all right uh let's call this meeting to order at 7:02 p.m we going to start salute to the FL iedge Al to the the United States of America to the for it stands Nation God indivisible withy andice join me in a moment of Silent reflection thank you all right uh Sunshine Law [Music] notice in accordance with the provisions of the open public meetings ACT public meetings may be held in person or by means of communication equipment include streaming services and other online meeting platforms this meeting is being held person through the zoom meeting platform being broadcast from bur Hall 748 River Road Fair Haven New Jersey public participation for this regular council meeting of April 23rd 2024 is available by Callin phone number or through Web Conference Zoom members of the public will be on mute until it is time for questions or comments which will be announced at that time the public has the opportunity to question or comment by phone or through Zoom by the raised hand button and will be called on at the appropriate time notice of this meeting was included in a schedule of meetings which was adopted by resolution number [Music] 2024-25 post on the burrow website the Bolton board and municipal building and has remained continuously posted as required under the statute with adequate notice having been given the burough clerk is directed to include this statement in the minutes of this meeting Alison I please have a roll call council members call herei here here here La olon here administrator C here J soille engineer Gardella and assistant engineer fors great thank you um so we are going to go into storm water management I just want to make a quick note that we have a few young ladies here tonight from Trinity for an AP Gov class one yes thank you for joining us we're excited to have you one of those ladies is uh as I call her Libby Raymond used to spend a lot of time in my house I haven't seen her in years so you put a big smile on my face tonight uh welcome welcome thank for joining us um uh we have Nick perchinsky and Rich Gardella evening we're back again we were here seemed like not long ago to kind of give you an overview of some of the updates some of the rule changes as it relates to the ngg njd scool rules we put together some slides that are going to show up on the screen tonight um Nick is going to walk us through kind of give us some insight on what we need to do in the coming months what we've accomplished this year in the last year or so and some of the things moving forward as as D you know continues to tweak and modify the rules good evening everybody um I was thinking I might just stand so I can see the the board there a little better if that's okay with you guys yeah as we as we go through this um so yeah today's agenda we're going to talk about the storm water rules update on the revisions that the DP has has put into place and then how that uh how that dub Tails into the compliance with our ms4 permit okay next slide uh just to start us off everybody has seen all the rain and the flooding not just in faah Haven here but all over New Jersey um this is example from April 30th 202 2023 a year ago on ened Road obviously it's it's something that's in Fair Haven but it's not unique to Fair Haven it's going it's it's happening around the state uh next slide this is another example from a July storm last year this is the intersection of uh hunting enhance Road um one of our DPW employees uh is there trying to check out to see if the inlet drain is clogged or if there's some other issue but uh wasn't necessarily the case within a half hour or so that water dissipated and continued on function so again you know the DP storm water rule change is is looking to address the intensification the frequency and the severity of of rainfall and it it's Upon Us municipalities and DP and the state to protect Public Safety and that's why we're we're looking at these new SC War rules and wait back on side just the the D has put these rules into effect and they're calling in the Inland flood protection rules I'm not going to say that a million times today I'm just going to call them the ifp okay next slide so how did this come about Governor Murphy issued an executive order 100 which basically said that uh D you need to take a look at climate change and how it relates to our regulatory and our permitting process so the D went into um and issued an executive order in 2021 that said that basically precipitation expectations that guide State planning uh State development um are not activ reflecting the current intensity and conditions so therefore under the New Jersey protection climate which is NJ paack they instituted the ifps which are incorporated into the storm water rules under njac 7 colon 8 and the flood Hazard rules under 7 colon 13 next so what's the purpose of the ifp it's basically to make sure that we identify those areas that are of significant risk we Define them and that we make sure that new development and Investments um address both the current conditions of the r and future conditions over the lifetime of an asset and that requires new and reconstructed sites to be designed with the best available rainfall data next so again why why the ifp well the D recognized that there's there's been some issues uh with with the program The increased precipitation as a result of the rules only looked at the rainfall up to 199 999 the outdated the outdated data causes issues with the new storm water infrastructure it doesn't necessarily take into consideration climate change or other other um buildout scenarios so the designs need to be updated because they're not protecting New Jersey for today or for the future next slide so the D along with Noah took a look at the rainfall data uh since 1999 and they recognized that the 210 and 100e storm rainfalls have increased 5 7% and 15% respectively and therefore more rain equals more storm water runoff more runoff means more riverine flow and more flow means higher flood elevations so that's what they're trying to uh take into consideration with the new IP rules and the future precipitation for the projection up the year 2100 they expect the rainfalls to increase by 24 27 and 50% next slide I have a question did they keep the same definition of a 100e storm is a 100e storm it's just the rainfall intensity the actual Factor associated with those storms so I back up a slide is there one after that not sure but there has a supply to Fair Haven so Fair Haven has to like all the municipalities needs to update their storm water management Control Ordinance so the storm water Control Ordinance is located under land youth regulations under chapter 30-14 which we was previously amended in 2021 so for a timeline of how these ifp rules are going to be kind of brought online is that the DP adopted July 17 2023 the we're looking for the mayor and Council of Fair Haven Council to have a first reading on the 28th of May 2024 and then the planning board will review it for recommendation oh two slides back you said um so that the planning board will review it in their June 18th meeting and make a recommend ation then the council will adopt it July 8th in order to meet the July 16th 2024 deadline from the D okay next slide so what are the key changes of the ifp basically the design flood elevation for fuo non non-title flood mapping is going to be increased by two feet the second key change is that the future projected uh precipitation um is going to be used to calculate the flood elevation so there's going to be an adjustment Factor that's um associated with it the ifp will also make sure that the DP flood Hazard rules conform with the uniform construction code and need thema requirements and that the bmps uh are designed and calculated based on today's storms and the future storms and one of the other key elements of this is that there used to be the ability to use the rational or modified rational method for calculations it's a simplified method they're eliminating that they want the designers to look at more of a a holistic and more intense modeling for the rainfall design next slide back up to that last one does the changing the blood elevation by 2 ft does that affect existing properties designed for new I'm thinking about insurance blood insurance yeah so this um it's for new construction and it has to do with non-title so like nyn is tital so we're kind of Lucky is that places like the upper bake River or the hackensac river which are strictly flal just Rivers um for State studied streams they're going to increase it by two feet so we're not going to be impacted because m is is tit this is more for fial River type of scenario that's why they call the Inland flood protection rule right versus the you know some of the the coastal type scenarios which are more prevalent along landed Coast but it still affects it still affects us [Music] um so basically um there's there's going to be an opportunity in the future to do additional changes um right now the Fair Haven storm Control Ordinance will be based on the D's model ordinance as found in appendix D um we're working with attorney soel to to make sure we get all those um incorporated into our 30-14 ordinance and we'll comply with the the with the with the D standards there like I said the D is kind of rolling out numerous type of changes to the ordinance um from a state level and there's going to be additional regulations in the fourth quarter of 2024 which will give us an opportunity to have addition talks for additional measures to be incorporated to our thr M Control Ordinance some of those include um or things that consider for fair Havens the use of low impact development techniques for for site design um reducing the threshold for major development what we think about it is that the DP regulations is a a big castet and it has an opening for certain size fish and by changing the size of that net open you will be able to incorporate additional um restrictions when new development comes into play so um there's also the opportunity to create a threshold for a minor development scenario um for for accumulative impacts very similar to what Fair Haven goes under a development pattern where we have small Residential Properties that have you know kind of tricked and been demoed and rebuilt um you know and not necessarily on a major development scale um there's also things like the definition of impervious surfaces how we treat impervious surfaces um clarification how Redevelopment projects are are calculated with regard to imperious coverage and also strengthening our maintenance requirements next slide so that's the Inland flood protection rule but for Fair Haven we also have to make sure that we're in compliant with our ms4 permit um