##VIDEO ID:iVN4s2ULsNY## [Music] welcome to the zoning board of appeals please please silence all cell phones and note that this meeting is being taped by fctv if there's any private party recording this hearing please stand up and ask for permission uh I'll introduce the board and the staff on my far right is Mark finer and a voting member to his left is Scott Peterson to my right is Frank clerk the Frank clerk Frank Duffy the clerk my name is Suzanne Murphy the chair and to my left is Tony Puchi a voting member on my my next left is Norine Stockman the zoning administrator and Ashley Dello on her left the off office assistant the zoning board of appeals is charged with applying the state zoning statutes as well as the town's zoning bylaws in reviewing and voting on any application all decisions are made through the public hearing process our goal is to hear testimony from the applicants and the public and to allow a full and fair discussion of the project prior to closing the hearing process and reaching a decision number one to begin each hearing the clerk will read the public announcement for the hearing and read pertinent information from the file two the applicant or the applicant's representatives will then have 15 minutes to make a presentation but their time may be extended by the vote of the board three the board will then question the applicant four next the public will be invited to comment comment should be limited to two minutes and be strictly related to The Proposal at hand all members of the public wishing to speak should wait and be recognized by the the chair and should come to the podium state your name and address for the record please speak to the microphone and it will amplify your voice and record audio for the fctv viewers and we also have a time if anyone wants to speak up just a public statement nothing that's on tonight's agenda if you have any kind of statement you want to make to the board we're not going to comment on it you're welcome to come up anybody have a public statement so then we'll move on to our hearings we have a continuation 28 White Caps Drive good evening Kevin good evening Madam chair members of the board all right so uh I am before you again representing Yakov and Galina asosi the owners of 28 White caps drive and they are seeking permission for the raise and rebuild of the existing non-conforming dwelling we were previously before this board about a month ago um and there were some requested modifications to the plan as well as some information relative to the required findings for a special permit within the Water Resource Protection District so we submitted the revised plan which is what on the screen now and those plans reduce the lot coverage by impervious surface to 18.7 which is below the 20% maximum allowed in the Water Resource Protection District uh that was accomplished by replacing the pave driveway with Crush Stone we also submitted correspondence from Mike Borelli of thouth engineering relative to the standards set forth in 247.50 b4e that section states that the zoning board May uh Grant a special permit for lot coverage in excess of 15% provided the proposal does not adversely impact quality or quantity of available water result in substantial disturbance of soils or drainage and does not exceed Max loading standard for nitrate nitrogen impact Mr borelli's letter notes that the quality of the water would not be impacted due to the installation of dry Wells and the removal of paved surfaces and the drain in the driveway uh as well as the additional naal plantings which will be done done to enhance the buffer to the pond these are all known methods to reduce surface water runoff he also noted that any disturbance here would be temporary in nature only during the construction period with erosion control measures implemented uh and all Disturbed areas to be stabilized and planted in addition the drainage measures will improve the site conditions as to nitrogen he noted that the existing conditions exceed 5 parts per million but the proposal results in actually a minor decrease beyond that this proposal is substantially in the same footprint as the existing structure maintains the same number of bedrooms as existing the existing non-conforming setback is marginally improved from 31 to 32 fet at the rear uh to the to the water's edge there uh unable to improve further due to to the septic located in front yard and front yard setback otherwise this conforms to lot coverage requirements and setbacks proposed rid height again is 28 ft 4 and 3/4 in there's no new non-conformity created and the homes designed to be ENC cared with the neighborhood this proposal has received in order of conditions from the Conservation Commission uh and as proposed represents an improvement over the existing conditions it improves the existing non-conformities increases the usable space and certainly um spruces up that that location there's nothing about this this proposal that is substantially more detrimental than what exists believe it meets all the require requirements of 240 10.2 a 7.7 b4e and 240 12.1 E I would be happy to address any questions I believe we provided all the information that the board requested and otherwise would ask that you grant the special permit Mark you have any questions down there no um I I don't have any problem with this this is all sand there and I think uh there should more than adequately handle it but uh uh you mentioned it have a a a a decrease in uh nitrogen um they're reusing the existing septic so where would that just out of curios where would the decrease come from so I actually took that from Mike's letter and what he said was um in fact there's a minor decrease in nitrogen loading due to an in increase in the roof area the increase in roof area provides a minor decrease minor increase in dilution of the N load please don't ask me to explain how I'm going to rely on the engineer statement for that one yeah um like I said I I have no problem with this but I don't I don't know where that comes from it doesn't make any sense to me but that doesn't I'm not an engineer I just play one on TV um but no problem yeah I think we' have some fun baning that one around right but um just more confirmatory four bedrooms correct um Ridge Heights at 28 ft 4 and 3/4 uh concom had to remove a fire pit sorry to play small ball but I just noticed we'll we'll comply with any requirements of all all the relevant boards and you mentioned that we would be back down to the 18.7 correct on by impervious Services Y what is there uh going back to the septic system is there capacity or is there any reserve space for an IIA there I I I'm not seeing at here on the I don't know the answer to that question Mr Peterson because they're reusing the existing yeah um given given the layout and the where the driveway is I suppose they could do an H20 where the driveway is if they needed to move it in that direction okay U no other questions thank you can I go back now just out of curiosity what uh why are they requiring the removal of the uh fire pit uh I wasn't involved in a Conservation Commission hearing but I suspect often times people locate fire pits down by the water's edge where it's nice to sit and enjoy fire and probably didn't have approval to do that so conservation told them to take it out oh just probably just the distance to the oh two things I got to find out Frank you have any questions no uh Scott asked my questions and got my answers so thank you all my questions have been asked wow so we'll go to the public anybody have any questions on this project from the public okay quiet night oh it's it's early yet I shouldn't get excited you're right um Mark motion to close I'll second we have a motion to close in a second any further discussion no no motion to approve of conditions did you vot oh I said you said all those in favor of closing I opposed none now you can go Motion to approve with conditions second that a second time bindings bindings property is located 28 White Caps Drive um in see in the Pine Crest Beach neighborhood ostrovski is the owner it's in an RC zoning in the RC zoning District um it's also in a water resource Protection District dist which Mr Clow just addressed they're seeking a special permit under Section 240 10.2 a to raise and rebuild the existing non-conform a single single family dwelling and a special permit under section 247.com and the existing dwelling uh has 1322 Square ft the proposed dwelling has 2,54 Square ft but the footprint is basically the same the lot size is 10,000 963 uh Square ft where 40,000 is the required minimum currently Street Front Edge is 95 where 100 ft is the required minimum now right now White Caps Drive is a public way the non-conformity here is the setback from Jenkins pond it's 31 ft from the 20ft contour line worth 50 ft required and it's to be improved to 32 ft um lot coverage by structure both are within except the both are within the limits excuse me lot coverage by structure is within the limits of the zoning bylaw and lot coverage by Structure Parking and Paving is within the limits of the zoning bylaw uh the height of the property will be 28.4 28 4 in which is within the limits of the zoning bylaw um we note that the uh board of Health has allowed has approved the continued use of the existing septic system which was granted by variance in the year 2012 Conservation Commission has advised us that they have approved the project with an order of condition issued on August 21st 2024 um the uh engineering department has asked us to consider storm water uh prevent runoff from the property and erosion and siment control they've also advised us that an outfall pipe shown on the original submission is actually not on the lot and not of any concern subsequently at the request of the zoning board of appeals we received a letter from Falmouth engineering on o October 30 2024 informing us that for purposes of the um uh Water Resource Protection District they have substituted a crush Stone driveway for the paveed driveway they'll be uh dry Wells for roof runoff and no increase in septic flow along with uh Native plantings to buffer the pond and minimal disturbances of soil um they have asked for a special permit under Section 2410 point2 a we make the finding that the proposed project will not subst not be substantially more detrimental to the neighborhood than the existing structure under Section 20 240 12.1 e special permit we determine that the site is adequate for the proposed use the site is suitable for the proposed use uh there'll be no impact on traffic flow and safety uh there'll be no impact on neighborhood visual character uh views and vistors that there's been provision made for adequate septics U adequate disposal of sewage there are adequate Utilities in the neighborhood and there's no impact on affordable housing with respect to section 247.com um we can grant the special permit for impervious surface in excess of 15% but less than 20 it will be at 18.7 and the finding is that there will be um no NE no unnecessary um impact on groundwater and that the um groundwater recharge system will not degrade the groundwater and the um based upon the uh Engineers letter we can determine that there'll be no uh effect on the potential water quality of the water body uh there'll be no unnecessary disturbance of soil and the uh there's not there'll be no excess Max loading uh of the nearby groundwater sounds good no letters no letters and uh no opposition at the hearing and conditions plans for plans um normal working hours working will be tough there too they can park at the beach that's true they do it they do it the right time of year there's actually a parking lot just down the road to the right for the private beach yeah uh all boards KC um maren anything else you got work hours right did we say that one yeah yeah so I had a note from the prior meeting about the office to remain case open for the bedroom count and I think also the recharge area though is be included um to be permanently maintained by the order the owner get that one yep no that's part of the that's condition within the bylaw itself so say um except uh I I'll answer my own question uh the reduction in nitrogen is is from them uh a adding a drywell and the crush Stone in the driveway slows down the so anyway that that was why that is a reduction um they're also yeah removing and not replacing a shed right so removing and not correct okay all right think we got it all okay all those in favor I I opposed none thank you very much great thanks go you're not done with me now we have um 13 for edgew Edgewater Drive [Applause] East this is application number 9424 Paul T Cummings Jr of West Massachusetts has applied to the zoning board of appeals for a special permit pursuant to section 240 10.2 a and 2401 11.3 A4 of the F zoning bylaw to raise and rebuild the existing non-conforming dwelling increasing lot coverage by structure property is located at 134 Edgewater Drive East SE Coast Shores East Falmouth Massachusetts the property is in RC zoning District um it's in the it's in a coastal Pond overlay District the flood zone is ae13 there's currently a single family 3bedroom 1 and a half story building of 1586 Square ft The Proposal is for a single family 3bedroom twostory single family home uh of 17711 square ft there are no previous decisions of the board of appeals the lot is 7,700 Square ft in a district which requires currently requires a minimum of 40,000 the street Frontage is uh according to my reading of the plan 75 ft where 100 fet is required currently it's public right of way um the non-conforming structure is 20.4% lot coverage by structure where um 20% is the limit without a special permit which they've now applied for the neighborhood average of lot coverage by structure is 16 . 53% L coverage by Structure Parking and Paving is 35 .5% it'll be reduced to 34 34.5% the limit is 40 the existing non other existing non-conformities at the setback from Charles River um which is a water resource is 39 ft where 50 is required and the setback from the street is 20.6 where 25 ft are required the sidelines are conf forming the height of the current structure will be 33% we have some referrals from engineering uh they have again uh asked us to consider that storm water be contained on the property um they've also advised us that there may be a driveway permit that may be required the Board of Health uh said we're we're okay for a three-bedroom house the setback uh must be 100 ft from the Wetland and to work with the Board of Health there's any issues the Conservation Commission has issued an order of condition on September 11 2024 the water department advises that a 2-in PE sleeve may be necessary because of the proximity to the septic system but if it's changed they may not so again you have to check with the water department fire department's okay building department has no comment planning board has no comment assessors have no comment we have seven letters of support on file we did have a letter from Health that had quite a few concerns yes it did yeah I I expect Mr clar is going to Wi he's going to wrap it up for us okay Kev you're at bat so um thank you for the record Kevin Clow I am before you representing Paul Cummings the owner of 134 Edgewater Drive East uh Mr Cummings is here with us tonight also joined by Mark dib of cap and Islands engineering and Denise boli who is the architect on this project um Mr Cummings is seeking permission to raise and rebuild the existing non-conforming dwelling on this property so this particular property is located in SEO Shores nor near the Northern end of the peninsula it is 7,770 Ft of Upland um Frank stole most of my presentation so I'm going to repeat a lot of it and I apologize uh it's a residential SE zoning district and approximately half the house existing house is located in the AE flood zone but as we know if any portion of it is in it is all in so presently there's a three-bedroom single family dwelling the footprint is uh just shy of, 1600 ft and it's non-conforming to front yard setback 20.6 or 25 is required rear yard set back to the Waters of Vineyard sound which is 39 where 50 is required and lock coverage by structure being 20.4% where 20% is allowed by right and up to 25 by special permit uh the coming has own this property for about 34 years um and the dwelling requires significant upgrades given the nature of their repair and upgrades that it does require and the location in the flood zone uh they're seeking to raise and reconstruct uh which will be pursuant to the building code and FEMA regulations as well so proposed plans do not affect the existing non-conforming setbacks the front yard setback um is 20.7 I'm not going to insult you by calling that an improvement from 20.6 and the RAR at setback Remains the Same lot coverage by structure does increase from 20.4 to 22% but would be eliminated as a non-conformity with the issuance of a special permit the bedroom count Remains the Same the proposed Ridge is 30 3 ft which is below the 35 ft that's allowed and lastly this would comply with FEMA and flon requirements this does require a special permit under 240 10.2 a and 24 111.3 A4 under 10.2 a pre-existing non-conforming structures may be changed by special permit provided not substantially more detrimental than what exists this board is asked to consider the standards of 240 12.1 e and whether or not the alteration creates any new dimensional non-conformities and pairs VI and distance and reasonably conforms to the the neighborhood here there's no new non-conformities created and the existing non-conforming setbacks remain unchanged a lot of the same requirements uh stand in for 24113 A4 under that provision uh properties within the RC zoning District may have lot coverage by structure exceeding 20% uh with the is with a special permit and in doing so the board's asked to consider there the size and height of the structure in relation to the neighborhood the effects of Shadow impacts of views and vist from public ws and the effect of ne29 coastal embayments uh we did prepare a lot comparison worksheet uh this house is very close to the media and footprint the dwelling as designed I believe is in character with the neighborhood especially considering uh its compliance with the flood zone standards as mentioned uh the Cummings have been here for 34 years they're sensitive to the area and the neighborhood and their design of this property there should be no impact of USS and Vistas from the public ways and no effective nitrogen as there's no increase in the bedroom count and there is a new title 5 system being proposed this project represents significant improvements over the existing conditions there's no new dimensional non-conformities there's no adverse effects and certainly none that would overp overbalance the benefits that I've outlined there's nothing here that is more uh substantially more detrimental than what exists I believe this meets all the requirements of 240 10.2 a 11. 