[Music] bring the pleas this is the Tuesday May 14th 2024 planning board adjustment oft um please rise Cong to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which stands one nation under God indivisible for liberty and justice for all Mee is called to show to the provisions of the public meetings act both adequate and electronic notice of this meeting has been provided by way of publication in the Hunan County Democrat and CER news newspapers honor about February 3rd 2024 and January 30th 2024 and April 4th 2024 in addition notice of the meeting was posted at the b f to Municipal Building located at Par Avenue Park Avenue and any handicap accessible entrances there too on the municipal website provided to the municipal clerk and distributed to all persons if any requesting copy of the same this meeting is being recorded with both audio and video and may read this meeting is a Judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to the issues that are relevant to what the board might to consider on reaching a decision and the Corum approprate to hearing must be maintained at all times can we do the roll C please mayor per here councilwoman fararo here Mr campan is excused Miss GI here Mr Hill here Mr dasna here Mr cook here M Whitman here Mr Sino miss swingle here M Mario um is absent Mr E here show Miss kazinski is excuse we have um Mr John Galina um representing here for as an attorney for thank you is mcmanis here Mr clerico here and Mr trapman is excused thank you item one on our agenda is public comment um for any items not currently on the agenda are there any members of the public that wish to make a comment at this time don't see any in the um audience here and I see n No Hands raised online move on to item two M comments uh so last night uh the Liberty Village Package passed the council um their pilot uh ordinance the plan Amendment ordinance and the um resolution uh of the um basically the contract with the r developer so I would anticipate it's going to be cont texting com soon to get a date certain sister he's here he's here but the ordinance then have to be referred to thank right Council comment no common ready for with you okay thank you um item four HPC comments Dennis we have today our HPC meeting tomorrow so I don't have anything on that but I just want to mention once again that we have our house tour on Saturday June 1st from 11: to 5: if anyone wants to volunteer you get a free ticket so we're excited about it it should be great thank you um item five profession reports I'm going to excuse Mr Bina um but Beth do you have anything for us today be going on since the last meeting um I don't think so um I okay um okay all right thank you um Mr CL NOC today thank you all right uh item six is approval of the minutes from the April 1th 2024 regular Meeting those were distributed to everybody everybody had a chance to see them any comments on them or amendments need to be made before we can vote on them see can I have a motion to approve the minutes please thank you have a second thank you take yeah mayor car yes counc woman fararo yes Miss giin yes Mr Hill yes dasain Mr cook abstain Miss whitesman yes Mr Sino and Miss SW yes thank you all right um item seven um is listed as the public hearing for works for Properties LLC application 201905 um with the agreement of the app this matter is going to be carried to the June 25th 2024 meeting um they have to re notice for that date don't they we announced tonight that uh there was previous notice sent this not will be carried by just announcing okay this application will be Carri to the June 25th 2024 meeting beginning at 7M no further notice will be given okay thank you for the plan make sure you got that right um when do they have to send new three weeks prior to the 25th soon they agree to the date so we can presume that they're ready but and they provided extension of time for the board acts to end of August right excellent thank you um I do want to change the agenda around shall I ask to do it at this point to move item um I'd like to ask for a motion to change the um agenda just to move item 13 to before current item 12 so that um the party is not paying for um Council for all our meeting while we have our discussion did you make that motion no I'm asking than I hear motion I was second I've been told I'm not supposed to make motions myself so I was asking for a motion so thank you fa no no um we're just going to go through the resolution first so we'll go through um going to go through 8 n 10 and 11 um so item eight is resolution for chickf in um application 20237 that was distributed and been agreed with the all parties I understand that have been agreed with the email me yeah I had asked car to make a change on page four the second paragraph under number two it was changed but it it doesn't read right to me it's a factual statement but I I believe it's incorrect what's that say yeah it's talking about the um construction of the um basically the the drive-thru is creating a need for additional parking which it's not not I thought that we didn't didn't need they're actually over that parking wasn't it says that the project itself is is under the ordance is creating a demand for they're saying they meet the amount of parking but they're saying it's creating a need for additional parking which doesn't make any sense but did we clarify that later on in the res does it clarify it later because there was definitely testimony about the par a huge thing on that side right yeah they made the other they're they're eliminating 11 spaces they have more than enough for you know based on uses they had oh not May well no no they saying it's increasing it from 104 to 109 that wasn't the test not SC for not intend to find use they not I think what they the if I'm remembering the testimony it was they were reducing the number of parking spaces from 109 to 104 by the creation of the lane but there's 144 already on the property and it meets the need and there was no variance needed less than there actually was so w fact incorrect statement don't any just so can we change it with with not as the man suggested does it maybe ask car for clarification if the board agrees take it have it take it out I don't I think we need to I think you there needs to be a sentence in there but I would my proposal would be to say the additional Lane would decrease the parking on site from 109 to 104 and 144 parking spaces are currently increase the this is doesn't you're right it doesn't work could you see the the parking is proposed to decrease from 109 to 104 area 144 spaces are on the site well that's that's not even a true statement because they're taking 11 spaces now so since it's only a factual statement why not just eliminate it has it serves no purpose when you think of it's the application right but think think is this describes the application first paragraph the lease area there where they had to go through the lease area they worked on storm water management so the thing is the additional Lane would increase the parking requirement 109 from 144 from 104 blah blah blah blah like it's it's almost irrelevant the storm water paragraph that's to pass that talks about the elimination of the we space right the only well actually I think it's just the word increase we just need to change the additional would decrease the parking requirement from 109 10 and 144 parking spaces are currently providing on the profit that's all true so just the word decrease I don't think that's accurate because the driveth lane doesn't have an impact on a parking requirement for the site on the parking parking requirement the lane just the fact um the construction of the lane they're knocking out nine parking spaces and then you're taking out two additional parking spaces to reduce the imperious coverage to address the storm so they're eliminating 11 spaces they're not providing any additional demand for right what I didn't go back to look to see what the final numbers were um but what they ended up with they ended up with 144 on the site as a whole yeah so what why not just say um there are Curr they are 144 spaces on provide it's just describing and then the paragraph not the next paragraph but paragraph after talks about the reduction yeah right yeah yeah I don't think the app I can't imagine there' be there's nothing controversial about it it's just wrong so why not I mean isn't that a a very minor change read additional inrease the parking requirement from 109 to 104 period increases it from I would do anything my recommendation would be there are currently currently provided on the property are 144 parking spes I'm sorry I think we might also want to site what's in the lease area I think 104 is within the lease area that's what it's trying to say right yeah and we need to then we need to rephrase that sentence because 104 is not used elsewhere in the resolution so it decreases the parking requirement within the least no number of SP decreases the parking spaces within the lease area from 109 to 104 and 144 spaces are currently provid on property have we got the numbers wrong yeah yes we could delete that paragraph that single sentence paragraph and to the last paragraph on page four or elsewhere I just note that that paragraph cites the 11 parking spaces so we could s we could stat so say you want to say how many states you end up with and that's more than what was required wasn't that later on in testimony and then in um what we actually because this is just the introductory paragraphs yeah but this is the statement of find this is actually we we have we need somewhere in the resolution the testim to capture the testimony about the number of spaces that are being provided because it doesn't have it anywhere else then I'd like to suggest that we let we we table this to the next meeting unfortunately and let car we really want to be really clear on that it's not I don't want to remove it without her knowledge I'll say so right now she wrote The Resolution right and and removing it and removing it would also we' also want to talk with the app exactly we want to make sure this is been checked by them also was that or do we still have time within time limits to do it at the next meeting does anybody else feel strong any other way about that that way forward I'm just feeling uncomfortable with car not able to be here um yeah she wrote it the only thing it does is I mean it's it's a right our next meeting is um 11 have meeting four weeks we don't have a meeting lastek yeah oh gosh the so the only thing that it does again if you think of Chick-fil-A right we all want them to be able to build and and be successful so I'm not sure what the I guess this is a question for our attorney what would the harm be if we eliminated that line and and voted on the resolution I mean if it would just basically have to agree um that's the change they want to make to their vote but I just want to remind the board that they came here begging a favor it was a rush and then they delayed everything by three months so it wasn't that much of a rush to me that all I'm saying is it's clearly something on that sentence is incorrect and I think it's just everything in that sentence is the 109 the 104 other than 144 spaces are that is right we're looking at the plan see what they said then I would just eliminate the yeah I'd rather be um and this and this did go backwards and forwards today as well which is what worries me is that things were to be clear about the changes that were made to it and I I don't feel comfortable speak of car on that one came out at 457 justable and everything that was discussed during it today got captured [Music] corly yeah we don't have their attorney in attendance exactly yes so maybe we don't have the most current right I'm thinking I don't made they made some changes so I I think I think um my my personal view is that we should table it to the next meeting have Clarity on um what uh what what was discussed today and added today because that is an important statement to make sure we get that right right I don't want to I don't want to have a resolution in place that doesn't have that written now that could be important in the future Mak especially because it's based on the lease area which might change in the future it's not a tax slot that we're going to be able to find in 15 years from now necessarily and and also one of the conditions we're imposing is documentation of the the Lo area to reflect new stuff so this actually does matter it does matter so yeah um so that's my suggestion anybody have any objections to that no let's do that all right let's move on then to item n resolution for Central Station this is for application 20235 4ot 7 this was also issued no this was she been working on it but um did not no it's not that's not ready is it that neither is uh the next one for your smile for your smile so there we go we've got three resolutions for next time again so that's item 10 um is table to the next meeting also um item 11 s s refund is 66 C llcc block 38 Block 14 this was an informal discussion suggestion which was withdrawn by the afcan yes so they're not never coming forward so we're just returning their es yeah they requested the esort to be return um I reached out to all of the bo professionals everything any outstanding invoices have been paid and they have M that we can fun now this was a um even though it didn't come to the board it was a d variant identified as a d variance and intensification so I don't know if um Mar or is this this was Broad Street we never came forward never came forward but if it's a d varies they can't have but it never came forward with exactly and that was the the discussion so they were denied and informal so they never T to for um so it just kind of okay but they're and they are not planning on making application they made a a letter withdrawing any application and then a a request for return of es all right so do we need a we need a motion to return that exper second Mr J yes Mr cook yes M giin yes Mr Hill yes Miss whitesman yes Mr Sabino yes yes than all right so um as amended we're going to move was item 13 pronoun that I pronounce it AR Iron Works LLC application 20244 block 28 a this is uh one of our it's a certificate of pre-existing non-conforming news conditional use that is come from one of these things again through our construction professional construction Cod enforement code enforcement offic Z officer thank you um and it comes to us um is there a feeling that decision Gina this is an unusual one and just on the tech we don't have um checklist for this so just let us know what we need to think about yeah to prove that this use predated was only or that it's a the nonconforming use that would be as they say grandfather name and then um if that's not proven you proceed with conditional use is that accur so you're saying that it's it's a conditional use in that zone provided you need all the conditions right right so so is the if you like woman and I accused from this or not are we refused from this or not at this time they're just trying to establish himself as a preious noncon use if they're at the point where they need um they want to go for conditional use and don't meet all the conditions then it becomes