##VIDEO ID:EEFIT2SsBZA## a I PL Ali to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all oh this morning give us patience give us Grace give us strength to make the best decisions possible for the future of our town amen amen amen this morning we have two cpds those are commercial plan developments and one special exception and a review um of our LPA guidelines may I have an approval for the final agenda unless anybody wants to um change something thank you Jim second okay there's a motion by Dunlap second by bone uh any objections all in favor say I I thank you next is an approval of the minutes for the meeting of October 22nd 2024 Madam chair yes can you bring Don suth into the meeting please I don't know controversy right from the start could we have a motion please to accept Mr suth from uh from a distance so thank you is there any objection to that okay Don can you hear us yeah there he is hi there you are can you hear us Don hello Don it's not his normal look no his normal look okay Don when you can hear us say something all right okay well he's there so in the meantime we also have an excused absence for um for Doug uh if I could have a motion to approve the minutes of October 22nd and October 29th if there are no um no changes or if there are changes tell me about them some move thank you Jim second thank you Jim uh any discussion on the motion Madam chair yes um I believe your minutes of October the 22nd has an item regarding voting for the chair and the vice chair yes I'm sorry Nancy and I I meant to make a note of that that's okay so could you go ahead and explain that let's hold that can you withdraw your motion for a moment thank you go ahead Nancy okay so um as reflected in the minutes we think we got it right but we're not sure as far as the select ction process for the chair and for the vice chair but a couple of concerns were raised um by some members of the public because at the time of voting um the video um wasn't working and for whatever reason no disrespect to anybody um that was trying to operate it but you know how technology goes so the public really wasn't aware of how the voting um occurred and for that reason we wanted to um go ahead and put that item on your agenda so you allow the vote to be taken for the selection of chair and for the vice chair um position and that way you're very transparent as far as your voting process and then we could I mean we you could approve the October 22nd uh minutes if you choose but that shows what we thought the the vote was which may or may not be accurate um the other concern that was raised was um Jane you were selected to it appears that you were selected to be Vice chair however you were not present at that meeting and so we were trying to move very quickly through the uh agenda and there was an assumption that you were okay with that but you may not be so um again that's an additional reason why we want to make sure that um that we do this again and we do it correctly and then once your procedural rules come into play um you can clarify that you know how the process will work and if you've been watching the Town Council meetings you know that we are working on their voting process again uh as well and the reason for it is transparency to the public we want the public to know every that transpires up here do you know if Don's picking up on any of those that's what I'm waiting to see too concerned he's not getting to hear the precursors don don sui Don um that Nicole Nicole do you know if Don is with us or not Don can you hear us it's clear he cannot to call yes please let's just wait one minute okay so but Nancy let me just ask you so we're going to to act as if that vote did not take place and we're going to have a doover yes okay and then if we need to correct the minutes to be consistent with your doover then we'll do that that's why I wanted to pause just for a moment got it um so there should be a motion to nominate there should be a second um there should be discussion um if there are any others who are interested in the position I I don't know that that opportunity was really provided okay um and then a vote let's let's wait until we have Dawn online I'm going to call up real quick too sorry folks hopefully he answers there he is this Amy I'm in the meeting and I'm going to put you on speaker till we can get you over Zoom okay I have them by speaker now Don you can hear us I can hear you okay very good so there was a glitch with the um voting I'm sorry with the voting uh at the at the meeting of the 22nd for chair and vice chair and so we're having a redo okay okay and and that's to make sure I'm sorry madam chair that's to um to make sure that the minutes are accurate uh the minutes of October the 22nd so we took a pause on the approval of those okay okay thank you all right so we need a nomination correct for chair okay I nominate Anita as chair do you accept I do accept are there any other nominations okay there a second second do you have to you don't have to second nominations um but okay there's a second uh is there any discussion on the motion all those in favor say I I okay thank you very much we'll put that rules okay I nominate Jane as a vice chair okay are there any other nominations well does she accept oh Jane do you accept I'll accept the nomination are there any other nominations no other nominations there a second okay or is there a second for um for Jane I'll second okay so all those in favor I I anyone opposed okay so now it's very clear so all we would do is just amend the minutes um to make maybe with an asct that um it was clarified at this meeting that Jane did accept the nomination and um the selection remains okay very good um so now we can approve the minutes of the 2 second I make a motion to accept the minutes as amended second any objection to that motion all in favor say I I okay any motion to accept the minutes for the meeting of the 29th I'll make a motion to approve the meeting of the 29th is there a second second any any objection hearing no objection the minutes are complete and passed okay so we'll move on to public comment the next item on the agenda is public comment for any item that is not on the agenda so this is you want to comment on whatever but not on a case is there anyone who has any comment to make at the beginning seeing none we'll move on to our first public Hearing in our first hearing Nancy do you want to do your script is a special exception for the Kua each Club thank you madam chair so the special exception um is quasi judicial Florida law has determined that it is quasi judicial in nature um property rights are at stake and this requires that our public hearing comply with procedural requirements that have been established in Florida law and in our Land Development code for quasi judicial proceedings so these quasi judicial proceedings they are less formal than proceedings before a circuit court but they will be a little bit more formal than the remainder of our meeting and the basic standards of due process that require certain noticing application of the correct standards and decisions that are made on competent substantial evidence that is presented to you in the form of written documents or oral testimony so once the um evidence is presented you will evaluate the testimony and the information and then you'll draw a conclusion regarding whether the criteria in the Land Development code or in state law as may be applicable has been satisfied so pure speculation or mere opinion that is not based on competent facts cannot legally be considered by you in evaluating an agenda item testimony by professionals who are qualified as experts in a particular area has been considered competent evidence by Florida courts as well as testimony by neighbors and residents who have fact-based information such as minutes surveys engineering reports or testimony that is based on personal information so members of the public and those in the audience um if you do intend to speak please keep these comments in mind and when you come forward state your name clearly for the record whether or not you have been sworn in um members of the LPA in the event that you choose to uh make a recommendation of denial I ask that you spec you state on the record the basic for the denial so that um the property owner has a clear understanding of of your concerns and for purposes of efficiency um I know that this has only been read in the context of the special exception um we do have two rezonings also that are also quasi judicial um so my comments would apply to those as well great um and uh so for this reason um I'm going to go ahead and ask the clerk have the three items that are on the agenda today been properly adverti or noticed they have been noticed okay very good and also um uh disclosure of any conflict so I would ask members of the LPA if any of you have a conflict with any of the three items that are before you today this would be the appropriate time to disclose that so we can ascertain if we do have a Forum present Don do you have any any uh conflicts Jim any conflict Noone Jane no conflict Jim none John none I have none I got a text from Don saying the connection is terrible but if they fix the zoom soon it'll be okay very garbled voices okay and I have I have no conflicts I can hear Jane great I can notot hear I can not hear Nancy very well at all okay well thank you very much uh thank you Don okay so closer can we can you move that closer to Anita okay Don you're here by me now good luck good luck with that yeah you're welcome you're welcome thanks for being so excited about it so right so Madam chair this would be an appropriate time to go ahead and swear in any witnesses that are intending to uh to testify today on all three cases let's let's have an all swear anyone who is going to testify today whether in in public comment or testify as part of a presentation if you're going to speak about any of the three cases that are on our agenda if you will please stand to be sworn in if you don't stand now you'll have to be sworn in all by yourself later so just in case I saw you hesitating you know it's always best just to go ahead and do it all right raise your raise your right hands please do you solemnly swear and affirm that the testimony that you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth okay everybody's been thank you all very much thank you very much okay Nancy okay so we can begin the public hearings on each item um Madam chair I would ask however um after the EXP parte disclosure that we identify any experts that will be providing testimony certainly will okay thank you you're welcome Don do you have any X parte for the Kua Beach Club no I didn't know do you want to read the titles I I will let me just first since I got the ex parte Jim do you have any exte Jane none Jim none John none and I have none and I'll read the title for the cola Beach Club special exception this is a resolution of the Town Council of the town of Fort Meers Beach Florida approving approving with conditions or denying special exception s202 4194 to allow the restoration of a pool pool deck two cheeky Huts shuffle board area and fence in the EC zoning District as authorized by section 6-36 of the town of Fort Meers Beach Land Development code for property located at 4950 and 4952 Estero Boulevard providing for scrier errors severability and an effective date um who is going to be are there any experts who are going to Jim you've already been accepted as an expert by the town of Fort Meers Beach is there anyone else who's going to be Albert you also have been accepted as an expert by the town of Fort buers Beach is there anyone else no okay then um we'll have our staff presentation thank you good morning we on good morning Jud good morning uh Judith Frankle principal planner town of Fort Meers Beach um this is a special exception as you said for restoration of a swimming pool pool shuffle board area two chicky Huts a pa pool deck and fences along the existing seaw wall portions which are all um either wholly or partially in the environmental environmentally critical um zoning District um they're asking to be restored to pre um hurricane Ian conditions um the applicant is here um and as we've discussed with the town attorney previously we're going to let the applicant come up and say what they would like to do um um what they would like to present on the topic and then I'll return to go over um the criteria in the code for making a determination and what conditions the U staff recommends thank you very much Judith any questions for Judith before we have the applicant thank you Mr Inc good morning good morning did you find a place to park yeah I get here early okay um this morning I found out that flash drives are not permitted to load up PowerPoints Jim will you say your name for the record please oh I'm sorry James Inc for the record Inc engineering uh I've been previously sworn in as an expert in planning and civil engineering and wish to do so now thank you very much Jim um as I said uh flash drive I don't know it doesn't look like it was loaded up but being old school I brought copies oh there it is if you would pass that out I always bring copies in Case Technology misses thank you very much what we're here this morning as to talk about as a special exception at kalula beach club as you know this is Mid Island 4950 EST stero Boulevard and it is pre Town construction and it had a pool that encroached across the uh environmental critical future land use and Zoning District of of what's there um our team members the owner developers Kula Beach Club condominium time share uh planning and Engineering is done by Inc engineering myself architecture Studio ad Albert Ambrose who's here for questions if we need them and construction is envir struct that is underway with some permitted activities what this request would do is the restoration of Po deck facilities to preh hurricane in conditions with minimum code changes which includes some pool Dimensions uh adjustments it's required since the pool was uh quite quite old and relocation of the pool equipment in uh a more location that is is back a little farther in with the Consolidated with the hot tub and such which I will show you in a moment what this does is it allows the facility put their recreational facilities back to what they were before hurricane the area plan as I said it was at 4950 Estero it's about 3/4 of an acre mixed juice residential for 2/3 13d is in recreational future land use the zoning District again is multif family um environmental critical for a small portion of the seword area the current use is time share we do have a development order that's in process pending the outcome of the special exception we have a repair building permit that has been issued there is a pending pool permit pending special exception and there is a Coastal Construction line permit from D that is pending this hearing which then allow the town to issue the setback verification letter which then allows the issuance of the Coastal Construction Line work for for work that is there so everything is in process and we're at the the the critical part right now future land use as you see mixed residential um up and down the beach consistent with the multif family use that is there the master site plan um there's some restoration that's going on uh there's the building and you can see the gray area there is an existing seaw wall that existing seaw wall is there the existing seaw wall is still functional and it's going to stay so there is the pool there is two chicky Huts that were there that we're going to hopefully put back again um you can see the line of the EC line runs in the left third of the pool so 2/3 of the pool is in environmental critical and oneir is not same for the chiy Huts 2/3 of the chiy Hut are in environmental critical and one3 is not here's a little more closeup View and it shows a pre picture that shows the pool and shows The Cheeky Hut of pre condition of what is there the proposed uh what we've done on the north northwest uh cheeky Hut is L-shaped right now in in the precondition picture that you see we're proposing since we are on the next slide it shows the pool equipment used to sit right there we're moving the pool equipment back on the side of the building with the hot tub pool equipment Consolidated new new equipment doesn't take up as much space so we can consolidate it and we're looking for efficiency to just build a more rectangular similar cheeky Hut in that spot uh free in condition this just shows the the barbecue area which is outside the EC District but it is just showing that we're not doing anything different we're putting back everything thing exactly the same as as what it was with just these minor dimensional changes of the pool and The Cheeky Hut uh conditions I know Judith says she's going to get up and run through the conditions but we have read them uh we're okay with them um we'll let we'll let her go through them so I'll just skip over that for for this point so to just summarize the request is a special exception for the restoration of the swimming pool shuffle board two chiy Huts the pool paer deck behind the existing seaw wall that's already there uh installing the fence it used to be on top of the seaw wall back exactly the same as what it was which are in the EC zoning district and I mean it's very straight forward uh it's very simple look I don't think it's real complicated ated we're just doing what the Land Development code allows us to do and what we have to do to put it back the way it was before hurricanum thank you very much Jim questions okay Don do you have any questions for Jim I did not thank you how about you Jim I'm here thank you Jane I'm okay Jim no question John um I just like a clarification on why some of the dimensions have changed a little bit I know you put it out there uh the swim pool Dimensions changed a little bit bit due to current code the pool was built 30 years ago 40 years ago so it changed a little bit and then the chiy Hut uh as you can see from the picture that's still up there was L-shaped to go around the pool equipment we moved the pool equipment back to the north side of the building next to and included with the pool equipment that was already there for the hot tub so it just allowed us to build a more efficient rectangular structure which hopefully is less expensive than building an L-shaped structure but it's still similar size similar square footage great thank you so much Jim what's the timeline for kooo I've had lots of people ask me that uh we're late well okay late I'm talking about the future when do you see uh families back at the kuoa beachub I would say we we've got to still get through the state with the C Construction and then they still got to build it so we're still quite a few months away five six months but months away not years away months away not years away the uh the management is is very anxious to get people back in there it's just a matter of getting through the process okay thank you all right no further questions thank you very much Jim Jim did you have anybody else that wanted to say anything or is that good thank you very much Judith so in considering an application for special exception we look to Land Development code section 34-8 B which sets forth the required findings and conclusions um for approval so the first is whether there exists a change or changing conditions which make um approval of the request appropriate in this case the recreation elements were damaged and destroyed during Hurricane Ian um and Construction in the environmentally critical zone is likely to be damaged by storm surge in in the future um well without this repair it would continue to be um damaged um the second Point whether the request is consistent with the goals objectives policies and intent of the comprehensive plan um staff review that it is in compliance in um consistent with the comprehensive plan specifically policy 5 D1 um development other than minor structure shall not be allowed seword of the uh 1978 cccl line um it may be permitted however provided it complies with the comprehensive plan and state and local permitting so this will go through the state U permitting process as well um the proposed work scope for the special ex exception is to restore the recreation elements to the pre hurricane conditions um with just slight modifications the um the chicky we estimated about 50 square ft additional to what was there and the pool is something like 114 Square ft additional um just to make it a more usable design so very slight modifications there um point three whether the request meets or exceeds all performance and locational standards um it will of course have to meet all current building codes and state and federal uh requirements as well um whether the request will protect conserve or preserve environmental CR critical areas or natural resources um the request will maintain what was there prior so uh no change to impact to the environmentally critical Zone um whether the request will be compatible with existing or planned uses and not cause damage Hazard nuisance or other detriment to persons or property uh we do not anticipate negative impact or injury to the surrounding properties as this is what was there previously substantially the same um and point six whether a requested use will be in compliance with the applicable General zoning provisions and supplemental regulations um set forth in chapter 34 of the land vment code um the environmentally critical zoning District allows um by right only passive movable structures no new major structures of any kind um the development of minor structures are allowed through this special exception process um Land Development code section 26- 77d states that existing seaw walls and retaining walls along the Gulf of Mexico may be maintained but not rebuilt so as you heard the seaw wall is there um it's in um usable condition and is going to be Contin to be maintained um so in consideration of that staff does recommend approval with conditions um the conditions which you saw up on the screen briefly I'll just run through them quickly for the record um include um the condition that the new special exception must be applied for each time the structures are reconstructed so this is a a one-time reconstruction approval um approval of the special exception does not give the applicant an undeniable right to permit approval they will still have to go through the regular permitting process um which is typical for any development um the applicant must apply for and receive all state and local permits as you heard they've already begun that um process to do so um any violation of the conditions of approval render the special exception null and void um the applicant must obtain an approved lighting plan uh which we don't have now but when they they move forward a lighting plan um and a landscaping plan uh will be required thank you very much Judith any questions for Judith nothing okay any questions or comments from the board if not may I have a motion to um public comment oh public comment yes I wasn't going to forget you uh is there any public comment on the uh kala special exception seeing none we'll close I'll make a motion and Jane go ahead I'm I move to approve the special exception for the restoration of the swimming pool shuffle board area the two cheeky Huts P pool deck and the fence along the existing seaw wall portion of the EZ zoning District to include the five conditions um in the packet second second okay uh thank you very much any discussion on the motion um your vote Jane I your vote Jim yes Don hi Jim hi John hi Anita I motion carries unanimously thank you very much folks that was quick like it okay the next one on our list probably won't be as fast but um is uh DCI 20239 this is the Pink Shell Resort CPD um Jim any exp parte on this n how about you Jane n other than the letters through the email letters other than yeah I say other than the letter through email okay how about you Jen yeah just uh subject to the numerous emails we've received and John uh yeah I actually did meet uh with the developers representative all right I I don't have any either although I have long experience and and um knowledge of the property and the emails Madam chair um there has been reference made to the various emails those of you that have received them were those emails forwarded to the town clerk for okay and so um I think am was Amy was listed on all those okay and Amy you provided copies to the uh property owner developer yes I have okay so we'll start DCI 20239 this is a pink shell Resort CPD an ordinance of the town of Fort Meers Beach Florida approving approving with conditions or denying the commercial plan development CPD for Zoning for 6.02 Acres of the property located at 275 to 332 Estero 200 Estero 192 Estero common element only 142 Estero 171 through 1623 w103 623 W1 037.0 CE and 2446 623 w1410 CE in Fort Meers Beach to allow an expansion uh to allow expansion of an existing Beach Resort to include a new 40 unit Resort Hotel Four additional Hotel units in the White Sands building and a duplex providing for other clarifications as necessary providing for conflicts of law scrier errors severability and providing for an effective date Madam chair there are a few housekeeping items we should address before we delve into the substance of of the item um and also we are in going forward into the future when we have a long um title like that we are going to put some parentheses also known as pink shell because I think oh lovely that that would help people know what we're talking about um and that is the purpose of of the ti so the first question I have um if I could ask the um applicant attorney did you receive a copy of all the materials that are in the agenda as well as the emails that were previously referenced I did thank you okay and um Madam chair I think we also have received correspondence from um an attorney that is alleging yes yes um so if um Amy if I could have you come to the podium and also Mr detet so what we need to do is establish whether or not um Mr DT's clients do you want to introduce yourself to LPA good morning Richard DT um government law group on behalf of Estero Island beach villas and I believe you've received a copy of the letter that Mr DT sign U mailed to you earlier today so um Amy has also provided a letter opposing um granting them interview intervener status so I want to briefly just let you know what this all means um so those this is our first intervenor generally I mean I know Mr dwit has a large practice um representing interveners but but it is not atypical to have interveners come um and participate in quasi judicial proceedings so they are human beings even though they're called interveners um when we have testimony um and documents that are provided to you um it is the applicant the developer whose private property rights are mostly at stake and the due process Protections in our constitutions is are there to protect those private property rights however other individuals who may not have ownership of the property may also have rights that may be adversely affected or positively affected by decisions that you make and then there is the members of the public which is the community at large whose also interests in the community um may be affected by the decision that you've made so case law basically um gives different rights and and opportunities to um present information to you based on which category that person falls in clearly the property owner developer they have the greatest due process rights available able to them affected Parts parties also known as interveners often times are the neighboring or adjacent Property Owners those in close proximity um will have additional rights or opportunities to participate and then the members of the public who also have rights to participate um but perhaps to a lesser extent um I think you have your three minute rule that that's involved and as you know um a property owner developer will have much more time to do their their presentation um so with that said I um the case law basically in my opinion says that the amount of participation that an intervenor or affected party has in a quasi judicial proceeding is discretionary on your part um again this is quasi judicial it is not a Judicial proceeding my um recommendation is that we go ahead and allow the participation to the extent that you feel comfortable where you can maintain decorum in um the proceeding and the reason for that is basically that it is in the record and should this matter get brought to a reviewing Court the court can always decide to um ignore or disavow um that part of the record however if we don't let them participate then it's basically a doover so I like to defer and and provide that opportunity however um the due process that you afford to them really is not to the same extent that that is afforded to a property owner developer because the property owner developer has more interest at stake in this proceeding um so I am going to ask a few more questions but at this point I'd like to just defer to the two attorneys and let them make their arguments to you and then I'll kind of summarize a little bit and then you can decide to what extent you'll allow that participation Amy I or Nancy I have a question um you said that an email that we got today or was it yesterday I believe it was last week that included I just was looking I I didn't have one for today and I just wanted to confirm okay all right thank you Nancy I have a followup also um I realized it's quasi judicial is there a degree of affected somebody 15 miles away verus somebody across the street there a whole different category of direct effect is that a baseline criteria what is a baseline criteria let me tell you what the Baseline criteria is so I wrote it down so the first is you know what is the extent of the interest that they have yeah and your example is right on point someone who lives on the south side of the of the island their interest is not going to be as great as somebody that's right next door the next um criteria that you should look at is the risk of making a mistake and as I Illustrated U the risk of making the mistake would be letting them go through the entire process and then it's raised on appeal and then it's a doover so I think the risk may or may not be great but I would prefer to avoid that scenario that's the abundance of caution criteria you put yes all right and then the last is the probative value as far as how much is that affected party really going to add to the conversation and to your decision making process okay and those uh that criteria I believe came from the claron case which was um from 2011 so it's you know okay let's hear from the attorneys go ahead thank you again Richard DT I appreciate it so one thing the the idea of intervenor in the town is not something new um if you recall the aabon case the oton society was a fored intervenor status so we're not recreating the wheel here this is something that the town has done in the past um as far as stero we are a neighboring property we are an affected property uh and one of the other criteria that I think I put in my letter is do you have the right to receive notice and if you have a right to receive notice you're clearly one of the affected parties and you should be brought here