3a4 and 12.1 e I'd be happy to address any questions the board might have at this time U Mr Murphy you mentioned um a referral from health I'm not I don't think I received a referral from health with number of questions but we will have to comply with all Health requirements regardless you can take a gandar if you want he was worried about setbacks so the engineer is here tonight so we can we can inquire of Mr dib but I would say you know this is not a blanket approval um anything we do is going to have to go through approval for the health department as well and we'll have to satisfy all of their conditions and requirements and to the extent there would be any changes to the plant we'd have to come back to this board you see it in there yeah it's just saying that they can't determine uh on the plan whether there's a 100 foot um setback I guess for the soil absorption it's item three I don't have the he have a copy of it yet I thought you might have been leing room for it no I I don't I don't I I checked I I mean I I I didn't have that in my file so yeah okay um but you know there this is what we call maximum feasible compliance so there's an existing septic system here we're going to have to come as close to compliance as possible uh they're not expanding so they they the Board of Health effectively has to allow them to install a system whether there's some variances granted in order to do so depends on the details but the Board of Health has this maximum feasible compliance concept where they can't eliminate your right to a septic if you have an existing one regardless of the conditions so we'll have to comply with all of their requirements yeah when I read it was just mostly a setback thing yeah yeah setback 100 they wanted confirmation that it set back 100 fet from the wentland resource okay basically understand maybe you have to put that on here yeah make it a condition yeah yeah we we I mean I think you could just say we have to comply with any Board of Health regulations we have to get we have to get a permit through them as well so yeah that works other than ask any questions down there no I do have a few questions but um there are things that Jen could answer and Kevin couldn't and just to satisfy my own curiosity but okay no and I understand the septic issue uh but uh he's also correct so no I'm good that's a nice nice change yeah uh probably the the nicest house that I've seen that we're going to raise and replace or potentially raise and replace depending on vote uh on your lock comparison worksheet so the average is 16.53% zero correct is that correct okay um guess I'm not going to ask about IA space maybe because uh might might be a little tight um we had seven letters of support so I'm I'm I'm good thank you very much that is a potential problem down the road though yeah M yep Frank you have anything no no questions just for the record um under law coverage uh why is there no uh effect on the nitrogen load you mentioned there isn't but can you just State for the record wise there's no increase in the number of bedrooms and there's a new title 5 system replacing an a DAT Title 5 system so there'll be no increase in nitrogen and there's no area to put uh for future IIA system even though the Board of Health may require it so I I can't speak to that um I think that you know as I've noted we're going to have to comply with any Board of Health requirements if there's any changes that are necessitated to the plan based on those requirements we'll come back to modify you just figure it out later that's all build the plan as we fly it probably have to put it somewhere else and then pump it back I would imagine that's how it's going to work everybody up here all set M we'll go to the public anybody from the public have any questions on this project look at us moving along did you have any questions no I do not Mark will you help me out oh yeah motion to close Frank second we have a motion to close in a second any other discussion up here we're all said all those in favor of closing I oppos None wow motion to approve with conditions I'll second okay there we go we have a motion in a second all right let's do findings on okay the property's at 134 Edge Water Drive East SEO Shores East Falmouth owned by Paul T Cummings Jr the zoning district is RC they're seeking a special permit under Section 2410 point2 a and 24.3 A4 to raise and rebuild existing non-conforming uh single family dwelling and increased lot coverage uh by structure apparently there's a single family um of a single family 1.5 story dwelling at 1586 ft it's being increased to a single family three-bedroom two story single family dwelling 17711 Square ft um the lot size is 770 7,770 Square ft um the street Frontage is 75 ft it's public right away now as with respect to lot coverage by structure it's currently 20.4 without a special permit uh but it will increase to 22 uh % lot coverage by structure and and the special permit will cover that um the uh lot coverage by Structure Parking and Paving will actually be reduced from 35.5 to 34.5 where the limit is 40 so that's conforming um the uh setbacks uh Charles River and from the street remain essentially the same uh the the uh side setbacks are conforming to the zoning bylaw the height of the proposed building is 33 feet um we had um comments from um the engineering department with respect to storm water being contained on the property and a possible possibility of of application for a driveway permit the Board of Health uh has uh informed us that they are satisfied with the three-bedroom uh the SE excuse me the septic system for a three-bedroom house but they want uh to confirmation that there's 100ft setback from the Wetland um and they ask that you work with the Board of Health to confirm that the Conservation Commission has issued an order of condition on September 11 2024 um the water department suggests that depending upon the location of the septic system there may be a 2in sleeve necessary for the water service that's to be determined um there are no comments from fire building uh planning board or assessors and there are seven letters in support with respect with respect to uh the provisions of 2010. 2A non-conforming structures we make the find it that there will not be that the proposed structure will not be substantially more detrimental to the neighborhood than the existing structure with respect to the conditions for a special permit uh as outlined in section 240 12.1 e we determine that there's adequate that the site is adequate for the proposed use the site is suitable for the proposed use there's no impact on traffic flow and safety no impact on neighborhood visual character views and Vistas there's adequate Provisions for the disposal of sewage um and there's adequate utilities and no impact on affordable housing now with respect to the um special permit under Section 24113 A4 lot coverage um there's the uh lot which allows for lot coverage by 25% lot coverage by structure in an RC District um the size and height of the post structure are relative uh ex to the neighborhood average there's no impact on or Shadows on adjacent properties views and Vistas from public ways do not appear to be affected and with respect to nitrogen and Coastal ements the applicant has assured has presented evidence that there will be the same um number of bedrooms and the there'll be a new title 5 septic system to cover that issue it's a lot yes it is mouthful all right conditions um all boards I read did you read in the in the the concom that the the dock is bigger than what's licensed I did that they have to reapply I didn't read that I didn't read that well he'll just have to comply with concom conditions so I think we can just leave it at that do you agree Norine did you read that yeah so Board of Health concom that will cover the setback if we do it per board um yeah just all boards how long's the dock been there I didn't I don't know doesn't believe in grandfathering 10 years so there's no 10 year okay I I just read her comments that's a building code and that's that's zoning and building different than the what uh than the Wetland regulation yeah cuz I walked down and I didn't see where it looked like it was spliced in any fashion or added on to so I just read the conditions that that concom wrote that was with you know uh we need a driveway permit right I read that in there m can't get a building permit without a driveway permit so there you go work hours work hours yep construction vehicles on site construction vehicles construction materials on site Tony's got them um vehicles and construction materials and so Norine anything uh no shed absent permission though I don't really have space but if the Height's 33 do we have to worry about that do you think yes 35 is no I mean 35 is a okay got two feet all right I think we're good well one of the things you might consider is that your setbacks are your setbacks are fairly they're very close do you want to certify plot plan for the foundation so you want to certify plot plan for the foundation sure we can we can add that on anybody else have anything no Norine you good okay I think we're all set all those in favor oppose none thank you very much they're on a roll moving along again Sly yet he's going to jinx us and now we have 10 Palm Street another good one 10 Palm stre this is application 9824 uh John and Eileen M bacon quiny Massachusetts have applied to the zoning board of appeals B special permit pursuant to sections 240 10.2 a and 240 11.3 A4 of the final zoning bylaw to remove the existing deck and construct an addition exceeding 20% lot coverage by structure property is located at number 10 Palm Street in the marav Vista section of East Falmouth and as for pertinent information it's in an RC zoning District uh it's in a little Pond Coastal Pond overlay District flood zone is ae12 there currently a single family four bedroom um single family dwelling uh at, 141 Square ft The Proposal is for a single family dwelling four bedroom 1770 Square ft the lot is 700 7,200 sare ft in a district that currently requires 40,000 the street Frontage is 90 ft in a district that currently requires 100 feet Palm Street is a public right away at this location the lot coverage by structure exist existing is 19. 46% they uh seeking to increase it to 24.6% the limit is 20 thus the necessity for the um special permit the neighborhood average of lot coverage by structure is 20.11% for the calculated uh worksheet lot coverage by Structure Parking and Paving is 26.7% proposed to increased to 33.2% the limit is 40 so it's conforming the uh non-conformity on the setbacks is the street it is setb 20.1 Ft from the street um and all the other uh setbacks conform the height of the building is 21 ft and the proposal is to continue it is not to increase the height of the building we have a referral from the engineering department they again are concerned that all storm water runoff be contained on site again they've mentioned the possible necessity for a driveway permit and they want us to uh discuss Ed erosion and settlement control um the uh property is on the sewer so we do not have a septic issue the Conservation Commission has issued a negative request for determin of applicability so they're basically satisfied with the situation the water department has requested that the uh water meter be relocated to the inside of the house the assessors have no comment planning board has no comment building department has no comment fire department has no comment we have one letter uh in favor with no objections uh thank you again for the record Kevin Clow uh and I'm before you now representing John and Eileen bacon the owners of 10 Palm Street they are seeking permission to alter the existing non-conforming dwelling on this property 10 Palm is um effectively located centrally in the marav Vista Peninsula as you know this is a very dense residential neighborhood this particular lot is 7200 ft and it is in the RC zoning District presently there's a four bedroom single family dwelling with a footprint of uh 141 s ft as it exists it is non-conforming only with regards to the front yard setback being 20. one uh feet wor 25 is required otherwise conforming to setback and LW coverage requirements the applicant's plans uh are for an addition to the western side of the home which will replace the existing Deck with living space this would include a small covered deck at the front uh a mud room and most importantly a family room the existing room has very limited uh communal space for lack of a better term there's no change to the existing non-conforming setback the lot coverage by structure would increase to 24.6 6% which is allowable by a special permit from this board the bedroom count does not change remains at 4 and which is what is allowed uh within the sew district and the addition does not include any expansion to the second floor space these ceilings are cathedral in the living area so there's no change to the second floor uh living area or bedrooms up there the existing Ridge height is 21 ft 10 in and the proposed Ridge for the addition is 20 ft 2 and2 in so this requires a special permit from you under 10.2 a and 11 .3 A4 under 1040 uh 240 10.2 a pre-existing non-conforming structures may be changed by special permit but you have to find that it's not substantially more detrimental than what exists and in doing so you're asked to consider whether or not there's any new non-conformities whether it impairs views and Vistas and reasonably conforms to the neighborhood here there is no new non-conformity created uh the existing non-conformity is entirely unaffected the proposed law coverage by structure again is 24.6 which is allowable by special permit and structures Paving and parking is 35.2 which is well below the 40% Allowed by right as to the standards of 24 11. 384 um again you're asked to consider the size and height of the structure in relation to the neighborhood the effects of Shadow impacts on views and vistors from public way in effect of nitrogen on Coastal embayments this house is larger than what exists today however it remains in character with the neighborhood marav Vista uh is a dynamic and changing neighborhood with a variety of styles and sizes of homes this design is certainly not out of character uh and in a nice change of pace utilizes the existing structure rather than raising and re building I believe it fits both aesthetically and and Visually there are limited impacts on Shadow or ussing Vistas from a public Way Again The Ridge height remains below the existing uh by about 8 in there's no effec of nitrogen this is on sewer and there's no change to the bedroom count this project represents a significant Improvement for the homeowners provides usable living space for the family there's no adverse effects here and uh nothing above this proposal is substantially more detrimental than what exists today for those reasons I believe this meets all the requirements of 24 10.2 a 11.3 A4 and 12.1 E I would ask that the board Grant the special permit and we of course be happy to address any questions that you might have at this time sounds good Mark um no it's it's nice there're certainly maxing out the uh their property but uh we're in a tasteful way as far as I'm concerned so the neighborhood's changing and there's precious little we can do to stop it if we wanted to um no I have no problem with it it's nice yeah uh same comments I think it's a nice change for the applicant uh did a nice job so I I thought I thought they Blended the the the addition with the existing home really well and and the elevations look good yeah yeah thank you no further question Frank you have anything no I did a site visit and it seems like an appropriate use of the property I agree it looks like a great project you have anything it's not the largest house at number six is at 34.1 so this fits in very nicely it's really a nice addition to the neighborhood now you can say it because this is my last one so any further questions up here before we go to the public all set up here anybody from the public want to talk on this project wow this is a roll motion to close second wow motion to close in a second any further discussion up here no wow all those in favor I opposed none moving along go ahead Scott motion to approve the conditions second that let's do findings Frank okay we have a uh 10 Palm Street um marav Vista is in an RC zoning District it's in a little Pond Coastal overlay District this flood zone is a12 um there's currently a single family dwelling four bedrooms 141 Square ft The Proposal is to increase it to a single family single family dwelling by addition to increase it to 1770 Square fet um there uh it's going to remain a four-bedroom house um the street Frontage is 90 in a district that currently requires 100 ft uh the lot size is 7200 square feet in a lot in a zoning District that currently acquires 40,000 Palm Street is a public right of way at this location the lot coverage by structure at the present time is 19.4 6% it's going to be increased to 24.6% the limit is 20 we have the authority to increase it to no more than 25% by special permit the um neighborhood average for loot coverage by structure is 20.11% per the uh the worksheet lot coverage by Structure Parking and Paving is 26.7% to be increased to 33.2% it's within the 40% limit Allowed by the zoning bylaw the uh non-conforming setback is the distance to the street which is currently 20.1 ft uh in District that requires 25 feet um that nonconformity will remain the um Westerly uh setback which is currently 36.3% is going to be decreased by about 20 to 18.3% because of the addition which is on the westly side of the house the height of the house will not change it's 21 ft uh comments from engineering storm water runoff is to be uh contained on the site they have noted a driveway permit may be necessary and they've asked for the enforcement of ER oan and settlement controls the uh property is served by a sewer so there are no septic system concerns Conservation Commission has issued a reg a negative request for determination of applicability uh water department has asked that the um water meter be re relocated to the basement of the house the assessors have no comment planning board no comment building department no comment fire department no comment there's uh one letter from the neighborhood with no objections with respect to section 2410 point2 a of the zoning bylaw for non-conforming structures we determine that this proposed structure will not be substantially more detrimental to the neighborhood than the existing structure and there will be no new nonconformities the special permit under SEC conditions under Section 240 12.1 e we deter the site is adequate for the proposed use it is suitable for the proposed use there's no impact on traffic flow and safety there's no impact on neighborhood visual visual character views and Vistas there is adequate sewage disposal is determined by the S presence of the sewer there's adequate utilities and has no impact on affordable housing and with respect to the special permit under Section 24113 A4 block coverage by structure