[Music] [Music] [Music] everybody today um the uh I will say mayor bajowski is ill today uh I think it's just a horrible cold she didn't want to get the rest of the world sick so she's probably watching um but anyway we wish her well and if I could before we even start the meeting could I just get a um do I have to wait till the meeting starts to actually get the or the accused absence okay so can I just okay I'll start the meeting so so we're call to order and we're going to do our Pledge of Allegiance and I'd asked Jennifer Cohen to lead us I pledge Alle to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible Liberty justice for all thank you Jennifer uh now I would ask for um a motion for an excuse absence for mayor roelski move second all in favor I'm sorry I just wanted that hesitation and the motion passes yes she is excused so and we're glad she didn't get us sick today so we appreciate it um okay so we have our first presentation and uh for the drinking water Proclamation May 5th through the 11 2024 I'm going to turn that over to commissioner Walker thank you and I see we have lots of water guys back here to come up so so my in my opinion every week should be drinking water week and um with that said could we get the water department up here front and center that's a good looking group I just want to know who's mining the water right now here okay all right well uh it's that my privilege and honor to to read this Proclamation drinking water week May 5 through May 11 2024 whereas water is our most valuable natural resource and whereas drinking water serves a vital role in daily life serving an essential purpose in health hydration and high hygiene needs of our citizens rely upon and whereas the city of denan has considered the health environment and social impact of ensuring the facilities and systems provide citizens with a safe Dependable quality and quantity of water both now and for future needs and whereas water service is essential for public health fire protection support of our economy and the quality of life we enjoy and whereas the hard work performed by our water SE employees from designing capital projects to operators ensuring the safety and quality of drinking water and technicians maintaining reliable distribution and transmission infrastructure which our community relies upon for highquality drinking water from its source to Consumer Taps is recognized and whereas we are all stewards of the sustainable water infrastructure which future Generations Depend and whereas Denita residents and water customers are called upon to help protect our source Waters from pollution and to practice water conservation now therefore I Robert James Walker by virtue of authority vested in Me by the mayor city of denan Florida and on behalf of the entire city commission do hereby Proclaim May 5th through May 11th 2024 as drinking water week in the needed and urge all citizens to join with representatives of the American Waterworks Association and government agencies in activities and events designed to pay tribute to our public utility professionals Engineers managers and employees and to recognize the substantial contributions they make to protect our most valuable natural resource thus advancing the quality of life for all [Applause] control well time well time good morning um morning commission city manager everyone um I'm Nan Bennett utilities proud utilities director um this is a a really good time for us to highlight what these people do 247 365 days a year behind the scenes and to make sure that we have clean safe drinking water coming to every single tap in the city of dun Eden so thank you very much I think you said most of what I have written here in the proclamation more graciously than I could have but I wanted you to get a chance to see a a few of the people that provide that service to the city and and support the city in that way Nan Nan just one second too I say this a lot but I can't say it enough um when I started here as a staff person late n or late 80s 0 early '90s um the water was a crisis in Den both the plant and the lines and um I mean and it was huge I mean there was just rust coming out people were you know they they do white clothes and it would be rusty clothes and um so I always say you don't really care about Marty gr and you don't really care about all the things that we love about our city quality life if you turn you know your water spout on and you got dirty water I mean so Basics are critical they're important and we never want to go back to a point where we you know don't keep up and I'm so proud of our water department I mean because again I think since that time since learning of that the leaders stood up but you guys are the backbone of that and and it's such an important basic service so thank you thanks a lot nan oh not so deal thought we were going to sneak out yeah yeah get close get get get nice and close everybody get okay tighten up while you like each other I I need a taller photographer okay I think I can see everyone take we say water clean [Applause] water thank you Nan thank you everybody okay we're going to go to Citizens input and I'm going ask if anyone in the audience wishes to speak on a topic that is not on today's agenda U if you want to come forward okay seeing no one I'll close that out uh and so we'll go to consent agenda and the consent agenda we have approving the minutes of March 7th uh March 19th and March 21st we also have the Cinco Deo celebration revocable license agreement and so I would uh is there anything to be pulled and so can I have a motion to approve the consent agenda so moved second all in favor the motion passes unanimously do I need to ask for public input on that and was there any public input on anything to do with the consent agenda okay thank you okay we're going to move to the proposed agenda for April 30th 2024 and I'm going to ask if there's any changes and Michelle was there anything that you needed to say about this yes ma'am I have one change we're asking to move the workshop item to an action item that's the auditor selection committee I believe we'll be bringing a resolution with that therefore it needs to be moved to action okay we also have an addition that somehow did not make it on the proposed although it should have that's the city of deden comprehensive vulnerability assessment approval of 24 pln1 Grant agreement okay um okay any comments from the commission changes um okay then I'd ask if uh there is a motion to approve the agenda second all in favor I the motion passes unanimously okay thank you and then we're going to go to our Workshop items that was fast guys okay we just cranking along okay if the mayor's watching I think she'd find that pretty interesting mayor as uh vice mayor as uh Les and Ashley get set up can I frame this agenda item a little bit for you that would be great okay and of course the item is eligible arpa City projects initiatives updates so go go ahead city manager thank you vice mayor good morning vice mayor and Commissioners and and mayor on TV um so so this particular item uh we're not looking for direction from the city Commission in particular in regards to the arpa funding you may recall back in February of 2022 we looked at all of our arpa projects uh and allocations for those projects and that plan was approved by the city Commission uh incrementally during that uh since that time you have been um approving some projects that we incorporated with uh within the arpa for example the Washington uh Street project we felt though that that at this point we want you to have a look at it and answer any questions that you may have on oura given it's been a couple years since we looked at the entire comprehensive program and we have during that time submitted some budget adjustments to you approved to all of you as well but again I want to I wanted you to have a look at the entire um program that we have put together uh that you have approved and um and answer any questions that you may have but as I said we're not you know this is not an approve or don't approve or or it's more of an informational item thank you vice mayor thank you very much okay so we'll go to staff presentation thank you Commissioners uh L TI the finance director uh as Jennifer mentioned this item is an update of our American Rescue plan at 2021 projects and initiatives I'd like to introduce uh two people we have on Zoom today that are here for technical assistance that may come up we have Matthew Hansen uh an associate managing director with Widow Brian's and also Ryan vergera a senior fiscal excuse me Les I'm sorry but my screen is not on ISS okay but I mean everybody else's uh uh screen is showing the this is black mine's black so I just didn't want to get too far into it without yeah do you want to check and see if there's something obvious of all the screens not of course not I could move over to my former seat but I guess they knew that the mayor was ill and just blacked it out right let me move this here we go so we did get a break commissioner Walker here we go okay all right so Les I apologize go ahead okay great uh and uh we have uh Ryan vgar a senior fiscal adviser with Widow Bryan with us today also on Zoom uh Widow Brian's been working with us since November of 2021 uh helping us with arpa eligibility financial reporting and technical assistance uh with the arpa funding and our agenda today is basically to go over uh some general uh arpa overviews some of the requirements for arpa status of the projects that we have that are have arpa funding and then commission Direction and next steps moving forward I wanted to mention that there's there's two exhibits that are in the staff report today uh first is exhibit a which is a status of all arpa projects to date and we'll be going over that in quite a bit of detail through the presentation today and also exhibit B is a is a list of eligible arpa projects and initiatives with a brief description of each project uh in the packet as well for some uh overview and background of arpa uh first it was signed it into law uh March 11 2021 it was a $ 1.9 trillion Aid package that provided financial assistance to uh families governments businesses schools nonprofits and others impacted by covid-19 uh event um there was 350 billion for state and local governments within that package and the key points in this slide are that we had the 350 billion uh for state and local governments which is the funding source that that we fell under uh cities and counties received $13.2 million billion dollars excuse me penel County received an allocation of 189.390 of 18.3 million uh the the grant fundings uh funds were paid to us in two two payments we received our first payment in October of 2021 for 9,145 th000 and the second payment for 9 9,145 th000 was received in August of 2022 by our city uh We've mentioned before I want to mention again that the funds must be encumbered uh or committed by December 31st 2024 for and they must be fully spent by December 31st 2026 local governments including cities are required to provide periodic reporting uh on the Grant and uh our finance department has been working with Whit O'Brien and we and we together file quarterly reports and we've been filing those reports since April of 2022 and we will continue to do that through the end of the grant period December 31st 2026 uh this is the eligible use and categories uh in the fiscal recovery funds and when Arbor first was rolled out in 2021 there were seven categories uh but the US Treasury over time has the programs evolved over time and they provided more information and guidance to Grant recipients and now there's 10 categories and I'll just briefly go through these uh the first seven are the same as as they were uh back a couple years ago number one was support public uh Health expenditures address negative economic impacts caused by the public emergency covid-19 servicing the hardest sick communities and families number three number four was to provide premium pay to essential workers number five is to invest in water sewer and Broadband infrastructure number six is revenue replacement with a standard allowance of to $10 million in this category number seven is just joural Administration and uh the new ones added were number eight uh natural disasters number nine surface transportation and number 10 uh Title One type projects uh for the I want to mention for the revenue Replacements uh category number six uh We've we've mentioned this uh from time to time over the through the budget process last year this category uh allows arpa funds to be used for government services up to $10 million that's very broad it could be spent on uh uh uh nearly nearly any general government expense uh except for a few exclusions that will go over in a minute but government services is the most flexible use category that we have under the arpa funding and the funds are subject to streamline reporting and also uh streamline compliance requirements now these are the ineligible uses of arpa and these have been the same uh since it was rolled out in 21 there's been no changes uh first they do not want you to offset re uh reductions in Revenue in taxes uh and also do not want you to deposit into Pension funds funding Debt Service uh funding legal settlements or judgments or deposits into a rainy day fund or financial reserve and now I'd like to roll into the status of our our arpa projects and initiatives but before we go over the projects I'd like to briefly go over some of the 24 budget adjustments that the city manager mentioned earlier that we've had uh thus far you know from October uh to date this year uh and and and we on this slide before you we've got uh we've got the projects uh name and the purpose and then we've got the commission date that it was discussed the uh and so anyway this is the the uh the first two are new projects the first two are a Washington Street drainage Improvement project and a Toronto Blue Jay's PDC irrigation augmentation study those are new and were added in 2024 and the majority of these other adjustments are for uh mainly transferring funds from one project to another and the largest of which is and and we discussed this through a lot during the Skinner Boulevard project when that was presented a few months ago uh we moved approximately 2985 million of arpa funds from the Highlander Aquatic Complex to the Skinner Boulevard project we did that because we knew that the the construction of the pool was going to be done later than Skinner so due to the timing of encumbering the funds we move those dollars from one project to another uh and so we and what we did was we left the design costs on the Aquatic Complex and moved the rest of the dollars to the uh uh Skinner whe of our project and for General project status we've we we've taken the the projects and and put them into three different categories and the first is completed projects that will and that'll be the next slide we'll walk through the completed projects then we have a slide showing the arpa funded projects that are fully encumbered and committed as of March 19th 2024 that's sort of our cut off uh then then we'll have a slide that will be a list of the arpa arpa projects that are either partially committed or encumbered or the project has not started uh to date and uh and there's been no money spent on it as of March 19 2024 uh big picture I I want to mention that in exhibit a in the Staffing it uh it shows uh all the projects and it shows that we've spent $7.1 million actual actual expenditures $7.1 million of our $18.3 million in arpa funds we've also encumbered 5.6 million so uh so the total of those the total of the spent and the encumbered is 12.7 million which is about 70% of our total arpa funding of 18.3 million that leaves about 5.5 million that's unencumbered uh you know as of as of uh 319 2024 and again that's just a snapshot in time uh so moving to the completed projects uh this shows the projects as of 319 that that have been completed completely and uh if you looked it shows the project name on the left then the project date that it was uh presented to commission or when commission approved this project to move forward as an arpa project and the actual cost incurred it shows uh The Columns to the left and then it shows uh the expenditure category on the far right side and I want to mention a little bit about the expenditure categories U for example if you look at the nonprofit grants the first line item uh that falls under category 2.34 uh negative economic impacts within within the arpa guidance that's the category that it falls under uh to be to be for eligibility uh and that's and that's there's many categories within the guidance but that's the one that project falls under and I also want to point out you see quite a few that are shaded that say Revenue replacement uh that's category 6.1 and that's that's