a Devar we're not asking for D3 variants which would be a deviation from the conditional use standard in the alternative so both of you would be able to participate in this application um you want to give my little Spiel please do and then we willfully understand what's going on here Steve grenberg attorney in Flemington on behalf of the applican RQ iron work LLC essentially what happened here is that aruin we're only here for completeness but um they moved into the space in February of last year The Zing ordinance was changed in September um thereafter there was some back and forth with the zoning officer and construction official when they wanted to do some interior improvements and they said well you're no longer a permited use um they had met with Mr Klein and and the construction official I believe before the zoning ordinance had changed um had entered into the lease in Fe you'll recall zoning permanent application at the time um that was developed sometime later in uh the year of 2023 so our application here for this evening uh is for a certification of the pre-existing non-conforming use as being a metal working uh permitted use but even if you apply the new ordinance and you don't believe that we pre-existing non-conforming use under the new ordinance light industrial is a permitted conditional use in the zone subject to three conditions which we can easily meet um so what I would like to do because you don't have a checklist we provided you with uh basic information with respect to the site I kind of know what this board is going to want to see which is photographs and you're going to want to know what's going on in inside the building we'll be able to provide that to you at the time of the hearing um I know Mr clerico wants an identification on the actual plan of what space is going to be used and I've been before this board on this property previously so you're very familiar with 47 map um I'm asking for you to deem the application complete this evening and because you don't have a checklist requirement on it to even measure our application and allow us to move forward for a public hearing on June 11th the um I've done this on the last fact just the third one now of this type of application so I'm using a format of right out of the ordinance about information that's supposed to accompany all applications uh and basically there's only a few things were missing here um again commic provide this the location of where within the where this tenant would occupy space within the building that some documentation as to that that was item uh A9 um certification on payment of taxes item D that that should be provided um G was the um certification of the corporate disclosure it was provided for the owner but not for the applicant yeah I think it was it was actually on the application form and um on the application form it certified that the applicant was um that Elizabeth TX sah is 10% owner um so I think divided that then you could maybe respond back at some point so I I didn't see it I'm not saying it wasn't there I think it's actually on the actual application form itself have to beer okay and maybe a response back to here and that's where it is or if it's not there then find it Ser indicating where the tendency occupies within the building um there's a uh there's a survey of the property it's not it's not signed or it's not sealed the board um yeah I said given nature of the application the board could wave that requirement but that again be following this aspect of the ordinance that that would be a waiver um again there's no keymap here so you're going to get a certified list of adjoining property owns but you have no document to compare it against looking to see where somebody actually lives um that should be relatively easy to that's you you provide you recent subsequently provided a 200 foot list I think yeah I can provide the 200 foot list copy something so some somebody's in the ordance I so and so would be okay yeah that would be appropriate um and again it's you know there's no schedule here on the zoning but you're going to you say it's a conditional use and there's three things you're gonna have to document so that be part of your presentation yeah there and just so that the board's aware the three um conditions for light industrial are the hours of operation and site delivery shall be between 7:00 a.m. and 9:00 p.m. done the outdoor storage of material shall be prohibited done all activities with the exception of employee and visitor parking shall be within an enclosed building done those are your three standards so they're not very honorous I can tell you yes we're going to comply with those three conditional standards um so it it really is pretty straightforward and the last one have a Cy the zoning map is to where this property is located in relationship to the to to the Zone say um and I don't know Steve you were copied on this but there was communication from the bur fire safety to the addressed to the board but I don't necessarily see that you were copied on this I I did get a copy of that I understand that those are all issues that once the the applicant hopefully gets the use gets determined that they're going to have to file for the appropriate construction permits um and provide architecturals to the satisfaction of the construction official and the Fire official but that really has nothing to do with the use issue I don't know if this is sorry but it does I mean we don't know what they do there is it open flame is it well I'm going to provide you with all that testony yeah but you want us to declare that this use is okay now and our Marsh recomended what he said in there that he thought we should get before well you basically saying he didn't have enough comment but he asked for plans to I can't remember what he said something about going to somebody somebody he's saying that before you can issue any type of building permit or construction of permit for the work that was done inside the space that he's going to need architectural plan so we understand that the first this is one of those things that's like the chicken or the egg okay in order to get construction permits you have to be C you need a zoning permit in order to be determined to be a permitted use we're arguing that in February when we were meeting with everybody we were a permitted GS and the ordinance changes in September and they say well you're no longer a permitted use do you have a permit from February you have a sign permit that was we don't because the bur didn't have a zoning permit application time what I'm going to suggest right we don't have a checklist for this but so we can decide what we want and I certainly would like to feel that I'd like to see I'd like to see you prove in some way shape or form you feel that you had me to JS in February he included he included in the materials that we saw correspondents the emails with Jeff Pine the discussion with the architect there was a a fair amount of documentation about this conversation that happened months and months ago right but I I and I I agree there's a lot I I I don't feel comfortable with it yet I understand I I certainly also want um light industrial like so they're saying that you can prove that you're going to be open certain times but I would think the definition of what light industrial is seems to be an issue because from from that correspondence I'm get I'm reading in the subtext of it that the fire marshal Etc doesn't feel that this is white industrial um and therefore not permitted so I I want some clarity how we can what can they give us to help us determine that I just want to be clear that the Fire official should not be determin what is light industrial okay I'm saying I have concern from the conversations but I'm looking to you to guide me what we ask to to be able to prove this uses license yeah absolutely I think that what the the Fire official has asked for may be absolutely necessary for him to be able to do his job but a lot of the items in here I don't think are relevant to the question of the use you know he's asking about um carbon monoxide knockbox uh uh architectural plans for the purpose of more inance all that for the purpose of fire safety and I'm not doubting the need for those documents in order for him to be able to certify that the building is going to be safe enough to cve but I think for our purpose for um for a use determination it's really questions about what activities are ongoing in that building um and then to the extent that we find it might not be a permitted use then they'll have to demonstrate you know that they need conditions right but it's really more uh operational if you will operational information Asos to S inform but it's operation on site Sur we have to consider that those operations on in this particular reading of the fire also like correct me if I'm wrong but it sounded like there was a debate about whether to allow this business to go in there and then the business proceeded to do all kinds of work without permits so so whether they needed a permit or not I'm not sure they were going to ask for permit because they didn't ask from for electrical work for construction yeah they got nailed off and and I guess the problem here again is that in in order to get a construction permit you need a zoning permit and at the time that they were meeting with the zoning officer there was no Zoning for they just went ahead and did work without getting any at alling they they did do some work and I don't know the particulars of it I don't know to what I don't know to what extent architectural plans were sub but in order for us to move forward both from the applicant standpoint and the bureau's standpoint in order to um first deal with the situation you have to deal with whether the issue of whether the use is a permitted use or a permitted conditional use in the zone and that's what this board is going to determine once that's determined then I can work with the construction Department in in order to make sure that everything or anything that is done has been done or will be done meets their construction Cod where you and I are differing here because the way I'm reading this is that the applicant didn't get a zoning permit so it felt like no permits were necessary at all so whether they needed one or not it sounds like whether what I'm not sure I can say there was a pre-existing allowed use here because they ignored all permits including ones that are required by the state of New Jersey for electrical work and construction work so saying that you didn't have a process in place to me is negated by the fact that the CATE of New Jersey had a process in place for construction work that was also ignored so or ignored so it's hard for me to say that they were an okay use to go in there and that they were already pre-existing when it sounds like they just basically did what they wanted to do and you don't believe me after you hear the the testimony and that's your your feeling on it then we go to the second part in the alternative which is whether this is a permitted conditional use in the zone and under your current zoning ordinance and whether we meet those three standards and my proofs respectfully I think are going to show that yes this type of use would be a permitted conditional use under the zone and whether you're you feel that they did something wrong in the past and it wasn't a pre-existing permitted conditional use under the current zoning it's a permitted conditional use and we meet those three standards and if then if you find that then we Rectify all the situation with the construction department so there's a there's a me we're we're here okay this is the way to resolve the situation for the buau and for the applicant um while maintaining a viable business within the buau but right now we're only here for completes those things being said I still come back to be and Mr Galina's Galina um advice on what documents will should we ask for in your opinion so I don't to achieve that I don't disagree with uh the items that Bob Bob has talked about my only distinction that I was trying to make is a lot of what they're asking for are uh in the fire officials memo are intended to confirm whether or not the building is not a permitted use or was a permitted use at any time time it's really whether or not the building can be occupied safely as is or without you know without additional information and so just for the the board's information it there's a scenario out there where the board finds that this was or is somehow is a permitted use but they can't occupy the building because the buildings not have to code and there's significant information improvements that need to be made those two things can happen within within this process but they're two separate processes so our Focus right now is what do we need just to figure out what's going on in the building how does it relate to the zoning org and then the next step is the applicant may have quite a challenge in front of him to submit the necessary information to acquire the necessary permits to actually in yeah okay so other than what um what Mr gromberg has already suggested he's going to bring forward is there anything else that we should ask for in order to prove that loal we can ask for or does anybody on the whatever ask whatever you're going to bring forward you need to establish when you need to have that in place before you have a scheduled hearing you said our next meeting is four weeks or something Steve do you plan on submitting the um the material or the testimony for prior nonconforming use and then proceeding with a conditional use if that's found to be correct not so it'll be a two-step process it would be at the same me so you would then also simultaneously submitting a conditional use application we already did we already sought the relief for a certification of a pre-existing non-conforming use or any the alternative a conditional use permit think there was an application that went with the conditional use approval which was submitted yes with an addendum an amended addend my client just so real they filed the original application then they hired me and I read ites anybody on the board feel that need to bring B besides the certification that their taxes are paid does that include sewer water as well uh we normally yet thank you uh and just Steve on on your application identifies one of the owners with 60% interest so it doesn't really say who who the other owners are if that's what you're referring to as no I'm talking about the that's what I'm talking there was a disclosure statement for the for the owner of the property but the applicant is just listed as um Elizabeth extera 60% interest okay you see only one working I'll clarify so then at this point Bob your recommendation is well you want to do it as a you know conditionally with information to be provided is set a date for for that prior to hearing it would be a certification on payment of taxes owner disclosure of the applicants corporate you know ownership thing [Music] um the um Rec they're going to give you some sort of a key map some sort of a zoning map they've already given you some they already given you I believe uh to foot list um uh and then whatever