##VIDEO ID:5FfVNduIsUc## we'll call the meeting to order and um I did forget to mention beforehand if you're going to come up to the podium to speak today could you please put your name and address phone number up on the sheet right there on that little desk by eron okay it's just for the minutes so that we know who's here so the meeting is called to order do we have a motion to adopt the agenda so moved is there a second I'll second all in favor say i i i opposed that passes and councilman Smith I think you're going to give us an update please Commissioners hello Jim Smith East bethl city council we don't have a lot going but uh October 28th our meeting we did the uh variance for Filmore Street we approved that and the variance for uh on 239th we also approved that one last night we had a closed session on uh the 360 review on the uh City administrator so then the results of that will be at our next council meeting that's basically all I got okay so Happy Thanksgiving to all you guys and to you thank you thanks all right the next thing is the approval of minutes does anyone have any changes comments I have one you guys don't have to catch it it's under uh the members present somehow Corey jensson became the vice chair I saw that was nice congratulations maybe maybe next year foreshadowing maybe next year okay so we'll make that correction then yeah nothing else okay then is there a motion to approve the minutes as corrected so I'll make a to approve the minutes okay a second and all in favor say I I I and opposed and okay thank you was not here and that passes and then we're going to talk about the Planning Commission reappointment recommendations thank you madam chair members of the Planning Commission before we get going uh the next Planning Commission meeting will be December 17th 7 p.m. I need at least four of you here so if you can make sure that that's going to work put it in your calendar now we'll have a public hearing notice on a cannabis ordinance where we need uh to hold a public hearing what time did you say 7 P.M our regular time December 17th and I will definitely not be here okay I will all right um let's see uh Planning Commission reappointments uh consider uh recommendation uh to rea point point Sharon Johnson and Brian Downey uh to the Planning Commission Sharon Johnson has served on the planning the East bethl Planning Commission multiple terms her most recent appointment started January of 2022 and her current appointment expires January 31st of 20125 commissioner Johnson has submitted a letter of interest seeking another term which would expire on January 31st of 2028 Ryan Downey was appointed to serve a partial term on the East bethl Planning Commission which began on February 27th of 2024 and is scheduled to expire January 31st 2025 commissioner Downey has submitted a letter of interest seeking to serve another term that would expire January 31st of 2028 Planning Commission is requested to consider the approval of a recommendation to the city council to reappoint Sharon Johnson and Brian Downey to the Planning Commission for an additional term to commence February 1st 2025 and expire January 31st 2028 thank you all righty so I'm not sure how this all goes but um make it easy uh you guys have already told yourselves that you're going to come back for glut for punishment I'll make a motion to uh pass on a recommendation for approval for Sharon and Brian to be reappointed to the commission should Council have it be there will okay thank you is there a second can either of you second because this is your re appointment could you second your own we could yeah technically either way I'll second okay thank you I'm just curious thank you all right um any discussion last chance to get out if not we'll take a vote um all in favor say I I and opposed and that passes uh we do have one more uh Gabe Hansen's term is scheduled to expire uh on the same cycle he has uh requested a little bit of your time tonight if you'll notice I have not sent a uh letter of interest to continue um more or less for the reasons that I am I'm I'm starting my own business congratulations I've got several other commitments throughout the week that are weekly you know Monday night Thursday night and to continue to even if it's you know one day out of the month it you know I'm still taking time away from these other commitments not to mention my family um I have enjoyed every ounce of this surprisingly I've I've got such a uh a um laxidasical attitude in general but to come here and to be professional and to you know Express the care for the citizens and the matters that come forward and uh just to experience this side of um the Podium and to be a part of this has really been an awesome experience and for the time being I'm going to step away and that doesn't mean it's indefinite but I'm going to uh not renew my term well I want to thank you um I feel like we're kind of buddies because we were appointed for this last appoint um last term at the same time and and um I think both of us were were pretty quiet at the beginning weren we and um I really appreciated your input thank you wish you luck hope to see you back I when you're ready I expect to might be a while but I'll be back yeah thanks for seron absolutely thanks a lot and good luck to your ventes yeah thank you so so the city will advertise uh probably after the Thanksgiving holiday we'll seek uh applicants for to fill the vacancy uh and and obviously as we uh get applicants and have a deadline we'll bring them in front for interviews