##VIDEO ID:kA7W3V4xBGs## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e meeting of December 18th 2024 pardon me December 17th 2004 is now in session adequate notice to this meeting as required by the open public meetings Act of 1975 has been provided by the annual notice published in the home news and Tribune on December 18th 2023 and has been posted in the main lobby of mpal complex on December 18th 2023 please join me the pledge allegiance to the flag flag of the United States of America the na indivisible Justice Madam Secretary roll call please Mr bno here Miss Shaw here Mr aot here Mr chabra here Mr D here Mr sadaha here Vice chair o Gorman here and chairman Kumba here thank you mam secretary minutes for consideration November 26 2024 minutes for approval what's the board's pleasure second motion made by Mr sadada second by Mr chabra roll call please Mr D yes my name okay yes and the motion thank you Mr chabra yes the motion Vice chair Gorman yes and chairman Kumba yes on the motion Madam Secretary uh resolutions to be adopted we have one resolution z45 2023 hanana Lopez this was granted what's the board's pleasure motion to approve second motion made by Mr chabra second by Mr sedada roll call please Mr chabra yes to the motion Mr sadha yes to the motion and chairman kba yes to the motion thank you thank you thank you uh we have a few announcements case z22 2024 congregation ahavath Israel at 1587 Lincoln Highway uh it will not be heard this evening it was uh improper notice uh Reen notice is required K z34 2023 Muhammad zubar 106 James Street is withdrawing and transferring to the planning board uh the date will be determined and notice is required case Z2 2020 Lamar Advertising a pen llc at 81 and 101 US Highway 1 it'll be carried to February 25th 2025 with no Reen notice required uh if you're here for this case Z2 2020 more advertising a pen LC it will not be heard this evening it will be heard on February 25th 2025 meeting will begin at 7 pm here in council chambers kz2 24 2022 Old Post realy llc at 604 and 610 Old Post Road uh it will not be heard this evening it will be carried to April 29th 2025 with no Ren notice required if you're here for this case Z24 2022 old poost realy it will be heard on April 29th 2025 beginning at 7 pm here in council chambers good evening ladies and gentlemen there's a regular meeting of the Edison Township Zoning Board of adjustment the board is composed of Edison Township residents appointed by the municipal Council who volunteer their time and Serv service to the board the municipal land use Law requires members successfully complete a land use training course administered by the New Jersey Department of Community Affairs the board also holds in-house training conducted by our board professionals the board abides by the provisions of M land use law in addition to our board's bylaws the zoning board is a quasi judicial land use board which differs from the township planning board under the mpal land use law board members are required to be impartial and are not allowed to discuss any case prior to its hearing cons prior to its consideration before the board all applicants will have the opportunity to present their case before the board with the opportunity for board members and board professionals to question the applicant and their Witnesses at the conclusion of the applicant's presentation of their case the case will open to up to the public residents within 200 feet of subject property will be heard followed by residents from outside of 200 feet all residents will be sworn in they'll provide their name and address and then will be given six minutes to comment on the application being considered without the opportunity for rebuttal residents may ask questions of the applicant the applicant's professionals and board professionals the board requests that these questions are asked prior to any commentary being made on the application once commentary Begins the resident's timer will begin the applicant will be allowed the opportunity for cross-examination of their Witnesses under the law the chair is allowed to stop any commentary which is repetitive or is an attempt to filibuster the board further the chair is allowed to stop any commentary that is irrelevant to the case or prohibited from the board's consideration once the public portion is closed all public comments are ended unless new testimony is presented by the applicant following the closure of the public portion the applicant will have the right of summation on their application following summation the case will go to the board for a decision this procedure has been followed by the board and similar to procedures followed by Boards of adjustment Statewide the municipal land use Law requires the board to engage in a balancing act is not required to strictly apply Township ordinances zoning plan or master plan as a board of adjustment variances are granted when appropriately necessary following all legal considerations as has been the case with prior boards this board will see where we are we are if we still in session around 10:30 p.m. I ask that all applicants professionals and residents show respect to each other and be civil throughout all proceedings I ask that you withhold Applause booing or interrupting of anyone while they are speaking the chair will not tolerate Outburst by applicants professionals or the public further since most cases are being recorded by a court reporter I ask that speakers do not speak over one another Madam Secretary first case on the agenda please case number z21 2024 datab ban vignan Institute Inc at 52 and 54 Vineyard Road applicant is seeking preliminary and final site plan approval and seeking bulk and use variances to convert the existing one-story restaurant bar to a two-story place of worships Standards have not been met in accordance with the master plan Max lot area required is 3 acres proposed is 69 Acres existing Max lot width required is 200 ft proposed 100 ft is existing Maxum perious coverage required is 40% proposed is 98.2% affected property is located in the RB Zone designated as block number 1,111 Lot Number 54 on the Edison Township tax map all noticing paperwork is in order good evening Mr Arch uh thank you uh members of the board board professionals uh my name is Tim Arch I'm an attorney licensed in the state of New Jersey I'm here representing daada Bagan vignan Institute uh for the property located at 5254 Vineyard Road um as a preliminary matter I would just ask for confirmation of how many voting members we do have present tonight I believe it's five we only have five tonight five tonight um seeing as how this does uh involve a d variant what I would like to propose is that um we put our testimony on the record we put our our case on the record and then I would like to have an opportunity to just confer with my client um as to whether or not we would go to a vote tonight uh or not at the close of uh testimony would just be a minute that I could confirm with him as long as my legal council agrees with that I'm fine with that okay thank you no issue with that uh thank you so uh as was uh mentioned this is a property that is currently the site of uh Richie's bar and Pizzeria um here in Edison uh the condition of the site is in um relatively poor shape uh there's little or no raiseed curb along the roadway no sidewalks along uh johnon Street uh the condition of the parking lot is currently in uh in poor shape uh cracked and deteriorating pavement little or no traffic control measures on site for Ingress and egress and there's a temporary tent structure that might be gone at this point but at one point there was a temporary tent structure uh and wooden fencing in the middle of the lot so what the proposal is is to take that existing um one story structure and to convert this into a um uh spiritual Institute uh it's essentially a place of worship when you hear place of worship most people likely think Temple Synagogue Church mosque or something along those lines um this is is a little bit different um and so as you'll hear from our testimony uh we don't there aren't set Mass uh schedules so for example this isn't the type of place where on Sunday morning there's going to be a dedicated Mass where every all the congregants come uh this is a a place that is open to all people uh during the hours of operation and there aren't specific meeting times which actually has an added benefit of not consolidating or or um uh condensing all of the participants on the site at any given time um what's nice about this site is that there's a pretty good analog that's right next door to it which is the uh Dharma drum uh Buddhist center uh which is a very very similar model to what we are proposing um it's a spiritual center uh and again I only mentioned this uh because everybody's view that they have in their mind is a is a temple is a synagogue is a mosque and you'll hear that that that is not actually what uh what this proposal is um we do have uh several different reports uh we have Mr Bell's report Mr Carly's report as well as a police and fire memo um we believe that we'll be able to answer all questions in those reports through our Witnesses um just to give you a little bit of an overview uh uh the existing building will be expanded slightly to accommodate the proposed use but the footprint is going to remain essentially the same uh there will be on the first floor a general congregation space Refreshments area bathroom and reception area uh the applicant is also asking to keep the existing Kitchen on site the second floor is going to contain a meeting room classroom and kids area uh and there will be a small apartment on the second floor for uh if we have visiting uh priests or gurus that come in um they will be uh able to be temporarily housed there it's not a permanent thing but just when they come in and visit um applicant and architect is going to dive more into those in details um there's going to be significant overall site Improvement um to bring this site which quite frankly I don't think has been in front of a board or has actually gone through any sort of review in probably quite a long time because a lot of the standards for what's on site right now uh do not meet the the town standards for parking and circulation and the like on that lot uh so we think that what we're proposing is going to be a significant Improvement to what's there uh currently um unless there's any other uh preliminary matter matters I do have uh five witnesses uh tonight but we'll go through them efficiently and quickly hopefully um and unless there's other questions of me I'm I'm ready to call my first witness Board of any questions from Mr Archer you may proceed uh my first witness is Mr bendra Patel Mr Patel would you raise your right hand do you solemnly swear or affirm to tell the whole truth nothing but the truth to help you God yes I do and if you could just sit down and pull the microphone close to you so we could hear you and stay your full name for the record bendra Patel uh Mr Patel uh what is your title with daada Bagan V I'm um a member of the dbvi D bhagwan vigan Institute can you say it again d bhagwan w Institute um and briefly can you explain what is the what is the purpose or what is the overall operation of D bhagan see D bhagan is a nonprofit organizations rooted in Hinduism with with a goal to spread Harmony and peace in the world the organizations is non sectarian and is open to all people to come and and learn about self-realization okay so it's a spiritual institution it's rooted in Hinduism but it isn't strictly a uh it isn't a strictly a practice for Hindus correct that's right that's right okay um take us through sort of the operations uh that you plan on having on the site um what are the basic operations there see we we propose to use this site as a spiritual center and meeting where people can attend and learn about the spiritual science we do not have set time for prayer or studies congregates will attend throughout the day as their their schedule allow typically weekday will have will be less busy and weekends are is expected to be few more attendees okay and what are the hours of operation that you plan to be open to the public from Monday to Thursday is okay Monday to Thursday 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. Friday and to Sunday 9:00 a.m. to 10 p.m. okay and again when you say these are the operating hours that they're open it's not uh these are the hours that people are uh available to come in and to potentially pray or meditate or uh engage in a conversation with the practitioners there correct right right okay these aren't times of specific masses or um events where you would be calling in all of the congre congregation for those individuals no no they they can come at any time they want it and they we have videos they can watch for 10 15 20 minutes whatever they want they have time and and they can uh pray and meditate for for a little while and then they leave so would you estimate that that most practitioners or congregants will come in and maybe spend about an hour or two hours there or maybe even less yes maybe less okay um will there be any sort of high holiday events or anything that corresponds throughout the year where you anticipate that there will be um planned events yes there are five five holidays High holidays that we we are expecting that uh in April according to the Hindu calendar uh April June July October or November and December now oh sorry was that there for you know duration is from 1 to to three days not and during those times you expect that you may have planned events where you would anticipate that more people would come at one time is that correct um they know that that day also uh people people more people will come and and they also throughout the day because it is not a set time also during that that time also so they can come at any time also okay you just anticipate there might be some more people coming but still spread out over the full time that you're open during yes yes yes now we're not asking for a parking variants because we we have the the proper number of parking for the um amount of occupancy that we have in the building but one of the concerns that was raised um when we were in a um the trc's or the meetings with the staff professionals were what if there is an influx uh of people coming in at those times um what is it that you've done to ensure that we're not going to be having a situation where there's parking overflow parking into the streets around that area yeah we we approach with uh uh uh education Board of Education and and the nearby the school they are ready to rent for that day and we will put an applications few days ahead of that that day and and we will get the uh that parking spot and we will uh bring the people from the way and shutle them as as as the species available that's all so during these These Times where you're going to be able to anticipate that there might be a greater influx um you're able to lease parking space from the Board of Education and you've already discussed with them about this yes and be able to shuttle uh any congregants or members back and forth so that no parking on site would be needed that's that's right okay and again this is only a couple times during the year and you have and you'll have lots of notice beforehand to be able to arrange this right right right um so I did mention briefly there was an apartment on the second floor can you just tell us um what that's for what the purpose of that is um when when the uh the guru came from India and at that time he if you know he's traveling a lot well while he's visiting in in us so when he's here you know one of the he doesn't come all all these five days he comes maybe in June or July for for for for two three days when he comes here that time he will will stay there you know okay so it's just temporarily to to accommodate the uh uh the guru or any sort of priest that would come yes okay okay um I don't believe I have any other further direct questions of Mr Patel at this time does the board have any questions Mr Patel Mr chairman Mr DAV So currently um congregation where do you guys meet what facility you are using now we right now we are renting one place on eel Road in Addison what was the eel one eth e t h e l eth e it's regular basis you are using that no only weekend only only Saturday we are we are we are get together there how how big is that facility facility see that also we we we get together about you know for right uh with 2500 square F feet is that approximately yeah yeah 2 2500 square foot and weekend Saturday Sunday full day it's open no no no no only we we meet only once once a week that's all okay and what are the hours there oh from 1 to 4: 1 to 4 and how many congregants how many devotees come maybe 30 40 50 50 people maximum and then those are and that facility can acco 30 to 40 people if they commute with the car oh yeah they they they Comm and and this facility that you are proposing you are trying to keep it open 7 days a week what are the activities going to happen see that that we are see see this is small group and and uh we we are you know the Suppose there is more senior citizens there so if they want to the the the ask for the Shi in front of the god and they will stay for for few hours and some sometime kids are there so some during days kids are at the school in the evening if they want to stop by and and so week days we are not expecting that much activities there who would be managing the facility there when people come and go somebody would be there permanently there not permanently our our our one of the member just like me these all volunteers are there and they will if if somebody's want to come there we will open for them