##VIDEO ID:yeUZYKeTEO8## [Music] [Music] hi it's Brandon from cran Appliance since 1983 our goal as a family-owned company has been simple to give our neighbors on the cap and Islands a great shopping experience rest easy knowing our professional team will listen to your needs and help you pick the perfect appliances for your home at crane Appliance we know how difficult Appliance shopping can be our team is here for you crane Appliance we call the cap and Island's home Carlson printing 508 548 7303 our email address is Carlson printing aol.com Carlson printing for all your printing needs needs John's Liquor Store 729 Main Street fouth 5085476 2025 it is exactly 6 o'clock and I would entertain a motion to go into executive session to review and consider approval of a proposed workers compensation settlement for a School employee under mgl chapter 30A section 21 A3 so move second okay I have a motion and a second any further discussion amongst the board seeing none all those in favor by roll call please Linsky ey Brown I Mcall ey Goldstone ey tayor I and the board will return to open session at 6:30 good evening and welcome to the meeting of the fouth select board it is January 6 2025 it is exactly 6:30 p.m. and the FMA select board has just returned to this Open session from an executive session I'm going to ask as we open this meeting to please silence your cell phones and make sure that they are silenced and number two please notify me as the chair or if you are making any audio or video recording of This open meeting the placement and operation of the recording equipment should not interfere with the conduct of the meeting please join me for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge Ali to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you we will move into recognitions and I would like to make one recognition and that is for um FHS Jr Silas Gartner who won the MIAA division 2 state championship in Cross Country very big deal he's an incredible Runner and congratulations to him from the select board any other any other recognitions Mr yep I would like to recognize Lieutenant Shawn Doyle who retired this week from the fouth uh police department um many of the mo board members were there and it was very well received uh in excess of 35 years of service to the town so if you see him out and about on a detail wave to him because he still be around but he was great great uh it was a great um send off it was great I felt really lucky to be able to be in attendance there that day it was just a great moment I was really um pleasantly surprised at the number of officers from past and brand new that attended the place was chaker block full and it was quite a testament to Shawn Doyle as both a person a Community member and a police officer and some of those retirees traveled to come yes FW in get there it was it was amazing that was great any other recognitions from the board [Applause] okay we're going to move on we're going to get into announcements and I have an announcement as well and the announcement is um basically to the board is that the fincom will begin its meetings regarding the FY 26 Budget on Wednesday January 8th if any board member has any questions or needs clarification on any item I would encourage you to attend and bring anything back to the board as a whole uh in terms of any uh recommendations that you would like this board to cons consider and they meet I believe at 5:00 at the Herman meeting room that is great on Wednesday that's it for me any other announcements uh Ju Just one since we won't be meeting in two weeks because it's Martin Luther King day uh just that uh as as in past years the Cape Cod foundation and no place for hate will be sponsoring the Martin Luther King breakfast uh this year it is at a different location it is at the uh kuna mid it's been in the SE CEST uh in the past so 9 o'clock you can go on the no haate website uh to register if you want to attend thank you Mr Mcall I'm registered and uh also the uh Mass Municipal association meeting is January 23rd 24th 25th if any selectboard members are interested to attend I'll be I'll be in that as well great any other announcements from the board okay we'll move into public comment public comment may be made on routine matters not on the agenda this evening comments are limited to two minutes please introduce yourself and since the matter has not been included on the agenda the select board will not participate in any discussion or debate of your topic is anyone here for public comment well no one want okay then we will move on we will um actually we cannot start our public hearings just yet so what I would like to do um with the board's approval is to move into the consent agenda interviews community community interviews committee interviews for the golf advisor I'm sorry we can do interviews first certainly we do have interviews for the golf advisory committee is Darcy Hunter here welcome hi I'm Darcy Hunter I live at 14 quen and way okay Mr Hunter is there anything that you would like the board to know about you that is not included in your application um I care about town of fouth about golfing about the fouth country club I've been an avid golfer for 30 years um early on didn't golf a lot because I was raising a family but uh over the past two or three years I golf a couple times a week um I'm an active U member with a group called the birdie boys uh Dave and I manage it together we have 32 members and we golf on Mondays and on Thursdays um my wife also golfs and she just fair in full disclos she she works as an hourly employee at Falmouth behind the bar on Wednesdays and she drives the beer cart on Fridays um and I have been following along for the last three years the unsuccessful RFP um as a uh kind of standing in for the golf advisory committee um I care about the town of Falmouth my wife's had a home here for 60 years we moved here in 2015 um since 2018 we've lived here full-time um I work on the at hitap humanity and Restore store I also volunteer at the uh fouth high school as part of the college mentoring program and I'm a newcomer I uh did my fourth or fifth newcomer parade standing on the parade is a lot of fun uh get the Bild of the parade too and that's pretty good um I'm a successful businessman I work for 38 years for the same company it was a fortune 200 company I work from uh sales intern up to a general manager VP one running one of the divisions uh for me I uh manage based on consensus um and on team building and on accountability um and in general I'm a pretty good project manager and have a lot of success um or a lot of experience in building and construction and I welcome the opportunity to work with the town uh with Carrie Murphy on the golf advisory committee to make sure that we have the best golfing experience for our residents and for our visitors thank you questions from the board um since you golf a lot do you notice any deficiency or any need for improvement at the course there's always opportunity for improvement is there anything that's been uh obvious to you uh I know they're replacing and upgrading the uh golf carts this year year um I think that U when you look at the course uh greens and some of the fairways in very good shape but once you get off that in just the very short rough it it becomes pretty gnarly pretty quick um and there's various other things you know the clubhouse itself really I'm going to say isn't the place you stop and get a sandwich barely a hot dog people might want more than that interesting thank you any other questions M gostone yeah we're at a obviously a key juncture um uh at this point with the the RFP and and um any changes that may be coming in the next 18 months the tenure of this um so I'm curious what is top of mind for you and and why now to to join this committee what's what's kind of your your top motivation well again I moved here uh three years ago when I retired well I moved here in 18 I retired three years ago I golf A Lot Falmouth is very convenient for everything uh the people that I know on the birdie boys are our group there's 32 of us we're all friends we only playing at best place we can and and so is there an opportunity to get in there get involved I know it's an advisory committee so it's pretty light kind of a very hands off kind of thing uh but the club really could be a lot more than it is in certain areas um and is there an opportunity to help I mean I think there's a lot of people in the community that have got a lot of a lot to give and really care about golfing and and I want an opportunity to be engaged in that any other questions from the board thank you thank you is Edward Pride here yep there would be great and I will ask you the same question is there anything you would like the board to know about you that is not written in your application um I think uh well like um him I I do play a lot of golf over there I play nine holes typically I'm not in a uh group um I'm down to an 18 handicap so I'm kind of proud about that um but I do play a lot of golf around the cape um I have a friend who lives in Yarmouth and we try to play all the courses down here and um I noticed that the courses in Yarmouth are owned by the town and I think hyanis owns uh old Barnstable and hyanis golf club and I don't think they have a management you know a company managing the course so I I don't know but maybe um we should look to take over the course and run it ourselves um I just think we should look at other Alternatives I also think that the clubhouse um such as it is isn't servicing the town very well it could be used for a lot of events I mean if you could bring in an entrepreneurial person to run it um you also o have a uh a shed out by the turn on the 18 holes that's never open it used to be open when I was a kid um I mean I grew up down here I didn't go to school here my parents sent me off to boarding school and then my wife and I um inherited the house uh I bought it from my brother we moved down here eight years ago year round and I just want to be more involved in the town um I just think that you know we have a we have a gem over there um I know a lot of courses are going out of business uh I you know there is Cape Cod I mean there there's another alternative so the other idea is why not just shut it down and people can go and play Cape Cod I don't know I just think there are a lot of there are a lot of things that you could do over there that no one's really doing so that's the only reason why I was looking at you know to this position so thank you questions from the board that was a pretty good explanation thank you yeah all right okay thank you thank you all right David Hol been a uh fam resident for almost 25 years been here seven years full-time uh retired from Connecticut and uh when we retired you know we started playing golf and it's a wonderful game because it gets you to think get and you got to be active and so I shared with Peter this concept called the Blue Zone which is how do we make fam with a blue Zone designated place and one the key leverage in the Blue zone is around activity which is which is the golf uh golf course two is friendship you build friendship through these different leagues that you know that you belong to and you meet their spouses and you build more Rel relationships so it's about again extending you know friendships and families so I've gotten known Darcy quite well and Mary quite well through our our leagues that we have on on Monday and Thursday we've also sponsored a group called The Jack and Jill Group which is a uh a group of men and women that come together to play golf in a uh more of a friendly way versus being more active and being competitive so I believe that fam has as an opportunity to utilize the course as a Blue Zone a concept for both residents and for non-residents two is you know we do over 60,000 rounds of golf a year which is 180,000 hours of golf time and so if you can improve that experience through small things like for example to your question of having a u um not hurricane but a thunderstorm warning on the ninth hole on the Osprey because that's 2 and a half miles outside where if there's a thunderstorm in the afternoon you there's no warning system out there so how do we create uh uh an environment that creates safety for golfers that that'll be a market Improvement I'm shared that with uh with mat and Company so I think you know so I think a family has an opportunity to really make this a great place I uh uh also volunteer for the uh Cape Cod uh the airport and building out their corporate strategy Mission Vision and to really expand the whole concept of Blue zone for people to fly uh you fly commercial planes into hyanis as a way to uh experience the cape so that's uh a little bit about my background why I think there's an opportunity here to make this a uh unique uh asset great interesting any questions or comments from the board uh I was going to ask you for um any obvious things that you would see as need for improvement I see you've already mentioned the one with the the warning system is yeah I think also uh things like having water at different holes uh on hot days you know people get uh dehydrated and I think that for the lot of gos that are older that create that could create some issues for them and get an ambulance on some those hes when they're far out in the Osprey would be a difficult task so uh simple things like water a Warning Systems uh a um a uh a golf person to go out there you know to move the players along faster would be you would a ranger would be uh small things right improving the experience yeah thank all about improving the experience any other questions or comments from the board thank you thank you very much thank you Bert young here Bob Young from North Falmouth and I am a former member of the committee uh been here a lot longer than 26 years though my entire life uh it's an exciting time for the golf course and I've been following everything that you folks have been dealing with ar of pce I have a few comments to add to what I've already sent from what I've submitted with my application you know know my background and qualifications I'm seeking a position on the golf advisory committee now after the recent request for proposals to operate the course receive no offers if appointed I can add input on a new RFP through the committee and advise Tom management within this regard during the past 20 years we have had a very very successful public private operation of the golf course and have met all debt obligations it's essential that this relationship continue it's a balancing act between the 10 and the operator we need to satisfy the annual Bond payment which is around 610,000 a year while the operator still wants to make a profit both of these have been accomplished so far during these 20 years now this marathon is continuing but we're we're getting kind of in the home stretch now we have 10 years to go to pay off the bond the Outlook is promising as golf is booming as a member of the golf advisory committee I would like to assist the town in developing a successful long-term Financial operation and also help establish long-term goals goals for the course um going on what needs to be done we took care of the watering system about 10 years ago with a dual system and that's great about a year ago we took care of the maintenance sheds those have been taken care of and they protecting the equipment right now a very serious issue is the basement area of the clubhouse where there's water damage and that needs to be taken care of between us and the and the operator who comes along uh and I could answer any questions the board has questions from the board Mr Mcall uh yes Mr Young I I remember you came before us uh when we were discussing the RFP uh back in in November and you had some concerns about the proc what the RFP uh uh was was contained and how we were going do you have any thoughts about you know what what might be a you know something we might want to think about as we go out to RFP again uh probably in April or thereabouts yes I do and uh satisfying the bond and we've been getting $400,000 each year as a base rent from the current operator and then since covid we've had tremendous amount of money probably two and a half million close to that including this year that is a revenue share so I would look at something that would have a base continuing with that $400,000 range and then a threshold that was fair and above that maybe 5050 share of the Surplus so the town would get well probably close to a million dollars if we continue what we have now and we'd get satisfying that Bond and go forward 10 years and the operator would then make a fair profit for himself there is a concern you know that that I think has been expressed is that uh you know C can we continue or can can those number of rounds continue and what what happens you know if if they start start dropping well I I don't think that's going to happen the Cape is a good destination for golfers and we've been averaging around 57,000 the last two years which is a nice number for 27 whole Outlet in the background that's looming as Cape Cod Country Club could go away I think it's going to be here next year but the proposal for a solar array out there is still probably going to happen and if that should occur F country club would be wouldn't be able to handle the influx of golfers but uh you can go I went up there the other day to play uh it was a sunny day and he said there wasn't a tea time until 1:30 in the afternoon so the the the people are there the numbers are there that's not going to go away we have an aging retired population in Falmouth as we all know and uh Falmouth Country Club is one of the affordable outlets for residents and guests thank you Mr Brown I guess Mr mcal already sort of touched on my question but um I do remember that you had commented before the RFP that maybe we were not asking enough for the revenue from the RFP and I'm wondering now if now that we weren't successful I'd like to see us maybe consider 10year time frame I think the 25 year is maybe too long there's too much unknown and I'm also thinking maybe we shouldn't ask for so much revenue have you thought more about that I think 25 years we tell me being voted we could go out that far but I think 10 years would be a nice round number to get us through this bonding once that's satisfied the town's going to be getting 6 800 n 100,000 a million a year for your town manager to use for things other than it's like paying off the mortgage on your house great I would like to see that base stay around 400 500,000 in an affair you can't you can't have an 8020 or a 7030 split that operator has got to get some too he's got a lot of expenses out there and equipment we have only been putting 50,000 a year into the capital out there so that's kind of a bare minimum so I would say 4 to $500,000 range for a base and then a little bit more of the revenue share 50/50 probably thank you any other questions or comments Miss Goldstone I'm going to borrow Doug's question um where do you see opportunities for improvement in addition to the the continued success that you're talking about uh improvements on the course the cart paths could be improved for sure there's a lot of lot of issues there as as far as playability we can be proud of our town golf course it is in top shape I'll tell you the greens are beautiful out there the fairways are nice and the superintendent a fellow named marai does a great job with his crew so as far as course improvements may maybe a little bit of Bunker work cart paths Clubhouse may be a little bit ahead of that as far as trying to generate more Revenue I I think we're kind of peing right now Revenue year this year is going to put with the with the uh base rent about a million dollars to the town any other questions or comments for this candidate okay M I'd make a motion to um to appoint uh Mr Young to a term uh to the golf advisory committee to a term ending June 30th 2026 second okay I have a motion and a second any further discussion amongst the board I'd just like to thank all of the applicants uh for their interest they're all well qualified uh I call upon them all to uh to stay involved this is going to be very important next six or eight months with respect to the golf course they were all Avid golfers and uh I think as as much public uh input and and involvement uh that that we can have will only make a better uh a better RFP and a better process but uh I certainly second Mr olinsky's motion to appoint Robert Young Young as at large representative for a term ending in June 2026 thank you any further discussion I I second his comments about the applicants and thank you all for reaching out agree I think it's um terrific when we've got uh this many folks vying for a a seat on on a committee and really appreciate also the uh diversity of of ideas for where our our Golf Course could go and and how we could make it better so thank you okay we have a motion in a second any further discussion amongst the board seeing none all those in favor I I unanimous thank you okay you we still have a few minutes so I will go through the consent agenda um and take it out of order because we cannot start the hearings until exactly 6:55 so I'm going to read through the consent agenda if any board member would like to hold an item please notify me as the chair licenses consider a vote to approve an application for a three special one-day all alcoholic beverage license BMA theater guill performance of Picasso at lapen agile at Highfield Hall 58 Highfield Drive Falmouth January 24th 5th 6th of 2025 January 31st February 1 and 2 February 7 and 8 service on Fridays and Saturdays from 6:30 to 10: p.m. Serv service on Sundays from 1:00 p.m. to 4:30 administrative orders consider to vote uh and accept a donation of a street clock from the DG aani family with our thanks I just have a question or two about how that roll out would you like to hold it Mr Brown yes please okay uh item number two consider to vote to accept a donation in the amount of $500 from the Roger and Kathy Marino Foundation to the Falmouth fire and rescue Department certainly with our thanks C consider to vote and accept a donation in the amount of $1,000 from Maryland and Harold March to the Falmouth fire and rescue Department again thank you consider to vote to approve a letter of support for the submittal of the open space and Recreation plan to the mass division of conservation Services consider to vote to approve the the 2025 seasonal population increase estimation form for submitt to the alcoholic beverages Control Commission considered to approve the 2025 liquor retail liquor licenses renewal certification for submitt to the alcoholic beverages Control Commission considered to vote to approve the design and installation of a dedication plaque for the former longtime Parks division employee Harry Hill Madam chair I'll move the consent agenda with the exception of Mr Brown's hold okay there is a motion to approve the consent agenda minus administrative order a we have a motion in a second any further discussion amongst the board seeing none all those in favor I let's go back Mr Brown to administrative orders a so just looking for a little clarification on how the process would roll out for the clock I noticed that uh in the form that we had in our packet there's