##VIDEO ID:NYf9_IWCRPo## good evening and welcome to the November 26 2024 meeting of the esa Meadow Town Council I'll call the meeting to order and ask that we stand for the pledge of allegiance aliance to the FL to the flaged and I'll also ask that we take a moment of silence reflect on all of the events going on both abroad and at home and to uh wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving as well thank you and Accord law this being is being recorded by elcat and I would ask if there's anyone else in the audience if you could identify yourself and reminder publishing great thank you and then we also have two counselors attending remote this evening T and Kathy Hill and the wer in person moving along we will go to public comments is there anyone that would like to make a public comment none online Jam J no okay and no one in the audience Council comments is there any counselor with a comment okay saying none we will move to town manager's report hi Tom hi good evening everyone Hi um so attached to the report here are the uh project reports for nove weeks of the November 4th and 11th for the high school um obviously the weather's helped and we are cruising along very good um Friday the 22nd we had a uh groundbreaking ceremony at the high school well attended um Steve cruel the building committee chair was the master of ceremony so so to speak at least uh moving us speakers along in an early fashion um remarks from superintendent Smith Antonella relle of the school committee Brian Ash uh principal Frank pagee and the class presidents of the freshman and sophomore classes which was pretty cool that's they'll be the first who graduated in the new school um was a little rainy and chilly but uh everybody was very excited and end up being uh a really nice ceremony um we met uh last week uh with Rob wiill um a bunch of the department heads to talk about the uh Adu bylaw um DPW police fire manager's office NH HR also uh as the Ada coordinator to make sure um we had we had covered what we needed to cover from the regul regulatory standpoint um so the first public hearing of this new bylaw is at the December 3D planning board meeting um so again this is sort of one of those um I don't want to say Town altering but uh certainly um impactful uh to every residential zone so I uh strongly urge uh the public to come and and join in in the conversation um CPC uh met November 14th uh they reviewed applications submitted for the November 1st deadline uh four projects uh excuse me were approved to recommend to to this body uh for final approval there was a Structure analysis of The Barn at brown farm uh restoration of the Town Bell uh supplies for painting and restoration of pine pool U and an engineering uh and drainage report for uh Centerfield um we uh got a this is uh off uh Off Script here excuse me we got an email today from the Department of agricultural resources um they've detected a uh invasive spotted Lantern fly at Heritage Park um so I I won't get into the details too much but uh obviously this is an invasive insect uh it's it's it's it's been around but now we have it on our property so uh basically I I have Joe U Jesse looking into the language but we're going to allow D or or or the department of agricultural resour resources and whoever their vendor is on site to see if uh there's anything they can be done to sort of remove the species um which again still gathering information we got this today um you know the the lantern flies not poisonous or deadly or anything like that uh it's just uh it it reeks havoc on a certain species of trees and C so uh something to just uh keep in mind um uh lastly uh I just wanted to being Thanksgiving uh week I just wanted to thank the council um all the staff um and and the residents of town for for all the support um and you know I just uh I'm I'm thankful for all of you uh and I'm thankful to be uh sharing this time and space with you all um and I hope everybody has a healthy and happy Thanksgiving thank you Tom thank you um upcoming events planning board Tuesday the 3 uh 6 pm here at the Council on Aging coffee with the town manager Wednesday December 4th crowd's getting a little lean you need a little uh need a little support that's 10:30 a.m. at the COA um and we'll have a center Town District steering committee meeting Thursday the 12th um 6m here at the at the COA all we got okay I got it I'll answer any questions you have except for about the spotted Lantern uh we'll have more information as it develops obviously do anyone have any questions for Tom yes through the chair sure restoration of the pineal pool it's not very old yeah understand the painting but restoration well I don't think it's so much restoration as sort of Maintenance and upkeep of uh you know any repairs that have to be made before it's painted right can't use the word maintenance right well it is a he's coming we will have our chance at death can have your yeah you'll have your full conversation right these some of these points were brought up at their meeting so I'm sure their chair will uh iterate that to you and are they on a re sorry um through the chair is the recck committee on a revolving fund because I know there's fees and all for using the pool and I would think I would hope that some of the fees would help cover costs of up pool but I don't know if on a revolving fund or if each year the money gets turned back to the town and then it would be up to the town to spend the money on painting a pool yeah so uh This was done six years ago maybe seven years ago painted um for about $117,000 uh and we got a quote this year for 85 thousand yes uh so that's what I was believe I believe uh Bruce Bruce's quote was uh I'll have my guys paint the bull before we pay 85,000 to paint the pool so we got the supplies for the pool which was not in the budget um uh from CPC obviously the pools of community preservation asset because right it was built with CPC funds so even maintenance is allowed there's really nothing you can't do to a CPC asset with CPC money um so um yeah so that that's what the town's going to end up painting the pool with supplies that we buy okay was just a sort of sticker shock um when we got the first quote I'm in the wrong business my only question you don't pay for bailing my only question Thomas uh so there was that November 1st deadline uh for CPC applications is there an upcoming deadline in yes April uh April 1 and it's usually October 1st um they had a new chair and we were trying to uh square away the finances of the CPC meaning what projects were still open in munis and if we could just clean up the process a little bit and so they elected to just push that uh to November 1 to give everybody a little more time to to get settled but yes every October 1st and April 1st is the application deadline for CPC great thank you got it any other questions for Tom okay seeing none Communications correspondence and announcements the only thing I had was just echoing the sentiment about the high school groundbreaking ceremony and it's nice to see the project coming along um also thanks to Greg Thompson after the ceremony was done he took me on a tour out back to be able to see the progress that they've made in person which is pretty cool because we see the pictures in your report but it puts it in perspective when you see the concrete there and you're like oh that's how big it's going to be yeah right that's all I had for that we have no public hearings tonight so orders of the day licensing matters we have for alteration of premises to allow outdoor service of alcoholic beverages for Barrera Incorporated doing business as Maan Mexican Grill at 621 North Main Street all right is the applicant here can I hear you if you could come forward to the tables if you could just state your name for the record uh Elder Martinez and Louis poo great could you give us a brief overview of your application and what you're asking for um we just believe it's just a renewal for the license of liquor liquor license so we could just keep selling liquor and with the new name cuz I believe it was Doritos Mexican restaurant before yeah which we previously addressed that um at a different meeting I think tonight you were asking for um like extending the service onto the oh the patio sorry yeah I for sorry yeah um cuz I believe we got the pro to used to deck well we didn't get the pro to you um uh serve food or alcohol outside um so we are approv for that now right that's what you're in front of us for tonight okay okay okay all right yeah so um it's I believe we got the pro for April to October I think and you know we just want to lot of people like to drink they want to enjoy the out viws you know so have warm weather so just people enjoy just you know drinking outside you know great does anyone have any questions so I don't have questions I have a couple comments sure um one I had the opportunity to look through the planning board special per I thought it was great that they've suggested to cut some uh trees some greenage around it just to help not only with the noise but visual uh impact um like I said I had no issues whatsoever with the planning board um what I have uh or what I do understand is that at this time there's no entertainment license for this restaurant which means no music or any type of entertainment live music right live music so um the miachi or anything like that's not allowed until you come back and apply for an entertainment license and I just wanted to make sure that was understood we need an entertainment license to have like a live Mari com yes yes all right well we will get that done then um other than that I I had no issues with it anyone else have any questions anything from Kathy or John just I'm good okay great in that case I'll entertain a motion I move to approve the alteration of premise application to allow outdoor service of alcoholic beverages for Barrera Incorporated doing business as mazatan Mexican Grill and Bar 621 North Main Street second motion's been made and seconded is there any further discussion good seeing none this is a roll call vote since we have uh remote members Jim uh yes Anna yes I am a yes Marilyn yes Ralph yes John I'm a yes and Kathy yes okay the motion passes unanimously thank you guys welcome thank you guys Happy Thanksgiving you to you too and next we have 8B financial matters we have a transfer of 7,9 the impact of collecting collective bargaining for if this was the carryover from our last meeting when we authorized the town manager to complete the uh lease contract correct is there any other details other than the number Tom or S yeah not I mean not specifically I think the the the motion language slash agenda item is vague because there's multiple salary items that the money's going into right so um everything's Broken Out In Their in their budget Quinn longevity overtime full-time salary like they have there's a whole lot of buckets that this m money will end up in um based on the the new contract great is there any questions okay I'll entertain a motion so I make a motion to appropriate 7 8,977 from free cash to the police general fund budget to fund the impact of collective bargaining for the police Union contract second I'll second that motion's been made second it and third it any further discussion all right seeing none Jim yes Anna yes I'm a yes Marilyn yes Ralph yes John I'm a yes and Kathy yes great the motion passes unanimously thank you thank you time next we have approval of minutes the November 12th meeting I make a motion to approve the November 12th 2024 Open Session meetings second motion's been made and seconded any further discussion seeing none Jim yes Anna yes yes Marilyn yes Ralph yes John I'm a