##VIDEO ID:5-9bhz8gQdg## ver the hi great upright and above room temperature e not right can good afternoon welcome to the special meeting of the scambia county TDC today is September 9th and  it is approximately 3:03 p.m. um Danielle was this meeting properly advertised yes in the sun press  on September 5th great thank you uh would you please call the role Jeff BOS here James Reeves  here Mary Hawking Shirley cronley here David Bearer here Ronald Rivera here matish Patel here  tin Yad Bron Casey Jones great we do have a quorum so uh this meeting is now called to order thank  you um at this time we will take public uh we'll do public forum uh take public comment for anyone  who wishes to speak uh about anything tourism related except for the agenda items if you're here  to speak to any one of the agenda items we'll take the public comments during that time uh and if you  do wish to speak at all whether now or during the agenda items please fill out one of the speaker  request forms um are they up at the table they're at the table over here the media table is there  anyone here from the general public who would like to speak today to anything tourism related please  please introduce yourself um good afternoon and thank you all my name is James Simpkins and I'm  representing the Pensacola yach club and our not for-profit foundation and I would like to  bring before for uh the board uh an idea that we are trying to present which is to recognize  Pensacola's own American magic team which is now competing in Spain uh that competition will wrap  up at the end of this calendar year and this is putting Pensacola on the map for international  standing activities as you already know this is a great economic shot in the arm bringing some  high-tech and uh very internationally noticeable people to this town and we want to with our  Foundation provide a event to welcome them back to Pensacola and start their Journey with us this  is planned to be a open event to the public and we are seeking to host this on our grounds and  we've already started coordinating with the the mayor Reeves and the city and we are looking at  possible timing in January to February they have to pack up from Spain and load everything on a  ship and get back but when that happens we want to give them a good warm Pensacola welcome so  we are seeking future uh board support for that initiative great thank you so much appreciate it  is there anyone else here from the public who'd like to speak today all right seeing none we will  uh move on to our business items um we have three agenda items today the bay center and  Ashton Brenham indoor park uh Sports facility discussion the um pensacon request we also have  the SS United States uh was not on our published agenda but after the County Commission uh moved  last week to approve the funding uh portion of the funding uh it has come back to our as an  add-on to the agenda today um and Mr chairman yes sir can we take them in reverse order I  was going to take um that's my next comment was I'd like to take pensacon first uh and then the  SS United States second and then the basee center Ashton Bingham Park the third ex yes ma'am yes ma'am can you speak into the mic I can't hear you I'm the only Council representative here  and we have a meeting a coun agenda review at 3:30 yes ma'am so um because of the scheduling  conflict I wouldn't be able to come if they moved the item last move which item last the um the one  you all just mentioned Bas Center you want to move at last no no I'm saying I wouldn't be I  wouldn't be able to still be here the reason I was trying to move it to the last was because we  had these other two items at our last meeting and because we our discussion on on that bay  center ran long we did not have the opportunity to discuss those other and I I think those two  it items will be a lot faster than the last item and so I wanted to move those forward okay well  just know that if you move it then there will be no City representative present okay thank you does anyone else object to the reordering of the agenda I do too I think City representative  should be in the room for a $90 million discussion but that's just my point of view Madame councilwoman how how long will you be able to stay for this discussion I can't hear you so for another 22 minutes will you turn your microphone on please I said I'm choosing to be  late to the city council meeting so I can be present for this discussion okay well in light of that request we will keep the base Center Ashton Bingham Indoor Sports  facility first uh are there any speakers here uh I don't have any signature I mean  speaker request forms for this item you did fill one out we come on up Ted will you give those to Danielle please thank you introduce yourself please sir uh Ted ENT 15 North Sunset Gulf Breeze um so on the the  agenda item that we're discussing currently the study that was provided to me says that this for  this project to be successful there should be stakeholder support I want to quote from the  study that was provided to me by the consultant from the stakeholder political support section  destinations that are successful have political support from a variety of public and private  stakeholders that prioritize Sports tourism as an economic generator these include local and state  governments local leagues Collegiate athletic departments dmos Economic Development agencies  hospitality industry professionals facility management and event organizers I want to go on  the record by saying most of these stakeholders were not consulted before this study came out  two days prior to the last TDC meeting in fact to my knowledge no current hotel years or our local  DMO or anyone else who generates TDC money was consulted in any way about the proposal of the  current location after the study was completed you guys were told that hoteliers supported an  indoor sports center and that is true without a doubt however the hoteliers that I've spoken to  including myself who