all right let's get to mood uh everybody ready yep good evening everybody Welcome to the March 13th meeting for the Fair Haven environmental commission please call the meeting to order you want to um take roll call or no we'll do uh Sunshine Law first right this is a regular meeting of the environmental Commission of the B of Fair Haven in accordance with the provisions of the open public meetings ACT public meetings may be held in person or by means of communication equipment to include streaming services and other online meeting platforms this meeting is being held in person and through the zoom meeting platform being broadcast bural Hall 748 River Road fa public participation for this meeting on March 13 2024 is available by calling phone number or members of the public will be on mute and time for questions comments which will be announced at that time the public has opportunity to question comment by phone or through Zoom by the raise hand button and will be called on at the appropriate time notice of this meeting was sent to the aord park press the two of times the Star Ledger on January 26 2024 posted on the burough website the Bolton board in the municipal building and had remained continuously posted as required under the statute with adequate notice having been given the environmental commission secretary is directed to include the statement from the minutes of the meeting thank you you all stand for the Pledge of Allegiance Al to the flag United States of America it stand One Nation God indivisible Li Justice all thank you roll call please Anna anonin here William D here ky Flanigan here Susan gloz here Jesse Murray absent Gary also said he would be absent John Peters here Brian Rice here Ralph windram here also present councilman olon and secretary Christy Larson you have a quorum thank you so approval of the January minutes January anybody have any questions additions second second thank you so uh current business there was an email that was sent around uh the New Jersey state statute EC's role powers and duties how many people have had a chance to look at that kind of it's pretty short I can read it yeah why don't you do that please you have yeah I didn't pratic copy thank you if you got it so um the Genesis of this was me trying to of continually been trying to figure out what is the EC what is the role of the EC um and so that me that you guys don't understand it it was me that was trying to trying to figure it out so this is the state statute it says uh establishing an environmental commission authorized to one advise and research local environmental issues to better inform governing decisions on proposed development to develop and maintain an inventory of environmental resources and environmentally sensitive Community assets and three educate and inform residents on environmental and public health issues and actions so that that is the statute you want me to keep going sort of with you it's yeah so um um I think that's a different understanding than what I thought the e was certainly at the beginning um when I read that and think about the interplay between the EC and the governing body um I think of the EC as an Advisory Board a place that can help the governing body um make environmental decisions I think the governing body has the bandwidth is really taxed so right now we're working on the budget h a CFO the burough administrator opening the police and DPW hiring DPW workers marter Pond the garbage contract is up and then several other things and it just feels like to me that the EC um the issues related to the environment are important but they're not as urgent as Garbage Contract we don't do the Garbage Contract garbage clows up in the streets can I just say I'm speaking just from being on Council for 15 years I mean that's one of the reasons why you're designated here and we have an extra body we had to try and handle zoning at the Town Council you know we just don't have you don't have the time to give each and everybody's uh situation a fair discussion because there's just too many other things going on we are the place where we can actually spend the time other than you being here it's freeing up all the other members of the council to do things that are useful to the town and this body can develop also take the time to develop the expertise to really provide Good Counsel yeah exactly you're on to the next thing you got 12 things this week you know and that's why we took a poll to see what issues were of utmost importance right so and it all came down to it looked like you know deer management deer mitigation which we'll talk about in a little bit and I understand you know everybody's bandwidth is being stretched my I finally learned how to say no and I get it um but you know as long as we have decent open communication and representation from you know you Brian to the to the council that's fine if we you know if there's ways to do things that you know as long as we get things done right and we're not it's usually not a big ass for instance and I can I brought the picture um mcarter Pond they just left the big mud pit there so finally the town went over there and did some you know spread some gravel and made it nice so there's little bits and pieces as long as we have that open communication we're fine right um well I think it's more than that um I agree with that I think it's more so when I when I put those two ideas together um for me the ER goes the number one of the list like that it's that kind of stuff that I think is best suited for the EC to do you have the time the expertise the passion the bandwidth um to to focus focus on that or get us to focus on it I know that's part of my role as well but I feel like e environmental stuff can get lost in the bigger ocean of emergency after emergency after emergency and this is a place that could slow down and think and do it do it right yeah and the other piece of it is the council has to again to some degree delegate and that's always a challenge because some sometimes is there's kind of a philosophy to jump into everything you know what I mean because I want to make sure the decision is done well the council has to step back and say okay I'm going to have to to some degree Trust trust and delegate responsibility to the team here and and we bring back reports to you and give you guidance that again we have it at school I'm a university professor and so we have committees that work on curriculum and then our governing committees don't listen to the Committees I'm like well why did I spend two hours talking about an item that might then is going to be rehashed by another committee you know it it it can be productive if we all agree that yeah we we're going to have to try and do things and then deliver to you a product that at least has been thought through yeah so then can maybe make some choices between obvious and my my point is is just even just to get we can sit there and come up with a plan and then try to get it to council right but it it doesn't always get on the agenda we had a big win last week where you know deer mitigation got onto the agenda finally you know and it'll be on to May 13 you know into May 13th meeting so you know it's these little steps but if we don't get you know to even the Council then kind of what's the point so that's all that I as and that's all that I asked the a is great but that's more of an administrative item that needs to be updated and Jesse's been working on a little bit and and we're you know we asked for comments from everybody to get it you know updated and I don't think we have to hire somebody to do it but we don't have the budget any so but you know we as long as we can work with Council and do these project you know and and do the planning but it has to be for some reason right we have to get on the agenda well a couple things um you I don't know that doing an ER has to be on the agenda I think it's fine if it is but I think I think this body could produce or or push for an ER whether it's on the council agenda or not if it's not on the agenda I'm going to give it to the council you know they're GNA they're all going to see it whether it's on the agenda or not no I wasn't talking about the ER on the agenda just a definitive project right whether it's your mitigation not the that's internally we will update it and then it goes to council from what I understand for their you know review and then it gets adopted and we and then it's an updated form from 20 yeah so my two priorities right now are the tree ordinance and the deer mitigation and those are well the deer mitigation is further along the