yes Kath yes okay great next under old business we have discussion a proposed bylaw Amendment regarding recreational marijuana if you're here yeah you can come on for hello everyone there Hi how are you you could both just state your name and address for the record Christina Brooks 56 Woodbridge n Jeffrey Brook stay so at this time if you'd like to provide a brief overview of what you're looking to do I know you spoke before us before but that was a couple months ago so if you want to refresh everyone yes yes absolutely um so what we're looking to do is open an adult use dispensary in East Long Meadow um that would be located in the industrial part of Shaker Road staying away from the rotary to not congest it um and stay away from you know any the churches and schools and we know that children congregate there so a little bit more up on the road where there is a good amount of traffic and parking um to mitigate any you know congestion that might happen um so we're looking to have an adult use dispensary to be able to provide consumption and safe access to cannabis to those who are you know in this whether it be you know East Long Meadow Long Meadow wilam that are currently driving about 20 minutes out to purchase products and you know bringing the revenue to town he great as a some other context you had provided um some proposed bylaw amendments to our Town's bylaws that we have um in the spirit of the charter all I did was take that informat in the form necessary for adoption so that it was something that we could consider um I think there's a few different questions and tasks before us um on how to proceed um one in no particular order one of them is just first the council deciding if this is something that we even want to move forward with um then if we do there's probably more amendments that would be needed to the different bylaws um as I read what we had so far especially like in chapter 360 and some others a lot of it was crafted around the medical marijuana use that is allowed um because that was something that had to be allowed Statewide um I think that was back in like 2012 or so in that time frame um and at the time when the town instituted the prohibition we just sort of added that language in there kind of tacking it on but I think if we were to allow it there would have to be some deliniation between metapos is recreational because a lot of our language just references the terminology that the state uses for medical but that doesn't synonymously apply here I think those are the first two questions then I think the Third Marilyn put up some interesting research I don't know if you want to speak to that sure um I got into the weeds no pun okay not wait for this meeting when I looked at the backup do and kept singing through my head the town has voted on this the town has voted on this and I did a lot of research I tried to find I thought it was town meeting and I tried to find the town meeting information that would support that and I couldn't find it so I ended up in the clerk's office looking through documents trying to find out when bylaws were passed couldn't find that information either and so with discussion from a very friendly person there was thoughts that possibly this was a ballot question so we searched through our history of Elections and on June the 6th 2017 the the Community voted to not allow a recreational marijuana in town um I bring that up because we're talking about changing a bylaw and I need some help with this from a legal perspective but I don't believe that we as a as a council can change a ballot vote by simply readjusting the um the bylaw language went to the computer all you have to Google is marijuana East Meadow I couldn't believe the articles that came up I got more information from the computer than I my own but I learned that in April of 2017 the council voted unanimously to put this question on the ballot based on an initiate initiative that was um supported and and sort of directed from our Board of Health and the issue that they were mostly concerned about was the Edibles and our our children and they even had a public forum to educate the community about this concern and so that happened um the vote took place um overwhelming and you know to not permit re retail and then in November the bylaw was crafted by the planning board so it was a good education for me to go through and and find all this stuff and understand how the the process evolved the question is where do we go from here right yeah I think that's definitely a a great question and even some additional context too um when it was a Statewide ballot question I think it was bot question four back in 2016 to whether it was going to be you know legalized Statewide not just any song not that one was a no 55% even though passed like Statewide and that was the only reason that our town was able to have that subsequent ballot question the following year because state law ended up saying that if you had you know more of your town vote no then you could optionally prohibit it but any other community ones that we see around us that have these dispensaries already it was because they already overwhelmingly voted yes on the first question so they weren't allowed to prohibit it uh subsequently but that does raise an interesting question as to what the process could be going forward I don't personally think that we have enough information at this time to move forward in any particular direction other than seeking guidance from our town legal council if that's something we could do Tom yeah uh certainly uh we could ask that question um I had talked about this briefly with with somebody too and and you know it seems to me that they're they the the chapter 360 right is we could change it without a ballot vote because bylaw processes laid out into the charter and not everything has to go to the ballot right um I realized that we did because of what happened in 16 right and so well right whatever the state vote was and then we voted to and then put this by lion but I I I I I wonder if uh if if if you'd need to if you wanted to change it would you have to go back to the ballot because we have a bylaw process which you wouldn't necessarily have to go back to the ballot I would certainly question whether or not you'd want to spend the time and money and resources when you've already voted on this a couple of times and it seems like people don't want it is the only thing I would say to that but I can certainly ask Jesse what the legal Avenue is preferred um and and we can we can go that route I I I have no problem sending that email to Jesse if that's what if that's what you mean right you're basically the question is because of this vote that we took on the ballot can we change a bylaw with our regular process or do we have to go back to the ballot right right right so chair sure so from what I understand from the research I've done is that ballot question was a binding question um okay where if it wasn't binding then I believe the council would have the option of yes or no okay um that that's the way I've interpreted the readings that I found um Jesse would definitely be able to help out with that um because I am not an attorney and I don't get paid like an attorney um but I'm pretty sure because we did it as a binding ballot question we have to go back to the ballot and I will be truthful I would not be comfortable changing without hearing from the voters I it was um 14 almost, 1500 I think um against doing it and I think it was like 4004 um if it was close and you know there was only a few votes or whatever then you could say well yeah you know what things have changed a little bit it seemed pretty overwhelming um and like I said that I wouldn't be willing to entertain it um that's myself personally um obviously I'm only one of seven so that's my thoughts on it do the chair sure is there also a process to find there for citizen petition yes go that route that's what I was you know you guys were all speaking but I was working in my brain I was like hit the ground and you know and start finding out like I know I've had a few conversations in town so far and there's plenty of people that consume cannabis now you know that are older than 21 they are traveling the extra 25 30 minutes out of town every single day to make it you know just to get their recreational Cannabis where they're using it for recreational or medicinal purposes um also with that being said it seems like um you know the the town is spending quite the amount of money recently with the new schools and everything else is coming into town so there's other people that I've spoken to that you know they're afraid of taxes going up and other things increasing and you know they their ears parked up when they've heard of in of a business like this coming to town because that could limit some of those funds coming from those residential households in hering uh you know their own Pockets I think too what's really interesting as look is how far cannabis has come from 2016 to now right A lot of people were really afraid that crime was going to go up that the increase of underage use was going to go up and there has been studies in Massachusetts showing that there's actually been a decrease in you know crime where these dispens were in a decrease in uses for underage um people who were consuming a lot more education um I know Edibles is always a scary one right you hear like oh it's trick-or-treating people are scared of you know some candy or something getting in there but I can let you know that working in the industry we are are part of making sure that they're educated all the uh packaging does get approved to the Cannabis Control Commission so everything you know it's not marketed to minors it's child resistant just like you would lock up your liquor and have those conversations with your children about liquor you know you would do very similar um with cannabis and there are very strict regulations in Massachusetts making sure that when you you know come into a dispensary you have to be 21 plus you cannot enter the dispensary if you are under 21 again when you make your purchase at the register your ID is scanned again for a second time um so I think a lot of those things were kind of unknown at the beginning people were worried about what that was going to mean for their Town what would look like and seeing you know similar things happening West Springfield where there was a ban and then the council and the the mayor actually over returned it and decided not to put it on a ballot um you know people were nervous and now they opened their first dispenser in the beginning of 2024 it's been very successful um and it's also us being part of the community right making sure that there's education for you know you guys for education for the senior center education for the high school like you know what it means for consumption safe consumption you know how you have to you know kind of go about purchasing to make sure that we are getting the right demographic and and protecting our town I mean we have five kids um they all go to East Long medal schools so we understand that it's important to keep your children safe talk about them I mean people are consuming 21 plus in our community they're just not purchasing here so they're leaving and coming back so I think there is a very tasteful way to do it in our town to make it discreet and you know provide those services and make sure that it's not you know showcasing oh this is cannabis cannabis but make making it more tasteful I would agree with you that I think a lot of the perception and some of the concerns have been abated since that 2016 but also kind of agree with Ralph I'd be very hesitant to overturn