##VIDEO ID:4R9QZcgaRLA## I don't know have any other people waiting for anybody else Sheila Katie says she's gonna be late because she's stuck in edwn but 15 minutes late okay and p i I left her a couple messages connect with her okay yeah but anyway this is started it's not loud but you're on okay this is the regular meeting of the Fair Haven historic preservation commission adequate notice of this hearing has been given pursuant to the provisions of the New Jersey open public meetings act at the time of the board reorganization in January of this year the board adopted its regular meeting schedule for the year notice of the schedule was sent to and published in the Asbury Park Press on January 26 2024 a notice of the Two River times on February 7th 2024 as well as supplemented by published notice on July 11th 2024 to allow of the hybrid format that notice was also posted on the bulletin board in the burrow in the burrow in burrow Hall and has remained uh continuously posted as required by the statute a copy of the notice and is and has been available at the to the public and is on file at the office of the burough clerk a copy the notice has been sent to such members of the public as have requested such information in accordance with the statute adequate notice having been given the secretary board secretary is directed to include this statement in the minutes of this meeting uh can we have a roll call Mr pabl here Mrs dond Mr Anderson Mrs Mullen here Mr here Mrs perfect time Mr Smith here okay so we we don't have any old uh any old business necessarily other than our liaison reports what we were discussing um sort of informally which is this cap standand uh element that's been uh that has been at the department of BU of Public Works so we'll talk about that at the end under our um commit liaison reports but we do have one informal application not basically an informal is coming to the commission for the purpose of indicating your house your structure and sort of getting the temperature if you will as to what you're allowed to do and what the commission allows would allow you to do um based on what we've done in the past and based on our criteria so that application is Wendy and Mike Bernstein at 699 River Road Block 27 lot 51 um and the work proposed is just general addition and renovation of that structure we can have you come up front and uh we'll hear from you or is that the historic district I'm wondering about that I thought it was pretty far down yeah that's by me on William uh from church where like where Church Street is Church Street so when I looked on the the the map we're not within the historical district so you would not have jurisdiction to hear from you however that being said um we would welcome and um gladly work with you in terms of uh any types of construction projects that you want to do any input uh we have a master builder we have an architect who's not here tonight but uh has particular Insight in historic preservation and you know uh additions and historically sympathetic additions to existing houses and things of that nature but we'd love to hear from you about the house you supplied some photos some history of the house when when you bought it and some other things just for our own information so so we're what we're asking for we're looking for an architect and AD doer uh a couple of names that we can go through so that's what we're asking for uh we're not really sure what we're looking at we know at one point our porch was open now it's enclosed we' like to reopen the porch and make it a rocking Trail porch and build out the back uh add in addition because the best views we have of the marsh because we have the we own part of the marsh for Creek um is from our bathroom which is really really s um so we like to like put a bedroom on the back so would open up and put a family room underneath it so that we can actually enjoy looking out at the marsh rather than using the bathroom to look yeah and maybe get rid of that tree that's our neighbors that the house that we were in the 699 was um Viola sickles she lived with her sisters okay so that was an interesting bit of history there that's interesting because the house on the Normandy uh my husband and I had owned it's it sits sideways probably maybe the fifth house down on the right it's yellow and I understood that was via SI when she was this is when she lived when she was a single woman living with her sisters though she was married to Arthur sickles so I think that house it was a sickles house and then because she was related to the the captain right of what's his name the Albertina captive thr our neighbors owned that house Chris and rof owned that house next door and they were the ones that suppli us with the history of what was going on in the house so she grew up in that house I I don't know technically if she owned it but it was a family from what we understand how old is the house do you know how old the house is 1905 okay so the first thing and Joe correct me if I'm wrong because you know better than I do this is probably the original portion of the house this element right here would you say that's the original yeah I that's original this may have been an addition on the side but an old Edition clearly the front porch which may have just been it may have just been this little sort of uh Gable structure but it may have been a Gable and L structure meaning that it had a side jut out probably similar to the roof line here with an open porch but you can see that they did you know they put these additions this is kind of an interesting little almost like a uh a cotti type addition that they're kind of putting on the front and then clearly that front porch was enclosed you know I'm thinking that that Dormer might have been an