several options for color uh the type of clock numbering and so forth and even the location I'm wondering how how will those be determined and who will will we see that again when it comes when it come back to us so Madam chair uh and select board member Brown we have a recommendation to utilize a matte black finish I believe it is to match closely resemble the existing uh uh lamps lamp posts in the downtown area along Main Street so that was one of the considerations um staff and I have been working with the uh the family's attorney and then uh the attorney was passing on some of the requests from the town and vice versa um but the in terms of the color um we tried to include I think it's in your packet there's a list of specifications and I think it was the town of Norwood I believe um it's going to be very similar in terms of the the numbering on the face of the clock as well as the color that matte black uh finish again to resemble the existing lamp posts uh location um in working with DPW in uh in park specifically Jeremiah Pearson we have a suggestion it's a proposal right now to place it um in Peg Nan Park um in close proximity to the existing sign there's actually an illustration in your packet that shows it um so that kind of addresses the portion of your question in regard regards to the location and then again those are those are recommendations based upon a number of factors most important ly access to existing uh utilities um in and in that specific location there was some consideration given about putting it um well on on uh Village Green or right in front of town Town Hall Square um the uh the layout is pretty pretty tight in front of town hall um so we kind of abandoned that proposal pretty quickly um but this is the the proposal that's on the table right now or the recommendation I should say for Peg newon Park um was uh was after some discussion among staff and then does the historic uh the historic commission weigh in at all on the elements they they would and I don't think Town planner is still here but that that will be um something that the uh the historical commission will have to weigh in um it's my understanding that uh when we're initially looking at Village grain that was going to be certainly something we'd have to pass through right but Main Street is historic right it it is it is so yeah I I that will be a path and Avenue that we're going to have to okay that's it for me thank you I release beh hold move approval on just following up just our appreciation to the djavani family for for for their offer I just you know knowing that that clock at TD Bank that never seems to work I mean is this a better design or a better system that you know that that you know it'll work and if it doesn't it can get fixed pretty quickly so that's a great question so I Madame chair and uh select board member Mcall so we we did some vetting of this clock um and I can't speak to uh the one you're referencing over at wer Court um but over by the bank but that is an example of a clock perhaps that lacks some kind of ongoing maintenance talk to DPW and and we we feel very confident that with some just routine maintenance and upkeep we can keep that that if it if the donation is accepted tonight keep the clock running thank you thank you Mr Brown did you make tion to I moved approval of admin ative order 2A consider a vote to accept a donation of a street clock from the DG DG oani family with thanks I'll second it okay we have a motion in a second any further discussion amongst the board seeing none all those in favor I okay we're going to get into our public hearings and our first hearing is a fee hearing and Jennifer Lincoln is here Mr zinsky for the notice please thank you madam chair as provid ided under chapter 119 of the code of Falmouth a public hearing will be held in the select board meeting room Falmouth town hall on Monday January 6th 2025 at 6:45 p.m. to establish and promate fees which are effective as of January 1st 2025 to be charged by Town departments and agencies except as provided by mgl school dep Department planning board Library town clerk Town Treasurer and collector of tax the proposed changes in fees are listed below welcome hello Jennifer Lincoln conservation administrator um we're proposing on um changing our fees um there are increases in the fees but I feel that they accurate accurately reflect the staff's time it takes to review a lot of our projects um comparing them to our old fees is apples and oranges because one of the reasons we're changing the fees is to bring the fees more in line with the state categories and activities which is request we've been hearing um for the past year or two from our local engineering department uh Comm Consulting Community um so this is a way to just kind of bring them in line with the fees so we are kind of again um charging the the the categories are the same as the state excuse me um also our advertising fee is really low so we do need to raise that um and again I just think they accurately reflect the time it's taking the staff to review the current projects do the research um for the old permits on the projects do the site visits compile the staff reports and we really are um striving to identify and work through all of the issues with the engineers and Consulting Community before it gets to the board so that saves on the number of continuances a homeowner has to go through um to to get the project approved we try to identify all that work through that look at revised plans from the engineers and try to get that again all um something that the staff can support when it comes to our hearings questions from the board on the the fees I don't have questions I I think it was well explained in the packet and I think they're moderate increases and sounds like it's something that's needed reviewing them appears reasonable Miss Goldstone yeah I guess um I I think the fees definitely appear reasonable um and uh just want to say also really appreciate the amount of work that you and your staff do in reviewing these and that the conservation commission does um it's an enormous amount of work I will just say having recently reviewed a number of the other Department's fee schedules I would love at some point to have a a conversation about um I guess how we set those fees and whether in this case it's to cover staff costs when we're doing um they're not exactly um apples to oranges fees but when we talk about things like beach permits it's not necessarily to cover staff time it's set um on a different basis and just thinking about how we set the fees whether it is with the expectation that every Department cover their Department's costs or um whether there's a a a different means for actually setting fees across town departments great point I I I will say when I first looked at it I and I know how hard Jennifer works and her staff and the Conservation Commission and how how many meetings they they they actually handle uh that I was you know it seemed like very high increases relative to what what they currently are but I appreciate your explanation as to where they where you're coming from and I'm in full support of of the increases any other comments from the board any public comment on this application okay seeing none I'll entertain a motion to close the hearing so move second okay I have a motion in a second to close the hearing any further discussion amongst the board seeing none all those in favor discussion amongst the board I will moove approval of the request for the fee changes and if there's a written motion I'll read it for you page 34 if you like motion to approve the conservation commission's proposed 2025 fee schedule as presented that's my motion thank you second chair okay I have a motion in a second any further discussion amongst the board seeing none all those in favor thank you very much thank you okay we're going to move on to our second uh public hearing Mr zinsky for the notice please thank you madam chair uh notice is hereby given under chapter 138 of the general laws as amended that Cravings pizza and ice cream LLC doing business as simply Divine Pizza company has applied for a transfer of all alcoh alcoholic beverage uh restaurant license located at 261 Main Street Unit A Falmouth Mass hereby on the above hearing uh on the above application will be held in the swack board meeting room fth town hall on Monday January 6 2024 6:45 p.m. uh comments may be may be sent to the uh to select board at Falmouth ma.gov per order of the select board thank you Mr zinski is there someone here for the applicant right up thank you questions from the board on this application Mr Brown uh just uh I had a couple of questions that I actually had answered by Town manager's office in advance of the meeting uh one was actually the uh location the manager's residence and whether or not that would be a barrier to management I understand you expect to attend full-time yes okay because with liquor it's important yeah could you just introduce yourself so sure yeah my name is Leo Lombardi um we're taking ownership my business partner and I are taking ownership of Simply Divine on Main Street um I do reside Boston to your question um but I plan to be here at minimum 40 hours a week okay okay that's all I was concerned about because yeah important other questions from the board about this application okay seeing none any comments from the public regarding this application okay seeing none I'll entertain a motion to close the hearing so move second okay I have a motion in a second to close the hearing any further discussion amongst the board seeing none all those in favor unanimous discussion amongst the board I remove approval with congratulations on taking over let me see if I can find the motion thank you I make a motion to approve the application for the transfer of an all alcoholic beverages restaurant license Cravings pizza and ice cream LLC doing business as simply Divine Pizza Co 261 Main Street Unit A as presented I'll second it okay I have a motion in a second second to approve any further discussion amongst the board seeing none all those in favor it's unanimous good luck okay we're going to move on to um our third public hearing and Mr zinsky for the notice please thank you madam chair notice is hereby given under chapter 140 section 183 Alpha of general laws as amended by chapter 299 of the acts of 1926 and amendments there too that Main Street Gallery located at 189 Main Street Mass has applied for a two for two one-day entertainment license licenses for open mic night events to be held at Main Street Gallery 189 Main Street on Thursday January 9th 2025 and Thursday January 23rd at 2025 from 5:30 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. a hearing on the above application will be held in the select board meeting room Falmouth Town Hall 59 Town Hall Square Falmouth Mass 02540 on Monday January 6 2025 at 6:45 p.m. comments may be sent to selectboard at Falmouth ma.gov per order of the select board thank you Mr zinsky and we have Mr Fox the applicant yes thank you Jim Fox from Main Street Gallery and real estate um we found out that uh there's a need for the open mic it had something been going on around town for a very years it once was in Woods Hole it's been on Main Street and a lot of musicians came to us and said we have no place to go so I have a gallery we don't serve food or anything we're basically closed at 5 or 6 o'clock at night so it's a beautiful place we run a lot of nonprofit events there I've had the Democratic party there I've had uh many fundraisers for noska and it's just a good beautiful room to use and they want to just have an open mic and we're going to have a band called The familiars they're going to start it off and manage it they're going to charge the money I'm just opening up the door and get allowing to use my space they're going to take a $5 donation it's really hard to get a band to play uh musicians like to make a couple hundred dollars to come out at night and if you have three or four people in a few hours that's a lot of money so it's it's really difficult to do so I'm going to let them keep all the funds and if it works these two nights I'm going to consider coming back and do it every other Thursday night for the next year I did run a big event this summer I had uh the Stage Door Canteen of 15 piece band play I got a permit here for in in my back uh parking lot we had about 20 artists I let them sell the art it was very successful and no problem so we have experience in running these events and I think it'd be great for the town and great for the musicians of the town to do it so it's uh we're going to start off these two every other Thursday night and if it works I'll be back really quickly to just have it continue on because I don't want to keep paying these fees if it if it goes on so we're going to do this for a test and then I'll be back in a couple weeks to it if it does without any problem just do it every other Thursday night or just keep it going for Thursday nights it's early too it's over like 8 8:30 9 o'clock it starts real early and it's over real early yeah it says 800m correct 8 P.M yeah okay questions from the board about the application Mr Mcall not not not a question necessarily but a thank you to Mr Fox and the Main Street Gallery uh you have stepped in on a number of occasions and offered your uh your very nice location for various groups and I think it's a a wonderful idea and I'm certainly prepared to make a motion and um go ahead and it's um I think you've been really creative with the use of that space for several different things so I I certainly I certainly applaud um it's appla idea beautiful space and has great Acoustics it was an old Bank building it's made out of concrete it's 15 feet high the sound is just great there's nothing like it on Main Street for music and sound it is really beautiful that's great any other questions or comments from the board any comments from the public regarding this application okay seeing none I will entertain a motion to close the hearing some move second okay I have a motion in a second to close the hearing any further discussion amongst the board seeing none all those in favor I discussion amongst the board I'd like to make a motion to approve the application for two one-day entertainment licenses Main Street Gall 189 Main Street open mike nights on Thursday January 9th 202 and Thursday January 23rd 2025 from 5:30 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. as presented second okay we have a motion and a second any further discussion amongst the board seeing none all those in favor I unanimous thank you very much have fun okay we're going to move into our fourth public hearing Mr zinsky for the notice please thank you madam chair notice is hereby given under mglc 138 and 19 Bravo 19 Charlie and 64 mglc 140 and 183 Alpha town of Falmouth alcoholic beverage regulation 16 and town of Falmouth entertainment regulation 13 as may be amended that the town of f select board will conduct a public Hearing in accordance with said sections to determine if there if there are violations of the license to sell alcohol or enter containment license issued to bad marth's Farmers Brewery LLC located at 876 East Falmouth Highway East Falmouth maass as a result of the hearing the select board May modify suspend or revoke the license to sell alcohol Andor the entertainment license the hearing will be held in the select board meeting room Falmouth town hall on Monday January 6 2025 at 6:45 p.m. licensing board Nancy Robbins Taylor Edwin P zalinsky II Douglas C Brown Robert P Mcall Heather MH Goldstone thank you Mr zunski for the notice do we I'll I'll send it over to Mr Rena but do we also have a representative for the applicant go ahead thank you madam chair I'll be brief as the applicants are making his way to the podium so over the course of the past several months the select Board office has received multiple complaints uh via email by residents of properties located in close proximity to bad Martha's Brewery LLC regarding loud and excessive noise uh often related to the exercise of bad marth's brewery's entertainment license and as select board may recall uh this particular entertainment license was most recently issued uh last month December 16th 2024 and a copy of that's attached Madam chair select board during a hearing on a request for an extension of the premises conducted before the select board back on July 1st of 2024 the the select board warned bad Martha's Brewery LLC the representative that attended that night concerning these loud and excessive noise complaints despite these warnings by the select board the board has continued to receive multiple complaints of possible violations of the conditions of the entertainment license specifically it has been alleged that bad Martha's Brewery hosted a party series 2024 which involved several outdoor disc jockeys and live performances during the month of October of 2024 and that those events created excessive noise that was heard by neighboring residents within their homes causing significant disruption for these neighbors Madame chair select board notices the notice of violation and hearing uh was issued to bad Martha's Brewery LLC back on December 19th and a copy of that notice of violation and hearing is included in your packet between December 8th and December 10th of 2024 the select Board office received three written complaints again via email uh those complaints are attached to the packet this evening from Neighbors of bad Martha's Brewery l again alleging that loud and excessive noise can regularly be heard emanating from both within the establishment as well as from the outdoor entertainment area Madame chair and board if the board determines based upon the information presented at the public hearing tonight the violations of bad Mar the brewery LLC entertainment license have occurred the select board as issuing authority has the option of suspending revoking or otherwise modifying the establishment's entertainment license and I'm going to ask the assistant Town manager to assist me we have again um one of the particular complaintants submitted some uh audio files that I want the select board to hear as part of this hearing and Peter if you could um read the um the date for each sure so the first one I'm going to play is from November 17th play again did you need it replayed what what is it I mean what what's what's the context of it so it's a video from across the street from the establishment and you hear the traffic noise and I don't know if you can hear it from where you are but you can make out the music in the background this is from a home a residen across the street in the 800 block is it inside the home or outside is that I believe it's out it appears to be outside from what I can see in the video from the audio it's a video and audio recording this that particular recording appears to be from the outside okay there's another one that you'll be hearing um dated I believe in August it's from inside so this next one is August 1st a so in that one you're hearing an individual's voice from The Establishment oh play it one more time is that a video also I believe the uh the complainant listed in the email uh that this was a trivia I understand and a trivia event and that's the that that's the background you hear the the the gentleman and the person announcing the trivia I'm going to ask the audience to please not be talking while we're trying to listen to these videos thank you this last one is from July 28th and the video shows a um a recording device just inside a screened window I think the speaker's on the bottom of that iPad this side no never fig it out [Applause] [Music] you can hear a little more of that on that one in that particular example as Peter mentioned there was a decibel meter some kind of a recording uh measurement device um and it was indicating I don't know Peter if you can read that um the reading so it's 50 to 65 DB 50 to 65 DB is what the meter is shown and that was from with inside a home inside inside the home with the screen open so it's an open essentially an open window and these these were outside at ad marth's these these sounds were emanating from an outside or or inside the premises so we don't know I I don't have knowledge of whether it was indoors or Outdoors yeah okay thank you could you introduce yourself please yeah good evening uh Joshua Flanders manager on record I have with me Ralph younger G I'm of the fam location and Mia benedetto who's the COO of the company and how do you want to address the complaints against you for your for the noise I mean I think we're here to listen to the board and and to our neighbors and you know if if we're in the wrong we're here to take responsibility and if if there are suggestions to move forward in a better way you know we're here to listen um I'd estimate we've had about 400 live music performances at the bre since we opened and I think the vast majority of those have been without issue um I I don't believe we've ever actually gotten a noise violation from like the police department a noise complaint um or had any other issues with the police station so I think we've tried and been successful in operating responsible business um but we're here to listen and and do what we can so yeah questions from the board just just a a response Madam chair um there is included in your packets there is one police report an incident report dated August 17th of 2024 at about uh 4:43 p.m. uh where an officer Patrol a patrol unit was sent over to the establishment um made contact with a representative the reports the incident reports in your packets and asked them to turn the music down the officer indicated they could hear the music um when they pulled into the parking lot and rolled their window down in their Cruiser so they could hear the the music from inside the establishment okay and then the the board has had the opportunity to review the emails as well questions or comments from the board I'm gon I'm gonna start with um Miss Goldstone and then and then Mr Mcall this is uh Mr MC's question but uh with regards to those um the videos and the the recordings that we just heard are you able to speak to whether those were indoor or outdoor um events i' I'd wager they're they're probably outdoor events most of our live music is outdoor because that's where our customers sit um a lot of time if we scheduled music indoors they wouldn't be playing to anyone uh we're definitely known for our outdoor seating and that's kind of the draw for people they're coming here in the summer during the great weather and um that's where they gravitate to um when I look at the actual license building must be insulated that all entertainment musical or otherwise will not be heard outside of the building hours 1 to 6 p.m. music at the buau is meant to be background music it should not be audible but easily spoken over with low amplification any live outdoor music will be concluded by 6 p.m. did we have any time on that music none of the none of the three audio recordings were past 6 p.m. they were all prior to thank you 6m okay Mr okay I'll go to Mr um missc and then over to Mr zinski to follow up on Mr Ren Shaw's statement the the police officer's report does says say upon my arrival I drove up with all of my windows in my cruiser up and could not hear the music until