we might want to move the meeting is called to order puru to the provisions of the open public meetings act both adequate and electronic notice of this meeting has been provided by way publication in the Hun County Democrat and a newspaper on or about oh no no this is the special was the special if that was on um it was in The Courier news on January 21st provided by way of publication in The Courier News honor about January 21st 2024 in addition notice the meeting was posted on the door of the bu of fing Municipal Building located at 38 Park Avenue many handicapped acceptable entrances there too posted on the municipal website provided to the Municipal Park and distributed to all persons with any requesting copies of same meeting is being recorded with both audio and video and may be rebroadcast this meeting is a Judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to the issues that are relevant with the board May legally consider and reaching a decision the form appropriate to a Judicial hearing must be maintained at all times so first why don't we do Oaks of office and then we can do a roll call uh we have a number of O of office tonight uh mayor C Mr Campion Mr Saro Mr Sino M swingle Mario mar Mr eeko and Mr show you can all raise your right hand I will support the Constitution of the United States Constitution of United States constition of the state of New Jersey state New Jersey I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same faith and allegiance to the same governments established in the United States States state state under the authority of the people of people faithfully and for and justly perform all the duties of the office of planning board member member all right so if you could sign the oats that are in front of you I have three of them One Nation God indivisible mayor Carol here Council pres Mr C here here here M Mr Hill mman here Mr Sino M swingle here Mr Mario here Mr eeko is excused Mr show here M kazinski here Mr clo here M mcmanis here Mr K here thank you okay next we're going to do nominations for chair um we need a nomination in a second and then the individual that's nominated can indicate whether or not they accept the nomination uh and then we move on to any additional nominations and then we will do votes from there so I need a nomination for chair I nominate Karen accept nomination any other nominations roll call Mayor Carol yeah Mr yes council person perero yes Mr Camp yes yes Mr cook yes Miss Giffin yes Mr Hill yes Miss Whitman yes mistress he is he from this point from this point thank you everybody um this bit of a baptism of fire meeting so I need everybody's help to move along um the next item on the agenda is nomination for vice chair nominations mayor Carol yes Mr Sino yes council person foro yes Mr campan yes yes Mr cook yes Miss giin yes Mr Hill yes Miss Whitman yes very good thank you moving on to chair remarks um I do want to say a few things but we have a very very busy meeting so I don't want to say too much um first of all I want to say thank you for everybody fa me I'll try and do my best with all your help um the most important thank you is to um Jeff for his work as chair the last few years much appreciate taking a lot of things away from the way you um the only thing I do want to say is that um I I see this I see this position as a a role of service not as a leadership position service um and which I intend to serve by communicating be my watch to all of you make sure we can improve communication um to the public I'll be looking to you on some things on how we can improve communication within the remate of m um but also mainly um to everybody member of the board I'm only a relatively recent member of this board and and I do remember the day when I first started and had scary it and we we are very lucky on this board to have a very wide range of um people and professions and experiences and interests from the town and I know it can be intimidating sometimes when new people see people here a long time or they feel that those people are near an experienc plan an experience it can be very intimidating to actually feel that you're place on the board um I want to say every single person on this board has been put on his board for a reason we have a job to do to to do the job we have to do the planning on the well but also we have um I've always thought of this role as a responsibility to the public I'm representing the public where up here I always try to consider what the public would want me to do especially unlike today usually there's absolutely no here and and I I try to think if people really were here or were on Zoom what would they be thinking about what we're discussing and try and speak for them as much as anybody but the main thing I want every on this board to do is our decisions are made richer when everybody takes part in the discussion even if you're feel that you don't your points don't have Merit they do they usually trigger somebody else to think about something so I encourage everybody for every thing discussion we have application we have speak that and if you're scar if you're nervous to speak up here reach out to somebody ahead of town we have regulations obviously power can help put us right on those um but feel free to make sure that you understand things before you make your vote your vote is very important and I want to make sure everybody feels comfortable to raise questions and do so um that's all I'm going to S um I just feel that's really important right joh so having said that we'll move on to number five man thank you chair um I just want to ask Echo you and thank Jeff uh for serving his chair um did an excellent job I want to welcome Council woman forar to the planning board to have you here and uh our new alternate number one Melissa swingle as well welcome to the planning board um looking forward to serving with you uh and everybody else who was reappointed congratulations um I really have enjoyed serving with all of you and I think that M uh you've all brought something to the table and um I think that our planning board now looks a little bit more like lington and um More Level and balanced and it's got a lot of differing backgrounds and opinions and I think that's really healthy um I do want to give a very brief update on where Liberty Village's application is um as everybody knows we had a Public Presentation by the redeveloper in December uh at this point there are um a bunch of documents that are required by law that are in the works um the plan Amendment which is being drafted by our planner Beth Manis who's also the municipal planner is uh I believe in its very latest last draft form and is being circulated now among the Redevelopment committee which comprises myself uh council president Jer law and councilman Tony Parker and by the end of the week I believe it will be in the hands of the entire Council to review uh at that point it will go to the redeveloper for his last review he has had an early review on it the second document is the plan Amendment which is the contract uh that is also in his last draft form uh it is also in the hands of the council president and the councilman and myself uh we have until tomorrow uh to finish reviewing it at which point it will be automatically sent to the rest of council to review it um before then making its way to the developer the redeveloper attorney to take another look uh he also had at least one possibly two looks at it in different stages um the ordinance to introduce the plan has been completed um and is waiting for introduction which will happen I'll get to that in a second when we get to the pilot the resolution to accept the plan Amendment which is the contract is drafted and also waiting um the ordinance to introduce the payment of L taxes the financial aspect of the project is drafted and finished and what is still being worked on is the pilot agreement um there is a town home component there is a veterans disabled veterans component there is a retail component each of those will be Standalone um agreements and ordinances for introduction um the town home agreement I believe the redeveloper has agreed to and the bureau has agreed to the terms I believe that the other two components are still being negotiated by our respective Financial teams um we are hoping that this is going to be finalized uh and brought to the council either in a special meeting hopefully maybe our next meeting if we can get through the pilot um so that the pilot ordinance and the plan ordinance can be introduced at the same time resolution to bring that to the planning board is also done so that will be done at the same time so we anticipate that the plan planning board will hopefully get this package um for review at sometime in the beginning of February or sometime in February is Our Hope and then the planning board does have 45 days to review it at which time whenever it comes back to the council the two ordinances will be publicly heard with public hearings and the resolution on the amendment slash the contract also be um voted upon so um nothing has really changed from the Public Presentation uh everything that was discussed is pretty much exactly where it was we're just ask the see of how much money per unit the bureau U will be receiving instead of taxes so um I'm actually happy chair if anybody has a question from the planning board uh on any of that for either Beth or myself to take a minute and answer them have my only question is because we haven't had an area need of Redevelopment in quite some time when this goes back to the planning board um we are charged with looking at everything as it compares to our master plan not necessarily our opinion it is how it compares to our master plan and for those new members there is a a right on the website um there's a packet of things that govern how we make our decisions again not our opinion does it match our master plan an area need to Redevelopment does not have to match our master plan but it must match the Redevelopment plan so when mayor was talking about the plan Amendment and the plan being introduced P Board that becomes our new doctrine when we get that plan correct coming your question when we get that plan we read that plan if the site plan matches that Redevelopment plan whether we like it don't like it to have other opinions we can talk and discuss but we're charged with does the plan match what council wants at the site plan the yeah so so the B will presumably adopt the Redevelopment plan as well as Redevelopment agreement you will see a site plan application that application will include all the documents that you would expect to see site plans as well as uh supporting documents for what manuals Etc and the board's responsibility is to review that site plan like you would any other development application but in this case you have a site specific Redevelopment plan a site specific zoning ordinance essentially that you'll be revie the site plan against so it's much more significant detail uh then you might have with a a generic zoning ordinance that's intended to cover hundreds of lots in the B and is is it also the case in when the development plan is being decided by Council this plan involv members take part in that as members of the public at the council is that correct we can raise objections but not rais them as a member of the planning board but as CI as residents were allowed to do that yes and then also just to just to be clear as part of the adoption process the Redevelopment plan will also come to the planning board for your master plan consistency review just like any other Zing ordinance will so you'll have an opportunity to one you're required to determine whether or not it's consistent or inconsistent with the master plan and two the plan board has an opportunity to provide any other comments it would like to provide for the government and for new Amendment like although Todd said um the documents are available on on our website um but reur at meetings not sure that's what that gives us a really good run for what what we should look at what think we should really focus on on and also not that you shouldn't read them but you know that helps it is it is my goal that as each of these documents is finalized and agreed upon they are going to be loaded on the for our website uh for the public to read and see well before any public hearing uh or before any vote I'm hoping for five to seven days on each of these documents minimum um or the public do really have a chance to read them the agreement is about 56 pages long the plan is about 16 pages long the financials are usually longest I don't have a clue because I haven't seen a draft um so I just uh everybody know that before they even get to the planning board they're be on that um oh sorry I just said one more thing before I'm done with report so if you're still on you're on the I had one question may um I just want to make sure I heard you correctly and you can't talk about some of these details because they haven't been they're not public I understand but that there are separate Pilots being negotiated for each aspect of the project and what has there been any determination as to how long those pilot periers are going to be for and that second question you may not be able to answer yet um I I can't answer the exact number but I can tell you we are not um we are trying to avoid a 30-year pilot and make it a shorter time period um so I will I can say that publicly that that is uh definitely our goal is less than 30 years um me and theel project is a 30-year pilot we are trying to minimize that um and they are they are three distinctly different [Music] um Parts I think I said I think I spoke in I think I said Co housing the co the low-income housing is so so there's a retail component which is the BR Foundry building that's also got its own number um the V there's veterans disabled veterans home um that's subsidized housing that's also got its own pilot number and the town houses the town houses the market rate um for sale units are all that's I think we're at a final number on that it's the um the way that the redeveloper is looking at U one two and three bedroom found houses as if they were all the same and we object to that so the only Reas ask a question is I think you're you're hting at it also is is the long pilots on residential projects that are going to be owned it takes them off the tax roll for a stretch of time that's that that's just a it sounds like we're thinking this we are thinking the same thank you that was I just have one more quick question do you happen it's the plan the plan meeting the site plant from developer as to go to council first for consistency before it comes to the board or has that aspect that not been decid yet no I only that is it's okay I mean I can so I don't want yep that's fine I'm just gonna try to think timeable watch the only other thing I just wanted to note um to the planning board is that Melissa swingle is serving on the environmental commission um so she will be the envir she is the Environmental commission member to okay item six I'm I'm very happy to be here I'm very happy to serve the public and I hope I I come don't have an engineering background or planning background but I am a Regulatory Compliance person and so I'm used to getting very much into the weeds and the details and very thick regulation books and to some degree I can tell you exactly where you need to go to how much tariff we're going to pay when it's coming VI Australia to Australia or to Austria and then to the US so I'm at that level of detail so I'm very excited I have done a lot of extensive readings the past few weeks just trying to C catch up to people been on this board for a while um and I'm very excited probably all do is read right now all I can do is read and got sworn in so I'm very excited well thank you um item seven HC comments oh right yes so we had a meeting last week um three things first we approved nine Church the uh new fun for um also uh we submitted the recommendation for the historic district update I know I sent both of those out to the Depo board last week and then just to let everyone know we are playing another historic house tour this year last year was really successful and it's scheduled for Saturday June 1st so we're definitely looking for volunteers especially dosens and greeters so if anyone's interested um contact either me or HBC email this email sounds great I encourage everyone to do that it so um we look forward to that um the second one you mentioned with the report that was sent what's that timeline on that now um thatc we need to put on report was one to us some comments rised we you're ready for us to take a look at it okay um professional reports I don't have any nothing specific I don't want to take too long because I know we do the agenda but there are a couple things that I think both there are just a couple it just let of people at home here thank you um just a couple things folks might want to watch for uh really in news uh one there's an portable housing Bill moving through the legislature there's actually hearings planned for tomorrow and that would uh really Memorial memorialize the fact that Kaa is the Council on affordable housing is a non-functioning agency and really formally turn things over to Superior report in a modified version of what has been going on since 2015 and it would really solidify cour process as opposed to a state agency process the bill is probably 100 pages long so that is a very short summary but that's the that's the top level uh purpose of it to put that process permanently back in the fors the other thing that's happening is the state plan is finally getting revamped supposedly uh there's a process at the uh at the state right now to update the state plan uh as that process proceeds I'm sure I will have more information and that process will come to the municip alties and the cross acceptance process ultimately so no specific action necessary but just know that this ising and assuming it proceeds there'll be more information to come and perhaps input being requested from allp do any of those changes to the co one especially does that change anything that's in our books now or will it be it will change we're thinking about now I don't think it changes what we need to do right now but right now we're in what's referred to as the third round in the sense that every 10 years municipalities get an affordable housing obligation and they're uh they're asked how are you going to satisfy it our fourth round starts in 2025 regardless you know regardless of whether this bill is adopted and so if this bill is adopted it will change the way that we interact with the courts and to so there's nothing for us to do right now the bro's in great shape in that regard so I would say our task at the moment is to find out ifil to die and then if so I will certainly talk to you about how it affects spor and what actually what might be different does anybody have any questions to back on that I don't have any questions I just think it's disgraceful that the legisl needed their responsibility really disgraceful thank okay um sorry I Rob um just like the B um as with other municipality stor water regulations they were adopted by the state of last July if I'm not mistaken uh we have a year to do that so we're going have to do it before this year uh most of the applications we oh most of the applications we've been reviewing we're reviewing those of the new regulations because they're residential and if all the residential site Improvement standards so we're already reviewing those by default under the statutory U provisions of the state residential site Improvement standards um I'm not sure if I would be the one to be the Genesis of this but there's basically a model ordinance the state has uh the current burrow ordinances followed is based on the prior versions of the state model ordinance so unless there's going to be some decision Mak policy change I think we already adopted the state ordinance um I think we adopted so many storm updates in the last year um named uh he's working with my Champion as STM water coordinator um there's a whole host of stuff I know and and it's I I gave a report of council last night about about stressing meeting that was on Thursday with r Township DP they're hired Consultants by Camp in myself Terry vote from Remington bernick and staff in Township um about the implications of these storm waterer rules and how they're going to impact all the residents and how you know this is um Again State has has a law in the books you know familiarly known as state mandates they pay legislature passes a law it's going to cost municipality money they have to put money in the bill way the state gets around it is they have regulations done by agencies DP wrote rules and now the state doesn't have to pay so the DPS you know their song is form a utility formal utility is storm water utility so you can pay for everything and you can tax your residents that way and you know as I said to them you know tax the taxes Jax you can call whatever you want it's still costing us money that we don't have um so it was I think I won't catch it the Hostile conversation with the D and their consultant but it wasn't friendly um you know I've already complained to our legislators about this and um they were completely in the dark that these regs been pass so that's also like crazy I mean what what New Jersey is doing because they're doing it um without the consideration of where governments where people like with inflation how the average taxpayer is going to pay for all this that's coming down with