##VIDEO ID:hpBv9UFausI## you good good hell Liz okay let me call this meeting to order please rise aable for bik salute I uh this meeting is called pursuant to the provisions of the open public meetings law this meeting of November 12 2024 was included in the list of meeting notice sent to the Hun County Democrat and Courier news on January 3rd 2024 posted on the bulleon board at B Hall on that date and has remained continuously posted as required in addition a copy of this notice is and has been available to the public and he on file you off CL SC yeah councilwoman engleheart here councilwoman thear councilman LoveIt here council president long here councilman Parker here Council vice president Rosetti here here um who is Bill on the line he is Bill is online okay great um okay so we're going to start with a presentation by our planner our municipal and planning board planner Beth mcis um to talk about the potential Main Street resoning all yours I also see in the audience the chair of the planning board Karen gin thank you very much I just uh sorry just real I the zoom yet which will enable me to share a screen that oh I just want to also mention that uh attorney Corsini called me there's an accident on so he's running a couple minutes [Music] progress you need to turn off your volume y thank you got it there we go so let me just share a screen for folks my name just fix that record Liz can still hear you right Liz can you hear me I'm good thanks oh I need can you me to share don't I have to promote you to co are you I think I have to promote you to co-host that might that might be another way to do it yeah make co-host that's what I that's what I would think okay there you go all right okay excellent so folks what I've got for this evening is what I've got for this evening is a presentation to uh to talk about some of the changes that are being contemplated in the downtown districts but also uh before I launch into that discussion I also have uh information that I think is it's really just intended to provide some background information and some framework for the thinking about retail in a DAT count such as plumton so with that uh the the overall message I think that folks should think about as we talk about Zoning for the downtown is just simply what's your vision for for the burrow and uh I'm here this evening really talk about downtown zoning but I've listed a variety of things some of which are more or less applicable to downtown and I'm talking most specifically about light industrial but I want to encourage folks to think about the vision for not just Main Street but also your other commercial districts so that you can put Main Street and the surrounding streets within the context of the burrow as a whole as well as really uh as well as the the region context given that Flemington is sort of the ho in the Donut of riton Township so I would encourage folks to just think to keep this in the back of your mind as you think about retail and Zoning changes and uh here we have a zoning map just to uh to get everybody oriented so when I'm talking about downtown zoning what I'm really talking about is Main Street and the DB District to the extent that extends Beyond Main Street and I'm going to go through through each of these districts in a little bit more detail but just to get folks oriented uh this right here the main spine the red spine if you will is Main Street and that is within your DB your downtown business district we have the db2 and these orange areas this is mine Street this is Church Street down here if you can see my cursor and then uh in terms of your other commercial districts this big uh sort of lighter red area this is your HR District the highway re retail district with down here this is the shops of Flemington uh and the black hatching is uh an overlay District your super shopping overlay District additionally we have the purple areas this is your TC District on the south side of rout 12 uh as well as along Park uh and some other areas along the burrow and then the last area I really want to highlight is this pink area and that is the V District with this road right here being stangle Road just to help folks get oriented so so as we talk about the downtown it's predominantly Main Street but it also in terms of the db2 provides connections to stangle Road as well as what was Liberty Village uh via Church Street as well uh a little bit more context we've adopted a master plan as recently as 20 22 but we also have the 2015 reexamination report and both of those policy documents really lay the foundation for what we're talking about here with a couple of uh goals that I wanted to highlight the first one talking about a desire for specialty retail restaurants encouraging Redevelopment of underutilized properties and another one speaking to the need for a vibrant downtown that will help uh Drive uh retail and really quality of life and activities for residents as well as visitors to the burrow and for a little bit more specific we have master plan policies that were set forth and they were to eliminate the SIC codes I'm going to go through those in a little bit detail but in general if you take a look at the DB District as it exists today there are dozens of permitted uses and that is because every single use uh has a specific code as opposed to just to choose an example as opposed to retail sales generally it's listing things like um Dairy Stores candy stores clothing stores Etc and so that's why we have so many uses uh in addition other recommendations were to expand the permitted uses for your uh downtown districts as well as the V District the stangle road Liberty Village area for the the commercial aspects anyways with the idea of to permit and encourage more entertainment destination uses also to eliminate but not just eliminate but revamp the PO district and that was done through a revamping of the TC District many of those lands that were previously in the PO District are now in the TC district and that was part of what the the burrow had done to in part reduce retail sales and service areas so that would be those uses would be better channeled to the downtown but we also expanded permitted uses to allow for more larger permitted uses that are better suited for those locations such as long Route 12 or larger Lots along Park um and uh and so much of this work has been done but I wanted to give you a flavor of what type of recommendations were in the master plan because that's part of what's leading up to today um and just a little bit of background there are a couple ways to think about retail so uh it includes when we talk about retail there it can be categorizes neighborhood goods and services food and beverage and also general merchandise each has a has its own sort of distinct role in a downtown but they all play together and when when coupled together can really create comprehensive or a wide variety of reasons for folks to come to Flemington so an example I've used is if you want 15 uh you know 15 different types of destinations to the Bur you need to have all of those uses located or permitted in a single area so you've got those 15 different reasons to come to the Bur another way to think about retail is convenience retail versus destination retail with convenience being predominantly but not only but predominantly for uh Ser servicing the needs of your residents and destination retail predominantly but not only serving as uh as a catalyst for bringing visitors and outside folks into the world to do some shopping and and have some fun here through entertainment and so as we talk about you know the reason why I wanted to bring some of this information to all of you is you know there are a variety of reasons to plan for retail so uh one of them I think huge for any municipality is quite simply just to bring ratables to support the residential tax base to have something else to provide taxes to provide school taxes rather than just residences along those lines it's also about providing jobs for folks um for folks that can live in the burrow and also have a reason to come to the burrow in addition to just is uh working that means that they might also be able to uh take part in restaurants other retail and other services in the B it's also about providing business support So creating concentration so that these folks can Thrive together and Thrive off of each other through complimentary services and then lastly it's about quality of life for residents people come a lot of people come to Flemington because they want to be part of a downtown they want to be able to walk to a restaurant they want to be able to walk to uh to a favorite store or just walk to be able to pick up a bagel before they're on their way to work for your retailers uh something that I think we need to keep in mind are a handful of considerations that that are within I I want to say the control of the burrow but are at least relevant to burrow planning as opposed to very large economic swings that might be happening and affecting the retail Market but they're thinking about retail concentration of complimentary business businesses if you think about uh places where there might be six different design stores in a single center it's because they're thriving off of each other they're complimenting each other um and so not only just having that concentration but also zoning to permit and to encourage that that concentration of complimentary uses those folks are also looking for visibility and that has to do with building design as well as signage they're looking at the population surrounding and traffic counts and all of that is related to making sure that they've got the folks that are within convenient and easy distance to their shop so that they're more likely to generate economic activity and sales and then of course they're looking for modern and flexible spaces uh and that that is predominantly a landlord to tenant issue or property owner issue but of course that relates to a lot of what the planning board does uh on a monthly basis through review and development applications and one of the things that I think it uh has to be acknowledged is a major change in the economy which is just simply that more and more retail is going to online just the the example I've pulled is from 2000 there was 6% of total retail sales was for e-commerce 24 years later it's up to 16% and that's I think I think obviously going to continue to expand and so that puts additional pressure on our downtowns and our strip retail centers to make sure that they can be viable and attractive because there's a whole other element of competition compared to 30 years ago and that of course is the internet Amazon as well as every other website out there um and so as we think about adjusting your zoning districts we want to talk we're thinking about right sizing Zone districts and I think a great example to that is our work with the TC District to try to uh concentrate retail more towards the center of downtown as opposed to say uh Route 12 and some of these other uh outer areas where it doesn't currently exists we also want to make sure that our zoning does the best it can to be resilient to economic changes and part of that is is about permitting a variety of uses that could be appropriate in in a particular area while still advancing goals for the burrow it's also about improving the public realm you know the burrow has a great program for Main Street for Street trees Etc and so that's that's also part of helping to make downtown more comfortable and inviting to folks same thing with uh with traffic in some respect I'm not talking about traffic counts but just making sure that customers can easily get in so that's about parking it's about making sure deliveries and garbage can occur without being inconvenient um and then of course having convenient parking locations a couple definitions because I'm going to go through this as we talk about the permitted use retail sales is very simply Sales Direct to the consumer so it's not about uh wholesale to to what is going to be a middleman it's you're walking into a store you're buying something you're bringing it home for use as an example same thing for retail services you're walking in you're having a service conducted right then and there uh as opposed to uh an example that I I would share is uh a barber shop is a retail service you're walking in you're getting a haircut that um but uh a real estate office is not that is you might have a real estor to speak to but the service you're being provided is going to occur presumably at least a few months from then when you actually purchase the home so a realtor's office while they're providing a service a home sale that is an office whereas a barber shop or a notary for example you're walking in and getting an immediate service that is retail service okay so let's go through uh The Zone districts I'm going to go through your existing districts real quick so that we can just to give some context and we're going to get into what changes are currently being discussed so for your downtown districts the DB and the db2 now I've coupled these two zones together because they actually permit all of the same uses today and so those uses include 40 uses like I said because they're using the SIC codes which uh Define for example as I said retail in uh in 19 different ways as opposed to a single use of retail it also includes restaurants breweries Retail Services repair services upper story apartments offices farmers market and Commercial agriculture so essentially I I think a lot of the uses that you would expect to find in downtown as we're going to see not quite all of them and perhaps a couple of additional uses that might be less appropriate for an active and a vibrant downtown that the burough would like to promote for your uh Union hotel Redevelopment area is it is surrounded by the by the DB district and so unsurprisingly has very similar permitted uses of upper story apartments also of course and I think obviously a hotel retail sales Services restaurants offices Fitness art studios performing arts and some Education and Training so uses that that are well aligned with what we're promoting elsewhere along Main Street for your vas District this district has been uh revamped as part of earlier work done by the this Council as well as the planning board and this permits a lot of the the uses that you might expect for this uh this vibrant area of stangle as well as turntable Junction so it's it's retail sales Services restaurants Recreation also some education art uses like manufacturing and Studios as well as Farmers Market Commercial Agriculture and theater uses for your HR District this is uh one of your non-residential districts that has not been revamped and so that's why you see the 52 permitted uses including 23 retail sales as well as the restaurants Retail Services some contractor uses repair services office Fitness senior citizens as well the um the senior housing project on church at the corner of church and Broad is actually in the HR district for example