##VIDEO ID:5rX5rVrocKc## all right I'd like to call to order the um Tuesday December 17 2024 um meeting of the planning board of lemington um please rise as you are able for Alle to the flag of the United States of America the Republic for which it stands one nation for God indivisible for liberty and justice for all Carol Mr Campion here Giffin here Mr Hill yes [Music] here is thank you Mr cook is excused miss whitesman here Mr simino here miss swingle here Mr ekle is excused Mr show is do hear me miss kazinski Mr clo Mr Troutman will be late and we have Mr Harris um for Miss mcis as our planner here thank you thank you and before I forget this the opma this meeting is called pursuant Assurance the provisions of the open public meetings act both adequate and electronic notice of this meeting has been provided by way of publication in the Hunter and County Democrat and Korean news newspapers on are about February 1st 2024 and January 30th 2024 in addition notice of the meeting was posted at the B of Flemington Municipal Building located at 38 Park Avenue and any handicap accessible entrances there too posted on the municipal website provided to the municipal CLK and distributed to all persons if any requesting copies of the same this meeting is being recorded with both audio and video and may be rebroadcast this meeting is a Judicial proceeding any questions or cons comments must be limited to the issues that are relevant to what the board May legally consider in reaching a decision and the chorum appropriate to hearing must be maintained at all times um before we get into things because we have quite a lot I just want to add as well um one of the um bylaws that we have um when we have the public hearings is we TR we ask people to limit themselves to three minutes three minutes right foret that um three minutes and I'm please it must be relevant to the particular witness that we bring up at that point like question for that witness for instance um and it must be relevant to that application okay just reminding everybody think we that but there you go all right so let's get into into the agenda um item one is a time for public comments we say public comments however this is public comments for things not on this agenda so if you have a comment about something on this agenda this is not the time for it but if you have something else for this board you can raise it now we have anybody online anything see anybody online and I don't see anybody in the room that's good to speak so moving on to item two make com um we have not had a council meeting since our last FL worth meeting so I'm just going to take this opportunity to wish everybody a happy and safe holiday and a very helpy that's it I'm three Council comment I will say it myself as well there is no meeting there there no updates but happy holidays to everyone okay thank you um item four HBC comments Dennis did you have a meeting had a meeting since the last meeting okay nothing for a minute that's great let's keep moving on professional reports item five anybody have reports there we don't have to add this one um I did see the comment from the the last meeting that moving forward next year we'll probably try and have a little bit more a updated on those and a little on applications just little reports me and figure out how you can easily do that um one of the things we'll just have to well we'll talk about that we got plenty of other things to talk about tonight exactly me me in it's fine um all right item six approval of minutes from December 10th 2024 regular Meeting those were distributed does anybody have we just did that I'm on B time H late for me already um approval of minutes they were distributed does anybody have any comments or um amendments we have to make to those the people that were here nobody everybody's happy with them okay well then can I get a motion to approve a minutes I'm move it second all right Mr Hill and then can we take the roll call for that Mr Hill yes mayor Carol yes councilwoman faar yes Mr Campion yes Miss gin AB Mr dashna yes Miss whitesman yes Mr Sino obain Miss swingle yes thank you very much thank you all right item seven is the resolution 20242 for 110 Main Street um do we have we have that one we do have that one exent who's eligible to vote on that uh we have mayor Caro miss giin m fararo Mr Campion Mr Sino and Miss SLE wasused I'm um we might want to change my bad sorry the resolution on that y I um I you want me to call the RO again then again pleas um for motion call for a motion to approve the resolution to Memorial the resolu thank you Mr yes may Carol yes Miss giin yes Mr Campion yes [Music] yes the date of AD all right it resolution 2024 23 that's BSD Flemington apartment field change we haven't got that we um yes T sorry 2024 22 item 8 um the amended site plan who's eligible to V for that that is Mayor Carol Mr Hill bisaro uh Campion dasna whitesman and swingle H swingle Echo and show all right we can have a motion to approve the resolution I'll move second callaro yes may Carol yes Mr Hill yes Mr Campion yes Mr Dashner yes M whitesman yes M yes Mr sh okay yeah all right now we can do item resolution 2024 23 BD lemington Apartments the approval of field change who's eligible for this one thing is a limited amount of people very that's Mr Hill Mr dashna and Miss Whit okay can I have a motion to approve the resolution that one please I'll move that yeah yes thank you Melissa either Dash or Hill second the M Whitman yes M Dasha yes Mr Hill yes thank you thank you all right item 10 completeness rqy did ioun that correctly rqy Iron Works LLC application 2024 number 24 block 28 lot 847 Maple ad certificate for pre-existing non-conforming use conditional use we have here I think was planning on coming yes okay sorry I'm um no problem so the last thing that I saw and I think I'm gonna have Bob kind of go into a little more detail um they did come before us for completeness quite some time ago um I believe that additional information was submitted on two separate occasions the most recent was October beginning of October um Bob had sent out an email indicating that there were still some items that were not fully satisfied um so where are we on that yes so the board U granted um I thought the board actually denied it certain conditions but they went back and read the minutes they actually did one of your conditional approvals conditioned upon them addressing certain items before they came in for a public hearing uh they made a submission in May I did an updated report in June back to them identifying stuff that was not provided uh they did a resubmission in October almost it appears they did an identical resubmission like a few weeks ago uh of documentation I was it was getting a little confusing figuring out what they had they were going to lie and whatnot I suggested to Steve that perhaps he would to just take my June thing and respond item by item he basically responded back to the board waved a lot of the stuff back there so I today I just did an updated picked out the items that I said for my uh June update as to what was open told you which items were addressed which one was not um items again which still going this is prior to adoption of a new checklist so yeah I kind of put the new checklist aside and stayed in the same format as what we had been working uh so you you were looking for architectural floor plans excuse me uh he gave us architectural and that was the big hang up up to this point why they were coming back the Chris other architect which I think was chrisopher corly was uh was way on vacation whatever uh so they came back with plans dated July 9th my comment back to Steve was they seem to be the same plan with a different date that we originally had and was that his representation of current conditions um I didn't hear back from ceve but they submitted it so I'm assuming that's their representation of what's out there today um I was just pointing out that itating the document we previously had so right um I again unless I missed it I don't have a certification on payment of tax for the property and then I understand it was also another issue about a fine or something that F in the same category they did a tremendous my understanding they did from the construction department is they did a tremendous amount of work uh with no permits at all and got caught by our fire inspector and our Fire Marshall and that they owe the burrow 5,000 $8,000 I believe in um permits and fines but they've never gotten the permits and they did like I said a lot of work illegally and uh I don't know I mean I don't think the planning which here applicants were not in good standing with the municipality be it taxes be it you know construction permitting there is a very low um escro balance as well I checked on that today originally it was it looked like it was um had some funds in there but was a uh return check so that that lowered the amount that's available in that balance right now so and I I sent that to Mr grber uh Friday so we did ask for punishment yes and we don't have pay taxes there's six months of data here that came in P mail so I and I was getting reluctant to keep spending a lot of time trying to figure out what we had and didn't have um but uh I just said you I I don't have it I or something nothing have a nothing in addition but to the what else to the next point we can't really we can't actually consider that because it was not part of our current it's certainly something we why can't we consider it can we not so well let's I don't want to talk about the merits of the application but I don't talk about the fact that they they they do work without permit well and that certainly would have to be resolved prior to any other permitting being issued that could certainly be a condition of any sort of determination the board may make but as far as statutory items that are required in addition to our checklist items it's only Pro payment of taxes not pro of payment of any other CLS um so I can certainly look to see if there's anything else but I'm pretty sure that that's all change here's the wording from that section of the or it says a certification for the tax collector's office that no taxes or assessments are due or delinquent on the subject profit that's a tax assessment a violation not other it's not even a water sewer or anything else which I believe we do have in our checklist can we can we change that in the checklist going forward I believe we have the certificate the original application in the certification of taxes also had a certification of utilities both were listed on that this is these are CS yeah I mean that's you know I think there like I don't want to talk too much about the history where they are I don't want to take the board I no I don't either I just want to talk about the fact that they have open permits and fines due to the burrow that they have not paid and I believe they were levied and I'm sure the board will ask those questions and deal with those questions when they're standing in front of us we certainly can but in terms of completeness we want to just consider whether we when the conditional things we gave previously whether we feel this board feels that they've been provided such that we can then put them on the agenda for a public hearing that's that's our discussion certification on payment of taxes very minimal is that everything the next item um there was an item here that they provided a survey but it wasn't signed or sealed I had originally recommended a waiver I don't think the board's ever met to consider way or unless you did that back in um when every over here in May I don't recall that being the case but uh if if you didn't you need you need to wait that's item L2 you need to you need to wait uh they did give us the RAR and Township tax map which was L4 um and L6 uh was a requirement that they have a schedule of existing zoning uh requirements and what's on the site um they did give us a schedule it shows current conditions shows what the ordinance requires doesn't tell us what the site is why non compliant or whether there's you know any pre-existing non compliant so right then I would just defer back to the board on that a lot here that item you just said about non compli say that again that you asked them to provide the last one I just said yes yeah about the non-compliance let me read you the item exactly it's written a schedule of required and proposed zoning District regulations including but not limited to lot size lot WID Street Frontage yard set back open space requirements parking requirements and lot coverages um originally back in June they didn't give us anything in the current submission they basically just gave us a zoning schedule that tells you what's required doesn't tell you whether the site is you know if there's any non-compliance with the site or not so I just said it's partially addressed I think it's important considering that um you're doing active welding in a multi- tened building I think it's important to know like what you want what you ask for well that's you don't have that based on the discussion tonight you don't have a tax certificate and you don't have a um a response back from them as to the current property and their operation what's compliant what's not compliant and I can tell you I'm looking at the website fourth quarter taxes are do have to provide evidence in fourth quarter taxes to my for so that's what we as the board need to decide is we often give the conditional waivers then they come to public with them and um we like to try and do that for people obviously to like not slow things down however we we're changing that in the future we we're minded to change that with our new with the work we've done on the um checklist and everything to make it clearer what we're expecting and what we're not expecting because we've been um this board has been put this Pol we've um we've been very nice and we and people have taking advantage that's a taking advantage of that niceness I guess and we get to public hearing and then these things don't arrive the public hearing and it just wastes everybody's time because it just delays everything then right we we just keep so that's the decision I I guess the board has to decide is do we insist on these items being done before we schedule it and and call it complete for public hearing or do we again give conditional waivers and um run the risk of them they've had six months to give us these things since they six months in well over the last six months it could have given us all these things and we don't have them and now we need an updated one as tax one anyway yeah and uh as far as taxes go I mean sometimes there's a delay I found is getting the actual certific so we'll put in proof from the website that it's paid but here I mean it's a statory requirement it's not paid so I think we definitely have to do that before we can do anything else right we could certainly um not wave these items and I can let Steve know we need to have these before we're able to move on it sounds to me like the architectural done uh survey you want I would recommend you wait it you have it you don't have to find yeah okay so I can let him know um you know what the uh what the board decided which would essentially be to wave the unsigned survey issue um being the architectural floor plan issue resolved and then require payment fact there any operational response uh prior to being deemed complete and scheduled are we deing the architecture I thought that was the last one that you just read to us about zon that's zoning that's not the architectural if they don't we have we have a plan not sign s that's the survey the architectural plan just Bob just indicated that they're the same ones as before they're just redated so you know listen it's a good they gave us a floor plan of the unit yeah so it's a completeness is they have it check they have it if there's a change to it they can address that when they come ACC right but um the items been provided so I think that that's complete taxes have not and the last right is that included with the operational response the zoning schedule is that the same D that's the same right L L6 is the zoning schedule one the one I was recommending you wave is the sealed survey which is um but even if we wave that one and we're not waving the other we don't do it completely so it's not just my view on that board um I was just saying that was what our decision um our discussion so I'm I want to hear from other members of the board how they feel about what we just discussed quickly if anybody has comments on that please thoughts anything here think that should be something have in place you know as satisfied you know completeness I don't think the public can hear you Brian sorry um I think that yeah we should have everything in place of to satisfy completeness you know it just makes sense to make to do that so yeah I'm agreement Karen we have too many uh people that apply at this board that jump through oops to everything we need we yeah it just seems it seems went through the checklist for this very reason have things in place this one kind of saddled the checklist work we did so um what about any of the members online any comments want to make or anything no Dennis is yes he does is that a yes uh I agree especially the taxes if they go taxes I I think to me we shouldn't be moving forward at all yeah and and it won't be that difficult for them to do so they can come to the you know next meeting for completeness and have it ready for the first meeting in jary or the one after the weog um shouldn't take that long um I think that's what we should um suggest them we have to vote on that then yeah let's do that all right so can you maybe make give me some wording that we should um suggest yeah Bob just so we've got the record clear the architectural FL plan item was which one uh A9 and K and you have it A9 K payment taxes is d d The Sign Sealed survey L2 L2 and then L6 is z yes all right so the motion would be to uh deem the application incomplete uh for failure to provide items D and L6 um items A9 and K will be deemed satisfied and item L2 will be wait I'll make that and I'll second that okay P the mo please yes and everyone is eligible mayor Carol yes Mr simino yes M barar yes Mr Campion yes Miss giin yes Mr Hill yes Mr dashna yes M whitesman yes swingle yes thank you thank you message from the board that we we want everything before we complete we have that's nine already only Mr cook is um all right item 11 this discussion workville Road Properties LLC application 20195 um that might give you an indication why this is a sensitive discussion issue um request for extension I have can you fill us in Cara where we're at with this yeah so I I I need E's help just as far you know the application itself was filed in 2019 but we've had some action and and or in action since then um but the most recent request is for an extension of time for the board to act until the end of March um as you know typically there's a lot of variations particularly the board has 120 days from when an application would been deemed complete to render a decision um if it doesn't then we usually ask the applicant to Grant an extension of that time period so that they don't run into statutory approvals and things of that nature um they have continued to request adjournments presumably based on the correspondence um they're waiting for a determination from the do on their pending access permit application um and they're looking to hold off on proceeding until such time as they have that in hand so um when was the last adjournment request request it with yeah with this extension well we had a discussion that would be the last one that so the the dates were we deemed it complete July 11th 2023 we had a public hearing opened on the January 23rd 24 and that was after it was scheduled and it was kept they provided notice the first time that we actually had testimony and began uh the public hearing was in January of 2024 and then we had another public hearing day of those month series of a Germans youren I have a the balance sheet um there um Karen um there's only about there's less than $700 right now um and that may cover some of the the review that some of the professionals have done for this request so we don't have enough Escrow in right now they would certainly need to have before anything was along with anything submitted at a minimum have they been anything else since the last hearing no well what do this you said discussion was in June that was on the outstanding balance of the esro account which they and received a check in August to August to check to put it in some sort of positive mind I so it's a difficult one right to be helpful yeah and I don't again you don't want to talk too much about history or or merits here but what they're they're looking to proceed on a certain Track by getting this do approval prior to being for this board they certainly have the ability to do that um they also have the ability to do the other way to get the board's approval and then go after their do permit because we can only condition our approval on them getting it we can't require that they have it before they come to this port so they're choosing to go that route presumably so that they don't have to come back to this port if there's any change that's requested by the do to the project before they come back here so they don't want to come back us um that being said um it's been a while and um we've continue to journ and and you know it it certainly is within this board's purview to be able to say that we would like to start the application or continue and this I I want to see what they've did in January and March I don't really recall how much testimony we heard it was mostly it was Mo was mostly on their flood issues they testified a lot yes about the flood issues and we the board also asked like that no but to get the DP like to not to do a double track not just but D go and get but just the do you're still not I mean I don't have a problem giving you the extension conditioned upon they replenish the S count and they understand they're going to have to fully notice all over again when they start um but I you know I just think this is at their Peril if they don't like they're worried about the dot approving a subdivision having access to entrance and a school bus stock on number 12 but they're not worried about getting DP approv when the store motor rules have you know really really really changed and they've got this scheme to put these underground pipes in to take off water I just like I just I'm concerned that you because you made a comment about them coming back and then having it listen keep the esro fund up yeah right so can I just ask a qu um they've asked for till Mar did you say yes so so they have asked for an extension of the time period for the bo to act until March as of right now when did we l adjourn the application to without find notice we have no idea all right right I would still have to do some research to do that no without further notice it was like November because then they asked for another extension and that's when we all said gonna have to do they went I think to January okay I don't think it was November of this year certainly not I think it may have been um no I'm thinking that it was ear way earli but was the last request I think was prior to the I think it was Prior it might have been at the discussion in July my question is do we have to give an extension to the date I asked for can we pick a different date can we let's separate this this is an extension of the time period for you to act not an extension they're not looking to be adjourned to the March 31st meeting I don't even think we having March 31st we don't have meeting set next year correct so what I think we do is the board can make a motion to Grant the extension through the end of March and let's pick I guess we're going to vote on meeting dates for next year tonight at we're going to discuss them at the re Council know right we granted their extension tonight through the end of March we will vote at reorg upon the meeting dates I can give them a copy of what you've got and then we could schedule them for a hearing at New York for the hearing Provisions in they they they would have to agree to for that scheduled date and provide notice for that absolutely I'm just saying an extension is typically to the end of a month in general anyway I mean I think the last extension was to the end of this year yeah I mean I have no problem