this so well this what I'm referring to is would be the land use element that which will I'm not sure those ordinances they start at at the council level and they go and they go to the governing body and back it is it's an amendment to our land you sort so right but for new projects bu be designed with the new laws in place but we have a lot of old properties in Flemington where the in coverus coverage is like if you look at some of the old Department complexes they're almost 100% of perious coverage and that's how the state's looking at you know a lot of this for businesses I mean you know the business is on Main Street there's no there's no planted Gardens and you know so it's there's a lot of bad stuff coming down from this and I am not a climate denier and I certainly am not a storm denier with what's happened in Flemington over the last few years I mean I personally had flooding in my house uh three times since herc Ida and there hasn't been in my house since I was 10 years old so like I don't deny any of this but it's the state has really has a responsibility for helping us out financially and that is not happening and make that more clear to the public they are not going to or anybody [Music] else um okay oh for me one quick thing I want to say if you could give us a list of all the variances that were granted last year to take a look at it I'm still working on so on the board I will give us a list of all the variances that were granted last year the board will then be charged with taking a look at it and seeing if there's any thing that seems to keep coming up so for example if you keep granting a front yard setback variance a particular Zone then maybe you might want to recommend the council that they take a look at the setbacks in that zone and and that's what we do manually we'll put that together okay item nine is public comment this is for listen this is the item is not currently on the agenda so this is um I'm not quite sure we have this personally but I'm not quite sure what else anybody want to say but it's required by a thank you Jack um nobody have a comment but if anybody does this is a time to do so can see well thank you for continuing it today I appreciate that um okay so seeing none got nothing online nothing in here we'll move on right we're getting to some serious things like resolution resolution 20241 open public meetings act motion second to adopt the list of public meetings for 2024 into reor so move cup everybody understand what this is it's just the good um Mr cook yes mayor Carol yes councilwoman visaro yes Mr Campion yes yes Miss GI yes Mr Hill yes Miss whitesman yes Mr Sam yes thank you thank you all right item 11 resolution 20242 appointments for Professional Services where are we on this exactly we um we didn't do an RFP I do have a resolution give me one second um our resolutions um reads uh Cara kazinski Esquire n y k l LLC as the board's attorney Robert clarico PE of vanlee Engineering Associates as the ports engineer Elizabeth mcmanis PP andle D plus of other letters I'm sure um kle mcmanis Associates as the board's planner uh Jay Troutman PE of McDonna and Ray Associates Inc as the board's traffic engineer and John hatch um a a PP I'm not sure all of his letters either um clarkon and hint as a historic architect for the HPC okay I'll move that post secretary okay discuss mayor um sorry excuse me Mr cook yes Mr Hill yes mayor Carol yes councilwoman B yes Mr Campion yes Miss giin yes is whitesman yes thank you um item 12 resolution 20243 board secretary the same thing wonderful secretary that is fors don't we have any discussion necessar I overwhelming um Council woman farar yes thank you mayor Carol yes Mr Campion yes Miss giin yes Mr Hill Miss whitesman yes yes thank you very much you all right item 13 is approval of the minutes for December 12 2023 these were circulated to all board members and does anybody have any comments on them any I think that's actually the 19th it's correct on the minutes it straight from here oh that's fine our first correction I'll it I'll second it second you actually you wer mayor Cara yes Mr Hill yes um question for you car um M um would obain right council person Council woman Mr Camp yes Mr Miss yes Miss Whitman yes than all right move on to some business business item 14 resolution 20244 this is Wellness LLC block 44 7 okay the board yeah the board might recall that we uh adjourned this from and carried it from the last meeting the applicants attorney had asked that we do that since then I've spoken with the applicant attorney um we may be appearing before this board to ask for some Amendments have some questions with PR to certain items um but all he's asked for at this point point in time is that the resolution be carried to the next meeting of board um and then I'll let you know what the ask a applicant on the attendees as bless Wellness um but I don't see any hand being raised to be Spen anyone in the audience or online has anything they'd like to say to the board with regard to this please raise your hand we [Music] um okay all right item 15 is completeness Group LLC 28 get you under the attending panel where it says applicant hit the three dots promot the panels which that means that that and then join as the panelist they need to turn on their Tam click yes and turn on the camera don't touch the audio because the microphone will take care of that see pop up there turn the camera on evening Madam chair members of the board Steven Gruenberg on behalf of the applicant Golden Heart Group Home LLC this is our application for a D1 use variance relev to allow a daytime Community inclusion program um for providing educational vocational activities um such as group therapy social skills training volunteer work and the like for developmentally delayed adults um this is actually a really good thing for Clemington burrow and for uh the public in order to be able to give this special group of people um training and uh um assistance uh for this type of program um it technically requires a use variant because we're in the transition commercial Zone um but it's actually taking a space that used to be the trino Trinity and fario law office and and moving into that space in an existing building um this is our use variance application and I've done this before with this board because you don't have a checklist with respect to use variance applications so tonight we're here for completeness um we've submitted our application with supporting documentation and under the municipal land use law in order to hold an applicant to feet to fire with respect to completeness items you have to have the checklist um so we feel that we've supplied you with the information that's required um we're happy to supplement additional information as the public hearing gets scheduled but for tonight we're asking for a public hearing to be scheduled with respect to the issue of site plan um I've had some conversations with M kazinsky with respect to to the site plan issue um we think that your ordinance provides that we're not required to do site plan approval um I will notice for a minor site plan as part of our notice in the use variance application we provided the board with a survey we're not planning on doing any external changes whatsoever because it's an existing office use that we can move right into like any other tenant would would be able to do um there's not going to be a major parking requirement because these people don't drive um there's probably going to be one small van that will take people to the site so there's not going to be any site changes we're really just moving into an existing space we can talk about um information that may be required at the time of the public hearing um but um we don't think that site plan approval is required under your ordinance we can deal with that as we did in another application uh for waiver requests from cheal requirements if that comes to be um but we would ask to be able to move forward on this application and the reason that is that my f um Baris Langan is here I call her Bari um because it's easier but she really needs to move into the space as soon as possible the good thing about this application quite honestly was that when we went to file it the landlord hadn't there had been a deficiency in the payment of taxes and the sewer and the water for a long period of time in order to file this application that all got taken care of so we're good on that we provided a certification that the uh property taxes have been paid which was a big benefit to the buau because it was a substantial amount of money so we're asking to be deem complete tonight and get a public hearing date so we can move forward okay yes so I the report I wrote on December 24th um that essentially outlines a lot of spe just indicated um in in my opinion can speak to this but this also qualifies required to minor site plan St IND Standalone use gu don't have a checklist or discussed that many times in the past about adopting checklist upd or to I stand today do not have a checklist just for the minor Tri planine I'm sorry for the use variant what I suggested we he from administrative standpoint is that the can process as a bated element uh just the use variance alone and then part of the use variance process when you get to the end of it you would either require a site plan and go through we do have a checklist for a site plan so administrative standpoint uh at the use variant can deal with they did offer some I thought would be useful to the board uh just considering the the use variance aspects of the application um for to consider that um whether they thought that would be appropriate or not as part of determination for the use variant but at some point when the applicant files an application for a site plan there would be a checklist process for as we go through the whole element of this at some point the board if this turns out in fact to be that there are no s improvements required and there's nothing comes up as the results of the hearing some point go the board could vote actually wait but under your ordinance it this require so um that's sort of a summary of the my letter of December 24th I don't think I missed anything on that but I basically outline what the application is what the process is I outlin what the information you receive on this part of the application and gather there's some additional stuff that's come in payment of fees or something um so some of this element there might be some additional information and again I outlined on here some things I thought might be useful part of the year like seeing how this site relates to Major I mean it is a use application testimony advise you on what the nature of that might be um but you know at some point in conjunction with that site plan is going to have to be determination of a filing an application for minor site plan and perhaps as a result of the hearing getting inut um on what they're proposing might be a refle moment but very that's the Ence of iote on DEC okay thank you um just for me this is my my thir bated um suggestion for my education can you explain to me the pros and cons of doing it that way the way that Bob suggested so the applicant has the ability to request application beated Bo must accept whatever procedure they looking forward so the applicants indicated that they would like to forward with the use variance aspect we do not have a checklist for that specific type of application um however the board even if you accept the application for the use variances complete can still as any other application request any additional information that you can have as the applicant go forward with their presentation and you hear exactly what it is that's taking place you may or may not require some additional information with regard to the site plan aspect other than survey um may be looking for some other site improvements um Mr grber did indicate that we proceeded previously on application similar to this where we did review it in connection with site plan and weigh a number different things because there really not many improvements made um your ordinance also does not have a site plan W of an um there are exemptions from site plans um there was a uh request that certain exceptions uh be reviewed um I don't think this Falls within it at this point in time there is a mechanism for the administrative officer who is in this case zon officer to make certain determinations with regard to uh items that might allow it to fall into an exception um but at this point um it sounds like the applicate wants to proceed on the use variance aspect and then board again and consider whatever additional site planine issues they may they may need um Mr indicated be will notice for a site plan um and uh then that way it's it's covered at that point in the work M for whatever addition information need site plan then we have a check list go through the whole checklist procedure I'm guessing correct at that point yes yes but again you may or may not need that after you've taken a over the appliation and and in the meantime Mr grber can also go through the exceptions and get whatever additional information from the administrative offic may need to present to the board right we already get from St okay um so from a completeness perspective that we're voting on typically we vote on completeness to say do we have all the necessary documents to to continue and go forward so in this case based on everything I've heard we are voting on a completeness for a use variance application which we really don't have a check for um and reserving the right to as we progress into the application should we need other elements well no should we need we need a site plan because our ordinance requires so we can go through the site plan and say we we but we can't weave with that site unless the exception documentation is presented to the board and accepted that it falls within one of exceptions which we don't know yet which we don't the evening we are charged with voting on um completeness is the application complete and Bob your letter you know you know dictates a completeness as if we are following um a b process I never dictate my suggest given that but and but Bob if I give your letter and um well for example um Fe indicated they're occupying a law office in the building had no idea how many square feet that is I don't know where it is I don't know the access that again that's why I offered some suggestions of information I thought think the board at some point might want hear that can come in the way of the exhibit as part of hearing whatever but basically the application and the documentation that's presented there's really nothing here for me a technical standpoint video I'm sure us standpoint that offer so complete from A administrative perspective it starts the clock from from on on the use yes yeah and there really wouldn't be anything else we could see based on the attorney and the applicant saying listen we believe we're going to come to you and say yeah these elements are not necessary for reasons x y and so what in fact are we deeming you're ex well because you typically the site plan application is De complete but we don't have the use variant that's what he's applying for right now by this quote unquote bated so we do not have a checklist of Standards or our bad so as we sit and discuss the variances that may have been granted last year and making recommendations to council that may something want to put on the list so we're not in this situation going forward um but again despite that the mwl controls in that if there is anything that the board feels it would like to see in connection with reviewing relief you can certainly ask for it the applicant's not obligated to provide it but if they're looking to provide the board with information it would certainly be in interest and just say that we recognize that this is a d variance relief and that you're want to see some additional material by way of exhibits and and we have Mr clerico correspondence um which gives us an idea of the things that he was going to be looking for um we've retained a planner who is going to be providing planning testimony and support of this application and who will be presumably providing the exhibits although I haven't seen them yet which will provide the board with that we feel enough information on this existing site using the existing inside part of the building to give you a comfort feeling that you have enough information to act on this application but what I do get to hang my head on a little bit is that you don't have a checklist to say Mr gber you've got to provide all this this this and this and if you need a waiver you have to ask for a wer you know I'd like to move on in the process for my client sake in order to try and get them hopefully in approval to be able to move into the space as soon as possible and I I certainly appreciate your wish to move forward my concern is that we've had a few applications recently where we've we've deemed them complete and then we've on the assumption that things were going to come forward and then it takes six months for instance for things to come forward and then because then the applicant is constantly having to submit paperwork to us it actually ends up costing them more time and more money and and the whole process become mudded down um I have a question car do we have the opportunity to say we don't wish to move forward as a bated do we do we say it's not complete at this point and we want both things we want a minor plan we don't can't minor we don't they have every opportunity to elect to do a bate application and just for clarity this is a little bit different and you're absolutely right in what you were saying that the board has basically made it a policy that you know we're we want to make sure we have everything in hand before we even complete and not stretch things out for months waiting for documentation but the rub here is we don't have a list of what to check off to it Complete because we don't have in our ordinance just a use variance application we could say in connection with a use variance application from a bated perspective we need the application Pro for payment of taxes owners you know all the standards up and a survey and an internal layout of what portion of the building is going to be occupied and a layout of what parking spaces are going to be utilized that could very well be part of what we incorporate in an ordinance in which case they would have to provide that we don't have that yet so essentially they've provided the bare minimum that our ordinance requires so we can't tell them they get bated and we can't require for completeness purposes more than what they've submitted right again we can once they come here say all right great it's a fabulous use but we need to see XYZ if you want us to make a decision at that point absolutely and again I presented a similar type of application before this board where we presented additional evidence photographs testimony and we didn't wait around 6 months to do that we got that hammered out for two months that's the way so you know we we have a u a desire to move this application forward as soon as possible the rest in order to meet the burdens of a D1 varing experience they're going to have to provide a tremendous amount of testimony on plus and minus Side Of The Ledger I'm fine they've met their stat for requirement I'm fine moving forward they're going to have a they're going to have to meet the burden of a D1 variance in the public testimony anyway which is not insubstantial and Mr knows this and so I'm fine moving forward with Bob's letter giving some guid other kinds of testimony just and given the fact that that the applicant will notice so the memb of the public they don't know whether they're listening to a site plan an application something we have something we don't have they're just going to be here listening to all the same things that we're listening to so I agree with with Jeff I'm fine with name the appliation I'm just going to throw out there I think we're an inherently beneficial use to so it's a little bit of a d different D1 but yes fair enough just had to throw that in there no I a second that I don't want to move until we're ready to move yeah I want to ask everybody question before do we back Brian I no I mean it's fair game I we don't as right now we don't have the checklist can't move forward this point anything no I agree it's kind of tough with that a checklist but I do appreciate Bob's um information in his letter and giving us things to reference from too yeah this on our list do for the year as well um Mike I'm good thank youbody then you want to move I'll move move to De complete and I'll second got chair Mr Das yes Mr cook yes Mr Campion abstain yes Mr Hill yes Miss whitesman yes yes we're GNA have to look at time at some point we've got two of we've got two things we've got has indicated they may um are going to notice for the the 13th we have Central Station that possibly will that's February 13th February 13 and I would imagine that would most likely continue I'm imagining so and we have an informal uh review for the 13th as well that's only 15 minutes very Qui February 27th I mean we can say not we have something on we have a tonight I don't know how many is that's going go can can we do this um we notice for February 27th and then if it appears that there's five other applications ahead of us on the agenda or I'm joking but whatever the schedule is uh for February 27th if we need to be continued then we would just make an announcement on the 27th of when we would do that at least gets