and I think that's why that use exists um and so this is a really expansive Zone District that has a very wide variety of permitted uses I think consistent with the very large and diverse area that the Zone District covers your TC District of course we already reamped that to move away from retail and so this is a place where Offices Medical Professional offices are permitted as well as child care and then other destination uses uh like Recreation theaters higher education then we've got some other uses that are appropriate for areas that are not quite in the downtown like Club facilities and Animal Hospital Funeral Home research and health and fitness facilities however this District does have conditional uses and where you can meet those conditions which are largely tied to uh for retail and apartments it's about larger larger sites that might include consolidation of properties that's an opportunity for folks to to do retail to do some limited housing and then we also permit some other uses such as contractor let industrial repair facilities however those are tied to uh indoor activities so as to prohibit outdoor storage which can be rather unsightly particularly given some of the locations here um and also limiting hours so while these last three uses on the list are permitted the conditions are really tied to limiting the impact to any surrounding residences or surrounding uses in general for our CB District this is another District that has not yet been revamped as you can see this is generally surrounding um the uh the root Val Circle and the entrance into town through Maine as well as Brown Street it permits a variety of retail office uh and repair services as well as one and two family homes for which there are several in the district so um as we think about moving forward what I'm thinking uh for your downtown I'm thinking about a lot of the work that we've already done in the TC the vas and through the elimination of the PO District we've got Main Street construction that's clearly once that uh once that Redevelopment project is completed that's going to have a big presumably very positive impact on down town um we also have a variety of existing and service uses we have new residents and approv development and some Redevelopment uh sites that may move forward in the future and then of course we have Raritan Township development so as I started out this presentation asking folks to think about what is your vision and what is it that you foresee for Flemington that you'd like to foresee in Flemington uh I put this list together because I think these are some additional influences that that we can't help but recognize are going to play a role in uh how folks use the downtown how many folks use the downtown and what might be appropr in the years to come so let's talk about some ordinance changes and right now what we're looking at are I would say two large categories in one item that is rather small that I'm going to hit upon at the end the two large categories are changes to the DB and the db2 districts and then the the smaller one as you can see is listed uh for the HR District um and the process that we've gone through thus far um so in addition to the master plan goals I want to be clear that there have been policies set forth uh beginning in the 2015 planning board uh and Then followed through or excuse me 2015 reexamination report adopted by the planning board and Then followed through in the 2022 master plan there are policies recommending elimination of the SIC codes expanding and modernizing permitted uses and also eliminating inactive uses from the din town and I would Define I would define an activ as one that essentially from a very simplistic standpoint has a lot of people walking through the door for activity uh for economic activity so thinking about folks walking in and out of the door for a restaurant to get a meal to get a coffee to buy something to have a service taken care of those are active uses those are reasons why folks come to the downtown and importantly they also um address that concept of having a concentration of complimentary uses the burrow seeks to be uh part of your vision is being a destination for the region for folks that come and shop and dine and just enjoy the burrow what you really need is multiple reasons for them to come you need a concentration of retail and restaurants so that folks can come and walk the several blocks stop in all the shops grab the coffee grab the meal that they're that they're looking for as and give them more reasons to come to the burrow and that's exactly why concentration is uh is really the best way to sort of generate that activity to be a catalyst for for really expanding uh the area so if you've got a concentration in one area uh using that as a catalyst to have that uh additional activity interest and um and con complimentary uses to be expanded from there um so as we take a look at the the master plan we see these recommendations for the use changes that I just described and the process thus far has been working with a subcommittee of the planning board so several members to review the permitted uses to draft uh potential ordinance amendments and that it's been sort of an iterative process where the draft is done by my office discussed with the subcommittee uh with amendments made and so on and so forth until uh introd introduction seems appropriate but in addition to Simply working with the planning board subcommittee we've also discussed the potential uh potential changes as well as concerns with uh the FCP uh specifically the FCP executive director as well as the president of the board and then we've also uh as recently as today actually discussed with the zoning officer because it's one thing for for all of you to put together what you think put together your vision to adopt an ordinance and uh in hopes of having that implemented but we want to ensure that the zoning officer feels that he has the tools to uh to interpret the ordinance in a way that is consistent with council's vision uh it's not appropriate for us to uh provide guidance as as to how the ordinance should be interpreted instead it is appropriate for us to give him the tools to do his job as well as possible and so that's part of the reason why the conversation with the zoning officer I think was so important to find out what challenges or what uh what pitfalls he might see with ordinance definitions or permitted uses Etc because we want him to be comfortable in his interpretations and very much to his credit he had a couple of ideas which uh I think are uh I would say clarifications and not not a significant change to any of your definitions but you you may see that in a future ordinance Amendment and that went to the whole planning board absolutely yes and yeah thank you so yes working with planning board subcommittee but more specifically actually went to the planning board for review uh and they they had some ideas the ways that ordinances will be tweaked uh in ways that are reflected in the presentation tonight um and uh once this process of updating the ordinances are complete it can be introduced to council so in terms of your DB District uh the proposed uses include retail sales and services restaurants and breweries art studios indoor Recreation theaters existing funeral homes and I want to emphasize that because you have an existing Funeral Home the purpose is to Simply allow them to operate as a permitted use rather than to expand to allow for additional funeral homes and the same thing for single family homes you have a number of existing single family homes often times in really beautiful historic buildings and so we want to allow those single family residences to remain without the implication being if they want to expand the home and it's not a permitted use they actually need to request a use variance and get a d variance from the from your planning board which is uh was which is a difficult uh which is difficult for single family homes and so we're allowing those to remain uh as permitted uses provided they are existing today and then lastly to update accessory uses to allow for events and classes to be accessory to per PES so it's not necessarily a new uh a new building type that would be permitted but really it's uh clarification to your accessory uses to make sure that for folks that might own let's say a shop to ensure that they can have a maybe an evening class to bring in customers or a customer Club event without running a foul of the zoning ordinance so this is about um giving the zoning officer as well as your business owners the tools and the clarity to understand what's intended to be permitted in the district um for your uh for your DB District in addition to those that I just listed there are a handful of uses that are also proposed that would be permitted on uses not including the first floor so essentially upper stories most likely but to the extent that building have basements they would also be permitted there and those would include uh Artisan manufacturing health and fitness uses higher education and Learning Centers Apartments as well as offices in addition we have a few conditional uses that are also being recommended so those uh first floor uses uh first four excluded uses that are listed uh at the top of this slide would be per on the first floor if the condition would be if they do not face Main Street essentially so to the extent that you have a building that's located on a corner for example if there's uh a tenant space that's uh that's oriented and accessed accessed from the side street as opposed to Main Street that would be a permitted use okay so the intent is primarily to allow these active more active uses listed here like retail sales restaurants art studios etc those are the uses intended to line main stream within the DB District um to the extent that some of these upper Story Only uses are on side streets they also would be permitted the other conditional use would be new single family homes essentially on the outer boundaries of the DB district North of cner Street and south of William Street and so uh the primary differences between this proposed DB District now and and the existing DB District I would say there are two things that I really want to couple things that I really want to highlight first is just the elimination of the SIC codes I think it's a a massive simplification of your zoning code and even though the use less literally goes from uh was it maybe 40 uses down to 10 uses something along those lines it's I I think that it should not be characterized as there are less uses now being permitted it's really a reorganization of the permitted uses and so as I said instead of allowing just uh 19 retail services or I'm sorry I forget the number for the DP District specifically instead of allowing just those 19 Retail Services it would be or retail sales it would be all retail sales essentially um and so I just want to be really clear just because we're going from 40 to 10 uses or a smaller number of uses does not actually mean that the district has gotten much more restrictive because of that reorganization the other thing that I think needs to be highlighted is that we're concentrating on active uses and I think the most notable use that is not active is an off ISU and that's why you see that now being restricted to Upper stories or as a as a conditional use permitted on the first floor if it does not face mry and so that's an over of what's being considered for the DB District next for your db2 district and of course these are the orange areas highlighted there on church and mine only so we're permitting retail sales and services excluding restaurants and breweries and I'm going to come back to that in a little bit but for right now excluding restaurants and breweries we're also permitting art studios offices existing single family homes and then for uses excluding the first floor health and fitness higher education and Learning Centers apartments and again we want to uh permit events and classes that are accessory to those permitted uses as I described for the DB DB1 or just the DB District um sorry before I move on to that um the other item I want to highlight is we're also going to be proposing conditional uses for the db2 district and so where you see excluding restaurants and breweries those uses would be conditionally permitted where they are not located adjacent to a single family home and the reason why that has been done for this particular district is uh this district has uh a variety of homes that are adjacent to single family residences but in addition to that the district is has a bit of a different character it's more residential in nature more low density in nature just by virtue of for example homes being set back for further from the street with a lawn as opposed to being right along the sidewalk and it's also intended as more of a transitional District rather than the primary retail and active District that we have such as for your uh your GB district and also uh the Bas District along stangle as well and so we've created this conditional use for restaurants and breweries uh to be uh in order to limit the impact on single family residences and that's why the conditional use is simply that they can't be located adjacent to those uses it's really intended to uh to make the single family neighborhoods a bit more comfortable that's Sur this district and then for the uh for the last change that that I wanted to share is uh very simple for your HR district and that is simply to add breweries as a permitted use this is not a re a proposed revamping of the HR District that may occur later this is really sort of a quick fix we know that breweries uh are are appropriate in this District given the permitted uses of restaurants Etc and so simply adding that use will uh I think uh just simply complement the district and allow for something that I think folks might assume already is permitted in that District to actually be permitted and then while we're at it I also want to add that language about classes and events being accessory to permitted dist to to permitted uses in the district and so as we think about uh the time frame of implementing your vision which uh which may include what we just discussed with the proposed ordinances there are a couple things that I want to highlight so for those uses that exist but may not be permitted by virtue of the ordinance those uses are allowed to remain no no change to permitted uses gives the municipality the ability to um uh to tell a use that they must leave the district provided they're they're there uh occupying space legally um they're essentially grandfathered in that just because the use has been prohibited does not mean you need to leave your home if you're in a single family home does not mean that you need to Rel relocate your business you're allowed to remain uh for as long as you like additionally your use can uh can turn over to uh a new tenant or a new property owner provid of the use Remains the Same so an example would be an existing office