##VIDEO ID:b4x2XULkaZQ## all right let's call this meeting to order at 7:02 PM we're going to start with the salute to the play I pleased to the of the United States of America and to the for it stands one nation God indivisible with liy and Justice please join me in a moment of Silent reflection thank you sunshine law notice in accordance with the provisions of the open public meetings ACT public meetings may be held in person or by means of communication equipment to include streaming services and other online meeting platforms this meeting is being held in person through the zoom meeting platform being broadcast from ball 748 River Road Fair Haven New Jersey public participation for this regular council meeting of September 9th 2024 is available by calling phone number or through Web Conference Zoom members of the public will be on mute until it's time for questions or comments which will be announced at that time the public has the opportunity to question or comment by phone through Zoom by the raised hand button and we'll be called on at the appropriate time notice of this meeting was included in a schedule of meetings which was adopted by resolution number 2024 -3 and sent to the Asbury Park Press in the Two River times on January 4th 2024 post on the burough website the bulletin board and municipal building that has remained continuously posted as required under the statute with adequate notice having been given the bur clerk is directed to include this statement in the minutes of this meeting Alison may I please have a roll call council member call yes yes yes yes yeah and administrator yor attorney CFO brella also thank you um starting off I just want to mention as many of you know um late last week there was an incident in Rumson the officer uh in question is doing well um I just want to point out how thankful we are to the entire Fair Haven Police Department um as always and that will be the only comment we'll make tonight as it is still an active investigation okay we're going to start off with a proclamation random acts of beauty which is always exciting every year I look forward to this um and I'd like to come out there and we'll see who has shown up received their Beauty Awards and I'm going to read I think I'll read uh the proclamation and then can hand these out it reads whereas members of The Garden Club of fairen wrote through town identifying front and side yard properties with Gardens that contain colorful and attractive flowers or horiculture and whereas residences garden plots and businesses were eligible for this award and whereas members of The Garden Club chose the fallowing residences business and community garden clot as recipients of the random acts of beauty award our winners and I think you can come up as I read your name if you're here the bar o'keef residents at 43 daddy Lane she sound too congratulations the hland resident 65 Willow not on Zoom maybe but the Gonzalez residence 243 thir the Lawrence residence 48 Lake Avenue I hope I pronounced this right the moro residence Moray resid and thinking a birthday uh for garden clots Catherine Rose and our business by George [Music] baby thank you to everyone uh we really appreciate all the hard work you put into making um very just a more beautiful place very much appr okay uh we are moving along here into our first Workshop session we have a request for annual lawn signs and a banner from dmer dreams um is usually on call but I don't I don't know if we need to we're welcome to hear from Le if she wants to speak but does anyone have any questions same does anyone have any questions on her request just thank her for yeah Elise thank you you and Dan and the entire foundation for everything you're doing to Fight Hunger one bag at a time I'll make a motion to approve second uh all in favor I anyone opposed thank you uh is that her that was her Elise hi I I just have one question normally we're allowed to keep them up for approximately two weeks um the the big banners what we're trying to do is we're we would like to put them up as soon as possible the banners like maybe in a week or two in the two spots and keep them there as long as you guys see fit just because we're trying to really generate signups when is when is the um is November 2nd no second um we have an October Fest sign that's already there's going to be yeah there's be when when does that go up do we know it was approved immediately and it's going to come down on like 30 and and I think with the farmers market is this Saturday is this that's correct as well um anyone have any issue with us just uh communicating with S one and figuring out the dates for that no I Alison knows the dates so you could we just we'll figure out a it's not conflicting that's good yeah all right Elise we we'll reach out to you offline we'll figure that out so perfect thank you so much new motion to approve signs and DEC conflicting with Allison as just mentioned on the call I'll based on your yeah perfect okay just making sure all right um thank you you're welcome I'm call this today's main event proposed amendment to the tree preservation ordinance um I'm going to pass this one off okay thank you mayor um so I have a little opening statement I'll read to set the context and and frame the issue um so why are we discussing three ordinances tonight uh the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection has revised its Municipal storm water General permit mandating Fair Haven adopt and enforce comprehensive ordinance covering tree removal and replacement this revised permit reflects the growing need for municipalities in New Jersey to actively address environmental impacts of tree removal making it essential for us to find a workable solution our process has been both thorough and inclusive key stakeholders involved in shaping this ordinance include the njd the New Jersey shade tree Federation the Fair Haven shade tree Commission the Fair Haven environmental commission the Fair Haven Natural Area Fair Haven's licensed tree expert the burough administrator and numerous residents each of these groups comes to the table with its own priorities and our challenge has been to distill these various interests into a manageable and fair Approach at its core the issue reflects two fundamental values environmental preservation and property rights throughout this process we've had to balance perspectives of two Prim primary camps on one side environmentalists stress the vital role that trees play in our ecosystem on the other property rights Advocates emphasize the importance of maintaining control over private property our goal has been to balance these viewpoints recognizing that compromise needs either side means neither side will get everything they want but both will have their essential needs met to reach this point we've identified key stakeholders considered their needs and work diligently to create Common Ground the Fair Haven sha Tre commission which consists of nine volunteer residents many of them are here tonight has been at the heart of this effort working for nearly four years along alongside multiple council members and attorneys to craft this ordinance in addition the New Jersey shade tree Federation a nonprofit organization with a 100 plus year history of assisting communities with tree canopy management provided an invaluable starting point the result is a well balanced ordinance that ensures tree preservationists can continue to maximize Fair Haven's tree canopy while also allowing property rights Advocates the ability to manage their land this ordinance acknowledges The crucial environmental economic and social benefits of trees while respecting private property it requires that any healthy tree removed be replaced ensuring the continuation of these benefits for future Generations this ordinance also ensures a continuous planting of new trees which is is not only beneficial but essential for our environment a diverse age range of trees helps reduce the risk of deforestation from disease and storms and a healthy tree canopy actively captures carbon dioxide supporting broader environmental goals additionally this new ordinance generates funding for the shade tree commission to plant new trees throughout the town sustaining Fair Haven natural beauty for years to come in closing I'm proud to say this ordinance represents a balanced approach one that guarantees our community's Greenery will Thrive while respecting individual property rights it's important to remember that no ordinance is static we will continue to review and refine this law as we learn what works best I urge you to support this ordinance so we move forward so we can move forward together for the greater good faing thank you councilman olon uh like to open it up to members of the council um for any questions comments uh obviously this is in Workshop so if there was agreement on this we would move towards uh providing that information the bur attorney to uh provide us with um a working ordinance which is very similar this obviously Within These tweaks we have uh so that we can introduce it at the next council meeting you sure um so overall I I talked to Brian about this I kind of went through a bunch of it I tried to compare it with the original that had been done a while ago go and just to see kind of where the holes were what was taken out so generally I think it's it it's decent I think it you know it it does serve the purpose obviously as an environmentalist I would love to go a little bit further but I think this does cover it the couple areas where I just want to make sure that that I see a little bit of holes was we talked about the Heritage trade there's no Heritage trees listed on here I know that there is a spot that sort of second um don't mind just point out the section CU well it's nowhere it's not on here so um Heritage trees obviously would be trees that are massive trees that have been identified by some group now I talked to uh councilman Olson about this and I guess it's hard to decide determine or there some discussion about who determines what a her who is a Heritage tree I know that the big tree hunt has identified I think six trees so I know that we want to move forward on this this has been forever so I appreciate that this is about time but is there a way maybe to just start with that identification since that was a specific thing that was done for our town if we are interested in protecting the Heritage trees now I don't think that if we move forward with this necessarily the Heritage trees are going to be knocked down right away but I do think that it is important because even if someone plants a tree it it's not going to make up for that 100y old 200y old Parish anytime soon so I think that's one area that I'd love to kind of hash out a little bit um as far as the application process goes I have a little bit of questions about that um so from my understanding some of would come forth they would fill out the application it would come to the burrow now in here it says the person who will obtain the applications will be decided by Chris and the mayor now I that I have a little bit of a question about because every other position in city and also within any kind of council commission is appointed or with our approval or our reference um recommendation to so I kind of would want to make sure that we know who that is or have a clear identification of who that role is going to be before we move forward um the other thing is I would want to see the application with the next ordinance just to make sure that we're voting on like I would want to make sure that the application is as clear because I know sometimes there are questions about our applications in general too so I think that's going to be an important piece of this so the next ordinance next version I'd love to see the application with it um so I guess who is it and then also just like how are we I know it said that the police would be the ones who give out the tickets or you know the fines but how are we guaranteeing that people are really doing what they're saying they're doing so I guess I would want to make sure that we know that they're actually doing it someone had mentioned to me what if there was like they have to put money down if they said that they're going to plant a tree they have to put money down that we hold it and then once they get a tree they have to prove it to us and they get the money back I know that's a lot of back and forth so I don't know if that's feasible but I just want to make sure that we are actually people are following through and I don't know if that's tight enough here like if that we know that that's happening and also the other thing is the maintenance of the trees to make sure that people who are planting the trees are actually maintaining them and know how to maintain them so they're not putting these trees up and they're dying within two years because that didn't that doesn't solve any of the problems with the tree or like doesn't help with the trees have last point I think is addressed in there I think they have to maintain it for twoe they do but like how do we know that they think coming with pictures to show us are they you know and also like how can we help them in that way is that a function of maybe the shade tree Commission because they're giving recommendations on the types of trees is that some kind of form they can give like here's the healthiest ways to keep Tre you know just is that somehow we can help that along so a bunch of things are all good can I start addressing sure so the first I don't know people have copies but um item T in the definitions is a placeholder and that is put in to to handle specimen tree which is another word for Heritage tree the shade tree commission did wrestle with this issue um like Council M melli said it's it's it wasn't clear about how to decide what type of trees are Heritage trees who would make the determination how they'd be treated and we started to sense that it was going to drag on the debate for a lot longer