##VIDEO ID:AYyohuseI0g## [Music] let's call this meeting to order thank you uh will begin as we always do with uh with public comment so uh if you have anything you wish to say to the board that is not about something on the agenda this is the time to do it and if you wish to speak um to the board or during the meeting please come over here to the microphone otherwise what you're saying isn't taken on fctv and taken home so it's incomplete so if you're going to come speak give your name and state your position and then say what you have to say is there anyone has something they want to speak speak on not on the agenda okay then we can begin um Paul minutes mam chair I re since this meeting was only 12 minutes long was relatively easy to do the minutes I recommend approval the minutes of November 18th 2024 as written second second favor I approved thank you Paul um next we have uh two continuations actually on uh on the agenda for a public hearing Steven Marsh a definitive plan application to create a three lot subdivision at zero old Barnstable Road um this has been before us a few times they have requested a continuance to January 14th Pat could you read that yeah um can you please extend our meeting until January 14 2025 if we are doing another site walk with p3c but it's also the decision decision date the January 31st okay so two motions The Continuous and decision date move to January 31st is there a second second all in favor I it's done next a public meeting um Kevin Clow on behalf of the Cape Cod uh YMCA also requesting a continuance to January 14th you have that motion hang on minut I got to turn my page here yep okay um please consider this email a former request to continue the site plan review hearing date until January 14th 2025 and to extend decision deadline until January 30th 2025 and this is in regard to the YMCA YMCA is there a second second all in favor I it's done okay now we have um a piece of business we have to pay attention to lawence Lynch realy Corp a site plan review application to construct a solar voltaic carport P canopy system over a gravel parking area at 459 blacksmith shop Road um and it's actually modifying a uh planning board site plan review approval from 2019 so this was uh filed November 6th and it can go the deadline on it is uh February 4th who will be speaking on this request public notice I'm chair the public notice of this uh uh subject was published on 1122 24 and 45 but is were notified by regular mail okay if you could introduce yourself please yes ma'am uh good evening my name is Mike Patterson I'm here representing next grid and blacksmith shop solar uh with me is Melinda Costello from Wesson and Samson Engineers uh good evening Madam chair and members of the board uh on June 19th excuse me junee 20th 2019 the planning board this planning board approved an application submitted by bgo Solar Systems Inc uh that application consisted of two arrays referenced as the North and South arrays we are here tonight requesting a minor modification to that approval to constru to construct the northern array uh the current existing site is used as a sand Quarry pit it is located within the agricultural a zoning district and the solar overlay District it is not within the coastal Pond overlay Water Resource protection Zone oh apologize it is within the Water Resource protection Zone apologies uh and there there's currently no Wetlands located within or abing it uh our project that we're proposing is to construct a large canopy Ed solarway with battery energy storage system this project will have an estimated lifespan of 20 to 30 years uh we are here currently requesting the minor mod approval for we are only requesting approval for the construction of the solar aray at this time is there anything else you'd like to tell us about this project um I can give some additional information on the um the storm water design associated with the project um so as he mentioned and this is for the northern P portion of the array do I have access to um we go um so this is the northern portion of the site the existing array to the South um the south side of the site is over here on uh to the east of the um the existing gas easement um so as Mike mentioned um this is an existing sand qu pit um so what we're doing is we're just proposing to do some grading along the side slopes of the array to expand the footprint um within the center of the site um we are proposing to um grade the site with a high point right in the middle and pitching it to the East and the West to two storm water infiltration basins um the area within the solar array is going to be a gravel footprint there's three individual equipment pads that will be um surrounded by by a 7ft tall chain link fence um for compliance with the National Electric Code um the storm water basins are site are designed to um handle the change in um curve number for Peak flow um based on the increase because of gravel cover um they also are designed for the total water quality volume to handle one inch of rainfall for the imper impervious area of the site um which we did consider gravel to be included in that impervious number um there are there is a um sediment forb associated with each um infiltration Basin that goes to a gravel Spillway and then into the infiltration Basin itself um that will be seated um with a um with a grass seed mix um and then all of the water is proposed to be infiltrated within the site it the the site is an existing Bowl there's no discharge off site to a butter um and that's just a little bit more background on the the storm water design associated with the project too but we'll open it up questions for you guys okay are there questions from the board seems pretty simple do you have more plans coming or is it complete this is complete you have uh any elev are you building structures for that they're going to park under I'm our current plan all we are requesting permission for is the can itself we have planned at some point to lease the under area okay we're going to see something later okay I thought I read that own special they would have to come and request their own permit for whatever use they're looking for got it Tom is it hi is the entire space going to be uh um is the array going to take up the entire pit or is there going to be some space left I thought I read that there was going to be some space the entire pit will be covered this is an elevated uh solar array so there is space beneath the system there are proposed I believe it's three concrete pads um for the specific solar equipment and battery storage battery energy storage systems another question yeah do you have is there a wildlife Corridor on that property so the existing the entire site is within the um I I forget the specific name of the district it's the wildlife um Corridor District overlay District um so the site itself there's no perimeter fence around the array just around those three isolated equipment pads so essentially the the whole site still acts as an open Corridor okay good thank you yep I just have a question PA what's the purpose of the parking what's the purpose of the parking besides the aray on top currently we have no purpose for it we just have to have a so it's not to park Vehicles underneath correct this time it's just a array period all it is is a solar AR I don't see an access to it if we decide to lease it to someone it be again their responsibility to come before you to request a use permit isn't it true that in that in that place you're not allowed to have parking anyway parking is not a possibility it is disallowed in that water Resource District anyway is that true in the water overlay Protection District I believe that's a a a prohibited use it is a prohibited use is it yes so there would never be parking there so I am wondering why you want the array up from where it's already approved to be my understand it's currently a sand pit it could be leased at some other points to other people for material storage what kind of storage would be allowed there for I do not know sand um sand right more sand that would not be up to me said we have not leased the space to anybody the current scope of our project is to build the Solar Ray that is it it's not up to us to decide what no but I think we would be concerned where are we to approve it at the height that you want it you've created a situation where an illegal use would be so easy under the current plans there there is no proposed use un under the um array itself it's just um elevated as the current design of that's what they want to propose for the solar um as Mike mentioned if there were to be an additional use on the project that would be separate to this minor modification application and would have to go in front of the board as as a separate application for that use in the future but there is no identified use at this time but we would be creating an opportunity for an illegal use Charlotte I I'd like to State it a little stronger it's come to bite us before when we've approved something that could potentially be used for something that's not legal and we hear but you approved it you obviously knew so how did you approve it and it comes back to B us so so the I don't know whether we can strongly enough prohibit that in a decision if we say that okay we approve this only but you can never use it for anything that is prohibited we can certainly condition your approval um with some language that makes it clear that any future use would need to follow all zoning bylaw requirements so the Water Resource Protection District has a variety of different uses that are allowed and prohibited and if anyone were to come forward with an application for a use within that District they would have to either comply with the requirements set forth within that section or be prohibited from its use so you can certainly uh make some findings and and put in some conditions into this approval for it J could you refresh our memory on what exactly was approved in 2019 what are they approved for now so in 2019 of course I left my notes