##VIDEO ID:g7YVE7Wvgjg## okay uh good morning everyone Patrick you gonna sit down are you GNA stand for the whole thing ready oh okay he's ready to ready to he's ready to pledge uh good morning everyone this is a regularly scheduled meeting of the fort Meers Beach l planning agency it's January 9th and it's 9:00 a.m. if you would please stand for the invocation and the Pledge of Allegiance Al to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all so today is a national day of morning uh in respect of the passing of President Jimmy Carter so if we all could just going to request that we be refunded the fees but I understand that has to go before the councel okay all right may I be excused yes sir thank you thank you very much Happy New Year to to Bob so that's a change to your agenda um the special exception is not possible without the variances unless we're saying that our code no longer requires anything shared parking lots Bob Bob Bob barant could some could somebody grab the guy in the gray jacket Bob I mean that's unless we just determine that shared parking lots never no longer have criteria so what Miss Pro is referring to is the fact that these items um M made it um these items are this item this agenda item is linked to the special exception as a condition so the removal um of the variances then would not really allow you to um move forward with the special exception because it's a move forward with the special exception would you like to continue it to another meeting rather than just remove it from today's agenda continue this request to continue this to our next meeting okay and then we have a council meeting I think next week so we'll go forward with the special exception at that time and then come back and dismiss the variance request as I understand this let let if we can today before the LPA is a variance and I'm understanding that you would be okay continuing that to the next LPA meeting and before that occurs as I understand this that variance is dependent upon this special exception is that true Sarah Judith the special exception is for the shared parking lot and our code requires re Ires certain um dimensional Landscaping a variety of requirements that the current the the current layout of the parking lot does not meet so if we were to say that this is a shared parking lot we'd then have to Grant the variances that are requested unless we're telling them they have to meet our landscaping and dimensional requirements so that really goes to the substance of of the two requests um today the only item before you is uh more of a procedure Dr one um if we just push this to uh the next LPA hearing we'll work with Mr uh with the attorney and figure out what what they want to do my understanding was at the last meeting that the special exception allowed us to park under the code allow us to par I don't really want to go into the merits of that um at this time because I don't have it in front of me and I can't do an analysis with you're suggesting that we continue this until the next LPA hearing which would be when Sarah speak up so I'm not sure that there's any value in continuing it because the special exception will not be valid until such time as the variances are approved that's right they they really have to go as one I disagree okay two separate issues on procedurally I think that at this point if this item that is on your agenda today if we if there's a vote to approve to continue it that will allow us time after this meeting to review the special exception and see what the next step would be the special exception has already been granted okay I again I don't really want to get into the merits of it at this time Sarah the special exception was continued at yesterday's Town council meeting so it is not granted it was recommended for approval by the LPA it will be heard at the Town Council on the 21st uh we were hoping that since that one got continued that this would be heard today day so that when it goes to the Town Council for um final approval final approval or or denial whichever they choose um that we would also have the conditions which are the variants the variances um available for them to also evaluate okay so so just write this second is way too much time on an item that is out of order so Bob I think you should stay here and when this item comes up we'll discuss all these particulars okay thank you yes thank you all right so the only other item um as far as your agenda today is um it's really one big ask one project however it has been broken up into two um ordinances because there's two separate actions that um need to be taken however they are related and that's um your public hearing item a and your public hearing Item B um I think that the order of presentation um we would really be focusing more on Item B first in the discussion and then um going into item a the title to item a has changed um a bit um since what is recorded in your packet um and I'm happy to read the titles for both of them um as you move forward in your agenda thank you Nancy okay any other changes to the agenda which all essentially we've done at this point is move me to top okay uh if there are none moved thank you Jim second thank you Jane uh any objection to the motion the motion carries unanimously the next item is an approval of minutes for December 3rd and December 10th are there any changes or additions to those minutes hearing none may I have a motion to approve them as distributed so moved thank you Jim thank you Dom uh any discussion on that motion hearing none the motion carries unanimously and now we're to P Elis we have Madam chair yes ma'am can you excuse Doug gekman please yes I'm sorry I should have done that um could I have a motion please to Grant an excused absence to Doug so move s thank you Don thank you John uh any objection to that motion all right so Doug thank you uh Amy for reminding me of that okay so the next item is public comment and this public comment should be on items that are not public hearings so anything in general does anybody have anything to say seeing none we'll move on to the first public hearing Nancy thank you so again um these are two separate ordinances which will require two separate recommendations from you however because they are related I'm going to read the title first to the the second ordinance which is expanding the boundary um or excuse me including additional Parcels in the existing resoning um designation Nancy before you do that can I ask you a procedural question will we need to have are these these still will be two separate cases so there need to be a motion on b and a motion on a yes okay thank you um however um these our quasi judicial hearings yes so we will need to go through our standard procedures for quasi judicial um what you have on your agenda today um item a is a request for a resoning Item B is also a request for a resoning item C is a request for a variance and item D is a request for a special exception and then again and there is another request for a variance so all of these items that you have in your um public hearings today these are all quasi judicial in nature and these require that our public hearings comply with procedural requirements that have been established in Florida law and in our Land Development code so these quasi judicial proceedings today they will be less formal than proceedings before a circuit court but they are going to to be more formal than the remainder of your meeting and we must follow the basic standards of due process which requires that certain notices be made that we apply the correct standards in our code and in Florida law and that your decisions are made on competent and substantial evidence that will be presented to you in written forms uh in written documents or through oral testimony your job then is to evaluate the testimony and the information that you get for each of the agenda items and draw a conclusion as to whether the criteria in the Land Development code or in state law as applicable has been satisfied so pure speculation or opinion that is not based on competent facts cannot legally be considered by the LPA in evaluating an agenda item so testimony by individuals who have been qualified as experts in a particular are area has been considered competent evidence by Florida courts as well as testimony by neighbors and residents who have fact-based information such as minutes surveys engineering reports or testimony that is based on their personal information if you intend to speak um we do have quite a number of individuals in the audience today when you come forward please state your name clearly for the record and whether or not you have been sworn in we do have some variance requests on your agenda today and I need to advise everyone that an a unanimous decision by eligible voting members of the LPA to approve a variance shall constitute final agency action subject to a request by anyone for an additional hearing or review of the matter by the Town Council if that request for the additional hearing is received by the town clerk within 10 days of today's meeting so for purposes of efficiency um before we begin these public hearings uh we would like to go ahead and dispose of a few uh matters for all the agenda items my first question will be to the town clerk and to ask if all the agenda items have been properly noticed pursuant to Our Land Development code yes they have been thank you thank you and at this time too I need to ask the LPA members if anyone has a conflict of interest on any of the agenda items to please disclose that at this time so that we can assure um ourselves that we have a quorum present for each item John do you have any conflicts no conflict Jim no conflict Jim none none none Jim I don't have any either thank you great okay so the next part um that we need to address is um anyone in the audience the applicant as well as staff who is intending to provide testimony to the LPA on any of the agenda items if you would please stand and raise your right hand and be sworn in by the town clerk do you solemnly swear and affirm that the testimony you are about to be give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth okay all parties have been sworn thank you than you so now um Madame chair I think that we're ready to begin with our uh first agenda items and as I mentioned um the first two items are are somewhat interrelated so I am going to go ahead and read the title to both of those items and um staff will do a brief introduction and then I believe the uh the applicant is present with their experts and and um they will do a comprehensive um presentation on both and thereafter you would take separate votes on on each item thank you Nancy so the first title reads an ordinance of the Town Council of Fort Meers Beach Florida approving approving with conditions denying an amendment to the commercial plan development CPD zoning previously approved by resolution 0728 for Parcels at 2500 and 2510 EST stero Boulevard generally identified as strap numbers 19- 46-24 W3 0120 a010 19- 46-24 dw3 d 01324 to add Parcels located at 2518 Estero Boulevard and 2543 Cottage Avenue generally identified as strap numbers 19 46-24 dw3 d130 1-4 19- 46-24 W3 d0120 a point 013a in Fort Meyer speech providing for other clarifications as necessary providing for conflicts of law scribers error severability and providing for an effective date the title to uh your agenda item a um has been changed slightly so I'm going to read the um the new title and that is a ordinance of the Town Council of Fort Meers Beach Florida approving approving with conditions denying the rezoning of the property located at um 25 2510 and 2518 Estero Boulevard and 2543 Cottage Cottage Avenue generally identified as strap numbers 19- 46-24 dw3 d 0120 [Music] a0100 19- 46-24 dw3 D 01324 19- 46-24 W3 d013 01.00 4 Z 19- 46-24 dw3 -120 a13a in Fort Meyers Beach from CPD to a new CPD to allow mixed use development including residential lodging office commercial Civic and cultural uses as identified as further identified in attached ex uh schedule a of uses in exhibit a uh providing for other clarification as necessary providing for conflicts of law scrier error severability and providing for an effective date thank you Nancy one clarification so we were handed the yes and that's changed slightly changed toly just slightly to uh coincides um specifically with the schedule of uses which is attached as exhibit a got thank you thank you Jen and if I can so basically um the title for um Item B is adding two additional Parcels to the project and then um agenda item a um is rezoning the four Parcels um as a project thank you NY Jim do you have any exper I met with the applicant and the representativ neighborhood group thank you how about you joh uh no J uh Jin I met with the applicant um several weeks ago John uh I've met with the applicant as well as the neighborhood company uh I think just prior to Christmas uh I've also had a site visit to look at the uh and receive multiple emails as I believe we all have uh on this project uh I actually uh first met the son-in-law Dan at an urgent care center um and then I had a a conversation with um with the applicants and um the neighborhood group I'm very well acquainted with the property I should amend mine I have received you also went to the Urgent Care no no I did not go to the Urgent Care nor did I meet the applicant there I did meet with the neighborhood company on this one but I the uh I did see all the emails from the the emails were circulated to everyone okay okay so um representatives of the applicant uh through the neighborhood group um you've heard the disclosures do you have any additional questions regarding any of the disclosures that were made no okay can we stay up there um so can we identify who's going to be presenting today and who's been qualified as an exer again my name is Ken Gander with the neighborhood company I have been found as an expert before this body in the town we also have other individuals yes we they've been found as experts can we just identify who they are so we know who our experts are going to be we have Patrick bz who has been qualified yes Mr Brandon Frey with j who's been the civil engineering found as an expert as well is there anyone else in the audience that uh through their testimony today would like to be considered as an expert in uh on this matter okay seeing none anything else need well just a couple more housekeeping okay for the applicant um you've received a copy of the agenda materials yes okay and um let's see I think that's um I think that's about it if you think of something else let me know I will okay all right so um thank you all so we'll um ask Judith to come up and present the case to begin with good morning Judith Frankle principal planner town of Fort Meers Beach um what what I'd like to do because there are two items here we're going to talk about is give you um kind of a summary and a little bit of the history of this particular um application and and what you're seeing before you because there's been um you know a number of of emails and I want to address a little bit of that um to start off um so in your agenda um there's uh The Item B is really about changing the the boundaries of the property um there was was a resolution in 2007 it's resolution number 07281 Estero Boulevard and what was approved in that resolution um the the um the resolution refers to an option a and an option b and the um LP at that time disapproved option b in there and approved option A so if you're looking at that original resolution it's a little bit um confusing um because we're talking about A and B but only a was approved there and you can see that um that Master concept plan with that original uh resolution now since that time um the the uh property owner purchased two adjacent properties um and that's 2518 Estero Boulevard and 2543 Cottage Avenue so their first request is to add those two properties to that initial uh that previous CPD um so that's kind of what we want to address first um as part of um the application um uh what we were we decided to do initially it all came under one application and we had it all together in one ordinance um but it was decided that legally um and for cl for the town moving forward it would be best to do it under two separate ordinances so again it was initially applied for under one application and then we've we've divided it into two ordinances um for the sake of clarity and and um this the process moving forward so that's what we'll need you to um uh when it comes time to vote to vote on first the expansion of the uh the CPD boundaries to include those two additional properties Judith could I ask you a question on that so something I got kind of jumbled in my head when I was going over this was if let's say that um the Food Truck Park their concept right now is not approved but the um expansion is approved yes so the expansion then would approve and let's say the council followed suit so then their original approval for the original CPD would now just be expanded to those other two lots as well is that correct that's correct okay um they would likely need a new uh well probably need a new master concept plan if they wanted to expand that initial um uh design that they had proposed um in the old resolution if they wanted to make that larger to include those two properties that they they would have to come back to at a minimum a master concept plan but maybe also um a CPD Amendment at that time um so what we would be doing if that was approved is um changing the the Zoning for those two properties but the schedule of uses that were in 0728 those would stand they would stay at this point not the expanded uses that they're seeking and one correct okay that's Part B right so and that's part of the reason that it was divided into two parts here um part so just interesting of clarity there is we did not find there to be any conflict with the comprehensive plan or the Land Development code expansion of those it's more of an addition um but legally we're sunsetting one and we're bringing in the new schedule of uses but there's a lot of overlap between those two schedules um but then there there is a new mCP Master concept plan which is the food concept that's going to be presented to you so are we clear on just just a question so we approve the the ultimate request M which then combines and overlaps is going to be a clear delineation of what from the currently approved uses are maintained and which ones go away yes so what will happen legally and for our purposes in town hall is the other one will no longer be valid and it'll be completely replaced by this new document the new ordinance that Nancy read in and that was part of what we were trying to to make sure that that was clear it's gone for good yes um uh that doesn't preclude them the option of coming back in the future for an amendment they they'll have those um if if the boundaries are approved they'll have those boundaries in place and if you know then they could come back and ask for something else in the future thank you okay so that's that's part of I think that there was some confusion in the the public as well about this um and in the applicants narrative talks a lot about option b option b um there's not going to be any options there's not an option A it's not an option this is the plan option A is going to go away and then we'll have this new master concept plan and um this new schedule of uses that'll go with the CPD if approved okay excellent okay so I wouldn't worry too much about what was there before the schedule of uses now that's being presented to you is a complete um schedule okay okay so the other thing I wanted to um address as well which is a little bit different um sometimes when we talk about the um the conditions of a approval um those are boilerplate items you know having to comply with all state and federal guidelines things like that um in this case it's quite a lengthy um uh list of conditions here and we've included that specifically with the um with the ordinance um and that's what uh in the packet that we delivered to you this morning it's also in the the um the published agenda as well but just for clarity um I wanted all of those conditions listed out because they really impact how the food C food truck um par will be run um uh other municipalities have regulations governing food truck par this is become somewhat increasing in in popularity in in other places um we do not have specific regulations governing food truck Parks as an entity um we do have regulations about the food trucks themselves but this is um something different for Fort Meyer's Beach so um in the applicant's presentation they have some proposed changes to what what I've laid out um and we can talk about that after the presentation but I wanted to specifically draw your attention to that because in those conditions we're um essentially writing out what the regulations for that par would be because the the town's Land Development code does not have our own regulations specifically for um Food Truck Park so I wanted to call your attention to that as well um so couple questions on that so since we don't specifically outline and Define food truck rules and regulations where did you pull from to create your list of conditions that's a good question um thanks so the what the applicant did that was very helpful is they provided us with um the U regulations from three other local municipalities um Bonita Springs Fort Meyers and cap Coral um and so um I took some of those from there the um the applicant that the has proferred some additional things over there which they're going to they're going to go over as well some additional conditions um specifically to Fort Meers Beach um but we did look at those other municipalities and what they're doing there and trying to consider how to best minimize the potential for nuisance so there's there's um language in there about um hours of operation sound um so follow up then Madam attorney is can we create conditions as criteria that are not based in code with the town today and de facto make those the codes for future applicants they're not de facto for future applicants but for this particular applicant before you today if you feel that those conditions are valid you can include them as conditions in this um proposal even though they're not addressed in other legislation predating the application today yes okay John did you want to say something yeah I have a uh a question about the document that was just given to us the ordinance it seems as I read it that it actually includes the previous uses including residential lodging retail office cultural facilities yes that that part is going to be um you're talking about the body yes yes that's going to be amended to coincide with the title that I had read I see just because there's a little bit of a discrepancy between that language and the schedule of uses that will be attached as believe it's exhibit a um well it seems counter to me that the title and it within the body