GU canal in the Solomon Islands who put his life before uh his his his member his group of uh Coast gods uh facility that uh uh cost him his life in the end I'd like to present that to the mayor and we also have we have a challenge coin I'd also like to present to her as well a thank you thank you so much oh thank you sir thank you for your service you guys want to come up for a picture got it thank you thank you gentlemen thank you for your thank you very hey good to see you again okay now we have water safety month 2024 commissioner TGA well I see the I see our Coast Guard is leaving uh but they're very supportive of this we have Alicia coming up with the hey did I see Vince walk in here yes hey Vince come on up come on up there so I want to be reminded that I'm going to be reading a water safety month for 2024 but Alicia will tell you that it's water safety year 2024 and uh and I want to remind you that there's a couple words that that I think are really important in here uh and and one of them most certainly is uh not only the word safety um but it's it's the fact that we pay attention to this all of us all the time we are a coastal city uh we got 37 miles of Coastline we got 15 Islands out there we got we got pocket parks that are located on the water uh this is really serious and really important for us so without any further Ado if I may whereas the city of den Eden is committed to ensuring the safety of all residents and visitors to our great City and whereas residents and tourists alike enjoy our City's natural water resources and manmade man-made recreational water facilities and whereas swimming and Aquatic related activities play a vital role in good physical and mental health and enhance the quality of life for all residents and visitors and whereas the Center for Disease Control and prevention reports that annually there are an estimated 4,000 fatal unintentional drownings including boating related drowning averaging 11 drowning deaths per day and 8,000 non-fatal drownings averaging 22 non-fatal drownings per day and whereas more children ages 1- 4 die from drowning than any other cause of death except for birth defects for children ages 1- 14 drowning is the second leading cause of unintentional injury death after motor vehicle crashes and whereas comprehensive water safety education is essential for everyone including children parents and caregivers in order to be aware of water safety rules and programs to help prevent drownings and recreational water related injuries and whereas basic water safety tips include always having adult supervision of children providing children swimming lessons at a young age installing barriers when a child or vulnerable adult has uninterrupted access to a body of water and everyone especially caregivers learning CPR having safety equipment such as emergency flotation devices and whereas water safety month in dun Eden is an opportunity to promote water safety as well as provide education in our Coastal Community regarding prevention of water related injuries illnesses and deaths now therefore I John TGA by virtue of the authority invested in the mayor of the city of deden Florida and on behalf of the entire city commission to hereby Proclaim May 2024 as water safety month in Duneden and encourage all residents to take the pledge to be safe swimmers and make water safety a priority [Applause] oh my good so miss Stephanie is passing out some wonderful uh water safety stuff for you thank you mayor and City commission for allowing me to speak today regarding water safety month my name is Alicia castone I'm with the Parks and Recreation Department I am a program coordinator at the Highlander Pool it is true that now nationally our country has approximately 12,40 drownings per year of that you're right 33% are fatal and 67% are nonfatal what they don't tell us is the percentage of excuse me what percent of that 67% is a full recovery some of those non-fatal drownings resulted in traumatic brain injuries that percentage will live life differently due to their preventable injury so today I'm sharing with you our water Watcher bag B research has shown that most drownings occur at events or while on vacation especially here in Florida then someone asks where is our child and it follows with I thought you were watching them and the tragedy unfolds Before Their Eyes the water Watcher badge is a nationwide initiative through various organizations to educate our families on how to be safe in and around the water the water Watcher badge which I'm wearing today um it says as the designated water Watcher I promise to locate and learn how to use the pool safety equipment including ring buoys first aid kits and CPR masks take CPR if you can it's a life saving skill keep a constant watch on all children make notes on children who look tired those kids may not be able to make it to the side regularly scan the bottom of the pool avoid poolside chats and talking on the phone additionally wait till your time is done so you can have that beverage okay keep a phone for emergencies and know the address of your location a lot of the delay of EMS getting there is because they don't know the address and then find another water Watcher if if you have to leave or if you find yourself distracted okay families can pass the badge around to help share in the water Watcher role and hopefully hopefully prevent another drowning from occurring if you would like a water Watcher badge please stop by Highlander Pool and come get one they are free we also offer swim lessons to the public as well so thank you thank you guys guys want to come over for a pick let do a photo thank you guys okay who do I have here for today's paint deden purple day for Alzheimer's come on down I just wanted to say commissioner tor and I we have the colors the say the rest of the commission come on now yeah I'm not that coordinated right and sorry city clerk too so this side got the memo that's as long as you're wearing purple okay I'm going to go ahead and read the proclamation whereas as many as 7 million Americans are living with Alzheimer's disease and that number grows every 66 seconds and whereas Alzheimer's is the fifth leading cause of death in the United States and the only leading cause of death that cannot be cured or prevented and whereas there is a need to raise awareness about Alzheimer's disease and to honor all the caregivers who support and care for loved ones with Alzheimer's disease and whereas researchers are making great progress in developing ways to accurately diagnose and treat Alzheimer's disease and we need to accelerate the pace of that research and whereas the Alzheimer's Association is asking residents of denen to visit www.alz.org to learn more about Alzheimer's and to join the fight against this devastating Disease by decorating their storefronts and spaces with purple as well as to wear purple to raise awareness and raise money to support the continuing care support and research of the Alzheimer's Association now therefore I Julie Ward bolski by the virtue of the authority vested in me as mayor of the city of den Eden Florida and on behalf of the entire city commission do hereby Proclaim June 1st as paint the eeden purple day for Alzheimer's and encourage all citizens to support those Lives who have been affected by the disease to be a source of encouragement and support to the family members who are caring for those with Alzheimer's and to strengthen and increase our efforts to win the battle against Alzheimer's disease [Applause] please hello I'm Kelly striar I'm the VP of development for the Alzheimer's Association and we just wanted to take a minute I didn't prepare a speech or anything but to say thank you we're going on the sixth year of paint Denine and purple and almost $50,000 has been raised I believe um today so June 1st is a very exciting day for us it's our um you know our day that we'll celebrate that we'll get together with the community here in Den Eden and um you know just to bring it back to local numbers for a second 580,000 seniors are living with Alzheimer's here in the State of Florida and right here on the Florida Gulf Coast over 180,000 seniors have been diagnosed so that just is to bring it home why we're here why we work every day to find a cure and um you know the Alzheimer's Association is a 247 entity for you guys so if any body has questions or needs support or is just feeling lost um we do have a 800 number on the alz.org webbsite for you to call and we have people available 247 to to help you get through it so I want to pass it over to talk a little bit more about the event but again I just want to say thank you um for everything that you do thank you hi I'm Bren CUNY I I own Cy Brain Company with my husband and um I've been participating or we have been participating in painted e purple for 5 years I didn't know about it the first year otherwise I would have definitely participated um and we have a huge number of um residents and retailers and breweries and bars that are going to be participating this year so we really want to just paint Denine purple I do it because my grandma My Grandmother Had Alzheimer's my mother was recently diagnosed with Alzheimer's and my father and my brother are taking care of her in Wisconsin so it's really important to me and so I want you all to pay J need purple for people who have it we love you br um thank thank you very much I know that um uh Jim Schmidt's coming to talk with me sometime this week um and uh I know that the city is always involved and the Chamber will be involved and um we thank you for drawing attention to an important issue thank you thank you guys so [Applause] much love it thank you okay and finally older Americans month and I will turn that over to commissioner gal good morning uh if I could have Cindy Cole uh committee on Aging chair and Marie winter executive director on Area Agency on Aging of Pasco pelis and Brett Mony uh Health Center coordinator good morning good morning uh certainly not least in the number of proclamations this morning uh what an exciting time older Americans month 2024 whereas the city of Duneden includes a growing number of older Americans who contribute their time wisdom and experience to our community and whereas community benefit when people of all ages abilities and backgrounds have the opportunity to participate and live independently and whereas denen and the Area Agency on Aging of Pasco pelis recognize the need to create a community that offers the services and supports older adults need made to make choices about uh how they age and where as deden and the Area Agency on Aging of Pasco penelas can work to build an even better Community for our older residents by not limiting our thinking about aging exploring and combating stereotypes emphasizing the many positive aspects of Aging inspiring older adults to push past traditional boundaries and embracing our community's diversity now therefore I Jeff G by the virtue of the authority vested in Me by the mayor of the city of deden and on behalf of this entire city commission do you hereby proclaiming May 2024 to be older Americans month the city of den Eden and the Area Agency on Aging of Pasco panelas urge every resident to celebrate our older citizens help to create an inclusive society and accept the challenge of flexible thinking around aging thank you very [Applause] so I just I have something that I prepared but I just want to say after hearing the uh paint the town purple that that really touched my heart and it's so important and it's very connected to the theme this month for older Americans month um so the theme this year is powered by connection and connection is one of those things that is so important for seniors um because that social connection is what helps helps to keep the Mind sharp um and so they have said for people who have dementia and Alzheimer's that that social connection is so important and my dad has dementia and so I know for him that that really helps for him being able to connect with other people and that's what's keeping him thriving still at 85 years old so the theme powered by connection it focuses on the profound impact that meaningful connections have on the well-being and health of older adults a relationship underscored by the US surgeon general's advisory on the healing effects of social connection and Community which is even more important in this postco world it's not just about having someone to chat with it's about the transformative potential of community engagement and enhancing mental physical and emotional well-being by recognizing and nurturing the role that connectedness plays we can mitigate issues like loneliness ultimately promoting healthy Aging for more Americans the Hill Senior Activity Center and the committee on Aging are dedicated to providing Rich opportunities for older adults to engage and connect in the community providing activities and experiences for the Mind Body and Soul here to accept the proclamation of older Americans month is Cindy Cole chair of the denen city committee on agent and anarie winter executive director of the Area Agency on Aging P Pasco pelis all right pleas okay I just want to um thank you um Madam mayor and the Commissioners for for the senior Hall of Fame lunch and that the city of deden is going to be um putting on for us and we the committee on Aging have been working very hard for 4 months on this um May 29th luncheon and it is going to be very nice and we're going to give the awards but I I'm out there four days a week helping people that are in their 90s stay home because they all want to live in their own home and live with their treasures and some are starting to get dementia and everything but just getting them out taking them to Honeymoon Island just connecting them with the community it is very powerful and it really helps so many people and we're all older adults right now I hate to use the word senior but that's it but I want to thank you so much and so does the committee thank you thank you Cindy I'm Amry winter with the Area Agency on Aging last year we served six 9,000 seniors in pelis and Pasco counties with at least one service could be a h delivered meal uh transportation to life sustaining activities health and wellness programming and we couldn't do that without Partners in the community um we currently work with 72 different organizations to serve those seniors including programs for those living with dementia and Alzheimer's we love the city of Duneden we're going to be celebrating our 50th Anniversary at the hail Senior Center on Friday June 7th and we hope you can make it thank you so much for honoring our older Americans this month thank you guys come on our picture taken and then Vice here yes thank you three two got it thank you thank you guys thank you see you May 29th okay y all right now is the time for citizen input anyone wishing to come forward and speak to any item that is not already on the agenda please feel free to do so if it is on the agenda you'll have an opportunity to speak at that moment I can't imagine okay seeing or hearing none we'll move to the consent agenda which is the um approval of minutes for April 16th and April 18th um work session and regular meetings as long uh also board and committee appointments for the committee on Environmental Quality parks and rack and the US military veterans advisory committee can I have a motion to approve so moved second okay commissioner Walker and vice mayor frainy any public comment on any of those items seeing or hearing none all in favor signify by saying I I any opposed motion passes unanimously all right we'll move on to action items we have the Architectural Review Committee continuance discussion um Rebecca thank you mayor I'm just going to do one opening for all of the the three continuances and it's basically the reason that they are coming before you is resolution 22-22 St that committees will come before you every three years for continuance and so that's what you'll see for the next three items so that's all right so we have the Architectural Review Committee um any presentation that you have very quickly mayor um mayor vice mayor members of the commission George Kenny on behalf of the Community Development Department we are we have the pleasure of being the liaison to the architecture Review Committee uh as you probably have heard or no they're they're a great board comprised of some very hardworking and technically um smart folks so uh with that I'm going to turn it over to Tim nolles who's a member of the committee to talk to you a little bit about some of their accomplishments and some of their uh future thoughts and ideas welcome welcome hello mayor and commission um I'm Tim NES I'm currently the vice chair of the Architectural Review Committee and immediate past chair of the committee um just want to say thank you we our committee enjoys working for the city and volunteering our time and we feel that we're an integral part for the city in the development process of giving giving good feedback and suggestions to applicants that come before us uh for architectural Styles and compatibility within our city and we suggest that we continue our committee and still do good in the city of denen okay any questions I was just going to ask Tim are you one of the smart members of the architectural I hope so you are you are okay all right thank you appreciate it um anybody from the public wish to comment on this all right I'm going to come back to the commission can I have a motion to continue the Architectural Review commiss so moved second okay vice mayor frainy and commissioner Walker any final comments yeah I mean I you know when we started this it was you know was an experiment I didn't know how it would work um and um could have gone either way but boy it went way past any expectations I had it's a extremely valuable committee um I you know recently was at one the meetings and I think you guys were looking at the causeway uh development and um you know it's just it's a great it's a a great part of the process to really vet out with expertise suggestions to the developers and I think it just one more leg that helps it when it by the time it gets to the commission you know a lot of stuff has been vetted out so I think the committee is doing a great job and I absolutely think it's a core piece of how we do our development now so yeah I absolutely am 100% for continuing anybody else yeah I just uh I want to Echo what the vice mayor said and there's there's another part of this too I think that's important and probably not uh not real visible but um the work that you do in conjunction with the historical preservation advisory committee in terms of Architectural Review is a integral and important part of that process because obviously um you know to make sure that we preserve the the historical component of our community um I I think the feedback from the archetectural Review Committee is is an absolute imperative and so anyway I just want to thank you and my vote wholeheartedly to continue your committee anybody else just to Echo the comments on the DI thank you mayor yes I I appreciate the work not only because of the review that you're doing but to constant building up i' I've watched you do that of of what is I'm half kidding but what is architecture and and and what what what's interesting to us and what do we want and what part of it is necessary for us to have a consideration for it and I think that's very complicated um and and very endearing to watch it happen so that I I'm not in that field and and I really appreciate having you guys uh understand that and know it and discuss it uh and have open discussions about it it so uh thank you very much for your service and for each one of your members thanks okay all in favor signify by saying I I I opposed motion passes unanimously thank you gentleman all right we have the hammock advisory committee continuance discussion welcome first I want to thank you for the privilege of serving on this committee it's a truly an honor for me some of the things that we've worked in the past few years uh was the establishment of some fire brakes on the south end of the park along the church property and along the school property that was uh with the help of the Florida Forest Service uh I think they spent a couple weeks in there and they also uh did some Forest mulching on 2.7 Acres along the uh Kettle trailer that significantly improved that area uh we recommended uh that in the future that uh we either City could either lease or purchase some Forest mulching equipment that could be used in both parks in the future to help it uh we also dedicated an area near the butterfly for the autobound society to use uh to establish a sort of a bird center the planted uh trees and Shrubbery that attracts birds so it' be a nice future area for people to see uh the also the the big issue that we had was the hiring of two horiculture specialists in the park which uh over the last 6 months has improved the park beyond my West imagination money well spent I think in my own opinion uh they've done more work than we ever did with third party people in the past uh one of other things we did is we uh restored and added additional markers in the park uh every quarter we take pictures of uh along these things and there's now 18 markers we take 36 photos and it's a really a long-term project so someone can look uh at a 10 years of the changes in the Parks uh we also were involved with the progam in completion of the fern Trail which is uh one of the most popular places in the park now some of the things that we're looking forward doing is uh we're trying to improve the signage in the park a lot of it's old uh we're discussing using QR codes and kiosks that are adaptive so that we can change them so we're presenting more and new information as it goes along and we're working with friends of hammock on that project uh we're going to continue to monitor the progress of the invasive uh plants in the park uh we're going to monitor uh the progress of preventing growth of unwanted Trails we uh especially at the North End of the park uh bikers and pedestrians have made their own Trails through the park and it it destroys habitat and it it makes it messy a lot of us a lot of Volunteers in the park Personnel are blocking those uh right now we're you know if you see a branch you block it and it's working pretty well I'm pretty happy with that uh we are also um in favor of more trail closures due to wildlife habitat uh like young owls on firm Trail uh last year we had a uh a nest of hummingbirds that we wanted to protect and we want to continue that that project uh let's see here we want to continue discussion on ebikes in the park uh one of the suggestions we've had was to uh close some of the trails to bikes especially ones that have blind alleys uh there's several Corners in the park on Trails where if if at the timing was right and an E Bike was there someone could be hurt so we're considering some of the trails to be closed to bikes but also establishing bike trails within the park so that bikers could see that they can run along Skinner and Grand Trails on their own but other Trails would be close to them this is an ongoing project that we want to work on more this year thank you thank you any questions I had one question sure um so uh how much joint stuff do you do with the friends is there a lot of joint projects or do you guys pretta independently or how's that work um that's a good question um when I first started the friends and hammock advisory met at the same time so and BAS basically the the memberships were both practically the same and it was it got to be like two or three hour meetings and we would just rehash the same material so then we decided to separate okay and that's worked out really well because we don't discuss the same things but we do uh Carrie O'Brien the president she attends our meetings and she provides feedback on what they're doing and what we're doing and uh we hope to establish a a partnership there it works well yeah good thank you anybody else anybody from the public wish to come forward and speak to this item I just have sure one I so I just want to thank Robert Spangler as our chair um Laney sheets are staff liaison and as he said he's not only um the chair of the committee but he is a phenomenal volunteer he is the one that's been doing all the photo documentation for us over the last number of years that will really help us in the long run in the management of the park so I just want to thank him for his service oh thank you very much okay can I have a motion and a second to continue this committee so moved second okay commissioner TGA and commissioner Gaal any final comments yes I I would I'd like to make a comment if I may um a great question here about how you work together and and I've been at the meetings when they were all together and I've been at the meetings when they've been when they've been separated and and most recently a comment made by the president of the