and the ms4 permit it basically says that you know we all have the responsibility as as elected officials employees volunteers environmental groups to to kind of work to make sure that all our decisions and ordinances kind of grow in the same direction again storm water is in in the grand scheme of thing is generally pretty new it was originally issued in in 2004 and we're now in 2024 so it's only you know 20 years old or so next slide here's a a quick summary of the ms4 permits for the past year of how we've maintain our compliance uh in in November we updated our storm water pollution prevention plans to be in concert with the state um that's basically operations and Good Housekeeping type of uh standards uh the storm water management plans are still are still in the process that has to do more with the Watershed and the um reviewing it in conjunction with the master plan our annual reports are due every May so engineering department is working on getting that done obviously we're doing our stor morning ordinances for the 2024 uh with regard to street sweeping for 2023 just as an order of magnitude we basically did 40 days of street sweeping covered about 940 miles for a a total collected um or swept waste of like 288 cubic yards for for disposal so that's taking that grind off our doors and and cleaning up our gutters and our streets and our ultimately our infrastructure that leads to the naving um so that was uh again the new street sweeper has is basically in use now and we're hoping that those numbers are actually going to come down as we continue to use it and there's not as much Grime and stuff in the in the roads obviously we have our ongoing yearly train from the public works to all our different committees and organizations uh we're constantly updating our website so feel free to check it out and see the latest updates pipe cleaning for the micro projects and the other projects we we cleaned out jetted and clean Foreman Smith hunting Hans and Dartmouth about 25 line 2 200 linear feet and then obviously with our brush and leaf collection we've gone through some um in ordinance changes with regards to the green can so some of that stuff will also be eliminated from our our roadways and our stor water infrastructure which we're we're looking forward to that as well as our normal engineering projects our Capital Improvement projects we did improvements to you know Park Lane with the sump inlets and Smith Street increasing pipe sizes um as as kind of all positive things with regard to our storm water compliance next slide and also in 2023 we we um installed our first stormx at the Fair Haven dock obviously we take it off for the winter but that's an example of the collection of FL floatables and other stuff that was captured and disposed of properly before and after picture next and then these pictures are from the inlet and pipe cleaning on H road you can see the in the first picture there's concrete block there's curve pieces or sections the second one has uh you know anytime a project a residential project does development you know you know they're they're they're demoing the site they're Excavating they don't have the proper soil Orion control measures all that stuff kind of washes out if we have a big storm and then ends up in our storm drain it's uh it's it's the cholesterol of storm water basically it clogs up our our infrastructure decreases our volume and then impacts uh you know Downstream you know another example to the right there the third picture is example on HED Road where we Hamed it that's um you know if there's cracks in the pipe or at the joints obviously there during the summer months or over time the roots seek water so they'll go towards the the water source and over time they basically um create this web that impedes storm water blow which was one of the reasons why in the first picture those h Road and hunting Lane pictures that I showed you um you we cleared this stuff up and we're hoping that that is one of the um one of the the solutions to to alleviate that strong water flooding issues uh that that was happening in that area can I ask you a question sure if can you only see that this is happening once you fully go in or can you see this from a camera like are you able to check how much each year like will you go in and clean each year now what's the plan moving forward well we don't clean every year but we do inspect all our inlets and the open areas uh so this you go to the next picture actually so with the street sweeper we have a v associated with with it so that's our DPW guys and we go out and clean out the the actual in in the basins obviously we see that there's a lot of debris or sediment in there we know there's a problem that we might need to further investigate U next picture again just in summary here this is this is complicated there's a lot of moving Parts there's a lot of clouds per in storm water a lot of different regulatory um you know pieces but we're all working hard and together to make sure that we're in compliance and that we're you know going above and beyond to provide the residents of be Haven with the public safety and for the use of the public you know domain here next slide yeah this is our St water web page you feel free to check it out um there's always updates there's all all of our required information with regard to the storm water pollution program or ordinances regarding pet waste litter control wad heating what have you all in one location uh and we're constantly updating that on on annual or at required basis uh our storm water system is separate from the regular sewer system yeah we don't have a combined system yeah and that's the conclusion any questions or comments I have a couple questions mayor when you're ready to open a discussion yeah just hold one sec someone I'll come back to you um Nick all of this is proposed for the future it's not retroactive it's moving forward with regards to the Inland protection rules yes so they become effective once we adopt the Inland flood protection rules but there's you know opportunities in the near future to enhance those with additional measures and that was the the consensus and the goal okay but people who might live in that two foot extension that already are there they're not bound by anything are they when you say the twoot extension you mean design elevation incre the elevation increased so so FEMA has the flood maps which they put out every year there effective flood maps which you know regulate the navyn river um those maps are as is so in other words if if a hurricane came through and a structure that's in the flood plane is damaged or substantially you know demoed or whatever and they have to rebuild they would have to rebuild to the the current step levels with regard to FEMA regulations but if you're there now you don't have to if you're there now no you not have to change anything unless there's substantial Improvement or substantial U Renovations okay thank you Council Nicole thank you mayor Nick thank you so much for being here tonight this is very helpful um I had a few questions if I may um some of the things that you described and what's going on right now I think they were highlighted in red are those um work items that are being funded with the grant by and being prepared by avakian under your direction or is it separate the the um I think you're referring to the ms4 bulying stuff so the step number one the storm water pollution prevention plan avakin helped us put that together and update at for conformance um some of the other uh items like the storm water management plans and the watershed management plan that stuff that has a 25 26 and 28 timeline that we still need to work out the details for okay and I imagine there'll be future funding to be able to afford the assist for that additional work is that your sense perhaps it's that I'm not sure about do we know Teresa if D is goingon to release additional rounds of funding for comp believe this would fall into the category where it's a you know State mandated but not necessarily State paid um is any of the work that we need to do for this wave of obligation um mapping that would identify the current condition of our infrastructure burough wide so the Inland flood protection rules are are are separate from the the ms4 stuff so the the ordinances and the adoption that we're looking for for this the next for July 2024 don't involve the mapping portion of it that's that's totally separate I'm just bringing that up because it's all kind of combined and reasoning you know the update today was for the DP Inland for protection rules but also the ms4 just to kind of highlight some of the stuff that's going on as it relates to storm water so let me let see is there any part of this work that's going to include mapping of our infrastructure the Inland flood protection portion of it no the MS for permit no the the ms4 permit is an ongoing permit compliance that we do every year as part of you know ongoing uh work associated with maintaining our permit okay let me ask my question another way would you would you find it valuable to have a map of our infrastructure yeah the DP requires us to have infrastructure mapping and we're working to to get that to the next level so for the first stage of that was to map the outfalls and the next part of that is to map the uh the actual infrastructure the pipes the inlets the sizes and and what have you and we're working on on on getting into compliance with that okay um we have the majority of that do we that's great there's pre-existing mapping that was done prior to even these rules coming out this came back from like Administration back in the 90s for the shore communities so being that we're a cultural Community we have a lot of that base mapping in place what we need to update is all the projects that have taken place since then compare that with the current mapping and put them in a one format all they're in different formats GIS GIS kind that would be great when we get to that point okay um do you feel like you can identify the existing sort of we call them hot spots or areas of concern significant risk we sort of all know where they are roughly do you have a feel for that well I think a lot of the storm drain cleaning was targeted around this hotspots I think a lot of the storm water improvements we just did as part of the micro projects back in March we started with the storm water stor wind pipe installs I think we've already seen the benefits of that um and it also has to do with the just the natural Topography of fair the low spots in certain areas that you know we don't have necessarily control over they're just low spots by definition and houses were built in those low spots so you