addition the front dmer yeah you mean that's what I'm thinking too right so that that actually is is a storage room that's not living space Oh interesting so that when they put in the uh the front porch and they enclosed it and made it a living area we think that they put that up top and expanded it because uh they really didn't have access to an attic so I think it might have been a flat roof and yeah and they put that in there just for storage area and the chimney is kind of interesting too Joe what do you think about that because it looks you know obviously it probably Services the furnace in the house no it doesn't no it's actually um the furnace comes out the side okay um that is our wood burning stove okay um because that looks like it's probably more moderate just at least brick Chim more it was when we moved did it was a different one and it was falling apart oh so rebuil that explains the brick yeah and then obviously it's probably you know the storm windows in the front are probably like 60s 70s probably or no we put those in what year did you move in uh 2008 2009 December 2008 okay but the only original windows are the two on the end of the so-called ey and and that Dormer the rest of them are we put in so you're talking about this one here that's that's the bathroom window we look out and that right next to it to the right bement window no that one that window there that's an addition yeah so that's the casement window oh yeah yeah oh yeah yeah that's part of that addition that's on the back the um that was put on there with a mud room coming up from the bottom so we a mud room with a bathroom off the side which is really outside okay and we want to enclose that make it a full bathroom and then up above is a it's another little storage area up here this Gable up here the one on the right the one on the left is the original bathroom window okay you want to remove that window and you want to put something so you can look at look well we want we want to take that area there the porch underneath it we want to take the porch and make it into a family room and off cuz you could Reserve that window you to do that's a very cool window on the back hand side if you go to I don't know if we have a picture to the left of it um there's another window at the on the staircase which is just a fabulous window and we have no idea what they put it there it's just the window that's there when we go up the stairs yeah yeah is that those windows were kind of like almost like the Builder signature when they would put them in you know there's a lot of them around like I lived in a house on 51 Clay Street that has almost an identical window a little bit narrower than that is there is there stained glass in there or it yeah so that was almost like Builder decorative signature a lot of them have the diamond on the bottom too yeah the that one just seems to be straight across the bottom just the diamonds on the top interesting it's a fascinating house it is I mean if you they would never allow it to be built today yeah I mean it is uh the upstairs hallway um you go up the stairs you go to the right and then it veers off to the left so it's not straight there's like it it goes off in a in a direction that we don't know why um but through that area through the middle of the house is actually the wood burning stove chimney and the sleeve so it act when we put it on it warms up the house it's kind of interesting because that's an interesting addition you know you don't really see that type of an addition fit on like it was very was probably very simple have you drive down River Road you see a lot of these just little right you know simple Peak Gable houses and um and you know I guess people try to do different types of things with somebody creative when they buil when they put the addition in this one that room on the left um that's the only room with more than one window in it um besides the front room that we um the porch That's the only one with a side window and a front window all the other rooms have one window how long had the family that you bought it from in 200 what say eight how long have they lived there before you don't know we don't know the wowski Oher they weren't you said you put new windows in did you do anything anything different replaced windows that were there anything different to the facade of the house we replaced the Windows they needed installation I don't no we did the trim the trim going down is different okay um than the original trim and that was that was just in the front right he had a job fitting yeah he had to re the windows it was kind prop so would you put some original you know original style Windows back in like the six over ones or if we to get them I mean that's what that's what we're need we need help on stuff like that we don't we don't know exactly the the original style of the house we we don't have any pictures I I did go to the library to try to ask and there the ones actually recommended to come to you guys right because I could find any old pictures of that our particular house I saw some of the street and some other houses but I didn't see our house and what it looked like originally there's something to compare it to any Architects at all I didn't find anything about that um I don't even know what kind consider a shingle style or what what kind of house it's considered because it's a mismatch it seems to me anyway I'm not quite sure what it is we we think we actually think that there's one picture of the house from the 1950s in the Fair Haven book because there was a car that ran into one of our trees and they had picture of the front of the house with the car on the on the lawn um Chris told us that was that was our house it was a car a car hit the tree and people were around it