upstairs um it was a very large solar array on two properties as the applicant was stating um prior do you mind just clicking the first tab on the on the very top that's the gis system and so that on the screen what you can see is the two arrays the first on the south east side of the electrical eement has been built um the other array which is uh the subject of this application has yet to be built uh but that was approved in that area as well I don't remember the exact uh kilowatt uh number um but essentially what he for the the array the the height of the U modules were approximately 3 feet off the ground at its highest point because they're angled and the request now is for what height off the ground there's no exact height currently but it would be my assumption would be 12 ft yeah we'd want to nail that down before um they do an approval that was going to be one of my question yeah that's what there's going to be some structure to that that you don't have in your plans yet right so these are incomplete you're going to be putting in some steel and building it up in the air with structure correct so we develop our construction drawings you know for building permit submission then yes this would have all this information in because we usually see an elevation what's getting built as part of our site plan and that's what I was questioning before I didn't see it I thought you were coming back with it later but you're not sure there you go yeah this is I zoom in here this is a a typical um illustrative um drawing of what of what the canopy would look like underneath um but as Mike mentioned um the structural design is not finalized at this point so there's no structural detail as to the the the size of the I beams um and the canopy foundations I think it was labeled carport wasn't it I thought I saw that yeah right it's a general term for deel a Solar Development that's elevated it doesn't specify um that there's going to be cars parked under it I'd also state that you know it's currently it's a sand pit if operations cease it's just an open area again like you stated people could illegally Park um we're again we our company we develop and own solar we do not have vehicles in which to store or equipment in which to store so at no point would we be using this and as you said it's already illegal to park cars in there it doesn't change it being we're not requesting that you allow it or anything we're just saying I just think I'm not accusing you of having bad intentions I don't think you do I think that it's creating a situation that invites ill use not from you um from anyone driving by going aha it just would be there and it's a potential use that will remain illegal so it seems questionable for us to have approved it why would you choose that height you saying 12 fet the current one that was approved is 3 ft right uh the current one is a ground mounted system so it's just a ra is I'm assuming like ballast Mount uh on the ground itself the idea was it is a large portion of property there was the idea that it could be leased out for some type of other use which again would be stipulated by you there's also an access there is access gates on both ends so have you I I've looked at a couple solar things and we looked at uh doing parking under it and uh the dust that was drawn up from running parking on Sand and everything really aggravated with in the planning that they really thought was a bad idea to have it under their solar have you considered you know that what kind of traffic you're going to have under there and its impact of dust on your uh on your solar panels again allowed to have parking or traffic under there TR something they're allowed they might be able to drive a truck through there okay or and traffic is what I'm talking about because it does kick up dust and on a site that I was involved then we decided not to do it for that reason oh that's all I bringing up because I had a little experience with it I wondered yeah I was wondering what you're obviously somebody's trying to be able to save the land to use it for another use because you're going to spend a lot of money putting steel in that you don't need to put in so somebody has a plan with an investment there and a return we just don't know what it is but the plan is just to be able to have the possibility of renting it to someone else down the line there's currently no plans again we don't have any car rental organization coming to us looking for a place to park it was just the idea the owner of the company said you know we have this large piece of property we're going to spend all this money to level it out um it has an access road to and from the idea was we could possibly use it at another time for some to release out the property with underneath while still making money um from the solar production is is there any way we could get a list of the uh uses that are allowed yes y we could provide that yeah could that be possible like a stipulation of your conditions uses these are the uses these are the only allowed uses well that's wa to see that yeah yeah so that we we have an idea of of what the possibilities are the possibilities are yeah would it also be possible it so it sounds like you would be entertaining a uh continuance to another meeting right um would it be possible to get um an idea of a proposed height for the array for the new canopy for that amount of time all right I think that might help um especially considering the the depth of the bowl uh if you will and whether or not those um arrays could be seen from anywhere really well that was my first thought as they were raising up because it is a depression right it's a pretty big drop what is it think it is 20 30 feet or 30 30 feet it's also surrounded by Woodland so it's again additional screen from any type I don't think it'll be visible unless you stand on the edge oh they're going to add 10 ft but it would gain you a little more solar being raised it's a lot of Steel somebody has an idea there I don't yeah there's some idea that we're not hearing about shall we um let's have a motion to okay so well this is a site plan review so we don't really have to have that motion to continue on site plan reviews it would really be up to the applicant um how much time they would need to answer your questions um but the next available meeting would be January 14th um so we we can get you information on the height of the array is that the only information that's being requested if we come back with that um what's the what are the next steps um for the project if we come back with the height of the array well it be the height of the array and given the the topography under the array I would think it would not be a uniform height overall so it would be if you were to do side uh elevations of it what would it look like is it going to step down into the bowl or how you I think it is I think it pitches very slowly to the outside edge of the elevation is all it decided yeah it comes high in the middle and pitches to the outside edge to drain it it's all all laid out they've gred it already it's all laid out yeah okay then it's just the height and we'll take care of finding out allowed uses okay and then would there be a potential vote at the next meeting with that information yes okay well no we don't usually vote the same meeting that we make a decision remember instru be will you vote to uh ask you to yeah whether to draft a positive or it'll be a decision okay okay thank you for that information thank you Char thank you Paul I'm standing taxes oh there might be a tax issue I've reached out to the landlord uh they are aware and they said they will be taken care of the issue immediately before the 14 I will I will check with them and confirm okay thank you thank you very much so moving on um here we have uh the applicant is JJC Development LLC uh site plan review application and construct uh 10 two-bedroom apartments in five uh twostory structures at four sandwich Road and I'm Mr IM Mr Keenan and Mr bunker for this project all public notice public notice for this project was published on 1122 24 and 39 AB buts were notified by regular mail okay Mr AMT hi um Miss Harris members of the board for your record I'm Bob AMT represent the applicant JJC development of Massachusetts limited liability company uh the CEO of uh JJC is here that's Eric es scander over here other consultants for the project are uh architect John Keenan and Tom Bunker uh surveyor Mr emman could I just ask I was looking up JJC just to see what I could learn about it and it's either in Ohio or Pennsylvania or Massachusetts would massach I'm in m hear the Massachusetts one yeah are they all connected to one another no I have no idea the other oh they look the same really [Music] yeah okay thank you so JJ EC um owns a dozens of uh Dunkin Donuts franchises in southeast Massachusetts and they own the real estate that some of those franchises are on they own this piece of real estate and at um for sandwich Road they also um I believe are the franchisees for all of the other Dunkin Donuts and fouth yeah so the site which is uh shown on the board this is an existing uh conditions plan um is presently um the Dunkin Donuts store it was um an Eastern Bank or Plymouth Savings Bank for many years before uh 2016 uh when it was converted from a bank to um the present use which uh is the Dunkin Donut store um so it already had a drive-thru before it became a fast food restaurant um and it's a 2 Acre Site it's actually 1.98 something um acres and the proposal before you is to create some uh housing on the site as business people uh JJC has um become very aware of the housing problems that their employees have and they have lost uh some key employees on Cape Cod uh because of the difficulty of their finding housing so they decided uh to look at the possibility of of housing on this site which as I said is 2 acres and as you'll see has room for what they proposed to do and is in the business 2 zoning District in in in fman uh so we submitted plans to the board that showed the proposed development