##VIDEO ID:phDzORSCT7Y## e e e uh Thursday November 21st 20:06 p.m. and this is a meeting of the town of forland beach cultural and environmental Learning Center Advisory Board uh here at the Town Hall Chambers and uh I would like to call uned States chair and a vice chair and uh with that I'm asking C members to um put forth a nomination for a chair and I want to preface that by saying just because I've served this chair for a number of years doesn't mean that you can't get somebody new so feel free to nominate somebody else if you're so inclined Barber I want to thank you very much for that statement and I would like to nominate bar h not because and I would like to Second it not because she has done it in the past but because she's so darn good at it I third that thank you thank you thank you so much um okay so let's do vone thank you very much and that certifies chair now we'll have Vice chair and that's Betty Simpson and um you like to entertain oh I'm sorry I think it's Sherry excuse me of course Sher like Oh Sherry is our vice chair folks and many but I don't have to be the vi somebody else I'd like to nominate Sher Smith for vice chair I second it in favor of Sher Smith serving yet again for vice chair of say those opposed certifies thater chair for another two years thank you congratulations right so com and we have a couple of people in the audience so please state your name come up and say what you need to say you're saving yours because you're going it's going to be a long meeting okay same all right we'll move on to um I don't see the um approval of the minuts on this agenda you're right let's just do it anyway yeah we'll sure they uh actually um I would like for you to take a look minutes I have several changes I want to make yeah there were a couple in there so if you've not had an opportunity to review the minutes I suggest you do so now comments to make anybody comments okay I'd like to make a um clarification on the first page of the minutes so I think it's a a habit that we probably all do from time to important for the record to state if we're mentioning someone that we would State their first name and their last name uh and in this case with the first uh paragraph uh it referred to um Teresa number one her her name is Teresa with an H so it's t h EA and her last name is CH so I would like to minutes to reflect that um addition um and the um newly hired collections manager uh who lives Brenda varo I would like again for her position to be added uh especially now because she is new so I'd like the minut to reflect her official title which is what what is her official title uh so Brianna's official title is Museum registar registar so she is Museum regist if that could also be reflected in apprciate professional archaeologist but now you're talking about a regist uh yes in the minutes we were reflecting the collection management policy changing changing the language of the requirement in the collection management policy draft to be not just a registered public archaeologist but to be an archaeologist and then Briana is the museum register uh so one is a certification and the second being the title of the staff member allvor uh thank you madam chair so you you noticed the email was quite long uh it's a lengthy report uh in the best interest of time and Clarity I'm not going to read the staff report I email but I have synthesized its main points into a much shorter uh report that i' would like to read out for y'all right now uh so things going pretty well at Mount house and for staff we both overall continued our hurricane recovery from Hurricane Ian as well as continued hurricane recovery from Hurricane Helen and hurricane Milton as well as continued staff professional training uh just some acolytes I'd like to point out uh one not to be uh selfish first me uh not to to my own horn to my horn uh I was uh recently I presented two sessions at the sou Eastern Museum conference one on managing Municipal Rand museums and one on community engagement uh then I was accepted into two programs both with scholarships one the Smithsonian and fma's Heritage emergency at risk training uh seminar which is in Washington DC and the jaal island Management Institute uh hosted by the Southeastern Museum conference uh education programs coordinator Franklin De La Cruz attended the Southeastern Museum conference also as a scholarship recipient U he was a sole recipient of the historic house profession uh Museum professional scholarship through that organization uh in marketing Mount housee ads will run on the fort Meers Beach seasonal tram starting November 20124 through April 2025 and in addition to that we are running through a collaboration with the visitor convention Bureau digital ad campaigns targeting potential visitors in the Midwest and Northeast United States as well as a year-long email campaign through the Lee County visitor convention Bureau as well due to a noted increase in visitors from a direct mailing campaign through a uh separate uh campaign and organization uh we will be continuing direct mailing marketing campaigns starting in December 2024 and continuing until March 2025 to an estimated 20,000 households in the south Florida exuse south Florida Southwest Florida area in terms of facilities the mount house was closed on September 27th and October 7th through October 18th due to Hurricane and hurricane Milton respectively hurricane Helen brought 32 in of storm surge to the grounds and damaged landscape lighting and electrical outlets in the underground exhibit hurricane Milton brought 51 in of storm surge to the grounds and underground damaging more of the landscaping and the entire electrical system blocks and other key facilities of the underground Exhibit while the museum and grounds reopened on October 19th after Hurricane Milton the under remains closed a structural engineer who visited on this past Monday November 20th is currently reviewing the long-term safety elements of the underground exhibit and what we as the town can do to mitigate risk to visitors staff and the overall cultural resources of the mid and the historic Cas house I'll will address this more in uh in a later point in one in one moment uh the historically accurate gutters have been ordered and days for insallation are currently being planned between the vendor and repairs to the damage of the replica living room and Museum Store ceilings from summertime thunderstorms are currently being planned as well to take place next month thankfully the ceiling drop downs tiles were made of painted cardboard so the repairs will be minimum both in cost and time both projects the gutters and drop- down ceiling replacement repairs are covered under FEMA reimbursement landscape lighting has been approved by the town and scheduling for this new project of addition or excuse me uh new landscape lighting along the path connecting the restroom Museum and small parking lot as well as repairing the existing damaged observation perer lighting will be scheduled in coming days in programming in events in October we had 53 visitors to mount housee even with a 9-day closure we still had more visitors in October 2024 than we did in October 2023 three successful events were hosted including our community conversation formerly known as the lecture series with author David web which saw in tend of 10 people and the community conversation with Dr William lassio which saw 19 people in attendance our collaborative event with the mikasuki tribe of Indians of Florida titled real engine real indigenous native art and pop culture saw 62 visitors attend the screening and popup art show so far as of this morning November 9:00 a.m. November 21st we have seen 522 people visit uh so far for November nice uh so that is some general updates and I'll to get to more General uh specific updates which will later be uh discussed I'm sure in great detail and I'm hoping for yall's feedback and advice and guidance uh for the two uh points on the agenda both the new business of the underground area sustainability and the old business of the collection storage but just to briefly highlight that for my staff report uh before we move that into the agenda the underground exhibit after extensive evaluation uh staff has made a difficult decision to strongly recommend the closure of the underground exhibit permanently recent hurricanes have caused significant flooding erosion and infrastructure damage including risk to confirmed simal ancestral burials located near the exhibit these events underscore ethical cult and financial challenges of maintaining this exhibit continuing to operate the underground exhibit conflicts with best museum practices in archaeology and Museum ethics especially without direct collaboration with the seol tribe of Florida and the Muki tribe of Indians of Florida whose ancestors built the mound this decision was made in consultation with the two tribes as well specifically with the staff of the tribes the Sim tribe of Florida's tribal historic preservation office staff including Dominic de Dr William lassio David Shyer as well as Dr Jason Daniel of the doc tribal historic preservation office for the mikasuki tribe of Indians of Florida Dr Michelle LEF director of the Randall Research Center and assistant curate of archaeology at the Florida museum of natural history at the University of Florida Dr Sarah Aris rby the director of the southeast southwest region for the Florida public archaeology Network and Natalie de Sales the southwest Florida region of the or excuse me the public archaeology coordinator for the southwest region of the Florida public Arch archaeology Network excuse me these consultations above do not reflect any demands or statements of support one way or another from the people organizations or tribes listed but only illustrate the diverse and Scholar sources staff have assessed to reach this difficult decision and recommendation all sources stated above added they would support us in our decision to close the underground exhibit in any way we saw fit the closing of the exhibit allows us to redirect resources to develop sustainable educational exhibits across the entire 2.77 Acre Site and inside the museum collaborating with tribal Partners the Florida public archaeology Network and the university University of Florida we will be able to reinterpret the site with updated data new outdoor and indoor displays focused on issues such as climate change resiliency cultural continuity and best practices in cultural heritage stewardship in the 2022 archaeological conservation project resources were already set aside with the town of Fort Mar's Beach the University of Florida and the simal tribe of Florida in the reinterpretation of the gunr exhibit from that 2022 archaeological conservation project um furthermore it should be noted that uh while I was unable to uh communicate with former Mount house director terresa stroberg she did present a poster at the Southeastern archaeological conference on the S the long-term sustainability and the engineering of the underground exhibit um which she was able to develop before hurricane Helen and hurricane Milton the conclusion of her poster stated the closure of the underground would have to be needed would be needed due to the rise of sea level uh Teresa scherg just as a reminder was the principal architect EXC me archaeologist and the person responsible for the creation of the underground exhibit moving on lastly to collection preservation for my staff report to address the urgent need for collection preservation staff is currently planning to repurpose the digging deeper exhibit of the mound house bathroom into a collection storage room this step allows feedback this step follows feedback from ccab during the June 2024 meeting of which staff had was able to revise plans to retain the living room exhibit and cover the replica bathtub instead of removing it after Consulting best practices from the American Alliance of museums and addressing the logistical realities it became clear that alternative storage locations proposed by sellc cap at that meeting unfortunately were neither feasible in the immediate feature nor cost effective to taxpayers we also consulted Dr Michelle Le at the University of Florida and Dr Scott are peer reviewer from the American Lance museums to reach this decision and recommendation this solution ensures compliance safeguards The Collection avoids and avoids unnecessary taxpayer expenses I'll be happy to answer any questions on that or answer them in a more detailed manner as we move them through the uh agenda items thank you Adam uh before we um address the next agenda item I want to uh let the minutes reflect that bety Simpson joined us U during the uh uh staff report so welcome um apologize you traic right um and the other issue is that there were two things that were supposed to be scheduled for the agenda one is the ordinance issue with regard to um updating the 1998 ordinance to reflect the changes uh that had been voting on with regard to advisory boards and specifically cellc cap so that was planned for this meeting actually it was planned for October as you know we cancelled October's Mee oh and here was Jim too hello Jim hello how are you just for the record your manold has arrived yes there you welcome thank you thank you um yes I for the meeting of October that was unfortunately canell because of the hurricane um and so uh those that that item which is the um uh ordinance uh change as well as the collection management policy draft which also is to be discussed um at a ccat meeting but both of those items will be tabled until the uh December meeting because we felt that there were some issues with regard to both the um underground exhibit and the collection that that merited extensive discussion so I just wanted to get that out of the way and can you read yes so the two the underground exhibit and collection storage are being tabled till next month no no the the the ordinance the 1998 ordinance with regard to how our Advisory Board operates um does need to be addressed and so that will happen in December as well as the collection management policy draft which you received uh in October meeting and That was supposed to given you the opportunity to review it at length and then for us to talk about it discuss it and approve it um at an upcoming meeting so this can be an official document but we'll table that for December yes de the Crux of the meeting today has to do with two very important issues number one the underground exhibit and number two collection storage so with that I'm going to hand it back to Adam to talk about uh sustainability res yes so as I noted um with the unfortunate continued flooding of the underground exhibit poses significant challenges um first in the staff's mind is the fact that in the underground exhibit there are known reinterred seminal ancestors has that been certified yes by who by the simal tribe of Florida as is their right as The Sovereign Nation and through federal law but no forensic anthropologist has looked at them forensic anthropology is only one of the several merits that can deemed tribal affiliation under the North American Graves repatriation act and federal law so even if the skull is shown not to be of indigenous people they can still claim it the seminol tribe of Florida claims them as their ancestors as is their right under federal law and there are more than one way to prove lineal descent and cultural continuity under federal law so you're just taking away our underground yeah the underground exhibit as I said faces several several many challenges and how about an engineer coming in without that underground exhibit Sher could you pull that mic so people need to hear I'm sorry about the Sherry Smith without that underground exhibit and I have been here many years and I've been a dosent and have showed that and people are blown away by it it's something that that only we really have I don't see how this can just be taken away from us our Mount house as it a mount house and as a museum will not survive without it I agree I agree I would just say from a from a process perspective to reach this conclusion and to seek seek all the input from other people without coming to cell cab is bad to let us know that you're beginning this process is um is unfortunate at best yes uh just to reach that point first before I address Sherry's Point um I haven't reached a conclusion as noted in my report this is a recommendation and this is why I wanted your input and feedback right now in this public setting to cell cab so I'm here to get your input and advice and guidance but to have taken all the steps that you have taken already in involving so many other outside experts before coming to us and alerting us to the fact that you were considering this is in it's disappointing at best I was I was following the advice of excuse