[Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] welcome everybody to our February 6th uh City commission work session we will call this meeting to order and if you'll uh join us and Jennifer who will lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America the rep for it stands one nation under God indivisible withy and justice for all okay we have no presentation so we'll go on to uh citizen input anyone wishing to speak to an item that is not currently on the agenda please feel free to come forward and uh you'll have three minutes seeing or hearing none we'll move to the consent agenda we have the approval of the minutes for January 11th the board and committee appointments to board of Finance Environmental Quality and Edgewater Drive committee the third amendment to caretaker agreement for Weaver [Applause] Park the Jenny and Community Center fitness equipment replacement the purchase of the ultimate bagger sandbag machine and the Award of construction for East sludge wet well and grit removal ug may you mention did you mention item 2D the downtown didn't need Merchant oh no I didn't I skipped right over it downtown Merchant Association Morty gr revocable license agreement are there any items to be pulled 2f please I was going to pull it too anything else okay can I have a motion to approve so move so move oh second sorry commissioner gal and vice mayor fry um are there is there any public input for these items seeing or hearing none all in favor signify by saying I I any opposed motion passes unanimously and uh we'll go back to the ultimate bagger John did you just have questions or thank you mayor yes I I think we're all proud of this and I think this is something that's very needed in the community and a little video would be really cool yeah and jory's on the job and she's leaving so no I don't think I don't think she's on the job for the for the video so much for the video that's it's Sue do we have a video for this Sue I think you had to go to the link yeah who are you looking for she asked that's all right maybe you do a presentation well you know what we can we can go on to the next item and we can come back to this so if you want to just we can do it under informational too we can dig it up sure so we'll we'll remember to go back to it okay all right so uh is that okay with you John we wa yes ma'am okay so we'll move on to ction items which is the award of bid for our fiscal year 24 M and overlay contract for Asphalt Paving in the amount of 1, 398,000 in change hi Mary good morning mayor Vice Mayors Commissioners Mary sheets city engineer I'm here today to present you some information on the award of our 2024 Paving program I can find my paper aha so every year the city prepares a Paving plan and it is awarded to a company that will perform the milling and overlay in conjunction with some minor curb and drainage repairs the roadways were evaluated by agile assets to determine the highest priority of streets that we could do for the funding available the project received six submittals with Bridge range ing anywhere from $1,398 884 to 1,656 $80 asphalt paving systems provided the most responsible and lowcost bid however due to some budgetary constraints you'll see that there's a subsequent change order under agendum item 3B to this award that will we will ask to be recommended for approval immediately following this commission action a PS has successfully completed several projects of similar size and scope and nature and therefore staff recommends the commission approval of the bid to Asphalt Paving systems in the amount of 1,398 okay questions for Mary Vice Mary anything you know my only question I I'm trying to understand how the brick streets fit in what we're doing with brick streets I mean I see the Brick Street condition but is that a mistake because I didn't see that in here no the brick streets are not part of this caving program The Brick streets are separate I think I think that got pulled up by accident yeah well it's kind of funny because I'm like cuz I CU it was my question I didn't see it in the actual agenda item it's sitting up on our screen so mayor may I yeah so during agenda briefing uh a vice mayor asked about brick streets and what our priorities were for Brick streets and and of course I forwarded that request to staff and they were had a a backup available in case they're putting it ahead of the yeah okay there you go yeah I I I guess just uh is this the item I should ask so what's our what is our plan I mean when will we be understanding when we're going to actually do more brick streets we have an evaluation of the brick streets that you can see up on the screen that was done in 2022 currently the if you'll scroll down to the bottom please the red streets are the ones that are the highest priority and they are wilky lley wood and Richmond streets are the ones that were evaluated by the last evaluation by agile assets is the ones that would need to be replaced first is that because of cost or because um I know there's other uh there's other legs of Santa Barbara that people ask about and I just want make it's based on the actual condition of the road it was done with a visual inspection okay so these are next in line yes ma'am okay and so do we know a timeline is when that'll happen or currently we have about $300,000 available for the Brick Street program for 2024 and that's probably not enough to do more than one or two of these streets we have not prioritized them yet okay so is that something you'll come back to us with yes ma'am okay great thank you any other questions on brick streets uh no not in Brick streets are you asking me I'm just asking everybody so that we kind of stay on the subject any other questions about brick streets it is in conjunction with with the brick streets I have a question and and that is and and almost a comment but a question can you can you just give us a brief perhaps Jorge uh a just a brief layout of how we determine this we know that up here uh people that may be listening to this may be wondering how how'd this come about and we have a great program here in the city uh for streets of of how we evaluate them and and and what how we determine where we're going to spend the money so we just need to know the amount of money that we have to spend and then we know which streets we uh that we want to take care of so I think that's a a very valuable input as as I said we hired a company agile assets to go out and physically review The Brick streets as well as the asphalt streets to determine which ones were in worse condition and they broke it down as you can see on the screen based on by rankings on which ones were in the worst condition which ones didn't need any improvements right now and as I noted the four streets in red are the ones that are going to need to be replaced first so that takes place throughout the entire city yes sir and this they they review all of the brick streets they review all of the asphalt Street all the other streets correct thank you um can you scroll back up so I can okay so when you talk about the replacement and I know you're going to come back you're just talking about the the area that's in red yes not the rest of the street yes that is correct okay well I guess we'll have to talk about that okay um yeah and I I guess we don't do this together because they're two different bids yes yes two different types two different skill sets yeah two different skill sets you're correct okay any questions on the regular streets ASA streets ID mayor if you don't mind uh how do we determine the amount that we spend on because I know that is it by mile is it by the number of streets and degree of of Maintenance that needs to occur I have a guest uh oh good morning mayor vice mayor Commissioners thought I'd throw Maria bone here so the agile asset software that she mentioned is a program that we implemented several years back and what it has is a built into it it has algorithms that have a decision tree um given the the extent of deterioration on that on that particular Road segment it takes and it prioritizes the available funding as far as funding we currently have 2/3 funded out of the penny and 1/3 out of the gas tax so we budget essentially around a million dollars a year on asphalt roadways and to the vice mayor's question earlier we have a separate line item budget for restoration of brick streets um to her earlier question uh the ones that are noted on this map the assessment was a visual assessment done by the agile assets team uh initially and and we're going to have them come back through and reassess here in the next year or so but um as well aware the the segment that we did on Santa Barbara recently that was very costly because it wasn't just the typical rting that you see on on brick streets for example adjacent to City Hall Wood Street they would have to be U removed the base uh releveled and the bricks reinstalled and that would take care of the ruding and what's called it's creeping that you get where the bricks kind of move over time based on the traffic and stop and starts that occur on the roadway when you have segments of road that have base failure as was the example on uh Santa Barbara that was a much more extensive project that's one that we'll have to identify and separate out in the CIP uh going forward as we prioritize additional Road segments because as you know that was a very costly project so there's essentially the relatively inexpensive fixes for where you have just the normal wear and tear on a brick street over time you get the rting where the tires uh all the vehicles travel and then you have situations where there's a base failure and then that's much more extensive project because now you're having to not only take up the bricks but remove the base install under drain systems install some type of um geofabric to span the the part of delarius material that's underneath so um I don't know if I want went off the the deep end on that or not but it's funding and the difference between the two types of road right well my question was more General than focused on the brick streets but as far as the ruts and the wear and tear that's kind of the same thing we look at on the asphalt as well right and there's some asphalt roads that are very costly if you remember several years back we did Michigan and other roadways that were FD full depth Reclamation because at that point the base had failed to the extent where you essentially it's a Mill and resurface on steroids they they grind down about 6 in remove the base put that back and then they'll put the asphalt back on top so that's that's also much more expensive typical Mill and overlay and then as you you you measure that right there's different degrees of of failure or wear and tear whatever you want to call it and it gets to a point where okay we need to have some maintenance now on this road Do We Gather that data and the cost and then that's our budget or do we just budget what we think is a good amount for maintenance and then then how many roads can we fit into that budget and how does that how does that work so it's an excellent question actually so when we first when I first started here they were spending somewhere in the neighborhood of $100,000 a year on uh resurfacing we couldn't even attract biders at that time so we had this initial assessment done we um purchased the agile asset software and typically you know Common senses you do worse to first but with a a software like we have and the algorithms that are built in you actually want to get a roadway if you look at a deterioration curve on uh for asphalt um it basically does one of this and then it just tanks so you want to get to the road before that happens so you can continue to extend its life if the road has already passed that point of no return then you really just put that off to a side and you set then you start to build a capital project around that because you don't want to do worse to First you want to attack the roads that you can keep at a good condition and that's known as a PCI payment condition index and at the time that we did the assessment in order to have an average PCI of 75 to 80 or so the dollar amount was about a million dollar which is how we set our budget based on current biddings and the market I think we need to reassess that we probably need more than a million dollars in order to keep that that average PCI because if they start to drop then we're going to have more and more of those more expensive failures okay and You' mentioned 2third is coming from Penny and one3 is from the gas tax correct is is that a formula and how do you come out with that 2/3 1/3 um that's probably a good question for Les and Ashley but I think we just tried to identify from the available gas tax funding that we get from the county because remember Public Services utilizes a portion of of County gas tax for um the patchwor that they do in order to extend a certain roadway before we can get to a full depth you know resurfacing so they'll they'll utilize that on the operating side for patchwor throughout the city um throughout the course of the year until we can get a a Paving contract in place they utilize it for sidewalk repair and other stuff so um we basically took that available pot of money that we get from the county made sure that we could address the operational expenses that are necessary and the remainder ended up being that 1/3 okay and you had mentioned that sidewalks and just a small Rabbit Hole um it's one3 one one3 of the gas yeah one3 of the gas tax here is going towards the roads and maybe this is for less and maybe this comes in street I guess what I'm getting toward is historically right the gas tax is for the maintenance of the roads correct uh but we're seeing more and more of the penny being used uh because the wear and tear is outpacing the tax that we receive or we are diverting some of that tax to other purposes leaving us to use the penny for the for the maintenance well yes so the amount of gas tax funding that we get if that was solely dedicated to Road resurfacing it wouldn't be sufficient it's so it's the former and as you know that that amount is starting to decline readily because of the prevalence of EVS they don't pay gas tax right so that needs to be addressed somehow but um in a previous life Sue and myself uh we made the argument um at the county they spend or they used to they may have increased that but they spend about $7 million a year on on road resurfacing and um we County Roads County Roads and they we were able to essentially make the case that you should utilize infrastructure sales tax Penny tax because that's allowed when you increase the service life of an asset over 7 years so that becomes an eligible expenditure for Penny dollars if you can do that and any road resurfacing project usually extends the surface life at least 10 years so that's why we utilize Penny to augment gas tax in order to maintain that that payement condition index that we want to try to strive at before the roads start to deteriorate to a point that then it becomes more costly okay is there anything that the city or the county is doing to help curb the need for repair on the cars or are we just at the mercy of the people coming here and the wear and tear I you you talked about when you first came here it was approximately $100,000 mhm and now the cost is$ 1.4 million and we didn't budget enough for that right we have to have a value reduction uh so I'm wondering where it stops when when are we spending enough on our roads especially when 23 of is coming from penny that we could use for other you know we just seem to be going that's just the way it is that's the cost of a community as opposed to trying to reduce anything and I think you know where I'm going with my conversation is the number of cars that we have and lack of multimodal transportation and bike lanes and walkability reducing the amount of Cent te on our roads I I understand your comment sir um I guess you know we don't have the ability to put up uh Road Blocks on streets I mean we we can't prohibit somebody that doesn't live in the city to drive through City roads um the same applies to County on on County Roads you've got folks driving across County and state roads um so you can't really limit that unless you limit the number of vehicles entering um the city so but it's almost like any other asset one once once you build the asset you have to maintain it so you know going forward it would be um criminal for us to just sit back and not fund um the replacement and the restoration of those roadways because then they would fail at a pretty exponential rate so um I understand the comment um but given the expenditure uh that's occurring and the increase in costs I I don't see where we can't um recommend at least that we spend more than a million dollars a year um we're going to be doing a lot more of these award followed behind with a value engineering reduction uh for the foreseeable future just because in this case we had I think six or seven biders and um you know if we're going to stay within budget we have to we had to basically go back and and look at the ones that were proposed in the current contract that's this first agenda item that you'll award uh and look at priority wise which was the least high of those Road segments pulled those out and moved them to the next uh 25 contract that we'll do but if we don't address maintaining a recommended pavement condition index going forward then we're going to be doing more and more of that for the foreseeable future based on the cost of fuel and everything else and I'm certainly not proposing that right um now asphalt is a petroleum based product correct how much are we at the mercy of the price of oil what impact does the price of oil have on the price of asphalt um I'd say they're pretty linearly related okay so okay thank you mayor I'm done Walker anything uh yes ma'am thanks um so how much did we how much did we budget and spend last year for this um we had $1 million plus two $200,000 for corrections to curb and gutter and some drainage adjustments okay and it sounds to me and I just I'm just looking for some clarification on my understanding um from Community perspective my understanding that there is a master plan for specifically Street improvements is there such a thing there's a priority list there's a priority list okay right thanks okay that's that good I I'm just that's good confirmation for me um and that priority list is based on this PCI this degradation and curation yes okay all right um okay and just in terms of okay so we you know we budgeted a million dollars this year and it's coming in at about 1.4 can you detail just high level what are the major forcing functions the the price increases well as we already discussed the price of petroleum has gone up which directly affects the price of the asphalt I did some looking on the Dot's database and their projects have all increased significantly for asphalt paving okay all right no thank you on reg anything on regular streets from you guys questions I I have a question um so I understand where the monies come from or where they were budgeted to come from uh from this um and so in this particular project here we've identified the areas that that we wanted to qualify for this and we established that and and selected that and we're presenting that today correct um and that was that was based on on basically almost a minimum uh that's the thing I just want to get clarified because that affects