this is a regular meeting of the Fair Haven zoning Board of adjustment adequate notice of this meeting has been given pursuant to the provisions of the open public meetings act at the time of the board reorganization in January of this year the board adopted its regular meeting schedule for the year notice of the schedule was sent to and published in the Asbury Park Press on January 26 2020 it was definitely published in the Asbury Park Press and the two River times that notice is also posted on the bu bordon B Hall and has remained continuously posted there as required by the statute copy of the notice is and has been available to the public and is on file with the office of the door foot a copy of the notice has also been sent to such members of the public as have requested such information in accordance to the statute adequate notice having been given the board secretary is directed to include the statement in the minutes of the meeting before proceeding with the formal meeting tonight I'd like to say a few words to the applicants their experts in the audience about the role and authority of the faan zoning Board of adjustment the board is a separate and independent Municipal legal entity and its limited Authority is specifically set forth in B ordinances in the New Jersey municipal land use law squads I judicial in nature and the members of the board are unpaid volunteers appointed by the mayor and Council the zoning board does not enact the bough land use laws and regulations the bough Council does that the zoning board does not enforce the land use laws of the B of Fair Haven this is the responsibility of the buau code enforcement officer this board deals with appeals for release from the requirement of the bur's land use laws or denials by the zoning officer an applicant is never entitled to a variance also known as an exception to the zoning regulations but must meet specific criteria required by the New Jersey municipal Lan's law and the Fair Haven ordinances by satisfying certain required standards approved the board has no authority to wave these requirements the board appr is always on the applicant to show that he or she is entitled to the specific relief requested the applicant must prove that a deviation from the regulations will advance the purposes of the ordinance and that the deviation would substantially outweigh any detriment of his Zone plan variances relate to the future use of the land and are not intended or authorized to remedy temporary or unique personal situations roll call please Mr n here Mr D'Angelo here Mr Bri here Mr for here Mr laer here Mr shetti here Mr here please join me stand okay since everyone's here for the GU matter so we're going to call Mr guaro up first the testimony give before the board the truth not of Truth I do okay state your name for the reference by your last name back in two back over there I'm sorry just give us your name and your address for the record yes Sean G last name spelled g AI e o address is a Hendricks in place so um so Mr Carol I understand that the the board had previously granted an approval for a modification to your house renovation and uh you were looking for the board to extend the deadline for starting construction um I believe you submitted a letter to the board didn't you yes uh let's see in May 2023 okay yes so the as I'm understanding the the situation the the T did you previously get an extension did okay so there was one extension previously granted for the benefit of the board uh Mr G has not started his project the extension of the year has passed there was some confusion over the summer when the board secretary was transferring over with regard to the request for the extension Mr G is now uh requesting not a 12-month extension but an 18-month extension uh of the time to to proceed um you had asked whether or not you needed to be here you didn't need to be here but I told you that you could be here to the extent that the board members had any questions um you know that a few of these had come up over the summer um for a variety of reasons we've seen um a number of these in recent um in recent months frankly um and so the the basic request is for the board to extend the period everybody knows that when we Grant an approval it expires after a certain period of time um we're entitled to Grant an extension to that time period And so to the extent that anyone has concerns about extending the time period then we should have that discussion to the extent that everybody feels that the extension's okay uh that we don't need to do anything more than just uh take a vote with regard to the extension we just amplify for purposes of the record that the original approval was granted in February 4 2021 the request that we have to Sandy was June 1st 2023 for an extension of the February 4 excuse me first granted February 4 2021 and extension was granted June 2nd 2022 uh nun fancy Latin for this for then um they moved it back because I think you would pass the time to do those things but as we Mr done the request as I said now was made June 1st 2023 the only difficulty that I have and I I think your ordinance says that you can only Grant an extension for one year that doesn't mean that you can't come back for another extension we encourage you if you're going to do that to do that before that year has lapsed and I think I don't think there's any reason why the board even though the request was made in June of 2023 while you can't make it effective as of this date which will'll also give you sometime yeah as a practical matter the 18 month you were looking for was going to begin when the old um time period lapsed so effectively you would have uh an additional 12 months from like like January so to January 25 effectively so so you think procedurally the request should be to Grant the extension from today's date uh washing the time that elaps to to line up with your the language is fairly fairly succinct that in a sense it the variance relief and that's what you're really concerned with the variance Rel vanishes after that time period but the board only has the ability to Grant it for a oneyear period okay anybody have questions or want to have some discussion with regard to the the situation why we would or why we wouldn't want to Grant the extension saying nothing but puzzle bucks does anybody want to make no I'll make a motion to extend I see given the fact that there's no extenda or no uh change to the plan that was submitted um and everything's still in situe I don't think there's any reason why we wouldn't be able to Grant this so I'll make a motion to Grant the extension for 12 months starting as of this dat I'll second it does it matter if you for that's a d question I'm sorry that's a good question does it matter if you voted for the resolution or not or against um I honestly don't no I I don't think it matters at this point in time for the extension I think that would be different with regard to the original approval but I don't think to the extension it I I I would think if there was a reason for a recusal you may want to recuse yourself to the that if you have a confence but otherwise I think it's simply procedural all right so we've got a got a motion we've got a second any further discussion roll call when you're ready Mr yes mangelo yes Mr yes Mr Forte yes Dr Walker yes Mr chetti yes yes [Music] okay okay uh we are ready for Mad 550 River Road testify thinky may have something to [Music] testify before you start testifying your name speaking permission I have addition exhibits tomor please do thank you um we have received the Insight update in response to the engineers comments the cover letter uh January 18 inclusive and I'll mark this is a15 inclusive of the inside revised drawings um revised to January 17 2024 consisting of eight sheets in addition the have um several documents relating to well I'll just Mark the I just Mark the fair the Zoning Board of adjustment December 17 1963 resolution of approval as Zing uh zoning board three on the mar Mama County development Review Committee report dated um look say I'll give it or received by by their office on November 11 2023 and the action taken on December 11 2023 Mark that as leing zoning board 11 going to Mark the4 cv4 yes thank you going to Mark uh the very comprehensive uh planners report dated January 23 2024 as ZB zoning board 5 to Mark the uh CME January 31 2024 uh third engineering thew letter over the signature of Rizzo for March that as zoning board six um don't know if you have any other exhibits that you want to um yes I have a series of um updates I've Got U A Google Earth with the uh superimposed devised site layout we're going to call that um a16 that's uh prepared by Insight engineering and February 1 2024 P 16 any other exhibit bch is gonna pass that around while great yes um I have a smaller scale version of a16 which is called neighborhood exhibit the a 17 a 17 neighborhood ex that's those rounds I also have a series of and uh these will be maybe we'll hold on these just because um they are smaller versions of plans prepared by Anderson Campanella the architecturals pl elevations etc those haven't been marked yet so we can hold on that but at this time good with exhibiton you're good with exhibits good with exhibits for the moment yes jar so Dr I'd like to I'd like to allow you to indulge me because I've had an opportunity to kind of reflect on the last hearing and kind of where we started and kind of where we went we we had an opportunity to speak about the site we had an opportunity to hear from some of the residents it occurs to me that the way that at least I you this application um is that we have a 1968 resolution to put a Commercial Bank in what was and is a residential Zone you have an approval you have the right to use and occupy as a bank to the extent that the applicant was coming in tonight and asking simply to change the use it would seem to me that we could have a discussion about the change in the use and it would really start with whether or not we're in compliance with the 68 resolution today whether or not it's currently or whether or not there's going to be an agreement that we will be in compliance the issues that we lead into with regard to the lighting with regard to the parking and restriping and how we're going to deal with entrances and the exits they are in my mind secondary to the fundamental issue of adapting this property for reuse through the opportunity to expand the condition of the resolution that this was going to be used only as a bank there are site layout issues clearly this was designed in order to accommodate the requirement for stacking in relation to drive-throughs but what I found in and kind of where we wound up last time particularly with the neighbors interests and understanding how this is all going to go down it it it it has the potential in my mind to complicate what I think is the the Paramount issue which is the the the change of use in light of the fact that this is an existing facility that is built it is commercial it has been in existence at least it has been permitted for 65 years yes and the newer standards I think all need to be discussed and I I'm sure that there are things that you're proposing to do that would make sense and the board's going to want to hear about I know that we have good planners reports now and we've had multiple sets of plans that have been reviewed but I wanted to encourage you to at least consider starting with something related to what you have today and having some discussion about what the new users are going to be or proposed to be relative to the zoning standards relating to parking and other things and how the site accommodates that so that we try and get that kind of at least understood um I know that there's proposal for a second user um which may you know may weigh on discussions about the striping and the parking and some of those other things things but I I I just at least wanted to start by sharing with you what my thoughts were um so that you could consider um at least at least considering you know working through this in that minut thank you and I appreciate that ladies and gentlemen mark aens on behalf of the applicant good evening nice to see you all um we were last here I think on December 7th memory Serv me right um and yes we had talked through and identified that um the purpose here was to provide a less intense significantly less intense adaptive reuse of this property that has been a commercial property for six decades for more than six decades absolutely and so we were trying to formulate uh some of the site details based upon the neighbors comments which I think was a good place to start because we've got a 60-year old site plan right um and uh I agree we don't want to get too mired into site details uh but we also wanted to um have the opportunity to incorporate those comments which which Mr fiter has done in his plans so what I was going to do this evening was I was going to take just a couple of minutes literally a couple of minutes have Mr tell you what he's revised as as is reflected in in his plan starting with a15 uh then bring up um Mr Duffy who's one of the principles of the applicant and who will be the Principal tenant in fact a little bit of an update the uh second floor tenant that we had contemplated um also making a presentation will not be proceeding to lease that space so it's more likely to be a suas um through Mr Duffy who's going to take the entire building at this point so his testimony will be very important I think for the board's consideration this evening so a little bit of an update there that I was going to leave us to so if we could have two minutes just to have to fixure review that um I have some beautiful architecturals to review and floor plans but maybe that makes more sense in the context of understanding what's going to go what's proposed to go on with this less intense adaptive reuse of this 60-year-old commercial use right because if we if we want just want to tear it down and make residential lots we don't need to be here right and I don't think anybody's proposing that so Mr fer I remind you you're under wonder if you can take a moment and just update the board one second sure please if we don't know what's going to be on the second floor of the building is that something that would have to come back for another discussion of the use so the the approval that's in place was for a single user as a bank the applicant is originally proposed two tenants first floor second floor it sounds like the applicant is now proposing to have the ability to bring in a second tenant and they're going to explain to you why they think that that's reasonable but the the the decision will be weighed based on you know all the various issues that that come out and the use and parking and all the other things so I think the proposal is that they would have the right to bring two TS on into the space okay uh I'm just asking because we're here to talk about a new use for the property and part of that we don't know what it would be two tenants of that type of use so if the second tenant comes in so it would have to be the same type of business it's a completely different use with different parking requirements things like that would have to be reconsidered question thank you wait a minute so Mr Rens what you said was that the the upstairs tenant would be a subtenant of the Prime tenant but the old the former second tenant was a similar use but are you proposing in fact two users of the same category and and a discussion about the usage it could be an it could be an expansion of Mr Duffy's business or we' like to reserve the right to have a an independent subtenant of Mr Duffy for the second floor which would be a complimentary use that's what's anticipated I think the question from the from the board is how will they know how that may impact parking I mean depending on what your use is on the second floor right well let's I can get you there through Mr duy if you'll if you'll give me the opportunity very good we should see good yeah sorry yeah no problem okay all right here we go so um we made some revisions to the plan that that um we resubmitted to you and those revisions are all related to the discussion that we had in December when we were here so I'll just take those off for you briefly the first is we show on the revised plans ground mounted up lights for both the flag hole and the freestanding sign in front of the building we reduced the driveway with we call it the Eastern driveway on River Road so as you're looking at the plan it's the one on the right of River Road we reduce the width of that driveway by 14.6 feet which brings it down now to 32.25 Ft wide and that width was established as the minimum to accommodate a vehicle exiting the Ada's base it improves the streetscape makes a safer driveway and it reduces the impervious on the property as far as the impervious goes the existing lot today is 71.6% our original plan brought that down to 70.7 and then by narrowing the driveway we're down even further to 68.9 we also changed the dimension of the parallel parking spaces uh the first parallel parking space on the Revis plan so that would be um I'll call it the Eastern parallel parking space or planed right parallel parking space that is 7 by8 if you recall on the prior plan the the parallel spaces were 7 by 22 the request was to widen them to 8 by 22 so we did that with the other parallel spaces but the eastern most parallel space is only 18 ft long because it's not really a parallel space you can pull straight into it and we left it at 7 ft because that allows adequate aisle width for the other nine spaces facing River Road uh to function in accordance with your ordinance the other three uh as I said the other three spaces are 8 by 22 uh and that's what we discussed last month we're still providing the same number of parking spaces and the parking requirement did not change because the building hasn't changed there is um square footage on the second floor the architect will give us a square footage it's it's I think it's just shy of 450 square feet that is not usable due to Mechanicals so that if we were to just hypothetically bear with me here if we were to remove that mechanical space from the parking calculation we would require 16.3 parking spaces which I believe by your ordinance would mean 17 um but your ordinance uh doesn't really do that so that's why our plan say that 19 are required we counted that mechanical space you'll hear more about that from the architect about how that space is completely unusable so I'm not necessarily saying that we should eliminate it from the calculation it's more support of the variance where where is the um where does the number come from does it come from his specific type of use or does it come from the Zone um where's the number calc Park calculation is the use out of your orance it was like Studio F fitness studio and is there in in contemplating what might go upstairs is there is there a single standard regardless of use do they do they vary widely we know you're not going to be a bank but if there was a a lawyer's office there would the parking would the parking be lesser would be the same so what we did as as Mr aens alluded to um the intention is to make what the applicate will call a Health and Wellness Center you know hence Mr Duffy and a complimentary use but they also would like to just in terms of their would like to fill the building obviously so they wanted to leave the door open for professional office which is also permitted in the B1 I'll get into more of that in planning but it's not B1 I know it's not B1 I I'm GNA I'll tie all that together for you when I go through planing but in terms of B1 the studio and the U professional office would be permitted so they wanted to leave the door open to that so on our plans in the parking chart we list um the studio and we list professional Office Professional office parking demand is actually less than in the studio so if it was the flipflop between the two we were hoping that if you did see fit to approve that the door would be open to both again the opin goals to make this health and wellness they just wanted to leave the door open for small office space and you'll see when the arch goes through the floor plans if if there's offer space here it's going to be very small Mr D is taking the bulk of the area purp of clarification is it your testimony that barking requirement is based upon specific use and there's not an alternate calculation based upon total square footage so the parking calculation is based on square footage depending on the use so what we did is we evaluated both the studio and the office the studio is more intensive so that c that's the number we use if for some reason a professional office user wanted to take space here and and you were to approve that the parking demand would actually go down so the approval could could hold and support just to clarify for the board the the use is pretty General it's studio um but the ordinance calls it Studio Dart music dance gymnastics for the purpose of giving instruction and that's one PR 200 and Mr F's Point office is four spaces per 1,000 so one for 250 so you're right it would go down the parking requir would go down for all Jordan what I want to understand is what what's the range what what's the smallest amount of parking required for a commercial user and what's the largest and I'm just trying to understand how much it could deviate to the extent that the applicant is requesting some flexibility and I understand that Mr Fisker is talking about two specific types of use but I'm trying to get some context for for what that the the studio use which again is a little general but that's 16 spaces required um the