tree ordinance but it's on its way um maybe this analogy will help I've talked to people that want to volunteer and I've said you know if you want to get your hands dirty and do things join the Green Team if you want to think and be deliberative and help with like a policy advisor that's the EC in my head I'd love to what you guys you think said much taking it in that's that's kind of the break and and again I think that um this is supposed to be the place where you can have these longer term discussions and again part of it is these bodies are meant to communicate to the council because the council is the rulemaker if you will or can change like again the planning board in his zon board really should be always trying to communicate back to the council what's next what should we be thinking about what's a problem you know what our current ordinances don't work or don't work and so again that's why I think the EC does the same thing we hopefully come to you and say okay we thought about it we hacked it around and what do we all think right yeah I'm happy to to bring things to the council obviously and get them on the agenda I think I've been able to do that um um but I like I've since I've read this and thought more about it and lived with all these other budget CFO and the bur administrator um it it just feels like um it just needs like maps and and and studies and papers are way more important in from my perspective now than than maybe what I understood before anybody else have any questions why do you say that well I think um to me it felt like um at times it was more of a get your hands do things um and I I think it's more um deliberative and like policy formation thank you so maps and studies and research is good to a point but if nobody outside this committee is going to read them or do them that's where the problem is we've had a Rucker study about storm water management since 2017 identifying the major areas bring Gardens in this town I don't think anybody on Council has read that apart from people uh who served on the environmental commission before I don't know it's that's not part of our major plan here and that has been incredible data study work from experts at records that we've had for eight years seven eight years it not we have not we've implemented one of those rain Gardens but even as we've gotten stricter storm water management issues you would think that in order to comply that would be a useful thing that we can present to council and say this is where we need to put our buies in right we have so there's I get it the ERI is a very important document but if nobody's going to read that if nobody is going to take that into consideration and in these other studies then you know what's the point well let me just say sorry right go Ahad no I I just want to say when I was on Council um I sat in Brian's chair and I kept saying to the EC what do you want to do and really what I would suggest we all do is you know every three months put down a list of what we think we should do next because there are plenty of organizations like the baseball and the soccer they're always saying what they want to do and so if the council's not doing something we should just say to them hey I think we'd like to talk about where the next rain Garden goes and our suggestion is it goes here yeah I I I have to piggy back on Kelly's point I mean where where will it live who where does the information get disseminated is it strictly for Council is it for our is it for our town like is it for the people in the town like I am happy to sit here and do a workshop where we finish the ERI I've read it I think it's great I think it's long I think it be shorter there are so many aspects to it that I think we can change but I think that it would be a useful document but then what I'm kind of scratching my head about like we can do the work and we can spin up the things but like I said last last whatever we met the last time the maintenance of it and the continuity of it is what's going to matter you know you can do these things you can have a deer mitigation plan but the deer will come back like the rain Gardens will they'll start to fall apart you have to we have to think long term about these things in conjunction with Council and the planning board and how we want to spend our money and I don't I personally don't think that we have enough budget to to do these things appropriately so that's a problem that I have but if we're going to do the work it can't be fruitless like we have to be able to it has to be executed I I can't tell you that everyone's going to read it I mean I would hope that they would um but I think we could present a condensed version to the council yeah long but I do think that it's important you know if we could maybe shorten it if we could Workshop it and make it so that it's digestible like revenue is key with these types of things that would be that I think would be useful yeah so I'm happy so our meetings are about four hours when we do executive session for another hour so um like making it short I think would be a big yeah a big thing I also we have a new bur administrator coming um so sharing these documents with the with whoever that person is would be great and I think for the town you know they can be on the website do we have a master plan they're on the website they're on the website now is it revised it's it's a bit old you know because I you think about these things right I mean since the ER has been updated these were my comments that I think I submitted a year ago maybe a year and a half ago chrisy right um that what's not included in the ER right is the development of these pocket parks and and what's happening to Grange and on the bottom of um nor you know and and uh all these different parks that we have and the living shorelines and the Third Street Trail and there's a whole bunch of other different you know micro projects or things of concern as well and we also had this amazing study and Engineering plan for the dormandy park that has been sitting there um for for five six years and we are ready to go there's money there and we have asked Council for it and again you know that's where that disconnected the frustration I guess you know is that we have people from the ALS ready to work ready to help us get grants we had engineering plans now they're outdated because there's been even further erosion happening on those banks that it's going to require a bigger job and a more environmentally based engineer to come in there and with a new storm water regulation so the longer you sit on this then you have to almost like go back to the drawing board again and it becomes a repeat and a more difficult project to to move through and to move forward with much bigger expense but so what I'm hearing is that the bandwidth is stretched so thin already at Council we'll be really lucky to get something on on the agenda is what I'm hearing and you know I'm I'm gonna take the deer mitigation and say that's a big win we finally got on the agenda but you know where it goes from there hopefully it keeps you know we keep pushing ahead and get it passed you know and get something on the books for September I think things I think a targeted thing especially um if it's coordinated with with like the shade tree commission or you know sort sort of other similar groups um that stuff gets people's attention um that it's sort of concentrated and persistent and coming from many directions um that can help and like I think deer mitigation is a great example of that that's what's happened but unless somebody this is a problem though right because we discussed this at the envir at the environmental Round Table not the environmental commission Roundtable the environmental round table which was bringing similar groups in town that all had similar we realize that we have a lot of overlap overlap and we're all trying to do the same agenda differently but let's all coordinate and collectively put our efforts in and see what are the main issues that are affecting all these groups shade Tre fairy of natural field planning zoning wreck um environmental commission and deer mitigation was number one and and storm water was it was a high up there too and yet we got reprimanded for for meeting um no we didn't get reprimanded they said quote unquote they didn't even know about this and how could we have set up this behind their backs kind of thing it was it was it was crazy and it's just trying to streamline right you don't hear this same item on the agenda from five read about it I mean I've been reading about the deer mitigation I've been