represents in free hotels does not does not support the current location  um the study indicates that we are going to spend $4 million in tax money every year to service the  bond to generate just $1.1 million in additional local tax revenue Vue in after the year that we've  we have uh stabilized the project to me that is just not a good investment and that's just  a guesstimate because to dat we haven't done any official business plan to support locating  an indoor sports facility at the Ashton Brenham Center in fact there was a previous study that  was done where the locations were identified and the first location was approximate to down  downtown and the second location I believe was W Street the old soccer fields so one of the  things I would ask you and I know several people on this board are business people for those kind  of returns would you invest your own money in a project like this because I can tell you I for one wouldn't this project and its magnitude needs to serve multi-purposes an investment like this in  a community our size putting a bond restriction on that much tdt money is a generational thing  for us this is going to happen one time for the next 30 Years once we make this decision  we don't get to come back and take another bite at this apple in fact most of us will long beone  before this scent ever comes back around again to be rebonded we have always believed that a  multipurpose Center that could do indoor sports as well as meeting and conventions and also Leverage  The existing value of the base Center which we all agree is an amazing structure that survived  multiple hurricanes through the test of time and obviously needs a significant investment to go  forward is the right path forward for us to do this the county has now shown us that they have  an appetite to have a real discussion about how we're going to invest our future tdt money and  all the stakeholders ask is they get a chance to currently evaluate this study as well as future  studies to make sure we make a decision so that we don't bond something away that we can't come  back to at a later date y'all the one thing I've learned about being a developer in 35 years is you  don't pick a spot just because it's the easiest spot to get something done you pick the spot where  you think you're going to get the highest return on your investment none of the documents that have  been provided publicly to me about this investment indicate that this is the highest and best use for  us as a community as such I respectfully request that the TDC vote no on the proposed project  and allow the stakeholders locally to work with the presenters of this development to  develop a project that best serves the entire Community thank you thank you Ted uh next speaker is Sharon goar gobert I apologize if I butchered that got correct thank  you thank you please introduce yourself Sharon Gober I'm a District 5 representative um former  lium Elementary School parent and a taxpayer and may I interrupt real quick I forgot to say  earlier please limit your comments to to three minutes gotcha I need to set a timer um here is  a 12E skate parent in Greater pensaco Figure Skating club board member I represent almost  300 figure skaters of all abilities ages two and a half to adult in spite of our sporadic seasonal  ice access Pensacola has a very successful and vibrant Sports Ice Sports Community consisting of  well over 500 figure skating youth hockey and Adult Hockey participants combined the amateur  ice sports program occupies the base Center Ice weekdays from 3:00 in the afternoon until almost  midnight plus some weekends except when there's an event or conversion we rent 99% of the ice  time that is offered to us generating in excess of an estimated $150,000 in Revenue to the Bas Center  each season this figure does not include revenues generated by public holiday and after game  skates which are frequently sold out in advance our programs have no room to grow our weight our  figure skating program has weight list for all of our beginner classes and our newest programs for  adaptive and special Olympic skating at capacity The Adult Hockey closed out their registration  within 15 minutes last season and had a wait list of almost 100 which never clears in the past our  youth hockey has had one to twoe wait lists for a place on a team we also have an organization  that wishes to start an ice Warriors hockey team for disabled veterans currently those interested  players are traveling to Dallas as there's no ice available for them our Ice Sports families  frequently allow uh travel to allow our kids to have ice access pelum Jacksonville Florida and  Columbus Georgia are the r rinks we most often frequent youth hockey uses these places as their  home rink for training hosting tournaments and friendlies which should be hosted here but our  have um and we generate significant dollars for those communities because we have no way  to host those events here we are the only part of Florida that doesn't have year round ice access  and I have a map I would love to share with you along with the base Center renovations to  the ice plant please reconsider funding a base Center practice ranker the inclusion of an ice  sheet if a sports facility is to be built give us a chance to talk we were another stakeholder  that wasn't invited to the table for the second time take time to assess any potential economic  impact that rink might yield there is no competition for Ice Sports for Miles why  duplicate and compete for hard court Sports when there's an opportunity to be unique and  enjoy the built-in book of business that already exists are we just waiting for another Community  to attract the tourist as well as our local programs away and I'm probably out of time  20 seconds 20 seconds okay just a side note we just received our fall ice availability  for our programs and if your child skates on a Wednesday or a Thursday night between the  month of October and December 31st your child's going to have two