the next issue um basically the minimum requirements for us uh the the issue became one as been explained to us in the past is that if you don't correct the street in time you end up with more degreg and and a problem so so this was sort of the minimum requirement that we were that that you were asking for and we had agreed to and we went out to bid for correct correct thank you okay uh anybody from the public wish to come forward and speak to this item all right can I have a motion to approve so moved okay uh commissioner torga and commissioner um Walker okay final comments commissioner Tor anything uh no I appreciate the presentation here and the understanding for people that are listening to this um and uh and I'm very I'm very supportive of of uh of the street program and in in making sure that our level of service or that our um that our ability to to have a have a good road system within the city of den Eon is very important thank you commissioner Walker yeah the uh quality of our streets and our sidewalks and everything associated with is a the visual component of um functioning and uh you know just beautiful community so I'm very supportive of this uh but I appreciate the detail that went into this and understanding you know how those costs U have increased so thank you vice mayor yeah no again I'm just like everybody else um you know it's important to keep up our streets um obviously this is something we have increased funding on over the years we may have to do it again um which I'd be supportive of again when we talk about the reasons we're here this is a very basic reason we're here to keep these kinds of things up so um supportive of this commissioner gal I certainly am support of this as well as jge mentioned it's just as important to maintain our assets it is when we purchase them so it's it's to me it's not a matter whether we approve this or not or approve the next one yeah it's part of what we do in dun Eden it's no different than storm water or anything else that that we do my only ask is that this is a uh an increasing cost I prices are not going to go down or they're going to fluctuate that makes it very hard to budget as we're seeing here today and one of the options that we have is to try and reduce the need for the maintenance I just think it's logical to do that it just makes sense to me phys physical sense physical responsibility not to mention quality of life and environmental as well um but yes this is absolutely necessary it's part of our infrastructure so I'm in approval thank you commissioner [Music] um thinking back over the 18 years that I've been approving Street projects um we used to get around 600,000 from the gas tax and we would spend you know a lot of it on road repaving and that was our budget and as that kept going down to what 450 or something and now I think it's in the 300s I don't right um we I was so happy um when Jorge brought the program that the county uses into Den Eden it was well worth the money to do that and to have a strong evaluation process um that that looked at data um that would eventually save us some money versus you know it's my neighbor's Street pave it you know that kind of thing it uses quality data so I'm very happy and even at that time Jorge you told us we were going to have to spend a million dollars a year at least to make a dent in you know to make the system work and we agreed to do that so I'm very happy with that um uh I I would ask if and I know there's extending circumstances but Douglas Avenue a block before Maine and a block after main is looking pretty raggedy and bad I mean just you know the down little downtown portion of Douglas um it just looks like it needs some help and and it also has those inlaid uh medians that we want to get rid of and I'm sure we're trying to wait for that development project but I mean it just looks poor so I just throw that out there for yall to discuss okay um all in favor signify by saying I I I any opposed motion passes unanimous unanimously I see we now have our video up for our sandbagger a with an ultimate backer this mobile bagging Factory can volumetrically fill up to 12200 bags per hour thanks to its many modern features to prevent your material from bridging or packing inside the 2 cubic yard H steep agitated walls Shake only while material dispenses the feeder belt pulls material away from the hopper allowing bagging to safely continue while the hopper is being filled at The Filling Station the operator activates each bag cycle with the positional touch switch bag clamps hold hold the bag at the spout during filling allowing the operator to prepare the next bag the easyto ous control box with LCD display allows for ultimate productivity tracking set the belt run time accurate to 100th of a second for precise repeatable filling set the number of bags per pallet as you fill the machine will count each bag and alert you when you have reached your pallet count use the different dispensing modes for filling bulk bags pots boxes and other containers once a bag reaches its set weight the clamps will drop it onto the bag closing system where it's conveyed through a sewing head and onto the pallet stacking position close 8 to 10,000 bags with each King's pool at bread when you're finished bagging easily retract the feeder belt and lower and Stow the bag closing table below the ultimate bagger breaks down to a single crate with built-in Fork tubes total footprint only 7x4 ft the machine is easy to learn and comes with 24-hour customer support the 2-year 1 million cycle warranty provides the peace of mind that your bagging operation will be trouble-free long after the machine has paid for itself for more information including additional videos and pricing on your new Ultimate bagger visit sandbag [Music] store.com Jennifer Merry [Laughter] Christmas no I sue um and her team worked on um all sorts of different Baggers um and I know it's been a long time coming uh the mayor asked about this six years ago when I first got before and Jorge said no it's Jorge's fault well I wouldn't go that far but anyway no he did he said no it's a waste of money we found this this particular uh machine to be uh the most efficient um the you know the number of employees it will have to be operated by by city employees and so we are working on you know Sops for deploying the sandbags uh first and foremost in those areas that are prone to flooding and we've had meetings with residents to to that end um and so and to have everything up and running uh by the beginning of hurricane season as well so soon as we get it we can start deploying those those sandbags to the areas that that are experiencing sunny day flooding and then uh as part of a hurricane Expo we'll introduce the uh the ultimate bagger uh to the residents uh in general and and move forward from there so we're excited about it it's going to make our operation a whole lot more efficient um and and really help out our residents uh as well so we're we're we're happy about it and thank you uh for allowing us to purchases that this $69,000 is coming out of fund balance out of reserves we did not budget for it this year so I wanted want to be very clear about that um as well thank you mayor okay any questions for our team I do mayor sure 1,200 what is is Staff going to work as fast as they did at the end of that video fast that was that was very impressive very impressive uh and it's 1,200 an hour do you know over the last couple years just a random question do you know how many bags we ended up using giving out do you remember the um the last little Northern Storm the El Nino storm that we got in and we opened the sandbag site for one day and then we went ahead and we opened it again the next day because the storm had not quite gotten here so we opened it up for about a half a day we distributed 12,000 sandbags at that time yes so if that gives you some idea um and um and that's a routine um item for us to do with hurricane prep um this is extremely efficient just just uh to stick up for Jorge a little bit the um other bagger like like Jennifer said we looked at a lot of different ones and there are some that are partly manual and part you know automatic and um they don't that particular one did not reduce our labor in any way did not increase our speed and um it it did help put the sand there um up to now the operation has been right you you show up we have the bags you have uh shovels and you fill your own bags and put them in your um car and then you know we we Aid those who are unable to do so themselves um this allows us to pre-stage um prefill the bags put them on pallets and deliver them to our site so it should we should realize a great efficiency for our citizens in distribution as well as um doing them in advance at the hurricane Expo and then to some of the areas that are prone to um Coastal inundation of flooding so um in uh when we're looking at um efficiencies sometimes you have to make an investment and that's what this is just like you just discussed about the roads and the pavement making that um investment on the front end pays off in the other end sometimes in efficiency and service improvement this will be a great service improvement it will also keep our staff uh fresher for the storm and storm recovery because they um that's a pretty labor intensive operation and this allows as you can see you can you can really push them out it even sews them shut it also makes sure that the sandbags are the right size the right you know filled to the correct capacity um to work properly so there's a lot of good advantages so if I may add also uh we have a pamphlet that Sue um uh beress in Communications has developed to hand out to Residents when we deploy the sandbags as well because you need the sandbags plus you need visqueen or you need a tarp or you need some sort of waterproof covering as well and the combination of those two should protect property much better than than they are now but you need much more than just the sandbags in order to to try to prevent the water from from getting in it's a great point because sandbags do not stop water they just slow the flow they take the weight right and then the plastic will yeah and will there be anything in that pamphlet on how to properly dispose of the sandbag yes yes it includes a portion of how to dispose of those sandbags and right and that disposal is basically Solid Waste um the right go ahead soon um yes it's a penel County Solid Waste um uh you you um if the bags have been flooded once they're contaminated with um a storm surge a storm water yes then that sand needs to be handled properly and discarded into Solid Waste yes you can um if it hasn't been you can just dump the sand and hold your sandbags till later we actually did go through Baywood Shores and collect sandbags last year we arranged with the county um a special um place that we could go and dump them and we did pick up through through Baywood Shores and actually Mark and his folks took a loader out there and then just picked him up uh from the different neighbor Neighbors and and I know we have this conversation again certain as we get closer to hurricane season but just since it's here in front of us today um and part of that disposal in solid way you talk about P County for the residents is the green barrels right they can dispose them in the green barrels or just special process no it's not green Barrel concern just a special process yes okay not the green barrels and as long as that special process is in it's on our website now yes and the County website and yes and it is in the pamphlet okay very good all right thank you very much welcome commissioner uh yeah just quick question um are we um is there a timeline when we think this will be up online and running or not to put your feet to the fire on this if the commission approves it um we we hope to see it shortly it does include training so um we're hoping to receive it within the next two weeks and have the training um and then we'll be able to begin fantastic thank you 202 Mark says is the training set up questions um no I don't have don't have any question question s okay um I don't have any questions either I just have comments so anybody from the public wish to speak to this item okay seeing or hearing none can I have a motion to approve second okay commissioner gal and commissioner TGA commissioner gal final comments uh I it's a long time coming as it's already been mentioned here so I think the residents will be excited I think they're waiting on the we ite when they can just like a Domino's Pizza they can order their sandbags and then watch it being made and when it will be delivered is going to be the next step for our residents in just commissioner too in summary we asked we got thank you residents this is your money smart at work and finally for those of you in the military sure wish we had one of these in Vietnam MH vice mayor yeah no I think this is really important I mean when you think about it and you think about the labor whether it's our staff or people out in our community you know injuries make up for you know $69,000 is nothing compared to you know the effort that goes into it the potential for injury um but I also think it's a this is huge in terms of our commitment to some of our low-lying areas who are struggling and and this is just one of the things that we can do to help the situation so I'm really glad we were getting it I'm glad it's happening fast and I'm glad we're you know making this available particularly to our our most vulnerable areas thank you commissioner Walker thank you oh that was quick well I'll tell you we um I learned about this at the mayor's Council lunches um Doug beas was the former mayor in olar and he brought it forward when we were talking all things storm related and said just how wonderful whatever machine they had but a bagger was um for our employees but also for our residents because I mean we all know that a lot of the guys in a neighborhood will go get bags for the the little old ladies that are sitting at home and can't do it on their own and here they don't have to shovel the sand and fill their bags and tie it off and do all those things um they still may need help getting him out of the car but uh it's it's it will be a much quicker service many of our storms we've had long lines for the sandbags this will move so much quicker and pre-staging them so it's all around good for everybody and I'm really excited I I literally did a woohoo when I saw the agenda Jennifer laughed at me okay you don't want to do that here and no I moved on okay uh all in favor signify by saying I I I any opposed good job guys thank you all righty I think I got everything over here all right now we're going to approve that change order for the mill and overlay contract good again as was noted in the preceding agenda item 3 a this project was Sy engineer the scope and we did this by actually removing an area from the paving plan this particular area was the lowest priority and will be immediately put into the 2025 budget but doing this in value engineering we value engineered the cost at 1,1 181,000 45 and that brings the project within budget and therefore staff recommends the approval of the change order number one to amend the prior Award of bid number 24252 to Asphalt Paving systems for the price of 1,1 181,000 45 okay umov okay second vice mayor fry and commissioner gal questions for Mary just a comment okay uh any public uh comment on this all right so uh commissioner fry no I think this is good I think the value engineering made sense and when I was talking to Jennifer behind the scenes um it sounds like you know these changes make sense the the roads that were going to be done can be deferred that would have been the ones that are being changed so I'm in support of this okay commissioner gal no M thank you mayor um upon further consideration uh having read this and having had a discussion about this issue I am probably going to vote no on this um I you know first of all we're using the word value engineering and really what we mean is we're just simply cutting cutting some of the project out and and I understand why we're doing that because we're concerned about the budget I would like to go back because I think this is really important I'd like to go back to staff and ask staff um wherever that level is whether that's just at the at the finance um side or what um that we continue with the plan that we had uh the one point uh almost 4 million um because of of the requirements of of us as as a as a municipality to continue with our roads and the condition that they're in and and you heard the mayor say as as well is that we've got some roads that that need some attention so I would like to figure out a way to find the monies uh within our system to continue on that project I say that because I stood very strong in 20222 uh when we had arpa and and I would have liked to have seen us do a lot more roads than what we did so I'm supportive of the previous uh presentation and wished we had even done more than that so again I'd like to go back to ask staff to figure out how to how to accomplish this perhaps something else has to give but uh but so be that I think I think that our roads are are very important to us and I know I've heard I've heard a number of of residents Andor shall I say constituents uh talk about our roads and just having a good concern about it so uh that's that's at at least at this point in time unless there's uh additional information that's provided that's what i' like to see happen on this particular issue Jennifer do you um or Mary somebody want to tell us which projects were removed the project that was removed was the area um of M Marjan Avenue Jon Street Manor Drive West between Patricia Avenue and Virginia Street and how do you feel about that I'm not trying to put you on the spot I I feel like the and I actually went out and Visually inspected all of the streets that were put into the system or put into the program this year I do think that if we defer it for a year it's not going to be disastrous but it definitely will be the top of 2025 okay and maybe we need to look at that during budget time because if you're deferring it then you're taking away from the next project that's correct which you know I think is probably part of commissioner T's concerns certainly would be M correct if I if I could yes ma'am um so your verbage is interesting I mean I asked this exact question to the city manager yesterday um and and I I think Jennifer at least the verbiage of it wouldn't be disastrous is a little concerning you know the verbiage I think you use is not a problem at all it can easily be deferred not a concern very different wording so I guess I just in order to because actually John I was on the same page originally so I I think it's important question is it you know borderline not disastrous or is it really not an issue because I think that's really important that was a poor choice of words and I apologize for that the roads are actually in pretty good shape and for from my visual inspection would not have any significant additional damage for another 5 to six years okay thank you Mary appreciate that may okay I just I just want to make sure that I think if I understood the concerns from the deis it was if we do delay this a year then this will eat into the 2025 budget but we haven't created the 2025 budget yet and through the previous comments earlier from Jorge I'm already anticipating the request for an additional for adding to the road