the category that we talked about a little bit earlier that that we can we can have up to $10 million uh they call it a standard allowance and that's the most flexible category that we have within our Opa funding so we put we're putting lots of projects there because we have the ability to do that and it's and it's more flexible and also less audit risk uh down the road if if the city is audited and then we move these projects are uh fully committed and Andor encumbered uh this slide is again as of March 19 2024 uh I want to point out that we one thing we've done is if you look at the second line down the WID O'Brien uh contract we have we have a contract with whd O'Brien uh for $361,000 uh and we're we're proposing that be reduced from 361,000 to 150,000 for Grant report reporting purposes and and the reason for that is we uh uh the expenditure deadline for the grant is 1231 2026 uh based on actuals to date uh we we've we've paid Widow O'Brien $129,000 to date and we do not expect that we'll we'll spend that full encumbrance of 361,000 so for Grant purposes we're proposing that we we propose $150,000 to be spent for Grant purposes and and anything paid to it O'Brien above $150,000 will be paid from our arpa investment earnings and uh there's no restrictions on the payments of Interest earnings in arpa and those funds are completely flexible uh and we'll continue to have WID o Brian be under contract and provide our corly reporting and technical assistance but um but we will we will uh after we the first 150,000 will move it to uh another funding source and not part of the Grant and we'll talk we'll talk more about the arpa fund in earnings in a few minutes in a couple of the slides uh and in general we don't want an encumbrance or contract amount as of December 30th 2024 to be more than we plan to spend after that date and that's sort of why we're proposing we handle that contract that way uh the leftover encumbrance if we did that could could possibly leave grant money on the table uh at the end and we want to obviously make sure that doesn't happen uh and we'll continue to to monitor all the projects and that are not completed in the in the months ahead and be sure we don't have a situation where we we have an encumbrance that that may be unspent after 1231 2024 and this is the this is the list that uh that that uh we'll go over in a little more detail because these are the projects that are partially committed or or not started at all in some respects or uh and these projects we continue to monitor closely uh in the months ahead uh first I want to the first is the downtown East End plan Pro project uh we've had actual dollar spent on that of about 57,000 uh but I want to mention for that project that uh staff is planning to bring forward to your commission a proposal uh to move the 185,000 that is that is available Budget on the right hand side uh the economic development director is planning to to bring to the commission soon a proposal to move that funding to a downtown paper and and walkability project phase two and that'll be uh coming to the commission for your consideration in the near future the next project is Skinner Boulevard uh we have 2.7 million that's uncommitted uh and part of this is the uh the commission your commission approved uh an fot agreement uh for that project back in February 8th 2022 and that agreement has not been fully executed yet by by fot they've not formally they've not signed it and fully executed it so we've not paid them yet uh we expect that to happen in the near future uh once that is fully executed this amount will be reduced to about $700,000 uh of uncommitted and uh and we we'll be monitoring this project closely uh I I've keeping close conversations with Bob iron Smith and his team uh there's other utilities such as W Frontier and and others that uh that they're working on agreements with for that project uh we hope they should be encumbered by December 31st 2024 but if that's not the case uh we will consider moving some of the funding for this project to that Revenue replacement category 6.1 that's more flexible and and not in category 2.37 so we'll we'll be monitoring that uh once we get in the September time frame to determine if uh we think well there'll be dollars not encumbered and we'll one of our best ways to handle that is to put it in the revenue replacement at least those dollars that are that are not going to be encumbered the next project is the broadband internet project uh we we've had some uh actual exp expenditures in this project and we also have an encumbrance but if you look at on the far right we do have 1.6 million that is uh that is uncommitted and that's for future construction uh we we've began we just began the design work for that project and uh and depending on the timing of when the when the design is done uh and when the construction bids are received and and uh and and and and under contract uh if we feel that it's that will not take place by December 31st 2024 what we will uh consider doing is likely drawing drawing down that Revenue replacement uh in our September 30th corly quarterly Grant reporting and what we do for example is uh the revenue replacement I mentioned is completely flexible so what we do is we would we would spend the grant down by $1.6 million uh for Sheriff cost more than likely Sheriff cost and and our uh our fire department expenditures for a couple of months and we would we would draw those down on the Grant and then we would in the general fund we would earmark or commit a capital project Reserve in the general fund titled broadband internet project so we'd have a capital reserve in the general fund for broadband internet project and it'd be reserved for that for that purpose and once that's done the deadline for encumbering the funds for that project by December 24th goes away and as well as as the requirement to spend it by 2026 it's basically changing the color of the money on the project the grant requirements met but we also have the project you know tracked in our general fund to do at a future date uh and and I mentioned this this is part of the flexibility of the $10 million standard allowance uh we can we can draw down the grant but we still we can still do these projects without without uh running into into these timing concerns uh of 2024 incumbrance or spending by 2026 uh the next project is the Clear Water Ferry uh project this project has been delayed as commission all knows uh and depending on uh as we work through the 25 budget uh with this project uh this uh could be could be moved to another project by the commission or if it stays we can do the same thing we can we can draw this project down $55,000 and uh set a capital project again uh in the general fund for that to track as well if we decide to go that route the affordable housing project of 650,000 uh we we continue to monitor this project uh the director of Economic Development Bob iron Smith has uh another affordable housing project opportunity that he will be presenting to the commission I believe in early June of this year uh and uh we're hopeful that will that will uh result in a in a positive response uh but if but if we're not by September 30th or that timeline if if we are not we don't have an agreement and we're not in in some contract uh we we will Ser we consider drawing down those funds as Revenue replacement the same as I mentioned for the broadband and we would draw down we would draw down the 650 against the grant would show fire or Sheriff cost and then we set up a capital project in the general fund titled affordable housing project $650,000 it be tracked in the general fund and and and completed in the future in the general fund um as of today the last item there we have 277,000 uh $800 of unassigned arpa funding and about 211,000 of that is is the funding the reduction in the encumbrance that we have with Widow Bryan that I mentioned a few a little while earlier we reduced their PO on the grant uh by 21,000 to be paid for by the the investment earnings uh so with that change and some other dollars that were unspent we've got 277,000 and our plan will be to work through the 25 budget process with the city manager and your commission and and apply that to a project or two as we work through the 25 budget and the interest earnings to date we uh and this is as of uh again the uh March time frame uh uh through through 23 and 24 uh half halfway through the year we've earned about $698,000 of investment earnings in the arpa fund uh that amount continues to grow and and will continue to grow through the rest of 24 as well uh the cash balance in the fund will will be spent down in the you know in the months ahead as we as we uh work continue to complete projects but we we do expect to receive some interest earnings in 25 and 26 as well uh we're showing the remaining purchase order amount for WID O'Brien of 211,000 here uh netting against the uncommitted interest uh which brings it down to 486,000 and I I would estimate roughly our interest earnings would be about $150,000 more the rest of this fiscal year you know so through September 30th 2024 I would expect that to grow about 150,000 more and want to mention the interest earnings can be used for contingency on our existing Opera projects or can be used for any other purpose as we move forward it's totally flexible u in summary this is a snapshot of where we're at as of as of March 2024 we will continue to monitor these projects uh and we will also work closely with B O'Brien and the city manager to be sure we're in a good position to make sure that we we meet this what what is an obligation you know per the guidance um so the guidance 17.6 in this document uh basically states that uh for obligation purposes uh it can be an agreement or memor of understanding imposing conditions of the use of the funds by an agency or part of the government's receiving to carry out the program and the understanding can be between uh within the city the understanding can be between the city manager and the uh Public Works director for example uh and with proper language in an internal memo this could suffice as an obligation under the revised arpa guidance so that just came out uh we need to vet that with uh our procurement team more and also our our our City attorney as well uh we're not recommend recommending we do this at all at this time but but it is it it is as another layer of flexibility and another tool in our toolbox as we you know consider moving forward to make sure we uh you know uh spend the dollars and do the program the best way we can uh treasur received a lot of questions on this obligation you know in our worldle an obligation is a contractor or or or an encumbrance it's pretty simple in in the finance world but uh there were a lot of questions so they were trying to I think here add a little more flexibility a little more clarity on that topic that concludes our general comments and be happy to answer any questions great Thank You Les um I guess uh we've got commission questions going to start with uh John commissioner dunga thank you um The W from Whit Whit O'Brien's standpoint um do do they see any change in the in the ending date talked about the flexibility of of of some of this and I was just curious uh as as we've been watching some of this change and the addition of the categories um I'm just wondering if if there's going to be a change in that depending on perhaps availability of uh of supply chain for example of some things that our people were working on um is there a movement towards that I'm just curious no that's a great question and I'm going to turn that over to to Matt Matt could you answer that question mat answer can you just share with me who who who's making that decision then within within the government is there uh there must be a specific Department I'm just curious so it's the it's the US Department of Treasury um based on the uh Appropriations language that established the American Rescue plan act um previous covid uh programs uh obligation and expenditure uh information was not written into the legislation itself so they had some flexibility with arpa those dates are memorialized in the legislation so they don't have any administrative ability to extend it and so could the legislators extend it Congress certainly could um thank you given given the environment we're in right now it's it's highly unlikely just curious thank you that that's really okay um uh uh commissioner G uh thank you vice mayor uh yeah we were all kind of aware of all these projects and so there's really not a lot of questions in that regard uh my I don't even know that their concerns let's just there's been a lot of movement on on projects and buckets of money and when it will be um um done completed um um uh whatever uh so I just want to make sure that we're okay there and we have have a an assigned uh Revenue replacement bucket and when arpa first came out I can't because I can't recall was that part of the discussion where and could we have put everything in in that when one bucket and then just kind of um replenished ourselves as opposed to putting money directly towards projects we did did we put it all there yeah we could some some we could have right that you know that's a good question that we could have that 10 million for example that 10 million we could have drawn that down in the general fund uh the first first six months of the Grant and then and then uh applied general you know Fire cost fire department sheriff department and others drawing the grant down that way and then and then use that money in the general fund uh how the commission you know in whatever way the commission wanted to uh on projects or you know whatever they're whatever they wanted okay we did put $3 million in revenue recovery though right yeah we put three million that's right yes yeah and as we move money around because of the status of some of our projects and it looks like we're still looking at that today how quickly as we as we approach December 31st when might be a drop dead date or when might we cross over to a period of concern uh that we didn't allocate reallocate those funds on a specific project uh for we have time to then readdress it and quick put it in another project yeah I think we have we have time to readdress it I you know the the the projects in that $10 million which today that the snapshot all those that say Revenue replacement shaded are the ones that we would Envision being being under that $10 million we can draw those down at any point so those are those those like say the end of September would be in my mind the decision point to draw those down for instance I mentioned the why the the Broadband project draw that down and put that as a as a reserve formally in the in the general fund those are a very very easy to draw down the the ones we need to watch closely to are the the categories and I mentioned Skinner Skinner is on we need to watch closely because uh we don't know exactly you know when that's going to start you know the we don't know when it's going to start for sure we know it's a little later than we thought two months ago so if that if we don't have our all of our agreements in place for Skinner and encumbered then we will we will uh we'll make a change and we'll take some of that project and apply it to revenue imp placement and then we would probably move the pickle ball court to a category which is not now so we we have we do have some some good options for flexibility if we need to uh move funding off off the skinner which is really the only one that that I'm concerned about right now at all because the others uh we have a great we have a a great solution by just drawing down the funds and and tracking them as capital projects in the general fund so if I may add vice mayor that all of those amendments in that movement will be approved by the city commission as well you'll see it correct right yeah I I would assume that would be the case and just in speaking of the SC moar project because that's at the front of my mind actually we're in the hold up now is Dot and so if they hold off on making their decision and we have to reallocate the funds is that project of Jeopardy any at any point well I I would say on our side it would not be because we would we we we would be able to fully fund the project with what our current budget is right now but I see no issues there okay yeah all right thank you vice mayor thank you much thank you okay commissioner Walker thank you ma'am um you related to skner Boulevard project um are you able to share any of the the the the risks associated with the fot agreement um what's holding it up I guess is the question I'm answer that yeah if I may commissioner Bob iron Smith director of Economic Development and housing it's really just a really minor holdup uh Thursday night we're bringing to you for a maintenance agreement for