in the DB District let's say it's occupied by an attorney if this ordinance is adopted that prohibits first Flor office spaces that attorney's office May Remain the attorney's office may be sold to a new property owner and it may be reoccupied with an with an attorney um and that may continue for the next two years 10 years or 30 years however if that attorney's office gets converted into let's say a salon and it operates as a salon for a handful of years and then an attorney would like to to purchase the building and turn it back into an attorney's office at that point it would be prohibited because it already turned over to a to a new use you can't go back in time to what had previously been permitted but uh the big message here is existing uses May remain in place and they be they may be reoccupied by the same use additionally in order for uh for all of uh buildings that might not be occupied with a permitted use today to do so in the future I I do want to highlight and acknowledge that there may be building improvements necessary it might be creating uh an improved retail front so that there's display space it could be a need for parking could be a need for improved signage but building improvements may be necessary and the last thing I want to highlight is there might be there might be a bit of a time period in order to generate some momentum as we get that concentration of uses as we get a concentration of a few more restaurants there might be another restaurant tour that's interested in coming as you get a couple more um home decor shops uh a couple home decor shops come into town you may need that before another two or three decide that they want to come to Flemington to be part of uh this larger collection of Home Decor uh thinking that the burrow may be a destination for that type of shopping and so overall uh these things take time but it's important but that's why I start the presentation with what is your vision because I think you've got to have vision and then unfortunately the way it works is there needs to be some patience in order to allow for these things to happen for the existing uses decide to leave because they have the choice they can remain for the building improvements to occur for that concentration to occur so that you can start to get that momentum up and so with that that is an overview but I'm happy to take any questions um you said this when was this put in M plan originally it started in 2015 um where there was a reexamination report where inactive newes were recommended to be uh prohibited from the downtown and that was followed through in 2022 with some more recommendation so in 2022 it was reaffirmed and additional language went in there yes um just a question banks are what are banks they're Services right Services yes the actual banking service is a service uh if it's a lender like a mortgage broker that would be an no but like norfield bank which on Main Street would be a permit use yes it's service okay all right so I'm gonna open up for questions council president do you have any yeah a couple um so the the SIC code the getting rid of those was part has been part of since for a while the master plan abely abolutely I think that was also recommended in 2015 okay earlier and just so so we're because this is really important you know the amount of uses with sic codes exists like 40 uh but that's that's that's more restricted than change because our guy in the zoning office has to interpret those codes and has to stick for a letter right absolutely so wait hold on Liz Can you can you hear her can you hear yeah all good I can hear her no I see that you're muted that's why I confused me if I think the mic I it's still picking her up so no problem so an example that I that I uh that I like to give just to try to put it in context is right now your GB district for example permits things like paint glass wallpaper Sales and Service Hardware Store Lawn and Garden Center general merchandise store grocery store dairy product sales um but these are all different sic codes these are all different sic codes but what you what you can't sell is a computer because I'm not sure computers were I'm not sure anybody anticipated having computer store when this ordinance was written so now I recognize I'm not sure that you know joeo wants to open up a computer store computer sales store the Dell store on Main Street but I think it's a good example to just show how outdated the SIC codes are um compared to the uses and the things that we're talking about today because I and it's interesting to say that because I you know I have and other council members have expressed concern about that you know here we have some we have storefronts that are not filled um and that might be a reason so as far as you had mentioned you know having a vision here you know what do what do we want I think you know I think what everybody wants um in general I think the word fun comes to mind and as long as these changes open up that potential I think that that's exactly what we've been waiting for around here um I also had a question about like in the meantime because you did mention you know there may be some momentum but we got to be patient yeah um in the meantime you mentioned one of the uh stipulations about the offices was that um then go on the second floor and listed in there was I I I'm pretty sure I saw medical MH so if I want to open up a physical therapy office should I be putting it on the second floor this is just a very specific example yeah um because um my my curiosity is is there fluidity built within any of this to allow for in the meantime um if we're not getting an influx of fun restaurants breweries etc etc uh we might have somebody who wants an office or one of these ideas up there that was like more of a hybrid typee of business was is there anything built in to allow for that kind of fluidity or so I don't think that type of fluidity really exists within the municipal land spot and that's For Better or Worse the the world in which we need to operate so there's no there's really no such thing as a like a temporary variance or a temporary use that might be permitted it's either permitted or it's not and so a physical therapy office that's a doctor's office or medical office in terms of your definition if this ordinance were adopted yes that would have to be on the upper story or perhaps a basement or perhaps on a side street on the first floor within the DB district and but there's no way for me to say yes for the next three years that's just simply not not an option here in we so G's building has an elevator on Main Street it has several floors above so that would work the Victorian Plaza also has an elevator and has a second floor and a first floor uh I'm just St out in the Deni building as well most side street but um the ordinance will allow right correct me if I'm wrong the back of any building on Main Street on the first floor so if you take you take printex building which is currently available for rent they could put a physical therapist in the back half of that first floor couldn't they because it's got a back entrance yep so as long as it does not face Main Street um as long as it was not face Main Street it would be permitted essentially so they could put an office back there they could put any of these medical uses back there as well yes the front would have to be retail service but the back could fit what the council president just talked about yeah absolutely I have a question that kind of ties into that okay I think the interpretation of active use is very difficult sure um because an AC of use could easily I mean I've I've been to the physical therapist you know over over time I'm I'm very clapsy I've hurt my ankle a few times and it's a very active place with appointment after appointment after appointment so for me an active use is people going in and out a lot right no matter what they're doing and having visibility on on a main street is important for any business um so I guess my concern is the interpretation of what an active business is um and with the removal of the siic codes which is something that you know we've D dreamed about for for at least almost a decade and a half um and has been um something that many many municipalities have have have tried to phase out and we are slowly but surely we did it a couple years ago with some of the other um zones so this is the next step that's great but I'm just concerned about um just like the SIC codes were too controlling and too limiting in some respects because it was very much um I'm using this as an example this isn't you have an the an engineer is listed as an sic but an architect isn't so you know but they one would argue there were similar uses right um that's not what rsic codes say but I'm just using it as an example so I guess we're almost limiting ourselves in another way with with this um relying on the word active I think so I just want to I want to you clear so I'm using the word active uh I'm not using the word in an ordinance that I'm preparing for the Bor so who is interpreting that the code official the zoning well the word active is not is not found in a zoning ordinance for Flemington and and I wouldn't recommend it precisely for that reason because I think it is something that's hard to Define but I think thinking about what you want in your downtown is appropriate in terms of active activity and active uses because because I think what the my understanding is the vision is folks that want folks want a vibrant downtown that a lot of people are going to for shopping Services dining Etc so um but I agree it's it's hard to Define but I encourage folks to think of the use because I think that's one there's really two components that I think folks want to promote in the downtown and that is uh active uses so you want that foot traffic going in in and out of stores or uh buildings rather um and then the other one is this concentration of complimentary uses so that the burrow can serve as a destination for these complimentary uses so it's a destination for uses for sales and services in part for your residents and that's why I went through uh the different the different types of retail but it's also a concentration of sales and services for visitors to the burrow um I guess my my concern is that the let's continue with the conversation on complimentary complimentary uses um because if someone's going to the physical therapist and then they're done and they go grab their cup of coffee next door so I do think there's there's when sitting on the planning board for years we we relied on I I always thought that variances were the way that um if it didn't quite match up you went for a variance and and um if it didn't match up from a size standpoint or from a use standpoint or whatever the situation was um because you had reasonable people kind of looking at it and going yeah this makes sense or this doesn't make sense um I think we're we might be boxing ourselves into a corner a little bit um and but I think that your question of does the does the propos Al does the ordinance allow for that flexibility that's what variances are for again so it's you're kind of R you're going you're going back to the same system that you always had which is um if it doesn't fit people can ask for a variance that was the case now then and it's the case you know now it'll be the case in the future yep that was part of the reason that we had the conversation with Pat raldi our Zing officer was also to make sure that that his interpretation fit the vision um that that he was he was seeing what we saw um and we mean not only the subcommittee but the entire planning board which unanimously said move this forward keep moving this forward it's it's right on target so um I'm gonna get back to the council president did you have any other questions I do so you know have obviously an abundance of expertise I played Sim City once so what do you seeing um Trend wise is it I would assume it would be consistent with all that we outlined here but you know we all sit up here and we have to like when we talk about this we we our main thing we always do is like compare we of hin what have I seen you know and I always go to the obvious Somerville or Red Bank or stuff things are are you seeing like this is this is how things are moving this is what's been happening to in the market I mean so in I would say smaller downtowns like like you and I would say you including places that are larger than Flemington like Somerville but but not uh not Philadelphia or major city but smaller downtowns the term that I keep hearing over and over in oreg again is experiential retail or maybe destination because the the old downtown districts that thrived in decades past are really just outdated at this point and they don't fit today's economic model because when folks when you need I don't know when you need a pair of socks or you need a pair of quick shoes a lot of people are just tuing on the computer and going to you know the Amazon of their choice essentially to order it most people are not walking downtown the retailers know that and so the the old shoe shops are and they're exceptions out there but the the standard Shoe Shop they don't exist in downtown anymore it's maybe a high-end shoe store and high-end shopping district but that is not what we're talking about and so what you need to do is create an experience for folks that are going to an area you got to be sort of extra inviting because just simply having the shoes for sale is not enough anymore you need to create an experience where it's convenient and fun I think was your word so it's got to be convenient in the sense they've got to be able to get in they've got to be able to park someplace convenient and then not just go to their their destination oftentimes that's not enough to be a draw you want them to be able to say you know what I want to buy that gift from my friend whose birthday is coming up and while I'm there I want to stop at this store I want to pick up this a couple dog treats at the a harness for my dog at the dog store I want to pick up you know an antique at the home place I'm going to pick up the the gift for my friend and then I'm going to meet my uh my other friends and we're going to go to dinner in downtown and that is an experience for folks and that's really what is what is necessary to be a a thriving retail district and I think it also dovetails with one of the requests that I had referenced in this presentation that came from the FCP and that is about making sure that the events and the classes that a lot of retailers are using to drive C customer loyalty and activity you know outside just simply buying the thing that they sell they find that that's necessary in order for their individual retailers to create uh an experience and to be a destination for their customers and so you can see it being requested on the small scale with that with that small example of an accessory use and what I'm what I'm recommending for the burrow is really that same concept on a larger scale about trying