a direct vote by the town yeah I think the most appropriate thing to do would be to put it back before them to see if their opinion has changed good yeah I would Echo those same sort of sentiments I I think even personally my opinion on it has changed over the years and I had some of those reservations and concerns when it was first a thing but now it seems to be even far stricter and safer than this is that you could go into a package out of the bank than it is cannabis like definitely very well maintained and actually I believe Massachusetts has done like one of the best jobs in the country when it's come to guaranteeing like it's not being promoted towards children like if you go to New York Connecticut California you go to all these other states like they it says Skittles right on the package it's highly illegal in Massachusetts there's no bright colors there's no that's not that's not part of it like it has to be directed towards adults like there might be a little fun packaging or whatever but it's nothing in comparison to what they're doing in other states because we do care about you know our children's safety here and we don't need to promote it to them there's plenty of Revenue to be made off of everyone that's 21 and older yeah so I think I would like to see the path forward that we ask our town legal council for their opinion on the right path that we have to follow okay and then deping on on the answer we get back from that if it has to be a ballot question I don't know if it's the will of the council but I'm open to entertaining us taking a vote similar to what we did in 2017 to put that on the ballot but that mean it would get passed without public Outreach in campaign yeah definitely I think it's important to do Outreach too right so people really understand the differences from then to now um and I'd want to be honest with us bringing it into town like we're here in stwn we have a we the house three years ago we're planning on staying in this town for quite a while like she said we have five kids the young eight got here school's looking really good 27 years left on the mortgage I'm not going anywhere so with that being said it's it's you know it's important for us to be you know to be a part of the town like I coached baseball last year for my son and like we want to make sure that this is something that the town is benefiting from as well as us and that's that's part of the reason why we're doing it we love what's happening in this town we see storefronts that are empty we you know we've been this industry so long we're like what what can we do to help bring money to the town well we're already part of this industry why don't we try this and um I think it's just a great place to start and if we've got to get on the ground and start a petition and see what the town really thinks in order to be able to make that happen and and then obviously hear from the legal team here to find out what needs to happen next sounds like a good plan to me any other questions or comments just a comment I think that we should thank Marilyn for looking into this getting into the week incorrectly and you know could have been your grand opening and you wouldn't have been able to surprise so yeah so thanks we got 90 seniors so good catch thank you very thank you marn we appreciate you I I had help from the clerk's office got into the computer so okay we're glad that you took the time and you know you interested enough to you know invest that time in us and see what we can move forward with so um we'll just follow up and um you guys let us know what path we go to receive an email from you or sure something yeah once we hear back from the legal council get in contact with you again thank we appreciate you guys thanksgiv happy thankgiving to you all next under old business we the discussion on the updated 382 North Main Street financing spreadsheets have anything in particular on this just other than um Tom and Kim providing the updated break down I the requests that our last meeting from a few counselors so there's any questions or comments or if there's anything that Tom wants to add to any of it well we I obviously we we added a little more information from you know our snapshot and time that we had before which um the process continues to be and and will continue to be sort of fluid in terms of um things that we thought were were going to cost money to operate the building like that's why the number is missing from the second sheet because um we don't require as many vendors as as as they did um and and so we're still sort of but we've only had one month of you know one fire alarm that's okay and somebody crashed into the front of the building no damage um no damage yeah so no no my my my point being obviously the the we don't have a whole lot of data yet right and and I think our original estimate from 2022 was just the big long list of things that we received from the then owner of the building um which you know everything down to the utility bills which once that you know when when the building is classified as a municipal space and we start sort of putting our utilities together like we do um we're not going to be paying the same rate that they paid in 2022 um or or even this year so uh that's why we sort of put this other one in here to show the fund balance as the um existing leases were collected and then came off and then the the the payment of principal and interest every year and you'll see sort of now again the that the the estimated building costs that that those will get filled up at some point uh but and as as the years KCK by here a lot of those cost are going to be town of esaw metal cost because we're going to be moving into the building right so there's they they as the tenants go away in the building right it'll it'll be the space that we occupy where you know there's already a line item for Town Hall Electric right like there're there're right you know what I'm saying so um I I I can answer any questions we just wanted to give this other one here because the the the we've been giving you this one so that's why you got this one too it's just not as much information as the new one right um sort of showing the actual balance in the in the the calculation as it goes through the 10-year note and then from from Jim's um suggestion slash request from last time you'll see the um uh the uh The Debt Service schedule for 1.9 over 10 years 3.3 over 10 years and then uh well 3.3 over 20 which I you know I I don't know that we were ever thinking about doing a 20-year note but um so we end up saving about a quarter million bucks it is the long and the short of it over the 10 year by by only borrowing 1.9 and putting the 1 point three or whatever we put in last time um we say a quart million dollar in in interest over the over the note so um but yeah any other questions or anything more specific I'll be willing to answer Andor Andor have Kim come on sure thank you um so I did notice uh the first time that we were talking about the building we had set an interest rate of 5.5 to six because we weren't quite sure and come down to four I'm assuming the four is because we're looking to tie this in with the school and get a better better rate doesn't have anything to do with um the fact that it's um what non taxable now property okay that makes a big difference then I mean two percentage points on $2 million is a good chunk of money to save um the other thing is more of a comment um you know understand that our DPW can do some of the services and all but my comment is I want to make sure that the tenants that are in the building receive at least the same level of services that they're used to if not a little bit better um like I said I think that's critical um obviously we took the building by eminent domain and I don't want them to look at it and go we're stuck with this you know when when are they going to show up the plow or um I I can't get down the walk because it hasn't been salted whatever um that's one of my concerns is just to make sure that the quality is there U maybe even you know more so than what our current town hall is um because there's still shrubs that haven't been trimmed but I won't say anything but that's the intention for the update we we we left a lot of the Y no worries we we left a lot of the things in place there there's just naturally service contracts that we already have right we have an HVAC guy we have an electrical uh we have a electrician on staff but we also have you know so we have all these relationships already it doesn't make any sense for us to sort of update right these these vendors because we'll make the call like we would at any other building when something breaks um so but yes no we are taking that seriously we we I've talked with everybody in that building um I've explained the situation to everybody in the building very transparently very honestly um what our intentions are I don't think anybody thought that Our intention was to buy the building to not move into it um so we are sort of explaining that sentiment as we go here um Jonathan's been in touch with everybody now Jonathan barels is our building maintenance supervisor uh he has so they have after hours contact okay um in in the event that something happens when somebody's there at 6 7 o'clock at night because a lot of those places are still open um but again as we move here we're going to get over to our alarm company we're GNA you know so so these things will all sort of organically happen as we as space frees up and as we uh as as the money builds up in the account all right um we can't go doing anything until we are collecting rent and then one last thing when we did the inspection in the building there were some minor things yep I remember right a door going up onto the roof needed replacement um little things like that I'm assuming we're taking that report turned it over and said hey here are some maintenance issues that we need to take care yes yep and again that process has um not been wor all the way out right like just got the building we just got new keys like it's just like a slow process and that was the point was to not exactly overburden DPW you know we have 15 other buildings in town and so um that's why we kept a lot of these things in place so that nobody was getting overburdened with a whole new building in the middle of a budget year so um but yeah we're we're the the the landlord piece we are taking very seriously thank you thanks on that front I'd be happy to see too um but thinking of the um inspection report if there were any items like in the normal you know departmental budget or something if that could be part of this upcoming year's Capital project request so most of it uh so because it was eminent domain it's sort of an Asis transaction there was no rush to fix anything that there was a you know a do not use sign on the men's bathroom Journal it's already fixed some our plumber went in there and spent 14 seconds and it's all set um so those things can probably get checked off outside of a capital budget like we're not we won't have to spend that kind of money we this is what I mean about instead of hiring someone that's not on staff for twice as much our plumber can just go in there and make these make these adjustments and that's why that whatever our for the expenses on the building we're going to be um I think that was as we were talking about it very very conservative right that's that's how we did this whole process everything was conservative so that we knew what we were getting into without without worrying about anything so so one last comment I didn't it jumped into my mind I remember them talking about the parking lot and the parking lot has some issues