office use would require 14.75 so we'll round that off 15 so it's one last virtually the same so other users in the commercial Zone do they fall within those brackets do I have a high and a low there or are there other us I'm so I'm sorry interrup 19 spaces is required for The Studio 16 or proposed the office would be 15 so it's reduction four which is the difference of complying versus non complying the document sa personal fitness studio is that not delineated under this I think it's less General um especially because it says for the purpose of giving instruction and I that that that that's best fits so personal fitness isn't a real thing of itself it's just how it's okay we're going to provide testimony from Mr Duffy as to the very personal nature of the instruction so this is not just a gym that you go to and you're you'll see from his testimony you'll hear from his testimony that it's personalized one-on-one instruction which will then support the part determination that Mr Fisher has positive Jordan how many how many handicap parking spaces have one for 25 one even for a qu rehab institution yeah I didn't have anything further Mr Bish well I got I got more changes okay you want finish okay another thing that came up at the last hearing that's been added to the plans is we Show Site triangles at both River Road driveways and they prove to provide adequate site distance we were also requested to eliminate a light pole in the middle of the parking lot along River Road which we did and also add in the existing street lights that are out there and we did that so that's been a um the fence there was some discussion about the fence along the southern or rear property line um we put a note on the planet that fence will be replaced with a six foot tall wood Stockade Fence which is essentially what's there so it'll be a new PL uh stable fence there um is the fence now is is it now on the proper boundary line because it looks like before I think we talked about there's a little bit of a Gore here survey from where it was to where it should be like the line deviates from yeah the fence was on the applicant's property but there there is that one spot I think we talked about with a property line jobs that it's much on the app's property at least none of it's on a neighbor's property right but yeah the intention was to follow that same line okay um all right there was a comment from a neighbor about lights in the western drive-thru uh so we show on the plans that those are going to be removed and replaced with down lights but that's really um on a portion of the building that goes over top of the driveway so that's an architectural thing those lights will be on your architectural plans but we made a note on the site plan remove the existing lights and replace them with new down lights to protect that neighbor we added a note on sheet c600 that lights are to be turned off one hour after business and also from uh 8:00 p.m. to 5:00 a.m. the lights would be off we added some detail on the freestanding sign detail and she see 700 shows dimensions of the sh sign also shows dimensions of the letters and then to another neighbor's comment we supplemented um the existing vegetation at the sou cor of the property which is adjacent to one of our neighbors we added three Evergreen strubs oops if you look at I forget what exhibit this is a16 a16 bottom left corner of the property or cell West corner of the property we'll see three proposed ever Tru there so those were the changes that we made to the plan in response to uh last hearing's discussion from the board and from the public Mr F can I just clarify one thing for the the board here you mentioned your a reduction in prvious coverage to a new proposed total 68.9 68.9% correct um on your site plan which should be called a15 uh you show additional conrete sidewalk being removed in the northwest corner of the building it's shown on a16 as remaining at sidewalk I just want to clarify after you're removing the sidewalk that is coming out yes good catch so that plus the driveway gets you down to the 68.9 that's right thank you and then the three shrubs you're proposing in Southwest corer uh will you agree to remove the existing bench that's there yes okay thank you so I want to ask about the 68 Revolution because defense is required by the 68 Revolution and so you you've noted your plans that you're going to replace it but to me this starts with being in compliance with 68 resolution so what what I would have assumed would have been that there would have been a stipulation that all of those conditions are going to be satisfied they're going to be checked and they're going to all be brought up to date to the extent that they're not in compliance one of the issues in that resolution for example was that the entire parking lot was going to be pitched to River Road as I recall uh which is a significant issue given the problems that we have with flooding andth for but the fact that you separately identifi the fence am I misunderstanding what you would expect to do with the 68 resolution with regard to compliance with those conditions well no I think it's an update of that 60y old 65y old condition 56 yeah 56 well well that's because the resolution says that defense is supposed to be installed the resolution says defense is supposed to be installed and maintained yes it it's certainly not currently maintained so the proposal is to put a do in it right and I'm wondering about the stuff that you didn't mention I'm wondering whether or not you are you are planning to make sure that you comply with those things or whether or not we need to make sure that we've reviewed it for those issues and talk about that's that's why I'm asking if we want to go through the conditions of that resolution happy to do that didn't sound like that was the direction you want us to go and you want more us to the use use but if you want to talk about those conditions that's perfectly fine I I actually would just prefer that there be a stipulation that all the conditions of the 68 resolution would be satisfied and that you tell us to the extent that you won't for example your Landscaping may be different so it it may well be that there are logical things that you want to change but I'm I'm worried about chasing things that were supposed to be maintained a certain way when it was originally agreed that this could be built well it catches us at a little bit of a disadvantage right because if you say well it's supposed to drain this way and it's existed 60 years and it drains differently obviously the intention isn't to repitch the entire parking lot here right tear up the parking lot and repitch it okay um but it was important when the approval was granted that the water not go backwards and so maybe there's another way that that can be accommodated when I asked Mr Fister last time he told me he didn't know if it was pitched properly or not and I'm not asking you whether you know today but I I am sure that when in 1968 the approval was granted it was important and I'm having trouble starting with a concept that anything that's fallen out of the way it was supposed to be should be allowed to to remain in consistent with what it was supposed to be one thing I said last time we were here when I was asked about the drainage through somebody asked a question might have been you does the property drains South towards Colonial Court and I said it can't because there's a curve back there so it can't go that way okay so I I don't know how everybody else feels we can just wait until the end but but just know that I feel fairly strongly that this was built based on a certain agreement that certain things were going to be done and if we're building off of that that's absolutely fine but it's certainly important to me that either we're satisfying those original conditions or there's a specific reason that we're not that makes more sense today um to the extent that the board's granting an approve I I do think it's fair and I ask Mr kovat to app on this that if there was a CFO that was issued I presume resolution compliance would have been achieved at that time now maybe fences have fallen in disrepair but I presume the fundamental conditions that were attached to the original resolution 56 years ago know achiev order don't want to assume that I'm not I'm not assuming it I'm I'm just saying I'm just I'm just saying that that's a fair presumption now we can drill down and go through I have no I have no issue going through it Point by point but I also ask the board to take judicial notice that when a CFO was issued for this building that it could not have been issued under anyone's codes especially Fair Haven codes without achieving resolution compliance back in that day I would I would agree on general principles without having seen the issuance of the sometimes you get Temporaries that get lost and the win I it it may be beneficial for the parties just to Simply go through and I think you did get a c of resolution right highlight the conditions I mean some of them are probably not going to be applicable some of may be app some may be in maybe we can save that for last that would discuss to have that may the wouldn't that be a favorable discussion to have if we need to address that that would be wonderful no it definitely would I just one other thing right so the people that lived on Colonial appealed this right and I don't know if anyone else saw they appealed this and it the main thrust as they put in here of the appeal was the grading and the drainage so that's the only reason this is such a it's a hot button isue right there essentially half the block of colonial at the time came before the board appeal this decision specifically because of the DFT what what do you what do you mean by appeal you mean came to the hearing and objected or you filed a case to overturn the approval so on December 17th recommendation of the Zoning Board of adjustment to the mayor and Council bar fan the appeal of Edgar o Von Garen Caroline V Garen l 10 BL 33 Burton theis Virginia theis John theis they they appealed to the council yeah correct yeah to overturn the approval Al together to uh denying the public deal was made to the zoning board to the decision of the building inspector denying the application as being in violation and then the way I read that was that that was the appeal of the zoning officers denial which resulted in the December 17 1968 resolution tocl the conditions numbering read differently numbering one through through okay 17 dealing with everything from okay my apologies but it does say here that and think that was the term of art at that point in time was the appeal of the zoning officers okay and within those 7 condition you dealt with fence you deal with fight with lighting you dealt L signage that's right it's a fair reading what was presented to you but I I think May ter of water I'm looking at the existing topography on the plans the division two plant most current not that existing change but I'm looking on there and Jordan feel free to you see something different but it looks to me that the graves generally pitch towards River Road it's a relatively flat site you know we're splitting hairs but it does generally uh all the pavement slopes toward River Road little bit to Smith which is always the case with a driveway um not much goes to Smith and then it heads off uh West and North to River Road there's a high point behind the bank in the Drive-Thru so the the water will run off left and right on the plan and then get out to River [Music] Road just so it's clear I I I have not been asking for you to prove it tonight what I've been asking is to get an understanding of whether or not it would be reasonable to expect that the 68 resolution would be satisfied to the extent that it is ined I don't want there to be confusion about what I was suggesting um I totally understand if you don't know the answer to some of the questions fair enough certainly I would hope there' be time after conclusion to be able to go through those each and every once to remove any ambiguity anything else no I'm good thank you thank you applicant calls Mike du see come on up my name is Mike Duffy last name is spelled D U FF y Mr Duffy if you can take a moment tell the board a little bit about um your personal background your business and your vision for this facility at 550 River Road um I currently operate two personal training centers um personal training centers aren't regular GS um it's 101 instruction we have vual TRS that work with the clients oneon-one um all appointments um all sessions done by appointment only um clients are not allowed in facility unless 7 point was a trainer have to be supervised by a trainer so if we have three clients in facility it be three trainers work with them one on one and receptions um it's very private business very similar to a oneone physical therapy um and that's the nature of the business that I would like to put in this location um my intent is to move my location from little silver which has been there for 15 years into this building because I can be part owner of the building and I'm renting little silver prer to own the real estate that I have a business in what would your days and hours of operation be we're open seven days a week um Monday through Friday the hours of operation are 5:00 am. to 7: PM although Friday we close closer to 5m uh Saturday and Sunday is are open from 7:00 am to 1 pm those the hours of operation okay and how many employees would you anticipate having uh let's start with the first floor so um the M employees we have at our current facility are two full-time employees personal trainers four part-time personal trainers and for administrative um workers who run the front desk um those are all part-time positions so I let's let's take my my situation so for example I want I'm not I I want to increase my physique and 200 pounds isn't enough and I really want to get beefed up what do I do walk me through the process for me to become a client of yours and once I am a client what am I looking at when I walk through your doors at 55 to refer so um first you come out fill out an application um you go through your medical um you walk through your goals and your previous work history and then um we design a program to help you get your goal um and then I give you to a trainer and give them the program and it would take you through it two hours a week where they would just hand you the weights so ex do make sure you're doing prop War um stretch you before and after the workout that's basically it very now you said two hours a week does that mean I come in for two one hour sessions or one two hour session no two hour either half hour 30 minute 60 Minute appointment so that's the extent of my of my exercise session yes okay and if I just want to show up if I had an if I had a great lift on Monday and I want to come back on Tuesday but I don't have an appointment what happens then you well you can't Comm appointment I can't commit with that you call up and say like appointment say if I can have a train available I have for but that really wasn't Happ to often okay so it's purely by appointment and how many at one time say in an hour how many trainers would you have in so um currently based on last year's numbers um for 2023 we run about 401 average sessions per month which comes out to about 13 a day at any one given hour the most people uh most trainers are had on any given one hour would be four trainers at one hour um maybe once a day that doesn't happen to often yeah that's what I'm trying to get a feel for the amount of parking that's going to be used at any time and people coming and going so we got four trainers four clients to take yes P that's nine people um that's like the heaviest load I would say throughout the day um but again we're averaging like 13 visits today so under no circumstances can I come in and work out even if I had a trainer previously under no circumstances can I come in and work out without having an appointment not at all the size is not big enough to allow people to do that um for us a smaller facility for our business bottle is much better um as opposed to trying to get a US place and shove as many people as possible um that business model has been developed over your 15 years yeah I've been yeah I've been a little so 15 years the location another location Ocean Township where I've been 26 years um and that's been our model it works really well for us um it's priced and order to to keep it that way we keep away from like High voline and um just trying to keep shov people in doors um our prices are much different than a regular gym a regular gym which uh based on volume runs anywhere from $10 a month to $50 a month um our average memberships runs around $640 per month um so there's fewer people who want to pay that price and come to work with us is it fair to say these are people who are very committed to a disciplined form of exercise without a doubt they're you know at those rates people are very serious about what they're doing I can imagine okay um how about um is a microphone used or loud music or what you know that's always a concern for neighbors and obviously everybody here so tell us about that aspect of your business Mr we don't use microphones and the music is not played loud the music's not the key to the business it's more private setting one onone you want to be able to hear the conversations that you working you know trainers and clients um most of our clients are average your clients like 50 55 but they up they're a little older and I really appreciate the loud music um that's the music situation that we use can the trainer deal with multiple clients at the same time um right now our business model 90% of what we do is one-on-one um we have a small percentage where there might be two people with one client at one time that might be about three to 5% of our business tell the board if you would please Mr Duffy what you you might uh be able to utilize the second floor for relative to what you've just described happening on the first book um so I told my partner Andrew that um since we lost person who instent leasing from us um that I would like to expand upstairs in the future not right away because this is a big move for us we're going from a 1500 s foot facility a little sober to 2500 foot on the bound FL this building um our rent will be a little higher and I didn't want to U they stress on the business to take that extra space upstairs however um I would hope that the business would grow and be able to use that upstairs um to more equipment in and different types of training sorry can you repeat that again the facility you're now right now in little so about, 1500 square foot and yeah total and then we're moving into this space which is 2500 um if you've been in our facility little silver very crowded very little space in between equipment and this allows us to be a little more space in between equipment and again to be part own building not a renter thank you Mr Duffy chairman board members no further questions Mr Duffy Mr Duffy I so I assume there's no activities outside um I think on nice days there may might be a trainer who'll take the car outside to run um or do some work in parking lot um but it's not a huge Focus what outside I'm sorry I missed it okay there's no equipment outside that our locations so what sort of things would be done if you're running you would run from the facility around the block yeah it'd be on the sidewalk around the block um so would the would the parking lot be used for anything in particular no not okay we have parking lot um and little silver now which in the front not at all but again you know sometimes a nice day take somebody outside put not on the ground having do push-ups or situps and things like that just to take advantage of a nice weather but again it doesn't happen that all so Mr the The Proposal with regard to the parking spaces is assuming it's all Studio I think is what the what the category right that would be the most intensive yes so 19 spaces is required for the 2500 foot first door plus the use of the second story for the same use by the same single us would the parking requirements change if there were two separate tenants versus one tenant using the same amount of square foot no if anything it would go down if it were just a professional office open the site the parking requirements are go down if it's a different use because what I'm assuming is if there's a different tenant that even though the calculations for the space might be different than Mr Duffy's explanation of how he's going to use the space for example certainly not going to have a second perception because you've got somebody shooting upstairs um you you'll see chairman pardon me from again when we bring up Mr Anderson and he testifies you'll see there's a second separate there's a separate entrance for the second floor so that would be that would be preserved if we're talking about potentially an office a less intense use at that 1 to 250 standard then you know and you'll hear as to the square footage I think we're basically talking about a single person upstairs if it's an office use does that second entrance currently exists Mr a uh I believe it exists but I also believe it's it's uh you can access the first floor through that second entrance it it seems to me and we we can dive into it more I have Mr Anderson answer the question it it seems to me that if if Mr Duffy uses the whole thing that the intensity of the use with regard to parking is one thing if there's a second tenant using upstairs that it is it is logical to me that the parking would be more intensively used as a result of it being a second time um I I want to ask a question specifically about