the crosswalks on Skinner uh as soon as that is taken care of um we're going to have signed agreement probably next week late next week with Dot and from there we W the money so this is really just a very small blip and we expect this to continue very quickly from here they'll go out with their bid letting uh for the project so we're actually feeling pretty good about this we just needed to get this um crosswalk agreement approved and right from there we'll get it signed so we're actually in pretty good shape so I'm not overly concerned or i' be in Jennifer's office and I have we're we're we're pretty good so thank you appreciate that thanks um regarding the broadband internet I know that you stepped us through the the sequencing of that project and I apologize for for asking if you could just repeat that um I just there was things a little unclear to me and sure yeah the we've we've spent uh we spent we spent some dollars in the project we have an an encumbrance now for design work we just hired a firm to do design work for the the three phases uh downtown that your commission approved within the last month or so uh so that money is obligated and I think the design is supposed to be done by September is is the estimated date uh so if it's done by September and there's a timely turnaround and being able to get a bid and an award by December then then that one uh you know may be encumbered uh well before the end of December but but if we if it's not and if uh Design's delayed or there's the the the bid that there's timing uh issues with the bid then we would what we do is that the uncommitted amount of 1.6 million right now that we had and that's for construction that's that's funding set aside for construction for the project uh we would we would draw the grant down uh $1.6 million using uh General government expenditures and and we would likely use the sheriff contract and our fire department expenses uh over one or two months period would would cover that um we draw the grant down uh 1.6 million and that same amount we draw we drew down we would we would uh with B with your commission's approval we would do a uh a a uh a committed capital reserve in the general fund of $1.6 million for uh and it would be titled uh Broadband project uh same as it is now and and and then the project would continue to be completed uh through the general fund and and paid out of that capital reserve to complete that project okay all right okay that that would fulfill the the requirement for us to be encumbered and fully committed by the end of this calendar year that's correct that's correct yeah all right good um and this is a fundamental question but what is the when you we say fully committed what exactly does that mean uh F fully committed on these projects means uh that it's it's in a contract uh is in a contract and and so we consider that committed okay and then uh last question I had is with regards to the interest earnings um the um close to 700k less 21 to Wood o'ban about 400 and something um are what are the the the criteria the limitations on how that money gets spent are there deadlines associated with the interest earnings as well or no the interest earnings are are there's no restrictions of of timing or or or what we spend that money on it's totally flexible yeah okay totally that's fantastic yeah well thank you very much that's all I've got thank you so just a couple things so Les as I listen to you it's like I mean as we kind of walk through a lot of things over the last two years or whatever you know I've always felt kind of the arpa of money and the penny money and the general fund lots of flexibility between all those as we flow through our projects and in reality I mean arpa got their deadline but I mean because there's all kind of ways to flex the money around I mean there's really the deadline the deadlines aren't that meaningful I mean they're meaningful but I don't want to call it a game but it's like a game of moving the money so that you're really not hampered to your deadline times I mean so can you comment on that I know I didn't put it that well and but I mean it is kind of a money changing moving the money around kind of game so that you don't hamper yourself to when you have to complete the projects yeah there you know they have they do have deadlines but but they there are that $10 million stand allowance really changed the game I mean it really did I mean we could sit here and draw paid all kinds of general fund bills and just have an excess in the reserve to pay for these projects and not be that you know um uh held back by these deadlines that's true up up to that $10 million that's true you know and again we've okay you know we we we've we've applied quite a bit to the 10 million already probably five or five or five and a half million but yeah that that's true we do have flexibility yeah okay I mean because sometimes I felt like when you had the deadlines we've had and you get the construction prices we've gotten that with all these places around the country trying buying to get these projects done you know it's no wonder costs are higher right because everybody's trying to demand the same people to do the same stuff so okay um I um I don't really have any questions I explain that new ruling again that you said about the letter with public works yeah there's a new ruling that uh trying to broaden the definition of of what's a commitment or or an obligation uh and basically um a memorandum an internal memorandum in the city that that that that could be between the city manager any a department head uh it wouldn't have it could be the commission too but it could be the city manager based on uh what how I've read it and how how WID Brian's read it to date basically uh if you have language in there that that commits to the project being done by the December 26th deadline 2026 deadline and you show that there's commitment to uh and a plan moving forward to spend those dollars buy those deadlines and there's certain language in there that that uh that that that internal memorandum of understanding uh our the the US Treasury will consider that an acceptable obligation of the funds you know as of 12312 24 it's a little bit out of the norm and and again uh I need to share this information with J with Jennifer our City attorney and kind of get their input to it's uh but but it is it is another added labor of flexibility that that some public agencies could use to try to uh to meet that that deadline especially agencies that have a lot of a lot of funny that's not in that 10 million you know because because for us why would we even take a chance with that because we have other ways to flex it right true true yeah okay no that's good um I don't have any other questions but appreciate it um so I'm just going to open it to for public input if anybody would like to come up and speak to the issue okay uh okay and now I'm going to close I guess that was the public input right I'm going to close the public input and uh I'm going to go to commission comments and I'll start with on this side uh commissioner go uh thank you uh well done L thank you I know that this is been something to handle and you've done a wonderful job you and your staff so thank you yeah so um I guess this is this is for a little bit for just the education for the the public um you know the arpa funding was was unprecedented in in a lot of different ways um and it was actually uh provided a lot of benefit to the the regional and local communities um and of course with any any federal program um it only gets more bureaucratic and more complicated as we go along and uh I you know I have been asked the question okay so um you know with regards to how this was managed and and everything associated with it um I do want to point out that in terms of um in this case having a consultant assistance with this was was an absolute imperative because of the complexities the tracking the expansion of the scope a whole lot of different reasons why um why this this had to be monitored and we had to have somebody on the pulse of this so WID Brian performed that role and uh I you know what we gained out of that was is the elimination of of the risk that the city would have to take on with regards to to using those funds and spending them for the purpose for which they were intended and um as part of that um you know that that that redu that reduction in Risk is significant because there there are scenarios where if the the the um decisions on how the money gets spent um were were ever to come into question the the drawback or the clawback in terms of those funds would be really problematic for the way that we run this so um yeah I I will say that uh having seen arpa from two different perspectives from a federal perspective and then from a local perspective um I'd say you know um we've done a we've done a pretty good job managing the those funds and I'm you know I'm I'm very happy about that so thank you right uh commissioner T thank you um and thank you for the presentation uh I know we've been talking offline about this as well to some degree about what happens I'm I'm encouraged um by the flexibility that the federal government has had with this uh program uh and in allowing the creation of the three additional um in in allowing this Revenue enhancement uh I think that's great and I think I think the way way that you guys are handling it now um gives us the most the most flexibility it was obviously a program um designed to uh to increase uh some spending um within the government uh might be a little bit in conflict with with the FED but um nevertheless nevertheless I think they've given they've given a number number of a number of good options of how to handle this and and you followed those so um from what I see now it looks like we're in pretty good shape for for the maneuvering uh within the program so I appreciate your update on that and I appreciate the fact that we had Whit O'Brien on uh on the line as well should should we have uh made any misunderstandings but so thank you for the presentation great um and I agree with any everything that's been said I I mean these dollars have done a lot of a lot of good for our community and um I um I I agree with commissioner Walker about the importance of WI O Brian um also you know really I have to say Les and Ashley when I sit here there's also that importance of when you listen to someone like I just listen to you L and it's about moving this money and doing this thing to this money and you know all the shell matches it's really important to have trust in your Finance people and I have total trust and so it's really important um again the the monies have done a lot of good for our community but we sure don't want to put ourselves in a clawback situation and I think we've done everything to make sure that doesn't happen so thank you thank you okay uh we're going to um unless anybody wants to take a break um we're going to keep on moving we're good okay so we're going to go to uh and thanks both of you again Les and Ashley and wood O'Brien um we're going to move to next item a summary of the freebie dun Eden Loop six-month pilot project and request for direction to continue the program and uh I'll just ask the city manager if she wanted to say anything before we move to staff presentation actually mayor if I may uh let's go over the overview and then I'd like to make a few comments vice mayor okay great thank you okay it's you guys' show go George vice mayor Commissioners uh bear with me I got a little bit of a head cold here but but I'm going to try and uh turn this over quickly to Jason so he'll give you the fun presentation and fill you in on all the facts but just by way of background as the commission knows in early 2023 the city put out an RFP and the intent was to to find a clean Mobility provider uh that would provide an alternative transportation option in and around the downtown uh freebie was a successful candidate uh and we did shortly after they were on board we launched the six-month pilot project uh that pilot has basically concluded there's a couple more weeks left on it but it has basically concluded and again I will quickly turn it over to Jason from freebie who will present some of the data that he Acquired and talk to you a little bit about cost recovery and some other aspects of the program ultimately we're looking for commission Direction on whether to continue the program um and before I do before I turn it over Jason uh I did want to quickly thank Kathy gader who I think is behind me she did another incredible job uh managing this program and coordinating with Jason and the working group and special thanks also to the working group uh which consisted of Nicole Delino Sue beress Vince Gizzy Trevor Davis Mary sheets and Grant painter um so with that I'm going to turn it over to Jason and he will provide you with this quick presentation thank you good morning everybody uh good morning Madame vice mayor uh Commissioners uh Madam manager uh it's great to see everybody again um again my name's uh Jason Spiegel one of the co-founders and managing Partners at freebie uh excited to be here today to provide an update on the freebie denan Loop uh pilot project uh as George mentioned is now coming up uh at the end of a full six months um we're very happy with the results of the program um both from a ridership standpoint uh a customer feedback standpoint an economic impact standpoint um and today I'm going to provide you guys a presentation talk a little bit about what the original goals were of the program um go through some highlevel stats um talk about the survey that was implemented um some recommendations that we have on continuing to enhance the service and then we'll end by answering any additional questions that you guys might have so again looking back at the original intent and the goals of this program uh the main objective was to introduce uh an Innovative TurnKey Transportation solution um serving the residents uh visitors business employees um by providing connectivity to everything that downtown they need and had to offer um all the work uh to work shopping restaurants events night lives and in doing this we developed uh and implemented a six-month pilot project um that helped uh to really accomplish these goals um helped with a lot of the the parking challenges within the downtown core there um and one of the main goals was to do this with in a very sustainable way using 100% electric vehicles um promoting a cleaner and Greener downtown environment there um another big goal of the program again was to help uh during the Spring training um when the Toronto Blue Jays were here and you know things get crazy and a lot of people are in town um helping them provide Mobility to and from TD ballpark um and then again at the end of the day ultimately really just helped make this community a place where you can live work and play and not need to own uh a personal vehicle there so very high level in terms of the executive summary um you know we had very very good growth throughout the entire pilot um it was a very successful pilot we moved over 8,000 passengers um and we really doubled the amount of ridership from month one to month uh five um the service you know had tremendous feedback um from passengers um from uh internal stakeholders here um and again the the feedback that we're receiving within this pilot program um some of the you know some of the highest rating uh that we have across over 40 of the municipalities um that we currently operate today um but outside uh Transportation um you know extends Way Beyond that it's all about how do we connect um passengers with everything that you know this city has to offer within the downtown core uh to local businesses to all the attractions and really just enriching the entire overall Community experience um you know uh freebie as a partner um we don't look at ourselves as a vendor um our job is to go above and beyond for you guys to provide the highest level of execution um be there when um anything that you guys have asked and um and I think that you know throughout this pilot we have really shown our loyalty to the community here and you know again our goal was to really continue to build on this momentum um Elevate the expectations uh for the the future um and it's going to be driven by again Innovation Community Partnership and just high high execution on the service Level side um so the program did launch November 2nd um it operates four days of the week from Thursday through Sunday um Thursday was 11:00 a.m. to 10 p.m. Friday and Saturday from 11:00 a.m. 11:00 a.m. to 12:00 a.m. and uh Sunday from 11:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. uh we launched with three vehicles and in terms of the routes uh we had two routes there's an offseason route and an inseason route um the only difference between the two routes