if they leave we will close so it is it is not um that uh that set time for for for anybody to come you know and then you still will have still the Friday or Saturday or Sunday get together still will happen at this new Prem yes yes Saturday Sunday me you expecting no more than 30 40 people or you expecting bigger crowd no no not bigger weekend see thought whatever we have right now 40 50 people there so so those people are constantly coming there and they as as you know it is better for them their own place so they will like to write in front of r in now their own place so right now they are asking for one to four now uh since our facili is there somebody say I want to go 9:00 they can go go 9:00 for half an hour 1 hour whatever and and somebody wants to go so we have more flexibility now within those people that come that any time there so I'm little bit familiar with d bhagan activities and de B comes here I don't how often he comes but I know that whenever you he comes you have big groups get together and you have the U the what is that hotel in so you're still going to maintain a bigger crowd not using this facil somewhere else no no no no we are see when de bik comes thank God that that you know the I've been there a few places I've been there a few times I said thank thank you for for knowing deep B Deepak b d p a k d i p a k b ha AI see what do that mean no he's a guru he's a gur spiritual Guru so so when whenever he comes we always prent the bigger bigger Hotel because we know that that we this facility is not meant for that yeah so I just want to make sure the bigger events are not taking place here that's good that's right that's right we always see last last year we had uh Double Tree in piscar this year when he comes we have Delta hotel in in Allentown Pennsylvania so you're still going to continue using those facilities for big events big events are not going to be here 100% okay we cannot we cannot accom that and what about the Mr P you do me a favor you're going to tire out the court reporter so when Mr dve is finished with his question then you could respond sure sure um just because the the back and forth and talking over each other and I know it's not intended but it's just making her job a lot harder sure sure thank you so much so currently the two tenant in the existing building you're taking over the whole premise correct yes okay and the current existing kitchen you're getting rid of the kitchen no kitchen we will'll keep it because we have to serve the food for for Prasad okay any this a full-fledged kitchen or it just only for the Prasad you're cooking there or you're not cooking there no no the kitchen is there so we have to cook there okay so anybody who comes there Saturday or Sunday when there would be cooking happening at the site yeah because we have to prep you would be serving the meal there as well yes okay and the the kitchen is big enough to oh yeah cook 40 yeah yeah 300 square foot we if you see in the in the square in the map also it is a 300 350 square foot is not a big right now the Richie uh pizeria same same thing we going to keep it and is this facility ever going to be used at bank at rented for parties or as as as as a party hall or something no no it's strictly for Spiritual purpose the big Hall that's okay and then you said that you also made the um you made a contract agreement with Board of Ed do you have anything in writing of that nature that they are willing to do that with you in big event in case you have parking issues um I I can certainly answer that um when we approached the Board of Ed we did ask if they could enter into some sort of written agreement um that we could present to you their policy is that they make it available on a on a individual lease basis for each for any event that comes up so there is a written agreement each time that you ask to to rent out uh that space so if if we are asking for parking they will do a a written agreement at that time Mr I'm sorry Mr D just give me one second but that facility would be available all the time when you need it I'm just just saying that if you have an event and board of deite is taken by some body else you can do it what are you going to do is a permanent parking facility offsite or no we can we can go to not only there there only not one school there we could go to another another school which is which is available we don't mind to uh shuttle people from not only one particular location of the the of the school I'm okay with but I just want to make sure that whenever you have event you have facility available if not one school or the other so you are making sure that board of head would give you some kind of guarantee that something would be available where you can park and commute the people back and forth if if the board were to look favorable on this and wanted to make as a condition that we would have to provide anytime that there was going to be an anticipated event that we would have to provide proof to the township that we had adequate off-site parking and shuttle service uh we would certainly make that a condition yeah that would be probably part of the conditions because I know that neighborhood and there right there where you have this uh Sam's Supermarket there and that's a busy Junction there you know and you're right in front of that facility so I can understand that [Music] um and the hours are Monday to Friday and after 9:00 what the hours you said 9 9 to9 9 to9 Monday to Thursday and Friday 9 to 10 okay and after 10:00 all lights would be shut down parking lot would be empty no storage nothing no overnight parking there as thank you Mr chairman thank you Mr does any other members of the board have questions Mr chair I have a question for applicant um so you mentioned currently your Gathering occurs on Saturdays 1: to 4: p.m is that correct yeah 1 to 4 p.m. okay so you said approximately 40 people in the 2500 square feet um would it be safe to say that um since you're increasing the space from 2500 which is existing to 11,900 close to 12,000 would you would you say that the number of people would increase to 200 too or is that a safe assumption we uh hope hope that people like to understand the the the science about it and take take the interest in it and it may uh May uh uh more people can can can would like to know about about it okay so it's safe to say that by doing time making it basically five times greater than the existing location you're going to be increasing the occupancy level by five times one thing that I can certainly say is one of the things that was mentioned in one of the in I believe it was Mr Pig Nell's report um the capacity that we have set up the and the architect will get more into this and possibly the uh the engineer as well the we've set it up so that there's a Max Capacity of 175 people um at any one time in the uh in the establishment so we would also make as a condition if the board were to look U favorable on this that we limit any capacity to 175 people um it's certainly there's always the the expectation that we're going to grow from the 30 to 40 people that are coming consistently right now um but we're happy to set that cap we don't think it's going to be an issue that it's going to that it's going to increase by five times just because the space is bigger okay yeah my only concern was making 875 individuals um on a Saturday 1 to 4 pm across the Sam's Club that Junction does get busy that's that was my concern but um thank you but to be clear the 1 to 4 p.m. that's happening right now is only because the location that they're in right now it's limited to those time periods that they can use that location by having a location now that they can have more hours open and can allow more congregants to come in at different times it spreads out that congregation throughout the week so that you don't have a concentrated group coming at just that time on Saturdays understood thank you board have any other questions Mr chairman Vice chairman you have five holidays per High holidays per year do you have the dates for that no dates are not set because uh because we don't know when uh when when somebody from India coming those days we don't know all right the next store is is another their house of worship have you coordinated with their schedule I we met them but we didn't uh I didn't ask him what what is their hours or so I didn't so there was no coordination with with the neighbor at this time no no coordination there we we we did reach out to them as to inquiring whether they would be willing to uh to uh enter into a long-term parking agreement to possibly use some of their parking spaces when they're not in use um that was not something that we were we were able to put together um in terms of of coordinating uh with their schedule if they're having an event that's certainly something that that we can certainly do moving forward my understanding is that that quite frankly it's a it's a very very quiet and and not very um busy or intense use next door which is similar to what we're trying to model it on as well so we we think it's going to be generally a pretty quiet and a pretty limited use um which is what the which is my understanding of what the Buddhist uh Center is that's right next door all right thank you board have any other questions Mr Patel okay Mr pel I have um one question I have so the the celebration of the holidays um do they occur during the week or are they on weekends celebration of of the holiday so you say do you celebrate five holidays throughout the year the the the those celebrations would they happen occur during the week or would they happen on the weekend or is it variable variable right okay because my concern is that you're um you have you know you're working through this agreement where your your off-site parking overflow would go to a school so if your celebration occurs during school hours we have a problem because parking lots are going to be used for school use right but usually usually because we we we'd like to have people have more time on weekends so so usually Saturday is our our good good day you know that's why we meet meet here on on Saturdays so people have more the the school because we we encourage children also to come there so so most probably the our our weekends will be more convenient for us okay and if it's during the week would it be all be Beyond school hours say after 3: 400 p.m. if it is see during weekday we are not anticipating that high holidays okay and and suppose if it is there then it has to be after 5:00 okay okay is it safe to say that you have the flexibility yes to be able to to number one know when these are going to occur with long enough out to to uh coordinate the parking and to coordinate the days that it's going to happen it's not strictly a specific time on a specific day that you need to have a event correct you have some flexibility there yes yes okay all right thank you and then the uh use of the proposed apartment um could you provide an estimate as to how many nights per year that would be used no see for high holidays I said one one to three days so some suppose suppose in uh would it be fair to say less than a month out of the year it will be occupied yes yeah a couple days on each High holiday that maybe have a a visiting Guru or priest come right so if so approved you'd agree to a condition so not to exceed 30 nights per month 30 nights I'm sorry 30 nights per year yeah trying to think how many months we could do that yeah no no that's right right you right 30 nights per 30 nights per year you you would agree to that as a limit if so approv okay all right thank you very much sure okay Mr D so I'm a little confused I thought that five event that you have big events is only when the deug comes from India correct or you have other five events smaller events that you want to do at this Center that's right small event when he's uh uh close disciple we call uh his autra when APAP comes suppose they come in Pre April so they come for one or two days and but are you expecting big crowd for them as well no not big crows as as Mr Mr AR said that they come but they come but different the attendance will be different because they are they're going to be whole day so they are coming during day what whatever the the people want to come I I just want to make sure that when deug by comes or somebody comes you always have those event because sometime they stay here 3 four 5 Days event or long weekend events you always have those events somewhere else the other five events that you're talking about are not pulling that big crowd and you still want to use this facility this Center for those events without creating any parking issues that's what my understanding and that's your understanding that's right that's right okay all right okay thank you thank you any other questions Mr President wow Chairman's fine for right now but I got enough problems being I got enough problems in this chair I don't need pres thank you VI chairman is there going to be a daycare is this facility going to be used for daycare no no it's not daycare No Children daycare no children no no children I'm sorry children will be there for the study for for the class so if I could there is going to be a place where if you wanted to bring your child you could bring your child and they could also so learn and and take part um and there is an area where the children can play it's not a daycare there's not going to be any any arranged daycare services or anything along those lines correct that's right so the CH they'll have a place for the children during the masses or the events I don't want to say masses but if you brought in if you brought in your child there would be an area where the child could could play or or or be supervised while you're medit or praying uh for when you're there but it's not a set daycare for example you can't drop a child off and then go to work and come back and pick your child up and that's not the purpose and then there's no no uh no adult daycare either no no similarly there's no there there's no adult daycare services this isn't a facility where you're you're dropping somebody off and picking them up later okay and what about a lunch you're not going to are you going to serve a daily lunch um no I don't believe there's any daily lunch again there is a portion there is an aspect of the uh of the religion uh that involves uh offering food uh and that that is an aspect of it so there will be food that is going to be prepared there and is going to be available to um uh to congregants uh to come and make offering um but if there is not going to be a set lunch and there's not going to be any uh commercial sales of food or anything along those lines okay thank you but that would be limit I'm sorry Mr that would limited to just those events only right the food would be only on Saturday or Sunday not daily no the Prasad Prasad will be will be prepared when they were those people are attending they will be given if it is time see somebody come the morning 10:00 the Prasad the the dry Prasad will be there but if it is coming at 12:00 then it will be the different prad will be there so time from 9 to 9 the food would be always available and cooking would be there all the time no not we we cook we cook and we we we give the Prasad to the bhagan first and then whatever the prad we we give it to that's just the offering to the God and then right okay got it all right thank you any other questions okay thank you very much thank you sir thank you everybody thank you our next witness is Mike Marinelli our engineer you raise your right hand do you solemnly swear or affirm to tell the whole truth nothing but the truth so help you God I do okay and state your full name for the record it's Michael Marinelli m a r i n l l i of men law engineering located at 261 Cleveland avue Highland Park New Jersey Mr marinell if you could just please give us a brief summary of your background qualifications sure I'm a graduate of Ruckers University class of 1999 uh I've been studying land use and land planning since that time uh I'm a licensed professional in state of New Jersey uh have been for the last 17 years my license is current I have provided testimony in front of many many boards including this one uh over the years uh where I've been accepted as a a witness we'll accept you thank you so much thank you Mr chair uh Mr Marinelli if you can please just take us through uh the site tell us what the existing conditions are tell us what the proposal is and if you can hit upon any of the uh comments uh in any of the reports while you do it that'd be great as well I'll refer the board to the exhibit I have on the easel I'll mark it as exhibit A1 uh is was this part of the submission to the board it was not this is a this is A1 um Mr Arch we would like to have uh submissions to the board secretary that are in a smaller version so she can keep them on file uh certainly we'll provide that be provided yes yes thank you this is A1 okay so I've marked it as exhibit A1 it's entitled 52 Vineyard Road existing conditions exhibit dated 1217 2024 uh it's an Aral representation of the the subject site uh which is outlined by a highlighted black line it's generally rectangular in shape uh the north is in the up Direction so Vineyard Road runs on the right side of this exhibit uh North and South Johnstone Street runs east and west along the bottom portion of this exhibit and the Costco um I'm sorry Sam's Club Center is immediately across the street uh via this signalized intersection the lot is designated as block 1111 lot 54 on the tax map of Edison Township properly commonly known as 52 Vineyard Road is located as I said on the northwest corner of the intersection of Vineyard Road and Johnstone Street the property has