maintenance so I don't know where delaying this is going to take away at all from any streets that are targeted for maintenance in 2025 is that is is that true is that the possibility that this what we do today will impact what we do in 2025 that's correct commissioner I I stopped trying to uh second guess what the commission might do a long time ago um but from a staff recommendation yes our recommendation would be that we increase the annual funding and because that was part of my questions on the previous item was how is that determined it's not we don't set a budget and then how many streets can be fit in that budget we look at the streets that need maintenance and then that's where the budget is determined and the only reason we are here where we are is because of the increase in inflation and and the cost of the asphalt and project in general labor whatever it is correct and right and you know as as the mayor mentioned we did the assessment several years ago right and we've seen a continuous increase in in construction costs going forward uh not to mention the cost of petroleum and this is a petroleum based uh product that's utilized for Paving so looking at that and trying to maintain a recommended PCI payment condition index um we probably should have considered raising the amount a couple years back so U the fact that uh we're going into the 25 budget cycle that will be a staff recommendation going forward is that we increase that so that we can maintain um realistically probably in the last couple of years we've had to drop off some roads even before we put the contract together knowing what the cost cost of the previous uh contract award was so the PCI kind of dictates the funding that you should invest going forward and we've probably have been at at that point where our PCI is slightly declining because we've tried to Target that million doll contract amount so we've set the roads that are in the contract unfortunately this year the roads that we selected based on the previous annual contract were in excess of our available f in so that's why there's the recommendation in this companion agenda item to reduce that roadway segment Maron that uh Mary mentioned in order to get us within budget but going forward I think it's it's quite clear that we need to increase the funding okay so then when it comes to the budget it's not as pure as this is what it's going to cost to the best of our ability to cost it out the amount is going for road maintenance there is some sort of we want to try and keep it at a million dollars some set price it it's it's not dissimilar to a rate study right we don't do a rate study every year we do it and we index it so in theory we probably should do an analysis determine what that funding is to maintain the PCI and then we probably should have an index each year that dollar amount increases slightly to stay with that PCI what happens is we do the analysis we set the dollar amount based on the PCI that's the Target and then we leave it until it's time to do another analysis so maybe we do the analysis set the target amount and then do an index each year until we do that analysis again okay sounds like a good idea I'm sorry guys it was just important for me to really wrap my head around go ahead so if I can just just talk a little bit about uh the thought process and the rationale for for where we are right now as as far as as during the course of of the agenda review with the Department directors and agenda reviews with all of you there are uh you know I had the same thoughts when I first saw the agenda item so so so um and and I'm I'm proud of staff for staying within the budget and the reason for that is that there are times that that it is impossible for us to stay within the budget for example when we put a bid out for a roof and it comes in way above uh what it was that we budgeted but we have to replace the roof so we have no choice but to go find the funding from someplace else uh in this case we do have a choice we have a choice to stay within our budget without uh you know uh impacting that neighborhood detrimentally and I also know those roadways cuz that's near my neighborhood and I walk around there um quite a bit so given the choice in this particular instance when we budgeted a certain amount and there's as I said the impact on the neighborhood is negligible as far as rolling it to next year when we we put that at top of our priority list and include other roadways that we have versus the library must have a new roof because it's raining inside and our only choices to go above budget and and find the money so in this case I think that that staff would want wants to stay within the budget and bring you the roadway program when we start with uh with our our budget meetings this year I just wanted to explain up my rationale for for why it was we presented what we presented to you well yeah so this this is um related to when a contractor or vendor submits a bid for a particular project how long is that bid typically good for do I know I'm sure we specify that in the 60 days 60 days okay all right um yeah I asked the question because of the fact that you know it's it's important to know that in order to ensure that we are continuing progress and anyway thank you did I get to you guys I don't remember who started talking um yeah I don't either I mean I think I have all the information I need and I'd like to make a comment then if I may yeah um concerning the budget of course we all want to stay in the budget but there's a big budget okay you want to stay within the big budget um that's interde departmental and and things like that and I'm not suggesting we spend outside of the budget at this point in time everybody pretty much knows that about my conservativism I am concerned that for example we came back and addressed these specific streets it's not just these specific streets these streets then get back in the line but second of all I have no IDE I really do not know what's going to happen with the price of petroleum or let's say a cost of a barrel of of oil and that's in that's in big consternation at this point in time we have a good bid here um and I think I think we may end up seeing some things happening with regards to these to these companies of in the next year or two as it relates to arpa um being overflooded with uh with work and it would seem to me like like we would want to based on the situation analysis that we would that we would want to take advantage of this uh at this point in time and that's why I brought that up uh the concept cep of us yes that's stay in a budget of course we have to stay in the overall budget um I was simply asking that somebody go and take a look at something else then they might want to give because this this is important uh the value of your city is is is also determined by by your streets and and and Roads uh and as a matter of fact I think some insurance companies even take that into consideration not only for your house but also for your cars Etc so I think it's I think it's something that bring brings tremendous value to us um and so that's why I wanted to bring that up and I I haven't heard anything that would change my my position on that so I would not want to see us uh lien up on the streets that we had we had determined we wanted to do and now we say oh well we didn't have to do them uh no no we we have to do them um it's like the roof if you don't do them it just becomes delayed and delayed and delayed and who knows what might happen the next year we may determine not to spend it or we may but we're talking today so I I haven't heard anything that would change my position on that so thank you very much for the opportunity to give my position go ahead um no I mean I'm comfortable with staff's analysis I'm comfortable with staff you know matter of fact I commend you for looking at this from a budget perspective at the same time um making sure you're an analyzing you know what we really need to do this year in importance for the streets so I'm comfortable with the an is I'm comfortable with the recommendation I have to come back around yet because I allowed somebody to speak twice I'm comfortable yeah I'm I'm comfortable with the presentation and um this this how the priorities are are laid out so um that's that's all I've got well I'll be honest I first thing I said is it's not that much money why why don't we just do it um I did say that uh I actually did too but I mean but after I got all the answers I yeah I was comfortable with going along with her recommendation um because I I I I mean there's a couple ways of looking at it it's likely to be cheaper this year than it's going to be next year so you go ahead and do it at the lower rate if you're we're assuming it's going to keep going up um I don't want it to take away from what we do next year and we already know we're going to have to raise it next year and I do like that idea of the what you described earlier um but then there's the other side of this story where I mean we're getting ready to talk about some of our funding um not coming from Penny but where we are with that and there's going to be any number of projects that may get discussed over the next 6 months that maybe weren't even considered um so I don't like making a decision to increase something in a vacuum I like to be able to make choices and and kind of set priorities so I would be open but I see my colleagues are going down a different road so uh let's do a roll call vote commissioner Walker hi commissioner torga hi commissioner gal hi mayor fry I mayor balski I and that motion passes 4 to one all right then we have the uh Fleet replacement plan at 1 million 7 and change hey Scott long time no see buddy the last Fleet replacement good morning again good morning Sue Bartlett Public Works and Scott kerson fleet Fleet Services sorry we um again have come with the entire replacement package for your review and hopefully approval it is um quite extensive with 16 recommended Replacements uh or or purchases actually and um those are not all Replacements three of those are from the solid waste fund and 13 would be from the fleet replacement fund and there's quite a bit of information in this agenda item as you can see it's quite a lot of pages um but the assets were evaluated against the criteria um that has been established um and looked at and 21 assets were deferred from replacement this year um this recommendation includes some assets that were deferred in previous years and in each case um Scott is doing a very thorough assessment in a collaboration with the Department directors both on use and condition of those assets which is also processes outlined in the memo but um the idea is that uh he's looking at what replacement cost would be whether the vehicle is available is it the right purpose as well as the condition of those assets um so that we can get the right purchase at the right time this recommendation also includes three additional assets that align with the budget approval for three positions uh one in parks and two in facilities management for uh pickup trucks there are all three pickups um and the department directors here that are um in the memo for recommendation for replacement are all here if you have any questions about the specific assets um also um I think one example that we have in the memo um to getting the right particular vehicle or the right asset for the um application is the fire um Command Center replacement which was an uh recommended as an expedition and um it was very clear after looking at the um the unit and evaluating the weight and all the things that needed to go in there that um it needed to be changed and in fact was moved up one year um the funding was provided in the budget again and approved by the commission for the change um so that the the chassis is the only thing in this recommendation but for transparency we included that um the command Center which is the rear part that sits on the back end of the truck that will come to the commission for approval um and that is around $100,000 so we did declare that it is not part of the approval for this particular agenda item but um it will come back to you but the chassis is so we can get that ordered Scott is there anything you would like to add nope one one more comment is um we established last year that um the criteria for everyone to look through for fuele efficient vehicles I mean Scott's I is always there um but uh there's a plan that they have to go through a set um criteria that um Natalie helped us put together so that we're meeting our Dream Team goals and looking for electric Replacements and so each director as they choose a vehicle they work with Scott um to say okay can can this be an alternative fuel not just electric but Al any alternative fuel so that is part of the established process now okay Jeff just going right to you thank you mayor um you had mentioned that in your decision-making criteria part of it is purpose can you get into a little bit of detail when you talk about purpose what what what are some of the things that you look at well sometimes um it's usually um expressed from the Department that is going to use the vehicle um as we evolve as a city we our needs change and so we may have had um a crew that put together sandbags and they no longer are use are used in that way and so we have a a a need for a condition assessment that would all come to you in the budget you know beforehand and have that discussion like the facilities the need for those facilities so if a if a need changes we can take an existing vehicle that's already been in the plan and had a contribution and then decide what is the new new purpose or reason for having that vehicle is it needed at all and if so what is the best suited um replacement so that was an ex like the fire chief the fire Command Center was the Expedition and it was not suited so it's uh 350 uh you truck so that it takes the weight and then it has the chassis which separates the command center um so that the equipment is in the back and it's not in the front seat everywhere so that's the you know we'd listen and um and respond to what their purpose is um Scott also does challenge the directors if they say they want a big piece of equipment if a little piece will do it um you know they are the experts in their business but I think it's good it's good uh uh it's not an argument it's just good report and good discussion to have about what's the rest the best um vehicle for that purpose and thank you for at least having that discussion yeah because as I look through the list I just see a lot of F350s F250s and is there a reason why we would choose an f a 350 when a 250 may do or even a 150 would do well I mean I think I'll let Scott speak to this uh as far as the differences but I can tell you that we are looking for the lightest least expensive vehicle that will suit the purpose so when we're Towing something um for instance one of these is um a bucket truck and it you know it has this whole apparatus on the back end I mean it requires that heavy duty you know chassis and bed in order to um and motor and all those things that come with it cooling um in order to actually function as a bucket truck Scott do you want to speak to the differences sure I would I would say the probably the most prevalent reason we go with a upssize truck is some of the equipment the city has to tow around um you cannot tow some of these mini excavators and tractors with F-150 it's over the rating and it will just break it so we are going with a the smallest most affordable truck that will do the job and and that certainly make makes sense um I and I certainly don't want to impede the efficiency of any department or any crew that's trying to get something done in the city but do we buy some of these oversized trucks or bigger trucks just because of the convenience I don't want to have to find out who's got the big truck because I need something mod or something moved it's just hey I could grab any truck in the parking lot that's available because it can do the job you know are are we trying to organize our workflow to take advantage of the trucks that we have so we don't need for any Department to have all 350s just because one might need to pull something um actually yes I do take that into consideration I I actually go and look at each vehicle so I I went and put hands on each of these vehicles with my assistant and we evaluated what they do so a lot of these trucks are tool trucks which means they have beds on the back the tool beds on the back and they're assigned to a crew now that crew can't ride around in a you know a Ford Focus until they need to do something and then hey let's go pick up that F250 there's just not enough uh there's just too many crews that are doing actual work to kind of do that but I mean I understand your your question and uh that's that's what we're looking at because just we seem to be an American society that just loves big and loves trucks and so it's I don't want to hinder anybody's passion you know I'm glad you say that one of the things I've been trying to push is Ford has an extremely affordable very small truck it's called a Ford Maverick it's available standard you don't even pay extra for it as a hybrid you have to pay extra to get the gas engine um I don't know if you've seen the price on those but we can get those for approximately $25,000 that's very affordable but again um is that truck going to meet most of these needs it's not unfortunately and what's the name of that truck that a Ford Maverick Maverick hybrid standard 39 mil to the gallon if it's a good enough name for Tom Cruz it should be good enough me also I would say um we did defer 21 Vehicles so right now uh the way with the condition assessment being you know our major driver of replacement you know I see the future that some of these deferred vehicles that you know at the right time would be able to be replaced with some of these new alternatives um we just don't want to replace it if it's not ready yet so what you see is things that have been differred and um are really at their life end their life cycle end that's and and if you look at the total assets you wouldn't see it um heavy necessarily on that big truck um unless it's an operational unit like water department or Wastewater where though uh they're responding out in the field and they have to take a piece of equipment and some Public Services has a few as well but they do have a quite a variety to choose from but they are assigned based on their crew function thank you thank you mayor commissioner Walker yes ma'am thank you questions um so looking at the budget budget adjustment exhibits um I see an annual budget and I see an increased amount and my question is and I I haven't added these all up but um where in terms of the the recommendation where does this fall out with regards to what was actually in the budget so I'm going to let Scott speak to this as well on the actual numbers but overall um the the whole P bucket you know of money is where we want the flexibility to be able to uh have these adjustments he's going to speak to the increase where we're looking at that last year increase the uh contribution per asset by looking at um current costs of Replacements and we we now will be doing that every year so that um our contribution is closer to what the actual cost will be you know we probably won't get it exact but um that we'll get closer and closer these are much closer than they were last year and um we we want to come to