doing the like past agendas and it's been on there for a very long time and we are we can be nimble I don't understand why we just can't execute on these things but when you have you know six different commissions coming in and say this is a priority then let's all work like this is a a priority of that represents a town right it's consensus want my quick answer or no yes the quick answer after 15 years is sometimes people jump the line you know we would have we would have an organization in a process and then somebody would come in with a pet project and I I'm not going to name any names right now but look around what's been done I shouldn't have to spend my day to be a lobbyist to get something done in T I didn't if I didn't keep pushing and pushing to get gravel or the pond you know all this stuff I shouldn't have to say here no no I I'm just indicating that there are things that get done in town there are I would suggest you look at what gets done and look at how it prioritizes into the game I have things again I don't do Ball Sports we've said this I've said this for 25 years okay I don't do Ball Sports so anything that BS a b I'm a fisherman I'm a fisherman I'm a boater I'm a sailor and our Waterfront stuff was in terrible now it's like the dock we buil the town dock that was a priority that was you know gone either way but we did rebuild it and now it's in good shape and now we're going to have other things but it's just you do have to make choices and they're hard choices and and again everything you add to the pool this is the challenge everything you add then you have to maintain so I would say not to think of it as a lobbyist an analogy that I've thought of in my head is not perfect but it's like the Senate Judiciary Committee so the Senate has to vote on judges right but and they the Senate's got all kinds of stuff they got to do and they have a DED dedicated committee that vets the candidates they they spend the time and the expertise and they sort of come with the finished product to the Senate right and say here this is what we think you should do um and I think that's a good model again it's not Perfect Analogy but it's close no I think the next is we should be always giving a prioritized list and making sure that we're all unified on that prioritize sure and and we were after the last environmental Round Table we all said this this is we're all going to be bring it back to our own committee and going to bring this and then we'll all present it as a unified this is from shade tree wreck environment commission fa natural Fields go down the line Garden Club Fair Haven Garden Club our major issues is the deer mitigation now it's on May 13th right but we got reprimanded so and misunderstood on our intentions of meeting accused of forming a another governing body that would compete with the one is here today and that is totally misjudging the our intent and what we've been doing for the past year and a half and that's frustrating yeah I think there was a gap between what people thought that on table was and how it came on during the meeting there was no Gap we told him there's no Gap it was my idea last year and we implemented it they knew and Tracy was I'm not talking about knowing I'm talking about the the sort of the nature of it I think that the thought the nature of it was you know it's a place for for likeminded coll all it is is a collaboration of all the Committees and and commiss do you mind if I finish my sentence no I I I'd like to move on well did did the middle of my SS interrupt the beginning of yours go ahead um it's it's it was thought of as a place at least in my mind mind of like-minded people that could go and compare notes sort of get organized send a consistent signal to the governing body it came off as um sort of now all the environmental groups are under the EC and the budgeting and all the sort of the the control is driven by the EC and that's very different than I think what people had in their head that's how it came up I'm not saying that anybody's right or wrong that's how it came off which is different than the perception that's why you had to friction just to clarify it well again you know it's not the environmental Commission Round Table it was the environmental you know round I think I said enir I said environmental I during budgeting like when the budget question was happening so I think that's where it was construed where it was like roached during the whole conversation surrounding the budget so I think that's where there may have been some confusion sure I mean I was there too and it did feel it felt very weird because it was like two different conversations we having a name but I think that the idea has purpose and it's a good idea and the fact that the collection of those people agreed on the same thing from every group is saying something as well that there's a problem they agreed and they prioritized it like that's that's a step I don't think anybody's a problem with any of that I think that's fine yeah it's a like I said a place to compare notes make sure people working together are shared interests that's great um but if it is sort of another layer of then I think people because there's enough layers like we spend a lot of time talking right just keep on but streamlining is good yeah and trying to look what happen it's on the agenda now it's on the agenda right the councils were we've been talking a lot about it I've been you know sharing all the feedback and I think we're going to get something done cool so can I ask another question too um because you asked what our our point you know with the EC's role powers and duties and you said the third thing was educate the public so I know the green team is under the office of the the environmental commission but I do think that the larger environmental commission can do a better or fill some of those gaps to because the green te I I'm one out of the entire team that works has you know on both sides here and there are times where it is hard to reach out to the general public it's hard to get volunteers it's hard to get the message out of what we are trying to promote and and so I do think that perhaps not just a policy advising hat to wear but we can also have like an education part to to do as well too and promoting some of these whether it's and we've talked about this before um updating our website and making things more accessible and you know collaborating on some workshops or talk or I don't know I just think that there it we could perhaps tackle that educative education piece as well I I I just did taught in class today Wastewater management I'm teaching business and the environment it's a new camp new course on campus and sustainability and um so I talked about waste water I'm having Mike Gene 40 in from the T Riv Water Reclamation Authority and again we're always look at like I always feel like somebody with negative you know and it's always getting worse and worse but the the river is actually a real success story and you know we should really be happy about that and we want to educate kids and everybody in the town about why we need to do certain things to help the river and we've made so much progress and I think Brian has been a leader on this he's been pushing really hard for years absolutely and we actually see things you know what I mean like we're actually seeing positive things so I think it's useful to to certainly go out and try and educate people why we have certain requests and you know work managing our Stow water and stuff but we've made a lot of progress compared to other places in the region right and I get it's some real problems the if combin sewers in a lot of areas but but I I still think that the general public might not understand right why and and what we need to do to maintain that right and improve it even further but you know what does it look like to you are the programs are they Standalone programs are they you know do you involve the schools like how does this play out I mean well what type of what type of curriculum do we set I think it's I think it's very important Beyond and not just water you know this is not just a water town it's we've saved acres and Acres of of walking paths and everything it's important to note that this is just a uniquely fortified place for those safe areas and green spaces and what can we do what kind of programs can we set up what kind of business can we support that would bring those things back into our town I mean what does it look like um I mean I you hit the nail on the head there's a lot that I would I would love to see happening with the schools