explain that to me once more about the perhaps I'm misinterpreting sure so the question was uh is the entire project age restricted and the answer is yes you get the entire project is age restricted you have to market the entire project as age restricted the 80% refers to who's actually occupying the unit and so the reason for that is that's under the federal hope statute housing for minut older people act or something like that um the reason for that is if you you have a situation where you got 55 plus who's married to someone who's under the age of 55 spouse can live in the apartment situation and if the older person were to pass away that person could still continue to reside in the project it wouldn't wouldn't be Mark Mark okay I thought there was something else and maybe it's this that I misinterpreted but I thought there was another somewhere that said a 55 and older project if you had 100 units only 80 of them had to be age restricted and that the remaining 20 could be sold as non-ag restricted I suppose that that's something you could do Under the statute but it would lead to risky situations where you've got 20% of your units from the GetGo that are being marketed and occupi that under 55 yes technically you could do that we're not proposing to do that we can write that the agreement but that would be the potential situation where you fall outside of okay I just wanted to make sure that was clear yeah that's we're not proposing to do that there's a whole series of technical requirements that you have to comp okay um Jo you have a question your comments um are you I didn't understand are supporting the no I I don't I I think that the issue Karen I think summarized it and I think he kind of elaborated on a little bit these guys are prepared for their original number that pencil saw them I think the fourth floor and I'm from off base here they'll jump in I think the fourth floor was given them so that we could add additional um affordable units and you know the reality is they they penciled that that that lower number and you know it's that was the whole motivation behind adding the fourth floor together but if we're just going to add units for the sake of adding units and it pencils for they going to make money on this project if they don't make that project won't get finished and they'll both be out on the clothes line someplace and so you know they've got significant financial liability in this project it's not we ain't talking about 100 Grand it's a lot of money and um so to answer your question no I I I don't about three buildings uh three levels 156 units uh well with the other that's where I'm going I'm based on his comment it sounds like he was I was just yeah no no we tossed that in about two weeks ago we said well you know if we do I mean you know what we're trying to what this board is trying to do is come to a common understanding of what works for the town are we going to hit everything no we're not going to hit everything but I think we've hit most of it and you know I I you know I got to tell you I there have been nights I've gotten up at 2 o'clock in the morning and ran through his budget numbers because I was concerned I'm very concerned about the financial viability of the town going forward and all these people with that have come forward with these water bill issues that project atiz that water bill over all those units and helps us immensely with that and we owe this I mean I mean Dan St Jean's water bill is like $4,000 for kindal L and it's because of the infrastructure improvements this this thing there's not there's never going to be anything like that in this town never ever there isn't and and and it's tucked away on the side I I I like the project I've liked it from day one I like their approach to it they've got a lot of Professional Resources tied into this thing these guys are into this thing for a lot of money even right now today as sits this isn't a how phally [Music] down okay good remember we have an 8 acre lot across the street right the tring un that's not lost on me what about that one for a while that's the main reason why we weren't able to build that out was because of water we have water access to that to that 8 you're talking about D the triangle yeah the property that was bought for senior housing well it wouldn't be in the field it's in the back the field is do open space I've had I've had that one on my little land use group can uh play with that one so to go back to number 11 um we had sort of struck this I think when we sent it back to you and you're coming back and saying that you're asking for the fees for the water associated with the water line only at this point the fees be waved well and not all building fees cuz that you know as you know that's a major source and and just as a frame of reference in order to do that we we because it's water and we have a water board they they do need to kind of wave this through and on huh the water board should yeah they got to wave that I mean I don't anticipate a problem but we're not here to usurp them in any way if they're going to wave a fee they ought to be involved in the decision- making process and that's it I don't yeah I mean you the board decide you just take it out yeah I mean mat I don't I it's just a courtesy they need to you know they we just want them in the loop right Defence for that absolutely and so yeah any other questions may ask on that to remove that or put something in providing for for example subject to the approval of law yeah so you're going to need two qualify and Jason please speak up you need two qualifiers one Town Council needs to he hasn't done that yet all right I'm not anticipating a problem Jesse but if he does we got to work through that and we and believe me we will and then the Water Board needs to weigh in because this we don't want to usurp our water board there they going to say yes or no if they say no I can't imagine why they would that they I I'm guessing that there there happy to see this project it takes a lot of stress off of them right now they've got you know we've got a delinquency rate on our water bills I get it I understand it um and so they're going to be happy to see that influx of new revenues so we can kind of cool this down a little bit right I mean we're out chasing people to put in tenas on the water tower because we're trying to figure out a way to put some money into the thing right and we we don't have any takers for it and and you know we're doing as a from our perspective we're doing all we can to help these people out with these insane water bills they can't get any self service so they can't tell us that they want to participate all I got it's true though we tried I mean we we are trying on that we are we we're very aware of it first time we've tried so just a step back so we have a draft Motion in front of us that we could specify the 156 housing units and subject to approval by Town Council and dun water board right you know essentially just so these these folks know what yeah so vote that we approve that motion that they know what their marchings orders are and expectations are so on this motion the of XXX housing units will become 1566 before before you vote on the question of pending approval of the water board just to m point if we could offer the suggestion that that be just written into the agreement and the reason why I suggest that is because I think these guys are are eager to move forward and obviously we need to get Town Council to weigh in on the agreement to offer recommendations for Chang needed the water Bo to m point I think is something we can negotiate with them down the road well I think if they look at say okay these guys are putting millions of dollars in just water construction ground and we're not pay forage if they look at it that way I don't think it' be a problem but it's a town and they typically have their hand and that's cuz they're looking for the Rees and that's that's concern okay we're going to we're going to we're going to and they they're autonomous right they're an elected board they have their own right we certainly have some influence with them it's their decision right it is their deis well I think we might because we're going to we're getting ready to yeah or modify it somehow to say you know pending uh because the water board just may say fine they they may very well do that we don't know or we wait until you meet with them and then we revise this no I would do that so then we can simultaneously have our Town Council review it and give us their feedback just because you know Town council's busy with a couple other things we got going on so I'd really like to have their eyes on it and go absolutely as possible just like they have you know the representative Jesse we should have our Brian or whoever it is you know it's currently in their hands as as amended okay so okay so I think we're we're ready here I don't not to put a I'm just going to add to that motion so that it qualifies with those two issues with it do you have any others I was just going to ask a question about the garage if this came up out of the room I apologize is there a way to put a Time frame within that so understanding your issue in the way it's written which is good idea however could you could we put um you know within within a year of building the issu complete something something like that or no more than three years from the date of construction or any number that is reasonable can B so and we've talked about this all right and you just listen if you were here listen to the story about the existing fire station right and whether or not that building would qualify to support fire department is still TBD to be determined but if I follow the bouncing ball here that project is several years in the future before you would complete it and turn that building over to the town we don't have that kind of time we're going to have to make a decision with the current fire station relatively soon what's soon I don't know couple weeks kidding but I'm just saying I wouldn't want to be tied Jim to having that building serve as construction operations for five years which it might take to build that project out that the existing fire station doesn't have five years or more it doesn't have that kind of time and I get the you know the whole chapter 149 thing we're you know we get it we understand it we don't like it but we got to live with it and you know he's got Town administrators got some rulings from the state about how that happens you know there are other this isn't the first time we've been through this the city of LOL went through this about 5 years ago if you were involved in it or around our uh housing project that was built that was going to be on a sale leaseback Arrangement and the Attorney General said no and the project was lost by millions of dollars to come up with chapter 149 we don't want to put ourselves in that position we want to understand our liabilities and figure it out from there and that's one of them and so if you use this Construction office along the way there is some new bathrooms and showers and all these other things get put in and those guys use it for some value right and then the building gets turned over to us then we're at least in a position to understand how chapter 149 does not apply that's all sure we there while building it then we get some yeah yeah but we don't have we don't have that kind of time on we just don't that fire station is is a the fuse is lit on it believe me it is yes what kind of time frame yeah that's I would think so kind what I was thinking no no no Year from the issu of building i% [Music] I think that's that's that's okay I I I do I think you know we if you listen to us we just spent money showing up the roof of the fire station and I don't it's to Karen's point it's a black hole it's like strling the drain how about a year or mutually agreeable because there's a world where no no more than a year Well you want you're to geted so there needs to be some flexibility there yeah [Music] that's because that gives us because we may need some time to get clarity on how we want to use that building and they may need time to they're going to use it as a storage and Mech you know mechanics