other organization there's two hammock organizations now was how can we help you or how can we support you or what would you like for us to do and I thought that was really great we all love the hammock uh there's lots of things to do in the city uh and sometimes we don't pay enough attention to each one of those details but you guys sure do so thank you yeah I always consider our committee the eyes for the city anybody else well Jeff you're going to you're second so I didn't want to jump over you well thank you uh certainly hammock is personal to me and so thank you Robert for uh your service I think between the advisory committee and the friends on the hammock I think it really sets a tone throughout the county and throughout the state on how residents can be involved and engaged and and protect our our green spaces and our wildlife and so thank you for your focus and thank you for what you do so be the hammock is a treasure and and uh greatly appreciate the the caretaking that you have provided um those those eyes on the park are are essential so thank you for that yeah I'd Echo everything and I just think like uh when you love something the more eyes and ears you have on that something the better it is um you can nurture it take care of it and uh so appreciate all that you do and and I love the answer about how you guys are coordinating I think that's awesome and uh of course glattus Douglas preserve I think we have that you know that vision of what that can be because it's so you know such so much passion with hammock so thank you thanks Robert I agree with everything that's been said all right um all in favor signify by saying I I I any opposed motion has passed unanimously thank you and then finally we move on to the US military veterans advisory commit committee welcome good morning mayor vice mayor City commissioners Vince gizy Parks and Recreation director um I'd like to introduce now is Rob Coen who is our the newest chair was elected and started uh chairing the committee in January took over from father Bob who was the previous chair who semi retired still very active in our veteran community uh Rob has done quite a bit for um bringing visibility and attention and recognition to our veterans uh such as what he's done for our Veteran Day program just bringing it uh to another another level Memorial Day uh just recently we did a brick program um at uh Purple Heart Park uh just recognition overall to into our community uh he's he's taken a lot of the initiatives from father Bob and he's creating action plans with the committee to put them in motion so um with that I will let good morning if I could just do something on a personal note um you know you've been thanking all these people today I didn't need any additional information to make me be prouder or more in love with living in dun Eden than I already do but watching the people that you celebrated and recognized today you know who were all part of the incredible fabric of our town makes me even prouder so thank you for recognizing those people and and understanding how important just the citizens of this town are to our community uh the donen military veterans advisory committee was designed initially and still serves as the voice of the veterans community here in town we are comprised of members of every one of the major branches of the military most of you have uh been to at least one if not several of our meetings and you see what we do but let me review uh some of the things that we have done over the last just P last P 12 months again as Vince mentioned uh just last week we dedicated a brick uh of one of our uh combat wounded veterans from the Vietnam War at the Hearts Park just last month we proudly raised the Mia P flag here in front of City Hall something that again we encouraged we came here you heard us and responded to it and thank you so much for that um we have and we are be planning a presentation here for the renaming of Sterling Park not necessarily the repurposing of the park but certainly making a suggest a strong suggestion for the renaming of the park but again that'll be something for a future presentation we have collaborated with a group called The Operation warrior hope for zero suicide where they are planning training of our waiters and bartenders and our local restaurants to help them recognize danger signs of people sitting at the bar and sitting at the table learning teaching them how to engage our veterans in need uh we had a presentation of the Eden Director of Human Resources with the purposes of clarifying the hiring practices for our veterans here in town we had a presentation from Big Brothers and Big Sisters of Tampa Bay where we are now be going to be planning a program bringing veterans together along with children in need uh we one of our proudest programs is our considering program of veterans owned and Veterans friendly businesses um and we are um hoping to soon make a presentation where we'll be um hoping to purchase and install a falling Soldier Monument right there at the crossroads of penis Trail and Main Street last year as Vince mentioned we had ourselves some remarkable um uh events here in town we've already had two public Veterans Day ceremonies we had a great Memorial Day ceremony last year we recognized the 50th anniversary of the end of the Vietnam War and we proudly renamed the section of Alt 19 the Zachary sh Memorial Highway I think the latter shows that there is an appetite for patriotic events and it is all of our responsibilities our committee as well as the commission um to live up the symbolic message that that beautiful Arch sends to our Community I personally and I'm sure I speak for my Committee in thanking this commission and Jennifer um uh for everything you do you have been so responsive and so supportive of our committee special sh I don't know is Lanny still here yeah Lanny is the person that kind of keeps me on track and keeps me uh during the meetings even faintly reminiscent of Rob Rules of Order and Vince and Jory and Danielle um I just can't give a louder shout out to the parks of recreation here in town because if it wasn't for parks of recreation um uh none of our events would be as special as they are and again the one comment that I had made uh at purple hearts last week is that I think Jory said there are 60 some OD major events a year that Parks and Recreation is involved in um and you would think that any one of those events would just be another day at the office but anytime the parks and wreck gets involved in a veterans event it becomes personal and you can see that they hearted is it it's not just them punching a a Time clock so thank you to all for your support we look forward to doing bigger and better things in the coming year thank you okay any questions questions anybody from the public wish to come forward and speak okay can I have a motion and a second mov second commissioner Walker and commissioner torga okay any final comments uh yes ma'am thank you um so having been uh involved in attending the military advisory veterans committee um I have to say uh the the work that father Bob did uh was was is am was outstanding but Rob you have definitely in Vince's words taken this to the next level with regards to the consolidation the the relationship building amongst our veterans in the community and we have a lot of veterans and I fully Embrace and applaud the efforts to bring the events that you have Veterans Day celebration Memorial Day um you know to front and center to allow the community to to to focus on on the veterans the veterans here in denan and I also have seen a significant uptick with regards to the programs that you guys have launched uh in terms of the the engagement with our returning veterans uh you know I I just think you are doing amazing work so um yeah continue and sign fully fully on board thank you commissioner Toro thank you mayor um I want to thank the entire committee that just have done a fantastic job they such committed people um to the veterans and and fundamentally this was the purpose of of the meeting initially and that was to ensure that no matter what situation was involved in the city that we had access to a veterans organization that was supporting the veterans and as mentioned uh by several folks here already today we have a large number of veterans uh included within the city and I think it's I think it's just a a really golden spot for a city like deden that we took advantage of that and we took the opportunity to make sure that they had their that kind of a representation some of the things that have been worked on have have included you know getting perhaps discounts or just awareness at organizations within the city uh for veterans and and that's that's been particularly uh I think valuable and noticeable uh by the veterans uh Vince Vince's has been with the committee since it started uh and he made sure that that stayed on on on focus and continues to stay on Focus so um being a veteran um uh being a a Vietnam veteran uh having served in a conflict um we we never know you never know when you're looking at folks um or veterans where where they where they are or where they feel but we just experienced that last week when when we did the brick when the brick was done by a particular organization that Rob was involved in specifically um and and a lot of other folks were there and and you got to hear just a little bit I'm one of those that was with him uh in indirectly and to have him come and talk to me just about a little bit I asked nothing I just listen um particularly particularly uh uh of an interest to me to make sure that we have an organization like that and that kind of a support so thanks for the entire committee and and making sure that the committee has continued on as an ongoing organization and of course I'm fully in support of the continuation of that thank you thank you vice mayor anything um sure of course um you know I've been able to attend some of the meetings um and uh it's a great it's a great board very engaged very you know very active and of course I i' reiterate I think what commissioner Walker said you know father Bob is awesome we all know that but again Rob you know you you bring to the table raise the bar and um and so when I think about stuff like I love the better known friendly and better friendly business initiative that you guys are doing I think that's so in line with the kind of thing that makes sense for the committee to do um when I when I look at you personally and then you know you being the head of the committee and your involvement in the different veteran agencies I mean you know I think you personally have done a lot to you know unify and bring people together you know the the November 11th day the last two veterans days have been amazing and and a lot of lot of heart in them lot of heart how they're doing done the Vietnam one was exceptional for I think it's the 50th anniversary and um but I think that um you know the committee we're we're a proud veteran City and again it just you know what you love you you water you you know you water the flowers and you keep the seeds going so um thanks for all you do and thanks to the committee because it's a great committee thank you U thank you mayor uh certainly in content and passion and emotion I I I can't uh speak any better than commissioner Walker did on on what you all do and so just thank you Rob you've done an amazing job appreciate it thank you ditto ditto and ditto thank you for your big efforts okay um all in favor signify by saying I I any opposed motion passes unanimously thanks for thank you thanks F all right we now have the award um of piggybacking agreement with the 2024 storm water pipelining project in the amount of not to exceed $840,000 Mary good morning mayor vice mayor commissioner staff Mary sheet city engineer I'm here to present the award of the piggybacking agreement for the 24 fiscal year 24 storm Water pipelining Project to Vortex services for an amount not to exceed $840,000 the Public Services Division budgets for rehabilitation of various storm water pipes by cured in place pipelining CIP on an annual basis and the priority is given for inspection and the age of the pipes and the locations of the pipes throughout the city Vortex Services of Houston has proposed to perform the CIP lining of approximately 2,54 linear feet of varying pipe sizes between 18 to 48 in for an amount not to exceed $840,000 this technology will provide Decades of additional service to the existing storm sewer pipes continual renewal and replacement of this essential infrastructure is is required to avoid failures Vortex services has performed this type of work for the city in deden successfully in the past denon's City attorney has reviewed the agreement and it has been approved as to form as such staff hereby recommends the commission's approval of the piggybacking agreement with Vortex LCC of Houston Texas under the same terms and conditions as the agreement with Tallahassee and for the amount of $840,000 for the fiscal year 24 Warm Water pipelining Project as detailed here in any questions I do uhhuh thank you for the presentation um you said 2,000 ft plus 2,000 plus feet um just just for the purposes of I've been I've been asked a few questions about this just recently I have not been asked very many questions about this in the past other than to say it's better to do the relining um then then to tear the whole thing up um so let me just ask two two real quick questions we we're doing 2,000 fet now about how many feet do we have Sue do you know how many I've asked this before so somebody gave me an answer before in a total storm water system I'm not I don't have that information right now but I can get it for you no it's it's fine it's huge it is it's a it's a big number and and to replace so second question to replace this as opposed to do the relining if this costs the amount of money you reported what would it cost to replace it rough estimate it's probably going to be about four or five times because you have not just the replacement of the pipe but you have the damage to the ride of way that and the sod and all the things that need to be replaced the toll tear up the whole shut down of the area all of those issues so um I I know we intend upon doing this wherever we can obviously that makes that makes total sense um when we do this if you if last question if we put a if we put a whole new a whole new pipe in there what's the difference in in the length of time you would that it might that it might last if it were new as opposed to when when it's reigned or what is the difference according to technology it's about the same because the the lining will actually sometimes be more preventative because it's a polymer that doesn't allow the the normal leakage that you would get with either a metal or a concrete pipe thank you so I ask those questions because as I look at this it's big big numbers and people say to me whoa that's a lot of lot of money and it is but this is the best solution that i' I've heard and I've asked before for resolving some of these issues and when when you do the inspections uh well we need to fix it so there we go big money talk to the city manager about that again in detail so thank you thank you for the answers anybody else questions okay um anybody from the public wish to speak to this item all right can I have a motion a second to approve second okay I mayor fry commissioner Walker vice mayor yeah I mean I I'll just say I mean obviously you know when it comes to our infrastructure and the basics of why we're here as a government you know we need to keep these things up and this is as commissioner T made some comments with the questions I mean it's the most coste effective lasting way to do that and um so I commend staff for you know looking at these ways that we can do it in a reliable but you know much more even though it's a lot of money um in the big picture it's you know a lot less than it would be so thank you okay uh commissioner Walker yes ma'am thank you um yes so storm water and aging infrastructure you know two arguably the the biggest issues that we have um and just speaking from personal experience uh you know back uh let's just say the 19 1940s 1950s you know the the material of choice was galvanized steel and the problem with that is is that it ages it becomes very brittle and subsequently very prone to leakage we had this exact problem at our home and when faced with uh with the actual pipe replacement Vice the relining it was a significant cost savings and it's you it it works so so um I I want to just provide that for for public awareness this is an absolute essential it is a big number but it's it's in the budget and uh we we we need to do this so thank you commissioner well thank you mayor and I believe that uh Paul stanic it was if we keep doing what we're doing it would take 80 years to replace everything so if uh commissioner if you want to kind of take that as a measurement on the the length of pipe we have that's that's an indication and I've been here since okay so now we're up to 74 years I guess left um oh and and that's true well and and I I like the follow-up question to uh his thoughts on the idea how long does the lining last and if it's basically new pipe that we're putting in that's just a amazing that you can and then because we're also seedling up not yet old and worn out it's actually even extending the life beyond just the normal use of a pipe it's wonderful I know that climate change sea level rise is certainly on on the minds of all of our residents right now and it was even reflected in our survey and this goes to that I won't pose it as a question but I'm going to make a statement and if I'm wrong I'll ask you all to correct me that right this will also help with uh some of our sea level and Rain one-off sea being into our our stormm water system to hopefully help protect some of our storm water infrastructure as well um so but that's I think it's a wonderful project so thank you commissioner anything thank you mayor i' I've said said what I had to say all right um anybody from the public wish to speak to this item I probably already did that all right all in favor signify by saying I I any opposed motion passes unanimously thank you all right now we have the award of bid 24-1 1263 for wastewater treatment plant outfall pipe cured in place pipe relining yada yada yada $689,000 and change welcome mayor commission St my name is manager we can't hear you there you go oh thank [Applause] you good morning mayor vice mayor Commissioners and staff uh my name is Alex Gonzalez I am the project manager I'm joining here today with Brian anonin the Wastewater Plant superintendent and we're here to present the uh recommendation of award for bid 24 1263 the wastewater treatment plant outfall pipe cured in place reing project uh just like Mary's project this uses CIP technology to uh coat a existing pipe uh this is a 36in ductal iron pipe that goes from our Wastewater Plant uh directly west um and then goes and outfalls into the St Joseph sound it has been there for 34 years already it is a critical piece of infrastructure and instead of replacing the pipe which is you can imagine how difficult that would be because it's couple th000 ft long we are going to utilize the CIP technology to realign and coat the pipe so it can provide another 30 years of lifespan the project is uh located approximately at Victoria Drive and Lee Street right there next to Bayshore Boulevard just uh just to the west of Weaver Park uh we have uh we have already done the competitive bid process and we found that the lowest responsive and responsible bidder was in form Inu form Technologies LLC out of Tampa Florida and we recommend to uh approve the bid of uh $689,900 sense okay any questions yes I have I have a question um we we we all talk up here outfall etc etc would you just explain uh what this pipe is actually doing yes so oh for it good morning uh yes this uh 36inch alol pipe any water coming from the wastewater treatment plant is not going into the reclaim system storage tanks uh is going is being discharged out into the ocean so this 36in pipe carries all decoronated effent water out to the ocean we need to maintain this pipe for for future mayor may make a comment sure um and so I have parked real near this outfall for a number of years uh anchoring out on a on on a boat um and so I'm you know I've always laughed about how people talk about what this outfall really is is and it really is exactly what you just said and so we put that out there there are going to be questions in the future they talked to the city manager about this from the the the State of Florida what what their requirements are going to be for this but but this is a this is something that has to be done it's the correct way to do this it's expensive but to do anything other than that would be incredibly expensive so thank you thank you for that that update anybody else uh just quick question I noticed that there was only one bidder on this um was there a reason there weren't more U we went through our normal procurement processes um it is a very challenging and out of thee boox type project um definitely not something that uh a a normal or not it's definitely not a normal project it's challenging um and uh we we did do some extra um advertising to try to get all the local companies but um but at the end of the day it is a um out of thebox project and we are and we are have done our due diligence and we feel that ins form Technologies is a good company and they could perform the work okay thank you y thank you uh this is an expensive project um so my question is is this the first time that the city of D has done this or is this an original pipe that we have out there yes this is the original pipe it was installed in 1990 and it has literally not been touched in 34 years and in in how long in 34 years it's been in 1990 1990 okay uh so I won't ask what we did before before that then if this is the original pip maybe I don't want to know uh but my question is for the cost of this and I know there are initiatives uh coming from the governor's office to keep us from discharging and so how does that play into the cost of this how long do you think before we'll not be able to do this and is it worth the cost of doing this given those initiatives Senate Bill 64 uh January 1st 2032 the city of dunan is supposed to stop discharging to the ocean outfall by that mandate but we still have to maintain a wet weather discharge because during Hurricane event storm events you have so much water we don't have enough tankage to store all that water and so you have to maintain this outall discharge pipe okay man any additional I concur with what Brian just said Al although coming up to say I I I wonder if you could say that faster if we asked him to um yeah but but thank thank you for that there's a concern so what you're saying is that yes by 2032 we're no longer going to be able to do that but uh the pipe is in such condition that I so this is still mandatory given that it's going to have a short life yes cuz during storm events you have massive amounts of flow coming into the sewer plant that we have to put somewhere so we can't put in the reclaim tanks we have to go out discharge out to the ocean okay excuse me for the interruption Nan Bennett director of utilities and Engineering in 2032 we will no longer no longer will be able to routinely discharge to the ocean outfall we are allowed to continue to have a wet weather discharge and during severe weather events we get a lot coming at the wastewater treatment plant as you know it comes in and it has to go out there's only so many places so we will maintain this in perpetuity as a wet weather discharge okay very good thank you very much all right those are my questions any other questions anybody from the public okay can I have a motion and a second to approve so moved second okay commissioner Tor and vice May fry any final comments beat me but okay you're on this side so I he yeah thank you Nan for bringing that out that this is going to be kept in in fuity even though even though we know the the what the rules are for 32 but but it'll still be used so it's not like it's going to be closed down and I think that's really important uh for everyone to know that thank you for bring I think it stands I mean the State of Florida has issued us a $400,000 Grant issued through the department of Environmental Protection they understand that they have rules that the routine normal way of doing business will change but there's still the reality of what comes in has to go out thank you for thank you for bringing that up in all cases it's not get graphic so many levels yeah no I mean I again I think this is the most costeffective way to deal with something we need for our system I I will say commissioner gal that you know when we built the Wastewater and water plants of the 1990s it was all a crisis so we can only guess what was going on because it was a crisis and we