Mr Duffy's testimonies that he's going to use it because my guess is that you're not looking for the board to approve Mr Duffy but rather for this site to be used for a studio which would probably include people doing it Mr different than Mr Duffy and it would be more intensive so for example we just throw gym equipment in there and we treat it like the purple and yellow Place whatever that thing is is that correct no I don't think that we're seeking it quite as broadly Mr Duff is going to be an owner of the facility so he's not merely just a tenant and a user he's a c owner so so then the idea is you're looking for approval for Mr Duffy's use specifically that's that's correct with regard to the first floor and then reserving the right to have perhaps an office a less intense parking requirement in the event that he decides as he testified not to pursue use of the second FL okay so then the theoretically it's possible that the board is being asked to commit to a single user in perpetuity so that the the the property owner would need to come back to change the first floor tenant from Mr Duffy but flexibility on the second floor to use the building with multiple tenants within a particular category that that's what you're asking since there's a parking variance associated with this use it seems to me that unless there were a comparable or virtually identical use right if you you had said well what if you what if you change it it becomes more gym likee in terms of a user that's a fundamental change right but if Mark aens decides he wants to run a Mike Duffy type Studio it seems to me that's more apples to apples and I don't think that Mark Ain should be precluded from doing that as long as those numbers and the parking and the requirements that we're talking about here are met in that instance a question for Jordan Jordan our definition is Studio which encompasses quite a few things would that cover if somebody wanted to come in and just say I want to run a dance studio to again now um so then we would have to be extremely specific should the board see to hit the grant grant of the variant only for this specific purpose and not for a studio purpose yeah it says studio and then it gives a few examples but I think the intent is that could expand which be more intense than than this than nine maximum people yeah Mr I think I think what you what you told me you wanted but I had to parse it is that you want the ability to swap out the tant as long as it's the same type of T and no more intense particularly because we have I think it's only reasonable because we have a parking variance I don't I don't think that that's an easy thing to do it may be easy to say but Mr Duffy's business in Little Silver is one that a lot of people are familiar with he describes it as something somewhat unique and so when you started your gym I'm not exactly sure or how exactly we would direct the zoning officer to evaluate whether or not your gym is going to be the same as Mr Ducky's I'm just trying to understand the wait to give Mr Duffy's testimony with regard to the parking because you'll remember there is some serious concern as to whether or not the uh parallel spaces are really spaces and whether or not you're going to be able to accommodate the parking needs of the upstairs tenant there's there's pressure on this site for very specific things and I want to be sure I understand what you're asking for if it's generic as to the use I think it would be very hard for the board to to limit Mr Duffy's use versus another type of Studio that would otherwise be committed and I think it factors into the way you look at the part fair enough but it's not my comment's not directed or intended to be generic as to the use it's tended to it's intended to be comparable as to the use right if we're talking about Studio what if my program actually is a dance studio that my sister-in-law but the but the numbers are the same it's one onone it's two employees it's 13 people per day it's 400 some odd per month but we don't we don't have that category so the category that you're fitting into requires a certain amount of parking and it certainly could be more intensive than what Mr Duffy's describing I'm just trying to make sure that we're properly assessing what the needs are going to be and if it's specific to Mr Duffy it seems to me it's one thing and if it's generic and could be other people that are otherwise permitted within that zone then it's something different that's all it's all I'm asking it might also affect the noise differences I I would imagine if a studio could be dance or you know that would have much louder noise coming than what Mr Duffy described so and what's to stop a class being held for 30 people with one or uh under the under the GU of Studio well it would be the restrictions that are set forth in any resolution of approval doctor those conditions Mr Duffy there's a building at the uh a little square building at the Western portion of the property which is uh just to the west of the of the Portico uh what's the plan for that set the drive on the right yeah they'll have a plan for that um anything an office or something something much you can do it's a very small space yeah I was just wondering what what you would do with that would you rent that out would you I used to be just a teller sitting in there so it's kind of I know if anybody want in there use it for storage in office or something but there is some modification we talk about this last time some modification to that area for an employee a door right there was something there it's being removed no no change so there's there's a door being removed on the front of the so Mr Anderson's going to walk us through plans I think that you've explicitly requested the right to have um a second tenant upstairs and you have not requested the right to have a third tenant in this area no this would be ancillary to the main use and because it's limited which we're about to see I want to be clear there's no third tenant for public and also having had a a brief conference with Mr Anderson sidebar I want to make sure that that even though I've tried to um give the board sufficient comfort that an Apples to Apples comparison on a future Studio use would be appropriate I'll I'll withdraw that and just say this is for Mike Duffy's Studio as you've heard his testimony just so we're clear make it easier I particularly think it makes it easier for the board to try and understand how the Second Story and I thank you chair thank you board members thank you Mr Anders anything further Mr Mr I have a couple questions are you familiar with Insight plan how it shows two parking spaces um one is strikes in the rear of the building and the other one is by the drive through could we use your plans just while this is [Music] a there's one space which is not going to be striped it's correct and then there's a second space so a few questions I guess what would be the relationship a for assuming you have the whole building B if you have a tenant with who parks there um my concern is if someone parks in the the back space and starts pulling forward and doesn't realiz pared in the side space and have to reverse all the way back parking L and then the second question is would youate that you only provide two part there you wouldn't stack the entire driver yeah you're not going to stack from river [Music] that I think there's a sign on there is that yes so one and two but the intention is not to St there just one and two to figure that out chair i' recommend that as a condition of any approval that the uh the spaces on the side and rear of the building be limited to what's shown on the plan is two total as opposed to um the ability to stack the entire row was there any consideration given this is probably a little far out to having the entrance and reconfiguring the entrance be that old drive-thru on the western side coming that way it would increase the utility of the parallel spaces against the fence at least your drivers would be on the right side of the parking lot and the flow of traffic would go through now you'd lose those two spaces behind the building Mr Anderson yeah that's I'd like you to clarify whatever little discussion you just had because we can't see what you were pointing at I'd like to be sure that I understand what what exactly you talked about and what stipulation sure on the site layout plan of a15 which is the latest inite plan uh it shows two individual apartment spaces they're both numbered the one one is on the left side of the building the west side that's not going to be a striped space that's just for graphical purposes only saying that one car will park there the other one is a 9 by 18 space that will be stried in the rear of the building and the intent with that space is that a CO apartment there would back up um into the park and not to the east my suggestion as a condition of any approval would be that the operator doesn't have the ability or doesn't Park the entire Western Southern aisle with cars if they they have a surplus um especially as it relates to the neighbors um you're saying just fill it up like a horseshoe basically we don't we don't want that happening is there going to be any signage to prevent your customers from yeah ping into that portion yes the plan say driveway for employee parking only yes how does the how does the person in the western most parking space get out if they if there is a second person park behind the building I so I had requested um a vehicle circulation plan which hasn't been provided yet but it would be provided as part of compliance would you have to back out onto River Road um You probably back out far enough beyond the the Ada space and then have to make a turn from there it's a pretty far maneuver um so I I signed for employees I would guess that employees probably do that once per day as opposed to um L doing that multiple times so so this may this may be from Mr Fisker so the the design is that you're driving in off a River Road you're coming in underneath the the drive-thru and you're parking just past the the the four door or whatever the second space around that's that's an exit driveway so then that this is exit so this car needs to get here first to the West they drive through park there they're ready to exit River Road direct head on and the second space filled second somebody's turning around towards the second drive-thru and then back in behind the building that's why I asked what the relationship will be with who's parking there so the the person who's parked behind the building doesn't drive forward and yeah then get drafted and has even further reverse my issue so so so my issue it starts with reuse right so it's recognized by me and I trust others that we're trying to do as as as much as we can on this site and I think that we can talk about it and stripe it but the Practical reality of it is different and how it's going to be used has no relationship with what we're talking about tonight it's going to be used in the way that it functions and works for everybody I I'm what what I really want to try and understand and certainly get to is how many of these spaces are really going to be used sure because what you've got is you got people coming in and out potentially every half hour at least one maybe two people and I assume that those trainers are popping in and out or are they working for a whole day somebody working eight hours two trainers that work full day so so you don't have the different trainers coming in with their different clients those would be the parttime the four part-timers they would come in there's like a morning parttime an evening parttime but for the two our two employees that come early in morning they're there five or six and then it's there all day until the day's done I had a question for Mr pitcher Mr pitcher this parking space here which way is the vehicle face does it face West or does it face East on A5 it faces West okay so so it doesn't it doesn't back into the space it pulls into the space pulls into the space and backs out practically how does that happen does the first employee drives all the way through to the first space and the second employee to arrive parks in that space that's right that's that that is controlled by nature of the tenants communicating with each other they'll figure out a process of who gets to use what there's no customers there's no question it's it's the daily users that figure that out I I totally buy that that's doable by the way I mean I I I do think that that's how it's going to get used but when they but but when you stack other cars s the other cars along this fence along the southernly line we stipulate not to do that no I think he's talking about um the parallel space for oh I beg your pardon I thought you met in the in the uh in I think the bank used it in a similar fashion as a matter of fact they would put more than two cars behind there if I'm not mistaken but did the back have the parallel spaces along the southernly line no they didn't they might have existed and nobody ever used also had to good use of space even if they did it yeah resolution said that there were 12 spaces required the plan shows eight so there might have been parallel spaces but the the employees to park off 22 spaces offsite right it was a very very different idea we we haven't gone there but but but let's go there now 12 spaces were required right and and where are they on this plan there's there's eight existing eight are the angle in facing River Road yeah okay they very well could have counted four parallel stac on that fence they could have yeah they could have reach striped orated many times the the problem with that is that with the fence the way it is right at the curse and people are driving in you've got the driver's side to the fence so it's not it's not happening you know people are if they're going to do it they're going to do what everybody else did today at the shopping center they're going to park as far away from it as possible so that they can get their car door open without getting their car scuffed up and then that's going to create an issue with people when they're backing out we don't need that many spaces because Mr Duffy has shared with us he really needs very limited parking I don't want to stripe it and try and set it up in an unreasonable way I I realize we're trying to accommodate what the ordinances required I'm just trying as a practical matter to understand what's really going to happen and do the best we possibly can to set it up in a way that it's going to function and and and then I think that that that leads into whether or not that second user upstairs make sense and whether or not there really is enough parking here for that to be able to work how has the reconfiguration that Mr F here um's here you said that you made accommodations that we had asked about those spaces along the fence and that they were resized or something to that don't how has that improved the the ability for somebody to pull in and actually get out of their cor so a common dimension for parallel spaces is 7 by 22 they vary depending where you are but 7 by 22 is common um that's what we had on the original plan but based on comments from last time the request was to make them 8 feet wide so the revised plans have them 8et wide what's the resulting a way the angled parking and the parallels yeah it's angled and we dimensioned it get it's 18 at the neck but it increases as you go you know Direction here so what so what's required is it rsis we did this with regard to the acne years ago I know if you pull in straight you need more right yes so your ordinance for the angle of those nine spaces along River Road I don't remember chapter and verse but I do remember this based on that angle the aisle width required is 18 ft which is what we have you meet that from one side to the other so remember it's on an angle so there's there's a choke point at the Eastern limit of the first parallel space right that's 18 ft after that as you head West it gets wider and that's because you slim that one spot down from eight to seven right that's correct okay the first spot first spot Mr fer what's the option for parking either on River Road or Smith tree well you know that's one of the things that I'm going to get to in planning you know when you talk about comparing to the 1968 resolution there was an offsite parking component what I believe we've done here is we've created a use in a site that can accommodate all parking on the site thus relieving dependence on public on street parking offsite parking that kind of thing so I saw that as a benefit is there an option to Park on Smith Street I believe there is parking on Smith Street right so sure one side right just closest to the AC Smith can you park the entire block all the way back to the corner of the acne all the way back the right hand side not sure off top of my head and on River Road it's on the far side it's on the North side and they're shown on your plan right yes yeah that's on the area a so let's just be honest that's exactly what's going to happen if you're parking lot that disas no no one's going to want to go into the parking lot if it doesn't work they're going to take any spot on River Road they can they're going to cross the road they're going to park on Smith it's public marking I I suppose that would be consistent with the 68 resolution but you know we're we're trying to make it better and put it all on that site on this site I think designing it in a good way so that it functions is is a design that's been accommodated squeezing it in so we meet the numbers so we get a second tenant upstairs is going to have the opposite effect so I I will tell you this I know this is fair here and I respect that we design a lot of parking lots all over the place this park lot I don't see as tight and crammed and nonfunctioning there are some in Hoboken in those kind of areas that might be a little bit too tight but this I can see functioning how many parking spaces are shown on this plan nine and four and two I think it's 16 including the two 16 that's correct 16 and and you know when you talk about adaptive reuse and existing improvements all that kind of stuff you have to get creative and try and you know fit things where you can as long as they can function I I think we've accomplished that here we had the space we have the circulation we have the driveways I I'm comfortable with it you know we also heard I know about the the mystery user that's your concern um but we heard testimony from Mr Duffy he doesn't think he's going to need all these spaces I advocate to put them all in because I think it's the wise thing to do you have the space if you ever need them accommodated on site I'd rather have them and use them infrequently then not have them and need them once or twice a year I've seen a lot of navigation of small parking lots by SUVs I don't know if anybody's ever parked in Philadelphia Airport it feels like it's strike this way it's absolutely unbelievable put an F-150 in one of these spaces it's going to be hanging out the back but but but that's the it should be designed around that practical reality is my point well I agree with you on airports those are long-term low turnover parking lots they are crammed and and I agree with you and it drives me nuts I feel like I'm going to get a door ding every time I get as an F-150 driver as an F-150 driver that needs a new transmission if you know anybody get not even the door it's not even the door it's manipulating yourself through and around the parking lot because if people don't feel like they can do it they're not going to park you're going to get nine you're going to get nine against against River Road no doubt the question is whether any of the others are usable and the employee spaces are I understand I think it's going to I think that'll work you know if you're you really hung up on it and you would rather not see those four power spaces and for the record I advocate keep them I'd rather have them there and have them used infrequently but as an alternative what you could do is make it two then it's very easy to navigate the to you don't have to squeeze in a parallel space each space has its own access I am focused specifically on the fact that Mr Duffy's testimony and an understanding that you're looking for approval to put Mr Duffy in this space makes sense I get it I see it it's not as intensive as what the ordinance requires it's second tenant upstairs I'm trying to understand yeah it really is but if that second tenant were in office use by definition the requirement would be L I can't focus on we don't know what I can't focus on the Practical reality with regard to Mr Duffy and then take the theoretical with regard to office it I I'm concerned that we don't know who that is not locking in can I not yet we can have a side yeah would you give us five minutes chairman just so I can speak sure of course you want a whole five should we reset for okay that's I know I saw that before as well yeah I didn't even know there was something existed I think I it was new to a bed in the building what's that said a bed in the building it's story it the joke Jordan got it sorry Al I forgot that you had suggested that traffic change no sorry in and out here this is is only and only a certain sequence right remember those tile games you we can do that thank you chair sure thank you okay so just a little bit of an update following discussion with Mr Anderson clarify things so his view of it is Mr duy will have the entire building no Second Use simplifies things no no I I I'm GNA put him on I'm so sorry let me f Andrew Anderson r s o thank you sorry okay for ease so what what I had said to my earlier so I live at 81 on drive so