##VIDEO ID:sGQC54fvyFs## smell like beasted Bur the camera's on the top I that's the C usually this are we on oh I'm talking let's call this meeting to order at 7:04 p.m. uh we're going to start with the Pledge of Allegiance I pled Al to the flag of the United States of America and to the for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all please join me in a moment of Silent reflection thank you sunshine law notice in accordance with the provisions of the open public meetings ACT public meetings may be held in person or by means of communication equipment to include streaming services and other online meeting platforms this meeting is being held in person and through the zoom meeting platform being broadcast from Burl Hall 748 River Road Fair Haven New Jersey public participation for this regular council meeting meeting of November 12th 2024 is available by Callin phone number or through Web Conference Zoom members of the public will be on mute until there time for questions or comments which will be announced at that time the public has the opportunity to question or comment by phone or through Zoom by the raiseed hand button and will be called on at the appropriate time notice that this meeting was included in a schedule of meetings which was adopted by resolution number 2012 24-13 and sent to the Asbury Park Press in the Two River times on January 4th 2024 post on the burough website the Bolton board the municipal building and is remain continuously posted as required under the statute with adequate notice having been given the B clerk is directed to include the statement in the minutes of the meeting uh Christie may I please have a roll call council members Cole here delli here H hot here La barara present all great um before we jump into public comment I just want to um publicly thank uh Mr bletcher and Mr fur um for putting themselves out there and running for counsel um you know anyone that uh you know is willing to volunteer their time to this buau um you know should be applauded and uh appreciated by all of our residents I want to say thank you and I also would like to congratulate burough council president uh Betsy cotch and councilwoman Tracy Cole um on uh their reelection to another three years serving the B fa thank you okay uh we're jumping right into public comment on agenda items only uh please observe a 3 minute time limit please stand identify your safe by your Yourself by clearly stating your name and address for the record is there anyone in the public with a public comment on agenda items only yes uh Bonnie um so I can make a comment on the yes um at the last J commission we left with a few things that I just wanted to make sure were um back on um one was this appendix a that I Brian you told me to take care of it I couldn't get it on the website I asked Chrissy she said lawyers had the list so so we wanted to remove these shrubs and SK trees so somebody didn't put it shrub in so just wanted to make sure did you get that did you put together the the appending well I don't know the lawyers that's what both so I did compile day okay so did you get the notice to take out shr I did not I that is that um that rubs are not in there looking at right now I just s the shap trees small ornamental understory trees that's it Evergreens small oral like crab apple Eastern red bug flowering dogwood next page is on we can't just all speak here but so just can I can I wait just first am iow to well my my recommendation at the last meeting was to Mo was to take off this Al together because the link is going to be the most updated so I don't see why we have to have this if it's going to be keeping amended So currently right now the link that the shade Tre commission has compiled does not have all of the requirements that the New Jersey D requires for tree reservation ordinance which is um the second two problems in exhibit a the website only has the the names of the species so to be compliant with the DP requirements we need to have the planting seasoning and planting procedure recommendations for the species which is why I created the um the list um in addition to the Shad commission's website I think the concern is that though it's if it's in writing then it's if any changes are made to the website they're not going to be current with what's listed with the ordinance well well just want to stop once just foral procedural perspective right now this is public agenda public section right comment section let's let Bonnie speak and then when it comes down to talking about the U ordinance itself then okay then we can way in so we're not wasting you know so I didn't even real Li and we're just trying put the pl so you did all the planting and the planting procedure you did all that where did you get that information the inter I looked at other municipalities that have very similar append seeds in their ordinances okay well we didn't it's not P sh had no control over that so I just wanted make that clear that's you have it right okay so I can I think to it I told Brian that I would that well my recommendation would be to incorporate those additional columns into the website eventually okay okay just you mind if I make a point I was under the impression these are recommended TRS yes they recommend right the thing was that the additional two columns of so these are the trees are recommended and just added the two requirements from the D because that was not on sh so we didn't I'm just saying ultim ultimately though someone can plant a tree that's not on this St right if if you're talking about these are recommended well this is another there's there's there's language says that this is the recommended and then this is the approved list it's it doesn't it's not consistent one offending said I think it's the approved list I think this is what we want native trees it's I mean why are we having it it's it's the recommended list we discussed that like three meetings ago it's a Rec we we made a change that it was that it was um dictated that it was a recommended list and we could not dictate to our residents what type of tree they planted other than I do believe that there's something that says that the um it's two in or greater well then if that's the case if you don't want to give an approv then I think we should have a do not plant I have a list of plants that are forbidden like Norway Mapes or you know invasive species um three of Heaven like that I think we should just add that that's a that's the minimum requirement for the DP is an is a not approved list okay a not approved list corre so we need to have that no that's that would the minimum requirement the bur's gone beyond that bying trees but the minimum for DP is to have a list of things of so since we don't have that we have this that's okay um my second question is about the fees that we have if I take out four 36 in trees and I decide I didn't want to plant any trees I want to pay food that's $88,000 can we charge somebody that yeah we can okay because I do remember there was something mentioned about the maximum are you absolutely positive about this we're positive in our research yes okay okay so we can pay someone can pay $8,000 there's no threshold listen and any any ordinance out there you consume you know Court you like a judge very famous judge in New Jersey once said the courtroom doors are always open so it's a litigious State I I I understand but you know everything that we've reviewed and reviewed other ordinances ordinances we uh reviewed the D um laws as well and that's what we came up with that we were allowed to charge this so there's no maximum that is implemented but I mean any the would be challengeable by a resident for non for being unreasonable or you know something like that it's the typical argument for the amount but there no Lim it's an arbitrary cous that you know like full unusual punishment So to that um so um and this the street treat issue legally the street Tre are protected in our new document is that the trees are owned by the bur and so they cannot be C down the bur would have to apply for the permit Forest the the B would have to abide by the rules the only you know I I don't want to talk about a situation that we can't imagine right now but the only conceivable situation about the trees that I think you're talking about where we would look to putut down a tree like that is if it was you know dying or you know in in some type of risk risk risky situation yeah and I just want to make the just one last thing right now ate ordinance we have in some instances we have considerations that if a tree is in a spot that has no other canopy or it's going to affect storm water the code enforcement officer has some discretion right this new ordinance there's no discretion there is no um appeal so I just keep thinking about the Soka station and the fact that they're going to take those two huge overes Down based on what I remember from the planning board diagram that's going all the way property um even when I called them they said they're going to save the trees but I don't know how it's possible based on the plant um so I just want to make sure that nobody here wants any sort of