giving the extension to the end of March follow up question can we also say that is the last extension and say that is the absolute yes drop dead date if you don't if we don't start it by then then they have to completely reapply if if theud that in the motion to approve the extension you can do that because I feel like we have to we have to put a pin in so we have to kind of say this is this is it's gone all too long things have it's it's good maybe I think I think that should be C there should be a caveat with that though because let's think about this again the extension of the time to act is the extension your time to act so if they come in and they're scheduled now at reor for your second meeting in January and they come in and they start doing their hearings let's say we don't finish you know at that point in time you're going to want to extend it so that they can finish their presentation so I think that maybe the motion should be you're granting the extension provided that they come in and they continue with their application prior to March 31st upon replenishing the escrow in a certain amount that you determin and providing notice to the appropriate hearing date which will decide everywhere that would stand still mean if they provided escrow and um the other thing you said no the notices and the escro then we it would again just sit and keep sitting on our box and keep sitting on our box and we could actually never start anything no we have an extension to the end of March right and then I could make a note to put this application for some kind of other another discussion at the the second meeting in March and then the board could decide um at that point and then either withdraw without prejudice or make some kind of other action but you would have to take action by that March otherwise if you didn't I'm sure they have to come in and start their application I think that's what this board wants this board wants to come in and start the application you don't want to give them an extension through the end of March have sit around for another three months and do nothing that's exactly what I don't want so whatever way you say we need to word it to achieve that that's why I don't I don't want it going on and on and on again the motion is you're granting the extension through March 31st with the caveat that they have to come back they have to come back and continue start their application prior to March 31st replenish the esro and do new notice otherwise the board reserves the right not to gr additional extenstions and can we say that they have to put the esro and the notes before they come back to completely otherwise you don't have jurisdiction right we have to so they have right what I'm is they don't come to start talking to us and they still not give us the esro until we won't let them come they they're not getting on any agenda until those two things are done and that has to be done before March end of March and they yes and they have to come here but we'll decide when that hearing is when we select the DAT all right so that being said does the rest of the board agree with that and what car is suggesting anybody anybody have a A desperate need to disagree or add something to that what Sheed I think she's come up with a good plan anybody um I'm be I guess s about this if uh if we turn them down and make come back and start all over again becomes a de variance and that accuses council members and myself and prefer to sit on this hearing so I'm elting to just say no right so that's that's not what we're doing right so that's good second on the to approve the extension yes subject to subject to the escrow and the reen notice can I get a motion for that please yes the escro the re notice starting the application the application otherwise the board Reserves reserves the right not W reserves the right to not addition that way it allows us again to move right okay second that thank you can we take a roll on that M please yes mayor Carol yes Mr s yes Miss fararo yes Mr Campion yes Miss giin yes Mr Hill yes Mr dashna I've recused myself from this application thank you it's been so long Miss yes Miss swing yes and Mr show then is that yes sorry yes can you hear me yeah thank you all right excellent all right there we go we're moving through at number 12 already awesome time all right so number 12 is public hearing for hunterman County Democratic committee application 20248 this is continued from October 22nd and November 26 do we have Council here here um they're not here well then I guess we're not opening a surprised Mr S I had um several um um yeah I saw a bunch of correspondent he submitted new information to sub to the board yeah they submitted an additional escro check I am very surprised that so I guess we could change we could this for now I guess we have to we have to table it we'll table it to the end of the meeting to allow them to arrive if they wish and then at the end to I'll send an email to him and second okay really quick is there anybody here for that application anybody online for that application no I just didn't want somebody have to sit around the whole time waiting so it doesn't look like anyone's here so no we're okay all right all right so we had a motion to do that do we have to vote on that is it all in favor of that I I I POS anybody disagree oh yes of course sorry yeah one one accusal abstention all right well that's good news for number 13 um public hearing HBC Liberty Village Urban Manu LLC uh continuance from November 26 and December 10th and I also want to confirm for the record that I submitted I watched the video and so did M was it Mr Campion had to do that too yes um actually we did that for the Democratic party but um yeah I have a i want to U Council and I will forward this to you cara for so I so much fun watching the video it's [Music] awesome oh I'm sorry I did hear from Mr samon it was the council before that apologize for the unbelievable timing of this but tonight excuse and can the board carry the hearing until their next meeting next next meeting well we do have the reorg we'll continue it to umg and then reorg we'll continue it to which is January 14th 2025 thank you very much wish family all the bestbody want to know name surprised she let him out when she was this maybe no PA all right then we are ready for number 13 cool Hello so good evening Don pepy from SCCY holl the applicate um I don't know I know one of my conss going to bring own computer I don't know whether I need to flip this or um I'm sorry promote the panelist um um I will also do you want me to I can promote uh Jason tronco and alar Patel uh Gary Dean is on here also is he part of your he is part of my group yes should have um the ability to share uh your screen look it looks good and and we probably will go with a different computer but for this segment one of the issues that came up at the last hearing had to do with really a completeness item um there the board had waved uh one of the completeness checklist items having to do with soil testing in the Basin areas under the premise that we would come back with our lsrp we ran out of time last week to do that we have our lsrp here this evening yes and please spell your last name Myers NY Thomas onl people can you hear okay do we need to make M oh give a big thumbs up a testimon back to give this for the truth the whole truth and not theuth I did uh Tom can you share your credentials with board um senior project manager um certified professional geologist and licensed cite remediation professional for for Consulting um I've been um a environmental consultant for 40 years and and a certified geologist for 35 years and your license is current and I've been lsrp since the beginning since 2009 mam chair I'd ask you to accept Mr Mr Meyer as a license site you have any concerns I don't think so uh so Mr Myers you know I think you uh we we've discussed the exchange there was a checklist item on the um on the Burrows completeness checklist that requires soil testing and and seasonal high water testing ground water testing in Basin areas we have not done that and we got a temporary waiver based on the premise that the reason we didn't do that because there's existing contamination can you please yeah um I'm the lsrp for the program so I know the soil studies that have done we have documented soil impacts above the njtp so mediation standards and we we feel that it's not prudent to do the infiltration testing when we have we have a plan of remediation that's going to um be be implemented as the development goes along we're going to probably remediate extensive percentage of soils on the on the on the property on the mall property is a former Foundry so there's soil impacts that we have to address all across the and so we we feel that the infiltration testing should be delayed not not not done but delayed until after redo the remediation and and the and the bio retention Basin are restored um any testing that's done before that would not be appropriate because you're going to have different soils you have different infiltration rates it's not going to be what's the actual conditions are with the development go put a part point on if we test the soils that are in place now those are not the soils that will be in place when the Basin is actually constructed is that that's correct or we don't anticipate they and further testing the basins now could that exacerbate the environmental conditions of the site yeah these these these Bas a lot of areas on the property have impacts from metals and pH compounds H aromatic hydrops and you don't want to do in any kind of injection to testing or injected water or or anything else on soils that might cause those contams to migrate and so we would would prefer that not take place until after the remediation is completed I have no further question you indicated you can't do infiltration testing unless I'm misreading the stormw report and and the the report that I issued the issue the I documentation is missing is establishment of seasonal High groundwater conditions are you unable to do that I I can't do that because we haven't done that study but um no are you unable to do that at this point in time somebody told you go out there tomorrow and establish seasonal High groundwater conditions um yeah I mean I guess U if if we were directed to do that then um you know that would be up to I mean if we we don't I don't do that testing by so it probably should a better question for the engineers who designs um the the the bioen bio retention basis so the this is summarize for your benefit and for the board's benefit the and I I tried to elaborate this several ways in my report um with any applicant that comes before the board under your MS before permit is issued by the state you have and you've adopted ordinances in compliance with the state requirements you the board has an obligation in reviewing any application that is subject to those regulations and this application is subject to those regulations given it size excuse me um to make a finding that based on input from our office myself that they complied with or they haven't complied with and if they have haven't complied with they you really not in a position to approve anything because the way the burrow has adopted their storm water regulations they really they've left no provision to Grant waivers from Storm M criteria so it's it's it's it's a um black and or white situation you they provide documentation they show that they're compliant they follow the testing procedures to do that uh the board makes a finding that they they've documented compliance with the regulations and the St um The Dilemma we have here is that the applicants asking us to make an approve well make not make a finding they're asking us to um Grant an approval subject to them at some point in time after the sites been reclaimed buildings demolished soil replac whatever else at that point in time to come in and do the required testing long after you you would have to vote on the application in order to allow them to do that so it's it's a it was a real disconnect um the issue though isn't infiltration we found in the report that um you're actually reducing impervious coverage you there is no obligation here to do additional recharge the various basins were designed either if they don't have an underd drained system under the regulations they have to document uh that there's no seasonal High groundwater within two feet of the bottom of the Basin or if if it's in fact a basin has underr as part of it they only have to document one foot below um and that's the finding we have to make so if there's an ability for them to again just document that then uh again unless I'm missing something here that would allow the board if if they you know for example if they go out in the Basin in the front they document that seasonal High ground water is actually a foot higher than the bottom of the Basin they're going to have to redesign the Basin to show us that they can now have a basin that's compliant so we're less looking for the soil composition where and the and the infiltration rate we're more looking for the ground water level it's yeah and I I must have said that six different ways in my report but that's that's the open issue uh that we have to determine now there are certain designs and certain circumstances where they are relying on infiltration they have to establish those rates and whatnot but that's not the circumstance you have here um they they have to you know just document seasonal High groundwater conditions which would then if they could document compliance then we can make that a finding as part of our part of our review and approval process what is involved in finding that information out well depend who's doing it normally it would be a wet season soil log where they you know allow stabilization of groundwater within the soil log they would look again this might be a little bit of a unique situation given that they're going to and I don't know how much of the soil you're removing I don't know how much of the soil is contaminated I suppose you're not going to know that until you start digging it up they're also planning on increasing the elevations of course it will portion of the site and up but I'm not those that could change you know corre the dep to water so you know my water table in yeah some of these Bas the mic um can I also just ask the engineers just to explain do do they need to dig out a pit or are doing to get this thinking of pull a sample project engineer responded my my thought on it they would probably have to dig a soil on uh and and allows for stabilization over 24 hours there might be other ways for them to document Seas on high ground water but that's the traditional way um and is it nor I feel like is the testimony that this site is unusual with the contaminated ground that you that's why you want to do it after that contaminated ground has gone that I'm I correct in that is it and you're saying are these two the seasonal High ground water test is different versus not ask Mr poochi I I I do want the record to be very clear here but you know we have previously testified Mr poochie did uh that the storm water management system was approved by the DP okay so it's not it's not a the dark here than we guessing I understand municipality has separate regulations we're not suggesting that we forego them we're suggesting we delay them Mr POI also testified previously that these systems were designed to have underd drains if necessary so we ultimately do a test it turns out that we have a higher seasonal high water table than we anticipated we have a methodology in place to address that third we're not guessing at what the high water table is we have documentation as to what it would previously studied to be and we're basing a lot of our calculations off of that all of that stuff was previously in the record and I respectfully disagree that this board cannot cannot push that off as a condition of approval as the board often does we have to satisfy your professionals that the Bas in design meets your storm water guidelines I don't believe that there's anything in your ordinances or in state law that requires that that be done today just to correct a couple things we just said here we operating under the same set of regulations there only one set of strong water regulations the D operates under we do when you have a situation where an applicant has a a a they don't go to D for approval of the storw system they went to DP or whatever other regulated permits filling in a flood plane establishing a flood plane whatever else as part of that review process D asked them to show them how the storm water is being designed that doesn't negate the Burl's obligation because the perm the way the state set this thing up is that the state established certain regulations following the EPA guidelines and in somewhat typical of Jersey they basically said okay now we have these regulations now we're going to give every municipality a permit an ms4 permit to operate a storm water system and under that permit you're you're assuming your undertaking an obligation to enforce certain elements of the regulations to evaluate uh Land Development to operate uh your street system your street street a whole host of stuff uh but one element of it is develop design design not design a review of development applications for compliance with the regulations uh and the again you have a situation here where D looked at something that doesn't uh take the obligation off the burrow to make to make the same finding right but then my question to you is does if we make this if we made this a condition a condition on the um resolution and have a almost like a a really strong hard stop on the resolution compliance that this has to be done before certain other aspects of the projects move ahead would that cover us for our requirements under our I'm going offer a legal opinion here but my understanding of the of the regulation is that you're you're oated to make a finding that it's in compliance with and there it would be nice if there was a way to to remediate the situation again I outlined on each individual Basin here uh if the Basin has an underd drained system to it which some of these do the OB the criteria that you have to show seasonal High ground water is at least your the bottom of your Basin is at least a foot above your seasonal ground water right and if you don't have that you have to document that your bomy of Bas is at least 2et above the they have that flexibility some of these Bas have drains some of them don't they could add drains to those and and reduce the the threshold from two foot down to one foot but they still have to show compliance as I said before if they if they did this test uh and determined that this seasonal High groundw condition was at the Basin elevation or higher than the Basin elevation they would have to redesign the Basin to some other format a higher elevation larger structure whatever case may be and I is your I appreciate your concern of making sure that we comply with the regulations that we have to comply with I guess the question I'm asking is is the um oh gosh I lost um the compliance as are you are you concerned that if we we can't we can't vote to say it's compliant at thiso you don't car is it something that we can make as that they have to no I'm is it sorry I'm just checking um is it something that we can say that once they get to that point in the um site progress and have that done that they have to come back that we have to then they have to pop back to us as it were to have us vote that it's compliant then if Bob's saying he feels it sounds like he feels we can't he strongly feels we can't vote be compliant now and we would have to do it after the testing in order to allow them to do it later which is what they're Wasing for can we put something in where they have to come back to us and just give us the testing and then we can vote that it's compliant at that point is is there any way we can do that I certainly think we could craft a condition to accomplish that what I don't know is what Bob saying which is is that required before you grant an approval fin SE approval which is what they're looking for you to Grant prior to doing that that's I condition that you know makes them provide proof to Bob satisfaction and then the board reviews it and concurs with it and makes the makes the finding I mean that that I could figure out a way to do that I just want to I don't know the answer to when that has to be done right other step has to be I'm I'm concerned I don't want this board to do something that is going to jeopardize the B nobody does for the record we don't want that to happen either but I strongly disagree this is just a matter of timing our design can be looked at now and our design can be approved based on the assumption that we have accurately reflected the seasonal high water P if we're wrong on that then we have to come back the information the storm water system design is ours it's done but your data on on the seasonal high order table as depicted comes from where she still sworn in where where did you get your data from the PRI lsrp on the site before svon got involved had done some studies and saon then took the information from those studies and developed a groundwater contour map how long ago was that though probably two three years um but season my water table doesn't change it I'm sure changes like when dinosaurs go yeah so and we covered everything that was just discussed in Prior hearings so the issue of go back yeah I want go back to a better explanation about how fresh this data is and is it covered the is does it cover the areas are you mostly concerned Mr clerico where these basins are that that's where the data should be drawn from regulations talk in ter of specific test in the specific locations of the specific Basin so so is that covered the specific test in the specific locations in the specific no not at all the groundwater contour map was developed based upon I couldn't even tell you how many monitoring laws that were installed on this site by the lsrp two firms ago but that information doesn't change over as I said decades hundreds is there a way to do an overlay as to the numbers that he collected over where your Basin that you're that was done by my office to establish the bottoms of the basins to make sure they were compliant you did an overlay not on mapping overlay I looked at the information where the Basin was with the seasonal high or excuse me the groundwater um contouring elevation established for that particular location of that Bas was made sure that our basins were compliant with the two foot separation I only need one foot separation in most basins in fact during the course of the hearing when this was raised I already said I'm going to add under drains two more BAS so all seven on the east side have under drains is that data that you use sorry is that data that you use was that part of the application do we have that officially I have no idea what I'm for is if there is a way for Mr clerico to verify that you took data it's not going to verify I'm sorry to interrupt you it's not going to give him what he is asking for which is specific testing I think it's about 28 tests right based upon the number of basins and the area of the basins you have to have at least one for two for Basin plus an additional one for every 10,000 square feet it's a lot of testing it has to be done it's not done so your analysis took points that were not if the basin's here you took points from here and here and interpolated what the um a very rough sense the whole east side of and Mr clero is suggesting that we had to have it's rules suggesting the rules are we we should have we should have Tak that data from points in the basins and but you not should have we will have to you will have to we agree that data you've used is interpolate points outside of those B that is correct so I didn't bring the board back that when we initially discussed this as completeness we had agreed that we would not seek a building permit for the first town home until we've satisfied this condition we had this discussion the board spoke about could we possibly be wasting our time because the Basin would change so dramatically that any that you took now would a wasted effort we are 110% confident that that had not be the case because of the redund I think I think part of the concern is that the storm order Reds and the new storm water EGS and then the amendment to the