I'm local I own a few buildings in town I currently have my office at 803 River Road so I said while Mike is ramping up until he can occupy the space upstairs I'll move my physic I'm a single user one employee makes it very easy one employee plus you or just one person just me one person one person okay one person and and as it relates to the parking you know for the past I don't know three years the salon across the street has been parking in the lot and they' utilized it exactly like this with the parallel spaces behind and paring in the nine in front so you know we're not going to need them from the intensity standpoint I happen to agree with with Mr fiter that I'd rather have them than not but if it's important to the board and you feel that it's pinched Mr chairman and everyone else then we get rid of it so for how long do you expect to use that as your Ro I'll use it as long as I need until he's ready to occupy So I'll rent out 803 it's very simple for me to do that so for the purposes of understanding the adequacy of parking if you're if you're offering to use it with two people are you suggesting that we consider it as a second user with two people and two cars so that we can get around speculating and focus on what that means sure okay sure and truth be told I'm going to ride my bike 90% of the time I think you said one person one but it'll be it'll be me I occasionally have meetings I'm the only employee but and we're gonna have anv part for that so okay that's office back to Studio okay let me just let me just so that so that the record is clear here we're calling an ownable here so definitely not part of the outline so Mr Anderson what would your hours of operation be if it's your office there uh when would you be there Monday through Friday 9 to 5 days a week 7 to 7 by appointment I mean I come into the office as needed the less I'm in the office the more productive I am so you know but I need I need a base to work out of I need a base to zoom out of and as I said currently it's in3 no assistant no secretary just you no Melissa is a partner in the real estate she would be there occasionally when I need her but no just it's just me I don't have an assistant Mr by the board suggesting that I think I would want to clarify square footage of the second floor I had originally intended to put Mr Anderson on but we wanted to get into this so we'll come back to that your we're reducing the number of paring spaces required Rec bring it to the square foot to the board's attention I'm Ching at the bit to bring it up well it it doesn't it doesn't really change it because just if you go back to Studio use it's going to be the same requirement it the issue is whether it's it's one user or two but explaining if you were to use it as an office what as a practical matter what it is for you I think you're putting context to the question of what what could that V so it's either going to be Duffy using it cons Mr Duffy using it consistent with his program or an office user less intense and that's essentially what it's going to be but they you're not proposing to lock that down the user the way that you proposed to lock Mr Duffy down because you've said that you would use it temporarily and then you would take and and until Duffy grows into it so I think whatever you whatever restrictions are placed upon Him below Harry's upstairs for for his use at that point right but until then it'll be me using it as a single user and just and and for for what it's worth just as a resident so you here I you know I care deeply about the town I care deeply about the aesthetic of the town the businesses in the town I've taken three structures in this town built between 1900 19 24 and and this and have done ation on them as opposed to tear them down when most people thought they were tear Downs Mr Anderson helped me with that and so I just want to make sure that it's not lost on you guys were any of the public we you know my commitment to this town is deep and I also volunteer for the town what are those other um commercial property that that you own so I own 803 River Road what what what's in it how would we know it I don't know I have I have a um little local user who used to be my neighbor on IND street that does 101 Pates in there and she sell like a little app Leisure wear store in there there's a dog rumor in the back that everybody sort of knows little small building next door to box it's right next door to boxwood exactly and element on the first real estate um and that building was built in 1900 and was in pretty significant repair the tenants came to me um requiring nothing aesthetically to be done and I spent quite a bit of money they it it look like something because I live in a town and care about it and you renovated your home on everyone and uh I I had first designed a a new home on riveron and as I with uh J and Felicia and as I sat with it um looking at the bones of the house that we built in 1924 and had sort of been mutilated over the uh previous 40 years I thought that we could bring that back and rather than tearing it down and putting it all in a dump and um we spend quite a bit of time and I spend significantly more money than I would have if I bu new and a couple hearings before this for if memory serves me right it does and um so preservation of structures that exist to the extent that they can be saved is important to me I did it to my house at one of for Lyndon that everybody said was a tear down um so um you know I don't want it to be lost on anyone here that out of town that doesn't care about this because I do um and I certainly appreciate all of your time I know you volunteered here and any of the neighbors who have anything to say and happy to answer anything that's great happy to answer any any comments or questions anyone has I'm here and I'm local no further questions to Mr Anderson chairman good thank you thank you Mr thank you applicant calls James Anderson licensed or not yet good evening Mr Anderson do you any licenses from the state of New Jersey I do and what would that be registered architect here in New Jersey and in campel Architects and rson have been there since 1992 and have had the opportunity to of this board a number of times in the past as well as a number of other municipalities and we've accepted thank you so much before I I start uh in terms of getting marked into evidence I believe I have two exhibits the majority of these are what you already have and have submitted there's two that uh you don't have one is it this existing uh fure a Google uh street view of 5 550 we're going to call that why don't we call why don't we call the color elevation A8 on the right if you would if you'd indulge me okay this is part of the set though that was I know but I'm just trying to Mark I want to Mark these and distribute these to to my madness A8 yeah and this is I'm going to distribute just for our record this is a package of the elevations and the floor plans can I stop there sure because there's one other uh board which is in there which was not in their packet we we could Mark that too this is the streetcape in this package uh the black and white there can you check that sure it is oh it is okay so that is we have another packet of documents a we're going to call this a18 which includes the color elevation this should be a 19 a 19 would be the black and white a that yes yes it is a 18 consists of what documents the colorized elevation the four plans and the balance of the elevation set committed if it's easier for you to look at you know without having to the larger black it's also going to have a19 attached to it which is the black and white Google streen thank you thank you one last one which is sure now that's not part of the distribution I don't okay so that we're going to mark that 820 you describe that for the record yes this is the portion of few photographs of the portion of the second floor that will be remain uh not for H use but for existing mechanical equipment is is going to be retained that so 820 second floor photos for remaining mechanic thank you thank you okay all right Mr Anderson can you please walk the board through the existing conditions on the exterior what we proposed to do on the exterior the existing conditions on the interior what we propos to do on the interior absolutely thank you as Mr as mentioned earlier this is a a really classic situation of adaptive reuse it's it has a building structure of which the prior use has changed and and it's no longer um you know in use there and rather than taking it down a compatible use is being considered to so obviously it has there kind of GRE connotations of of maintaining the existing structure rather than getting rid of it and as Mr Anderson mentioned before he's done that with the other structures that he's um own here and now in terms of the exterior uh changes that modifications that are being made um the building is in really good it was built really well uh it's in really good shape there's been a lot of deferred maintenance um so uh to the left is the the current state [Music] on and on the right on 18 is where it's the proposed um uh modifications to it uh the first one I should mention is that there's a slate roof on it and that's intended to be uh retained and cleaned and repaired as would needed the the second U thing I should mention is that the uh brick veneer exterior will also be retained and repair is needed uh but but a a white wash is supposed to be added over the brick that would allow some of the brick tones to come through but also uh would lighten it and and um make it a little bit more buoyant so little bit of the uh the brick tones but uh just trying to give it a little more Revenue than than what it had before um the uh doors and windows on the buildings would also be repaired uh as needed um and they all be painted in uniform color right now the the wind it's a a mix of the original Windows uh which are white and with the the siling in it and then the newer uh it's referred to as duronotic bronze that they added when they created the vesu uh and the ATM entrance so uh the they would all be painted a uniform warm gray so to to tie the the older and the new together um the um on the existing people on the building um would be uh is supposed to be um restored as well the um wood boards that en closed Val would be taken off and either we really don't know that state that that glasses the sashes up there if it if it's feasable to repaired it would be repaired if not it would be replaced in kind with with new GLS that would match the existing um the existing ATM entrance uh over on the side uh would be removed and I'll you know go further into that when we look at the plans uh but a bank of Windows would be put in that would match the existing uh front windows with the exception the existing front windows are in a slight b shape these are intended to just be a straight plane going across and then uh brick down below and um lastly on the outside prob she mentioned I was talking about the Goa um that there's a proposal to have a um Weather Vein on top with a an osprey on it and that was prothetics and also to uh pull that in as something that talked to you know a local bird here that was a native bird here to the two rivers area so that's where the the Osprey submitted to the ospre pardon me to the are you be raising yeah ra on top the which one the KOA no the koa's remaining the same the um ospray on top is in addition to the coua and it's dimensioned on the elevations in but from existing conditions you're not raising that's correct in fact there's no expansion of the existing bu so the extent you get up there and it's not salvageable you replace it in time that's correct the sash I I believe the KOA structure itself is is is just need some uh uh you know repair to it I think it's in good shape s not so sure is the question is there lighting up in that that's a really good question and I don't think any's intended yeah no let's if it was approved no lighting can you address signage uh I'm going to defer that to uh Mr piter who was working with the signage I think he last time uh talked about it and you he has the drawings and so forth to to to do Dr the revised plans from Mr picture show an insert for the signage we'll bring him back to that and if I could describe the existing plan of the bank um there's the drive-throughs there's the v in the front U main space with infrastructure Rel to the banking facility there was an office to one side the bank ball um there an office over here uh there it was a that I mentioned that is is going to be closed off now to the outside um there is currently a connection to the second floor from the first floor because basically it was the banking facilities on the first floor and it was like a lounge back bathrooms place to eat a place to you know take your your break upstairs so that you were were directly related on the buck floor and I'll show you that in a minute on the second floor um and then uh uh is to maintain the v in the front but add a reception area within that so that um when the people come in for the training session uh they can be greeted the um all the infrastructure related to the bank activity uh would be taken away so it would just be an open space there Mr let me ask you about the entrance so it's currently all glass right it's Florida ceiling glass when you walk in you're going to be putting in a divider so you've got your reception to the right yes but you're going to have what what's going to Face River Road it's it's it's uh we're not changing the glass the there will be some um Cabinetry behind it but it's going to be modern Cabinetry that is not solid it's going to be open down below and and not um so it what it would look like Furniture uh that's you're not going to treat the glass so that you can't see the backside of the desk from River Road that wasn't intended but I think they would be more than open to considering that that that was um something so what I want to point out that your your your front elevation is you know you just kind of modernize it a little bit but but what we see is we see the reflection in the glass if the reality is you're going to see someone's back and a chair and the back side of the desk I'm sure you would do it anyway I'm just I'm looking at it I was wondering if there was a treatment no you know what I think that that's fair to to to treat that lower part of it I think there's sort of with with some of the new offices and and types of furniture they're available there's ones that are are are meant to be seen all the way around um and and even some of the cords and all that stuff uh are able to be managed uh but there's still going to be print loes there and things like that so uh that that might be a good strategy to um keep really the structure there and the glass there but to take away looking at you saying sitting down people sitting down and so forth so I think that would I'm not sure that would does matter so I think that that that's a good to that but the intention here is really not to change the the glass otherwise on the could you go back Mr Anderson to A9 bring that up please on the bottom bottom right bring that up Y what do we have presently in front of these in front of these in front of the glass we what you have here the bushes right are those proposed to remain Jason are the bushes uh going to remain in front of um that was actually a discussion point it was it was up yeah I mean that's an alternative uh way of treating that as well so chairman they appear to be from an uneducated eye they mature at about 3 feet in height so the proposal would be to have them REM remain yeah I it's just the question it wasn't a proposed condition I just wanted to understand it I'm sure I'm sure you don't want it to look ugly I know Mr Anderson's trying to a question no but we don't want to to a gol either you know and it's a good a point well break what's the functionality of portico on the left side of the building here yeah um well that's a good point uh there was an off an office before and that is going to uh we made an office the um ATM area which is here is going to be closed off to the outside and it's going to be repurposed as an office interval from the inside only and then that's where that um uh the new U Bank of Windows is being is replacing what was the entry into the um U AGM and what's under the overhang that's going to be that's not there in terms of the utility vehicles what what hand space okay that's hand and but there won't be a door sorry there won't be a door there no no no there's no door there uh and it's why we're over here though there is a window here that's being uh we moved on the drive-thru where that small office is on the front and that's really just trying to make it a uh functional office there because we put in we replaced the bank of of penetration off on of the 18 area and it was going to be tough to really put here so that was being proposed to be removed Mr Anderson what what's the original square footage and what's the um as proposed square footage so so assume that the ATM was exterior space origin no it was inside considered interior so it's the same the first FL was5 86 and it's and and and upstairs you've moved the the the bathrooms well you didn't get yeah yeah that's a good there's a little tweak on it there so uh get to the second floor just really quickly tell you about the uh the vault and the attempt there is to um rather than having the bathrooms upstairs as they were before they were going to be um The Vault was going to be reconfigured with uh two handicap bathrooms down there it's really cool now I maybe I imagined that I thought that the discussion the last meeting was that part of the utility of having a parking space under the Westerly um drive-thru there was that they were talking about putting a door where that window is so that the person could go in to the building without going out of the roof is that my imagination that's what I had mentioned as well I thought it was not I'm not aware of that but I I thought they discussed that last time around but cont but that's not the intention okay and the that little office space in the drive on that end is included in that 2500 ft that you just it is and I believe there there's on the on the on the cover sheet of the of the zoning shows the hatch can respond shows what I'm sorry oh it shows the the area that's counted okay it's it's on this right in front right there okay thank you that bathroom's there now right over here yeah I mean you could somebody was there was the driveth it solves the mystery I Say Never the last the change and I guess it's maybe something we should clarify here we were really um not going to have these be continuous uh business before it was going to be two separate ones so that access to the second floor was being being abandoned uh from the first floor because it's not it's not that supportive use as it was when it was a bank I I don't know if there's any de so the the it's going to be abandoned that connection interior connection from the first floor to the second floor it will be removed so is there there's an exterior door now there is and there's also an interior door there it is and so you'll close that but otherwise leave the structure as is and so you'll just be able to access it from effectively the rear of the building that's right okay this okay it's it's a little confusing there because you're talking about using the second floor is an office until Mr Duff expands into the second floor right that's why had but if you abandon that so then he's going to have two separate entrances two separate spaces for his guess or could be open back up well okay well just put a pin in it to the extent that it's relevant let's let's let's do it in the end it's a the second floor now from the submitted sets okay2 two so before we go to the layout of the second Flor could I ask you a question about it was that second floor space finished that appeared to be original to the structure yes well yeah the whole this is the right one it looks like it's all there model AG minor did there and I'm I'm just asking because we've been referring ing to the 1968 um resolution that granted the variances and the and the use variance and one of the conditions of that was it was going to be a one-story building so I'm I was that's why I'm asking if you think that that's original to this or if it was done at some point later than 1968 because I don't so I don't know where the approval for that second story that's a good or half story whatever it is anything more than one story is the existing building so I've walk through the building it is really old you can tell that it is decades and decades old lolium it's got like a like a wood panel thing but the other thing is that it's the main bathrooms so all the bank employees were upstairs it was a breaking but I don't there is no other bathroom other than the one in the Drive-Thru currently is there yeah I think that's it so in order for them to get the original Co and use this thing you had to be up there you had to use it this way I don't know why the resolution says that but it it it would it's pretty straightforward the way it's laid out it's a good it looks like it's been there for a long time both in use and style so uh so case point so that was sort of the employee lounge up here with with his in her with men's and women's bathrooms bathrooms the same and there's a little a little kitchen at I I think up there um but neither are handicap compliant and um and then there's a mechanical um space uh to their West and um what is being proposed is to uh take out those two bathrooms because now we have them downstairs in the in the ball and then to be place just a single handicapped accessible