way to say hm that's not really what we want um because we will not have it and I understand that you don't want to do the appeal process anymore but it is up to you to say well we do want the shade tree commission to do that that's the the way I would to answer you is I saw the old tree ordinance and I saw the result of that at that gas station and what that tree looks like right now and I don't like that result either and the second part of that what I would say is I don't think necessarily over the last four meetings you've heard that from anyone up here even that supports the tree orance I think what we've said is we agree on the components of this Tre ordinance right now and then when this tree ordinance passes we're going to continue to look at ways to improve it and that could include something that you're speaking of we've been very consistent about I would just make one note as in addition to what the mayor just said that that particular site is unique because it was part of a a lawsuit with some larger issues that were outside the municipality's control to a certain extent um because I was watching those meetings closely I doo am concerned about those trees and others like them that serve as buffers particularly between say mixed use and residential which is the condition we would have there and there I even suggest read it by a few of the people there might be a way to capture um that that situation so that we're not running into commercial property owners taking down important bucker trees I mean that's not really residents property rights that's kind anyway I just anyone else with a public comment sure 32 pis Street and um the police station is being put together right across the street been nice really slow nice um and my understanding is that the end of this tree in front of the church is going to be widened and it's going to take out at least three big trees and I just want to encourage you to make sure how you going to repair that rtick trees one of them looks in pretty bad shape the other the other two don't look to be in such bad shape so when the landscape I don't know that's that private property of the church uh once that sidewalk goes in trees are going to be put in they'll be on the front lwn of the church and Pastor Greg didn't really know anything about it so he's really interested in knowing you know what's going are we going to try to accommodate some more Shad some more trees on Fisk Street and then yes it's it's one for one so whatever's being taken out it's going to be replaced I'll I'll look back at the plan to confirm that okay but whatever was taken out and I think there's three and I think two out of three are diseased because I think we had Sherry look at it let me no not yet then depending on the side of the tree you might get more than one for one once the new orans tree that would also be replaced from the perspective of the appearance so down there's a whole landscape plan I'm we're we're we're adding additional trees that aren't even there but I'm pretty sure the ones you reference in the street trees but I guess since we're wide in the street I'm pretty sure they're going be I'll take a note and is the Landscaping plan ready yet to okay it is we're going to have a kickoff uh I still have you and um Terry um because we we wanted to talk about the shading not using the word shading that's not the right word screen screening thank you yeah it's it's on the list once they get to the site work component we've already informed the entire team that we need to have a kickoff discussion look at the Landscaping because it's been what a year and a half since we looked at it make sure the proper screening's there make sure it's all there we just had the sign off from the chur sech for the parking lot that's going to go there so now we can finish the Landscaping on the rest of the property so it's great I'll get it thanks anyone else public comment Court I just had a question about uh Street trees on River Road those are owned by the council right and this doesn't apply to them right they do what they want which which street trees are you referring to on River Road that's County Road own this the trees in the right way so the county would have to apply if they own the trees to take the trees down corect that would not happen would having lived on River Road I suspect I haven't seen that you know in the years that I've been around it's hard to uh comment on something on the unknown you know a project that might be taking place or or some sort of issue where um you know a tree is dying it's in the way of in traffic I don't know just wanted to make sure that was like considered in this like said having lived on River Road but I'm not sure they count as this persons they are mean any individual resident municipality burrow Corporation utility company partnership perm Association combination there there are municipality is a municipality municipality count is just to confirm is it the county municipality I no but I mean they still have to comply with our ordinance even though it's probably more stringent than you know the County's own you know ordinance okay Carol if you recall um when they wanted to prune the trees when the county came through and wanted to do live pruning they they reached out to communicate I I think it's in the County's DNA to communicate with the local municipality so um that conversation we know we have a great relationship with johnia from Public Works uh who runs engineering public department so he would normally in that circumstance he would reach out and he would communicate any work they were going to do here in town so we we would know way ahead of time thank just head back to the definition of person so any person any individual resident municipality fell Corporation utility found a company partners ship fir Association combination of any person can remove a trade a resident can never remove a CH so resident is a person but so any person in this context is not person in the context of this because a resident can never remove B Trip right so I'm just saying I think that there needs to be Clarity I think this along that issue along some other issues and it's a it's not the sh tre's document it's the B's document therefore it needs to be clarified using the definitions in here want to make the argument that a ro dendrin could be considered a tree go say the tree is a roed dendrin you're saying in the definition that a roed dendrin could be a tree therefore I could make the argument that I could replace a tree with a TR what we're considering the shr I just think that there should be and Corrections should done maybe I what what type of rendum would have a 2.0 dbh that would have to be a really big run yes but but 2 and a half inch is only this big I could be a 25y old R I can go to a nursery and get one and according to the definition of what's a tree it has a significant caliper with lateral branches whatever the definition is here so a rendin could fall into that category as could a mountain L as could these other things left so someone could make that argument that why someone in the field think that they're tree no that's why I'm saying they should be removed it's just a you just looking for trouble the same thing with this any person it's not really any person it's only the burrow or utility company or and it's not even any Corporation it's it has to be the burrow or a utility company I mean can't think of any Corporation partnership or whatever was just going to be allowed to remove a tree I think Verizon can continue remove a tree if they want I mean don't they have to go through process right I mean depends which utility you're talking about they don't have to go through well they might think that that's what I'm saying but legally I don't think certain utilities certain corporations or companies or Partnerships have the same legal standard as does that's you go anyone [Music] else Mark Ro 19 Audi Lane I just like some clarity on two points the I'm not sure how to reference it but the number four where is right we it says theales to adop and enforce and I it seemed curious that the permites would the respons Mark can you site the section again it's where 14 where yes that is that what we intend I mean we are the bur the burs the perit and that for the MS for permit renewal process that the bur is not the individual no that nothing no that that has to do with the MS that's the ms4 storm water permit the permit is what the burrow the Reas the burrow is doing again the B has have the ordinance to comply with the ms4 storm water that's the Burrows the perit on that resolution ordinance just so it makes sense that ms4 is permission to discharge storm water into to the river yeah yeah and and we have to get our water cleaner and we have to capture as much as we can and the D knows a good way to do that is to put more trees on the ground which is the reason we're here on this topic the second question I have is under there's a section entitled replacement alternities you have a number Say What Again replacement all number well I think it says if I read it correctly the applicant decides the trees can not be