planning board this is a regular meeting of the Fair Haven planning board adequate notice of this meeting has been given pursuant to the provisions of the open public meetings act at the time of the board reorganization in January this past year the board adopted its regular meeting schedule for the year notice of the schedule was sent to and published in the AZ Park Press on January 6 2024 and the two River times on February 1st 2024 that notice was also posted on the bulletin board in Burl Hall and is remaining continuous posted there as required by the statute a copy of the notice is and has been available to the public and is on file in the office of the BR a copy of the notice has also been sent to such members of the public as at as have requested such information in accordance with the statute adequate notice having been given the board secretary is directed to include this statement in the minutes of its meeting uh so we'll have a roll call Mr Bon here here M Scot Mr n here Mr here Mr here Mr Anderson Mr V Mr Bailey Mr here let's uh open S I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the repblic for stands Nation God indivisible and justice for all hey Mike so um we have no uh no old business uh nor uh any new business and so we'll start with the administrative items which uh is the approval of the meeting of I'm sorry approval of the the regular meeting minutes for May 21st uh those meetings were distributed prior to the meeting uh I'd like to just call out if anyone has any comments before we move to uh those minutes okay I'll move uh to approve the to approve the the May 21st 2024 regular meeting minutes so Mr B uh um abstain this yes Mr n yes Mr P yes Mr B yes Mr NC yes yes okay the next is uh a review of B Bor boy not doing good tonight burrow ordinance uh uh ordinance of the Council of the burough of Fair Haven in the county of Monmouth amending Chapter 30 land use and development regulation of the buroughs revised General ordinance to comply with newly updated New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection storm water management RS and so um you know this is a um this is an ordinance that um is due uh to go up in front of council um on July 8th 2024 um I I didn't have any comments I I mean my sort of expertise in storm water management is somewhat limited um I I don't say that factiously or I it's kind of funny but it you know I mean we we we all watch the storm water video right like that's part of the training for uh for for the planning board and so look I I think you know in my limited understanding of of this you know I don't really have any comments to the the ordinates yeah give us my knowledge of storm water slightly above FR and I and I don't by by way of you know what I'm going to identify what I see as changes not that I know what the standards are not that I understand those things the overriding thing that happens with regard to these ordinances particularly storm water is that the njd pretty much tries to present a uniform storm water management ordinance and then you know strongly encourages the municipality to adopt those so that you have some uniform standings the overriding goal of the njd and PSI understand is to reduce pollutants in storm water manage storm water take current theories of how to manage storm Bo and you know things like recharge and and basically cify sances the changes that you're seeing the things that I observe in this particular ordinance most of it is already incorporated into your ordinance I'm seeing a change in some definitions by way of a public railroad or roadway or public transportation entity um there are some significant changes and and again I think probably my understanding in speaking with different folks they always addressed this but it wasn't necessarily codified in regulation you know we're always trying to make sure that storm water is recharged well there's an exception to the recharge they don't want and they don't want a conflict of recharging storm water where that would be inconsistent with improved remedial plan specifically related to contaminated sites that makes sense I'm sure that I'm hoping that didn't happen in the past but now it's codified so that the folks understand those standards are there is also some language changes with regard storm water management that it's not only just for the 10year storm the 100e storm uh but it's also for the current standards but also what they believe were projected they are now saying in addition when you're doing your homework as to when you're designing things it's not only for for current but what we anticipate the projected are and they're giving now numbers as to how they anticipate projected to be um can I just stop for a second because I remember there was a really good presentation I can't remember where that's a big thing with the projected because if you're looking at a 100-year storm used to be from now 100 years back but now they're looking at what are the recent storms so then now they're using that as the projected and that makes a very major difference in so far as the runoff amounts that that's what I understanding yeah you know and again they're providing they've also just something as simple as updating the uh the website address that was located within the ordinance to make sure that that's current um revising some of the calculations um and then also you know some as I think we've probably witnessed this on on some of the changes in the in regular development regulations that we have you know somebody's got something in the pipeline some of the rules get changed then the applicant is teesing now I got to start from start one and say well what this Ord it's also does say if you're if give it some pipeline Effectiveness if you're already in the pipeline as of this date okay you can rely upon the old if you're on you know if you're not yet in the pipeline till this now you're going forward that's of the stuff in the middle you know s of do a case by case basis so that the applicant has how do you def find in the pipeline well what they've done is they've given you dates y so the application so an appli required by ordinance pursu to be submitted prior to July 8 so they give you a date a triggering event so I I think that's a I think that's helpful to someone who may be trying to develop a site who's been in the middle of developing it for say maybe two years that they suddenly don't have to start from scratch um again just by way of not necessarily to the ordinance but what our role is here we again have fairly limited jurisdiction with regard to these matters our role is set forth in the municipal land use law there there's also a mirrored ordinance if you will within our ordinances I don't have that citation but the municipal landage law is 40 col 55 B-26 anything that comes by way of a development regulation May modify or amend development regulation impact on any any development within municipality after a first reading it gets sent to hospital review We Act as the if you will the the planning uh legislative committee for the for the planning board but our role is not to approve the ordinance or disapprove the ordinance it's to take a look at the ordinance and say is this consistent with the master plan and our development regulations if it is consistent we report back to them that it is consistent if it is inconsistent we highlight where that is inconsistent that doesn't change whether or not that gets enacted in terms of what the municipality does if it is inconsistent municipality can modify based upon the perhaps recommendations that we make if not it just heightens the vote requirement instead of a simple majority it's going to be a height majority um in my review as I say you can see that the bulk the way in which this ordinance is structured only those things which are underlined are presently changing the existing ordinance I I think it is consistent with your master plan because we do worry about strong water we do run off even when we do a uh even a minor subdivision one of the standards we look to is does this change the run off in the base in which the property is developed so I think it's consistent with your master point but if there are any concerns uh outside of you know simply the strict interpretation I can you know usually what happens I I ask you from mission to writing to mayor council done as to what our conclusions are and we can share any concerns I'm done talking now sorry so maybe it broke your question is there anything in here that necesserily changes the burden of on an applicant in town forther residential or commercial development not that I can see I I I don't see any Shi I mean the applicant always has the the obligation to go forward and make sure that they do their calculations our engineer signs off follows these but it's same same process same testing it's you know it's not there not I mean I know it's again a very Pro question and I I wouldn't see that in here but I me clearly it's the same rules the most part and I'm just curious um I'm seeing this as a tweak adding some definitions and then you know making sure that people who are already starting the process been in the process don't necessarily get hurt I don't see much else happening here I mean obviously the calculations are changing based upon what they learn but yeah I don't see much else yeah it's hard I mean it's hard to see in the calculations like how much like I see like the 300 foot period Zone you know like what does that mean for it's beyond my can to tell you that that's where you really do need somebody who does what these calculations mean how they mean I guess there's a certain I I I hoping that our engineer is looking at these things and also making recommend mendations to M council with regard to these um hoping what the science is correct I could not tell you if it were or or not but you know sort of overall it's probably more conservative than it was or you know it's it's tightening the regulation rather than losing it I think so I think that's a fair characterization and then on top of that does fair havs master plan go even further relative to other towns if the D is you know seeking uniformity and we're like a you know next to a river you know do we does our master plan have an overlay to what I think they set the standard and unless they I mean if we want to do something different I think we we have an application process the NJB to do that but usually is what they're looking for is uniform that's what that by way of analogy the reason they have the residential site movement standards the parking stall is going to be this wide so that there so that if you're a developer you don't have to have specific knowledge and tailor make these things you can pretty much rely upon the standards from the DP know you're going to submit those things to the DP they're going to use the same kind of calculations and if our then ordinances are mirroring that it's kind of like a One-Stop shopping you don't have to go to D PE or something for wetlands and then find out we have a different calculation hopefully everything's going to line up and be done but to speak to Dave's question if