never want to be back in a crisis mode and this is definitely the most coste effective way to deal with this issue and so I fully support it anybody else comments no okay all in favor signify by saying I any opposed motion passes unanimously all right so then we have the proposed agenda for June 4th anybody have any questions or suggestions or changes um mayor I do need to add one item um for the um consent item Panels County School Board and City dun Eden piping and drumming funding agreement Vince has asked me to add that to the um June 4th uh consent agenda okay anybody have anything else okay um with that addition can I have a motion to approve so move second second commissioner G and commissioner torga all in favor signify by saying I I I any opposed motion passes unanimously in addition we have the proposed agenda for June 6th any changes there okay can I have a motion to what so moved okay I just getting vice mayor frainy and is there a second second commissioner gal all in favor signify by saying I I any opposed motion passes unanimously we'll move on to a break so moved second [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] n [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] he [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] a [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] oh [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] w [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] we will now move towards our Marina master plan presentation gentlemen ladies with us this morning as well as J and casy from present our first initial conversations with you foring the master plan this plan for the public long L is your microphone on like oh no so now it is I'll start over if you'd like thank you um so the marina master plan is a long range plan for our Marina and the associated public facilities so we understand that the marina is more than just the Basin itself it's more than just the boats and the slips uh it encompasses a greater area of our downtown that includes Edgewater Park the fishing pair our various sailing groups and much much more it's a fantastic Community Asset and it's loved by the entire Community whether they are a Boer or not uh we hear regularly that it's one of the favorite parts of our our city the master plan um will help us determine the best strategy that uh we can put in place for the repairs and Replacements of the various infrastructure throughout the marina we do understand that it is an aging facility and uh there are improvements and repairs that and Replacements that need to be made in the more immediate future and some more long range so we wanted to develop a master plan that makes sure that we put those amenities back in a place that is compatible for the future Generations in December uh the city commission uh selected kimley horn to guide us through this process and we're very excited to be working with both James and Casey they bring together a great marriage of different expertise um James specializing in the more Upland facilities and Casey having a fantastic depth of knowledge in Marine infrastructure uh we had our kickoff meeting with them on February 1st but we did a whole slew of data dump to them prior to that uh so they have a lot of documents going back uh through generations uh from the city so they could really understand who we are and where we came from uh they will be presenting to you uh where we've been through this process over the last few months it's been a fast and furious process uh with a lot of great feedback um from both an online survey meetings with stakeholders um structural uh assessments and then they'll go through some replacement priorities and options that we have going forward uh so at this point I will turn it over to James thank you Laney can you hear me okay is that good sorry um so for our agenda this morning um we've got it on the screen here uh we'll have a brief overview of the online survey results that we um conducted the online survey for the community got a lot of really good responses with that um we'll do a review of our stakeholder meeting and some of the recommendations and comments that we heard from stakeholders uh Casey's going to talk about the structural assessment and replacement priority based on being out on site uh Casey and one of our other senior struct Engineers reviewed the docks and the Harbor Master building and the seaw wall and have a lot of uh photographs and and some recommendations based on that site visit and then Casey's going to walk us through some slip layout options U looking at sizes for slips as well as dock types and then I'll um come back and discuss some Upland master plan options and then we'll talk about Marina expansion phasing options and then next steps so as far as where we are in the process I'd like to kind of show the timeline here here um we've again we've had our online survey and stakeholder input we've based on that information we've been kind of analyzing and synthesizing the feedback that we've received and developing master plan concepts for both the slip layout within the marina Basin as well as the Upland portion and so that's what we presented to the public on April 30th and that's what we'll be presenting um to you this morning as well um the the steps and the timeline that you see here indicates that there's really a lot of um opportunities still to provide feedback for us to come up with options based on what we hear this morning and refine those options and then present those ultimately for continued feedback and ultimately approval um by yourselves the online survey was live from February 29th to March 18th and we had over a thousand uh respondents which I think was a very good response rate for Community this size um based on the questions that we had um 88% of the respondents were dun Eden residents roughly the 12% that were not most of those seem to be from the clear water in Palm Harbor area but a very high response rate for Duneden residents from an age grouping standpoint um we had about 38% were in the 40 to 59 year range and about 50% of the respondents were 60 to 79 so about 90% from 40 to roughly 80 years old um in terms of the responses we asked people we tried to understand who was uh slip renters either former current or future versus just um uh Marina visitors about 43% were either current current former or potential slip renter at the marina and then of those that were slip renters um or are current slip renters uh 45% were in the 25t slip area um about 32% were in the 30 to 34t and and 15% in the 35 to 45t uh slip categories as far as liveaboards um 6% were yes and 94% were no so the vast majority in that case was a uh no in terms of Li Li boards and then 74% of the respondents were power boo users we ask people to rate their satisfaction um of the current facilities um kind of on a scale of 1 to five so the top three um responses there were very satisfied with some of the infrastructure as it relates to water connections uh Shore power pedestals and then Fairway navigation and then you can see as you get down towards the bottom parking and slip renter restroom facilities ranked a little bit lower on that list top three priorities as far as future Marine improvements um based on the responses that we got um High uh preference for converting to floating docks um improved slip rent or permit parking I think based on some of the comments we got that would be um related to both proximity as well as um available numbers of permit parking slips uh for vehicular parking and then also expanded concession and amenity opportunities as far as how often people visit or use the marina um for the amenities listed below um the top kind of categories were V visiting the pier and the Marina for viewing for sunsets um coming to the park for looking at the green space on the west side of the marina out on the peninsula where the boat club is and then also Edgewater Park in the playground as far as ratings for the following components again on a scale of 1 to five um pretty high ratings around four for both Edgewater Park as well as the municipal pier and then fairly high ratings for some of the infrastructure again as far as the restrooms and then the day docks and the boat ramp usage um were kind of on the on the average at about 2 and a half out of five 30% of the respondents use the boat ramp 70% uh did not and again were just there for other activities as far as um how the boat ramp users rate the the facilities there uh boat ramp size quantity of boat ramp parking and flow of traffic was all kind of middle of the road around a two out of five the uh Marina Basin does have a pump out facility for those that have um heads on on their vessels um and of those about 8% use those pump out facilities and of those that use the pump out facilities um ease of use as well as ease of access in terms of the location was just above average at about three out of five as far as top three items that people like about the marina area again we heard a lot of people that come for view of the water view of sunsets um access to water whether it's actual getting out on your boat or just being kind of present and and being at the waterfront um a lot of people uh just coming for the pier either activities on the pier or for the fishing pier itself and then special events Green Space observing the boats and playground ranked a little bit lower as far as the top three most pressing issues for the marina area um available parking and again we heard that from both I think permitted Marina parking slip users as well as public who wants to come and sometimes there's a bit of competition for those parking spaces um Coastal resiliency was a was a pressing pressing issue as well as pedestrian safety and that seemed to be centered a lot around the um area between um the sidewalk AB budding the Marina and the drive a and and where the Old Bay Restaurant is and where you have a lot lot of those pedestrian Crossing areas um so in addition to the online survey we did hold a stake CER meeting on or a series of meetings on February 19th we met with the windlasses and the Sailing Association we met with members from the deden boat club the CRA Economic Development um and the deputy fire chief we met with commercial slip renters boat ramp users boat slip users as well as non-bo slip users um Marina advisory committee and the parks and rec advisory committee so I think a really good cross-section of people that represent the community but also use the f facilities on a fairly uh regular basis and So based on a lot of the feedback that we heard we've kind of distilled um the the comments and and the discussion into some key points here um So based on that floating docks we heard would be maybe an ideal consideration um there's concerns about the existing day docs or the transient docks and those concerns seem to center around accessibility to those as well as the wind and wave exposure um that area is very exposed to the northwest winds and so that can make docking at those day docks a challenge U during um heavy wind conditions making sure that we maintain boat and parade access to both um viewers on the Upland as well as boats coming into that main Fairway giving them the proper um areas to turn around and maneuver um in making sure that we're conscious of The Pedestrian connectivity to downtown as well as pedestrian safety within the marina and Edgewater Park parking as I mentioned before both from the flip renter standpoint as well as visitors maintaining access to the peninsula for vehicle vehicles um golf carts as well as pedestrians and then potential expansion of the boat ramp we heard again about opportunities for wave braks from the Northwest winds around the day dock area around the fishing pier um maintaining easy access to the pump out providing enhanced security either through cameras or enhanced camera systems but then also secure access um to the slips that are on the south and the West Wall where currently there's no fence or or barrier um that separates those slips uh from the general public um heard a lot of discussion about just maintaining the existing character of the marina recognizing that this is a very special place to the residents and to the marina users and we whatever we do we want to be respectful of of that character understanding traffic congestion at the boat ramp and and finding opportunities to try to alleviate that and then um creating opportunities for swings benches and park amenities along the Waterfront like you see you have some of that on the existing uh Waterfront there on the eastern wall but finding opportunities to kind of enhance those types of um enhancements so with that Casey is going to walk us through the structural assessment and some of the priorities that um he did based on his review and then we'll turn it back over to master plan options after he's done great thank you James um so the day after our stakeholder meetings I went and visited the site with another senior engineer uh to look through the each of the elements from the Harbor Master building all the way through all the docks the seaw walls this was a high level review underwater was not done as a result of there being some past underwater assessments that had very good information um but we were able to go at low tide and high tide to see the different variations as well um overall the Harbor Master building is in decent shape Associated to its age um but we did discover some some deficiencies that will need to be repaired in order to extend its life further into the future um followed by uh the fishing pier um having some aged um Timber and a lot of connections related to the the steel bolts and stuff that are just showing some signs of corrosion um but in the end um overall the facility is showing signs of age and there are significant um repairs that are needed to some um in the near future and we've narrowed it down to essentially you know focusing on the Harbor Master building and the fishing pier first Follow by um doc a then B and C um and not necessarily you know immediately all at the same time we would need to do them a phased approach to avoid impacts but um all the way down the line to the the South wall and the north wall sorry and the West wall and then the commercial docks and and these orders of priority were based upon the conditions that they were in that we saw but over all um the bolts some of the Timber were you know splitting and just needing to be replaced um nothing associated with safety but more associated with just age um you can see oh sorry um so then we uh further went on to look at a couple different doc types um for our overall master plan study and um just bringing these photos up here for visual you know the floating dock on the left um is basically attached and fixed to large pilings um that are set at in elevation and allows the docks to float up and down but also at a height to allow for storm surge and for the docks not to end up in your backyard um and then you have the fixed docks which we currently using now and these are set at a set elevation um as the tides go up and down the variability of access to your boat changes um whereas on the floating docks with them going up and down with the boat the accessibility stays the same um where's that button here we go so your current Mar Marina components um existing for 25 ft slips um are 8 ft for the main dock which is the primary dock that everybody walks on and then the fingers are the docks that are between the boats that you go to uh so your finger Pier widths um range between 18 and 24 in currently and the slip width for 25t slips are about 9 ft wide um what we're proposing based upon industry standards and also based upon you know some of the feedback from some of the stakeholder meetings is uh to keep the main dock the same at 8 ft uh but to increase or at least get up to a 24 in um finger Pier width instead of the narrower 18 and then to go to a 10-ft width to allow for more maneuverability boats are slightly larger than they were a long time ago um and they're more consistently um in need of about a 10t width uh for the 30ft slips again the 8ft main 18 to 24 in existing fingers and you're currently at 11t width uh we're proposing to increase that to a 12 um to give more maneuverability but also more importantly increasing the fingers to a 36 in width um that's going to allow for those larger boats uh with more gear and coolers and people um to have a better passage um your current 35 FTS um everything is uh the same for the main dock on the fingers but the slip width is currently 14 we're proposing to increase those to 15t width and again the fingers to a 36 um and then for the 45t slips um current slip widths are 17 we're suggesting you keep those the same based upon um how things are operating currently for the 50ft slips you're currently in ranges from 14 17 and 19t wide um kind of sticking with the 17 ft for those vessels seemed appropriate um in in line your 60t are 20 ft wide and we're proposing to keep those again at 20 ft in width um we are also when we looked through this um looked at the potential of improving the security on the South and West walls and in order to do that the addition of a captain's walk is necessary and that's just adding in a parallel to the wall 4 foot wide Captain elevated dock that would allow you to then put a security barrier on top of the seaw wall and access this Gates so that people can't just randomly walk onto those vessels so we also looked at that during these layouts we looked at a lot of options um the color coating are just different boat sizes and boat mixes we looked at the existing Marina as it was we looked at floating we looked at fixed we looked at rotating all the vessels um to different Arrangements um but in the end uh kind of narrowed it down to the orientation that you currently have is actually the most efficient that you have that you can have have um in order to maintain reasonable Fairway widths and to maintain um reasonable operations um so your current Marina for the fixed dock has a total of 192 vessels um and you can see the breakdown of what you have for 60 50 45 ft slips um the layout for a fixed dock taking into account The Wider slips taking into account some wider Fingers um you end up with a total of 164 V which is a net loss of 28 but we also looked at it from the perspective of increasing some of the boat sizes and not having as many 25 ft but focusing on 30 and a little bit larger also looking at the 60ft vessels maintaining that same amount so you can see here that we went up on stayed the same on the 60ft vessels but with the 50ft slips we went down slightly um but a combination of 50 and 45 we increased the total number of vessels and so we went through all those different matrixes for the fixed and then we did the same thing for the floating docks now what's inst interesting about the floating docks and you'll see here on the screen um in order to provide access to the floating docks you have to have a parallel dock along the wall and you have to have this black gangway ramp going down that gang way allows the floating dock to rise and keep the Ada accessibility so in doing so you lose a little bit of space Associated and I lost the mouse where it is there you go you lose a little bit of space along the wall by adding in this extra so that changed a little bit the mix of types of boats that you can put in and out of there uh we proposed to maintain even in this option all of the South and West wall with fixed docks and only focus on finger or docks a b and c to be floating but in the end um we maintained 163 boats so it's a loss of 29 um um but we were able to keep a very similar mix of vessels um for the floting docks um the marina components the fairways those are the dry bils between each of the docks um your current existing condition Marina has between 75 and 90 on that Fairway between the commercial and Doc a we were able to maintain about a 73t width um for Doc the Fairway between a and b um we had a loss of about 7 and 1/2 ft however ever but for the types of boats that would be going down in that area it meets normal standards for the length of the boat um with the increased length you take a factor of safety of about one and a half times the length of the largest boat and that's how you set your Fairway so it falls within that parameter um between docks B and C we were able to uh gain about 4 feet and then you can see along the line we stayed pretty consistent with the fairways that you have we had some losses in some areas and that came as a result of some of the additions of the captain's walks or some of the different boat mixes um in the end uh put together some quick raw order magnitude costs I would like to point out that these costs are not intended to be your price tag these are more there for relative comparison so that you can understand the difference between what it would cost to do a floating dock versus a fixed Dock of the same type I wouldn't recommend you add these up and assume that will be the cost there are some additional fees and mobilizations and things like that that we're not considered um but in the end the floating docks do have a a different price tag um in some cases 30 to 40% increase um but overall you gain some advantages with voting docks um from a resiliency perspective a convenience perspective and so there's some trade-offs associated with that um move on James so as far as the Upland options are concerned uh We've developed three options to look at generally they're excuse me generally speaking they are um consistent in terms of the amount of parking there's some minor differences that I'll walk through um but I want to talk through kind of the main changes here again the focus with the Upland options being how do we address some of the pedestrian safety concerns and and minimizing pedestrian conflicts with boat trailer traffic while still um providing an Upland space that functions for guests for Park visitors for permanent parking uh people for the marina as well as for the boat trailers so as you can see on the um on the slide here um in this option basically the drive aisle that you have today remains as it is as does the parking in this area the main difference being that we've added some boat queuing lanes that come off Alt 19 um we've got two lanes and then those would launch into the boat ramp that is over in this location the boat ramp on these plan options has shifted to the north slightly by about 15 ft and it's also expanded from a single launch to a double launch um the boat trailer parking remains in the same location that it is today um because of the turnaround that we've added there is a slight decrease in the amount of trailer parking by approximately two spaces so each of the three options that I'll show you goes from about 18 parking spaces for the boat trailers to 16 um the access out to the peninsula would remain the same as it does today off of Alt 19 and that's located here and so you you would still be able to drive your car um out to the peninsula and access that way and but the boat trailer parking would access just north of that in order to to accommodate the boat trailer um lanes that we're showing here we did have to shift the playground and as well as the shelters that are out there today currently those are over in this location um So the plan would be that from a phasing and SE ing standpoint that once that playground has kind of reached its useful age in in maybe 10 years or so that that it's when that playground could be built in a new location along with the new shelters and then you could maybe implement the uh boat trailer parking configuration that we're showing here the next option is is similar um the main difference being that we're showing a large turnaround here so this kind of bifurcates or really separates the um vehicular traffic along the marina front from getting further to the South um and then you'd have a turnaround here to get you back into the parking areas the boat trailer parking as well as the boat trailer queuing Lanes Remains the Same as does the ramp as does the access out to the peninsula one of the comments that we heard um a couple times in the public meeting was to still maintain access for golf cart parking out to the peninsula and golf cart access so we talked about this maybe being um kind of a slip or a pass through where you could have removable ballards and still be able to make that maneuver if you were coming on a golf cart from uh further to the North and then the last option number three here this really shows um a connection from the park from the Upland down to the Waterfront you can see it's a much more mantiz Waterfront uh with benches and swings and really connects the Upland portion to the Waterfront the parking has shifted over um to the location that you see here and expanded slightly to the West so we've netted about the same amount of parking we've actually increased it by one but uh it does represent the largest change to the