order the meeting this is the re uh it is actually a reorganization meeting in the historic preservation Commission of the barel Fair Haven this meeting was called pursuant to the provisions of the open public meetings act notice of this meeting was advertised in the atre Park Press and notice that the two River times and the Star Ledger on December 29th 2022 posted on the Burl website the bulletin board the municipal building is remain conspicuously posted as required under the statute in addition copies of the above notices are and been available to the public and are on file in the office of the municipal clerk with adequate notice having been given historic reservation commission secretaries directly to include the statement in the minutes of the meeting can we have a roll call Mr paa here Merson here oh Mrs Drummond Mrs Mullen Mr schutter here Mrs Mandy M Bora here Mr Smith here and Mrs M here all right so the first thing is I guess we have to do the uh we have to do the election or the reappointment for both chairperson and vice chairperson um I'll nominate Jay again to act as Vice chairperson so I'll second take it to a vote unless you want to be chairperson no Mr P yes Mr Anderson oh wait I'm sorry Mr SCH yes Mrs Pisa yes Mr Smith yes Mrs N yes thank so much conratulations I we do have to do chairperson to I'd like to nominate AR I'll second Mr Anderson yes Mr schutter yes Mrs Bora yes Mr Smith yes and Mrs mcka yes okay so now we can go and take the oats it's a good point we'll go do that now because I I wasn't really looking at the reorganization so now we have to do it at some point so that's the way it goes before we got reappointed we wouldn't have to do that so okay got to go do it at some point just pop in and Alison will give you give a good thing so okay uh I'm going to kind of shell Vice ending a hall Until the End we'll talk about it uh towards the end uh because I want to continue on with Rebecca padulla so we'll I know that she has her Builder here today tonight so we'll try to get you taken care of as soon as possible this 3 Normandy Avenue blot lock 49 Lot 19 it's removal and replacement of existing window siding gutters sofit fascia and Roofing uh Miss pul was before us last month and there was some uh question as to a couple of the things that she was looking to do some decisions or some suggestions that were made by the commission and I think it was a joint decision made that you wouldn't commit and that you would sort of adjourn your application and come back this month uh and with a little bit more specificity and be able to explain what's going on what you're facing within the field and what you plan to do um in the meantime I also had off the Record a discussion with Miss P concerning these issues and um I suggested to her that her Builder communicate with either Mr Anderson or Mr schlutter I believe that has in fact happened this way we're all on the same page in terms of what the concerns are of the commission uh the Builder is uh is in tune with what our concerns are and hopefully some type of a Reconciliation can be made so with that being said we'll hear you yes um so last time one of the issues was um the molding or the finishing molding and forgive me because I'm not build the ex okay so um the request was to finish that in ASAC and I actually asked the question if that could be done with stco because I understood that that could be possibly be an issue the way that the windows are inset into the sto and so having a discussion with Serge and then they the two of them spoke and I think the resolution is it's it can't be done okay um just introdu who you are uh my name is Serge uh Serge brki I'm a project manager windows and doors Division and Global home woman contracted to do the uh project um I'm here um for the to for the windows pretty much but if there's any suggestion I'll take the notes for my uh project manager for roofing and project manager for Sci um the major concern about the windows because that the windows takes more time to manufacture especially we working with um Infinity uh Marin Marvin by Infinity by Marin it's the fiberglass windows and takes a lot of time to manufacture because it's pretty much all uh and assembled Windows uh if you want to see the windows I have here you want to be [Music] closer yeah let me just and these are the windows yeah that's the type of the windows it's double H it's piece of double um obviously request this black color and the black color would be like that also there is the black um grits on the top sash only and if you see what pattern I can yeah I show it to you too that's the manufactured file basically that's the spe file that what the manufactured to manufactur the windows all right so this is it's an aluminum clad window it's not aluminum it's the private yeah that's that's that's what it is [Music] it's it's it's a manufactur no Marin Marin is one of the oldest I believe they're it's a fiberglass pultrusion which is how it's made it's it's their Market name for have we ever had any decide issues on on fiber windows or what do you guys tell something actually more of a composite yeah it's almost P to like an ASAC I mean it looks like it's textured it doesn't really give off a metalic Look until you look at construction this you know that's but it it you know from the exterior it looks like wood yeah I the inside yeah so you that's the right when we were talking say this was the casing that's there the exist you're going to keep the existing frames for the windows existing trim that is um yeah that's what's the trim you you haven't now right see that's the we cannot remove that was that partially covered by the St you'd have to saw this off the stock up yes so what we have to do same on that example that's