we decided as a planning board that we would like something more restrictive we could that's mayor and Council exactly we could make that recommendation could make that recommendation um it couldn't be less restrictive in other words that that that would be what I was getting yeah so if we wanted to yeah and I I routinely see you know with applications with regards the only Board of adjustment you know are you looking at drywalls are you looking you know in this area you know where it get went in the municipal if we see a if we see a site plan I'm hoping that you know when our engineer takes look at these things there's going to be those recommendations and have that discussion because even with the standards you still know you don't know water collects at Smith water collects here water collects there start to do does anyone have any further comments I we just ask for prepare W Council yeah I think all moves to to prepare a recommendation to Mayor and Council that we have no no further comments on put that uh no this is our ministerial action that's recommendation so um so the third item uh under administrative items is is for us to draft the the video conferencing policy so we we talked about um I two meetings ago or last meeting that that we agreed that we would have a policy um and so it's come time to draft that policy to refresh everybody's memory we talked about having the ability for board members to um to be able to um zoom in or video conference in uh to to the meetings um there was debate about whether we should afford that same uh privilege to the public at large um I I I know I I I think some of the other boards do that or the council doeses it I I don't know for sure um so it would appear that we do as a burrow have the ability to do that um I so so I want to have that you know debate now or I I guess begin drafting confirm as the municipality that we could do that and we would have someone here to assist yes it would be me okay the way that um I understand they do it at the council meetings from Allison is that they they do set up so you set it up these are all set up as a webinar even this audio recording is set up as a webinar in zoom and it really is like a matter of you know selection boxes of whether or not it get creates a link for public access and and that and so on and so forth so you could set it up the same way that they do which would provide the link for you to dial in whether it's a member or the public the one thing I asked about was um how they would show documents you know anything of that nature and so the way that that's done is through a screen share where you basically just share the screen it could get I don't know how you did it during the pandemic because you obviously screen shre it's not ideal for showing plans no and this is where so maybe we should we should jump right in here right so so I and I'm sure there'll be some debate about this right and we should talk about it is is I would think that okay so we have a policy um we're going to have a policy we voted on that and approve that we would have a policy now I would submit that that policy should be fairly Limited and so that that if if you know a board member I I I believe that when we're hearing applications we should make every attempt to be here in person and as James so eloquently said we trying to solve a problem we don't have because we only really got into trouble once and that was in March right where where some people couldn't be here uh and so um we still have a COR but but my my But but so so so I we're trying to solve a problem we don't have as a board right right which and so but I would like to make the the zoom uh ability available to to a board member not more than twice in a year um and I would argue that that can't count towards Quorum um and and and so but that person can you know question ask questions participate in the meeting and and sort of you know be there to provide guidance and and some other and and help you know ask questions but not not vote that was my next question so if they not part of the Quorum then that would mean they could vote there right a comparison with the council meetings they explain that they um if the council member dials in they do count towards the quum but they cannot participate in the executive session question is there legalities between having so part you're part of forum and I I won't speak to our counsil doesn't it's not my not my view to do that a meeting you know the executive session is part of your meeting period it's just a me it's a portion of the meeting that the public is not invited to participate in where I have seen it handled in other municipalities not necessarily uh planning boards planning boards present some unique problems but I have done this with school boards what they simply do is if someone is going to be sharing you simply have a separate dialogue that goes to that member and then when when you're you know when you're off or you're into another room we another set up there and they're simply calling in and they're on speaker there and they participate I will tell you that the that the documents that I drafted for you were simply designed to allow for a board member to participate in remote it wasn't it wasn't all-encompassing into the public to participate that's yeah that that means you can still do that but what you're going to find is if you're going to allow someone to do that and go back to for those of all of us who been through the pandemic if we require that the documents that are submitted you know hopefully they're submitted well in advance we then have you know you upload those you do then have the screen share to see those things it's never the case though yeah the documents and this stuff don't get submitted far Advance there'll be some logistical problems when someone comes in as they often do from I think we can overcome them you know by the way this is just page two and three but I did a colorized rendering this is an inperson an this is an inperson Endeavor right and so what what we're trying to do is is create a you know a safety valve for for certain members to help you know adjudicate the meetings that's how I I view it I'm happy to have a debate and and if if others have you know we can vote on on what to include or not to include in the final policy but I I just feel like this is an in-person Endeavor you're going to have plans set up you're going to have all kinds of things and to put the burden on Sheila or others in the administrative function in the town to worry about how to get plans and maps and everything sort of digitized so that somebody you know sitting on their couch can can then you know fire questions away Monday Morning Quarterback Style just doesn't really seem to ring bring true with me right like come to the meeting and and be heard stand up ask questions and and and the like that's yeah so a couple comments so I'm I'm generally in favor of allowing board members to zoom in I mean I agree I think there should be limitations on yeah voting a for we'll figure that out um even if it's permissible I do think it's it's kind of awkward and maybe even bad form to allow the board members to zoom in but not allow the public to zoom in I think the Optics of that like doesn't look you're not great um and then I understand the logistics issues around you know the detail plans and everything but we're not restricting public from coming to meeting in person if it's not important for them to see the plans in person right we're just giving them the option and they'll understand that the technology is limited in terms of what they can see see when they're when they're zooming in as opposed to sitting here and seeing the plans up in front so just a couple thoughts I'm actually going more your way on this show maybe we make a proposal and see how many people are in line because I suspect most of us in this last discussion were going towards R your insertion so if there's some you know limited way to you know limited way we not even doing it like you want to make a proposal and see how everybody wrotes well we all so we so so we voted to have a policy right so so that's been approved and and we're going to have uh the ability to video conference in um to these you know to these proceedings and so now we have to decide with with how just some fine tun yeah some some fine tuning to it so I maybe you can frame for us what we need let me try to try to frame it yeah the way in which it was done there were some there were some open questions you guys make those decisions I can make right recommendations I I I think from what I'm hearing if it is that look I really want to be I really want to be part of this life happens I can't physically be in two places and the board member says you know I I really want to be a part of this application you're providing an opportunity that opportunity has to mirror the experience that that board member has as best as it can as to what physically happens here so they have to be able to hear hear you be heard review what you're reviewing see those things I think we sort of knocked that out in pretty good fashion during the pandemic I think to extent that we did that we we got that done we didn't have any problems during the pandemic that I can recall the next step is I I I don't think it this is my personal opinion this is my not my legal opinion I don't think it's good Optics to have you know one two tops not at that meeting you may want to just reserve it on the first count first serve to one to one individual um and it has to be we have to know this in advance you know it's you know I'm assuming most trips are most of those types of things are pre-plan you can do that we can we can set how much notice the chair needs in coordination with our secretary because realized what we're doing is we're now going to put another layer of of tasking H secretary to make sure that now this is all uploaded we have more than one application two applications you know make sure that this is ready to go for the member who's going to then call in remotely so we need to know probably working with Sheila how much time do we need to know in advance that's number one how many people are we going to allow to do this at a meeting how many times per year would you permit a person to do this are they going to count as quum if they're going to count as quum um then I then I think you vote I mean I if they're not going to C for they can still participate but they wouldn't be I don't think you have them vote most of this stuff is there was in the past it was always a concern that we needed that person for a quum you know in that instance you wanted them to vote if you're going to participate and there's an executive session you're going to have to again if they're going to be part of the Forum my difficulty was saying no you can't participate in executive sessions what if something happens during your meeting where it's like okay we need legal counsel am I am I not providing that same legal counsel to the person who's participating in the Moe they're going to be they're going to be short change if we're going to do that I think even if it's just a