bom there um and then uh maintain the uh mean mechanical equipment up there which is pretty involved U they did consider U making taking it out or moving it and that kind of stuff but it was it was there too much going on the electrical services up through the panels your picture show that they show some y BR back to a uh those pictures are not part okay 820 you said they're not in there did you take those pictures Mr I did did did you take the recent a couple months ago they fairly depict the condition I think that's just I think it's a lot of hbac the electrical panels are there which really take up a lot of it and then there's also some Bank related stuff which um yeah I think we're just going to leave it there going do much okay so that that's going to be abandoned but I think there was some questions Square yeah let's talk about the square footage of that so I think the the total on the second floor uh is is it 1,12 square feet that includes the mechanical the um the mechanical area that was 428 sare ft and the um the habitable part is 674 sare ft so Mr that that's there's there's effectively knee walls right there there's a sloping roof there where are you measuring that to um it it shows on the front we' taken it all the way to the knee balls and those are I think at 6 foot tall ex ex MS and if if somebody wanted to poke through the wall say the mechanical equipment wor it there is there any impediment to poking through the wall clearing out that other side and making that other piece of it usable it's mostly the mechanical equipment and relocating with that that would be theed this this has the same height that it does on this side so I uh I think you got past the that conceivably that you moved all the mechanical equipment that could be made habitable space in terms of the the height because it's 8ot um ceiling there and and we did it was being considered it was just it was too expensive with with the the mechanical so it's unusual to have an attic space accessible to what we would call living level with what we normally do um you know in these meetings and so but it seems to me based on the height of the second floor it's really a story and a half where you put the bathroom is where you have the height but as you go to the sides as I recall it slopes and so to the extent anyone was worried that you would do that it seems as though the placement of the bathroom kind of locks you into that design you really wouldn't be able to use areas around it to get past not feasibly I don't or economically I don't we did ask the question and the the bathroom in here but it was the cost of mechanical equipment having to modify that that that that they the owner chose to not pursue it and just to leave it as it is well it's interesting it may not have been made into habitable space originally because it was right above where the safe is and you know like I said this building's built very strongly a lot of Steel lot of concrete that wouldn't typically commercial building but I think there was a lot of of um uh W to make it safe for a bank particularly with the ball so um you know there may have been a reason why they they didn't put easy access you know over the top of that that's not going to pose a problem to putting Plumbing in the bat oh it's going to be [Music] a undertaking they they they've talked to the plumbers and gotten voices and stuff I'm glad to S me doing it so that's a good question intend there's not big architectural changes there it's really ined the bir maintenance on it and uh bringing a little life and and and then really taking out of a lot of the infrastructure that related directly to being a that and again your testimony was that there's no increase in the footprint that's that's cor thank you but it is getting larger right because you're that that bathroom on the second story is increasing the usable area Second Story it does this is is that's a good point the zoning wise it doesn't matter because it's within that zoning envelope but functionally they are they are getting um a little more space um so could we go through the square footage again so what is the second story as completed with the um with the bathroom the square footage [Music] usare I believe it's 674 674 with that inclusive and and do you know what it is without the bathroom I I don't and so you still have the sloping roof height so when you get to the perimeter on two sides the North to the South the River Road and then the back that's only six feet that's right the relevance is that you see this line and this line or the six high wall so do you have any do you have any pictures of that side of the of a structure now I don't but you're not proposing to change the roof in any way no so what I want just what I want to share with you is that it is small really small um no smaller than this and because the roof slopes it it feels smaller than it actually is and and I the reason I'm I'm pointing it out is because I I'm I'm still focused on that second independent user and kind of what could you do up there utility is minimum you just can't do that much I mean it really you know you really just couldn't um actually your wall seems to change they very front P 6 foot then it goes down to 5'3 5 three in the bump out Midway the Dormer um that's going to remain as it is that that is currently the the back of the bathroom and I mean if uh we were just planning on leaving it there but it's you know I hadn't thought about planing it out to the no partitions no no demising it's going to be a single open space youve got a closet on top of the stairs and the bathroom it's it's currently one and it's going to remain intention is to [Music] keep but actually now that you mentioned it the question is whether or not to put a door at the top of those stairs um and because there was one when when it was a the lounge because I guess they didn't want the you know that sound going back and forth uh and when when that connection to the first FL got was taken away we thought that's was to take out that door you know and just have the one door downstairs you're not having to the stairs are relatively tied as well and actually now that I'm looking at that that is I don't believe a compliant door there as well say compant it's 1 there's no there's no Landing inside the door it just goes right there you can do in a residence but I stairway isn't fine either is really tight yeah I don't think rise and run I think it's really important to understand this in terms of the the concerns about what that second store could eventually be because it really is it's just incredibly limited I it I I'm just wondering whether or not um a stipulation with regard to any further demising in the Second Story would be problematic so prohibit further demising on the second floor it just seems to me that the function if it's simply One open space is going to be limited to something very very small okay Mr Anders are there two showers on the uh first floor safe bottom right bottom right I'm sorry all right I guess this is a more prerational followup question but do you anticipate anyone staying on site overlap between customers um scheduled appointments maybe overl you mean will they will they if everyone's scheduled and they come in for hour slots typically you come in and another person would be leaving at the same time but yeah is there an opportunity for people to stay on site I guess after their appointment or or do you go with Mr you go when appointment come come the only reason big shower after the work out only happen usually 5: a.m. 6 appointments for people work out go to work so You' considered that as as part of you know the parking yeah they hard get used they do get used just [Music] early thank you anything further Mr Anderson from your notes no is there a locker room anywhere no so someone would have to they can't come in get changed and that's not that's not you you come ready to work as I understand you come ready to you know to do your one hour workout with your coach but you may bring a bag with you so you can shower after workout at the both places we have again one one location the other lock there people bags CES for put the bags in come dress work after show is there like a small seating or waiting area if you're there no students at the front counter so people come early F chairman board members Mr okay I have one thing Don Miller from record um I just wanted to um touch based on the exterior Building B lighting um I know you're going to paint all the doors and make these modifications um there are a bunch of Lights elimination uh you know signs from the old drive-throughs those are all going to come off the building uh I'm going toer uh we haven't really addressed the building man riding so if I can ask the only what put their they're going on okay so the simulation is that all all the erroneous drivethru Bank Le lightings coming up I'm interested so so Mr Victor had sort of talked about what he had adjusted I'm interested in understanding the lighting plan um in total um so I think we should kind of cover that at some point yeah I I think Mr piter had indicated that with regards to building lighting it would be well he testified that there's a note on his plan referring to the architectural plans about the light me Westerly drive-throughs there needs to be some coordination on different sets of plans with respect to lighting and arit no indication so all the lighting will put on Mr fitcher's plan so that is just one plan that reflects it all that Mak sense yeah that's all point it's look it's the intersection between what you have right now some of the concerns that we heard from the neighbors what you're going to need based on the use and seeing whether or not there's a way to accommodate any concerns and make it consistent you know with what this design and function is going to need to do yes M re I want to point out to you that it is uh 9917 yes and we have a room full of people we're good I'm certainly taking up more than my share of time I just I just want to observe it I I would imagine that we're not going to go later than like 10:30 um maybe that's even a little late I have just picture with the planning and then ready for public comment can we discuss the wedding at some as a subject Mr fiser made comments at the beginning saying this would change this would change this would change but I'd like to see some of those changes especially to the the one thing that pointed out last time I believe Mrs Blazer pointed out the flag lighting yeah was problematic and I know you said that you changed it but I want to know that make sure that that's accommodating to the to the neighbor boy now really feels like the right time for that um I think if you could just walk us around help us understand what you understand the lighting to be right now and then what you propose it to be one of the things I heard you say earlier was that you're slopping one out because you're going to use a street light which is one of the things that we had talked about yeah um so I excuse me I advocated um when we put this project together to light the site the afin didn't want to felt there was enough ambient light out there and we came to the first hearing there was an issue with lighting and I had my tail between my legs and he's saying see so anyway here we are well here I want to point something out because that's really where I started right this bank's been there for however long it's been there the idea that the new requirements or updated requirements say to you light this up I understand that but I think that we need to be sensitive to what everybody's gotten used to what we would be changing and make sure it's purposeful if it's purposeful to keep people safe then certainly we need to talk about it and that's why I advocated for it safety this time of year you know they they don't operate late so in the summer they may never need the lighting but this time year they would need have you been to the site at night I have early in the morning so just to describe what we have for lighting one one of the first things you have to do with site lighting design for safety is light driveways that's the point of conflict keep safe the uh what's it called the uh uh engineering International Ting Society I might have that backward Illuminati about that um that's my next witness there is a standard there is a design standard it's not it's guidelines that Engineers follow when when you design sites and they recommend it's somewhere between a foot and a half to two foot candles at driveways for safety so the first thing I focused on was lighting the Smith Street driveway and the driveways on River Road I did not touch the Western driveway there's ambient light over there it's hardly going to get used so we would not add a light there we did add a light here by mounting it on the side the dist drive through roof I guess you want to call it um and we added a light pole over by the Smith Street driveway that was on the last plan we had on in the middle of the parking lot that was a point of discussion last time the decision was in the direction from the Board of Public take that out so that light has been removed there is existing Street lighting I believe there's two lights there there's a coverhead and then there's a decorative light on the sidewalk we modeled those in our program and that lights up the middle por of the parking lot the the light that I think everybody is may be focusing on and we were just talking about with the architect is there's some ceiling mounted lights in that Western drive-thru and the neighbor I believe it was lot 14 maybe um to our South we'll say South complain of the lights in that drivethru so it's exterior but it's covered you know it's in that drivethru area so the note we added to our plan is take those lights out and we're going to put new lights in that go down they'll be mounted in the ceiling they'll go down which is why I said they'll be on the architect they're not really sight lights they're just architectural lights we can make our plans consistent to that effect that answer your question where are there existing street lights there's a a coverhead light they're they're on the plan but there's a coverhead light uh kind of in the center of the parking lot and I believe close by that there's a decorative whole mounted light um I think there's a second one right in front of the building yes there's a second Cobra head light kind of right in front of the building there those are the street lights yes so for exterior lighting down lighting recessed essentially underneath the the first drive-thru on the second drive-thru you've got a building mounted light facing River Road to the exit not not really facing River Road it's kind of facing diagonal out this way but it it does light that driver and then you've got another light that you put in on Smith Street yes but that's it that's no other exterior lights in terms of what we're adding the Smith Street pole this building mounted light by the driveway and then I'll call them architectural lights in the western driveway okay and there were lights in the in the flag pole that were in the ground you're right so there is the sign out front and the flag pole they have lights it seems that they're old and not very good so we noticed that made a note on our plans we'll replace those with more appropriate up lights so on the corner of river and Smith there's a telephone pole that has a street light that comes out on the property side of the pole does that not illiminate the Smith Street entrance I mean you know I'm happy to take all the lights out I no no no it's not yours that's that's what I'm saying on the telephone pole like public street lights there SHO or more public street lights that come off of the poles on property side as well as the ones that go out over the street plus the one that's the old style lamp post that's outs like it is on the plan yeah it's not exactly at the corner it's it's in just a onib that's right there I was wondering if we need that light on the Smith Street driveway side that's would love to remove it's existed there without it yeah I don't think I think it's extraneous I do and I think it's probably for The Neighbor on the corner and immediately across the street across Smith Street is one of the old style lamp posts right on that corner yeah right so I drove there I drove there night after the last time we we met and I I it seemed to me that it was reasonably well L as it is the issue is this is still a residential Zone and while in Fair Haven we have commercial AB buding residential uh throughout the commercial District it's not not all AB budding exactly this tight um and so I do think we should be sensitive to it I want to get back to the flag po um and the sign is there any accommodation for the fact that you have a really residential all around you to try and soften this do we need flag pole lights well you either it's it's going to be an American flag which goes to a comment in Mr R's be an American flag you either have to take it down and put it up every day or light it through the night then the desires to light it through the night keep it up and those lights they they go up so I'm not patriotic if I think that I don't like tell tell us about the sign itself you've got it you've got a PNC sign that's there is it back lit right now that what it was I think it's externally lit lights in the ground there and what are you proposing yeah it's um we're proposing the same thing it would be externally L we're we're proposing again new lights modern you know going up nothing egregious would you consider taking the stalk away and just bringing the light down onto the ground surface a stalk it's on a it's on a pole the light sorry sign you want to ground Mount the reducing the profile of the reducing the profile of sign in other words you you have a sign that has uh an elevation and it has the sign have to look at site Tri yeah that that sign is in the site Tri you're all gonna have a chance to talk and I I just appreciate if we could just you all have a chance to talk um if I could offer at least as far as the flag is concerned um lighting of the flag doesn't have to be from either side it could be from the sidewalk point of that building that would at least block illumination from affecting you know whoever's on River Road and it wouldn't be high enough that we get over the top of the building so my goal was to outline what's being proposed and I know that the residents that live in the area had expressed some interest in talking about it and I figured that we would hear from the residents to talk about what what the impact is on them and then we can take the discussion a little further lights are on either side of the light now is that right the lights are on both they're on both sides that okay the afin is eager to make this work and bring this building to life and he said if we're hung up on the flag pole take it out okay so so so that's nice know that the applicants accommodating of that concept um I think with regard to the to to the other to the sign Lighting in particular I I'm wondering whether or not there's a way to make sure that we've got it contained um but I just want to make sure I understand what you're proposing because I'm not sure I I do understand it right now they're they're ground mounted lights they they don't come out of the ground they're just mounted at ground level and they're fled to the ground yes they just point right up to the sign okay but the sign's five ft in the air or something right correct you don't allow if I'm not mistaken you don't allow wayer disc sign discuss there a problem dropping the sign down on the ground level we're gonna take a look at the detail every I think top yeah but it could be moved back against the building right I mean the drive side triangle should ridiculous I want to make sure from the MR re I want to make sure that I understand what's being proposed and then everybody can have their coma are you reusing the existing signpost and sign and just repacing it yeah there're slightly modifying the dimensions of it yes they're using the the existing pole they're using a portion of the existing structure they're not raising the top but they're lowering the Bottom by like five and a or something like that this part of the variance the sign is the variance so the the lighting from grade is that the is that the way you're supposed to light this sign yes and are there alternative ways to light the on can you do it from Goose next up at the top and just come back down to it so it doesn't have to shoot from the ground all the way up okay why do you need that much signage well I mean it's a business you want to build brand awareness you want to build interest you want to direct people to the site you know that that's important for businesses to have that visibility I would look at other signs in town and um thetically I go down River Road I think a canyon pass I think of um a couple others they're a little bit more in keeping I think architecturally this this thing that I'm looking at so is like sew out of context yeah so I would propose that this yeah so to that end there's a couple things first of all the intention is to use what's there right even when we are modifying it to use what's there and then the other thing is and I'm going to talk a lot about this in planning testimonies we're out of context right now but spoiler alert the we're not in the B1 Zone but we're adjacent to it and visually we appear part of it and the the sign that we're proposing conforms to the B1 standard I know we're not the B1 but anyway we followed that guideline I think this is an opportunity to soften that a lot I appreciate that yeah listen I think so from my perspective