of uh three buildings with a total of of five I'm sorry total of 11 uh Apartments this is not the plan that we want you to approve we have revise the plans and I'll show you what we propose this is the uh current rendering was uh Advanced to this stage only only today we very much appreciate the uh courtesy of the staff working with us uh allowing us to submit uh revised plans which we told them were coming um and so we're proposing five duplexes only 10 units not 11 um and there's some business reasons uh for that that change um and the result of this plan is it's about 2,000 square ft of less uh of building coverage and about 1,400 Square ft of less total coverage um on the site so it's is a it's a reduction but the uh septic system isn't going to change the uh drainage is already designed uh it can be scaled back and we'll get to that but the present proposal is for five duplexes um as shown these meet the required uh setbacks including a 25 ft setback um over here on the West side of the property because these properties are zoned agriculture whereas this property is another business uh zone property now I mentioned that this is B2 zoning so is the a lot immediately to the north and that's the end of the business um zoning fortunately or maybe not um I say unfortunately or maybe not the Mr Cod District ends right here at the property line and for some reason the uh neither the sewer extends past this common line it goes right to the to the property line and the Mr Cod District which must be on the sewer uh doesn't reach this uh property interestingly when the Duncan Donuts was approved in 2016 the decision of the planning board on site plan review specifically states that the uh property is in the um Zone to be hooked up to the Sewer in in the phased for future sewer um and I think that was correct but the the current plans and I don't know if we were wrong in 2016 or whether the plans have changed we're not in the future Sewer District that also ends right at the um property line and therefore um and this may be better uh we are proposing um a state-of-the-art Nitro um septic system not only to serve the new residences but we will be tying in the Dunkin Donuts uh store uh to that septic system we're also reducing the number of approved seats uh from 26 which was approved in 2016 and will be satisfied with only 18 seats in the restaurant and the result is is that there that with this project there will actually be a reduction in nitrogen concentration um from the pro property from the use of the property um and therefore there's compliance with the castal pond overlay District it's worth pointing out that and almost all of the properties between this property and Great Pond which is the coasta pond overlay District we are going to be sewered in the future um so it may be unnecessary but we're putting in a denitrification septic system as part of this proposal and the likelihood is that in the future that would be required anyway so that's what I want to tell you with the arel having just shy of 2 Acres the density of 10 units on the on the two acres is um under the six units per acre that's allowed by special permit in the business uh zoning District we will be getting a special permit or applying for a special permit we have applied for a permit from a special permit from the zoning board of appeals and our hearing is scheduled for uh January 16 for that um because we've made some changes to these plans the uh detailed uh grading and Wastewater and drainage uh plants uh might change a bit well the waste water won't change as I said still the D same d uh dite system but Tom Bunker uh will be working on some additional plans and we'll submit a a reprised package so that the engineering department can review everything again with the changes um their response that is the dpw's response to the uh drainage calculations was actually that they felt that we had misinterpreted regulations and provided more information in the 212 pages that was submitted uh for the uh for that report so we are going to be redoing that simp simplifying it um we are reducing the lot coverage with the change to the five duplexes so there'll be some changes to uh to the uh drainage uh layout and pl um for a fast food restaurant with 18 seats and uh 10 two-bedroom apartments the parking requirement is 38 spaces uh we probably don't need that many spaces um but that's we're showing 39 spaces uh on the plan so in compliance with that um if you visited this property you're aware that it's beautifully maintained as I think all of the franchises uh facilities it's very attractive um and it just feels when you're there that that it's the best drive-thru layout you've ever seen um it is two full Lanes uh that um go around the building to the drive-thru plenty of room for a car to uh escape the line and drive drive out the zoning bylaw requires seven uh 20 foot long stacking spaces queuing spaces behind the drive-thru those seven spaces is uh get you to about this point uh this um 54t Contour appears to be 170 ft away from the drive-thru so that would be 8 and 1 12 cars distance and that means that a car if if this is filled a car can escape by just going out this way um it really works very well and with parking for the residences in this area of the plan uh the uh cue for the drive-thru shouldn't have any impact on people being able to get into their um to to their [Applause] space these are the uh drawings that have been done by uh Keenan and Kenny um we're proposing now twostory buildings each with the two units and the layout is shown first floor of of the a unit in each building and the first floor of the B unit so we have all all of these uh drawings that are in your file the height of the buildings is uh 28 ft so it's well within it's a lot [Music] the traffic report that was submitted when the Dunkin Donuts was approved uh estimated that there'd be as many as 279 trips in the peak hour that is half in and half out of course the peak am hour during the week the actual figures are a little bit less than that but for plan purposes uh those that's the compare that to the number of trips expected from an apartment like this which is. 46 trips or about um one trip for every two units uh in the peak hour so the total number of of of trips is likely to be um 4.4 um of 4.6 trips or five trips in the peak hour from the residences so it's a tiny tiny fraction of the uh traffic that's already associated with the site which doesn't seem to have created any problems um I did have a discussion uh some weeks ago with the town planner who felt that that the um small increase related to the residences was would be inconsequential uh at least to the extent that it wouldn't be necessary to have to submit more traffic information to the plan hope you agree with that um I think I've probably given you enough information to stop there if you have questions for me I can try to answer them but uh John Keenan and Tom Bunker are also here uh to help you out let's see if the board does have questions John um excuse me um the back of the building's back are they bought up against residential area well is that correct no not exactly uh so call that it's the next proper is still business own right when to the north you said was also business this lot is business owned John this is a business to District in presumably who knows but right now there's a single family residence on that lot but it could be developed for business in the future so I'm sure that that person is going to have concerns about lighting on the back on the back of those units because currently it is a residence sure so I just think you should be able to address that at some point okay uh I think that the lighting um specifics is something that we could get to you for your next meeting okay and I and I think reading the engineering report there was some discussion about the sidewalk does the sidewalk end at the at the current driveway or is it going to extend afterward looks like it's going to be where your septic is presently the uh Drive the sidewalk extends all along sandwich Road up to this curb cut cor right and in fact at the just before the curb cut there there is a um a a ramp with the proper materials uh for um somebody was blind there is no further sidewalk anywhere on sandwich road to the north the sidewalk on the east side of the road extends all the way along sandwich Road um at least um not sure it goes all the way to Brick Road but it goes at least to the service center a mile or so up up the road um uh we don't think there's a good reason to install sidewalk uh for this uh 80 ft or so on the north side of the of the driveway um again because the sidewalk is on the other side of the street and it doesn't lead lead anywhere so if a resident of these units wants to get to the sidewalk there's already a path that's a safer path that goes past the the the Dunkin Donuts and goes down to the sidewalk over here um I have a it's you can see that in the uh aerial photo this this walkway anyway our request is not to be required to put in a sidewalk in this Northerly portion of the property there are the remains of two old curb cuts which were in that area they should be landscaped and filled in um the engineering department pointed out that there is curbing along sandwich road that extends to about where the arrow is ends about 40 or 50 ft from uh the driveway uh but the sidewalk is there we'd like to not do any more work in the roadway if I don't think the town has any intention of spending the money to put a sidewalk along the um west side of Sandwich Road where we already have it all the way on the east side of the road and improvements uh those improvements in the walkway which seem unnecessary for this project uh just add to the cost of creating housing which is really going to be uh Workforce housing in its nature these apartments are um square fet of each apartment as revised 700 square feet yeah and they're too bad I only bring it up because it's part of uh engineering's comments but um you might want to give some