this is a regular meeting of the Fair Haven planning board adequate notice of this meeting has been given pursuant to the provisions of the open public meetings act at the time of the board reorganization in January of this past year the board adopted its regular meeting schedule for the year notice of the schedule was sent to and published in the Asbury Park Press on January 6 2024 and the two River times on February 1st 2024 that notice was also posted on the Bolton board in burough Hall and has remained continuously posted there as required by the statute copy of the notice is and has been available to the public and is on filed in the office of the B bro clerk a copy of the notice has also been sent to such members of the public as have requested such information in accordance with the statute adequate notice having been given the board secretary is directed to include the statement in the minutes of the meeting uh let's have a roll call Mr borderon M Bush here C here Mr n here Mr here Mr here s here uh Mr Anderson Mrs Anin here Mr Bailey here Mr here great okay let's start pledge aliance pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation indivisible andice so um we have a light schedule um there's a few things um we wanted to do administratively the first of which is is the minutes uh from the prior meeting and from the executive session uh and then I think we need to have a discussion on uh on use of Zoom um for for access to the meetings going forward um I I have uh the original memo which um our attorney prepared and there's two parts to the to the to the rule that we would have to uh conclude upon tonight and then we can submit it for draft and then you know decide when it when it would become effective and so we'll have that discussion and then um we from last week uh we were in executive session and um we addressed um the the letter to the board and then we uh we we started talking about other um other opportunities that that we might undertake as a board and so I want to have it was suggested that we have that discussion in in in the open rather than in executive session so uh we can talk about that uh we can talk about those initiatives and decide uh looking at the pipeline of applications for the remainder of the year what we have scheduled to uh to undertake and then how we might go about undertaking those um those ideas so why don't we start with the with the approval of the of the minutes from April 16 2024 uh I we had some back and forth over email about the contents of the minutes I know some changes were made to the intendance um so I I thinkig I feel good about where those minutes are now unless um anyone has any comments to make so uh I'll move to approve the minutes from the April 16th meeting second Mrs P yes Mrs yes Mr yes Mr n yes Mr yes Mr B yes and Mr yes okay so um with regards to the executive session meeting minutes um again I I didn't have any comments so uh if there's uh any um any comments or or Corrections that need to be made anybody uh please speak up otherwise I'll move to um to approve those executive session meeting minutes second Bush yes m c yes Mr Ro yes Mr n yes yes Mr Bailey yes and Mr yes so um so let's move into the discussion uh about providing Zoom access to planning board meetings going forward so uh this is a an issue that's that's been around for for quite some time and so we were meeting uh over Zoom during the pandemic we continued that practice for a little while in 2021 um and then we moved back to uh to in-person uh inperson meetings and so I think over the course that I've served we there's really only been a few times um you know obviously most recent the March meeting where where we've had trouble or could have had trouble you know making a quarum and and so where whereas if we had the ability for for board members to zoom in and be part of the meeting um it would would have alleviated some of that some of that strain that being said we've never had a problem making qu so um you know Doug um our attorney back in May 2022 put together um a memo examining uh you know certain of the cases uh and and certain of the the laws that um address um the the open public meetings act and then and then also requirements uh to be you know to be in person and so we came up with uh with a proposed draft rule uh and there are a couple of open items in the rule that we we never concluded upon and decided that um not sure why we decided not to go with with zoom I think it had something to do with um the availability of the technology or our ability uh to allow um public to allow members of the public to um to be able to uh to zoom in also um it's not ideal to to not have that right where you we we're offering members of the board the opportunity to come in Via Zoom but not we wouldn't be offering members of the public um the opportunity to to come in come in Via Zoom so I I thought a little bit about that and and thought that you know what we should do um or what I feel we should do we can obviously discuss is um you know we can for for purposes of a quorum you know the zoom uh you know the zoom uh the zoom opportunity would would not be allowed for that for that purpose right so the Quorum everybody had to be uh for purposes of a quorum be physically here and be able to cast to vote you have to be physically here so that you could see the evidence you could look at all of the um you know you can hear the testimony um and I just feel like that's a better construct um for for the board it's an in-person board people applicants come here in person um to uh to make their case and so we should um we should also be in person that being said in in the few instances where we were were going to be light on attendance I think that having the ability for certain board members to be able to zoom in if they're not able to come in person could help with questioning the applicants could help with the direction of the meeting could help with um you you know with guiding the meeting um a little better rather than um rather than not having that uh that opinion so I let's open up that discussion um to to the board it I'm not totally clear so if we agree to to have zoom as an option would that be open to the public also we to zoom in I I don't think so no I I don't I don't think we have that option unless we now we now do I don't know if we do that's I was asked I think we originally were thinking it was one way has that technology been perfected now where public can weigh in at Council meetings from Z no oh yes they can you go to the burrow and and um uh if they want to make a comment on agenda items they can do that via Zoom so it sounds like we could have public participation as well as does the Z board do that they do not yeah does anybody else do that en I believe they do but Council does use it see we would the only thing you can't do if uh a council member Zooms in is attend executive session they can't do that and it counts as attendance if someone's on Zoom like you you're present at a meeting yes I think that's one of the things we wanted to clarify right is does does Zoom attendance count for form does Zoom attendance count for voting does you know yeah so that in the in the proposed rule that we had looked at some time ago that was I I think also one the the the matters that was you know some some contention right like some people on the board thought that it should count towards a quorum others um like myself think no I I don't think it should count to a quorum I think Quorum should be present and forign people you should vote right you should vote in person but for example like the March meeting right would have been helpful if we had Zoom right I certainly would have been able to zoom in I could have asked questions I could have helped guide the meeting meeting um you know a little bit more so would have would have helped I think for the rest of the board if we had that um if if we had that option I think we should vote on it right I think we should as a board determine you know it's not just my opinion it's the boards right so what you know if we want to have it count towards a forum we should take a vote on that and then if it counts towards a forum and have that person be able to vote I'm fine with that I I you know I don't have any pride of and Doug doesn't have a problem with that no Doug Doug so so I like I said I spoke to Doug yesterday and he said that you know you should um you know you need to opine on that and and decide as to what as to how the rules going to be uh the rules going to be written so it's um so there's there's three three areas in the in the proposed rule right is how what's the maximum number of board members we would allow to attend via Zoom uh then would those people be able to count towards the presence of the quorum um meaning they'll be able to vote and then um would we allow participation in executive session through Zoom I don't think he can I'm not sure what the ruling is he's highlighted that and said that that's something we need to decide so I mean we can I think the answer is no to that because it cannot be priv my wife is s in the background and listen the whole time to ex fair enough right right so there's no way executive stat has to session at least for the council is has to be in person yeah so if someone's on Zoom they just drop off when we go into executive session I think it's a good tool to have you know if we you know if we can Avail ourselves at every you know tool in order to be you know to optimize who's sitting at the table and when and we I mean I think we're all committed to being here in person right it's worked over know for adding I mean think that the downside is if we get you know if we get to a point where everyone's like I'm going to zoom in right and I I don't think that's the character of this group no I agree I I don't I I think that um like like I said I I would go with um you know maximum of of two people or I don't even think you would need that rule as long as you say that you know that people that attend via Zoom wouldn't count towards a quorum right and so you know I I kind of feel strongly that but again we should take the vote right we should we should decide um you know what what the rules going what the rules is going to be if we say that um members on Zoom will count towards a quum and be able to vote then I think we do probably need to limit the number of people that can attend via Zoom right you can't just have nobody here do that so well write it into the rule you just say we talked about this last time saying yeah yeah saying somebody has a medical issue but who's say your medical issu is better than my medical issue what happens if a third guy gets a medical issue you right the rule says it's a it's approved on a first come first serve basis right that was one of the BS last time right but I also think look remember right for for very long period of time at least as long as I've served we've never had a qu Sho right so I feel like it you know it's you know we can talk about a number of like sort of you know scar here yeah right person board we need five alternates yeah yeah so are we voting Zoom vers no Zoom or are we voting that it's Zoom with well I think let's yeah I mean let's finish the you know what we need to discuss and then I construct of how many yeah of what we need to put through as that you have to have a quorum in person I mean I like that idea too yeah I mean I I