me chairwoman Hill who recommended I seek out expert advice of archaeologists engineers and object other subject area experts to give ccab the full scope of opinions and research so it' be a more robust decision in reaching this in regards to uh member Smith's comments the underground exhibit we'll kind of tackle them one by one it's a burial no it's it's what it's it's not an exhibit it's not an educational resource it's is it there are ancestors buried there yes but not Kusa they are not simal ancestors under federal law as I had having only been involved for the last 15 ISS years well no whatever I have been I have been led to believe that they are are settler people that are buried there yes yes uh and where's I'm sorry to be so Frank um you're asking for proof for the seminal claims but where is the evidence for your claims well that's why we're s suggesting that there be some what's the right term for this pet forensic anthropologist thank you um to to conduct forensic anthropology on remains which were continuously Disturbed both for the construction of the swinging pool by the long family in the 1950s and later by the construction of the underground exhibit from the pool's removal though that was not the intention it did happen and the process by which the remains were reinterred um I will not speak for the similar CH of Florida nor the Muki tribe of Indians of Florida that is not my place this will be an evolving conversation with them but from my understanding in discussing and beginning these conversations as I said this is a beginning of a conversation no decisions have been made that the ancestors that are return interned in the underground exhibit have gone through a lot it's been a traumatizing experience for the indigenous populations and Indigenous communities of Southwest Florida in particular the simal in Muki and this research was reached from the initial archaeological excavations from director scherg the state archaeologist of Florida and the tribal historic preservation office and it was under federal law as recently updated in January of this year the North American Graves repatriation act institutions cannot deem remains culturally unidentifiable Adam it just curious is the impetus for this this recent federal law or is it the fact that we've had all these hurricanes both which which so there's there many decisions so one being one it's a burial so it would be you know there we we don't go to other cemeteries and turn them into attractions or have children play or give field trip tours there are some Cemetery tours but not to the level of a um so you're that we had in the underground exhibit you're inferring that this has been wrong all along not wrong all along it's kind of it's I'm not in a place to judge past actions of you know previous administrations or previous staff members but ethics have been updated so for us to continue the underground opening does pose some ethical uh concerns and if the museum ever wishes to be accredited that would pose a real challenge towards accreditation as well as threaten General accreditation and other ethical considerations of best practi you use the term ethics have been updated how that doesn't I'm trying to understand what that even means how how our ethics updated either ethics or ethics I mean what what what what's updated what does that mean in terms of Ethics that are set forth by the accreditation Institute that is the American Alliance of museums uh they have revised ethics and updated written ethics so it's everyone's on the same page so one of the um for example so last year it was ethical this year it's unethical so in terms of consensus building and through dialogue and listening to experts in terms of the majority of the museum field now has come into alignment that what was appropriate then upon listening to new people especially working with tribal communities it has now been realized you know there may have been some missteps there may have been some errors and we can do better and some things in the past were hurtful to people that weren't involved in the conversation but now those people have been added to the conversation and people have been persuaded based on evidence and dialogue and years and years and years of of research linguistic archaeological historical religious um geospatial um and these ethics have been updated and that has also reflected federal law with the update to the North American Graves repatriation act through a rule change and reinterpretation of that 1990 law in 2024 by the department of interior is is so it's been since 2024 so this is new in terms of the cultural unidentified no so part of it so part of it is from 1990 that is the North American Graves repatriation act there were there was a lot of loopholes let's say in the law and uh I'm not a subject matter expert on nagpra there's entire professions um for example the simar tribe of Florida they have two full-time people dealing just with nagpra as a law CU it's a lengthy process so what has been updated was was some of those loopholes were filled through a rule interpretation a rule change from the Department of interior in January 20124 stopping museums and other institutions from labeling remains as culturally unidentifiable which was hindering the process of returning people's grandparents and to their descendants Adam does our town attorney believe that we'd be in violation of the law if we don't close this facility uh no I haven't been able to speak to to her or the attorney's office in that matter um but one thing that is of concern is it's not necessarily legal compliance more so the ethical compliance set forth by the American Alliance of museums so that's the the first issue and I think that's the most difficult issue um from my understanding for the members here to um for me to convey properly as the information has changed since the time the mount house was update was acquired by the town in 2000 since the time the museum opened in 2015 and most the exhibits and training and programs and tours were developed in Britain by the staff at the time even whenever I started when I started former director Allison geson told me no the clues aren't related to the seminal since then more research has come out just like in any field of science we update our information we update procedures methodologies be better both in educating the public and providing public assistance to Residents taxpayers but also in terms of uh conducting research more effectively and I'm sorry Bara just one more question did so did the seal come to us with these complaints or is it only because we brought it to their attention yes uh no so the seminal Char Florida would never make a demand uh nor the mikasuki tribe uh for us to close the exhibit um the nor would they want like to comment publicly um but based in my initial beginning collaborations and consultings with them and these leading academics in the field of archaeology who are employed by the seminal tribe of Florida um they support our decisions and would support us in closing it and they would support us in a reinterpretation of the site that but they've not they've not made a formal request no sir okay I think I think how this came about initially was that the the last hurricane when it flooded and took out you know all the electronics even at um Milton I think was 51 Ines or something um the the remains were uncovered a little more so we inquired about if a proper burial for for them um and I think that's how it got this ball rolling yes Barbara I have a question that keeps coming up in this whole thing the mound house is a cultural and learning environmental learning experience right when did it become a museum great question um the term Museum was always implied there were people who were our Museum directors I think Allison specifically who felt the word Museum was offputting it didn't really um bring the general public in so she downplayed didn't ignore but downplayed the word museum with any of her presentations and then the um writings and reports um so uh any any facility that is operating as a learning facility that has a collection that has a collection which by the way Mount house from the Inception always had a collection if you have a collection it is implied that you are a museum you are interpreting and exhibiting and educating with regard to the artifacts and the um items that you have in the Museum per se so it is a museum it's been more prominently used as a term now yeah um for example is the Edison house a museum yes they call themselves a museum they call eles a museum but maybe it's not in their title just like before with Allison and probably Teresa too I can't really recall um there would be the mount house but then there would be Mount House Museum just for brevity stake we just would eliminate the museum that's an interpretive not necessarily based on fact okay to follow up then uh has Adam been given the goahead to try to get the mount housee certified as a museum by cell cab it was always implied that we were a museum we've been a museum from the very beginning but certification or you mean the aam yes all it was it was in our it was in our strategic plan that we developed something like n 10 years ago okay that in that strategic plan a long-term goal during Teresa's tenure was that we were looking for aam accreditation absolutely it was it was always a goal so um where the sale cab to direct Adam that it does not wish to go for a whatever it is certification if that's going to be cause issues for the opening of the underground would that be possible anything is possible okay and I just want to point out that through the town and through our literature it is considered a museum mhm exactly and under state law the functions of what we are doing is constituted under State cultural property law as Museum but it doesn't required nobody requires us or any other organization or site to undergo accreditation by a a uh correct but we still have to follow law follow the law yes understand that but you said that the major issue if we kept the underground open would be with the accreditation process would jeopardize our saving yeah and I know with with the accreditation comes a lot of great things for the for the Mountain House itself you know take away the exhibit you lose the best great and you know and I just wanted to interject here because we've been talking a lot about the the ethical part but you know there's there's the financial part too every time we get a flood we have to redo the electrical we have to it it it's starting to shift the the the exhibit itself um it's closed you know over the last two years it's been closed majority of the time and visitorship is actually stayed the same so can we get flood barriers for that I mean the problem is it comes from all sides it comes from the bottom it comes from the top comes from the sides that's that's the issue there I mean we're having trouble even instance with the electric out the ball field it's hard to flood prooof anything yeah at all and I think a lot of people on the island know that too it's really hard unless you go up you know unless you put everything up real high so um you know I there is that financial burden that the town gets too and you know from from the repairs even from Ian we spent about $450,000 on the mound house um we have an annual budget of I think the general fund about $550,000 so we keep doing this and it's going to cost I think we're just for the electrical part um and the AV system it's going to be around 200 $250,000 so it for me I mean for Adam he he obviously has the ethical part of it um but for me it's a financial it's a financial it's a financial thing I mean do we want to keep redoing it you know we're even thinking just for instance for the town we're thinking about raising the gym floor up eight feet so we don't have to go through this every single time and we don't have to spend money taxpayer money every single time and everyone says it's reimbursable but we it comes back to us and we only get a percentage of that reimbursement so you know we've been in conversations and and is it is it a good stewardship for the taxpayer dollars when we don't get as much in return I get I get it that's that's actually my favorite part is the underground I got to tell you the minute I saw it it was great so Adam and I have just been talking about and just today we actually mentioned uh you know is there something we can do to show that off in an exhibit or I know it doesn't have the same effect I totally understand that but it it is a big financial burden for the town you don't so that's just another part of it that that comes into play because we keep having to redo and redo and redo and townwide we're looking for alternatives to not have to keep going through this process if I could interject you you keep talking about redoing the electrical how about the considerations of just restoring it to its native state without any electrical without any embellishments to it and that the exhibit could be people arriving with flashlights and being having a guided tour where it's just in its pristine natural condition U because to not have it it would be like saying well you know we're not going to go down the Grand Canyon anymore because it's whatever yeah the the the whole idea of the mound house is the mound and the house and the mound is the prim Premier attraction which brings people here whenever it's not open people are extraordinarily disappointed to to close that off from them I I think is is is wrongheaded yeah and as far as far as as far as the repatriation of the remains I think we need to engage in forensic what is the right term P anthropologic anthropology it's easy enough to determine if they are if they are settlers that came here in the 1800s or they're Spanish people or or not we we cannot so and I'll address the last Point first why not so because that would be disturbing human remains which is a class three felony in the state of Florida furthermore twisting things I think like I I I think I'm understanding where you're coming from and um and I've sort of known about these interred remains I wasn't supposed to it was it was really going to be kept it just wasn't something we were going to announce and that was and and that was fine and then I then the hurricane happened but I wonder about the ethical considerations of letting people crawl all over the top of the mound exactly exact right does that not preclude closing that whole place as ancestral burial grounds yeah it it is different so one consideration is the exposure of the mound there's there's very different it' just be like if we went to a cemetery and dug up someone's coffin versus walking around the cemetery one is a intrusive and traumatizing Act and the other is a neutral event so the and and as a kid I was told you may walk on the roads in the cemetery do not step on any grav graes exactly do not exactly so you stay on the road don't step on a crack break your mother's back I mean so we can have an exhibit next to the graves though no the whole don't want we don't want to walk on the graves but you don't want you can have an exhibit next to Graves but you don't want to walk on graves by your definition the entire Mount is a very old site the entire Mound en close so do we give it back to I mean give the thing back to the seminal and the mkuki and we lose a whole lot of money and the town pays a million bucks back to the Community Trust I think this is uh one that's not currently something the simal or mikasuki have even suggested uh again this is the beginning of one of the main ethical points there are several other points I think we're getting stuck in the weeds over minute details and in regards to fin I would like to finish my point okay in regards to forensic anthropology under federal law under nagpra tribal affiliation can be proven any number of ways forensic anthropology and DNA is just one of the equal values that go into Federal recognization under the very complex Myriad that is Tribal Law and tribal affiliation especially when it comes to repatriation and Naga writes others being linguistic historical archaeolog archaeological and oral histories all of which have been met by the simar tribe of Florida's tribal historic preservation office and the professional archaeologist and doctorates in archaeology who have proven time and time again that the Kusa the people who are living in the Ranchos the people who lived on Fort Mar's Beach the indigenous people and based on the archaeological data made available to the simal tribe were and are seminal ancestors it how how can you be sure that they are they anent know why why are you saying no I just want to hear your thought Sher I have just always into the mic Sher yeah I'm sorry I have just always been told um through our other directors and people that have um you