to say this first y okay this meeting is called to the provisions of the open public meetings act both and electronic notice of this meeting has been provided by way of publication County Democrats and newspapers onor about February 1st 2024 and January 30th 24 in addition notice of this meeting was posted at the B of Flemington Municipal Building located at 38 Park Avenue and any handicap accessible enenes th to posted on the municipal website provided to the municipal clock and distributed to all persons if any requesting copies of the same recorded with audio and video and maybe we broadcast this meeting is AUD any questions or comments must be limited to the is that are relevant to what the may consider in making a decision and form of perfect heing must be all times all right please rise as you are able okay welome all you oh roll call oh all right mayor Carol here councilwoman fororo you're muted I do see her bet I don't see her on um I'll come back Mr Campion he here Mr dashna here Mr cook here miss giin here miss whitesman here Mr Hill here Mr simino here Mr swing Miss swing excuse me here I don't see Mr Mario I don't know if that's one of the other phone numbers yeah I think she I'm getting her to dial in so I gave her the uh uh phone number and the web ID so is that her that you see there or it might be 997 check right now uh Rose is that you yeah n yeah 997 that's her here okay thank you um Mr eeko here Mr sh here miss kazinski here Mr clerico here miss mcmanis Mr Troutman here and councilwoman forar is connecting to audio right now wait did you guys another microphone down there folks at home are not be able to hear you with one microphone sure second all right item one on our agenda is time for public comments this is specifically for items not currently on the agenda does anybody have any comments don't see any members of the public here don't see any any attendees online who wish to speak please raise your hand using the raiseed hand function see none we'll move on to item two mayor comments mayor do you have any comments for us today hi no I the only uh comments that I have I'll save until we get to the issue on the uh the traffic proposal okay all right thank you um Adrian still connec so we'll come back to the comments um we'll come back to oh wait she popped out Adrian you with us she popped out I think she's trying to pop back in okay um HBC comments item four we have our meeting next week so the only thing I have to mention is we're planning the historic house tour again this year it's Saturday June 1st 11 to 5 if anyone's interested in helping out let us know thanks okay thank you all right item five professional reports uh the only thing I have is I did finally hear back from the uh attorney handling the forclosure action and connection with cataly okay I do have in writing that we are permitted to utilize the the existing esro we have uh for whatever it is we may need to use it for um I did not get a response to providing additional esos since we do expect what we're going to need to do to make it presentable in our opinion at least um will exceed what we have in estro I'll follow up on that and um we did take a look at what has happened in the litigation he confirmed that he's submitted a request to the court for entry for final judgment um and the court has yet to sign the order they're waiting for responses from each one of the various dependents that invol but it is moving um once the final judgment is entered um that is when it will then be put up for auction we talked about at the sheriff sale fingers crossed someone with experience in this one that purchasing it and taking it across the Finish Line um but that's where we are right now um I was hoping to be able to have a conversation with him to ask a couple more questions before tonight's meeting um but we at least we got that so we have to wait for all of that to play out before anything that we would get involved in in terms of do wait to see what there is one of other pie to do here but at the very least what we can start with the bur I start doing is what exactly does it you know feel the need to do it's winter time um don't know really what done plan things wise but we need to be done clean up wise um so I think we could at least start identifying what we might want to utilize that money for right we know how much was going to be able to do a whole lot once you get somebody on site that's gone so but thanks for the update I'm sorry we don't because they don't have a final judgment yet once they get the final judgment um it's usually it's usually I think they have either 60 or 90 days right off the bat then anyone is entitled to at least two adjournments of that each 30 days so you're probably talking five six months at the end of day and that's not barring any other motions that might be filed but the way this has been proceeding up until this point um is they're kind of letting everything no one's fighting most people haven't even answered and if they have they've been not contesting answers just to make sure that whatever interest they had ended up getting paid as a result of this so it's you know going forward as quickly as it possibly can um which I guess the only good news we have here right and just for can we just check that everybody at home heard that we make sure we're doing our technology right can you just let me know that you're heing everything okay one thumbs up two thumbs up and a n excellent okay want to make sure they can hear before we get to them along okay um I think better um and when we do the discussion of the historic map would you ask yeah definitely I yeah we can wrap all those topics right right and um nothing for me thank you okay thank you all right the next item item six is approval of minutes for the January 203d 2024 reorganization Meeting those were all issued to everybody to read trust everybody read them has anybody got any comments or clarifications ORS we need to change on the minutes at this point the only I saw was the house tours was listed as June 4 actually June right that will be changed I'll make that before we move forward there's another question I had um we do we not have to adopt the um annual report by resolution um I wanted everyone to have the opportunity to take a look at this um this is the list of all the variances um that have been granted um the intention would be that the board takes a look and decides if it wants to make any recommendations back to council based upon this report so if everybody wants to take a look and then you can let me know um we can discuss the next meeting recommendations such as change the side yard setback in XYZ Zone um then we can adopt okay I just want to make wasn't this no no yeah it's we I didn't feel that Bo had it long enough to do the review that um Power was on this time it's certainly going to go on the next agenda um so that's a reminder to everybody to look over that if you have any queries and questions it's great to get them into power in the meantime um and then have a discussion about anything we want to move forward to council other the next meeting and what I will do is I'll prepare a resolution um adopting the report and leave open the issues or the portion with regard to recommendations then we could always amend that resolution on the record to incorporate the recommendations uh so we can get everything wrapped up the next meeting so we don't lose traffic yeah need approve minutes so move B call please Mr cook I'm sorry Mr cook can you hear me am I muted no we can hear you you can't hear us no I couldn't hear him I heard his the motion um Mr Hill yes okay mayor Carol yes um and I just want to note that um councilwoman fararo is is can you hear me she's also muted right now move on to Mr Campion yes Mr dashna Miss giin yes Miss whitesman yes Mr Hill yes Mr simino yes thank you check did we get Adrian and did we get Todd's vote I did we get that yes does she need to do the star is it star 69 if she's dialing in she's she promoted to a panelist okay so okay got it yeah she might want to call in as well um that way yeah we'll just have to know for the record that she's in and has good I need some sort of verbal Adrian now we'll keep buy each at each point and then make a note when we get response okay all right that's the minute um item is resolution 20244 for bless Wellness they came to us and requested to review the resolution as we've written it is correct but we um we're still in the process of reviewing their suggestion is that the right way to put it yes so uh they have asked for a change in the condition of the resolution all board members should have a copy of exactly what it is that they're requesting um we're not going to discuss this tonight the the applicant attorney do want to appear to present the reasons on the record for why they're asking to this change um we had expected to have a lot more on tonight's agenda so we wanted to make sure we give up enough time for this um they will be appearing at the next meeting that's okay um and then at that point in time you you'll make their presentation I'll walk you through our options to start new things and board members could ask question yeah so yeah again review um the the resolution and the red lines suggestion for me was sent please everybody look at it and and if you have any contact car before the meeting or you can leave your questions for either way right um item is appointment of um can I just Karen I'm sorry chair uh Cara can I also ask you um to try to get a hold of uh the municipal attorney Chris corini this was discussed in executive session last night um some aspects of this whole issue and uh uh I just wanted you to just check faces with him hello hello can you hear me I can hear you gonna hear you we can hear you I think sometimes the the audio over there is choppy for some reason so we're getting some things but not all things so maybe can you tap the mics just to see if that's yeah I don't hear that sound like I was in did hear what I said about take care of that can you hear me okay thank you yes I can hear you I heard Adrian too and she raised her hand right so e Adrian raised her hand so we know she's um here I'm here guys I think can you hear me yes yes okay I'm gonna go on mute well before you go Adrian because we miss Council comments while you were dialing in would you we'll go back to item three Council comments if you have any for tonight at this today I do not no all right thank you then we shall move on to item eight appointment of traffic engineer for the Union hotel updated traffic study um the reason this came about this is um Jay is going to be paid from our planning board budget extra money was put into our budget to cover the cost that he presented to the burough for doing the job they've agreed course they've transferred that money into our budget so we have to just um adjust but we have to approve spending that money through our budget well actually it's it's the contract here um so the bureau did not