e e e e e e e e is a regularly scheduled meeting of the fort Meers Beach local planning agency it's Tuesday April 9th 2024 and it's 9:00 a.m. all members of the board are present except for Doug eckan who has a excused absence and if I could have a motion please to accept Don suth via Zoom so moved second and that is for extenuating circumstance extenda circumstances but Don you look good up there nice you very nice very nice you know that's not where he really is anyway if we could please stand for the invocation in the Pledge of Allegiance we vote oh we go vote oh yeah hold hold on vote all in favor I thank you I pledge allegiance to the plague of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all oh give us the strength to have our deliberations be clear and in the best interest of everyone here visitors and residence of Fort Meers Beach amen amen amen uh the first item on the agenda somebody somebody need something we give us a meeting yesterday and walk out with our clicker oh interesting okay okay first item on the agenda is approval of the minutes for the LPA meeting of March 12th and the LPA special meeting of March 14th if I could have a motion for those minutes as distributed or if anyone has any changes so moved second so there's a motion by Jane and second by Jim is there any discussion any objection to the motion motion carries unanimously uh next item is public comment if you are here to talk about one of the cases um and the case we have a special exception a variance um an ordinance and then we've got a comp plan change and the comprehensive plan and emergency um temporary uses and a draft of the new variance procedures so if you'd like to speak to any of the um actual cases I suggest you wait and for the public comment in that case otherwise if you're here just to say General comments uh please come on up anybody have any comments morning NOP okay uh Nancy do you want to go ahead and do the swearing in of people and whatnot now at the front end so we can because we'll move on to the first hearing yes um thank you madam chair so your first two public hearings today um are Quasi judicial the remaining items on your agenda are legislative so they are um a little bit less formal um the legislative ones will be than the Quasi judicial ones um as far as um items number A and B um these are Quasi judicial in nature and then this re Florida law requires these public hearings to comply with procedural requirements that have been established in Florida law and in our Land Development code now these proceedings the Quasi judicial ones they are less formal than proceed meetings before a circuit court but they are going to be more formal than the remaining uh public hearings that we will be having today so our public hearing for these two items will follow basic standards of due process and this requires that there have been certain notices provided the application of the correct standards and that the decisions by the LPA are made on based on competent and substantial evidence in either written documents or in uh oral testimony the LPA then will evaluate the testimony and the information for each item and then draw a conclusion whether this the criteria that is established in the Land Development code has been satisfied and um any requirements under state law have also been satisfied so pure speculation or just an opinion that is not based on facts cannot legally be considered by the LPA in evaluating a agenda item so testimony by professionals who are qualified as experts in a particular area has been viewed as competent evidence by the Florida courts as well as testimony by neighbors and residents with fact-based information such as minutes surveys engineering reports or based on their own information and knowledge and personal observations so if you intend to speak please keep these things in mind and when you come forward if you can state your name clearly for the record whether or not you have been sworn in and your qualifications or your interest in the matter so for purposes of efficiency before we begin any of these two quasi judicial public hearings I would like to go ahead and dispose of a few housekeeping items the first first is I need to ask our town clerk if all agenda items were properly noticed pursuant to Our Land Development code yes they were okay my next question is directed to the LPA and I need to ask you does anyone have a conflict of interest under Florida law which would prohibit you from voting on any of these two items John no Jim no Jane NOP Patrick none Don Sarah Don yeah the the um I believe it's I can't get the agenda in front me the island WIS Island WIS first one isn't there an island winds on there yes Island wins Island winds is the uh first item on the agenda you have a conflict with that I do because I live there vice president on the board okay okay so um under Florida law then you you will be required to uh fill out form 8B and um not vote on that matter and your Form B would then be included in the minutes for our subsequent meeting okay thank you even with his um exstension from voting we still have a quorum present so we can proceed forward with um our two quasi judicial agenda items so at this time if there is anyone in the audience who would like to present testimony um in any of the Quasi judicial hearings if you would please stand raise your right hand so the clerk can swear you in that's it do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth all right all parties have been sworn thank you is there anyone of the parties that will give testimony on A or B that want to be qualified as an expert in a particular area or field I will let you know that our staff members have already been uh viewed as expert in the area of land use planning in the town of Fort Meyers Beach anyone else okay um Madam chair I think at this point we should be ready for expart disclosures on the first the first item okay very good um let me read the title first uh secz our first public hearing secz 202 424 is at 6614 Estero Boulevard it's a resolution of the Town Council of the town of Fort Meers Beach Florida approving approving with conditions or denying a special con a special exception not conception uh secz 202 424 to allow reconstruction of a wooden landscape wall in the environmentally critical EC zoning district with conditions for the property located at 6614 Estero Boulevard providing for scribers errors severability and an effective date um Patrick any uh ex parte Communications Jane none I have none Jim none and John none okay so we'll proceed with the staff's presentation good morning Jason good morning Opa members good morning good morning my name is Jason SMY I'm with your planning and zoning department try not to Boom here today is a before you is a request related to 6614 Estero Boulevard otherwise known as Island winds condominium uh the request is to repair approximately 250 linear feet of um of wood retaining wall this was a retaining wall that existed uh prior to the storm the staff can confirm going back to 1998 uh using Lee property appraisers uh aerial photographs that the wall did exist uh but we have been told that the wall is actually older than that we just can't visually confirm that uh the request regards uh re redeveloping this wall in the EC Zone uh the EC Zone uh can be redeveloped within uh through Section 34 652e of the Land Development code uh requires a special exception which is the reason that they're here today the construction of the wall itself is proposed to be two courses uh only one of those courses is intended to be above grade so it will be a replacement of about 9 to 10 in of uh wood retaining wall in the rear area uh the wall itself tends to follow the 197 8 cccl line but the reason for their request today is at least one portion of the wall on the south portion of the property is about 12 feet or more closer to the water or seaword than the 1978 cccl so the applicant today is requesting the ability to go ahead and rebuild that uh staff doesn't have uh too many concerns about this I I would like to point out U Mr vaness Grace graciously let us know that uh staff had unfortunately put the wrong recommendation on the cover sheet I was going to ask the same question okay this uh the recommendation is for approval with conditions the conditions are fairly boilerplate uh information but I apologize that that made it through the editing section Jason it's not often you make a mistake so thank you very much thank you for that I don't believe it but I I thank you so much for it okay there if there are any questions or concerns uh staff is here to answer to those and the applicant uh Mr nus bomb is here also for questions it's nice to see you Dave um Jane any questions for staff nothing Patrick none how about you Jim no John none I have none thank you very much thank you and the applicant Mr nusom it's nice to see you I hope you're well thank you I am good morning Madam chair uh Comm committee members and staff uh my name is Dave nbam I'm president of Island winds condominium located actually 6610 however due to the town's accounting the common areas are used as 6614 the retaining wall is actually u a common area of the condominium and we are obligated as board members to repair all common areas uh the wall was effectively destroyed U and it is a landscape maintenance wall that acts as a buffer between our raised property level and the beach itself it was put there in 1974 as near as I can tell I'm a second generation owner I came to the property visiting my father in 1984 and I can testify that the wall was there then we filed Island winds filed their um declaration at Lee County in 1974 so I can't imagine the wall was constructed between 24 between 74 and 84 so it's been there theoretically since we were babies babies we were and we are one of the oldest condominiums on the south end of the island uh back then per our survey there was 140 ft between that wall in the mean high water mark wow of the island today there is approximately 900 ft between the retaining wall and the mean high water mark this area of the beach has been blessed as a beach of accretion versus a beach of erosion um we're one of the few areas in Florida that have that claim because of the distance uh that has gathered over the last 50 years the wall literally is almost invisible as you stand at the mean high water mark being two in 2 feet or less below the sand on the beach uh the when the wall was destroyed by Ian we went to the town staff and we went to FD FD said after an EV ion event which is a hurricane and property is destroyed you as a property owner have the ability to armor the beach you can use that using rip wrap or landscape timbers and we said we already had landscape timbers there they said fine hire a coastal engineer and we'll walk it through so we hired Terrell Halland Associates a coastal engineering firm in Naples Florida they contacted FD DP fdp issued a standard field permit May 15th of last year and we then hired U Florida structural group to go in and begin filing the application so that the wall could be rebuilt per FD uh in working with staff they said we had to request a special exception which is why I'm here today asking for approval and I think staff for granting us the approval for the LPA board and with that they always say if you've got your order stop talking so with that I'm done talking and I request humbly request that we get our approval so that the wall can be done we do agree with the special exception are with the conditions that state if the wall is again destroyed we have to go through this process again which we are willing to do and I will take any questions thank you Dave any questions for Mr nusom Patrick Jane no Jim Noone John I don't have any either thank you very much uh oh don don oh no because he's uh he's recused okay so um any comments or any questions followup for staff or anything if not may I have a motion to approve this with the conditions as stated in the packet so moved okay I'll second whatever all right so we have a motion by Jim and a seconded by seconded by Jane is there any discussion on the motion um let's do a roll call vote Jim yes Shane I Pat I don uh John I Anita yes carries unanimously thank you Dave and thanks for all you do for the beach okay onward next case is V 202 400050 this is for 590 Carlos Circle this is a resolution of the Town Council of the town of Fort Meers Beach Florida approving approving with conditions or denying variance V 202 450 requesting two variances from LDC table 34-3 a variance of 16 ft from the required 25ft Street setback and a variance of 5 ft from the acquired 20ft rear setback located at 590 Carlos Circle providing for clarifications as necessary providing for conflicts of law scrier errors severability and providing for an effective date uh exp parte Pat none Jane none Jim none John none Don none I have none okay thank you staff Jason again for the record my name is Jason SMY with the planning and zoning Department today's variance request is for 590 Carlos Circle uh this is a request to build a new home after the previous structure on the property was damaged and eventually demolished post Ian excuse me uh the request as was mentioned in the introduction is for reduction of the front setback along caros circle of 16 ft they would be providing approximately 9 ft of set back at its closest point they are also requesting a reduction in the rear 20ft setback uh for primary structures of 5T so they will be providing a or requesting to provide a 15t rear setback uh stash review of the property uh was was based mainly on the size and area of the lot that's how we looked at it and that's what our analysis is based off of staff understands that this lot was sliced off at some point in the 70s into the area that you see today uh the lot is non-conforming for both depth and total area so the lot would be unbuildable under normal circumstances uh the applicant was offered initially the ability to rebuild under what we've called the cottage codes uh they decided that that wasn't going to be sufficient and it had taken a different tact and so what you see before you is their attempt to try and uh minimize the setbacks that they would need while still building a home that is two stories and larger than the original structure uh staff is open for any questions or concerns that you may have and the applicant representative Mr druick is available through Zoom today perfect thank you um John do you have any questions for Jason I don't how about you Jim I do not Jane what was the um previous footprint of this home uh I will defer to Mr drov lck the staff did not receive the internal um dimensions of the structure itself I apologize okay Pat questions no uh where okay where is Ken Fred Fred that's right gosh darn it I do it every time where's Fred he's on uh he's up here somewhere there he is can we B there he is let's make Don did you have any questions no questions okay thank you let's make Fred Big Fred do you know that I constantly confuse you and Ken we do we we have a lot of fun with that yeah I'm glad I I feel like an idiot every time I say it I just did it again anyway nice to see you good to see you and and I I deeply apologize for having to do this uh you know no problem and and accommodating me like this is really special I really appreciate the effort so can you before you even go into your presentation could you answer Jane's question what the Jane go ahead what was the previous footprint and as far as setbacks on this property um I do have that as a slide we don't we don't have uh a survey from that time but based on Aerials and other things we were able to estimate that the front Stan Carlos Street setback was 11 feet the rear was seven and the side was 5 foot I was five okay go ahead go ahead with your presentation Fred yeah that's I think slide three and we'll be able to show that all right firstly second so on the second slide so I'm representing uh yes oh good I can see it too um I'm representing Matt Wyber and uh Conrad that they bought the property and they're looking to rebuild um uh a unit there a house a two-story house that's up to current codes um as much as they can and and hope they improve some of the setbacks of the former Cottage um again my name is Fred Dr I did stand you didn't see me I did stand and swear and and and swear in um with my testimony all right next slide um so the the property itself is about a half mile uh I guess qu north of the uh of Time Square you can see the in the upper leftand corner there the the uh the location of the property um just one property off of a stero Boulevard all right next slide um so the overview is like Jason said um platted in 1970s it looks like split off from that lot to the south of it most likely um uh the lot area is 2700 Square ft uh average WS are about 51 ft to 52 ft um and then the depth 44t to a range of 64t is an odd polygon so the minimum lot size for a performing lot uh in the town of Fort Meers Beach is a width of 80 feet in an area of 4,000 square feet so it's a legally non-conforming um lot uh it's in the future land use mixed residential and Zone residential conservation next slide oh sorry let's let's go back there sorry this is where um at least on different things these are the numbers that I I thought were the most accurate for the setbacks so you can see there was a porch that extended and it came within 11 feet of the uh uh the RightWay line of the property line uh and then the S side side setb back was 5et the side set back on the North was obviously longer there was a driveway there and then the rear was uh 7 feet all right next slide so Jason said this that we're asking for a variance of 16 ft from the front uh it's required to have a 25t setback from the uh from the street and uh we're saying 9 ft it was 11 so we are asking for a little bit more on the front in order to give a little bit more on the back so the variance of only 5T from the back it's required to have a 20 foot setb and we're asking or showing a site plan that uh has 15 foot set back in the rear all right next one we'll look at the site plan and this will give you the details so if we conformed with the current the Blue Area the blue triangle in the middle would be what we would be allowed to build so it's approximately a 250 squ foot area that is uh would make a funny looking house um so those are the reasons for the two variances um now the I think it's a unique unique property and you guys know this how familiar are with this area but the the actual edge of pavement for Carlos circle is quite a ways away so the driveways here uh visually in the neighborhood much much longer and the setbacks appear to be over 25 ft even though we know they aren't with the RightWay so I do know one of the concerns from staff was then well now this that southern driveway which is the primary driveway that we're going to build that that Northern driveway is not necessarily required obviously um we wouldn't need that so that southern driveway is what we're really focusing on and and there's only 9 ft from the prop front property line but that underneath there is going to be maintained open um and be able to park clear underneath the house and that provides just about 45 ft of driveway length underneath the house so I think it would should be sufficient stacking for cars to not be um at least in the driveway part that's in the RightWay so it could get completely off of uh uh of RightWay property and have the cars uh fly contained on the site underneath with parking underneath the house uh Jason and staff has a condition on there that is to keep the underneath of the house open and uh we're we're good with that condition um we agree with the staff report and the recommendation uh to do that um next slide so I'm not going to go through each one of these I stand uh I stand with the staff on these that we we meet the criteria I think it's a legal non-conforming lot and these setbacks were improving the the current setbacks uh or the former setbacks of the former Cottage that was on the site um I think it's a better layout and uh I think we meet the criteria even on the strictest in the strictest way that this is kind of what a variance in the in the town is for to allow this kind of rebuild and to you know reestablish and meet the modern and the current code to the best of our ability um and uh so that's my conclusion I'm going to stand on the the recommendation of staff and and say they're correct and we believe this should be approved and I hope you agree thank you very much Fred any question any questions uh Pat not for me Jane well the only question I have is on slide four where it says the minimum lot size for conforming lots for width is 80 isn't it 75 yeah it's 45 width 80 depth so they they have enough width it's the it's the depth of the lot that would be make it non-conforming as well as the area lot okay so I was reading this as the minimum conforming lot width of 80 ft which that's not correct all right all right that's okay fine that's it nothing else nothing else Jim any questions no questions John uh I do uh so the variance one that's the 9 ft a 16t Varian is that actually to the edge of the decking as opposed to the building is is that the way to see that when I look at the uh plan it looks like it's a rectangular structure uh perhaps Mr perhaps Mr dck can give a little bit more detail about what's going to be over that front um area I don't I don't even know what uh what shape that is I was trying to think of it myself quadrangle qu quadrangle we'll run with that quadrangle so such thank God Almighty quadrangle so so the setback would be to either that deck or that home area staff staff looks at it just the same as far as the request um they they would be allowed additional protrusion in most circumstances if it were a first floor deck uh the reduction of the uh setbacks that you're providing today would effectively not allow them to protrude any further because they have to maintain a minimum of 10t setback so what you see is what you get here with these setbacks if it's deck if it's usable area it's still going to be the same request they won't get any extra goodies here um protruding into the front if they were offered uh this V if the variants were approved approved okay thank you looks like it goes to the piers okay any other questions for staff or for Fred any other questions okay if not uh discussion or may I have a motion please about public comment or public comment that would be a good idea too um does anybody have any comment on this case would you like to come up no you see I anticipated that Amy uh I will make a motion for approval with um staff's conditions thank you second you're all second I me Jo second it's an all it's an all second so uh the motion's made by Patrick and I'm going to take the second from John so uh any discussion on that motion any objection to that motion motion carries unanimously and Patrick your vote just you want do you want a roll call yes it would be Patrick hi John hi Don hi John and Jim hi and Jane I and I okay patch carries unanimously thank you Fred thank you by again the I can the next item is ordinance 248 it's amending the downtown Building stories this is an ordinance of the town of Fort Meers Beach Florida amending chapter 34 article 3 division 5 sections 34- 675 building size 21 change Building height from two stories to three stories for properties that front on Time Square and Bayfront pedestrian plazas the north side