too and it's like getting involved in in the schools and that's what Green Team and the Garden Club and everything else I think plays a role too in the e but I do think here's another way to like collaborate with The Fair Haven natural Fields they put on the walks I'm see the Fergusons right here like they put on guided walks educated walks about pointing out what invasives are how to manage it but imagine if you collaborate that with the shet Tre and the EC and you get a larger public to come out or some of these talks about storm water and why it's important what does the new new storm water regulations entail let's let's bring people in and and educate them on this and why that affects I mean look at all the the the places that use the river right and River rats and our kids are using that and the shb yacht club and just the Boating and I think it's important to um you know offer it offer it you know and make it more digestible for people and um synthesize it a little bit for the public so a couple things sorry go I just have a procedural question we started out on ER and um that's not an actionable document it's just a document for ref or for planning boards or zoning or whoever wants it and I think I hear that the document is unfinished so I just wanted to know if we're taking any action around that and then you've got a million great ideas on education we could have a subcommittee or something recommend I mean do we get to action here I'm just we're kind of all over the place and um it's my first meeting and I out time out I tried to reel it in we're getting way off into the woods so the ER to be clear is not unfinished we are updating it so it it's a document living document that we have to update periodically so um and Jesse's not even here she's the one that's that's heading up that um so can we go on the Green Team because this is the educational part and the boot say I want to say a couple things um so the AR is going to take money more than likely right or unless we so let's say various reports might take money there's three ways to spend money in the town you put it in the budget which is forming right now you do an emergency appropriation or you do a bond order and just coming to the council and saying we need money to do XYZ EC or anybody else is not going to work so I worked with Carolyn quite a bit in the Natural Area she laid out a specific thing and I worked to try to get into the budget and so that's something the EC can do so if if the EC says we need to dedicate a certain amount of money we have need a cost estimate and so on I'll advocate for that at the budget forming process which would be next I think that starts in the fall um so part of it is process the communication so the mayor is trying to shorten the meetings and I'm I'd love that and part of that is instead of giving individual updates he wants a written summary of the meetings and I don't know I don't know from the communication group yet how it's going to be disseminated but I've started doing that do that for this group so if there are messages or links or whatever I'll what the format I've been using is I WR and I give it to the chair for edits the chair can spread it around if they want or whatever the group wants and then I'll send it in um so that would be a time to do a communication or a one way to do communication I don't know if I answered your question good question the budget is pretty much done for 2024 yes it's basically Ming for 2025 in 2025 so if there's something that the EC is a priority for next year's budget let's talk about getting into it I just don't think that the ra needs money right no I know I'm just like as a that would be something if we all want to sit down three or four of us want to sit down just do bang away but it's not going to happen at this meeting just because course not but to do it and say hey let's read chapter one and let's see what we can and I would recommend whatever's produced ER or St water regulations that somebody we can get spot on the agenda somebody come and give a five minute reader digest version of whatever the topic is I think that'd be great and as long as it's not a 45 minute thing I think that um John just side note did you see the Rumson EC what is it um well they said we can take whatever images and Maps as well I could share it with you sure but they said we could and they did that inh housee by the way yeah I surprised to hear that yeah um but we also you John Scott that he's the gis Guru so um we canuse just around right now we're conducting and one thing we could think about as a longterm game uh we are conducting a tree survey my campus is the largest campus in New York City and we are now conducting a tree survey we probably have over 1500 trees on campus so it is not an easy thing but this these super GPS's they'll you can locate stuff very accurately so we're just starting that process but yeah sure yeah you have your hand raised yeah go ahead Ralph I have nothing to say oh okay your hand was raised sir no okay sorry all right so we'll go to Green Team can we before we get off that are we taking any action on on the yeah are we forming a committee are we just waiting for the person who what's the process I propos to form a subcommittee that would get gather once or twice in the next month and I mean Jesse's owned this item for Jess Jesse owns it she has she's worked a lot Incorporated whatever commentary there so can maybe we can follow up with Jesse to see if she has time to do that that would be great yeah I think the only way yeah thank you great Green Team Kelly um Green Team yes so the educ part of the EC we um what's coming up we are collaborating with the Rumson EC um the Norwood Green Team the Rumson Junior Green Team and the rfh environmental Club to host our spring Sports Swap on Saturday March 23rd at fa Haven fields from 10 to 1 um we thought it would be great since we share all the wreck teams with Rumson anyway to collaborate on this and make it a larger event um so you don't need to bring something in order to take something it everything's free there's no price taxs um but it's just a way to educate and inform and um give an opportunity for people to share um and recycle and Reen reuse um sporting equipment especially and which is great even as we know that bulk is probably going to be limited to four times a year this is a wonderful way to just kind of um increase encourage people to not just discard but to um find new purpose St in the buzz so it is coming in the buzz I sent it out to bettyanne she's gonna be putting it in the buzz DJ is going to be sending it blast through the wreck um Facebook page it is on the Facebook page it's on Fair Fair Haven moms and dads it's on the buy nothing Fair Haven website um I'm waiting to hear back with the schools I've had some um they just haven't gotten back but uh Mr MC said he'll blast it out again as well and um we'll have the ice cream truck there we reached out to the booster clubs to see if they wanted to um have a presence there um but it should be a great event at Fair Haven fields and then anything that is left over and not use um what happened at our December Sports Swap we debuted up to different uh local organizations and Charities like m f Care Center um the food pantry um Goodwill so um just great Community event we're trying to just promote this as a community event um before the spring season begins so that's coming up we also um are underway with our pollinator Garden on the Third Street Trail that is a grant funded from sustainable Jersey we just got and part of this pollinator Garden is to educate the public about what pollinator Gardens are why the use of native plants are important and so we have this really great education and um sign that just got approved or um is out for purchase order right um Christie right that's correct okay so hopefully that'll be great and that'll be installed by May when the grant is done so we'll be doing planting um and in and in um so we're also asking once we get closer to when we're ready to be shovel ready we'll ask for anybody that wants to come and and help assist with that which be great Ma planting it will be end of April perhaps May we're thinking is maybe we align it with love wor you live day which is my next thing so love where you live day is scheduled for Sunday May 5th and this year we decided to change venues and hosted at the Third Street Trail um instead of historic F Chapel by Hall um the reasoning for this is byall has been getting a lot of love rightfully and deservedly so um um and they had that big art show the weekend before we