lessons thank you thank you chair all right our next speaker is Greg is that say banford yes sir yes sir please introduce yourself and limit your comments to three minutes please thank you okay my  name is Greg Bamford um 20 26 will Mark the 30th year since I was uh here in Pensacola uh I've been  uh back and forth several times I'm the father of a junior ice flyer that uh plays hockey here he's  been traveling and playing hockey for 7even years I'm not speaking statistics I'm not speaking data  what I'm speaking about is an opportunity to be creative in an environment that has ever growing  it's amazing to see the growth of Pensacola in the 30 years since I've been gone and have come back  it takes imagination to grow a community and the council needs to be imaginative and how  it uses its available space to not think about the advantages that including ice hockey figure  skating the opportunity for classes lessons summer activities will grow your tourism is shortsighted  I've heard or read comments where people will not invest money in the community if they don't think  that it's going to be profitable and 5 years and I think that's shortsighted I don't think I've  ever heard of a product or a business that is started and is profitable in their first two to  three years you have an opportunity to increase the activity of your youth your community your  adults in a period of time when your beaches are full your hot your hotels are full and on a hot  summer day some of the best places you can be is an ice rink I also think that it's shortsighted  to say that using the bed tax and not using it for advertisement for the hotels and for other tourism  related things in the beach is also short-sided in those off Seasons hockey and figure skating will  bring tournaments in you can bring in almost 20 to $30,000 per tournament in your off season we  may not fill your hotels in the summer but these activities have an opportunity to bring business  in your offseason Pensacola needs to continue to have the imagination and the willingness to take  risk that has changed the downtown to an amazing place to spend your free time and I think that  an unwillingness to talk to the stakeholders that have something other to offer than what is  standard here in the community is the wrong answer thank you thank you [Applause] next speaker Jen Burkhart uh I'm Jen Burkhart and I am the secretary for the Northwest Florida hockey  league um the Pensacola Junior ice flyers I am also the manager for the 12 and the 14U  tournament teams um and I'm a parent of a little hockey player um I would like you to consider Ice  Sports for the new facility I know it seems um I know it seems like we have other sports that  maybe are more common or more important but I just want to remind you that the last of the last four  years the Stanley Cup has come home to Florida we are growing um all the time we're the tenth  in the nation for producing hockey players um here um I have almost 30 hockey players on my teams and  currently we are spending $250 an hour in Columbus to skate those kids um in addition to that money  that's just the ice time we also are paying for hotels about $500 a family a weekend um  that's money that could be in our here that we could have people coming to our community paying  that $500 to us in addition to that we go to four to six tournaments a year usually over the winter  those tournaments are stay to play we have to stay all 30 of us have to stay to play there  and we have to pay to do that full price sometimes extra um we have over 10 teams that skate with us  here and we're begging for ice time for single hours of ice time for our kids um our travel  teams paid $7,000 to Birmingham and Columbus for um supplemental ice and host weekends those host  weekends should be held here that $177,000 should be coming here but instead we're walking it to  Birmingham um our learn to playay program closed last season with 139 on the wait list that's just  the ones waiting um right now we have over a hundred kids registered and our season hasn't  started yet we have um 21 practices between now and the end of um December for all of those kids  um the southern Youth Travel hockey league is who our travel teams play with they posted over  $700,000 profit that one Le and tournament Revenue um none of that Revenue came here none of that  went to our hotels none of that went to our res to our restaurants none of that our kids had to  pay to go do that so I would just like to ask you to please consider giving our hundreds of  little people a place to skate year around or at least more than we get now thank you thank you our next speaker is Frank Lloyd hi I'm Frank Lloyd um I got like a zillion things in my brain right now but I I'll just tell  you where I'm at I come from Massachusetts I grew up I was 3 years old when I started skating played  multiple Sports as a kid but I was I gravitated to hockey when I grew up played hockey to out  for 26 years coached the peeee hockey team to a championship because I taught him how to how  to play the game retired got into figure skating became usfsa got bronze level uh freestyle skater  and where I skated up in Massachusetts there were eight she sheet of ice we're only asking  for one but that that rank generated in the in the busy season $80,000 a weekend $50,000 on  a on the on the off season it's very productive the owner of the rink wanted to generate hotels  to so that people he would F make all the money the profit that he could get so it's a good deal  if you guys could would consider that but but um so that's kind of where I'm at with I'm a I'm I'm  retired I I skated 5 years ago that was my last competition um I'm injured but I'm working my way  back to because skating is better than pounding okay so that's where I'm at so I'm I'm going to  be so unfortunately Pensacola Sports commissioned two two feasible studies assesses needs in this  community despite having having legal and binding contracts with SMG and the county we've not