inside right we talked about this a lot at the last day and there's been some con you know you go with a post sign or a smaller Monument sign in front that's parallel to the front of the building something that still advertised Mr Duff's business I I don't think anyone say the nature of making it seem like his business isn't there but I mean the sign is almost it's pretty uh it's pretty egregious right and then even I think if you're moving it down you know it's like hey welcome to the commercial District right that's how it feels when you're driving down there is my perspective I think the sign out of all of this stuff we discussed is the worst attribute of the entire play in my opinion I don't think removing the American flag is a great idea maybe there's a way to put a post sign in front of the lights behind it eliminate up Shield some it you know not uh not for me to the side but I do think the side is by far the worst piece of this like it's part of the bank it was it was put there as part of the PC branding probably yeah it is the bank sign right but there's an opportunity to make it let's improve on on on that 1968 activity okay so I can tell that the audience is very anxious to to make comments and so rather than asking them to to to wait let's see if we can move through what we wanted to do so we can get them involved um in in this aspect of the discussion so just I'm just U for the recent uh resolution not the ancient one but the more recent one like the 2017 or 18 be second chairman please [Music] M while you're looking at it yeah what there was a there's a second resolution from the planning board thought there was a recent resolution relating to what relating to the sign but maybe I'm not correct no you're right other I was from 198 seen it but there must have been sign yeah I I you know I have a I have kind of a workshop file at my office then an application file I have the application file with me course evening but we can come back to that okay did you remember something about it that was related to what we're talking about well I think it was I think it would have been recently approved I guess that's that would be my my it wasn't this board must have been I think the point that the sign like a newer sign that was could have been specific I like you said specific to the B So Okay so we've touched on lighting we're not down withad lighting touched on sign we're not done with sign we touched on blackag pole we're not done with blackag pole what's next in terms of your SE T okay let's jump in while I fill the record all right so the the Crux City application obviously is that we're a D1 use variance we are proposing to adaptively reuse this 50 plus year old building 56 I think was the maap uh to continue commercial uses on this residentially Z property and since we're proposing a different use in the bank that brings us here a taking D1 use variant relief uh the tenant is um a locally owned business I know that's an important thing in town uh providing physical and wellness training it's a it's kind of a health and wellness idea it's a benign use relies heavily on appointments it limits the amount of people that are on the property in any given time um we've done away with office completely no no okay retain that okay so one person office that's right all right so there's still an opportunity for a small office uh we heard that discussion U that's upstairs the the fitness and office uh uses are both permitted in the B1 Zone site suitability is a big thing for D1 variances and I think that's a no-brainer on this site because this building has operated as a bank for the past 50 plus years it's also on a on a County Road it's directly adjacent to the B1 Zone and it has has the visual appearance of being a continuation of the business district of the community the property in the building are TurnKey from the the applicant except for some minor interior modifications all the changes that we're making to the site are really just in response to the ordinance to to accommodate B the alternatives to this use variants would be finding a new bank tenant or demolishing everything on site and constructing residential homes and the applicant has made it clear to us and I believe he stated here he has really no interest in either one of those options uh he is passionate as he said about the town and wants to bring that that uh Wellness facility concept to the community so the better planning alternative here is to adaptively reuse the building to provide services to the community as opposed to adding for example residents that will be seeking services from the community there are three C variances that are subsumed into the use variants and that concept comes from Cas laer you've heard it before the idea is that the bulk requirements of the R5 Zone were not created with a commercial use in mind so in order for commercial use to be uh feasible different bulk standards would need to be considered in this case the C variances we need are related to signage and lot coverage so as far as the signage goes it would be the maximum sign area and uh the maximum sign area for a freestanding sign so the residential Zone permits two square feet we're proposing 25 square feet I know that's on the table for discussion but um as for now the existing sign that's there today is 21.4 square feet for reference uh the intention was to slightly increase the size of the proposed sign but we made a comment that we would simply reface the existing sign so it would remain at 21.4 Square ft the again the B1 Zone permits that 25 square feet so it'll be undersized for the adjacent B1 Zone the sign is going to maintain the same front yard setback and the same height to the top um so as far as the height goes the R4 Zone only permits 4 feet and the B1 Zone permits 12 and the existing sign is at 12 feet uh which again is no surprise since the site has really been treated as a commercial property we're proposing maintain that 12 I'm I'm sorry it's just so relevant where does the size of the sign come from what what what's the the calculation for the 25 ft is that based on just being in the zone no matter how many users you have that's what the B B1 Zone says yes just per lot that's Max 25 square feet eight users doesn't matter I believe that's correct yes for a freestanding sign okay and lastly the R5 Zone does not permit window signs and we're proposing a window sign on the main entry door to help direct people to the right place it's just the top pane it's shown on our I think it's sheet uh c700 in our plans um it's just the top pain of the window two signs two window [Music] signs wayfinding side into back but it faces to the east if I remember from last time or no the uh the one that's in the front the main door for the clients or whatever they're called um that faces yes East it does [Music] not yeah are both signs the same or are they different I got the impression they're same yeah believe so the sign that's on the door that's that's on the River Road side um that sign that top pain of that door measures 10 square ft and coincidentally be one zone perits 10 square ft for the uh for the window sign in terms of the maximum loot coverage uh we in the residential Zone we're permitted to have 50% what exists today is 71.6 4 and what we're proposing is 68.9 again last time we were here we were at 70.7 n so we've dropped it spur the changes are near the refu area in the rear removal of concrete in the front uh on the Eastern Front facade of the building and now also a portion of the driveway uh adjacent to the ada8 parking space we're merely looking to continue the existing condition but we were able to remove some of the impervious surfaces which is going to reduce runoff and improve the visual appeal of the street skate there's also some existing non-conformities um they're not going to change they exist today we're not proposing any changes I won't go through them in detail but just to let you know what they are they are classic C1 hard variances lot Frontage lot width front yard rear yard both to the principal building building height and the coua dimensions so those existing nonconformity will not change so in support of the variances that we're asking for I need to demonstrate to you that at least one of the purposes of planning would be Advanced if you were to approve this application and I think there's a few the first is this is an appro appropriate use and development which will promote the general welfare so again this is an Adaptive reuse project that's going to bring a vacant building back to life and help improve the vibrancy of the neighborhood it supports local small businesses gives them a home in their community and it enables them to serve the people of the community eliminating the bank also reduces the parking Demand on the site which is going to reduce relying on Reliance on parking throughout the neighborhood which we talked about earlier I think that's a wonderful benefit we're providing adequate light air and open space we're not proposing any changes that would impact light air in open space that's existed for the past 50 plus years we're providing sufficient space and appropriate location for commercial use the application again is for adaptive reuse of the 50-year old site that has the appearance of being part of the local business Zone the building in site more than accommodate the applic needs or the tenants needs so I think this is an entirely appropriate location for the proposed use uses we're encouraging the location and design design of Transportation routes which will promote the free flow of traffic while discouraging location of such facilities and routes which will result in congestion or blight it's ideal to have commercial uses on higher order roadways such as River Road which is a county road so we advance this application we're promoting a desirable visual environment as part of this adaptive reuse the applicant is going to clean and refresh the building and the site and install additional landscape plantings and when done this property is going to maintain its Legacy charm we're promoting the maximum practicable recovery of recycling and recyclable materials from Municipal Solid Waste through the use of planting practices this purpose is Advanced because of the Adaptive reuse of the building and the site the alternative would be to demolish all the existing improvements and construct a new development which would be contrary to this purpose so we advaned to this purpose and lastly we're conserving property values in the neighborhood once the applicant completes the proposed improvements and the local business begins to operate and serve the community the property is going to become an asset to the barrel adaptly reusing a vacant property with deferred maintenance and bringing it back to life so it can contribute to the community will conserve if not improve property values in the neighborhood in terms of the negative criteria I'd like to zoom out first and kind of paint a picture of what this really is high level synopsis of this variance looks like this you have a use variance to continue commercial use of the building that's operated as a commercial use for the past 50 plus years you've got both variances that are subsumed into that use variance related to business signage and the reduction in lot coverage and then you have several bulk variances that are existing and won't change by this application so while this application might have your attention because it's a D1 use variant it's actually a very simple application and I don't expect the neighborhood and the community at large will notice much of a difference once the tenants occupy the building except that obviously the bacing property is going to come to life again and contribute to the Vitality of the Barrow the property has to look and feel being part of the B1 Zone both by its its location and its history it also coincidentally happens to be across the street from from the B2 Zone as well your master plan discusses compatibility of the B1 Zone with adjacent residential neighborhoods and while this property is not in the B1 Zone it is directly adjacent to it and has been functioning as a B1 property for the past 50 plus years and with that in mind your master plan says something that I think is very relevant which is quote while it may not be practical to increase buffer widths Beyond 30 ft due to the relatively small size of the L in the business district the interface between the businesses and adjacent residences deserve sensitive consideration in the context of development applications and that's exactly the scenario with this application that was part of my testimony last time the buffer with the adjacent properties to our South we're reducing the intensity of use on the property we're maintaining the existing conditions we're replacing the existing fence with a new more attractive uh fence and obviously all those neighbors trees and vegetation along that property line are there to help as well your master plan discusses coverage as well it says quote the reduction in impervious coverage in order to enhance the character of the business district remains relevant furthermore as development Redevelopment occurs within the business district the burrow should encourage and facilitate reductions in impervious cover and we've accomplished this by reducing the imperious coverage with this application one of the objectives of your mass plan is to protect and enhance the existing cure of the burrow and the applications adaptive reuse of a building that's been on this property for about 50 years so we achiev this objective another objective of your master plan is to improve improve and redevelop the business district as the main street of the community again while we're not in the business district we are Jed to it Fly part of it based on its history uh we achiev this objective by improving the property and bringing in this tenant these tenants who will serve the community so with those thoughts in mind I think that if the application was approved it would not cause a substantial detriment to the public good nor do I believe it would substantially impair the intent and purpose of the Zone plan and as you uh consider the negative criteria I do always like to highlight that word substantial you're not looking to see if approving the application would cause a detriment to the public or impairment to the Zone plan you're looking to see if it would cause a substan detriment or substantial impairment and I don't believe this application Rises to the level of substantial in either case and for the planning lovers in the room with regard to the medich criteria for the D1 use variants I believe we provided proofs to support findings that the proposed use is substantially consistent with your master plan and zoning ordinance and that we're able to reconcile granting of the use variants in light of the use of omission from being considered permitted in the ordinance and on balance I believe that the benefits of the application substantially outweigh its detriments giving you the ability to approve this application with confidence that's all I have Mr can you clarify what variances Mr V you kind of mentioned some C variances PR nonconformities at least I thought things that were effectively either covered by your existing resolutions or pre-existing nonconformities because they may preate current zoning and grandfather I know you need to one I know you need something for the sign but do we have any other C there there's two additional ones that I I added to my most recent letter because they're replacing the events hold on one second so we're in agreement as the D1 we're in agreement that there's a variance required for the sign there's two additional two for the signs two for the signs quantity of window signs two propos okay um and the the free standing sign um it's one variance but they exceed the square footage and the height four feet is required can I get some clarification on the window signs so the one window sign is going to face to the east where the new door is but you said it was going to be 10 square feet yeah it's big it's I think the door maybe Jay can help us the door is three or three something feet and it's Square so you multiply 3 * three is n three CH you got 10 it isn't 10 yet but it is the whole is a window assign or is it just an emblem on there look on I could bring it to you but on c700 but that's I don't know the sign is substantially smaller than 10 10 feet I agree with or you got the door as the sign a vyl pain I think his testimony was that the entire pain is counted that's a conservative okay but but but the balance the voids in there are translucent right it's glass and what you got is an emblem and the square footage the emblem is far less than 10 square feet agreed okay on the back you've got a similar sort of emblem on a similar sort of door that faces the facts will not be visible from River Road or anywhere else right that would probably just be lettering for Mr Anderson's office and similar in terms of size it's going to be a be one okay the exhibit for that 14 we don't think we have an exhib as to that so Jordan make sure we understand I understand over D1 for the East we've got the sign variances with because there's not one there's two one's to the back door one's to the side door what's the other sign variance exactly the one on River Road is the whole thing need to be redone is it the proposed to increase it to the 25 versus 21 I think Mr stipulated that we drop it from 25 to 24 which is the existing size can you do that without a variant is per well to your point it's existing we're just if it's existing and it that's why I want to see that resolution chairman if it's existing and it's approved in 2018 it's just being refaced I don't think it requires a variance at all I don't think anybody likes it the way it is I'm not suggesting they do but but I want to before everybody else gets up and tells you what they don't like I want to understand what you're entitled to and what you need there's a pretty big difference so okay let's put that to the side what else anything else I have two two fence variances um they're replacing the fence it's going to be a six tall fence the entire right side of the property is considered conard because it but the fence is there and it's a condition of the 68 resolution yeah I I would again same thing I would view it it was previously approved and it's required to be an ongoing condition of that the resolution was for 5 fo T fence right and in my op this is a new application to new use fair enough okay okay okay I hadn't heard that before what's next anything else that's all I have and then there's um five existing conditions oh I'm sorry there's an approv coverage there why being reduced yeah but it still exceeds but it's still VAR it exists based on they're disturbing they're making a change yeah and it doesn't comply changes variance if it reduces the the previously approved yeah touching it yeah okay so they can leave it not not reduce it at all they don't need a variance in order to make it better they trigger a variance right but he doesn't meet his objective master plan if he doesn't reduce it oh okay well okay so he so he takes a hit to his planning testimony but he could leave it alone and not require a variance not for that okay that's it that's it for new okay are you done Jason yeah yes thank you Mr aens we okay to go to public we're okay to go to public okay so before we go to public I'm going to note that it is 7 minutes 10 um I said I didn't want to go any later than 10:30 and that's what that's what I still think we're probably going to do um I I'm sensing that there's people that are very anxious to speak one person at a time name address politeness please and let's hear what everybody has to say Mr aens we have a two-minute break Comfort break for everybody or just for you all right we'll call we'll call two minute Comfort break thank you roll call please here Mr here Dr here Mr here here okay we're ready for public so um step forward state your name your address for the record please Mr Kat is going to s in um it's questions and comments with regard to the application and what you've heard tonight and what you heard in December I stand right just St right pleas me swear the testimony you give before the board be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do please state your name spelling your last name for the record please Arthur arford a r f o r d uh 33 12 14 colon 14 thank Mr rert just cu standing there next to the side plan can you point to your house so we can understand your where you are relative to it please see okay what 12 right here got it second half's in on Colonial immediately a bu in the back yeah okay uh a couple of things I just want to mention about especially I'm concerned about the party uh first of all over here these buildings were not built until the 1980s and uh we used to just have uh I know because I used to have my friends stin there and said don't park over there uh it's it's going to be a problem second of all I'm sorry your point is that when this building was built that was actually parking adjacent to the acne it's no longer available for parking making the the parking offsite more complicated correct s uh second thing is that unfortunately late this area seems to be used for long-term parking by a number of trucks and I know this because the last time snowed those trucks sat there with snow on them for about three or four days this is on Smith Street Smith Street okay thank you okay now that's BR on there the other thing I want to mention is the water uh the Smith Street uh goes downhill slightly from murer Road and pools right there at the colon