thought to change things up and to bring attention and light to all the volunteers that have been working tirelessly at the Third Street Trail and transforming it into what it is now and removing invasives um why not celebrate that work and show what volunteers can do and reclaiming um some of our great what is say 8% of our fa Haven land that is Natural Area um furthermore it is also the 50th anniversary of Fair Haven fields and so we've been working and we we mentioned with um Fair Haven Natural Area advisory committee if we would want to celebrate that as well and celebrate that success story when multiple different organizations from town came together to to save that it was a true Community effort um and so we were thinking highlighting that highlighting what that was all love it Nursery um Hands-On show of what invasives are how to remove it um how you can plant a pollinator Garden at your own home so kind of changing not changing but just modifying a little bit a scope of what level we live day and just bringing people into the woods which I have a write up from Jimmy Engle I don't know if you have that about the original acquisition oh okay might take that to yeah Whoever has it be great because it's a great thing to read all these I haven't yeah you copy oh look we do have a we keep it Google dog Google yeah no Jim sent it to me a bunch of years ago because he read it the counsel I said Jim can you send it to me I'll I have it but you really just talked about the fact that at the time was $800,000 decision which in 1970 sure seem was outrageous you know everybody got they were outraged when we bought to Normy by the way they were outraged when we bought to nor people are outraged when they bought the fields out but a lot of outrage well the point is at the at the time it always with a park especially it always looks expensive and it's like why do it now and the answer is because you're not talking to today you're talking to and could you imagine Fair what if we had what if they walked in was 74 it was 74 what if they had walked in 74 and that was all housing apartments and no it be a totally different VI right we are Fair Haven Fields last night we decided that we're going to try to write up a declaration to have the mayor read at Fair Haven day taking in this history and so please share that yeah I'll get that let me let take a look see if I have it um me John I'll get it up and um you know so just a great thing to highlight and and to show and I think frankly I think a lot of people haven't even been to the Third Street trip or seen the before and after of what's been going on and um why not encourage more people to go take a walk in the woods right and I think that's what we're trying to celebrate to and bring people out and showing some handson and we can do some educative stuff with the kids and having them create art and you know just play around I just think that there's a lot that that can be done in that area um so it it lends itself to that and so that's what we're trying to do so obviously we' love some um presence from the environmental commission some input some guidance um what you think would be you know appealing or if you'd want to volunteer um we would love that so I will we could tell you're not looking for the traditional table like we are we are going to have tables and I and I did mention to DJ he will like we will be having like tables there and so for instance we'll ask a sha tree if they want to get there and maybe educate about you know the tree planting program or um the tree ordinance the Garden Club for sure because um The Garden Club who are the stewards of the bird sanctuary um we're hoping that what has happened and the cleanup that has happened at thir through Trail can move on over to the bird sanctuary which has been neglected for years as well too um and so yes we would love to um and we have some on the Green Team who are in part of the Garden Club and have been mapping out the pollinator garden and trying to put together a step so that any Resident that wants you can kind of bring that information back and that's what I was thinking yeah yeah there's probably expertise there on sure yeah for sure and so the Garden Club that um we've also you know we'll bring in clean ocean action and they do the part where um the storm flow right comparing lawn to soil replicating what will take in more storm water and things like that that will lead to just kind of play that theme um you know as well of storm water you know retention and the importance of forest areas um and Gardens and stuff um and we we'll reach it out to any Community you know the same type of community members that want to get involved obviously the Girl Scouts and boy scouts who've played a tremendous role in that area because it all started with the Eagle Scout project that wanted to plant trees back there which kind of brought that attention to that area so um and Norwood green team is going to play a part in you know be a good Community event so any ideas or suggestions we welcome just thinking about indigenous plants and um which may cut down the use of fertilizer if you're doing storm water yes so maybe there's expertise in Garden Club mhm um on our pollinator Garden sign we actually have a great visual that shows um native plant roots compared to non-native and the visual is right in itself it's it's like all how further down they go so that it's really they aren't heavily dependent on water they're low maintenance and they don't need right CU they're fertilizers issue um so yeah cool yeah awesome thank you great thank you Kelly y dear mitigation as I mentioned earlier we do have a um a date May 13th to be on the council agenda jod Powers will either be here with her team or uh dial in virtually she's the head of the she's the head biologist in this um division for njd Bureau of wildlife management so that's all I have really as an update that was May 13th you said yes May May 13th council meeting council meeting will she be pres presenting the issue or presenting a plant or I think how to solve okay he'll be presenting um you know how to mitigate we already know the issue right I mean that's but like will she be presenting something that she's already formulated or like bringing it up and discussing options with you know or soing and and sorry answer questions that Council might have yeah the council is concerned that you know make sure they want to make sure it's safe right so she can walk through that which this committee has worked through um when Jody talked to us um but I would encourage people to come and and voice support for it because it's it's um like we literally have blood in our hands right and to to have the environmental groups say that this is good for the environment um because a lot of people that maybe just glance at the issue will think the opposite so please come and is this something that we can also spread back to the people that were at the round table just to or share to other committees that also voiced and say yeah I it's coming so to find out and learn more and ask questions and also show your support from like a wreck standpoint because of you know the mess in the fields and you know just different areas that support doation I think the more people that come and speak from the public in support of it and from committees the better okay storm water management Kelly um I don't honestly frankly to tell you um what my role is with this storm water management other than [Music] um do we educate people I know that our town has not adopted even more stricter than the Baseline storm water management so I don't know what exactly my role is right here I think the first order of business is to work with Brian right and draft up something that we can present to the planning and zoning boards as kind of a white paper that they can include with you know projects that are being done in town I think it's an educational thing at education okay you mean new construction and Redevelopment within the town just to give them other alternatives to manage their own water run off from their houses right so is this like the trifold of the brochure it sounds like okay of of what you can do that's cost effective and also yeah again I I thought the prior document was too too much hard assets and not using enough biomitigation which I think is really effective first of all it's on the surface you can see it so if it's not functioning well you can say hey wait a second let's let's address this if you put in a dryw right there a maintenance process if it's not done then you're okay you have other problems so