like we've done in the past and you all can make a recommendation on the vacancy um we will probably um wait and um bring both of the recommendations in front of the council for final approval um in case the council decides that they're not interested in one of the uh candidates who are seeking reapprovals have multiple opportunities for um interviews and appointments so we'll kind of put things in order so that it makes sense so reason so when will the deadline be for that then probably not till after the first of the year uh we would probably do interviews the January meeting okay uh since the term does expire in January and we would have wouldn't be enough time for the December 17th right after the question on the two yep so okay yep thank you that makes me sad I know it's it's not been easy to you know when Aon messaged me it was like you know I want to say yes but it's like you know to say you know yes to this is saying no to some of the other things that I'm really really being called to pursue right now so there will be another time yeah for sure good luck okay so we will keep on going the next thing is going to be our public hearings there's a setback variance and Aon is going to talk about that one yeah thank you again Madam chair members of the Planning Commission on October 3rd 2024 the city received an application from sharper Homes Incorporated to reduce a standard setback from 10 feet to 8 feet in the front yard for the installation of a septic drain field and a setback reduction from the ordinary high water level of 75 ft to 61.5 Ft for the construction of an attached patio cement slab at a new property located at 3564 Edmar Lane Northeast this is a 64 acre lot which is in the Lake zoning district and is covered by a shorel overlay Zone not only does this lot have Shoreland but it also includes a section of wetlands in addition the land immediately adjacent to the uh to the east is city-owned and contains a lowland with an open drainage ditch that runs parallel to the lot line these features create quite a list of setbacks that must be met sharper Homes Incorporated is proposing a slab on grade home with the placement that takes into consideration all the setbacks however to place a septic system uh and well on the property and encroachment into the property line setback would be necessary a setback reduction from the required 10 feet to 8 feet would be needed for the installation of a drain field in the front yard of this property setbacks for drain fields are established by city code uh which adopts Minnesota State Statute under the Minnesota rules um it is noted that if there's an infringement on a property line it must be made through an accepted local variance procedure section 575 has a list of definitions that include setback and structure uh a setback is a minimum horizontal distance between a structure sewage system or other facility from an ordinary high water level top of a Bluff Road Highway property line or other facility the definition is clear that a setback is between the ordinary high water level and a structure uh in this case a structure is defined as any building or I'm going to butcher the word uh a pertinence including decks exceptional except are aerial or underground utility lines such as sewer Electric telephone Telegraph gas lines Telegraph that's interesting that needs to expire Towers poles or other supporting facilities this def definition is clear as to what is and what is not a structure and a pertinence which is also not defined in East bethl city code has a general definition as an accessory to or permanent or and permanent excuse me section 57 requires a 75 ft setback from an ordinary high water level the proposed house placement has the back wall of the house at or near the setback line the proposed structure also includes a 14x 20t concrete patio slab which is attached to the back of the house protruding towards the lake into the ordinary high water level setback sharper Homes Incorporated is requesting the reduction of the 75t setback to 61.5 Ft it is the opinion of City staff that the proposed concrete patio lab attached to the house is an a pertinence to hear requests um for variances from the literal provisions of the ordinance in instances where their strict enforcement would cause practical difficulties because of the circumstances unique to the individual property under consideration and to Grant such variances only when it is demonstrated that such actions will be in keeping with the spirit or the intent of the ordinances economic considerations alone do not con con constitute a practical difficulty a consideration of a variance requires the following three Factor test the first factor is a test of reasonableness which means that the landowner would likely use the property in a way practical but cannot do so under the rules of the ordinance in this case septic systems are required for homes to be considered habitable the approval of this variance would allow this property to be used as a new residence the second factor is a test of uniqueness the issue for the variance is due to circumstances unique to the property and not caused by the land owner the uniqueness generally relates to physical characteristics of a particular piece of property in this current in this case current setback requirements for sewage treatment systems are 50 ft from an ordinary high water level 50 ft from any well 20 ft from any structure and 10 ft from any property line tanks are required to be placed 10 ft from any structure and 10 ft from any