up to 25% by special permit we determine that the site site and height of the proposed structure is relates to the neighborhood averages there's U no apparent no testimony suggesting there's impact of Shadows on adjacent property nor views and vistors from public ways being impaired uh and because of the sewer we don't have concern about nitrogen and Coastal embayments and nothing from the public also got one letter of supp support yep so now conditions all Town boards work hours um construction materials and vehicles on site want to Foundation plan because we're getting to 24.6 or yeah we are getting up the yeah yes yep um nothing else yeah Norine you think of anything else did ours I think we're good equipment materials you did that one yeah I think we're good all those in favor opposed you're live Frank BR thanks thank you very much appreciate it hope the rest of your night goes uh as smoothly I wish I was like this every week so do I wishful thinking all right next up we have uh 737 Gord Street vertex Towers got the um file on that would you notice I do not I have I have this that's all I have that's all I have the car the C oh it is in here okay you done with these yep we're done with those let's [Applause] see this is public hearing 91 24 vertex Towers LLC of Providence Rhode Island they've applied to the FMA zoning board of appeals for a special permit and or variant um pursuant to sections 24 6.1b of the zoning board of appeals of the zoning bylaw of the town of felma to construct a 130t tall monopole to be placed inside a fence compound at property known as 737 gford Street in Falmouth Massachusetts the property is located in an AG excuse me an AGB zoning District um it's for a 130 ft monopole and a fenc compound for Wireless Communications purposes the current use of the property is outdoor Self Storage the proposed fence compound is 55 ft by 70 ft the lot is a 8 is 11.6 acres in a um zoning District that currently requires uh one acre basically or 45,000 Square ft there is 40423 Ft of Frontage on gford Street the current requirement is 100 gford Street is a public right of way at this location there was a balloon test in April of 2024 uh where they uh floated a balloon so everybody could take a look at the proposed height of the monopole um that was voluntary although the members I believe all did go to take a look at it um now under Section 246.com require a special permit from the zoning board of appeals the setbacks are not really relevant to this particular um zoning appeal or application uh but um there are a number of um referrals the Cape Cod Commission on August 25th 2024 issued an an approval as a de on a development of regional impact concluding that the benefits of the proposed project are greater than its detriments um we have a referral from the water department with no comment there'll be no water used on the site the building department has no comment however they have asked to uh for an inquiry into a fall zone which I'll leave up to the um applicant to discuss the engineer again uh has cited that storm water runoff should be contained on site and erosion and sediment control provision should be adhered to our Communications Department has no comment our fire department says that the project will require A flammable storage permit um and a tank permit conservation has no comment planning board has no comment the assessors have no comment now for public information we're going to announce that the Telecommunications Act of 1996 applies to this particular project and there are a couple of Provisions that we do not consider under under other projects we'll have to consider here one um if there's any people who have concerns about the environmental effects of radi frequency emissions they must bring those to the Federal Communications Commission uh we have no authority to discuss that issue and finally the Telecommunications Act of 1996 basically says that a local board shall not Grant or deny a permit for a celf cell phone tower which has the effect of prohibiting personal wireless service sounds good okay good evening my name is Francis Parian attorney representing the applicant vertex Towers LLC um as was read in the notice tonight I believe we're here seeking a dimensional variance under your zoning bylaw but your zoning by was a little confusing and I noted the last time a similar facility was proposed in a similar Zone you issued a special permit so I asked for both a variance and a special permit and we can sort this out as we go through the evening um as was read in the notice we filed the application back in March of this year it was immediately referred to the Cape Cod Commission as a development of regional impact we went through several um uh Cape Cod Commission public hearings and and in August got a um uh determination that there was that we complied with all the requirements for development of regional impact and now we're back in front of the um fth zoning board by way of introduction vertex Tower is what we call a wireless infrastructure developer we're not a cell phone company we build Wireless infrastructure uh what's happened in the world is the names you've heard of before in the Wireless World Verizon and TNT and T-Mobile have pretty much gotten out of the real estate business and partner up with folks like vertex to build Wireless infrastructure um we are very active in the Massachusetts and throughout all of New England we've built Towers in um well Fleet other various umbrellas I've been involved in other Towers in the town of Falmouth uh uh there's a tower on Thomas Landers Lane that's been there for about 25 years I'm not as young as I look and I was involved in that uh I was involved in a tower on 28 on uh by the Davy tree um Landscaping facility down by the airport on the mashby line and so um um the vertex team has an immense amount of experience dealing with both the um um the regulatory issues coming up in the town of Falmouth and Cape cud but also inciting these things very appropriately to mitigate public concern and to provide the technical requirements and also be as least impactful as possible in this particular case Verizon Wireless has told us they need a facility at this site Verizon as you're aware is one of the largest telecommunications companies in America they uh they have uh well this is known as Falmouth 7 to them which means they have six other um antenna facilities throughout Falmouth including all the towers I mentioned and other ones throughout Town um and not withstanding that there are still gaps in coverage um this Tower is as you know at the intersection of brick Hill Road in gford uh gford street it's um kind of daging across from the high school which is actually high volume um uh usage for Verizon and what Verizon is incoming is both coverage issues and also capacity issues when you get dense areas like the high school for example where there's a lot of cell phone users they're suffering from capacity issues so even areas where they have some coverage or minimal coverage or even that they had coverage three and four years ago with the newer Technologies the uh the um the higher data speeds that our phones now do the uh availability that our phone phones do you know before we thought they were uh telecommunication devices now they're internet access devices and streaming video and that um technology requires better coverage and uh um U more facilities throughout Falmouth um and and throughout all of Cape Cod um we filed a very extensive application package as required by your zoning byla I'm not going to go through it as also was we also filed even more information with the Cape Cod Commission they give um an incredibly thorough um um analysis with respect to a lot more criteria than the the the town of uh fouth zoning board is charged with they look at impact on um the nitrogen loading and environmental impact they look at uh impact on visibility they look at impact on the neighborhood they look at the benefits to the town they look at the impact on cultural resources and historic resources and U and and made a determination that this facility does not have any significant environmental impact does not have any impact on environmental resources and the great benefit by increased um telecommunications um is um uh certainly um uh a benefit to the town of Falmouth the uh they they engage Wireless consultants and Engineers they have a very large staff of people that looked at this application very carefully to determine um basically the premise that there is a gap in coverage and that there really is no viable alternative given the land use in Falmouth given the um the surrounding neighborhoods um we did an immense amount of research to confirm that there really is nowhere else that we can go um given all the uh uh land use conservation and uh other restrictions that U um impact the development of these type of facilities um I don't think I need to sell telecommunications in general uh you know um over 50% of the commo the Massachusetts have cut the CT and are only using Wireless as their only source of communications over 80% of 911 calls made by um uh cell phones uh and over the last several years as through the pandemic people are working from home educating from home and it just requires better telecommunications throughout Falmouth throughout all of Cape Cod and quite frankly throughout all of of America and and Verizon and folks like vertex are working very hard to fill in those gaps and coverage uh uh the um I think there's actually a recognized need here on Cape Cod over the last several years there have been natural disasters and uh other uh things I think the cape has recognized that there are um um a better need for telecommunications for Public Safety purposes for uh you know commercial cell phone service and also for residential service um I think um and um quite frankly we're working as hard as we can given the length of time that and the amount of expense and the amount of due diligence that we need to do it's it's challenging to to uh um get to all of the cape all at once but uh we're working very diligently um and uh we have several project in development similar to this throughout all of Cape Cod to uh uh um we provideed an immense amount of of data throughout in the application package that was also submitted to the Cape Cod Commission to just show that there's a gap in coverage uh there's uh this is just one slide of many slides that we provided to the town and the Cape Cod Commission showing where the site is and where the gaps are and uh um really what's going on here is that even though that you might somebody might say well my phone works at my house in the area or my phone works along brickk Road um what's happening is this technology is moving away from a mobile technology and more to a Residential Technology and when you go into denser structures like a house or the high school or the commercial properties in the area um those structures become an impediment to the signal as well so even areas where there might be some spotty coverage along brick Hill Road or gford Street there's still demand for better service because when you start going into the the um the area um you know you might get coverage at the um High School football field but once you go inside the building it coverage drops automatically U same thing with the residential neighborhoods in the area as people start using them in their basements and in their um in the interior of their homes as opposed to in their cars it just requires a better telecomunication signal and we submitted an immense amount of data um you know both with statistical uh and uh theoretical analysis based on software analysis but also drive test data that shows where the uh the gaps and coverage are and the or the diminished signals are based on um just the the uh area around uh um brick H and Gord Street um um we also did an immense amount of research to show that there really there's no existing infrastructure um you know we looked out about a mile in each Direction and uh you know there are existing Towers or or cell sites along Route 28 there's existing cell sites along Route 28 which the Main Street area where we are now but uh in that area as you get toward the U what I would call the center of uh fouth there's really no existing infrastructure and no any place else to put antennas like this and when you look at a map like this you see everything to the North and the west of this is um uh very densely populated Den small residential lots that doesn't provide an opportunity for a facility like this and all the to the South and West um is around the pond are conservation restricted with Wetlands restrictions and also deed restrictions that impede the development of this type of property and so we were able to and we looked at probably 30 different properties in the area and submitted all this and showed that there really isn't an alternative to this based on the land use in the area and the U um the availability of land suitable um uh and so we've pred an amense amount of data throughout the application package the lot it's itself is 11 acres it has Frontage on uh gford Street um it's um um it's attractive for us because it's really already been developed there's a large outdoor self storage facility I think the land owner stores boats seasonally and other campers and things like that um in addition it abuts an indoor uh self storage facility so it's more uh commercial and Industrial in nature um there's also a very large power line easement that buy for sex property so uh even though this is not a public utility it's a utility like use up against the existing utility use that uh uh you know kind of um means that it's um more appropriate for this type of uh lot as opposed to the the residential lots to the East and and and north um um there was a question regarding um fall zones I hate to use that word because it imply something that doesn't happen but I think U the uh the town's regulations don't impose what we call a tower height setback a lot of towns do the Cape Cod Commission actually requires a 125% tower height setback that we be more than 125% of the height of the Tower from all the budding property lines and this site amply meets it um um because of the size of the lot and the location of the pro uh the facility in the lot um the facility itself is very similar to other similar type facilities it's just a small small fenced in compound about 2700 Square ft um the good thing is is as technology evolves the groundbased equipment is getting smaller and smaller and they go in smaller type they don't go in like big shelters like we used to build they go in smaller like a refrigerator size cabinet so there'll be a couple of small cabinets on some uhu small concrete foundations but for the most part um it's a uh very non-invasive especially going on an area that's already pretty much developed the lot itself the area the exact area where we are has been previously developed and utilized by the landlords so we're not taking down uh any significant existing vegetation and in addition other than a small foundation for the tower and some small concrete pads for the equipment there's no um significant increase in dimin in um impervious surface so storm water runoff is uh very easily contained within the compound and the surrounding area without any kind of erosion troll or any kind of impact on AB buding properties the tower itself is a monopole it's be 130 feet tall on which Verizon will attach antennas and we also make sure that we build it with the structural integrity and the height for multiple telecommunications companies so that uh um it's really hard to get everybody Verizon and T-Mobile and AT&T to all focus on fouth in this area fouth at the same time but we build facilities with the forethought to make sure that we build them of the height and structural integrity to uh uh um uh accommodate multiple telecommunications companies which is again another requirement of the Cape Cod commission's regulations with respect to these type of facilities um the thing U uh these facilities are very low powerered facilities they're not designed to cover all of Falmouth just uh you know a very amorphous smile in each Direction um and the reason for that it's a two-way communication your cell phone is talking to the nearest antenna and you're holding up to your head like this this is a powered communication the return communication is low powerered so they routinely broadcast out about 100 Watts uh as by comparison um WBZ in Boston one of the first AM radio stations in the United States um is designed to cover all of Eastern Massachusetts I think you can get East you can get WBZ down here in FMA that broadcasts out of 50,000 Watts this facility broadcasts out about 100 watts to provide coverage for a very small area um and uh um and there's ample examples of of facilities in fouth throughout all the Cape Cod throughout all the Comm of Massachusetts to show that these facilities routinely are significantly in much lower than appal FCC limits with respect to radio frequency emissions U and what this is really designed to do is cover provide great coverage to the um the the neighborhood um to the east and north of of U gford Street the high school area going up towards other existing facilities on top Thomas Landers Road and uh um and then uh connecting up with sites already down in the the lower 28 and the Main Street area of Falmouth um as was noted we um we put up a balloon I notified noren I know the board got notied I put it out of the paper we notified all the abutters who were going to get notice of this hearing tonight uh and uh um to show what the visibility or more importantly the lack of visibility was uh uh and I'm just going to try to skip to that if I can figure out how to do it I think those would be very helpful we we engage Engineers to uh um to take this they certify that the height of the balloon is 130 ft it's actually a little higher than 130 ft the string is 130 ft so the balloon's up about 135 ft U and then they can just drive around and show where there's visibility or more importantly where there's no visibility um and given um you all of the conservation land to the West there's there's really no need to go out there um the town has a uh a transfer facility of some sort across the street but uh really no impact and what these circles show is where I have photographs of where the tower was visible as noted by Green where there's some partial visibility through the trees as noted by yellow and then as no visibility as noted by uh the red and where there's some visibility we ask the engineers to uh do photo simulations to show what it's going to look like that they can do uh very accurate Renditions so I'm just going to it looks like um uh photos 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 are the closest and the most visible so we'll just kind of jump to those um this is taken from right at gford Street um looking in the uh looking into the access driveway to the lot and the South storage facility you can see the balloon over