it outlines those uses of the previous option A that's right right that that's going to change to be consistent with the schedule of uses and conditions of approval that the applicant's going to present to you today the ordinance that you have is a draft um however we do believe that the title is correct um but the the text in the ordinance itself is going to change to be consistent but just to just to be clear they are maintaining some of those uses that they are not proposing to use now so the the Food Truck Park is one and the the commercial parking lot is you know the their proposed uses now um but they are maintaining that the some of those uses that they're not proposing to actually conduct now that were in the previous resolution it's not that uncommon they're kind of maintaining the you think about you know because it's the zoning they're maintaining the Zoning for the property um so if they were in the future to come back um to do an amendment it would be a little bit simpler to say like okay well we were already approved for the zoning to be able to do commercial or umed their proposed schedule of uses we could provide copies of that so that way you know what the correct it is in the it's in the it's in the package and they're going the existing ones plus food service restaurant bar mobile vendor trans Merchants outdoor seating etc etc what page is that uh page 173 174 of 385 I guess what was confusing to me was what I heard with the narrative in the beginning was all of that was going to be replaced and only the new but what you're saying is the new will include the previous schedule some of the previous schedule uses yes that's now clear to me so when you have a CPD it's basically providing a new zoning category and a zoning category itself can have multiple types of uses within it some which may be actually used and some which may not be don't understand you know I think that was I can't remember who sent the email but the one of the emails uh it struck me that that was that person's concern that what is it actually going to be I mean everyone's focused on this Truck Park but is it a food truck Park and a store and a and and and and what do they actually know is going to be constructed there I think it creates a little bit of ambiguity maybe maybe I miss maybe if that person is here who who I don't I'm sorry I don't recall who sent that email but there was somebody that was just like unsure about what's it really going to be they have all this availability what's this really going to be and so because because you're approving or you would be reviewing the um the CPD together with the master concept plan the only thing they would actually be able to do now on the master is what's on the master concept plan but then they would be allowed to come back later for an amendment that would come for you if they decided to do something else with the property and change the master concept yes yes all right um like the red C like the red c um the other thing I wanted to draw your attention to before you hear the applicant's presentation is the parking calculation um again to um Mr dunlap's point we don't have specific regulations on the food trucks so the um applicant has presented parking regulations that were are utilized in those three other municipalities and they have very similar parking um count requirements and it's based on the number of the vendor um and that's what they're proposing to adhere to here um that seems appropriate um because that's you know the the regulations that's been worked out in in other locations um uh but you should all think about whether not you feel that you know you're in agreement with that and you feel like that's appropriate because they are asking in addition to the Food Truck Park and the parking that goes with the food truck Park commercial parking lot as well so some of those spots would be dedicated for the Food Truck Park and other um spots would be you know paid parking um you know potentially for people going to the beach or or those kinds of activities so and the paid parking could go 24 hours a day unless you address that in the conditions but in the proposed ordinance it's 24 hours a day one I I would you know suggest that you you know take that into consideration yeah um so I'm I'm here for any questions I apologize for the the kind of trickiness of this but there's like a history to the property and so we're trying to to follow that and try to make it clearer for uh moving forward um uh I did want to address one thing that I heard a lot in the emails it's not necessarily related to the the application and that's about noticing um uh it's policy um not policy in the Land Development codes that's very specific um and that regulation could be more robust um to send out postcards to the um properties in 500 foot radius um what we do just so you're aware of our procedure is we use Lepa to determine that 500 um foot radius and we use the addresses that are provided by Lea so if you own a property on Fort Meers be but your address is registered someplace else because that's where you've directed Lea to send your your mail that's where we send your postcard to so if the postcard has to go out of state you know that takes more time um sometimes we have um especially since the hurricane postcards returned to us because the there's no forwarding address or um number of conditions in in this case I have not heard that many postcards have been returned um so they may be in transit navigating the the mail system um that is something we could look into um adjusting in the future we have talked about um changing the policy on that but we we have heard those comments from the public so I didn't want that to go un addressed how far how far in advance are they mailed what would did the holidays create a an issue this time right so um Town Hall was closed um December 31st and January 1st um and the person who usually does it was um not available on the 30th so the postcards went out on the 2nd which is a week prior to the meeting that isn't okay well thank you thank you for addressing that Judith okay so the applicant is here they have a presentation as Nancy said they're going to talk about A and B together because it's really all part of one application for them um um also I want to thank staff we've been working on this for a while as most of these projects and as Judith spoke on it's uh it's something different it's nothing that's in the code as per se now so that is a good point on the uh number of conditions but that's something that we feel is appropriate to ensure we have that quality project uh that's based on uh the zoning and amendments that we're proposing here um hey work um so just a little bit of the introductions our applicant the property owner is Empire holding cor trustee for and Trust uh we have here uh Mr James our hotka president I'd also be remissed I unfortunately did include uh Debbie hodka as well who is here and Dan Meyers representative of the applicant and they'll be doing a little bit of some background kind of giving a perspective from their Point again uh the team that worked on the project again myself Laura and uh I also apologies I don't have Mr vaness on our little list here but he forget him sometimes sometimes it's hard when you share an office but uh and also with our civil engineering Jr Evans uh Mr Brandon fry uh as well so just real quick I want to to uh just hit on some of the prein uh aspects of the project and the overall subject property which we're speaking at this point in time looking at the encompassing the four Parcels but I'll go into that down the line is you may have all recalled it was the Monkey Duck but it was also some other uh house names Holmes house and smitties so has a smitties about Smitt yeah it has a history of being a a project restaurant there was the two single family dwellings and those also uh identified the especially the one uh along Aero Boulevard it also incomp some commercial it was a hair salon uh prior to it uh being destroyed but back to early on in the early 2000s the unfortunate circumstances of another event the Hurricane Charlie uh damaged uh the restaurant so that was removed and demolished and as we talked about before in 2007 the for the majority of the property or subject property that we're looking at um has the commercial plan development the CPD approval per resolution 0728 and that allowed for again a combination of mixture of uses retail office up to around 10,000 square feet and also some Dwelling units that were a part of that then so what I want to do now is I want uh Jamie Debbie and Dan the applicant to be able to give a little bit more background of uh them acquiring the properties why they acquire the properties kind of some the things that they've went through over the over time that has led us to this point Jamie before you begin could I ask you were were you here when we were getting sworn in okay hi I'm Jamie hutka uh I live at 3670 stald Boulevard uh Debbie and I bought our first home on Fort Meers Beach 13 years ago it was 2518 Estero we we loved that little cottage and uh but we outgrew it we had eight grandkids and we needed a larger house so we we bought this 100-year Old Log Cabin with a mother-in-law quarters down there at 3670 and uh while we were living there at 258 Aero then they were widening a stero and putting all the lanes in and they were staging in that lot next door and it's just every morning at 6:00 a.m. beep beep beep beep beep beep and you understand hearing it now but uh I decided to contact the owner to try and buy it well I did not need a lot but I figured that would be for my grandkids and it would be for my children so I put it in a trust and uh that way they can have that when they grow up well Ian came along and nobody expected it and it took the the two income properties that we had it took 2518 and cottage away and now we're paying well just right around $100,000 in taxes and not no income coming in from any of our properties on the island so we decided well why don't we do something to create income uh a couple years back we we proposed a family entertainment center on this property it was a it was a huge building and uh it had games and stuff for families and that's that's really what our whole goal was but it just not in the cards right now that ended really with the town staff they just didn't like the idea which was fine uh so we talked about maybe a parking lot a commercial parking lot and then talking to some of the vendors that are on the island uh they're going to be kicked off once they start building there's no room for them so I thought well we could provide that we'll provide a place to put the trailers that way we can put some food truck trailers and uh we went through a lot of consideration a lot of changes in that time and we're good neighbors I mean you could see that we took that lot and we didn't want people to park on it and we put Christmas Palms every 30 foot in post and rope but not to keep people on it people would go on it and they'd drink and they'd have pit park for free we tried to keep people off on it but I didn't want to just put an ugly fence up I wanted to put some sort of barrier that was presentable to everybody because I love this beach and I want it to look good uh well going on we we decided that we were going to put in a food Food Truck Park we we saw something we liked in Bonita and uh it was very family oriented and you know we wanted something that would be a plus to the community when we'd have public restrooms we'd have bike racks we'd have you know water fill stations for water bottles that way people on bikes could enjoy it it's right at beach access 26 we were going to call it access 26 and originally we thought do it temporary and I I guess the town staff didn't like the temporary part of it so we decided that let's and I guess everything's temporary because if the people don't want it they won't come and and but we decided to make it more permanent and we've gone through a bunch of changes trying to address a lot of the letters as far as the noise we put up a permanent building uh that way it would buffer the noise on the pool area but uh I I think that's all I have to say as I said I I think we're good neighbors we're Good Samaritans and we will be good stewards of the property and I'll let Debbie talk from a little bit about the family so thank you thank you um I'm Debbie hotka I also live at 3670 esto I also live at 3670 Estero somewhere on the Coconut Telegraph I got that we aren't residents here but we are and have been for a long time um we the season that our family in is in is we're constantly looking for things our grand kids come and visit a lot as you saw and we're always looking for things for families to do I mean there's beaches and bars so that's why we thought of the family entertainment center so as this idea came up uh we were like what do we want the field to be so we went took a field trip to all the food truck parks and the one in Bonita was the one we liked it was it was peaceful it was it was uh well planned out it was quiet it had games for the kids to do so the parents could sit and enjoy themselves and the kids could play all these games and Dan is our game Comer uper um at family events so um so we've been picking his brain to kind of come up with things for kids to do we want uh the people from the ballparks to come over we we want we want it to be a family place um because that's that's the focus of our family our the little ones and a so that's that's what we want the field to be it we don't want it it's not going to be a late night party place it's it's going to be um the like I said the kids from the ballparks can come over in between games families can come we what we're envisioning is it will become the tradition for families that are coming to visit the beach they're like we're not even going to look drive around looking for a parking lot we're going to go to access 26 we're going to go to the beach we'll come up for lunch um and then go back to the beach and then at the end of the day rinse off the kids and let them get a slushie um we'll sit and relax we'll get in our car and we'll go home get in the traffic but that's what we see hopefully um the the feel we wanted to have the vibe we wanted to have and that's what we'd like to see start happening so thank you Debbie thank you Jamie good morning everyone my name is d um Dan Myers I'm one of the property owners um so Jamie and Debbie both had a lot of key points and our goal for this project uh and it really stemmed from after Ian the the businesses we loved the the the little restaurants um that are gone the names that we loved the mangoritas the top of mass which is an old name but um tuck away is Royal Scoops all these businesses that we came every time we came here we frequented in these spots the ones that are trying to make the attempt back um that we see now the familiar old businesses that were pre and that are trying to in a food truck down trying to make their way back in the big concern is that as rebuilding happens that they're booted they're going to get booted off these Lots as they're putting buildings up and I I fear losing the names that I've Loved for the past 20 years they're going to be off the beach and if they're off the beach I don't know if they'll come back um if they lose their identity on the beach um you know will they make it back if they go off Island for a year can they afford to come back or find a brick and mortar so I really hope that this the spot is almost an incubator for these businesses one to maintain their presence on the island and then two hopefully to get them in a brick mortar to continue their fan base uh so they can can either continue to maintain or grow um I I think reading through these emails and I understand neighbors I I get the neighborhood situation uh we don't own another lot I can't put this somewhere else because we don't have another property but I think there's a big fear that I I hope to mitigate or or have people understand that we're not bringing Time Square to your backyard music is not the goal the goal is not to to blare you out and to have these parties that's not our vision for this project um so I think that's the biggest thing for me is that I kind of see this more as a quiet nice place get lunch as Debbie was saying you know you have a place to use the restroom go to the beach come back up but this is not your last St on the way home I mean I love the Shamrock I loved the Shamrock um but that was the last stop on your walk home and that's not this spot we all know in the summertime for Myers dies at 8:00 p.m. so I know our hours I think we're asking from 7:00 to 10: p.m. but that's not going to be the year rounds hours that we'll probably operate under based on you know the the the needs um of this project but I just want to say a couple things introduce myself thank you Dan so I think that gave us a pretty good background and where we're headed so I now I again get the pleasure of taking you kind of through the the technical and some of the the Dynamics that have let us hear uh that Judith explained but um the moving forward you know our plan really focuses comprehensively on some essential Concepts that unique opportunity as the town redevelops and supporting those businesses as Dan spoke of that want to come back and is this that opportunity to do this uh that family friendly destination for food and fun entertainment uh putting the investment in a lasting quality uh development as Jamie mentioned you know it started out as something a little bit innocuous but it it evolved through the input with staff and through the input uh as our one-on ones with all of you and and the input that we've received uh uh from the public and the contributing benefits overall to the community while working to uh complement the location where we are in that heart of the island so the overall request and it encompasses uh the two components uh the the ordinances that were described initially so we're looking at overall four Parcels uh just under uh7 Acres we're in the future land use category of Boulevard which allows for these mixture of commercial and residential uses our existing zoning again through the explanations prior we have commercial plan development parcel is Commercial Boulevard and other partials residential multifam and through this these ordinances we're wanting to expand that boundary uh to include the CB and RMF properties and then having the proper Master concept plan supporting scheduled uses the development standards to allow for the added uses uh of specifically the vending a mobile vending Park and the commercial parking lot um through this the comprehensive plan the Land Development code allows us to work through this process uh under uh the underlying zoning the CB you have to go through a plan development to have some of these commercial properties commercial uses so that's why we're coming back to you to uh clean this up and uh present this before you so this image this is a uh aiel and this shows the existing CPD boundary and the two Parcels uh under the current zoning the CPD zoning what we're proposing is that boundary gets expanded to Encompass those two other Parcels the resulting is that boundary and that area of the subject property that we're looking at here again we're in the heart of the island uh Vision a mixture of uses which includes obviously the residential and Commercial and it's to serve the residents and visitors of the of the town and those that are coming to Fort Meers Beach to enjoy uh the various aspects especially the beach and the amenities that it provides again it's a transitional area between that downtown core area the active Time Square it's called Time Square for a purpose it's it's elusive or not elusive but uh emulates that that scene uh versus The Quiet Center which is down farther down the way on a stair but what's great about this area and uh this parcel in proximity to all parts of the town it's a convenient walk really you could walk between 5 and 15 minutes you could get downtown within 10 to 15 minutes uh or a bike ride easy bike ride so this is a great area that can be conducive to all those mobility and options uh to get to this property line sooner rather than later and just right across the street is the Mom's restaurant which is a current uh active uh m vending site then you have some higher density residential through the Diamond Head Resort surf song Pelican watch tropical Shores all the way down the road to the Caper Beach Club and then we know of what is Future the potential coming online more heads and beds s to speak you have the Estero Island Beach Club the Neptune Resort and myerside and you have the campus where we are right now the temporary Town Hall but we have the Bay Oaks Campus and what Debbie was mentioning is you have active families in this area that are going to that recreational area so it can be a complimentary and conducive environment uh for this use and we're at beach access 26 but right obviously just down the road is 25 and just on the other side is 27 so we have some active public beach access points um and with the approved CPD uh what was found compatible before the multif family residential lodging opportunities the office retail daycare and the cultural facilities those were uses that were found compatible with the surrounding areas and again to reiterate those are being proposed overall carried forward uh uh to our overall schedule of uses that would be inclusive of uh the mobile vending and the commercial parking lot looking at our uh the site um we're going to kind of just jump this is our Master concept plan but we're looking at in the northeastern corner is the area of the mobile vending uh Park uh we have a minimum of five pads that we're proposing uh those surround a the outdoor entertainment the recreational area uh we have a uh area for further outdoor seating that engages the Astera Boulevard pathway uh right just can I just ask you something you just stuck me you said a minimum of five so is there a maximum so that's going to be something I want to speak on in our conditions okay because that is laid out in our condition I kind of want to go through that because that was something that we've been going back and forth with staff on in terms of we understand that potential limitation but we have a perspective on the uh minimum aspect of it um also with incorporating and has been discussed and we'll be highlighting this further in our conditions is the hours of operation limiting those and limiting the type of outdoor entertainment uh that would be uh a component of the the park component uh all of the mobile vending pads will have full utility hookups underground so power water sewer that will all be uh uh utiliz through uh a hookup uh infrastructure so no generators will be running etc etc through our evolution of the project and it was spoken before we've added what we're calling the park support structure and that is in the poran just to the right