to do that for in this example all of Main Street trying to create an experience and a destination for yes for your residents definitely we want folks to that live here to be able to come to downtown and hit several activities that are interesting to them but also to bring folks to the bough from outside uh that want to come here for an experience and for an afternoon or evening we're not creating Disneyland no we're the county seat we have business to prend to I mean I moved here because I could walk to the bank and to the post office to the you get my passport and I mean so there's people coming into town doing serious business with court then you know whatever else needs to be done I don't know if the market can support this to an extreme what did you envision when you voted for this in 2015 and 2022 but what was on what's in the master plan and how it's being interpreted are are two different things I'm not saying this isn't um a good idea I just think that it needs to be carefully implemented and and we haven't really got to that part yeah can I ask you something so for these right let's say examples of towns and what you described the experiential retail and stuff like that um I'm guessing we're looking at places like kind of like Lambertville Clinton Somerville Frenchtown they obviously allow these kinds of spaces to exist but in any of these towns they get their by eliminating these other uses as well I don't I don't think I know um you know I'm really familiar with lamberville having grown up in that area and I don't recall a lot of offices ever being located along bridge and and Union Street I can't tell you that they weren't permitted but I can tell you that they didn't that there was never a large concentration of them I can say with certainty for lamberville Clinton Somerville they have not illuminated uh offices at all I didn't look at Renown yet but you know they still have that as a permitted use in what we consider the main destination spot it's just that they've been overtaken through other methods not by eliminating them entirely so I think it's a slippery slope right I mean I think that's the whole I think that's where I'm here it's a slippery slope people come into a to go to a doctor or go to a financial planner or go to whatever the case may be um and then they tend to go shopping or they tend to go to a store or they tend to go to a get a bite to eat whether it's a Bago or going for lunch or what up to I I can say this with with with all certainty I've traveled to the United States big time for work right and I've gone to very small towns such as a Flemington and I've gone to bigger towns such as such as A lamber Bill and a little bit bigger towns such as a Princeton and a little bit bigger time so I mean i' I've seen the the be and I get where you're going I I I really really get where you're going I think what what the slippery slope is is that if you put a business in the back of a building does that necessarily help that with that necessarily something that somebody's going to go for right because I'm just thinking of a doctor solice is that something they're going to go for because they want to be highly visible or a financial planner or whatever the case may be and I'm not saying that this is that this is wrong I'm just saying that I understand the slippery slope of it all right um so I do like the idea that is it's expanding because I think that's a really good idea and I saw some of the some of what was going and I think it's an excellent idea um I think where I think I'm clearing some issues um is that I guess there's two things so we can detonate all of this as retail in the front my question my my caution is and that's not a question it's a caution doesn't mean it's not going to happen is that if we what is the like how many of those people actually want to come in what what is the inventory for people wanting to come in first of all right because then that kind of dictates what you're going to do as well right um and and if they don't come in then we have these storefronts that are empty the BS may be full but the fronts are empty and so we're back at the same place I'm just I'm I just understand the slippery slope I'm not by by no means my pushing back on this at all I I actually think it's a really good idea I'm just bring the caution so I think that's the point and I don't think it's a really good idea to compare and I heard this the other night and I and I agree with this and I started going back and thinking about some of my travels we're smaller than a Somerville we're smaller than a Princeton we're smaller that we're probably the size of like a French town maybe maybe I don't know um and so we only have so much square foot to deal with but the other thing is is that when you look at there's retail and then there's restaurants the issue is the restaurants because we don't really have the capacity for to flip buildings for restaurants unless someone's going to spend a lot of money to do it right I mean that's just the reality I mean you just got to be real with this um but we do have things that we can put in um that um targets I mean what I see is there's potential to Target things for younger people to come in right because that's who it's going to spend because here's here's the reality right this is the reality this is when I was in Advertiser and I remember this and it's still true today the highest Expendable income comes not from you and I our ages it comes from the kids it comes from 9 10 12 15 16 18 year olds they have a lot of money they really do and they spend a lot of money and so if we can Target something like that to bring younger people in to give to encourage them to walk and down L Street and have fun in little bit then I think you're on something I know I'm kind of going around but again I think it's a really good idea I don't see anything wrong with this I just see some cautionary house that's all I want to tell them um what our zoning officer told us tonight about the for the old T's house that he gets he's been getting continues to get calls asking if a permitted use of the old t-berry's house is a restaurant and he continues to tell them yes it is and then they all find out out that it now needs you know the whole building needs to be sprinklered under DCA code and everybody Freaks and yells at him like but you said it was permitted use he's like it is a permitted use there's a big difference permitted use and the code building code are two different things your point but yeah I mean there's a ton of interest in putting restaurants in sington but DCA makes it expensive as does just general construction for restaurant but again I just want to reiterate I think this is a good idea I'm not pushing back on it at all I I just want to put that on I'm I I I do think there really is some like I hear I do hear what Susan and Trent are saying I that's that's in my mind right now because I hear that there's some validity to both what you're saying I just you know just amazing that so I'm gon to Circle back to the council president do you have any other questions good you are okay do you want to respond to that yeah I just wanted just a little food for thought uh no pun intend it with the restaurants but uh you know but but more related to the office concern and I I hear the concern but a couple things um yes while the proposal does state that offices are not permitted on the first floor and that is a significant change I do want to highlight that there are a there's a lot of space within the burrow where office space is permitted in addition to the upper stories it's the TC district for example it's the HR district and so in terms of there being available inventory of land or buildings for office space I think the burrow still has still has plenty of opportunities for both occupancy of existing buildings as well as construction of new office space however the other thing that I do want to recognize is the fact that the office Market is going very poorly in hunon County now we are the county seat and so you guys do still have offices in downtown but that's sort of of unique quite honestly because office as a whole is struggling and if you look at hun in County as well um there it's uh it's no different let me put it that way um and so while I do I recognize the concern for office uh tenants and and potential future office tenants I I do want to highlight just the fact that office space right now is is not a is not a moving industry if you that's a good point I mean that's a really valid yeah and you know to the extent and then Susan you talked about like some particularly active office uses and yeah they're out there I I admit that but it's not it's not every use it's not it's not an attorney's office it's not a planner's office that's for sure um and you know it's not a lot of other different offices and we do have this variance process so if you are an office use whether it's physical therapy and I don't want to pick specific uses but you you have a an office use that is that you that you think is partic is a bit different active would be more of a compliment to the downtown I would say that is exactly why we have the variance process because it is impossible to plan for every potential outcome and frankly I don't think it should be a goal we should do our best to plan for likely outcomes but the idea that we can accommodate every potential that might be a good idea is is just it it just doesn't it's not possible so I don't think it should be a goal of ours um so and then the last thing the bottom line is change takes time and it takes patience and so I come back to again as you struggle is this a good idea is this what we want for the downtown I would emphasize what do you want for downtown in 10 years from now what do you want it to look like in 15 years from now because that's the question that needs to be answered and that's what should be ating changes that you consider this year just a develop point because it's not about what you want next year to look like no that you're absolutely right actually it's more like 20 years from now yeah it's not even 10 15 it's really 20 years from now um well because change is so slow yes and we don't know what the econom is going to do and we don't know how things are going to flip because just think about it people are doing online ordering that Mak flip again because now we're starting to see people going back into like malls so is getting ready to flip again so you just never know that's why I'm saying it just flips so I I I I always say you have to plan for 20 years love do you have any questions I do um I just I I'm just highly skeptical of this I just I I'm curious to see where this is work like I don't think just by you know I I'm curious to see how many of the if we adopted it you know with the proposed uses we have what amount or percent of buildings that we have uh you know or offices that we have right now uh just wouldn't be valid uses anymore and what number uh that is um a lot of buildings on Main Street aren't particularly well suited to retail uh on the first floor as it stands and would require I mean I'm assuming major renovations to make it possible uh to have a retail use like we want to see it's not that I don't want to see retail in the downtown I just don't think that we can like induce demand for for retail um if it's if it's not there through you know Wishful zoning um I I just don't think it'll be an effective strategy I mean like you said offices are on the decline well good maybe we won't have to do anything and they'll just naturally die off and be replaced with retail I suppose in in 10 to 20 years if that's how the trend is going um I just want to say like you know not permitting them at all I don't think is going to be a good or healthy way to get there um the other thing was curious about not related to downtown business district at all then was um you mentioned breweries being a permitted use in the highway retail Zone I like to think of myself as an anti- drunk driving kind of guy um and the idea of the word Highway retail and Brewery it it just doesn't it seems strange to me um if it was on the side of the burrow I understand that yes the majority of people who are going to go to and from anywhere in town is probably going to be a through car anyway it's going to be people coming in from RAR to Township it's just that you know I know that 100% of them are going to go there that way if they're on one side of the highway whereas okay maybe only like 80 to you know 70 to 80% of them will be that way on the other side of the highway um but that's that's pretty much it I don't know a brewery overlay for half of the the uh uh you know Highway retail Zone chimmy Rock which is a sports bar it is technically and I know people have done it you can cut through the baseball field there a yeah um that's why say I understand we do have existing places on the highway I'm not trying to promote more of than essentially that's all um I just want to wa one other than the couple of Victorian house on Main Street yeah um and the Chamber of Commerce which was a law office sure everything else everything else up until 200 and good was retail they all those little tiny building all retail stores sure they are suitable for ret well then it's possible that they'll go back to being that but the market has not sustained it that's just to your point you said they're not suitable retail they were all retail well then but we permitted offices back then right there were offices permitted on Main Street back then and things changed you know it's not going to this isn't just going to like magically create the demand for retail where there isn't any um I I think it should be flexible would I prefer to see a retail shop in any of these places on Main Street absolutely I would but I also don't want to see a vacant storefront because you know uh somebody that wants to open a law office would have to go through a you know $10,000 the variance uh to to do so or they listen to that and they go where it's already a permitted use and we have plenty of mty office space now including the most beautiful Victorian home in blomington burough Ros lawn which sits there empty and dying which is zoned office uh as well as other uses so um you put them where you want them and do you have any other questions I what's the purpose of keeping DB1 and BB2 separate uh the I think the the purpose is they really have two different characters so DB1 is just main stream predominantly predominantly main stream plus you know little side street uh activ uh side street areas as well and most of the DB1 is characterized with buildings located pretty much at the sidewalk or really close and so uh I think that's differentiated from the db2 district where the character for those districts are mostly buildings set different field yeah so they have Lawns there's there are more residences uh in the I don't know about a number but in proportion to the total properties more residences in the db2 district and overall I would say it has a lower intensity feel