of First Street the south side of Aero Boulevard between old San Carlos and uh Boulevard and the main pedestrian Crossing and two change Building height from two stories to three stories for properties that front on Lagoon Street Crescent Street 1 2 third and fifth streets east of skybridge only providing for severability codification scribers errors conflicts of Law and an effective date that you know this title requires a map it's it's it's it's goofy but um okay any expar Communications on this we don't have to do because we are now in our legislative okay I apologize for that no no problem okay um Sarah good morning Sarah propes with Community Development uh the ordinance language that is for you today is to resolve a code issue that we had recognized previously uh the downtown zoning district has several areas uh that allow 30 ft of height but and that's 30t of height above base flood elevation so you'd measure from base flood elevation to where you measure on the roof line um but it would it limits the stories in the building to two stories the stories count the ground level so that means you get 30 ft of height and only one story above Bas flood elevation so it doesn't work um so this code is to resolve this issue that we had recognized previously um however there had not been any need for a change because there was no construction happening in that area now um you know people want to know what they have the ab the ability to work with and this needs to be resolved so uh the language before you would allow three stories which is two stories over flood and a total of 30 ft between flood uh base flood elevation and the uh height that you measure on the roof um which is a different place depending on what type of roof style you have but um this puts it in line with pretty much everything else in town that those areas that you had read those certain in the Bayfront and Time Square all of those were treated differently than the rest of the town okay questions for Sarah John do you have any questions no I don't how about you Jim no I do not Jane no Pat nope Sarah Sarah and I started this discussion via email what I don't know is why we involve stories at all why don't we simply make it clearer and just say it's 30t over flood period if somebody wants two stories or whatever I think it gets almost confusing to say uh you've got 30 you've got three stories and 30 ft um I I I just I don't know does that seemed clear to you just to have 30 ft no I've I've had concern about that discrepancy forever okay and and I think we've discussed this previously and so it's it's it's good to see that it's coming before us um I would be yeah I would be happy where we did away with the stories also so you know I mean it it's because um it I kept trying to think of what the glitch would be for this what what what could be the possible Fallout from eliminating that and I couldn't come up with anything because the bottom line is you're not going to build on the ground floor you're going to build from base flood up and that's where you have your 30 ft now if you put why they flood proof in Time Square no but this applies to the rest of of downtown also yeah all those other streets so you could drive blood proof so maybe get four stories right what did you say Don I said you could get four stories I mean that's the only risk right if somebody says we don't want more than three stories three four if you can squeeze three within that 30 ft uhhuh which in most cases especially at Time Time Square Your Design flood will be above your base flood which will squeeze how much you can sit in there so we leave it the same we leave it as is what do you think Don are you not yeah what are your thoughts on this leave the stories in or take the stories out yeah I just leave them in leave them in okay any other comments for Sarah or questions for Sarah um okay I'm going to open up the public comment anybody want to make any comments on this okay no public comment um I I no nobody has anything else to say I'm going to make a motion to approve this change I think it's super important for uh for I think having the stories in there is important important okay so motion to um to approve the change to chapter 34 second so there's a motion by Anita and seconded by John any further discussion on this uh all in favor I roll call variance darn it I'm off my game John you're uh your vote I'm an I don hi Jim hi Jane hi and Patrick hi thank you motion carries unanimously um I'd also like is there any chance that this can be on the council's next meeting it it is going to be okay Bravo so this will be on the council's next meeting all right here we go um for first reading for for first reading yes it's an ordinance so for first reading Steve do you understand that I'm just looking at Steve Malik his family has owned the pla for for forever uh so this will go to uh the council for their first meeting next week but it's a first reading so they'll do it next week and then they'll do it again okay all right it's next week the second second one will be the first week of uh first week of May okay you're welcome next item is moss Marine CPA 20230 152 this is 450 Harbor Court for 445 Harbor Court 441 Harbor Court 436 Harbor Court 435 Bonita street street and 438 Bonita Street this is an ordinance of the town of Fort Meers Beach Florida approving or denying a comprehensive planned future land use map Amendment for properties located at 450 Harbor Court 445 Harbor Court 441 Harbor Court uh 436 Harbor Court 435 Bonita Street and 438 Bonita Street Fort Meers Beach from Marina 3.5 acres and mixed residential 1 acre to pedestrian commercial containing 4.53 Acres generally identified as strap numbers 24-4 6-23 W3 000027.00 do I need to read all of these okay 24 - 46- 2343 W3 - 00262 24- 4623 w3030 b020 24 46 23 W 3-30 b. 0190 I want to start reading this in Spanish 2446 23 w330 c.6 2446 or 23 w330 c0040 2446 23 w330 a011 0 portions of Harbor Court and bune street right of way providing for strier errors and an effective date okay good job thank you um okay did you repeat Sarah Sarah good morning Sarah Pro with Community Development freand Florida Holdings LLC owner of the property and Jim Inc agent for PE agent of the owner have applied for a comprehensive plan future land use map Amendment for the properties at 450 Harbor Court 445 Harbor Court 441 Harbor Court 436 Harbor Court Court 435 Bonita Street 438 Bonita Street the request is to change the future land use district from 450 Harbor Court wait the request is to change the future land use district for four Harbor Court 450 Harbor Court which includes two properties currently known as Moss Marina from Marina to pedestrian commercial and to change the future Lane use district for 445 Harbor Court 441 Harbor Court 436 Harbor Court 435 Bonita Street and 438 Bon street from mixed residential to pedestrian commercial the marina future land use allows a building intensity of 1.5 F and does not include any density the mixed residential future land use allows a building intensity of 1.5 and a density of six dwelling units per acre um also this is in the platted overlay so any existing uh density remains so they could have up to 10 units if 10 units were there uh the proposed future land use of pedestrian commercial allows a building intensity up to 2 and A2 and a density of six this compreh comprehensive plan future land use map Amendment will need to be followed by a zoning amendment to allow additional development on these properties the applicant has applied for a CPD which is not before you today we have received several letters of objection for this request they should be in your packet the uh staff is available for any questions you may have and the applicant is also here and has a presentation thank you Sarah M John questions for Sarah uh none at this time Jim no Don do you have questions for Sarah no questions at this time Jane not at this time pat none uh question do we do X parte on legislative items um no no no input no I mean Patrick excuse me you can if you want um to share whatever information you have gotten outside of this meeting would you like xart yeah I'd like to to do xart cuz I I think we we've also received some comments from the public saying questioning how well this has been vetted and this is the process we are going through the process right now and in my mind this is getting fully vetted um but I I have talked to numerous of my neighbors I've been to the site I've seen the presentations and I've talked numerous times with uh the applicant team Jane I really haven't talked to anybody except when way back when when we had shet or what however you ever say that okay shetes um Jim any expar on this case just general comments from residents how about you John you know just the same I'm familiar with the site and that's up okay Don do you have you had any expart communication just way back when the original Concepts uh spoke with uh I spoke with Mr Inc and Mr fre Amy what are you pointing out also you have two emails that I passed out to you this morning about this yes yes we've received them um I also have attended all the things I known this family for 40 years well more than that because Ben and I went to uh or I went to school with them uh Hank zuba will love hearing that um so um I'm very familiar with this um I you know it's interesting because I think we're all commenting on how familiar we think we are with a CPD not with the request that's in front of us exactly and um so um two separate things but anyhow we'll move through that right now so would you like to make your application ma'am have you been accepted as an expert in your field well I am legal counsel today and not an expert okay well legal counsel Madam chair members of the board for the record Jenna person mikica attorney for the applicant Freeland Florida Holdings LLC I'm a partner with strahorn person mikica and fiser it's so nice to see you today here Jenna thank you madam chair it's great to be on the beach I'm as well as sixth generation Lee County resident and and very familiar with the property and and have seen the changes and it's just so exciting to be here and be part of a project that looks towards our future and with that I'll kick off the presentation for CP PA in the back anyone wants one thank you here you need two more up here [Applause] no um do we need one more pass that on we need one more Jim we can share two more but it's presentation that he just for the record so what you've passed out is the same as the presentation you're going to be given that is correct okay great so um Mr sedith will be able to [Music] watch thank you thank you madam chair as Miss Pro presented the request before you is a request to amend the future land use map of the comprehensive plan of the town of Fort Meers Beach and while this board understands that what's in front of us is the CPA application and and not a rezoning application I think it's it's important to pause for a moment and and explain that to the folks who might be watch watching the folks who have commented on details of a specific project that those details aren't being presented or in front of of the the planning committee today what's in front of the planning committee is a question regarding the vision the long-term Redevelopment vision for the this nearly five acres um of of property on the beach and and this Vision will set forth how this property proceeds in the future and this Vision will permit the opportunity to then proceed with the resoning to then come back and have the opportunity to present details for a proposed project to have the opportunity to hear the more uh feedback from the public on a project and the opportunity for this board to consider details of a project but those details aren't in front of the board today in front of the board today is a request to change the future land use of seven parcels and I apologize on the in the presentation we have a scrivener's error that says eight Parcels but the request is to change the future land use of seven Parcels to join the existing future land use that three of the parcels currently have which is pedestrian commercial and this change uh currently the majority of the property is designated Marina this change to pedestrian commercial will permit the opportunity to Redevelopment with a mix of uses so the question before the board is do we maintain the 1999 vision for this property a vision that has as a predominant use an industrial private marine or do we look towards the future post Ian and adopt a new vision for this property a vision that would permit the continuation of the marina uses but the addition of a mixed use development that that would open up hundreds of linear feet of the Bayfront to the public it's now my honor to introduce the team members who will be presenting to you all today the owner and developer Freeland Florida Holdings LLC on behalf of the owner we have Ben and Thomas Freeland well we have the entire Freeland family here myself as L use attorney along with my partner Bruce strahorn and we have Mr James Inc uh from Inc engineering who will be providing planning and Engineering testimony uh Madam chair as a matter of housekeeping I know we're in a legislative hearing but I would like to Tender Mr Inc as an expert for purposes of this hearing has been accepted as an expert many times so far so yes thank you thank you madam chair in terms of the order of the presentation in a moment I'm going to invite Mr Freeland to come up and share the owner's perspective you know the Freeland have owned this property since the early 80s and and know the beach almost just as well as you all do and and care about his present and care about its future so I'm going to invite Mr Freeland up and then following Mr Freeland Mr Inc will come up and provide expert testimony and address all of the um issues that were set forth in the staff report as well as the overall consistency with Comprehensive plan so Madam chair at this time I'd like to invite Mr Freeland up thank you very much thank you all right well this is the boring part of the presentation but uh good morning and Madam chair uh Town staff want to thank you guys for your dedication and commitment um uh to the island and I think most importantly is really the vision going forward and today we're talking about a future land use and this is the time to put your 20 30y year hat on and really think down the road this is not about a today issue is about the possibilities for the future um you know we're excited to be here this application actually went in it's been in front of the uh Town staff since August so this is our first hearing and we're excited to be here and present to you um and um I think you said your six Generations we've got six Generations uh three here uh today with us um we moved to the southwest Florida in the mid 60s um have owned multiple businesses uh car dealerships uh hotels restaurants boat manufacturing you can go on and on and M Marina was purchased in the early 80s I was still in high school and you know I think right out of the shoot became one of the top Criss craft dealerships in the world I think is actually number one um he brought the bigm casino boats I think uh Madam chair you were town mayor at the time there was a lawsuit involved and the rights for that Casino boat were were validated and in court and they actually had two Casino boats there holding 400 passengers a piece operating for 17 years um running twice a day 365 days a year wow out of this property so that right exists and had operated for a long period of time and was a great neighbor and contributor to the island in fact that's probably the highest request we I get is when you bring in the casino boats back so I think you know we have a proven track record of being a good neighbor being you know a good uh commercial uh property owner and and and working well with the neighborhood um you know I took this over in 2020 for the family so um and started thinking about Marina those buildings were built in the 50s and 60s and they were aging out and I was thinking 5 7 10 years what are we going to do with the property and as we all know you know we we then were able to bring in the uh Coast Guard at a temporary um location for them while they rebuilt and you know we're thinking about what are we going to do when the Coast Guard moves out how what are we going to transition you know the Upland to and we all know September 28th hit and all the ples you know that were down the road became a day plan we lost four out of six structures on the property um we were in the next day you know with a team from moss and rebuilding with the Coast Guard trying to get their operations back up you know Mission critical to get you know to save lives save structur save uh assets and while I'm sitting there and I think I've mentioned this when we were at another talk you know I'm just watching the tide go out and homes fly by and you know personal belongings come back and you're like man you know what what can we do and be part of this and uh you start thinking about the property tough time yeah you know it was and and you know and I see the property and and with all the buildings gone and you're like wow this is an impressive piece of property how can this be part of the downtown district and you know and I actually in our shetes was talking with um Mr SP spikowski and I think he had requested that we actually were to be part of the downtown district originally and and I think the lawsuit had just settled with the casino boats and so I don't that George just wasn't in the mood at that point to revisit land use at that time so actually just say hey I'm going to hold off and stay where we are so this is a chance to kind of bring it into into the fold um so you know we we really start looking and and put together a world class team I think to really think about it and this is this what's in front of you today is just step one it's to create possibilities do you see this as part of the downtown district do you see activating the Bayfront to be as valuable as the gulf front and and now you got Margaritaville whatever the new Time Square is going to be the new pier Old St Carlos Boulevard very Dynamic but there's really no public access to the Bay you've got 50 60 ft of veterans uh Bayside park now and maybe a little bit under the bridge that's it everything else you've got to go to our Marina be a customer you need to be in a restaurant and be a customer customer you really don't have public access to the Bay other than those few feet this is an opportunity for you to see a vision that allows us to come to you in the future and say hey how can we incorporate our property into that without that we're an industrial Marina driving forklifts up and down the sea while dropping boats spraying Barnacles off painting bottoms you know we can have some accessory uses I think you've seen uh rud shrimp here you know we can already have restaurants and and bars we can have access for uses but they minor the real major use has to be industrial Marina and when that's a dominant use we can't really open that up to the public we can't open up the Baywalk we need true mixed use and keep the valuable parts of the marina as part of it and really open up the access to the water to allow that to happen and a lot of the benefits and I think one of the questions keeps coming up in in this discussion will be what's the benefit to the U to the uh community and those benefits can't happen if we're not included in that future land use when we say industrial Marina we can have a few accessory uses but that you have to go to that restaurant you got to go to rud shrimp specifically we can't let you just wander around through the the forklifts um you know today we we allow the farmers market to come on the property just to demonstrate what that the possibilities could be if I'm really an industrial Marina I don't really have a need for a free Farmers Market on the property I don't have anything else for it to benefit we dropping boats in the water for customers and putting shrimp and bait Wells and doing different things so when we have a mixed use then we we want to welcome uh farmers markets and nonprofits and fundraisers and fishing tournaments and I think we tried to demonstrate that since the uh the hurricane to show you what the possibilities could be and how uh incredible that property is and how valuable it could be to the town and I think in a draw and and I think that access is totally different than the beach everybody loves the beach it's the the main draw drawing card but you go out there and you look at the water you see the sunset you don't experience the water if we open up the Bayfront that's where people get on boats they get their feet wet they see the wildlife they see the dolphins they go on cruises they fish kayak this is what the possibilities can be with this future land use without it I just have a private Marina dry stock storage wet slips uh maybe a restaurant or two a couple small retail shops and we control that and that's what it'll be um so this is a vision for you to think think down the road um let's see I talked about Civic and um and the transportation options trans you know everybody talks about traffic as a marina right now we are approved for casino cruise ships right we've had 800 passengers twice a day going through that property coming in the residential area and going back out for 17 years so we've already have the rights to some of that it's created and we've been able to make it work with mixed juice we can create additional parking opportunities we tie in now to The Pedestrian um sidewalks and bike traffic Lanes off the Vol St Carlos um water taxi opportunities so there's a lot of things that can happen in transportation with mixed use if I'm a private Marina I really don't need bicycles driving into the marina I don't need people walking into the marina right so with mixed use and I have multiple things and and density of those type of uses we think it can really draw in and create and leverage what you guys have invested in the downtown district it's a great Street grid down there with sidewalks and great traffic so we think we can create that magnet to the Bay we can leverage what's already out there um you know so you know I guess to sum it up is this is a future land use discussion it's a 2030 year Vision um I think we've got a great great plan we've been a great Community um Citizen and we're we're excited about U working with you going forward any questions thank you Ben any questions for Ben at this moment thank you Ben Madam chair at this time we'd invite up Mr Inc to provide his expert testimony thank you Jenna Ben Madam chair board my name is James ZK I am the carpet bagger of our group I only go back five generations not six um we are Property Owners we have a summer home or had a summer home we're putting back what you're here today my part is to discuss the planning how does this work how does this work in the in this situation of we're asking for this land use change the way I boil it down being from nor for miners is the comp plan is the ceiling you can't go above the ceiling lot can happen between here and the 30,000 foot level wait Jim hold on a second is being from North Fort Meyers sort of like I'm going to explain it to you like a fourth grader yes you have to be really local to get the north for Myers B insult the board because you guys understand what I'm talking I think any of us are from North for