have groundwater SE page and you have Overland flow that kind of accumulates in those low spots yeah one last question um there if we were going to entertain um a IAL regulatory um other regulations it would go beyond the minimum that de is requiring what would you recommend are these DIYs sort of on on your home sort of green infrastructure simple stuff or or would you consider would you advise us to consider other measures no I think that's that's part of the the next discussion like I said was to to discuss you know the the definitions of major and minor development um you know discussing the bmps which ones are most applicable to the development Trends in Fair Haven um and how we put that into practice with regard to um you know the requirements from the engineering side of the land use development um those are things that you know we looking forward to those discussions with the various different inputs from the the Committees environmental commission the mayor and Council the the boards um um so done sorry you gave me one more question procedurally I know because this is land use it's going to take a trip over to the planning board and come back um it would be interesting because I know the when I was working with the environmental commission very closely they were entertaining some suggestions for our land use boards that had to do with you know how can you put in a simple dryw a DIY stuff the green infrastructure though which is major sort of tone of um I'm watching the storm water management um instruction that were required to view so there's some talk of that and I know that the environmental commission was giving a good deal of thought to try to get some sort of um just suggestions things for Landry Sports and to keep in mind I don't know that that ever materialized but they had a good healthy ongoing discussion about DIY green infrastructure just for the homeowner just your average homeowner um they it would be good to their input we we've seen some of that um but just as an FYI not every a majority of it's not going to go before the land Sports it's going to come through my office Nick's office for review for inspection for observation through our construction so even though it is some of it some of it is a diyi type of stuff we're going to still have to review it to ensure that there's no adverse effects on neighboring Properties or that the materials they're using and some of the design that they're implementing uh makes sense and and that's got to be somewhat regulated now putting some of that in an ordinance is kind of the things that we were talking about maybe some of those next steps but we also have to look at the impacts um on the office staff as well as it relates to trying to process all this stuff that comes through the office and and ensuring it's being done properly and um and especially during construction even though it could be some homeowner type stuff they're still going to call they're still going to need some assistance their contractor may have questions and typically we go out and try to provide some assistance at that time you know at least during construction before it's all done so I just wanted to add that I hear you I hear you it's another layer that we just need to capture you know internally and you know those are things where we have to look at you know what's what's the balance that that sense if we want to go above and beyond you know the model ordinance speaking there's G to be an opportunity for homeowners to do like you say Do It Yourself type of water Landscaping that doesn't necessarily require any type of review or what have you and then the other the other you know side of that is a developer coming in with new construction either subdivision or a new house that's going to be having more structured requirements with regard to seasonal High separation size of the structure the amount of impervious coverage that's connected not connected and where those where those bmps are going to be located so there's going to be a kind of hodge podge of of options that will ultimately benefit the community and and in its tiing thank you Nick Thank you Rich I just wanted to point out a couple of things um obviously we Nick alluded to it there is required training for uh governing body members I know you have the link um does have a time frame on it Alison sent it out I ask you to please double check if you can't find that uh talk to Alison sure we sent it to you um in in some very good planning ahead of time uh the finance committee we did put um $10,000 into a new lead EST storm water management line this year that's outside of cap to start building um monies that we will need to address you know some of the store mod stuff and as you move forward as much as this that you can charge to that outside the cap line the better off you are and and that really comes down to things like Manpower I mean you think about it you know the D is pushing this all down to the local level and and like Nick and Rich talked about the review of plans and the inspections and going out that's going to impact their offices significantly and it you know they're going to need some assistance to as these things Step Up um to get that done and that's something that that you will have to look at going forward Teresa on that note have we spent I know as of February 26 we had not spent any of the $25,000 we were awarded we still have that yes okay we have plans for it uh no I was sort of waiting to see how you know things broke out and and what we thought you can't use it for soft cost it can't be used for uh like it couldn't pay for the aak and study for AR okay so it couldn't be for planning then for any kind of or you know I don't think so I think it it I don't believe there was a planning component to that but I have to go back and review it again or could it be paid for compiling all that information that you're saying is in multiple different form I think that's what we were initially talking about is using that money to help with the mapping portion of the project um and I just wonder like when how you're finding out what the problem areas are I assume it's mostly just by people calling in and saying we're flooding and all of that happening because I no we have the DPW guys are driving around I'm driving around rich is driving around we we you know during storms we're jumping around to different locations we're double-checking things prior to storms or all our guys go out and we check various different locations to make sure that they're clear and free of debris or Deadfall or what have you um so we have a routine with that and then we we kind of also be brief after a storm and we kind of take a look and say hey this is what happened why did it happen how do we fix it how can we you know address those things we have to take it to the next level where there's you know additional engineering involved or is it something that's you know really uh a private property a private public you know owner that's doing it and we try to address those internally and try to you know bring them up the the chain of command to figure out you know what the issue are issue is and how can we address it through ordinances is or or or something else you know in full disclosure I'm really close to the this issue so it's it's a little bit different for me talking about it so I if there's any bias here I forgive me but um I one of the big takeaways is I worry though that we're doing things a little bit peace meal and not understanding how all everything's fitting together so you know we there were a lot of things done with the pipes being cleaned but that took about 3 years to get that done and it really did help River Road you know like it's not where I live personally it's not flooding now but I just wonder how like how it's all connected and how the different areas are affecting each other and instead of like peace mealing it I I would prefer we had more of a plan yeah ultimately don't disagree with you but it's also a moving Target it's it's it's it's changing every storm is different the intensity is different where you know where the rain is coming from if there's blockage in one area it kind of pops up in a different area so it's it's it's a kind of a uh you know it comes down to funding it really comes down to funding you know the the numbers that we have on the screen we spent $60,000 cleaning pipes so we have to be creative on how to get it done we got a portion done under the Third Street project portion done under the h Road and Cooney project we got a portion done through the River Road Corridor project in New Jersey American Water we just finished another portion through this micro projects so yes it may seem peace meal but small town limited budget limited engineering you know we kind of just plug away and and through our years of experience here we know the hotpots and to next point we're we're out there during the storms you know we're out there at you might have seen me in your neighborhood a couple weeks ago at 10 o'clock at night running around with a flashlight you know looking in storm drains checking all the pipes seeing where you know it's it's blowing that's how we tell you know we get in there um so but you know to Nick point to these rules came on 20 years ago we've come a long way we've done a lot we wanted to kind of outline some of the um the components and compliance that we've already done um obviously we have this ordinance which is really the target date which is July uh we're going to work with Andrew's office to to hit that um we try to fund I think it's safe to say we try to put in for storm water nearly in in our in our budget requests but sometimes you have to figure out a way to to get it done alternatively so and I will say for the past 15 years to their credit our engineering department in every road project we've looked at drainage you know as part of the road project we if we're going to do an area we we do it right if dra is involved we had C catch Bas that led to Noe they they weren't hooked up to anything you know so we've made some major improvements over the years but once again you know there's only so much Capital funds every year that we allocate towards those projects I mean you I'm sure tomorrow could you know allocate $500,000 to storm water management if you so desired and and you know right off over time or budget but it it it it will ultimately impact you know the taxpayers I you know um one of the I did take the required course and it was a it was it was hard to watch just because with all the new rules it seemed to me and I'd love to get your thoughts on this but some of the projects that are still happening seem like a lot of what was done might not aren't even