all right let's call this meeting to order at 7:13 p.m. we're going to start with the salute to the flag I pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the repic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all please join me in a moment of Sil reflection thank you sunshine law notice Alison I don't have that either does any I do not have it's different thank you all right sunshine l in accordance with the provisions of the open public meetings ACT public meetings may be held in person by means of communication equipment to include streaming services and other online meeting platforms this meeting is being held in person and through the zoom meeting platform being broadcast from bur Hall 748 River Road Fair New Jersey public participation for this regular council meeting of February 5th 2024 is available by calling phone number through Web Conference Zoom members of the public will be on mute until it is time for questions or comments which will be announced at that time the public has the opportunity to question or comment by phone or through Zoom by the raiseed hand button and will be called on at the appropriate time notice of this meeting was included in a schedule of meetings which was adopted by resolution number 2024-25 post on the burough website the Bolton board in the municipal building and has remained continuously posted as required on the statute with adequate notice having been given the B clerk is directed to include the statement in the minutes of this meeting Alison may please have a roll call counc memb Paul yesi yes yes yes yes yes thank you uh 25 polar Avenue tree appeal is the gentleman who was on Zoom last meeting here he's on he is on Zoom okay this is Sean sh you there yes this is Sean Lynch I live on 25 popular can you hear me okay all right um Sean I see you have an email here uh is there anything you want to add to that or tell us uh I mean I just wanted to thank the council again for the previous time last week or sorry in the previous session uh I thought they raised some good points uh but I think there was some qu uh some confusion about the quantity of trees and my request uh I just wanted to make the statement that I'm here seeking to have three pine trees my backyard removed the root system continues to cause damage to the concrete footings which is causing the fence to fall uh five or years ago these footings were replaced uh yet it continues to be an issue I'd like to work with the town to the trees removed and replant with the council's approval um my my only question is to you um based on the email from Abby and Matt kovski is is the burrow have any liability here if there's damage to the fence or the house or has that become a civil complaint between two residents it' be between the two residents anyone else my only outstanding question was related to the property lines right or the where then we last time talked about where were the trees on Whose property line and we wanted the clarification right and as you can see in the pictures they uh they added a new fence which is white vinyl our fence is wooden you can clearly see that the property line and where where it runs through no negative sorry I don't know what pictures you're referencing Bud oh we so he gave 10 pictures that being one of them got it this is super helpful for me I'm good on yeah take and then you're going to replant a fence we'd like to repair our own fence we'd like to replant trees in the after the removal of these pine trees he's going to attempt to stabilize the four footings of the fence posts got it which have been completely damaged by the trees then there's three other posts which have begun to fail that need further inspection if the damage is too severe to fix they're going to further pursue a profession um just one question Sean you interested in planting um Native shade trees he writes here that he's going to he's going to replace them reos Ros good choice thank you anyone else anyone a motion I'll make a motion to approve second uh all in favor hi hi anyone opposed all right Sean thank you thanks Sean for the extra due diligence sir I appreciate it thank you very much I appreciate the council's time Sean just wait make sure you wait for the letter from the buau before you cut anything absolutely all right thank you thank you very much uh next up fair Green Team pollinator signed we yes on hi ell fenan 223 thir Street um so uh the fre team was awarded Jersey Grant l in May and to help design and create Implement a pollinator Garden on the Third Street Trail in addition um with some an interpretive sign education sign about why pollinator Gardens are important the use of native plants um so we are seeking an approval for the sign design um we have given you a draft of it and I know I sent to Alison a updated draft um I have a few of these copies here and I believe it's also on the screen um little bit information educations of why or what role poly are why it's important for Native plans and what and some of the plans that we are actually having there in the garden so people can go there and actually Point them out bring some information if they were wanting to do this in their own you heard as well what's the uh are you you ready for questions I'm ready for questions why why is the pscg foundation are they giving the grant yes so the grant is supplied by uh sustainable jurys of the mpf and so any um education or printed materials need to have their logos as well great and the's be um what about now this is in fairen fields right the third Trail what about children who are allergic to bees and beestings I mean we do have quite a few children in our school system that that carry epipens just for their purpose so how do you intend to protect these children from from the pway well I um the pollinator Garden uh there's a lot of different pollinators and types of pollinators right bees are just one of them although um bees are everywhere it's really hard to contain um children from being having bees there they could be the Clover on fairing Fields as well when they play baseball so um I don't think we're trying to put any children in danger and or Harm's Way that's not the intent um but understanding too that most of the the bees as well there's a lot of bees that don't even sting that are pollinators um that are doing such an important job um so I the goal is to educate expand ecosystems build a healthier native ecosystem and I just um you know I think that risk is everywhere kids are going to be as well um you know because you get Clover and flowers in your grass as well and you can't protect it so um our thoughts is that we're not trying to build a b Colony or equ you know but just a supply um habitat for a large number of different and your garden will be well marked right it will be marked it's off to the side so it's not right on the path of where you know a lot of the students or um residents bike and walk their dogs it's a little bit off to the side kind of on the base of the hill of the um the the brush area so if you haven't been there before it kind of I mean I think it's a great way to kind of soften that landscape a little bit too because um it is the backside of the Brush Hill and so that would be um just a great uh way to kind of improve the look of that area as well so it's off to the side a little bit are we G to are you planning on having each individual's plant actually marked or just on the sign so this is um the base of the sign now perhaps if approval that could be something else where we can actually identify the sign with a tiny little um identifier right there so that you know um I know Nativity Church has done that and their pollinator Garden it looks really cute but this is just for this one sign that's going to be there that what are you say so this shows you which plants are in it but what I was asking is sometimes they'll have little labels at the actual plant that's growing so you can yeah we have don't we have some of that in the Natural Area by trees trees that very old signs maybe about five to seven does the money for from um sustainable Jersey and PNG just cover the cost of the sign no it covers the cost of the sign um as well as the plants and and materials that we need for the I'm just wondering can can would those signs be able to fit in or um yes yes um it's a $2,000 Grant the sign um design and um production will cost about $680 um plus about $150 to ship it will take about six to8 weeks for Designing and production and shipping um one caveat of the or parameter of the grant is that it needs to be completed by the final report needs to be turned in and completed by the end of May so this is a timely matter and I appreciate it and thank you for um putting us on the um this meeting um so that we hope we still need if if approved we' have to get the vendor approved by the burrow and it'll take some time so we're hoping that perhaps if we can get is by May um and do the you know put get it in the ground so we have plenty of time to do the final report can I ask one more question um how long do you expect that this Garden would be active um we're hoping that it it it's something that remains part of the ongoing maintenance whether it's through the volunteers or the burrow but we're hoping that this is the thing with um Native Plant Gardens and pollinated Gardens and can speak more to it but once it's established it's pretty self so so you wouldn't expect the B to maintain it no I I we had over 60 volunteers this weekend working that trail I do think that people love that area and love what's happening I think that we would be easily able to work that into another volunteer day or get other people to help out um we've been working with the Norwood Green Team we have a pollinator Garden on their uh grounds we also have ring Garden their green team is and with Miss hille their moderator is fantastic and it's always looking for things to help um do and projects I think the the scouts would be great as well um and maybe join and collaborate with The Fair Haven Garden Club um and other great Community organizations we have here but the once it takes about a year to get these plants you have to water them sub you know for the year and then once their roots are established they're pretty much you know self-sufficient because because there's no water out there no so you would you would organize volunteers to water the garden as what's been happening for the past two years with those trees that there yes um and it the thing is which is a benefit is that these plants don't need nearly as much water as a tree does um during the summer but yes that um that's something that we will definitely work and hopefully you know Fair Haven volunteers will come in again and and and help us out with that we have to install sign is it DPW or the manufacturer ass sign so we would be asking if DPW could if not it's um they give you great instructions for it you don't need cement piling you can also use crushed stone as well and and they give you all the instructions for how far to dig it in um and it will most likely be a wooden post Lum you post up there 4x4 yeah I okay so you're not you're not use because this this shows that it was um I thought I saw high strength aluminum is that the frame you could do so uh there's two different cost options um High aluminum will be a little bit more substantial or significant um it will be $411 compared to a lumber post wor 262 so Weir you think and I think the wooden area in that natural uh you know will will fit right into the landscape that's well too little um so that knocks out one of my questions sure uh so I have no problem with this um but I do want to bring up an existential uh issue in faan which is I think sometimes signs get put up and someone mentioned and then over time they do get neglected and they don't look as good 5 10 years 15 years down the down the road so like I know one of my favorite signs was at the dock I don't even think it's still there with the mark of where hurricanes so I love I love stuff like this but the question becomes how do how do we um and I think this might have some beautification uh or maybe rotation for maintenance something something I think we need to discuss how do we maintain these moving forward so that the sign gets placed and it looks as nice this year as it does 10 years from now otherwise you're going to start putting these signs up over town and I think they're going to uh have a detriment to the town rather than enhance it um if we do it the right way I I could see this program you know going to other places and whether it's historical signs or whether it's educational signs we do more but we got to do it the right way so I'm just mentioning good point well on that with that aluminum would be better I agree that wood would look better but aluminum would look better after 10 years it's a little rust doesn't rust but that's also um the structural part right that's a post and the post you can feasibly view and and you know on your own it's talk you're talking about the actual cover the material the plastic you know exactly and so this is actually designed um that they're on they're outdoor sign this is what this company does and makes for um rson Victory Park rain Garden just do the same sign or the same company to do their rain Garden sign