compared to Main Street you have any questions um yeah uh I Trent actually answered asked a couple of my questions I wanted to get some clarification on the higher education elements um you know one of the items the master plan has is finding a location for higher education in general being that we're the only County Seat in New Jersey that does not have a a higher education you know in in in the County Seat in some way shape or form are are you saying that the the there's no Hing education permitted anywhere in the DB District today no in The Proposal that year uh the proposal take some pictures of the and can we get a copy of this proposal I guess the this when so um for higher education higher education Learning Centers those are both proposed to be permitted in the DB District excluding the first floor higher education is basically post High School Learning Center is for children essentially uh and so those would be permitted uses on upper stories or or the basement essentially or essentially not facing Main Street a condition so would be an example what would be an example of of the higher education coming into the second floor third of curious it might be um in my town for example we have um uh who is it it's a Paul Mitchell doesn't matter but it's a school for uh for folks learning uh Salon trade like hair makeup hair color that and and they are actually on the uh in this different example but it is on the upper story of a a strip mall in in my town um you might also have a school for I think they they'll do schools for like paral leals or maybe um some nursing understood okay I just wanted to figure okay thanks I I I don't necessarily know if it's a bad thing for to have a a one entire building dedicated to a higher education campus um so I these are these are very minute details um the the HR comment about adding a brewery there there's no breweries permitted right now does that include distilleries as well or one and the same when you say Brewery mean Brewery and distiller correct okay um for some reason the TC Zone still looks choppy to me around town and I was wondering if there was any any if the committee at all took a look at you mean the boundaries of it yeah and and and I was wondering if the committee at all took into consideration perhaps capsulating some of the closer ones to the DB or the db2 I don't know if there's even any opportunity there I just caught my eye from the graphic you know the this current round of ordinance review hasn't hasn't had that discussion generally what happened before was the TC District encompassed uh was revamped in terms of permitted uses and then it was uh revised to generally Encompass the PO District your professional office District that existed the um how would something like years ago um there was an interior design store on Main Street I bought all my kitchen light from there if you recall she also did Interior Design Services um and actually there was another interior designer on street not too long ago that that recently left how is that interpreted by this new proposed ordinance so if you're if it's a um a service where you're going in to uh to say select Fabrics consult with the designer uh purchase perhaps furniture that they sell uh that's building materials I guess what's that buildings and materials Home Improvement yeah I've been to design stores where there they have fabric samples for maybe curtains and Furniture there's and they might be selling some home decor items as well they've got some tables and lamps and whatnot for sale and then you might also consult a designer while you're there that would be a mix of retail sales and services if you are an interior design uh consultant that is the distinction I'm trying to make is you're interior designer that might do for example a lot of commercial work I've worked with interior uh designers who partner with architecture companies for example to do tenant fit outs of Office Buildings that isn't office use so that's the that I think we're gonna we're we're struggling with and I know the mayor mentioned why did I vote for the last two Master plans but the master plan is aspirational so you know you're looking at a big picture this is a good idea hey Council hey committee you know let's dive into this deeper so you know I'm not saying that there isn't you know bad ideas here but this is a very Progressive and kind of radical idea to have it have this the entire like the main street and I don't know any I don't even know if there's any municipalities in New Jersey that have the entire length um especially our I mean we have a a long length of Main Street you know we've talked about in the planning board having quarter quarter um mile walking areas I I'm not necessarily against the the idea it's it is aspirational and it's a good goal but putting it into practice I think is challenging especially with our existing inventory I think we do we have to be very careful about how we implement this if we implement this because it will be a big burden on the landlords um and as well and and I'm I'm really concerned about that if our existing inventory we can maybe identify certain areas where this um kind of progressive idea is would be more successful than other parts of of of the the downtown district I to the point where maybe we only do a block um and I think one of the other things that Jeremy had said is is there anything that we can do to um kind of offset if we do do something like this may maybe an idea to offset the burden of the the landlords is to do something like wave fees if you do need a variance in this district for this period of time there's things we can do on a municipal level that might support or balance the concerns of a homeowner as well so yeah I I worked hard on I'm very proud of the fact that I I worked hard on this the the the you know all the the master plans we did from 2000 2005 2014 2015 and 2022 but putting it implementing it is different than an aspirational goal that you you announced in a master plan a master plan is a announcement these are are this is you know my ideal so sometimes the ideal isn't necessarily perfectly implemented and we need to take that into consideration when we moving forward I think that's one of the main reasons why Beth to have Pat Ral talk to us um and he did most of the talking um going over how this would be implemented and it was exactly the um the kind of discussion that Beth raised uh and the distinction between interior design and interior decorator and so that the interpretation by Pat would fit the vision and um well like I said you had called out you had pointed out that I had voted for the two last Master points I wanted to defend my position why you voted for it you are saying now that you are not in favor of doing retail but I didn't say that I just said that we need to be careful of how we the details of how we implement it um so there's a there's a big difference um the but it's not and just clarication there are a lot of Office Buildings outside of this area again the Grom building the Deni building the Deets building Victorian Plaza Rose Lawn you know I completely agree the egg auction there are a ton of Office Buildings in town you know of course people want to be right in the hub of Main Street because you know what for whatever reason but you know at five o'clock those buildings go dark and they're beautiful buildings right but at five o'clock they're dark the lawyers go home they roll up their carpet actually the in in 20 I was going for my masters in planning and one of my first assignments was to come to my hometown and read the master plan and our master plan in 2000 said we need more offices that's what I it believe it or not and it was It was kind of I chuckle when I think about it no because and and that was around the time that the uh County picked up and moved half of their offices over to Route 12 so you know I I get it um I just I have a a I have a I have a concern of how we're defining office is a realist is a is you know every town has a real estate office on you know face you know forward facing on their Main Street um uh you know the the county uh passport you know office is a governmental office that does services that you know people go in and out and so I I'm I'm hesitant um I I think if we Implement something like this we almost have to be as detailed as we were with the sick codes in that we need to show uh exceptions to the rule not using SI codes but I think we do need and you started that I can see that in your presentation you have exceptions to the rules and I think those are the things the those minute details are really important if we do go forward with this so I'm not saying that I wouldn't vote for it I'm not saying it's not a good idea I'm not saying that I was one of the people that said hey first floor office isn't the best for a m you know for your for your master plan so let's encourage active uses but that doesn't mean that this is perfect it's not we've got lots of work to do um one one of the other little details I'm referring to is the when we had redone the area by tberry so the V District area we had talked about artisian live work units in those areas find it interesting that we're actually trying to flip it here you know a couple blocks away so I I think that might be something we want to think about seriously whether that's something we want or not I was a little confused on that and I'm sure you're I'm sure maybe I'm misinterpreting the intent of like whether or not we want to incorporate live board units yeah I was a little confused and and maybe and like I said the slide went fast so I wasn't sure where it was tbb2 and what was the intention with the live work work units so we're not specifically permitting live work in the DB or the db2 district but I think as a practical matter live work would be permitted meaning that you would you're allow to have apartments or housing units on the upper stories with a commercial use on the first floor so that inherently would permit a live work situation where somebody might have their shop or whatever the case may be on the first floor and and have their apartment above but not our but that that work part of the live work unit couldn't be our our Artisan manufacturing no not on the first floor okay that that's that's where I was coming from on in both the DB and the db2 district is that's what yeah for Artisan manufacturing Art Studio that would be permitted but art manufacturing which is not uh not active use that's really somebody going in to their shop to make their art doors closed okay and then maybe I'm misinterpreting the word manufacturing versus yeah I think of artisan a studio somebody's there you know they're painting but it's it's they're selling their products as well they might also be doing glasses and activities that's also permitted but predominantly they're selling their work they're also creating the work in the in the space but it's but it's got a uh like a forward facing Main Street facing economic focus in the sense that there's uh sale activities there might also be other activities that are permitted in the building for manufacturing use it is just it is simply a workspace for an artist okay it does not have studio and sales associated with and is is it in your is it is it your intention to Define some of these you know that that Nuance that I just described that I Mis misunderstood in the in the quick presentation so we have we have definitions right now for art studios and art manufacturing artists in studio and artist manufacturing and the the only reason that that did not provide this to the government body is because she met with FCP last night Pat raldi today and then the council tonight so she didn't have time to that's fine I'm not I'm not so she's gonna I'm not criticizing I just want to understand the det gonna get it and that's the reason you haven't is because of those things I just want to also share an ironic story um the owner of prch uh which is now available for rent the second floor has two apartments and the third floor has one apartment the second floor also has a large space which for 75 years was my grandfather's tailor shop and for the last 20 years has been prex conference for and he decided he wanted to make it into apartment and it is not an accepted use so it's Zone commercial up there and he was denied uh a permit to turn it into an apartment and he called me and he said it's $5,000 for me to bring an attorney into the planning board what do I do I said you wait a month and see if this ordinance passes because then the apartment will be accepted use so doesn't necessarily have detrimental effects for people I did talk to him about the first floor he was non plused by you know the idea that he could do an office in the back and Retail in the front and or service in the front he was fine with that he was more concerned about the fact that he can't put an apartment on the second floor because it has always been a commercial use I'm sorry which is weird I don't I got one last one oh that's okay um to between yeah uh right we were talking about how DB1 db2 different they got a different feeli between Captain Street and like mine Street or maybe Williams right we've got a lot of those businesses that have the you know barge open Windows Frontage right there on the sidewalk and then below there south of that we have kind of the houses that have kind of been converted into restaurants and shops over the years and they're kind of set far farther back away I hate to even propose the idea but if we can considered BB3 another another downtown business district because I I mean honestly I'd be interested to see how this worked for maybe a smaller section of it like you know between mine Street and cner Street um and saying you know those shops are all just this kind of retail um it's a b or consideration to make you drop thank you I'm sorry counc are you finished I was finished I really wanted to let Liz go before um counc vice president res thank you mayor um so I just wanted to kind of make sure I I'm understanding correctly that there are exceptions to all businesses who are currently there right they're not having to leave is that correct that's correct I wouldn't say it's an exception but that's that's how the law would be applied to them if you so they're permitted that would be prohibited you not going to be required to be it's ex nonconform correct existing nonon per use and then if they were to leave another business could still come in is that correct as well yes it has to be the same business so that's why uh so an example I used earlier would be uh an existing lawyer vacates a space it could be reoccupied by another legal use it could uh law use rather um it could not be for example be occupied by a doctor's office that might be you know office very generally but specifically that's going from a uh a lawyer's office to a medical office and those are two separate uses okay and then do we I'm kind of putting you on the spot you might have have this right now but do we know how many offices we