##VIDEO ID:aQ_BljrFMhA## Mr you're ready to go I appreciate you getting all dressed up really nice all right ready to go all right good we're on the record this is a regular meeting of the Fair Haven zoning Board of adjustment adequate notice this meeting has been given pursuant to the provisions of the open public meetings act at the time of the board reorganization in January this year the board adopted its regular meeting schedule for the year notice the schedule was sent to and published in the Asbury Park Press on January 26 2024 and the two River times on February 1st 2024 that notice was also posted on the bullet board in burough Hall and has remained continuously posted there as required by the statute copy of the notice is and has been available to the public and is on file with the office of the bough cler copy of the notice is also cons sent to such member to the public as have requested such information in accordance with statute adequate notice having been given the board secretary is directed to include this statement in the minutes of the meeting for proceeding with the formal meeting tonight I'd like to say a few words to the applicants their experts and the audience about the role and authority of fa been Z zoning Board of adjustment the board is a separate independent Municipal legaly and its limited authorities specifically set forth in B ordinances and the New Jersey municip L's law it is CA out judicial in nature and the members of the board were unpaid volunteers appointed by the mayor and councel the zoning board does not enact the B L laws and regulations the bur Council does that the zoning board does not enforce the land use laws of the burough of Fair Haven this is the responsibility of the burough code enforcement officer this board deals with appeals for Relief and their requirements of the Burrow's Landing laws and denials by the zoning officer an applicant is never entitled to a variance also known as an exception to the zoning regulations but must meet specific criteria required of the New Jersey municipal Landes law and the Fair Haven ordinances by satisfying certain required standards approved the board has no authority to wave these requirements the burden of proof is always upon the applicant to sh that he or she is entitled to specifically requested the applicant must prove that a deviation from the regulations will advance the purposes of the ordinance and that the deviation will substantially outweigh any detriment of his own plan variances relate to the future use of the land that are not intended or authorized to remedy temporary or unique personal situations roll call please show here here Ryan here here here Mr here here Mr here please join FL FL United States America indivisible okay uh we have three matters on the agenda tonight the Gil matter the carp matter and the Mera matter uh my understanding is that two of those matters will not be heard tonight sh which ones first here the um carps matter okay and so the Mera matter in particular requested that we carry to February is correct correct and what does our current agenda look like in February of 2025 February we just okay so we have nothing else on the agenda for February okay any objections to carry the mirtha matter to the February meeting do we have a stipulation Sheila of extension time we do okay uh motion to carry the Mera matter to February 2025 agenda which is February what six six second okay I got a second I'm going to take Mr rway second given that those seconds are going to be hard to come by going forward yes [Music] yes yes Mr yes drer yes Mr yes Mr yes okay just make a general statement and place hear and you will not be a you know well you go ahead since this matter is being carried the applicant is also asked to carry this matter without having to re notice under the assumption that anybody that's here that wanted to hear this application should be here tonight there's not going to be any Ren noticing if you want to be heard on this application please come to our meeting on the 6th of February okay with regard to the carf matter uh was there any specific requests regard to a carry date uh no specific request okay um what's the schedule look like in December December we have three applications okay um January is reor okay um I'm going to make a motion to carry the car application to February 6th 2025 know second do we have a stipulation of extension tax on the Clark matter yes we do okay um that would be a motion to carry without any obligation to noce and I think I heard a second from Mr ridway yes Mr ridway yes Mr Ryan uh yes Mr or yes Dr Walker yes Mr canella yes Mr ler yes do that out of the way we're ready for the Gil matter coun I bring up all the witnesses May testify one to testify think they may have a shout out step forward please ask you to raise your right hand sorry the testimony give before the board be the truth the whole truth nothing about the truth yes okay I'm going to my general instruction is prior to your testimony if state your name spelling your last name for the record that way we know who's speaking and in case you need to make a transcript we'll be able to follow who who it is and can sit down and if you'd like I'd like to need to SAR oh sorry special swear testimony before the board truth all truth the truth okay welcome should I can introduce yourself to the board yes I'm Brian mcne with C Associates I work in the same office welcome um with your permission I'd like to Mark the list of varant statement of legal basis as and land uh development checklist and Zoning Board application as A1 this is one combined exhibit uh A2 will be the architectural plans uh revised to September 7 2024 um survey A3 dated revised to August 27 2024 uh A4 the zoning permit denial A5 color photographs of the subject property they appear to be undated there's approximately 12 images One exhibit A5 A6 Zoning Board of adjustment resolution dated April 20th 1992 and as one exhibit Zoning Board of adjustment resolution dated August 4 1983 as well as the zb1 which will be the June 14 2024 CME engineering record of the signature Gordon Rizo and zb2 will be the September 18th 2024 CME engineer report over the signat gordono there any other exhibits that you'd like to not receiv none none none that I know of at this point good evening Mr chair m the board Rick Brodsky on behalf of the applicants Robert and Janet Gil um the applicant the application before you this evening pertains to the property located at 125 Harvard Road uh in your r10 sweet chair here um I just wanted to confirm we have jurisdiction okay sorry um uh the application before you seeks variance approval to um remove the existing home and to re replace it with a new single family residence um the that new single family dwelling includes the front porch a rear patio and the and an attached a two two par garage and also a Cabana in the rear yard uh there is an existing there's an existing pool that is proposed to remain it was installed fairly recently um I guess within the last couple of years uh and so as you'll hear from the testimony as we move forward