the trees and we did this back in April before the leaves came on the trees so um you know as the leaves come on it'll U substantially mitigate the view of the tower but that's really what it looks like kind of behind the trees there of of minimal visual impact um farther down gford street um to the South looking North past the self storage facility the balloon is visible but there's a lot of other things going on and uh you know that's what it will look like from gford street but as you can imagine you're kind of in a tunnel there and as you go off either to the west or the East you you you lose visibility by existing vegetation um similarly farther down closer to a uh um the nearest residential neighborhood to the South um I think you're getting now about uh uh 3/4 a mile away there's some visibility but as you see it starts to blend in with all the other utility infrastructure the poles and things like that um this is taken from a little bit closer right across from the self Sor facility and again you know taking advantage of existing tree canopy um uh and then the only other place that it was um significantly visible was right at the um self storage facility the same land owner um and uh um and what this shows is not on day one but at full buildout we anticipate that AT&T and Verizon and T-Mobile and other telecommunications companies so at full buildout that's what it'll look like in an area that's really already industrially and commercially developed so I think it uh you know from a um visibility standpoint we picked a pretty appropriate location and this is just taken from the uh high school parking lot um um looking across back towards um the facility and again there's some visibility but uh um you know the other thing you'll notice is that there's a substantial power line easement that comes across here that also has some visibility along um brick road that uh so it kind of Blends in with that as much as possible uh this is from the uh uh the football field or maybe the the the um one of the fields over there and again some visibility in the background but uh given all the other tall structures the utility poles that are already there it's of minimal visual impact and uh um and and all the other places along gford Street along uh farther down gford street in the residential neighborhoods to the east um and also along this is taking down brick Hill Road um from the U West looking East there's just no visibility um I'm sure you read it I submitted a 30-page memorandum going through all the requirements for a zoning variance um um um for a facility like this that there's got to be something specific to this property uh and that there's a hardship and that uh desirable relief can be granted without um substantial detriment to the public good um given the need for better telecommunications given the lack of Alternatives given the fact that this particular faite um meets the area uh that the coverage dcor of Verizon and multiple telecommunications companies um um that's really the uniqueness that uh um uh satisfies the unique uh the the the topography and the area in general the lack of other alternatives for from a land use perspective is really what makes this property so unique that it satisfies the variance criteria um and uh um the need to close the gap in coverage creates the hardship we really can't go anywhere else uh if there were tall structures around if there were other Towers if that someone else had built Verizon would have looked at that but because there's nothing tall the area that's suitable for that type of antenna structure um that's really the hardship that uh um um uh satisfies the variance criteria and certainly better telecommunications enhances uh Public Safety enhances serves the public good I'm betting pretty much everybody in the room has a cell phone they've struggled with it at times um especially during the summer months when demand is greater in a place like fouth U so uh certainly the the the the the increase in telecommunications and the increase in the public safety benefit of telecommunications um uh um does not derogate from the bylaw but certainly provides U reason to Grant the variance um um I you know like I said I wasn't sure whether I needed a special permit so we asked for it um uh but it's uh this is um from a special permit perspective quite easy there's really no water no sewer it's an unmanned facility so there's no traffic there'll be about a month's worth of construction um and then somebody might come byy once a month in a pickup truck to make sure that the fence is still intact but all the electronics are remotely monitored all the uh uh the antennas can actually be tweaked if necessary um remotely so uh um there's really no traffic or impact on the the land or the neighborhood at all um um and uh uh it certainly complies with all the U other requirements of owning bylaw with respect to setbacks and things like that um and as the the board mentioned the federal government is very involved in telecommunications infrastructure development um they pass laws that um encourage this type of development they um you know they they want to encourage multiple telecommunication companies not just Verizon but other telecommunication companies to have the ability to to build networks in places like fouth um and basically what the law says is um you don't have to say say yes but you can't say no without sufficient reason um you can't say we don't like it um and and when you look at this particular facility the minimal visual impact the Industrial Area that it surrounds the uh the existing power line easement there's really no reason to say no uh uh that you know it really doesn't have an impact on the neighborhood doesn't have an impact on on any of the uh um traffic or anything like that that would have it um and so the the um the and there's been an immense amount of case law both involving facilities on Cape Cod and U throughout the Commonwealth and throughout the United States just trying to um again encourage this without forcing people to say yes uh so with that I would respectfully request that the board Grant the requested variance if they think I need a special permit grant that as well uh so that we can move forward uh we've already got our Cape Cod Commission approval after extensive review um and uh I understand we got to get some um um fuel permits from the the town but those are usually quite ministerial and we can get those um and uh we're uh um given the uh the lack of winter on Cape godod we might be able to start building this as early as the first quarter of next year so we just like to move forward as best we can true that we still have summer here don't we yes exactly we do a lot of work in New Hampshire where we can't do anything in uh um after October and uh so it's it's difficult but uh down here it's it's a lot easier to build year round sounds good thank you questions from the board Mark you want to start off uh there's a a significant lack of coverage at the uh lower end of brick Kill Road and and and into West felmet that's actually uh been a public safety issue of people with cell phones unable to uh call ambulances that's if the West found the fire station's open another problem uh H how much is this going to improve that uh let me jump to that slide if any um it it pretty much provided how do I do this um provided coverage uh going down brick Kil road all the way to Route 28 to connect up with a shorter facility uh on um Route 28 going towards the um the east side of Falmouth and then also back towards 28 um um uh uh and then also down gford street connecting with sites down here so this is really the area that's going to provide much better coverage uh um so um I'll also tell the board and you're probably aware we have another site in process in North fouth up by Old Silver Beach and that um I came to you back in June uh you refer to the Cape Cod Commission we just got approved by the Cape Cod Commission um last week and we'll be coming back to the zoning board I uh nor can squeeze me in in December or January uh I know you guys are incredibly busy uh uh and and that's going to kind of uh you know fill in gaps in 28 and farther north into North fouth by the old Silver Beach neighborhood as well you kind of didn't answer my question you didn't you left off West fouth there's a what about a West Falmouth you know in the neighborhood of chapoy and around the fire station down the bottom of brick Hill Road I'm just not 130t Tower uh I'm I mean I'm sure you're aware of the areas in town that are that uh where cell phones drop off and yes it's and and and I have heard of people who have been unable to call ambulances on their cell phones and we are working as best we can there are gaps all over valet there's gaps all over Cape Cod that area is a more significant challenge because there aren't any large Lots down that way we're working on it but we don't have a solution yet uh um the um um the Cape Cod Commission has an immense amount of regulations that we need to comply with and they're almost um um very challenging in denser more residential neighborhoods um like I said we were able to find something in North fouth that was a large lot that we'll be in front of you guys next month on um but that West area of fouth um West fouth is just uh we're working on it but it's we don't have a solution yet so uh put a number on it the zero Improvement what's that to put a number on it Z think this this is not going to provide much additional benefit to the area west of 28 I I don't think the one at the church is going to either uh probably not you know uh if anyone's got any suggestions I live right where we talking about so right I I I understand that it's a um um you got to imagine how difficult it is in neighborhoods like that um we um um I I'll also tell you um uh it to stand here probably takes two years uh given the amount of due diligence that we need to do um given the amount you know the Cape Cod Commission is both a lengthy and Incredibly expensive process they look at a lot of things um hyper critically in our mind uh uh it it kind of slows things down a little bit um and uh um but it's as the Cape Cod Commission says the cost of doing business on Cape Cod um so we're doing the best we can but it's certainly a challenge just and for my own edification um I know a few people that actually are in this business and and when this was in its infancy they used to use uh like small repeaters and church Steeples and and such is that still viable cuz I I know it's a real problem there and it's a public safety issue heaped on top of another issue we have there with the fire station if if you look at this map that I have right here the little black dots are what we call small cells and they're existing facilities utilized by um Verizon in dense areas to provide not so much Capac uh coverage but capacity issues there are small cells like for example where we are right now this is a very dense commercial area um not a lot of Big Lots you're not going to build 150t Tower anywhere near downtown Falmouth so there are a series of small cells that provide uh provide a form of coverage but it's really a capacity issue as you can imagine during the summer months just a very densely populated area with a high demand they're the small cells aren't designed to cover large areas they're designed to supplement existing networks um uh and like for example we going to talk about North fouth next month um there's coverage in the parking lot of the uh Old Silver Beach beach uh but because there's a small cell right in the parking lot but it doesn't provide coverage across the street or down the street which is why we're proposing a tower for the uh the entire neighborhood um it's U small cells are kind of like a Band-Aid on a much bigger problem but uh U uh and they're not designed to cover large areas because they're way below the tree canopy they're on sometimes on telephone poles or rooftops or things like that U um so uh it's a solution to a limited problem but uh for that West area we're still looking for something a larger lot that we can build a taller Tower well there's certainly a need and as I said I I I know it's a a a public safety issue especially if you're the one that's having the heart attack but uh I wonder if they couldn't put one on top of the fire station what I was just thinking yeah we can look at it talk to the fire chief um um we've done other I did one in Truro several years ago I think I did one in East several years ago um so fire stations are um are um those weren't in very doable yeah they're they're doable depending on the the neighborhood surrounding it that's that's uh if sometimes fire hill behind this fire station goes up in a pretty steep hill Telegraph Hill yeah yeah and there's a water tower up there I I just know it's it's it's a serious issue and uh I mean it's an inconvenience if it's just a cell phone call but when it's an emergency call um obviously has more weight okay good Scott you have anything yeah uh so on the 130 foot monopole you have different providers that probably want be at different heights I thought Norine when we approve the one up at Highfield we had asked for um fam with police or fire to potentially have have access to the pole at some elevation I is that something that you would provide to uh public health and safety potentially through the fire or Police Department to mount something the that would not impede right any of your uh you know you need a return on your investment yeah the um um I'll tell you that's kind of a win-win for us because um the type of antennas that Public Safety uses are a lot different than the type of antennas that Verizon and other commercial carriers use they're much lighter they take up less space um so um if you were to put a condition that we would accommodate the reasonable requirements I use the word reasonable uh for police and fire we'd certainly do that great thank you Frank uh Mr paresi uh the comment from The Building Commissioner he he had no objection to this project but I think he would like a plan showing the fall zone if you could just submit one there I don't think it's a requirement of the zoning board but that's what he has asked for that's the way I interpreted it anyways so I think on sheets C1 and C2 um did pretty clearly depict well fine so long as I thought we had um and and um again I don't like to use word fall zone because it implies something that doesn't happen but I think that the cape God commission um imposes a 125% which is unusually you most towns do 100% uh uh but and so I think we provided that in the plans I don't have I just brought it up because it's in his comments that's all I'm not I think noran's right it's there so um now you have asked for a um variance and also a special permit and the special permit provision of the zoning bylaw is 240 section 5.1 C2 now let me just back up our zoning bylaw says that if you look at the if you look at the permitted uses if it's not a permitted use then it's a prohibited use but section uh five and it doesn't mention monopoles by the way but it mentions in 6 uh 1B it mentions TV and radio antennas but under uh 245.000 C2 this board May by special permit allow a prohibited use if it closely resembles a neighborhood impact a byright use or special permanent use in the district so if a television and radio antenna is a permitted use in the district we have the authority to Grant a special permit for a monopole under 5.1 C2 but we'd like you to discuss how it closely resembles a permitted use in a district so we can make a finding um the zoning ordinance with respect to this Zone says that radio and television antennas not exceeding 50 ft are a permitted use by right right so it's just a function of the height which is why I asked the height variance in addition um there um there's another provision that says that radio and television antennas subject to um Master laws 40a Section 3 are permitted and those are actually amateur like ham radio type antennas which is a very similar use they just broadcast at a different frequency than us so uh um um I actually think you're uh the um the tower that we have proposed at in North fouth clearly is a permit it's in a residential Zone not an agriculture Zone but that's a permitted use subject to special permit so that's all I need I didn't need a dimensional variance there so it's I think your bylaw is a little but you're in it's this is in an agricultural this is in an agricultural Zone a difference right I understand that I think I quite frankly I think your bylaw is confused we're we know that and because it's allowed we know that very well it's allowed in a residential Zone um with a special permit and uh in this case anything under 50 ft is allowed in a special permit but quite frankly agricultural Lots tend to be larger lots and so uh lending itself more to this type of facility so I would argue that it is a permitted use such as special permit I'll also note that the last time and I think it was several years ago um uh this board had a identical application in a AGB Zone it um granted a special permit so I I'm not sure if the bylaw Chang something that but uh um I don't really care well we can this board has the authority to Grant a special permit um so long as the proposed use closely resembles one that's by right in the district and I think you've kind of answered that now a television antenna is permitted in the district yeah up to a certain height so uh uh then you we need a variance for the height right to go over the 50 ft that's why I applied for the variance and maybe you grant both a special permit for the use and then the height variance just to bootstrap and suspenders um um you know it uh um the you know the Cape Cod Commission doesn't they look at compliance with your zoning bylaw but they look at things more holistically and uh is it appropriate for this particular location okay thank you Tony I just out of curiosity um why is there never an effort to disguise these holes I mean yes they you the photographs show that they kind of blend in in places like that but when you're going to get into the North fouth Area you're not going to disguise 130 ft uh very well but why why don't you make an effort to disguise these walls um somebody once told me in your position you can't put lipstick on a pig and uh I took offense to that but it's kind of sort of true the more you try to disguise them the more you call attention to them uh uh I actually had a town out in western Mass um require me to make it look like a fake pine tree and it can never look like a fake pine tree like your artificial Christmas tree because the branches can't go out too far or else they start to wilt so really looks like a giant toilet bowl brush or a pipe cleaner and um and I told them this and I provided photo Sims to this uh and and then we built it and they said take the branches off that's the stupidest thing I've ever seen and by then we've already designed it and we can't do it so the simple answer is you can't disguise it you know um I can make it look