us into queue for February 27th given what um Mr DHA said about how much evidence you're going to have to be testimony for um the D variant well we have um able testimony by that dat that's not a realistic yeah I mean that's I'm going to reach out talk to my clients right now I'm going to reach out to the planner and we'll we'll talk about what additional things might need to be done for if I can just get into que for the 27th I think that'll help us you never know what could [Music] happen agenda I mean you know Central Station is going to be on the 13th and I know I'm noticing for that and got stuff to finish out you know what we've got but we'll maintain communication recognize our obligations to get this absolutely appreciate that so the board's authorizing the applicant to publish for February 27th and thank you thank you everyone that's hour right item 16 hearing LLC 11 12 and 15 oh do we need to um the board members Contin yeah so before we proceed I'm going to just put this on the record um right before the meeting I believe we received a letter that the umor has conditionally withdrawn objection is correct which is language that we were discussing earlier um my conflict as I stated on the record of a prior hearing is that my partner is lives within the development to the south in Ran Township and as a member of the HOA I was going to refuse if there was an objetive representing entire to the HOA um but she is not with she of the application that all being said because of this very peculiar language of a conditional withdrawal of the objection subject to some very specific things I don't think it's in anyone's interest that some that I continue to sit for this one and things get thrown out on a technicality of a conflict given the people of suit with this board on conflicts in the past I don't want to be the cause of anything so um I will continue to recuse um from this application I'll ask the chairperson um since this is the last substantive item on the agenda do you meet me for 17 18 19 on the agenda can I [Music] go she can move over here she I will see you next [Music] seat yeah um don't ask me to work this asking me to work right now all yes the um 200 list in the mailing received and I assume that you the content okay so if I remember rightly the floor to good evening and chairman mayor and members of the board professionals my name is John Lanza uh Robin Wright from my office and I will be representing the rville road Properties LLC this evening and more than likely at the next meeting on this application uh it's for Lots 11 12 and 15 on block 45 in the burrow of plumton which was property near the car wash on L 12 uh it's a property that is essentially surrended by residential uses and the little part of the property is also in the Flemington which has a number large time committing Association which had previously ejected to our storm water management plan but due to the good work of our engineer and collaboration with the engineer for the association that came to an agreement on the storm water plan and they have officially as of January 23rd withdrawn their objection certainly subject to the the claim that we have submitted and they have approved subject to the approval of this SPS professionals and Soil Conservation uh it's for 18 town houses on this lot this lot is like uh in the center of the residential donut there are a few uh commcial uses that surround the property but primarily it's a residential area and this we're in this in the center of it uh our plans were submitted and deemed complete uh the property was in a mixed use multif family overlay District which permitted multif family homes on these Lots uh as a result that uh ordinance applies to this application not the present ordance that was amended uh the applicant seeks preliminary site plan approval and subdivision for the development of the 18 tow houses see variance for lot depth where 100 ft is required the lots are less than 100 ft in depth height and location of retaining walls that's subject to a c variance the lack of rear alley access and the residential buffer where 25 ft is required and less than 25 ft is provided it is the it is the Contour or the situation of property that causes some of these variances the narrowness the topography and the Ingress and ESS so these are the things that we are proposing in this application we've already discussed the withraw of the objection by the condo association um the witnesses that we plan to submit uh tonight would be Chad Barberry he is a principal and will be representing the wvi road properties on this application our engineer Eric rarin he will be testifying tonight I presume that his testimonial is rather lengthy your engineer has been his usual very detailed review of this application and given us a 20page report to address which will be addressed our architect g blacken Bush will test but not deceiving he's ill and uh so he will not be with this deceiving I don't believe that we will be getting to that testimony anyway and our planner is Mark resma he's here to listen to the testimony we don't believe that he will be able to time will not permit him to testify this evening with that brief introduction I'd like to call my first witness was be Chad barbar to testify and give a general outline of his background this compan and property in general M I quickly if you don't mind just the application and the supporting documentation as A1 will'll Mark the notice and approve of publication as A2 and let's mark the review letters uh pb1 will be uh Mr September 4 2023 letter it's label technical report number one pb2 will be Mr scan's uh letter dated September 12 20233 will be M MC's letter dated January 16 20244 Mr clar technical report number two dated January 17 2024 and I have an undated uh comment and recommendations memo let's call it from The Bu of environmental commission and that'll be pv5 we have do we have something from the five service Then They carried it over into this one may this is June 23rd 2023 I think they sent one recently that say basically that one stands or something so that would be the DAT I will I'll make sure looks like also have one from the HBC as well I'll it's outside originally had one on June 10th right then an updated one on June 23r 23 233 maybe I think it I'll take a look I'll put that on the record the next yeah just want to make sure that's in the rec sure thank you um swearing in we SAR both yes yeah yeah here and then that way we'll have it on the record and they'll continue to be on Ro uh do you TR a testimony back to give this board the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do yes and if you could all just state your name so we have on the record who was sworn in today Eric wner Mark Rema Mark spell your last name r e Ms a Chad Barbarian b a r b i r i okay great thank you thank you chair Mr can you state your name please sir Chad Barbary and Sir where do you resign to Orchard Road lingos New Jersey and how long have you live there before um GRE up in wardsville on wardsville Road in New Jersey and so are you married or single married whom are you married Jamie barier you have any children two little girls and uh what is your educational B bachelor's degree from Lo College High School for high school what uh is what do you do for work I work for a company called metronic I sell medical devices to hospital positions and as part of your services you explain these people have to operate these Dev license yes we act as a consultant but also you know as a partner providing outcomes for patients and can you describe for the uh the board the wardsville road Properties LLC yeah so wardsville Road properties was started by uh myself and my partner Steve zck he's sitting behind me in the flannel um Steve was my neighbor growing up he was a farmer and still is To This Day farms around 5 to 600 acres in summer 700 um we decided to start the LLC when we presented a unique opportunity to buy land in the bur and how long have you only partner um since I was 5 years old so 32 years he was your neighbor yeah he's my neighbor across street did you work on this Farm I did yeah I did a lot of hay with Ste years and buil a pretty strong fure uh your company have you developed any other properties in Hunan Somerset County the of the visites no this is our first property and when did you purchase this property 2015 and you describe genely where the property is yeah it's uh south of luk2 in burrow um as noted earlier it's pretty much landlocked around residential um in a great area for the town in my opinion which was a big attraction for me see yeah uh can you describe the approximate size of the property yeah it's .3 acres per se but it's a flag lot in that unique aspect it um has a small house single family home on the front lot the rear lot is multi-use commercial it was an old bottling plant that we've converted into a commercial space um that a construction company rents and then the rest is vacant almost an entire area acre of the land is vacant what structures currently exist on the um single family home and a more to use commercial building will this application affect those structures yes and how will they'll be removed can you describe generally what you intend to do or what you asking this board to do with this application we're asking the board to Grant approval for this application um along along the lines of how this unique piece of land sits within being not only a flag lock but landlocked by residential it's difficult to see any other real use for this property um aesthetically it makes sense to me and my partner but more importantly I think the surrounding areas especially to the South when you look at the condos the condos at township um there's a lot of residents in a small area um and this is type of the project that we feel is is is appropriate for that same vacant space that we have are you aware of obligation to provide affordable housing in this development yes and how do you intend to do that we we have intend to abide by the Burrow's wishes and we will um obligation for you intend to establish Homeowners Association for the town housing yes so the uh we we absolutely plan on establishing an HOA for the homes on that HOA will have responsibilities that basically abide to everything outside the four walls of the units so um drainage basins buffer areas private roads Landscaping parking enforcements exterior areas as Lawns and sidewalks the HOA will be responsible for all of that were you you were aware that the where is the condo association that South made village Condominium Association where is that that condominium complex in relation to your property it sits in the South area of the property it's in the re area of the property there a small tree buffer area that's between the condos and our property um and they're in in essence they're our neighbors from another subject to well before this application during your ownership had you had you had any issues with the the condo association no no we've been uh there for close to seven or eight years and um it's all been very cordial and they've been great neighbors and we realize that you know this project is going to have an impact on them which is why we proactively have met with them um during our application and before our application to try and address any concerns that think given that the project is so close in deis to their property do you recall Mr Clo's report regarding East rights for L 13 laboring your property I do yes and uh how did you how did we respond to his concerns attempt to respond to his concerns from my understanding there was a question in terms of the easement for the entrance of the driveway um since me and Steve have purchased the property we've only used that driveway um is adjacent to our building on the west side and we've never used any other driveway to enter the property and that driveway is the primary in and out for both the residents that are there today is this also the method of Ingress and ESS fore development yes you obain the services as your professional [Music] engineer he's prepared yes he will your particularities describe the project and address the issues ofes right that's all I have of this job okay the way we usually do these things for the public is we professionals if there have any question questions for this so I sh my question question any members of the board have any questions no okay see we don't have any questions and car's keeping on straight um anybody in the room have any questions the way this goes is this is turn for questions not comments so what you're doing here is you're questioning this witness okay I do can you come forward the mic come yeah it's name and address my name is Linda Lane I live on rout 12 the property is right next to the back of my yard it's there um I just want to ask them are they aware there's a big water problem there and um I mean I was reading where they're going to put up the the walls the retaining walls for 2.3 Acres you're going to have three retaining walls I mean how how much do you think that's going to take up your property so I'll refer to the engineering we I think see there I just um when my kids were younger we been there almost 40 years if I may miss l i I don't mean to cut you off there's just a certain procedure we need to follow this is questions of this witness the public will have the opportunity to ask questions of every witness and then once they're done you can come up and you can talk about anything like opinion positive negative anything you like fine I just wanted to make aware of the water problem thank you you your time my associate just my stuff up to [Music] do you have that available it's part of the submission the PDF we're sent in okay all [Music] right on so this was not submitted in connection with the application no it's okay so then we can just identify it by way of uh what the name of it is you don't to identify it separately if you feel you want to you may want to we don't it's part and parel of exhibit one okay keep here I don't knowon try get it at we block out some people doesn't usually where online could you maybe do like a bur white and show the people in the room what it is before it's photographs if you had a chance to look at the plans were submitted to the board it's the same thing the it's the yes thank Eric L as our engineering expert Eric can you describe your uh back ground as an engineering expert certainly I'm a licensed professional engineer in the states of New Jersey and Pennsylvania I've received a bachelor's degree from Villanova University in 1997 and a mastered from the same in 2001 uh since graduating in 1997 I've been practicing civil engineering primarily in residential and Commercial Land Development throughout New Jersey I've been in front of this board numerous times saying Township um other places in hun County Merc County summerson county middle sex counties and so forth speciic anybody qualify candidate as expert well let's see what do we ask to civil engineering expert civil engineering expert can you um can you describe the site plan that you prepared certainly um so the site plan that we've prepared is for construction of 18 New Town Homes um and a private road with access to rout 12 the plan that I have mounted behind me this is the color aerial photograph that's located within the plant set that was submitted to the board and the primary purpose of this exhibit is to just Orient the board relative to where the property is located and also what surrounds the property though the property in question consists of three lots uh lot 11 which is the smallest of the three lots and that's the rectangle that's located closest to rout 12 that property is about 50 ft wide um the second and third lots of the pro Lot 12 and 13 those are located to the South and also to the east of lot 11 those two lots are essentially land the only means of engress eress to those two properties is through lot 11 and the existing driveway that's located on lot 11 lot 11 contains an existing residential dwelling Lot 12 which is the lot directly to the south of lot 11 that property currently contains the existing commercial uh unit that's being used by the Construction Company part of The applicant's Proposal in order to construct this townhouse development requires Demolition and renal of all the exist structors on The Rocker um the probably along both the southerly boundary and partly along that Northerly boundary with the existing residences that fronts an axis Route 12 there are wooded areas basically a large tree line with different size strees that are located along the property boundary part of our proposal will require our proposal will require removal of the majority of the existing wooded area on the property in order to construct the improvements necessary to build this development the aerial photo we don't he's indicated that was part part of the application so I think this one we'll have to mark we will Mark that as A3 and can you give us the title and the date we so this is title site plan and it's sted January 4th 2022 last revised November November 21st 2023 and the layout that's shown this is what's Achi by your office correct um this is the same plan that's within the board set uh the only difference is that it's been colorized just to highlight certain aspects of the pro okay and it's the same as which sheet within the board set it's sheet sheet number five thank you and primarily what this plan shows is what the applicants proposal is um what we're proposing is again construction of a ke new town home access to all of the properties all of the Town Homes will be provided from a new private road that will intersect Route 12 and that new Private Road extends in a souly direction and then as it enters Lots or what is currently Lots 11 through a lot 11 into Lot 12 and ultimately through lot 15 the turn heading us in our easterly Direction our new Private Road we're providing a 50 foot wide rideway as required by rsis additionally what we're showing are how the 18 New Town Homes will be constructed the area to the north of the proposed Road will consist of two buildings each building will have a total of six units each six townhouse units within each building each lot will be 25 ft wide as required by the ordinance for this Zone to the south of the new road will be located one building and again six New Lots for six town homes those lots will also be 25 ft wide the applicants Proposal complies with all of the bul standards in the ordinance the only deviation that we have is the minimum lot debt 100 ft is required in the zone and the applicant's proposal varies but the smallest lot depth that's being proposed is 86.3 feet um essentially that is the lot depth for the majority of the property there's one lot that's conforming to the ordinance which requires 100 foot for the minimum lot depth and we're proposing four Lot 12 proposed Lot 12 that lot will be 118.7 ft in lot that otherwise all of the other ball criteria in the ordinance is met by this proposal under the existing conditions the biggest issue that we've had with this property is Automotive control and presently all of the residential dwellings to in north of this property that runs on Route 12 also the commercial dwellings along L 12 and a couple of the properties areas of the properties that font an access Main Street surface water or storm water run off from this from those properties brings through this site and into the Condominium Association which is located directly to the south of us that presently is the manner in which storm water run flows across this property through this property and then ultimately again into the Condominium Association The applicant's Proposal in order to comply with the residential side Improvement standards for SW Water Management what we are proposing is construction of an underground detention system that detention system will be located within the public roadway there will be no storm waterer improvements on the proposed townhouse Lots other than storm inlets and collector pipes the stormwood detention system is located at approximately the middle of the public road and essentially it's located directly south of the first building which is located to the north of the proposed road that underground detention system consists of storm Chambers um storm Chambers are essentially half pipes um they're made out of plastics and the way they're designed they're generally laid on a bed of stone the chambers were installed they're hollowed Chambers and then it's back filled with stone those chambers designed and rated for traffic loads and all of the storm water runoff from this project including the roof areas will be collected by inlets surface water run off from the yards of the properties from the new homes will also be conveyed into the inlets and into this underground detention system the way this system has been designed all of the storm water that's collected by this system will ultimately discharge to the South which is located at approximately the rear of lot located towards the rare of proposed laot 18 presently all of the storm water from this property the properties to the north and some of the properties to the east of us flows through that point so the proposal maintains the ultimate discharge location for our proposed storm waterer management one of the more complicated aspects of this project is how we deal with the offsite run off the storm water that's flowing from the properties north of us which are the properties along RS wall likewise the properties to the east of us which fronts on Main Street from our Northerly property line