##VIDEO ID:xrkwTETyqVo## bethl city council for September 9th 2024 I'd ask you to say the Pledge of Allegiance with USAG the United States of America the for it stands one nation God indivisible andice for all make a motion to adopt tonight's agenda second a motion is made and seconded to adopt our agenda all in favor say I I opposed none heard okay our first order of business is adoption of 2025 preliminary Levy and budget and we have our deputies City administrator and finance director not Mr aaronb as it says on the sign but Mr Mike D thank you Mr Mayor I'll just I'll just introduce this um okay on June 13th the city finance committee met with City staff to review and discuss the 2025 Budget on July 22nd 2024 City staff Andor contracted Personnel from Administration Finance Community Development fire police and Public Works departments presented their budget proposals to the entire Council based on the uh inputs from the finance committee department heads and City councils the preliminary budget was prepared for review tonight and uh and to consider an approval the 2025 general fund expenditure budget uh is projected to increase by 3% or roughly $195,300 uh the expenditure increase would then result in a corresponding Levy increase of 3.1% um to balance the 225 budget um there are a couple of cost drivers that um that we'll note here this evening first and foremost is salary and benefits per Union contracts we're looking a 3.5% Cola increase for nine Union and 13 non-union members and 35 paid on call Firefighters for the Union contract increase of uh to $1,475 per month cafeteria contribution it says in here a 50% increase in mayor and Council salaries we dealt with that in the work session that will not be happening we'll keep those the same however that's built into this budget and um but there is a increase in the commission members that was discussed this evening that is also included in the in the budget uh overall salary and benefits are 129,000 increase over 2024 uh there's a law enforcement contract increase of 5% or $73,000 a City Assessor contract a 2% increase or $1,000 increase which was actually a very good um a very good bid by the county moving to the county we didn't know where that number was going to come in but it was a very small increase the city um attorney contract is a 0% increase Metro inet is a 4.7 or $4,000 increase I know there was some discussion as to um Metro inet and the benefit it brings and the amount of money we spend and I think just after the whole um I forget the name of the company BL screen what's that the blue screen crowd strike crowd strike thank you after the crowd strike situation um they really earned their keep in trying to get everyone's systems back online and that's kind of the benefit of of economies of scale yeah that was impressive yeah they um you know we were down a little bit you look at uh airports and that and I can't imagine the lawsuits that are coming out of that oh yeah at any rate the audit uh contract we had a $2,000 increase on that elections is a $177,000 decrease um uh we had some transfers in there to the equipment uh replacement fund of $16,000 Street Capital fund of $50,000 increase we talked a little bit about $50,000 being kind of steps moving forward uh and uh you really don't want to get behind on Street Maintenance at all because it waits for no one so that um every year we are scheduling to increase that by 50 ,000 a year uh hopefully inflation will come down a little bit and um and of course that money doesn't get spent unless it's needed uh Capital Park Capital fund a $10,000 increase there and um currently we have a uh general fund unassigned uh balance in the general fund of 40% of next year's budget and the city ended 2023 with a general fund balance of $ 4,762 192 and and um I don't know if there's any other points perhaps Mr jorski would like to make some points on this but I think um you have a pretty solid Budget moving forward uh I think compared to other communities that are out there it's always a comparison game of what other people are doing obviously I know the counties uh was staring down the barrel of a 25% increase yeah I know they're going to try and reduce that I you think I've lived there I've lived there for 18 years or 14 years rather and uh C is tough so um best of luck to them and hopefully that's not the case other communities are in the S to 10% increase some are a little bit higher in some instances um and uh and the majority of which interesting enough is roads anytime a community Gets behind in roads you're seeing double digit Levy increases to try and catch up so keeping on top of that is um which is a big issue for us because I think was Tim brought to our attention back in 2022 is East bethl the eighth largest city geographically in Minnesota or seventh or sixth it's Fifth Fifth we're a large city geographically about I've seen 46 square miles and 48 square miles I don't know which is accurate but most cities are 36 yeah it's large so we have more road miles than uh some other places so you're right you have to stay on top of it or go hey wire on you quick I have one question on this first of all it's extremely well laid out like everything you do Mike um are we are we sure to get that 50k State Police Aid are we sure we're going to get that for the to you know that $50,000 to offset part of the increase in the sheriff's department the short answer to that is no but uh historically how that has worked is essentially we pay the full price for your Police contract all the way through until the last quarter when that's actually realized at the county level and then they reduce our final quarterly payment by whatever that state aid is now again historically it's always came through but there is no guarantees when you're dealing with State funding but again historically that $50,000 has come in and then they reduce our final payment accordingly so okay I was hoping it was a for sure cuz I when I when I first looked at this I saw well that's another 3% increase until you factor in the 50th K and that would be 8% on top of 14% last year for the sheriff's department 22% increase in two years that's a lot even in inflationary times right it wasn't anywhere near 22% inflation that's for sure right but anything anyway it was very well laid out and um I'm sorry I wasn't coordinated with you we will have to do better on that as far as who has given the presentation but no problem very well laid out we work as a team so one or the other well apparently I didn't hold up my end of the team effort on that one uh okay so the first item and did you have anything further to say mike um just one more item to kind of touch on is there's two other leving authorities within the city it's your Eda and your H the main point on this is that we are keeping our levies the same amount as they were in 202 24 so the Eda Levy is proposed to remain at that $136,200 level so a 0% change and then the HRA Levy is proposed to remain at that same level of 77,000 for 2025 or a 0% change with that like you had mentioned we have four resolutions before you the first motion or the first resolution is to consider the approval of resolution 20258 which sets the final date or sets the date for the final budget and tax uh Lev hearing I have a I have a question first the safer Grant that's not taken into account with correct just because we yeah yeah Mr Mayor and Council we've applied for the safer Grant in the past we have not met the criteria to be awarded that although it doesn't give us reason which criteria Criterion are you referring to what I understand is it depends on crime rates and things of this nature and so when you're going up against cities with higher crime rates you you know you um generally don't score very well okay uh not to say that we shouldn't continue applying for that however um uh you know I I did hear a statistic uh from our County attorney that inoka county has witnessed a 40% increase in violent crime so um while that's not a great statistic that does help in terms of applying for these type of Grants so I can't remember and one thing to note with the safer Grant in that fire department position is we really view it as a budget neutral item so even if we were successful in getting the safer Grant we would think that it would fund that position in in its entirety for the first year again when it starts declining as the years go on that's when the budget impact would actually be uh be saw so right yeah so as you said the first resolution is to set the date for the levy and budget being final and you've proposed December 9th correct y anybody have an issue with December 99th being the date no that's fine someone like to make a motion to pass resolution 2024-the at December 9th I'll make a go ahead resolution to approve or motion to approve resolution 20 24-58 set final Levy and budget date of December 9th second motion made and second second any discussion if not those in favor say I I opposed none heard the uh next uh resolution before you is 2024 59 that sets the preliminary 2025 budget and Levy one thing to note on this again is that your preliminary Levy cannot be increased at the time of the final Levy it can only be decreased and have has there been any change in these numbers since the last time we saw them so we had our work session July 22nd and the only thing that was changed is we had the increase to Mayor and councel pay in there included in this budget now it sounds like the direction after tonight is to remove that so that'll work fine going into the December meeting when we remove that from the budget and then that'll be final at that so we'll have a little bit we have a little bit of wiggle room again it's not much because that 50% %c increase wasn't didn't amount to too much as far as a dollar amount so we understand okay so we're looking at resolution 2024-25 set the preliminary Levy and budget motions made do we have a second is that Mr Smith seconding okay motion made and seconded any discussion if not all in favor say I I opposed none heard and resolution 20246 yep so 22460 there's a little typo on my PowerPoint but that is your resolution to set the 2025 Eda levian budget and that's the Economic Development Authority correct make a motion to approve resolution 2024 D60 saying the preliminary 2025 Eda Levy and budget second motion is made and seconded any discussion yes I want to make sure that's staying the same correct that stays at the same amount that was 2024 yep any any other discussion or questions not all in favor say I I I opposed none heard and the final resolution then is resolution 202 24- 61 setting the preliminary 2025 HRA Levy and budget and again that is going to be at the same level as we had it in 2024 so keeping that flat for 2025 and I'll make a resolution to approve resolution 2024 61 setting the preliminary 2025 H Lan budget second okay motions made to approve resolution 2024 61 any discussion all in favor say I I opposed none heard that was easy huh yep see when you're all so well prepared you guys go go smoothly the next item on our agenda is the public forum and forgive me if I butcher your name okay Corey Jorgenson Jorgenson yeah I'm on the list but neighbor sure yeah please come up and state your name and thank you if you're comfortable with it your address look at that you got a name wow you're back up good evening hi I'm Mark Wagner I live at 2 3125 tayor Street okay just south of John Anderson Memorial Park just south of Cooper's Lake okay Cory is a neighbor who lives two Doors Down From Me Adam is a neighbor who lives across the street from me was also here and then Tom lives kitty corner across the street from me at the whole neighborhood here there's a few of us there's many more that would like to be here that we're out of town that we're unable to Sure forgive me I'm not good at speaking in you're doing great and this is the first time that I've been at a city council happy to have you thank you I wish I was here under better circumstances as many people here we all have families and children and loved ones in our neighborhood we have a group of people that are residing in a neighborhood that shouldn't be there numerous police calls I would is the a s County Sheriff here tonight it would be an NOA County an NOA I'm sorry NOA County Sheriff here no they they come at the second meeting each month Mr Wagner sorry Mr W can we have you speak into the microphone so it picks up no that's fine thanks thanks matam so we've in our neighborhood have called the police many times for a neighbor that lives in our neighborhood that is breaking the law many times the cops seem to be doing no job Justice to us and they are making us feel unsafe in our neighborhood so we felt coming here was our next step can you give us a for instance of the what the law breaking involved drug dealing oh um me and my dog have been attacked in my driveway while he was on a leash um by another dog or yes sir um if we go to city ordinance for instances they've got probably 30 cats I've counted 18 in one sitting they have dogs that are did you see Cats yes sir um oh you don't have to call in me sir it's a sign of respect just out of curiosity because I don't want you don't have to say the person's name here but Aon if you talk to him is that something we could uh this gentleman yes uh we' had we had three complaints come in between Friday and today that need to be investigated um we do have one report from the Sheriff's Office that I just got late this morning early this afternoon regarding an incident that happened at the location um I was gone on Friday I'm back today had to dig out a little bit but we will certainly be addressing this starting tomorrow I have didn't want the guy's name I have made a request from the sheriff's office for all of the previous incidents that have been reported from that address that were referenced in the report I got today as soon as we have all that information together we'll move forward is this a new neighbor somebody who moved in recently are they I've lived here since 2017 this gentleman has been there since the mid90s mid 99s yes sir and the behavior was always like this well before it was alcohol and now it's moved on to other things oh okay um I've had I could pull out the picture of his business card but I've had multiple detectives from other counties come to my door looking for people at the residence next door to me I say County knows this the Sheriff's Office knows this house and they've been caught stealing mail on video the cops have been called The Gentle that's a federal offense isn't it yes sir the gentleman that it happened to is here it's on video the dog incidents is on video on my ring door camera they have multiple tents in their back yard where people reside in they have more cars in their yard than you pull our parts the officers from Anoka County that were in my home told me every time they go there they can't pinpoint any stolen property which I find hard to believe but they've told me they've tried I've brought groceries home at night and been told by NOA County Sheriffs to drop my groceries and get in the house and lock my doors and I can't unload my vehicle with my groceries another gentleman here has been told similar