you but we do want the flexibility with a list of this is what we're going to replace but our goal is to get in more in advance and Advance you know just continue to advance that time frame so that we come you with you to you with an accurate picture in our budget of what needs to be replaced next year but we want the flexibility to do the condition assessment and make adjustments based on what is actually in the field now I'll let Scott talk to the actual accounting part pretty much summed it up so is there anything beyond what she said that you specifically want to know um that that's the general well I yeah I understand the the desire to be have some flexibility um I guess what I what I need to understand is uh there's a budget amount and then there are a number of increases that are reflected in the budget adjustment forms and that that I don't know how we make a number we have we make a decision on the number of assets without understanding what's the what's the cost driver with regards to that comparison um it's based on on need so we may have budgeted $49,000 for a a a Ford Expedition for a um a chief vehicle um if it comes in at 525 um you know it's it's kind of hard to predict the future we're getting I'm getting better at it but we're going to have to to go with the uh the cost um to get that vehicle because that vehicle is in need of replacement now we have the money to do that because if you see later on we had budgeted in total um according to the the budget uh 1,1 157,000 U for 2024 but we're actually only spending $756,000 we're way under budget for vehicles what we had planned to spend and how are we doing that because I'm looking at the vehicles and I'm seeing this vehicle here is nowhere's near its useful life so just because it's on a piece of paper that says we're supposed to replace it in 2024 I'm not going to replace it in 2024 when it's got low mileage and is in excellent condition I mean that's wasteful for the environment and everything you use it and by holding on to that truck and and getting it further into its useful life we're getting to the point where the EV vehicles are actually coming down in price so I don't want to go out and buy a truck right now um and replace a perfectly good truck because then we're going to be stuck with that truck for 10 years and our other options for EVS which is what we want to move to are you know in three years which is when that truck is well actually last two could be much more improved if I might too and it gets a little bit confusing because the fleet replacement fund that's why I mentioned their Solid Waste fund and the fleet replacement fund they function the same um but the solid waste vehicles are in the separate um Solid Waste fund within Fleet even within the vehicle replacement every single department has their own account and so that's where Scott's looking okay so they have the contribution for all those vehicles in that particular account and how much is there in that pot and then um we've budgeted those Replacements at this amount that's why there is money available that's why we are showing Savings in the fleet replacement fund and that's also why we're considering well if something's a lower cost well and it's up for replacement and it warrants it okay great if it's a higher cost um what will it take in the next year's contribution for that um Department um to make up those dollars and that's um that's how it's done but it is tracked by vehicle by um replacement and in its own separate little account so that it doesn't go across the Departments if we need to go across a fund like general fund um that's why we come to you the budget adjustments that you see are simply transfers from one account um for instance the fire um vehicle was budgeted in the fire it wasn't over in Fleet replacement so it has to transfer into Fleet replacement and um and if they change purpose um and they want and need a different truck the department comes up with the with the fun in and that gets transferred into the fleet replacement for that account so that's the budget transfers that you see yeah so thank you I yeah I think where you know my disconnect is is that I think as you stated um the total Fleet replacement plan uh 650 and then the majority of it being the solid waste funded um the the combining of those two makes this a little bit confusing yeah we we are combining them to bring them to you at one time to be transparent about the total amount of funding and dollars that we're spending the expense um so that is the real total and the total number of assets um but then in Scott's memo which is attached it breaks them out into the separate Fleet replacement as well as um Solid Waste for transparency for clarity okay so this this really becomes more of a budgetary and more of a balance sheet that's correct and and we are pursuing as requested um looking at how can we change that so that those assets that are budgeted separately in solid waste still remain separate but come into the fleet replacement plan as well as options for um that loan or you know the lease loan I don't know why they call it lease because it's really just a loan um that is done separately so that we can make it one unit and it it's easier to understand that way okay all right thank you very much for the explanation welcome vice mayor um yes thank you um so just to be clear part of what you're working on right now is again matching up contributions with actual costs so at the end of the day I think because I I think a little bit of what commissioner Walker was looking for was that you know here's what we contributed and here's what we're spending but we're saying that's a you're working on that to make that better and I and I do know that that you and Scott are really trying to kind of get some um U I don't want to use the wrong word but a little bit more accountability into the system in terms of what we're charging and contributing um um so the vehicle example you use is the vehicle 157 right the famous vehicle which of course and just from the from my point of view I met with staff about this vehicle I I still have a little bit of an issue that I absolutely agree it's a better um vehicle I think it fits the use better but we could have waited till its turn to do it it wasn't like a disaster now where staff um basically probably convinced me was the the backup vehicle wasn't reliable so um but again I appreciate that you guys are looking at these things what can wait you know if things can wait their time even if they're not perfect you know in life things aren't perfect I got to wait to replace my car even though I want a better car that hauls stuff around better um so um but again I know that both of you are working hard towards that goal and I appreciate it um let's see I I don't know I don't think I really have any questions about it that just again I think it'll be a lot more understandable for the commission when it's just clear you know here's here's the life of it here's what's been contributed here's what the cost is and and we're just a little bit more true to the accounting part of that so but other than that I've reviewed it fully behind the scenes and I I I support it commissioner toga thank you mayor um Scott if I'm going to ask just ask a few questions and they're just real General and I'm asking the questions just to show my confidence in uh in what's been what's been going on um regarding this entire subject matter um the uh having having been on Board of finance and and for about 3 or four years I ended up being the person to look at look at that year department for example um from a budget standpoint and uh and extremely well-run uh and I've and I've spoken with you before um in your efforts to make sure that we run a really really uh a well well-run ship um it that remains correct as as what I just said you're looking that you're looking at all of the costs that go into every vehicle and it is a little bit of a of a science as well but it's also subjective um you're trying to determine what gives us the best value meaning us the user as well as us from a financial side um is that that is correct continues to be correct is that can you verify that it is correct both for vehicle replacement plan and for Fleet as a whole I think if you look last year my budget operating budget increase was 1% thank you thank you I remember that yeah and uh and so um what you and and and those previous to you have have done um is is is really try to figure out the best run organization in an environment that is a within a closed municipality if I may then a uh showy say 10 square miles um hour meters uh the whole all of that I've looked at some of the vehicles that were determined to to be extended I've looked at some of the vehicles that were said I think we just need to change this one now based on based on history based on mechanical history based on operating requirements to keep that vehicle running and so it is you use science and you use facts and sometimes it it is subjective um and and I appreciate and I appreciate the work you do and I know the mechanics down there are fantastic it's almost like a sinking fund isn't it somebody's paying in advance to figure out what they might need to what they might need off into the future and you may not be you you simply are questioning them to ensure that we're getting the best uh value for that and it may be delayed and it may not be delayed but when it's not to be delayed you two you two kind of call it together and and ring the bell so um I'm very comfortable in in the presentation that was made I went over all of the vehicles I surely understand the difference between a 150 250 350 and a 450 and the requirements for that some of that even equates to to warranty uh is that not correct some of that even you said it equates to warranty warranty um not really looking at warranty because the warranty on those trucks is about now is is close to identical a couple years ago the the bigger trucks got an extended government EPA uh emissions warranty but that Gap is since closed um okay that's done so I'm I'm I'm looking at at you know it's condition and uh do the taxpayers need to replace cor truck right now um so in in according to your point I I thank you for those comments I'm glad you're noticing one other thing I do want to point out is that for quite a few of the Departments the ISF contribution in fiscal year 2024 compared to fiscal year 2023 went down down and um I might um also add that we're working in collaboration with the Department directors um in October uh Fleet went live with um almost sing single-handedly here but um went live uh with the new EMA um the asset management U prise asset management or Tyler or um munice I say it right this time it's it's no longer call mun but yes the Tyler mun software right so thank you um so uh this Tool uh you know the the directors haven't had the tool before um the way Scott has had um put put this together is we've got all the cost in an AUD auditable auditable Trail so that you can go back back and find out where the money came from and then how it changed if it changed and we needed more contribution you know for replacement so the accounting is is there but having this tool um they will be happy to have this tool there are more steps that we will be taking on the efficiency and use um that will be data driven as we are able to get data out of the system put it in and get it out like you mentioned the hour meters um we'll be looking at outof yard hours and um all of those processes over this next year so we look forward to being able to share more savings with you um or at least efficiencies in how we work every day uh I appreciate that and and relating to questions um basically basically you kept a great hand system there uh you kept a a you didn't miss a you didn't miss a penny coming in into into there and out of there as far as I recall um and so this may just be an automated system that will help you hopefully make it a little e easier for you but but you pretty much have had your hands on that information along the way thank you anybody from the public wish to come speak to this item seeing or hearing none can I have a motion to approve so move second commissioner gaw and commissioner torga I think we've all made final comments at this point do you have anything else you want to say no ma'am good everybody okay okay thanks Scott for all the hard work we know you've worked really hard on this all in favor signifi by saying I any opposed motion passes unanimously and soon all right and then we have the proposed agenda for February 20th um all looks good to me anybody have anything else they anything they want to change May will be add we will be adding um a Communications Proclamation um I know that these aren't required but just to so you guys have an idea and then a couple of um consent items Tarpon Springs um Fire Department deden fire department use of their training facilities and Flanigan's Irish P um St Patrick's Day celebration revocable license agreement and so those are both consent as well but just so you have an idea that we'll be just a couple more items on there okay can I have a motion to approve uh before you approve it just keeping in mind we're trying to balance meetings right yes yeah okay just oh calling the question um anyway okay I have no idea can I have a motion so moved second commissioner Walker and vice mayor fry all in favor signify by saying I I any opposed motion passes unanimously all right we're going to take a break before we get into the discussion about strategic [Music] planning [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] a [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] a [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] yeah [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] a [Music] [Music] meeting back to order and now we're going to talk about uh our strategic planning project update and background I will turn it over to Nicole and Angela welcome good morning mayor vice mayor Commissioners uh Nicole Delino strategy and sustain ability manager I'm here today with Angela Chris of the USF Florida Institute of government um to give you an update on phase one of the strategic planning project so um just as an overview I'm sure you've seen this before um our project team consists of Partners from USF um Angela Chris and the following staff listed there and then from SPC St P College Collaborative Labs teams um Tina Fisher um their documenter who has been providing us with their realtime records and uh PJ who's been a gem on the technology if you've attended the strategic planning meetings you you've seen the technology in use it's been very uh helpful um and just a little this is kind of an overview of where we started um the project we officially um kicked off um with department head meeting um in September um then we have been providing uh USF and their team with lots of documents um every document that we can uncover um as far as planning efforts um reports that sort of thing that they've kind of done an environmental scan um they held several stakeholder interviews one-on-one interviews um of which you were all a part of in addition to um residents and and business owners um we developed um from the with with our communication team project page um that's on our website um it has the last I checked um actually after the first Forum we've had several thousand hits on that page um so we're really driving um the public to go to that page to find information find all the records um associated with this project um we then went into our first Community Forum which was on November 1st um and and Angela will review some of the details of all these um we had an employee focus group uh it together combined with an employee feedback survey um and then we just recently concluded our second um Community Focus or Community Forum um in January so today um is to kind of just give you a brief update um as to where we are and the information gathered and I will turn it over to Angela oh go back it's okay okay well um good morning Angela Christ uh USF Florida Institute of government it's a pleasure to be here and I wanted uh Nicole just to stay on this slide for a second if you have attended uh any of the workshops that we have been hosting here um you know one of the things that I like to do is always kind of start out with a quote and end with the quote and you've probably seen this quote but I really think it is uh very appropriate for the process that we're going through so the process that we've been using um to develop and collect data and now move into phase 2 is really a participatory model which means that we're really trying to gather as much information and data from as many sources as we can and so um being the arts and culture uh community that you are just thought that this was very appropriate and really it does represent what we're trying to do which is a series of small things brought together and say so uh keep that in mind as we talk through this brief presentation so I just wanted to share with you um what we have done uh and it's going to be very brief and the reason for that is at the end of this you guys have homework uh we will be doing our first leadership Forum uh February 13th and it will be here at City Hall and that's really where your work and your time come in so as part of that we will be going through some of what I'm covering today a lot more a lot more in depth okay uh but I just want to go through with you today what we've done for the record uh and just talk briefly so one of the important things um with any strategic plan is making sure that you have a robust Communications plan as well as open and transparent communication and so kudos to the city staff uh they have done an excellent job of um I'm hopefully you have seen uh this um I keep calling it engaged deden but I know that's not what it is um but if you uh are able to go to the website um all the information you can see all of the real-time records everything um that you could want is there including the timeline and um that's critical it is also I think they've done an excellent job of making sure that that information is updated as soon as it is received um in addition to that uh your city manager um created a video which I know you all have seen and we we have started each of our forums with that video uh really trying to set the tone for the process so again this Communications uh Sue and her team and everyone has done a great job uh I would say social media um all really touches across all modalities and so we'll continue to do that throughout the rest of the process uh one of the other things that we did is when we held our project kickoff meeting in September with uh your city leadership uh department managers and city manager uh we talked about who were those individuals and what the criteria was we were looking for to interview and again this was just to begin the conversation around uh really what we would consider a SWAT analysis um but with a few tweaks just trying to kind of understand uh where the thoughts were uh we had approximately uh 25 names that were submitted to us and we ended up interviewing 18 people and uh when we meet on February 13th uh we will be going through some of the specific highlights of those stakeholder interviews uh we're not going to get into that today okay I wanted to share this with you and again if you attended uh one of our workshops I had this slide up and the reason for this is as we began going through a