thanks everybody for being here and uh I appreciate the chance to hear from all of you as to uh you know what is why number one we should be renovating Lawrence school uh and and two what are
the the needs of the of the Lawrence school and in the renovation um and uh so just to introduce uh everybody James Rice Stall here from Next Level um who's
done a lot of work with us in the district uh was the OPM on our Ticket Roof building uh Ticket roof project and uh was also going to be the OPM for the uh
north roof project uh as well uh Steve Habib uh and Tom Mloud uh who come from Habib Associates who are are architects and they've been hired to do a building assessment on the
Lawrence School to help us with the MSBA application and then from Lawrence we have Tom Bushy who's the principal of Lawrence and Don Drew is the lead custodian um for the district as well as for uh
the building um and uh so we really appreciate everybody's time here and um the reason why we're doing this filming is really to give the public an understanding of uh of the Lawrence
building it's its history as a school in Falmouth um as well as you know the underlying challenges of a building uh that was built in 1950 um so there's a lot of work to be done here but uh first
Tom if I can ask you if you could just provide us some some background some history to the building and um and and what you find from this building uh and its context and you know its major role
in the Falmouth school system so if I could turn it over to you for a few minutes so the Lawrence School was built in the early 50s opened up in 1953 as the high school for Falmouth and it
remained the high school until uh 1973 when Falmouth High School was uh opened up in its current location and at that time Lawrence transitioned to a junior high school and it's been the junior high school since it's had uh it's had a
rich history of being uh one of the staples of FA public schools for years there's a deep community connection and we're hoping to make sure that it remains that way right thanks Tom so the building you know it has a rich history
it's probably one of the prettiest buildings uh on the on the Falmouth public school campus um in my view it's sort of the most collegate building um of the campus um and and you know but
being built in 1950s um it has a lot of challenges to it and Don maybe if you could just set a picture for us uh before we ask Steve and Tom to uh jump in uh if you could you know what are the challenges you see
as lead custodian of a building such as this we're learning to do electrical issues plumbing issues sewer issues steam issues pretty much every day now there's always something
that's and it gets more challenging to try and repair to get the parts to repair and to access what we need to access where the locations of the pipes are behind walls wires in concrete walls in floors
um so those are the challenges the everyday challenges um so all of all of this is essentially the old equipment the equipment that was the original equipment to the building is that correct correct i've had
contractors come in here that now contractors are younger than than the building and are not that they they've seen some of this equipment can't get parts for some of the equipment and have never worked on some of the equipment that that's like this so the plumbing is
original the much of the electricity is original um and the panel behind you is original original yes all right so you know in that context so the building is is sort of battling in
need of renovation it's it's you know reached its and useful uh life as a building um and and so we're now applying to uh the MSBA for
help in uh renovating this building and uh and I want to turn it over to James and and and and Steve if you could just you know tell us about the MSBA process and tell us what it is that the Mass
School Building Authority looks for in a building to help a town renovate that building maybe James if you want to start off yeah sure thing Paul yeah now Massachusetts has a state program run by
the Massachusetts School Building Authority uh where it's basically a a grant reimbursement program that uh supports all the school districts in the state um the way you become a part of this
program is to apply uh what's called a statement of interest they have a a yearly um statement of interest filing period and we're just about on the cusp of that of that ending here um but you
apply where you can you can you know if your school is no longer seems to be meeting its educational mission or the facilities are outdated um that you apply and the MSBA will reimburse uh depending on your your town
or or city's um economic factors a certain portion of the cost that it costs to build a school a lot of the things they look into are uh you know that what what's the age of the building you know um and and in this case you
know a lot of our last projects um that we've seen are you know 1970s that that are getting accepted and and being replaced andor renovated and so you know 1950s we feel we feel good that that it would be a good candidate um but other
things they look at is the amount of space per student um the current projected enrollments you know is enrollments increasing decreasing uh and you know what we've talked about here the condition of what we call what he was calling the equipment uh but we
call those the building systems you know the electrical system in the building the plumbing system the fire protection um and heating you know the heating systems um and and for us that in in at Lawrence that seems to be the most
critical um because it's it's behind the walls it's it's hidden and and therefore it's it's hard to get to um but then you know they also look at the general environment of the building and as I mentioned it's it's it's general
appropriateness um of the building to meet the educational mission okay so you know we have you know in a few days we'll be filing as James has mentioned the statement of interest for in layman's terms an application uh for
the renovation of the building and uh and and part of that process is doing a building assessment um so we hire the experts to come in and take a look at this building and Steve and Tom maybe
you guys can walk us through the process itself uh of the building assessment and how you came about doing it yeah thank thanks Paul well the the assessment really starts with our gathering all the
documents on the building uh all of the original construction drawings the um other elements reports that could have been done over the years things like the AHA report uh having the the in-depth
conversations with with Dawn and others in the in the school department who have experienced some of the issues uh that they've experienced over the years and then we go in with our team and we look at the building really from
from roof down through the the basement inside and outside looking at uh all of the systems looking at the general construction the structural system the mechanical electrical plumbing fire
protection uh all of the elements of the building including things like um you know clock systems and and security systems and really getting an understanding of what's there now and
what it would take to bring those back to a standard whereby the school department could continue to use this building you know for 20 30 years down the road so we look at replacement of major systems we look
at how old the individual systems are whether they have exceeded their life expectancy and if so we then include those in the deficiency list and budget for uh their replacement so that's that's the process
Paul that we used over a period of months uh on the Lawrence building steve you you just mentioned uh the timing on this but are we extending the
life uh under a full renovation um what would you expect would it be 25 years would it be 50 years would it be another 70 years uh what would it be versus say building a new building