Meers but having friends there I'm go ahead I'm I'm kind of for for the public you know that that is listening and is watching I'm going to try to boil this down where it makes sense cuz as we all know comp plans zoning development orders I mean it's 5,000 pages of rules and regulations and and guides and what we're doing today is just step one step one is the comp plan right now we sit as a Marina and mixed use and pedestrian commercial as a unified piece so we got three land uses three land uses is hard to develop with three different land uses on the property we have the the the big imp part that that Ben talked about that I'm not going to go into real big detail it's it's just sort of out there but our our major thing is we're a Marina and as a marina we need to do something different current comprehensive plan this is this is a extraction right out of the plan and if and if you look close enough at it it it shows the blue is the marina the hatched is the mixed use and then the red orangish red is The Pedestrian commercial and The Pedestrian commercial goes one lot west of the mixed juice there was a house there that was in pedestrian commercial due to unified ownership which is why we're here today this unified ownership we have this piece of property we'd like to get it a unified future land use it was a marina hurricane Ian hit has been explained four out of the six buildings are gone Marina was built quite a long time ago it was actually first established in the 60s so a lot of the buildings including the two that are standing there are reaching the end of their lifestyle so something has to be done differently and the question is what has to be done we're looking at because of Ian the opportunity lost thousands of beds you've lost lots of commercial uses the rebuilding process is going to come back so looking at this piece with 900 ft of Shoreline is its highest and best use for the town strictly a marina or is a mixed juice an appropriate and better look in in the future we cannot do a mixed juice in the Marina District or the mixed residential it's not an option so our other option is we have to find a land use that is compatible well pedestrian commercial is uh a large part of of what's there that is the downtown that is the area that goes goes across from lenal Park comes up Old St Carlos goes south to just past Avenue picks up everything that is the node is the core you've been through a lot of these proposed comprehensive plan amendments recently so we talk about the nodes of the three districts of downtown and red coconut and Santini Plaza so this is the core so the question that we're asking today is 20 30 years from now is pedestrian commercial appropriate for where the town wants to go we believe it is we have to come to consensus that you have to believe it is also and then the details of that can be worked out in the zoning in the development order in the permitting but those processes and why we're doing it separately those processes are incredibly expensive to process a project of this size I mean this is potentially a a $200 million project so to process a project of this size is extremely expensive with Consultants with designs with time so we're just asking right now of saying does the town believe that mixed juice is an appropriate use on this property all the other details come later and and what you see right now on the graphic it shows the existing of what we are and it shows the propose of what we want to go and then the parts that are on Third Street that are not colorized they're already pedestrian commercial so that's not part of this application is my three minutes up we get people from North for Meers double time now get the the discussion of what the compant says and why we believe we're consistent with that objective 3D Time Square revitalization stimulate the downtown core area that is what we've been doing in before in with some of the stuff in the downtown Margaritaville came on board which was really the last and we started that our question is can we be part of that is that appropriate objective 4A I I I put in there specifically small town character this is kind of a a far-reaching vision of we smalltown character we've had numerous numerous discussions of we don't want to be Miami Beach we don't want to be Fort Lauderdale we want to be smalltown character can smalltown character be projects like Rosemary's beach in the Panhandle Seaside in the Panhandle where it's a a collection of buildings that operate as mixed juice so it's still we think we can be compatible with that again we have to when we do the rest of it should we go beyond this we have to still justify that we're still stay consistent with the comprehensive plan here's the two land uses Marina this is this is right out of the comp plan the marina shows the uses very very limited to a Marina and accessory uses accessory uses is not defined in the comp plan it's not really defined in the Land Development code of what accessory uses are but I think it's that that I'll know it when I see it kind of comment of a Marina has to stay primary use we're requesting to go to pedestrian commercial because that opens up the opportunity of mixed use pedestrian commercial has mixed use and it has a ceiling it has a a fairly high ceiling of an F AR 2.5 and uh densities of six units per Acer and the highest ceiling and yeah it's it's a high ceiling it's a High bar Margaritaville has that 2.5 they didn't come anywhere close to it when it got through the system that's the way the system works is the town goes to the state and say this is the maximum we can do then as you go through the process all the subsequent hearings and permits you define what is appropriate for that site so in this instance we pick pedestrian commercial really that's the only land use we can pick the boulevard doesn't work the Arts and theater doesn't work you know pedestrian commercial if you want to do mixed use is the only available option and it's a continuation of one of the largest commercial districts that you have on the island so it's just that continuation of what's there is what we're asking for gets down to the big three this is what we see in in all our emails and the talk on the add is the big three density intensity and height and traffic well density is not really where we're going because we do have a companion plan development that is working out there but is not ready to go so we're really looking at the big three commercial intensity F ARS as I just mentioned pedestrian commercials 2.5 nobody on the island that I know of unless it's a real small property is anywhere close to 2.5 but you can be there again underneath the ceiling zoning item Building height Building height again you just are talking about cleaning up a a height restriction two story three story there are Provisions in the comp plan that may allow you to go higher than that may again we're at the ceiling that's not a discussion of today that's a site specific traffic impact um the policy is real uh I think interesting in policy 7 J2 it says a thorough traffic impact statement is not required except in rezoning and major development well we have a traffic impact statement that shows a fairly intense project that we believe meets the requirements of of 7 I2 the only actual rule in the comprehensive plan is and and from an engineer standpoint I'm not sure how the town got there but it's 1,300 vehicles per hour for four consecutive hours on the North Street down Island we're not down Island we're right at the base of the bridge majority traffic that'll come to our site will come off the bridge go to our site leave our site go off the island minor traffic would go up and down the island but the majority would just come down that's how the casino boat worked came crossed the bridge went downtown parked left so from a traffic standpoint and the height and the commercial intensity we believe our request is is within the bounds of the comprehensive plant again the biggest thing we're asking for is that mixed use we need to do we should do the vision that we believe and we hope you believe is mixed use on this site is possible some of the other parts are in there again there's a whole list of here these are goals and objectives of Motel density and ground floor and Alternate taxi modes those are all discussion points of when you do a development you have to address these you can't be counter to these you just have to address these how does it fit you know should we have a water taxi should we arrive without a car those kind of things are goals again it's the ceiling and we're just asking for going into the mixed juuse from an engineering standpoint we do have to have adequate capacity to do what pedestrian commercial could possibly do we have letters on files from Lee County Utility for sanitary sewer that says they have capacity potable water the town's consultant tetr has a report in your package that says there should be adequate water surface water environmental resources is a development oriented that we have to meet these standards Jim could I ask you a question what was your question to these people I always find it interesting when letters like that are included because we're only reading the answer what was the question you asked them the question we answer specifically like in sanitary sewer they asked how much do you think you're going to need MH and it was I think it was 107,000 gallons per day but they're all responding all those letters responded to your potential CPD they didn't respond just to this map amendment I found that very curious correct because that is where a letter of availability goes and that's why they went together so we had have to give them a number and they say yes that's the number and then the last paragraph is subject to changes subject to this subject to that okay to go where I may be reaching here but it's kind of go to where you go is where you're thinking in a comprehensive plan it's like the F 2.5 that's what's allowable you could do more it is potentially if you maxed out everything that's allowable in the comprehensive plan which I don't know of anybody that does you could create a lot what what would be there on this site are we talking 27 McDonald's yeah you could you could put I mean that would fit within the F 2.5 as ludicrous as it sounds you've hit the nail on the on the head right now yeah this change doesn't let us know what we'll be on that site that you've just hit the nail on the head and I would you know Ben I almost called you about this last night uh you you've just hit the nail on the head and why I think uh so many people have reacted to this right now because though we've heard about the Arch's CPD for the last year and a half and people have been excited they've said it's too much it's too whatever but I think by and large there has been some support for that for that project but this is like a blank sheet this this is the opportunity to do something different correct it's a blank sheet it's it's it's just it's us saying we're going to change this I'm sorry you guys for interrupting here but I just had to say that at that moment because that was like that's that's the nail on the head right there and no no no no you guys please please please please please don't do actually today it's not a blank sheet because if this moves forward we have Marina zoning that is our restraint we can't do anything without resoning do you agree with that Sarah they would have The Pedestrian commercial but they would have the application of the zoning that's still there so commercial Marina and uh M no it's not mixed residential it's uh MC uh no residential conservation RC sorry um so they could do what's allowed in those zoning districts still but then that wouldn't really match up with the future land use District they would have to do something I apologize for the interruption go ahead that's that's valid I mean that's that's a valid question well just you know I'd like to comment on what you said I'll Reserve that till later but I I'd like to address that okay later on okay go ahead Jim sorry about that I mean what you said is absolutely valid is it appears we're getting all this entitlement of 2.5 F ARs and and and everything but in reality we're not because the underlying zoning District actually controls the use of the land and unless we ask for what you all saw and I and I can make the statement in fact of we went through that shet process we invited everybody we got all kinds of information we created that Vision we created what the town has seen that is still our intent but if we can't be pedestrian commercial none of that can happen I mean that's where we are Step One is we got to get the land use right if we don't get the land use right the rest of it can't be done so I I understand where you think it's a blank check but I'm saying there are constraints and there are Reigns that are in the code and in the entitlements today that keep us from oh we got it we can't go put a shovel in the ground tomorrow or if this gets approved when Council uh weighs in and and if they agree to see the vision that we're we're painting and say pedestrian commercial is an appropriate land use we can't put a shovel in the ground without going through more public hearings and more steps more permitting but the the argument then is if you get approval today I think this is what an need is saying that the argument for rezoning is you are now bringing the zoning in compliance with the comprehensive plan my argument would be the town has joined us in the vision that a mixed use should go there and the zoning is our vision of of what that is which has to be vetted through here as a recommend recommending board and through Town Council to do the I'll run back to North Fort Myers again do the sausage making of working on the buffers and the setbacks and the Heights and the F ARs and the uses and sound and all of those issues that go with a development but making pedest commercial just gives you the ability to be a mixed use development and we are not creating an inconsistency with the marina because in pedestrian commercial it says it even it's almost like they rode into I don't know if it was our property or or a different property they rode into the opportunity to have Marina uses in mixed commcial you on a limited basis it's limited right it's still would have to be a marina right 100% but it allows those uses we're not creating an inconsistency with the marina so the engineering part to go back to that part we we've got letters from all the people um we have to meet all the requirements um you know fire protection is like okay they they were in the shet process they work with us in the shet process the the fire department so got to be the point of yeah we like your picture it sounds pretty good send us actual engineering drawings and we'll approve it or show you what you got to change to get to an approval so those kind of issues so the engineering parts of it we can meet all those requirements of the complant want to go into a little bit on the staff report because the staff has recommend denial which I think when I got it it took me about 30 seconds to call Sarah and say okay explain it to me so what I'm going to try to do is just talk about our part of what she said I'm not trying to say what she said but here's our understanding of what's there in the commentary there was neighborhood compatibility in the commentary of the complain there is two sections that shows subdistricts of the island one of us shows us in the core area one of us shows us on the North End that is a discrepancy in the comp plan our feeling is we're not technically in the bowridge par North End Vision because that's the estera boulevard that comes down to Time Square this is this is an out parcel that's you got to go through downtown to get to this whole area of Third Street bonan Harbor so I think the the upper map that this should have been in the core area is the correct map so we think we do have neighborhood compatibility from a visioning standpoint uh mixed juice development you can do a lot of things on mixed juice and and buffers and and the like to take care of your neighbors to you know protect the neighbor from from influx of unintended uh consequences of of mixed juuse development the idea would be to move intense development farther away put buffers and and lower intensities over on the other side so again this can all be done and this is all back into we're in the CPD again of explaining that and the general conditions walkability and bicycle needs this was this was interesting I mean right now from our property there's no sidewalks to Old St Carlos but in this property we have direct access to Old St Carlos Third Street intersection we have access of uh First Street Extension in front of Marina Village to our property there's legal access to to to build a road there so the property really is fronted on first streak access third streak access minor sidewalks when you do development you're on old St Carlos so we do have the walkability and bicyc IC needs Maybe not today but are not a hurdle that we can't meet in in the development process traffic impacts I already stated it the traffic impacts the thorough traffic generation is in the rezoning and major developments we have one it is in this record so we feel that we've met the traffic impacts but it's at a level a fairly intense level that is is what there that yes it can be meet met and and that's a requirement not the highest juice but can it be met can we stay within the bounds of the comprehensive plan with reasonable development and and we think we've demonstrated that we can stay within the grounds of reasonable development and then 4 C10 which which is a subjective nature of a legislative item is Will these increases clearly in the public interest and that's where we go to what we've been saying numerous times through all of our presentation is today we're Marina future land use Define Marina pedestrian commercials lot bigger uses but when you sit here and look at the Town 10 years now 15 years from now is a mixed use development of whatever that might be that gets we present you agree Council agrees it gets through the process is that mixed use in the vision of what should be on the beach in 20 years so in summary what we're basically saying is we're just here for an opportunity the opportunity that we're asking for is the opportunity to do mixed juice I mean that is the opportunity yeah we have a 1.5 F today The Pedestrian commercial is 2.5 but it's always subject it says up to we have other opportuni so the vision is is this a mixed use which is what we're presenting today and how does it impact on on the future I mean the town is going through through a process to update this 1999 there are some things that if it goes through as written I know it's still a long way to go and there's still a lot of we would have to make sure that when that's adopted which is somewhere down the road that it doesn't revert back to Marina that's that's what we're asking for for there so after all all that dis testimony and all discussion what I'm basically saying is as an expert in planning a civil I think we have presented a case that changing to pedestrian commercial is an appropriate vision and can be within the strains and within the Reigns of the rest of the development approval process is in order to be approved thank you thank you Jim Madam chair I'm just going to ask Mr Inc a couple follow-up questions and and and one question that came to mind is even if this CPA is approved we maintain the marina zoning right and we're limited by by that zoning until the owner comes moves forward the pending application or if there was a different application in the future to rezone the property but Mr Inc when that CPD application comes forward or if any resoning application comes forward there's correct me if I'm wrong but there's no magic approval under the comp plan that well now you have a mix of uses that's permitted in pest and Commercial you can do this but there's a whole host or list of different comp plan policies and objectives um that you would have to show consistency with from compatibility to walkability to the environment is can you explain that a little more again yes that is correct when a when a CPD moves forward you have to do a comp plan narrative consistency and that's where you scrub every chapter every little sentence in the comp plan and if it pertains to what you're trying to do you address it and you say that we are consistent with the complant because you can't have a zoning inconsistent with the complant it just that's a nogo and then Mr Inc when we're talking about the public interest and public benefit moving on that this C CPA change or future land use change could permit how much Public Access is there today on the property with the forklifts moving around and having an industrial Marina there's approximately 900 linear feet of Shoreline that is on the marina property right now and as Ben mentioned earlier um you have the the veterans Bayfront Park is 50 ft and then you have I think it's a little more than 50 ft but you have some do property underneath the bridge and that is the only public access to the island on the Bayside and if you look at the whole island you got the bound house and not much else has got public access to the bay and the bay is is to me far more interesting than the golf of seeing the the animals and the Dolphins and the birds and you know all of those kind of items and then Mr Inc I if the future land use was changed the vision was changed that would permit a rezoning and and permit a future mix juuse development that activates the project what type of Public Access could that potentially open up to the town I mean as we presented and and it's on the website is an idea is a vision which we're trying to move forward it's it's we believe it's real it's the opportunity 900 ft of a a public access walkway plazas to have interaction to have people come and visit and and just be able to walk down the beach and and visionwise as as a planner you can Envision if we can work out you know the details can be worked out this whole Waterfront goes from mananas in all the way to Moss Marina and you could create a a walkway a river walk is as as you say for almost a quarter mile thank you Mr Inc thank you madam chair members I I'll just conclude with with a short legal summary and I would ask me before I forget that we have time to potentially reut any evidence that's presenting dur during public comment thank you but from a legal standpoint and I think it's on many of your minds is you know man I I I wish we could see the CPD first that it was here for approval but legally we cannot do that because legally the CPD is not consistent with the mixed residential and the marina future land use designation we have to ask from a legal standpoint for this future land use to change first before you can even con before you can approve the rezoning of the CPD and that's why we're here on the master planning Vision element first and if the town doesn't agree with that Vision or that Master planning then it's not worth putting the public and folks through hours of debate over a details of a project that we can't bring to you until the future land use is modified but at the same time your code your comprehensive plan puts in Pro protections that uh future land use change doesn't automatically Grant you a list of property rights right that's the guiding