separate call in them I mean in that instance what I've seen it work is like what we did we dialed in meeting and we got exective back I think if you can do that and that's not too great a burden because my recollection also and again I'm not doubting this Oliver's talents whatsoever you recall we had we had the secretary's taking a lot of notes doing a lot of things already if we had technical ledge we had a backup person I think Joe was our backup person but didn't we have a tech person he was our Tech online I don't know if it was back up or he was at every meeting with our board secretary yeah and in that instance if you're doing those things this also requires a a conversation with mayor and counsel because I don't think it's going to turn into big dollars but but if there may be if you're going to have a second person here that's going to be an additional expense for you it's here's what we want to do number of people how many times you know are you going to count SC are you're not going to count as SC draw on a blank I didn't so I think we should start with that in terms of of deciding right so so because I what what I I would think is we we need to decide how many people we would offer this to um at a meeting at a at a at a meeting and then whether and then the second vote will be whether to count that person to cor so it's already said and done the public is going to have access right on that I mean I guess we we should vote on that too right and I also I think the number of times somebody could yeah yeah we we'll go I mean we'll go right down are going are you going to do that for every meeting what do you mean Public Access that doesn't have anything to do with Public Access I mean I would think we would have to we would have to Avail it to every meeting you'd have to have Public Access access yeah and does that mean the public has access to video as well or i' I've seen hybrids but I've seen is a live stream if you will of your meeting and then you know a form if you wish to call in there's there's a call in procedure if you wanted to ask questions or participate in that fashion it wasn't necessarily done by it was you could witness everything right now you could have a live stream voice what we're doing but the person isn't necessarily participating to the same degree as if they were calling but if they wanted to call and what I've seen happen is then you know second you know everything from like okay we've got a waiting list for public participation when we get to the public session we'll call them in I see that as separate and apart from what we're talking about with regard to board member participating if you're going to live say live stream and allow for the public to call in I think that is there perk to live streaming versus zooming like we did during Co there's there's a different they had the raise hand button you got I think I think you could do that the difficulty is if you're can you see sufficiently without having everything uploaded as to what documents we're talking about it's one thing a lot of mun a lot of the boards it's just a viewing experience right it's just it's just it's you are their experience so television with the ability to to call in and ask a question you know almost like I you know dialing could we bate that we in in theory can we provide the live stream but not provide the opportunity for people to call in and ask questions sure I mean you can you can just you can just live stream so people can that's what Public Access television is right right you know really when you think about it that's what that's always you're just you're viewing you're having an opportunity to view from your home rather than have to you know go out to the public again is there is is there I'm back to solving a problem we don't have is is there a perk to the public to view us live stream if they can't participate or talk or do anything you know in that regard like you were saying just straight up live stream public viewing if if you wanted to be part of it when you show up then instead of just viewing it not mention you can view this you may see something from the comfort of your own home you know what like to be heard on them you know then I don't know what happens if you don't have that set up I think what I was talking about I guess I was Waring for our purposes is because so often we have visuals right so so often there's like something that somebody has to look at um but I do think it would be a good idea to have like the public be able to call in if we would have whatever documents that had been presented available for for the public to access does that make sense it does but what you add an additional layer responsibility so the basically what you're saying if every meeting you're going to allow the public to view to see it remote just like you know Public Access TV if you're also going to say you're going to have to we're going to upload the documents right right right that's an additional layer technical you might as well just do it via Zoom then they would see the same screen share that we're seeing exactly so but the difference is with the first policy of allowing board members to participate remotely we're not going through all those mations or everything if you're going to do it for every meeting from there on out you're adding that whole level even though you may have all your members here follow the distinction well I I think from the conversation we had last time right to be all voted on like Anna was saying you know it's it's pulling the you know the screen back and letting people see what goes on here so the way I got it from her and the way they got voted on last time was that everybody wanted the public to see every meeting oh yeah not not just a random hey somebody's not shown let's do it this meeting but not next meeting the only the only Nuance difference here than say between a mayor and councel where you can put on the web every agenda every document that you have and that's all self-generated by the municipality right there's a different new wants when you're having to have the applicants Council get that to us so that we can then get it that's that's what made doing remotely by planning board and zoning boards of adjustment different than every other public body I have I I I like people to be able to see everything that you do the difficulty is getting access to those documents when you're not self-generating them makes it a little more difficult and then the tech person would be the one flipping like so they switch what they were looking at on the screen we've got a raised hand from you know so and so okay you're going to have them probably in sort of a waiting room if that's going to happen bring them in you know and then they they'll ask their questions whatever those questions it all happens right here on screen I mean I would be monitoring this screen taking the minutes doing the roll and monitoring the hands and then El I would have to do a screen share for the documents for the documents Sheila are you able to show like to flip the camera and like show something on an ESO I think the way that it would work is it would go up on that um monitor okay is what I because as long as you could like like quote turn these on it would reflect this webinar screen and then if I needed to share a do I would have to kind of reduce this and share a document right which is very combersome you know again this conversation is twof folded right it's it's it's that the public need to see is there a need for it so on and so forth and then as side of a board member for us you got two things going on at once I don't I'd like to keep them separate as much as I could can we make it easier for a board member to participate remotely one of those standards if you're going then allow public to see your see your meetings that's that's another policy meant to be so so I understand your point like the Optics of of not allowing the public but yet allowing the board like like the first the first order is to show up right like be here like it's meant to be a safety valve if there's an emergency it's not meant to be hey I got two meetings I don't have to come to I can dial in I get two meetings a year I can dial in like it's meant to be a a a a just in case not a a mode of of normal use and so that's why I I agree the Optics are not good but I I sort of in my head I'm just like well it's still like the primary method of adjudication is to be here in person and participate in person view the evidence you know right you know what I'm saying on the board member side I agree you should have some policy that would allow folks to to zoom in on the board memb side and it doesn't the Optics of it by then not having something for the public totally get it right like I I how how if I may ask how how do you feel about that as a as a member of the public well the whole thing is uh during a council meeting it's very rarely that they show any kind of documents if we're interested in it we have something beforehand who want to see what the resolutions are and stuff I I happen to get sent everything but everybody else can just get go on the website so and and actually how did you handle it during the check during well it was on Zoom right it was everybody just dialed into it to a zoom yeah but but I don't recall documents being they were they were screen Shar documents were screen shared and yeah but but you we also didn't have you can only see do screen share it's this big you can't plan on an easel in a room well even sitting here I never see point I but like Zoom everybody had the ability to screen share like everybody's on laptop everybody has the same equal ability I I worry about the administrative burden that goes to the layer that we're adding to I'm kind of actually changing my mind in solving a problem we maybe really think about this one over the last month and um when you think about like the agenda and documents they are available on the website ahead of the meetings you know and if the public uh public cares they will come in they're interested enough they'll be here and I think and I think it's the docents are available we definitely have um often times like particularly zing on the 200 foot list once people rece documents are available to come in and physically review they can review not to up you don't have no no no but if somebody was interested they can request to come in and get the documents and review the documents meeting I guess do we if that's the case if the documents are available here some of to Walkin see do we they're always available here do we need they they have to be 10 days me we we understand the logistical issues around sharing the documents so do we even need to do that I mean is it sufficient if it is it sufficient when we provide notice that you know around live stream or Zoom the documents are here and sobody wants to view them ahead of time for the meeting is that sufficient or do we have you know yeah I mean in in a sense when we were doing these when everything was mandated remotely we had our notice for our meeting said I mean you can come in yeah and and when we didn't and we and when we didn't have