well if we if if a comprehensive renovation were done Paul such that and I'm saying comprehensive where you know those those piping systems and things that James and Don mentioned that are behind walls and under floor if those are replaced and the building is
reconstructed um we design it typically for a 50-year life now that doesn't mean that all systems are going to last 50 years right just as if you owned a vehicle you know you don't expect the tires to last the full life of the of the of the car but the building itself
uh we would design the systems and and the building renovation such that it's looking at a 50-year cycle so before you get we get into the real specifics of this Steve I remember when you first came down and and What what were your
initial impressions of this building when you walked into it the first time and you we walked and did a tour of the building well it's an attractive building but it it struck me as being a high school an old high school a high school
that you know was built in the in the 50s um the size of the classrooms are such that you know it it they were sized for what you would size typically for a high school it it did not appear to me to be um and it and it is not configured
for a team teaching middle school but it's a beautiful building i mean this there's you know it's it's very attractive from the outside and and do you think uh you know do you
think this is worthy to work from as your base or if you think about building a new building um do you think this is a a worthwhile salvageable project or I Oh
yeah i I do think so and one of the things that you know some of the benefits that you that you or the town would receive versus a new building um are the added spaces that go beyond
what the MSBA would consider sharing for a middle school the auditorium for instance um they would not share uh you would not be able to have that auditorium the the size of the gymnasium
would not be uh shared to that extent so there are some extra spaces in the building that you can achieve if you renovate this building and and use it in that benefit so just just so us layman understand so essentially when you say
share what uh the MSBA wouldn't subsidize the uh auditorium as it exists today uh or if we were to renovate we or try to replicate the school and build a new school having a 7,000 square foot
auditorium uh they wouldn't subsidize that building of that auditorium the town would have to pay for that on its own is that correct yeah that's correct yeah james has had has had even more uh workings as an owner's project
manager directly with the MSBA so he could he might be able to share more information on that i'm not sure James yeah Steve that's absolutely right yeah Paul um with with the MSBA who works they they just um if you're a there are
some strings attached if you will uh to get to to access their funding and they they don't think that um an auditorium is necessarily should be a part of a middle school uh so that's not part of their program so um as Steve was
mentioning us renovating would allow us to keep it as as a space um or put differently that would be a detraction if we were to try to replace the Lawrence School with a brand new school is that we would not be allowed at least
be as part of this project to uh include an auditorium all right that's I mean I think those points are are are important for the general public to understand and the auditorium use here goes well beyond
what the school does for its own school-based programs uh it's it's a functional part of the town uh just last night the town meeting was held here um with you know many hundreds of of
individuals uh town meeting members uh participating in uh the budgetary discussions for the town so uh and that happens twice a year here as well as there's many outside groups uh that come in and use the uh auditorium for their
own performances and and Tom or Dawn is there you know can you give a sense of uh the usage of the space in the auditorium for example and the the gym for by outside groups so we uh the
auditorium is used for dance recital uh Christmas time the Nutcracker concerts um town meeting like you said the gym is used just about December late November all the way to February or March for
basketball travel basketball both Saturdays and Sundays okay so it it it's pretty and you have you have a summer program that is here as well that doesn't use the gym all
right all right so uh let me go back to Steve and Tom and maybe you could just walk us through the the actual assessment what are some of the things that you uh have found and uh and what
the cost might be uh to do the renovation or part of the renovation I should say tom you want to handle this piece yes yeah I can run through well really some of the uh some of the basic
elements are and again some of the I'll be repeating some of the things that Don said but I basically some of our major findings go back to the major distribution systems um plumbing heating electrical
um they were all 75 year old systems at this point and the basic school building um the original building um is 117,400 square ft and the addition in in
1996 was another 14,800 square ft so we're totaling 132,200 square ft um if you run through the building
itself um again it's basically a combination of a structural steel and wood framing um there are a number of uh issues as far as
uh we're looking at a a mixed roofing system in that some of the roof is asphalt shingles some isdm uh the windows and actually this is one of the one of the pluses on the exterior of the building um the windows
have been most of the windows have been replaced with the a thermally broken uh aluminum frame uh window so that's a plus as far as the exterior of the building um and in keeping the building itself the mechanical systems as I said
before um we have a domestic domestic water and fire protection systems um gas water heaters the building is fully sprinklered um we are running gas boilers in this case and I believe the boilers
are if I remember correctly uh about 10 or 12 years old um but they will be getting near the end of their useful life um as we move forward with this process and again we do have a um a
decent electrical service coming into the building so I mean the overall building I hate to refer to it as the bones of the building but I mean the basic building itself is is very sound um as John had mentioned though the big
issue that we're running into is that these different distribution systems uh whether it be plumbing heating electrical um are 75 years old and um you know due to minerals in the water um
that helps create some corrosion in the piping so you're dealing with uh pinhole leaks that could be occurring anywhere within the system uh it could be occurring within walls um again it's very complicated and not a simple task to a chase down where
the problem is and then b correct it um and you know I hate to bring up the the spectre of mold but you know wherever there's a water leak there's a possibility of mold growth so these are some of the issues that um
you know you want to you'd like to catch as soon as possible you want to get those uh issues resolved now so that they don't become uh much bigger issues so they don't become health issues um you you divided up uh in your
analysis u the uh you know the evaluation into three scopes uh scope one was immediately necessary-critical scope two was necessary not yet critical and scope
three was recommended can you walk us through what you found that was immediately necessary and critical you mentioned probably the same items but uh plumbing electrical etc well those are exactly the items that
we're going to be talking about because again those are unfortunately they're very those are the I'll say the big ticket items those are some of the more expensive items and again those are the things that pro
need um the most need or have the the greatest need or the most immediate need for replacement um yeah I'm just looking at the mechanical aspect of uh uh our FCA