uh the proposed location of the house is being driven to a certain extent by kind of where that pool is located Mr Kor will speak to that more eloquently than I um and uh so proposal is pool to remain house to be removed new house to be uh to be constructed there are two variances that are associated with the application one is for uh maximum floor area um uh and what you'll he you'll hear about the testimony maximum FL area proposed is 4,24 uh where 3220 is permitted in the r10 3450 is permitted in the R15 we do uh and the second variant is for setback to uh an existing principle structure 40 1/2 ft are required 28.1 ft is proposed and that you'll see as we go through the testimony pertains to the attach to the attached garage the existing garage existing detached garage is supposed to be removed as well that's a u fairly significantly closer to the property line than what is proposed with respect to the the new garage so have the two variances Max F uh and the distance to adjacent um principal structure we do we are in the r10 zone the the lot is the corner lot and it's and it's fairly significantly oversized um the lot area 225 22,500 square F feet um in your AR 10 Zone um and uh we also as I mentioned the think will remain and and that was kind of the gills were trying to design the house in terms of location to kind of meet up with the pool so to speak Tony will go through that um uh so that's that's really that's really sort of the upshot of the application so I have with me this evening the the project architect Anthony koris who the board is familiar with uh and then I also have Mr and Mrs Gil who are seated uh behind me in the first in the first row the gills are residents of Fair Haven just a little background they actually rent have rented a home across the street for the past five or six years and they lived there with their three kids and they were you know uh wanted to be in Fair Haven rented in Fair Haven until the right property came on came along uh this property uh readed itself up and they were able to acquire it um and now they're looking to design the house for themselves and their three kids can I just check that we were also some yeah I guess some waivers and checklist matters can you identify those and have those been addressed or they still yeah so I could outline those um based off our review letter dated September 18th 2024 we have uh first submission waiver being the a survey that's the scale and contains are raise seal I will say we received this from applicant after the the issuance of our letter so that's no longer submission waiver uh the next one is existing floor plans uh due to the existing home being demolished we do not take any exception to that waiver further the site plan showing existing setbacks it's another submission waiver uh applicant submitted a survey that shows the majority of setbacks and we were able to scale the additional setbacks so again we take no exception that waiver and then the final waiver is a completed Freehold Soil Conservation District application uh we do not take any exception to that waiver as long as if any potential approval is conditioned upon uh obtaining Freehold Soil Conservation District any concerns about the propos waiver okay back to thank you Shar okay um if we would uh Mr candoris Tony you've been sworn already so if you would maybe just for the record we'll stipulate as toiss Condor fantastic um so Tony if you would just referring to I see you have the plan which has already been marked as a one yes in evidence up on the easel if you could just walk the board through what exists at the property uh today um and then what proposes part uh anthy condur Co D RIS and I'm a licensed architect from state New Jersey current testified in front of this board and many others uh so uh on my cover sheet here you can see we have the site plan um what you're seeing here is the proposed house uh and in the back of that proposed house you'll see a pool and that is the existing pool that um Mr Bry was speaking of um the position of the house as we proposed it is uh was based on the location of that pool and that's why the house is sitting where it is it's centered on the rear P of the house um and that's what caused that that that's what causes the uh side setback to the setback to the adjacent property variant and was I right what what's required is 40.5 ft and we're at 28.1 yes yes on the existing plan right and uh there is a current DET detach garage in that same spot that's only 5 ft from the uh property line so that's significantly closer so we are improving that condition okay okay um let's let's talk about the uh and when we say when I said that the the location the proposed location was dictated by the pool what what what's the little detail maybe when you're going through the floor plan that'll be clearer right it's well I could I could briefly say that the the main living area of the house is across the back and it's the kitchen family room okay dining area and it's centered on the pool okay got it so let's take a look at the L plan so yeah we um so we have a very common layout for the first floor uh Center Hall Colonial I guess for like a better description um the main living area is is across the back of the house that people do like to most of most part live in in their backyard so we we tend to put the living space in the back of the house the main living space uh but we have an office and a guest bedroom in the front of the house and uh between the gar between the attached garage and the house you have a l that connects the two second floor uh four bedrooms um not particularly oversized uh fairly decent Dimensions 128 by U about 15 for the kids bedrooms and master bedroom is 20 by4 we do we are proposing a a bonus room in the Attic uh it is it is permitted by the ordinance and uh does not contribute to the floor area uh we do need all the credentials criteria to have that not count store area and we are also proposing a finished basement which um is less than 30 in from the first floor to the gra to the grade which Al eliminates the need to count that into spare footage understood and what's proposed for that Sellar area uh we have a large open area for entertainment a gym and a store okay let's the elevation uh we have very this is the front elevation uh very symmetrical very traditional looking um a roofs and that kind of carries through for the rest of the house the rear has a very similar look uh so I think this this style of house is uh it's more Timeless than some other some the other trendar things that you see so I think it'll it'll fit in the neighborhood quite well for years okay and then just speak just let give the board some info with regard to the existing home and you know kind of the thought process in in building new as opposed to right utilizing that home well the existing home is is a pretty old house uh it's got low ceilings it has compartmentalized layout uh all those factors are not your typical they don't meet the modern living standards of today so right um that's the reason for removing the house to build smaller kitchen