know done much much research also that these were remains of people that they really did they were not Indian remains that they were remains of people that had been on the mound at some time and I think we need to verify that and that they were white and they were white and that they had been examined and that they were white and this was told to me by somebody who understood about the the you know the grave that whole Negra thing and um yeah I mean if we can if there's I that's an easy solve if there's documentation and the the similar Tri of Florida again and again as I've said have proven cultural affiliation to these ancestors and to how they do do that they do that yeah oral history Linguistics geospatial analysis oral history oral history I mean people can tell all kind stories over 500 to a thousand years under federal law oral history is an equal validation as DNA testing they were not even friends my God I mean we're just we're blowing this up out of proportion it is I I believe that you want to close the underground so this is your means of making and using ethics to do it and I think it's a grave mistake I like the idea keeping it natural let's restore it and put structure structure in it and like you say people go down with flash lights and stuff it's part of the story and without it I guarantee in all of your your 522 visitors how many of them were paid or maybe school children because I am a dosent there has hardly been anybody at the mound house to come and visit if they come and visit and you tell them that the underground is um closed they'll either Vis they'll either leave or they'll ask for a refund it is our I I can't explain archaeologically how special this is and we've devoted many many years to it and just to say oh we're going to close it because of and we've never had any opposition or anything from the seminal tribe ever in the back and I believe Allison did some research with them and it was never ever ever brought up so I think a lot of this is construed and I think without without that mound and it's something that Fort Meers beach has become famous for we don't have to all the lighting we don't have to do anything but I think for a treasur like that just to say oh we're going to close it permanently is a great mistake to the town too because we are not going to make any money I can tell you that can we ask if Susan Grace has any further information that she could present I do in public comment probably only during public comment but she chose to wait she can choose to speak to an agenda item um I don't know that that's that's okay with Council you could you could ask for unanimous consent to proceed out of order Madam chair if you wanted to all is it the um feeling of the cab that we go out of order with regard to public comment yes okay remove Barbara can we remove the three limit uh maximum per speaker if we so deem ABS okay thank you for now Susan would you like to come up I don't know where to start uh I think the first my name is Susan Grace and um and your association with the m house my association with the mountainous is I am the Widow of the great grandson of HC who built the mound house itself uh Bill my husband was very implemental in getting the mound house purchased getting the working with the different directors from ardan Arrington to to to Teresa you know all the all the directors anyway um as I said I don't know where to start I think one of the things that might clear things up is that uh I have been in contact with Teresa Scher Dr Scher and uh she did tell me that bill served on with representatives of the seol and the mikasuki on a committee that was organized per the Florida state statute 8725 by then a and then with also with the state archaeologist Ryan wheeler which I some of you may have already met and know him um there was an inadvertent discovery of human remains in the fill surrounding the swimming pool the outcome of the committee with with these all these different people was that the reburial of the site following the construction of the exhibit Teresa was was uh designated Steward of the remains until the time of excuse me of reburial which she personally did with my husband present in the late uh 2011 or 2012 she wasn't real sure about about whether it was before Christmas or right after and she said she'd have to look at that uh she also said that the underground room was designed for water to rise and fall now we know she certainly didn't expect Ian none of us have and we we you know uh she said that she presented that at the Southeastern archaeological conference in Williamsburg Virginia last Friday and that she would be happy to come in December she'll be here in town in December and also in January and she would love to address cell cab and clarify some things now I do have one thing that I'm I'm really perturbed with Adam did did I hear you correctly in saying that Teresa recommended the closure of the underground I thought you you said that she she she spoke and she recommended closure uh did anyone else hear that b based on her poster presentation on the poster presentation it said the underground would eventually have to be closed due to CEO rice well okay if everything gets buried of course we all have to move off the is that's all they said too much she said that that was completely the opposite she did not present it that way and that she doesn't even know how you would know about this poster because you weren't there she I this was just 15 minutes ago she's very perturbed about this that that you're representing her incorrectly um gosh I have so many things I I'm sorry guys uh one of the things that you brought up and and I felt too is that if you don't know where anything any other human remains are buried so the entire side is a burial ground and it should be then closed according to your your uh premise your response no I mean we're we're we're playing with atlal and we're running around and we're shooting fake deer and we're we're doing all kinds of things and playing games and eating picnics and dropping food and so is if if it if it's a burial ground maybe we better not be doing that uh I'm going to kind of take another whole whole shift here um most or a lot of the funds to restore the moundhouse and to do the exhibits and so forth were done through grants and those grants have strings ATT attached to them we we can't just say okay we'll take the money oh guys we're going to close the the the exhibit now that's just not what you do to people and that's what not what you do to Grant givers uh so we have a responsibility to uphold what we said we would do with that money and what we said we would do was to to exhibit and educate people I know I've got a lot of other things but but I I hope I've made my point here thank you so Susan would question though so what when they when this committee did review The Remains was there a determination of the The ancestral category that they would fall into no no and they and they they didn't feel that it was necessarily I mean I guess I have to tell you that maybe those bones are my husband's ancestor M you know his his his grandparents and great-grandparents liveed there quite for quite a while could be the Gilberts they they Homestead it and we know that they have a couple of their children died early you know so we don't know and we don't know yeah we don't know thank you thank you thank you there are ways to determine the absolutely that's it so so say that that shouldn't be done because they have already been claimed doesn't seem like there's really enough U hard evidence that would be admissible to say that that they should be claimed by by by the seminal as being collusive remains we don't know can I move to table this issue and till we get F information or is or is there people who want to go ahead and can it also be moved to not approve the uh staff recomendation yeah yeah I think that is your option I mean I think that um um if there's further discussion clearly I mean I think we're well on our way to having everyone Express their opinion about exactly what is the right thing to do not only for the mount house but for the town because we do serve the town of Fort Meers Beach we want to do what's best for the the community going forward um with in light of new uh uh information in light of new research in light of new discoveries um and the fact that uh hurricane Ian exposed bones that we were not prepared for uh and that brings up a whole new issue about you know the authenticity of the Bones the leg legality of even operating a mount house knowing those bones are there brings everything into question so I think what we're doing today is as far as I'm seeing raising many more questions for which we don't have answers so I think maybe the idea of continuing this conversation or tabling it until we get further along um I think is a good one so um I would certainly ENT um a motion if that is what the what cab wants I'd like to hear what Betty has to say yes you'd like to what here what Betty has to say bet oh I I've been blown away by all of this pull that mic down Becky or Betty I'm sorry there you go I've been I mean from the very first words that we heard and uh that there was going to be a possibility of closing this I mean I know that we've had issues we've had hurricanes we've had all these other things that have come up that was not our doing that was something that U Mother Nature I shouldn't maybe I can call him father nature exactly be probably more appropriate for the most recent events that's for sure yeah you know and uh so I I've really been AED by everything that was said and uh I guess in my heart very disappointed you know I mean it's been frightening to me this is something that we started many many years ago many of us have been on there for a long long time and uh uh it's near and dear to our heart and to be told that it will be gone uh to me it was shattering and uh uh really breaks my heart and uh that's one reason that I said I want to work on the cell cab again because I think it's the gem of our Island and uh I guess I was just thrown by the comments that were made and uh unfortunately I haven't been able to go to some of those lectures and I know that they've been very educational and uh a lot goes into those things but I'm not sure we're we're on the right page right now and this bothers me and uh I hear the comments from from Susan and the background that she and and her husband have had uh I mean it just kind of shatters my heart yeah so uh that's where I'm coming from I'm sorry I wonder about if if we set aside the um the the problem of the remains which I understand is something that I think we need to to deal with somehow in some way closing the underground what does that say to us who live in buildings that have apartments on the first floor get out I'll tell you move off Fort Meers Beach it's not habitable what are you saying as what are you saying if you close that because of the danger of seed level rise without maybe working around the problems of the electricity and the AV and all that other kind of stuff is it um and what is the difference between showing a picture of what it looks like the face of that mound or going actually inside what's the difference or walking around on top of it or walking around on top of it at what point if we go further do they close the whole park right Jim I would let your thoughts well my questions to Adam were just for clarification just to better understand the issue um it doesn't appear as if we're in violation of any kind of federal law but we very well may be certainly a good question for our town attorney um it doesn't appear as if any of these Native American tribes have approached us with any challenges it sounds like there's some additional information that's come to light to the director and he's presenting it today um I I'm I do believe this island is becoming more resilient with amazing Technologies and given the fact that the mound house is and there's a dispute about this but I it's either the first or the second highest point on the island if we can't protect that then we're in real trouble uh and there's a lot of new technologies that are expensive but probably worth the cost to try to make it more resilient and I do love this idea of making it more natural and making and more reverent probably as a result of that uh and so there's a lot of opportunity for discussion and I appreciate your passion on this but I think I think we need to kind of certainly flush this out a lot more because that underground underground exhibit is is is is is really part of the institution and there's got to be a way there's got to be a path where everybody can everybody's concerns can be addressed I think and that's certainly would be my hope then I'd like to make a motion to table this issue upon further study could I discussion if we table it though what action are we going to take that's my my fear it'll get lost so let's let's have an a few action items as part of the tabling and that is is to to get answers to the questions that were raised today well like was speaking with the town attorney for example yeah speaking with the town attorney finding out about the possibility of forensic I'm sure you got somebody out at Florida G Coast that could well they been they have been there Excavating and helping already and this issue never came up yeah so I think we need to answer those questions I think to make the assumption that that there the remains of of the Ancients is is that's premature it's premature yeah and I think I sorry to interrupt this conversation but I think another piece of it and I think Jim you had stepped out is is are we able to financially sustain redoing it when we have floods I mean the mound yes it's the highest point and everything on top is great but this isn't on top this is so that's just another thing to consider I'm not I'm not saying either way I'm just saying you're right Jim it only takes money what I would challenge you as a public works director Jeff is to contact as many academicians as Adam contacted in his ethical research and there's probably just as many Engineers who might have some interesting insights and maybe some interesting new new approaches on how to tackle that I'm not an engineer but but there's a lot smarter people than I am out there that may have a an Innovative solution that maybe we could that could partially you know maybe never solve it permanently because of its unique stature but I mean Ian was very unique and and and maybe there's some maybe there's some technology out there that yeah and we're not I just like every other property we're we're looking at our best options to mitigate any cost of the tax you're becoming an expert on this through your work so so maybe you're you're also running into really smart people who have Solutions and maybe that's I we could do what Tampa hospital did and barricade it off but I'm not sure taxpayers had that much money yeah there are fundraising barriers we have two concrete walls that are about what four and a half five feet Hall on either side yeah and there are existing barriers that could be shoved in there to stop uh FL water yeah we have flood proof doors but it's coming in from the top and the sides and and the bottom the bottom it's coming in through the mount so to seal it you would be but my understanding it raises up like a bathtub so it's not that you have storm surge as in the force of the wave cor there's not as much force really and I'm just I'm I'm with you and I'm also you know what I'm hearing what Adam's saying but we I think that the idea put forth of treating this as a natural situation where we use flashlights to point out things yeah and then you're not talking 200,000 to redo all the theils we still have to have certain precautions lights to come on so there are there are some things we can't just totally eliminate like we don't have to have the AV system we don't have to have that but there are certain safety protocols that we need and maybe a platform I mean they could step up we wouldn't have to show the entire shell Mount if we had you know I I think when we when we um are having this conversation about the mount house we have to bear in mind that every person whether they're volunteers or staff or the um principal leaders the museum directors did what they did based on the knowledge that they had at the time and so there's no bad vibe that comes out of any of this this happened because I revealed the bones that all of a sudden started a new conversation that none of us have ever had to deal with before this is all very new very disturbing it cuts us to the Core no doubt um so I think if we've to your point um getting some new technology get looking additionally at what are the opportunities for using that underground exhibit in a less invasive way with electronics and so forth might be