engage a traffic engineer this year and and so uh in discussions with our CFO and our Municipal attorney uh they both concurred that we could have Jay contracted through the planning board um to do the updated traffic study since he is appointed to the the traffic uh parking committee he submitted a proposal of $7,000 to do an update and add a few more streets that were not done um uh back in 201617 and uh the bureau Council found that accepted they increased the temporary budget for the planning board to cover those costs immediately um Mr trapman indicated that it was going to take four to six weeks to do that traffic study so we're anxious to get him going so it's really about approving his contract the money's there it's about approving the contract okay thank you for the clarification there um so car is what we're doing are we um do we need a motion to amend his contract to include the I don't know no it's a totally it's a it's a different contract you don't have to amend this contract it's a new contract all right for additional work a motion to enter into a contract with Mr trackman to undertake the study as defined by the council and with the amount the amount agreed by Council yep and that not to exceed 7,000 uh relating to a traffic study pertaining to the unel all right so I need a motion I make I make that motion I'll second s know yeah call oh any questions or comments from the board before we move forward anybody yeah [Music] I um I understand and the am can jump in um because it was discussed last night at Council but I could I couldn't hear I couldn't hear that question or who said it Jeff go I wanted to know why we're spending $7,000 on a traffic study just wanted to know what we're doing so back in 2016 the area and intersection of Bloomfield Avenue and Broad Street was not studied at all nor was Maple Avenue and Spring Street studied at all this is about traffic flow it's about parking situations with the Union hotel and the apartments and that's what it's going to cover he's going to do updated counts and he's going to add a couple more streets can I ask a followup um is this not something that should be paid for by the developer then if it's tied to that project it should have been paid for by the developer but the mayor and planning board in 2016 waved any additional requirements on the redeveloper so now it falls on the burrow so I I do have a question so you're saying 2016 we have a 2016 2017 2018 and 2020 updated traffic report um so um on all of those reports so um and and if I remember correctly those specific Corners that you site were not part but I guess my question is for Jay when you do a traffic study and you're closer to a Redevelopment area or an area where where the U where the traffic is generated um is it not an assumption that at each subsequent intersection or left or right that the traffic if the if the findings were that the traffic and were sufficent in the roads surrounding the project could it be possible that the traffic even further away could not be sufficient I'm just curious I think traffic impact portion of the proposal which is just two intersections there was a concern that that U broad was never looked at getting field for example since that's one way feeding everything to Broad there was a concern that it wasn't all going to Channel A Main to channel back into broad instead so that becomes a critical one critical location that you might need a closer look from what I'm understanding of the request and then uh the other intersection is also um let me just double check bring and maple uh actually it's going to be Broad and maple again it's broad it's Maple feeding it to Broad so just those are the only two traffic locations the majority of the effort is more focused on parking in case some of the parking from the development were spilling into residential neighborhoods to be prepared for that if that were to occur to see what so it could be possible from a traffic perspective that even though it was found that it would not impact the road surrounding the development you're going to look at the road surrounding the road surrounding the development to see if there could be over overspill and perhaps something that could be detrimental um or different that wasn't found in 2016 2017 2018 and 2020 yeah it would just be two locations beating at the broad and I think that would be the end I don't think there's any Nexus to anything else beyond that and you're going to take a look at um usually with the traffic studying you you do counts and you can't do counts on the roads now because many of them are closed so you're going to have to make assumptions on the roads or you going to go back to preco which is where the 2020 last report went back preco and looked that counts where will you get your Counts from yeah no I would prefer to the to get fresh counts uh at Broad Street and Bluefield and Maple and Bluefield but you won't get the accurate count because Spring Street is closed so you really won't you we funling more even more folks now so I guess could only be what your findings would be could only be a worst case scenario since we have a road closed which will be a major artery out of this development yeah I would have to look look at that situation datawise obviously it is not worthwhile to take data on Broad at uh Bloomfield or broad at Maple right I would not expend those dollars this is a contract uh an upset limit so obviously anything you can do for Less is going to be done for less and then I I I read your proposal even though we're we're just looking at the contract but I think we're all just questioning or some are questioning exactly what we're we're looking at so you're going to take the I would suggest based on the mayor's coming of 2016 2017 some of point because I mean the lawsuits have eliminated half of that parking so we're down to there the a report from Doan and Dean dated October 21st 2020 which is really the only report that you should be looking at because the other ones are moved at this point correct I agree that's the one I have yes good and then so you look at that report which also cites the 69 parking spots on Broad Street as well I didn't see that specifically in your request or your your your outline but you did say you were going to look at the latest report so you're going to look at 2020 forget about the other ones I mean we have 770 parking spots in the first one now we're we're down less than half that so um so the idea to look at other intersections beyond the scope of the project to see if even though the scope of the project said there was no detrimental thing you're you're looking to see could there be something that might spark some different different oneway streets or parking permits or something like that holding into almost like a what's next in a scenario not necessarily as Mr dason said something the developer would pay because this is above and beyond the scope of of the project question get question yeah I mean it it is beyond their scope traffic study um I think it is focused on the residents on Broad Street once this thing comes online okay great thank you okay so any other questions from anybody on Zoom hands okay so we got a motion second now we didn't we didn't get a motion yet we got a motion motion Brian made a second that's right okay so see no further questions we'll move to vote Island can we take a roll call for this sure uh mayor Carol yes Mr seino yes councilwoman fororo yes Mr Campion yes Miss giin see now I can't I couldn't hear Karen yes okay thank you uh Mr Hill yes Mr dasna no Mr cook I'm going need to obstain on this Miss whitesman yes very good thank you um oh hav updated my original thanks foring on the wrong one nine was the ordinance review which was tabled at Council request so the new item nine is the discussion for the the historic district map um everybody on the board received John hatch's memo which was a response to our meeting comments when they came to give us a presentation um I hope all the board managed to look at that the idea of this discussion is to make sure that any comments and queries or items that were raised at that meeting that this board feels that those were incorporated or served by John Hat's memo so that then the process will move forward so the idea of this is any members of the board who have queries questions or feel that the memo does or does not um address those items this is the time to discuss it we actually have John hatches online for us if we have any questions direct to him and of course we have um Mr sto as well from HPC here to answer any questions you may have so does any member of the board have any questions or comments that they want to raise no good no good here okay let's go online before I have first on my list I've got Brian do you have any queries or comments about this you're good okay okay that is being no comments Hannah nothing from Hannah d back to Don Melissa do you have anything no okay thank you Michael good I'm good thank you Adrian I know you weren't here when we had the meeting um but I'm sure youve done your du J do you have any queries or comments on this procedure right now at this moment no Karen it's very clear thank you I yes you have any questions right uh no no I do not yeah we feel the report is right now um who do I have the May I'm good thank you okay thank you so that's good so that then means that we are ready to move it to the next point so I'm going to bring in Beth Beth has given us some can we send that out or not I don't think no I don't think it made it way to planning board members but we do that as a followup if that makes sense after tonight's discussion right what we're referring to just so I don't confuse anybody as Beth if can we send me an an outline of what the next steps are to adopt the expanded historic district um from both the ordinance point of view uh easy to easy right out um and we've passed that on to the HPC they're aware of what their requirements are at this point um so maybe want more on that what the next St will be yeah I'd be happy CH so uh what's before the board and before the burrow uh also is an expansion of the historic F scrip and so that means that at a minimum pursu of law we need to update our historic preservation element so that it provides for this expanded District as well as any additional information about the district that the planning board would like to include in there and so from the municipal land law perspective they make it very easy to uh update a histor or change the boundaries of a historic district but honestly it doesn't require notice other than master plan notice like you would do for say a land element the burough however in 2022 revise if folks remember we did a big revision of our historic uh historic district regulations included in that was a procedure section it's section 1631 L3 procedures for designation which I also want to know is the same for an amendment to the to the designation or the designated district and it requires a