small kitchen low ceilings so the idea was that that the gills with their with for the three kids we're all kind of tall actually yes um uh the house would work for them right cor for the now we talked about um um did did you have you decided on materials with respect to the elevations or um yeah it's going to be a a plat boo siding uh for most of the house and some uh wardon baton Accents in the front Okay um so we talked I mentioned earlier the the two variances that are associated with the with the application uh one you touched on already which is the the setback to the adj to the principal structure on the adjacent property um and that's and that if you go back to the first to the covered page that's with respect to the garage okay um and then with regard to the maximum floor area um and before before you you answer that um other than the two variances the floor area and that setback to the adjacent principal structure am I correct that the proposed home complies with all other all of the other zoning criteria including building building coverage and ratio and all of that um and in your opinion based on the oversiz uh uh nature of the lot I guess is what twice as almost twice as large as that committ 11,500 is required and 22500 22,500 okay so can the property handle the the the proposed home uh in terms of uh yes I believe the floor are ratio sort of dictates uh that that it does fit uh does fit on a lot because we are under the floor aration okay now under the ordinance right the the uh the applicant is entitled to uh the benefits of up zoning if you will just explain that yes so um this lot meets uh meets all the criteria to be able to up Zone to the R15 which um has a habitable floor area allowed of 3450 and a floor area ratio of 02 okay so but again we still don't comply even with the up Zone to R15 with the maximum floor area yes and the reasoning for that is because of the U oversized nature of the lot right which is why it keeps the F number reduced the F number goes down but it can handle a larger square footage a larger square footage overall okay um quick question I know the ordinance does not permit it but I know that we looked at R20 Zone as well right and there the maximum floor area uh um permitted is 40 4140 4,140 yes so um uh I assume you looked at that when L sort of sitting process in terms coming up with something that met the needs of gilds but also was yes and the r the R20 Zone has an allowable story ratio of .18 and we we tried to say that um questions from Mr what does the note on the plans mean with regard to under your up Zone analysis will comply with prevailing setback would there as proposed would the house comply with the requirements for our 15 um well the prevailing setback is the average um which is now required in fa so it if that's what the question you asking was it will comply with the average setb I asked whether it will comply with the ordinance I'm familiar with the prevailance set oh yeah it's actually behind what the ordinance requires 35 ft is what the ordinance requires for the front and we are proposing 36.2 and if you were to locate this in the R20 Zone would all the requirements of the R20 Zone publicos I think you missed the front I think it's 50 feet front in R20 well yeah we're not um no it would not it would not meet all the R20 setbacks and bul so just we we were focusing more on the floor area ratio right but if we're going to use R20 as a comparison which was introduced I'd like to understand where it wouldn't be in compliance with R20 right I don't have the R20 Zone comp R2 Zone requir unfortunately on the cheap um to go through all of them but uh but right right I think Todd we looked at I mean I know I don't have of me but we do we did I don't know if it's the setx comply but the front setx uh but I think it's the rest but I'm not sure yeah the front set back is 50 and the sides are 14 and 35 right right which we we do meet the meet the sides but we don't meet the front that's correct okay can you so you're asking for a variance about the setback side set yes did you show and I understand you want to have everything symmetrical to the pool but the pools already existing so we're kind of now backing everything into the pool you show if we shifted the house over so it is compliant with the side setback where it would be uh yeah we'd have to move it f Fe to to the East and it was is that basically what that line is right pretty much yeah okay and then there's also another the Cabana that is well the Cabana meets the accessory building setbacks okay the house that's on the adjacent lot and I know you probably don't have the the number but do you think is it compliant are they deficient on their side yard at all do you think or is it it well I I measured myself not with a surveyor and that's why I have plus or minus um 8.5 ft measuring to the the most extreme side of that house I think that's a 75 by 150 and I think that's new construction I think it's fully deform okay you know how big the existing house is where I do not the square footages of the attic the third floor and the basement sell do you have those numbers um I know they're not on here it's not habitable but I'm just curious I don't but I can tell you the basement is um more or less the same as the first floor okay and the attic is a you know has slope sailing so certain parts of it are 7 ft low isn't there a maximum size of the third floor there is so it has to has it can't be any more than3 floor below at foot Mark can you flip to the plan because to my eye it look closer to 50% well that's because you're seeing areas that are below 7et that are less than 7 feet so we we you calculate if you see the dash line in the middle that's the 7 foot line I see to to add to that we did calculate they're at 22% so they they would comply with the hat 22% of the third story has a clear ceiling height and access to 7 ft yes so is part of the bathroom slopes down there on that third floor yeah yeah there's a little bit of slope in the backom all right so Mr ask the question where's the hardship well you know um I don't necessarily know that there's a hardship but I mean we look at we look at a balancing test right and we we talk about the benefits versus the detriment under C2 analysis um you know we've got a couple of benefits here I mean uh you know it's for the the appropriate population densities we've got you know we've got an oversized lot here that that can house this this structure and the extra what is it 600 square ft that we ex the the R15 for we don't see a negative impact on the Zone plan and and and the zoning ordinance and or to the public based on the fact that uh oh and another benefit also that Mr candoris had uh reference was um uh removing that existing non-conformity with respect to the existing garage uh and uh um improving it not removing the nonconformity but improving it by a fairly significant amount from the 5 feet in property line up to the what is it 19 19 19 and change and then on the negative on the negative uh side Mr chair we uh we don't see any negative impacts Tony actually let let let me