that and people weren't allowed to come in we made an effort to have everything uploaded and then you could see it remot I don't know that you you do that now so we we did have a proposed policy right and so what we talked about last meeting was deciding on whether there will be a maximum of one to two board members approved to participate so we had to decide one or two right and then we had to decide does that person count towards the presence of a quorum and then uh and then whether or not the the board member shall not be permitted to participate in executive session which I I thought you said is probably good for not to have that person participate in executive session creates different problems number one number one if you're going to have an executive session and and you know say Doug kov is remote do I have a bunch of people in the back of the area so we have a proposed draft rule already and and so I think what Doug is saying is we you were intending to vote on you know these highlighted areas in the in the memo and so I maybe maybe we should decide whether to well hear me so so maybe we should decide as this group what to include in a draft proposal you can put the proposal together and next meeting we can actually formally vote on it that way we have something you know I there was there were all due respect to Anna Sean and and I think Betsy had some pretty strong feelings about how they wanted to do this as well and so I I kind of feel like you know can yeah I I know we we generated this can we get that back out to all the members um this is the one we came up with five years ago 2022 yes two years ago I went I went arar pull that memo can can I just make a comment so tonight there's people missing I know and we're creating a policy and then going out to the public and creating a whole lot of work for everybody for one person to be able to dial in I just I I'm struggling we have a policy right we voted on having a policy right so I I and I still feel strongly that we should have policy could still be Public Access version where where where there's noard right so we could just I think we're all kind of like not spinning but like Evol refining our Ops on this as we discuss it further right so I don't know I mean I think it really does create a lot of challenges and a lot of unknowns and and yeah I I I would encourage you to do one thing in this exercise keep the keep the issue separate right one is Public Access one is remote access for a board member the other is allowing public to remotely view what you're doing and how and how we do that's that's there's because we could we could we could we could seal everything from Council we could we could do everything well no no what I was going to say is we could figure out tonight and vote on how many you know how many board members and and we can determine the board end of it and then to take into account your very very valid point you know the Optics aren't great but then so then we could then have another sort of policy with regards to the public right and and come up with something that makes sense given what we have un unless I would encourage the board to do it in that fashion can I make a motion then to um allow public access to the meeting online access to the meeting including the ability to call in and ask a question so streaming not zoom yeah streaming not zoom so no administrative burden to Shield because as we said before the document are available 10 days before so if there was that much of an interest in viewing a particular document the members of the public could come to see that I'm thinking lots of times the comments from the public aren't necessarily based on a document it's Ty typically B typically on a visual document typically it's a concern they have about a broader issue access curb how close to the curb Etc so they may not need the visual document at that time I mean just to State the obvious they can always come into meeting in person right right if it's if it's their neighbor then they can show up here and be here physically but so let me just restate because I did talk a little bit much I'm sorry so again uh Public Access with the ability to ask a question every Mee what I'm saying would would you want that set up just because you could give it oppon I would uh you you could you could you could live stream your meeting this I this is what I've how I've seen it done before live stream your meeting get a Facebook page stream it you know whatever whatever technical ability you have people come on they log on they watch your meeting if and if in that same form you say if you have a question call in to hear then you're just going to have just like any any it's like like a switchboard how does council do it I think the way it works is when you set up the webinar you allow for the public access or you create a link for public access and then what you would do is you would embed that link in in the agenda and have it posted on the website prior to the meeting that um agenda does go out to certain members of the public that request it so it would go out to those um to those people as well and if they so then if you wanted to do it it would be on the website may I assist in your motion sure may I ask that we asked you to to find out how logistically mayor and council do their webinar meetings and try to mirror that and I think that then addresses both of that's the point yeah because I thought we already that's what my understanding was from from them is that they are available to the public they create the link when they set up the webinar um the the public has the ability to dial in and if they have to share any documents they are shared through the screen I think the I think in Council I think maybe can confirm this there's also a time limit um for public questions so things don't go I mean not not not an overall limit but a per per person time limit on questions is to keep them I think that it is they put that that was in recent three minutes per person they get three minutes per person no no different than your regular medeia you're just you're just doing it you know the right way I don't think over complicated and if if you do it in that fashion then we just have to make sure that we have the ability to set up a webinar for those meetings and how we're getting notice out to individuals that that's done we can certainly post it on our on same way we put out the agenda would be as a part of the agenda I think we should be consistent with the council so that way members of the public have the same they see every public step and step them so that because most of the folks are well this is how I did it for Council I'd like to be able to have them this is how we do it for these meetings right too I'd like to amend my motion to say I'd like to follow the method that the council uses to stream public meeting I will I will take the lead and shei to be sure we get that information inclusive excluding um documents screen sharing of documents of all the documents that go along with the meeting well mayor and Council don't really screen share documents do they other than the agenda again screen again from the comments I heard from boarders your members can come in it in agenda to say for you know come to you know throw a hall to review it would take documents to avoid any problems that someone would say well I can't see the documents so it would be excluding documents yeah be clear in saying that like documents are available in person 10 days meeting you know please have no expectation of of you know a screen sh Shar and if I could should do you know whether or not that that the information will mayor and Counsel on the webinar is there any additional notice that mayor and counsel do for that or is it simply put on the we on our website that you I believe it's I have to confirm but I believe it is as I was told it's the same way they you know 7 to 10 days same way we put out notice 7 to 10 days days the agenda gets posted in burrow gets sent to the to the public list gets noticed in paper that that that is where the link to the zo webinar here's the reason for my question as you know we read our open public meetings statement we don't re notice for every one of our meetings right but right now the notice that we rely upon was published back in January right which didn't have any information about linking to a webinar because we're just now looking at it and we didn't see to the Future I'm just wondering if mayor and counsel did anything different to either amend their not because we we could always send out an amended notice that from here on out you know for the balance of this year we're going to allow you to have webinar access and we could we could do another published notice in the newspaper and again that's that's that's one publication right so I want to make sure that we're however mayor and council did it that we do mirror those things I I we can find that we don't need to burden we'll find out we'll get back we'll get information to you we don't have to burden this city further we can go the step two step two is board members yes so say you all we've got the mo we've got a motion do we have a second on the public on the public to mirr to mirror what mayor and councel are doing with regard to and then we to make sure we cover the notice is there a second if there is no second it dies for I think second has an alternate can I second as an alternate yeah okay second yeah see here's the deal when we don't have enough members you're a member second take a r yes yes Mr yeah Mr P yes Mr [Music] no yes Mr yes Caris we'll get on that for for a draft policy for you to see that we make sure we cover noce isues those things okay issue two issue two is uh you want to have a remote participation policy for board members I thinking there what are what are the nuances is it one or so it's one or two members and so we should vote I I I'm going to motion um that that that' be one member how do how do we decide that well I first come first serve to Shield it I I think the information that we had well I think it has to go yeah I think it has to go through the chair chair has to know Ro going first serve to the chair add to the chair not to the she because she does the attendance right so she would okay she would like like be the first to resp I'm not gonna look I this is gonna sound the wrong way but I don't care like it's not I don't care but I don't right like if first come first serve right like if if somebody can't make it I I'm not going to adjudicate like who can't come like it's the first person to pull the lever can can use the the zoom the first person to send the emailing let let let me bore you more than I usually do uh the fair here was the proposed draft rule the Fair Haven planning board recognized a board member may be unable to attend a board meeting due to a medical condition where the the board member is prohibited from leaving their home due to a medical condition or due to a personal or business commitment wide open okay requiring the board member to be asked at the time of board meeting in order to assist these board members during these circumstances the planning board