y um and then you just me Capital we may want to take a look down the road when North Main Street is getting done to see if at the time there's enough money still in you know the the fund where you could tie them all together so if they're already there PVE in the road and they swing in and do the parking lot maybe we can save a few bucks okay yeah no that's something think assuming that Capital says hey this is a good way to use the money um or the lantern flies don't take over yeah I okay on the lantern fly no about those dying I'm okay um what does this bring our free crash to I don't remember uh nine 97 Kim Kimberly are you back five7 9.57 okay I guess this is my question and I don't want it to come off like as a criticism because I I really don't know and it's just something like I thought about so we are we spent and we have a good chunk of free cash so that's why I'm just kind of thinking about it um it probably doesn't matter but I did want to ask so we were spent we spent an extra two million in free cash to save like would you say like a quarter million so is is that I don't know if this is like a Kim question or just like a like maybe everybody has like a different opinion on it but is that smart to spend two million I mean and again I know we have a big chunk of no I know where you're headed you know free cash but it smart to spend two million and the savings and I don't want to say just 20 I calculated 280,000 so basically you have to look at it like this if we if if we borrowed 3.3 y we would pay 700 ,000 in interest making the total cost $4 million right we borrow 1.9 and we put 2 point what did we say 2 point what did you just say 2.3 on it right yes what was it 1.3 is the extra 1.3 that number doesn't get to $4 million it gets to 375 even adding it all up so you save a quarter million bucks on the total cost I know you understand yeah so so the building so that 3.3 is it worth it so I think I'm saying is it worth 250,000 to have two million I see what you're saying accessible I see what you're saying two million more I guess I mean I think I think the answer is but I don't know that's my question yeah yeah like is it worth it yes yes okay all right so through the chair sure when you went back to the B of Select M days yep free cash would normally range in the 2 million two and a half million okay so for us to have 10 is just okay and and that's I mean the reason we have 10 is okay because of some accounting issues which let go and built up but this gives us the opportunity to do something like this to where you're saving another 250,000 um I I guess if our if our free cash wasn't so yeah if we were only at$ two or3 million cash we wouldn't to even yeah no so that so you're sort of weighing out the process right does does that make sense I don't know yeah it does and again I think like people have will have different opinions but no of course I I think wanted to know what everybody okay thinking what's it end up being about 11% that you're actually Saving right um 250,000 of two sorry Oh I thought you had the percentage there do you want me to talk yeah if you want to come up if you don't mind up you're on the next one anyway come up you're on the next agenda item anyway you're stuck hi Kim hello um I just wanted to kind of add to it when you're asking the question we're saving a certain amount of money but no matter what those interest pay payments and those principal payments are going to fight with the general fund budget so the more we borrow and the more those payments are every month it's not excluded debt you're now paying those monthly payments I mean those annual payments every year in addition to the fact that you purchase the building in addition to the fact that you want to add more Capital so I think keeping your payments as low as possible so they're not fighting with your general fund budget so that you can actually support the Departments and you having so much free cash available I think it's a good choice to kind of take as much as you can an offset okay do that Mak sense much more eloquently much yeah yeah and I I figur that's what the answer was going to be but I oh it's okay talk it out I think what happens is we we've been through every iteration of this in the last four months we've talked about this amount doing this amount moving this here moving that there and so I think a lot of times I sort of fumble around and don't tell you that we've gone through every single iteration because I guess I think that you assume that I did so that's sort of my fault and and so um that's why Kim's here okay have she's here than leads us right into the next one huh yeah anything else on 382 before we move on hey next we have the discussion on free cash y so from our last meeting it was um Kathy's suggestion which I think was a good one to ask the town manager to come up with some proposals on how we might best use these parts of free cash and what our direction should be going forward so that we have something to evaluate and comment on so I sent you our um updated Financial reserves or sorry let's call it proposed um have the existing financial reserve policies with our Target percentages and then this is our updated one which you'll notice uh has a capital stabilization fund so uh obviously uh this is something that we've talked about quite a bit in the last year and a half or so um to the point where it is one of the manager goals this year is to look at this um again we we've we've been talking about this I think um every 15 minutes Kim and I have come up with different numbers of where to move this free cash and sort of in line with our proposals um and um at this point um we're just we're recommending and this is sort of where the conversation started was that we we start we get our we get all of our Reserve accounts where they're supposed to be based on our policies right so the stabilization fund is at whatever 4.3 right now we add 1.8 to it now we're at that number of 8% of the budget which is what the financial policy says it should be um we were going to create a capital stabilization fund with like a million dollars which again is just another stabilization fund um for Capital specifically um and and this sort of is part of the conversation is you know how do we want to set this stabilization fund up in terms of how it's used are we going to stay with 2% of the budget for Capital are we going to be more aggressive which uh we tried to be last year right we we threw some extra money at the budget we weren't at whatever our standard 1.2 1.3 we we we got after it a little bit which I think was a good thing um I don't know that we can go after it that hard every year um I don't think that's sustainable but um it is sustainable if we have a stabilization fund that we can say go through our Capital process like we always do rate the projects and if we have eight projects rated a need to be done and that number is 1.8 million and we're only putting 1.5 in the general fund we can use 300,000 to do those projects that have to have to be done this year um this is my thought for that fund um and again the the the reserve policy goes into how these These are funded every year uh in the budget um and then our our I think there's an $84,000 transfer to compensated offices to get that to its um full allotment right excuse me um and then um and then a a sort of a generous bump to OPB which okay I know nothing I've said um sort of gets sexy but um I think you know we're in a good position here to invest our money and and make our money work for us as it's happening um so a lot of these Reserve accounts I'll be honest with you very we had a ratings call for this new Bond coming up uh last week or two last week last Wednesday was it oh my gosh um this this is the stuff that they want to see this is what they see you're in good shape when they um all this work that the council and the town has done to get these reserves where they're at and and Kim coming up with these policies to get us in line with what DLS says we should be we're healthy so our bond rating is what it is because we have this money and we and we're not sort of Friv frivolously spending it um and it's making money ex sitting uh and as we talked about last year those Investments and the stabilization in OPB are a lot more fruitful than they used to be um so um again that would put our uh with everything I just sort of laid out coming down from the uh the the the transfers you made last last time for the arpa projects um the additional 500 um the pavement program the police retro um Capital stable General stabilization opep we're down to like $6 million in free cash uh which is Tad more than our and I I'll let you go into this because I don't want to say the wrong thing in terms of why it's over why it's still over um the target which is only 5% of the budget so 5% of our budget would be somewhere around 3.5 million and we and it's a minimum of 5% so we we'd probably want to be a little more than that um do you want to just sort of go into why it's it's a little bit more right now and as the year plays out there's some room there to move that money even further but for now y we want to keep it at six for this reason so there's a a couple reasons actually um we've been living at a very high um fre cash amount which is being used as cash flow for the treasure um I don't want to take away all that cash flow all at once um the other benefit is and I mean you're not earning as much interest in the general fund but any of those any of that free cash money is either being invested in money markets CDs regular bank accounts so the rates aren't as high as what you'd be earning is if you put it into a stabilization um or an OPB but the money gets to stay in the general fund so whatever money we're earning on the $6 million becomes Revenue in the general fund it rolls into free cash the money that you move out now becomes part of those other funds any interest that's earned on them stays in there so I don't want to take all this money immediately pull it out of the general fund lose our cash flow and possible Revenue that we're kind of anticipating in the general fund this year so I'd rather re-evaluate and then we can sort of look at that number and because again like I said it's over again it's it's a minimum number for free cash which is why we've operated with this much free cash it's not there's no but it's more than it would be and and in all actuality when when I think that we see that play out over the rest of fy2 some more of that money could be moved into the places where it's getting more return on investment um so that that's that's sort of a little different from where the con first conversation started with that I had with Connor about where we wanted to move some of this money um but um you know again sort of open to suggestion and and thought of having a conversation about um you know where where we want to be um you know I'm happy to answer any questions or or yeah I'm sorry yes I don't get to call on people I forgot oh oh I that's not my job the chair you mentioned a bump for OPB at some point what is refresh my memory is it just an amount that we decide every year or are we trying to be more um consistent with how much we put into opep every year go so the policies basically say that we'll put 100,000 into stabilization oped and I think 75,000 into compensated absences um until they reach their targets which compensating absences at this point will have reached its Target but we do use it on on an annual basis um OPB 100,000 isn't really going to get us there so anytime we do have some extra money to put in there it's a good idea to kind of throw you know a little bit at it but I mean I what is