planted I'll read what it says for clarity for the record so we're referring to uh 14- 8.7 to replace requirements and under that we're talking about section F which is replacement Alternatives and what it says if the applicant determines that some or all required replacement trees cannot be planted on the property where the tree removal activity occurred and the applicant shall pay the tree replacement fee based on the tree replacement requirement in table a referenced Above This fee shall be placed into the Fair Haven shade tree trust Reserve fund dedicated to planting new trees and maintaining the Burrow's existing trees so so to be clear we've given the either the homeowner in this case or the developer in some case the ability to decide that that the trees cannot be planted and for the amount of money that we've indicated they can just Pony it up and say okay I'm done that's exactly what we want yes yes so we let the Builder decide well not I'm not speaking for everyone but you answer your question that's what the ordinance says I understand so essentially we've left the builders homeowner I'm going to use the builders who for the amount of money we asking I would suggest and I don't say this lightly is a diminus amount based on the cost of the new homes of this town we let the Builder decide well I can't plant those trees boom they're gone and that's exactly what we want is I guess it's not what everyone wants I'm sorry say again it's not what everyone wants I think we've established that based on the debate up here um to answer your question it's not it's not perfect no tree Ordnance we ever have will be in the scenario in which you're bringing up in my opinion if they take down four trees and it cost them $8,000 I have a feeling that that new homeowner is going to come in and plant their own trees anyway so we're going to get the benefit of $88,000 and we're going to get the well you can shake your head but that's my opinion I appreciate your opinion that was really not exactly what I was looking for what I want you to make sure is that there's perfect clarity that basically we've given the right to again I'm only using developers it certainly could be a homeown we've given the right to developers to essentially clearcut should they decide that it's more it's more economic for them they will make more money if they can clearcut and then build so so the one other point I want to make on the point because you I've I've I've answered once that there's differing opinions up here um yes the ordinance lists that but I want to make sure I specify legally I've been told we cannot decipher between the way that developers and residents apply the laws that we create here we can't make a separate ordinance for developers that's different than we do for res that wasn't even my point my point was that we give individuals and in this case I'll say government corporations the ability to decide that they're just going to knock down trees and I'm wondering what the criteria is to say wait a minute not so fast and apparently what we're about to vote on is there's no criteria if somebody decides they can Pony up $110,000 $8,000 or $20,000 that in fact they have the right to blow away the trees I didn't think that that was the spirit of what we were doing well that's how you're that's how you're framing the ordinance there's a whole another side of the ordinance that really encourages a lot of planting of new trees to maximize the canopy All Around Town you're just focusing on one very singular anecdotal situation based on a developer coming in knocking down trees and the way that I would also answer that is we just had a situation and I don't know if it was Granger H where where a house got knocked down and the developer on their own knocked down trees without the permission of the burough and if had this new Ordnance been in Place Not only would we be able to seek um you know the the requirements of them to replace but we'd also be able to hit them with the penalty fee schedule yeah I I um that really was my my point Mar as a one of the council people will be voting on this I just give you a response so you can at least hear from as many of us as you care to but um I personally am not in favor of leaving the applicant the right to decide I think that's a inconsistent with the spirit we'll just leave it at that um I think it is okay to offer a feed in the form of relief if an applicant cannot accommodate Tree on their site um I don't think that that should be extended for clear cutting I don't think that that should be extended for remover of buffers and Street trees have been cleared up now but um that's my personal uh view on a process that is about managing trees not just on personal property but also commercial property so and Public public property as well I don't think it should be up to the applicant so that's just what's on paper so I'll just leave it I'll use your if a if a homeowner decides they can't accommodate that seems to be pretty soft way to approach I don't think I like that tree because that's exactly where I'm going to be sunbathing in the afternoon and I can tell you that that tree is going to cast some light on my body not so cool so I'll take it down I'll pay the thousand bucks we'll call it a day yeah so I would just like go ahead so I would just like to say and I I'll conclude it that that doesn't seem to be the spirit of a tree ordinance which is protect the trees in town I understand that there's some accommodation with that that everybody's referenced in this but in terms of either a homeowner or a builder the ability to just pay a certain amount of money to clearcut it though that that's going to be a great investment for for a builder because the amount will be Minimus compared to the amount that homes go for in this town and I I'll leave it everybody's got to vote everybody's going to deal with their own confidence as to whether or not we've satisfied the needs of the community in terms of the looking field the quality can I say my thought so I disagree with the premise I appreciate the comments which premise was that that the government gives people a right to do what they want with their property I think people have a right to do what they want with their property it's not something that the government gives them so this this is getting to property rights I don't mean to inter but I don't I don't think that's what I said what I said was that we're giving both individuals and Builders the ability to pay money to take down trees it's really quite as simple as that with no interference on the part of the municipality well you seem to be implying that instead of letting them pay money that we could require them to plant a tree on their property and I don't think the government can tell people what to do with their property so I have a question are we going to go back and look at some other ordinances where we tell people how much they can build on their property and how close they can build to other people we look at them all the time we're still in public comment but mayor you're 100% correct and you know I uh I don't say censured but I you know stopped this de from speaking and um we have to we have to get back to Robert's Rules here yes we have public comment it's 3 minute time limits the time for this conversation is and this is for the The public's you know knowledge is at the hearing the public hearing on the ordinance and then it's unlimited we can speak what happens if all those comments were brought up and not addressed that's what keeps happening all these comments were brought so so again the the members of we're still in public comments so I I don't really think it's the appropriate time to have a conversation but just because there's comments made by residents or by members of the governing body doesn't necessarily mean it needs to be applied to an ordinance and and I I don't want to sound like a broken record on it but I feel like I am um it's we appreciate the comments and what I would say which I've been consistent on for now it's five straight meetings is we're going to learn from this ordinance and if we find out Mark that you know three months in oh my God the builders were just waiting for us to pass this ordance and now they're just clear cutting lots and you know they feel like they're Disney Disneyland then then we're going to adjust it and we're going to we're going to we're going to whether that means making more stringent whether it means putting more protection in I can't tell you what that is because the process this process has taken longer than I would have hoped I would have hoped we would have passed it by now and already been into the conversations of how to improve a I'm G say something even though but he is talk so if if if the overriding thought is that we're not allowed government doesn't decide what people do on their property though how would any of these concerns then change like how would then address them and change like the concerns we have that's never going to fall into the framework of not telling people what to do on their properties to have any protections and the protections are to protect people's