so from our point of view we're not going to spend a lot of time this is not going to be a 10-minute presentation I am here along with our expert planner Jeff kadum um I'm probably going to be a couple minutes he'll be a little longer to just go into more of the meat of the detail and then we may have one cross-examination question or two that's going to be the extent of it but I think we do meet the criteria and I would ask for you guys to defer and to the attorney thank you Mr dwit thank you and Miss tibo why do you object we object for a couple of reasons um first and foremost this intervenor status situation is not quite as cut and dry as it seems the town's Land Development code does not have a process for interveners there's no deadline by which to request intervenor status there's no actual articulable standards for meeting a test for standing to be an intervenor because when you become an intervenor you become a party and typically to become a party in a proceeding you need to demonstrate standing and so the test that uh Miss stuper articulated is one that pertains to procedural due process and what is afforded to any any party generally however there's a test for standing that applies for let's say somebody gets a zoning approval and an adversely affected property owner appeals that decision to the court first they have to prove standing and there's actually a test set forth in Renard vade County and there is no bright line test we look at factors like proximity that is one factor we look to the character of the area to be affected and we look at the nature of the changes that are being proposed and directly after the court in Renard V dat County discusses these factors they also say that while notice whether a party is entitled to receive notice is a factor it is not controlling okay and so here we don't really have any guidelines for when a person or an entity can or cannot intervene both from a timing perspective and also from a standing perspective and I would argue that's something that really is Town policy and when we're talking about town policy we're really talking about decisions that need to be made by the legisl body which is Town Council so in the interest of upholding the procedures that are set forth in the code we would ask that intervenor status is denied however we are certainly okay with them making a longer presentation than three minutes um that that is not an issue for us but we don't have an articulable test I mean next thing we know we could have five more people trying to intervene before town Council it's really a slippery slope here and what your real objection is is that that's us granting them standing in your case that is something that we object to yes okay okay thank you thank you very much um thank you very much and the last thing I would just add um as they've said it's kind of flexible uh very discretionary is that remember that this is quasi judicial and the fundamental concepts of fairness and due process that that's also a litmus test for you to consider um we also have to keep decorum and as Miss tubo pointed out if we have five interveners um it can get a little bit out of hand um so with that said um at this point um perhaps establishing um what your thoughts are so that we can proceed with this matter in a very orderly fashion Jim what are your thoughts so counselor it was represented that there's nothing definitive in our code that either represents this as a process or discourages or discount it is that your understanding also yes that is my understanding so I heard the counselor um represent that we need to follow our code and because of that the intervener status shouldn't be granted concerned just case law and just Notions of due process so there is a body of law out there there that may not be codified in your code per se however it is applicable because it is the law okay thank you that handles it for me right now chair what do you think I think I would prefer to erir in h favor of having the record complete with everyone having their say but we could give them their say and not grant them intervenor status but that then you run into the risk of uh a cross-examination is not allowed in testimony right but they would have that as an intervener status which might glean more information for us okay how about you Jones um I I'm actually in favor of increasing the amount of transparency and I think that we will all gain something from hearing and I believe that there is going okay what do you think Don I agree with that Jim and joh okay Jane I agree I I think that the fact that they um are within the um area of notice that they do have standing to present and I think that is what we should do so do you want a motion for that follow up mam py May then if we go that route and Grant the presentation and by Jim's representation default intervenor status how do we prevent duplication of this over the next six meetings um without deadlines guidelines or criteria around it notices Etc I just want to be careful that we're not setting something that then allows this to be a repetitive action on any every in any case so you may be able to address that in your procedural rules um which will talk about criteria for it um some guidelines which could include time frames by which under yes I I think that would be acceptable um because that is basically the the posture and the opinion of the LPA um as far as the proper extent of of due process and fairness um Madam chair I think the best way to proceed well first of all we want to find out who's going to be testifying as experts and whether um the LPA as a body believes them to be experts in the area that they designate um and then um just to try to keep everything orderly um it may be appropriate to have staff simply do an introduction of the item so we all know what we're talking about followed by the applicant who has the burden of of proving that the criteria has been satisfied um followed by staff rebuttal and then the intervenor um if if they want to add and then of course public comment following that what you all think about a time limit for this intervener boy it just sounds awful you know I know maybe for the intervener uh is there a time limit well he made a statement that he would only be a couple of minutes and that their expert may be a little longer so so six minutes double the public comment to uh to voice what John said in the in the to make it appear totally transparent you don't want any time no I think they ought to have their say I don't like this I'm in favor of a time limit me too I am too need transparency but some liation I I I think this is yeah I'm with you Don I'm with you Don and I don't want to confuse transparency with duplication not enough about 15 or something I don't know just seems like we ought to have something what do you think Jane I agree time okay so what if we say 10 minutes love it second okay so so uh there there appears to be a majority of the coun of the Council of the LPA that would like to have Mr DT and his uh associate become interveners do they need to be qualified or what how I thought we didn't have to decide that till after we heard the information well so basically I think at this point it would probably be better that you are going to afford them intervener status I I believe that's the consensus is is there a is there a motion is there a motion to afford Mr DT and his associate Mr Kim uh intervener status so moved second any discussion on that motion all those in favor say I I I anyone anyone opposed I I'm opposed to it I'm opposed to it sorry um okay experts experts uh who is going to testify in this case as an expert would you all please stand because I'm thinking that you've not been qualified have you been qualified yet by the town of Fort Meers Beach yes you certainly have you have not would you come forward sir um it's really of this LPA body what do you mean what did I say um that you said the town of for my speech well you know I think broadly okay of the LPA yes sir go ahead yeah I'm Robert boyin uh from the pink shell how are you Mr boyin I'm great Anita good to see you again nice to see you as well um I I am uh my lifelong career has been in Hotel development management ownership uh and I'll just pick some highlights to establish the uh bonafides uh the first hotel I personally ever developed was uh what is now the linta on Summerland and that was done in 1986 uh following that I developed uh I worked on two projects the Marriott in uh Buffalo New York a Marriott in Columbus Ohio and then also a Marriott at the Southgate to Yos called Tanaya Lodge uh did major uh reconstru work and repositioning of Hotel 71 in Chicago uh and I'll stop there but I think the best example of the of the skill and the work is the pink shell uh which uh went from something that was very different than what it is today and uh that's really we're here to talk about the next chapter and so that's uh my experience thank you very much Mr boyin could we have a motion to accept Mr boyin as an expert so moved is there a second is's a motion by Jim and a second by Jane any objection to that motion thank you Mr boyin you're an official official expert for the LPA make my resume longer I know it um the other gentleman that stood would you come forward please go ahead good morning uh my name is Jeff cadams I am a professional planner um certified by the American Institute of certified planners I've been at this for more than 30 years I've represented more than 35 local governments uh as well as uh private sector developers uh I have drafted uh probably a dozen comprehensive plans and major portions thereof I have drafted more than half a dozen Land Development codes and I've administered probably 30 to 40 of them um um I believe that qualifies me as an expert on this matter thank you very much Mr katum may I have a motion please to accept Mr kadum as an expert in his field so moved thank you Jun thank you John any any objection to that motion okay so Mr cadum you're an expert for us today um thank you all Nancy uh We've read the uh We've read everything so can we start with can can we let Amy come to the podium now or not um well if uh St if she if Sarah just a brief introduction to the item and then Amy can come forward and carry the bir Sarah good morning Sarah propes with Belated Birthday my dear thank you you're welcome um so J jbo LLC um the pink owners of Pink Shell Resort are proposing a CPD to include existing properties that have been purchased by the property owner and to um amend and add some structures including a 40 unit Resort Hotel on The Bays side of a stero um and also to there is uh a slight change from the original agenda packet that you have and what the applicant um is now proposing they were previously proposing the removal of the entire Spa in White Sands and replacement with four units now they're proposing half of the spa be removed and only two units to be placed in that in in half the spa um so that results in one additional unit that's remaining so during the storm four units on the site were demoed uh well by the storm uh a single family residence a cottage and a duplex so that's four units um two of those units are being rebuilt as a duplex um one of those units can be used as um an equivalency Factor so you get two Hotel units out of that one density unit and then there's one remaining density unit um the applicant is also proposing five deviations the staff report included six uh apparently there was a change that uh did not get uploaded into our file so I apologize for that um I'll go through those deviations very quickly uh deviation one is uh changing a type c buffer which does normally require a wall to um include no wall uh the belief is that that will help with the view shed um a change from CR zoning District required 15ot setback to allow a 10 foot side setback and that's an area number two um which the applicant I believe should have on a map for you um but that is I believe the area of the duplex uh a deviation from the CR zoning District that requires a 20 foot rear setback um and that's for the boutique hotel to allow a 15ot rear setback uh a deviation from the CR required side setback of 15 ft to allow a 10ft side setback in the uh area number four which is the 40 unit uh Boutique Hotel on the Bayside uh there's also a correction uh that actually uh Mr cadum pointed out to me this weekend we had a phone call actually Friday uh and he pointed out that there was an error in in uh the request that CR zoning allows a maximum height of 40 of 30 not 40 um so my apologies for that incorrect uh deviation so they would be asking for a deviation to add 30 ft above the allowed 30 ft for a total of 60 foot um height above base flood elevation and six stories so they would need an a deviation of three stories and 30 ft um and then the final deviation that's in there is for a change to the floor to not count uh the floor area ratio and that for the garage but that is being removed by the applicant okay so that's just a brief walk through and I'll be back up here to answer any questions you may have thank you Sarah any any preliminary questions for Sarah okay thanks so much appreciate it good morning Amy good morning Anita and LPA members for the record Amy Amy too with retzel I have been sworn um our office does represent jbo LLC the applicant the destroyed dwelling units into two Hotel units within the White Sands building and reconstructing two of the previously existing development units as dwelling units um if you have any questions for me I'm happy to answer them this time oh any questions for Amy no thank you my dear thank you and with that Fred DRL will come on up thank you good morning good morning morning yep I flip through there okay all right um I did have some uh I always find this helpful I didn't print the entire presentation but I did print the things like the architectural renderings and the site plans so you can get a little bit a closer look thank you very much his name is Fred dck he might want to spell that for you yeah v d r o v d l i c you're welcome all right so we there will be a fair amount of detail I Shar in this because some of this I mean development of this age and this long gets to be can be a little bit confusing so uh we will walk through a number of slides trying to make sure that we understand exactly what the request is and then also dig in to uh uh the the building as proposed and the public benefits and we're going to have uh a number of people share uh the different pieces of that from the resort and from our architect but uh initially let's walk through the the location I think we all know this North End of the island um the one of the properties and the property that is we're proposing the 40 uh unit Boutique Hotel on is uh against uh bage Park and really their their maintenance area and then the rest of the the 11 acres is just approximately a mile north of Times Square on the Bayside and on the Gulf side um the 11 acres is Total Property there is only six acres that is part of this commercial plan development because we obviously aren't rezoning the parts that is in the recreational future land use category and in the EC zoning District so it is just over six acres 6.02 Acres that are part of this CPD this will bring the Pink Shell Resort uh and their zoning into one unified captured all the historical things and make this accurate and in the future if there's any changes to be made anywhere we won't have to go through months of research to piece it all together and figure this out so we tried to codify everything that's from the from the past into the future capture the old conditions and move this forward as a unified CPD part of that is because there is an additional property that has been purchased by Pink Shell um that I'll show you is a 309 Estero Boulevard on the south end of the Bayside was added to the property it's still in the CR Zone District so this will capture that property as well and make one unified CPD for the entire property so the the past so this was first rezoned in 1982 so a lot of the units and the density and stuff that we we're dealing with today was was done pre-incorporation um the boyin group acquired Resort in 1998 and uh changes heading into the current configuration and Heights in 200200 1 uh in present uh post postan recovery saw the loss of uh four Cottages um one was that single family uh property that was on the Bayside and then there was the duplex and a cottage that was on the golf side on the south side of like the white sand building um those were gone and raised and um we're looking forward to a final configuration of the resort um at one point uh everybody's prob pretty aware that uh we were having discussions about a parking garage that had a lot more units on top of that on the Bayside was pretty it was a pretty substantial building we think we were trying to probably solve solve a problem that was that either wasn't appropriate the timing was right or just not needed at the moment you know with parking on the island um so once we saw that just that wasn't the appropriate time wasn't maybe appropriate for that for the North End a little bit out of character and scale um so we went back and said what what does the resort really need and then what can we do as a public benefit to offset that need and um so we looked at just a smaller boutique hotel which is an important part of the inventory on the on the beach uh for rental units and uh that are going to be managed by uh the boyin group and the pink shell as part of the rental pool and we thought that was a a good solution um and we will get into this because of the the amount of letters that that that uh note the fact that we're going against our prior agreement where there was a density transfer from the Bayside to build more units and a and more height on the White Sands building this property was never part of that agreement that was not the property and we'll show that very clearly now because we're trying to make improvements to that property where that agreement was made keep the view corridors we're not touching them um in no way are we affecting the original Covenant that was made so I will show that this property was never included in that piece because this property with the 40 uh unit hotel is on the other side of the dilap dilapidated building it's separated by a parcel that is not owned by The Resort so that was never part of this so so we'll hit on we'll hit on that and I'll show you the you know a piece of the Covenant just to show you that it's it's referenced by lot numbers it's it's fairly clear so I think there was just a misunderstanding out there that probably from the original request when were affecting that view corridor um that that's carried over but we are not doing that and we're going to offer improvements to that view corridor and really try to make it something special so that's the future of this is we're trying to add that that Boutique Hotel um add the two units back to where the cottage and the duplex was um and convert half the spot um I guess the recommendations years ago for the 6,000 ft Spa was a lot um it's never really been fully utilized uh to that extent um so to convert that into two units is just really a better use of space in that way um but we want to keep it because it is an amenity um and it is used so we want to keep the half of the spa so that was part of what we thought through is just well we don't want to take away that kind of uh not even a special benefit just just an amenity that can be used by the public but used by The Resort as well so um just reduce it down to really the way it's used currently and then convert the other area the other 3,000 ft into two units so that's how that came about and then it and then this is getting into details of resorts and what they are but the the size around the 240 unit for the amount of menes that you have to produce even for for where they are now really that sweet spot of operation is around that 240 mark it's just an efficient place for resorts to be allows us a lot more um ability to put money into the town and infrastructure and other things um and it just makes for a very efficient uh Resort based on the amenities provided and allows us to contribute the community in ways that we want to go over so that's a kind of the broad overview but I don't want to take all all all Bob's Thunder here I want him to share a little bit about the vision and his history with the pink shell Resort and go over that so I'll let Bob come back up here and run through thank you thanks Fred well as I indicated I'm the uh CEO of boyin management company and I'm the managing partner of jbo jbo is a wellth thought out highly consulted name it's Jack and Bob mashed together so uh that's the story technical yes right well simple sounds like tequila uh when people think of a pink shell I'm G to to Guess that most people think of Bill watus uh and that's with a good uh reason uh bill is the face of the resort uh we started working together in 2006 and uh it's been a it's been a great relationship uh for all those years and he's contributed uh dramatically to the vision of what the pink shell is but to take you back in time and to how we got here so our the company was started by uh my Brothers on my father in 1959 when they had this idea to build a 100 unit Motor Lodge across from the University of notor Dame and then we were Off to the Races in the hotel business and that went along quite well we hooked up with Marriott as early franchisees uh but the long story short there is that uh in 1994 we started a rollup of the real estate and in 1996 we took a company public in a real estate investment trust and then two years later is when we acquired the pink shell and that was part of the names are the same in that it was boy and lodging but the uh legal ownership changed in uh 2006 when we got that company sold to private Equity but we bought the pink shell from them nobody thought the pink shell had any value we tended to differ so we we got the hotel uh in that time frame but prior to that just to put an edge on our experience here I mean we've operated hotels in Orlando two in Melbourne Sunny is Miami Beach Dural Treasure Island uh Mar marathon and uh so we have pretty deep experience in just Florida alone and uh as I my career evolved I want wanted to go into things that we could control the vision of and that is exhibited at the pink shell but the brands were always U difficult and so we elected to go our own way and then ended up doing quite a number of independent hotels as a result um I've lived here in Florida since 2007 uh and pink shells now you know it's an iconic Resort on the island but in Florida I would argue as well and probably one of the best things we did and it took us a while I guess to figure out maybe we ought to paint it pink and I think it is such a uh logical uh thing but it really is a postcard for Fort Meers Beach um so you know in 19 998 when we bought the pink shell it was a collection of stuff it was a lowrise motel buildings it was a a field of 47 Cottages uh and and then it we we had leases with some of our neighbors we were leasing units out of beach villas and Vacation Villas and and but so it was a uh it didn't fit a category in the industry and so our vision was what you see today which was to transform it and over that period of uh early 2 to 2007 is when the development really happened we made it what it is today and we think it's pretty cool uh our customers do and uh we we are prior to Ian of course Everything's changed after that but prior to Ian our net promoter scores were on par with Ritz Carlton and our customers were uh real fans we had a real phraisy going on and so we've got a all we're always trying to think about what's the next chapter and it's not just about stuffing how much square footage can we get on a parcel of dirt the reason for the parking deck concept that we had before that was a discussion that started before Ian uh and so it was in re in reaction to the sort of traffic and parking issues on the island and then but it really uh it it was too much and uh we recognized that and so we stepped away and said you know in this day and age I don't even think you could Finance something like that I mean it's uh it's just crazy so uh in in the in the spirit of uh listening to the island we we dialed it back to what we have here today uh you know I had the advantage when I was uh doing this project and coming up with the vision for it um I would always check in with Roxy and got great from her uh she she was uh very wise lady and uh provided real guidance that uh uh we got her insights and we're able to put that historical perspective uh I think in the right context so um I uh we put 75 million in to develop what you see there sadly we had to go put 80 million back in after the hurricane so uh I have to tell you it was it was a uh it was it was it was a real job to build the resort but it was an extraordinary job to rebuild it all in 18 months and get up on the island you know we were early on to getting open and housing our first customers of course were all FEMA recipients and uh but that was all just part of doing two things helping the community and getting our team back to work when this last Hur when Milton just went through uh I mean you can hire bfor or one of those companies to come in and push brooms for you uh and they'll bring in day labor wherever they find them we rejected that when uh Ian hit us and we rejected it through every other hurricane we want our people pushing the brooms we want our people uh managed by the Restoration company but but we want our people getting the paychecks and so that's just a you know philosophy about how we think business ought to be done um I think we've proven one of the things about the jbo and boyin management company you don't have to ask yourself well who are these guys what do we know about them what have where have they done this elsewhere we've been here for 25 years doing this and our record is transparent you know we are what you see we've been good neighbors you know we we bill will able to take you through all the things we've done to uh we used to fight with Eve on Turtles and it's a hard battle to to fight because you know binoculars laying in the dunes I mean you you you're going to find some so the The Simple Solution of course was make the whole property Turtle compliant which we did we're the first hotel to have done that as as we were the first hotel to get designated a four Palm Florida green lodging so that's uh what we do and can we move ADV oh there we are just to note I mean we we tried to analyze okay what's it worth for something like this and so this this just articulates what the 44 unit development would produce uh from the tax uh uh Revenue um can we advance next and then and then this is the an example of uh you know you are recognized we are recognized for being good at certain things and this is a list of some of those things whether it's uh you know couple's Choice the wedding knot uh the boers choice in the our Marina kinast where we've been in the top uh 20 resorts for I don't know how many years 10 of them probably so you know this this quality is important on the beach we we want to uh Elevate the vision of Fort Meers beach in people's minds and this type of activity I think does that um so that's a little bit about uh how we got here uh and uh we're the just the organization that St stands behind Bill wulus and helps him do his magic so with that any questions or I'll turn it over to Fred thank you Bob very much thank you it sounds like you're getting a raise bill I don't know but that's how it sounds all right let's get into you know building the record so to speak on my plan for my planner status and and just making sure we're all clear you know what's happening today and what we're requesting so uh as we mentioned the reasones from a commercial plan development and Commercial resort to a unified CPD um that does show that we're capturing you know some of the stuff that's in the EC that is not accurate anymore that is uh we're just doing the stuff that's in the EC and show you that on the next page whoops after the future land use category so future land use um we're in the mixed residential uh that's the six acre area that's in the dark red and then the light the lighter pink that's in the recreational future land use category which is not part of the resoning request so there is no change to the Future land use category we don't have a comp plan Amendment we're not trying to amend anything in the future land use category uh we weren't didn't need to do that to to make this request the uh existing environment of it there's three three buildings uh Resort buildings on the Gulf side um and you'll hear us referred to them as White Sands Captiva Villas and Santa Bel View Villas um there was a there is a vacant pad on the south end of the White Sands building that is was previously developed with the duplex and the cottage that we that were destroyed as we mentioned um and then there's Associated parking outdoor men these pools Sund deex uh water sports for the resort um as I mentioned prior one additional lot on the Bayside that was purchased that had a single family home on it that is no longer there as well um we're not replacing the a single family unit on that in fact that'll be part of a Park Lake area and a boardwalk that we're proposing um there's also a marina on the Bayside has 41 wet slips and in a fairly recent rezoning I I think a year year and a half ago um there's for 30 39 allowed uh as liver board slips uh and then there's a dockmaster building as well um and parking lots for guest and employees on that side as well all right here's the uh here's the mCP it's it's not necessar hard to it's a little hard to read but this is the act the zoning document that would be approved it is in your packet is an 11 by 17 some of the highlights on there I pointed out is just where the new Boutique Hotel is so on the North End or on the left of that map the um two two unit Spa conversion area um in the White Sands building um the new Boardwalk I do have little better graphics for this as well but U the new Boardwalk area and then the additional lot is to that South End on the Bayside and then the little square standing out there by itself on the south end on the Gulf side is where the new duplex uh is proposed to show that a little more clearly I have this and then we have some other Graphics as well so the red areas are the places where there will be new proposed units the blue areas are the agreed upon view corridors that are in the Covenant on the Bayside the red area the red box is that Covenant agreement parcel The View Corridor is then going to be able to be expanded South to that new lot where the uh you know where the board there's a boardwalk in the middle of it there but it's white it's not included in that original Covenant obviously because it's a recent purchase the view corridor can then be expanded into that area as well there's nothing there now uh nothing no right nothing there now um does have access to the dock that's there um which is part of what we're proposing to be you know drop off for the water taxi if that comes to fruition um all right this was just just was a slide that I put in there just to try to be clear there's obviously the Covenant