stories from the inoka county sheriff's department as a neighborhood this neighborhood was always one that people want it to be in it's a great neighborhood we love it here that's why we live here we feel safe here it's a place we want to grow up and raise our children retire here everybody has their own story but now it's turning into an area where we're talking about moving and selling our homes because we don't feel safe in our community what are your what are your thoughts about this mat in terms of what next steps it sounds like we should have a sit down with the uh well with Derek Peters who the liaison for the Anoka County Sheriff's Department to East bethl is Lieutenant Peters we'll see him in the morning Mr Mary will'll discuss at the staff meeting level and you'll keep us surprised of yeah okay thank you so in my complaint I tried to come up with city council issues the amount of animals vehicles in the yard not being registered people living in tents people living in motor homes suspected drug dealing and it's a nuisance property is what you call it there's one person living in a van there's one person living in a car when I go and mow my lawn on Saturday morning I get people saying things that I cannot totally hear because I'm on a mower and it's Saturday morning at 89 in the morning and I'm cut my grass and I get grief from them oh you're waking them up huh yes sir we we don't know what to do and we came here to ask you guys for help we don't know what to do yeah we you guys are our last resort well so Mr Mayor good thing you came in yeah that's the only way we know is if somebody comes in and says something and we don't know where to turn and what to do so we're asking for help guidance we don't know the law like you guys do we don't know what to do and where to go you call the cops I would really like to know how many calls have been to that house in the last year well they got the numbers they well other people have asked for it and it's fallen on De years well that at least the city can has some leverage the county the county has a public data request procedure that has to be followed in order to get access to those records and I did that today after the third complaint came in they're not going to have it to me overnight however it usually takes a couple of days and if there are the amount of calls that were indicated on the report I saw today it may take them week or two however with the three complaints that came in today we can start addressing it through city code in some form uh doesn't mean we're going to get compliance immediately either sometimes as you know it takes years months longer so we're going to do what we can now that we've been alerted to this uh through the complaint process it's not going to get swept under the rug no sir thank you no there's no reason you should be put in that position I have a young daughter who comes home she's 14 she comes home from school I'm at work I don't get home for 2 hours after I had to get bring doorbell cameras because my son took my dog out and there's a gentleman standing for meet you away from our front door at 10:30 at night and I have a 2 and 1/2 acre yard my house is in the middle of the property he was standing there just staring at my front door so we got cameras because we don't feel safe in our neighborhood anymore that's kind of you have no trespassing signs no sir I'm just wondering because if you did he come on there then he can be Criminal Trespass if we've already called the cops numerous times and nothing's happened how does that make us feel like something is going to happen well because it's posted once your property is posted I used to teach us with the DNR but once your property is posted even if they tear down the sign it's posted for a year and then they can then they have something they can come back with and say you're you're trespassing on Memorial I was m in my yard and I looked out in the middle of my front yard and there was a gentleman standing there with the push mower flipped upside down stumbling around in a circle and when I approached him and I asked him if he was okay he couldn't even look at me or answer it and I told him he needed to get off my property and go on to his this is not a once in a life or a once in a while thing this is a daily occurrence in our neighborhood the cops I see them at least twice a day in our neighborhood patrolling if they're doing it that much how much am I not seeing it and how come it continues to happen yeah when you address it with a deputy ask him for his card they all Carry business cards so that you know who you're talking to if you would like I can give you the Share of the card with you from the other County that has been coming to my house to ask for it and take me a minute to pull it up on my phone but I have a picture and I don't want to waste everybody else Cory were you going to speak too Cory you're you're Cory who's on the Planning Commission right okay is it Tyler are you Tyler no I'm Mark Mark okay grab my card on the way out and get make sure we're that we're in touch Mr Mayor okay if we can just I just want to establish some expectation here there's a process that has to be followed and the um if it gets to a point of prosecution the courts expect that process to have been followed and it can take some time as as Aaron had indicated uh um so I I I don't want to give anyone the impression that overnight this is going to be fixed um but once the process is started we can you know continue down that road until we do find some sort of solution uh either through NOA County courts or wherever it's going to end up so hopefully it's voluntary and they agree to you know comply but in the event they don't there's there's ways to ratchet it up so I should have started with this and I apologize the owner of the home has been incarcerated for probably the last 10 months maybe longer he is not even there so it's squatters that are there right now unfortunately that complicates things but we will we'll get to the bottom of it um if you want to send me the name of the Deputy from Myan County I'm assuming he's the drug task force one of the Drug Task Force officers it's good or just send it to me you've got my information we'll talk okay well thank you thank you guys did you want to say something Cory Cory jensson 231 uh 90 thanks for your service on the Planning Commission the way yeah yeah I'm enjoying it actually so uh I built my retirement home there in 2016 a lot yeah and um this house has been a disaster and to be honest I feel like I've kind of let my neighbors down by not doing more sooner and when Mark come over to talk to me about coming to the meeting tonight I was all for it so um everything he said is true and probably worse one night one of the they were trying to serve a warrant a person ran went around I heard some commotion I go out to go from my house to my shop sheriffs are yelling at me get in your house now get in well it turned out the guy ran they were chasing him with a dog you know and uh so one of the sheriffs came back to talk to me CU I called to ask him to and it turned out not to age myself but the guy had been a sheriff for for eight years and I coached him in hockey for 3 years so he he explained we know every person in that house we deal we can name them one after another but the house has significantly gone downhill in the last three years and that to tell you Dan is in jail for taking a blow torch to a sheriff so if he's going to do that to a sheriff what would he do to one of us you I've I've I've heard tell that drugs don't improve your judge yeah so it it it is it is as bad as he said and um I guess I I just wanted to support Mark and I was like that's that's miserable you know when he wanted to talk and start doing something I understand and I kind of know the process from my history of you know 35 years of City service before my current job that I know this probably wasn't the first step but we're can but it we're going to have to do something and I mean we've had there's days I see sheriffs go past our my house five times and I finally got you know the one that I coached what is going on well we're probably trying to serve a warrant but also we're trying to watch the neighborhood which is great but it still doesn't do much so no there's got to be a better way to deal with this I know that every time you or someone from your neighborhood calls in and there's nothing action by law enforcement that takes place don't think that that's the case because all the times you see those patrol cars they're doing extra Patrol as a result of your call in an attempt to hopefully deter or find something that happened yeah so don't think that they've gone unheard that's why you're seeing more cars but I will say I did do that public request yes and got no response from the county okay so because I and I did you know Matt was the former chairman of the commissioner in Anoka County so maybe you'd like to speak to that well things happen I mean not like it happened on wanted my plan was to figure out how many times people were come here and say listen they've been there 98 times any or whatever it is you know and they never said told I never got a response of 26 I can tell you okay you know I I repeat this I'm sure of nauseating people at this point but the fundamental right you have as a property owner is the right to quiet enjoyment that's why there are noise ordinances why there's garbage ordinances and all that kind of stuff you know well and you you should not have to put up with this kind of stuff we Bob and I happen to live next to a hard and yard full of stuff you know there's not what you're dealing with right which would uh then you get into public safety too this is just an annoyance but the sheriff too told me one thing that you maybe to help your conscience is these people generally don't steal in their own neighborhood they don't take out of their own Toy Box because they know they'll get kicked out then so if that helps your the problem is they don't know where they are maybe that's why I have been a little more relaxed about it because I have spoke to Dan in the seven years I've worked there or lived there and uh other tenants that walk by the street and stuff but it's definitely a meth house there's no if ands or butts meth or fentel yeah or both so thanks for your time thank you so Aaron can you keep uh city council updated on this issue I'll send it to the city administrator who can do the weekly report and get the information back to you on progress for sure thank you yep Derek Lind thank you Mr Mayor I'll be brief my name is dererk Lynn uh from Ramsey Minnesota I'm with acit acit can you raise your hands uh no well represented yeah yeah thank you doing this we just wanted to confirm we missed um in the work session what the details were of the post elction review I can put it very succinctly to you we directly copied ham lak's resolution so is it one out of three precincts then okay uh on behalf of aset we just wanted to say thank you um that's a very big deal to us you're not the only city we're working with we're working with a lot of cities and it's not the only County either this stuff is going on in other counties and your city Ramsey has also done it that's correct that's correct you're the fourth and we think there's going to be more so thank you very much I'll I'll sit down we'll wait for the consent agenda to pass and then we'll leave after that thank you very much you bet thank you for all your help and in information you've provided to educate us we appreciate it I know I'm going to butcher this name Pam kodik close enough okay my name is Pam cagi I'm here with you again this meeting y I'm 485 224th Lane Northeast East bethl Minnesota you're the election judge right I am the election judge for slightly over 30 years or thereabouts election judge may possibly pass this down I'm handing down uh two copies of the 2022 election results of the state of Minnesota website and uh I found the copy of the 20 20 election results for the audits for the state that the state does wanteded to make sure you guys had a copy the last time I came in I had been crunching numbers on my own I've been looking at it as you recall we uh talked the last time about the fact that out of the audits by the way Matt I think I owe you an apology I think there were more than four count precincts that were audited in an NOA County that is reflected in those packages please feel free to look at them share them I think the biggest things that everybody needs to know is this data is not my data it is from the state of Minnesota and the audits that they do 2022 and I'm just reminding you now we had 22 errors in that audit between the visual scan between the the scan and the manual count for the mandated state recount audit that needs to be done every one of those 22 were human air nothing was a scan that was wrong it was not filling in a DOT putting an X over voting but 22 out of 15,000 I'm not even going to it was 22 on that audit for those for those for those um precincts I just wanted to share with you that one more time I think one of the things that I've heard tonight that I wanted to say and I'll cut it short is with the priorities that can happen that are much more important than questioning something the what the community fighting to get their safe Communities going I really have to stress that worrying about the Integrity of our system with that sort of hard data that's in your hands right now I think is really questionable that's all I have to say and I want to thank you all right well we thank you too I'm I apologize I can't read the last name here is it yeah is that what it is I don't knowon just put my in answer oh okay oh there's nothing I need to say right now okay so I guess we're done with the public forum which brings us to item six on the agenda which is the consent agenda make motion to approve the consent agenda I would like to pull item H anybody else pulling anything I'll pull item one no item item a and it yeah it's just item a approv bills list you guys got anything you're going to pull all right then I'll make a motion to approve the consent agenda all all oh you have more uh no I made the motion already just second I'll second it but with as amended or yeah okay so we're going to pull item a and item h on I consent agenda so we're we're voting to approve everything else any discussion all those in favor say I I opposed none heard the only I just have one question on the consent agenta I think Mike's gone so it'll go to you Matt under Finance it says sack which is sewer I always think it's access charge but it might be a accessibility charge or something anyway sack remittance 63,600 it seemed inordinately High to me is that like quarterly or semiannual or something Mr Mayor and Council these are the fees associated with elevage for the sa fees that they're paying us and it goes through okay so it's a clump of okay that was easy with that I I um move that we approve item a second approve made and accept made and seconded all those in favor say I I opposed none heard Mr Mr Munda you pulled H yes uh I pulled that because I would like to hear from our City's expert on elections Miss Carrie Frost and uh have her