other the property owners next to the people who are taking down these trees so the unintended consequences of the neighboring I'm worried about all the property rights not property also like to address something coun said which is I lived in not the house I lived in now the house I lived in before my neighbor did some um ground work which resulted in my property being flooded and it was quite clear and I I tried to but you address that the homeowner was not successful but in fact the town interceded and I I prevailed in getting him to change the way the he was discharging water onto my property so your comment which I don't think exactly was what I was speaking about your comment that the government or municipality cannot intercede when somebody does something on their property which affects either the town or their adjacent neighbors is not exactly I don't believe this not exactly what how we want to run the government we want to run our neighborhood so you can't just do anything we know everyone knows that I also but you're also bring anal that we don't know the that we don't know jurisdiction for for how we develop and allow Property Owners to develop land is the jurisdiction of his Council and they'll due respect to Mr olon that is is the function of local government local health safety and Welfare there's 125 years of case law and briefings and arguing about land use laws and trees are sort of new and I don't think it's fair to give trees the benefit of controlling property when they have not gone through the burden of 125 years of case law but it's negatively affecting someone's property this conversation so when we get to the adoption of the or um is there anyone else with a public comment on agenda items only uh Christie anyone onine if you do please use the raise hand feature if you have public coma on agenda items there are none okay thank you uh moving along to approval of minutes um we're talking October 28th uh special meeting October 28th regular meeting October 28th executive session um did you want to change I'd like to make a motion to amend the minutes um to reflect more accurately what my concerns were about the tree ordinance um instead of just summed as soil erosion I'd like to have the list that I said my prepared statement as it was noted you want me to tell you what those are should I email them do you want us I'll say what they are okay for a second perhaps so that do want okay do I need a second I don't know how this I don't have any problem with add second be a discussion discussion okay um so the things that I would like to be I would like my list to be added in so what I said was the builders are over cutting clear cutting uh lack of protection of Heritage or specimen trees larger old trees that are healthy effects on storm water management and soil erosion Aesthetics for neighboring properties effect of decreased shade covering effects of overall look and feel of Fair Haven the survival rate of newly planted smaller trees and the lack of oversight of their survival and the need for a solid plan for enforcement that we don't have in place I'd also like to make one other change um when there was a discussion between the mayor and councilman Cole um there was a mention of which uh process there was this line that said one process is more inclusive than the other um it's listed as a statement and I'd like it to be listed as the opinion coming from the mayor and not a statement of fact did someone second I did uh we need do we need all in favor or we need an actual roll call actual uh Christie may I please have a roll call council members Cole yes cotch yes Elli yes Hoy no La Barbara I wasn't here Al I wasn't here okay what's the am I allow to ask what's the no she does have um okay uh do I have a motion to approve the minutes now as amended so move second uh Christine may I please have a roll call Council memb Cole yes steell yes well hold on Cole you can't approve special meeting right because you weren't here it says in the minutes that you wer here for the special meeting oh excuse me you're this is all three yeah I can't just can we separate them then cuz otherwise I wasn't here for all three but I just read through them sear so let's start with the 20 the October 20th special meeting list is the October 20th special meeting the interview were you late yeah so was late was about Council Miss first question the first so so she could still approve is that Andrew someone comes late approve all right so let's just go back right into the but it says absent on the like it's that would need to be amended it says she's absent for that meeting can someone make a motion to uh I'll make a motion second uh christe man please have a roll call that's to change um councilman Cole from absent to present at the October 28th 20 24 special meeting okay uh council members poll yes Delly yes H yes P yes La Bara stain was not here olain okay uh now uh going back to the approval on the October 28th special meeting regular meeting and executive session um do I have a motion to approve as amended motion second uh Christine M please have a roll call Co yes deell yes yes yes Bara stain was not here thank you um moving along to hearing and Adoption of ordinances 2024 d17 amend B code 14-8 tree preservation Ordinance do I have a motion to open motion to open second uh all in favor I anyone opposed um for the executive session minutes as well yes that was all three all three yep um yeah sure I'll start us off um I have a couple things I would like few items just to aist really to kind of check off I think there's been some really good work on the part of the staff to probe and Tack down some open questions that have really come from the council and public so um I'll just take through them and see how we do um can you please confirm that street trees are in fact protected that the bur is the only entity that can removed for or other uh yes after um after legal review yes the bur is the only applicant that can apply for remov of Street trees Street trees are pro problemer thank you can you confirm the taxpayers are not in any way funding the process except for what is normally considered part of an administrative function but no reports will be paid for by taxpayers as we have had in the past so the um the ordinance does say for Large Scale tree removal um that the lte's report will be paid for by the applicant and for other instances you have a $50 fee and then a $25 fee for the um expert um and her the the 20 the those fees won't cover her hourly rate but her in that case the applicant pays it wherever the LTE is required her her report correct they have to pay the um a denial of an application can in fact occur and can you give us an example of how how that might play out although the language is not clear not respect where do you see that you can you show me where you see that in ordinance what section is that a denial can occur yeah which section do you see it's not in writing but in some of the discussions and the homework that's been done so what can happen is for the hazard tree so if an applicant puts in for a hazard tree removal um the applicant can't determine whether or not the tree is hazardous that's why the licensed tree expert has to come out and inspect the tree and do a report the licensed tree expert May deem that that tree is not a and therefore can deny it as a hazard tree remove so can the applicate applicant can be denied and for a hazardous Tree in which case it's a healthy tree correct and they would have to go through the process for and then that process kicks in with well you can plant trees or you can pay correct to not have to plant correct so a technical denial but not a okay a denial under the hazard tree again if it was if the license tree expert determined that it was indeed healthy tree then it wouldn't be deemed the hazard tree so they would not be able to have the removal under the hazard tree provision of the ORD so well they could plant yeah or pay correct right so it gets there in the affirmative rather than a a denial it says under 14- 8.4 the last sentence no tree shall be removed until until Municipal officials have reviewed and approved the tree removal application and issued and approved tree removal permit so the person doesn't not have that um then they're in the penalty schedule you know or they they're they they violated the rule violated the law mean they do it without it could be like like yeah doing a project without permit IL okay that's a different scenario than what I was asking about I wanted to know if the uh but but I think I got my answer um could you please identify for us who would administer the shave tree res fund this is being this is separate from the financial aspect yes that's administered by our CFO and then staff in terms of budgeting and use of those funds who would actually budget against that well that's hand all finances are handled through our CF okay do you want to speak on that if you want to expand on it a little bit not a budget so would not be part of budget PS that's important to know would not be handled as a budget that those fund would be separate and could only be spent for