and so we decid we pivoted and decided that the best would be to get something in the books to generate revenue for the shade tree commission to start planting trees and we'll deal with that later I mean I agree I think it's a a tough topic to nail down it's not impossible but I think the shade tree commission is excited to work on it I have was there any discussion about the big tree hunt I mean is that like not official enough as a identifier of a Heritage trade it's officially in the books right I don't know you guys but I think it's recognized by the state for my education big tree hunt like like my neighbor has a big tree and I I can make the rec or do you have to do it for your own property the property owner has to agree property owner has to agree to the big tree hunt so I guess what we're talking about here is I doubt if the property owner wanted a big tree hunt tree I doubt they'd be Lo looking to knock it over so what you're talking about is the next owner potentially of the property or a developer or having an issue with the tree that's the or if it becomes diseased and ages out but that's covered I think disas that's cover I think you're bringing up a great point we just couldn't come to a in solution if you if you have something that you think needle open would know the only one I'm aware of is a big tree hunt but I do know that that so Mammoth County does have a program I forgot what it's called where they uh say it's something like if a tree has a diameter that's within 70% of the largest tree of that species within the county it's special yeah um but I mean the question came do you is a is a Heritage Tree by age or is it by species with age or is it by size or S so it gets really hairy and that's why we decided to put a pen in it get this done and keep working on it what what what is the big tree hun dictate a tree to be is it that culation like that that's my understanding that's the big tree H the same yeah okay there BS and there are people in the room who can give us more information on that but that it's very um Mutual there is no it's not nobody shows up and designate to Tree on your property against your rights and say do you know if you like your tree yeah we would like to call it out and put it in the catalog of big trees the the the the only issue I Pere because you're only playing six trees and you're saying the owner makes that designation is the next owner and I'm just throwing out the uncom idea that someone buys a house and that we're talking about an even bigger older tree which there probably be more concern on all on the house and and they might they might you know you know where I'm going with it so they might need to come down you're saying if they get in in that situation in that unfortunate situation that homeowner might want to take their tree down and that's when we would get into this situation um but I guess I would ask the question of in the current order how would that situation be handled right now so I think all trees are there is no specimen tree they're all treated the same if you will right so there's no designation so as of right now someone would just ask for you know put in a permit and it either get approved or not approved based on the he of the tree and then if they didn't like the answer they would come to us and yeah the current it's the current form current form okay so on the application forget jump in if I forget something so the application I know Christie's been working on it she manages that process there's a current one I think once this gets passed if it does we'll take a look at it and she can ramp it um the tree application process is one of the four that's going to be overhauled with sdl so we can work on timing timing with that so I just wanted to Dre I'm sorry I was just gonna add to that to to that point will the electronification of that also help with the responsibility of the um person planting the tree to demonstrate the fact that they've planted that tree will be will there be an opportunity to upload photos Etc to document the fact that they followed through in their commitment to to Michael's other point I'm going to say yes yeah we have to bet it because we can set the process as we want the timing all of that so if there's followup also delivery vehicle for communication and education right so yeah I'll make sure we come prepared and is there a way to like just Sor like close it out like it's still open closes out once theye all that right now on her own so this should support her something something to look into alleviate the back and forth right we can do the automate it more yeah check check sounds good and let's see what else did you have on there the so they the person that approves the application um so there was discussion with shry commission about who that person would be and we sort of had a long conversation um and the conclusion was that if we said it's going to be ex person what happens if in 10 years that person is no longer suitable to make the determination so we said a compromise would be that it would be a a person appointed by the buau administrator with the consent of the mayor if you want to make it the consent of the governing body I'm I'm fine with that I didn't didn't think of it to be honest um that's fine but to give exibility that let's say it's the chief and the current chief retires and the new Chief we don't we don't like what's happening there the B ministrator would have the power to change the person without changeing ordinance why wouldn't we just make them part of the Professional Service folks right that that bench list in the organizational at the re meeting that's I think that's worth saying the same thing yeah right yes so well we have a licensed tree expert in contemplated in the ordinance and there is a burrow designated licensed tree expert is the one who is responsible for doing the large tree removal plan yeah yeah no understood I'm just saying when we Appo the Professionals for the year that that individual right oh I see is ceremoniously accepted um and what else did you have oh in terms of you know making sure the tree lives yeah um it does say that they have to keep it alive for two years and replace I mean my answer just good faith I I guess I trust people um to do the right thing um I mean it's not to like I'm terrible keeping aive so it's not necessarily doing the right thing but you know I I I suspect that people that are planting a tree want to you know if you don't want to plant the tree in L of planting the tree you can make a deposit to the shade tree uh fund and they can plant on your behalf basically but if you decide you'd rather plant the tree I assume you want it to be alive yeah um you know I I don't know how to make it airtight did you have anything else I have one thing too I tried a recommendation for sort of what you brought up and you're you're bringing up I guess the the [Music] um the process is slightly different if it's a street tree yes or if it's a clear cut correct yes okay so in those situations couldn't we treat you said there were six trees to the whole burrow that qualified as the B there's eight I just pulled up I just pull up the registry that we have eight trees that are considered big inheritage Tre those eight trees the same way as the street tree and the I don't think that would make a difference so the the street tree is a lower threshold to trigger the ordinance 2 and a half inch diameter at breast height if it's not a street tree which is anything else it's 6 in so if it's if it's a really small tree basically you can you you operate outside the ordance um and if it's large whether it's Street or not they're treated the same so a big tree you know you have to replace it with four trees or 4,000 you know whatever and that doesn't it doesn't get at specimen tree okay I like where you're where you're going with it but I I don't think there's a distinction there um I'm going to go back to just because it's reminds me of that topic the enforcement section five here it says that the ordinance shall be enforced by the police department and or Municipal officials of Fair Haven so that can just be anyone in general I guess I mean I would defer to our attorney just that one seems not soic like not specific so I don't know if that needs to be I mean I I would like you know police upon code enforcement officer I think it should be designated unless you're going to have the administrator out there I mean could do it yeah I think that's fair okay yeah it's fine there's um the Shad commission did struggle a lot with when you move to the Penalty schedule um which is basically double if somebody's trying to operate outside the rules um the the penalty if you will is doubled and if they had operated within the rules um and how is that is that a lean on the property is it you know small claims for you know I don't I don't maybe you know I don't know how that is enforced but something we talked about we don't we don't know yeah a summons or I mean I don't have any issue with you know the summons the whole W process it'll end up costing the bur much more than you know forc them to lean the property and to go through the process or to wait for someone to sell the property and put it you know as L pendants yeah I would be more inclined to allow it for just your summons you could do a court appearance required uh summons and then do you write that in there I don't do that yeah AB um and also I just want to make sure that so if someone did just clearcut or did start doing work like how are we catching you know like how do we enforce know that we get phone calls yeah so can I talk about clear fing because that was a big topic that that there was a disagreement on several things but not about um how to prevent clear hutting right so that was both camps very much were favor that and what the ordinance says in plain English is um if you're going to remove more than four five trees on a lot um and more than 20% of the canopy you need to have a report done by the Burrows tree expert um and you once you take the trees down that are going to be removed you have to put Snow fencing around the existing trees so that the heavy machinery doesn't kill the roots and you have a delayed death of the tree um and my understanding is there's code enforcement people sort of on site for those things quite a bit and that's when they can they can say you know you need to fix this or that but who's like our code enforcement I like that would be the cops well constru Construction Construction code and the ultim the ultimate result if there's failure to comply is you can't get a certificate of occup that's the that's the the rough um and the the licens tree expert does the report um the the dollar amounts involved for clear cutting are quite substantial if you're at if you're doing 10 trees and they're large you know 30 $40,000 uh is certainly possible um sorry Blue's running who writes a report our engineer or our licensed tree expert so then we're paying for that that I don't know how that works I don't mind jumping in on on this aspect would that be acceptable no of course so I I I love that we're having an open conversation about these you know property rights and then the collective value of fees and the benefit to the community as a whole keeping the balance or at least struggling to find the balance and um um the there was a a piece of work that was done in the first effort with the committee some some members in are actually part of that committee and still part of this one we struggled really hard to figure out how to make this pay for itself currently the taxpayers pay for the license Tree Experts reports and visits to the sites and everything every part of it that's administered except for the application fee that's paid for by the applicant so this was you know this is to me this is a start it's actually you know we're not not we're nowwhere near a complete ordinance even though all of the good effort that's been there's a lot that we still to do for example um I really think we need to make sure this thing pays for itself whether it's the applicants it should be specified who's generating the report and who's paying for the report and i' hopefully we can into account the fees that are paid by the landscape companies that I think they're $25 annually um they have to come in and get registered but if we can take get an accounting of those fees plus the fees that are paid by the applicant no one going to pay for the just and look at the hours that goes into administering it make sure that that's none of those costs are falling off onto the taxpayers it's dual we spend some time on it we just don't have it addressed in here but you would grab with other issues and have addressed them but it's just a piece that you know when we get to an administrative review with our lead staff and and a legal review with our Municipal attorney I'm sure they'll be able to advise us as to how to chish it but I just want to insert that conceptually as something that needs to be accounted for in this when we do get a final ordinance to review approve we're just talking though specifically about a official report from from like Sherry for instance for a clearcut right that that was the original so couldn't we just put in in in there's a certain mechanism where you know if she has to do that report the applicant has to pay for the report absolutely I mean I that's what we're saying though because in the way it's phrased here it's vague it doesn't say it was paying for the cour they're saying report it's done yeah but the only part I understand about that is you say like we're not close to a working I I'm ready to introduced next meeting like I we're talking about tweaks right now they they the shade tree commission put in a tremendous amount of work into this ordinance um we've received a memo from them stating as such that they're they've endorsed it uh it's far better than we have on the books already uh currently we've been struggling with four years so