property line the adjacent property contains wetlands and a ditch which require a 25t setback Shoreland setback for structures are 75 ft from the ordinary high water level 25 ft from any front lot line and 7 feet from any side lines the third factor is that this variance would not alter the essential character of the neighborhood this factor is used to consider whether the resulting structure or Improvement would be out of scale out of place or otherwise inconsistent with the surrounding area in this case there are nine other properties on edmm Marlan that have septic Mounds in the front yard or side yards that are visible from the right away the adjacent property to the West also has a box mound in the sidey yard which is visible from the right away a patio slab is not a minimum building requirement of a new single family home in the East bethl Building Code this amenity is a personal preference to the land owner the elevation of the ordinary high water level is 94.8 ft above sea level while the elevation of the proposed slab extension is 99.0 Ft this is over 4T of elevation drop over a 75 ft distance the risk of damage by changing Lake water levels in this case is minimal for additional consideration the Shoreland overlay District permits Property Owners 25% impervious surface lot coverage the total square footage of this proposed build including the patio slab is 21% staff recommends that the Planning Commission hold a public hearing and make a recommendation regarding the variance request for the reduction of the property line setback for the installation of a sewage treatment system and a reduction of the ordinary high water level setback for the construction of an attached cement patio slab at the property located at the new address of 3564 EDM Marlan Northeast thank you so we're going to open the public hearing now and usually um I'd like anybody who is not the principal um from sharper homes if anybody has anything that they'd like to say please come up to the podium and if not do we have someone here from sharper homes okay if you could please come up um if you have anything that you'd like to say to us do you want to open and close the public hearing I did open it oh okay I didn't I did I okay thank you so then we will close the public hearing and we'll have some discussion well um you know it seems like there's an open space in a obvious Lake Community there um I I I see it if if being anything it's going to be a residential and to do that these variances would have to be recommended for approval removal um in that the lot the lot next to it and eight other ones do have visible um what was it septic Mounds um I think the SE septic system should be you know I mean considered I mean in order for it to be a residential lot they obviously need to have a septic system as far as the patio goes um you know just looking at the drawing here and at the aerial view uh you know it's it's not in it's not going past the 25% in pervious surface um it's 14 by 20 is not that big it's I guess I haven't really seen or heard much about um ordinary high water lines uh slipping or causing destruction to any uh residences here in the area so I don't think that's something that would be you know uh something to consider heavily um I see reason to approve this variance or to recommend Council to approve it I should say um with the 75 foot foot um setback from the the water line does the DNR have to get involved with that so the DNR was mailed a public hearing notice uh both electronic Ally and a physical letter and I've got zero response is it possible that it comes later you know after the recommendation let's say we did um recommend approval and the city council did approve it could it come back later and my experience has been the DNR responds typically the day before the public hearing to ask questions if they have any question about what's being proposed or if they want to clarify some details uh I've not had an experience where they've come back after the fact uh and made a recommendation okay and we're not obligated to make sure that they give us a recommendation we're only obligated to provide them a notice the septic Sy system for me is um not an issue at all I do have an issue with the patio going back into that setback um I think we had a really similar one recently didn't we a few months ago where they want what was the swimming pool swimming pool right yeah we had to have pull it back in I think we just we Deni that for a very similar reason that was cutting into the where the shoreline was going to be if this was an imp um perious like like some sort of pet rock or something patio would that change the need for a variance yes if it wasn't a permanent concrete patio slab or whatever that term is that I provided something um then I would say that it wouldn't even be necessary to be talked about however if this is a permanent slab attached to the foundation of a structure that is in the ground uh I think it meets the definition MH because if if you look at the um the aerial map you know there's a couple what looks like to the West they've got I don't know if that's that doesn't look to be impervious um yeah that's a possibility that's also a possibility that those are existing non-conforming structures that came before an ordinance existed and have just all been allowed to be maintained I don't know specifically about those properties but what I do know is what's on the book today and this is a new application that has to meet today's standard so the only way to get around it is to