is that in season which is when the Toronto Blue Jays are here uh it extended to the TD ballpark there um but these are the the two routes that uh had imple been implemented over the last 6 months and again in terms of the customer experience um there was multiple ways you were able to request a ride uh you can wave the vehicle down as it was uh uh going by along the Route um along anywhere along the Route there um but then also you can also download the ride freebie mobile app you can request a ride along the Route as well um you can see that vehicle in real time um and uh with uh both of those uh ways to be able to request service um the average Headway between both uh the fix route and basically uh using the app was about 7 and 1/2 minutes uh the customer satisfaction so people were able to rate their experience after every ride it was a 99.6 meaning that it was extremely extremely rare if anybody rated the service under five stars and the peak times of the service uh were 30 Thursday uh from 12: to 2: um and 5: to 9 uh Fridays from 5:00 p.m. to 12:00 a.m. um Saturdays from 1:00 p.m. to 11: p.m. and on Sundays from 1:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m. uh we created uh a real-time tracking uh website for uh you know uh for both the city and for um uh passengers to be able to track the vehicles um from any uh you know phone any uh any computer uh you'll be able to see where all the the highlighted stops are which were points of interest you can see where the vehicles are at um in real time um so you knew and had that transparency on when that vehicle was going to come and be able to pick you up there um in terms of again high level stats over 8,000 passengers which is tremendous for a for a pilot program that's only um operating from a Thursday through Sunday um two and a half passengers per ride on average over uh 3,000 rides that were completed uh the male female breakdown was almost you know similar it was a 53% leaning more female 47% male um and 2/3 of the the Riders actually uh waved the vehicle down while one3 used the app to be able to use the service there um in terms of the age demographic which we're able to collect um with people that are using the app uh over 78% were over the age of 51 uh SE 11 1.2% were 35 to 50 and 102% were 21 to 34 there um we also created for you guys an internal dashboard to be able to track all the metrics in real time U be able to pull up all the historical data all the heat mapping I'm really just providing you guys every piece of data from the program at your fingertips there um and I know Kathy and George really use this tool um on a weekly basis to uh you know to give you guys what the ridership and kind of all the all the great things that are happening with the program um but this dashboard screen on the left hand side this is kind of the live dashboard it gives you uh real life stats for that day um the screen on the right hand side are the heat map so you can pull any date um you know be it one day a week a month the entire program and you can see where people are getting picked up and dropped off um within uh the downtown core there we also provide access to all the raw data so again it's a very transparent Service uh where the pickup address was the drop off how many passengers if it was an app ride if it was a flag down ride uh how how long in terms of miles that ride was there all this data was able to be exported to excel um and again work hand in hand with Kathy and the team to really uh make sure they understand what was happening with the program um and then also one of the tabs in the live dashboard it it allowed you guys to be able to create these really cool reports um that showed all the different uh kpis of the program again the ridership um the the the uh ratings the male female breakdowns the the vehicle miles traveled historical data the day-by-day data the hour by hour data um but again this was a tool that we created for you guys to make sure that you know managing the program and understanding the success um you know was just a click button away there so where were people riding um you know obviously the main uh places people were going were two and from the restaurants and bars um going downtown shopping two and from the hotels the marina um TD ballpark um during the inseason um the hospital a lot of the employees were using it um and the me Life Community um they were a huge user of the service um probably one of the main users of the program um and again uh as you see on the heat here there was uh really um action all along the Route um throughout the pilot program um in terms of the environmental impact again using 100% electric vehicles uh we had over 12,000 vehicle miles traveled uh which uh related to over almost 4 and A5 million uh grams of CO2 um from be pre from being prevented from coming out into the the atmosphere here within the city um this is all tracked again through the uh through the dashboard there um but again this was one of the big goals of the program again launching 100% electric Fleet um reducing carbon emission and based on all these vehicle miles traveled uh would have been way different if it was used with a gas vehicle there um in terms of public Outreach um and special events um again worked hand inand with the city city staff um everybody that was involved with the program to make sure that we uh put together a very very sophisticated outreach program um attending tons of events tons of presentations um to really get the word out uh of the program itself um and then again we we partak in all the special events that were here um during the weekends um we work hand inand with treasure uh with Trevor when uh the villages women's group would come in on days off we would bring in our staff at our own cost um to help provide pickup and drop offs um for those uh for the uh for the folks that were coming in town there um but again our our main goal here was to really show you guys that we're not just a vendor to the city um we're here to be a partner and we're we're you know really focused on the long long-term success of this program we uh we implemented uh a survey a few months back and we had you know overwhelming positive feedback um from basically many of the respondents um over 80% uh over 86% of the the respondents uh recommend continuing the program um 74% of the respondents believe that the the route is convenient um 84% of these respondents uh would allow uh would like to see advertising play a role in helping to reduce the cost of the program um 77% think that the hours are adequate and 22% would like to see an expansion of the hours and days there um additionally um 80% 87% of the respondents uh believe the drivers are professional and courteous um 84% feel the service is extremely comfortable and clean um 85% would recommend the service to a friend um and two-thirds of the respondents had used the service multiple times there um and the best kind of response that we got was that 40% of the the respondents would have used a personal vehicle um if freebie was not an option to be able to move around the downtown core there um so when it comes to recommendations and enhancements for the service on a very high level I I think that the data and the feedback has really shown that this uh you know this uh downtown uh Looper should be a permanent staple within the downtown core here now I don't recommend expansion today at this time I think we need to collect data over the next 6 months since we' only have 6 months of data here um collecting more feedback um from the stakeholders uh from the city here um coming back after a full year of data and really massaging out to understand when we need to add more vehicles to the fleet when we have to add more hours what would potential days look like um to add you know during certain times of the year specifically again during the Spring training months there um but again I I I'm truly confident that the data that we have again compared to a lot of the cities that we operate was extremely extremely positive um so we do recommend um keeping this service as a permanent staple here within the downtown um another big recommendation that we have is really use utilizing the technology that we have in place not implementing a fully on demand service but more of a flex service and the way that would work is that you know we would still have the route um that we currently have where the vehicles are going around the route um people would be able to request along the Route there but instead of taking them you know if somebody needs to uh you know to go basically backwards instead of going all the way around around the route you'd be able to pick them up drop them right off at their destination and get right back onto the route there and what that's going to do it's going to drive much higher ridership you know we had a few folks that wanted to jump on uh the loop but didn't really want to go around the entire Loop to get to where they need to go it was a little bit inefficient there this would really kind of uh help with that type of challenge um and it's really going to help on the customer um and make it just a more personalized experience there again still keeping the the loop uh concept but adding a little bit more technology to to make it more efficient to drive that higher ridership there um and then again we we all know that during spring training there's a lot of folks in town and we would definitely recommend um looking at additional vehicles um during those specific game days um because we were just in uh we had so much ridership um during the last month when uh when the the Blue Jays were in town here um so this you know really talks about what expansion pricing would look like and one of the most important things I want to you know show from this slide is that um as more hours are implemented it only incrementally goes up in cost a little bit there so again um adding a 40% increase in service uh level meaning more hours it's only a 27% increase in cost um adding a 75% increase in service levels a massive expansion again it's only a 42% increase in cost there um but again our recommendation is to continue with the current service levels over the next 6 months um come back at that time and really put together a full year plan based on all the data that we collected there might be times of the year where you might only need one vehicle out there to really kind of save on the efficiency and the cost effective of that program and use those dollars again during the high uh season when the Toronto Blue Jays are here when special events are in town um but again this is again just shows you the the cost breakdown for what a potential expansion can look like um and again as more hours are added to the fleet um it doesn't incrementally go up uh the same amount in terms of percentage there um advertising again can also play a role in helping to subsidize the cost of the program um again if we we start kind of going down that path you could probably look at anywhere between 10 and 30% of a reduction in cost of the service just through that mechanism Alone um and you know that kind of C comes to the cost recovery here what are some additional ways um that the city can really take advantage of helping to subsidize the program again we talked about advertising sponsorships uh for local Regional and National brands that want to obviously advertise within the downtown core here a big portion of that Revenue goes back to the city to help lower the cost um there's tons of grant opportunities out there there's a grant coming down the pipeline right now um with fdot that will help expand the the service um of the program and that will help pay for 50% of the cost over the next three years um as that expansion takes place uh we have an entire Grant team in house that would work hand inand with your staff to help write that Grant um make sure we're providing all the data all the feed feedback from the program there um another bucket that we've seen in other communities is um developers and hotels um basically kicking into help fund a portion of the service because it's a huge benefit um for these uh developers and the hotels as well and then again the Partnerships uh with the county public transit um PSTA you know this really integrates with into their system as well it helps connect people to their bus lines to their trolley rot lines um for folks that are going further there um but again at a very high level um we really uh are very happy with the results of the first 6 months of the program here um we think it's been extremely successful again both from a ridership standpoint um customer feedback standpoint um and really get you guys have tons of events that are going on here on almost every single weekend and and this has really been a great tool for you guys to use to be able to help um get folks to and from the events around the events to the parking lots Etc there so again um very happy to see you guys again and here to answer any questions that you guys might have on the program hey thank you thank you Jason um Jennifer unless you want to jump in I'll just go to questions I at some point you want to do that okay um so questions for staff and I guess I'll start on this side this time so commissioner gal you want to get us started thank you see you writing away over there so uh understand that the program's only been in place for 6 months um and also just real quickly on Headway just for public consumption what do you mean by the Headway meaning that uh a vehicle would go by a certain stop every 7 minutes um so we had projected to be around 10 minutes it actually was less so it was again it was a very reliable service that people can wait for okay so the amount of time that somebody would have to wait for one to come by correct okay fantastic and I'm glad that you ahead of schedule um is there any data on how many people came into dun Eden because of the freeb service I I could pull so again we have about one-third of the Riders um that use the the mobile application um from that they do have to put their local zip code so I can pull that data to show you know how many of that were locals versus you know outside you know tourists or visitors but we don't have I wouldn't say we have any specific data on that exactly and I'm sure we don't have any data on of those that would be out of town zip codes are here every year versus it's their first time visiting D we probably don't don't have that and I'm just trying to figure out whether or not is this is the freebie service adding to our downtown or are we just moving around people that are already here is where my head is so and trying to valuate uh freebie um let me see when it comes to and I guess I'll start where we uh right here at the end on the expanded pricing options where it talks about uh the advertising splitting between City and freebie and you talked about maybe getting hotels and restaurants involved who's responsible for getting that advertising onto freebie is that freebie or is that the city so we would we take care of everything from A to Z so we have an entire team that would again a sponsorship team that would you know meet with local Regional national uh potential sponsors and we would handle all of that and you guys would okay but I would say commissioner you know as that occurred you know we would certainly want to know who that Advertiser was and that you know I think that would need to be cleared through the city correct yeah you guys would always have approval on The Advertiser and the creative and what that would look like I wasn't even thinking that way George but you're you're absolutely right yeah we want to be careful who who is advertising all right and cuz I thought under this pilot program there was kind of going to be part of the concept so here today you'd be able to say hey here here's the businesses we reached out to and here's what they're willing to offer did did we go through that process during this pilot program or is this just something that's still in concept form we'll we'll do it if we sign another contract correct so the the the direction that we had was to keep the vehicles branded for um the city of Denon throughout this first six months pilot um we had some ability to sell advertising but again I think the direction was to keep it uh a branded service um help continue to build again on the service because it was brand new there um but we did you know again reach out a ton of local businesses on the app itself there's free advertising for every local business um so we had reach outs to all them we worked with the chamber um every business was able to get free advertising on the mobile app there was a really you know some deals and discounts on there that a lot of businesses were able to offer um but the actual paid advertising that's some direction we're looking for you from