called exterior St that insert type thing yeah it's the frame insert entire frame see assume that we're going to cut this off and we're going to the window is basically like this yes it's just this part yeah you're using the existing frame so like a a replacement physically replacement M because the new construction goes with the m and there is no chance for I've done stuff like that on on brick buildings and I you know used a diamond blade and cut that back and been able to pull the the windows out it's a lot of work yeah but that's not a replace this is repl what are we going to do we're going to cut off that exterior Stu that will allow us to s the window to fit the opening using existing yeah yes exactly and and then we're going to replace it with the ASAC or or W could be wood and then it's going to be painted yeah and then it has to be painted ASAC times in um in white color on where is that where's that as that comes in Black now well but see I don't really like how it look I mean it's same if you know I'm sorry if I'm Sten out of the uh topic that Windows was came in a plastic that is already mixed paint with but wood would be fine with us um yeah it's going to be a little tiny basically a replacement of what we have here I mean on her windows it's a little bit bigger it's like 3/4 by 34 here is this little 3/4 in wood in just exist it will pretty much match like the existing window that was there slightly smaller is the preference to do wood or is the preference to do ASAC there's no there's it's going to be painted one way or another obviously the ASAC is more I mean you'd probably rather go ASAC just wood is gonna you know just depending on how much sun paint the ASAC black it expands like so much more careful that I would recommend with the wood but you know it's your because you got the rest is W too exactly right so you mix two different three different so the way I'm writing this up is that I'm going to leave it either wood or wood simulated ASAC Tren 34 in right and you said that you have divided upper light upper sash yes um is this what you were in the fence about last month yeah yeah to a decision on what you'd like to do I'll take the recommendation of the committee the six over one see that's uh I mean that's what we have now on file it's not final but this is the how the windows going to look like and all of the if you need all of the technical uh details about the window of energy saving and the performance and is that what a simulated divided light or it's not not it's it's it's the gbg it's the glass between the grids okay so how what's the description of that so it's it's the great inside Sim so it is a Sim it is a does it have an exterior Grill that's that's a CDL this is the that the CDL that you're talking about this is simultaneously divided lights can you uh I mean we we obviously we're not concerned about the inside but for the outside can you get the um spacer bars uh glute or tape to the outside is that an option with this line of Windows uh no I mean they glued because they exteriors they glued the window yes yeah but but is that is that inside and out okay but so it does have it's not in it is on the outside but there is a spacer bar on the inside on the outside on the inside between the glass yes but my question is um because we're not really concerned about the inside whatever you know works for you but the but the outside there is a a difference the the spacial bars between the glass look a lot less historic than if you can take the ones on the outside I don't know if that's available with they they are there is going to be molding on the outside pardon there is going to be one on the outside that's that's like I said there's a two type of the GDs one is glass GDs between the glass so where is it here exactly you cannot access it you cannot touch it you cannot I mean it's there you see it but there's nothing you can do with it or C simultaneously divided so there the great physically outside the piece of material um no it's mostly heral because of the significant difference in the price well I mean our our feeling at least my feeling is that there's a significant difference in the appearance of the windows having the um right looking like you have the sticking on the outside versus it would just be a square bar in between the glass and it doesn't look uh traditional at all the house I think next to you you see the black glass and you just see the white spacer board with black spacer bar in between the two pieces of glass you don't want that's called how they're going to be constructed that's that's what's the in the plan now but we would like to see on the outside yeah yeah I think so because we've we've been consistent with enforcing that so that's the increase in cost for that is just not feasible for me because I'm doing a large project and I just you know what does it I you know I think having like a four over one or even a two over one with a a divided with the sticking on the outside of the glass versus the the spacer bar in between CU I think that that's probably more important than even the the the number because it's not like the spouse is consistent with any kind of design what's the price is if you do a four over one is the Price Less well I don't see the manufacturer doesn't count that that if it's GRS what kind of GRS if it's t s or or both s it's that there is no there is no different difference between 2 over two or 3 over four or two or three it doesn't matter to them it's the manufactur that's the price you put the price you put the grids on the type of the grd the manufactured calcul have you priced it out yes I got price so what's the like how you're saying it's so they're just doing it on one of the two sashes yeah yeah just one s just