close to the regulations now or the new rules so do any of them if they're ongoing projects they're even if they're still going on when these new rules go in place they don't have to follow the rules correct well I think part of it is we can agree that bar is built out so when you're trying to introduce some of these rules you're trying to retrofit some of these standards into existing infrastructure and existing Street Network as ni said there's there's existing low spots within the burrow the the the the Topography of the land is what it is so you're dealing with it's all pre-existing conditions so from an engineering standpoint you try to implement some of those standards you try to do those improvements things do get better things have gotten better um but to try to size a pipe say for a 100e storm or a 25e storm based on the new range data you know you might see a 48 inch pipe going down foral street out to hands it's it's not necessarily realistic so you have to look at what other things can we do to make it better and I I've been my entire career I've worked in castal communities so normally what we try to do is if if something floods 20 times a year get it down to two times a year that's a major Improvement that's the type of things you need to look at yeah what about for the ones that are just starting to flood now though so like down h Road a lot of the newer builds are now flooding in their basements and they're building things that need to expel the water which is then only going to exacerbate some of the problems so are we really I don't really know what my question is but there are new things popping up each time so then how do we keep you know just it keeps just adding on to the problem well the basements are a different topic discussion you know that's that's water table that's seasonal high water I mean wouldn't that more go to towards development Builder and that's their responsibility I mean the bur is not going to get involved with a builder that doesn't have experience well but then but that's I guess kind of to back back then how do we enforce or make sure that these Builders are building this stuff up isn't that on us though to make sure that they're up to code and up to the standard up to code but at the same time as far as you know whether they're able to seal a a basement and and properly outfit a basement first of all they have to know what the water table is and I'm speaking more as someone that has experience in in this uh field is they have to understand what they're building and they're you know they're warranting a product right there's a warranty I have I have a neighbor down the block from me that they built on uh there's a stream that has basically been sub subverted around the basement and the Builder chose to build there and chose to build a basement where there's actually a known Street going through that you know that the uh basement area but how do we I guess I'm not as caught up but like how do we allow that as a town because wouldn't that then ultimately have some negative impacts on all the buildings on the houses around it at some point the new yeah we have a new ordinance that prohibits people from know they have to keep their basement for 2T above the seasonal high water mark and we passed that ordinance so there are some homes that were being built into it yeah and that's when we realized that there was a problem and then we created dis ordinance to to avoid that from happening again but at the same time limiting the height of the first floor so that you didn't build your house an extra five or six feet up to allow yourself to have a temp fo basement so we just need to keep on top of it yeah but that's all part of zoning when when the building for yeah the other ones that are really yeah so when a new house comes in for zoning they submit not only the architectural plan but they submit an engineering plan part of the engineering plan includes geotechnical soil borings so their professionals are going or certified are going out there digging holes in the location of the proposed build proposed house and they're checking the soils and they're looking for what they call modeling seasonal High modeling and they Define find that layer and they have an elevation associated with it and they use that as one of the first parameters to establish where their basement is and they packag that up and they present it to us and we you know they're signing and sealing it that it works for the ordinance um we're not going out there and double we're not digging trenches on their property double checking that but they're saying that it satisfies the the the standards for for for that type of development okay and who is because one of the big things that I took out of this meeting was or the seminar was like maintenance of everything and they said a lot of the towns are deficient because of Maintenance who is who checks up on us like who and are they reg we do get howed every two to four years I say years and have we been a component it's been a lot of it is uh recordkeeping Good Housekeeping um obviously the annual stor report that we do and you know we go out they they do they they jump in our cars and drive out to certain places and things yes and spend hours in our office you know going through everything so yes but like everyone else they're under staffed so we might might see them in a couple years we might see them in four years it all depends have more questions but all but I I can tell you to you know fa Haven is somewhat unique because you have in-house Engineers so as a result we are here we're also running DPW we are with the guys we have educated them we have brought them along we've gotten the right equipment that we think we need to do the job at a very cost effective way and at the end of the day we have to seal know we have to certify these reports and and send this stuff into DP so um as licensed professionals we're plugging along like like everybody else to to get this done um I don't know I sense a little hesitation uh you know it's it's a little bit hard for me so I'm trying to yeah okay question I also laed the video some water video ironically I thought it very dry I mean it was it's super trouble falling asleep same it's terrible couple serious questions so I may have lost the thread in the presentation there's the ifp mandates from the state which in plain English are new ordinance requirements model ordinance for new building that the idea is it will will relieve pressure on the system if buildings are built to a higher standard to manage storm water is that correct well elevation and you know impervious and all the different things and the idea of that is to to help relieve the pressure on our Throne water system is that correct is that what the and that's they're it's also making sure that new construction addresses the you know the future and that we're not just looking at rainfalls from the impacts previous years we're looking at a projected rainfall and flow and making sure that the new construction can manage that storm water that higher level of storm water that's generated yes and so if someone builds the new standard the system in theory will have less pressure on right if every on after 100 years or whatever all the buildings are replaced up to the new standard and there'll be less pressure in Sy that's the idea the correct the ifp yeah it's it's to it's to try to help address the the more intense rainfall and the you know the the greater frequency of these rainfalls generally speaking like R was saying the the stormw infrastructure underground is not designed for 100-year storm right it's it's impractical to build it to that level of of of of you know sizewise volume wise it's built for a 25e storm event um and it's understood that it's going to fail and but if it fails you want to make sure that it fails in a way that there's not causing Downstream uh impacts um but generally speaking the the idea of using the the additional factor of safety with regard to these future precipitation rainfall datas will help alleviate some of that pressure moving forward all right so that piece they're doing trying to do new bill with new ordinances new requirements and then my this is the part where may have lost of threat is there a second piece of the state mandates that impact our system our pipes have to be so much in diameter and we have to clean them at a certain speed or frequency is that also part of what that's part of the normal ms4 compliance right that's our housekeeping maintenance portion of the project and that's not changing the new the changes there changes that we talked about last year are are kind of uh ramped up there's a timeline a deadline associated with them so there there 24 25 20 there's certain things that kind of come online during that time frame um I can send you the the PowerPoint from last year that talked about that portion of it all right I'll land the plane now where where all this was headed was do have we penciled out the capex the costs of no I don't I think it's probably fair to say that we haven't really assess that you okay and we don't anticipate the state helping with the funding just theand I wouldn't I wouldn't and most of the ifp stuff is for the develop the developer side of things the private side of things not necessarily on the public side the ms4 is more like the public side yeah that's a great way to put it yeah the ordinances the ifp are private development and M4 is the rules of pering Regulation regarding those types of things the wetlands the flood Hazard area those are the rules and regulations for development where the ms4 is our our permit as a as Fair Haven and what we need to do for compliance so the the cost to the buau for ifp is a extra administrative cor inspectors compant you know that kind of thing corre and their current fund expenses unfortunately yes and that's in the cap yes okay and again like I said there there supposed to be additional regulations coming in the second half of 2024 which we don't know all those things yet but there supposedly they're they're also trying to you know ramp up some of these regulations which gives gives us not opportunity to do some of those additional measures that I talked about do you think that it's below the threshold of having to add another person or do you think we have capacity I think the uh it's very fair to say that the engineering and public work department is already administr assistance this will just make that even more apparent I mean obviously I think it's very important that we address this full full on and and put everything we can towards it um but in that vein would we have made any changes or would this change our plans for the PD or Community