existing conditions uh the playground would be in the roughly the same location as it is on the other two as is the boat trailer queuing length and the boat trailer parking over in this location so as we look at that with um the marina options this is how those those we're showing this with option three but this is basically how the marina layout that Casey walked through as well as the Upland options that I walked through uh would work together um we talked about a couple other things as far as pedestrian safety and enhancements and so we're showing enhanced connection out to the finger Pier along the uh commercial dock access and having a more defined pedestrian walkway out to that Pier we're also showing a wave break that would help to attenuate some of the wave and wind action um for the day dos and then we're also showing potential expansion to to the day docks um out in this location here and if we did that then that wave break could shift further to the west and be on the outside perimeter of that to provide more protection uh for all of those day docks just kind of a quick by the Numbers uh comparison from an existing condition standpoint from an existing condition standpoint um uh as as it relates to parking um currently you have about 106 parking spaces that includes both Park parking as well as permited parking spaces I think there was about 52 permitted spaces for the uh Marina users option one um has 107 parking spaces option two with the turnaround we had the biggest loss and and that was um yielding only about 93 parking spaces and then option three uh we had a slight increase of two of by of two um to 108 spaces from a boat trailer parking standpoint as I mentioned today you've got about 18 spaces and then options one two and three both yield um 16 spaces and that's really because of that turnaround that we created to get back out um to pick up your vehic your uh Your Vessel from a boat trailer queuing standpoint um that we looked at the existing conditions and from the existing Harbor Master building down to the boat ramp location today um here we go from the existing Harbor Master to the existing boat ramp that's about 470 ft um with the lane adjustments that we did did we're getting about 400 ft um between the two lanes that we're proposing so slight decrease there um in terms of Q length but I think what we've heard is that it's rare occations that the boat trailers actually queue all the way back to the Harbor Master it's more frequent that the queuing length is back to about doc a which is about 280 ft so that would fit within this 400 ft and then from a vehicular use area when we talk about that we're talking about Drive aisles as well as parking areas um today you've got about 1.6 acres of pavement within the vehicular use area and then with option one that would be 1.8 Acres option two would be 1.9 and option three is 1.8 so slight increase in vehicular use area with those which results in a slight decrease in the Upland park space from 2.9 acres in existing conditions to 2.7 with option one and three and 2.6 Acres with option two so just to touch on a couple of the additional pedestrian and kind of enhancements that we looked at um I talked through in the in the overall master plan that I showed here an enhanced connection out to the fishing pier and out to the viewing area there into the day docks really focusing on this area and what we wanted to do was create a condition where you have a more consistent walkway surface right now when you walk along the commercial Dock and you get to the end of uh that dock it kind of puts you out into the parking lot and so it changes surfaces and it's just not a very intuitive area and we thought that there's a way that we could clean that that up with a more consistent surface treatment um in The Hardscape and a and a dock feature we also looked at um you know one of the things we would want to address were pedestrian enhancements along the entire Marina front currently along the water uh front walkways you have a lot of areas where the grade changes quite a bit you've got some drainage issues which has resulted in some pavers settling so we'd want to make sure that we address that and smooth that out and create a nice uh consistent walking surface some other areas where again that um if you're walking out to the peninsula from the north part of the marina um you know you get to a stops sign and then you're Crossing boat traffic and so we'd want to clean that up as well and have more defined pedestrian walking areas there's also some Public Safety enhancements such as bearing the fire line out to the peninsula that's something that we'd want to consider longterm I think we've heard in the past and you can see um in the location here where there's been a vehicle strike resulting in some damage to the con I think that we've heard that that um pipeline has been hit in the past as well so we'd want to make sure that there's maybe an opportunity to actually bury that in the future Improvement and put that pipeline underground with the boat ramp realignment that we're proposing again we're shifting that to the north by about 12 or 15 ft and and doubling the LA the uh launching from one lane to two lanes um currently as you're launching there pretty much right when you get into into the water you have some piles that that are right behind your boat so we wanted to shift that to try to make that access and that launching a little bit easier uh for people who are both launching and recovering and then as Casey talked about um looking at the dock and the slip enhancements in terms of finger Pier width stair access um creating more of a standard uniform uh consistent walking surface as you get out on on the peers as well Casey and before I jump into that I just want to backpedal for one second um what when James was referring to this reduction in the queuing length here from 470 to 400 one of the things that makes that actually very acceptable is as was mentioned uh we're going to be increasing the boat ramp or suggesting the increase the boat ramp from one lane to two and doing that you have the ability to cycle more boats through so you should as a result have less boats waiting to go into the connection area um and then that that creates a little bit more of efficient flow um with the uh with the reduction in the number of boats that are from current to now we also wanted to kind of just get a general idea of ways to expand the marina um rather than coming up with some Concepts we actually looked at some of the older Concepts that were already created um these these expansions took into account um essentially building to the west of your current Marina uh with addition additional slips and creating a a natural break water it also moves the current where am I here so it moves the current entrance which is over here more to the South and brings everything in from a different direction uh this is a substantial change from what you currently have and those types of changes can create um some environmental U roadblocks that you have to go through from a permitting perspective um not necessarily insurmountable but they do take time and they also take cost this also moves the fishing pier from its current location um more centered and um off to the West um and then from a plan view perspective just to give you an idea of what some Studies have shown and felt that these were reasonable to consider from a just a bigger scale where where you could go um without further study um keeping in mind they also have some environment Al mitigation areas identified here we would expect that that would be um something you're going to have to overcome as a result of going out into the water you're going to be dealing with several elements um you know we did some quick permitting checks you know this is going to definitely require a a more large scale permit um those traditionally are 18 to 24 months we've seen them actually extend past 24 months with with the pace that the the Army Corps has been moving lately with the national marine fisheries um but in all it's like going to need the mitigation whether that be seagrasses or other types of species that could be discovered um you're going to need to potentially create some kind of a mitigation area for that but you also will be going out into State lands so you'll be looking at lease modifications and things like that so um this expansion is an opportunity um it is not necessarily A short-term opportunity you're going to need to do some extensive permitting um but it'll also come with a substantial cost I mean some quick quick numbers we saw it as low as 50 million but that was not knowing what your vision could be you know if you look at a lot of buildings adding additional parking parking structures it could continue to climb from that 50 into the $70 million range and those are today you know 50 yeah and again those were quick numbers off of these higher level Concepts um so you know with the Marine expansion you know James talked a little bit about the potential um this is showing the fix stock options uh but you would be able to build a Breakwater but if you build the Marine expansion you can make that part of the Breakwater or the wave attenuator um and to provide an entrance down on the south would take a lot of the environmental impacts um and the more short-term capability with what you currently have would just be building some kind of a wave attenuator around the current fishing pier or a rebuilt Fishing Pier So based on the structural review as well as the Upland enhancements that we're showing we've developed some phasing options here for consideration um so what we would recommend as far as phase one would be um addressing some of the repairs um on the Harbor Master building a lot of that is to the underside of the beams uh that Casey mentioned as well as some repairs and enhancements or replacement of the fishing pier and the day docks and then we're calling Phase 1 a with um doc a replacement basically um Casey's developed uh kind of a sequencing plan which would could allow you to keep the southern half of that dock operable while you build the northern half because it's shifted slightly uh to the north so we've got some ways that we could sequence things with minimal impact uh to Marina residents um but so Phase 1 a we're calling as doc a and then doc B would be potential phase two followed by doc C and then phase four would be um the South and the West Wall as well as the boat ramp configuration um phase number five would be replacement of the commercial docks and the sidewalk enhancements along the um um northern Edge there out to the fishing pier and then phase six would be the Upland enhancements the boat trailer parking reconfiguration some of the playground shifts that I mentioned that would have to happen in order to accommodate that so the idea here in developing the phasing plan was that to try to you know make some tangible segments that you could Implement over time versus just you know the Marine expansion that was proposed before which was a very large project and very high ticket in terms of dollar um amount this allows you to replace some of the infrastructure make some of the upgrades in more bite-sized pieces over time you could always combine phase one and two and do that as phase one or combine different options but we wanted to at least break it down into a sequence that we felt was manageable um as well as implementable so as far as next steps um we would recommend finalizing the priority replacement and the repairs kind of based on the phasing and the assessment that Casey did um identifying funding sources and grant opportunities to help leverage um uh funds that the city has or will have in the future establ and then with that establishing the budget and phasing um recommendations and the implementation sequence uh then comes design and permitting of the actual docs so construction documents submitting to the agencies and then construction based on either whatever phases is um selected or multiple phases that would be selected um so with that we'd like to turn it over to questions and and answers okay so why don't we do this we'll let each of us ask a couple of questions because I'm sure there's a thousand questions we all have so let's let's not let's just do a couple questions each and we'll just go around again okay is that okay with everybody sure that way everybody gets a shot to ask something in this next hour okay B may I'll start with you sure I think we have some pretty good voting experts up here not sure good starting with me is a good choice but always start with you're you're great um so um well uh let me ask about the boat ramp so um cuz you know a couple things hit me I saw the presentation at the health center um first of all you know moving the park you know bothered me right off the bat cuz then you lose a lot of the park but doubling up on the boat ramp I guess do we have a sense of who uses the boat ramp are the residents non-residents numbers all that kind of thing yeah so back to the um some of the online survey input um what we have I think was 30% of the res or of the respondents so 30% of the24 were actual boat ramp users um and then based on that there was a mix of public as well as um I think some Charter uh fishing people that utilize it um so split between Charter as well as recreational users um okay and vice mayor Lori can we can get back with you with actual numbers right of both annual boat ramp passes that we sell um as well as um The Daily passes that we we get we have all of that data we can't really track the uh daily passes and where they're coming from because we don't it's not a pay by plate but as far as the annual passes um it's heavily weighted towards residents right but I can get you the actual numbers I'm just going to make if I may just a baseline comment because I think a lot of my questions will flow from that you know I mean I came away feeling like we got a 10 lb bag out there and all the designs are trying to put 15 lbs in it and so you know when you have something like the boat ramp then I'm like why would we expand the boat ramp I mean we got all we can do to handle what we're doing so let's just improve what we've got and you know put 10 lbs and 10 lbs the most efficiently but that's just the Baseline but anyway um so um well and if I can add here I would just say that because of the type of ramp the lack of depth the lack of with these are not big boats these are small little fishing boats that don't require slips these are you know less than 20 there you go probably less than probably 25 feet or less what' you say just for your own edification yeah no I I I I know that none of my family could ever put their boats in there cuz their boats were too big wouldn't allow and and the current ramp is actually very steep um steeper than was one of the things that we spoke a few of them about the challenges on so the arrangement of and as James pointed out when you go to back your boat in there are pilings and docks right in the way so you have to maneuver and so some of the adjustments we were making ter we're trying to center it on The Fairway but we felt that by doubling the size of it would create a more efficient flow so you would have less backup um and less interaction with the pedestrians was the intent of moving everything more to the South right and you know and I get it um I guess in my mind as this thing moves along um to me it's trade-offs it's going to be all about trade-offs so so data driven stuff is going to be important like who wants you know why the better boat ramp who wants the better boat ramp because if it's non-residents I'm not interested if it's residents then maybe that's very valid and maybe it needs to be more efficient and so you know but it's all because it's trade-offs because right now part of the trade-off is the loss of what 29 boat spots so and we know we have a long waiting R uh list of dine residents so again it's all going to be about tradeoffs so I think the data that drives where we end up Landing is going to be really really critical um I I uh the the walkways on the North and South Side I completely agree um absolutely on on the North absolutely in the South but again I'm asking myself and I'll ask you when you look at the tradeoffs I just I I'm not seeing how you do it and still don't lose so much you know on the the boat slip side can you answer that so so the south south and the west side where we added in the captain's walk some of the trade-offs were loss of slips but it was more a little bit of an impact on the fairways um getting a little bit tighter um but in the end it the trade-off word is is very key there are tradeoffs you if you want a captain's walk you'll lose certain things if you want floating docks you'll lose certain things and so it's just a matter of like you said finding that sweet spot I guess you would say of where everything Finds Its balance but um I I don't know that you're going to gain back all of the boats I I know you're not going to gain back all of the boats by getting rid of the captain's walks because also widening the fingers impacted it and also widening some of the boat slips impacted it so there were three or four things combined that caused the reduction in the boats um and the quantities um okay so um I'll ask one more and turn it over my colleagues but so um the expans iions the either moing or expansion of docks um you know obviously for me I'd want a little bit more detail dive from you guys into what that would really look like what that would really mean what the timelines and the process might be but I guess my question to you is if we could do that like where would we park people well that that was the one thing that I didn't touch on in there but absolutely I mean you already are hearing people indicate that parking is a challenge um as you continue to add more slips unless you create more land which is a difficult thing to do in the environmental permitting World um to park them you're going to need to to look at options for ways to park them which is the reason why I said the pricing could continue to climb from there because if you start looking at alternative off-site parking or structures or other things those prices just continue to build off of that expansion um I will tell you that my experience dealing with the environmental folks if you build a marina with less land they are more supportive than building out into the water land that is to support a waterbor exercise they they they don't like that as much so right and I think most of us up here just got done going to a resiliency conference about our environmental future future for Coastal communities and so I think we're all super sensitive to the positives and negatives of making it any worse you know for all of us regardless of what the regulations are um okay I I'll I'll turn it over to well can I ask one more question no I'll wait I'll wait okay okay fair commissioner tranga ask y thank you mayor I'm going to you'll have to throttle me back here a little bit but I'm going to try to do four just like maybe four questions and then I'll try to look at you get my fourth pass three I can go to three three question Mega three okay so we'll come back around well I'll have to you'll be coming around a bunch of times for me but um Let me let me start off with an over just a basic overview uh of the Marin so my first question then is um can we expand the Basin did you did you look at expanding the Bas Basin does it make any sense to expand the Basin is it cost prohibitive and potentially from the location um out in the sun I call that the doneen sound um is it is it functionable to to to do that another words I'm talking about increasing the size of of the marina itself the the marina for the boat facility first question where are you going oh there you go I'm trying to get back to the expansion slide here uhhuh so so can we expand it um we haven't had any initial discussions with the environmental agencies on this a lot of ours were at a high level based on experience having worked in other facilities you know the indications we gave you so um what are the you ownership rights what are the probabilities of submerge Lane leases you know what are the environmental impacts you know those we haven't looked at in significant detail but based upon other projects we've worked on um we believe that there is a possibility for that to happen it's more about what's the environmental Capital that you'll have to give up as a result of that is it a significant mitigation effort you have to deal with are you going out too far into any kind of waterways that you know from a navigation perspective you have to do some other enhancements we haven't gotten into that detail but I mean it it is a feasible option it's just going to take time and and money unfortunately to to jump into to that as far as the overall cost and so we can peek at it for sure um can you show us again what that look like by expanding the Basin yeah and these These are these are past uh studies that were done back in the 80s and 90s and we felt that they were suitable enough for at least High Lev discussions with you today but I mean essentially your current Marina on the right um except for instead of having the uh entrance into the marina on the North side it is shifted down to the South side and then it creates a whole another Peninsula your current Peninsula would be the same it creates a whole another Peninsula with parking and additional facilities out waterw of that um so from that you're not in this ideal you're only gaining it looks like about 85 90 boat slips I would say if you're going to do an expansion you need to look at something that's going to give you more than that as an opportunity and so we'll need to spend some time with the environmental agencies they look for justification statements they want to understand you know the the raw numbers you know what are the demands what are the needs you know and what are the gains and benefits and losses so we we could do all those things it's just just a short comment so we that's been looked at a number of times here from considerations not only of the the one cost but obvious the financial cost of agreed of doing this and they were trying to also look at a flushing condition for for the inside of the marina so it looked as though the flushing had already been closed off but originally was there um but yes so so to expand it probably significantly expensive and significant uh obstacles thrown in front of us that's you're probably quick review that's that's my my short high level yes okay um second of all what is the condition of our existing uh Marina from the standpoint of the seaw walls uh and any other considerations I know you didn't do a full in-depth structure you commented about it you said you you looked at some certain elements of that I know we did redid seaw walls relatively recently um I'm going to assume that the existing physical structure uh and then in concert with that with the pilings condition so I'll kind of Step through them a little bit so from the fishing pier perspective uh the pilings as were assessed by others are in um poor condition they're you know in need of getting a re reboot shall we say over time here um it has some unusual structures um from some expansions and as a result some of the elements are deteriorating you know the bolts and stuff need to be replaced so a reframing of the fishing pier you know should be considered in in in the short future and that's why we were uh suggesting that go first um from a seaw wall perspective the whole west side has received some attention already um the overall seaw wall of the entire perimeter um shows signs of leaking um it's not uncommon for those types of walls that are concrete um walls to have leaks um there's not much you can really do to address that other than potentially put some costly fobal fill behind the wall or just monitor it and as you see you've got asphalt patches in a lot ofc ations you've kind of been tending to it over time but I wasn't didn't see anything on the seaw wall that was showing significant cracks and heavy corrosion and things falling apart so I I feel like you've got some good life out of the seaw wall provided you don't try and deepen the whole Bas and Beyond its capacity um moving on to the the Harbor Master building do you mind touching on the pilings just a little bit more in detail for me and inside besides sure sure so I was going to hit the docks one at a time sorry good good so as as the Harbor Master building is concerned as James mentioned and I didn't go into detail on it the the underside structure and the pilings and the foundation you know it appear to be in reasonable shape they're not showing signs of significant disrepair there are some beams on the underside that are showing some corrosion um they've been attended to in the past um some of those repairs are needing to be touched up again but we feel like you can go in there