will permit the board member to participate in a board meeting through the use of an electronic device there will be a maximum of we motion at this point is one board member approve to participate in any board meeting using an electronic device I don't want to designate any platforms further each board member will be approved to participate in a board meeting through the use of electronic devices a maximum of I I put in two times a year that's that's something else we need to decide but I was in agreement in the event the board member as a medical condition that prohibits or attendance of the board meeting or a personal or business commitment that requires board member to be absent from the board member the board member must have their participation in a board meeting preapproved I put in by the planning chair we can put or designate prior to their anticipated absence board member must submit a written request to the chair indicating the date of the meeting and the reason for the anticipated absence the chair will approve such requests on a first come first sered [Music] basis I'm happy to do that but I I feel like it's better done by the board secretary yeah because it's just if I don't get yeah and here and then the caveat is in the event the chair approves a request the board secretary shall make arrangements to have appropriate electronic equipment available at the site of the board meeting that will permit the board member to listen and view uh all aspects of the public meeting as though the board member were physically present at the public board meeting to include but not limited to witness test amone presentation of evidence and public hearing board member comments and deliberations board member comments and presentations the board member participating by electronic equipment shall be provided either in advance of the meeting or electronically just prior to or during the meeting documentary evidence and supporting exhibits that are presented or delated upon blah blah blah the rest is there then the only other thing was quum partic what I had written was the board member I have proposed shall count towards the presence of the Forum and will have voting rights with participating in a board meeting through the use of electronic device the board member shall not be permitted to participate in the board's executive session through the use electronic device that was for other reasons it's it's difficult to control your envir well the member can control their environment I just use the executive sessions to the exclusion all of the people as I say the problem will occur is if something during a meeting were to happen where you needed counil and then that person's going receive that this is where we fell off where we where we died last did we have a problem how many I do I'm going to I'm going to again motion one and then hopefully we can vote on that so we got because I think we got to go sort of stepwise right we got to go through each element so the first so first first thing to decide is do we want before you make the motion Mo okay that's fine because then so you understand Robert rules award and why sure it's it's it's formally before you once we get a motion second then we deliver okay is there a mo motion for just one member there's a motion second a second second deliberations P monsters I don't see any which way you can only have one member I mean you're saying it's for medical or business or personal I mean you're going to have what two guys fighting somebody's going through chemo somebody got a car acci two broken legs and that there's in a wheelchair you can tell them hey you can come but you can't or hey you you emailed her before me so you're good but you're not I I mean again I don't see it happen right now you have four people out but we also but we also but we have four people missing you still have a quum and we're all still here right so why I'm just saying like just one person let's let's because it would have been nice maybe to have one more person here but you know so that's why I'm just saying just one that's my logic is is sort of you know you're I get exactly what you're saying right totally get it yeah but but I I I'm just saying like again there's all these people missing today we still have a quorum and it's you know and they want to be involved in this uh this with Dunkin Donuts like I was when I was on it for 8 billion months in a row you know if you want to be involved and you miss the meeting because you weren't here then you went listen to tap and read read the paperwork if you're interested and want to vote or you just didn't vote next time because you weren't part of that meet you know what I mean like I think there's a reason there's nine members of the board yes if if if we're worried about everybody be here every single time there'd be four of us and we'd rule you know what I mean and and you'd have a zoom when you need it and you'd be here in person when you need it and I just don't know how you can discriminate well discriminate I don't know that's the right word know choose choose and oh this guy beat me to it you know again it's there's two guys on the board going through chemo at the same time and they can't make it here what hey you made you you got there first you're in you're out exactly it's meant to be a safety I know we have a motion in front of us Doug I got a question question for you are the horses out of the barn on having a remote policy for the board like are like are we able to right now my understanding is you said you were going to draft a remote policy now you're getting into the nitty-gritty we're going to at least unless there's a change on the force you you can you can bring that back in I I would like to but you no the horses aren't you could decide not to have a policy or the the policy could be or a board member is not allowed to remote in that's our remote in policy and the public is and here's the follow off public and that was our policy we voted on we came up with right legally that's mean yeah you can do that because you're you've got a you've got a quum you've got a motion you've got a second well we already had a policy that said you couldn't video in right I mean that was the policy you can't video in that was the policy we changed the policy and said well we we didn't have any policy we we got to right to this point done we never had ay and then it was okay we're not going to have a policy but it's like we like I think we voted to dis so that we should discuss am policy right we got to the point where it's like I don't know is why I think we just got to keep it simple folks I mean this is again I think it is that simple though I think it is one person twice a year and if we got to let him be a quorum I'm willing to do that I would vote for that I don't like it but I would vote for it but but that's that's kind of I mean that's where I am I get it like we're I I I'm okay with the public I mean I think keep simple as you're a board member if this is in person meting show up yeah you're not here primary mode of of of this is show up be here be heard help that that's public side there's our I guess I guess to your point like the primary expectation is that we are in person it does not hurt us to to have like details written down to say in the event of the car accident in chemo people who still want to like this is not giving people license to a matter of fact I think I would actually go to two members but only once a year you know you know I think I think the gravity of of what we do here is is is important enough to get here for it and yeah that's you know I can I can't recall in my years on this like a single night when we didn't have a quum I can't um I've been out here forever we like you know even tonight tonight it came up you were an alternate however you you count tonight right it's it's it's like we have the fail safe in place to make this an inperson kind of mandate question if somebody misses a meeting for you know medical issues misses two meetings is that an automatic knockout or does that like I mean so if somebody is in that situation they can't make the meeting does that mean they are now off the planning board because oh no no no no then you're just going to be absent then you would just be absent and not and I would and but you do bring up very I would make this an annual I I used up my two I can't ever be absent ever again that's what your other issue is an entirely different issue that's not what we're voting on um it's you know one or one or two members however it's done I would I would probably put it around annually because I don't want yeah no calendar year reset do do you want them to I mean right now you've got a motion to Second for one should we vote Yes I think we should vote so we get moving that's your that's your motion second on on one member I'll take a roll a Mr G yes Mrs Bush no Mr n no Mr Val I'm sorry Mr pal no Mr R no Mr yes dead right no I like I like DA's idea now better make it more yes so where we end there four have have it no have it you don't have one does that mean we want two or motion is done so does anybody have a new motion for an alternative I made a friendly amendment to that motion too but I'm just saying oh that one's gone yeah we're not we're not going to be voting on one again this meeting so we have a motion for two anybody have a motion not to have a remote policy I'll make a motion to not have a remote policy second Mr a second motion second for for let me let me amend that let me amend that I'll make a motion that a remote policy is the remote policy we came up with for the public not for board members so we're still have a remote policy oh we already did that this this is now just this is two remote policies just for getting information you're you're streaming your meetings to the best of our ability just like mayor and counsel that was a direction I understood we were given got that then I'm back to not having remote policy for board I second Mr so how would I vote if I want a remote policy if no you vote no you vote no a no is a a no is is I want remote I know is I want remote Want My MTV yes yes Mr pal yes yes so just to clarify can I ask one question in big so if somebody is absent say there's two medical absences and then there's you know that doesn't they can't get to another meeting that does not then instantly launch in proceedings that you're launched on nothing to do I will expain that's all it has nothing to do with whether you're getting gemo I just want to make sure that you're just AB just just AB yeah that's why we have alternates that's why we have your yes yes okay you do not have a remote policy let me explain your con if you had there's a statute on the books that says if you have three consecutive unexcused unexcused absences there can be action taken to it's not automatic and they are unexcused which is and if I haven't done recently my apologize I sure don't also with our other membership you was this excused you know if this is an excused absence that is that does not matter you know someone getting chemo calling and saying look I need I can't make it right there this is an excused absence