I was direct directly in front of the establishment so uh but I guess my my my question really is uh you're asking us I i' I'd rather turn the tables on you and ask you what do you think you can do to alleviate the problem it's a problem that that we have heard about uh that we've let you know you've heard yourself so so why don't you tell us or if you wouldn't mind tell us what you think you can do to make sure these don't continue or you know sure um you know I think the occasions where we have a DJ I think those are louder occasions we could definitely cut back on those or even possibly just not schedule a DJ um I think it's just the equipment they bring and it's more base forward I think that carries further um in most instances we've moved the musician so that they're facing away from the road and a few just the busier weekends where we have say a back-to-back performer they have on occasion played facing the road because they have to set up and break down at the same time so you have to have two different locations and we only have one location where they can be facing inward uh we could completely cut out that other location that we use so that they're never playing outward um I think those are both steps that we could take uh as you know we've already uh taken quite a few measures to try and cut back on this and and Ralph here will go around regularly and take deciel readings across the street and around the property um and he's never registered above that I think we've B large ly successful um it's just hard to have no sound whatsoever I mean sound carries open space I think you can hear on those recordings that the cars are actually significantly louder that are just crossing in the street than the music is so that just gives you an idea of you know if a car passing by sounds out loud on the recording that sound in general is is carrying and it's hard to eliminate to have it so your customers can hear it but your neighbor can't it's challenging um so in go ahead Mr zinsky I have a question for the Chief Operating Officer you would step up and your name Mia petto thank you how long have you been with the company ma'am this is going to be my sixth year managing for the Eder toown location all right so so you're familiar with the previous times that we' have addressed issues and listen to the things that we're going to be done to address these issues do you have documentation stating um I know we have documentation of the amount of times you've been here and we tried to adjust that do you have that on record at your where where you keep your records I do yes so you're aware yes I'm aware you have full context of what we're talking no exactly and I just wanted to you know if I'm here to to acknowledge and definitely deeply apologize for the disturbance that we've C caused not just for the town but for the neighbors that are right across the street and you know just be able to course correct and find a solution just to be able to move forward and have a great 2025 season thank you thank you in one of the um the written complaints it it claims that you have placed speakers outside the seating area is that correct um in most instances the musician will bring their own speaker I think actually in every instance this year um so in in terms of that they do they have a speaker with them when they're performing outside where is it placed is it outside of the seating area cuz that this is one of the complaints that came in that they could hear the music because the speakers were outside and they could hear the music with their windows closed and that was uh December 10th 2024 so generally they're placed at our fire pit area which is a seating area um it's a semicircle and that would face in towards the other seating areas so that's where the musician would be with the speaker Mr Brown I'd just like to make an observation I think that it was probably not the best plan to build the courtyard out on the street side and I've mentioned this at previous meetings when we've had these things come up and it's unfortunate because you've invested so much in your property and it's all out in the front I think the building acts as a an echo even if you turn the speakers toward the building it's still bouncing off it's a physical property I wish there was a way you could try to migrate toward the side if it had been set up in the back think how good it would be because you got all that Woods out there I just I think that's the long-term solution in the short term maybe you can put some type of angled partitions that will deflect the music in like a 45 degree angle rather than projecting off that flat wooden wall because a flat wood wall you know it's a really it's a it's a bounce back I think that's a big part of the problem we could definitely you know research see if there's a solution for putting some sort of sound barrier immediately behind to the sides of the musician um that's something we haven't tried and that's a step we could take and I will say that the Cape Cod Winery had to take those kind of measures they have a a little stage that is backed to the street and they put a little like a a band stage kind of a construction that they made it seems to have helped we haven't had any more complaints and I've been over there and I've been kind of questioning whether it might be too loud but apparently it's been okay because of that that structure that they made be happy to meet with them I just love to see some ideas because these people are you know these are not just they're not all getting together and writing the same letter they come at different times from different people and it's it seems genuine that it seems like there really is a problem and there is a problem yeah Miss Goldstone did you want to comment yeah I guess um you know I'm looking at the same language um that you quoted Madam chair um that music is meant to be back music um trivia night doesn't seem to to necessarily fit with that um live DJ you know like I'm I'm hearing from you kinds of events where it doesn't seem like the music is intended to be background music or the the amplification doesn't seem intended to to be background music so there seems to be a disconnect there and I um agree also um with what Mr Brown said that you wondering if there's a a barrier that could be placed so that you know we've already got that row of of trees there's already kind of a visual barrier there if there could be a physical barrier that could could stop some of that sound um from moving out toward um the street and and also for that matter wondering you know if you've got a musician carrying their own speaker and it's one speaker that one speaker to cover the whole area of bad Martha and all of your seating area obviously is going to have to be cranked up louder than if you had multiple speakers in those areas that could be at a lower volume so it seems like there could be some some uh physical mitigation to to still be able to have music have entertainment but have it be at a lower volume and much more contained than what it it currently is Mr zinsky that being said you know you look at it may it may look minor when you look into the file that there's only a few emails and there's only we have constituents thousands of constituents among all of us that when things like this happen we're inundated with phone calls or you're in the supermarket which is what we signed on for but they also have concerns those are the people that can when are you going to do something about them or other businesses that have held we've held their feet to the fire with exactly the same thing um asking us why are they any different than us so um when this gets opened I have a suggestion when this gets opened up for discussion but I just want you to know that it's not a small thing even though the documentation may represent that there's a human interaction that we all experience on situations like this a lot all day every day sometimes yeah we definitely understand that um I think there's another side of that coin and that you know we interact with a lot of our neighbors that really enjoy us as a business and enjoy the live music even um so I hear kind of that other side of the coin the people that are really benefiting and and kind of taking almost an opposite stance that but I understand your point for sure and you agree that this isn't our first rodeo together we've had this discussion previously a few times AB absolutely okay can Mr Brown Can we get a commitment to maybe hold off on the DJs and the loud Productions and and focus more on the background music until you get some kind of a a plan together to mitigate this absolutely yeah we'll look into the sound barriers um and we we'll see if we can come up with a good solution any other questions from the board any public comment on this application okay seeing none I will entertain a motion to close the hearing so moved second okay I have a motion in a second to close the hearing any further discussion amongst the board seeing none all those in favor I discussion amongst the board um I I would personally I would make a motion um and I'm not making this motion unless somebody rebuts it but uh I will if nobody does requiring bad moths to uh to design and install acoustic walls and barriers both inside and outside the establishment to eliminate uh the excessive noise as a start to be amended by my colleagues if so be so and and I would add to that that I would like um and I think it was Mr Mcall that put the onus back on the applicant which I completely agree with that I'd like to see the applicant come back with a plan to address these concerns um a real concrete plan about what they're going to do to keep this entertainment license going as is because I as Mr zinsky said this is not our first rodeo and I think you need to really hear us and not only say that you hear us but show us what you're going to be doing about it um so I I would take that and and consider you know I don't know I think we need to tune it up a little bit I mean I I feel like Mr zelinsky's motion is a little too specific uh I I think that we should put the onus on the applicant to develop a plan maybe consistent somewhat with what doug was talking about as far as what what needs to be done um but I I think I I don't know if we could hold this open and let them come back with a plan I don't know if we have to take action tonight or we could just continue it ask them to come back explore it as a as opposed to putting anything in place right now and then have to deal with it again maybe hear something concrete from the applicant and just hold off on a decision tonight M do we want oh go ahead I I was just gonna make a process suggestion so it sounds like the board you know wants action on this issue and along the lines of what Mr Mcall was suggesting maybe what you do tonight is find that there has been a violation of the license and direct the applicant to come back with Solutions and continue the hearing to a date certain so that the applicant can come back and say here are the things that we're proposing to do to mitigate the issue and what does their license look like during that time where they come back with a with a plan which I think should include some of what Mr zalinsky has suggested I think that could be written into their plan what happens Mr Johnson's job between now and then so license stays the same or do we or do we modify until that plan comes back yeah I I would think because you don't have a specific solution you would not change the license now the board can certainly consider a suspension of the license as a disciplinary matter in the interim um you know you could suspend the entertainment license for you know until the date of the next hearing for example so that would not shut the business down but their entertainment license could be suspended for that period of time I'm just off I'm not saying that's the right answer that's thing you might consider we do have a verbal commitment from the manager to reduce the you know eliminate the DJ which I think is probably a bad idea for having in that location anyway and uh I think that's a good suggestion to find that there is a violation because we do even though it's not really that impressive we do have these records and that would be a path forward to to get a resolution so you would just say that modify it so that they could not have DJs moving forward point I would go with the voluntary uh commitment from the manager rather than imposing a change in a license I'm hesitant to to take away their outdoor entertainment when it's a whole the whole place is built for outdoors and we've allowed it we've you know but we've also been here before and I I guess that's the only that's the only place I'm getting stuck Mr Brown to be perfectly honest is we've been here before and I I'm wondering if it's wise to just take the verbal this is what we'll do I I'm a little hesitant on that go ahead Miss Goldstone two questions and Madam chair may I I know we closed the hearing may I ask a question of the applicant can I reopen re re for that we'd have to reopen the hearing well question to uh Town manager assistant Town manager are we are we able to you know what you were recommending was um a finding of a violation and a request for a mitigation plan um can we impose a deadline on that because I think I'm I'm not comfortable with just a a verbal will do this and I'm not comfortable with no suspension and no deadline because that just leaves it too open-ended right so I think if we're if we're going to leave the license as is in the interim then I would like to see a a deadline by which we need to see a mitigation plan um and well in advance certainly of the the spring and summer season I think that's what Mr Johnson St was suggesting and I'm agreed with that I'm I'm hesitant to suspend their license at this point the reasons that Doug mentioned I mean it is part of their business plan I think if we find the violation which I think there adequate proof that there have been violations and uh and just you know hold off on any sanction until we see a mitigation plan a date certain whether it's the 27th which is our next meeting or sometime in February I imagine there's not going to be a whole lot of outdoor entertainment in January anyway so that's that's where I would be leaning with it with it and and I understand that I I'm just concerned that without taking some kind of action it just it it prolongs it um and I think that they have been in front of us before we have spoken about this before um and so I'm a little bit uncomfortable I love the idea of of a a deadline for the mitigation plan but to say we'll give you a deadline with the mitigation plan with nothing to say this is not okay the way you've conducted your business right now is not okay um so I think we need to have something that goes along with the deadline for the mitigation plan that's my own thought Mr BR the violation and continue to a date certain that is a deadline and the hearing is still in play right but the other piece it in my mind is not satisfied that that we have found a violation and all we're saying is we need a m mitigation plan by this date because that's when we're going to hold the hearing so I I'm a little uncomfortable with that all right so Madam chair um you may want to do something in the interim um my you know my thought was that implicitly you're continuing the hearing you found tonight you would potentially be finding a violation and then continuing the hearing so implicit is depending on what you hear back at that continued hearing at that point you could impose discipline and depending on what you hear it might be a suspension revocation alteration of the license all those all of those options outlined in the town manager's memo are open to you at the date of the continued hearing and no mentioned while that's taking place this still under the same rules that they are under now so if there were further violations or it's just going to compound our decision when you come back okay that makes sense okay right I was going to make that point I mean if somebody complains between now and the date certain then obviously that's going to you know have a big impact on what the ultimate decision is so can I just add my two sents please so you've already closed the hearing you'd have to open it again to be able to continue it okay I don't recommend doing that I think you should close the hearing keep the hearing closed and place you can um gain the accountability that you're looking for by placing a condition on the license as a result of the violation and the condition that you place on the license would would be for them to come back periodically to give you the updates so I I do have a concern about continuing the hearing where the only reason you're continuing it is to get more information about compliance when you're leaving this compliance part of it um in too much of an amorphous way what what is the compliance that you're asking for is it sound mitigation is it um you're just asking them to come up with some sort of plan to help with this but if you're if that's why you're want to continue the hearing it's really hard for them to comply they're just going to come up with something some sort of plan instead I recommend that you go ahead and close the hearing place a condition that says that they have to come back and talk to you and give you updates and so that they can give you hard progress about where they're going and what they're going to do and that way that just stays with the that stays attached to the license you don't have to R notice a hearing you don't have to publish it it's just part of they doing business in order to retain the entertainment license I would agree with you more if I may if this wasn't the third of fourth time that sometimes people just don't either want to get it or get it well we had the same situation down the street where we did almost exactly what we gave them every benefit of the doubt we told them what we wanted done they did it came back and then reported on it and we could we could document and prove progress as that went um I I don't want to leave this any more ambiguous than it already is because every time I come here I feel like it's Groundhog Day with the same with the same thing you know I I get what you're saying process-wise personally I'm tired of having this same discussion with the same set of excuses they know what we want from them and they know what they have to do to comply it shouldn't be this hard I don't think that it should be punitive but I think that there should be a date certain where they come back with some real solutions finally that's my opinion so it just the I I do have a concern about the process that you played out so I do hope you hear hear me on that part um something though that um I think you should take them up on as also another part of their condition is they said they do away with the DJ Knights I think you accept that offer and also make that a part of the condition but we could open the meeting uh we could reopen the the hearing and then then basically find the violation and continue the hearing in going forward for them to come come back with a plan right well we we don't need to she just explained if I could um she just explained we don't need to do that we can set conditions and say come please come back in 30 days and tell us what you're going to do and then tell us how long it's going to take and we can either say yes or no I'd agree with that I would too and it wouldn't just be a One-Shot deal correct it would be they would have thing maybe they'll say we can do this and we can do that and we'll say maybe that's okay or maybe we'll say oh could you just do a little more I don't know it's it's kind of subjective but I think they should have with could I ask do you think 30 days is adequate to come up with the plan we close I'm not sure we can ask that okay I think they've shown they they're will willing to be collaborative and and work with you they've come up with some ideas already and now is the opportunity to you know put put something on the on a calendar for 30 days have them come back okay all could we if I may go ahead if if that was part of our findings tonight to describe by all of us that they could make their reports to the town manager's office and then he could report as part of his reporting the progress that's being made in the event we don't get any more complaints or any more um uh triggering uh uh reports that would that would cause us more agitation for lack of better term you could also put as a condition on the entertain entertainment license um that what you've just outlined would be conditioned upon no further complaints and if there are complaints then it triggers another in-person appearance I like that go ahead update to me and certainly update to the town manager's Office to me implies that we're taking a passive role in just receiving those updates but what I've heard I think from from others on the board is a desire to actually see and approve a plan moving forward or have some kind of approval over what we're hearing from um from bad marthas so I guess that could be through direction of the Town manager who who reports to us get his report instruct him on what we want him to do and not have to reopen a case every because there's only a couple more times this is going to go down before something else happens that would simplify it because then they could maybe get an acoustic engineer or somebody was going to design something they could email that over to Diane and it with modifying that could be handled by I would also given the amount of back and forth and and uh what could be involved in generating a an Earnest mitigation plan maybe suggest every six weeks instead of every 30 days um 30 days seems like an awfully quick turnaround to come up with a significant sound mitigation plan and and being filing monthly updates or maybe the 30-day point they just say we've engaged this engineer and this designer and we have ideas we we don't we're not done yet but it's still progress I mean it doesn't it doesn't have to be completely constructed to be completed I see what you're saying just has to it's an update of what they've done continue to get a timeline of when it's going to happen and we don't really want it on our agenda every week so let me let me do this then and you guys can amend this or tear it apart because I'm done talking about this um to require bad Mars to design and install acoustic walls barriers both inside and outside to eliminate excessive noise come up with a plan and report to us every six weeks I'm not sure about the instructing them back to what to build it was a motion Doug if I don't get a second then you can do something with it but we can only throw this around for so long and convolute it even more I mean mean my my point is I agree with the second part of that motion as to what needs to what the goal is I'm just not sure that that including all of that specificity they've already agreed to it well something I mean I I just a plan to to you know whatever the second part of your motion was if you want to reread it for to eliminate ex excessive noise and report back to us every six week with the plan of their of their progress right and that's without so could we leave that without the specificity of the walls if