right there at Victory Park there's going to be exposure to a lot of elements obviously in the nature of our environment here um but they do say that with the materials it should guaranteed to last 10 years you know in that range um I I just wanted to uh first compliment uh green team's efforts on behalf of Fair Haven I think one pollinator Garden then another pollinator garden and then another leads to ni po path which is Beau for not um and I think the mayor's point about you know multiplying signs is a fair one um we can contemplate a more comprehensive signage scheme if if there is going to be more but in this instance we're talking about one for education purposes and perhaps there's one at no wood for education purposes which seems to be completely in line with the whole point um my only question has have you given any thought and perhaps this is also question for Council to the location of the sign so uh we hope to put the it right in the front next to the Garden yes right in the garden kind of off to again as you enter the um Third Street Trail either from Third Street um or from Fair Fields it's kind of in this area right here um yes and so we want to do it in the front there in a visible spot so people will be you know inclined to come over and see what this is about and so something of an invitation yes and a little interaction yes ni question emotion my only my only only thing is fully supportive um I love it I think it's long overdue um my fear is vandalism um we know that kids hang back there sure um so I don't know if in the grand or outside the grand I'm going to use a term to metaphorically describe what I'm thinking but if there was like an apple tag equivalent that we could put in the sign so if somebody did steal it take it even try and move it somewhere else we could track it I don't know if that's opportune but you know that Sandy Stein got taken down um I know other signs around town have been targets and this is literally in the dark in the middle of the woods where there's not a lot of traffic at night time to deter activity so I welcome anything that did the sandard time get taken down because of bandal or just it was moved because it was taken I don't really know what happened one day probably good that's I I love that sign too that was a great sign youd show all the kid you know I'll put it on the I'll just see we find out now in speaking of vandalism so I did reach out to her asking that there are two different types of um materials you can use she said as long as you're not worried about vandalism from sharp objects think a on a fishing Peri where everyone has HX and pliers and this should be fine that it's covered and and durable um it's Al graffiti resistant and you know you can like use scrubbers and graffiti cleaning no problem it mess up the material people um underneath it is fastened to a plate on the back that is put on to and fastened to the um the post but yes I don't know if somebody really wanted that sign could they get it I'm I'm sure they sure and I'm talking like you know the teenagers going through at 7:30 night and trying to goop off right really into pollinators that would cool Rea is it is Is it feasible for the DPW to do is that easy to do or is it the installation piece I I'll talk to Rich I mean if if it's not a heavy lift I don't you know think it should be too difficult but you know it's off the top of my head I don't recall them uh install the other signs I think we have the The Sign Company do it these people are did you check with any local vendors I mean why are we going so far away um I spoke with two vendors that do interpretive um signs um and this one was much cheaper than PSE sign and Backer and rson used them and had you could see the sign and the quality of it and so that's why um I chose you know went there I'm happy to you know look into what signs I think the price is pretty fair yeah seemed to have done your build that's okay I just didn't know if there was a reason why we were you know I would feel better if we had either the DPW or the Sign Company put it in no offense with the volunteers unless you do it day you get cross um we also the one of the primaries of that company actually does the illustrations yes so that's also saving us money cop by any illustration is all done by the artist that's in house that's that's a that's a money save press as well um we can put it on our next the engineering public works yeah just wrote it down okay great and I'm happy to send you the installation instructions and and the material disp that they thank you thank you do someone have a motion okay thing I thought of it um as opposed to the wooden post it'd be nice aside manufacturer mounting it to a wooden post hor is mounting it to you know the aluminum if the aluminum is a much easier Mount you know it's just four little you know bolts or something that it might be worth the extra money for the aluminum post as opposed to woring at how they're going to actually um put it to the wooden post okay all in favor anyone opposed thank you thank you you okay all right uh proposed brush and leaf collection ordinance you want to yeah I'll give a quick uh update and then we can jump into the discussion we wanted to come back one more time um all of the feedback um based on the last govern body meeting and discussions has been Incorporated um a few things that have to be further clarified in here just everybody's in the same page the brush P is for brush only so any there's there's one still I think outlier related to leaves in here um there's been discussion and we need direction from the governing body for those that use a landscape or not compliance we updated it that the first violation doesn't occur fine right and then they a 10-day grace period like we talked about um but if there is a f and Andrew I'll kind of look to you can we find both the landscaper and the resident so there would only be able to be one fine issue but you can issue the complaints to multiple parties to see who who would that in fact take ultimate responsibility okay but then what what happens when they start fighting with each other about who responsibility is can we or two answer oh sorry hi I thought it's rude sorry I was going to say if you issue the citation to both of the parties then I mean no neither of the party will be responsible until they are you know agreed to either pay it in municipal court or you know are found guilty of the of the violation so um the court process would play itself out with regards to them pointing figures at each other and who the responsible party is Christina are there any towns that do find the landscaper worth the resident most of the towns do that I've that I've looked into so they're they're giving the citation to the the landscaper not the resident so I don't know how they actually you know execute their ordinance but they do allow for dual responsibility the landlord I'm sorry the landlord sorry the landscaper as well as the homeowner can be issued a violation that's that's exactly why we have in our B ordinance that we hold you know landscapers must be registered in order to conduct business here yes so you know if they're going to be you know licensed to conduct business here then we they should be held to a higher standard than just your mom and pop you know if we didn't have that ordinance in place then I would say you know maybe we we wouldn't look to enforce against a landscaper but we because we have this heightened uh sense of responsibility to you know for or obligations for the landscaper it's why we would name both I would have this I would compare this to a situation with a contractor right so if you have a contractor going out to a home to do work and they don't have the requisite um permits you know both parties would then have some type of liability here and the contractor can be issued a violation as well as the home Ark but who pays the fine that that's that's for the judge to determine right but my only question is how do we know what landscapers work at what homes do they register for each home or only register to work in register to work right so we have no way of knowing find them in in the act in the yeah I think that's why we were yeah warning residents because correct I mean I think that that's an Enforcement issue that can be tweaked and worked out as time goes on if necessary I mean regardless of whether you the ordinance stays as it stands there's going to be an issue of enforcement and how you actually decide to issue violations if you see them in the act or if you know you know if you just have someone patrolling the area to see who's responsible and who's doing the Landscaping there the alternative to that is when the landscapers register or when they gain new um new homes to landscape that they update the burrow um but I don't necessarily know if that's something that the governing body would want take on okay and then the thank you Christine and then the only other item update I'll give and then open up straight to discussion or two items excuse me is um we went back and forth on the bag leaves we we talked about it last time um the farm doesn't take bag leaves so then it would introduce um emptying the bags into um the trucks number one and it also doesn't solve the issue of brushing leaf pickup in the fall and spring so the the flexibility of this is that it's a rolling leaf pickup to give the DPW the flexibility in Rolling leaf pickup to pick the leaves whenever they're perceived and they do very similar on the brush as well I Know Rich isn't here um and then the only other update too just to give you guys some some so everybody public doesn't have this if anyone wants to see to more welcome to this is some of the initial I'll call it collateral um still work in progress but we've had quite a few residents call in and as Betty and has educated them she started to boil down the bottom line up front um and probably the most advantageous one is this one pager that really breaks it down into Zone one and two and three and four and then gives the residents um QR codes where QA is what their street list is the municipal calendar um so that all the information is available so these are not finalized but again we probably have six to 12 different thoughts on how we will educate over the course of the year um in order to to continue educating and whatnot so so can we can we La is that a good segue for open discussion let's go so since the BR leave committee kind of reported the findings which was essentially a brand new program I think of it as almost a program offering a service offering that didn't exist before or didn't another form but this is like a new thing and better better thing there's going to be increased services our streets are going to be cleaner going to help keep the river cleaner it's going to help to mitigate against spot flooding hopefully you know so there's a lot of good reasons for this I and I think these products or floweral you want call it start to I describe the program and um I would like to see us gets the point separate from the ordinance separate un couple what we're talking about in ter like the ordinance we could continue to talk about and work on but the actual program and how it's going to function and all the education whether it's going to be letters or a PDF that's textable and all the new apps that person I just talking about that's all stuff that we can start to engage the community in so that they can have the lead time needed to understand it decide what part of it is going to be appropriate for their household do they want to get the green can how we get the green can after I get the green can where I'm going to put the green can I have to conceal the green can I might need to make some changes in order to do it's just normal things that people go through and um I'm just going to suggest like maybe we take the time to do that conversation and let there be a back and forth with the residents as they're Lear Le in what's been baking for a long time and start to get that education and communication piece out there before there's an actual law there doesn't need to be any enforcement while we're you know while we're launching an idea and having a discussion the reason I'm suggesting this is because you know we're not these are the residents we serve we serve do HKS friends and neighbors and we're not parents instituting new household rules and explaining a you all really going to get a correction this is our chance to serve the community and improve something that could probably use some improvement so I just want to suggest that perhaps we really get our communication pieces to a place where everybody here can sign off on embrace it run it B the Russian Leaf committee make sure they're get the communication piece really tight and then start to share it before we have an ordinance that talks about going to court and you know fines and we can we can initiate the actual change in the program at any time we could wait till next sprr could start it when rolling leaf pickup can start in November I mean I I'm not saying I have the optimal ideas to when it would start but we know that we need to do the communication piece and I don't think that I mean when would this start March 22nd well the the new the new brush T pickup would start in may