think we all agree we want a policy right so maybe we should vote on that that we agree as a board that we should have a zoom you should allow for um you know use of uh of telepon called in here remote technology remote technology made it up I so I just my two sents and I've said in the past like when you know coming out of the pandemic when I was on shade tree commission it was critical that we had Zoom obviously during the pandemic but then afterwards when things relax and we allowed to be back in person my my commission still chose to be on Zoom because of the flexibility provided some of the younger parents on the street Tre commission where you know you may have one parent still in the city they want to still volunteer but there's no way they can leave their you know their their three-year-old and 5-year-old home alone but still participate and Chang so I found that remote access worked really well um under my uh under my rule of that particular committee but commission but you know obviously I think that decisions that are made here are um a little more a little more weight to the things that go on in this room and I think there's a lot more presentation that that that occurs and um so those things need to be factored in but I I I I kind of feel as if remote access could count toward quum that's just kind of my experience of um keeping a quum and keeping a healthy board committee commission whatever what have you um but I think you know that that's obviously one of the items that we should we should discuss I'm a no Zoom I think you need to be present in the room hear the people talk to the people see their face see the presentation um I also don't think you could I even know for myself right if you had me sitting here on this right now I'd be do working on my computer while watching this little ow on my screen or whatever it is right and you know you're making real decisions and big decisions and are you doing that with your three-year-old on your lap or running around room behind you I don't know you are you know nine person board you only need five I mean how many times have we had four how many times have we had five people out where we didn't have a quum never never it never occurred as as you and I been Noe yeah you know if you're at that case you can always reschedule mean it's it's not like me different meeting gets canceled all the time because the agend is light or whatever may happen so I don't see the me me personally fair enough I agree I'm not I think if it has to be in my opinion in person okay for Forum or for anything I don't think we should allow Zoom I just you see like there's expression there's emotion in the room it's hard to see it on on Zoom I think for yeah but I felt that way back even at the time I was against it I think you and I do that against it so that's what I was asking if there's a are we voting to have Z I think we should I mean given that there's there's conflicting opinion I think the first thing we should vote on is do we want to have a zoom policy or not and so I I'm I'm going to put for and then we can decide if that passes then we can decide what the what the rules of the road are if we have a if we have a policy can I ask soer ke so I think there I think there are two like buckets so one bucket is can members of the board zoom in for a meeting or not so quum no quum I think separate but can the public zoom in to the well that's the I mean that's if if we have that ability right so if we vote on it and say are we going to have zoom right are we going to have this technology um and use it then I would say yes right like if we say yes and and then go then are we GNA you know allow the public to do well there's one limiting factor and that is we can only have one person in the burrow use zoom at a time so I don't know if there is true pardon me that is true yes right so I don't know if there is another group or committee or commission that has requested or been historically using zoom on the third th third Tuesday of the March oh I see your point okay think would be like Rec I know DJ uses right but we meet the first Tuesday of the month or Tuesday no no oh meets the first Tuesday of the month so rarely you know depending on a holiday we might move it to the second Tuesday but if no one's actually using it we could yeah we yeah so yeah so my point is I mean Fair points logistically if it's feasible in terms of the public zooming in I'm definitely in favor of that I don't think there's any reason why the public shouldn't zoom in the council manages it like perfectly fine um so that's for me Al in terms of the members zooming in I agree members can zoom in but it shouldn't count toward supp for I think we should incentivize folks to be here in person I know we all are but just to make sure this this is a rule going forward so we want to make sure that we set it appropriately can I ask one more like part of the the dynamic is when there's a presentation and so whether it's the homeowner or the experts that that homeowner brings to the table would we extend that same privilege to that no I so this is what I I this is you know when I say or when I think about are we going to allow Zoom the way I think about it is we would allow the public right members of the of the town to to watch the meeting at home over zoom and we would allow one or two board members depending right the ability to zoom in and not count towards a quum that's how I would view it right I believe the same as everybody I I believe that it's an inperson thing you have to come present the application you have to look at the maps you have to be here you have to read the room all those things that we talked about that's how I would I would view it I I mean and again as you know we'll vote and decide but that's how I would I would do it right like I I would not H have people be able to vote via Zoom right when we discussed this last time do I remember incorrectly that when once we open that box of Zoom we couldn't put it away in that if someone wanted to object now you have an objector an obor's attorney on Zoom you legally had to allow that and that there are technological issues with doing that presentation from many different ways and I I thought Doug said when we talked about this it's got to be almost a year ago at this point that that is it may yeah the memo that there was like and I'm torn I mean I I I sort of agree that I think you know in me and in my business we do a ton of things on Zoom and I find it incredibly hard for me to focus the same way on Zoom hearing as I do in person and I think with um you know the gravity of some of the things that at some point we may address here you know I sort of agree that with 90 people if a quum is five we should be able to reach it and what I would be concerned about about you know sort of how it fans out and how you control not only the public but objectors and and people then looking to present because I remember there was and maybe I'm remembering incorrectly but I thought if we had a zoom policy then it had to be open and I I thought he said even to presentations that and maybe maybe I'm not remembering that you're not far off there was something with the presentation there was whether the public couldn't see the presentation but we could or vice the Pres remember and I don't remember what it was and I don't think I think this is a newb but but I don't think you we would not allow because the meeting is in person right like so the the the announcement for the meeting and the posting of the meeting is is that it's an in-person meeting and if you're prepare if you're if you're coming up in front of the board you come up here you you make your case and and you engage in discussion with the board and the public and that's just how it is like the Zoom thing I think is a con is a convenience to allow people to that want to watch from home to watch from home we would have to I I would assume add language to the notice which says look you can't like you're not a like you wouldn't be able to talk you wouldn't be able to to like participate in the meeting as a as a member of the public I guess you could talk you could still did last time you call them out pardon you have public comment on the agenda so if you have public comment on the agenda the public has the opportunity has the opportunity to comment yeah that's right presum but I I bet you could limit presentations to in person yeah I mean you would have to I mean you would you you can't have somebody that wants to do a subdivision or or any other action do it over zoom while we're sitting here in the in the room right like you have to come to the to the mountain you have to come here and make the presentation the way you normally would I don't know I just to me that just doesn't seem like it would be a problem I I feel like people know that this is an inperson thing we would deliberately say it and explicitly state it on the you know on the meeting um you know on the on the uh meeting announcement and the the agenda about time materials right like so materials ahead of every you know agenda are typically on you know available on the our website right so we could explicitly state that all materials need to be submitted in advance so that they're available online people could view them remotely but then do do people you know the introduction of new documents that often happens like on the Fly that would be hard for yeah that would be hard for either members or the members of the board or the public to again why I think it's should be limited right this should be a a a a tool that's used for for purposes of when when there's you know an emergency of come some kind or you're you're out like like I said I mean look you you know the the March meeting like I would have liked to ask some questions or at least help with sort of the the the guidance of the meeting and would have been able to do so I wouldn't have cared if I couldn't have voted we had a quorum but it would have been helpful to have other people on the you know on the obviously on on the board attend remotely just to clarify so when we are talking about opening the meeting up with a zoom access we can completely control that access it's not like an unfederated anybody can come in who's got the link anybody come link it's a matter of them being chosen to speak they're not able to just raise your hand allow we have to unmute them so it would be during the part portion where it's open to the public comment people would raise their hand and Sheila would moderate right so it's a webinar essentially and then um everybody's muted there there's no pictures and then if there is a public comment we would unmute them so that they could speak through I wonder what about the legalities of eight people talking and asking questions and drilling down on stuff they like or don't like and then when it comes to the end only five us voting well that was going to be my question you mean and they vote I just don't have again the legality of that on a planning board and how that works and you know right you know because if you want to even have a partake in voting for the next time you can view it on video what happened last week and read up on all this stuff you know but so you're in the room you hear everything you you ask questions maybe you maybe you steer the board one way or another way but in the end you're on the zoom so you don't vote so maybe that hurts that guy