and repair that structure and on the side and gain gain additional longer life out of it but nothing significant it's just needs to be attended to because corrosion is setting in um regarding docs a b and c the piling you know a lot of the suggestions from the people that had done the inspections were to wrap them and jacket them and you know to attend to them but that they had some life left in them um in looking at them I wasn't as worried about the piles um as I was you know wanting to make sure that we start looking at the framing some of the wood and the the bolt connections are just showing signs of life and they just need to be addressed and so um in the order from a b and c is ultimately the the timelines we felt were the best um for various reasons but a is needing the attention first um and then we would move on to B and then C um the Outer Perimeter docks they're they're in decent shape I mean we didn't see significant corrosion on the bolts we didn't see a lot of splitting of the wood like we did on some of the old other docks and so that's why we didn't put those into the higher priority areas so summary the pilings look serviceable at this point in time they're not they're not 30 years more of life but they're serviceable for a short term I'd say you've got 5 to 10 years of in it but they should be monitored on a regular basis um for attention I'm going to stay real high level um with my last question um moing balls or other structures that we could utilize outside of this Marina for additional spacing spaces additional uh boat uh usage did you consider that and what is the what is the current status of of that we've looked into that over the years looking at what St Pete had done in the past and then we had this whole thing in the last 20 10 years that you're familiar with with about how the they really wanted to observe what was really happening with with moing balls Etc any comments that you'd like to make well we didn't dive really heavily into that I mean we we briefly talked about it it was more from a timeline perspective of how long would it take for permitting um you know there are lots of different challenges I'm sure you've spoken to different municipalities with you know people tying up to them how do you regulate it how do you control it what happens with the waste pump outs parking all those things kind of Ripple with that um but you know in the end it has been an acceptable alternative um by the the Regulatory Agencies um but it isn't always uh as acceptable um from the local municipalities meaning the the public doesn't always like them as much so it really depends upon your demographic and also depends upon again parking and accessibility if I may though but what what's the current St St I realize all of the ISS I I do actually realize all of the issues behind it but what's the status of of of uh of receiving permission to utilize if I may have you seen any of that along this area I I I haven't I I I haven't done a lot of research on that in this area thank you that's three mayor okay commissioner thank you mayor yeah let's let's go back to the ramps everybody's favorite subject um you're mentioning you're doubling the size when you say doubling the size you're talking about just the number of people that can launch simultaneously or literally the the the width of them the size of the ramp so so Curr currently your ramp is wide enough for one vessel to back into it and so if somebody launches their boat leaves their truck sitting there moves their boat over to park and then comes back everybody's waiting for that person to do their their their deal um we're going to 26t or two 17 ft wide ramps side by side so two vessels or two vehicles can back in and launch boats simultaneously and so the width of those is wide enough to accommodate somebody in the trailer and in a ramp do we have an issue now with the width of our ramp and any concerns that it's too small or just right I'm just I'm trying to figure out the width and whether that's appropriate or are we again trying to shove something in a bucket that's too small yeah I think some of the comments that we heard anecdotally I guess was that it's pretty narrow and steep so as part of the plan with what we're showing there the thought was we widen it out maybe increase the length to decrease the slope a little bit and try to address some of that yeah okay which which by the way does make sense not necessarily two boats right right or at I hear those I hear those complaints all the time so I think too you know in the plan we've shown how you could have maybe a double launch but you may still just want a single but in doing that it still may be a benefit to shift it North slightly so you don't have that uh conflict with the pile right behind as well as maybe widen it a little bit just to make it a little bit easier to launch and recover would there be if we went to two ramps would there be a separator between the ramps there there there could be I mean it's really up to user preference or owner preference and we traditionally see ramps that are two boats side by side launching where you birth on one side and then you birth on the other and then you have two double ramps we've also seen them where there are separators between them completely um when you put the separators in between you end up taking up more space and so I I would say that we would not do that and we would set it up so that you could launch two boats simultaneously but you would have docks on one side or the other of the ramp and just cuz I see cars that take up two parking spaces yes and so what would stop what would stop somebody launching their boat just take up the whole thing and there's I'm not selfish I just take my half out of the middle right that type of thing well unfortunately boat ramp behavior is unexplainable it it can it's it's always an entertaining process but uh hopefully you have have more experienced voters than you don't but uh not likely yeah not not likely and I heard at the the health center some of the comments about the queuing and confrontation that can occur Among The Boat Owners or between boat owners and other people trying to use a marine feather how do you anticipate that conflict being resolved with the two ramps are we trying to solve a problem but we end up increasing the problem I I've I use a lot of different boat ramps uh see a lot of different challenges and there's always that one person that just doesn't know what they're doing and that creates the anger for the seasoned veteran um I I think my my gut would tell me that the experience people gain with using the boat ramp will eventually solve some of those issues but you're always going to have some challenges um the trade-offs you know the commissioner was referring to before you know we can make more space by shifting that tree more to the East and creating more area for circulation but then the tradeoff is losing more trailer parking um you know we can eliminate a single ramp and double ramp and go to a single but then you have some queuing issues and so it really will need to be a holistic review amongst the team here to discuss what's going to be what's best for the site and is on the survey uh one of the concerns was the quantity of boat ramp parking and so is this adding to the parking or is this taking away from a problem that we already have yeah so this does impact as I mentioned in the comparison um right now by my count you've got 18 boat trailer parking spaces right here and then you've got the Overflow lot that is utilized across the street um so we would definitely encourage the city to continue to provide that overflow lot as an option but because of the return Lane that we've added here and just the circulation that we had to create we did lose um two boat trailer parking spaces where you currently have 18 so we've gone down from 18 to 16 so minor loss of two there and as far as the queuing goes um and I know we talked about that while current the current queue goes to the Master most of the time it doesn't go that far in reality and I know that right now the queuing could worst case scenario back up onto Edgewater with this new proposal is there a concern of that that that could be a concern we would um study that a bit more from a traffic study standpoint um if I if you go back and think to option number um one as an example where you're basically adding the the revised trailer queuing Lanes here but keeping that in this option for example you could utilize this like you do today as maybe a backup option if it is full on the other ones but then you'd have a three-way kind of point of entry there for the boat ramp that could create potentially other issues but I think that you know that could be a backup kind of overflow option if you if it got busy on to 19 you can put Lori out there is a traffic cop that right there that directs the boat ramp good luck on that we have had discussions internally with both the consultants and staff on different things that depending on what the chosen plan is um we we did hear um the Consultants heard a lot about the just the conflict of the park users The Pedestrian users and so they were trying to come up with a way to separate those different uses um to have The Pedestrian access the people visiting the restaurant the people walking out to the pier versus the boat tra traffic to kind of get those into different areas uh we have um had discussions with the Marine advisory committee they are in discussions like how many of our boat ramp users are our residents and recreational users versus how many of them using it for commercial purposes and do we get into more policy decisions on regulating how many of those um passes do we sell um to people who are using it for commercial purposes who are coming from out of the city so I think there's some things that we can do um depending on what the route is that um the city chooses to go uh with the master plan that we can do some additional studies um within how many of our ramp users are coming from where we can get that data how many we have the data as far as the individual passes go um and we can kind of put together some policy decisions that can help hopefully alleviate that but make sure that the I think think what I've heard first and foremost is that we want a boat ramp that accommodates our resident users and the recreational users um and right now there's challenges uh for our residents who are just trying to use it on a Saturday afternoon with the congestion uh with the narrowness with the steepness and it backing up um that if people are trying to retrieve their boat having only one ramp uh then they're trying to fit in with people that are trying to launch and it just becom chaos so we're trying to um hopefully come up with some creative ideas to improve the situation and mayor I think I'm just going to leave it to topic Focus so I'm I'm done with my ramp questions okay commissioner Walker thank you ma'am yeah I have several questions but I'll I'll keep it um so I guess the first question I have is um what I'm hearing is the Harbor Master building um materially is in in passable shape is that correct with with some repairs to be done on the underside yes I mean there's it it currently is an older structure and isn't to to current codes but you know from that perspective we weren't evaluating its structural stability we were evaluating its condition and so there are some repairs that are necessary on the underside um for sure but it has some life left in it for sure is that why it's designated as a phase one recommendation that's correct yeah when when you start seeing signs of some corrosion you want to get on top of those quickly so that they don't become more significant yeah I I would question then the the docs B and C sorry docs B and C um being of a lower phase or structural priority um because those docks are you know the feedback I get is they're in pretty bad shape each one of them were in similar conditions to each other as far as you know levels of deterioration the pilings all all should be addressed uh with some level of repair but not rep always replacement but with Doc a um some of the structurals spacing of the elements uh were a little bit wider than that of B and C and so we felt that because the spacing of the structural elements were a little bit wider on a that it should be addressed quickest uh there's not a failure concern it's just there's there's less members and they should be attended to okay um uh the second question I have with regards to the Windbreak and the wind mitigation um structure or whatever you're proposing on the northwest the entry into the marina um does that take into account the water depth on the approach and does it take into account the alignment of the channel markers coming in we we hadn't completely studied the whole entire layout of that it was more just addressing from a high level the need for something and so right now we we've shown the the wave break following the F the fishing pier to try and get a little bit out into the mouth of the channel to keep the waves from impacting um inside the marina if you look at the Blue Area there there's a potential to extend the fishing dock out a little further create a little bit more of a refuge as part of that fishing dock making the wave breake you know alignment there's lots of different options from structure to natural rubble and and and rip wrap levels um but we hadn't looked at the channel alignments and some of those things that's stuff that we're going to have to look at for sure as you get into permitting and in the submerged land lease we had even discussed potentially moving the wind brake even further out to encapsulate part of the hotel area and using that whole creating a whole another Bas up adjacent to the hotel for day dos so there's there's some options there that could be explored yeah I well and I appreciate so that blue area really is just the area that you would propose something whether it be a longer fishing pier or uh something else to mitigate because that that angle the angle of approach looks problematic yeah and and as James mentioned you know this is the very early stages of this and you know consensus building and and and hearing input you know from you as well as the public is uh GNA Drive some of the next steps okay so um yeah I'm going to go back to the ramps as well um there something I need to understand and I don't um you have it as a phase four structural assessment but a phase six for recommendation um I'm I'm just curious as to where the the boat ramp okay so there's the phase pH sorry phase four okay phase four okay all right I I read that wrong um okay the and if I may one of the things I left out in my presentation and I apologize for that um but right down there where he's pointing those are the proposed um boat ramp docks okay that would be used by the boat Ram so in order to build build out this phase four from a doc perspective we'd have to shift a boat ramp okay that that yeah that that was a concern I had um and finally and I'm not sure if this is for you or staff but do we have a feel for other funding sources or grant opportunities to support some of this because this as vice mayor said this is a this is a 5B bag and we've got probably about more than that that we're we're trying to get our arms around well I I had shared with staff I'll let them but you know when when you look at just high level rules of thumb for Marina Master planning there are lots of different references and if you say I have X many acres this is how many boats you currently are fitting way more boats than than normal for that you've done a great job of efficiently packing 10 lbs into a 5 lb bag as you were saying but uh it it's the trade officer there you know to try and get things more efficient and to meet some of those needs all right that's but I'm good I think Laney can answer the question oh I'm sorry go no that's fine no you were asking about funding sources so that's kind of the next steps in this um as we start to really massage what this plan is and how aggressive or how modest we we do want to bite off um we will work with kimley horn um to and they will help us in a in determining what different grant opportunities are out there but we will also before we get this completely finalized when we bring back to you we'll be working with the finance team as well to develop that complete funding package uh whether that's just for phases one and two or whatever um pieces we choose to to tackle and um what that timeline is all right thank you okay before I ask some of my questions um I need to ask what your available time is because we won't be done with this conversation until at least 12:30 it is on it won't be done until at least 12:30 we just got through four sets of questions we're going around again and we have a a whole another citizen survey which I know will will at least be an hour so we have two options um we stay an hour longer um or we try to sort something out with zoom with the consultant for the survey because they're going out away for the summer so I mean so we go it would at least go to 130 I can do that I have a one that I can change so I can do it I'm fine I'm fine 130 I'm fine 130 145 I mean we need to take a break after the marina discussion yeah I I do have a hard stop I got a I'm being picked up at 20 to2 and I have a 2:00 I can't change okay um thank you very much commission we appreciate it okay so I get back on my or a quarter of I'll so since a lot of us talked about the ramp I'm just just going to say I don't think it needs to be two I just think it needs to be built correctly and it wasn't built correctly and in the correct location and nobody's wanted to touch it because it's going to get rid of our it's going to we're going to lose some slips to do it right I think we just have to do it right I mean that's it I I don't think we have to have two you you guys are going to come back and tell us more specific numbers of usage um the In-N-Out thing you know the stacking I don't know what the answer is I am concerned about the stacking on the Alt 19 if there's a better way to do that I do agree that it is a conflict with the pedestrians and I do see it so we need to be able to ensure it doesn't that is a it highly congested area on Alt 19 highly congested so if you can figure out a way to not make it back up on Alt 19 um so that's the ramp so you talked about floating docks and fixed docks can you tell me why you you would do floating docks for a b and c not for the walls what's the why wouldn't you do it is it because the wall is fixed it the wall is fixed but it gets back to the the need for having some level of point of access with the gang way and in order to address the tides up and down um we're looking at about a 50 so right there you're looking at about a 45 to 50 foot long gang way um that has to be used to accommodate ADA compliance and so I understand so if we were going to put them along those walls we'd have to put in a wider Captain's walk than we currently are showing there at 4 foot and then we'd have to put in a gangway of 54t length to allow people to walk down and circle back to in order to maintain that so there were some losses of slip as a result of that and I can study it some more but you know in order to maximize as much as we could in this space I felt like putting in the floating docks with the ramps no I understand what you're saying I mean I would like to know the difference yeah that's some problem I can I can certainly I'm I'm not saying what I think is right or wrong I'm just I just wondered I didn't see where it said yeah why there was a difference between the two yeah and I I I've spent a lot of time scratching my head trying to figure out a way to make everything floating try to get as many boats as possible in here and meet all the requirements it definitely was a fun challenge um but I will look at that for sure um so my third thing is the Harbor Master building what what do you saying needs to be done to that um the underside beam system um is showing some are you saying that's the only thing that needs to be done to that well there's some cracked uh masonry sections I mean the roof roof systems old and we're not saying that you should change it out if you're not having issues with it I figured you'd be telling us we needed to tear it down no well I mean it doesn't I me I'm just saying it doesn't I just assumed that's what we would get I think natural disasters will decide that for you unfortunately thank you I'm trying to avoid that but it doesn't mean it does not meet current codes um but you know I can't go into a building tell you tear it down because it doesn't meet current codes if the condition is you know reasonable it's not showing signs of disrepair you know that that was all I was ultimately looking at so the underside was showing some signs of disrepair it needed to the croing beams needed to be addressed and what was the cost to do all of that uh it's somewhere in the $250 to $300,000 range to do some upgrades on there could be as low as 150 we needed to speak with a couple contractors the issue is getting under there tides limited time space and and if you're looking at the marina cuz we're looking at a master plan and a master plan doesn't mean it all happens now it's you know could be here to 20 years or here to 40 years right you're just trying to get a sense of where you're going so you can plan for your Capital budgets over time like I I didn't see anything where you said where you thought the Harbor Master building should be as far as completely separate location no I'm not saying it should move I'm just I mean there I didn't see any opinion as to whether this was a good place for a harbor master or not yeah uh so we we did study in kind of sketch format where it could go Al in as far as alternate locations um we ended up keeping it where it was shown and providing the recommendations to make the repairs um you know it it resulted in a loss of Upland parking or Upland park space if we were to shift it like we um you know studied options that could pull it up into this location but then you're just we're working with a fixed space both Upland as well as Marina so it's a trade-off of what you want give to to relocate some of those features either parking or Upland park space or keep it where it is and and uh make the repairs and get another um maybe several several years out of it and how long are you thinking that's going to last with the repairs if we make all those repairs to the haror master building I mean you're not you're not going to get away from having to continue to make repairs to the building without replacing it um for sure but I mean you can get an additional 15 years of life out of the side um for sure with that before you have to do some additional stuff um you know at the end of the day um eliminating the location of where it is to try and gain some water space Corners are very awkward in Marinas as yeah no it's not it's not worth a return on investment exactly and you know we've had some just early on discussions with your building official just to get an idea of options and things so we're going to continue to work through on that as well to see what's there I mean the cost to replace it is you know astronomical could be considered if the foundations are able to be kept like the piling uh the pricing won't be nearly as bad as you know having to replace the full Foundation system okay I think you're going to need to do some refreshment of that building for sure you think it's definitely not ADA Compliant um okay commissioner mayor two additional things um so um what was your basis of of of doing more 45 and 30 foot slips and less 25 what was the data reason for that or was it just oh we're losing this we're trying to make this work don't want to punt it to Lori but I will since she she deals with a lot of that out on a regular basis so um the 25 ft slip weight list when I first arrived at the marina we didn't have a weight list well we did but we quickly eliminated it um people were on it for various reasons forgot they were on it so that particular boat size slip turns over more quickly and more frequently than any other slip uh we find ourselves turning it over all the time and some of the reasons for that is you know people have small enough boats that if they get into a situation where they want to save money they still have a trailer and they'll decide to pull them out uh find a place to store them on a trailer on land and uh they they quickly realize that the maintenance on the hall is an additional expense so um you know they will pull in and out we'll find that we have empty slips uh Monday through Friday morning and they'll put the boat back in just to use it on the weekends periodically so um we I get questioned a lot why are so many of those slips not being used they are rented but they're not always used used so and the philosophy behind that is people don't want to maybe bottom paint their boats so they