opinion weigh in on this wait a wait a minute do you have an item h on your consent I didn't I don't I just wrote it in screen oh it's on the screen okay so we were looking at yeah that was after it was edited on Friday oh so that's what I get for getting ahead of the game yeah right supporting post elction okay I'm caught up all right all right um I'm Carrie Frost I'm the administrative coordinator I'm also the elections coordinator for the s for the city of East beel um been working on the elections since 2012 have been the election administrator since 2014 um as for this resolution I have no problem if you guys want to do this my my only reservations is as you said Kevin there's a chance that the county can say no and then it's no harm no foul on the off chance that the county says yes you're cutting me off at the knees because I don't have enough election judges to fill it but if we uh also in the one hand approve this and in the other hand approve a paying increase for election judges right I'm dealing with the budget that we have for this year right um and so well we can find the money this year to boost the election judges pay but is it the money or you don't have the staff I don't have either one um right now we are very are the a number of Judges that we have that have applied I H I'm still actively recruiting I actually even got an application in today that I was very excited to get we are very heavy to one particular party and because I have to have party balance with anybody that's handling those ballots I'm still scraping for judges at this point um on the consent agenda you guys were approving uh the judge roster that I have for the general election can you tell us which party you're you're heavily Laden with we do not have enough Democratic judges oh I do you think I I go back to my question do you think bumping the pay by $4 an hour I mean it's a it's not an inconsequential increase it's 35 37% it there's a chance it could help absolutely um right now I'm I'm running up against scheduling I mean I know it's it might be enough to get a bunch of Republicans to say they're Democrats I don't want that I want party balance what happens if we don't get enough um right now I have maybe a couple um that are Undeclared or unaffiliated um however if I put those judges in they're not again they're not allowed to handle marked ballots so that means that any judges any tasks on Election Day where they have to handle those marked ballots would automatically go to judges that are affiliated and if there's Less in the precinct that are affiliated there's less people to do the line share of those tasks let me interject something here we have folks from aset here and a lot of them are election judges I I think I know what party though that that's the problem but anyway uh what so so let's say again I think it's I think it's 8020 that the county doesn't AER this I've been told that they're going to they're going to um random sample six out of all the precincts in ano County which I believe is 128 I'm not mistaken so it's a very small it's a very small percentage it's not enough in normal statistics that wouldn't be a large in enough sample set to tell you anything but anyway let's say on the off chance they do approve our request and you can't come up with enough judges of both parties then it comes to staff um or there's got to be another alternative too we can rent some judges from other people um we have I have three other staff members that are trained in the same way that I am this year um if we have to go to staff then but then you have less of your city job that's getting done during but again what if you just said well we can't come up with the judges so never mind luckily I haven't had to deal with that yet but so if but if that were the case right you just say we can't come up we we made the request We Appreciate You granting it but we can't come up with the judges so never mind right go go randomly sample and find another free synct to do that's the worst case scenario right which isn't you know like I said I haven't I have not been in this position before but yeah I'm just I'm just letting you guys know what I'm up against no I understand I understand and sometimes you just got to take a stand because of the Merit of the stand itself whatever the consequences yeah I don't like I said I don't have a problem doing it a h to die on or something but I think it's you know I've looked through information aset's information and most of you know a lot of the stuff I I do not disagree with but um like I said this year it's it's the it's the actual feasibility of being being able to make it happen yeah and right now I'm I'm desperate all right well we've we've heard your concerns so thank you we have we have ultimate trust in you Carrie so we believe what you're saying is to be absolutely valid any any further uh input on the matter of item H if not well I just I don't want to put a drain on the judges yeah I guess that's my one concern what do you mean cuz it's a full day already and then it takes more time it doesn't happen on the same day it happens nine days later right yeah so I mean it's not the same day they're not working a 36- hour day or something yeah yes please [Music] for your record my name's Robert kersner I live in Rapids oh hi Bob and I've I've been the prime mover on how to calculate the supply and demand for this activity and the calculator that we gave your city is something that can be adjusted to balance supply and demand and so for example I think there's three points on the uh demand side number one is not same day it's you know some days later so it's a whole different event yeah so the same judges that work on the election day can uh work on this particular day to do hand counting mhm um number two uh you can do a subset of your totals so you don't need to do three precincts you can do one right and you can also scope the number of offices that you will count so those three factors really make it possible for you to scope this down to a capacity that you have so there's really no reason to say you can't do this a matter of capacity if I could interject we are already our resolution calls for sampling one of the three precincts of East bethl but I was thinking earlier today and I just didn't want to complicate it but I thought what about if there was an additional condition we already know it's only only for elections in which there's they're contested okay you don't you don't count if there's no no opposition but what if it was you limit it further and say there has to be uh you you do a hand count in the case of Elections where the the first and the second is is at least 10% or 20% apart so it's like it's such an overwhelming win you don't need to count it you know that kind of thing see what I'm saying is that yes I do and I think that's a very creative way to approach this well because the my wife's idea actually the the tabulator results will actually have been canvased and approved yeah by the canvas board before the hand count verification takes place yeah so in your resolution you could actually stipulate a margin of difference uh that triggers what you hand count so I no other city has actually approached it that way but that is an actual interesting way to manage the supply and demand balance for this well if that that's what it comes out then that resolution has to be amended correct we can fly right now though and is this not a one-time deal or is this no the one time just just for this election right now I'm asking yeah so how would we word it and only only elections in which the first and second place are separated by less than 10% or 20% you're the experts I'm asking you all I did was listen my wife I think you have full discretion on your margin that you'd like to put in there oh yeah I may but how would you phrase it I think well in addition to the one Precinct uh competitive offices excluding I you were excluding judges judges mostly those aren't competitive and only contested elections yes only contested offices that within a margin of x% you know 10% or whatever I think you're your ballot is already known what's going to be on this ballot so you can already make an estimate of which offices are competitive or which or not but uh adding that additional margin I think gives you a way to scope it down if there's an obvious result that's so Divergent that you don't care about checking it then you have that option to leave that out okay so I'm going to move that we amend the resolution in support of a postelection revie view to add a Criterion a a third Criterion down below that it would only be performed on elections in which the difference be the difference between the first and second party on the ballot is uh less than 20% about that less than 20% yeah please thank you thank you Bob all right so and why don't I just pass you can read what I'm reading here this is again straight up just just summarize for us we need to move along so um how election recounts work in the state of Minnesota um what is the point of this I'm I just want to make you aware of how the recounts take place in statistically when they are less than 1 half of one% it's an automatic recount because you're talking about threshold here State Statute yeah and a discretionary recount of the results of an election for a federal office State office legislative or judicial office can occur at the candidates expense if the difference is excuse me I ran out of my page if the difference is um the number of votes cast for the for the apparent winning candidate and any other candidate is greater than the threshold for a publicly funded one so if it's over a half a percent the candidate can ask for a recount so I'm not quite sure where this 20% threshold Falls as far as being logical a candidate can request that recount well you would probably request to recount if it was 75% at the candidate expense if it was 20% you would want if it was 20% between one party and the other you probably would say I'm not going to spend the money to it's such an overwhelming and I think that's that's something that the city needs to cons be concerned about because where are you going to spend your money for recounts well that's why that's why I'm adding the condition okay thank you yeah okay so we can vote on what I proposed what we have here plus the amendment I proposed and then we can type it up and all that but first is to get the approval for it or or uh reject it whichever so since I've uh driven this thing to some degree well I and my wife now uh I make a motion that we approve resolution number 2024 D 53 resolution in support of a post elction review with the one condition that I just delineated added to it do we have a second second okay we've got a motion made and seconded do we have any further discussion hearing none all those in favor say i i i opposed I so the record can show that it was 4 to one Mr mundle being the Nay Vote or voting I in the negative however you want to say it all right thank you so that compl completes the uh tortuous thanks thank you for being here guys tortuous is uh consent agenda only go Place emptied out yeah well you guys traveling a herd don't you all right that moves us to it agenda item 7.0 which is new business and a Planning Commission we've got four items to deal with that the Planning Commission has forwarded to us item one is a variance of 4141 226th Avenue Mr bird thank you Mr Mayor members of the council this is a variance request to the general regulations to place a detached excuse me easy for me to say detached accessory structure nearer the front lot line than the primary structure at 4141 226 Lane Northeast this property is located in the Oak Glenn Estates and in a rural residential zoning District the applicants property is over two acres in size however one acre of the rear yard is Wetlands lowlands and a platted drainage and utility easement the property owner is requesting a variance for the placement of the detach structure closer to the street than the primary structure due to the drainage and utility easement restrictions and septic placement on the property section 14-4 permits a 2 acre parcel and accessory building in the size of 1,800 Square ft section 142f states that no accessory building or detach private garage shall be located near the front lot line than the principal building with the exception of lots bigger than 3 acres with the principal building more than 200 ft from the front lot line uh this property does not meet that requirement section 66 255 requires that a minimum building set back from a delineated Wetland edge of 25 ft be um um recognized and the septic tank and Mound are located east of the attached garage while the well is located on the west side of this residence section 74-44 requires a minimum building setback from a septic tank to be 10 ft and a septic Mount to be 20 feet however city code does permit the building official to reduce the setback from a detached accessory building or garages with no basements to by 50% or 10 ft additionally since this variance request is for the placement in a front uh of a primary residence according to section 427 B2 the front yard setback distance for a structural placement in this neighborhood is 40 ft therefore if a variance for placement is approved in front of the front line of the house the detach accessory structure would still need to meet the 40 foot front yard setback the conditions of a variance require the consideration of a three pra three Factor practical test of difficulty the first one is reasonableness which means the landowner would use the property in a practical way but cannot do so under the rules of your ordinance in this case an accessory structure is permitted as an accessory use in the rural residential single family zoning District the septic system is located on the west side of the property uh City General Building design standards only require that single family dwellings uh include at minimum a 24x 24 garage so accessory buildings are not a guarantee uh section 14 of detached accessory structures the purpose is to have stand to establish and preserve the character of the principal structure promoting building compatibility and provide for a minimal adverse impact to the surrounding properties through the implementation of height size location and Architectural regulations the second factor is that the landowner's problem is due to circumstances unique to the property and not caused by the land owner himself in this case the property is over two acres in size however one acre of the rear yard is a drainage utility easement for lowlands or wetlands Wetland setbacks as defined in city code require 25 ft from the delineated edge of the Wetland and the placement of a septic system is prohibitive to the placement of a accessory structure within the setback rules of our ordinance the third factor is that the variance would not alter the essential character of the neighborhood this factor is used to consider whether the resulting structure would be out of scale out of place or otherwise inconsistent with the surroundings in this case the minimum structural front yard setback in this neighborhood is 40 feet from the RightWay there are eight Parcels in the Oak