one just one sash thisd CL because I'm doing a large project I'm also doing my so this it's not a small amount I get it but I think that um yeah I mean I I just don't see how we basically say because it's more expensive than we just go back on what we've been consistently saying for on almost every project then I won't do the windows that's fine so you're withdrawing the window withdrawing that part of the if I can't get it done any other way then I guess that's going to be the decision yeah Pi can choose okay all right what else do we have that was Maj concern major concern was the windows everything else I thought was fine unless I misunderstood anything from last meeting I don't think the board has an issue with the pusan or there's a new name the the old trucks what they call it now oh actual mat what is that the material of the material of this type of window um as a replacement window I don't think we had a problem with that it was just just sticking uh only being between the glass versus being on the out yeah but now the windows are off the table so was there any issue with the roof or the side there was another that we spoke of yeah I you're not doing anything not at all okay so um just refresh our recollection about what the issue is with the what you're doing with the roof and what you're doing with the St we placeing the roof around the inside house asphalt um and then the the porch is standing seam met the metal I don't and again forgive me I'm not in construction I can't articulate the materials accurately uh but it was in the the last yes yeah and I believe uh you guys mentioned something about the fasia that you have some special requirements for fasia to be used by PVC is that correct like the ASAC or wood as opposed is is the name I'm sorry sh but ISAC is the name of the company right so to us PVC that's called well solid PVC as opposed to the hollow oh no no no there's no Hollow PVC I we not playing the games espe Asia I mean asphal shingle roof is what already do we have uh the application last month because I don't have have okay so um removal and replacement of existing Windows which we're not going to deal with the siding um what's what exactly is the issue with the sightings read there was no issue as far as I understood from last discussion it's Hardy plank yeah that's that's something real support I I think uh that being said I I think our recommendations usually you can get it with something with a simulated wood grain or you can get it smooth we we usually recommend the smoother side because that's looks more consistent the other uh looks and obviously the asphalt shingle roofing to match what what is existing and you have reading off the application again materials to Ed atla Atlas asphalt shingle roofing main roof Ro black standing seam metal roof lower porch black um that I don't think we finalized or deci side of the issue on the lower porch the the the black roof uh on the lower porch um so think he was saying that it's not not all that visible because of the pitch yeah and there's a metal roof next to me on the porch so just approve front porch grp withing last year yeah I mean look again we've talked about in the past it's it's a house I mean what you're doing is going to make the house look better clearly um but um it's not a house that you that we have to be concerned with being consistent with other houses or consistent from a historic perspective so I mean I got no issue especially with its limited visibility with the black we have anybody has any thoughts on very agree and the only other thing that I noticed when I stopped by there was the uh the fases and rakes were done in an aluminum coil they were wrapped in aluminum Quil so that's when you R do the siding that's going to be changed and then done with the PVC defin all right so what I have is um again the asphalt shingle roof uh replacement what to what is currently existing solid PVC fascia and rake Hardy plank siding and uh the metal black roof uh is acceptable as proposed can I make a recommendation to on the Windows should you change your mind why don't we approve them if contingent on the sticking on the outside should you want to do it so you don't have any reason to come back here so again you said you're not going to do it but I would just assume if you change your mind I and again I think if it was a two over one a four over one I think even the six seemed at least if that drawing was a scale looked a busy up above so probably the the four over one or even the two over one would be a better one but should you choose to want to do that with the the the sticking on the outside will approve it uh should you want to do that just in case you change your mind that makes s how would you describe it Jay in terms of some type of simulator exterior divider um sticking is one one or or milons of muttons is another can call it exterior G that's the the manufacturers that exterior GDs exterior GS um okay so you what I'm going to do then I'm going to the approval will be for the fiberglass Marvin infinti series Windows um replacement into the existing window frame with 3 quter wood or wood simul a simulated ASAC trim two four or 6 over one window configuration with exterior applied uh with exterior applied separation grates asphalt shingle roof replacement sold PBC fascia and rake party plank siding metal roof acceptable as proposed um any other elements that we didn't think of do you need to mention the gutters uh tell me what you're doing with the gutters just replacing them as is it say black exterior Hardware I mean it's going to match the roof knot Susan any thoughts or comments no okay uh so I will make the motion for approval of the application uh to implement five or glass Marvin Infinity Series Windows