lot of the data um and a lot of the data that we had received from the city there were some things that began to kind of stick out what we would call kind of these Focus areas or themes and so you can see those highlighted up there traffic affordable housing planning uh this kind of small town atmosphere the reputation and image of the city and affordable housing those were the things that as you went through all of the reports and all of the data there seem to be excuse me this focus on those areas if you look to the right and I always ask this question uh and I ask this in the employee focus group what you see in that dark blue box those are plans there's a lot of plans in this city which is good you plan but there's something missing how they all come together there's no strategy on bringing them together so we're going to talk about a little bit about that on February 13th but as you can see I really feel like a a picture is worth a thousand words and so when you look up there you guys have spent a significant amount of time I mean comprehensive planning uh multimodal uh master plan uh C plan I mean there's there's a lot CIP um and so kudos for doing that but let's bring it together now um with a vision and a strategy had a great uh you can see the pictures had a great employ employee Forum um on November 13th um we were able to break them out in groups I will say you have very dedicated staff they were very open and honest um it really I thought was a very productive um productive couple of hours um in addition to that we um did an employee survey um and again this was more feedback um we did I feel like we did get a pretty good response after some pushout um one of the things uh that we did was when we did the employee Forum we really tried to pull the data that we had received from uh the stakeholder interviews from our initial observations um and really tried to pull that through in the Forum as we completed with them um some collaborative breakouts and when we meet on the 13th there is a full report again uh that you have when we meet on the 13th we're going to dive into some of those areas so that you can see uh what your employees are saying uh we also had a very lengthy discussion around uh core values and guiding principles and I think that's really important again remember I said at the beginning uh we're really looking to do um a methodology or we have been doing a methodology that is very participatory and so when we think of core values and guiding principles we consider those things to be those non-negotiable items that means how do you as elected officials how does the community how does the staff how do you want to behave how do you want to interact with one another and so that's one of the things that we'll be getting to on February 13th as well uh we also I also shared with them um a video um and happy to provide it to you as well um deoe hasn't come out with the one yet for 2024 um but it was very interesting to look at government Trends um for 2023 and where you are as a City versus kind of where I think uh the country is um and and a lot of the same things that you're seeing across the country um are happening here as well in D Eden with some of the challenges so the whole point of that was You're Not Alone um but how do you be unique in addressing those okay all right so uh we had Community Forum one uh it was it was in here and I wanted to share with you um just very briefly uh we did several different activities with community members and the first was really around visioning and so when we think of the word Vision it's an as aspirational description of what you want to achieve in the future right it's something you're pining for something that's higher and so the words that kind of came to after several hours and in different um activities with them that we heard over and over was safe and secure that's something that they felt should be part of of the vision that Den Eden is and continues to be inclusive and welcoming uh one of the things we heard over and over is um really kind of protecting or safeguarding the history or Heritage while recognizing the need for growth and I think that second part is really important as we we get into the next steps uh we also heard a lot from the community that they felt that um there was this not opportunity but that that there was this really deden has become this transitional community so whether you were born here or you're retiring here that there's really something for everybody kind of along the life cycle um which was very interesting um which you don't tend to see in a lot of communities and then um lastly we heard obviously um that one thing that was really critical to them was this environmentally conscious really recognizing that and continuing to be that way oh wrong wrong one okay so Mission so remember the vision is kind of that end state where you want to be our mission is explains the reason why you exist as a city and so again what we heard was is quality of life being fiscally sound and responsible obviously providing the services that you continue to provide and then last but not least which really um and we'll go into some of that data on February 13th which really popped a lot to the top um which I think is unique for dun Eden and will be part of your strategic plan going forward is this relationship between the residents and government and making sure that that the reason you exist is to kind of hear the voices of your residents that definitely really stood out um which is something unique to den Eden so something you have done you continue to do okay so after all of this we tried to pull together some what we would considered to be emerging Focus areas and you can see the quote on the right and I don't know if you know who Michael Porter is but he's a brilliant Harvard professor and he if you haven't read any of his books you should and the one quote that I feel that is the most appropriate for the process that we're going through is this is that the essence of strategy is choosing what not to do and when we meet on February 13th that is probably going to be one of your hardest challenges as leaders and as policy and decision makers because there's a big difference between a need and a want okay and so when you look at these Focus areas again these are not set in stone this is just again what we see bubbling to the top so city services and amenities environmental sustainability a lot of things can fall under that Communications and technology and we'll talk more in depthly about those uh multimodal Transit again this is bikes traffic parking anything related to to those golf carts heard a lot of about golf carts uh good governance this is really kind of your Workforce right this is these are your staff your employees your internal operations um obviously and then infrastructure planning and growth and so we put all of that together together because we really felt at this point in the process there was this huge overlap between infrastructure planning and growth and we included attainable housing in that that's not to say that these can't be changed as we meet with all of you but again this is our starting point so in community Forum 2 we obviously provided a recap um and I know this is probably a little hard to see um but one of the things that we did with community members was we took uh those kind of five key areas and we asked them to vote and as you can see the number one thing for a vision that should you're going to get to see all you're going to get to see all the responses but this is the summary the number one thing that came out at the very top was environmentally conscious and resiliency and in parenthe es they made sure community members that we put forward thinking and Leadership and so we'll talk more in depthly about that but there was a strong sense that that needed to be part of your vision and um coming in second was and not too far behind for percentage points was safe and secure and then lastly uh inclusive and welcoming and so um again remember your vision kind of that future state so uh that's what we heard in terms of mission um so this one was really interesting right this is why you exist and so and your purpose and so you can see as you begin to reimagine your mission statement the two things that community members felt were really the most Paramount were services and infrastructure and being fiscally sound and responsible that's not to say that quality of life and the voices of residents aren't more important or as important it's just to say that the community really saw um fiscally sound and services as being critical to the purpose of your existence yes this can be confusing so um what we did um at the end of community Forum 2 is we took those six key kind of focus areas or themes and we conducted breakout sessions around desired outcomes and so um underneath kind of each of these Focus areas there was a really lengthy discussion around kind of what they saw as desired outcomes the second part of the breakout we conducted an exercise on uh on a matrix as you can see and what we really wanted to do was ask the community when you think about the impact of that outcome and you think about the doability where would you put that on that Matrix and so when you look at that Matrix the things that came up in the uh top right quadrant is really the stuff that you should be focusing on or that is recommended from the community to be focusing on now granted the community does not have all of the data and all of the facts as it relates to things rules regulations policies that can impact uh some of their desired outcomes and we will be going into the in in depth on this um on the 13th so I know this is a lot of information and this is a brief presentation but I just wanted to provide to you um some of the kind of the top things that were netted out and so if you look at um uh services and amend entities you can see this maintaining uh the current infrastructure of water and sewer was by far the number one thing uh followed by um safeguarding and maintaining parks and facilities and then you can see there's a lot of one-offs um for um for communications and Technology um this communication plan uh for the city with signage and websites and personal interaction um we heard a lot about that um followed by free free Wi-Fi throughout the city again this is one of those things where community members may not you know know all of the details um again improved website um and then uh one of the other ones that popped up at the top was ensuring that the the neighborhoods affected by decisions are involved in the process and then environmental sustainability at the very top was increas increasing the tree camp canopy um Etc and then obviously Coastal keeping the coastal and the waterways clean um and good uh storm infrastructure trash management and so those were kind of what Rose to the top however when they did The prioritization Matrix there were only five of all of these there were only five that were in that top right quadrant under city services and amenities we had increased the tree canopy and maintain and increase green space under environmental sustainability was communicate um making sure that affected neighborhoods are involved as well as government government automated permitting and then under Communications and Technology was free Wi-Fi so we're going to go through this all in depth but my whole point of sharing this with you and I'm going to do it again in the next slide is that you can see um I want to say we had over 20 like 27 um amongst just these three areas but when you looked at the doability and the impact there was really kind of five key things that Rose to the top and so as we move into the next phases we will follow a similar process and here are the last three so you can see multimodal uh oh thank you good governance and infrastructure planning and growth and so um there was a tie for multimodal everything was important everything got a one uh good governance um internships for uh local students um again this was kind of that career job path um pursuing grant opportunities uh was one and then the top one for infrastructure was zoning changes and incent incentives to encourage shared housing um whether that be for elderly disabled Etc and so the things that we saw rise to the top in that top right quadrant uh were a car-free corridor on Main Street and improve bicycle corridors uh reduce speed limits on the pelis trail and golf cart accessibility and then good governance uh we saw High School internships and um I thought this one was really interesting employee Citizens Academy style training so as you can see there's a lot of data here is the most important thing for you and remember I said at the beginning homework so here's what I need all of you to do before February 13th I need you to review all of the reports from the previous deliverables there are real-time records on the website for all of the things that we've done you need to review those you need to come prepared having read all of those prior to the leadership Forum please be ready to ask specific questions related or regarding any of the data that we've collected and then prepare your thoughts for the Strategic vision and Mission using the data we've collected let me repeat that the last one is critically important prepare your thoughts for the Strategic vision and mission for the sitting using the data collected okay we will be meeting on February 13th in here the agenda will be posted later today it is complete so um I'm happy to answer any questions let me just say that this is where your work begins it will not be a success without you doing all of the lovely things that are on this slide so me ending with the quote I think this is very appropriate so Pete Johnson um anybody remember Boogie wogie music okay he actually was one of the original Boogie wogie he's a jazz pianist his story is incredible look him up this is his definition of strategy and this is so appropriate a style of thinking a conscious and deliberate process an intensive implementation system the science of ensuring future success and that is what we are trying to do with this process we have the data we're ready to go now you do your homework come prepared on February 13th and let's get some good goals some good objectives and begin the process for your community thank you thank you very much um questions comments question sure um just want to clarify so um on the recap Community Forum 2 with the numbers the four the two the one explain exactly how those were arrived at yes so we used um St Petersburg col College um we use their technology process it's an online voting voted yeah it was Voting so each group had an opportunity to pick their top three and so for example out of all of those only one uh group picked that so if you look at uh good governance you'll see the first bullet there's a two that means two of the six groups pick that oh okay that's why I thought it was kind of weird not more so there were six community group set up in here and so each group was able to select their top three within each of those areas so the numbers reflect how many groups pick that so if there's only a one there that means only one group so if you go back to community Forum 2 um if you look at the first slide you'll see the very first bullet under services and amenities four of the groups pick that M okay okay I got that now I know like the the last three the multimodal good governance infrastructure planning so the first three were done with all the groups correct and the last ones you split up into two groups each to handle those I mean you feel like that in any way took away from results no because when we reported out people were able to make comments and add additional things and there seemed to be consensus in the room okay and they were all able to vote on what they were all able to vote on all of them that is correct and then when you talk about the top quadrant the you know results like and you named them is that on a slide or is that just in is in the real time record okay yeah that's in the realtime record okay it's very hard to explain I was just trying to give you the brief highlight but you really need to go through the real time record to understand where they were there are actual photos in the realtime record that shows where the community members put the dots um on The Matrix and I guess my biggest question is how do we balance the workshop results with things like our Citywide survey you know that's statistically significant and you know we get a lot of information how do we balance those so we're not I mean obviously you know was well attended but again it's a it's a piece of the community you know sometimes the pieces are people that have significant passionate about a certain issue and the and the survey is kind of more you know broad-based so how do we how do we work those together yep that's a great question so the thing that we are starting with on February 13th is your vision you you there is no way that you can do a strategic plan and create goals if you're not sharing the same vision and so I say that because that's why your homework is so important you guys are decision makers and policymakers we are going to provide you with all the data we are going to facilitate a discussion on February 13th but at the end of our 4 hours together three hours together we have to have a vision because we can't move forward in the process without that and so to answer your question you're going to have to take those into consideration as a policy maker and a decision maker but at the end of the day we're providing you with that data and you as elected officials are going to be making that recommendation for the vision and so we have to have the vision we have to have the mission and we at least have to know those core values once we have those we can move into the goals but again you doing your homework taking all those things into consideration and coming prepared like I said my last bullet with your thoughts based on the data for what that vision and Mission should be so it's your role to do that and to bring it together yeah so our homework really is not just the real-time record of this experience it's anything else that we can draw from including the surveys that are going to give us big picture thinking for that day and I just want to add to that um at the I think the the one of the early slides um obviously all the citizen the business survey results were provided um to USF to review kind of in their data analysis and what you saw in the very beginning of those um items that they kind of saw surfacing between the interviews and then the review of all those plans are a lot of those things that we see in the citizen survey planning for the future affordable housing parking traffic those are all the high ticket items on so those have kind of carried through and through the process what we kind of saw in the community Forum to is identifying more specific items but then also prioritizing those so we saw I think sorry we're kind of skipping back and forth here but we saw you know was it which one you know here at the um I'm on the wrong page um here at the end obviously you know in multimodal the golf carts um in infrastructure the you know the zoning and that sort of thing so I think we're you're seeing kind of a lot of those Trends from the citizen survey still come through but they're showing up in different ways where we don't ask those really specific questions in