the best solution overall but not um necessarily in my opinion not necessarily saying we need to permanently close it down to today so I would love to see some additional study done I'd like to know what the town attorney has to say I I you know as far as the seals and the mikasuki I think I understand from Adam is that they're not going to say yes or no they they've merely made this aware to us that we really didn't realize before so we can take that information for what is worth iy go ahead I'd like to know what my happen if we made the Underhill family or the the Gilberts the Gilbert family aware of this and and wondered if they were very passionate about claiming the remains should they be tested to be part of their family good luck finding them oh that's true I mean we had we had a how long ago oh well five years but there were 11 kids okay so I'm sure that there's a lot of Gilbert still around yeah yeah yeah we had them uh anyway so do I have a second to my would you please State your motion my motion is to table this issue until we can number one let me let me stop and say uh I'm in trying to communicate with the University of Georgia archaeologist Victor Thompson and I based on their visit in 2022 right before the hurricane and maybe another one after it I'm not sure they're writing a report on it and that would be something that we would like to look at whenever it comes out it's not out yet so anyway I'd like to see that we get more scientific information about the uh uh what did you say you you had itology to table to get a forensic anthropologist to look at whatever remains that exist and that we uh look for other ways to reopen the mount housee for less than the $200,000 it may not include all the bells and whistle but does give visitors in the presence of a dosent ideas of what it what it's like what it was like and all the Myriad of types of shells under there and that uh we in general eneral try to find ways to keep it open given Financial given uh the the nacra and given uh ways of doing that I don't know if I've said that precisely or not I'm going to second that for discussion but then I'm going to ask about what are the questions we want to which you just but I think we would have to understand that should the remains be proven somehow scientifically to be Native American that another that raises issue for the entire property exactly it raises an issue for the property that's true exactly that's true so yep which but every story we've been told is that they were on the surface and may have fallen in gotten you know whatever yeah I mean that's what I've been told when I was writing my book is I wanted fact I wanted to include a cranium picture Allison don't do that don't do that yeah you know to to avoid issues like this even if you could look at it and tell it it is not indigenous did you talk to Dr Mar about that maror about uh the the remains that did not okay that did not come up in our discussion uh Madam chair okay and yes I would like to for Adam to respond so if we'll put aside the ethical considerations that we've been discussing and even the identity of the individuals who are interned there let's put that aside for a second um as Jeff has pointed out there is the financial both in terms of repairing not just the the electrical system which is about $26,000 there's also the doors $88,000 the air conditioning unit $3,000 um the lights for safety like the exit sign so those are things that should be accounted for in our decision-making process as well as there has to be light source of some kind for the room for safety would the board be in favor of building a new structure next to the museum to house utilities and where is the electricity going to come from so the I'm just these are just considerations I'm just suggesting maybe we make it into a natural space but much like the Grand Canyon is a natural space And as far as the exit lighting signs I would I would suspect that there might be some portable kinds of things that at the opening of each day that they be put up and that they be removed at the end of the day so that it's it's a non nonissue can s during a hurricane and then securing in terms of blocks of course I mean those things but those things areis I don't think we can go with that air conditioning and you just have the doors open when you have people in there um Sher how long did it take us to get the doors fixed oh to fix just the locks how long oh boy a couple years part of that was because some of us couldn't open the thing could with the key some of us and and I think the doors were put in much sooner than the locks were fixed part of that was the whole supply chain yeah the whole supply chain but the other thing is and I agree you know it can't bleed Fort Meers Beach Town dry it can't on the other hand as you're looking at the cost of an electric or whatever kind of um resiliency that we might come up with there are a number of things you do for with I mean it takes forever to put all the shutters on the on the house itself so there are things that could be done in the case of a hurricane coming um that could waterproof could you take stuff out but but I wonder you also have to figure in the loss of income right it's the only thing that puts us apart and then you take away the puzzles and the digging deeper and you've lost a whole another part and that leaves the two exhibits upstairs exactly and then to so that's one consideration another consideration is the point you just brought up in terms of Revenue the the numbers don't seem to align with the antidotal information yall have provided as in your um volunteering um the the visitors the data that we're collecting the staff are collecting who are there when the Museum's open Wednesday through Saturday 9:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. those 30 odd hours they no one's made a comment about the underground I've never heard staff haven't informed me of any refunds or complaints or demands by visitors um nor to my nor have we issued any refunds from come back to come back oh it's not open now we'll come back when it's open my my staff who've been there for 32 hours a week haven't told me that information so that's surprising to hear um from your oh they do okay so I'll look into that um second in terms of business sense I think what you brought up is a good point the underground is a main exhibit there's no point to visit the Museum without the underground I don't want the underground to clo I love the underground I I don't want to be here making this very impassioned persuasion and doing all this work and I don't want to put the town or staff or um or anyone under distress that's the last thing I want I I I love the underground I think it'd be really cool unfortunately the the presence of I said I'd leave it alone but body bodies but putting that back aside but also the logis iCal constraints um it takes a lot of Staff time and energy and a lot of money and planning to reopen the underground we hurricane en was in September 2022 the main Museum thankfully because of its elevation like Jim pointed out um at nearly 13 ft of elevation thankfully the main museum with its five exhibits was able to reopen in only uh a few months in April 2023 three however we could even get the doors fixed to open the underground not not even an exhibit or lights just opening it for people to go inside in December 2023 um even if we moveed forward after every storm it would still be closed for several months so there is a concern I have with um putting you know all our eggs in one basket when it comes to the Mount house experience it'd be like like um I've been using I've kind of thought of it like Space Mountain at Disney World you know it's a a aess attraction it's disappointing if it's closed but there are other things you can do so I would I've been thinking in the sapen thinking ways that we can diversify the Mountain House experience to show the education of the other you know parts of the mount because you know the mountain isn't just the underground it's an amazing profile Rich archaeological data but we needed that back yeah we needed that comic yes um but also ways to install additional exhibits not just to update the current exhibits with this new research that we've been learning so much with academics um from the University of Florida the University of Georgia with this new research but also adding new outdoor interpretive signs throughout the grounds to really utilize the entire property so whenever there is a storm and the exhibit does close unfortunately with these more frequent and intense hurricanes with our underground exhibit which is only at I don't know if it's elevation but it's considerably lower than the mount house 13 ft no the underground exhibit 13 ft below the Tope of the the high of the mount house isn't it isn't the mount house 30 the top of the mountain 13 ft I've heard that I I don't know an official measurement I heard 14 yeah Jim even Jim's comment we're not really quite sure if it's so we got yeah there's some dispute whether they bout it but I just on that point though Jeff if you would be so kind becausee you've you've now given your Public Works hat that you wear you've met probably every every contractor every Builder on this island you know who the good ones are and who the bad ones are somebody's got to have a good idea through sum pumps and dehumidifiers maybe they could come up with a system that could work well for that particularly given a more natural approach to the to the visitor uh I I Has there have to be smart people out there that could figure this out yeah I mean I agree I mean those people would probably making a lot of money on this island if we could figure that all that out um that's I think that's why everyone's supposed to be raising their their houses up you know so we don't have this and you know I know people that you know with the financial burden they've moved or sold their house because they can't go through this every single year right you know so that that in my mind that I kind of use that analogy and not that like Adam said I do not want it I don't want this to close I don't I I love it I bring people down you know show it when it's actually open um but you know we got to figure out something that works um and I know yes we can fund raise but the town already kicks in around $550,000 a year on their general fund to support the mound house which is amazing I'm not saying we we shouldn't do that but at some point we gota we got to look at at costs and what goes back to the taxpayers so just something to consider I'm not saying that's what it is but and then just one last Point um again removing the ancestors there's still the erosion to the archaeological resources I mean each time there's a storm I mean some of the shell tools and parts that us dosant would point out before Ian before Irma before Wilma before Charlie each time they're gone so every time the exhibit floods even a little bit every time a shell Falls that's more of that history that's eroding away that original context is being lost especially with the um surface to subsurface flooding you know the door that allows you to go we can't open that door anymore because there's been additional cavens from the shell miden collapsing in on the the human maid the the the modern structures I should say so there's going to be continued erosion so what does this exhibit look like in 10 years after goodness forbid five or 10 more storms 10 more storms were all going to be going I would cont I would contend that you're saying it's destruction actually I would say that it is it's presenting it's presenting a new profile and it if 10 years from now it is so der so eroded that there is no profile anymore I think that's wouldn't happen the discussion I think it's way premature I've heard you both say you really don't want to close it but then can can you both look and work together to see if you can't find a way that we can financially practically and ethically keep it open yeah I think I think that's you know in Adam's opening remarks he just said recommendation he didn't say we're going to do it you know this is obviously open this is part of the cell cab disc discussion on closing it I think there's there's arguments obviously both ways obviously um and strong opinions both ways and how you how you look at it and depending on what side you're on you know it's like anything else you you have your opinions on it which is is fine that's great that's why we have advisory boards and then it goes to the council to the dually elected people to make that determination right and are they gonna listen to well I well let me let me just say for I can't speak for my colleagues but I sort of can because I've served with them for a long time now I would be stunned if they would take any action that would be contrary to the cell cab recommendation so they they will look to this committee for guidance on this issue thank you that makes we appreciate that very much you had from Council and also from you in addition so thank you so um one thing that we do have in our favor is we have a very prolific fundra ing group the friends I mean we we are a very industrious group on our in our fundraising and we could hold a fundraiser I mean if this got known on the island and other things I think we could hold a big fundraiser and I think we could pulling quite a bit of money save the save the underground and with a specific purpose of this is what we're going to do this is what we're going to do with that purpose it's just an idea but I think that we could have and we have talked mitigation wise of and I know looking around no one like the idea of another structure on on the mountain but even I'm telling you we're just I'm talking townwide and what our facilities the uh the switch gear at at the ball field it's been underwater for so we're actually raising it up onto the second floor um I think you can see that town wide everybody's raising it up our generators our air handlers everything are all going up so I mean I I think if we keep having these discussions depending on which way it goes I think there's got to be some some compromise both ways to where we may need to raise it up and put another but it it's just all thoughts it's all ideas right now but you know there are also things that we need to to look at and and and find out and part of it is doing more a little more research on the ethical part and if that's the case then I need to have an open mind about that too like if it's if it turns out whatever it is that I mean I I really do love the underground and then we were just talking today about if there's if there's some way to preserve it in Plexi or do something we've been thinking about ways over these past couple years to really try to make it work with those shells and with with the underground so I I I know everyone's passionate about it that's that's a big reason why you all are on this this committee is because for your passion for Mount house and Newton Newton Park and the cultural aspect of this island um I it's a big topic I I understand I do understand that and we've been it's not like we've been sitting on our thumbs just like oh maybe they'll just let us close it that's not our that's not our thought and that's not what we want but we have some factors that we needed to present um and that we need to talk about okay we have a motion on the we' seconded by Betty research and the financial and stabilization and looking at ways to keep it open keep it open and funding so to consider those issues uh and we have a second yep okay and uh any further discussion that we want to table this conversation get additional information look at all of the factors both financial and ethical and legal and um come back uh in December or we could even table this for a January discussion I'd like to table January because it'll take that two months for it to get some ideas honestly it's the way it's going with contractors and what we need to do to the underground it's going to be a while again agreed and if it's longer than January we just table it again no I mean not that but just we don't we don't financially we don't have a lot of money to reopen it as we want it to be well so again I think what the conversation that I'm read hearing is based on this new reality based on the fact that we've had five Storm surges in a little more than two years indicates to me that our way of doing business with the mount house underground exhibit was X we can no longer do X we are now looking at y keep it natural keep it you walk in you get a sense of the scope of that uh exhibit not with the bells and whistles just keep it simple uh and that's kind of what I'm hearing from everyone okay so uh let's we have a motion we have a second we have discussion all in favor I oppose none okay motion carries thank you so much Madam