uh replacement into the window frame with 3/4 in wood or wood simulated AAC trim two four or 6 over one window configuration with exterior applied separation grates asphalt shingle roof replacement solid PVC fa fascia and rake Hardy plank siding metal roof as proposed and black exterior gutters as as proposed do you need to specify the color of the window no I don't think so we don't really so you're fine with just want to make sure that no questions sof now so we have to take the vote though so uh Mr P yes Mr Anderson yes Mr SCH yes Mrs yes Mr Smith yes Mrs NAA yes okay congratulations see oh wait sir um it's Serge s e r g e e and your how do you spell your last name boy r o d sky sky okay great thank you sir my busard secret she has a major project she's doing here's one for [Music] you one left thank you guys thank you have a good thank you all right so um back to Old business which um is going to be the B atten Hall update Katie you know more than I do about what's going on what's going on so yeah uh two main things I talked to Elise who's the president of the association today they had their um reord or first of of the two meetings of the year with the the board and the members are they called members what what are they call trustees yeah and um so um on that front the I think the most important thing is that there's now this stakeholder group so um the stakeholders are sort of a subdivision that focuses just on the concerns of what the Improv is to buy Hall will be and to the point where I think that will probably be the more meaningful update every month and that's on Thursday I will be there and I think are you going to be there as well I can be I'm an alternate I'll be there on Thursday um and I I don't know is pad live GNA be there is the art don't no don't know um so so that's one update so I think every month you'll be hearing like a stakeholder report because that's sort of the the the other things that the association does of course is the fundraising and digitizing And archiving and I talked to councilwoman today about some of those projects um good you um the other issue or other thing was I I asked how is it going and just slow was the response so um I don't know the specifics of what the slowness is but so I don't have a report to you on what the next step is on the improvements that um architect have is working on maybe Thursday there'll be more information on that so um uh on a side note uh because it's sort of the the police station which is redone and that's the original um and I was air quote it but that's what it was called the colored School of Fair Haven um that will be taken down completely and we do know there's been um conern caring they want to folks just want to make sure that the history of that building is maintained and it's very much intertwined with B Hall office travel and chief the government told me that's not happening till 2025 so are they going to salvage some transing window or yes so the window is going to be both the window that's over the front door is going to be uh salvaged and the two really cool retro lights oh cool are also going to be uh salvaged when that happens but um 2025 gives us breathing space to figure out this is more from a um messaging what we're going to talk about the history so the association will take that on um um certainly Black History Month is coming up all sorts of things but it's not being torn down yet it's not going to be till next year okay so and that's all I have all right I'll see you Thursday yeah and um where's the new police station is it gonna be there it's going to be there sports St have you been to any meeting lately no I haven't I haven't even received any emails since certainly since last month okay I'm sure everybody looked at the um well we approved the meeting dates and um approval of the December 21st minutes so I'll move to move those minutes accept those one the things I was thinking about I don't know what what everybody's thoughts are and I got to look and see I know we have a budget but I think that the commission I think that the uh what we should do is if there are any houses that somebody's done like an extraordinary job with restoring and preserving that we should probably look maybe um you know applauding them to some some degree maybe a plaque or maybe some type of certificate or something like that I know there's a couple of houses around maybe even the one that we just recently heard of doesn't necessarily even have to be something within the district or or an application that we've heard there's another house that another time in the corner of P right by where you do the um where you do your crossing guard thing that white house that's on the corner right across where you Ed sold house and Penny Annie yeah did a great job there and that that's a house that's so easily could have been knocked down because you can see that it was on the North side on the on the opp side on the northwest side northeast side it's in second or oh right I always get so confused it's like River Road it's on the on the riverside if you're going out of Fair Haven it's on the right it's a White House on the corner P the black and white door still have a cedar Shake roof uh I'm not certain if it does I mean it's got Cedar shap white exterior did a great job looks like an older Farmhouse yes yeah it's owned by two they used to be a doctor's office that one maybe yeah I mean we obviously I mean I'm GNA look into that but I do agree when I walk around um I I have the sort of fit SP Haven not fit SP Haven and there are some redos that you feel like if you were looking at a photograph from 100 years ago I don't care about the materials but there's something about the aesthetic of the house the prop portions of the porch