documentation Steve is going to put in advance of what he's going to present here whatever that might be in relationship to the conditional use yeah all right so just referencing um Bob your the stuff we're going to talk about later in the checklist one of our items in there is provide ser and review LS from the fire department rescuees board Fire Marshal and the police department is it appropriate for us to ask for those in this application given the concerns that we have well um are we allowed to ask for that testimony and hear like that he that we would be generally if it's a PR unconforming you so they can prove that that that testimony wouldn't be need if it was something in connection with the conditions um perhaps testimony would be needed to clarify certain things and put certain um safe in place as a as professionals they can be sitting right there other planing boards like Township do that their Fire Marshal sits right there at PL board meetings I got to be honest with you I'm in Ran Township and I don't ever recall a fire marshall sitting in the the they on Wednesday night for the hearing on the warehouses maybe on that particular application come but was that's not an everyday situation where the fireform Prett much End discussion would show would we the build was the zoning was Prior zoning was you know what the building was being used as before ordinance was changed right if they didn't actually weren't if they weren't allowed to actually exist by because they were cited for certain aspects what I'm hearing is a citation which we're just doing some work without perits right but it's by a safety work that's my my that really doesn't in my opinion doesn't really establish whether or not it was PR use right so what you're saying is we're here as a board to discuss the use it's not a site plan we're not we're not hearing site plan we we're hearing use and that's we from Beth as well but if we but if we if we this is hypothetical if we don't if we end up not deeming it pre-existing and we go forward with a conditional use application correct consider those factors generally I think this board has a additional use site plan requirement yeah I mean we we've been here before with this site okay where we did a use variance application with the same material that I submitted on this application where it's an existing an existing building with an existing space that everything is taking place within that space and this is even probably less intense than what that Golden Heart application less intense by people but I certainly don't think it's less intense safety onse I think imp even impacts that application in if you brought that one up that we certainly don't want to we don't want to uh end provide you with the testimony about exactly we don't want to um affect their safety of the applic that you're mentioning um that part of the space in that building if you comp with conditions you're entitled to approval now the certain conditions Z based that reasonably required as conditions of approval yeah that's why I'm conditions but isn't a condition of approval all outside agencies which would in which would include the fire department yeah but we can be we can be particularly specific we choose to be we can we could have them advisors just like we have our other professionals advisors on very specific requirements for a particular don't they have their own requirements the construction Department that's why we have to meet the building yeah I just never I'm not sure I ever remember us saying yeah but what does the fire department really want that's up to them that's up to them basically you know most of it state regulations right in order to get a CO we need and we will need to accomplish whatever building permits are are required and bring this prop this space into compliance that's a completely different issue than the use issue of whether this use which I'll provide testimony about qualifies as either a pre-existing non-conforming use as a metal working facility or as a light industrial under your current zone so that's really what we're here for I can give you that basic information based upon the completeness has been recommended even though your check you don't have a checklist requiring it I want to give you that inform information in order for you to feel comfortable but I don't respectfully you know this board doesn't usually get involved into construction code issues that's why you have a construction code official that's why we need to meet all of those requirements um and you know this is just a useage respect AG dis yeah how how do we prove acquir on performance use have to bring in you know testimony or records to show what was going on on the site theage change uh be able to see we would be able to see for example uh prior um waivers we' be able to see um prior use that would would have fit like you could another documentation and testim to show that it predated the ordinance predated the ordinance okay and so we just we actually just did this if you think I forget if you wereing in on the dental application there I moved for because that was very detailed about what why it was how far back they went all the work that they existed here since 1997 yeah so they pulled all of their history and so what they submitted was um in that case burrow documentation as well as some other additional documentation that they that I gu the owners had created over the years to demonstrate that that particular building had been uh the office user Dental use depending on the time period since 1960s or so and so they had you know official documents at different points of time that demonstrated a use at the specific time when we were comparing that to the ordinance at uh at the time of the change essentially and that's sort of a format for what we're going to do with Mr renberg's client we're going to ask what documentation do you have that demonstrates that that particular use was occup occupying that particular area prior to the September 2023 zoning ordinance change and if if the board is satisfied that that documentation shows that the tenant occupied that space at that time then you're basically obligated to to indicate so through granting a certificate of a non-conforming use now and and if you don't agree with that and then my alternative argument is that under your current zoning it's a permitted conditional use subject to those three conditions which are I read into the record so respect I think we get there either way and and we'll provide that proof to you get to a discussion we'll be having a discussion about the meet of it currently we just want to identify what we want because we don't have a checklist and because we don't have that we want to make very clear what we want we don't want to come to that discussion and say actually we want you to provide this we need to tell them today yeah so that's what we need to do that's what I'm ask right that's what I'm asking and everyone to say what do you need them to bring to this meet the next stage and to be fair you know the board will have to based its decision on the documentation that so in terms of the certificate of nonconform Bo to base its decision based on the documentation and testimony provideed and so there's no specific checklist for this and frankly the documentation that would be necessary is going to be different for every for every uh certificate that's that's applied for because the timing the circumstances different so it's really incumbent upon Mr grber and his client to submit the documents and or provide the testimony that the board can rely upon but it's it's not something that I can identify now I mean submit the the little forms and documents that show the tenant was there but exactly what those are are not it's not listed in mpal land use law it's really based on what's available and what's appro circumstance we we already have submitted a lot of that documentation as Mr Dasha pointed out including I believe the leasee agreement that was entered into in February showing that the space was leased um and certain other documentation so um I'll review the matter to provide you with f proofs about it but I don't understand what our burden of proof is okay I have a this is the tech my head wants to blow up over this too just thinking about it but it's for you Mr Bina um so if they went in in February they couldn't get a zoning an occupation permit to occupy right they didn't get one they entered into the lease anyway they did Construction in there anyway so they really weren't approved by the buau how are they then an existing use now you can have an existing use decide to do renovations right but but if they were in approved existing use because they never got an occupy for if if they if they predated the orders use predated the ordinance change then they are an existing use if somebody wants to go and do Renovations on something that even an existing preexisting nonconforming use they don't get permits that's a violation going on on the site you know at the time the ordinance was changed I think the get it wrong correct me but if they don't if they never had a CO then they never were existing because they wer actually officially they never officially allowed in there they were never officially allowed in there and they went in anyway how can they say and that's is hypothetical I'm just looking how do they say they were pre-existing use when as far as we were concerned they never existed there if the and a permit were required and they never got those things technically then they were never a valid use okay that's they and that's that's why we have a public hearing so we can ask all these questions present all the testimony and whether you agree that it's a pre-existing non-conforming use or not or whether you find well if it's not a pre-existing non-conforming use it meets our current ordinance the use as a conditional use subject to those free standards that's why we hold a public par and you know I don't want to debate all of those issues tonight because I don't have my Witnesses here to present that testimony I haven't marked anything into evidence you might not agree with it I understand that I'm just trying to understand but but we're only here for completeness tonight this just and and there is no check and what we just spoke of said although we don't usually have those people here as our professionals but to advis us would it be appropriate in their situation Mr I've never seen outside officials come in for a uh well we haven't but we we're is there a reason we come do that the thing is usually you get correspondence from them we can have them here we are allowed to invite in any professionals we want from The Bu so if you want to invite the fire marshal or the construction officer or whoever it is chairwoman you have the right to do that so just because we don't normally do it doesn't mean we can't do it TR was not here today I wouldn't consider it in other situations but I feel with the the nature of what I've read so far I'm not clear and I feel I need guidance on that I guess but I'm asking you Mr so long as our construction officials are only talking about the use not the fire suppression system not anything that's outside of this board's jurisdiction we can only be talking about the use we're a you land use board we can't talk about oh but you have to have this special ceiling tile whatever it is I'm looking to get on what the situation is Mr will have his Witnesses I almost feel that they're a witness to support as well so that's something I just I will probably be asking for that to happen if they want to be present to help us or they want to provide testimony beforehand um that testimony but I guess they're Written Letter they could they could do it by a letter if they choose to I I certain will be reaching out to do that so does anybody think anybody else anything that they want to ask this applicant to go for to bring or um to make sure our list of is this effectively then we make this list and then we decide it's complete given that you give us this list of things when you come to the public par SEC because we will the board do it that way provid that those list of items are timely submitted I guess what would be done is that um the board considered a hearing date MH and but it would be conditional upon getting the uh that Mr clero has suggested and then the would Noti hear well we have to De it complete before we can talk about dates though do we am I correct you could give a DAT this evening yeah usually I was gon to suggest that you like we've done in the past do a motion to deem the application complete contingent Upon Us providing the information at Mr clerico identified at least 10 days before the public meeting and we hold the meeting on June 11th I think is Goods hearing would beend hearing the materials have to be submitted material materials would have to be submitted to by professionals and ourselves for review and in time which gives you our next meeting is June 11 I get is that June June 25th June 11 can you get everything in it yeah what's got four weeks so one week guess at this point um if the board wants to make a motion that they would uh conditionally deem a complete upon submission of those items the hearing date would be June 11th of course the those items would have to be um timely submitted the applicant would be noticing that is on risk of those I just want to say to the board we've been down this rabit hole so many times and thanks to Mr rberg pointing out three times tonight that we don't have checkos we are now in process creating the mother of all checklists and we have and we have other applications complete that let us down repeatedly and we all kind of talked about we weren't going to do that anymore just putting that on the record but you never did that with me so you Mr but but they know and they they know that when I when I promise to do something I do it and I get the material that you want and they've always been satisfying that's why I've gotten my approval because I provide that information I'm sensitive to the board wanting information our alterate board and I'll I'll call for anybody to comment on this then our alternate um given the M statement is that we wait until our checklist is complete and approve before we move forward we have timel to act we're not going a checklist requires an ordinance we're not going to right but we take that under consideration and we respectfully request that you acknowledge appreciate the fact that we don't have a checklist and we are taking on Trust on what on moving forward but we won't have it won't linger let's put it that way has other applications of death that's why I got to be honest with you I mean you're correct I do point out all the time that you don't have the checklist I could be a jerk and say you don't have a checklist you can anything I never done I've always said Bo what are you looking for I'll get you that information um you can't beat me over the head with it because you don't have anything to beat me over the head with in terms of the checklist but I'm going to get you I'm going to get you the information that you need to my Che now you have to do all this no but well what I just want to make sure that