um we're looking at you know the elevator needs work um that's a scope one item uh the plumbing system can I just stop you there Tom for a moment when you mention the elevator
um most buildings have two elevators is that not correct um uh that this is only one one elevator servicing uh 500 roughly students if that we have a problem with that elevator then we have a problem with uh
you know mobility between floors here is that correct absolutely i mean any student that has any accessibility issues um really can't move through the building if that elevator is not functional there's no good way for them to to
access the other floors of the building and again that build that elevator was put in in 19 I've got it listed as 1980 so I mean we're looking at a 45y old elevator yeah
so even in repairing that elevator or replacing it there's still a need for another elevator as a as a backup to the single elevation exactly i mean it would be this would be
a great opportunity to add a second elevator so you have that um so you have that backup so you have those facilities available but I mean going through the scope one
items that really should that again are having immediate issues with right now uh the plumbing system um the you know the fire protection
system again like I say that came in in 1961 so again it's it was very forward thinking for this for the town to put a fire protection system in the school at that point in time um but it's just it's
an old system at this point uh the steam piping uh the fan coil units uh in the in the classrooms you know all of these items um by and large go back to the original
construction uh let me just run through the unit ventilators um and that there are a couple of items as far as things that are not in the school at the moment or I'll say in the special needs classrooms there is a need for
um air conditioning and at the moment um you know simple portable units are being used um you know they're not terribly efficient and they really don't do they're not going to do a good a good job for the classroom they may be uh
serving the need on a temporary basis but again you know um there is a need in those loc locations for air conditioning for uh better more more highly developed uh
temperature control uh gym again the gymnasium heating system goes back to 1950 um a lot of the rooftop equipment rooftop fans and that um are just old
pieces of equipment so what we were seeing is that I mean the school Yeah is is wellmaintained but there's a point where
a number of these systems just wear out like uh like Steve was commenting um you know if you're driving you know your car is not going to go 100,000 miles on the same set of tires um you're going to
have to do maintenance and at some point in time you're going to have to do major uh maintenance and that's where we are at this point so uh you can keep putting band-aids um again as Don was saying you
know he's constantly fix uh fixing leaks he's constantly uh uh you know fighting with problems that again that also takes away from um some of the other things that he could do in the school as far as it's taking people
away from maintenance um and again if you're calling in outside contractors that's money being spent um on just repairs that's going to be an ongoing issue so Tom in your and Steve in your opinion
um how long can you wait renovating a building of this age do we have five years to go do we have 10 years to go do we have 15 years to go for I mean you know the MSBA process itself is an
8-year process if we're accepted into the program this year but I mean uh if we didn't apply if we decided to defer you know the application process for several years you know what position could the
building be in well um that's a I mean that's a I I can't predict Paul but given what we've seen and given uh what
Dawn's um running into if if a major system were to go it could shut the building down and and you would have to address it you know immediately if there was a major you know a really major uh steam leak or
multiple steam leaks or multiple water leaks or uh any of the the major building systems that um you know that suddenly uh gave out uh you'd be out of business until you fixed
it and and at that point we would be fixing it on our own oh absolutely under emergency conditions yeah yeah so the the MSBA we'd be out of outside of the MSBA process would be picking up 100% of
the tab on that uh yes and and figuring out where the where the students go potentially so I mean we've if if I you know if you you know for the person that may be seen
this video so you know the concept of delay is is in my view rolling the dice would would you know is you know both financially uh in terms of getting you know getting
help with renovating this building but also in in the the continuity the building is that correct yeah you'd be rolling the dice yeah i think every year you go by you're rolling the dice and and I know that you you've had issues
come up in the past and you've you've done you know emergency repairs but you know maybe they haven't been of a of a catastrophic nature but they could be okay um All right so I I mean Tom you've
made it clear about scope one you know those are the things that we've been talking about to the community about the plumbing the electrical um some of the heating components u and so on what about scope two what are the
issues that you see that aren't as critical but are still needed uh excuse me i hope that not making too much background noise um looking at scope 2 again there are
some issues as far as again I'm looking at the electrical systems for that matter um uh the computer networking system computer technology system in the school is old now again it doesn't need to be
replaced immediately but again it's dated um that's something that again more and more students I everybody's on a laptop at this point and uh the system just isn't designed for that
um you know the security system in the school there's a security system now but it could be updated and expanded um the you know the generator um could be replaced or by that you know
by time scope two again that's the the fiveyear range um by then it'll be um you know at its useful life so and that's something that could be replaced um the stage lighting and controls
um are original to uh to that building so again there's much more efficient systems there are much more much better systems again these are things that would be improvements to the school but are not uh I don't want to say life or
death issues but you know they're not they're not as critical as some of the things we discussed in scope one as far as uh you know plumbing and HVAC and how about the roof where would the roof fall in on that perhaps another way to look
at it Paul uh is once you cross the threshold of needing to replace the systems that we were talking about the electrical the mechanical those things that are behind the walls i mean to repair those and to
replace those it's so intrusive it it would make the most efficient or economic sense yeah if if you have to take care of those then all the others that you're mentioning would follow to be a part of the project um to
put it differently if you decided not to take on replacing the the electrical mechanical and plumbing systems you know um rolling the dice but you know you want to take care of the roof
well well now you you know you put a new roof on the on the cafeteria that's going to last 30 years but you still don't your electrical and your plumbing and your HVAC is HVAC is still 70 plus years old and and you know ready for failure at any given moment and so it it
it's almost a question of you know do you we're we're getting to to where are we throwing good money after bad you know we can repair the roof but then you know what happens when we have to really update the entire you know building