I think again especially like lawn discharge and biomitigation there's a lot of ways to for us we have a lot of open space you're in a really industrialized there in Jersey City you don't have that kind of open space to absorb the water and again Mike G and 14 and I were just talking about it you know recharging that ground water is a real important thing so if we can you know help do that that's a good thing and slow the water going to the river right right Brian exactly so when so that trifold that you I think you sent me who does that go to that goes to that goes to Planning and Zoning so that they have it for you know if I as a homeowner and doing work on my home like would they send would they give me that I wanted it to be like part of the packet that they would receive okay so like I go in for a variance my variance is approved you can begin your construction you have to M you have to include x y and z is that how this no so it environmental commission board me it's all is well okay bye-bye can you hear me yeah all right so it's it's it's just a small brochure that would give suggestions to do more and over above what we have adopted from the state as our stor management so there's a baseline that everybody and emphasis was on like um pervious driveway this so much better for the environment and my at least my idea was and it cost x per square foot and asphalt cost more right give them the options give the options sort of layout yeah that that not only can it be good for environment but you might save money and so is that kind of thing but the planning board now you guys are a different planning board than when I was on the planning board it was very much they didn't want it to be viewed as another sort of mandatory these were best practices we have ordinances nice to know not need to know yeah and there's state laws and stuff that govern you know but this is a little bit extra but the planing board didn't want it to be um I don't want it to be yeah I didn't want it to be another ordinance and it's just because we can't enforce it because the storm water management that we adopted from the state was the bare minimum so clean ocean action came out with a white paper with some more ideas and I have some more ideas as well and it's just yeah their suggestions so here goes on to like the policy part of the of the EC right so that's the educative part now the policy part is do we have any intention on adopting more stringent storm water regulations especially because we always said we revisit this or push them yeah like um in a couple years right we adopted those because we were at a deadline and we had to that therefore we adopted the bare minimum but since we are close Town rums and adopted more stringent you would I thought the intent was to revisit this and to adopt more stringent waste water is that so my answer to that would be think of think of like a Senate Judiciary Committee take the issue wrestle It To The Ground think of all angles all the pros and cons you know spend all the time that it needs get it done and then I'll do my best to make sure there's an opportunity to present it and if it can be done in a form of a a our ordinance you know then we have to sell the council so that's how I would see that okay but not not to just say hey we need to improve our and that's what you're saying but throwing Half Baked ideas you know is isn't going to do anything so finishing it would would be great and our storm water connect like person in charge of is Nick right Nick okay well either one but again we have a separate system we have two systems right we have our sanitary sewers and we have our storm water management and again I just don't want to make it you know prohibitive to have development and people living in town um I was just looking here there's 21 cities in the state of New Jersey that still have combined sewers which is combined sanitary sewers and storm water sewers and I'll give you the closest one is per d boy but Elizabeth Bay newer I mean we're so much further ahead by having a separate system so that when you have a storm event you don't have the open flow into the bay so I'm I'm always kind of like okay know when's the need for the next step you know and I really just don't want to make it difficult for people you know renovate their houses and again I'd rather use more uh you know again biomitigation as opposed to a lot of heavy duty stuff um to try and get us you know a small fragment higher when we still have per Amoy apparently going right into the bank but so you take all that into account you know yeah come with a with it done like this is how yeah we figure be just wondering like if that was ever on you know trying to be Revisited or or I think again I think we've always from my experience on the council and and again I'm a green but I'm a 990er I want to get the 90% on the ground right now then we'll worry about the next 10 later but some people are 100 percenters and I keep saying well we can't you know you can't stop at 100% let's get the 90 and again until we get per de boy out of the equation with combined sewers I think we're going to keep pushing uphill and how much can we is improving our stor water you know as instead of say investing in other issues might be more important for the short run you know okay so so right now Nick is uh reviewing it he has to do another update for storm motor Management in town but there's always better you know we can always suggest even if it's not an ordinance to you know here's better practices you know whether they do it or not all we can do is suggest it right and that's the intent and the CSO in the bay when I last talked talked to the njd they were issuing permits that was 5 years ago to get rid of the CSO in the middle of that so the next item is navyn River uh it's still getting cleaner as joh mentioned earlier we'll probably start do we'll see some more data in um probably the end of this month in April so I have some updated numbers for April mcarter yep can I ask a question Navas River Christy didn't you send out the uh there the update on the Navas River for environmental commission member that clean action is did I that yet yes is anybody from the environmental commission planning on attending that meeting yeah so it's March 20th at 6:30 I have the flyer in front of me um and I think everybody was emailed it um and it's at their offices at 49 avano Boulevard and L Ranch I will probably be there but I haven't in my calendar so yeah that that's that's yeah that was Spawn from our committee said it would be nice to just get a report back or like Fe you know just a larger so by the way the um I forgot which organization is hosting the purpose of environmental commissions last night was the first one that's recorded um yeah and there's another one tomorrow yeah 14 so those would be given the conversation I and then we also real quick while we're on trees the tree buying program was sent out to everybody as well for the uh it's a second annual from the shade tree commission and that can we can start to order trees actually right now March 4th to the 25th and they'll be planted miday thearter Pond I don't have any other update other than made a nice little area where that mud was they dumped some uh some stone in there today uh planning board Hannah I've got nothing um we have a meeting next week so I should have more great thank you and Brian Council update I mean nothing more than than I've already said plenty unless you have specific questions oh and so we have new business I think we have enough old business we don't need to add more new but maybe somebody has something to discuss yeah hold on one second I'm just thinking I had something in my head oh tree ordinates we didn't get an update what the heck's happening with tri on this that's my baby so I'm going to want to hear about it because I depended it for 15 years so so there is the shade tree Federation of New Jersey created a a model ordinance okay that is basically plug and play and each town can you tweak it so you you for example you can include a list of trees that you encourage people to plant native trees or you could do it the other way and say these trees we we discourage I don't know if you can prohibit it but but you can strongly discourage it um and then you can set the dollar amounts um that people have to pay if they don't replace a tree so there's some flexibility some tailoring to an individual town okay I think it's a fantastic ordinance um model ordinance so that's what I'm going to it's going to replace our existing yes and it's um there's I think it's tier tier