we have everything we need at that public so we can do it can ta that's important yeah reciting a section of the ordinance that specify even though it's not a check it's a section of the ordinances and this is what you need for any application submission and as I I just copied and paste this into into the memo that I sent it's item talking about item A9 on here item d item G um item L 4 6 uh and N although it's not in the form of a checklist we do have a list of items that we require as so let's let's get some work yeah is that correct would you agree with that I would agree that you have an ordinance section but but if you really want me to get into the legal argument about it I can say that Municipal Landings law requires a checklist and if it's not there isn't a checklist you can't hold my application for not providing that information in order to deem it complete that you need to schedule a public hearing I also realize that you're going to want to see things at a public Hearing in order for me to convince you to act favorably on my application so all I'm asking for is tell me what you want to see right and I'll get it to you because you don't have the checklist and let's hold a public hearing so I can answer the mayor's questions on all those issues well hopefully for my discussions you you have a really good feel for what we what we'll be looking for we've identified through Mr clo notes and notes we've made today in our discussions what we're looking for so do I can we make them we can can make a motion make my recollection at the motion would be that the will Ely submit the items uh just reviewed by Mr clerico they'll be timely submitted to the board the board will schedule a public hearing uh for June 11th provided that those items are kindly submitted and the Tim of that the board established is 3 weeks yeah so would anybody okay can we P the rooll on this one please Mr cook yes Mr D yes mayor Carol no councilwoman fararo Miss giin yes Mr Hill yes Miss Whitman yes Mr yes Miss swing thank you all very much see you on June 11 see we'll put Ona thank you all right this the fun part back to I guess it's this is now the new item 13 moved around old item 12 discussion of the planning board checklist yeah I do not want any paper no paper I got it [Music] here hopefully people did have time to look through I know we received um received several and um Dennis for an HPC related comment so this is our time then to go through you wante what yes please go through each item somebody has a comment on the item hear comments do we W before we get this a while Mr Gina do you want to stay for this or do you want to leave or do you want to stay with us you're more than welcome I would rather us not have a meeting perfect okay thank you all right sorry B want to start with what applications we're covering here um so we have the normal subdivision you know major and final site plan minor major minor major preliminary major final the four different types of variants applications um under the municipal land use code I threw in here for a sign plan that's a separate subcommittee that hears that I don't you really want that on your checklist or not I don't think it's a separate thing it supports any of the others doesn't it if they have a sign so I don't think it needs a separate separate officially yeah an applicant has the right to say you know what I'll do signs later or they might say well I'm going to do signs now but in there that case then they would submit signage with their application but it's not it's not up to the board to say it's almost like an optional so then why hav a checkl option getting crowded as it is so I don't think this checklist this checklist need take thatn and then we have we threw in here an informal review for Content now we can go through and look at what's going to apply different types of applications and had some comments on that comments on that as well so um so you basically an application form and fee is essentially required any any can I justor I just have a quick question on the the colors of this so where're you have like required documents application and application esus and say with separate computation calculation that's just for variances is that just for variances it's red the color code here is that the blue um is is text additional text I if you recall I had that other submission that have the two checklists sorted together so what's in in the dark black font is essentially is in your current checklist it might be reorganized in different locations but it's from your check current checklist the blue was in your current checklist but it's additional lineage to be added to it uh and the red is like a whole separate thing that's not in your check the red and the blue is a little bit of a distinction what you want to consider but no I'm going directly to you one we have a one yeah yeah and I did you send out the one with the different color last what is just you want have some sense of where it came from we gonna get sorry I was overthinking it so I guess the question would be is there any additional types of applications do we want should we include a certificate foruse is that a separate you put in the same categor like a C or D I feel like given the discussion we just had we should put it in here I and maybe it just simply takes the place of the sign plan that's fine I mean in terms of the the column organization would that cover all of the things that we've had to do we is that the type they are all those separate one also foral would that be a use that would be a use just what did you call certificate of what so I was gonna recommend you know where sign well I don't care about the format I'll leave that to Bob but we should add certificate of non-conforming use and perhaps an appeal zoning officers appeal they probably require largely the same information I don't know it might change my mind as we go through the checklist I think it would to identify that this came from an appeal someh would it are we supposed to was that not you know it's one more application uh one more agenda item or an application that somebody's going to make to the board and that they're going to they're going to try to figure out what they need to submit we're going to try to figure out what whether or not we're happy with what they've submitted so in my mind not withstanding the busyness of the the checklist and all the information I think it would just simplify things and avoid conversation if we just had it in here yes I I agree we need to capture that so that we come with all these things that might come forward to us on here like say we're doing the M checklist to be the m so we'll have a column um that'll be for certificate of not use zoning I think so like I said and Bob based on the earlier comment on a bated application we don't have the right to say we won't accept a B I don't think we do so the thing is so would not be the same as an ABC or D would be a they're that's all they're applying for D is the only column oh I got it I once you get down to the major minor I I'm sorry question yeah I don't know if this is the appropriate time um but if we're changing all adding different um applications that we might want to and might time for another discussion have fees that are um look at the the fee schedule non fees and that's a another almost that's a different ordinance um that's a different ordinance when you do this checklist there's going to be things in here that are contradict stuff that's in the text of your ordinance that's going to have to get modified and you can certainly do the fees at the make a note that we have to this will want then you eliminate that and is there is there anybody that would sign up for where it says informal review not a d however you put that because I do think there some misconceptions about let me just come in if they know they need a use variant you don't do for well we we have done in the past the person sitting said oh use records yes but as soon as we do that we right but again I mean where does it say does it say anywhere because usually what's supposed to happen is that they have a conversation with the code official code officials like usually is pretty good about figuring out is this a is this a d or not oh you might want to do an informal find they talk to e and e asks more questions about what's going on well yeah and they should be getting now that we have a a zoning permit application um that is great because um our zoning offic can take a look at that identify what the relief you don't we need to remind well we just need those procedures um it might be worthwhile to have something in our application right now we have like a procedural um sheet in the beginning of it may be worth to to revising that and we want to make sure that that match yeah all the stuff that they should do if they're looking to do [Music] anything yes going in the right direction all right thank you okay um are we okay with three weeks for submission yes three we um so the first thing and again this is split between documentation you need to submit with an application and the second part of information that you need to incorporate on the plan if that plan is required based on so the first segment here um we did the first section in the alphabet we did the second section in uh so a is application and gr fees with separate computation [Music] calculation would that then refer to that speed schedule we're talking about would that I I mean you could start referring to sections of the ordinance but I the question you're trying to make this too complex more detail change the ordinance and you got to change your checklist or but the note to be taken now is that we have to make sure that we have separate compliation for you sp this fee and this escrow so yeah and that's required for everybody including the new category of might be simp second one is Administrative five I think we settled on five right so five copies of the completed application form and five copies of the completed checks but the application form and checklist will come it's only well all documentation that they're going to any supporting documents checklist application plus all I mean if it's photos whether it's a it's with the exception of possibly the storm water management um documents because those are well let's let's make a note we might be able to stick that in here yeah and supporting documentation um C is applicant disclosure statement if filed this a corporation as required we cited the section of Statute um a list identifying required or requested variances including narrative explanation outlining the basis for the requested relief is that too much yeah I I was going to recommend that we strike the uh the explanation outl on the bis for requested relief I find that uh when those items are submitted they're often uh not complete you know so as let me let me let me share my experience when I testify before other boards I I have that item on checklist and I am really reluctant to provide that information so far in advance of the completeness because ter um there's a chance that they don't necessarily have their final planner selected because sometimes don't real they need them um and the planner may not have had the opp like the application might not be the applicant team might not be uh uh working close enough yet for the planner to be able to put put together their explicit arguments and also I have to say as the planner I never want to share that with the board in advance and so I think that the board is unlikely to get something that's particularly helpful because you just as the person doing the testimony especially for controversial application you don't necessarily want to lay out all your arguments in you know 45 days in advance who added that in what why like AR it came from the other checklist oh okay I just I don't I don't think that the board is going to get a particularly meaningful document from the planner that we're going to be able to rely upon because those that I've seen in other towns they submit something and it's sort of the the standard recitation of positive and negative criteria and then when the planner the actual planner potentially the different person actually stands up their arguments are much more detailed potentially just frankly different and so so we're just asking for a list of the variances yeah I think list of the Varian is is absolutely necessary Adas so the narrative explanation is what we're going to expect for the public came but we don't we don't need yeah you're going to get that verbally completion right yeah so required requested variance so did that go so looking at the colums um that already is not checked for the formal RW well you look that like we this yeah because we should be looking over there too to see what we want toire in these new columns which is zoning heel and certificate of nonconforming use I guess informal review is empty because they're coming to find out what we might lot whether this ising the purpose of a a cont flush out stuff like that so so it looks like it looks like Bob AB C and D is required for all of these so they should be required for the two new columns as well right I don't know if the the appeal does the appeal need to have a list of variances no okay nor would a certificate of not conforming this but it does need the appli disclos statement yeah you want know you want to have an application want to know who the app and the certificate of not conforming use we want stat do we need that and thinking about this on D identifying required question you don't need that for a major final subdivision because you you would have already gone through that um so you wouldn't need it there um is it which letter on D you wouldn't need it for a final major sub right because you already would have had it that follows the preliminary you wouldn't need it for a preliminary you wouldn't need it for a minor subdivision on site plans um major major final again technically you can't get the major final unless you went through major preliminary so a lot of the applications come through as preliminary F sure I mean I know it's not granted until but that's how they get that's how they come to us right you believe it or not you would have had it already you requireed under one you're going to get it under the other one so cumulative As you move right right prelim and final minor moving on to E again certification from the bur Clon Water insur Department that se charges under L these interest or other assessments are paid to date we want that from everybody not an informal and not do we need it for well it depends what the appeal is for the thing is this appeal column almost covers any of them because we don't know what level an appeal be anything right is not true or that would be Min don't know that's right right let say they always they should be paying up before they come yeah so we'll put it for for any any I mean they could always request a waiver it's not relevant yeah exactly that's that I think that's the way around I want we want to go forward with it is we expect more and they can ask for waivers if they that's why he's got in here on on the columns on the right waiver requested then we get decideed we agree with