our percentage 26 now right you need to be at 100% so I know but we're not gonna if we don't put money in it okay yeah right though I mean it's going to earn so I know we're in better shape than a lot of people but still yeah okay thank you again and that I think when we see that number sort of come out at the end of FY 25 that that's probably a place where some more money can go um like Kim said you I don't have to say it I mean it's math the more money's in there the more it makes I mean so um and and we're only at a quarter of what we need to be at so uh which and we're fighting with a number that increases every single correct so through the chair um I didn't notice OPB listed under your financials as far as you know you've got um yes obtained earnings and all of that but oh I I don't see it anywhere there I didn't see it it's not in the financial reserves it's not on the financial reserves I didn't see it either op might have its own policy I can s okay I didn't notice that because that was going to be the highlight of some of mine and I also didn't see um I know you do percentages but I was just curious as far as you know what's 15% mean of our current budget and how much of a shortfall and to actually see the numbers associated with that okay um and that way there will know I mean you're saying hey 50,000 in this 100,000 should bring us up but without seeing any numbers yeah so that's what I 15% doesn't pay a heck of a lot when you don't know where you're at or where you're okay where the total is um I think that was on that other do you have that other email where it lists all of the balances and the percentages you get some yeah that was from that was from the last meeting last meeting I think right yeah and then the last thing I know I had asked it before and I don't remember if you actually answered um or if my brain's just losing it so when we get a certain amount of money in OPB if we run into issues thought I remembered that we could borrow against OPB is that accurate or is it not accurate I'm not sure about that I know there's a possibility that if you have so much in there that you're earning you're earning income on it it can be transferred to a stabilization but I'm I'd have to look into the rules of oped to see if you can borrow on it yeah I thought it was and I in my mind I referred back to like if I have my own four what is it 401k plan or whatever and I run into a problem I can borrow against it and I thought we were told when we set up OPB years ago that we could do that in case we run into anything that is just way out there um and yeah I mean I think that's a question that you know you don't look into until you get to the you get so much closer so it's not something I've looked at but I I guess the reason I'm asking is because then if we're putting additional monies in to grow it and we run into some major problem we know that okay well that money is not frozen at least at least God forbid if we have to have it we could you know borrow against it right yeah I mean I can look into that I don't know the answer to that but you can take the money out you have the opportunity of taking money out of your stabilization if you needed it yeah I was just like said I mean don't see any foresee anything going forwards where we're going to spend $25 million in stabilization free cash and everything but um well you don't know I mean you don't know right I mean look at Hawaii what was it lahina the whole City's gone you know I'm sure all of a sudden the tax revenue dried up there and they're going hey and you don't think about that though I mean same with all these small towns in North Carolina that just got hit I I mean there's nothing left so what ends up happening well and that's where you start looking at major issues and you say well at least we have this and we have this and let's hope nothing ever happen like that and those bad notes go ahead Conor take over oh my question was going to be similar on the the percent vein so I see in the the financial reserve policy you have where it says like 133% and 5% % but they all reference like of whatever the current operating budget is but I guess I would just want to know what those numbers are for this year so that we could kind of see what the percent equals I can um I can f yeah yeah yeah we so basically we do and and um without you know being too forceful on you I wanted to continue the conversation and if this is the way to go which is our recommendation all those numbers will be in the spreadsheet in the motion and we'll do it all in December that was our that was sort of our thought was to to make sure everybody sort of okay with the plan and uh we'll execute it the first meeting in in December and obviously that's your prerogative but um this is sort of our recommendation for the best way to use this uh right now I think in terms of the overall plan my thoughts um I think it makes sense putting some especially just to the regular stabilization fund and getting that closer to our Target and establishing the capital stabilization fund because that was a goal that the the council had and certainly that the um the capital planning committee has had for the last couple years when we've reviewed the laundry list of capital projects that are hard to get to all of them um I sort of envisioned that one though not putting a ton of money into it when it's kind of that philosophical time value of money question of do we just spend it now on projects that we know we could and should do versus putting it in a fund waiting for the future um kind of question but I also see that you know if we in the capital planning process in upcoming years if we got to the point where you know the we've got all these projects and we rank them all and we come up with well we could either spend 1.1 or 1.8 but maybe we target Ted to spend 1.5 you know it seems silly that we would underspend maybe to the detriment of building the project list every single year and you could put that extra bit in the capital stabilization fund for the following year um or yes if there was something that had to get done you could take the 300,000 and put it towards that Year's projects or something I think it could kind of go both ways we're not always drawing on it every year sometimes we could be adding if we didn't hit our Target yep project numbers didn't add up and you've been in and you you've been in a lot of those meetings and and many of you have I suppose but you know it almost like makes the decision for you when you're looking at the money which is really not the way to make a decision sort of on the projects that you need to get done is like oh we're out of money you know like so but like the other example I was thinking about was like the other half of these Modell at at Mountain View that we we borrowed one .3 million to finish them if we had you know four years from now an account that we had money in we wouldn't have to borrow the money and pay the interest on $1.3 million right so I think uh sort of in line with our Capital policy like to have I I see your point about just put it in there but um so that there there was there was plenty of on that and again that's a vote you have to take too if you want to create that account um so that was why the conversation kept happening is what what are your thoughts and what what do you think about this and that I appreciate the the the conversation I guess what I'm saying so through the chair s so my thought on the capital stabilization was that we were going to or that we could create a municipal building stabilization fund that we put smaller amounts of money in let's say 100,000 um to be used towards municipal buildings down the road that are going to need to be redone we know we're going to either have to put an addition on or rebuild the police station we know down the road the fire station's going to need it and that we put a smaller amount in that stabilization fund because you don't really miss it that much and then use the other to bolster our capital projects during the year so that way there we can stay at roughly 2% two and a half% into the capitalization and just tuck some away so that when it's time you start with hey we've got a half a million or three three quers of a million dollars now instead of borrowing you know four we're only borrowing three and a half that was my thought on it I'm can I sure so so two uh or or just you mean a building one or just one okay I'm sorry ipal building stabilization fund you can call it capital municipal buildings and then use the money for capital projects as they come up because I think we still have pretty hefty list I don't Capital going away yeah I think to add to that probably a line where I I don't think it would be my intention and that fun to use it that oh if there's a $20,000 request for something on capital projects that we would keep taking out of the fund for it I think it's hopefully geared towards some of these larger ticket items that we're preparing for the future um but like what how do I name that one we're creating the account and we're and we're creating the policy so we can write it however we want um that's how we want to write it and how we want to use it and how the account will operate That's How we'll write the policy um I think you know I I hadn't thought about it like that um and I but I I do agree I didn't think that we were going to just grab $50,000 here and there that this was going to be right oh crap the Modell are up if if we if we have a $1.8 million project that's it for capital for the year we can't we can't do that like we have we have all these to do so when one of these comes up that is you know too much for getting on the list and not enough for asking the voters if we how much we can right I mean you know what I'm saying yeah that there's that there's that spot in there that we've got to figure out how to do and pay for without right without asking for more money and that that's how I guess I was picturing the the larger uh yeah do anyone have no I mean I guess the way I wrote the policy was I think my impression was the hope was to kind of build a capital stabilization that would earn interest keep interest with the fund so it would continue to grow you'd fund it at 100,000 a year and then you know you know we're trying to get to like 3% of the budget we're still I think at about 2% of the budget that we Ed for Capital but let's say that's 1.5 million and they come in at like 1.7 well you could use 200,000 out of the stabilization fund to kind of fund it but you wouldn't completely be depleting the fund so I think that's how I took it when I heard the conversations so we certainly have all sorts of options right I mean this that's the point of having this account for just this specific P purpose that On Any Given year the capital plan changes and projects come up that that weren't on there last year quite frankly um so um I mean changing landscape right so like if you it to just be for municipal buildings that can be in the policy it can be a capital stabilization fund where it's only used you know to improve buildings it's it's really how you want to write the policy I tend to like leaving it maybe not in the language for the policy so specific to buildings but maybe in the back of our minds when we're voting on the budget every year having that you know like those are the big ticket items anyway right like that's what happens it's the building ones the roofs and the right like yeah yeah or repaving the parking lot have any other thoughts or comments so Kim do you understand exactly what we just said I think you should take the the blur about the policy and then make little notes on it it to so again the in summation it's