approve a variance to the standard where will the well go um I was trying to find that earlier today on the drawing it would have to be 50 ft from uh the septic mound so I would probably look off somewhere in here uh maybe is it Jesse maybe you can answer yeah somewhere in here next to the garage then yeah side yard side so it meets the setback from the property line and the building 3 ft is required for a well from the side line Y and yeah and what are you thinking I don't think it changes the essential character of the neighborhood it all sounds reasonable um if there's no way to make the septic work without going into there then it's somewhat of a necessity the concrete patio I could go either way I mean you want to go by the variance rules it can't be something that's created by created by the owner they can choose not to have it so therefore I could make an argument that not to approve the septic but not the patio at the end of the day like I said it's not changing Central character of the neighborhood the high water line you know it's got a bit of a drop off so not a problem either I could go either way on there if you'll notice I didn't provide a resolution example for you because there are two issues here and I don't know how you would uh feel on either one of them so once you make a recommendation I will generate a resolution most appropriate to what your recommendation is for the council consideration actually on both of our items today so clear recommendations guys that's what I need well we could do a um a motion that that has both of them in couldn't we or two separate ones you can include it in one motion but yeah if it were your wishes to allow One V for the variance for one item but not the other then that helps me draft a resolution as well so I don't I don't take issue with either request you know the setback decrease by 2 feet is necessary and you know I don't see I see anything harmful other than you know the fact that it encroaches in that 75 ft setback for the concrete patio the house is 2 ft away from it so you either have a 2ft patio or something that's rock that you're going to replace every you know 3 years or whatever depending on what kind of use you're getting out of it I'd imagine they're considering a fair amount of use on it hence going with something more permanent so I think uh I think it seems practical to me their request and it's just have to ask for the variants to make it happen so any other discussion any motions I would make a motion to pass it with both variances okay is there a second I'll second okay any more discussion okay all in favor of the motion to recommend approval of both um aspects of that variance say I I I and opposed so that passes December 9th will be uh included in the uh city council um agenda for final approval thank you for this next item just a heads up I I plan I plan to be a part of discussion but I will abstain from voting just as this is a relative excellent okay so Aon if you could talk about the VAR for the driveway and access to get uh an aerial here for you maybe if I can get my computer to work the way I wanted to today all right thank you again uh Madam chair members of the Planning Commission on October 29th 2024 the city of East bethl received a variant application from Josh Belfy the property owner of 1 19408 East Front Boulevard Northeast for the construction of a second driveway or access off of his parcel to East Front Boulevard Northeast in a Lake zoning District Mr Belfy and his brother who owns 1 1935 six and not this brother it's a different brother brother all the same acquired okay acquired a vacant parcel from family which was located between their two Parcels in a private land transaction they divided the lot and adjoined uh each portion to their respective Lots Belfy subsequently applied for an accessory structure which was permitted and the project was complete during a final inspection Belfy was informed by a building inspector that he would need to obtain a permit for a second driveway melfy indicated on his September 28th 2023 building application that there was no plans for a driveway city code does not permit more than one driveway access in certain Don zoning districts of the city uh section 10 General development regulations subsection 15 driveway access standards uh access requirements uh subsection One Properties in the R1 R2 and Lake districts are allowed one access point from the public Street um in addition all residential zoning districts driveways are uh on located on improved streets require a binous or concrete driveway extending from the street a minimum of 75 ft or to the garage apron whichever is less um this property uh the septic drain field is located on the north side of the house the well is located on the in the front yard uh forcing the placement of the detached accessory structure uh on the opposite side of the existing driveway and therefore he's unable to access the new building from the existing one access in addition to the request for a second driveway uh belfin is requesting a variance to the Improvement requirements or the paving standards as required in section 10 sub5 B2 under B3 which states that parking spaces for heavy equipment that would damage binous or concrete surfaces are exempt from the paving requirement belany owns a skid steer uh he and he intends on parking on the driveway and believes that its parking would be damaging to the PVE surface city ordinance however does not define what heavy equipment is um excuse me there are three Parcels on East