you guys today um to be able to implement okay and you know I think it I think it's pretty common knowledge in D that all the residents are are pretty happy here uh you know all are very unique everybody's friendly you hear that just it's an everyday thing and so my question is is when we see the number of positive responses about freebie and we live in the second most happiest place on Earth are we shocked by that response if I now I I'm not going after Disney um uh but uh so when when people say oh every you know they gave me a free ride and they said they loved it yeah I are we surprised by that outcome are you in other cities to where oh no Riders hated it we gave them a free ride and they didn't like it I think it's I think it's more than the ride I think it really is the experience that our drivers were able to create again these were happy uh a local residents that again bubbled over not only as just drivers but as tour guid and it was more about about providing this great experience and and I think that's more of the the positive uh reviews and raving that you're you're seeing from the community there is really the drivers that are making this service um really taking it to a whole another level there they've been amazing okay [Music] um sorry guys um good May don't uh got still got a lot I doing my partnership so who's responsible goals uh let me is the data showing reduced traffic or parking demands in our downtown area I right which is which was part of the goal right we did we're trying to keep people from driving around in our downtown core yes do we have any data that says yes so I would say the survey uh 40% of the respondents said that they would use their per personal vehicle if they didn't use the freebie service um so that means that they're leaving their car at home they're using the freebie to move around which is reducing traffic um and freeing up local parking spaces there is that what that says and are people leaving the car if they're leaving the car at home and the freebie service is in our downtown core it poses the question how did they get downtown to begin with it could be two parts they might live within the area there uh as part of the route or maybe they're parking at one of the surface lots and able to really use the freebie service to move around until they have to leave towards the end of the day there um but yeah I mean the the survey that we' obviously launched across the entire city here 40% of those respondents said that they would have used a personal vehicle if it wasn't for the freebie service can can I just ask one tag on question how many people responded to the survey um I think it say I didn't remember seeing it uh from this date it was it was close to 300 people okay thank you okay out of the 4,000 rides when it 4,000 rides yep sorry clarify the percentages can be deceiving unless you know the number you're talking about so right if we're talking about surveys is that significant I don't know the right verb verogy on on that but is it stati statistically signicant significant thank you again the survey was only implemented in for about a month and a half out of the entire pilot project so it wasn't from day one to the end of it that we were collecting data throughout the entire uh you know project there okay and so do we have and this is just I don't know who to answer who's going to answer so I'll just throw these out have we received any feedback from the chamber or the downtown Merchants Association on increased sales or increased uh butts and seats from from our downtown do do we do we know that I have okay and I know through Les and his penny for panagas um When comparing month-to-month year to year in our Penny sales tax we're actually down this year and every month but uh November right and so January we were down 5.1% on sale so actually we don't have the tourists coming in and so I'm wondering again what if we're having freebie in our downtown what is the economic impact of of that and um I don't know that we can have that although I think at least data is showing sales are down everywhere so tourism is down everywhere um so we're not building that up um rers ship is 33% and the flag down was 66% is that people that understanding the Headway said I'm too impatient to wait or walk until I see freebie come by or is it freebie came by and they said oh a free ride but they're already walking with those people taking freebie would have just walked anyway that's a good question I mean I can't give you an exact answer on that but that is uh something that we're able to implement in terms of a survey question so one of the capabilities that we have is that uh on the app itself if somebody wants to use that it would make them answer a survey question before they can actually request the ride there and we can actually gather that data um but I can't answer that you know uh uh specifically to that question okay and on the uh the heat Maps where we're seeing a lot of the activity are you seeing those heat Maps like are people going from Bona petite to calonia or one of our remote parking are we seeing a long distance to where they might not have gone had they not if we not had not had the freebie as opposed to are they just taking freeb for the one block from heat island to heat island getting off and on that is something that's really walkable so are they are they using freebie because they really wouldn't go to that other destination if they had to walk or they just using it yeah because it happens to be there who doesn't like a free ride I think it's I think it could be both um I I you know again can't give you an exact answer there um I could just talk more conceptually there um but it makes it easier for people to visit more places within the downtown once you have a Mobility solution that connects people to where they want to go there if somebody has to constantly move their vehicle from one place to another um and a lot of people again you know I love to walk many people love to walk there's a lot of people that don't like walking and can't walk don't have that ability um we did a lot of you know a lot of people coming from me you know a lot of of these seniors they're not walking around everywhere within the downtown there um but I think it's I think it's a mix and and again you're you might capture some of those folks that could have walked but I think there's a lot of folks that again might have not gone to that next destination if it wasn't for a Mobility service that would get them there and then get them back closer to where their car is and and I can't disagree with that right that you can never say all or nothing right there's everything's a spectrum I agree with that but 76% of your ridership was over age 51 and me life was the most active spot did did I hear you not the most but it was one of the one of biggest y one of the biggest pick up and drop off which there right there's a correlation there then isn't it and I we could also say that for those people who truly leave their cars at home that to me is probably the only population captured that tells us yes that's true that they left their cars if they have one at me God on life got on freebie at life and came to one of our downtowns um so that's to me one of the only really metrics that says yes it does work for some part of our population sure and and I would say probably majority of those users from there were not using the mobile app um and that's not captured within that age demographic uh chart that I showed you that's only people coming through the app there so people who downloaded it and um you know again majority of them were over the age of 51 there oh wonderful yeah and I know my my mother grew up in St Pete and she actually talks about public transit all the time and when she grew up they rarely had bus stops you just kind of walked and when the bus came by you jumped on it and it took you wherever you wanted to go what a wonderful time that was uh your environmental impact I love all the data uh right on the CO2 saved but this isn't talking about this is only talking about the freebie Vehicles not necessarily any carbon reduction because we saved on people driving correct so yeah the number would be even larger with that data there this is specifically just to the vehicle miles traveled of the electric vehicles using electric instead of gas and it would only be larger if those people weren't using their cars but if they have to drive into our downtown cuz if parking is such an issue it would be insanely rare for anybody to use use their car to go from place to place because they could never guaranteed a parking spot once they get there so I think most people might drive to find a parking spot but once they find it they're not moving until they're leaving the downtown um thank you guys for your patience I really appreciate it uh and it just seems to me this is probably more of a comment than a question and and I know I said at the beginning of this trial that yeah if we're going to measure the success of freebie just on free rides what a deal that is you can't fail who I'm I'm a big proponent of walking I think our downtown is walkable acknowledging there are some people that can't I I understand that um but even myself if a freebie were to drive by and say hey want to ride who isn't going to say no to that so I'm having a really hard time really measuring the success and the positive impact it's having and the number of people that are using freebie that if freebie weren't here they'd still be in our downtown they'd still be enjoying our downtown and uh and other than me life which is to me one of the gold Services of of this service is it's giving people an opportunity to leave their vehicles at home and then come into our downtown and uh so I'll leave it at that I'm still a believer in um an on- demand service or a fixed route into our communities uh I'd rather do that than a Looper in our downtown that people can walk to and walk around and enjoy um but that's more for my comments I'm sure there's other questions that I've missed out on but um I'll let my colleagues have some thank you sir for your time appreciate it thank you commissioner G uh commissioner walker uh yes ma'am thanks um so I do have a a few questions related to commissioner gw's um discussion um you know this uh freebie is a tool in our toolkit for traffic reduction and helping to solve our parking problem and the great benefit to freebie is is that uh it uh it it is a it is a visual enhancement to our visual sense of place it it really you know I I really kind of think it it fits um you know just from a from a a downtown core perspective um I I I keyed on that 40% number as well and I wanted to I really wanted to intuitively take that number to you know something meaningful in terms of parking or reduction in traffic and I can't I I don't think 297 278 people I I just you know I fortunately we can't do that I can't do it um my question to you in the other markets that you serve it would be really helpful if you might have some data some inquiry with regards to because I'm sure we're not the First Community to face face this and uh face the the parking and the Traffic Challenge um is there anything that if we were to make a decision to go forward for another six months is there anything that we can do to assist the city the staff in showing the interrelatedness of what freebie provides and the impact to our parking and our traffic have you guys ever been asked to do that by any of your other markets um you know there's there's definitely data that can correlate back to that I I think again it it it always comes down to who's riding and be able to get that true feedback from them um that is really where you're going to gather all that specific data um from the folks that are actually in the car and being able to ask them a question right there on the spot there um we can absolutely do that we can put together a really more kind of in-depth kind of incar survey rather than just a CommunityWide survey to the actual Riders uh within the vehicles there and correlate back that to you know okay I was parked over here and I'm using the service because again I don't want to continue to take my car out and I'm I'm visiting additional places um and again it's there there's a lot that we can actually just grab from the data of this type of program um through the app itself through the surveying on there um to correlate back to again all the goals and objectives that you guys are kind of laying out in fourth here is how are we reducing traffic how are we freeing up more limited parking um there's definitely ways and mechanisms that we can do that yeah that I I think you know that would be helpful going for forward for forward um as you're everybody's aware this this becomes a recurring cost and the recurring cost is not insignificant and I I think in order for us to be able at least for me and to be able to justify this is there's got to be some data that shows that we are we are um in part solving our parking problem and we're reducing traffic because at the end of the day that was one of the the the motivations behind this this pilot program um now the other question I would have is with regards to On Demand is that one of your expansion uh I can look that up one of your expansion uh recommendations or discussions yeah I mean I I think from the beginning of this program um you know I think the on demand program would have significant benefits uh to uh basically the size of this territory I mean we operate across 40 cities 38 of them are all fully on demand services so what I propose here because I know I heard feedback kind of from the last time that you guys didn't want to go down the full on demand path I kind of put together a hybrid where you can request the Ride On Demand throughout this basically service area and it operates more of like a flex route where the vehic Vehicles if they're not on a ride they would continue along the Route until they got a call right off the route pick them up take them where they need to go and jump right back onto the route there um multiple ways you can do it you can do a full fixed route you can do a flex route like I'm I'm you know recommending here or we go with a fully on demand service where again we can kind of enlarge the service area get more of the the residential folks around the community there and in some of the some cities similar to denen what we do is we create kind of this Zone within a Zone where the inner zone is the downtown core the outer zone is more of the residential communities and you have to start your ride or end your ride within the downtown core to be able to use the service there um so we have all these capabilities um it would work tremendous here but it would be more of the the direction that you guys um want to see with this program yeah but we have that capability no and I I greatly appreciate that explanation um yeah I at this particular I just and I'm probably should have started with this um at this point I'm I'm not in favor of any expansion to ond demand service we have local business that provides that I support the local business and uh I you know I should have I'm sorry I kind of set you up on that and I apologize um but um I but I do appreciate the explanation that you did provide in terms of how you would if you know you were called upon to do that um so yeah and I think the flex route you know really kind of provides that in between there it provides that you know really Technology based service it's going to drive higher ridership um and it's not going to go into the residential neighborhoods um and again with that local business we've been helping to promote them for folks that are going further we're handing out their cards throughout the freebie Vehicles themselves there so again we're here we're here to be a community partner yeah okay that's all the questions I have great thank you um and uh commissioner T thank you thank you Jason I appreciate um your input to this and I appreciate how you're trying to kind of stay on the outside and let us kind of decide what we what we really what we really feel about this um however I would like to make a couple comments about that um first of all I don't think you were surprised uh at all I'm asking a question um about the results of this I think you know it's kind of intuitive that that you know for example during the B baseball time we we had people that wanted to ride this and there's people that like to ride this and so so this was just kind of a small little attempt at going from just a few parking areas allegedly grew a little bit bigger um and certainly it's it has its it has a value for example when we talk about the baseball during that specific time period um it it would seem like you'd want to have some kind of a service for that so I don't think you weren't really surprised um by the by