the reasons listed in so maintenance and planting I can't answer that specifically yeah that's so I can't yeahif whatever is listed in the ordinance is what those funds can at the direction of our administrative team with the council Direction at the direction of the same way that any appropriate would be handled it would come to me does it fit the ordinance yes it would come before the council as in the form of the bill okay okay thank you you're welcome um well the definition of trees this this goes back to some of the discussion earlier and so this is a when I was reading through it a question perhaps this is a solution but will the definition of trees as it's written in this draft serve as adequate clarification to avoid anyone from thinking they can substitute a sh for a tree and the definition of trees in in the draft is it is f but is it adequate and that's really a question I think where who would be administering this probably in our attorney well just for the record I'll read the def of tree just the ordinance to president the proposed word is presently stated tree shall mean a woody perennial plant typically of having a single stem or trunk growing through a considerable height in bearing lateral branches at some distance from the ground very broad because there's a lot of different trees well I think that's where the road of dentron Falls in because that could be counted as a tree in that definition I think that's where we go back to the shrubs so I'm just going to flag that to say there it's in need of further clarification excuse me you guys I have frog in my throat um I know we um the definition of clear cutting which in the current ordinance reads as uh anything about 20% of the free on the prop way was defined as clear cutting and in this draft kind of only just do a treat account and call it large degree renewal um and it seemed to permit what we would all kind of commonly known as clear cutting provided that there's a replanting schedule or a check paid to the burrow so just for the record just so to clarify it Large Scale tree removal in the proposed ordinance States shall mean removal of greater than five trees per lot or a reduction of canopy greater than 20% okay so we have both qualifiers what's that you helped me understand we have both qualifiers percentage as well as the number correct yes so correct me if I'm wrong would have to be a pretty sizable property for five trees to be less than to be correct yeah so perhaps a rare instance maybe in Fair Heen yes but but I know not speaking for everyone I know a smaller number would be more comfortable than five trees there was considerable discussion around that so I have identified that um can we this is props for down the road but can we find a tree removal business that does work in Fair Haven without ER registration with the bur as we know all the vendors have to register and bettyanne does a really good job every year she calls them and reminds them to send in their $25 uh and they have to register and provide certain certifications for the record for her files but if we have a vendor that's conducting business in very than doing free mov work or any work on trees that isn't registered can we find them so there's a whole section for registering uh the business for tree work and there's keny provision for noncompliance can you read that for us to utilize a registered tree care business and goods to [Music] register uh failure to utilize a registered tree care business in good standing or to provide their required documentation will result in penalties including fines and potential prohibition from performing tree work within the burrow area and what are those finds section 14-8 through2 there's violations and penalties any person who violates any provision of the SE will be subject to mandatory court appearance and upon conviction for the Municipal Court be sent it's in accordance with schedule be here and Below but the vi violator having the option to pay a monetary fine and provide placement trees under schedule B1 or in the alternative pay a double monetary fund under schedule B2 that sounds like the applicant that doesn't sound like the vendor any person defined and person defined in this ordinance is also including businesses as well as the burrow as well as well the business isn't going to plant a tree they they're here to work on Tre no any violation of this section of ordinance you violate any any provision of the ordinance You' be subject to 14-8 by2 you mean the tree vendor who's here to work on someone's property without proper registration is going to be fine to plant some trees well there's also a penalty schedule that doesn't require tree replacement and what is that penalty there's the schedule sched be I guess you read it to me because I'm tracking number of things simultaneously it's easier I mean it's a whole chart so it depends on the size of the tree it depends on what the circumstances are well as frustrating as it is this is important I understand but we've had the same ordinance what you have you have it right here you have it right here would you mind reading the fine for the people who are in the room it's a schedule it's not just the first one I I don't know how you want me to read it it's a chart it ranges from $1,000 to $4,000 so if he doesn't the vendor doesn't pay $25 get prop register does tree worker they could be f for $1,000 am I interpreting I hearing correctly actually no um because under 14 8.10 um it says register uh registered tree care business requirement say requirement for tree work all tree work conducted within the burough Fair Haven must be performed by Tree Care businesses that are registered and in good standing with the state so in accordance with the Tree Experts and Tree Care operating licensing act which is njsa 455c 11 ET so they have to be in registered in accordance with the state yes so if they're not so if it's a business that is not again in good in good standing and register of the state then they're in violation of a provision of this ordinance and then can be fined for scheduled B and I there's another part of the code that requires businesses such as this to register yes that's true so the the different section of the code working conjunction okay so then are we clear about what the fine would be what the penalty would be for a vendor who performs every so every fine is clearly defined out in schedule B so I mean we'll just do Cate you know category one um the find either be one replacement tree and a $500 fine or penalty or ,000 fine okay so again that sounds like that's for an applicant not necessary but the thing is with violation of penalties it says any provision of the ordinance so it doesn't say specific provisions of the ordinance it actually says any provision of the ordinance and section 14- 8.10 is a provision of the ordinance so even a violation even though maybe it might not seem like a fair f fine however it's still a violation of the ordinance 814 8.10 that's what they're required to do okay so that's that's what I heard you both say that if a vendor is performing work in this town without proper registration with the central office subject to a penalty of being sched again it says any provision of the section okay uh and similar question sorry this might be annoying but um if Council H I did not say annoying I didn't that word I don't think anyone said Annoying I just question these questions could have been answered before the meeting a lot of them were a lot of them were you just want on the record no well the first three were was some things that the public he about too and those were how that got developed behind the scenes but that doesn't really help the community understand so this is in part also to get the record clear um so if a tree company performs work without on a property or a tree rather without the proper approved permit the same penalty would apply is that correct okay thank you are you done POS almost sorry um the last thing it came up today actually and I didn't get to do any homework on this but I but I know that we've this government in particular gone to likes to prohibit some invasives bamboo um I think Japanese not we I think we should make sure that invasives that can propagate quickly and ATT trct Lantern fly and things like that do get added as a I prohibit rather than are not recommended but um real quick I just want to make one clarification I'm sure legal would agree me on that that penalty schedule is obviously you know pending adjudication okay so that would not be it's not an automatic penalty schedule the would be issued and be pending adjudication in cour just make that clear for the record that we're not just arbitrarily handing out fines with any don't want any case so that's a good clarification and any person in violation is is afforded due process and Accord thank you um that's those are my notes on this for now I just have one point um it seems that everyone keeps agreeing on the fact that shrub shouldn't be in here and at the shade Tre commission meeting I believe Mr uh councilman Olsen said that that's an easy change that could be done right now so I'm not sure why we