basically aside from our new policy the the the the Capital One we're just trying to hit our Targets on what you know Kim has identified or chatted with DLS to find out where we should be to be in good standing and we're going to move that money hit those numbers I'll give you the numbers that go with the percents in the Motions next week and we'll create that account and we'll move some money around cool I think the main thing is if we create the fund we can adjust the policy as we see fit going forwards correct yeah I would want to start with a pretty clear policy though and then if you spend this decide that you want to change it we can update the policy later don't touch great all right I think we're set to move forward thank you thank you next under old business we had the life insurance optional benefit thanks k thanks Kim thanks so uh couple things uh I thought it was a come on up yay uh it was a nice opportunity for uh me to introduce our new HR Director audre Staples and uh hi Audra hi Tom um it's my understanding that we don't have too much of an update on the life insurance but um I thought Audrey could come and and talk about it a little bit think she had a at least maybe a preliminary conversation with somebody in our insurance company about this possibility and what it would look like um but I don't want to put words in your mouth so without further Ado uh I'll just say hi WIP the intro welc like that I'm glad you practiced it yeah so it's nice to meet you all I'm really glad um that I can put names the faces and vice versa um so I reached out to our we have two different types of life insurance currently for employees we have the um Town sponsored plans and so that's um paid the basic policy is paid 50% by the employee and 50% by the employer and then we also have um more of like an elective voluntary plan um and so I reached out to Boston Mutual first to just kind of get an idea from them of what products we could offer to elected officials and and um one of my big questions for them was if we could offer a plan um would we be able to do a special enrollment for the existing membership of that group that we're going to offer it to and my reason for that is because with life insurance if you don't elect into it at the beginning of the plan or in your original enrollment period Then you have to jump through a lot of Hoops um there's a lot of like blood work lab like lab work testing doctors visits all that that kind of stuff so um I just wanted to be able to bring that information to you guys and tell you like yes we can do this but it will come with this or we can do this and it we can kind of skip over that she hasn't gotten back to me with that information yet um but that's what I'm kind of looking for there and then when I have that information I'll also bring parallel to it our other vendor which um is kind of pretty hands-off for us it's basically if it's something that you want to en roll in um you enroll in it and then it just comes out of your paycheck it's um I think it's a it's a product through afflac so it's that kind of a life insurance policy um so I don't have a full answer for you guys yet like Tom said but that's where we're at in finding one so it sounds like it's possible I and they didn't say no it's not possible so it sounds like it there will be um probably options whether it's completely funded by the enrol e or it's the program that's offered as a partially paid by the town benefit um again those are things that we'll have to look at when she um I think just with the holiday and everything um she was unable to get me the information before tonight so I'm hoping to have it um pretty soon though she she's pretty been pretty responsive to my emails so and I mean I don't think we're not talking a lot of people adding in which I don't know if that's good or bad thank you any other questions or comments all right thank you for the update thank you very much to you guys as well happy thanks thank you thank you for coming next we have new business we have the proposed bylaw chapter 14 regarding unmanned aircraft systems also known as drones for a first reading anyone that wants to volunteer to through the chair before we do a first reading sure um I know usually when a bylaw comes in front of us um we decide whether or not we think it's worthy of even moving forwards um I've read through this bylaw and I just find that it's impossible to enforce you stop and think about what you're basically saying um you know I know growing up I used to have the RC aircraft we had a plane field literally right across the street from the house that you're flying over multiple properties um there's a lot of benefits to drones I mean the town owns a drone we fly over whether it be the parade or whether it be us us it we used it in hamon at a fire and stuff um and I can't see our around trying to find out where a drone took off where it landed and I I personally don't see any issues I'd like to know beforehand from our Police Department how many issues have been submitted how many complaints about drones because I think we're trying to create a bylaw we don't need to I don't think there's that many issues with it um and I think in my opinion right at the moment it's overreach it would be one thing I think if the police department had a log of you know 200 complaints that are in and hey we got to do something about this but I'm not hearing about this from anyone um and I just think the board should really consider whether or not we even want to do something like this first sure um okay just because it's unenforcable and I probably agree with that it establishes some criteria that we have in place in the event the police are in a situation where they're dealing with a drone they can at least take from this bylaw um some information with which how to how to respond I think back on the hens and chicks and we don't have any regulations and so how do you how does our building inspector respond at least it gives it it identifies things and it it would give the um Police Department some way to enforce event they come upon a problem that happens to fall in their lap that's my thought sorry Ralph no no no like I said as a response I just think I think there's too many benefits to drones um I mean how many times have we looked on the East Long Metal Forum and seen the pictures of the rotary and all well that's not allowed under this bylaw you can't fly it unless you have someone's permission to go over personal property and all and half the times I don't even think you know whose property you'd be flying it over um the other thing is I mean Christmas gifts for kids they go outs side they play in the backyard hey I flew it over the neighbor's fence whoop you're in violation of our bylaw um I just think it's overreaching marked this down in the calendar but I tend to agree with you Ral does that mean that you disagree with Marilyn right not but that's not unusual no I think my two big problems with it or one it it does seem to be enforcable and even if there were ways that we could add some enforceability behind it it's asking the police department to do a lot of extra work and I think there's a lot more pressing problems in town um two I I'm also not sure who's even complaining about this I've never had anyone not to say that there aren't people but I don't think anyone's ever questioned me or mentioned it as a problem so it kind of seems like a solution in search of a problem and then the third I have at least in the way I read what was proposed to us I also think it puts the town in a lot of legal gray area um as I was doing more research like drones are already governed by the FAA and I think it's part something of their General regulations and they're very specific about only the FAA has allowed the authority to regulate airspace and what can fly over any particular piece of property like we tend to think you own a piece of property and it's like you own the ground you don't own the airspace above that property and so I don't think as the town of Islam we could even say you're not allowed to fly over that airspace you could potentially say you can't take off in land from certain locations but my interpretation of the faa's rules is that you can't say that people can't fly over any particular areas unless it was already a federal do not fly that's just my two cents though I'll certainly leave it open to the will of the Council on how to proceed from here well Rob's here too uh maybe he can address some of that for you uh Rob sure give some background too because there wasn't this would actually be a general bylaw correct yes it would it wouldn't be a zoning thing at all um so this came up as a discussion from three or four plan board meetings ago um and they voot unanimously to consider this language uh as an amendment to the town General bylaws particularly its own General sorry separate section I picked chapter 414 because it wasn't currently being used I figured that'd be the best place for it um so this bylaw is based off of what Holio kipi did with their own bylaws which are both currently effective so yeah you are correct the FAA does regulate through USC I forgot the exact number of the code um it's the code that governs the Federal Aviation Administration um essentially everything relating to drones is governed by the FAA but there are some things that aren't spec specifically spelled out in our own bylaws so for example the FAA prohibits you to fly over groups of people unless you have written permission from the property owner to do that you can't fly over a building with people inside of it without written permission from the property owner so it's not prohibiting people from flying these things in the air it's just prohibiting these people from flying on property that's not theirs so you can't fly it on public property you can't fly it on somebody else's property without written permission if you want to fly on public property you would need a license to do so which you have to get through the FAA and it's a license to operate what are called unmanned aircraft systems uas which allows people to fly commercial drones which are less than 55 pounds um through airspace and you cannot fly above 900 feet because that's when you get into Federal airspace which is legal so what this bylaw is doing is that it's addressing what the playing board saw as a nuisance in regards to people's private rights so rights to privacy like for example if somebody flies a drone past your window while you're home home that could be seen as an evasion of privacy so how can you give a mechanism to the police department to enforce ways of protecting people's privacy from essentially unmanned aircraft systems that could be used for I don't know say spying on people or if you are flying it across people's yards from your own house how could you what mechanism could the police department use to enforce something like that so I guess the underlying purpose of why they brought this up was to give the police department way of preventing that from happening um so again you know at the request of the plan board that's why I that's why I drafted this bylaw and that's why I'm here explaining it to you tonight so thank you again I think all that unless there's someone that complains it's not going to be enforced and then once they finally do enforce it they're going to say well John down the street was doing it and this one was doing it and this one was doing it why didn't you go after them and I just think it opens up a huge can of worms but sorry because I didn't say through the chair John you had something yeah I was just gonna say um through the chair you know when I was reading this um earlier I felt like