##VIDEO ID:VQYMYoTG1Gs## e here we go well good evening everybody and welcome to the city council meeting for the city of VI it is Tuesday evening August 20th 24 2024 and it is 7:03 p.m. and um director B bod I think told you all that that we've been doing these meetings on a hybrid basis all during covid and thereafter so folks can not only come to City Hall to participate in uh in the work that we do uh at appropriate portions of the agenda and tonight it's a a public comment and um uh there's ways to do it if you're remote uh and we could we've got that number that'll come up on the screen here momentarily um so if you're this community comment will come up fairly fast we're going to talk to folks from our community that are here first this gives folks that are remote a chance to get ready to call in so there's your call-in number there's your access code there's your password uh and that as I said will come up fairly fast so uh having provided that information I'm going to call the meeting to order and I'm going to ask our clerk Sharon Ellison to call the role council member Jackson here council member Pierce here council member Risser here council member AG is absent mayor hublin here and next is the Pledge of Allegiance to the FL of the United States of America and to the Republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all thanks folks um and now the uh next matter on the agenda is the approval of the meeting agenda itself and is there anyone on the council or from a staff standpoint that wishes to modify or propose modifying the agenda is there a motion to approve the meeting agenda in it's published form so moved member Jackson moves member here seconds the adoption of the meeting agenda in its published form uh any further discussion all in favor of adopting the meeting agenda is published say I I I opposed carried uh and now we are at Community comment so I'm going to have that number come up on the screen uh so you can get ready to call in but first we're going to turn to any residents we have uh here with us this evening and uh folks know that uh whether you're here for the first time or uh this is a your frequent flyer uh come often we've got three minutes for folks to give their presentation you'll get a yellow light and amber light when you've got 30 seconds left and then you should think about wrapping up uh right around the time we hit the red light so that we treat everybody the same here so uh welcome and um please introduce yourself and give us your your address good evening mayor council members and residents of Adina my name is Ralph zicker I live at 4311 I live at 4311 Cornelia Circle during the August 15th HRA meeting the council voted four to one in favor of a $23 million proposed gift of city tax revenue to the Macy's site developer I take exception to that vote and the one-sided presentation that manager Neil staff made to just jusy a yes vote if if we are to take staff's presentation at face value every new development in the foreseeable future would deserve the gift of Tiff in that August HRA meeting staff claimed there were four hurdles to development in ad therefore warranting the gift of Tiff hurdle number one Mr ziker um did you hear the um comment by our our community um communications director you know if it's scheduled for a future public hearing and I think you were at the meeting where this whole Tiff matter is going to be scheduled for a future public hearing and this is more it's not it's not on the schedule though if if you want to call up a schedule that has it on the schedule I'll I'll be glad to to to to to step down all right but is it is it on a published schedule at you go ahead and that's a fair point you go ahead and finish your thoughts in that August HRA meeting staff claimed there were four hurdles to development in Dina therefore warranting the gift of Tiff hurdle number one high land and Remediation costs so what the developer is saying that he wants us to pay him for being a community with a great reputation and a superb location as for remediation did the developer not do their homework before they agreed to pay more than two times the property's assessed value hurdle number two High financing costs yes borrowing costs are up but you would have to go back to 1950 to match the rates the developers have enjoyed the last 20 years and now that rates are back to historical Norms the developer wants to pick our pockets hurdle number hurdle number three High construction costs welcome to the new normal has the developer not been to the grocery store lately hurdle number four high standards for PUD zoning and ad's development fees the developer asked for the property to be rezoned to pudd and spot zoning bestowed upon the site gives the developer almost cart blanch leeway to run rough shot over A din setback and sight coverage requirements that coupled with a blind eye to what is or is not a public benefit creates an ideal not an onerous environment for the developer as for development fees why would the city charge these fees and then turn around and in effect give them back unless maybe it's the collection of some 50 to 70 million into the Tiff District cookie jar so manager Neil the H presentation reference the $23 million cost to the city a figure that does not include the millions of dollars in interest cost on those bonds my question is what is the city's estimate of those interest costs and why the lack of transparency also the developer claims their rate of return without Tiff is too low however neither the developer nor the H presentation quantifies just how much too low my question is does the Tiff dollar do the Tiff dollars close the entire Gap and it if not how much more is needed and again why the lack of transparency thank you thank you Mr Zer there anyone else in the audience that wishes to address the Council on a matter of concern to them that's uh yes please come forward Mr s uh not uh scheduled for a future public hearing or on the agenda this evening uh I think it'd be better off going to the side Podium unless you have uh some overhead that you want to use um actually talk to the mayor hold that speaker down just a touch would you thank you my uh my wife and I received a ticket for expired tabs on our car and uh policeman D policeman was there he was great you couldn't be prouder of a the way he handled himself and so I went to get the tabs at Golden Valley and I told him the story and they said oh we're messed up your your ownership or your car isn't right and so she you know what you need to really do is check with this Police Department to find out if you know what what you should do about it and so which I did but what really bothered me because I couldn't get a the sergeant Duty Sergeant was out in the field and I couldn't get a hold of him so what I did next is I called the the receptionist great person and I asked I need to talk to which lawyer and she gave me the first lawyer you have two lawyers and he said nope that's not my business he actually was on the phone called me back two minutes later the the other lawyer which I don't know these names I called him then about and his secretary called back about 10 minutes later and he said she said well he's not in the office I don't know what he's going to get back by the way all this happened last Tuesday and then I called the city manager's office and it said hey I'm not in call my receptionist or my assistant I called her three times and left three messages and you know what this says on her her thing I'm away from my desk doesn't say she's coming back doesn't she's on vacation nothing I then called the city manager and left the message guess how many people called me back from the city anybody want to a guess zero and I really came and the mayor was really good I wanted to ask somebody the city council if they can get staff to talk to poor common people who just happen to live in the city I think that's unacceptable 7even days without any response from the city you would have thought I would got one from the city manager his assistant right the lawyer so I don't know what's what's the policy here but is it hiding out or is it doing the best thing we can do for the people because you love spending money but the last thing I want to say is uh I live on 509 Blake Road I'm Peter Simpson and this your city engineer when he developed that section of Road Pat him on the back and take him to lunch he was so great to the people he every question they had a project manager who was like you make a phone call 10 minutes later he showed uper colge it was amazingly well done and the job is spectacular but anyway I wish maybe you can p a motion saying the city has a 24-hour rule to call get somebody back to you including the city man manager I know you guys are busy and but I'm I pay the bills and I'd like a little service thank you Mr Simpson did you leave your phone number or your contact information with Lieutenant the lieutenant was ni all right thanks for doing that and we'll we'll figure out what how we can help or guide you to the uh City attorney that handles uh criminal matters all right thanks thanks Mr Simpson are we will did you say something about it to the administra yeah I think right now between the lieutenant and the city manager your point was well made and uh you'll get some response thanks for coming in hey thank you for doing good evening my name is Nora Davis and I live at 6921 Southdale Road in the lake Cornelia neighborhood and I'm here tonight because of a safety concern on the roundabouts out here I don't know if there are any plans for any crossing lights but I had a rather terrifying experience about a week ago heading north on 100 getting ready to take the turn to get to work and there was a massive truck stalled on the entrance to Eden Avenue I went around him and all of a sudden here was a little kid attempting to cross he was in the you know getting ready to enter the crosswalk he was on a bike he had his helmet on but I tell you I was terrified had I not reduced my speed I'm not sure he would have survived he did have a helmet but getting run over by a 6500b vehicle is not good for anyone so I'm hoping at some point there are some Crossing l around here because people are traveling really fast so thank you yes thank you M Davis we'll have our Traffic Safety people take a look at that issue anyone else here in the audience wish to address the Council on a matter of concern to them that's not scheduled for anything on the agenda this evening or not scheduled on the agenda this evening uh or for a future public hearing okay not seeing anybody coming forward do we have anybody online director Ben we do not sir did you say no no she said no okay all right I thought you said uh not yet but that was uh I know that you you get disappointed when there's nobody online so I thought I had better double check with you um all right so we've got uh Community comment that has been made uh in Chambers nobody calling in from the virtual world to visit with the city council and next what we do is we go to the city manager for responses to the community comments that were made at the prior meeting and there were several of them I think as I recall my notes reflect and uh those were those were addressed uh in on our website by Friday following that Tuesday meeting but we like to have you give an update verbally as well and so I will turn to you know uh manager Neil to give that update thank you your honor um there were a a number of speakers at our previous uh council meeting on the 5ifth I believe um and remember that we respond to questions we don't necess we don't critique or respond necessarily to um to opinions or to information that people share so the first question we had was uh what is the status of the Department of Justice inquiry into the accessibility of the Grand View Bridge um the City received a letter from the US attorney's office um a letter of inquiry on February 12th 2024 we've responded to that inquiry during the Spring the staff have and we're waiting to hear from the Department of Justice on next steps and we have not when we do uh we'll share that with Council as fast as we can uh the second question was what was the outcome of recent testing of the Grand View parking ramp uh the city hired a an engineering firm to assess the uh the Safety and Security of the of the what we call the Jerry's parking ramp we call it the Jerry's parking ramp but it is a city of a din owned parking structure uh we tested it the data gathered from the testing uh gives us sense of what kind of future maintenance we have to do uh of this of this parking ramp which is 40 years old uh the core testing that was part of that uh process that that tests the the kind of the lasting strength of the Concrete and Construction um has been complete we're still awaiting uh results from the contractor and we'll share those with uh with with residents and with the council as well uh finally there was a question about how the city how is the city responding to uh to area Chestnut boar infest infestations according to the US Forest Service uh two line Chestnut bores primarily attack oak trees and I think that was the question um uh from the last meeting uh Oaks have been defoliated ated by these insects and debilitated by root disease that's also caused by the chestnut boore uh our city Forester is has studied this question um he came back with with some information that's important to us as we think about how to how to handle this according to him there's about 4,000 oak trees in Dina parks and Open Spaces totaling more than 64,000 caliper inches his estimate uh he estimates it would cost about half a million dollars every two years uh to keep up uh with the preventative injections that were discussed at the last meeting that amount uh is high but it might but taking all these trees down um is also a high number too so we're evaluating both of those numbers to see which one is is uh more prudent for the city there was one other issue that uh one of our residents raised if want to rais the initial issues that you talked about and that was his um I don't know if it was his assertion or his musing about whether or not our storm water management system in Weber Park was causing flooding in Minneapolis and I think our engineer answered that question said no we work with Minneapolis and we're not causing any flooding issues around um Lake Calhoun because of the storm water management system at Weber there's a great deal of discussion and planning that went on with the with the Minneapolis Park board with the Mina Creek Watershed district and the City of Minneapolis all separate entities about how we uh you know the system that we wanted to use to to manage the flood control elements of the of the new ponds in Weber Park um so yes there is a system people know what that system is and there's a communication back and forth if there are any concerns about it Mr Mayor before we move on I do I do want to introduce Leah kooch Leah is an is an attorney with Campbell kutson and she is subbing tonight for Dave Kendall nice to meet you all nice to be here thanks thanks for being here with us um the next part of the agenda is the consent agenda there are a number of items that are typically handled on a single motion that are embraced within that consent agenda and um uh we want to remove I think item 6.7 uh council member Jackson wants to remove item 6.7 for discussion with the exception of item 6.7 is there a motion to adopt the items on the consent agenda and a single motion so mov D second jaction moves member Pierce second the adoption of the items on the consent agenda in a single motion with the exception of item 6.7 any further discussion all those in favor of adoption of the motion of stated say I I I opposed carried uh the consent agenda is approved with the exception of item 6.7 which we will turn to now and go to council member Jackson for her uh inquiry on that matter um yes thank you Mr Mayor so and why don't you explain what the matter is too so that that's clear I I shall um in April of 16th of 2024 we've received a petition from the White Oaks neighborhood and this is not the first time they've contacted us about sidewalks on 45th or 48th and 49th Street um it's there's parking on there it's very dangerous and they continue to have concerns and I I share those concerns um this is close to one of our um most friendly shopping districts um people walk there for the art fair and this was a request to have sidewalks put in in 2027 and with that being rejected there is no foreseeable path to sidewalk in the lifetime while the little kids are little um that's three years away and so I'm really concerned um about The Pedestrian safety on these two sidewalk or these two streets and um I wanted to revisit that so I see Mr CPM thank you member Jackson um so as I as I mentioned in the staff report we really identify yourself too for folks in the audience thank you thank you uh Andrew skion Transportation planner um what it