new St EGS are all relatively new and um were adopted uh by the municipality within the time frame that the DP required um and this is a town that has serious flooding um there was a lot of waterfront property during Hurricane Ida and we trying very hard to make sure that doesn't happen again we're putting a lot of money in infrastructure to try to stop um massive flooding again you know all flooding that that's a Dre but I mean and you are certainly in the flood plane you know so I think that's the concern is that is that we're we're um putting our ordinance into suspended animation until such time as it can be satisfied and I I'm not sure I have a problem with that you know if we could articulate exactly why we're doing it what you have now what you based it on now and that you're gonna before the first shovel is put into the ground to build the first house you're going to have exactly what you want I mean these are there's nothing that woulde irrespective even coming to this board there's nothing that would prevent the applicant from see taking out a demolition permit tomorrow to demolish all theill you already have a demolition permit no we don't have it until we have our vote in our Redevelopment agreement we won't start demolition until the had one but you just not doing it irrespec of the I'm not I'm not that familiar with the ins and outs of the redevelopers agre but in a normal circumstance an applicant could you know take out a demolition permit they could demolish building if they need site remediation for a contamination issue they could undertake that work they don't need planning board approval again outside the fact that this it's a um you know they could they could demolish the buildings they could remediate the site uh it's it's the issue of starting to improve the site under any kind of a plan that this board approves and That Could That Could involve site grading that could involve storm drainage that could involve utility that could involve a whole lot once you start improving the site with infrastructure then you're in the development stage again my understanding is that um the a finding this board has to make before an applicant starts that is that they've addressed any other condition you impose as part of the approval uh and that they in order for you to make that finding you're supposed to have this data now if they have a wealth of other data that would show that you know what we're probably safe here because you know consulted a b and c did you know X Y and Z tests and we plotted that stuff I don't believe that was submitted as part of the storw report but if they have a wealth of documentation that says we're pretty safe here and there's some way we can can contrive or you know develop a resolution that would rely on that with a condition it before they start putting any infrastructure in the ground that and they're saying that they have to wait till after the S me mediated before they could even do the test uh that you know if the stage of the process is board approves with that as a condition uh applicant undertakes demolition applicant undertakes remediation applicant then goes does the soil testing specific to the basins however many they are I think you said 28 test um and documents that yeah these basins are fine the way they are or in the reverse you know this Basin we got to redesign this basin got to come up a foot or two maybe that changes some elements of the other design maybe they have to come back here uh seeking an amendment plan and were speculating at that point um and then then the board you know that would probably be a safe situation do I think that's what we were suggesting that we do all along I don't know how it became that the can't vote with that as a condition because that's what I heard earlier this board can't vote and approve a project strongly you can with that condition as far as records go as to what the testing was done Mr Po's a a civil engineer he's under oath here testifying as an expert he's read all of the material and is his professional opinion that these basins are designed to be compliant with what all the information indicates will be the C and to add another level of comfort although um Mr clle keeps repeating he does keep repeating rightfully so your ordinance requires him to certify something well it's he's certifying that it's in compliance with d and DP did look at the storm water even though that wasn't applied you don't apply to D for a storm water review in very rare cases you apply for something such as in this case a flood Hazard area individual permit with storm water review and the D flood Hazard area individual perment that was granted specifically States right in it was reviewed for stor water liance is in compliance so they understood all of the same information that was provided to Mr clarel but they don't have to certify that it meets your ordinance they have to certify it meets the state regulations same it's the same thing same ordinance but he can't certify to you that I've done all the testing in the appropriate locations as the state rules require simply because of this whole contamination issue which as the lsrp who was just speaking before me said we don't want to dig up the ground and contaminate the soils and bring up soils that are full of pac's or something like that and heavy metals and have that be a contaminated in the air in the ground contact with your hands that's why we've worked with the D gotten the permit under that exact condition that we'll do this we agree to the condition that basically what Mr Pepe just said and what Mr per has said we maybe how how did how did the previous how did the previous survey that you work from um get done if they there was the same contaminants in the soil but they it was not done by excavation it was done by I believe a number of monitoring walls that were installed to establish over a period of a year or two what the localized water elevation was in those pits right now we have two I had I have one question the depth of the contaminated soil is that an issue as far as how deep it is on the site I don't remember seeing the particulars on that [Music] I mean if it's only one foot thick it's one thing but it's two or three foot have to come up to the microphone nobody will be able to hear him onine Mr Mars the question was do do we know what the depth of contamination is or is that something we'll discover when we're out there we we we don't have full um delineation vertically of the soil impacts at this point in some areas we do some are many areas we don't and that was all going to be accomplished during the Redevelopment as they start Excavating soils we are going to screen them test them and do our testing at the time and confirm that we get the the vertical delineation completed and remediated so you'll keep going to the right spot yes is there any average that you've run into with what you did test is it a foot deep or a foot and a half deep that's contaminated soil just so the board has an idea of has to be removed we have we have quite a few areas of concern on the property and they all vary in depths probably varies from two to to Seven 8 feet maybe 10 feet at the deepest in some areas but that that I don't even know that I think the sample that that was collected that showed contamination was around 7 feet but so you're going to have to remove seven feet of contaminating soil in some areas and replace well at some areas it's shallow and don't have to go that deep but it's all it's all based on sore Bings that cover a wide area so we're going to find different depths as you go along it's going to be visually screened and we're going to uh confirm it with confirmatory samples during the excavation does Bob have the boring uh files that you were talking about that would show him what the depths would be I'm so sorry say it again uh all the borings you talked about that said you could be from one to seven feet deep with a contaminated soil uh does do does the board or does our professionals have a copy of those boring depths so they can have an idea of what the depths may be in a certain area they're going to be seven foot and a one foot you know where are we we don't we haven't developed a remediation plan that will give you that at this point no I think what Jim's referring to is the data that you've all said that you're working on the previous data that you've got from somewhere else was that part of the application do we have that because that's that's a question I have because we we we had great discussion about this at completeness we were extremely concerned about this issue at completeness that this was going to become an issue but we wanted you to do the testing I'll wait for them to finish I want to ask you if I can because we had great discussion about this a complete as you referred to um we had great discuss because this board was concerned and wanted to make sure that we had all the information we needed to be able to make the decision properly this was going to be an issue been an issue since then we knew it way and it was now we've got to this point and we still don't feel a professional still feel we have the data that we need to assess it can I and let me let me just finish a second because that's the concern here we want to make sure we cover we do the right thing and I think what you're you're alluding that you've used some previous data that we don't have to be able to I know if you wanted us to say we just take his word for it that it's fine right and that the D more than respect me it's more than his words it's his testimony and he's it's his testimony provid would take his testimony but in terms of if we had the data that we were asking for we would have it so you're you know the shame of it is we would have had that data if the D didn't instruct us not to do it that's why we're here I don't know why Mr cler is making an issue out of this we have promised we will do this excuse me it's not just Mr clero making an issue this this was an issue at completeness and we said very clearly that we were very concerned that we weren't you weren't going to do this completeness ra concerned and I'm still worried that we still have concerns about it at this point we still have because we still have those concerns I don't have those concerns I'm sorry I I'm very satisfied by what Mr clerico laid out as a time frame as a condition to this that you know that the resolution would state that they're gonna do their demolition they're gonna do their whatever they're gonna do the do the visual they're gonna do the inspection they're going to do the borings they're G do the clean they're going to do the cleanup and then they're G to do the borings I mean I'm more that we're we've got all this contamination in a flood zone um that floods and be spreading you know so based on the way Mr clerico laid out a timetable in a resolution that they couldn't that they would have to have the testing done the sampling done and the remediation done prior infrastructure being built and um and anything else that we go along okay with that you're okay with that I okay with that I guess the question I was asking with Mr CL would you would you feel that we you and we should be more comfortable if we had the data that they're referring to that they've used would that give you more Comfort yeah I don't know judgment or whatever but he has he did that based on documentation it's not in right if that documentation could be provided in the record to show what he did and the fact that he's very comfortable that when they finally get to this point to do the soil testing that they're not going to find uh issues that would give you a level of comfort not sufficient for you to approve the storm water system but sufficient to say that it you know the design looks you know the way the site's laid out looks reasonable and again it wouldn't be the condition wouldn't be before they get a building permit it would be before they started implementing anything associated with the approval which is the in you know the start of site construction site of installation of infrastructure uh cuz up to that point again I am not going to speak the re the Redevelopment agreement whatever apparently there's a clause in there that says they can't get um they can't start demolition until they get approved but that fact deide in in a normal world uh an owner of a piece of property can get a demolition per made if they have contamination they can to do contamination and then if they want to start building something that requires planning wood approval they have to get planning wood approval um so if that's the threshold why would documentation have to show that there's a comfort level that this is a this is a realistically um High likelihood that we're not going to have an issue um again getting ahead of the the curve here but the board you know gets to a point where you're comfortable in approving the project uh and when that would be the condition that they this you know any site site related work doesn't go beyond remediation I want to say for the record that um it is you know it did Mr V did remind me that uh indeed it is in the Redevelopment agreement we did put it in there that we could not do D until we had it approval so I forgot that it was in there and you would agree to that and uh so so I guess I want to ask the rest of the board if it's just me that has that concern t or as the man suggested that well what Mr clerico suggested could be a resolution condition listed out and that timeline for that is makes us feel comfortable I need to speak before you make the resolutions thank you very much we'll with Mr K so the board is considering the right thing we can do demo we can do remediation but I think that the remediation is also going to involve some Earth moving and I don't I don't know where you're drawing that line Bob whether whether we can do not site work no curbs no no sewer no water no storm water but have to be able to move remediation with in this case would be removal and replacement um the fact that you're going to be bringing fill in as part of your site you're not going to be bringing fill in obviously until you actually starting doing site work that would be yeah is it just removal of the contaminated soil right if we dig out seven feet of of contaminated toing fil back back in seven feet of fil right certify they be returning the site to it's it's existing condition less the contamination they have to replace and at that point then I guess you could proceed at that point dig your soil logs whatever depth you need whatever the regulations required determine seasonal High Ground Water um and meet all your other obligations and then at that point if you if you document compliance um with the regulations then that they satisfied the condition they can proceed with 100% whatever you know it's 100% acceptable to you yes you have to talk microphone because our people can't I'm sorry yes that that would be absolutely acceptable in fact I think that's kind of what we discussed when we first address this that complete this and Bob is part of that your conversation right now we also Mr POI to supply or Mr miners to supply whatever data they have from the original our team they're obviously comfortable with what they did based on some documentation that's not in the record I think they need to make that documentation part of the record show what uh that data shows show what what assumptions they made based on that data uh and then that would be that would be part of the record again it's not an official test it doesn't allow you to approve the St M system but it gives you a comfort level that they at least under your redevelopers agreement that they can proceed with that element of the work you get site back to a restored existing a restored condition that would then allow them to go onto the site and do do the testing uh for the official establishment of seasonal High Ground which again is is and I must have said this six times in my report in different locations I believe is the only criter the only piece of data that you don't have that is is not allowing me to tell you that these basins are compliant with um I think I told you for the one basin on the other side where they had to test that that in fact is compliant it's these other basins on on the uh east side of the tracks that they don't for the reasons you heard here tonight don't have the data is providing that Mr POI Mr clero put it on the record we can supplement the record with the reports from the prior it's not even a report it's one page it's a map okay we'll get it from the southcon people I submitted it's just like the soils data that's in the report from the soil surveys another source information so to map your office prepared or map to somebody else someone else well just have that entity sign and certifi that that's the you know so with a view to um making sure that we kind of get this um issue confirmed by the board before we move ahead and have to come back and discuss it all again and we don't usually um P I'd like to just pull the board if they feel comfortable with what Mr clo is suggesting resolu before just I know we don't usually do it that way but I thought just get it agreed at this point it's okay I'm fine with that I don't mind formal poll I just want to understand I get the preliminary finding what are you saying Bob or what is everybody agreeing the applicant also grain needs to be at what point is this testing of the seasonal High ground water going to take place what has to happen prior to prior to Post building demolition and site remediation uh and prior to uh implementing or installing any of the site related improvements so site lat improvements don't include soil um Power it would be physical before they start putting sewer lines in or routing stor s anything other than soil yeah anything other than remediation they're allowed to yeah they might because they may have to put clean Fil A lot so they can do that but they can't do anything all right I'm tyes so can anybody on the indicate whether you feel that's acceptable let's let's put this to bed at this point before we move on so everybody okay with that Melissa okay Jim everyone says yes sorry oh yes Jeff been here for a while yes I have perfect so yes that's an informal but that's what we're going to put very good getting that data as well I think that's an thank you very much thank you finally thank very happy pleased to put that behind eyes I think the next witness I'd like to call we questions I'm sorry yes but this oh this well which witness because we've got two on the I would like to do both make sure every is any new testimony yes so we're doing questions on this soil issue y questions for vard questions well El anybody else on the professional serve for this witness no then board questions that we haven't covered already for this do we have any other than what we just agreed he is well just making sure we're covering nobody else is saying that they won't have any questions these but then so then public questions for these Witnesses only one question to Mr Myers how long do you think it will take to clean up the site it depends on how long the development takes give me a we're budgeting about six months about six months mediation thank you thank you all right so um from the public very clear this is questions for these two witnesses not so if public have questions it's on what this man spoke about gave testimony on so you have to come up to a mic which one should we use for the public well can we move your name and it you don't I'm elleno I Brown Street president I'm sorry Ellen Indo Brown Street um I do have a question about the remediation process and I know you just gave it the ballpark of about six months um I'm very intimately familiar with poly or polynuclear aeromatic hydrocarbons and I do know that they very quickly will get into the air they are many of them are carens so I am worried about the is this testimony question I'm asking question giv content to the question and that's fine the only reason I ask is I'm G to have you're going to give information you want the board to consider I'm going to have to swear you at so if you want to ask your questions and then you can provide that information later just understand where I'm going with um but my question is because the this is presumably a long-term project I am very concerned about those phes getting into the soil of the neighbors around getting into the air so there that that is something I'm really concerned about and how I know there's there's no possible way you're going to be able to keep that ground wet for six months straight um so I just want to know what the process to make sure it does not impact the community in a health way well I think um I think you can take those precautions um by keeping the soil as moist wet as you're doing the excavation and then when you when you're sure you're done when then they can those areas will be restored back F and and covered and and and so you know we take all precautions necessary to keep any dust don't spread it anywhere is that something that we sure are is able to be done on a 247 basis well let me ask you something M Mar would it be 247 or you going to pick an area wet it down excavate it back fill it move on to the next area we're not suggesting the whole sight's going to stay wet right so they're they looking at we're doing a look at how they do the when they do the um redevelop we're going to do remediation in stages small stages and everything's going to be covered and backfilled um 247 just they're not going we're not going to have exposed we're not going to expose soils that contain these constituents to the air to the wind right that's exactly and and you know they're not vola organic compounds they're phes and they don't migrate so the primary uh exposure risk is is going to be dust on the during the excavation well they they do absolutely migrate which is why I'm asking that question um but I'm also curious did you talk about waiting to test does that mean that you'll be sealing off those I I don't know what those ter testing tubes or the tubes of soil if you're going to be doing that is there's the presumption that that would remain unsealed for a period of time during the testing while you're waiting for results no we we I mean the plan would be to to do the excavation and do accelerate analysis on the soil samples and and if any if there's any exposed soils they'll be wetted first and then also covered okay um cover plastic tarps and whatever else we need to prevent any dust exposure okay thank you can I just um based on that can I just ask a followup question relate to that um when you're doing this um removal um I do you have plans often the uh soil from site gets tracked onto the local roads have you got plans to wash not allow track they're tracking bed we got keep respons he doesn't know about the demolition I'll ask you lat through that I can volunte our storm water not our storm water our our soil sediment en rosion control PL will require rip wrap as you're leaving it's going to require us to watch down equipment before it enters the public roadways a very tion plan that would be in thank you that's the testimony I thought that that follows up to that question that would help resolve concerns um any other members of the public have questions for this witness here for this witness come on up place to this mic okay um my M record thank you my name is Alex G owner of 25 Brown name k o u r i l o v i t c h and I'm represented by my engineer yes my name's Joseph majeski professional engineer in the state of New Jersey been licens for the past 34 years are you getting testimony or you're asking well I'm gonna ask questions okay yes minutes I'll can you sp your last name I'm sorry yes m o d z e l e WS yeah thank you thank you questions the question I relates to we talk about soil remediations I I you I just came on board and I looked through some of the information that was online that was posted on the board and uh the one area that they did do some soil testing I guess for stangle BMP stle BMP second sir can I just ask can you put the M that basically there was the soil component only two to three ft deep and then it got into a a bed fractured Shale or a Bedrock now when you're talking about soils where where is that where where do you draw the line on the remediation well it depends on you know the depth of the contamination um you know if you have soil goes toed once you get to bedrock that would that