you know I don't know of the cases I'd be interested maybe to see if there have been you know a lot of complaints or things that have happened in town but you know drones are obviously a really interesting technology that's popped up over the last couple of years or very recently my biggest concern and what I would feel like I I would kind of want to maybe continue on in this um journey of considering it uh because of those privacy issues I mean the idea that you know theoretically somebody could fly it over somebody's window and then you know what type of recourse would they have and there's been situations of that you know that have happened I don't know how common it is um but you could have those situations pop up especially as it becomes more popular or the Drone technology kind of advances so I do understand the enforceability issue but I think maybe even just at least starting off and furthering the discussion on how we could maybe better enforce it I think would be would be a good idea go through the chair one one last thought is I know Amazon has spent a ton of money researching drone delivery system and literally you in your coordinates you tell them what you want drone comes over drops it on your porch I know in rural areas they've used that quite a bit um again this is something that completely eliminates stuff like that not that it's happening here I don't know I haven't ordered anything that's been delivered by a drone but I'm just saying I have seen stuff like that and again it's something else too just I'd like more information at least from our Police Department to know know if there has been complaints about it how many complaints or if we're creating a solution like you said for a problem that doesn't exist I could also see some potential privacy concerns like you don't think anyone wants you know someone peeping through their window but at the same time we also have to keep in mind some basic First Amendment protections and Nothing Stops anyone from walking down the sidewalk with a really long telephoto lens and taking pictures through your window and that's perfectly legal so why should a drone necessarily be all that different very frowned upon yeah frowned upon absolutely not illegal right hey I'm just gonna leave it there who the chair sure I I think I'm kind of along the same lines I maybe want to hear from the police department if there's other Alternatives within the criminal code to address issues like that as opposed went down bylaw that might not be enforcable but there's something else in the books criminally that you if I call the police department you know the neighbor down the street is you know buly a drone by my window can they do they have a mechanism to address that already if they do then I don't think this would be necessary if they don't then be like Toons it what is the overall Ro of the council oh I would make a motion continue this to a future uh meeting and request um information Police Department with regards to issues as got that Jackie is there a second I'll second it motion's been made and seconded to continue to a future meeting since this wasn't a public hearing we don't have to specify the exact meeting date so as we get the information weel that in the calendar and aend it any other discussion hey seeing none Jim yes Anna yes I'm a yes Marilyn yes Ralph yes uh John I'm a yes and Kathy yes we will undertake that issue at a future meeting okay then we have another new business item proposed by amendments to chapter 450 regarding property upkeep and appearance read the proposed changes unless there's any coms beforehand always to start beforehand I have no problems um if you want to discuss it beforehand because I do have a few issues would it be helpful to that have background again sure okay yeah let's start with the background um so background um so this is one of the first items we discussed when I joined the town back in May with the planing board a lot of playing board issues recent um so this one focuses on making a several not several but a few minor amendments to sections 3.3 which is our additional use dimensional and density regulation section um and then also 5.6 which is off street parking so the reason why this was brought up for discussion amongst the planing board was because there's been issues that they've identified as um property upkeep and maintenance related issues so for example people have been noing recreational vehicles and trailers that aren't garage or properly screened from the street you've seen people Park them on the edge of driveways on their lawns uh supposedly there was a restaurant in town off North Main Street I'm not going to name the restaurant but you all know who it is that had a boat for sale for several months and I think that really persuade the plan board to consider this amendment um just looking through it now um we added a section on temporary dumpsters because a few other members talked about how some properties left dumpsters for several months and they weren't ever really removed it's not uncommon to see other towns have in their bylaws where you have a 30-day maximum of having a large dumpster on your property so say for example if you're clearing out like like a house or something typically a dumpster is there for 30 days that's the standard across other communities in the Commonwealth um for sheds and private garages um so for example you've seen other instances where you might have somebody approach you and say hey I want to put a shipping container on my property and use it the store stuff sometimes they'll have this shipping container in their front lawn in the back it might be kind of an eye sword to people so plane board also wanted to make sure that people didn't start consider using those as sheds or garages to store vehicles and large equipments and then the last bit there at the bottom the addition to 5.6 would be to add a section on parking on improved surfaces so some communities prohibit people from parking on non-paved surfaces so say for example just grass or dirt as opposed to harack gravel uh binous concrete um pavers oil and stone which are typically what you would see as a impervious surface and the reason for that is because when you park a vehicle on dirt or grass after a while it destroys the dirt and the grass causes flooding issues although impervious service also presents their own flooding issues typically you would mitigate against that by directing the flow down towards a storm drain on the street but in this case it's more of an appearance related issue as well and that's justification for including that in this Amendment here um and that's pretty much all I had um happy to take questions before you start your reading or I I don't know if there's anything that that's been brought up for my discussion on this thank you I guess before we read I'll add my comments to the beginning of this one um I tend to not be in favor of this entire proposal um especially especially the parking on improved surfaces and recreational trailer well I don't think anyone necessarily wants to see you know large boats like you mentioned on North Main Street or something just sitting there with a for sale sign but at the same time I don't think it's the job of any local government especially East Long Meadow to try to regulate what certain people think is their preferred visual standard for how other people live their lives and exercise their own property um my neighbor for example parks on the grass next to his driveway I don't have a problem with that and I don't think any of the neighbors have a problem with that we also have a trailer that we keep on Just for taking it to the town transfer station every weekend all of a sudden we would have to screen that by this bylaw and I don't think that's necessary because it's not an eyesore yeah that's my uh train of thought on that I don't know if anyone has any other thoughts or comments or if we want to proceed with the reading um sorry I me interrupt I do one last point so there is an exception for agricultural vehicles in uses by the way I just want to throw that out there in case it was lost but you know farmer tractor any other vehicles can be parked on their land no problem so sorry didn't mean to just want to throw out there before discussion got too far so through the chair yes so your agricultural exemption according to our past uh Building Commissioner would only apply to one business in town um as he said there was only one that was actually being used for full agricultural the rest would have been considered accessory agriculture which isn't allowed by our bylaw because they had a residential house or they had this or they had that um and again I'm just going back to what the previous Building Commissioner said um Connor we're two for two tonight because I am going to completely agree with you um I didn't find a single thing within this that I agreed with um I mean I'm going to start with temporary dumpsters I understand the frustration but I have to tell you um if you drive down Lee Street right now and you take a look at the side of the road people are driving up and they're literally dumping bags of trash over the side of the road because they don't have a place to put it and at least with a dumpster I give the People Credit are paying for a dumpster to be sitting there so that either they rehab a house or they're are using it um we have more illegal dumping in town than what people realize um and again the stuff I'm talking about on Lee Street happens to be right next to the brook um black vehicle didn't have the license plate but yes there's probably eight or nine bags of trash that they just drive up and they throw out where at least with the dumpster when you're rehabbing a house it may take you 6 months to go through a house to flip it and if a dumpster is sitting there for 6 months I I don't have an issue with it um that happened to be on the dumpsters the other thing I I took the liberty to point out dumpsters um being used as sheds um so other places in the country are actually using them for houses knew that was coming I mean I I don't see an issue with you know a container being used for a shed um I mean some of them are really cute and I have to tell you I I wouldn't have an issue looking at that but within our bylaw if we approve this these wouldn't even be optional um we our state just passed our Adu and I have to tell you you I think you're going to see people using containers to construct adus in this state um they're doing it all over the country um it's actually a a whole new wave if you go on YouTube and you type in you will see literally hundreds and hundreds of these videos on how to do it um as far as the 4 53.3 B um I just wanted to comment the adding of the sheds that sounds more like a definition that should have been added under definitions um and I'm not sure why we have to Define it um a structure is a structure if it's allowed dimensionally it's allowed um and as far as the recreational vehicle adding boats and any other personal watercraft would that be including you know your kayaks your John boats your um water tubes um I think there's a lot of leeway that that although I understand what we're trying to fix I just think for what people pay in this town for taxes if they want to park their boat in their driveway on a trailer that's registered let them park it in their driveway I'm a trailer I mean a gentleman on Lee Street we basically forced him to put a gate in and literally he drives across his lawn to park his trailer in the backyard and now what you see ruts across the lawn well because he's driving across what do we want to do now make him tear up the lawn and actually put in gravel so