space and then they're going to flip it over to us it may take some time for that to be repaired and it could go through some facelift along the way that they're they need to do on their [Music] owning we're just going to bring it back to existing condition from SE as the issue make more sense I would imagine [Music] you guys have modifi yeah so but I'll start it so and then Mr Jason's scratch this around here so I'm going to move to approve submitting a local initiative petition lip application to the executive office of Housing and livable communities which must be their new name I guess right jointly with Brattle Development LLC for the development of 156 housing units on property located at 41 Lowel Street and further approv submitting a letter of support for the project and authorize a Town Administrator to sign both the lip application and the letter of support on behalf of the board and also approved the Land Development agreement between the town of dustable and Brattle Development LLC and authorize the Town Administrator to sign the Land Development agreement LDA on behalf of the board subject to the review and approval of the LDA by Town Council and um the the town dunable water board how do you want to frame that yeah I would am I would in the motion amend the LDA to add and let's see section 10 last sentence add the word subject to approval by the law of board okay then in section six the Dumont garage property they officially called The Water Commission no it's the water board is it the water board or the Water Commission commission so section section six is the use of the is the and then section six we want to add [Music] language okay that look okay makes sense to me so the language but in no event after let's see I find constr the project buildings oh there we go thank you so on Section 6B after the word infrastructure but in no event later than one year following issuance of building permanence for project construction in parenthesis or as otherwise agreed between the parties she's going to need to capture that yeah we got it okay yep I have one more thing to so on the front page where we're discussing the 156 is that going to be Rewritten um yes you'll rewrite that because it says can contain not less than one 156 units I think before you said up to yeah I think that was the previous language okay I'll go to that and make sure that the numbers scw those are right good are we in agreement on those Council on those modifications this one here yes going to read that once more just is that okay or is that too too liquid no I mean well I've read the motion and so the motion is going to contain modifications to it just right just add just amend the motion to say the LDA as amended okay so we're going to have all right so the motion soe will read um in the last sentence um the LDA as amended is that right I'd like a little tweaking to the number four too just the wording is Little's the not construct any dwelling units within 60 foot buffer zone of wetlands delineated it should say of any Wetland resource area as defined in the wetlands protection act that's Define in the wetlands protection act which would would seem to make sense yeah it's still under cont under their control it's just more technically correct it is okay that's our motion I think we made the changes who's going to capture those Jason did you already get the changes on the think he's right in those now I'll let him finish and then I will second it it's just a strike not less than and and not more than 208 dwelling units just should say will contain 156 drawing RS period not more than6 units period right not more than not more than okay and then the yeah mix is correct except when you get to the multi just take that out yeah so strike the word from and strike to 176 and then everything else was good y [Music] I think number 10 um fourth sentence from the last which says if the cost to perform these tasks exceed $25,000 the developer shall pay it just says the developer pay for all which one where is that um in number 10 page six page on page five on mine on six um number 10 is on down towards the bottom that last sentence well the second to last sentence if the cost to perform these tasks exceed 25,000 the developer May will will pay shall Jesse this LDA that we have you drafted this yes okay I seconded that motion as it was amended all in favor favor okay good luck God spe yeah it got to sell itell all right folks is there anything else that we need to address tonight there's meeting I would like to Jason I'm actually in the community and I've been noticing around all new signs think yeah yeah yeah yeah you you say yeah yeah yeah but they're actually really important I don't no I've seen I'm seeing them [Music] everywhere so it's a road sign that says maintain four feet from a bicyclist what it does is if you're driving it creates some awareness not just drive these people off the road and so I what he's saying I support I don't know that we have capacity to put those signs up well I think there are places we could but there's there is a it's important to have them but I think in a limited fashion and maybe in some strategic places because otherwise you get this visual sure too many signs ruin the [Music] hijack Ro M after border I think are probably the most important ones because when I'm almost driven off the road it's either someone in a pickup truck or someone inere stere well we should can take a look as to where we may want to put them strategically but I don't know exactly how we sign about the law for Massachusetts wasn't just for bicyclist it was for definition is vulnerable Road users no wait a minute definition is what vulnerable Road users I technically Runners Walkers so that's wants to do thing and get I think our road commission act like will end up having to approve location in the sign I remember correctly I think we approve signs going up they recommend or approve where they can I remember a stop sign didn't we just approve a bylaw thats no signs ever yeah I hate to think of you guys out there risking your life you know if we never put up sign take under advis see what location if you have a couple recommended locations maybe Sheriff the board so the so mot is given these signs away to use so if we want to put our they still have no signs on any any po any what you call po utility poles yeah signs on there but I suspect there's speed limit signs in some of these situation and usually at least I know the town I grew up in which is inct they just attach another sign down below it some of in my cycling travels I've seen them doubled up I've seen them running you wear a sandwi mywi oh yeah I've been smoke before yeah it's a little thorough and it's freshly paved every like I do think it might not be a bad idea to land a car Jo I believe I understand but I think it might not be a bad idea to land a few of those but I'm going to tell you one other thing because I'm gonna right I travel this road every day like a lot of people do I'm going to tell you some of these folks on these bicycles and there is a length they're challenging the motor vehicles and you know that there's you know there's a nooba Cycling Association that's and and you know they have rules and you know these they're flashing lights on everything else and they're out and there why we have that's why we have rail Trails you know for somebody to ride their bike on like 113 you see them all the time yeah you do and I I can't tell you how many times I driven into town at 5 miles hour because that road is so windy that I'm afraid to on it and you know it just you know there's some places where where you know bicycles and Runners should be and and some places maybe not so with all when people try to pass the road all right we will look into it we'll look at some spots where maybe they can go it's something that we'd have to work in conjunction with the highway department and um but that's the best that we can promise you at this point so is there anything else before we adjourn this meeting I read Jason's report so I'm sured it's not it somehow got dropped from the agenda so you don't have to listen to me go through my town administ I think we've covered most of it you have yes great all right motion motion to adjourn so move all in favor what do you mean --------- Monday May 28th border meeting is called to order walk through our agenda for everybody tonight um we do call a meeting to order uh an feda Kenny recognition a National Grid poll hearing we're going to reorganize the board actually we're going to move that around and bring that to the top of the list approval of meeting minutes Economic Development Committee recommendation recommendations some yearend transfers a discussion regarding uh pest litigation of which is um different for us uh annual reappointments um Municipal electricity aggregation Consulting contract 41 Lowel Street a lip discussion and topics not reasonably anticipated by the chair so I'm not seeing a public comment in here but that's okay neither here there so we're going to move our board around post election right which we kind of do sure we with that sure Leah Chairman's Ro Mr me Vice chair and Ron will take over in the lowlevel position down the bottom someplace where I keep the I can't get pecked at you can keep the gab yeah it's good to be a Ratt Rouser though me tell you I'm on board with that I've been known to do that a few times so I guess I should create a motion to reorganize the board to uh BB's chair yeah Kieran Vice chair and Nicole member second all favor hi hi speed yeahoo all right I've been seen Ron such a good Mo I know seriously it's very free I remember thinking that last year like all right well there we are welcome everyone um so I guess we will start off with the second agenda on the item item on the agenda either way you get the point um is for an petti who is retiring from her position with the the seniors and the council in aging and uh so we wanted to recognize you for that and uh we know you've been with this organization this group for for quite a long time it's um 7 and A2 years it's almost eight years before that library right so you moved to Dunstable I have a few notes Here you moved to dunable in 200 24 years under your belt in 2001 she began volunteering for the Dunstable Kingsboro Historical Society a great group 2011 and began working for the town of Dunville at the public library and you've been the director in the Council of Aging past seven and a half nearly eight years and you've also volunteering a variety of boards and committees currently serving in the cultural Council so you've spread yourself around quite a bit know at all yeah then they're done that someone my we yeah was probably Judy ler okay so we just want to thank you for your 13 years of service for the town and um 24 23 years of volunteering service for the community and just wish you the best in your retirement and don't be a stranger we hope you can maybe you can sort of fill in the you know the aid part of the senior lunches and stay visible everyone really appreciates you being there so also enjoy time off time offest the biggest problem Ann has is she's right across the yeah whenever we need her have a question we wasn't here they would drive to my house so anyway we took care of that after a while but then they get me at the dump with the grocery store you're doing better now so for that we would like to present you with this certification of appreciation we proudly presented to an Fetti on on May 28 2024 for your dedication to the Dunville Public Library the Dunville Council and agent and the community is forever grateful your 13 years of service apprciate it [Music] all right um Jason were there some things you wanted to take out of order on this agenda or I think we should do the hearing next the National Grid heing do we have somebody from National GD okay I'm sorry all right so we will open the hearing for the National Grid they are proposing to do some work on four poles along Hardy Street cutting of a few trees to then replacing those with um support polls I believe guy wise okay so yeah come on up you [Music] can yeah sure thank you so good evening everyone my name is ISU I'm representing national g