the front porches to begin with um the a little bit of front lawn like there's something about it that feels fair havy and I always wanted want to like do a shout out and I have done if the builders are there I will say nice job and care but I I like where you're going with them but it's and it would be something obviously we'd have to you know we we any one of us could select a house and then we' probably we'd have to take a vote on it obviously but there probably is a couple around rson has something similar and it would kind of not that it's such a big deal but I think it would encourage what we're looking to doiss does you know more just to get a PL one approach might be to use similar to what the burrow does with their Halloween and Christmas contests we could throw it open also public is there a then you got awareness people start look look at the houses and we'd have to have some criteria we don't want it to we would not want it to turn into a and that's why we're mad about that house we don't want it to be that kind of thing or you know yeah but nominate homes that you feel that you we could write some criteria about what it means and then um celebrate that in some fashion yeah all right we can explore that but I think um I'm going to find out also I know that we have a budget which we've never tapped into but there is some kind of budget on the suit you know in terms of getting the flaque or like doing any kind of publication I thought you was going to say I want all go out to din I'm okay with that I don't know it's pretty historical Maybe yes so all right so we can explore that as we go down a lot so yes yeah last element is public comment come on up we'll hear you so um michaeli I'm officially your Council leis on I think I'm with Betsy as well so I'm G to try to come to every meeting as much as possible um so I'm newer I big history buff but I'm a little bit newer to what's going on kind of with you guys so I would love to conversations to get caught up but I have a question just because like I am looking eventually to do my house and like is I know we talked about getting the DAT base and that didn't happen yet but like if someone did want to redo their house kind of traditionally where can you find like I looked through all the books you know like the Fair Haven books like are there yeah you know like ways to do that like how do people generally go about it restoring a historical home yeah it's really I think just kind of looking around some of the original structures a lot of the houses down Fair Haven Road give you kind of like a real you known I live on River Road and mine is like a hodge podge so really right near where you're talking about actually I'm on between H and acne okay on on the on which side South South Side so it was it has multiple editions like it's it has no history left to those are historic those old it is a historic and you can tell by my basement that no you can't really tell so I'd love to eventually what year is it built so we think it's around like right when the town was incorporated so night but I think it was probably built before that but maybe just got put on the books on yeah6 I was going to say they had that tax just like stand in yeah so I think I'm not sure to be honest the basement is very old like you can really tell brick or stone it's Stone big huge Stone that's on brick too actually it's is there like an old or original element of the house that then you said has been built on but can you kind of isolate some portion of the house that would be original soort the front the front B I think it was one room at one point I've heard from my neighbors there used to be a um like George Washington side like um height ceilings and then the the wall like the stone wall in front of it we're one of the houses at the closest to the street so it's really close to the street it's probably not even to be honest probably like the trolley went right there yeah so I think that there was like the horse the horses could pull up right there and so I'm kind of bum that I'd love to put a stone wall but I don't think there's enough property at that point but yeah so so just add of curiosity like yeah how do people come about it they just do their own research I guess yeah or or engage a professional that has that they're mentioning this one architect is down in Ocean Grove that he that he specializes in that because that was another question it's like finding an architect who would try to preserve or bring back some of the history and you know well Jay you Jay has a great eye for just look you know having something that's contemporary but just have being to use your description sympathetic to the original I you know what or Joe and I can come over and take a look at it I have to work work on work on my flooding first I a lot of issues there that's been flooding a lot that area over by yeah I'm I'm if you look back I'm I got massive flooding like I I have some major issues it comes right off a River Road and pools in my backyard in the last couple of years what what happened that uh um well I think River Road kind of always had some history of flooding there's this is a whole big storm water discussion but that's kind of what we talk about last but the building behind they built up um the development Colonial Court around behind me on two sides and so they I'm essentially a catch patient now for all the water coming off over the road and coming it used to be like Marshland back there and now there's nowhere else for it to go B my yard had the acne in between hands Colonial Court I'm trying to remember yeah so Colonial Court's like parallel to River Road but from Smith Street correct okay so I back up to Colonial Court yes um so I'm kind of in the middle of the block