that is a PDF that is a public public knowledge or the public uh publicly available um but this shows the original the original Covenant Covenant the Lots the dense density transfer exhibit that was included in that original Covenant I do have some copies of that if somebody wants that uh PDF um but for your knowledge I put this in there just to show that we're not trying to do you know address anything in that area that was from the original Covenant and it's identified by lcks that match our survey the so part of what we're trying to do here and part of what we were looking at not the density pie whoops so this is a summary of the density request and or the overall request so applying the underland underlying feature land use uh of mixed residential um using the maximum allow equivalency factor of two would result in 72 Hotel units obviously we're beyond that the current zoning allows 199 units of density as a hotel and hotel condo there's 195 in the white sand and Santa Bel and Captiva buildings and there's those four units three three one duplex Cottage and then a single family home the proposed CPD would increase the number of units on the combined CPD Parcels by 40 um so it's a 17% increase the unified CPD would then have 239 hotel and hotel condo units on the six acres so that works into be 40 units per acre if we apply density now with that said the floor area ratio in the CR District that we're part of is 1.2 the proposed building 78,000 ft um including existing buildings then we would be about 320,000 square fet and this includes all parking on both gulf side and Bayside if we count all the ground level parking and all the buildings and the building that's proposed we would be at at or below the 1.2 F so we do meet the intensity we're not asking for a deviation there we obviously do not meet the density since density and hotel are still tied together in the Land Development code so the overall summary the final result if this would be approved would be 197 hotel and hotel condo units and then uh that that would be uh the two unit the spa conversion and then um um two residential units that would a duplex that would be built where the former Cottage and duplex was um and then of course a new 40 unit hotel or Boutique Hotel building in the CPD area number four so there's on your mCP I Mark the different areas as CPD Area 1 two 3 4 so we can note them um and then obviously with the other things that are already existing the uh all the amenities with the pink shell and the Marina so we aren't asking for a deviation for FL ratio and we also are not not asking for a deviation for parking with the surface parking existing parking and the parking we can have under the proposed building we will meet to the strictest standards um the parking requirements um because we just took everything individually that would be required even the the restaurant and some of the other amenities that are in pink shell and and look through what would be required for parking we do we will and can meet that um and we do think based on seasonal flows and everything there's probably quite a few spaces left over if there would be overflow need in bage or one of the other areas there's public the public can use the parking lots particularly the surface lot on the Bayside so there is some parking available there we don't need a deviation for parking so stories and Heights of course is a different is a different story so to speak so we do we are going above that um so flood current flood elevation at this area is 19.6 in and you'll see that Mike she can share any details about that yeah 19 feet six inches what did I say you said 19 we gonna say lucky you yeah that's great pick The High Ground yeah something all right just about 20 feet um above grade um so then we're proposing 60 feet above that um six stories and 60 ft above design flood elevation which is where we would have to build that lowest horizontal structural member um currently on the other side White Sands is 11 stories um it's 92 feet above base flood it's a 111 ft total Captiva Villas uh is eight stories uh 83 ft above base flood elevation um Santa BDW Villas uh is six stories 70 ft above base flood so that's the Gulf side buildings that are currently existing and then across the street from the proposed building is really the most affected and it's the Vacation Villas and they're called pink shell Vacation Villas but it was just because what I was referring this is a pink shell Beach area but this is uh not part of the pink shell um they're the most affected they are a seven story building but they are lower because they were built at a lower Bas flat elevation at the time I think it was around 8 ft so um 57 feet above Bas flood elevation I think I have that exactly I think I have that right um but it's uh so we're about 65 ft there so this building we're proposing is slightly taller them mostly because of design flood and the taller stories uh in between you know 10t stories now um and then the additional uh almost 12 feet of of Base flood elevation that we need to have so I did try to do my best to do a little summary slide here of that showing you the pink shell are areas of the pink the PE the places that are in the pink shell the place where the new hotel condo would be on your right side of that picture on the left side would be where the new duplex is and showing the heights um now that's from ground level so this is the total Heights of the buildings from grade so the new proposed building will be just below 80 feet Vacation Village across the street we would be 14 ft higher 12 of that is because of of Base flood um we will be one less story but still we are a little bit taller shorter than the rest of the pink shell buildings and comparable to um the stero Island and Island Shores beach club we're a little bit taller than than those with the building we're proposing but we're I would say in the ballpark so to speak and the duplex would be three stories and it says 40 feet that's wrong just three stories and 30 feet and that would the duplex we are going to comply with the height and stories uh rest restrictions of the CR district there all right so now I want to go over and show you the building have Mike walk through um some of the details of that some of the choices that we made and why and let him show that come on Mike good morning good morning good to be back with you let's see which way do I go here that's right uh so let me just uh summarize will you say your name for the sorry Michael Shey arit with MK architecture in Fort Meers uh the building uh as uh Fred has described is um five living units over one level of parking five living levels over one level of parking each uh each level contains eight living units units range uh on a preliminary basis from 950 to 44 1480 sare ft so they're generally on the smaller side most of the units are smaller the U the height as you mentioned is is about 80 ft total about 70 feet um 60 well roughly 70 feet over the base flood excuse me 60 ft over the base flood the uh the uh the floor plan is simple the building is kind of a a rectangle square that's angled with the property line here you see the front view the driveway entrance is on the right side of the building for the underground parking and that's showing a gate there for parking for the residents and there's adequate parking under the building for these units the uh the first four floors are all the same they're all identical the fifth floor you'll see at the top there maybe there's a view that shows it better uh you see the fifth floor is steep back from the St and we have a roof deck up there that's actually usable by by all of the residents uh that would give you a nice Peak through view over to the gulf through the other buildings um the the structure would be all concrete of course uh pre-stressed uh piling and post tension slabs and cord columns above we have two stairs we have two elevators a central core that's very small it just has stairs and elevators in it with a walk around um uh that has access to each unit and here's the view from from the north side there it shows the arrangement of the of the living levels let see what else we have here let me go back just this one in this view you see we've rebuilt that beautiful little house next door I thought you might like that very ni little artistic license there but it looks good anyway that's kind of how the building is laid out I'd be happy to answer any questions on the the AR thank you very much Mr Sheely any questions for the gentlemen no no thank you thank you very much Don did you have any question Don are you there no okay question okay I was on mute sorry all right that's all right that's all right all right we're going to bring up Bill wulus um with all his accolades we thought it unfair to not have him be be part of this so I mean this is an obvious good morning for the record Bill wulus pink shell good morning Bill Head Cabana Boy the pink shell um I I think before I get into the public benefits I want to mention that uh um you know how we got to the 239 units you know esto Island beach villas um and Vacation Villas they used to be in our rental program and four years about four years ago we made a business decision because it was we don't control the public areas of those of those properties um we're really not a vacation rental company so when a guest came in to experience one of our pink shell units and then experien one of those vacation rental units being in beach villas or Vacation Villas it caused a lot of complaints so we made a decision not to rent those uh anymore and that's why we've gotten this number of 239 because the facilities all handled all these rentals before and that's why we're we're looking to get to that number so so obviously things that we looked at as for the density is what what could we offer to the public and one was is the relocated public access on the Bayside enhancing that putting it out on to the water side so you could actually get down by the water um than what it was and enhancing that more um there's a slide that coming up that'll show that a a little bit better um the WEA is is we've done now the the vegetation at the pink shell now twice um so um a bill everybody has I know it's just so I had a great meeting with the Garden Club um Kathy and Rose are a wealth of knowledge and um you know my extent of landscaping is green good Brown bad so they they really helped in in giving us some guidance um but we want to maintain in per in perpetuity that that landscape that's um Town owned in front of the Ping shell um and and maintain that um obviously with an approved plan um as a public benefit you know it it's in you know it's important for us as a guest arrives that you know if there was a dead tree or plant that we can just take care of it because do you have that agreement with the town naville no no this would be a a new public benefit that we we're offering okay um there's been conversations about uh having a water taxi route um we obviously being with the marina we'd be more than happy to be a drop off and and pick up a location for the North End um it works out well with our dock Master being able to come down and help tie up the boat and and handle that um so we would willing more than willing to be a a water taxi pick up and drop off um one of the things that we're doing right now is I guess it's been a Hot Topic I've heard is the pump out uh for the the moing field um you know we have the pumpout services we are doing that right now for the town I think it's the boat comes in about three four times a week we pump it out um if you're not familiar what that means it's all the morningfield boats the restrooms the town has a boat that actually goes and pumps those out otherwise you know you want to make it easy that they're not pumping it into our water um and then we pump it out on the dock into our into the sewer um we're willing to continue to do that in perpetuity uh for the town um I think it solves a problem of I think residents don't want it in their backyard so we're willing to have it in our backyard so uh CU we do it anyways uh for for voters um the next one and fr that this is more of just a a reference is the you know when you look at development and infrastructure is there that's that's a good one there um okay U infrastructure the storm water on the North End uh it was a obviously a challenge back in the day it flooded it was horrible the town owns that end of the of the road um but there was an issue the town had was where do you put this water and they need the land we made an agreement and this is you know the year's blend it's 2010 um on two part parel part on the Bayside of the parking lot we have large the large containment area for all the storm water for the north end comes into those easement granted you know we're not saying that's a a public benefit we just want to remind everybody we did this and we did it for the right thing to do for the town and for our North End residents um because if we didn't do it there was nowhere to send that water so it was a a uh a nice benefit that we did and and those catacombs are underneath the the park parking lots for the North End um commute connect program so we have two this is a good one as you speak to other businesses coming through is we work with the fdot and Le Tran we have two Vans they handle they're two 15 passenger vans um we mainly uh utilize them right now for our housekeeping and we shuttle the Associates in every day on those vans one goes to Lehigh one goes the North Fort Meyers um if you imagine that's 30 cars that would be coming over to the Ping shell and we have that we're actually looking at enhancing that it's roughly about $2,500 $3,000 a van includes the maintenance and we pay the driver a little bit more but it's a a works out to be a great benefit for the employee um because the transportation is included but also solves the traffic and parking issue so um that's one that we're doing and that we would continue and and probably continue to enhance it uh improved Transportation circulation we've got the golf carts um B uh bicycles are included when you rent uh at the pink shell so uh we so makes it easy for our guests they don't have to pay for those bicycles we want to encourage them to use those other modes of transportation rather than uh taking their car out um we we obviously handle the pre-arrival a little bit different than other Resorts we have a con and we call every guest and try to make them informed about you know you don't need to bring a car if you wanted to come to the Ping shell everything's there the trolley so we call every guest we try to make pre-arrival arrangements you know if they want a cabana cheeky Hut um dinner on the beach um uh airport transportation um we handle all of that pre- arrival um Bay Oaks and the stero um uh program summer programs obviously didn't have a pool this past summer um probably not going to have a pool for the next year or two um hopefully gets back we're willing to continue to have them come and use our our pool um there there's I mean nothing worse than having a summer program a kid not be able to go in the pool so it worked out well uh the kids really enjoyed coming to the pink shell and swimming in the facilities uh Community Day passes we obviously continue to do that uh we're um we have actually U more residents doing it now unfortunately after these last two storms where they've lost their pools um coming to to use the the day passes and then as Bob mentioned um we're a four Palm which is the highest designation by the state um for green lodging uh Turtle Conservancy and then we um uh are completely certified on the on the turtle side and then this new building obviously would would contined to be part of that program this is the um kind of the walkway area that we're looking to enhance for the for the the the public benefit um bringing it out more out to the water to where you could walk along the edge um rather than kind of it's more inside the the parking area um I think it it'd be nice it's great to be able to go and see you know the the boats that we have come in I mean there's I mean we'd handle up to 120 foot yacht it's amazing when to go and look at some of these boats that come in and some of their names are just hilarious but uh but uh that that's a and then you can see the green on the added area that's the lot we purchased uh from Skip and doy and uh um that would increase that that view corridor um obviously uh as we mentioned we're uh try to be do as much as we can as a good neighbor um you know the the the association right across the street um Vacation Villas um we are working with the board there of coming to an agreement um and we know that this building is going to you know cause some heartache for them um and what we could do to help them um we hope to have an agreement in place before we go to council um it's been very positive um there's some things that they're they're trying to get cleared up in regards to a parking easement that we're looking at enhance parking for them they have a challenge with parking and uh we're looking to enhance their parking for them um and then obviously as I mentioned we met with Kathy and Rose in the on the Garden Club in regards to the Landscaping um that I'm going to give it back to Fred if there's any questions for me be more for Bill okay thank you so much nice job all right um so now I get get into Land Development code and comp plan a little bit um want to walk through the those deviations so I'm going to this is a summary slide of that um I can't I can leave that up but I mean it might be just as easy for me to describe it and on the next page I have the uh kind of colorcoded Master concept plan to to show you where are these deviations because it gets a little bit confusing um deviation one is in the dark green so it's on the the north side and Southside on the bay uh those those parking lots where uh and the where we're proposing as walkways which is in the purple there so staff wrote this up really well that that it's a type SE buffer we're going to do that in fact it'll be enhanced because we're going to make it really park-like and and much and wider than a type c buffer but type SE buffer calls for a wall um which would really kind of we think detract from the whole experience there be walking beside a wall we just close everything off um we'll landscape it as much as we need to to satisfies everybody but we just wanted to have a deviation for no wall uh deviation two and three both have to do with the duplex lot so lower right the Red Square where we're proposing the two units um I have a example here and it's a little the unfortunately the most accurate view because we can't use just leapa on this one because the the boundary lines are just off on the on the aerial but what we do have is this is from The Sur from a survey um and I outlined where the former houses were so this is a survey from 2021 and shows where the setbacks were on the duplex and on the cottage that were there prior um so the duplex was kind of you know anywhere from just a little less from 1T 1T to 10 foot um the rear was from 3 feet to maybe 10t and and uh and on the South Side um 10 to 13 ft setbacks so we are asking for a deviation for those but we're I think we're drastically improving the conditions including all parking to be under under the buildings now it I mean you can see the parking was out in the Gulf Shore Court um prior to that so now we would be able to get those cars off of that that easement and that that area um so to and to and it's a small lot obviously so there were three units on it we're only proposing two it's a small lot um so to adhere to the uh full setbacks would leave a fairly small area for each duplex probably less than uh around 35 ft uh 35t square that doesn't count if there would be any Leni or porch or overhang so it would get to be pretty tight pretty small so we we Justified it by feeling like we are improving the current conditions substantially or the former conditions substantially um while still providing uh um you know nice setbacks and buffers uh in this area so the deviation three or deviation four regard the new building so that's your upper uper left hand side um side setbacks required in the CR District are 15 um but there are no buffers requireed ired so we tried to you know kind of go in the middle there and say let's provide some buffers let's do some type B buffers make that look really good um um which can easily fit planting wise in 10 feet and do the 10 foot side setbacks um instead of 15 uh on that parcel but provide um you know per an approved landscape plan um a nice looking buffer in between those in between those buildings was suggested by staff to keep some of that low the Hedge is low so we aren't blocking more view of the bay than we need that's fine however however staff would want that done at the end of the day we'd be glad to accommodate that the deviation five is obviously for the height of that building we we need 30 feet over the uh allowed base flood elevation in order to accomplish that building um and then I think this is right did so there's a deviation six I mean we we were you know originally that was for floor area ratio relief from we aren't doing that but we do think in order to approve this there's the equivalency Factor needs to be deviated from um and so that deviation is on there where um the equivalency facts are uh where we're at now in the current Resort so if we take all the units that are there now um and apply equivalency factor to the density um keep in mind that at one point years and years me many years ago the entire 11 acres were counted but now we understand it's only the six acres so it's only at 36 units um time you take that times two which is the max equivalency Factor you have 72 we're requesting 2 239 so the existing Resort is at 5.4 equivalency Factor um with the improve with the additional units we'd be at 6.6 so that's the the the single deviation request for uh the height and for the equivalency are five and six the two big deviations today that we're asking for to be considered based on our public benefit and the other things that are put forward today um this is just shows where the new building would be in the current uh employee parking lot and Bill mentioned the the parking uh the vacation vills across the street has a parking issue they do have a number of leas spaces in that employee parking lot now um I know they're negotiating to add a few spaces to that and can allow them to continue I think that was I read in a number of letters that they were taking we were taking their parking spaces away with this new building that isn't the case um we'll probably be increasing that by a by a number that uh is still being worked on but but adding a few spaces to there and putting it underneath the garage in a gated gated facility so they'll have access to their spaces but it'll be shaded now and gated and secured um and then I think shows with even with the setbacks even with the deviation that we're improving the current conditions the parking was clear up against the the the bage property line and the the parking even though it's a little bit shadowed on the south side of budding that uh the dilapidated structure that's there parking was you know certainly with closer than 10 ft so we're trying to improve the current conditions uh with the new building and the tight B buffers uh should look good um Land Development Code Compliance uh for the most part think staff felt like we this project met the great majority of the criteria for approval obviously where they didn't um I mean with us meeting the far with the intensity that was a big deal um but we didn't meet the density and we understand that because of that and because of the height being interpreted by staff to be needing to be surrounded or AB budding versus across the street that it wasn't feeling comfortable there as well so those were the two points where I think led to led to the recommendation of denial because really it's more of a policy decision based on the public benefits than it is meeting the LDC in that way we do meet the the request for the additional density through the deviation for the equivalency Factor but that's again that's a policy decision based on the uh the Nexus of the public benefits um and then uh the proposed mix the use um we do believe we're appropriate there with with neighbor what we call Neighborhood compatibility I mean we're proposing the similar type of use um units being in the rental pool controlled by Pink Shell as they are now which provide a high level of of uh control over several factors you saw what they did to try to reduce traffic with the units to provide alternative transportation um tie in the sidewalks and try to really make that little that least that little area very walkable and very nice and a pleasant experience so just trying to do everything they can to offset those um things so and then the height and the type of use is the same as the rest of those uh uses even as stero Island and Vacation Villas and all those it really ties into a similar use but probably even more controlled than some of those um to a higher level uh of effort um because they can because of the size of their Resort and the and the resources that they have so that gets down to the end here um well there's comp comp plan consistency I outlined some of the uh places where we do have where we meet the comp plan the uh policy 1 A1 uh is about changes along a sterile Boulevard should improve on the characteristics that make it a Boulevard in character and not just in name you know safe and interesting to walk along impressive landscaping and scaled to people rather than uh highspeed traffic that's a lot of what we're trying to to do with the uh the enhance landscaping and really taking uh control of that prob part of it taking the burden off the town because to replace those things every time out of town it's expensive um there isn't necessarily budget always set aside for that so um and the other part is just really making it a more attractive uh Boulevard in that way um mixed residential uh I think that the type of use we're proposing we we meet that uh it's mixed residential reads where it's designed for older subdivisions with mixed housing Types on smaller Lots um and newer high-rise buildings and commercial activities such as motels must be sensitive nearby residential uses and complement any adjoining commercial uses and contribute to the public realm as described in the comp plan um and meet the Design Concepts and we believe we we we've done our best to try to to to meet that the mixed residential and and try to provide substantial public benefits um build building Heights we believe uh so individual parts of land are so surrounded by tall buildings on lots that are contiguous or directly across the street so we we feel like we do meet that as is consistent with the character of the area um because of the other existing Heights um 705 hidden path system I thought this was this was great so this is really what we were trying to do by enhancing and making that Boardwalk a little bit something special is uh creation of network of hidden paths running along the Bayside parallel to a stero Boulevard um alternative these networks provide alternatives to walking and cycling along the stero Boulevard um as designed in the community or as further uh mentioned in the community design element so we did that was a big piece of really trying to make that something special along the water um and in traffic impacts you heard I mean obviously we can't say we don't add to traffic by adding a building it does add to it does add some but because it's a those units will be in the rental pool controlled by Pink Shell Resort we've done everything we can as a resort to uh provide Alternatives and to control the amount of cars that people use when they come to the pink Sha Resort and that will be part of that system as well um so there I'm down to just the the the path to approval um we hit on some of that and I'm going to let Amy sum up right after I go through these but um the path for approval is a deviation through the uh Land Development Code Section 341 18031 which um proposal meets the F but we we we exceed the density equivalent so we are asking for a density equivalent of 6.6 for the entire CPD that would allow 239 units um and then there are criteria for that so 341 18032 um guest units exceeding equivalency factors or exceeding 1,000 ft each may be allowed under exceptional circumstances uh if approved as a deviation through a plan development rezoning so but before approving such a deviation you must find that there's three things um one all other aspects of the development so height traffic intensity of use are compatible with the surrounding area we do believe those things are now does say compatible with the surrounding area we do believe we are compatible we the do we increase traffic slightly probably but is it compatible with what the existing uses that are there yes we think we meet this criteria Pros the clear exceeds all standards in Fort Meers Beach comp plan I think we do um we meet that uh we meet the comp plan and that's why the reason we were not needing to ask for any uh uh Amendment to the comprehensive plan and then in no case can equivalency Factor increase exceed the maximum intensity without Fort Meers Beach uh in uh comprehensive plan um and then by allowing that deviation that's where we meet that so there we are and then we'll have Amy come up do a I think there's a summary and a conclusion and that she'll want to make and then we'll be here for questions and to hear the public thank you Fred hello again I'll keep it short I think Fred and the entire project team did a really nice job of summing up the facts of this request thank you the facts of this request uh as applied to the codified criteria not just for the CPD but for all of the deviations and then of course the specific criteria on top of that for the requested increase and density equivalency factor for the hotel units it's mouthful so you know the most important thing here is that we meet all the requirements the deviations that we're requesting are permissible under the Land Development codes Provisions they are permissible you know under the provisions of the comprehensive plan um one nice thing about this request that I want to point out I think the thing that's on everybody's mind right now is public benefit and one of the big questions that I know you guys are are trying to answer and that Town Council is trying to answer and we certainly appreciate your efforts and doing so is whether view corridors count as a public benefit and if so to what extent the really nice thing about this request is we don't have to contemplate that we're already expanding The View cord doors plus we are providing a robust portfolio of public benefits on top of all of the resident and public amenities that the resort already provides so with that I will conclude but if you have any questions for me please let me know I'd be happy to answer them thank you Amy any questions for misso okay thank you very much uh Nancy are we having Sarah now or are we having the intervenor generally it would be staff after the applicant but if it's your choice as long as they have the opportunity all right