or maybe that helps that guy out you know I just don't think there's an like a moral issue in allowing people who are unfamiliar with the planning board who are curious about it who would like to see what goes on here the ability to actually see it I think that actually benefits Us in the long run because a lot of new people you know even people have lived here for a while maybe they're trying to get involved you know I think that being shroud in secrecy down here might actually hurt us so opening up to a public in a pretty controll sense is probably not the worst thing ever if you if you separate those things these this group should be in person I mean I don't think that you should have the ability to zoom in for a meeting and then you know be a part of that it should either be it could be pretty black and white you know it could be this is open to the public it's on the thing outside of B Hall here's the zoom link it's in the buzz you can join and get some information from it but our group can just be here I think that would make the most sense yeah that's kind of like how I'm starting to feel about it it's I'm looking for every reason to say yes to including the technology but just figuring out where to draw the line exactly and that's why I asked about the the people that actually present like whether it's the homeowner or their experts like would do we want to tell a homeowner who has like their their Quorum in a way right they have their their attorney and whoever they to make their presentation but let's say there's something special about their lot let's say there's something special about their situation and they want to bring another expert in and it is difficult for that person to come to the conversation physically is that a is that reasonable for us to allow them to bring that voice I don't think zoning board doesn't do that you have to be phys also there's there's a long lead time right in front appearing in front of this board right so I know everybody schedules and everything but you know if you're if you're a planner hired by the homeowner or the attorney hired by the that's your business right so you'll accomodate foro to be here and present in person so I'm not that concerned about this is going to come out the wrong way I'm not that concerned about the convenience of someone presenting in front of the board because you know they have a vested interest in making sure that their hor are here in front of us in person to hopefully get approval for whatever they're seeking to do well I think that helps us then craft the language that it's still an in-person meeting and the the technology gives us an inary ability to public it's an in-person meeting like I let's stress that from the from the getg go right it's an in-person meeting you must come here you must you must present your materials to the board the people that are going to be voting are going to be here but in cases where you know where for like again that March meeting like I I could have helped right like it it would have been helpful to have the ability to zoom in ask some questions even though I wouldn't be able to vote it would have been helpful I think or you know same for any number of other other you know circumstances where maybe it doesn't materially impact the the conduct of the board but I think it makes for a better you know um I don't know I think makes for a better shown too like if you know I'm not able to be here or or Dave's not able to be here I mean at least it shows that we're you know still but I think you I get clear on whether you are like a citizen at that point or if you are you know if you're offered the opportunity to speak during the open Forum or if you're actively engaged in these conversations because those well you're a member of the board so if we allow members of the board to attend via Zoom you're you're a of the board the public would State their name and their address so they actually have to test that they where they is it to make things well I mean this is why probably didn't pass two years ago went down these rol that that yeah which is fine for some reason I remember because I think right like I think in the event that there wasn't a there there wasn't a quarum if a quarum was able to be voted via Zoom like I could see the benefit to the board members being there my concern with allowing public and specifically public comment like I sort of feel like I'm also all for the more public to to understand this and to participate and to watch and to see but my concern would also be that you know people can get wordy for no real reasons and you know I I I sort of feel like it's important important enough for you to have comments and feelings about the application that's in front of you then it should be important enough for you to come here in person sure and so if the mean if if the goal is some combination of ease or emergency on the board and public awareness is there another means that we can do that with can they be televised can it be live on YouTube can it be live somewhere else so that it's not open for comment so that if someone does feel strongly enough whether in favor of or an objection to an application they do have to come down and they do have to verbalize those I mean I because I think um I I don't know and just a lot gets flushed out in the person you you know you rone better you oh I agree body language and so like if you're going to have any position for against an application I sort of feel like in In fairness to the applicant and and and also the board members you you should see those interactions in in in real life like agree that's that's why I'm saying you would you would have a you You' have the ability to zoom in you would not count towards a vote ask the audience so all a sudden you have 50 people that want to comment just because they can raise their hand and comment and from their C right and not to just and it matters to you get in your car drive here sit here paying half attention texting on the phone and doing the other things that I'm guilty of doing when I'm on Zoom no matter how hard I try to vot this there's can walk up here and talk for four minutes and we don't wouldn't actually you know it would be harder to actually contain them from stopping than if she were just then mute them on as well to come here they have to make and I just feel like when we're talking about you know the things that we address on this board it's important stuff as it relates to this town holistically long term and if it is that important to the town and the members thereof then it should be as important for them to and have those discussions in personating circumstances if we go back to March and if if let's say I was not in favor of that application I have no power right the only Power is this day is is when I can come speak I could write a letter ahead of time yeah and someone did that um but it's again for all that we're saying about the importance of being in person someone reading my letter having it submitted to the board is not as powerful as me being here if I can't be here and I'm that person's neighbor because I'm on a work trip or I'm wherever I am I have the power to change the the meeting yes so on the other hand of what you're saying I think that's what empowers someone in the neighborhood to feel like cool I can get my voice physically heard at the time and maybe I can submit a letter yeah it's managed by the council when they have you mean these people zoom in and it's m I hear what you're saying about you know 50 people online say something but it's managed the council um the I'm definitely in favor of Zoom for sure but I do think it has to be kind of all or nothing I don't think we can set a policy where members of the board can zoom in even if they don't count for quum but the public can zoom in so I kind of feel like it's either we have zoom that's accessible somehow for everybody or we just don't do Zoom at all because I think it's G to look really bad you know even if your vot doesn't count to allow any of us to zoom in can I pull three concepts together sure one is I actually think that if somebody's on they should be able to vote but it should be limited to two people as a check valve in the event of being short people I mean that's really you know we want to encourage the max inperson participation but we want to leave that that alternative available this happened once I remember you know in the middle of something it was a restaurant Boat where I was traveling and you know I got the call from Todd like hey this is like we're short people we need people here I was in Washington it was like you know I can drive right now the point was that doesn't often happen or almost never happens or never happens but you know similar to the you know two meetings ago when we're running up against something like that we do want the lever to pull but we don't want I don't think we want if we listen to the tone of the room we don't want this to become the norm so if we have it as something that can be used as a tool in the case that we're structurally short on the to this side of the table and also something that can include the public on that side of the table I think that achieves two things one it opens up you know opens up the form and two it limits the risk of runaway usage of Zoom it creates a couple of seats that are there on a first come basis I mean and I'm talking my own book because I have a terrible travel schedule so I'm like I'm probably more tuned to this um but you know the reality is even me I can plan my travel around the meeting schedule so it's just when we but if we're against that wall and we want you know we want 10 voting members here because it's a big issue we want everybody in the room two people can't make it having that tool available I think is very powerful but I do think using saying limiting it to you know two or whatever number we pick then governs the risk of abuse of the policy yeah there there the other um the other safety valve in the in the proposed rule was um you could only use it two times per year so a member could only zoom in twice per year and then once you've exhausted your two for the year you then you know either you were in person or you're absent right I I guess why is this even up as a conversation when we killed it in 2022 to something bring this up well I think we is do we feel like there's a need all of a sudden for this I mean look so we we talked about um you know that that we were left with with not um you know full participation a couple months ago and so this you know surfaced again as a as a topic of conversation I just yeah I'm as new to the board I was actually surprised that you can't the public I'm not talking about us I'm surprised the public can't zoom in I'm more focused on on that and like the transparency allowing people to see what's going on in in this with this board I think is I mean I I I guess I'm at the point where I don't see I don't see a reason for it you know it's it's not like we ran into a thing where we we we were short eight of the 12 months or we three times a year this Sil comes up and gets passed laws for like you know half a percent of the population and they're changing a rule for it like this happens once since I've been on the board for the last seven years or whatever I don't know why we're having the conversation fair enough that's and you know I think we are very transparent because