existing access points along both both both frontages actually if you can note on this exhibit the both the eastern uh side of the property and a majority of the Southeastern portion of the site there's actually perpendicular parking so it's not really driveway access it's the Pressed curb where patrons Who currently uh are patrons to the existing restaurant/bar pull in perpendicularly off of the two frontages there is a uh a remainder part parking lot on the western side of the site overall the property is approximately 0.9 acres and is located entirely within uh the RB residential Zone uh although it is a residential Zone there are conditional uh uses in that zone uh one of which is a place of worship but we do not fit all of the criteria uh for that conditional which is why we're in front of the the use uh land use board this evening uh as you can see the site is founded on uh mostly on the vineyard roadside are commercial in nature uh as the Dharma drum uh a religious uh facility is immediately to our North uh there the daycare center across Johnson Street on the south and then the western side is a continuation of the RB Zone with single family uh residential uh as you can see the site is currently developed with a uh an existing bar in P Pizzeria commonly known as Richies I'm sure many have have been there over the years it's approximately 6,653 squ feet uh in size uh there are 65 spaces on on the site however only 50 are currently available uh due to the canopy that was put uh behind Richie uh dur during covid and and has been utilized as an outdoor uh Tiki Bar uh ex um exterior uh dining and and some Recreation you can see in the AAL there's some cornhole boards and picnic tables out there as well um so what we're here this evening seeking approval for if I may mark this as exhibit A2 Mr marinell before you continue I just wanted to the record to reflect that Mr Carly has arrived thank you I'm happy to see you uh the exhibit that is now on the easel I've just marked it as exhibit A2 is entitled 52 Vineyard Road overall plan exhibit uh dated 1217 uh 2024 it's the same subject property with the aerial background as you saw in exhibit A1 however we've we've highlighted uh in different colors the proposed uh improvements to the subject site uh you'll see the the lighter brown color is the existing footprint of the existing uh Bar and Restaurant uh there are two darker areas on the North uh Northwest and Southwest portions these are areas where the existing building has jogs in it and you'll hear a little bit more from the architect but the intention is to square off the building uh to provide a little bit more square footage on the first floor and then uh add a second floor onto the facility um as part of the improvements you'll see that the the outdoor seating area and canopy and fencing or to be removed um and then the additions that are being constructed are on only 568 sare ft uh on the first floor uh the Second Story being 4721 uh as was noted earlier the total square footage of the building uh when it when it is two stories would be 11,942 square ft uh you'll also note that we're we're significantly improving the circulation of the site as I noted on exhibit A1 all of the perpendicular parking spaces where patrons when leaving would have to back out on the Johnstone Street and Vineyard Road no longer have that capability we've we've curbed and and provided additional landscape along those those two front edges on on the Southeast corner of the structure there is a a singular one-way driveway in where people can pull in off a Vineyard Road and drop patrons or visitors off at the front door um and and circulation continues to the South to the corner and then ultimately West uh where there are four parallel spaces available immediately adjacent to the building and then a full circulation driveway with only one um egress Ingress so all of those openings and flush curb and all of that is being removed in the proposed condition to so that patrons coming and going to the new facility the religious facility will have a two-way driveway in and out off of johnone Street and a simple Ingress off of Vineyard Road um it was requested by your professionals and the applicant agreed to Mill and overlay the entire parking area to provide a fresh new uh slate restripe it to provide 40 uh 9 by uh 18 parking spaces it's actually 36 9 by8 parking spaces the parallel spaces are 22t long in order to provide better access uh when when parallel parking uh we also are providing for Ev spaces uh which which the the applicant gains uh credit for so we're proposing 44 spaces where uh 44 spaces is required um I gave you the square footage of the building but the the parking calculation for a facility like this a religious facility is based off of number of seats now this this uh facility doesn't necessarily have seats but if you refer to and I'm sure the architect will speak to it there there are position prayer positions for 175 patrons and that's what our parking calculation was based off of uh as Mr Arch had indicated the applicant would also agree to a condition of the approval to limit that uh occupancy to 175 any 175 pagents at any given time uh we are providing brand new Ada spaces and accessibility into uh the proposed uh facility in addition to milling and overlaying and providing brand new striping the applicant is also prop proposing to beautify the site with uh improvements to the frontages if I can pull up exhibit A1 real quick uh you'll you'll note that along the frontages there's no green space it is paved from from property line to the rways on on both frontages the entire length of those frontages now if you note on exhibit A2 we've taken this opportunity when when providing these new safer egresses to also take out a lot of that pavement provide a real sidewalk that that's both ADA Compliant uh and provide additional Green Space in those areas you also note that along the parking area immediately adjacent to both Johnstone and Vineyard we've added low-lying Shrubbery and more green space on site to help buffer the existing parking lot that's there and make it uh nicer looking uh there is an existing dumpster location on the North northeast corner that is to remain uh no new utilities are being proposed again this is an existing structure that the applicant is adding on to uh so no new Services unless it it's deemed that uh from the Fire official that additional waterers necessary for the the proposed fire suppression system uh as I say said there's also uh lighting and Landscape improvements uh We've provided three new shade trees uh 82 evergreen shrubs uh 26 ground cover plantings again making the site um nicer from from the athetic perspective uh we do seek relief for several of the ordinance requirements um as it relates to landscape uh including uh you know trees for wooded area Street trees uh it it had been asked by the professionals to provide additional Street trees along Johnstone Street unfortunately there there's a series of utility poles and overhead wires along that Frontage that would preclude us from adding uh additional Street trees along that area so the applicant would uh in that relief seek to pay to the tree fund uh for the deficiencies in uh Street trees wooded area trees and parking perimeter trees um there is a small uh 4ft wide residential uh buffer to the residential immediately to the West uh but it's currently just an evergreen row with a chainlink fence the applicant is proposing to provide a a six foot high solid Stockade Fence similar to the fence that was provided between the DD MBA uh project and the uh existing restaurant uh to to help that uh buffer along that Frontage uh as I stated we're also proposing some new Lighting on on the site including five pole pole mounted dark dark sky compliant LED fixtures these are only mounted at 12T high so they're relatively low as compared to a normal commercial uh facility um and there are two wallmounted LED fixtures mounted at only 9 ft high and that's to provide safe uh a safe area for the parking uh it was recommended by your professionals and the applicant has agreed to put those lights on timers so that when the facility isn't being occupied those lights aren't on needlessly uh with the with the exception any security lighting that would be immediately available outside uh outside the building uh with respect to security cameras would be put up at this facility to to uh deter any uh people from trying to access the site in the night hours and and provide any uh that type of security from a stormore management perspective uh you could see we're reducing impervious coverage we don't trigger the storm order management rule as it relates to the BMP we're we're there's not a quarter acre of new impervious in fact we're reducing the impervious coverage on site there isn't an acre of disturbance uh because we're other than the small building additions and tearing out a lot of the asphalt and editing grass areas we're really not doing much so from a store management perspective we meet all the criteria for uh quantity quality and groundwater recharge simply because we're reducing the amount of impervious on on the subject site um as it relates to not existing non-conformances uh and it's one of the reasons it is the reason we're in front of this board is I'm sorry the reason we are in front of this board is uh because we don't meet the conditions of the conditional use and that a lot of that relates to the lot area lot width and sidey yard uh these are all existing conditions the lot area is 69 Acres where three acres are required the lot width uh is 100 is 100 feet wide where 200 is required and the sidey yard setback of six feet is required and the building is in essence zero along the northern property line as far as setbacks go again these are all existing conditions but because of that uh minimal part um area of the lot we we can't meet the conditions of that conditional approval and as you can see the site is completely developed on all sides around it and no additional land could be uh attained in order to meet those area requirements uh we're seeking a couple bulk variances this evening the first being building coverage uh the maximum permitted uh building coverage is 23% uh we're providing we're requesting relief for 23.9 so it's less than 1% over the maximum requirement for building coverage uh however we are reducing the overall impervious coverage on the site by 6% so we're offset setting that additional impervious coverage uh for these small building additions that I spoke of uh with additional landscape area and less impervious coverage the second bulk variants we're requesting relief from this evening is the impervious coverage uh 91.9% where 40% Max is permitted uh again this is a reduction of the existing in the existing condition 98.2% exists uh and 91.8 so it's over 6% reduction in impervious coverage on the site even though we uh seek relief uh and finally the the signage which I'll defer to the the architect uh regarding relief sought for signage that is my direct testimony I can go through the professional letters or the board that was my that was my next question so if we could start with Mr Carly's report surely I'm referring to DNR Delaware Ron engineering review letter dated December 11th 2024 I have had the opportunity to review that letter um in detail and we agree to comply with a majority of the comments contained therein uh the only notes that I wanted to make I believe I provided in my direct testimony but there was a question yeah there's a question related to security whether security would be provided and uh as I stated cameras will be uh implemented at this site both internally and externally for security measures uh with with the exception of providing that testimony that he requested I believe we can address all the other concerns or comments uh within that letter of December 11th unless Charlie had any additional questions Mr Carly as uh Mr Marinelli uh referenced we issued a report on December 11th uh and uh as this testimony Avers uh it's an existing facility uh traffic uh that's uh caused by the existing use certainly would be more intensive than traffic that is uh would be caused by the proposed use uh what I like from a uh traffic uh access uh uh perspective is presently uh you can just pull in to the uh parking lot about wherever you want to along the uh property's respective frontages on the vineyard and Johnstone uh in the proposed condition you'd have two managed uh accesses but we do ask uh Mr Marinelli to provide testimony relative to the oper operations engine the oper operational area of the uh of the signal uh the driveway that you're proposing which is a full access driveway on Johnstone uh in your professional opinion would that interfere with the operational area of the signal in my professional opinion I don't believe so but we do have a traffic engineer as one of our Witnesses this evening that I think would be better suited to answer okay and then the that's the the uh uh the big question uh from my report the rest of the question uh the rest of the report has to do with uh just making sure you are pro uh providing modest uh storm water management improvements uh making sure your points of connection are adequate your Downstream uh conduits are clear and in good shape and uh I'm sure you'll do that and then also just making sure and certifying that your existing sanitary and portable uh uh water supply services are uh adequate to the uh proposal I would expect that they are if you're going from a bar restaurant use to a house of worship use but it's your license and uh we would like you to put your seal on that of course we'd agree to comply with all of those conditions as as are stated in the December 11th letter okay thank you Mr chair thank you Mr Carly Mr BAU I may have missed it but did you agree to my comments or I did well not not specifically so I will put that on record now referring to Mr Bell uh's letter of B bignell planning Consultants Incorporated dated December 16th 2024 I've had the opportunity to review that letter in detail and agree to comply uh W with the items in in that letter I did have a couple notations that I just wanted to clarify Andor provide testimony as required by that letter uh we again have agreed to limit the occupancy to 175 I believe Mr bigd your letter you there's a typo says 75 is in fact 175 occupancy um there is a request to provide additional buffering uh we can't provide additional buffing with buffering without losing additional parking right um you'll see that we've modified the existing asphalt as much as much as is possible there is an 8ft buffer along the Frontage which be added additional landscape that again is significantly better than than the site exists today uh and referring to Mr Carly's uh comments earlier even this driveway being shifted down is significantly better uh as it as it relates to the traffic signal at Vineyard Road uh in the in the proposed condition uh I noted that we are in lie of a additional buffering we're also providing a six foot high solid fence along the western property line and agreed to Mill and overlay the entire parking lot uh as it relates to landscape uh there was a comment that or suggestion that we increase the calber of the trees uh the street tree um I'm sorry the deciduous trees at planting and we had agreed to do that um as get you a credit for for extra credit uh for our deficiency in landscape Mr chairman Mr B yeah I don't have no problem with the reduced buffer I would assume that the prior activity made a lot in the middle of the night than the new activity coming out of the bar so I don't I think that it's an improvement great M you have anything else um the um pipeline buffering yes all right you'll submit the letters and then um what else the um uh loading at the facility do you anticipate loading at the site or we do not I mean there are no really real anticipated deliveries and any such deliveries that would be made would be the standard FedEx you you know Amazon truck that wouldn't occupy or necessitate a loading area so they should seek a waiver for them the loading requirements of the ordinance and I agree with the 175 that was just a typo on my part okay thank you thank you Mr pel um so before we go to the board I actually have one question so your proposed fence on the western property line is proposed at six feet um but on your Frontage you're you're proposing up to 8 feet of buffering would you consider bringing your fence line up to 8T yeah so the just to be clear the 8ot is the width of that buffering okay not the height uh but yes the applicant would agree to to provide on the Western on the western okay I just wanted to you know uh ensure some more greater privacy for the residential adjacent surely and that that is also up on a small uh retaining wall it's a um a wooden retaining wall that exists today so providing the a would really help with mitigating to the property owners to our West excellent thank you very much does the board have any questions for Mr Marinelli can I oh sorry we we did have two other review letters police and fire so if I can touch on them briefly uh we have a a letter from the Edison Township uh traffic control coordinator uh from the police department dated December 6th uh in his letter he he notes that we're seeking relief or for a variance on on street parking that's not accurate I guess he misunderstood I'm not sure if he was looking at the existing condition where there is parking that backs up into the roadway but I just wanted to be clear that um we aren't proposing any on street parking uh he does make a note that he'd like to see no stopping or standing sign signage and striping being added along johnst Johnstone