the survey um so we're seeing kind of we're drilling down a little bit more from there yeah and I would I would just make one more comment and say I think one of the biggest challenges for you is um some of the data that we've collected is very operational in nature it is not strategic and so that's going to be your biggest challenge next week on February 13th um and our challenge as facilitators to keep you at that high level um because it's it's so easy to say well we need you know um improved bicycle corridors well that's that's not a goal that's an objective and so um that's why I'm trying to keep you up here and not down here and so once we get through like the first hour next week um it's going to be rough but it'll be good once we get through it we'll be in good shape for for the rest of the time but so I hope that answered your question yep no thank you that all I had right now questions joh thank you I'm glad you brought up the point that we're not only looking initially you had said we're just looking at this data we're actually looking at other data or we're looking at whatever data we we deem necessary we all know what the computers computer experts said way back in The Way Way Back in the Day stuff in stuff out right so the data is very very important that we look at it do you feel like we have a good crosssection from this analysis of the of our community yes I I do and I want to be careful when we say look at all all data we need to make sure that the data that you're looking at is credible and not saying that it's not but it can't just be anecdotal so it to make sure that whether it's the resident survey whether it's these realtime records um whether you've had other kind of community forums I know that Sue uh they did when they were doing The Branding there is some good data in there um on um kind of The Branding I guess for the city of den Eden so again um I think looking at all data and being prepared just making sure that the source of the data is is is valuable incredible so I'll ask the question again then so is this data that we have then from this particular function is this representative then of of our entire community in your opinion I I I I believe so yes because we have been provided the reports and we have done an environmental scan of all of those reports um so yes I would say yes now again you know we're not perfect we probably miss something so if there's something that's missing then yes bring it to the table uh when we meet next week but I feel confident in um the research that we've done and with our professors that yes we we we have a good base of information to move forward and you talked about the the the full cross spectrum of of the information that you received we were also interviewed yes do we see that yes you're you're not going to you'll see the uh Collective responses as I mentioned at the beginning we will go through each of these deliverables in depth next week and there is a um I is there a report on the stakeholder interviews I don't think I have it yeah so we I did not put that on there um but yes we will go through um indepthly uh each of the things I mentioned we will go through those with you on the 16th 13th on the 13th okay yes okay and um I I can't read my note here so that's okay um I wrote down how to balance other information and I'm not sure why I wrote that down um and then I got digress to something else did you make that comment or is that my well no I think um one of your colleagues made that comment and I I think the the the challenge is sometimes you can have too much information and so again it's being prepared and at at some point remember my quote my quote I think uh as we were kind of going through the focus areas was um for Michael Porter was around the process of strategic planning is choosing what not to do and so that is going to be critically important next week you're not going to be everything to everybody it's what's important for the city and moving the community forward and so at some point you will have reviewed all the data and again you're sitting where you are because you're decision makers and policy makers and you're going to have to make a decision that's what it boils down to so no matter how much data you have as long as you're using that to make informed educational decisions that's the credibility of this proc process I think that I think that's why it's important that we allow other data to enter enter into this um for example should should someone up here have specific knowledge about something and they see how it's how it's presented they they have to sort of decide not to you said it yourself not to do not to go there not to do that and they need to keep themselves it would seem I'm asking want to keep themselves focused on what and how they feel about that yes and that will come probably in community Forum I mean excuse me in leadership Forum 2 which is scheduled for March 26th uh next week is really focused as I said on the vision mission core values we will begin to discuss the focus areas um next week however what you're talking about really comes in um leadership Forum too on March 26th and is that specifically where we get into things like like the strategy and and the tactics correct okay thank you commissioner Walker anything um no I think uh commissioner torer covered my questions um because I guess you know there the problem with the process is is there is a lot of information so basically what you're asking uh for us for the lead ERS ship form first one is basically distill that to develop an informed perspective okay thank you did you go I did I'm good I don't know what uh where Jeff went I'm assuming he went to use the restroom I don't have any questions but I I hear the homework that you've given okay he's working over the weekend for quiet time yes yes are you looking for us to I guess I will ask you are you looking for us to come with examples of vision statements or just words nope I think just words words okay no we don't want examples because it needs to be an organic discussion amongst you as Leaders gotcha um but words I can do and big thoughts pardon me and big thoughts yes big thoughts 100,000 foot because you know we did try to do this once before I know we gave up well I gave up went on to our epic goals but it's okay it's our job to get you there and that's what I said it's going to be it's going to it's going to hurt a little the first hour or so but we will get through it together thank you mayor so the the discussion that I had with Angela and Nicole uh prior to this particular meeting was that during the and i' and I've conveyed this to the department directors as well that that you know Department directors are by Nature obviously operation I mean they're operations that's what they do the day-to-day running of theity City I know that Angela is looking for you know the input from the five of you as far as the vision and the mission and and you know those core values and you know that general direction and not from the Department directors so not that they don't won't speak because I'm sure they will they're not exactly you know shrinking violence but um oh God no yeah we're you know we're looking at that input from the five of you and I think that really the first time around that's kind of where we failed because we had too many cooks and um and so you know this is your strategic plan at the end of the day the five of you and you're giving us the direction uh of the city so uh we're going to be supportive of all of you uh but but waiting to listen to you in particular Jeff did you have any questions before we okay well thank you guys thank you we look forward to a very productive session next week all right we'll take another quick break and then we'll go on to budget see you didn't have to leave [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] oh [Music] [Music] w [Music] [Music] yeah [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] oh [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] yeah [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] meeting back to order Jennifer did you have an opening I do mayor if I could just kind of set the framework of of this portion of your Workshop this morning uh the city commission is part of our budget process I believe asked to see uh the general fund every quarter just to to get an overview of exactly you know where the city's what the city's position is um at least once a quarter so this is your first report uh of the general fund um we're not in setting the framework this morning we're not asking for any sort of consensus direction from the city commission as far as as these figures or even looking toward um a discussion in terms of that staff would be involved in in terms of a direction regarding the general fund uh and exactly where we are in the general fund just simply because we're not ready to do that at this point we're at the very beginning of our budget process uh these numbers will change uh they you know I I don't see any huge changes but they will change and so we're not quite ready at this point to make any recommendations predicated upon these numbers um of course you know I can't direct the city commission uh discussion or the comments or anything like that but I just wanted to set the stage for What city's prepared to do uh today so thank you mayor thank you Jennifer hello leson Ashley morning mayor uh Les Tyler Finance director I'm here with Ashley kmon the budget manager and uh kind of go over the agenda briefly for today as as the Senor manager mentioned we're going to go over uh our general fund LW range plan we've revised it with our our 23 actual uh numbers that we'll talk about more in a minute we're going to walk through that we also going to go through the revenues for 2023 and the focus today will be on 2023 letting the commission know where we ended up you know for that fiscal year uh we'll look at the revenues and go over some of the variances uh in the revenues positive variances too that I might add and then uh on the expenditures we we'll be going over some of the actual expenditures uh and how they compareed to our projections and as Jennifer mentioned want to mention again that this is these are preliminary actuals we're still working on year end adjustments and we have our auditing firm coming out uh later on this month to begin the audit and they may have adjustments as well so some of these numbers may change but as Jennifer mentioned I don't see them being material changes but there will be some adjustments uh as we move forward to complete the audit and moving to the law range plan um like to start basically with uh if you look in in the in the middle of the page there there's a column titled preliminary actual 2023 and it's got a yellow highlight at the top of that column and uh this is uh this is basically when we did our adopted budget we included estimates for 2023 and when we do the estimates when we're doing the budget we're basing that off uh 6 months of actual when we start the budget then then it's nine months of actuals as we complete the budget and we we have our third Workshop in August uh and we do we do estimates based on that and 2023 is important because 2023 uh the fund balance whatever it is at the end of 23 rolls into 24 uh 24 budget and impacts 24's budget in future years as well so here's the uh 24 General fun alarm range plan and I mentioned the preliminary actuals is the yellow highlight column in the middle uh the assumptions in the arm range plan from 2024 to 2029 have not not changed uh we'll talk through this a little more but uh the the update here is really 23 actuals is what the update is in this long range plan and and and also how that carries over the future years uh and the and the uh out the 29 uh the projected 23 carry forward amount is presented in a separate line item uh we included this as an update because the numbers can be reasonably estimated we've gone through and determined what we think the general fund carryover will be and and that is if you look towards the bottom the third lineup there's a there's a a tan shade there uh under the 20 23 column and that is the carryover amount and so we're currently estimating that $2.23 six million will be incumbrance and project carryovers at the end of 23 that will roll into into the 24 budget and as you can see in the in the fisal year preliminary actuals uh highlighted at the top of the page uh if we look at the actual revenues that we're projecting we have 40.4 million for revenues in for actionable for 2023 and then we can see the estimated the estimated column is to the left of the actual column and the and the estimate was 37.4 million so we have about 3 million three million more uh dollars in Revenue than estimate uh at at a high level in a few slides we'll go over a little more on the revenues and we've got some variances that we're explaining uh in a few slides back um and also I want to mention exhibit a in the staff report has some uh variances for the revenues that we'll be discussing here in a few slides and also the expenditures as well the 2023 actual expenses if you go down to the second subtotal uh were $35.1 million uh and the estimate was 38 million and that's about 2.9 Million less expenses than estimated for 2023 and and and again in a few slides we'll discuss more of the detail tells for the expenses and but one of the one of the largest expenses that we'll go over one in a few minutes is that carryover that that carryover amount of 2.2 million is the majority of that uh that variance and in the fisc year preliminary actual column you can see towards the bottom of the page uh we have we have a projected carryover in the general fund in 2023 of 15.4 million and that is the if you look at the yellow highlighted rows towards the bottom it's the it's the third highlighted row from the bottom and it says 15.42% and then our fund balance is 13.1 million uh after taking into consideration the carryover and that 13 .1 million is just right at $3 million more than our estimated U available fund balance in the estimated column um which is $1,180 th000 the uh so we're and that 13.1 million uh is a 36% Reserve uh you know we we our estimate when we budgeted was a 28.5% reserve so it has gone up and and that's that's $3 million difference um the 24 adopted budget estimate uh is the 28.5% uh the column to the left as mentioned we have we we've made no changes to the 24 through 29 columns we want to focus on 23 I have a few comments on 24 that I'll go over in a minute but we did not make any changes here um the uh and I want to point out the budget shortfall we we always uh provide this to the commission and I wanted that that this carryover does have an impact on the budget shortfall our budget shortfall in our adopted budget had an annual shortfall estimate of 1.1 million and now with this with these revised numbers our budget shortfall is $500,000 annually so it it more than dropped in half uh with that carryover from 2023 increasing are there any are there any questions on the alarm range plan before we kind of walk walk through some of the Reven and expenses why don't you go ahead and walk us through okay okay okay moving to the next slide uh these are the same captions that we have in our in our budget long range plan and um what I'd like to do is go over and what we're focusing on really is we we show the the the budget and the estimate uh by Revenue category and then we have the actuals that we're discussing today and then we have a variance between the estimated and the actuals on the far right and uh I'd like to start with other taxes uh uh the variance there the the majority of that variance was our electrical utility tax which is part you know that we funding we receed through the Duke Energy bills uh we had uh we had estimated we had budgeted that uh at a at a pretty conservative number we we increased our estimate about $225,000 during the budget process but even even with that increase in the estimate uh it ended up being $266,000 more than our estimate our estimate uh for 2023 was 3.75 million and the actual revenues were just over $4 million and uh the increase in 23 was due to D the Duke Energy rates increases we discussed that some during the budget process uh our city paid our city has you know paid a lot during a lot more during 2023 as a result of those increases that were over 10% but but the but the revenue side uh of that is is being being reflected here and it was about a 10 or 12% increase uh that they put into effect in January and February of 23 but so about 266,000 is that that variance also the simplified communication Services tax actual revenues were about 134,000 more than the estimated revenue and that's another state allocated Revenue Source uh we estimated 1.3 million for that funding source and the actual Revenue was 1.4 34 million um and the increase in 23 due was due to the the increase in the state allocation of course and uh and the next category is the license and permits um the largest item here is the this we also have an electric franchise fee uh with Duke Duke Energy and uh we' adjusted that up in the estimate as well but the actual revenues were $3,200 more than our estimate uh we estimated 3,50 th000 and the actual revenues worth 3,4 3,143 th000 so that and that was again due to the the increase of over 10% that took place last uh last January and and also in license and fees uh natural Gras franchise fee revenues uh were more than estimate uh they were about $38,000 this uh more uh been the estimate and that was basically and looking at that the natural gas franchise fee Revenue has uh has increased in in 23 and and actually it increased in 22 and that's been turning a little higher so uh we'll be increasing that Budget moving forward and that's the main reason for that variance um on intergovernmental variance the intergovermental revenue uh the primary one here is the state revenue sharing program and that is uh that's a funding source we received from the state that is based on about 81% uh sales tax based and then 19% uh fuel tax 1% fuel tax uh and that actual Revenue came in 339,000 more than our estimate in 2023 um this estimate our estimate in 2023 was 1. 