nothing changes in so but they have to put stuff out they have to understand the spring cleanup is different no that's the same that's the same as we do now spring cleanup is the same let's say it is no no not say it is it is the same okay it's the same so we're talking about how many how many weeks do you think we need to talk about because I'm saying we could use up to six months to talk about this why why we need six months to talk about this I this is and I made up six months maybe we need eight months I don't really know but I know because people are going to have to make changes to their household operation it's a calendar can I ask it's a Calendar's calar when I read this it says that we have the ability to set the schedule every year so this is all fle this this ordinance is gives us a lot of flexibility with this that can be tweaked so we can pass the ordinance and then tweak this later is that correct yeah so I'm good with it and and and just real quick right just just to put all the data points out there the brush Lea committee hasn't assembled this year they their their role concluded at the end of last year it was based on all the door knock gain and feedback as brush and leaf as the the significant issue and this was first raised back right so we took it offline kept providing updates throughout the entire year in the public forum and then back at in the end of last year September October time frame I can't remember the exct day is when this started being to educated I am all for educating and in fact right we changed the ordinance to provide a grace period in the year right which is reflected in here originally there was no grace period for any residents and last year or excuse me last government by I mean we said hey we should give a grass grace period so that about 10 days 10 days 10 days to so um I just I just offer those data points um and and I and I and I give that up there I'm all for Education I'm going to refer the communications committee you guys have been working I've seen the emails coming through like signic L on this even to last year right so and on your hand there's three pages there so the first two would be double signage just provided the third to show you when they click on that QR code that's the information that they're going to see just wanted to give you an overall so I think it's fair to say there a lot of thought already work into this education piece with communication committees already and I think so far what we seeing you know is very well done and I I don't I don't think our residents are going to have an issue understanding what we're doing Tracy's point you know if she doesn't think we should find people you know they want to throw up you know something in that says fines won't start until you know September 1st or something that's up to the govering body or the attorney to say whether you can do it or not but I don't think implementing the program and you you have to pass the ordinance diing with the program so and we have to get the ordinance on for introduction at the next meeting and then adoption so you know we can't hold up the ordinance so that has to move well you can that's that's the I'm not listen guys I'm just going to keep my mind here because I got I gotta feel right with myself and you you can introduce a program which is separate from an so you can introduce a program that describes what's going to happen when how you prepare for it what sort of this you know conversation you might have to determine whether or not you're going to participate how you participate if you opt out is there a downside people might want to consider those sorts of things you can talk about the program and introduce an ordinance at a time whenever it's determined to be appropriate and you could even and then decide when the programs or the actual program is going to roll out could start at the beginning it could start somewhere else in the calendar year I'm not I don't know when that would be I'm just concerned about this happening too quickly yes I'm on just I just want to address what you said I there's I said it last meeting there's going to be pain it's there's going to be pain when we roll it out I agree with that but we've we've built in 10 days to fix that pain if we make a mistake if you get it wrong you have 10 days to fix it and get it right and not be penalized for it I'm being told here is this accurate that nothing changes until May 7th correct so by the time we would pass this if we introduce it at the next meeting you're going to have two months two months to educate the public on this new plan so I'm just I'm band withd that's why I mean it's I just looked at this calendar the first 30 seconds I looked at I was overwhelmed and two minutes later I was like wow this is great it took me two minutes to really dive into it and understand okay that means that that means that now I'm not saying that everyone's going to get that right from the from the beginning we might have to go White Glove service we might get phone calls and emails and if we have to address those and and and take those calls and walk them through that's what we'll do that I think the goal here is maybe there's some short-term pain for some long-term um real Improvement in the burrow what was a top three issue for our residents so so I mean I'm I'm based on what I've seen you know I have some trepidation about the great can but um I think this is a go a process you know I see a committee and a lot of people have spent a lot of time and energy and effort digging in and I I feel like I want to trust the committee they did their work it looks good and I don't think that I can sit here from 50,000 fet and make it better um now if we implement it and people the phone is off the hook then yeah we need to change it but I it's like I trust the committee is is sort of where I end up okay well I I would just like to point out that there that there is a lot of contradiction in this first of all under and I I don't know if I'm referring to the particular section correctly uh section 16 5.58 that refer to it 16 five Christine are you tracking along just so you because I know you updated the sub section is a big piece brush cans are only used for brush pickup and shall not be utilized for the pickup that should be consistently throughout there are a couple areas where that's still a lot of areas and I'd like to this that's one of the questions that I think was up for discussion tonight section 16 5.6 uh two Russian leavs can be containerized follow okay under under H section 16.55 uh c section two again it says leaves can be containerized or not containerized got it councilwoman I I think that that's one of the questions that we're up for discussion today that I need clarification on is the 10 the residents have two brush cans one for leaves and one for brush or is it just a container for brush and the ordinance the way it's written now it's going to be very confusing and then what do you do mark one container leaves one container brush can only it should not be doing leaves at all so now you're in in section 16- 5.72 leaves or any other yard or vegetar vegetative waste shall not be placed in the brush can so I think a lot of this as a resident I would be confused because it seems to be contradictory and then in this new this one I don't even know if you have that she doesn't Okay the two the two lower left Corners May residents Play Place grass or yard waste in the gray can no the gray can is used specifically for brush during May through September and for brush or leaves during the Spring Cleanup right there yeah okay and then in the low lower right hand corner it says um for Rolling pickup all zones May Place their leaves at their curb line or in the gray can got it contradictory you understand why it is so contradictory also that the other one during spring and full clean up man I use the new gray can as well as Place brush and leaves in my curb line that's not exactly yeah we we'll clean it upy BS hasn't been in the conversations with Christina so this was just like a a commercial visual representation um I had one other question under prohibited material section 16- 7.1 hang on one second let I get there 16-7 do1 check check should yard waste be a prohibited material look at the defition way you yeah so you got to go back to the definition Christina what do you think clean it up and make that just say yard waste we're looking at section 16- 7.1 correct right you crossed out tree trimmings tree stumps brush leaves and left in grass clippings but prior to this when you refer to yard waste it was supposedly in violation so do you want to include that under prohibited materials we can the the other the reason that I included that in this version is because this is a different section section 16 .7 so the ordinance that we were focusing on for brush and leaf is 16-5 and we can either add in yard waist into b or we can just in that first paragraph in 16- 7.1 just refer to the new section of the brush and leaf ordinance just as trash and recyclables is in that first sentence so I think as long as there there's a reference to either one it would be consistent and Christina the the the the the reasoning behind this was you went through all of our ordinances right and you saw how much stuff was fragmented so this sought to to streamline all of that correct yes well this is in the same chapter and so tree trimmings tree stumps brush and leaves B is obviously contradictory right so are you are you going to suggest what to do with yard waste I mean what are people supposed to do with it just put it in their right trash can yeah that's the option did we have different options before that was the option before well people everything well in the past we handled it how we collected it in the spring is when you tend to get yards because people will clear out you know with beds and all that stuff so we took it to a different they when they would put it out you know their brush of the Le we we Peg it to a different vendor waste so now we're for a higher addressed because people are just going to throw it all together correct and that's where the enforcement piece comes into that's where the communication education piece read this ordinance the residence this is not every reading for a resident correct the ordinances the law and the direction and then the three pieces required right are the are the scheduling the communication and the enforcement education's part of communication so but Rich did say when it was Leaf season he didn't care when they put their leaves in the gray can or in the street correct but it conf the feedback was that it confuses it so just have them put the leaves out brush cans for the can only or for the brush only right but we were getting rid of yard waste and now we're not we weren't we were not getting were people were just throwing it in their pots well she saying as a matter of practicality we we we knew when at that time we would pick it up when it was all mixed together and take it to a different vendor and we' have to we pay for it right this all the leaves get brought to the farm right and then the brush goes to the brush grinding site um it's not meant to take on full tree so it's it's hard to compare apples to apples um because the yard we shouldn't be going and we've been paying the extra tonnage fee so um we can utilize technology you know as we know there's an app which I highly suggest everyone downloads called recycle coach that a lot of other towns use so this morning you put your address in pops up I got an alert this morning at 6:00 a.m. it's garbage collection day put your garbage out we can set it for brush and leaf and we should um BET's actually looking into she's going to have a conversation with him we're already up there we're already using it um I I loved it this morning I came out of the gym I was you're right when they morning I got to take my garbage cans out so recycle coach does that link up to that VIs gogg I still think in 16.5 you say shall be made out of plastic or rubber they are made rub can one more time I think in 65.5 shall be made out of plastic say plastic or rubber material there are even you know it's not just because there's a company called rubber B but tra cans are made out of rubber Che also say they have to everyone's required to Fashion holes it just seems like that might be sticking point for some people just because we're asking maybe some older residents to put holes in that was guidance given by DPW directly I believe right maybe variative hardware and do the holes for the customers before they get them I think okay whatever but may actually a good idea maybe yeah maybe they're not because if it holds water in a rainy day it's very heavy for our guys to pick up we're going to have a lot of workers come I'll talk to Fair could could our DPW the first time they go around not bring a drill and we could discuss that I thought you could do both hardware and and that's yeah okay she used to drill for oil I will Fair Haven hardware and I'll I'll go over toir and drill got you was sticking point at r internal meeting yes where Nick had brought up the and from a durability perspective right the water the whole nine so there's multiple different types it comes it can come with wheels without wheels um and I