you make the motion of what the plan's going to look like exactly that's that's my only point that they come back with you know with a plan to go ahead have sorry sorry I just want to make sure I understand come back to the select board or you want them to come back and report to me I'm fine with it coming back to to you and let us know what the process is or progress is I would agree with that however I also would think about um attorney O'Keefe mentioned conditioning the license yes moving forward I'd like to see that in the motion that the license is conditioned it was their idea to eliminate the DJs and let's see if that works it it it's been a proportion of the complaints and and uh the uh representative indicated that he believed that the DJ perhaps was associated with LLY complaints I would agree so conditioning the the license the uh representative uh offered to remove the the DJ so I think that would be a great step forward I agree and also um do we need to vote that we have found a violation two motions I think right we'll make a motion with respect to the violation get that taken care of and then craft the the motion to include all that we spoke about so I'll make a motion that the board finds that there has been a violation uh help me here um heads are slow I can get it hold on a second modification of the existing entertainment license I would I would suggest um a motion uh that uh to that there has been a violation of the entertainment license and licenses to sell alcohol issued to badm Martha's Brewery LLC was it just the entertainment license why does that why do we implicate the alcohol license so that was part of the notice in case this went poorly a violation of the entertainment license can also be a violation of the license to sell alcohol here where um where the lenses have have been so um willing to work with the board I would recommend only finding a violation of the entertainment license exactly y yes okay so do we have that so so making a motion that the select board find makes a determination that there has been a violation of the entertainment license on the uh complaints presented to it second I'll second motion and a second any further discussion amongst the board seeing none all those in favor I unanimous second motion you want me to try it or you going to try it go get it okay uh move to add a condition to bad Martha's entertainment license uh that they develop a plan for physical sound mitigation and modified programming to eliminate noise violations and provide updates on said plan to the town manager's office every six weeks I'll second and in the inter room and to remove DJ that was the modified programming okay I'll second manager okay does that sound like adequate language do that that sounds great more specificity okay so I have a motion do I have a second I second it I have a motion in a second any further discussion amongst the board seeing none all those in favor I unanimous thank you work cut out for you right thank you thank you okay we're going to move into business and we have an update on lead pipe assessment discussion on the timeline for next steps and we have our water superintendent Matt Lannon to lead us through this we don't have our was there anything there's not yet yeah just that what your pipe looks like and some numbers yeah thank you thank you got us moving do you want to wait till the full St report's back or no go ahead okay um so good evening our own Matthew Lon fouth water superintendent for those that know me um just over a year ago um when I started this position uh the EPA and the uh Mass D um was inquiring about having each Community have their own um Master list of all uh service line materials and in doing so since that time we've gone through just about 23,000 uh water service service um cards in ties and as builts to identify anything we had on record um so we can produce that list that list was due October 16th of 2024 um and since then um we've only captured about 7,000 uh water services from the water main to inside of the home um leading up to this was obviously Flint Michigan's uh issue with their poor water quality and their water system and um you know the Safe Drinking Water Act in 1974 um which was to remove all the lead out of the water system could I could you excuse me but could you explain when when you say what you've done with the 7,000 what what actually was it that you did I was I was getting to that yeah okay so well here let me explain this part so um from what everybody sees out in the go to the mic from what everybody sees uh when they walk down a street all they see is a little circle on the street and that is the shut offs for the water mains and for the curb stops to each property um they don't see anything 5 feet below the grade so it's really hard to conceptually understand what you're looking at when you're trying to explain people what um what your service material is made of so we have water mains that are um from the size of 2 inch up to 24 Ines in transmission mangers are huge our largest ones then we have our our corporation which Taps into the water main for each domestic and commercial property then we have a service line material which in this case is copper and then we have our curb stop shut off the curb stop shut off is the way we isolate from outside of the home if there's an emergency if there line freezes and above ground all you see is a little circle we put a key in the ground and that turns this to the off position so no water is flowing through the foundation of the home inside of the foundation line we have your service line with your meter where we actually register all the water you use and we submit you a bill each qu uh each semiannual or each season um what we're trying to identify specifically is this portion of the Water Service which was the town own side and this portion of the water services which is from the shut off valve to the meter we're looking for right here through the foundation what that material is when in 1899 when they started doing all these record drawings we only took down what the town owned which is this small portion from the water main to that shut off we only have 900 um out of 22 plus thousand that we don't have a record for the town portion of the water material however we do not have 14,000 of the service materials from the shut off through the foundation and it's very challenging because 30% of our community is gone through the winter time so in doing so um this past uh summer yeah we submitted um just over 13,000 uh surveys um to ask the community to submit um what their service line material was um to a basically an email that the town of Falmouth um created with our engineering firm Tater and Howard out of that we only got 700 responses um between the summer and the fall when the deadline was due um we still had 14,000 unknowns um out of the 14,000 unknowns we only had five identified lead service lines in the entire town um I think most of the lead that was used in the state of Massachusetts was mostly in the Greater Boston area there's there's very little lead on the cape out of those five we only have one home in the entire town we know that has lead and they're already going to remove that um come by the springtime so we'll have no lead left in the town that that we know of um we also have 13 galvanized water services um which are a little more complicated because they could be on the homeowner side and we haven't identified them yet um there's no funding from the the federal government yet for people to just go and renew their service lines and it's a 20 to you know $20,000 expense depending on the material in the ground and all these other um prerequisites but um right now with the service line for a while lead was used as a bending point from the water main to Bo to the water surface and that's where it turned into galvanized iron and the lead was used so when the frost heaves up and down the water surface doesn't break in the winter season and then all of a sudden we get that quick 60 degree day that's usually when we get the brakes um in our water services so um but anything Downstream of blad um it aderes to galvanized iron and they that's why they want galvanized iron removed as well um um can I ask you a question sure all the backflow prevention devices that are inside the foundations are any of those have Leed fittings in inside the foundation they shouldn't no no that's all mandated to have no no lead and Brass thank you thank you man um out of the 14,000 we don't know remaining are unknown your house could have been built in 2020 but we didn't have a record drawing from the curb stop right here into the home which automatically triggers that notification to that homeowner so so it's uh right now we're just basically identifying all of these uh Services we can through umang through our our website um we're going to start doing surveys soon and right now we've created a website with tat and Howard so bear with me so this is our interactive Gis for any uh service line material and you can type in your property address and it will tell you if you have a lead status unknown a non-led service a galvanized requiring replacement or you have a lead service um this is kind of it's very challenging to just do a survey so we decided that we're going to move forward and uh uh survey the the town with eight Villages so we're going to start with the woods tole village and we're going to submit a letter come the spring and uh those letters are right here if you guys want to pass them out for the future but you have two options all these homeowners and businesses are going to receive this letter they can either update the QR code take a picture of their water service coming through their Foundation right here and send it into our website we'll identify it if we can't identify it we're going to have t and how we're coming free of charge on their behalf to identify it to keep updating our our uh our inventory alternatively if they we have a home that uh has a crawl space um or um someone can't get down the steps because they're elderly um we're scheduling free iners surveys um through our public through our DPW Administration um and also through taten Howard come the springtime so um it's very involving we're hoping to have this all completed within eight years even though there's a 10-e deadline um we're also working with a Wastewater facility Wastewater division because they have a VOR um so we can isolate a small hole and sucko adjust right at the curb stop to identify both the town own side and the property side and take the whole service out now just to be clear if if we know the homeowner side and it's plastic but we don't have the identification material of the of the Town side that triggers the notification still so there's a lot of complexities to the to the issue but we're um we've been working diligently for the last year doing this and uh we're making great progress so if anyone has any questions I'd be more than happy to take them questions Mr Brown I think that the letters can cause confusion for people they do but they're uh you are not allowed to alter any of the forms that come from D you can only add additional things that say if you'd like to seek further questions please contact this person um most of the letters themselves that D drafts you can't touch them you can't even write don't be alarmed Conta us questions I wish I wish we got about a thousand phone calls in the first two weeks of this get this letter getting sent out yeah so but very few responses very few responses yes just phone calls yes right any other questions from the board go ahead I'm curious about the the low response rate do you have a sense of whether uh it was just kind of those thousand people called you they were really concerned they got their concerns delayed and then didn't bother to know complete the survey or is it more that like this is this is kind of difficult to figure out to go to your basement and figure out what the the material is and and how to correct I mean the the instructions that we submitted to everyone that that had an unknown service is is very clear um but the QR code we found is not successful with um certain uh uh age groups and obviously not everyone has a smartphone not everyone has internet access so trying to just click on a QR code to get you to a website we found it always doesn't benefit everybody so having the opportunity to call and say Hey listen I I I have a flip phone you know can someone come and serve it I put in an email to my Administration our Administration schedules coordinates with that person we come in and Survey the property but you know we have a$ 34,000 34,000 person population in the winter but 100,000 in the summer so you know it's it's challenging and not everybody necessarily has the same mailing address as the billing address and then we have people changing you know home ownership all the time so we're working with the assessor Department to try and get the updated Master list from our billing versus the people that are purchasing the homes and some people just don't care and throw it away like the bill they get so is there a like a required certification or demonstration of skill level to go out and and help a homeowner identify what their line is uh very minimal I mean I'm thinking literally like high schoolers are really good with QR codes could this be a summer job opportunity or something to have an army of young people surveying love our service yeah I mean the the trickiest part is like you know and where I where I grew up and and um this happened often um was people would show up at your door and say oh I'm a member of the fth you know water department two guys would show up one guy would go downstairs and pretend he was working in the me the other guy was robbing the house so we got to be very careful and you know and make sure that how we plan things like that having seasonal help it happens and it has happened so um down the road if we were to do that we'd probably have to you know advertise for an additional position and you know see if that will work but it's it's a very easy task to do if you can gain access to the to the basement home I was going to suggest volunteers but I guess that's probably tricky too right this what you just mentioned you're in people's homes one let anybody yeah and they they need to have some kind of identification badge to before they get in my house yeah baroid as I am not to paranoid anybody but um that's where we stand and um you know if you are ever to have any questions just push them off to my department and we'll be more than happy to help um any of the residents of the um the business is out okay thank you out any other questions or comments from the board great thank you so much for the update three seconds to spare what you three seconds to spare okay we know this this is, wor the brass I love that I think that's that's a great really cool that's a great prop you have there thank you to my department for making it do that so when your windows are broken and your car in the morning there you go it was Nancy okay not me I'll have my badge drawn um okay we're going to go to business number two consider a vote to sign a statement of interest to the Massachusetts school building authority regarding renovations to the Lawrence School authorizing the school superintendent to submit the S SOI now I I just want to preface this with a couple of comments firstly um Massachusetts school building authority is a competitive Grant which provides reimbursement of a minimum of 31% with potential for a higher rate of reimbursement based on factors related to demographics Energy Efficiency renovation and maintenance practices among other factors the vote that we take tonight does not commit the town or the school committee to filing an application for msba funds nor does it commit the town to funding the design construction of Renovations at the Lawrence School this vote does not represent an endorsement of any restructuring of FMA schools or a change in the use of the Lawrence School this vote is solely an endorsement of the school Department's plan to consider submitting a future application for Grant funds to renovate the Lawrence School I'm prefacing um your comments because this it's only about the statement of Interest we are not going to discuss anything else that the school is considering not considering and I just want to be very very clear that I'm going to limit conversation on this and I'm going to limit it to what is on the agenda for the select board to vote thank you could I clarify one thing too also before we get started I think the reason that this is before the select board is that the select board is the custodian of all town-owned buildings correct and that's why the school superintendent and the committee needs to come to the select board to get sort of an approval to do work on the property so I just wanted to kind of it's specifically a requirement of the school building it is mba's requirement to have a vote from this board to support the school committee moving forward with an application whether they do or not remains to be seen right but right now that is all that we are voting on Dr dor good evening thank you I'm Lori dur I'm the superintendent of I'm of public schools and I'm here with Paul Dart the Director of Finance and operations um we are here just to ask for uh support on submitting uh the um uh application to msba it just puts her name in the queue uh and allows us to continue um I on December uh 10th of 2024 the school committee voted unanimously to submit this uh application and then the second step is to come to you um through the process we've had strong uh community and educator support um for this application to start EXP exploring the renovation of of the Lauren School Paul yes um I Echo what the chair has already mention that this is literally a statement of support to submit an application uh it is points down the road that the board would be asked to vote yay or nay on on a actual renovation project any questions Miss Goldstone um so I I attended one of the uh the public sessions a couple of months ago um it was pretty clear from um both of yourselves and uh Lawrence principal Tom bushy that pretty much regardless of the use of that building that some sort of renovation uh is desired given the age of the building and it's a multi-year I think 8year process estimated from now till when that would be completed at what point in that how many years are we from having something that would if we do the statement of Interest now how many years are we from having more specifics of of design or or what that renovation would look like so the the application process with the msba would uh take place uh we submit by April 1st roughly uh they would make a decision in December thereafter we now need to make certain deliverables to the mspa which is our maintenance program our Academic Program projections of enrollment at that point uh after following that some time in 26 we then come to you for the first funding which would be around $2 million uh at that point that then hires The Architects the project manager and so on in the actual design uh phase starts to begin and then you can see that progress develop over time several years later 28 you're going to be um you know as we progress here the time would be taking a vote on the project project the full project dollar cost uh and then and you know following that and uh the construction would begin um well the final architectural designs would begin and then uh construction would be two years that would take us to 2032 so uh so those are the two votes that I mentioned would be 26 and then 28 I'm going to go with uh m Mr mcal and then Mr Brown uh assuming the vote tonight is to sign the SOI what happens next what do you do next what what's going to happen so we we you know the applications forms uh the statement of Interest questionnaire has been released just recently by the uh msba we fill out that we do a a building assessment uh We've hired Habib and Associates to look at the building from everything from the plant uh the plumbing which is the original Plumbing from 1953 the electrical wiring of the building Again original from 1953 all the uh the components of the building will be assessed by them roof structures Etc then they go on to assess the classroom components so they'll look at the average classroom size does it meet current Teaching Standards and minimal uh requir ments of the msba and so on so they will tell you they will make the case eventually to the msba here are the reasons why this building should be renovated there was a question that came up in an email that we received about the difference between the msba digging into the Lawrence School and Mr Renshaw's looking at all public buildings um I just want to be really clear that when you're and correct me if I'm wrong the the assessment that you'll be having done on all the public building buildings is not the same as what msba will be doing and what that is going to look like that is far more detailed they get right into everything in that building and it's different from what you're doing correct that is correct okay I just want to make that comment there it's like apples and oranges so so just a followup so so what you're looking for from the board is agreement on the SOI so that you can proceed to the next step that's right and if we don't do it now uh and you wouldn't start the assessment that's well I mean is is am I correct yeah that's correct and let me just say I just the msba looks for community support for so of the vote of the school committee the vote of the select board and so that's part of the signal that we give them in submitting an SOI so you know the criteria for uh applying for uh building renovation is the age of the building which case we're 1953 the average project that more recently been uh funded by the MSA msba has been in the 1970s so that's a plus in our category the next criteria is has the msba funded recently a project for the district in in our case they have not not for core renovation so that too is in our favor then the next little criteria would be what's the community support what's the vote of the select board what's the vote of the school committee and so on so I mean from where I'm coming from I mean it it seems like a no-brainer that that we proceed that being said uh you know there's obviously been a lot of discussion about navigating the future and I understand what you're I what you're saying but but from my perspective this is the first time that it's really come to the select board for any decision or any action uh and we have gotten some emails uh some of them on point and and some of them admittedly not on point so so my my initial reaction was uh okay this is probably something that we should be looking at do we need to do it tonight or do we have an opportunity to reflect on some of the emails that we received over the past couple of days before we decide whether or not to to to to go forward that's where I'm coming I think this basically gets the district's name in the queue and I think to kick it down two more weeks is going to interrupt the timeline for the district so I I while I hear what you're saying I think that the statement of interest is about renov ating Lawrence and and and allowing the district