and they took a picture and stuck it in the book yeah that would have probably been early 1900s then if there was a car you know understanding there was a photo of a car no no no no it it was like an accident so a car ran off the road into the tree okay it was and they and it was an enclosed porch at the time it wasn't an open porch so we think it was from the 1950 oh gotcha gotcha gotcha yeah and I don't think that I think the shingle that's on the shingle of course that's they put a bigger shingle style and then probably was on the original anything think yeah it's hard to say um but I grew up in a house with a similar window going up the stairs in Red Bank and similar vintage house and it had just big one over one windows in the rest of the house and that house was built in 1912 which is pretty close to when Bill who do you think who would you recommend I mean you give a couple of names or something as to somebody consult with because that would all I we can't really recommend an architect no no we just we're just looking we're not looking for recommendations what we're looking for a suggestion and I just have to say um you represent what we want for Fair Haven in my opinion which is that folks don't have to come here and ask that question they can do all anything outside of the historic District they can tear down they can change they can do whatever they want so the fact that you're taking the time to research and you want to have the right architect you want to preserve it the best as you can I think it's just it's it makes me very it pleases me I I wish we had sort of like a I almost think we should have a repository like you said we can't make recommendations but to like have a readymade list of py people that are you know that do hist work but ordinarily the way it works we don't really tell you what not necessarily we don't tell you or we don't Advocate what to do or what not to do if you go and and want to do work on the house and and provide plans and specifications you come before and there's a give and take with us in terms of what we think would be historically uh appropriate or inappropriate that sort of thing we don't have jurisdiction so you could do whatever you want but to the extent that you want to work with us we're happy to work with you as well and we can make recommendations but that only be probably after you get your elevations or have your architect get involved and do sketches or even if you work with a builder you know certain Builders are a little bit more in tune with the historic aspect of things than others some just want to you know remove things and put you know do it in a way that's not really you know sympathetic to the original structure the sensitivity you know right to it's a beautiful really I appreciate that I think we all do great and you've you've also I mean we the historic commission and they heard me give this speech so many times one of our Charters is to help support or Advocate or teach or educate places that have are of historical significance just you saying that Viola sickles may have gone up there with her sister's Bingo now that's a beautiful link to the Fair Haven District because then she's lived her mared life there and you know there's just all kinds of cool history that fact that you're interested in it is something that I think we need to celebrate in some fashion yeah like when you're done with this I would love to see like a Fair Haven New Jersey post that says hey look at what these folks did because we need to show people that that's a good thing to do yeah it also does get pretty pricey though too I mean that's something you know you can you know there's an old movie called The Money Pit basically we already have I definitely think it was resided jingles too new fig so uh again you know maybe Jay Jay would probably have some ideas as far as Architects that uh uh that would be you know wanting to work with you I think that you know since he's a member of the commission he probably although I think he would be great and and he would be able to give you great ideas and he probably still could but then yeah I guess maybe he could because well maybe he's somebody that you guys should talk to and I'm saying it because of my knowledge of him and his ability to do things with a house like this and give you ideas and open up your eyes to certain things and since you wouldn't be coming before us on an application I don't know that it would necessarily be a conflict of interest work on old houses a master builder so there's no tip or to you know yeah but I'm not doing big big work anymore no I think a b big job yeah there are some good Builders around yeah so it's Anderson campanell is the architect thank you and um see if I can who's the one that you liked but for the um renovation of this Chapel but the girl ended up going to the lower bidder but you like other architect we talked about that last time P Alexander pav I don't think he would take on a project like this though um I'll give you that name though too um have yeah so the phone number is 732 219 0014 that's a good idea we do appreciate this thank you not our our pleasure so we we've worked with um historic architect in Spring Lake and he is for the most part tired but um he has other people that work him I mean he would you know probably want to look at this and have people that would you know be very enthusiastic to work with you it's called The Architects studio and his name is Alexander last name is pav Liv p a v l i v and their phone number is 732 776 877 77 you want an email address want email yes please it is m in Mary P Patrick 77 a i a aol.com a disclaimer we don't you know give out this advice or tell you have to use them of course but uh but this uh Alexander pli is a well-renowned