have one last thing please yes this is I'm sorry anyway there there should be mentioned somewhere here that like the other trash cans that we have that recycling can in the trash can you you are not allowed to see the can from Christina I know we referenced the Landscaping the Landscaping ordinance in here right we made reference to it can we make reference to that other ordinance as well that Betsy just highlighted I think it's some people just don't have enough room for all of that or if it's if I know I have a location where my trash can and recycle can are concealed and out of sight um but I don't have room for a third can um there's other places I can put it but if I wanted to keep it with my cans it's it's not obvious there's no obvious way for me to do it I'd have to figure out where else I'm going to do that and I'd probably have to have to bring somebody in to maybe tweak build something you know it's an assignment I'd have to put all that project I mean maybe right I mean the can is a third of the size of the current trash recycling kids right those are 95 gallon monsters right this is a 32 gallon smaller on yeah sure those are I don't know I'm just saying that that some people have that option to have the smaller ones it's I'm trying to point out education that there's we need to give folks a window of time not just to understand what's going to happen but to again accommodate those changes um I I know that takes time and I don't know how much time I'm GNA say in the 13 years I've been here I don't think we one summons for someone that didn't conceal their garbage cans basically fundamentally it's an educational piece once we pointed out that people would usually because they just didn't know you know and to prevent them from leaving it out 247 yeah I'm just saying there's an ordinance for it yep I'll reference it in here here's here's why I think I need some clarification and call this is to you so if we roll this out if we pass this and we roll it out but we do start fines we do like a six-month window of no fines I know that you had mentioned last time that like if we have an ordinance it's silly to put it out and not issue fines have to amend the ordinance we do moratorium on enforcement you say fines are effective as of September 1st or something so well that's way Michael and Christina you just you know if we trouble stupids and we get the mechanics right and we can buying program is figured out and know who going to drill the holes and folks know where their ganss are going to go and I how it's going to be whether they're in or they're out or you know maybe there's a moratorium during the first year of the program but what's the difference between that and giving everybody 10 days to correct the issue with no F or anything I think the difference is for I mean administratively just the exercise of going through all the the one correction the paperwork um but I also think it's like an obvious acknowledgement of the big change proposing to me and impose on everybody like for good reason but I'm just I'm suggesting think carefully about this but even if we even if we gave a moratorium we would still want code enforcement to go out and put a warning on someone's to say you're wrong on this so if he's doing the same thing anyway and you still have 10 days to fix it I don't understand why we're spending so much time on that piece of the puzzle I guess for me because I I want to serve my my friends and Neighbors in a way that isn't punitive I understand that the need for Grace notes we'll call it instead of whatever we want to call it but it's a friendly reminder the program works this way is there mind this is what this is way the way it works please do it but if you get a Grace note you don't have to fix it so you're not really teaching them how to do it the right way it's like it's like you know telling your kid you got to clean up your plate and bring it in the S they're not our kids but they're residents that need to follow an ordinance we're all living in a community together it's a community of residents that are all working together you know for this system to to to have a positive impact so to just say oh no you don't have to clean up plate and bring it to the sink I told you about it and you don't have to do it for another 6 months but I'll keep telling you about it doesn't really make any sense I just really object to the comparison of our fellow residents as being children you can you know I can use the same exact similarity with something else and not call children it's the same exact if but if we back up right real quick on the enforcement piece right and we had Brock come into to the brush and Le committee and talk about how people were blatantly ignoring the enforcement of it and willing to take the fine just to leave it out there right so so it's it's it's it's one of many pieces that has to go into it the grace period right we changed it to go from giving them an initial ordinance and we even do Grace periods with a lot of our different ordinances to give them time now right you mentioned at the last meeting how you got a fine not a fine you got a notice and then you had to reconcile after 10 days right absolutely right so well I'm maybe the only person that feels this way so shared My Views and when we roll out the tree Ordinance do you want to give people that illegally cut a tree down 10 days to you know you don't you don't want to find them for the first six months if they illegally cut their tree down let's be consistent did you have anything else um no I think we talked about there's a couple this one too um y so Christina the the the brush can is for brush only we'll take out reference to the leaves we will do alignment on 16-7 do1 with yard Wass I like the idea of you know centralizing the ordinances and not having them the locations but to BET's point I think yeah there's something we're going to have to discuss regarding that that section 16 okay I actually one more question so just to confirm if we go if we implement this and it rolls out we're finding there's like issues with certain ways that we've put it we don't have to go to the ordinance and write the ordinance we can just change this that's what you said okay yes I just want to make a recommendation going forward when we have an ordinance like this that we've received in advance I sent my feedback to jur I'm not saying I do this every time I'm not perfect but I would love for all of us to do the same so that we can get to a place where everything all the feedback is can and we're spending this meeting talking about how to move big forward rather than breaking it part live we've had plenty of time to digest this it' also be really great too I recommend everybody on the base if and and work with Teresa on reaching out to bags she has fielded dozens of calls over the last several months on this and she has a really great PS on the feedback and and I'll let you talk to her with what her assessment is of what needs to happen I would also include the legal changes so she understands them to into this with well y this is pure draft it was just to show get like some these are work in progress we'll we'll update them with Communications to make sure that they jve with what we what the intended ordinance is and can I say one last that please I just hope that the fact that it's in the calendar is not what is driving the passage of dis ordinance because even though it's in the calendar I don't think it should have been in the calendar until it was approved approved um and and just the fact that the calendar was published or ready for publication the end of December we could have put an online calendar with all of this in it it didn't have to print the way it did and I I just don't want the calendar being the driving force understood all right moving along public comment on agenda items only this is only for agenda items please stand identify Yourself by clearly stating your name and address for the record please try to observe at time will three minutes I will do my thank totally agree Bill Perkins Andro fa Haven I agree with what Tracy is trying to do in terms of whether I'm for this or against it I think that there needs to be an educational process along the right I talked to eight of my neighbors who have not a clue that this is coming down the road regardless of what you say about Resident engagement and it's in the calendar and whatever else they don't know anything about it with that said I have a protocol procedural question so is it common Public Law policy to publicly announce and distribute to all residents notification that a law has been changed before that change in law has even formally been introduced to be Ved on as a law so are you because the calendar was put out there calendar put out calendar says this is it this is fact it is a can you need to have the can blah blah blah blah blah we talked about it being a proposal it's not a proposal the council is going to do it law no didn't say it was law because the ordinance has not been introduced correct procedurally it shouldn't have been in the calendar until it was law that's not intention one under the bridge of this point I'll let you keep going can I just address that real quick while the town may have until May to actually pass the change in the brush ordinance it was premature to be notifying people that the change is officially made already the legal process to make and change an ordinance I understand to be quite clear it ordinance must be publicly introduced you must solicit public comment and then and only then can you vote on approving the ordinance what we have done here quite frankly is very disingenuous the ordinance hasn't even been officially introduced let alone voted on yet notification has been disseminated to everyone that it is in fact the law actions like this only in skill and re reinforce a level of distrust for government and actually rub people's faces in the notion that their voices don't matter government is doing what they want to do regard regard this it's very disappointing to me so I think practically speaking it's fair to say that the ordinance this ordinance and our prior ordinance says that we set the schedule annually and as a matter of course the governing body in the fall prior to usually the October November meeting approved the brush and leaf schedule we've changed the months through the years and I'm not talking about the schedule we're saying we can now it's necessary but my point is that the ordinance has that flexibility in it and you know we didn't do this in the dark night we we knew we were publishing the calendar and you know we put it out there either the Cal was going to be wrong or blank and we made a judgment call the Judgment call is not legality it's not about the the calar botom of the calendar I forget what month it is but it says subject to change because we're going to negotiate a contract with the new cner that saying verbage some similar to that should could have said we're considering a change in the ordinance or stay tuned for more information so if we put that disclaimer on the back of the calendar you feel much better about the way that we operate as a government yes that one yes next next time we'll be sure to put that on that's my point because that's very flipping response that's not next time no I'm saying that there's a public procedure for a reason that why didn't we just put up no signs on on fa Haven Road tonight we don't we have to wait for the ordinance we because we didn't have to print a calendar in January that listed all the spots we were going to put parking LS if we did we probably we probably would have put that up there because it was anticipated that it probably was then you could have said that in the calendar it's antip and I just addressed that next time we'll take that into account we will but we in this situation it is a very it is a very fine line we have to if we don't put it in there then we haven't shared at all what our potential schedule is going to be with our residents we could have went with last year's schedule and then if we rolled out this if we roll out this schedule bill then then then we're going to have much more confusion we're going to have mass confus conf usion amongst everyone it did seem at the time like there was support on the de for passing this new brush and leaf words it did so they made a judgment call at the time as far as what to put in the calendar I'm not saying that your feedback is not warranted but it's it's kind of a lose lose when it comes to the calendar and based on the timeline of what we were trying to it was I have another question sure so apparently everyone on the council is in favor of an new brush pan which is okay okay but however how many other than c labara knows what the brush canning looks like how many of you have seen this actual brush caning my question is how big we all know it's gray but how big is the can so I just heard tonight for the first time and I've been attuned to this thing as how big the brush can is so it's 3 only only 32 gallons you make you make it sound like that's a lot you saying it's an increase in service but I could fill up my whole front yard my whole curb line with brush now I have two two opportunities to fill up a 32 gallon can you have that what do you