currently have in the district compared to like a percentage wise a rough estimate I don't have that level of detail one of the things that we that we did with the subcommittee was we looked at the uses within the the various buildings along Main Street but it was uh more of a general uh a general view as to whether not it was a fully office build building versus say a mixed commercial building that might be a mix of professional offices services and sales um or if it's just simply a retail building can I interrupt you for a second Liz were you asking specifically about Law Offices just on Main Street or throughout the Barrow um in the DB1 District like how many offices are currently offices not necessarily law though but if you have anything let me know we had 19 as of my last count throughout the burrow entirely I don't know about just Main Street I'm sorry was that law or just office just law okay just law and then there might be some other office I know there's like a doctor's office right somewhere a dermatologist or dentist or things like that um orthodontist right so I guess I guess my where I'm kind of processing is that as we someone else pointed out it's very expensive to change a use of a building right so in theory it's kind of somewhat likely that if a law office was going to leave maybe another one would come in or if orthodontist leaves right another dental office might come in so that's all I'm I'm not really trying to you know convince anything of um to anyone but just that you know we do have a lot of offices already so that's something to consider that they may still remain offices even though we're changing the permitted use going forward can you um educate all of us on the um certification of non-conformity that they're all entitled to that yes so uh let's say the the ordinance is passed uh General as discussed where offices are not permitted on the first floor minus the the conditional use and so what that means is they are they are um uh non-conforming uses and what I would what the municipal land use law allows for and what I would recommend is for tenants or Property Owners with those existing uses that are now prohibited they're non-conforming uses they can apply to the zoning office within one year of the ordinance change to re EST a certificate of non-conforming use and that essentially is a zoning officer certification that the the lawyer's office existed in that building as of that time and what that does is it confers specific rights as a uh a non-conforming use meaning that it's essentially the zoning officer certifying that the use was created legally based upon ordinances in place at that time but by virtue of a change in zoning the use is now non-conforming uh but existing and that's important because it means that if that if that office use in this example uh seeks to expand their building it puts them in a different category of use variants and importantly puts them in a category that it is easier to obtain the use variant so it's a very advantageous position for those Property Owners to be in they have one year to get that certification from the zoning officer but if they don't get it within one year it just means they simply need to go to the zoning board your planning board uh using its zoning board powers to uh to essentially issue the same certification if it finds appropriate so how do we communicate that to them that's the bigger thing right it I would say it's simply uh in whatever form of Outreach the the burrow finds most successful you might want to partner with organizations that have a regular communication with business own such as the FCP so that's an FCP function to do that to reach out well with it with help well let me put it this way FCP is over that so FCP so we're handing that over to FCP to communicate that as as well as pushing it onto our website as well as I'm just I'm just my concern is that you're making if this is passing how is that communicated so everybody's on the same page and gets the same message so and a year later comes through and someone says I've never I I don't know anything about this I've never heard this or whatever because nobody's ever reached out that's that's my concern is that something Beth that you could write for the like write a letter to the business owners on behalf of the buau in pling language and plain English that we could walk down Main Street Tony and I hand in hand and hand out to all the businesses and say give this to your owner give this to your landlord give this to whoever you want and that way at least I think it's a twostep think the I'm not going to depend on them to give it to the landlord I think we need to know the landlord's name and information and we need to send that to the landlord and let the landlord know that because the business owner is I mean they have no skin in the game to be perfectly honest have that in the chuit so we can certainly do mailing direct mailing to them I think that type of Outreach and communication to folks is a great idea how exactly how that gets done should be taor to what works best here in the B but something you could write for us yeah and I would recommend English yeah I think that that language should come from somebody in the it need more than one letter it needs to be a followup just just to again I get a letter I put it on the side and say yes okay just but as a followup just to make sure that we're covered they are covered and we're all walking in you know one rope One Direction um so yeah okay yeah I think that's great thanks so what's the next step I think the next step is is for me to take the input that I've gotten recently from the FCP the zoning officer the subcommittee and the council uh revise some of the ordinances work with our subcommittee to get them to a point where uh planning board subcommittee is happy and then pass them on to the council if the council's inclined to introduce you could do so as early as your next meeting okay the the planning board um when they reviewed this were they were content enough to say that correct they did not need to see it again yeah that's correct they they reviewed it they provided our commentary but they did not ask for uh a revised version to be sent back to them so uh as a as part of any adoption process it'll be introduced by the council it will then go back to the planning board for master planning review so they will have an opportunity to review the ordinance once again to review it specifically compare to determine if it's consistent or not with the master plan but it's it's also an opportunity for them to make comments if they see fit um and then of course comes back here for public hearing Sharon do you have any comments work um yeah I just one point that kept coming out was about the inventory concerns about what we have and what can possibly be done with them did I say it wrong um and that was discuss that was discussed that the FCP are committed to they don't have a full inventory right now but it came from them that they're considering pulling together an inventory and almost um identifying which buildings to trans Point are easiest to convert and which aren't and which can f have some focal point for the easier transition work with the landlords on that and that there's also um opportunities for Grants there's also the opportunity for the our program which we need that they could if they're spending money on the property they can get an abatement we need to get that as part of the Outreach um we've also offered to the FCP that if they have a meeting of um landlords and tenants Beth and I will totally come along and explain if there's any uh questions that they have in terms of Outreach to make sure that everybody's aware of how this may move forward in the easiest way for everybody I don't think it should be if they have I think it should be I hope they do abely I think this is just so big and such and such a change that we have to you know I'm all about over communicating this has to be overc communicated but everybody has skin in the game whether it's the planning board a subcommittee a Beth Or console or everybody has skin in the game so everybody has to play a role and everybody has to take the lead on the RO so I do agree the FCP it's not should you do it it's you need to do it and you need to give us a date that you're going to do right but we're totally open to support them whatever they want to do on that and vice versa we we've been absorbing everything that everybody's been saying Karen was there any discussion in the subcommittee um about you know we've all discussed before about how Lambertville is different than downtown Flemington Clinton is different than downtown Flemington I'll use Clinton because there's it's a very small small dense very close together um example we have a lot um and it's more than just two um uh banish his office we have the um Chamber of Commerce we've got um uh uh the other where where Safe Harbor was where um uh the right next to right next to uh bread and culture those are three on that side that are former Mansion single were they were former single family homes at one point was there any discussion about making exemptions to the to the no office on the first floor rule for those types of structures because unlike Clinton and unlike Lambertville we have a actually have a lot of those examples along the DB District but are you talking about spot on because we can't do that well exactly and that's where and that's do we can't do spot zoning as Beth said so we have to put general rules in and things can come from VAR everybody has to get a variance if they you know like I'm just the idea Devil's Advocate right the idea of this is as be to Beth's point we're trying to cover 98% of the opport of the of the suggest of the possibilities and that we can't cover that last 2% unless we get too specific which we're not allowed to that if they home again they could do that we discussed that in the master plan at one point I don't know if it's in the ordinance yet it's if you're in if so was a long time ago so in the DB District we permit existing single family homes but I can't I I don't have a way to allow commercial uses in some buildings to go back to single family homes but not others did you did in the subcommittee I'm sorry but it's kind of lead did you guys consider an overlay for again within the DB Zone a just for the denser areas that may be exclude you know like out instead of instead of changing the entire Zone in its you know in its entirety perhaps choose an overlay where some of these rules would be most effective or perhaps that's the way we implement this in a smaller scale where we're we're really focusing our density and are focusing our efforts on a one or two block area with an overlay versus changing the entire uh Zone did the did the subcommittee think about that at all because that would be legal wouldn't it so we didn't talk about an overlay but we talked about different versions to I think get to the same results and with the question of essentially do we want to see retail you know I'm referring to Main Street but it's not literally all of Main Street it's really uh from uh about roughly Church Street up to roughly Pennsylvania Avenue and then beyond that it's maybe the TR District or transitional residential or the TC District but did we asked the question amongst ourselves do we want to have retail Retail Services these active uses along all of the DB District along Main Street or do we want to concentrate it towards the center of town more or less and the thought process was essentially what is the vision the vision is for uh walkable active downtown district with retail restaurants and all bues that are permitted throughout that entirety of the DB district and so that's why you don't see distinctions with um with conditional uses or overlays in that district with the exception of of the uh The Limited changes down there like for example permitting uh single family homes on the the northern and southern edges so to speak of the Main Street D so is the committee G to meet again before you do your your revision two so maybe I I just like I'd ask maybe the committee without boring everybody more to death um to consider perhaps the idea of you know really drum down to okay where are the where are the properties that are the most you know um in need what's the inventory that's been um empty the longest and you know the the two that I can think of are right right across the street from the union hotel and right next to the union hotel right those so and they just happen to be that in the block that's the most dense that's as much similar to Clinton as you could get with the with those two blocks H I'm just saying maybe look at it from a different perspective and maybe that might help some of the outlying concerns um just an idea suggestion if I I'd be much more open to this if it was like a much more limited experiment kind a similar to what Susan saying like you know like I said between cner M somewhere around there surrounding Union hotel Redevelopment project this kind of zoning yeah it might make sense it probably work for the whole strip though it's just it's a lot but that's all think about db3 it could be huge I don't know so um I'm gonna Beth is so close to having this thing finished she was just waiting for all this feedback I am going to ask her to finish this ordinance and U meet with the committee again planned get it we get it done consider what the council woman asked for rest of the subcommittee says um councilwoman fararo is on the subcommittee and is very supportive this uh idea and um was putting out there because she's home sick tonight and I'm going to suggest that uh Beth get it to the entire Council for review and that she prepare it for introduction on the 25th of November and we'll see what happens okay thank you very much everybody thank you thank you so much and I loved the statement that you made about you know what do you want this town to look like in 10 15 20 years because it is really what this is you know planning is a longterm a long a longterm thing appreciate you putting that in all of our brains so have a good night thank you take care everybody all right so we're moving on to uh four my report first of all I just want to say congratulations to um Brandon Elias is heing Ladi for in the election in November early November um welcome and uh you're invited to stay through executive session um if you have the time tonight um uh there on behalf of the council I should say you're welcome thank you um so I Bill's on can youe bill in this hi Bill oh mute yourself I mute yourself Bill hi Bill hello hear me hello so um you know I wanted to just uh say thank you to Bill publicly um we got our new ratings from standard and fors it's been updated um for the first time in a couple of years and proudly they've taken us off of the watch um designation um they've recognized that this council is moving into a more fiscally sound fiscally responsible um set of policies especially where it comes to debt paying off debt and and capital