aren't taking that out if that's a dimin this change I'm not sure why we're still my reference is that the shap Tre commission owns that document and if they want to change on the website there's a website in the we said they don't own the doc that's we just figured out it was not own she Chris the lawyer wrote the doc wrote the they don't own it that's what Bonnie was just saying so it's on us to change it because that's not what's linked to the website the link to the website is different than this right now so we're going to put forward this with an un incomplete link I thought the link doesn't go to that document though no so the the link that the shade tree commission the one that's in appendix a that's reference that has a list of all of these tree species right that was regurgitated into appendix Ed the additional requirements that are required by the mjdp are the the the two remaining homes the planting season and the planting procedures so those were added but the trees are the exact same as the Str Tre commission's website so I guess the point is though if you're saying that you provided the B and C or be whatever the second two columns are they required to recreate this on the website if we're saying this list is going to be updated on the website shouldn't this list be exactly the same thing as the website my recommendation is that once those two columns are Incorporated in the website then we can only reference the website and depend but we are referencing this website and if this goes through today this is not accurate the website is not accurate and we're telling them according to this document that they have to refer to this website for the most up to date and list of trees which is what the website is it's just a list of truths recommended Okay so recommended tree but it PL I still have an issue with the fact that say approved list and then recommended trees but it seems like they're conflicting but I I still don't know why we don't take the shrubs off take them off this list and they'll take them off that and then let's just go with it oh you don't have the list I'm so I'm just to clarify what do you mean you don't have the list so what's on the website right now the list of these trees these trees right she copied apparently the list from there that was never there was never understanding that that was going that you were going to take all his trees and put them on this list I mean you did you did that I we never I mean I did thank you I mean you did it but um the document that you have that's on here can you send that back to the sh commission and put that on the website be I mean it's just not on the website so yeah it's adopted we'll send it to you but in the adoption can we take out shrubs that's not our that's not our decision so we have to make a motion can we make I'd like to make a motion to take out yes I would second it if it clarifies the trees L TR which because the definition of tree seems a little bit vague um of striking this can can you be specific on exactly what what motion you're making it so know okay so I'm making a motion to take out some of the small ornamental under story trees like the rendum hold on one sec I I defer to the Tree Experts a little bit more because I don't know which ones are thubs which one did you r I the top four considered sh okay so take out everything below my motion is to take out everything below Fringe tray geonis Fring tree just keep first FL no first Flor She Said So yeah so from so from high b p through oh I see one two three okay we 100% sure that those are all considered shrubs and we're 100% sure that there's no hang if I may finish please and we're 100% sure so when I work walk through the Third Street Trail and I see some of the shrubs that had been left there for 50 years untouch they're just as big as trees and we're unsure that we don't want to treat them the same bill I'm looking at you man I'm I'm not trying to be funny I'm just trying to ask the question like Phil um Mark olon showed me I'm not saying poison ivy is is a is a tree right but showed me a 25-year-old Poison Ivy and the diameter of this thing had to be 13 inches it was insane so we we're 100% sure that they don't have any environmental benefit photosynthesis yeah I'm posing my question on second and if if you're going to speak from the audience please come to the table Bill Perkins to come on up as a licensed landscape architect I'm just trying to be educated magnolio looks like a tree to me I'm not trying to be funny but I'm just like just introduce yourself record bill so yes they do have environmental benefits so yes but aod gendrin in in the Horticultural classification would not be considered a Tre I mean I have used taxes in my yard that are 25t tall and 30t in diameter according to this they would be considered Tre the big node any shrub if left to its own the nature will grow to the thing is you usually sheer them because they're foundation planting or whatever but does but but is there a point and again I'm not trying I'm trying to educate myself is there a point though as in which a shrub achieves a certain size where it has the benefits of a tree you follow what I'm saying like I'm make the argument is that what you want I'm not asking what I want I'm asking what the data says about what what like is there can can I give him an actual instance a Virginia Magnolia virginiana I go sorry um says it says that it's native to New Jersey and it looks like a tree to me so it is a small tree yes but it's considered a shub but it isn't upright with lateral branching nor does that really provide the shade and and just for common can be considered a small to rarely large tree so a so a shade tree is kind of something very clear in our minds and I'll leave it to you so getting back to the point this is what I had mentioned at the shade tree commission so on a broader note then do you really want a a dogwood to replace 100e four dogwoods to replace 150y old oak tree is that what we want because the life expectancy of a dog is not going to be so it's not it's not necessarily shrub to tree it's necessarily tree to Shrub I okay I'm good thank you I'm I'm good that's what I mean just to clarify Bill though you would say all the ones below is that accurate and that's what we're looking to do we're looking to replace shade trees I thought the intent was to replace shade trees 30 we got to be it's the menus great and Bill Bill one other note just remember for the for the fund that we get we get to choose what trees we put in the room so if the appin doesn't choose to put trees in the ground themselves and we take the funds in yes the burrow the shade with I'm assuming with the help of the shade tree commission gets to choose what types of trees we're planting around the bur which is a good thing so make the motion again yeah to take out in the appendix in the appendix the small ornamental under story take out anything starting from vinius for bosam down to I'm say for I'll second just before roll this is what was presented is the Minimus yes I'll second you uh Alison please have a roll call M Cole yes delli yes Hy yes Co yes La Bara yes o yes thanks does anyone else have anything oh sorry did you have I have a motion to um table this and so that those who members of the council be voting on this have a chance to get the commission meeting prior to adoption um that would obviously some people got to go and some people didn't um I think the next sh Tre commission meeting is first Wednesday December 4th which still leaves us time to um uh on the schedule to adopt this before the end of the year so I'd like to make a motion to there second motion I'm sorry a motion to carry this until what date until the meeting in December after the sh unless the shap Tre commission has a special meeting or but no I haven't asked them about so I would second that as long with the what is it the word caveat the caveat that we can actually have a discussion though so so there would be no changes that are any sort of substantial value that would be able to be made because then that would just make it that we have to reintroduce the ordin with these substantial changes and then go to the public hearing like we're at now so keep going way have to go back to the first reading do we have a second I mean obviously I'd love to redo it but I don't think there's a does anyone else have anything up here because I just uh anyone the public again because we are still uh within the um hear hearing and adoption yes hearing part yes no so I just once again wanted to State my concern that we are creating this document that's a new ordinance we've been made aware that there are some conflicts contradictions lack of clarity or confusion and I'm not sure why we would correct these issues being in favor or against the ordinance is really relevant my issue is that the conflicts Corrections should be made the belief that because ordinances being has been discussed and contemplated for years that a flaw or incorrect document should be put forward and passed into law is actually quite FL in know itself as I said before time does not equate the good work product ignoring