chair I apologize I have I'm I'm double booked and My bride is is critical uh in terms of my return so I just I wondered if I might just I might if I if I just wanted to say just a quick update that I I men I asked Jason Freeman who's been doing the research on the Newton Park expansion to the Strand View Property we we're trying to procure that property through the various land trusts that still I had I had him I asked him to give a report to the publicly to the Council on Monday and uh he did so and they are actively engaged with two different land trusts but he's also found another potential two grants that might be able to help the town of Fort Meers Beach procure that land nothing definitive yet but it's very active uh process and they also said it was apparently list I think he said 11 million it's listed for right now just to give you a sense of that dollar talked to Jason about that as well and discuss that now yeah um most of those Land Trust grants are at the most a couple million so we' either have to come up with a fundraiser or something and again like I said like I've been sing with all the properties and even the pool we just need the money for it and we'll do it I mean can I interject here real quick um I know I'm media Guru but um Fort Meers Beach receiving 13 million in Federal Grant and Jim love you to death and you know that um but you basically said you know it was going to Newton and this and um I think it was Bay House don't quote me on that but I know it was Newton was in in the article um and now here it is two years later and I'm like going now it's back to a construction site again which I understand that we have to fix things but at the same time we have $13 million that we were under the impression was going to the to the to certain things and I'm like going okay so when are we going to start working on those things I know you're working on the pool which is great I went and checked all that out but I'm yeah okay so I'm just saying I just like to know a little it's a great question I'm so glad Jeff is here because he wears so many hats but as a result of Helen and Milton that created additional challenges but the money is there Jeff correct and you you want to just give an update good question obviously we we we announced the funds were we we were awarded for um specifics like Newton Park um the pool and our our water towers yes so um those funds have not although that we were approved for it they have not been allocated yet there's a lot of steps because it's a federal program that we probably won't be allocated until January at the earliest maybe so we can't even really start the process until then um we did have and that that's with the pool too we we can't really do anything until we get we have the money now we did the is it the r2p 2 what were we here for that Workshop yeah yeah that was when they they had the planners come in we so they they're they're just finalizing the report and you know they had done a kind of a conceptual thing with with input of the general public that was invited for Newton beach park and um there I think they want to present that we just got the final one in like five minutes before this this I haven't even seen the final report I saw the final report but uh hopefully that'll get to council here soon and then we can they want to present it to council first uh the whole project you mean the aggregate project and then and then it'll come peace me to through cellc okay got you okay yep and then we can talk about if you like the design if you don't um I thought we already approved a design at one point like didn't we talk about that um I have to go back and look at my we did but we didn't have the funding at that point I think we we like it was the conceptual drawing that we did barer on there when we did it with the community uh community meeting that we had for it um so but it I've kind of seen that one and I I honestly like it but that's obviously up for you you all to to have your input on um we believe it's not probably going to have a oh to your point so the the funds aren't there yet uh the 13.1 million be I just want to finish that point first um you know to do that we obviously we can think of ideas and and all that but uh it's not us for us to go forward with it yet we will have it but funds haven't got to us till maybe January so so if strand view is acquired then would it be basically expanded expanded on so that it would just become yes yes all of that that would just be a one big wonderful part Jim you guys talking about imagine everything again a new name Ellen vrand View Park we just need money oh yeah no just strand View Park okay yeah but I mean yeah to your point you we were we did say we we are going to receive the money we have not yet and um they had I think it was I think it was all all the way through December that they were still using it as the beach renourishment project um so we of course we were ready and I think last time I reported that we were ready to start putting the the restroom trailer and but then we got another three feet of sand on there so now we're it's been uncovered that not a different uncovered not what we were talking about before um that our water line we can finally we can move it to where we want um and put the trailer back there and and do the parking and it's only going to have like maybe eight spots there um but the beach access will be there too for now and then and then once we get those funds allocated we we do the whole process with okay I've been looking at the design and what you all want to see the swings are included by the way uh in I think in their design that was one of the things we had talked about in that that that public meeting so right then we'll go forward with it um and it's one of those things again I want it to be a construction site no not at all do I want this back here to be a construction site no well I just feel like we're missing revenue and I love the parks don't get me wrong but I feel like we miss Revenue by not having you know parking there cuz that people are parking there and people are parking down the street people are parking in front of buds old building that are you know is about ready to fall down but you know we're missing revenue on that part of it that drives me crazy that's kind of like okay I get it that we got to have room for construction stuff but you know we need the money I mean Bott line yeah there's we plan on doing that we we had to switch out the restroom trailer I can go into a little detail about that the uh both the palm and this one it was set up in a in a strange way where it really doesn't accommodate a lot of sand so we had to switch out the toilet and put a regular one in for direct sewer because this had a what's that called impeller whatever it is that that kind of eats up everything break kept breaking so we have done that that was done last week um to put new toilets in both so it's ready to go Master here that's it y thank you um so those Chang put that in so so it's ready to go we have the trailer we just have to our utilities guys are going to plummet in we have to run maybe 25 feet of pipe from the water m and then put hook it up to the sewer and then so still going to be a little bit of process but we're ready to hit that running and then there'll be like I said about eight spots we don't want to overload it and and we you know with 8 spots and everything too well takes up a little bit of room so um we're planning on that well again hopefully weather permitting will be these reoccurring storms have thrown all off so I understand how you could become impatient Carri but you know the reality is and I know you're dealing it with with the Oro place as well we're all behind schedule with our lives while we deal with these the storm dour right I been there have been five right five Storm surges in two years and three months I mean that's outrageous and I can tell you unprecedented yes Cher there's just we were just talking about something came to my mind when we talking about Newton Park is what someone suggested to me and I've heard it mentioned on television is maybe considering with grants but as far as it being a park and like you know playground equipment and stuff I wonder if we've ever thought of putting something specialized in for autistic children it's not part of our mission though the mission that's a passive Recreational Park um that I don't know it's just something that's becoming more but you know that's a good point because we've been talking about Beach accesses too and putting you know this Fitness this Fitness National Fitness court has been wildly popular I mean there's people out there a lot every day and groups of them and putting certain things at each beach access like equipment you know some of those freestanding things like Lakes Park has um you know maybe doing that at some of the beach accesses but yeah I mean incorporating those there too would be good um I like that as as long as it's recomendation based and the swings they C that's Recreation these swings aren't going to be playground swings no these these These are Arch so they have an artistic value to them and you're obviously watching the sunset where you're swinging out into the ocean it's my dream and I can tell you that we were down there we did my family did family pictures down by Newton just by the by the water and my son had to go to the bathroom real bad man I wish we I to run them over to public and so yes we and we know that that not to your point it's been a construction site it's interrupted like everyone else it's interrupted people's lives and you know unfortunately it hasn't been the greatest situation but it is the hand that were dealt and if we had other property if we had stuff we could bring over to Lovers Key you know but we just when we're in an emergency we have to do what we have to do and unfortunately it affects people I apologize for that but um it's just been a little delayed to put put that back together but we want that par you're certainly getting a PhD in dealing with emergencies unfortun than definitely thanks Jim it's been thank you Jim you it doesn't get easier every time I me just the amount of sand that's coming on you know the destruction it does every single time and I think we've been trying every every to you know not get water in any of our buildings but you know I we spent the night that sounds weird but Tom manager and I were here that night we didn't spend the night to really we spent we we were here during uh Helen and the water came up to you know almost to the top of the trailers to the the base of the trailers and we were like what if this keeps coming what do we do what do we do and we were during melting we're like no we're not we will not do again like we were're advising people to get off the island we need to do the same you know we we don't want to be a part of this part of the problem that someone might have to go so yeah even those little things like oh we're we're heroes we're going to stay and I'm not saying we're heroes but you know that we need to be on the island well for melon we were on water to reced and we were on by like 12:30 in the morning so and it was fairly safe to you know to be on here but we were just trying to clear the roads but yeah it's been uh we've gotten education for sure and you did well all new there's there's always critics but let's move on we've got collection storage on our agenda and going back to Adam um you've all received the information with regard to the um collection storage plan of 2425 I don't know if you've had an opportunity to read through it yes um so uh with that Adam you want to just go ahead and oh I didn't get you got this it's in an email you got halfway through okay did you not print out this here it yeah it away all right so just to um because it's been a while in terms of a review of the collections um so just in terms of just going through this handout uh what is in the collection our collection is a vast majority of um indigenous artifacts from the kaloa and Rancho period um over the course of six archaeological excavations that were conducted over nearly a decade in the uh early 2000s there are some documents uh about the Town Mountain TS films there's some micropiles records uh there's some historical Decor as well if you look on the second page um titled where is the collection currently uh th that is a photograph of our current collection storage the photograph on the uh right that is the workspace for the town's Museum registar in the collection storage uh the location is 45 minutes Drive without traffic um off I75 um and there's no cell service or internet service in this current uh space which is a safety hazard for not only the collection but also for Briana and any staff there um there's no security for the collection um let alone pest mitigation or other factors to take care of the collection uh there's no temperature control and the light goes off automatically every five minutes so Briana has said run out into the hallway and dance around in front of the sensor to have lights to write and catalog um the artifacts are currently in their original grab bags when they were excavated it is a best practice for artifact bags to be changed once a year uh or excuse me not once a year for the artifact bags to be changed when there's signs of deterioration um there's a photos on later on but there are several of those original grab bags that have deteriorated where the plastic has dissolved from the acidity of the soil that makes up the archaeological collection wow and there's also uh a lot of those that original data that many of you all were a part of inerting to catalog and identify those archaeological collections um a lot of those markers that were written on the bags have faded away to near elgibility and with it the data um so sorry to say the collection is in poor condition and is in danger very very big big danger um so I brought this initially to y'all in June 2024 remember where it's tabled um and I took that feedback and we modified the plan to not touch the living room you remember my original plan that I proposed in June I proposed switching basically the bathroom into living room yes putting the living room in the storage and putting what storage into so doing kind of a a a rotation I don't know how else to say it um so upon hearing your concerns and your guidance we revised that plan not only to uh take out one of those rooms from that equation so the living room it's not being touched or moved uh in this plan but the new plan is to uh basically uh build a temporary shelving area on top of the replica bathtub so we don't have to touch or move the bathtub um thus saving money time and then leaving it there so in the future if you know we get $3 million to BU able to collect storage building next to mount house which would have all the bells and whistles of uh a quarantine room pest mitigation a closet for storage we would be able to reinstall the bathroom exhibit uh or whatever exhibit you know we wanted but the bathtub would be there um basically we would only be removing the sink which is kind of just sitting on top of the tile it's not con really connected in any strong manner um I think there's like a couple screws holding it to the wall so it doesn't fall over not Plumbing obviously no it's not Plumb operation exactly so removing that placing that safely in collection storage um and being porcelain it doesn't face the same conditions that the archaeological collections of or the archival collection like the original Gilbert deed which is just in like two folders put together because we don't have the material to properly house it um that original Homestead deed uh it's actually just sitting on a box on top of the collections currently because that's the best place we have for it unfortunately that's not the right answer but that's the best we have right now so in this plane we're hoping to make the situation better so basically as I said um removing the sink and removing the uh kios and removing the two magnifying stations I guess I'll put them like that that way moving the moving the sink and one of the kiosk to uh temporary storage moving one of the kiosk and updating it to have a little bit more resources and pictures of the archives that we have some of the collection some more educational components the town currently uses this program you may have seen if you came into the museum there's a rotating slideshow of upcoming events above the ticket counter that program has a great opportunity to be also for an educational experience to kind of update that kiosk instead of just the the pointand click system well sometimes point and click it is you know it's 10 years old so starting to show its age in fact both the Kos are are currently not functional um there's just uh numerous reasons mostly technological um so