now I don't have any issue with um passing ordinance and then continuing to improve it but I I you know I think I think we have a great here I'm so thankful to everyone for the hard hard work you guys all put into this this is fantastic so Andrew definition L I think that's we could put that in the I have a couple small things is that it's okay um when they get the application do they automatically get the ordinance with it I just think that might be a good piece we do okay um and then in D um under I think section definitions or no it's um see replacement Alternatives placement alternative protecting protection of existing trees so replacement alternative protection of existing trees um this might be a little big as well so it says that they have to put the snow fencing around it like what what you were saying and then um acceptable to a construction official and or burrow engineer is that where are we d d it's towards the back protction of existing trees it's like two pages from the back I mean I guess I I get it could be construction official or Bor an engineer I just want to ensure that it's definitely happening like this this triggers this person goes there you know like it's not and I get that you need some flexibility but I just want to make sure that you know I'm I'm more worried just that it's consistent that you know they have the same interpretation of that should look like so I think that's more just yeah I don't love and or that's why it's kind of vague like it's like if the construction is I mean is that something we designate some one either construction official or so this is this is this is one of if I can piggy back because Define construction is it a construction that is approved by the planning board is a construction approved by the Zone like I think you need to Define what construction is and that will help and form that well you have to tell me well I'm looking for recommendation right like is it an addition is it a is it a tear down is it is it new is it just redoing the inside of my house right like well and would it be on them or would it be on our engineer because construction could be like their construction official no no it has to be I know it's on us but like construction officials defined means the municipality's construction Department director or his or her dis we have't specific Construction I guess it would be new construction or new addition I'm I'm good with it I think we just need to Define it right because if I got in my bathroom technically that's construction right and redid my bathroom yeah but it's an addition that's causing them to clear theut trees off otherwise it's just a normal you're going to Define Construction in the first line where it says in connection with any construction correct so Capital C well I suppose has do with site work maybe an equipment on the site well and think and think about this right I'll use my house examp because I'm I'm going through the process right now right I have a maple in the front of my house the drip line goes to the patio over my driveway it covers like the entire like like front of my house so I'm doing an addition in the backyard I'm going to have to redo the driveway but am I allowed to do that right would I be allowed under this like what's the practicality of that we allowed to do what rep place the driveway is it as of right did you get a did you a permit from I'm confused by the question what does your driveway have to do with the so if I'm doing construction right right on my house I'm do construction right now do an addition replace the driveway as part of that work I have a tree in the front so when it comes to protecting that tree the drip line far exceeds either side of my property so then this is saying can can I touch my driveway can I yes so you can yes but it only has to be during the construction period and then you're removing right but if my critical root zone is 2 and a half times the diameter right yeah just defined right whatever that is and or the drip line and I have to place a protected barrier around that I wouldn't be able to walk into my house right now you can put a door in the fence I'm just trying to think of like that's what sparked me with it when I hear construction what is construction and what about this so that's this is part of the reason why to have some flexibility because you can't solve for every scenario right in the world so I would say my interpretation is you know you do the best you can and if the tree dies you replace it right that's the that's my that's how I would yeah I get it I just I I would say that you're only protecting the trees that are going to be impacted by you're not obligated to put up fencing everywhere but you're only obligated to protect the trees that are potentially gonna have equipment near them because you want to prevent that correct so so what I'm saying is is based on the math of the critical root zone or the drip line yeah right yeah that pretty much covers left to right of my property yeah so I couldn't put I I wouldn't be able to get equipment from the front of my house to my backyard because I would have a barrier and but you would use your driveway well yeah but I can't take an 8ft excavator through my house right there's a 10ft open on the side but my canopy extends being on that I wouldn't be able to get on I'm just I'm not tring to be difficult yeah that that construction project may may kill that tree I mean and then it's a you know then it's a you have to replace it and that's what the GC said they said no matter what you do what would have what would happen right now I would die and replace it so we're better off than we were before no no I I I agree I just I I like to think through practicality right and to me when I say any construction that's ambiguous and an ordinance can't be ambiguous right so that's the only thing I'm saying sounds like Andrew's got that yeah another point I want to talk about the Large Scale tree removal there was a topic I want to point out for Andrew and and to the public is we've the shade tree commission um we are sort of thinking the way zoning variances happen where if it's a large tree removal there's an obligation for the applicant to notify the abing neighbors and let them know um that there is you know a large Tree Project happening so I don't know if that's if that's uh so you're talking about a fo notice well we said a buding property okay and if it needs to be 200 ft instead of a buing there's some sort of notification that's only for large large scale really learning about trees tonight well serious you are just like rattling get remal Clause Clause to notify the abund neighbors yes to let them know hold on you know so if a developer comes in takes down 10 trees is there a question whether we should keep that because I definitely no it's how to implement it and is it legal oh I got it yeah absolutely it's legal but so you want a notice to any AB buding neighbors or if it needs to be almost like like a exact we we were in the from the direction 250 directions fine is that is that lens or is it just a notification no because it's like the whole yard behind just notification process property get you get the list from the burrow and you send it out do we make it certified though because it does it does add something but certifi here you got 40 homes around and you certify 40 pieces of mail it it adds up and maybe that's a deterrent we're looking for but I just want to highlight we're talking about passing the you know the LTE cost we're talking about passing certified costs and I understand that we're we're trying to make it harder to take a tree down but so that's and section 3 A2 and then R numeral a regulated activities I 3 A2 okay 3 A2 Roman at 2 wait that's a certified letter Y so if that needs to be AED or 200 ft or or certified not certified you know that is a okay uh just three comments Andrew for you and first like seriously well done there this been ongoing for years um the amount of work Trace you put in last year the amount of work you put in this year the sh Tre like like well done to everybody involved in this because this is not easy um Andrew in section four for exemptions um I was talking right about this can we make it a little bit clearer like in a storm so like if a tree comes down into storm like you you don't have that fear of rep question of well hey could you have propped it back up and St it would have been okay like I'm not trying to be funny right but I remember house some Third Street with the storm Aus hit their porch right so just given the flexibity natural occurrences right perfect um that I want to bring up one thing Hazard tree all right so Hazard trees are trees that are dead or not safe and the only person that can decide at Hazard tree is Fair Haven designated licensed tree expert and if your tree is a hazard tree you don't have to plant the new tree or pay the fee that's sure that's the you don't have to pay the report or the fee yeah the fee so if it's a dead tree you can take it down you pay an application fee but you don't pay $500 or whatever um if it's a healthy tree it's not a hazard tree and you can't game it it's licens tree expert then you doing replacement right but here's the reason I'm bringing it up right from an insurance practicality perspective tree falls on the roof as a homeowner it's your responsibility to prevent any further damage and remove it right right whether you have a leak whether you have something coming through your roof you got put a tarp over Etc right so with the resident on third who had the tree fall from their neighbor's yard into their porch we're not going to wait for the LTE to come out and say you know what it did fall right so like in that instance I want to make sure our homeowners know they have no fear of repercussion yeah get the tree off your house and for damage I agree can we put in there though that have pictures taken as well because that did happen once last year where a tree guy um claimed that the tree came down of the storm after they were caught and it didn't that's right so they need to provide um next I'm almost done um appendix a um and I'll look Ander for you to Echo or challenge or whatever um for the approved list I believe the shade tre's done a phenomenal job of upkeeping like a website and a document on this so I think it' be good just to reference a website that's maintained in monitored as opposed to an ordinance which we know that these sometimes very back page so my view is appendic is owned by the shade tree commission cop that they can they can either say you can't plant these in basis trees or we want you to plant these trees this is how you take care of the trees trees are super valuable whatever they want to say totally get it all I'm all I'm saying is is is we've seen where state has trumped local guidance right we've seen where the lists have changed and in order to preserve um the the accuracy of the ordinance if if the lists that are maintained by those professional bodies are referenced as opposed to actually putting them in it will keep this cleaner longer yeah I agree yeah uh to reference to State Statute I mean there's there's the stage statute the shade tree came up with the list I forget the Google drive or the Google Website there's multiple you can get that information from Christie and the Commissioners in sh Tre sounds good um and then the last one that I wanted to bring up if coming back to specimen what if on the application for the tree right when you submit an application you identify if it's a specimen or Heritage tree and if it does then that either Sparks it to go to like the shade tree for a review or to the Govern body for the de we're talking eight trees I'm assuming it's eight residents out of 2200 right so it's what % okay even less residents impacted right so what if what if that was like was that was that discuss what if that's a happy medium um I mean all angles were discussed my instinct is again sort of put a pin in it that sha tree I trust you guys you you guys spend all the time in meting I trust okay and we'll we'll sort it out it may take a year or two though I it's a complicated topic yeah and we've been a lot of us have been looking at other towns ordinances I've been looking at ones in North Carolina and Indiana they have designated Heritage trees um I haven't seen that um I've seen other little silver do that in their new I believe they did sometimes a tree historic it's like the two that are planted on by Centennial Hall um those were planted in Memorial I think back when it was renamed by that one but they're not of a dimension that makes them spef a Heritage but they do have a cultural historical significance sure that brings up a good point Council mcole brings up is this supplies to bur property trees as well me State requires it me private and public property everybody so how does that work just because there is no mention specifically of the burrow like obviously we have to follow this but it's not saying like we're not going to pay I mean we're paying ourselves like well there's one point in here and I can't pull it up for you and I know you want me to where um it talks about the burrow having the ability to remove trees especially if they're of a hazardous uh if they're designated as hazardous which is something our insurance requires us to maintain a list of hazardous trees and a schedule of pruning properly or removal so I I just want to I don't know if that one's to be separated just because a hazardous tree that's in the public RightWay or on public land while it falls within the jurisdiction of the Sha Commission because it's on public land it really is managed um by the burrow officials so you I'm adding to the things that need to be captured and addressed in a way that you feel as appropriate as our attorney but that's an ongoing function of of staff for um really to keep our insurance properly kept up um different than a hazardous Tree on private property which obviously needs to be removed if the