anybody can walk through that door it's open to any any M of the community and you can watch it on YouTube after right you see the whole video after if you want to see it I just and again like I think the more people that see it and and understand what's going on I do think it's beneficial but I just I'm just an imperson guy generally speaking I understand your position about ease and and and um access in the event of travel schedules and I think even you know your position on a neighbor that may be affected by it that has an issue is tough um and all I would say to that is if I was The Neighbor Next Door and it was that big of an issue for me my travel schedule would change or youry no 100% I would work it out but but but um I understand it in certain cont but I also just don't think like at least for me there's not full participation when I'm on a zoom I just it it it doesn't work the same way for and that's personal but Mike mention something though like like there is an added level of discourse that comes with veronis and I think that even I don't know I'm I'm I'm kind of torn down with with with both kind of views um I think to your point the gravity of the planning board decisions is is important enough to be here in person but I think that um in my experience I think that you get just by default more participation if you give people promote access whether that's the board or the public or well both would be included be included Zoom so I don't know it's hard it's a Harden but like like when D is going on right which we were here for months and months and months and 4our meetings or whatever listen if you Haden to miss a meeting meeting you missed the meeting you went in burrow Hall you you read up on everything you signed off on it you watched the video and you were back to voting again the next meeting I mean so there's Avenues to and there's alternates and there's you can miss a meeting and everything's going to be fine well respectfully though Jim in that moment that I was one of the guys one of the people that came to the FL with Duncan and I showed up late in the thing and I raised my hand and I had what I thought was really smart comment of course you know Todd was you know on one hand shot me down and the other came around the back and said well you're you know welcome to the party now you got to step up and help um what I you know what I'm focused on on the public side is how do we get more people in the room right like because I think people do need to be aware and I guess this you know this is I'd encourage us to look at the issue um as you know a bigger topic of public participation because I think what we're thinking about here and I'm thinking about master plan issues as I suggest last meeting um we want more public participation so you know that's my angle on it but I think that that isn't exclusive to zoom uh D point like I don't think it's necessarily one of the other but I think it is the topic that had Duncan had earlier visibility in the public domain there could have been a different convers maybe the conversation would have been easier maybe have been much worse I don't know how it could have gotten worse I think people weren't informed though and they showed up like like me at the 11th Hour like hey what's going on here and you know didn't know because it's an odd activity to come on a Tuesday at 7:30 yeah I don't think transparency I don't want to use that as like uh you know we're doing something Shady down here and need to tell people what it is I just think it's it's a good thing to just say have the option to even just view what's what the conversations are I mean I have two young kids I wouldn't miss this for the world because it gives me opportunity to talk to adults so I won't missing any of these meetings but just the chance to allow people as they're cooking dinner to be like all right like let's hear what's going on in fairy but I just don't think that that's necessarily a bad thing we don't talk about anything that isn't public on public domain on YouTube the next day but it could just be nice to open to broaden people's Horizons so why not go back to like what Andrew is saying with the um YouTube like like like you can go watch Church if we're worried about participation like I don't think that we're going to have to really worry about those types of things I mean if you can you can always if there's a Hot Topic coming up it could go either way people could come in they could Doom I mean but I don't the name isn't to like silence them because of that you know and not even give them the option yeah no I want them to come in yeah and you know that's that's what I I if we could live stream it if we have the capabilities to just throw something on YouTube in real time there's that's maybe maybe a few hours more advertising better having here's a YouTube link if you want to watch live and not come see us we'd love to have you an audience like that kind of do what is being said on Zoom rather just yeah can't you put G say like if you want to discuss something you have to physically come in in person but you know there's no participation it's just you're just here to listen to I just don't think that that's I guess if you twe it and not zoom it it's that's known because there is no way to so that that could be that kind of Sol that could be how the conversation progressing and so just like one way exactly I I keep going back there was because I I feel like we wanted this exact same thing two years ago and yeah it didn't it didn't ISS it did not the exhibits when we were talking about Sandwich Board diagrams of property we couldn't figure out like there wasn't the same ability to get the same view for every yeah a presentation the problem yeah so for the public you know we have all the paperwork of problem so the the inability for the public to see the exhibits like fully if they're like zooming in or on YouTube was that like a legal concern because I mean I guess my point is that the public would kind of know that right going into it if they're G to join a live stream or Zoom they're not going to be able to see the exhibits the same way as if they're like physically in this room so was there was there a legal concern with that you put on my Todd leader hat you could you could claim that somebody did not have the full breath of evidence a voting member voted but wasn't totally informed because they on our not the public side again why I think it just shouldn't count to V but that's that's just me um so how so I think should we do we want to make a motion to have a policy and then see if that passes and then we can talk about how we implement the policy do we want to hear from the public yeah I just did to say we had a couple members so uh anyone have any commentary on Zoom well the first thing I'll say because I come to all the meetings is I usually can't see what's being presented anybody sitting so I would like to I a lot of the other interesting okay so just as side maybe for presentations maybe we do put the here so the public can see the M out they in person well well Sheil would that would there be a way for as you're if you're controlling the presentation um uh could you present the way that you know could you use the technology to present the documents remotely I think there is a way to would that be too much of a burden for what you're it could be slightly Pome depending on you know because I'm generally sort pain what you're saying not fly because I'm trying to you know make note of all it so I I would have to just kind of I think dive into that see what the options might be the public M address please withraw so just to sort of answer on that one specific question I believe it's if Allison has the information before the meeting then she can put it up on the TVs and at home they also see it like it's a PowerPoint presentation can't really do it on the fly if someone's here you know they just email her she's got too much going on so she has to have it in advance the only other thought I had based on everything you said there seems to be an option you're not going toward it but I'll just mention it is my thought was if you had uh this is a little different this body because you have alternates we don't have it so all of our council members obviously are voting in every situation so my question was if you had all alternates here in person and then you had more permanent members on Zoom um does the Quorum that you said you had to have in person include the alternates and if so are they the ones that are voting if there's an application it does the the alternates have always counted towards a quum if they were needed to count towards a quum and voted and voted vot on I guess what I'm saying is who would the votes go to to in that situ when you have a permanent council member that's it would go the vote the vote would go to the people present yes the people yeah yeah thank you would be expressly stated that materials need to be submitted ahead of there's nothing no like exhibits introduced on the flight you can't you can't introduce anything at the last minute and which happens every single time no you can't that that constraints on on how else you on an applicant you can't the mode of hearing application is in person right this is meant to help that process right it's not meant to replace the in-person process right that's at least how I Envision that would need to be very very clear that any applicant has to be presenting all materials in person yes absolutely do we want to um start yeah so yeah I know we had some other discuss so um is everybody ready to vote on that now or do you want to wait okay yes all right so I'll make a motion to uh introduce the use of um uh conferencing techn ology into into planning board meetings in a mode to be determined uh with with further votes what do you mean by in a mode to be determined well we're gonna we're gonna decide say want we're gonna decide how and then we're gonna decide how to implement it right either want it or not and then and then then we going to decide how we detail not being determined tonight correct take our Fe yeah uh Mr no Mr P yes Mr n no Mr P yes Mr yes Mr ni yes Mr yes Mr Anderson no Mr Bailey yes Mr yes okay so um we will I mean I there was a number of other things that we wanted to um to discuss uh that um so last week so what we'll do is next week we'll continue this discussion and actually it'll help to have Doug here right next week or I'm sorry next month because he can speak to some of the the legal issues of what we can and can't do um and then we can decide that the scope of how this will this will roll out okay so just by voting yes presume it it could not work out anyway because we couldn't agree on how to implement right um right well because I think we would yeah we just voted on on on taking next step gra policy right that's right I just think if there's going to be a policy like just talking amongst like I mean it got very complicated do this you can't like it has to be simple what we decide on like it has got to be simple not well you didn't hand This and like it's just no no that's why it's an inperson again I I keep getting back to the to the point of it's an inperson meeting you have to be here to cast a boat and it's a convenience thing right and so again the problem I'm trying and again all to to you know JY said it best is like we're trying to solve something we don't really have