and then moving those two magnifying glass stations into the ancient people's exhibit so still tying in together the archaeology in the ancient people's exhibit and then for with this new almost empty room again the bathtub still there uh being able to place uh shelving not drilled into the walls or drilled into the tile in any way but metal shelving that's insulated and protected that wouldn't cause rust or deterioration or further uh vies as they're known in uh collections Management on the collections and there's enough room to install this shelving self-standing shelving excuse me uh as well as having Bas you can see on the last page there's a diet the diagram of it yes on the second to last page you can see kind of a rough illustration uh the only difference is um that shelving on the right will be moved up because again the bathtub will remain um and there'll be a workstation and then we'll install a door that matches the exterior of the two closets so it Blends in nice and the only exception is it would have a large um for lack of terminology we're still researching the best material plexiglass window so visitors can see not only the collection and help you know engage people educate people get people excited and you know see Banna working um no songs or dances probably but uh at least working on the collection and seeing preservation in action and archaeology in action um and which also opens not only a place for the collections to be in a safer environment again it's not the best option but it or me it's not the uh the perfect option but it's the best option uh cuz again the collection's in very poor condition and our goal is to create a stable storage environment for the collection an efficient workspace for Museum staff and visitors and volunteers and also utilize it as an additional stream of revenue for the museum with behind the scenes tours um it'll be probably the shortest walking distance of the tours we offer but it would be a uh an additional uh behind the scenes of seeing you know what is what's Banna currently working on what is she cataloging and there's a huge amount of our collection that it's extremely fascinating that Banna can start working in a safe um environment not just for her but the collection as well that would not only have us allow allow us to have an inventory and a proper collection and actually assession some of these things which would not only be good for possibly future exhibits down the road um for uh if there's an excess of material or or a material is you know we have this potery Shard but we have this Pottery Shard as well and this one's kind of cracked and not as nice as this one you know museums have what's known as education collections where there are real artifacts that can be used for educational purposes or maybe for researchers you know University of Florida University of Georgia around the world they can come in and we can designate some of the collection as um for research purposes and it opens up a lot of exciting opportunities to really um uh really exciting opportunities to move the museum forward and really get to show off this amazing collection that we have that's mostly uh archaeological and some of that archival material as well to show really that full scope of 2,000 years of History um so that's the current plan um and then basically it's going to be less than $3,000 to implement all this and um will be well worth it just in terms of you know meeting our strategic goals and you know having a collection because without a collection you know museums aren't you know it's it's hard to call yourself a museum without a collection and this is actually something that should have been done at the outset so glad we're jumping in I have a question though about this U diagram for the use of this space who came up with the drawing uh that would be uh the historic maintenance worker to uh Seth Jacobs okay I just right I just wondered if this is the best utilization of space so I'd love to get like an architect or someone who understands space space planning to see if there's if this is the highest and best use of where these uh shelves and and um cabinets go um so because I noticed that part of this is obscuring even some of the windows and I just was not quite sure why that would be obscuring the windows right yeah so we're I did forget to mention so we're basically going to um cover the windows in a UV protection film so Windows let in light uh in addition to you know rain wind all that fun stuff um but the light is an issue as well so we're actually going to be covering the windows um in one a UV protective film and then two um basically a material that can be placed on it's almost like a an indoor um um shade shade kind of thing okay but again it's a you know like say for example there's one to the lower right where it says n what is it 9 feet 11 Ines I'm not quite sure what I'm seeing here I think it is oh that's 90 in is it 90 in 90 90 in in again you know because you're talking about obscuring the window but that'll still send in some ambient light right oh no we would obstruct the windows yeah they're going to cover it completely you're talking about blackout lighting blackout in in a sense yes not just like ambient light correct okay yes so the only light what you're talking about like right behind you in a way yeah in a way but even more even more yes so you're basically um rendering these windows uh totally non-usable in any way not non usable when it's not nothing permanent just like that blind isn't permanent right there's it's just a big it's just a big blind or it's a big curtain basically yeah it's a blackout blind so yeah yeah so totally reversible uh that's the goal preservation not destruction and just we we kind of got a little bit lucky as well we had some funds um that were I don't want to say left over but we were being conservative with with the town um so we had it wasn't a lot it was you know couple like I think $30,000 that we could kind of play with and it has to be allocated by the end of end of this year fcal year yeah not fisal year calendar year so we're talking like a month and a half you know so we got kind of got lucky that we were talking about this we had these funds available so it won't come out of our our budget right per se um and kind of one of those things we either use the funds or we lose them so this is a done deal um the funds would be this is a the funds this is a recommendation and we've got two months to do something to allocate the funds to allocate okay yeah if we can get a contract in place no matter if we have to get an architect in or something um to to be able to use that $3,000 we have to have something signed by the end of end of the calendar year I think to your point Becky though the issue here is that you know this is a storage plan yet on the agenda it talks about collect and storage but it doesn't talk about board action so is this a recommendation from staff to cell cab that's the question that we're raising because um I mean I think personally for me it certainly makes sense I like the fact that you're not removing the bathtub uh it was always in our strategic plan to have rotating exhibits so it doesn't mean that if there's a perfect place for this collection in the future that we could maybe reinstall the bathroom exhibit or put something else new in so it gives a lot of options but for the safety of the collection and the accessibility of the collection going forward to me this seems like a a a good plan uh I would have liked the storage to happen upstairs you know at the at the Town Hall if you remember that was that was discussed in June when I went back and looked at my notes that's exactly right that was in June and that was kind of the way it was left and now this is the new plan so this is the old old plan and then we then Town Hall happened the purchase last I talked to Adam about it yes there would be a place in town hall right and I guess my cons my bullet point it's closing another exhibit yes it could be we're standing at a very narrow door or you've got people walking in and all around and people with hands and breathing and the windows are not sealed they would have to be sealed you can see light through there um and then the roof leaks we've had a lot of roof leaks so I don't see that this room is as safe as Town Hall might be the new one um that bathroom certainly I I really like the idea of other exhibits being used in that room which is a little bit of wasted space um but but the room at at town hall for for for the cataloging which is a really boring thing so frankly if I were going to go in there I mean if I'm there I'm monopolizing anybody at the desk if there are no visitors I'm monopolizing Adam if he walks through or Karina if she walks through CU I'm bored and nobody's there and and and I'm just seeing I'm just seeing dosen standing up they're going so hey Briana how's it going or visitors coming in and say what is that um most of the artifacts are little bits and pieces of pottery and shells so what I wonder is given the covering of the exhibit of the pipe are those things not if they're part of a burial are they not visible I think that has to be settled you know are they part of this burial ground does that not have to be settled first uh so that's a great question um I don't why several questions uh yeah yeah yeah uh I guess in regards to the pipe in question so the pipe kind of came in under the same effect of the rule change um so under the advisement of the Town attorneys there is certain steps we have to take to ensure that we have the consent of the Affiliated communities the seminal mikasuki to display this pipe so the first step is to submit a holding summary to the Department of interior the town has never done that uh in 25 years um that we have Native American collections which is a requirement under uh federal law uh Banna did that uh about a month ago oh good that she F filled out the holding summary and to our knowledge there's only one item in question that meets the the the new um kind of reinterpreted parameters of this rule change that took place in the beginning year under um it's kind of a vague term and it because it means so many different things to different tribes you know there's 574 federally recognized tribes so you know it depends which tribe you're talking to but it's a cultural patrimony so basically an object used for cultural or religious or ceremonial purposes not the bowl uh no so the bowl based on archaeological knowledge mostly utilitarian um You Might Recall Florida is known as the Tupperware State uh amongst Pottery Ceramics experts uh but the pipe that that's something that is a an item typically of cultural patrimony for tribes in the southeastern United States um So based on the recommendations of the lawyer yes I I did Cover the uh the pipe that's on display until we have everybody looks under the sheet so and that's unfortunate that you know exactly and that's part of the reason I mean where are we going to put it and the room actually at Town Hall would be smaller than what's up there but but the room up I mean the bathroom is being going to be open for visitors it's not there's going to be a lock there's going to be a door there's going to be visible there's going to be a window for visitors um Brianna is going to be on the display basically uh so visitors won't be able to go inside ban will be the only person with a key okay that ensures sa one of those behind the scenes kind of things where you you pay extra we wouldn't charge extra but I would hope not cuz you're going to there are people there are people that pay for behind the scenes tours this is just going to be open kind of like that where you can see people actually doing the work um as a I love history I always have and I love going and seeing that will there be a large photograph of the bathroom outside so people can see I mean it is very interesting as to why Jack Del built a house he never lived in and had a 225q foot bathroom well I always as I always ask people you think that was for what do you supp got any [Laughter] Theory I see another book is coming well well that's where we direct them to the museum store and up sell them on your book to learn more um no there there are details like that that we can definitely yeah definitely document the ex exhibit before it is dismantled and again the the bathroom's still there the the tile will still be there and that story just like we talk about um you know the case in Long family and there's no bedrooms you know we tell that story we have the living room and we have but you know that's it you know we talk about how it was a post office we don't have you know mailbags sitting around so there's a lot of stories that we currently don't tell I mean we don't have any cheeky huts on the mound we don't have any you know Rancho fishing nets strewn up so there's a lot of things we don't have we do have Rancho fishing nets not currently I mean there's the the clusa one but there's not one for like the Rancho period per se un likee the grounds aren't they the same uh no just slightly different eras so yeah so there's a lot of things there's a lot of possibilities so um but basically again this is the focus of uh the preservation of the collections um you know the as I said the collection is in pretty bad condition terrible and you are so right to be working on this and needed to be done so there in regards to town hall it's you know even without traffic it's still 2 miles away and that removes bana from the team and that limits her ability to collaborate with the Educators Franklin and Ashley on developing programs it removes the artifacts even more from visitors it's going to be really hard to you know the you know anywhere at town hall there's going to be you know it'd be like trying to lead a visitor back through here it's going to be through offices where other sensitive Town information Financial records people's private information might be on display um so that seriously hinders our ability to share the collection it hinders our ability to have a stream of Revenue through behind the scenes tours behind the scenes talks um by going into the exhibit Briana can bring out special things that she's working on and explain it so it add an extra level of things just like you know people can go self-guided at the mount house or they can take guided tour at the mount house we give that option and the gours add that stream of Revenue and you know vibrations and movements uh every step every movement um you do with an artifact puts it at risk so taking it from a box on off a Shelf at Town Hall placing on a table removing the artifact from that box at Town Hall placing it in a carrying container walking it downstairs or down the elevator through the town hall Lobby you know through the first floor where people will be coming and going walking to the parking lot placing it in a vehicle driving down a stero Boulevard in a perfect world a 10 15 minute drive but in season for 3 four months out of the year you know an hour it is so then getting to the Mountain House offloading it walking up the even it's slightly uneven Mound uh going into the museum going upstairs to show a visitor or rotating an exhibit or rotating an artifact for exhibit changes so by reducing those steps both physical walking steps and also procedural steps we're also better ensuring The Collection isn't further damaged than it already is are you confident that everything that is currently in storage for our collection will be appropriately housed in this one room yes wow yeah it was in a probably a smaller uh Storage uul storage before so this will give it a little more room to then you're going to have sufficient drawers for all of these to be safely stored then so because I was looking at your diagram and I didn't see yeah you have are you having like Museum collection uh trays for example for for the more sensitive objects yes but for things like the the shell mid material no they'll be more in a um in bins by themselves okay um but the specific artifacts like Pottery shirts or um deer bone pens things like that uh that would be kind of face too in terms of once B starts cataloging and you know REM removing the pottery shards and the shells from the piles of Rusty Nails and metals um cuz a lot of bags are labeled shells some bags are labeled metal uh some bags are labeled shells metal and pottery shards and it's just a bag of fun uh that you have to some are bags of bags of bags um so there's varying um challenges that moving fortunately though when you get everything cataloged and have your um collection your inventory of Acquisitions and get them professionally exception in the first place we have to have that policy um but when I'm looking at buying additional equipment that actually professionally stores these artifacts in bins of some