his historic architect has worked on structures in Europe and Manhattan and is uh you know very well-renowned in in that space and he does have a a beautiful website with lots of examples of some of the work that he's done I'm sure um Anderson Cel does as well so you could look those up thank you very much we do appreciate this absolutely do appreciate you seeing this sure and when you get your plans together you know feel free to come back on an informal basis and we' be happy to give you know some give and take guess frequently frequently what we find are people come with certain ideas and it's a chore and they probably look at the commission as being um something they don't necessarily want to do or don't voluntarily want to get involved in um and we're you know sensitive to the fact that they may bring in experts they may have to spend money for that but the give and take and the ultimate the final product I think most of the people have been happy because they get a structure that they like even better than they did originally and you know it has our Collective input and I just think that the system works pretty well that way so hopefully we can you know lend some guidance to you and uh and have you have a prettier house that's uh historically accurate thank you welcome thank you very much very good thanks for coming thank you Happy Thanksgiving Happy Thanksgiving Happy Thanksgiving Thanksgiving okay so the administrative things we have next to the approval of the September 24th 24 meeting minutes which I'll make a motion that we approve I second Mr yes M yes Mr yes Mr yes and Mr SMI yes next administrative thing is the bicentennial Hall update which I will sort of put that into the liaison report for Katie historic Association we also have Michael here can fill in anything what's that I can fill in anything yeah so let us know on I'll start out with what we the association met and one thing that we were concerned about was that um it it appears that the work at ball has um stalled for lack of a better word due to the folks that were going to work on it are like a death and I think there was a death and all that so there were two parts to it one was the adaa work and then the second part was the punch list of various things to fix with the painting and um my understanding is I don't know any progress on either of those and the way we I'm glad and the way we knew that is that we were able to have a meeting there and we thought that the chapel would be shut down um starting now and our goal was to have it reopened in the spring so it sounds like you have an update so um kind of good better news come on up and then you just introduce yourself too just peoplei Council michaeli 522 River Road uh so the ada8 work is starting December 1 which is good news so they'll start that December first week in December they think it'll be done by February so that's good news you're right that the um punch list work has stalled and now it has to go out to bid again so that is kind of what's happening there um once sort of good news is on that front is that the um Chris York Chris York the administrator has gone after a $10,000 grant that could help with the exterior items on the punch list so like re finishing the side fixing the siding and painting the siding so there is potential for that work to hopefully happen is that in addition to the $ 38,000 grant that we yes so the historic trust Grant we did get awarded that it hasn't been um distributed yet but we did get the 38,000 that was the one that the historic Association um paid for the report to be done and um they were supposed to possibly match it but from the sounds of it it doesn't sound like we need to match anything right now so that's good news so that's 38,000 but that money is towards what we're going to to figure out what we're going to do with the pro with Vice aneno Hall the use of it and then that money can go like once we decide the use like say we want a new AV system or something you know like something or if we want new audio that would that money could be applied to that so that is good the good thing also about that is that having a report like that figuring out what we're going to do so what it would be is like a lot of public meetings um you know listening to what people want to do with the with the property um kind of surveys or something like that that report can help us go after other funding as well so that will be helpful to get more funding um I think what else the again the punch on hold and the other thing is that Robin um o Neal is going to put a Christmas tree out front again so it will be a Christmas tree out front and I think that's kind of it so Ada is happening hopefully done by February the punch list is on hold we have to go to bid um but there might be some work that can be done if we do get this $10,000 Grant it's a reg Grant it was through um the mammoth County Historical Association excellent and um before we begin any questions first of all questions um before we begin we were talking about this cap stand to which really has come to light uh due to some efforts of the association and uh I guess somebody um recognized it or saw it and was wondering what to do with it so off the Record we were having a discussion about it that it probably belonged some maybe the doc maybe the Fair Haven Dock at the end of Fair Haven Road um and obviously something associated with a dock whether it was mechanical or not I guess we going have to take a look and see and it was clearly um embedded in significant concrete you know aimed at anchoring it in place for probably heavy work and that sort of thing and that's you know it's probably 18 to 22 inches of concrete there that they took it out so what is the idea and what are the thoughts from the