been  included at the table we've not been able to tell uh the Consultants uh what what our what  our needs are if they are being met how many residents and visitors participate how many  dollars are generated the tourism the military inquiries re received the dollars of was we as an  organization and participants spend elsewhere uh that that our current market extends from Panama  City to Gulf uh beloy how many how many other sports were were not invited to the table for  this feasible study are the results truly in accurate a representation of this community's  uh needs so just consider that thank you thank you [Applause] you uh next speaker is uh Darren schaer good afternoon Darren Schaefer with visit Pensacola um I just wanted to come out  today this afternoon uh and share how visit Pensacola shares the use of the Fist scent  to do destination development and use that money to either create new facilities or  renovate existing facilities that have the potential to generate significant visitor  impact for Escambia County uh I'm a big fan of sports in my previous life I did something very  similar ran a Sports Authority like my friend Ray Palmer uh I understand the value what they  can bring to the county at visit Pensacola and our strategic plan we've identified however that  one of our immediate needs and opportunities is to provide conference space of of size of  125,000 ft minimum to address the Wy Wy inadequate availability of space in our  Market that's currently preventing existing events to grow but are really our inability  to attract major meetings and conferences to our area and we've ongoingly developed  a list of all the meetings of conference and The Meeting Planners that we've talked to that can't  come here would love to come here but can't cuz we don't have the space i' be happy to share that  I think I've been vocal with the both the board of County Commissioners and the TDC in the past about  that priority and the reason why I'm here now is that when I look at the proposal that came out  after the last TDC meeting and looking at uh how that's to be funded it is going to effectively um  use up the fifth Cent as far as being bondable and neither of the two facilities proposed uh  are going to be able to provide you know that meeting and Conference space needs there'll be  some open space could be do some exhibit space but won't really meet the needs of a meeting planner  won't be competitive that we can actually go out and pitch and bring those kind of events to uh  scambia County um and with the fact that that'll be bonded for the next 30 Years it means that  uh unfortunately we won't have the ability to to use tdt funds to help create that facility  potentially for the next 30 years and that would be detrimental to the county thank you thank you Darren all right uh that is our last speaker that signed up is there anyone  else here who wish to speak to this item that did not fill out paperwork if not uh I will call uh Ray Palmer and uh Michael caps and Michael rhods please come on up and friends thank you um obviously we've already made our presentation so um I guess  today was really for us to try and clarify any questions other than we need a bigger we need  a bigger pot of money you know because we can't make everybody happy um and we feel very strongly  that of the facilities and the properties that we found that this one checks more boxes than any  of the others is it perfect we know it's not um and so we're here to try and answer any specific  questions you may have and then um we'll see what y'all decide to do Michael yes thank you and thank  thank you Ray and thank you board for having us back today um as Ry said uh we realized maybe this  property might not check every box there is but we feel that it checks a whole lot of boxes and  we've been on neutral for this type facility for 10 to 15 years I've been in in 18 years and it's  been discussed for I believe Ray can correct me on this for 10 or 15 years and it's been on neutral  and uh this is a county-owned facility as I said last time that does check a whole lot of the boxes  uh drafting your few notes Here is we were asked to perform a feasibility study to see if an indoor  venue would fit on this particular site uh and determine if there was a demand for the indoor  space for sports or special events uh the study yielded yes there is a need for indoor space be  it for sports or for Expos or special events the study deemed that there is a need for these type  of uh of this type of space and it also deemed we were tasked for determining if this site could  accommodate this type of a facility in which the study yielded a yes that it could accommodate this  type is it the perfect site I'm not saying that I'm saying it checks a whole lot of boxes for this  and it's also a proven site um evident by four to five major soccer tournaments already at the site  uh having over a 100 teams for those uh events so it is a proven site again not maybe the perfect  site I'm not saying that but it checks a whole lot of boxes that folks will come to Brenham Park  it's not too far out uh home of the SEC soccer tournament probably the most elite high-profile  College uh conference in the country um so again we filled it checks a whole lot of boxes certainly  we know it has some challenges like traffic and so forth which uh again the study was very clear  that it does present some challenges with traffic and we feel that we have a way to accommodate that  Frank just with smart scheduling the volume of traffic is very high during the school hours it's  not that high during non-school hours in which we would not have events during school hours that's  just not the case but again I realize this is a challenge um this is a tough decision and again  I think Ray said it best this is a county-owned facility that we fill checks a whole lot of the  boxes in a situation where there hasn't been a whole lot of options come before you in my opinion  so I thank you for your time thank thank