a problem with and in the sense that we've never had you know a quorum issue we've never had to cancel a meeting because um we didn't have enough people and so you know but I do think that it would be helpful I think your comments are good about allowing people to watch or the public be able to see it from home um without having to come but they then I think smart enough to understand if you don't come here you're not really you may not have the opportunity to see everything that's going on you know whatever but again spark something to come you are you have to be here in person full stop right if you you're going to present you're going to present an application your lawyer has to be here your planner has to be here everybody has to be here because the board and everybody voting is also going to be here right now there may be a board member that joins from Zoom that person can ask some questions help guide the meeting but they have no vote in that in in that meeting that's how I Envision it right now you know again we can all disagree we can all you know but it's a very limit it's meant to be a very limited um use of of technology I I think like kind of in the spirit Jimmy of like the reasons why you're voting no on that like I can kind of see why yeah I agree with we're trying to solve a problem we don't have it's like to your point Kelly about like Simplicity is important in this and being very explicit about what is allowed I think I think is our this is our opportunity to kind of like contain like contain it you know um Simplicity means very specific instructions on what is allowed and what isn't allowed and who can participate in the oneway mirror like kind of live feed versus the just the free-for-all like hand up on Zoom you know I think I think there's ways that we can control it but um but I also like you know now I've kind of changed my mind on the voting in person versus voting over Zoom maybe I'm more of an iners only I I when when when we were doing Zoom only during the during the the pandemic I don't recall people being overly verbose in the public meaning people raising their hands pontificating on nonsense that kind of thing do environmental committee environmental committee is set up exactly as we are debating the public can be involved they can speak during the open Forum we've I've never met one of the guys on it because he always do and it's never a it's really just never a problem nobody gets on and and you know goes on forever it's really it's just kind of fine I just think on with this like you have a lot of emotion on certain because we're actually voting on it is like no no I I I I I agree that the public should be have a a view I just I yeah and honestly when we were zooming during Co not that many people joined then either and actually we had a lot more applications at that point I I remember there was a lot more going on during that time and there weren't a lot of people that would come on but it's a good option I just I'm worri that the board shouldn't be able to yeah so we'll um we'll continue this discussion at the next meeting we'll work out a mode of of implementing this and and take the the requisite votes um and like I said it'll be helpful to have Doug here uh last week we met in uh or I'm sorry last week last month we met in executive session um we addressed the matters we had to address an executive session and then we started discussing uh future uh initiatives or things that we might want to undertake as a board how we might get those on the schedule what jurisdiction or what what statutorily are we able to do as a board given our limited uh given our limited mandate and then um and and Doug suggested that we have those those discussions in the open right and I think that's smart smart advice so we're going to continue that discussion here in the open today I spoke with uh with Sean uh over email I think there was a number of things you were uh you know you thought might be useful um so let's kick off that that discussion right so the the way I wanted to start is um Sheila how what's the pipeline look like in terms of of like potential applications right so we've got uh seven more meetings left after tonight and I I only think there's like what three applications maybe just one just one that okay SE that's Sandy Hook Seafood they went the second Jett sea to Sandy Hook sea um they submitted the application Rich reviewed it and um did a completeness review that is dated May 17 it was me to be incomplete and there are several items upon which they need to come back with um so from there it could potentially be another 45 days after submission and that is all I have so then we have a a fairly open um you know open Agenda in terms of certainly next month's meeting right there's nothing scheduled for next month in terms of new business heard or two about possible subdivision but that's something kind and then um so the earliest we could probably hear Sandy Hook Seafood is is July would probably be the earliest and so um you know that leaves us obviously we have the zoom issue to to conclude upon next month and then um look I I just thought we would have an open discussion about what other items we we needed to undertake I know Sean you talked about um I mean maybe you just want to go over the the three items um yeah sure and I have some thoughts and and also just you know how we might decide to to um undertake these these yeah and and just for everybody else I just I ideas just topics that kind of have come up prior to me taking a a spot on the board so I I don't know the right way to introduce them other than just to kind ofing to this grout and thinking exactly how you just put it into context um not a lot on the agenda for the next few months is there something that you know quite a lot of brain power in this room that you know we can be doing a little bit more proactive work on helping the community out um so I I kind of don't know exactly where our our swim lanes are like where they end and start end but one of them that it comes to mind is is dealing BL um so distress vacant properties um particularly on River Road um I do believe that is an area where the planning board can can get involved and can make recommendations to the governing body about how to handle those properties um now I'm thinking a very wide definition of BL which is you know properties that are run down not maintained may or may not be vacant um but so let's let's talk about that right so the way I I I think we would address something like that and uh I'd like to hear everybody's opinion is is so first of all and I I have not done this yet um but I I think what do the what does the master plan say about BL right is there anything in the master plan that addresses that and then is there anything in that in the master plan that that that talks about what we as a board are able to do do right and and so if there's nothing that we are I mean there's in terms of the um the powers and duties that we have as a board like we couldn't pass an ordinance that says that that limits what right you know a homeowner has to do to to minimize blight but what we could do is recommend courses of action to the goverment body to undertake right I would I think there's when so so like like like so we Doug was was kind enough to go back and and you know it's like you've got a pretty limited mandate right so it's it's to prepare uh an after public hearing adopt or amend the master plan so we're responsible for the contents of the master plan um which is a pretty extensive document um and I encourage everybody to to I mean I've not read it cover to cover but I've read parts of it uh as as necessary it's a pretty extensive um it's a pretty extensive document right it's actually due to be reexamined to be Revisited in 26 I believe 2026 okay so I think one of the things we should probably do towards the end of the year is make sure there's room in the schedule in 2025 to address how that process will play out if if so do you know if it's due it like we have to uh resubmit the plan in 26 or it's a process that we have to undertake in 26 I think both I think maybe until December 26 okay so we'll have to ask Alison we know that okay but if you wanted to make any changes you have time process question M so the the the the tree ordinance that the shade tree commission elevated to the council like two years ago uh my I was always in the impression that it would be viewed by the council voted on by in that chamber and then it would have to be added to the master point just in that specific example would could the planning board just take control of that suggested addition to the master plan or does that have to come from the council um we're responding that I would I would think it would have to be approved by the council the council for this could delegate certain um Can delegate certain actions to the board to either the zoning board or the planning board so and they would come back with a recommendation yeah and then the council would act but they're the only ones that that can actually vote on that mayor and Council are the only body in the town that can actually pass that is enforceable right so as I understand it but recommendations are pretty powerful yeah agreed so we would have to put on the schedule so what I would encourage everybody to do is obviously look at the master plan does the master plan say anything about blight and we can put that as a topic on on one of the um one of the agendas um so there there's a Code I've actually looked into this because every day I walk past a tree growing out of a building which is the old barin Stell and in the kitchen is a tree growing out of it so I did some research and it's it's a Code Enforcement issue I don't know if it's necessarily our body so it's um the municipal ordinance does reference the international uh maintenance property maintenance code we do have that on the books and that is that could be used to bring Property Owners to court and and and just have them start to maintain the property in a way that we see fit that's the understanding that I have um secret uses something similar so I checked with them we have it on our books and then we would bring them to rson to the court at rson and that's where we would start to say like you're not here you're not here you're not here these are the things you need to do to get to them obviously the tree out of the building would be one of them that's PS but that's a exactly so I'm wondering if like that would be actually go to council instead of it would be there are ordinances that determine the condition of your property you have to keep your grass at a certain time you can't put certain things in the front of your yard or your sidey yard or in your driveway so those are all enforceable you know is the tree a tall tree that has to go to the tree commit more ivy this could be somewhere else but no so I'm just wondering like these it kind of does seem like a gray because it's a um it's not residential right like it's it's a restaurant it's an old restaurant so who does that they're still subject to the same exactly so I'm wondering why where you know if there's light like any the any building that looks like that kills the Vitality of a small town period so what can we do to work with you know whoever it has to be to make sure that those people are well I mean you can you can reach out to and have the code enforcement officer