I used to live at the corner of river enhance on the other side of the street so it doesn't look that great from the outside that house is cute on the oh that house is awesome the one the porch yeah yeah no I love it I love all those houses no I mean I love where we live but that's how trying to figure yeah I'm a little yellow 52 sure pass by yeah um so this commission though only has jurisdiction in terms of when people have to make an application before us only for houses that are in historic district so houses along River Road there's many historic houses there but they outside District we in our purview correct but you bring up a great Point as far as the repository of um resources we can't really I guess Advocate specific vendors per se but there's there's a lot of re like how do you get from the historic district all you know 100% eyes on that to some kind of awareness yeah the questions you asked we we had an applicant here who didn't have to do a lot right he the yellow house was it he wanted to get his our opinion on did he come before us because they wanted our opinion on I know the commercial building on um yeah Douglas El building oh yeah so we have so yeah so a good idea for us I'm excited to work with you guys and yeah yeah and if if you know the time appropriate I like you said it's probably a bit of a puzzle because it's been built over time it is but there's probably some Clues there to what it there's an original banister or um piece that was on my that was a porch eventually they closed in the porch but there is one piece in my house that was original Pole from the front porch I know that's original a lot of times you get tell like by the they used to use like the the banisters were like the signature the way the woodwork was done on the and and the way your staircase going up to the second floor is often unique or I shouldn't say it's Unique a lot of houses locally Joe well you guys have both seen it but Joe you've seen a lot of similar kind of like woodworking on the I'm really interested so I'm glad that know I connected with you guys do they did the fair books did you check Fair box I looked for my house specifically and looked kind of all through I think I was a one room house that was maybe kind of like the help to Rumson is kind of my feeling and it was like just square and a porch That's you might check with the the author of the book A Randy [Music] Gabrielle and I also want to go to the I know that the county has some records and stuff eventually because apparently the ones were flooded here or something I years ago tried to get can't you just because now you can just do it yeah you can look your lot and everything up I don't have pictures come up no but I mean in terms of tracing the history of the house getting the original deed but yeah back in the day Hippa rules or if you look at the newspapers from the early the Red Bank register or um yeah which I have best subscription ever back in the day they literally would say you know Katie foror 12 120 with six lexingon had a little bit of cough and her husband went up the W you know they they wrote about everything by the address you can find like I'll type in the address of a Fair Haven home and discover you know who's dog was sick and then you can do some slothing as to what the profession was folks who live there cool I'm definitely going to do that thank that I'm also trying I am trying to go to the B Centennial hall meeting the by hall meeting because I want to try to I think that'll be good to have someone on the council also be connected to kind of both sides of it so yeah I think Tracy will be there too so that's great let see if I can get well thank you guys thank you thank you all right anything else Susan yeah or do we have to do a a roll call to the meeting dates and and the minutes I we didn't do that no no you need a just a roll or do you need a motion I vote we approve the uh the base okay I'll second that because um oh yeah you have right and some of the dates are the ones that are cleared out because of our conflicts right okay all yeah so thank you for reminding us yes second that uh Mr P yes Mr Anderson yes Mr schutter yes Mrs Bora yes Mr Smith yes and Mrs yes all good minutes I we already approved that all right take for a vote okay Mr yes Mr Anderson it said wasn't oh right you came in at 74 I just Happ to look Mr Anderson at 745 it should flared Out Mr SL yes m still yeah yes okay yeah oh no you didn't need me properly right well weren there so oh right I what am I saying sorry yeah correct okay and there were um just before we close I I was left with a copy of uh June 1st 2023 Department of the Army Corps of Engineers letter to uh councilman Rodriguez um of information concerning Waterfront development not really sure you do you know why I really don't to be honest and now wasn't available she had just given it to me and yeah where would that be I think it's spray BR another spray ground that's that was my original thought the end uh but it's not it's not limited to that it's just a general so maybe it's just putting us on notice of the fact that you know since we have jurisdiction over that spray well we call it the spray gra not I don't know yeah you don't know but it's not reflective of anything and again it goes back to June 1st so that's the park at the end of by the Yeah Works Green Acres yeah I imagine that's what was for that's why he's giving to me that it's not specifically related to that okay and then uh preservation New Jersey is an organization looks like we just got an application We join looks good can't hurt and I'll report back once we get whatever we get from that application motion to [Music] close yes yes Mr yes yes easy and quick so I just do you know the overman's the over