much more robust and notice process including those to the individual Property Owners because it's in the bur code that needs to be the the process obviously that going to follow so uh let me try to summarize what that is for folks uh so the first task is for the HBC to prepare a report about the change and a lot of these items have been done already or I I suspect are not too difficult to complete it's items like completing an inventory of the properties that are subject to the change that's certainly been done providing photographs of the buildings providing a map identifying the boundaries physical description of the area and a state of significance the next step is to is to uh conduct notice and public hearing on that change and the public hearing is specified or I think intended by the ordinance to be conducted by the HBC but I think that's something that the planning board can talk about if the planning board would like to uh provide assistance and host the meeting if if we're inclined to um but regardless notice is for 20 days as opposed to the 10day period that we would have for say a master plan uh and it requires uh notice to the individual Property Owners as well as to the official newspaper and uh like any notice having the documents being available for public inspection public hearing would occur and it's a hearing in the sense that there's a presentation about the change and then an opportunity for public comment and questions at the conclusion of the hearing the HPC would then issue a report uh presuming it was uh approved D during the hearing by the HBC that report would indicate uh essentially what the HBC is recommending about the changes to the district and that would get sent to the planning board for reval the planning board would then have 60 days to send our recommendations to the governing body uh and those recommendations can presumably say we accept uh the entirety of the HBC report or perhaps provide some different recommendations of how that might be amended once the planning board report goes to the governing body then the governing body is responsible for actually doing the designation and that would occur uh via an ordinance uh and of course the ordinance like any public uh any land use ordinance that the governing body would adopt also has its own uh notice requirements and then presuming the governing body expands or in any way Alters the district uh at that point then there's a notice of the designation that would occur to the property owners really just to confirm to them that yes your house uh since we're talking about expansion your house is now within the historic district um and we also have to notice newspaper and Municipal agencies again so I think the big change uh and I should say also we also need to do the max rep as well so I don't I don't want to lose sight of that we have this big process set forth in the ordinance that requires public hearing to be primarily you know conducted by the HBC that the planning board will review and then forward our comments to the governing body but separ par we also need to do a public hearing for the master plan the historic preservation element Amendment now you just used the word separate and apart but is as is it remembering they put those two public hearings be done at the same time essentially to save everybody time and money yes absolutely and I do I do actually make that recommendation I think it just needs to be two different documents that are reviewed and subject to the public a we need to have the designation report and then we need to have the master plan element thank they can Ur at the same hearing just two different presentations and I can imagine that questions can be addressed uh for both documents at the same time because they're obviously not obviously but they're intended to be very consistent right so the idea is right now I understand that seeing as we have no comment that this now the report that was given to us is De but we accept it situation is as as it was presented and given to us by John hatch that now we can start that discussion process and plan out with the HPC this is going to take a little while to figure out how exactly we do it we're not going you know it's not going to be next meeting be a few minutes away we can work that out we got the notices to work out right so our next process we have to work that out with that yeah I think it's a couple things so one the HBC does need to do a little bit more work now they may have these documents I just haven't seen them but we need photos of every building I need a physical description of the area I I need a essentially to take John hatch's report and the map and just repackage that with a little bit of additional information into the report that is specified in the ordinance and then I think the planning board needs to determine if it wants to do this joint hearing if you will uh for the HBC report and the master plan element along those lines I think the board should confirm that they want me to and this may have been done in a previous meeting but you want me to work with the HPC to put together the master plan amendments um and then we'll schedule the public hearing I had indicated to uh uh folks on the HBC via email if they need assistance with the notice I'm happy to provide some assistance but I think that's largely something that's probably going to get coordinated between HBC and F really well I have I have I gu I have on that if it's a joint meeting is it something that can come from and the notices come from the planning board also I'm thinking about HP actually doesn't have a budget necessarily like we do in terms of the not they have to send out I'm just is that something that the board we have to vote to allow that to happen or the next process is to happen or is it something that we agree that you move forward right I I would assume that the planning for I'm going to care but but if if there's coordination I would recommend that instead of the master plan element being done 10 days prior and put on the file I think that we may as well just do that 20 days uh in advance and maybe we can have a share of notice or at least for folks that are interested they can come in to B Hall and do everything all once rather than having back 10 days later that's what I'm thinking I just want to simplify the process in terms of everyone's time I think we could definitely discuss how to make that happen but you know there definitely needs to be two notices of separate public meetings for both entities you have to make sure we satisfied the open public meetings act both um but I'm sure once we get to that point and we could figure out some way to to dtail it so can maret right so just CL is that something that we can work together to work at that timeline with be working with the HBC and who us or is it something that this board has to vot on to move forward anything right now I I think if I'm hearing correctly the HBC has some work to do so let's that squared away and then in doing that once we have some time frames then we can say okay here's what but Beth recommends we do timing wise does that work and then I can work on whatever voting and resolutions we need to so this can come up as part one of your reports when you've spoken with the HBC on for is that right yeah it sounds like in the next week or so I'm going to organize a call or meeting with folks in the HBC to talk about what's needed and what everybody can do to me okay Dennis and John does that make sense from your end you understand where we moving forward with it any questions yes thank you and Don I I think we have a lot right we have the photos and you know so I think we have a lot of what Beth said but yeah it makes as Beth said it's it's it's mainly a matter of repackaging and then there's a little bit of text to put together but it but most of it is there so yeah thank you and thank you John for being in you don't feel don't feel you need to hang around after this if you want to leave thank you for being oh you're welcome I will sign off thank you all thanks John good night night hey great um Karen yes did we address um item number nine that was going to be carried that was for the ordinance review but that was tabled but on our on our agenda I can I can make a comment about that um we've uh asked our uh zoning officer to work with Beth uh because there seemed to be some conflicts within that uh ordinance that our zoning officer requested so um Beth provided a bit of a memo regarding fening in town and it has been sent to our zoning officer um yesterday so it was tabled from the burough Council last night it was not introduced okay I just wanted to keep it for the record that since we had it on the agenda thanks yep excuse me for a second I apologize so the ordinance review was item nine the historic map was item 10 for any his reference um so item 11 then as opposed to 10 is um public hearing for um tricka Inc block 44 lot 7 approval of preliminary and final site plan with variance Rel and let folks know that thank you good point at this point if anybody is listening in for item 12 which is the public hearing to Central Station LLC and 20235 block 34 block 7 37 M Street that has been at the applicant request um move to the carried carried to the next meeting with no that's actually was requested to be carried to the March 12th meeting not the okay thanks for that March 12th meeting public if anybody's here for that that will not be heard tonight and no new no notice of no additional notice will be provided notice is required for that can't hear me oh I get really sorry is this can you hear me now what they say is that good that's all right can you hear me is that good yep I think that's good I mean it'll be carried to March 12th at 7:00 at B Hall um no further notice of hearing would be provided thank you so back again to 11 publica in Block 44 lot s approval of el final site plan yes good evening s I'm going to step down from this because I'm I can't see anything and I'm having too much trouble hearing so I'm going to step off from this um hearing thanks for let us know okay um well represent chickfila first of all I'd like to thank the board board professional sorry sorry we're just checking we've got some technical issues problem the first because of all these people coming forward I was wondering that the laptop that sh down I don't know this is what I arrived to that's usually or she bring around no that those two are attached for those podiums what does it say on the top of it we'll get you hooked up and then does that do I need do we need does that need to apply into the meeting make sure our technology is good for you thanks need to share that puts you on camera Steve so while we're doing this iene you have copies of all the notices and approval publication yes and I found them all the the mailing receipts to be in order thank you oh no we still have that no I'm going through what I did cross fingers it works on here too and right can you see this now