tonight for this B hearing uh purpose of this hearing is because I was contacted by the tree W Michael regarding of the tree guys which is essentially a support wire from our HS going into some trees um obviously the issue with that is the trees R um they become bad they become hazardous so therefore it's not really a long-term solution so uh what I proposed is for PS four five seven and 8 uh they're going to have new support structures and taking out the tree guy and therefore that's going to maintain the longevity of the pole and uh pretty much make sure and falls over um so for polls four 7 and 8 we're going to install what's called a push P so exactly what you said it's essentially a support pole pushing against the pole uh currently standing um and that way it support the removal of the tree guy so that the forces have balance and pole five is going to be a pole across the street with a with your normal guy anchor into the ground so that way it's supported for that in as well um and on top of that there's a few hazardous trees in the area I've got in contact with r Warden and she's is willing to take everything um that's Hazard hazardous around the area to get so I'm familiar with all these they're all two or are either on my property my nephew's property or my parents property I'm familiar with all of these um in the other two down the street I also know you as well and I'm very aware of the tree that is falling a little fall in my house if that yeah right um so I've had a chance to really review these and look at them and I personally don't have any issue with them um anybody else does I don't I know are there any residents here that live in this area found that questions I know last time we was this the same one we talked about last time that we had residents or was that M Street okay I just sure yeah no no questions then for me sounds like necessary work so I know there are some folks on the about I don't these aren't going to happen anywhere on your good okay yeah we have am I because I'm reading through this I read through this so we have utility polls that are tied off to trees yes that's okay is that an engineering standard for National Grid uh not anymore it was like over 50 years ago um unfortunately it should have never happened yeah you know but massachus is known for doing that unfortunately so anytime we see one we try to kick it out at C for us and you're going to put a kicker to replace it that correct and you're not replacing the pole uh some of them we will replace but um replacing the pole to know require um a hearing so some of them because they're short or some or rotted we're going to replace them as well yeah one was in a I thought I took pictures but I can't find them this big white pine tree that's just fully rotted out and it's in the rotted branch and the other one's more of a spindly little maple that's also in distress great okay I think I'm going to have a separate question I don't know whether you were involved in this or not but at some point soon the town is going to want an update on the status of the substation replacement on Pleasant Street Extension okay okay and I'm going to ask the Town Administrator to get with you because I want a line on that right that substation scheduled to be replaced with substation it's three times the size of the ones there okay and I want to know I I would like to know what's going on course sure uh going I need to talk to my supervisor get more details yeah yeah can you we want to be in the loop with that I I know there's some engineering issues with it but okay you know there's also some issues with security as well as the operation of that substation fire protection there's a whole lot of things going on there that we're sitting here going huh and I don't want to be in that position I really don't I know it's still off in the distance but it's not far off in the distance that we became noticed that they were going to replace that with a significantly larger substation okay since then we don't know we're going what I don't want to so I'm going to ask if you could contact the Town Administrator and just give us a construction schedule and a little bit of the demographics of it and so forth are there going to be outages I don't know is I mean that substation serve two towns and I mean I don't know they taken line down or I I don't know we would like to know sure no that's not an issue I use some answers otherwise this poll issue as far as I'm concerned um I think it's necessary yeah motion move to approve National Grid to erect and maintain polls and wise to be placed thereon together with such sustaining and protecting fixtures as said company May deem necessary as proposed in the public way or ways there here and after referred to as in petition dated 18th of April 2024 um in the following locations hotti Street National Grid to install four so poles on Hardy Street beginning at a point approximately 645 ft Northwest of the central line of the intersection of Hardy and Thorndike and continuing approximately 770 ft to a Northwest Direction National Grid to install push braces on polls four and seven and eight and also install one new poll po number 5- 84 with an anchor and further to Grant permission to lay and maintain underground lateral cables in wires in the above or intersecting Pol public ways for the purpose of making connections with such polls and buildings as each of said petitions petitioners may desire for Distributing purposes it's the longest motion second is there any further discussion yeah I might have one I I I'm you know you got a bunch of residences here are these poles Riser poles for underground services um so most of them I don't believe so uh if they are we do we do what's called a cut and kick so we kind of just cut off the pole the very top of the pole and the place what it's necessary put the botb together so that everything's in place or side set it and put the Riser back up so it'll be replaced no risers will be there's not going to be any outages I okay CU don't think we we do and we have some other people here too that may be affected by if I mean if the Pole's red you're going to pull it out you're going to take an outage right well so so it depends sometimes we can kind of suspend things uh with with with some equipment yeah I understand I'm not sure no that's Pro that's fine as long as we're because the underground laterals and all that wire and cable affects individual hom yes I understand okay so actually I do have one more question we can approve this all those in favor hi hi um there is a poll across from the Thorndike Street there's that old white barn and there's a poll that is at like a 30° angle is there any proposal to do any work for that uh so I I haven't been out there in a little bit so if you guys if someone could just call it in as a work request and just have an set up as inquiry I'll definitely go out there double check and if it is our point is leing will definitely replace it in obviously so okay cool just a phone call all right great thank you great everyone all right moving on the next thing is the approval of minutes for May 13 2024 that was our quick meeting we had just before the town meeting I wasn't there for that but um I'll move that we approve the meeting minutes um they approv the meeting minutes of the May 13 2024 select board meeting to all those in favor I next up the economic development committee recommendations we have Jeff Rosen here he is chairing that committee yeah yeah so for those who don't know me I'm Jeff Ros Hall Street I'm the chair of the development committe uh we've had several meetings so far our first recommendation is kind of in my mind the lowest hanging of fruit it's it's the easiest for us to recommend I think it's the easiest of things to get going it's not anything specific that I have to do the board but the exact language I wrote in the email was the select should establish a new committee and I'm trying to give a better name I'm trying to uh the event committee this group this should establish a group of people dedicated to creating developing and improving on the framework of the 350 committee annual events such as Farm festivals lock parties 5Ks I'm actually wearing the 5K EV they are money makers I think should be planned and implemented by the um there's so much everyone I talk to love the events that happen with the 350 committee and there is definitely a momentum there of framework I was actually U meeting a new a new set of people with young parents in town that have been town for a couple years she is a professional events planner like for corporate groups I'm telling her about this idea this weekend and she goes oh i' love to get involved back tried to be involved with 350 committee but I time to De so I'm like well you on you help schedule so that's our first recommendation as the so do you think that it really wants a new committee or is it something that just could be sort of we could rework the mission of the economic development committee to do this or is your group really not I think we have you know we're trying to work with ncog and we're we're going to do some joint work with the land use committee and we're going to start sending out service to businesses it's it's I think I think we have enough to do and I I we did could make it it was and I just I think there' be an energy that could be Taps to to do that thing I also don't know nor do I yeah I think I would create that like a make sure you think of the office what they call like the event the party planning Comm which everyone you know I think it was pretty funny show to watch in general um my thought would be in the short term that it's like an it's I think in the summertime it'll be very popular with sort of leveraging Wednesday concerts in the common and I saw a recent Friday lter field thing so maybe it's more of an ad hoc Committee in the short term and see if the legs grow and if it really catapults into the fall in in the wintertime um because then that sort of takes the onus off your group and it takes the onus off the other land use group and lets them sort of run with it and see what they come up with right um because I think the 350th did a great job sort of they had a vision and then they were did the execution over time over almost a year and a half and I think it started a little small and they grew into these awesome events and with the fireworks and things like that the H down so I'm not opposed to let the group run you know especially if they're going to do their own I guess necessarily fundraising but idea generation and things like that and they can go with their own name which be better so and I wonder too so there are a lot of other events that are already out there and happening you know through the cultural Council or other groups so the summer concerts and whatnot if you know taking what you said and then going forward with that would do you anticipate this commit sort of joining forces with all of those and being responsible for all of the events that are going on in town rather rather than having these little yeah I of events yeah I think that one of the things that there there's lots of committees things in town but there's lots of disjointed Communications and marketing and so to me this committee could sort of fild that role you know some sort of coordinated I love every but together and making sure that say events don't happen the same time right there's there's those sorts of coordination it that's more than just messaging so I think that could be pass for this group and this could possibly get aligned with the economic development group that I'm involved with with Margaret scar uh just it would be in their category anyway I think think that me a little life it almost be now we have the idea think of if other groups have recommendations in in terms of who they'd like to see participate in it and I don't want to constrain anybody because I think we're lucky to get any volunteers to do anything in town because it's such a challenge sometimes um but if you knew like we we want a Parks and Rec person an economic developers person you know whoever else think would be useful you know president at large basically so I don't know I have no