would be the end of the soil contamination so we would also as a question you usually we would um remove some of the weathered bedrocks to make sure that you get down to to the depths where you can get a make sure it's clean basically one more clarification Mr speaking yes uh so the question was raised on the stangle road Basin that's in the parking lot that's not the subject of any remediation that's the clean area that's where they did testing that's exactly where Pit and the point being that they did that testing which you know one at a time and the microphone the only way our members hear you and can vote on this application is if you use the microphone they cannot hear has he has he been sworn in well he asking question I the question was yeah where is that cut off let's say in and and in this case we're Mr Rog is really um concerned about the Brown Street Basin which is rather large and it's a bio retention Basin and his property is directly adjacent the closest adjacent property to it and um anticipating that the the soils there are similar to the soils at stangle Road um that Basin the existing grades are at let's say 183 and the bottom How would how would you um and this might be a better question for for the engineer um but if if that soil is going to be removed to to excavate that Basin and that's part of the soil that's being removed and I guess replaced with clean soil it then would be removed to create that Basin and then you have um you're into the Bedrock at the bottom of the Basin and then you need to have a a a planting bed of 18 in which the bottom of that planting that is actually considered the bottom of the Bas um I I the question would be is H how do you how do you accomplish that that is appropriate for Mr you all right so so hold on hold on we we guys we really have to establish some sort of of you know organization here the questions are for the lsrp if that question cannot be answered then you can table that question to when Mr POI comes up and then we'll VI it now we're going to be all over the place it's going to take three times as long no that makes sense do have I'll give you one more minute to ask the question of this witness do you have any other questions for this witness I do not have any other questions I guess the only question would be could the could borings be done to establish the SE ground without impacting the the site with the um not not in the areas that they were talking about or the E I'm specifically talking about the uh the ground Street [Music] things the be with that we so this is question thank you very much anyone else in the public questions for Mr anybody else Mr please come up to the m your name and address and um you have three minutes just to make sure this is just the LSR I thank you um it's Mark papers Brown Street uh 35 Brown Street so it's actually a followup question I know I came a little bit late I think it's a followup question to one I was asked before specifically about the potential for contaminants getting outside of the site um so my follow-up question was I understand that there's going to be remediation efforts to make sure that that doesn't happen I guess my question might be more for the planning board or maybe it's for another governing body let's see the question then is how do you ensure that those activities are happening okay yeah that's definitely unless I think there the question was asked before if you were going to have mechanisms in place you have any other qu answer anything else to to add to that we would have mechanisms in place to prevent any um soil impacts leaving the site dust and and all that and especially with the Demolition um precautions that they take um just two followup questions Mr my just to add a little clity is the procedures that we're going are the procedures that we're going to engage in to ensure health and safety here different than any other remediation site anywhere in the state of New Jersey no no we'll have a full fullblown health and safety plan and you know exposure prevention plan in place and we follow during the remediation we follow ocean regulations has regulations o oan and my question is actually not so much that because it's and that's my question is what's the oversight mechanism to ensure that that's happening not that I don't trust anybody but as part of our resolution every gets a resolution has to comply with every state and can you use the correct word to yeah they have to comply with all local County state and federal requirements um in addition to the testimony they've prent provided and there'll be a slew of other conditions but it ends up being becoming part of the resolution as well as an Enforcement issue on the governing on the burrow standpoint is there like a regular site inspection or something we're getting way guys way outside of this questions for the lsrp we got to stick with this we not trying to be difficult please but you know otherwise it's going be bead if it's a question for a different time just tell me when that is and I'll come back I'll figure out a way to answer you just one other quick point the Brown Street Basin that was the subject of some questioning recently we have any indication that there any contamination there I don't I'm not quite sure which area is talking about I think I think not I think most the most of the soil impacts if not all of them are on the Eastern portion of the redevelop not on that portion that he was talking about with the Bedrock sh thank you um just for the record regarding the being in lsrp okay just for the record um I was on the state senate when that bill was passed which was a fabulous bill because remediation took forever to get the D to come out and certify cleansing and this put this into professionals hands hired by a redeveloper and I just for the record it my recollection of being an lsrp although you are being paid by the redeveloper you still have your license from the state of New Jersey and have complete oversight by the DP we have um basically DPS made the lsrps their case manager so we're required to follow all their regulations to the letter and we we can't deviate from them and if we do we have to have just justification and we have to if we have a variance to the regulation we have to apply for variances and report that to the DP so we are D's case managers and that's what we try to do and that's what I try to do as an lsrp because we all our reports remedi reports permanent applications get reviewed by D and they will call me on it if I make if I do something that's not in ordance with the regulations so we have to comply 100% with the regulations we don't we have have justification why we don't and or variance we do that thank you no further question okay thank you anybody else from the public have questions for this witness [Music] no okay then shall we switch to online I've been checking have not seen any has questions for him okay then let's move on to Mr yeah so um any of the professionals have questions for Mr pooi at this point other than what Bob's already spoken about um oh what was okay just so I'm poies yeah yeah okay um any members of the board have questions for Mr pooie please no you all right so then yeah any members of the public have questions not comments questions three minutes for Mr pooi please state your name and address and for the record Joseph meski into the mic pleas J off the table it's easier to right to my father there I've been retained by the property owner at 25 Brown Street okay to weigh in on particularly like I said before the the street the question is um if I guess it was made I don't know if you said it or was made say was made by the attorney but these all these basins have had guess backup designs that in fact in in the event that the soil testing sir I'm we can't hear this witness sir we can't hear these questions so have questions please go in the hallway it's very tight in here you're really trying to hear the the in the event that the soil testing uh in I'm I'm limiting this to the ground Street BMP fire retention Basin which at least I I guess you gone back and and said made a statement that all the basins have been I guess redesigned not to be infiltration basins but um I I guess my question is that in the event that the soil's uh profile or the soils investigation in that Brown Street Basin uh comes back to be unsuitable for that Basin how would that Basin be redesigned in order to answer the question I'd have to understand what you mean by unsuitable well let's say the uh groundwater table is too high or the depth to bedrock is too high or um you know in in light that that Basin is going to be an excavated Basin for the most part with and then the additional foot and a half underneath of it um it's going to be well below the the current elevation at that Basin actually it's not the the Basin floor is at the same elevation as the the ground is in the middle of the basin that's the Basin Basin floor and yes there will be 18 inches of soil beneath that but we have the ability to I think go about four feet deep before we start getting to the outlow pipe from that Basin and we don't anticipate shallow groundwater or shallow Bedrock within 18 inches of the surface nor with even within even four feet and as the lsrp testified if there is in fact a shallow Bedrock which would not be uh foreseen at four feet the upper foot or would be rippable and would come out anyway there's plenty of room to build this Basin as the board may recall the basin's being built for the burrow and the Eastern 7500 feet of that common lots that are being uh where the Basin and the park is there's a park being built and that's up higher at the Brown Street elevation with a retaining wall at the back of it but the ground does fall off from Brown Street a little bit and at the back of the Basin the loal Basin as designed is about on grade with what's there today J you also make testimony um that if there if there was an issue you couldn't get the two feet you had to do one feet with Pip well one would be acceptable I've already testified at the Brown Street Basin and I did this the last not two ago um that we're going to add underd drains to this Basin without any change to the elevations of the Bas there's enough room in the design between the Basin floor and the invert of the outlet pipe which is a technical term for Mr CL there's just enough room to throw 100 j in there without no no change whatsoever there's another one we're going to add under James that might modify the elevation within inches that's all does that answer your question sir well I guess the next question would be would would you be able to uh guarantee that there would be no adverse uh impact from that Bas to that joining ajon property owner and and that his basement is at about the elevation um of that basement nobody guarantees anything in this world what I can tell you is that we are designing this Basin 100% in compliance with all appal regulations for storm water including cutdowns including well in this case recharge is not an issue but including water quality and in fact this Basin is not at all serving anything to do with this development it is only put in to help the existing flooding problem that I'm sure your client experiences if he's the house immediately North of where this base is going that's the low spot in the road that's the worst spot on Brown Street that floods today in a normal minor rain event and this Basin is being installed to help alleviate that problem it's just one last question and it may not relate to exactly what you testified you tell but I how would that b where's the a maintenance access to that Basin Basin can be maintained if this one gets dedicated to the borrow then the borrow will have access from BR Street if it's maintained by the applicant the access how would How would how would a vehicle or Machinery get in there to they had to replace soil or replace the underd drain there's a there's a retaining wall the retaining wall does not extend for the full width of the lot upon which the Basin will be placed so Vehicles can Traverse either side they would have to work probably on the south side where there's a sidewalk being proposed and they would out of the sidewalk and there adjacent land alongside the sidewalk didn't we also have previous testimony that um if the B needed access they would be able to use the private roads within the development so they would be able to access course have full access to all the roads within development so they would have full access to that Basin all right thank you one thank you very much come up three minutes one more question come up to the microphone please three minutes give you name and address yes it's Alex for 25 Brown Street I have a question okay if you there is no certainty if you don't guarantee 100% or you're not 100% certain that this uh system will work am I going to be a gine pick are you would you willing to put your heart assets against my or put your heart assets as a collateral just to guarantee that it's not going to fail I don't think that's an question for thisness it's not impact by two sides of my Housey testimon that your project the project will improve the the blooding all right thank you um anybody else have um questions for this witness pleas seeing none we can move on to the next part of you have you have additional Witnesses here can I make a suggestion um given the make a suggestion given the time and what we usually do we usually take a break at 9: it's 8:49 can I suggest that before we move on to the next witness we take a break now um and then we can and then start with your new witness that be we have aop 10:30 but we're going to and five five minutes five minute bre to 10 minutes bre you guys have my cell pleas to restart yes mayor M Mr Campion here miss giin Mr Hill yes Mr dasna here Mr miss whitesman here Mr Sino here miss swingle here Mr sh I see here M kazinski Mr CL here Mr Harris here Mr cman here thank you thank you uh back on the record I'm going to call next on behalf of the advocate Jason tronco he's the landscap architect for the project oh it's online hello does he need to be promoted up no he's a panelist yep he's on screen you're um you're muted Mr tronco thank you hello we need to SAR you in we can was he here oh okay sorry thank you very much I didn't realiz I all right um Mr tronco can you please share your credential with boy sure I'm a licensed landscape architect as of 2002 um I've been working as a landscape architect since 1998 for Malo Bower Carman I've prepared the plans before you in regard to landscape architecture I um testified before many zoning and planning boards in the state of New Jersey um and that's expert in landscape architecture okay M you set credentials professional State anybody have any no well thank you thank you um do you have any slides prepared or do you need mrci to raise them um I have a couple slides I'm not sure they're needed um unless there's something specifically we would like to go through okay gotcha now are you familiar with the reports that we've received from the Burrows planner and the Burrows civil engineer yes definitely and did you review them I have and on behalf of the applicant are you prepared to comply with the suggestions and require you know those plan we will we will comply with um all the conditions within the letters except for previously stated there was a question that was raised that was just looking for commentary with respect to privacy fencing between the town home units that was item 4.7 in the planning report sure in regard to color just really quick the purpose of the record we're talking about pb4 and that was uh which item uh 4.7 thank you uh are there privacy fenses currently planned between the units no no are not in item 6.2 of the planning report um there were a number of suggestions that were reiterated from the environmental commission uh again one of which requested that we install water uh for the park is it your understanding that there's no water available at there's no water available and a water fountain will not be provided thank you item 6.3 was a note that we are not technically meeting the 40 foot uh Street tree spacing can you explain why that's the case sure uh we have maximized Street trees along the road frontages on this community um there's few areas where we don't um have them closer than 40t and that's due to either parking uh spaces light locations utilities and or driveways so um we don't have a problem maximizing the number of uh shade trees and we could work with the planner to um kind of look back at the plan and see exactly where we can add shade trees so trees could be added they will be we will and then just the last comment there 9.1 was with respect to the monument sign and how it will be illuminated can you just explain how that's going to occur I'm pretty sure that's going to be um uplet uplet with a ground mounted uh flood light no it won't be internally illuminated at all externally uh externally illuminated I I have no additional questions uh Mr I think there's one more unless I missed it 4.5 clarification on the color of the defense okay um correct 4.5 I think there was an indication that it might be black or white do you what will the color of the P yeah I think that that was a mistake on our plans it was called out as black I think it was also called out as aluminum that'll be a white PVC six foot PVC fence thank you thank you that's all that's all this Tes conclud yes I have no um professionals we have any questions this yeah I just have uh one followup question about the monument sign lighting um will there be any glare or anything from that uh up light no that'll be focused to the sign and um we minimize glare thank you any other Professionals for this Witness questions no anybody on the board have a question for this witness I do um the lighting that we're talking about in The Monument that's within the Park area where is that exactly Mike poochie can you uh this is the monument sign at the entrance to the community right oh this is the the sign for the community not we're not we change subjects oh sorry that's fine then I was confused that there was going to be another sign in the park we were talking park park park no questions goodness thank you one question this is Council livar along Brown Street there's going to be staggered rows of evergreen trees that was my understanding from last week we're doing two are we do we know um what height and what types of trees those will be I'm thinking about the the Privacy looking down to the yards in Brown Street I I'm my understand it's too staggered but is and I just heard you say you were going to do additional shade Tre I'm thinking about immediate impact for privacy for people on Brown Street so uh Council woman there were review comments in the letters about how these things need to be addressed and there were recommendations for different species we're going to comply with the requirements we're going to provide the double row and we're going to work with the Township's Professionals in some instances it may make more sense to have a lower trouy that will do more to block it but we will make professionals satisfied with the ultimate landscape okay thank you I have just a question about the water apologies if I missed something un important or important you said there was going to be no water available at Grand Street for watering plants the environmental commission requested just for water Bott yeah oh okay there's no water source for them to tap into right so it was it was a can we do it yes and they say no we can't okay okay all right sorry I thought it was like maintain the plants like how are the plants and the same way I'm sure the same way that [Music] the be our okay for the record we did agree to comply with all of the other requests for the environment yeah no I appreciate I just like confused by that um so nobody else on the board has any questions for this witness particularly Mike um DP feel good all right then let we'll move on to questions for this we is from the public do any remember the public we see anybody online raised online no no so let's um same as before do three minutes state your name and address uh and it's questions the witness please don't call hi Ellen and 41 Brown um I just have a question you have mentioned the or someone had mentioned the evergreen trees along the back of the property on Brown and I'm thinking about the immediate impact and when those ever trees are put in are they going to be put in as um as at a certain height or a certain sure I'm sorry I don't know GRS but um are they are they going to come in at at four feet tall or are they going to come in at six feet tall um I guess I just curious about that and also about the maintenance to ensure that they do survive especially in the those first couple of years sure they'll be installed at 8 to 10 foot height uh and that's how evergreen trees are measured so they'll go in at that size and and upsize from there does that include the giant Ares uh let me just check the arbor B while checking I can answer the second part of your question the Landscaping will be bonded so if it dies it will be the redeveloper obligation for a period of time to replace it and they're all installed at 8 to 10 foot height okay great thank you public landscape architect no not the landscape just for the landscape architect at this time please else that's all questions done for that witness thank you you have another witness I do I would like to call uh the architect for the town homes I'm I'm not I'm going to butcher your name so I'm not going to try and everybody was swor in we said gentl you were here okay thank you okay Robert z r e g a z z o n i and Robert share your credentials if you would with board I'm a registered architect in the state of New Jersey uh and also in 10 more States along the east coast uh we I'm principal and partner of with weight architecture with the doing work for dear Horton who is the the Builder in this case for more than seven years and testify in in different boards in New Jersey for the past four or five years profession anybody so why share the with the board the elevations that are proposed for the town H home and this is a sample elevation correct yes are we sharing yeah we're promoted I believe yeah you should be able to share all right so let's start with you have to get sh I appreciate okay there okay so what uh what we're proposing here is what de hon calls their laay uh model or unit and is our three story town houses um three bedroom two and a half bathroom to all of them uh what they defer as the the footprints or floor plans that we're showing here they basically is the same floor plan for all the units that we're going to that we're proposing here with the with the difference on the facets of the massing of the of the building itself to create that Dynamics on on each group of of town houses what we're showing on the on on the on the top image is basically uh a three unit building strip that we want to want to call it showing the materials that we're we're proposing here uh we are showing that the buildings are stepping back and forth about 2 feet to create some Dynamic stair Shadow lines to it and also you can see that all elevations differ one from the other uh and this are grouped in group uh in three unit four unit five six and eight unit uh strip uh buildings you want to call that um in conformance with with the requirements we are using uh combination of colors and and different type of materials here like using stone veneer ba base or or water tables vertical board and batting U like you see on the on the on the first unit or horizontals combine color combin um trims around all to dress up better the windows and we're trimming all of them with a with a 4in trim all around them colors are looking making the builders look a little more contemporary with this trending college that we we're proposing here um and certain elements also to to break uh the monotony of the of the roofs so we are in incorporating some Dormers in turn G as well if I can stop you just for a second you can pull up the next plan while I'm while I'm talking in the planning report I believe it was um four pv4 at 8.5 the planner pointed out the requirement in the Redevelopment plan that there'll be a variation uh and that no more than 25% of any building um you know be similar and that that goes to buildings across the street from each other your intention comply completely yes is definitely that's that's the intention so we we