that for the particular case I case Basics yeah well just go so just going back before we go too far because we've changed that sign plan to say appeals item C we would check that would we on an appeal I just want to fill that in for myself is that right I put e across the you need c item C for an appeal we would want that just because we I want to put it in just because we don't know what kind of appeal is at that point right yeah yeah okay thank you yeah because that says only if you're following as Corporation yeah so yeah that would go across the board so to EF a certified now you would only need a certified list if the application requires notice so major final doesn't require notice so we get rid of that U major preliminary wood minor minor wood unless there's a variance well again Vari be there can't be an ordinance um the count can have an ordinance that you have to notice it for a minor subdivision generally it's not keep in mind these are not mutually exclusive you can have a minor subdivision but also requires a variance so it's it might be the variance aspect it requires a notice not the minor subdivision but a 200 foot list is always nice to know if somebody needs to be redused so we we don't need it for zoning appeal and do we need it for certific nonconforming use you that that's a situation where we're going to use one colum to cover both yeah but we could again this is where they can request West all right so we'll throw that one there but we'll take it at a final major final major and minor do we need it for minor or not for minor have an ordinance you have to notice for Min and we're not requiring it for minor cycle again if there's a variance that's going so any of the Varian is required informal wound require um sign es agree you want that for anything uh H completed form a and the bur plon water and sord utility now is that is that conflict with the no it's different they're different okay one Fe one certified form of the B PL water insur department um we don't need that for a major subdivision final but we need it for preliminary we need it um those agreements need that for anything else right we for well not the receive one but somebody's suby property you might we do need Certificate of that I'm sor are we talking about form yeah for the certificate yes because like so the one that was done for the developmental disable b b Center you're adding 20 people into a building that only like had six or seven before so the form is important because it calculates sewer use no no I no I get it I just mean that was for a use that was for a new use for the uh for the dental office for example they would have already had their sewer allocation to existing right but that was that was his zoning appeal that wasn't the nonconform use yes the dent office was zoning yeah we don't need the dent we don't Dent office no not for also think it won't apply to the um theer uh I is now against wording from the town of Clinton you probably don't use this wording will serve I will serve and review letters from the burough of Flemington fire department rescue squad Fire Marshall and police department that's will serve is not a terminology you use in your ordinance Clinton does so if you want I I don't think I mean for me it's like it's not about the Ser it's about their comments we find comments from not necessarily well the rescue squad I guess for housing development but you know I would like review letters not the words and this this Clinton gets tripped up in this a lot an applicant can send documentation to a fire department but to say you're not complete till you get a response back it's a little owners so maybe just filing with I think provide a review letter from them that they comment provide proof of filing with yes but don't I'm sorry when we have an applicant that files an application do they are they responsible for sending to say the Fire Marshall is that everything that occurs as part of receiving that's us something that I would do um unless you would like to put the you know that onto the applicant to do those things but how would we demon did they to the board but I think this I don't think this makes sense for us yeah like this this this one here that's this ey is not we want if if if if our practice has been that we provide plans to all of the agencies then it can't be a completeness item for them to have the Rev I think it should be our responsibility that's the best way to make sure that they respond okay then we'll just take the I out it's so it's not something the appc has we not it's something that we are going I mean I don't send I don't send it to the fire department rescue squad I send it to the Marshall Fire Marshal Police Department the uh missions the HBC the um CH commission the environmental like process do well that was that has been the the practice since I've been here there was there's a staff letter that um I complete and now I just do it and I send it to the water department and send it to the solar department so maybe so I mean I'm just thinking about like the different kinds of development um you know like a housing de a large Housing Development I think it's important that the rescue squad get noticed and be allowed to opine as well as the fire department even though the Fire Marshall is part of the fire department technically um separately but then if you have you know a place that's a um you know like Deus or a factory or light industrial then maybe we do want that there as well so but not like not tea barries not is the one controlling where it goes if there's a request but I need some direction on I mean that's not my call to say that this this one qualifies and this one does not qualify I mean that's something that have to tell you an applicant as it comes to completeness whether or right we have to say I mean this one get these guys SL right but the other but by the time that comes you you're coming to the board for completeness that so because the issue ends up being that outside boards shry environmental HBC they have to get they get copies of it but they have to submit their comments before the beginning of the public hearing that's so they get during the completeness period you know then it's usually you know at least two weeks three weeks um until they put on the the agenda for completeness and then completeness generally it's not it's not the two weeks because there almost impossible to provide notice for here so usually is four weeks by the time you know so that does give the board you know all of the commissions some time we usually the idea of them getting it at when it's when the application comes in rather than waiting for it to be complete allows The Quirk of the calendar of like HBC you catch the HBC meeting or enough keep them heads up that is exactly what I want to try we want to capture this in our procedures that it's at the point when we've deemed it complete then we're going to be sending it asking for these and these will need to be ready before the public hearing comes up how do we Capt what I'm saying is it's not a checklist item I'm saying that we need to come up we can do this now but my suggestion would be that we come up with a list of application types like every application goes to HBC because the H that falls within the HBC uh uh District because that's in our ordinance that they somewhere so that's already in our ordinance environmental commission gets everything because that's how our ordinance is right so that's that's required it's got to be if there's environmental commission um the um shade tree gets all of them right right like so if if the question is getting reviews from like Rescue Squad and police um if you want us to there's not enough time to for us to wait until complete this it needs to come in when it comes in the door like when I sending it to the other agencies and I think we need to give her guidance as to which right the non but yes Liberty Village level of housing has to know what's going on that's why I was wondering the time like it's almost like a checklist but when we're going when we do complet this and then we decide what when are we going to schedule it it's almost like we're going through the up then we need to get to these people by this point so it then it then informs what date we can schedule for so they're aware it's like it's needed at that point is it but I get your point say in some cases we want it earlier we want it earlier then also because we have 45 days we have we have a clock and so because of works of like this month where we have a meeting tonight we don't have a meeting until for four weeks out that's already 30 we're talking 30 days now and so so we've got to we can't like if if if if someone was in tonight deemed complete and then or we we couldn't wait till the second meeting in June because we had have a timeliness isue right we would have to hear them in four weeks and not in six weeks because we can be running up against the 45 day clock which would mean that we can't wait till completeness is done to send it out to these other folks for review because we're not going to have and we can't make that call send it until we complete I'm just trying to see is can we capture it here we said all application submitted we're basically say we also want them to submit them it's not just before the board meeting of the this meeting three weeks before the at least about the 45 days I know you're trying to cap you're absolutely right and what I'm suggesting is that what we need is as a board to disc to determine which applications need to go beyond the ones that we're already s i what the mayor right and I think we can do that that's internal process doesn't require an ordinance change really it doesn't require us to do anything other than decide as a board to adop policy not bylaws exactly we can do it so I so the board secretary knows which ones have to go but that's and and that's that's my that's what I'm saying it doesn't have to go here right so we're gonna put pin in it and we're gonna have that discuss have that discussion but I Mark Mark two that's the discussion about that timing of that thank you and pulling up the checklist also means that we're not requiring them to make a decision as to who it has to go to we're deciding who else that we want that way right I don't I do want to C am I only wanting to capture somewhere just tell them that we will be we will be sending it to all these no we don't have to do that okay send it whoever you want to send it okay this is a session before we're allowed to talk to anybody get their love it love it all right okay Public Utilities one yeah public utilities will certain now again I think you would want to have proof that they filed something with these agencies and a lot of these are not going to get responses um until somebody actually comes in and signs a contract for service or didn't car didn't car have wording for this or was it be did I see instead of provide that you've submitted to is that instead of provide will Ser we we should start the process right I that applicable too yeah who do we want Well you certainly want that for a major subdivision um and minor and a minor subdivision um you would want that for your for um your major preliminary s plan and for S plan you can require it an app says that's really not necessar that's for a waer they they can ask W like a t berries may ask for a waiver on that like it's an existing C Serv could be granted but a Liberty Village clearly we need and do we want toct to these companies or just say Public Utilities is appropriate is this a suggestion I don't know what compies we took yeah I think we need to adjust that language a little bit more it's electric so you don't specify those are your yes because Tech it's now they are but First Energy bought JCP and whatever some they're yeah from it being J go to so just so the applicant in phing is sou the next colums after the criteria the applicant F set out he saids yeah I provided this or no it's not applicable or you know I'm asking for a wait so there right there they just by symbol they're indicating what they're asking for the last column again this should simplify reports on this where we just I'm reviewing this thing I would go through and the applicant says they provided I would just put a one yep or or if they ask for a waiver yes and then I would put a recommendation over here waiver should be granted or not granted or maybe try to come up try to come up with code that that so that when I do a review letter I'm basically tell you what the application is what did you get and then the recommendation based on the attach check list that you should grab these waivers or whatever would we need that middle one forgive me if they're request if they're not requesting it already and would we need you to write is this use when when you in your suggest you the First Column is then telling you while I'm submitting second column is me verifying that yet they submitted or know they lot of applicant said they gave you something and they didn't well what's the request waver for in the to be completed by the B why would we request a waiver no no I'm just confirming yeah waiver was requested they requested away put that in the column to the left complete by waer requested yeah they saying I'll ask you for a waiver and I would say yep waiver requested it's or they requested waiver and you don't do the W Grant this works trust me sorry sorry explain what have extra check again this should be completed by the ver right not the okay moving on thank you okay um again five copies of existing title search uh identifying again protective Covenant deed restrictions applying to the land being subdivided there's a lot of wording in here we can cut back from this but basically it's a title search I'm trying to explain what it is we're interested and who has to do that yeah but I mean on the left side okay well okay here again you wouldn't you wouldn't need it for a final major because you would have gotten it with the preliminary you would need it for a minor um you should have it for any s application and you should have any varant but again somebody but somebody who's doing an appeal of a zoning decision sech concept plan doesn't need so we we'll take it out of those two I know you saidy but I likey because this this this seems to be am I right this seems to be an issue that comes up a lot where they provide something then you say what you provided this and you didn't provide this one piece of information so let's capture all the things expect this know all yeah but we actually have duplicate languages the blue came in from another section of your checklist you we have protective Covenant and we have restriction so we clean up the language so it's not okay yeah but cover all the things like you said is this where we would cover easements current easements on here what easements let's let's cap is it that's a okay I just want to be really specific because you've had to ask people several times to add those things on to plants and i' rather them once actually this is two fold asking for existing and then the second part is proposed proposed yeah yeah so many many existing propos we'll clean up this language so it's not there not duplicate stuff okay