Front Boulevard Northeast that appear to have second driveways a historical review of the gis aerial uh Aerials provide information that all three of those existed prior to 2008 when the ordinance revision occurred prohibiting second driveways in the Lake R1 and R2 zoning districts staff advised Belfy that the second driveway access and pavement standard requirements would be denied if applied for uh and that a variance would be required uh before either could be uh applied for or approved uh to hear requests for variances from the literal provisions of the ordinance in instances where their strict enforcement would cause practical diffic difficulties because of the circumstances unique to the individual property under consideration and to Grant such variances only when it is demonstrated that actions would be keeping with the spirit or the intent of the ordinance practical difficulties as used in connection with the granting of a variance means that the property owner proposes to use the property in a reasonable manner not permitted by official control the plight of the landowners due to circumstances unique to the property and not created by the land owner himself and the variance if granted would not alter are the essential character of the neighborhood or the locality economic considerations alone do not constitute a practical difficulty the first factor is a test of reasonableness which means that the landowner would likely use the property in a practical way but cannot do so under the rules of the ordinance it does not mean that the land could not be put to use in in a reasonable way without the variance in this case I've provided uh an alternative to an approval and a denial um uh the property owners is requesting uh access for a second driveway uh to a detached accessory structure is reasonable as adequate Ingress and egress are necessary for the structure uh to intended to store vehicles and equipment or alternatively the denial of the variants to place a second driveway on a property does not deny the land owner reasonable use of the property as detached accessory structures and subsequent access are not requirements or of development standards or of a primary residence by the East Bethal city code code second factor is that the landowner's problem is due to circumstances unique to the property and not caused by the land owner the uniqueness generally relates to the physical characteristics of a piece of property that is to the land and not the personal characteristics or preferences of the land owner in this case the property is triangular shaped limiting the buildable areas for construction the septic system drain field is located on the north side of the lot the well is located in the front yard the layout of the home placed the attached garage and existing access driveway on the north side of the house away from the newly constructed detached accessory structure the third factor is that the variants would not alter the essential character of the neighborhood this factor is used to consider whether the resulting structure would be out of scale out of place or otherwise inconsistent with surrounding areas in this case there are three Parcels uh with existing non-conforming second driveways on East Front Boulevard or alternatively properties in the R1 R2 and Lake districts are not are only allowed one access from the public Street in this case it is the opinion of City staff that this variance request partially meets the standards under the Practical difficulties test for additional considerations belin's lot is in a Shoreland overly District which has a maximum allowable impervious surface coverage of 25% belin's lot based on acreage would permit him to cover 5,445 sare ft the existing coverage on the lot including the newly constructed detached accessory building is 4,335 Ft providing for an additional estimated 1,110 Square ft of allowable coverage driveways are required to be a minimum of 12 ft wide but cannot exceed 24 ft in width at the union of the RightWay pavement based on the minimum Paving length standards and a 12T wide driveway would add an additional 650 Square ft a 24t wide driveway would add an additional 1300 Square ft which would exceed the impervious surface coverage allowed um I did provide uh you the Shoreland overlay District definitions of what impervious surface is the lot area the area of a lot above the ordinary high water level covered with buildings including all apperences driveways sidewalks and a similar impervious materials for the purpose of this section driveways that have a gravel base shall be considered impervious Decks that allow drainage through the decking that do not have plastic weed barrier or some kind of material would impede drainage into the ground and swimming pools do not constitute impervious surface City staff is requesting that the Planning Commission hold a public hearing and make a recommendation to the city council for the placement of a second driveway and to the driveway and access standards of Paving as required by section 10 sub5 on a parcel located at 1948 408 East Front Boulevard Northeast thank you that was a lot of information drink up you burned it yeah okay we're going to open the public hearing on this and Mr belony would you like to come to the podium to say anything don't so if you could just state your name please and your address for the record Josh Belfy 19408 East Front Boulevard East bethl um yeah basically as far as the second driveway goes you know there's three on this street I think there's