opposition to it I think more ideas we have going in the veteran Town yeah think it sounds why not give it a try and see what you can pull together yeah fall we're no better off than we are now and then come back to you say hey hey je how about your I like spinning it back right yeah in terms of leg work now do we need to make a motion or is it really just for us to think of you need a motion to form the committee yeah if you want do you want to form it is that the direction well if we're going to form it we would have to give it a name Y and we would have to give it charge yeah I can come back with a yeah maybe the next meeting we come back party I'm not gonna promise that I can come back with a framework for you to consider yeah yeah we can take it up at our next meeting meeting I think it's great idea and and so we'll move it forward by creating a charge right which and then picking some people to join it or volunteer for it Su looks ready I'm committed she's charge look at a great idea yeah that would be great say something about one events and she's talking about traic patterns this and those are things I don't fundraising too just from experience 350 think to [Music] be cool yeah no thank you for the idea we look to more formally organize that the next meeting so all right thank you um did you want to take the year and transfers to the last yeah the advisories meeting at joining us at 6 and they only have two folks here so we can yeah skip if you want to do p fast next do the P fast next and see where we are with time all right so the next item on our agenda is um the P litigation um I'm sure we have someone here for that yeah I'm going to hand it right off to Han noton who's here to talk about um the work he's doing and absolutely like um sure sure this is I understand you're really constrained for time so not that constraint time could you introduce yourself first absolutely my name is ankon I'm a partner in the napi skullnick law firm and I come from Clinton Massachusetts where Clinton yeah no I'm sorry and uh come on supposed to beable it is what's a beautiful ride up here I ride my bike I actually lost here uh I riding my bike a couple summers ago I started in lunenberg and I was listening to my headphones off of my phone and looking at GPS and didn't realize how much power was getting I supposed to come here and turn around and go back up that's another story doing better so I would say the state rep in the Clinton area for 26 years um I became associated with a law firm in 2018 became a partner in 2020 uh and then did go to the bench uh the district court bench for a while but uh I looking for me to come back because I I put so much into developing this case uh and uh it's almost like family business my dad was the superintendent of water department in Clinton for 40 years uh and uh when I was in the legislature water quality and the water treatment the Watershed of the legislature uh of the district was high than my always high my agenda I was proud to get to know Jason at that time and I spend some time with a legislature uh his boss but so I went back to the firm and a little bit of background on this lawsuit I can Buzz through these um these slides shortly but Pas started coming on the national agenda 1990s early 2000s if you ever saw a movie called Dark Waters uh with the actor Mark Buffalo he plays an attorney by the name of Rob balot and we work with Rob balot he's an actual guy he's based in Southern Ohio he's with a different firm we do a lot of work because of the attention brought to this and if you Google it the you'll see it's called both the everywhere chemical and the forever chemical and it is probably in the veneer on this table probably in the dry cleaning on this sport jacket uh maybe what makes our glasses uh it's in women's makeup it is in M Donald's wrappers it's in photographic equipment and it is every place in the early 2000s 2010s because of concern municipalities around the country uh beginning either through State action being mandated by State Environmental and keep an eye on the time uh environmental uh regulations or on their own decided to start testing and um started bringing lawsuits against the 18 makers that number is important because if it's in your water and it is in your water it can't came from one of these 18 makers um in 2018 the federal district the federal Judiciary decided to consolidate all of these cases in the federal district court down in Charleston South Carolina from all around the country at that time my partner Paul napi was appointed chair of the plaintiff executive committee co-chair of the plaintiff executive committee in large multi-district litigation or class action cases like this to manage the case the judge in charge will appoint one or two or three lawyers on the plaintiff's side Utility side and one or two or three lawyers on the defendant side to keep the case on track Paul nap has been one of those and has led the negotiations as well as the preparation for litigation up to now um and and that's where we sit today um the case is ripe for trial however within the last uh year here um one of the makers look to see kid fenwall to see G their fire extinguishers in here kitty kitty declared bankruptcy yeah Dupont came to the table last June uh and offered $1.85 billion in a settlement 1.85 billion 1.85 billion okay 3M came to the table and and and in that figure the 1.85 billion has been approved by the court 3M came to the table and offered uh 12 10.5 to 12.5 billion settlement and the scale there and that's been approv by the court and the scale there is going to be based on the number of utilities that make a claim and we fully project that it will scale all the way up to 12.5 billion those two have been approved by Court in the last several weeks Tio fire products has come to the table and offered a settlement and has been agreed to by the plaintiffs of$ 375 uh $750 million and just last week BASF Corporation has come to the table and offered a settlement of 317.50 million uh both of those are awaiting the Court's approval um and we have no reason to think that the judge won't approve those so um the trust fund is approaching $15 billion there are still 13 that we are negotiating with that we are hoping to come to some type of settlement but still at the same time preparing for trial and Paul napi has been in the environmental law business for 30 years as our firm has and has led trials against uh mtbe jce um he's represented at the time of 911 The Firm was in y Manhattan he's on the trust of the of the 911 survivors trust he's on board um he's L litigation Flint Michigan so this is something I say that not in way of bragging but it's something uh that our firm is very experienced at we're hoping that we can uh resolve the rest of the litigation arrest of the of the um um defendants with some type of settlement that we can bring to our clients and to our potential clients and the process would be um Gathering if you decided to come on board decid to retain us we would gather the appropriate documents your detex between 2012 and 20 2013 and 2022 um and the uh flow of your various U water sources in the town of dun um what that means is the the um the um settlement will be is is Formula based as opposed to damages based um you your detex although two come are you aware that a year ago uh the EPA promulgated um a new maximum contaminant level of four parts per TR and then that became mandatory just a month ago yeah you come close on two of your your sources to that the good thing about how we've negotiated the settlement is the fact that you have detex makes you you do not have to be in excess of the four parts per trillion uh or the 20 part current Mass figure 20 parts per trillion so you qualify that's a good thing um the and and then the formula is based as I said it's not based on your remediation costs because Massachusetts has been ahead of the curve in in some ways it's probably been a pain to you mandating testing since 2018 the good thing about that is it's getting you will get you to phase one which means checks will if if we get all the Ducks lined up on your behalf uh checks will be cut potentially as soon as this year W um and can be used however you're bored however you see see appropriate um if it if PS remediation or some other type of infrastructure the um the Nu of what I I really like to get to tonight on your behalf is there are two deadlines coming up uh the first one is June 17th which is is the deadline to file on your behalf for the DuPont the lower of the two first two and then June 30th for actually I say June 30th because have been pushing F it's actually July 6 for uh 3m. we are pushing the court to allow to extend the the DuPont deadline to 3M to July 6 this as well and we keep even the loop so there is a little bit of a time uh constraint here um and what the initial things we would need from your uh your your your water department your DPW would be those figures that I mentioned uh and then any any um that's thank I should do that myself that's very kind um and uh so we have an updated this D because BASF literally just came out last Thursday um the court these are the court approval dates and the typo will keep it but that'll be further later in the year maybe later in the summer and BASF certainly um so those are the dates the court approved it and then to that step settlement date on 3M has been extended to July 6 uh in the DuPont days we move back to June 177 um so that's what right now that's what we have to look at um do you have any like I said I can Buzz through those those slides if need be but I I think I give you the Crux of board might need to be how many towns are you represent how many signed up this Massachusetts over 100 in this area and I'm proud of that because you other firms will come in their National firms we're a national firm but I'm here and I and I feel I'm a partner at the table with the rest of my partners and I feel un local but we scale up very quickly and Paul anapoli is in the room and we've been over 100 in Massachusetts in this area AC and this is just a quick ticking off while I'm sitting over there I should have brought and I can I can send Jason list Littleton Westford chelsford two of the three in JPS for the city of L city of lemonster peil Townson gr's not involved gr's using a a a different firm based out of California but they are pursuing claim yes yes so I have a couple questions yes first of all I think your fee agreement or your contingent Fe agreement is out for review with Town Council here are each of those manufacturers individually defendants in that case yes they are okay you know this thing because I've been following it all right and we became aware of it our time became aware of it in 2018 um was it 28 I don't know was it was a few years ago um and our water system is uh traced to nondetect right and and I'm going to tell you I don't we we you can whatever you need for records please Loop those through Jason so that he can get you documentation that you need I I'm a little fuzzy here because we didn't start this thing came to our table here from the school district with contaminated water from firefighting foam that was used all right and so but the but to be clear the Two Towns own the School District all right and so I don't know how we're going to work to make the school district cool because at this point they're paying the bill for the bottle of water the testing um all those uh point of use poet systems right point right there's a bunch of those on on streets near the high school that are IND Dunstable and so we're going to have to have some discussion as to how with two law firms in two different towns in the same issue and the school district has a third law firm unless they're using my I don't know somehow we're going to have to have some educated discussion with all the parties to sure we come to a common understanding of how we're going to represent this legally the costs from the school being pushed down to the Two Towns we own it down every every Buck they spend comes from the towns but but but to be clear the project to mitigate the pest at the school y the school is nothing to do with right that's a that's a town project in