systems you know uh those internal systems for the school um does that make sense yeah no it does and and and I think you know that as you said in order to access some
of the real problematic areas like plumbing like electrical you're going to be tearing into walls and and so on and and to address issues such as HVAC i mean um we don't have air conditioning
in this school and and a a modern day um junior high school would be having air conditioning in it um and this building gets pretty warm those of us are sitting here getting filming this thing are starting to sweat to begin
with um and uh I can fix that [Laughter] we can was splice that out but uh but you know my point is that yeah I mean
you need to do enough work uh to re uh replace these systems that you you might as well do the entire building while you're at it right um and uh and Tom
what are the what are the Tom Bushy um what are the issues that the students find with the building so I can address it best uh probably by talking about some of the
uh some of the the pros first uh some of the things that that we like about the building which speak to uh you know a renovation of this current space and that's uh the layout is really functional of the building some rooms
and stuff need to be moved around to be more conducive to a team structure like uh Stephen was talking about before but um the building's proximity to town is really helpful we are able to take walking trips uh some exciting
educational and uh team building outings if you will uh you know without having to procure transportation uh so so the location of the building is is great uh some of the some of the challenges
um uh you know I would say you it's been mentioned here about the heat and when we arrive back to school uh it is very warm when we get back from the summer and it gets very warm uh towards the end
of the uh school year and then over the course of the winter we do hear some some complaints if you will about the uh the the heating dispersement uh and and you know that that my understanding is that those are
the types of things that are going to make the building more comfortable for the kids which of course makes it uh more comfortable to staff members and just provides just a overall better learning experience for the students uh and and just a a you know
more conducive uh space for for teaching and growing um our lockers could be improved you know I could I could go on with more details if if you'd like i don't want to uh go out of order here
though but uh you know we we we could modernize the the styling of the building with uh some paint to bring us in line with the you know Falmouth's the district's Falmouth
colors maroon gray and white and we've had those conversations it would be a good time to do that with a renovation but um Paul I could keep going on and talk about things for the kids what the kids say but uh I don't know how much time or how detailed you want me to get
into it thanks Tom i you know I the more the marrier I think because I think you know we're doing this for the kids and uh it's really good to get their their input into what they see and
how proud they are of the building um and what they you know what they think needs improvement um you know in terms of classrooms uh you know we have the the building assessment doesn't looks at the core of
the building it doesn't look at the classroom reconfiguration um but Tom maybe you could you speak to um you know how the classrooms restrict you know what a modern uh
junior high school would look like today sure yeah i I mean again speaking from an instructional viewpoint um and it's been mentioned in this meeting today we rely more on technology so uh charging stations for devices out
electrical outlets and the Wi-Fi infrastructure are really important to us and uh the age of the building is not always conducive to uh to streamlining those processes for those instructional resources um you know we but also of
course we don't rely solely on tech uh the kids you know we need uh you know updated furniture and spaces to prov provide for flexible seating arrangements and group work uh the the room for teachers to move about uh the
classroom to to check in with students small groups and uh this differs from traditional classroom structures where you would might imagine an older building with uh the desks in rows and the teacher doing the instruction from in front of the classroom just education
looks differently now than than it did in the 50s uh and 60s and um you know in my conversations with Steve and James we've talked about ways to improve upon that um also uh you know since the original
construction of the building uh there's been extensive and necessary special education uh services have been introduced and developed over time and uh some of those changes are are impactful when it comes to uh classrooms for substantially separate programs or
spaces for small groupoup testing that's needed on a ongoing basis and our current layout does not always meet those needs and um you know having the ability to to work with Steve uh James and Tom to talk
about you know what what we feel as a as a you know necessary uh components or renovation this is going to be really exciting to to talk about ways to continue to support this school and this and our student body
you know we I was struck when we went through the uh the counting exercise for classrooms um Tom and I you know and you know for example we have only
nine classrooms that are greater than 850 square feet in size um and five of which are the are used as labs and only four are used as general education i'm just going to
walk people through these numbers for example so again nine classrooms are over 850 square ft of size james and and Steve can you just tell us what the minimum classroom sizes that
uh the MSBA would uh view if you were building a new building today for a junior high school yeah it would be 850 square ft okay so 850 square feet we have nine of them not
the majority so nine out of 50 classroom 14 classrooms are between 701 and 849 square ft 19 classrooms are between
551 to 700 square ft and 8 classrooms are 550 square ft or less in size and and I I think Tom at one point you mentioned that your average size
classroom is in the mid600s is that right if you you did this Yeah yeah we did that yeah the averages um but if I can add another Paul go ahead sorry no no no no please continue no I was just
going to add about uh the with the with the the team structure uh one of the key components is uh you know geographical proximity to similar teachers on the team uh you know to to preserve that
school within a school feel and uh you know since the building was not designed with that in mind there are times where we're underutilizing space in an effort to maybe keep some uh special ed students uh in the same area as the team
uh with without having a a classroom that's uh appropriately sized we may be having a small group scenario in a classroom that's big enough for a full 25 student class and uh with the with a
you know a redesign with a team structure in mind at its foundation uh would be better able to to you know provide a you know more optimal experience so and and just just for the layman's uh the outsider hearing this
time can you can you just tell us what the a team structure is is this essentially taking the sixth grade and creating two uh groups of sixth graders and two teams in essence well I could
speak for for Lawren's and it and it's grades seven and eight and we do have two teams per grade uh with each team having a a a core academic teacher math science history ELA a special educator and a teaching assistant on that one
team um and the students on that team have those teachers in common uh the this is a this is a uh educational philosophy that's that's you know we consider foundational uh it it is uh
time-t tested and data supported to provide students with a a safer uh and and impactful educational experience where the team teachers are able to connect with com students in common to