plan you're still regulated by your zoning in that case we would we maintain the marina zoning until we move forward the CPD to you for approval uh Madam chair members of the board we presented competent substantial evidence today that went through point after point of the compatibility sidewalks traffic public benefits that addressed the the staff report and met our burden to present competent substantial evidence to show consistency with the comprehensive plan and we asked for your favorable support support and recommending approval of this future land use change again this is a this is a question regarding where should this property move forward in the future what is the vision of this property for the future there's a whole host of public benefits that this property will open up to the town if it's able to move forward with the mixed use Redevelopment and Madam chair members thank you for your patience with us through our presentation and we're here to address any additional questions thank you very much um John any questions for the applicant are you want to sit for a bit I'd like to hear other people's perspective with more experience at this point John uh Jim any questions for the applicant I'll Reserve uh comments till we finish Jane questions it's a lot to take in um and it I I do feel that you know the public seems to feel that we're putting the cart before the course without knowing what is to come and opening ourselves up to something that we may not understand the vision totally until it's out of the bag but um I I want to hear more discussion Patrick um no questions for the applicant at this time um if appropriate I'd like to ask uh questions from staff yes certainly so I think I think Jane and Anita some you know piggybacking on some of your comments about you know are we I think you said Clean Slate but I think you meant are we opening this up to a kind of a unlimited potential development and and I think you know it would help us to have staff explain is this the proper process a of you amend the comp plan then you go to Zoning for details and also is it common practice to have a future land use map that allows for way more capacity than what actually gets built so it is common practice in my experience that throughout Florida and all the surrounding jurisdictions you have future land use categories that allow a lot more intense commercial use and allow a lot more um potential residential density uh through the future land use category however what you see on the ground is way less than what that potential is and that that is common practice that that's why we have a process where we establish a ceiling and then we have a very onerous process that you have to go through zoning to request more doesn't mean you'll get the maximum you have to demonstrate and that's why we have a very extensive Land Development code you have to demonstrate consistency with the code in the cop plan and the fact that you have more capacity on your future land use map is not a given that that will be allowed or that will be developed and perfect example right now is look at Old San Carlos Boulevard the entire downtown has a few an F of 2.5 are we even close to meeting that today and that's been in place for many many years so I look at it from the standpoint of we can we can look at a change in future land use category as an opportunity and we can discuss what that opportunity is and Define that or we can approach it with fear and just shut it down and and not address it because we are afraid of what that maximum potential is and I think right now especially after the storm and a community trying to rebuild I think we should really look at things from an opportunity standpoint and not from a fear standpoint so Patrick there there's I have no fear of this at all that that wasn't the premise of my comment uh it it is the link between the um the map Amendment and the Freeland families CPD that we have been listening to for the last year and um I I want there to be a link between the two pieces I want there to be a you coming back up Ben address that you can so you know my take you know getting the cart before the horse I don't believe this is getting the cart before the horse we want to be part of the downtown district and the Redevelopment regardless of what happens with that CPD this is not they're they're not married in my opinion I I want to be part of that going forward if when we get done with that CPD process if it doesn't work out I still want to be part of the downtown district I have to rebuild that Marina if you don't get me into the mixed use development I'm I'm I have to come back and just put boat barns up and forklifts and be industrial Marina and put a couple accessory uses in and and I'm done if you include me now in this regardless if you we are approved or can do the CPD with what you're seeing with the Arches I still want to be in the in I want this flu this future land use so we can be part of the downtown Redevelopment and The Rebirth of the island I don't see that they have to be adjoined in fact I'm almost certainly shouldn't be this gives us no more rights to we're still Marina today if we go through that CPD in a month or whenever it does hit comes through the process we might get to the end of that and it may or may not happen and I'm okay with that but I still want to be part of the downtown district because then I got to go to plan B and plan B if I'm a mixed use I have ability to really still create something special if you stick me where I'm at then I I promise you what it's going to be it's going to be kind of what it was a little newer a little fresher but you know Ben you've said that many times and I think we're all pretty clear that you you you're you're fine with it staying a marina if it has to stay a marina but your desire is to be in pedestrian commercial so you can expand the uses of that property yeah and and tie into all the great things that are going on C Carlos in the bay and and and whatever the vision of the town is at the end you know our current CPD application I think is a separate discussion and shouldn't be be determined if this property should be part of the downtown district uh I am having a very difficult time escaping the notion of irresponsible or irresponsibility in saying okay we're going to make I'm taking you out of the picture now sure because it's a who the ownership of the property is we're going to now make this parcel uh we're going to change the future land use designation of this parcel right so let's say that you know George gets in a mood one day and all of you guys say to heck with this we're we're done you're going to go back to Tennessee George is going to live his life Chris is in bunag gorta forget it and now each one of those Parcels of the seven Parcels that were listed are up for sale and up for grabs and the town has zero I mean they have to come through zoning changes granted right but but the town still has not had the ability to help craft what that picture will look like we're just saying we're going to change it I I'm just I'm having I'm really struggling with it I struggled with it for three days now I'm struggling with it so um I guess do you think that Bayfront property would be a value to the downtown district to the commercial pedestrian District over time regardless if it's the Freeland or whoever else owns it you know now I I would argue that we have a really good track record you know we've been frustrated many times and haven't bailed on the the beach in 40 plus years so I think we we've got plenty of leg to stand on we're local we want to develop it we want to be part of the island and I've heard you guys make a lot of decisions based on that you know we're not an outside developer coming in but one could come in could own it um at some point I'm not arguing that but that's the question is do you want that property do you want the bay to be part of the downtown district if you do this is a path towards it with no more rights until you they go through that resoning process then you can put all your desires and constraints on it right Anita um just call back to the the the things I wanted staff to clarify is is this the typical process and do most jurisdictions in Florida have more capacity from an intensity and density standpoint on their fut luse map than what's on the ground or or Sarah what's your answer to that um I think that this is the right process uh it would have been possible and maybe more um understandable if we could do the CPA and the CPD at the same time um I don't think it's a problem to do the CPA first um it does have to go through the process it has to enable the zoning that they want to do it would be nice to be seeing all of it together as a cohesive plan however um they do have to change the future land use District that does have to be done so if if you were to so the process would get sort of off when you know you guys could look at the CPA and the CPD at the same time and then it might have to be a Town Council they can look at it but they're not actually going to be able to approve that CPD at the same time as the CP necessarily um so I think that this is this is an okay process it would be nice to be seeing all of the components together and to know that that was the intent but even if the CPD got approved later on they could come back and do something different they would have to do the rezoning right now the way it would work if they wanted to do the CPA and change to pedestrian commercial they could just do downtown zoning um but that has a much lower f uh so lower intensity looking at our current downtown district it looks like it would fall in the one F because it's for all other down properties in the downtown district so you know unless they were asking to be part of the Bayfront uh Plaza which is 1.4 so they wouldn't be able to get anywhere near that 2.5 um unless they got the CPD approval so I think does that did I answer your question yes I think I you and then capacity on the maps I'm sorry capacity on the future land use maps um do you mean sorry explain further yeah so the question is if you look at um other jurisdictions throughout the state do they typically have more capacity from the standpoint of maximum allowable density and and intensity uh afforded through the future land use map and what's on the ground yes yeah typically they are going to have a higher density and intensity on the future land use map and then when you come forward with the CPD trying to get close to that number you know that's when you have to offer up additional additional things to the community like this is a public good because and and that's when they can get closer to the density and intensity that's allowed by the future land use District Don do you have any questions uh no I think Sarah just answered them and um had some of the same questions but I guess just a comment that I I don't um I guess I still feel like um well one personally you know and I think for the town I think it makes sense to to um to have this capability for that that plot of land um and I think you know you still have quite a bit of teeth in it for um for the next stage right so you still have quite a bit to say about the next stage and to Sarah's point I think we still have still have limit with future land with this future land use so those are my thoughts any other questions I'll open it up for a public comment or do you want to say something John well I guess the thing that's I understand the need and the desire if the vision is such that there's mixed use I think what I'm having a struggle with is the impact of the increase of f from say 1 .5 to 2.5 and while I don't believe that it entitles someone to get to that level the and we're looking at both the CPD which I haven't seen in detail but I've seen the shs and and are we approaching 2.5 with what has been provided to date or are we be I I don't know what that where we are in that that's kind of out of the picture right now because what what we're not we're not talking about that CPD we're just talking about the potential well I guess I understand that and then I guess what I'm what I'm struggling with is not knowing not knowing and um and seeing that this provides uh obviously a much higher ceiling that can be achieved um but but are there does the process provide for the level of review which I believe it does so that that intensity which I think is main concern that people have obviously the impact on the neighborhoods um will be reviewed properly I that's really what I'm thinking okay I'm going to open to uh this to public comment and Amy has a list of people but if your name wasn't called at the end and you wish to come up you'll be able to go ahead Amy okay first up is Chris mustero after Chris will be maxed 4G good morning Chris morning everyone my name is Chris mastero I am a resident of 9233 Street my property backs up MOS Marina so my rear property line is shared with the MOs Marina property I think we spent a lot of focus on what this land can be we haven't spent a lot of focus on who it's going to affect and that is the neighbors that live adjacent to the property prior to Hurricane Ian living here on Third Street was very present was very pleasant being next to the back half of a boat shed was a very quiet part of the MOs Marina property we don't have issues as residents being next to boatsheds they're quiet they're private they provide a buffer to sound and noise to the downtown district the building was completely sealed and closed in so there's no operation noise heard from surrounding properties Residential Properties there's a grass buffer between the boat sheds and the building setbacks and Residential Properties was always kept in good condition mode and free of debris since the hurricane and the purchase of the additional Properties by um the Moss Marina group I already feel like I live in a marina they're selling boats on the corner of Old San Carlos Towing them back and forth on Third Street with forklifts trucks and trailers all the time they're selling parking lots throughout all the lots of the residential homes that they knock down and purchased throughout our neighborhood the Boat Barn behind my home has become a debilitated with a huge open a huge open hole in the exterior wall so I could hear forklift noise all day every day and building operations of them moving boats this has gone un unaddressed by the Freeland family after I've sent them multiple emails addressing this concern to them they may act like they are good neighbors the reality of it is they don't they don't really keep up their property before the the casino boat was my time but talking to neighbors who've come and gone our houses were parked in all all along the streets people were urinating all along the front yards there was not enough capacity for the casino boats our LDC and zoning regulations help protect Residential Properties by ensuring that incompatible land uses are kept separate preserving the quality of life and property Valu for residents the LDC creates future land map use categories to reduce this is quoted from the LDC to reduce the potential for further overbuilding that protects remaining natural and historic resources preserves the small town character of Fort Meers Beach and protects the resid residential neighborhoods against commercial intrusions the LDC defines that under Marina use cruise ships and similar uses that draw large large amounts of vehic vehicular traffic are not permitted in this category Chris I'm sorry your time's up can you wrap up yeah I want to wrap up with one thing this can potentially be a trojan horse The metanis View neighborhood of Third Street Bonita Street in Harbor Court is located on a small Peninsula there's only one way in and one way out that's through Third Street the whole Peninsula is 400 square 400,000 ft Marina owns about 200,000 residents own the other 200,000 if this zoning future map uses changed this allows them to develop four almost 500,000 Square ft of developable property that will overtake our neighborhood that will overtake what residents have and overtake what we are allowed to keep the fort Meers Beach Fire Department already said the proposed develop will Encompass some residential areas specifically Third Street Bonita Street and Harbor Court which has the potential to create additional traffic and can Poss and possible congestion Chris I have to stop we feel this may have the ability to affect emergency response thank you thank you Chris I would uh Max forgi I would like to yield to our attorney Katie berky thank you good morning good morning Katie berky for the record and if before you start my time I just want to make a request for additional time if I may just given where my client is situated in relation to the subject property um Katie berky of Becker and poliakov and we are here today representing and and let me back up I'm a shareholder and certified land planner as well as a board certified specialist in city county and local government law I have been accepted elsewhere in the area as an expert witness in land planning but I'm here today as legal councel for Magnum fm1 LLC they're the owner of 725 man tanas Court um the manager um is Dale banama who also lives at the subject property it's only 72 ft away from the property subject to this application just across the canal so I respectively uh respectfully request um not time equal to the applicant but um between Max forgi our expert planner and myself six minutes time if that's acceptable you know I hate to do this to you because I know this is important but how about we'll give you four minutes uh it certainly can't be the applicant because you're not the applicant but we'll give you four minutes so go fair enough well I'd like to introduce and qualify Max forgi aicp he's also a certified land planner an expert witness with an MPA degree um has been a member in good standing of the aicp for over 30 years and a CV is in your packet at page 123 thank you counselor uh Max forgi 236 Southeast 45th Street Cave Coral Florida doing business as forgi planning um and I think Katie has described um my qualifications on behalf of Magnum FMB and their uh resident manager uh Dale vona uh uh first of all I want to emphasize the legislative nature of this case and to say Above All Above everything else you don't have to approve this uh the existing land use designations on the subject property allow a reasonable use to the applicant uh it is uh very similar to the use which Mr vona and his neighbors enjoy uh and um the first item is compatibility as it is De um defined in Florida law uh chapter 16 3.31 164 P9 Florida Statutes uh the incompatibility here is uh low rise versus higher rise single family versus up to 400 units quiet as you've already heard versus noisy uh this use cannot exist in such an extremely close proximity in a stable fashion over time I am quoting from State statutes without negatively impacting the use and enjoyment which is invol is valued by Mr Bona and his neighbors areas of concern and incon insufficiency the comprehensive plan the core areas are comfortably removed from seasonal traffic congestion and outdoor entertainment activities that many uh residents find intrusive that is from your comprehensive plan um this would move uh an intense use closer to Mr Bona and his neighbors the existing flu designations are as I say Bountiful they are Marina and mixed residential uh there are there's plenty they can do with that uh the applicant enjoys an entitlement far more than uh enjoyed by those across the canal and any intensification of use would redound to the detriment of Mr Bona and his neighbors uh while the proposed uh Amendment might not increase the maximum densities there are two considerations one the historically residential property would be redesignated as primarily commercial with an intense Activity Center that's from your plan and the property would lose the existing restriction by which commercial activities are limited to lower impact uses such as offices and motels um in addition to this you can't really call this pedestrian commercial because they are no pedestrian facilities is that the four minute mark four minute thank you I want to um point out that I have put this all in the form of eight findings of fact I urge you to deny thank you sir who's next Amy Tom Slaughter Mr Slaughter after Mr Slaughter will be John Samuelson okay good morning good morning for the record Tom Slaughter uh my background is I've uh got a master's degree Florida State in urban planning spent 20 years in local government and I own Cape land out of Cape Coral own land planning when I looked at this project the first thing I thought was shoot if I had the money and the time I'd be doing a sector plan because that's what this need you've heard from the applicant talk about a master plan well no it's their master plan and it may convey ownership and phasing but it leaves out the rest of that subdivision because if you were to ask and there was a good question is what is that Vision do you see it as a mix use and let's presume yeah you know shape form we haven't got there yet but then the question becomes that linear strip along the Waterway which is the low density do you suspect that they probably want to maintain that I'm thinking yeah but what about the folks in the middle of that donut who have been left out of that decision so my concern on this isn't so much that you have a bad project because projects can be shaped but the very definition of what you're looking at is that pedestrian commercial you ask yourself do you believe that there's wayf finding to Define ways into that development do you believe there's also a setup where you don't want the general public walking through backyards and you know some of those types of activities you might have and the best way to define that is as you move in from your comprehensive plan and those responsibilities look at possibly a sector plan take a look at the block by block kind of neighborhood type issues because then it allows you to move Beyond simply level of service which is a huge issue in a cal Community but also in terms of compatibility is this what the neighbor as well want because again if I'm not the development and I'm not the wealthy guy in the water but I'm the folks in the middle what about my needs and I think your idea on floor area ra I think um Mr vanesse brought it up is you see from their perspective but if there's a perspective you want to maintain the waterway at one level than their use at another I think you have an ability to wedding cake and to tear down and to take care of those folks because you may be creating a zonian allowance then that creates an incentive for those folks in the middle to do something as well so with that I thank you for your time thank you for your comments um John Samuelson and that's all I have signed up okay hello um I'm John Samuelson I live at 721 mantanza Court um I um looked at this I've looked at the burials of the the devastation we've had and it looks like we're I don't know what the process is where where 70% restored 50% 30% or whatever but my my first opinion on this reclassification of moss arena is why so fast why don't we get everything else built I mean it's functioning as a business it's serving a uh the community it's probably served for years I think what concerns me most of is that the island is not functioning at Norman ality but I'd say normal thing and we don't know what