Center like would any of those requirements change what we've done ter in terms of strong water with PD and Community DPW we are Consulting Engineers some storm water management measures to deal with the project as a renovation it's strictly a renovation not really doing a ton of site work the majority of the site work is probably landscaping and buing and fence we weren't looking at repaving the parking lot we configuring toy um if anything we're taking away some imperious surface so the majority of that is going to captured some that mov right now there's really no storm water management on that site everything she blows out towards a catch Bas and eventually ends up into Third Street um infrastructure system over at PD uh the Consulting engineer put in a series of pipe charge there yeah I think they did some recharge under the um the parking lot to pick up and capture and we also um introduced a rain Garden on the West Side to capture some of the runoff so it was kind of a mix of some of the things that Tracy brought up about you know what what little things can we do um to make it better than it is um keeping the budget in line of course because as you you can easily spent a million dollars in stormm water management at tpw but we felt let's implement the measures that we're going to do we are doing some recharge um but also recognizing we had some pre-existing conditions that we had to deal with from environment standpoint too so you also have to keep that in mind okay um yeah any type of development if you're a homeowner if you're municipality if you're you know uh you know building a 200 you know 200 subdivision in a project obviously storm order is one of the first concerns and you're balancing budget over development how many market rate units you want versus you know meeting the rules and regulations and and how much you want to you know put into that portion of the project so you know from from early on when I started out in a Consulting world one of the first things you looked at was storm water how much area do you need to dedicate to storm water and then you have to take that out and see what's left for the rest of it to devel and that's the same for a residential homeowner you know and anybody else you're constantly balancing those those those things I think just to sum it up a good indicator to to see what we're dealing with is over Fair Haven fields we have a sand infiltration Basin that Basin was built I believe in 2005 or six at the time it was built it seemed like it was oversized for the parking area and the improvements that were done at the department if you go by there now just about every heavy storm event it's p of water or at least holding water is it between you're talking about like between the parking lots between dmouth Avenue and the parking lot so you can visually see yeah the rainfall intensity is up the numbers do show that the rainfall is up we don't have those all over the town like most municipalities do with shopping centers and and subdivisions and a lot of these major storm water a lot of the that you see that's where that maintenance really comes into play is maintaining those types of storm water yeah Bas basins yeah we don't have that we have one we have one Municipal owned Basin in all America but it's because of the pre-existing condition and and and built out factor of Fair Haven so I just wanted to conclude with that and one things should remember too when you're looking at these ordinances particularly looking at the ones that are pertaining to residential you know there's different levels you can start with the base ordinance like we're going to adopt and different groups will will will give you more intensified ordinances but they all come at a cost to your residents you know at some point do you want Mrs Jones to spend you know $5,000 or $55,000 on a project and those those are the things you have to take a long look at I me the part of pond is Overflow spanks twice since I've been here and and do you want to spend a million dollars on storm water you know for for twice in 15 years I don't know what the answer to that is but once again those are those are decisions you have to make and they're not easy sometimes thank you guys so much we really appreciate it appreciate the presentation and all the hard work you've done to um improve this and I I do think we've seen Improvement although to the people that are effect obviously it's you know even one time is too many so um really appreciative thank thank you uh next up we have the beautification committee as a fundraising proposal I believe Susan is here absolutely um thanks everybody um so those of you that are familiar or not familiar with the beautification committee um basically the mission statement is we you know bring little pieces of beauty to the town but our goal is to do it at no burden through the budget we have a tiny tiny budget and uh and so but we have big Ideas tiny budget Big Ideas and so one of the ways to take care of that is to do some fundings um and so we've got two fundraising ideas one of which is to um resurrect what Betsy and I put together many years ago and kind of died during covid and all the renovations of some of the buildings and that is to bring back the dedicated bench the dedicated tree um program which twofold a can raise a little bit of money but also offsets the cost of the of things that uh the bur of benches or items such as that that the burough wanted to uh put into place they don't have to pay for it something else will pay for it perfect example is the park at dening those gorgeous benches that are down there um we put several ones at mcarter Park uh as well as ones down at um Fen Fields so that's one of the things we'd like to really start to do so if there's any locations that you guys can think of that's coming up I know there's a lot of construction going on um let us know uh and that's one of the ways that we would like to to raise money foration yeah I know we're getting new benches down at the dock right that's a perfect could we make that part of our bench program um I believe we've ordered them already so well whether you order them or not it doesn't matter you can still we'll sell them yeah that's up to mayor council pardon no no the the the goal is to have some uniformity as well so like they would be we're just waiting on DJ to give us pricing it's actually the only hold up that he's looking into like making sure whe they're similar to the ones that we've used um and then the other one which we really excited about is the buoy tree and uh the goal is and so what we're so the mayor at the very good question of me um what am I asking from the burrow the only thing I'm the beautification committee is asking in the burrow is a being able to do it like at the location and a little electricity um and so our goal is to do it over this to have a su to start it out with a summer project we might do more of these throughout the year possibly if it becomes a hit but do one at the dock um I actually have I think I sent you two pictures was there a second the location um the other location is uh the picture of where on the dock which is just the corner just right there there's electricity up on top we measured it all out it would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 to 11 counting the base feet tall we'd be able to do about 200 buoys um and would the goal would be to sell them and then you decorate them yourself nothing political or obscene um you a stores can do it they can you know decorate them and just have it look like a pretty little tree so the boats going by or people going down to the dock would be able to see them so that's really all we're asking for and then the money would be the the foundation of Fair Haven has um offered to um I don't what it is to do the fundraiser and then uh sponsor the fundraiser through through the foundation of Fair Haven and then through at the end of it we would cut a check for the beautification committee so that's the goal is a tree permanent or is it just fund it will never leave no it's no it's absolutely not Perman um and it also will be oh one other thing is uh we have somebody who's going to construct it and he had some really great ideas we would anchor it um underneath the two poles uh as well as there' be sandbags on the inside of it so it wouldn't go anywhere so it wouldn't be how long do you picture of being there whatever you we were thinking like a month is what we are kind of you know something like ath or like maybe six weeks somewhere in that time frame like a July to early August um then what would happen to it and then people can either take their buoys back and then we would it's being constructed so that it can then be folded down and then if we wanted you to use it again we could use it again um it would be down for hurricane season oh yeah oh yeah no no it's not a permanent we don't want it to be permanent it's just like because we want to be able to do it again and raise more money how does the lighting work it's just Christmas tree lights you wrap it all you wrap it put them on timer we could do whatever you want yeah absolutely a timer actually I think that's what we were thinking of is a timer and like turn it off at whatever time you guys would want to turned off 9 o' whatever I'm assum I'm assuming you wanted to dock because of the buoys this isn't something you consider at I guess maybe it's not appropriate for Mo I don't think Mo Park is want it do we do we think there's any issue um with the krabbers other than you know it's that's the Le use spot on the dock I think for crabing but they they do use it I'd be more concerned about vialism you know people take movies off and you know more so than wor about crappers that would be my only concern but and we're hoping that the people in town would not do that what was the timing on this I'm sorry the timing would be we're we're potentially looking at like the summertime so we want the boats to see the concerts no even if it was in the way of the concerts it's not in the way of the concerts the way it's being built they could just build you know I think and um we actually would kind of like it up during some of the we kind of cool during the concerts so that was kind of our our thought but I know the concerts really only run into the beginning of July so but if the concerts needed the electricity that was there we' be you know just unplug what the priority would be the concert so that's what I thought those ell dayl so power no have to be pluged in we we looked at we did look at that right but it will cost oh yeah oh that oh L I'm thinking when you were talking about second battery L we looked into that too but it was is there uh