mistakes doesn't negate their existence and just reflects poorly on those who choose to them so I am just asking that everyone does the right thing and makes the corrections and yes this may add weeks to the process but it's the right and rational thing to do thank you is there anyone else yeah minut all right uh Ruth Blazer hi Ruth hello I just want to mention a few things in front in front of the burrow Hall there are two lovely lovely crep burtle trees and the only reason they're trees is because without being pruned they would be shrubs so you've got an example there similar to the rododendron in fact I I think I know of a rododendron that I could put in as an example however that being said it simply depends on the pruning whether something is a shrub or a free and whether it's allowed to grow my other objection in my opinion is that the burrow is overreaching into people's private property rights and I just think the whole tree ordinance should be erased people pay their taxes they own their property they should be able to do what they want with it if I want to take a tree down and I can get a couple brother-in-laws and Sons to come over and cut that tree down none of them are licensed and they should be able to do it my third objection is the word aesthetic aesthetic in any ordinance should be stricken because aesthetic means somebody else is making a judgment the only aesthetic that has to do with my property is my Aesthetics I want it to look the way I want it to look if it is detrimental when it comes time to sell the property I'll probably take a loss on it but the people who move in will also have the right to put in whatever they want and the burrow should just stay the heck out of it you've got enough to do you've got infrastructure problems that you're not dealing with and just stay out of it you're you're ordinances us up to the kazoo and I'm sure there are other people in town that agree with me so back off and just back off thank you Ruth chrisy is there anyone else yes there is Chris hon hey Chris hey I just want to you know again thank the council and everyone involved for the hard work you're doing on the ordinance it's it's a tremendous effort and and listening through it you how hard it is to get it right but I just want to you know from the outside looking in you're so close you've got you've got great effort and you've got great input from experts from the public uh and from the I I I think you've got plenty of time to just get it right so you know tabling it and just trying to get it a little bit more perfect or a little bit more you know adaptable to what we're looking for I I think it's it's worthy and complement all the efforts you've already made you know you're so close it'd be a shame to to push it through with with some small imperfections that that clearly you know can be discussed and and fixed even if it has to be reintroduced it's not the end of the world I think it's going to be introduced as a better ordinance and uh and for the record I don't necessarily disagree with Ruth I think you know people own the prop proper should do what they want but they also yield to the fact that you know we live in a beautiful community and you know people do like trees and you know I'll leave it at that but again I would I would ask the the council to just take the input from the experts and from the public and and you know get back to work on it you're so close you've done a lot of work don't push it through if it's not right get it right you're you're at the goal line thank you thank you Chris Christie is there anyone else no I have um one item mayor if I may sure the um I just have to offer a little bit of background I I happen to think we can Dr Nord so lets people do do what they want to do on the property for their own reasons and still obviously maintaining can community's rights and property rights can coexist um I had great concerns about the business district which is really looked at the heat map you know it's kind of like the tree desert once trees are gone from there it's very hard to get them back in um I I know that our land use boards are planning and our zoning board and a b engineer and other professionals work to make sure that those privacy borders are put in that street trees go in every time there's snation that's that's a thoughtful part of what goes in to making sure those components are part of um a site plan approval or um various applications So to that end and I'm hoping this might be considered something to Minimus attorneys um I'd like to recommend or make an amendment propose an amendment I'm making motion to amend the ordinance to include language that would um essentially protect those decisions made by our board so consider this quote unquote Landscaping including entries required by the burough planning board zoning board burough counsel bur officials or required by other provisions of our code or Municipal and state regulations um shall not be something I leave that to the attorneys whether this is a coition or a protection or an exemption but if we had that language in there it would be clear that say a privacy buffer that's required by a planning board does not cannot be paid for to not exist in other words the applicant can't just file an obligation and write a check and have it removed so that's Subs it's substantive yeah and I never use the word shall uhuh it's G to be subst maange okay so then I would just you know for those of us who are in the room or participating bya zoom and to my fellow Council people who I respect imentally and the shade tree commission who I met I mean Ryan you've been in this seat for seven months I did it for 18 and I know it's hard um but there's too much yet to be done it remains incomplete and uh like a marathon I know we're all exhausted but if we in mile 25 that's not when you sit down and take your sneakers off and say I just call the day you you we we finish it we follow through we do it the right way so that's my position um I'm just gonna say one last thing are you sorry yeah I'm so I agree and I appreciate all the work that went in I know it was seven years but I'm not sure that seven years of work and then a couple months like seems like it's a little quick turnaround for an ordinance that did take people seven years to go through so um what I do want to understand and I'm not sure if this is the right Forum but is it a priority of ours moving forward to look at other ordinances to make changes to fit in with this idea of property rights is that the intention of this governing body I don't know that that's specific to the discussion that we're having right now on the tree ordinance if you want to have that discussion but if that's what but just to frame I think good of the burrow conversation you want to bring that up then any here on the tree ordinance is there anyone in the public chrisy still no hands no all right do I have a motion to close um the hearing second all in favor I anyone oppos I have a motion to approve uh the tree ordinance 20247 with the one the Minimus change that was made um earlier uh chrisy M please have a roll call council members Cole noelly no Hoy yes cot yes La barara yes Olen yes thank you moving along 2024-25 open motion all in favor anyone oppose does anyone up here have anything on this who was the the young person again that briard so that was two meetings ago and we're already this is phenomenal I just want again hats off to that presentation well I think there was just one change last time oh was it okay but this all stem from her presentation right and everything she wants to do awwesome kud knows again I love it uh anyone in the public with anything on this no chrisy anyone on lawn no okay do I have a motion to close motion to close second all in favor anyone oppose do I have a motion to approve as presented move second uh Christie may I please have a roll call council members Cole yes deell yes Hoy yes CCH yes La barara yes olon yes thank you uh new business s agenda resolutions 2024-25 through 258 uh before I ask for a motion does anyone want anything separated on here may I ask a question absolutely and I I should have clarified with prior to the meeting um but the uh police department radio system and radios um did we receive radios from the county is there that was fire department yeah the fire fire department um the County Fire Department 15 radios um the police department did inquire if there were radios available for the police department um and under Sheriff Bob Dawson from M Sheriff's Office that there were no radios available and uh we did have that on the record but the fire radio fire department radios are um yes they're part of the new part of the new system County truck system and that was the system that uh chief of govern present it to us correct yes correct okay thank you anything else on this um do I have a motion to approve motion to approve second uh Christie may please have a roll call council member Cole yes ell yes po yes Co yes La Bara yes yes thank you uh Department reports October 2024 municipal clerk dog license budget status do I have a motion to accept the report to subed possibly with a thank you