of the main outdoor seating area you can see that light that LI or dark uh uh geometric shape that's where the park support structure would be located obviously it can fluctuate based on the design as when we go through development order but what that structure will do is one it provides again that element of buffering there used to be obviously a structure at that point that was the single family home in that general area uh so we're utilizing that in essence the same footprint of that additionally we want to provide there'll be obviously employees managing the property so they will have office space there'll be storage within there and then to complement the mobile vending is a beverage service counter so that would provide for various beverages uh to uh uh from beer and wine which we are limiting uh the consumption on premises to just beer and wine not be a full liquor license uh for the property uh and then uh I've spoke to the outdoor seating along a stero Boulevard uh we are ensuring that we have that proper pestering connectivity onto the site uh one of the you can see there's uh multiple access points the dark arrows we have our primary access point off of Chapel Street and this is consistent with the driveway that is across the street it's uh and is also consistent with what the master concept plan uh it's currently approved has that actually was a little farther north but either way we have to seek that deviation for that distance separation because of just the shape of the property and the ability for us to locate that and the code requires the primary access point has to be off of cannot be on a stero Boulevard the town asks those to be located on the side streets there is an existing curb cut that obviously went to the existing single family home on a stero Boulevard we want to maintain that for the ability for additional pedestrian connections as people are coming and going from the property but that is going to be a restricted and controlled access where the vendors will be able to come and go uh onto the property they'll have be a series of removable ballards uh it'll be decorative won't be this big gate but it'll be something uh that would restrict and be able to access the property from that point the other aspect in the majority of the property is the parking the commercial and it's a paid to park uh uh Endeavor it's supporting of the food truck as well and within that area is where the storm water management that's the hatched area and that obviously will be designed and ensure compliance with all permitting and requirements for uh the storm water management for the project we uh were able to do some conceptual renderings and I just want to quickly go through uh some of these this is a view uh looking South towards um looking at the mobile vending part uh portion of the uh the project and you can see the access point uh at the bottom of the screen there uh the outdoor seating and the surrounding uh the food truck and then the main support Park structure in the back corner moving down towards uh along a stero Boulevard showing more of the parking orientation accessibility biycle parking uh connectivity into the site uh one element that that is important and we think is vital uh to this area is ensuring that it is a visually appealing and we have that uh we want a lot of Green Space we want that Ambiance of a lot of greenery and we are proposing enhancements to the required Landscaping uh uh code requirements so we're wantan need to go above and beyond that as part of uh that project this is looking from the corner of Aero and Chapel in towards the project corner of chapel and cottage now looking North an extensive buffering amount of landscaping double hedge rows Etc along that South Side along Cottage Avenue this is looking Southwest from Estero Boulevard looking at the uh towards the vending Park area and I want to maybe go back to one element that we've worked on is our neighbors with Pelican watch and we know that their pool and that's where their pool location was and the code requires uh when you have your buffering uh you have the Landscaping so and fencing requirements so we would have potentially have a fence and then you have to have your Landscaping on the other side of the fence towards the adjacent property and their project with building rebuilding their pool and whatnot that the pool you have to have a secured fencing element as well so you have fence Landscaping fence so we are uh proposing to enhance our Landscaping along that but not have uh another fence there simply because of the maintenance and management of trying to get back in there to control you know the vegetation and whatnot it just doesn't make that sense and utilizing the structure as that fencing component satisfies the intent so I just wanted to make that uh make that point here so this is uh ground level looking from Estero Boulevard toward towards the conceptual building again you know this is not set in stone in terms of uh the look but it gives you an idea where the U uh components of the building and one area that I think I failed to emphasize as part of the park support structure is what we're calling the Comfort station and uh Dan and Jamie spoke to this is this would be publicly accessible bathroom foot wash or Beach shower uh water fountains etc for the public to be able to use obviously for those patrons of the park as well but it's a component that we have in other projects and what we've been hearing is your each access points kind of need a little bit more amenities for those visiting for those visitors and we are providing for that with this project this is looking more from the other angle from the parking lot towards uh the outdoor entertainment to the outdoor recreational seating area and the support structures in the back so our proposed uh looking at the added uses of the mobile vending commercial parking lot uh compatibility again this is a complimentary and consistent with that intent of a mixture of uses existing and uh envisioned for that heart of the island uh we feel they're consistent with the prior approved uh CPD and the standards and the uses that were being desired to be carried forward were significantly uh providing an enhanced landscaping and buffer element to the project our site utilizing that structure as where it used to the structure used to be in terms of helping that buffering uh between our uh neighbors and the activity that's going on in the middle of the project in the recreational area and the actual food trucks our connection and commitment to having the food truck and the vendors uh connect to the utilities and then I'll be going again as I mentioned to you Anita is further drilling down on those conditions uh to help ensure that compatibility hour of operation Etc a little SI here regards to transportation we originally when we were starting the project out we were granted a waiver as what we're proposing in terms of the added uses uh would not increase any of the density obviously there's no density associated with a commercial parking lot or the mobile vending uses uh beyond what was approved parking Judith uh spoke to this uh town of Fort Meers Beach does not have parking standards specifically for mobile vending food trucks we provided an analysis and is part of your packet that we did that outlined our research looking at towns that do have uh standards Ben Springs K coral for s that takes us to uh we developed the table on the right which is taken out of the analysis that we did uh we determined three parking spaces per mobile vending transient Merchant and one additional parking space per 15 seats so we're proposing that five mobile vendors uh pads which equals 15 parking spaces estimating um around 75 seats for patrons on the site that equates to five spaces that's 20 spaces required for that element then we have the park support structure something that we've added uh we have obviously square footage that needs to be addressed the utilizing of the office space uh the beverage service counter area that would add 6 and a half spaces we are providing for bike parking we're going to be doing more than four bike spaces uh but we're only applicable to apply for one Park vehicle parking space reduction so that gives us a required number of 26 our overall parking is uh providing 45 so next uh our through our review process and Judith explained this as well uh there's just nothing in place regulatory wise for food vendor Food Park food trucks so we have proposed I think we're at around 27 conditions again some of those are pretty standardized you know your permitting requirements prior to do etc etc but um what I wanted to do here is I've highlighted some of these in green but for convenience um I have handout that has all these so you can scribble on them or you know provide your notes Etc thank you Ken for purposes again I've highlighted something that I really wanted to concentrate on but uh you know number one the option A I think that's all been pretty clarified of what when we get to the second ordinance which provides for the scheduled uses and the master concept plan that I just went through providing for the area for mobile vending uh the commercial parking uh in essence kind of with number two and referencing the deviations it's going to be an approved Master concept plan there's no A or B remaining is the intent so uh condition number three uh these are outlining our buffers on along Chapel Street 10 wide 10 foot wide buffer Min four trees uh which equates six trees three foot high hedge plant in staggered row this is consistent with what was Prior approved uh under the current resolution um again we feel that that's appropriate for that location uh we are amenable to uh increasing that if need be but we feel what we are presenting here is appropriate for that location the East property line uh this is uh extending from a stable to our structure which uh the park support structure which is approximately 30 ft we would provide that 10t wide buffer minimum of eight trees uh within that area and a three foot high hedge planted double staggered roads that's uh enhancement from what code requires from uh from the uh and along the structure there would be a 5 foot wide buffer and that would provide for a minimum of 10 trees per 100 linear feet that is above and beyond what a 5 foot uh common boundary buffer would require as well so along the Southeastern portion that's due to the unique configuration of the property that would be against the there's a new single family home that's being built if you look it's up on columns that's where this portion of the property would be this is an enhancement as well a 10ft wide buffer we are providing a fence in this area minimum of eight trees and double stag row of of hedge hedge Hedges there as well then along Cottage Street uh 10 foot wide buffer minimum of eight trees per lary feet and three foot high hedge planted staggered row and that again if you recall the renderings we tried to emulate these buffers in that area condition four this is uh Anita what we were speaking on staff had maximum we had originally proposed minimum so our perspective and you got to look at the condition both sentences so the end of the condition says any additional mobile vendors which would be Beyond five that we're stating here or any additional that we're proposing would still have to come back to the town for approval but what we're seeing is in terms of the minimum that gives the town that commitment that we're trying to have and provide those number of pads for those businesses to locate to we don't want to just have one pad we just don't want to be maximized with those that kind of limit um it's also commit to set uh the ability for any comparable and I believe Jim this was what you're speaking to before is the potential for another mobile vending Park to come down the line what kind of Standards or what kind of recollection obviously every project should be looked at independently of one another but if without those regulations or those in place what could be emulator what could be utilized from a prior approval so you kind of want to establish a baseline so the next one has to meet that or exceed that if you feel is necessary based on their circumstances so uh that's our perspective uh on that condition so Ken does the configuration you currently have drawn up allow for additional pads for vendors without going into the parking area that's correct only five we're only showing so you'd have reconfiguration as well we would have to amend the master concept plan to reflect any additional beyond that five uh Additionally the uh our Park support structure we are acknowledging that because of the relationships uh in terms of its intensity a maximum of, 1500 square feet that's basically what we could fit within that those confines of that area that we show show showed on our Master concept plan we are committing and conditioning that the mobile vendors will be food or merchandise but no cannabis or smoke Vape related merchandise vendors will be permitted within this uh Park but they don't have to be food they could be you could have a I think you have a hardware uh mobile vendor down the road that may need to relocate there so we wanted to keep that option open for potentially some merchandise consumption on premises as I mentioned before beer and wine only our hours of operation uh will be 7 to 10 seven days a week uh Mr uh James bone you spoke to wondering about the 24 hour seven days a week that is what we're proposing for the parking lot uh portion the parking lot will be managed it will be gated regulated etc etc so people the operator will know who is coming and going and who's what and where that's the so it's going to be attended 24 hours a day I don't know if it'll be a person there but it could be electronic it could have that level of component to it if I want to go to the the food truck and I pull into the parking lot do I pay or do I get so it's really a commercial lot for all of the spaces that's correct yes and if I had my traveling van with my uh my bedroom in the back like beach back this can I park here 24 hours a day the thought of that is so funny to be uh operationally but I think we can uh further condition that things like that could be yeah restricted so I think you can park there 24 hours day Dan yeah have to so relaying the information so no that that would not be a component of the intent of that parking lot so we can further so there would be no overnight parking that conflicts with 24 hours a day they have the operator think the purpose of the 24-hour if if someone um has too much to drink and leaves their car overnight if they want to pay five bucks an hour to leave their car and pick it up in the morning I think that was the purpose of it it's just it's we're not going to have it gate at allight or whatever you know we come up with okay but I'm okay with that and thank you for letting me know yes I mean everybody else may love that idea so don't just take my we don't care what I need to say uh can I ask one more question you you mentioned uh I think it was asked uh if you want to go to the food truck if you want to go to the food truck and get whatever you pay to park no matter what so there really aren't dedicated 15 spots for the yeah it's a right okay so so it's a park yeah so it's a parking lot and you pay maybe you get a credit or a voucher at a spend X and then you'll get a you know free voucher and it be scanned and automated right okay does that count as a dedicated space I mean me of you say I would think not either if you said this is here the park here's the parking for the food trucks or the let's just say the say the the other people here the here are the 15 or the other people here the here are the 15 or however many spots they however many spots they have to have to have it would seem to me that those spaces would some codes do it by square footage of your property or by the number of rooms or seeding or or that kind of thing that the parking is related to the use that's happening inside and this use is not defined in our code so this is a little bit different than some of the other things um but I would say that the expectation is that certain spots are set aside just for the um the the dedicated use that we're talking about which is the Food Truck Park in this case and they would have to show us um at development order how they're going to without without that the parking lot could be filled by noon with beach goers and you would think the food cour court area would be more popular lunchtime dinner there could be no parking spaces feels like a parking lot with an adjoining it it alludes to the shared parking opportunities at the town but the practicality isn't that can I mean the Practical use of is exactly what Jim just said you you'll sell out those parking spaces to beachgoers and then if uh if Jim brings his sleeping van down because he wants to get a he wants to get a burger or a burrito or whatever fortunately he can't he wouldn't be able to go in so it would seem to me if I were one of your vendors I wouldn't like that well and that's something that I think we will need to further drill down with so so let's talk that through a little further Judith do any the permits for the food trucks today require parking um so I believe that the food trucks that are operating now are operating through a temporary use permit but they don't require parking I don't believe so um but those are being Sunset understood yeah so if somebody pulls in to get a burger and then goes to the beach for the rest of the day they get free parking oh yeah okay I don't know why we care so much about the parking that's the that in my mind that's always been the proprietor's challenge because managing monitoring Towing enforcing that's a whole another level of administration bureaucracy that should stand separate and distinct from what the the vendors are going to know how many people are going to get here or maybe we're just trying to promote people bike riding walking and other ways to get to these food parks and when the parking lot's full it's full you bike so you'd be right so that'd be just an additional consideration um and I know Ken had referenced this being a shared parking and I think sort of the difference here is that usually when you're sharing between uses the uses kind of have a set amount that you expect them to have whereas the beach access points who knows how many I mean there's not a limit on the number of beach goers that we could have you can park at night issue there right I mean the town spots you can pay at 2 a.m. if you want yeah okay okay job I think we will likely need to drill down on that come up with um where did we leave off uh yes I think that's going to be an administrative function with the lease that they will be able to lease so many spots if they want to have them privately reserved and that would be tied into their lease that's a good idea because that's I don't know that I'd want to set aside whatever it was 25 spots and not need them and if a truck wants to take more spots that he pays for free and they can park as long as they want and I think that's an administrative function at our end notar and then you have to enforce it accordingly yeah we have toing yeah thank you very good uh eight outdoor entertainment uh 9 o' in the evening is our limit maximum for that uh will be located within the centralized area that we identified uh on our Master concept plan uh component of that area uh having Amplified music or entertainment is permitted until 9: and that would only be within that designated areas indicated on the master concept plan outdoor entertainment will be restricted to only solo Duo performers and will be oriented away uh from the surrounding Residential Properties towards a stero Boulevard this is similar to what we did for the Sandy Bottoms uh uh Master concept plan uh no bands that would we defining that as three or more performers or drums percussion and this would be un less improved through the town has their temporary use permitting uh process that would have to be reviewed and approved in order to do something Beyond this condition obviously uh again you have your sound and noise ordinance uh we would have obviously be it's a given but uh that is listed as a condition that we adhere to that uh we're committed and conditioning that we have the Comfort station restrooms outdoor shower foot rinse area hand washing and water fountain integrated within the structure uh with regards to to our parking lot area we do have a deviation uh requested that would allow for that gravel Crush shell uh uh material uh stabilized surface uh we we're a approached by staff uh wondering about the Grid or a semi- perious paer option that is on the table that is and we feel that's we could look into doing something like that obviously we're still still there's no design components to it uh it could still be asphalt or a concrete uh parking lot uh but but deviation number five would allow a gravel or crushed that's not like the pictures that show a paved parking lot that's y conceptually that's what our pictures show but we are seeking that deviation that could allow for that depending on as they're working on the designs and those ele of the project through the development order what perhaps uh the storm water management what would be appropriate in terms of the materials to support the proper storm water management right now any permanent parking has to be paved is that correct I'm I'm looking over at Jason because he's more familiar with the the parking requirements I don't believe so and and through this they can they can have the um the gravel or crushed rock the Crush Jason Smalling senior planner so in most circumstances we would utilize an asphalt but there is an option and they're requesting it now much like some of the park of the um commercial parking lots along a stero as long as it ultimately meets the storm water which is a little bit more difficult with the with the Rocks because you have to show that it will permanently or you know in perpetuity be able to be maintained as a porous material not just we threw out 57 stone and a couple years later everybody realized it's compacted and effectively imperious I I can't think of one uh commercial parking lot that is not paved nor yeah I think everyone downb by Lonnie Kai for instance all of those parking lots are I think there are a few parking lots down the beach towards the south end that may be utilizing uh asp fa in their design but I would say the main ones that we see as we come on to the beach Norms um Vonnie Kai's Lon Kai is one of the few Dave's parking lot all of those are using sand or uh Crush shell or rock the one at 27 I believe is similar it's crushed rock okay thank you Mr is now one of the earlier exhibits had a center of the parking lot that said that this was the uh environmental drainage area storm water management yes um but then subsequent of that there's parking over that now that area if you eliminated