to put their names in the queue just put that question actually to to Dr dur and Mr D in in terms of timeline is there a deadline for submitting the statement of interest and is it is this one of those once a year submission sort if you the the hard deadline for them is April 12th we set an internal deadline of March 31st that you see on the uh on the vote for but the hard deadline is April 12th if you miss that then you're waiting another year I mean I guess my what I'm thinking is I mean I hear you in terms of taking a little bit more time to contemplate it I'm not sure how much more information we would have in two weeks to consider this in two weeks and so the question in my mind comes down to is it this year or next year right like do and where you are on in line when you request how long will it take just one more question how long will it take for you to put everything together to to to meet that March deadline it's very extensive the application ex itself is very extensive and the study that goes along the engineering study that goes along with it is very extensive so so they've they've established that they need two months to get this together so that I do also want to just State um if if there's no guarantee that we might get accepted in the first round um often it depends on the number of applications yes as Paul said we have a strong um uh as we're trying to to state why Lawrence needs renovation I think it's strong but we also don't know how many other applications there'll be this could be we may be reapplying uh for a year two years three years before we might even get accepted so the longer we wait to put in and get in the queue so they know that we're interested just puts us down the road um you know this just s to me this first year signals that we're interested maybe we'll get accepted maybe we won't but at least it gets us in and they know that um the fouth is interested in this so you think two months is what you need two months for khabib to to do the assessment yes and so we Mr Brown I have a question about the the process of working with the msba and say the uh you we've got an idea that the cost might be 135 million I guess right now but that's just a a ballpark right that's very we I know it's way too early to to say too early but is there some sort of a commitment if we get do we get funds from them for the survey as well is that the initial or do we have to pay for that not for the initial work that would not for the building assessment that we're doing right now so we pay out of pocket for we pay out of pocket for that okay the funding that uh the $2 million funding that we would come to would help pay for the uh own as project manager and the architect uh once we're accepted into the project that's where they come in and start to help with that cost okay but not at this stage and so I'm curious about when we when does a commitment come along do we know the price tag of the renovation before we commit or do we are we entering a process where we're committing to a project and we don't really know the cost is that is that a possible scenario iio not at this stage that we the you won't be able to to get the sort of the hard estimates until the Architects are are formally hired to start the design of the project and that's out of our pockets that well the $2 million that I mentioned part of that will be paid by the msba it's part of their whole program and the rest is part of the town but then you go through sort of the initial schematic design of the building during that time during that time the cost development of the building of the renovation will be uh become clearer but it's it's not right now when so I guess what I'm trying to get at is do we get a handle on what this budget is going to be before we commit or are we committing to a process that locks Us in I'm just curious of this stage you just no not this stage not this stage right what we're leading to I'm just trying to understand the process a little bit we have a if if if I'm I think if I understand you we're we won't know if we if we get into the program and we come back for that the two million and ask for that I don't know that we would have a number at that point I think that's what that assessment will tell us it would be after that stage that we would actually know what a renovation would cost and if it's too much we can say we're going to hold off absolutely there's lots of there's lots of entry points to you know to say no it's it's too much we can't we can't move forward the school can always back out of their submission so right now it's just simply supporting whether we want to sign a statement of interest to let them at least have msba look at them and see if they get them in the queue yeah I understand that what we're doing today I just wanted to understand the process a little more I get it it's money yeah um Mr Kirk where are you would you like to speak you had asked if you could speak hi my name is Paul Kirk um I will keep everything very limited to the scope um I understand that this letter doesn't lock us into anything and there's really no risk um but I just feel like I couldn't come here without really re um stating my apprehension um not not necessarily with the project but the current leadership of the project and the current leadership of our school system going into this so um again tonight may not be a thing that's worth putting off but I just feel like I need to express my concern over moving forward based on how everything else is gone thank you thank you Mr Kirk would anyone else like to make a comment before I close it and bring it back to the board ask question you may come up here and ask a question just say your name uh Raquel Russell Hi um I just have a question regarding the funding for the building assessment that's going to be required to go along with the statement of interest and how those funds were procured like who's paying for the Mr dot stated at the school committee meeting that this this assessment will cost $132,000 so I just like to know how that money was procured thank you and I would ask Mr Dart to address that question um last year in April I believe it was April the town uh voted uh half million to do as part of that building assessments for townwide buildings uh $132,000 of that fund will be used for this uh building assessment so it's part of the Town Fund okay I see Mr Johnson St and Mr R Shaw yes we we discussed that with Mr Dart okay uh and using that those article funds the uh the project all of the school buildings were always going to be a focus of that more General uh building evaluation comprehensive building evaluation um but we discussed the use of 132,000 of that 500,000 as Mr Dart indicated is uh is applicable and and eligible for you so yes 132,000 of that 500 is going to be applied towards this uh firm who has who specializes in these more in-depth obviously evaluations more much more in depth than what uh brightley the company that we retained is going to do for all of the Town buildings so mayor is it is it fair to say that when you came up with your $500,000 uh budget if you will you expected that there would be a significant part of that would go towards the Lawrence School I don't so honestly Madam chair and select board member Mcall at that time as we were preparing that article um we wanted to make sure we had done some initial uh had some initial discussions with firms there's a handful that do the general comprehensive building condition index studies that 500,000 was based on some of the quotes that we received at that time we didn't really contemplate I don't think that time about Lawrence School specifically so no I don't think that that the 500,000 was based actually on uh some some uh quotes and proposals discussions that we had with other vendors but but it did anticipate the schools and the and the it always did that comprehensive building condition index study always was going to include the school the issue is it just never was going to go into the detail that the msba requires thank you and it goes back to um oh I'm sorry it just goes back to Mr Brown's point about schools being Town buildings right that were on the list I'm G I'll go to you and then come back okay okay yeah I just wanted to add on to what the town manager said um everything he said was was correct obviously um after we came up with that initial conservative $500,000 estimate we did then refine the quotes that we got back and found that we could do everything that we plann to do and the 132,000 for the Lawrence School within that 500,000 so I just want to clarify we're not eliminating any of the planned scope in order to accommodate this that was kind of where I was going that's very excellent point of clar chair will you entertain a motion thank you got it I'll make a motion to approve the statement of Interest as presented second okay I have a motion and a second any further discussion amongst the board seeing none all those in favor I unanimous thank you okay we're going to move on to business number three update discussion concerning the establishment of a licensing commission and I'm going to send that over to attorney o'keef okay okay no that's what I don't need okay um good evening Mario Keef Town Council I am here to provide you with an update on where we are on perhaps establishing a licensing commission so um in your packet you have two items for me one is a draft home rule petition and this is just a draft it is a work in progress because I need more information from you um you also have in the packet a chart with examples from other towns that have created licensing commissions specifically towns and not cities um as you'll see from the chart there are three towns ammer North attelboro and Province Town that all have a licensing commission that was established by Charter um I'm also wanted to show you this I was trying to find some sort of information for you to put this in context about cities versus towns and the volume of licenses that cities versus towns um process and why um licensing commissions are mostly established by cities and there are only a handful of towns that do it um it really there is a Nexus with volume and Falmouth is a really interesting place because uh the town is accepted from the uh quota system that almost every Community is subject to it's tied to population but in Falmouth here um we have a special act that allows the town to issue as many licenses as it deems fit for the public good and that means that we have a lot of licenses here so that um the Falmouth has a disproportionate number of licenses um that it issues and what I want to show point out with this map is um that some of the information is a little out of date and this was created in 2018 and some of it is incomplete but I do think that it um conveys an overall message and what I want to point out here is that the orange Hughes um have more licenses so you look down here um the darker orange almost red you find in Boston and Springfield and Worcester and then it grades lower um Falmouth is in this um it's in a light orange so Falmouth issues has about a hundred is licenses that it issues right now and um if you look across all of the orange shoes um they're all cities and um the only towns here that are orange e are Brookline Amherst I'm sorry Brookline um Barnstable is not a town it's a city that goes by the town um the only other one that you're going to find here is Brook line it has a population of 63,000 and Plymouth which is also a town with a population of 61,000 but Falmouth is also up there it processes a lot of licenses and most of the licenses that you see on this map are processed by separate licensing commissions almost all of them in the orange with the exception of Plymouth and town and and Brookline have licensing commissions separate and apart from from their legislative body um I just wanted to point that out here for you because this is in line with what the um Charter Charter review commissions have been saying that um here in this town it's simply a lot of work and maybe something that the select board doesn't need on their plate so um what I'm looking for from you now is I just want to point out some of the characteristics of um what is being proposed here in the home rule petition um the home rule petition has the following features the commission is is proposed to be a five member board these are all things that we talked about the last time I was before you um the members serve for three-year terms they are appointed by the select board and the proposed licensing commission would have the power to issue the following licenses common victuals all alcohol LIC lies including retail restaurant club one-day licenses for example entertainment licenses inh holders lodging houses fortune tellers I don't know how many of those are out there in this town but um they do require a license Ed car dealers second hand dealers pool tables Billiards bowling alleys flammable storage facilities aquaculture dock licenses and special event permits I don't know that all of those need to be moved in to the jurisdiction of the licensing commission if you decide to to go this route um I might recommend that you this board retain aquaculture and the dock licenses those are kind of unique features that don't really fit in with the regular um jurisdiction of a licensing commission and in fact um uh the um aquaculture licenses are are things that are usually retained by select board doc licenses are unique to fouth in that they are um zoning they're part of the zoning scheme um under the home rule petition I'm just going to point out two other things under this home rule petition the licensing commission would also have the power to establish rules and regulations and impose conditions and restrictions and it would have the ability to enforce um the laws and regulations concerning any license within its jurisdiction so um today I'm just looking for some feedback and it's on two points the first is do you want to pursue this and then the second is what's the delineation what licenses do you want to retain and what do you want to move to the commission if you decide to pursue it do go ahead would roadways and public lands remain under our I mean would that be one we consider to keep under the select board because it's a kind of a different thing too like sometimes people have encroachments on the roadway give them a license for a stone wall that was built by accident or whatever that's an excellent question those are a very different kind of license because it involves um the use of of town property by someone else for their own private use I don't classify that I don't put that in the same kind of of classification as these licenses where you're allowing someone to do a business the select board would retain jurisdiction over Grant of the grant of a license to have someone keep their fence in their front yard for example okay do any of the cities um just have under their jurisdiction um just the liquor licenses under a Liquor Commission or licensing commission um so from experience with my uh prior life in Newton Newton's licensing commission just did alcohol and CVS and entertainment okay that was my question and that was something that um you could absolutely do start you know you in it this doesn't have to be set in stone you could just move the alcohol licenses and the CVS and then keep everything else it there's when you're doing a special act like this there's a lot of room for and it could be malleable and just for the people at home CV is common victual Resturant thank you I that's certainly something that I would consider personally is those two licenses going somewhere other than here but go ahead Mr Mall uh at at the last meeting I asked you about appeals and and you said that the the appeal would be to the superior court if we went with a licensing commission such as this is there a way for the select board within the ACT to retain the ability to handle appeals rather than have the applicant need to go to the superior court and incur large EXP expense in that situation um so there's there's actually a a a middle tier already any any decision of the local licensing commission gets appealed to the abcc first the state regulatory Authority Li I mean you're you're just talking liquor right yes I am just talking liquor and um I'm thinking of other other licenses well so I I think that you could so part of the part of the draw with the special Act is that you're asking the legislature to create an exception to to go outside what the statute says um I don't know that there's a way to take away appell at rights to an extent where you you are prohibiting someone from going into Superior Court well we could offer the opportunity I mean Poss they they they I mean I'm not saying they can't go to the superior court but if there if there was a way to allow the select board to hear appeals if someone wanted to appeal in the first instance to the select Bo with having to go without having to go through the whole process of a superior court complaint maybe okay adding just asking the question and I I just I want to make sure that I understand so you'd be adding adding an appall layer because they would always have to go to the abcc you'd be adding so you could appeal a decision of the licensing commission to the select board and then to the abcc and then to the or if it was an entertainment or a lodging license I mean somehow the select board retained the ability to you know reverse what what what was done by the licensing commission before the applicant would have to get Cod of Superior Court then I I think you could um this is a regulatory board it is very similar to the zba and to the planning board when they act in their quasi judicial role um those decisions specifically do not get kicked back to the select board for for specific reasons you imbue the members of a regulatory board with the power to make these quasi judicial decisions um inserting the select board back into the process dampens that Authority um it also sort of negates the whole purpose of doing this in the first place so because now you're just reinserting yourself into a process that we're trying to get you away from I'm imagining there's not going to be that many appeals I mean uh so I don't see it as as really reinserting Us in any major Pro process this the second question is with respect to like rules and regulations we we could uh frame it such that those rules and regulations would be recommended to the select board and the select board actually adopt them would we have to give the licensing commission the ability to make their own rules and regulations or is it something we can somehow control I'd like to see it if there's still a desire to be involved in licensing to have them be subject to approval of the select board instead um again for the same reason you know creating regulations is a Time intensive um process uh it requires its own hearing its own you know it took it took us two years to do the entertainment regulations um it's uh if you're going to create a licensing board you should also give them the power to regulate themselves um the key here also is another aspect that we talked about was that um you'd be able to appoint people who had a deeper level of understanding about the industry so you'd have people who were would be able to create regulations that actually had their finger on the pulse and nothing against your expertise but no I hear you I'm going to go to miss Goldstone and then back to Mr Brown yes so I have have two kind of related questions um quick question um uh to you Mara Hawker Peddler right I'm still looking at that what is that and why why would that be one of the two that you would recommend and because you recommended holding aquaculture actually docks and Hawker Peddler as yeah I'm still trying to unravel that Hawker Peddler is one of these um licens es it's it's an incredibly Arcane license and there bunch of moving pieces and parts with them it's under a different section of the statute so it's under chapter 101 and right now um there's part of the license that that's issued by the state because it has a separate component there and then the police chief actually offer um issues the other part of the license here in Falmouth I can't figure out why it is that way because the the statute actually says that the select board is supposed to be issuing those so I'm still doing research on that um it it's very diff it's a very different license from these alcohol and entertainment and CV licenses so it very easily sort of Blends itself to being carved out to retain to stay wherever the jurisdiction is here in Falmouth I I'm still confused by it okay M Mr Brown oh did you have another another sorry another question to fellow board members I guess in thinking about which licenses we might retain and which ones we would um delegate to a a licensing commission I mean I'm curious why delegate alcohol and common viter and keep things like entertainment in holder car dealerships I mean is it just because of volume or I mean all of car dealerships in holders these all feel like things where we have zoning to dictate whether that's an appropriate business or use of a portion of land and so then it's a a business license um to me the one that would stand out as maybe something we would want to keep would be more like um special events where we're actually thinking about how do we want to use our space um in ways it ways that are are not really like covered by zoning does that make sense um okay go ahead Mr zsky this is all liquid anyway I mean pardon the pun I mean it's all amendable as we go you wouldn't want to do you wouldn't want to do a full-blown roll out you'd want to do a te a test pattern on a few of them and then amend to that correct or is that available you could do that I mean with when you're talking about amending the charter you have to ask permission from the state legislature so we could do a partial roll out and have it just be alcohol entertainment and CVS which all go very well together and then go back once successful and say oh we want to add these things and the state says no they could do that I don't know you know you're just putting your hands on someone else so the more concrete we can be the the first shot the better um but we're also I'm also toying with trying to figure out if because I I knew this question was going to come up um by me no I mean I never know what you're going to ask me could be anything but I'm also toying with the idea of maybe adding a provision in the home rule petition that says um something along the lines of setting out these licenses that would be moved to the licensing commission and then have it say and any other licenses um established by bylaw so that as directed by select board right why let go let go because I I think there is this I do think did you have a question I do yes waiting patiently so um we're doing this in order to make the select more available for policy and other important business but we're now we're going to be creating another whole uh open meeting group you know because it's in the interest of the public it's going to have to be televised and minutes and now the town manager's office is going to be busy with another entity and they might be starting to get too busy for us are we going to have to hire a second assistant