consideration to an area there for children in case they're going to catch a school bus there uh you may have some children living in those 10 Apartments so y you certainly might so you might want to give some consideration to a landing area of some kind good I don't have any other questions uh yeah uh so these are going to be rental so I'm assuming that the landlord is going to be responsible for landscaping and maintaining the landscape yes they are and that is has from the start of this project been the intention that they be rentals uh we actually met with the water department um superintendent yesterday to discuss that and the differences between Condominiums and rentals and who's responsible for who will be responsible for water bills for instance so uh I think that we have no intention of ever um um selling these as condominium units and uh what about Landscaping is it going to be uh I mean there's not a whole lot going to be uh grass or uh wood chips reminding me because we did submit today um a landscape plan that uh Tom Bunker's put together we have a landscape plan um and I I'll again go back and uh mention how attractive that Dunkin Donuts uh is and I think it will be maintained to the same quality um any plans uh for uh solar panels or uh using a solar system and heat pumps uh for for heating and cooling or we don't have any um haven't included those details in the plans okay um the only other comment I have is on the uh design of the the house I noticed on the front elevation uh one of the entries uh doesn't have any uh it's not covered by anything even an overhang with a gutter or anything like that and it's just exposed to the weather um I've I've always Tred to uh have at least one covered entry I know that's ation I build with we always have at least one covered entry something that uh I've already sketched out as a change because I agree with you yeah uh the main interest is the other side yeah show us other elev tell me where to stop that's idea here yeah that that yeah a little higher yeah that's the primary entrance that's facing the parking facing the sidewalk and uh I do agree we want to bring those roofs a little bit out on the left a little bit out on the left on the right to cover those TOS yeah just an overhang that's different protect the door even even if you ran it all the way across uh just to divide up that uh the idea was to make it look like one house that's yeah oh I know yeah not yeah yeah uh that's it from me jime yeah so this is I actually when I first saw this I said wait a minute is this a 40b but isn't this is a buy right uh well it's not by right special permit to the Z it's a special permit it's not 4 using the existing zoning though it is under the existing zoning I had mistaken that but the you still have to go to the zba for the special permit we do because that's how which is interesting if it was a Mr Cod project as you know doing it for the for a housing project alone we would not need to oh because my first thought was boy this is one of the best looking 40b jobs I've ever seen it was a really good-look building and I was impressed about how the design was on it but now I understand it is a market rate uh housing well it's whatever they want I think it's uh it has to be stated that creating any housing is difficulty difficult um and especially creating housing that's for rental and to be affordable um it it's a challenge and one of the reasons that uh we switched to duplexes was that uh the expense of um accessibility requirements for larger buildings made the project essentially unaffordable um given that this is a 4A project um there are no Town subsidies as others are receiving for their affordable projects um and I just point that out it is tough to create housing it's taken us a long time to get to this point um it's part of why I think um if we can avoid having to um sidewalks and do things like that it makes it um you know more feasible to to do projects like this I think that this kind of infill if you will on a business-owned property um getting uh 10 Apartments um you know this is something I think we want to see as much as is possible and if it was right next door we could have 20 units per acre by right instead of six by special per well I think it looks great yeah I like the idea of duplexes yeah I've got a question because you've got crawl space down here but I don't see any access to the crawl space nor do I see where on the plans you have uh heating capacity where you're tucking that in I I don't understand that the floor PL will show or do show a uh hatch a floor hatch in each unit access the basement a floor hatch show that sure let me pull those up for you you can find it only because it only goes down 3 feet right yeah sorry the basement the it's the the space between the basement floor and the first floor is what four feet 5 feet not even not even so it's just a little hatchway you can drop stuff down three steps and push it around put it on rollers and slide I didn't know what kind of call [Applause] space yeah just that right here oh okay I see it under about pling okay thank you because I didn't know where couldn't see that at all [Music] it [Applause] works that's what I was it looked like was all the the blow in foam insulation and there wouldn't be very much space Down's a two wall between the yeah wall Bas SL the building is will be fully fire protection that's we can put them as close together as they are needs all the Fire PS do you have any this is another question do you have any storage for the residents or I'm not asking that you should I'm just asking the question do you have there's a lot of generous closet space School room okay basement you put basements and they' be full yeah yeah thank you Paul yeah I was confused when I first started looking at this because there's a lot of changes apparently occurring for example even on this notice for today it says 11 two bedroom apartments three one-story structures that's all changed oh yeah it's a significant change filed on November 19th and these drawings are dated September 9th so I was confused as to how many units and what is going on here because it doesn't seem to match the drawings I hope that we've been um trans parent and uh made it clear what we're proposing we're not proposing this plan three buildings we are proposing five duplexes um and that's what we want you to prove we will be submitting these revised plans to the board of appeals well ahead of their January 16 um meeting and our hope is that the planning board will be able to issue a site plan uh review approval before January 16 um but this is what the proposal is it is less lot coverage it is um less number of Apartments so we've just reduced everything um we've increased the height because now these are small two-story buildings instead of one-story buildings uh but from a planning point of view in terms of coverage traffic and the so on this is not an increase from what we submitted a month ago but it you're of course it is very much a change so the different dates there should be different dates on these drawings then there's a revision there are revision dates on the on the on the drawings Tom I'm sorry are you done yeah one quick question none of these apartments are handicapped accessible appear that correct cor can you say that again please there are no handicapped accessible apartments that is correct is that correct correct thank you hi um I appreciate the reduction from 11 to 10 uh nicely designed like Mr Fox pointed out you said it's 10 dedicated spots parking spots and the overflow will be um part of the parking at Dunkin Donuts well there are 20 spaces being provided because of the residences there happen to be 10 spaces right in front of the buildings but right across from that just as close to some of the units is uh are eight more spaces okay and snow removal will that be by the landlord and is that figured out the town the town will not provide uh snow removal or trash removal uh for this project okay so not only will the land roader be responsible for snow removal which of course they take care of because of the uh restaurant uh but you can see that there is a uh second dumpster proposed we uh toyed a little bit with the idea of of would we be able to service the residences using the same dumpster that's behind the Dunkin dolance and the conclusion was there should be uh separate facilities great and last question mail delivery just small issue raised that that's number four and have you figured out how you were going to number the buildings so there's no confusion with the mail delivery 1 a 1B 2 a 2B the plans that the plan before you uses the same designation as requested by the engineering department so we made the changes which they requested so um The Duncan Donuts building is called out on this plan existing unit one and this is building two three four five and six great thank you okay I guess it's my turn first of all I want to thank you um we're certainly hoping that more owners in town are going to take responsibility for Workforce housing um the town has to really hope for that so thank you very much and on the design it certainly is the New England vernacular that looks really great I agree with JY with Tom and probably with the rest of the board that it's looking good and I'm glad you're going to put uh little porches over those those entry WIS that would that would have to happen I'm also glad that you allowed them to go forward even though they change from 11 to 10 from 3 to 5 that we could do this tonight and try to make your time frame looking at the at the plans I too was this is the first time I've actually looked at something labeled in this way and I don't really understand it if it says crawl space I notice there no storage no garage no Sellar where do you put your stuff does this mean that this is a slab on grade thing when you go down when you open that hatch are you looking at dirt or you looking at what's down there slab could be a slab on gra but the uh reality is aw it's hard has to be up there quiet hard heat they