don't want them sitting in the water all the time the bigger the boat gets you don't have that choice you don't have those options so um by adding 30ft slips and having fewer 25t slips we can still put those smaller boats in 30 SLP 30ft slips but we can't put the bigger boats in the 25 ft slips when they're empty so the 30ft weight list has 37 or 38 names on it currently and I've got the numbers right here actually the 30 foot weight list has 36 names on it the 25t weight list only has 14 so the people on the 30 foot weight list are waiting for 2 to 3 years it's maybe 6 months for a 25t so it gives us a lot of flexibility in years where where people you know don't necessarily have to have a boat you know Co brought a lot of boats to the water um we still have the flexibility to use those 30ft slips for anything from a small boat to a 28t boat thank you for that um and little editorial thought at least in my kindergarten brain on this is that's what makes the boat ramp important because you know I've seen some of the social media oh you're just going to make this Marina about rich people you know what about just the average joke that has a boat and so you know if that's if that's the reality of what's going on then that might create the boat ramp being much more important to be a good one um but again it's still about residents and the usage appropriately so thank you for that um my other question to you and again I know enough about this to be very dangerous which is why I'm asking you so I'm being told you know whether than put all this money into floating docks use tide slides I think I don't know if I'm using the right term tide slides that go up and your boat goes up and down and just raise the fixed docks a little bit and you know the finger docks and you know that's the better that's the better way than doing a bunch of floating Ducks so what's your response to that I mean it's certainly an option um for sure it's a coste effective solution um you know the the sea level rise is happening I mean we're seeing it with Higher King Tides they're variable um it the only thing that provid provides only thing that floating docks provide that will help you is the resiliency factor of you know it's going to go up in your significant storms and come down where with fixed docks if anybody leaves their boats tied up you know the docks are going to go underwater boats can sink you know and we've seen that happen at some recent marenas uh down in Southwest Florida um so you're it is a cost-effective solution for sure um I I think what I showed there was is you don't necessarily gain more slips as a result of that um you may change the slip mix a little bit uh it's really just a cost factor that you're going to end up paying a little more for the floating Docks but you have the resiliency and and the convenience that comes with it so what you're saying as far as the designs go I mean savings fixed versus versus floating but as far as the designs you've shown here it doesn't really change a lot of the tradeoffs in terms of space corre you're not going to gain a lot of slips by going with fix I mean you change and I can go back to the side but there were certain numbers of 45 Footers that had to go to 30 Footers as a result of a floating and so on but you didn't change the to net total on that um the challenge with fix stocks are predicting the right elevation to put it at so that 10 years from now you're not going to be dealing with them being too low or too high and then whenever you're too high with smaller boats it's a little bit harder as you know know to climb out and so it's a convenience factor that you have a trade-off on that as well cool okay thank you appreciate it those are M two addition commissioner thank you mayor stay in high level still um want to talk about uh floating Ducks just real quick um we had we had a group that we looked into that several years ago and in quite some depth um a concern that I have and just want to ask if you've looked into that specifically what what type of floating dock are you talking about utilizing there's many different of course um but then also have you considered the openness of of our of the current entrance if we don't change anything um and the flow of the water coming through there as it might relate to for example in your plan a for example ad do uh ad do gets a lot of movement um tremendously a lot of movement and just wanted to ask that question uh I ran into folks that would say to me um because it all sounds good floating docks all sound good I love floating I've had my big boat on a floating dock um the the the problem the problem is that there's some misunderstanding about floating docks number for example you you can't end up with a very low uh tide because you'll you'll wreck it mhm if particularly if you got a big boat you you can wreck that uh that duck in in in a heartbeat if you got some big boats on it and it just it stays down uh but then also people would say well we also want to put a boat lift we want boat lifts on our be able to have Boat Lifts of course you can't put a boat lift on a on a on a floating dock very very difficult I don't think they recommend that at all so what type of floating dock are you looking at to in your consideration for this obviously there's tremendous cost upgrade and cost anywhere up to anywhere up to Triple but mostly in general you used about 1.7 or something like that I didn't say you use that I mean that's what it ended up being some number like that um would you just comment about that and the concerns that you might have of of of this specific Marine on so we we had U first of all the cost comparisons I did I contacted a contractor that's currently working on a marina here in West Coast of Florida um to get an idea of what they're seeing for numbers for the fix docks and then I contacted a uh floating dock supplier uh in particular of concrete uh floating docks to just get an idea of what their you know General market rate is per square foot just to kind of get these comparisons um for this discussion um you know so to answer your question regarding the floating docks I was looking at concrete floating docks um because they're a little more stable when you're dealing with the wave environment um um I didn't do as good of a job as I probably should have in presenting that you know I do recommend putting in some form of wave attenuation at the entrance to your Marina to control some of that wave environment just looking at this picture here it's not the best picture I could have brought for this topic but this is underneath of the building um you're getting a wave environment underneath of the Harbor Master building that in high water event high wave events and high tide um is splashing the underside and we believe that that's contributing to the reason why you're seeing the corrosion that you're seeing there so um yes you are getting that wave environment for sure in there I know you've probably seen it so stabilizing a with a heavier floating dock definitely would be the best Venture but also controlling that wave environment with a an attenuation of some sort would be recommended as well um it doesn't have to be immediate but something that you should consider um there are other floating dock Alternatives um in a more stillw environment they have fixed frames um just plastic tubs um there's aluminums there's lots of different ones some are more stable than others um from a resiliency standpoint you have to look at it of you know which ones are going to be the most solid giving you the long term so that's where I've always leaned towards the concrete Docks but we can look at other Alternatives um from a cost perspective as well to maybe find The Best of Both Worlds thank you I appreciate that comment and I also appreciate that consideration and for the wave in ination you know it's obviously rather large number um just for quick reference uh we had we had looked into um what effect that might have and we ended up talking with an individual this is a comment but it's going to lead to a question uh individual is really well well versed on these Waters here and um we were talk about Northwest and he said well what about the other direction he says you're going to have that and you're going to certainly have that in any storm and he said so you better you better take that into consideration and and he was probably right we considered that and thought about that in in depth but want to talk about the Fairway um you gave some measurements for the fairways you you talk about how you use about one and a half per the per the the the the largest or longest boat um that would be for the that would be for the the secondary Fairways the primary Fairways you you should go a little higher um but I didn't mean to interrupt on that no that's okay so the primary Fairway is one that you're you're you're you're going through and the other one what about the ones that are closed in or you have to maneuver in uh which is which is the F very our very first Fairway so I mean if if you look there at um five six and seven those would be what I would call primary Fairway because those are ones where multiple boats are collecting into it I mean going with a one and a half there is is not as ideal as what you would like you'd like to be more than that at 175 unfortunately um you don't have the space for that without continuing to chop away and so the reason for this table was to try and show you that we were able to maintain close to what you're currently operating at now um although it doesn't necessarily Spike right up to the best of the standards um it seems to be getting used and it's functioning with the US users that are there um we tried to keep the larger vessels more towards the entrance so that they didn't have to try and navigate on some of the narrower ones um but it it definitely is tight um but I was excited to see that you know except for the West Fairway we were able to keep everything or improve on on the fairways that you had I just leave it at that I'm not going to go any further with that about the Fairway it it is a big consideration and particularly when you get a a a person that's not very familiar and or anybody that has any incident going on which can happen agreed unfortunately always at the wrong time and we and we will continue to discuss it I know that we've had numerous conversations about it so quick just a quick question about the about the boat ramp um so a comment has been made about trying to put great a great way to just ask this question is about trying to put 15 lbs into 10 lb just we all know what that means now so so um we have a we have a we have a functioning conglomeration is what we have here we've got we have a park we have a walkway we have a Ingress and egress we've got a ramp we've got boats in in the water we've got uh uh people walking dogs we got people going out to another facility that's that's uh infected facilities the sailing facility as we have a lot of things happening there m did you consider have you considered perhaps there's too many things going on here you think about did you did you think about that or is that a consideration that about potentially taking something out of the equation and and simplifying the use um the main focus was really um trying to come up with solutions to keep the existing program es that you have without eliminating them if that's you know the direction that that we decide to go um we could certainly do that um you know some of the comments that we got just on the written comment cards were potentially relocating the boat ramp to another facility offsite we've not studied that at this level but you know I think maybe that I'm not sure if that's the example you're getting at I actually I am I'm open in open in yeah so that we we've not studied other locations for their suitability to to accommodate this ramp uh but we did have several comments on on comment cards that were related to something along those lines yes um but in the um study and development of the master plan options and the Matrix options within the marina uh the the intent or the approach that we took was really to try to come up with solutions that we thought would streamline the efficiencies minimizing um pedestrian and boat trailer traffic conflicts and just trying to present solutions that would allow you to keep the uses that you've had historically but in you know in a way that we feel is cleaned up a little bit from a safety and access standpoint I know what we we looked at once again again that South cut yeah even even without expanding just to get the South cut just to get the wash through yeah the flush yeah um and and it and when and we even looked at trying to perhaps approach someone else about purchasing some some rights or some facility Etc um but I wonder if I'm wondering if we take took one thing out of this equation um I I didn't I'm not using the I'm not going to talk about P the parking because that gets oh gets crazy um this is actually this if we try doubling that we may end up with even more parking problems um just from that I mean you say we lost two I thought we had 19 there but it's you said 18 and went it fell back to 16 uh people Park that their cars other places go and look for other places or literally go home with their with their rig and come back with another car and go home and get the rig and come back I don't know how much of that goes on but that's why I asked about the consideration of yeah of something different you know in this Marina that we have it's a little bit unusual from the standpoint of we've got vehicles that are launching from a boat ramp and going all the way through our Marina mhm and if you think about that you have your you have your wake you have your uh wake wake control wake issues um you've got people coming through a marina uh you got people lined up in the marina that brings on tension Etc so that's why I asked that question if you had if you had thought about any of that I know we didn't ask for you to do that I don't think we did um but we asked you to give us a master plan so I just wanted to know if if you thought about that well some of the points you brought up though are reasons for doubling the size of the boat ramp you know queuing up of boats not just queuing up of vehicles but I mean this plan that's shown here we're not necessarily endorsing one over the other but this plan here was as James mentioned trying to separate some of those uses and to create a a more pleasant environment for all the different users but um from a capacity perspective and again not something we're encouraging but something to consider we've seen some boat ramps that once parking is full they close and uh so there could be some of those Alternatives as well as to as things get twofold you know you just don't allow any more boats to launch until spaces become available um something to consider as well that's my three commissioner uh thank you mayor uh the mayor was asking the difference between the floating docks and fixed docks and why uh we you weren't recommending them along and I'm going to get my the NCL on the walls uh weren't and I believe part of that conversation was about ADA and so my question is is where does Ada come into play at the marina in docks as far as the finger docks do they have to be ADA Compliant why do some docks have to be ADA Compliant and some docks don't so I can answer that or I can yeah please so the the the Ada has uh certain percentages of docks that need to be Ada accessible based upon a table of you know one through 25 boats you have to have X number of accessible docks and as you get more and more slips um the percentage just go down a little but there's a certain number that you have to have that are accessible and so um at the end of the day if the dock is fixed um and you can roll right off of land everything is pretty much accessible as long as you have the width of the dock that you need um and the minimum is a 5ft dock adjacent to an accessible slip so the um you can maneuver and turn around whether it be wheelchair or any other needs for persist um the floating docks um the ramps provide that accessibility down as long as they have certain slopes and then in these plans we've identified certain docks to have 5 foot um wide docks adjacent to them um mainly along the main walkway so um if we go back to like the floating do preference right there where you have the black ramps going down there's that white ramp running along the wall That's 8 ft wide so any of the slips along there automatically can be considered accessible slips on the outer T's we made those a little wider so that the ones that are adjacent to them could also be in so the percentages are met here um but it really was more about loss of boat counts by going to the walls okay thank you very I you guys just didn't understand it so thank you very much so not every finger dock on in the marina need needs to be 88ct percentages okay now when it comes to the difference between fixed or floating it seemed to me the impact is marginal but is there a difference in which one we choose as to the total number of slips that we have in the marina so for the floating went too far didn't I so for the floating dock um we have 163 slips that could be available and you can see that the use is you know 560s 1650s 1245 and so on if I go here to the fix stock the numbers change slightly so the number of 30 foot slips on a fix dock are at 62 but they're at 55 on a floating um so with the floating dock I have 20 fixed dock I have 20 8 25 ft slips we we increase the number of 25 ft slips when you go to floating in order to accommodate some of the ramp system so the number of total slips doesn't change but the size of some of the mixes does change um so and a lot of it has to do with like for instance here at Doc C to get down to Doc C you've got that large black ramp there I had to widen out the floating dock in that area so that you can loop around to walk to those boats where on the fix stock option we don't have that you can just walk straight out and then now they're all 30s all the way down as you can see in that graphic so some of them mixes change okay and right and when we talk about the current versus proposed number of slips right that does does take into account right we're going to if we mess with our ramp we're going to lose two slips no no no the boat ramp um does not affect the slips is that the loss of the slips in Casey correct me if I'm wrong the loss of the slips is number one by the width of the slips so that is the biggest contributing factor is every we added a foot basically to most of the slip sizes so that was the biggest loss the second um biggest loss is the increase in the finger Piers the third is adding the captain's walks and that really the captain's walk was more Fairway in the depth of the um the slips so it's more about slip Matrix um but moving the the boat ramp um in that configuration um and it shifting to the Fairway and how the um he's recapturing some of the space that we currently use for the floating docks um and kind of moving that to the South for where those four slips are there for them to queue um but the boat ramp realignment was not a major contributing factor to loss of slips okay and I didn't consider if it was two I didn't consider two a major impact on those um but certainly the width of the finger slips do play a role in the size of the slip or the reduction of slips it does okay all right and is there a reason why we're going uh cuz I'm looking at least I can't don't know what page I'm on but we're going from 18 to 24 in in a finger width to 36 yeah so there there again some of them are tied to Industry standards um there's you know rules of thumb that you use and I can't say they're codes but they're just you know best practices and when you get into very narrow 24in wide slips um you know even talking with the floating dock suppliers they they don't provide fingers wider than 24 sorry W narrower than 36 in for boats larger than the 25- Ft slip so I'm actually using 24t fingers which is not part of the industry standard for 25t vessels because the number of people that go on 25 the size of the gear and a lot of those things go down so scalable wise when you start getting into larger boats you start getting into larger needs but the rule of thumb is the 36 I mean we can look at going narrower um it it just gets into convenience and if you're looking to modernize your Marina and provide more convenience it's just recommended to go at the larger width as a matter of fact for even larger boats 50s and 60s it's recommended to go to 5 foot but we kept them down to 36 because we just didn't want to keep on eating away at that and I did notice that as well and I was wondering how much more a bigger boat needed to carry but I didn't want to yeah yeah the rules of thumb are my cooler I think would stay the same with but maybe it wouldn't I don't know you'd have someone loading your refrigerator for you so exactly uh but back to the reduction of 25 ft in the addition to the 30t uh what is the current weight list how long is that weight list on the 25 there are currently 14 people on the 25t weight list and how many are on the 30 there are 36 36 okay and so commissioner can I add one aspect to that Lori how many 30 foot slips do we own or have 40 we have 46 slips but 36 people on the wait list right and we have 95 65 sorry 65 25 foot slips but only 14 people on the weight list we have some weight list what with for if you go to 50 the 50ft weight list 25ps we have 25 slips but 30 people on the wait list so as the sizes increase we have some weight lists that we have more we have more people on the weight list than we have slips so that kind of when we had this discussion the demand of people that are sitting on these weight lists for years and years and years and just never being able to get in the marina is one of the other aspects that if we were going to reduce the number of slips in a particular size we really did not want to see that hit in that 35 to 50 foot range because or 30 to 50 because that's where we we we have this huge weight list that we can't accommodate now right and okay I but at some point we have to say we can only accommodate what we can accommodate and we've got no control over the size of the boat the resident buys right um and so my just thought is you talked about the rapid turnover of the 25 ft boat owner in that slip yes and that with that rapid turnover we still have a weight list and so I'm wondering and we have a weight list at the 30 so if we decrease the 25 ft we're still going to have a weight list if we increase the capacity of the number of 30 foot slips we're still going to have a weight list yeah but it lessens them it lessens the weight it it it it lessens them but but I but at some point those 30t slips that we think are now going to be occupied by the 20 5ot slip if I'm that if I'm first on the weight list as a 30ft owner and that 25 fot because they turn over rapidly moves out I move in I'm a 30-ft boat owner I'm going to lock in there longer and so I'm eventually although we're the concept is is because of the turnover the 25 ft they're going to be more available at the 30t and my belief is is that regardless at some point the 30 foot because we have a weight list of 30 foot it's going to fill up and so all that we're actually doing at the end of the day whether it takes 3 months 6 months a year two years we're reducing the number of 25 ft slips thereby reducing the number of 25t boat owners that have accessibility to the marina at the end of the day the 30 foots are just going to take it and I heard mention that they're making boats bigger and my question is is are they making boats bigger or are we just buying bigger boats I I probably should have used the word wider um more than bigger it's it's more the width I mean an old 21t boat could fit into your 9t slip and not really struggle a new 21t boat it's a little bit tighter of a squeeze the beams are getting a little larger or becoming more standardized across the certain sizes okay and can I can I add something to you 25 versus 30 mhm we had a 30ft boat 34 30 it was 30 foot wasn't it you were in a 35t slip yeah but we had a 30ft boat so yes it was at least 30 I thought anyway it's been a while um anyway you you couldn't have trailered my boat somebody braver than me maybe and so I I do think that the 25 foot but there is a serious lack of boat ramps in this County and I mean you could go back to early 2000s pelis County was begging for people to create Bo boat ramps that all went away but but there is a serious lack of it and so I think by creating I think you also have to look at by creating a better boat ramp not saying double just saying a better usable one you're going to get those 25 foot people using the boat ramp and less likely to spend the money on those slip that's what I'm saying so you're going to have a balance all the way around I'm not saying it helps the whole thing