really comes down to is our available budget and how we prioritize our projects we use a set of equity criteria right now that looks at uh characteristics of the neighborhood that looks at connectivity to transit to parks to schools um as well as uh how these projects tie into our pavment Management program uh and and what other funding opportunities are available so based on that there's a list of projects in the report that are noted as having higher priority based on those criteria those include facilities on France Avenue an Olinger Boulevard Wooddale Avenue and McCully Trail um so if we were to um uh move up construction of these sidewalks we would have to delay one of those one or more of those projects in order to accomodate it so I understand that um thank you for that explanation this is going to be access to our new Eline that's coming down France Avenue there's no Transit on the west side of town There's No Transit on Olinger Boulevard um and I know that that needs that's that near Countryside school but this is I I I just I I understand that you have a system for going through this I just really disagree strongly because this is a dangerous part of town that we're really promoting pedestrian um activity in and you know some of these other places there's a lot less pedestrian activity um of varied sorts and so even though I will lose the vote I don't approve of this because uh the White Oaks folks really um feel very passionately about the safety of these two streets and the sidewalk um situation so I wanted to pull it off are there other council members that uh want to address this issue understanding that we have a system in place uh just a higher level observation I guess is that um I've been on this Council long enough where I was here when in a period of time when really no neighborhood wanted sidewalks now we're getting more and more neighborhoods that want sidewalks which is a great thing to separate people from traffic so uh there are still parts of our town that probably don't need them because they're quiet and safe uh in with respect to roadway traffic particularly on the west side but this is a tight neighborhood over there I agree with council member Jackson I I was surprised when we weren't going to be able to respond to this request but uh nonetheless uh what you're requesting is that the um staff recommendation to proceed with the scheduled uh Mill and overlay of the roadway through White Oaks uh be um approved and that we defer sidewalk construction and Street narrowing to a later date yes that's correct right council member Pierce um so I I guess I don't I don't necessarily have an issue with that um but it makes me think about like process again so I don't know how we would make a decision to move White Oak up without having a conversation about everything that's in and why it's there and so to me it's just difficult today to just say yeah let's let's move it without having a deeper conversation and so I'm not quite sure how to do that but but I do think it's it could be warranted to have the conversation um and so I say all of that saying we may very well decide to stick with the staff report um but that's that's where my head is on it member richer um I agree with member Pierce and also just looking at the schedule of Road uh construction you know my eye has been on the president's area for a long time and I know that's coming up and you know sequencing is important however I do want to ask is there anything that could be done to encourage pedestrian safety that does not require the road construction like are there intermediate things that could be done between now and then signage or something I don't know I know Richfield they painted the roads for a safe Pathway to schools and I don't they actually painted the street I don't know if that could be a temporary thing or is there any kind of creative thing you could do uh sure thank you for the question um there are a number of temporary solutions we could try uh in the past we've painted temporary curb extensions for example we did that in the south cornelian neighborhood a few years a few years ago with limited success um Richfield for example has recently painted an on Street pedestrian facility on 69th Street um that's something we could look at we would I would want to engage with the neighborhood because that would have impacts to on street parking um but that's something we could potentially try in the next couple years and pilot it and see what the neighborhood how the neighborhood responds to it thank you yeah objection do you want to have a follow on I do I want to thank member rer for asking the question because yeah if there's anything we can do um I strongly encourage that to happen I I understand the process around Road reconstruction and I wasn't asking to interrupt that but I just wanted to say something on behalf of that neighborhood because it is an urgent issue for them and if we can find something that's short of Road reconstruction to make it safer I would really appreciate that acknowledging we can do right um member Pierce do you move the approval of the staff recommendation to proceed with scheduled overlay and defer sidewalk uh construction uh and Street narrowing into White Oaks neighborhood um yes no um close I so but then I have a question again and I I hate that I'm I'm doing this just we we're still on the consent agenda um I agree with member Risser saying it makes sense to look but how do we make sure that gets done so that's not what the the petition actually has that as line item number two saying can we incorporate Road cing techniques into the design but I think the way that was originally written they were thinking when you do the street construction reconstruction and so I would want to ask if we approve this I would want us to also say that we will go to the the neighborhood and see what other techniques we could do to alleviate the issue and so but that's not the way this resolution is written you want to address speed I mean we're talking speed and volume here so yes what calling measures can we employ uh well first I just wanted to clarify that the the request was to um T was to coordinate the timing of sidewalk installation with the overlay just want to be sure to differentiate between an overlay versus a full reconstruction okay but my Point's still the same so they the now we're saying we're not going to do any of that oh I'm sorry we're going to say we're going to leave it the way it is no we're going to do the overlay but we're not but we're not moving it up on the no but it's an overlay not a reconstruction understand that I'm with you on that okay so what I what we're proposing is that we proceed with the overlay in 27 that is scheduled as far as the sidewalk schedule that would fall into the current prioritization of sidewalks so right now that's outside of our projected six-year time frame uh so sometime after that we do re-evaluate that prioritization every year uh based on available funding and based on how the demographics of our community change um so there's a possibility that it could um come ahead come sooner in that prioritization um but as I mentioned also some of these projects we've already engaged with property owners on and we've already started preliminary design so if we were to delay those projects that would set that work back so I so staff recommends proceeding with scheduled overlay and defer sidewalk construction and Street narrowing as part of the future construction that's what's in here I am saying can we do y the the um the work to see if there are temporary ways that we could do calming to address some of the safety issues on that road and how do we do that given that this is the resolu the vote that's before us sure if you would like to give staff that direction we can come back to you at a later council meeting with more information on those specific costs and what impact they may have to the Pax fund um again this overlay is not scheduled for 27 so we do still have some time to make a definitive decision on it okay and we we can create a report and have that enclosed in a future packet for you and note it okay but I think that what I heard from member piery at least the inference in in member Jackson is sooner rather than later with respect to traffic calming so not to come back in a year and say well we could do this in 2026 I mean we're talking about right now what can we do about traffic calming in the White Oaks neighborhood to help them out so what's your answer to that um I'm sorry could you repeat the question what can we do now to assist with traffic calming in the White Oaks neighborhood until we get to the point where you're going to do the mill overlay in 2027 and then it gets sidewalked somewhere beyond that time uh that's something that as think was mentioned before our Traffic Safety Committee has looked at and based on the data that we've collected uh we didn't the Traffic Safety Committee didn't recommend any action at that time so the speeds are uh slightly above the posted 25 mile power hour speed limit but there are other areas in town where speeds are much higher than that and that's where we're trying to prioritize our efforts my my question was not about traffic calming it was about being in a stroller on a street where there's cars parked and you have to go into the middle of the street in order to take your kid for a walk if you want to go to the Walgreens you have to go down one of these streets and it's very dangerous and there cars parked there so it's not about traffic calming for me it's about a sidewalk substitute and member Risser threw out a couple of different interesting ideas and can you just come back to us and say these are some of the ideas for sidewalk faux sidewalks as it were and we looked at them and these are the tradeoffs that the neighborhood would face whether it's no parking you know or maybe no parking after 6:00 p.m. if it's business parking or whatever but come back to us with some options so that this neighborhood can walk to France and take the bus that's going to be there safely and it doesn't have to be Street reconstruction it doesn't have to be Street redesign but if there's something that we can do in the interim that will help improve the lives of this neighborhood which I I used to live in that neighborhood and that was 24 years ago and it's been a problem that entire time and it's just a very dangerous couple of streets for people on foot and um that's what I'm asking for is a staff ideas generation here are five ideas this is the cost these are the tradeoffs can we do something it doesn't have to be traffic calming but I'd like to see some sort of way way for pedestrians to get safely across those that area of town and that's my request yeah we can certainly prepare a report like that and bring it back to you that's terrific thank you let me see if I can reframe a motion that might be acceptable so uh the action requested uh would be to approve the staff recommendation to proceed with scheduled overlay in 2027 uh into first sidewalk construction of Street narrowing uh to a subsequent schedule but on an inter basis direct staff to come back with some ideas uh to enhance safety uh in the White Oaks neighborhood so moved okay by member Pierce a tie on the second give to Julie member rer thank you uh any further discussion all those in favor of adoption of the motion to state to say I I I opposed carried all right that completes the uh items on the consent agenda for for us this evening and uh thanks for being here Mr cipion um next on the agenda is something we typically have on the agenda and you we've got special recognitions and presentations coming up there's a couple items on here uh and we're going to get a really interesting report uh in the second part of this section of the agenda on the Fred Richards uh Park master plan work that's been going on but we have been uh over the past several months bringing all of the state champions into City Hall to kind of celebrate them whether it's a team or individuals and we actually ran out of time before school ended uh but we're fortunate tonight we we have a chance to both recognize the Adina high school debate team but we have a state individual state champion with us tonight dvar barah and his mother uh and the coach Joseph Schmidt is here as well and uh so want to give have you come up we want to give you a hearty round of congratulations seeing seeing the coach with his suit and tie on just like some of us do on a regular basis that reminded me went over to the we went over to the state legislature with all the winning teams robotics debate uh hockey girls hockey boys it was uh bad Mitten all these people in the house Chambers and uh the people that were dressed up the best were The Debaters not just the coach but The Debaters I think they all had sport coats and ties on and they were totally comfortable in that environment the hockey players not so much they they were looking around wondering where's the exit I got to get out of here I got too much energy to deal with this but the The Debaters were there and uh we had some wonderful group photos with Heather Edelson and so uh coach El I'll let you talk a little bit about your state champion debater and then we'll let uh we'll let this young man Mr bah talk about uh his success uh sure so there are four major types of debate uh in Minnesota um one of the types of debate is Congressional debate which dvar participated in and he was the state champion I'll note also that he is a junior so he is a returning state champion who will be competing next year his senior year his teammate prika Kumar was second she is a sophomore I guess she's a rising Junior now so she'll be back as well um and they'll both be I hope competing at the state tournament uh in Congressional debate next year uh we also had competitors compete and uh advance to the quarterfinals or semi-finals or finals in the other three types of debate uh in Lincoln Douglas debate uh adid ja was as a freshman in the final round and Valerie Schmidt as a sophomore was in the semi-final round uh in policy debate Joe Adam and koshik Chava were uh in the semi-finals and they are uh Juniors so they're back and finally in public forum debate we had Clare watts and stie slobin who as Juniors uh were in the quarterfinals so all four types of debate those people are all back and we'll uh be looking to see how they do this next year and our champion is dvar thank you coach dvar welcome congratulations again sorry what did you say congratulations again oh thank you very much it means a lot to me to be here so thank you very much any comment for the council or for the residents are going to be able to watch this watch you on well member Jackson has a question for you yeah yeah tell me a little bit about what did you speak about in the competition so the type of debate that I do is called Congressional debate so we essentially simulate being members of the US Congress and we debate on particular pieces of legislation that were given so specifically in the state tournament in the preliminary session we had around 16 different bills that we were given and that was a lot of research but we talked about either on the pro or against and in the final round specifically the two pieces of legislation that I personally debated on was one a bill to remove sanctions on the country of Venezuela and the second bill that I debated on was a bill to implement rank Choice voting systems all across the United States wow that's a range I know congratulations wow thank you all right we're going to come down and have a photo I'm going to bring the rest of the council members with me so we can we can have a photo with you and then we're going to have your mother come up all right good friends he's not going to be very happy about that [Applause] you're welcome well that was fun that's a great young guy um all right let's go to the uh Fred Richards Park master plan and um bring going to bring up Prairie veter our park and rec director who's going to lead off the conversation thank you Mayors and Council uh this evening before you we are going to review the engagement and preliminary design for the Fred Richard Park master plan uh hopefully it is less complex than sanctions on Venezuela so hopefully you enjoy this evening what a great honor uh what a great award and uh participation uh so just a little bit of background Fred's Park is being created out of the old Richards Golf uh golf course it's a 43 Acre Site uh that site is bisected by the 9M Creek Regional Trail uh that was a partnership between the city of Edina 9mile Creek Watershed district and Three Rivers Park District the master plan itself was adopted in uh July of 2017 and it has come to fruition because of a voter approved referendum for local option sales tax here in Idina there are three goals for our park that came out of the referendum that's to restore Nature's role with a wetland banking system to create Pathways for play and