we're in full compliance with that alternating color materials and types of elevations and are you familiar with the rest the comments in in that report yes I am and DR Horton and the applicant are going to comply 100% with the rest of the requirements as as related to architectural design we do yes share again she's going to touch [Music] B all right and uh this helps uh understand a little bit of the the rear rear side of the building and the side of of the group of units there we're showing um these uh decks on there now we're going to mention that the decks are optional and those if if the person who occupies this space is going to decide to go with it there are going to be 8 by 10 decks elevated decks as shown there so just just point of clarification some some situations where we're coming up against the setback requirement the de might vary in size and shape correct yes in order to to to keep it away from the I covered that last week when I was discussing the entire stepback issue all the decks will be 10 by 10 except for all the option decks would be 10 by1 except for a couple of locations especially along the Brown Street rear yards where the 25 foot setback requirement in the Redevelopment plan to a second floor amenity space would make them only 8 ft and they are so not in the plan there are a handful of locations that was Mr poochie interjecting [Music] thank slides you the next one would be one thing I just thought of were these subed in color to the board yes they were we might as well go to that [Music] yeah this says exhibit A2 is exhibit numbers looking yeah I I think they were independently numbered these are actually they're submitted with our plan set our application so it wouldn't be separately numbered so this is number right yeah where we look here now uh what we're looking here is uh the the monument sign is going to go for the that we mentioned a little bit before on the with the landscape architect this is the the community uh Monument sign and which is in compliance with all the requirements there and as as as you can see we're using the same finishes that are going to be part of the accents on some on on the town houses uh and this is not a back lid type of sign it's it's going to have as it said previously is going to have it's going to be lit directly from below up to to it and it's not going to create any type of glare or anything for any pedestrians or anybody around there it's just pointing directly to the sign which ises that have a sheet number on except not not as clear as the materials it's on the site plans in black and white okay so let's since this is in col let's just mark this as a A7 is a colorized rendering of the proposed monuments M thank you I think that's all I have I have no further okay um professionals questions for this witness please um so just to confirm you said that you would comply with all of the comments in our report like even the ones related to the veterans home I have a apologies I have a separate architect persective thank you uh but just to be clear for the record there were a number of comments related to Cod requirements and we will we will meet all the code okay question profal board yeah just if you could go back the I was looking at the floor plans and I I just the question I had was if I'm reading it correctly the ground level is the garage the second floor up is the kind of main living space kitchen kchen dining room living space and then the bedrooms are on the third floor I'm seeing that correctly right okay right so so so right right so that that's and I deviation on the end and some of those other minor things I understand that um the the second image that you showed had had double door is it like a a French door or a patio door or something on the rear of the property um what space in the building is that going into if it's just a garage we're putting glass stores on the garage you see if you see behind the garage there's what we call the rec room this area here and that's the slider okay so there is habitable living space on the ground floor yes okay I I that's that was the confusion um thank you have a question regarding the um exterior finishes of the buildings the rendering that you're showing us it looks like there's three different colors of vinyl paneling correct um the renderings that the World Council saw showed some brick and some Stone finishes as well have they been removed no this the stone is is you can you can see the stone here in the bottom St be and a water P maybe you can I can't okay I'm sorry but uh basically stone and brick are still in the mix for f is that going to be done by the developer just randomly mixing them up or are people going to be choosing their exteriors and having to pay more for stone or brick no it's the developer is going to pick to them okay thank you I'm sorry I guess following up my other question sorry um is in terms of of accessibility and visitability there what I'm understanding then is that there is no ground level bedroom there's no ground level washroom there's no any anybody visiting or living in these units would need to to go up a flight of stairs to get to any living space correct and and this may be not for you this may be for the engineer but he's standing there but I'll ask it to you um is there's no issue with flood Hazard of of this wreck room being on the ground floor I know garage there's no issue but but if if there's actually like living space or or does the storm water plan make sure that everything is not built where it needs to be Mr bie will answer but everything will be elevated out of the flood f every is above the not just the applicable flood aard regulations for this project because this is grandfathered under the previous 2021 RS but we've designed everything to be in compliance with the current ranks which is three feet above the flood as relation and therefore no flooding whatsoever on any residential floor at all thanks any other members of the board with questions oh Dennis yeah now we share sleep see Dennis with a hand up when I stop sharing yeah I I just had a question question on the first floor um plans well you you took it off but it looked like um the picture shows windows on the first floor the diagram looks like in the front there's no windows but it's going to look like the picture with the windows correct let let me share this again let me share this again see where the powder room is it looks like there's no windows on the diagram but it's going to look like the picture with the windows on that first floor yes yes it's it's it's probably because of the print there but there's yes there's there's a window here and also in the living room that's cor that's correct if you see the elevation here the the nrow window would be the where the bathroom is is the double the big window would be the living area got it thank you else on the board I can't see their can I see raised um I had a question about the decks um I know we have testimony that they're not going to as built they're going to be optional and the spec you're going to offer is 10 by 10 or 8 by 10 um maybe a question somebody else but clarification on once that's built or if somebody wants to go in later and decide they want to add a deck are they going to be restricted to that size how is that words being corporate into their um legal requirements to restrip that if you wanted us to include a limitation in our governing documents for the community we could certainly consider doing that however if they wanted to come in they'd have to come before this board and they'd have to meet the setback requirements and as Mr pooie discussed you know we're right up against the setback requirement at least along the ground Street Properties just like anybody else who wanted to build a deck they'd have to come here well no the de would come to that's that's a zoning issue so we need to be clear it's in the zoning so is that when they want a deck that's when we did our de we had to go for periton yeah but it requ le requ le it would have I you're already within so that would be we'd have to be specific in this location that the decks could only be maximum of eight or 10 feet up from the building right but that's what the is that if someone if someone wants to build a deck on their house anywhere in the bur they go to the construction official construction official looks at what the setback is on that particular parcel for for anyone here who would want to build one they going to look at the the Redevelopment plan in the agreement here they're going to see the the setbacks that are in the plan and if they want to exceed it they're going to have to come here and we can say no or yes um but otherwise they would just have to pull the construction permits and you know pour the Footers and y y it would it's not any different than you was building a deck because it' be subject to the rules that are already in the um the Redevelopment plan the code offici would be looking at it against the Redevelopment plan now they've offered to put something in addition into their governing documents which most you know most places governed bya would you know have it where like if you want to build a deck you got to get our permission before you even go talk to the town and it's got to be gu colors and yet yet like they we can ask them to put that into their govern I think that's a good idea as well as putting it in there that it cannot exceed the offering statements SI Jack I I would be happy to work with M kazinski I don't have that information as to what the flexibility we would ask for but we can definitely work together I think yeah I think I think the concern is that in the future somebody could come in and get a waiver and build something bigger that would really like over Overlook people's backyards on ground street so this would just protect them you can't build anything larger than what was offered originally to new buyers that's that's what's the stipulation yeah yeah it could build nothing different than what so that would be the color it would be the size would be right can I agree with the um the depth because of the setb but they're offering one that covers half the property which could could could in the future they do one that's double she saying offer away we if we we put a condition that they have to put it to the H governing documents then I mean it's done to the extent that technically HOA could vote to change its bylaws but like that's a pain in the neck and do that I it's want do that anyway they want everything the same right and I think if you went wider you're going to be impinging on your neighbor's space anyway so your issue might be depth and I do think that where that be would be problematic you're going to run into a set package right right right Cas if they want to come here they're have to notice so the suggestion of it being as as originally off simp simplifies the whole thing we have to think about it going around the corner or and down um thank you um anybody have any other questions for this witness from the board all right then I'll move on to the public so anybody from the public have questions for this witness the architect this you said you have another architect so and I'll this testimony that he said with respect to the town homes the AR would the veterans thank you yes sorry I have lots of questions 41 Brown um I do have a question about the elevation of those second Flor Debs what is the elevation height let me see here about okay and then I guess my next follow question to that um especially pertaining to where you're right up kind of that that 25 foot buffer if you will would if if a five foot IND foot individual were standing on that deck would they be able to then see over the priv foliage I think you guys were talking about 10 to 12T um of foliage would that to be yeah I think I think we already heard the architect say they're going to be 8 to 10 feet when they're planted so absolutely if somebody was standing on the deck they would be able to see so they would be able to see into my backyard with right so I think my concern is that I'm seeing our providing and those are I think popped out at at 10 ft privacy behind my property so that's what the plan says that's the installation that's no they that's what we put them in at and then they R I think it says putting them in at seven to8 question earli said they were all being put in 8 to 10 ft initially and then they grow from there right well our doesn't get that tall it was the specific they don't get that tall I have 20 Footers in my house they do because I'm just asking because that's not what the plan is stating the plan isting Bob's looking it sty today wait wait wait the testimony today can we um correct the testimony we got from the landscape architect was they're going to be installed at 8 to 10 Street the Evergreen that is correct right that's installed height can we get it Mr tonco are you still available can you opine as to how tall the Evergreens that are going to be providing the barrier between Brown Street in the project how tall they could grow to 30 uh 30 plus feet okay is that that specific to the arbor the giant Arbor Arbor will get you know every bit of 20 feet okay thank you um and can I just ask can we ask um how long will it take to get to that point is there an average growth rate I think it's like a foot a year okay so like five years before I have any privacy that's that's what I'm just hearing make sure I'm understanding right okay any other any other questions any questions from the public any more questions for this witness from the public no seeing none we can move on to your next witness sir thank you before we move on can we can we call back Mr trun just for clarification Mr TR which tree did you just state grows to 30 feet like um some of the bigger ones the holes we have American holly out there are they a slower growing tree than Arbor they are slower growing we have lelin Cyprus as a buffer we have white pine and then we have Eastern red cedar Ro the fastest and the tallest uh Leland Cyprus grow pretty quick they grow more than a foot a year I just know I know them as fast growing um into American Holly and how tall do they get L Lins will get you know 25 feet tall 25 tall and are they um do they grow as wide across as the arbes do they grow much yeah much wider than the subtitute to provide privacy for the residents on ground Street rather than the arbor can they be are they may I will volunteer that we will work with the Township's professionals to maximize the tree miix as we've already agreed to do in the review letters to provide the maximum degree and after you talk to the T will you come back to the buau and talk to ours I'm sorry the bur okay I know that's what a mistake it's so you'll work with you'll work you'll work with our professionals to make sure that our residents have a screening that is as big as possible as fast as possible and will be putting as a size of SC uh what just happen absolutely mayor with respect to relocating the appropriate species of tree to provide the maximum I I appreciate that I think if we have some options and you're good with the options and we're you know and it'll give our residents a little bit more privacy a little faster I think that's it's already on your plan if you switching out that would be great thank you so I need to put that as a resolution next I have isarel yeah and I hope I didn't butcher your name no that that was a correct correct pronunciation thank you camera on please sure sorry light on as well Mr Mattel would you share with u um I'm sorry would you please spell your name sure uh avar Patel a a v a r t p a t l Mr Patel was not here at the Mr Patel you swear the testimony you're about to get this board is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth uh yes I do thank you Mr Matel can you quickly share your credentials with the board uh sure I have a bachelor's in architecture and masters from University of Buffalo um and uh I've been practicing uh architecture since 2017 uh I'm licensed in New Jersey licensed in current standing and I'm licensed in numerous other states along East in sour mam CH ask that you accept these credentials as a license AR there any concerns no good you okay thank you can you share with us on your uh on your screen the elevation sure the Veterans building yep while you're doing that have have you received and reviewed the review letters provided by the uh Burrows planner and civil engineer yes I have and are you prepared on behalf of the applicant to comply with all the requirements in there uh yes we are can everyone see my screen or at least yes all right um can't can't read it but we can see there okay no problem I I'll zoom in every level uh you know when as I explain the plans Yep this was part of the set and we just note which page of your plans this is uh correct the the set consists two pages a2.1 01 and a 4.0 okay so the first one we're looking at is 4.01 uh no it's a2.1 thank you that's the floor plant the proposed floor plant uh this is a typical building um the building is is a three-story toall uh each level has two units and a total of six uh units in the building uh each floor is about uh uh 2265 or 2270 uh square feet um I'm going to go through the floor plant individually now it is yes okay um this is the first floor plan um the entry Lobby and then the staircas is located the center of the building and each unit on the on um each side um the units are are uh two-bedroom uh uh or single bath unit um a pretty standard layout as you walk in there's a living area here uh a dining in the middle and the kitchen towards the back of the building um two two bedrooms are located towards the side uh and they will share a bath uh all the utilities are are internal uh by the kitchen you can see the the washer dryer stack able washer dryer and uh hot water heater is located here uh and uh the HVAC unit is uh is a uh towards the middle of the unit um that's a that's the furnace here um similar or or mired layout on the other side um as we move up to the uh second floor plan uh the units and the layouts are stacking all three levels um except the the the the uh element in the middle of the building where the staircase is you know just to create a Breaking the uh the elevation we I'll I'll explain that uh um when I go over the elevation uh and here is the third floor or plan um again a similar uh layout each unit is about uh uh 1,50 square feet um there's a slight change here with the uh with the the the utility closet being a little larger um so with respect to the planning court if we can turn to the elevations there was some comary about providing a higher level of fit and finish we actually Incorporated that into a subsequent design correct that that is correct um as you can see the this is the front elevation um uh uh in terms of material it's a similar to uh the other buildings we have a a stone Vineyard Stone base at the bottom uh you know towards the on the either side of the entry you know it's it's a full story and then uh towards the the wings it becomes more like a water table uh then we have the horizontal uh 4 in horizontal Hardy siding uh the element in the middle is a more like a Hardy uh panel with a with a composite trim uh and then the third level is a is a Hardy Shake siding um shingles roof um overall the building height at the at the Middle where the roof is a little taller is about uh uh 36 feet I believe oh yeah 36 feet um I'm going to quickly go to the uh the rear elevation just another quick question there's not going to be any rooftop equipment here correct no there is no rooftop grouping questions if the board does that was my question Mr is there an elevator are these elevator build no there is no elevator and and I assume that that is not required for this type of structure that is correct how are they Ada comp if they don't have ele uh so typically the the level ground level uh the units would be Ed compliant I mean they're they're uh adaptable which can easily converted to Ada compant so so there how many total ADA Compliant vet are this uh total of four uh two per uh per building um so there's there's eight nine compliant but veterans only low mod income correct correct and are they they come furnished they show he show Furniture that's the purpose of the layout and how to question that's the testimony yes questions for this witness please yeah I do have a few um a few questions um just as a Point clarification um so you said you would comply with our comments in the report um and then you showed the updated elevations will you still comply with our comments like related to the um consistency of the multif family building with the town homes and then the building entrances for the veterans homes yes if you have commentary about additional changes you'd like to see but I think that those comments were related to an earlier plan that was a very clean facade and we added similar elements to the town home design if they're not acceptable we will work with you to come up with an acceptable design thank you just one question um these two individual units are on separate Lots uh and they're somewhat connected by it looks like a common pattern can you speak to why they're on separate Lots fin yeah they can only finance up to up to six unit buildings under this program the National Housing Trust Fund so they have to be six unit buildings so I'll repeat that since Mr vone wasn't sworn for financing purposes they have to be on S lots and the Lots um the one lot to the right get the lot number uh has four parking spaces on the lot itself the other Lots has a little bit of unusual shape it has like 14 spaces is there something in the financing the way this was set up that certain parking spaces had to be on the lot or minimum number or maximum number I only ask it's kind of an unusual well is and this is going to be part of the overall community so I think the parking you know overall will be on a on a shared not questioning that just questioning why the lot lines would drawn the way they work they were just drawn for convenience around the building except the one of them the one lot the left has an handled extension that goes out that covers 14 parking bace and the these particular veterans homes will share the parking that's on both sides of them and there are handicapped parking spaces too on each side so each of the buildings has two immediately adjacent to it but the predominant location of the parking is to the west of the Western Building just south of the SLE Road bio retention and for the record this is Mr stepped up following up um from mr's question question was the parking for either on either side of these buildings there will only be two designated um um disabled spot Ada spots Ada spot two per lot but the plans show four Ada level residents on the ground floor and four ada8 component spots two per building you said two per building but four people potentially per building on the on the Ada level is that correct each so there could be there could be two res am I they have two different you you could there's going to be two units for on the ground floor for each building so a total of four units oh I see and a total of four handicapped parking spaces so there could be two people in one unit there could be two people in one unit that might both require handicap parking in that case I believe that the law allows in the petition for additional handy G marking space be designated but we are compliant with yeah I mean the requirement would really be for a total of what is it um 24 spaces um it would be one and we provide it four right and this isn't restricted like a V in an ADA low mod income veteran would be the Principal resident tenant but that doesn't mean the psy of bedroom can't be occupied by his son right or her daughter yes that is the case okay there's no restrictions on this other than your veterans vetan families okay paration um okay is that all the professionals questions on this test yeah thank you um anybody from the board questions I I have a question for um Mr Harris did you see this did Mr you see this ahead of time um this exact elevation yeah no that's why I asked that faif question so we do need I think Cara that we need to reserve some uh professional input that this is what Beth was because I know Beth was very concerned that the veterans homes look like they're part of the same Community they look like they fit in and I know Mr B is willing to do that because he's had many conversations about that but I think it needs to be