che check it out yeah it seems I it it seems that um code enforcement has changed recently I think they're starting to enforce it different or or they're starting to enforce it at all right at all they enforc the brush I got a big I got a big letter on my door but you are correct you have a a code enforcement officer Brock right Brock who is incredible yeah I I was talking to him in upstairs when I was here he pretty serious months ago very serious and and I I got to talking to him but he um and and he said that people were taking advantage because things weren't being enforced and he is well and and he said that he is warning people but he's also saying I am warning you but I'm also telling you the citation will be issued right after and he he was yeah and and it seemed like that for situations like that it could make a big difference and I mean you know and and specifically for me you know our commercial District I mean the way you come into this town is for me it's just not maintained the way that it should be and I understand that there's so much that goes into the Urban Development into that and and and you know sort of Legacy ownership and all these different things but I think there are probably things that we can do as a body that start to to take some of those into consideration I don't know in the examination of the master plan obviously I wasn't involved but when that's happened in the past right the the same master plan has been renewed since 2005 I think when it was originally written and then you know updated or renewed in whenever and then again in 17 or 18 or 20 I don't 2016 it was 16 right but it was Rewritten in 16 it was re-exam re how thorough are those reexaminations how much of a how much of a voice does this body have in it where do the um suggestions from the board to council originate from what is that process and how if if as a board like given the schedule and the time if we really wanted to take a deep dive into it and and read the master plan and I I've read it but um I'd have to reread it and and really look at it and have the planners that do urban planning really take a look at it I mean a lot has changed in the last five six seven years and so you know I guess the question is how do we really deeply examine it and make sure that we are trying to not just move forward a document that's been somewhat stale since 2005 and you know but but really deeply examining what is that and I just don't know right so um but I think given the growth in this town and some of the directions it's taken it will probably benefit us and all the residents to really spend some time thinking about that and and see yeah so so I'll I'll take it for the next meeting to make sure we have a timeline like what is the what is the deadline right so what for laal better term right what is the deadline to have the master plan reexamined statutorily and then I think we can devise the steps or or the process under which we'll we'll undertake like the process by which we'll do that and so what does that like you know we're going to have to engage public right so you know I just looking at how the the police station was handled where there was multiple meetings with the public there was Outreach planned there was you know a lot of active engagement that happened so we should again I think it starts with what what's the deadline when does it have to be done by and what actions have to be taken by what bodies in the town and then just work backwards from there and and and understand like what you know what we'll do in in that time frame there's um we've had a bit of a shakeup in the environmental committee we our chairman is no longer so we we can't get a quorum at this point for the foreseeable future I would really love if we could prioritize getting those members in any way involved you know the environmental standards that we have in fairen are the lowest rung that New Jersey mandates I hope to change we hope to change that to make sure that we're actually you know up a little higher I think that would maybe put some change the way that the master plan is you know looked at and put it through a different lens a more sustainable lens so I don't know what the next few months look like from that committee it's going to be a little interesting but you know as we kind of have these conversations you know hopefully we can get some of their involvement sure I mean we would yeah like I said I think it starts with getting the the what what's the deadline and then we can work backwards from there and it would entail like I said the public Outreach but also obviously the other committees in the town the other bodies in the town would need to be um consulted and and their input um I think we should all refresh like I said I haven't read it cover to cover I've read parts of it and probably more of it when I first started doing this but haven't picked it up in quite some time so I I think you know homework for everybody before next meeting if you can read as much of it as you can and so when it comes to the back I guess so when I read it it's very like it's it's a bit of a strategy like it's kind of like high level it lacks specificity in certain areas which I think are maybe that's that's kind of where I come from there are there are pain points that business owners um different members of the public experience and I'm trying to find a method for taking that that feedback um call it feedback um and how do we take action proactively with it light is just one you know it's one of one topic I thought could kind of galvanize a couple different things going on um but I I wanted to kind of summarize what I heard are we saying in that particular instance the way we are defined in that space with the master plan it's a code enforcement it's a like BL in my view is a is a unless anyone wants to disagree to me is is a council is a is an ordinance enforcement you know is an ordinance enforcement process process that we then it's not a process we would drive however what I would as a planning board we would drive what I would say is in the in in readdressing the master plan if there's nothing in there about blight well maybe we should talk maybe there should be a section in the master plan about blight and how we feel it should be addressed in in the future that way when for example an application comes to the floor I can think of one in particular um next to the park on Third Street when when that guy toward remember the house like there was a ton of light there that needed to be fixed and we addressed it in in some of the we addressed um some of those issues as conditions in the resolution so now again I don't know if there was something in the master plan about blight but we address that look you had to have a fence that fence had to look good in in you know between the the the house and the park like there were things that we did that would fall in that category and so I mean I think we can codify we would could address some of that in the master plan going forward and then also obviously we could write a letter to council and say look you know we've noticed in our dealings across the burough that there's you know blight there's trees growing out of buildings there's all kinds of other you know chaos happening that needs to be that needs to be enforced and so we we should you know write that you know we can that we can do but there's nothing that we could we could do today vote on and enforce we just don't have that that mandate that makes sense so I guess what I was thinking is if if I want to be more proactive and action oriented I think you just said that it's it's us to it's still us to counsel in this conversation it's not us to be code enforcement official we don't go directly to that person I guess I mean anyone can yeah Ian you're right call B Hall and say you have concern about this property you probably couldn't do it as a member with your position on the planning board but as a resident you certainly have that option do you have a property in mind that you're thinking of or yeah there's a few well let start but I just think it's and you know and um not to change topics but the other topic was just when you think about the the the overlay of um zoning and like what like for example setbacks on River Road are the exact same setbacks that are on my street on River and River Road buildings are meant to be a lot of them are meant to be commercial like their Zone multi-use um so for me I'm a property owner on on River Road and if I were to want to rebuild that building it would force me to build by by planning standards a very unfavorable building that no one will be very happy with and so I just think it's a vulnerability that we have um especially Corner Lots on River Road um and we talked about specul and people coming into to town and and you know taking advantage of the high property values um it's it's I think it's just it's well enough known that this body if if not this body I thought this body would be the right one to do it could start looking at that more proactively and saying like how do we help protect our town from some of these vulnerabilities so it setbacks s Heights um parking all those things what I'd say is we take the document and maybe take pen and paper and break it down into subcommittees so take sections of it and we can each you know we can team up and you know break take pieces of the document and make recommendations just like we did with the restaurant language I mean it was extraordinary how much work we did on just one tiny issue but I think you're you're hitting on you know some of the the Hot Topics because even in town as I've harped on a bunch of times you've got you know from you know browsers you know to Def falcon go to you know to you know all the way down to foreign cars like it sort of bounces around and you've got different properties groups of properties that are owned by one person that could be sold at a single time there's a lot in that and I think a lot of that um you know there's there's signage there's you know elevations there's you know a bunch of things that are in the master plan or guidelines of the master plan that you know are important and I you know I personally totally agree on that and I think if we break the document open um and sort of raise our hands for different pieces of we can start to dig into that it will make a huge difference and and listen the there there's urgency to it because some of these buildings are transacting and if you miss that you miss that opportunity and you know I like Sean owned some commercial property in town that I put substantial dollars into and I had this discussion with the mayor and with some other council members and just said like guys I'm about to put real money into this building and the setbacks are such that I need to be 35t from the street when the truth is I should be a 10 feet so that the public can engage with me and there's one time for me to do it and it's now otherwise it's 30 years down the road right when I depreciate it and when some of these other things happen and you know so the longer that it's perpetuated the longer we're going to have this schoras board of setbacks and things and obviously you can't time when things transact but you know they're and and and then with that guard rails need to be put in in terms of architectural covenants and restriction so that it feels in the right scale and it has the