Street on the North side along our property unfortunately that's like a Township committee ordinance that has to be passed so um should this board want something like that they would have to go to the Town Council and request them provide that we wouldn't have to you'd have to it would bounce back between the two of you I guess is what ultimately happens right because it's a new ordin bouncing Jello we don't bounce jello with them but so we would like to not have to provide that but should the board uh require it of course we would work with you in order to get that obtained and finally I have a uh letter from Edison Township dated December 5th 20 24 uh from the fire chief um the easier of the two comments is provide the existing and proposed fire hydrants in the area of course we would provide that plan and and uh get his opinion on whether additional uh hydrant would be located uh nearer to the site uh the second though is a uh a turning radius compliance plan for the for the fire truck in Edison um in if if I refer to exhibit A1 you'll see that even today a fire truck isn't able to Traverse on the eastern and southern side of the uh existing building that's not changing in the proposed condition there's just not enough geometry there for for them to be able to to make that maneuver uh so as if there were a fire there today at the restaurant The Fire Company would have to fight it from the two frontages additionally in my experience uh and and the fire code specifically fire trucks aren't supposed to be parked within what's considered the fall zone of the building uh that's one and a half times the height of the the the structure right so with a 20t structure you can't have a fire truck within 30 feet of a of a building anyway and there isn't 30 feet of pavement available in either the existing proposed uh condition so we'd seek relief from providing a truck movement that shows a fire truck being able to navigate the southeast corner of the building we can show something entering Johnstone Street and and and parking inside the parking lot should the fire company want to fight a fire from inside the parking lot but that would be the extent of what we'd be able to offer the Fire official if so approved would you agree to provide this in writing to Chief to um and then possibly meet with him whatever he prefers so this issue can be resolved yes okay thank you okay board have any questions we have a Traffic Engineers okay thanks Mr Mr s yeah do we have uh handicap parking uh spots and then is the building accessible to handicap people yes uh they're located so in the center island of parking they're located on the Eastern side of that closest to the entrance okay and the grades are such that it is compliant into the building okay and there is no basement right there's not that I'm aware of but I defer to the architect okay thank you thank you any other questions okay all right oh chairman okay in reference to the Loading Docks so the kitchen's not going to require any loading docks no the applicant has indicated to us that loading is not NE necessary for their congregation so there won't be any tractor trailers delivering anything all right none okay any other questions Mr Marinelli seeing none thank you very much M George our next witness would be the architect Miss uh Britney clim Mr President because I'm wearing a red tie [Music] I think that's good yeah hello hello would you raise your right hand you solemnly swear or to tell the whole truth nothing but the truth help you got yes I do and please State your full name for the record Britney clim k l i mm must claim if you could please give the board uh some of your background qualifications sure um I'm a licensed architect in the state of New Jersey I have a u bachelor degree from nor Eastern University as well as a master's degree from North Eastern I've been licensed in the state of New Jersey since 2012 my license is in good standing and I've presented uh for uh for many boards but not here in Edison oh welcome thank you we'll accept you thank you uh Miss clim if you can if you can please just uh briefly take us through uh essentially what the the floor plan is going to look like um and if you could focus on um the signage as well because I know we're asking for some relief on that all right um so the first page I'm going to show you was submitted it's a 1.01 and it shows the existing building and um photo of the existing four facades the existing building is 6,653 square feet it is as previously stated a bar and restaurant it provides um liquor and pizza and it's in a deteriorated condition at the moment and as you can see in many of the images there's a lot of haphazard signage going on um flipping to a 2.01 a 2.01 shows the um proposed first floor as well as proposed um partial second floor we're squaring off the back of the building with um with one straight line and squaring off the front corner the uh new footprint will be 7,221 Square ft we're proposing to add a second story which will have 4,721 square ft the entire building is intended to be used for house of worship on the first floor we have a reception area bathrooms uh staircase elevator and the prayer Hall which seats 149 um seated and then when you open into the dining area for um a larger congregation it would be the additional 20 6 spaces so that's how we're getting to the 175 um typically this door would be kept closed and you would enter the dining area um when you're receiving your offerings and we have the kitchen in the back which is roughly where it is now and um another stairwell a vestibule that goes to the rear parking area office AV room and um some utility space the utilities are moved slightly back in the building uh upstairs we have a meeting room kids room the staircase and elevator that come up a classroom uh toilet rooms uh Corridor Space Storage and in the back we have the um uh the small apartment it is a studio apartment or studio um space similar to uh like a hotel room with a small kitchenette in it and um and a bathroom for the priest who is visiting as well as access to that rear stair um and then there's a um an area where it is uh the prayer Hall below that area is um not filled in with second floor space um going to the exterior facade so um we're proposing uh completely new finishes throughout the building on the exterior as well as interior but on the exterior we're going to have um stucco and new windows it's going to be a big enhancement from what's currently there we're getting rid of those um uh there's pilasters that run along the edge of I think it's Johnstone Street and those will be those will be removed uh we have two signs one on the uh one on each Corner well one on the corner here here and one on the center on the front uh for wayf finding and there'll be um while we do have a variance for those they are going to be much less substantial than what is there now and much neater they're going to be internally lit pin mounted um Channel letters and as I stated they're going to provide wayf finding they won't be distracting they're going to help clean up the site and they will coordinate with the rest of the architecture of the building um the building is going to meet all the Ada codes and it's going to be um a big enhancement to what is currently on the site um this is a rendering I don't know if this has been marked in or not um I don't know if that was provided um to be on the safe side if we can just Mark that A3 A3 also need again that's be thank you so if we can just Mark that A3 as the uh architectural rendering yes architectural rendering it is showing um primarily from Vineyard Road but also showing this side along Johnstone and here you can see as we discussed the signage you can see how it will uh appear on the building and you can see um some of the Landscaping that the engineer spoke to and um striping and new asphalt and new parking layout that completes my direct testimony thank you and just to be clear none of those uh signs are facing the residential areas that are in the in the back correct that is correct they do not face the residences I have no further questions thank you does the board have any questions M Clen yeah Mr chairman m d the canopy what's the size of the canopy let me see if I can pull it off the plan cross traffic I'm just looking at a smaller version of the same plan uh the front one is 15 ft wide by 10 ft deep and the rear canopy is 9 ft wide by 5 ft deep and the 10 ft is coming on the you're using that entrance from The Vineyard yeah you're using that Vineyard you're Ingress to drop off the the um congregants right correct in front of the canopy I just make sure the canopy is high enough so vehicle do not hit that canopy what's the height of the canopy at the bottom of the canopy let me see if it's on my elevation yes 11 ft okay the front is 11 ft the rear is 10 ft so 11 ft should be enough to clear the vehicles okay thank you thank you Mr chairman any other questions Mr chair Mr ch um so my first question would be would there be a basement there is no basement currently and there's no basement proposed it's a slab currently one floor you guys are adding a second floor correct so the existing floor right now it's the roof that roof would be ripped off and a replacement how what is proposed in the plans yes there will be an addition um the second floor is an a new addition the um the existing uh roof will be ripped off new structure will be provided the second floor and then on top of that a new roof system um and I I actually did not include in my testimony yet um the building will get new uh insulation throughout so it'll be brought up to a higher energy code okay and I see as per the plans the 7,221 square feet for the first floor that is to remain this there's no additions to the existing first floor the footprint is to remain the same is that correct that is not correct the first floor currently has a notch on the side facing Johnstone and um uh and Vineyard and then in the rear there have been a series of um uh I don't know if I don't know if they addition are original but the the back is quite Jagged and we're squaring it off so right now it is 96' 4 and2 Ines at its deepest and in the proposed plan it is identical and we are um we're squaring off the back it's 96 feet 4 and a half inches again okay and the top floor is roughly going to be approximately uh 2500 ft less but uh yes that seems about right and it's just going to be open from the top uh it's going the prayer Hall is a double height space okay similar to what we're in here it'll be um it'll have more ceiling height okay and what's the ceiling height for the first floor and the second floor so the the second floor is set at 15 foot6 and obviously that will um that will take into account some structure so it'll be maybe 12 or 13 feet high and then um the uh the roof line above is another 15 feet high from there okay and what is the current right now height of the building um just curious for perspective from the road the site triangle what's the current top of building and what's the proposed new top of building the height difference I do not have the height I don't know if the civil engineer has the height handy I don't have the existing height but it's a single story building right now okay but that height you guys aren't expanding that first floor's height that's that's my main question right correct it's not expanding the first floor height okay just building on top yeah all right thank you any other questions I'll note that we're complying with the height as well okay thank you excuse me uh Mr chair Mr CH what's going to be the total height of the building the total height of the building is 34 foot 6 in okay all right and that goes to the top of the roof surface okay any other questions okay thank you very much Mr Arch uh next up we call John Ray our traffic engineer do you want me to address any of the letters um coming for uh I don't believe we need to address any uh any any other particulars in the letters I think we're good thank you my okay to leave my uh yeah fine swear or to tell the whole truth nothing but the truth to help you guys I do and state your full name for the record John Ray re EA Mr Ray you've appeared before the board prior um if you just give the board a brief summary of your background qualifications sure I'm a liced professional engineer in the state of New Jersey my field of specialty is traffic engineering I have a total of 50 years experience in the traffic engineering field an undergraduate degree in civil engineering and a master's degree in transportation engineering and I've appeared before many boards including this board over the past 35 40 years your license are current in good standing yes sir great you may proceed thank you thank you Mr Ray uh please take it away okay well uh essentially in this case because there is an existing use on the property Richie Sports Bar and restaurant we did what we call a traffic statement so the scope of the study involved going out to the site looking at the existing roadway and traffic conditions in the area which it appears as though everybody is well familiar with we did traffic generation estimates for the house of worship and as Mr Patel had testified to it's a little different than a standard house of worship but that's the only l use category that the Institute of Transportation Engineers has for a use such as this so that's what we used for traffic generation estimates uh we also did traffic generation estimates for the sports bar and restaurant and basically comparing the two uses as Mr Carly had indicated and I agree with him the proposed use the house of worship will generate less traffic than the existing Sports Bar and restaurant and there's also a packaged liquor store at the site and I could go through some numbers for you just to show you what the the scope of that difference is on a weekend day the uh Sports Bar and restaurant would generate over 1100 total two-way traffic movements into and off the site the house of worship based on the capacity in the sanctuary of 175 seats would generate a little bit less than 400 trips on a weekend uh day so we're talking about almost three times as as much traffic from the existing Sports Bar and restaurant the peak hour numbers is similar the proposed use will generate less traffic and I think it it's pretty clear too if you look at the parking that's provided as Mr Marinelli indicated there are are 65 parking spaces that have been provided for the sports bar and restaurant but because of the outdoor tent I think they've taken up 16 spaces so but they still have 50 spaces we're only providing 44 spaces which is in ordance with the Edison Township ordinance so we are not seeking a parking variance we're providing the adequate and you know proper number of parking spaces so I think it's pretty clear from the traffic generation estimates and the parking that's being provided that this will be a less intense use than the existing use from a traffic standpoint one of the most important things that I had to do is take a look at Mr marinelli's plans take a look at the existing access to and from the site uh there's been some discussion about how that operates but quite frankly the way it operates today and especially off Vineyard Road which is a very busy road traffic pulls in 90° use uses perpendicular parking spaces and so when they leave the site they have to back out into the right of way of Vineyard Road in order to go either North or South we're going to clean that issue up we're going to install a oneway inbound only driveway on Vineyard Road Mr Marinelli went over the the plan I've reviewed it I think it's way Superior to what exists today with respect to Traffic Safety same thing occurs on Johnstone Street we're going to organize that traffic flow into one two-way driveway which will serve the parking lot we're going to get that traffic flow organized it is going to be a little bit less chaotic if you want to describe it that way where traffic just pulls in 90 degrees in Parks perpendicular to both Vineyard Road and Johnstone street so that is a significant safety benefit in my opinion so on balance um really it it's easy for a traffic engineer in my estimation to conclude that we're going to be a less intensive use than the existing use and most importantly we're going to clean up the access to the site provide dedicated curb cuts and make the access to and from the property much safer than it is today and that basically summarizes it okay does the board have any questions Mr Ray yeah Mr chairman the biggest concern I have is you have an Ingress at uh V Road people coming from Route One coming out of Sam's Club if they had to make left in your facility that there is not enough room there to back up my my um I I think most of the traffic that's heading north on Vineyard Road is going to make a left turn at Johnstone Street and enter via John the Johnstone Street curb cut that that would make the most sense I agree with you there's probably during weekends there's going to be a queue in the left turn lane on Vineyard Road that would prohibit you from making a left turn into the site uh I don't think people are going to try to do that during peak hours I think the only time people will make that left turn would be during off peak hours I think for the most part the Northbound Vineyard Road Traffic would make the left turn at Johnstone Street and that's where the main parking lot is located but coming out of the uh Edison cross site uh the way it's set up yeah you would probably have to make a right turn I don't know how many people would be coming to the facility from the Sam's Club from the Edison Crossing I guess it's possible you would be surprised if they and they want to go there I know