mean you have two opportunities you to pick it up twice a month so I can fill up my Can twice whereas I could filled up my whole 80 feet of front yard once a mon yes but a whole you still do that in the fall and the spring yes but not in May June July or sep that's this thing is a little bit of spin on this that it's an increase but nobody's looking at the downside of it if I'm not home in March or April whenever they put out my brush that's why I said in my letter I'm screwed because now I have to put it in a can I get I get four huge piles of brush in my backyard already waiting for the time that I can put it out you they're not going to you have other options to you though if you're not home you can hire a landscaper they can put your brush out for you Bill and and and the down the true downside is the brush and leaf schedule that we have now that's the downside because it's been a disaster and that's why we got to where we're at that's why we pick a residents that are peers of ours to study this thing and try and come up with something that's going to benefit all the residents of Fair Haven now are we going to get it perfect I don't think so I think we're going to be back in here discussing something that we need to tweak or we need to improve but that's part of the process that that's great and tweaking is great but if a year from now after I lay out the money and build the fence to screen my garbage can you say oh we're not going to do the can anymore we're going to go back to the way it want that's a yeah but that that's not the way to go into it we should be going into it that this is the plan we're going to stick to it and maybe it just have to be tweaked but we shouldn't be going into it that oh well if we have to scrap it that's it is what it is that's any order we've done in here we we've been very clear that we that's not it's not the you're not comparing apples and apples the pass we take the park down okay well what else a tree ordinance we do a tree ordinance and then we don't like the tree ordinance we go back to the old one we do land use laws we don't like the land use laws we go back to the somebody build a house and then tell them they got to take the house down I mean that's building house buing a great garbage can it's a $25 gray garbage can bill I also wanted to know know where when there's going to be a specification on what this garbage can is because as I understand it based on the public procurement law we cannot make it a proprietary item correct yes so we can't say that bu Hardware you have to get it from even though 99.9% go Baran hardware store and buy it that's fine but you have to give people the option we're not going to publicly B this correct let we first we first went over the specs back in October in the public forum right it's been disseminated and everything Fair Haven Hardware is merely a means of a potential to get it because they're going to give us a very advantageous cost but by no means do not need to go there we don't make it brand specific we worked with where she is anymore we worked with Christina to specifically articulate to make sure that it made the most sense I'm here there's no brand specific it's just basically the gallons the material rubber or plastic and or does it have to have a cover it does it not have to have a cover how much weight can hold is there a limit how many pounds I can put in this thing does it have to have a lid on it does it not have to have a lid it does not have to have a lid and it could be up to 32 gallons 32 gallons is the can but how much does it have to it we I don't think we specified that there's only so much you can put in it then my last question was how much time because I talked to my neighbors and they have no idea that they physically have physically have to go out and purchase this can they think it's going to be like the other cans that they have where somebody magically delivers it to their driveway and they have this can so now they physically have to go out and get this can when they turn to the May page in the calendar and it says all of a sudden your brush has to be in a can how much time 10 days we're giving them 10 days if they don't have the can I mean is that you seem to think 10 days is enough I I I think that people need more than 10 days to acquire the can we're going to have two and a half months but people to May and they get a the last meeting there was less than that you're saying this is all been public I agree it's public forum it's all been disseminated public we haven't out yet this this is going to go out but we and technically that shouldn't go out until the ordinance has passed it won no so when the ordinance has passed and it's already feary you you think but to answer your question you think that if someone gets a if if once we've sent this out right and then we roll out a new schedule someone gets a summons because they do it the wrong way right you think that 10 days isn't enough time for someone to go get a garbage can no well why I'm saying because people work they have jobs they not I I don't agree for a number of reasons but I I don't think that I happen to agree with Tracy that I think there should be a roll out to this as a as a totally new this is a totally new program that obviously the council has decided and had decided that they were going to implement I stood up in this meeting in December on the December 18th meeting and asked questions about this can and then go home and find this in my mailbox two weeks later that says it's it's a done deal but the council is saying it's proposed I'm here you realize and Drew will even tell you I've been the can but but I'm I'm for the entire thing because I think it's going to improve what we're doing but you realize you can go on Amazon Prime right now and order a can it'll be here tomorrow right so why is 10 days not enough time for someone to get a can I'm not I'm not understanding that I don't understand it I think you have to give people time you have can to the and notion just for the record the notion because that that becomes a whole other issue but the notion that we're not enforcing the concealing of the garbage can now so therefore if we have another can added to the nised I said we nevered a summons because generally speaking when we go to a resident we tell them they're compliant okay but I I think we should be compliant we should if we have an another can we need to make sure that it's not visible we don't want it to look like sh just so we're clear about the timeline we will go if the council approves we will introduce it on February 26 and then I believe we would uh vote on March 11 I'm sure we'll have our Communications in good shaped by that time so what level what percentage of completion would you say these are I think they're about yeah 80 90% they're I I think they're in pretty good shape couple we have to do but I don't think it's going to take that long at all have we um have we I know at one point when I was involved we were talking about um sort of test groups small test groups so we can get feedback from resu coming in cold you know because I that's what I believe our last Council delli had volunteered to show this to some people as the councilman ho and and I believe that they will be bringing that feedback back to our next uh Communications it's a good idea and with the ordinance being introduced that can place it in the buzz and say please be advised this hearing an adoption is on the state so people can I would make changes first i' send this send this to bill tomorrow too but and I mean it let him give feedback on what he sees and it sounds like he's talking to a lot of neighbors that and let him show it to them too give us feedback how we can improve the communication LS anyone else on agenda items yes come up marty3 answer I would just say and I know there's been a lot of work devoted to trying to fix something that we all think is broken but I also have to say I agree with a lot of what Bill said I agree with Tracy look at it from you've devoted so much time and energy to this but nobody out this side of the day knows really what's going on with them and there have been changes along the way as well so just keep in mind that you don't want people to perceive this as being punitive you want them to see this as a benefit so how do you self benefit and that's what I would say is the most important thing in to avoid getting the push back that I'm starting to hear too like bill is so just from my side on over here try to present it to be as beneficial as possible as educational as possible as much time as possible and look at it as though you've never seen it before and now it's coming to your house can I talk about benefit as the environmental commission LS on one of the main things that you talk about is storm water and flooding and having debris in the streets clogs the sewers and having it in the can instead will hope so I don't want to speak for the environmental commission but it is a major topic we talk a lot about um it's very frustrating it's hard to solve the problem this I think will help and I'm just thrwing this out there but when we rolled out the bulk pickup how did we do that and was that successful maybe that's something we can just look at because we made a big change by we made a big change and we did the same thing we we you know notified the residents and sent out you know information and it you know we got around that was an ordinance that we there is a uh Marty there's a section here which I'm sure we can improve why the new brush and leaf pickup schedule it's at actually at the top of the Q&A it gets into the U nuts and bolts a little bit of why we're doing it so we'll take a look at and see if we can even further improve it you anyone else I this is this is a problem I mean I know I'm bad and it maybe takes two days after pickup before someone puts more stuff out on the curb so it's constantly there are constantly files people are coming down to the boat ramp and everybody's driving leaving down the road so and I I don't know if it's landscap I mean it is the person's responsibility to tell their landscapers when to put stuff out May I do even though I don't really put much out which is what I also wanted to bring up as an educational piece I mean you can leave it's not a crisis if you have leaves and sticks in your yard I mean it's really not me like it I think we're obsessed or maybe I used to be I'm not anymore with this neatness but if people just put a bed around the edge of their yard they could put their leaves over there and there sticks after storm and wait it out if they need to get rid of them or just let it break down and save the DPW a lot of time and effort I mean there is so much benefit to leaving that natural nutrient Rich stuff from the trees in our y um and if we just I mean you know obviously neatness is you know want to look nice but it is an option I mean I have a leave the Le signs that that I to put up and it's it's a it's just definitely part of the educational piece B that's really helpful because councilman de and I are going to put a letter together to accompany all of this when it gets sent out and I think that that's a important that thank you and also coordinating with some of the Committees and commissions like the environmental commission and the Green Team especially the Green Team and getting this message out and maybe it's the green team who could make recommendations on like leaving leaves and stuff like that online yeah I don't one of those already she has one I think you know mulching them you leading your grass I I can tell you my soil is better my PL are soier because I that so thank you thank you anyone else only no Alison anyone was someone we're good hi Ru good evening everybody sit back and take a deep breath this whole thing is unnecessary for decades the leaves have been being picked up you put them at the curb and they disappear when the DP had time and that was pretty regular because the people who worked for the DPW a lot of them were lived in town and they had a dog in the fight as it were they they wanted the town to look good now bear in mind the leaves at the curb haven't killed anybody and frankly I don't think they caused that much of a problem for clogging the sewers and things like that I know when I put mine out I put a I put them out at least a foot from the curb so that the water can flow between the curb and the leaves the problem I see with this Leaf thing is that the Department of Public Works and the engineer if they sat down and actually used their training and knowledge with the fact that mother nature drops leaves in the fall and Gardens have to be cleaned in the spring could work out a way to do this now if they're going to drive down the street and empty the cans they can drive down the street and pick up the stuff at the curb no cans involved we are now all this time the pickup has been included in our taxes now we have to pay $25 extra just to have something done that was done inclusive before the seniors are going to find it difficult I don't think they have been given enough consideration in this thing and the second part other than the DPW getting their act together and actually looking at this is that I don't know how many times I've put my leaves out at the required time