applicant come if if they apply or if it falls on its own so the only but the original thought was there's a place where it talks about how the burrow removes a can remove a tree but it doesn't say the buau was responsible for replanting and in that we're requiring residents to replant for removal maybe the burrow should also be replanted more or less or by creating a sh Tre trust fund but it doesn't happen as as a one for one um if sure if it can be considered as more intentional then it would allow the shet Tre commission to kind of continue to track and catalog those trees um they are our major resource center for tree related information we should hold bur I going to say one if we want to make that explicit we could expand the definition of Resident q and include for the purposes of this ordinance includes the bur you didn't go to law school I read are you just are you just Esquire or JD oh what's the difference again sorry JD is a graduate and that's why actually example that I just want to see how that would work with the buau so not to bring up a that's good topic but properties that we own so say 21 Fair Haven Road or the property that we that got pretty much clearcut recently how would that this ordinance avoid that from happening again my me of this is this isn't protect trees and or even clear cutting it doesn't prohibit any there's just a application process to allow and you correct me if that's not the intention I think it does protect trees it protects it protects the canopy not individual trees so that in the are planting in the are planting yes that was the and possibly the eight Heritage trees that are out there as an idea but exist but there's no if I read it correct IR L I didn't see any prohibitive action It Go a step further and say one thing that did trouble me is that it looks like an applicant either a person I think it was stated resident but a person or company can apply to the street tree which is in the public right of way and really only the municipality really has jurisdiction over know that they I think they can apply but the they can apply to remove a street tree but it has to be approved Let's see we just talked about that today um I just don't know why we would allow EG one to remove a street tree unless it happened to fall into that hazardous category and was a problem to our community in which Cas you capture been dealt with by staff every time they apply they have to pay that's the first thing the second thing is they have to apply it sounds like that can be denied and there's no appeal process so if they want to apply a second time they have to pay so no no tree shall be removed until Municipal officials have reviewed and approved the tree removal application and issued An approved tree removal permit what why would you grant a um well let's just say a worst piece the Builder comes in and says you know I want to put my sale sign there and so I permission to remove the street train which feels egregious but and so this Builder makes application to remove a town street tree say it's the Town Street Tree Street tree can just be like all of my trees on Kemp are within the right away yeah so that's considered a street tree then yeah so they could be removed someone could make that application to have them removed because they are in the right way so why would we not allow a resident to because the right of way is public domain and the tree is performing a public function but he planted it I planted the tree it wasn't there before is that your property still it's it's like a permanent easement essentially the way you look at it the right way but does the tree become your is it still your property my property but you could the town can use it as they wish and you could remove it I'd have to make an application cuz MH and what are the criteria for approval so it says there's different criteria for um large tree removal and non-large tree removal and the criteria is that you meet the requirements of the ordinance which is you're going to either replace the trees Hazard trees or make a deposit to Tre cross spot there's no criteria it's just I want to take this one I'll plant some new ones or put some money in there Tre out that's corre just any tree could come down as long as I'm willing to put some money in through that yes but that is the those would have to be approved they have to be approved the but there's no but in general there's no reason there's nothing saying you can't there's nothing protecting any trait as a dis is that that's your point right if you're defining it as black and might of saying you can't yes but you have to look at the combination of the mitigating controls to prevented no but no it doesn't matter mitigating controls like if you want a tree down you're going to get a tree down you just have to be willing to pay the money or put another tree up I think that's the G which is um I don't think it's f it is it is but and we could talk about it more obvious my sense the reason just a moment and I'll stop talking to City um you know back to the bigger question of property rights and Community rights to simplify things something that benefits the public and the individual property rights this is this is the nut of the debate how to get it right um I'm not saying I have the answer but it's possible that we may need a little more protection than what this proposes if the first ordinance feels like it went too far for some maybe this one is gone too far the other way for some as well I don't I don't know whether it's Heritage trees or leave the street trees to the municipality um I I don't know that an individual whether it's a buildo or property on a yeah I'm struggling with that one but maybe I need a little more time to think it through it doesn't seem right but an individual could make an application to remove a street tree but that's because I look at it as having a public benefit that is more about the neighborhood and Community as a whole you also have to look at it and you know unless it's has a disease and a threat or something you know obviously then it someone wants to plant different types of trees a different type of barrier um so our current ordinance you can remove a tree and there's very little of any penalties this so this is taking it to a step where I I I have to actually look at whether you're even allowed to because issuing the summon this would exceed our maximum allowable as for our enforcement f for the fines I mean you're talking about fines of $4,000 I mean that's I didn't see that it's a consequence of magnit you know it's a consequence of magnitude is how you know courts uh you know well take the trees on Buttonwood for example you know I I I do have a question and CHR I want to give you time or the cherry trees what I'm trying to wrap my head around though is and I and I mean this in the most respectful way the Sha tree chopped on it you had multiple different stakeholders from state county and they all assessed that this struck a balance right yes okay but it has to be a balance that we agree is accurate for the community as a whole right but aren't they all the professionals though isn't the the the trees well hang on like the shade tree is like appointed members right that oversee all the their commission right then the D is is a state entity who else did you New Jersey shade tree Federation right so all these entities are like aren't was involved aren't they at the Forefront experts like of this space like I I'm not trying to be funny Brian but like yeah and like I'm I don't I'm not one personally to like I'm all about practicality but I'm not like to challenging like what they saying like I guess it's worth having a conversation because I see our street trees is fine not just a benefit for the private property owner but for the public as well and maybe I'm the only person that thinks that way but that's part of what I'm contributing here tonight and if it has value it has value if it doesn't it doesn't my only question is all right so you said that the cherry tree the cherry trees I don't believe are on anyone's personal property unless I'm thinking about trees the bun with trees I understand your point I guess my argument against that would be you know they had to take down some of those trees on bun wood um obviously I live on bun wood just throwing that out there um that that were diseased so they had to get rid of them I mean the residents on bwood sitting there begging for more trees to be planted in the place of where they were not P I don't think there's a resin on bun would drive you know developer anyone that doesn't recognize the not only historical significance but the impact of those trees make on the street so but that's not really the role of like when you're not specific I'm but I'm giving you a reaction reaction to the action um I'm trying to think of when you talk about Street trees across the burrow I don't see this as as big of an issue as you do I don't think there's that many significant Street trees actually outside a bwood drive that are going to NE necessitate us to most of the Street trees that are in are actually put in there by the residents that live in the house so so but I guess to trace it to counil C the point is that they if they did so choose they would come and there would be nothing that can tell us not but they would have to they would still have to follow the the replacement schedule which is better than what we have right now they don't have to leave the CH Street trees have provide shade and lend to liveability and walkability there these things it's not just about yeah um and it's to me it's an important point where we're talking about the public right away and and maybe that's unique not it's not a private property it's not a park it's where our streets and sidewalks are and totally get it that's a unique Corridor that probably need perhaps a little special attention because I don't really have the answer tonight I'm not coming to propose some specific language around it just think it is a unique we we we all think that Treeline streets led to the beauty and liability of fa and I don't want to see it become easy regardless of the fees and your point about the cost uh I don't want it to become easy to lose Street trees this is the thing I can go right now and cut down any Street tree I want and all you can do is follow the ordinance and write me maybe a disorder person's offense but that's S as truth right so this ordinance puts in more protections in place but if I wanted to go cut down all my trees all you have the ability to do is issue me whatever type of find that the ordin that the current ordinance provides this is more specific I don't think you can take down a street tree just I no no and I'm but to be to another level I can I can just cut down a tree like like we say to do this though this is the what we have to do so to say like yes but by the state we have to do this at a minimum we have to hand this this as it is in because we can't do any less than this well hold on we have a tree ordinance as you know wait right my first question for our attorney would does the current ordinance we have meet the state's storm water regulations no that's why we're doing this are you sure which are the components that caus us to fall out of compliance but no one to review that I mean it's fa question Jos but what why why is the current obviously like years ago we set out on a path to redo our ordinance because the current ordinance is Antiquated and lousy so why are we talking about an hold ordinance and whether it it it um meets it meets the criteria of the state when we have an already much better ordinance sitting right in front of us that we just need to tweet and that's why we're sitting here in Workshop today to get it to a uh point of introduction at the next meeting and I'm not even saying that after the next two meetings when we um actually vote on it that we don't continue to discuss it that's like every other my living breather it's a living breathing document but to to to here and and rest our Laurels on the old ordinance I mean the old ordinance has just given us all grief the entire burough of fairhead going back years I'm very specific about the things that I don't like about our current ordinance I can list them for you I don't like the appeals come here I don't like that our taxpayers are paying for the reports I don't like that it doesn't pay for itself these are things that can be addressed and should probably be in anything you decide to do if it's going to be new but understanding what ways we are not in compliant would help us make sure that we're doing what's right for failen as well as considering the the statements is to one of the important things to note though is this ordinance that's been presented by the shade tree and and Brian is that would be in full compliance with the state law so that's one thing to go off of if we want to add things and tweak that as the mayor said I'm all for it do I think we're going to be able to in this at the next meeting absolutely not we're going to have to work sh this one more time I'm just being honest with you um let me put this into ordinance form yeah take into account everything that people have stated tonight and let's Workshop it again you know I think 23rd is the next meeting yes is's a couple more um at least sorry one yeah no I I just wanted to say I I I I don't when I first read this ordinance but one thing I don't want to lose sight of is that my first takeaway when I read this was that what this what this ordinance does is it essentially creates a succession plan of constant trees young medium Ag and old so there's constant planting of trees so while yes the homeowner has the right in this ordinance to either replant or put money in a trust which then goes toward more tree planting at the end of the day this ordinance is actually encouraging the replanting of new trees so to me this is almost like the way you would run an organization you want you want young analysts coming