that that is my biggest concern if you had to make a left turn there from coming out of Sam's Club that is not enough room there yeah the way it's set up it would be difficult um to make that left into the site they'd have to you know wait for somebody to give them a courtesy Gap that would be the only way to get it if you're coming from Sam's Club I agree do you have to have that entrance from Vineyard Road excuse me do you have to have that entrance from the vard road this I certainly think it makes sense if you look at the overall site plane plan and the layout it makes sense to at least it'll be very easy for people coming south on Vineyard Road to make a right turn and enter the site and uh without having to go through through the traffic light and go through the intersection so I do think it makes sense it's only going to be an Ingress only I I've got to be honest with you I couldn't stand here and defend an exit movement out onto Vineyard I couldn't do that and that's why when I reviewed the plan with Mr Marinelli we agreed it had to be an Ingress only I know why you're doing that you know to just for the traffic flow pattern but that's my biggest concern about congestion on vard road when somebody has to make a left from there eventually people would learn not to make that left thank you Mr chairman thank thank you sir Mr Carly yes uh just to provide Clarity from Sam's Club uh the physical condition out there uh is you have two lanes but they are skewed you are forced to take a right uh from Edison Town Square onto Vineyard Road or you are forced to take a left onto Edison Town Square onto Vineyard Road at the signal you don't have the option of making that wiggle that's correct if you point to it m uh Mr Ry you'll see looking at a A2 right now yeah if you point it out you see that physically you can't take the quick right and then the quick left you can't get on to Johnstone Street yeah that's true physically prohibited from doing that a modified British tea as Mr Big Nell is said yeah it's it's just the way the intersection set up look the bottom line is the intersection and the traffic signal is set up to make it the most efficient for all the traffic that's coming out of Edison Crossing and and it makes sense from that perspective this property by virtue of where it's located there's really not a lot we can do about that we're not going to modify the way the intersection is set up it's set up to be efficient for the Edison Crossing traffic and our you know uh congregants are going to have to deal with that issue I'm certain once they go to Sam's Club and then try to come to the temple after they go to S they won't do it again they'll do they'll figure out a way to get in without using this the traffic signal so Mr Ray my thinking is is similar to Mr dav's but I'm thinking my thinking is if if someone's coming from if they're going northbound on Vineyard um and they're going rather than make the left at Johnstone they make the left into the uh Ingress only driveway it's then going to then it could then bottle up traffic past that left turn only so my thinking is is that if you consider the possibility of making the Ingress Ingress driveway only right turn only so it would then it would then cut down on that let me talk to my yeah I I understand I I honestly do think most people heading north and Vineyard are going to turn on Johnstone because if you look look at the site plan there's really only four parking spaces that are accessible from Vineyard Road and the other 40 spaces are in the main part off Johnstone but I think we're discussing that right now I I understand your concern and yeah okay um I believe we would be agreeable to to the left turn to restrict it uh to restrict no left Turnin and make right there thank you very much makes sense okay uh is any other questions Mr R Mr chair Mr Cher I have a question um so your estimated table um how did you come up with that did you just I'm just curious it's based on the square footage of the restaurant and the IT The Institute of Transportation Engineers numbers and the 175 seat um maximum um potential for the sanctuary the main sanctuary is there any studies done did yeah did yeah the The Institute of Transportation on the site were there any studies done on the site on Richie's site no we didn't do traffic counts because quite frankly I don't think so 1100 cars are going into riches on a Sunday you're exactly right but the issue here is the use it's not necessarily Richies is it's a local use it could very easily be I mean if a if a chain like Tommy's Tavern and tap or Brick House Tavern took that site over these numbers could easily be achieved okay but right now as it as it is being Richies you don't achieve those numbers I agree okay so would you agree that the current traffic would increase from what the current existing condition is I haven't done traffic counts at Richie so so I I I'm not sure I could agree to that but um I understand what your question is but all I'm saying the use itself a sports bar a restaurant in a package liquor store based on the it numbers if it were to be if somebody were to buy that property and reuse it and re and you know modernize it and and like I said a national or a state chain would take it over you probably would would see those numbers okay I would prefer to see some numbers on the existing site um on that matter okay we didn't do that simply because we look at the use not the you know it it could be operated by anybody okay but we understand I understand your question all right thank you any other questions for Mr Ray okay uh Mr Arch we're going to take about a three minute recess we're going to give the court reporter a chance to rest her fingers and uh we'll be back absolutely we have one Final witness thank you thank you yes for e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e board return to session Mr Arch uh thank you I'd like to just recall Miss clim for one quick question by objection uh miss clim you had uh you had testified as to the height of the building can you please just clarify as to what the height of the actual building will be hello there you go okay um the height of the building will be 32 feet even okay does that include all enclosures on the roof no that that's to the roof surface um any screening for rooftop units would be would extend above that right that doesn't get calculated in there that is allowed by by code by ordinance screen yes we are providing screening and it is toward the um do you mind if I continue for a moment oh certainly okay um and the uh the rooftop units are pushed closer to the front of the building not so close as to be heavily visible from the road I mean if you look at it in this direction it looks like they are much larger but that's a straight on view when you're looking at an an angle from the street you're not going to see as much of the roof you might see it peeking up slightly with the um with the enclosure but it will screen on all four sides and it will be it's positioned as far from the residences as possible thank you thank you uh one Final witness and that's our professional planner that's uh John teina you Solly um affirm or swear that you will tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth help you GL I do and state your full name for the record please hi I got it pleas check your mic hi I'm John taen I'm licensed planner in their state of New Jersey have been I completed my studies at University in 1992 I've spent the majority of my 32-year career doing this testify on behalf of applicants around the state um more than 180 different boards and I've been here before nice to see you again and your license are current in good standing current and in good standing 7th we'll accept you thank you thank you thank you John if you can please uh take the board through the benefits of your analysis of this proposal certainly um so we are proposing a house of worship in the RB district is conditional use unfortunately we do not meet um the conditions for lot area and lot width accordingly we need a D3 variance um where we don't meet the standards of a conditional use um as you know this the case there is called seek of the Wall Township um it provides the road map in terms of the findings for the board to make it is a four-step balancing test the first one is to evaluate the public interest served by this inherently beneficial use and again it of worship is inherently beneficial by Statute um so this religious use serves as a community Gathering Place that enhances the culture of the community accordingly it meets uh the standard of promoting the general welfare um we then to need to identify any detrimental effects that would ensue from the granted the variance and again these variances relate to the existing conditions on the site specifically the lot area and the lot width um again we don't have any uh Det that is going to uh occur because of the lot area and the lot width we're able to provide for uh essentially the existing building and significantly improved site conditions uh through Mr Mar marinelli's work um so we don't believe will'll have any detri detrimental impacts we've also had additional improvements as suggested by the board in terms of additional screening to our residents to the West so again with the lowering in impervious surfaces with the additional screening with the improved Landscaping improved lighting and a dramatically improved uh looking building that Miss clim put up there really it looks tremendous uh there are certainly uh no negative uh detriments as a result of not meeting that condition finally can we reduce these detrimental impacts Again by those measures that the board is has requested and the applicants agreed to I believe we have reduced any detrimental effects and then finally the board should wait the positive negative criteria uh and determine whether the granted a variance would would have a substantial detriment to the public good or the Zone plan in the master plan so again once again there will not be any detriments and I will review the positive and negative criteria as it relates um to the use VAR to the D3 variance and it relates to our B variances um so we believe that the site Still Remains suitable for the proposed use even though it doesn't meet these conditions um we also believe we're proposing uh to further the following purposes of the municipal anus law I apologize I do read them and I have to read them slowly or I'm going to get hit um purpose a to encourage Municipal action to guide appropriate use or development of all lands in the state in a manner which promotes the public health safety morals and general welfare also purpose G to provide sufficient space and appropriate locations for a variety of agricultural residential Recreation commercial and Industrial uses and open space both public and private according to their respective environmental requirements to meet the needs of New Jersey citizens and purpose I to promote a desirable visual environment through creative development techniques and good Civic design and Arrangement again as an inherently beneficial use we promote the general welfare we believe this is an appropriate location in your RB Zone on the edge of a commercial District across the street to provide for uh these type of Civic uses they benefit from the access and the exposure uh especially for a center such as this which will have uh both a local and Regional draw um we are going to have our larger events as uh as Mr Dave said um you know offsite Etc but again this type of cultural center will certainly be growing in the area and is this is an appropriate location on Vineyard Road uh with good access uh and then finally uh again as as Miss climbs uh building is is set up there and I'm glad she left it there this will be a substantial visual Improvement to that corner Vineyard Road and this Gateway into that residential neighborhood um in terms of uh our negative criteria as we said no detriment public good um the underlying zoning already recognizes the proposed use as appropriate um and we have uh mitigation in terms of again reduced impervious surfaces additional land escaping additional buffering lower lighting uh again all uh which will be a substantial uh benefit to that neighborhood that is there uh and then in terms of our master plan and our Zone plan we align with the following goals of the township of Edison master plan uh newly adopted on July 15 2024 the ink is still wet um it one of the goals is to uh selectively utilize Redevelopment to facilitate strategic revitalization of under utilized in challenging sites and again I think this uh is certainly a challenging site that will benefit from this Redevelopment the applicant is proposing to reutilize an an existing site rather than starting on a Green Field this eliminates that underutilized poor condition site uh additionally a objective is to reduce impervious surfaces and Implement green infrastructure strategies and again we are reducing improv surfaces by uh 6% uh to embrace collaboration to support recreational cultural and educational opportunities the township recognizes that partnership and and collaboration with Community organizations and institutions can play a critical role in providing a range of opportunities for residents so again your master plan specifically uh talks about embracing these types of uh institutions in your community um plan comprehensively for improve Community oriented facilities to serve all Edison residents and to support Edison arts and culture Cal organizations and institutions so again your your Township recognizes the significant role that arts in cultural institutions have in the quality of life of residents and creating a sense of community so again um I think we are advancing these uh purposes these goals and objectives of your master plan and in no way impairing them in terms of our master in terms of our bulk variances uh these will be uh C2 uh C1 variances for the existing conditions we can't comply with uh it would be unreasonable to um try and to demolish the building in its entirety and try and relocate it uh we can't make the lot ofy wider we can't make the lot ofy bigger so they are C1 variances where a specific property condition uh limits us in our development uh the balance of our variances are C2 variances um where the benefits will outweigh the detriment and again it's the benefits under Poland B South South planfield it's the benefits of the entire project as opposed to uh substantially outweighing any of the detriments um the same positive criteria uh continue a g and I I'm not going to read them again um and again as it is an inherently beneficial use and improves an existing lock condition in terms of our negative criteria that relates to our variance um variances they will not present a substantial detriment um again impervious surface is being reduced um the parking space dimensions are traditional industry size the aisle location um enhances site circulation from one way in one way out throughout the site while keeping the driveway locations more or less in the same spot and re significantly reducing the overall driveways on the site I believe for much of almost the entire Vineyard Avenue Vineyard uh Road Frontage and the entire Johnstone Frontage you can literally pull on and off the throughout and we're taking that down to one driveway in that will be right turn only on Vineyard and a full movement driveway on Johnstone more than 100 feet from that intersection so we won't impede any any of that operation our light fixtures are supposed to be downward facing our parking lot Landscaping is dramatically improving a uh virtually Deo sight devoid of landscaping and our signage um are appropriate for a building it's 11,000 square ft I think that uh they'll be Tastefully done with the pin mounted or internally illuminated letters again it will be a very classic look and a very high quality architecture uh and again in terms of our uh our negative criteria is terms in terms of the master plan those uh those goals would continually be Advanced so for those reasons I believe the board is the ability to Grant the relief requested and with your questions does the board have any questions Mr tyina see none you left and speechless you left them speechless thank you okay all right Mr Arch uh thank you I uh during the break I did have an opportunity to speak with my client um given that there's only five members on the board currently and a devarian would require unanimous consent of all members of the board we would ask uh if we could uh carry this uh uh twofold uh so that we can provide a a transcript uh for additional members to be present uh to review and to possibly be present for a vote at a future date uh but also we would like to uh give J uh Mr Ray the opportunity to uh conduct some some further uh uh site uh reconnaissance uh to be able to uh uh answer uh Mr chabra questions uh in in a little bit more detail okay um so we would ask to adjourn at this point so given that I think you'd agree with me that we're not we will not go out to the public at this point because then we'll have to go out to the public twice uh I'm always fine with that with uh with limiting that okay right we don't we get paid the same amount either way so okay all right um Rachel how much time do you think you'll need you want to go to the second meeting can I do the C at riches during the NFL playoffs they're coming up January second meeting January second meeting yeah what's the date of that uh January 28th 2025 [Music] 28 you good with January 29th 2025 yes okay all right so for anyone here present or anyone listening at home this case will be carried until January 28th 2025 uh the meeting will be begin at 700 p.m. here in council