1450 th000 1.4 million uh and the actual Revenue was uh 1 uh 7 million actually 1, 79,000 this increase uh was due this Revenue Source uh has a true up every August uh towards end of August they pay monthly and then end of August they have a true up and the true up fluctuates a lot for this Revenue Source the true up amount in 23 that we received in August of 23 was $270,000 and that true up two years ago was about 23,000 and it moves around but it was large it was a very large true up this year which uh which was part of that uh that variance and the next uh item in this category is we had a we had applied for a grant the fire department applied for a grant for the U sbca air pack Replacements that we purchased uh last year and uh the purchase was uh done in December of 22 and the cost was about $370,000 uh but but there was a FEMA reimbursable grant for $230,000 uh associated with that purchase and that's what and and this particular Grant came in uh in uh uh September 2023 we did not budget we did not budget this line item uh uh we often don't budget FEMA FEA grants because you never when the funding is actually going to take place uh we didn't know if it would come in in 23 or 24 but it did come in in 23 so it's being recognized in 23 so that's about 230,000 of that variance and the next item is charges for services uh the parks and rec uh has program revenues for its different programs at the community center Health Center and and all the different locations um that revenue for all of the program revenues uh was about $300,000 more than our estimate we estimated in 23 the program revenues in total to be 1,737 th000 and the actual revenues were uh just over $2 million um par the Parks and Recreation revenues they dropped dramatically during covid as you all know and they've rebounded quicker than than expected due to renew programming of staff uh the actual program revenues increase year-over-year uh if you look at the actual revenues in 23 versus 22 they increase $314,000 year-over-year uh from 23 to 22 in talking to uh parks and staff we we staff expects the revenue growth to begin to level off moving forward but we've had some really nice growth in there the last last couple years and uh also in that category is the actual revenues for the fire department uh other charges line item include and that includes EMS services for special events that we have at the city uh and also uh Blue Jays and that sort of thing uh assisting there they were 74,000 more than the estimate in 2023 the estimate was 40,000 and the actual revenues were 114,000 and the reason for this was uh and we need we need to adjust this in next in our moving forward the hourly rate for EMS Services uh charged at the it charged at the employees rate it used to be charged at the employees rate and then in mid 2022 uh we the agreement changed and we are now charging a flat $51 per hour so it's a it's it's a simpler method and it's also uh we're also uh bilding more for the time now because it's a flat hourly rate which is more than some of the the actual hours worked so uh which increased the charges for services in 23 in future years so we'll be adjusting that uh moving forward uh you to a more realistic number on the miscellaneous Revenue variance uh which is a pretty large variance U the library received a large donation in uh in fiscal year 23 for $ 55,8 and uh this this will this will be uh put as a restricted fund balance for Library requests you know for the library for different various projects moving forward and it's not it is not part of the general fund available fund balance but it's it'll be reserved for uh for the libraries bequest category uh and that donation was not budgeted in 23 we were aware of that coming in during the year and uh we knew we knew it was going through the reserves but that but that is part of that that variance in that in that line item and also interest income uh we talked a lot about interest income in investment earnings some through the budget last year we uh our our rate of returns have increased dramatically with the with the short-term rates that went up starting about a little over a year ago we estimated 500,000 for interest Revenue in 2023 and the actual Revenue was 638,000 so we had about 138,000 more than than than the estimate uh and again that's du to to the short-term rates increasing uh another category is other miscellaneous revenues um the actual revenues were 65,000 more than our estimate and that was for a sponsorship donation from Duke Energy for the trail the the trail park benches for $65 ,000 was uh most of that line item and also other contributions and donations another line item um actual revenues were 95,000 more than our budget and and estimate due mainly to duck energy also had donations toing $60,000 in fiscal year 23 for the gladus douas preserved to Life program so that that covers the revenues uh at a high level and then we'll uh go over the expenses now and uh kind of some of the highlights there would' like to start with uh again this is the same format we have our budget uh budgeted expenditures our estimates and then we have our preliminary actuals and then our variance and it also shows us by expenditure category and we we've uh Ashley and I have done an analysis of the general fund expenditures in 23 and to sort of identify that that variance of 2.87 6 million and uh and the largest reason I mentioned before is that carryover our estimated carryover is 2,236 th000 and again that's for purchase ERS that are open as of as of 9:30 uh 23 and we have and we have some detail on the carryover that we'll go over in a few slides uh also uh City attorney uh professional fees were actual cost in 23 were $245,000 under budget attorney fees have been have been under budget for both 23 and 22 staff uh staff did reduce uh this budget line item during the 24 budget by $100,000 knowing that it has been trending under uh but that's a that was a that was the biggest uh Department that had a savings during 23 and also Personnel costs we talked about uh potential labor savings during the budget process and the labor Savings in the general fund due to vacancies uh was about $412,000 so we had uh about $412,000 in labor savings uh 4 23 so so overall looking at the general fund uh I do want to mention that the you know when I look at each department the Departments did a really good job of staying in budget uh almost every Department was under budget and if the ones that weren't were slightly over and I just want to say that point out that I thought in general they did a very good job because we are we were in are still in an inflationary period you know during 23 and it's not easy to uh stay within the the budget plan all the time when you're in that environment and uh want to mention that the fact that the did a really good job overall and uh the next is the carryer forward and uh I mentioned the carryer forward was about 2.2 million we just wanted to list it as an example some of the larger larger items that that drive this carry forward uh the first item is encumbrances these are just these are General encumbrances that are attached to a PO at the end of the year the services were rendered in September but the but the the invoices come in in August excuse me in October November so uh that's what that represents and they're paid uh in the next fiscal year we had uh roof Replacements of 350,000 HVAC Replacements of 250,000 Patricia corrio enhancements of 156,000 community floors of 110,000 ready for 100 energy audit 100,000 Land Development code update 100,000 and Marina master plan and also Court resurfacing so those are the large items those total about 1.5 million of the 2.2 million and that concludes our general comments and happy to answer any questions thanks okay vice mayor I'll start with you yeah I mean I don't have really have a lot of questions um talk to Les behind the scenes a little bit to get up on it um you know just from a perspective I mean this is good news kudos to the staff for tightening their belt I think we went into 2023 2023 you know with caution because of the economy and U so this is good news and I think it took some work on their part obviously the Staffing piece is what still concerns me because it's good news bad news um based on at least Jennifer I'll ask you this question last vacancy wise we've got what 45 vacancies we had 45 vacancies before paying class we still have 45 vac I know they're not the same vacancies but my point is you know I just want to make sure we're approaching those issues in a good way 45 total vacancies as of a couple weeks ago of those there are about 10 that that have been recruited and and are in various stages of of uh onboarding great no I mean I I don't really have a lot of questions I think that this is good news and I think it will help us as we move forward into our budget and uh and again I know that it's not these aren't final either so we'll we'll see how they adjust out thank you commissioner Tor thank you mayor I'm going to save thank you mayor I'm going to save a a whole lot of time for everyone um I did review review each one of the numbers the entire package um listening to the presentation here it's fast it's quick it has to be and um and I there were no surprises having having looked at him before so um I'm going to go ahead and say that I don't have anything specific at this point in time as they said it was just a quick review so we could see where we stood so I appreciate that commissioner go thank you mayor um just actually more for the public just a real quick question uh Les is just can you remind me or the public what's the difference between budget and estimated yeah that's a good question uh the budget is our adopted budget in 2023 and then when we uh when we begin the budget process for 24 we uh we create every year we create this estimated column and that's that's really our estimate of where we're headed at the end of the year and we and we use that estimate to to develop our 24 budget too but the estimate is our estimate of what 23 will actually be we think it will be from from a revenue or expense standpoint and we we use that to kind of Drive our 24 budget and and and that estimate rolls into 24 as well uh as we as we develop the budget okay thank you um and when it comes to the revenue and right budgets are always kind of built with a historical perspective what's going on what are the trends like how much of our revenue is kind of still in the Quagmire of of Co and things of that nature and guesstimating where revenues are going to go based on shutdowns things yeah I think if I look at our Revenue our major if I look at the major Revenue sources which are property taxes sales tax uh electric tax I just mentioned Revenue sharing th those six items make up about 80% of our revenues uh those those the last I would say the last two last three years since covid those have grown at a at a much higher rate over that three-year period than they had before covid uh they were they were pretty flat sales tax was pretty flat uh well sales tax average is 3% a year I mean that won't say flat 3% a year is kind of what sales tax as average longterm here or in general at in the state from from what I've seen but I think I think the last 3 years since Co coming out of covid or two years I think we've had some really nice Revenue growth and some of that's just for for you know Duke Duke increase their rates that's you know that's U that's how that Revenue uh item went up last year you know during 2023 um and as a matter of fact on Duke you know I mentioned I think for 24 when we did develop the 24 budget our estimate from duke was they'd have a 3% increase in 20 in 2024 well now we've been told Duke has a 7% decrease in their rates for commercial so that's good news uh from an expense standpoint so we've our expenses for 24 we uh we increased our uh estimated electrical cost as a result of that 3% increase so our expense side for 24 is we're going to be uh we're going to be under budget uh in general because we budgeted that 3% increase but on the revenue side uh we'll get less we'll get less Revenue than we did in more than likely than we did in 23 because they reduced rates by 7% so I just want to but but overall I'd say that for most Revenue categories um I think we've had I I think we've had some pretty good growth the last couple years I think I think some will some of them will level off some but I think we've had some really good growth the last two or three years since Co and I know we had some pretty robust conversations uh during the the budget process uh for 24 and a lot of it was based on certainly where we were in 23 and um I I know I'm probably not alone on the D when I look at that percentage of 43% was not what was in my head and um uh so I don't I don't know whether that's a good number or bad number it's it's a concerning number for me uh but we're still preliminary stages and we're starting to go through our the starting the Strategic plan the budget process for 25 so I think we'll have much more conversation to have about that so there's no need to do it today um but I just found it interesting thank you that's very much thank you Mayor Rob yes ma'am thanks um this is probably more of a budget process question but um why do we call it preliminary actuals Vice just actuals only because uh I mentioned that we we know we're going to have uh we're still doing year own entries and uh and some of those entries may affect these numbers so just only for that Reon and the Auditors may have an entry or two that may affect them too okay great that perfect and um just to drill into this the the what we're seeing right now in the the under running of a labor expenses is that all due to unfilled vacancies yeah I would say I would say the majority of it is yes yeah it is I mean some departments more than others have Labor savings uh but yeah I would say the majority of that is is due to vacancies okay all right no thank you very much thank you I presume when you're looking at these numbers that you're looking at what you plan for 24 right yes some yes any concerns I saw a couple things that jumped out at me about well you know that's a good good question I I look you know when I look at 24 revenues budget uh I I looked at this a little bit this weekend uh you know uh for the the other taxes look low yeah yeah I think I think our revenues in 24 are going to be about looking at four months of actual I've looked at four months of actual 24 I think our revenues in 24 are going to be about 1 million more than what we have now yeah we' got interest earnings are are running are we were conservative on interest earnings we we don't know we weren't sure when the feds were going to start reducing rates or or the feds uh the short-term rates they're going to do it we just don't know when so I think interest earnings are going to be better than our budget and there's a few other line items but I would estimate about $1 million more in Revenue in 24 than we have here so when we um look at the budget I guess starting in May or June June um you'll have those uh estimated numbers there we will yeah we for sure and on the expense side I think the expense you know the expenses for 23 were really uh really you know if you if you take the the carryover into consideration and the labor savings labor savings may not be a good thing but but you know it it is what it is you know we were pretty much really close to budget plan on the expenses when you pack that in which is you know I mentioned the Departments did a good job and you've got you've got a huge jump in operating we do we do and uh some of those were uh ISF charges and things like that if you recall uh I mentioned part of part of that increase in operations was Duke Energy and so we we are uh we're going to be under budget with Duke for sure in some of these categories as I mentioned because they do they actually did reduce their commercial rates but yeah but I think the labor budget's pretty solid you know with with the adjustments we made last year uh in in 20 in for the 24 budget uh so I I I think our expenses I think will stay on plan and be pretty close but I do think the revenues will be a little more than we have here well I think when you look at it I mean yeah I know you're looking at the preliminary actual at the 43% but then just look at the next year and the next year I do yeah you know I mean it's it's just a temporary blip that isn't going to stay there yeah when it's really the 36.9 though I'm sorry you're right but still I mean then you're going down to you know for 2024 we're now showing to end it with 27% and then 2025 it's 21 so mhm you know I don't think that's a bad thing right now I also think if there is a little something extra well we've got a lot of projects that are maybe running short here or there so I just throw that out there um for that for those purposes and things that we actually moved out and that's why I just kind of it was more of a comment but I'm yeah it'll play out during this yeah not it will needs um and I think it's just really important for us to acknowledge the hard work you guys have done just like what you did today with uh with the roads several of us said go ahead and do it and you said no I stick to my budget so it's very evident when you're looking at this so thank you all of you for all your hard work and the department heads they did great they really did you're getting right into your Rhythm after six years that was in my rhythm years if you didn't have enough budget meetings to figure that out this year then I don't i' lose Faith No I'm teasing no but thank you very much appreciate it thank you thanks okay uh got a couple commission discussion items um commissioner torer you wanted to talk about the PM flag thank you mayor M I requested time uh today relating to the P Mia flag um suffice it to say for today it's just uh about an awareness of what it is um we had a federal law on a on a flag that was uh signed by President Clinton in November of 1997 and mandated that certain locations including the White House the cap and Veterans Affair and Postal Service all natural cemeteries in the in the system would fly this flag um I just wanted to uh uh just to make us aware of this just to bring up the subject we'll be hearing more about this shortly and as the captain of the ship said that is all for now okay thank you vice mayor you wanted to discuss waybridge waybridge Bridge waybridge Bridge so it sits between the tster S the town homes and I forget what the town H home's name is do you guys know Trails Trails C Trails um and and wridge and so um this has a history over the last gosh many yeah long time and I think that over the in in both waybridge subdivision and the town homes have been involved in those discussions as we go we've as we've gone along um a lot of the discussions over the years years have kind of been you know when when the the the uh walkway doesn't work anymore it's probably going to go away we're just going to tear down the thing because we don't have the money to rebuild it and I think there was an acceptance almost not maybe not total acceptance that that might be the case um but I think um so the bridge had to be closed couple weeks ago uh it was deemed just not safe and it's been being pretty much kind of tagged together so to speak as far as a pedestrian walkway or for bikes and so um anyway long story short uh this kind of restarted the conversation I know that um Public Works director Sue and utilities director Nan went out there took a look at it and you know we're concerned with the safety but I think there was a thing of like yeah this bridge ain't going anywhere no matter what because it's holding up some significant pipes um so it kind of shifts the conversation a little bit about when we we should be doing an assessment of this bridge in terms of you know and I don't want to quote anybody and get anybody worried but you know kind of the verbage was is the pipe holding up the bridge or is the bridge holding up the pipes um so it seems to me that we're at a point where you know sooner rather than later is when we need to do the assessment I think as part of the assessment we need to make sure we're you know including the residents because I think there there is a desire out there to potentially keep it as a walkway it's actually in our multimodal plan as a bike path even though it's not functional as a bike path um and um so the option may be may be different now which is the BR the bridge is not going to go away so as we decide how structurally sound it is then the next question becomes how affordable is fixing the walkway bike way part of it you know um because I I you know again I'm just kind of splashing out numbers staff can speak for themselves to do those pipe underground might be a million bucks so so