between br and D so we took them out of the equation because it's water infrastructure work in our streets and you know that's more better handled by the municipality rather than the school district so where managing and funding the project separate from the schools so they they are not a a third party on that we're we're paying for that outright and we have a we have a smaller portion of that than gr because they they're larger portion of the school district but um we still have for the first phase 1 Point almost $1.9 million commitment so there there is a provision in the settlement for for supplemental payments for Extraordinary costs um I I'm not going to sit here and guarantee that we could put that in you but we certainly fight for uh and those those requests are due later in the summer um and uh the so that's that's something i' want to research I I did reach out not realizing firm I did did reach out to uh to the superintendent's office but nothing's happened um but for anything that's pushed on to you we can make an argument that it should be reimbursed what's the intention of the funds is it to go to homeowners or is it to go just to the the general fund of the town it's it's up to you it's goes to oh we just can't take this money put in the bank and go buy a truck there there's no will it be because we're receiving just as an example we've we're receiving OB and with that there's you can use that money for a very narrow specific purpose in this case you're saying there the parameters don't you we can take the money and use it as we see fit the board sees fit well it would be put it into well right because we had to go for an a debt exclusion override so we would just we would not have to then utilize that so that we could use money for this to then offset it offset balance balancing a budget potentially so that would that would in impact the residents by not having to pay more right and also have like a you know like I know the school district is has they're the ones who get contacted in the event that another homeowner realizes that they may be part of the expanding plume okay so then perhaps we take that the town takes that onus away from the schools I think there's been some frustration at times with the with the level of service there um and maybe it's our water board that does that I just this is me ad living here just an idea but like maybe that's a different way to have that bucket of money excess money to help a homeowner who all of a sudden realizes they have pet to tie in to tie it was stated though with the agreement that anybody that did have that problem would not have to pay to tie in true oh that agre that AG has a has a it closes at some point the window of it closes when the so the time the tiin permit fees the home owners will not be charged if they are part of that Co but they will have to pay water rates now when not so there's a financial unpa and that's not really in Hank's world but just picking out loud we've had and again C policies I I will say we' got two towns that are clients that have public who select boards have publicly articulated something like that that they would use the funds to help well owners and others who either to tie them into the system mitigate in some other way I mean you could use them to um I've already talked to a couple residents who are considering the cost benefit oration tie should we tie into the water system or should we invest in an on-site filtration permanent on-site filtration system yeah and you know what makes the most sense for for me and you know if we were to benefit from this there's a scenario where you could consider offsetting the cost of an on-site filtration system for res which is can be relatively hostly so yeah yeah I mean it's truly we we we understand most of the source and pretty confident 99.9% sure where it came from so it's really on the shoulders of these boards and things like that to come up with a plan for those that get impacted by it over time and if there's a settlement opportunity we ought to help those people that's sort of the charge of yeah being the steward of a talent so yeah so this is being in it's in review of Our Town Council now it's being reviewed now um and it says very clearly here how if there is no recovery then we don't owe you anything we assume all costs we have up to this point very significant costs um we lay out because as Town Council will tell you we've got to give you under the rules the board of our overse is a specific figure of what we're looking for up front because that's the standard figure though however um in the uh with I added the language or whatever the court sets whichever is less in the dupon in the 3M settlement the court has set 16% okay um and uh and that's what the court said so what court is this the Federal District Court of Charleston South Carolina okay judge G so it's still 25% [Music] or two time and they haven't taken any action on the other two7 the che so it could be lower what happens it's just this a side question so I mean you know we kind of went through this similarly with John's Mansville and his bestos right what happens if those guys B bankruptcy what happens to that so in the case of kitty benen my partner skullnick is on the bankruptcy Review Committee and it's always possible um I think uh where they their secured creditors will get paid first and this because they they declared bankruptcy before any type of settlement will be you know plaintiffs here will be down down the line it could happen but I mean you're talking about I 3M is seventh largest corporation in the world um it's unlikely with them or the rest uh but I'm not talking about this stuff being Coast to Coast it's it's not just isolated to New England or the Northeast right it's so California this up is everywhere and in an order of magnitude it's like John Manville with this besto right it's just huge what I would stress here is that although there are 80,000 Water Utilities in the country only so far only about two c000 have indicated that they're going to make claims into these funds and we okay our okay well that's a good thing so it's not like this 15 million is going to be spread among all 80,000 all 80,000 and it's not to say you know I'm not the only this is public this is Public Utilities across the country are seeing it and they're probably scaring into higher lock room left and right I know I've been get a lot of calls um but at this stage there's the formula which once we we get your preliminary data we give you a ballpark of what you be looking at um we have on our website on your on your law firm's website yeah okay that we can pop it into it so they'll it'll be significant and I'm not well right now if you maintain where you're at there's not going to be any main where you to um to do any remediation if if the maximum contaminant level if any new legislation comes along and drops lower which we don't another thing my perm brings to the uh we like to think we bring to the table about many things is that we maintain a full-time lobbying footprint in DC keeping an eye on what Congress does what the EP EPA does and although we're hearing different things about Wastewater and landfills we're not hearing anything about any lowering of that four parts Peril maximum container so we estimate that the current monies will last until 2030 meaning your initial um award based on a formula and then uh utilities that would need to come back for the supplemental payments possibly for your contribution to the original School District we would argue for that yeah um and that's typically where utilities um had taken water uh sources offline and then had to by uh or or buy from another city or another utility uh or they've already started remediation Litton is is well into agation set yeah so um one last question is um does this eliminate the town's ability to participate in any other future nonpast related litigation that comes up because ABC was found in the water something so that effect like just want to make sure we're it seems specific for p yeah spe specific to this okay all right just want to make sure it doesn't you know if they find out that Dupont was pumping something else into it and it's like all right we can link it back to DuPont or Dow whoever you know like we don't want us to get toasted by not being strictly strictly P fast now do you how do you deal with your waste water we don't have waste water okay so it's just okay it's all septic it's all septic and any open or close LOLs I'm sorry what we one cl track service that ships it out and uh so and again not to alarm you um we do anticipate that at some point all closed landfills in the country are going to start being tested uh yeah okay and there I think we have three Wells there all right so uh we're quietly speaking to the offense about a separated part um uh s to that that's going to be down the line but those convers they're very very silos in this litigation and I know I'm taking a lot of your time um you got we have time water eight minutes water star with water and wastewater landfills airports and then there is a um separate it's it's under the umbrella of the same case but it's it's moving along separate track for personal injury firefighters and Veterans Pi it up during their service so those conversation going and again you know since I I'm here to talk a bit about my term they're being L by I don'ts I I I I'm I'm going to have a whole bunch of them here right I'm just my mind's going 100 miles an hour but my biggest concern you we we have your Eng engagement letter your fee agreement right we haven't signed that CU s for review now I'm heing town of gron which is a partner with us and they've they've apparently gone off and hired another law firm and so my one of my concerns is how do we provide indemnification for the school district I don't know the answer to that just yet but if someone jumps out of the closet five years from now and sues the school district which is where the contamination occurred right how do we indemnify the GR to the school district from litigation I don't know the answer to that I'm not an attorney but I'd certainly rais the question to be sure that we understand that no one can sue the school district because we own the school district and the and so right now they've got $100,000 in their fy2 budget to pay for a bottle water and these poet systems and so that money is coming from the two towns in in a split right it's like 7030 something like that right and they've already incurred several $100,000 in engineering fees and testing fees because it's D get involved and some of those Wells are so far off the charge can't believe it right and so there's a significant amount of money that's already been expensed by the school district and they've taken it out of what's they know as the end funds and paid those bills I want that money back into the school district or I like to at least think that we could recover that money but I'm going to start I'm going to ask the question of Bron and everybody else is how the school district gets indemnified from future litigation if in fact that is an issue I don't I don't I don't know I I I don't know I'm gonna give you very very general answer to that number one because I'm not your attorney yet right um and two I'll start one I become your attorney I'm happy to sit school's attorney br's attorney with your local councel to Noodle that problem out my generic response to that because that question has been asked in other contexts is and it's one of the reasons we're not s suing say the Department of Defense of the US Air Force out in you Western M face they didn't the school didn't know about the p f and what from the story you're telling me and from what I researched after you know talked to Jason and I have a bit of knowledge of this is is when they called out they started taking their mitigation efforts and so that's a good thing um and that's been asked around the country it if we were to go to trial one of the reason these settlements are coming in is our evidence that we produced a trial is indicating that these companies knew since the late 1950s of the illness causing imp of their products we didn't tell anybody about it it's pretty daming