ask you to speak to that um is it your opinion that the the variant these two variants can be granted without substantial detri to the public I yes I do think that the lot is the house the lot can support the house um and if you compare some of the other Lots in the surroundings proportionately this this house takes over much less of the lot than some of the other houses do can the neighborhood support the house though that's the can the neighborhood support house yes I believe so so the spirit of the balancing is that if the council were to evaluate this lot on its own that they would agree that the application of The Proposal uh is actually more in line with the suitability for the neighborhood and the balance of the ordinances than how the strict application would play out what we have is we have an r10 Zone we have an ordinance which permits an upzone to R15 and we have access square foot footage of know percentage off the top 20% of what the of what the ordinances currently provide so where is it that we think that maybe Council would see this as better than the current ordinances in place well Tony let me put that to you I mean if we um I think the chair's question is is the maximum Flor area that is limited a that's proposed for this Zone which is essentially designed for an R 10 or 10 or 15,000 foot lot um um here we have a lot that's over 20,000 square fet is that more in keeping from a from a visual perspective and a zoning perspective to have a slightly larger house on a larger lot than than the smaller house that that is governed by the national yes I I believe this this slot more than handle this house um 600 feet may sound like a lot but if you if you compare this to a compliant house and you you look at the bulk of each house it would it would not look that much different okay so then why can't you apply them no oh we could comply for sure but just saying that visually this house does not overwhelm the surroundings okay what what would be different Mr pondor about your design if you were to take out 600 square feet what what would be where would you start well the house would be a couple feet narrower and maybe a couple feet less deep it looks like there's a lot of hallway I guess because of the nature of the stairway wrapping around uh you went to a single stair single Live Well yeah that's one that's one place you could take spare footage out although the wide hallway was a nice nice thing to have so that's why went for that it's a beautiful design it's it would look great in North for sure yeah and the other the other variant you're asking for is soer setback and I understand you want everything zeroed in on the pool but if you shifted that over it would actually be centered more in the lot as opposed to how you have it now it's you know it's heavy on one side you have a lot of empty space on the Cambridge Side you're saying despite the fact that a lot is large it still is it have a variance yeah you're up against where you could easily shift the house over right you know I know you want to look out the back window and enjoy your pool but you can turn your head over pool well well look I I would see the um a basis to argue with regard to the flexible C perhaps we can't put a basement in because you've got a high water table the ordinance has a fix for that the ordinance provides for the bonus room on the third story not only do you have a basement you also have the bonus room taken care of um and you've also got the opportunity to use the up zoning um it seems to me that you've availed yourself of all of the flexibility that the ordinances already provide for you and that's not enough it's going to live like 6,000 square feet so Tony if you if you were you were able to uh I guess you could reduce the size of the H if you shifted it right if you reduce the size of the house it would also shift it to a certain extent it would it would automatically get more narrow but I don't know if it would if it would get you to the full uh no not without not without literally moving it no I think it might it might give us maybe two to four feet but two to four feet to down to the 600 to remove the 600 that's what you're asking if we had to remove it and make it reduce the square footage uh that would still not solve the setback problem unless we also shifted the house understood Mr goris could we see your elevations real quick please so the benefit of being here many times is we get to move right through your qualification can stipulate as your qualification as a professional architect you know this board you know that this is a corner I'd like you to tell me what part of the design of the Cambridge facing elevation has been designed in consideration for the fact that it's a second front uh well this is that side that you're talking about the left side elevation and it does have some design elements on it it has the the chimney and that the two story window that we have there so um wasn't designed as a second front um I can't I can't say that but it's a there was thought behind how how it looks from the side if that makes sense I me with with the amount of land if you kept the house where it is I think you should have shipped it over but let's say you kept the house there you could put a wrap porch on that and still probably meet how easily and make it look more appealing because I mean ideally I know you have the pool everything but like in Rumson they're turning houses around they just did one on on M Street buav Vista where they shied it to buav Vista off of circle you know so oh yeah yeah so all right more any no I mean I I think I hear the board um um I mean is the board trouble by if if trouble by that side setback to the adjacent uh it's an improvement on what's there now with the existing 5 ft given that it's new construction you know obviously anything towards looking to eliminate it is desirable okay well same time it's it's based on what's on somebody else's property whether that is compliant or not I understand it's the will of the council to do that let's just clarify it's not a sidey setback variance no it's it's it's a layover requirement that the houses be separated and in this particular Zone if you did the two 7 and 1/2t sides to one another you're never going to comply with it so I mean I understand that it you need a variance for it but bother me one bit yeah I mean I I look at it it's new construction we've talked about this you know if it's new construction we should try to get as compliant as we possibly can and you have the opportunity now to fix that existing condition and you know not just proove it but bring it in lawn probably one of the only houses in the neighborhood that you actually could comply with our PL yeah given a lot and we're stuck with you want it where it is and I get why you want it where it is but it's because the pool is there and weren't for the pool you probably wouldn't be in front while you would be for yeah I mean and if it weren't for the fact that the pool is virtually brand new no fair enough how big is the pool let's say 50 ft long no no it's 30 not even it's a pretty small