but a 25t f boat you can trailer if you're skilled you might not want to but you can if you're skilled I yeah but people buy you would not believe how many unskilled people buy a boat oh I know that's and the sizes that they by so and if I may um a considerable amount of people that own vessels under 23 ft upgrade yeah so it gives the opportunity for them to for us to do some switching around potentially um and provide a bigger slip for those owners that want to upgrade their boat into the 30-foot class not the 30ft boat class but the 30 slip class um because of the flexibility it offers if we have if we had to put a smaller boat in a 30ft slip now we can maybe take John Smith that bought a bigger boat and reassign a slip so and if I'm a 25- ft slip runter and I upgrade out of that 25 ft slip where where am I on that let's go to 30t as things happen today yeah you go to the bottom of the weight list you have to as the rules are right now you have to be in the marina for a period of one year before you can be added to a weight list of a different size so um on that 30 foot weight list right now I have three current uh slip Runners that are in 25t slips that are currently waiting for bigger BS um that happens with all of them on the 35- foot weight list we have seven current renters that are wanting to upgrade and they're on the wait list and they don't up and right we don't allow them to up upgrade right until they don't get to go to the front of the line right so they're they're wanting a bigger boat they just have to sit and wait right their their time okay all my my whole concern is the whole affordable housing issue and we're out of control in so many so many ways and places uh a lot of it is outside the control of the city but we can control what we can um and we're are we pushing people out of the marina that are should have equal access to it that that don't and that's my concern I certainly have heard your comments and mayor and you add some validity to that as well yeah uh but just it just the optic of making room for some siiz boats and and doing that pushing out smaller boats and uh you know their their residents as well that's not the intention I I I I get that right that's that's not your goal and I I don't want to apply any sort of that so um but but it is is there um I've got other questions so I don't know whether I take them on until you guys tell me to be quiet or or not I don't well let's take one more round because I mean okay guys we're we're not I have more questions too we said we were going to go to 1:30 and it's 12:30 all I have no I don't have any questions so you know I mean I do but I'm happy to everybody else need I'm just saying if we're going to keep going we're not going to get to the survey is what I'm trying I'm just trying to say I'm fine to do that via Zoom I'm sad that the person had to sit here this whole time but I also don't want to I mean I've been trying to keep copious notes for the consensus I have I have three I haven't had a second round yet right no I know no and I haven't either no I know so what do you want to do Jennifer I and I will step back but well I'm trying to hang on what what Jennifer what do you want to do well uh obviously we have to deal with this item that we have before us now and answer all of your questions I'd prefer for the consultant to present the survey because um it's an excellent survey with great information um um Zoom won't be quite as effective I don't know if he's available via Zoom so um let me talk to the consultant and I'll get back to you all right how many more questions do you have Jeff oh I don't know a handful hurry up but but a lot of it is um you had mentioned somewhere in your presentation you mentioned golf carts and I can't recall where and how you mentioned them but just in reference to the whole parking situation um we already have a parking problem concern and each one so the current existing and all the proposed result in less parking right I believe that's the case one of them went up op one and three both increase parking by one or two spes option number two with the large here right that had a decrease in parking um by about I think 15 spaces right yeah and in and increasing two spaces I don't consider increasing yeah I would agree you know um I I I guess concerns about right we've talked about 10 lb of mud in a 5B bucket and all of this and like a lot of this the problem was is we didn't think far enough ahead right we don't while we have a lot of Shoreline we actually have very little when it comes to Public Access and uh but that should have been dealt with 30 to 50 years ago we just didn't do it not before um and so when it comes to golf carts within your parking plan do we have any consideration for golf cart parking only I did not separate uh specific golf cart parking no I did not um that could be added in probably a couple of locations and studied a bit further but the parking that we're showing and the parking that I summarized in the chart here was specific to regular Vehicles okay and uh is there any number of bike racks that are there we would have bike racks um benches Furnishings those types of things um I did not we're still kind of at the 30,000 ft level so that's the level of detail that I'm just not showing on this plan but the intend because I think both of those items you know if we can encourage and make room for smaller forms of transportation that might alleviate some of the some of the parking for the people that really need to have the parking sure um and really I couldn't tell what there was a difference between parking and permitted parking um so where we didn't um graphically disting distinguish but the intent was although there's some parking shifts based on the option um the intent at least was to keep the same amount of permed parking for the marina which I believe is 52 in whatever option you know if you were to choose one of these options those 52 spaces would be designated just like they are today okay um and I know I've got in here the ve the vehicular use space seems to increase but parking decreases and I think that has large part to do with that roundabout um the vehicular use area increase that you see on on here with option one two and three most of that was because when you look at um the options in a little more detail currently the Park Upland space the Green Space goes all the way there we go currently the the Upland Park the Green Space goes all the way to the edge of the current boat trailer parking so we added in these boat uh trailer queuing lanes and that was a decrease increase in vehicular use area but a decrease in the Park Upland okay and so if if you were to do away with the two ramp Focus right we'd get some we'd reduce some of that vehicular use space then I think by increase our Green Space a little bit I think by a nominal amount um if we were to get rid of these two queuing lanes and and just stick with a concept like um you have today and kept the traffic pattern the same um going through this area and not do these queuing Lanes then that would decrease the vehicle use area yes but you're not solving the problem corre the safety issues correct right right and just while we're on the screen you all the sidewalks in the park here we don't need all that concrete papers so most of those I think are almost already there existing um the new playground is and the extensions out yeah the playground sidewalk some of that is new um based on shifting that playground but a lot of the perimeter stuff is existing but certainly that that's something we could study as far as uh minimizing any extra sidewalk and I do question where that playground is just because we also use that as event space and now where it's 15 lbs of mud into a 5B bucket you know keep uh so that is challenging uh my major concerns and I know I don't have an answer to them but the whole walk space on the North side going out to that Pier I know it's a problem I know it's a parking problem I know it's a pedestrian problem um um uh I I don't know what to do with that I don't know that this is a solution I'm afraid we won't know if it's a good solution until we've already done it and it's going to be yes it worked or no it didn't uh and that that's a concern for me um uh is there any opportunity instead of parking permitted or not permitted but just unloading that accessible to the The Boat Owners the slip Runners that they can at least have a spot to unload yeah so some of so um let me get back to my Mouse um we did have a couple parking spaces over on the side here and that was in the parking count but those could also change from designated parking to designated loading or unloading certainly I think in the concept option number two here with the turnaround that space would provide opportunity for for some amount of unloading of vehicles as well okay and yeah just my personal preference yeah option to no we don't need to encourage people to drive down just to turn around you're just looking for a parking spot so yeah don't even give them that idea cuz then they'll just complain about it uh and I'm was trying to speed up mayor so just okay okay hang on a minute Jennifer you said you had an answer I do and I'm I'm very grateful to Dr Ney for joining us this morning he is able to join us on June 4th via Zoom so if you'd like to just um allow Dr neilly to to uh return to his office and we'll finish finish with the the your questions on the marina this morning and then he'll rejoin us on the 4th of June thank you thank you thank you okay go ahead so don't kill yourself all right um and thank you Dr NE for joining us yes yeah thank you Dr Neely Uh I that that that's it mayor um yeah just in in the light of it the challenge that I have is I'm not a boat owner I'm not a slip runer and so I'm really really for the for the the slips and things I'm trying to listen to the people who use them and what they need I'd rather think smaller than bigger I'm not looking to rebuild the marina just what what you know what what will work for them and and everybody else so that's kind of where my head is uh keeping safety a major issue so thank you here okay thank you this so hang on one a second so you so we have time now we do yes can we take a break then and Donna has arranged for uh lunch for everybody and so I we we can't have a commission that's hangry we don't like that so so yeah we can take a break if you'd like to I I think I'm not sure if the pizza's here yet but we can take a break waiting ask question no well so am I I know but I now that we know we don't have to rush we've doing this for we're hry see got hry I have other reasons to be hangry I'm trying to work my schedule let me go check let me go check I got the vice mayor telling me how to run the meeting now she thinks because she's run two meetings that she can tell me how to do it go ahead Rob thank you vice mayor and mayor just saying maybe maybe maybe maybe maybe not in the order but uh um all right I want to make this quick okay so I uh I know that um the marina was dredged uh right during Co 2020 and was there any assessment done on the current status of the dredging or water depth or anything like that has that factored at all into the master plan because if it's not it should be I have not seen any recent bimetric surveys on it I've seen the Dre the post dredge from back in 2020 21 time frame and the The Depths appeared to be in line with some of the original depths from years ago um we do know that the marina is more shallower this more south ends and as you start progressing towards the end so that's why we kept some of the larger boats towards the deeper waters yeah no I I get that I am a boat owner so I understand that concept um the I just um well here I'll hold that part of it um this this goes into the rough order magnitude um cost that you identified um if a transition from fixed to floating or modification of slip size is going to result in um having to move or reconfigure some of the power pedestals has that been factored into this each of the costs both fixed and floating assume that the power pedestals would be returned to their exact location well to to be able to to function to service all the slips okay um sorry to to equip all the slips yes yeah I'm not okay um 12 if there's a need for Less power pedestals obviously we can adjust the price accordingly um we just made the assumption that all of them would receive Power and Water um just to give it give it an equal balance oh no I you know it's not what I'm saying is is they would have to be moved I I think they would have to be moved if you change the size of the slip or you transition from floating to fixed yes so my question is has that been at least part of the the math that went into the ref order magnitude yes we we we assumed so many dollars a square foot for new utilities to all the slips yeah okay um third question um you know honestly the options one two and three uh one and three really don't change what we have existing um and I I'm going to Echo commissioner G's uh sentiments on golf cart access because right now the golf cart access is it's I I I don't I think it's minimized um and there's there's a lot of golf carts that go out to that Peninsula for Sunset by the boat club so I just want to plant that seed um I the final question I've got is I know that the marina advisory committee was uh briefed on this this last week um is there a plan for a formal report or recommendation from the marina advisory Council yes so we're going to reconvene after today's meeting to come up with what our next schedule of meetings are uh they have had initial discussions amongst themselves of you know their initial reactions to the different options um and then and within the schedule is for Kim Horn to come and have an actual presentation with them specifically so we're going to work on exactly what those dates are but at some point yes the Marine advisory committee will have their recommendations as well okay thank you that's all I've got I've got stuff but I'm going to hold up so we can take the break so how long of a break do we need to do this 10 minutes I think we can eat pizza and salad in 10 minutes sure [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] 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[Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] a [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Applause] I never shove food down in my throat so quickly in my life okay um questions all right questions I didn't see on there um where you were proposing the pump out station let me highlight that here um it's a little faint but um on both options both options show the pump out station at the what I guess is the north side the terminal dock on Doc a here and then also that's where it is right now isn't it and also here it's oh it's on the south side it's on the south side yeah M it's a little more direct access but but not a substantial change from where it is today okay so obviously you don't want to put it on the transient dogs we would not put it on the transit docks it's it's in the marina yeah okay and then I didn't see any thoughts on expanding commercial expanding day dos for the for the day dos um the options are going to be here in that blue location um essentially the the best way to accommodate that would be to extend the fishing pier or do a reconfiguration of the fishing pier to create additional space for that but really the best alternative will also include putting in some kind of a wave attenuation just because of the abuse that those dos I assumed that that some kind of break water or something yes okay there there are some more um unnatural or not natural solutions for utilizing floating docks as an attenuator that can also serve as a floating dock but um we need to look at some of the environmental benefits well this is where this is where the ferry will go in and out right so you know that's been a problem or concern in the past for Ada access to the ferry and the ferry at some point will be bigger than what it is today so it'll have to be over there somewhere so on on this position here from a floating dock perspective and I didn't apologize I didn't go into significant detail on some of the thought that went into this but for a potential fery landing and we look potentially putting a floating dock here with the ramp down that would also Services makes some sense and then convert give you an extra access to the commercial docks as well one from the restaurant side over and around or another would be from the fairy gr so okay and then did you discuss it all um you know there are amenities that marinas offer kind of I mean right now we have the fish market I think you can get ice and but like I don't I don't know that he if he sells bait does he sell bait or anything you know I I'll call it Provisions for a boater you know did you guys discuss any of those kinds of options not you can start not really beyond what is provided today the intent or I guess the thought pretty much nothing is provided today I think ice and nothing oh I'm sorry I misunderstood that then okay um so I mean I would like to see I would like to understand understood okay you know yeah again we're not clear water we're not trying to be clear water but these are our boter and so having some Provisions there would would be nice [Music] um and then I didn't see anything about bathrooms uh so on the restrooms the thought was that um the restrooms that you have today which are here uhhuh would remain in place M um I think one some of the comments again that we heard was that maybe there's some upgrades or some um uh some minor expansion minor expansion or or upgrades to facilities there that could help make those run a little smoother but the intent was to keep those and utilize um okay what you have today but expand on it and you know the terrible thing that nobody said but I'm going to ask it is uh we used to have gas here did you look at that for not look at that in gas now I'm sorry what we did not look at adding gas here no it was one of the questions and I think it ranked very low is one of the the things that they were the voters were looking for it was not one of the if it go back to the survey questions I think it was one of the um not as highly ranked amenities that they were looking for okay all right so I think I have sort of the consensus but I'll go around and let everybody do their sort of final final things we're out of we're done questions I don't know we have more questions I have some questions yeah okay commissioner fry you want to go with your final things um well are we doing questions first or I'm done with questions so I would just well it's up to you okay go ahead with questions John I don't want to step on your Turf man uhhuh I'll try to be quick on this uh how many how many slips are decreased by uh by changing the launch by changing the boat launch um I I think the the shift of the location of the launch and centering it on The Fairway and expanding it from one to two potential launch Lanes did not incre or did not impact the slip count the slip count was really impacted by uh the expansion of the width of the slips as Casey touched on plus the expansion and changes to the uh width of the finger pier and the dock not not the boat ramp there was a good photo in here that I think you just passed it there you go right here um so up to the right of the boat ramp is where the floating dock is located for boat ramp users yes and off to the left are some dbit docks and it's kind of a little bit of an unusual Spade so by Shifting The Boat Ramp over were actually mainly eating up the space that was used for vat ramp users um by overcoming that do and where the davit dock is we added in four slips that would be dedicated to the boat round so so the grand scheme of things you could technically get rid of those and make those run out spaces but then you won't have space for um the boat ramp fusers um so you're losing more dbit area then you are losing um slip area so in concert with that what would happen What would happen if we said we did we didn't want to have any launch area at all what just what what would what would happen what do you suppose might happen to the our capacity um for for rental space in in in the marina so you would uh without having this boat launch area here you would gain back all of this space right here which is four to five slips for rental okay um space at a minimum so not significant not significant um but you would gain I mean on the inside you would gain some potential area for parking and things like that lots of other things you gain yes yes I understand um the the on the on the floating I use the word floating dock on the floating dock for what we call the day dock but that's also what where we have the ferry so I think there's two different two different uses of that um I'm just wondering did you did you consider um the the activity of the of the of the FL of water again and how it might affect the the capacity for the ferry over a period of time not for the use of the ferry the ferry wouldn't come in if it was really rough out there but I'm concerned I'm concerned about those docks until you put a significant uh wave ination system in there it's it's huge out there sometimes so without the wave attenuation you're going to continue to have the the conditions that you're dealing with now um and the current docks are really not intended for large vessels I mean there are some larger vessels that are going in there that really shouldn't be using those docks um our our assumptions through this plan but again it's being fed by your input was is that you know the 180 dock um up here would still be used for the ferry or what could be used for the ferry to get it a little bit away from the area but also the assumption would be that some way ation would essentially be added as part of the long-term master plan if I if I could add to that please commissioner the ferry right now will remain small smaller I'll say which is what we've been having over time and they've been using an actual transient doct to pullo so it's this one right here one of them I don't remember but it but the fact of the matter is is when it does become bigger that's when that wall thing be absolutely just so everybody understands and we don't know when it's going to be I mean that could be three four five years from now we have no idea we also proposed in here that those would be upgraded floating docks as part of this a little bit wider um taking up a little more space you don't end up with as any more floating dot capability there than you currently do which is six but we propos some improvements the challenge that you will have in an area like that is as you start looking looking at replacing the fishing pier or doing modifications you may also look at bringing it up higher to accommodate for more of a resilient thing then you end up with issues with how long the ramps get to access those so there becomes some access issues we'll have to look at associated with that sorry John I just wanted to add no thank you um my my opinion was coming into this meeting from my experience is that a do needs some work soon so does B and and they had been planned to have uh work done to them um if ad do is in is in a condition such that it's fundamentally sound okay the pilings are fundamentally sound it it would almost seem like we could leave a do as a functioning dock the way it is today only rebuild rebuild the dock part of it as quickly as possible because we got to get it seems to me like we have to be we have to stay ahead of what's happening with a and in in in C do it did you get the same did you get the same impression of the of the usability of the dock for our for our residents well I I kind of feel like you're in a situation where you're looking at a more larger picture of where you want to be when you grow up I guess um that if the docks are going to shift and James alluded to this as well and his conversation earlier um if you are going to move the docks that you should do them simultaneously with the improvements that you're expecting and so if if the ad do should need to shift based on these Master plans to accommodate different things replace the piles replace everything and go to the long-term plan and not do a shortterm Improvement that will eventually get undone and relocated at a later date um so I think it should be a a phased plan as we presented with new equipment in the in the proposed Final locations thank you I have an opinion about that but I will that's for that's for a later date reuse I appreciate that I appreciate that comment a l that's that would be that's the ideal most certainly first costs are important to me I don't like to see them getting or lost costs are important to me I don't want to see them get lost but to your point on the that you can reuse and reframe things the piles are in reasonable shape but they are old and so you're not going to get the life out of them that you would desire um versus just