to promote it thank you all right there we go public view meeting need to M this yeah just leave the yeah use that micone look into the camera camera's there make sure you're in this box so people to try again yes please so again Stephen H representing the applicant chick bla uh and as he said before I'd like to thank the board board Professionals for coming out uh on a snowy night appreciate I know last month we had the rainstorm that pushed us off but again appreciate all of your efforts I'd like to thank spark for ranging and doing all the technical and supplying reports and and your able Council communicating with us today telling us that the the hearing wouldn't backward SE again we really appreciate that and your great professionals here and we all work with and appreciate their uh comprehensive reports so so we're here this evening for site plan approval uh for think Bo is well aware based upon the reports and the three threee meetings we have to uh modify the S the site slightly to add an additional full drive-thru Lane uh for pickup to and it's actually noted in your Traffic Engineers report to help ease site circulation uh address stacking and there's also um the inst copies and the copies in fact work on Mo strict ways they they provide better environment not only for the patrons but for employees for weather protection whether it be the heat of summer or afternoon rainy afternoon or any climate weather so again there won't be any changes and I know uh smack you had a question yours will confirm no changes in hours of operation number of employees or anything it's just uh make make the site more efficient so what I we'd like to do is first have our site engineer take us through existing conditions and then what's proposed by way of improvements and address the reports from your professionals we do have Representatives chck later here but again as they said there's no change no change in in a operational and they do have a professional planner to address uh the variances the applications minimal SL increase in impervious coverage this is obviously a permitted use in this Zone and is successful for this restaurant at this location and look forward again to making our presentation tonight and thank you again coming out on a snow actually Sunday afternoon have a couple of bons right y um so is there any member of the board that feels that they have any person personal um interest or financial interest in this application that would impair their ability to render an unbiased termination so few housekeeping items we're going to Mark a couple exhibits if we start uh we're going to Mark as exhibit A1 that would be the application and all the documentation submitted with the application A2 will be the proofs of notice and publication uh pb1 will be Mr clero engineering report dated December 19 2023 pb2 will be Miss mcm's report dated January 3rd 2024 and pb3 will be Mr troutman's report dated January 8 2024 um and Steve I can swear in all your Witnesses yeah you want do everybody once to testify could just give us I do you also have a testimony about to this board is the truth the whole truth or nothing but the truth I do thanks okay so uh as I mentioned we like to call on first our site engineer from F and Engineering so you've already been sworn if you could pleas to get the board the benefit of your work experience atise licenses you hold sorry fine good yeah licenses you hold and whether you qualified as an expert in the field of engineering before their boards are courts the state of New Jersey sure um as you said Matthew DT a professional engineer in the state of New Jersey since 2013 um work at Bowman Consulting in Paran New Jersey the responsible for the site plans effective application um testified before numerous boards throughout the state north Jersey South Jersey very similar application with others um other quick Ser restaurants banks financial institutions um with similar site um operations such as this I would offer as a field of engineer on the board any questions or queries on great okay so obviously you're well familiar with site uh so if you could take us through again existing conditions and then we can move on to what's proposed by way of improvements and then if you could review any political sections of the the departmental reports sure so obviously this is the existing Chick-fil-A restaurant um we're on the southbound side of US Highway 202 Street 31 South um located at 287 Highway 202 for the address block 48 lot 7 um we're on the highway retail Zone HR I could just if you want you could share your people that are remote can see it um I know we have the exhibit in front of us but you're welcome to do that if you'd like that to be part of your move it so the camera yeah that one yeah so what what we're showing in the the room here is just sheet C 2.0 site plan the submitted PL for those that that then folks can't see what um so the the chick-fil restaurant itself is part of a bigger a bigger site um the overall property is 3165 acres and the restaurant operates on a lease area of 1.38 Acres um under existing conditions there are two order order Lanes which are on the north side of the building um where you know orders are placed and then Vehicles will merge into one lane on the south side of the building for the pickup um the the purpose of this application is to add an additional pickup uh Lane which will then create two full Lanes from the from the you know from when customers come in and they approach the drive through from their ordering operation all the way through pickup they'll be too fully functional um independent Lanes um the other portion of this application is to put canopies under over top both of those operations the ordering procedure and the pickup procedure um this is not only to you know provide better protection to the customers but also to the workers that are coming out and taking orders and bringing food out to the um the customers um and as a result of these improvements we are reducing our over parking account by five spots so where 106 spots are required 149 are existing and then we'll be reducing that to 144 so still plenty of parking um operationally really no issues um and and the the reason for that is on the south side of the building where we're adding the new outer pickup Lane um there are nine perpendicular parking spots and since we're going to be shrinking that area um we're going to convert that to parallel parking spot so we go from nine perpendicular four spot parallel resulting the L of five um the other effect of this is a slight increase in impervious areas about 3200 sare fet total um so existing is 83.6% impious and we're going to 86.02 impervious where 70 is required this is obviously noted in um cod's review letter um and then uh the other effect here is trees uh we'll be removing five trees I believe it's three in the in the front of the building where the island is that are going to be approaching with the new lane and then two over where the uh pickup canopy is that we're going to be affecting that Island um but obviously you know we are putting some trees back and noted in the planers L I think there a request for some additional trees from the original approval um you know be as well but um that that summarizes really the all the proposed improvements that we are planning mainly it's it's the addition of the the second uh pickup line which will you know Chick-fil-A rolling this this modification out nationally um so what is a proven method to just help the circulation of the site reduce the Vie um there's no increase to the kitchen there's no increase to you know stash or anything that's going to trigger more vehicles to the site um the idea is to help the help the function of the existing operation itself you know get get um customers through the through the process quicker and more efficient and then obviously with the canopies um that should help the employees as well as the customers um during that process um thank you now if you could touch uh on the professional reports you receed I think focusing on uh just start with the engineers report and I know Mr CL already had lengthy comments regarding stor water I had storm water thought maybe we could on that brid maybe discuss that um we'll certainly work with you to address any storm modation I go through the details on that whatever you feel is best but yeah you want just touch on that and perhaps any other issues that are raised in professional reports sure yeah with regards to storm water I mean you know the intent is to to um comply with with the current RS on the proposed improvements um like like I said we are increasing the impervious slightly from today's conditions to proposed project and then decare those letter up the fact that the storm mot RS had changed in 2021 which is after the uh stor is built in 2015 um so the request was to go back and look at the site to evaluate it as a whole um and come up with the solution that that works to help address that change in so in whole um we're still working on that it's not we don't have that fully designed in this plan set yet but we have agreed with to to work with the uh board engineer um to arrive at a at a solution that works and all other conditions you noted the trees and the light y everything else no no no um no opposition um um I believe there was a comment in planning letter on photometrics on the copy I believe the operator will to you know take a look at and see if we can get that a little bit um from the I think looking for another directional sign or or stop sign yeah I I just had several comments on the sign notations need to be fixed um they use note keys to tie in to sign some of them are used some of them aren't and they just need to be cleaned up I'm sure you can agreed all that yep you no problem and that and just to clarify you were saying the double lane is being added to the north to the south side of the building it's actually the north side of the building it's being added to the East and the north the way I the cires for the north side consider the right and um just in terms of of parking there uh that would be the only concern I would have is we're losing parking are there any issues currently today with parking I haven't seen any but I'm not there all the time that's you know we can no I me again we're we're well in excess so the parking require to be working that all your test yeah certainly if there's further questions from the board professionals board any public I'm sure there will be we usually want need to be more than touch on aspects of the application it's required so I'm I'm going to go straight over the B we usually go there and go through our comments from our professionals and then our board great um for each witness so that then you're there ready to answer questions that we may have um so I'm going to turn it over the bo yeah just first question I guess it's somewhat procedural uh the modifications you're making to the North and the second lane are going beyond