but it'll cover do we want to be explicit and say including ean's brand I mean one of the one that always pops up is is easement for the burough for sewer exactly yeah that's add on I have a question are they able to submit a document with proposed de restrictions I guess and or well I guess proposed de restriction but like proposed right Etc would that was that just on their plan yeah show requir um you know find subdivision that has to be approved you know should have to have the necessary rights of that okay you might also have utilities that are necessary by the side plan I was just thinking about the distinction of document versus something that's identified on the plan and whether or not whether delineation again this is a document this is not plan this is a document so if they're proposing to Dedicated enement for complete his purposes they should provide a copy of what it is they proposing the draft I might get a little do we ever deal with conservation SE one but it would be covered again this some wanted if someone wanted to gift their you know if they wanted to do Grant a conservation to a landr or something for open space or blah blah like as part of a subdivision or S plan would be covered under this talking we condens this a little bit so everything say here it's not thing um five copies of all these me and B subscript keep this is only apply to a minor sub um can I separate L&M then the same thing or say it again why do we have L&M are they completely separate am I miss alled me description showing Dimensions bearing Cur that's that's an actual deed okay the delineation right away could just um well that would be a d too actually okay this is these are this is Deeds not um is more EAS me and restrictions L is actual title documentation as John said earlier if you're doing a minor subdivision you have to post you have to provide a deed that's going to get recorded in order to protect the sub is that why if that was only checked off there yeah because when you do major subis you do by the fil all right so this sound really stupid but you're using language of Dimensions bearings curve radi arcs for Central Ang meets bounds that's like the archaic language are we are we stuck with that like is that no well under certain circumstances that's required for like under the ml we have to it's a map filing law is the law right the map fing like use the words meets and Bounds like that's the the standard phrases we uh yeah yeah change the law yeah okay um so m is related the the Deeds the M byed okay that's okay so that we should take that out of the minor subdivis category because we have it above like it's the same wording except it's applying to different things right so it shouldn't it shouldn't be applying in minor because the minor is above just different eement dedications dedications of additional the fact that we're accumulating some different sours there might be some repetition there might be some we might be saying the same thing twice uh and certification from owner that the property in question has not been part of a prior land use application or provide or list of dates of Prior applications I don't know if you want that or again I came why do we care why do you care um why do you care check well if there was if there was a prior development I mean we should know there was or not but that's somebody telling guess like with if they show up in 10 years and nobody up your left yeah okay there could be you know a condition that was imposed as part of a prior application that we might want to know about we want we might want to know that they that this board has issued a variance okay and 10 years later 20 years later okay can I but let me play the other side of that though how far back are we expected to I think they should file an O request for all the resolutions and that don't I mean appeal we find that necessary go back as far as possible right for the for the right but I'm saying if someone's coming in um if someone's coming in and the property was developed my house was built in 1872 and I am trying to document whether where and somewhere in in I don't know 1955 there a variance granted from my garage and I and I need to come in because I want to extend my garage four feet right am I obligated to go do all that work for what is want to make twoot burd some for a on the other on the other hand we've got issues on Academy Street where a garage was built on top of an outflow pipe water collection pipe right that is now created major flooding on so we would want to know I guess I don't for Weaver I get like one of put on shed and so they just say to do that versus yeah cut cut I'm just worried about like a lot of these little things some of us have been around for for a while but none of us have been around that long so like there's been St time right so you're saying that if you came with something and then somebody said well but that wherever your garage has been put is now not not it's not in approved place right do you have to prove that it then you then we're getting into that this we want to you say do we want to I'm trying I'm try we're trying to make a balance between what we need for completeness right to hear the application um versus you know and then for a big application I think we want to be Str get everything put the burden on a large application to have everything there but again just making sure that is the burden on to find it and you're suggesting that the smaller one the burden should be on those if we want to find something no no no I'm I'm saying that like we don't want to discourage somebody to come we don't want someone putting up the shed without coming to us at all what I'm worried about this we think it to burdensome for for an individual property owner they're look at the checklist they're be like screw this I'm putting up a shed without a permit and then we have it built on top of the sewer outlow home F if you want to put up a shed you just show plot PL yeah well you know look it's a residential house and they're putting up the shed there's nothing they're going to come for this board anyway unless they're not meeting a setb unless the Zone set I'm talking like a setback situ that's that's the one that I could imagine mostly happen you know setback to rear yard or sard or something you know like my my garage I can tell you right now this is no secret my garage is sitting on the property like within six inch of the property line and it just is and if I did anything on my property would trigger Cy plan I'm gonna have to come in for variance right so you know and that's and but I know what I'm doing here I don't want to discourage other folks from not following the process that's so if we're going to ask for uh historic information about the property and not permits but olutions why don't we just Target that to Applications that's kind of where I was going I don't know how to write that maybe it's just final site plan take it out a minor not for the variance so if you're just coming in for a c variance you don't need pull that all the variance ones well I meanes definely like maybe it's maybe D variant what are we asking forward what are we looking to find that we should we find it Well I think that's making a really good point though like we want to make sure that there's not prior approvals and other resolution and compliance issue you know their their U their testimony about what previously occurred it maybe not even cross check but it might also inform them as to what previously occurred we had somebody coming in I don't know within the last year who wanted to it was a house and then they wanted to like expand the house and it was like a father was a was a contractor I don't remember where it was right and no it doesn't matter what but there was but it was a hold to do because of they needed to come in and end up doing C plan essentially and it was they' taken something down and then they were add well they it was the house on Dewey it was there um right by me and they there was a house fire when they were doing um a remodel and then from the house fire they were looking to then do an extension but then they found out all this stuff that they were Grand part of them but they didn't they weren't zoned for right so I want I wanna I want to make sure that we're not put too much bur on it right but then keep in mind this is something you don't have in your current checklist that's why that's why it I think the word certification makes very yeah I we don't want them to certify it and get it like you know signed up but just a statement that they and to your point you we want to say within 20 years or 25 years or something limit their their requirement to provide it but without restricting ourselves that if we want to go further back on our and we can always ask for more information the che right right like the C Class example is really a good one though like we I would I would not want to hear anybody coming in without having all of the history where is the ca for the tell you what another good example is the spice Factory that came back and they weren't aware of the previous what we've agreed with them was 20 minutes ago they should have known that I know exactly and that we frustrated remember we were frustrated they hadn't even bothered to find out what the previous approval was I think I think if we were stricted to the major applications I we should ask for resolution specifically rather than a certification yeah and then if they even if there are no resolutions they'll be able to indicate uh that it's been uh provided but that honestly the the applic provider know that they make the request of no resolutions and so so we're asking to Pro resolutions rather than um whole application we're asking for submission of resolutions applicable to the property yeah I'm sorry I feel like you're the one that's have to oh you don't you don't pull resolutions yes sorry resolutions is all applications might appliations never no no no just just the resolutions I don't think we need construction permits I don't necessarily want the documentation for those we can we can get that if necessary during the hearing res resolution want to change the word certification or something else yeah yeah um it's almost like we said like proof of request or something proof that you've requested it no we want the actual resolution we want yeah it should be resolutions applicable to the property or similar language yeah we need I think we need to let go so first number one is it has not been part of that prior application or number two provide list of dates with all prior applications you want to add to that resolutions we wouldn't we just want the resolutions we want to provide a list of applicable still applicable resolution or or or certification certification that a a number of requests yielded no well they they could actually would send them the record send them something say that's the thing and for what columns I think it's the doing we hardly ever see a minor sub if you would want to see that for a minor sub well the old subdivision all the subdivisions major uh you would need it for major PL because you would have gotten and D VAR Vari and I don't think we need for C Vari okay although I don't know okay what else is under SE VAR setbacks FS it yeah think you're never GNA see an impervious coverage variant unless was part of you're going to get it there but what what Standalone Seas just general bulk stuff right well house residential house accept that VAR we just the we right so do we need it for the Seas the Standalone SE I don't think you know to the point of trying not to be a burden to homeowners that are looking to include their properties I'm I'm really not worried about a resolution from 15 years ago for a single family home that's now extending their garage maybe again compared to um you okay so o is outside agency that they filed with they provided application with appropriate fees required commiss submitted directly to we don't submit the they subm no I don't submit any applications to the you know Soil Conservation District that would be above and that's not why I wouldn't feel even comfortable you know doing something like that because it has fees involved and I'm not submitting their documentation to an outside ageni provide us with copies of what you filed with these agenes and some of these might be not again they might check not a click be not disturbing more than 2000 you're talking also DP and D too right well no I certainly would be qualifi no because those are those would always be um your action will be subject to their ability you know to obtain outside state agency they may do it well they could but you know we don't normally put I've never put that this is the County planning board which has to act again to the extent that they have jurisdiction the three local and help department is probably most likely not going to be appliable to any of these you're on sewer so didn't we say we wanted to know that they done this D and applications with some that current on jurisdic yeah that's that was the issue they higher jurisdiction no we just wanted to know that they had start the application process meod I thought the car yeah I thought was a that we couldn't acire that as a so why did even know we have jurisdictions do it as submission of approval what's the purpose of making sure that they've submitted it because then we go well they have another County agency has it's something to conservation and let's say well I don't want to talk um if if it's subject to S conservation they come in they come to us with a plan we review the whole plan and then we approve it and then saw Conservation District comes back and says well wait a minute you need this this and this you it's more it's more for uh you know Co having a coher and review of the application you can't do that with DP or DLT because I mean in some cases it makes sense for the applicant to go to dot up front but you can't require me um but on the county level they really County agencies are really acting in conjunction I that's how I would um you know a lot we've had numerous applications where the County planning board had a concurrent jurisdiction with local planing so you know they'll they'll do a review and and and we'll do a review and they'll come up with recommendations and we have to the applicat something to those those conditions as well it's it's kind of rare that there conflicting stuff but you want to flush that out up front and and that's a completeness I'm just trying to think I do not remember um I can't tell you the last time you don't have this isn't this is coming I know but but thing is I mean you don't want it you but but again I'm expanding my garage really County Department of Health well it's not you you so you really are though for this you're requiring somebody to have an attorney because a delayed person expending the garage say I'm sorry I I have to where do I get an application to the hunon County Soil Conservation District and you know what I mean it just seems it seems excessive so then let's talk about it like we have the other one so what which kinds of applications are their jurisdiction for you know look the thing is if a single residential property happens