Glenn Estates one parcel is vacant two of them have detached accessory buildings two of the parcels have primary residences placed at the minimum setback of 40 ft five Parcels have the primary residence placed deeper in the Lots none of the parcels have detached accessory buildings closer to the front lot line than the primary residence on August 27th the Planning Commission held a public hearing where there was no public comment after a review of the application material and a discussion the Planning Commission by a five to zero vote recommended approval of the variant request for the placement of a detached accessory structure closer to the street than the primary structure City staff subsequent to the meeting received two emails from neighboring properties after the Planning Commission meeting the neighbors were unable to make the meeting however were OB objectionable to the placement of the detached accessory structure in front of them house those emails were included for your review city council should review the request and the planning commission's recommendation and approve deny or modify conditions of a variance request for the placement of a detached accessory structure closer to the front lot line than the primary structure as presented in resolution 2024-25 um proposal from the homeowner the garage is is scheduled or proposed to be placed right here um they are allowed on this property by size an 18800 squ foot detached accessory building by zoning code this is just under 900 square ft what they've proposed as you can see this is the house uh the current structure uh the current septic drain field is here with the tanks off to the side the well is located on this side of the house therefore placing uh the detached accessory structure behind the front line of the house may be very difficult in this scenario because the rear yard the west side of the rear yard is a defined Wetland the rear most of the rear yard is drainage and utility easement as platted and there's also a 15t drainage and utility easement platted up the west side of the property for ribbiting them from placing the detach building on the west side of the front of the house or behind the front line of the house on the west side due to uh setback requirements that last slide looked like the garage was going to be over the the secondary field or Le yeah so any house built after 1995 requires multiple septic sites a a usable septic site and a secondary septic site right now granted um setback requirements for septic uh drain fields are 20t however if it is a slab on grade it can be reduced to 10 ft so they have a current placement of over 24t between the current drain field and if that were to fail they could could potentially place the drain field here or closer and relocate the tanks there are other options we're we just require that any new home application provide two uh usable septic sites when they apply for a building permit so what it's encroaching is the secondary site correct okay okay that's what wasn't clear the expense would be on them if they needed to find a secondary site at this point if they're going to put the garage in the location of the secondary site but um looking at the drawings the elevations I think that there's other locations on their property for a secondary site if they needed one just going to be more expensive what's the driveway going to be asphalt uh the existing driveway is asphalt and the intent is to uh make a rightand turn off of the driveway into the garage door and not ask for a second driveway just out of curiosity I haven't built anything in a long time but just standing back and looking at it seems like it would make more sense to expand the existing garage that uh information was presented little depth a little width and as you know as well as I do a post frame construction building is significantly cheaper than pouring footings for a garage and adding an addition onto an existing structure they initially came in with the idea to do a stick bu building to match the house yeah um and then later on changed the the perspective um to the cheaper cost of a post-frame construction building however if you read in the neighbors complaints post frame post frame like like a PO like a pole bar uh the neighborhood complaints that were lodged uh post Planning Commission meeting um had to do with the architectural standards of the neighborhood there are no other buildings in front of primary residences I think the concern is that it's going to look like a pole barn in their neighborhood and they don't want that to happen so in your packet I included that you could approve a variance with conditions and one of the conditions could be that the exterior of the construction of the building needs to match the primary residence so that it wouldn't look like a pole barn however that's going to increase the expense to the applicant again there are only eight properties in here seven of them are occupied two of them have um accessory buildings that are located behind the primary the front line of the primary structure um the immediate property of the East was set 40 ft from the RightWay and the property immediately across the street is set 40 ft from the RightWay the rest of the buildings are set deeper on the Lots than that and this this would be 40t right this would have to be 40t because they did not request a variance for a front yard setback okay so what you just said sounds like the best solution because the Planning Commission recommended it 5-0 for approval cor so why don't we just attach the condition that it has to I don't know with the wording you you would know the wording better than I but substantially match the existing house we could you're you can do that in any form you'd like I mean that no can be added as a everybody says pole bar and they always think it's sheet metal on the outside it doesn't have to be you know that's why I've migrated to using the term post frame construction because it's it's got the interior of the exterior material is going to be completely different yeah yeah don't don't you guys think that's probably the that would that would appease the concerns of the residents who are concerned it's going to look like a pole are well I guess what I got out of the people that are against it is they don't want a building in front of their house and that's going to be the only one in the neighborhood but they really do they are really limited by the easements and the wetlands you know they're their condition number one or two whatever it is that of the tests that they really it's practically uh impossible for them to put something in in in the confines of our ordinance it is practically impossible yeah with the exception hopefully they got a good deal on the lot so all right any of here I don't see the applicant I do not Aaron are there different uh architectural standards for stick belt versus pool building we require the same number of architectural features we don't necessarily require a certain material but what would uh where going on with this is with the stick built are they wrote in a way that they have to comply with matching the house that's what I would recommend um but are the are are no we do not have that uh it it is I mean it's it should match as close as possible but if we think about it if this house was built in the late 90s they're not going to be able to find the same color shingles they're not going to be able to find same siding as consistent as possible yeah same or similar um that's I was just looking to hopefully easy easily reference uh something give me one second I'll look at the detach accessory code and see if that language is in there seems we've done a lot of letting people build and put structures in front of the [Music] houses well only where they're they're hide bound to try to put it anywhere else you know so uh detach accessory structures over 200 square feet so more than a garden shed shall comply with shall incorporate the Finish design and color scheme that coordinates and is compatible with the color and design of the principal structure um shall include a minimum of a 12-in overhang cornice trim elements she'll have two architectural features um and then excluding storage containers so if we uh just reference that um it has to have these features that we that it references the city code of architectural and design requirements uh section three of the detached structures code we can do that however if they choose to go post frame and their house has got tan siding and they put up tan sheet metal that's coordinating and compatible it's not of the same material you know I I don't know how well the substantially the same construction method that's why I use that term not exact if you want that sheet metal ain't CDX right so if you want that language and if you want that to match the house I suggest you put that in as a condition not just rely on all I think that's what we should do yeah so we looking at a what a metal structure pretty much no if if you're if somebody can come up with a better way to say it I'm wide open to it but just what came to my mind is substantially the same materials and design in other words it matches is the house for all intents and purposes doesn't have to be you know 16 on Center studs it could it could be a stick frame or I'm talking about what the outside of the sighting is going to be part of what I'm talking about yeah cuz the only difference between a what what do you what do you what's your term for po post frame construction post frame construction and regular stick built is is this the framing really you can finish them to look identical can make them look exactly the same you couldn't tell on the outside unless you knew what the what the substrate was all righty then yeah so so would you want to come up with the wording or you think of something better than my weak effort yes give me a minute I'm sure you can what's your opinion I like the substantially um similar and substantially that that's a pretty legal term substantially conforms to the materials and design of main building whole structure design and materials yeah well with that kind of uh condition added to it anybody want to make a motion to do something with it okay I'll make a motion then I'll make a motion that we approve the variance for 4141 226th Avenue Northeast attached accessory structure near front lot line um with the condition that the design and materials used other than the post frame construction otherwise conform to the house that's already on the property architecturally yeah I don't know if you want to hear what I drafted will you put me under pressure or you want me to just let her go to the Wayside oh I can't wait to hear what you came up with there exterior material substantially conforming in uh of course I can't read my writing now uh similar material to the primary structure yeah yeah I think that captures it yeah well done I'll anyway so I I made the motion and Mr Miller is seconding It Is there further discussion hearing none all those in favor of approving this variant say I I opposed none hurt now there's a little bit there was a little bit of a mixup in the packet we originally got anyway it says concept plan is number two and the materials are like third or fourth in the uh in the packet but you want to go to concept plan next I will go with whatever order you oh go ahead it's it's on the agenda concept plan 34 blank blank Viking Boulevard Northeast so they're just throwing out a concept A really unusual property a lot of acreage a lot of [Applause] wetlands all right thank you again Mr Mayor members of the council um this uh item is a concept plan proposal for a three lot rural uh subdivision or development um because of this size and space and the choice of the applicant they wanted to go with platting uh as opposed to a lot split or uh proposed meets and bound split like you will see later um we're looking for informal advice to the developer and owner on any adjustments to the plan prior to the creation of preliminary and final plat this is a concept plan like I said for three rural lot residential development uh it's undeveloped land so that's why it has the 34xx address of Viking Boulevard this property is currently two vacant Parcels totaling 60 Acres located in the rural residential zoning District approximately 35 Acres of the proposed L lots are Wetland or unbuildable likely unbuildable land with the rural residential zoning District the minimum lot size requirement is 2 Acres with a density not to exceed one unit per 2 and a half acres all Lots within this proposal would meet the 2 acre lot minimum additionally each lot meets the 200t uh width at the right of way as well as a proposed setback line there are no internal streets proposed and each lot would need need to obtain an individual access permit from a MoCA County highway department uh This Is A New Concept plan and will be placed on the next available Parks Commission meeting however the standard Park dedication fee for each new lot would be $2,000 next steps will be based on feedback received uh the owner can modify those plans prior to making application for preliminary and final plat once a preliminary plat application is received it will be forwarded to the city and county engineer for comments and final approval on August 27th 2024 the Planning Commission held a public hearing which there was no public comment after review of the application material the Planning Commission also had no formal feedback city council should review the concept plan and advise the developer on any adjustments if uh prior to the creation of a preliminary and final plat application so I'm sure everybody on the council has done their due diligence and read through the materials are there any questions or discussion okay yeah there's no need for a motion there's no need for if if there's no feedback he can move to preliminary and final plat and you'll see it again yeah I didn't have anything okay I guess you guys didn't either huh no okay all right well that was information only then I guess so number three under new business is rezoning R2 to B2 West Highway 65 from kondik to 207th Avenue Northeast really shaking up my schedule here is that that ZZ Top song she got me under pressure it may be easy top I don't know I think it is all right uh at the formal request of the city council City staff have conducted all the formal requirements necessary to rezone the reference Parcels from R2 to B2 which you guys have seen before it's the uh West uh Parcels uh between kondik and 200 7th Avenue Northeast uh they are currently zoned R2 residential and the request was to get them rezoned to be to business highway or not Highway business but Central Business at the March 11th 2024 city council work meeting the city council discussed the rezoning of the referenced Parcels the August 12th 2024 city council meeting city council gave staff formal direction to take the necessary steps to rezone the area referenced on August 16th 2024 public hearing notices were mailed out and published as required by state statute on August 27th 2024 the Planning Commission held a public hearing which there was multiple members of the public present with questions the questions range from