your lease area does that involve um modifying the lease at some point in time does that involve um consent from whoever the other entity holding the lease on the joined property more of the procedural administrative question right and waitress now so want to just introduce your you've been sworn already uh and this is Gideon Lee professional engineer although you're not are you testifying as an engineer no okay your name Gideon Lee g d o n o and your relationship to the ADV I'm a development manager with jll supporting to away and if you could addressor jll's relationship to chck we're a development consultant thank all address thank you for that question and yeah simply but we are in a real estate deal currently so we have a perit period going on so we have a contract that we're signed up with with a permanent period in I want to say so that piece was being closed on so that lease is being expanded to includ the the proposed improvements I guess it go back to car is an entity that's currently set contract for that agreement part of the your your filing with the board that's that's my understanding could you clarify that question apologize well we're you're asking the board to approve a plan for improvements that you're indicating will be on your current lease and you're if I understood you correctly you're indicating that you're in negotiation with and you have a plan I guess to amend your lease to include additional area which is not really represented on the plan so I guess my question is is that proposal how the lease is going is the lease line going to actually be modified correct we I guess we we can supplement this plan to show the proposed lease line yeah I'll I'll Supply that to the board and Council and Bob we can we had the owner's consent to the application so presumably the the owner seeing the plans approve the plans we can make as a condition of any approval cop specifically areas thanks for po that yeah um the bulk of my other question is obviously relate to stor water um as I as as the engineer indicated um there's a some to call diminus but there's a there's an expansion modest expansion FIA surface here um the overall project is covered under the storm water regulations as a major project what was uh installed uh originally was U there's also a variance aspect of this because there more impervious coverage than what the ordinance would allow but aside from the variance issues there's the storm water issue that what impervious coverage is here and the nature of the impervious coverage is here was accommodated in the infrastructure that was constructed as part of the original construction what's happened though is that in the intervening years the the state has changed and consequently the burough has adopted the updated stormwood regulations which oppose a whole different level of assessment uh on on development of sites the why I'm looking at this is that the incremental proposed incremental improvements would have to be designed in a fashion that they it either show that the infrastructure and they refer to dmps the infrastructure in the ground for stor Water Management to accommodate that and be compliant with with the current the new set of regulations or they're going to have to install some form of storm water management that's going to address you know that compliance with those those conditions so a lot of the uh I I went through each point of what the regulations are um what's proposed here either will be compliant with or not compliant with or we just don't know um because there's no proposal to address things like uh storm water recharge uh storm water quality and storm water quantity control um so a lot of what I indicated here I kind of pointed out what the issue was and I basically said I'm going to reserve further comment until I see how excuse me how they're addressing those proposed those particular issues of the of the pro project um and there other elements of the report as well with storm water is is basically the U the major element of what I'm I'm getting to here uh there'll be a lot of ancillary updatings the O operation on uh maintenance manual um and you know other elements we also looking for some detail on the handicap ramps that access into the building um the engineer properly testified as to what elements of the extic site they're modifying in order to accommodate um this and there's obviously some lighting Landscaping implications and J indicated as to what the traffic and parking implications might be um but there's just there's other detail that's outlined in my report that needs to eventually be addressed so we can see how it's being accommodated so as indicated a number of items in my report I conclude by saying I'm going to reserve further comment when I see a Revis point so it can I just Bob those those are the items mostly addressed on page four five and six of your report um December 19th one also missed over there's also a new standard now for um for Ev spaces uh for electric vehicle spaces which are going to have to be they have to have Make Ready spaces to accommodate the new regulations because again that's another should have backed up here a minute that's a provision of of the regulations that the board can't is not allowed to Grant any waivers from so they have to show compliance right now you have a s plan for you they don't they do not show how they're going to comply with those regulations um by the same token your stormw regulations are set up in a fashion that there is no mechanism for granting waivers or varant or any kind of relief from those standards so they're going to have to present a plan that's going to show compliance um with each and every one of those particular conditions and yes U they're on basically page four deal of the general stormw management regulation it goes into the breakdown of the U what's now required in form of green infrastructures on page five uh what's required in way of storm water quantity control which is also on page five water recharge starts on page five and goes on to page six uh and the storm water quality which is on which is on page six but each the original plan as was presented addressed each one of those items under the standards that were in effect at that time there's new standards in effect my opinion the a is going to have to show not the whole site coming into compliance but the elements of the initial improvements are already being under compliance with those um those particular improvements and I'll again I'll defer to the applicant planner testimony in the Tibet on the fact that it is a variance because they're from the AR zoning standpoint they're exceed they're already exceeding they had relief prior on the original plan to exceed the limits and they're now going to further exceed when you saying original can I just clarify are you saying from the original application not not the application we have with us now because am I right in understanding them from what you're saying we actually don't have a plan that shows that but there what they need to um show to prove that they currently doesn't they're working on that but they have we don't have it yet we don't have testimony on that tonight not for that for the the green infrastructure 2021 reg well there's quite a few items on pages four five and six to be honest that need to be covered not just green infrastructure not just things we got to gloss over and as our professional said we can't actually wave those items right so I'm I was expecting to receive a plan of what your what that answered these items do you have a design that's that's what we're gonna be working with you don't have them tonight not tonight but it is wor is worth noting that we did take into consideration the additional impervious um we did mod we did model the stor Basin that is there today underground and it does have capacity to handle the additional 3,000 square F feet of impervious area right which Mr cler to confirm that he agreed with however the new regs after 2021 uh you can't send vehicle surface into the underground basement any any longer so that's why we have to now take that area and find another home for it basically with with our our revised storm time right yeah his his report mentions that it it has a capacity but that doesn't comply with the regulations as they stand right now for cover this application am I correct is that testimony to that that correct that's fair and what we propose again we have and I see your professionals do a great job on these very thorough on is review we have no problem in working with c and your planner on storm water and the uh and the EV that's that's a whole area of the more confusing requirements these days with the EV but we have no problem working with your professionals like these are more technical in nature and I don't think are going to impact the site layout or any of but they do affect the application so that's the point I'm trying to make is and I'm confused how you come to a public hearing without the documents that we need to assess in order to GR anything to vote on anything you're saying you're going to work with him but we need to see it before we we we and the bo I mean by we I mean the whole board need to see that design do we not am I misunderstanding here speaking correctly that's the board okay well then if this is me just speaking so I want to raise it's not it's not just you yeah so I want I'd like can I ask a couple questions sure okay so um I'm just make sure I got this right the proposed design removes a planting bed yeah encroaches into existing landscaped areas at the one on the the roadside front and also East in the north okay so it removes Green Space from the planting beds corre it removes existing trees and according to our planners report you are deficient from the prior fruit site plan on existing trees as well and you do not have an adequate storm water plan to meet current RS in front of us to adjudicate and you're asking for variance relief on the impervious surface rep requirement is that is that am I am I capturing all this correctly yeah I mean how how as how as a professional engineer are you able to ask the board to Grant relief when we don't have adequate information to judicate the variance relief that's required to make the site work would say the say doesn't work um our approach was it was a DI Minimus 3,000 foot area um that the existing storm water system did have capacity to handle um you know the project alone at 3,000 sare feet doesn't trigger a major major uh development itself but as Mr CL rais you bring it in as incremental increase from 2015 so the letter from Mr clero was dated December 19th 2023 you were scheduled to be in front of the board late in December but we we moved that correct and you were scheduled to be in front of this board in January and now you're here in February and in all that time unable to prepare the plans that were necessary for us to adjudicate the application there was there's also an issue with us having the