attorney s are there any insurance concerns you have I don't have any concerns so how do we proceed a motion to approve all right I make a motion to approve the uh beautification committee's fundraiser for the bully train second no that's going through Foundation of Fair Haven and not through the burrow yes and then we're going to cut a check once you know we'll cut the check after for to and we can do that right you it could be e marked for the beautification committee correct that's what I thought yeah I'll po the CFO but yeah I'll see what we have to set up yeah we've got a bunch of good plans all in favor hi anyone opposed thank you very much thank you for your time yeah yeah doing a workshop Christmas let's uh let's keep this train moving uh we have a workshop session um we have a request for a singular lawn sign do we need a approval for singular if anybody else I figure we would do a blanket one anybody else to say we do sp but when it's on private property yes yes same yeah I think I see private property that haven't come through here well then they're not supposed to be there okay I didn't see any um okay so anyone have any concerns here no no want to make a motion I make a motion that we rep approve the request for the Holy Cross Academy all in favor anyone opposed thank you okay next up um Workshop session to amend burrow code three police regulations to add section 21 entitled resident protection anyone had a chance to look at this have any questions no concerns anyone want to add anything to it I I guess my question was just for you to be honest um do we have the authority to do this we do um and then I don't know if the chief wants to speak on a vote no we looked at it and yeah you something is with the state state stat State control I saw if if one piece of it it's still yeah you might not have one state have one piece I will see any F okay there's no harm and there's no you know any bias or exmination you know here so I think it's I think it's a great thing to know the mayor said to me a few weeks ago I think great thing like you said sometimes the State statue won't cover and also maybe when it goes to court won't be enough there and then we can do so I don't see any part one of the things here I mean you know really this is almost like an antier um you know we're trying to prevent people from casing houses yeah yeah I mean that was definitely clear in this yeah you might not have quite enough for State statue but I don't see any so a local ordinance would you know control here it would be probably Petty disorder version yeah the only one that generally kind of stuck out a little bit was possess an electronic device that's capable determining if electronic key is located inside the motor vehicle now generally I'm sure no one really has that that isn't trying to do this there's some there's some rumors out there that that there is I I've never seen one but yeah it can come across I guess I'm just saying like a random person in future I'm sure I'm sure they're going to invent one so I just want to make sure this gives you what you need Chief yeah yeah absolutely I looked it over and I think it up as well have there been times where you had someone you see turning a a doorknob or something and you say I can't there's no no ordinance against right I wrong car or something there's no real I mean there are some title 39 stuff for uh tampering with vehicles and stuff but may not fit with this many but again a state statute fits and that's what you Char but you've had to walk away from your corre when you you maybe your G telling you shouldn't put you no no this is good yeah great um so we'll put that on for introduction on the 13 yes all right uh next up is public comment on agenda items only this is only for agenda items please try to observe a thre minute time limit please stand identify yourself clearly stating your name and address is there anyone in the public yes Bonnie [Music] hello I I just don't understand this whole thing but is the goal to channel all those where run off no I mean because it seems like more curves we add more the water is rushing going into the drains and where's where then where else would do the drain go I just don't understand there one base and all the way over by Red bang I mean I don't know I'm just curious generally speaking the the you want water to sheep flow over grass or lawn area so it infiltrates into the groundw gets cleaned or whatever and gets to the nav via the groundw instead of piping um obviously if there's existing infrastructure already in place then the water going to hit those curent for the gutters continue on but you know one of one of the areas that we look when we do a road project or or something else just to see if there's an opportunity to provide for that better flow to actually be dissipated to an area where there's sheep flow can go into into the grass area and infiltrate but generally speaking there's not many places like that in M Haven because everything properties well like Lis land just right off B just put sidewalk in and the curs so that's channeling it down is was there I guess there gold certain yards that it's going into I guess I'm just trying to understand um we just replace tated curving on that the side little te okay well I guess I just okay was destroyed Dam I'm not cried I'm just trying to understand it just seems to me that everything goes into the n and if that's the case I guess shouldn't we be isn't the stone management rules to try to protect our water I I don't I just to next Point all existing residential in most of these neighborhoods we can't flow water into people's yards so we're trying to contain it in the streets as best as we can um most of the projects we're doing right now is concrete work is remov Place aside from adding sidewalk and doing pedestrian improvements and safety upgrades as it relates to that and being that I live at the end of baton right as you come to the end of baton and you turn right to go down to the dot there's a drain right there that is always yeah always full of water I don't all it looks to be a place to breed mosquitoes is it supposed to be draining water or is it it just doesn't be functional at all yeah that that drain basically comes across from there a shallow pipe and the only purpose is to drain the Holly intersection to get it across and down the hill the way it's always been made to fill up that that's like that so it's a it's a retention Basin not a it's a su Inlet it's like a su Inlet and when it rains enough it'll come out the top of the great and flow further down towards B but if it I bet you month of July go no R it was still full I mean I've never seen that there's not water in it Pip's like this deep so it's a very shallow like that for probably 50 years yeah looking at Old mapping they looked like there was an outp that went through your property or neighbor's property out towards the Ning at one point in time so I don't know if that at some point got removed or whatever but that's if you looked at some of the old mapping that showed a pipe that discharge through your property or the neighbor's property I don't know actually is a we'll take a look at that one you just brought up um for micro projects 2.0 and we get there and maybe we'll consider whether bigger pipe or whatever I mean this St water is any is there any consideration for chemical use on The Lawns is that is that um fation I got the factor of I mean there's so much everything's washing off every property down again there's been discussions of that you know at a higher level a lot of it comes down to enforement and also the um commercial enti that ultimately makes education yeah and do you realize I mean that's where the environment commission the Green Team can help facilitate some of those Communications and of their programs to help identify to let's say the M Pond mhed area that it doesn't necessarily make sense to to use all these te maybe there different alternative it would be great if it didn't get put on the Green Team because then everybody thinks it's like the Green Team being the Green Team the town supported P you realize that you know just they're not putting we do ongoing education it was on our front side last week we on our website talk about some of that stuff and we constantly betan constantly has PSA um that they're involved such things same thing washing so hopefully the Green Team can step up and match our come on Bonnie Bonnie we'll bring it up with the communications meeting fan has been doing a job thank you anyone else in the public with a agenda item only and I don't no Stephanie Adams yes hello Stephanie how are you I'm well thanks how are you great um Stephanie Adams 230 Oxford um regarding the storm water and the I think you called it the cholesterol the sludge the um construction site sludge that's ending up in the storm drains I'm wondering if any of you are familiar with there's an initiative um going on for I think they're calling it clean construction sites clean construction site I think that's what it's called I know Mammoth Beach currently has an ordinance under attorney review where basically they're requiring um developers construction companies to encapsulate the sawdust from manufactured Lumber you know siding any type of cutting that's going on on the sites they're actually requiring them to encapsulate the the waste product and take it off of the site as opposed to letting it run into the road and into the storm drains and and clogging everything up I'm just wondering if you guys are familiar with that and if that's something that Fair Haven would consider um reviewing I'm not familiar with it but if if it were to pass through in mamit Beach Stephanie and we can get our hands on it I'd certainly take a look at it okay I um okay I have a a contact there and I'll once it's out of attorney review I'll see if I can should I should I have that go to the EC or do you want it to go directly to you or how how do you want me to I would I would start with Bri councilman Olsson okay thank you and then second quick question um on the Southeast corner of Dartmouth and hunting where those um sidewalks and curbs went in a while back there's that that pool of water it has a cone in it we we haven't paved there yet so when we pave there that'll be um okay is is that is that going to happen before the summer like because we're just we're waiting for like the frogs and the mosquitoes and whatnot it's it's been there for quite some time I don't know if it if there's any way to drain it or or if the paving is happening in the next month or so what's wrong with frogs Dartmouth well as long as the frogs are there to eat the mosquitoes then it's all good um yeah maybe what's that um