I feel everything has been fairly well the single family dwelling that would demolished on the Bay Side to the South um but by them asking for the equivalency Factor that's how they come to this um it is a complicated issue and I'm going to need to do a little bit more math to make sure that I agree with all the numbers before we put you know before anything where to go to council to make sure that that is the correct ask um but this is similar to what a lot of other uh hotel motels on the island have done requested uh an equivalency Factor so saying they have this many um acres and then we multiply it by the the allowed density there um in this instance though it's it's sort of a different situation because they have the allowed density that's much higher than what uh they would be allowed by the current comprehensive plan because the number of units that were already there um so it is a slightly different be uh with with the numbers um so do you not include the 39 Li boards in their count of units the Land Development code talks specifically about liver boards I believe that it says that it's not part of the density let me double check on that though o um I may not be able to get to it munot is acting very strange today well that is part of my question also because if you do count that the two units at the spa and the duplex you're at 239 before adding the 40 but you also have to keep it so I I'll sit down and I'll look for the liveboard language because I believe that it's not counted towards the density that's that's my but I can't find it um something weird has been going on with Med code but um so we wouldn't I believe count the liver boards but we would um we would basically give them the allowed units that they already had by all of the other approvals we wouldn't necessarily count that against them um so this is something that Fred and I need to go back and forth on probably to make sure that that number is correct um but that is the process for them to get to it and and this is included this is the parking lot that is the employee parking lot currently what is where the 40 units are going to go no no um well there's the large parking lot that's in front of the marina right um and then there is the location where the tennis courts were previously that's right next to bage Park um so it's that lot next to bage Park I'm not sure how it's currently being used it it kind of looks like a parking lot and I know that the thing that it's existing employee parking lot okay and I know that um the pink shell Vacation Village does have some parking over there also so that that may be the case any other questions Jane well I'll let somebody else speak first any other questions Jim not here Jim I have I have a couple um but for the CPD being unified here what would the density and F on the new developed piece the 40 unit piece be as a standalone piece um I believe it's 043 Acres uh it's a six dwelling units per acre location so multiplied by one and a half or two depending on the unit size or even less um so that would give them six units potentially um I couldn't tell you what the f is no but I I understand that but because the benefit of combining all of these properties is their basis for justifying The increased viability of the units that is the way that it it would be allowed if it were a standalone unit that wouldn't it wouldn't be something that could be done and would you articulate for the record uh the reasons of Staff recommended denial yes um at that time it was based on the uh density equivalency uh which it didn't appear that they had at the time the staff report was written they were creating four units at White Sands which would have used the two remaining density units um with a multiplier of two to get the four uh by revising to only ask for two units they have one remaining unit on which they could ask for an equivalency factor of 40 by doing this new equivalency Factor they are requesting a different equivalency Factor based on the density of the entire uh development however the previous way that it was put together it didn't appear that there were any density units remaining to be used so is your recommendation changing I would need to do more evaluation I mean we evaluate uh deviations and justifica you know deviations by one section of the code we evaluate rezonings by one section of the code I when I write a staff report I don't know what I'm going to say until I get to the end I leave that top at the part at the top or approval highlighted and I come back to it after I answer all the questions um the other component that I was rejecting it on was based on the height they were asking for additional height and it appeared that uh the Land Development code and the comprehensive plan wouldn't um necessarily grant them that additional height because they weren't directly adjacent to another tall building and it was my reading of the code that they needed to be directly adjacent in order to ask for that additional those are both technical applications of your your uh understanding of the code against these requests that's just what it is that's correct okay that's what I thought anything else Jim no John um yeah I just want to um once again I guess clarify because I think there is a perception that there is density transfer going on from the existing open parking lot spaces and that previous there had been a covenant not to do that and I want to ensure that that we understand staff's position is that is not the case correct yes that's correct um it appears that that that parking lot area and it was it was a little unclear I agree in reading through the old ordinances which section of property they were talking about but it do appear that they only moved that density from the large parking lot with with the marina associated with it property it doesn't look like they removed it from that uh property on bage point although um if I haven't found the document that actually was for supposed to remove that uh density so um the the density came from the parking lot where the 700 foot building is for the dock master um in uh I believe it was resolution 007 um required that they move the units that were on the Bayside parcel where the parking lot and the the marina were or are um over across the street to the Gulf side correct yes so there is no density there to transfer to this 40 unit building but they're not transferring yeah that's not the request and the applicant testified on the record that is not connected to the density transfer that that happened historically so yes correct they're on they're on record for that that's correct uh Sarah my only question is these technicalities about equivalency fact and whatnot uh after we hear the public comment and the interveners uh can we take a break do you think you would have time to resolve that with uh the applicant or is it something that you would see uh you need more time between now and the C you can resolve it I believe it's it's something that we can resolve I have all the numbers from the different okay so you guys be ready to resolve it as well all right thank you very much Sarah oh wait wait wait Don yeah any questions yeah I think ping in on it but did St change the recomendation from den no not no but but they do want to clarify a couple of things that's what I asked Sarah so we'll uh we'll have more on that later Don okay thanks and then I have the same concerns that Jane has as well I mean amongst other things but I mean this is not a you know kind of a build back and it's a 40 unit place so anyway we'll I'll wait for staff to kind of correct whatever okay thank you Don thank you Sarah thank you okay i' I'd like now to ask the interveners to come forward I really hate that word although it could be kind if you were they were intervening on my behalf I would be glad it would be so yes it would be so much better so we've allotted you 10 minutes thank you again Richard DT on behalf of the interviewer um esto Island beach Village um I'm going going be a lot briefer now because our planner has a lot to unlock but I just want to go through a couple things and some of it may be procedural Nancy before Nancy sorry some may be procedural because we had a discussion earlier if something was submitted that was not published or not in the agenda regarding deviations then I don't so the question then is uh was the additional deviation uh noticed correctly so typically my understanding is is that the town does not specify all the deviations in their noticing so if it's in there if it's not in there it's not the noticing component of it would be correct okay um okay I'm going to proceed and then turn it over the planer so again this is a quasi judicial proceeding it's based on competent substantial evidence in the record your staff has already recommended denial of this proposed um deviation and the density Mr drolc already conceded they don't have the density so we're going to have to flush that out but I'm going to let the planner do that because he's more articulate than I am but at the end of the day staff's recommendation as to denial is what stands and so that being said I'm going to turn it over to Mr cadum thank you thank you I can't keep it hello again uh would you like me to um give my address for the record no it's not necessary but thank you great thank you okay you don't want to get unnecessary letters and things like that no definitely not much appreciated um I feel like there is a a rather large elephant in the room and I I'm trying to figure out how to how to put this in perspective um we've acknowledged the applicants acknowledged that the proposed CPD amendment is subject to the density equivalency Factor density equivalency factor is based upon the maximum density allowed in theen use plan category that this property is located within that's mixed residential six units per acre uh I do not see in the staff report any mention of a deviation for from the density equivalent factor I think that was added today uh on the floor don't think it was in the staff report don't think it was analyzed um I don't know where that came from and I don't think that's proper uh needs to be part of the application and needs to be analyzed by the staff and present it to you as a deviation um secondly if they were to have asked for that deviation which they didn't it's not allowable it's not allowable because the maximum equivalency Factor authorized in the comprehensive plan which is the controlling document is a is a equivalency factor of three an equivalency factor of three instead of the two uh in the Land Development code gives them about 105 units they already have uh about 195 so I don't find any basis for them to I I don't find any basis that they've asked for that deviation and I don't find a basis upon which the town can Grant such a deviation the Land Development code provides that just going to pull that up here it provides uh under the equivalent in division 19 it provides that under exceptional circumstances uh with several additional evaluation criteria attached to it again which aren't part of this request because it wasn't made prior to the meeting and it wasn't analized with these additional criteria that are in division 19 it says that uh an applicant can exceed the equivalency Factor um based on an analysis of these criteria but in no case can it exceed the allowable intensity of the comprehensive plan the maximum intensity in the comprehensive plan for the slan use category is six units to the acre and an equivalency factor of three to the maximum equivalency factor that can be requested um I would also note that there's a second intensity standard in the mixed residential category and that is a townwide maximum amount of commercial land use that is allowed in the category in addition to the density limitation there's no there's been no competent substantial evidence that that number hasn't been exceeded or isn't being exceeded we don't know what it is um so for all of these reasons you know we're not here today to to focus on the height or the setbacks or these little you know these design aspects there's a foundational issue here in terms of their ability their their inability to request the additional intensity that's necessary to allow this development proposal to proceed that's necessary to allow this CPD amendment to proceed um this is what this is the these are the bones of the town's growth management and I think they're they're kind of being ignored um I I I'm a little bewildered to be honest um I've not seen a request in my 30 plus years come forward that didn't even have that basic uh Foundation to rest on uh as far as permitted entitlement under the governing comprehensive plan and the Land Development regulations thank you we ask questions yes please so let me let me understand the argument you're making about the equivalency factor I heard three things it wasn't analyzed by staff they don't have the right to ask for it and we don't have the authority to approve it an exception to that can you go through those three for me make sure I understand what your testimony is first of all um I didn't see it in the staff report didn't see that it was a request it was not analyzed it was not presented as a request I believe the applicant said it was part of deviation number five but that just talks about height that's right okay so the request wasn't made properly um I would tell you that it's not okay for them that it's not uh it's not appropriate for them to make it on the floor that's what applications are for that's what the staff review process is for um uh so I think that was a last minute add-on so that's a defect right there okay number two um they are not entitled to be granted a deviation to give them 241 units or 239 units simply because it exceeds the maximum intensity allowed in the comprehensive plan the CPD uh plan developments are all subject to the maximum intensity limits in the comprehensive plan that's that is the back stop is the comprehensive plan um um we'll come back to questions for this unless Sarah did you want to make a comment it is uh staff's interpretation that intensity in the Land Development code actually refers to F correct uh density is the dwelling units and the equivalency Factor intensity is the floor area ratio that's how we look at that so Sarah while you're standing there though but what about the official request for this deviation of the equivalency Factor um that uh the official request for the equivalency yes that is relatively new it did come to us um after the agenda was uh it was new time yes um did you I knew that the applicant had sent out oh yes they did but it was okay yeah so it it was intended to go out however it was not in the agenda packet so that is correct had you received it I had received it although I had limited time to do uh the review that ID hoped for just because several things changed last week we talked you know in the last couple months about establish deadlines did it come in after the deadline yes um it it came in after they received the staff report um they had concerns regarding the uh staff recommendation of denial um they went back through and relooked at some things they also recognized that um some of the documents they had submitted apparently didn't get uploaded uh into our portal so I hadn't removed the request to remove the garage from the floor area ra so it it's difficult for us to get these things last minute y especially if we've already reviewed the packet that was submitted yes and it happened on both two of the petitions today yes yeah well I would suggest it's more difficult for staff than it is yes it is it is well it's both but but but even more importantly we asked for this process to be secured so that you all and we would have proper time and proper whatever to to review these cases so um in order to uphold the effort that the staff has made on on our behalf yours and and everybody else's uh it seems I I don't know what we do with that yet but you know what we're going to move on to public comment we'll come back to this topic yes go ahead go right ahead one one followup to Anita's point so back to equivalency for a second I to make sure we're all very clear about how we're processing this um it's your representation or you can make it differently if I'm not stating it right that the way the intervenor has described what we should be looking at focusing on and therefore have no latitude to approve or deviate from is a different approach than you take on how you analyze the request and therefore the way you see it we do have authority by which to app on whether or not we want to approve that additional deviation on equivalency that correct yes it is staff's opinion that intensity refers to floor area ratio thank you very much thank you Sarah thank you thank you okay okay I'm going to open this to public comment so who'd like to be first two signed up oh you have two people signed up well we've already got somebody on their feet you got it Cassy were you sworn in to begin with I wasn't yes I was okay good morning everyone cash is up in Born raised Fort Myers Beach um I have an issue with the pink shell project uh I understand the applicant said that the units that were taken out in the o -07 are not part of this my problem is is that you had 47 units moved to the beach side from 40 from 45 now they know they don't have a leg to stand on because they gave away that density that's not what they're talking about they bought a baby lot that's not even a half an acre and they want to now recoup that density that they gave up to build their big hotel so in the long story short they come in make an agreement and need s c you were on Council during this time and IED it uh they gave up that density on the Bayside to make their Resort they got their Resort now unfortunately Ian comes through and now they buy a little baby lot and want to get a height variance and an increase in density um which again I just don't even see where that comes from uh you had a single family home there you want to build a duplex congratulations not shouldn't be an issue building a 40 unit hotel which is basically recouping the deviations that you lost for your beach front I don't agree with it thank you very much thank you Hy um Amy will you call the two names yep I have Kathy Schultz and after Kathy is Richard outer slice Kathy okay good morning Kathy um I'm Kathy Schultz pull the mic down to you Kathy schults um 394 Estero and my parents actually own at Vacation Villas um on January 10th 2000 the fort Meers Beach Town Council held a hearing to consider a variance made by Pink Shell to amend its Bayside CPD to remove 47 units and to add these units to a 45 unit building on the Gulf side increasing the height of the building from six stories over parking to Nine Stories over Recreation and Lobby it's really seven and 11 stories attorney Beverly Grady spoke on behalf of boyin hotel properties in pinkshell the minutes for her presentation read as follows applicants are here today to present to us an amended plan which they believe is creative and positive and better for the town the public and for pink in Shell it has received a positive staff recommendation unanimous approval from the LPA and in our packets are support from members of the public on the Bayside 47 units have been eliminated on The Gulfside plan 30 ft in height has been added to the approved 45 unit six-story structure it would now with this approval contain 92 units the proposed plan for the Bayside will open the bay vist to the traveling public on the North End we will have 300 ft of passive use divided between each end of the property we will see the Green Space we will see the Landscaping in addition to the 300 ft divided between the two ends we'll see there has been created a valet parking opportunity that's reduced the amount of land normally dedicated to parking also being created as a pedestrian interpretive walkway that meanders through the south end of the property along Ong the bay over the dock and then meanders back to Aero Boulevard there will be a sidewalk provided along Aero Boulevard on the Bayside there will be Landscaping along both sides of a stero Boulevard extensive Landscaping will buffer the parking lot the plan proposes 7500 plants there will be Beach vegetative plantings the Town Council approved this plan with a vote of 3 to one pink shell should be held to their past commitments not offered the opportunity to make new promises to break thank you Kathy who's our next speaker Amy uh Richard outer slice good morning good morning Richard outer SLI uh I'm family long family oriented owners in for Vacation Villas original we've been personally and my wife Carol have been owners since 1994 I have served on the board of directors I've been the president of the association and I'm quite intimately familiar with what has gone on and somewhat familiar with what is currently going on I have real concerns about allowing deviations that create a huge building where one has never been planned or should have been allowed to be put uh there's nice pictures but you really do not get an idea of the scale until you try to visualize it actually on the lot it takes up the entire lot and it's going to eliminate any view that we have enjoyed for 50 years of the bay the setbacks should not be allowed because all it does is expand the size of that building but there's a bigger issue I heard a faint reference to least parking lots for Vacation Villas on pink shell property well they're not least they are officially deed EAS for the five parking places and essentially they prevent I don't have copies but essentially they overlap the yellow little spot 20% of the surface area of the lot now what I can't understand is when the application was made they did not identify the easement because the easement it requires B shell Vacation Villas and the town to agree on moving the easement before anything else can happen so why it was not included I don't know know it has been said that Resort and our board have been in discussions over it they have not been able to come to an agreement for a large number of reasons we would like to have a solution but saying you have eight parking places in a locked area that is significantly away from the building isn't a reason particularly if you have constant changes in people parking because it's a most of the building is now rented so that creates real issues so we don't have yet a solution but I have one recommendation that might be agreeable to all people and that is simply if pink shell Resorts vacation Bill's board and the town could get together and create a document to get an easement on County land in boded park directly adjacent to Vacation Villas okay we could put Park we could move that parking lot it would open up the lot in question now I would think that'd be an reasonable approach we'll see thank you sir for your comments I appreciate them uh is there anybody else who'd like to speak on this case [Music] Patrick good morning uh for the record my name is Patrick vaness I'm a certified planner with the neighborhood company um I wasn't planning on speaking uh about this case uh I'm also a resident and uh I feel compelled to address the issue from um the other planner that spoke against the project um I've looked at the policy previously I just double checked it right now as we were speaking uh in my opinion um the limitations to density uh the equivalency ratio of the 1 to three applies to straight zoning by right zoning uh you have to look at the entire context and the other discussions within the comp plan in the discussion of density there is a section that talks about the ability to exceed that equivalency ratio through a plan development all also when you look at the Land Development code we have a table that ranges from 1 to three again someone that has zoning that is not changing their zoning and want to do it by right they can apply those ratios that range from one to three the maximum on that table is three well when you go to the footnotes of that table it says that under exceptional circumstances and through the PD process you can ask to exceed that uh equivalency ratio so in my opinion um I think they have every right to ask for it uh I think that in our case also we have the right to ask for it and also we've got precedent of other projects and there's been an interpretation with these previous projects that have gotten greater equivalency ratios that kind of set the record so all these things have to be taken into consideration and while the language in the compant could be a little clear and that's that might be a cleanup that we do do when we update our comp plan that we make it crystal clear but the body of evidence in my opinion points to the right to ask for a greater equivalency ratio thank you can I just add on the record I think Mr vaness has already been considered by the LPA as an expert in land use planning and for speech thank you is anyone else here would like to speak on the pink shell case anybody okay we're going to close uh the public comment and uh Sarah you want to take a break at this point yes um Jim has to what time do you have to leave noon Jim has to leave at noon so let's just take a 10-minute break okay no stress no stress Sarah e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e thank you all um unfortunately we're going to lose Jim here momentarily so um uh Sarah Amy want to get us up to date hello again for the record Amy too bretzel um for our discussion with Sarah and with the applicant um we for are you refering for coming back to you guys in December um I don't know about that well my dear I don't I get I I can't tell you that because I mean right now our meeting is scheduled for the 10th sorry Sarah do you know something we don't know yes that that that was coming up at the uh Community uh development items Community Development items at a request to have an additional meeting on December 3rd uh due to the uh large number of large applications that are in uh for next month okay uh let me just ask so the applicant is going to request a a continuation uh for a date certain of the third is that correct Amy and uh and then the question really to proceed that will be is the LPA going to be willing to meet on the third I don't have a problem with it how about you Jim I can certainly make it work okay you Jane no problem already in my calendar okay hey Don can you be here in person on the third I won't be on the third I will be on the 10th okay well you know one out of two isn't bad all right so okay Madam chair since you have accorded um intervenor status has any has the intervenor been asked of as as far as their availability on the third Mr DT can you be available on the 3 of December thank you Richard D we're we're checking our schedule right now I believe I will be and Jeff will be too so yeah much Wonder thank you for being so accommodating we appreciate that appreciate it thank 9: a.m. for cl yes 9: am 9: am Sarah you're good with 9:00 am sure uh Sarah I mean Nancy procedurally we've had the public comment uh we've done everything so at this point someone could make a motion for continuing so we've got we've got a motion for continuance to a date certain 9:00 a.m. on December 3rd uh is there all those in favor say I I thank you very much and thank you folks we'll see you again on the 3D of December okay um we'll move on the next case the next case is the Neptune in CPD 230 no 2310 and 23 3 62320 Estero Boulevard this is ordinance 24xx an ordinance of the town of Fort Meyers Beach Florida approv you know what I'm just going to wait until folks clear out here so our our video and and audio will be clear [Music] everybody else is so good luck okay good luck just let the record reflect that um Jim Bowen is leaving bye Jim good luck yeah with the dentist want to comments I actually was had written up before we did the continu in pink shells got it okay so we'll continue here um this is an ordinance at the town of Fort Meers Beach Florida approving approving with conditions or denying the commercial plan development CPD Zoning for the property located at 2310 Estero Boulevard and 2316 2320 Estero Boulevard generally identified as strap numbers 19 4624 w343 0 n 00001 1946 24 W3 04300 CE and 94624 w3011 a and 000010 for Meer speech providing for other clarifications is necessary providing for conflicts of law scrier errors severability and providing for an effective date okay is there any expart communication on the Neptune in uh Dawn do you have any I spoke with the neighborhood company on this a couple times and the owners way back okay how about you John uh the same and Jane I met with the mons how about you Jim I'm the same as Don met with them once and had follow-up conversations um one additional point I also have made a referral to them of a potential general contractor and looking for options on that I haven't had any conversations subsequent to making that referral so okay nothing else um I have had uh conversations with um with Pat vaness the neighborhood company and I have also done a video uh conference with um with the property owner um back for a while but anyhow all right thank you very much um this so can I ask um does anybody Mr dunp yes ma DLP um so your referral there was no there's no exchange of money there's no special benefit coming to you as a result of that referral that is absolutely correct all right thank you just putting it on the record I am ma'am okay thank you Nancy oh I would like to disclose one other thing I don't know that it's relevant but uh for the last two years I've been living on delmare street so I'm extremely uh familiar with the property in uh in the area okay well if that has to be disclosed I live on fair weather across the street so and I'm on EIT but it probably is not close so thank you for those disclosures because that goes to your um knowledge of the area um and it would be somewhat the equivalent of a site visit um so it's good to go ahead and disclose that of record so thank you well I will correct mine because I have walked on the property several times since even okay since it's directly across okay Sarah good morning Sarah propes with Community Development good morning Sarah uh the neighborhood company on behalf of chg Neptune Acquisitions LLC has applied for a CPD to reconstruct the Neptune Inn located at 2310 and 2316 2320 a stero Boulevard um the site previously had 71 lodging units and accessory Resort uses um it the applicant is proposing um a new resort development with 148 lodging units and Resort accessory units uh with a floor area ratio of 1.48 um this application includes several deviations one for connection separation um for driveway ENT or for entrances one for uh Landscaping in the parking area that's underneath the building uh they they're proposing a uh different landscape betterment plan one for uh to decrease the number of parking uh spaces that are required they have provided a um traffic impact statement um and an evaluation from a traffic engineer uh they're asking for um to not include the floor area ratio or the garage area the parking area in the floor area ratio calculation um they are proposing additional height above the allowed 30 feet in the CR zoning district for a a maximum height of um it's actually increased a bit and the applicant will explain uh that here shortly but they are asking