like whatever I can paint it pink um there's no no no I'm I it's a serious it's a serious question they you're going to be asking for something coming up not not part of this discussion so I'm asking the question now so for thought process and the answer is you cannot disguise this to blend in it is just going to be 130 ft right and it's going to be ugly and it's just going to be there uh 130 ft there wherever it is I take offense to the word ugly that's a joke uh uh beauty is an eye of the holder and uh when I drive around I drive around for a living I come to places like like cape cot I go to places where they have no coverage whatsoever and I'm just driving looking for a cell signal so I can stop and uh call my wife and call my office and all that uh um you know I think the the um the Cape Cod Commission I'm actually talking to Cape Cod Commission about revising their regulations because they were designed to impede and now everybody wants it and you know you um and I can't build them fast enough and um and yet we're trying to hide them it it it's kind of contrary to the mission uh and but but to answer your question um the more we try the worse it looks and I can give you lots of examples uh um uh you know I I built a 150ft silo in Connecticut and I'd hate to tell you what it looks like it's a giant phallic symbol in the middle of Connecticut it's it's just the stupidest thing you've ever seen because it's you know it's it's a monstrosity U so let me just Madam chair through you to our Z administrator what is our purview here what are we even considering about this I mean if uh the FCC prohibits us from saying no without a valid reason why are we even bothering hearing because he still requires relief he still requires relief procedural yeah so it's simply procedural so yeah you're limited in saying no but he still needs your permission to go forward and we have no reason to say no correct so why don't we just close it and say yes well I think you need to hear if there's any of you know what um um if if we were in a public park or next to a public park or next a historic resource uh or um you know along the coast where there's Scenic value those are instances where you might have proper authority to say no um um the uh the one big case in Massachusetts was built on the top of a hill and on one side of the hill was a daycare center on the other side of Hill was an elementary school and it was just like in the middle of the two and um and that town was allowed to say no in this particular case we're on an 11 acre lot it's already used for outdoor storage we're next to a power line easement that's not going away so it it limit your ability to say no but uh so I don't want to say you have to say yes but the federal law says you can't say no without sufficient reason and and that's really and and noran's right I still need to get the variance from you or the special permit to move forward uh but um the the federal government is just trying to channel discussion a little bit thank you we've all grown up with power lines and no one ever asked them to be pretty did they right right uh what's the maintenance plan um these towers are um you know someone comes by like once a month to check on it the equipment is remotely monitored it's remotely monitored for uh heat and smoke and things like that uh we don't have instances like that but uh uh uh um really the biggest issue we have is trees in the area falling on the fence and uh U uh we have a big issue with people trying to steal copper and and so just main maintaining the Integrity of the fence is our biggest concern U the towers themselves are designed so you can't climb it um the first 20 ft have no climbing ability at all so you'd have to bring at least a 20 foot ladder um and then there are specific climbing pegs and uh only authorized people have the specific pegs for the uh the climbing so it's designed to be non-climb but uh U so from a maintenance perspective it's really just the Integrity of the fence okay great any other questions up here before we go to the public good any any body from the public come on up you just need your name and address please corner to okay my name is Teresa Hogan without the H um 500 T ticket highway so you mention Mr Duffy that the fire department wanted them to have a flammable storage box I just want to know what is that and does every poll that goes up get one of those you can give the brief answer there will be a generator on site the generator will have a propane tank want to come around just there will be a generator on site that doesn't run constantly it's like the third source of power the first source of power is primary power second source of power we back up batteries and in extent of a long-term power fail there'll be a generator and that generator requires Fuel and so we just got to get the fire chief to approve the U design of the tank El set come on up good evening Kristen gonzale 365 brick Hill Road um listening to Mr Duffy I understand there's some questions that I can't ask so I'm looking just for some advice um obviously I have health implication questions and I don't know who to address to I'm a homeowner I'm a mom and I have some concerns about the tower um my other thing that I wanted to talk about was that it is are agriculturally zoned over there and I did read and it is prohibited in that area as you said you're can ask for a variance and then I did find it interesting that you had no viewpoints from where our residential area is because I have pictures um so nobody took pictures from The Brick Kil road side I have some pictures we didn't see it Bri he's got to come oh it's on TV I I have some pictures in Brick I can show them but we didn't see it along brick Hill Road other than right at the power line he's remember you were looking at the power lines as well h I took it right from my driveway and I and I can see it um um with respect to health the federal government just says that you can't make your decisions based on the perceived health effects however I can answer the question U and I think it's a it's a good question we're we're also concerned with health this is a technology that we've been living with for over a hundred years in fact one of the first radio communications was done on Cape Cod at Marcone beach in Wellfleet uh where I just built a tower um three years ago um just off the beach by the bike path um um it's the same type of technology that we've been using throughout all of fouth on six other sites in Falmouth and then through the small cell technology at uh at probably another 20 locations throughout fouth um your zoning bylaw actually requires us to rule out existing structures like church Steeples so if there was a church Steele in the area and I've done many Church stles on Cape Cod along Route 6A um um I'll tell you uh I go to church in Rhode Island that has 150 foot steeple and we were able to put two antennas in two sets of antennas two different telun telecommunication companies in that and without um any impact on the church goers there's an elementary school a church elementary school right next door so it's a technology there's Wi-Fi in this building right now there's uh uh you know people have baby monitors to to monitor their child in their crib it's the the same technology just different uh frequency bands and uh we've been living with it very safely and successfully for over 100 Years thank you did you get your questions answered what I say is not going to matter unfortunately okay well it's as I mentioned it's the Federal Communication Commission has reserved exclusive jurisdiction over those issues and I can't tell you how to get in touch with them because I never have so okay okay so are are you maintaining to us that there's no danger from EMF uh I I'm a lawyer um uh all I know is that there be like a yes or no the FCC has appical limits the FCC has jurisdiction over this they've set appical exposure limits and as long as the equipment is operating um in it's its required frequencies which it's very heavily regulated and at The Limited power puts it's well under Apple FCC regulations with respect to that that that really wasn't my question uh I drive around for a living and I talk on my cell phone eight hours a day uh uh I believe it's safe I'm not an authority I'm I'm just I I I I absolutely believe there is but I mean it's not that we can do anything about it there's certainly an increased amount of brain cancers in children and I actually wear a Sean pennant and uh I sleep so much better um and uh I just think it's another case where the governments dropped the ball and uh Emerson said in the beginning of the 20th century uh he think like Emerson Electric uh um he said that uh he absolutely noticed that uh it was making the population stupid there I mean that's not an exact quote but uh anyway I just I just will note your non-answer do you have any other questions ma'am thank you thank you anybody else from the public so I think we any any other further questions no I guess I can just help the board I've been working on cell towers for probably not quite as long as Mr pzy but over 20 years and I will tell you in the other community we Face the same issues same questions about health issues and the federal government has reserved exclusive authority to determine whether there's a health issue or not so while I understand that people are concerned and we all need to be concerned about our environment what they're primarily telling you is that the area where you would face the greatest concern is if you are right up against one of those antennas for some period of time so that's why those areas are heavily fenced and regulated and you can't get up there because they don't want people right next to the antenna but that's that's the heavy exposure not that we can do anything about it but I mean I I just have to be honest with you I trust the FCC about as much as I trust the FBI and the CDC but they they've essentially maintained that it's their jurisdiction so absolutely it is so directed got to love him never holds back that's why we love him anyway we're all set up here yes you going to help me out Mark I have motion to close second it any further discussion up here all those in favor of closing I opposed none motion to approve conditions variances whatever else Frank would have to put together on this one yeah Norine help us through the should we do special permit you're going to do special permit and a variance of the special permit I I think it makes best sense just to give them relief that covers everything and that way there's not a problem okay e all of the above so you've made a motion for a special permit with a variance and I'll I'll second it so we have a motion now we have to do findings well this is difficult cuz we haven't done one of these before before at least I haven't in a long time um I'm glad to help you you want Norine to do it no we'll give it a try here it's an it's an an AGB District I think what you'll do is you'll draft the decision and then we'll all review it for for accuracy correct if you like yeah all right so they've asked for a special permit Andor a variance citing sections 246.at zoning bylaw for 130 ft monopole with a fenced compound at 737 gford Street in Felman current use of the property is an outdoor self storage facility the comp the fence compound will be 50 ft by 70 ft um the site of the the lot is 11.6 Acres uh Street Frontage is 423 ft both comply with the zoning bylaw uh gin street is a public right of way there was a balloon test for visibility purpose visibility demonstration conducted in April of 2024 um now section uh 24 6.1b of the FMA zoning bylaw provides that in an agricultural District a TV radio antenna uh in excess of 50 ft requires a special permit from the zba now uh there's a further section to be read in conjunction with that section 245.20 for a prohibited use if it if the use closely resembles in the neighbor its impact in the neighborhood a byright or special permit use in the district um and then there is a provision for variance which we'll get into later um so we're going under 61b though right 61b so under 61b uh we Grant a special permit citing our Authority Under section 2 45.1 C2 to Grant special permit for a 130 ft telecommunications monopole uh which we find to be uh closely resembling um a television or radio antenna uh in its impact on the neighborhood that's the Authority for granting the special permit now they need further with a special permit we find that the site as required by section 240 12.1 e we find that the site is adequate for the proposed use the site is suitable for the proposed use there's no impact on traffic flow and safety uh no impact on on neighborhood Vis uh visual characters views of this there there's no issues with sew sewage disposal there's adequate utilities and there's no impact on um affordable housing the uh planning board has issued a site plan review uh with approval now they uh we also make the following findings that the the um 130ft monopole will enhance telecommunication service in town it will be unmanned there'll be no impact on traffic there's a power line easement adjacent to the property which prevents further useful development uh the 130 ft is necessary for adequate area coverage and to comply with Federal Regulations now the variance we're is granting a dimensional variance uh to allow a the monopo in excess of 50 feet to the to the height of 130 feet uh we can make the finding that there are special circumstances relating to this property particularly the topography its location um and its proximity to the utility easement which which justifies an easement um because of these conditions greatly generally affect this particular parcel and not the and not the zoning District that a little literal enforcement would create a hardship Financial or otherwise and that the variance may be granted without substantial detriment to the public good uh or substantially derogating from the intent and purposes of the F zoning bylaw so therefore we Grant the special permit and the requested variance that was a lot so those are our findings you findings uh the property is going to be unmanned uh periodic maintenance visits no water sewer fenced yeah access off Gord um they are willing to provide for um collocation or access by the town um emergency 911 uh opportunity for uh four carriers on the pole uh signage and fencing to comply with local state and federal regulations uh there was no FAA required review groundbased equipment cabinets we've got concrete pad 45x 60t com fence compound ice Bridge from Pole to equipment cabinets uh FCC licensed yeah okay um the existing Topography is 35 ft so it's a fairly level lot access is via a 15t wide access easement over an existing driveway they're going to have a 6 tall chain link fence compound with crushed stone um Verizon's proposing a propane storage tank uh they will require fire department approval um that's good and the flame box with the fire department to right M and the flame box condition oh the condition here so now conditions there we go flame box um per plan per plan yeah per plan any board comments y as Nori mentioned potential fire and safety 911 as long as it doesn't impede business plan right for the donut yes any other conditions down there uh I think the only other one that seems to be a regional issue are the off sprays they seem to be very attracted to the towers so for all of our Towers we have osy prohibition so if there's any nesting that occurs during the a season we require that the nests not be disturbed until the season's over so I will tell you Ospreys are the bane of our existence uh um there's a lot of federal regulation um that overrides what the town does but they're far more stringent than what you would impose and uh uh uh I the the tech show up they see an osprey and they leave uh it's it's a problem and you're right it's a u they come back later for fried eggs exactly I think all set right so now we're going to vote to approve the special permit and VAR and the variance all in one vote yes everybody all set with that one vote including special you want to pick a date for a review or do you want me to just send it out to everybody for any comments what's your that's fine that way don't you yeah that covered everything I think okay yeah yeah you're so used to doing these nor we're sure it'll be perfect okay so all those in favor I opposed none thank you very much thank you sir good luck with the out really chair we recommending a five minute stretch two minut let's take a five minute break all right now we have zero have to hit that thing again Broken Bow okay this is um but no we got a first we're going to have Scott oh okay Madam chair I'd like to make a motion I move that The fance Zing board of appeals has the grounds to declare that a denial or approval with conditions of the application is consistent with local needs as defined in general laws chapter 40b sections 20- 23 and 760 CMR 56.3 1A and 3A because the town subsidized house inventory exceeds 10% and further under 760 CMR 56.0 31b and four for municipal compliance with its approved housing production plan and to provide the requisite 15-day written notice following tonight's hearing to the applicant and to the executive office of Housing and livable communities this the motion so moved once the motion is moved the chair shall offer the applicant the opport Unity to proceeded Nick are you going to proceed I am going to proceed yes thank you okay my name is sharpened for you pardon me and we have our teeth sharpened for you no this is application 100 of the Year 2024 Broken Bow residences LLC they've applied to the found Zing board of appeals for a comprehensive permit pursuant to chapter 40b of the Massachusetts general laws to conduct 16 units throughout four duplex buildings and one multi family or multi-unit building containing eight units four units will be affordable the subject property is on Broken Bow Lane in East fouth the there's no number for the property uh so we refer it to in our record as zero Broken Bow Lane the um property uh is Broken Bow residences is a limited dividend organization uh this is an application under Massachusetts general laws chapter 40b there is Massachusetts Housing Finance Agency site approval letter issued to the town of Falmouth on September 16 2024 which authorizes this board to go ahead and hear a comprehensive permit application property lies in two zoning districts it's partially in an agricultural B zoning district and it's partially in a general residence zoning District the property is 69,500 square ft the a AGB or agricultural be zoning District the minimum is 40,000 sare ft the lot is larger than both uh the current use of the property is vacant land so there's no reported use of the property the property has 317.50 feet of Frontage on broken B Lane and the minimum requirement is 100 ft broken B Lane is a private right of way we have uh a number of comments uh the engineering department has sent us uh a referral with approximately 17 pages of comments which