can run duct under the above but there really isn't much under there uh it's probably more efficient to do a call space you still have to pour the walls fourt 5T deep then you have to fill theall a slab so it's it's kind of easier to to construct it this way um well I'm not understanding what this way is madam chair if if I may at the risk of repeating yourself to the microphone for the folks at home yeah anyone who's watching after Mr Keenan sorry the question again um just describe how you okay so you're digging a 5T deep trench and putting in a foundation the footing has to be at least four feet below grade for Frost is it a footing all the way around or yes yeah yes and then uh I think the crwl space has a limit of not more than 30 in deep access by anyone who goes there uh but there won't be anything in the the crawl space it's just a nicer it's a nicer building conrete floor in the crawl space right sorry qu space has a concrete floor does the concern that it's dirt no yeah it's not just dirt it has a slab yeah oh so it is a slab housekeeping and they insulated the foundation walls are all insulated thank you yeah I know I've been given a picture I got the picture now okay next question if if the utilities are actually in the Attic what's the access to that access to the to if you need to fix whatever you're putting in there for heating for in the attic and there's hatches in the floor requires access panels it's all but where are they it's all by code there are uh no they're usually in the hallway or in one of the rooms you said they were going to be in the Attic no the the hatch the hatch the access panel ah is it one of those drop down that okay not a drop down stair it's only a an access for a maintenance band put a ladder up someone to work on equipment it's not to get store things up here yeah okay no thank you I just couldn't understand it from what I was looking at thank you I haven't seen that kind of thing here before it's kind of like flood plane construction familiar with a lot of houses built in a flood plane have the have the low area just like that and and I've seen people do use it as storage they put little rollers on the stuff and they slide them up and down the first house I owned was built in 1847 and it was built by digging a trench around the foundation and not digging out the inside so it's not that I haven't seen it I haven't seen drawings that of what that would be and what what it would actually mean but any those were my questions then I too had questions about uh the sidewalk and the access because people undoubtedly are going to walk from there to McDonald's often another point we haven't done any we haven't done any uh test holes per se so we don't know where the ground waterer is and we'd like the crawl space takes care of that the ground waterer can't be right close to it rather than a slab on top of fill that's close to the water table okay well those those were my questions and I I appreciate your project so if we have no further questions questions public comment public comment are people here who want to comment on the project or ask questions of their own just may thank you please come forward John hi Lori Lopes thank you I am in lot 6A and I'm a little lost now because the plan that I saw was nothing like this so I guess a few of my questions would be what do you plan on doing for the abiders on trting Park Road um what is like along here I'm basically that's my goat pen right here and I believe what's the space between that area what's going to be along there is there going to be fencing trees what do you propose to do along that side just so you know people are not cutting through your I'm sorry um so that people are not cutting through you know my properties um they did we brought that concern up when they did the Dunkin Don it so they got a fence and they got some trees um and also um the wildlife Corridor that's here that honestly runs that whole length of all along trotting Park Road as far as we can see I've been living on 6a for most of my 61 years and um I'm just a little concerned about that um yeah I just don't uh what What's going to be along there Mr well the fencing that exists now which is in good condition um was installed as a requirement of the approval of the dunin donuts because of concerns by the neighbors um that they're be control of uh trash and also people um who might as just had cut through people's uh properties so the fencing will be relocated as necessary and uh maintained and the Landscaping um plan I'll pull that up again um the Landscaping that isn't within the limit of work will stay we could add more Landscaping if that seems necessary one of the interesting things about it is there will be a retaining wall on here so so these buildings are actually are a bit lower than the topography uh to the to the West um but um I my assumption has been that U Duncan Donuts has been a very good neighbor done what they said they were going to do and uh they're going to be the people uh running the show in the future too hopefully so what type of F I mean how how far will the fence go and what type of f well I assume it'll be the same fencing maybe they'll even reuse it a black metal chain link fence now is that what's there no it's a it's it's a stainless uh I mean not stainless but it's a um It's Not Dark um we're going to try to avoid having Miss please don't have conversations there you have to use the microphone yeah so how how far will that fence go it can go along the entire uh property as long as is needed I think it Tom do you show that on the plant and isn't this the fencing yeah that I can say that fence I have on there is a I put that on as a temporary work fence M for usually security during during work um but I you so okay it shows on the retaining wall so if the the ground level at that you uh building six is being excavated down to about elevation 57 and the top behind M L's house is the ground is up at 64 so it's a 7 foot reduction we have a uh basically a 4 foot high retaining wall and then some slope above that and uh and I do show a fence I show a fence at the top of the retaining wall but the fence could be moved back closer to property line either way and as Bob said it could run further along there but I think com certainly the combination of that retaining wall and fence nobody will be going up and down there to your land uh I'm two six or seven first well six two and 2 a and six if you're both six yeah but up at the corner uh the topography goes down uh but there could a fence could remain along there also as Bob said and how about lightings flashing in the into from the back of the buildings towards towards this property what will the lighting be like there that would be in the architecture uh we have you please could you please each of you use the microphone yes we do have you know parking lot lights in front of the buildings but we have no sight lighting behind the buildings the lights the lights would be building mounted at each door shielded low level without shining out they do show on our plans where there's wall mounted lights that would be it the other thing we did mention is that uh the setbacks along the the north side is 10 ft the setback off sandwich road is 35 and we have a 25t setback behind the residential Zone I think Mr AMT mentioned that in his presentation yeah and actually uh this building building five over here is 62 ft away from the property line this building a corner is 27 ft from the property line Jim can we can you possibly specify dark sky lighting around the whole site so you're not lighting up everything's lighting down and keeping everything on on on the property because that's usually what we do yeah and that solves this issue that's being brought lights along the parking area for safety right everything else is just down only no flood lights going out no the other thing is do you have a site plan of the existing so there are a lot of trees on the site we haven't had time to figure out exactly which ones we could keep which ones we could save good luck well they're they're sort of indicated all those xas are existing trees some of the are 18inch 20inch Oaks uh you'll see along the drive in there's a very nice four matching trees uh on the north side of the entrance so if we we haven't had time to superimpose the buildings with the trees on there see what we can see excavation equipment it's really hard to save any of those trees you're going to be driving tractors over their Roots we've tried to do fors well we'll try especially if you look along that uh with is a limit of work yeah uh that's we we'll do our best you know try to same thank you is in there anyone else um who wishes to comment or question good evening I'm Mary Bishop I live on trotting Park Road and um uh my son Michael has the house right next to lri which I own and I'm next to lri and next to me is my daughter Nancy we have a kind of a relative compound there and uh it's been that way for for years and if any of you trotting Park Road looks very congested but if you went to the back of our houses it was all farmland and we've kind of kept it that way and we all have Gardens my daughter Nancy has a mini Farm there and we have deer and we have of course coyotes that pass through there there is a wildlife Corridor and we have a swamp right across the road but the uh I'm concerned with that but ALS but I'm concerned with the traffic the traffic they say uh there was like 270 that went in the peak hours well I've been to Dunkin Donuts and those cars try to get in there and they're still on the road at the pink out pink hours in the morning you know 8 9 even before that I don't know how those uh rental you know the people living there are going to uh compete with that traffic that comes in there and then that traffic comes up trout um sandwich Road a lot of those people don't stop at the stop sign so we on trotting Park Road there used to be one or two or three cars now we're backed up because that's a cut through so we have Route 28 then we have sandwich Road and I'd