those six or eight spots would be storm water management that the rest of the parking lot could potentially drain to so I what that is proposed would be underground storm water storage and our engineer could I don't know but to to Jane's point then you could do Paving and underground storage yes yes or you could do the gravel and set and have underground storage it's just how you design that system I believe those systems can be designed with just various do you have anything to add yeah you did a great job um Brandon fry yeah in either consider in either configuration whether it's a semi-pervious or an impervious surface um I think that there would still be runoff that would have to be collected and then treated prior to discharge so you know it may be bigger or smaller predicated on whether it's perious or impervious but it's still necessary yeah you have you have to take care of your own drainage as the code on your site so yeah thank you so I think that it was proposed by the town that it be semi- and that's why you know we proposed it that way but I think we're open to either thank you uh let's see uh 14 temporary use permit for special event that coincides with what we were mentioning before about the outdoor entertainment uh is consistent with uh Town policy uh moving to 17 uh spoke to the this previously mobile vendors shall be required to connect to on site utilities generator uses only allowed I want to make this clarification when electrical service is disrupted or temporarily not available due to a designated disaster so there may be an event that causes uh Power to be out and a generator may have to be used very on a temporary basis can we jump back to 15 which also jumps back to five the uses so in all of the discussion and presentation that I've seen it's all been about the food truck Park the vendors being the food truck the Bonita beaches various types of food you get your Mexican food you get your SE food you get your this and then I'm reading about this and it talks about transient Merchants however they won't be able to be Vape sellers but I not that I have anything against retail but that doesn't seem consistent with maybe it does seem consistent with fast food I don't know Islander TR over I gu sleeping it doesn't seem consistent with the vision that is being presented of a food truck Park to allow a hardware store for example which was brought up earlier it takes away from that all I something like more for us to you know okay okay uh let's see where 18 yes uh we know that this has been discussed and during some of the correspondence these vendors are registered vehicles and they have to be able to come and go they aren't containers they aren't those kind of things that are non-compliant with the female regulations and standards that we can I ask a question to the applicant on that number 18 can I ask you a question would you have any problem with changing the words here to that the owners will ensure and require because if somebody's not around they don't come in time somebody leaves it there I'd rather you be responsible for getting those off there if those vendors do not end up complying with the removal request evacuation you can still require them in your leases and requirements but we need those off there and I I I don't have a problem with it I I just want to make sure that there's some sort of notice provision in there to where we know that of course I guess there is an emergency we got all kinds of notific get as long as we get the notice that we have to have to be removed we'll ensure that they're removed okay we can we can talk down the line to get that done you're okay with that okay add up to your conditions yeah yeah I was going to say one other condition I think about is I think about all five of these pulling in and out every day like I know that's not the intent but you know a separate state of emergency so if we could have or the town the town's declaration generally state of emergency require evacuation or does it just give powers to the town to make decisions because I I see those perhaps different it it can um I think that the state of emergency could include uh a required uation evacuation so I would just ask that we make that a little more General I mean typically when Lee County declares the State of Emergency the town does but there might be a situation where the town because of uh several mobile type structures that need to be moved we might declare prior to Lee County so just give us that flexibility good and what about not just moved but returning because often you know what what would the return process be so let's say that um um you know I open the Hat stand and the hat stand now has to move off the island for an emergency evacuation under whose orders do I am I able to come back to my spot maybe that does that does that seem like something that needs to be thought of or not person I personally think in that regard quicker the food trucks can get back to better to service the people that are about the Hat lady yeah the Hat lady I understand your retail Focus John's acknowledge that's important right the people come may have to have a hat when they're outside working so sunglasses and sunscreen yeah still the town yeah okay uh just the remaining are more consistent with the requirements for development order etc etc permitting RightWay permits Etc sign and Landscaping compliant with code the last four um 24 uh we proposed that mobile vendors impacted displaced businesses were operating legally within the town prior to uh the latest events Ian Helen and Milton are now that are now operating as mobile vending businesses legally will be given a what we're calling a first right of refusal or PRI priority for Lo locating uh to uh this mobile vending Park um Mr uh regarding access to and from the property number 25 a sto Boulevard access point will not be allowed during typical peak season traffic times so those times of peak activity is 8 to 11: and 4 to 7 that's not when the trucks will be able to come and go so it'll be early or later or during that uh middle part of the the day potentially okay so they obviously we don't believe they would want to be moving during the breakfast lunch and dinner time for anyway so yeah but practicality being what it is if they're running late are you going to keep them out no no they stay overnight yeah they aren't in by that is a unique and potential circumstance I think that common sense dictat but not practice and a habit right right somebody gets stuck in traffic imagine imagine that well I'm bringing it up the way you prevent that right is you know you you can't you can't enter or leave more more than three times a month or something like that right if you're one of the vendors and I think that'll also be part of could you add on 25 Access to and from the property by the mobile vendors just as in the okay because that is you're right what we're talking about uh let's see 26 a time of local development order uh and this is something that developed uh from our conversations with uh our neighbors at Pelican watch um and knowing and some of the input that we've received uh correspondence wise of and what Publican watch deals with is that unfortunately individuals either getting lost or intentionally seem to go through and then go on to their property go through their property and out um I think there's some things on that we feel is needs to be comprehensively looked at from their perspective as too is managing who can enter onto their property but there are likely or should have been maybe some signage prior to storms that say local traffic only no through traffic etc etc to help manage uh and inform uh the folks traveling along Chapel or Cottage that you know this is not someplace that you need to be maneuvering through so we are committed to working with the town to provide that type of signage that's appropriate to help inform uh the traveling public in their vehicles then outdoor lighting uh the language that we're proposing here is derived directly from your outdoor lighting code uh the note below which can be part of the condition or not the current regulation allow 0.5 foot candles I don't have foot candles that are measured at the property line and 0.2 foot candles 10 feet from the property on to Residential Properties we're proposing to restrict that further so 0.2 foot candles at the property line and zero within any residential property adjacent to us so Judith on on that volunteer additional restriction can that happen with the parking lot lighting that's required by code on for number 27 specifically so it is what they are proposing is more restrictive you if you're talking about enforcement I'm talking about they're offering something here that looks very attractive what I'm saying is they're putting a commercial parking lot up with required signing by or lighting by our code can they comply with this point too I would have to go back and look I don't believe we have lights on all of our outdoor parking lots not on please to address your concern yes there is a requirement for 15 feet and there's also path lighting for uh pedestrians that maybe on the property this would be reviewed by Chad and the environmental um so ultimately they are going to have to provide a design uh that meets those minimum standards okay but you're absolutely right there will be some lighting that will have to be Turtle friendly and ostensibly available most of the evenings lot like d and that they're all and and all I was trying to flush out is this is a generous offer that's want to make sure that can actually be implemented yeah implemented comply with otherwise it's kind of red herring offer just just want to make sure get that on the record yeah so BR and Fry again so generally speaking U lighting has a triangular shape uh distribution they can propose cut offs on the fixture themselves and it brings that light you know to more of a to have a vertical Edge to it they do it a lot at stadiums and places have 100 foot tall poles that would otherwise distribute you know while outside the property so thank you so that's the component of the conditions um thank you for your patience working through that um just trying to move forward uh consistently with the comprehensive plan and LDC uh we feel we're consistent with the uh LDC sections 34 85b and 34216 uh these uses um lost my spot uh to stimulate this development here uh we believe we're consistent with the comprehensive plan and agreement with the staff reports uh determinations staff's determination in their staff report again we are proposing some deviations uh this achieves the objectives of what the plan developments uh to develop on this uh infill property that's is unique uh that the flexibility that helps us to bring back these businesses and we feel they do not negatively impact the public overall public health safety and Welfare and are also consistent with the comp plan so to kind of wrap this up um through this effort uh through the uh adoption of these multiple ordinances and what is getting us here uh we feel that the town can Now set a kind of high bar for any future mobile vending projects that coming on the island uh we feel that this is proposing a sub substantial commitment now and an investment uh is what we've expressed and what we're showing you is it's not a carnival atmosphere on a vacant sand lot uh that can evolve it seems in some areas this is a very well planned managed and envisioned uh by this by this uh owner uh that commitment to the high quality and the significant investment the obvious uh contributions to the economy the property taxes sales tax uh job creation um the intent is uh to be open as soon as possible so we hopefully achieve this approval through this zoning obviously have to get the development plans put together and uh start construction uh but the goal is to be ready to go um sooner rather than later the resiliency component obviously our structures that we're proposing uh would be FEMA compliant uh the vehicles obviously would be able to come and go uh and I think a component uh it was sort of being alluded to before and we're hitting on that is this can be another functional space it's quite a large spot uh with infrastructure for maybe emergency response needs uh Andor mobile vendors to come back to at the next event uh unfortunately I had to maybe I I'm I'm sorry should there be any um that you know we have the ability to get to this open area connect when power's back on or uh when the facilities are ready to go soy you were doing so well that's how we restrict your time and give little batteries bummer just there you oh there we go uh again the first R of refusal to uh help those that are on the island to survive and come back Dan mentioned this kind of incubator effect uh our intent is to take away from the opportunities of the brick and mortar uh we have seen and there are uh examples of food trucks or vendors able to then move into that brick and mortar opportunity uh we have mentioned the Rooftop at Riverside uh the Bonita Springs location that is a Redevelopment area uh I have been a patron at BO at the rooftop of Riverside and there's other uh establishments in that area now it's harder to get into those areas rooftop of Riverside is adding a component of bringing people uh and activity uh back to a community that needs Redevelopment um it is less intense of a development than what was originally approved in terms of looking at these added schedule of uses or added uses as part of the schedule uh supporting the Vision in the heart of the island and this family oriented destination contributing to the centralized parking opportunities eating establishments the fun entertainment uh we feel is part of creating that successful Community uh the addition of the uses uh supports the island as it comes back uh and looking at the public beach access uh Chapel Street uh with the commercial parking lot Comfort station it's that's kind of reciprocal complim ment element uh that you know the beach is where people like me I I don't live unfortunately I don't get the opportunity but I want to come and enjoy this great Beach that Fort Meers beach has and I would like that opportunity to know I could park somewhere safely and access it and have some amenities to go along with that and other folks truly look for coming to Fort Myers Beach again I want to be able to do that so based on uh the testimony uh competent and substantial evidence that we have submitted here presented uh the recommendation of approval with conditions by staff uh we respectfully request that the local planning agency recommend approval with uh conditions as uh finalized uh to the Town Council so again thank you for your patience and appreciate it we answer any more questions and we'll go from there I know the public has their yes they do chance and we okay we'll go forward but hold still for a second okay Jane do you have any questions for for Ken um the only thing I was thinking of is uh this fence area that would go behind this are there certain fences that mean between between the property and area behind yes are there certain fencing that would be more of a sound barrier than you know just your uh white picket fence they're not proposing that fence fence they're proposing no fence devation from them having to put using vegetation instead the fence fence is the fence the building yeah the Pelican would provide the fence or wall adding landcaping we're adding so we feel that through this combination we're satisfying or exceeding that intent of what the Cod doing two layer kind of two layers of vegetation yeah yeah which is better than the fence because it doesn't bounce fence doesn't control s vegetation can help Okay anything else Jane Don no questions thanks Jen just two follow-ups how long do you think it'll take you from shovels on the ground to open forget all the process you go through to get approv we are hoping next season but D may have a big thing to say because it it is visible so we're going to have some issues there okay and Nancy one thing for you on maybe generally with this not for the applicant but when we give an approval um and they're partially done and stop what what rights do we have relative to an unfinished project something very visible like this neighbors are going to be all around I real life example need be there's a new Diner being built they had some family situations yes it never opened it's unkempt it's a beautiful building but nothing is happening there whatsoever so how do we prevent the town from being in that situated with that which can be renewed my concern is more along with that which can be renewed my concern is more along so that the neighbors and the residents have an expectation that we expect in some reasonable uh period of time for these projects we approving and they get through the full approval process to be completed and when they stop halfway or third of the way down they become an isore versus an attribute and I just wonder just general knowledge for us and and the residents that are listening on do we have enforcement powers to withdraw our approval or do something inter interventive around it I think it's the LPA you probably don't have that speaking about the town the town through the um the issuance of the permits and the approvals down the line of the development those should be monitored to make sure that things actually happen and if they expire um then if you have a half constructed building then you don't have a permit for that anymore because the permit's expired then it becomes a code enforcement matter um it's it's Downstream erosion and address those issues so I don't know if we have any of this currently at the town but it's something the town could consider I'm ready absolutely I'm ready know to councel yeah performance bonds are not unusual no it's a very good answer thanks contrary to staff if this is approved temporary to me means that needs to have a sunset Clause this could be in existence in 20 years during which time all of the brick-and mortar restaurants have come back and it's not a Level Playing Field where a brick and mortar restaurant has staff they have overhead they have more property ta taxes than a mobile uh Park so you know I think I brought this up when we met is if we look at Sea grape grape right now you've got a a pancake house that's open for lunch and right around the corner you have a mobile food truck that's open for lunch and they're over had was nowhere near the same right so so to me it's a good temporary use but the way it's proposed it's not temporary and we are not reflecting it as being temporary anymore and I understand that point but you know a these opportunities for a park like this that establishes a significant amount of infrastructure and investment and structures that complement those opport unities we feel that this is an element that can help support and promote the opportunities for them to move to bre and mortar and I guess we may have to just agree to disagree that you know that we're not playing on a same playing field but these projects are uh becoming popular and there are interest and the fort Meers beach has an opportunity to look into but each one of these Parks has a unique location sure with regards to that brick and mortar versus temporary use uh I think what you're seen before you is is a substantial investment they're putting water sewer all the utilities water management they will have um permanent buildings on the site and if you just look at the pure cost of the land they own that property uh a mobile food truck that wants to establish themselves long term on this island would have to buy land we can regulate that as a town just the mere cost of the land will negate what you're you're fearing I don't I don't think that's correct and if you look at the plan that's associated with the second ordinance the first one we dealt with that uh mixed use commercial residential those uh retail spaces that are proposed there will have it's the same land basis whether it's a food truck or the building but the building is going to have a much higher eav than that food truck Park but but I think what you're saying is is you were comparing food truck to a restaurant and a plane field right of course from a build a bigger bigger building footprint will have to pay no on the same site the land basis is negated okay whether it's a a food park or a building I'm saying on that site the building is going to have much more of a tax implication but then there's a staffing implication payroll taxes all the other things that go along with brick and mortar but Jim don't you think that's why they're holding on to their previous use because then it's I think if it without a sunset Clause here I don't see the incentive to move to the plan for the uh buildup so where the market conditions and for some Comm in in other words if there's always a need a desire demand for a spot like this they represent it as a perhaps an incubator so if somebody wants to try and come and try a food concept to see whether or not there's demand if they outgrow this space won't they naturally need to acquire and more permanently represent their their offerings to the public it would seem like market conditions would control that at some point it's an open competition would I'm not sure that five food trucks whether half of them graduate to a a a brick and mortar is enough justification okay so is that our task though just I mean it's our task to decide whether you know uh the econom comcs of a restaurant owner or you see what I'm saying I I don't know Jim made a big uh speech last couple of meetings about how finances and tax implications are yeah I just don't know that that's on that our task based on what's proposed I mean I would tell you I don't think economically this thing hunts right I think the commercial parking lot hunts and I think I think if the food trucks don't work it is a commercial a very expensive commercial parking lot right I mean there's a lot of expensive property so I I think this is a little bit philanthropic in that we're trying to get some food you know somebody's trying to do something A New Concept that get some food back on the island get a you know a seed um maybe I'm wrong I don't know that these folks as I said I think it's a good temporary use yeah but temporary has some end to it this does I me does not have when I was here as a kid there was a place that's no longer there in the Sandy Bottoms parking lot that was a sat on the corner there that was a food truck right and my dad and I would go down there and get forgot about that you know I love their french fries I wish I still had their french fries but if they got in here and they stayed I'd go there for the next 20 years right so I I don't know I guess it's if it's managed and it's um controlled as the way these Proprietors yeah I think it I think it it would be wonderful for the community so okay John anything else Jim John uh no I guess that I would agree that it's to in my mind it appears that this is a