um build did a lot of hard work to um do that report and me with standard ands and get that rating for us you want to add anything bill before I continue to gush over you yeah I mean they were very happy with what you know what the progress we've made with paying down debt you know that's one of the things that they really looked at and um building up our Surplus at the same time you know a lot of towns might pay down debt using their Surplus but we did both at the same time so that's what you know they were very happy with and that's got us off the the critical watch list and uh said that we're stable great and I just want to you know one of the things that the report said at least once maybe twice that we didn't have a debt policy and in spite of that they were doing this and you know I um was really upset with myself because I have written debt policies before and thought I had done one last year and I didn't so I wrote a debt policy which is now in Bill's hands um bill has reviewed it and wants to TW you know he's making one or two significant tweaks and then it'll be presented to the Council on the 25th for approval uh so we will have a debt policy you know um with your approval the next rating round and um that should take us over the over the um any concern of being put back on a Fed watch list um which you know is not something any municipality wants to be on because that's like one step away from being Dow graded so um you want to say anything no that's it okay I mean you know Bill is extraordinary I I you know I think very blessed to have him as a CFO and um and I really appreciate you know the time you took to look at the debt policy statement that I wrote and your input on it was really valuable and I appreciate that as well so I'll send it up as soon as you send you your tweaks I'll send it out to the government body okay thank thank you um well that is the really really amazingly great news um um it made my whole week when Bill shared that with me um so I have some not great news however at the same time um which is the police building um there's a lot of issues with this pit and pump system with our contractor um he is not moving quickly on this he is not listening to our architect our architect is trying not to go over her contract amount but she is being more the GC than an architect at this point and she's getting very frustrated and I asked her FL out what can we do about it and she did not have a good answer um so you know they're giving him you know Direction on what he supposed to go in and how deep it's supposed to be and how it's to be constructed and he's been pushing back um on it so I just wanted to report all that to all of you um he pushing back don't she we don't know nobody knows don't you know um doesn't our front end they're fine he is thec yes so our front end keeps fighting with him and repeating their orders on how to build the pit and pump and he wants to put the pump the pit in first they want him to build the pump and put the and build the pit around the pump he wants to build the pump and put it in afterwards they're telling him it's not going to work and this has just been like I said she's she's got limited funds as you know provided by the council um and she is not the GC and she is they've been you know I'm bringing this to your attention I have to have they're not paying them are they I I mean how do you pay somebody if they're not doing what you're telling to do well we paid him to date but not for this work because it's not done but I just there was no sequencing identified in the construction documents well remember this pit and pumping came later okay so there was no sequencing required in the change order I don't think so okay I know these are important details but I think this is a legal thing it is a legal thing and I think that we need to so the other thing I I understand that I'm not talking about the legal of it I'm just saying there that's not that saying why AR we paying them is not say we're not that's not what I said listen to what I said I said what I was asking a rhetorical question I said why are we paying so it's a rhetorical question and that has nothing to do with legal the point of it is if someone's not doing their job what do we doing to hold their feet to the fire and you don't have to answer that but the point of it is are we holding their feet to the fire Angela is trying to hold their feet to the fire over budget right but is is she the first got to go to Chris now that's what I'm trying to understand spoke on many issues in the last couple days not this one though no so this one this one is recent information you have my full attention for this for discussion tomorrow this is very recent information I this project in the beginning so so let me ask Chris you you as the the council's council are you're administering this contract correct or who is administering this contract on behalf of our CFO okay so Phil is administering this contract and so I I can give you remedies I I don't want an answer to the I don't want an answer to this question I'm just gonna this to you you can get back to the rhetorical questions guys because because we shouldn't be I guess I I I would like to know about sequencing meaning was that defined in the change order or the front end to begin with um and means and methods in other words does the does the contractor have the right to define those means and methods meaning what order he does things or does the front end or the K order Define that sure so again I'm not asking for a response don't expect one but that's the kind of question that I'd be asking maybe at the next meeting 100% we get that's fine that's fine um I also when I was in this conversation with Angela I did ask her to get us a proposal on what um the cost will be to design the Sal Port because um the Department of Corrections requires one and of course this is just another another reason to never buy a police building you have the department constructions look at it and tell you exactly what you got to do um so we have no idea of what it's going to cost so she's supposed to be working at the cost estimate uh for her fee to design the sallyport she is going to call the Department of Corrections the lieutenant who's been working with us find out what the minimum requirements they're going to have are because we certainly don't want to go Sally tell us speaking of that where are they building the um isn't there supposed to be a bathroom on this on the first floor that's the contract with that's part of the contract with the B with the downstairs that's all contract um if if and so that hasn't been that's not gonna they can't do that until they do oh I don't know where it is with I mean yeah they do if the architect if we do approve the design to go forward that you know for the architect to do the design does that Define it as a shovel ready project ready for or perhaps funding that kind of is offered to us unexpectedly when you do have an option an opportunity for shov ready projects you know that's something that we discussed in the past where if we had a shov ready project then this funding is available if we had this design done does that constitute a shovel ready project you're way ahead of me I just want to price and what charges to design it that's all I want right now we have no money for any of this so you know and it's if I have to choose chose between I mean they're being forced to put in the sally port by the department of corrections I could choose between sewer lines and Flemington that are 100 years old and a sallyport I'm taking sewer lines so um I don't I don't you're way ahead of this fine I'm just saying well paying for the design and having it ready to go for some invisible funding that we don't know about you know down the road yeah might be a might be beneficial because it costs a lot less to pay for the design up front and have it ready on the Shelf ready to pull off no I hear you but we have to get this thing built at some point you know we we know we have to do it eventually anyway so we might as well have the design on the ready to pull out um the other thing I just wanted to share with the council is that we are um very close to getting the final approvals on the um the entire Main Street from church to the circle um for the ibank funding for the lead uh and galvanized pipe replacement on the burrow side of the road um that was the last add-on and uh the I bank has indicated that we are um our project has been accepted it is not approved yet but it's accepted um we meet regularly with them on by Zoom calls and our um Bond Council Megan Bennett who has done an amazing job uh getting the delays you know everything has been you know we had the road money three years years ago and it was never used and then we held up that project to get the sewer money and then held up that project because of EPA and the galvaniz pipes and um you know Megan um Megan is an extraordinary Bond Council she's got I don't know 50 something municipality she's Bond Council for and she has an amazing relationship with the ibank so um you know on the phone the last conference call she did get them to verbally tell us that they will be forgiving most likely 100% of the sewer line replacement and 100% of the galvanized um Hye replacement but they cannot put that in writing until closing which is in January so that's about at least a million and a half dollars of forgiveness and at the very least we'll get 80% um forgiveness but it looks like we're going to get the 100% on both of those and and um leaving with us with the debt of about a million to on the road part of this which includes replacing the traffic light at church um the next um and I do have an update from the DPW I just have not gotten a chance to um type it up for their project priority list but their next priority project is M Street from church to to corer place um not none of that has been funded again we will qualify for 100% on sewer and 100% on galvanized lines um not the road uh we will get some kind of forgiveness a minimum of 25% on the road through Megan but um those water lines have to be replaced so unlike the top part of Main Street um where the water lines were done in like 1991 these water lines were not done we should qualify for 100% on that to so the game plan is to you know do these projects we have to bond for the full amount get it done bill has to get all those bills certified into the ibank they will do that forgiveness start the basically the mortgage payment on the part that's not forgiven which is the road and we'll be able to then turn that Bond debt will disappear for the rest of um the lines and the yeah the water lines SE lines whatever and then we can flip it on so we are delaying now also M Street we got that award from the do last year to do a portion of M Street those S lines are also 100 years old and um Josh is checking out to see he believes that some portion of M Street had watered lines done maybe 10 or 15 years ago but not the whole road so those water lines and the galvanized pipelines have to be done as well so this is going to be this continuous um you know doing this work getting the bond debt forgiven and then moving on to the next cycle where you know we'll be um accumulating some Road debt and hopefully paying it down in large chunks um you know we've got money coming in from Liberty Village and um that can also be used towards this we have a well to build Ian you know there's things to do but um for me and I hope you all agree progress in this town is not just what's above the streets progress is also making sure that everybody has a safe infrastructure 15 feet below the ground and that's real progress to this town because this is something that has been kicked down the road by the council for over 30 years and it's got to get done um especially when we have a funding method where we're getting so much of this money forgiven um by the state of New Jersey so um you know we can get at least $6 million for given from two from three different pots and after that it's the at least 80% for given up to $10 million from each pot so the money money is there we just have to make sure that we continue paying down debt responsibly bonding responsibly not taking it for granted that things are great in Flemington where we can you know start looking at other things that the wish list of goodies that we all wish we could pay for and buy you know bands on Main Street or whatever we've got to stay vigilant to get this stuff done and get this town like you know Beth you know what's the vision 10 years from now or 20 years from now for me it's certainly not people having sewer backups like they did this past month there were three of them in this town that were pretty bad so um okay so that's my report um council president sure um again congratulations uh to councilman Park on his re-election and uh councilman elect oras on his election looking forward to January J Tony I'm sorry congratulations on your election than cool uh all right so fire department uh the cab for the new aerial fire truck is currently being assembled uh Deputy fire chief Rob skank will be getting weekly updates from the manufacturer and I can certainly share that with the council um I've got some n pictures do you know when we're taking delivery because that's when we have to start paying for it I don't have that date as of do you know what year it going be this year or next year the cab that's it what I would say next year next year Bill wants it to be next year I want it to be next year if they're just doing the can okay we'll hope um Rescue Squad uh I have a lot of numbers for you but but I'm just going to say that um the comparison numbers from October 2023 and October 2024 uh went up um just so you know the uh calls for October 329 emergency calls and again remember this is a shared service um with BR Township brington they'll help out Delaware Township East Amell they helped actually 10 calls out there lamberville Stockton and then out of County um but Fon bur we had 75 calls uh and again uh you know Squad head wanted everybody to know that October was the busiest month on record um with 10 calls answered per day so I don't know what was going on in August but they had a lot of calls regarding uh vehicle responses there were 370 of those um made contact with 288 patients uh 227 of the patients were transported to medical facilities by Squad ambulances again the hours uh on the road have been going up uh Squad participation uh various you know fire prevention nights across uh the region uh trunk retreat at Robert hunter in R Township Squad participated of course in the trick-or treat activities in the bur of flamington um multiple drills have been completed Squad members EMTs are uh keeping up to date seven Rescue Squad members were deployed by FEMA with New Jersey Urban search and rescue Task Force One to North Carolina response to hurricanes Helen and Milton uh and the rescue squad is always looking for new members to assist them with protecting the community you can go to wwwf RF r f r