association or anyone else from burough Council as to this element in what they would want to do with it or what their thought be honest it hasn't come up as a as a whole I think you guys kind of got it first then the general body and if I may it we also discussed it the association that we we kind of have a rag tag process for this someone finds something cool yeah in town in their basement what we I would put the um the windows at the police station the original black school um in that category like people say oh we need to preserve it we need to do this we need to do that we don't have a mechanism like a process for person X found this let's verify his historical authenticity and I would think that um the super rich Gardella or whoever is in charge of you know the part the new construction or they should be in the loop of here's something that we want to be part of your plans yeah because I'm already concerned that with a police station they're taking out that window for example where is the window it's in the police station right now um but D Reen Ridge came in for in front of the council eight months ago very passionate and said actually I think it was before it was before I started yeah it a year ago and he said um we need to make sure that the significance of that building isn't left a chance said I don't want to see a quick like piece of cement marker there big Reserve is the window wrapped up is it uh is we don't know the plans for that although at least Casey said that they talked to a demo guy who knows how to take care of it like the burrow or I don't know that's the key say it's in the police station where is it in the police if you walk in the front door right over the front door there's a about six feet oh so it's so it's part of the police station it's not being stored it's not okay so so it hasn't been removed or not yet oh part of the old police station yes that big round window yes what's significance of it it's a beautiful window and it was part of the original historic school um and I talked to the superintendent of school Sean mcneel just we had a loose conversation and I said wouldn't it be cool if the window under which you know black kids walked under every day to go to school now is at oldwood you know like and then we were talking about that with rules you can't have that kind of Glass on the outside of a school building anymore and so that we just just brainstorming I just want to make sure that we don't hear oh demo is next week yeah and then everybody's scrambling to say make sure you protect that window I just want to make sure there's a plan I'll I'll follow up on that and see what the plan is people have been sensitive to that though so I know came up and I know what they said it was said that it was going to be saved but I haven't heard an update in a while so I'll find out and aren't they wasn't there also plans to keep the um the light cuz I know I had brought that up those are really pretty and I think I'll I'll follow up and let you guys but related to that I did talk to a retired guy from DPW who smiled and said yeah everybody thinks that was for the Albertina but I'm not so sure somebody said on Facebook that it was on their parents property I just found that post yeah I think you guys both commented on Baton Road Peter little yeah yeah the cap stand belong to my family was kept by our little house at the end of he's the descendant of the original Captain yeah remember hauling family boats out with it when I was a kid I photos of my great uncle Captain Ed Captain Ed little working with it yes I don't know it's origin but it was always there so I left the area I was at the little piece of property at the end of Baton Road it was there when I left town in 76 so it seems to me that um perfect place for it to be in the new park next to the do that's what I think but the only thing is is it D you know is it kids are going to blim on it is it dangerous that's the only thing so I did go on YouTube I found a guy that restores that and he has a process for how restores it and SS it and make sure it's not rough and all that is he an expert and yes soorry what where is he at it's not it's not a che you send it's got be brass I would think what was the purpose of it like for it's like a big have around it I think so like when you see one on actual big winch that's and you think that maybe put something in there and that was they turned it I'm have to take a closer look at it sounds like this person would be a great first s take close photo so maybe you can give us some idea you know probably look at it immediately yeah that's from what um have you looked at it close up close I have not I mean that would be cool to get information too and like have a plaque made if we're going to do something I don't know and by the way little I mean if it's somebody's house I mean you know a little bit different than if it was you know you know fairhead dock but yeah and vea sickles by the way was a little that's what the L is okay so when she lived in their house that was part of the little F anything else so do you know anything else about this anybody said I can follow up that like how did that come about on that Facebook post I I I actually just Googled capan Fair Haven and the first thing that popped up was these this Facebook post um it looks like somebody because this this is the the street over for me someone named uh Chris brener um yeah posted and said you know hey what what's you know is there a plan for this and and this guy Peter little it was on like the Fair Haven Facebook page or whatever yeah and the guy this guy Peter little said that that belongs to my family and he comments quite often when anything historical comes up he mentions the legacy of his family I think we should start