four or tier B tier four there's a requirement that we have to meet and this ordinance was designed by that Federation to meet that tier four requirement what's that for for what I can't remember the tier four for what purpose just that's I believe it's storm water yes really yeah I love these ones by the way I love this when we're leading the pack and then we have to reoperate our ordinances because we were so far ahead of the game that our ordinances are not matching quote these model ordinances um we had to actually change an ordinance one time because we had the term firefighter in our ordinance and they wanted to have fireman in it and I said this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever done in Council is to change of word to an inappropriate word inappropriate word no but it was because of a model Orin I would just say I mean I always thought first of all the reason we instituted it was because of clear cutting we had a tremendous amount of clear cutting going on in the town and I always felt that every tree should have its day in court that if it's going to be removed it should have a good discussion and I always wanted to protect natives versus invasives and and I don't think our I don't know if our ordinance is going to have that but I I always thought it was more important to protect a native Holly than an invasive you or something you know I mean whatever it is just because just with that balance you know because again as we move if we could move our Urban forests closer to a natural Forest sure I think we'd be better for all of the Native species right if we could do that and so you know if you want to cut down a bigger I don't know Japanese maple I Som somehow you're less troubling to me than cutting down a native oak or something you know I just feel like that's a better investment of our time but I just want to make sure because when I first heard we're going to change it uh you know I just want to make sure we're not going to eliminate it because I think you'll see the wild west show back up we're not going to eliminate it okay um the I think the the Mac Truck Lo p in it um right now is safety um so as soon as you know you're up on the council and someone's coming they want they got denied and they want to take it down as soon as they say the word safety we all vote for it no no look like relative yeah but what am I going to say no and then the tree falls down and hurts their kid no but I think it has yes so if that's the reality that we live in right like let's use this model statute that was made by the is my opinion I think most the people that come before the council when you do approve them they're pretty receptive towards replacing them absolutely with something in other words it's not like they you're taking down 10 and you're losing 10 no they're taking down 10 but they're going to replace it with X number yeah replacing with natives is that part of well so we can encourage that that's part of what this does right so that might be part of the I I believe that people want to do the right thing like trees I really do what I think the problem is is that maybe a developer doesn't care so much to come in and you can't legally discriminate against them and you know so there has to be so thinking of a creative way to try to re that in and I trust the residents I just do I think nobody wants to cut a tree unless they have here's also the education C too right I mean so educating about the The Pick of the tree for the you were saying right John I mean like but also the storm water intake also the carbon dioxide also the shade benefits you get ofing effect and you know there's I mean there's a heat island and fair even downtown that's worth than Carney you know like we had a situation where the builders and I won't name names but you know their names they would come in and as a standard course of AC we cut every tree down on the lot because it made their building and con struction because they were building a very large house in the small lot and they wanted to place to put all the soil and the trees were an impediment to that so their solution was just and in River Oaks they would come in and they would saw down a 28 inch or 35 inch you know white oak or whatever just without and there was nothing we could say about it I think the fact is there are people who come in who have spurious claims let's just leave that when they come in but at least they have to then go through the process and try they have to pass the red face test you know they can't be ridiculous so if they're cutting down every tree on the lot you know you get a chance to at least say to them listen this is just out of control and the other thing is maybe in the ordinance we should encourage and say hey you know what if you if you're cutting down trees it's one to one with non-native species it's 0.9 or 08 to one where instead of you putting in 12 degrees you put in 10 if you use natives yeah I mean we have that flexibility that's a way to that's a way to encourage the natives to say hey you can say two trees if you put in natives because we really have to do natives so it's your call and the builders would love this because they'll be more than happy to go out and buy a red oak if that gets them off the hook for two trees you know so I think that's a way to do it and from what I've seen Council has been doing that yeah you know when people going for your appeals they've been saying okay it's very dilig very you know they're saying okay but what are you going to replace with and I don't think know if it's in the ordinance or not they've been trying to maneuver it so that that person will agree to the replacement is there any followup on that yeah they follow they do go back and check and make yeah and then sometimes it gets a little crazy I've had some I've had some crazy incidents because sometimes they want to put in shrubs and then have shrubs be part of the tree replacement and I'm kind of like I'm a big tree person you know I mean if you're if you're a 4inch maple I'm kind of like yeah really don't worry about you we'll replace you and you'll be replaced in five years if you're a 36 inch oak I want to talk about you and and native you know if it's a native species again if it's a native Dogwood I really want to give that a good day in court but I don't you know again I think again anything that's smaller than this that can be replaced in 10 years I'm kind of not as upset about as this I'm that's important which well changes like the landscape and the fabric of the town and the draw and a lot of it you know but it was definitely driven off of Revenue you know that was the easiest way to do the big proper you know the big buildings on a small lot was to clearcut everything and that was just ramped so well there was more the commercial end than the residential end yeah absolutely but you can as Brian said you can't regulate separately so right you got to have a rule that applies to everybody it's worked I mean I think for the last 12 years it's worked right I mean I don't think everybody's outrage with clear cutting I is it really an issue the town yeah there was there is a recent issue but the town clearcut the corner lot on Allen yeah that popped up as a as a major a miscommunication oh well yeah major yes thought something different than the people on the ground and they realize it too late I mean nobody's happy about it that's good information I just got so Ralph am I allowed to read this Ralph yes for sure all right under new business and I'll try to keep my composure as I turn 87 I believe it is time for me to retire from the Fair Haven environmental Commission on 41 of 2024 I retired as chair at the end of 23 after 10 or 12 I think it was more than it was longer than that but we'll call it 12 plus years and I feel feel pleased to have had this opportunity to serve Fair Haven best wishes Ralph thank you I wanted to read that because he will not be attending our thank you thank you thank you all right any other new business I just sent the history of Fair Haven fields to um Christie um from Jim Engel and if you have one second before we go I just want to read it I think they paid $872,000 for it $716,000 is what we paid for fair hav fields and at the time I'm sure it was outrageous it was outrageous it was an outrageous amount of money right and now sitting here would you admit that it wasn't an out right yeah but then again you look you could buy a house and for $50,000 and that was like top of the line it's just swe it out I on these ones you just sweat it out because not for you it's for the kids your kids