for a deviation for height and the number of stories uh they're asking for a maximum of six stories um four stories over two levels of parking um and that'll explain the additional height change uh and then also they're asking to allow a deviation to for the equivalency Factor um so they were at um 71 units before they're asking for 148 Resort Hotel units um this is a 6.2 equivalency factor and also they are asking for uh a floor area ratio of 1.5 from 1.2 in the CR zoning District uh they're allowed and and that's what they have to ask for the deviation from they're allowed up to 1.2 however they are in the boulevard future land use district and the boulevard allows an increase up to 1.5 through the CPD process um and I will let the applicant explain the rest of their project do you have any questions for me no not yet okay questions good Don question for Sarah yet no nothing yet thank you okay thank you good morning morning good afternoon now I think yes by two minutes thank you madam chair good afternoon LPA members Noble Davies with the law firm of Davies Duke on behalf of the applicant which is chg Neptune Acquisitions LLC no have we qualified you before as an expert yes I believe so we did okay okay the full project team is here today uh Adam Valente is our client representative panas and Ken Gander are here from the neighborhood company our architect Chris Myers is here Ted trsh is our transportation in and J.R Evans is our civil engineer this is a rezone request to commercial plan development CPD from commercial Resort CR it is not a comprehensive plan Amendment and the resort use is a permitted use by right today under the CR zoning our client purchased the property in September of 2021 so they owned and operated it for approximately a year before Ian they did suffer catastrophic damage during Ian and then since then diligently followed your reone process including the required pre-application meeting community outreach meeting and worked closely with your town staff on the application for reone as you are aware following today's hearing there will be two readings in front of your Town Council and with that if I may I'm going to turn it over directly to my client representative Adam Valente I will remain available for your questions at the conclusion of applicant's presentation thank you sir thank you madam chair good afternoon Adam Valente good afternoon thank you for having me uh I just wanted to briefly give a little bit of uh our organization a little bit of really why we purchas the Neptune um the thoughts we had at the time and it I think it's relevant and leads into uh what we've proposed and what's in front of you today so um our company uh Continental Hospitality Group is based in Columbus Ohio um our business is to find what we consider to be uh special um hotel properties we do look around the country um we we though pass and say no to most and it's because our criteria is what are the we're all trying to find out what are what are the properties that we think have long-term value and stewardship uh over the long run because our our ownership team is we're not a private Equity Fund um we're not a a real estate investment trust or you know more the the the big institutional owners that perhaps see property as something to trade in and out of um ours is a family-owned company investing within for a number of families so just by way a little bit of background um when we when we got wind to the Neptune and and evaluated it of course it was before the hurricane if we had a crystal ball not sure I'd be in front of you here today but we don't have a crystal ball um what we saw is a property that was built in the 1960s and over time has really been beloved I mean we hadn't seen a lot of this before I've been in the hotel business since I was 16 and on the investment side and and and buying and and developing hotel properties for 20 plus years and um as we were in our evaluation of this property never really seen as much um fervor and and love for a property from guests hear about it a lot you don't always see it um postcards and letters and things like that and it was a very interesting and I think a telling reality that this is a hotel that's been enjoyed for actually a few Generations now I guess if we look at 60 plus years in fact uh hopefully yall get a little humor out of this we had one guest who would come every year um for extended period uh and and we had his own favorite mattress in the back that when he would come in we'd have to uh install his mattress and so the different lens from which we we evaluate and sawell this property so our plan at the time was never development it was never Redevelopment it was simply to reinvest in the property Steward the property to remain a high quality uh property within what it was 71 Keys really catering to families quiet you know relaxing atmosphere um in fact there was no food and beverage on site at all which was interesting um we saw that as an opportunity so while we we thought we'd spend a little bit in the rooms and just refresh and again maintain the property the one thing we wanted to be able to do um was to get a a tiki bar and a little Grill so we could we could you know check that off the list of things that we offered but um then Ian and and really uh obviously that that forced us to reevaluate that whole that whole equation and all the while I think what you'll see today is um the the singular approach we've taken is how how do we rebuild not develop I don't think um how do we rebuild in a way that allows us to have a financially uh viable project um and our mind's not by any means trying to propose something above and beyond to we we certainly see it as let's let's put forward the really minimum from a feasibility standpoint but of a very high quality nature something that we're proud of something we hope you all are proud of when you look at it you drive and walk by it every day um for many many many many years uh and and part of that thought process and and the team will will obviously get into here is is um of course The Balancing Act of of what does a resort uh provide not just to us the owners of course the to the community and and the essence of that as far as I'm concerned is um we use Timeless U not often but our approach here can we how do we provide a Timeless um look and feel of a property uh amenities and and a relationship not just to the guest but to the team member and the community where we want this to be highly desirable to everybody involved to us if we can't deliver that it's not going to go anywhere so that's what we've we've really poured into this um it is not an inexpensive project we did not say what can we do for you know the lowest dollar um by by no stretch of the imagination and and so um want to give a little bit of the the context there um and and part of our reality just doesn't this is not I don't think a fact that is a important consideration of your alls but of ours is easily a $15 million insurance hole that we had to fill so um that's just the reality of we purchased it before the hurricane uh the hurricane did what the hurricane did constru production costs and the reality of of borrowing costs and everything the way they are and the way they're going to be for the foreseeable future um from from every sign on our side is you know we have that reality too um and and so I think with that um importantly too listening to the feedback the community uh the neighborhood company uh and and our team we we've really lean into now for the better part of two years uh it seems a little bit like yesterday but um we're really hopeful that uh that we've really struck that balance um so with that I think I think I'm done but look forward to the conversation and certainly questions as we go Adam before you leave let's deal with um the one that's obvious and resoning in the street why is the building still there building's still there um for really for I think a few reasons but principally at the end of the day we have a lender in place um that lender has expressed us concern about us demolishing the building prior to knowing what the future is for the building uh not an uncommon Behavior with lenders whose collateral is uh any improvements on the property with which they lent now I appreciate you asking because the good news is we think by Thanksgiving we will have their consent to be able to demolish the building so our goal now is uh we we're working on getting uh proposals we've got one we need more than one but um I think by we we we anticipate by q1 having the project demolished so I see that happening a little early to fully commit but um we think we'll have that consent and approval from our lender before Thanksgiving that would enable us to really get that building knocked down and cleared Jim um is that valid it is on a couple fronts you've heard of chain of custody in legal cases there's also a chain of collateral and without permission from the lean holders to demolish that building it the loan will be doing payable causing a a covenant violation maintaining collateral and there's not an automatic leap for the new facility to automatically get access to that you have to go through an entirely different process to get that I can see where they're doing it they're probably leveraging the fact that that same lender would be involved perhaps in the New Deal therefore that collateral transition would be easier but it's not unusual it's very difficult to do and if you're not from here because I know the banks up in Ohio they're going to be very very concerned about having a piece of land where they used to have a building Adam could I just elaborate a little bit on um what Mr Dunlap has asked you please um your property is probably the single most complained about property on Fort Meers Beach and it isn't that the building's standing there it's that it's in Ruins it's it I mean you know this is certainly not part of what um will be considered in uh the analysis of your zoning case but from a Public's point of you every time somebody Drives By that property and sees it in the it's not the building it's the property in the condition that it's in it's been rather insulting so I'm just I'm expressing that to you because I feel pretty sure you're going to hear it from someone today and if you the person and it is a loud cry that we have heard over and over and over again and it's been expressed so I just want you to know that okay well I appreciate you sharing that thank you and we're very hopeful that we can so are we get rid of that permanently so are we all right thank you thank you very much Patrick good afternoon um for the record um my name is Patrick vaness I'm a certified planner with the neighborhood company uh I am also a 20-year for Maris Beach resident and uh I've had the pleasure to serve Just Like You on the LPA for several years uh and uh I certainly uh understand and can feel the challenges that you have to go through with all these petitions um I've got some um paper copies of the presentation I think that might be um helpful for you guys to follow along thanks pet um so usually this is the point where I would tell you that it's a a pleasure to be here and I'm excited to present uh this great project uh the Neptune Resort and a from that well to be honest with you I come I come before you today very tired I tired my whole entire family is tired my neighbors are tired um we we've all been bruised and battered by these last two storms yes I I think for a lot of people these last two storms have been the straw that broke the camels back and UNT Ely we're seeing some of our friends and neighbors leave the island they're not coming back that's right so I think that that that's some of the stuff I want to discuss today these are things that we have to to consider it's got to be part of the discussions it's got to be part of our analysis and evaluation of projects moving forward in what way the context of where we are what we need to do how we rebuild you know we're two years into this and we got hit all over again okay so there there there's this idea of we we need to be expedient we need to get things going move things along so so I think I think the storms have really tested our resolve uh I for one I can tell you that look my resolve is strong I'm not giving up on this island we we could have asked for the moon on this property we could have asked for way more and we always went in to that initial discussion with the owners um explain what we understood what I understood of this island what I understood the concerns to be and the sensitive issues and they acknowledged that from the very beginning and they said yes we are not going to ask for what we could ask for we're going to ask for what we need what makes our project viable and financially feasible um so from that standpoint I'll forward my slide here and catch up a little bit bet okay um one of the very important things for the very beginning is they they've always catered to families and they've always catered to to Extended Stays and they've builted uh that concept to the new project um also it was very important for the very beginning to look at what benefits could be provided um I will go into the benefits and the financial uh impacts um at the end of the presentation uh Ken and Chris the our architect are going to walk you through the details um but but what's what's really interesting without going to those details what I'm seeing with all these different hearings is um we we are going to have a community that is working in a partnership with the hotels it seems like every hotel that is coming before you is willing to be inclusive of the residents and if you think about most Resort towns or destination towns typically there's a wall and and and there's this clear separation between the residents and and the hotels and the guest and it's private and it's restricted and and I think the direction we're going is a a true collaboration where there's going to be some recognition that we have to work with with with the locals and we want to give access to the locals and they will be great ambassadors for our business um so some of the other issues that uh were important to this project is this uh quality um design quality development this idea that just like many of us in rebuilding our homes we're taking this opportunity to make the the homes better obviously we have to make him stronger taller but also taking that opportunity to maybe um having some some some little uh luxuries that we didn't have before with our tiny little Cottages so I I think they're doing the same they're looking at the market the consumer today expects more amenities expects higher ceilings uh and and a different quality and they' built that in um and ultim l in the end uh we want to talk about financial feasibility because especially in light of what we've been through um and kind of the precarious position we're in uh dealing with regular storms now seems like um we have to make sure that we are resilient not just from an individual building standpoint but as a community and obviously if we start having that dialogue and addressing those issues um there are significant costs associated with that so I think we need to be strong financially as a community and we need to have a good tax base in order to afford these needs that we're going to have to develop a townwide resiliency program um so I I think I think we can all agree that the key points that we're going to discuss today the key issues are going to be height and density um so at least from standpoint of height I've been listening to all the different meetings that the lpa's had council's had it seems that we've had a bit of a shift in in attitude and I'm not saying this is across the board and everybody necessarily agrees but I think the the way we looked at height previously and the importance we assigned to it might be changing a little bit and I think there's been a recognition that with um with allowing some height in the right places and with the right design you can create your corridors you can create some other benefits on site so I think at least from a height issue with some of the other cases we've had there seems to be an openness to allow that to happen and there's been um discussion from some of the different members that maybe not as much of a concern as it used to be um so the other big issue is density and what I'm hoping what I'm asking you is to keep an open mind about density uh because just like height I think the allowance for greater density is needed to make these projects a reality it's needed to expedite our Redevelopment and it's also needed to make sure our businesses are successful and that they're resilient in the long term and they build the right way that they that and when I talk about resiliency it's not just you know physic resiliency it's it's it's being strong being resilient to basically face all the challenges that the the hotels have to face um so please keep that in mind some other key points that I'd like you to to to keep in mind as we we talk about this is um this idea of public benefit we've listened to your discussions we've listened to council's discussion I completely agree that a lot of these benefits are subjective and the way weight that one person gives to certain benefit may not be the weight that the other person gives to it I get that so our intent is not to debate the weight of all these benefits the way we see it is we have presented a basket of benefits and those include the public benefits that you guys have talked about the special benefits it talks about amenities and also the public impact uh included as part of this project in my mind those create a basket of benefits and the way I see it is your job is to weigh that basket of benefits and to to evaluate if it's commensurate with the ask we certainly believe so we think that the benefits that we provide justify the ask and in this case we're asking for some added density and some additional height but again I think we've uh kept it reasonable and kept it to the minimum needed to make this a successful project some other things to keep in mind um the the property owners are existing owners these are not speculators that came in after the fact uh these are not people that have to justify a purchase that occurred afterwards as mentioned they bought this property a year to the day before Ian it was a great asset for them uh it was a great Hotel but they have to face realities and they have to rebuild and they have to find Solutions so there is a rational Nexus very clear reason why you know we had an Ian that destroyed their property and why they're before you today asking for more density also please keep in mind that hotel owners and and and hotel Builders face way more risk than the average developer okay I I think we all understand we've had those discussions that you know on top of really bad storms including you know five flooding events since Ian uh they've had to face Co they've had to face red tide they've had to face shortage of uh of of of employees they they've had to face all those challenges so when we try to keep them in a box and not allow for that additional density we're really squeezing them and we're we're making that risk even greater we want in my mind we want our businesses to be successful and if they're offering a product and and betting on us betting on us as a community and taking that risk and they're telling us we need a little leeway here we need a little more density to make sure that we are viable in the long term I think we have to listen to that uh also you've heard Seagate when you compare a hotel Builder versus a residential condo Builder risks are very different as Matt explained they go to pre-sales when they've had they have enough pre-sales they feel confident we'll get get our loan we'll start start building we can build multiple buildings also so we minimize our risk do it over time when these guys decide to put the shove on the ground they're all in 100% in and they have to deliver that hotel a quality hotel and they have to deliver quickly because the interest clock is ticking and the day they open that hotel they will be judged automatically on the quality of the resort and the quality of service there so they're all in these guys were taking a big bet um the the other thing that I'd like you to keep in mind is is this issue of the recent storms and and the need to really have a resiliency discussion uh Town one um we need to start looking at Solutions comprehensive Solutions and I'm not sure I'm I'm not an engineer but there are people that know this stuff about how you you strengthen the burm you know do you do you look at seaw walls bulkheads do we underground utilities do we ensure that we seed our burm immediately so it doesn't get washed away I'm I'm not sure I think it's going to be a combination of solutions like this but what I am sure about is all those Solutions are going to be very expensive and and I think the handouts from FEMA are gone okay they have multiple communities that they're dealing with right now that are in Greater need than we are and you know just natural process they start forgetting about us so we're going to have to take care of ourselves we're going to have to have a good strong ta B tax base to be able to address those infrastructure improvements um also there's there's a lot of discussion about existing infrastructure can it take more development can we can we allow more development on this island so I'd like to address this because when it comes to Water and Sewer okay there has been no credible substantial evidence that we cannot meet that we don't we have capacity problems and cannot meet the demand to the contrary every time the utilities and staff has been asked if we have sufficient capacity the answer has been a resounding yes so until someone can prove otherwise I think that's a that's what we've heard that's the best available information the other big issue that comes about when we talk about uh our infrastructure is traffic okay granted I've lived here for 20 years I I know about the traffic issue okay but I I I won't go into technical details I'll just give you my experience and anecdotal evidence so 20 years and we've had periods where number of units on the sound have gone up and down and that traffic in season has been a constant but we also have to realize it is a short window as part of the year and even during season during the day we all know that there are es and flows midafternoon at 2:00 I can get off the island relatively easy early morning and late afternoon whole different story um we also have evidence that and I was talking to Jackie Jackie's got an article at the chamber dating back to 1930s where it explains that it's taken an hour to get off the on the North End so this has been an issue that we've had to deal with throughout the years but keep in mind that in the 1930s the number of units on this island were very different so what I want you guys to keep in mind is we have not demonstrated a onetoone correlation there is no direct correlation between units on this island and the congestion that we experience of course when you have new development it does cause trips I'm not saying that but what I'm saying is we have not proven a onetoone correlation meaning that for every Hotel unit that you put on on this beach you're going to have a marked difference in traffic and the way I can demonstrate this is if you look at the last year guys most of the units most of the hotel units I think we were 60 % down only 40% were online the residential units I don't know what your estimate is but I'm using an estimate of maybe 50% of the residential units were online and we still have traffic and we had crazy traffic last year okay so do you understand what I mean there is no direct correlation between units and traffic slowing everybody down so so so the idea is we know we know that the day trips are a lot more significant to our traffic than than the res itial trips and the and the density that we have on this island also some people say well well that was the construction traffic well you know what's funny guys I was here all summer I don't think construction slowed down during the summer I hadn't I didn't deal with traffic all summer so so we have to acknowledge that the brunt of our traffic issue is from day Trippers not for the for the number of units that are built on this island so that's where I'm asking you to keep that in mind and and to maybe have an open mind as to does it make sense to allow more density to create viable projects uh one last thing and I had a a conversation with Anita um last week and I've heard the same thing from from many folks and what Anita heard was uh if we allow these projects to come in um for Mar spee will not be recognizable in 10 years and some of you may know before I I moved to this area first place I lived in Florida was in Key West and uh I was there for for about 5 years with my wife we loved it there but when we lived in Q There was always some Old-Timers that used to say uh Qs is changing it used to be different and uh we can't we can't allow any of this development to happen and what's funny is Qs to me was great that's what I understood when I lived there there was a certain essence or vibe that I was looking for and I experienced that and five years later when we left we had some new friends that had come in and they had moved to Key West for the same reasons we live there they like that Vibe they like like that experience and their experience five years later was was a great experience for them things may have changed slightly but the essence and the character of Key West was still the same and what's funny is we left for once we left Key West we didn't go back for 15 to 20 years I can't remember I think it it was more like 17 years we didn't return and we finally went back and we spent the weekend there and yes there were some changes more hotels more more cruise ships but the essence of Key West and the character of Key West has not changed it's still there so what I like to say is that Fort Meers Beach we're a bunch of pirates and what I mean by that is is a lot of us are a little non-conformists maybe a little irreverent and we tend to like to have fun and that's why we choose to be here uh and we can have bigger homes maybe a few uh larger Resorts but we know what those are we we we can we already know what's going to happen um but what I feel strongly about is in 10 years from now that Essence and that feeling that we have on Fort Myers Beach will still be good so uh with that said I will turn things over to Ken and I'll be back at the end of the presentation we'll talk about benefits we'll talk about economic impacts thanks I love the pirate story it's true a 3D printer small see how small [Laughter] [Music] is thanks Chris well uh I don't know how you follow that up but uh I certainly appreciate uh Patrick's perspective and now I get the privilege of kind of giving you guys is the building the record and the kind of facts and our professional opinion but uh good afternoon Madam chair nice to see you yeah and I'm not Fred right no yeah no because Fred was here earlier that's right so I couldn't resist um we know how often I tell that story because I name somebody something and it's like it just f t yeah exactly um but for the record Ken Gander with the neighborhood company certified planner partner with uh Patrick vaness um so I'm just going to start and pardon me I'm kind of getting over a little something and uh just bear with me um do you want some water you have I've got some y thank you uh just to start out we have our subject property uh the three Parcels uh that uh Anita went through with all the strap numbers uh but we do have uh factually 24 underlining platted Lots um uh that will be applicable to uh some discussion down the road uh 2.46 Acres our future land use map category is the boulevard uh which allows for these type of commercial and the residential mixed type developments uh the existing zoning as stated previously is the commercial Resort uh as Sarah and acknowledge that this use is a permitted by right use within that zoning District unfortunately we all are aware and we are very familiar that this is a significantly damaged and uh has been sitting as a vacant motor in uh property our surrounding uses vary from uh we obviously have uh rights of way vacant and destroyed commercial properties but some over time uh are starting to be rebuilt uh and the residential uh obviously the Gulf of Mexico and uh again just a variety of commercial and residential properties surrounding us again uh our request specifically is uh going from the commercial Resort zoning District to the CPD uh specifically 148 unit Resort hotel with Restaurant and Tiki Bar that we have identified as being open accessible by the public uh some accessory uh internal retail for the guests and Rec recreational uses um we feel we're consistent with the comp plan and Land Development code which allows us to seek this resoning to the CPD and as we've been found laying the foundation for this uh enabling us to have a better stronger and uh improved resilient development uh that is Heering to the plan development process that in to time uh and for a long time will be beneficial to the town and the residents the subject site this is aerial photo I think we're all excuse me uh familiar with the location uh it's just actually just right down the road a little bit uh and just east of uh Diamond Head um across from where I was before you with the Sandy Bottoms so just right across the street from that future uh commercial use just drilling down a little bit more on the location the site design and just aspects of compatibility this is in as the city has identified the heart of the island which is that mix of uses serving our visitors and a residence uh it's that transitional Zone from the downtown part where you have that more energetic uh festive atmosphere and then you have a little farther down to the east that quier Center so we're are that in between and this type of uh the project that we're working on through this resoning kind of complements that that family oriented maintaining that Legacy there um obviously it's along a sto Boulevard with a connectivity that people can easily walk uh guests here or guests uh coming to the resort to and from Time Square in proximity to other Resorts up and down a stero Boulevard and other commercial neighborhood businesses restaurant and actually uh the beach we've been working on this for two years uh over two years as uh Adam mentioned and it's been a very careful and what we consider a methodical uh review of the code and getting Community input for that complimentary and compatibility that we are seeking as part of this area of the heart of the island but Is it feasible under these new Regulatory and these resilient and economic factors so those are things that we have been working on and I think time tells that we're bringing you something that uh will be beneficial but this Redevelopment enables us uh to reduce and eliminate uh some non-conformities that existed on the property uh through the setbacks uh the actual building now will be uh landward of the 78 cccl uh the setbacks on the sides have been increased uh they were non-conform building was basically built along the property