report comes into it there's been a number of times over the last 50 years where the water has come up to the houses and then it starts going down now that is a problem and it does as I said the runoff does that way thank you I have I have a question for you about the drain issue yes so uh boy everybody in Fair Haven knows what you guys are going through and how difficult that is um help me understand when when you see when you have a rain event are you seeing water coming from River Road Down Smith and then emptying into Colonial well some of it does yes it it it builds up there's a some of it comes from the parking lot of the AC they're all pools right if you don't notice it's a little lower right there where they're uh from uh uh River Road it goes down there and then it starts going slightly up again to foreman and are you aware of any specific drainage from this parking lot into Smith and coming back down it seems well it it can drain from the where you where they enter it okay thank you okay Mr a if you read the 1968 um resolution they discussed the same problem on Colonial Court yeah no it's amazing to read that it was that that problem goes that far back that's nothing we're ready for the next person I see is there anyone else question or [Music] comment can I present no come on come on come on forward I'm gonna ask you for your name and your address for the record I'm L 15 right here 22 Colonial Court can you spell your last name o o FY and you have some materials that you want to give to submitt to evidence I do um just do I'm going to let you come forward you saw Mr Ro testimony you give before the board be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I did you do thank you um that's the open report from May to October from the ride studio for noise citations it's my understanding that I've reached out to the town multiple times regarding an objective measure for sound and apparently we don't have one I'm sorry it's an Oprah report that you got from the town from the police station for noise citations from the ride Studio that's Anatomy chairman does this relevant to this application well we're going to find out what is the ride Studio can I ask you to go back to the table um I guess it's a cycling Studio that's in the AY parking lot so where is it in the can you see it on the S plan over there um it's next to the pil studio so if you know like where the lrat is along Street okay so one of the tenants along Smith Street is inside of the acne shopping center okay so one of those tenants is called the ride Studio correct and so you've submitted into evidence noise complaints that are um being called in with regard to that use and that's because it's similar to the use that's being proposed here um possibly my other concern with the use here is that they're going to be doing outside exercise so does that mean that I should anticipate Runners coming down Colonial Court and down rural areas at 5:00 a.m. well let's so let's make sure you submitted this into evidence so what what specific purpose and we need to let um um we need to let Mr Akens take a look at that so so what specifically would you like the board to understand that to me noise noise that they're having a noise problem no my objection as to relevance chairman board members I think something offsite that creates a noise conditions not relevant to what's being proposed this evening and it was unequivocal unchallenged that Mr Duffy said there would be no microphone and no music and no no noise one-onone instruction I'm not sure why this Oprah report for an off-site use is relevant to what we're talking about this even she's explained the relevance from her point of view at this point if if I may yeah please she's explained her concerns with regard to relevance that a nearby location was subject of of a noise complaint she's not saying it's your your particular application but she's concerned that if there are going to be outside activities that there might be similar noise raised that's her role certainly it's subject to questions may have about that and work not are those complaints for outside activities outside of the studio no this is actually contained inside at the moment okay so they're having a problem there with noise okay corre Mr aens and this is not this is somewhat relevant to her question um if if there were enough complaint about the outside use training outside on a nice day and that sort of thing would the applicant be IM medable to say we don't have any onside training um I know that in other areas say he may be uping a business zone so it doesn't matter but given the proximity to the neighborhood yeah would there be and I'm not suggesting that it would be I'm just asking the applicant stipulates that I mean saying okay I'm not going to have people out you slaming walls in behind the building at at 7 am. just because it's a nice St out I'm just just putting it out there okay so so that's I I heard sit-ups and push-ups which are fairly innocuous but we can stipulate that we won't do that either oh there's all sorts of you sure absolutely okay so I want to gather the information and get it out so people can understand what your thoughts are the the second comment that you made was with regard to people running down Colonial Court right he said that there would be running if they're exercising outside running down the street running down the sidewalk was mentioned okay um I'm not aware of any business or exercise C that opens at 5:00 a and we do have the Quality quality of life on colonal court most of us have pets including dogs that if that activity is happen at 500 a.m. they will be barking what about people that want to go out for a run that are not affiliated with my are they allowed to run on colonal Port we've never had anyone go downon someone could could be but I drive to work in at 4:30 in the morning and there's a group of people that run down fa Road at 4:30 in the morning I actually have to go around them because they busy not you know it's more of a busy road okay I mean they also run down River Road but that doesn't did you have anything else um I also wanted to mention the parking on Smith Street just to Pigg you back off my neighbor that there are trucks that Park out there and LS do not move I'm also from acne going north on that first block past the acne those three cars haven't moved in probably a month and a half which also poses a hazard because on the opposite side um the arbor body are overgrown probably 3 feet into the street so if this is going to be a busier intersection that also poses a problem um we have no wood kids to walk down that area to go to the acne shopping center for Duncan Nicholas um the grocery store lunchtime they're going to talo so that also is a very busy intersection and poses a problem also poses a problem first thing in the morning um for school drop offs because there are people that go down Smith Street after they're dropping off their kids and it poses a problem for people trying to leave their residents so so SMI Smith reach public Street there's parking permitted on Smith my guess is that the ordinance does not permit overnight parking or leaving cars for a month at a time I don't know but but the relevance I believe to what we're talking about is that there is limited availability currently because of the way it's being used the the maintenance issue with regard to the overhang and the rest is relevant because as it is as it's maintained as it's enforced it's already congested there's a lot of people here right right did I draw out of yes okay did you have anything more um also to create maybe a larger buffer from the business the [Music] building how if there's not going to be parking back there why can't we put more trees so they're allowing two two spots right from what I heard been parking back there the existing drive so they're proposing three shrubs to be planted in the back I don't remember where the shrubs were going thewest on thewest the south line is fairly mature with existing vegetation okay so so the so the point is that with with the space that's there there's an opportunity to create a vegetated buffer where you're not going be able to move move the building but that that vegetated buffer would provide something akin to a a greater separation between the commercial and the res okay you have an do you have an auxiliary building on your property I have a shed yeah and your shed is in the is adjacent to the right here lot the lot lck right right here okay so so this corner is is open but they're putting they're putting shrubs in that area which don't exist before and you already you already have you already have a an existing building there I have Clear Vision from the out so it's not completely vegetated it's not completely blocked once the trees there you won't have Vision though is that right I don't know how be okay specified in the CCH I don't so Mr a is going to get an opportunity to to to react to the to the thoughts that you have there anything more was there anything further did the other gentleman wish to provide any you're okay okay okay could you hand that exhib or do you need to reference come on power to the microphone from together please the hour operation from 5 AM to 7.m I don't know of any other business in town and I could be wrong that starts at 5:00 am especially for a residential area so Mr aens was that were those the hours 5:00 am until 700 PM yes on Monday through Friday Monday Friday Saturdays and Sundays 7 a 7 to one and and what what are the local ordinances provide with regard to that is there any direction from the ordinances could you be open 247 that's fine we appreciate it because we don't know our coration so so I understood the description of when they were going to be open when they were going to be closed as a description of Mr Duffy's business this board isn't being asked to Grant any variance nor do I think we necessarily could with regard to those hours so I didn't I understood it to be descriptive only um and and we certainly wouldn't be permitting or not permitting them to open or close um and so I I don't know if I've missed both but um I we're not aware of anything more restrictive so if there's something more restrictive obviously we're not proposing to change that or deviate from that I don't think we could we have to abide by that so so who would have that answer well it's a matter so in in the burough ordinances with regard to operation of businesses there's going to be rules with regard to when they can be open and when they can be closed and there may or may not be you know ordinances with regard to noise the the issue is that the the the discussion that we're having relates to a change in use from the bank to the to the studio use and to the extent that the ordinances permit um these times to be available for the business to be open then then that's the standard that applies across the entire area but this is a residential area and the bank wasn't open at by this board doesn't have jurisdiction okay to change burrow ordinance or to even Grant a variance from a board B ordinance so then where could I get that ordinance from with from the bur Mr rzo is there anything in the 68 resolution with regard to hours of operation I don't believe so okay at least I don't think there's any conditions and I would wager that the installation of the ATM suggested that that was a 247 situation um I not sure maybe they could wait in I'm not sure they intend to exercise outside at 5:00 a.m. I think it's merely we just stipulated that we sorry to be clear we just stipulated that we would not exercise outside so that's off the table correct but but I heard testimony and I don't think it's their function as a correct health and wellness to have people out on the driveway so I understand the concern but I think they're concentrating just to be a little supportive of running their program within the facility think they mentioned no mics no music I think they also mentioned it's one-onone it's very personal it's by a appointment only so I don't see a lot of increase in traffic like a Bank or ATM which must have been like like a McDonald's um so you know I think the use is fair I think it as it's been presented um I mean I know start going off track here well so so so here's what's relevant to your concerns the the testimony has been consistent with the idea that there won't be ambient noise outside in relation to what they're doing the applicant on hearing your concerns correct me if I'm wrong Mr Rens has agreed to stipulate that they would not have activities outside at all period you're correct okay so includes people bringing their own music as I just here I live behind this building right so what it covers is that the the applicant is proper that they would agree to a condition where they would not be able tied into the an approval to to operate at all they would not be able to to do things outside and with regard to noise they've profed that they will not have speakers or microphones or things outside no ma'am if if somebody shows up with a boom box and decides they're going to play m music from their car into the building that that wouldn't be part of what we would be trying to control or able to control okay so chairman just to get back to your question um the times AR even in operational testimony the 68 resolution um there's no conditions to it but they do outline series of of times not a condition similar to what was test and what I'm seeing on on on Pete's phone is that there is an ordinance with regard to time it's 6:00 a.m. to open the business and is it 11: 11m at 11 no business between 11: p.m. and 6: a. except and I trust Mr Akens that the applicant would be looking to comply with the local ordinances as they are exactly as written okay anyone else with any questions or comments testim get before the board of be truth the whole truth yes as I know as always I have a question first now first I want to thank the for turning the light off which youly in my living room because knew how much I B it so it was turned off and it amazes anyhow I have a question if they are requiring these variances and some of them have already been grandfathered in is this an occasion where we can res resend some of the grandfather variances that were given previously so so the variance as they are is variance to use it for anything other than a bank so if they're not going to get a variance to use it for a bank then they're not going to be able to use it for a studio and they're they're going to have to come up with another plan what they've suggested is that the alternative use for this property would be residential because it's residentially Zone um and they have not proferred what that would be but uh it I don't think you get more than one there we don't have any of the data that we would need I'm talking about extremely so so but we got a tie right to the variances right so there's there's the use the inability to reuse it for this particular purpose the other thing related to the signs the signs on the door and the signs at the street and so that issue is open uh with regard to how that's going to be but that is something that they need um approval from us in order to do and the you heard about the lot coverage so if they leave it alone it's grandfathered as it is if they reduce it then we need to give a variance for it even though it's moving moving in the good direction that triggers a variance did I miss any Mr Rizo it seems to me and correct me if I'm wrong that you were asking if there was an opportunity to remove any of the variances that were granted in 1968 or or previously I remember when the lot was had trees it was vacant and had trees on there was no building there whatsoever but what I was getting to is that the what we're being asked to Grant variances for The Limited items that I've just listed for you the applicant if you have you been here for the entire hearing no I miss so so the applicant as we've gone through some things has adjusted what he's asked for and they've made some some some representations about adjustments and we've kind of done that so is there a particular thing about the site that you would propose to change to make it better well you can't deny that it's an R5 zone no no one would basically the way it is now it's the camel's nose Under the Tent as far as changing changing residential to commercial or business or whatever but that nose has been under the tent for almost 60 years right I don't even know what you guys are talking about okay off the top of the slippery slippery s what she saying I'm saying it's been it's been over that edge for years okay that's okay my comment is from what I have heard they want to paint the building or change the faing on it so that there's more white wash they want to white wash it well white wash more you can see it better my point is since it's only something that the people go to on appointment it's not an ice cream store where you've got neon Sun and you need to be seen this is something where you have an appointment and you go basically passive okay I would like to see them painted dark and make it recede into the rather than Stand Out interesting okay okay and since the pupila appears to have no use whatsoever take it all that's my comment Mr RAR is the KOA in 68 resolution sure I think it is i' like the store you know it's not the ospre is not flag we you going to find an ospr now if they don't get thepray but ospray lands on top of the people so Mr Anderson's testimony is that the proposal is to put a Weather Vein on the top which is going to have an osprey on it a Weather Vein would spin to the extent that that was actually a question and the Copa I Mr Rizzo is going to confirm it I believe is covered under 68 res yeah and and Miss Blazer's comment with regard to the color of the building the aesthetic I think is relating to the opportunity to try to make the building fit in a little bit more Reed I think was the right word for it um that that's certainly outside of the scope of what we're being asked to do but it's it's an interesting col well it increases the height sorry it does increase the height What weather the Weather Vein sure the weather veins on the table is a proposal anyone else with regard to your question like ask sir they said that they would not be increasing right excuse me sir the testimony was that the height would Notre of the Koopa but the weather veins on top of the Koopa and I don't think it exists now does it does not exist now M Blazer I'm happy to to to put that on but you gotta we got to be able to pick it up in the mic I the ex the LI I think it does and that's why I say since it serves no possible purpose other than a that it that it be taken off okay all right and I have a picture sort of you we're talking about water running down I've got a picture of River Road when it's flooded with the side of the Bank building here giving you some idea of how much flooding there is on River Road in a downpour we can't is there any way to get that into evidence we can't keep your phone SC so so hold on hold on hold on I want to Mr aens yeah so so the is that from your house that's from my house okay so you're looking out towards River Road and that's the bank across the street here's the bank the brick red can you show it to Mr R certainly I'm gonna I'm going to ask you all to quiet down please if if if you're exiting that's going to try and continue thank you Mr is there anyone else that has any questions or comments Mr chair can I just jump in because it came up the the height in my opinion is increasing now I understand that um there's a section that says C and similar small structures built on top of a grou should not exceed 4et deep 4 feet wide and six feet high this is an existing condition and I think this is being exceeded now if they're increased in height for the better so so it needs to be confirmed that the Koopa is in a resolution I believe I read it 68 resol it is in the resolution okay it's in the resolution and and so ask which power it's on page 59 so the technical question is whether or not adding The Weather Vein can be done um without exceeding the height or whether that's a permitted um accessory that would not technically trigger a variance but if it if it triggers a variance then it's a variance and and that's that's easy enough for the board to to talk about okay um again we don't want the application to rise and fall on CRA like the weather I know respectfully okay um are there any other questions or comments from the audience okay let the record reflect there's no further comments [Music] just I think we uh we need to come back to signage and I can't you know I can't feel comfortable trying to Workshop that at this hour you know three and a half hours into the hearing um I I I don't recall if there were other issues that uh that merited our attention um maybe relooking at the uh Landscaping at the the front facade there that we talked about and some of the the window tinting I think was one of the comments that was issued um let me see what else we have Jesus okay okay um I'm interested in how the board members are feeling about where we are we want to finish this I think that there are open issues with regard to some of the things that we've talked about that don't warrant being squeezed in at this moment um but I'm wondering as we've gone through it I'm going to tell you where I'm at and I'm interested in hearing where you guys are at because I think it would be a benefit to the Africans I have concerns about the parking lot I have concerns about the second user however the applicant stipulated early tonight that the requested approval is going to be for Mr Duffy and only for Mr Duffy Mr Duffy's use of the parking is not going to be the