Town manager or some other department staff to manage new entity well um the work the administ ministrative work it won't won't increase the administrative work will is going to get done the with the same amount I mean there aren't going to be more licenses just because you created a new licensing commission the only thing that's going to change is it won't be on your agenda but it'll be another meeting to be managed another another seven minutes it'll actually streamline it though I mean because that's all they' be doing right the real work will be I'll probably have to go to their meetings for the first year to make sure that they're doing it right which I'm happy to do um but that it will require some some ramp up training for them to know how to be a commission go ahead Mr mall so it it seems like more you have some questions we have you know some some some questions as well uh and the recommendation where the request from the town manager was that we give you Direction so that you could get this on the April warrant what what's what's the time frame for for that because I think there's you know I don't know what kind of Direction you're looking for but I've got some questions and I think even Council has some questions so what so the time where do we go from here so January 27th um is our is our Target right that's when we come to you to to to to vote so I mean I don't think we're I mean there's no action to be taken tonight right there's no action to be taken and I'll add one other um thing that will maybe help you with that decision um I'm not asking for um the actual petition to be approved on January 27th or 26th whatever it was that you said um just whatever would go on the warrant would be to authorize the select board to submit the petition and then we could continue to work on whatever the home rule petition is and submit it at our Leisure and that vote doesn't go stale that means that we could continue to work on it for a year we could continue to work on it for six months we could figure it out and take our time doing that but I would like to get just a town meeting vote authorizing the select board to submit it and that would be the whole sum of the the warrant article you don't have to submit it that could be an option if at some point you know six months from now you decide that it's not good enough and you don't want to do it and you just want to cont you want to retain all of the ability to issue the licenses then we just don't submit the home r petition and our Charter Review Committee has recommended this twice I I was just going to say more than once um and I think I think we owe them um and I've said this for a while we owe them the respect to look at it and consider it really carefully whether we submitt it or not um but I think that's important they did a lot of work around this and they have recommended it twice certainly okay with some I'd be I'd be okay with the uh liquor the entertainment and the common victual or I would as well I would like to retain the other I would as well there's no action tonight we're not really discussing that she's she's looking for feack but she is look yeah she is looking for feedback and and I I would agree with Mr Brown um we don't have to vote we can move this um on to the 27th to decide if we want to create a Warren article and go from there any Warren article would be What mo was saying which is to authorize the submission of a petition and without talking about which licenses or anything no just to just to submit it okay is there anybody that thinks it's a bad idea I think it's an idea that we need to in my own opinion a little more discussion and feedback from from Council as well so I mean that's I'm just trying to solicit feedback that she's asking for yeah and I'm not sure in terms of putting a a warrant article together we need more feedback it's simply asks that's what I mean I'm fine with that and it will be fine on the 27th as far as the ual petition and what it looks like what it contains AG whether it's includes liquor you know all these other things that's something that we can develop and and talk about and and we have forever to do that because I think you said that it the vote doesn't go stale doesn't go stale so okay I like that all right thank you thank you very much for for all the work on that okay we're going to move on to business number four consider a vote to approve an application for a class 2 used car dealer license hickey Autos Inc DBA EXE itive Auto 118 East Falmouth Highway East Falmouth one of those licenses is someone here to represent the applicant or Mr Rena do you want to take this one not I I will certainly take it I'm not sure if the applicant I see anyone so so as a summary um hickey Autos doing business as Executive Auto missed the deadline uh to apply to make the December 16th renewal of their license their current license expires expired December 31st of 2024 on December 24th of 2024 the business was notified by mail uh through the select Board office and a copy of that notice is attached of the fact that its license would in fact expire on December 31st 2024 and that sales of automobiles prior to the issuance of a new license would constitute operating without a license and in violation of mgl chapter 140 uh Town Council um I believe assisted um uh the front office uh with the generation creation of that letter that was sent out um Madam chair both the fouth police department and the fouth fire rescue Department have reviewed the application and as you can see in your packet have indicated they have no objections to the issuance of the license just wanted to point out that the reason we're here tonight in hearing this is that the business in effect missed their renewal deadline to make the December 16th meeting they had to reapply for a new license basically initiate that process all over again okay M chair yes after reviewing I after reviewing uh the packet um I obtained some information on they're under a special permit issued in 1996 and then amended in 2001 which grants them license to display 16 vehicles with some other some other um findings and conditions which I rolled through there tonight um I'm going to be asking my fellow board members to continue this till they can check this out there there was an excess of 60 vehicles in the in the property at least 50 of them unregistered but I was going to say is not only has he the applicant missed the deadline he's also missed the opportunity to come before this board and explain his situation so I I I agree with you I think at the very least I mean I don't necessarily want deny it but I would certainly continue it and you know have the town manager's office reach out to Mr hickey or whoever the owner is and tell him he should be here on the 27th I agree with you but I would I would I would urge that the town manager instruct his code enforcement somebody that can interpret that special permit and do the research on it to make sure he's in compliance because there's quite a few after reading through it um that is is going to have to be addressed before we can make a decision and I promise you that and I I would agree with um Mr zuny and Mr Mcall that we tabled this and we bring it back before us at another time I agree thank you yep okay we're going to move on um number business number five consider a vote to approve sending a letter to Mass DOT requesting the department relocate and make ADA Compliant the existing pedestrian crossrock Route 28 old do road as recommended in the 2023 safety audit anything you want to add Mr yes a couple of things Madam chair um as we all know Mass doot doeses uh wonderful work with these uh Road Safety audits uh back in April of 2023 the mass do conducted one of these rsas or road safety audits between old doc Road and Chapo Road um report from that road safety audit was issued in July of 2023 that identified several High safety payoff improvements along this particular segment of Road Madam chair select board one of the most impactful and important improvements as recommended by the mass Do's RSA road safety audit of 2023 uh involves making improvements at the existing crosswalk from old Dock Road to the mouth of the entrance to the West fouth Market specifically uh the Mass DOT road safety audit recommended considering relocating this specific existing crosswalk across route 28a at old do road to an area that has greater visibility and fewer accessibility and vehicle encroachment concerns um they indicated there was a high safety payoff if this Improvement were made a midterm time frame a high cost um and again um based upon the report recommendation was page 19 of a a I think close to 100 page report the second recommendation or observation uh related to this particular crosswalk was that it was to bring the recommendation was to bring all all crosswalks to Americans with Disability Act compliance including the use of high visibility markings and the installation of curb ramps um again specific to this existing crosswalk making those improvements um again the report uh indicated a high safety payoff a high return in other words midterm time frame a high cost and lastly uh this part of the recommendation uh looking at this specific crosswalk um was to evaluate the inst ation of a rapid rectangular flashing Beacon system at the crosswalk at Route 28a sorry there's a typo in your report 28a at Old Dock Road um the Quaker Meeting House and the fire station and again is to the other recommendations or observations as part of this road safety audit um the mass do um indicated if this Improvement of installing this rapid flashing Beacon were done they considered there would be a high safety payoff a midterm time frame and again a high cost Madam chair select board the West Fel Village Association is requesting and they've reached out to a select Board office on a couple of occasions they're requesting the select board uh D working with my office draft and submit a letter to Mast doot stating that immediate action should be taken to install an ADA Compliant crosswalk in a location north of the West fouth Market driveway and that the crosswalk be accompanied by a pedestrian operated blinking light making it abundantly clear to drivers when pass pedestrians are crossing the road so Madam chair in select board my my recommendation is that select board direct my office to work with uh Town engineer in DPW to draft and submit a letter to mass Do's District 5 office stating again that immediate action should be taken to install these improvements at this specific existing crosswalk for me this is a no-brainer to bring it up to ADA compliance so I'm going to move the motion that you just read second just a question go ahead so so the the the current crosswalk would be eliminated would be relocated relocated not relocated and you know north of you know old do road is you know a rather large area we're talking about not a very long not not a large distance but moving it further towards the entrance to the West fouth Market is that kind of what the suggestion is or I believe that's area where we talking about yes and again again so it's like maybe 20 ft or 30 ft to an area that the engineers would determine to have greater visibility and fewer accessibility in vehicle encroachment concerns get it away from the driveway away from that intersection and it's an awful place to have it I spend a lot of time there in the summer I just want I want to know where it's going to be or where we're thinking it's going to be and I think I understand where it's going to be so we have a motion in a second any further discussion amongst the board okay seeing none all those in favor I I unanimous thank you all right we are going to move to uh the Minutes review and vote to approve minutes of meetings public session July 29 August 26 September 23rd December 2 all of 2024 I move rule I have no issues with it Madam chair either I need to abstain from December 2nd as I was absent from that meeting okay Mr Mcall no no problem okay so let's take them this way uh motion to approve July 29 August 26 September 23rd 2024 second okay I have a motion in a second all those in favor I I unanimous okay let's take December 2 motion to approve the uh public meet minutes of meetings December 2nd 2024 I move approval okay second I have a motion in a second any further discussion amongst the board seeing none all those in favor I one obain one exstension thank you okay Town manager supplemental report Mr Rena thank you madam chair very quickly uh this is more of an update um I included at your desks a copy of a letter that uh the select Board office received from the mass dot State traffic engineer um as you all recall April town meeting directed my office to draft a petition letter to the state traffic engineer in regards to um reviewing uh speed posted speed limits in reducing the speed limits on three segments of Locust Street and Woods Hole Road um the petition letter was sent to Mass do the state traffic engineer on September 27th 2024 um the letter that you have um before you is basically the state Traffic Engineers response um they had a 90-day window if you recall if they hadn't responded within 90 days um the uh request to reduce speed limits along that road segment Locust Street and Woodle Road would have automatically gone into effect um they made the deadline by about a week uh by responding by December 19th um as you can see um the state traffic engineer determined that the petition cannot be granted in full um staff from the mass Do's District 5 office has completed a thorough investigation of the request um and a posting of the speed limits as petition would not conform with mass Do's procedures for Speed zoning on state highways and Municipal roads however uh the wind that we we did get notification of was that they are going to continue to do or do a thorough review of the existing speed zoning on Locust and woodo road with the ultimate goal of encouraging vehicle speeds that are better aligned with the context of the roadways I'll be honest I don't know exactly what that means um I just wanted I just wanted the board to know that we did receive um before the holidays a response from the state traffic engineer indicating that they were not going to Grant the question for Council what what's Town's recourse in that in s such a situation if there's none there's absolutely none you can't anything they can't appeal they have authority statutory authority over that speed bumps state roads you can find a windmill to tilt that maybe that's all I have mam chair okay select board reports I will I'm happy to begin um I just would like to notify the board and the public that I will be stepping off the board as of May and I will notify the town clerk's office in writing prior to February 10th we're going to miss you yeah thank you Mr Brown any other select board reports uh I don't I would say I don't remember if I reported this uh did we talk about the having attended the surf Drive nourishment study was there a meeting in between that was I think in between our Monday meeting and the very brief yes Thursday me thday meeting right was very well uh introduced and a lot of people attended and uh it's very informative talking about surf drive and the the possibilities and the lack of some other possibilities where and it was recorded it was recorded because I um I actually wanted to go but I didn't because I heard that three members were going to be there I didn't want to get and I did reach out to uh Mr Johnson's job I asked a couple questions but U you know we didn't all make any plans okay didn't deliberate right we didn't deliberate any other select board reports no no okay it's a lot of Miss no it's been a quiet couple of weeks with the holiday okay that's not what I'm asking you Mr Mcall I'm asking you to make motion to to it's your favorite thing to do um really okay I have a motion do I have a second I'll second that okay I have a motion in a second any further discussion amongst the board hearing none all those in favor unanimous thank you folks happy [Music] --------- ##VIDEO ID:KT5Wq9it85k## [Music] [Music] hi it's Brandon from cran Appliance since 1983 our goal as a family-owned company has been simple to give our neighbors on the cap and Islands a great shopping experience rest easy knowing our professional team will listen to your needs and help you pick the perfect appliances for your home at crane Appliance we know how difficult Appliance shopping can be our team is here for you crane Appliance we call the cap and Island's home Carlson printing 508 548 7303 our email address is Carlson printing aol.com Carlson printing for all your printing needs needs John's Liquor Store 729 Main Street fouth 508 548 2287 e good evening and welcome to the meeting of the fouth select board it is Monday January 6 2025 at exactly 5:00 pm. and to begin this meeting I would ask that everyone please silence your cell phones and double check that indeed they are silenced and secondly if you are making an audio or video recording of this meeting of this open meeting session please notify me as the chair um and the placement and operation of the recording equipment should not interfere with the conduct of the meeting please join me for the Pledge of Allegiance I pled aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all does the um plan um zba need to open their meeting yes I'll turn it over to the chair I need a motion to open a meeting so move I move a joint meeting with the fouw select second all those avable by okay and at this time I will uh turn it over to both the chair of the zba and also our leaz on Scott zinsky so um thank you everybody for coming um as liaison to the zoning board uh over some of their workshops and with some of the uh uh the new rules and regulations and the fact that we've never been in some of the situations wherein uh the board felt that it would be um constructive to have a meeting with us to be able to ask some questions that they have concerns about and get things on the record because we're on such unfamiliar uh ground right now with the with the legislation with with the state with how this works uh with time frames and all of that and stop me Suzanne if if I go astray with the the description but as liaison and with our new training and all of that there's only so many things that I can interject as liais on rather than bring it to the board so this is my attempt to bring their concerns in their totality to the board concerns and questions and have someone here to be able to answer and and that's basically all this is is it's an initial attempt to try to um check some boxes boxes with both boards so with that Adam chair thank [Music] you the town of f is now in state h it um gives us the ability to even further help with affordable heal um previously we've been pretty much handcuffed we're told how the project will go pretty much I mean there's a few things we can tweak here and there but not much location you know but this this gives us the opportunity to um negotiate and it it there's quite a few benefits I don't know if you want me to list them all now or if you want to discuss it later but it there's a lot of benefits to the town and I was going to start off by asking each and every one of you what Safe Harbor means to you individually for the town if I could do that if you could stop sure um I think maybe what what you were actually just getting at is it um gives us the ability to pursue um diverse housing affordable housing um in the way that is best for the town and in the way that we as a town think is best um not in the way that a developer thinks is best for us go ahead okay yeah I mean obviously the same thing you said chair and same thing uh Miss Goldstone said uh but it also gives us an opportunity to sit down with developers and try to uh work with them you know to come up with the best plan possible for the town addressing affordable housing attainable housing market rate housing so I think it gives us you know an ability to work with developers and I think that's a that's a positive yeah yeah I think it makes a gives us an opportunity to make better projects because they're still going to come they're still going to want to you know exploit the landscape and make their money but you know we had a developer in here a couple weeks ago who had a nice good-look project and uh but it was all targeted for 80% or 100% or you know market value and I asked him if he could include some 60% and he said no I just can't do it I just don't want to be paying that you know mortgage on those properties and getting a lower reduced rate all forever but I think that somehow we need to figure out how we can do that make that if it's a tax incentive or we just say hey if you want to do this project you're going to have to include it because I really feel like it's important that we diversify the income range on these projects and not relegate all the lower income people to be stuck in you know one big building somewhere because that's not going to help them get ahead you know they need to be in a place where there's other people that different diverse Economic Opportunity yeah and I agree with everything my colleagues have said and the only thing I would just add is that um moving forward with badly needed housing in this town making sure that we have some say in how it meets the needs of our town and how we Define those needs um you all set yes given that I've sat on both both tables and I've sat with with your group I understand that there's a lot of frustration when there are things that that are proposed that are backed by the state and and you know we talk and we bang our fist about having to change legislation what I think is was is good about this is with all the things that the board the zoning board can see that can be corrected through the through the cases that you've you've sat on all the hearings all the things that went right all the things that went wrong this short Moment In Time gives that your board in my opinion the ability to refine your process um and help this board and I'm speaking solely for myself but hopefully from the rest of my colleagues that they will understand that you have a job you're a quasi judicial board and you have a job to do and we put our faith in you to interpret the bylaw the best way we see fit because we can't do your job and our job that and that's strictly how I feel the people that I suggest to put forth I put that faith in but then I'm done with you we can want all we want I can want a Ferrari but I don't have one so getting an open line of communication because you guys can't talk to anybody ever it seems like you're either in you know waiting for appeal or you can't talk to each other this is a perfect opportunity without being confrontational or adversarial to get out your concerns and for us to be able to answer them the best way we see fit or get answers for those questions nothing's going to get done in one hour but this is a great first step to everybody um pulling on the same end of the Rope thank you madam chair Madam chairs can I yes add one thing that I think we all agree on but I want to make explicit which is what Safe Haven does not mean Harbor safe har sorry Safe Harbor does do not mean and it does not mean that we are done with affordable housing or have enough housing in our community we still need to be