health with a Great Lawn and loop area and to invite the whole Community with a central green so tonight you'll hear uh more details about our refined design how the community has been engaged and how we found a path forward with our Regulatory Agencies uh this project is being led by Rachel finberg our Parks planner and our request and our design team from influence uh we have one request for you tonight is that to provide us feedback and uh comments on the design so we can move work towards implementation so we're not asking you for any uh Vote or motion this evening uh so next I'd like to introduce Terry Manar and mo conry from Confluence and they will review the frit Park plan thank you director rer I thanks uh mayor counsel thank you for having us tonight um Terry Minar a principal of Confluence in Minneapolis office and and I'm Mo conre I'm a landscape architect at Confluence as well great thank you for having us well we're super excited about this project um you know we started this project in 2016 uh it's been in the works I think we wrapped up the master plan in 2018 and then waited for the powers to be to make uh make the referendum happen and now we're envisioning this uh in its full scale so I don't know if you remember uh the original plan some of you may have seen it before if not it's part of your packet tonight but the original plan talked about a lot of the principles that Perry was mentioning earlier on um the unique think about this is the existing Golf Course was kind of sinky that's built on you know kind of a spongy more marshy type historical property so what we were thinking of doing in that original concept was to convert that back to a nature Wetland Bank um and actually use it as part of a wetland bank for the county um which will generate revenue for the city as well but also creating this kind of uh unique Natural Area within the heart of Edina and within the heart of an urban core of a city um and and making it it back into its best used purpose um the other side of the site we're looking at programming that more for people people social interaction activation health and wellness Recreation so a lot of things Perry talked about with the trails and and the walking paths but also some smaller kind of passive Recreation we have no activated sports or programmed Sports here it's more about passive interactive Recreation and then we were planning kind of a very unique inclusive playground that was themed around some of those basic things uh there was another component of this that went up to the north we kind of always called it the Panhandle that area was kind of seen as maybe a loop trail could have a maybe a bike skills course or something but uh over time and and revisiting the project now as we come back to it we've began to take a look at a lot of uh different opportunities so as you can see this was kind of some of the ideas with the Wetland Bank to kind of excavate this would also help local uh flood storage um for larger events as well um the cross-section kind of shows what that idea and thought was um actually working with the authorities and our ecologists and our Engineers uh we've kind of refined that in the way of form and I was quite surprised that Wetland Banks aren't always full of water they're actually mostly Meadow and and open open space but that's something that we learned as part of the process so we refined the plan uh we took another look at it after meeting with the authorities um uh the watersheds and n and and uh um some of the um AR US Army Core engineers and those sorts they they were kind of talking to us about well you're you're covering up some of the existing uh you know basins of water that have become Wetlands over time that were part of the golf course can we not do that um you can kind of see in the previous plan if you look uh primarily like right in the middle there where there's water showing we were showing kind of more of a central green and different things there as well so what we did is we went back and looked at the plan and they really challenged us to kind of Identify some other opportunities and we actually thought it made the project better we think the project is getting better from this so not only with the Wetland bank and how we're approaching that but also with what we've done within the park space as well so we made transformations to the playground it's become a lot more longer and lineal it has a real strong nature theme um the repurpose of the existing Clubhouse has kind of become secondary now we have a central Pavilion that we're looking at but the clubhouse will still be repurposed um the central lawn is slightly shifted the larger um more active lawn and Hill for sledding has become a little more morphic so it even more so reduces the use for larger Athletics but also creates a lot more pockets for activity the Panhandle has become a food Forest which we're very excited about it'll be a sanctuary for Birds but also a place for people to forage and actually eat food throughout the space at different times of the year and then our parking has really become a lot more Consolidated and actually extends further into the park which allows people to get closer to the activities and not have to walk from our perimeter so all these things in combination I think have really improved the plan over time so so some of the things was uh reorienting that entry Drive uh we did get approvals to have that new Entry Road construction I think it was a few months ago that was actually passed here so that's been built and construction so that it provides us a grand new entry to Fred Richards as you know before it came through a parking lot of an existing apartment and office space building so it really wasn't an identified space so that really helps in kind of identifying the entry to the park uh the flex lawn kind of got smaller um we had to deal with building some spaces over existing uh um water treatment facilities as well so kind of working in around those it's kind of a mixed bag uh mixed pallet on this as well and then also um the maintenance building we were actually removing that and kind of coming up with a more Consolidated uh maintenance type of solution here as well again bike skills replaced with the food Forest bird sanctuary uh the boardwalk we found out um through the Wetland process that we had to kind of have a light touch on what we're doing there so we kind of reduced the size of the boardwalk made it more of a contained Loop that's separate from 9M Creek Trail which makes it actually more beneficial show for people to kind of engage and have interpretive aspects to it and keeps them safe from bike pedestrian traffic and then um like I said with the clubhouse uh we we we could repurpose it in some way we are going to repurpose it and use it for a meeting space uh maybe a trail head for 9M Creek uh we'll still use those restrooms but we realize we need more accessible restrooms um that can accommodate some of the modern conveniences that are needed but also that type of space and just creating a whole new space for Activation and Gathering there may be a food opportunity there as well so I think it really helped us and kind of redevelop the plan so um these are some of the images just some quick um modeling of it you can kind of see that Central Open lawn the new park pavilion the larger Flex lawn and the sledding hill in the background 9 Mile Creeks kind of on the left side of this the new parking lot over to the right we do have pickle balls still that we're maintaining here some basketball courts that relate well to the existing Park and that Community that's over on the east and then the activated play area that has a variety of different sensor and inclusion things that Mo will talk a little bit about here as well and just another shot kind of showing some of these things and some of the possible uses and activation of this space so I'll let Mo take over thanks Terry so a big kind of very special component of this park um I know one that we're particularly excited to work on is this unique play opportunity um we are developing it as a allinclusive nature play Space um and what that means is is it's basically going to have Play features and accessible routes for every single Park user no matter your age or ability um this is actually quite challenging to do in terms of nature play so nature play is usually defined as a space that has natural elements down logs wood mulch things like that things that might be in conflict with our best practices around Ada accessibility but we know that nature play in and of itself is extremely beneficial to all of us so part of our challenge for this project is how we blend those two needs in one space to make a fully inclusive nature play Space so um this goes through kind of how some examples some precedents that we're looking at and some play equipment in particular that we are looking at potentially using in the park it's still being developed so we will be actually coming back with more information on that later but just to give you an idea of General character so you can see a lot of natural materials uh the use of topography uh for a play element in and of itself and a particularly special thing for this park is the use of sensory Play Elements so this is particularly valuable for um individuals of neurodiversity but it benefits each and every one of us so how we see the world how we hear the world how we move through space um there are Play features that really help us come and connect with those uh senses so I know we went into some detail on this earlier this is just giving you an overview of what this could look like so it's actually going to be a living system so it's going to take some time to develop the first few years it's really going to look very um open I shall say lots of mud lots of plant starts but over time um within actually just a few years it's really going to fill into a beautiful Meadow so this was a key component of talking to the community of you're not going to have a Rose Garden overnight in your backyard it is a living system that's going to take some time but it is going to be beautiful um and Terry also introduced the Wetland bank and Panhandle this is um another key ecological feature of the site um we're using the existing topography to our advantage in this um space in particular so it's built uh with in a bit of a um low a low line area thanks um and so this is great for birds in particular so we're going to be uh planting some uh Native Edible Landscaping so things like maple trees that could be used for maple syrup raspberries mulberries American hazelnuts things that people could go and kind of learn about foraging but also U benefits the birds as well in the same vein as the health and accessibility um we are really pulling this accessibility throughout the entire park so we are having key access points but areas for people to rest and um pull off the trail maybe take a little space if they get a little overwhelmed by their uh sensory conditions of the park um but really making sure that we're carrying that through in all of our best practices in Design This is just a slide showing the character that we're trying to achieve so we're using a lot of natural um images as our inspiration thinking about how we use wood and metal we are also going to be pursuing a site certification for sustainability so this ties into that overall vision of connecting to Nature so over the past two months the wonderful City staff here has gone um out into the community and shared where we're at in the process uh the community actually saw the very slides that we're looking at here over the past again few months um all around it was a very positive feedback that we've heard um I think the biggest thing that we that was kind of carried through as a theme was that people really appreciated that they felt that the park design is in the spirit of what the master plan was so we heard you know connection to Nature Health and Wellness accessibility we're carrying that through and we hope to do that to the end as well so where we are in the schedule so we are in schematic design design development so we are basically taking the master plan and developing in more detail giving it materials giving it shape giving it form um we're going to be basically doing that through the end of the year and we hope to move into Construction in the spring of 2025 we like to put an aster with this in that we are going through the regulatory process as well and going to construction is dependent on that so this is our current schedule um at the moment but just as a a thought all right yeah if you have any questions or comments we'd love to help you oh thank you I I remember um I think maybe several of us were out there July 8th session you had at Centennial Lakes was so well attended and people were so positive so I want to really thank you for the excellent work that you've done in U being responsive to what folks in our community thought would be important elements building some of those things in and really creating something on that 42 Acres that it's astounding and um and thank goodness our voters said we could use local option sales tax to uh to do this work and it's going to be a fabulous amenity so yes thank you Mr Mayor so first of all this is spectacular thank you so much I'm like I want to go play um it's just wonderful um and and all the thoughtfulness that went into it and I want to thank everybody who showed up to give comments it was interesting listening to what other people were saying too I was like wow that's really a thoughtful thing so it's high quality engagement um the question I have for you is we have a cost limit that we can spend on this that was limited by the voters and that's the process for getting the local option sales tax how are we doing with it staying within that budget with this design yeah it's interesting because you know we came with some of these Concepts and we got to a schematic design 30% level and the city was like okay where we at with cost so so we put together some some costing based on some of our current uh construction numbers and and you know people we know in the industry and we actually came in really close um I think you know with some juggling we'll be right at the number but we're slightly over a little bit right now where we where we thought we would be but um I think it came in relatively close and I think we can make modifications to the plan and the layout I we we we oversized a few things just you know with anticipation of trying to make this the greatest thing ever you know so we can dial those back a bit but still not lose a lot of the functionality and the excitement and the the uh the amenities that it offers to the space so but moving forward we'll actually be engaging a professional like level cost estimating uh construction management type group to kind of give us more even accurate numbers as we move forward so we're close but we're not perfectly tied out on every penny yet yes okay very good thank you so much all right yeah remember Pierce go ahead thank you um so I had three questions um this is I mean it looks fabulous it kind of makes me think about like Disneyland or something when I see it um so um really nice job so I got three questions uh and this is a great slide for these um the quiet Zone entry like how do you have a quiet Zone what is a quiet Zone in the context of all the other activity that you've got going on there that's a great question um so kind of a little background of why we included it um because it is going to be a playground that we're looking for more inclusion around neurodiversity we wanted to create areas of different basically volumes so when you typically enter a a playground it's just kind of a wall of sound right um and so we do have a primary entrance you can see the general entry there we aligned all of the pathways to really direct and funnel people there but for those families that might need a little bit softer entry into the playground we added that second entry it's to the South and I'll actually go back a couple of slides um it is located just kind of to the left of 14 whereas most people will be entering kind of around 12 up here so again it's just kind of a soft Landing there's not going to be any rules around this we're using kind of design strategies to really guide people there it's going to be a little smaller scale so that's not where your eyes is going to be and we're going to be actually developing signage as a big component of this um that's one of the things we heard from our accessibility group that we are working on who's going to be reviewing the these designs is communication is key so um that's basically how we're going to Market okay all right thank you um um second question you have outlined go back to the other you've got you've got the Ada routes um on here right uh my question is in the different zones how are we making sure those zones are Ada uh accessible I guess yeah I can