that's going to be um I can tell you now uh where I live uh it's I when I turn the corner at um what it be where where uh to go on to a sterile Boulevard from um coming across the bridge I just pray that I don't hit somebody because there with the opening of margarit bille and the lack of stop signals there's JW Walkers continuously along that and uh being blind in one eye I my head's like a revolving swivel trying to see that is it okay to go and uh when I look at the potential of this development and us back to Norm normal conditions I'm thinking how can that Road Old San Carlos possibly serve a huge increase in the demographics because this this development plan is going to change the demographics of the island in a big way especially that part of the island and I don't see a way of getting um usually on fire safety and casually ambulance they like to see two egresses for every project they want a weigh in a way out or an option if something's blocked how do they get through um so I don't see it on this plan I don't see uh how you can increase the traffic flow in that particular area other than what it is so huge demographic change we're going from a boating community to a resort Community primarily that's what I see in these plans and so we're kind of cutting off Fort Meers area uh the people that rent SP spots that go boating I live close to MOS Marina just a couple houses away and there's a lot of boers on Saturday Friday Saturday and Sunday it's like traffic uh you almost need a a stoplight out there so we talk about the access to the Bay sir can you wrap up CU your time is up okay we talk about access to the Bay I don't think with a boat marina you're going to have access to the Bay so uh my main concern is the demographic change and the increased traffic how you're going to handle the E entering and exiting uh those properties it's already tough the way it is thank you very much for your comments uh Leah I saw you raised your hand is there anybody else that we have several other people who'd like to speak uh coming up Leah and hello is is good good morning good morning um first I just want to thank you all I know you've been working very hard in a volunteer position and it's uh greatly appreciated I know you do a lot of due diligence Sarah you always do a wonderful job as well so my purpose for speaking here today Leah say your name for okay Leah Greg um 430 Bonita street so my purpose for speaking today is to express my concern over a comment that Mr Freeland the developer of the Arches has made numerous times publicly including in a zoom call he had with the residents of Third Street Bonita Street and Harbor Court and that comment is that he plans to use these three residential streets as the development Zone private delivery entrance for trash trucks recycled trucks beer delivery trucks alcohol trucks food trucks the list goes on um now the standard width just based on a little research I just did uh of a residential street is a two-lane residential street is approximately 24 ft Bonita street is less than 16 feet um in fact if you have a UPS guy delivering you can't go around them you have to sit there and wait so the standard width of a trash or beard delivery truck is about 8 almost 9 ft 8 and 1 half I think it's 8.7 ft so some semi- trucks are even larger now if the developer gets to build what they want there'll be over 400 hotel rooms dozens of restaurants bars kiosks shops you can imagine the amount of traffic this will cause going up and down these very narrow town-owned streets and it's going to be not normal traffic it's going to be traffic from large semi type trucks trash trucks you know we all know what the Budweiser trucks look like sexon food trucks these are the types of trucks that's going to constantly be going up and down our streets this will be a safety hazards now the freelance I I respect what they're doing I think it's a great idea I'm sure it's going to be a beautiful project um but they don't own these streets they should not be allowed to use any public Street as their own private delivery entrance to send these large trucks recycled trucks semi-rs daily to service their own business these large trucks will continuously as I said be going up and down these streets wanting to do this in our neighborhood I have to ask is that really being a good neighbor it's going to it's not going to be good for the neighborhood as you could imagine and comparing the Big M Traffic I was here back then um to the traffic that this will cause quite frankly is an insult it's going to be day and night as far as the difference so I would just um ask you to please take all this into consideration um I don't think any of you would want a developer to use your own private Street need I know your house I don't think you'd appreciate trucks going back and forth your beautiful house all day long um and it's a it's it's just it's a safety hazard it's going to be inconvenient frankly it'll ruin the neighborhood I think I've spoke with Ben and said is there any other options is there anything else we can come with with come up with without using those two particularly Bonita and Harbor Court um frankly they should be made dead ends so I guess that's another meeting but thank you so much thank you Leah uh other are you here to speak too okay morning good morning nice to see you this morning nice to see you um someone left their phone here no no it's cck it's the clicker got it okay so I'm Rebecca link um resident Fort Meers Beach since oh 2008 have two properties here so I'm also a business owner and I have to tell you that your uh plans are some of the most beautiful plans I have seen and I especially was touched by the boats that look like Criss craft because I'm an old chriscraftboats I will always look to Roi of my investment to see if my investment's going to be worth it so I don't know if I can ask a question of the applicant but okay I cannot but I'd ask a question for someone uh in the audience to consider how much of your return on investment would you be looking for from the community of Fort Meers Beach those people who live here bought our homes here because we want to live here versus relying on a return on your investment from people who have to come to the island to make it worth your while when I heard Margarita s hey Margaritaville say 50% will come from residents but we're relying 50% of our return on investment to come from people who have to come here as we continue to do this living here on this island is going to be horrific so I ask how many of you live here if not perhaps you should buy a house and you should live in the neighborhood and be required to be here at least 6 months actively you feel what we feel for those of us who this is our home we love sharing it with others we love having people come but if our home turns into only a Disney World where you go to we don't want to live in the middle of Disney World so please protect that and um with all due respect like I said I do think your Venue is beautiful beautiful not on a Barrier Island and um one other thing of advice this is difficult to say but I just want to offer it to you I heard one of the family members complaining about how painful it was to come here from out of town and I heard another family members say well why don't you just fly private you're complaining about how difficult it is to get here to this meeting how do you think it is to live here I and how difficult it is to go to work to ask people to come here and work and support our community when they have to sit 2 hours in their car and they're making $10 an hour I do love your property please reconsider we would love to have another Marina we need a marina residence thank you and again with all due respect thank you Rebecca thank you um Mr V I thought you were going to do yoga this morning s Bill V the record resident of Fort Mars Beach um I just want to say that you know I know that the of this is a small map Amendment but there is nothing small about the ramifications of this it it it's a big step in towards their end goal of what they want to put in and keep in mind this is only one of probably a dozen properties of comparable size that you're setting a president for and I know that just because you do something for one person doesn't mean you have to do it for the other but if you don't do this for everybody if you don't treat everyone equally then you're opening yourself up for lawsuits and it would it would just be a flood of lawsuits think the only way really to safely and quickly rebuild is to stick to the comp plan stick to the way things are and that way you're not at risk of of Bob suing you because he didn't get what Jim did um the uh the use when you look at the use table for what they have and what they want it's like night and day the marina you can you can you have um your Marina and you get limited I think it's uh you get limited um Civic limited uh um retail and when you when you have the downtown zoning and office and office when you the downtown zoning you get you're open for everything except a marina you're limited for what you do for Marina that's a lot of usage and quite frankly that's worth a lot of money there's people who have bought properties like the uh the Old Red Coconut they paid a lot of money because those properties came with uses already in it they came with density already in it what you have here is you're going from someone who has a right now by a zero units because there's no residential use in a marina to wanting over 400 units um that's a huge change is worth a lot of money and once you give that to them you can't get it back it's theirs and you set that President so I would take this very seriously this is not a casual Small Change it's got huge ramifications that will affect the Redevelopment on the island forever and and throughout the island the other part of it is is that this will not help redevelop the island faster this is a big project this will take years the neighborhood where this property is going to be in they'll see years of construction trucks they'll see then after that there'll be delivery trucks it'll be that whole neighborhood downtown old San Carlos will change rap immensely because of this and you know with the storm kind of center of gravity for the downtown business district has shifted Inland which is something that FEMA and everything recommends um this will take that old San Carlos Boulevard and make it into a parking lot and it will lose a lot of its attractiveness to people to go down there another thing is I know we've recently got dinged by FEMA and some things that said about um with our insurance rates and they said that the documentation isn't very good and that we that that there's a lot of people who are doing work without permits and I guess there hasn't been enforcement on it the other question is how does how does FEMA look at it when we are going through and allowing additional densities in a flood Hazard area because that you know we still only have a two-lane road it's not just tourist traffic but we have to evacuate we have a road so that's it thank you thank you Bill is there anybody else who'd like to speak yes ma'am the come up here I'm like Ed I get very anxious oh no don't be anxious it's just it's just us um okay I have to try and I'll focus on you Anita please do um okay my name is Jean guzzy I'm a resident on Fort Meers Beach um have invested in the beach love the beach survived inan um have followed all of what is looking to transpire as well as Margaritaville and I am horrified that this this shouldn't go through the way it is because it's it's just opening up like you said if if they decide next week after you approve this they want to sell it off they're now giving away and I know the whole concept of but then they have to come in but you open the door for them and they have actively shown a project with 400 units which personally I don't want and I love the marina I'm I'm good with the marina I've said it before I came here over a year ago and said please follow the plan that's why we invested here so I'm just asking you to please deny this request because there's just too many variables that open up too many potentially scary things okay oh oh and if they have 400 units our beach is jammed I come up and down where are they putting 400 more units worth of people on that little beach out front you know where is it going I just also want to ask that truly thank you so much for your comments is there anybody else who'd like to make comments I'm going to close the public hearing and we're going to take a f minute break e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e thank you for the quick break if everyone would take their seats thanks Nancy no no no no no apologies okay um would the applicant uh like to make any final comments or rebut any comments made thank thank you madam chair members of the board and and we want to appreciate our our gratitude to the public for being here and not only those who are here but those who are watching and all the comments that have have been expressed from the earliest shetes to I know multiple Community meetings and phone calls and and survey questions and and providing feedback and while most of the comments are all related to the CPD that is not in front of us it's great to hear them again so so we appreciate the Forum and and we do hear the comments the CPD is not ready to come before this board for recommendation it's still under review by by staff and if the future land use designation designation isn't changed it won't move forward it it cannot move forward and I just want to close with that legally we understand the the idea of wanting to tie the two together or could you even legally tie them together and you can't legally sure they they could be on the same agenda but the future land use change always has to come first or the CPD would not be consistent so if the future so the decision on the future land use change has to be made first and if it's a no then you won't even move forward with with the CPD App application um you also cannot legally condition a future land use approval right like in the CPD we can condition the zoning and that's part of the process is negotiating hearing from the public coming back with with a a different proposal and that's all part of the process the process that we're currently in that's separate than where we are today in front of you and it's a great process it's a process that provides um a numerous level of review um consistency with a multitude of Land Development regulations comprehensive plan uh policies objectives it comes back before you all and then goes again to the Town Council but it's a very detailed process and there's Protections in that process where we can flush out all of those issues but those aren't issues that are appropriate today when we're looking at the long-term vision and where we want to move forward on this property is the vision to maintain the 1999 industrial private Marina use and we heard testimony today an expert say oh it's a quiet use but we heard testimony saying well it's become a noisy use and I've read other articles about noise on the property and we're hearing those you know taking that all that feedback in but do we want to maintain that use a use where we we're already permitted to have open rack storage on the property or do we want to look towards a vision that would lead to a mixed use development that would activate this property open up the Bayfront and be a true benefit to this downtown district and you're not creating precedent because there are no other similarly situated properties in the downtown district where we're looking at today well Madam chair members we we truly appreciate the opportunity to come before you and we ask for favorable recommendation today thank you so much appreciate it um Sarah do you have any followup with um anything that came up from the residents uh our speakers or anything else you'd like to follow up on no unless you have additional questions okay well we'll see Don I'm going to start with you up there because so I won't forget you any questions no I don't have any questions okay Patrick any questions or comments anything uh no questions I'd like to hear a little more from everybody and you're I'll chime in okay I'm sure you will okay um Jim any questions or no questions just when we're ready for comments okay uh John anything no questions um do you want to make your comments sure I'll start please um two comments not uh necessarily Rel related um but the comment that there three existing land uses um and uh that somehow they need to be tied together um the existing pedestrian commercial was added subsequent to the marina when that parel was purchased with sobs that's a more recent acquisition so I don't see that um it needs to be used to bootstrap W the other request the 1999 comprehensive plan this body has been working well over two years on amending it there has been much discussion about what that Vision should be and I thought that we had all agreed that the marina designation was important it should be kept in the revised plan that there we are on an island um and a marina is a ingal use to being on an island there was substantial discussion about keeping that designation um and I think later in the agenda today when we look at comp plant we've agreed that the the 1999 designation should go forward on the two Parcels that were designated Marina Jane any comment thank you Jim do you want to wait I'm I'm thinking I'm going to wait so I'm just going to tell you Ben I I would love to tell you yes because I admire your family I mean starting with your father moving down to you guys um I cannot support this request and I can't support it for I think the primary reason and I sit here um I'm like the the old guard and I hate saying that because I instantly feel old but when Christmas stereo gets up and talks about what about me when this gentleman I never knew but I was moved by his comments saying what about the guy in the middle our whole comp plan our whole incorporation was about the guy in the middle it was about me it was about Leah you Bill it was about all of us who who who do Rebecca who do actually live here um you know as a business person on the island I want the downtown to thrive but I also want people to be able to live their lives and as you well know that's one of the oldest neighborhoods on the island I mean back when the swing Bridge came on it was right there and that's where fishermen lived I mean the Keel used to live in that neighborhood it it is to me it's something that I I can never escape the commercial intrusion into residential neighborhoods I can't escape it and I can't escape it because of my experience from day one with this town how important that was that we and especially especially after the hurricane it was abundantly clear to me how fragile this community is and just how much we could take and um so I know that there are arguments and great uh suggestions that we need more um I was in a meeting last week where someone said well what would you do with this parcel and I said I would leave it empty and leaving it empty I felt was the best decision that could be made for people who are going to come here 50 years from now not necessarily for the three property owners that had those Parcels um leaving it empty isn't an option like leaving your property empty is isn't an option but opening uh or changing this land use um on the future land use map to the highest intensity uses that we have I with especially and and I understand very clearly that um the two cannot be linked I wish that they could be linked um because maybe I'd be thinking differently about it because I could be saying well how are you going to protect these people how are you I mean it is it's a peninsula you're locked um I I can't escape the very essential premise of our incorporation and of our comprehensive plan that hopes and aspires to maintain the small town character of Fort Meers Beach and most and above all else wishes to protect the people who live on this island from commercial intrusion even even at the same time wanting to live in harmony with commercial uses so that's going to be my position on this and um and there there's a part I I struggled with this a matter of fact I talked to Bill vich about this at length last night um I I talked to several people because I have really struggled with this but um I I I I I can't I can't tilt so that's where I'm going to be on this is there Anita can I respond to that yes oh was wondering where did that come from it's a it's a voice in your head I guess my I guess what I'm curious about is and I I think I know the answer to this but I'm gonna ask it anyway and I don't know if it's legal or who has to answer it but can the future land use be approved subject to the CPD did I asked that same question Don and the answer is no okay can't be it cannot be conditioned or contingent so you you set the future land use and then if but but we still but you still have teeth in it for the CPD right so I mean if in other words if uh if whatever was presented was too intense too dense whatever the case was it still could be with it still could be um it was it would still be subject to approval before development would happen right well are you talking about The Arches CPD yeah yes but let's um or other or other it might not be arches if it's another land if the if this land was you know U if this F flu was was approved um and you know the Freeland sold the prop all the property to another developer that developer it might not be archers it may be something else I guess my point is you always have the ability to have control over what is developed in the area correct theas yes yes through the rezoning but and and and that's where that's where I leaned day before yesterday um however uh it is still to the to the folks that live in that neighborhood um and adjacent neighborhoods it is you're still telling them uh you're complicating their their lives with the fact that uh those property will now be commercial and they're going to be commercial at a high intensity no matter what comes through so you could imagine that all seven Parcels were sold off in a worst case scenario and you had seven zoning chases changes in seven different projects um it it would somebody else said it would change the demographics well the demographics are the least of the worries it would it would it would in my opinion it would Destro desty that neighborhood and you know to Jim's point there has been enormous discussion on on two different levels on one level you know we've all said we won't change the comprehensive plan now we're amending we're mending these some of these elements but the marina use we've discussed over and over how important the marina use is now that doesn't mean that that the freelin family wouldn't still have Marina use with their overall plan but but um well anyway that's it all right I'm ready for a comment um my my biggest concern is that the Marina has been there forever we all knew the marina was there when every person bought in the neighborhood they knew the marina was there it's it's not like you know it just popped up and is is new in the neighborhood but but it has taken over seven new Parcels in that neighborhood and it cons that were Residential Properties and now those properties are on top of people who didn't buy next to the marina and I wonder if you know you say there's no other Parcels that this