with Den yeah sounds like he's he's certainly willing to chat sound good and if there's real money involved and restoring it that's outside of the budget for the park sounds that might be an opportunity for something fundraising you have an email um I have a it's just like the Facebook profile I can you could just DM yeah message you could I'm not on Facebook I can do it yeah right I can I can yeah I'll message him probably spell it c a t s t an I'm not getting great service but I'll I'll put calar okay anything else uh from Bicentennial Hall no um any environmental commission news I got nothing I haven't heard from anyone in kind okay the last thing we got it sorry the tree ordinance did go through that so that that would be of environmental commission piece um so the tree went through basically if anyone um tears takes down a tree they need to any applic has to go through there's no denial but you would have to either replace it with one or two trees depending on the size of it and or pay into a fund is it does it depend on the size or the species of the tree how much you pay into the fund what's that for one tree and then but there's no limit on the number of trees you can cut down either so it used to be if it was over what 10 inches they you have to get approval you don't have to get approval anymore okay yes no approval okay just application but but it yes okay unless it's um if it's deemed a hazard tree you still have to do an application like if it has fallen you still have to do an application after the fact okay I had a question that's not on the agenda ask it now or that's fine so how would you answer this question someone who lives in the historic district lot of talking said I want to sell my house but I think it'll be worth more if I'll be able to sell it if the buyer knows that he or she can redo it do a tear down you know and we build it and and I said I don't know how that works I said because of we don't you know what I mean like how does that work so I mean we either have jurisdiction or we don't Well we I'm saying so so the seller and the realtor uh the question is asked they obviously have to indicate that it is and that frequently we get contacted by people that are like contract purchasers Realtors you know what can I do what can I do they say you got to come before us and we'll let you know informally informally okay that's the proc so if someone was interested the the seller could say you need to yeah and I frequently uh entertain questions and they ask a lot of different things and I have to of course say that I'm not making a representation from the commission but you know if they say they want to change like a screen door or something it's not a big deal but if they want knock the house down you know we have to alert them depending on the house that you know it may not be so easy to do that right um if you're allowed to at all so okay so it's not you know um in terms of the value we weighing in on that it's not something that we would really do and I asked this person I said do you do you have do you care he's one of these people like I have no emotional attachment anymore so it doesn't it doesn't matter to me if someone tows down the house that he grew up in or not like he's just just wants to cash in cash in he wants to cash well get good yeah because how about um GRE and Greg Lois's house on Las V two bedroom and it was uh went on the market for 1095 and sold for 1.4 that little gray one is it gray white one it's got like a little like eyebrow window on with with the redo perhaps down the road four FL no it's in perfect condition it's in perfect condition is it uh on your side of the street about halfway between U River Road and Clay it is so it's on the right hand side kind of across from Jack's house on gpie oh on Gillespie I'm thinking house onesie yeah the house on Normandy sold and I hear people oh well that's a te down that's a te down I'm thinking myself oh so you're what did that house s for something like eight was on for 775 but it's in a very bad condition I was thinking that one for one4 away now we're in business yeah exactly yeah no that that one I mean I don't know what apparently the Foundation is um wood you know stumps like tree trunks oh really yeah so I'll probably get an application at some point sure thank you okay anything else on that or did we look at anybody 2025 um meeting dates had to move uh I think two of them because of council meeting that's uh oh and then the other one I just wanted to call out in April it's just the um that April 22nd is the Tuesday after Easter but the fair hiden school break is the week before so it's not a complect with yeah I would think maybe December 18th as opposed to the 23rd yes yes pleas the Thursday the 18th okay that's what we were hoping oh so you're saying you're saying Thursday the 18th I'm saying could we do Thursday the 18th but you know if you went by the calendar to figure out when our usual dates are it would have been yeah when is our December meeting um 17 on Tuesday yeah so I would I I'd make a motion to approve the dates as uh depicted with the May meeting being on Thursday May 29th to me that's not the day before Memorial Day think it may I think that would put the Monday day is May 26 okay all right so that Monday yeah so yeah May 29th and then the December meeting would be December 18th as opposed to the 23rd yeah I think so unless anybody has an issue okay okay I don't have to pick vote if you want to I don't know if you have to you will have them on the agenda in January for like approval but this is really to get everybody on board so that we okay okay motion to close unless there's anything oh unless there's anything from uh the zoom world [Music] no very good everybody it's funny we're off aren't we