and they weren't picked up for a week or two which means they've got to adhere to their schedule too the second part is that the police department seems to feel it is beneath their dignity to issue leaf and brush summonses because there hasn't been that much enforcement and it I when I have mentioned this to different people in Authority it's been sort of a shoulder shrug and that's exactly what it is it's a lack of coordination with schedules and enforcement this whole thing is not necessary thank you Ruth yes Alison is there anyone else no all right uh moving along we are at approval of minutes January 22nd 2024 regular meeting an executive session uh do I have a motion to approve motion second Alison I please have a roll call Paul yes yes yes yes yeah a yes thank you uh old business hearing an adoption order number 20241 supplement chapter 7 traffic sections 14 15 and 21 um do I have a motion to open the hearing motion second all in favor I anyone opposed is there anyone in the public that wants to comment on this uh okay this is the hearing and adoption on the on the on the street signs down Fair Heaven Road I just have one question for chief I know that there was a a question I had about signs and the frequency of signs how how many signs are going to be required uh whatever the m is IG every 50 feet would be would be at every house yeah you know like have stop sign so there be nothing sign there and but they they try can put them on the property line so you know the property line 60 going put on the property and we have two or three properties well is there any way we can Bank them so that we don't need so many or is that minimum required by law have I spoke to Rich today and and I haven't had a chance to spoke to Chief yet but what we thought would be best is that the traffic safety officer coordinated the layout of the signage with uh the public works and we also have to put a line item we have to up our budget signs are not cheap so we're gonna need to get idea of how many signs when they come up their plan not make sure there's enough money in the what we do you know we'll do our very best to put them at so pretty much every that proper there probably at least 80 I will have to say when you have a 2hour minimum you're going to have to mark titles that's enfor please help to come around sh tires to to to make sure that people are parking for two hours I have the information thank you anyone else have any comments on this do I have a motion to close motion second all in favor anyone opposed uh do I have a motion to approve or deny whatever motion to approve second second Alison may please have a roll call call yes Miss yes yes yes yes yes Paul yes thank you moving along Council committee reports uh Finance please fire and OEM B facilities councilman Mar Bara thanks mayor um next finance committee meeting 09 fed please fire OEM we'll have the follow up of the interviews um at the next governing body meeting we'll talk about it further in executive session um um burrow facilities um don't forget that the color selection and the roof selection for the Community Center is up in Teresa's office please take a look at it um we'll be looking at the end of this month to make a recommendation so we can start the supply chain ordering process for that um we got larger roof samples they came in which is great remember take them outside in the natural light um DPW we had a a small groundbreaking um on the 29th um we were successfully able to do the door knocking um to the 30 residential homes give or take around the DPW site um I'm just looking um we're looking to um use the same software that we are with the PD and Community Center did did you s my email on that today no okay maybe maybe okay um we'll come back to it it's all part of the soft cost and everything we built um on the PD and Community Center we just want to take a minute here um so obviously you have the change order guidance um the project is on schedule um if not slightly ahead just to correct the um the slab is being going to be poured for both facilities the PD and the community center this week um and what we've been gearing up for and I'm going to ask Teresa to P out to all governing body members is the steel delivery remember has to take place through the Third Street and come down the park um we've requested the logistics plan the map of how they're getting here from out of town it's it's it's the documentation is is excruciating so we'll forward it out um send that out already or I just send it to the committee I think you just sent it to the committee okay we'll send out to the government body um we'll be communicating with the public they will not be delivering the steel before 9 or after two so that there's no possibility of impacting the kids um Chief I don't I think oh he's back there um Chief will have his officers uh supporting um taking every you know precaution that we need with this this this gives me heartburn um just because it's it's a deviation and we're going across the Third Street Trail B's been great we make sure the Third Street Third Street Trail excuse me yeah yeah Off Third Street Community Center uh they will restore it uh they're going to camera the infrastructure to make sure that none of the drywalls there get damage they're going above board um but you know big there U moving on B Centennial Hall we had our first uh stakeholder meing on the 25th which went fantastic um we kind of out line uh a four-part component plan um broken down into um the Ada upgrades um this punch list um historical maintenance and then potential further um design um the stakeholder group is made up of all key stakeholders across um the town the Committees store commissions Etc um we're looking to have Sher Sparrow our CTE um she's coming on Thursday uh to do um a walk through to DPW site to make sure that Hall is very familiar with the Landscaping plan for DPW and the trees that are coming out everything uh she also has a tree permit and as an economies of scale um we wanted her to do an assessment of the landscaping around bending Hall um it's part of you know the aspects of just really bringing Vice attendent Hall back um so probably send out the component plan yeah I think she'll be here this Thursday we got a finalize time um so so we'll probably send out the component plan just so everybody can take a look at it um slow and steady wins the race with the exception of the 88 Grant which we've already provided guidance we need to get that out to bid soonest that it can get done um soonest because the mama County came back and said hey like if it's not done by the state you need you can have a onetime extension but it's only one time extension we're getting that extension by way yeah L the CD cdbg grant for are we requesting the extension yes I um so just two takeaways for everybody please take a look at the color selection upstairs and the roof tiles we want to decide that on the 26th meeting um and be on the lookout for the component plan for BenTen Hall as well as the um steel delivery plan any questions comments shoot it back um but that's everything that I have unless there's any questions recording that extension there's a resolution on Ton's agenda yeah beautiful any other questions comments thank you thank you CH barara moving along Personnel burrow Communications community outreach coun and Parks and Recreation councilman home sure start with Personnel um the burrow administrator uh search continues I'm going to give everybody an update more uh Deep dive update tonight in executive session um but we're making great progress and so happy to share the detail with that U police Dre already mentioned um DPW we're going to be reviewing by rich and Nick are already reviewing resumes for a couple of the open positions um and then we're finalizing a job description for our new CF and hope to have that host for the next couple weeks um parks and wreck just two quick updates uh one being I think I mentioned the last meeting that PTA had mentioned they're willing to at least explore the funding of new playground equipment we did get an updated quote on a Gaga pit it blew my mind um the cost of a Gaga pit but anyway um we have that we have that uh quote now we're going to uh meet tomorrow night as a committee um hope to move forward with PTA funding some more to come but it looks like it's going to be successful where would that goit Sig m park park that'll have to come back here before so we can see where and what it is right okay well yeah yes and DJ and Rich have already gone and and scoped out the area scoped out the area we got the quote the PT Bo went with them um yes yeah he had a meeting in marter park with Board of Ed PTA and yeah just so I'm saying something that makes sense I'm assuming improvements in public plans get signed off here at Council whether something is officials a resolution is certainly you know Christ's update if everyone's okay with that I know I met with Rich and and DJ today on a bunch of items and I they are going to follow back up again and go back out to make sure that they are locked and loaded now that they have the actual design of the go pit from the vendor back out I want to stress because it's not about the I I want a procedure that we stick to and whether it's somebody who wants to do a Garo pit or race car well this a unusual so that the governing that's okay it's still public land I understand but ordinarily the procedure is quite clear I would put a resolution for capital expenditure on the agenda the government approve it in this case since it's being funded elsewhere we would have to obviously I'll defer to the governing body but if we we could do a motion in a second off of you know Kristen you know and and then just move forward with the project you know as under workshop and just way yeah we can do certainly do it that way and we can send out the the visuals too we have that's correct beautiful expensive very expensive take a guess what take a guess yeah 20 grand you said 1500 yeah that's 4,000 you see my1 see it 17,1 oh man, for G has very nice warranty though I'll give it that P P I did he's a um last quick update the committee voted at the last meeting to have two temporary basketball hoops installed um this summer on the tennis courts during uh the summer W programs that this will not disturb play um outside of Camp hours but because part of the camp is going to be moving to fa Haven Fields we're going to have two temporary backb hement there a little unclear on are they rolling them out every day rolling them in every day know what follow DJ said I want to I'm serious when you know I'm a big basketball guy I want to make sure that there's no insurance risk there of these Topp Ling they're not in the right place or something like that horable Hoops they need to be you know I think filled with sand and water you got you got a count teenage counselor not paying ATT kid yeah I'm equally concerned about people that are playing tennis if they're still in there running into them or something running fence no no no they oh I see what you're saying be on they' be on the T Courts at Fair Fields correct oh isn't that a joint between the high school and it it doesn't interrupt their schedule it wouldn't interrupt Court only during Camp hours which you're like what 9 to 11 or where does the basket go when it's not Camp hours and what are they G do they take down the Nets good question I think they why don't we take it away send our questions maybe and then you guys send me your questions but I have he addressed that at the meeting he said one one one hoop on either side of the Nets so it's not actually a game it's more for practice three three why can't they go to mcarter or Sportsman's field um well because the camp for the older kids is going to be held at Fair field sickles sickles is already going to be there but aren't they moving there because they used to play at the youth center yes correct so then why if they're fairing Fields why they used to go to the youth are they oh they used to now they be fairing Fields because they the whole Camp used to be at the CER now it's not there the younger kids are always at sick they're gonna stay there yeah this is just one time adjustment for the um we'll come back on some more details that's next meeting tomorrow night um and then Communications uh not much more to add other than the leral work work on I'm a big push for this recycle coach app um and I do not own it but it's pretty light it is also something people have to op into yeah I'm G download the app right um and that's it when I told I told you guys this but I think with the app the more we opt into it we can get points with the sustainable Jersey too for the grant there's also a free version and there's a paid version I have works right moving along planning board Council thank you mayor um I don't have any updates um we haven't had a meeting since my last update on reorganization meeting which was held in January our next meeting will be February 20th and hopefully I will have something to report after that thank you uh moving along engineering DPW and Zoning Board of adjustment councilwoman CL thank you mayor um first a big shout out and a not atude to our DPW crew that has transitioned the whole of our DPW operations to offside to the concession build