what type of business could be approved when will sewer and water extensions come what does the significant natural environment designation over the properties require why was it rezoned from B2 originally to an R2 and how long will it take the rezoning uh to take effect there were concerns from the residents is southwest of the the proposed change properties that had some concerns over noise and light pollution in the future none of the comments were in opposition of the rezoning and after a review of the information material and hearing from the public and a discussion the Planning Commission by a four to zero vote with one exstension recommended approval of the rezoning was it Sharon who OB Sharon yep city council should review consider the planning commission's formal recommendation and approve the rezoning as presented to you in ordinance number 20 24-4 how does the significant natural environmental areas thing impact this yeah um I do have an overlay uh in the packet you can see on the screen uh there is a green hatched yeah area overlay covering this small portion of the proposed rezoning area this was identified by the inoka County Soil and Water Conservation as well as the Minnesota DNR and the Met Council as an area that the city should look at specifically when there are development proposals to protect species uh turtles plants uh other animals identified in the code and allow for the city council to provide some flexibility with the zoning code in terms of a planned unit development in order to okay um allow allow a variation to identify and help out those identified animals okay so if they're talking about an ecological impact statement is that something that we would pay for or they would this this parcel right here council member D is not big enough to require an uh ecological impact statement we're talking numbers of units we're talking acreage this parcel is probably less than 10 acres in size the city could require the developer to provide an ecological impact but State statute's not going to trigger that on this small of a parcel is this a shadow on the on the property in terms of its market value because it's going to require State guidance or federal guidance regarding you know so it can still be developed um as you can see there's a small area of wetland here and a small area of wetland here that are identified in that zon when a development proposal comes in front of the Planning Commission comes in front of the community development director comes in front of planning there will need to be extra uh attention paid to setback distances and what uh proposals might happen around these areas now there is wetland related things here will probably require a wetland review by our city Engineers office as well so there are a lot of things there a lot of second and third looks put into the city code on what can be done in that small it's not like spotted owl potential problems or I don't think everybody from the state capital or federal bureaucracy is there telling you how to do everything yeah because that encumbers the value of the property yes and that would be triggered by uh our Wetland specialist at Inova County as well as our city Engineers Wetland specialist on what requirements the city should run into this before have you run into this before not significant natural environment yeah that's a new new one on me is it something the core of engineers would get involved in if a that as Wetlands if a wetland review is is ordered the core of engineer would be involved they are one of the three legs of the te panel the technical evaluation panel so the core would have to weigh in on that if the Wetland review was required well I gotta imagine that there would be I mean depending on what what goes in there there's currently a business there right now as well as a house so I'm sorry there's currently a business and a house on that property right now and farm Fields the farm Fields uh to the West are not proposed for rezoning unless you decide tonight that you want to include those we may have to step back but what I have in purple is what's been proposed for rezoning yeah okay no I what you have in purple is just fine I feel the farm field has a little bit more value for residential purposes over commercial purposes as well as it's included in the significant natural environment which will give us more leverage when it comes time to plan and uh approve a a zoning or a a development of some sort in that uh that defined area would someone like to make a motion to approve ordinance number make a motion to approve ordinance number 20 [Music] 24-4 approving the resoning second motions made and seconded any further discussion real good description Aon thank you hearing none all those in favor say I I I opposed unone heard then we get down to the meats and Bounds lot split on baton Street ought to be educational let me get back to it here and that is the previous one here it is I really need to figure out a way to get all these maps to look the same size all right uh on July 24th 2024 Nicole Shrek submitted an application for a meets inbound split of a 20 acre parcel located at 22645 Baton Street Northeast into three Parcels the first parcel will contain the original family home and will be divided off as a 7.88 acre lot the remaining 12.50 acre will be subdivided into a 6.06 acre lot and a 6.42 acre lot the property proposed for a division is zoned rural residential and per city code uh 42 the minimum lot size for any division in the rural residential zone is 2 Acres with a minimum lot WID at the public RightWay of 200 ft and has to include 23,000 Square ft of buildable area to be eligible for a meets and Bounds split division as outlined in appendix a section 122 the following conditions must be met the parcel must be a minimum of 5 Acres the parcel must have a minimum of 300t Road Frontage the parcel must contain 23,000 ft of buildable area the appropriate Road public utility and drainage easements as outlined in city code uh must be dedicated and park and and Trail dedication fees as adopted by the city council must be paid at the time of certification although this proposed split meets four out of the five conditions it exceeds the minimum lot requirements for the res rural residential zoning District on August 27th 2024 the Planning Commission held a public hearing which there was no public comment after a review of the material and the application the Planning Commission by a five to zero vote recommended approval of the meets and Bounds parcel split city council should review the request consider the planning commission's formal recommendation and approve as presented resolution 2024 -63 any questions conversation concerns reservations anything seems pretty straightforward to me we have a motion to approve resolution 2024 63 I'll second okay you're making the motion I'll move to uh go ahead with the meets and bonds okay so Mr do ro is motioning to approve resolution 2024 6- 63 well second it Mr Miller seconds it any further discussion hearing none all those in favor say I I I opposed unheard thank you eron thanks for putting up with me huh I said thanks for putting up with me uh it's always our [Laughter] pleasure okay that completes new business any Department reports Mr Mayor and council members I'll just give a few updates here I just want to give a shout out to um Public Works crew Nate and um and also the fire department for the unusual storm events that we had and the trees that were down on the on the roadways and that and I know there's still cleanup that's happening right now um whether it's being put in the in um Parks or where it's located right now we're trying to still process through some of that excuse me Matt can I ask a follow-up question uh did you did you guys have your meeting and discuss what options there would be for if not this event then future storm events having a staging area at Booster Park or wherever yeah Mr May residents can take stuff yeah we did discuss this and um and we I called around to different cities to see what they were doing as well yeah um you know a lot of them unless you're kind of a densely populated city of Anoka type of thing where the city then go around and and pick up brush uh there were some drop off spots and other cities that just um you know they they took it as a if it's in the street or right away the city is responsible and we'll remove that uh but aside aside from that it's the you know homeowners responsibity it's hard to make it work again the logistics work with a city this size right yeah uh part of the challenge that we have with the drop off spot is that it becomes more than just a storm damage drop off uh and um I don't want to say a dumping area but sometimes that's that's the case and so there's those challenges to go with that uh so again it's we're trying to strike a balance um I know the city of Andover has over 15 $50,000 into this cleanup already yeah so it can be a very costly proposition uh for cities um and it can be costly for residents too depending on how much damage occurred and and that sort of thing um I know that uh a lot of neighbors have been helping neighbors and that's Community coming together which is a good thing yeah um so okay well I just had to ask since we talked about it before yeah yeah I got quite a few calls on that yeah y trying to figure out what are we going to do with it right and why doesn't East bethl have a compost site because L of lakes and Andover have composes I mean that's there's a gentleman who would love to put a compost site in East bethle and we've been talking with him right down the street I se to recall and uh nothing's come of that he owns a corner of uh 221st and 65 there the oh yeah the northwest Corner good guy actually good guy he owns the compost site that the county contracts with next to the Sheriff's building OT I believe is the name of it uh they do a great job over there and um and they're looking to kind of expand that operation and still in conversation with the city as to what options might exist in areas that might exist it almost sounds like a CST kind of deal I don't which understanding some of that sensitivity uh we want to trade carefully on this conversation yeah that that was quite the U quite the topic for a long time yeah yeah so that being said I just want to give a shout out to the public works crew and the fire departments for their yeah they did a great for their endless hours of work and and trying to get things back on on online um I also want to as part of the Friday update just remind everyone that there's an invitation for the CED Creek ecosystem scientific Reserve um on August 8th at 600 p.m. uh this is the parks committee meeting August 8th October I'm sorry October 8th okay uh at 6:30 p.m. and uh this is the parks meeting and uh Council and mayor you're invited to attend this um be there and kind of see what they're doing I I figured it's a cool place council member Miller would be there he loves it um and I think it's a u you know it's definitely a gym that's in the in the community here so got a post that there would more than three if three of you attend on attending you'd want to post that if you want to let us know um if you plan on being there we can certainly I just did he did he just did too yeah okay I plan on itless post it we'll have uh we'll have carry post that one um yeah no that was Tim Miller who wrote the article for the East bethl bulletin letting people know about the SE Cedar Creek ecosystem it's really something very special I just want to give a an update on the uh San Hill San Hill Creek Parkway bird bath I'm sorry is that is that what is that was that the term that bird bath Road the bird B oh yeah the bird the bird bath yeah uh so um unfortunately when the sewer was put in there there was a a sag in that line and uh we're we're working through that I I reached out to Perkins Contracting they're actually located out of now then and um and kind of chat with them a little bit about what's What's worst case what are we talking about here and um and uh and they seem to think that there's other options to mitigate some of that such as putting a manhole near it jetting it annually if need be um and uh and so we're trying to get our arms around what's a liability if there's backup and that sort of thing so um there was uh what should have been included in the developers agreement there were two stubs one which had the S one which didn't what should have been included in the developers agreement was if you go with the S connection you need to fix that uh versus going with the other one and unfortunately the plans are set up to go and connect with the S one and that wasn't included in the developers agreement so uh we're somewhat um trying to process through that with limiting or mitigating I should say what cost may occur in fixing this this issue there were dollars held back back um how how long a stretch are we talking about that's affected 20 ft I'm believe does it go under 65 no from the center of Sand Hill Parkway y to the east oh so at the driveway you would have half of the lane you'd lose the northbound lane so You' have to patch that there's no way to go after the contractor that put that in huh no they withheld dollars uh $60,000 at the time and um because there was a belief that 20,000 it was 60,000 it was 60 yeah and there was a belief that it's a little you know if they could work with the other connection then you know the problem somewhat goes away at that point but um but unfortunately the way the project laid out it was more efficient and less costly to connect to this one which now creates the problem should have been on a punch list yeah anyways yeah uh just we'll keep everyone up to dat on that and um and try and figure out the best most reasonable solution to the challenge that we're facing so but aside from that unless there are questions I think that includes my report any Council reports I move to adjourn oh before we adjourn can I get on the next work meeting that we should talk more about storm uh recovery and so forth okay maybe come up with a two-day plan for people to drop off stuff from their yard just something I think we should go over a little bit better and learn something from this one we're learning that our departments are really good fire department's been great uh but we still have residents out there who need some help yet maybe we can come up with some ideas for them I have one I'll save it for the meeting perfect I know the trailer parks had a couple trees laying down on the trailers see wood was one Speaking of that where where are we at with that with cedar wood with the whole they were last thing I knew they requested a public data request our records and all that has there been no motion is that it uh I know that Carrie is finalizing that they we requested they send they sent us a thumb drive to avoid any sort of printing cost I received the thumb drive today or yesterday I forget which day it was okay so we are going to mail that back to them and meet that meet that um request any anybody have anything else otherwise we'll honor Mr D Ro's motion to adjourn second is is motion okay motion made and seconded to adjourn all in favor say I I I opposed none heard --------- ##VIDEO ID:543UvNcFHTg## okay we'll call to order uh the city council work meeting for September 9th 2024 I I forget do we we don't need to approve an agenda or anything anyway you can see the agenda up there on the wall over there over there uh first item on the agenda is the post elction review and we discuss this at a recent past work meeting and then we had a vote that didn't go anywhere at our last city council meeting so I asked it to come before us again at this work meeting and at the subsequent city council meeting following this and I just I assume that I did not present my case well enough so I'm my goal is to try to at least clarify what it is um as far as a post election review what it is is we're we're requesting for the inoka County canvasing Board to choose at random a Precinct of the one of the three precincts in East bethl for a hand count of the election results that's what we're requesting and they don't have to Grant it they I'd say it's probably 8020 against us getting it approved anyway but we just want to at least pass a resolution request it and let people know that uh we're interested in doing that the first purpose of this is to number one confirm via random sampling that machine reported results correlate with handc counted results okay just like a check on the machine and the machines are just a mirror of whatever they get you know garbage in garbage out and the second thing is to let all involved in the process know that the residents of east bethl east bethl as a city cares about election integrity and that we are watching how the pro how the process is conducted just letting you know that we're we're paying attention um and as far as the cost of it if our requests were to be granted and I say it's kind of a long long odds but if it's granted it would be one Precinct and the cost would be about $900 to cover the cost of election judges another issue that came up when we discussed this before which Carrie Frost who our city coordinator um administrative coordinator excuse me um was an issue of how election judges are paid and in the uh packet for tonight's city council meeting I saw what the pay was it's $11 1150 and 1175 I mean you can do substantially better at a McDonald's you know and and it's for election so I really think at near in the near future we need to revisit that I would argue that I looked up the state minimum wage and that's not really really relevant here it's what's the market prevailing minimum wage and I see $15 an hour all over the place I don't know about you guys but it's like if you if you can fog a mirror you know with your breath you can make $15 an hour so I I would think that uh that would be a pretty close approximation to what the minimum wage is and uh you know we we you know we're known as being fiscally conservative all that but we don't expect people to work for free unless they're on the city council but uh U I think we can do better than that I think we owe it to the people who do that work and it might make it easier to find people to be judges so anyway that's I just wanted to provide that quick overview of what the postelection review is what the purpose of it is and what it might cost us because I don't think I was clear enough about it before anybody have any questions about what I just went through okay next thing on the agenda is the whispering asp asp excuse me Whispering Aspen contract discussion I'll be abstaining from this discussion and any decision making that comes from it all right Mr Mayor um before us here I have a contract that was uh signed it appears back on March 31st 20121 um with a um uh then Firebird land LLC and um and I believe that this this um scenario kind of comes up annually or people question it um and I think that this contract is um kind of I think that there is some clarity in this contract and there's also some um some uh aspects of it that maybe doesn't speak to other areas that that should be considered um but at any rate um the contract is here and the um um I think it's now formerly Firebird now um remind me LLC what's that Firebird LLC formerly that no but um now it's BDM BDM that's sorry draw a blank it's still okay well I don't know what the BDM is then on the sign um at any rate um so my understanding was uh that uh this land and certainly anyone can correct me if I'm wrong uh because I'm kind of coming into this as well kind of um trying to put puzzle pieces together but um after speaking with uh Alex guggenberger at the county the the city evidently owned the land at one point if it was tax forfeited or how that that came into ownership and um and there was at a point uh where the city was looking for uh an interested party in developing the land um to to um bring development to the city and and there were some going to going back through the meeting minutes and that there was a lot of discussion back and forth and and um a couple of iterations of of the contracts until ultimately this one was signed and um and then there was some talk of uh a community center in there as well as Outlaws the outlots were def find and um and the city as I understand would retain ownership of the the the center and and those out lws in agreement for in exchange for um selling the land and then also um allowing um BDM or Firebird LLC Firebird land LLC to uh use office space in that facility um and I think that's kind of where where it's the contract kind identified it and then the question is is that where the contract is today uh is that the practice of of what's going on there today I think those are some of the issues that are being raised and so um I wanted to first of all I think it's it's if I can speak freely I don't think it's it's beneficial for the community to continually deal with this every year without resolution of some sort um um I think that uh being able to resolve this in whatever form that takes uh is important and one of the suggestions that I've that I've provided is by contacting our County attorney Brad Johnson uh he had indicated that he would not provide a an opinion on this uh but that an opinion is available through um the Attorney General uh that they provide that service if our attorney was to draft a letter and say this is the given circumstance uh can you can you provide uh an opinion on on the various disputed matters uh and kind of detail those out the Attorney General will do that is there a cost associated with that not in my experience not in my experience um there would be for our attorney to draft a letter well yeah yeah uh so so then I think that would bring some closure to this issue because if and then it comes up next year and somebody says well wait a minute how about this that document can be produced and and there's closure again at that point um so whatever that opinion is I think short of it being lit litigated in court and having a judge U determined through a declaratory action this is what's you know was agreed to back then this is um where it stands short of that happening which I think is not necessarily advantageous for either party um that um that this third-party opinion of the uh you know attorney general might might be a next next Second Step to to providing closure on this but again that's that's you guys' decision if you want to go down that road um and um and uh you know see if we you know if we need to get that sort of letter that opinion letter so what do you guys think well it's obviously been out there I mean it comes up every year I don't know enough about the contract I haven't read it so I'm not I can't say one way or another other than the only thing to do is to have a judge or an administrator or whoever look at it make a decision yeah judges make the big bucks for determining what is the letter of the law versus what is the intent of the law or a contract or whatever they they parse between what it says versus what it what the real agreement was and uh it's it's in my experience anyway it's never good to have legal unlar unclarity or whatever the whatever the correct word is uh it it just doesn't serve any purpose to anybody um so I would I would be supportive of getting a attorney general to at least look things over and and sorted out for us I think it's necessary because what has been said out in social media is one thing what is facts or probably something different looking into this uh last year when it came up we were told that there was a contract contract's fine that's it what we weren't told at that time was that and correct me if I'm wrong the city is paying the electric bill it's paying the gas bill there's been no no water sewage or Garbage charged building insurance phone DSL bathroom supplies cleaning supplies cleaning cost snow removal Lawn Care building improvements I've read this contract 10 times not once does it say in here that we would be paying for any of this stuff and by paying for any of this stuff it's coming directly out of our resident's pocket comes right from taxes I don't know why it was set up that way there's nothing in here that says that now I have been told that the building was donated back to the city in this in the purchase agreement contract it says seller will retain ownership of the streets curbs sidewalks poble water system to the curb stop sanitary sewer system to the curb stop storm sewer and and here's a key thing in here which is probably the gray Zone outlots a b c and d outlot c has got the community center on it the question is since it's not mentioned anywhere else in the purchase agreement if the city owned or had that property in foreclosure it was never owned by anybody else except the city because it wasn't included in the purchase agreement so my question is basically if this is true why are we paying all these bills this is not fair for the residents to inquire these bills or even have as a burden second who owned the building in the person agreement it says out Lot C out Lot C is defined as community center on it so that alone sitting here doing your job as a councilman watching over the checkbook for the city and this is my money too why am I paying this bill where it says the city has to pay this bill and we've been doing this for 22 years I believe a residents need some explanation to some of this stuff I would certainly like to have my business funded but I didn't go through it like that why is there a sign out in front of a building that's owned by the city I believe you have to go through a set of what applying for it was it applied for why is it there and how long is this going to really go on how many years does it take a developer to do a development we're sitting on 22 years of City paid bills one thing it says in the purchase agreement also is in uh section 3-4 all expenses in order to develop this real property shall be paid for by the purchaser those are the Mr Mayor um I had a brief conversation with uh Mr mundle senior um at the last meeting and said we would be having a work session here and wanted to invite make sure he was going to be in attendance and I don't know if you'd want him to say a few words or speak to some of this perhaps there's some questions he can answer um I don't know either um I think this this kind of gets to your point of why we need a third party who has no dog in the fight you know we have an obligation to look out for the PE residents money Brian Brian senior and Junior have a a business interest involved here we're all you know we're all uh we have a position if you will whereas the Attorney General doesn't have a dog in the fight one way or the other it's just what do the agreements say what's okay what isn't like signs I mean it is that conform to your zoning and all that kind of stuff you know things like that they can just sort it out whereas whereas we we're all biased in one way or another did you have anything to throw in J I have the same concerns as Tim because I've been contacting with residents too and not only that is I have a question is water and sewer bills are so high up there and I don't understand why just for an example when we had last year when they were assessing everybody's taxes majority of the list was out of whispering Aspen I think there was five or seven out of Viking preserve so I mean that's telling me I mean anywhere from 200 plus a month I've heard yeah and some people can't afford that and I don't know why it's that way why is it just that development I can't answer that question I don't know either that's what I'm trying to figure out too it just seems like the residents have been paying dearly for this development yeah for 20 some years but again we get back to that's why just keeps dragging out is because it's it's a back and forth without resolution if we want a resolution one way or the other uh however it falls is the way it falls you have to have a dispassionate third party involved that's why judges exist they're just passionate third parties they don't they're not personally involved in the cases if they are they recuse themselves just like Brian properly did he's he's he's involved so he can't you know so I think that's really if we want to resolve it and I do I do I don't I mean that's just how I live my life I don't like things hanging out forever I want to resolve them whether I like how they turn out or not I'd rather have resolution than just dragging stuff on forever it's just pointless to me it's just my personal perspective on it so to to that resolve I mean yeah so to that question do we want to give Matt the feedback that we do want to pursue or not or is there another alternative otherwise social media oh forget about you don't have to tell the truth out there no you can just put anything out there no that's and it has been and we've got residents fighting with residents I mean this is something that just needs to be add way to address anything yeah it's just I was very dis disheartened to see that show up especially at this time of time of year with an election pending and all that it's just like you know it's really easy to be a fire bomber when you don't have any stake and how things turn out you know and all it does is make a mess and I I was pretty disappointed about that but anyway uh do we want to provide direction to our city administrator to pursue the Avenue he described which is to contact the Attorney General's office and have them review the case and they'll take statements of facts I'm sure there'll be depositions and all that kind of stuff and take it out of the court of public opinion take it out of the court of involved parties and put it in the hands of someone who's doesn't doesn't have a vested interest one way or the other may I agree with that it's the only way it's the only way we're going to get resolution there's questions put them put them to the city administrator if anybody's got questions yeah yeah not just us but the mundles and you know but it's it's like it's time let's let's just deal with it one way or the other but come to a resolution and live in peace together both parties say Okay however it turns out we agree it's settled so we can stop nashing about that one and we can pick a new one okay well I guess that resolves item two okay Mr Mary I'll I'll contact our attorney then and have them draft up a letter if you have independently