I won't go through but I expect Mr will address them in his presentation um they note that there will be private trash pickup and recycling pickup there'll be private snow re snow removal as this is not a not to be a town way um the Board of Health uh says that the proposed septic system appears to be suitable at this time we also have information from the uh Wastewater Department that this site may be sewered as early as 2027 um fire department has no comment the assessors have no comment the planning board notes that they do not like the architectural features of the proposed buildings they are concerned about the apparent lack of tenant storage facilities and they note that the market rate rent the rent for market rate units appears High um as I said this is in the Great Pond sewer phase one um and that's comments to get started go ahead Nick for the record I'm Nick Marion representing the owner of this project and I won't repeat what Frank had to say he did a very good job of outlining the general parameters of the project but I'll get into some specifics here so this this uh plan here lays out the layout of the buildings this is the 8 unit uh Studio building a duplex two bedroom units I'm sorry that's a three-bedroom unit building two bedroom two bedroom and two bedrooms in those buildings we have two points of Access One off broken B Lane in this area and one off Broken Bow laying in that area the dumpster which will be fenced in will be in this location this is the leeching field which will be covered with it be landscaped when it's finished um we adequate parking uh we meet the requirements for parking and I'm going to go into the drainage [Applause] next could you just make a statement about what's required for parking and what you have so the people here in the room at home okay I don't understand so the the um the studio units require one and a half spaces per unit and the two and three bedroom units require two spaces per unit so the parking requirements are 28 spaces we're showing 32 we have four handicap spaces that we spread throughout the project they're shown on here already um I'm sorry three three handicap spaces is what we're showing so four guest spots for the entire development yes a lot of people I think the one and a half spaces for a studio unit is is strong so this is the drainage plan and utility plan the the project drains presently towards the leeching the the catch Basin the the Basin here we also have so we're going to continue to grade it that way so that the flow will be towards the detention Basin and there's a catch Basin at this point to pick up what doesn't flow to that this man holes and underground the whole system is underground except when we get down here then it flows out to the state property which is the state owns this piece here that goes out to Route 28 and it's currently a drainage for them for Route 28 and because we already drained there we're allowed to continue to drain there the uh mailbox location will be right here at the entrance to the project this is a garage uh that the owners will use for maintenance materials and for storage for Studio units that exceed uh the studio storage space on the end of the building there will also be a laundry room in the end of that building the two and three bedroom units have their own laundries and have full basements for storage this is a perspective plan of the three-bedroom unit to give you the the so you can see the second floor where the third bedroom is there's two bedrooms on the first floor and there the third bedrooms on the second floor there's only one building like this where's the storage in that one I'm sorry where's the storage for the three bedrooms in the basement [Applause] this is the two bedroom building which is basically the same building with out the second floor so it's just two bedrooms on one floor they also have basements and the studio building has eight units four in each floor this is a storage building off the end storage for St storage units the first floor units all have direct access handicap wheelchair access to them and that building is approximately the size of the um sober house that's across the street it's like a big Colonial so I will uh ask the board if they have any questions at this point and I'll address them that that's the entire present it gives the outline of what we need what else would you ask questions I'll be happy to answer them okay Mark um have you seen the uh these pictures submitted by Miss Park I have yes um and and I do know Miss parks and uh Miss Parks uh and I recall years ago when she purchased this house she mentioned this issue granted I mean you don't own the road but it certainly appears from the picture uh that uh this uh issue involves your property uh do you have any plans to to mitigate this or deal with this uh it's it's an existing condition that I'm aware of I've spoken with the owners and they've authorized me to talk to the engineers to see if there's any way we can pick up some of that and move it without drainage come onto your property now uh in this picture where that actual puddle is that's that's your property right there is it not no I don't I don't I think most of what you're looking at is right in here in this corner yeah yeah that certainly appears and then you have uh notations there of you know possible encroachments so I mean just looking at this it's certainly appears that this is your problem as well um so you really don't have any um you're going to look into it yeah if if there's any way we can incorporate that in our drainage we we're going to do what we can it certainly going to be and I don't know you know what kind of a storm caused this and to be honest with you you know I don't go down there much and and not many people do but uh um it certainly certainly seems to yeah um and you'll have ample opportunity to come up and speak I don't know when that's up to the chair but um like I said this I I know that this issue has has existed for 10 years anyway or close to it I'm sure um and uh I think um you know if you intend to develop this um I mean you do front on it and um it's certainly incumbent on you to do at least something about not and we plan to I just can't answer specifically because since it came up a couple weeks ago in a site meeting that we had I spoke to the engineers and they said they'd have to recalculate the drainage because it's going to add more drainage to our Basin but I mean it's it's it's soend it's so obvious and I'm sure you didn't just buy this property last week um I'm just it it seems that there's no real indication here I mean it seems that it should have been part of your planning already is all I'm stating and um I'm certainly looking for you to uh at least um include something and that's that uh and uh we uh I I don't know what the rents are the planning board certainly seems to think they're High and um I'm uh I'm I'm not a big fan of um these um dormatory style developments um but you know that that's all I'll say at the moment yeah I'm I'm not either because I are bigger family but there's a lot of people in need of them and the housing committee and the affordable housing fund have said hooray we need these so well that they're them and we're us I understand that's why we incorporate them those because they there was a need for them yes we will look into that drainage thing and I'll have an answer next time I come back here like I said we're at our 10% sharper I understand that's all I have for now go ahead Scott uh Norine question in looking at the comments from the boards different boards around town they recommended sending the project to a peer review engineer so I guess we have to kick that review process off right well I I think um as part of that I mean certainly the Board needs to consider what action you're going to take on this case or not um and that was what prompted your motion that you started the meeting with right so I guess uh what I would recommend is that the board consider what they want to do and if you are going to move forward and hear this then what engineering is telling you is that they will need peer engineering and including uh storm water review right okay thank you for the clarification I don't have any other questions at this point Brank um I apologize I forgot to mention that we do have a referral from the housing coordinator um who sent us about a two-page referral and the substance is that she acknowledges that the town needs rental unit that's particularly for families so that's in the record um couple of things the I I went out and I did a um a site visit uh the other day and a couple I noticed um that the Broken Bow Lane as it passes this particular property is in pretty rough shape there's a hole where it meets Route 28 which is you it's almost like a barrier you have to drive around it and then when you um when you get to the first uh curve and the road curves to the left there's a pretty rough stretch of payment and all this bad pavement is right by is actually a the property that you own I'm wondering if you and your client would consider making some improvements or at least repairs to Broken ban as it passes your property and and it provides the entrance to this subdivision the owners have already told me that they would be doing some repairs to Broken B Lane yes I think it's necessary because you're going to add 28 cars yeah and it's it's really unfair to come in on a private road add a lot of traffic and not assume some responsibility for the condition of the road we agree okay that's it all set well here we are again same architecture as the other ones um same Motel 6 look and I understand what you mentioned before with regard to the need for Studios but to continue to repeat the same level of architecture in what I consider to be relatively poor architecture um I don't think it's appropriate especially since we've reached our 10% um level to allow this to sort of thing to continue I understand the town needs these things but is this the right place for our on the right conditions but one of the things you've asked for this is in the coastal PA district and you know how concerned I've been I think this board has been about the Coastal Pawn o District I also recognize that this is an area to be sewered at some point in time and I have to ask the question uh before I get into the nitrogen load but you're asking for this waiver yet the board hasn't waved it you haven't provided any documentation as to the level of nitrogen load that this project will create and you're required to do so so long as this board is not waved goes to upon overlay District 7.2 B so have you done any calculations that uh determines the new nitrogen load to the coastal p no a district as required by 7.2 B we haven't done them yet but we will do them and just to take you to next week which you requested we'll have for next week too so so you will provide those we will provide them um is there any evidence that you have right now that the new sewer line will be connected to your project for instance you have stated that you're going to put a Seine Hub I think it is within 50 feet off Broken Bow and it says we designed our site with a sewer manhole approximately 50 ft off broken boat to allow for easy connection you use the word should which is not will should suo become available in the future um so I suspect even you are not sure when a sewer line would be going down there and what happens between if this board should approve this what happens to the coastal F District before Sue line comes in um I'm not sure anybody really knows when Sue is coming and it's it's been referred that it's coming around 2027 yes when we had a site uh visit with the Mass housing people in the various boards in the town the Board of Health suggested that somewhere in this area would be a manhole that would pick up that storage and we've allowed the the tanks are over here we've allowed ourselves ability to connect to it very easily should it come to that spot if it doesn't we have a space reserved for the denitrification area so we're anticipating we're going to get sewer sooner than I thought I thought it was in fact in fact um I have something here that says that the project is likely to be completed in 2027 but there is a there is a uh it's contingent on some other matters I think you're probably aware of that if you've spoken to the department on that no I have not talked to the Sewer Department I've talks to the Board of Health all right so there are some contingent issues as to when this sewer line will go in and I believe that has to go back to the state there are some issues um on this whole thing so the answer is we don't don't know when the SE Line's going to go in we don't know you're going to supply this we don't know what the effect of added nitrogen will be to the coast upon overlay district and that is a we keep approving these things and it's a very very serious situation in town you can see the planning that's going on about um uh the Watershed areas so if you're going to come back next week if you're not going to decide to take this project off the table which as speaking as one member I would dearly love to see you do um I just don't think we need this right now uh I think we need to concentrate on uh lips those projects approved by the uh select board those projects that voluntarily put in IA systems and I think that this is just um not the time for this project especially at this point in time that I'm only speaking as one member but the architecture is the same old architecture you've seen with other projects do and the housing is is quite unique and different I think that people that need affordable housing should have quality of place and I don't think that your architecture provides that um it's the same plan over and over again I know they're cheap to build uh but if I could convince this would to deny this I would do so I have no more questions address what you just said I I totally disagree with you on the design of the buildings I think the design is fine and the people live inside the units the inside of the units are very good and the As for the sewer I sorry I was a little distracted by one of the board members shaking their head and distracting me with that so well keeping an open mind and listening to what I have to say but the nitrogen loading is the units we need affordable units why you think this we don't need this at this time I think is something I don't understand this is four units four affordable affordable units four affordable units yes it's all we're getting you get credit for all of them but you get four affordable units and if we can make anymore I'm sorry we don't really need the credit anymore I I I just I would like to hear the rest of what you were going to say about the architecture because the architecture is has been with your other projects with this project it is I think totally inappropriate uh why I don't understand why you think they're inappropri because it it it it does not fit well when you look at some of the other projects that have come in here and the designs they've used you could easily do that you just keep recycling the same plan over and over again and I that's part of the expense issue uh quote not just expense is function it works the unit works yeah but people need to have a place where they can come home to and you just talked about when I talked about a pride of place you said well people are going to come live in the live inside of these things right and I understand the need for it but I know from someone who's developed property you can do a lot better job on the outside of these buildings you don't need to do Motel sixes in this community it's just inappropriate and now that we're at 10% I don't understand why we would even consider this I don't understand you're Motel 6 like a Motel 6 it is not a Motel 6 it's an 8un uh Studio building you want to just put the elevation back up so everybody knows what we're speaking to please that way we're all on the same page or not on the same page [Applause] this is pretty landscaping that's a Motel 6 a Mot like it to me I I look look I'm just one board member and I know we're going to get into a debate now and I don't think that's appropriate I know the chair won't like that uh I would love to have ability to debate you uh on these things but it's not appropriate to do so here in my opinion that's a Motel 6 and I have to leave at that Mark go ahead um you mentioned that the sewers going through which yes it is um you also mentioned that you haven't speak spoken with the Wastewater department and I'm a little confused here because I thought all the sewering was south of 28 and this is north of 28 um so there's some confusion and I think um that with this and a few other issues you seem to have not done as much homework as I would have liked uh the fact that you haven't spoken with the uh uh Wastewater superintendent and and uh I um and I might may be completely wrong but it it's my understanding that all the intention intended sewer is south of 28 and again I State this is north of 28 and for um that's Amy's letter Mark it's it's north he says it's going to start in 25 and be completed by 27 but it's contingent yeah ballp that's the the T ticket path area um it's in the Watershed it's also in phase one of the I I like I said I I I could be wrong yeah this afternoon well I think it's you can keep that yeah the plan has changed from what I knew uh I was aware of but uh if she says so I mean she's the boss any other questions up here no I I I I must say that I I I I don't disagree with um some of the things that Tony has stated and I mean uh uh we've given a we've been given a a a a bigger Hammer to wield and um I I know you know I'm not against using it I think we have the the folks here we can hear a lot from them and I think we get a lot of guidance as soon as we can hear from the public you guys ready let's go public whoever wants to come up we just need your name and address please my name is Paul Young I live in 48 home s lane I've been there 60 years um to Mr Duffy's question there's no address it's a watershed I don't know how many times it's flooded since the storms it comes from Great Bay through perch Pond under 28 the drain pipe now if your client wants to pay for flood insurance for these people and the Damage when it floods that's fine but you know I don't understand why a permit should be allowed in a watered which floods you know where does the flood water come from is it rain or no storms well that's storm surge it goes from Great Bay through perch Pond and there's a pipe underneath 28 that goes for the runoff I've been there 60 years I've seen many floods taking your word for it I just want to know what you're referring to that's yeah and if you go look under 28 you'll see the drain pipe cuz I used to play there as a kid and go underneath you know through it so it it actually surges during a storm up it's yeah it's been flooded there for a few times that would uh because you know what the mouth of perch Pond has turned into I mean you can go down