the positive statements You' you've been doing this you're in all these you're what 40 I think you're in 40 places now when I first met you you were in 16 or something like that and continuing support so um I don't think you were surprised by anything were you no again and I think the value is you know it's it provides number one it's an equitable Service public transit is obviously a very important kind of Mobility service for all different types of communities for again every facet of walks of life here from you know residents visitors especially workers getting to and from their jobs I'm helping Drive traffic additional traffic to these I think there's a lot of benefits um to a program like this that again it's it's hard to kind of pinpoint that it's this that or that but it's a combination of all this that really just enhances the overall kind of downtown experience especially For Tourists that are coming in town staying locally they don't have to rent a car that means that next year they're going to probably want to come back because the need was so convenient to be able to move around to where they want to go they're spending more money at the businesses because they're not spending on Transportation parking Etc um and again it just has this kind of effect across the entire board that really hits on all these different buckets there and I don't think there was thank you I don't think there was any any thought in your mind that we wouldn't at some point in time want to consider an intra City uh function for this um because I think that's that's where the value is of something like this uh the value for us is equal by the less vehicles in the area uh less parking problems uh for people that want to come into the city we've had stories about people cing around can't find a place and I leave um and and the cost of of creating that parking which is which in a couple cases for us right now is very very expensive so if you have an in city like this uh it would it would seem like that is also very intuitive that that somebody would jump you know would jump on that I liked your concept of I liked on demand myself personally and I think you know that in for conversations that we've had in way in the past but um I think that the on demand can be can be on on selected areas you've got all that flexibility you know how to do that I I know you know how to do that so I've I've listened to you before um about creating something like that sections where hey here's here's a route this thing is going to come out here and come around and if you on two streets over you call you'll see it coming and you call and get picked up and get taken where you want but you have to remain in Den Eden and you have to go you have to end up generally going on that route or touch the downtown um so I I think that you've had success with that that kind of thing in in some of in some of your programs have you not AB I mean it's the on demand service has been extremely successful and really helping again keeping uh money locally within the community freeing up parking and all the goals that you guys have set forth so were there any that it didn't work in and and why I would say today we have never had a contract canceled uh over 50% of the contracts that we've implemented have expanded because of how popular the service has been um in terms of more Vehicles larger service area more more Revenue hours uh but yet to to this day we still have not had a contract canceled um on the on demand side thank you um I may come back to that in a second but um I wanted to ask a question about the financing of something like this um you've had experience with with a a large number of cities or or or municipalities or let's say an area that you're serving to to create this this movement this Transportation where doesn't require somebody to drive or to have a car or to drive their car um I uh try not to go too much on the advertising CU I don't like advertising on the Samu I don't think it looks good coming through our City our communities Etc um but how how do they how do they finance we I mean you mentioned you mentioned for example um getting grants Etc and I know I know this is becoming a big thing within the government at this point in time um but how how are there any secret successes to to someone doing this I mean do they do they figure out how to get the the the area where most of the transportation is going to do they figure out how to get those people to pay for it or they figure out or they have they have a magical system for the financing or are there any yeah I would say there's again there's different mechanisms for different communities there um the biggest mechanism that we see across the board is through this fdot grant it's the public service developmental Grant it helps fund 50% of the overall cost of the service there and it's for 3 years when that three years is coming up to be able to renew that specific Grant you make an adjustment to the service you add a couple more hours you add another vehicle and that really that just resets that uh three-year of that Grant there um and again we've had tons of success with I would probably say out of the 40 maybe 15 20 have that specific Grant um and it's again it's it's been a very successful way to continue to finance grow a program and then introduce other kind of revenue streams and subsidies um through advertising which you know again could be a little bit more minimized than a full car itself there uh you can introduce a fair based service if you want again that'll pay for that'll pay for a portion it's not going to make a big chunk into it um but there's you know again there's I'll give you an example with the City of Aventura every new development that's coming in there they make the developer commit for a new car for the next 10 years uh a new freebie car for them um there's a lot of different ways um to be able to be creative to kind of finance and fund these types of operations there and at the end of the day um if we're able to justify that this is actually providing a return on its investment then the investment is Justified there so you probably have a lots of input to that that that you're not exposing us to at this point in time but but I'm sure there's a lots of lots of ways of doing that collecting it collecting the dollar from somebody um is probably not the answer um or or creating some advertising of course of what you're going to want a piece of or normally I'm just talking if you're a business person you would say hey look let me have a piece and you guys keep keep a piece of it but it's probably not doing a lot of the financing of it but I liked your presentation where you talked about how we if you added if we add into this program uh and this this uh concept of modified on demand as opposed to just on demand I like on demand and I like modified on on demand concept and I think we could has anybody done something like this and just created a c certain area within their municipality and tested it that way you don't have it guys over here but you guys do have it yeah again it goes back to each City's goals and objectives a lot of our cities it's a maybe a portion of the community there maybe it's just a downtown maybe it's just a Transit Corridor where they want to get folks to and from back and forth and there's other cities where yeah it's the entire Municipal boundary but it always at the end of the day goes back to your goals and your objectives and we're able to put together an entire analysis is to really show you hey this is how it's going to work and this is kind of some of the results that you should expect from it um on demand at the end of the day nine out of 10 times drives higher ridership drives you know more people to use a public transit service um here within obviously the downtown core you can kind of have this Flex where I think you're going to gain those uh positive elements of the kind of on demand service but still kind of keep it within the core here and Al also again have it also route based um kind of have that in between there I think that would be very successful for this for this core and and cities have done that cities have done a specific area within their city oh yeah just to try it first and then we'll add this and we' add this and we would add this is that do that work does that work absolutely and again it's always better to start small than to start too big right you want to start small you want to prove it and then continue to expand it from there because it's all about level of service and you want to provide a high level of service um when you're providing a Mobility solution to the community I really don't have very many questions about the statistics that you talked about I went through them I read them I saw them um no surprises to me I know I know it's a unique thing for us so you're going to have people that are going to ride it for fun I know that I talked to people that did that and that's understandable you get on it and I don't want to get off this thing I'll stay on it for a while um but it was just making a point it was just showing this Duneden freebie sorry but uh I'll name it that way um because it it relates to your company and it relates to denen and denen is providing a service for somebody um and they they like who wouldn't like that as everyone else is set up here um and and in this particular case it was it was the uniqueness of it but but they also used it in some cases and I watched that to get to some of the places within here I think I think the the statistics um are not significant for me in in in defense of them uh as it would relate to where I think this program can really go um I think it was just the first part of it and I think I think a broader part I think the biggest problem is for us to figure out how to finance it yeah no absolutely and and again building ridership over a six-month period it's hard um and I think here we were able to build ridership pretty quickly there in other communities you might not to start to see ridership until 6 months in there um and and that's you know again there's I've heard you say that for years yeah it's it's it's not easy it's not easy to build ridership for a new Mobility service especially for fixed routes it's much harder um but again I think the results that we've seen here comparison to a lot of communities that we operate were extremely positive and this it shows what this could be for the future and again how this be become a permanent staple obviously financing is always going to be one of the biggest questions and we work hand inand with all of our Community Partners to figure out really just creative ways to help subsidize the program in the best ways possible and again there's different mechanisms there's nothing perfect um and but there there's definitely mechanism out out there to reduce that cost thank you I'll go ahead and thank you pass along great and I think uh commissioner G had one quick question before I asked my questions thank you Vice may I really do appreciate it uh but first a comment that I know that you doubled in your writers ship but we also went from non- tourist season to tourist season and in a county that brings in 15 million people uh for you know is tourists we'd be surprised if we didn't do that but my question is is actually back to financing and this is probably more of a George question um where will the funding come from where are we looking at this as far as to be budgeting so the original six-month pilot project was funded through a BPI and arpa money was assigned to that so I would have to probably get with if if the commission decides to continue the program whether it's for six months or for a permanent designation um I'd have to get together with the city manager and our finance director and determine whether that continues as a BPI with additional funding requests uh and I don't know if arpa dollars can go back to that or if I have to go general fund those are conversations I'd have to have with L but we'd have to figure out how to fund that thank you um okay well that was certainly going to be one of my questions so cool um so it is difficult to to make a decision though if we don't have an identified funding source I'm just going to put that out there um so um you know a lot of everything's been that I had was asked um you know I'm looking for deeper stats same thing that you've heard up here the you know the purpose of this was reducing traffic and solving our parking issues and and again uh I think the stats um you know you can't dig in and really get to that in my opinion I don't think you have enough um you know people that responded and enough deep information to understand you know who's really coming here going to the parking spot leaving cuz I agree like you're not I mean in my opinion you are not going to park and then move to go over at Catina so I'm going to go to hanu I'm going to rep Park I mean I just don't see that because again you're lucky to get a spot you don't want to move from your spot we have a very walkable City and um so I'm looking for things that tell me true impact them parking um how many uh exact pickups and drop offs by parking are people really using the the hospital Lots which was kind of one of the thinking like that's where a lot of spaces are but then people want to go downtown or they want to go to the marina uh something like that so I think um if we're going to continue this for six more months we got to find a way to get the deeper stats that are really going to tell us like are we really solving our issues or just moving people around you know I me life kind of cracks me up because I you know my mother lives a me life so I've been there a lot so I see people using it they love it I mean I can see where that and it's kind of cool for Den Eden to kind of bring the me life people down more into the community cuz they like it I mean I um uh I I've I've I ask them when I'm there and people come down they go for dinner they enjoy it um the the drivers are very friendly when people have walkers and you know unless they got a full vehicle you know they're very accommodating um because I thought I think early on like the thing was oh you got to if you've got a special issue you might have to wait for a special vehicle in this case they just try to make it work and typically it does um the other day I asked some ladies three ladies were going downtown and two of them had Walkers and they were making it work and I said oh where you going and they said oh we're just going to ride around so I mean so I mean you know and I thought okay that's not actually why we developed it but that's kind of cool right cuz they feel part of something and uh I mean that goes to you know we've created the Disney ride so to speak I guess so uh and they are cool so you know multiple reasons but it gets back to deeper stats of you know we still want to solve the primary issue I mean that's why we created this it's a lot of money and it is an ongoing expense like commissioner Walker was highlighting um I um we got ask a lot of you know we've talked about the on demand model personally I think the UN modified on demand is great and if we're going to go forward for six months we should do something like that um um these particular vehicles like how far how far out could they go if we wanted them to like what's the are these the vehicles that can't go on a road that's 35 miles or above or what's the what's the restrictions the Restriction is it can't be on any road that's over over 40 40 and above so could be on a 35 mph Road it can cross over 40 mph roads but it just can't drive up and down a road that is 40 miles hour okay but they can be on a 35 M hour road okay um I mean I'll just say this I you know I'm a little bit limited right now so uh taking a ride sometimes versus walking is good um I use the app I like the app um I was going from me life to get to as close to my house so I could walk the rest of the way which I'm about a mile out of town and um and the driver maybe a half mile and the driver took me all the way home which was great and and I guess my thought process is and I want your response to this it just seems like if we're going to get to True numbers of solving the issue of keeping car you know reducing cars in our downtown reducing our parking problem you know what I was told was that your drivers will go a little bit out of the Zone if they can depend depending on what their other demands are to take somebody home they won't come to your home out of the zone and it it seems to me that we're trying to keep people from taking their car so it would make sense and that goes back to on demand it would make sense to expand the zone and pick people up at their home and take them in an UND demand fashion um let me respond to that I guess yeah I would say again going back to you guys' main goals of freeing