start but like most of all of the surfacing that we're proposing and using in this playground area design is a port in place we may have some other sensory areas like sand if we have a little water play area or we might use some wood chips under some certain areas just to give the diversity of experience but we're also using the topography as Mo said to our advantage to be able to create the accessibility to like the tower so by us being able to C circulate around the perimeter of the play area we can get up to a higher level actually cross over into the Gathering space to get to the slides but also have a higher elevation access into the tower we wanted to avoid the idea of ramps ramps ramps ramps and get everybody around so we wanted to feel like it was a natural process I think the biggest thing we could try to achieve here would be this is a playground and you don't notice any of the special things we're doing to make it special for everybody but we want everybody to be able to experience it the same way so if we don't consciously make efforts that say well there's a ramp for somebody in a wheelchair to get up but hey here's a really cool way to get to the Tower right whether you're in a wheelchair or not you know that's part of the experience so if we can make a playground that nobody can even tell that we've done anything I think we're going to check the box on that but I don't know if you want to add to that but yeah just to support that um going into the kind of the details of this the actual play equipment too so we are working with some great Fabricators some manufacturers of play equipment that basically do hidden accessibility um features throughout it again it doesn't stand out but you can read it as such so uh there's places for people to transfer out of wheelchairs there is areas that kids can go and kind of tuck in that are a little more enclosed um so kind of following those best practices once you actually get to the equipment as well I so I love that concept so uh thank you for that explanation um and then the last question is just a maintenance question when you described and this is probably just because of the way you described the Wetland and the nature playground did I say that right what's I assume the maintenance of that is different from the park you know at um any other city park that we have and so what's the maintenance requirement for something the Wetland bank and the playground are separated you kind of by Ile Creek Trail the Wetland bank will have actually have a maintenance kind of process that it's part of it's part of actually creating a wetland bank I think it's like a five-year process so you have to do certain things over time to make sure it's you know limited with weed growth and it's developing the way it's supposed to be Reed if things aren't taking so there's a process to that Wetland Bank maintenance once it is established then there is still a maintenance process because it's a wetland bank so you got to make sure that it's still operating as a designed Wetland bank so there is a process to that to that that component um some of the existing Wetlands on here will just be maintaining actually be enhancing a lot of them they filled in with a lot of sediment over time so actually be cleaning them up getting rid of a lot of the invasives there's a lot of Buckthorn in around them and invasive species so we'll be cleaning all those up and making them a lot more higher quality Wetlands as part of this process but then Within the play um we're hoping with the rubber surfacing and a lot of the attention to detail of the circulation through the space that the maintenance will be easier and then working with City staff we've kind of talked about their key access points what type of vehicles they'll be using to get through the site how they need to get to the water treatment plant and service that as well uh where they can be able to store maintenance vehicles and then just in general kind of trying to improve the overall access and maintainability of the site excellent thank you nice work thank you cber rer um thank you can we go to the this is a great place to start and there's so much wonderful um equipment and things that you're doing right here and um I really appreciate that can you go to the overall view that shows um the secondary entrances other way that's it um this is okay I think there was another one where there were little orange dots but this is fine um my concern is when we look at the playground that exists right now playground um represented by the letter A over on parkon um the bridge and I haven't been there for a couple of years but it's really kind of hard to negotiate and it rises up is there a plan to replace that bridge the bridge is actually in decent condition but we are going to kind of do what we can to make it look and feel better the biggest issue with the bridge currently is the grade access to the bridge it's kind of sunken and dropped as you try to enter onto the bridge plus all of the overgrowth of the Buckthorn and understory around it we'll be cleaning all that up we're actually going to make that Wetland one which is technical term we're going to make that one actually a lot more um uh higher quality Wetland where we're going to take down some of the slope increase the water depth because it's s silted over silted over over time um so that access point to that bridge and across that bridge it will be a lot more defined and a lot more accessible than it is currently will it be ADA Compliant yeah okay yeah thank you the whole site is we've defined the whole site to be ADA compliance even the boardwalk itself okay good other questions that prompt anything else all right yeah well thanks for the great work you're doing thank you Mr monar yep thank you Miss conry for being here as well and director verer thanks for bringing the folks in and everybody thank you for the uh good work that's going on we're really appreciative of it and I know our residents are as well all right um another exciting thing to talk about coming up in the next section of the agenda the reports and recommendations portion of it you know we've got a lot of really generous people in our community and and one of our longtime residents uh General Denny schulstad a few years ago his wife passed away his wife Pam passed away and and um they loved their Golden Retriever and we ended up I think uh just a year or so ago with a beautiful golden retriever sculpture uh at Centennial Lakes and uh and we're so appreciative of that and then he came up with another idea uh to make a another major gift to our community and Tiffany Bushland where is Tiffany there she is couldn't quite see her behind the monitor um I know we've got General schad with us here we want to bring him up I think you want to talk a little bit about him and then we'll have him come up and talk about what caused him to think about this in addition to what he's done already at Centennial Lakes thank you manager of Centennial Lakes Park and I'm honored to be here today uh with Dennis schad who desires to make an artwork donation to the city of adod to be placed at Centinal eges Park the artwork is titled stealth and it is 8ft tall gray her and statue uh made of stainless steel it is absolutely beautiful um and we uh Dennis Denny and I have found a wonderful place along the southern Channel at Centennial a park to place this statue um and let me tell you uh I just Denny's generosity to the community and to the visitors of stin Park is just wonderful we are very honored to to have him in our community and it's just really really great to have him here um Denny saw this artwork at the Minnesota Landscape Arboretum and he reached out to the mayor and myself and said hey can we place that at Centennial Lakes Park and how cool is that that he saw this in the Comm out at the Landscape Arboretum and decided to to purchase this artwork for uh for to be placed at Centon Lakes Park if um if you guys do accept that so um so Denny is here in the audience have you got a slide Miss Bush I do have a picture of the oh yeah let's oh beautiful so yeah we'll be um uh September 9th is the uh the planned install um if this is approved uh the artist will be in town for the her show at the landscape barbarum and will help with the installation process and um Denny has generously donated um to pour a concrete pad for the for the place while this will sit so all right Denny you want to come up we want to I I have nothing does a great job with the we're going to we're going to drag you up here momentarily I think just to help celebrate uh we're going to pass this resolution and have you come up so we can celebrate you a little bit uh for this generous contribution so we've got a resolution in front of us of course we know that when we get a a proposed gift we have to accept it with a super majority vote vote so resolution 2024 53 accepts this donation uh on behalf of the city of by General Denny schad uh to the city its artwork valued at $28,000 and there's some preparation costs he's going to cover as well uh we've got a great location for it so is there a motion to approve resolution 2024-25 $100 for artart artwork and installation from Dennis W schad so move second Risser moves member Jackson second the adoption of resolution 2024 53 any further discussion all those in favor of adoption of resolution 2024 d53 say I I I opposed carried it's a done deal come on up Denny come on up who want to thank you well I just hope that this encourages other people to contribute to public art uh I have no artistic ability and but I can write a check and so we can hire somebody else to do it and I think this would be a nice addition to uh Centennial Lakes and Tiffany does such a good job of maintaining and improving that wonderful Park area thank you Mr May oh hold on D yeah tell us a story about we were at the landscape barbarum I'm sorry I don't hear very well okay you were at the Landscape Arboretum and you're walking around tell us what what Drew this to you what you saw it and and what moved you about the Statue well I I go to the Arboretum quite often and this was a traveling exhibit okay and uh and the artist is moving everything out on September 9th and I thought Jay wouldn't it be nice to have this stay and be at Centennial Lakes and so uh so I talked to made it donation to The arum and bought the piece of art from the artist wow thank you so much and Tiffany made it very easy for me to do it great all right thanks Denny thanks another round of [Applause] applause all right we have one other um donation to deal with this evening and that is from Tom Matson a memorial bench at rosin Park valued at 32 $0000 that's embodied in resolution 202454 uh so is there a motion to adopt resolution 202454 which would accept the uh donation of the funds for the Memorial Park Bench at Rosland Park by Tom Matson so move so move second uh member Pierce moves M Jackson seconds uh the adoption resolution 202454 dealing with the uh donation of $3,200 by Tom Matson for Memorial bench at Rosen park any further discussion all those in favor of adoption of resolution 202454 say I I I oppose carried resol resolution 202454 is adopted and we thank Tom Matson uh and we'll get a letter out to him and general schad as well thanking them on behalf of the city of viina um the next matter in this portion of the agenda the reports and recommendations portion of the agenda is something we've been working on for a while it's been through the Planning Commission and that's resolution 20245 and ordinance number 20245 uh which is preliminary site plan review and zoning ordinance Amendment proposed for 7200 France Avenue our community development director Carrie Teague has the introduction on the matter and we've got uh some of the applicants here to answer questions and uh we've had some of our residents uh send in questions uh remember Jackson and I met with some of the residents last night for I don't know an hour and a half or so and and uh we we embodied their questions and brought them back and some of them I think are in the the writing that was submitted uh from one of our residents and uh I think you've had that in your position and prepared to address some of those issues as well so let's go ahead and have you make your presentation and then we'll think about addressing some of these issues thank you I I will thank you mayor uh members of the council so as mentioned this is a preliminary site plan it is for fa Phase 2 of PUD 16 the zoning that was uh placed on this site back in 20123 this would be first reading of that ordinance Amendment um that amends that PUD 16 zoning District the changes that are proposed within that ordinance would be reducing the first floor height from 16 ft to 14 ft and then incorporating this site plan into the ordinance with puds the site plans essentially become the the zoning this is what has to be built with the site so the phase two would be placed uh into the ordinance as well the current ordinance allows up to a 72 foot tall building for phase two phase one the height limit is 76 feet that was a decision again that was made back in 2023 as part of that PUD Amendment the ordinance does not regulate the number of stories and that's that's one of the issues uh that's been raised by the by by the resident so I'll touch on some of those um first is that that um story issue so when the preliminary resoning was established in 2022 the resolution did call for a f story and 72ft tall building on for phase two at final approval however the resolution stated that that it would be six stories and 72 ft the overall height didn't change part of the um the five stories versus six six stories um can still be accommodated within the 72t height limitation given the use that's proposed the residential use uh the office adjacent to it um the ceilings for medical use can be higher but some just hold there m rer has a question for you I think while you're talking about that issue it's concerning to me that resolution 20 22-8 and resolution 20 23-11 are not identical and I don't understand how we can have language that says it will be limited to five stories and that came out of an extensive dialogue that happened and I listen to all of the meetings the meeting in September the early meeting in October the meeting in uh in mid October um I was not on city council then but it was very clear that the ask was for 72 feet and five stories and Better Together the description said five stories 72 ft um I reached out to the suncurrent to find out what the ad was for the public hearing uh so I could see the language that was published presumably at the beginning of September uh and one of the things that I really find amazing is that so few people came forward they commented on better together but this is a very organized neighborhood and I can't help but wonder if seeing five stories was something that they felt to be comforting and so I'm wondering how how first off specific question how is it that Council can pass a resolution after extensive discussion and then when the resolution comes back months later and it's placed on the consent agenda it changes so that the stipulation number 20 goes from five stories to six how can that happen it's not uncommon for projects to change slightly from preliminary to final um but the ORD itself I'm talking about a resolution I'm not talking about a project this is a formal resolution that was voted on right there was a preliminary approval and when it comes back for final there oftentimes are changes from the preliminary plan this this was one of them and but nobody was notified of that there was no notification to elected officials there you know was and and when this was pitched um to to the public it was always five stories so if if we do presumably in the future we should look at public hearing definitions with a grain of salt and go oh yeah that's what is being asked for and even if they pass a resolution it could change is that is that the way things I mean is that maybe we can talk to our attorney is that standard protocol so a resolution is a written form of a motion it's not like an ordinance that requires specific edits to it um my understanding is is that it was a preliminary resolution initially and then through conversations with the developer became final and was on the public agenda but from the legal perspective we have no concerns with um what's being presented tonight from staff's perspective okay so just to be clear after dialogue after public hearing it passes with this language and then when it gets on the consent agenda it's not even highlighted as a change on the consent agenda so we as elected officials need to go line by line through every single document to make sure that there aren't any changes that have happened because they're not called to our attention when was the 72t height limitation adopted it might be helpful or instructive yeah it was part of the preliminary approval 72 was the max at preliminary and at final that was