like to know how many accidents and uh that have really been down there and we have had them too and I'd like to see if there was a traffic uh study committee because with 300 units probably going in on sanwich road you're going to have about 600 more cars coming down our way so um I I'd just like for you to keep that in mind and when you talk about yes we need rental property but I I've had people that said that they can't even afford the rental property that these landlords are charging they they make 15 to 20 maybe $25 an hour they're all their their paycheck goes to this affordable housing so forth so you know I look at it a little closer and see if that's really you know worth it in that little space there because you know we're getting squeezed out down there in t tiet i mean we are Bumper to Bumper no matter what time of the day to get on on uh I I go from tronic Park Road four stops to get to the lights on Jones Road that's how bad it's gotten so thank you for your time you're welcome you must you must be the among the ones running the little uh vegetable stand there that that is a neighbors that's not ours we don't have a vegetable stand but but there is a neighbor that has a uh several Acres on that corner at the end of trotting Park and then there's another development going up on trotting Park you know halfway down so you can see it's getting very crowded down there and it's it's just not a good thing right it is getting crowded you're right about that is there anyone else who'd like to speak my name is Danny figorito and I live at Lot 8 obviously all this has changed first time seeing this obviously as you guys um so kind of things have changed a little bit but the main idea hasn't my biggest issue was one traffic there's days and days I stay there waiting to pull in and out my driveway cuz I can't go cuz people are waiting to go into Dunkin dogs consistently it's ridiculous the other issue would be safety um originally I believe that there were seven eight Lots or drive parking spaces proposed for the units over on the other side of the drive-thru so my concern was was safety as people walking through the drive-thru to get to their units and then obviously if kids are involved with people that are renting these places that's another issue if the consistent traffic of people going in and out of D Dunkin Donuts they don't they don't slow down they drive right through and um they maniax in there it's ridiculous um the that's the biggest issue I mean right now it's all trees and woods and areas so that's all going to be cut down so now you're opening up that whole area for all I see is people in their backyards fine I have neighbors on the other side that doesn't bother me it's then what are we going to do here I mean there's existing fence on the prop on Duncan property chain like about a third of the way down they are we going to do anything going all the way down to the lot line that buts try Park those are my biggest issues thank you thank you does anyone else like to speak and bring forward a concern mran well I'll just point out a couple of things the lot coverage that's proposed is 12.51% by structures 12.51% what the zoning bylaw allows is 40% the total lot coverage is of 46.7% the zoning bylaw allows 70% none of the property is within the wildlife Corridor District which is shown on the plan along here but it doesn't extend now that doesn't mean that the deer know where that line is and of course we're going to lose some trees um and it has an impact on wildlife in on neighbors uh but we need we need this kind of Housing and it's the uh right zone for it it's actually a very good location for it it's uh near potential or existing public transportation easy to get to jobs and so on it's possible if not likely that that um some or a couple of the residents may actually work on this site um so this is a good project and I think we can try to address lighting issues we can take a look at the Landscaping issues to try to minimize adverse impacts and to create more buffer um so I will come back uh with some um consideration of of these issues thank you that would be good but I'd just like to reiterate that it is a good and welcome project it's true downtown is getting more crowded there's almost uh no help for that but this project is well within the existing zoning you know it just it is and it's uh lower lot coverage than might have been expected so you know you have to count your blessings where they exist John when they come back I'd like them to address uh Danny's concern there longer property you're going to put a fence there you're going to put screening there that's why I was asking originally about lighting and you you've addressed the lighting is going to be dark sky but well it'd be great if I could suggest that uh those of you who have talked about these issues if you want to contact uh me or just send a note something about your ideas of what you think uh you'd like along that line in terms of of fencing other things then that just will help us to uh to figure out what what works best well when the revised drawings and complete drawings will be available in the planning department by about when as soon as we get full size drawings we'll have them available right now we only have 11 by 17s yeah we will we will uh again online on much easier to see them in real life in your office and there you can ask questions and that would probably be by the first of the year I would think sooner than that yeah yeah yeah I just I again want to express a considerable appreciation for the staff for the understanding our our desire to make a better plan that we can actually go forward with um uh so we'll try to get in that complete set of uh drawings with some improvements as soon as we can excellent thank you so I continue then to the 14th uh if that works for the applicant uh what date are we talking about again 14th is our next meeting January January 14th the 14th of January right yeah sure of course we'll get in the plans well before then the hope would be that uh if we get the plans in ahead of time we've address some of these issues I don't think we need need to go over them a lot with you my hope is that the staff could have a a motion um that you can vote on and uh so that the board of appeals would have it when they meet we always prepare those ahead of time so we'll have something ready for you if you're comfortable um if if I may now what's the sense of the board there we're comfortable with yes yeah I just wanted just we're talking about pretty minor changes we're talking about some fencing yeah and some lighting that's all that it be added and and Landscaping and Landscaping yeah right and actually just a little more time to absorb the drawings but this it's all will be done by then yeah so if I may just a couple of things so for any of of the folks in the audience who got a public hearing notice there was a link on on that uh document you can use that link to access the new set of plans um online so those are already uh posted um additionally uh I do think it's worth noting uh the building Comm the building Department's referral indicated a potential issue and it's come up um here in conversation with the ability of the residential units their parking location with respect to where the vehicles are coming in for the drive-thru so there there may be um and if the applicant can provide that some sort of demonstration of what that typical morning queue looks like um so that perhaps there could be some pavement markings put in to demonstrate for the vehicles coming into the Dunkin Donuts line that you know you need to move over to the left to allow for people to come in and out of their uh parking spot she wanted them to use the middle aisle for access to yeah they could do some signage or something some some sort of what that typical morning looks like because as you know people are trying to go to work they need to be able to get out of their houses and if Dunkin Donuts is as crazy as we all know it is um we have to be able to live together so if there could be some sort of demonstration some striping on the road or something to indicate it is there any possibility of a wider curb cut so there's more room likely not I think engineering actually your zoning bylaw uh dictates uh no more than 24 ft right uh withd but internal circulation could be looked at so for example I think the very northern part of that area might be a two-way circulation maybe you want to consider a oneway just ideas that are being thrown out to help with that's not going to work the idea of people sharing spaces right because the whole idea here if I'm understanding this correctly is that the residential units need to share the spaces with the Dunkin Donuts lot and so therefore you're going to have people walking all over the place out the Building Commissioner recommended that people come into the parking lot take a left into the Dunkin Donuts portion to access the drive-thru rather than going past the residential units and how would you indicate that with the way you put the white lines on the you'd have to do signage like put a sign driveth through and put a drive through Arrow to go through that section that would probably be a good luck thing right yeah no understood but that was just for his referral yeah I just want to remind people that we we had doing site plan which includes that yes right it includes Landscaping lighting and the design aspects of the buildings so because this is still going to the zba after this so there will be other hearings on this property uh so keep your antenna up for that Paul did you want to say something yeah I'd like to see some detail on the Wastewater system that's being used going into the existing system or something uh at the meeting next time M I don't see anything on the drawings here any other comments before we move on Mr I just want to say that um you know we have located the parking for the residents with 10 spaces in front of those um units with the sidewalk right there the residents aren't going to have to