commercial parking lot with an extended use which will be I hope successful with people that are visiting the beach and will have access to amenities and to food and if it's not it'll and if it's expanded parking lot and if it's not it'll be an extended parking lot with some existing restrooms and comfort station which we continue to acknowledge parking is an issue here yeah and that's a beach access so um I'm going um can you make you didn't make much uh of the three multif family units and I'm just curious how parking would be used will be affected with that so those will they have dedicated parking or are they going to pay to park to live well again I think that corresponds with the evolution of our schedule of uses so looking at the final ordinance we're again I'm trying to back up here we're taking those schedule of uses that were currently approved which allowed for the M the multif family or the three dwelling units and then adding food truck parking lot that that component our Master concept plan for the food truck and commercial parking lot there's no dwelling unit component to that plan if the property owner sees the need to bring dwelling units back they have the opportunity to do that under the schedule of uses but we will come back to you our staff LPA to recognize we're adding that schedule or that use to our Master concept plan redesigning our parking got it it just stuck in my head okay all right thank you anything else all right thanks thanks Ken very much thank you Patrick and Bren Judith anything else or would you like to go to public comment first however you would like to do it whatever you yeah go ahead okay so I'm GNA go over the findings and findings and conclusion for um the expanded CPD boundary ordinance which just to remind everybody is Item B on your agenda um do need to go through them one by one okay so um bear with me um uh Land Development code section 34- 85b and c and 34- 2162 sets forth the um required consideration and findings um for the approval of the rezoning so here we're we're adding on to the um previously approved CPD um zoning so hold on does somebody have that up on the page uh 220 220 yeah thank you um okay so in um reaching the decision Town Council um will be advised by you all um to consider the following uh we applicable so whether exists an error or ambiguity which must be corrected we do not feel that that is the case here um whether there exists change or changing conditions would make approval of the request appropriate um this site was vacant prior to Hurricane Ian it remains vacant um the Redevelopment of the site makes the request um uh appropriate in this case um as the uh the property owner has added these adjacent properties um that uh impacted um their ability to develop here um the impact of the proposed change on the attent of the chapter no impact on the inent of the chapter will occur um although as I've I've noted in here you could consider um through the um conditions adding additional U regulations over the site when we get to the second part um testimony of the applicant recommendations of Staff um testimony of the public which we have yet to hear um whether the request is consistent with the goals objectives policies and intent um with the densities intensities and general res set forth in the comprehensive plan um in this case just um adding these two properties does not provide um uh much change from the previous CPD um and we don't feel it impacts um has that it is consistent with the goals and the intents of the comprehensive plan um and then I've listed out some of those uh policies that we've considered specifically for this property uh whether the request meets or exceeds all performance locational standards um the proposed development will be required to meet all of the um typical standards for development whether Urban Services um are available they are available um and they you've heard the applicant willingness to upgrade the site um to bring them to the the uses proposed uses um whether the request will protect conserve or preserve environmentally critical areas um uh we do not believe there to be an impact um to the environmentally critical areas uh whether the request will be compatible with existing or planned uses and not cause uh damage Hazard nuisance or other detriment to persons of property um uh then I talk about what we're calling option b which is really going to be the only option moving forward um that it is compatible um whether the location of the request places an undue burden upon existing Transportation um uh what they're proposing now is um some somewh less burdensome on Transportation than what the approval that stands um under resolution um 0728 okay so then moving on um before granting any resoning the Town Council shall find that the request um zoning district complies with the Fort Meyers Beach Comprehensive plan which um we believe that it does um this chapter again we believe that it does except for the deviations that they have called out that are going to impact the second um ordinance you're going to see um the proposed request complies with Town ordinances and codes um which we believe that it does um development res zonings 34-26 chapter for additional findings so the proposed use or mix of uses is appropriate at the subject location again this ordinance is just for the um the larger boundary um and we believe that it it it um is appropriate um sufficient safeguards to the public interest are provided by the recommended special conditions we've talked about the special conditions they're going to sit with that second ordinance um all recommended special conditions are reasonably related to the impacts of the Public's interest uh we believe that they are although there are not specifical condition specific conditions sitting with this ordinance okay um the proposed use meets all specific requirements of the comprehensive plan um we've listed out some of those specific policies that impact this site specifically and we do not believe that there are um uh that the we believe that the requirements um of the comprehensive plan are being met by the expanded boundary trying not to confuse the two issues here okay so staff recommendation um is that this uh expanded boundaries ordinance is compliant with the um comprehensive plan and the de development code and we recommend approval for that so that's again the expanded boundary ordinance okay so if I may move on to the second ordinance which is slightly more complicated um but again we're going to go through um the same requirements that are in the Land Development code and the comprehensive plan okay okay go through them all one by one again okay go through oh okay okay so Land Development code section 34- 85 B and C and section 34- 2162 sets out the um considerations and findings that staff is charged with representing to you all about whether the the um proposal is compliant with okay so 34- 85 B the following considerations whether there exists an error or ambiguity which must be corrected we do not believe there to be any ambiguities whether there exists changed or changing conditions which make approval of the request appropriate um as I already said the site was vacant before and remains vacant now you've heard from the the applicant some of their um uh considerations in the matter um the Redevelopment of the site makes the request appropriate um at this time food truck parks are growing in popularity and the use is not directly addressed in the Land Development code which makes the CPD process appropriate to resolve any potential conflicts in this use so um after I go through all this we're going to go through those conditions again um because that is kind of the um in in my opinion the changing condition this was not something that was anticipated by the Land Development code it's kind of A New Concept that people have come up with in in recent years um so uh I believe it's appropriate to address those now um impact of a proposed change on the intent of the chapter so it's not directly impacting the intent of the chapter um but now is the lpa's opportunity um to consider additional regulation to govern um this use in the future um uh all alternately we could create an ordinance directly addressing this for the Land Development code if that is something that the LPA and the Town Council would be interested in moving forward that would be creating new regulation specifically for this use if it is a desired use okay number four uh testimony of the applicant the recommendation of Staff um testimony of the public which we have yet to hear um whether the request is consistent with the goals objectives policies and intent and with the densities intensities and General Uses as set forth in the fort Meers Beach Comprehensive plan um density and intensity is not really a an issue here um very small uh maximum 1500 foot permanent structure that they're proposing um and is compatible with the uh comprehensive plan um the proposed food truck Park uh is intended to program a space that has been vacant for several years um and by its scale is pedestrian oriented which is something that the comprehensive plan specifically calls out especially for the boulevard um future land use area um uh it's pedestrian or oriented for um the surrounding neighbors um and additionally there have been several newly approved development projects nearby which will also potentially benefit from this use um and that's uh I refer back to goal seven of the comprehensive plan um the location is accessible from lran service um and a reasonable distance from the downtown zoning District on bicycle um so the opportunity to use alternate Mobility um uh Transportation um is available for this site the outdoor nature of the proposed development lends itself to integration with the public realm um and we think of the public realm is being the sidewalk the beach access the beach itself um and this um location is um well oriented to make use of those uh public um already publicly available accessed areas um and then I continue to lay out the specific policies that were reviewed um continuing on whether the request meets or exceeds all performance and locational standards um the proposed development will be required to meet all of those um standards um whether Urban Services exist they do exist and the um applicant as you've heard is um going to upgrade the on-site um Utility Services whether the request will protect conserve or preserve environmentally critical areas um the the request um we do not believe will have any impact on the environmentally critical areas and the natural resources um and um the actual portion that's being developed I think is outside of the um the DP area um and certainly not in the critical um zoning area whether the request will be compatible with existing or planned uses and not cause damage Hazard nuisance or other detriment to persons or property um the request is compatible with the surrounding um land uses um uh considering the future land use designation of Boulevard having the um pedestrian um focused um uh Street focused use of the food trucks to interact with a stero Boulevard to be visible from the stero Boulevard um I think makes it um compatible um with the intended future land use for the area it provides an additional um programming um for the the boulevard itself um the applicant has uh through their conditions and their Master concept plan um provided additional um uh buffers and self-imposed limitations um to reduce the potential for noise nuisance um on the surrounding uh Residential Properties um moving on whether the location of the request uh places an undue burden upon existing Transportation uh we do not believe that it will do that um uh okay and then 34- 85c um uh it's com compatible and complies with the fort Meers Beach Comprehensive plan um we believe that it is compatible um and complies um the zoning chapter again we believe it is um complies with the of the deviations which you heard the the applicant present um any other applicable Town ordinances or codes um uh we believe it's in compliance um again except for the deviations um and those will be further enforced during the development order process um okay 34- 216 B2 um the proposed use or mix of uses is appropriate at the subject location um this one is is um just slightly trickier because Food Truck Park is not a defined use in the Land Development code or in the comprehensive plan but if you break it down further into restaurant um bar um uh you know General seating parking those are all uses that are defined so we kind of have to think about it um that way in terms of the the the um the comprehensive plan um because that's what we have um available so we believe the mix of uses is appropriate in this location um as it is in the boulevard future Grand use area um with the expound expanded boundary if that's approved um the addition to the schedule of uses and the U Master concept plan um uh with the food truck Park concept creates um a a a compatible um use as a whole for the site sufficient safeguards to the public interest are provided by the recommendations by the recommended special conditions to the concept plan by by other applicable regulations so in this case the sufficient safeguards are going to come through those um conditions that we've talked about that the applicant talked about um uh and I'm going to get to um so in terms of safeguarding the the general public the conditions is where those are going to um be located uh all recommended special conditions are reasonably related um we believe that the conditions that were um suggesting the applicant is suggesting are related to the impacts on the public interest okay proposed use meets all specific requirements of the comprehensive plan that are relevant to the requested planned development um I'm not going to go through all of those but as you've heard previously we believe it is compatible with the comprehensive plan um and then in terms of the deviation requests um the deviation requests are all um specifically related to the the proposed use and some of the peculiarities of the site itself um uh the applicant went through all the specific um uh deviations um but the findings are based on the following criteria each item enhances the achievement of the objectives of the planned development um which we believe that it does um and helps the site to function um the general intent of the chapter is to protect the public health safety and Welfare will be preserved and promoted um we believe that the deviations do preserve Public Health each deviation operates to the benefit or at least not to the detriment of public interest um we do not believe the deviations to be a to the public interest each deviation is consistent with the fort Meers Beach Comprehensive plan and we have determined that it is consistent okay everybody still with me okay moving on to the recommendations for this ordinance so this is this is again the ordinance to change the uses and to um to incorporate this new uh uh Master concept plan okay staff finds at the CP with deviations meets the criteria set forth as I just read through um if the LPA finds the applicant proposed parking calculations because again um that's kind of a a a new thing it's not particularly laid out in specifically laid out in in the code so I would say if you are in agreement with the parking calculations um uh which has been based on other local regulations if you determine that is appropriate then staff would recommend approval with conditions um the recommended conditions are listed um as you've heard the applicant has some changes that they would like to make to those listed conditions um I have some points that I would like to add to their recommended changes so I'm going to get to that also in in one moment um but the the recommended conditions um are listed and the intent of that is to reduce the potential for a nuisance to the neighboring residential Parcels um staff has also suggested that the LPA review the provided regulations from the municipalities of Fort Meers Cape Coral and Bonita Springs to determine if other conditions um are desirable at this time so I I know that's a lot so I'm going to pause if there's any questions before I move on to the conditions and my um determination on those and just for the record um your comments and your testimony that it is all within your uh staff report that's in the agenda materials yes okay so the conditions um in thinking about the conditions as I said when we started out um typically you'll hear some boilerplate conditions maybe with one or two additional based on the specific project here we have some lengthy um conditions added on because this is something new and one um as you've heard in the criteria we want to make sure that the um the public is not negatively um impacted um as as much as we possibly can um and these conditions all um reflect that um I think staff is very open if you have other conditions that you think make sense that we can add them on um if you want to talk about that now we can also talk about that after you hear public comment because there may be some suggestions from the the public as well um I did want to say if you're looking at that sheet that Ken hand out with the conditions on there right so just first off number one is that option a uh Master concept that was in the initial resolution would no longer be valid so that's number one that goes away and is completely replaced by by the the new ordinance okay and then the the second thing on that list the deviations only applying to B we can just strike through that because that's no longer apply there is not going to be a and b there's just going going to be one um approved plan moving forward Judith would it be helpful for um our staff to put those backup on the overhead for you in your presentation yes I don't know if that's can you do that I don't know what the AG that was tell her what you want up there print I don't know part of well yours are page 11 of 12 okay okay but they they've nicely highlighted it um okay so then there's the um the the the buffers the additional Landscaping they're proposing um again that's going to buffer sound um as well as light um from the neighbors okay can you go to the next slide okay so this number four I think is a little bit tricky and I wanted to call your attention to this one specifically um I had put in a maximum of five I I understand um thec point is that if you're to think about this um because you have to think about this kind of in two parts one is the zoning rules that would apply to anybody any business happening on the site so not these particular Property Owners now we you're creating zoning that lives with the land land so thinking about it like that um the idea would be that you uh a new um owner say they were to sell new owner comes in and they only wanted to have um you know they had a slightly different Vision the minimum of five mobile vendor pads is really only a minimum of five locations you cannot mandate that somebody stay in business right so there they're offering five lo I just wanted that to be clear they're offering five locations for the mobile vendors to go um I had initially put a maximum because that's what's shown on the master concept plan is five um uh I don't disagree that five is a good number because that's what they're they're showing um to set that as a minimum because you want the space programmed if you just have because the permanent structure is going to have bathrooms and a bar because um under state law you can't sell um alcohol alcohol beer from a mobile so they have to to create this permanent building so in the future um you wouldn't I I don't you may not want to have just this Standalone building that has a bar with no vendors and a parking lot correct right so the minimum here to operate I think makes sense this language that they proposed here to go from the minimum to the max the I put maximum to minimum the second sentence is what I would change here uh where it says any additional mobile vendors not shown on the master concept plan then they would have to come back for approval so if they go if they go above five then they has to come back and that's just the clarification um but I think that Mak sense that the they couldn't operate a standalone bar there that it has to go as part of this park with these other spots as I said you can't M mandate somebody to stay in business but they'll at least have to have those five SPS you know set aside for the mobile businesses so I wanted to point that out as well um I am in agreement with the discussion about number seven I mean the town has regulations about camping um I I don't think you can park in sleep in your car overnight I think that that's a regulation public in public areas okay okay um and if you're going to do it on private property there has to be proper per permitting which I don't know if it's in the land um in that particular zoning category but typically I don't think the town allows camping right um but you may want to put that in there anyway um as a as a condition it sounds like they their the applicant has no issue with that um I'm sure they don't want people sleeping in their cars overnight um and that would be the the concern there um and then for number 12 on the the next sheet um uh this may not seem like a big deal but the the crushed um shell in the parking lot number 12 um I had had that as required requiring them to have it uh if you just have the crushed shell or or gravel rock two things can happen over time um the the sh the rock can become so compact compacted and it's no longer perious but also in the intervening time if you get a storm surge or or even just a strong storm that can kind of wash off property and and get into the storm drains so having um kind of and it's um Jason knows more about this than I do but they're they're like honeycomb patterns or other kinds of grid patterns that you put down to keep the the rocks with the shell further in place and um instead of encourag to use I would say you know we're we're requiring it as long as it complies with storm water um regulations and you know is is reviewed prop L um that's my point there um number 16 about the the grease um again not something fun to think about but is is very important um restaurants all have to require to have grease traps um uh we don't want the um these mobile businesses to be dumping their grease into the sewer system that can cause a number of problems um and I would want to work if this is approved work with um our Code Compliance to see about how we can maybe beef up some of that in in in this condition before we go to Town Council to see what they are because I don't want to put something in there that we can't actually um enforce um uh but I I would want to maybe think about beefing that up a little bit just to protect the sewer system couldn't you do something on a master grease trap catches all the inputs and then that's more easily enforced that's kind of like what I was thinking because um