have questions forward them to me we'll try and weave that into the letter um we can provide everyone with a copy of that letter before it goes out um to get the blessing on that and then um and then I'm not sure what a turnaround time is on on you know their office reviewing it and no idea and to your point I don't know what steps they take if it's read the contract and make a determination or if it's depositions or well they're going to have to get a statement of facts to know what the facts are and contrast that's the letter of the law versus the intent of the law thing I was mentioning so you got to you got to take a statement of facts got to depose people and they're not going to depose everybody on what's up and East Beth I can assure you you know if you're not a involved party keep your trap shut you know that's going to be their attitude you you want to boil it down to simple facts not a bunch of opining okay uh item three mayor and Council compensation so did you folks figure out the answers to the questions two questions we had one was when was the last time there was an increase in the city council members compensation as well as the commission members compensation and how do we compare with adjacent communities Ham Lake Oak Grove St Francis yes Mr Mayor we did do some research on this um I think the original compensation started in '94 and they were changed in uh October 19th of 2005 so approximately 11 years later and um and in terms of how you compare to other communities you're in the ballpark with what salaries are for other communities what I will say is that um do you have a list of the results you got um I don't recall if we've compiled that okay um the um you know first of all I I think the the best statement is no one does this for the money but I think you you said that earlier um but there even with adding work sessions to the agendas now it's kind of increased workload and that sort of thing so there could be an argument for an increase um and in all honesty there were work sessions back in the day too okay in 2010 and all that they had work sessions not as often as we do but there's always work sessions and it wasn't uncommon to have one once a month okay um so at any rate um it's uh what I will say from a budget standpoint is um you'll be hearing from Mike tonight but um we have included the increase in the budget that doesn't mean you have to go with that um but we wanted to Prov provide you you know in the in the September here when we're establishing the preliminary budget you can set a high point but you can't go any High um any higher than that you go lower than that um to confirm that in December but um but that would be your worst case scenario shall we say in terms of adding that in there um again I want to reiterate that it's not added in for any purpose to you know Trump a decision here tonight it's just in there in case a decision is made as the placeholder right as a placeholder um and so uh you know this is I think one of the challenges that that City councils face and certainly uh commissions is is that of time and uh and time commitment and so I recall when I was serving on Ramsey city council they they discussed um you know increases because the cost of babysitting some people people needed babysitters had gone up dramatically and so um to try and compensate for some of that or compensate for fuel or cost of operating vehicle all those things go up in time um and um and those are Arguments for it um there is uh you know arguments against it too I guess from the standpoint of you know some people get upset at at increases so it's um it's really it really boils down to a policy decision of what you guys want to do and if it's you seem to be kind of on a every 10 years there's an increase type of thing um so you're thinking we're two increases behind at this point it's been 19 years since the last right so so there hasn't thank um there hasn't been a um an increase for quite a while um but um I'll read these off if you'd like me to the neighboring communities okay and over mayor is $112,000 a year council members are $10,000 a year uh they have two City Council meetings a month Workshop 10 months of the year um Eda meeting once a month and HRA meeting one HRA meeting per year Cambridge uh mayor is 7500 per year council members are 5600 per year two Council meetings uh a month and a handful of special meetings Ham Lake mayor is $6,000 a year year council members are $44,900 per year and they have two Council meetings a month byan mayor is $50 per meeting Council me members are $50 per meeting they have two Council meetings per month um elak Grove mayor is 6290 per year council members are 5540 per year uh with two Council meetings per month St Francis it's $35 for 4 hours or less $70 for more than 4 hours for the mayor council members are $35 for 4 hours or less than $70 for four hours or more it's kind of a weird system isn't it yeah yeah uh Wyoming is a mayor is 5,000 council members are 4,000 and two Council meetings per month um I think each Community kind of decides how they want to handle it um I don't know that there's a right or wrong answer to any of it uh but um but I you know I think if you're trying to compensate a little bit for time um that might be one of the basis for establishing you know the the the salary if you will well I'm going to combine three and four because in in and I'm not pandering by saying this okay this is not election year pandering but I think the uh the priority would would start with the commissions in my opinion because I think they should be doubled if you're going to give an average of two hours per month to a meeting plus another hour to two hours of prep getting $40 is not like you're overpaid or anything and right now they get 20 and that's you know again you get back to you know you have to actually think to be on the Planning Commission and Parks Commission and stuff you have to digest information and so I I think it's I would say that would be the highest priority because I take your point we seem we do seem to be in the middle I can make a joke about that but I won't but uh but I would say that the commissions really need to be doubled to $40 AG for for attendees if you're attending you know huh that's I'd agree with the commissions yeah yeah because it it takes at least three hours a month to be on the planning Comm commissioner Parks Commission I'm forgetting one what is it it's not the Eda it's not the H there's something else too isn't there well fire L on there's well yeah there Thea on too I figure on average and I it's probably just my over overdoing it nature but I figure conservatively 40 hours a month to do the mayor's work Mr conservatively I'll comment on that I used to I still do somewhat recruit candidates um at least in the city I I um I live in and and one of the main questions is how much time is the involvement here you know how much time and I and I jokingly say it's uh it's two meetings a month not that big a deal yeah um the reality is is that um if you're going to do your job reviewing your packet ahead of time going and visiting you know uh perhaps are where they're asking for uh uh you know any sort of AC you know accommodation from the council in terms of decisions or anything like that um then uh you're spending a significant amount of time yeah and uh and it does wear on the family there's no question about that U it when I served on Ramsey city council it wore on my family so I speak from personal experience but and that's and and I attribute it somewhat to college in that do you want the a or do you want the C it's your choice you know the a is going to take a lot more time than the C well it's just like the election judges you know you don't want to be abusive you know take advantage of people because they have patriotism and want their election system to run well so gee we don't have to pay him anything you know well that's that's not being that's not honest dealing you know that's not honest dealing you you pay for the the value of the work you know and and election judging is important it's that's the key to election Integrity is the is the judging and uh same with the Commissioners we count on them to do a lot of the work we have to do it as well we have to I I watch every Planning Commission meeting and you know Tim's at the park commission meeting and you know it does take a lot of time if you want to do it well you know if you want to Slough off I suppose like anything in life you can Slough off but you know if you're going to be here and spend the time it seems this is it seemed always seemed to me easier to just do the work than it is to pretend to be doing the work actually always seemed harder to me than just doing the work you know in anything I ever did in life so but I think we're in agreement that that we'd like to see some kind of a resolution proposal to increase the commissions to double their stien and we seem to be be in a consensus for that and what do you guys think about the the city council members I don't know it sounds like we're pretty much in the middle yeah it really does I had 6,300 for mayor 5700 for Council that were right in the area of where all the other communities I agree so I would agree with commissions they can put a lot of time in and have to deal with a lot there's also those the aspect of site visits too we don't just take the written stuff and we go out we do and they do go out and visit the sites and so you can only get so much from a paper under a description a plat whatever they go out and they look at the sites and all you got driving time and cost of fuel and all that it's it you know it's not it's not a it's not work for people who just want to Coast you know certainly certainly don't need those kind of people on the commissions so I think that's fair and I would say too that probably these you know this is a snapshot of time today I would say these are as everyone's in budget discussions these are probably topics of discussion as well for for other cities so um if you were to approve an increase I would say you'd probably be you know um others would be probably talking the same sort of conversation right now as well so and we're we populate the HRA the housing Redevelopment Authority but the same should apply to the Eda as well as long as it's in constituted the way it is with non-council members on it does that kind of cover that so do you want Mr Mayor just for clarification commissions for sure mayor council stays the same or yeah I think it I think we have to for now okay all righty I want to leave enough time for the White Pines rental presentation okay okay that settles that [Music] um somebody's phone is interfering with the uh mic so I'm not sure if it's too close or something else I don't know it might have been mine mine was under does that help we getting feedback little clicking sound I wasn't sure if it was our camera that was misbehaving okay uh Mr Mr Mayor the next item on the agenda is White Pines a rental presentation this is um a topic that we've brought before you in the past and been talked about I know the applicants wanted to make a presentation on this uh so you'd have more information as it relates to what they're thinking and uh I had uh Aon pull together some information as well as a relates to what it might take to do something like this in our community in terms of ordinances and and um and everything else that that might provide might be a little bit of a conflict but at any rate um I don't know if the applicants are here okay um Mr Mayor I'll turn it over to you and you can proceed come on up to the mic and introduce yourselves and my name is Pete image me and my wife Maria own white pines own white pines General Store and you know we own that plus we own a parcel land right next to us that's zoned B1 limited um you know the store has been in the community for a very long time um it's a part of the community and um you know we're just looking for ways to try to increase some revenue for us because basically where we're located there's not t necessarily enough support from the community to you know make make it profitable enough um as far as a business but yet it's um a service to the community and even people all around the lake because it's you know we carry a lot of different things that they may need in an emergency or whatnot so that being said we've got this other Pro piece of property and Pete bacasa here um who lives in the community too he has worked with some of these type of developments like we're talking about as far as the rental part what we want to do with that land so with this for that I would let Pete discuss kind of in layout what he's thinking and what our thought is and I know from the when you brought it up Aaron that some of the things that we wanted to do aren't necessarily allowed for the ordinance but we wanted to give you a more indepth explanation of what the project would involve can you bring that up on GIS I have it do you happen to have any visuals like a layout or anything okay no what uh I live right down the road from them and uh so I know P what what I live out kind of like too so I live on the corner of uh lak Shore in Lincoln okay and so anyway uh I do large SC that in Mike's old house in Mike's old house across from the community center no I live in the corner Lake great big house Gail Murphy's you stay have all the Hur in the earth oh that way I'm thinking of I'm thinking of forest sorry yeah anyway I've uh done a lot of development and so I I was also working with him to try to refinance the loan there and he's it's such a small uh volume of income coming in there it really doesn't fit in the categories where you you know get benefits through SBA or any kind of a conforming Loan program so he's got a parcel next to them and then there's another one that's connected to that that a neighbor wants to sell so he's got 140 ft of Frontage is that Harvey's or is that the this one right here is what we own 100 by 100 right and the one right below it is the one 40 by is that OT tra yes Harvey T to Harvey okay and when I was telling him kind of what we were thinking they were looking at selling it he would be willing to sell that to us so we could conceivably have 140 by 100 piece of proper to do what we want to do so we're just looking at like a 320 square foot cabin slab on grade you know and um oh so you've moved away from the the tiny homes or whatever you talked about well you know they're not for residents or someone to move in there and have an address a lot of people in the neighborhood have company and people over and there's a lot of small houses in the neighborhood they're always getting on Facebook looking for for to yeah and not only that you've got ice fishing and and traffic all year coming up and down Lincoln there so have you talked to the neighbors yeah I don't think any of the neighbors really some of the people I have I've kept it kind of quiet because in our neighborhood I mean no matter what you do if you're going to make a change or something there's going to be people that next thing I know it's on Facebook right exactly there you'll never make everybody happy yeah but a few of the people I've mentioned it to think it's a good idea or