motion with a thank you second all in favor anyone opposed thank you we are now at the good of the burrow portion of the meeting please stand and identify Yourself by clearly stating your name and address for the record please observe a time limit of three minutes sure I mean I'm gonna ask my question again is that a priority of ours to is that kind of a framework we're looking at as we look at our decisions moving forward and are we going back to reexamine so answer from my perspective the mayor asked us for our priorities is not something I put on the list and I didn't see on the list it wouldn't be myi I would agree with just want to make sure anyone else go to the burrow sure col Court I am the chair of the fa Fields actal area advisory committee r volunteer weekend this weekend Saturday and Sunday from 10 to 1 the DPW will be out there working with us uh and we encourage as many people as could come come and help us and work to help keep the Natural Area beautiful is that that's rain or shine it is can I make a recommendation that if everyone's all right with it that maybe we try something new you said Saturday is the maybe at like 8:00 a.m. on Saturday can we blast something out maybe there's people sitting around looking for something is that is that all right with you everyone's good with that Emil me all that information so I can have 10 to one saturday8 Saturday that's great thank you you got it anyone else um so we had a nice meeting with the business district uh last week is it last week this week last week last week and and um I just I'm excited to really make a priority of the business district and to help them grow and to bring in new business but one note is that they we did just put their logo and information right on the front page so if anyone's looking for business information that's one good step and we continue to we'll make some more so uh good to the burrow anyone else I just wanted to forth cast something for the next meeting we'll be talking about um Jake's law um inclusive playground grant that the rep committee would like to forward so we're going to go through the details rich is working on a site plan right now as we speak and there's a couple of things that we just want to walk through and but not everyone's radar but some more to come just forecasting that fin next meeting um and then followup to the project that we talked about with nolwood um bety and I had a great conversation again with Pam Green Hall we're actually going to involve the entire eighth grade now not just the student council um and they since they have six section six sections in the eth grade um each council person will be assigned to a section and you'll have that section to kind of work on the situation or the problem with so more to come great anyone to the public yes Marty Marty just a thank you to everybody for the wonderful uh Veterans Memorial ceremony yesterday in the park I thought it was really well in the head and it was a beautiful ceremony and I thank the council and everybody involved for doing that I I bet you're thankful that they true CN to sing the national anthem and not the mayor that was some unbelievable rendition right uh anyone else no Christy anyone online uh y uh Ruth Blazer hi Ruth can I have an update on the gray boxes street light oh you have an update yes so uh we talked engineering um last week Rich probably in fil little it on there um they are on their way we're just dealing with supply chain props but as soon as they're uh they arrive I would assume at this point they should be about four weeks out um unfortunately we can't control but the orderers all in place we're just deal with supply chain and the vendor and soon as we have them will be installed which you have additional ad or that basis contractors ready as soon as they come in them delivered that's the last piece correct of the whole project Ruth Ruth so yeah I've been keeping track of the one across the street from me and they are on some kind of a schedule because they work during the week and on Saturdays and Sundays they don't work at night so they're on some kind of a system question you ask question which well I think maybe just look at there is a schedule because it might be like a weekday weekend thing I did notice the AC parking lot wasn't on over the weekend too oh we yeah it was dark when I went there Ruth we're going to look into yeah in a way no Chris H yeah hey Chris hey guys hey everyone uh again I just want to say thank you to the council for your hard work and just you know and consideration that you put into things look I mean I I I try to come out as much as I can and you know lend a comment here or there or an opinion um I'll meet in the middle most of the times you know even if it doesn't go my way but uh I just wanted to say thank you and uh you know keep at it keep up the good work um I did want to ask a question about um Recycling and garbage pickup I just and I may have missed a meeting on this but has there been any public feedback on potentially increasing the number of uh either recycling and/or garbage pickup in the in the new regime that we have uh or schedule I shouldn't call it a regime but I know we've we've we've reduced it a little bit um and I've heard some people maybe make comments or complaints that you know they just can't keep up um has there been any thoughts or comments amongst the council about potentially going back to a a schedule that is a little bit more or somewhere in between where we are and where we were well there's the trash schedule hasn't changed at all there's no difference whatsoever in the trash schedule that's identical to what it was before I don't know what different day there it's all in one day it's all in one day but the amount of pickup is exactly the same um so it's just recycling yeah just recycling so recycling went from weekly to bi-weekly um our recycling center do we have an update on when that's going to be open temporarily open but the permanent wand card s yeah isn't that going to be more than cardboard or no yeah yeah cardboard right now it's just carard right now it's just carard so when when is the full February March yeah as soon as the uh DBW site work is done uh we're looking probably by the latest March we'll have the entire um you know recycling center to complete yeah that's bottles cans the whole night yeah so so maybe that's helpful you know right now um you know you can really only drop off your at the BPW uh once we Rec recycl cardboard yeah what did I say garbage don't not uh in in a few months you're going to be able to um dump the rest of the recycling materials there which should help alleviate some of the issues that people may be having as as far as um making a change I mean we are in a contract for three years um we're we're hopeful that we get some State cap appropriation relief um you know through through uh through through some of the uh State politicians we we hope that they're helpful in that and if they are certainly I think at that point we would probably explore um what what positive impacts we can make in in services for our resides can I add a couple just more data points just just Chris just a couple more data points right um went to Tuesday to streamline how many times cans are on the street right from a safety perspective and alignment with uh other pickups um and then just to give the numbers right um the recycling the overall Garbage Contract went up 50% even with reducing recycling to bi-weekly and we have that 3 and a half% cap right so we're limited to increase our budget 3 and a half% it went up 50% so that was one of the reasons why um and then at the DPW site we actually increased the site of the recycling center there so in all of the open houses that we had um residents gave us a tremendous amount of feedback on the number of boxes now that are delivered right especially in a postco era so I forget the size of the pad but we've increased significantly the size of the recycling center as well as added inforcement cameras so that people aren't doing night dumps um but nonetheless those are just a few more data points if you have any other questions feel free reach out no that's great no I was I wasn't aware how close that was so that's that's great to hear because look I mean I mean granted uh we're a little more capable I mean going to the recycling center to if if we do have access is is easy enough to do we we're used to doing it been in town 25 years so uh having that reopened is uh yeah that's that's for me more than adequate I know some people want to picked up but uh I'm yeah I mean at least I could speak for my household we'll be fine if we have access you know sending the the driveable kids over to the recycling center to do their their chores so so thank you um thank you great great to thank you CHR is anyone else no all right uh that being said we're going to move towards adjournment at 8:34 p.m do I have a motion motion all in favor anyone opposed good night Fair what what day is it the student council March it's the March meeting oh so we're gonna in yeah so instead they're gonna work on projects so no one is g to be sitting with us separately