what we say is may not as opposed to what is required and maybe saying a re uh grease trap is required consistent with code and then may not be placed in yeah so I'm sure the applicant has has thoughts on that um we did talk about that at one point and I I don't think that they they wanted to do that um it it's I think the what a lot of food truck people do they contract with somebody they they they keep their grease you know in their vehicle and then they pay somebody someplace else to pump it out I don't necessarily have a problem with that I just want to make sure um that that's thought about and that we have a way to en enforce that moving forward um Judith you have two gentlemen standing up behind you I'm G to give you you don't have to you don't have to let him speak I'm fine with that sit down guys you can talk but she's got it I just know that you know that's not the most glamorous part of the project but I do want to make sure that's addressed because I know that the gree can cause Havoc with sewer systems and we want to prevent that and it's also been raised as a concern by the neighbors yeah so okay so but but just to be clear so that's part of my business agre a grease trrap is not a is a smelly thing the neighbors will hate the grease trap more than require ing uh an extraction at 30 days from every vendor or something like that that that would be the better I just want to make sure it's something that as a town we can en enforce you know right um that's that's my concern so maybe it's just every 30 days the applicant has to certify that that's been done or I don't know something like that Don will come up with something okay but anyway so what I'm doing is I'm kind of reserving the right to adjust that one a little bit before Town Council if if you you know recommend uh moving forward um and then I also wanted to point to number 18 which is on the next the next slide so I think this is a great idea and I love the idea of trying to maintain these businesses um that have roots in Fort Meers Beach and giving them this opportunity a number of businesses are going to be losing their locations these mobile businesses and and having a place to go I think is great my conc concern here is only that by putting it here in this document then the town has to enforce it and I don't think it's appropriate for you know Planning and Zoning staff to be saying who gets a right to get into this property and who doesn't you need number 24 corre yeah I'm talking it's 24 24 oh I'm sorry yeah that's okay saying that they have first right of refusal that's an administrative function sorry so 24 was what I meant and yes I'm sorry good to know what they're thinking it's it's a it's a great idea I hope that they do this um but as in the creation of this food truck Park entity um Town staff should really only have to um work with the owner that operator on enforcement issues you know if there is a noise disturbance if there is a trash issue who they choose we don't want to work with these vendors who who may come and go they may be there for six months and then leave we don't want to place a burden an extra burden on the operator every time they get a new vendor we have to approve it oh how long have they been in Fort Meers Beach and he says well I've really been here six months and those people so while I think this is a a great idea and I hope that they do this and we can put it in there I don't have any ability for for staff to enforce that and I don't know that we want to be in the business um so I'm kind of looking at the attorney to whether it's not she thinks it's appropriate um yes because we generally don't regulate how businesses operate um so can I just ask you can we delete number 24 that was going to be one option you have the other option would be instead of having will be given you could say may be given I think deleting it is just get just get rid of 24 okay very nice of them to do know okay anything else Judith that's all I have right now thank you so much okay U let me ask does anybody want to take a break before we have so we're gonna take a quick 10-minute break before we listen to all so 11:51 e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e right now now it's just please be quiet thank you so before we begin public comment if I could ask you all a favor because we've all read your emails and everything else and maybe some of you haven't given emails but if if you're opposed to the project could you tell us something that might help enhance it or something that if it was changed would change your mind if you don't want to do that you don't have to I just was thinking about this last night and I thought how could public comment be more productive like maybe what's bothering me is the you know 24-hour parking for God's sakes that's that would be an easy change so just think about that as you speak if if you would please so Amy we're having public comment now okay we're off of our break if you could call the P first person please up first I have Randall Bri breeth I'm sorry if I butchered that after Randall will be Gary Fields okay so yeah with a name like saraha I understand that uh so Gary will you be ready next time and were you sworn in sir yes I was thank you yeah so I I appreciate your comment Madam chair uh I think that's my Approach right now but I'm going to tell you why we can't do that okay so uh Randy Bryce Seth I'm a pelican watch owner since 2012 I'm currently the PW HOA president and uh uh still getting calls here today on repairs that are trying to go on in the building today so I hope you're up and running soon yes well we're occupied which is a good start so our ask today from Pelican watch and I'm here representing our owner group is that you don't make the vote today here's why you guys the city received the plan on December 11th notices went out on postcards on January 2nd our first receipt was January 7th so we've had two days we found out about this through Beach talk radio and then and a in an email from from the Development Group asking to have a call on the property which we did yesterday morning with them so we basically had one day so to to to Madam chair again to respond to your quest on how to improve the plan we're asking for time to actually do that we this many people are hearing this for the first time so it's pretty hard to come to a meeting uh and and talk about those things when the the developers had a year and months to work on this plan working with City to talk about mitigations and improvements and and things and we've had two days so we we don't even know what we're supposed to be and what we can do uh what we did get uh councel yesterday so we have retained councel because we don't even know most of us don't know how even how to operate within these meetings so what she told us is that we have the right to ask for continuance and and I'm here to do that on behalf of Pelican watch we need we need time whatever the next meeting is um we did ask the developer to join us in that request and they called back last night and told us they would not do that so um and I get why um right right now they have both time and process Advantage um given our short notice period so I I think from a fairness doctrine that is our number one request is not to suggest mitigation we can go over noise and traffic and and all those things we'd love to do that but in a fact-based way today we we can all we're going to do is a spouse feelings and not fact and I'm sure you guys are used to that in in these Chambers so um so that that's our number one period and and primarily because of the notice period for instance we get find out about this we require 14 days notice under under Florida law to have a board meeting to have an informed uh owner group we haven't even had a chance to do that yet we had we could not even join the call with them yesterday with more than two board members because Florida Quorum laws so we couldn't even have our whole board on the call with a developer yesterday so it's it's really we're really struggling to digest the information right now and that's that's as I leave my time today that's what my number one uh ask is of the board is that you consider that position um it it's not that we're against development of the site uh I want to make that clear this is not uh and I think uh one of the owners said it like not in my backyard right on on the call yesterday that's not our point we'd like to make an informed decision have informed feedback I have to call your time could you tell me your last name how do you how do you pronounce it's Bryce Bryce okay thank you very much sir yep uh so thank you thank you very much Gary wherever you are up after Gary is Richard seering ciphering okay good morning good morning thank you members of the committee uh um Rich seing had to leave uh but um I'm here as an impacted neighbor not as an expert witness but I could easily qualify I spent over 40 years nationally and state and locally in community and economic development I ran the state of Minnesota's business and Community Development Department I've structured over a billion dollars worth of community financings I'm not going to get into why this is an inappropriate site there'll be plenty of other people that will attest to that my principal objections that I we tried to make different points so you don't hear the same things a thousand times is we have been consistently deceived by the developers in this proposal we were told this is a temporary plan we found out yesterday is not a temporary plan we were told this is comparable to other sites in residential developments yesterday we went and investigated them they're not developments in in residential communities they're in commercial uh properties personally again I'm not against any kind of develop uh commercial development I spent my career promoting it uh what would be great for that site would be uh an enclosed restaurant when the market conditions Prevail but right now we're asked to Pro relieve the owner's cash flow Problem by taking a significant hit in all of our property values and all of our quality of life there have been a number of other uh deceptions that we that that we've been uh uh try to led to believe but um the best thing I can ask for now is to spare both the developer and us a costly fight uh and kill this project now or at least make a negative recommendation I know your charge is fairly narrow on zoning you know zoning reclassification but if you look at what's propose you could actually spare everybody including the developers a lot of expense uh by by making a negative uh recommendation there have been another of other uh deceptions if you look at all the pictures none of those those beautiful gorgeous pictures of the development show any of the adjacent buildings I welcome the opportunity and extended invitation to come into our property and see what it would be like to have this development 10 ft from your door so none of those pictures pretty pictures show the impact the impact of this on the neighborhood so I again I want to invite you uh uh to come tour the property and and see what it looks like from our perspective um um but again I encourage you not not to kick this down the road um and let the city council do it let's let's let's start to express uh the the real concerns now uh about what's being proposed um I'll leave it at that you're going to get lots of repetitive comments I think about why this is an inappropriate site I don't need to get into that you've probably gotten your email boxes uh filled in um um I don't think um so sir up if you aren't Gary who exactly are you oh Gary Fields um you are Gary Fields yes fields and and if you want to look up my background just look at me on LinkedIn I've had trry I trust you you're so thank you for your comments very much okay uh Susan Bon Figley Richard had to leave he was after oh Richard had to leave oh got it okay sorry about that he is Gary okay good morning Susan good morning um I'm Susan Bon Figley I was sworn in I live at 2434 Cottage Avenue I am the sole house that is in living shape on the street I have full visibility to that property as well as like properties for example moms and when Heavenly biscuit was there the likelihood that only three parking spaces will be needed is Slim as I can attest that people repetitively Park along Chapel Street on this right away I'm lucky if I'm uh you know if I needed to go somewhere with my own car I may have difficulty getting out of my own driveway the streets are very narrow but I want to go on and say that I do appreciate a family oriented business um but this seems to be more of a commercial parking lot with um an addendum to it um I I don't like the idea of mobile trailers I do like the idea of a per structure make it a mall of eies and have the vendors move in there the parking make it for that actual complex not a paid parking lot I already have one on Estero and Mango Street uh I have cars parking across the road from me because the houses are gone I am living amidst a parking lot I don't like that um I don't like the idea of removing Residential Properties in my neighborhood making it a parking lot lot um the future owners who's to say that they have um the good interests of our neighborhood in mind with this change in the commercial property and U making it larger and making a commercial parking lot and allowing um beer and wine who knows what my neighborhood will be like with the next donors um um people will choose to illegally Park it's evidence right now for moms when they go there to eat there's not enough parking there is the payable parking lot right next door people don't park there they're parking on the street um there's going to be increased traffic on my street Cottage Avenue it's a perfect circle Mango Street Cottage chapel and it's already a problem um I don't remember before the hurricane but after the hurricane we have the trash trucks coming for moms twice a week early in the morning I don't know what that will bring but I know it's going to go by my house and I will be woken up to it every week um the hurricane preparation the idea is nice but as we saw with Milton there was a lot of requests for people to move these movable things they didn't I don't want to be a victim of the things that aren't moved my house has been through enough already I've lost all my neighbors homes I don't want to lose mine um the 24 axis again for who if they think that they're going to have people that are so drunk that that they can't drive I'm really not keen on having those people around my house uh smells fril lators other Foods I smell mom's bacon all the time you think it sounds good but not when you're breathing it all day long same thing with cinnamon rolls it sounds good but not when you're breathing it all day long uh I worry about property values the incubator can be a permanent structure it doesn't have to be mobile trailers um a structure that's dedicated with its own dedicated parking not for General Public and uh for family activities and family dining that's appropriate it contains it uh noises smell and trash all there on the property instead of me going around scooping up paper plates paper towels bags everything that comes from all of these vendors I the sole person there gets the luxury of picking up on a regular basis to call your time thank you very much thank you so listen when you all hear that that means your time is up uh that's all I have signed up is anybody else wish to speak only two people no okay David tasac I haven't seen you in a long time how's your family we're doing fine wonderful trying to get through it happy New Year Dave thank you good morning members um I'm David Tac my wife Monica is here my mother Helen's here uh they'd like to make a comment too um I'm utterly opposed to this um I think it's maybe a great idea but the long uh wrong location um put it in front of Margaritaville put it Times Square that's where the commercial stuff is these streets are 30 feet wide but they're only paid at 20 commercial development requires by law to be 50 ft plus you'd have to have sidewalks on both sides for ADA requirements so both Cottage and Chapel wouldn't even comp with this a this request at all because it doesn't conform with uh Florida statute um there's a lot of issues here I got to tell you Anita you probably remember I think on Virginia Street they want the town wanted to put in parking on the lot that they had there and the neighborhood was in an uproar just overpaid parking all hell broke loose yes well can you imagine having this behind you so I would say that number one the other thing too is these food truck parks are typically Lo located in urban districts light industrial areas or designated tourist zones our subdivision was planted in 1919 it was a residential that's not a commercial access that goes through my my two properties I would have hundreds of people coming up and back all day long it's going to devalue my property it's going to create nothing I've had nothing but problems ever since I lived there anyways with people leaving their bikes and shoes and garbage and noise I get them pulling up at 1:00 in the morning sometimes always chasing them out and and even moms you know you guys approve moms but yet she's been out of compliance for over six years now she was supposed to have 13 spaces and and then she had six or eight that were supposed to be over at tops tops closed seven eight years ago so she out of compliance now so we're forced to regulate this we I've called the sheriff probably 300 more times over the years I've been there because of noise and that I mean just it's it's it's unbelievable to me that this thing would be there and for them to say oh this would be the perfect spot it's a residential neighborhood and it's going to turn into Avenue E and that's my fear and I I you know what you brought up today that we don't even have ordinances or anything that that has to do with with these trucks coming over these food trucks I think we need to establish that before we even sit here and use this as the the pedestal or whatever you want to call it as the as what we'll do in the future I think it should be established before we even go there so those are my thoughts man I hope you really seriously consider this because man is going to be a problem thank you David um uh Monica did you want to come up good morning hi Monica Tac 2440 Cottage Avenue um like to you know agree with with my husband on that um but I have a question where are the food truck vendors going to park their Vehicles when they come every day their trailers will be on the lot where are they going to park has that been addressed five food trucks you have at least five vehicles for people coming in probably going to have more than that you're probably going to have a couple of people you can have 10 Vehicles where are they going to park that's not been addressed in this issue um and then also again the side street parking you guys have dressed a little bit on that where are those people they are not going to pay to park in that parking lot to go get food for a food truck every one of you guys have come by here every day lunch and breakfast have you looked at Chapel Street have you seen the cars parked on there I know you have you have to every day before Ian every day I was calling the town um code enforcement saying there's people parked I can't get out of my my street and they were go oh okay and then they come by and half the time they come by they'd be gone half the time they'd still be there and they give the tickets but nothing was ever addressed to to combat that off street parking that Mom's now think Mom is is one food truck take five more Cottage streets is Cottage Street's going to be full of on street parking Chapel's going to be full and so is going down to Mango nobody's going to pay to go to a food truck naive to think that's going to happen so you know and it's going to devalue my properties people are not going to want to build in that area and again it's going to be Avenue E Avenue C and you're going to get the you're going to get trash in there and I've cleaned up many times people have defecated on our property because it's an access and they can get to it I don't this is going to add more people coming in to do it and I just want to give I'm going to this is what Dave was going to but you wanted to limit it I just wanted to give you guys uh what he was going to say to limit the amount of time so that's for I got seven copies so I have seven members so anyways I totally oppose this again if we had a brick and mortar that would be fine but more parking is just going to bring more people and it's just going to devalue all of the residents property and the smell and the rodents nobody mentioned when when Mucky Duck was torn down hundreds of rats came out from under Mucky Duck it's going to cause rats in the area too so thank you thank you Monica is there anyone else who'd like to speak yes sir I didn't sign in that's okay I saw you stand up but you were here to be sworn in so than yes sir my name is Ed French I'm on Cottage Avenue I have two properties on Cottage Avenue it's 2548 and 254 or 2550 uh I've been here that our family's been on Cottage Avenue for uh almost 55 years since uh before hurricane Ian took both homes away also have another property on tropical Shores that uh well you've got a dup we got our handful um don't want to beat a dead horse but I am opposed to uh the food truck Court U it sounds like a great project I love projects myself I think it's a great effort I'm trying to hone uh something new uh but I think it's in the wrong area I get a lot of foot traffic through my property um had a lot of trouble like everybody else has talked about the the trouble of parking and everything else parking on my property taking my furniture underneath the house out to use on the beach and using the garden hose to wash off their beach chairs and they're using the restroom it's a it's a handful and uh a short little funny story about uh 19 mid 70s um my dad had a hard time getting out of town to go on vacation and Mom grabbed him by the hair threw him in the car and we're off to vacation and we went down to the little handy uh a convenience store that's uh by the old Royal scoop I don't know the street name and um there was a little truck there and it was making cheeseburgers and he he just thought that was the best damn idea on the planet he said he was going to sell the family business and buy a food truck and never work a day in life so I appreciate what they're trying to do I just think it's in the wrong area thank you Mr French very much good luck with your properties is there anybody else uh yes oh that's okay come on up we'll swear in on the [Laughter] Fly is there anybody else in the room that might want to speak that hasn't been sworn in okay go ahead raise your right hand go ahead do you solemnly swear and affirm that the testimony that you about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes okay thank you uh we are Tom