most recent storm report which I think everyone's aware of um we did submit we have we have a reports from 2014 when the original application was going was going through the process um which Mr CL he had the 2015 report the end report which we didn't have we realized once we got his letter so then we submitted op request um that produced another report closer to the last report but we still don't have it um can I just speak to this because I been additional information on this um the report that he's referring to is actually the the original Engineers report from the original application therefore the applicant should have that right it's the applicants engineering report it's not ours it's not Mr CL it was submitted as part of the application you couldn't find it as an applicant the applicant could not find that they asked us for help Mr CL who did not feel it was comfortable to give somebody else's work product away which was not his to give and suggested that the am I correct with this tell me if I'm stop me if I'm wrong um it suggested that they would have to for that um we received a communication today that you claimed that you didn't receive that oah um response I just um I find that I'm really actually kind of upset for our because um my our clerk told me that you requested it on February 1st again not in December Inna on February 1st and you received all the documentation you requested from the o on February 1st can you is that correct yeah what so yes you did you received it but not the latest report that's well that that that was you asked for op for what we had and we gave it to you but that document with all due respects is your applicant's document that was a different engineering firm and we acknowledge that we apologize said it's well that considering now that then you you tried to claim that you couldn't do this design because you didn't have that information but you've had it since you've had what you asked for since February 1st I I I I said that a little of our CL she did her job and claim she didn't received a lot of do but we still still there's a report from April 2015 the report that Mr clero has is from May 2015 so I still need that final report and we provided that consent so again we're not blaming we deal with these open and it's very uh demanding and and cumbersome for the clerks and other people to produce those especially and I got to admit when it came from the applicant granted it was years ago in a different engineering firm but that clerk shouldn't be burdened with us saying oh you didn't give it to us so we're not saying that I only ra that Mr J to clarify for you does it help absolutely it just I mean again we're asking this is the question portion of the evening so I just I'm I'm I'm asking the legitimate question would it be better perhaps to have all of the information we need in a journ this to a different a different meeting may I ask like yes we'll work with Mr cl to to bring back a more flesh out plan for the new J or New Jersey roads but I guess aside from swim water can we you know are there any other questions that we can feeli and we prepare for the next you know cycle you have a you have a seven page set questions from Mr CL pretty clear on what we required from that report um I'm also sorry no no no no I'm not minded to our board is volunteers and our professionals work hard and I'm we have to spend money for our professionals to review what you do I prefer to consider that the bur's money is well spent and we do this once and we do it properly that's just my thought anybody else from the board AR aren't there other issues beond storm water management that we cover since we're already sitting here there are except if they can't satisfy this design it's we can't wait no no they're coming back so so they're gonna have to come back very hard stop so the question would be do we stop this now and come back again or they could you know we could hear testimony from the planning planning testimony and we can have death ask her questions and do all that so maybe the applicant goes home with with all of the missing stuff and then we can come back and actually have it be more efficient then I'm fine proceeding that way I just I just just a little frustrating right and I I I show you're frustrating that's how we feel it's was disrespectful of our time to come with no design no plan um and the board can do with that as they wish when they're making a thought process about how this happens because I think there are some opportunities for the board to indicate that they want to see uh additional information based on my comments or it might be something that you're comfortable having the professionals workout amongst yourself should there be any approval on and I appreciate that comment because when we get if we if the board CH I'm gonna ask the board how the rest of the board how they feel also before we move on and decide on this but if we do proceed tonight I've got to say I have only been on the board a few years those have been on longer I'm a little confused by the way that this is being presented usually one per one one one um what's the word I one witness gives us detail and then we have one professional response to that right now I feel like I've got three Witnesses respond and and we've got three professionals responding to that information does that make sense I'm saying it's a little a little different than our usual procedings yes but usually Advocates coming stuff ready to go so fair point all right so before we move on I would like to ask the rest of the board um how they feel about do they want us to proceed like Mr dner suggested that we look at the rest of the application at this point and basically table the engineering portion is that really like we asking them there suggestion you come back with that we can look at the red the the planning and the traffic aspects how does the rest anybody on the rest of the board Karen Can Am I heard yes we hear you uh this for for the gentleman from Chip Fil-A this is Adrien fusaro and I'm a new council member and a new council member representative to the planning board and my thought is right now um this is something that should have most likely been addressed I think you said December 19th Karen was when this first started and it continues to roll over my personal preference is that you come back completely everything ready to go and we do it in one shot instead of Peace meiling it and I'm just from personal work experience dealing with federal government if I went to Sam or some of these other organizations I deal with in Washington DC and had to come back three times I would get the door slammed in my face and that might sound rather harsh but the reality is is these are volunteers and um we have some very strong people Mr dsh in particular who if the expectation j j i I can appreciate and respect um You' giving him the grace to do some today and some tomorrow but just trying to get up to speed and pick up with this I'd rather see it all at once Karen instead of the back and forth comment appreciate that anybody else yeah but but but again an application is B based on you know they have three Witnesses this evening and very rarely do the three Witnesses overlap in their testimony on things and so if we're sitting here and we're saying that we're all volunteers we're all here it's 8:30 we've had meetings that have gone till midnight and 1 a so I'd like to hear what Beth has to say so they could come back they're gonna come back so to Adrian's point they're gonna come back but to have them come back and bet say oh I was really looking for this and they have it Beth is looking for guidance from us that so Beth can't proceed until until she hears from us so engineering aside it's sort of like okay let's look at the other elements of the application and so when we come back we have a packed agenda for the next couple of meetings so it we we're either here for another hour or another night we're here until 1 a.m so I hear your point it's not time for me it's not time it's it's the the accuracy of the work product and the completion of it now if I I'm new okay so so I'm just a dumb country lawyer so to speak for me it's not the time for me it's the the the professionalism and coming to us with a complete work product that we can look at I do believe that we could gain more by listening to best questions but then my expectation is is that's the final when they come back that's it or go back to the very beginning okay and I think Adrian um and I'm harsh and you've known me just enough to know that I'll leave it like that stop anybody else on Zoom um have any comments about what we're proposing to do like to continue and hear Beth's comments as well yeah I I think that honestly I think Adrian with I think that's a good idea so that they go away everything they need can we do that on a can we agree to do that on a look like a let's get the information out that they need rather than do a full is is there well I mean look they're jefff I think you're going to say let them fully flush this out not putting words in your mouth if we're going to do it fully flush it out but when you come back no more grace on this what I was going to say let their planner testify let them put what put on the record let let be ask the questions let them have the benefit of the board's discussion and question of anything that's remaining and then they go home and come back with what with a full plan and done would be my suggestion but I'm one of 100% agreement Jeff other than Adan have any um strong feeling that we shouldn't do what what um just proposed so having said that I feel that we should do what Jeff suggests and try and continue with as much hearing as we can tonight with the understanding that we we are not happy about the way this has proceeded especially considering your wish to be pushed to the top of the agenda tonight um uh but from M and um but we we will continue on that basis do you have a separate plan can I just you seem to be giv some planning testimony so we have a separate plan yeah and I can call our planner up to provide planning can I make a recommendation before we before you bring your planner up that I provide my uh commentary and review because I think a lot of them are actually uh more related to your engineers testimony because it's about the same design that's that's certainly fine yeah goad Okay so folks I issued a report on January 3rd this year there are a handful of comments that I think uh should be discussed this evening uh the first comment is is uh it's really a comment and something that I want to highlight to the board and then is that the pickup Canon be protrudes over the adjacent landscape violence and that's a concern I I think I think folks will recognize that being a concern but it's obviously going to impact the ability of plantings beneath it to uh to live my recommendation is that the applicant uh reconfigure that area to either adjust the canopy size or adjust the landscape