you very much thank you Mr Rees um let me ask you a question Michael Michael yes sir um have you I mean all we can do is recommend have  you discussed this particular Proposal with all the County Commissioners this the County  Commissioners were vetted on I say vetted were given this proposal in advance the feasibility  study yes sir I can't speak for them how the support is but they were they were given the  information prior to this presentation prior to coming to the so you spoke with all the county  that is correct sir along with the school board um so because this is a bond issue um from experience  I know that it's going to take longer than most so have you spoken to any of the parti the incoming  County Commissioners uh no sir I I have not Mr strob Berger Mr stroberg obviously was a  a an aid to one of the Commissioners I I know Mr sturer I've never met Miss Ashley hoffberger okay  I I if that was the question I apologize the question was have you spoken to the incoming  ones because it's going to go over I I have spoken to Mr stroberg not about this particular subject  like I said I've never met Miss Ashley hoffberger okay thank you Charle one on the right there we  go thanks um I have a question I know that both of you uh Ray and Michael um I know that y'all  have spent a tremendous amount of time looking at other sites and so forth and I know that this  is the best site that you find that will accom to accommodate the things you have plus check all the  boxes can you share with us some any other sites that were possibly considered and why they were  not acceptable uh well we didn't we this when we approved or this board approved the contract for  this one it was specific to this site previous L we have looked at uh the old ECUA property which  ultimately was then sold to Mr stter and then he opted out for a different use um we looked at a  facility on the port uh we looked at a facility on the at the end of Main Street across from the  yacht club and then the Sanders Beach area but the extension of um the EPA of the uh remediation of  that was such a long period of time there was no support for that one the amount of um property  uh remediation at the Port which was a waste site same thing just didn't make sense um and the other  one was um up at the W Street area and I don't remember now of course FPL had it and bought it  and we tried to trade to get the county to Trade property they were going to trade property because  FPL had that and they wanted to build a uh some some kind of energy farm but they didn't have the  right kind of property and the quantities that they needed that would make the trade so that  killed that one as a trade and they were they were not interested in or not willing FPL was  not willing to sell us off a portion of it there was an All or Nothing deal which was 20 s Acres  or what it was way way way at a budget again it goes back to we basically have been told you have  one source of funds no Triumph money no tourist um Improvement districts have been pursued so we've  not pursued and the TDC has not pursued and the county has not pursued or lost we were told you  have one pocket of money and it ain't honestly very big when you div if I mean I gota be honest  we if you really think we want to kill all our tourism dollars on one project that has a lot  of community components to it hell no we don't that's not our mission but that's our directive  from the people that we respond to so that's what the guidelines that we're working under  so if those are this a Brent was also looked at I don't know I wasn't part of the the organization  that looked at Brent and why that doesn't fit I can tell you pretty quickly it doesn't have  Hotel structure it doesn't have the restaurants that these types of of clientele are looking  for and it surely doesn't meet the downtown need that of the conference center the convention type business and the Baye Center was also included in that study okay he left that one out but the  base Center was number one location you're right in the original in the original uh look was the  base Center but not as a it was just what is the base Center what are the purposes of the  base Center because the original study I don't know which study you're looking at 2000 the one  that was done seven years ago that showed an adjacent building next to the Bas Center the  it was a popular study the one we got on Friday okay it was like a copy of it but it was a new  one that was sent Friday I don't know where that came from that's that's a different different  study than with the one I've never been a part of that study okay before we lose councilwoman Bron  would you you have some comments I just wanted to say I have to go oh okay but also speaking on the  microphone please but also um it seems like there are many community members here who wen't weren't  invited it seems they're saying they weren't invited to a conversation or that they're parts  of the conversation that they weren't privy to so I want to make sure that they are and  honestly when I first heard this plan I was all excited because I thought it was a perfect plan  but I eventually started hearing from people who had input that just weren't invited to the table  and um even the fact that it's two members on city council and I'm guessing councilman Jones is at  city council at our meeting right now which is where I'm supposed to be so um I would like this  conversation to be more open for everyone who's at the table and even though I understand what  happened last time we ran over and today we're having this other conversation on a council day  where we're the only ones who are representative of the city up here so um I I hear you all and I  hope that we can have an at least an opportunity to have more of a conversation with the cities at  the table that's all I want to say thank you and now I got to go all right be careful uh  Ronnie were you gonna yeah just uh real quick I did have an opportunity I was the one that kind  of asked for