memorialized okay that's fine I thought we asked if this was part of the set well it was I don't I don't know why it was missed this is what was submitted but for some reason the comment still came out based on an older ex got it got okay again this is a question for Mr Harris but again we we've heard it's not exactly testimony but there's some suggestion of the reason why these were designed to do funding um and I again this may be a follow-up question because I don't know who to ask this to I'm asking maybe if you know this or we can track this down um I was surprised to not see an elevator in the design of a floor plan um and I want to make sure that we are satisfying all of our requirements under fourth round rules under COA that were for these units for this particular program the buildings rental the rental buildings I was I was always in the impression the rental buildings had to be fully fully Ada with with elevators in there if if needed to be so I I'd like for us to get an answer to that and it's not the Architects does not have the answer doesn't have the ability to answer this but I know that this is something your office might be able to cify for us I through the Redevelopment plan and I didn't see a specific uh requirement for Ada or elevator um in that phase one Redevelopment plan it was just it was designated as veteran Low by yeah um but there is sort of P all language that they uh will apply with or will comply with all applicable affordable housing requirements um so there is that as sort of a fall back that that is a requirement I don't know that top of my head if if that specific population is only required to be Ada access right and that's I mean that's so the second question from what the mayor's first question about the design and then my second my question would be we also find out from uh do a little bit of research on what making sure that if it is required that we know that right yeah we welcome that both as a condition of an approval should we get one and I do agree it is in the redeveloper agreement that we have to find the whole C requirements the partner that we have doing this operates nothing but affordable housing uh units and and predominantly veterans I'm pretty confident he knows that what the design requires can we ask Mr Patel to give testimony on that is that what you're saying if he designed it he can give testimony that it I don't know Mr Patel can you provide that testimony I don't know if you were compare it to but that this meeting the design of this meets all color requirements for veterans housing uh so I can't testify uh specifics to veteran housing because uh again I was not involved in the uh but in general uh I can answer the question about the uh the elevator requirement based on the the building code uh uh you know typically building up to four stories doesn't require an elevator anything beyond four Stories the elevator becomes a code requirement and that has to be uh included uh this building is a a three story tall and uh uh typically up to four Stories the elevators are not required thank you I would be a little bit concerned about the fact that these are all veterans and how many of them would have two solid legs to walk with all the time or is there anybody any of somebody's you know you've got some areas on the first floor that are available for people that have some disabilities but is there any to help uh a veteran that might be on one of the upper floors J I think that's the question we're asking is whether whether we comply with the COA requirements on that in that regard and we're asking that's good I look into that further as well and coordinate with the Burrows planner to come up with the answer but again I am stipulating on the record that we will comply with all C requirements related to Veterans housings and I think that it would be a mistake to characterize Veterans as having anyone particular type of injury I think that runs such a huge Gambit that you know motor skills might not be the bigger issue with Med I don't think we're complying any one thing or other we're just asking if comp requirements and so my question then would be foll from that given that we are being asked to agree to this before we even know the answer to that if if we do need if it turns out that the coqu think we do need to provide an Al is there space Within current plan to provide an elevator we would come back to this board with a plan that would incorporate an elevator it may require some redesign but if necessary we would come back for an amended s agement that were required right there's no other alternative yeah no I think so um just from my quick research I same I came up with the same stuff as the applicant architect that it's a building code but that is something that I want to make sure that building no because it wasn't it was not put in there were Ada buing for Ada vet low mod right that was what I was asking the low mod vet program requ for that was the answer no the answer no that's why the fact that they're doing two 8 know 8 on the first FL on first FL are the 88 comply on first FL 88 I think that they can be depending on the specific needs of an individual resident they could be made to be the spacing is there you might need to add handrails in certain places right so it's got the 36 inch the turnarounds for wheelchair whatever okay bathroom I mean I mean again it's not a requirement in their agreement it's nice that they're doing it okay right and yeah for the record we we're comparing this to the Redevelopment agreement a different yeah site nor okay um did I miss did we do we go did everybody comment on this for this any questions for this I have a question K yeah um Mr Patel and the prior architect have not to uh have not described what will will be done with garbage and recycling for both properties we're going to do where would it be stored and how will it be picked up there's going to be private hauling Mr Patel will the trash be stored internally until pick up day uh yes internally into the uh into the unit uh second let me just go stipulate that the governing documents for the town home component will also require that the Pils be stored internally so actually there is a um a small sprinkler area but uh besides that there is no room so uh it would be uh I'm not aware of the uh the pickup schedule whether this is going to be uh you know every few days or daily pickup uh but uh uh we can um we can look into it and and uh get back to you there's no j for the veteran buildings yeah uh another question I had was if a tenant owner is moving out where were where were where will their bulk items be stored if they're junking old furniture question so we have a situation as I think most municipalities especially small ones have out they will abandon all kinds of stuff on the curve so the question is but Mr camp and or DPW superintendent who was keenly aware of abanded garbage in Furniture is if if is there a place to hold this stuff especially I think with the veterans homes more than any cells um because they're apartment buildings is there a place for people to are they are they just you know is the HOA is going to call the hauler and have them take it we can certain again there's going to be private hauling and we can certainly agree to make arrangements that will have regular bulk removal for movein and move out there's not there's no dumpster enclosure if in veterans right so people are going to have to trash in the units and take it down for some kind of trash day and the town homes will presumably have some kind of TOS in their GES or something that they'll wheel out to trust correct and we've actually consulted with the public okay and and you'll make sure that something's in the documents with the HOA for both the apartment and the HOA for the others absolutely I think the bigger issue is bulk but we could we can put a requirement in there that it would have to be done on notice to bul is a big deal but remember these are also going to be streets that are going to be traveled by a lot of people going you know up to up to the commercial District so it's a sight less thing too and we have a property maintenance officer in this town who traverses every road uh takes complaints and he also has to be able to site um you know people who are violating our laws which you know the HOA needs to comply with as well you can't like our our law in this law in this town is garbage has to go out at 5 o'clock at night earlier and you got the next day you're supposed to have it back in five o'clock I think it's maybe it's the next day but the same thing with recycling we don't allow them to sit outside we don't want them to sit on we can certainly mirror those requirements right and uh mayor I have I have a couple of rental properties in a uh in a managed Community the managers are are harder on enforcement than than most municipalities absolutely Don what was the other um stipulation for the ho we just talked about complying with ordinance requirements but that regular bul pick up that yeah so they on move in and move out days to the extent that there is going to be any curbed bulk we we'll get rid of it within 24 hours thank you forgive me for my privilege in asking this question because I have a single family home um we have the we have the regulations that it goes to the side of the road it goes out that you suggested right but my trash can sits outside my house doesn't it's it's not internal I'm confused a little bit by this suggestion that all trash will be inside these units town I believe coine Village requires their totor to be inside the garage I believe they do now where would these people in the Veterans Home Store those um their cans um they doesn't seem FL not be popping and down three flight of stairs so they're going to store all that trash in their unit until the day they come down put it on the side of the road I'm just privileged to know this but I I don't see that happening I see them getting their own cans outside and then we'll have cans in random places that L is that a reasonable no you we can absolutely and you can absolutely prohibit that and we would be agreeable to prohibiting that and if we have to do pickup every day in order to make it work that can be arranged for I these things work I I am not prepared to tell you exactly how but we can schedule as frequently as necessary and I I know I don't take the garbage out of my kitchen out to the garage every day well I'm just CU why you wouldn't want a dumpster enclosure over I mean it's just not been proposed the operator didn't ask for it enure easier having a couple of dumpsters with the partic I don't know how I you know the operator again who operates many many many of these similar projects did not ask for it really okay okay well let's hope he doesn't come back here in a couple of years in I well you know we are agreeable to the provision that we're not going to store any of our trash outside we won't have cans outside if it becomes a problem we may very well have to come back here and seek a site plan approval they had a dumpster but I think it can be handled by increasing the frequency of P yes okay okay I know this seems strange but this is this is what this is the the living the the living situation that people deal with every day that these are the kind of issues right impact people more than how the layout of the building works it's how the trash is is within this development because these particularly are quite close to some of the commercial areas also so you I just I just can't to look nice we don't want don't we don't otherwise we may you may have problem where you have black things in just in bages not in to not in can sit for high development that you're proposing not to have somewhere okay how does the rest of the board feel I just my own here location for no question s yeah what you do you see what I'm saying Mr Miss car is there a Mr Luciano in the attendees no we have Gary Dean oh Dennis had his hand up Dennis you have a comment on this a question I I totally agree I'm totally confused where talking in the room H sorry I just asked him to stop sharing the screen all right yeah okay Dennis and Han I totally agree I'm I'm totally confused about not addressing the trash with Apartments um people aren't going to run out to get to the garbage truck when they're coming by so they they definitely need a plan on how trash is going to be handled in the apartments um whether it's a dumpster or whatever definitely needs to be addressed so I agree I agree too and then Hannah you have a hand rais well I had a just a quick question that we could like where could someone just remind me where the AC units are are there AC units the testimony was that they're located within the um within the so the actual units are with I know that oh oh so like the actual Machinery is within okay yeah okay okay so they're not outside because I was going to say if there were if they were outside and we could ask for like kind of Pi an enclosure around them could we not then put something like a trash en closure next to that but right yeah yeah you mean if the condensers are yeah yeah yeah but okay cond the condensers are inside too sorry what you say condenser is inside not just the air handler the condensers are are going to be outside there's no way to put the condensers on inside so where would those be are they on the back of the apartments or are they on the side uh usually they're they're at the back of the apartment so it's not visible and they're grouped together so okay um servicing them is is little easier okay and there's no is there any form of like a like a covering to make it look nicer too around that uh I mean these ones are these ones are small um condensers you know maybe like 30 by 30 and uh usually they're screen by um uh the vegetation or or you know bushes okay we have a site plan that shows that that yeah no you don't I think the site plan for that location was shown in the last meeting so Mr tronco are we proposing screening uh landscaping around the AC units for the veterans buildings for all for all of the structur you're still B There you go definitely we'll be screening yeah but when are they on the side plan and mainly because I'm thinking also because if they they have to be large enough to go around a condenser right to give it space you can't pull it tight to a condenser there has to be airflow so then how far out from the building are they and then do we get into the um 25t problem with a fence well I think it's vegetative buffer so but I I wanted to provide a potential solution to trash if if I can ask Mr poochie to share his screen there well I'm going to do two things I'm going to answer your question and then answer the other question that he just alluded to the first one was the 25 foot buffer is for the second floor Min space the ground floor there's a 10- foot buffer requirement with the Stagger trees so there is that extra gap of extra 15 ft on the ground floor right but uh if I can share my screen I believe I'm still a panelist all right so this is just a vob of the site plan view of the veterans homes area uh this is sheet 14 of 35 of the submitted plan set and there was actually a question raised I Believe by Mr clerico I maybe by Mr Harris office about why there is this large bit of concrete between the two veterans buildings as opposed to just a tiny little side one and the thought was well give the people a place to hang out uh they want to sit outside put out a chair but g whatever they want to do uh just commiserate with their fellow veterans however we can certainly put a screened enclosure similar to what you were just suggesting but screening with a fencing similar to what is being used elsewhere the the white white vinyl um um privacy fencing and store one or two cans per building for exterior storage but not exterior viewable exterior screen storage for collection so are there windows that would like I would leave that up to the architect Mr Patel where because course you want to avoid the window of course right you don't want to see it you don't want to smell it agree that's on the bedroom side yes yes please do okay maybe there's a question Mr just is it not typical for us on a side plan to show all of these things on a side plan we usually see like where the hbac here is going so we can answer these questions about screening don't we typically ask where the garbage collection is going to be on a s plan so so maybe Mr Harris like why on Earth are we not getting these things on these CES like what is there anything Redevelopment agreement that exempts them from doing normal stuff here no there's not there's Mak an awful lot of time in the public hearings it feels on stuff that should just be on the plan so there's there's nothing in the Redevelopment agreement then then like it's frustrating to not have the information that we need to um make a decision absolutely yes and we um thank you to the applicant that the process goes a lot quicker when all that information is available um before completeness doesn't help our process is it well we don't have it at this moment we don't have it so we've had a suggestion of where it might go but it's not ideal at this moment we're not quite sure could be by the right it seems like a good I look I you know I mean I've got a million doors in my political life I have never seen an Building without a dumpster ever single family homes yeah you put in in tow houses your put in your garage but even at Flemington South Estates in R Township where I was did mayor the single family homes and the tow houses they have garages they have dump they have and Condominiums over there which are Garden Apartments two stories upstairs Apartments downstairs Apartments they have dumpsters and they're not right on top of somebody's living space so this is like I just don't I this just seems very um squished and not well thought out and um you know not like a real good quality of life not know I don't I mean I'm not comfortable with that I can offer a simple way garbage right I'll just I'll put a dump string we have excess parking spaces quite a few of them I'll take out one or two put in a dumpster in the parking lot to the left the one that was described as the long finger lot out you know Mr clco described that still keeping the handicap spaces right close to the unit then put a dumpster so that anyone can walk their stuff there with an enclosure of course in an enclosure suitable to Mr that's our you have fine and the H compressor units do we know where those are going in relation to the building right now we got they would go right behind the building the landscape Artic said they would be screen right and you've got room to the West Northwest of the upd buildings um to not inced upon the uh radation that's there because of the Landscaping buffer the sorry the bio retention Basin that's over there of where I'm talking about for are you the veterans buildings yeah are you questioning the dumpster or the no no not the dumpster the the H units they're as he said 30 Ines it's not going to really affect anything I just remember there being a tight there's there's a slope there I believe there's a relatively gentle slope at the building and then it steepens up beyond that where I at the toe of the slope which is the property line which is where we discussed last week with Mr Paro about putting in some drains to his satisfaction okay I'm thinking maybe as part of our resolution we can say that the location of those um condenser units has to be agreed with our planner to be in in a good location in terms of the livability of where they are they can put them in the center back or and related to the other requirements I trust I trust our professionals I trust our professionals I'm just making the observation that we are putting an awful lot on our professionals when normally when we see a s plan even in a Redevelopment area we have all of these details ahead of us the board really just directs the members of the public get to see what's being talked about as opposed to leaving it for the professionals to work out after again not that we don't trust our professionals it's just that for the members of the public who want to see what's being talked about then they don't see it and it's not I just don't think I just it's not the way we usually do things that's all no and I completely agree and straight I agree with Jeff on that I don't disagree it didn't come up in any of the review letters or we would have addressed it ahead of time and it's not Universal that that's something that you demonstrate in every site plan application because they can vary depending on you know installation requirements if you do a left-and side the right hand side unit in order to provide that different fenestration for the buildings you might have a compressor with a with a with a utility room on the left hand side as opposed to the right hand side and I think that that's what goes into the maintaining the greatest flexibility as to where they go that may be your experience our experience I can say we usually see them where they don't so it is frustrating um okay any more um questions from the board for this witness so for the record we are amendable if if the board deems it appropriate to add a dumpster it's going to require removing two parking spaces but parking will still be compliant it will be screened and we will work with the Township's professionals to identify the appropriate loation I should just stick with municipality with the municipalities professionals to uh to identify appropriate air conditioning as well as the Mak sure things are Co required and the outside professionals make sure ABS that their satisfaction that it matches the outside of the other the exterior the veteran homes more closely match the that was ref all this extra professionals work um do you have um another witness uh well Mr poochie was already qualified as a professional planner very quickly at the outset of this hearing I listed out all of the DV iations from the Redevelopment plan that are part of our application and part of our request you concur with that list of deviations I do I also listed a number of them and they are also contained within the uh K re report and in your opinion as a professional planner can these variances be granted without a substantial detriment to the to the Zone plan absolutely and do the benefits of graning these variances outweigh any detriment yes and in fact with respect to the project itself we're talking about the one variance from the parking setb the balance of the variances are all related to the buildings that are being preserved that is correct of all the variants is listed only one relates to the proposed project and it's consistent as I said with the onset plan that was run through the advisory committee and the council and it's just that 7 fo setback issue that we discussed the prior hearing that we chose to stick with that and not WRA a sidewalker on the back of it um other than that all the other variances and deviations relate specifically to the preservation of the one Church Street Building and the Allies building upon separate Lots both in their current that is correct thank you further Witnesses F Witnesses do you want to make a closing CL just testif the plan so professionals the plan you have any questions from plan okay just one General one I in my report I listed a number of what I observed to be non-compliant residential site Improvement standards you be able to address all those we will address all of them to your satisfaction if they you're not asking the board to gr and even leave them us no okay I just to make that perfect the the exception to that would be the parking sidewalk sidewalk is should be discussed last here yes and the the off the offset intersection at the North yes we did Des that's an exception true the exception on the offset distance of Central Station is its church because of the preservation the one Church you building that was captured last time was it that's an RSI is exception okay thank you anybody on the board question this with as a planner I not sure if it's out the plan I'm trying to [Music] um so um Bob can you the last hearing we were talking about the road the configuration of the road and um stangle um and issues with that and based on Sur looked at um that were provided by the Africans um it looks like the roads were all private the when I raised it origin in my report and what I supplemented I it was yesterday or today to the applicant engineer is that there's