I mean you know there's a lot of different layers but just that is is a huge starting point and can start to bring some consistency to an area I mean you know and and for a minute you know I was looking like I was saying guys I would love to bring my building 10 ft up to the road I have you tons of parking in the back let's see if we can get the building next door your building on the corner and now we have a whole row from Den Normandy to you know whatever it is where we can right to Clay where we can now either give to the town for grandfathering a whole parking lot back behind so that then people can park and now people can go walk this community and they can spend in the community and they get engaged with the stores and you know like those things getting layered in to this town would help make it more special than it is and and not you know it but it it would have to be done with a lot of thought and a lot of oversight you know people that know what they're doing and um I mean it it so like there's a those are a lot of holes that I know you and I feel similarly and and so that's why I brought it up as a for disc if that's not what this body is meant to do like that's fine cool like we yeah so so you're subdivision of corner locks right like that that that issue that you that you rais or one you know part of yeah I was trying to that was an example I I don't because you get you we're kind of a body that says kind of strategy even and like here's how we want something to work and then there are even there's laws that come down from that right so it's more River Road let's just say as simply as this River Road is treated like every other Road in our in our town and it's not right it's not you know I I would point to that very specific excuse me example of setbacks um but there's there's a number of other challenges yeah I mean I I don't I mean that the the issue of of treating River Road differently we would I I think we would address that strategically in the master plan at a high level I think that would then become a zoning like the zoning board I I would think would have to amend that or would count or C I know we wouldn't amend it right we we could make a recommendation but but it's not it would not be our job to vote and pass it well we do but I guess it's it comes down to like there's a lot of conversations that have gone on with different council members about how do we take the first step and I guess my my my me on this for the you know just new to this board do we as a board is this like like I said we have a lot of smart people in the room a lot of experience is it the work has to be done now do we do it through by the vehicle of the master plan and that's the vehicle that actually drives out a lot of these like specific topics well I think you push you push on many different fronts just how I would look at it right so you would you know for more immediate I think action or outcome I think we can put it on the agenda that we would like to craft some kind of recommendation to council and then we could craft some recommendation along the lines of of what we we would like to see as an outcome and propose a method to get to get to that outcome whether that be a draft resolution that we'd be willing to to to take and then I think when it comes time to review the master plan we would then start to write some of that strategy into the master plan so now when applications come forward that have exceptions looking to be granted we would then have to look at those exceptions through the lens of this New Perspective that we've laid out in the master plan you see my does that does that make sense question can I go back for a minute the two properties you're talking about on River Road I know which one yours is I don't know which I'm envisioning it but um when we approved the sonoko site the work obviously hasn't been done yet but that that is all pushed for parking in the back push up yeah that yes so that was that was like the the the future thinking of River Road is to have retail 10et off the curb score right and so what why is that different than the properties you're referring are you have to go through a variance process to create what we all want so the setbacks haven't changed so is granted for the sonoko in that way or is approved in that way but the setbacks are still looking back to what they were you know in the old master plan in the old old zoning ordinances so um it's I think it's the will of you know sort of the general will of the town that they want to see that they like this down every does and everybody wants parking in the back my whole point is if if it's the will of the town to to do what you know kind of Andy described and what sowo could deliver um if it's ever you know actioned is why why would I as a as a home as a property owner have to go through the Darius process to get that done it should just be how Z how are you zon is are you with a5t set are you a residential zoning with mixed think B1 I think that's B1 so so there there are distinctions between B1 B2 and some of the um before well having overlay zones and you know there there's a lot to it and and and by the way I mean it just brings me to a separate topic that is just also about um speed and efficiency of the process and and and more importantly FAL to the uh resident and the owner you know I think that there are some issues that need to be resolved with that and you know a lot of it lies within the fact that the codification isn't reflective of what it seems people want I I don't know what I know what I I know what I would prefer I don't know what everyone else would prefer at the moment but you know the like that code and and that's Nuance though because we're also in historic district in in those properties right yeah it's as simple it's black and white like there's a table of zones and lot coverage and setbacks on front side like it's it's it's a piece of but that's not black and white there though Sean because it's in the historic district so if you're a cont if you're a contributing structure that that the governing bodies have historically seen value in that specific structure is going to be treated differently than a structure that has no contributing back so you know like there's a whole lot of nuance to those specific places but but but there are ways to to to solve for that right there there there there are things that you can do to to work it in but I think and that's all right to answer your specific question for this specific property I'm not trying to like self Sur I'm just trying to use it as an example what the town is telling me is they want me to put a building there that has 25 ft on either side and I don't think that's really what the town was and that's not what it should and for me to get something that would make more sense that maybe people in the town would want or even people in leadership position that said they want I would have to go through a variance process and I just don't think that's right and and that process I just did it and that process will cost you about a 100 Grand and it will cost you about nine months and it makes absolutely no sense from a business standpoint and and you know had this conversation and said I've done it twice now only only because I care about the town what I want to put in the to not not for it'll it'll pay off in the long run but like that that's a very honorous position and and there are a lot of people in this town who can't afford the process that they face to get these things done and that's not a fair position for them to be in forgetting the commercial district is as well like I think that's a separate topic is how how you streamline and and get some cost Effectiveness to the process overall but one way to do it certainly is to in in that area is to change the codes to allow for the building that mayor council or residents want to see what the what that progress is to to paper that Vision so that because as a developer you're going to do what the codes tell you to do because you're not going to undertake the process that's going to be lengthy and cost ly and you're not going to know the outcome because you're going to need a variance right so by by cleaning that up it'll it'll it it will really clean up a lot of things in this time it'll take some time but you'll you you'll see it I think you're not going to change the various process I we've talked about this this G goes all the way back to the C past discussions you know what fresh went through when she wanted to switch sides of the street um but what we can I mean because I think the VAR whether or not it's more cumbers and fair versus Red Bank or rson you know is up debate but the master plan and I'm intimate with this because of the restaurant discussion the master plan uh I W say it's Antiquated but it's it's 10 years old and it does there's a lot of uniformity in terms of what people want in this town you know the Mayberry thing in the walkable District the commerci there's a lot of I think Spirit behind the commercial District which be and historic districts should be so I think if we open this back up we're going to find that um that there is you know uniformity around you know people's desire to have buildings hope you know this you know sort of this same field that was agreed upon in the sonoko um so I think unfortunately as I don't know as I've learned you know we've all been around this for a little while variance process isn't going to change but we can really think we should start you know I mean actually it's what we're doing cracking this open now because it's going to take some time and I think this is also is it an exercise including H rle right we bring to the table as well yeah bring the planners in like let them do their jobs right tell them what we want and yeah get them you know you know get that for you know let's all read the document look through it have sort of an open discussion on you know what our thoughts are and then for the very next meeting bring them in and say okay guys here's what we you know educated ourselves what you think bet master plan aside didn't we already kind of do something similar to this um with Todd in regards to Soka no measure measuring Heights of the buildings whether it was off the crown of the road or the curb of the road and then we recommended a change to the ordinance based on that because as a planning board we were having trouble you know looking at plans Andy you talk about the curb you talk the street where you talking from was that was that kick was the subject there I don't know if KCK was or not second FL I guess what I'm getting as we we could master plan five separate separate project or whatever but we could do the same thing with the setback in the business district or B whatever yeah take it on as a group we had a committee that worked on it we had a committee and it's it's it's per to the planning board to make sense for what we do back and that that and we we drew up and we we we came up with a resolution or whatever we thought the ordinance changed to and brought to that town and then they changed they Chang was brought to council and they voted or not right how long did that take start uh I would say nine months took a long time yeah that's normal course of action I don't know if it he did to take n months but that's the end result it's actually st2 that it definitely was longer than six months yeah so so that example