lines that enables us to do some buffering to provide those view corridors and then that enhanced landscaping and uh they we consider a very exceptional architectural design uh through our community uh meetings and input we've really received favorable feedback on that aspect of it and it's been done through being an appropriate uh and consistent uh relationship with the high height and scale surrounding the property and again that design enables us to uh provide for these view corridors uh from the public realm and The Pedestrian amenities that we want to uh contribute uh to the town's effort of uh making sure those that are walking along a sterl Boulevard have a fairly comfortable place that either walking by and I'll go into a little bit more details of what those little elements can be and then just this prior family oriented Hotel this will in our opinion continue with that Legacy me so this is our Master concept plan I know it's may be a little small for everyone to see but I just want to hit on some key factors of what we're looking at as you can see the darker hatched uh p of the mash con plan that's the primary structure footprint to the South there the lighter shaded is the meni deck uh the pool and uh the Tiki Bar would be on the western side of that uh area as proposed uh we have two uh access points off of a stero Boulevard we are seeking a deviation to ensure that we can have this I'll go into more detail on those they are specifically going to be designed specifically for C turning movements to ensure the best safety uh and maneuverability and based on the lane uh uh Lane orientation within a stero Boulevard we have the setbacks 20 feet on the west side and 25 ft on the east side um let's see what else do we have oh the part of our uh component of and contributing to a public benefit is on the western side along delmare are 16 parking spaces those will be through the appropriate uh methods process dedicated to the town strictly for public use those aren't not included in our parking calculations there's uh if you this the little laser pointer won't work but there's three little stars along a stero Boulevard uh basically at every uh pedestrian connection Point those are our what we are considering The Pedestrian amenity zones so those would be improved with enhanced Landscaping seating lighting trash cans this for people gives them opportunities to stop and rest and come and go uh through the project we just think it's an element that contributes to that uh the public realm this next uh slide is the ground level uh parking plan for our project and what this identifies with in and the bolded line is the footprint of the of the structure uh there is an area designated for the bicycle rental uh facility and also as part of our effort of providing different modes of transportation uh six golf cart parking spaces that are going to be specifically dedicated those are U you can see it's in the Northwest portion of underneath the building um you can also see uh the what we've identified again are the two main access points off of the stero Boulevard there is an egress point on the west side that takes you uh individuals out of the building on to delmare so that they can have full uh managed turning movements through the stop sign along delmare Avenue so with that I am going to have um we're GNA have Chris Myers with the uh our architect walk us through some of the renderings and uh how we have established uh this building good afternoon afterno could I seek um expert status we'd love to do that this sounds great so let us know what your credentials are sir uh thank you I'm Chris Meyers uh AIA uh I'm the founding owner of Myers and Associates uh we're a 25-year-old architecture and interior design firm uh we're based in Columbus uh however we are opening an office in Southwest Florida soon we hear you have great weather um lot of building off opportunities I have uh uh two degrees from Ohio State University a bachelor's and a master's degree they either love you or they hate you um also have uh uh post-graduate work at the uh architectural Association in London and also at theun so I remember it uh fondly and uh when Adam first so I remember it uh fondly and uh when Adam first told me about the the project uh it brought back a lot of uh nice memories um one of the things that uh we talked about early on with Continental um was really the Mandate for the project was to uh preserve the essence and character of the Neptune now obviously it's not exactly like for like of what it is currently or what it was previously um but that character in that Essence is essentially what fort Meers Beach uh is all about and what we're going to share with you is some features in this architecture that we hope exemplifies that the other was this family focused approach now I know we're talking about density and exteriors but all the way down to the design of the guestrooms uh there's thoughtfulness when it comes to how do you establish a hotel project uh rooted around attracting uh families and you know historically um historically what has been sort of annual visits from the same families again and again that's the that's the pursuit once again we we started this process in uh a series of community and engagement uh meetings and we shared kind of presentations uh along the way but there were some fundamental uh principles we were really trying to bring to uh those Community groups to help understand like how do we make something that really fits the context how do we fit the roundings it's obviously bigger than what was there before but how can we use architecture and strong uh planning to be able to do something that fits that's something that feels like it's uh meant to be there so as mentioned we're a four-story building above a two level um parking area what that does is it allows us to be you know now currently compliant Coastal Construction lines setbacks property lines all of those things uh the current building really really didn't work well with any of those and so we have to get a little more compact to be able to uh meet all of that we also have to obviously meet new construction standards uh so another storm may come and if it does this building should uh hold up pretty well when we look at um aligning with the context I've I've been studying a lot of your other projects and really looking at some of the challenges that have been happening in any of these new developments um um and one of the key factors that really comes up is massing and scale and I wanted to touch on as we go through some of these views just some of the factors that we think are in the architectural design to sort of work well in creating scale massing and appropriateness uh for how these buildings are fitting into the context and hopefully you see there's some distinction with uh what we're producing here so this first image shows the uh rendered uh design of the property sitting on the uh current location uh fitting within the adjacent um scale and different um building Heights and massing surrounding us uh and although it is uh taller larger than um the next door neighbors what you see hopefully uh is that it Blends it Blends nicely because there's a couple uh factors that play into that um there's four key principles I think that this building is exemplifying when it comes to uh architecture as a way to mitigate the impact of height um by doing that one of the things that we focus on is the first is really the depth of the facade and what I mean by the depth is that we don't have a flat wall uh that is six stories tall I've noticed in a lot of the other development strategies this is a challenge because of maximizing uh that density and pushing building facades right to the limit of what's buildable by having these sort of ins and outs and variation on the facade including balconies recessed openings uh protrusions coming in or out effectively what you do is you change the perception of the facade to not feel as tall when you have a repetitive six s 10 12 story building they feel very overwhelming when they don't have that depth um the second is the degree of transparency um a hotel especially this one and what you're seeing is uh the Estero Boulevard um uh entry uh view this is our public uh elevator space it's our main lobby it's our event area uh but what you're going to see is just the activity of people the visibility within these buildings is a big part of how you can mitigate um that scale on an elevation is simply by the visibility of inside uh being pedestrian friendly and approachable is another uh is the second Point uh you have a beautiful walkable Street uh and what we're going to show you are some of our view corridors how we we we try to even enhance that walkability uh but when it comes to scale at a human level that's another way that we can mitigate height and size uh through a building design uh detail in the architecture is another thing um these are big buildings and the and the scale of any of these buildings come down to again that human level when it's approachable with the size of light fixtures and railings and window uh massing all of the components of a landscape design that really play into how do we bring visually that perception of scale down uh and the last is really what we call a varied roof line so we notice in a lot of the characteristic buildings that survive the storm uh these wonderful roof lines and profiles and roof details and slope and flat and combinations of variation so you can take a a building Dimensions that that's a couple hundred feet long and just simply this depth in the facade and variation in the roof line you change the scale and perception of these buildings so I encourage you when you're looking at you know the buildings coming before you that these factors really do play into uh how to uh perceive the elevations and the architecture that's being presented so again this is our front uh entry off of a stero um kened mentioned a couple of the traffic patterning and some of the parking uh spaces we have we do have a number parking spaces within the building uh that we think kind of neatly accommodate uh our needs uh but also uh disguise the parking in a way that uh it still feels very characteristic in the architecture if we go up into the air a little bit you're starting to see that view corridor that we're uh thinking is going to slow down your traffic thanks for that comment before um but this is our delmare uh Street View Corridor this is the area that has the the 16 par parking spaces uh which are added to the design as a feature for the community uh there's also um bike racks there's a extra wide pedestrian way it's landscaped I think there's even a a foot wash at the end to help uh folks not track sand through the building um this is also one of our walk routes to some of the um Public Access amenities within the hotel so at the end of that walk there's a stair which I'll show you in a minute that brings you up and there's an elevator also to bring you up to our uh restaurant space which overlooks the uh the golf that position is purposely put into that spot so we can draw people back uh into the building uh and give them access to that wonderful view so down on that uh delmare entry uh location this is showing those 16 spaces on the left hand side beautiful sunset great looking rendering uh further further up uh Aero now looking towards the other View Corridor so this is a situation that does not currently exist because the uh current Neptune was uh built out to its property l so we're we're right around just under 30 fet of Separation that we now create uh we had initially uh designed this as another pedestrian access point uh even access for uh emergency vehicles and all kinds of other activity and in those Community engagement meetings this came up as something that let's let's con concentrate The Pedestrian activity over on the delmare site because it's much wider uh but again working with the neighbors and recognizing some of their uh interest and concern this sort of led us to the treatment of how we wanted to handle uh the East View Corridor the building has balconies off of uh virtually every room um so again that helps with the the depth in the facade and some of the activity uh that you would see in the building uh the elevator uh brings you up to a second level which is called a jum Lobby uh in a hotel like this so our guest room level uh this is right at the check-in uh space so your first impression is looking back over uh an exterior Terrace uh the outdoor pools the beach and of course the gulf so as we go out over the sand uh we've had a couple variations uh in the configuration of the pool uh and some of the pool Terrace but we really believe that as much as there's a sensitivity to all of these architectural uh conditions on a stero Boulevard likewise there's other conditions on the beach side uh and in this case what we wanted to do was create the open courtyard the the the sort of U shape of the building uh facing the water because what it does is it opened up a lot more uh view potential for the guest rooms but it effectively changes the scale of the building as you're walking on the shore as you look back at the building because of the depth of that that Center space it changes the scale again to make it more appropriate to the other buildings surrounding Us in fact we also push the buildings back further uh so the residential units on either side opens up even more of a Coastal View for them uh you're seeing on the second level towards the left just under that greenish uh Tower that's that restaurant bar space uh that again has access off of delmare uh looking down onto the pool and of course stepping down to the sand uh right up over head of the pools you're seeing again a lot of that activity and that Dynamic um presence that the the guests can have uh on the um on the beach side uh the scale and proportion the roof lines the openings the transparency uh of the building to hopefully create a very welcoming uh facade we're going to get into uh a lot of the technical conditions and I think Ken is going to go through um some of the Heights and some of the requests that we have but certainly if there's any questions about the architecture be happy to answer them thank you thank you so much all right back to some of these more objective things and not not necessarily pretty pictures but those are very helpful and I think it gave you a really good idea of where were this projects headed uh this slide excuse me this slide is wanting to focus on uh the height and as Sarah mentioned uh and I believe you did get some supplemental documents via email I think they were properly distributed um and this was uh as as every project and the complexities that we deal with we just have nuances of going back and forth with staff but we wanted to as we've identified in this image our Zone height is from the design flood elevation and we are taking that to the midpoint of that primary main roof and as Chris mentioned to you that roof uh structure is that primary uh portion of the structure we do have some roofs that are part of these uh elements that add for that variation and those architectural elements but we feel uh through our deviation taking it to that midpoint of the primary gives us a Zone height of 51 ft uh staff asked well what would that be if we were to take it to the midpoint of that tallest uh architectural element or that Tower and that takes us to 60 feet 6 in so it's roughly another nine n and a half ft uh of height if we were to look at it from that perspec is that strict strictly um Aesthetics or is there something functional up there those it's strictly an aesthetic it's that uh what Chris was explaining to you those elements that just add that uh and he does it much more eloquently than I can but I think we all get the idea of what we're looking at the structure uh overall height and that's just taking it from uh ground level to the very top of any roof structure we're looking at the 70 feet 7 in and I stated before that's four floors and we uh take that of two levels of parking if you look at the Zone height it's really about uh four floors four and a half floors you've got the uh one two three four and then portion of that top uh parking garage so that's how we're looking at that the buildings in close proximity uh they vary from 3 to 13 stories uh we you're obviously familiar with the Estero Island Beach Club LPA had make a recommendation that was at around 10 stories uh Diamond Head is 13 stories uh we're looking at and do the exact estimates surveyed that but you know between 130 feet 140 feet surf song five stories pelic watch seven stories uh another seven story structure five stories and then the neighbors uh the single family uh those are around those three stories again Chris explained to you uh the height and you know this enables us to provide for that variation in those roof lines and that building aesthetic um the habitable floors are above that design flood Elation and again as I mentioned before we are constructed landard of the 78 cccl by going higher that does enable us to provide those few corridors uh on the East and in combination with delmare RightWay our 20 ft uh combination with 50 ft uh provides a 70ft uh View Corridor and this area allows again for that public area for the public parking along that uh the west side I'm going to go into a little bit more of this in terms of our deviation but at least I wanted to at least lay that foundation for our height our density and intensity classic density equivalency and I mentioned to you uh we've uh analyzed this is there are 24 existing platted lots and those are dwelling units that could be established by right through those platted lots and those could be converted to those guest or lodging units at a ratio of up to 2.5 under 34803 uh subsection A2 equivalency Factor utilizing the plan development process and under the exceptional circumstances uh and ows us to uh increase that equivalency Factor so we're asking for 148 lodging units that would be an equivalency factor of for this project 6.2 as we've outlined in our deviation number six and that's based on the 24 by right dwelling units multiply that 6.2 that gives us the 148 Resort Hotel units intensity and as we outlined also uh some of you sat on the board when we did Meer side uh this is a council director policy to look at how uh FL ratio can be that key regulatory Tool uh as you look at the form and arrangement of specifically your non-residential or your mixed use type developments uh the CPD under the ZR zoning uh is a 1.2 F which we're in the boulevard that allows us to go to .5 as part of our PD process which is through our deviation what we are requesting uh that would equal a maximum square footage around 131,000 square feet just for facts and just relationships of the Town The Pedestrian commercial which is just a few hundred feet uh down the road to the West that jumps an F up to allowable to 2.5 so uh we just feel that you know the relationship you we're still in in our range and we're appropriately asking for it through our deviation process and we are proposing a 1.48 f but our deviation request is 1.5 that just gives us that little little wiggle room with regarding Transportation parking uh Mr uh tedc is here to answer if he need to get any more specifics on that but we've determined uh through his analysis uh the St boulevards designated constrained uh Transportation facility uh even prior to Hurricane Ian it was over capacity but the conclusion is uh to allow for the rezoning will not place under Gordon on the adjacent roadway Network parking so application of the Land Development code and this was an additional some information that we were coordinating with staff on and we provided a a memo to Sarah I believe you should have received that uh and the question really revolved around the application of the uses the accessory restaurant how that can be applied and in our position in our opinion uh through the strict application of the LDC there would be 211 spaces uh staff identified that would be up nine spaces to 220 as we've put on the record with eror projects is and the empirical data that we come across and are routinely uh understand and review is majority of a parking parking that's provided is approximately 25 to 30% is unused on on developments so by having additional parking that we've all discussed it it's encouraging of the vehicles to be used and impacting roadways provides for Unnecessary uh perhaps uh perious surface areas but the town as they've evolved over time has recognized that there can be parking reductions that are appropriate some that 100% 50% 33% uh to encourage that Park once and other modes of transportation so just looking 164 uh parking spaces that is inclusive of uh specifically delineated spaces both within uh the parking garage Park and outside uh along the northern adjacent to Terra Boulevard uh that would be a 47 space reduction or approximately 22% so we are within that range of uh rate reduction we are though seeking a deviation uh to further justify and to help uh solidify our request we have uh Mr Tre did a parking independent parking analysis and through that analysis utilizing the latest data the appropriate uses and analyzing all that the determination during the peak hour uh the main peak hour need for the project is approximately 103 spaces so we realize that we're proposing additional uh uh 61 spaces uh again some of those 26 of those 164 are would be managed through a valet service so those are based on as demand may increase or certain circumstances dictate we have that availability to use that service which is a component of uh we believe in your code that allows us to do that so through that deviation uh we feel that uh our analysis and our justifications uh dictate that the parking is appropriate for the uses uh for the Neptune Project additionally uh our project is focused on looking at those different modes of transportation the multimodal components uh bicycle parking we have identified 32 uh PL 32 spaces throughout the property those would be integrated at those pedestrian amenity nodes along a stero Boulevard uh as Chris identified along the delmare beach access uh also interior to uh the parking garage it's where they would logically want to be placed again having the designated golf cart parking we know that golf carts are a mode that are being used uh throughout the community uh are adjacent to uh designated lran stops just within a few uh less than 100 feet uh near Mango Street and then there's a spot uh Transit uh tra spot uh just adjacent to Sandy Bottoms and then again our pedestrian connectivity that we've identified uh also I think it's fact that is um Adam had mentioned uh you know there prior Neptune there were no amenities but this by providing a restaurant those guests and they are now able to just stay there eat there have a drink there they don't have to necessarily get into other modes or even their car to go uh up and down a stero Boulevard so I think that's a a component and we'll be going in a lot more detail on these commitments and conditions and the benefits but uh they are committed to being a component of this what we believe is where the town will be going with a comprehensive Transportation parking mitigation plan and looking at doing their fair share to uh work through that that don't rent a car the dra program that has been uh identified the shuttle service coordination contribution uh hearing uh what the pink shell is doing that seems like a very uh uh I wasn't aware of it but apparently there are ways that we can now utilize that type of system uh I think they're very interested in finding out more about that we know that a water faxi Ferry faxi Water Ferry and taxi service uh should be coming down the road and uh off-site parking availability things of that nature uh that I think can be attributed to it with consistency with the comp plan LDC uh under the LDC sections uh our request is appropriate to enable this Redevelopment uh really as unfortunately due to the result of the hurricane hean uh we believe we're consistent with a comprehensive plan goals objectives and policies uh that contributed to this Redevelopment of the town and where the town is going as I mentioned before the proposed use is consistent with the boulevard future land use category uh through our pedestrian friendly site design design and building orientation location is compatible uh with the surrounding uses we are uh looking to reduce eliminate the non-conformities that have pre previously existed improving those pedestrian safety uh through our the design of our access points the vehicle maneuverability and circulation which I'll go into a little bit more detail on our development standards uh are to address any of the unique aspect of our property it is a uniquely shaped property uh forget the geometric term parallelogram um and then obviously the aspects of the building code and new FEMA flood zone compliance that we have tohere to uh Urban Services exist uh the Redevelopment in our opinion it will not negatively impact the traffic and does not negatively impact critical areas natural resources and it's uh project that helps us focus on uh Redevelopment in this infill is part of the heart of the Island's Vision uh deviations um with this uh the plan development process allows us to work through uh to redevelop this property uh overall our opinion is the deviations do not negatively impact the Public's health safety welfare and provides the flexibility uh to redevelop and bring back a u Legacy uh property uh with a long-term use and is consistent with the comprehensive plan so going through the first deviation as Sarah mentioned this is a connection separation what I provided here is um on the left side is the exis condition misss the highlighted portion is the non-conforming access point uh for the existing Neptune there's parking spaces all along there that would have to back out and it's just a fortunately a not appropriate way of properly managing uh vehicles um what we proposed on the right are the two access points on a sterile Boulevard again there is one uh further on the West Side that's egress only to delmare um what in our deviation uh to allow for that separation to be less than a 250 you know our orientation of the building and the property Dimensions to have it on that far west side you just don't have that throat distance uh to enable a proper access plus uh we had uh supplemented our application unfortunately I don't believe was in the step report uh that we further identified this provides for improved uh fire and emergency access uh our Engineers did the proper analysis or turning movements for large uh fire trucks and uh large delivery vehicles this provides them the appropriate maneuverability to come in and out of the project appropriately so we feel this de deviation is what's this little guy right here um that's a sidewalk a pedestrian connection from stero into the property so this can you drive across that whole parking lot yes okay yes but all traffic that's going excuse me uh leaving the property left towards the danzas Pass Bridge North End of the island to get off is all going to be funed up through Delmar that's correct they would use that managed stop uh for to take that left yeah the far right uh the eastern most access point is right in right out only and that's due to the orientation of the lanes as you know uh through the redesign and the Reconstruction of the stero Boulevard they've adjusted Lanes out for Transit stops and then there's some uh yeah uh turning turn Lanes down some of them so this far end that's where it tapers down so you don't have that managed left turn in there did you have something to add Patrick Yeah if I just to add that um the idea behind this access management scheme is to really get cars off the road more easily more easily also avoid those backing up conflicts that we used to have and also provide more queuing internally so as we know when guests arrive on a Saturday they're backed up and we need to provide queuing we don't want that to happen in the street it goes under the building to the lobby and we want people to exit delm so it's it's a really organized and it's a way where we think we can really help mitigate those uh any other questions on this first deviation thanks Pat okay thank you uh deviation two it's our allowing for that alternative landscape uh staff has uh acknowledged and we concur with that it's supported uh deviation three uh this again focuses on the parking uh again our objective findings are based on recent and specific use data uh the town standards uh that I have evaluated uh go back to when it was originally adopted in 2010 have not been updated since then and we all know that how people Park and use uses is significantly different and it can change significantly over a short period of time and utilization of our parking analysis uh Ted's group uh uses Institute of Transportation Engineers parking generation manual dated October 2023 and the Urban Land Institute share parking manual analysis helped support the data and we feel that U again the project is providing enough parking uh for the uses and utilization of the different uh mitigation measures and multimodal components can I ask a question about par sure um the valet parking is it just being stacked internal to the project or is it something external to the property right now uh our analysis and abilities is to use everything internally internally yes okay so it' be double stacked in certain portions of the uh Upper Deck got it okay thank you good question deviation four and seven uh kind of correlate and go together with one another and as we've known uh through the exceptional circumstances resulting in This Disaster uh we need to build back this resilient and sustainable uh building uh to become that economic generator uh one of many for the town but as we know when you rebuilding under these we have the new FEMA standards we have building code and through that the build building is elevated must Elevate you must build it up so let's could be a benefit to that elevated area and that creates approximately 22 feet of open area under the building so we feel that that parking and design support and that infrastructure can be utilized within that uh 22 feet that would otherwise not be used so under building parking we believe is uh justifi and logical it eliminates that need for a sea of parking outside of it and allows that flexibility really not to penalize us uh to utilize that area towards our F uh we believe that some discussion has been had and it's being evaluated that maybe one level or certain levels or some amount of the F should uh depending on the type of use within that structure would not be um applicable um so that's why we feel that uh utilizing that area that we would otherwise not use should be appropriate for that calculation also I'd like to add that um when we look at at F I think it's important to understand the tradeoff so if we say as a community that we want you to provide service parking rather than under building parking uh we're going to have bigger parking lots to make a project like this feasible what's going to happen is we're going to go up and high so again we have to look at this compromise of do we want the parking under the