to the southerly property line there's approximately 2 ft of elevation chain and in order for us to continue to discharge storm water through this property and to construct the improvements necessary and meet all of the current stroner management regulations it's necessary for the applicant as part of our proposal to raise the elevation of this property and the elevation change varies depending upon where you are in the property but essentially the applicant will will be placing about 4T of fill 3 to 4T of fill depending upon where you are on the property in order to construct the road construct a new driveways construct a new dwellings however when you raise the elevation on site in order to not trap water on any of the adjoining properties and to allow that strong water that's currently flowing through this site to continue to flow through the property we have installed addition storm waterer collector systems and the retaining walls that are being proposed along the Northerly property line and then likewise along the easterly property line absent any drainage pipes any of the storm water that would normally flow through this property would get trapped in those locations what we have done is to maintain that flow through the property additional storm drainage separate from the detention system that's being proposed for this project additional stor drainage is being proposed and will be installed to collect all of the storm water that's flowing towards those retaining walls to collect the storm water and then ultimately convey it through this property down towards the Condominium Association so what the applicant's proposal is by raising the property so that we don't trap any storm water on any of the adjoining properties so that we don't negatively impact any of the off-site properties we're providing and making providing for conveyance collection and conveyance of that storm water so It ultimately ends up where it's currently going so the on-site storm waterer management system design as well as the conveyance system for the offside storm water management system or the offside storm water runoff meets all of the peak rate reductions required by our rsis that is for the two-year storm event the applicant is able to reduce Peak Flow by 50% for the 10year storm the reduction requirement is 25% and then likewise for the 100e storm the reduction requirement is 20% the applicant applicant's design has met all of those performance requirements for storm water control additionally part of what we're proposing within the underground detention system is a groundwater rear system part of the ordinance requirements in rsis is that the applicant has to maintain maintain the existing annual groundwater Rec there's a computation that's been provided in the storm water report that indicates what the existing groundwater recharge volume is that this project this property provides currently with the existing covers that exist taking into account the existing building the existing driveway and the existing wood once the property is improved the trees are going to be removed additional impervious coverage by way of the driveways the dwellings and also the new roadway that has a tendency to reduce storm water infiltration or groundwater recharge the infiltration system that's going to be built as a part of this underground detention system will maintain that annual volume of recharge that currently that's currently being provided by the site so the applicant is compliant with that aspect of the regulations and finally in terms of the storm water management there's a requirement for water quality treatment from any any traffic surface traffic surfaces the public roadway and then likewise the driveway those are the traffic surfaces that are being produced or that are being created by this project and what our proposal is in order to meet the performance requirement which is all of the storm water from traffic servfaces needs to be treated to remove suspended solids NDB has manufactur treatment devices that is independently certified the provide water quality treatment The applicant's Proposal instead of utilizing traditional inlets which essentially just collects storm water directs it into the detention system and then discharges it those are the typical inlets that you would see throughout Town what we're proposing is to utilize stormscape which is a manufactur treatment system and it's basically an inlet and a small bio retention system in one storm water collected by the inlet flows through the bio retention system the media that's used provides the still filtration necessary to meet the 80% total suspended solid removal however in addition to that those stormscape systems utilize vegetation plants are planted Within These inlets so that not only do you get the suspended solids removal but you also get vegetation uptake which treats storm water for other pollutants that cannot be filtered out um any sort of dissolved metals petroleum products some of the plants will remove those so the end product of the storm waterer runup that's discharging from the site it means all of those requirements that the state has established that has been adopted by our science um you you've uh you've met with the um the engineer for the condo association correct yes we have and he's reviewed your thr water plan correct and uh has it me this approval it has um the only the one final product or piece of information that the association's engineer is looking for is soil conservation certification and the plans have been submitted to soil conservation with the report um I was hoping to have something by today from um the district but I think the district is a little busy right now um but I've reviewed in concept the design with the district and I believe everything is acceptable to them hopefully within another week or two we should have the final certification from so a once we have it we'll certainly provide it to the board and then likewise to the association's engineer and so this will be an improvement over existing conditions correct okay um is there anything else got storm water that you want to com on at this time that's essentially the STW designed for the project okay um do we are we complying with the rsis standards this project so the does require a couple of waivers from RSI um primarily it deals with sidewalk and sidewalk installation this type of development requires sidewalks to be constructed along both sides looking at this project we've got essentially all of the homes that are located towards the back of the towards the rear of the property towards the end what the applicants is providing are sidewalks along the frontage of where the homes are and then the sidewalk will extend towards Route 12 to provide basically pedestrian traffic or pedestrian walkways all the way to or TR where they can then continue to walk along the system sidewalks in that area part of why we decided not to provide sidewalks along both sides is a lot of the changes that been that's been happening in terms of strong Water Management one of the thing or one of the aspect that everyone is looking to do is to break up imperious surfaces and also minimize ous surfaces to the greatest extent possible that's why a lot of times we're always looking for ways do we need parking space can we utilize 30 or 40 will that be adequate for the actual proposed needs so typically all of the reg regulations are trying to minimize the amount of imper coverage rsis in their notation and their standard detail for this type of development and this type of roadway they require sidewalks to be provided on both sides essentially if we were to provide sidewalks on both sides it'll comply with rsis but also we're adding a lot of impervious surfaces and really not getting the benefit of it most of the occupants within this development if they're walking within the development they're ideally most people are probably going to walk right across the road if someone is living to the north of the new roadway and they have a friend or someone else on the within the building to the South they're not going to walk all the way around along the sidewalk they're going to walk right across the roadway this is a dead C act it's going to be very limited there's going to be very there's going to be a relatively small amount of traffic on this roadway essentially the only F the only visitors or users of this public roadways will be the occupants whoever owns the property or whoever is res property it is not connected to another roadway where there's going to be a significant amount of traffic so we don't really feel it's necessary to have sidewalks going along the entire poac on both sides of the road all the way out to Route 12 it it's it would comply with ours requirements we certainly do it but we're building again a lot of impervious surfaces which basically produces more stor water and Bon more pollutants there's less groundw recharge it exacerbates an existing problem and it doesn't really create a benefit that you would typically want or you would typically see when you have side point clarification what you're describing is what's on the plans that are before the board or some deviation from the plans that are before the board that's what's on the plans it doesn't document the waiver the r plans that I review that are before the board has sidewalks on both sides of the road yeah it does but not all the way out to Route 12 and then there's a section of sidewalk at the end of the colus act that we do not have Okay so what you're describing on that exhibit is what's on the plan for the board yes um so the sidewalks are sufficient to allow normal pedestrian St for the development of this time correct ACC to Route 12 and various stores andies nearby um Eric in terms of Varian and you said that um lot with the variance for the side um for the loss but we're also seeking a variance for the retaining walls in terms of their height and their location correct correct and can you explain why uh why we're not conforming the ordinance and why we need the retaining wall location in order to develop this property or any property for that matter typically with the way the storm water management rules are written now we have to start with storm order because that drives everything that we generally deal with development this particular property we have to discharge onade because we don't have the ability to conate underground into the econom association into their system so our storm water any storm water dist from this property has to essentially occur the termin elevation that it's just like in addition to that we also have to be able to the stor confine it to a certain detention system and the way detention system works you take a large volume of water you put it into an area and you store it and then you let it go at a much lower rate than what it came into that system so in order to design this system a normal development be a townhouse condominium regular single family subdivisions normally you would have a detention Basin or a buyo retention Basin and generally those basin as most of us I'm sure have seen it's usually a component of parts of it being excavated into the ground and then sometimes there's going to be a small BR and then there's a pipe that discharges the water from that structure in our particular case since we have to discharge on the ground at an inting elevation it's not possible to create a typical storw detention system any excavation automatically puts us below the elevation that we have to discharge so the only way you could actually meet the storm water management rules for this or the regulations for this project is we have to start creating storage above brain once we start creating that storage that's necessary above the ground we then have to be able to get the water into that system because if the water bypasses that system it's impossible to comply or to meet any of the storm water so as we start to create mechanisms to direct storm water where it needs to go it drives it forces us to start installing retaining walls along the property in order to start controlling certain areas so that we can direct the storm water into this system and it's the storm water management rules that have basically driven the need for the retaining WS on this front because we've got to be able to control the runoff from the area that's being developed we have to control the runoff from the roof we have to control the runoff from the road we have to control the runoff from the lawnes and the only only way to direct those water all of those various surface rofs into an area that we can control is to create a detention system and absent any retaining walls on this property it's going to be impossible to control the storm water R from the site we do not have the ability to discharge at a lower elevation hey Eric I just want to briefly go through the other variances before we move on to Mr clarico memo dep um uh there's no rear alley access behind the town home can you explain why that is correct so this particular development the way it's been designed all of the access to the to the individual essentially will be from the public road and the typical rare alley access that can would have if there's another AB budding town home on the other side we don't really have that situation here we've got two Hills to one goild could out each of the units will have a limited am of re U for outdoor activities but the primary means of access to these dwellings will be from the public road that's being proposed and then finally um the residential buffer uh 25 residential buffer that Miss McManus mentioned in her Memo can you explain why That's the basis for the variance for that and what that's not provided so that's 25t buffer is an area that's supposed to be landscaped and scen along the perimeter of the property this property the separate the neighboring properties both to the north east and also to the South what we have done we have provided a limited amount of buffer but again the need to control storm waterer runoff from this property starts to force where we could put certain amenities or certain improvements need to go additionally what we're trying to do is to create some private r yard space for all of the individual units so that the properties are not only a house but you also have some usable outdoor space and given the size of the property the depth of the property we've provided a limited amount of bucking certainly 25 ft we only able to provide the full 25 ft but we've provided a buffer along the entire perimeter of both the building to the north and also the building to the South along the rare property line but again in order to direct to storm water runoff where we needed to go and to try to provide some outdoor space for each of the individual units we're only able to provide the full 25 ft um Eric you're aware that part of the property a small part extends into and Township I don't know if you can show them on the on the a little piece correct correct and you've met with the engineer okay and um uh it your understanding that we has to apply for Relief and to get in clington we'll have to get approval from Ron to of the project yes okay um and while we're on the subject I know in Mr cleric's memo he wanted to know how your surveyor established the municipal boundary line can we discuss that a little bit certainly um so the Deeds for for our property and even the neighboring properties there are certain properties that extends into the township but there's no specific Dimension that from the beginning of the property line you go X number of feet to the burrow line it just gives us a finite Dimension which in some instances extends into the B we have completed survey work on Main Street which is to the east of us on the other side of Main Street and likewise to the west of this particular property um on the other side to the west of the railroad tracks we've also surveyed that property and as part of the survey work that was done for those properties the property to the to the west of the railroad we have old plans that shows approximately where the burrow on the plans for that or the survey for that property and even the Deeds for that property it doesn't give us any finite Dimension as to where the burrow line is it just shows an approximate location of where the burrow line is so what we have done is to essentially merge this survey work with the survey that we've done beyond the limits of this property and then projected through where we believe the bur line is um I'm G to uh start looking at various parts of Mr Claro's letter that I noted that we ought to address um in uh in 1.7 Mr mentions the phase one environmental assessment is that something that we're going to provide yes we will um excuse me wrong that was that was 1.7 yeah 1.7 I think letter and uh 2.1 CL letter I believe Chad testified that the HOA will manage to storm water draft the appropriate manual this will be recorded at the appropriate time delineating D responsibilities that that cor correct okay um uh there's a in in number 2.2.1 of Mr Claro's letter he mentioned e rights on the neighboring property for Ingress and egress and and uh is you're understanding that uh I we're not planning to vacate those rights and you'll add a note regarding the inut to the plans correct correct okay um and you'll also add a note to the plans regarding the bur of Clemington sewer easement you on the yes document okay and your understanding of that is that the burrow has a right to lay sewer Ingress Andress and maintenance rights correct okay um in 2 point 2.3 um Mr clerico uh reviews various issues of this the storm water plan and I think there was a suggestion about us adding a Swale to the property and can you address that so Mr Clos recommended that soils the applicant should construct soils along the base of the retaining wall that would sep that's the is separating the properties the existing properties that front on Route 12 and those are areas to the north of us and then are to the east of us Mr wanted swes designed and constructed um typical swes normally when they're built it's an excavated Channel sometimes they're formed by bming creating BMS on the low side while you excavate or cut in certain aspects this particular property the issue that we run into with this site all of the offside storm water is flown into the property and through the property but there's such a limited relief approximately 2 ft from the north property line to where the storm water leaves the property of the South and then goes into the Condominium Association if we were to start Excavating to create a Swale along the base of the retaining wall there's not enough great change from the north property line to the South where the storm would ultimately has to flow in order to create those traditional SES what we have done in grading the site and building the retaining walls is essentially the strong water is going to flow towards the retaining wall and then ultimately flow along the retaining wall towards the collection points that we provided the two the head wall and then along the north retaining wall and then the flare Den section along the easterly retaining wall storm water will flow along the walls and along the base of the wall and then ultimately get picked up and collected by those pipes and then discharged into the OR through the property towards the association point of clarification the water you're talking about flowing along the walls is Flowing on your property or on the na property on our property is Flowing on your property yes including the wall on the east side of the property yes I'm just suggesting for so one option that we have um talk about with the applicant is to minimize any potential of having ponding water or essentially water sitting in that area because the area is very irregular it's not very Steep and again constructing a typical conveyance a typical grass channel the property does not have enough relief which would allow us to do that what we're proposing to do is along the base of the retaining wall essentially is to construct an infil trench I've used it in the past on other projects and what an infiltration trench essentially is it's a stone trench that's built in an area where if you're trying to remove surface water and try to provide a mechanism for to get fensi the ground utilizing a stone trench along the base of the retaining wall will allow surface water not only to flow along the surface but any potential areas where it may Pond the water can infiltrate into that trend Stone trenches are typically a couple of feet deep they could be about 2T deep little bit less little bit more and essentially there's about 6 to8 in of top soil above the stone that gets planted so when all the construction work is done you'll never know that there's a stone trench however in addition to that stone trench the pipes are conven pipe that is that will pick up or collect the water and discharge through the property will continue to back fill of those pipes in L of using DGA which is dens grated aggregate which is basically a crushed stone aggregate material that has a lot of fines intermixed with it we'll revise our detail and design so that we would utilize clean Stone as part of that pipe back so not only will the water flow any potential surface water that gets into that trench not only will it flow through the stone but it will also flow along the pum and by doing that it'll minimize the possibility of having any pum fing on the neighboring properties as a result of storm water flowing in this area um turning to uh uh section 2.2.5 of Mr