on October 18 of 2022 correct as well as the first reading of the ordinance 72t correct then it went to in finals six stories 72 feet correct and but the ordinance didn't spell out specifically the number of stories just the maximum height it was in the resolution but not in the ordinance it correct five and 72 and then it's correct final resolution was 6 and 72 but the ordinance was 72 correct is that what you're saying yes okay they cause anything further M uh the ordinance that I looked at published by the city of Edina three days ago still reflected the project that had the town homes so it was never updated yes the ordinance currently if you notice the numbering within the puds are out of sequence we we've got an issue with the with the codifier we'll work to straighten that out within the um within the zoning code that's posted on the website but in am I interpreting what you're saying correctly that in in the context of making final approval there was also an ordinance approved that's correct that deals with a 70 foot 702 foot issue and that's that was that was that February 7 of 2023 2023 that that is correct yes but that you granted or we granted final approval of zoning ordinance Amendment that's correct okay go ahead other questions that came up have been in regard to just the process so the applicant has followed the Pud process it is a long process we're two years in so following specifically uh can be confusing we've held the city has held four public hearings two for the initial um PUD changes to the site back in 2022 and back in 2022 and then the two public hearings that have been held here for this phase two uh site plan review um they've also done a number of neighborhood meetings uh with the neighborhood and a couple of uh sketch plans you recall that after the the uh 2023 approval the applicant did come in with a sketch plan to consider a hotel on the site um they decided not to pursue that use um another issue that came up is in regard to direct entry on France Avenue and 72nd Street the intent there is when speaking about direct entry it's in regard to The Pedestrian access to the front of the building that's an issue that we've um often talked about with development along France it was not intended to be a veh vehicular access um to the front of the building especially on France Avenue where henpen County really does not want to see a vehicular access in 2023 uh we got an email from uh the the then Transportation planner at that time uh stating that County staff are strongly supported of all site accesses uh directed onto Gallagher and 72nd We Believe removal of the direct access to France Avenue will significantly benefit traffic traffic operations pedestrian comfort and overall safety we uh staff verified with current staff uh County staff and they provided an email essentially stating the same thing that access should be provided from side streets to benefit track traffic operations pedestrian comfort and overall safety along France Avenue connecting the new development to Gallagher Drive will allow access to traffic signals on France Avenue and connecting it to 72nd Street will also provide additional Transportation options in and out uh another issue that's been raised is in regard hold on member rer may have a question on that particular matter I have read you know not a ton of resolutions but your interpretation that it's not referring to vehicular access that it's referring to the design of the building makes me wonder if you can point me in the direction of any other resolution um where it gets that granular because what is stated in the verbage we don't talk about building design we talk about the site and so that interpretation and we did also have a resident who submitted a letter that included a diagram that showed that the previous and in fact this would be the ordinance that is reflected today in our code U had a plan that had vehicular access from France and that was for the grocery store concept so it's it's hard for me to see the um Merit of the argument that this is about doors on a building um and not about a road accessing the s can you help me out there a little bit or point me to another resolution where that was the case I I don't have another resolution in front of me just generally speaking that that has been a condition that we've put on on projects along France where we want um access from the public sidewalk into the front buildings Jackson yes thank you Mr Mayor so when I was going through documents there are a lot of documents to go through but one one of them in September and in the ordinance or the resolution that we passed said according to the plans submitted to the the city is what would be um in the ordinance eventually and in the plans submitted to the city on September 20th 2022 there is a site access map and I believe this is what we depended upon when we wrote the ordinance and the site access map shows access coming in through 72nd and through gallaghar and there's no vehicular access off of France so I think you know this was in the public hearing this was before the public at the time of the initial approval and the way I read the document was that the details are in the submission from the developer and the submission from the developer showed that um access vehicular access would come through these side streets and that reference there's no reference to vehicular access on France to this development that is correct thank you for for pointing that out what what I believe council member R is referring to is the 2019 approvals uh for a PUD on the site that never happened there was to be a direct access off of France Avenue the county wasn't real excited about it they first said no we're not going to permit that access um but they later um did agree to that access so that was part of the original 2019 PUD that was amended with the 2023 PUD Mr Mayor yes um so I member Pi thank you Mr Mayor um director T I appreciate you going through this um the content here I it but it does I I'm just it I don't what the right right word is I don't know how we can go forward and approve a resolution with this amount of lack of clarity on what should or should be in the resolution and what we're doing now is we're going to start a process where we're trying to to clarify this um as we go forward in order to do a vote and so I I asked questionss earlier um like what dictates in a process where we start over where we say all right right there's been too many changes so to make sure that we get this right we need to go back to the beginning and start that process over and I ask that question in Earnest because it's not um I don't think it's fair necessarily to a developer to do to do that but in all honesty that's like that's kind of where I am because there's so many things that have changed and I know we have a criteria that says um if the changes are minor then we have the ability as a council to just take those changes accept those and then move forward um but so much has changed here we've also changed function right there was a hotel now it's an apartment complex I get we're saying it's 72 ft it's the same height um but it's six stories and not five so I we can do a table that that shows that which is typically what we do um but am I the only one that feels uncomfortable with that level of of lack of clarity with this remember Richard feel I I I share your feelings of being uncomfortable and I I'm looking at the Better Together page and the description it says this project would be developed in two phases the first phase would be the construction of a fivestory 124,125 approval Phase 2 would include a similar size building in height and square footage and so yeah okay it doesn't say the number of stories but you know to the person the average person at you know we have our whole building height overlay map we talked about that you look at that you look at the key or the legend and it's 12 feet for every story and so you know people see 5T this one here the off office it's 72 instead of 60 but you know you have to read so carefully and so critically and you have to constantly say what does this really mean and maybe this means something that I'm not thinking about um maybe it's not going to be a five story building maybe it's going to be a six story maybe it's going to be a seven story building who knows you know um and it just I I feel like that is so opaque and residents need to not have have to con you know be looking at things and wondering what does this mean you know and and sometimes I feel like I'm up here asking questions and I need to figure out the magic way to ask the question in order to get a straight answer and that is really really hard and I I feel like when I've been communicating with residents they share that sense of frustration um so yeah I I think we are on the same page member Jackson yes thank you so I went back through the documents again um today after our meeting yesterday and what we were told last or in the fall of 2022 would is that there would be most likely a residential building with 150 units and some retail this is proposed 153 units and no retail and the retail was dropped because of the parking requirements and the traffic concerns so 150 units plus retail versus 153 units I don't find to be radically different 72 feet versus 72 feet um you know we're not talking about we're talking about three more Apartments than what was initially proposed to us in 2022 um this is difficult to have to do it in phases I understand that um but unless we ban phase development this is the way it's going to work um the site plan was laid out and there was a box and then it said it's most likely going to be apartments with some retail it's going to be mixed use and then the apartment was or the retail was dropped out and I don't find that to be radically different from what was proposed to me yeah member Pierce any add-on thoughts um no no no no okay yeah well I'm sure you'll have more of it so as we go through with director Teague um so just by way of background again we we had a resolution that had been approved um but the exist there's an existing PUD there right and the existing PUD would allow two six-story buildings uh with 299 units of Housing and 30,000 square ft of uh retail and 10 owner occupied town houses that that was that was the 2019 PUD that was never developed the current application was it was my point was it was approved but never developed correct yeah yes that but so that's the current PUD that was an approved PUD that was an approved PUD that was amended in 2023 for the current project proposed by Mr Carlson and that includes the 76 foot tall office building phase one and then phase two was to be as uh council member Jackson pointed out 150 units of housing with 10,000 square fet of retail okay all right go ahead and go keep going I think we'll probably have many more questions here yeah the next is in regard to the traffic study U Mr Ed terhar who prepared the traffic study is with us this evening if you have any specifics in that regard he's here to answer as well uh but the study did conclude that no um roadway improvements are needed uh with this project that included the no left turn onto 72 however if the if the Council believes that is an important issue um the city uh engineer had informed me that a sanitary sewer project is required in this area that's going to require a full uh Street reconstruction there at 72nd so at that time the city could put in I don't know exactly the shape it would have to be studied something that would prevent that no left uh onto to 70 to 72nd another question that came up was in regard to part oh go ahead go ahead cuz my comment will probably cover both of these okay in regard to parking um and so there are parking requirements established as part of this PUD it's really based on the parking study again that was done by stantech um it concluded that uh 468 parking stalls are required this project would provide 470 structured parking stalls with 13 on the surface so both phases can be accommodated this phase two underneath the apartments is going to provide some parking for the office building to the South so there would be cross access easements uh but the parking uh is satisfied um per code another uh issue that came up is 460 required and how many provided between the two buildings 468 are required and between the two buildings there are 470 structur structured stalls and 13 surface so it's just over what's required in the Pud all right thanks so my question then on um traffic and parking is I like sometimes I think we're asking the wrong question so if we're going to go through and do the analysis based on the criteria and the analysis says we don't need to make any changes um I just sometimes I think that's the wrong question and so what what I um would love to have us do is to ask the question if we want to reduce cut through traffic if we want to minimize overflow parking then run an AI model and give us the three and I'm making up to number three but give us the options in order to achieve that for traffic patterns and then we could have that information information to be able to make a decision on what kind of requirements we want to make on traffic and so I I don't think that's the way we do it today correct but that would be my my ask correct we we do have the the traffic consultant do the study for us there is a model of the Southdale district and they they incorporate projects that have been approved around the district they also build in a um just a multiplier of just base improvements in the area I believe it's like 10% um added growth over time um so those numbers are plugged in and they come to their conclusions um there may very well be the this AI type model um in the folks I've spoke to to they're not aware of it but it's certainly could be out there um it's possible that a lot of the the inputs that would be put into the ai ai model are similar to what the traffic Consultants rely on so they could may or may not come out with the same results robbert Jackson um yes so I want to um talk about a little bit of policy that people have talked about um in the commissions so our Planning Commission spent two years working on a traffic New a revised traffic ordinance and requirements and that's what is we give to Stant is the policy that we worked on with the Planning Commission um and so the parking is reflected um through that process the required parking um and the one of the questions was you know what how many people this one parking place per apartment that was a policy decision that we um worked on with the Planning Commission and I know that member agnu where she here would tell us that and I'm this I'm quoting from memory from her but that surprisingly uh surprising number of people who live in apartments choose not to have any car at all and that that that actually um the parking that's allowed um is often overp parked for that purpose so I just want to throw that out there but similarly the Transportation Commission spent time looking at EX L the the question that you asked member Pierce and they weren't able to complete that work so it's something we might ask them to do again so what kind of things can we as a city model and do when we're having to make decisions about traffic flow um so that's something that we can um ask for help with um and that like I said that was started and and not completed uh and I would really you know I think it'd be useful as we do this because there these are complex and we are concerned about um cut through traffic um but those are both policy things that that we can turn to our um our resident experts um to look into for us can't doesn't solve anything tonight but but I think those are really good questions and I wanted to make a plug for our commissions um and I do have a question about the traffic flow um one of the things and this might be from Mr tart that the neighbors pointed out last night is that by creating this new interior street that it will actually increase cut through traffic not only from the new buildings but also from The Cedars of Edina who could use that as a way to bypass France cut through on 72nd Street up to 70th um past the school or P another route um and so that actually by creating this new interior Street we would put additional traffic through the cornelian neighborhood there um and I wondered if they looked at that and if so um are there ways that we can encourage uh both the new buildings and also the Cedars of Ed to continue to go out to France rather than cut through uh towards Highway 100 on 70th Street yeah I would ask Mr terhar to address those you know the one way to prevent it is to make make those roadway improvements um when 72nd is improved so so I would I'm sorry I would just say that's the exact same thing I just said and so it it is so frustrating that we take a box and we try to make decisions based on set criteria what I'm suggesting is that we take that as a scenario we run the AI model to give us