up parking getting cars off thead Road that's the way you're going to do it it's going to you're really if you're if you're able to get picked up at your home and driven into the downtown I mean why would you take your car out and that is what we're solving across so many different communities there um so I mean again if we can do it in the most ideal way that would be the most ideal way to operate this service you expand the the service area a little bit and you allow residents to come to and from the downtown without having to take their car and that's truly how you're going to see that that big impact of car reduction traffic reduction freeing up parking um and again you might not start with you shouldn't you don't start with the whole city start with something a little bit smaller a little bit more of a wider net um and you're going to see great great data all the data you guys are asking for like that is truly how you're going to get that data um because these people have cars and you know if they're using the service to come downtown they're not taking their car don't go anywhere Bob I have a question for you so stay play for a minute ahead sorry but yes that that would I mean that would be the ideal I told um okay um good try yeah and I mean I guess you know George um like with I know you know Tiki rides obviously does some of that but um their hours are more limited like half the number of hours right and they also have only one vehicle is that correct I I can't answer that without uh I'm not sure again I know it's limited I think we need to understand that in a relationship better because obviously I don't want to you know we we respect our local businesses and and we don't want to U but again I'm just trying to think about what happens for the future Bob so so you're trying to leave let me ask you this question you can come up here um what do I want to understand what you're hearing you know you're out and about in the city I consider downtown you're downtown uh what are you hearing out there I appreciate Bob iron Smith director of Economic Development I you know I'm hearing obviously the writers ship is up I think it exceeded the expectations I think you're all wrestling with really good questions you know data analysis relative to is it uh reducing some of the parking capacity as far as making it a little bit easier to come down down and of course the other one is is obviously the funding cost which is you know obviously a big consideration but you know people like it uh just like when we had the um autonomous uh remember with PSTA we had that people were going on there for ridership so people get excited about anything that's new and the downt okay all right thank you all right you can go now if you want I'm not going anywhere um uh the advertising issue I was a little bit surprised with a 5050 split I mean I would be thinking if we're paying for the service why would you guys get 50% of a split of the advertising well it's two parts if you guys want to break if you guys want to sell the advertising you can keep 100% of that for us we have an entire sales team that again they're salaried they're commissioned there's vehicle ra costs there's there's cost to actually sell the advertising um typically that's why we do a 50-50 split but if you guys said Hey listen we're going to take that on and we'll sell the we'll sell it we'll get a sponsor keep 100% of it sub again it's you know we're flexible okay I get it Jason I still think that's a heavy split even uh you know so um but I understand um and then a question for Jennifer Cohen um the advertising on the vehicle if we go down that road uh what kind of sticky issues are we going to have with types of advertising that we don't like versus what we like I'll have to look at that issue H I'll have to look at that issue okay you know again I don't want to get into that I don't personally like the advertising on it but I don't know if there's a way to figure out something that makes sense but I don't want to get in any crazy issues either um okay um let me just make sure I mean let me just ask the funding issue one more time is my last question um we don't have a lot of options for funding issue do we I guess the qu first question is how would we fund the additional six months and then I mean and I guess maybe we don't have to approach it yet but again from an ongoing basis if we kept this in any form um got a lot of pressures on the budget so I'm trying to figure out what that would be but how would we fund the next six months if we wanted to get more data that will be RIS Act was that arpa funding so we basically pull from that interest money or just yes okay okay that's all my questions um okay I'm if unless somebody else has another quick question I'm just going to open it to the public or just a quick question um in terms of uh startup cost have we captured the non-recurring element of that um do we we know what what it cost to let's just say theoretically we shut down for a few months and then start back up is there I'm assuming there will be an additional cost to that right um potentially I mean again just the going through the hiring the training and all that uh before in terms of this program you know we took care of all the startup costs I mean we we built out obviously all the charging stations here on our dime was about $15 to $20,000 um in terms of that cost um there wouldn't be too much of a heavy cost okay thank you okay um yeah I mean I do I want to add a comment to that because because the other part of that is to stop and restart and Sue is almost probably the best person for that like what kind of you know you you know you're trying to Brand it in people's minds so you don't really want to stop start stop start correct you want to if you're going to try to get to a workable point where maybe it works for our city you wouldn't want to take a break and restart to under a different model okay she's shaking her head now for those that are watching consistency is key in public transit you want to BU have great okay um I'm going to open it to the public anybody in the public want to come forward and and uh weigh in okay got two people I think coming up can you bring up that picture of the vehicle George my name is Steve sanber I live at 416 Glen Karen Circle I'm a regular Rider fact I was on it twice this week okay that picture right there it says freeb Loop discover downtown dun Eden and I really wonder how many tourists actually know that that's something for free that they can hop on to and ride around town my other question would be is tipping of the drivers expected or is that included with the contract with the city yeah definitely not uh U usually sorry we're taking all the questions and we'll get them at the end after we've heard from everybody okay so that would you know somebody I I do use it I think it's a wonderful program every time I've used it though it has been flagging it down and waving it down um for example in the 400 block of Main Street the pickup is over here at City Hall and and I live downtown so I have the advantage if I walk I'm halfway home before I get over here so I guess that would be is is that the best thing we can do to identify what it is download the Freebie app freebie doneen Loop and then discover downtown this past weekend I had um guests in from Detroit and his last name is freebie and he had the driver convinced that he owned it I kid you not yeah but you know he stayed at the U at the Best Wester and he's got a very serious health issue and it was great I sent it to him from my app I sent it to the hotel I told him to behave and not tear it up brought him to where we went to eat and to send him back home but I don't believe as a tourist I would truly know that that was something available to me for free and maybe I'm wrong but that would be my only input thank thanks Steve hello um my name is Eric Graves 1413 Bayshore Boulevard I live in dun Eden um first of all thanks for supporting freebie so far and please continue it um and I think the point-to-point expansion is a great idea and then another request for consideration would be expanding the days especially during spring training games when they're home games here um I've used it I've recommended it to neighbors and visitors and the feedback is always extreme extr positive I know we've seen some of that in the data um and I think freebie makes our great city um even better for both residents and visitors um as far as rationale on it I think it fits the culture of the Town perfectly I've lived here for a while now freebie is very personal uh friendly it's right sized it's very accessible um the drivers is the face of freebie and the town I've always had incredible experiences with them and anybody that I've recommended it to had the same positive experience the other thing that I'd highlight is it's so well executed um and I don't think that's a given I think some of the questions would indicate oh of course everybody's going to love it you know it's free but there's a lot of things that could go wrong with something like this um people could have bad experiences there could be delays and that has not happened so again I think this is very well executed um it fits the need of the Town um you know I think there's just intuitive parking and driving relief it's great questions on some of the data but there's a lot that's intuitive here with the driving and parking relief environmentally friendly it's quiet it's a great experience especially compared to some of the Alternatives um it supports events like spring training and many others that we do downtown but also I think it's just great for routine use I'm I'm not super old I guess I'm kind of old um I can walk around but it is a great experience I use it as a resident and again I recommend it to visitors and they love it as well um please continue freebie expand the point too option I think at least try it out for a little while and then again that consideration on the service days during spring training would be great so thank you thank you anybody else want to give any input okay I will'll close that um you know quick question before I take comments if I might um so on the off seon because I think uh Mr Samberg is a good example he's up towards what would be con what would be the TD ballpark route so if we were to do this modified on demand would that still be part of the would could somebody up that way still get an on demand um into town yeah we' be even though it's part of the offseason route we'd be able to widen in the net um to capture more of the residential Community here again not the full OPP we can definitely to to where TD ballpark is and around that area absolutely with an on demand service or modified on demand as we're recommending thank you okay um we are I'm going to close public comment and I'm asking oh I'm sorry city manager did you want to say something Jennifer sorry thank you very much vice mayor um I want to uh make a couple comments of course first of all I wanted to hear the input from the city commission and the presentation as well so uh first of all as a partner uh freebie has been uh an exceptional partner um you know from the startup cost to to the way that you run the business to the drivers who are amazing ambassadors and I remember when we had our ribbon cutting uh and I saw you know all the drivers who were not from this area right some of them came I think from South Florida I was wondering how that was going to work out but they educated themselves they're very welcoming when they're in the loop uh uh in the Looper and uh I really appreciate the work that they're doing um staff's recommendation the cover of the Staffing report is to continue the pilot program and I'm not entirely on board with that um in terms of continuing the pilot program as it is uh right now at the full service at the full level of service um you know we talked a lot about um headways and ridership and and those types of things um the remember we started in November correct and that was the height of the season and we got through the season through the the spring training to where we are right now um I work in downtown I live just outside of downtown um I'm here 7 days a week and there are a lot of empty Loops Loopers uh looping around downtown so I'm very concerned about increasing it at its current level of service my other issue is we keep on talking about freebie it's free it's not free it's not free we paid if we continue the pilot program at its current rate we will pay A4 million doll a year and I think that we need to look um 255,000 to be very specific and I think that we need to look at this this program in its entirety um as well as the other services that we have within our downtown we also pay almost a quar million dollars in in parking leases so that will make our our total investment year-to-year half a million dollars uh for transportation parking and looping uh within the downtown so I think that we in in looking at the Looper it's not just about freebie it is about all of the Cities the city's entire investment in downtown and it's also about the expectations that we set for our residents once we continue this service at its current level um they're going to expect us to continue the service forever and ever and we need to understand that that whereas right now it's American Rescue plan act funding which is taxpayer funding on a federal level eventually this will fall to the taxpayers of the city of denen and I think that we need to make any decision moving forward within that context you know whether we get a grant for three years then we're able to extend it and and as Jason said we have to extend the service to extend the grant um looking at it in in its entirety the city commission at the last commission meeting approved a safer grant for six firefighters which will also be due in three years as far as the obligation to the city so we really need to um look at it holistically and comprehensively and not just the the uh the Looper and as a former city planner that hurts me in terms of of the service that this is providing uh as as far as multimodal um I would like the opportunity to work with Jason um to to look at what extension of the pilot program looks like whether or not we need the current level of service moving forward I agree that we should we can't disconnect it and then and then reconnect it if you will but I think um that extending it at at its full service level of service at this point is not necessary throughout the summer and I'd also like to take that opportunity during that time to look take a long hard look at those Revenue sources um the pilot program was supposed to to terminate at this point and so um uh extending it is is I don't think it's a bad thing I like the program itself self and as I said I'm not sure if we need to extend it in its current capacity and I really want to have better information for the city commission as far as how we're going to pay for it and exactly what the impact is on downtown um and and whether or not it's accomplishing and I and I wrote this down the purpose was was to reduce traffic and solve parking and I think that was the vice mayor who said that and so um we can do that we can we can try to figure that out and bring those figures to the city Comm Mission so uh if if uh the city commission is willing and freebie is willing I'd like to sit down and talk a little bit about moving forward at at a uh decreased level of service uh and see what that looks like would you kind of maintain the status quo till you do that or I would like to talk to freebie about that okay and it would be another $127,000 for six months to I mean that that's no I was just asking because of the stop start scenario how do you kind of keep it while you kind of dig in as to whether we should do it at all right well we'll need to bring something to you probably on the 30th of April for sure so yeah um okay um well before we do comments I forgot to get Steve's questions answered I apologize for that um the um I think there two things were do people really identify it as being free that are here living here I mean Jason how would you respond to that um I would say you know always feedback is is good feedback and I definitely understand where he's coming from with with the actual design of the vehicle putting some more messaging on there that hey this is a free ride for you wouldn't hurt it would definitely help um but yeah it's something we can change a panel uh I don't think you have to change the entire R but having more of a hey wave this down and hop in um could work yeah yeah and I don't know how we're messaging it to our hotels and travelers you know that's just another thought um and then the other question is I think Steve it was about tipping drivers is that kind of considered included or yeah it's tipping is definitely not an obligation