building out a brand new facility the reason why I brought that up is is then that that takes care of a do as quickly as what we could so we can move to B and C which need work yeah um I'm concern I am concerned about the uh the fairways um the other thing I I I I wanted to ask this question has Parks or uh and someone asked a question about the marina but B to finance Andor the boat club um have they seen or given any impact or input to this do we do we know no I mean I know the boat club half of them are up north right now um having some fun um I don't know where the board of Finance is not move meeting till tomorrow not to my knowledge Len I yeah so I'm meeting with them tomorrow um just at this very high level conceptual stage just so they can kind of get their feet wet with the the conversations no the answer is no they haven't they they have not yet okay thank you thank you um those are the those are the basic questions that I have I have opinions after that thank you thank you thank you Jeff any other questions uh I don't know if it's a question or maybe a comment but given we're talking about the marina and we are talking about the Marine quite some time even had to take lunch uh and uh we have a hope spot that's out there uh there's ever growing concern about sea level rise climate change sea grasses oyster beds uh living shorelines nitrogen levels all of that sort of stuff if there isn't an opportunity somewhere out there or maybe the harbor Masters building somewhere to have some sort of Hope spot Marines Science Center or something that acknowledges um that we are a Coastal Community we're not a beach town and we're concerned about storm water runoff we're concerned about nitrogen levels we're concerned about the quality of the water in St Joseph's sound and we could run summer camps out of it we could partner with Tampa Bay Estuary um give them access if they need something a little farther north to run experiments or something we would just have something out there in the community that says the plants are flag and what we care about our environment that's it I have no further questions comments all right well let's uh I don't have it's not really a question but I would like to understand because this is a master plan um and master plans are again like I said before are longterm so you don't have to get into it here today but this is sort of next steps I really would I know you said 50 million I'm not convinced of that um but I would like to understand see I see the other side of the boat club as something a little bit different a I don't want to affect the bat club B they have a huge sailing program and I I think there could possibly be some infrastructure there for that um you know while we're doing this we might as well think big and possibly a few extra slips there so not quite what you were showing but you know they people have been looking for a Sailing Center people have been looking for sailing infrastructure maybe it's just docking I know we have our tiny little house I don't know but while we're while we have you I just feel like maybe we should take a look at that so okay final comments and then I'll try to give some consensus Direction vice mayor okay I'm going to try to follow my notes which ISS but um I have concerns about the playground sorry I have concerns about the playground being moved and you know I'm just I'll read a couple statements that I had down here you know need the plan that takes 10B bag and puts new updated most efficient 10 pounds in it you know what I'm saying so like I think sometimes it's a master plan and We're Dreaming but we can't have everything and as I've been told by many boers since the health center You Know It's a Small Town Marina and we obviously want a premier Small Town Marina but it's still a Small Town Marina and and um and I'm not sure how we expand it without either environmentally doing some things that's against what we believe in or adding to parking problems so that's but you know hey I this is an open field and I'm open-minded but just some thoughts um I had um um balance plan with the Right Mix fiscally sustainable environmentally responsible and environmentally stain sustainable I mean I think all those play into this about you know understanding that what we want to look at is I think we need we're going to need somewhere in this an exercise that's all about all the things we want to have and all the tradeoffs realistically we have to weigh against each other for the importance of what I think are the two most important things which is the boating community of Florida with the marina but also the amenities and the park that that are belong to the rest of the citizens as well so um you know those are just my thoughts I certainly agree with trying to create a little more golf cart friendly pedestrian friendly um things out there just for safety um and um and certainly want to understand more about the boat ramp and how that that actually plays to our residents and our needs and and and it makes sense to me that that's not the best boat ramp I mean yeah and never has been so um yeah I I think those are my statements so thank you and Ada is important appreciate the comment and Ada we don't want to do anything in this city without understanding that we're providing for people that have disabilities thank thank you um I would like to see us at some point in time really sit down and and answer the question what do we what do we really want this Marina to be when we all grow up or when the marina grows up uh what do we want what do we really want it to be rather than having a be everything trying to have it be everything for everything and we know we're filling this this this place up significantly I would like to make sure that anybody visiting this area um that's certainly a resident can come down there and can and can have the experience of of uh of the water of a waterfront experience um on a deck like we have there um to fish and whatever so they don't have to have a boat in there it's it's the service to our residents I certainly don't want I I am very supportive of the park down there and I wouldn't want to see the park affected negatively by this I think there's a few assets that we have in there that that we may have to figure out a way to have have be kept better perhaps the heads ET set the restrooms uh down there um I would like I would like for us to begin to focus a little bit on some of the costs of this because somebody's going to pay for this and and not how you find Finance it but how do you pay for it and who's going to pay for it well it's an Enterprise fund so that means the people are going to be are going to have their boats attached down there and uh some of this going to come as probably a pretty big shot um just just if we put the ination system in there it's very very expensive so I think we have to make sure that we get very very realistic very very quickly about this um and and realize that we're not going to be able to add all kinds of amenities in there um perhaps that's not the purpose perhaps the purpose is to get as many boats as we can in there um and maybe we need to maybe we need to start limitin on some some of the larger boats um the most popular boat sizes right now are between 35 and I'm sorry 25 and and and 40 foot um a lot of 25 still trailer their boats um Can trailer the boats so you know maybe maybe we have to put some of that kind of a limitation in there to make sure that we get not only not only the the amount of boats that we can put in there but but the depth requirements for the boats this is a shallow side the other side is on the Atlantic side that's the Deep Side um lots of lots of Marines have issues about about depth and so we we do need to look at drafts Etc and understand that uh we just can't be everything to everything everybody we we need to do we need to do it as good as good of a job as what we can for as many residents as what we can so I would like to see us really sit down and answer that question before we go very much further what do we want to be what do we want this to be and for whom adding some of the amenities I can pick up my ice someplace else uh honestly I can could not that not that we couldn't have it down there fuel is somebody might ask for fuel we don't even use enough fuel our fuel will become stale and that's the worst thing you can have in a marinas have stale fuel um we don't have enough really to have a diesel uh facility there uh in my opinion if we stay in that if we stay in the smaller size so we re we really need to know what we want to be before we can go any further it's my opinion thank you my input Jeffrey oh thank you mayor um you don't I'm not a big fan of where the playground is proposed to go is and if there is a way to do this is there a way to make those adjustments to the ramp sooner as far as making it shallow I don't know what that sooner so we have an idea of the impact of that as far as the demand goes and then that might play into whether or not we want an additional ramp whether we want um then to change the queuing the way it's set up now and what that looks like not that it needs to be phase one but sooner right now I think it's phase four for the ramp and then phase six for the playground and I don't know while that's phrases the phases are next to each other I don't know the timeline is that 6 months or is that 2 years is that enough time I don't know and I think finance will play a role in that so I'm not sure when it takes into effect but just keep that in mind that to give enough time to go hey it's not worth it or it is worth it or whatever um and I don't know what that means to the playground but you too much concrete there and it interrupts event space I want the I want I would like the marina uh to stay reflective of who we are as a community uh and what that looks like we've certainly always been a Coastal Community we've always had access and wanted access to the water that's important what that looks like um affordable housing concerned about that and what that is that reflective in the marina uh and then just uh i' I'd rather do it in small increments to make sure we're we're doing it right I used to be a big fan of expanding it I I think I'm changing my mind now so I'm thinking smaller less impact on the environment uh impact on on our Waters so acknowledging that uh we can't be everything to everybody and so let's let's be genuine let's be who we are uh thank you mayor commissioner yes yeah two things I wanted to just uh reinforce or emphasize uh one is the mayor said um you know we should be thinking bigger not bigger in size but more more scope um I think there I think that's the thing that's missing for me on this is is that um I I think we're addressing well this is a tough one but we're we're addressing the near-term issues but it would be good if we had a more of a visionary approach and I think that's what commissioner torer was saying as well and I want to uh emphasize those two points um the other part um I also want to emphasize the fact that you know I asked the question earlier with regards to funding sources and grants um you know we really really need to canvas and leave no Rock unturned with regards to how we do that because at the end of the day the marina is one of the gems in the crown and um I you know when I'm on the ferry and I point off in the distance to the guests that are um are on the boat I tell them you know you need to visit Denon and oh by the way I point to the the Copper Top building and say that is the heart of downtown which is the south end of the marina and so um so I I think um just kind of a couple couple of details on this I don't think we need a second ramp uh I think the mayor said it I think that we need to build it correctly I am really skeptical of the plan to do two queuing lanes uh because that Alt 19 base Shore is too congested um and uh finally the the options presented 1 two and three uh there's not a heck of a lot difference between Option 1 three and the existing structure in terms of parking and I think that's what we were trying to address and the other thing is is you know I uh I I have a lot we have we have a lot in the community that go use that that access way to the peninsula to watch the sunset I I'm totally not in favor of blocking golf cart access on that um and and I just want to confirm the next steps on this I um the next steps basically we're going to take this presentation and we're going to distill this down to the a set of prioritized projects is that my understanding correct I think you were I think they were coming back to us after they heard what we had to say going out for a second round okay perfect so we will see this again perfect okay not NE even for just conversation not necessarily for approval right gotcha okay uh this is our first round no understood yeah thank you thank you for that clarification uh yeah otherwise that's that's what uh that's all I've got May okay so I didn't hear anybody saying they likeed the idea of anything but option one as far is the pass through traffic sorry I didn't I don't think anybody wants that blocked off I did not hear anybody say that and I and I when you look at it I think you all agree we need every access because you have a special event there all people are going to be doing is going into that parking lot and turning around because that's what they do with Waltz events and it's dangerous it's all get out cuz I work those events and I watch it it's cluster you know what um so I I think we have to keep the thoroughfare um the ramp I don't think any of us see really the need for the double ramp um I think keeping it as single I think what I'm hearing from everybody is just fix what we have just fix what we have and make it good make it right even if we do lose a slip or two um it's been a problem since the day we build it I hear it from my family all the time mayor when you can to do something about that boat ramp um the 19 stacking I think we're all all 19 I think we're all worried about it I I would just ask Jennifer and you all and our traffic experts on staff and Lai and ly you know see if you can come up with a way to figure out how it wooden stack up cuz I I think we all agree that you know the boats going alongside the water stacking is not necessarily safe on a busy weekend you know and if if there is a special event there well then they can't get through but if it's over from this Direction they can you know what I'm saying so but I agree I I think we all agree it's going to stack up on Alt 19 and that's a really bad area for that to happen and just add to that just to make sure a big concern about chopping away the rest of the park moving playground out you know yes know it's it's not a huge Park to begin with no okay I mean we didn't talk a lot about it but we said the Harbor Master building this is really more towards Jennifer and the team you you've made the structural suggestions I think we would like to know what are the other suggestions is there a way to make it ADA Compliant you know is there a way to make it look better is there a way to make it easier access easy easier easily accessible to people whatever I'm just I know that's not necessarily your study but I think we we might as well look at it all doesn't mean we're going to do it right what I heard from everybody on the floating docks you're kind of recommending the middle of the road the floating docks on a and c and transient and the wall docks being fixed and the floating docks are um while they may be more expensive they they have a much longer life don't they I mean isn't that the point yes I mean with the right selection of floating docks well I did I did if if I may I didn't mention as well I I pointed to it but if you look at the picture in elect left I just want everybody to be aware yeah of what you're going to get with the FL that's what that's what they have a cal we're all used to that those those pilings will be standing taller than your walls so you'll be looking through the pilings that's what they have a calc okay same thing we're all used to that okay um so I didn't hear total anybody totally against that mixed thing did I but I I do want to understand the the tide slide thing you know if that's a viable option or if that's doesn't make sense so yeah I'll definitely look into it and be prepared to show you some stuff on that and bring back the the life mhm a life of a floating dock versus the life of a fixed dock because I mean I get it when you're looking at 350,000 versus 1.2 million but then if you're looking at 10 or 20 years longer life well then it might be W I don't know anything I've ever seen IND or less or less what less life less life less but with the concrete ones they have longer life than the aluminum ones well you're going to tell us hold that back I will so that we understand what we're really talking about and the other piece that I didn't mention was regarding the seaw walls I mean the seaw walls are not being recommended to be replaced right now but they will from a resiliency standpoint as you start moving towards raising your seaw wall Heights and things like that these walls are not designed for those higher Heights so having the fixed stocks there is probably we just have to modify the entrances as as the walls do go up uh the day dos and the Breakwater um I don't think anybody's for it or against it at this point from what I've Remembered in the last three studies that we've had and I don't know our last city engineer Tom Burke everybody has said we need a break water everybody has said that that it will help our Marina it will help the attenuation it's not just for the day Docks but it is for that smashing of the a do and the Harbor Master building and everything else so I think it what did it say on the list it's uh 2.7 million I mean I think we need some more information about how long that might take to get you know that's a that's a permit thing that's at least two or three years permitting and what does that take um um because that once we come back and finalize this you're going to have to give us our staff or you or both they're going to have to give us a time frame right just like commissioner Tonga said how are we paying for it well you know hopefully penny for penis will be approved in 2017 and you know I'm not saying that's where it's going to come from I'm just saying we're in 2024 so and you're talking about expansion no I'm talking I was talking about that wave attenuator oh okay no I'm not talking about I'm just saying but that wave of attenuation affects affects the ferry that we're working on and the plans for that I mean it affects everything and if we would want to expand those day dos or rebuild that Pier so I think we need to understand more about that and what it would take and how you guys feel about it versus you guys who are looking at it and saying yeah you could do this we need our we need our other people to say yeah we can do it kind of thing make sense to everybody um uh I think you've heard concern from everybody about the park configuration nobody likes that playground in the middle of the event space it needs it needs to move but you also don't want it too close to a bunch of boats going by so it just needs to move over somewhere and maybe it's you know back over behind the bathrooms and someone so mayor if I me the consensus is not in the middle of the park that's the not in the middle no because that's the event space okay some some place in the periphery yeah and I think those things are tied I mean where the playground moves you know how how the traffic would go out to all 19 but again not eating away at the park right how much are we willing to eat away again tradeoffs right um and then I I would like our team to spend some time talking to the boat club about sailing infrastructure we're going to look at anything I mean I know we have the the the cram shed I know that's not what we're calling it today but it'll always be the pram shed to me um I just want to understand that because if you're going to look at something like that you might as well look at it now doesn't mean we're going to do it and you know if there is something that can be done well then you might be able to fit five or 10 more slips along with it I don't know I certainly think huge expansion we have no parking for that we don't and then you heard what everybody said about golf car parking um did I get do you think I reset everything did I say everything John that you covered I think so so we're not saying that we agreed all this we're just saying there's some consensus and some concern all right let's also we've got some people here from the public I forgot about you even though I've been staring at you the whole time did you guys want to come up and say anything Harold showmaker I'm have a boat in the Mariner I'm with the boat club I've been on The Advisory board so uh you they've made a comment about having 10 pounds of stuff in a 5B bag what we're doing is just shuffling the bag up and we're really not changing anything I like the comment of saying what are we doing why are we doing it needs to be addressed the answer is is there's some updates that need to be done to the marina docks and that needs to be the primary thing that gets addressed with with all of this great plan long term I don't think we have the ability to implement all of this because we just don't have the space but it's like we said we're a small town uh we don't want to be clear water we don't want to be East Coast I think uh we just need to address what needs to be done thank you anybody [Applause] else yeah Terry Hopkins uh hi Mr Terry good to see you all again and uh I I had several notes there I think most of them have always been mentioned I think that the one thing that kind of sticks in my mind is that as a b Club member I'm going to have to uh say that uh how are you going to pay for all this it's an Enterprise Zone that we're in there and if you're going to knock out 28 people paying say 100 Grand a year uh that's going to have to be paid by somebody and then you're going to do all these improvements uh that's going to be a big number so it's like $10 million yeah you spread that out over hundred and something people that's a lot of money that's a lot of money so we're we're spending $10 million to redo our pool I'm just saying it's not and that's coming from penny for penel sorry design and arpa's taking care of some of that let me correct myself she's about to jump on me down there um but do you see what I'm saying that I know that's not an Enterprise fund I know a million I don't think any of us would put that on the backs of the slip owners a million dollars here a million dollars there pretty soon you're talking about some real money yeah now I get it all right thank you that that was the end of my comments thank you mayor yes ma'am may I just want to be really clear that we're not talking about $10 million on the backs of the slip renters not that's what I'm trying to say so really though I mean as far as a finance plan goes it this is this is a step by step by step very methodical it we hear you loud and clear you want to know much more about that but I don't want the slip renders to think that any decision's been made or that that even the the the brunt of this is going to be born of this entire master plan is going to be born by the slip renters in any way shape or form so thank you this is just setting and and the thing is is that the Marina has we keep not addressing the things that are bothersome there or that need to be improved for this very reason well it's an Enterprise fund and the slip rers don't want to pay for it well that's why we have other funding sources so I mean I I think you it's a huge Capital amenity to our community that affects not just Boat Owners we just invested what $6 million we're investing $6 million into the golf club you see what I'm saying the golfers aren't paying for it it's the same thing it's an it's a amenity to our community that's used by many many people so I think we're trying to look at it for all of those reasons but I think the point that's being made too I'm just saying cuz I'm getting a little uncomfortable up here it is a big number it and we're responsible to be fiscally responsible however we balance out the cost to the boat owners and the rest of the community no I I get that I get that I just I get all that okay uh and then Jennifer you'll figure out how we pay for it certainly look at all the project she figured out this last for this this Penny we figured out quite a bit to have AR money though so yes we were that's why we survived it okay that we do all right so do you guys Jennifer and gentlemen and ladies do you all feel like you have the consensus of where we are right now and what we're waiting on to see further we do yes gentlemen feel good thank you for all the hard work and thanks to my colleagues for sticking around and thank you for lunch thank we are adjourned I wasn't [Music] [Applause] [Music] even e