and Deb Danford we live at 2520 and 2522 Cottage Avenue we are directly behind this uh development um while this honestly we are not opposed to development either we really aren't we are developers ourself we we have bus uh that we try to operate so we try to be uh open-minded uh about something new coming in and something good for the island and for families and all that um however we we do have a lot of concerns obviously uh we have invested a lot of money and significant time trying to rebuild our properties as they were both destroyed through Ian like everybody else and it's been two years I don't know you seen our proper we're the two concrete buildings that are sitting there on the beach uh we know I'm not going to just I'm not going to sit and go over everything that everybody else is say because you guys have gotten letters uh I know I've sent one uh and I don't need to beat a dead horse either but I'm telling you parking is going to be a nightmare as they uh eluded to we have we have to deal with that all the time even as it is people are not to go into their parking lot and pay for parking if they can get away with parking on the street uh it will block us in and even even besides that their primary access point for this property is on Chapel wrong place gosh have you seen where that's at I mean it's right mom's is right there and you've got that's the primary access point we're never going to get out of our driveways I mean we're going to come around here and we're going to be constantly in a congested traffic mess um it you know it's hard enough to get out in a sterile anyway never mind trying to even just get out of your driveway it is going to be a problem no doubt about it um you know the smells I get that uh you know just all those other kind of things uh security is a huge issue for us uh Security in that area I mean we've had people walk up on our deck before trying to get in our property um you know the only reason why we know that is because we had green cameras uh we've had people walk through our property all hours of the night and uh you know drunk walking through we hear them and we get up and we we know someone's out there so we go out there and look uh to Ed I mean i i s SED in our property one day it looked out the window and I saw people coming through under his uh yeah under the building walking directly through it to get down to the beach and I mean there was access to walk around but they don't they walk right through your property and they they head on down to the beach so right now we don't have anything really driving people to come down there this will drive everybody down there and you know the amount of traffic that's going to create in people down I me we're going to give them two three more minutes because there's two people standing there so you can well first of all I'll reiterate and just reinforce everything that others have said as far as what would make the project better uh much better buffer much better buffer um change the access to onto a stero don't come in from the small residential streets um the uh we've got a noi who's going to police the noise who's going to police the security should not be 24hour 7day a week parking uh it should have a time when when people leave um yeah to the point uh of you know what you could do different as you had alluded to you you really do have to establish hours for parking I mean to have people there and say oh it's 247 oh my God are you kidding me what that's going to bring in at night is going to be nuts for for us as residents there uh you and I'm sorry but you are going to have people coming in there partying pulling into that lot staying there all night sitting outside their cars drinking and they're going to be partying down there and you know we also our uh two homes we use as vacation rentals it's not fair for us as business owners as well to have to put our guests through that kind of uh Interruption they're paying to stay there in a quiet in a quiet area and that's what they're looking for and to to come in here and have somebody sitting in a parking lot all night long partying everything because it doesn't sound like it's going to be policed after 10:00 uh who's going to do that who's going to police it who's going to control the population down there uh just even uh for the people coming in during the day I mean is there a capacity issue it doesn't sound like there's you know there will be a capacity issue is who's controlling that um you know it's things like that that we haven't heard yet um from my standpoint uh it it's going to affect our business and our and our home life and everything as well our eny of our home yes well well thank you very much for sharing your thoughts with us I appreciate it is there anybody else who'd like to speak anyone okay I'll close the public comment thank you all for your time here and thank you to everybody who took time to send us your thoughts via email okay um LPA members any additional questions for uh Judith or for the neighborhood company or the applicant anything uh Jean yes um I would I feel that not having designated parking spaces for to accommodate the people going to get food and keeping that open and and turn turning over those parking spaces for the the uh people that have um bus there is is not good for um the people wanting to go to those businesses I realize that it's your business and how you're going to run it but I think that you do need to have designated parking spaces for those restaurants as you would if you were having a restaurant any place else so I would say a minimum of 10 and um I'd like to know how they're going to address employee parking and is there is that true that for a business to um have access off of a a side street that it has to be 50 foot wide and it has to have sidewalks in a commercial area right in a commercial it is not required to have sidewalks there are many communities that do not have sidewalks uh whether it's a good idea or not it's one or the other um regarding the width of the ride of way that's probably fire code requirement um I couldn't speak to that um we have had businesses off of these side streets um but I I don't know if fire has had concerns or if they would state that they could access the site off of a stero so that may not be an issue I I I don't know that we can speak to that necessarily okay um sorry Jane had a question about the employee parking um typically when we're CCA parking when the code gives us the tool to to calculate the parking it's kind of all-encompassing for everybody who's using the facility so it's not divided upon patrons and and staff or employees okay so it's not compl sep and don't go ahead go ahead I was going to propose a motion but just have one followup question if I can then y yes yes absolutely just to be clear it is staff's recommendation though that there is not a curb cut on stero so generally that's what's in I mean that the comprehensive plan does not want those In-N-Outs from Estero the one that we're they're talking about would have those Limited hours because of the stacking on Aero and the the flow of traffic there um right or wrong that's seen as the priority there is that flow of traffic along the stero Boulevard and so keeping um the driveways the actual entrances onto the side streets helps to prevent people stopping on the deciding whether not to just trying to follow up on on Jane's query which is a good one around we're driving by our staff recommendations to the side streets for egress and Ingress right so we're not we can't ask somebody to do something that is not appropriate code or legal so your position's got to be then if you're going to ask them to go off that street they're legally allowed to use that street to go off of otherwise that's not appropriate yes you okay with that yes okay the the only thing the caveat I would put onto that is that it's dependent on what's being developed and that being reviewed by the fire department I'm going talk about this case right okay be reviewed by fire anyway and the the existing regulation for the the site for the approved CPD um has that access from that side street now yeah I understand that this is different than what we're seeing now than what was there but that was you know that was the access that was given time that stands um Patrick Kent do do you all want to address anything that was said well then come up uh and or does anybody have any final questions for the applicants so go ahead Ken thank you uh obviously we certainly appreciate the input we got uh Anita thank you for encouraging opportunities for them to help us understand what could be done to make this project uh more appealing for all and that what we can potentially work with um I think what struck uh me first off and I think Patrick wants to talk about this is the statement of deception and being a professional being certified and having a business uh that focuses on this uh that was uh very uh disappointing to hear um especially uh knowing the level of cor uh correspondence uh from the last several months reaching out to the neighbors through emails uh yes we were unable to have a formal meeting amongst all the ownership or the board because of what was said you know there's dynamics that are required and that's just how that happen happens um the neighbor uh Pelican watch they were in conversation with staff on the initial submitt uh we feel that that's their opportunity to continue that dialogue with staff to understand what those plans were as they have been amended and going through the process so uh we believe that that level of uh uh uh there was no deception in from that point of view of US changing the plan and trying to sneak something uh under uh from that aspect of it um we can appreciate the amount of information or the amount of detail that our renderings are required to or would desire to have uh we can certainly add and work towards doing that of showing where the buildings are we can actually start putting in the uh elevated single single family homes that are being constructed uh in between us and Pelican watch that will potentially better uh accurately represent what is being seen from the adjoining properties um I think from tac I believe is uh the folks that spoke and we appreciated what they uh offered or mentioned is what could we do with the buffering on that we will certainly evaluate how much more of the buffering and enhanced Landscaping that we can put along that side uh of the property uh we were just discussing the Access Point Judith confirm it is confirmed that that access point exists primarily primary access point with the current Master concept plan off of Chapel uh so you know we don't think it's appropriate to uh seek a deviation I think would be an opportunity for that and it's not appropriate to put it on the main arterial of uh estera Boulevard when we know that that's a an element that we don't want to restrict the flow of traffic on um we're willing uh we want to work and evaluate the 24-hour condition and so um I think that's appropriate uh with regards to when we're talking about the parking and the people parking on street illegally or we just need to understand where the town's position is on how do you enforce on street parking is it allowed or not allowed but we understand is there things that we could do to work with the town to perhaps enhance the Chapel Street and Cottage Street with Landscaping within the rideway or components that would promote a better aesthetic for one uh I mean I saw pictures and we no unfortunately the town is dealing with trying to rebuild roadways and infrastructure and it's these roads need help and we're not saying that we're going to rebuild a road um and but is there things that we can do to work with the town to add Landscaping appropriately types of landscaping and vision triangle compliance Etc within those that restrict the you know the the violators that are impacting these neighbors any development that comes on here is going to bring the visitors now we talk about access to the beach is the town not wanting visitors to be able to access the beach that that sounds like what a component is what we're dealing with and that's not I don't think necessarily the role of what we're looking at here we're asking for the opportunity for this family oriented uh opportunity to uh move forward and we want to do the right and have the right conditions and the right elements that make it compatible so has some more information for the record Patrick vaness um I I really want to address this uh comment about deception and and the reason that it's so important to me is I live on this island I know all of you I know many many residents and I am happy on any given day to say we can have different opinions we can agree to disagree obviously we work for development entities we also work for residents and when we help a resident get a reone they love us and sometimes we may disagree on other issues we can agree to disagree but when people are saying that we deceived them that's calling me a liar and and I'm not going to stand for that because we have it documented and staff is full aware that we reached out to the condo association four to five months ago and we reached out to them multiple times trying to get meetings set up we met with you and council members we had discussions about our efforts to coordinate with them so I I really want to I I really want to bring that up because my credibility my Integrity is important and I want you to understand that if I come before you we're following the rules and what we're telling you is what we U believe nobody has any question that none at all none whatsoever the the other thing is the the comments that really resonated with me is people parking within streets or ride of way can something be done so I reached out to Dan was right behind me and I said and and right now we're we're rebuilding the island we have a lot of workers at are going to go to a food truck get some food leave quickly and we're going to work out the details and have that ready for Council there's definitely an opportunity to have a voucher where if they come in just or or some kind of an agreement of I'm coming in to pick up food I am leaving you don't pay parking you're you're in and out and then from a standpoint of of what Ken was saying on the rights of way there's physical things we can do you can plant trees you can plant Hedges obviously we would have to coordinate with the town it is public RightWay but there are ways to prevent some of that legal parking so we're happy to work with the town and find Solutions but but I think there are ways to address that and definitely this idea of people picking up food and leaving um not having people pay for that Patrick let me let me just challenge you on that for a second and what about when the parking lot is full because everybody's at the beach and now those same workers come and they want to run in and get their burger where are they going I mean in my opinion I think the only way that that parking lot doesn't impact the neighborhood with overflow is for it not to be a paid parking lot for it to be a parking lot that Services only those businesses okay let's follow that logic then so we're afraid it's going to get full when it's paid we make it free isn't that even more attractive it's only for the businesses in other words then that parking lot becomes Services your your food trucks that hopefully are successful so so my understanding is is you know there's a bunch of tenants at Santini we all understand that there's a bunch of people that park there and go to beach okay so I have to tell you I really never see that I know people have said that to me but it happens so the facto the way I see it is you're subsidizing public parking is that fair as a business owner and ATT tenant probably not so I think the parking issue we have to look at all facets okay we we we know that hotels are allowed to charge for parking we're perfectly fine with that we had some businesses in the past that had valet you had to pay for your valet we were perfectly fine with that I I understand it's not a a simple issue of do we do we make all parking lots paid do we not make it paid the town charges for all the beach access parking makes Revenue out of it if if it was that's their product the beach is their product so you're parking there because you're going to the beach I know but but you're a public entity and it's a public access and it's a you know you have other communities that provide free paring and oranges but but again I think it's a it's a broader issue and I don't think there's a right or wrong answer oh I'm not saying that but in in this case again I don't think that the idea of free would benefit in any way I think it would probably just bring in even more people okay um do you think before you walk away Patrick do you think that the group would consider 10 10 spaces that would be open for just the In-N-Out parking um I I think they would probably want it a little more restrictive because if you do the In-N-Out parking all the time again if it's if it's not used you're just you know that's Revenue you could be making also so you also have to start enforcing it very differently um you know we we had the beach whale come before us explaining i' provide some parking but I don't really want to enforce it so really what's happening is a bunch of people are parking there and walking going somewhere else so it's it's there's no easy answer I'd have to go back to them and we have to discuss it but we can be prepared to discuss that at Council for sure I I don't know what the answer is I think that would be important for me Jamie did you have something you would to say I I go down to waho Willies and Snug Harbor all the time and pay $5 or $10 to par I mean that that's becoming more common on the beach and uh I we are going to allow each vendor an opportunity to to lease a spot at a discount and put reserve for that vendor so that's going to control it too if they can't get people to sell their food they're they're going to want to purchase SP spots but I want to leave that as an administrative function not have 20 or 10 or anything that that's required that that we can't really manage so if if we we allow them as part of their lease to buy a spot or two and put their signs up it's reserved for them then that's fine if that's what they want to do if not there there is a there's a big turnaround in that lot where they can stack up vehicles in the lot if they're just waiting on picking up food I'm not sure how productive that will be for us but I I I think it will work it's just a matter of if the vendor sees where he's not getting business he's going to want to leas spots and that'll be available to him okay so thank you thank you sir did did you um I had a question for you um one of the speakers said that they had requested a that you continue it jointly so that they could meet with you because they only had a couple of days they haven't seen all of the exhibits I mean my answer to that and I'm not trying to be delays are really a hardship and I think I saw where they had 11 emails to Pelican watch over the last five months trying to set up a meeting and they wanted to do it with a quorum and there were several things that just never happened we offered several dates I don't know the logistics of it we offered several dates and they offered one date to us and obviously we have to fly from or Dan has to fly from Indianapolis I'm here I can but I'd rather Dan speak for the lot because he's going to be the manager and he's going to operate it so uh we did attempt to give them all the information they needed but it just never came about one other quick question uh the parking lot's going to you said going to have an attendant is that correct well there'll be attendant on site it's not somebody just collecting money parking right right right someone watching yeah cuz back to your point you know they're they're going to have to keep spots but I mean they could be much like we heard at Theon Kai you could be that you hold spots and you know depending on the time of day or whatever you may you know you may move with them around or whatever so yeah uh a great concern of the neighborhood is is the 24-hour parking I don't have a problem with changing that I'm I'm not wanting 24-hour parking personally uh I I feel not that I want to be restricted to it that this thing's going to be dusted Dawn anyway because it's families right so that I don't know how long after dusk obviously Sunset they come out maybe it's 10 o'clock right when your restaurants close yeah 10 o'clock is what we proposed uh for the the hours of the operation I I I don't have a problem with having the parking lot the same way but but I that's good y i I don't know how Dan feels about that and maybe I should have him speak a little more to it because honestly I'm the bank I'm sorry I'm finding it it'll all be I guess I would have more questions for for you all of how current parking lots operate or what do what do some of the other companies do or what does the beach parking do um is Beach parking 24 hours I'm not saying I'm for it I would just kind of rather follow in line fall in line than it is yeah create a new thing um yeah I don't think we restrict parking on any of the commercial Lots either or like what is Norms or M the one at mango or I just more concerned what what is the but Dan I think the thing is is that you're in totally different location right you're in a completely different location you're in a neighborhood an existing neighborhood that is building back yeah and so this is a change uh even though you're at a beach access you're at a beach access that doesn't have parking right so um that's why I think that this isn't just another issue with parking okay I'm willing to restrict time then okay I'm okay with that thank you thank you any other questions for the applicant or staff any followup further from you Ken no ma'am thank you very much appreciate it okay so all the questions answers are done any discussion from you guys before somebody wants to make a um a motion okay I'm just gonna say something because I like you all so much I think you're a and and the neighborhood group does an outstanding job that's why Patrick and Ken your reputation is never in question you've you've worked here a long time and we all know you it would be to your detriment for you to try something sneaky cuz then then you'd be just be done um so maybe it was a misunderstanding who knows um but Jamie and Debbie and Dan I can't support this project you're you're taking something that you know I went to the other I went to the downtown uh Park uh with all the you know where they've got the containers or whatnot I went to Bonita Springs fantastic it's a great idea I agree with the residents of that neighborhood it's not a great great idea right there I've been trying to think and I was hoping somebody might suggest what you could do to further buffer to single out that and and the notion of it