kind oh yes that's uh that's and funding that that je was talking about will provide okay if we can make that purchase before the end of the year then we'll have that in place yeah exactly just need to know where it's going well um yeah that's going to eat up the 30,000 right there those things are pricey yes yes Gaylord gets their Gaylord archival is a large archival company okay um yes but that's the level of the storage that you're talking about yes so basically the $3,000 will cover the this custom door that Seth is building that will secure the collection behind a lock that only bana will have a key to um which ensures safety if anyone's ever worked in a large company with risk management steps um you know you have limit access for those if something goes missing sorry Brianna uh what we're missing uh we we'd go straight to her um because it is a huge responsibility to be in the position that Banna is in um will she actually have a work desk in this that where she can access her data Yes she'll have a working table so her full desk will be next to Franklin and Ashley where it currently is in the office um but she will there will be a workstation for her to have enough room to catalog sift sort inventory catalog uh build custom housing uh through you know specialized materials okay all the above um show have a a array of collections do collection handling trainings for staff members so where will her office be just a question so her so her main office will still be where it is now but that large Square in the middle the working table okay that would be where she could put a laptop a laptop and then inventory start sorting needs to have something on here I would agree she's lucky a chair yeah chair okay so moving along I my personal opinion is that I think this is a great plan I uh believe that it'll be a great Educational Opportunity um and I I know that it's not on the agenda that we have to um vote on this but I believe we should so um I'd like to entertain a motion that we um approve this storage plan are you making the motion no I'm not I'll make the motion all right so Pat I'll second it and then you'll second it uh that's Betty Simpson uh further discussion I I am Adam deserves great kudos for starting this out because there was so much about Museum collections I had no idea I'm the one who loaded the Stu the boxes into the back of the van and took them to the first stor there's a bunch of bags I don't know where all the paper stuff went but but you know it was it was not handled well there was no paperwork so great Kudos yes I don't see the educational value it's a value for Brianna to be on site we lose another room of the exhibit a little window showing what she's doing writing down looking at this knocking on the door going what are you doing in there I I mean I I don't see that as a wonderful education sort of thing I also don't think that once it happens the bathroom would ever be restored the bathroom would be on used for additional exhibits they've never done what they should have done with the kiosks we have a lot of written material and stuff that could have been put on that computer and that was said in the very beginning that oh yes they could do that it just never happened which it's absolutely not Adam's fault um anyway my vote would be for putting it at Town Hall bringing over you got problems exhibit you got problems with the mountainous roof with the lot with with everything there okay that that's it for me okay um other discussion so I have no background in this other than having been in the back rooms of museums when I did some projects at when I was at University of Michigan okay and the the Natural History Museum in Michigan was Ancient Ancient was beautiful architecture but not very effective as a museum they built a new Museum and they created a space so that you could see the inner workings of the what they were doing of course they're working on Big Stuff um and they had an interactive way of you could press a button and then the microphone would go active into that into that room so you could interact with them now I understand that your concern is about Brianna being interrupted by people we could train a dosen to stand up there and answer questions which she's very enthusiastic about involving dosent in these projects not just in the cataloging but also the education and the tour part I I think I think Betty's Becky's um concern about the roof though I think is valid I think you would need actually two windows in that door one about three feet high and one about five and a2t high can the whole door be and the it will the whole door will be the whole door is plastic it's going to be it's be like one rectangular oh okay yes how big I don't have the measurements in front of me is the door being built as we speak uh no it has to be uh funny enough has to be custom ordered because the dimensions of the door frame on the bathroom is uh let's just say they use some fractions it's a a custom okay uh parameters so we have to order a large enough surface and then uh staffer kind of building the door um one last question could you move that kiosk where they had the all the old pictures and everything yeah down into the large assembly room the in the orientation Gallery yeah yeah uh yeah I was thinking initially of like the um the I don't want to call it the the stairwell hallway where those windows are I was thinking there somewhere down there or even the living room maybe because you know there's photographs of the case family case living room oh yeah so could those kids be on rollers so that you could move them into the orientation room when there wasn't something going on and then when there was something going on move them out out yeah they could be Putters yeah we're pretty strong over there at Mount house we can them but they would have to work right now it is yeah they don't work not working and it's not real effective as correct and the town recently has a new program beok was using it Mount house uses it um it's it's mostly it's being used right now at Mount house as a um like an info kiosk that shows like upcoming Pro programs the membership you know things like that it it can easily be made as an educational component so upgrading I mean but above the desk in the office be put in the desk or to put in the in the kiosk so thech it can it can be on a phone technology okay we just have to buy the right screen and um update the basically that's it it's just a screen with a Wi-Fi connection we don't even need need a computer it's all updated through a backend like a website cuz currently we pay for the kiosk cuz currently the website of the mount housee has its own domain and then you can actually check it out right now kiosk house.org oh that's a second domain that we're currently paying for or rather the friends are generously paying for uh so that would save the friends $2,000 um in their contributions to mount house to other endeavors because right now we pay $2,000 a year for the domain. mount house.org that's a crazy amount of money money for domain name for the for the Kos 20 books a year wait for the kiosk has said have a can I go on my phone and look at what's in the kiosk kiosk Mount house.org I would thinking kind of like a big it's it's an app that you're buying and that's the domain that's do it's it's the it's the domain and then also the registration and a couple other things to house it on a server why have we never heard of this yeah I was going to say I didn't know no idea right I didn't not until not not until the the friends uh helped me in finding a new website developed to upgrade the Mountain House website did the website developer say Hey you know you're paying for two domains right because the thing in the kiosk is it a me and I said it is he's like I mean I'll do it for free cuz you know it's shouldn't be paying that much but I'll house it for this year so but $2 for a domain is crazy that's insane that's turns out that's what we were paying for all these years I mean they should be like last I I checked they were like 1995 yeah it's it's more than the domain it's other things as well but still that's that's I think it's mostly the server housing that shouldn't be that much money either I agree yeah that that's but this one this one really Che counting on you not knowing I know uh so that's an added benefit so we can upgrade the kiosk um as well since we're all doing this and ideally not not to rush anyone but with season coming up we were thinking a staff of closing the museum uh to the public for a twoe period to do this plan to implement this plan before traffic gets bad and then also to repair the ceiling in the living room and things so just everything all at once and we're all ready for visitors in the in January okay and what dates are you thinking about doing that December 8th uhhuh uh the week of December 8th and the week of December 16th so I think it's the 21st that's cool so uh closing the museum grounds the grounds will be open kayak tours will be on we'll give return passes for people who have booked a kayak tour and we'll explain it whenever they book it you know hey just so you know um so we'll have that element covered but in terms of the the building itself since we have to fix the ceiling and the gift shop and the ceiling might as well do one big clothes and Interruption instead of two in Museum Store uh so K.M house.org Yeah question is really good it is really cool if we've approved I didn't know it until that includes the $960 a year for the archival database uh we have that anyway right yeah we have that anyway that's we already have that line item for something else this is not a new line item this is just extending th this is basically what we're going to use to do the work proposing this collection management system and and and the funds to do this are are already yes yep it's coming out of um technically office supplies uh for the town for the mount house uh budget and the other the other stuff for the actual collection is coming from the arpa funds that we had left over I need to get spend but we I tomorrow morning uh I'll have Kara uh okay firing away on so we have a motion and we have a second and we've had discussion um I'd like to call the vote if I may all in favor of approving the mount House Collection storage plan for 20242 say I I any oppose none oh yes Becky Becky Warner opposes for all good reason just the location not the theory can ban put some of these pictures and some of these artifacts on that kiosk as opposed to pasting to inside of the plexiglass window I mean that would be great yeah eventually our goal is to expand Outreach not just at the mount house with like printed photos I mean I've been yelling at people for years to get more on the kiosk yes you know where's the blessing where's the letter from who where's the letter from it never happens so I'm going to hold you to it please I know you will yes you do my door always gets unlocked with [Music] you and to Adam's Point um we are going to try to do more things townwide so whether it's obviously Newton we're going to put some kiosks where or not kios but you know QR codes where it might have you know what the Newton Cottage look like or whatever we decide to put in there just an example and then you can SC a QR code and it'll tell you all the history that you need okay great um and then even at the park here Adam and I have talked about when we redo Bay Bay Oaks Park um is putting kind of townwide kiosks about history about the town and things on the Walking path so they'll get it not only at Mount house and Newton but also at the parks as well all Town that's great that's great A minor minor thing but when you do the documents of any kind whether it's a collection manager could you number the pages yes I will thank you yes I apologize very helpful going forward with virtually everything it just makes it easier so I will appreciate that okay um moving on member items uh we're going to start with Pat Uh yeah Adam uh Could you um talk about um basically the email you sent to Ellen telling me not to wear any moundhouse Garb shirt anything to give a talk to the southwest Florida archaeological society and why you didn't write that to me uh yes I can uh so Ellen and I had a dis a conversation about it and that kind of Ellen yeah uh yeah Ellen and I had a conversation about that before after you did it after after um after uh and I realized it was not very delicate of me um and I never intended to offend anyone and as Ellen said uh email is uh not a uh good way to handle things and it came over a little bit in terms of uh miscommunication over the roles and responsibilities between staff and volunteers and uh friends members and the friends of Mount house is a joined but still separate organization that came out of discussion with the the map peer reviewer in terms of governance so in terms of you know getting to know like who's on first um so making sure we're not you know what's the word I guess double booking or um us trying to reach out to like the Southwest fora Historical Society or imag where you're speaking and then o talking to the friends um and then also trying to clarify some Communications because sometimes I hear about things because people inform Ellen of problems at Mountain House and Ellen pours them to me um like with with um Media or community members they'll email Ellen to I guess report their displeasure with me and with the mount house and Ellen will forward it to me so I do have I still have a concern and we're Ellen and I were both from my understanding correct me if I'm wrong open to forge those better communication channels between staff and the friends of Mount house to make sure we don't have any of those future um crossfires but I I do apologize it came off it was incentive of me to uh send that email in that way and I don't want to do it again uh or cause any displeasure or do anything that would um try to diminish the work in your expertise but the or should I say and the and I'm looking forward to future communications and helping to navigate those governments governance questions that came up from the map peer reviewer meeting from the American Alliance of museums between the mount house as a town entity and the friends as a fundraising entity um and helping sure that we work together and have a clear set of roles and responsibilities so there's no future miscommunications or offenses so does that mean I can't wear my mous shirt if I were going to talk to some people uh no oh okay but that's what you said that I couldn't do uh yes then we had a conversation and Ellen convinced me otherwise didn't you never you never approached me to start with you never came back to me and said we've talked about it and you can do this what kind of communication is that for a member of ccab a member of the friends well that I think that's also an issue so I will say that Adam and I are going to have conversations on a monthly basis and I will also say Adam was pushed into not he was basically thrown into the deep end of the pool never having had any experience with any of this and one of the things that came out of the conversation that Adam and I have had is that Adam needs to find a mentor somebody in the museum community and he and I even talked about how we might go about finding that person because I think there's there's a lot of navigation of relationships when you're in the position you're in and there are a lot of um compromises that have to be made in certain things I mean whoever spent her career in this industry I mean it is an industry it is and and you need to understand how to balance all those things and and that's it's on a knife's edge well and actually um leadership Lee is a wonderful I went through leadership CER I've also been to leadership Tampa to understand the nuances of relationships with multi Lev uh areas of responsibility and how to navigate that and I think um understanding how communities work and don't work um I found I found those experiences extraordinarily valuable and to that end we were getting uh Allison if you remember uh encouraging the town to pay for Allison to go through leadership Lee if you remember exactly and I think that was about the time that she left I don't know that she ever went through it but but she's in the middle of it now yeah is she well I mean she's working for TDC and well that's yeah yeah it is a wonderful understanding yeah so that is that is certainly a recommendation if we never used those funds for Allison I'd like to say that maybe either Jeff or Adam would be great candidates for next year's leadership we yeah and that's also why I applied um after the situation of to those two programs the jual island Management Institute is a it's a leader leadership uh course for Museum managers directors uh and then also the the heart Heritage emergency at risk training not