chambers um if you are my apologies when is the earlier date in January just to we have a potential contractual deadline on the 22nd so we can potentially come back before that that might 21 January 21 21st 21st there we go it works with your professionals that works for our professionals yes okay thank you so you inter up me before I got to finish so anyone here present or anyone listening at home this case will be carried to January 21st 2025 the meeting will begin at 7 pm here in council chambers if you receive the notice uh this will serve as your notice that uh this case will be continued on Tuesday January 21st 2025 beginning at 7 pm uh thank you very much and have a good holiday happy New Year thank you have a good holiday everybody the board will take a f minute recess to let the next next case set up and board members your legs e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e board will return to session Madam Secretary next case on the agenda please case number z17 2022 Bola Oil Corporation at 386 route one applicant is seeking preliminary and final site plan approval and seeking bulk and use variances for a retail store with drive-through and fuel sales standards have not been met in accordance with the master plan existing fuel service station is not a permitted use in the RB zone max imperious coverage required is 40% proposed is 65% sidey yard setback required is 6 feet proposed to zero feet in the RB Zone affected property is located in the gbh and RB Zone designated as block number 240 Lot number 1.02 on the Edison Township tax map all noticing paperwork is in order thank you good even Mr Tel good evening Mr chairman members of the board Jason tuel attorney for the applicant um as was stated this is an application for 386 US Route 1 block 240 lot 1.02 um what I would say is the major reason we're at the Zoning Board of adjustment in connection with this application is that this property is split zoned so the large vast majority of the properties in The gbh District in which the gas with fueling is a principal permitted use however the rear portion of the site um however the map uh seemed to to lay out is within the residential district so that's a the vast majority of why we're before the board of adjustment the existing conditions on the site it's a gas station with a mechanic shop already uh there's no storm water management located on the property there's very limited Landscaping um I would say outdated lighting and the pavement in the site just pretty much needs to be updated and needs a facelift so my client is proposing on the site is to upgrade the property with a new gas canopy um taking down the mechanic shop and all the car storage on the property and to replace it with an approximately 2,000 ft² or a little under 2,000 sare ft convenience store uh what I wanted to also make the board aware is that when we initially filed the application and after going through various TRC meetings with the board's professionals we did eliminate the drive-thru so there is no drive-thru at all associated with this project now it is just the sea store at the at the site with the gas so in addition to adding the sea store building we'll be implementing new Landscaping new lighting there'll be storm water management um added to the site we're actually moving the portions of the property or the improvements that are within the residential Zone which even today are fairly limited further outside of the residential area and creating a large buffer between Landscaping fence and and just overall separation between the residential Zone um the Residential Properties and the um and the activity that's on the site we've had a chance to review the board professional letters we take no exception with them so obviously we'll go through that in testimony but we'll comply with all technical comments um set forth therein I just wanted to indicate some of the operational characteristics of the site before uh the before the board hears a testimony there would be five employees at a peak shift so that would be three for the convenience store and two for the gas um the fueling would be delivered as needed for the gas but up to once per day they get three to four blockx truck deliveries per week those deliveries only take place between 7:00 a.m. and 7 p.m. so no overnight deliveries um garbage pickup is approximately twice per week and again would occur during those Limited hours that not occurring in the overnight um period just also just some important facts as you're as you're listening to the testimony uh from the professionals that we're presenting um in terms of setbacks the application complies with the rear and side yards the front yard is currently non-conforming but we're not making it worse um the application complies with impervious coverage in fact this application reduces the impervious coverage on the property by adding more green space and we're well under on floor area ratio uh building coverage and the application does comply with the parking so again the the basis of the main reasons for the variances that we that we're seeking tonight are due to the fact that the lot happens to be split zone between the gbh and the residential Zone um I guess it's um to the east so I have three witnesses that I plan on calling Mr chairman uh we'll start with civil engineering we have our our traffic engineer uh would go second um and then our professional planner I provided all the notice um proofs of service and publication um to the board so unless you have any questions Mr chairman I'd ask your permission to call my first witness board have any questions Mr toel prior to proceeding Mr chairman chairman did you submit a police report and fire report you're good you received the copy of it I don't think I received the copy but I'll I'll I'll take a copy it was an older one from oh from from 2023 gotcha okay that's fine did you get that one so we do have it yes okay all right good okay all right so the first witness I'd like to call is our civil engineer Michaela Maguire s you raise your right hand please solemnly swear or affirm to tell the whole truth nothing but the truth so help you got um yeah see just yes I do state your full name for the record please thank you Michaela Maguire last name spelled m a UI e I'm a project manager at Stonefield engineering and design located at 92 Park AB in Rutherford New Jersey and if you could just please give the board a brief summary of your qualifications and background yes um so I'm a licensed engineer in the state of New Jersey my license is in good standing I received my Bachelor of Science and civil engineering from the University of Delaware I have over seven years experience in site civil engineering specifically in New Jersey and I've been accepted as an expert across multiple boards across the state okay we'll accept to you thank you all right great all right so Michaela why don't we get the board oriented to some of the existing conditions um on the property before we get into the proposal specifically some of the conditions that you feel are necessary to explaining why you designed the site in the way that you did okay so I'm going to start here with the aerial exhibit that our office put together it's dated December 17th 2024 and was this part of the submission it was not okay so this will be marked as a one yeah okay okay and we also we'll also need for our board secretary to be provided one of the smaller version to include with our file yeah we can email it or provide hard copies either way so the site itself is located at 386 US Route 1 North it's located at the corner of Route 1 and Russell Avenue the site is located at block 240 lot 1.02 2 the lot area is 33,785 properties to the north east and west are all located in that same gbh district kind of As you move along Route One and then the properties to the South and then some of the properties across Russell Avenue are also located in that RB District the site has two frontages one along Route one that's about 280 ft there's currently a right Ingress driveway and a right egress driveway along Route One that are we are proposing to maintain as part of this development there is also a frontage along Russell Avenue that is about 238 ft there is an existing driveway along Russell Avenue as well um and I do want to note that Russell Avenue is a oneway traveling in the direction towards Route One currently on site there is an existing sinoco gas station and a Repair Garage with Associated parking and a fueling canopy the fueling canopy has six pumps or or three pumps and six fueling positions and the building itself is 1,951 square feet as part of this application we are proposing to keep this existing building and renovate it however we are proposing to demolish the existing canopy and fueling pumps some other notable features as we're looking at the aial exhibit would be the lot um configuration or geometry the lot is a triangular lot and it does have two frontages which does impact when we look at the zoning of the property the site is also almost fully developed um the impervious coverage is about 68% with the building um and the parking areas as well there is some vegetation As you move along the southern portion of the lot that we are proposing again to maintain as part of this application for the storm water there no there is no infrastructure on site um most of the runoff today sheep blows to Route One Russell Avenue or the adjacent properties in general the site is in a little bit of disarray and not up to standards regarding lighting Ada accessibility EV parking storm water um which we are looking to improve as part of this application okay so those are some of the existing conditions of the site let's walk the board now through the proposal and we're going to be marking Council another exhibit so Michaela if you could just identify what that exhibit is for the record this is the site plan rendering exhibit it's essentially a colorized version of the site plan sheet that was submitted it was prepared by our office and dated December 12th 2024 and this is just the site plan that the board has with the Landscaping plan superimposed and colorized for demonstrative purposes correct okay and I'll mark this as A2 under proposed conditions we are proposing a fuel only service station with convenience store we are proposing to remove the Repair Garage as part of the existing use I do want to note that this use is permitted in the gbh zone which takes up most of the property however it is not permitted in the RB Zone which is why we are seeking a use variance and Michaela just and we probably did this a little just before but just point to the board where that RB Zone area is on the site so the zone line delineation cuts across from Russell almost parallel to this building and then ties in in the middle of the rear area here okay the building size is proposed to remain at 1,951 Square ft as well as the building height which is 20.1 Ft both are compliant with the gbh um Zone requirements in front of the existing building we are proposing a 4,000 ft fueling canopy with six t standard mpds and then two high speed diesel pumps I do want to note that the eight pumps are compliant with what the um Zone requires for fueling areas however we are seeking relief for the two high-speed diesel pumps on site the gas canopy itself is proposed at 20 ft High which again complies with the building height requirement of the zone the building itself is compliant with the front yard set back along Route One at 90.1 ft where 50 ft is required however we are seeking an existing non-conformity for the setback along Russell Avenue where the existing building is 26.1 Ft as mentioned we are meeting all of the side and rear yard requirements for the building for the canopy we are proposing to improve slightly the front yard relief along Route One the existing canopy was at 12.1 ft proposing the new canopy at 12.5 ft we are compliant with the setback along Russell Avenue as well as any of the any of the side and rear yard requirements and I do want to note with the addition of the canopy we are increasing the building coverage however we are still meeting any of the building coverage F or minimum gross floor area requirements in the zone so Michel just to be clear the building coverage permitted is 25% and we're only at 17.6% correct correct and the build itself is staying the same size that but you're counting the canopy as building coverage as part of your calculation correct okay as mentioned access is going to be provided via the existing Ingress and egress driveways along Route One um we did submit and receive a letter of no interest from the do to keep these driveways as is we are also proposing to modify the driveway along Russell Avenue um to tighten the curb opening to 26 6 ft which does comply with the town code um the benefits here is we're pulling this driveway away from the intersection to improve circulation we're also giving more room on site for landscaping um perious coverage and headlight screening we're proposing 14 parking spaces on site 10 of them are to the east of the building and the other four are closer to the intersection based off of the employee count 12 parking spaces are required on site we're proposing in 14 so we are compliant we're also proposing to make ready EV spaces per the New Jersey code and you'll be complying with Ada parking as well Michaela correct to the east of the building we are proposing one ban accessible Ada space as well as improving the sidewalk and ramp into the building to make sure we have an accessible path into and out of the building all right can you describe the loading area and the operations for the loading yes to the West of the building we are proposing um a 12T by 30t loading area I do want to note that the existing site does not have a designated loading zone um so we are improving the circulation by having an area this this truck or van could pull into delivery wise um we do anticipate box trucks or Vans once a day and that would happen on off peak hours for the fueling deliveries I know that was mentioned as well but we do anticipate that up to once a day and as well as at on off peak hours all right Michael can you just describe where the trash enclosure is located on the site yes the trash enclosure is located along Russell Avenue to the north of the loading area um we do anticipate a private hauler about two times a week that will come at off peak hours I do want to note that we are providing a landscape screening behind the trash enclosure to buffer from Russ Russell Avenue all right and the trash enclosure will be party and it'll it'll match the building or be something decorative correct correct we do have a rendering that I'll pull up that'll show that the trash en closure does match the facade of the building okay looking at the site as a whole I know this was mentioned but we are decreasing the impervious coverage on site by about 4% existing coverage is 68% and we're proposing it at 64% I do want to note that within this residential Zone that is to the southern corner of the property we're only proposing a 12% impervious coverage in that zone which just emphasizes how much we are leaving that area for landscaping and buffering and are you decreasing the amount of I'll call it improvements in that area versus what's out there today correct okay we are pulling the proposed parking area that's to the left of the building away from that residential buffer to now propose a 20ft setback where the residential buffer requirement is 17.55 Ft in addition we're proposing an 8ft solid fence around the the East Southern and then Western portion of the building it's kind of hugging the parking area of the building and then ties into the trash enclosure in addition we're proposing an increasing landscape buffer in that area which I'll talk to once I get to the Landscaping okay and also the trash enclosure will also be buffered as well with Landscaping correct okay we're proposing to keep but reface and realign the existing freestanding sign that's at the corner of Route One and Russell Avenue um the existing sign is 3.8 ft from the roadway where the requirement is is sorry the existing sign is 13.8 ft from the roadway where the requirement is 15 ft so we are seeking an existing non-conformity for the setback of that sign as well as the size where the existing s sign that we're proposing to reface is 134 Square ft the existing height of the sign is 21.7 where the permitted height is 20 ft so we are slightly over that existing sign height as well under existing conditions we are also proposing two wall mounted signs as well as two signs along the canopy for the building we're proposing two signs one of bowler Bola lettering and then another one that has a Tim Horton sign both are on the front facade of the building facing route one and both meet the requirements um within the town code and then along the canopy which I will bring up this rendering to explain those all right so let's mark that as A3 just identify Michaela for the record please sorry this was a rendering prepared by our office dated we can date it today December 17th 2024 and I'll mark this A3 [Music] so as mentioned we're also proposing two canopy signs one along the frontage of Route One and another one on the side um of the canopy again both signs comply with the area requirement as well as the location requirements all right so just to be clear on signage the building signs and the canopy signs all comply correct correct the freestanding sign that we're reutilizing um is has some pre-existing non-conformities that we're not making any worse correct okay regarding the facade itself we are maintaining the pitch roof in the building to keep more of a residential character of the building