that he can store a trailer in the backyard they say let him put it in the driveway I mean it's a registered trailer who who cares just my thoughts thank you I'll definitely bring these comments back to the plan board their next meeting on on Tuesday but you provide some some uh thorough and and good feedback so I'll definitely make them aware of this discussion today any other I have a question for Rob please I've been um trying to find in the zoning BYO I thought we had something in there that addressed the um truck trailers um that were used that they had to be screened and that you couldn't put a tarp over the top at least that's what I remember and that but it but you could have a trailer for storage in the back of your property as long as it was screened I believe so yes because I don't know if if this would then be in conflict with what we already have I just can't find it I don't remember the exact section off top of my head either but I know for most large vehicles and recreational vehicles usually you want to be screened or behind the house so it's not visible from the street or garage how you're going to garage an RV maybe something smaller like a I guess a boat I don't know but that's typically what the general theme has been that I've seen again I don't remember the exact section off top of my head so I can't really provide an answer to you Ralph has the whole I'm not gonna look for the section but typically yes and I think the bylaw that you were talking about Maryland with regards to a tarp um is in there and was changed multiple times had to do with a residence on hamton road um unregistered vehicle Co parked in the back had to be covered out of sight so he put a blue tarp over it then they changed the bylaw that it has to be out of sight but not with a blue tarp so he put a brown tarp over again these are changes in the laws basically to address one um but I do suggestions for changing yes and the one complaint that I often get is is someone Parks their RV on the side of their house and the next door neighbors Park theirs on the side of their house on the same side so and the people across the street hate looking at two RVs I mean it's Beauties in the eyes of the beholder doesn't matter you know we're not going to make everybody happy the one last comment through the chair sure if I remember right and again it's from one of my customers in Long Meadow was that they had an RV they were allowed to park it next to their in their driveway next to their garage if they received permission from the neighbors who are going to see it within I forgot the distance it's it was a short distance and again I'm going way back with this they may have changed the bylaw or something but I would think that would make more sense is if we're worried about hey it doesn't look good or something as long as all the neighbors are okay with it I disagree neighbors are okay with it you still don't think it should be no I don't think we should leave it up to each individual neighbor like so your neighbors are okay with it so it's okay for you but my neighbors aren't so I'm just saying that was an option something to look into um I sure I don't like it so to Conor's point this is the call I get the most this is happening I don't like it what can what can you do 18 houses property they can do whatever they want they're not breaking the law sorry you don't like it have a good day so you you're kind of right at some point you can do what you need to do on your property and that's okay um sorry if you don't like what your neighbor's doing but um they're not breaking the law but I also I also feel that our zoning bylaws do keep an established standard within our community I mean I've driven to other communities and I've said they don't have any zoning I mean really I mean I really feel that they they protect us and they guide us more than they you're right you know take away our civil liberties I guess easily I guess just a couple comments and uh questions number one regard in and Ralph this isn't that that you that's okay it's it's it's a neighbor of mine um you know just like a little Lawns landscaping business he has his trailer out there fills it with grass leaves it out his lawn is immaculate his property is beautiful I don't know if any neighbors that have an issue with it and I wouldn't want to prohibit him from running his business um because of this um number two is it and I guess maybe depending on where you are in town you know is there certain areas where this is Po up Mo's issues in terms of the RVs are there calls coming in I mean basically is it a problem where people are really complaining about it a lot is it like two or three people who are kind of driving the discussion or I don't have an answer for you on that but I know that this was in discussion amongst the playing board at previous meetings that they saw it as an issue and that's why they wanted me to draft this bylaw and present it to the Town Council maybe data around it showing you know nothing I have avilable from from somebody saying hey you know we're getting 40 complaints a year on this or no complaints a year I mean the only thing I've seen has been um people parking commercial vehicles on town roads um maybe commercial vehicles on in their driveways people with like uh unregistered cars sitting in their driveway riding away or something um that's the extent of it and this is me hearing through Word of Mouth I've received maybe a couple phone calls about somebody who's had a car sit on their property for several months and they're wondering if it's ever going to be moved what they can do about it Etc but that's pretty much the extent of it I mean nothing else really that I've received at least guess my comment would be more the RV stuff is there anything currently in the books anywhere else regarding like size like nothing on the size of the RV I guess that'd be the only thing I'd say I'd really be in favor of instead of like a you know 40 foot long RV out somewhere is it like a 10 or 20 foot long type of that's where you get kind of tricky because that kind of goes into infringing on people's rights of property and that could be a whole ACLU related type of issue in the future so with zoning you can't really restrict on the type of property somebody can have unless it's seen as a direct nuisance um there's several case law that supports that but usually you don't want to take away people's rights through zoning because that's usually thrown away you can't legally do that um what you can do with zoning is tried to limit what you can do in terms of Developmental patterns that allow people to appropriately enjoy their property and to protect their neighbors but that's the extent of it I've seen other bylaws where they have been overreaching and they have usually been challenged and and lost in court because of simple Liberties infringements so one thing to consider too when doing these types of amendments moving forward excuse me I guess a Ral Point too like especially with the dumpsters like I mean I know that people across the street from my in-laws they had it took them a year and a half to get their house redone after having a massive water week so that would be I think cumbersome a lot of people looking to do Home Improvement projects and stuff of that nature even on the disaster front I remember on a yeah my Street near the the stream that runs through it was maybe two years ago when we had a really wet summer and there was a lot of flooding they flooded quite a few neighbors basements and they had dumpsters there for like three months because no sooner did they gut and then they had to do it again and so there was a dumpster there for quite a while while they were going through that process so I don't I don't think just a month is a adequate amount of time for I will say my neighbor literally just last year spent the entire year they gutted their entire house and redid it all and the dumpster was there the whole year being emptied it seemed like every two weeks but um but the dumpster was still there and to them it was more of a nuisance I think because it was in the driveway and they had to try and skirt around it but any other comments or overall will of the council I'm not sure I mean I'll be true I'm not in in favor of the suggestion and I don't know if sending it back would change it um yeah I mean there's really no way to stop planning board from sending it back right I mean like you and then you just do the same thing and have the same conversation so well I mean you so what you're doing is just you know not recom back recommending it back to them to do a public hearing so they can come back to you as many times they want to with expirations to this right but you know you guys are deciding whether or not to do the public hearing process so okay other discuss so do you need a motion um do not do first reading and not to recommend submitted if you want to I mean I suppose we didn't just not sure you want me to help craft a like a motion to make or something oh withdraw would you don't you don't have to withdraw it's not like a nothing's really submitted this is just submit to you because you whether or not we want to you technically start the zoning process so so if you vote to recommend to the playing board then that's when the formalities come in if you vote to not recommend to the planing board then just that's it so just a basically a motion not to consider the submitting I think we have two choices we could either just make no motion at Point the matter dies make no this isn't yeah this isn't a public hearing so you don't have to withdraw anything um if we were to make a motion then that would just enforce our Council Ro then we couldn't reconsider a similar later for many months and Jackie's gonna take more notes I think we just yeah it's the consensus that we take no action all right new business action items thank you rob thanks for taking loves for the plan board Happy Thanksgiving apprciate it thank you anyone have thanks Rob thank you meeting that came about from this meeting no we'll have a talk yeah robust agenda there's only one in December too right is that correct yeah we just have December 10th oh yeah Christmas Eve okay the other one would Christmas Eve which we are not doing why I think for um we had we have a public hearing correct okay license renewals the annual license a good meeting to miss all right um just curious on the public hearings is there a super majority is there anything to do with zoning that needs the continuation of the solar and it's the uh second reading of the kenneling and second reading of the you're talking on thew review that one was just because our motion from the last meeting said we would continue it to the 10th but I intend that we're just going to continue it from the 10th to okay because second readings both for commercial candling and the bylaw Review Committee bylaw yeah commercial kening is I think okay right unless you have something else for me and I and I am hoping that next week we will be able to between John Jim myself I know Diane's not available um to take care of the bylaw review bylaw I I don't think that there's very much to that um maybe a little bit of word adjustment but other than that it looked pretty good so I think we'll be able to get there of which I'm leaving okay like the next day so Goa okay okay then our next meeting is scheduled for Tuesday December 10th there's other questions or comments I'll entertain a motion to adjourn moved second motion's been made and seconded any further discussion seeing none yes Han yes I'm a yes Ralph yes John I'm a yes and Kathy yes okay we are insur everybody 7:5 Happy Thanksgiving Happy Thanksgiving thank