talk about ways to best support them academically um socially and emotionally and then uh to you know with the other services uh guidance counselors uh tagging into team meetings which occur periodically
are scheduled and built into the schedule and um you know we we we believe in it and it's we've seen its success and we hope to continue that so and part of the challenge of that team
structure today in this building my understanding is that the science labs are are separated is that correct that the science labs are all located on one wing of the building yep that is correct that the the layout of the building had
you know had um more of a high school uh layout where you know if you walk into Fmouth High School you might walk down a wing that is all ELA teachers or uh you know uh the history teachers are all clustered in one wing but with a team
structure uh that's that's not ideal because you want the teachers that are bound by the uh the team uh relationship to be in closer proximity to each other so in this case the kids have to travel to get to their science labs
and that just takes up a lot of time i mean we could in a modern building the old philosophy of keeping the science lab in one place was because you were sharing all the piping the gas pipes etc
in one wing of the building that with the architects and well it it was that might yeah it's it well it was really it's just a a very it's a different educational philosophy
how most uh high schools are structured so you have departments and those and those teachers that all teach the science or teach math or instruct uh language arts or foreign languages
or they work together um and so they you know the the traditional high school arrangement is to is to cluster those um by departments and they share equipment
it's it's a it's a it's a very different um educational philosophy philosophy than the team teaching concept at a middle school where you have you know four or five teachers for each team and and they get to know each and every
student and they know if um if one student is is um not performing to the level um where they could be because They're talking amongst you know teachers are talking amongst each other
and consequently that middle school those ages it's been um shown and this is this this middle school educational philosophy has been uh really been been happening as long as I've been in this
industry which is uh almost almost 50 years this is um you know this is what what is done in the middle school level as the best teaching process for students and I can second that Paul you
know just even on the other MSBA projects on the other school districts that I've worked with and been a part of um where they're looking at their educational plan and each and every one is is doing exactly what Tom Tom Bushy is is mentioning you know that it's all
project team based and you know and and these these teams so um this is the way that the Massachusetts is is is wanting um even in the the reviews of the the submissions that we give to the MSBA they keep coming back with yes can we
have more project- based learning can we have more team- based learning uh and versus the traditional we'll call it you know with the the you know each wing was by department so and and as we're mentioning yeah this building just it was it was designed by department it
wasn't designed to be by team and and that does have an impact on you know the physic that's where the physical the the physicality of the building and its limitations impacts how uh we can teach or how more effectively teach okay as as
as a as a layman can I try to just sum this up in my mind and and uh but if I think about a high school or college campus and I think about the department structure uh that you see where you go
to a separate building for example for science or separate building for history and so on or or department in the high school level but the critical difference is that the the mature 30 the social de development the behavioral development
of a junior high school or classes whether they be seven or eight or six seven and eight of are very different and so having these teachers more closely as a group across disciplines
track their students understand how they're performing across multiple topics is that is of great need of value is that am I stating that Tom Bushy or is that Yep yeah and and also the the
student experience as far as um the connections that they build with similar teachers and uh the connections that they build with their peers over the course of the year by being in uh you know however many number of classes with the same groups of students take going
on the same field trips uh taking lunch together uh doing team building exercises it's all part of the the middle and junior high school experience when you have a team structure so so
just to emphasize for people that may be listening is that we're taking what was built as a high school and renovating that into a modern-day junior high school is that correct yeah we've been operating as a
junior high school in a building that was designed as a high school uh in my opinion with success for uh quite a long time uh but you know in this community we we want to continue to get better and uh continue to preserve the the things
that are important to the town uh and the and the you know emotional connection that uh people may have historically with this school building so uh it makes sense to try to to try to renovate and improve the experience that
we already think is really outstanding all right so if I could come back to to Tom Mloud and to Steve Habib you know you you pick it you put together a you know
comprehens comprehensive assessment of this building of the of the core components of this building um you also mentioned a a cost factor in here uh about the renovation and I and I just
want to address that have you guys addressed that uh and what it does include and what it doesn't include importantly um so maybe if uh SA Tom if
you could take a Sure absolutely well Paul what it includes um are the renovations of the existing systems the existing building systems and replacement of the systems that are
outdated throughout the building as well as replacement of the roof replacement of you know the mechanical systems electrical systems it does include some replacement of of um elements within some classrooms in
terms of uh casework and and um you know science storage elements it does not include reconfiguration of the interior in order to set the school up to operate as a
team teaching middle school it does not include that that's the uh that's the factor that you know would get incorporated into the comprehensive design and um and that would then be
estimated following that uh design work right to be to be fair to Steve Habib and Tom um that's that's what will be studied in detail as part if accepted into the MSBA program if and when
accepted into the MSBA program um they will look they will look at um not only how they can you know upgrade the physical building but then also how could it better or best meet the
educational mission of the school and you know what that would look like and what its associated cost would look like and that process will all be transparent um there will be community forums where we would present this information to the to the town so that they are aware of
the options that are getting discussed and designed in the associated costs and uh so that everyone will know what what the potential options are and and one of those options that the MSBA does ask you to look at if I'm correct is it can be
it can be all the way Yep it can all be all the way from um just upgrading so bringing this building this existing building from a code perspective you know if you just had to meet today's code to make this building safe uh or