inconsistency in the plan we have one document that says we're talking about Sangle Road here um that it's a private road we have other documents that say there's there's easements there's references to a recorded book and page of certain easements the title report that was given included one of those but not the other one um and the underlying question here is that Sangle Road based on everything I'm aware of and the documentation provided is a public road um it has certain rights of way uh that are somewhat undefined as they go through this particular property and it's maintained by the burrow from M Street all the way out toout 12 yes which raised the question where and I mentioned in my report they're moving the road uh as part of this development uh which is going to require the burrow not the planning board but the governing body to consider a request to vacate whatever rights they have in certain elements of the road and then the question is going to be in exchange for that are you accepting additional rights for the road where it's being relocated so when the Redevelopment agreement was done it was under the belief that this was all privately owned um I don't know if the applicant has done a deep di title search but it was brought to my attention after that hearing that the burough does do traffic control and has an ordinance from 1982 putting speed limits on it further unpacking shows that the buau took the road legally in 1974 I am trying to unpack this this is all like unraveling as of yesterday and this morning I don't know who really owns this road and to title but how back how far back to so I this is a it's a there there as Mr said there are some conflicting uh bits of information we have uh well first of all we did prepare a survey a couple of years ago we then prepared the Subdivision plat with updated information that is somewhat inconsistent with regard to ownership but it's not completely clear we do have um a number of deeds in the title report and inde deed research some would show as a public RightWay some show as an easement for a public RightWay and some show as private and our intent is to work with Mr Claro's office and the governing body to make sure that whatever rights and or rights of way or easements that need to be extinguished in its current configuration wrapping around Timberland and Polo that will we will work with that Mr Clark I'll prepare whatever easement documentation ever dedication documentation whatever is necessary so there's two reconfigure it in the current location that it's shown on the concept plan and make sure the burrow has the rights All rights to maintain use whatever you need all the way from as you said mine down to 12 so there's actually a couple of things here number one Whatever survey en title searches you have I request that you please send him to the burrow attorney who is unpacking for us um Chris cor so that's thing one thing two is that because we were under the belief that this was going to be Qui Road including to my predecessor who started the site plan originally it was always agreed by the redeveloper that this was going to be maintained by the HOA that the B would not have any responsibility for snow removal or maintenance or anything there is a concern from my DTW superintendent and rightfully so that um the burough doeses maintain stle Road from mine Street to L eagle and currently they're pushing all the snow right to that end because it's all fenced off and um there is a concern that that road needs to be stay maintained and open that perhaps an HOA won't be able to get snow people out as fast as we do to make because this is like for emergency purposes right somebody's having a heart attack in one of your condos one of your town houses veteran whatevers you know we got to get an emergency vehicle and we can't be waiting for some BT group to come in and plow Road right um it's also it's also a major artery connecting M Street to 12 so I think we really need to unpack the ownership and figure this out um as fast as possible so if you can get feed surveys title searches whatever you've got regarding Sangle Road from Lone Eagle to M Street to2 as fast as possible we're trying to figure this out now very very very pleased to do so I think ultimately what you're going to find out is that it's a mess of inconsistent know I already know that this actually is a good opportunity for us to fix it we will remove what no longer applies and we will put in place whatever the burrow wants to apply so we can fix this as part of this process and we're medable to do it I know it isn't it's the whole Road from from the easement don't line up with the legal descriptions and the surveys don't I've tried to go through it and there is it's an old industrial side of town Wild Wild West no um that now is that something when does that have to happen by in terms of this site I don't I'm looking to car for that one well the Burrows engineer already had comments that we have to provide the appropriate easements and accesses I mean it's something that we're going to have to do as a part of resolution compliance and uh you know I I don't care if I work with Carol or if I work with the with the Burrow's attorney we have to come up with an appropriate vacation plan and new easements to put in place and we don't have any indication from what you guys have looked at that it's anyone other than no we control the land necessary to to give you rights new stangle I mean well you know certainly put a condition in how we're going to handle it my concern was if it was somebody else but you're not seeing anything other than those two we control the the bed of stle road as it's proposed you think right that that we know that we have I I double checked that earlier today I'm not saying it's not fible I just know this is a situation I actually see it probably as a blanket vacation of everything that's pre-existing out there just so that it's a clean slate and then put a new put a new right in place right part of that said the governing B's going have to decide what elements of this they want if it is a BL streen the ver has been what do they want right you know be dedicated on this and what responsibilities go okay but I mean we can't we can't as a condition okay we can't necessarily compel the governing body to do anything as a no no right right so so so I think we have to the language is is is got to be specific around what we have jurisdiction over right okay I'm try yeah I mean I'm thinking something along the lines of if we're talking you know we establish ownership we're talking maintenance you know there's going to be some agreement worked out whether it's going to be the burrow whether it's going to be you guys whether it's going to some sort of combination of the two um sow plowing where it's going to go put a plan together who's going to do it and how that's going to work you know government doesn't like private roads yeah and we have a couple in this town we don't like it so that's an issue um for my DPW and especially since we have a well that needs public the public Road open um you we had a question earlier a gentleman about who's going to be watching this site I mean besides the planning board professionals that wellhouse is visited 365 seven days a week every single day by law to do readings and he's got to be able to get in there no matter what the conditions are so just to assure the public there's a DPW um person on that site every day whether there's construction happening or not somebody's got to be on that site and so we got to make sure that road is is navigable it's an understandable concern we've we've been amenable to maintaining those roads as private and taking care of them if that doesn't work for the burrow then I'm not sure well I mean you know it's a financial consideration Public Safety condition so you know I'm we can I'm sure counil from you know everybody from the fire department to the DPW to icfo you know like look fig out I'm not saying it's not an interal problem it just needs to be still needs to be it be oh I'm sure there's something that we're going to need do all right for me remind me we were on we did I did both questions for this I just wanted to check there thank you um so we we move on to public any members of the public with questions for this witness as with regards his testimony as a planner on this project um anybody online I don't see any hands raised um anybody in the in attending right now have a question for this witness see no chair that completes my presentation I touching okay because I was going to say 10:30 and I said we had a hard stop at 10:30 because we have other business to attend to but you don't do a final um yeah that's what I'm looking at like we so have you're not having a final statement but we also have a period for public comment and then we have a period for board discussion with our professionals are you will hearing now or you're trying to Fig and then figure out the next order or are you trying to decide what to do next what's your P given that how long that could take everybody here is volunteer to work tomorrow um and it's 10:30 already okay so I guess the question The Next Step well yeah I my question was going to be if you want to wait to do a summation until that Fe I I was waving a summation because I you know I thought there was a potential that we could wrap this this even I understand whatever the board's decision is obviously we'll live by it but I think the board understands the project doesn't need a can I make a plea can I make a plea to try to hear the public I don't think there's many people here maybe one person is going to talk and then we're done with public hearing and then if you guys I don't know what discussion time you need to have before you vote but it's so important that I get a vote tonight I've said this the last few meetings but I know we weren't done but we're done and I I I literally think maybe just five more minutes and public hearing would be done and we could get to a vote I can't get the financing to get this project going everybody said we want to get it going we want to do this soil work that has to be done right now the system is the entire mall is disconnected can I can I ask my board well I was going to ask my board before we waste any more time so what I was going to ask my board is do we feel given the nature of how we like to discuss things and what we need feel we need to discuss that you want to have the public comments and our discussion tonight we know how we go will we get this discussion done in half hour is it reasonable or are we're gonna go I don't want to go to midnight I'm not doing that right so we've done that before we've had a long time discussion do we bring them back I listen I'll stick around a little bit to get this thing done but I I don't know if we're gonna get it done that's the thing that's the problem we stay and then we don't get it done we still we try how many people in want to make comment now you asked questions before now there would be a time for comment while you like to say how many people wish to make a comment on this application on the information you've Lear tonight and previous nights on this hearing comments on this topic one three minutes then if the board is minded if we feel our discussion I'm I'm Al okay don't shoot me anybody but I'm Al okay doing a special meeting just to finish this prob we have time to know let's give it a shot and if not we'll do that okay 48 hours that would be very helpful thank are you okay I just wanted to hear make sure you're hearing the public comment if I move on hear okay all right so public comment if anybody wants to make a public comment we ask that they be restricted to three minutes you state your name and your address for the record uh come to the mic as we did previously please one more time Alex Gish 25 Brown Street U just in case if I'm out of time or I'll get interrupted you can find more information on the Facebook under hon M NJ or hon underground no we actually cannot look at anything online everything needs to be presented this okay at this time I would like to submit the list of my commands uh to the committee it's been submitted before but successfully we this got it is this com can you raise your right hand to the truth whole truth nothing but truth nothing but truth thank you so here we can handw written comment if you like to read that's fine I will leave I'll leave the copy because I was interrupted before so I prefer to have on I do I do object canot it has to be spoken into the record all right then you have to give me extended time little minutes okay as usual that's what happened before okay so unfortunately to fil the lawsuit against Liberty Village due to their negligence and ignorance since 2009 I asked Liberty willage to maintain their trees but neglect but they neglected and later they refused to do it I file a complain against Liberty Village was flamington Bor but Bor ignored the situation this caus substantial damages to my property uh this is not just a simple neighbor tree dispute as mayor Carol said before uh flaming to requires permits feace and or face the stiff penalties at this time I'm out of pocket over $35,000 and my fees are grown because of legal expenses uh this was easily preventable fixable and taxpayers would never have to Carri the Nuance tax burden to pay for borrow lawyers either I demand that we wait for the court decision any construction begin start two Liberty Village is looking to install flood Basin next to my house on 25 Brown Street without investigating the depth of my basement is water table and negative impact in my building also did not guarantee that it's not going to fail my sun pump is run all the time and I don't need no more Waters in my building according to New Jersey stor water best man practice manual March 2021 page number two blood Basin can create significant risk or adverse hydraulic impact such as flooding uh in base of the basements and surface ponding uh it's also going to create the mold we don't need the Liberty vage Waters they're washed Street garbage in the Brown Street and in our basement and deal with mold known previous failures not to properly address and repair their they need to scrap or relocate this Basin away from my property should Liberty willage and a Bor construct the storm water retention system my property value will decline due to DP restrictions I will also face restrictions as far as improvements and expansions this will this will also likely to increase the insurance premium or declination of the coverage it may also declare it can always declare can be declared as a flood zone I demand its relocation away from my property your storm water system fail who's liable I will not ask my insurance to cover it I'm not willing to pay any more legal fees I'm done with the court system and I'm done going back and forth with the flyon Bor I demand you relocate what a system Bo from my property more playgrounds do you propose elsewhere it's too close to my building and I don't want noise to disturb my tenant and that can cause to mon losses to my building to uh some people have to rest during the day because of their late night shifts and will also create traffic which Brown Street has limited parking already I demand relocating playground away from a property this is not Recreation propert this is not Recreation Area this project was handled mostly behind closed doors during executive session me wrap up your comment yes uh I was called as a nutcase by Mr balone before I demand apology thank you I demand the answers and I demand I did not ask you to comment I'm talking right now I'm talking right now you already said nothing thank you thank you we don't need you see what he's doing you let him get I'm doing yeah you're a joke thank you thank you everybody heard this let it be on the record too I'm I just start to be for judicial proceeding please everybody thank you are there any further comments anybody in the public would wish to make Point okay I'm G to move that we close the public hearing a second please sorry second all in favor hi hi next stage board discussion open up discuss I can't wait I can't wait to see this resolution nether I'll stus on the Big M but I'll go quick um thank you um so I've raised a couple of questions over the last few hearings uh from and and and just the the and I think the the last thing I said before was probably the most on point I'm just for a project that's been in the works for so long for some something that we've been all looking forward for so long for something that has been uh a site that's been needing work most of my time living a block away from Brown Street I'm in that that's my end of town I'm I'm paying attention to to this very closely uh I'm I'm frankly disappointed by the lack of preparation by the applicant to to the to the work that's what's been put in front of the board there have been a number of things that we've had to do in public session that had uh should have been done ahead of time and and I know that it's not for the lack of our professionals encouraging them to come ready with detail some site plans and it's not silly little things like dumpsters although it's also silly little things like dumpsters and things like that it's it's the difference between having a concept plan in a Redevelopment plan in RDA which is one set of these steps in the process and then there's what's needed to come for for the planning board I know that the uh the death need to redeveloper has plenty of experience it's not that uh it's a lack of skill or expertise doing it um so it's it you know I say all this just as a as a frustration by what a lot of material but not much to look at in terms of the details that we would need to to to adjudicate it that said you know if we are adjudicating this against the uh the approved Redevelopment plan that that Council voted on then you know they've the the what they' presented in my opinion meets what's in there it meets what's in the planning but there's all these conditions there's all of these letters there's all of these things that we're putting an awful lot of weight and a lot of burden on our professionals to make sure that they get it right without the benefit of all of us um being able to weigh in and I hopefully the applicant and his professionals have seen that that we've got a very engaged board here in Flemington that likes to to have everything done right the first time um if at all possible so um I know I know that our professionals if this thing were to if this is to be approved with all the conditions that has been furiously scribbling down um you know trust them to hopefully capture what we've all been talking about for the last several meetings here um but there are there's there's legitimate you know concerns about the way that the the testimony was given concerned about what was given to us as a board to review um I I I think that judged against the Redevelopment plan they've they met they've met it and I think that the the the minor variances that they're asking for are logical and consistent and they don't DET there isn't a detriment to the plan we're talking about the preservation of two properties which I think we all agree is a really important thing to be doing a dedication to the burrow of a site fixing the issues of the road I these are all things that are uh you know good net net for the town cleaning up a contaminating site is a good good thing for the town the storm water infrastructure is good overall for the town how they go about doing it and getting there is the stuff that that we needed some more I think we need I just felt like we needed more details on um I mean that's that's kind of where I'm there's where my head is in terms of wor Stu I thank you for raising it and I concur I do want to make a state say that um before we got to completeness I suggested to the applicant that the way to make this go faster and better for everybody was not withstanding all the great work that they've done talking with the council the Redevelopment and all the work that had gone to there that this was a really good opportunity to to Define what was now taking place because things have changed over the discussions that we've been working with um I recognize also that this project started outside this administration too it's been there's been a lot of work but I was very frustrated with the site plans that came when I said because I'd said we need this is a good chance to get the right site plan fits let's have a really good site plan this is what we compare against for resolution compliance for what's going to happen in the future and and I too have been frustrated by that presentation by the site plan we've been given in documents and and it has made the pro and the reason I raised that in all back in August was that it makes this thing go slower the reason we've needed all the meetings is because it takes longer when that happen like clear that's not what it doesn't help the process for anybody slows it down for everybody so yes that's a really good point to make and I I thank you for raising it but I I I I I'll open it up to the rest of the board before I do any final statements other than that so um is anybody else on let's go online first I do Karen all right go on mik from the start of the process with the applicant George vone he's been very receptive especially his engineer M on our water and sore issues that were brought up over the last couple of months I don't doubt that anything in that in the planning board resolution if we get this far that they will address I have faith in them I do based on the issues that they resolved that we brought up over the past couple of months thank you no M that's a really good point and I I did say um from watching the video of the last meeting I was very impressed by the way that the applicant and the professionals have been open to listening to the comments that came through and totally open to amending the plans and and and incorporating the questions that were raised but again to Mr DNA's Point usually that happens and then we get a full proper set of plans that incorporate all of that um to vote on and right now there's a lot on Trust on all b car I'm going to write everything down for us and then the actual plan that will be constructed isn't out there right now as far as I really fair play to say it so that's a frustration again all right anybody else online Dennis I agree with what's been said so far by our other board members and in the fact that there were a lot of a lot of discussions and there were um there seem to be a lot of things that still need touchup in order to make it you know the best plan um and I would think that there's be multiple conditions on any approval that we would have to give thanks Jim Dennis I I I would Echo what's been said um it it almost feels like because so much work went on with the burrow Council on the Redevelopment plan where maybe the developer felt they didn't have to come in with as much information and it seemed like trying to get that after but um you know I I think um you know where we're at a lot of conditions but in the spirit of the Redevelopment plan it seems consistent and it's also a big improvement from the earlier version too Point Dennis thank you yeah that's a really good point yeah and that's because because of a lot of the work that we referenced that we've done the council developer was open to So yeah thank you Hannah again agreed with what everyone's been saying um I think there's a lot kind of left to be figured out but at the same time I appreciate how receptive they've been um and how they how receptive they seem to be moving forward at the same time and I hope that continues to um but again it's just there's still like as je is saying and and there's still a lot kind of being revealed a little bit that's a little too much at this point but they're also falling along the lines with the Redevelopment plan and they've done a good job doing that um but again like I agree with what everyone's been saying so far so thanks Melissa got anything um pretty much to Echo everyone else I think we kind of took a roundabout way to get here where we are tonight but and I know we have tons of condition conditions but I I do have confidence that whatever we wind up with the resolution that George and his crew of professionals will work with our guys and gals to get what we need to get this moving along okay thanks Maron I believe in the good face system you know team did a great