what are the scenarios what are the traffic flows what are the patterns how do we mitigate those types of of issues and it's we we get up here and we have these conversations and I can promise you we're going to spend the next hour and a half talking about this and if we vote on it we're going to have this much more clarity than we had when we started and I have to ask the question am I okay with that and I'm not and everybody's different um and so I'm happy to have the conversation but there's nothing that you're going to say that's going to convince me that we've run AI models based on the constraints that we want to have in this project for traffic flow and the reason I can say that with specificity is because nobody's asked us nobody has asked us what constraints do we want to see nobody has asked the neighbors what constraints do they want to see they certainly don't feel like they're being heard which is why we got the email so we can we can keep running people up here to do presentations but we aren't going to have answers to these questions and it's it's unfair um to be at this point uh for to have that lack of clarity in in my opinion um and so I let's let's keep going but I just want to be clear what I said that you disagreed with and pushed off on the commissions is exactly what you turned around and asked it's the exact same thing how do you cut how do you reduce cut through traffic let's have the presentation to say here's how we do it and we aren't any more informed in my opinion than we were when we started I actually agree with you very much that we need an AI model and constraints but we don't have that tonight and I'm just saying this is a tool for creating something like that and um I I was given a specific question last night and I want a specific answer to that that doesn't necessarily impact how I'm going to vote tonight but if if there is an answer I'd like to hear it and in the future when we're looking at these these are just this site in particular is breathtaking ly complex and it has been for over 10 years I think um and um so yes I would love to see an AI model where we can run and say what are what's going to happen and how's the traffic going to flow but right now I had a specific question asked and my friend asked me to ask about it and so I'm going to do give him a voice and say uh will this interior Street increase cut through traffic in the neighborhood question yeah introduce yourself please and give us your address we're at one Carlson Parkway Plymouth Minnesota uh it's a very good question it's a very difficult question to answer I don't even know if running an AI model would give us that answer because it has to do with what people perceive as the shortest route now as part of our study we do look at using for example Google Maps picking a point on the map and saying I want to go to the north on Highway 100 what is the quickest way to get there um for for uses on Gallagher to the South to get to the north on Highway 100 it's actually quicker to go south to 77th and get on 100 at that interchange because it's all right turns if you go to 72th and go north you have to make a left turn on the 70th 70th is a 25 mph Street and so with all those factors taken into account as you get farther south on Gallagher including the apartments it actually is physically quicker to go the other way so we do look at that we take that into account um really the the traffic that would be using 72 there would be some from this development um and my best estimate on that is based on the study we did back in 2018 for the original um project we did collect data when the previous uh office building was fully occupied and the medical office building which actually had a connection through the parking ramp if you remember on the bottom was a connection to the parking ramp into that parking you could get to 72 anyways we uh documented there was about 15% of that development traffic us 72nd So based on that information that's my best estimate as to what what would be using 72 from this development I don't see any any other uh large amounts of cut through traffic using that that street okay thank you what we've got you here um this may be helpful too just from a backgrounding standpoint so when you did that study was it 2018 yeah 2018 yeah so what kind of uh volume were being generated in the morning and afternoon out of 7250 in 2018 yeah that was a larger project so the numbers were higher under I don't I mean I mean the buildings that were functioning there I mean the businesses that were functioning what kind of traffic were those existing businesses generating sure um actually Carrie asked me that question and surprising not surprisingly but they were they're actually very similar to what's being proposed today so the the total numbers were actually quite similar so for example um in the previous you know with the previous uses there was a the off building and then the medical office building right um the previous uses in the PM peak hour um generated 298 and the daily was 2773 hold on I want to write these down sure this is for 7250 now this is for both of them combined do you want just 7250 well I have SE I have I have both of them combined 7200 and 7250 the previous uses and that was what so let me just run through the total that am in the previous was 246 the PM previous was 298 and the previous daily was 2773 2773 yeah that was the daily total 2773 what year was that that was 2018 okay and do you want the current numbers for the current proposal the total or think you have that well I can get them to you to verify but then visiting with the neighbors last night and of course this traffic is a is a big issue everybody's thinking about it sure sure uh 300 cars a day 7250 7200 and 200 cars at 7250 is what one of the well what what do your numbers show that's not correct the the current plan that's being proposed y generates according to the study or the most recent memo that we put together and the am generates 349 the PM this is a combined combined 72 72 just like the before com yes yeah they're combined 349 349 in the AM 275 in the PM and 2683 daily so the PM and the daily are actually lower than the previous the is higher primarily because of the coffee use all right and then uh do you have the data from the uh I think it's PUD 16 because this is an amendment a proposed amendment to PUD 16 so when the project was approved that would have put two six-story buildings with 299 units of Housing and 30,000 ft of retail there uh and 10 owner occupied Town Homes do we do you have that traffic data uh I don't believe I do do the study we did in 2022 was not was not those uses and was not those uses no it was in 2022 we had 100 this the one with 150 apartment units and 10,000 square ft in 7200 yeah and then it was the 124 24,62419 no it does not have the retail anymore the retail's okay all right thank you for that and you have 153 Apartments instead of 150 don't we have that data from uh the prior PUD or the existing I can tell you what the 2028 study 2018 study had that we assumed that isn't that the data you just gave us it was but I didn't give you the uses well um that had that had some sit down restaurant that had tow houses had 10 town houses um I had two sit down restaurants had General retail so I don't I'm I don't know if that aligns with the other PUD you're talking about oh so when I when I when I asked you what the numbers were for the ongoing businesses on um 7200 and 7250 uh are you going to give me the same numbers you gave me me you going to give me the same numbers now that you gave me when I asked you that question and all that no it's really what that project was no what I gave you before were the uses that were there that were torn down okay those were that that were that the numbers that I first gave you okay the uses that were torn down the second numbers I gave you were the ones that are currently proposed right current numbers right and 2018 numbers were a different proposal and I don't know where that went but that's what we studied okay that's a lot of numbers I know yeah let's hear that let's hear that now so do you want me to tell you what that's what we're talking about here is the 10 town houses 30,000 ft of retail and uh 299 units of apartment it's very close to that yes yes I do you want me to read what we well it's very close to that but I can tell you what we studied okay so I I'll just read it off by by building 7200 building was 164 Apartments 10 tow houses 4,000 square ft of sitdown restaurant and 9,000 square F feet of General retail and then the 7250 building was 135 Apartments 4,000 ft sit down restaurant and 13,000 ft of General retail so it's it's very close to your numbers that you were citing they it's not exactly the same okay and then as far as the trips go um and I have to read them by building okay the let's see here the 7250 building had 111 a.m. and 150 p.m. and 1,736 daily and then and the 7250 building at 101 a.m. 148 p.m. and 1,674 daily so and I I don't have those those totals for both of them but but those are the individual buildings okay well that was that was just one building or both buildings that was both buildings okay okay all right okay um so I think it's back to uh carry can I just ask a clarifying question so the neighbors and I'm assuming we probably all have talked to the same neighbors but maybe a bigger group uh since we didn't do it together um so if the if one of the concerns is cut through traffic then what we the city what we're saying is that there's minimal cut through traffic there will be minimal cut through traffic through Cornelia based on these numbers well minimal 15% of the traffic so do you consider that minimal acceptable I'm asking you I'm just giving you the numbers it's acceptable is a is a tough question to to answer it it's an opinion okay then who has the then then who based on the data has the opinion so you've given us the data that's great thank thank you so who says whether whether or not that's acceptable no that hasn't been Us in the past that's there had been a a a report that would suggest whether or not there is uh if we need to make changes based on that data and then we make the decision based on that report so I'm just asking for the clarification based on the numbers uh if I may um uh as engineering staff based on the analysis and the traffic study we look at the characteristics of the road itself to determine whether or not it can accommodate that additional traffic whether or not that's acceptable or not again is I guess a matter of perspective does that answer a question you repeat that sorry sure So based on the based on the traffic volumes that are forecasted in the study as engineering staff we look at the characteristics of the roadway to determine whether or not it can accommodate that traffic whether it's acceptable or not I guess as a matter of opinion rer a suggestion that was made um by more than one of the residents who I met with was that it would make sense to not have the road that is added and runs through the property actually um go all the way to 72nd to make it a drive that ends and you can't actually drive all the way through and the point was made that although putting it in is something that will help us if we can get roads through properties to the north those roads don't really exist and the more I think about this idea of not actually having it go all the way to 702nd the more I think maybe that's something the developer might actually like because then they don't have cut through traffic cruising through their property so anyway I just want to put that out there well member rer what you just want to make sure I understand it but you know when I looked at we talked to the neb about this last night and first what or not first but one of the ideas was that uh you just close that road off at both ends but of course the the the building has to have access to the parking ramp on this off 72nd so what you're suggesting is somewhere North or somewhere south of the parking ramp possibly this road ends or it stops there and there's no way to go from from Gallagher all the way through right people using Gallagher have to go to France I I think yes exactly and they would come off of Gallagher because there's a light there okay um okay thanks for that thought and then uh Mr toar where you where you're here what I mean you we don't need a traffic engineer to tell us that's a deterrent to cut through traffic that would be a deterrent to cut through traffic yes uh what do you what do you think then about this issue that came up and and uh I think the developer said at the last meeting uh they were comfortable with the notion that if there was no left turn allowed out of the out of the stub Street if we call it that now uh the internal Street uh left turn on the 72nd uh what kind of deterrent effect do you think that would have with respect to uh so-called cut through traffic going going westbound on 72nd if there was no left turn load sure I it would it would if it was properly designed and you know physically limited people from doing that it it would be effective in my opinion so I but that's that's the question how how you know how to properly design then it would need to be some more discussion and discussion with with uh Chad and you know figure out what what could happen there so you're saying something more than signage so yeah you can put up a sign but that's probably not going to the point director Teague was making if we were going to redo that street sure for for there would be options to look at yes that's the way to do it yep that would be the way to do it I think that's the way that prior pd16 was designed wasn't it that is correct the developer at that time was proposing to um reconstruct all that portion of 72nd um do you want to continue with your presentation I was really just ready to conclude that the staff and the Planning Commission recommendation was a unanimous um for approval of the site plan and the ordinance Amendment and then turn it back to the council for discussion okay you was ready for some more questions I'm sure uh oh I had one for you for parking people were talking about parking so when we met with the neighbors last night they were operating under the assumption that the uh I got find that now the traffic numbers or the parking numbers were higher than what you mentioned and I thought that I recall that right now we over overp parked which you recommend which you set forth that data on the parking right there's 470 structured 460 required um but the neighbors were assuming those numbers were different than that do you know where those numbers came from that they would have had yeah I just had it here and no I don't have it here I couldn't find it the number I have in my notes Mr Mayor is 5883 parking spaces was that with a prior plan with the retail that might have been I don't have that number in front of me okay with the elimination of the 10,000 square fet that that does reduce the amount of parking that's required yeah I know one of the questions they had was how do we get to six stories we talked about about that um talked about that door issue uh we talked about 70 traffic uh issues we talked about the curb cut on France for an auto entrance the County's reticence there um which is interesting because before they said they'd reluctantly do it and then apparently they changed their mind for the next for this this project uh memb Jackson has some other questions she's got written down I think that they had last night that she wants to ask about well I want to go back to the parking I found in the in the extensive memo we got 483 parking spaces do not comply with the ad city code which requires 573 parking stalls is the numbers that that the neighbors provided with us um and so I think that was your question Mr Mayor no um about the numbers but the but you're saying the numbers are 470 structured 460 required 13 surface spots so that's based on the Pud requirement and again that was based on the parking study that was done by stantech and their conclusion was there is adequate parking so it is a variation from city code but the conclusion from the consultant was that it would be uh there would be enough parking so that was what was put into the into the ordinance okay um oh well while you think about that I want to follow up with that question so if this was a zoning by right they would require 573 parking spaces but because of the Pud the number of parking spaces changes based on the traffic study that was done correct okay we had a couple questions last night that I think are more developer appropriate and I'm going to ask Mr Carlson to come up and he may have some other thoughts here as he listens to the conversation and not even yeah I'll go ahead uh good evening uh council members uh thank you for the opportunity to discuss this project you know um my name is Ted Carlson with oai Investments and here with our team is Bob lokin and um hi to my family at home um you