you know according to today's that's the purpose of the codes is to make it safe you know structurally electrically and mechanically um fire you know fire protection wise to that minimum level to an to a renovation of the building where
we're now moving walls to see how we can you know better educate the students with different spaces within the within the you know exterior structure to maybe an addition if that was so desired all the way to and then uh the the last
option of a completely brand new building so just when you're accepted into the MSBA program you're required to study all those options so that that district that town can figure out what might be in their best interest that they want to do going forward okay to
this this report is really the starting point that's right the major items the starting point and that's to let the MSBA know uh what what is what are the issues with the current building or what's the status of the current
building and and in you know the figure here was mentioned uh in 2032 not today's dollars right but if all of this work uh was completed and
it's again this is This does not include the room reconfiguration um uh at the building but it would be just about $und00 million in
2032 not today's dollars is that is that correct oh yes that's correct yeah yeah all right and and so and and you know just to emphasize that that that's only part
of the cost of the renovation of this building though the key components that we started off discussing um is that correct and I and I I I I also want to say there are components
of this building that were done in recent history uh and and Don maybe you can tell us that the windows were done in in 2014 2015 and uh and when were the uh and that was
an MSBA project as well correct u and uh when were the um the boilers were done in 60 okay so the the there are there has been some work is and and Tom not all
all of these have to be replaced right that's correct and you know one of the things I was saying is that you know if we're looking at you know 2032 by the time you hit that point yes the boilers would most likely need to be
replaced again that they're going to be you know near their um the end of their useful life so um again that's looking forward so even if you even if you just maintain this
building you're still looking at some some major costs down the road i mean those things are just un unavoidable and on the other hand the uh the windows that were replaced and that's what we were thinking of keeping you know the exterior of the building those would not
in 2032 they they still have more life at that at that point um they would not be in need of replacement yep so one other aspect of the building that we haven't talked about is the
security of the building um particularly the entrance way um and when the students enter the main door today there is not a double set of doors with a a small atrium the vestibule
separating them you know uh there is essentially one door opens and the students immediately have uh you know a choice of going up or down the stairs uh and that's before you reach
the front office tom can you tell us about what you want want from modernday security entrance to this building yeah I mean precisely what you just mentioned Paul and we our office staff
is diligent in um you know who they let in the building of course but we have to rely on the established practice of folks coming into the building and uh you know walking straight from the foyer into the uh main corridor taking a right
and then walking you know 10 yards down the hall before they get to the main office uh and you know this this is a practice that that it you know like I said is established and folks do it but occasionally someone will not pay
attention and either go up or down the stairs uh or take a left and we have to rely on uh calling for admin on the radio to track someone down or look at the video cameras to make sure that um you know everything is okay and the
person's getting redirected to the office uh you know we also have uh you know we also have a scenario where the main entrance is not accessible uh if uh someone with mobility issues arrives to the school building as a guest they have to enter
through one of the side doors where we have ramps that's something that we would want to take into consideration when looking at the main entryway of the building as well so one of the one of the possibilities here
for this building is to actually to some elongate that front entrance push it further towards the sidewalk uh level it towards the street as well
and and you'd have a much more controlled entrance at that point um and uh you know in your your sort of main office level could be in that extension um but that would be a great
opportunity to do now under a renovation that we couldn't as a singular project do uh if we were trying to fund this on our own yeah i you know I just want to be clear that the building is safe and secure we
we we feel uh safe here in this space but we could make an improvement uh like you just mentioned Paul so uh that's just I just wanted to make sure that people weren't feeling like you know you know we don't we don't feel safe here to learn as a school community right well
can I add again it goes back to the age of the school because when the school was built uh security the way we think of it today was a non-issue and the whole concept was to move the
students within the building as quickly as possible so that coming in the front door and being able to go directly to the lower level down a set of stairs or directly to the upper level uh up a set of stairs was an ideal design solution
at the time um times have changed so to develop a controlled vestibule area so that again people can come into a point and they're at meeting locked doors at
that point but now they have uh an intercom system to the office and then the office has control about letting basically letting people into the building um uh unfortunat I mean we're talking to
um a number of schools that have this same issue and again trying to develop just a a form of control of who's coming and going from the building um is just critical in today's environment
so uh I I' I'd like to just I just want to pull uh poll all of you and and and you know as you think of the options of whether uh we renovate this building
or we build a new building i I just what is your professional recommendation seeing where the building is today um and maybe I can uh start with Tom um then James and Steve
if you don't mind I'll start off i mean I think you know the exterior the building itself is in is in good shape um yes in looking at the um the FCA you
know the roofing work is in scope one um we have some of the repair work to the exterior of the building in scope two and three and it's you know there's minor repointing to do there's um some minor soft repair work to do but the
work to the exterior of the building um looking at the big picture is really fairly minimal or very secondary to the work that needs to be done um inside and the to update the interior and
renovate the interior would be more cost effective I believe than building a new building um and it would give you the opportunity to meet the students needs better yeah I think I think there absolutely
would be a a lower cost to renovate this particular building and uh given what I've heard and seen and the the just the historic value of it to the
town the location u it makes sense in my mind to head in that direction because that will all be examined during the the initial process once you're accepted into the MSBA court program
and I think Yeah no thank you Paul and I think that's a great segue Steve thank you um you know we we have our thoughts but I I think it puts it puts it back that um and this is good that that at least
from our professional opinions that the school is an excellent candidate to be renovated we've dealt with other schools where you know we've really we've really recommended it would probably be best to start from scratch you know and start start new it's good that this one still has a lot