right out of college you want mid-career folks and then you want some folks who have been in the organization for a while that have institutional knowledge to me this is exactly what this shade free ordinance reads and and yes there are going to be some tweaks that need to be made but I am not at all taking away from this thinking oh my God the homeowner can do what they want I'm thinking oh my God I can only imagine what fair haen is gonna look like in 50 years it's gonna be it's going to be green it's going to be Lush it's gonna be beautiful that's my takea away so thank you to everybody who worked on this and it was a tremendous amount of effort thank you I wanted to um and and I don't I don't know if we want to stay in the weeds here for much longer but um the trust fund there's language in it that says it will be used for the replanting of trees which is what council H was just saying I do agree with um and maintenance and I would suggest that we strike maintenance as it's not in the spirit of the replanting and I also we all know the removal and or pruning of a tree costs a great deal more sometimes I five 10 times more tree we want those trust fund dollars to go far right now I don't well I push back on you um I would argue that if the shade tree trust fund could spend $110,000 on maintaining a thousand trees and keeping them alive let's say there's a disease or something um as opposed to they're forced to just plant wake of the tree for the disease to die and then replace uh fewer trees I would I would defer to them let them decide it's it's a passionate group that has a lot of knowledge I trust that they will decide how to allocate their money in the best way they all want I'm on the thing too we all want a large canopy helpful and I I wouldn't want to restrict them I agre so right now um we have the Department of Public Works that does help maintain our trees and canopy on public lands and that's what their budget and their specialized knowledge and Manpower and that doesn't change yes so uh again I would suggest that maintenance shouldn't fall which could e those dollars could easily you know become misallocated I'm just thinking that ideally if we use it for just planting it doesn't get exhausted by maintenance and it doesn't say if they have M says they can use for as they see Fish I believe it says maintenance it says replanting for maintenance so it gives them the flexibility to decide how they best want to use the funds well that would be one of those ones I'd want to come back to if you're and you're I hear you insisting um but maybe I could talk to some Shan CH finishers and see what they have to say about it apparently you know it could cost $7,000 to remove the tree I don't want to see the trust fund used to remove trees under the GU of Maintenance it's not in the spirit of I want to see the trust fund use the way that the shade tree commission feels best if if the shade tree commission feels its best to remove a cherry tree plant a new one I would be in support of you know that allocation FS so if a cherry tree is failing that presumably is going to show up on our borrow list of um our hazardous inventory list which becomes a burrow responsibility that is already accounted for in our budget under again but not all the time we're going have 81 car Road what have on but with Drive we're still sitting there without trees well that's for planting I think that would be good to use the trust fund to plant the trees but the trees were taken down already the maintenance as well I I and I think we the the shaper Commission they're going to need some professional guidance that planting trench is going to need to be specially designed it's not as though the commission can just go out and putli some you know frees in there but um they do have Sherry or a Sherry to help them with that but I don't know how much money we're going to end up in there and I also think we should make sure we have it's used for PL pleas this is all about maxiz and canopy I'll just leave my position there we don't need to debate it that's my position at alone in that so be it I thank you sure um utilities Trump the town so like jcpnl leases I believe so that's an exemption it's a part of the definitions if it's utility and ideally we don't have any say control anywhere that utility lines when it comes to trees and planting right correct okay I just want to make sure because we we had yeah thanks i' one thing that hasn't been said but maybe it's understood um but I think for in terms of enforcement personnel and cl assessment I just while I know our Municipal attorney is going to work on this I would like to please ask directly our Bor administrator to look at how best to staff handle enforcement where that comes from you know hopefully it doesn't need a new employee but maybe it's an expanded role for an employee want to factor that into our decision making thank you good good thank you thank you and once again thank you to everyone for all the hard work you put into this ordinance uh absolutely fantastic and we look forward to uh you you know as as councilman Hoy said this is an investment in the future maximization of our canopy and uh the next generation of Fair Haven you know 10 15 20 years from now we'll see the dividends uh uh you know from from the hard work and effort that you all put into this so thank you very much really appreciate so mayor I have a question if the Shader commission members that are here want to comment on this discussion they do that at the public comments on agenda items only we we still through uh moving right along here two more Workshop items proposed 2025 council meeting dates um I'll open that up to anyone if if anyone has any issues with any the dates as presented I'll jump in I would like to propose adding one of these meetings uh maybe on the summertime at the fire department um I think the council meeting we had there why there's room for improvement such as the meeting location everything offered a phenomenal time for uh education discussion and whatnot so maybe a different time of year yeah upstairs yeah and air conditioning that hot lik having it there if folks are cool with that I'd like to work with Allison and and Chon I only picked up one thing um have the whole rest of the calendar for 2025 but there's a a school break um that ends just the May 27th proposed meeting date um if we push it it's very hard to go away on vacation and come back immediately the next day and be prepared for a council meeting um some of you with school AED children you know travel plans are dictated by Le kid school schedule so that was the only thing I picked up that if we pushed out May 27th um8 well that I'm open to any suggestions I thought it could push it out a week but then we'd have to bump the others right now it's all sort of ideas but leave it to Alison really but the day after is kind of hard it's Memorial Day right that problem two weeks there you get June 23rd what about just the Wednesday yeah we could do that does that help it a lot we could do the Wednesday or we could push back the June 9th and June 23rd meetings one week because there's a 3-we break between June and July either scar we want do we want to vote on the Tuesday do we want to vote on the Tuesday I I personally I don't I don't mind to Tuesday it doesn't it doesn't bother me but up to you guys I it's okay with me we can do May 12 one meeting in May and three in June is that what you're saying yes if you if we were to move it it would the 27th would go to the next week so it would go to like June 2nd and then you would move the 9th to the 16th I think that's is that another break oh sorry no it's like snow day and then You' move the 23rd to the 30th and then you would have a gap between the 30th and July 14th you still have a two week break that's a good idea yeah Kristen would that work for [Music] you three in June the three Mondays in June the second 16th and 30th the third is the primary election the 30th third of June uh so June council meeting and it goes till 1 o' and I have to be here at 5 got to so do you want to just keep it where it is and we we can get a where we can let's just keep it as it is then we can get a quorum okay if we have to amend it as we get closer we can yes um the one I flaged was just that in January seems like a big break between the 2nd and the 27th year it's the way we do it okay yeah why why why why is it an or do we have to choose one second or the 6th of January well th it's a Thursday and zoning board usually meets then unless they push out so we have to reorganize within the first seven days of January so the first month would be the six because the fire department swears in on the first no matter what right so we don't SE September 22nd is a ro sh I'm fine with it but there might be members of the community I miss or not and there's a 3- we Gap there so I didn't know if you wanted to move that one back member 22nd so the 15th instead it's September 22 no you'd move it back one week to like September 29th September right yeah that's yeah so you want to go the 29th that would be what I would recommend unless there's a conflict there and then the school I sent the proposed um school calendar so that I could set up the student government meeting they're looking at March 10 that it still has to be R by the worth noting Mar 24th is my daughter's birthday just you know very important we already had discussion about this so during the day then you can have dinner at night yeah depends on them but March 24th you say March 10th is the no one it's not set in stone that's I'm waiting get back I got you all right any other everyone's good with that changing are we meing 27th or we don't we decide to leave it and we'll figure out if we have a forum when we get closer guys and January 6 January 6 and then September 29th if it's good all right moving along funding for fist Chapel parking lot Paving um know if Chris or Drew CH actually have Nancy talk first ncy can explain it okay so we have to um obviously discuss the funding for fist chapter when this was originally discussed and the idea came up that we were going to be responsible for the improvements to the parking lot um a phone call was made for a bond Council and just stated you know we do not own know um documents were presented or anything of that nature based on the information that our bond Council had that we don't own the property they at that time stated we could not use any bonded Capital um it would all have to be paid as you go fast forward we're having meetings Eli brings up the fact you know are you sure we can't use Bond Capital it's a permanent easement um so I went back to bond Council provided all of the documents that we had regarding that and they advise us that we can use B capital um with that being said we have a couple options uh currently everything is encumbered under pay you go we have 40 well not numbers but we have our soft cost for the architect and then we have the hard cost for the improvements the amount that we have encumbered for the improvements there's concern that it may not be enough um so and if we use the rest of pay as you go then we're using the rest of pay as you go which leaves nothing for any other P purchases so we have in in my thought we have three options we can you know first continue using pay as you go um number two we can reappropriate funds from ordinance 2023 uh there's currently funds in hard costs and soft costs that can be reappropriated and still leave enough funds for what is remaining um or three which I think a few of us that have had conversations about this field is the way to go is to use a mix of pay you go and bonded Capital uh reason for that is it allows us to you know use funded capital for a portion of it which is a good thing but it also doesn't use up all of our pay youo Capital uh we didn't do small ticket items last year for department heads we would like to be able to do some this year there's some requests out there that are valid needed so we don't want to use all the pay you go capital for the fist Capital Parking L is there a recommendation from the finance committee on this um so unfortunately we have not been able to get the finance committee together in a meeting so there is not a formal recommendation that's administrator York and I uh did have a brief discussion with Drew just because he happen to be area you know we are all of the thought the three of us are of the thought but it it you know the mixture of PES youo and bond of capital would be the best way to go but no unfortunately we've not been able to yeah just to to add on that we um we are looking at dates to get the finance committee uh to get together this month so we will be having a meeting with them uh to discuss the 2025 budget and obviously it's one of the item we discuss as well and the reason this is coming to you as a workshop item is because no matter which way we decide to go we it does require an ordinance as we all know ordinances requireed two meetings and we are going to need to move forward on fist chap as soon as it's ready so we don't we didn't want to hold this until we could get the committee together when it would still have to come to the full Council so we felt it was better to just bring it right to you um so this way we can get to our bond Council let them know what our thoughts are what we want to do and move forward with the ordinance I one think it's necessary to retain some down yeah and just to give you an idea the the added expense um that we found uh for doing that parking lot is do a storm water mitigation yeah yeah that's a large part that's a large portion um which was not backed in originally um but you know speaking with Eli the architect there is significate storm water mitigation needs to go on that property so that's where the added cost comes from uh does it involve we could talk about it another meeting involve tiin you know what we'll just the engineering conversation for exactly right but the tie-in system is under