the three existing Bays will be replaced with glass some of it tinted including the main um entrance door that's facing Route One we're maintaining or reposing the red brick that was from the existing building and then we're also o proposing a cream colored stucco um at the pitch of the building behind the bow ass sign I'm going to pull up the architectural plans that were included in this submission so this does not need to be marked that's okay just just reference the sheet that you're that you're speaking to Mel yep it's A3 okay so the main entrance of the building is facing route one as you enter the building um you get into the main sales and convenience area page left of this would be where the food preparation happens straight in or page North would be where the freezers are and then page right would be where the cashier and utility rooms are there are two proposed restrooms that are accessed from the outside of the building adjacent to the Ada accessible space there are also utility meters as well as HVAC units in the rear that are buffered by that 8ft fence that we have surrounding the building all right and just to be clear inside the building itself just like a typical convenience store there's no cooking no frying nothing like that just a warmer and the sale of goods and um some cooler items correct correct okay all right you want to speak to storm water management yes so as mentioned we are red reducing the impervious coverage on site so we're naturally improving the storm water that is leaving the site um we are in minor development because we are disturbing less than an acre and we are not increasing the motor vehicle Surface by more than 0.25 Acres the site itself currently is sheet flowing runoff to Route One Russell as well as the neighboring residential areas so what we needed to do was analyze each of these areas separately and confirm we're reducing the flow to each area under proposed conditions we are proposing infrastructure to collect the runoff from the roof the canopy and the parking facility send it into an underground storm water system and slowly discharge it into route one so we are decreasing the flows that go to Route One by the underground detention system and then naturally decreasing the flows to the other two drainage areas all meeting the njd um standards so as a result of that will that not only benefit the subject property but the surrounding properties as well correct okay regarding the utilities we are proposing to maintain all utilities um as we are just renovating the building um we do agree to confirm all the existing utilities are in good condition or CCTV as needed um before reutilization all of the proposed lights on site are proposed to be led downward facing fixtures they're all proposed as dark sky compliant um and they're designed to provide safe vehicular and pedestrian access we are proposing four area lights on site all are shielded we're also proposing four wall packs and then nine canopy fixtures any of the area lights or wall packs are facing the parking areas they are not facing um the residential zones and I do want to note that the light levels along the residential property line are 0.1 or zero along all of those properties we are seeking relief for the light pole that's within the residential buffer um for the height and setback but we do agree to work with the engineer to find um potentially a different location for that light whether it's one of the islands to pull it out of that and or meet the 12T height requirement yeah just just to be clear on that when we were preparing for the application we noticed that one of the light poles violated that 25 foot um setback requirement to the residential lot line and Michaela you think you can easily move it out of there to comply with the requirement correct yes okay we are seeking really for a couple of the lighting um minimums and maximums I do want to note that this is because of the use under the gas canopy um typically with this use you want those light levels to be a little bit brighter than a typical parking lot and that's really for Safety and Security measures regarding the Landscaping we are proposing a mix of deciduous ornamental and Evergreen treeses along with shrubs all surrounding the property there is an existing um Landscaping buffer in between the use and the Residential Properties to the South there's about five mature trees that we are looking to maintain as part of this application I do want to note that that is causing us to seek relief for the Landscaping in this area part of the requirement is to add a 6ft burm in between this development and the residential property however if we added the 6ot burn we would have to demolish the five U mature trees along this area which we would like to maintain for the buffer instead of removing these trees we are proposing to infill this area with a series of um smaller evergreen shrubs or evergreen trees where we can fit them um and trees that will live under the decious trees that are currently there mature and and fairly large and and those sorry M and those trees would be behind the fence that we're proposing as well so the fence would go before the Landscaping that you have between the residential property line and our site correct all the proposed trees are behind the 8ft solid vence okay aside from that area we are proposing a mix of ornamental trees um and Evergreen Hedges surrounding the parking areas for headlight screening as well as screening of the trash enclosure the total plant count on site is 55 plants that consists of 30 shrubs and 25 trees I do want to note that we are meeting the tree replacement requirement where Seven Trees are required and we are proposing 12 um to comply with that replacement calc we are seeking relief for the street trees along Route One um I do want to note that is that is because of the existing driveways as well as the landscape islands along Ong that Frontage um it essentially is pavement along the frontage until you get to the corner but we are trying to infill um the remainder of the Landscaping areas along Russell um with those trees and we are meeting the street tree requirement along Russell Avenue as well so in your professional opinion has the Landscaping become more robust along the residential property lines and along russle as well significantly yes okay I do want to note we are seeking relief also for the parking lot tree requirement um 16 trees are required we are proposing with existing and propos a total of seven um but again we are meeting the the tree replacement requirement and we are meeting the impervious coverage on site um we are just trying to maintain those existing trees in the rear um for the Landscaping and in your opinion for this site is putting are putting placing the trees around the perimeter a better alternative from a site design standpoint yes with that being said I do want to note we did review the DNR review letter dated October 17 2024 um we have no issue complying with any of the civil engineering comments within there Mr Carly I think m m Miss Maguire's testimony was comprehensive and uh with her uh testimony that uh they would uh update the plan revise the plan to meet those comments they remaining comments it's really the second review I name it first review because uh when the application was made in 2022 it has uh uh undergone significant uh revisions so it's essentially a a new site layout and that's reflected by the report but uh as uh I think Miss Maguire's given the board a a pretty good idea of uh what's being proposed uh actually a very good idea uh the applicant has work to do with do uh but they know that and other agencies and uh you know with our local you have an old uh Fire Marshall report uh we'd look for you to update that for the current layout that's fine we can do that should be uh less complicated than the previous one because site circulation is certainly less complicated in 2024 than it was in 20 proposed in 2022 uh with the subtraction of the drivethru around the back I really don't have anything of moment to offer to the board Mr uh chair okay thank you Mr Cary Mr chairman that's all I have for M Maguire we're happy to answer any questions M McGuire would you like to go through the big planning report please we also had the chance to review that report dated December 16th 2024 um and we have no issues or comments we cannot comply with Mr BR now I would just like uh to address some of the stuff on the record we asked for uh any kind of waivers are you seeking any waivers uh with this application from from checklist no I think we we were deemed complete so I think we're good there okay the um the high flow diesel pumps um we call that as a variant so you having high flow diesel pumps on site two of the pumps would be high flow and we'll have our Traffic Engineers speak to that yes okay um how about any kind of like generators yeah I I'm I'm sorry Mr BAU we should have addressed that that's acceptable we can put it we can add a generator uh to work with your office and if you if you feel one should be placed there that's fine what type of security measures do you have with the facility because you're open 24 hours a day right yeah so the applicant has um obviously employees um on site um as well as a security camera system alarm system and as most um convenience stores do and we can go through them if you'd like they you know the front door always has the camera there there's a certain amount of cash that's on site after they get to that certain amount of cash cash they deposit it um there's an alarm that goes to the police department the applicant is more than happy to work with the police department on security as well that's no issue and you'll you'll Supply a compliant tree uh plan right yeah Michaela we can do that I know you you said that it's compliant but I have some issues with um with some of the the parking lot stuff and everything so we can get the to look at that site plan again that'd be fine yeah if the board were to approve it we would be happy to work out the Landscaping details with you as a condition that's fine and how about the irrigation system you know irrigate the landscape areas so they're protected and they grow I'm assuming you're going to require that so then the answer would be yes okay we're in good shape then no outside storage of material sometimes you start pack stacking like firewood and you know um windsh wiper flu if that's not if that's not permitted by ordinance we won't do it so no outside storage that would be a condition of approval is that good i' have I is that not permitted by ordinance I'm just I'm just curious we don't we don't want it to happen so if you're seeking an approval we're I'll ask I'll I'll confirm with the client I don't think it's an issue but that's something I would confirm with the client and does it require uh require any kind of lock consolidation with the property we'd ask you to do that as well yeah it does not I think it's it's one lot correct Michaela correct it is already Consolidated yeah it's just one lot right now so we're fine there thank you Mr chairman thank you Mr M uh does the board have any questions for M mcar Mr chairman uh the current use is uh you have three gasoline tank the current use is gasoline and diesel or just gasoline right now there's just regular gasoline there's no there's no there's lowf flow diesel I believe but there's no highspeed diesel correct so all so you have three tanks now currently you have three tanks I believe a 30,000 gon tanks I I don't know how what the what the tank size Micha do you know what the tank size is are now I don't do we do we know the life of the tank how old are the tank they are new tanks fiberglass tanks so the the new tanks would comply with all the newest requirements as you're probably insinuating and the amount of pumps that we'd be we'd have as Michaela indicated would comply with the ordinance so your ordinance permits us to have eight pumps here what it doesn't permit is that two of the eight pumps are the highspeed diesel Mr chairman Mr B if I could add to that um the reason why I asked a question is is because uh truckers will not go on a property with low flow diesel it take forever to fill their tank so they want to stop in the gas stations that are with a high flow the problem I have with that is are they where do they stack because I've seen them stack on the highway when they can't get into the into the gas station so hopefully your traffic I will talk about that we'll have our traffic engineer address be backing up traffic on the on the highway thank you Mr chairman thank you m so you're not replacing any of the gasoline tanks or diesel tanks oh yeah yeah they they would all be taken out and restored as you indicated with the new fiber wall I'm I'm probably not stating it correctly but the most modern upto-date up to code um tanks that are required yes it is going to be installed or did they already been installed now are you changing the tanks or we are not changing the tanks we'd be changing we'd be changing the tanks I believe yes yeah there' be brand new tanks okay so if there's any environmental issue leaking tanks you would take care of 100% environmental issues get D clearance yeah it would actually present a good opportunity to actually bring the site into further compliance with all environmental regulation okay so you're fully renovating the whole service gas station including tanks the uh all the pumps and distribution and everything correct including new canop be only the current existing building you're just converting that into a convenience store convenience store correct all right thank you thank you Mr chair thank Mr D any other questions Mr McGuire see n thank you very much thank you m our next witness Mr chairman is our traffic engineer John cor with Stonefield engineering and design swear orir to sell the whole truth nothing but the truth so help you got I do it's John korak last name spelled c o r a k do you want me to go through uh his qualifications no I'll do that okay thank you Mr CRA you please provide the board with a brief summary of your background and qualifications of course um licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey my license is current in good standing have a Bachelor of Science in civil engineering from the College of New Jersey an expert in the field of traffic and transportation engineering prepared over 200 traffic studies for Land Development applications uh I've Ed before this board and over 100 other boards within the state as a traffic expert licens are current in good standing yes great we'll accept you may proceed great thank you all right so John you prepared a report in connection with this application correct all right if you could address trip generation parking on-site circulation and obviously the impact or not or lack thereof of the high-speed diesel um pumps that we're proposing of course so um you know with any traffic study application uh you know that we're conducting a reviewing course begins with a review of the on-site um characteristics and features review the surrounding roadway Network um here where we are converting a part of the site or changing a part of the site with the the fueling aspect being completely uh realigned and and renovated but keeping that existing building where it is that provides that natural buffer to the residents is in the rear um you know I think th those existing features are important as it relates as well to the tra components of the site um currently you have those three pumps six vehicle fueling positions all of which are gasoline just to clarify there's there's no lowf flow diesel on the site today I just want to make sure that that part's clear for the record um were the three service Bays previously in operation uh and the driveway access with that one uh right in driveway on Route One one right out driveway on Route One and then a wide curb cut on uh on Russell Avenue uh Route One itself the fronting roadway car IES in this stretch about 880,000 cars per day two-way travel volume so a very high uh traveled Highway one of the busiest in the state of course uh has three lanes in each Direction and a 50 mph speed limit Russell Avenue uh smaller oneway residential street um it is signed at the beginning of of Russell for no trucks and and this development this project even with high flow diesel is not going to attract truck volumes to Russell Avenue it has a 25 mph speed limit as well um so as part of the project um removing that existing service station putting in a more modern canopy with a little bit more modern design where we're able to um stack more vehicles in line create better queuing conditions for U you know as compared to the existing condition with six um fueling pumps for 12 vehicle fueling positions related to gasoline and then there are the two um High flow diesel pumps which uh can serve uh you know your larger trucks as well as your sport diesel type vehicles um on and off the site we've reviewed the existing traffic traveling to and from uh the subject property we've actually done counts at the driveways during the peak periods and those volumes that we've counted line up nearly identically with what would be projected by The Institute of Transportation Engineers trip generation manual so that's the you know that's the main data source that Traffic Engineers utilize that dot utilizes and uh you know having an as you know a working facility an operating facility that is doing business um we can compare essentially the actual traffic coming in out of the site versus what the it would project and those numbers are nearly spoton in the future condition because we are a gas station largely capturing from Route One um you know adding that convenience