clarico memo he says that um the property fronts on Parker a uh and um want clarification on who has rights with respect to Parker AB whether bur NJ do now you've you've met with NJ do is that correct I've reviewed the project in concept with d we have not officially met as of right now however in terms of the actual right of we and of Parker Avenue did these h a property this property and the adjoining properties it makes references to Parker Avenue the tax map for the burrow doesn't identify where parking Avenue was the current tax map the way it shows the right of way for rout2 matches all of the deep lots that we have the property so at some point where Parker Avenue might have existed there's some indication in bag Deeds that Parker Avenue was vacated either in the 30s or 40s we have some additional deed work that I could certainly plot and provide to mrle thank you Street and there was and so it's the Madam mayor certainly has more information than I do in terms of their history it's the de calls for Park renue but all of the documentation we have doesn't really indicate where Park R um even some of the older Deeds make reference to Bar Rue and again we do have some information that Parker Avenue did exist and was vacated when uh the circle in Route 12 was built so we will certainly provide the additional information but right now there is technically no Parker Avenue it's all of it is the rightest way for2 it's incorporated into the DT right away yes when you say was dat that would typically me vacated rights would go to some entity you're the entity with do I believe that's the way the deed reads that when the burough vacated the right ofo it basically went for the work that was done for R2 that's essentially your CL is representing yes so when Route 12 was so there was a Parker Avenue when State built Route 12 named Route 12 because it's 12 miles long which been fast um Parker Avenue was basically deemed R 12 but under the Board of Elections Parker Avenue exists for the voters on Parker Avenue so the residents that live on R 12 do have addresses listed as Parker Avenue R than 12 prior to the Circle Parker Avenue went a little ways down what is now 12 Main Street did not have North and the South Side it was Main Street Circle didn't exist and subdiv Street the addresses of these properties are yesal name I think they moved I think they ended up calling the Parker Avenue because before they put the circle in my neighbor who's Mrs Rob on the left side of me her house was moved from Brown Street to where she is By Me on WE 12 and I think that's when they did the circle I they knew there were houses there and they just couldn't have it where it just went into one big thing so they kept this part I never knew this par until I moved therey thank you looking forward to that history and so on that note I may suggest we usually break at 9 I was trying to gauge where the testimony was going could we break now and come back to your testimony because I think we're still moving along with a lot of query questions from the cour is that correct I was thinking finish your testimony and then have a break and go on to Bob's comments but I think we're going to need to break because we usually break that and everyone so if everybody's agreement we break five minutes so I'll say come back 9 9 try 9 can we take back please May Mr here missman here Mr Sino Miss swing M Mario M kazinski Mr clo MC give me um when Mr josed himself we didn't actually everybody else do you think we should I want just want to make sure we should do that yes we have made practice asking everyone on the board if for new board members um what we typically do is we ask everyone if they have any conflict whether it be a u personal or financial direct or indirect uh interest with regard to the applicate with regard to the project um and we do that because conflict of interest issues can arise a certain points in time um we typically ask that in the beginning of each application I forget to do that tonight so I'm glad that you reminded me we'll do that um and I just want to point out if anyone ever thinks that they may have any or has any questions exactly what that is you let me know we can talk through it um but is there anyone you know at this point that feels that they have any potential um conflict of interest with regard to this this application speak nobody's okay thank you for giving us that time councel all right everybody let's continue with this person's testimony please sorry Eng testimony thank you I want just clarify some your testimony that you just gave um the road's going to be in the development is be a private road correct correct okay um Mr Clo's report moving on uh which is identified as pb4 that's the report of January 17 2024 was updated from September um uh uh I'm now on um number 2.2.6 there was discussion about whether the neighboring property had an easement over Lot 12 and we have we've been a there been a title report there's no evidence of reported ements correct correct there's no e noted in our title history for our property uming to page eight of pb-4 um uh will comply with the requirements to get lot and lot numbers and public Street correct correct okay and um the Mr clerico also asked for details about the access onto Route 12 from NJB as well as permit plans can you comment on that no the proposed roadway will access NP or New Jersey State Highway W2 um part of our project is going to require perms from B to be issued for construction the new roadway eot has as part of their requirements how their plan sets and so forth have to be prepared we have started preliminary preliminary process and discussions with doot as of right now I'm trying to set a the application meeting to go over with to dot what they are going to ask of us in terms of plans and reports and any additional information they they may want in order for us to file a permit application for construction of the new intersection um certainly once those plans are prepared I will definit Prov B with copies of all of the documentation for the record any acts in this board will take would be subject to if the app ping any and all Outside Agency permits which would include do or D or any other agency jurisdiction over the application what we're trying to ascertain as part of riew normally is that we're not proposing something that's inconsistent with what an agency might require because that would then result in for approval subject to a condition that would then force them to come back here to seek an amendment to an approval than and I would also be interested in seeing those plans absolutely um don't oneck question you even though there's physically access ability between lot 13 and your lot out front the driveways are interconnected there's no legal the owner of the adjoining lot 13 has no legal access rights through this property correct there's nothing that's your testimon yes there's nothing in our title that indicates there's an easan benefiting lot 1am okay um Eric turning to um pb4 that's Mr Claro's letter of January 17th on 3.3.2 um he says um that the proposed sidewalk along the private access road has not been widened to a width of 5 feet and 200 foot intervals can you comment on that so certainly we could provide the additional 5 foot passing area I believe is how the uh it's turn now along the sidewalk part of any future plan of revisions we will incorporate the 5ft areas necessary and we'll also provide uh Ada ramp details correct correct okay um question I don't want you don't mind since something come on will that include Ada accessible crosswalks you're not the riding sidewalk around the whole property we be proposing a ada8 compined crosswalk so the houses on the South Side can access side the north side uh we can certainly provide AC crosswalk um essentially where the parking lot the smaller parking lot is I think might be the most appropriate location um Eric I'm turning to page the end of page eight beginning of page nine of tv4 Mr clerico com 3.3.4 talks about uh how the sidewalk was shifted uh to some degree I guess with the storm water uh uh changes and that uh part of the sidewalk is outside the right ofo and goes into some of the Lots uh we're going to revise the plans to show up an easement to accommodate those encroachments correct to the HOA correct okay and that doesn't present any issues correct no um in those are where you're shifting sidewalk outside the right you still have 18 wide driveway 18 long driveway yes from the garage door to the back of the sidewalk it's about 18 feet 2 Ines so we Dimension positive okay so well on the subject of the driveway um we're providing sufficient parking for this correct correct so for 18 Town design each unit has a garage plus the driveway so each unit essentially will have two parking spaces additionally we're providing a small parking lot which is towards the southeasterly Westerly corner of the property there's a small parking area there that has 11 parking spaces three of which we're proposing to be EV ready spaces um so the project essentially is providing for the 18 Town Homes 36 parking spaces plus the small parking area now um also one of the I think th in terms of the number of e parking spaces that are required um within the parking area that small parking lot we're providing three EV parking spaces however the way we anticipate this project functioning because they're individual townhouse units each with their own private garage and or driveway is that with most of the EVS on the market right now there's typically a home charger to go along with them that most people either have in their garage or it's attached to the outside of their houses that they can utilize to charge their cars overnight from their parked or during the day so the way we anticipate this working is that any of the homeowners who would have an electric car that if they wanted in L of having to park in that parking lot to charge the car they would essentially Park in their own on their own priv property where within partk of car so in L of 15% over the 40 I believe it's 43 parking spaces um in L of 15% multiplied by the total number of parking that's required for the project essentially we would have the three EV parking spaces within the parking lot for any visitors and anyone of the residents who has or who would have an electric car or a truck they would have their own private home charger that they can utilize in other words um the people who be living in the town houses will have parking in their garage and on their driveway and if somebody wants to buy an electric vehicle it would be relatively you know easy for them to provide a charger in their own go that vehicle correct correct okay and um you say 43 spaces are required for this project and we're providing 48 think it's 48 I just to as well when you're in the park close to thir s thank you J and do you foresee any issues with vehicles turning around on this property no at the end of at the end of the private roadway we are providing a toac bul essentially um one comment that the fire department had is that they needed a larger turning radius their largest apparatus required 84 ft RSI only requires an 80 foot paved B at the end of a KAC we've increased that to 84 ft to satisfy the fire department which exceeds our requirement so I don't anticipate there being an issue with anyone turning around on this property or any trucks um within the parking lot the little parking lot that we have it's the aisle instead of being 24t wide the is is going to be 27 feet wide also all of the parking spaces are you're coming down the road even if you're attempting to turn into that parking area all of the parking spaces are going to be visible in the event that they're all out occupied you can continue down the roadway additionally if you inadvertently turned into the parking area and every you wanted the space is occupied the handicap parking space is B accessible meaning that the actual strip Island adjacent to that parking space has to be at Le 185 so if someone needed to utilize or to turn around within that parking area they would have the option essentially you're pulling into that stri parking area because nothing is allowed to occupi that area and use that as a internal exit entally this this is the strip marking area that's and um the HOA would be enforcing parking restrictions correct correct um and and you reviewed the letter from the fire marshal correct um yes I believe there's a most recent letter that we wrote was dated June 23rd 2023 correct correct and did you have any issues with that letter or are you able to comply I believe we have at part of the plan revisions there are several notes that's been adding to added to the dra to the Pres comments uh the only design requirement was the larger turning radius at the end of the to which was provided there correct um is there anything else about parking that you want to mention or that you think it's important to mention at this point no I think in terms of the parking we're certainly providing more than the minimum that's required by RS for this project um in terms of uh I'm going to turn to page 10 of Mr Claro's letter of January 17th uh number four talks about site grading this com at four and goes into that in various steps um do you have any comments I know you've already addressed site grading to some extent do you have anything that you want to add to address those comments no I think in terms of the grading if there's any ability to modify and to further try to address some of Bob's cont I think we may have the ability to tweak the site design a little to provide greater separation from the property line to the retaining wall but I do believe the way the site has to function given the storm water requirements for this project we have to utilize the retaining wall typical SW constructions are just not pritable to this project because it puts the bottom of the sale at a lower elevation than the pipe that this charge Point Eric while we're back from the subject of storm water um you you modified your report to uh satisfy some of the requests of the uh engineer who was representing the condo board correct correct okay and so and you're going to provide uh that report with those modifications to Mr clarico correct correct the record he's been provided to the board to the board okay it's got to be part of the public record okay we're g to provide that to the board it's updated and how was it different from what was provided so the actual with the board or the design of the system didn't change but the way the association engineer wanted the analysis for the offside area to be completed difference from the way it was presented to the report that the board has on file so the the conclusion Remains the Same we meet all of the rate production requirements both for the onsite when you account for the offside area we're meeting all the performance requirements it's just how we get there slightly different in terms of how he wanted the numbers computed and then added this for the board's edification under the under the storm water regulations state regulations at the B required um to to to adopt and to enforce we have to make a finding uh that in fact what they're proposing is fully compliant with with the storm water design criteria all all the various categories and criteria they need to meet we have no provision in our ordinance to allow for any deviations or to be a specific finding that they met they died every across every team they met every stand which a lot of the comments in here they said they either provide with or they haven't yet provided what the engineers indicating is that they made other modifications to design we haven't seen yet to address concerns the adjoining property own but again the jurisdiction and the U the body has to make that conclusion is is the pl Amer in your opinion it's an improvement over existing positions corre correct um again the way the storm water management rules are written the applicant is required to reduce the rate of runoff from his development to below what occurs currently so part of that reduction requirement is for the two-year storm we have to reduce that rate by 50% as compared to existing conditions we're meeting that again for the 10year storm we have to reduce it by 25% for the area that's being developed the aant is in it's meeting that criteria for the 100e storm we have to reduce it by 20% and again we're meeting that Criterion okay um going back to uh pb4 that's Mr ther's January 17th letter um uh 4.3 discusses various discusses earth work you see that on page 12 yes are you able to comply with all of the comment 4.3 correct we will certainly note on the plans into revision that a geotechnical engineer um would be retained to supervise and to oversee and approve all of the areas of bill on the property um uh I think we've already discussed storm water management so let's go on to page 16 Mr clerico the letter of January 17th that should P4 um number six talks about utilities uh sanitary sewer um did you receive a copy of a letter from the sewer department October 31st so we do have some comments from the sewer department yes is that part see um it was sent to the board by the engineer October 31st I'm going to give you that the bur Engineers yeah we received a letter uh we were copied on it it was addressed to the planning board and it was from um Remington and Vernick Engineers dated October 31st 2023 um Kristen Kramer I actually have that Mark that as seven GB seven at the fire Marshalls June 23rd 236 okay so um that would be the letter dated October 31st 2023 you so um Eric um you've been in Communications with the uh the sewer department correct correct okay and uh can you address have seers going to be handled on this presently along the south of existing lot 11 which is a lot that fronts on2 towards the back of that property there's a sewer mate um our current proposal is to connect our proposed sewer main extension through this property into that main however I do believe based on some deed information and even Comm from the sewer engineer that we may be able to connect to there is words the west of the property on one of the adjoining Lots there's a part of the burough sewer Network there's an existing sewer main that's located on that property and it's actually shown on this plan there's an existing manhole that we have to figure out which we have not yet been able to do whether or not there's an actual easement that would allow us to tie into that main that's one of the recommendation that the B SE department has is to try to connect into that system if there is an easement that will allow us to connect into that system that will revise our sewer design in Lou of connecting in the main that's located towards the rear of the property Z we2 we would Connect into that sewer system that's located to the west of us see maybe just summarize saying they ask do an off off your property replacement of the existing sore line down to that manhole at the back of the car watch no so the existing SE line that's located basically behind the car wash and along the rear our property that sewer main is encased in concrete and it's fairly deep it's probably about 15 feet deep based on my conversations with the sewer department um we have the abilly connected to that main it's within an easement it runs through our property we do not need to secure rights from in order to tie into that so our current proposal is to connect into that main however towards the west of us part of a Burrow's sewer system oh sorry Bob towards the east gotta keep my point nor left or right um but towards the east of Us Part it's there's an existing sewer system that's Lo at on the adjoining property it's part of the burough sewer Network what I've got Deeds but I haven't been able to figure out whether or not there's an actual easen there that would allow us to tie into it the sewer system is part of the buroughs network it's clearly part of the burough system that the bur's recommendation via the sewer department is to try to tie into that system L of the system that currently is located along the r of the car wash along our property um if we have the ability to tie into that via existing rights then we will revise our design to connect into that system um because better connection for us because it's not at Ste number one and number two it's not encased in concrete so it makes the process simpler for us and also make it simple for the developer and also for the B to maintain so that's part of the revision that we will have to or the investigation that we need to do rev PL Sewer Department indicated there's enough capacity for this correct correct we've reviewed both the water and sewer capacity with the burrow and adequate capacity s for both um and that same you've been in touch with the youve discussed water also correct provision of water in terms of capacity yes we have discussed the ability to provide water to the property and the burough has ADD capacity to serve the site and do you see any problems with connecting the water M and uh any issues raised by the by the burrow in that capacity I we've got capacity so we clearly can tie in and we have capacity um the water main extends or exists within rout 12 our proposal is to connect into the water main within route2 Loop it through the property and then connect the water main the end of that Loop will connect in towards Main Street there's an existing Ingress and egress ement that benefits this property on usual build property to the south of us our plan is to utilize that easement for extension of the water M into Main Street and