it it seems like the Tails wagon the dog yeah exactly In fairness you got a $3 million project being dictated by a $50,000 po yeah I hear you and the design I I like the design and it fits in with the neighborhood it just you know if we're gonna guess I don't want to repeat myself but the opportunity to fix things fix just so everybody knows there's nothing about that side that Cambridge elevation that says push me closer to the street nothing but no it's not aack it doesn't it doesn't look good from C so so the best thing you're going for it is that it's not 35 ft from Cambridge it's 52.6 well what I mean once you landscape that side see the landscape it doesn't convince me I I think we're hang hung up on on the whole project hung up on the pool and I think it's something we can include the 600 extra no fair enough but the of probably more significant than theid of the much more prevailing given that you've got the basement and the and the third floor L all right so we're moving into deliberation Mr Bry do you have anything further for the board um I don't Mr chair but um I think we should open to the public Mr we can do that all right why don't we do that first you have anything with regard to your engineering yeah so just a couple of things uh on our review letter we essentially recommend uh a drywall for the construction of the home that's something You' be able to comply with yes we'll have engineer designed okay and then similar to I assume you could do the soil testing required for both the dryw and any basement um the one other thing is I know there's an existing Tree on the property can you confirm that would uh remain yes we uh we actually deliberately design the driveway the way you see it is the tree that one tree time is still um thanks for watching sure um I think I know the answer is this does not back up to the nature area right there no no no it doesn't Okay up the street for long yeah then really the last thing last uh two things I have here is just confirming if the B will be open air instru and as well as compliance with rsis standards um the parking yeah yes we do we do provide one uh three spots behind the set back and sorry last one is there's an existing retaining wall when your fence along the frontages um it seems like it's bordering the property line uh I know in our letter we're asking for the location and height to be verified on the survey I think on the newer survey isn't it showing on the newest the latest survey is it a retaining wall or is just a wall it's a it's a low it's just a wall so yeah it's a wall and then a fence we do have some pictures in our review letter yes it's right inside theer did that answer the question about the wall y that's all that's all give any further no that's it Mr Bry do you have anything more on your case of Chief I don't open it to the public yep okay I'd like to uh welcome the public to uh have any comments or questions with regard to the Gil application anybody's interested ask you to step forward give your name and your address the record please Mike we're going to swe you in real quick the testimony before the board be the truth the whole truth talk about the truth yes I do can you spell your last name from the record o c o and is Nancy Z is and zebra o l o how many I questions I had were there were a bunch of sort of trees in and around the property and and so we directed but where you guys are going by way designful um I'm just curious what going happen with all the other sort of trees that are around that just because because of the Privacy nature of the And to clarify you're immediately ajason on Harvard yes on Cambridge ohri iMed behind yeah okay right coverage so just curious that's why I'm curious sorry so the question was what's going to happen on the southernly perimeter boundary of property and Mr brosy what's the answer for the record please uh the answer is they're not going to remove any of those there's no intention to remove any of those trees okay thank you anyone else step forward step forward youly spare the testimony given before be the truth whole with the truth I do okay could you spell your last name for the record please yes o l s o n that's two o's to short six of us and I'm 220 King Avenue thank you thanks to the board for all your work thanks to the secretary for all her work um so we've been at 220 Cambridge Avenue for 20 years um on as we're looking at the street on our left guy with four O's took down a house and built up a beautiful 3200 foot house it was great Improvement the rights they took down a house you know put up 3200 foot house it was great across the street directly across they took down a house put up a 3200 foot house it was great an improvement and slightly to the right next door to them another 3200 foot house went up I don't know R5 r10 R15 R r10 38 I don't know anything about that stuff but I know that those 3200 foot houses more Improvement to the neighborhood now two doors down where they're going to put this house up um I think 3200 foot has been great for the neighborhood I don't know if there's already an ordinance in place why can't we just comply to the ordinance me are we going if we start if you guys give a variance here in five years are we going to do on a similar lot 4200 4500 in 20 years are we going to be at 5,000 when does it end can we keep the character of the town I love Fair Haven I love the Trees of Fair Haven I love what Fair Haven looks like I am very happy and love the improvements that Fair Haven has done in these residences I love Cambridge and the college area we had a discussion 10 years ago when someone split a lot and needed variance and variance was given on a 15 foot field I don't know when it ends I love the neighborhood keep the neighborhood the way it is the ordinance is there please don't make a variance Mr Olson I'm one of the few people that are prone to answering rhetorical questions and I'm going to answer yours so this project can only move forward if the applicant is granted a c varians there's two types first one's a hardship on the record there's been testimony that there is no hardship and that the applicant can comp back the other type of variance is a flexible C Mr brsk he described what he believes is the basis on which the board Grant the variant and we talked a little bit about whether or not there was agreement as to his argument relative fle but the answer to your rhetorical question is that the only way you're going to build more than 3220 is with the upzone to R15 and the only way you're going to build more than the 3450 through the R15 up zoning is if this qu against back thank you very much than anyone hi please for the testimony before the B will be the truth all truth yeah can you spell your last name for the record please l n t no o okay I'm sorry goe um I am the adjacent property on Harvard Road right next door um I just had few questions um also just to point out I know that you guys kep saying 600 feet over but it's really 804 square feet over just wanted to put that on the record no it's not actually from the number you have any allowance well let me