store element is not something that's going to exacerbate or increase traffic on Route One or on Russell Avenue by any significant measure it is just going to continue to pull traffic volumes mostly from Route One mostly from those 80,000 cars per day are really the 40,000 that are going past our site on Route One North um in and out of the site and they continue on their way without any real impact to the total volume that we experience on that Highway um through the peak hours and throughout the day itself um because of that because of that limited traffic increase would not forecast any sort of adverse level of service impact related from this development as it relates to increased traffic now as it relates to adding the Diesel Service we're in the same boat here so we are adding high flow diesel to the site and this is less so of an attraction for truck drivers to entice them or to encourage them to come on to the site but what it is is these types of fueling stations on small Parcels they do occasionally have truck traffic go onto the site and so as opposed to a trucker coming onto the site say I need my diesel anyway I'm going to use the lowf flow pumps and spend 15 30 minutes on the site getting uh you know Diesel Service we're able to fuel them efficiently fuel them quickly and have them on their way about the same time frame that a passenger vehicle vcle would fuel their car so it's more so um a a a convenience a convenient way to get trucks on and off the site without large delays without queuing backups um you know onto the state highway or further back into the site um we've also had the opportunity to review some other sites that are uh by this operator that do have this high-speed diesel component to it and the truck volumes the total gas sold of diesel it's very low what we're looking at generally is about three what would equate to is about three tractor trailers over the course of a day so it's a very low number you're not going to see that kind of backup um you know onto the state highway you're looking at a very very low amount of truck traffic coming on and off the site itself and just to be clear John too there isn't a separate truck fueling area like truck stops would have there's no um area for trucker to stop or to or to sleep or to or to just take a break from their typical day correct correct you have you have no separate truck canopy you have no showers you have no scales you have no sit down restaurant um you really don't have any of those amenities that that lure tractor trailers you have no Fleet contracts for example that that's a common thing with call it the major truck stop players the pilots and the Flying Js right the these tractor trailer companies have Fleet contracts where the truckers um you know specifically seek out these um these truck stops for their refueling for their services that's not something that's being offered as part of this project Mr chairman Mr B if that's the case don't why you need high-speed diesel pumps if you're not going to service them yes how many and I also have a followup question how many U tractor trailers can you stack on that property if they stop and get gas or get get fuel yeah so the reason for the high-speed diesel is to essentially be able to to move the trucks on and off of the site at a quick rate they still have to they still have to go onto the property how many can you stack at one time yeah so at one time what I can fit on the property just just indicate what exhibit you're referring to John yeah I'm on exhibit A2 which is the uh the site plan rendering exhibit um at one time I could fuel um essentially three trailers um under the Under The Canopy area and then as we work back toward Route One cu accommodate an additional two tractor trailer so I could fit five trucks on the site where I'm looking at three trucks over the course of an entire day it's not something where we're going to see backups onto Route One for a development like this okay so in your professional opinion you don't view queing as an issue or as a concern for the way that the property is oriented and the projected amount of tractor trailers that are for that have seen for this site no not at all all right can you speak to the parking on on the property yeah of course so we do have 14 parking hang on one second before you go not to lose my thought okay how many pumps do you have you have only two diesel pumps you really can't stack three in three aisles if that's the case well let me so to answer so Hank just to answer your question John if there were to his to Hank's point if there were two tractor trailers fueling at the same time and a third one came onto the property could the third one leave the site if the two trucks if the two other trucks areas were taken up yes it could will it block the entrance for vehicles getting on if there's like say two tractor trailers and another one comes on right behind one is there enough room for cars and still still maneuver the property that's my because I've seen this on on um on Route One on numerous occasions where everybody says it it doesn't happen it does happen and so I'm a little concerned with that that's all no so there's there's ample depth behind the canopy and that's part of the the reason the location of the canopy we're trying to space it further from that existing driveway Where You Are able to accommodate a tractor trailer or a box truck or whatever you know diesel truck might BL the entrance if they're stacked correct we do have that that wide entrance here that does allow for the vehicle to to get around okay thank you and before you continue on the parking I just wanted to address two items that came up during Miss Maguire's testimony that I confirmed with the client we're okay with the condition you indicated about outdoor storage and sales so that that's a condition the client is okay with it and then to answer the question all the tanks will be replaced with the new double wall fiberglass uhi uh tanks so all the tanks will be replaced okay go John I'm sorry hey great so on on site itself 14 parking spaces where 12 are required um you know this is a small convenience store outfit where uh you know you don't have that that high demand of parking like you see at a at a Ware Quick Check application this is um one it's compliant parking Supply but two uh you know the rapid turnover for those parked vehicles uh very comfortable with the parking Supply that's provided on the site itself um additionally beyond that just want to touch on NJ doot permitting uh we had previously requested and received a letter of no interest from the NJ do that was for the configuration with the drive-thru and so the removal of that drive-thru um certainly is not going to have any uh increased traffic impact it would like actually improve what was being proposed back in 2022 should the board require us to uh seek a new letter of no interest with the you know exact uh you know exact approved plan if you will we'd be happy to do so and and you know see no uh there no reason why NJ doot would deny that letter of no interest uh and with that I think that largely concludes the direct testimony um Jason unless you have any any further questions no that's all I have does the board have any questions Mr chairman chairman so your testimony is there's going to be you're going to three trucks per day correct based on what we've experienced at um other sites operated by this applicant on major State highways the the truck high-speed diesel is not something that attracts a wealth of um you know tractor trailer trips to and from the site so what what it amounts to based on the the gallonage sold it amounts to three tractor trailers that could be you know 10 to 12 box trucks uh instead uh it could be a greater number of of sport diesel cars but just based on the gallonage that would be um sort of your expected peak of tractor trailers over the course of one day yeah based on we knew that this was a variance that the board you know obviously would have to consider and the our client has several locations that have this highspeed Diesel and John the the areas that we looked at the location that we looked at had a was on a similar Highway with similar volumes correct yeah so so the locations that we've reviewed they're on Route 17 up near uh Maan Ramsey area um Route 17 of that area carries about 100,000 vehicles per day it's a similarly similarly intense roadway a little bit more volume um but but sense in terms of truck traffic as well it's a main connector of Bergen County up to the the New York State throughway um it it's very much uh know as similar of a corridor or similar of a location as you could get to to Route One um in this part of the state can I ask you a question Mr you said three trucks and then you mentioned 12 trucks I'm not I'm not clear on that so we're the the numbers that we are able to to make this determination on it's based on gallons of diesel fuel sold and so a tractor trailer you know ful length 53t trailer tractor trailer has a larger fuel tank um normally it's it's two tanks ranging between 120 to 150 gallons a tank on a box truck that might just be a single 60 gallon tank so when we're looking at the number of trucks that are coming to and from the site a you know that larger tractor trailer size up to three per day or if we if we think that they're all box trucks for example about 10 to 12 per day so it it's it's essentially a gallonage uh calculation that we're looking back into okay what number of trucks meet that gallonage thank you m yeah I had the same question it's only two or three trucks why you have one full 30,000 gallon tongue dedicated just for the diesel two pumps lot of real estate just for the three trucks a day right so so again that's that's based on the variety of diesel vehicles that are I know on the market whether it's the the tractor trailers box trucks sport diesel vehicles your your landscape trucks larger pickups uh and the like it's a business decision I can't all right Mr chairman that's it Mr cber um yes I have a question so currently on the existing property how many gasoline pumps are there so there are three pumps that create six positions six positions and out of which two are diesel there are no there's no diesel on the site today there's no Diesel and now you're going to have how many total pumps so there will be eight total pumps so 16 Bays not quite because essentially just location and the stacking of the pumps okay you could not have all eight occupied at once okay so you could likely have up to 12 Vehicles 12 12 cars on the site at one time so out of the eight pumps you know you you have some pumps that are double-sided Etc how many total can you fill up all at once including all vehicles not trucks cars just total so total Under The Canopy at once I could be simultaneously fueling 12 Vehicles 12 vehicles and out of which two are high flow diesel I mean aren't we like introduce call introducing a conflict now with the diesel I feel like and we're inviting the diesel so I feel like if the current property doesn't have the diesel um to my point um in my opinion I feel like we're introducing that conflict well the diesel could be implemented regardless of um you know that specific use requirement it's the low flow vers high flow distinction exactly right and how tall is the canopy the canopy it's say it's a minimum 15 F 15 feet uh six in I think we provided a testimony on that Michaela do you just want to confirm the height of the canopy just yeah sure yeah sure it's 20t tall okay okay yeah cuz my one of my main concerns it's not just tractor trailers it's going to be car haulers it's going to be a variety of different trucks you know even pickup trucks that are diesel that are Towing in the back and such yeah makes sense just want to point out that your your minimum clearance at a traffic light for example is 15 feet six inches to the bottom of that traffic light no I'm not talking about the clearance I'm not talking about the elevation I'm talking about the use of the high flow pumps the Diesels so yeah the I'm relating the I'm relating the clearance Under The Canopy to to what you would drive on On Any Given Road Mr chairman M um when the amount of trucks entering the property buying diesel be a byproduct of the price of the diesel like the lower the price you'd probably get more demand so Mr B this you're you're you're kind of laying the appetizer into my questioning because so several years ago when gas prices were high this gas station had very very good prices and I remember there was was a backup on Route One for people coming into the place because their price was so good at the time and that was just you know regular gasoline for vehicles and and it's just that fact is just kind of laying in my head that you're if you're going to have two trucks filling up high flow and then another truck queuing how's traffic flow going to be through there and I I really need to see it understood I I think that one of the components here with the convenience store aspect is that there is a draw for the operator to make sure that that convenience store is open accessible easy to get to because quite frankly a lot of times that the profit driven from these types of of developments more so in the convenience store side than it is in the fueling side and so having backups on Route One encumbers that ability to actually get to the site circulate and and make convenience store purchases when you say Mr chairman that you want to see it do you mean by way of a queuing exhibit or yes I'd like to see a circulation exhibit okay so yes John the the exhibits we showed just were that the that those size Vehicles can navigate the site we didn't provide like a a q exhibit of of of trucks correct yeah yeah right right now what I have um basically shows that the trucks can circulate the site into each of the um you know different fueling areas so so what you're asking Mr chairman is is something that shows you know two two tractor trailers back to back and how that would impact the point of access correct and then if there you know if a regular um passenger vehicle wants to enter the site so as to as to fuel up or go get a cup of coffee they can do so safely right that's to Mr Bell's question which was would there still be room for them to go that's what you want to see okay correct all right that's fine correct and Mr chair uh while Mr and the team are working on that they should be cognizant of the truck turn exhibit that they uh have provided T1 and that shows a a WB 50 or so uh coming onto the site and leaving the site uh extensi it shows a fuel truck servicing the site but it doesn't seem to afford adequate horizontal clearances for the easier or efficient use of those pumps for uh larger trucks so uh be cognizant of that uh because it's a your exhibit it's T1 you provided it uh be cognizant of that uh as you prepare that future exhibit okay thank you um and then the next question I had so the police report and and Mr corak I'm not sure it's for you or for you Mr tual but the police report from October 26 2023 correct me if I'm wrong but at that point you were proposing the drive-thru and that was a little different so um if you could request um an update on that and then if you do not if you can request an updated uh Fire review sure I can work with with with Rachel and Mr Bell to get that that's that would be great that'd be great thank you okay does the board have any other questions Mr corak okay all right thank you very much Mr chairman can I ask a question to the board um since we do have to do some homework on the traffic items and I'd like the planning testimony to go after all the rest of the case is in would it be okay if we adjourn um now I'm seeing I'm not going to get much resistance on that Mr Cher has to drive to Buffalo tonight so we're not going to argue with you on this one okay so could we pick a date would that be okay sure absolutely Madam Secretary how much time would you guys estimate that you let's start there also let me check can we take two minutes so I can check everybody's availability sure no we didn't Mr chairman Mr chairman what you think gave it is the 20 I'm sorry from uh your last application my understanding is you have the 21st and the 28th of January that's Madam Secor we can offer you the 28th yeah the 28th is perfect that that that works okay all right sir I know you wanted to speak we have not gone out to the public portion yet so we're we're limited to for when you could speak is only when we go out to the public I apologize um okay so you're good yes all right okay so for anyone here present and for anyone listening at home this case will uh resume on January 28 2025 uh the meeting beginning at 7 pm here in council chambers uh and uh if you received the notice you will not receive a new notice this will serve as your notice thank you thank you Mr ch um mam secretary any other business to come before the board that'll be all this evening all right uh can I get before we for a motion to adjourn I just wanted to thank the board members uh and thank the public and thank Professionals for everybody for uh everything this evening uh I want to wish everyone a very very happy and healthy holiday season and happy New Year uh looking forward to being back in 2025 and thank you all for a great year uh I really appreciate our board professionals and our our uh Municipal staff and of course my colleagues on the board for uh their tireless dedication to this board I really appreciate you uh can I get a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn second motion made by Mr sedada second by Mr Cher all in favor signified by saying I I oose nay the eyes have it Bo stands J and happy New Year Merry Christmas Merry Christmas enjoy it