basically yeah it's about right it's like the lead and the water and FL that of somebody wanted you up to school again this is being very generous being very clear this is not legal advice it's been record my gut response to that is the offended in that case of someone who feels they were injured by the water over there is are these 18 defendants and nobody's giv your participating this is not you know individuals who can still come out and say I've got thyroid cancerul cancer yeah was a woman had a birth injury of my child you know various things yeah I don't I mean that's going to be an issue that's going to would need I mean I I well you wouldn't want to prevent those individuals from you don't but we want to we want to know that that we've got indemnification that they can't I mean there's only so much money in the PO with this thing and we need to indemnify those it's like pcbs I've got guys that I work with that have still claims against General Electric but pcbs and they've never been paid and so and so I I know I'm getting off track here a little bit but we're going to have to do a little bit of late work here to be sure that Groton and dunable are united on the front to indemnify the school district that's my big well as I say I'm not sure Ron's using it they're using I they're out of California I think I know the firm but Morgan and [Music] Morgan I guess the point I'll I'll make is UN all right councelor thank you your honor I guess huh what what district courot were you oner that was a that was that was an honor and a fantastic job I really enjoyed it but I had invested so much in building this case yeah um it it really felt like I I should come back and see if the it's cool all right well great thank you very much thanks yeah absolutely to go through this but is discussion is this is this online is it yeah so people want to kind of go through that available so we would likely owe this firm an answer on the next week or so right it's the 30th 1 meeting if hopefully although this week if the Court's going to extend it to ju July 6 um better say that's sorry we've got 400 people working on we that your paperwork in pretty quick but we we still need to get work right thank you so much for thank you very much appreciate the discussion abut all the best want to sit for that would you to many of those right so hang on before we leave this all right and I know we got a bunch of things going I want to get together and have them here or we go there however we do this we got to get together here with with Bron and the school district and make sure that we I don't want to have lawyers all over the place we want to just get to a point where we're both using the same law firm and they're using Baron and Bud yeah I mean the lawyers are all they're all lining up with the MS open really be I mean we I mean the same thing yeah it's all the same it but I figure you want someone who is accessible meaning somewhat local and who is experienced in the area and have 100 communities yeah they PR invested in the case so that's that was the reason I mean I I did reach out to others um they were the most responsive does the district have their inter their attorney Ms representing the district oh no they they they're not doing this work I don't I don't know who's representing the district I bet no one I bet they Shi it to the tax just like the water well we did that we did that we made that decision we took it away from them because we just didn't need them involved we didn't need the district involved in it but in this particular case they the district could become a defendant that's just going to fall back on us well it would be up to Our Town Council Hank's firm and the town of grm to come up with a letter that indemnifies just like the fire department gets indemnified that from their usage of the foam back in the day that's what would end up happening Andor you could still allow a resident to soup their own they should they they've been robed that's what should happen so we'll have the opportunity to go through this with our Town Council to review anding question it's in their hands it's in their hands we'll bring it up at our next meeting um we don't have Corum yet for advisory so I guess we do have the municipal electrical electricity aggregation consultant here okay contract in front of I don't know if there's a way you could yeah top so get moving so um number 10 yes so as you know town meeting was the first step in this process um which we were fortunate to get approval for and so now the next step is to develop an actual plan and in order to do that we need someone that knows how to do that so um and that's not me so um so Paul's here um you have a contract um a draft cont contract in front of you um Town Council has in fact reviewed this contract and um we have come to agreement with um some slight um changes to the contract language and um so now we're hoping the board will consider this so that um the work can begin but I don't know if all has anything to add can you uh introduce yourself so my name is Paul grummer I'm working fir with m power choice we're an electricity aggregation consulting company we work with 41 cities and towns across Massachusetts um nearby here we' worked with chelsford for many years we work with peo which is in the stage just about to launch their program um but in the coming months and then we also work with other larger communities with wer Cambridge Newton we also work with a bunch of smaller communities as well um as Jay said all the cities and towns that have programs like this hire a from like mine to help you through the process so we develop the plan we help you get the regulatory approvals which are required and then we help use electricity supplier for the program and then we want do public education for the program once it's ready to get to get going and so it this was the agreement to go forward and do all of that work and still up to the point we are still not obligated to okay correct plan so you put my understanding well why are you talk why am I talking no you're exactly correct say you know what I'll say you're exactly correct you're not obligated so we would develop the plan for you get the state approvals um then you'll go out to bid for a supply and if you like the bids you get you'll sign a contract and then the program goes forward if you don't like the bids you get you won't sign a contract and you can try again later or decide you don't want to do it um we do all the all the work up to that point with no Fe all and then if the town does sign contract and launch the program we get paid a broker fee out of the electricity contract so we would get paid going forward we don't the town doesn't pay us anything and we don't get paid for the preliminary work so I read through this and I I can give it a 10,000 foot view right um I I I kind of have for lack of better expression um uh fear and my fear is that and I didn't understand this here I was heavily involved with Enron okay and the deal was people paid Enron and Enron was supposed to pay the transmission distribution all and they didn't do any of that how does this work so um yes so the the Massachusetts Market is structured anyway um there are two parts to electricity as you probably notice what's called delivery and one's called Supply delivery which is the pulse the wires reading your meter taking sending your bills stuff like that the utility does no matter what there's no choice about that the supply part there's competition for you can the utility will do that Poli National does it you could have a town program and 180 cities and towns have programs like this now or you can hire an individual electric company and Ron doesn't do it anymore but there are a bunch of others who do um most of the towns you're number one your electricity is always there this doesn't affect the literal supply of your electricity more of a contractual paperwork Arrangement so National Grid and there's a nonprofit administrator of the electric grid they make sure electricity comes to your house no matter what um with a program like this what happens to change is you pay a different price for the electricity Supply part of your bill The Firm the town hires is responsible for making sure enough electricity is put on to the grid so that it matches up in the end okay worst case they fail to do that and hasn't ever happened but if they fail to do it they had to post a bond and everything else with the independent system operator and who will collect on that Bond if the if the company doesn't deliver but it's a financial problem it's not a physical problem it's not electricity it's not and it's several years away because it takes a while for this aggregation to grow so I want to go back to my original question how do we Safeguard against the Enron Fiasco and and I know that was cuz I went through it and you know I'm going to sign on to this as a homeowner I live in the town and we and we're going to get a bill and we're a National Grid we are a National Grid right and is National Grid going to do the billing and collect the money okay I got that's fine and you can opt out of who supplies it right like so like I know on my house alexand way it's not like they're we're getting our power from not it's being supplied from not National Grid but delivered by national grip so and it saved like we were at 35 cents per kilow hour down to like 14 and it was like an 18mon contract and obviously there's a huge delt at the bill so this is just an opportunity for folks to get informed get educated and and see if it works with Paul's group to I have a supplier as wellar and those options are still available continue to do those be in the to yeah motion so I think we should go forward with this and see you have questions kind last yeah yes so I believe and I have to double check but I think the discount program would not Bea in this we talking so you would want to rather than you be person you can opt out of this to maintain what you currently have if it works better for you that way yeah just like the trash service so like we offer a town trash but you could stay with you know waste your own private hauler but the town trash option might be [Music] cheap not so good yeah okay all right is there a motion any other questions no good okay in accordance with the 2024 annual town meeting approval of Article 19 mpal electri electricity aggregation in pursuant M General Law chapter 164 section 134 we move to approve a consultant agreement for the development and management of the town's Municipal aggregation program with mass power Choice LLC and authorize the chair to sign the agreement on behalf of the board second all in favor I thank you all in favor yeah we are by thank you very much well thank you for coming it was great talking with you and we hope that we have great success with this and and it continues for many many years and everybody's on board with it that would be the best we could have right absolutely so thanks for coming we appreciate it pleasure okay so we can jump back to the year and transfers we have a new quum The Advisory Board is here with a Corum um have you call your meeting to order welcome back Leo made it [Laughter] sucker all right so we have seven 7 $2,869 77 yeah for a hand seven transfer I think it's whatever yeah that in front of us yeah so let's that we have um some transfers that needed to be done just to close out some of the the things that are owed still one is for a temporary loan interest for 10,800 3929 um snow and ice for $761 64 the treasurer for $4,990 and accounting for $1 4,178 184 Cent um there's some detail in terms of what those so I can go through those quickly so the temporary loan it just the account was just underfunded and because of the increase in rates this needs to be addressed snow and ice the amount is being covered within the snow and ice budget it's being transferred from expenses to salary to cover snow removal wages um the treasurer this transfer is needed to cover a payment to Vadar for the cost of migrating the treasure collector's office to Vadar from point software um making the transition the town negotiated a payment plan with Vadar rather than paying the full upfront cost should be the