f a RS say that fast.org jooin for more information and the last thing I had I got a last minute update you may have heard the fire whistle go off earlier well let me remind you we are in stage three fire restriction okay so avoid open Flames outside just same somebody was in an open Burn yeah yeah so stick to the propane contained devices we still are in a drought situation um turn talking about putting us under a complete warning which on the drought which ALS will include U uh water restrictions including on our well system and private Wells stay tuned start doing the rain dance yeah we need it we really need it um thank you Council vice president resetti thanks mayor uh not much tonight there is a shade tree meeting tomorrow evening and I'll report back to you next council meeting on that thank you very much uh Council anglehart thank you uh s Fleming house there's an open house December 14th um our monthly open house so please consider coming out and stopping by and saying hello if you've ever have you never tour the building it's really an interesting building to tour um I want to thank the police and especially the canine unit for um Coming Out we had about a dozen um uh people attend that event a couple weeks ago um the first weekend in in November um school reports uh let's see F frsd the FL Mariton School District Board of Education meeting is this Thursday November 14th at 7M jpk um this Thursday November 14th um and the high school next Board of Ed meeting is 7 pm on November 25th um that's 7:00 p.m. at the Inc building and then finally for the high school um uh there is the 1112 play um November 22nd and 23rd um I'm sorry the 11 the 11th and 12th grade play yet the 11 12 play they they do two plays every year the freshman sophomore junior seniors the 11 12 Play is based on the book and name U ant name um tickets are $8 and on sale at the schools when is it uh November 22nd and 23rd and it's it's name it's name it's one of my favorite yeah an M it's 7 pm on the 22nd which I think is a Friday 2 pm and 7 pm on the 23rd I do want to thank you uh uh councilman um uh long for mentioning the the burn again um my hometown is um under 5,000 Acres of yeah um Wester and there's 5,000 Acres burning right now and there is literally Ash falling on my sister's home and um it's uh all our friends and family are very scared up there so please keep diligent um it's really important so thank you for making that and we lost a fireman up there as well very very young fireman New York side on the New York side yes and councilman love it much to report this evening uh let's say last week we had the historic walking tour on Main Street um we had some good turnout got learn about a lot of cool buildings on there and uh next HBC meeting is next Wednesday at 7M that's everything thank you um so one of the things I will report on there's there's some things with the police Health but I need to make sure that I can say those things with them but I will say this Liz on Park Avenue they did do this this whole traffic study this is what's really interesting about the number of people coming through this town and it may be the same cars but um he they did a traffic study of um 4,592 Vehicles so what period is that over a 21 day period and holy cow the but this is my point people will stop here if there's something to stop to right that that just goes to show you how many people and that's just on one street but interesting this is for Liz is that the um maximum speed the average speed was about 31 31 miles per hour the maximum speed was 51 miles an hour um the they did violations above 35 miles an hour they issued 878 violations in 21 days I don't know if they issu violations they said violations above $ 35,000 I need to find out how many violations how many of those were well no how many of those were actual tickets and how many of those were Wars that's the question that's the question but but it goes to lizz's point because Liz actually was talking about how Park Avenue was a speeding Zone and it kind of goes to the point that then they they're still being diligent on that they also did um studies online um and on New York Avenue and they're what they're doing is they're going around the town around the bur and they're just doing it at strategic places to figure out where the speeding is really where they're having a problem but going to your point Liz I just wanted to let you know that thanks Tony I appreciate that I'm glad they're following up on all that that's great yeah um and and the other thing is again the police they were doing a lot of community outreach a lot of community outreach they're doing ice cream socials they've been at shaer Cafe um they're putting together um a Target list of communities to go into around town I mean I'm just so happy because this was one of the things that I ran on two years ago and it's all come to coition and and I'm very grateful speaking of running I am very honored to be able to be to to be able to serve again for another three years um I'm appreciative of all the support and all the Outreach and the followup I can tell you how many people have texted me emailed me and saying thank you we're really happy to have you back and so I am honored that you honor me so thank you and Brandon do you wna do you want to announce the saring for the new officer yes why don't you do that since you put me on the spot no no no so our new officer is starting will be swor in on December 2 I think um one at 1 o'm here in burall um again I'm really happy this guy's coming on board when when you meet him you will instantly like him he's just one of those people that you just F right off the bat he's just very sincere I like Frank well he's an Oldtimer he's a was a legacy he's a was CUA I mean this is new yeah like you got to upgrade yeah yeah that's what got work wait hold on and I forgot to tell Trent the rabies clinic was a big success oh you no that's why he didn't do a report 70 people oh that was the high and we only have what 75 to give out right no we had 108 shots we had shots we're gonna go into public comment session number one um please limit your comments to three minutes anybody from the public just come up to the microphone Robin I am holding you to three yeah g want to talk well say it and I don't hold you to but I am ask questions I I'm not letting it it's comment period no questions all right I'll be making comments for the next three minutes uh R thank you all right so uh we're about to turn to Christmas and and all the other wonderful Hol holidays in a big way so you'll start to see wreaths and um beautiful lights and things we are helping the Boy Scouts uh with their new they have a new tree this year which also required some new lights but we also feel that it's a really important tradition it's the 100 102 year tree lighting and um it really adds a lot to our business area um I just wanted to say that I I'm really proud that we're having these conversations I think they've been really generative and interesting and and uh will lead to very important outcomes but it is that we're all talking to each other and I think that the antidote to Wishful zoning and I love that phrase um is really is incentives around development and economic development and and growth and um one of those incentives is rewarding investment in your town whether it's a resident or it's a property owner it's a big investment to buy buildings in this town to keep buildings in this town to maintain buildings in this town and I completely agree with you that the the pipes and the under layers are just as important as what goes on a first floor or second floor um I do I do hope that we can have more conversations about cultural spaces and Community spaces because I know we keep talking about retail but what we're what's happening in retail today is that these are spaces not just to buy a thing which is what Beth said it's really to feel like you're part of a community it's to have a conversation with somebody who says you know how's your day how are you I mean and and we do have some work to do here most of those buildings that You' mentioned four or five times and that same group of buildings they need so much work and so much Financial investment just to have the elevator go up and down in Victorian Plaza it doesn't currently work you know the the stairwell is blown out that for that building and we should all demand and almost over what your time is almost over okay well we should all be sure that we're um that we are imploring the owners of buildings to maintain them and keep them up so that so that we can put meaningful things in them but I also think we should think about incenting people to do outdoor dining we should in incent people to uh do to make spaces that are good for the community not just retail um because it's really a bigger picture and I and to that end I do worry I do wonder about me being as a use like since it wasn't mentioned is that something that museum like is the historical society going to have to become a toy shop no they're they're an active they're an active fun use as kind as not retail service I don't know that that's a I don't know that we have I don't know that we've I hope that we cover all of the I'll ask we have thise whatever that is I hope that we cover all of the cultural and event and Community uses that we want that are uh that are as important and balance out retail okay thank you anybody else from the public you know you're on the agenda right yes that's why we're here okay did your name for the record please I'm Michael Scot I'm the president of CE and CEO of cea uh also race director for the 32nd turkey TR do you need to of course s o c z well for some people e k I'm also here to proudly announc that not only have we doing 32 years of the turkey shot and thank the mayor C and past and Council current and past of the support and obviously hopefully for the future too but I'll also be out of town when the next meeting after the Thanksgiving event takes place to introduce you to my associate Kyle darus he joined our staff not that long ago and no doubt he'll be able to give me a report after the event uh while I'm enjoying a beer and wine tasting in Belgium so more more to the point I understand inde the consent agenda is um involves in speak Pleasures will have you we're here to answer any questions you may have either now or during the discussion when we get to the resolution thank you so much spell your name or last name d o r e m us anybody else Inu being none part of the agenda uh appr minutes regular session October 15 2024 can I have a motion to approve is there a second second all in favor thank you executive session October 15 2024 can I have a motion please move second second all in favor I I hi uh regular session October 28 2024 um regular session minutes can I have a motion please wait hold on no you were not were you here no you weren't here at the last meeting oh yeah no was I was at the last no CH Liz read your report that was the 28 yes I resend my you can move there's no law but motion made by council is there a second second all in favor any extensions executive session October 28 2024 I have a motion please move there second second all in favor I anys thank consent agenda resolution 20243 resolution authorizing turkey Cho street closures November 28 2024 um can I have a motion please move is there a second second are you keeping the same rout you did last year exactly the same than you I thought the last year's route was shy of the 5K that was the year before when there was a problem on Broad Street where you know the whole there where jiggle around it last year we backed up the start and pulled the F forward a bit I apologize I was I was out of town last year so it three times so I remembering the two together thank you all right uh can can I have a councilwoman engart yes councilman Le yes council president long yes councilman Parker yes Council vice president yes you don't have any ordinance introduce any public hearings uh item 13 on the agenda regular agenda resolution 202454 resolution authorizing the buau of FL to accept a subgrant award of the federal fiscal year 2024 of Emergency Management performance Grant and Emergency Management agency assistance this is uh at the request of uh Sergeant um MCN MCN well I was struggling with calling a Corporal yes off um can I have a motion please is there a second second any discussion roll call please Council angle yes counc yes counc president long yes councilman Parker yes and Council vice president rosti yes resolution 20245 resolution of the bu of Flemington County of hund state of New Jersey authorizing the Bureau of Flemington to submit an application to the New Jersey water bank for Main Street Lead service line replacement Improvement is for the portion from the circle to uh Church Street uh as part of the uh Road restoration project up there can I have a motion please is there a second any discussion roll call please counc yes yes council president long yes councilman Parker yes and Council vice president yes uh we're up to public comment session number two Robin you get another three minutes I just need I just forgot to say one day that's okay thank you that we have um we we plan to bring designs if we can get on your agenda for the next meeting for some signage okay we can we can put you want it as a presentation sure okay okay thanks all right just as a reminder to everybody on Council and the public we do have an early start time at the next meeting at six o'clock for presentation by Tony Dill who uh is Consulting doing told he work for us through the D as a grant he works for the D they gifted him to us to do a uh to review our our uh storm water issues um you know there's there's laws that have come down on high from the federal government through the states uh regarding storm order and impervious coverage and storm order repairs and basically I me the bottom line is they are imposing another tax on all of us uh and you know there's there's ways I mean Rose by other name is a tax um but U there are ways to make it a little bit more palatable though it's never palatable we don't have any choice about this this is State and federally mandated across the entire country um so uh we have a six o'clock start time for anybody who wants to be here it's going to be shown on Zoom as well we'll put it up on YouTube afterwards uh so people understand exactly what's coming and when um so uh he's also been working with Baron Township Ron Township did a presentation like this a few months ago and FCP hosted one for business Community a few weeks ago so this one is for everybody else um but then the regular meeting starts at s Robin as we normal okay um we don't have any bills tonight and we do have an executive session uh negotiations Cardinal Captiva cour House Square Public Safety litigation candidus license and Personnel um can I have a motion to go into executive session move there a second second all in favor let's take a 10-minute break recording can have a motion to adjourn move second are you going to