building does it make logical sense does it work with the design and is that a better alternative than a seaf at grade parking with a taller building again that becomes a bit of a um design preference we've seen uh stero Island Beach come up with a different concept with a bigger View Corridor there was debate over do we want the bigger Corridor do we not want the bigger Corridor we made a design Choice here that it made a lot more sense for this project to keep it underneath and to come up with a reasonable height so in conjunction our deviation 7 uh that focuses on our desire for the inrease of an F from the 1.2 maximum to an F of 1.5 again this enables our Redevelopment of this type of Resort uh meets the needs uh for a project like this you know it would uh the larger rooms are expected to expected the type of amenities that are uh needed within the building the appropriate back of house and the support areas uh and then needing that flexibility uh to work within the FEMA standards and the building code for this design may I ask another question um I'm not sure if it's been decided or if it's relevant but when you talk about larger rooms more amenities Etc and having amenities reducing the amount of traffic and trips are these rooms expected to be uh suites with a kitchenet type style or are they expect to be more like a traditional hotel room with maybe sitting room and bedroom a you know great question there's a mix so previously the 71 rooms that we had uh with the ne tune all had at least a kitchenet component yeah some had full kitchens okay one of the units actually was 1300 Square F feet I think was a full-on apartment with washer and dryer and everything else we don't have that uh proposed here but so it's a yeah it's going to be a mix of smaller more traditional rooms maybe it's a quick getaway with a couple on up to larger Suites more family style you're staying for two weeks so we got a wrench okay appreciate it thank you thank you okay deviation six uh five oh five yep I went four to seven because there was F yes you did so uh deviation five again this is our request uh to increase uh the height uh from the 30 ft and three stories to to a maximum uh zoned height of 51 ft um our requested deviation based on our uh analysis of utilizing the midpoint to the primary roof would be a deviation of 21 fet uh we feel it's compatible with the existing and uh Heights of buildings in the surrounding area which again they range from three to 13 stories from approximately 40 to 130 ft again creates the variations of and building Aesthetics habitable floor uh design elevation and construction uh it just has enabled us to do that different design again the view corridors in the parking something add evid he's a little creepy well what I'd like to add is is I think one of the uh the reasons for the recommendation from staff was this issue of height and what was given in return being the view corridors so two things I want to address you know I fully acknowledge that our view corridors have some Landscaping obstruction and in the case of Delmar Street we are looking at a combination of our 20 ft that we are providing with the 50 fet from uh delmare we we're not trying to hide that uh we think that the combination enhances that overall Co Corridor yes and we think that there the Landscaping benefit and the the garbage can and the seating and and the foot um rinse are all benefits and while they may create some OB obstructions uh I think we just acknowledge that you just again you as an entity I think weigh all these things together uh if for some reason you feel somehow that it diminishes the value of the view corridor so be it I get it but but again I think we see a value in it 7ot to one side we complement that existing Corridor on one side on the other side we provide a whole new Corridor we have to provide Landscaping we have to I think we all like Greenery so so it's it's a give and take so I think from staff standpoint when we were looking at height there's two things that they they were looking at is the adjacent building does that mean adjacent in the surrounding area or is it directly a budding our interpretation it's around surrounding area and also their um their look at our view corridors and do our view corridors justify the height again uh if you look at the Seagate property there's a Redevelopment plan that specifically called out 50 foot view c y for other projects it is not called out so again is the view corridor sufficient to justify the height uh um my my argument again is is that we took all these things into consideration we could have given bigger view corridors but that would have meant we would have gone higher so again I think it's a compromise can I ask the followup yes please so um it's pertaining to the view corridor and actually more the east side of the building where I think I heard that it was public input that that not have access to the beach yes we we but there's a barrier wall there I believe right we we had initially proposed a beach access on the Eastern s that's towards mangle Street um we did our Public Presentation we had several of the neighbors talk to us after the meeting they sat down and talked extensively with Adam some of the neighbors are here in the audience uh they have requested us they said we like this idea of the separation we like the buffering uh what we don't necessarily like is having a bunch of people potentially walking right in the backyard and and we said that is very understandable and we are willing to just make it a view corridor rather than beach access and then what we the compensating thing was we we will put more attention more emphasis on on enhancing delmare access rather than providing to thanks for that question John thank you okay and to just kind of finish up uh the deviation five also under the policy uh 4c4 it does speak to when you utilize going higher and the benefits of the viiew corridor it also speaks to other public benefits that can be applied uh in association with this and that that's something that uh Patrick will be uh going through a little bit more and the whole bucket or the whole comprehensive look at public benefits of how that would help uh justify the higher Heights and the density Etc so last would be uh number six uh this would is our equivalency Factor has uh went through before we had the by of 24 units we're seeking that uh equivalency factor of 6.2 again our justification looking at the exceptional circumstances surrounding the results of the hurricane and looking at our again overall bucket of public benefits we feel is uh justifiable in relation to this specific projects size and scale and relationship uh to what others have provided in uh in the past uh looking at the unprecedented costs that were expressed before looking at the interest rates uh materials cost of Labor and new regulatory framework of the uh building code in FEMA uh just enables us to look at these circumstances that uh just need us to reach this uh magic number and we believe again all these deviations uh believe are reasonable and will not negatively impact the Public's health safety and Welfare and I think I'm perhaps losing it um so I'm GNA have Patrick come back up and now he can he can finish this off um but I think also going to some comparable don't or we talk about the later okay well I I I'm trying to read the room here I think the energy level is getting a little low to status you guys guys are getting tired everybody's hungry so we do want to put things on the record obviously uh you know for the purpose of of having that complete record but I will try to go through these real quickly just stop me if you have any questions we will and boot on through yeah for deviation 6 if you don't mind are we moving off of that now or yeah we're done with the deviations if you have a question go ahead can you bring your mic down a little bit thanks well there was an opportunity perhaps through the build back policy to get to 71 as opposed to the correct 24 which results in 60 right yes and and as you W would know being on the LPA we can look at these built back scenarios and density in multiple ways and that's often confusing to the public but th this project so what we have to understand is is these projects were approved at a time where they were legally approved and the Neptune had 71 units that was legal they met the code at the time we as governments for many good reasons we keep changing the rules you know uh Coastal Construction line keeps changing we change density and what we have at the Neptune is 71 non-conforming units we do our best to protect protect people's property rights and we vest them for those 71 units but what we have in in in the code is build back Provisions that say you can build back your 71 units but no bigger than what you have but they would have to be exactly to the size cor they were done previously correct wanted that to be clear so if we want to go above and beyond that our best Avenue for us is to go through the plan development process and ask for an equivalency ratio that is greater so you can either look at from the standpoint of we went from 71 to 148 or you can look at the base density which is 24 units and what equivalency ratio brings us to one 148 that's a 6.2 again just for comparison purposes we have allowed greater equivalency ratios for others uh I bring it up because I listen to I look at social media you guys look at social media there's always in the public uh public opinion out there of of this comparison to Margaritaville and and we love Margaritaville and no more than Margaritaville while their equivalency ratio and the reason we chose to present it on the equivalency ratio basis is to be able to compare apples to apples there equivalency ratio was 9.1 we are asking for 6.2 do we provide the same basket as benefits as they did no you understand that we're smaller property but again we believe our basket of benefits is commensurate with our ask 9.1 6.2 different basket and 71 is both market and economically unfeasible which means we would have a bare piece of property yes period yes so that being said I'll jump right to the benefits again um if if you feel that some of these benefits have to be done and new regulations uh mandate that they do it you can discount them I understand that but I think we're just throwing in all all the benefits and some of it is building back more resiliently but code requires that and female requires that I understand that so um sit down restaurant uh I think it'll be a a great golf you restaurant it's going to be open to the public not only is it be open to the public but the idea was that you don't have to Traverse a hotel so it's not imposing to go there there's a side entrance that anybody can access directly the restaurant directly to the Tiki Bar um View Corridor we talked about 25 feet we also talked about maybe staff's position with re um with regards to their their um recommendation was based on those view corridors and the high is um we are an enhanced Delmar um and that is multifold from the standpoint of widening The View Corridor and complimenting delmare but also providing uh 16 uh parking spaces um we will talk about the econom economic impacts annual revenue from those 16 spaces Frankie just stopped by with a little post it earlier on and gave me the annual expected Revenue uh and it's significant um and um we also are going to have um these amenities that we talked about foot rints uh seeding that type of stuff uh improv pedestrian vehicular access we talked about that through the deviation uh planting of trees and creating shade Along The Pedestrian ways uh not only is it good for Aesthetics good for the people but it's a way to promote alternative modes again get people out of the car and make them com comfortable to walk and bike to downtown um the elimination of non-conformities again it was built legally rules change over time it became non-conforming so now we are going to meet code requirements we are going to eliminate the setback non-conformities uh we are going to eliminate that encroachment in the uh postal Construction Control line area and um we are going to replace all the structures with female compliant resilient Harden struct um we believe we are developing a highquality resort with Superior design styling um we are going to be providing bicycle parking and bicycles for guests get people out of their car again uh we are committed to providing a fair share contribution toward Mobility Solutions I want to touch upon this one just a little bit okay I know you guys like for the developer to give a clear commitment let us know don't give us that we may we might and we've tried to do that the one thing that when it comes to Mobility Solutions we believe that at some point this town has to look at townwide Solutions okay and through those T townwide Solutions uh as a community we might say these are the types of programs we want these are the type of things we improvements we need and our understanding is if there's a program established and we look at all the hotels and we say that there's there's a fair share fee of this much per room we are happy to participate uh towards that I think we need those Solutions and if it's a fair playing field for all hotels we are more than happy to contribute our fair share okay um uh the the um promoting the beach School uh great news guys just through Margaritaville and some of the employees the staff sending their kids to the beach School in one year we increase enrollment by 25% the district was telling us we wouldn't even increase it by 10% within five years so this works and we're going to keep promoting it um contribut contributions to the local economy and we'll go into that into the detail but we're looking at ad larm taxes bed tax sales tax job creation and um stuff like the uh parking uh that we would dedicate to the town um and last but not least we think that this specific Pro process this rebuild is consistent with the town's vision of being a family oriented destination and this is the type of resort that really emulates that desire okay when I told you that we fully understand that you guys like commitments and like conditions that can be added to the ordinance I'm not going to go through these one by one but what they do is they codify exactly what we're committing to it could be if the attorneys want to look at it and change the wording slightly before we go to council we don't have a problem with that we are willing to commit to these things okay we're commit we're willing to commit to the amenity nodes and the shade trees along Estero along delmare the public spaces we will dedicate that Perpetual easement um we will um implement the uh dra program again educating the guests and also participating in some kind of uh discount for the guest to incentivize them to leave their cars at home um bicycles again committing to providing bicycles for our guest and also providing um a lot of bike racks throughout the property to encourage residents and locals to frequent that those establishments uh golf cart parking again that's an alternative mode that can get people out of their cars and we are providing dedicated parking space as part of our design um architecture a lot of times we hear that okay it's a pretty picture this rendering looks great is it really going to be consistent with that and what we have there is a commitment that it'll be generally consistent and um The View corridors we talked about that uh again uh we believe the view corridors are consistent with the intent uh we fully understand if someone doesn't like impediments within that view corridor feel free to Discount uh the value of of that V Corridor access um those are the improvements that we discussed uh up um with regards to delmare it talks about the minimum improvements that have to go in and also when it comes to choosing some of the Landscaping we threw in there that uh let's work with the town and the garden Garden Club um some folks from the Garden Club has have shown up to these meetings they'd like to be consultant they they they like the idea of being involved with this so we'd be happy to work with them um Doom plantings again we understand that the Doom plantings have to occur ASAP this hotel sign the easement to allow for the Dooms uh unfortunately as a community we just didn't have the time and we didn't expect these storms to come in but we we lost a lot of our sand so when they start the build they will coordinate directly with the town and where they're going to get those plantings in as soon as possible so we we need to get them in we need to mature they need to to keep the sand in place um Landscaping buffering we talked about we've got an alternative landscape betterment plan as you can see in the staff report staff pretty much says that this goes above and beyond uh Landscaping that is required they're supportive of the idea we are committing to that um the promotion of the beach schol again there will be documentation and information providing provided to all the employees to um give them to at least provide the knowledge that they can send those their kids to the school um the beachfront restaurant tiki bar again uh it'll be uh in the ordinance that we are providing full access to the public um under miscellaneous I I'm glad I listened to your discussion as an LPA I think uh maybe uh John brought up that other communities allow hurricane parking in those parking garages and I said you know that's a great idea and uh it's something that we can definitely provide last but not least we're uh pigging backing on on margarit ville's idea of providing a Rewards program for locals and uh they're more than happy to do that they know that getting Buy in from the locals and being good to neighbors is is a benefit to everybody so yep they're happy to implement that um so we'll jump to the economic impacts and um Mr Dunlop feel free to it's about time somebody stepped into this place feel free to jump in we did our very best we we don't have a clear guidelines as to how this should be done uh there are firms that specialize in doing economic impact analyses um we didn't have the time to hire such a firm and uh honestly we we don't know if it's necessarily uh needed because the information that we could gather I think uh speaks very loudly so on this first slide what you have here is two different different means of looking at the overall economic impact resulting from this development the first one is one that they did internally looking at what their occupancy rates would be what they would typically charge per room and then applying kind of a multiplier effect of you know people come here they spend outside um of of the hotel plus the hotel hires local help they also do business with other businesses and that first number is from on an annual basis they project that uh they would have a 63 million uh impact to the local economy uh right under that is looking at Lee County data the visitor and Convention Bureau and the methodology that was used for that is they put out some reports and they say total economic impacts from visitation to Lee County is that big big number there and then they estimate the number of visitors per year so it was a simple division of you know you take the full impact divided by the visitors you get a per person uh impact of plus or minus $1,500 per visit and if they apply that to their anticipated v um visitation rate uh that comes out to $180 million look we'll be honest with you we we believe the $180 million might be a little inflated a little big but we we know that the impact would fall somewhere between the $63 million per year to 180 million and that is a significant swing amount yeah um again we use best available information short amount of time um and and and someone like Jim probably has way more expertise on this and can tell us if we're way off or if it makes sense um then when it comes to the annual revenue I wanted to look at some of the things that come up on a regular basis so so what we talked about is annual revenue includes everything within the annual revenue okay and and it's a big range but a lot of times people talk about the the direct taxes that the resort will pay and that's sales taxes beted taxes payroll taxes and adore uh that in itself just for the Neptune will be $3.6 million um and then people talk about well there's so little of that money that stays on Fort Mars Beach okay let's let's back up I and I I listened to seate and and the discussion was 6.5% plus or minus so what I want you to look at is just the the low portion of it would be about $650,000 per year um of that amount what stays on the beach is 6.2% that goes directly to the town we also have the FMB Library which is its own taxation District okay we have the FMB mosquito control and then we also have FMB fire so when you include all those things we're really looking at 26.9% that stays locally and that's $174,000 almost 175 um the other thing that people have to to understand is while a bunch of money goes to Lee County we have the opportunity to ask for improvements in our town so the bed tax goes to the TDC but when it comes to beach re nourishment where do they spend the money for Maris Beach and other Beach communities uh same thing with some of the roadway uh fees that we pay you know the county is in charge of a stero Boulevard and they pay for those improvements and we got two BR two bridges that are being worked on that are very costly so if we were to look at how much of that money actually comes back to us uh I think it's very safe to say that it's it's about 27% and the better job that we do as aity Community to ask for the more we can get back um then from a jobs creation um we're looking at approximately 75 FTE we use FTE because some jobs are full-time some are part-time and that's uh about uh 4.5 million in annual wages so those are all annual reoccurring revenue for the town U so also let's look at one-time Revenue okay and those are our impact fees we understand that we don't currently have those impact fees defined so as a proxy what I use is Lee County impact fees what they charge and those impact fees are for roads Parks fire or Ms um our if we were to have the same impact fees that they do our estimated impact fee would be approximately $900,000 um some communities have water and sewer impact fees and that's all part of the whole impact fee schedule Lee County has connection fees for water and sewer essentially their impact fees again a onetime fee so if we look at our water and sewer connection fees that's approximately uh 4.8 million uh $480,000 so combined we're looking at impact fees of almost 1.4 million so you're committing to paying the impact fees when we get those legislation and Poli regardless the permit application process that yes I I I think I think by the time we're ready to pay ourn fees if if as a town we haven't finished our our report and adopted them yeah we're doing something wrong here uh I'll take as a yes for the yeah I would take I would take it as a yes regardless so so um and also just to put things into perspective okay our and annual adval collection of taxes or or annual budget um for if it wasn't for money coming in from other agencies is approximately 4 million so that's we don't have a big annual budget on Fort Myers Beach and we do the best we can with that limited amount but when you're talking about impact fees of 1.4 million yeah there you go and annual revenues such as as these that are reoccurring it it really moves the need and then I'll give you this is is Frankie's little um Post-it that he gave me 16 parking spaces that's $21,900 on average per parking space uh annually uh the parking the beach parking long delmare would bring in approximately $350,500 per year of reoccurring Revenue in perpetuity there you go I would like to provide some clarification there's six existing parking lots spots there now six okay so let's by 10 just 200 okay for and and I'll just pass this out also this is from your budget and it shows you uh where that had long tax dollar goes anything else Patrick uh just my my closing argument Miss chairman um and I brought this up already but we we have to understand that when it comes to the number of units that are currently online this is official data the best available information from the visitor and Convention Bureau they estimate that we have uh 45% of our hotel units lodging units back online uh and when we ask if they had something more recent they said no that number would probably go down with the two recent storms so again we are far from being up and running fully and we also know that some of those hotels are never coming back the beacon for example has made it very clear that they are not coming back so uh I I think that has to play into uh this idea of granting additional density um also what I did is I went back to the 1990 comp plan and I looked at the total number of lodging units that were identified in 1990 and I updated that information with the two the 2020 census data right before um Ian so we had uh 3,620 lodging and that was Motel RV time share units uh 2020 before you those numbers had actually gone down to 3,133 where we stand today I don't know what that exact number is it's much slower we can all agree to that question for you yeah what is your timing on this project you're saying first quarter possibly tearing down so so you know if if we get all permits in hand ready to go it's about a two-year Bill and how long do you think it'll take to get the permits in hand um so assuming we get through the zoning hearings before the holidays um they've started on the the engineering but uh we're looking at plus or minus 6 months and then that would give them the permits in hand and they could start construction um so so um on on the residential side also again we we can't equate traffic and trips to units um it does contribute and what we have to do is we have to mitigate for that we have to find Creative Solutions but again residential we know that a lot of the units are not online and I feel very confident that we will have fewer residential units in the future than we had pre a lot of those apartments that were ground level are not getting built back and a lot of times people don't have enough space on their property to build them up also some of these duplexes are going to become bigger homes and they're going to be combined and some of these homes also can become second and third home for many people and they're not going to be occupied a good portion of the year so again I think it's very likely that we will have a reduction in um in residential units long term um and personally I do not fear additional density granted to projects when it is a good project and advances um what we are trying to do as a community so with that being said I'll wrap it up uh in my Prof professional planning opinion the camp professional planning opinion uh we have met um the Land Development code requirements and we are consistent with the comp plan uh we know that uh we differ a little bit uh with staff's opinion about our benefits but we believe that our benefits justify the ask and uh therefore um we would respectfully request a recommendation for approval thank you Patrick thank you okay I'm going to open up the public comment uh is there anyone here who'd like to speak I have one signed up and who is that uh Susan bon bon Figley Susan Susan were you sworn in earlier I was good I Susan Bond digley I'm a resident at Fort Meers Beach I live on Cottage Avenue on the east side of the Neptune I like their project design and I just want to uh bring forth the issues that we've discussed with them they've been very good about listening to us but this not only applies to the Neptune but as a resident of the Town any issue that comes up any new building so we've discussed with them with the tiki they're going to have Music Entertainment you know I like going to those places too I just don't want it at my home so the rest of the world can go home and have quiet if these places keep coming in um with projecting noise outside I have no place to go um so they've been good about it they've listened to it I have suggested things that I've seen at other Resorts where they actually have um the musician with this with the microphone and the Amplified music but it goes through a speaker system yes and in strategic locations ground level by the people that they are actual customers and I'm hoping that that could be used for other um businesses that request the same um another concern I have is uh we are away from the Hub and the public restrooms I think that they're going to find that they're going to have a lot of public people just coming to use the restrooms that they are supportive of that and can handle it because where we are we see a lot of um on the beach restroom usage um for the East Corridor where they're doing the 25 foot width um I saw on the design it was like a straight path which is going to encourage people to go down there and find out they can't go further so I would think um it would be nice if it was actually um a lot more Greenery in there it is angled from a sterile Boulevard so no one is going to have a straight view on that Corridor anyway so why not put uh a lot more Greenery in there it'll keep the air cooler in that environment it will be refreshing to see Green Space floral space alongside the building and I think it would be great for their guests staying there to overlook like uh a garden uh and it would be appreciate you know as a neighbor I would appreciate it as well uh granted Turtle lighting will probably be there uh but you know uh off seon uh again they have to consider their customers I would want to make sure that nothing you know projects ostentatiously you know against the neighbors I I doubt that they would want to do that but I just want to make a point that U and put that out there um and also in that path I was uh I saw it was like a straight line which means that someone's on a bicycle and said let's go see what's down there they make it windy or whatever and I think that the goal is to allow for like they were saying like fire trucks or whatever so even if they put like florals against that wall and then like just SE grasses in there and wind it around it'll keep the area cooler for your guests as well to keep the air cooler uh because with all of those buildings and walls it's just going to collect heat and be hot okay so I just wanted to put that out there because not only for this project but so many projects in town could thank you very much hopefully use that thank you very much um yes hi hi Henry neighbor to the east wait hold on were you were no come on you were come on up now say your name Henry scha thank you I am the neighbor to the East 63 Mango Street um on your first meeting and I met the gentleman um they listened to my concerns and I fully came here to be biased against you gentlemen but they took my concerns to Heart in their renderings and everything else so thank you very much for listening uh I do have a couple of concerns when demo happens my house is 10 foot from their building how are we going to address that that's because like you I just spent a ton of money on that house to repair it and now this happens also I wanted to put concrete talk to the sir you need to talk to the I'm sorry I wanted to put