know I I think I sense some frustration in the room and I think that is a reflection of what happens when we as a development team are trying to bring an excess of 150 million in developed projects to our town uh of which I live in and I'll say for the eenth time you know we live here our kids are in public school here and we're proud of the projects that we built and owned and developed in our community and we've done what we said we were going to do and I think it's a reminder that a year ago we demolished these buildings because they were blight and they were ugly and uh We've secured the site and tried to keep it as clean and orderly as we can so for me I think it's um you know to hear that maybe we haven't been engaged or that the process and there's questions around that is difficult because we've had two sketch plans multiple public hearings and multiple trips through through and with the Planning Commission we had a 90 unanimous vote in favor of this plan but I'd like to uh just ask a few questions of maybe Mr tihar to see if he can answer these because when we develop projects we do it with the neighborhood mind we do it with the city and mind we do with the engineers in mind we do with the Watershed in mind we do with the county in mind we do it that Equity tenants and sustainability and so aligning all those things is quite challenging especially when we've got a lot of smart and and and present voices throughout our community so when we came through with a sketch plan I received emails from several neighbors very anti-h hotel and furthermore as we thought about the best project for the neighborhood under our approved PUD that included 10,000 ft of retail we elected to pull that retail out and we've got a project here that is fully aligned with what I believe to be the best example of the geg in the Southdale neighborhood where we're building highquality class ablea office that'll bring High pain jobs to our community we're building housing that's in desperate need and is mandated by the metro met Council to bring to our community that will provide affordable units and places for our residents to live we're creating connectivity through the site with a north south connector bike trails pedestrian Trails we spent a lot of time hours and hundreds of thousands of dollars designed in this project to fit those guidelines all of the parking in this project on 7200 is enclosed within the building zero surface stalls we're in Alli in Alliance with the affordable policy we're in Alliance plus with the sustainable policy we've got a way to accommodate a future connection whether that's a bridge or an underpass I believe and I would defer to the City attorney if we would to get her opinion on our alignment with the Pud we we're trying to activate the site and specifically I would like to ask Mr terhar if he could between what our PUD was approved by pulling out the retail component 10,000 square ft my public school math is that that takes traffic down by 44% so I think you know it's a difficult process and spending again close to 150 million to build these projects of which by the way I'll sign personal guarantees on is pretty impressive for our community so if we don't have the support here tonight um I'd like to hear exactly why and how we can provide maybe a better project um lastly as we listen to the park presentation before us we are dedicating almost an acre or quarter of land to a storm water treatment facility that's a buffer and from sight line from western boundary to our building is 221 ft in excess of 70 yard when you go from the back in the nearest home to our building it's 290 yards the Panhandle on the park I just measured is approximately 270 ft of city-owned property so I want to provide some perspective that as we get you know all what are we going to do with this project that we're trying to really thread the needle and build something great for our community and take a site that look like crap for 10 years and make it really really something nice that we can all be proud of and we've done that with other sites in our community so with that I would just ask Mr terhart if you can verify my public school math thank you so with that I'd like to just understand if you have any further questions or concerns on this project so what about the questions for Mr terar it was if by pulling from our approved PUD in 2023 we removed 10,000 square ft of retail specifically within 7200 and the removal of that retail traffic reduced was a 44 prod 44% reduction in traffic is that fair yeah it actually ends up being 43.3% if you want to get if you want to get a technical but yeah you're very close well uh the joy of Engineers thank you um lastly I I wanted to just summarize what I believe you presented to mayor huband is it related to Traffic is our traffic as proposed less than what we came through with in 20123 yes it's less traffic as as proposed less than the previous PUD that was approved I I'd have to add those up but I think it was I believe it was lower thank you yeah that was my deduction from the data that he gave us was that it was lower um so we had a I had a couple of questions from last night that I think they kind of came up as the conversation went along and people have ideas uh one was um what the general sort of observation from the neighbors we met with that GE we could get comfortable with a four-story building on France uh on the project so the question was that I wrote down was what what would it what would be the cost of going to the four stories on France or is that even feasible I guess is a better way to put it to go to a four-story project on France Avenue that would be lower in height than what's proposed I think then we get much closer to the neighborhood to the west and we'd probably look to push to do more units let me turn to a director Teague so if if we we've got a six-story building that we kind of Stack towards France Avenue then we've got the call it the W for the walkway and the sidewalk and the storm water management Pond um what are what is the the flexibility in terms of setback if they went to the West with a lower building you know maybe think about that or look it up while you're and I'll go back and ask another question another question that came up was uh could the Tiff from 7250 be used to fund a park at 7200 so the the underlying question there of course is if that were even possible uh theoretically what what would it cost you know I mean what you you've got fixed costs in there and you've got cost of development and um it strikes me that it would be a pretty significant number to be thinking about for a neighborhood park yeah I think that um you know we would based upon our site costs Pursuit cost holding costs and a reasonable um value of the land that would be north of $12 million okay thanks for that 90 ft is the setback on the West Side the required setback required setback so where how how much additional how for how much further west could they me move if there was yeah little over 100 feet closer that would be if we modified the requirements that we put on the project because it's a PUD right now that would impact the north south road so it's really an amendment to the entire overall development plan kind of moves the whole project right up by the to the pond essentially does you get uh instead of narrower or thinner you get wider lower wider it it's also step back on the west side where it's five stories with a step back in the patio where the six stor is it is stepped on the West Side jaon um one of the other questions that we got was the idea talk us through once again how the different parking um structures would interact so is it flow over from the commercial building into the residential or vice versa or talk to me a little bit about how the cars would be parked because they're not don't match exactly um building to building yeah great question I think it's in full alignment with the uh design experience guidelines and sustainability and thoughtful futuristic development frankly um that's one one of the great things that mix you Springs is that apartments are busy when the office is not usually in vice versa and for example offices are not busy on weekends so what we've got is control of both properties we have to structure easements with the city before we can pull a permit that's required as part of our resolution that allows to make sure that we have plenty of parking between the two sites for each use so there's two ways to get to and from the parking one is at grade on the street um both uh on the West Side what we're calling the cut through Street what we used to call a modern W ORF um two is at grade either uh with the connection between the public Plaza the amenities on the office building building and the amenities in the apartment building so there's two different ways to easily connect uh for Parkers between either project and the if an Uber is coming to drop off or a door Dash that's easily accessible or visible to the public so if a door Dash comes to deliver dinner they'll be able to find the building yeah yes I I you know we own and operate the laurant at Sunny Side Francis is very similar parking situation okay that's very helpful thank you any other questions that you you thought of from that meeting last night I'm trying to look think of through my notes too me one of the issues involved that potential underpass but member rer go ahead oh I had it went go ahead okay I I do want to clarify my frustration is by process and how that has gone and I'm not putting that on you thank you um I also want to ask another part of the frustration that I hear from the neighbors is they've seen projects nearby that you look at the picture how they're supposed to appear and then what actually gets built is very different than what people imagine MH and that happened with the 4040 building it was supposed to sit on the ground and it doesn't it was elevated up it was supposed to have a setback on the highest floor all the way back and then it kind of came forward and so it wasn't done the way people thought it was going to be done in the picture and we learned that the changes were approved and that they they didn't come before Council because they were considered minor and so one person's idea of a minor change is another person person's idea of a major change and I want to know that what you know your vision that's going to sit on the ground the way you show it it's going to be scaled back on the upper level the way you show it uh and I'm sorry I have to ask that question no that's that's okay that's our full intent yes and I think if you look at the projects that we own operate and have developed within the city I think that um that's a good representation of how we choose to do business um I had some supplemental questions here one for you was how many meetings did you did you have with the neighbors that didn't get covered I didn't think very thoroughly four okay and and with respect to the county uh did you ever talk to them about a potential curb cut on France um I did not directly work with the county we rely on engineering and staff to do that but PRI compared to the pre previous P we have removed any cut uh any access uh on France including the current cutout on France okay which I believe is aligned with the county wishes is that fair director te that's right and then uh one of the questions that um uh the neighbors had last night was uh employee parking how how does does the amount of parking that you have accommodate the employees as well yes and then another question about the parking uh we talked about uh the fact that it's it's all enclosed I think um so part of the parking is similar to what you have over at the laurant if I remember you go in at grade or street level and there's parking in there that's concealed from the street that's built into the building so it doesn't look like a one-story parking there for a grade level parking ramp is that correct yes you're correct and I think to council member rer question it provides a very nice um look it's very clean it's not cluttered and our resident and uh and office access points are controlled safe and secure and how many spots do you have at that at grade ins inside uh inside the building at grade is plus or minus 65 yeah okay and then uh in the in the two buildings underground you've got remember those numbers we've got um over 400 just going to go through my notes one more time from last night um oh this is a question that came up too when member Jackson I were meeting with because of the traffic being a concern in that whole broad neighborhood what remind me of the status of the traffic study maybe this is a question for Mr cipion what's the status of the traffic study in the entire Cornelia neighborhood and in the scope of that study uh Mr Mayor I believe we reported back on uh that study a couple meetings ago I don't have my notes here but um uh director Milner I be believe previously mentioned that uh that's the a study from a number of years ago recommended 13 or 14 different actions uh to take place in the neighborhood and the majority of those have been implemented um the only one that has not been implemented is to increase capacity of Highway 62 which we don't have the ability to do yeah I remember all all that report from director Milner and the only one he didn't have the ability to do is one you just mentioned is increase Lane capacity on cross town so uh but I think we I wanted to ask you more about you know signage or calming things that we could do in the in the broader neighborhood that would be an addition to the things that we already done yeah but I'm going to turn to member Jackson for right so but I was under the impression that we had a new study that was sort of What Not a watershed study but a traffic shed study for the entire 62 to 694 am I incorrect that we were looking at that that that's my recollection that there was the study that was done previously and we got that report but I was under the impression that we were doing a much larger one um sort of gathering all the Daya that we've G gathered am I wrong in that I don't recall that you mean from 62 to 494 yeah in the in the so in the Southdale District itself that was my understanding my recollection is that uh I don't remember if it was last year or two years ago but we received a ition from residents in the cornelian neighborhood um asking for a number of traffic improvements we looked into that and we reported back to Council on what improvements we had made what we're uh in the process of looking into um but I don't recall a further study that we're working on beyond that that's a Chad Milner question because it was a comment that he made that prompts the memory but you know it was it was not a we have not seen a presentation on that um I just don't know if that so I think what the mayor was going to ask and I'll go ahead and ask is what can we do right now um as a city with this development can we prevent the left turn at this point without completely reconstructing the street um is that is that feasible on a temporary basis and if not when is the street reconstruction scheduled so you could at that uh if you keep this internal Street connecting to 70 seconds Street you could install a median or a pork chop in such a way to only permit vehicles to turn right into exit off France it's not to say that some Vehicles may not circumvent that and kind of do a u-t turnaround uh another thing kind of a more extreme measure you could consider would be putting in a a center Median on 72nd Street which would completely prevent all vehicles um from exiting left um we'd have to consider the impact to emergency vehicles and large vehicles um but um as far as the street reconstruction I believe as as uh krie Teague mentioned um we are scoping out a sanitary sewer Improvement project within the broader neighborhood that will involve that will necessitate reconstructing 72nd Street uh that project is tentatively slated for 2025 or 2026 so as part of that project again we're going to be it's going to necessitate rebuilding 72nd Street so we could look at narrowing the street Street we could look at uh medians pork chops things like that at that time to uh help calm traffic so it's possible to do something immediately and possible to do something grander in the next two years correct okay thank you yeah yeah thank you for that uh member Pierce yeah uh thanks Mr Mayor so I I I wanted to Circle back um Mr Carlson you asked the question um when you gave your comments um I just want to clarify that the comments that I am sharing is really based on process and so I I think it it is good for us to make a decision to just make sure we're making that decision from the same data set maybe I'd say it that way and so we probably had five or six different perspectives on traffic tonight right and we had some great suggestions on how we might um eliminate and and calm some of the traffic um but I think it's difficult from my perspective to be