for me the board would write that down as an excused absence the the idea be the sort of like the three and out as to whether or not you're there was you know what's happening with this m we don't know right no contact they don't show every month you get rid of them going back to we need our members here yeah you know if there's some if they are excused absence it doesn't fall into that c okay thank you good point Thank okay so um the the last item uh under the administrative items for today uh and I I think this is going to be probably a multi meeting Endeavor right and so what what I wanted to do uh what we wanted to do have have a a review of The Fair Haven Master Plan versioning re-examination history and future statutory requirements right so you know it came to our attention that um the the master plan has to be reexamined um every every 10 years and so you know is it early is it is it not I thought it was a good idea that we address a timeline and we talk about a timeline we talk about what this process should ultimately look like because it's quite frankly taking us three meetings to decide on a video I can only imagine what it's going to take us to decide on on you know how we're going to go about you know sort of you know undertaking this reexamination which which I think is going to be something that draws a significant amount of attention from the public right and and you know we've had a number of different um debates and discussion in here within applications where where members of the of of our board have have brought up some some really you know material significant and important issues with regards to the Bur and so you you know the master plan is the responsibility of this board and so I I think it's important for us to get ahead of of what we're going to have to do and my and and again I I want to hear from everybody right like my intent or what I Envision the next like this meeting and the next probably the next meeting to be is not so much a discussion of those issues but how are we going to go about this process right we we it is a little early right we've got until August 2026 but if you look at the master plan there's 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 eight n almost 10 elements of the master plan itself and then there's if you read Doug's memo that that he wrote there are all these now statutory requirements that that belong as part of the master plan um you know electric vehicle charging um climate change there's a there's a whole host of topics that that need to be put into these Master plans and I wanted to discuss or what I thought we could discuss was how are we going to address this how are we going to undertake this process over the next year and a half um and and what are the steps going to be I I have some ideas that that I've written down in notes that I'd like to talk to you about I I think you know the the we have a public hearing on August 24th 2026 is I guess the deadline for the hearing right but everything would have to be done by that point right like when you get to that be your adoption right when you get to that meeting it's got to all be done and there can't be any sort of debate or or sort of you know people from the public that haven't had a chance to speak like you can't have somebody show up at that meeting I don't want this that it's too late at that point right and so what we want to have is some kind of iterative process that starts I I would imagine pretty soon um and and over the course of 2025 the the the reexamination report gets drafted and all the ideas get Incorporated and then 20 the the most of 2026 becomes about the you know sort of getting it into the plan in a in a legal fashion right but all the debate with the public and engagement with the public happens next year and so I felt like you know we needed to get ahead of this and have a a plan for how we were going to you know how are we going to attack this and so it's a it's a I I'll just I'll be quiet and let everybody else kind of talk ask a question because I'm new the adoption of the updates is this purely a function of the planning board or is it the mayor and Council this you are going to coordinate mayor and Council because I mean to be crass about they're the funding tools you you are you are joined at the hip with mayor and Council and that's why I say if you're if you're planning this you you are going to need the assistance of a plan that is going to you know dedicate dedicate resources based upon what you want to accomplish and so it is it is our function to do the reexamination that's one part of it the other is the Master Plan update let me explain usually you coordinate those otherwise it's two separate hearings side right if your master plan reexamination which has to be done you know every 10 years re-examine the master plan if you didn't do anything more you didn't update your master plan what you'd have is your master plan would be out of whack with what we said it should happen so what you're usually doing is here's our recommendations here's how the master plan should be modified one hearing two in a sense two separate two separate functions doing the re-examination and making recommendations for the Master Plan update and then once that's all appr then you know the scribes the the Nerds of the world so they write in the master plan they cross things out they make it they put you okay now our master plan is consistent with our reexamination and then our ordinances going forward should reflect what we wanted to see change when we when we say we want to see you take a look our old problems here's what we wanted to address well sometime during our next 10 years we address those maybe you check it off maybe say we still need to do this or we need to tighten our ordinances it's it's our role to do that but our funding source to have if you take a look at your last re examination report you're going to see you know there there was a planner on board that plan planner went down and said okay here's what you need to have update your things here's what last year's last time's gold work here's how you have either met theirs or haven't we've already done some updates to our master plan and and as soon as I tell you you're going see yeah I guess we did our affordable housing that was part of when we got the settlement part of what we did was to amend our master plan to make sure that those things were now in there so unlike some other municipali maybe don't have that that aspect of it was already done master plan reexamination minimum 10 years you can periodically do other elements if you want to so it's not all at once but answer your question we're going to be working with mayor and counsel as to you know bringing on a planner we want to tell them i' like to get a planner I said last time it was it was Mike su's group CCH it's not the same planner we have for the plan board we have two planners we have the planner I I think which is CCH and then we have um higher gr for affordable housing right I believe that's right but CCH was the person who who did the best you know that I I imagine they might have a step up doing things and that but again that's your decision um well they are our planner right so so they involved they're going to have to be invol like like we wouldn't put put out the reexamination for bid we have to have a planner at all times and so I wouldn't recommend that you do it but you're again you're going to have to that wasn't I don't know that that was in the retainer right would be something separate I believe yeah fair enough I think you're going to have to talk to them you're going to want to hear what they what they think we need to do and the ordinance changes a completely different exercise that's correct that happens that happens in that next 10 year cycle so that's yeah that's the governing body's responsibility is to ordinances that comply with or are are aligned with the m part of what the other guys that are not here tonight brought up in regards to the downtown district you know being 10t off the road and these exting buildings are further back they have lots in the back these have lots in the fronts and so on so forth you know putting that in the master plan is again this is like the summary the master plan is like a summary of what we're doing you know what I mean you're gonna have to recommend an ordinance change to Council in order to get that to reflect what we just did here yeah or else or else at least the purpose of what they were concerned about is a waste of time you know I mean they were just going through a normal master plan thing has nothing to do with what they were talking you've seen it come together this evening in little micro there is there is no zoning and planning without a master plan and then as we flush things out when we do get a new development regulation like we you did this evening now that you've got the plan and you've got the zoning does this latest ordinance that we have with regard to storm water management is it consistent with the master plan right you're now we've got these little elements there now they come to fruition as we go forward down the line when we're trying to do our check offs we look at what our problems were did we resolve them have if they've not been resolved is it still a problem what ordinance Provisions do we need to put in there this is the the master plan is the skelet flush it out in the next 10 years it done it can go either way I mean you have you have the master plan doesn't agree with and you could change a master plan to agree with ordinance for person yeah little harder to to do it that it's more you're right right the town could all agree on these 10 things and the m f that and be during a reexamination adjust a Mally I'm wondering if the first order of is is to contact our existing planner and ask them kind of step by step what we should do because here I'm wondering in the 2016 master plan there were surveys of the town's people Etc so will we be doing that again the scope of right so so what I was hoping we would do over the next two meetings is to come up this is our process to drive right we're we're the board we should drive this process with with significant oversight and input from legal and and the planner right like so like because we're all volunteers right we don't I'm not a land use expert none of us really are except the and so you you you know like I I but it's our process I I think it's our process to drive right and so I what I what I don't think any of us want is for this to become a a sort of a perfunctory you know check the box kind of exercise that's run by the planners and and and and legal I I think I know some of the people that aren in here have a more expansive view of of kind of what they want to do and ideas and things that need to be incorporated in in the master plan um and and so I I think it's our responsibility to drive this process with guidance from people that do this for a living right and if you brought if you brought if your planner were here not say okay what's this going to cost how long is this going to take their their question or their response back to you it's