of with some modifications it still has a lot of life left to it you know and we appreciate that um taking into account the MSBA's program and what their requirements are you know as we mentioned before the the fact that it has the auditorium that's that's another
added plus a bonus i imagine that um the size of the gym compared to what a typical middle school gym has you know we might be uh gaining on that front as well you know we're going to renovate the gym but you know the size of it um
if it were new might be a little bit smaller so um but but at any case um all this is again I would just want to reiterate while we may think it's this is a it is a good candidate which is great for the district um it's really the district's
choice you know and if they want to renovate or if they want a new school um but we once accepted into the MSBA program all that information will be given to the district so that you know they can decide uh which direction they
want to head in so I let me ask a couple more questions on this um and and and let me you know for Steve and Tom you know as we let's assume we approach the path now of renovation and the construction
is underway what is the likelihood of a big surprise a prize a surprise that fundamentally uh uh shape uh you know shapes the overall
cost of this project uh and causes I I I don't I mean if it's if the preliminary work is done to the extent that it should be
um those shouldn't exist because there would uh some destructive demolition that would that would be occurring and we'd be you'd be talking about a very major renovation uh that would be redesigning
the interior of that building and if the work upfront is done obviously there there with any construction project there can be changes I
proportionally I can't I can't predict Paul I wish I could give you a straight clear this is it answer okay um understand um but if we would are
we confident of about what we've seen so far i mean yes yes but you know there there will be a lot of uh a lot of as I said a lot of investigative work um
looking at things such as seismic design requirements and you know other elements that would be costly i think we I think those can be uh
incorporated they need to be thought through they need to be studied and assessed and their uh those elements fall under that phase when you're accepted into the MSBA's core program
and there's a reason why you pay a lot of money for that feasibility study phase as as James can uh attest because those those elements need to be flushed out in a very comprehensive fashion
right so I I I think and what I'm getting to and I think for Felmouth residents um one of their reference points uh is the
renovation of of the high school uh which went over budget by a stamp a substantial amount uh it took a long time to complete there were a number of issues how does the process
today differ from a project that was in the early 2000s uh at the high school what what what is it about the MSBA process or just the normal construction process
we now see ourselves in would help protect from for that it's a great that's a great question because I am familiar with the the Felmouth High School um uh renovation project
from its initiation and its uh initial study which was reviewed in September of 2001 uh it's a very different process the the
the study phase that's done the schematic study and schematic design phase that's done and required to be done by the MSBA now is a totally different animal it's a it's a a very
robust comprehensive assessment where uh a lot of individuals and companies that focus on design and
construction review the concepts that was not done in 2001 when it was determined the school committee decided to move forward with the renovation of the Felmouth High School there
was one design firm that did the initial evaluation and schematic design there was a firm retained to review that that recommended at the time not to
move forward with that particular design but it was determined that that was the design that was desired and um I don't believe there was the thoroughess during that early phase that is required now by MSBA i think if if
you've hit it just right Steve it's uh we almost need to go back to the definition of schematic design and on normal construction projects schematic design is really uh it's it's it's the general ideas locked down but with an
MSBA schematic design it is far more thorough um and if you can imagine for the district's point of view you this is the time at the end of schematic design where we are agreeing with the MSBA
we're coming up with a cost estimate that we're going to give to the MSBA at the at the end of schematic design and they're going to agree to that cost and what their reimbursement share is going to look like based on that cost so the
trickle down effect on that is we as your advisors and your designers we make sure at that point that we try not to go over that budget because anything else well above and beyond that cost is going to be on the 100% on the district versus
shared with the MSBA so when we get to the end of schematic design and on an MSBA project we make sure every nook and cranny is looked under um and the MSBA kind of requires that too they don't allow you to very little movement of
walls and locations like this if this is where you're saying the auditorium is then it's going to be there throughout the design you can't be switching it and moving it around anymore um because that's that's cost that they weren't anticipating so it is a that's what
Steve said it's a much more thorough um process than what we typically uh attribute to to a non MSBA project at schematic design it's it's really farther along and um and and
and again a lot of it is based on cost all right i and I think I well number one let me thank you all for taking out uh an afternoon here to talk to us u I really appreciate it appreciate the
opportunity for the community to hear your voice and opinions as well um and uh and at this point I think we're going to call it a wrap and we'll we'll catch up with you later on talk to you thanks
everyone thank you on the back side of this wall there's a bathroom the pipes are behind this wall they had a leak 2 or 3 days later the water started coming out we had to remove this whole bank of lockers to get into repair so the pipes are actually
going up the cinder block between the cinder block wall and the cinder block wall yes and so there's a twoft cavity i could not fit in that hole so the plumber had us take this whole unit out we gave her an access but he
couldn't fit in you see the distance see the pipes that white one was leaking and it filled the net inside it didn't come out until finally it was deep enough to drip down the pipe and into the So you you you can't see this happening in real
time you have to wait for it for the water to find its way correct out and that's true throughout this building a lot of the plumbing is behind walls something simple like a dripping pipe you can deal with but you don't see any of this this is true on every bathroom
there's a brick wall on the other side of every bathroom so you have a girls bathroom here you have a one above one above and you have a boys and boys bathroom downstairs okay so when the plumber arrived we had a leak behind the wall we didn't know where we took out
the back of the locker and we sent in the skinniest guy he had working for when he got in there he realized there were multiple leaks so we had to remove the whole bank of lockers to So all of these three leaks occurred at the same time or is it Well when he found one and
patched it that's when they started causing yes so at that point he said "We've got to replace the pipe." You could not get a 10 foot length of pipe in this locker so you had to take them out the whole locker the whole locker out and that's is that fairly common no