the parking lot where py is so if they upsize that that would go it'll help but that would go to the PD that would go to PD yeah there we we we don't know yet we haven't gotten anything back from we haven't got anything back from Rick leer we the church 3 weeks ago right remember like like this is pure this is this is extremely proactive which is is great I love it um okay so then the next question is um that we need to discuss for seconds my recommendation is 40 pay as you go 60 on the hard cost soft cost three main under pay as you go hard cost 40% pay you go 60% um Bond of cap what does it leave what does yeah what does it leave left over soon that cost 300 Grand what how much money's left over we're if we're just sticking with what's currently encumbered yeah we are left with just over $200,000 in pay you got no can we talk sorry can we talk numbers so what do we bond for and how much more are we talking about this over that cost so we're not um the recommendation is not to bond for any more funds we're not we're not looking to add debt um right I think she wants to know so currently yeah currently we have uh 2.65 million in hardore costs available in bonded capital and then we have 2.5 in soft cost for bonded Capital my recommendation would be to reappropriate some of the soft costs to the fist Chapel parking lot pay as you go we currently have 340,000 total encumbered 40 for soft cost 300 for the improvements which would leave us with the remaining 200,000 in P youo CAP sorry so so I understand we had original currently I'm I'm sorry Kristen the original estimate for the parking lot improvements is 300K is that correct 250 okay and we're we're anticipating that this new estimate is going to come in significantly higher than that we don't have a final estimate the reason why we don't have a final estimate yet Kristen is because um we're still in negotiations with um the elders over at um right the fish church because um they're still not 100% sold on the parking lot design and they're still so is it hard to make a determination as to what to bond sorry where to pull from if we don't have that estimate yet are we talking 100 Grand 200 Grand 300 Grand so the recommendation would be go my recommendation would be to go to the higher amount if we don't use it it cancels back to where it was and also keep in mind that we this is not permanent financing so until we're into permanent financing this is all not so it's it's a lot easier to give to a project and then if that project doesn't require that then we just don't do the permanent financing can I just ask one clarify question um if 40% of 300,000 we drew down from Pig Go's capital what's left so what 4% thanks so 136 it's 164 plus 200 that leaves us 364 364 Grand in page go capital and that covers both small ticket and any large ticket items that covers small ticket and any yeah well any large items any yes and that doesn't and that that 360 and change whatever it doesn't include the 75,000 Poli card right correct so that's already Tak that's already incumbent SE okay are you looking for an answer right now uh I'm good with the 6040 split Brian I mean like I think that's appropriate yeah based on what I heard have to have at least 200 yeah as you go so so then what I'll do is I'll reach out to ju Council he'll work up an ordinance it will be presented can we reach out let's talk offline and we let's even get updated cost estimates yep and it also be good to know if if they're going to upgrade the Stormer infrastructure PD to off storm fist Chapel what that extra cost will be as well well that but that would be that would this remain under no but it still would be good to know that yeah yeah just making sure yeah yeah no no understood right and that's because I know there's three I don't know what you call them Rich M but three things in the parking lot under the ground thank you three recharge thank you do we have any do we have any I guess foresight that this might happen and I I know that we paid was it 25 30k for the for the parking lot originally did we have any foresight that this cost would have ballooned to be what it is now the the estimate that we received last year was $250,000 to enhance the parking lot as discussed this year it was assessed that that wasn't High Enough yeah design wasn't part of the original Cy there it was minimal right but it is it is smart to upgrade yeah how just the trigger word for me but um so oh my how do we avoid that moving forward though like why wasn't that storm water piece of it in these plans well the storm water piece was in the PB Community Center plan but not in the this Chapel parking lot plan so that's not that's not it's not that's not entirely true right so so there were storm water enhancements made in the infrastructure I remember that after further discussions with the church and the amount of water that they reveal is buting up against the facilities the burrow didn't want to leave it a chance to be liable that if we didn't upssize the storm water causing water damage to the buildings so that data point right which was predicated on a conversation with the church didn't come up until two months ago right it was assessed that the storm water infrastructure at the PD was more than enough to handle it yeah um and to add if the storm Mor infrastructure at the PD is upgraded and you can effectively tie in the uh use the word um storm drain yeah the storm drains from the chle to there then then the storm infrastructure price will increase the PD not at the church that thank you that's helpful well I we I was I painted the basement and I know that that major issue yeah it's a chapel yeah chap um this is now the public comment on agenda items only portion of the meeting please try to observe a three 3 minute time limit please stand identify Yourself by clearly saying your name and address for the record and I just want to mention that it's 8:32 the Jets game's got to be four plays in I haven't got a text that the quarterback went down yet so that's a positive is there anyone else with a public comment on agenda items only still anyone sure come on make me feel bad oh no no that's I was just making a joke I'm not I thought you were saying I thought you were saying it wasn't nice that he said I'm still a Jets oh yeah no okay are you a Jets um I think I should take wow um I just wanted to um the the point that everybody wait thank you for all your input and reading through and all the basic questions um the specimen tree when I read the current ordinance it does cover we have significant specimen and specimen in here um and when the H enforcement officer and the um designated by the administrator are looking at the applications they consider that that is a consideration whether it is a speciman tree and I think it still should be because they are just so much more important and I the um uh big tree hunt that whole that is something by the state I think that's mostly just awareness for big trees and to make people proud that they have one on their property I don't think it was ever point was to you know limit people or or make it a restrictive thing it was more of a pride thing and a recognition so I don't I think that right now it's it's trees 10 uh inches in diameter um that are considered a large tray um or this 60% of the largest tree in Mammoth County which is always kind of a I don't know how who identifies that I mean I almost think it should be something that is identified every year for every species of tree or something so this easily found to compare to um I do think it's very important that we have something and I know there are several M of the sh commission that agree with me that it should be included in Nows um it's in here now um in what we have um there are a lot of considerations in here now for why the pr should be recommended not to be cut down and I think that what has happened is that the license expert said it shouldn't be cut down so then if you begin to appeal to council and you didn't want to say well this you want it down if it's dangerous or you know so I I just think it's um should still be considerations for large trees in our ordinance and I hope that you can incorporate that in here I mean and as much as I appreciate that Drew you call us experts we're not experts I mean we are just residents that were asked to look at this and I think it's super important um when first time that this ordinance was reviewed uh great Canon reviewed the whole thing wrote All This legal document that then was sent to this group to review um so I think the legal part of it is super super super important um and we can't really move forward until that you know you've done a really thorough job to make sure that you know this is protecting and I do think that you should look hard the one that's on the books because I don't think it's that horrible the only thing that's horrible is that we can't the fees aren't there we we have a tree bag um but it does talk about storm WEA it does you know so it's not pointless um but it would be great to be able to get these to plant new trees and also I kind of agree with Tracy saying I really do want to use it to plant trees and we kind of have to make a commitment at the town because in the past I don't think there was a planting trees was embraced because they or we to water them but I think we need to kind of change our attitude that is a really important thing and we need to get that water truck out there we need to give to DBW and say not add on to their word but make this an important part of their job to you know take care of these trees I they work really hard to do it I know they do um so anyway that's just my question Bonnie what was um you'll knows better than me bar was pretty high on like the not don't we like compared to consideration here too is where the tree is and what camp is around it and that should still be a consideration I mean I look at this s station I mean yeah if and when that ever happens there are two huge o trees that are right there that probably should have been protected and um it's going to be they're going to there not many trees around that area and they're right on the street they're quite there um so you know little silver has spent a lot of time doing this ordinance um they have a really good ordinance in place and I know right now they're scheduling a meeting with their um tree uh experts like the people C trees the landscapers to explain the new ordinance and really try to get everybody on board um and I would love for um now our bur administrator I actually yeah Kevin Burke actually reached out to me regarding it they're doing two they're doing two of the same sessions one's on the 23rd that's Cil meeting night they're doing one on the 30th um so I actually might go over and check it out I think the lovey has worked with other towns and really try to coll I that if anybody's interested in I can send the invite out thank you B anyone else public comments on agenda item Alison Mark Mark hey Mar hey can you hear me okay yes uh so I applaud my fellow Minnesotan for putting in lots of work my fellow for putting in lots of work um I think you know it's it's strange to sit here and agree with everybody even though it seems like some of you weren't agreeing with each other I think everybody in the Council made some great points and um I I love what Kristen said about the you know that you know taking a longer term View on the Third Street Trail we planted a couple of pin OES in April of 2022 they were 3 feet tall at the time they're up in the 12 to 15 foot size now and they're going to exceed some of the other um trees that we planted in there that at the time were 10 12 feet tall so it's amazing and those were like 25 to $30 trees so if you can just get some money and get some volunteers to plant some trees around town keep them watered that first year or so and just let you know God and time just do their thing it's not even going to take 50 years in a very short order you're gonna you can start to make a difference in the canopy um and towards that end I'm just trying to encourage that if you could do this thing when the applicant comes in and they have to stroke some sort of check you can work out what that check is and instead of Code Enforcement money and time trying to enforce that applicant or make sure that the applicant did the thing just keep the money and put it on the applicant and the applicant proves it and sends a takes a picture and sends it back and proves that they planted the tree there's going to be plenty of applicants in town that really aren't going to plant a tree and they really don't care about a couple hundred bucks or whatever that fee is take that money redirect it buy bu some smaller trees let volunteers plant them and water them I mean it could be a beautiful combo I don't know what the exact dollars would be but I I try and encourage you to go away from going down the path of code enforcement and then you know trying to hit them up with a fine and all then going to court and that's just going to be a disaster I just think getting that money upfront like in escrow and have them prove it and then have that money get redirected there will be Vol plenty of volunteers that'll help plant those trees around town and maybe in on private property too so I applaud you guys great work um I know it's a pain in the neck and there's more steps and I love what Josh said too about living and breathing it's just a living and breathing doc document you can amend this and just keep on amending it and keep on improving it so hats off to all you guys it was great work keep it going thank you Mark Alison anyone else hands up all right thank you oh yes Michael D'Angelo shade tree commission 36 I've been on the shade tree commission for about 10 years uh and I have an email I was just looking through my old emails uh an email talking to Chris Rodriguez in 2017 about this ordinance that is currently implemented the thing is that we are always worried about we've been talking about