ongoing obligation for the next 5 years it's being covered within the treasur collector's budget transferring funds from salary to expenses and you accounting uh this transfer is needed to an adjustment allocating the assistant Town accountant salary to properly reflect the work the position performs we're now allocating the position salary as follows 9 and a half hours per week as assessors n and a half hours per week in the water uh department and 18 hours per week in the accounting um transfer costs are as follows 22778 84 from accounting expenses 5,800 Assessor's wages 5,600 water wages so all this is money that is within the budget there's no impact on people's taxes still within the budget has has The Advisory board approved these already the if I could say one thing about the temporary loan interest I I was initially it was initially thought that we needed this due to um interest rates and as I was doing um some research on these these transfers um what became apparent was that the transfer is necessary however we did not we we paid off the debt didn't charge a portion of the water um the the water debt for the tower um or the tank um we didn't charge a portion of that to the water Enterprise properly so the debt budget is funded properly we just need to properly allocate the costs okay so um in the most of this is just an accounting exercise for the for their debt um the town accountant wants to see this the interest a out of a different line than we typically have so moving forward we'll change it but right now this is more just an accounting exercise okay from the ENT a motion to transfer the amount of $1,839 29 uh the amount transferred from the health insurance and transfer to the temporary loan Insurance uh with a balance remaining of [Music] 15948 all those in favor okay great thank you but they do need to read each one we need to read each one we don't need to we do it all collectively 29877 usually advisory will approve each one individually and then we we just but the math works out to 29 869 77 so if we approve that that will cover all of these individually right correct I guess we should let advisory read the next couple more so they can formalize memorialize the process I like hear Dick's voice so it's [Music] fine I uh so Iain a motion to transfer the amount of $ 76164 from the snow Supply count to the snow REM overtime account being requested by the highway department for the remaining balance in the appropriate funds from transfer $ 13892 31 person all in favor moving on entertain a motion transfer the amount of $5,600 from the water clal wages to the accounting of wages to cover CH charge and hours per Department the balance remaining in appropriate inapproiate $664 [Music] motion to transfer the amount of $5,800 from the assessor clerical wages to the wages uh to cover uh charge in hours perment balance remaining appropriate from which transfer 956 motion second all those in [Music] favor then a motion to transfer the amount of $2,778 184 uh from the accounting annual to the accounting CL wages the balance remaining 2,226 cover [Music] and [Music] finally I would entertain motion to transfer the amount of $49 be transferred from the treasur salary to the treasuring the treasur contract not second all those in favor you so for ourn in accordance with Mass general laws chapter 44 Section 3 33b move to approve end of year fy2 budget transfers as excuse me FY 24 budget I said 24 FY 24 budget trans as presented totaling 29,8 6977 second second in favor I I I just have a quick question how much is left on our Reserve fund 11,000 around okay thank you thanks Advisory Board good you're welcome to stay unless there anything else to all of you here for the next few hours all right that was nice and short so um next up we have the annual reappointments we have a lengthy list here of annual appointments for the boards in con town that are including everything from the Ada coordinator to the aable housing committee assistant Town accountant clerks Economic Development Committee Council on Aging Conservation Commission CPC building inspector electrical inspector Emergency Man management gas and plumbing historic commission advisory land use committee master plan implementation committee and ncog police department yeah Recreation surve yeah I'm not going to just we annual appointments um I move to appoint Town officials boards and committees committee members as presented in the document entitled appointments staff committees boards and commissions and the document is dated May 28 of 2024 is there interjection s um I just have a question you second all in favor I all right so question for you guys there two committees that we red last year that didn't do anything so the governance committee and the Public Safety Committee so I wanted to know if we wanted to S them off yeah well we just voted them in didn't we I think we did I guess my question on Public Safety would be we have a firehouse that's had a tough go I don't know if now is the time to be abandoning that committee well I think that probably to answer that more directly I think that committee's charge was to look at a new building yeah I think all of the work that we've done up to this point to lack of a better ex Shore up the fire station has already been done yeah that just buys us time it does it does in terms of fixing the existing building which I think is where your question is that you know he's get all that well under control him and we hired a consultant right we this board hired a consultant to work with making sure the fire station would get us through the next few years and then the public safety building committee's charge was to you know build a new building and locate it and there's still a lot in fux with that and yeah I mean we can we can reappoint it it's you know still the feasibility of that fire station and continuing to put money into it it feels like a black hole right it's sort of what it is definitely that like I wonder you know could we maybe redefine the charge of that group we could I mean the group should be looking at both what it would take to to you know Shore up this existing building even more and other options for getting money and you know is that really the best place doing the pros and cons of of each so at least we have some sort of plan going forward rather than just we don't I mean yeah I don't I don't yeah for another we can table it can there's nothing pressing with the governance committing at this point either um so so for right now we'll leave them off but I want to I don't want to belabor this discussion tonight but maybe we should have this discussion on an agenda for our next meeting to talk about yeah what we got to do because it is it's a black hole to some extent the rest of the way is that we're just trying to preserve the Integrity of the building right now because we need place to stick to fire trugs yeah we just spent $30,000 10,000 10,000 bucks on basically Fring short yeah like bracing the roof so that it wasn't putting pressure on the walls because the walls were falling out so we've done that which stabilized the building at this point but there's other work as you know um through the the building assessment that was done that needs to be done if we're going to stay there right but we also don't want to throw all this money into a building that we're we're not going to stay in yeah so that's really the we got to figure out kind of short long term in whether or not it makes sense to right invest in that the current building or not yeah yeah yeah that'd be good discussion for us next time or meeting or two from now to catch up on that and then I think that um Jason I think there's a rather extensive list coming from the police department for all of the offices in other towns which is not part of this so police offices tsoro police gr police officers so from my understanding we don't have to appoint them anymore because of the [Music] I'm blanking the inter Municipal all right that's it okay last thing up is uh discussion regarding 41 L street the lp so we've gone back and forth a few times with um the on this and the board has made some recommendations and been presented back to the proponents of the project and I think um at least I still have some questions Sentiments of my fellow board members I interject or how how do you want to play this out jump in um I don't know if we want to have them speak or you can give your thoughts first and ha first before I dive into my diet or go to my diet um Jason what's the best did or did the group that's here did you guys plan to present or was just just a you're going to sit here and let us ask a couple questions and hear what we have to say what was your expectation yeah sure so we we came back with a couple of proposed changes for the Jess represen they to a couple of specific categories them and the reason why we requested and proposed changes first of all there was in in the boards uh feedback responses there a couple of ranges of projects different size unit counts propos as alternative of the project we have we proposed to modify that so that instead of having a binary one or other decision to make be something like a range that the developer build within that range get some flexibility to the developer and also to account for a situation where if something were to happen through the per process the unit count is not one or the other leading Us in kind of an awkward position where are we in compliance with the agreement are we out compliance with it so if it falls into that range that's something that would be handled by post we modified the high Watermark of the proposed unit count to provide the ability for a additional story for the multi apartment that's just a proposal for the developer work into a conversation about the next significant change that we propos has to do with the affordability percentage and this unfortunately comes down to Dollars and cents question because our fiscal for that's been together by our affordable housing SCB has put us in a position that the project is really on the ra edge of profitability and Falls well above the the maximum profitability 4 project so we're really we're struggling to make it work and pencil out in the current market given the construction cost being what they are ling cost being what they are carrying cost for the for the project so we we're proposing to reduce the the affordability percentage to just the 25% that's required by Statute and to the extent the board still is interested in in discussing the question of rles ownership un we can get into that question but the 25% is is really what we feel it works for the project to make it pencil out and even nowen um the the next item is there were some revisions on the timing for the the hand off of the public garage building that we're proposing to renovate the reason why we supposed to have it happen later in the process is because part of the development of the site we intend to use that building and that's really our primary purpose for renovating the the damage for building in addition to handing it off to the town at the appropriate times the town has a public service building and as also to to avoid concerns about fora wage with respect to the Improvement to that building so what we're proposing to have happen is that we will do the work we will hand off the building at the appropriate time once the use of of the building is complete or if we can reach an agreement on the side with the town for a shared use of that building while the construction of the project is is taking place we're willing to work at the town on that to make sure that your needs and your use of the building are provided for as well as ours and also to to address theiling question I mentioned which again comes down to practical doll question obviously wage issue um the next item well this one we not proposed any revisions on this but I didn't want to highlight it the board had had added a clause providing for a 60 buffer zone to resources for no DW than that it will require a few modifications to the site plan but we looked at it something that we live with so we're not pushing back on that in any way just to clarify that the issue of BL is something