to be on a County Road cter County planning board has jurisdiction right like they're going to have to do it yeah and and this is just making making them be aware of what they need to do they can always say I don't think it's appable is have to go to the count it's ridiculous but that's the that happen just as we're talking this through is that is that they're gonna submit it they're gonna like no they'll say no I don't need it no I don't need it Bob's gonna go through it he's going to come back and say actually yeah you do well that's why I want a space inste believe you know what I mean I want space even if we say it's not well that's why that's what his column is on on the right side no I'm saying I want to space for D and we can't require that suemac application to we're not say they've got permission I just if this is a checklist it's like identifying what we want them I'm gonna give I'm gonna give a a perfect example of this you know I started talking to Cardinal when I became mayor a year and a half ago about their subdivision and I said to them a year and a half ago have you gone to the D yet and they said oh we're not sure we really have to and five months ago DP basically is now shut down their project because they're demanding all kinds of St stuff that's like so I waste you know resources on something be well I certainly wasted my time with them and you know and it's been very it's been very frustrating the perfect exle just to know that they even went yeah just did you go did you start talking to them and that way here we can go oh yeah you do here's the storm water law the ordinance we have with State ordinance or whatever well let me offer a suggestion here let's scratch huning County Health Department because there's only virtually no application it's gonna well somebody said down here I think was Jeff restaurant well again Again part have complete we would pick that up we Pi that up as part of the application we don't need to have every Everybody your brother go go to the health department and say again like I said a small applicant get confused why do I have to go to the health department right this came out of it probably an earlier check with you have a lot of if you're on SE or something yeah so let's just scratch and same with d little L they're actually on your they're on your current checklist so we you're GNA get okay sorry all right I just all right and if it says again I'm trying to think L person if it says if applicable there's somebody in this office that can help an applicant I want to put a glass enclosure on my restaurant do I need huning County Soil Conservation hly I have okay I'm just trying to think of you could start specifying trigger disturb so you can have your checklist go into further detail if you're disturbing more than 2000 look if we wanted to think of this as a as a workflow rather than spreadsheet and we would have like a computer program that would ask a series of questions Turbo say does this require more than 2,000 you need to go to C conservation but that's not how we're building do you think there's a different way to get this information across or do we leave it for major things I think we can put certain information on the website and with the application that talks about when you need to talk we can take it out of the Varan on because just you're that's a Land Development variance is a a usage so we can take it out major things still sitting there for people to see go how do we Min all right so um p is just certification the tax taxes are PID you want that pretty um so combination coming from your current thing with percolation test would come from the tax assessor that would be the tax collector the tax assessment you at that time as well thank you why we carry um so Q we kind of modified a little bit so soil regulation test soil logs conducted the property in question if applicable for storm water management facilities and cours with debb andb manual chap so basically saying if you do and again that would be only be applicable to a a major major or minor site plan um or a um um a ma a major site I'm sorry major site monitor major s and again it might be not somebody might just say well under those standards under um next one really applies to subdivisions if they're ass signing block and lot numbers you would want um you want the assessor to be assigned you verifi that what they're assigning numbers are that correct um and again you can scratch the major subdivision because um you would have gotten that with or you should have gotten um five copies of drainage calculation drainage area maps analyze just close conditions required toly with veral strong ordinance just in um some other T that uh thinking of the the tax assessors um block block and lots we also have 911 coordinator for 91 for addresses would that be you know assign those those addresses as well is that do they do that as a checklist reir or they do they do as a as a checklist um and actually even on signage they have 911 addresses that are required on off signage um for any kind of emergency services that address the 911 service recognizes the true official address right get the get the official um addresses before they start you know but what happens if they don't get approv well this is It's simar to TA accessor getting assigning it could be done later on something for completeness yeah if you're doing a subdivision of you know blck 46 lock 13 and it's going to be 1301 and 13302 that's generally how you do it that's different than what's the new address on I know Liberty Village is own animal but like same idea there were Billy New Roads addresses they did come up one plan that they listed the address one because we changed the name of the road and they reflect that well because we changed we changed Central to Central Station the map was wrong I think that was up that beened we have that list cont by the county coordinat it's probably worth putting it here I like that because then it's clear it's only maor subdivision so it' be and street addresses under R you street address that as as as provided match have there's a reference certified by coordinator right yeah um coordinator is that the same thing no no um I won't want the guy runs the communications okay so if you call them y duplicate and post office used to get involved in that they St do it Coordinator would kind of look at all the different street names within Flemington address area not just plumton maybe anything that has plumton address that you wouldn't have a duplicate name ofap Aven oh so they're doing like you can't have Avenue there road yeah with the resue spad services responding to okay so the drain calculations again they be applicable to the major preliminary and to the I'm sorry major Division and the two not not necess major now T this is a lot of this language is coming out of your current not in this particular section so five copies this is from your current ordinance stream en coachit with Bure of flood plane management D of issue uh showing stream encroachment area and scale being used by the app that that language is coming out of your current we added in here flood Hazard calculations with CR sections a stream if app is not relying upon public survey of of flood Hazard delineations um you're not asking them to file at the agency but you're asking them to document what those what they believe those encroachments and those permits um this the state ordinances would require this is not worded very well because that's vation of something from that just need Tiding up editing on the word yeah I don't know that we could we say streaming coaching Comm but I we really can't require this um probably should reward that um so we don't need a permit but we definitely give them a give us a map that shows that they're aware of where they Li within that map right being used by the applicate for submission and him to provide flood Hazard calculations stream if if they're not relied upon a public survey of flood death really need to clean that language up but you know we're not saying they have to go to an agency to get a permit we're just saying if we're going to review something on Liberty billage we're going to we've had this in a couple of situations M broke and some other situations where you kind of want to know where they think the flood plane is or you have commited to proposing parking lots and all kinds of other stuff um five copies and digital copy of environmental impact statement did Dennis have a do you have a comment on that on HPC okay sorry like the environmental and commission view on this because on where um which one we would ask for that thought because I think we need that in situations where it's not just d i right but I wanted it might not even be a full environmental impact statement but we envirment you know I'm saying we're asking court on major major site plans um and major side yeah but we've definitely I know I definitely felt like we should have had more of an environmental statement from Africans on more smaller applications but remember which ones whether they were majores you know is a huge thing and it's a big word I mean it's appropriate on major asss for sure oh absolutely and that's that's a given well you unless you have a checklist for what you want in could be somebody you know one page document can it's a simple it's an identification have separate checklist for that's something like the enir about you know like what what would we like to see this is a chance to say what would we like to see them as opposed to just you looking at the S plans for them to pull out what the environment isues so I'm looking at this may be just part of our ordinance uh edits that we have to do once we get through this but in section 1514 of the B code it states variance application not involving a site plan or subdivision application shall not required e unless specifically requested by the approving Authority so I think that would be as part of part of the application um any major subdivision and or minor site plan to the approving Authority shall not require an Eis unless specifically requested by the approving Authority that language part needs to get clean langu which one does and which one doesn't and So currently Ain says which ones need it m you said minor side plan yes doesn't and I will say that our ordinance I'm sorry just just so everybody knows it has uh I'm not sure whether it's good or not but it has extensive requirements of what needs to be included yeah but it also says that um did I hear you correctly it's saying or our discretion we can ask for one outside of those where it says we definely is that correct yeah it does and so I think that would yeah so that I guess that seems to be a nod to either at the checklist or just part of ongoing application hearings if the board feels it needs more information so how do we capture that on here that we we have the I don't want I don't want this checklist to go forward with just those three items which are in the ordinance if we have the option to ask for it how we capture that well what I mean is when they look at this checklist I want them to be aware that we could ask it's almost like a dotted check mark on some of these others depend on what it is how do we capture that it's section 154 the ordinance is open to our discretion we can ask for an e for any VAR but the difference is between making a checklist requirement to complete versus as part of the hearing we say you need as part of this as part of this application we're going to need an e which the ordinance seems to allow us to do right as opposed to being a checklist requirement so the question I guess would be under what conditions do we absolutely need to always have it that would be your checklist and I think that's and then we as opposed to us having some sort of internal guidance again as to when we would ask for it it's a procedural item again goes in that procedural list of when we get to we're GNA also ask we're going to ask for you in this case to provide us with one even said you don't have to have one right like when someone's here for complet Miss and when we we hearing the application Bo us it whatever we have we have a conversation and we're like look you're going to have to do in the is just be aware that we're going to that's we need to be ready for that right and that's yes so then it comes down to our procedure that's on that procedure list because some not every application same might be one really I'm sorry but it's not may this is I'm not sure if this is a distinction you're making but if we tell if they're not required to do Anis pursuing to the checklist but as we're doing completement we we realize we're going to have environmental concerns want that information I think that the board we we have the ability to say we want that information as part of our hearing but I don't think we can hold their hearing until we get that information because it's not a completeness item it's a like the hearing should be able to start we may not be able to finish until we have enough information till until you guys have enough yeah so it's not really procedure it's like you know the same way we might tell an applicant um the Tes about parking because we're gon have a lot of question yeah yeah and um Mela can I ask you to bring that back to the environmental commission to look at that look at that ordinance think about when we might add that in whether there's yeah and then get how we do that so you think you want it listed as a on a chap the ordinance now I think it should be does this match the ordinance pleas check these checked right now that Bob's put on is that the word no it says uh it's it says in here a variance application not involving site or sub well the ordinance is not well written so let me say that but it says it shall not be required for a variance application that does not involve ciner subdivision unless requested by the approving Authority so as I look at this yeah they we have this listed as a d right uh honestly I guess this ordinance could be interpreted in a number of ways but soans need to site plan they have to ride is that the word if the Vance doesn't need a site plan they don't have to provide that's the word so we've got a check here under um evariant and the way you're reading that best suggests that Standalone D variant it's not part of the site plan should not according to what you just read should not require so if I want to build if I want to build a house in in indust or commercial Zone yeah and I'm coming in not a s plan I'm coming in for family you don't need to do I don't need to do it according to that ordinance we shouldn't do any is we have to take that sh so we can leave it here and just say and per inite the section of the ordinance but but what but I think You' got to check here for standal d i i has to come away use like you're describing Bob they the ERS they don't need to do it use only is just build essentially right so there's not a lot of they're not disturbing wetlands and things like that or flood Hazard are necessarily we might want to know where the flood Hazard is is part of the application but that's that's so much less than an but is the application of the word and also that anyone that does