cross a driveway to get to their car um if the traffic backs up uh for the Dunkin Donuts queuing uh that surely is a conflict but I think it's one that um people will work out remember the number of trips per peak hour is about five one every 12 minutes on average by the residents uh leaving um there so half the residents leave uh in one hour and half in another or on the average um and and just like the traffic on um 28 in Te ticket uh it works be to the extent it works because people stop and they let people in I think that somebody every 12 minutes trying to get out of a parking space and just simply back between cars to go out the um cuz that's two-way in that location that is going to be the way it needs to work you are aware of the issue we understand the issue but uh if we're going to create housing um next to um businesses and we are proposing that in a lot of places in in town or hopefully more um these kind of conflicts are going to exist and I think that they uh um they can can be worked through but I don't think the solution in this particular case is going to have the traffic to get to the uh drive-thru come in take a left take a right take another left in completely changing the traffic pattern and right now we have a one-way traffic flow that goes through we can do better than that go through the drive-thru and exit this way and to make this a a typical two-way right in here way and expect the traffic to come like this and go I don't think that's the solution I just don't and yet you can see where people who are par who are renting there they're parking head in toward their units they're going to back into uh the area that's the shared area I think people will see what's going on on and and let let people uh get out I think that will happen or maybe people will learn that they do better if they back into their parking space when they come home at the end of the day at a time when there's no queue there's a similar situation in front of Cappies if you picture that where there um two head- in parking things and people you know the potential for rear ending one another uh is enormous there and it is in several places in town when you stop stop and think about it and yet you don't hear about rear end accidents there so people do learn to maneuver it but you can still see it's an issue it looks to me as if on that plan there's been an effort to save the green space between the two parking areas that exist now it happens that when um the town put together a group to study widening or doing something or other about uh Route 28 going up to um uh oxtail so we're going to we all had to walk along that road and consider where to have the new size sidewalks and so forth and Dunkin Donuts was used as the staging area so we all uh went to that Dunkin Donuts and had a good chance to see exactly what that building is like and what the landscape is like and it is a nice landscape it is nice trees nice space but if you had to you could reduce the size of that uh intermediate lot the one in the middle y if you really needed to we considered the possibility of having uh parking spaces in this area it's wide enough this is a particularly uh deep area between uh Behind These spaces you could have a row of parking along here and we don't need it um and it would change adversely the very attractive uh Pleasant area in front of that building yeah it is it is to be a shame to lose it uh obviously the we have a common owner and it will be common owner of the business and the residences they obviously will have an interest in um satisfying both their customers and their tenants and I think this is a good plan the way it is and they'll work it out and it will work I'm not sure how long the um period of the morning is and this is an example never ask a question you don't know the answer to I don't know how uh long the queue in the morning uh last whether it's a you know about an hour long or it's longer that that we that it's uh we have a a potential problem uh but I think people will learn to deal with it and figured out I think between now and when you come back on the 14th of January many of us will have noticed more about that queue because I suppose we all drive by there at times so thank you and we'll see you on the 14 I just have a quick question do you think this is the longest queue you have on any of the Dunkin Donuts in town I mean this he owns all of them right well Mr es scander can probably answer that I was thinking about the queue I didn't take a good look at it that goes uh to the one on Main Street ac across from the church and thinking about the fact that that queue goes uh if I have this correct uh past the um a drugstore and Residences are in the back and my guess is it's much more convoluted than than what we're proposing here I just think this is um this is as good as it gets think so maybe it could be better but just one last thing I'm sorry um no don't speak to you get to the microphone thank you thank you um these TW have you done traffic studies and when when are they done like are they done in January and February because we all know that traffic quadruples in the summertime especially in t ticket like a Mary said it takes you four stops to get to the light from trotting Park Road to the stopp and Shop light you can stop four times and wait and that's constant constant con Conant in the summer I've lived there forever and it and it's terrible and it's not easy to get out and people do not let you out you literally have to cut out and I'm going to get the police report how many people do not stop at that stop sign because there's many they sit at Midas and they stop five six seven seven cars that do not stop at the stop sign at stanwich road so there's there there'll be a huge amount that we'll see on that report so but thank you I have to comment the Dunkin Donuts was approved in 2016 and it's there the traffic is there we're talking about creating some much needed apartment housing um that is going to create a handful of trips per hour it is not going to uh measurably change the uh situation the problems that uh people are already experiences experiencing and this is a business Zone actually happens to be immediately adjacent to the by right 20 units um um Mr Cod District um and a traffic study studying Dunkin Donuts it's uh 9 years too late except we did have a traffic study and the planning board did have it and the board appeals did have the traffic study and the project was approved I think we understand that it's the addition of the parking associated with the housing not with Dunkin Donuts and I think we're ready to move on thank you coming before we move on one quick comment all right when I was on the transportation committee there was the discussion about improvements that intersection and there was funding coming from the state and there was consideration putting a rotary in or doing a light or doing something improvements there so the DPW is well aware of the issues on that intersection and I don't know the status today but uh might be something we might want to follow up on but there has been discussion on getting funding to do that I'm sure there will be now we're moving on so thank you thank you thank you good project okay we have an interesting new uh topic for our discussion I think we'll uh we're moving on now to the discussion items um excuse me you and Bob sound great yeah you want to take that outside allergies are ready I am I developed allergies I've never had it before I got them now Jim okay we've got a new item that's not described here but it's well within what we do for discussion Paul we're having a special anniversary tell us about it well you're skipping over the appointment what appointment under the first item under discussion no I was just going to put your thing first okay that's fine uh I done some research on the history of the planning board I caught some idea that it was 100th anniversary I did some research on it and I looked at the annual reports from 23 24 25 6 and 7 and I put together these notes able events here for us to consider and basically the uh article 17 special town meeting in 1923 they agreed to appoint a committee and then the following year they named 12 people to be on that committee and then there was a series of events occurring and how active the that committee was including uh preserving the characteristic of the town and was the zoning bylaw in the first town on Cape Cod to have a zoning bylaw so then they recommend a business district so there's a lot of things going on in the first couple years and uh I'm suggesting that the planning board vote to acknowledge a 100th anniversary of the board in 2024 and prepare a letter to the select board for that purpose and usually they ask for Proclamation and we can prepare a proclamation in fact it's based on this information here so I'd like to have a discussion other members to see if you want to pursue this any further okay so the planning board itself is having a birthday it's our 100th birthday party and it's interesting the status that we have as uh here in the state and on Cape Cod we were the fourth we don't know who the first three were the fourth town to create a planning board under the new law the state had created in 23 in the state we were the fourth but on the cap we were the first so our 100th birthday this it's an important time and how many of you would like to go forward with the idea that we make something of it Paul is prepared to help us any comments we having a party I'm all in favor you like that okay yes this I'd love to I think the planning board is a very important board in this town and I think it is something that should be recognized for we've been around for this long I think it'd be great right so thank you Paul very much for finding this out about us want to take a vote to move forward um do we have to I'd like to take a vote when we have it to adopt the proclamation yeah do we all have a copy of it uh no it's basically what's in this thing here but I get your Proclamation I drafted and obviously the the