could affect well I can I can definitely see if you know the 7-Eleven wanting to like it was on the south end when they wanted to redo the 7-Eleven down there they bought the parcel behind them they want to put in the Taco Bell that was a you know a complement to that and how you know far back can they go from a sterile Boulevard and pull those other Residential Properties if we should allow more intrusion by making this a um a bigger property and not even linking them all together so that they couldn't be all partialed out later I mean these could all be you know seven different restaurants or whatever and um I think I think part of the importance would be to link them so that they can't be um necessarily sold off to um other business entities well that's what the CPD would do I know but because we don't have that I you know I would I would feel 100% better about looking at the project if I knew what the project was and I knew what everything was going to be and I I I hear you saying we can't do one without the other but we could have information and um this just leaves too much out there for me uh to be comfortable with and I do think it will set a president precedent for other commercial properties to look at the empty lots around them and go hm what can we do with these I mean they're just residential lots we can make them commercial and that that that's a big concern Patrick um got quite a few notes here um I guess I'll start off by giving a little context I think Anita you you know you you've been here a long time time and you've got a lot of history and got a lot of context um I I haven't been here quite as long but i' I've been here 21 years and while you mentioned that maybe you're part of that Old Guard maybe I see myself a little bit as part of the new guard I I do too yeah and I'll I'll give you a perfect example of what I've seen and the changes I've seen uh since I've been here the stero Boulevard uh issue long-standing issue ever since I came on that on the beach and I remember when the issue was first discussed the Old Guard said and it was brought up that there are buildings there are people in the right of way and the Old Guard was leave him alone don't touch them let them do what they want let's not change the roadway leave it the way it is and until recently I've seen a shift also in the attitudes and the people on this island and when it came up again and we had to do something with the drainage and the issue of people being in the right of way I saw a very big change in the attitude was no it's not their property they're encroaching upon the rideway it's our rideway this is what's best for the community let's take the property if we have to remove them from our RightWay so I have seen a shift in attitudes and to change uh again we can we can agree if things were better back then versus today but but that's just giving you a little context of of you know I think I'm I'm maybe more of that new Guard versus The Old Guard um also and and one of the things that we we don't discuss a whole lot is I've got concerned about the finances for this town um I've got concerns about how quickly we can redevelop personally I feel that after this round last round of of money from from the state the spigot has pretty much turned out and um we we have to to really get going on the Redevelopment that's my personal belief uh I know not everybody agrees with that but that's where I'm coming from uh also Mr Slaughter and I've known Tom for for years an accomplished planner locally don't want to put in his mouth but he did say some some things that resonate with me he he said that he believes that projects can be molded and and I agree with them I think there are we have processes we have safeguards that you can adjust a project it's just not at this stage it's at the next stage and you can mold a project and you can put in those safeguards you can you can address compatibility issues you can address address interaction between the residential and the commercial there are ways to do that also just again my just my context my perspective I've worked in in Planning and Zoning for many many years and I I can I I could give you a long long list of projects where it was going to destroy the neighborhood it was going to be horrible and now these communities are built people love their communities love them and and they tell everybody how great their Community is so so again I that's my perspective I see opportunity in that that that Redevelopment I see an opportunity for rebirth and and I choose to look at it in a positive light so that's kind of the background in my context but but just just from from a standpoint of what we've been presented as an application okay we we've been presented again this is legislative and I fully acknowledge that we have to buy into a potential Vision okay uh but from an application standpoint I think their application is complete it's sufficient and it's demonstrated compliance with the requirements of a comp plan application um staff comments mention maybe the lack of pedestrian and um bicycle infrastructure I think we can all acknowledge that it's not existing today but we're a project developed there it's very easy to require sidewalks and Pathways if we need to um when it comes to infrastructure and capacity they've obtained letters of availability it's available so so from that standpoint we know they've met the requirements do we buy into the vision Mr Slaughter also brought up that uh it would be great if we could look at things comprehensively and I know you've heard me before sitting as an LPA member advocating for comprehensive visioning for this town okay it's out of my hands and the decision the way I perceive the decision by council is we are not doing that well uh if you'll remember I think it was a couple of meetings ago uh the town manager did uh Nancy and Amy correct me if I'm wrong but the town manager did say to the council that he had um acquired a strategic planning expert or whatever to work with the Council on a plan do you remember that do you remember when I do recall they they're looking into that possibility yeah but again we you know we and I think you were along with me on that we've advocated for that visioning and and kind of really looking at what we want to be and and identifying these things unfortunately until now it's been decided that we're going to go through this incremental process Case by casee process okay we are 18 months into this and to me it's a little disingenuous to ask a private property owner to to not give them their due process and say we're going to wait no no it's coming we are going to look at this more comprehensively and have a vision they're they're they're waiting to make decisions the town a lot of people want to see the the rebuild and you've got someone that's offering you offering us a vision and I fully believe there are safeguards there are ways we can address what I think is is certain things that have been discussed or presented that that people fear what it could be and again I use the word fear because it's fear of the unknown okay not trying to belittle that but there are ways to address that so so that's where I'm coming from um and I I believe in the process I believe this is the first First Step so I can support this application and will vote in favor of it um also from the standpoint of the marina issue that was brought up just want to clarify that we I I do recall that conversation I I supported the idea of having marinas I value uh having marinas in our community uh I I don't think I was Voting or supporting this I know of the marina designation has to stay there forever and we can't change it I I think the idea was we want to maintain Marina uses which are different than a future land use designation in my mind so so anyways um I've got some other notes but I think I've I've expressed where I stand and why and be happy to hear from others Mr M well as the most uh junior member of the LPA um you know I've spent a lot of time thinking about um what I could bring and what my role would be on this body um there's a great deal of expertise here and I uh I value everybody's thoughts and input um but I also have a great deal of respect for uh for the comp plan as it exists and that was something that um I was pretty clear about the I you know I am not by any means anti-development I'm I'm actually a pretty Progressive person from that perspective uh but I have to weigh in my mind uh the benefits to to the neighborhood to the residents to the community as a whole and I'm not sure when I balance that that I I I feel uh it's waiting in favor of of the residents in the community and uh and those are my comments John and I I guess this would apply to everybody okay uh I I personally know some folks that live in that neighborhood that are supportive okay um again when when we're starting to talk about the impacts of the neighbors we've had a few people show up here today I can tell you that right now I don't feel comfortable that is this the the few people that were here today are they necessarily speaking for the entire neighborhood yeah Patrick I'm actually not I don't know my thoughts aren't really I mean they're obviously influenced by the people that have have come up to speak but it's more when I look at what I see as the um what is being offered as public benefit versus uh what would be given up from that perspective so while it is a very much localized issue I'm I'm actually thinking of it more islandwide than strictly that neighborhood although that neighborhood would certainly be impacted greatly no question I agree with John in that respect that though I respect the comments that you know I I know all these folks who talk today that are from the neighborhood and whatnot it it isn't just that neighborhood um I I remember the days of the of the Big M and the Big M was um was controversial in that it was amazing impact to the island because it was lots of people coming twice a day to load on that boat myself included and uh and I I just I cannot get past um as as we have this this year in particular which is just such a strange Dynamic when you've got to sit in traffic for 2 hours to get someplace and we're looking at creating more um and making those changes it's just seems contrary to um common sense now could I see this happening yes could I would I like to be able to sit at a table with a bunch of drawing drawings and start picking and doing and figuring out how how could we make this work yes I would consider doing that but I don't have that option all I have the option of is saying okay we're going to change this you'll have the option at zoning but I'm I have like everyone else have said has said I have opened the door and if you want to call it fear I'm going to call it uh an irresponsible action to make a change that I know will impact a neighborhood without knowing how I'm going to be able to mitigate that or what it's going to be it's it's I I can't get past it Patrick and believe me if you could talk to anybody I've talked to in the last three days you would know that I have I've bounced but I have struggled with this I've struggled because I know all the property owners and the business owners on that street and in Time Square could this could it evolve into something I think it could but at what cost at what cost or do we just push for Old San Carlos to redevelop like we envisioned Old St Carlos redeveloping ages ago if somebody could talk to John Rashard I I've talked to John and uh and he's waiting but just like everybody else but but I this this notion this vision of having two bookends is very attractive to me um I think it it would create a cohesive of uh vision and development for for our downtown um I I guess I guess my faith in the system is is a little different and yeah I I see it as we've got the opportunity to guide that development through zoning you know the most difficult thing about um living in a small town and doing this in a small town is having to look at your faces I mean because I know you and uh and making making decisions that you know uh either somebody's gonna be jump up and down and go yay or somebody's gonna go damn her why did she say that um that's but but I I have to um I'm going to stand by what I said so actually people will say both no matter which way well of course of course of course uhis Chris I I'm sorry we can't I can't answer that question but it's I I get it um okay any other discussion all the question well I'd like to say if there's any way possible for them to bring both in one meeting and and I know that that's a lot of planning to put together without a definite yes on the other but I think that the town and and everybody else could look at it in a better perspective than just saying okay I'm going to open this can of worms and let's see what happened that's scary um and I um you know everybody I talk to says how can you let residential become commercial and not consider the the effects and so you know I think if you could present something that people could I mean I Envision something there I Envision it being useful and and that's what we need but uh you know it's just it's you know it's very hard to go all in when you're not seeing the picture okay any other discussion oh Don one more yeah one more question and I just for some reason it just flipped off my screen but are there my understand at least looking at this there's only two two or three commerci or resid loss in this plat right no and the rest are already either Marina or am I right are all of those in pink were residential so there's 1 two three four five six seven HS there are okay so it's all of those along the edge of it okay Sarah do you want to confir confirm that for Don yes um I think if you look at uh exhibit B no not exhibit B exhibit a like the one with green with the circle but anyway if you look at exhibit a it shows um the blue is the marina and that's two parcels and then the red is the mixed residential and it's 1 2 3 4 five Parcels okay gotcha thank but but the the um the two between Harbor and Bonita I believe used to be maybe four Parcels okay is that page 113 you go to 11 on the 11 number 11 on yeah I'm on 113 that's where I was I was just looking at the green 113 actually shows the parcels yeah that's what I was looking at thank you did that answer your question Don yeah I did y okay any other questions or comments if not may I have a motion well I'll make a motion while I I don't think it it it'll necessarily be supported but uh I'll make a a motion to um recommend approval for the uh petition is there a second for that motion Don yes I'll second in it uh is there any discussion on the motion uh do you need this to be roll call okay uh Patrick your vote hi Don hi John May Jim no Jane nay no motion fails I'll make a motion to deny the request for the um uh the uh future land use map uh change um the end is there a second I would add just that um basically in your materials um your your LDC does have um some criteria which is very broad that whether or not the proposal increases um excuse me is in the public interest so um you want to deny this finding that it's not in the public interest at this time I'll restate my motion uh my motion is to deny the request uh finding that it is not in the public interest I'll second that there's a motion in a second is there any discussion um my vote is yes Jane yes Patrick Nate Jim yes John yes Don he okay the motion carries four to two sorry you guys okay we're going to move on to the next uh next item on the agenda um and the next item on the agenda is comprehensive plan the comprehensive Plan update 32 Sarah you were going to kind of lead us through this because the um the folks couldn't come in right yes um so I actually printed off all the maps and then left them on my counter so my apologies for that would have updated maps in front of you um they are all available as part of the agenda but I don't believe they're as large uh so my apologies for that um I have seen uh that some of the items that we requested be done were were not done I've sent an email to uh Mario to follow up on those um unfortunately we got the items the day the agenda was due so I there wasn't much I could do I needed to put it on Sarah isn't aren't we going through this again simply because um uh we didn't meet a requirement for public hearing that we needed to have a public hearing yes so maybe it would be best to say if has anybody had any second thoughts or questions uh since that meeting yeah because we are going to any any of the things that were not caught I'm going to be going through with a fine tooth comb and getting back to Eddie and Mario to make sure all of those corrected so if there was anything else that you know after the meeting you had questions after the first meeting you had questions you wanted to go over more thoroughly again I do see that we um received uh an email about o ditch park yes yes um so so it's it's up to you whether think that additional parking is appropriate um it is a Lee County owned and operated Park um that is land owned by Lee County uh so we while we can encourage them to do some things they we don't operate this park necessarily so um I think it's important to remember that we can we can put things that we want to support or encourage there but there isn't really an activity that we're uh going to be doing in that Park necessarily so do you think that the the additional parking is appropriate or not well even though we don't have jurisdiction I think the county would take into consideration what you know the the plan says yeah so if you wanted to encourage something but you can't you can't put in the comp plan we will do this because we we can't do it any additional parking there I mentioned Anita earlier would require giving up additional park space yes and I don't know that I would be comfortable encourage them to give up any more Park so I thought it was a valid point brought up in the email and perhaps we ought to consider keeping the language that was initially in the 99 plan okay how does the rest of the group feel about that I agree Patrick the future depends on you don't um I I Jane do you agree or disagree agree and P once you get your breath uh yeah I went down the wrong pipe I'll need a second um John how do you feel about it uh I I really appreciated the email that came in I thought it was very well written with great deal of insight into the history and I completely support that uh don did you do you have anything on that no agree okay better now um I'm okay with leaving it the way it was okay um so uh don did you have anything from the last meeting until today that you have thought over or would like to um bring up relative to uh what we went through with the uh comp plans no nothing new how about you John no nothing new and Jim no I think we uh spend a lot of time on going through it line item by line item so if the requirement is that we have a public hearing just to finalize it then we should do that okay uh Jane how about you okay Patrick anything you thought of yeah yeah actually it was brought up by by um Mr Inc when I when I spoke with him um we we looked at F in the current comp plant and in some districts for certain designations it's not well defined so it's not like we have every future land use category where we say here's your maximum yes we just say if basically silent then the maximum would be 1.5 for all others and I think there's there's a need to clarify that bring that up at the last time yeah and I think the the idea of making That explicit for each future land use category is useful it it's just agree it's explicit it's clear everybody knows it's right I even had that as a note what did Jim say at the last because I couldn't remember and that was it yeah and and I would agree with that and I think that it's easier for use also because when you know in a few years when you have new people on the board and they're looking through the comprehensive plan trying to understand what it says it's easier if it's listed in each section so I think that makes a lot of sense um something I did want to bring up that came up at the last uh Town Council meeting there is an area of the town where um it's currently mixed residential and there was interest in allowing more commercial uses in and it's currently a neighborhood that was also on my notes hold on Jim Jim was talking about this it's Gulf Drive yes and the way we have have changed this if if something isn't in one of the nodes um we we didn't want commercial encroachment in the neighborhood and that's what we heard so we had changed the what was mixed residential and the comprehensive plan to medium residential and removed the ability to have commercial uses deeply into neighborhoods but made um all the areas along a stero part of commercial so you know if or unless they were residential so the portions that were nodes or that were pedestrian uh not pedestrian um Boulevard or you know the other commercial districts we had either made them part of the nodes or kept them as uh a commercial zoning district and then anything that was further back into the neighborhood is just mixed or medium residential which is only residential so not allowing for additional commercial within those neighborhoods but if we need to change that back if there's still an interest to potentially have hotels in neighborhoods to potentially have the ability yeah I mean the restaurant was the specific thing being requested which is a pretty high intensity use um that mixed residential would not currently allow and um the I think it's uh RC is what it was maybe that neighborhood was um I I just wanted to bring this up as something that maybe needed to be discussed if there's still interest in potentially having commercial in those neighborhoods and opening up that Medium residential to be more like the mixed residential text was before Patrick I I like the opportunity of opening it up just from the standpoint of we we we do know that great Neighborhood Restaurant is something that's appealing to all of us somewhere where you can just take your bike or walk down the street and have that use and right now if you look at our comp plan our future land use categories it's almost impossible to do without either doing a comp plan Amendment or even even the boulevard category which allows for more of those neighborhood commercial uses you you can't you can't build a new use you know by right you have to go through a plan development you have to to justify it and we've identified those nodes as existing commercial and and appropriate places for commercial but you it it it's very difficult to be able to to redevelop thing anything right now so I do like this idea of opening it up a little bit again you'd have to come in and request it through a rezone you have to justify it but at least the opportunity is there for some neighborhood commercial uses and I don't know if I was in privy to this discussion of golf drive so I haven't really given thought as to if it's specifically where they where it was cited a restaurant and on Golf Drive but but I do like creating some opportunity for neighborhood commercial and and at the at the you know not not talking about into the neighborhoods I can definitely at a longest stero longer Bou long so guess that's not what was talked about iess talking about a gulf Front Restaurant in the neighborhood yeah so I guess that's one of the questions like do do we want to I mean because currently