not legal question it's it's do you like your master plan yeah so what do what do you want to do that that's why I I you know we dug and I spoke about having the planners here and I thought it was premature to have the planner come obviously to this cly premature probably for the next meeting and so what what I was hoping that we could do is and I jotted some notes down about how I I think a really skeleton you you know 10,000 fet above process would work and then we should start to put some meat on the bones in the you know through the course of this meeting and the next meeting and then have somebody look at that and decide if we're ready then to have the planners come and and you know then fully flesh out a process that we can then kick off does that again I'm not the expert here that this is kind of how I'm thinking of it usually step one from what I see is you take a look at your last reexamination report what were the problems what what did we identify in our last reexamination report were things that we needed to address I'm not saying that there aren't new problems right but what were the old problems did we address those if you haven't addressed those are they still of importance to us today you know we will we will carry them forward then you get to okay what are the new problems and some of the new problems will be driven by your data as your population Chang has the has the demographic of your pocket this is where you'll get in where a planner will come in and say you know your pocket you you I am if I am losing population you know or if I'm gaining population that impacts on you know what are our housing needs what are our parking needs if I am if if my demographic is changing to be a a younger population what do we think a younger population that doesn't mean to the exclusion of our senior what what do our seniors want do they want you know are there things that we would do by way of I'm not even talk about a commercial problem with parking I'm we have resources you've done a lot of things you have you know bike you have bike Lanes Things Incorporated see you on top of parks and those things are they adequate since the last time reexamination you know you you know you changed your Police Headquarters I imagine there's probably something like that in the examination exam was probably something about your affordable housing obligation I'm not saying it's checked and done but we've made some movements towards there the reach out to those groups to the public is what do you want to see and that's where you get into okay to care of some of the old some of the old was still a problem what are some of the new things and then you get into you we like to see things set back but that's going to be a study from your planner by way of saying okay something as simple as your block composition you know where your large lots are where your large blocks are you know that's how you sort of why the houses there carry different things is that working is your infill working and I've heard sort of the Mantra since I think here like we're not necessarily interested in wholesale Redevelopment but we really would like to see infill development and if that infi development is going to be there we'd like it to be consistent with the character the res neighborhoods look at the did we finish it and then what else do we need to do and what does our master plan need to bring it up to date with regard to legislation shut that's a good framewor is that is the previous review On's there's another I I I would encourage you to to to review it not to commit it to memory but you're going to see they're going to have gone back couple of re exams this is a problem this is problem I have looked at reexamination reports in certain municipalities where it's still you know it's still a problem after three three reexaminations if you're at a seashore town uh parking but when is parking a problem summer you know summer not so much but now is it a bigger problem because people are now working remotely those destinations were used to be just destination in the summer that's now year round that's where people living near year round now you know so now that changes your parking it changes your circulation times and where it used to just be a problem you know after the maybe after this was never a problem at beginning of the shoulder Seasons or after the should it's now a full-time problem and they have to come to how we can address it and you guys know what your problems are now I mean on your holiday weekends do you go through your town and car parking spaces like like I do in some the hosties I work at is that a single parking space available is that an issue and I would divide it what are the issues if any with your residential what are the issues with your commercial uh what things I don't mean to simplify what things do you like about your town where would you like to see those mirrored um maybe I'm jumping out order here but your memo in regards to I just highlighted no no no no I get it but you know whatever Canabis legislation you know you had all these rules you had to do whatever we put an ordinance in saying you cannot have Canabis operations here so we're we're Square there y but the stuff you put up here has to be a part of the master plan now is that that these are I'm saying these are these are changes in legislation that you might want to okay be aware I read it as it had to be well and and the reason I'm asking is is I get this electrical V Supply and make up ready parking spaces and all the requirements and 15% and this and that and you know you can have a new president here in X number months and the whole vehicle mandate and all that's going to go to the Wayside I got you here's what no it may very very well here's here's what I'm saying there is there should not be any ordinances unless they're reflected in your master plan to the extent that you now get a bonus in your parking if you got an electronic vehicle station is that reflected in your ordinances if it isn't reflected in your is because it wasn't reflected in your minister plan that's that's going to be that's statutory that you're going to do that you get that bonus again you should at least address that because it should then guide what our ordinances are going to be down the line right but this was so this is the state law does that mean we have to that means that means it's coming in now and people are getting those bonuses I don't know if it is on on your books but but I'm saying do we have to have this inter like I don't think you have to have that in your master plan but you should address it so that it's at least recognized so that when someone says this this is my special reasons this I'm I'm providing electronic Fields I get a parking bonus or I'm going to try to tie that into special you don't have to I just wouldn't want to make it mandatory you know no I I'm not making it man these are things like Mike talks about right you know putting this burden on these people trying to build stuff or do stuff around here and all of a sudden you're gonna say hey 15% of your spots have to be a vehicle charging stations this was more or less here are some things that have changed since your last we and if it if like you said not an issue for us y this okay I know this this if if we already have it revised RSI standards if we already did it fine check on we're done I didn't know any this was law has to be added to our law no so okay so as as I read through all this right like I thought that you know this we'd have to organize groups right and I thought those groups would mirror the elements of the master plan right or at least somebody on the board would have to head up you know or at least lead the development of each of the sections of the of the master plan right and then we would start the process with a survey right so we would go out into the community I think there's a survey on the website that was used in the last time and so we we would we would have that s that that would be the start right and we do that as soon as possible and get that survey out there right and then we get that data that comes back from the survey and then can organize the planning board around the survey results right but also I know members of the board have ideas and um things that they believe should be addressed and so you know there's the recycling element there's the land use element housing uh circulation facilities utilities historic preservation which was new uh wck and conservation which I think was also new recreation conservation which was also new as as of the last reexamination and so somebody on the board would have to head up each of those elements and maybe there's elements here that don't require much of anything right and so you could you leave those but you know and then it would be that board memb I I think responsibility to to then you know look at the data that's in the survey come up with the the three or four principles that needed to be added to or amended in the reexamination and then we'd have to lead sort of public hearings maybe not hearings is the wrong word but but public engagement on those ideas right and and um and then decide whether they get included into into yeah I think other Stu that that I would add there maybe it's already assumed but as you're Gathering your data and things like this you're working how do we where do we make these changes in the master plan it seems like our element we that would have to be a planner lawyer sort of that that's where we would the lawyer other than walking through your process I I I really don't have that much of a role other than making sure keeping on your timelines making sure the notice go off of public hearings because in terms of I mean it's a master plan it's what do you want your community to look for you don't want a lawyer telling you what your community should look like no no fair I meant for well down the line the ordinances are probably going to be drafted byoun it be our recommendation to then they draft exactly and then we'll take a look and make sure they cons and it comes back to us and we make sure the resolution I'm sorry just the the order make sure any s the proposed order is survey survey is a is a would be a broad survey right the one that's on the website now that they use for the last one is pretty broad right it covers a whole host of of topics okay and then and then we put a draft together then we so so we get that survey back right and and then we'd say okay all the different suggestions that were made in the survey we would assign to different elements of the master plan and then each of the board members would have to take an element of the master plan and and Drive what changes are necessary needed would have to vet those those changes with the public uh and the planner and then you you know come back and and make change you know then it gets yes my only comment is I mean the the survey obviously depending on how the survey is drafted it could be prescriptive right in terms of what type of feedback we're going to be getting from the public at that right it's it's going to it's going to tell us a lot also also depending