I have one question the ER is this the environmental resource invent inventory of 2017 we're talking about that's correct I'm new at this so I'm learn stage yeah that's why we have to update it because it goes back to 200 okay and this other thing R for this is 2016 that is 2016 yes okay I want to make sure the right documents on reading because I don't I'm glad I'm glad confused got them printed right there in together you're already a step ahead and by the way the town didn't pay the money for the fields we got 95% of the funding from the feds but the feds too it was a Federal grant program at the time and you can read all about this in the ER say it said eight something back but it's interesting history of Fair things like that amazing size of the Town one point so and so Miles and this and this it's very useful it is very useful and so real quick I just want to um I have one more thing too but Ralph I do want to say thank you because you um were a leader in a champion for the environment and you were such um you had this you were the integral into getting sustainable Jersey and to getting the Green Team out and about and to actually getting us awarded the sustainable Jersey the silver award um you are just a strong supporter and uh thank you for that um really do thank you for being um so such a great Champion for that um speaking of that Ruckers 2016 report one of the major um it places that Rucker is recommended for a rain Garden is is at the site of um am not the historical fist Chapel but the current am church right there um they have been a pillar in this community for a very long time they are also dealing with a lot of disturbance um with the new police station that's right there and they have kindly allowed the police officers to park there um perhaps a sign of good gesture um collaborating with the historic Association could we or would we be willing to help plant a ring Garden there at that site that I thought that was part of the plan check with Drew but I think they are doing a ring Garden at the police station but this is at this will be next door this is there sites at the church oh at the church at the church you had the correspond with Teresa who trying to find the alternative spot remember we had talked about that that's when we got the living shorelines and um could this if we had permission from am could this maybe be this could however it won't be eligible for the AMJ open space it's private because it's private property public proper what is the cost um I mean what's an average cost for a rain Garden we had a grant for 2500 and I had to reill to get the money it was not but we you know it's volunteers from myself this great you know yeah I'm just thinking like we're throwing this art show where where the farmers market is Ben benefiting from it um but I can talk to this could be something we're doing it at this Chapel so former you know um something we could discuss is putting some of the funds to that as well so the town budget standpoint have to be next year the budget forms now sure but what is our e budget that we have being what is it allocated for that's that's um mostly for du dues and conferences education sure but that's it but we have how much money do we have in our budget BR last year there was a 2,000 enir the miscellaneous for green teamr that yeah there's a green team piece GRE teamie yes I think of that is um even contributing x amount you know $1,000 or $800 I don't know if it's what we wanted to do but and then saying that if historic Association of fairen wanted to collaborate with it or other organizations in town it just might be a and and volunteer hours great I do just thinking that it could also be a prominent spot for the rain Garden it's on the Ruckers you know perhaps it might just be something that we wanted to think about no absolutely if I can line if I can just add it's from your house Brian like right there prominent location so if I might add if I can get the volunteers from the companies that helped us at no wood I would venture to guess because at that point we would just have to pay for the materials which are the plants the median that we put in the rain Garten which is you know the stone and stuff like that filter cloth I would say I'll go out and say $1,000 might cost us if I can get rice Associates to give me a machine to to dig the hole and you know Riser he stepped up to the plate my buddy uh Burke hell he stuffed up to the plate and he volunteered you know his crew to do the you know the manual labor so if I can line that up again which I don't see any problem doing it won't cost much at all it'll just be for the for the materials about 100 bucks each we just B be halfway there two3 the way there you know like sign and you know communal Community project and while also benefiting the environment and addressing store watery Winn ask PL board and the environmental commission to kick in just say hey everybody kick in 50 bucks ahead and let's just have it posted as you know the native the community by the environmental commission I think that on top of that should be a meance plan I agree with that should not just be a standalone always that's we love to buy stuff and then I think that that's something that needs to be really well we would have to work that out probably with the G we're really nor put them on Facebook you know that I've been living here for 38 years and I've never once know have ever gone to the Normy Park yeah okay I just like I never it's recent but how much do you need and a good question how much when when does it end when does it end dble space well ask ask how much was made off the Marine Science Camp just that kids use that the other thing is some of it was swap because we bought the nor we sold a lot by by I I don't know no no put hold up time so let's get to public comment uh the Fair Haven EC welcomes comments suggestions and inquiries from residents of Fair Haven you must wait to recognize to be recognized by the chair identify Yourself by your name and address for the record limit your comments to three minutes please so I know we have somebody in the audience there right physically and then s Susan O'Brien is virtual in the audience quick comment first in s Colonial Court um on behalf of the public thank you Ralph thank you thank you Doctor Susan are there any public comments from the online attende no there are no further public comments can I do oh yes sure hi Carn Ferguson cour you know I'm the chair of the national area committee I just want to give you a little update on what we've been up to uh we are going to give our annual report at the V Council on Monday March 25th and then also uh we continue to work on our restoration project in the Northwest section of the Natural Area uh so last year you know we uh invested community money to clear that area of invasives this year we'll be working to uh apply herbicides uh to keep the invasives that the seeds are in the ground they're going to pop up so there'll be an herbicide treatment followed by seeding uh and so the idea is that it gets covered with grass mowed a bit and then uh after that we can uh plant some trees or plant a meadow but that will be happening in next year or the year after uh but I just want you know that project continues and um I think you made a good point Kelly about like the Third Street Trail like it showed us the way um and it showed a lot of people the way and particularly from the Natural Area we had this uh Northwest area that was full of vines and invasives for years U but we thought the solution was to hire a professional to tell us what to do like we didn't know what to do uh but then Mark Olson and team went in on the Third Street Trail and just started doing it and we realized like we can do what they did so like but that showed us you know so that the impact of that is really amazing in our community like a what they've done there then we were able to learn from them and apply it to the Natural Area um I think we'll be applying it to other areas in town um so uh that's like I said just really uh success story of what they've done and what they've helped us to accomplish um so I just wanted you to know a little little bit what's going on in the Natural Area thank you Carn thank you anybody else that is all okay do we have a motion to adjourn no mo have a good night Ralph thank you very very much from the bottom of my heart you were inspiration for me since I started here and I hope that I can continue the work that you've laid for us and uh and make you proud thank you sir thank you Ral thank you have a good night on the side of the post