let me clarify in r10 the permitted square footage maximum is 3220 if you upzone for the ordinance you can up Zone to 3450 Okay so we've been talking about number at 3450 but there's a requirement that if you're going to take advantage of that you need to comply with regard to all of it including 3450 and when you don't it's not an issue and you're right because they're not complying with it and it is in excess of the 3220 thank you for for pointing that out yes I think what I was wanted to bring which you guys kind of already talked about is um you know the whole thing about centering it on the pool and and leaving so much to the left like I I understand that pleasing wise but I mean my pool is not centered on my house and we built our pool I had to get all the ordinances and everything so I know this process I know it can be a long process um and I just had a few questions also about uh the Cabana that's being built um next to my living room how far is that from the property line about 16 ft and I assume that's yes compant yes um and then in terms of going over the law coverage like building the patio building all that like when when we built our pool we ended up having to fail down because we were told about um like going over it could cause drain drainage issues we have a pool I know next on cber they have a pool as well um we both built ours within the last year used the same company that 125 Harbor Ed so if going over the loot coverage and building um these extra patios and stuff does that have any effect on drainage and potentially causing issues in either of our backyards we're not proposing the go to exceed the allow allow lock coverage so we will be under the allow allowed for the Zone in terms of like anything impious patios pool just I'm trying to follow everything that's been tonight so and we also um for the board Engineers request we we we are are have been told that they want to have a drywall property so the dra that will be for drain okay and then similarly um on our side where the trees are like are any of those being impacted as well I don't I don't believe no there second um yeah I think just along with what everyone else said I know that they keeps talking about this R15 but that's not the zone that we are in um and I know there's ordinances and to get approved for it and again I I like you said you kept in line with you know the design of the neighborhood and it is a beautiful house I just want to make sure that you know nothing changes and and in terms of you know the the backyard and the plan and the cavana and everything just that um just really making sure that nothing thank you thank you anyone else I'm Ken Santos I live at 2011 Cambridge Avenue S to so I'm currently next door to theills you so the testimony before the board would be the truth all truth I the TRU yes thank you um I'm just in agreement with the other neighbors about being in compliance I think the gills as a family are a great addition to the neighborhood we are friendly with them I'm friendly with the sons and the daughter um I just I'm I'm more concerned about the compliance of the size of the house than anything else again it is a beautiful home it looks great according to what I can tell from my Layman's eyes on the plans um I just don't I'm just not sure why we have to not be compliant in this Zone thank you thank you anyone else okay close public Mr chair I'm gonna make a request I could ask the board's Indulgence um um I and we've heard the comments from the board and the public and what I'd like to do is to have the opportunity and I spoke to the client already take a look at the plan and see what we can do to get us closer to compliance uh and and still remain palatable to the to the guilds that's acceptable to the board this evening or for another day for another day I assume the board would want to see everybodyy do you want to you want to hear some of our 100 because I think that you might learn learn your your board's comments are very valuable if I can put that happens just you you've heard the comments just before you begin your deliberation um I agree with everything the chair said before a shorthand way to take a look at the C2 variants here's what you're dealing with in light of the session the C1 doesn't apply in this instance basically under a C2 and our courts spoken to this cannot benefit the the variance cannot benefit the property owner alone it must actually benefit the community and serve as a better alternative uh than the present Zone plan in place so then that's you've had a concession no we don't have a hardship but this is a better zoning plan than what's in place for this if you can't find that um if it only benefits the property owner the applicant may not have met their burden I'm I don't want my comments to slay one way or the other but that's basically how our courts have interpreted the C2 variants okay Dr aler you have um you have thoughts you want to share with the board I I do uh I I don't think it's too large a house for the property but I think it's too large a house for the neighborhood and uh uh even if you upgrade one zone you're at 3450 not 4024 uh especially with the pickup that you have from the basement and the attic and I also believe that with new construction you should confirm you know you should you should confirm uh with new construction you some time to the code or have a pretty darn good reason why you can't and those are those are my thoughts yeah I don't have much more to add to to skips comments it's just a lot of house with the neighbor I mean is that second floor is four bedrooms four bathrooms a laundry three Walkins plus there's another the first I just realized yeah and like I said during earlier testimony it's going to live like 6,000 square feet M yeah yeah I think especially destruction getting close to what the neighborhood looks like Mr ol made a great Point there's a lot of under construction on those streets they're all you know just like we have Ro few hundred keep the neighb looking like it's what it's going to um as I said I think I said everything I'll just kind of summarize way I feel the design I like the I mean it's an oversized lot so yes you could put kind of bigger house there but sounds like the neighborhood and other people here have issues with that you know if it was a renovation maybe there's different considerations but there's no hardship so we're looking for tradeoffs I don't really see any trade-offs here you know we have conditions that can be corrected they should be corrected um you know and that's our job here um so you know that's my feeling and I think you the understanding is there I also think we can do a better job with KY said do a lot better yes absolutely yeah I think the governing B recognized that there's a lot of lots and kind they oversized and they want to give the means to stop Z I think it's a pretty nice way to do it but to go beyond that I just don't see any justification I think you could build a beautiful home as Mr Condor said that look much the same that would come in right at 3450 and I think it would have everything