um it was a a significant undertaking during weather events and you know the normal business so um just when you see them if you see them just express some gratitude they're working hard um on micro projects they the projects are underway and as they have been um we can anticipate storm drunk Storm drink them out in the falling order we can for Smith from Colonial Foreman first followed by Forman from Smith H hunting hands to the outfall of Milwood oh not on here not on it's what I sent you okay um mcarter and Hendrickson the stream Crossings and and the drain drainage line between okan and Harrison this will be significant we don't know what we'll find but that information will come back to engineering dkw and we will report out what we are able to quantify um teres can you update us on Street lamps I know we were we put it out bid have we gotten some responses well they'll submit their bids for the bill you know when is that's going to be the eth right this th and then and then we'll open I think 10: a.m. and then we'll look to have the bids reviewed and the recommendation made and make the award of the next uh so the next meeting will be able yes some of us are very excited about this PR not another one comes back um also I would like to be able to update us on car pond and I know I tried to tag up with you earlier can you give us any do you do we have anything on the horizon that we can report out at this time regarding future hyr raking I think it's a a discussion that that the governing body needs to have um I think you need to decide whether or not you're going to look to do a second round of Hydra raking we have a very narrow window for that because we'd have to do it prior to the fish spawning date which is set by DP and I off the top of my head I think that's end of April um we could do um you know we certainly could uh ask for quotes again and do a second round um I had written you know I met today with Rich and DJ and I thought you know we probably follow up by putting that on a workshop agenda probably next agenda yeah I I I think um I don't want to get ahead of the process um but I know we'll also because it needs to be said um restoration of the site in the vicinity of the equipment would be we talked about that today um actually our goal is to we needed to see what the governing body was going to do as far as that goes um DJ's concern was uh the fishing derby which is June 1st um and I assured him that regardless of whether we did second round to of hydro raking we need to be done way before June 1st and and in and out restoration clean that up at the same time okay so more on that uh zoning Ford held its first meeting the first uh what is it Thursday in in um Tuesday sorry in February they're reviewing an application Thursday it's it was yeah a first Thursday first Thursday thanks that's um they're reviewing an application before U for the former PNC some folks may know where that is it's the W story brick building just north of fio Court neighborhood um little note just to say great applicant local person who wants to make the right thing happen there and a sensitive neighborhood that's under a lot of pressure from other places and I can see our zoning board working really hard to uh address all the concerns um the historic preservation commission had its reorganization meeting will be meeting in February 27th the grants committee has is meeting on February 19th and we have a lot of Grants to review um we're going to attempt to do our executive summar for this body um during the meeting and kind of roll them out for you as quickly as we can sometimes the deadlines are just like immediately upon us but our it'll be our goal to get them before this body as quickly as we can um produce the summaries for you and again if the my colleagues if you haven't had a chance to review the affordable housing summary that Teresa put together for us few weeks back now um it's worth picking a look at just gives a good frame of reference and the Arc of events and broughts to where we are now um as things may continue to Shi it's good to know how we got to where we are um a followup on that Tracy just because you mentioned it the legislation that's before uh you know the state legislature on on the affordable housing that we've gone back and forth on and giving you updates on you know for Mike Edwards you know um I was speaking with a colleague today and and you know there's really going to be a a solid push because they're looking to actually change um part legislation they're going to change our our numbers and and look to take 25% of our real development uh numbers and and put them make us designate areas of Redevelopment for that and you know oh interesting you know and that that's a that's a new wrinkle that just just recently came to people's attention so um you know I I'll see I'm sure we'll get something from Mike 's office but I would encourage the governing body members to um reach out to their uh Representatives Representatives essentially they be resolving COA right right and revamping and making sure that there's more fair housing um options in every town throughout the state of New Jersey not just uh urban areas so and JM is working at a synopsis too um and hopefully the next week or so some of this stuff will become uh a little easier to digest in a public format and uh but I do think it's important that you you engage and and because this this will impact a lot of towns and inclusive Fair Haven just because we're built out doesn't mean that um know it it won't impact us we still have the overlight good we do but I think that I I think the part of this in the even with the overlay zones there's some elimination of Builder remedy so if you if if you even if if something's not in an overlay Zone if someone could partiel together a few properties you could see a developer coming in and making the arguments to the courts that this is a perfect place for high density housing well no COA there's no courts it's an administrative mechanism now it's not judicial no that's COA was you know administrative then the new legislation it will all go through the courts and the court Masters that's so how does the Redevelopment legislation just 30 more seconds on this mayor if we could true um how did the how did the Redevelopment legislation dtail with what you were talking about you mean yeah it's that's something I just became aware of today somebody pointed out to me there there this is legislation that they're tweaking on an ongoing basis so um you know once we have further details you know as they become available to me I'll share them with you okay it's hard to read a full bill so usually we'll wait till a Professional Organization or our professionals do a synopsis of it then give it to you in something that's a little easier to digest and to speak to your representatives about and when they found they found a shortage they believe through a study that there's a shortage of 200,000 affordable housing units throughout the state of New Jersy that's why this came about so they believe that they need to create 200,000 housing opportunities that are affordable to people throughout the state of New Jersey they being the state the legislature single at Burlington County so when do you anticipate us having this summary um hard to say like I said I I'll wait and see what comes across my desk and and you know pass it on to you I'm not writing the summary you know it'll come to either one of it'll either come from Mike Edward's office it'll come from uh legal muncipalities or some combin mpal management association some combination thereof okay thank you hey mayor just one quick anecdote on micro projects so Forman Colonial Court I'm looking at Fergus um one of the next steps was Forman and Smith remember how that um infrastructure so bet that should be happening in two weeks two weeks or so so please be eyes in the ears with water and stuff and let us know but we're excited about that yeah thank you all right uh moving along consent agenda resolutions 202 24-48 through 54 uh before I ask for a motion does anyone want to separate anything on the consent agenda any comments or questions on anything on the consent agenda uh a small request or a request for a small moment of education on 51 the sale of B participation notes if there there obviously there's a beneficial timing or something how the decision that made to do it now is the project driving it or is it Mark uh it's actually driven by m County Improvement Authority that's who get through and they set the timing up we if you recall we we we sold notes last March we to roll those notes again and we're issuing additional debt for other projects that have authorized for the burrow um and the timing is such that we'll be happen the closings will happen again in March and that was designed to be most advantageous to those who are they go out once a year the approvement authority and and what's most advantageous uh you know you speak the Sy I mean the committee is that we get the benefit of their AAA Bond rating and the fact that they're selling a a large s of notes so we're going to get a better price than if we try to sell notes on our own you want to add anything that's all accurate big deals get more more attraction in the market uh investors won't look at small ones it's not worth their time and the rating is higher uh and it's very typic difficult for bands to come every year on a cycle so I I'll watch our sale live just because because because they will um but it expect it will go very well the other thing I'll pass around too just so you guys have it is um when we were doing all of the financing last year and cost avoidance right over 12 million and whatnot we looked at the schedule of when we would issue and when we would incur the costs when the resident would incur the cost that we have that entire breakdown so I'll resurrect that out and I'll send it to both of you so you have it because you can see when we did you know mcia when it's going to be when we're going to be you know anticipating note sales first interest payment Etc so I'll get that over to you guys um you know this week so you can digest it comments questions you want to have a motion motion second Alison may I please have a roll call yes yes she just out yes yes yes than you Department reports 2023 year end January 2024 do I have a motion to accept the reports as submitted motion with thank you second all in favor I anyone opposed thank you moving along good to the burrow please stand identify Yourself by clearly stating your name and address for the record please try to observe a time limit of three minutes thank you hi Carn Ferguson seven Colonial Port um I have a question that I'd like to direct to the council members who have been zoning board Lea zones uh and also Mr Sol um it involves one of the bur's ordinances would it be okay if I gave you a copy of it so you could look at it while I ask the question I love that did you come prepared or no thanks have an extra one I did thank you thank you okay uh you as you know we have a fence around our backyard it's been there for 20 plus years way before we ever own the property the fence fell into disrepair we replaced it in the exact same location before doing that we consulted the borrow website and the B's ordinances we read the ordinance that you have in front of you 30-7 25A as we have earlier discussed this ordinance is terribly out of date and it requires the resident to do a procedure that hasn't existed in years so we did exactly what ordinance 37307 25A says to do we called the Construction office we tried to pay $10 and secure a fence permit we were told that the Construction office no longer does permits for Fair Haven um as we've discussed the procedure in the ordinance is from before shared services being established um we later got a code violation that says we violated ordinance 30-7 25. is it legal to say that we violated that ordinance I you know I I don't have the whole timeline in front of me but first of all the Construction office they they know that that all ordinances that I mean all permits that related to penson are from zoning the instruction office doesn't issue any permits unless they see zoning first so I I can't fathom that you would have called the Construction office and they would have told you that you need to go to the zoning office than that's what I said is what they told me they said don't has it been adjudicated your complaint your VI a I'm not sure what that means but I'm exposed up in court has it resulted still open so it's still open so unfortunately I can't talk about it because it could be potential litigation however I will speak to you afterwards okay um maybe Let space tomorrow about some things regarding your offense application okay um and certainly we would like to know like what we should have done differently that we didn't [Music] do and then there are the second two matters which you can see in our code violation letter um you know they say that we have a tall solid fence on our corner lot at the edge of our backyard um I would point out that if you ride around Fair Haven it is easy to find many fences on Corner lots that likeor have a tall solid fence at the edge um you know those fences and our fence are not in compliance with the items B and