concrete on the side of the house I I'm going to hold off on that for right now sounds to me like you'll be able to negotiate that with them yes um also alcohol pool doesn't mix it the noise does carry the old Neptune they used to play till 10 11 o'clock at night music I understand that but it's I'm this is our residence since 95 and I'm trying to get some rest go to work and people are having a good time and I get jealous of that quite such a nice way to say it uh I I just hope there's some kind of plan to keep the noise down uh the third thing I have to say is my wife would like the gentleman's uh to give us uh use of their amenities for imper petu for the family you'll have to negotiate that directly I wanted that for the record and that's really all I have to say thank you so much for coming in I appreciate your comments Mr Fleming I don't think think you were here to be signed sworn in earlier you were here oh ever since the very beginning I didn't see okay U Ron Fleming delmare Avenue uh because I'm not a member of this committee I can be more blunt into the point uh I'd like to start out with to address to uh the owners I have never been treated with such utter disrespect and insolence I feel because that structure is still there for the first three four months well of course it's there but nothing has been done to that structure except once they put a fence around it well Milton took care of that the place is wide open why are we being treated like this now I understand that you know well it's not my fault your bank is in Ohio perhaps you pay too much money for that property when you bought it you knew what you bought I see things that I like what I don't like is all the structures that they say the height this and that they were all built before incorporation we have a plan stick with it what I see is a site that had 71 on units they want more than 100% 100% more there is no benefit to the town yeah taxes but what about the residents uh you know they said you know they play music they go home but I got to hear it I have gone past that destruction a couple thousand times and it's terrible I mean I have to say they are the worst neighbor I've ever encountered it's true it's just it's you know and I like you caught the fact that you know they're going to give us 16 parking spots well we already have six you know the building looks good but it's still way over height we incorporated the keep Heights in their narrative I read it three times Nowhere In The Narrative of the applicants did they mention and they included pictures of the destruction nowhere does it say we're going to take this place down I would like to see a condition put on and I don't know if this is even possible but I would like this project to be stayed until that lot is cleared you cannot start rebuilding until that lot is cleared and until that lot is cleared it needs to be secured the doors are open the fence is down the pool is a mess it's ter terrible uh I wish you luck with whatever it is you end up with but I hope that you don't get what you're wishing for because you don't deserve it you have treated me with disrespect and all of our neighbors thank you thank you Ron is there anybody else who would like to speak okay seeing no one we will close the public comment um we're going to take a quick five minute break because I have to go or you can focus so where I have to I to focus e e e e e e e very much okay we're reconvened um Sarah did you have anything to add wake back up honey um Sarah propes Community Development um I don't have anything necessarily that needs to be add but I am added um but I am available for any questions um I did want to discuss that the um height request the reason that staff asked for this them to measure their height slightly differently um is because I wanted to ensure that they didn't run into a problem when they submitted their development agreement if they didn't ask for that additional height for the tower I didn't want them to run into a problem so they're not proposing any additional height that would be usable space but have to cosmetic can you go over your reasons for denial again uh the primary reason for denial was the height um they're not directly adjacent to I mean it's it's very similar to the pink shell situation um they are providing um some public benefits they are providing a view corridor uh however view corridors got very mixed reviews on the last couple rounds of of comments so I don't know what value that public benefit does have um but with them not being directly adjacent to uh other tall buildings I didn't think that it was appropriate um also just the ask for um that multiplier uh that I mean it's a big ask uh from what they had so I didn't necessarily feel that it was in line with what the town had previously uh found approvable so and what what in your opinion would be um appropriate as a multiplier well she can can yeah I don't think that that would be appropriate for me to make any sort of a recommendation then it becomes the guideline exactly exactly can't do that yeah but I mean it's really about measuring that public benefit in in my opinion and the the give on the parking spaces I do believe is I mean that's a quantifiable public quantify it Don do you have any questions for Sarah or for the applicant no I don't think I do I think I'm pretty clear on both do you have any comments you'd like to share or no um well my comments are you know I continue to like everyone I think try to figure out uh our path and and certainly taking cues from our Council and some of the previous projects you know to me this one um is a pretty reasonable request from the heights perspective uh the biggest issue for me on this one is that you know we're doubling the number of units I certainly understand the economics of that but um you know it's it makes it a tougher decision right if you're going back if you're building back you know there was a previous project they were building back number units trying to get what they had before and um so for me that was you know pretty clear there were certainly some deviations there and this one's a little different again not asking for the moon that's still you know kind of doubling the size of your or the number of units does does factor in a lot of a lot of the various concerns we all have those are my comments not very conclusive but just my thought John how about you questions or any comments uh I I think I I asked the questions I had during the presentation uh I would like to understand from the applicants the openness to the restroom comment that was made in public Patrick the question is whether or not public will be allowed access to restrooms in your hotel I I believe the uh the comment was um you guys ready you might get get a lot of traffic when it comes to the bathroom um look I I don't know how extreme it would be I look at w Willies that's right down town MH and that bathroom is open to the public and when I've been there and I had to use it I didn't really have to wait in line so so I'm not that concerned about it you know that's that's the only anecdotal and as part of being the restaurant Tiki Bar complex the customers would have access to it anyway very hard to police yeah the one thing uh when it comes to the parking spaces we looked at an angal the existing six parking spaces are across Delmar on on the far side and and I think I think the idea is I don't know if those all go away it could be a combination of so good point well taken but I I don't necessarily think that we we might be able to get more than 16 if the town keeps their uh their spots also so the configuration is three going along the side of surf song one right at the entrance to the to the left of the beach access and then two more coming basically at the the ne2 property also if I can just address a comment that was made by Don with regards to he said we we've had another project that was rebuilding keeping the same number of units uh I think that's materially important from the standpoint of that was a time share residential conduit no option there and and and we've had discussion with with numerous people that are looking at options for rebuilding what you have to understand is that there's there's a few impediments that you can't get more density without a comp plan when it comes to residential condos if you're non-conforming you already have high number it makes sense the elasticity in the price you can charge for a condo is way greater you just make the condo a little bigger you make it nicer that that price point what you can charge for that condo can go way up and make your perform and work hotels you are at the mercy of the market you may say we want to charge 5,000 bucks a night but if this is not the market for 5,000 bucks a night you will not get it so the elasticity associated with what a hotel can charge just isn't the same as a condo unit and that's they need the numbers okay Jim do you have any questions or comments for I any questions I appreciate all the effort and detail that's gone into this um seems very reasonable to me the um we have to start somewhere um you made a Yan's attempt at putting the economic impact together um it's not perfect but you put yourself out there and I like to see that because you have to defend those numbers um I think the height is reasonable based upon what you have to work with and also we had an election and we have a council that um has set up electorate to say and they had a choice on how development was going to work to have these kind of projects versus the nebulous Alternatives with people we don't know about that we don't know how to get to that haven't put in this kind of detail I think it's a more dangerous option taking the one we have working with you as you have with your neighbors congratulations on that and made a compelling oppos or compelling offer to us to um support the beach in's economic growth so at this point I'm favor of the project Patrick something that I had in my notes early on uh and was brought up by two of the public speakers was outdoor entertainment and the containment of noise is super important it has been forever and having neighbors So Close by um is there um I mean is that in the plans to I mean Susan had a great suggestion sort of like you know you go to Coconut Point everywhere you go you hear music but you don't hear music loud anywhere yeah um so no I think I think that that point was very well taken and I think that could be a great model for for all the outdoor entertainment of we don't need just two speakers projecting we can have multiple speakers all over the the terce uh we like that I think the idea is that we weren't really focused on that because this wasn't a bar or a restaurant and it was kind of an existing uh Hotel so we didn't build that in but we before we go to council we can certainly look at creating some some guard rails and some limitations the one thing that we do have is if you look at the design it is kind of a self-contained design and the idea is that that provides some level of protection but not because you're you're out and then it's in we do need to to create some limitations and um you know either that we we can take under advisement what staff may have to say or we can make come up with our own uh uh limitations that we think are appropriate and consistent with other other venues and present that at Council okay um any other go ahead Jan um I would also like to piggyback on the neighbors as I am a neighbor and walk down the street every day three times a day with my dog and end up you know right in front of your place it has been a tremendous eyesore and having the electric hanging off the walls and the dead trees falling over looking like they could you know do damage and the amount of homeless people that were living in there with the amounts of alcohol that was thrown around my fear for you was you were going to get sued and they were going to own your building because of no guard rails or anything on the second floor and the water still being in the pool and not completely contained it has been a IA to live with that's for sure in fact I had I had people visiting my house and I went out for a walk where we had walked by my visitors had walked by the Neptune and I kind of told them and they'd seen the the homeless coming and going they they actually called both of my children because I was out on my walk too long and was worried if she they should call the cops because of the Neptune and I think that did they call you yeah yeah looking you know what should we do and I had stopped to talk to a neighbor but you know that was the fear that they didn't want to walk by there at night and you know it is it is concerning but I I also am concerned about the number of parking spaces that are I mean you say maximum height would be 103 while if you're full at 148 you're probably going to have 148 cars and so if you take your 164 minus your 148 you got 16 cars for the restaurant I hope you're going to have more than 16 cars for the restant we we can go get up to 162 I believe 64 I'm taking 164 okay I thought youus your 148 okay that gives you 16 parking spaces for your but even at 148 that's above and beyond what the the best available information right now is these it manuals okay what you have to understand is these codes throughout the country and I've written some of those codes what you do is you say what does this jurisdiction require what does this one oh we'll look at three and then we'll come up with an average okay not not based on any kind of fact yeah but we have by code what what should be required but but we we also allow for this alternative study we paid an expert to do that study best available information what they do is they sample Resorts throughout the country and they look at the needs and they look at hotels that are just purely hotels and they look at Resorts that have restaurants and have internal capture and they come up with an average and if we look at what that study says we have access parking so yes we are less than what the code says but we know the code is not that accurate the best available information is the it manual and we meet that requirement but Jane what's your request relative to this question well the question is I'm concerned that there's not enough parking to accommodate the business of the restaurant Tiki Bar and the um Hotel itself the the other thing I can tell you is is I spoke to I won't name the name but another hotel on this island they were telling me that 10 years ago it was almost one room one one car per room and just in the last few years there about five okay hold on Patrick does anybody else share the parking concern you have a concern about it Jim their problem do you have a concern about it I have none I don't have a concern about it either Don do you have a concern about it no okay no okay all right um okay any other questions for Patrick thank you very much Patrick um any other discussion or if not is there a motion to approve or to deny I'd like to make a motion to approve neptun in CPD 2310 and 2316 at 2320 esto Boulevard and the ordinance number is not complete on there but whatever you want me to put on the record to to recommend that approval is there a second for the motion thank okay there's a second from Don so um I'm going to surprise people and tell you that I'm going to support this motion and I'm sorry Ron um I I have liked this project from the first time I saw it um it's too high it's probably too dense but to um the overachiever designer um you you did a tremendous job you did a tremendous job in all the details that you noted uh you did a tremendous job to make this a very palatable uh project for Fort Meyers Beach I I Jim would like you to add to your motion a condition that um memorializes the pages I think it's 43 to 48 as far as public benefits and 18 to 26 are all the these are all things in the in the staff no in the presentation that um memorialize these details for us and also that outdoor entertainment will be addressed um and um uh i' I'd like I'd like that to be put in the conditions of approval either yes I'd like that to be in the I'd like that to be in the uh conditions of approval do you agree Jen I do if I could just get council's reaction we do have noise ordinances on the books we do it doesn't work it puts the onus it it'll put the onus on Susan it it'll put the onus on the and it should the owners should be on the property own making sure that we don't try to represent that we can put something more restrictive and is it enforcable so only reason I'm asking the councel I I I would just oh you're asking that Council okay that's the only Council that exists here got it make sure it's legitim we can enforce it at this point I would not recommend putting in any specific condition however um you could put something in very general um applying or compliance with all town of Fort Meers Beach code ordinances including but not limited to the noise ordinance um if there are changes made to the noise ordinance where it can be um enhanced and strengthened then um then it would be covered we do put um restrictions on live music uh time hours and hours maybe the music no drums all that sort of stuff there's there's ways that we can do that I'd be glad to put amend the uh the motion Anita with with those criteria I think it's advisable for the applicant between now and Council as you're talking about to bring some sort of a plan since it was not addressed um but happy to do that do do you agree Don I do okay all right um so anybody that thinks that I'm uh turning my back on the uh on the town of Fort Meers Beach you can come see me at The Islander on Thursday I'll be there and I'll explain to you more more detail why I think this was a good idea um so um is there any further discussion on this Jane do you have anything NOP uh John anything I do have a concern about the density yeah but I think the project in general is a net benefit to the island there's been a lack of uh protest against this project I haven't seen a lot of emails and letters and in fact I've seen support from their direct neighbors so I'm I'm for okay um if there's no other discussion uh your vote Mr dunlay I how about you Don I John I Jan I and I am an i it passes unanimously through the ulpa with um Mr bone and Mr emman uh absent okay thank you Ron you Ron you can call and yell at me later uh um okay the next item on the the agenda next item on the agenda is under the administration administrative section of the agenda has to do with the LPA guidelines and these were just distributed by Nancy Nancy you did a Yan's job of waiting through so we we're not going to talk about them in depth today however at today's meeting I did observe a few things um there were some issues that came up about voting remember at the very beginning so you might want to add some specific language about how you select your chair and your Vice chair there were some issues today about interveners as far as how much participation maybe set up some guidelines guys Take It Outside Take It Outside man also um a few comments were made regarding continuances um and agenda distribution deadlines so maybe you come up with something like um can you come up with something because I agree that that well by the way um that almost derailed uh well they're not here well you could say something like anything that is presented after the distribution of the agenda is an automatic continuance right that generally does it but then you still want to have a little wiggle room in case if something actually does need to go forward in your discretion so you could say then something like with a majority vote of the LPA just to say something the only thing I would add to that is there there's there's there's a distinction in my mind since we have this two- we window now that we've established between something after added after deadline and something added at the day of the meeting yeah um and those are just not equal so if we get the chance to aine on something that's being added after the deadline I think that's fair I don't think we ought to allow anything to come the day of the meeting without triggering some sort of invalidation of the conversation Yes except for sometimes there's little things that come up and nobody knew about it staff didn't know about it the applicant didn't know about it something that maybe the public raises you may still want to keep that flexibility in your discretion to continue to move forward with that a little bit of more information but it it would be discretionary but you're indicating that formally a formality of the process will be there'll be an automatic vote at the beginning of the meeting recognizing that something has been add it which I'm fine with and therefore should we continue or not without having a chance to review yet yeah it that's an option that you have and I'd like think to we would have just gotten it it may have just been handed to us and that's why I think the distinction with the difference is if it comes that L yeah that's a huge difference yeah it's it's um somebody email that to me as well yeah we sure will it's not as transparent for the public either okay bye Don I mean Amy thank you thank you Don Amy for the record Don suth is is out of the house leaving the building so Amy makes available copy of things that she receives for those in the public that would like to see what what you know what um handouts you're getting yeah um but you know at this this would be after the fact this would be after the packet is distributed but it is part of the presentation that's given um I just don't think it'll ever be given and I get that distinction of handout when people come in I I think those are fine in so many ways they enhance the details on the presentation and all that um and they're taking the risk whether or not we'll consider it or not in our individual Minds because it came late we can't process it or even validate it right right and that to me is different and by the way I'm only talking about the applicant bringing something yes I I not the general public and not any of those comments somebody coming so the emails are fine that kind of thing you agre Anita I you do totally agree okay and but think about it um until the next meeting and then the last thing I had was you may want to consider adding some kind of stop time um because today your meeting went very very long and um others had to leave how about it what not just our stop time but having a proposal I mean I told Patrick in the break you gota you got to jump that up because that was just their presentation was too long and um and but I understand that they also for their for their uh people they need to they need to construct the record so correct U maybe there would be a good idea and I've seen it in other jurisdictions where the applicant says it's going to take us one hour our time our time is this and when it gets that way they know they've got some constrict to their um so maybe that's something to consider I don't know it you know these cases are important and this work that we're doing hopefully it's important and um so there's kind of a a hard stop for members of the public at 3 minutes I mean sometimes they go over a little bit more sometimes you take a vote to allow additional time yes um if there are only two speakers as opposed to 200 yes and you may want to consider that for your applicants as well or your interveners um but also for your meeting as a whole um I have seen in other jurisdictions that they'll say we we stop at 12:00 and any item that's not addressed by 12 basic Bally gets pushed over to the next meeting and how do you all feel about that I think the Q&A could could cause that to deteriorate quickly if we get any more details I don't think that's fair to us let alone fair to them I agree I agree with your intention but what what I think we have to coach in and uh and encourage people is that keep these things to a certain parameter of this allow us time to interact with you because if you take all that time we either have have less interest in delving into things because time's going on or we can get a chance at all to get deeply into two or three things we might really want to go into so I think putting out some guidelines about encouraging presentations to be this I've heard some people preparing to present us for six hours it hasn't come yet yes but I've heard that I've heard that exact well do you remember when you had your pool presentation years and years and years ago and I said Jane more is not more you less less is more you've it so so I think guidelines would be great knowing that we can push a pause button and delve into it as deeply as we choose to okay that okay yeah it's fine um again come back to me um in December with with whichever direction you want to go and we'll try to get it in there so a little knit if I can while we have just one more moment with this because you're gonna ask at some point to to app on it you made me read these things when I first joined so I recall it's still in there can you just take a second and indicate whether or not there's any um criteria validation to the school board member inclusion in zoning and changes and whether or not that officially happens can somebody object so they are the school board is an exp parte um not Exar ex officio U member of your LPA and never has it ever occurred never they um they generally are put on notice when there's a change in density um U my understanding is is that they get a copy of our agenda or at least somebody do you think that's probably still happening I I don't know I'm just saying somebody will trigger something sometime about something and to the school the only reason the only reason why I'm bringing it up you know working in other jurisdictions I've been in jurisdictions where every meeting a school board member is present I've been in jurisdictions where every once in a while someone shows up and I've been in meetings just like yours where um we don't know if they're reviewing the agendas you know outside and then have no comment in the public realm you mean versus being actually sent one correct yeah I I don't know I I just don't want that day will come and you're very good at this when somebody's going to pick that moment and we're into the the the final stages of something very important and there'll be a difference of opinion whether it's political or real and we got to have just like we do notice is have our defenses prepared or not include that in our operating is it by Statute we have to or something yes it is by Statute um Sarah do you want to comment on P practice I don't want to take us down the path if you want time but it's just in there still and I um I I don't interact with the school board so uh so I'm not sure who the school board person would even be uh we have not never has it happened no um but I have worked in communities where a Schoolboard person was also included on all like whenever packets went out maybe we can just clean up the communication usually it was an electronic or maybe just notification the agenda was available and then if they we needed comment you know if there was a large development happening if we needed comment we would make sure that we reached out to that school board person um we haven't had any instances of large developments that are residential in nature so that hasn't been an issue you know like large increases huge subdivision going in exactly so we don't we haven't really had anything like that all all of everything we've had has been resorted or replacement okay and we would assume that they're kind of mon moning all right um you soon okay yeah I'll go on that all right thank uh all right let's move on to the um to the uh public benefit section that you did Judith I just have one question for everyone here because I did not intend this but maybe you all did I did not intend for these um ideas to be specific only to to a development agreement or CPD I thought that they would become definitions and that those definitions would be whether we were talking about a Bayfront home or we were talking about a large scale development Am I Wrong Greek completely ought to be in the Lexicon not specific to pick type of legislation that was my feeling did you all think that uh I didn't see any distinction between development agreement and okay so you have a couple of spots in here where you mentioned specifically pertaining to a development agreement I understand why yes I do too but but I that's that is I did not think that that did you think that I did not think that was our discussion I thought our discussion was we are going to talk about what this means like in theory and Jim's word put it into the Lexicon of Fort Meers so somebody says what's a public benefit we can tell them okay when we were having the conversation um so I made the memo based on my notes and we were talking about the development AG special benefit language there and so that's why I I figured that was it but I just wanted to make sure because we're going to be talking about this tomorrow I wanted to make sure that I wasn't on a different page than the rest of these folks are 8:30 yeah 8:30 not 9 o' 8:30 there 8:30 and if you if you take a look at the agenda for tomorrow I also attempted to summarize the town council's agenda thoughts yeah from their meeting into that into that memo so we can certainly clarify at the beginning of the meeting of great thank you so much I appreciated it I appreciate it okay lpa's I don't have anything from an email we do have a meeting tomorrow at 8:30 a.m. um and there was an email sent out by Amy uh asking um if everyone was available I don't know if you responded or not because I don't know that the agenda went out this morning Ono y okay lpa's items uh John do you have anything uh no I'm good thank you how about you Jane no oh no uh Jim I have eight or 10 items but I really don't so okay um Nancy anything from you no anything from you guys Judith or or Sarah okay so um our special meeting now huh our special meeting tomorrow morning at 8:30 will no December 3rd oh our special meeting yes is that confirmed oh this is not my phone is that confirmed okay um so our special meeting will be December 3rd what's next for us to look forward to just go go ahead and let us uh stir up the anxiety now our special meeting is going to be focused primarily on we're talking about the additional meeting in December yeah addition pink shell I'm sure we be there fact I think our continuance was continued it was continu yeah one of the items is going to be the pink shell um um that was continued today um I believe the Arches will be coming up shortly um um sorry I had to double check on an item hold on one second I'm trying to get the schedule to open for us so coming up we will have uh Lonnie Kai uh paid parking lot um and so that's a special exception and variances um The Arches CPD will be coming up that's a CPD a stero Beach Club um work in the EC so special exception um another special exception another it looks like your December 3rd meeting will be primarily um special exception items so that you can kind of get the size of the agenda whittel down so on the 10th we're going to have the larger items but at the third we'll probably cover like all the smaller items okay great great great thank you Sarah okay anything else from anyone motion