same thing as a dance studio or some other things because the way he operates his uh his business that frees up other parking to the extent that it is it is Tethered to the approval that he uses it in that manner the second story is very small and the the second user was a concern for me coming in and trying to evaluate whether or not the parking could actually accommodate it but combined with Mr Duffy's limited use of that parking the size of that space I'm recognizing the utility of it and I I I think I've come around to the idea this is where I'm at I I do have one question on the parking and that might need Jordan to answer it if it were to be a bank today what would the parking what would the parking require it would be on square footage right it would be square foot thanks are also one space square feet so the same plus room for 12 automobiles per driving window so just [Music] well they're not necessar so so the 68 approval required 22 spaces off site with regard to this particular bank's operation um the parking with regard to office is slightly less than studio um and so the if it's all studio and the single user the parking requirements are 19 yes yes 16 thank you um and with regard to the upstairs if that were to be office that would reduce it did it reduce all the way to 16 no so 15 would be the entire building culated what do split would be it was 6 6 675 remember was 674 is the usable space you have count 11 112 one for 250 so five right just can we just ask the architect to step forward which is the architect need calculate SP square footage how did you calculate from the interior of the KN walls to the height of the eight it should be on the plans that [Music] around and it should give a graphic decription of it on the the you have the the biger PLS it might be easier to see I'm just asked the question how did you do it uh we we what in the code u i I don't have a code in front of me right now um but it's graphically depicted um go I don't know if anybody has whole scale plans that the floor area diagram says 1102 but that includes all the mechanical space and I believe that's broken down by 674 for the um habitable part and 428 for the mechal but Mr aens did you calculate the entire second story when you calculated your parking requirements to 19 he did yes aund of being conservative yes including that mechanical space I see I the exterior right okay so look so here here's the relevance of of of me sharing with you where I was um what what I think is lacking in my mind is a vision of exactly how this is going to look when it's when it's done as I look at what Mr Anderson draws for the front I like the flag I like the Koopa I like the ospre I like the whitewash I like all of it I don't like the sign I don't particularly like the lighting I just like to spend more time with it it's clear to me that the applicant is is comfortable working with us to try and figure it out and get it right I'm confident that if we do it right that the project overall is is going to feel better um I start at reusing this building right I'm not I'm not actually coming in expecting um that that it's a tremendous leap to get to figuring out how to get a new user in here the question is what's around the margins what I'm interested in knowing from you guys is to the extent that I'm missing something or if you have concerns that haven't been raised want the applicant to know that because if we're not finishing now I want them to be able to take those thoughts with them when they go home we're not going to vote on anything now because we have to get it all done but if there's things outside of the margins of what I've just talked about that you want them to think about let's let them know yeah the only thing I mean I think as far play go I think it's a less intense use than the bank list to be honest with you I think it's a really good idea and a really good plan I made the comment about the outside noise because the you know the proximity to residential ASA here here in I think the biggest issue is and I like the way it looks I like everything about it the biggest issue I have is a signage in the lighting we've mitigated some of the lighting in the you know the the cornue and that sort of thing signage and some of the front lighting is really the only thing that I would focus on I think the parking is honestly I think the parking is sufficient for the use I I think the uh I think the parking is adequate for the use I think that I live on gra uh that's a loop of exactly one mile people run it all the time early in the morning to late at night uh I don't think you can keep people from running on your street I mean I think that's you know that's their perogative I'm a little concerned about about the drainage on uh on that additional Street on Colonia but I don't I don't see that that relates to this particular uh project I like frankly I like every aspect of it except the sign I'm not not comfortable with the sign I mean I didn't hear anything as far as the drainage was concerned about where the leaders from the roof go or anything like that but also that 1968 uh resolution said that in the future that the burrow could re-evaluate whether they need to put in a a dry well in the in the front there or see in the area of compliance as to whether or not there was any requests made right we don't going back but that it was considered in the resolution and spelled out in the resolution that you know that might be something to come back to even back then so I I feel super strongly that we need to be tight to the 68 resolution and if there's 17 resolution I haven't even seen it um if you're within your rights to reuse that sign because that's the analysis then then that's you're within your rights I I think that as we look at it as it's going to be that I know the discussions about planning in town I know that nobody's thinking about building the PNC like signs I know I know what people want to see the Direction moving too I think the sign can be left but with can be left but they're talking about adding to I I I understand I well they they pulled that off the table I I have no idea what a sign cost and so if this is $100,000 item I'd actually like to know that but but the drainage thing is really important to me and at the time back in' 68 they best practices seem to have been to push it all out to River Road it go into the storm drains there that's the opposite of what we do now there's no question that if there's sheet flow going to Smith it's contributing to the problem and it I don't know the answer to that but I believe that the original development was sensitive to the idea that that was a problem they didn't want this to contribute to it I don't know what the situation is or what's possible I I recognize that without proposing a brand new parking lot suggesting things that are expensive is something that we we should not take lightly but I I personally think it's important that we understand it and that if there's an opportunity to put one of those um drains that go at the entrance if it's going out Smith Street maybe it can be captured maybe there can be a speed bump put there so that it can't go that way and it just goes out the river this Blazer shows us the river is not really ready for it either but it's no it's certainly much worse on colon and if there's anything we can do to minimize that we should do it so uh chairman board members at the risk of uh interrupting for which I apologize I did review the 68 conditions and I think we can comply with all them including the one that says that if the borrow engineer in her or his discretion um requires on-site dryw or additional catch Basin on River Road then the you know we would the approval requires that to be done by the applicant now us we could certainly stipulate as to that none of the other conditions are problematic it's it says 5T on the fence we propose six feet that creates the variance I would propose that we drop the sign entirely come back to that another day so that we can have a vote this evening on the use and and the uh the minor site plan that's proposed because we're we're at that point and looking at these conditions I don't think any of them are insurmountable consider simp relate to all them and and I said the lighting work with the board's planner and the board engineer to develop an appropriate lighting plan so I'm not I'm really trying to get you there how would you propose to bate because how would we bring a new sign application when we're when we're at that point no sign no sign right that the uh the sign right now that's there has to come down as as a condition of this approval and what about the lighting the lighting would be a would be a condition of any approval to work with your professionals and our lighting professionals engineering professional what about the window sign the window sign on the door on the door no that would that would the I'm talking about the fre just the free sign I'm um I'm uncomfortable not giving the lighting adequate attention but I'm wondering if I'm wondering if we could stipulate that there's no lighting added the exterior lights I it could be part of the signage application if they want to come back and apply for lighting I mean they' already agreed to remove this light here at the driveway and the ones on the west side and the ones on the West Side what else do we have to talk about Li and the lighting is now going down flag ligh I mean the flag lighting is thing he said flag problem well but here's the thing the both the flag and the sign is they lit right now it's very commercial really it really is but the other thing is it's falling into disrepair and so so the the sense that we have of it today isn't necessarily what it would be when the applicant would be done putting in what he wanted to put we haven't been able to to Really spend time talking about we have spend a lot of time [Music] um I do agree with Mr Mr I think we're close to be a being able to there was someone's suggestion earlier that if the flag stays and remains lit it remains lit with the back of the light fixture facing River Road and the light Illuminating towards the bank so at least at the very least it's not impeding upon the like pollution of the other people can can I make another what if what if what if we set a special up because we're jammed up for the next few months anyway what what if we set a special up and we try and get you back here within the next four weeks and we just finish it all those I I purposefully hold the board because I wanted you to get a sense of where they were I'm I'm hesitant I don't know how everybody else feels I'm hesitant to say you're okay with the two users you're okay with the parking and then leaving the rest of it for fear that it won't get adjusted the way it should be adjusted I it if I felt if I felt like I'd like to do it all together in fairness I'm trying to Envision how I'm going to Fashion this resolution without putting my inage in it so ties you up not that I don't believe the applicate not that I don't have great faith in you but I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to put in that that won't choke you you know to cover the board but not well you could live without the sign so you could live without the sign and I think everybody be fine with that frankly and if if you came back assuming you did come back I'm sure we could work it out I I the lighting is it just kind of it's not quite why don't we remove all lighting then get remove all lighting come back with a new ligh come back we're gonna come back for a sign anyway so we'll come back for lighting we'll take all the lighting off the table so there's no lighting nobody could possibly complain about any lighting if we remove it all and as a pract me as a practical matter we're not going to open up without coming back and providing a lighting plan and certainly providing a sign we'll be here under the umbrella of the sign new sign but we'll also provide a lighting plant and and then that can be vetted because those are really the only two issues that that we're left with and I think we're otherwise on the on the cusp of being able to have the vote chairman board members everybody's worked very hard for the amount of discussion that we've had about the lighting and certainly the amount of discussion that we had about the lighting in the first meeting I'm surprised that we don't have a lighting well well we we we made revisions we provided the Tes a lighting plan that just shows the lighting on the prop and it also shows the I think there's a I think there's a perception again respectfully that the lighting is a bigger issue than it is take it all off the table no lighting now as a practical matter we're going to want some lighting so we'll come back and that's when we'll work with your professionals it's really a technical issue I understand and I'm I'm I hope it's translating I I I want to help you because it's been hanging out there a while okay I am I am I'm contemplating what happens if you never come back again okay you can't open up why because you're going to require us to come back with life is a condition of approval we'll subsume that with with we certainly want a sign I'm representing to you that we want a sign we're not going to operate without a sign but we have to come back for that I don't know that you need a sign to open up and I'm not sure that you need lights to open up and and I'm not sure at the end of the day that that that we could not live with that if that's what it was we would have to be able to live with what would happen I was not assuming that we would condition you opening on getting back before you because I don't know what the standard is so but the other piece of that is is 68 resolution and whatever the other subsequent ones are and that drainage issue and so just as to that would you be comfortable with the idea that there's going to be an engineering review and that that's going to be addressed I read the conditions to confer with my client I'm I accept this condition with regard I accept all the conditions that are relevant here from the 68 resolution in particular the one relating to the drainage is there is there anything with regard to the landscaping that's open is is there um is there any room back there to put a tree back there for her how did we come up with three bushes there we haven't talked about it is that I have some recommendations for what they can do to improve them so we stipulate to work with your planner as to the recommendations I don't just want that discussion here I want to hear here I want to be able to talk about it and I want to be able to do it all right okay can can we leave open the Landscaping leave open the lighting leave open the sign and and get some drainage stuff together so that we can can look at it all together we're all good with that so it's it's weird to approve it and then condition that they come back is is is that the right way to do it you could also chairman I could move to bate the application just you just vote on the use and then come back to the site the site site plan remains open do that procedur more Comfort site plan still here if we approve the use does it go you retain jurisdiction that's oh okay absolutely so with regard to with regard to the D this is the way this is the way I'm seeing it we're tethering we're tethering the first floor usage to Duffy the second floor usage is a second unit it is there's no more demising walls it's just an open space it's either Studio or it's office there's no specific user um it's a single user and and and what I would want to see in the in an approval is tethering those things together if if the Duffy situation changes and we need to start over again that Second Story needs to be understood in connection with that first story it it's like these two uses together or come back and look at it all of it that's fine sounds like a motion but I I don't want to push anybody further than they want to be I just recognize how important it is for them to get a piece of it done and the biggest piece of it time yeah I mean I didn't tell it but I'm okay on the use I'm okay on the parking I'm okay it's this sign out front that not I don't think it's in keeping with the town I don't think it's in keeping with an opportunity you get an opportunity here to change that I think you've done a great job on everything else clearly the applican is committed to working with us to working in the town and doing good work so what do you think I think think we can move no I was say I was gonna say I I appreciate your willingness to to I've done a lot of adaptive reuse it's not easy the dougas elen building is a very nice building I think everyone here is just hung up on and especially me assign and some other items but we appreciate you willing to work with us and I think you're going to do a great job and it's going to be really nice so are you good with with a vote with regard to the use I I am yes sorry and retaining jurisdiction over the S correct yes yes I am shoulder sh everybody else is good I'll make the motion uh motion is to approve the D1 variant um did you get what I said before or do I need to try and go no I got second so it's so it's the Duffy usage specific downstairs upstairs is open it's officer Studio it's a second unit but they're tied together to the extent that there is a change of the downstairs unit then that brings the upstairs unit back to the table the S plan remains open that's the mo and we retain jurisdiction and we retain jurisdiction and we're not going to need to special it's going to take you a little bit of time right correct no special take the time to do the we need side detail we need lighting detail we want to touch it once yeah we want you to touch it once it could be three months hopefully not three months okay you only you can touch things that don't relate to what we're talking about it seems to me all right but okay all right uh I made the motion I didn't hear a second skip any further discussion motion yes yes yes yes yes yes Mr yes thank you very much ladies and gentlemen we look forward to the uh the next aspect chairman if we happen to finish our plans ear might be seek the special tell us when you're ready let's look at where we're at we're going to need another 60 to 90 minutes I would assume if we got half eating for you we're going to give it to you if we have to create a special then we'll create a special happy to do so thank you so much good evening ladies and gentlemen thank you thank youone couple of quickies um minutes from the January 4th meeting I have reviewed and submitted changes I will make a motion to approve the minutes Jan yes yes yes yes yeah resolution for the contract Bo planner having reviewed I will make a motion to approve the contract of planner Mr yes yes contract board attorney having been reviewed to make motion to approve the contract you do good thanks yes uh finally board Engineers contract uh having reviewed I will make motion to approve them s Mr Mr chairman the contract we submitted um was our standard contract we understand you're probably going to want to follow the Burrow's contract next year we had a contract be last year we can't just use the same contract no we can't that's what I'm proposing we didn't submit that since it wasn't our contract but I thought the 2024 contract was the same as 2023 contract it no objection to that was so that's good I'll sign that but it is it doesn't exist tonight but I don't have that tonight know that you're good you can stay sobody to vote on that resolution or no yes you still vote on the resoltion cont Mr n yes Mr yes Mr briway yes Mr yes yes yes is that all of it on the agenda that's it we still got your special for the other meeting yeah the only other item emailed about was the scheding for the Whispering Woods so the Whispering Woods for p Peter and I are out of that but there was correspondents today saying that they're interested in getting it set and we have some dates she's got them right a very yeah well gave you a so are you all sitting on there you all need to figure out a couple of dates we can get um you just sent it this afternoon I saw your email yeah but then you um there was some additional course yeah do we need to do it at the meeting to set it up or can it be done by email tomorrow that they by email tomorrow sure all right let's let's do it that way because they're still going to have to give their notices once we decide what that how many do we need five five of us seven of us present is it a d it's a d it's a d you need seven seven and the question was did I watched I watched the the you did the hearings yes to see if there's I mik sent me did the first one I don't know what you need to to re review I think I think I wasn't there so I had they're doing it they're doing it in new because they're doing a but either way you saw it I watched a lot of it too I mean you watched all of it uh John you were there was there you you there okay so tomorrow she will circulate the dates you got to do that awkward thing of trying to figure out dates to work for everybody um we did the dates that Mr Irene share with us did the attorney on the other side no I just saw them tonight when I came in no well that's the first thing that needs to happen Okay so tomorrow send those to her tell her those are those are Michael's available dates tell her to give us whatever dates work for her and then and but then you have to fur and circulate it before those dates fill out to either one of them and then you got to get all seven to agree on that date because they need seven to be able to vote five if you have questions just reach out to me more but not next week I'm with it good be order Susan nothing all in favor thank you okay oh