another two or three around the next street kind in the same neighborhood so I feel like it's not really in the look of the neighborhood um and as far as you know not doing the the what you call it hard surface or Paving um yeah running the Bobcat on there it's 10,000 plus pounds I feel like it's going to crack concrete it's going to screw up tar that I do in the summer it's just going to I feel like it's just going to wreck a hard paav service so so I'd like to do some kind of millings or something like that that I can if it does kind of get you know beat up a little bit I can always fix that so that's about all I got do you have a business that you use the Bobcat on or no I just kind of have one I used up in my cabin and so it kind of just stays there but I have stuff I move around stuff like that but no I don't use it for business reasons okay can you just point there on the on the screen where you're going to be putting it the driveway the driveway y approved yeah you're probably pretty close right there I think I have that to straight out from the garage essentially I have a site plan that you provided as as far as millings do you mean like something like class 5 something like that no or like Crush t Okay as far as like a Milling for like a recycled as maybe you call it yep makes it more perious and yeah it would also make it perious it would let it drain sure is class five technically have a gravel base class 5 gravel would be considered in on the recycled asphalt millings different because they're not roll they're not rolled and packed down okay that's part of the the variance for the variance request piece on it is that because otherwise if you put down the recycle then you go back and hot roll it down and packs it down that that it's the true asphall but then you drive over that it cracks so the millings the idea behind it crack if I'm wrong as the millings even with the heavy equipment on it if it was to sh shift or separate just go push it back in right with set equipment okay in fact as you're parking just drag it again right yeah um we put a very similar surface um on the farm this summer uh with Milling or recycled asphalt I guess it is and uh we we do Drive the tractors on it and it's that's fine um as whether it's impervious or not I don't know it's kind of sloped um most of the water kind of drains off of it um but I do have a question for you do you think it would be impervious if he had the the um millings um yes if you put a gravel base and you put in millings on top of it and you drive over it it's going to compact over time and become impervious in my opinion if it had a gravel base if it has a gravel base I don't know if you're going to pour asphalt millings down right on a sand or um uh right over grass and compact those down enough to make an actual driveway so I don't know what the intent is for construction and I'm not a um asphalt uh expert I just know what the code says about the gravel base MH so what what do you plan to yeah I didn't plan on putting a gravel down it's just basically Sugar Sand right now so I just have it graded out uh to where I just put the millings right over the top of that and I feel like if it did get driven over enough to where it was getting compact millings are something you can rework up to where you could turn it perious again so is this something that's even considered a driveway it like that was that was kind of my I wasn't sure whether I need to do that or not either okay so so our um code doesn't different differentiate between driveway or access sure okay so is this is this an access to the lot a second access it calls it a driveway access okay another question we did um something a few months ago about um a driveway that was coming off of a county road that needed to have that 75 foot um impervious concrete you know bituminous yep like that doesn't apply here because it's not a County Road correct this this is the same application of the same ordinance and I can tell you that the city council excuse me um approved the variant request however they included a condition that if the road if the gravel if the road base ends up on the asphalt hard surface of the RightWay causing issues the condition could be put back on that it has to be paid right for the apron or for the whole thing just to the apron yeah which would be the whole thing here yeah in this case yeah it's more than it's more than seven or less than 75 ft so that would be the entire length of the so in here we have case of Precedence as well Y in a similar situation y however not worried so much on a county road if it's coming off and that he'd be leing it up yeah when you applied for the permit in 23 or constructed it and you said that you weren't going to have a driveway kind of what were you thinking at the time well then it was semi grass dirt it it also was kind of the access point to the lot before we bought it so I guess my reasoning was for one I didn't know what I was going to do there I was probably just going to drive on it and then um as construction kind of happened it turned more to dirt so I use the Bobcat to just drag it out flatter get rid of the ruts and stuff like that and then upon final um uh basically the the what do you call it final inspection basically the final inspection I had put boards there and did the yard up to it so my yard wasn't still dirt around and so I basically looked like I was putting a driveway in which I kind of wasn't I was just kind of creating where the yard was going to come if I was going to put millings or