Midway through theing through all the conrete site through the project and then one shot okay so basically I don't know if you heard that Stephanie we have to work our way through all the concrete work once that's done we're going to Mill andate everything you know probably on the same day but okay I've I've I'm not on that street but I've had a few neighbors approach me and ask me about it so I guess if it's still there when the mosquitoes start to come in maybe we can figure out a way to get that water out of there or I don't know it'll it'll end up there again but we open that radius up a little bit to make it a little more friendly for cars I if you noticed that you make the turn off Hunting now so temporarily Bas Bas paved it we didn't bring it up to finish elevation that's why fallere okay all right okay thank you thank you Stephie anyone else Alison no okay thank you moving Lo approval of minutes April 8 2024 special meeting executive session by have a motion to approve motion second Alison please have a roll call call yes yes yes yes wson yes uh thank you anyone old business good all right new business we have the consent agenda res resolutions 2024 102 through 116 uh before I ask for a motion does anyone want to uh separate anything on here no does anyone have any questions or anything comments on anyone I have a motion to approve motion aoll call yes yes yes yes yes uh next up is Department reports March 2024 um just reminds me how much I miss councilman laa as I ask if anyone has a motion with a thank you a second second all in favor I anyone opposed thank you we are now at the good of the burrow portion of the meeting uh please stand identify Yourself by fting your name and address of the record please try to observe a time limit of three minutes anyone in the public uh Josh oh excuse me want to take the public first there is a grants committee report Michael and I have for the council whenever you're ready for it okay um okay with you councilman Cole oh thank you um sorry usual Order of Things um Michael's gonna take the lead on that because I'm so ill um so this is the um grant for or summary for the community based deer management grant program so we are seeking the government uh governing B's approval for the njd community based gear management grant program which assists in the facilitating efforts to address overabundant deer in New Jersey um so this is on our radar obviously with deer management and deer mitigation so we feel that this is good could be good timing one of the big things that you get out of this is that it's a forest um Health Sur survey which provide us with a tool to for planning purposes including deer management but also it'll give us an overview of invasive species tree cover conditions and diversity of plants and more um there is no match to this so the only outstanding uh piece of this would be to find out how much a plan like this would um come we have a couple of calls out we have an idea it might be around $155,000 or less um but we are waiting for those specifics but I guess Tracy were really just asking if we can move forward with the grant being that there is no match and it's not too complicated so we don't think we need to have a grant writer write it we think that we can do it with it with our volunteers is that right Tracy the grant committee looked at it and thought well it's not going to be hard to write this and there seemed to be wanting to incentivize local municipalities to take steps to contemplate the deer management issue and it's sort of timed quite well with where Fair Haven finds itself in this moment so you know it was one of those opportunities we thought at least the governing body should be made aware there is no match it's a it's a straightforward Grant if you want to do it we can get it in it's due May 5th or third yeah so B A smidge of a scramble but also it's not a uh it's not an intense application do we um is there if we are awarded the grant is there any commitment to having to use it not no I don't think so I didn't I don't remember that piece of that I don't think so do you mean could we give them could we turn it down yeah like if they if they said you've been awarded the grant for $115,000 and we decide for whatever the reason I'm not saying we would that we just don't want to do the Forest Health survey or it's more than 15 or it's or it's 25,000 we say wow that's great but we don't want to spend $10,000 out of pocket to move forward do do we have accept this that was my concern as well it doesn't sound like it Josh if if there was wasn't anything in the materials that suggested we were um behold or obligated so and and uh Teresa does this um this grant program does this bring a bell to you as an entity that if we turned it down you know it was going to damage us on future yeah I I don't think I'm surprised about looking at it more regionally you know it doesn't make sense to me to you know give one to six towns located on the peninsula but you know I'm not running the grant program so you know and it can be County but it can only be government it can't be any nonpr so but In fairness we are looking at Zer mitigation as our own problem we're not collaborating with the other towns so if we are dealing with it ourselves this would give us more information to be able to go into that process with more knowledge but also it would help shade tree commission you know natural fields to understand more which trees are diseased which which I know we've done a little bit of that we did a tree inventory but this would be a fuller well I I I support it as long as we're not committed to accepting and that that would be something I I'd want before anyone filled it out just to confirm I don't know how everyone else feels I do I agree with you that we need to find out if we if we're accepted that we have to accept it but who would you use to conduct this survey do you have anybody in mind or the companies that specialize in this Tracy do you want to speak to that but yes I mean our in house I had the same I had the same questions Betsy and I put my questions um to Jody Powers it's this is a program house within the fish and wildlife of deer management division and um Jody Powers is you know her I believe she's been to Fair Haven and and I wanted to know if they had a list of vendors or if it was something that was done at the Forestry Department it wasn't clear that it was I it's not it won't be done by our staff it would be done by somebody outside whether it's our um maybe our planning and engineering team as long as they have a certified tree expert or um maybe with a pre-approved that you know they know meets their standards for um whatever the health tree survey is supposed to look like that said I know this state doesn't usually hand select um uh professionals so I put those questions out I don't have the answers back yet but it doesn't fall to our staff is maybe one of the reasons you're asking the question certainly was my question well under the program description it refers to a forest Health survey so who would be the people to F is it a one person survey or is it a community survey how does that work well it's a survey of our canopy our forested areas our Wetland areas anywhere where we have trees would I would assume the right away is not part of it but I could be wrong maybe they maybe it's maybe it is part the right away could be part of it but it's public lands so we would hire whoever this this grant would pay for them to provide this survey of our for so it's it's more of an assessment yes like like a questionnaire Ser more like a engineering servant yeah exactly kind of think of it like a catalog of what we've got long as we're not committed is everyone right with that any questions I just kindly request can we give this information in advance I think this is a second or third time the grants committee has put this on the table like at the meeting and I'm just on the website right now and I see that there's funding available for signage for hunting programs for a health survey for a ven and donation program there's a lot more to it and which is fine but I think it will be much more efficient if we all had time to do a little bit of research on this before we vote on something going forward that's great to go that's always Our intention I have to say um we're a small But Mighty group and um and now we are some of our key members are also fully employed um in this instance we had our meeting on Monday and we under the deadline restriction we we have to get it in by Thursday really Wednesday night there just isn't an adequate amount of time for a volunteer to turn around prepared materials it happens um I'm we are aware of the deadlines certainly respect them just find it difficult at times or even impossible sometimes they will certainly continue to strive to do that thank you um you need something for Alison on that V on you can do a motion to allow them motion someone give a motion approve pending that we don't have to commit if awarded the grant all right so I make a motion that we approve the communitybased deer management grant program um with the understanding that if we choose not to follow through once awarded the grant that we don't have to use it we can return it second all in favor anyone oppose thank you um okay we're still good at the borrow fin um the other day I was at marter Park and I saw this sign about the spraying for the mining bees and then yesterday I was at uh second School helping plant pollinator garden and I spoke to um both Marilyn Schwarz and sha uh they were both there for the PO garden and I asked them that somebody had complained about the bees and if that was the reason that they were spraying you complain about absolutely it was out of control the amount of bees in the back corner of that property was out of control back corner yes when I say corner I mean um it probably encompassed 15% of the entire park covered in ground views um out of control yep and in and in fact I made the complaint and I believe this bur administrator has gr that said to me like not Everyone likes spraying um and I asked three times I asked can you please send someone there to see it and then I think it was DJ that went and he he he sort of looked at it he like that it's pretty substantial was it DJ or was it you remember DJ well these are mining right they're not yellow jackets okay and they're little I understand that so you know that they are not aggressive and they rarely sting and all they're doing is patching out of the ground and getting that company back in their hope for their babies again we're not going to have 15% of our Park covered by ground bees it was it was out of this isn't like a few bees on the ground that