medium residential is what you know all of those you know back into the neighborhoods really is um I mean but if there's an interest in still in allowing those types of uses to sort of be mixed in right now like you said if if we went forward with that Medium residential would not allow somebody to do that they'd have to do a comprehensive plan land use change and then they would have to do a rezoning in order to have that use deep into that neighborhood um whereas if we changed it to mixed residential I still don't know that that the way not we changed it back to the language that was more mixed residential I still don't know if it would allow the intensity of of a full scale restaurant in a neighborhood but um it would it would have more ability to have something like that and to have like you know the small motels and and things like that that we used to see in the past although I don't know talking about laah that prop or no that was something else yeah there was a conversation about that that had to do with um uses yeah um and if they could establish previous yes it yeah it had to do with with one with the um issue with Commercial Boulevard I think yep and and we are going to be working on a code change to I I I think it's going to be a land or a a use table change for that zoning District just to make it less complicated to redevelop those sites yeah I I haven't given enough thought as to introducing something new but I think we've we've discussed this and thought about the boulevard category long enough that I think the directive is definitely we've got to open that up you know that those are if it's on the boulevard but if it goes back in I agree most of the streets are all dead ends here on the island anyways and you know the traffic the congestion the refuges all of the things that people brought up today M are even more intense on a residential street I think on my street if somebody that backed up to the Bay made that a restaurant I'd hate my street you know you know I was thinking about um the monkey duck on Captiva yeah so way back in the day when I was Jim you remember this there actually were houses on that street and um and now there are not but um when they were talking about God when I say things like that I feel ancient you know we had a monkey duck also on the island yes I know we did and it was right on the boulevard right and it made sense on the boulevard yes and it made sense on the boulevard but it wouldn't have made sense no no it wouldn't I agree so I think Don John disagree are you cool with that so I'm I'm going to take a close look at the language and and maybe if there are any um any lots that are going to be in the medium residential that are along a stero um look at including some sort of language about it being adjacent to the boulevard because you know it sounds like deeper into the neighborhood if that that's not a desire agreed okay okay and then the other thing was I brought up some um what I what I thought were inconsistencies from from an F standpoint and and uh the consultant was going to look into that so just reiterating that what was that Patrick uh there was a few some of the ranges that they had wasn't consistent with what was there today so I think the idea was just just make sure that you go back and look at all our future land these categories and we can't diminish diminish the that intensity range that already exists one thing I did want to ask um nope never mind I just answered my own question okay um all right let's open up the public comment does anybody Jim Madam chair Madam chair before we do that can you read proposed ordinance 2410 title into the record you know what I'd love to Amy thank you we an ordinance of the town of Fort Meers Beach Florida adopting amendments to the town of Fort Meers Beach Comprehensive plan future land use housing community design Coastal management conservation historic preservation intergovernmental coordination and capital Improvement elements to update data and Analysis and the goals objectives and policies related to the requirements of chapter 163 Florida Statutes providing for severability scrier errors conflicts of Law and providing for an effective date Mr Inc right for the record Jank Inc engineering uh just a a couple comments to go with what I've testified before and I noticed that pedestrian commercial and Boulevard do not list F ARs and we did away with the policy I know you talked about that so I I think you're going to fix that part of it and and I agree that all the future land uses should have density and F ARS in it it was always cumbersome to have the commercial intensity down there before um secondarily the marina changes uh I like the idea of the marina changes it seems interesting that you brought in mixed juice and residential into the marina mixed juice category and I think that that's probably if this is totally separate from the other case but if it's a Marina District I think that's an appropriate use of a Marina District of what is what is that mixed juice would would probably have to be defined in the Land Development code to so it's real clear as to what's primary what's secondary how is that mixed use because you could look at a I know they're I know they're large but a Pier 66 in Fort Lauderdale it's a hotel Anam Marina well which one is it and there are jurisdictions that allow lodging in Marina districts in the comp plans so I just encourage you to work that through and and provide in what what the town is actually asking for in in detail so it could be followed appropriately okay thank you thank you Jim is there anybody else who'd like to make comment Leah hi I just wanted to to comment um Leah Greg for Beach no no no I just forget losing it so I just wanted to comment on what you said as far as there wasn't a lot of homeowners here um oh no wait Leah you can comment on that at the end this is specifically about the comp plan oh no worries okay then I'm sorry it's okay it's all right just just bow for the moment uh anybody else thank you very much uh any further discussion on this we'll move it forward forward in your hands uh do we need we need a motion probably okay um I'll make a motion to um to forward the lpa's uh updates and um for the comprehensive plan uh onto the Town Council with the uh staff's recommendations I'll second that any discussion that would include the changes we talked about this morning yes it would any discussion okay my uh vote is yes Jane yes Don yes John yes Jim yes Patrick yes okay carries unanimously thank you uh the next does anybody want to take a break does anyone want a granola bar all right next uh the next item is ordinance 2404 emergency temporary uses why are you laughing you should have seen his the court reporter yes his face when you said does anybody want a granola bar granola bars up are up for grabs would you like one what are they talking about are you sure okay we just never know how long we're going to go you is that in the is that in somewhere ordinance 2404 emergency temporary uses an ordinance of the town of Fort Meyers Beach Florida amending and restarting are you guys having an issue with what I'm saying no uh amending and restating ordinance 235 to permit a temporary to permit a temporary uses in certain zoning districts in response to and as part of the town's recovery efforts natural disaster or other emergency situation one by a governmental entity for the benefit of the public two for residential manufactured homes mobile homes motor homes recreational vehicles or other temporary dwellings for the residential purposes and three for movable commercial structures for the delivery and sale of needed goods and services to the public providing for conflict of law scrier errors severability sunsetting of this ordinance and providing for an effective date Anita how about we uh I think you you you indicated that the grammar was wrong a let's correct that also while we're at it a temporary uses a temporary uses temporary use or permit temporary uses yes yeah also the word needed to me speaks talk about the needed needed Goods yeah because I mean there are trist yeah subjective to you know if somebody to rent a golf court cart or a bike and it's in a mobile structure then got it it's not really needed right I guess my question is uh and and and Sarah I don't know if you're the one answering this or Jason um it this probably needs to be renewed for those uses is this in any way linked to our broader discussion of what temporary uses do we want to allow uh and and the needo you brought that up of when we started this the idea was if it was an existing business and they they could somehow you know if there were a restaurant they could do a food truck we would support that but we you know we weren't necessarily at that point looking at introducing New Uses since that discussion and I don't know if it's part of this and we just approve this and we'll have another discussion for the other uses but I the the interesting thing is after we had that discussion I was looking at some of those other uses and for for example heavy machinery on a site okay and we we have some heavy machinery needed for the beach renourishment and that's government doing it but we also have other people that are doing multiple projects on this island that need to store their equipment somewhere rather than Trucking it on and off all the time I kind of see a need for that uh again we need to establish parameters that probably so but but I I'm trying to figure out what's the discussion today are we just looking oh no we're looking at the whole thing but um so what you're what what you just brought up would be an additional category so in instead not just governmental not just residential not just commercial but maybe the category is service or construction or Rehabilitation or something is that what you're talking about something supports the rebuilding specifically so a that that would be an important thing for me the other thing is I I've had a lot of people on the south end say look you know sun goes down there there is not one place to get food on the south end we know I know we've been discussing this at Santini but I I wouldn't negate the opportunity for a food truck to come in and say there's an empty lot there on a temporary basis I want to petition for the opportunity to put a food truck on that empty lot do that outside of this but if we if we don't include that in the list does that complicated for them or negate the the opportunity for them to do food trucks in general I mean they'd be allowed to do it there because there were restaurants in that bus but but take take on the south on the south end the let's let's forget about sananas who knows when that's going to happen and but but if don't talk so negatively about that Patrick but but I I've also had other people saying think I could find I think I've got someone with a food truck that might be interested and we're looking at it was it was an empty lot I think it was an old uh an old Motel lot on as St Boulevard right now the the the hotel is not functional but they were thinking it could be a good great temporary spot and I agree with them like I don't see why we would prevent that but I I don't want to necessarily open it up to anybody and anywhere so I think that's the problem right is how do you limit it into the areas where there isn't a concentration of them yeah so I don't want us to negate the opportunity for someone to request it but I don't necessarily also want to open it up where it's a free-for-all you can propose business I agree because again back to the you know the thing Anita and I discussed at Town Council was you know trying to protect our our vendors that were on the island before trying to let them get back on their feet that was the intent I think and so if you just open it up and allow you know Chick-fil-A and Taco Bell to come in on food trucks that's that's now competition for for vendors that were here before so it sort of negates the original intent I think well I'm not disagreeing that there needs to be you know there there is a place on the south end for a food truck I mean we definitely could use some food down there obviously the 7-Eleven is opening I think today so that'll start a little bit but okay with eating Sarah what were you going to say I'm sorry so I wanted to uh have all of you look at the language it's on the fourth page of the ordinance um commercial uses and it says an emergency TPP may be issued to an owner or lesie of the property to operate a business that was existing on the property prior to the natural disaster or emergency or a similar new business so it's the way uh you know and and all of us working on this um we wanted to make sure that if you know a restaurant had been there and that restaurant didn't want to come back that another restaurant could go there they we wanted to allow those similar uses and and I think what you said is a good point that that we still do have um the ability to have food trucks um know there there's been uh for years I've heard that we don't allow food trucks we actually do we have an ordinance it's just complicated um but I think that uh there are certainly ways to get food trucks on the island not through this permit process because this really is for the Emergency to allow the businesses that were there to come back or for uh Property Owners to be able to lease out that property if they're not able to come back so to use a uh um an example of what was the little hotel that was on the corner uh was it Hideway Hideway um so that that hotel property um you smack dab in the middle of a lot of neighborhoods if well but well but there's space around it I mean there's enough space you could pull in and park for so that would not be able to have a food truck on it not Accord not through the ETP the emergency TPP it has to be pre-existing but there is the ability to have a mobile vendor so we do have an application process for that so if somebody else wanted to come onto the island and be in a location where a restaurant had not previously been but there's a demand and a need um I mean we do allow that um it's it's a very short section of code it's section 34-32 so and what's that what's that process does it require public hearing is it approved by by the town manager what's the what's the process it's an application um it's strangely it it refers to an ordinance and you have to actually go to the ordinance it was never brought into the text of mun code um so it's through ordinance 9614 um but it mostly has to do with background checks and you know where where you can locate it you can't stop on a right of way um but it does allow for I think Patrick said who gives the approval though it's administrative it's administrative so it does not even yeah it goes through sta well it it does sound like we've got a relatively painless process to allow that and that's what I I would I would hope that we have is that we we do have the opportunity if someone's got a good proposal and I don't know I I live right close to the Hideway so I don't I wasn't thinking of that one but I I was thinking of another property that someone approached me and I when I quickly looked into it I said look there's no way you can do it with with u with the existing zoning but um I wasn't familiar with this ordinance so with this ordinance it looks like there is an opportunity for them to request it so that I think that's a good thing that's a quick question on that just using the Hideway as an example m is um could could the Hideway way could could someone that owned a small motel um bring in modular um trailers for all intensive purposes and and have a little hotel or motel because that's what I read in that commercial use uh when I think about commercial use in a here here's a tag on to Don's question if the Hideaway had a little cafe inside that hotel I don't know if they did or not but if they did could they utilize the TPP for uh a food truck I mean it it looks like that could be part of it okay yeah um I'm not sure about the rooms but but you know for sure if someone wanted to put a little coffee shop on that corner I for one would support it but daily basis so so uh I I I don't know I I I don't know if there's a if this is the right vehicle to to Really expand the uses but I it sounds like we have an alternative if you you know if it was a hotel we want to put a coffee shop maybe this doesn't give you the right to do it but there's the other ordinance that does allow you so in my mind at least we're covered from that standpoint and we're not preventing something that might be a benefit Nancy I had brought up to you that I thought that it would be beneficial if for commercial uses they submitted with their application a site plan of their location showing where the where the trailer or the truck goodbye thank you for being here uh or anything else will be and um so that we can be assured that they're not on private right on on public property yes um that's possible to do um by putting it into the application just to clarify a little bit I'm going to defer to Jason I think they already do submit maybe it's a sketch and not necessarily um a site plan that that is correct kind of how the process goes uh on the sketch we're specifically looking for the setbacks uh what would be the the wheelbase of the structure in in question or the width width of it so that's our review am I hearing this correctly that the it's being asked to to provide effectively a survey to show the delineation between actual RightWay and their property know a survey it sounds cumbersome but just something that I mean if you're telling me your sketch is you're you're looking at setbacks and right away that's what I would hope that it would it would preserve and to make sure that all the uses are occurring on private property not on public property or right absolutely um so there's no real way to determine said I wasn't going to boom and I boomed uh there there's no good way without having a a some sort of survey or some sort of actual professionally done product for for staff at the staff level to say okay we're absolutely sure they're they're on their property it's more of a we're going to look at the back of the sidewalk and assume that is property line and then make measurement from that yeah I think Anita what I think about this is is if you take property appraiser boundaries you can show setbacks from that m is it Doo reference on the ground can you say where without pins you can't but but at least someone can say you know quick little sketch print out and show my footprints going to be x amount of square feet I'm going to be plus orus 10 ft from from this boundary this boundary and and I'm going to have a few spots for parking I think you can quickly sketch that I I I'm comfortable with that on a temporary basis and and obviously if the neighbors feel like they're being encroached upon I think that's where that's where staff has to look at it in more detail at that point I I think something that we really need to consider is like we kind of grouped every thing down to Time Square that was Here There and Everywhere along the Boulevard and kind of put it in a location where a lot of people could get to it having it be at Villa Santini if that would be the will of the owner of villa Santini and the town would be a another great location to have a group thing but I also think we really need to consider unless it's a business that's planning on coming in as a brick and mortars building or a business that was already here I just don't think it's fair to take away from those who are trying to get back to break and mortar buildings as restaurants to add miscellaneous and and I think that's important like the businesses down in Times Square I don't think we should have things that we didn't have before be given an opportunity to you know have never paid rent on this island in a brick and mortar and now they get to come as a a kiosk and you know that's that's cheap rent and I just I I don't know if it is or not well I just don't think it's fair idea I mean I get what you're saying if other businesses might want to take a little bit of their business and make a kiosk as opposed to bringing in their whole business but um I just don't think it's we need to be bringing in miscellaneous people that we don't have any commitment to the town and and having them yeah come in well because number one if we put these in all these other little spots how are these people going to develop their property I mean we're not helping support them redevelop by having them there and they'll go oh well I can't really move or afford to close down so I need to stay here as long as I can well you know we need to have those people put in permits to redevelop so that you know that's why it would be good to have a parking lot space like Villa Santini if they could if they would support that uh Don and I said that when we went to the council we said we felt like it was going to choke development right I do too Redevelopment that we you need them to get off go but could I ask a question I think it it chokes it and it potentially drives folks out I mean we you know if if you go on the um you know go back to the couple cases ago today I mean we're we're trying to protect and and covet if you will the what was here and the residents and um you know whatever the the property uses were if if that is our intent then we should be doing that across the island and so if I I own a little you know if I owned a restaurant and and uh Ian washed it away and I was able to together a food truck to do something to try to um get myself back you know on my feet and possibly redevelop and you know certainly if you let five other vendors on the island that sell food you're creating a competition for me that really does ends up negating the help that you gave me well I well one other question is that um you know the the six Monon intervals with is important to me because I think we can ask for them you know in six months we'd like to have a plan whether whether it can be supported by permits or anything but we'd like to have a plan and if you're going to sit here for you know two years and not in two years you still don't have any plan you know I just don't know if you're really coming back and you're you're taking up space we're we're on I think we're on month we're working on Mon 20 now right 19 or 20 so we're we're approaching you know we're approaching um we're well past 18 months which is what I think the limit is on there right now yep so so the way this this code was written was so that um this is for only the emergency so it's not for a temporary use that wasn't here previously um unless it's a similar use going back in the spot but so um say one of the restaurants down in Times Square the building was destroyed they want to bring in a food truck to that location the owner signs off on it they do their their etpp um and they're there we don't really have a way to force anybody to give us a plan that was actually something that we we wanted we would like that that should be part of what they're looking at but we don't have a way to do that um we do by by expiring or sunsetting the temporary permit well unfortunately the temporary permits I don't think can expire until yes 2026 I thought that was residential not commercial and that's 2025 September 2025 okay you all are are correct um that is a little glitch that we have to fix in this ordinance as well um there's a couple things that can extend