working on creating enough housing um and a diversity of housing in our community I agree I'll just go I just jotted down the benefits if you want to hear them we now have the ability to negotiate the location like sewage like near downtown you're not on an island in the middle of town where you can't even walk to anything we would like the ability to negotiate the percentages of the Ami that's for you Doug we will have the ability to negotiate the number of affordable units right now we get four out of a big project five sometimes you know 25% 25% we can um the zba can now have input on design uh open space snow parking traffic there's so many things we are allowed to speak up about which is wonderful we will have input on density which is huge and we'll have most importantly the input on nitrogen and the Wastewater which we have none now so those are just the benefits that I I don't know if my other board members have other benefits but that was the list I just joted down and then I don't know if anyone up here wants to ask a question I thought we could all ask a question of you and then we could get to the LI process if that's okay sure anybody want to start up here Tony I'd like to understand how the board most of problem is in a nitrogen sensitive area and our Board of Health is doing a very good job in trying to get to where we need need to get to with IIA systems and the future of septic systems going forward uh we're not going to sue the whole town we have sewer coming in there are projects 40 BS that'll come up that uh W be able tie into the SE line as it goes by we can't talk about addresses but as it goes by that se line can't even tie into it um but I'd like to understand um and this is an opportunity for us to be able to deal with nitrogen sensitive areas in a way that we couldn't do before to cover uh 2472 and uh what goes on beyond that um I'd like to know what each board member uh believes we should be doing with regard to permitting and nitrogen sensitive areas however who wants to tackle first I would say that the um water quality management committee with conjunction with the Board of Health is now trying to come up with whether or not they want a 300 or whatever it is foot uh area from any Wetland or estuary to have uh nitrogen you know mandates mashby is a th000 feet from any Wetland so they're a little ahead of us on that I think it should be something that's already built into the town's uh whether it's the health department or the water quality management shouldn't really be something that you have to struggle with but for now you probably will just respond to that um in the lip review guidelines it says that they have to reduce nitrogen yet the projects are coming to the select board and I guess that you you all have your own opinion you all going to have your own thought process when you if and when you do support it I I guess I'd like at least to in my my personal opinion at least there's a disclaimer that you endorse it you like it but it still has to go through all the formal boards for approvals and things it it kind of makes it a littleit more difficult even though though we are a separate board bound only by the bylaws that are in the book that we that we utilize for our our reviews of project but and Mass state laws and Mass state laws but that continues to be in the lip speaking of lips is is currently it says to reduce nitrogen yet we're getting a lot of projects that just aren't doing that so again I appreciate as you mentioned you know additional setbacks and things like that but again when you're looking at lips uh to kind of to Tony Point has that box been checked off and I know Jed and Kim are doing a great job in bringing these projects and meeting with the applicants to make sure that they fully understand some of the hurdles that they might get into but it is more difficult like for me as a board member as potentially a lip would come before us it's been kind of reported in in the papers that hey select board's really on board with this uh okay that that's great and we appreciate you doing your due diligence but our board still has additional due diligence and I think reduction of nitrogen should be at the head of that and I would love for the Board of Health to quite honestly move more expeditiously and say if there's a new dwelling in the town of fth that's just the cost to doing business not everybody needs granite countertops or courts countertops maybe they have to reduce the house by 50 square feet but you have to do something to help us on our Wastewater side of it and so hopefully y that uh again and we're going to get everybody's guidance those things are important for me to hear from from from the select board is you know what can you articulate to us how much affordable housing is a target for us yeah it's great we're at 10% but we all want more everybody here in this room wants more affordable housing but it's going to come to in my estimation our board in a sense that it's something that's approvable also because it makes it very difficult when we're trying to rest with density and things like that that might not have been fully vetted so I appreciate your thoughts go ahead Mr Brown so I would say that we I think we need to do some more work on our policy for lip applications now that we have this new opportunity I think that's part of why we're here today because I I don't want us to handicap You by having a pre uh an advanced meeting to discuss a lip application and we like you said we're sort of already on board and already endorsed ing it so if we're going to be endorsing it it should be something that's already a quality project with taking into consideration that nitrogen management well I think the process that we've agreed upon you know gets us to that point with our recommendation to to the town manager and then you know it it comes to the select board so I'm I'm not sure we need to you know change the policy at this point I think the policy is uh is is pretty well set is what is what's expected of that advisory group and and what the process is so give you an example that we talked about last week the developer came in and I asked him here well we were pretty far into the process if he would include the 60% wasn't about nitrogen but I'm just saying that he was already oh I mean his in the in a mode for you know he already had his performer he already knew what he was going to be doing so I think the policy like say you need to include a 60% or you need to have nitrogen removed whatever more guidance for the working group so that they know what the ground rules are what what we really are expecting M chair go ahead Bob I think you um you might have misspoke but they're not an Advisory Board they requi judicial board they can do what they want and then have to deal with us after the fact they're not advisory I didn't I'm talking about the lip advisory work group oh oh my mistake then yeah um no I no no know what their responsibility if I may go ahead um I personally understand that there's there's FR not frustration and confusion because we task the front office that's part of our strategic plan is to create Workforce housing doesn't mean every every project is the right project and I've told people in the past while I was there and while I've been here you all have a vote when you feel it is not the right thing and it can't be everyone you have you have to work this process because it's a balancing act but don't be afraid to say no and hold people's feet mainly the applicants to the fire and on occasion now there are companies out there that evolve with what you require as a board I've seen it myself where you don't have to go through the semantics of the pressure and the posturing and all of that there are some companies some may even be here that come in with a set of findings and a set of rules that help you govern what your decision is going to be and adjust that but know that it's it's all right to vote against something just don't make it a habit and don't use it as a stick that's all I have to say m Goldstone yeah I just um I mean I think what I'm I'm hearing from you is is a need for clearer goals and guidelines um and I'm seeing nodding so okay message received and and I would agree that that those are things that we should be working on I mean to the question of how much is enough in terms of a affordable housing or attainable housing and and then you know you get into the gradations of of different income levels and types of housing like those those aren't numbers we have they're obviously not easy numbers to come up with but the the housing production plan I think starts to point us in that direction right it at least gives us a target of a number of units per year that we need to be producing um but but I agree I think those are those are numbers and and questions that we need to be working on answering thank you anybody else Frank do you have any questions well I think that Heather's comment about uh we're despite the fact that we're in Safe Harbor 40 BS are not going to go away and we're going to continue to get them and it's important to remember that in order to stay in Safe Harbor we have to continue to produce affordable housing every year we have a certain amount that we have to produce every year and I'm assuming we're going to get applications that will probably allow us to do that but um it's it's it's very important that we not lose sight of the fact that we're still need affordable housing the 10% doesn't really satisfy the requirement or the the need for it public need for um one one uh thing that I would like to bring up it's not necessarily related to what we've talked about before but when we get a project in and this is when we get a 40a or 40b we send out referrals to all Town departments and sometimes we get very cursory responses back um and I know that when we have asked other Town departments for their analysis or their assistance um at least I think sometimes we get we really don't get necessarily the in-depth analysis we might be looking for because we do need the assistance of other Town departments so I would kind of ask that you as a board perhaps send the word out to the town departments that when they get a referral from the board of appeals that they sit down and sharpen their pencil and and give us their best effort uh to because when we make a decision we can't just pull it out of thin air we have to have something um in uh on the record that we can rely on to support it and uh I I that's just a comment that I would make I know it's uh I don't know how anybody else feels about it but I think if you as a board of Selectmen uh looking at the or taking responsibility to ask the other Town departments to really give us a little bit more in-depth analysis when they are responding to referral it would be very helpful Madam chairs is is your town manager uh and I message heard I I was under the impression that was getting perhaps a little better but evidently we're still missing on some some some count so that is the town manager I will make sure that going forward the town Department that would also uh if we I think we as a board should feel um confident or comfortable asking a member of the board or or a department head to come to us and talk to us about their referral uh we're not going to do that all the time but there are certain cases where like for example we may have a um uh a referral where there's traffic issues we might want to speak to somebody from the police department and actually have them come and talk to us and educate us about what the problems are in that neighborhood rather than just send us a paragraph or two on a piece of paper what is the requirements for that legally I mean do they are they require it's not like a subpoena for a hearing but if they request that a department head or or someone from a certain division be present for a meeting can they make a request through your office how does that work or does it even work like that can they make that request directly um I think it's being made now and I I I second that recommendation I'm not aware of any other community that relies solely on written testimony for for zba approvals oh no I mean live testimony is eminently better than a paragraph written on a page or referrals at all Sometimes they come in without even any referral no comment right we get no comments but also remember now we have uh peer review Engineers looking at at our projects but they're not from Falmouth um they're from somewhere else and they don't really know the pro the the community or its needs the way some local department head might so I think it would be very helpful if we had more Community input in the form of you know referrals and input from department heads who have specific knowledge of the facts that we're looking for as often as not that issue arises during the application you know or the hearing process and I mean uh we don't realize what we need and and in defense of the the department um they probably didn't anticipate it either I mean so a more seamless transition Ian you know between question and answer would would help us um considerably I mean you can't expect them to Divine everything that is our concern because often times as I say it just comes up in the process and it it hasn't been that bad I mean we've requested and received um you know help that we needed but um we need more occasionally can you do me a favor anything you want can you start clicking your your pen while cuz I watch every meeting and that's all I can hear is click as well no but you're exactly right and that's why meetings last so long because they request information and then they have to wait for that to come back and then they have to get but keeping in mind they're on a time schedule once their hearings start that the clock starts ticking so some things some decisions that are made I don't know if everybody is aware of that they have to watch the clock on everything they do and then again they can't speak to each other so they have nobody else to bounce it off of so was a add sorry as you know referencing the referrals the zoning board in the 40b process is tasked with taking the place of all other local boards including the select board and only excluding Board of Health and conservation so if the zoning board is looking at a property that for example is historic it's critical that we have input from the historical Commission because they are the most knowledgeable body that would know hey if this was before you how would you act and now their reply does not mandate that the zoning board follow it but it gives the board guidance and so it's a very weighty process for the zoning board to stand in literally everybody else's stad and make sure there's no misstep anything else from the board on that suggestion sounds like a doable concrete suggestion Mr Duffy thank you for that is there a way we can like trigger when you send out that request do you copy somebody in the town manager's office okay so they'll know okay what's What's the timing usually I mean how much time does the do the Departments have to to get back to uh yeah so if I may when uh 40b is filed we're required to open the hearing within 30 days so immediately we have to send out referral requests but we also that triggers uh notice to newspapers mailing to a Butters and so all of those things take time and it's very obviously condensed when you have anybody set up a meeting 30 days to get all of that in place is pretty short that being said typically those hearings are all continued but the law also with their lovely idea of condensed time expects all the referring boards to reply within a certain period of time or they essentially forego their opportunity and that's 30 calendar days that's not 30 work days correct right so it's important that we get input quickly but because the board cannot independ ly for example call engineering and say hey I'm struggling with this can you help me because then only one board member has that information so it's more important for us to get Representatives that appear so that they can answer questions and it also opens it up which is the intent of this whole process to the public the public gets to hear What that particular Committee Member or um engineering or whatever what they have to say about the project so and again when it comes down to a final decision and whether something's appealed if you don't have that information in your record you have nothing to stand on so it's just critical that we have all the pieces in there can you just explain a little bit so when the developer comes in they first see you and they tell you I want to build 32 houses and I'm on four acres or whatever it is is that trigger you to take action or do you then have to bring it to the board and then they say okay get all these referrals no so the trigger happens with the actual file of the application but because there's so much involved in the filing of an application and we and bouth do a lot of Outreach with developers so oftentimes they'll have uh met with housing um Development Group or talk to as the town planner or myself or housing um or go through the lip process with you so typically there's already sort of pre filing contact as well as they have to get that project eligibility letter from the state so even if everything is totally in secret and in the dark you have some advanced notice because you get that notification what does that mean what you just said secret and in the duck what are you talking about I'm just saying if somebody didn't come and meet with the town initially if they were just doing planning all on their own and they never reached out to anybody they still have to file with the state and the state would trigger a letter to the town I understand thank you and so does that letter to the town for instance does that say if you see it's in a historic district do you take it upon yourself then to reach out to the historic commission or is there a meeting first I'm just wondering how cumbersome the the process so we have a referral process um and Ashley my assistant is wonderful with that and so whenever an application comes in she automatically distributes referral requests to all of these various departments okay so it's automatics yes okay thank you may I just Madam chair may I just say something on that a developer and some of this was covered the project eligibility letter is a expensive process uh for the developer and it's a lot of work when they file for that and when they finally do get the project eligibility letter that is as already mentioned is what triggers the opportunity to file for a comprehensive permit and of course the comprehensive per some there some of these folks can spend 50 80,000 or more dollars depending on the size of the project before they ever get in front of us and then on top of that they have to pay for our peer engineers and other things that norina is more aware of than than I am but there's a lot of money spent and that's where I think that we as a community have to be very sharp in how we deal with our pre-ip process and one of the things that might be helpful it's up to you folks uh because I read your uh your your your uh lip process um is that you outline and maybe you do this is that you give the developer whoever it is uh very clear directions as to what you're looking for nice expect you do that but one of the things that might help in that process is understanding well I can only speak for myself uh how I or any board member actually approach a 40b application how we do our research what are we looking for uh what is what triggers our questions and that could be it could be as simple as you know the the architectural style we have a right to talk about the architectural style uh Mass housing has a guide book it's not a very good guide book but we can actually talk about that uh we can talk about landscaping and screening we can talk about abing properties but one of the things that is of great concern I think certainly to me is how do we affect the abuts what effect what negative effect do we have on the abutters Tony that's up to you guys and I realize it gets before you I mean for you to ask us that question it's IMM material because we we don't have we don't make that call no I know that but when I'm trying to say is this you have a lip process that's going to developer goes through and he or she is going to spend a lot of money to get there and if you could dial in dial them in as to what they what's going to be expected of them now that we're in Safe Harbor we can look at things a little differently now that again is going to be up to you in my opinion by way by the way you do your business and the way you govern your board I may just jump in for for a moment I am part of the you know The Advisory Group uh I will say that in in in a number of instances the group in in in the person of Kim Andor Jed will let the developer know some of the things that that the zoning board will be interested and not necessarily part of our decision that's not our domain but it comes out in those discussions Tony that you know this is something the zoning board may be looking at so to the extent that we're able to give some information or that heads up I I think you know the group tends to do that as much as we can thank you Mr Johnson stop yeah if I might just follow up on that um I agree with both members of the select board that um certainly all of those details about architecture and the butter impacts that's exactly what the zba is there to decide on not the select board however that said as Mr Mcall indicated if we receive from the zba here you know here are some concise things that we're going to be looking for specifically with lip applications we could as part of the you know before it even comes to to the The Advisory Group that's something that staff could get to the developers at the very beginning of the process before they start spending money on design so I think there may be an opportunity again not for the select board to decide on design guidelines and a of requirements that they're going to as a basic zba right if the zba can provide some concise these are things guidelines these are things we're going to be looking for when we the zba review this lip we get that information to the developers early that may be helpful right down to far too many times in my experience you you'll get a a an application that isn't even completed you know one of my mentors back in the day that that was the first thing that they looked at and if it didn't happen if if there's a yes or no answer then there should be an answer on there one way or the other and to have to chase those is time consuming and and convoluting in itself so basic things like that really do make sense this is the list of prerequisites that we're going to be looking for across the board I'm GNA let I'm going to go to miss go that's okay I I want to make sure I'm understanding I I I think what you were maybe requesting was so when we as a board vote to endorse a lip application um just because we endorse something because on the whole we think it is the right kind of project not all of the details are right but the right kind of project to go forward doesn't mean that there aren't some concerns and so is what you're asking for for some of those concern points to be more formally documented in