all over the school i show you shut offs behind don't film that um but yeah I got the lock where the actual shut off is in the back of a lock that they cut out that's your shut off another thing I'd like to show you the leak I told you about on
the roof yeah this wire is for the pump that I have to run when it rains because the drain can't keep up with the water the water can come up to my waist this is the original design drain on the roof it does not handle even a a normal rainy
day normally if someone hits a foul ball the ball will drain the drain the drain leaves i've got it constantly clean so and so this is just the extension cord needed right now talk to me about this roof here that that's over the
cafeteria and and the wood shop area but as you can see how the water's pooling the insulation underneath has gotten wet and it's dried out and it's heaved and and it's forcing the insulation underneath to raise which is affecting
the drainage of the roof that spot you see there there's more along the way because the insulation is now swollen and it's creating pockets right so so that insulation underneath gets wet
expands uh and it also expands it's pressed against another piece so it heats so okay and what about the skylights here they were all covered up but originally they were glass on the right side and the the light coming in
was too much for today's eno boards and it was really hot in the cafeteria so rather than eliminate them completely we just boarded up and roofed over the glass side of the window right and is there um is there issues with the snow
accumulation on these uh skylight snow builds up along the skylight see the lead on the side the water goes right up in the lead and down into the cafeteria okay one one other thing is also all along the lead going around the building okay so one
other uh point I wanted or a couple points from the vantage point this is an HVAC that's the air conditioning units for the main office and health and Okay and these are these equipment these How long How old are these the 97 those
units went in so 27 years ago correct when the edition went on 28 years ago they were air conditioned so these these would need to be replaced along here uh as well is that correct correct as well as those mechanical units
[Music] yeah and one other piece and it may be difficult people see this on the screen you see the orange uh vents that stick out yes the hoods the hoods yeah okay
can you tell us what they are and they're the intakes for all the univvents every univvent has an intake to bring fresh air in the problem I have with them is on a sunny day like today that's metal it's heating up right now so on a warm day and you still want to
bring fresh air in so you still have the fans running it's sucking in i've had it suck in 95 100 degree air because of the metal hood so you're not helping given the fresh air you're making the room even hotter than it is hotter than it is so you have to just shut it down shut it
down and they open windows and and you hope for the best but yes they heat up extremely hot in the summertime when we clean we get off this floor as fast as we can because it gets so hot up here yeah what time What's the internal temperature in this hallway and when I
work I've had it up to 100 jeez 105 yeah i just keep my guys down on those those days but yeah especially when sun comes up i got guys that come in at 2 o'clock in the morning what what about uh May or June in the spring for students it can be December when the sun is hitting
these windows this upstairs gets extremely warm it can be 70 80° in December in December only where the sun is hitting okay so usually the side building is telling the inside of the
ashu okay because of the sun so Tom tell us about this classroom this is sort of a a regular site size classroom yep this is one of our on team ELA teachers classrooms uh you could see
that uh you know with chairs up there I think 26 or 27 chairs in here so the largest class size might be around there 25 26 uh on average a little smaller but with the chairs down and students in the seats of course there's a lot less room
in this in the square footage of this classroom and also like I was mentioning before uh when we were uh talking previously about the difference in instructional strategies for uh teachers today um they're not standing up at a at
a podium in front the class delivering instruction they're moving about the room uh using the touchboard uh accessing materials in the back of the classroom as you can see with the uh bookshelves and just general checking in with student groups in the front on the
side in the back uh so having more space of course is going to make the educational experience better i mean this is uh 600 square ft we're in i I think the modern day
uh we talked earlier the Monday modern one day requirement on this would be around 850 square ft so it's a significant difference all right so Thomas this one of your typical labs yep this is an eighth grade uh on team
science lab uh similar to the ELA classroom we were in before there there might be around 20 uh 20 to 24 students in this classroom setting over the course of the day one teacher teaches in here we've got uh
enough resources to do the job but as you can see there's a outdated scenario and uh the other science labs look very similar so you know we would be exploring the option of a more centralized lab with more up-to-date
equipment and uh space to collab with other teachers so in these spaces today I mean if you an up-to-date space you use have a separate lab and you may have a separate classroom for the classroom
work and then you class literally walks into the lab to do lab only work whereas this is sort of a combined space of two yeah i mean I'm I'm not an expert with science instruction but uh you know if you were at the high school you might
see like you just referenced a space where the students are are receiving their daily instruction and then when it's time to do a more robust hands-on experience like a lab experience then they may go to a a more centralized
location with uh better equipment uh a safer environment and uh a a larger space to uh like I said collaborate with other teachers or uh pro possibly introduce a a cross-disciplinary
scenario don what's going on with this hole in the wall there was a leak in the drain and the only way to get to the pipe was to blast a hole through the concrete and put my smallest guy in there to plug the leak to repair it
if I wanted to fit it in myself obviously made it a little bit bigger but yeah that's so done you've done this mult multiple times multiple times i don't want to say many but I've got at least five six times
in different places in bathrooms especially that's where most of the drainage is so and these are just like pinhole leaks set up well this was the drain the drain itself the elbow cracked yeah of the drain as I told you that black pipe is susceptible to crack it
cracks we had to take the elbow off plug the the vent pipe until we could get it fixed that's why that drain plug is hanging there we used it they were done with it they fixed it but again plumber has a half of a time trying to work in those conditions so so Don what room are
we in now we're in the music chorus room it's combination as you can see by the keyboards they use a lot of electricity and Wi-Fi um we've had troubles in the past with power we've done added power we still have
issues with the Wi-Fi the amount of use uh it's not capable of of giving everyone the communication that it needs so this room I this need room needs to
be renovated more power more Wi-Fi access yeah it's become more of a technical you know type of room versus a standard classroom so more tech in here would be required
especially with today's and in this building built in 1950 was not built for all this type of record no no they sang in here and they played their instruments in the element musical so the
chorus musical with the two rooms when this was originally built