to be reviewed by the Conservation Commission and so what what I proposed is language that said that there there's noing units within the 64 no bill unless it's approved by the conation to provide commission with the jurisdiction that they have on the we protection act to review that umart from that we we also requested some some Revis language on anding to connection fees for the proposed public infrastructure projectos and that would be consistent with the similar treatment for the thear building so we're requesting the connection for for the project itself would not beart from that there is just I would say some some housekeeping changes questions the yeah thank you so thank you for for that um I'm a little concerned about the I feel that may been a little misunderstanding or maybe you understood it and just don't agree that the option that we put back to you folks with the last reiteration was not just allowing you to build more units period it was to allow more units with the intent of those being affordable units if you weren't able to meet that 30% so I I'm not in support of just giving you a free range of adding more units for the sake of adding more units but the count goes up so if in the in the in the the realm they went up to 208 we would go from 156 at 39 that's 25% of that to 208 to 52 so again it's presented I hear your point but like again I as some but an affordable hat on I'm like we we need more affordable housing we don't well that that was the point of you made the proposal actually was increase it to 176 but have that Delta between the 156 and that all be affordable that was what was presented to them it was yeah and now it's up to 208 when there's concern that the number of 156 is already too much in several people's eyes the 156 right so increase [Music] it with with this with this particular you understand the affordable units are all sold a loss right net loss I understand okay so so to say okay let's increase let's increase it to whatever we pi every unit is a loss how do you come the loss through market rate units well that comes back to to Jesse's point about what pencil's math was and like I know I was one of my ideas was let's try to get more affordable housing out of it and again I'm not I'm not your project manager I can't tell you what it cost to add a fourth story to a building and how that pencils out using your words so my my idea was increase the affordable housing number and without drastically increasing the total count the unit of the total complex um and I I and I said this to Leah that night or that afterno I can't remember when it was like I I hear her point and you know my my biggest thought is let's increase affordable housing so I I don't mind 208 to be per perfectly honest with everyone here because we need more affordable housing but we need more housing in general like like talking sure but I mean down the street in gr they're putting a four-story building do I mean like these are be the safest buildings in town by a landslide that does not mean that there will never be a fire in sure but like you know let's again the focus is housing for the town and a project that is a winning project for the town that we generate some tax revenue because we're desperately in need of money for a town that's going to collapse financially we have no housing we literally two houses on the market right now and we have people who are interested in getting out of their single family homes and moving into something that's more affordable that has access points to the town and our charge as a select board as the executive members of this town was to give every group the opportunity to speak up on this project and they did and 156 was too many sure so you're coming back with 208 that doesn't compute to me but then it's up to the three of us to make that call like that's the decision we're going to have to live with as we decide what we feel is going to help the residents of this town in Middle six County like would well there are other things to consider as well and you know and there was a lot of input brought in by other boards and public input and there was not a significant amount of support for that so to turn around and now come back and say well you you you don't like three story buildings well hey you know what let's let them do four so then let increase the number but then would you take the 156 because that that's the original proposal I understand I mean look pretty good yeah interesting yeah I don't love the 156 no I don't I'm not not signing on to the 208 I just don't think that's that's what's best for the town I think what would make me happy more so is increasing the percentage of the 156 don't I understand but this is a friendly project we're supposed to be working together and for things that are going to help us not just them yeah but they their ISS and remind you this was presented to us we did not solicit this but so the friendliness comes from paring words but like the garage the Shar usage the senior center that has some access to Residence the the friendliness is beyond that I think we're we know and I've said this the develop we said this meetings we're in a rock this is not a surprise to anyone like this is a tough call so I'll R you know these guys have been to several meetings with us right and I'm I'm you know my my heart in my mind says to me that look that we this this is how I see this all right and if I'm wrong call me out on it all right this town is on the verge of financial disaster it is okay can't pass an override okay and and and the lieutenant governor sat right in this chair and and she did she did she said your only way out of this is to grow but let's be honest about that when we look around the town where else are we going to grow other than single family houses here and there right personally I love the concept that we have of capturing some of these properties to you know will not you know agriculturally so that they're not um built over all right I I like that I look at the Hardy Street um High Street property and some of these others it's being it's it's a great idea but in order to have that at some point we've got to have a counter to that to develop revenue and and you know what this is going to this project does a lot of things for us it just does if you're not on the Water System you should get on it and experience some of that I've got I've had people at at the town library last week voting that were talking to me about what the hell will be doing with the water rates I mean some of these people have $4 or $5,000 water bills okay so the pro and and and and and just to add to that all right and and you can kind of get where I'm going with this all right these two guys their families are well rooted in this community right I I personally do not believe that they're going to come in here do a lousy job and line their pockets with cash and bail on I don't believe that because if that project is not successful financially and not successful to the town overall their names are on it and we're going to put a stone out in front of that reminding everybody that this is this is who built this place right I find that I find it hard to believe I find it hard to believe that if we brought these two guys in six or eight months and said to them we need to put something here X Y and Z that they would decline that I need housing however my name is also bacon and you can run all over this town and find houses that Bacons have built so there you go you know we're we're a construction family so you know most of the most of the houses that and you know there's a couple of other real estate deals floating around some of these houses are at $ 1.9 and $2.2 million I got to tell you y y you know what I I would be scratching my head at how I'm going to pay for a $2 million house even 20 years ago when I was 40 right so I don't know I I you know I'm I'm looking at this from the sheer dollar standpoint it's going to inject new revenues into the town yeah I get the fact that we don't have that well defined it's either going to be a million dollars in property taxes or it's going to be 600,000 but it's going to be some number of significance there is no look around the town there is no other project that's going to get built that's going to introduce that cash into the town over the next several years right and and from that standpoint it's either going to be a yes or a no and and and and I want to listen to everybody but I did I I caught it at the library at the vote yet last week about this project and the water bills and how the town's going to get out of this financial pickle that we're in we just all we did with this last override vote is just delay something that's really bad and if we don't I I'm looking at this from a corporate business perspective s I I I understand I I always listen to Leah all the years and I have been on the board together I always listen to what she has to say and I I get it I understand it this one's a little bit different because I'm looking at this thing going I we we we've had emptying meetings on this I can't tell you how many emails have gone back and forth I've lost track of it um and I'm just looking at this as a dollar instance this that project is not shovel already there's a significant amount of engineering work you know uh structural uh civil all that stuff's got to get done and at the end of the day these guys are financially on the hook for that project and they got to either make a buck at it or they don't and you know they they've come to us with this petition and this request and I I you know I I I my heart and my mind says to me am not crazy about a four-story building the Project's off to the side you're probably really not going to see much of it if unless you gawk um I I think it's going to be a good looking project um we you know just as a frame of reference we did have a developer come through on the mud project that was not successful and one of the issues and Carol you're going to know this well is the quality of what he was doing all right these guys are going to live and die if that project is not well received by the town when the buildings are paint pain and the windows are clean the curtains are in if it's not too much hot air [Music] on I needed that the sign heard of running un to that's not good just going to take a minute here folks before we get this sorted out [Applause] may I have your attentions [Music] yep have told you that does Jason need help no I think they deal with this all time was happening one other night I was here was that volunteer appreciation the lights were flashing that night oh yeah yeah usually the alarm doesn't go it beeps down there I don't think anyone's no meetings no 6: cooking things up yeah [Music] we're still on camera live I'm [Music] sure responsible all are they yeah good for them how often does this happen Sue uh ever oh I don't believe you yeah but not not not like [Music] this see how long it takes our P fighter oh they were on the way [Music] what [Music] was it little EXC little excitement well the alarm's not ringing so we can Jason gets back here see if Ron can remember exactly where you were Ron yeah where were you no pressure so I guess we're gonna resume things here I mean I I I mean I just I I kind of said what I wanted to say about it um okay it's may be more speechmaking I've gone through the LDA I know there's um there's still an issue with signing the LDA because Town Council has not gotten back to a shed he supposed to he hasn't done that yet um and I I I I I really don't know what else to say I think I've summed it up as elegantly as I could I get my uh short retort to you is that I'm not opposed to this project and that's I don't know if that's in insinuating that I am but I'm not opposed to the project I don't I'm not in support of increasing the units um the one other thing I know we have talked about this before but it's not memorialized in this LDA and this that is the project that all units will be age restricted it just says the project it doesn't specifically say so a project at 55 and Order project only requires that 80% be age restricted but it doesn't clarify that 100% of the units will be AG [Music] rest probably yes yeah PA so