only does it does not only do they do collection stewardship and emergency preparedness but they also do leadership skills and training and and and the kind of things you will learn in that situation because in an emergency situation je is also thrown into the deep end When people's tempers get short and and think I mean things go right when things go wrong on a regular basis all know that like what like like what and that doesn't even take into account father nature right we all try to do our best but always always need some help yeah all right so uh anything more to add to that P all right good thank you um very quickly I would like to ask beg you to find that room in town hall hold on to it Mark further permanent collection storage for stuff we do not want on display so that in the future we there will be boxes and boxes of protectively collected bags of bits of pieces that that we're never going to look at or could be pulled out and and so that when that when that cataloging is done that that the mount house could have that sort of uh storage available on a more permanent basis in the future so so that more of the bathroom could be used for more exhibits yes yeah I can certainly inquire with the town manager if that's an option or if he it could be it might be some number of years in the future before it's needed but you did it could also be used for well maybe not but friends of the mound house um I was just given a bunch of a bin of stuff from seal which I don't know if I should show it to Briana or rexan who's doing the historian stuff or whatever whatever anyway just thinking about grabbing that space put a sign on the door and a lock and and then keeping that look at the stuff you have to keep in your office that you could put there some maybe not would not be okay there but you know there's a lot of stuff up in the attic of the garage thing that could be stored there for now holding the space hold that space say if if anybody has the town hall would be the second I think probably Mouse has the most space for storage of any facility that we have right now even the new town hall besides the new town hall but the new town hall is going to be is going to be pretty full I mean you're we're here really condensed here grab a room fast yeah I I'll inquire okay thank right thank you Becky uh yes so and I realized I am remiss because I didn't bring I didn't bring my my visual aids um someone rexan is going through all of the me all the the papers and materials that the friends have collected over their history and among them she found two pieces that had to do with with the Newton family ra rather than the friends of the mound house and so she didn't think that they belonged with the friends of the mound house I wanted to bring it to cellc and asked if you would be agree that maybe it would be a good idea to give it to Ellie bunting so that it could go to the his hystero Island Historic Society I didn't want to make that determination without consultant so Ellen is it something that we potentially could use as a kiosk or not a sorry I keep saying a display it's newspaper it's it's a binder with with newspaper I just if it's something for display we could do it at Newton but if not I can always talk I'll show it to you I'll bring it to you well let's hold on to it for now I'm not opposed to that I'm just saying if it's something we can use in the park to kind of you actually you probably could because it's all about the Newton family really yeah I don't want to get rid of it if we have a park named after them and we can use it and there is Newton still going to be called Newton no currently currently but anyway I will maintain it and actually maybe maybe I'll bring it to you Jeff sometimes here hold on to it all right I'll hold on I mean you can if you want to bring it in we can we can keep it here certain I mean it's not taking up that much space I mean I live in a little apartment no I mean but I think that would be we can certainly do that if if that's the wish of The Advisory board but just a that was just a caveat to okay so hold on to it okay I'll hold on to it for now for now okay thank you that's it well can I say something that the friends of Mound house yes um we're we're very busy with our fundraising in December and in January uh we're taking advantage of the event that the Women's Club is sponsoring the Christmas tree festival and Sher is constructing a tree that's going to have a valueable $1,000 on it and they pre-sell raffle tickets and well you I'll let you talk about the theme of the tree I'll just say that there's a tree and there are two wreaths and then in January we're going to do the patent Pub and we're looking for donations for that so that our raffle so our basket brings in a high high dollar amount um some of the some of the baskets that were raffled last year one of them brought in almost $3,000 two of them brought in almost 2,000 so we're aiming high this year and we have a good plan for that Ellen I'm sorry just a friend's question um do they are they hosting a a site for parking for donations does the friends of Mount house do that we for the sand sculpture no we we we didn't okay um I was just a question because then we could have put that plug in a little bit par there instead yeah well as you know all the other not for profit so all of us I mean I'm wearing different hats when day wearing this one the yeah yeah yeah I was just thinking about that if they do that next year maybe we can try maybe yeah yeah yeah yeah and that actually that'll be a recruiting tool for us people want to learn how to park cars I'm sure all the people that the cars are would be great to hear that we had a little lesson this morning I parked cars for the Women's Club and it was okay how are we going to do this oh my gosh so oh the tree the tree yeah well we put um $1,000 value on it last year we did $1,000 on it sure and we're just kind of trying to decide what we could do this year cuz you it's unfortunate that they don't just auction the trees for beauty and looks they want something in return you know like um um like lot liquor lotto tickets this kind of stuff last year I did the 12 days certificates and stuff so we will be doing certificates like that in a way with uh jewelry but what we're calling it is the treasure tree and it's going to be mainly gold and I ordered some little treasure chests they're actual little treasure chests and we are going to put donations in there and uh it'll be I'm sure probably well over ,000 nice yeah so we hope hope it turns out well and I will just add that that um we're approaching local businesses and because everybody was hit so hard we're not asking for donations per se from them um I I think everyone knows Alex King is very generous to the not for-profits on this island giving us seed money to raise more money so our approach is we're going to a business and I did this with Fresh Catch and they've agreed that we will buy a gift card and then they will match it and they will give us a gift card perect so that's the approach I'm using with with all the businesses that I'm approaching yeah and some won't even take the money some say Hey you know and just another because it's culture parks and wreck the uh Tree Festival will be down at Bay Oaks this year yes yes yes which is great okay so um me only thing I have is um maybe better communication and um like the lecture I mean we've all just been so disjointed with all the Hurricanes and I mean I've been especially busy with people staying at my house and Company but I don't always have a chance I always check my email and like yesterday all of a sudden there's the lecture and I may have known about it before but it's like on the same day half the time I can't make it so I would like to have just maybe more notice of things and also I really don't know anymore if I'm a dosent what I'm to do um I'm I'm confused and I think a lot of others are also what are roles are with you know the underground being closed do we and so so yeah and I mean why are we there why are we there um and we haven't had any input anything I mean we've really and we have new rules and regulations for the friends on things we can't do and I'm just really feeling shut down shut down uh I guess to address that um in regards to the the lecture series it was in the October newsletter the November newsletter and I sent out three separate email blast two weeks before one week before and the day of um we'll check your I'll check your email um I don't know why you get one but not the other four emails I sent um and so we'll look into that I especially like the day of because I don't always know what that's is but and and they're wonderful and I couldn't go last night because mhm I wasn't quite out of quarantine and um you brought up this at the Friends Meeting that you guys were all at um with me on Monday your concerns about being a dosent and um I told you you're always welcome to dosent at the Museum uh our real effort is like what Jeff said townwide efforts doing Outreach especially with marketing the upcoming opportunities that Brianna's going to have with the collection storage but especially the Outreach having someone there to help like SRA for example with the sand sculpting um reaching out to volunteers um I know dosting was a main way that people engaged um we just don't have the visitors like we had beforehand and so when there's no one there the dosant tend to leave early uh typically around lunch um when you're needed most because there's no visitors um so that's why we've been trying to downplay the dos sing at the house but promote New Opportunities both for the museum but also for engagement for the the volunteers um I'm also glad you brought up the roles and responsibilities because I think this might be something to address um whenever the the map report comes out cu I'm also in an awkward position CU you're all volunteers that I manage but you're also cell cut members that govern me so be very careful and you're also friends members who provide money to the museum yes so I don't know which hat you're wearing sometimes when speaking to you which which offers up some communication challenges well I try to be very clear and tell you Lord knows I've got a to that point just really quick is Adam and I have had discussions about you know and I don't want to get into the sunshine but just be careful what you know he can tell to certain groups um not that anything private or anything but just when you're talking about a cell cab issue talking about a friends thing it gets really muddy so that might be part of my my problem too well and I think like in Pat's case I mean is he doing this because he's a member of cell cab which I think all of us should be uh you know in terms of our engaging with the community in whatever way uh to let let them know about the mount house and of course since Pat's authored the book he's got special caveat to sell his book you know engage with the audience about the book but also talk about what's happening at at the encourage people to come back to the mountainous who've never been there you know right so that's separate apart from either you know being on the board of the friends or even VI a member of friends it's a totally separate operation yeah some point good all right Betty do you have anything to add really I just like the idea of the better communication and uh that's the bottom line and uh it's only two words but uh it says a lot so all right and Carrie how about you Adam I think you did a good job today I know everybody I'm I'm new to the board of course and everybody's very personal and have their personal feeling so nice job for what had to bring up today I thought that was very nice and you did the best you could um I think honesty is always the best policy and um I feel like that communication's great um and always keep it moving forward no matter what no matter how you know uncomfortable it can be sometimes it's still the best way and being honest is always the best way so good job [Laughter] today well and I for one I I for one um do get all of the newsletter information the um by the way this is the community conversation and it's my bad if I'm not putting it in my phone so I take I I'm the one to blame here I'm just saying I'm taking maybe just for I guess Clarity we can bring the upcoming events here and just pass them out to if that helps you I I do remember in years past we always had the uh director report and in that it listed all of the events for that that following month so that we could look and say well in advance okay that's that date put it on my calendar put it on my calendar it was we had a calendar that was in advance so there's that that's probably what we relied on exactly yes when you're done I just want to add two things okay all right um public comment would you like to um yes come up and say a few words Susan I have to tell you I am extremely this is Susan Grace again I'm ex extremely proud of Port Meers Beach you know just picking up and going forward and and not closing down yes and I think that's what we need to think about the mound house too we're not going to close down we're going to pick up and we're going to make the best of of of what we can thank you thank you sir thank you thank you all right just a procedural thing um so we want to set the calendar for next year since we had just had all the reappointments um so it'll be the fourth Thursday of the month just like we've been doing at 2 pm does that work yes that's great tends to go a little long can it can it go is there any chance it could go earlier than 2 p.m. does that work I would it work for everyone a and then B i' have to check the calendar I don't think anything is before this right can we do one if we could do one I said because and I think there's somebody else on this board that has the same issue we have season tickets at the barber man yeah yeah and and so we need to be off the island by 3:00 at the absolute latest or we yeah I mean just for reference we do borab at noon so okay how about noon 12:30 I can't do noon because of flights I won't get here in time can you do 1:00 I could do one I might be a few minutes late sometimes but I'll be here let's and then there are a few dates um that fall on holidays so and we'll we'll have this all printed out we're going to put a master calendar with advisory boards so the Thursday dece November 27th 2025 is Thanksgiving we're going to move it the week before to the November 20th you'll get this in writing too so you don't have to write down but uh and then that's for25 yeah for 2025 and then Christmas Day on 2025 is Thursday also when we be meeting we'll just move that to the 18th if that works for everyone but okay everything else I mean we can we can it'll be on a master calendar uh if we have to move something obviously we can we can work on that but we want to get it kind of set in stone if that works so are we meeting in December then also are we are we are we meeting well yes are that's up to that's up to you Miss because that's that's when we're flying to Brazil I'm going to miss too I think we should all we all should take and because we want have until January anyway we do that okay that's what I wanted to bring it up I nothing in December then cancel December's meeting and that's one thing that's also not on this agenda in studying the next agenda and the date so we need to make sure that that isn't added next month for for January let's say So speaking of agenda items we did want to add the um update the uh 1998 ordinance and the other uh one is collection management policy draft that's the uh document and we need to uh vote on that and we're also going to continue the conversation about the underground exhibit and are there any other items uh that you can see that we need to add to the agenda that you feel in addition to what we've already mentioned I'd like progress reports on where you're coming with the research sure Visa the underground oh right well I think that would be part of the staff report but defitely just Newton New Park Newton Park we need to because and I'm just thinking of the December one if if they do Jason Jason do you know when they're presenting for the rtp2 dec can you let us know a date on that yeah I mean we'll get it'll be it'll be a council meeting yeah that's what I mean that way it'll be at a council meeting so we going to look at okay I'm just thinking if if they do it and we want to talk about it I don't yeah we'll wait till January okay just thinking I'd like to get going on that so we can get it planned well we could also be at the council meeting when that's going to be presented and there's public comment right yeah that's true and we did already have the open two open sessions on on Newton park right before so we had a lot of public input or some at least the ones that the ones that came so did