that endorsement right like in that in the letter that we end up sending endorsing it to say we're endorsing this but um you know with with potential concerns about density or renewable energy or or something like that that points in certain dire is that what you're looking for may I may I I know that I watch your lip process I watch the applicants come in and there's sometimes no questions sometimes you don't even ask questions that's happened maybe one question Doug asked one last time about the percentage of that gentleman sometimes there's not even any questions I'm sitting at home going oh my God you know because that I exactly I would feel you would dig a Little Deeper but in your defense I mean you'd have to be quite familiar with how we approach things and it's and it's a long and and difficult process I I um and and I mean for us to expect you to do in 15 minutes what it takes us 6 weeks to do I mean is or more is unrealistic but I mean any little thing would help you know and even just preparing the applicant because it seems some applicants keep things as Loose as possible um so they can you know benefit themselves in their bottom line um and you know I mean we also live in the world with respect to zoning that everything out of your mouth is possibly appealable to no matter where it comes from that may slip out at the end so that's a truth at a hearing personally I know that I'm not in my lane for that so I don't do that to you know I I don't try to act as you know a zoning member during a lip no I and Trust in the fact that it's going to go to the right place and that's going to be taken care of that's how I look at it as an individual member I'm going to go to Mr Brown and um Miss Goldstone so I would think that you know the lip is really our responsibility because that's our opportunity to negotiate with the developer they are the regulatory aspect of it but we're like let's make a deal if you want to give us a little more uh affordability or some lower uh income level affordability that's where we can negotiate and I think a lot of that needs to be spelled out in a a a policy for the lip application if we want to modify it I think that's our responsibility Miss Goldstone so I guess so I have some concerns with where the conversation feels like it's been going because I I we are two separate boards with two different jurisdictions and roles and what I don't want us to do is step on your toes or constrain you or hamper your process but it sounds like you're looking for a little bit more guidance and what we have is 15 review guidelines we have the town strategic plan and in my mind when a lip application is is coming to us we're reviewing for alignment with those 15 lip application guidelines and the Strategic plan and so right maybe to say okay this aligns really well with 10 of these there's a couple places where we have some concerns with whether this aligns with the lip guidelines or our iic plan I I personally wouldn't feel comfortable going much further than that in any sort of um specificity about any specific project because that that's that's your jurisdiction right so I guess that's that's just kind of how I look at the the application and endorsement process Mr SK and then I'll again back to the most recent uh lip that we're talking about uh you know when that gentleman came in originally he had his plans and we discussed it and and he added uh uh affordable units to what he originally thought was going to be the situ what what he originally wanted uh so there is that opportunity and you know but there comes a point where you know the developer has to make up a mind whether to as you explained you know to to to to us the the other night so I mean I think the The Advisory Group does look to see what we can get from the developer to help you know the town meet its uh meet its affordability requirements so but it's you know it's it's really just starting I mean we're all going to we're we're learning from this and we'll take all of this uh you know and and assimilate it and then use it going forward go ahead I I agree to a certain extent I think it would be incumbent upon the applicant rather than us dig things out of them for them to be open about what they would be willing to do as part of their presentation I'm open to more affordability I'm open to a a lower level of of nitrogen loading they are very rarely do we have a firsttime applicant up there they know how this goes and and on some occasions the things that are left open to interpretation is where things get messed up down the line did you and we all have a vote even on a lip application we can vote no if we don't like the way it's going one of the qu I mean one of the things that I look forward going forward with lip applications is it it allows now five extra sets of eyes as well as several working groups to review applications uh clearly your findings are going to indicate okay these are checking off the right boxes on this criteria what would be helpful for me and hopefully for other members of the board is if there are issues that you're not going to be able to vet during the time period you have it please pass them up to us so that during when we're starting to have formal hearings for hours as opposed to 15 minutes we can either ask the questions vet them out to town boards ask for specific input from town boards but that way we can resolve issue issues of local concern now that we're in Safe Harbor all of those local issues uh that used to take a back seat because people could appear to the hack uh we can bring them to the Forefront we can negotiate or we can deny depending on what the issue might be so raising the issues so that we can properly vet them as a board would be very help personally would be very helpful for us um what do actually get the answers go ahead do you feel like that's not being done because i' I've SE the letters that go out after our initial meetings and I think they are very thoughtful I think that this town does a very good job at vetting things but in the seven years I've been on the board people catch things that five six other members that staff don't catch so as many eyes on a project uh or especially and everyone brings a different point of view catching mistakes catching issues catching unintended consequences or problems a year 6 months 5 years down the road uh it's important everyone lives in different parts of the Town everyone has a a finger on the pulse of a particular Community uh some better than others of different parts of the town so the more I reviewing a project about the potential impact issues is very helpful for the board James you don't think you don't think that vetting something prior to a a hearing being open puts your board in Jeopardy if you're trying to vet something ahead of its filing a little bit and then after its filing you can't talk about it anyway so how you can't you're you're not supposed to work outside your board that's what the law says so if you're prev vetting that would exclude you in my opinion to have to recuse yourself because you've done work prior to the applications uh uh Inception I'll defer to Morrow but I would suggest that as part of the lip we're going to get your refer your referral from I'm talking about your Board vetting prior to an issuance we would be we're not vetting that's how I heard that we don't do I'm looking at a finding that would be submitted as part of the lip application stating this is the concerns that the select board has these are the reasons why we're endorsing the project we can then look at that and say all right well here's four or five concerns let's talk about this with the developer when they come in front of the zoning board Mr John Let's be clear we do no v no yeah so um so I I just wanted you know for the public I think the the zba members are aware you received as part of the application review process that we actually do have in our evaluation form we do have some general sort of guidance from the zpa zpa included in that and you know and we're looking at those issues um to try to identify them but I just want to speak to the the the viability of the select board screening for things like design and a butter impacts because remember your board does really important complicated in-depth reviews of building applications this board deals with 50 different subject matters right so for this board to sort of really do if if you're relying on them to to know identify you know a butter issues and and in some cases they find one and they mention it in other cases they don't and then there is one I not sure that's fair to the select board I'm not sure that's that's realistic I think maybe at some level staff screening can identify some really glaring issues um and then we need to separate what the roles of the two boards are and this board's going to be focused on policy goals you know whether they're housing goals or environmental goals and then your board is you know is really the one that's going to have to focus on things like design and a butter impacts I think that's those are the two different roles of the two boards um um and and I hear you it it would be great if you know if this board had a lot of excess time to do a you know a first vet of those issues so that you could then do a final vet but I'm just not sure that's realistic as the process goes along and we deal with more of these I mean some of these things will will come to light and you'll be cognizant of them I mean this should be like the first of of kind of like regular uh uh if not meeting or correspondence we have to um familiarize each other with you know what we can possibly do to um move this process along and better and a smoother with a with a um you know a better outcome but I mean it's kind of in flux just like the nitrogen issue I mean it it it's it's very difficult to be on this board I imagine did you want to say something I was just going to say reflecting back on like 375 sandwich road we did give a very hold on is that out of appeal yet it's not we can't we can't relate to it no all right just saying it's just an example of our letter that we sent in advance and I thought it was pretty well done you could say a certain project or whatever you just can't be that specific I I'd like to follow up on Mr Johnson st's comments and also on on the comments of M misss Goldstone in terms of us being two distinct boards with uh distinct focus on on the work that we do and I'd like a little more clarification around the roles and responsibilities when it comes to lip applications for the select board moving forward it is new to us I'd like a little more information like I said from Town Council and town manager to so that I can have a better understanding of what our role is moving forward I I think if it might help a little bit you know there are certainly guidelines that will help with that but one of the interests in lift is that the select board actually becomes a partner in the application so I just want to make sure that the select board understands what the state sort of draws out for the lip process and and that also developers if they have support from the select board they will walk forward to the zoning board with sort of a mandate if you will that you know the select board endorses so therefore the zoning board should and obviously is that what that means that's what it's implied yeah let meish legally is that what that means Town Council that's what I need clar that's exactly what I want clarification on what does an endorsement from this board mean moving forward if you're saying we're Partners on the application I need to have more information about that we'll some thank you m chair we we've had instances in the past where we've tried to enter a lip and the minute a question has been asked and not so many words we've been told well I don't need you anyway so that happens a lot we' heard that so that's what you're up against as well but this idea of us being partners and and so because we endorse it then this the zoning board should endorse that's news to me and so that's why I want more guidance around that so just as clarification the state does not indicate that the zoning board must follow if the select board grants or endorses a lip that the zoning board must say yes but certainly the developers will come forward with that as you know a ticket in their pocket I understand that as leverage but what you said was that we the zoning board should and I just want to understand a little bit more about that prior to us hearing another lip application I think that um if you and I know you guys are all busy but I think if you follow the process of one or two of these lips as they go through US you're that's really the only way you're going to become you know familiar with what our asks are and and what we're looking for I mean it's again you can't be expected to see it in action I would in action is I would agree with you I mean you can't expect to know what's going to go on in our meetings when we don't even know and it's too complex to give I was just going to say we have a couple of developers in the audience who might be interested to hear their perspective I don't know just suggesting it's an open meeting do you want Mr Duffy I couldn't hear we didn't hear what he said I personally think this lip process is a very valuable process and the comments that noren made about it's perceived sometimes that the board of the select board is a partner in the application um I don't see it as the select board is directing the process at all but I see you as participating in it and I think that's very valuable because you can call upon staff to not only look at the application but also in to negotiate changes or improvements in the process or in the application before it gets to you and before it gets to us I would like to see more lips actually um I don't know how everybody else feels about that but um I think it's a very valuable process and I I appreciate what you folks do but I it you're not directing us to do it but on the other hand if you do have some specific concerns about an application that maybe you can't address let us know and we'll do it but that's just my feeling anyways thank you Mr Johnson St yeah I just want to um Echo something that Mr Peterson said earlier on in this conversation because I think it's a a very practical um small but important step that this board can take which is when we issue a lip decision just to have a standard disclaimer not not a review of you know we're concerned about this a butter issue or this design issue but a standard disclaimer that says we're endorsing this you know as a housing project and I'm not going to words Wordsmith it correctly here but you know broad Strokes the select board is endorsing this project but subject to a detailed review by the zoning board of appeals to address all of these you know design and ab butter issues so that the zba has something to point to if rhetorically a developer tries to use it as a budgeon that oh select board told you to just approve this thing no the select board says we support this project and we support the role of the zba to go through its process thank you Mr Brown so uh interesting to get some feedback on my earlier comments about maybe adjusting our policy because honestly when the developer comes to the podium they're pretty far along because they've been dealing with staff for a while they have certain uh assurances that they're on the right track and when they come to us I feel like it's not too late but it's a little late to be asking them to make changes because when the gentleman was at the podium last time we met here and I asked him about the 60% affordability it was already kind of too late at that point so I'm interested to know if how how we might you know ask for more in advance so that we aren't in that position so I I I would say that um you know I think you're you're generally right it's not absolutely too late at that point it's still fairly early in the process but at that point the developer had spent some money in a couple of you know several months I think and and you know probably three or four meetings vetting the project um but I you know from my viewpoint that is a terrific success story that project um and I think the disconnect is what you were looking for was not in our policy guidance it wasn't something we were looking for we weren't looking for 60% Ami for home ownership right you know and we can have more conversations about whether that's a realistic goal just in terms of the cost of producing the housing um but the way to make sure that we're not missing opportunities to get select board policy goals fed in to the developer very early on is is to go back to those lip guidelines so um if you know they were recently reviewed by the select board um but as we said this you know we're new to Safe Harbor these are really important so if the board wants to insert something that isn't there then we should get them in these guidelines so that staff can address it at the very very beginning of the process right thank you can I add something to that yes um I I just want to add very briefly that the zba now that there in Safe Harbor can can deny projects but they have to make a finding that in order to deny it that it's not consistent with local needs that is the legal standard for denying a 40b project under Safe Harbor and it's your policy goals that determine what the local needs are now that they have this ability finally in Safe Harbor to actually deny a project without it going to the hack they need some guidepost to know what those local needs are when you're talking about affordable housing um it it that the local need is going to be incredibly intertwined with the the actual community so FAS needs are going to be different in terms of affordable housing because of the constraints we have with the need to to um for nitrogen reduction for example so where those um where those issues might have been outside their jurisdiction before maybe it's so intertwined with the creation of more and more affordable housing that now you you can draw the IIA systems or some other um way to fight uh the increased nitrogen loading through a creation of what the local needs are so I I do think that looking at your policy and trying to shape them in a way that can help the zba Define when they can and cannot deny a project we'll be great we'll be really helpful for that if if you could like kind of put them on notice that right from the beginning they should try to design in some flexibility instead of having it set in stone right down to their bottom line because we might be asking for these things and um rather than lose their project altogether which is uh you know our right to do if we judge so they should just you know be ready to be more flexible Mr Mcall you had made a comment to me that um perhaps there's we don't have much much time but we do have a couple of people in the audience miss manahan m Mr gaso who uh might have something to to add to the discussion as they would both be you know probably coming forward at some point in time thank you thank you Laura buan from the fouth Housing Trust I see you only have a few minutes I did prepare some comments but maybe you all would be willing to take them home just make a couple of brief points um as far as the lip process goes the select board should absolutely not be the permit review board the select board is is not partnering on a project they're asking the state to issue a project eligibility letter they're approving generally the parameters of the project only that it looks economically feasible that the site looks generally suitable that the unit numbers look generally okay that's all the select board is doing so you know we don't want to get into a process where the select board becomes the pre-review regulat board of the zoning board that would be I think a mistake because you're going to get less developers coming to you I think from the discussion tonight perhaps the zoning board might think about developing some review guidelines so that when the applicants are coming forward with the lip process the town manager's office and the housing coordinator can say here are the Zoning Board review guidelines when you're designing your project look to these guidelines because this is what the zone board is going to be looking for 6 months from now that I don't feel is is in the process um briefly my primary concern our primary concern is the um is streamlining the permit process right now these compreh comprehensive permits are taking six months or more we have to be more Innovative we have to be more efficient we are at Safe Harbor but that does not mean our crisis is over and there are lots of ways that we can continue to evolve we can um priorize affordable housing projects at the zoning board there's no regulation or authority that says that we can't say 40b projects they get priority in scheduling um we can update the application which is about 11 pages long it's very cumbersome for the developer I'll give you a copy of the Town of Barnstable it's two pages with attachments that are required we can develop digital platforms we did it for the building department we can do it for 40b where applications are filed online referrals are online Town departments respond online it's going automatically out to the developers that will create a lot of efficiency we can clearly Define the scope of peer review and I'll give you all my comments I see your pointing but the biggest thing I think we can do to help in the efficiency of the process is that we can categorize 40b projects as minor or major perhaps a minor project is three units or less a major project is more than that a minor project through the lip review could be signed off by the town manager does not need to go to the select board does not need to go to all these committees boom boom boom goes to the town manager three unit project signed and off to the state say same with the zoning board if you have three units or less it gets scheduled in priority it has a different application so there are ways that we can improve um the efficiency I'd ask you to review my comments in writing and please consider that we do need to continue to evolve and we have to do something about the process itself from the permanent perspective and with that I'd like to thank all of you for all the work that you do it's not meant as a criticism of that work it's meant more as a as we move forward let's try and find new ways to to do this more efficiently because I think the assumption that you're going to have a lot of developers knocking on your door I don't think that's correct I think developers look at towns that are not in Safe Harbor and they go to those towns and if we want developers to come here to continue to build housing we have to be more efficient and we have to be willing to work with them and understand what their profit margins [Applause] are thank you we're beyond our time but I would just like to thank the town manager's office for this executive summary with all the demographics very informative very helpful okay uh for the select board I would entertain a motion to adjourn move second okay I have a motion in a second any further discussion amongst the board seeing n all those in favor I make the motion second all those in favor I thank you guys [Music]