the study and I did I did read the study I've actually read it three or four times  um and oddly enough I wrote out there right that's kind of what you should do is right  out there and take a look around um I do have some concerns about the study uh the study is  pretty clear that uh the engineering plan has not been done for wastewater treatment out there or  for water treatment out there rather um could somebody talk to me a little bit about that I  mean it says that this approach is conceptual in nature has not been engineered to details  could somebody just talk to me a little bit about that and tell me you know that's kind of how the  conversation started with me to begin with was the infrastructure is the infrastructure there  and will it hold this the study kind of claims that it you know storm water management is just  a strategy it's not a plan currently so a little bit about yeah again this being Fe feasibility  study it was just the initial review of storm water and Engineering per se and I have asked  uh David grasel with um convergence design he should be on the call Via Zoom right now um I  the CMR Department had him on and I would defer to him to this if possible uh Mr grazel are you available I'll let CMR before the meeting they were patching him and to make sure right give a second I'm here can anyone hear me yep uh if you would speak up just a little bit it's hard to hear  sure um so yeah I mean basically what you both said is correct uh we we did a conceptual storm  water management plan but not a detailed storm water management plan because we don't have a  building design yet um it would make sense to do a detailed storm water management plan once  the building has been designed but uh it it doesn't make sense to do all the engineering  at this point when uh there's you know not yet a building design uh having said that I I feel  very confident that uh with the various storm water management measures that are proposed in  the feasibility study that were worked out with our civil engineering consultant ow uh that we can  very readily develop a storm water manag plan for this site that that meets all the county and uh  State criteria for treating storm water on site I don't think that's going to be the thing that  derails this project okay thank you for your time thank you thank you David and standby I'm here I  got a question um for either one of you guys so I know Ray you mentioned to me that there's like  a committee that was put together and just now you said that this location was the only location  that was sort there was no really site survey to say hey which which locations are ranked 1 2 3 4  5 this can who decided on this location and who made that call that Hey listen only study this  location and not look at the other ones that were on the list before cuz if I I read the one seven  years ago and this wasn't even on the list at the time and somehow it surpassed all the rest of them  well that's cuz it was n on the list 5 years ago and I don't I'm quite frankly I don't know why we  missed it 5 years ago but probably a year or so ago we were all stand out there and we were like  look at this huge big old flat piece of land we've got and we just foot added the extension  to the soccer um I mean the um the soccer complex we just added a multi-purpose building and it was  like made sense and so y'all approved this site only when we when you approved this study to be  the engineering and feasibility of putting this building on this site we did we did as a group  this is what we brought to y'all and with the proposal with the budget or the bids and said  here are our bids for doing this so we did this as a group as this was the site that we said this  is the site we're going to go look and see if it works so why wasn't the tourist industry included  in this particular involvement and the other stakeholders that feel like they've been taken by surprise I I we've reported at visit Pensacola we've reported here in the TDC meetings updates Michael well did  talked about this along the way um I I I don't know have a good answer nobody was being nothing  was being hidden from anybody Jim why they weren't I think that the county said we're going to put a  committee together felt like we'd been going through this for 15 years and four different  studies and we had narrowed it down and you know when you get to a certain point you feel like  you're there and we felt like we were there again this was one checked the boxes we thought better  than anybody and we still think it checks more boxes and anything that we are aware of that's  affordable that the county already owns and still feel that way and so the county put together a  committee of mostly County employees and myself to push this next venue study and it seemed to  be the right thing going I mean there there have been reports at Rotary meetings we've told the  story and nobody said oh we're not you know we're this what we're going to do we know we supposed  to build an indoor venue because that's what the community has said we need I know they want ice I  know the pool people want um want a swimming pool I know I know BMX people that want a BMX track I  mean we have a lot of requests and a lot of needs but we don't have a lot of money so this is where  we ended up today that's God's honest truth and I don't think anybody was intended to be left out  and I think information was out there um again Michael caps made a presentation a  month ago for 60 70 80 million dollar and Jim you questioned him why aren't you asking for it  all today and he said well I was told not to so we're following the directives of our leadership  because we answer to you guys so how did you decide to put the two Bond issues together we  we have talked a number of times seven yeah yeah I was going to just say I didn't I was  trying to push them together because I didn't want one to cannibalize the other  because I thought that both projects were very important and that it'd be important that the TD