require a site plan requires yes because it said so all the site plans need to be checked all these boxes on the plan subdivision it's not minors not the minor not the minor yeah so yeah so i' I've um let's see the section one of this particular part of the code addresses agriculture operations I'm going to skip that that's probably pulled from another town uh section two is a variance application not involving site plan or subdivision we talked about that in that case it shall not be required unless specifically requested section three any major subdivision or minor site plan shall not require an Eis unless specifically requested so same language as the variant and then section four last States all preliminary major subdivision and preliminary major site plan applications shall be accompanied by an e so those are the only two that we should have to refence they will SE the word that says our discretion leave it check on those on those two classifications so take it out ofb yes okay now the next one again this is a combination of coming from different sources about Wetland reports and map showing Wetland delineation by professional now 90% of what you're going to see in the burrow is not going to be anywhere nearby do you want that you know want to say as applicable do you want to say um you want not go actually hire a professional go look at the property and say there there's no wetlands in the middle of [Music] town you're not so maybe we change it to that just provide show either proof that you are not yeah in a publish white according to what and that would be the same for a d though that but would that follow that you would not need that for a dfic I we should follow we but we might want that for minor subis yeah side that's put new structure on the ground yeah I agree those six should happen major minor yeah right so you want some reference in here to yeah proof of whether you're in it or not and if you are in it I think and W areally similar yeah might they might just be one thing well the W goes actually you're tring an application with the D again this is from your there's a lot of duplicate because we C this some different sources this this one here in blue actually come that's that's your current that's your current Orin that's your current check so this so w is saying if there is something issued from njp included I know it doesn't doesn't feel like that's what it's saying but that's actually what it's do we need we do yeah because is like weap or not weapons W is gave you a letter give us the letter yeah V is just saying want a report from a wetland consultant W is saying you actually want the conf you want that file with the D for issuance of a letter of interpretation but if needed or no it doesn't say that it says if issue well again that's your current language that's what your current check it says I think it would be clearer if we change the order of the words in W and put the if issued at the top if issued copies of any letters of interpretation for Wetlands from the land use regulation St or letter of exception from and document set with the application for D like like that way everybody knows that if there is no letter that they are it's not applicable to and then this red the red word in the will consider request for waiver I didn't we already cover that in V where we said you can provide proof in V that you're not in a wetman we already cover that do yeah so that would be covered there and then this one yeah y almost transfer it over yeah yeah and also should we call it V1 and V2 because they're related or do we need separate letters about that they're separate because W is a community if there's a letter right and V is we want everyone to respon either show us that you're not in Wetland or show us that Wetland is need a letter from the people in W and a professional Wetland consultant as well well any if if they file an application that they have a Prof there's a map IMAP of a wet possible Wetland area they have a report that says yeah there there's a wetland area here right there's no Wetland area here what we would require maybe not as a necessarily completing this checklist item but we would require as a condition that they actually get that confirmed by the state which is what the letter of interpretation process is it's a confirmation process the letter process in W also allows somebody who had this done previously to just subed make us I I get that what I'm what I'm wondering about is is are we because we already ask for w which VP but then in V we would also be asking them to prepare prepare a report is that appropriate if they already have a letter do they need to do another report no well if they have if they have a letter they already have a report get report right and Bob a w also goes into c w w goes into c c VAR out of the major final because you would have gotten with minor subdivision but but it also would come out of C yeah you're not going to get X is procedural they're asking for a waiver they need to have a narrative indicating what they're asking for and why they're asking is that right I thought this checklist was to make it simpler and then just put the requested are we saying if they check this requested we're asking for supplemental DET we need to gety reest you're right the checklist is already doing that we add that to be the the justification justification or or explanation as to why it's not applicable yeah that we may ask for that yeah they need to be ready with that yeah we want to know why something might not be applicable it may be quite obvious to them but right or might be wrong we exactly yes yes exactly I like site photographs for major fimary for um major side plan all side PL for these as well again we often ask for photographs of the site I think C's and D's probably are worth asking photographs because usually like a height thing we want to see R I think see if we're talking about a bu want to yeah do you want mounted renderings I'm I don't want so get rid of Z like it's such an expense for applicants yeah yeah especi technolog moved on can provide it why don't we say rendering but it doesn't have to be a physical rendering it can be um it can be provided electronically it now rendering the the side itself is an elevation oh this was something separate from the side but we often ask for give us a give us how this looks from this street is would this be captured here you know what I'm saying we say oh compare this with this and we want to see okay so maybe it's not mounted renderings of CPL subdivision lout it's just renderings doed in um in the latter part of the document because we're asking for architectural plans later on page seven it seems like rendering should go with yeah but this is but if we only make it required for subdivision in side plan we're not asking for architectual renderings here we're asking for that later for completeness we I want us to be able to see what the C otherwise we're not going to get an actual copy of c and the subdivision plan where else in the checklist if we have actually said give us the map whole next section yeah it's all the next section but that's is oh yeah okay yeah you're right get this is documentation that's not on that's not on Visual and often they give them anyway want to give don't I don't to requiring renderings I actually just think it should be later in the docum move see the section second section yeah like next to the item 37 where plans maybe new 38 should be apply to the rest of the things the Stag in or the building St well stages or staging plans um I guess I could go with the plans we can move that over to plans yeah I think move PL traffic impact stating would stay here would stay here for sure yeah and then the electronic submission I mentioned that earlier that Electronics it has to be it has to be able to be shared and put on things so we want yeah to be so can can I ask a question about traffic impact statement um we've got to check now for major preliminary for side planning or subdivision is there any other scenario where we would want to traffic in that state depend how we Define money for use some came by for use one I can imagine waving that in a lot of applications but I can also imagine it being very important change in use we would want to have TR yeah [Music] um yeah uh we tesy traffic we had something yeah we've definitely had it from Just variances and we want I'd rather put it in here and then ask for a waer from it andess obviously not every application needs butar I think just dear because I think a c bulk is not yeah but Central ended up only asking for a they need to do no they changed it they changing because they took because they changed the need I'm sorry I we just approved the town were on the first floor FL they needed the away one of they they needed the de they need set they really cleaned it up to to to just be use first FL not parking not set back it was also a yeah and it would have triggered stand deuse is gonna be a question like I don't know like we've been talking about these other ones no no I'm talking about the like we had the the adult daycare facility was a use question right and it was existing building but the traffic questions were important needs to be there and then they can ask forde all right that's perfect now I'm going to make a suggestion that the blue the next one moving on to page 4 through 8 yeah we do at the next meeting otherwise we're all going to be here too late is that okay with everybody objection and but can I ask Bob just just from a just a visual perspective can you justify the checkpoints onto the boxes so when you have a very long uh in other words let me give you an example be clear go to item number go to item number W if I'm reading quickly on item number W I don't need it there's no check marks press so I think I think it needs to be next to the letter you know what I mean it just makes a little easier for the reader yeah that's I mean I just but I think it it would help we could just fill in the that true that it have a play with what looks good yeah look good um when it's in use when it gets sent to somebody so have some fun find out what works good because that that then I'm thinking if we do the next part of the next meeting that gives next part is related to plans and that should go I just I don't I don't want to I don't want to goess we don't have to I think it's a natural break break maybe give our first shot at taking the adjusting the first section come back to you little second yes all right so which well I was going to ask because we've all been talking a lot but we haven't really heard anything from our friends that are around um our members that are online did we miss anything that you want to capture before we finish this section please anybody online Don denn Hannah anything that we missed no I'm good I'll bring up the HBC at the next one well you already said that to um yeah yeah we said tonight too is that right yes all right so thank you Bob and Lind for all your work on this really good discussion thank all right um before we move on yes um I have something to add to my mayor report that I forgot interest which is the circle sign yeah the circle sign um I had a conversation with our property maintenance officer who was gotten in touch with the actual owner of the land and um we have been assured that within the next couple of weeks the whole property will be cleaned up at no cost to the bureau and then he is going to get on top of the no the what's it called the person who's got thing in bankruptcy whatever that's called reer that's it receiver to make sure that they maintain it so we have 12200 that's ours to use and and and can can I you back on the on the mayor's with my own addition something so I do have something to the planning board and that is uh I received Dennis you'll be interested I received the uh historic district report from John hatch for the uh potential expansion of the historic district right so I have that for the next step basically converted to a housing planc preservation Amendment do that and we'll share the planning board and we'll get ready with notices agenda add the agenda for next time because that date is was it June 11th that we meeting yeah we want to keep that moving I think that would be great because I can and Dennis speak up if you disagree um I won really can't see me but um uh I would turn that into a draft element for the planning board to review yeah at that meeting and then if you're satisfied we can proceed with the adoption process and if not we'll we'll do edits okay we're gonna add that to the next time um so perfect that ties right into next meeting is June 11th we've already said we've got the three solutions that we didn't do today we will have the hearing for the RQ assing and we'll do best and we will continue with the Land Development part of this checklist as well that'll be on our seems like a good um agenda I am not here okay you can send comments I was just next section there's okay it might not sure isue um when is the Environmental commission meting next it's supposed to be next week but can't they well they had something they wanted to do with the sh Tre commission the sh commission was not available go over the trees and I mean you can for then this thing to tie him with this I would like your their what we're doing now reach out to Chris and ask him about well he wasn't gonna be there anyway he had a conflict okay yeah yeah you could maybe see if they you somehow or at least discuss what we've discussed because I would like that I would to but I think this is important he on the finding board right absolutely this is our opportunity to capture I don't want to go for looking upset I'm not sure about Europe so I here where you going uh Germany and Malta um okay all [Music] right all right so item 15 the bills uh I'll make a motion we audit the bills everybody yeah we need to work on don't think that's possible I mean I I get them some of them I got today and when I get here it's first thing that I do off date if they're not submitted by Friday think it's difficult because especially to this one because we don't have another meeting until June 11th and then it really gets backed up because if there's not enough I have to get escro request list yeah the Letters Out to these applicants and right now the board is very busy and there's a lot of invoices coming in so I really would rather not I mean in the older days I mean I would only have the bills he's sitting here and you would only have them you know pass around it's really no different than any at any time look I mean I could certainly get them and have them here do that at the same time yeah you know out mail and given that they get paid anyway we are really auditing the bills we are not approving them um then it happens whether we see them or not um but then people can vote as they rece fit if they don't feel comfortable they can vote as such so we have a motion and a second to audit the bills R uh yeah Mr cook yes Mr Dash yes mayor car councilwoman yes Miss gin Mr Miss whitesman yeso yes M yes ask car if we have need to Executive do you think we have a need awesome just ask sorry get yeah it's not that late um all right so item 17 do I have a motion to adjourn