at the applicants would would be we we don't have an old ordinance it's new I and it's been reviewed and what it doesn't say is that you should be able to build a house that's in direct correlation with the size of your lot it says that in this area you're supposed to build 2,800 ft and you can go up to 3220 if you're oversized the ordinance says that if you can do it you can do a habitable basement you can enjoy it and you can live there as long as it doesn't come more than 30 Ines up above grade It also says that you can put a bonus room in your attic that you can use and that doesn't count against the Cal the council specifically reviewed um issues with regard to sizing and trans in the marketplace and did not elect to change anything um there's nothing about this that's consistent with the spirit of the ordinance and I recognize that we have a lot of Neighbors in here and everybody's friendly and we have nice families and that's just not a part of the ordinance it's just not a basis on which we can go variant I really appreciate the Neighbors coming out it always helps to hear from them um but without them this on its face is a problem I think um the comment about the second front and and how that looks in this proposed new construction to bring that up to looking like a second front isn't even part of a tradeoff it's it's part of just where you start yeah face level um you know that's not like a benefit thing neighborhood that's just making it what it should be as a second frage um me personally I I understand the idea behind the the distance to adjacent structure ordinance but anytime that you like the prevailing setback ordinance anytime that you tie someone's ability to do something on their property to what's happening on property that's outside of their control whether that property is compliant or not um I I sort of have difficulty prioritizing that over other issues that I see um but the as Marty said the the governing body recognized that there are oversized Lots and that you may be able to up Zone because of the extra square footage but at the same time a lot longer ago than that they recognize that there should be some limit to what you get for having that extra square footage and they put a cap in place um and this doesn't really even approach the cap on an up Zone um I understand that it may be under the cap for an R20 and it may have the square footage I don't know what the setbacks would have to be um or any of other on on an R20 on this lot but the other issue is that you're not near any R20 house you're near a whole bunch of 75 foot wide r10 lots to get their square footage from the depth of 150 foot deep lot you got houses that are taking up a significant portion of the width of the the lot you've got a pretty consistent visual Trend between all of these with the exception of this corner lot that's twice the size um so it's it's it's it's hard to you know balance that the fact that it's 2200 22,500 foot lot but at the same time I think that it does have to fit into the neighborhood in addition to fitting into the lot you want to share anything with us Mr I would um I would agree with most what has been said um and I too do appreciate you know the Neighbors coming out and communicating their concerns we always struggle with the new construction we always struggle with corners and I I believe it's already been eloquently stated to the reasons why so I think if we can focus and address uh that corner facing front I think as it was said and and the size clearly as you know we we have this conversation over and over again this is not the first time we've said these things so there's no surprises here so I think it's clearly um this is one of those cases where I I think you we are all struggling and in fact the the neighbors are struggling as well so nice usually it's just usually it's just Dr Dr No but yeah it's a beautiful house um I I think you know I think it's clear um and I didn't hear a hardship really much of one as well so I think we can I think this is also a good example of um what this board does and and how we work together and collaborate and have a conversation about what needs to be done and I think I think you have some homework to do y yeah novel novel points no nothing that hasn't already been said beautiful design you know as usual um you know I just think in a funny kind of way you almost didn't have to you almost didn't have to be here right like you could Shi the house and just make it the appropriate size and maybe come into the up zone or maybe it's just administrative but this is like a you know kind of like a big exercise of of almost not what what not to do right I mean it's just just a really agree just ask it's beautiful the lot's oversized the neighborhood's nice we get it um yeah I just it's I'm struggling to understand the thought of why this would even be something that you know maybe even on the margins would be something that would be acceptable to almost anyone here and not in a disrespectful way it's beautiful and I know you have three kids and I just it's it's tough It's a big it's a big house for a smaller neighborhood in my [Music] opinion Mr Ro um I guess uh your your request to carry this is it standing request yes please so Mr Brodsky at this point we've just scheduled to applications for February we have three applications in December and we have a reorganization meeting in January um I I don't know how the other board members feel but I'm concerned that our J our December applications won't all get completed and we're going to get pushed back um um and so I I don't know how people feel about putting you on third for February or presumably first for March any board members have any thoughts on that no I mean we need to keep January clear because you know there's going to be run over from the Zone if on on the up Zone did an administrator y approval y so just to put that out there if it did comply properly with the up Zone there's you don't have to come back corre so if timing is important to you there is that option so I'm not you know we don't here had nothing to do with us right that that that ordinance was put in place at our urging so that there was more flexibility than already in the just and just to be clear I'm not suggesting you wave your right to any follow on or anything I I'm just simply stating if you wanted to do that you don't have to come here again less money less time less headache all right Mr chair could I could we could we carry to February and then we can as we get closer if another drops off or something make a judgment call I I because we have January as our reord meeting and we typically do here business in January I feel like we have a place to push people from December so putting you for third in February without hearing any objection from other board members is something I'm willing to me sure okay it's so without objection I'll make a motion to carry the Gil application to the February meeting I need a stipulation on the record of an extension of time to act Mr BR agreed um that would be without any obligation or re notice thank you m chair