making a decision like this uh with not as much clarity as I'd like to have I put it that way with some of the data sets um and then I think we had we all had questions from the neighbors um and so being able to dive into that and figure out all right well what can we what can we do what should we do to be able to address some of those issues um and so that's where my uh perspective is coming from um and I I've said it it is not when we have challenges like that that we need to go through um you kind of are looking behind the curtain on some of this um and so I think we do need to take that time to go through and just clarify um this is the data that we're utilizing this is what happened in 2018 or 2019 or what have you right but this is the data set that we're going to use and um uh be able to bring that uh back um so that we have really crisp Clarity around how we we're um what data we're using to make the decision and so I would would would offer a motion to table this and then allow time for staff to be able to go through that process to just clarify uh what data set that we're using as well as um we have a couple of emails that we can also uh most of those are geared uh towards some of the traffic um concerns um we can do an analysis on those and then be able to bring back um recommendations on what we may do there and if I understand um in that motion uh we would be looking at um having that back the first meeting in October uh to council this kind of begs a question this you get a motion or a second on the motion um are we okay on the 60-day rule we are the 60-day rule expires October 15th okay so your motion would be to table this matter until the me first meeting on October October 1 is that it yes W with the with the I'm sorry yeah with the directive to staff yes yes to do the things that you just Des getting the data tightened up y with respect to traffic with respect to the Pud PUD y um pass resolutions y p ordinances pass all those things Y is there a second to that motion second further discussion um all those in favor of adoption of the motion stated say I I I opposed carried uh matters continued to the first meeting in October October 1st I believe with the um expectation that um all this data that member Pierce has talked about would be gathered we'd have available to us great thank you then we'll have a full Council too that's good to had another one more perspective okay all right thank you everybody all right um M and then uh we had um this was a carryover from I think uh member rer uh it's a minutes of the regular city council meeting on July 16th 2024 are those in our packet or where they're online or yeah they're in this pack um okay fighting are they red lined here I'm pulling them up I didn't see them yeah it was see I don't see it I don't see the red lining oh here it's not readed it's just underlined okay so uh manager Neil I'm going to let you uh comment on this I know I think member rer you supplied this information to manager Neil or to staff correct requested that the meeting minutes of July 16th 2024 be modified to include the uh underscored language in the proposed set of minutes is that is that a thir statement or is that is yes that is correct and then manager Neil your comments my my only comments are that that we've had a previous conversation about uh about this and our meeting a minute standards uh the council did not change our standards we've prepared the the proposed meeting minutes uh using those standards um council member Risser has prepared the amendment to them um these are your meeting minutes of course to decide how how you're going to record the minutes um we haven't changed our standards and uh don't uh don't advocate for this change but they are your they are your meeting minutes and is your discretion to determine what standards are being used member rer I'll let you comment please the minutes as written I think should reflect the really key things that happen in a meeting and the discussion and I think it's important that code be part of the dialogue um particularly in this case and I understand that references to code aren't required by staff that that's not what they're looking for I understand it's a very minimal kind of way of recording what happened but I think for the record it is really important to have that detail so I would you know this is why I took the time to do it and I think it is important to add thoughts of I guess member council member Jackson yes thank you Mr Mayor so I I respect your point about wanting to get things on record member Risser um but I want to take a bigger step pack this is a sketch plan a sketch plan is not designed to um create new ordinance to create new authority of any kind it's actually feedback for the developer so that they don't get too far down their development plans spending a lot of money on something that then is not going to work so the audience for for a sketch plan is actually the developer it's not the general public setting rules and um terms this is a a point that I think it' be really good to raise if they come back to us with an actual development idea and um you know I would advise you to you know advise staff to put that address this issue in their um staff memo when they come back um but the purpose of a sketch plan and I you know I know you'll disagree with me on this but um the purpose of a sketch plan isn't to create new law or new Authority but to just give um give the temperature of the council to a potential development good point I understand that um we have had multiple sketch plans for this site they have all had entrances and exits off of Vernon which is an arterial Road and I think it's important to note that according to our code that really does not appear to be allowed and so I think that is a valid point to make in this in this context because we keep getting plans that have that but you know um I hear what you're saying I also understand that even in resolutions um we can put content in resolutions not just in minutes but if you look at resolution 2017-13 in our resolution we state that we're going to turn all these Parcels into pcd1 for purely residential housing which also goes against code so I guess maybe this is the night where we just really recognize that code is not really followed but or or at least in resolutions it doesn't really matter or minutes so on that note thank you um other thoughts I I'm not I wasn't quite following the last conversation I wasn't sure what we were trying to what we're being asked here at first I thought it was we just I'm taking a motion to approve the minutes with the edits that's it yeah yeah okay so then the but we're not suggesting that we change the way we do minutes just are we well I think the comment from at least my understanding was that manager Neil was saying the level of detail that's provided here with this proposed amendment to the minutes MH is outside the scope of our policy got it because we're in in a more um okay and I'm thank you and I'm saying it's your discretion to do that if you wish they are your meeting minutes yeah and then M Jackson raised the point about this was sketch plan review and uh I would add that I think we should stick with our policy yeah uh and um I further think that I agree with that the proposed amendment alludes to the fact that the council said this and the council said that well the entire Council didn't say that it's an inaccuracy on top of it plus outside the scope of at least in my opinion outside the scope of the of our policy so that yeah sorry I agree with you Mr Mayor I think if if our policy if we're following policy I think we should continue to follow policy um we should be process honoring from that perspective if there's a concern still that our minutes are not covering data or information member rer that you think it should then I think that's probably the route to go through is to say well making a recommendation of how our policy should change and why but this is just saying I think so that I think for me that means for this we should um take the vote as to whether or not we leave the amendment in there or not yeah so I think you know if if if we want a higher level of detail that is different from the scope of our existing policy we ought to have collectively that discussion that's what you're saying I think that's a great Point uh so I think so our clerk has two sets of minutes in here one original and and one with the Amendments proposed by member rer so the first set of minutes in their for July 16 2024 reflect the work of the clerk and those would be the the I would first entertain a motion do we want to adopt the minutes of the regular meeting of the D city council for July 16 2024 as produced by our clerk so moved second got a motion second to adopt the minutes of the regular meeting of the city council for July 16 2024 as those minutes were produced by our clerk any for discussion all in favor of adoption of the motion say I I I opposed carried minutes of the regular meeting of the city council was prepared by our clerk sh sh Sharon Allison are adopted thank you um now um we're on to city manager comments and we've got this performance review situation and um we talked about appointing a subcommittee of two council members to review the proposals and make a selection uh recommendation of the full councel I don't know if manager you want to say anything as a predicate and I'm going to You' got you've gotten a couple of volunteers which I think is great and I'm going to ask them to affirm their willingness to serve in this capacity thank you your honor uh yes we uh uh the assistant city manager lens has uh facilitated a an RFP process that resulted in seven different uh applicants or or proposals um I'm looking for a subcommittee of council members uh to review those proposals and to make a recommendation back to the full city council for approval um we would provide uh Miss lens and I would provide logistical support uh to the group uh but of course that decision about recommendation comes directly from your colleagues let me ask member rer member Pierce if they be willing to serve in that capacity yep yes uh do you want some formal motion of appointment or is that I think yeah yes please okay uh is there a motion to appoint uh a subcommittee of member Pierce and member Risser to review the proposals and make a selection recommendation to the full city council for the city manager's annual performance review so moved second there a second member Jackson moves member Pier seconds the adoption of the motion is stated involving the appointment of a sub subcommittee of our two council members James Pierce and Julie Brer to review the proposals for a facilitator to make it a selection recommendation of the full City Council on this relative to the city manager's performance review any further discussion all those in favor of adoption of the motion stated say I I I opposed carried motion's adopted um and then uh city manager or any other comments uh no no other comments tonight thank you um and let's go to member Pierce any comments of council members uh thank you Mr Mayor I just had um just an update and I thought this was was kind of cool so the I'm the council member representative on the I 494 Corridor commission and so um Southwest Transit has signed a three-year contract with May Mobility um to provide um to integrate autonomous vehicles um in um for microtransit services in Eden Prairie um and so I I I thought this was kind of a neat deal um and so I was asking questions about well how does how can you expand the service um the intent behind the service is that it's kind of a last mile type of of a deal um they're going to operate from Monday to Saturday initially um 5: to 7: they're estimating that it's saving they they'll save around um half a million dollars with this um should be available around this fall but then this was a criteria um you can't have roads that um the speed limit is higher than 35 um doesn't go over any railroads um there are some inclement weather type challenges um but they think they've addressed all of those issues for um our climate and then the other one I thought was interesting um for Ada assistance U and so these are I think these are like minivans but the newer kinds of minivans are a lot smaller than the the the old style and so initially they will have a an attendant will be behind the wheel um in case someone who's in a wheelchair um needs to get on and then the wheelchair needs to be locked um and so if you're in Eden Prairie you might see uh Mobility out with their if you remember uh when Google did their mapping you'd see the Google the van out with the camera so they're doing um that's what they're doing now they're kind of um optimizing their routes um looking for things now that are um um things you can't plan for and so in the meeting they gave the example of um on one of the routs there was a a bunch of turkeys I don't know is it a it's not a school of turkeys I don't know what it is what is it called a ra A rafter of turkeys and so the vehicle when it gets to something it doesn't know it stops and then there's a control center that has cameras and everything and the control center can say oh those are turkeys it gets programmed into the AI model and so next time it sees turkeys it'll stop wait for the turkeys to cross and then it'll keep going uh their price point to start this I think it's um it's five bucks which I think is what their current um price is for typical um Transit but I thought that was neat I think they're starting with five or six somewhere in that neighborhood of vehicles um and it's in the Golden Triangle I never had heard that term but I know what that is now um so I thought that was pretty neat yeah it's just going to operate in the Golden Triangle yeah just in the Golden Triangle primarily is just that little so I thought it was pretty neat um to see um yeah wh where where is wh base is that a California based company may may Mobility or oh it's not weo it was May Mobility May Mobility yeah and they do um Grand is it Grand Rapids they have this full almost fully autonomous I think it's in an area in Grand Rapids um to start out they felt like they'd be probably you know it'll be less than 90% uh fully autonomous uh but they think they could get to a point where they're 95 I think the one in Grand Rapids might be 100% but solving the challenge of ADA they still have to kind of figure out how they're going to to do that but I thought it was oh and then the other thing that I thought was neat um it's a point too type of a deal so they'll have they have their own app and so you go on the app and you ask for this this type of mobility and it would be similar to Uber where if you're in a downtown area where you your Uber might say well I'll pick you up you know on this corner and the model is built so that the furthest you may have to do is like maybe a 5 minute walk to the pickup location but that's where the vehicle will will meet you um and then you get in and then it it goes yeah so that's it thank you good for Eden C uh member Jackson thank you Mr Mayor so August 22nd this Thursday is get connected day at the high school and it's also banned Together by The Ed fund so I'm looking forward to it get some live music lots of different kinds of things are going to be there all day and should be all night and all night like 10:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. or something yeah it's a long event um and uh it should be pretty fun so they've got some high school players some professional players all all different levels of of Music presented so should be awesome rer I actually don't have anything tonight thank you uh one thing for me um you know we talked a little bit about it was maybe a couple months ago now that we'd had that I call it AI 101 presentation out of Microsoft for the Regional Council of Mayors well we've got them all lined up now for September 9th and do you remember the time Scott was it 5 o' and we're going to meet over so it's going to be us and the school district and any staff from the school or the city that wants to get this AI 101 presentation from Microsoft and five I was thinking it was 5:00 in room 3:45 and uh we'll let Jennifer garsky or somebody let everybody know yeah uh and Stacy's got everything lined up over on her and all the you be a chance for us to meet with our colleagues over at the city over at the school board as well yeah yeah we're all we're all expected to attend so that's the only thing I had um we got pretty close to the clerk's estimate of meeting time uh is there anything else for the good of the order tonight all right is there a motion to adjourn so moved there second we get a motion second to adjourn motion by member Jackson second by member pece to adjourn the city council meeting for the city of viina this Tuesday August 20th 2024 any further discussion all in favor of adjournment of adjournment of the city council meeting say I I I opposed We Stand adjourn e e for