what I'm hearing you say is and correct me if I'm wrong you can look at specific things that are in the planning guide and I say planning sorry like that whether it's Heights whether it's setback within our realm of our we can look at specific areas and look at making those and changes to that yep so Sean to your point where those where you see those pinch points or those pain points what are they how do we look at them what recommendations can be made spefic spefic to those and and start while simultaneously really doing a deep dive into the master plan to start to listen I think that will be phenomenal I think it will be phenomenal for this town for the residents for you know and I that's just my personal opinion so you know but I think the extent that there's a board that and and maybe it's happened in the past I don't know but to the extent that there's a board now that is willing to really try to push for that and and mayor and Council and everybody is ready and and it could y there's no one that's not invested in the business district yeah people want to make it better yeah yeah actually off Jim's Point there's you know there's the ordinances and then there's the plan right and the plan is a vision the ordinances are the the details of that Vision you're not even in the plan I think that's a great point I think maybe you know you know to the extent show you've got specific you know things that are in the ordinances that you're really focused on and informing you know both the subd discussion and a bigger discussion that has producted great yeah I just and you kind of pointed it out it it felt like in the last six months we were at a Tipping Point four properties in the historic district have changed ownership um two one's been heavily invested in one's 775 is about to be heavily invested business district in the business the historic like so I'm thinking L down Bo onit right at the corner right by the vet right so that's four have changed over um two have been heavily invested in I'm sort of teetering that's the third so it's just there are to in his point there are people that are invested financially invested and want to make it better but the roadblocks or or so the guidelines I would say that are in place lead you down the wrong path and so I'm looking at can we actually change those guide those guard rails those guidelines so that when the next buyer comes in they don't have to go through the same it it would I can tell you point blank my building would have been 10 ft off this property line and and it would have been more in line with what the vision of the town is and I can also tell you that I can't afford to do it now so and but honestly I mean you know and if things change Sean will do it at some point boxwoods will do it and then they'll be in alignment with busero and the little so shop and the others I mean it'll it'll it'll present this town very differently and you know you don't have to lose the historical context and you don't have to lose the quain you know small town ofid in doing that and so it's important to ask do you have do you have interactions with the historical uh commission love them great I love them I found them to be an absolute pleasure and reasonable and um I can't say enough positive things about my experience with that board right you know yeah they you know it it was for me just on the other side of the table where you get a lot of times a lack of Common Sense on this side of the table I mean you know with what I wanted to do I understood you know I couldn't afford to do from a business standpoint what the historic commission would like to the letter and said but I want to do this this this and this and I think it's going to be a tremendous Improvement and a lot of boards right thank you and a lot of boards you face won't see the forest through the trees or trees through the forest whatever it is and and and say no and they were like oh my God you you know your tenants have said don't need to do a thing to the building yet you want to spend all this money to improve it for this street skate we are so thankful for them yes it's not exactly what we want however it's a huge step in the right direction and like that willingness to work with me as an applicant at that point is phenomenal and that's what's going to Foster growth in the directions that we want you know so and you can't do that through the variance process because it really is too cost prohibitive and there's too much you know there's too much uncertainty so when these things are codified it'll it'll really help but I I love that sorry that's a long way say absolutely absolutely love you know so yeah it's worth it the um the variance process won't change the landscape has changed a third 5-year-old buying house in Dar Haven used to be something relatively normal you'd have to have $2 million to do that right now if you bought a house in 2018 before you had children and now you have two and your husband works in a basement you would want to try to make it change so that you can fit your family and all of those processes because nobody goes to work anymore the landscap has change the town needs to catch up to these kind of world changes it's worth it for us to do the work to make sure that a young family can actually live comfortably in Fair he I think that's like the least we could do it as you know as a board okay so I think the action items are for next week are the zoom uh the zoom Rule and uh undertaking how that's going to operate um I think understanding what the process is for the master plan um and then devising um a schedule and and Outreach and when all that's going to happen and who's going to take what part of the plan at least to start examining um how how that process will work um and then I think Sean so for your items do we want to um so do we want to schedule those it items for an expanded discussion or for a craft a recommendation sure I don't is that the best way to I mean I I think you like I said at the top I think the the the way to do that is you'd have to push on all fronts so um you know if we want to draft something with regards to to blight and you want to and we want to draft something with regards to um the setback and River Road I think um we would we we can do that I mean I have no problem under you know doing that I think the way we would um we we need to be specific right so we need to to look at as you said right we need to be specific right so we need to look at what ordinance we are looking to amend and and then we'd have to write a recommendation to council for that Amendment so [Music] um we'd have to under we we'd have to go into a process similar to what we did for the um for the building ordinance in terms of blight to the extent what I guess one question is what's over the borders of the current ordinances in terms of property Ms Right like yes I mean we have to that I mean I got to think like having a dumpster in your driveway for eight months without doing any work on your house I mean that's the kind of thing there's you know vastly overgown lots and as I sort of walk River Road I can think of a couple of spots that are a mess I'm curious how much of this can be simply solved with you know call to code enforcement just I'm sure a lot of it yeah I mean I guess I bring that up because you know do we want to open this up I want to be careful there's already something on the books to solve this I want to be careful about opening up the planning board because I don't want to be seen as the planning board coming through to tell people you know you know if it already if there's a need to maintain the image of the town then we've got to solve that but if it's already there I want to kind of avoid putting new language in agreed to you know we have to stay Within These gu allowed to do what empowered to do so one to your point one could be looking at well what what is outlined today like grass site was one example like and if there's gaps right that's something this body could say we think there's a gap I would grab the or I look at the ordinances and see what they say and then call Brock I mean I suspect I don't know him but I suspect he's kind of it sounds like he's pick up the phone and great yeah problem that he was great yes and and finally will it seemed to me that some of the residents would push back on some of these code enforcement issues when they were brought to their attention and they weren't being pushed further my friend with Brock is he follows up the and yeah yeah I was pretty impressed by him a couple conversations I've had and Allison is also a good resource for for ordinances if you're looking for a specific situation she's she's great at that so should we outline some of the items for blight [Music] and allocate them for people to to have a look through the codes to see what's there so we're yeah I think then that's that's a good idea so so I think we need to I mean what we're empowered to do right I mean we we do have the authority to to look at an ordinance and suggest changes and we can do that without being directed to do so by mayor and Council it would seem by my read of this yeah I the planning board is autonomous they can they can take that on so I think the the steps as I said I I'll take this this sort of overall Master process process and and timeline and get the timelines and the dates and and how that is supposed to work through 2026 because I think this is something that would probably take that long quite frankly so um uh so I I'll get the specifics on that and then Sean I think for the next meeting if you can bring what ordinance with regards to to um to the setbacks on River Road that we like to amend specifically and then we can talk about recommendations to make to that um to to that ordinance same thing with blight yeah I think you may find that a lot of and I'm willing to help you with it too um a lot of that has has already been documented it's just not being followed through on you know code enforcements not being made aware of it what you're saying now is gonna happen with the new guy yeah definitely you know he he responds to problems he doesn't go out and look for problems corre so if he doesn't know that it's a problem he can't do anything better you know right now he's focused on implementing brush yeah and I think sum yeah I got I got a big sign on my one little and that was great coming do job Russi he towards the end he came into the sessions and was got brought in along with what we were just because a lot of the conversation in that in that sphere was Enforcement Act but we didn't know you we kind of had ideas about how to move it forward and he was a good good person to bring into that conversation so I don't doubt his intentions once he's put in a in a direction right and we are getting a new burrow administrator that hopefully will be energized and really wants to know who it is it secet well we think we know who it is but our current B administrator hasn't put in their paperwork yet so is going to retire uh she hasn't finalized the date yet okay hold on all okay so I think we have a plan for next uh next month and um and it looks like there will be no application Sheila next month so we'll have time to continue these discussions so thank you Sheila ask that we survey the master plan everybody on on the board just so that we can it's available the so I I'll move to close the meeting sir we need thanks stay to the