C um I would hope that the intention is to apply this law evenly and fairly and that we wouldn't get a code violation that these other people didn't get so I think Mr soille has answered my question but if anyone has anything to add you mind forward me the um what they sent you as far as the batement options just so I have all the information I think it's in the back of that letter no there s there's in Clos copy of the survey the [Music] options right it says you have the option of moving as shown by the green highlight on the enclosed copy of your survey to I'm looking for the actual survey that highlights it so you just give me a that'd be great thank you um so the violation description it it just something struck me it does say that residents living adjacent of public property used for Waterfront access may have the height requirement waved so that's saying that anyone who's living near access to public to the water can have it waved but why is that that seems to be nicer looking than her looking at the back of acne so why is it waved in that instance but not for people who live like looking to tell in 2002 um you know I can tell you that that's what I asked for last February that the legislation contemplates a condition yes that would necessitate the residents need for an exemption yes because they have two front yards and one abing something that would impinge on their yeah they privacy um so that is what I proposed last Fe February was that that ordinance had an opening where we could just add or a shopping center I mean I see I do see an argument for that because knowing that property well I walk there every single day there is nothing blocking them from the back of the Acme and it's maybe 10 or 15 feet from the curb line so they're not far away from Acme at all so and it would only be a couple of people in town and I know you had mentioned last time why would we change it for one person but it's only them who's being harmed by the fence no one else by not being able to that's why you go to the Z board and get the exam because you can't do it it's called spot zoning you can't just you know focus on one area it has to be zoning that's consistent throughout the B process is expensive that's where it comes back and you guys also consulted the zoning board back in February March and they wrote back and said like yes there should be an easier process yeah to consult with the zoning board on fence members and nothing has changed there so one cure would be to amend the ordinance to add shopping center with that no securing it based on the singular situation that's commcial commercially used and yes yes I'm not saying shopping center but commercially used because there aren't that many buildings but it is negatively impacting the resident and not her having a high fence is not negatively impacting any other resident well the real cur would have taken place at the planning board during a site plan review where the required landscape offer would have gone in on the western edge of the commercial property it's not shouldn't be your still probably one fence was there a problem the location of the fence well it's supposed to be 30t from in the right right which I understand we can get a license from the burrow um the Burrow's going well the burrow is going to steer away from issuing a license the liability is just there also a license is a privilege as opposed to over there's over drain pipes that Rich has already pulled the survey and the our maps for to show that it's in the RightWay there we have draining Parts I will say that has been in the right away for over years let land use let Betsy ey on land use take this away I also want to do some follow up on sdl um those 20 years you also haven't found a governing body willing to work on the drainage like we are right now too sure so we'll take it okay I WR and I'll talk to Mr soore yes thank you thank you very much thank you anyone else go to the burrow Alison Ruth Ruth you there I didn't raise my hand it's an error okay well we want to say hi to you anyway any else I have a the um I don't know some some folks might be aware that salt the beautiful in our historic shopping district is closing its doors and carrying them um salt has a design center in the C building it has a very successful um Design Studio but it's um Brooks and mortar presence in Fair Haven was really a wonderful asset um was it's a real loss that they're closing their doors for a lot of reasons but I get to the point um I don't know how many people knew about that but it seems that we have trouble retaining beautifully well-run successful businesses but we have no trouble retaining um what seem to be buildings that are largely unoccupied uh there's there's several in my two-hour conversation with Sarah who's the owner she's a very capable business woman she runs a very successful business um she spent the last 18 months very focused on strategies to help maintain her Showroom on River Road in very even um incredibly smart she didn't think of any I couldn't think of anything that she didn't try um she tried cross marketing she tried all sorts of promotional things she collaborated with other like-minded businesses the the fact of the matter is that those dead spaces we'll just call them the buildings that are there but nobody's home are a really buing back our business district um and I don't know what anybody thinks about this but I consider this to be a pretty important piece of um um you know what we can do to help make the business district stronger thrive get least removed roadblocks and hotels so I wanted to raise it tonight cu the doors at Salt are going to close and it seems to be a moment a moment when we might want to commit to some strategy we start to look at what we could do if we want to do anything you you have suggestions well yeah I have several suggestions um on the top of my head we could Michael and I can make it our business district as done and I can make a trip to reach out to some of folks I know at DCA they'll get some programs and resources that might be available um I think we can look at the zoning there what are the things are holding with that I think that there's probably some practical things that we can try that maybe we want to talk to our BR staff about I think some the application process has come up multiple times that's arduous so that would be somewhere area we could really look at the application process and obviously is there another property besides salt that like you know is the one that's right down can you picture across from the bookstore it's um is it next to PO yeah the Crystal Store Crystal that building actually and then the blue one across from and it's up there I'm not picking on anybody's building I'm not and but I've sent people to that property owner with the blue building across from Boer Dew and they're not in Fair Haven but they're not far but I I think it would be really good to have a good database of our property owners to begin to have a conversation with them a lot of our commercial property owners are local folks and they care and they want to do the right thing and they want to see the right thing happen and I think collectively we all have a sense of what that right thing looks like it's traditional Main Street you know we all have an idea in our but if we were undertak Vision plan and get that together that would inform everything we need to do after that from a regulatory level meaning adjustments to zoning to retail recruitment strategies design guidelines everything is an extension of that one planning piece of planning work the according to our documents remains incomplete since 2005 I me it's just been waiting for us to take care of it so I mean to start I know what you mean by being complet since 2005 but well as this a few things but um to start if the council's comfortable you know like Michael and I get into it and start to outreach to some places where we know there's resources to help small town Lo streets that to me is DCA listen M Michael's the driving Le on the business district if she if she wants you know to go in that direction with your assistance I would then then and you want to bring some uh tools back to the council that you think can benefit the town I'm sure we're all going to be welcoming okay Teresa I have a question on the subject while we're on the subject of businesses in town has has there been a response about the gas station I know they were issued a letter which gas station the existing one or the empty Cod um because they they decommissioned the air right hose and you know I do know that I think the last I have to look the last correspondence we got from their attorney about you know going to the planning board was as far as I'm concerned the last official correspondence we got but responded about putting in screening and and Greenery I mean all that was supposed to be filled in when they took out the old Stu well first of all I I don't know I I don't know if they actually when you gave them permission to take down the trees I'd have to go back and the tree permit you know they didn't come before the planning board so all that screening you're talking about or all that site plan work you're talking about there was nothing that was approved to go back and check against you know they were basically they were basically replacing what was there prior given full notice from Nick and I'm sure I shared this with everyone his letter I don't have it in front of me that they could not expand upon that for argument sake add diesel or add something else that they didn't have until they went back to the board which they got an attorney and they were supposed to be putting together the application um and I do know that their attorney did either the local attorney did tell us that that was a work in progress but um I haven't se official other than that and I do know when they went back and told them I mean even the lights which it's a perfect example they had lighting there before but you could make the argument that you know lumens and things like that are something that the planning board looked into you know they they didn't add extra lighting they just you know they dialed it up well and I can't say whether they dialed it up or whether it's more direct or indirect because because I didn't get into the details of that I'm just saying these are site plan issues the planning board generally deals with but they had every right as an existing use to upgrade what was there and they move it though so like the air tank I'm guessing they had one but they decided to put it on they de they they decommissioned that now they did so that was a problem like that was not and there's the Benzene filter yeah yeah I don't know whether the Benzene filter I don't know if that speak intelligently I think it has more to do with what you would if there was one fire and this is just latest technology in a Benzene filter I don't really know but the planting strip that is exists between the driveway and the BP station is there for plan to help bring those problems into because our we have design standards in our quote require landscape buffers between commercial properties to break up the asphal and that's like I said I don't know you know as far as that goes I don't know if it's on a prior site plan or not I don't have that in front of me well that's fair and I'm not really direct you but I know the zoning office is in you know they're on top of it and and you know have been monitoring it I might be off on this we might want to be careful with Landscaping buffer in that spot only because there's visibility for cars coming out of the lot there as you're I understand that but from a safety perspective you got you got you we decide to put all these bike Lanes in and you got kids on bikes you got kids walking and you you want to also see the cars coming out of the lot as you're driving by so if you have a landscape buffer on that edge of the gas station you're coming down river road towards fairing Road and there's a landscape buffer between the gas station and the parking lot you're not going to be a to see the cars coming out potentially as they're coming out of the that's you'd have you'd have plenty of a you shed we have existing ordinances for right uh sight lines aters that that address okay I have one thing to say the burrow I'm going end on a good note I'd like to congratulate our very own mayor uh Josh Halper he had the most successful girls midm team in history and you know dedicated four five six seven eight five years to coaching uh the girls and that takes a lot of time effort patience and on top of that being extremely successful so thank you for everything Ming on the WNBA next I hear we're going to start with high school high school um okay with no other business to be had here uh we are going to move towards adjournment no to we're going to Executive session that's not on my on the other side it's on consent agend cons the agenda that's 49 pass 49 yeah but it's not on my list no no worries uh we're going to move towards executive session and I'm assuming no business no action will be no action will be taken on this one no formal action okay all in favor I anyone oppos Andrew has that in his is any second all in favor anyone oppos good night Fair it does sound like a radio show