the period of time um and unfortunately um the way that your this ordinance was written in 2023 was to basically say that after 18 months the entire ordinance goes away and so there's a policy question that needs to be answered do you want to have this type of ordinance in your code in the event that there is another natural disaster then everybody knows what the rules are and you can move forward or from a policy perspective you could say you know hurricane Ian was was a once in a-lifetime hopefully it never ever happens again and there is no need uh there would be no future need for an emergency temporary use so this is different from the other temporary uses that you have and I really want to emphasize that because that's very very important this is um you know if there is a natural disaster this is the first opportunity to go ahead and try to restore some type of um habitation and uh you know activity on on the island itself so with all that said um the parameters under the original code that was provided was um an 18month period with the incremental six month checks to see hey how are you doing what's going to happen moving forward but in the meantime we do have an executive order that's in effect um which again would justify um having some type of emergency me um temporary use ordinance and a permit allowed pursuant to that ordinance and then the last thing is the sp250 which did only address um residential so that would be state law we don't know if uh next year in the legislature they further amend SP sp250 or amend to be more inclusive of commercial type use what are you saying Nancy so we so are so we uh we're we're kind of stuck as far as when would when would a permit expire well a permit can expire based on the terms in your code the 18 18 months plus six months but there is a Statewide state of emergency that still I believe is in effect so that may extend it a little bit more because the state is mandating an should we look at two separate things you're you've asked two so we we got that but then you're also asking us do we want to have a permanent temporary application yes an ordinance in place so in the event of a natural disaster this is what how it would be regulated because um I wasn't here but staff is shared some stories with me this was put together very quickly initially some um guidance was provided under the local state of emergency then in March of 2023 you adopted an ordinance still um it was an ordinance but it talked about commercial but it didn't put in the requirements for uh commercial and staff uh through the application process developed some of those checks and back bances it was very chaotic as you can mention and I really think staff did a great job in trying to put some safeguards in um in that short period of time when there were pressures coming from every direction um but so this would be basically the codification of what we have already been doing what uh the Town Council had directed to be done it just didn't get put into writing um as quickly and as clearly as we had hoped okay is there any downside to making it permanent I don't think so because they are only it's a very small category only if there's a natural disaster otherwise your existing temporary use permits and ordinance would go into a place otherwise the food truck ordinance would also go into place um but it we do have an opportunity now um at the Town council meeting there was discussion about possibly identifying an area in town where you would have a concentration of of food trucks on on one of these vacant lots and I don't know if you have any thoughts about that that you might want to send back to the town C well so personally I really support having something in place that allows some direction in ity in the event of which we've already had I mean that's just Dr planning regardless and Partnerships between private business and government response and everything else is required in order to we we've seen that right we certainly don't want World Central Kitchen back in here we'd love to have people helping themselves I agree so that's what I would say um the question of do you want like a centralized place for it um can you I mean can you mandate that on private property I'm trying to think about the places that it would two separate issues John she's talking about uh so you're talking about having a temporary application in place having this ordinance stru in place that's a structure but then um what the Town Council was suggesting was and I think they were talking about town hall property yes uh that the town hall property be a site where it could be like a food truck Park and that was that's separate and apart from everything else okay um so yes to the first not so much yes to the second is what I'm thinking okay um Jim any comments um yes to putting it into the code permanently I I don't think I have enough information to give an opinion on a food car uh concentr there's a very nice in Naples there's a very nice Food Truck Park but is this temporary is it permanent and how long and there's just not not enough information but I did have a question under the non-compliant section of this code one of the remedies is uh revocation of the permit but there's no procedure there is is there a procedure elsewhere in the code that would mandate notices or how a revocation um would actually occur well the default is always that it would be done administratively and then there is an appeal process of the administrative decision so there is a procedure elsewhere not just in this C correct uh Jane any comments nope Patrick nope uh Nancy in the temporary placement applic a uh number four says only verified residents of Fort Meers Beach may be granted a TPP I'm sorry where are you specifically I'm on the actual application oh page I don't know okay um Jason I'll defer to you as far as the response on the application the questions that are being so it says number four only verified residents of Fort Meers Beach may be granted a TPP we're we're not sure how to apply that um aside initially after the storm we had bounced around the idea of using the um homesteading as no it's not just that but uh how about we we change the verified Property Owners so so again we talked about you know someone owns a property they had a restaurant there A lot of times the operator of the restaurant is not the owner of the property and may not be a restaurant yeah maybe that restaurant isn't want to come back in but you can put another food truck there I think if we said property owner that addresses it and I I think that that would work um the reason this was originally in there is because we didn't want people coming in and applying for tpps at short-term rentals and then renting out oh yeah I get it the trailers so that was why that was originally included but I think that it that update makes sense Property Owners but just this line right here I would I could go through the town and go they're not a resident they're not a resident they're not a resident why so it's like but anyway okay but we could so only Property Owners may be granted a TPP so now then let's let's take that one step further so um let's take a leased property I'm going to use Tom hoton at laola because I know him and I could U talk about him because of that so what if Tom so Chris Primo the owner of that property would be the person who applied for the TPP mhm and but what if Tom then Tom has no rights the TPP doesn't belong to Tom Tom's there at the will of Chris Chris could say you're out and bring in somebody else but corre he can do that no matter what it's true CU he's leasing the property never mind okay you should have that choice and I just want to emphasize too that it's um an ETP I mean because again focusing it's emergency emergency for emergency situations it's a very narrow um well then maybe we should have a separate application because it says temporary place we will have to update that that was that an example of what they were using um so did anybody have any other comments on this or did we feel it was s the changes were sufficient to reflect our original concerns Don did you think it was I think it does I think it does I think it cover Patrick Yeah Jane yep okay so since this is an an ordinance and it's a public hearing I'll open the public hearing does anybody have any comments on this no anything you're dying lean okay um uh all right we'll um we'll close the public comment and um and I'll ask for a vote to um to approve ordinance 244 emergency temporary uses as amended and forward that to the Town Council so moved second there's a motion by Jim and a second by John any further discussion all those in fa uh I know it I know it I caught myself uh your vote uh Jim yes John yes Don yes Jane yes Patrick yes and I vote Yes carries unanimously okay um hey could I ask your permission on something so Leah is our only public comment here we don't have public comment at the end of this meeting unfortunately could we just let her tell us what she wants to tell us Leah come up and then we defer to the chair I do love your tshirt by the way thank you I have three different ones oh I bet you do it's fun to wear them around so um I just wanted to comment real quick on Patrick's comment when you said there wasn't a lot of homeowners here speaking up on behalf of some of the issues we spoke up on behalf on regarding moss Marina um first off my street Bonita Street there's three homes there's me and my neighbor and a home across the street so if you take that into consideration me being one person that's 33 almost 34% of of my street showed up right if I get my other two uh neighbors that's three of us that'll be 100% of my street and if you take a look at the whole entire neighborhood going down uh third Harbor Court and Bonita there's roughly 20 homes that are there uh Moss Marina did buy several of them out so it's a very small small community now there is one that it seems like moss Marine is there a lot doing work lending the equipment um perhaps maybe that's the homeowners that support this but personally I don't know of anyone in that particular small community that um supports the way it is at this point especially the trucks going going back and forth you know if that was happening down your street that would be a disaster so that's all I had to say and again thank you thank you for your time thanks Leah for being here okay we'll move on to our last uh anybody want to take a quick break no okay just asking gr anola bar that was so funny on his face he was like like what did she just said the last thing is ordinance 2406 the draft expedited variance review an ordinance of the town of Fort Meers Beach Florida amending section 34232 required hearings of division 5 public hearings and review of Article 2 zoning procedures of chapter 34 zoning districts design standards and non-conformities to require only one public hearing before the local planning agency LPA for variances and extensions except if the decision by the LPA is not unanimous or if the town clerk receives a request by anyone for an additional hearing before the Town Council within 10 days after the LPA decision a public hearing before the Town Council is required for variances or extensions if the decision by the LPA is not unanimous or if anyone request such hearing within 10 days after the LPA decision providing for codification severability Grier's errors conflicts of Law and an effective date okay so I can give you an example of the application should this ordinance be adopted and uh by the Town Council this morning you had two um quasi judicial land use applications one was for a special oh I stand corrected yeah um the number B the variance um there was it was unanimously approved by Council by the LPA however it still the current variance has to still go to council so the intent of this ordinance is to say that um applications that are unanimously approved by the LPA or recommended um and if there are no objections made within 10 days then it does become final agency action and there is no requirement to go further to the um to the Town Council um at a subsequent meeting uh after we were directed to put this ordinance together um Town Council also ask that we include extensions of of permits if there's if it comes to the LPA the LPA unanimously approves it no one has any objections nothing comes up during the LPA meeting that would Merit further review that that would be the end of it rather than making them go back to the Town Council for further review it speed up the process so so so was the idea that if it's unanimous there might be a need to have two hearings I'm sorry no if it's unanimous if you it's unanimous there's no need to have two hearing I know but but the thing is so right now we make a recommendation it goes to council Council has to have two hearings yep so I think this is just saying that if we make a unanimous approval then of course it doesn't go to council but we also don't have to have a second that's what it's saying that correct Council doesn't have to have a second they they don't have because it's second hearing on variances oh Vari so so it's saying that if we so so the way it's written and that's where I'm confused about the way it's written it says that if we make a un unanimous recommendation for approval there doesn't need to be a second hearing at from the LPA no at the Town Council it doesn't say it says LPA the LPA does not have to have a second hearing to require only one public hearing before the local planning agency yes it doesn't say before Council I yes because I know what it me the sentence specific that you're looking at right there C or D I think it's if you go to the third whereas oh says it requires two public hearings for a variance application one before the LPA that is not correct one right and also in the request wait a minute that is correct hold on LPA reques and one before Town Council right so that would be the two we would have the LPA would have two hearings not the no the LPA would have a hearing and if it's unanimous without anybody that means anybody somebody from nor for Meers old Jim's gone uh sends in a letter saying they object it it would forward it on to the council and that's what I I'm I'm good with the intent I was just wondering if the language the language reflects that so the operative language would be in that section 34 - 232 um owner initiated requests yeah that's that is correct so C is one public hearing before the local planning and then two public hearings before the Town Council because the two public hearings are required for adoption of an ordinance ordinances are used for development agreements that have rezonings in them because we have to follow state law that's not for a variance right for a variance would be under D um owner initiated requests for variances or required reviews to extend or to provide evidence of satisfaction of conditions contained in Prior approvals that are unanimously approved by the local planning agency where there is no request for an additional public hearing made by anyone um someone who is watching on on TV or on YouTube um received by the town clerk within 10 business days after the date excluding holidays only requires one public hearing before the planning agency and the planning agency um action is final agency action which would then be appealable to the Circuit Court if if they wanted to go that route so do they want an additional review by Town Council and it was intended to expedite reviews right eliminate the town I thought the Town Council didn't want it they wanted this they want they want this yeah right my only question was I wondered whether or not 10 days was enough even though it's 10 business days is that enough um so and and my thought process was somebody's here today they get a unanimous approval from from us and when when would that case normally likely go to the Town Council following month right about a month right more or less two to two to four weeks two to four weeks not 10 days so it seems like that's shortening uh just for practical purpose what what people are accustomed to I I I thought 10 days was very short would you especially 14 uh I I thought I should I thought it should be two or three weeks or or until whatever whatever time frame you all would say was normal for a case to go from here to the council which I figured was two weeks two weeks three weeks business days 10 business days is two weeks so maybe it's maybe it what what were you gonna say Jason well I don't know that staff if we are given the assumption that this is done in at LPA I don't know that we're going to be prepared if all of a sudden 10 business days later we're expected to get it onto a onto the council's agenda it seems like to me that would actually push it out closer to six to8 weeks it probably would but for oh let's take a couple who live in Minneapolis and they're not paying attention they're not paying attention all of a sudden somebody says hey uh your neighbor just got a variance for a fence in their front yard and they only have they've got 10 days in which to I don't know it just seemed like a short period of time I don't know what you all think what are you comfortable with 21 days well then it's not helping they get the the neighbors get the notice by mail for the hearing yeah 30 days they get it for the LPA for the LPA meting the first meeting so they should have that information if they have an issue with it they need to present okay so do you all like the 10 days sure personally I do okay well then that so um sorry go ahead I'm sorry I lose another another request was that we um we take some extra effort to make sure that people knew about this 10 days or 15 days period whatever it turns out to be so in our notices that we send out we probably will need to include a paragraph there that would be great um also um it was suggested that when we do the presentation of the Quasi judicial matters that we also advise at that time um in the event it's unanimous that um and nobody requests you have a 10-day period to request an additional public hearing before the Town Council um posting it perhaps uh wherever we post our notices I think that um so like on your agenda itself at the very bottom there's a note about um if you intend to appeal in any matter considered at this hearing you have to have a Verbatim record we could add it there on your um agenda as well so the idea would be to make everybody aware that there is this period of time that they need to voice their U their concern for an additional public hearing and that's for the additional public hearing and um my understanding is they everybody still has a right for that that 30-day appeal after a decision is made yes that that's allowed by state statutes and Justin what preparation would you have to make Jason just what did I just say Justin oh I answer to a lot of names my daughter's boyfriend's name sorry um Jane there's no similarity he has a beard oh yes I I apologize for laughing at that but please go ahead anyway um what would you have to do because we we approve it um you would just go to the next meeting and present it again and they would have the opportunity to say their piece that's really it wouldn't be any real you know adjusting the the staff report or anything uh well there's there's going to be staff report adjustments that may need to be made even if it's just boilerplate uh changes so now we've got to have a staff member jump in update that uh that language for the outcome from LPA uh there there's a lot of small things that happen there's some handholding there's some cont contact with the applicants okay I didn't mean to say you did not in between I'm I'm flattered that the council would give us that Authority I think they they're showing a lot of faith in us and maybe not after today they won't want to but I I am I am appreciate hi roxan uh and um I'm appreciative of that but uh I also know that there are some folks that are like the LPA approves everything it just they approve everything and might that person just every single meeting send in a letter and I mean which anyway and in in that situation Anita then it would go back to the current process to the current process okay so at the meeting so that's not a problem because there would be somebody contesting it but that does touch on something you brought up earlier Anita which was anybody including Mr Link from North Fort Meyers or somebody who has no vested interest in this whatever is there any way that we can tighten it to be no no no okay it was a question yeah yeah okay can I ask a question of clarification from Nan go ahead uh when we when we say uh that everybody at the LPA votes for it uh does that also account for anybody that may be missing from that meeting or anybody that has recused themsel is it just of the voting numbers unanimous vote of of those eligible to vote we can add that language that would be a good idea we'd have to have AUM vote of the Quorum and that makes it done no matter what I just don't want to open a door for ambiguity after the fact good idea good idea Jason okay anything else from anyone on this otherwise I'll open the public comment which is UN empty room yeah this is sad yes uh would anybody like to comment no okay um any further comments on this uh so may I have a motion please to uh approve the expedited variance review with the change that Jason mentioned and was there anything else the dates do you still want the 10 10 days 10 days yes everybody like that yeah every it's business days business days yes perfect some move second okay there's a motion and a second uh is there any discussion on that motion hearing none your vote Patrick hi Jane hi John yes Jim hi Don hi Mo me yes motion carries unanimously okay administrative agenda anything for folks nothing um LPA items and reports Patrick anything none Jane only thing I'd love to know is do we have any idea when they're going to fix the sidewalks I've had more people complain daily about not being able to walk and ride bikes at night because of the sidewalks so there's nobody here that can probably answer that question is it Aero that they're mostly worried about yeah it's horrible County okay you know so maybe you want to you want somebody on the council to hear you and ask that question yes someone on Council hear me uh Jim uh Jim anything no John no Don no I'd like I'd like us to review the mobile vendor uh ordinances they're all the way back to 1996 I think we need to review it if we're really going to do this because I I Jason and I've had this conversation if you ask me do we per do we allow mobile vendors I would say no we don't allow them at all and Jason and I had this conversation he says Anita 96 whatever and I thought well what the heck so could we review those at some point in time okay thank you um Madam attorney anything no items uh Community Development people anything do you do you think that we're going to need to have the meeting on the 30th yeah yes I believe we have two maybe three items already okay I probably am not going to be here and probably would not be available for are you asking for an excused absence okay granted um I didn't even know that was a possibility need told me I can never miss there you go you you can never miss Don but we're gonna let Jane go okay all right thank you all for everything today and uh may I have a motion for adjournment please it is 107 don't move okay we stand adjourned I thought we would go much longer than this today I did too you