something in so that's kind of where it all came about so then I'm like well if I got to do all this I might as well do what I have to do and I wasn't sure if I had to get a variance for a driveway being I thought it was the access point already so I kind of just put on the application I don't know if I'm going to do a driveway or not so his his his lot is a combination correct me if I'm wrong it was two different lots for the first section and then when this one came up then it was you guys purchased it and then that became the third lot tied into yours honestly I I don't remember if it was two or if it was just one I don't remember one between us wasn't it bernstrom like mine yeah yeah your original lot was was a couple of smaller Lots across the street combined to make make a lot and then there was a third lot now added yeah and that third lot so what what Aon didn't say although Josh to the north Jeremy to the South our grandparents are on the Lake side of it this was their lot and that act that's so if you go back to the aerial image you'll see amidst the lot just to the south of it the darker shaded spot is a is a detached accessory structure y that was already on that lot before it was obviously combined and split between the two so at one point there always was just access and that was always the conversation of why would I need a driveway if we already have an access point on the lot so and now here we are it looks like you got the bigger portion of the split there yeah I I did that so I could get up to the half acre nice enough to say okay we'll get to the half acre so I can build a certain size access structure how often do you think there'll be Vehicles going across this access point then um I don't know I haven't parked in the garage yet so I don't know we do Park trailer my trailer there once in a while I have a camper that I pull in and out um I parked the boat in there so as far as Everyday Use Maybe I mean if I get the driveway in there and start doing it that way but that you'd be parking car in there maybe just my truck yeah okay as far as coming in and out once a day twice a day does anyone else have any questions for Mr Belfy do you two get along uh didn't us to we do now yes there four of us tonight we'll decide okay surprising thank you thank you so I'll close the public hearing now and is there any discussion uh I guess I'm if First Responders need to make access to this accessory structure um but I'm I'm looking at it I think I'm underestimating the the scale of this from the corner of that accessory structure to the road what is that 50 feet 50t yep so yeah that's that's really close um yeah then as far as the millions thing I guess I'm new to that U would that go all the way up to the right away then I mean I think so if the apron variance is um goes forward um that would just be this uh access material all the way up to the right ofo then it sounds like under conditional approval it would be need to be maintained and if it wasn't then um steps could be taken to to change that but that's just what it is it's just a a pouring a special dirt speci ground up Asphalt so when they peel off the highway the first couple inches to redo the surface of the road that you drive on every day they turn that ground up Asphalt into something they can turn around and sell that could spread out and leveled and driven over and then they just yeah they just have a real heavy roller and and roll it so there's no um heat treatment and you don't have to seal coat it well that that's one way you can the way you're describing it what he just to jump in here what he's describing is putting it down and just not even compacting it it's more just running it smooth with said said skider take the bucket make a nice flatter area so that way it's not hard pack and then it does create that verbus yeah I I would think that it would to break up in fact if you ever want to come and look at it you can add our place it it compacts hard it does just driving on it it comp packs hard that's why it works out to be a wonderful base so I'm are you done right yeah I'm all for the second access I mean he's got a great Garage in and out but I want pavement at least at the roadway like I've said I've made my stance clear before I think he deserves an access the driveway but minimum 20 ft of impervious at the road because the bottom line is when you have a dirt asphalt grounds anything tires track rocks into the road rocks get picked up by tires they get on the 50 mph Road they get thrown and they break windshields so I I mean drive through my neighborhood and look at the people who have dirt driveways there's LS and rocks in the road from there and so I'm all for it for the driveway because I think you know he needs it and I don't have a problem with that but the tracking happens with material that isn't impervious that's my two sons any discussion over here um you know I think about again that last driveway we talked about way back right on Durant it was you know when we were you know in favor of it being the impervious the concrete for the 75 ft and that got overturned you know um with the condition of it causing any issue which you know really how do you track that you know who's who's calling to say hey a rock flew up on my windshield and it was from this driveway you know so it's like the condition is just a wash really so you know yes I I at the same time though you know he's got what there now you know used to be a driveway of some sort a dirt driveway and he's going to be throwing yes rocks on