this Tracy for uh four years this curent or had no teeth and yes it does mention a significant specimen tree and it does mention a specimen tree but I don't think anything was done to protect those trees throughout this ordinance um the ordinance that we have now I believe again it's not perfect but we are committed on the Shad commission we we've said this in our meeting time and time again that it is a living and breeding document we're going to constantly look and review and see how it's working in this town but I really think we need to pass something soon to start getting money in our poers to start planting trees right that's what we should be doing and develop near canopy and heat map you're right is an issue but we do have a lot of open space and fair too but I do think we need to start getting into action because we've been talking about this for so long thank I want to give a special shout out to Mike de he was on the committee when I got there and I was not there at the Inception so I know that that work was on going before I even arrived at the committee and you've been there the whole time and just one resident to another putting in the times greatly appreciate you thank you anyone else Alison we're good no okay moving along approval of minutes August 12th 2024 regular meeting do I have a motion to approve Mo second Alison please have a roll call Council memb PA yes tell yes yes yeah yes uh thank thank you August 12 2024 executive session and then the 20 uh 20th the special meeting do I have a motion to approve motion second Alison I please have a roll call yes kist sorry I just dropped my phone yes yes yes yes thank you uh sdl update filed by a facility update councilman La bar yep so councilman cotch and I uh and bar administrator Chris we uh we had a kickoff called sbl um we are unlocking um all processes associated with clerk planning trees generator um and we'll be sitting down in the near term to start putting pen to paper and updating the applications and they'll be coming back here so super exciting stuff um can I have oh sorry yeah I just wanted to ask a question about this process because I don't understand it the D how you convert it to digital I don't really need to yeah except I know that um many of our some of our ordinances which are going to end up on this platform need linging up um and I'm sure we all agree now it's the time to do it we don't want to bring over anything that's out of dat or inconsistent how are we capturing that yeah um it's a great question um so the process that's been discussed to date is working with staff to help inform based on all of their engagements with residents how the application process needs to be improved once you have that then we have to see is there misalignment in any way shape or form of the ordinance and it's not going to be clean it's it's going to be what's the first one but there were four that were identified from the council it was Generator it was tree removal it was fence and it was I remember this Zone um what we gonna do Zone well they all require it right now well and that was that was why we had unlock that because the fence permit requires that right all the other on everything yeah but anyway well if we take one at a time and uh kind of I'm hearing myself sign up to help but I also don't want to because I know how uous this is going to be except I know that the work really needs to get done properly uh he just going to start and then see how it goes and yeah because the the the way it works is every module within sdl has a primary point of contact I'll call it so the clerk module Alison um then I think Joy L's gonna be put on one and then Nick's gonna be put on one like there specific ones for them to inform go ahead is it Street opening oh is that number four I can see the list of my head but I just I don't have I'm sorry I don't I don't have um I'm trying to avoid uh I guess at some point when it's going to and maybe you need to think about this but there's going to have to be a group on it to kind of debug the stuff before and then it'll come back to us in form of an ordinance to be amended I mean we kicked off the introduction meeting and we got signed our training reps okay so first first order business to understand like how to put the processes together it's very Plug and Play like the issue isn't going to be putting together like the operational workflow these the issue is going to be like the misalignment with the ordinance the issu is going to be hey this applic the current zoning application we really should have three one specifically only for generator one specifically only for fence one specifically for like like that's where like the real conversations and the conversations has been centered on like empowering the staff to come up with the recommendations since it's done the lines and then you know cycle that up to to Betsy I and then come back to the governing body Council just like we treated any other groups okay yeah it has to come back we're not going to put um I'm not g to say that we're not going to put a automated workflow on a bad process right exactly okay the pH upd uh Chief I'm put on the uh what happened we have the opportunity possibly to get rid of the uh radio tower um which we did not have the opportunity a year ago project started uh there was some stuff we need to uh align make sure we work and in if years that will work uh but there's a cost to it right so that's why we're here in par but um it gives the opportunity to get rid of the tower gives opportunity to be on a better uh more reliable radio frequency um it gives opportunity not to have to maintain pain our our radio base radios as much because they won't be our primary radio um and there's a cost already to wire the building to the tower which would not we would not have anymore so there's a moving in around $200,000 for the current work much 7200000 7 to 100,000 70k to 100K the other thing dispatched by the county uh we are still on our own frequency um out of the 25 or so towns that they dispatch for police and I think that just AG 25 you know around 25 pwns uh us and Middletown are the only two that still have our own frequency which my understanding midd toown is about to change over to the county frequency and will be the only one uh what's going to happen is sooner or later they're going to tell us if you want to be dispatched by you will be on our frequency which this would solve that problem that's coming down the line just not right now the cost sorry before you get to cost just to rewind the tape the council last year we we looked at getting rid of the tower we wanted to get rid of the tower right both aesthetically all that the tower impacted the placement of the generator it impacted the placement of the condenser for the community center it imp acted the Landscaping so so by doing this and we don't know yet because we w't have the conversation first it's going to potentially unlock additional efficiencies and whatnot right you don't need the tower it on top of the roof you don't need the concrete pet anymore the condenser doesn't be there you can increase Landscaping so can we get a breakdown of those costs before we make a decision or no well I know what the cost the approximate cost for the new system is about $200,000 but you would not have to spend the 70 so it's SP 130 more than what you'd be paying because 130 and then but it sound like there were some efficiency if if if if and I've been talking to the architect and we didn't really go too far into it because until we know he get rid the tower if the tower stays there'd be no reason to move the generator and the condenser because the tow matter if you the tower we're going to try to see if there's a way to move the generator and condenser so it's not the C no I'm not more I'm not sure that can happen but you don't think you don't think when we're the last ones left the county is going to incentivize us no way what they'll do is they would say yeah I think they would uh that that's I had what they would do is they would that's what they would do they would other towns they loan they basically give loan AR rangos they say here's some laner radios that you can have right and the question is when you have a laner radio they own it you can't put what frequen you wanted mean we could put robs Bill silver or re um that's the problem owner radios the other thing they won't do they won't give you radio for your car so you have portable but you still have to buy the car I am not for it unless we do it right uh there's towns that have done it where they've given them certain things but it's never done right and and and the other thing too is right so the the PD building is on track the PD the building right is on track for completion end of December beginning in January site works right behind right so there's two data points that we have to keep in mind one the tower will come down at some point right whether it's now or within the next two to five years right give or take at some point some point you you're going to have to move through certain correct so and then the second data point to keep in mind is all the cost that's going to be sunk into doing something temporary if we just say to keep going return so yes we can get additional breakdowns and all that I think we should have a sidebar conversation if it'll be money for the Lone Ranger on there um but you think there's any grants available I don't believe for this I don't believe for this I don't think you'd have I don't think there is and I don't think You' have time because You' have to make this decision really within the next month and a half because they would have to they have to start getting ready to that's where we got to move pretty quick and this literally changed the first week of August like there was a there there was a change in August yeah that happened and then she did a tremendous amount of testing and whatnot because he was told theoretically things would work and then he actually went and tested stuff out to like be confident to come today like I said there is there is some County will help you with some stuff but the problem is in it's it's kind of done it's never done completely like I said they'll loan you stuff and um I just say you got to do what you got to do so can we get more information in advance of the next meeting on details so that we can make a more informed decision is that does that work yes actual removement Tower too uh we didn't get into that the my radio vendor feels that that is probably it won't be because probably want oh really okay check and check I think it's a good opportunity we're going have to do I just think that next we have the information but we have to have a pretty fun answer because they have to know before the AR actually text me and I'm sitting back here saying what's what what are we doing we'll take it offline facilities than thanks appreciate are you let me know about that um new business introduction of ordinances 202 24-13 amend chapter 6 7 sections 11 no stopping standing at certain streets During certain times 14 parkit at all times 20 stop intersection 21 multi-way stop intersections do I have any comments or does someone want to make a motion motion to introduce second uh Al please have a roll call yes selling Yesa yes H yes thank you uh 202 4-14 supplement chapter 7 with Section 43 ebike and E scooter regulations um I just want to point out to everyone I believe I didn't look at it myself to make sure it was up here um the we added no cell phones while you were on ebikes you see a lot of kids on the ebikes drive around the the phone so and adults and adults and adults correct I have a question this came up in my life what about the skateboards like that do they count as anything like the E skateboards no okay they don't go I don't believe they the speed right Chief the skateboards hover boards I don't think they go you know what I just passed an ordinance the answer is now El motion motion to approve discussion we'll have second in discussion I'll second no no no we're calling for a roll call so why don't you bring up what you want to bring up before we get there one little thing by the way I think we're in a good place on this I think it's it's a it's a great start um it's it's not a great start we're we're there the piece that we know isn't in here but I would like to go on the record and say because I think we all feel the same way about this is that the education component and hopefully some creative positive reinforcement like the partnership PD has with Leo and slices of pizza for remember to wear your helmet and as creative as we can get um is going to help I don't know be that Spoonful of Sugar that helps his medicine go down because um that's really what I think wins the hearts and minds and changes behavior and really keeps kids keeps everybody safe right we I have also heard about adults on these things recently um I wanted to point out one Nuance which I don't think we need to regulate in here however do we know if when just to summarize ebikes are not allowed anywhere other than the street that's what we're saying and therefore again to reinforce it the education come is going to be key because the kids are young they haven't been interest introduced to the driver's EG that doesn't happen till they're 16 so we're going to be depending pretty heavily on our PD and the fine work they do and really educating people that are under the age of um that are not yet you know aware of the rules of the road there's a I saw ebike in the park the other day and part of the time he was using a motor and part of the time he was just pedaling yeah so I guess it was like what it called like e assist or something like that and you guys I don't have one of these I don't I don't I've never been on one so got like 12 on well that's why I think at the last meeting right they didn't I know it says right on cwalk prohibited now but I think the conversation and I'm for this and support it I think we can get something test