that'll create a loop system which in the event that there's a breakage or damage along any of the water M that the bur may have to service if they need to shut water service off to some of the properties that it doesn't isolate all of these 18 hes access right eement conment utility for installation utilities it's it's specifically those sress we're investigating whether or not we would need to secure it correct we're investigating whether or not we have the ability to install utilities within that as part of the eress and if it doesn't you're going to have to acquire those rights correct um er the the Fire official um uh B Bob and HS on page 17 6.2.4 of his January 17th letter said you're going to need approval from the Fire official regarding fire hydrids and water supply do you fore any issues with that or is there sufficient in your opinion water to address the fire hydrants no I believe for fine in terms of the location of the hydrants and we certainly we submit the plans to honor Marshall and ask for his input but in terms of providing adequate firefighting fire hydrants um I believe we can certainly accommodate any of the fire department needs i' be Asain that part this FAL system has required flow and pressure that for these type of building units that would be otherwise required under RS no we have not at this point um turning again to Mr Claro's January 17th letter uh Gas and Electric uh 6.3 um uh do you foresee any uh issues with gas and electric you describe how that's going to be addressed uh on your site plan certainly so I do not anticipate any issues with gas and electric generally those service lines are relatively shallow um electric service will be brought in on the ground to serve the new residences obviously gas is completely underground those lines are typically about 24 in from the surface give or take and because they don't depend on gravity for flow they can Meander and move in and out up and down and sideways is necessary to avoid any of the strong drainage infrastructure and likewise any of the sanitary super infrastructure which depends on slope because they have the glob of gravity those other utilities could be worked around any of the gravity um designed Utility Systems and uh uh let me describe the um the Landscaping that provided there just that's part of the site plan that was U that correct correct that that sheet number 19 up to set that the board has on file and what this plan shows is the proposed Landscaping that you have is would like to construct this part of this development um along the private road we have Street trees along both the Northerly property line the southerly property line along that easterly property line we're providing trees and shrubs to provide some screening from this development from the adjoining properties um along the foundation and in front of the new homes we're also providing trees and shrubs to soften the foundation um so that once you have the building we don't have to use long walls or bare walls we're providing low growing shrubs along the foundation to try to break up that mass so that it the project is more visually appealing um is there any issues with the location of the street trees in terms of uh um electric service or uh L we removed the planting so that they don't conflict with any of the utilities if there's additional changes in plan revision say will be necessary to complete this progress um we'll certainly continue to modify any of those locations as necessary to avoid any utility conflict can you also describe how the applicant is proposing to light the property so what we're proposing are along the private roadway and then likewise within the parking area we're providing individual lies and I do not have a m to C of that of the lighting plan but there is a lighting plan that's included in the pl set that the board house and the final sheet in the set sheet number sheet number 20 and what we're proposing in terms of s lighting are individual light stanions mounted along the private roadway um the stanions are going to be 15 ft High measured from Finish braid to the top of the light fixture and all of these light fixtures are basically fully fielded lights and they're also fully full cut off pictures the full cut off pictures what those lights are they are essentially the more modern light fixtures that when you look at the light you do not see the light source you see the light eminating from the fixture but you do not see the bul also those fixtures typically when you're looking at them from a distance normally the plane which is is that the light emanates from which is the bottom of the fixture you do not see any light spillages that those are the full the full cut off light fixtures those are the ones that we're proposing likewise with the lights along the roadway itself we're going to utilize shielded fixtures so that any of the normal backlighting that you would have since this is a res residential development we do not want want to have the lights spilled back onto the dwellings so we're going to Shield those lights so that it lights the road and it lights the sidewalk but there's not too much light spillage towards the dwelling and um we received comments from the environmental Commission more the cv5 cv5 okay all right and um we've addressed these plantings uh correct uh we planted fre as were possible and correct [Music] um in terms of the um the impact the visual impact uh of the uh the retaining walls um can you address that so what we're planning to utilize and the applicant is not designed to retaining wall retaining walls yet um however what we have discussed instead of using masonary blocks or reinforc or concrete retaining walls our plan is to utilize either hand re type retaining wall blocks which are the more decorative blocks that you would typically see in the residential property um either EP Henry or similar manufacturers Diamond Pro is another one Cambridge also makes on theing wall blocks and those generally what I typically term segmented block retaining wall structures they're ideally suited for this property because it's residential development the actual visual side of the wall which is going to be noticeable by the neighbors um the retaining walls are not going to be visible from the op or from the owners of any of the residences those retaining walls the way they're typically designed is that all of the geog reinforcement that's necessary will extend towards and into our property it doesn't extend onto the neighboring property and also the actual face of the wall the more decorative part of the wall is what the neighboring property owners are going to see when they look at this when they look at the walls when they're completed all right um you have any other comments on Mr clerico the letter that you want to address at this point no um any comments with respect to the planning report or do we I think we've um this has been addressed and we can have our planner address uh various other issues you've sh have traic going to be handled uh Threat corre all fraction recyclables will be kept inside indoors within the units and um mail would be addressed uh presumably in Communications with the post office about how they want that correct okay um we talk about the outdoor areas on the side a little bit so the only outdoor or areas that we have on the property on this particular project is the Common parking area that small parking lot and the other outdoor areas are the RAR yards of the individual units um we anticipate The Rail Yards they're going to be private to each one of these units so if someone wants to put patio furniture or something of that sort at the back of the individual unit so could certainly do so um we're not proposing as you would typically perhaps having in a larger development common open space where you would have um I guess play areas the applicant is not proposing any of that type of facility for this project [Music] um right I have uh no further questions okay it's all you that's all your Tes we're open for questions then right so okay so we usually as we go through professionals first um and I think professionals do you mind if I defer to Bob going first on this one I think he's got most of the questions there's a lot here a lot of the responses we heard to this stuff we're indicating is the revised plan doesn't address the issue indicating they're going to submit something to address the issue so there there's 's a lot of what I'll call undotted is Andross here um some of the things that I heard that were I think somewhere more along the policy line we had asked that the um as part of this application that they they establish definitively the municipal line in this area for the specific reason that they're putting infrastructure in buildings one of the building Point actually is about a foot Over The Line so there has to be a clear distinction of jurisdiction in this area my recollection uh and I don't when they came back with the revised plan showing a be and BCE you know depiction of the line I thought that was definitive but what I'm hearing here that it's somewhat approximate based on some other adjoining property references that don't specifically have the municipal line my is recollection of the municipal line the burrow was established um to a legislative proess that established the V balance uh boundary of the property and is actually monumented certain areas what I was expecting is that somebody to certify they they found those minations they tied in and this is a definitive representation of that line um you know based on whatever you know documentation that they they were able to Asain in the field um in many applications the line is out in the middle of no we and if it's off 6 in or 8 in it really doesn't make whole a lot of difference but when you're wedging buildings and everything in you know right to you basically Building kitchen cabinets here you know know you can't have rough framing dimensions and stuff so um you know I think I think that has to be clear from this representation what they representing to us is in fact something that survey is taking responsibility for they said he's tied into that and this is an accurate representation could very well be exactly what they're showing us but we need you know we need that kind of assertation um there's a lot of open and what I come to find out tonight is that there's been several revisions of the storm water report since the report that was submitted to the burrow And We R qu five or six revisions to the I have no idea what they you know what they show or what they did or whatever but obviously that information uh has to be presented you know to the board the representation here is none of that I heard it right none of that altered the design that's on these plans before the board correct the size of the detention system stayed the same inverts pipes everything else it was okay so but we still have to see that because a lot of what we had in our report was a documentation elements of the thing that have not been addressed uh we also pointed out a few aspects of the design as it was presented that was not compliant with RSI with the storm State storm water criteria and not that it makes any difference but just for the record we indicated in our report what I reported earlier on that the bar update their storm we ordinance based on the July 17th whatever revision the state did Amendment to the storm water rules that the state did this application was filed the week before it was deemed complete the week before so they are not subject they're subject to the state St regulations but not will otherwise been considered the current regulation which has the enhanced uh rainfall events and they looking not just the current enhanced rain events but be 50 years out rain event so nothing wrong with what they're doing um but just I just noted that for the record it's you know they they got I say they got under the wire they met they met you know they they were ahead of the Dem so they're not subject to those regulations but at the engineer has been testifying this was an extremely challenging s um for all the reasons that he mentioned as part of his testimony one and described it rather accurately what's what's transpiring here is that you have a broad base of adjoining properties to the north and to the east that flow over land on very flat slopes into this proper there's actually a wetland area on this property which we'll be testified to you going to get a permit that you qualify permit to fill that Wetland area in you qualify as a general permit correct so we have filed for an Loi for the wetlands that show on the property DP has completed their site visit they emailed I think it's a couple weeks ago a sketch where they want the expand the Wetland expanded slightly um it's still the expansion is probably going to double the area of what lands that we showing on the property it kind of doesn't fatten out in all Direction it just extends a little bit further to the north but the aggregate area of wetland is still going to be significantly under half of an acre so it qualifies for a gp6 which will allow us to fill one land very important piece of information it's not inir um that we were reviewing this on rep again just taking this representation that they still qualify for that again this information that we don't have in front of us so I think that needs that needs to be documented on the plan the biggest challenge here uh is the fact that they again as he indicated they're putting fill on this site they're basically building a barrier that would otherwise prevent what naturally occurs which is water flowing through the site and what we had recommended previously and what they did in part was to not put fill up to the property line not put raining walls up to the property line but to pull them back in so they would have the ability to put Interceptor swales on their property they have no ability to go on the neighbor's property unless they acquire raing rights or easement rights or something and they've not proposed doing it so they have pulled the stuff back they pull the walls in but they've not taken advantage of that by putting sailes in those areas that we can then indicate would have adequately convey you know water down to these low points where they having as you described piping system that's going to convey that water through the site in order to convey the water through the site you got to get the water to those low Point head walls uh and be just pointed out to me is during the break that area that they're pulling the wall back if we want that s is actually going to be a landscape planted which is going to prude put SW so there's going to have to be a lot of modifications of the plan in order to ensure that it's going to work and and it's going to be very difficult but the fact that it's diff difficult and a challenge doesn't mean they you know we have to Rel waiver or give relief to things that we know are going at the end we're going to have water standing in these areas and we're going to have complaints to prop about the speed or whatever else I said they pulled everything in from the property line with the exception of the wall along the end of the U where the cuac meets the property on the east side of the property and if you look at the grades again something we have to work through if you look at the existing grades in area it's dead FL so any and obviously anything in that particular area you build a wall something instead flat you're creating a dam it's going to it's going to pound water it's you know it's just there a lot of little details that are not insignificant that are going to have to be addressed um the underground here very intricate um then design this thing because it is you look at this thing it's sometimes what would referred to as a they greeny you know in the with all the piping stuff um so we asked for details of that because there's a lot of pipes that are crossing over this thing a lot of a lot of infrastructure here that has to be very precise you know the storm water pipe that goes in has to be a certain grade it can't be 6 in off 6 in off the whole system doesn't so you're going be a need for you know a lot of new on and detail um you heard the request with the waiver of the uh of not meaning RSI standards for the sidewalk you're basically putting sidewalk in front of the units and then on the one side of the road after2 um again any action you take out on R 12 is the access out to room2 is going to be subject to do but knowing what do has jurisdiction going back to the par Avenue thing my presumption all along was represented here that that was that RightWay as such as it existed was absorbed into the de jurisdiction uh when they acquired a built rle 12 uh we obviously need to know that from do because they're putting a good chunk of their access road again nothing wrong with that we just need to know that when they get their permit from do that that do has that is assuming that jurisdiction is approving that as part of whatever permits uh that uh you may or may not be issue the revised plans did address some of the issues we raised in our original report which I forget what that was back in September I think um so you know as I went to this report I basically repeated all the comments from the original report and I supplemented it with items that either item was not addressed partially addressed or in a few instances was address and I pointed out the elements of how that you know how that was accomplished um and for point of order on that can I ask you um how do you feel that your report do you feel the testim going given is adequately answered your queries in the report for things that you said through said we're not addressed have they been addressed in this testimony or do we need lot of the testimony was to be they are intending to address it the the the challenge the board and some The Dilemma is that you need to have documentation in front of you you can reach a finding fact that in fact they have met the standard they've met an RS a standard that they met storm water standard that you have to have those findings you really shouldn't might can really shouldn't reacting on the condition that they should come up with some plan that does address because again you're part it's part of the public process documentation has to be in the public domain has to be subject to our review it has to be subject to questions from the you know from the from the presidents or whatever and it's it's a good thing that they met with the adjoining neighbors and they reached some sort of conclusion in there subject to a lot of conditions apparently but we have to the jurisdiction for approving it lies with this board and then whatever that final plan ends up to be if there's modification there's other entities that have an interest and obviously a join um cond Association raring has an interest here they're to look at that final version to see if they can Pro that again they have a different interest in it and then ultimately any approval you might Grant is going to be subject to rid Thanh approval because there's going to be inevitably some element of improvements that are going to be in R count being hiking raing whatever part of the parking lots and in this parking lot they're building you know some of the issues you know we asked like on the parking lot for turning motions they have a 27t they have dead end parking on here we just need to know this this works you know again it's a lot of again back to the undotted eyes on crost we just need to have the level of detail to to document that it does or it doesn't work um we need to you know we need to reach that um we need to reach that conclusion as part of this I'm not going to go through every item in here there there they they touched on I think some of the more critical ones but again a lot of the responses are in the context of they're going to address the phase one environmental there's bu buildings here they are commercial use might be absolutely nothing wrong with it might be contaminated soil we don't know I mean again we need as part of action going be removing buildings and take material out if there are if there is something that requires a phase two assessment if there are standards you have to know what those are in order for them to build this they said they're importing a lot of fill so they're going to have to I'm sure be Excavating out the existing material in order to put that fill in just to get stability here so there's there's a lot of a lot of elements in this project that you don't typically find in projects that you you R again they're not uncommon to run into developing sites but it is something that you don't typically right you for that doesn't typically see in Land Development appc so and is the preliminary well preliminary is is an approval that of all final is is the f with the map and whatnot preliminary is your approval to go ahead preliminary with conditions your approval to go ahead and build something right and we would satisfy the conditions right and it's up to the board to decide what those those conditions how far do they want to go in granting and approval subject to conditions that's that's up to the board well that was coming to my question because my from your original um report I've calculated the word 57 haven't been addressed in this report and I don't I personally don't know whether I heard 57 of those being cleared up tonight in the testimony and even if you did we there's a lot of detail that you mention the question I would I guess question this Board needs to address can advisor to your