appreciate we just need to vote quick second one last time yes yes yes yes yes yes couple of admin items minutes from the October 10th meeting reviewed and nothing to change and make the motion to approve didn't even yes yes yes yes yes yes minutes from the October 21 special meeting I will make a motion to approve second sorry yes everyone we're just going to try and finish up so if you want to talk maybe you can do it in the hallway yes thank you guys yes yes yes uh resolution for Nelson 28 B Gillespie I'll make a motion to approve as submitted yes are you allowed to Second all look no that that was a special meeting yes Mr for yes yes yes yes uh guys we didn't do an annual report for 2023 we need a volunteer you know what I'll do it you excellent Mr did we do it no yeah oh that was last year we2 they just submitted it but that's just the report with the line graphs hold on so so the way this gets constructed is that the raw data typically comes from you um and what that raw data is is effectively the applications that we heard during the year 2023 yeah and you can see in the prior reports Mr Forte can work with you do I have a second volunteer to work with Mr Forte sure I'm alter altered it I would like to commend Mr Ryan alter H little Mr Forte does not make as good to Manhattan as I do welcome to so Marty I appreciate that I appreciate that because not for alternates so Marty so Marty's done it before so you can help Sheila understand how to pull it together um and I appreciate your help thank you very much apprciate it would be super awesome to have such a thing on the agenda for December to be able to adopt it before we move into two years app um but uh realistically do the best you can and thank you sure okay Mr chairman a note on your annual report if I could be heard briefly sure hi everyone how are you this evening good hi um you are aware that the planing board is beginning to look at the master plan we're approaching our 10e Mark when the intention is to up renew our master and before 2026 um with that in mind the your end reports are really a critical piece of the land use review component of Master land so I wanted to suggest or renew my suggestion that you compile and I don't necessarily this is a a board members job you have a secretary you have a planner have an engineer but perhaps between the staff um they could support a correlation of last annual reports with maybe executive summary that looks at the takeaway there's some consistency in your applications you get the review and outcome um but perhaps we got to have an overview of um maybe a few years seven years or something like that but larger than three maybe it's the idea the master plan is a 10e document and if you have 10 years of inal reports we do that would be helpful I think I gave them to with it did could you have the staff prepare a summary of them not I didn't do a summary but planner could look at a just kind big picture and kind of coate the categories that come in so we can it'll help us isolate any kind of land ass that would need tweaking adjustment um My Hope Is that we have fewer applicants coming to the zoning board um the pathway to that outcome is unknown and will probably take some time but your annual reports are is the perfect guidance to hopefully I think the one that Mr labarra did three years ago maybe it was covered more than just that year I think he did a it was like a two or three year one I remember it was a multiple years Trend thing so that'll probably be very helpful that would be just build on top of a that's exactly the idea um and then I will many people didn't even get that report for perhaps discussion for another time but um I will ensure that that gets properly uh distributed so miss Cole we um we really hit a lot of the most important stuff that has historically um pled the zoning board process in the um changes to the ordinance that we implemented a couple of years back um there was we almost at at times I called it the lwh Hang fruit yes um and we did a lot um there were things that we didn't address and what we should do is we should be going back to look at that list of things that weren't addressed um and I think to be honest with you that the serious issues um we fixed um and that's not to say that there aren't more things that we should do our ordinances should be living documents um and we'll put in an effort to give you uh what you've asked for and certainly support um whatever the next round of uh potential modifications you have more Pres independent of the master plan riew right the um associated with that is a conversation we had a few months ago about reinstituting the land use committee to kind of roll up our sleeves and sort look at some of that stuff um at the same time our new B administrators coming on board and obviously waiting through a mountain of things but the it's anticipated I can't speak for um the mayor and but I at least it was discussed that that could be something we could start in the new year after reor yeah I similarly had that sense and um you know the zoning board members are ready to the extent that they're engaged to have those discussions and try and figure out what that list looks like and then work on discussions about Solutions or changes that accommodate the concerns great thank you than okay um any anything else from the public nothing else from the public anything else from the board nope it's Mr rway last night um we've sort of made reference to it all night uh John thanks so much appreciate it would you best now thank you uh chairman Vice chairman board member secretary councel advisers it's um been a great 10 years or more I'm not or more or more or more I think tonight is a good example of what work is done here um not easy work um but I just wanted to thank you for the opportunity it's really been a privilege working with everybody here I think it's always um you know remark ourselves you know is it good for the bur I always I always think of that when it come to these meetings and I think everything we do is for the good of the bur burrow we start off the meeting which is great so keep that attitude and shouldn't be a problem and when you said sadly leave Fair Haven know that you left a little of you in Fair Haven and we thank you for all that you've done to help us shape this community get a drink yeah motion to all in favor you meet all be M you going across street yeah but this worked out perfectly for you tonight the opportunity to go have at least two TRS I was going to say it would be fitting if we ran across and not move as close that would be the true that really would be oh no no no we're doing last call it's not that would very very Nish the one that you can go there listen was last month we all run down the crawl across the street thanks Fork you Frank I would help but I'm an alternate I know and by the way I want to stand I I heard the alter by the drink [Music] come back please don't come back Central New York yeah that's fine yeah just just hold until we get that anything slowly in response I'll react directly since the 70 it's really start we got