they're just like it doesn't really matter what I think you got to do what you got to do to you know keep your business aoat and you know make a profit so I mean a lot of people are just indifferent some people will probably complain but you know it's like well like the P can explain kind of the layout but yeah I'm sorry yeah I was I was thinking you can get six cabins in there he's got about a 60 plus foot set back on the store from the frontage of Lincoln and you can run a driveway on both sides of the parel and he has ample Park he has more parking that he needs already and he's got parking on the side and then there's an extra lot across from uh Smokies is right there too that restaurant kitty corner so it's you know it's kind of a commercial area but there's not much you can do I mean nobody's going to build a house there he's not going to build another commercial building why not why not build a house there well well it's not zone for you'd have to get a variance or have to be change your residential which when we first thought that was our first is that both Harvey's lot as well as I don't know what Harvey is own right now that one be one limited because when we bought the store we lived in Crystal we now live in the community up front over on hot Thorne but we our thought was to build a house on that property right fr the store win win right because according to the county that lot is Zone residential well the city has it Zone as B1 limited opposite of the county so and I was told that supersedes the county so well why don't we have you you've had the conversation of just changing the zoning so you could build a home well this about three years do and they said you know be a tough sale for the city council because um there's only five B1 limited Zone Parcels in East ble four of them are already developed that's the only undeveloped one what makes it B1 limited naron can you it's our zoning code the City Zoning code but what does what does B1 limited mean um doesn't allow much it's a it's a it's a small list of business opportunities that service a smaller community so exactly what the General Store is doing right now convenience store correct and the can I ask you a question I'm sorry what pre what prevents you from having a liquor store or getting a liquor license in that store I'm just curious because the amount of drinking that occurs over the years has occurred in that yeah I know is Smokey has an off sale Smokey does Smokey does have off sale well yeah but I mean right oh I know I know I went the other day after a motorcycle ride and paid $6 for a 12 oz bottle of beer I mean but when you I did a little bit of research too with because we've got a couple of the beer distributors that service Smokies we get some like craft sodas from them because we don't sell any liquor at all but I asked them about that act margins on a liquor store aren't that great it's based on volume you have to sell volume to make money doing it again we're going to be if we did a liquor Ser we could carry a lot less stuff basically what the people in the community would drink but still you would need the volume to actually make a profit well for us to do another business loan build a liquor store then that has to be have an employe plus the store it's like yeah the the cost would outweigh the potential profit whereas with during this it'd be like a resort Tye or just a cabin rental for like a week or three days like the community center and the community uh there they rent they do weddings a lot of weddings and there my daughter's wedding occurred there and they have guests that come in from out of town too well they have to drive to forth lake or plane and stay at a hotel if they coming far down wouldn't it be great if somebody want to have a family re Union or something at the community center or wedding and their guests could rent a cabin two blocks away and like I said that's all it would be it's not going to be long-term rental um it be like I said more of a resort and then like you guys know ton lake is a very big ice fishing lake so you've got people who would come up there that may come up daily you know drive up to fish where if they want to do a fishing week and if they had a place to stay you know they rent it for 100 bucks a night or whatever and they could just hit the lake you know the whole weekend things like that so there's definit pluses and it would also help us because of course the people there would also you know hit the store for um groceries and things like that they were right there so and I don't think it's really going to increase it wouldn't necessarily increase traffic you know to the point any it wouldn't well it does raise the question of where are they going to park I mean I mean everybody's going to have a car foot cabin so if two people are in there it's crowded yeah well well that's why I that's about the layout thing is because we could see the spaces involved you know yeah so it'd be six cars there'd be one per driveway I mean even if two people go there they probably would ride together I guess and uh you know there's there's camper hookups and cabins all over that whole s going down all the way you know where John swisser lives back in there across from me there's I don't know four or five cabins that are still being used over on Hawthorne no right across oh you're on hawthorn oh you're on I'm talking about on Lincoln oh yeah yeah uh Mary's house has been there for what 60 years yeah yeah Danny's Dan's now they've got like I don't know three cabins there plus over on yeah ESP and Aller that's yeah so that's really you know I I don't know and so we would need to know you know if it's something that you guys would consider and then would it be would you really need to change a code that much or you know well let's turn our attention to the gatekeeper known as Mr Burke now when it comes when it comes to uh uh zoning in East bethl I think you're right there with Craig Yokum about who which of you knows the most about it I mean Craig's been doing it 30 years out here with he's city engineer um but Aaron is very well acquainted with the zoning um so but what are your thoughts yours and Matts of course yeah thank you Mr Mayor uh members of the council I uh first when I hear the word cabin I don't think of um something that's maybe uh on Wheels but when I think tiny home or um Park Model I immediately think of something on Wheels that's brought in that's temporary or similar to a mobile home or a manufactured home these are stick built right yes and they're they're bolted to slide on does it it comes in on Wheels however like a park model yeah okay so they still bring itet you set all your bolts and they just bring them in and set it down J bolts yeah yeah okay um the the problem is then uh zoning obviously as we discussed before this is a business Zone that would be semi- sort of a residential use however short-term rental we don't have a short-term rental ordinance we don't have short-term rental inspections we don't have short-term rental fees there are a lot of things in the zoning code that we would need to take a look at to determine is this feasible for the City uh number two cluster septic systems we have nothing in our in our ordinance about cluster septic systems so if there's six cabins here we're going to need a um commercial septic design that could be approved by uh the the um uh engineer that we use or the building inspector that we use that we just initiated that contract with over in Forest Lake or Wyoming to see if that could even be handled on a lot that's only a little over a quarter of an acre the one who's working on the Cedarwood situation that one uh no no uh we you guys passed a resolution to allow us to use I think it's Wyoming's uh septic inspector because he's got certification for but I thought that was it that's what he was working on with Cedarwood uh we just I I think we brought him on just as a um option for future commercial septics okay so now that is that what you anticipated was a cluster septic situation you know most of the larger houses in there have four or five BS I mean this is six and it's going to be you know the use there you're not going to have it's not going to be a TH or however our zoning code allows for one residents per parcel per septic system not six individuals into one system we don't have a cluster system designed in our ordinance you don't have a Shar system correct yeah but it it can work if if you uh and then if we talk if we talk setbacks we don't know where these are going to be placed or how far they need to be from property lines how far this clust how big this cluster system is going to need to be and will that meet setback guidelines and then uh will each one have a parking space will each one like our architectural standards uh there's there's a lot of things that will have to be explored based on what plan is presented um in the B1 Zone uh we require by ordinance that the minimum acreage for a multif family structure be 3 Acres without sewer and water this is a little over a quarter of an acre so if we were going to do a planed unit development which is required by the B1 code the underlying zoning says it has to be three acres this is just over a quarter of an acre so we've got a hurdle to take care of in that scenario as well lot of hurles I know there you do have a recreational zoning in in East Beth for a campground for a campground right this is not a campground but that this is this is now a business a short-term rental business which is what a campground is basically it's very similar it's going to be you know you go to any Campground you can rent a tent site you can rent a cabin or you can rent now you now you see Pete why this is going to be a lot more complex than just what is it is it a campground is it a is it a multi-unit business is it a we're going to have to Define that in our code which doesn't exist right now right so some things that I wanted to bring up the reason we didn't come in with this is the reason right they can be attached they can be back to back so whatever the setbacks need to be once we know what your compliance is I can give it to the engineer who design we just need to know if you are open any kind of approval of that and if you are what are the requirements and then we'll draw it up and show it to and the other thing the reason one be the Shar have because it would be less expensive but I mean if we can't get that done if we need to if we need to do an you know holding tank for each of the C I mean whatever I mean we just need to know what you guys would require of us to make you you know who I'd like to ask for their opinion is the person I believe in this room who's lived the longest on Lake Beach or close to it and that would be Mr D Ro right what are your thoughts about about not enough information okay I'm kind of in the that camp too I was hoping for some kind of a layout but uh hard to do because I know it's a dog Chas in its tail I I get it yeah you know yeah but we do have Pete's got engineers in that he works with that could he do the layout but you know yeah I mean you got to start somewhere a few thousand to you know layout which we can but if it's even a nonstarter if it's something you guys wouldn't even consider well I mean just that's why I asked for Aaron input it's a it's a lot of hurdles you know it's a a lot of moving Parts Brian what are your thoughts on it yeah well right now there's a whole mess of unanswered questions yeah that uh it it would be my guess is a long process to wait through everything get it right that's kind of what I'm seeing I I like the idea of it but how realistic would it be for the city to get through everything and a timely matter what when are you thinking or when would you like to start this Venture well happen this year if it's next year I mean next year would be great which would give us you know 6 eight months here to get all you know get everything figured out to lay out what you guys would allow what you wouldn't you know things like that I mean it's not some we knew it wouldn't happen this year we knew it's not going to be a quick thing but you know we think it could be longterm viable and a good a good bit um especially where we're located right with on Lake um so future you know it would be more valuable to as far as right property taxes and um for sale at a later date too so I mean I'll bet you you've heard this it's inconsistent with the character of Lake of Lake Beach and those are the people that I've lived out there 28 and a half years Bob Bob been there for what 43 41 41 and it's just but you know that's the way people are they want they want to see what they've seen for a long time time exactly all the time we make a little tweet to the story piss off somebody because I think your story looks great yeah I think so too but there are people that still complain no I think you've done a great job with the space that you have well thank you so that's kind of where we're at so if it's something you guys would be open to you know maybe we could work more withon or whoever to what's your perspective and what what's the next step what what does who need to do to move this forward one way or the other well we need a city planner that can start doing some research on what other cities have done well in the meantime you're the city planner so now I'm going to have to I'll have to do some research and see what other cities have done obviously Cabin Country Lakes up north brainer um they've they've obviously accomplished this in some form or fashion um but I'm going to tell you it's going to take an extensive overhaul or a complete rewrite or a write of a section for short-term rental and how we can even make that accomplished based on one case with a city planner with with or without a city planner based on one case of less than a quarter acre or quarter acre piece of property so are there State statutes that would apply yes and that has to do with uh lodging tax well what anything as far as being within the thousand feet from the lake it's sherland Overland District 25% coverage there's a lot of a lot of questions that would have to be answered based on what their proposal might be okay well guys we're going to have to button it up pretty quick just one last statement writing this uh we it wouldn't just be app applicable to you it has to be Universal over the entire city that's one of the hard Parts about writing code right I get that and I just didn't know if it could be switch from B1 limited to recreational it it wouldn't matter which zoning it would matter that's what I that's what we're here for yeah you're feeling it out we get it one last question is it more feasible to talk about a gange for a single family dwelling there if you wanted to put a personal house there I would think yes that's a much easier process process for you yeah one minute I asked for a list of what's allowed in B1 and it was like three things and N of them are feasible for that corner yeah so I think it's great that you're expanding or want to expand your business thank you all right we appreciate it thank you appreciate your time being said I'm Mo to adjourn yeah we'll adjourn the work meeting and get ready for the regular city council meeting