today but what we talked about was the inability to discern if someone's pedaling at what point is it classified that the pedaling as the the the great thing about this is the chief and the force they have discretion what exactly understood Just Landing that so that's that's where I landed on this it just wasn't part of the discussion so I wanted to include it tonight um yeah so the only thing I had with they flaged last time is about the um burough property so are they still able to go in the parking lot of fa Haven Fields well it's a Street yeah they can go into okay even if that's part like burrow property yes okay so any street is fine any Street they can't go on the sidewalk there though but like when they are parking their bike I guess they can walk their bike onto the like to The Bike Rack destion yeah just saying absolutely no Trails wait what about Trails no Trails no Trails only in the street so parents need to be mindful about if they kids ready to be operating a motorized two bike in the street I'm I'm yeah I'm GNA make a motion to approve second Alison please have a roll call counc M Paul yes yes yes yes yes uh thank you consider agenda we're talking resolutions I'm sorry mayor Halper can I just say one thing I I just wanted to comment the fact that I'm incredibly proud of us passing this piece of legislation because we're we're at the Forefront of this right now I can't tell you how many stories I've heard in recent weeks across the country about horrible eite accidents mostly within the teenage group but but Al life-altering accidents that have changed these children's lives IR irrevocably forever and so I couldn't be more more proud of the fact that we're at the Forefront of this and in fact I've had many college friends reach out to me and say what exactly are you putting in place our town needs at our town needs it our town needs it Massachusetts Texas California I mean all over the us so I I'm just so proud I just wanted to say thank you to everyone for for for passing it and everyone for working on it thank you can there's one note I want to follow on usually when we adopt a new ordinance at least a land use ordinance customary to send it with the county and share it with nebor communities before they even ask it might be a good idea to share this when uh consent agenda 202 24-20 through 222 um before I ask for a motion does anyone want to separate anything from the consent agend well it's 200 and 207 sorry about that 200 and then 207 to 222 the only only comment I'll make uh mayor is 2019 Allison keep me here the chapter 159 or excuse me yeah that's the Project funding Grant right that's the 1.25 million for the community center coming from the fed and then 221 chapter 159 for Bend all has to happen so at the next meeting we can authorize the contract all right okay that's all I wanted to add any want to separate any other comments do I have a motion to approve motion to accept Alison may I please have a roll call call yes yes H yes yes yes thank you uh Department reports July 2024 tax collector August 2024 municipal clerk dog license do I have a motion to accept the reports that submitted possibly with a thank you motion with a thank you all in favor anyone opposed all right this is the good of the burrow portion of this meeting please kindly stand and identify Yourself by clearly stating your name and address for the record please observe time limit three minutes Perkins how are you Perkins answer so just a quick question on the E things I think it's great my only question is upon the third and subsequent offense the juvenile opor is sumon so 10-year-old Johnny gets F $250 oh that's 10y old Johnny what's his leg responsibility a person Count's been a problem all over town thankk you is it the Minimus yeah anyone else in the public no you can I'm assuming that you're Meg yeah nice to meet you guys um I'm n Kelly I live at 98 Herber Road I just wanted to address you guys today about propose deer hunt um deer hunt I don't think there is a deer population issue but I know a lot of people do so I just want to provide some other alternative options hunting doesn't always you know it's more of a Band-Aid approach obviously you would have to do it every year if it wasn't because they rebreed and other deer from um other areas migrate back here so two other potential solutions that I think we should look into is one um surgical sterilization which is what think it is basically a company um which is Connecticut based it's called White Buffalo it's ran by Tony Dina Cola he basically comes in darts the deer takes 20 minutes think of how you spay or neuter your dogs um and cats or family pets whatever and uh he does that so you're not you know euthanizing these animals or killing these animals in a hunt um cost rain so Princeton um actually did this with him and he uh estimated a cost of 1,750 per dough so it is um more of expens more of expensive um solution but it's also there the second solution would be um immuno contraception which is done by darting the deer um or with the medication or darting it to you know immobilize it for a time period a hand injection would go in and it's done with one of two medications p DP or gicon so both of these think of it like the pill essentially right some of them have to be done annually some of them done every three years it really depends on the medication the time release the dosages Etc um those costs range between 500 and $1,000 um all these you have to get approval from the New Jersey wildlife and fishing divisions um which can be hard um with surgical sterilization have to get approval to Dart these animals in a 2000t radius any you know basically any Resident living in 3.4 mile has to sign off on it which can be difficult all I think that's all of our residents would be well I think we're in like a two two it's like a 3 to are 200 that's got it okay um yeah that would be really tough um but yeah so that's that's one of the hurdles there one of the hurdles for um amuno contraception which Princeton also did in in a certain area as well um is that only certain people are allowed to do that according to the EPA for gacan specifically it would be um the US wildlife services or the New Jersey fishigan Wildlife so they're hunting organization so some the approvals a little bit harder however Princeton's actually trying to go through with this with white buffalo right now their Council approved it in July um and they're putting in the paperwork so you know just like we had had said earlier fair fair Havens at the Forefront of things right like we just because things are hard doesn't necessarily mean that we shouldn't be trying for this right yes it's a little bit more costly you know than hunting in a onee time frame but over the life of fair Heathen it it might not be from a financial perspective and just for all the people who are animal lovers in Fair Haven or you know don't want it with hunting right you can shoot these animals they can live for a number of hours they can run onto different properties and then you know residents have to see these deer dead or slowly dying which I'm a mom like I don't I don't want my kid being that either um and you know just obviously to try to save lives all around you know not killing deer reducing population over time obviously this isn't a fix for tomorrow if you do sort of sterilizations or anything that the birthing braids it does take time s island did a program um in about a s year time frame they're really proud of it you can look at New York docb um they reduce their population by about 41% so this does work if you're if you're looking at it but um again just something to you know look into as an alternative thank you Meg just to let you know um I finally connected with uh councilman Olen today and uh we we both uh thought it was prudent to send the information that you sent my way to the Natural Area committee and the environmental commission for their review to see if it it may be a viable option for fair because as I mentioned to you I mean our um I think everyone up here if possible would prefer not to have to hunt the animals we do think there is a um you know a issue with the amount of deer in town and I think that was substantiated um by by by numerous individuals but uh you know if this is something that's uh realistic for the burrow we would absolutely um take a look at it and see if we could implement it so I appreciate you bringing it to our attention we'll take know I'd love to be with some of you individually but anything you guys need in the process happy to help on like a consult not like I'm an expert in this but you know just when when uh when we when we receive some feedback also I'll be sure to make sure that we communicate and I've said this before but I as I'm vegetarian so this this is a hard pill for me to swallow I would want to know that we've done our research on other options before we do so I definitely support looking into this a little bit more thank you is there anyone else uh go to the burrow Alison hey Chris hey everybody thanks for uh thanks for taking me and thanks for your hard work uh two quick things one is I I wanted to mention during one of the sessions we were talking about the ebikes just keep in mind I know we were talking a lot about you know fines and and how to manage that and all but I I was hoping um I had to drop off but I was to be able to just mention just keep in mind the the weight of these vehicles with the rider on on the vehicle is is quite significant um you know any kind of impact as as um others were saying can be you know can be lethal um you know it's happened in New York City on many occasions with the city bike um which I'm familiar with driving uh they're easy to operate but if you're not careful uh you know people pop out of nowhere and it it's not an insignificant Collision so it's just something to you know keep our eye on I think it's probably why we're talking about it is the potential danger um but just you know I know that enforcement is obviously a part of all these rules but um let's hope let's keep our eye on on the safety factor I think which is the weight and speed of these vehicles and that's regardless of the age of the driver um the other thing I want yeah goad I to say that's part that's part of the education I'd say that's also part of the reason ultimately we decided they were better off not to be on sidewalks because even a collision with a pedestrian could have really adverse consequences go ahead Chris S yeah I agree 100% too I was going to say the sidewalk seemed a little dangerous the other thing I wanted to do just again in in in full disclosure good spirit I had it way ahead of the holiday season I think we did a great job last year with the manure lighting and the Christmas tree lighting and I was just hoping we could stay on Pace with that this year and any other holidays that come up and celebrate our our diverse culture as a town um and just you know recognize it I understand that the business group does the Holiday Stroll and I think that that's fantastic they should keep doing that and and and I imagine you know they're going to want to do that again this year and and fully support that I'll be there myself um but in terms of what happens on the burrow property I think it'd be great if we continue the tradition of a Christmas tree lighting and a manora lighting and that's that's all I just wanted to get ahead of it it's September I know it's a little ways off but time seems to be flying by so that's thank you Chris and and I encourage you to go to Memorial Park and see the new investment that the Council made in the new burough Christmas tree uh looks nice and healthy and I'm sure it's going to grow uh you know uh to to Great Heights in the future years it will it will I've I've seen it we we planted quite a few trees against our back property both Evergreens and Hardwoods and they've grown phenomenally fast so uh all that discussion about the tree free Planning by by private citizens on private and public property um yeah I couldn't Echo any more than than the professionals and the other participants said a little watering and a little care and these things these things shoot up um with with just a little bit of care so we've had great success on our property thank you Chris thank you one sure Shaker commission has some trees that they're going to be planting and they want our blessing on the location which is Mara Park along the street and then the community center playground we saw that the email yeah was reporting on it any objection no both those places need yeah I have something but it is good to because it's a public public we done with the to the Burrows there are no more hands up um the green team is having their Sports Swap on September 21st from 9 to 12 at the fair at Fair and I don't want to Ste your thunder but tell what that is oh the Sports Swap so you can bring anything you have it's to swap or you can just come and take whatever you need so if you have stuff to drop off definitely bring it if you have stuff you're looking for in the market please come to Fair Haven field and then just reminder the garden party on Saturday you want to sa Thunder but I will be there and I'm excited Thunder I'm wearing this yes get ready for the party great we'll see everybody there I think we have a farmers market this weekend too Farmers Market lot's going on in Fair Haven this weekend we're going need to no is it this weekend is it Farmers this weekend coming it's this weekend yeah yeah uh our next council meeting will be Monday September 23rd um we are going to adjourn at 9:14 p.m. soor we're not any just a real question you approve the um supposed to get back to us on signs someone was supposed to be on Zoom I think they dropped off the for the bed and you're okay with the banner at a few signs is this the p is the governing body okay with us the EV yes I'm deting that's fine love it thank you Miss we are now going to adjourn at 9:15 p.m. uh all in favor anyone oppos no