job um but to Echo the same thing PR a but you know I I see you all I could only imagine Liberty Village as just stores but um the plan I believe it's going to be a nice finished product um and your team did a good job today though uh you know there were there were questions that know Jeff brought up Marca um Adrian and Karen herself and you know it was a little bit difficult for me to grasp on but you know I do I do see what you're doing and uh you know I appreciate that at least but um yet this was a little bit unorthodox you know usually we have information here you know presented and we have everything here to where it's it's clear not everything has to be clear but you know there was a little bit of difficulty understanding uh key aspects trash you know um condensers things of that nature so um but overall though I I do believe that your team's going to do a great job I have absolutely no comments to make on this other than to say this my camp on um is is a strong influence on me when I work with him in other committees and that's um that has a lot of weight Mr Camp I just I want to Echo what Mike said um and it is Mike weighing in and saying U you know that he's had really good experiences with uh for the Builder or anybody big words um but it's been my experience as well I mean I've been working with George now for close to two years and um 2023 I I don't even I saw him more than I saw my dog I think um so you know but everything that the burough asked for pretty much George has guaranteed us delivered put into the agreement um you know promis is a nice product it's worth work very hard with with Beth mcmanis to make sure things look good for the town [Music] um and uh you know we have a I think um you know the agreement gives the world a lot of positives um the the tension Basin um on Brown Street you know was the request from our BPW to alleviate the flooding that was coming coming right down Brown Street uh to try to solve that problem flooding is an issue in this town and hopefully this site plan is going to alleviate flooding across the Liberty Village site help with flooding on stangle road and on Brown Street and on Main Street and Grant I mean it's a it's a big project um you know um the neighborhood wanted a public park nearby and you know George has designed what I think is a is a little gem um you know for the neighborhood I don't think there's going to be a huge influx of traffic we're going to see some some crams and uh my not good some crams with uh with babies and and moms and dads coming over to use that Park and grandmas and it'll be a nice addition to the community um and I think George will work very hard with her professionals work at all these these you know some very big issues some very minor issues some quirky issues as only fling to could produce the quirky issue like Spar Road and ownership um you know 50 years after took ownership who knows um is when I cursed my father because he was sitting here that time in 1974 um uh but um you know I think I think Hannah said is a much better project than the original this is a much better project than the original uh it's it's it's better laid out it's prettier it's doesn't have you know the original was going to have uh uh close to 300 and something units U we're down to and um 23 units total and uh which I think is better for the community the school superintendent agrees with you know the projections on you know School numbers of kids at 25 is they could have a huge impact in the school system um we have a really I think we negotiated a really good pilot with the the redeveloper um plus you know there's other benefits for the bureau on infrastructure infrastructure improvements well improvements you know it's this project cleans up the site donates a historical you know preserve the historical building for the buau that are your preservation commission thought was important enough to fight for which is the Fran boundary office building which will stay you know with the redeveloper but be in public use and you know donates another building to the Bur to use Rec B which most likely not to um because you know government is St owning buildings so um you know it's better just not to um but I mean overall this you know this project was coming uh I know some people in public are sad about losing Liberty Village as a store they would have liked to receive something else but this project was coming um and I think that overall um I I'm not going to say it's as good as we could get it's a good project for the burough I really believe that and it's going to be a very walkable Community not just for the people who live there but for everybody um really nice streets um you know connecting into neighborhoods connecting into a vibrant commercial district and um you know I I think uh I think we're gonna just work after quirks because like I said I can't wait to see Char solution yeah and to that part I want to Echo a lot of everything that everybody said basically that that you know frustrations aside um I acknowledge that this is the second attempt at this project this is the second iteration of the project which and it is much better and and something I just want to raise as a general thing is um you you've suuck at it and and I was it's to the point that the previous thing was rush through and it couldn't have been built and this is a much better project speaks to my my feeling for this the way this I want this board to look at things is that it's best not to rush something through that ends up being the wrong thing that can't be built and isn't right and now we've done it again and we stuck by it and we've got to a pretty good solution um and I want to acknowledge that um however as everybody says there's a lot of um come going to be if this goes through this gets voted through um there'll be a lot of conditions and there' be a lot of things for our our professionals to help you along way to get this to completion and I'll just put it out there that um because there's a lot going to be on trust right now because they're not on the site plan there's a lot of trust we're going to put in the process moving forward um I'm just going to put you on notice that I'm going to be asking for resolution compliance regularly on this and and and checking where it's going and making sure that we're moving along and that things are being done as per this resolution to make sure that that the trust that the public is put in as on us vote if it goes through is actually undertaken that we've agreed to rather than you you know what I'm saying that we don't have it on the plans but we're going to be checking that out we're going to be I'm just and I'm sure you would expect nothing less all your professionals B extremely professional you are we're all going to be very interested in this but we're going to make sure that these things happen um to the satisfaction of the public and for your project say on that so having said that car do we have to you have to read through for if if we to have I I don't know how you can posibly she does every time she manages to achieve it read that to all the things that the conditions that we've set for is that what you like me to do right now at 1059 yes yes so usually with something like this I draft it and have it and have everybody take a look at it because we know that it needs to be on record as a condition otherwise there's a potential issue that I'm going to ask for some latitude and have the first condition be that anything that was agreed to on the record but not incorporated as a condition is then incorporated as a condition absolutely um all right so that'll be number one no particular order I'm just going to go through and we may have some uh duplicates but I'll do my best um all right so items p and 23 in completeness um we had discussed with regard to the testing of storm water management compliance that the board has to make a finding of um we're going to indicate that the board has going a temporary finding of compliance based upon a testimony presented to the board documents provided to the board the ultimate testing must be done prior to building permit uh with regard to any of the four residential structures um I wanted to find my that was that was actually my first the day I've added yeah four the four we said that was going to be [Music] after Post building Demolition and Remediation before any site related improvements um however soil importation is permitted that's only the official testing with regard to the seasonal High Ground Water must be completed um it sh the applicant shall comply with the Redevelopment plan and the agreement except as otherwise set forth here in applicant has to provide property of an Loi um changes to the Electric and Gas Service locations uh must come back for amended approval and any plan or Landscaping adjustments if necessary um the electric and gas locations must respect the plans uh if uh or they have to come back for an amendment as we indicated all identification of all affordable housing location will be on the plans uh the applicant will uh work with the burrow governing body to vacate any new rights and public rights of ways with regard to stangle Road or elsewhere any discrepancies between the Redevelopment agreement the Redevelopment plan and this board's approval resolution uh must be addressed by the applicant and the board's professional to see if amended board approval is [Music] required the applicant will comply with all comments in the letters of the board professionals except as noted and specifically I have a couple I just want to put on the record um item 2.1.3 of Mr Clo's letter this is uh with regard to the dective Fountain 2.1.5 uh this is with regard to the sidewalks on both sides of the public and private streets both of those were also dealt with in the planners report uh 2.3.2 uh with regard to rsis requirements for sidewalks along streets with nonparallel parking again that's also in the planers report 3.2 uh this is the proposed sidewalk Crossing parking areas again rsis issue uh 3.3 with regard to pedestrian access for the part paring area designed for multif family units that was the dialogue we had this where that was going to go and Jay waiting on that everybody waiting on that a little bit 4.5.5 uh actually I think this is it the accommodation of the required sidewalk construction along the perpendicular parking areas 4.5.6 um this is with regard to the excessive amount of fill being installed on the western portion of the site the applicant has indicated they will work with the board engineer to resolve that issue to satisfaction uh 5.1 cannot comply with the um green infrastructure storm water management requirements but I will say that to the extent that that's required uh for storm water management according to the regs uh obviously that's something the applicant's going to have to do 5.7.3 um this is the requirement that the storm water basin along Route 12 be a water impoundment West B West Basin again with regard to the decorative Fountain not something the applicant is going to do uh 9.4 details of the mtds which I don't know what that is if somebody can tell me thank youj to the sidewalk to be provided to show that they will not complect the pedestrian travelway I don't know why why couldn't we comply with that yeah have to do that yeah that's what I'm saying I don't know why I had that then all right what I said was I need that's all got it okay uh all right moving on to the planners report um again there's going to be some dupes here but they will not comply with 4.3a uh again this is the fountain requirement 5.3a this is their not uh this they're not will not provide the sidewalk along the Westerly side of Central Station at the route to entrance 5.3 B will not provide the sidewalk along the western side of eventually AV the Church Street entrance C and D they're going to do e we're going to leave it as is that the applicant should provise the sidewalk plan provide the sidewalks that they will do 6.2 d that's the public water fountain or bottle refilling station exuse I think e was was a no so we're not going to do e yeah I think e was the whole question about backing in or okay so we're gonna leave it as is on Central Station that's what I have the applicant should revise the sidewalk plan provide sidewalks on the road rather than behind perpendicular parking um so you're you're not doing not doing that because Jay said don't do yep okay I knew there was a lot of back and forth on that one all right so that one not that's included in the list I think that's the last one in the planners report that they're not going to do water 4 um the applicant sh approval for the B of any work on the right away uh the applicant Pro shall provide all necessary easements um one with regard to uh any reference spaces along Church Street the Allies building for the benefit of a burrow blanket and cross access eement say noted on the plans again all these things are to the satisfaction of the board professionals the applicant will amend the shy and Landscaping plan to conform with the planner's requirements roads will be private and not dedicated to the burrow and all will be the hoa's responsibility now that was a prior comment I know we've discussed that a lot tonight so that will actually be amended to say that the burrow will work with the applicant to determine ownership of the roadway specifically Sangle and come to an agreement with regard to um maintenance and other issues relating to it and the one before that on the Landscaping we we added in the for the um ones that back up to Brown that they'll adjust it for privacy going back this is like page two some of them are going to be Chang a little bit um private waste removal um the applicant shall fix the parking number on the pl from 256 to 266 I have that right I think so might be 264 yes because we're taking away two or something all right so 266 or 264 sidewalks along long both sides of Forage Road and obviously all these the plans are going to be revised to show this um the applicant shall come back for signage approval for any nonresidential buildings if necessary the B ID you said that um again kind of a do but the applicant to address that will take care of Maintenance and snow plowing on its portions and the bur will take care of its it's kind of the same as before um amend the plan to incorporate the new A5 grading plan and move one town home to the South poster Route 12 uh this style of the fence will be amended as per the discussion with the neighbor this is with regard to loone building additional landscape buffering on the other side of the fence by Lo needle public offering statement uh shall include information with regard to the active commercial District that the homes will be adjacent to as well as the railroad and and anything else to be placed on the record um the app there shall be uh regular construction meetings that will be held uh and construction schedule created um to the satisfaction of the board professionals and the bureau um this is definitely something that the buau has been struggling with in connection with the current Redevelopment plan so I want to make sure that that's very clear and that's taken care of um thorough must always be available and not cut off during construction I guess that would stangle would we add that to the mention as well and the access to that well I think uh think it's on the plan that he's giving giving the uh be an extra land there okay sorry came up with discussion about the business owners tell me what that issue is I don't know if I have that in here uh so access uh shall always be provided uh to the DPW to access the well they have their own access not touching Route 12 it's a that's not something I just thinking it impinged through the site that they need to be given safe access to the site to get to it but it's no they have their own way okay yeah there's a there's a draw by okay the applicant shall provide copies of all title work to the B attorney the applicant shall provide documentation with regard to the prior lsrps information which I understand is basically a onepage map um with regard to Y thank you read my own handr um we talked about preliminary compliance with regards to storm water talk to about AFC shall work with the B and make sure that all necessary maintenance and Reporting is done to the DVP with regards to storm water I want to make sure that section 8.5 in the board planners report is specifically included as a condition um we also want to make sure that there's some sort of plan we can work on exactly how to do that um but prior to each group of units being constructed that there's a plan shown so we can ensure that there is the um difference in the in the style of those Town Homes we don't have any um they're not all the exact same style there's a differential with the elevations that were presented to the board tonight the exterior finishes um and that should be done prior to I would say pulling the footings and Foundation plans I think that makes the most sense so there's we don't have any issue with regard to not being able to move not being able to change it if necessary will mix up the exterior materials of the Town Homes limitation will be placed in the public offering statement with regard to the deck location and owners will real will be advised that they cannot build a deck that is larger than what was originally offered by the developer developer will maximize the tree miix to ensure as much screening as possible of ajacent residents to satisfy the bo professionals um there was a lot of discussion I'm not sure we're 100% sure on where we are but as to what the veterans low mod requirements are with regard to Ada elevators Etc so I think the require the way the way we kind of landed was that uh if if elevators are required in the apartment buildings to meet po requirements they agreed to do so and we can just leave it leave it we can leave it as the satisfaction of the board's professional that's what I was going to say you have to comply with whatever the requirements are um and big those are to be 100% sure but they get the satis professionals um compliance with the elements of the facade to the board planner isfaction that's probably D somewhere um compliance with all ada8 parking requirements um there was testimony that were have sufficient 88 parking but they can provide more if necessary I think that facade question you just went it was related to the Veterans building matching yes thank you yep yep um because yes the issue was that she didn't get a chance actually take a look at what those elements are so the elevations and the um elements of the facades with regard to the veterans housing uh will be reviewed and approved the satisfaction the board planner yes we talked about ADA here I had this V veterans home version reviewed by Beth okay um no outside storage of garbage cans there will be garbage private pickup and regular bulk pickup um we did say originally there was going to be stored internal with regard to the veterans homes now there's testimony that we're going to create a dumpster with screening the satisfaction of the board planner which will be accomplished by way of removal of two parking spaces again that's specifically with regard to the veterans still be private garbage and recycling pickup for the town homes that will be organized by the developer as necessary um well it's private for everybody anything this yeah I mean [Music] um and it will be compliant with any borrow ordinances with regard to timing such as when you can put the trash cans out and they have to be brought back in um the applicant will revise the site plan to show the AC condensers and screening location screen to the satisfaction again of the board planner same thing with regard to dumpster the ex of the veterans homes will comply and match will comply with um and complement those of the town houses that's specifically section 8.2 and 8.3 of the board planners report comp compliance with all rsis Improvement standards again with the exceptions of the ones that we indicated before the applicant will ensure that the buau vacates any portions of Sangle Road as necessary except so they are the same work vac uh the applicant will work with the burrow to vac I think that's it along with our standard conditions any outside other yeah remember two agency have apply to Soil Conservation District and County uh yeah our standard any all right so any I would recommend that any motion contained by the board incorporation and any others that the board anybody on the [Music] V any motion I'll move it oh that's thank you Jim can I have a second Jim I have a [Music] second I'll second thank you all right so the motion is to accept theary and final approval all the Varan deviations outlined in the and subdivision forward I is so um I can we take the roll call on that face yes that motion Mr Hill yes Mr Dasha yes mayor Carol yes councilwoman visaro yes Mr Campion yes Miss giin yes Miss Whitman yes Miss swingle yes Mr show yes they don't even want to hear yeah right Merry Christmas everyone thank you everyone taking process we appreciate working hard good oh yeah we can talk to you about what your question all right share items um our next meeting in January July January 14 2025 will be the re meeting um say it's been a pleasure working with everybody this year who comes back next year we that so I mean it was the plan um and and I don't know how Bill did this um usually their own but we hire maybe correct and it was just some confusion because they had um the burrow engineer the and the and the planning board sep but the traffic was listed only once and the planner was only so I think the rfps that came in are going to be read for both okay and all of the attorneys yeah yeah okay I think there was I don't think there's any issue I know answer all right um we have 25 meeting dates that I said it today with the difference with the primary election yeah just we'll discuss this at the RoR but here's what to think about um at the we discuss the we'll do this at the RoR but here's what we want to consider think about this um the June 10th and the May 27th meetings are a problem um the primary has been moved to June 10th which would be our day possibly possibly we don't know yet th here's the propos we talking about this earlier Al and I and whether to move to like week one which then is a problem for week one of June a problem to a Jewish holiday I understand so I'm gonna throw out there to consider it's it's minor major minor but it's I was thinking is changing the primary that's why they're moving the primary right so our question to think about when we agree on this do we move to June 3 or do we move to a Wednesday the weekly set care about the Wednesday HBC but I I do that first WN HPC they I'm just I'm just throwing out there that we have to do some discussion on this on and work it out but hopefully we'll have better answers on the primary and what I can do is the meeting dates for the HBC and the environment and the shade tree commission they to me so the question is June to move it to whether we move it to Wednesday the thir or move it to it 17th and the 24th I would say if you moved it okay as as the as the is the rabbi on the board for the if you moved it to June 3 the the the it is the second day of a two-day holiday for some who are Orthodox and observant that ends its Sundown on Tuesday so theoretically the holiday would end at around like nine o'clock because it's June and the sun goes down later um so it's not the same as it's not the same as like a Russia sh holiday it's the end of the holiday so so that's a feasibility it's not it's not perfect but I don't think it's it's not I don't I don't know only problem with the 17 is problem we had you got meeting two and what we could do is because there's a a problem with the May 27th as well if you did the early you know the second early May meeting eliminate um the second May meeting and then do the third the third and then then you kind of space them out a little bit if that's saying eliminate the May the Memorial Day um Memorial Day Council end council is Gonna Bump um planning board know it's not going to like well it's not something we have to agree to consider discuss to it before of the time um so I want to go minut at in the morning um all right so let's leave that for now and item 15 bills did I yes item 16 do we have executive session no excellent itk happy holidays to you all yes everybody to and see you next year maybe on the situations right