there and the fish you're L you know me it's it's no but it has gone through Great Bay a it's actually disgraceful but you know and that's where the next sewer yeah and then if you're going to talk about sewer and it floods you know now that goes into something else I mean well that's what I'm well that's what I'm saying I've seen it I've been there years I've seen it you know flood on certain storms it's not all the time and there's also a um I might be getting off and they got a drainage problem too with these people well there's I I know of numerous houses uh in the the newly sewered areas and and and what happens is um when they dig the road up to put the big pipe in and they fill it with the crushed stone it it literally turns into a retention Basin for all the storm water and then who happens to be unlucky enough to be hitched up to the Sewer at the lowest point Point their their basements are flooding out like I mean you can see some of these houses there's one on uh Sycamore Mar Vista and they have a sign uh sump pump or whatever because it and there's another one on leian Avenue and um I I've brought this to the attention of uh so I you know I don't I bet that's really surprising to me and I have an engineering background that that the surge is actually going up through there but that does explain Bob was bad the condition of uh of the mouth of of of First Pond cuz you see the surge in the waters like look at fouth Harbor the pipe goes under the under towards Mor Pond yeah you see the floods there on Main Street mhm so I'm just I'm just bringing that to your attention that there's a problem there and if you're going to build this and if they want to pay for the damage in the flood insurance for these people well I'm familiar with a woman who spent $50,000 for uh five uh sump pumps in her basement and before the sewer would end it was dry for 50 years and uh Town hasn't actually dealt with it and um I'm I'm no but I'm just bringing this to light yeah yeah you're alerting me to something I wasn't aware of I like to know everything plus you know it's not an area yeah like you said it looks like Motel 6 but I'm just saying it's not an area for a build for buildable yeah and I mean with with with M Park's photos here and then you know the potential to add to this issue well I mean they have engineers and we're going to have a peer engineer so um some of this is going to be answered but now if you block off that now you got to deal with pawn andet p the flood they're not going to be allowed to because it's the state's already using it as what appears to be an in any okay I'm I'm not going to go on any yeah but I just want to and let you know that it does thank you thank you come on up name and address please Peter frel 82 broken B um one of my major concerns is also that I haven't heard brought up yet is that this lot is really only slated for one home um apparently since you have the 40 you know the four affordable units you can put five properties on the lot that is only slated for one home um also that you increased traffic you know right across the street there's already a overpopulated sober home that has an abundance of cars already so I think you know adding another 28 spots with only four visitors um you know that's another concern for additional guests just parking along the side of the road and those are our M those are my main concerns sir you mentioned the sober home where is that relationship you said across the street what white one the big so when you take yeah number 29 so when you take the turn I don't know if we can put the map back up but it's a big white one right where you had to stop before the hole all right he just didn't say where it was yeah so the sober home right okay thank you yeah all right and there's no parking for the so the sober home has parking in the rear um most of the time until recently until they just actually put a bunch of dirt in the in this area right here I saw that what they've done is most of the time there's cars just parked there from the sober home um until the Builder actually put up dirt and boulders to prevent them from parking in that spot that's why the that's why that big pile of dirt's there there's Boulders there now yeah that kind of out yes yes yeah wow did that negatively affect the water issue the water's always an issue so it's I mean as soon as it as soon as it rains it all piles there anyway um you know the road like you said as soon as you turn in you know this I yell at my son every single DayZ you pull in that not to mention that there's a big crevice there but there's also a lip so as soon you you got to go 2 miles an hour over that lip if you go 5 miles an hour your car bumps and smashes the ground my kids bumped his bumper off a couple you know that's just a road itself but um you know there's the big hole there and then there's the big hole on the corner right by where their other entrances slated to be so great thank you hello my name is Barry Alves uh we own the ab buding property on the east side of Broken Bow 540 and 544 um I took down some notes and I kind of drove the property a little bit and drove Route 28 now this is the last 317 ft of wooded property after Oxbow Road to the Village Green as well so everything is built on now and more of these affordable housing are starting to creep up to the street line they used to be set really far back so my big concerns are I grew up playing in those woods mud water all the runoff from Homestead Lane comes down all the runoff from Broken Bow comes down um it's it's basically a flood plane really in essence um again I I'll go to the the way they've laid out the the plan of the property for that size piece of land is just um a lot of excessive impact for the area a lot of you know those kids that ride their bikes up and down the street there still going to tea ticket school I think it's dangerous we've had affordable housing we've seen people just stack people in a one bedroom which means it's not just one car so that we people parked up and down broken bat outside of the complex which will impact the residence of broken boat so I think it's very misplaced I think that you have water issues forever in that spot there's constant runoff there and I just think it's a bad spot to put affordable housing especially a minute amount of it it's just basically a builder enveloping it as affordable housing to get retail units in a place they really shouldn't be so sounds a wetland to me it is it's very wet year round you can walk in there and you come out with mud on your shoes and you're ankled deep in the mud I've been doing it since I was 3 years old to maybe 14 15 years old so it's always been muddy there thank you thanks anybody else H I think there's a bunch of it here okay we need all the information we can get hi my name is Walter buck and I live at 45 Homestead Lane which is zero on uh Broken Bow L my fence is right on zero line and am I going to have all these buildings in front of me my I'm going to be in shade most of the day because of the buildings that are up in front of me um there's that the water runoff or water whatever it's called Uh is there my back of my house and that Watershed is right there uh so I don't know what's going to be going on here but going to have a disaster if that floods it's going to flood my property I have my sups uh Tess B back there my title five is back here and again as the other people said who's going to play for who's going to pay for the flood insurance on that property so uh got some other people here we co-share the zero line on broken B Lane great thank you thank you Constantine Castleberry we are number 41 we've been there 41 years that's nothing but a single lane road oversiz going in and out of there it's never been a two-lane road you meet a truck you go off the road or he'll run you off the road and it's mainly getting oned to 28 that's going to be the problem with any more housing that's built in that area he's already put 11 brand new homes down the end but they still got to come out to 28 to get off so that's my wife and I wait sometimes three or four minutes to make a left turn coming out of there because everybody's coming into town from mashby hyenas Etc all the way down so it's it's only gotten worse over the years as everybody knows what the traffic situation is in fou and I know we can end up with the same situation with that same thing that all the other ones over on the other side of the ales property have where they put in those Monster uh eight unit houses there's at least six to eight of those back there and they use the same road to get in and out of as well so it's it's a a monstrous uh traffic situation and that's the one thing we're concerned with and we were under the impression there's only going to be four or five one family units in that area not 26 so I don't know where those people would park their cars probably half of them need motorcycles is bicycles okay thank you thank you KY Gman 504 T ticket highway I'm in the Condominiums above this project um I agree with everything that everyone has said here Anthony in particular the design that is up here is absolutely atrocious for that area I'm up high this is down in a gully basically that they're trying to build these totally inappropriate homes with not enough space not enough parking to me it's a quality of life issue for people that are living here now on Homestead and Ox Bell and us in the condos up there on T ticket Highway um it is truly a quality of life issue for all of us and I think uh the design is very inappropriate the Motel 6 uh is a good way to put it uh the homes themselves if we're going to build something build something something with some charm and some quality someone stated that I think this is gentlemen that well you live inside your house well you pull up to your house too and what's your sense of Pride and how do you feel when you're coming home and how is your home your so-called new home affecting all of your neighbors who have been here for so many years so we on the condos on T tiet Highway are totally against this project we feel it's totally inappropriate it's too much in too small a space someone mentioned the green space left in this town is so minor and this was one of our Our Little Gems that you know had its problems but it also gave a lot to the to the little town there where we are so I just wanted to express my thoughts on that very strongly great thank you you anybody else my name is Patricia santello from 33 Homestead Lane and I am 100% opposed I went to the meeting and I went with an open mind my mind changed when they told me it was a residential area on a one housee lot and they're going to put 16 units in that one lot and I started to think about the people that live there because I live on Homestead Lane and I've been living with the the so house that they have lived with it's not fun I called the police cuz I thought somebody was partying in my backyard the police came and they told me no it's not it's not in your backyard it's over there every summer they had to contend with that problem from this from the that house it's it was started out as a single home it's now a four story with kitchens on the fourth floor for the sober house that neighborhood is just inundated with one problem after another they the man that wants to build this just built the 11 houses he had the good sense to put one house on a lot now he's taken one lot and he wants to put 16 units it's on that one lot it's just wrong it's wrong it's a rape of the land and everybody knows that density is just not a good thing and I'm opposed thank you right thank you anybody else come on up Nick just like to address some of the concerns by the buers and the board um somebody mentioned about you liking lip projects better than you wish that we had done a lip on it it gotone through the board of Selectmen really the only difference between a lip and what we're doing is on a lip you deal with whatever they call themselves now dhcd their they changed their name recently uh and on what we're doing we deal with Mass Housing Finance Agency which is much easier to deal with for us much easier to deal with for for 40b projects um I I don't agree on the design but I'm willing to work on the designs to see if I can come up with something more palatable to the board we'll definitely look into the drainage issue the condition of the road and I will get the nitrogen loading Cals and I will meet with uh Amy L and any engineers and trying and get a more definitive answer on the sewer line if it's coming in 27 and our project's not going be finished till 26 it's may make a difference if if they can tell us zero in on that date that it's going to be there the sewer so having said that I'd like and the peer review TP typically on the opening of a public hearing we make a presentation the board asked questions the neighbors are heard those concerns get Incorporated in a plan a peerreview is selected and we proceed from there so for us to do a lot of this stuff without hearing these comments first I mean comment that we weren't you know totally prepared for this this is how they usually go and that's that's the way we came prepared for it to hear what what the comments were and incorporate them in the plans as we move forward with the peer review person and our our own Engineers so I'd like the board to consider this going forward I think it's a valuable asset to the town it's 16 units yes only four of them affordable perhaps we could look into making some more of them affordable through the F with affordable housing fund but the more cost we pile on the harder it is to get the rents to make sense and we have to go to Mass housing with rents that makes sense for final approval we have to show that the project is financially feasible and that's a product of income expenses which go to cost so Madam chair may I you know Mr Mar um you've had several projects 4bs before this board and every single time I've brought in the architecture it's part of the U uh review for yel project eligibility letter uh it's somewhat vague I read the pel review uh of the design it talks about cape card style but uh in reality are they really cape card style but you know I've asked you to consider the architecture on every single one of your 40 BS and you never come back what you did was you colorized a couple of the prints so I have to really question what are you going to come back with after what I guest talking to for about a year now uh and you've had the opportunity to change it you haven't changed one single plan that's come before us um so I'm not sure that going forward with this is giving you an opport to change the architecture is that really going to happen I mean you haven't considered it in the past I don't understand where you're going to go with it now I I don't understand what you're saying we changed those plans completely we we made the porches separate so that we get wider porches with more of a pitch on the roof in the front on the studio buildings we added dormers on the top we put glass lights in the doors we added um as one m I never again I'm going to debate but I never considered that adequate but we were still under the 10% and there was very little we could do about it we can do everything about it now uh we can deny this uh we can um we can we can recommend you do some other changes but why come back why spend the time on this now knowing that well I'm not going to speak for this in the board but there seems to be um some distaste for this project from the community and I think some on the board here I can't speak for everybody but myself so why should we put you through the expans of peer review right now for engineering it doesn't solve the density on a piece of land that we don't need to accept we don't need to accept this density we understand I understand the need for affordable housing in this town but there are a lot of uh other projects that are likely to come in I probably are going to come in that will fit the bill a little bit better than this and why should we approve something on this piece of land with this kind of density and this kind of architecture I just don't see it and why should you go through the expense of the the engineer pretty expensive so why should you go through this why not just take this off the table and just go try and do a better job with it come back in a few months maybe I I'm just asking I'm just asking these not just I'm just one member no it's it's it's I hear what you're saying and I and I understand you're you're you're feeling empowered at this point because we've had these shoved down your throat for years I'm not feeling empowered we are empow empowered and and you've had them forced on you for years and now you finally have a say in in what's going on and you're using it and I I respect that we knew that was coming from our end I just didn't expect this kind of reaction to to those units well it's just a very dense use all 40 BS are but it's just a very dense use of the land that doesn't need to be and I and I get the whole part about the finances I know how these finances work I know the cost you actually have some pretty good cost per square foot um in your application the found application you've done well with that um and again I'm just speaking as one member and um you've heard what I had to say you've heard what the community has had to say they don't want this and the board has to listen to the neighborhood they don't want this there's one person that I heard come up here tonight I really want this I understand the need for affordable housing and I can Overlook the density I can Overlook the architecture because we need this so badly nobody said that I haven't heard anybody in this board say that either it's just me I understand still he say and you never will hear a budus say that you never will hear a Budd say and rightfully so on this but what we what we can do is help with their drainage issues we can help with other things that are going on in their neighborhood like the the lousy Road you know those are conditions that we can work with I guess what I'm asking is rather than deny let me go work on some of these issues and come back it's up to you though I right and I don't want I don't want to waste my time and let's just just appease me if you really feel that strongly about it do what you got to do the chair to decide where to go with this well we we can't vote tonight no uh I would recommend that the board continue the hearing to January 9th that gives the applicant time to appeal if they should choose to do so and um we can certainly ask a peer engineer for some type of estimate if you op to go forward so that you've got that for your next meeting I think we absolutely have to go with a peer engineer because a lot of issues have been raised that only an engineer can answer number of people have testified here tonight on their own personal knowledge but if this is challenged and we need evidence to support a denial we're not going to get it here we need some engineering backup Madam chair where will