on how it's drafted it may not tell us enough also depending on how the questions are drafted tell you what you wanted to tell you exactly so so I guess we should consider I mean we can consider certainly doing a survey but just consider whether or not before we start drafting we also make it a public hearing or two well we're gonna even before we start drafting so we don't end up going path that we have to end up making a U-turn or survey results you know and then first kind of you know yeah I don't wasting time no no I hear this is why we got to have a discussion on what the process should look like because I think that's a great idea actually where you you know we we we take the survey and then we we we we have a a meeting a public meeting on here are the survey results here's what the results told us you know and we're going to you know we're going to design a a a a reexamination process around these suggestions and add and get additional feedback in that at that hearing yeah yeah process absolutely to your point like the survey is is like some you know multiple choice thing people you know it's like without like the subjective you know ability to kind of say well have you thought about you didn't ask about this but and also when you have the public together you know they're feeding off of each other a little bit so it may create ideas that individually folks may not have fault of including including ourselves I think before the next meeting could we all have copies of the questions sent so we could look at on the website they're on the website so um sometimes I find websites hard to navigate so is it at a quick place that we just click yeah if you go um if you go to question you go to I forget I find it and just you L is that survey that was developed by the planner or by the planning board done that origin is that because it says here 35 questions is that the original 35 questions that were developed from the previous one I mean it was there's also the restaurant survey done in between that was pretty comprehensive Beyond just restaurant issues which is also has you know I think some good information and has some editorial commentary a lot of editorial commentary actually I think only you were able to see that though I don't know if the public was able to see that so yeah Sheila if you could app yeah it'd be great but what again just just uh backing up or or rising up zooming out zooming out thank you so the the uh so the um the the public hearing to to sort of approve it has to be done by August 24th 2026 right and so I I I think June 2026 is when you would need to have the final draft and then I didn't now this is not what's in in his in Doug's memo but I was arguing in my head that we would have to be kind of done by January of 2026 I would think to then have all the sort of like you know MH yeah depends on how I said depends on how big is yeah because you would need the rest of you need that time just to finalize everything like like like I'm not I don't know what but but you would need that I mean just know getting de you get to a certain point and then there's that last mile takes forever we do even August 2025 one year before the the revision is due the reexamination is due we could have like we could try to do all this like we're starting in the August meeting of 2024 right with the real meet on the bone then we give us a full year August 25 and then the full year following so give us the extra three months four months you know as opposed to you know compressing in for an organization meeting and things like that so right could could we schedule then we'll say we'll finalize the questions that would go at the survey questions by the August meeting I that's that's because I think we need the planners to help us that question C CM what's the planner C CCH excuse me hard roll my head um do you think we ask CCH to set a timeline for US based on their experience in doing this um well first of all are we G to examine using some of the other than CCH dou you mentioned that they're not this is not part of their I I don't know I don't know so I mean I guess there's a question because we do use whoever uses a planner has done this does this all the time and maybe they have off the shelf they can say yeah my like I said before yeah I I I was kind of coming at it from from the fact that we have like we should drive this as a as a board I I thought we would get to a point where we had some agreement on an like a very high level timeline and then bring the planners in and say here's what we were thinking can you help us put some meat on the bones here in terms of what needs to be done how it should be done maybe how long that usually takes and have them kind of then maybe fill in the blanks for us a little bit I again I'm not like yeah I'm not the expert here but that's for idiots that they just be like here's your package start filling in the blanks here's your here's your here's your Gant chart to do and when because I like David's comment about you know having it one year before I love goals like that where you know you've got your you've got your your twin all set up and ready to go your analog ready to go way out and I wonder so it got me to thinking like I wonder what best practices are which you know SP enough yeah maybe so I my experience is until they understand how big a task giving them it's going to be difficult for them I I reached out to CCH and said you know this isn't going to be seen on a bill by me I don't need to see it on a bill for the client either how long it's like the best I can do right now is walk you know walk you back from your due date as to when you should see final product and then I don't know how long you going to put your surveys out for is it is it two weeks is it a week changes how many other things need to get done and does it really is it are there significant changes to each element I don't think there's going to be significant changes to your resource inventory I think we just did that not too long ago some things won't be that heavy lifting until you see what that task is you're really dealing with a little bit of an mown so going to go back with Fred's recommendation which is you know break it down by element you know as one is sort of the major category that's those that's those that's where the thought goes right there's a process for addressing those elements as a whole within you know the overall plan with those elements and how much we want to crack them open and and look at them is going to be the big issue so yeah yeah um so maybe we do some back you know reversing a little bit maybe we sit down and have a white boarding session with each element and talk about you know in the room who's got you we got to do that in view of the public right Doug I mean I think that's when if you're going to have if you're going to have a full quum yeah I me there's no reason why I mean I wanted sort of the the the sort of discussion of the process how the process was going to go to happen in front of the public I I just think that that's how it should be right like I I don't I mean unless anyone has I don't want to have executive sessions or outside meetings where we're sort of determining yeah I don't know that any of those topics would fit with an executive yeah but the the survey come up with survey questions yeah we're not that public well I think the the planners would do that for us like they would design the survey because they've probably done it many times before I think that's where we have to start because I don't think we I think part of our purpose is to represent the town so I think we first need to find out what are some things that the town would like to see and then we take that and then we can start adding our own expertise but really driven by what the town sees so I think we really need to start with the serving servy questions I guess and then get the survey out your started to review your exam I suest example last one in in your mind's eye is this still a problem in how do we yeah I I think so so the homework like said you cross some these things off the homework for the for the next meeting right is I think for everybody to read the reexamination read the survey and and then you you you know decide you know in general what progress we think has been made where we feel like there might be areas that are going to take longer be a heavier lift than than others um and I'll put together you know a very high level process um that that we can share and and then talk about like then then we'll have like how big of a of a lift by going through the reexamination report we'll see how big a lift it actually is um and and then be able to to like I said I was hoping by the end of the next meeting by the end end of the July meeting we'd be in a position where we can share this High Lev timeline with mayor and councel and then also think about you know look here's what we're thinking we want to bring the planner in now and and recognize that that may involve a cost of of bringing the planner into to review our timeline and and and get their you know get the planners the experts feedback on on the timeline and and what it what it will entail and then we can go from there but I I don't think you know I I think given that we're all volunteers I I think there is a little bit of urgency here I think we're I wouldn't say we're early I I feel like we might be kind of like this is the right time that's fair I think this take a lot longer this gonna take a lot yeah and we're going to want to have I think you know just judging by what I heard from from the group over the last two years we're going to want a lot of public engagement and and and you know the way the police station was done with all those open houses I thought was really you know quite well done um and and sort of the way you know I'm sure it wasn't you know a sure there were bumps along the way I didn't I didn't see all the how it was all done but I I know they did I just felt as a somebody that lives here I thought it was just really like there were all these meetings there was lots of Engagement there was lots of back and forth and you know I I would assume people felt hurt or I hope they felt hurt yeah I agree that's why I was saying I think the public hearings before we get too far down drafting makes sense in addition to the survey yeah yeah because we had surveys and public hearings for all the for that for the police department sa yeah okay so I think we got a I mean I I wanted to have an executive session um to address a couple of of matters but I I think we'll wait till we have a more full full board to do that okay sounds good okay um I will um public comment on on anything we talk about with regards to the the re-examination how does that sound to to you as a as a member of the public uh I would like public sessions I don't know whether you'll get them all out but you can give it shot I'm going to have to go home and take through and see which components I have and whether they're up to date or not thanks everyone a motion toj make a motion to adjourn second yeah somebody was to suggest white boarding publicly for the public [Laughter]