we've got some I think there's just options but it starts with an assessment of the bridge and including you know the viability of it of staying a walkway or not as we figure out what's the best thing for the bridge overall so that's kind of my comments um we had talked about maybe this being discussed at our strategic planning session but our strategic planning session isn't the standard that we've done which is when we go through all our business plan items so I would have done it there but since now it's different we're going to be you know lost in mission statements um I thought I should bring it up now because I really there's there's a lot of interest in in um what happens with it but again there's a lot of realism about it but again I just want to have a good assessment of it and I want it to include that the option of it being affordable still to keep it as a pathway and maybe it isn't you know but it but if it is that would be awesome so um that's just my comments are you looking to do that through the budget process or like assess it now but then um I I just want staff to do what they feel is in the best interest safety-wise and you know so do maybe they want to respond to that what the best timing of it is so I'd like to if you don't mind uh discuss this with staff I have it on our department head meeting this afternoon and then come back with a plan moving forward one of the problems they had was kids right I mean that the people that live in the wridge side on that culde saac were complaining because the kids hung out there well they would jump off I mean you know and to me it's kind of like should you have it be a walkway and a bike way versus something holding up a pipe the kids are going to see as an attractive nuisance anyway I'm going to tell you that as a kid I hung out at the Patricia bridge at hammock we hung out there every Friday and Saturday night there's something about that with kids they like that connection it's it's natural for that to happen so I think it's you either accept it or you don't my advice but yeah I mean all I'm saying is I think we need an assessment and everything I've heard makes me think we need it much sooner rather than later and um and I just want to make sure we include the residents because there there is an interest again if it's not affordable it's not affordable but if the bridge isn't going anywhere that means it may be affordable to keep also the walkway component of it so that's it John thank you mayor I have uh I've been approached by several a couple people um separately uh concerning that issue um I have a a couple just before we make any decisions perhaps um a couple questions and then some comments but the first question is who owns that bridge who built that bridge and who owns that bridge come on up that we all should be aware of before we go off on any absolutely of course t team it's the Sunan show suffice it to say this this is a complicated problem um uh I've been trying to look at some research as to where we've gotten here Sue's been looking a little bit more at the condition assessment so we'll sort of play off of each other it was Scarboro who built the bridge uh the bridge plans were 1978 I don't know the actual date they got built but that range of time it was built with waybridge Woods subdivision and that area to the north was a conservation area so it was a bridge over to a Conservation Area subsequently I believe it was platted in I'm going off of memory I'm going to say 2002 um Kuru Trails was broken out as a separate area no longer a conservation area but now into town homes and the property ends right at the base of the bridge and in fact the curu trails plat has absolutely no public access to the north there is an Ingress egress easement that allows people that live there and like the Wastewater group to get into the lift station but they're absolutely absolutely is no Public Access beyond the the northern base of the bridge so those on from the ownership standpoint who owns that I couldn't determine you can't finalize that second of all the people from the access side um we have a community that lives on the other side of the big road they actually have no access into there coming from the other part of Duneden which is across the other side of of C which is called Palm Harbor uh that wheat that belongs to D that's correct well the um again we're still doing research but the property it sits on the bridge um was dedicated to the parks given to the parks department um and so the bridge has been maintained by the city of dun Eden um so they built it way Bridge um Woods subdivision built it but I haven't found the documents um that transferred it to us yet so through email strings I've I read that um that's what what happened and how we received it and then separately um there there are utilities that are on the substructure of the bridge there's an 8 in diameter watermain which is a you know a fairly Hefty um ductal iron pipe there's I believe a gas main uh some cables and I'm trying to determine if the force main is on the bridge or drilled underneath it appears that it's in a sovereign submerged lands lease so that may be drilled underneath it's we're being detectives because neither of us were involved so until we really determine that and determine who can do what to we right we have wow yeah exactly like Nan said it is is a complicated um complex issue um it it certainly it is closed now um that we cannot um repair that deck um with the current condition and and that's why we did budget in the next year's budget for an assessment on the super structure or substructure um as well as the rest so in conjunction with what was being asked here I I would like to make sure that that we get that information as as sort of as soon as possible since it is uh a an item that people would like to have that certainly live on the other side and some of the people that actually live well on both sides would like to use but but we really don't know what what's to be done with it at this point in time because we don't know that who owns it and uh who's responsible for for some parts of it well based on the property rights people have a right to access it from the south and go to the base of the bridge but they can't go any further north other than the landing of the bridge corre there are no property rights to continue onto curu or or through the um Town Homes there are no public property rights onto the town home properties any and has a bridge been closed so they don't have they even have that right at this point in time because we determined we determined that it needed to be closed but who owns it but if it we're open right now the only property rights that that the city has is right to the very base of it you can walk over the bridge hit the landing and turn around and walk back south there's nowhere to go from it's a bridge to nowhere there are no e with Public Access so there is no way to get Public Access that would be something we'd have to work with the ho8 in order to establishement I'm not saying pay for it I'm just saying you know and this is my this is my point it's extremely complicated but you have a lot of different views over there and so and and I and one of those views could be you know we want it so we'll work with you to give what you need to have I I don't know because it's all wrapped up in you know what is the you know good point I mean you know who really has the jurisdiction who really owns it who are the real players like what do we have to fix versus not have to fix how affordable is adding a walkway and does do they want want it bad enough to to give a little bit I think those are all parts it's all to me it's just I think there's interest over there and those neighbors should be players in it whether it ends up to be something that can be that makes sense to keep as a walkway or just it's not affordable um because it's not enough access to enough people I don't know but I do know right now when I hear we're not sure if what's holding the is it the bridge or the pipe you know that tells me that assessing it and and figuring out the pieces as we go is probably you know not something we should put off too long that's all so so there's a lot to untangle here there's a lot to untangle absolutely and I absolutely agree with uh with John as well I mean there there's a lot to untangle but again I I I I think you have a lot of willing people over there that you know they care about it I think they've accepted it might not be an affordable thing but at the same time who knows we start down a path and see where we end up so to speak since it is part of our multimodal plan by the way Jeff yeah I'm not sure how it it ended up there um no I'm not sure either n's the one that found it cracked me up it was built um as a p the design as a pedestrian bridge okay I'm assuming I mean we're going to have to look at it anyway so I don't think it's whether we give direction to look at it I mean you have to look at it yes M yeah I think my only point is let's keep all options on the table and work with the neighbors too if it ends up making sense great if it doesn't it doesn't you know so great thank you yes thank you do you want to bring up your thing oh we're not running over no actually I'm surprised that where we are in time I too we'd be knocking at the door thank uh yeah just wanted to let the commission know I um Clearwater bowling Lawn Bowling which is on Edgewater Drive it's in Clear Water just south of Sunset Point that we've all driven by shuffle board well it's shuffle board and and Lawn Lawn Bowling um I got a request uh from them uh they're trying to organize a challenge between the city Duneden commission and the Clear Water Commission and just wanted to know if there was any interest from this commission uh to get involved with something like that so this is not a formal request from the city of Clearwater it is from the people who are running uh that they've got an election going on they're not going to give us the time of day oh wait so this they aren't so their election is who asking us it's the the people who are managing oh they want to do they're trying to talk to them and talk to us yes after the election yeah after the election yeah which election a little busy right now we're pretty busy we're pretty busy right now the next one well we're going to be with them the blue J's game I mean yeah well but if it's if the request isn't coming from them it's not you know yeah I I don't even know if they've been asked yet I don't know I I probably will not be there okay I I do have to ask the question I never see anybody over there no I know me neither I mean it's is it uh and they and this is probably part of what they're trying to do certainly uh Co kicked him the teeth it is primarily a Canadian in Scotland sport Scottish port and so they do get a lot of attention from Canada and from many Scottish tourists that might be visiting uh which is probably what they're trying to do they're trying to tie a stronger connection uh between those two countries and and d and clar water uh which is smart and so that is one reason why I certainly embrace it but also I know that I'm not involved in any elections right now so it's easy for me to say this year so just I thought I'd throw that out there put that out there uh certainly uh I think they might be meable if not a dunen commission team a city of dunen team so it might incorporate City staff but I do like the concept it's friendly challenge lawn B bend down roll ball and it's so just game on yeah I might be interest so okay so do I have I'm sorry John thought Jorge looks like he's ready to play he's got his outfit at home I is totally ready okay I'm just pretty busy but I y'all could go ahead and and so how about we just open it up to a city of den Eden team yeah that sounds good and if that ends up being all commissioned great if not then that's fine too sure all right good very and so I didn't know whether I was going to bring this up so I did ask uh Lindsay to send us all an email so we might have already gotten that email not quite sure yet so disregard that email since we talked about it on the days okay city clerk's update I don't have anything mayor thank you okay City manager's update yeah just a couple things very quickly um first of all in regards to energov we are not live we are not live we are not live um we had some issues with cashiering which is this this is the intergov is the building module online development online yeah module number three of Erp and so um we had some issues with cashiering uh we had some issues minor issues actually with the third pass of information and so um last Friday uh Michael Nagi and I uh uh spoke with the vice president of Civic engagement of Tyler Technologies as well as the Director of they call it EPL now hi call it eppl now and um uh that's the new name for their application um and expressed uh sincere and great displeasure on the timing uh Michael put together a really good timeline of of anov um suffice it to say we have a strategy moving forward uh right now a good strategy a strong strategy we will have implementers here in the city of denen uh when we go live I'm not going to give you a date but I have dates um they will be here pre uh go live during the go live and after the go live as well don't give dates and no I didn't give a DAT happens yeah and we will also have uh we will not be playing any more uh uh will not be uh uh dedicating funds to energov um anymore we've we've paid for it already we're not paying for travel for the implementers the Tyler is paying for that um and so I'm confident that that this go around they'll be here and we will go live within the time frame specified question um I know you're not going to give dates but you must have gotten off that call with some sense of worst case scenario I did yes I I have specific dates when they implementers will be here when we'll do the preo live go live and and post go live is it before a year or it is it most certainly before 6 months it most certainly is yes three months yes okay thank you it is um and and one other thing too mayor um just to bring you all up to speed really quickly we did have a meeting um last Wednesday which is January 31st with uh North Douglas uh and that was a follow-up meeting that we committed to last November uh it was a good meeting we um we we were able to articulate what we've done in in the intervening period what we have yet to do we had a couple videos to share with them was Tracy there and got their input no I don't think so no because I mean she she posted yesterday I know I saw it um and then the the other uh we also had a meeting with a consultant to talk about um remedies in the north Douglas area as well it's a different set of issues in North Douglas uh putting everything on the table uh looking at short-term long-term uh midterm remedies for for their sunny day flooding as well as um you know what kind of funding we're looking at uh for the north Douglas Area so we have been active in both of those I you know I did see as in association with a with a Facebook page for that for that one person that the city hasn't been doing anything the city's been doing a lot and and interacting with those residents quite a bit so well I'm just disappointed that she's not there but she's posting on social media and that's several times now right so yes that's true thank you mayor uh City attorney update nothing nothing NADA okay final commission comments on your leaz on positions vice mayor uh welcome back Blue Jays we'll be before we meet again I think it's the 17th M so golf cart parade lots of fun at the Ballpark you know welcoming back to Blue Jays and just having fun it was a big success last year that way I think brought a lot more families in and so hopefully it'll be the same way I did want to mention also that I was in attendance uh as was uh commissioner Walker and and the mayor at the um the International Film Festival Gayla at with the red carpet we all walk down the red carpet um for the film festival and uh it was and uh anyway it was great and um uh the mayor gave a key to the city to U Martin Co Martin Cove and uh I need the pictures oh okay sorry well I'm just getting them so I'll look at them um so uh and for those that don't remember Taste Of Love is going to be on Hallmark Channel Monday February 19th at 8 p.m. so um anyway it's obviously great views of the city so if you don't even guys that don't really like you know the uh chick flick Hallmark stuff um it's great views of den Eden so it's well worth tuning into so it's an acquired taste exactly exactly actually I think Jeff likes them too the call Mark movies right I love Hallmark toel yeah I love Hallmark Channel oh yeah so yeah you don't want to know what my husband calls that channel okay we won't get into that because we're excited about homework Channel okay all right anyway that's all I had to report thank you very much okay commissioner Toro thank you mayor um relating to the Alward dun Eden Golf Club they appears to be ending the shall I say season uh very very strong that's as in relationship to my liaison position um chair hofaker is uh is always on the top of his game and I'll leave it at that um Sunco League of cities uh recently within the last two weeks uh had a meeting again to review some of the key legislative uh issues for us to bring forward to uh to our various senators and representatives um additionally I did go up to uh Tallahassee um spent some time with a number of people but also in a couple cases for denen Alone um mostly all relating to home rule of course um we met with uh representative Anderson as well as burfield and Senator Hooper and some other uh uh members of of con Congress as well uh just bringing some of the points home that relate to home rule and the importance of uh of allowing us to attempt to do what we do best or what we're supposed to be doing best and that is to run the municipal government um and so just seeking their support to do that and some some really good meetings with those folks um as well as some some various others uh that we did that we did meet with so there's just a lot of things going on as we all know there's normally about a th000 bills they're still in some some uh subcommittees if they don't make it out of that of course we won't see them so we'll see I guess we'll see what happens we gave have our input the best of our ability thank you thank you commissioner G anything I just I want to congratulate the dunan high school girls soccer team second unit road district Champs all right go lady Falcons y from uh just a reminder uh den and car's Gaya is on March 3rd Sunday should be we all have the save the date uh should be getting some more details out here shortly uh second item uh we're in the planning stages for the um garden party and that will be April 21st okay uh I sent you all the letter from forward pelis to uh the sigle and what they're trying to do to Regional npos which is you know not great uh we have a workshop next week to talk about the long range Transportation plan and of course you know everybody's eyes start rolling us as I start talking about tourist Transportation so it ought to be a lively meeting um I think that's about it that I have to report right uh the history museum that meeting is next week so I mean I haven't been since the holidays so I don't really have a whole lot to report right now but thank you all right is that it for everybody we are adjourned on time look at [Music] that [Music]