island or a combination thereof to ensure that any plantings there have uh have access to Sun generally okay additionally uh uh my next item I'm looking at my report page six item 4.3 I believe this item was addressed in earlier testimony it was request to have the plans updated to uh to pick the lease area uh as well in I also had a request to better distinguish between the property line and the lease line it sounds like that's something that can be accommodated uh in anticipation of their uh upcoming change to the lease line I also had a comment regarding electric vehicle charging that would presumably be handled at the next hearing uh item 4.5 was addressing the lighting beneath the canopy the applicant has a canopy elimination ranging between 29 and about 51t candles and I want to be clear I think that this is an appropriate location for enhanced lighting you're going to have employees uh based on my experience at Chick-fil-A sort of darting between cars to get folks their food and you know no no uh negative judgment but that's that's one of the reasons why their drive-thru runs quite efficiently quite honestly but I think that lighting is a bit excessive and one of the just to give some context ATMs we just had that application for Flemington really I guess several months ago at this point but uh if you recall they had requested enhanced lighting because ATMs have a requirement for 10 fot candles for enhanced security so just for context these folks have a lighting that I think is in excess as to what is necessary for safety in this area and so I'd recommend that the lighting levels be brought down if the applicant is going to be submitting revised plans which it sounds like that's the board's Direction I think this is an opportunity for them to uh to perhaps eliminate that comment uh alog together the next item I wanted to address or excuse the next item in my memo was regarding hours of operation I heard the applicant at the outset say there will be no changes to hours of operation uh but I would like to understand uh how that might uh play out with the canopy lighting will the canopy lighting be off immediately upon closure of the restaurant or will that be uh a letting element that will remain on afterwards or perhaps over uh so that's something that can be answered U my next couple of items are in regard to the landscaping and so there are a few issues here the first is just simply that the applicant's proposing to remove some of the Landscaping uh that includes a portion of the green and the landscape bed that is directly along Route 202 and that certainly has has some visual impact that I think the board should be aware of as well as uh on the North side where the pickup window or pickup drive-thru Lanes will be located and so the board should recognize that as well um and so depending on how the canopy revisions result there may be further loss of of landscaping if you recall I just mentioned there's overlap between the canopy and the landscape bed but in addition to that uh based on their 2015 uh landscape plan the 2015 approval there were uh I believe four trees that were uh required that are no longer in place to be honest I'm not I'm not sure whether they were ever in place but I can tell you I can confirm that they're not there today and so I'm looking for the applicant to replace those strees uh as well as uh uh certainly confirmed that they'll remain in place throughout the life of what may be a new approval and then the last item I have was uh a recommendation for color renderings and color elevations for the new canopies I think that the canopy particularly on the well obviously on the North side uh is going to have a significant visual impact I think that's something that the board should evaluate to determine if you're comfortable with it and uh as well as from the front of the so and so uh certainly the additional that are necessary by virtue of the 2015 approval will help but I think the board should also consider what the impact from this new building or feature will be and if the applicant is coming back unless they have them receiving I would recommend renderings be shown to the board so that so the folks can evaluate that impact um and that's a very quick summary of all of my comments But ultimately uh at the outset I recomend recommended that the board go through this so that you can consider what additional information you're looking for I had recommended uh the renderings of the candes I think the board should weigh in on that and I think knowing that the applicant is coming back at it sub meeting the board should weigh in on whether or not you were looking for also a revised landscape plan and a uh revised lighting plan as well as of course any uh changes to the camp elevation we did have those thought they were submitted if they were uh I I didn't have versions in I I'm sorry sorry either way they're available um most of that I would defer to our represent chick regarding trees and um certainly lighting you can take another look at um but no I think that uh as always the comments sorry no I think that's very helpful to get that I mean I not was in the report very helpful uh and I don't see any problem addressing all of those comments and uh unless they Greg me to say no I I see any problems providing the colored rendering addressing the Landscaping making sure that the um the trees that were supposed to be there are installed and I think we've done the past a maintenance plan where it's in there it says you know there must be a landscaping maintenance plan so I think all that that is U certainly acceptable to the applicant and it's good that we we got that feedback so okay so um are you you have a plan plan but I guess the question is uh and I I think that's I thinking the same way is it is it better to have us come back have the storm water addressed have the revised need Landscaping lighting and then we have our planner say based upon the totality of that I support the justification for the increase in the aerious and the light well that's your choice eff that's your choice about how you want to play this I just want to uh confirm with that uh notion as oh why don't you are you gonna be tesy no I just I just want to um then it'll be done give the board the benefit of your work get your experience of expertise whether you've been accepted as professional plan sorry professional plan the boards or courts in the state certain um professional planner PP ASP both licens are Curr in good standing I testify on a weekly and daily basis last night was in new bronswick um with that being said um I've never been uh not uh accepted as professional my education Ruckers blin Masters in stud Regional planning concentration development Redevelopment certification of public policy Dow plan development is 54 Main Street Shad New Jersey I would Mr is a professional planer anybody your so thank you I think you have more so I just want to um reiterate I do agree as a planner you know um this is really an engineering issue um but I I do want to touch on the EV topic um this EV topic it it's raised it's been raised at several boards have been uh testified to I personally reached out to the DCA rep of Maria um and for clarification about the requirements on EB I know other planners have had similar concerns and that's kind you know the direction uh I was pointed to uh from my understanding from Maria at the DCA who is in charge of the DC uh EV if you do not create new parking stalls it is not applicable for Ev so if you have an existing shopping center and you're REM modifying the site if there's no net increase in parking stalls the EV regulations are not applicable and that's a direct conversation I had with her for clarity because I press had added to um so I just want to put that out there as we talk about the revised plans and expectations for what we're looking for um is my understanding that EV would not be F that's all I wanted to mention um for hedging that conversation in the future depending on team does so I um I think that the model ordinance that DCA put out is really unclear about this but in reviewing uh the law the the bill itself and speaking with Cara uh I actually I do agree I wish the model ordinance had been much more clear it doesn't talk about uh application to new parking spaces but if you read some of the other language and reference to to the bill it does seem to make clear that this is intended to be applying to new parking spaces rather than existing ones that maybe are as little as getting a new pavement or striping something um so I agree I I actually thought was trying to my report quickly to expedite than I thought that might be something that reached out to you guys afterwards um but I do agree with your opinion and then the other notion is I think we're over Park 30 uh 38 stalls approximately so um you know I'm pretty confident see behind they can come up with the appropriate landscaping and St management regulations and so forth I think we have adequate room and flexibility for that so I think we can come back and Council said put a bow on it and say you see and we can the best judg based on everything J B we don't have sure right so that being said does that concludes your testimony for this day um no I I think that uh unless no I I think that again the cheing i i since the frustration but I think it's it's beneficial getting the feedback having your professionals here having you here again I apologize it's it's horrible day but luckily it turned out a little nicer later but yeah we would look forward to coming back we'll work with your professionals on on the islands mainly storm water Landscaping lighting deal with this EV by the way I probably have attended how many seminars on what it means and I don't think anybody's really figured it out yet I do agree with the assessment because we just went through this couple days you don't so with that said yeah I think we'll conclude our presentation and I guess par what we would ask is that it be carried um that requirement further knows but certainly if we trigger any substantial changes to the plan any changes in variances uh reintensification the project we would certainly notify right so then in terms of timing talk um I I don't know I'm feeling that this match is what you feel normally we at this point if we do this we would try to set a new date but have have we have to set some sort of date so having said that um and I want you to consider the redesign that we the design of the storm water right and satisfying but also that we to have adequate time for our professionals to then review your new um your new submission um what you also have one of the um queries on I think it was on Beth's both was the and somebody testified to it earlier about the um lease being updated the lease being updated because would it be best for that to have concluded also before you come forward so that that can be on the plans or was that a date very least the proposed line should be yeah we'll make that