select board will prepare their own Proclamation I've done one or two of them in the past and they've kept what I wrote for btim so I don't think they'll change this any very much I think they're not going to so what I'd like to do is have the board have time to absorb all that and read the proclamation before we actually have to vote on it and do that at our meeting on the 14th if that's okay in January yeah still I can read it now if you want it no wait till we vote on it yeah let's Okay read it as as we're going to vote on it and maybe we could move it up on the agenda so it's not on an empty house so it's 101st anniversary it would be wouldn't it 2025 yeah you're right up against the deine I think Pat's been on it for a quarter of that thank you Paul very much okay now our next order of business is um we need a uh representative on the community preservation um commission committee and uh Tom has volunteered to do that if you're interested in having uh do it so uh I thought we voted that already no we did not were affordable housing committee so I would like to nominate him to be our representative on the community preservation committee and have a second for that second second we have a second all in favor I I you're it thank you it's more meetings thank you very much forward to it yeah great planning department report I'll try to keep it brief um we've got a number of things that we're trying to finalize one of which is the open space and wck plan we've talked about it before with this group um so we're going through the final steps now and we hope to be able to submit to the state by the end of the month very important document so we're excited to be able to get that done and submitt it to the state we're also working with the cape cut Commission on our wayfinding plan so as you know we just finished up our parking management plan part two of that effort was um signage connecting people from the bike path to downtown in downtown from the parking areas to the shops Etc tap cut commission's produced like a draft report for us to consider um and we'll be looking to do some public meetings l in the early spring when people start returning back to to town um importantly um Paul has um been very excited about this this moment but we town meeting approved the last bit of funding for the shick Pond viewing and fishing platform so we are working closely with engineering to get that design plan out to bid and hopefully begin construction potentially by the spring so we about that by the spring Spring by when by the spring well the target is the the ARB day and that's April right right how many years has it been Paul long time long time long long time so that's very excited about that not as long as the domination but almost yeah well you know the mill Dom station was 10 years this is probably eight and the last item that we're excited to um share with you is uh the fact that we are applying for Grant funds from the cape C commission again to produce design guidelines specifically for the Mixed residential and Commercial overlay District um I reached out to several firms who prepare these design guidelines it it can be a costly effort so we've trimmed it down to just the district because we know you know obviously town meeting approved all the amendments to Mr Cod and so we want to be prepared for um future applicants and that effort putting together these uh guidelines will really help with that you know shaping exactly what you want to see within that District so we're hopeful to get that grant funding if we don't receive it from the cape cut commission we're going to go through the state uh later on in well it would be early 2025 what I ask in connection with that um Pat and I sometime ago some years ago uh worked on a design guideline based on the Cape Cod commission's work already based on that so it wasn't starting denovo on guidelines for the whole town not just just for one area of it and when will that be printed because it wouldn't have changed between then and now well part of that effort is to take that document that you were working on and sort of our plan B if you will or B or C is to hire the capcon commission to essentially create a new set of guidelines based on what you the work that you had done um for us for fouth but perhaps just the district if not the entire town so we're working multiple angles but part of the design guideline effort is public involvement so you would definitely want to have a couple of public meetings so that people not only within the district but also within town can come and tell you you know their desires about architecture and uh front steps and all sorts of elements that go into design so we couldn't necessarily um we will definitely use the effort that you had started but we'll build upon that with that um outside help either the cap commission or private consultant mam chair is Union Studios one of the firms they are yes good yeah yeah very exciting okay so that that's all very good news we spent a lot of time with them already yeah well we thought I like their stuff they do a great job yeah okay and then I wanted to speak for a minute about the um uh issue of the short-term rental you know the uh MOA had prepared we had our panels we had a hearing we met four times town meeting turned it down and they might have done us a favor because the state supreme court so that the Massachusetts Supreme Court has already found at least in one instance that very closely parallels our own setup here what we have for zoning that short-term rentals that are not owner occupied are commercial use and therefore illegal in a residential Zone so that's been a finding already by that's been a finding already rent land Court depends on how they're set up if it's a motel or a hotel a summer home if you have a house and you're due rent it weekly if you live there fine go right ahead shortterm rentals without owner Rock has to be and I'm going to tell you the name of the case and you can oh no I'm agreeing with I understand I heard but I just think this is a really big change our town has we has lived on summer rentals forever that's uh my stepson just bought a house just to do that and so now that's illegal according to the state supreme court what's the uh you have that case what's the case it's called Linfield Enfield Linfield Lyn oh Linfield Linfield and I can send you a link the link that worked for me okay or I'll send it to Jed and M and they can send it around sure yeah okay just so you can read it and see but going along with that because this of course there been much discussed with Jed and with Mar and so forth um all of this about uh an upro over short-term rentals is relatively new so there'll be more cases bought there'll be deeper case law later we're sort of at the beginning of this because the situation Falmouth as a a resort Community is not unique there are other towns in the same situation so this isn't the end of it but it is where it is right now that's where it is right now so it could be with town meeting turning us down in effect if what we had proposed went forward we would have been making it legal to have short-term rentals all over town we would have been changing that and we might not want to do that if we don't know what we're doing it's the not knowing what we're doing is the the tricky element can do you define for me short-term rental specifically the state has defined it for you what what is it and the state says it's 30 days or less they already did that so no weekly rentals W weekly can be up to 30 days it doesn't Outlaw weekly it says shortterm rentals are rentals of less than are 30 days or less less a week fits within that are we saying those are illegal now no they're legal I'm confused it's a complicated topic and I think what what the chair is trying to say is that you know town meeting put it in definite postponement we come back to the drawing board with the working group and we start talking about why and we start talking about options moving forward um but we won't be doing that until January with the respect of the holidays but I think what you're trying to get at is that we we need to do some more work and how meting it's unfinished work but we need to work on it in light of all that we know about the law Y and not just reading once or twice really knowing it and being answered able to answer your questions and the rest of the questions well it's a pretty big impact to yeah summer neighborhoods I mean I I grew up every house everybody rented their house out for you know four or five weeks the cut off used to be I did a two and the cuto off was my insurance company said you can't do more than 10 and that's where where they would they would stop me from doing more than 10 but now you can't even do one week yeah you can Jim how many weeks fit into 30 days so you were saying 30 days is a short-term rental yeah up I thought you were saying they're illegal so that would be at least four weeks there's more work to be done I I wouldn't go too far down the rabbit it's not on the agenda seven days a week seven not on the agenda okay so uh reports are there any committee reports Paul uh not today not today any others no or the Cape Cod Commission I have a um public meeting tomorrow I believe is it 5 o' CH it's a public it's the library I think it is yes regarding the internet they want to get people's input on their feelings of what's available and what could be available for what what for the internet what's available and or what could be available Broadband right right at the library 5 o'clock tomorrow any announcements fut wait a minute I think that because this is our last meeting before the holidays we should wish each other and our viewing audience happy holidays merry Christmas happy H happy holiday thank you ANUK starts on Christmas Day this yeah that's interesting this is late yeah yeah it is so there isn't any general correspondence no I make a motion we adjourn uh the next meeting is going to be January 14th and we have a motion to Jour do we have a second second all in favor [Music]