there with a skid loader that's going to definitely move them you know it's it's not going to be maybe it ends up in the road it's going to be when you know so what can we do to prevent that you know 20 ft of impervious and then 30 of not seems like you know it seems almost silly going half the way but yeah I'm not sure I'm entirely opposed to it it's a slower Road you know I don't know I don't know how far it is from a County Road or anything that is substantial in speed that's far far enough away anything from there is not going to track out to Viking right Viking yeah I was going to say is that that's not a a highspeed corner there is it if anything we ask we we do what we can to tell people to slow down in that I'm I'm also in this neighborhood on the north end but no that's that's always been a it's a pretty blind corner so um to answer the question on access I mean historically all I can look back to is 2008 uh I can take you through the history the just as a piece of mind this is the new location here this was the breakup of the Lots as we talked about before you can see the darker darker color opposed to the greener grass around it mhm I don't know if we would necessarily consider it an access but um right you can see historically over time it's been increasingly used as uh an access until today we also don't require uh accesses be paved to vacant Lots uh only when a structure or a residence is built on it we then require one year after that if they're permitted in the zoning District so in the past it wouldn't have even been granted an access it would have just been probably driven off of the uh right of way onto the grass onto the lot does anyone want to make a motion on this I do kind of want to say too you know if we did say you know you have to do concrete and as he's he's as he's using it like he said he was tearing it up with you know a skid loader I mean eventually it's going to you know break up you know maybe at the corners or something I don't know exactly how much a you know 4 inch thick slab of concrete can withstand but you know I don't doubt that it'll break up at some point the road right you know you know a little a little more longevity or a lot more I mean I don't I'm not heavily opposed to it based on where it sits you know if it were back to the county road where you know right there where they're sitting people are flying by at 55 60 M an hour and it's an immediate Hazard I can see that but I don't have a huge concern for this lot right here so it doesn't sound like there's a lot of opposition if somebody would want to make a motion um and maybe make a recommendation about the the surface also in that that's mine okay I'll make a motion to recommend approval for the driveway and do you want to include any recommendations about the surface that it does not need to be paved or meaning the hard right right right right right uh impervious or otherwise okay I mean it's still you know up to Josh's discretion okay you know so then the motion that hasn't been seconded yet is that you recommend approval of this variance um with the surface to be up to the discretion of the owner yes okay is there a second I'll second the motion thank you any more discussion Corey you're looking I'm just like I say I have a different feeling about it and even like that other one to me it was more rural you know than this is this is a residential neighborhood drive down the street there's driveways every so it's just my feelings and I've been around this type of construction a lot of years and I I feel differently too about if you build it right the Bobcat's not going to tear it up I mean I how many businesses have black top in their yards how many bobcats are spun around I couldn't tell you how many times I turned a bobcat around on black top in my career and so I I get it I mean but uh that's just my feelings okay for what it's worth just in that same double-edged sword then by your earlier comment as well the heavy equipment would pack it down over time to prevent some of the issues you were describing as well so kind of a best of all cases here because if it does pack down and it needed to be re up can be done or if it is at that access point it would also prevent by I mean I I went past the place you know it's a beautiful house the edition's nice you know it well to me that's where I'm like I would if it was mine I'd build a nice driveway to it because it to fit the rest of the house and to me leaving it gravel or you know reclaim or whatever you want to call it reg grind it's it's not finishing it to me so um all of those things and then like I say that's just the way I feel and I think a lot of that was to also help create the perious surface piece of it to have the space to be able to have the access to get on and off being at the corner there yeah so that was the other reason I believe he was saying for it because if if it was imper impervious he'd be over his um lot along no he's got room he's got 1100 uh square feet yet I think his proposal is only 1,000 square feet so he's still got 100 uh extra square feet of room if it were impervious surface okay Okay so we've got a motion in a second that's open right now any more discussion then I think we'll take a vote so all in favor say I I and opposed I abstain and that um passes with a a 3 to1 I to n ratio December 9th all right Council okay thank you gentlemen and I think we have time to adjourn does adj second second the mo okay great thank you uh all in favor of AD joury say I I and oppose that passes all righty thanks