that's the suggested date when that's I just thought that might trigger us for a potential date but when then when they want to come back basically the 27 2 got Central centr St 12 26th of March or the 9th of April the absolute if they can get their design completed and submitted to bar and for that the March 26 date and then if for some reason all appear and all the bu offs the board board professionals ahead in mind do you feel that you have everything we're going to need that stuff you know at least a few weeks yeah no problem yeah you need several weeks to be able to review it effectively and then get it to us too so that we can review what so that's no problem okay and if I can just so clear so that may 2015 report we're going to be able to provide based upon the consent that was provided when I get by Council when I get some documentation you're comfortable with I I'll have the document I have I don't have it electronic I have to scan it get it you that's not a problem and if you need a formal letter I can I I think at this point I hate to be difficult but I think at this point that would probably be helpful get that over to you May and then you're obviously addressing storm water issues with revised plans um the board I think I'm hearing this I just want it to be clear for everybody here you want to see a revised Landscaping plan yes revised lighting PL um and revised canopy redesign as we talked about anything else the what was the um renderings you I think they don't I don't the current right um does anybody have anything else they want to say this exactly because I think that's the goal they're going to take that time come back to 26 I think you know just one of one of it would make the presentation go a little bit easier if you had a thumb drive with all your exhibits so that we can just share from folks who participating remotely usually it's not the majority of the board but but certainly for members of public participating remotely would be helpful to have it on um that just to be able to share no problem yeah don't do it slides it has to be PDF separately don't work yeah we'll get it we'll get it this parks while I just want to check with the rest of the board if they have anything that they want this applicant to bring forward to that March date that we haven't mentioned already anybody I have a question um just as far as um extending the time for the uh board to make a decision I should have said that yes we'll consent and I'll put it in writing okay thank you the appropriate time and Jay did you have any comments or questions or things for them to BR no I have nothing further I think I mentioned some of it when I went through my memo I think it self exlan in your m carrying it to March what March 26 26 March 26th and we're going to have a submission what 3 weeks before that's the bo normal days that's fine only because I got a feeling it's gonna be somewhat substantial not just going be mov line got the time to make the revisions that's we've consulted that's why we pushed it around than 126 yeah so just to be aware if B doesn't have it by that day we you okay thank you very much for your time well thank you so much and again appreciate you coming out on Snowy morning and beautiful afternoon safe travel home thank you than you have a great night carara or or Karen did you want to make the the announcement to carry that officially to the 26th or is that sufficient I thought we did but we make the announc that application be formally to the March 26 hearing date without further notice same room same time all right continue with our meeting um as I said earlier item 12 public hearing Central Station application 20225 is p till the March 12th meeting and no further notice ired um right chair items the next meeting is February 27th our regular meeting we will have completeness this is Hun tone documents but this this is an application for on Main Street for an accessory structure and and an appeal um at they're filing at both at the same time they as they app for a perm for that yeah any to much anyway complet this for that um public hearing for Golden Heart homes LLC here today um and we then the other items we've just looked at from about March so um we will also have the item that Jeff mentioned earlier the report annual report so if everyone from the board can make sure they've read the annual report so that we can discuss that at the next meeting um I just wanted to add on um e sent a membership list out e did you get responses on for that we can send out the official membership list for everybody for contact um yeah I did hear back from um I think I'm missing a few um phone numbers possibly and I I'll I'll send something back out um to those that I still need a little bit more information for um do you think that we would have the ordinance on the fences by then for the next meetings what council do with that like what best information to wait yeah I think the next step the zoning officer and I need toate on a revised version okay so it's possible but weit like know had that as and I could have find it anywhere but you did thank good um I also wanted to check with our new members e sent information about training do new members have that set up she left it up it's been up the whole time I don't know if she wants to oh she I want to check she's been on actually she's a class doesn't mean my apologies I just want to check that the people who were training information by I set that up um it's yeah Melissa signed up um I didn't um whether um Rose or Adrian um want to you know look at the schedule and let me know what works better for them I will be looking continue to look at the schedule okay I'm going to send something out tomorrow there was also one at raron Valley College um that um some there's not the New Jersey planning officials was putting out but um that's also a possibility that it uh covers the required mandatory Blast for that for all new members actually as a as a class three um classies are not required but it's always um you know it's I would like to take it yes send it over to me regardless thank you a few uh certifications for my career at the same time okay helps to deify some of what we do um I also we're also moving forward with the checklist item that was great last time but we're not going to we're not going to do it now B we can do it at the next meeting that'll come up at the next meeting right um just wanted to let the board members know that was coming up um Bob's been working on that and he's going to give a report next time prepared to do it tonight it's a strictly upset board as long as that I'm just well the only thing is if if Central would but Central AR so I think we have time at the next meeting to possibly have two short meeting quite nice right um so I appreciate you being a being ready to do it tonight but I think we sent went out you sent that right to the board yeah I ask the board to look at those think about those rather than doing this as a committee I'd like everybody to look at it and everybody have comments and see where we think we want this to go from those comments then um Bob can work with the other professionals and if we choose to move forward that way um we'll have and do it that way um so please look at that for the next meeting um I think that's all I've got does anybody else have anything they want to raise that we didn't talk about right now let me know yes just a just a question um the application that we just went over how did I don't remember how we deemed that complete wait a minute wait a minute we can't talk about it when I'm here okay but I'm talking more a process um do we maybe the checklist is going to get us there but you know having stuff that's not complete and moving forward um it just seems like it's a waste of time and sometimes it seems like an applicant might rely on that where they can move forward with not having things complete and I think we bend over backwards for some applicants that maybe the process need to be tighter just the the what just procedurally from a completeness standpoint that application was deemed complete the issu in general are being completed it's this we deal with substance it's not the fact that we were lacking information it was fact that the information that was given was not compliant so then as we understand you cancern on a general level and mirror it on a general level um and we'll move towards changing what we need to do on a general level is that General level thanks Dennis but if I could not everything can be solved by the checklist right the checklist will get us some of the way part of it also has to do with reviewing the Prof the review letters of our professionals that's that's part of I've been on the other side of table where a board and Boards professionals have asked for a number of different items that very well may be important when they get to the hearing phase but I've made the argument you cannot hold me to that for completeness it's not in your checklist so we can move forward there now God help you if you appear before the board without addressing those items at that point but it's not the checkl you don't want to run into that and in the general level is it also true it also depends on the appli check too they have a large part to play in this so different applicants come with different attitudes right um the whole the idea behind the checklist is to make sure that our professionals and the board has what they need to begin their analysis it's so so it's a list of things we need and so the things we need are landscape plans and and lighting plans and site plans and yada yada y yada and so if they satisfy having submitted those items checklist isn't going to fix crappy design you wrote it out right I mean that's just hypothetical that that you can't that will never get fixed by a checklist that's right the appli cover them cover themselves by putting something something down for everything our professionals then produce volumes questions lack of substance yeah I would that was like pretty I feel like that like when my shortterm or short long-term that was pretty unique I think in this I don't I didn't hear that so I we didn't to talk generally not specifically [Music] sorry sorry can you hear me now I can hear you but we we can't talk about a specific application when the applicant is not here that's why we were yelling at you apologies for yelling in your ears you got your earbuds on we can talk offline we want to discuss I wasn't sure if I was being General enough but I wasn't thank you open public meetings R why don't we move on thank you um all right item 14 the bills were did I see bills I didn't see b i no there was there was a couple of them um from um last Monday but um I thought I would be there today um to have some additional ones and I will have them in two weeks um item 15 do we need to go into executive session anything um okay then item 16 do I have a motion to adj meeting move all in favor say thank you stop record stop recording I