drivers are not allowed to solicit tips if they provide excellent service and you want to tip them a couple bucks because of that you know that's that's a personal choice but uh we have a zero tolerance policy for soliciting any type of tips okay well I do feel bad I should have tipped Carla but I didn't think they were even allowed to take a tip the other day since she took me all the way home um okay cool um all right so commission comments and I guess I'll start with uh commissioner donga thank you um I asked some questions and I was kind of leading sort of to my where where my position is on this um we actually started this as a um as a Looper to go between the parking areas and and I was not very respectful of that from the standpoint of I thought we really need to do more of an in trust City more of a full range program and test it perhaps in in just a specific area because the main thing that this is attempting to do is to keep people from bringing their cars into the downtown area that's really what it's doing um or what we wanted it to do right now what it does is you bring your car into here and then you just park your car and it stays there now you could drive you can ride around in this well many people don't they're not moving around that much or or they're going to one place to eat or they're going to something maybe they go to one or two places they don't need the Looper to take them there uh then they leave the big benefit in in in this service in my opinion is the INTC city um transportation for us we don't have that um PSTA uh really doesn't have that for us here in in in in Den Eden and this would be some kind of a service that might be able to do that I think it's a great benefit to people that are outside of the downtown area um if you felt like you maybe ate too much you don't have to worry about that you can still drive home from having eaten too much um so it takes that into the equation as well I think it's a service that that we really haven't tested um but we have other results from other cities and I know they've been very respectful um and I think maybe we maybe we should look at that um and we don't necessarily have to create it ourselves I think a point was made about how this is a very unique program it's perfect for us we're a golf cart city um but in this particular case then you don't have to even drive your own golf cart and you don't have to bring it down here and park it if you if you're coming down for a specific reason if you want to drive well then that's fine so I'm I'm really supportive of of a program that would include um some kind of a modified or some kind of a test of uh of an INT City int city transportation for us that concludes perhaps here um in the downtown area you can't do much out outside of that or stays within the barri boundary of of whatever whatever our route is so that I could get off of my friend's house and could get back on it again um but it just then therefore then it keeps the cars down as well it falls under the realm of uh or the concept of sustainability so uh I think I think the testing that we did um was was interesting but I don't think it's conclusive and and should necessarily dictate that we continue with this kind of a program or Another Kind other than go to a broader scale of an INTC City that's what I was for in the very beginning and and remain that way I don't I don't think we solved and resolve the problem but it can be with this program that's that's how I feel um so John are you okay with the with the city manager sitting down and trying to figure out what that might look like great thank you um okay commissioner gal thank you vice mayor uh with all my comments about data and lack of data and it was all kind of focused on right the the primary focus on reducing traffic congestion and and parking issues uh I am glad you're here uh I had mentioned uh 15 million people come to County every year 90% of them come by car and they come by car because we offer no other alternative even those using Tampa Airport and St P Clear Water they rent the car to get here and overall the car congestion that we have it's primarily uh due to tourism and so wouldn't it be nice if we could figure out a way to get those tourists from those airports uh to their destination whether it's one of their Beach communities uh hopefully dun Eden is is is part of that and then once they're here offer something like freebie so that's where we're truly getting cars off the road truly making an an economic impact an environmental impact I know that uh freebie was just turned down on a beach community and I was devastated by that it's like what an opportunity for as long as it takes us to get on to Clearwater Beach or on to Treasure Island or all those Beach communities what an opportunity that would have been for those Beach communities to free that up which make those communities out much more walkable and uh Hotel should be renting bicycles to everybody so if I can get from the airport to my destination and then I can walk I can get freebie I can ride a bike and just really make those Beach communities and make Coastal communities like dun Eden that is the direction I think that we should all be looking to go and in that regard freebie is one of those options um I do like the idea in that in that framework I like the idea that you hit every Hotel within the proximity of our downtown for those people that are at least driving to their hotel destination you're then giving them the option of leaving their car at the hotel and inviting them into our downtown and that to me is is the money that's that's what really adds value uh the fact that we're using uh me life and as we all get older our worlds get a little smaller and the idea that we're offering an opportunity to those residents at me me life to keep that world expanded a little bit they do feel part of our downtown they feel part of our community is just a wonderful wonderful statement on who we are as a community uh but it's all a taxpayer money even the arpa money is still taxpayer money or it's money from the federal government that could be used to help help our our local residents um I I am a True Believer in the On Demand right whether that is from our airports or from our local community how can we keep cars out of our downtown but before we do that uh we do have a local service and I don't want to exclude anybody so I would like us to open that up um a little more if that's what we're thinking of more on demand to allow others to bid on on that project uh but I haven't heard a bad thing about freebie I'm glad you're here I am willing to allow the city manager I agree with that support that on her talking to freebie I guess on the clarifier I I want to know is what does that do for us today on expanding the the program are you saying give us until April 30th and we can make a decision then or what kind of decision are we making today so I think today um you know the comments that you given to Jason I'd like to sit down to Jason with Jason and and George and Kathy to talk a little bit about continuing the program and what that would look like to continue the program until you know for another 6 months uh and and you know I'm not sure what we're going to bring back to you on the 30th it may be an extension of of the agreement or or you know whatever form that takes but I need to sit down with them um to discuss what that looks like moving forward okay so our recommendation today the consensus direction would be just to allow you the opportunity to have that conversation for those conversations okay thank you I am in support of that yeah and assuming we're keeping things the same now I mean again not stopping restarting so to speak so okay just to make sure right which means from today till the end of April right right yeah because uh so commissioner walker uh yes ma'am yeah so first um I I do want to say I U my wife and I have ridden freebie several times and I got to tell you we loved it you know it just and I will 23 auth roling um just can you please remove the uh deputies remove the gentlemen over to the left please okay um but uh I you know it was just uh it was just great and the the drivers that you you guys all brought were you know they're we I know I know a few of them personally and you know they could have picked a better group uh honestly um and it it is it is the right optic for our culture and our downtown I I totally agree with the comments that were made um however uh I I'm going to Echo um what uh the city manager said this is a holistic this is a holistic thing that we need to address and I I just don't think the data is there and I I would just package that data into traffic parking and economic impact to the downtown core Merchants I I just don't know that we have and again I I asked about you know your experience in other markets with capturing this data in the hopes that you can help us help you um but you know there's there is some given there's some things that we're going to have to do in my personal opinion in terms of of how we make sure that we use that as an ends to a means to justify um greatly appreciate your willingness to be a community partner uh hence the the question about other markets um the one thing I do want and I'm going to Echo commissioner gal on demand the on demand uh I I really think uh and you you present a very compelling case with regards to how you do on demand uh but I I just don't know how we have the on demand discussion without at least bringing to um you know to a to a full and open discussion with our local business I I think we we need to allow them the opportunity to present some some element of a of a of a bid on this I so that's that's my thought on that um so anyway I I support the city manager's recommendation and uh that's all I've got thank you commissioner Walker um so um yeah I I agree with a lot of what's been said uh Jason I I do think the freebie Vehicles they fit they're fun that's why I cracked up when I got that from me life oh just driving around and I think uh and and it was funny because I paused at first with that oh we're just driving around because obviously that totally was not you know that wasn't in the goal um but um but when I thought about it I thought well that's pretty cool because again bringing in and you know what we consider kind of our continuing living facility and more into the feel of downtown is a great thing but again it kind of goes back to and you've heard it the holistic traffic parking are we going to solve those issues because again it's fun and it's and it's cool but is it solving our problem too and if we can get to solving our problem too you know then we got you know that's that's that's golden um I um I think that um when I look at the six months I I guess I would call it a good start we we've learned some things I know I have love the app because I think you know the app is really key I know that onethird of the people use the app but if it was more on demand a lot more people would I think and it's easy to use and and so I I like it and I think that um sorry I guess I lost some audience here um so I um I think that uh that helps but again um so I guess I'd say the city manager that what else are we going to learn in the next 6 months because I also agree demand modified On Demand is the path forward I just think that when I think about being at my home and getting and I'm again I'm a mile out of town you know I have friends that'll say hey can we park at your house but a lot of times you know it's a miles a mile and you you know that I'd walk that a lot of times but lot of times you're going to a special event you don't want to so you want to ride in you want to ride out and and I again I think if we can kind of merge that in we might learn a whole new set of uh things during a pilot program um let's see what else I definitely appreciate the flexibility the friendliness that you guys have shown in doing this um I think I think that kind of covers it so I'm clearly um also on board with the city manager sitting down and working through what an extension or expansion might look like um and how we can again almost have um six-month pilot program part two and again as we dive in and dig in to figure out is there a potential solution here that actually solves our problem and also fits the need so so uh that's it um okay so I think you have your direct vice mayor may I make a comment there I don't want a misunderstanding here any shape manner form um you asked me if I were I'm not putting this on you uh you asked me if I was supportive ofer talking with them I certainly am but not necessarily with the constraint of of just of continuing this for six months or modifying that somehow I think we need to move on with this I mean for me for me the my step my first step would have been a a modified uh program um on a fixed route uh for me for what I thought we could probably do I was I love the concept that we're a golf cart City and and I think we should we should really strive we're get we're going to I keep asking and we're going to see an update to that coming up soon where we can get have much more flexibility of getting around some numbers 69% of people want to be able to take the golf carts around uh in this particular case um we've got a parking problem and and we've got money that we're spending on on on on SP on on uh on leases Etc um we haven't solve that problem with this with this uh with this system this system can and it has it has in other cities um so I'm I I don't want to say that I'm in support of her just going and extending this I'm in favor of her sitting down with them and seeing what where can we go next with this understood no we're not we're we're on the same page I think she'll bring back every option that she thinks makes sense and we'll go from there and again for I think for all of us it's all about solving the problem and pushing that against the fact that it's taxpayer dollars especially if it's ongoing so no I appreciate your clarification um okay I think uh you have your consensus good thank you okay great okay and uh thank you Jason thank you George thank you Kathy thank you everybody thank you Bob for staying you're welcome and thank for the comments citizens those are helpful um okay I think uh next we go to commission discussion um anybody have um a thing to discuss I'll go to John first um this is where we yeah this is I didn't get any emails so is there anything at all from anybody thank you for commission I've just got uh just one thing then I'm going to have to get at um the uh Sterling Society garden party is this Sunday and the trolley is picking people up at the Fine Art Center at 4:00 um and the the I don't have uh I don't uh anyway that that's how how it's going to be managed is just basically trolley service from the Fine Arts Center to the venue for the defc garden party sorry yeah the Fine Arts Center gotcha okay that's all I've got great and did you want to I didn't want want you to stay if you didn't have to we might finish this up in 3 minutes so oh I I can stay okay good I know you have a hard stop um okay so um if there's nothing else for commission discussion I'll go to city clerk's update okay uh city manager update four score and seven years ago okay I'm kidding nothing okay any questions for the city manager because she did provide her update okay nothing okay City attorney update nothing okay you guys are easy today and commission comments I'll start with uh commissioner Walker you gave yours but do you have anything else um okay commissioner gal yes I do vice mayor uh I need just need to clarify my comments uh the last from the last meeting and which we talked about the need for salary increases and apparently I scared my mother and a lot of her friends over over my comments on I just want to stay in my home I just need to tell the the residents unen I am fine I didn't mean to overreact that was actually quite emotional for me just the idea is like every other resident in the city uh my property insurance doubled in the last two years and I have two vehicles in each of my vehicles the insurance doubled and so it just gets a little stressful um so uh but have taken care of I to shop around my home insurance so at the end of the day it didn't double but that's just because of effort that we had to go through and and residents shouldn't have to shop their insurance every year so anyway I just wanted to clarify that I'm not in jeopardy of of losing my home so thank you thank you commissioner gal uh commissioner TGA I have nothing great and uh and and thank you for that it's always a reminder that what our citizens go through as well right with our insurance and my mother was quick to tell me that was public thanks Mom anyway um Okay I uh I don't think there's is there anything else for the good of the order okay meeting [Music] [Music] adjourned e