preliminary is is there more work that we need to see on these plans do these constitute good stuff preliminary side as they stand without all you're ask me have they complied with things I'm not going to be able to tell you they comped until I see you know the details so really the question goes back to the board what level of comfort do you feel in acting on something subject to um you know there's certain elements of what certainly has in the pass and probably couldn't you know the type of tree or whatever you got have four more you know things like that you know you are typical of what might be you know subject to the approval over board planner the engineer traffic engineer whatever but you normally would want to have and again this issue with the utilities I wasn't aware we want to know we board doesn't typically act on Plan B insur department has at least reached some level of comfort um so that you know we know what they're doing this idea of rerouting the SE the other way sounds like it's very plausible they have to look at it but again they're running as s through all this underground storm water stuff we have to know that it it works um so again it's it's just a lot of detail uh and and you're going to need to you know you're going to need to reach that level of detail before you can certainly sign off on the plan and the issue back to the board is what do you want to know what do you want to see or what do you want to hear from us before you vote that's that's kind of the issue I'm sure be has and J to maybe some we move on profession that question addressed what to your testimony you're showing these buildings one one case the building is 162 ft from the RightWay and you're showing the sidewalk andring into in those instances you're saying the sidewalk is not intruding more than 6 in in over the RightWay you basically you're saying you're maintaining the 18t wide 18 foot long drive correct okay that's again something else that's going to no and that's perfectly fine because I checked those Dimensions after don't you did it's just that it's not you know all right should we go down the table J do you have any I just had uh just one clarification there's only one rsis waiver so far which is just that sidewalk on two sides going out I I mean I take no exception to having one sidewalk out to 12 but everybody can use that but I just wanted to make sure there weren't any others the one other one that comes to combine would surface through your dot process which is the requirement to have 25t radi the inter R 12 at the intersection and there's a couple dot access code Dimensions that I don't think are going to be met either so I'm very interested in what the dot plans are going to look like what they have to say um in terms of their access code and in terms of what radius we end up with uh out on Route 12 and that was itk if I can for some clarification for the board um the ml has obviously its definitions and and mindsets with regard to preliminary and final approvals but your ordinance also has definitions of preliminary and final and if we just look and focus on on Final just to kind of help the board a little bit um that's defined as the action of the board after all conditions plans and requirements have been completed and the required improvements installed or guarantees posted so the mindset is every issue that you feel like requires some additional information has already been addressed in preliminary and final is kind of your end rubber stamp of everything being properly addressed and or install and or guarante so preliminary isn't the draft and then final is the final look the preliminary preliminary set site plan should be essentially corre and sometimes and sometimes it may as they're moving from preliminary to final they need to come in and get amended preliminary because they're finding as they continue trying to comply with the conditions that they need some sort of changes along way de changes of life um but that's that's certainly what the mindset is and what your ordinance mod is with a preliminary Cy and subdivis so under the subdivision provision quation there's a whole process for recording a map and that's the point in time where they these are going to be you sort of heard this part of tesy these are going to be individual LS they're going to be sold to individuals so there's going to be a infrastructure put in the ground for the most part exclusively private structure uh it's going be maintained by homeor association but that's going to have to be in place and at some point or it's going to have to be bonded and guaranteed under the statutory Provisions to allow for the recording the filing of the map that actually establishes the properties that could then at that point in time be sold so you're dealing and again you don't deal with a lot of subdivisions in the bar uh I can't think of the last mons since I've been the engineer we dealt with one this um but that's that's what that's what you're it's beyond what we know it's something that you know um okay can I come down the table and then sure I have a of questions first uh sidewalks I we talked a lot about how there's one one side of sidewalks throughout a portion of the Public Act but I actually want to talk about how those sidewalks are going to connect to Route 12 across the frontage of the property there exis sidewalk along along the state highway and I just want to that there's going to be a connection from this property property line to that part of the proposal or something that can be accomplished it's part of proposal it is yes and testimony mentioned that there are going to be get right that you're going to propose trenches along a portion some so what you were looking to do at the back essentially where the water flows along the homes that are B yes okay on our property that is right basically an infiltration and what side of the retaining wall on the side facing the property line or the side facing the town property line side okay and that will be a stone trench you end correct and how wide it doesn't need to be more than maybe 12 to 18 inch wide 18 inches wide primarily just to remove any potential fonding in that area Okay um I'm interested uh I have questions about what the appearance of that will be and furthermore how that will impa of landscaping that's proposed in that area you have buckers proposed in that area that I believe are part of uh an area that does not in part does not comply with the 25 foot buffer requirement and so I'm concerned that the trenches in that location May further reduce Conformity with that buffer okay um also in the lighting testimony that you provided I don't think youed the color temperature of the light [Music] it's not specified it will be probably 2700 it's the normal start the yellow or light that we generally use instead of that's right yeah my typical request L is 3,000 or less but you said approximately 2700 correct and um discuss outdoor areas for each of the town homes and perhaps this was uh speaking too quickly by Mr barbier but I believe there was a testimony that the to owner association would maintain the property with the exception of four building walls and probably excluding the driveway as well but I'm not clear on on what area will be subject to Common uh common open space as part of the homeowner association what area will be subject to private open space for the the the homeowners so I think in terms of the outdoor area we were just looking at the backyards essentially that would be available for use um it would still be part of the open space but like typical Open Spaces that you would have in larger development where an Open Spaces Ava on open one we don't really Envision this s function in that manner because it's really not like a condominium type development or an apartment building type development where essentially everyone is confined to a unit and then everything else surrounding it is open these are more invis to be family type residences where if they needed let's say forance a grill on the in their backyard that yes would be part of the open space or in the open space area but it would just be behind their house can we clarify that because that's not what your plan is representing your plan is representing this common open space lot where you're putting the parking lot whatever in that southwest corner of the property the other common element is the street which is do be a private Street the representation here is that these are individual Lots if I bought one of these Lots I own the entire lot there's no other common element there's no open space on my lot what there could be on my lot is a as a drainage uh facility that's owned and maintained by the homeless Association or a retaining wall That's owned and maintained by the Home Association but no other property owner has rights to my property is that is that a fair assessment I own my driveway I own my unit obviously I own whatever's behind my unit to property so in terms of the ownership you are correct I think what we were envisioning and to answerers Beth's uh question in terms of what the HOA would maintain so the HOA basically maintains everything outside of the building walls they main my one yes what about they grill that so then that then you're going to have to represent that that's not represented on these plan if that's the intent you need you know you need to represent that um that the area behind the house is common open space area I think that's different I don't think he's saying common open space I think he's saying an area to be maintained by the H owned by the individual well again that needs to be clear you know at some point it has to be a TOA documents filed so know exactly what they're doing just like it has to be documentation provideed for the storm water so we know who's you know just what those responsibilities are okay one of the questions I asked was the pur coverage for the total track well as the individual tracks the uh the ordinance requires maximum of 70% however it's also to this isor stormor develop stor water should be we can't Grant there are major project sub regulations maximum we have I can't hear what say we have another div our ordinance for properties that don't meet the threshold under the storm waterer regulations for a major project under the stor we regulations is disturbance of an acre of land or creation of a half an acre of infer coverage this project B that criteria we have another tradition that that's referring to in our ordinance that says that you disturb more than 2,000 square feet or add more than 200 square feet in cious Sub in cious surfaces you're subject to those regulations so you're not subject to State regulation but we have a lower threshold for a lot of the small Dev you've heard PR reports where somebody's doing something small there something but our regulations are not the same as the state regulations ours fall under the land use regulations and they have the provisions that Beth is talking about that says you there's certain things you need to do to meet that you know to have that uh that that accommodate that additional disturbance in inferia service Al be probably small infia service uh and but you don't meet it then then you have to reduce if or says you're allowed 70% in C your service if you can't meet those storm water they then you only can do 50% purp so where are we all that explation where that's irrelevant because your major application they got to deal with the state strong so so they they're allow to and where are they that is that now that we have the discussion that is my question to my list yeah thank you so I don't have the exact percentage um but what I can tell you it's 1 Point uh 1.1 acre of new impervious coverage that's being proposed and the property is about 2.4 Acres so it's probably about 45% but I can certainly part of the plan revisions will document all of the coverages and equally important if you are proposing if you're allowing cycling Mach showing if you're permitting patios uh and other if again if I buy one of these locks I want to put a pickable court in the backyard if that's going to be allowed you need to take that into account with you know with with the St M again your home ass you it's additional service your plan needs to take that into consideration otherwise when you go for a building from or somebody go to do something they're going to be precluded from doing it because your storm water facilities weren't designed for that to accommodate that as part of the documentation I just want to be clear we want confirmation of the total track well as the individual understood another question I have is for the retaining walls uh I'm going to recommend a safety rail for for those that are above a certain height perhaps and I'd like to see a detail of that okay I think the Plan called for safy greater [Music] thanil you indicated that tra be handled by the individual units but I presume the tra Park will uh go through the pet once a week or so to provide pickups correct right and will that be handled privately public um I'm not quite sure how we going to handle that we certainly work out deals with the burrow if it's if the bur can pick up will pick up refu within a private Street um if that's if that's an option for us certainly that's the direction we will go otherwise it'll be a private Haller is be parking on the street so the street is 30 feet wide so we're not opposing any own free parking but even in the event of a delivery truck or trash truck having to stop and pick up refes it still leaves us about 20 ft of pavement for traffic to pass so it's not was there something going way back was there something from the fire Mar about restrict the truck access think something and the parking lot the parking lotos is just for residents parking visitor parking and things of that yes not for recreational vehicles or boats or and that'll be in the documentation well the documents to The View we professional HOA documents manual everything to the satisfaction of the a minor potentially minor item I I heard you said you mail boxes but I was curious give a sense as to whether or not that's going to require an additional structure on the property or I don't know it this time if it does you need to show it yeah yes that's my you want to see where [Music] [Music] that there I believe there are some locations where three trees are in conflict with utilities in the right of way so if there's going to be updated submission of landscap plan I'd ask you take a look at that I do think that's something the board is that's [Music] something signic adjusted additionally in regard the liting I that there's a signant concrete base the also bring the so certainly adjust the base so that it's if that's preferable in terms of the height of the light adjustment come absolutely we can certainly adjust the base anyu [Music] I think right now we're thinking about having just at one level um certainly with these fixtures and what we've discussed is in terms of when the fixtures are ordered and installed most of the new light fixtures in the market they're wireless wirelessly controlled and also they're dimable so our recommendation my recommendation to the developer is that when we order the fixtures we'll have those features built into them so that if there is a need for the HOA to adjust the lighting it doesn't require changes to the pictures it's all done electronic okay and then the last question and I think this to be fair I think it might be uh perhaps a better question for your planner but in the early part of your testimony you address one of the uh I would say one of the significant design requirements for the site which is re access for rear loaded town houses as opposed to the front loed town houses that are proposed and I think there was some testimony uh in regard to in order to provide storm water management Etc that design was required but um I'd love to hear more detail and I'll I'll defer you as to whether or not that's something we want to provide or whether that's need to um it's really a fundamental it's a fundamental design issue that is present in this appliation understood and our planner will certainly provide a testimony regarding that [Music] okay let's go through the board um Jeff's been going to the online people um initially so Hannah can I come to you those you have any questions for this witness please hello not I'm sorry not right now yeah I'll pass on for that thank you okay no thank you all right I questions okay all right oh yes that's four pages um so they're not necessarily in order writing all over the space but um you said that Eric that the tning wall um is going to be in from the property line on the North and South sides by how much so it's the North and the said on the east side right on the one portion of it at the end of the co okay um on the South Side one I do not have set backer um I certainly provide them on the revised plan or scale them I you certainly need to provide them on the revised SC plan and you said that the nice side is going to be facing the Neighbors on all of the walls including all of the walls right all of them are and is there going to be Landscaping on the neighbor side on the north and south and east well you can't do any Landscaping on the East because you have it right on the property you can't have any Landscaping neor Landscaping on the neighbor side a budding well yes on the lower side of the wall the side facing the news will have Landscaping so they're going have the night side of the wall and they're going to have landcaping yes but the east side where there's also residential hings on Main Street it's going to be right on their property line one section one yes one section will be right right on okay um just I think you indicated but you didn't say clearly this site does require a d General permit number six correct um what's involved in getting that permit so General permit number six is for filling of isolated wetlands and DP has restrictions that the Wetland has to be under half of an acre and primarily it has to be isolated meaning it's not connected by Springs or it's not connected another like land area so this will be the permit that gives you the permission to fill right yes and you have to use clean fill under the law so the term that the when I use the term fill relative to the general permit it's basically to eliminate the W it's not a matter of putting material in the Wetland the material or the fill that's necessary to build this site is going to be clean fill any material that's brought in has to be documented and certified as clean fill otherwise we cannot use property so you don't need the dp's approval to do the storm water system so this project will be because part of any general permit or DP land use permits when it's being reviewed if it's a major storm water project it falls under their jurisdictions just WR so they do have to permit this yes under the new regulations that I don't know I suspect answer is yes have you app for that yet no we the answer is yes so if you had already applied for it a year ago and they had reviewed it then you would have been safe but they held all all reviews for a year until the new rules kied in so the answer is you're going to have to comply by all the new rules so because you did not apply that uh I'm pretty confident about that statement um Bo I wish um so you also said that you were going to have these the bio bio the inl bio retention system where are they on your plan are they between the town halls um the bio retention the the water cleaning bio retention systems where are they they're along the roadway and they're dispersed along the roadway are they going to be landscaped yes so typically with these stormscape units they're planted with trees or shrubs and the planting is shown on the drawings but that's essentially the Landscaping it's there's not a lot of vegetation that you can put in them because the planting area is relatively small but all of the inlets and the sizing and the design criteria is subject to D approval and they have been certified to provide the required total suspended solids removal okay so a question I have is if you're going to put in this storm water system system with this piping underground throughout this project how you and you're letting the neighbors or the new owners do what they want in their backyard are are their backyards somebody wants to plant a tree how does anybody know they're not planting it on top of one of these pipes it's then going to grow and break through the pipes it's so the stand you all the issues that you generally have with spres and sanitary sewer primarily typically with storm Drainage Systems we don't see that problem um under normal circumstances you would generally keep your storm drainage and your Eastman clear because typically it's a municipality or some other enti that comes in and they're responsible for maintenance and they don't want to have to remove trees if they need to do any type of repair work or maintenance on an inlet or drainage system all of the drain are all of these areas are going to be as part of the Home Association documents we're going to be restricting what can and cannot be done in certain areas including where the PIP are including interet documents are going toate what you cans small plantings those are perfectly fine it's typically what you would find in most of these these now anyway large plantings large trees no they're not going to be permitted so one one of M so you know there was kind of a brush off on the environmental commission's report which I read when they first submitted it I don't remember