I just sign if you're on faan road looking at marter Park I'm talking about marter park right all if you're looking at the park all the way in the back right corner okay past the playground that whole area okay well there was the front was sprayed too then I guess CU that's where the pesticide well if you know if you don't get rid of the bees then the next year they're going to continue to spread I mean that's so the goal was to kill them well we're not we weren't inviting them in for lunch I mean yeah we're trying to get rid of them okay but Josh I'm not I'm not I mean I of what the spray that was used was I think more of a deterrent spray do you do you guys know what the spray was yeah it was time I guess I just it seems to me it was a lot of panicking about not I I I don't know I just not panicking fine to get rid of bees well some bees are protected by law I I don't I don't know that I don't believe those are the bees that are protected by by LW yeah I'm not saying that I don't know well they wouldn't exterminate them if theyre yeah I guess I just reassuring Bonnie a little I don't know I Fe them pollinators I didn't think they dangerous I mean I they do have the ground I mean maybe you want to try to work on the grass growing they they want to be in the soft dirt you just you just mentioned that the the what they used in Kil the bees um I don't think that well I think you're trying to discourage them from nesting there correct you don't want them there I don't want them in the park where we have tons of kids playing whether they're aggressive or not Aid steps on a be they get strong liability for the temp but but then my question is also what is our policy on spraying chemicals in highly trafficed traff parks where I mean to put the sign there it says no children no dogs I guess I just I'm curious what what's our policy on spraying in these really child organic um sorry this is an organic spray it's made of thyme and rosemary yeah I mean make an organic spray too but it's deadly so I mean it's not necessarily I don't know I guess I I just was curious what our policy was I see those signs up the pesticide signs in the parks by the swing sets and and the dogs and I just wondered what the general feeling is about when we spray do we just always spray or we just no in fact the last few years we haven't sprayed and that's led to them you you know making their home bigger and bigger in that Park so you know every once in a while you're going to have to make a decision like that and what's acceptable would it be acceptable if 100% of the park was covered by those bees for three weeks no I guess I just was looking for an alternative to killing them now maybe plant grass because if you have grass there they're not going to be there say like the dirt I don't know I guess but I I I just was curious I I had those ground bees on my front yard when I had grassed there absolutely they find they find spots 100% they find they'll find anywhere they can they keep spreading and spreading unless you get rid of them so there's plenty of there's plenty of opportunity for those be to go to other places within the burough fair just we don't want them next to our playground with all the kids are playing yeah it's not it's not an appropriate to you know experiment with ground bees right next to a playround I just don't think it is it's my opinion it doesn't mean everyone has to share it but no so I guess that's what I gu the policy like who makes the decision you make the decision that spray for them or we as far as policy goes we follow whatever rules and regulations we have licensed pesticide people that work for the burrow and we we hire companies their license and that's why you saw it posted and they have certain chemicals they can and cannot use we're fully within the guidelines when we do treat you know whether it's fertilizer or pesticides whatever the case may be you know we follow you know the the procedures set up by the the Deep okay yeah I did see there two more treatments so right for Saturday and then another one yeah I don't have a schedule I just read the sign but okay just I be not interested got why educate us because it says well are likely these mining be are likely to sing you if they feel that they are that we are a c that's what I'm reading it says that the EPA EPA has actually approved this because it says it risks the risk are next to zero the r of the chemical of a chemical so I'm trying to I guess I've only read things that mind be are nonaggressive and are not not high so they're not like a yellow jacket so so my understanding from what I remember is the male does not have a stinger the female does the female will sting you if it feels threatened so the female be doesn't realize that 5-year-old Gregory running around you know chasing his own shadow is not threatening to it and I am I am telling you they were everywhere this wasn't like one here and one by the table and one over by councilwoman de melli and one back there it was every six Ines plotted all over 15% of the back of the park to me it was a no-brain and I and and um again I can find the email administrator C first pushed back she's like no they're non-aggressive and I said no no no you have to go look they are everywhere so yes anyone else in the public yes since I have guys here tonight just wanted to know if there's an update on the milling and painting hands we with the contractor May to finish up okay great thanks I figured it probably okay thank you anyone else in the public public comment carollyn Fus just texted me and said I I tell weend in paulus has his hand up so and I have ad so let's we'll come yeah if we need to we'll come back but uh you could bring anyone who's next whoever was first bring them in hi Stephanie Adams um just to follow up on what Bonnie was saying um and I hear all sides of the argument um sadly they are organic chemicals but they're chemicals nonetheless they are um considered neurotoxic and so but I understand the problem you know what I would encourage us to do maybe next time is um to do a better job of letting the community know um I was at CLE School most of Sunday a lot of Monday um I read the sheet that was on that that they had taped onto the fence that fell on the ground and the the rule is that the areas that are sprayed should be avoided for 72 hours it hadn't been 72 hours and the other problem is you have these little white flags that are so close to the ground and the children aren't going to stop and look at the little white flag that says no kids no dogs so maybe next time we I mean I know it's an extra step but we could maybe fence off not fence but like chicken wire or some way to close off the areas that are sprayed because there were kids and dogs all over the park for the two days in areas that were meant to be avoided and people didn't you know and again maybe let the community know that we're spraying look for the white flags or look for the areas that are fenced off because it it it still is um dangerous to dogs and kids um it kills fish so we have to remember that you know this stuff is going to run off and end up in the river so just just something to think about but maybe do a better job of kind of letting people know that what what's been done and and uh not giving them access to those areas that's good feedback um and I agree with you I personally wouldn't want to be walking around you know right after they spray and there were kids and dogs Josh all all day Sunday and all day Monday so we we you know we can do better to keep them away from those areas and I know that's it thank you thank you Stephanie Alison anyone else paulus Carn yeah hi everybody seven Colonial Court um the Natural Area is having its volunteer weekend this weekend uh from 10: to 1 both days on Saturday we'll be meeting at the community garden entrance of the Natural Area and on Sunday we'll be meeting at the Fair Haven Road entrance uh we have trees to plant as usual we have Vines to pull plenty of good projects for all ages we could really use help uh so if uh you know anyone out there can join us that would be great and if everybody could spread the word we would really appreciate that too thank you thank you Carolyn you're welcome um I just wanted to say May 23rd the um the diamonds 12u baseball team is um hosting a fundraiser for to help um subsidize some of the expenses associated with their annual trip or first ever annual trip to coopertown um the cost enter the tournament is like $25,000 we've done a good job of of raising some fees so far um for a bigger event to come the 23rd um we sent out a save the date more information to come El anyone else no sir Bonnie did you have somethingone else or no good okay um I just want to make a quick comment uh just uh I wasn't able to be there for like the actual uh event portion of the art show I got there a little late off a plane um and uh they're not here tonight but I I wanted to uh just mention that I thought the art show and all the feedback I got from it was fantastic um a really great addition um to our community I hope that it continues into the future um and uh you know I know I know a lot of people picked up some pretty cool artwork at this event so they some good money yeah and T next oh great that's great um and there was one piece of artwork I would have purchased but it was gone by the time I got there pry two crab claws the one I wanted was the most expensive one so the 25,000 you did that go or no right did um I just wanted to offer a small data point to back up your uh color there Josh there were over 300 plus people um in attendance in Cycles re course not everyone there at the same time on just Friday yeah and I believe anecdotal only one person tried to sit on a Pew is that is that an accurate St I'm not aware of anyone not aw that's what I one 10 out a few oh absolutely just um just reminder that also L live day is on May 5th in the Third Street on the Third Street Trail and it's going to be an amazing event so and I believe it's the same day as the townwide yard sale so is it no that's the rain date which doesn't doesn't make sense to me that the rain date's the day before but no it's the fourth the fourth is the townwide yard sale yes the love where you live that is the fif yes the rain date is the fif for the townwide yard sale or no that makes more sense it does make more sense but I'm not sure it's right um with that being said we're going to move towards executive session 8:46 p.m do I have a motion move second all in favor anyone opposed Tracy are you opposed do you want to stay with us we didn't hear from her tonight uh do I have a motion to close this meeting at 9:24 p.m. so all in favor anyone opposed good night does does it matter