this be challenged through you to uh a zoning Min how will this be challenged what are the Avenues of challenge that the applicant has uh they have the right to appe to the eohc on what grounds I mean we have to know that in order to decide to go forward what grounds I mean we I'm currently as one member under the impression that we can deny this no but we can't no well you you have to grant them the right to appeal and they will have the time in the interim before our next meeting to do that and what are they appealing I just want to understand uh a potential they they have the right to appeal a potential denial they would have to demonstrate to the state that we have not achieved Safe Harbor or some other protection that we're claiming but why was m chair we already have a certification what are they going to what what how is that going to change that's the rules they have the right I just wanted the applicant to understand this there's two questions you're asking and she's only answering one you're asking if we deny is that appealable is that your question uh yes absolutely okay if that's appealable to Superior Court and uh the standards are whether we acted arbitrarily and capriciously and therefore we have to have some evidence to support a denial and right now we have none um no grounds well we do about soggy grounds no no you you have to have evidence presented by somebody who knows what they yeah well I mean and you know I mean and right now we have the word of a lot of people it's their personal experience that in itself probably won't carry the day we need a peer review yeah I mean we obviously need engineering I could be wrong but it seems we're going to require that he come up with a pair Engineers review yep y so that we can understand more about the engineering issues on site right and what about I guess I still don't understand why what what it is for 10% why should we go forward but he's he's already waved it so but once he waves it then it's treated like a regular zoning case I see okay and it goes forward to Superior Court or land court it's his choice and there you have to present evidence that meets the the requirements of the rule of evidence and right now we don't have any even though he would be building multiple units on a single family 40b still applies y okay um should we also do you feel ask for traffic since trffic probably ask for traffic that's been but also specifically ask for the wetlands analysis and as Mr Young testified there's a drainage pipe somewhere that should be checked out to see where it actually goes well the boards had had what almost 17 pages of items so I think we need to move forward with all the peer reviews Point well if the applicant's willing to spend the money I guess we go forward yeah may I just just in closing uh the 17-page review is a lot of boiler plate in there you talk to the board of house questions that have responded so the board can what I would like to do ra before assigning a peer review I would like to ask to continue it to January 9th where we have have time to address these these engineering and other issues before the peer reviews what we're doing cuz they're reviewing something now that we're going to change or we're willing to change on the drainage and other things so now I can you can you tell this board what you're going to review and come back with so we all are on the same page I'm going to look at I'm going to look at that drainage and see if we can deal with the drainage on the street we're going to um that's address the concerns I heard about Homestead drainage issues and their septic systems we're going to look at the grades and the elevations and if there's anything we can do with that we'll do it uh we're going to look at the uh pavement issues in the street and put them on the plan what we're going to do with that we're going to look at the designs of the buildings and see if we can improve those and you're going to talk to Amy L and I'm going to talk to Amy L and get more detail on that and I'm going to get you your calculations now I guess Norine could what's a peer review cost for storm water um I mean it's this 10,000 bucks I mean I guess what's your concern if it's not that much money at the end of the day concern better understand the information that's been Merill here has information I'm not I'm not the subject area expert I would like appear to to better understand all of these people's concerns I'm your engineer I'm not opposed to a PE riew engineer looking what I'm saying is I'm going to change these plans that you're going to send out the plans I have now peer review engineer is going to review them and I'm going come back to you with different plans wait till I come back with the different plans then we'll send them out to the peerreview engineer a two-step process yes yeah that's all I'm saying let me give me a chance to revise them first and then send them to per I think that the the I'm sorry I'm sorry stepped on no I stepped on Scot are you done yeah well I guess I'm more amenable to a two-step process but again the board's very busy we get a lot going on and I just don't want to meet on January 9th and not have all the information that's necessary for us to potentially move forward again or to deny it at that point so to that point are we on 180 day clock here no so this can go on until we heard enough we don't have we don't care about 108 days like we had on a traditional 40 B that's my understanding I can verify that I think that's important because I don't want the clock to run out we don't either it's but the 180 days I understand still pay still works I'll I'll verify that okay now um I don't know a lot about this but I was um with the conservation agent recently on another piece of property and I it was highly educational for me but my understanding was that Wetlands can also be created when they're inundated with water and I mean he was taking core samples and this particular instance it wasn't a wet land today but it had the potential of becoming a wetland a years and not a lot I mean just a couple of years from now and um I'm just curious as to if if this piece of property has ever gone undergone such an examination uh I mean with the cores or whatever it is they do because I mean this property and then hearing um uh the gentleman and Mr Al speaking you can't go in there without you know coming out with mud all over your shoes I mean it's I think that potential needs to be addressed as well requesting a a hydrology test yeah I I think it's it's it's warranted and if it comes up fine but I mean uh if not uh I I just I I I was I I know the area a little bit and I mean uh the fact that the surge um evidently I mean it's just hearsay now but I mean it it I think it needs to be addressed looked into I mean you know Mark Casper uh you know might be um it might be something that um you know conservation needs to look at um you know I mean like I said I I know that these things can change and maybe it was was in a wetland 10 years ago but maybe it is was by the time they're done was there a request for applicability done no we're not we're not shown to be in any Wetlands areas but I'll get a bot this out there to take a look at it I'd prefer our own if we could ask conservation if uh you know they're going to ask us to flag it first that's what they're going to do so well I I don't know any of the procedures like I said it was uh you know I witnessed them there and and I know that he said that the you know the this particular piece of land wasn't a wetland today but it had the potential to be one in a few short years and I mean who's to say that window hasn't already been well these detention points create Wetlands I mean they they become a wetland themselves and I mean the high the state's already using it to drain um using not this piece they're using their own piece and they're all and connected I'll get a Bist out there to flag it it's okay let's do that uh M uh we're not talking about a Bist flagging Wetlands vegetation we're talking about somebody doing a hydrology test uh where they take core samples and they test the soils below and that's the type of this is not my this is not my subject area but I've had to do this on a lot of land that didn't look like Wetlands it's underneath where all the action underneath where everything is and so it's not just you bot this is going to go out and identif ify skunk cabbage and fragm other things like that and you're going to come up with maybe nothing and say well this is not a Wetlands it's the hydrology of the soils that Mr finer is discussing right now that may have changed to create this as a wetland I've gotten caught on that unfortunately uh uh all too many times on land that I didn't think was wet back in the day so if this board is considering what everyone has said about this being wet maybe a Wetlands um I am speaking out of turn I'm not an engineer but maybe you do need to have more than a bot this you have to have an engineer who a wetland engineer who does hydrology tests I I I don't know that's going to be up to you but I think it's going to be a question that's going to remain and not go away I'll address that in our review too we we do not have a referral on file from the Conservation Commission and I think they ought to be notified of this discussion and ask them to go out and take a particular look at these issues and report back to us before we hire anybody I think that's prudent do they have so there's an engineer on on the they have a te Tech and they have to core well you know that Tony I mean you've done it before I I wanted do on the record that's all yeah everybody all you good I just want to make sure we got the action plan Norine you to the 19 February January um we can ask conservation to take a look uh they would need permission to go on private property uh I don't know that they're required to do testing on private property so there there may be some question there that I'll have to check with them on that there be no sense for them to go on because they're not going to identify Wetlands vegetation which is the primary goal right but we could also in the inter room I realize there may be some changes made but we could still ask uh peer engineer to give us some type of estimate for work so at the next meeting if you decide to go forward at least well they have some idea about what yeah can we ask Nick if they'd be amenable to conservation core sampling this property if in fact they would yeah I guess the question certainly it's a it's a concern in Li of what I just learned in the last month yeah it's a definite and what I learned tonight it's it's a definite concern in my mind and um yeah for four units I um you know let me just be honest this thing doesn't thrill me yeah I guess the question is um what conservation can or can't do on private property and I think typically if they determine that they don't have jurisdiction which would be the starting point uh they may opt not to go go out and do private sampling well I think we should be asking them what they're and I mean and we also should be asking amenable to this to to allowing them and I think we can answer that yeah may I comment on that yeah Mr Maroni has already suggested that he would put a bnst on the site which is fine just there are no Wetlands plants necessarily there that's what the Bist does so maybe it you need to do have an engineer come agree to have an engineer do hydrology tests all a soil scientists uh Merill has soil scientists yes we'll have them go out there and do that and uh we'll have that report for all right the priew after you sign a peer review they can verify it or did not disagree with it um uh again no offense to anyone and know dist trust but you know uh trust didn't verify I mean I I would I on myself personally I would prefer that our own uh conservation had some at least sort of oversight on this um well then he has to make a request for determination am I not correct on that I think no I think you do if I if I may answer that typically what happens is we would flag the wetlands for the Conservation Commission they would we would then file the determination with them to see if they agree with that Wetlands line that gives them the permission to come out on the property and check on it we didn't see any Wetlands on this property within 100 ft of where we were working but I'll get a soil scientist out there to verify it with hydrology of the soils that Wetlands could be created and you just don't have the wetlands plants there and it hasn't rained much this year well I think were you talking about those borings is hydric soils those are determined by what history is whether you find the wetlands on the top I mean isn't terminer or whatever of whether in fact it actually is I was like I said I only learned this recently and I was quite surprised as at the process and the fact that something can become a wetland and I mean it seems that there's a lot of indications here that it may be or may have or well I guess what I'm saying is let our engineer do his thing to address the concern then you have your peerreview engineer confirm or deny and then we'll know and if it's anywhere near C jurisdiction they'll get involved and as to the question about the 180 days I believe it does apply but we can ask to to extend it rather than take a deny I'll give you more time if you need it so and we did that to open the hearing we'll be more than willing to do it to to keep things moving in the right direction so so come January 9th when you come back you'll have that hydrology report and Revis plans Revis elevations uh nitrogen calculations uh answers on uh existing drainage problems in the area what we may be able to do and what we can't do and why and what we uh we'll do regarding the pavement some spruced up elevations yeah we're going to redo we're going to look at the elevations and do whatever we can to make them look better okay now um just just for my own is are they planning on putting a sewer stub just for this development and not taking in the rest of the um neighborhood I I don't know I I I don't know that do you so it looks like they made an exception just for you because it was always my understanding that there would be nothing sewered north of 28 but again I could be wrong but he says in the report this is the only property on the Street SW must be nice and it was no it was there before we before we filed it was already in the plan long before we came up with this well what were they going to Hitch to it if they're not hitching the rest of NE that makes no sense to me I don't know but they didn't do it for us sure come back come back you have to get up and the speak into the microphone cuz there's people at home on the edge of their seats that want to hear everything that you have to say caring my um my question is basically would you consider speak into the microphone would you consider um scaling down the number of units that you're building in here at all that's my question in other words not maybe Motel 6 or um make it more um a little housing community would you consider that I try to keep an open mind and consider everything uh I'll talk to the owners about that um but again it's a it's a numbers game but I I will talk to them in natur World always looking for the path of least resistance so I'll talk to the owners and see what we can come up with thank you anybody else out there before we come on up hi I'm Walter bck at 45 Homestead Lane zero at Oxbo I would like to invite one or two of the members of the board to visit me at 45 Homestead Lane and have a look at this W land is drainage system the water runoff just have a look at next time at the next meeting I will bring in some pictures but I'd like to have one one or two of you uh at least to invite us all okay well we all have to go separately too we can't come at the same time po po party we all went out there yeah oh yeah this we all go to Every property oh yeah yeah is this um something that would be uh more evident during or after a rain as opposed to yeah what obiously yeah I was just saying I don't know uh I'm at the zero line so I I don't know from top to bottom running I'm an electronic technician so I have no idea what all this is about all I know is my property is zero line and it it's right right there where the drainage is so as I say I'd like to invite you to come down I will bring PRS next time of what it looks like yeah good thank you thank you so much I'm going to tell you something you never a motion motion to continue to June 9th not January 9th January January 9th i' like June January a motion in a second anybody else have anything else before we V Frank cler Frank clerk cler cler oh cler all those in favor iose done clerk can't some days thank you all for coming out tonight appreciate it we we got a lot of information 58 doing 524 524 yes 9035 knowes in person would come and they' say I'm going to build this I say aot of c and they'd be like how do you know that oh man I ran through all these this whole town on my feet running away from everything so we have a but's list list like that not a lot of people know that am not and you shouldn't expect her to know yeah no we're not [Music] done yeah just you guys we still have to finish up thank you you all sorry if you can talk outside the building all of you yeah thank you again minutes thank you we are tabling because of our administrators been viciously busy I will get them out to you to worry on zoning administrator updates um very quickly we've issued a couple of administrative approvals Nick Nick Sor call was for uh 265 Walker Street they were revising the shape of their pool from a kidney shape to a rectangle uh lifestock yeah for fact looks better in the aerial photos uh 247 oyster Pond Road uh they had proposed an addition to the rarer North and they were actually uh opting not to put that in and they were just adding a rinse station so we clarified those plans for them 36 Bayside Drive they were doing a single story addition to the reare and in the process they were making some corrections for work that had been done that was not properly permitted uh they also have some fencing in the Town's Road layout they're going to remove um they had a deck that was too close to their side Lot line that they are correcting so in the process of all their Corrections we gave them permission to do their little addition and then 27 Homer a property's been before the town before they have a small second floor deck that they wanted to screen in we granted them permission to do that in Fairmont you didn't do yet no three units to the two no you didn't do that one yet and that's it you're good yes not that I'm rushing you I just I'm ready to go home everybody wants board disc discussion no discussion board updates not enough discussion nope future agenda items we're good see everybody on November 14th next meeting November 14 I have to do that yes you do um the next meeting is November 14th at 6 p.m. Mark motion to adjourn second it we have a motion to adjourn in a second all those in favor adjourn [Music]