it but I do remember they had a comment about removing so many big trees and not placing them and Flemington is a heat island you are seven degrees warmer than Mar town and you are going to be forbidding not only water sucking plants so good tree sucks up 50 gallons of water a day but also not allowing Cooling trees to be planted please comment on so we are and you are correct Mad May that we are removing trees on the prop Big Trees lots of there are large trees on the property around the permit we will be removing to build this particular but we're also planting a lot of additional Landscaping Street trees along the new roadway we're planting trees along the back along the perimeter of the property in addition to the trees there's going to be it's going to be planted on the properties so we're not able to replace a 30in tree or a 24in tree but we're certainly planting a significant amount of vegetation to compensate for the wants that we're but perhaps we could have been designed to save a lot of those trees and plant within those trees um let me keep looking um so comment about removing and not needing half of a the project sidewalks that it would just add to more impervious coverage you don't talk about the fact that you 18 town homes on two acres adding a lot of improv coverage but we're talking about a bunch of sidewalks without any any at all um amenities to this complex of 18 which is an island right rout 12 is an island nobody's running across the street and taking life in their hands I would love to ask the homeowners at some point if they ever go across the street and walk in town to go use a new park we're going to put in over on Brown Street through W Village subdivision with the ab to that dog walkers and new moms with baby strollers not having a full rounded Circle and I you're eliminating the only meemes of real recreation in this complex aren't you the record to reflect that Mario is ien appointment ad this appointment early in the morning I'm sorry I tell her that she would have listen rest good night guys to um on that um we had the answer on the appr cover you don't know the amount um so a question for you you mentioned that they got in under the wire regarding stor water ordinance can you articulate that because you said they they don't have to theye to complete on July 11 it's in my July 11 the new rules went into effect on July State rules the state the state rules and you're saying they don't have to comply with new state rules if they're complete there was complete application file now what we just heard here tonight is that they have D permits for for weapons now if if in fact if you're correct in that that gives D jurisdiction to review the storm water regulations D May since you haven't filed that application yet D may be reviewing this on which means this whole thing has to be designed under the current regulation right I think they think it does because I know Liberty Village does do they also have so well again we're operating under rsis they were deemed complete the week before and again it wasn't we didn't know the new world just by they being complet on July 11 publish their regul their regulations on July 17 we have another coming in after this that didn't L they're doing it under their new reg um that answer I mean one of my questions on even though they may not have to comply with all of the flooding that Flemington has been experiencing and it's only getting worse shouldn't they have to comply yeah I mean it's just getting worse and worse and worse so um um com they from us two days yeah so you're saying that because they didn't file for that permit storm water with State then they file the they didn't get the right so Liberty Village filed the permit and it was sat everybody's review was sat on us that today is the application probably to the D it's relevant they don't care yeah and if D has equal jurisdiction R storm water because of the necessity for pit then they're going to have to they're going to have to design this under that new set of criteria you don't have the D we have not fed for any of questions so um what a fe of engineering from a water perspective so uh my question is so three to four feet of raised grade around the entire fire property uh based on the ability to both convey water and to keep your own storm water um under control so you testify that all you laying terms the flooding is going to be better it's not going to happen based on you know based on your 10 20 and I think 100 um that you're confident that what you're the infrastructure you're building on this property will solve the water the level on its property yes given that if there wasn't 18 units and grills trees whatever to develop this property would you have to put that infrastructure in if you decided to put something else on this would you still have to do that infrastructure from a water perspective yes because it doesn't change the fact that you have to discharge onr and storm water has to Flow by gravity there's just no other mechanism so regardless of 18 units one unit 10 units 100 units 30 foot height size correct um Barn ice skating ring anything developed on this property would have to have the new infrastructure put in from a d yes and thank you and um and um from a connection perspective there is what looks to be a connection from R and Township that ends right at the property no no desire to have that easement open the roadway yeah so originally we were in contact with the HOA prior to filing any of the application or design work with this board we reviewed the process or the project with the apoa we attempted to acquire an easement to tie our storm braining system directly into theirs and we were unable to sorry not a storm water I done from from from Ingress and egress perspective there is a road the dead ends of this property that had to have the the foresight to say sooner or later we'll connect it to something no desire there it would it's right at the the the small Notch of of your proper I'm just curious I mean you said no and so I'm asking like I guess my question is really with the big question mark we did have conversations with the HOA um the HOA within our Township of the subdivision to the South correct and they don't want I do not we I know we spoke about storm water management I do not know if we spoke about extending certainly I didn't speak to them about extending their roadway onto this property good wouldn't that solve one of your issues of Ingress and degress yes um and um and there are and likewise looking for a solution for Ingress and ESS um has not a question I'm sorry um I don't have any question I have no question okay Alissa um um I don't have any questions you definitely presented a lot of information and I'll be taking back to the environmental committee I suspect that we will have an additional you guys for coming so absolutely um er I help me help me out here with this I'm curious with the groundwater recharge system so you got 2.4 Acres you said what 1.1 is covered by imper correct um how do you how did you calculate the size of the detention Basin so you based it off of what history of storms or when you when you do something like this how do you how do you calate how do you know how large to make something like this for for something of this nature so I'm just I'm curious so procedurally what you have to do is look at the site in its current form and we determine what the various drainage areas are on site site and you calculate the amount of runoff that occurs under the current conditions which is what the storm water regulations require us to do once we know what those numbers are so for instance um this isn't representative of what's in the report but let's say you calculated and for the two-year storm the site produces one CFS the code requires you to reduce that by 50% so once I build this project I can only have as as my Peak discharge 50 % of one half a CFS so knowing what the target number is the software that we use it's called hydroflow um it's one of the software there are other softwares that are used in the industry but you then start essentially it's an iterative process where in this particular case I know I have a certain area that I can put this detention system at there's a length and there's a width that it has to fit in the only thing that I have some control over just given all of the other utilities to have to go in places How deep the system can be and once I input those parameters then you go back and you recalculate what all your developed conditions are going to be and that developed condition is going to produce a certain Peak rate and a certain volume of Runo you take that volume and then you put it into this storage system and we have control over how much water leaves the system and that's where when you design the outlet structure you tell the software well okay I want the outlet pipe to be 15 in in dier but Upstream of that pipe there's a control structure and it basically has different size holes in and based on the size of that hole it will only allow a certain amount of water through it everything else has to be stored within that system so it's that storage that you're trying to figure out and you play with the numbers in this particular case I have control over the depth because if I need 3et of depth in order to make my final output number work you'll set it to that if the result when you run the software or run the program if it says I have 6 CFS okay I know my storage isn't enough because normally my process is I start with the smallest orace which is 2 and a half in um and if that doesn't work I can't reduce that any further so my only other option is to increase the amount of storage and you go through that process essentially for all of the stor scenario get Rec this car with inch per hour inch and a we had n Ines in 45 minutes 11 overall something ridiculous like that so like a detention Basin you know is it able to handle these you know one-offs that happen I mean if this were to the storm were to come here can detention face and handle a oneoff storm you know here and there and and how reliable is it break down it does what tell me more about how Rel those so we typically don't model those types of events DP is established all of the storm events that we need to utilize and they're not using those quote unquote one off because I basically was a 500 AC storm or greater than that and nowhere in the state of New Jersey will you design infrastructure for a 500 airstorm otherwise you will never have any development that's why in situations like that they're oneoff events and you make Provisions to pass it through because frankly dur an Ida whether the site is 100% covered or 100% vegetated it is not going to make any difference to the downstream property because having 11 inches of rainfall in such a short period of time under normal circumstances with a 24-hour storm you typically only have about an inch and a half of that runoff that actually infiltrates into the ground everything else runs off I have never seen one of the detention basins that I've designed personally in any of these storm events when I've had the opportunity to go out and look at them where they've actually overflowed usually the water stays in the Basin and the control structures it's flowing through the control structures question where does that where does it actually tie this when it goes out where is it actually tying into is it tying into lemington storm water system where townships out on Main Street where's it actually going to connect so our storm water flows into the condos Association property they have their own storm waterer infrastructure in Ren Township that manages their runoff so they they're granting you an an easement into that we do not need an easement all of our St water presently from this site absent anything that the developer does flows into and through that property our requirement is we have to look at how much water was going there now and then we apply those reduction factors to it so when we design our system we are reducing it to below what's flowing there presently I'm trying to visualize it it's a pipe right ultimately there's a pipe that's going into their pipe no no no no we cannot tie in directly into their system okay so that's why this project requires the amount of fill that it does because we not connect into their system so where does the water go it flows Overland into their pocket which is where it's going presently okay and their system yes you're welcome everybody with our great question covered most of mine um I do still want clarification I think Beth touched on it you mentioned the the trench on the South Line and then but now your landscape planning shows what the landscape kind of asked but I really wasn't clear on what you said how how it was going to interact currently there so you you've mentioned there's going to be the stone French plus this landscape correct correct but we don't know how they interact I think un we're going to Lely see PL that look like that Tren correct um and also for Landscaping on here um you're showing somebody asked about trees into you said you're not going to allow trees to be planted by the owners don't don't won't these inter interfere with your retention system no ones that are along the side of the road no they are they part of the bio system those this Landscaping are not separate no they're separate okay the PLS that you see along the roadway they're actually on outside of the rideway right whereas the detention system is located within the P um did you did I he I you the um a crosswalk was mentioned I'd written that down that you provide a crosswalk Pro because you're only providing sidewalk to Route 12 on the north side of the this road new roadway we going to provide a crosswalk A Accessible did you say close to the um and electric vehicles were mentioned and you mentioned the electric vehicles um for the buildings for the units um the owner would be able to add that in that would be but wouldn't that would that be um Allowed by the HOA to put for for individuals to put charging units into that you'd have to write that into the HOA agreement like to do that one and there's also in the EV law that was enacted by state there are certain restrictions that they impose on HOAs not permitting certain things like that in order to encourage homeowners the same way that they impose them being allow as accessory uses in any Zone in the township they limit the ability of ho8 to say that they can't add these on okay so that's kind of good okay I can't give you the specifics but I just have one announcement um my Campion um left meeting yeah and we do um we're getting very late I appre but I think it's really good to have got this testimony out the way would normally try to go this late and I especially want to allow the public now to speak um can I just remind you this is um questions not comments yes on this testimony so any that you don't understand about what he said feel free to come up you've been waiting long time about minutes but please ask questions but again can you for the for the tape can you state the name and yes lend Lane and my address is 14 Parker Avenue my questions are your only going to do a sidewalk you're not going all through the whole development for a sidewalk no so sidewalk starts why would you do that what if there's families with children no the sidewalk is throughout the development it's it's going all through the development that they can come all to get the school bus that is not going to go into that development there the sidewalk will be the sidewalk will be all the way through and at the entrance what are you planning on doing for the children that have to stand there to be picked up as a safety feature because the bus is long there's a train track there so what are you planning on doing with that building part of it they've got to be safe there's a lot of kids that are L kids they don't have a mom and dad not to the bus stop so just that's my questions okay else anybody um if you want to make question this witness you please use the raise hand function online see n oh you have question but I have a question do it now soon but the the last question reminded me of something and forgive me I don't know the answer to this so my first question is for the board is there bus service for young in yes so so so a third grader will get picked up by a bus at this site as opposed to having to walk to an elementary this this would be Robert hunri imagine and and and because they're on Route 12 I would would be bu I just wanted to confirm I had about the children been walking from the site to school I just wanted to confirm that it's usually a mile like like from my house to um RF my been get a bus but if if you I think the m rout to they would be they would be on a bus cuz my kid's going to be on a bus when he goes and we're I'm on 96 I'm on M Street right right there or right on that line so they would be right there too so they would be on a bus as well that's Val point about um the bus needing to start I mean that work out but that would it would stop on 12 no um now that being said so that really I have question though if we as a board feel the all these points where a lot of points came up the original questions un things a lot of things we've asked this witness to add to the the drawings you know do we ask are weow to ask them to consider resubmitting a new set with everything covered that we set we have a really good set and then take it back in after F time have the planner andbody come next time but then we have a set we can look at can we ask that recommend to the applicant and Council that this is what the board would like to see right um and they can evaluate whether or not that makes sense to go that route or come back and still have the board want to see certain things um I think they're hearing what you have to say I think so because usually when we have a plan and we we have some amendments there's maybe a list and it's a reasonable list but I've never seen it more than like 15 items that we ask people to like cover right now I feel that I'm just gu it must Beach 100 questions things we asked you to and so I'm I'm just thinking I don't know what the rest of the board feel about that but like we'd like to see a set plans truly reflect what this pro project is going very next time so I guess the question is we now have two or a couple different options um the applicant hearing what the board has to say um we would carry it into application we carry it to the next meeting does the applicant want to pick a date down the road that would give him sufficient time to amend plans get them back for review of comment pick a date down the road which we could always continue to said but instead of doing it peace usually we go to the next meeting we want to put it a month or two months out and deal with it that way um so we can have [Music] May have different testimony based [Music] yeah think the second meeting in March I don't you want we want to pose this yeah we have architectural testimony as well [Music] think I think we have to go ER finish with him think you're right think hinges on what he says about planner otherwise it's going to be popscotch all over the place you have to finish with him okay so so do you feel that you know have everything that we've commented on that you feel that you need want have a meeting I just go ahead we miss and what we'll do is he can have a dialog with Bob the minutes tonight's meeting will also be available you know take a look at that kind see yeah ER knows us the coun always reach out and everybody ask question you know come apprciate that that way going forward so we're looking to 26 do that right so can do it so so we're going to adjourn this application to the March 26 meeting of the board same time 7 o' no further notice so everyone that's here you won't be getting any other notice on the application but that's the next date um it can be carried after that but some announcement or presentation will be made that thank you very minut uh we will have thatal review for amount chickfila I believe is is noticing um we also we possibly could have the public hearing for Central Station um get review from the H Street and they have AAR at the back and they want to build um and then possibly I mean I think I then February 27th uh Golden Heart holes was going to noce for that meeting as well um we do have a zoning appeal um that was submitted for the zoning decision but it they're an LLC and they they don't have represented by an attorney so until um I forget the it's don't remember while 66 um I'm hearing that's nonconform use so they can't come in Fr oh okay file but it's a four family house that somebody the property makes it more okay let them know tomorrow I think that but but the the property that I'm thinking of there's an entire lot next to it the exes use small if you sub you have an existing non-conforming use you subdivide the prop to make a smaller lot it's automatically a DE you're making it more nonconform usual real to District right yeah if they're not coming for that we can H or at the next meeting at the next meeting um have yeah we can discuss that if it's just chickfila in that well we don't have the um I don't know yeah we'll find I will how much share items I obiously need to chat to you guys what we need to talk about I'll be inou know number I might have a motion to approve the B B B approve thank you all in favor even we're not approving them may Carol uh councilwoman yes Miss GI yes Mr Hill Miss whitesman yes Mr yes the swing yes and Mr yes thank you need to go to ex session and