being like a mall uh if there were walls that contained it maybe that would help even if it was open uh if instead of a fence they were walls I don't know but as it's presented right now whoever makes the motion for whatever it is I can't I can't support it and I want to say that to you face to face so those are my comments there's just too many there too many issues here the person that brought up the idea of or the comment made the comment that uh we don't have anything on the books for a for a concept like this it hasn't been discussed I think that's important and I think it's a great idea I think it's a great idea I love the idea and I you know know when I met with them I said to Ken I said Ken I don't know if you know this but whenever I meet with an applicant or a developer I never tell them what my thoughts are on them I ask questions but I don't say hey I love this or hey I'm going to support it I just don't do it but um I think it's something that needs um that needs discussion and um but presented as it is to me I there's just too many too many issues for me I don't even want to go through too many issues for me I have comment so one of the things we know is that this property is laid undeveloped for since Charlie and uh while there are opposing opinions on whether or not an undeveloped piece of property is preferable to one that's developed that's uh there are rights to devel develop the property and I believe that U most people are pro-development where it's appropriate in the right place and I have to say that I really do appreciate the uh the creativity and the fact that it is addressing needs of this island as far as services in a way that can be removed in the event of another storm and I think that's a very positive thing very positive um I feel like this use is a reach from what was available before as a brick and mortar type of location with the type of parking Etc that would be required of a location like that and I'm I'm very torn about this because I can appreciate the impact on the neighborhood and I'm not sure that it's compatible while I do see the positive side of the services that it would provide uh but in this case at this point I wouldn't be supportive of it anybody else have any comments or anybody want to make a motion let me let me um amplify one thing in Need You said which I think is right down the path you you heard me start at the very beginning with the 22 conditions yes and those formats are put there because we're trying to put a a basket of criteria around a future development um set of standards and codes that we want to have acceptable for my speech and du to through your point that are enforceable I I go through all these 24 25 I'm remember which ones we can reach out to or not when I hear from the neighbors already the ones we have in the books we still are sporadic around enforcing one way or another um we have such a good start here to create something that we can put criteria Baseline foundations around uh code requirement alignments we all know that and we can have it formally adopted so any developer or investor can come in and say I know what you're looking for and I can accommodate that and I also know the locations and the conditions under which it will best operate for our community so that piece to me is I don't feel comfortable setting precedent around the criteria for a development like this that we don't feel um we can we can get all the components in this setting that will apply to all the conditions and opportunities that our town may want to look at you guys have done a great job of trying to think this through and compare to others but comparing to others is valuable but it never ends up being what you want to be because what you want to be is what you want to be and the input and involvement from everybody in that process in that process is what makes it ours so duplicating and and emulating others very helpful from a learning curve but it's not the final decision and I hope we can be involved in the final decision how to build something like this because we really need it those are my comments that's have one comment I think you know again applaud the uh the applicants in the neighborhood company um you could have uh you could have just built a parking lot I think and certainly uh from a cash flow perspective those spaces where that building would not need to be built with no restrooms um with no food trucks and no games and no fun uh would be far more profitable in my view so I applaud that and I think someone think some folks are trying trying to do something here to help the town and so and not only that people who live here who are building a beautiful home I mean honestly I thought oh I'm just going to be very quiet on this because I didn't want to hurt your feelings and I thought no you know when we approved Publix back in the day there was tops the grocery store the first thing I did after we approved that was walk over to them because they thought it was going to put them out of business to tell them what I had done and I just you know I'm going to see you all and um I'm I'm sorry I had to say what I have to say but I just I love the idea but I don't think it's right someone's phone yeah it's this one you forgot to and I turned it off too I guess I'd like to say someone who has raised children on this island and don't cook um but she has a beautiful kitchen does it's great for sitting around but um I would say that you know back in the day we would go from the ball park to the place across from the Lanai that used to be a hamburger everything joint that was all one business way back when um and the whole ballpark would come you know it was fun and it was family and it was you know if you couldn't go you could send your kids with other people it was just wonderful and the kids played and we played and it was fun um I see this more as a service to the be for people who you know don't want to pick up McDonald's or stop for public Subs I I I do think that people will go in and get it and take it to the beach I think people will go there for breakfast in the morning I think people will pick up something as they come home from sunset uh for dinner I I don't see it as you know unless you have families really going there for dinner uh you know uh and so you know because in the summertime it's too hot in the in the season and now it's like cold cold so you know I I never happy Jane and I know but I I do I do feel you know the importance of our services right now you know that's why I was thinking it was going to be temporary but then it did change to permanent I thought it would be great tempor a fiveyear plan where people would try to get into you know brick and mortar because there is a big difference in what that person is going to pay to be in brick and mortar and what what a RV truck or a truck will cost them but a lot of these people that are in these uh mobile units can't afford to go into brick and mortar they were always tenants and the cost of real estate today is so extreme that they can't afford to you know put out cinnamon rolls for $5 and make their rent so there is a niche that could be F filled with services for this island that I think people appreciate I mean I just you know think it's a a value and yet you know I'm so torn it's really hard I I see the purpose I I go to I go to them often because I don't cook unless Anita feeds me I really don't eat Jim you were going to make a motion to start off yeah I was um and that was you know following the concepts of transparency and fairness and and due process I was thinking that if there was a way to satisfy the neighbors and we continued the meeting for till the next and let them all talk and maybe some of the resistance goes away but after hearing the applicants I don't think they that's what they want they and they do have the opportunity to talk between now and Council if it were approved here so I'm not sure that it' be beneficial but I uh I would offer uh a motion to uh allow the neighbors all of them to have the opportunity to uh discuss um and continue it to our next meeting well they they they already said they didn't want to do that right so they we can continue it as a board yeah that is correct I don't want to continue it Jim then let it die for a lack of a second I'm prepared to vote you got other does anybody want to continue this at this point is there a second for Jim's motion okay so it fails for a second is there a motion now which are we going to do the second one first no we're going to do we're going to do the minor they required to um well you know what let's talk about that for a second anybody have anybody have an objection to uh join the property joining the properties uh we didn't ask the applicant that if the if the Food Truck Part fails do you still want to add the properties together to the CPD yes we still want to move forward with expanding the boundary of the PD all right okay thank you very much FR and there was testimony in the record from um Judith regarding the criteria of that ordinance that was B on your current agenda okay so could I have a motion yeah I'm going to make a motion to um to deny the request for 2500 Estero Food Truck Park finding it inconsistent uh uh with the uh goals and objectives of the of the neighborhood it quite honestly is commercial intrusion into that neighborhood I that's my basis for objection I second that so there's a motion in a second is there any further discussion I'm sorry were we not supposed to do the expansion of the boundary first yeah I thought we we should because I'll withdraw my motion okay I'll withdraw my motion Jim will you withdraw your second okay and I'll make a motion to approve the uh addition of the parcels to the 2500 Estero CPD and extend their boundaries so that would be an amendment to the prior uh resolution which was 20 2007- 28 conditions of approval and the conditions of approval as found in the staff report okay second so there's a motion in a second uh any discussion on that motion hearing none my vote is yes Jim yes John yes uh Jim yes Don yes Jane yes okay so that motion carries unanimously now I'll restate my motion for denial of 2500 Estero Food Truck Park uh based on inconsistency with the um the goals and objectives of the comprehensive plan and commercial intrusion in the neighborhood second any discussion on that motion hearing none my voice is yes yes John yes Jane you want me to come back to you yeah Don no Jim no Jane no okay motion carries unanimously for a denial I'm sorry a it's a TI for the motion failed wait what do you mean it's a tie we voted against it yes oh 3 no three yes why why I didn't hear it that way okay so so the motion fails turn motion would somebody like to make a motion I'll move to approve with conditions as stated by staff and amended during this meeting is there a second for so there's a motion in a second and I'm curious what the what what what approval what what makes you move in this what makes me move in this I think it's a great idea I don't think there's I I don't see I actually think the parking lot um there will assist the neighbors um I don't think if you put walls up that you get anything different you still have vendors with trash you still have grease traps or smell you still have pedestrians and you still have cars so uh this property was already Zone commercial if you put a restaurant there the Mucky Duck was there before you could still have people parking on the street um I think all the same issues occur there okay no matter what and I do think although we didn't ask to be to limit it to five years or whatever I think the likelihood is that it's not forever and so um and so that's that's that's why I I uh I support it okay okay any any changes to any of the conditions um not other than what we're stated here I mean we've stated uh multiple uh changes what about the hours of the parking lot the hours of the parking lot so I said the ones stated here and someone will have to help me because I didn't take notes on all of them but limiting the parking lot to the hours of operation which I think is 7: a.m. to 10 p.m. um there were also some conditions Judith recommended around minimum versus maximum and the pads on that I take all those as official recommendations including my second agreed okay so the conditions of approval would be those as Modified by staff staff correct okay anything else any other discussion okay uh your vote on and Jim yes Jame yes Jim no John no I I'm a no so it's fails fails so now what have so we have stem what happens we need an alternative motion the uh we the alternative motion could be to have a continuance allowing your NE your that's what I'm G to recommend that's what I'd recommend Jim Jim why don't you do that I'll be glad support clation uh Jim I I support what Jim was talking about before now we're in the situation where we see the value and we see the tension so back to I think good forethought Jim about putting this out for an extension to our next meeting allowing any uh adjustments can be made to convince our one party one way or another is productive and appropriate and I make a motion accordingly okay to our next meeting uh can we get a date certain from we can staff uh excuse me February 11th at 9:00 a.m. okay there's a motion in a second is there discussion on on that the other value you have to that is that our seventh person will be will he be here to vote Yes well maybe he will maybe somebody else won't I don't know but anyhow okay so hearing no discussion February 11th 9:00 a.m hearing no further discussion your vote Jim I and Don I Jame I Jim I John I I motion carries unanimously this is continued until until that time and the interesting thing was I came thinking I was not going to support it Mr brassette is back there Randy I just want to okay thank you all very much the next item the next item on our agenda if if anybody's going to leave could you do so quietly because we're going to move on it's already 1 o' is the lon Kai variance we need to read the time uh I'll read it uh folks could you please be quiet we're continuing with our meeting whack your whacker I'm whacking the whacker is that an official term an official LPA term the next item on the agenda is the lon Kai variance a resolution of the town of Fort Meers Beach local planning agency approving approving with conditions or denying folks please take your conversations outside of the chambers they can't hear you because Gentlemen please take your conversations outside of the chambers thank you sorry about that's okay Mr French bye all right uh requesting four variances from the LDC for property located at 1479 the stero Boulevard generally for a two has the Lani Kai strap number 94624 w460 b. 0070 in Fort Meers Beach waving required parking for the 25 unit Hotel requirements for two parking lot configuration three Landscaping requirements and four driveway with reductions for entrances on the sterile Boulevard providing for other clarifications as necessary providing for conflicts of law scrier errors separability and providing for an effective date parte yes thank you do we want to ask uh is there any exp parte uh Communications Jim none Don none Jane none Jim none John none I have none as well okay Jason who is who is present uh representing the applicant or the applicant Mr Durant is present very good and um who will be presenting Jason and Mr Durant okay go ahead let let me ask you a question can we skip the presentation if Mr barant ultimately wants a continuance and try to understand what the continuance is about so let me let me just do this Jason do you understand why Sarah was objecting earlier yes absolutely okay can you explain that to us okay so the the approval of the ability to do the activity is one thing but the problem that staff sees is by granting them the ability to go ahead and and have the special exception for the use that still doesn't satisfy all of the minor requirements because we can't just say we we believe that this existed for unknown Years and we're just going to ignore the things such as uh proper or excuse me U proper Landscaping um you know number of ADA spaces we we can't just say throw up our hands this is what we missed the last one so I I understand where the where the confusion came from but but staff believes and I I believe you will as well that just giving them the ability to have the parking lot doesn't actually get them to a usable parking lot and that's the reason for the five request the five variance requests is to in what they're asking for is to do away with those other issues that go along with making a functioning parking lot not just the ability to have so literally could not use the parking lot legally we said they could without those variances being approved well they would have access to 13 parking spaces but yeah they couldn't functionally utilize it because they don't they aren't capable of meeting any of the other requirements Mr barant do you understand that oh yeah okay John were you going to ask a question I was just going to ask so the last time this came up my question was really around the restriping of the parking lot and the difference between that and the activity that's happening now how does that drive updated requirements um so at that time the ldo itself was for the activity of restriping and reming the parking lot itself that's a physical activity and so at that that point we said they told us this was a a usable parking lot it was you know it was viewed as a a TW serving a 25 unit uh building or hotel unit and so it was it was reviewed under the opes of that you want to physically change the just the diaper you to what's happening today is the holistic is this a use as a commercial lot that is even allowed so it's the change of use that drives the difference between the physical updating or striping versus so that is staff's understanding okay that's fair so they they had an approved site for the previous use and so we would allow them to continue that yeah but now that there's a change in use I understand okay thank you very much okay Jason go ahead do you want to update anything to us um so in an effort to try and move this to to the meat of the issue um I will ask you are there anything in the is there anything in the presentation that you would like to hear us go over again would you like to go over the requests that they're asking for uh just put that out of the way and then give Mr brand a chance to sort of address any questions that you currently have question J I have I have one question is we know that there is a lodging facility there their first request is to provide no parking for those with 13 units right I believe it's more than that 25 yeah so they I mean logically to me if there's unless it's some sort of restriction that you can stay there but you can't have a car I mean how do we get around a request that says we have a known building and we're not going to provide any parking for it so my personal opinion and how I would like to see this go is to holistically look at all of everything look at their uh parking the parking lot next to Norms um look at their main building site at 1400 and then look at the parking and the use on 1479 and ultimately I would like to see see us get to the point in agreement with Lonnie Kai to say we know X number of parking spaces exist we know that the uses that you have on this site both as a hotel use and as a place where there are third party businesses in there require x amount of parking spaces whatever is left over then would ostensibly be available for commercial use and then at that point that would give them the option to say well we want some of it in this location some in this location but at least give them a number so that they can tell us but they've been unwilling to do that um I I think at this point it would just be better if we if we had a chance to sort of follow that to the end and give them the chance to look at it holistically I don't want to say that they haven't been responsive I just want to say that this is uh this has been a very truncated process because remember they came to us through an noov process and they're ostensibly collecting fines every day so we want to move this for them as quickly as possible got it Jim so isn't the issue then the way you're recommending we look at it is whether or not there are dedicated spaces to these versus ample spaces for all correct okay got it now if I if I may this may be an opportunity for us to take a look at just the use but condition it with a with the approval of this holistic plan where we separate out all of the issues at hand and and come up with an actual number at the end of it and say they have access to commercially used 40 parking space I'm just piing would that suggestion be um a temporary approval to a date certain with the condition that they would look at it holistically and therefore they could go ahead and and park anybody they wanted and and treat it as a commercial lot with a date that you would have that they either have to come up with a holistic part or I I don't know that I want to just go ahead and say go do this and then come and make a a pinky promise to me to come back and and get all this stuff done I would want to predicate the approval of allowing them to do the commercial parking on there legally based on them giving us that plan and us agreeing on the number of parking spaces that would be available within a a set date I think a set date whether that be you know 30 90 30 60 days I just don't want to put them in a position where they would be collecting fees through that entire time there's no incentive then right right so we would we would go to um we would go to Code Compliance let them know that they're current ly working with us towards a an equitable decision have you suggested that approach to the applicant I just briefly um today suggested that to Mr bran I don't know that he has given me the thumbs up that we are going to do that but you can ask him and see if that he believes that's good yeah so we're there being assess fines today as they said uh I I would want to defer to Code Compliance I don't know exactly if they're being they're in violation as they said that's why it was brought to me is because they were brought up under an noov violation okay thank you Jason Mr Brant happy New Year everyone the same year for the record Robert barand attorney 51 Estero no there are no fines the history of this is that the Lanai has been operating probably 35 years or more there prior to the towns incorporation and let's deal with the the code the Land Development code 34211 defines two types of purpose parking lots number one is a single purpose lot which is defined as I have a restaurant I have a hotel you can park here number two is defined as shared parking lots so the term commercial isn't really appropriate and we're not asking it to be turned into a commercial parking lot and I apologize because my petition was probably not that well written but what we're asking for is to be turned into a shared parking lot shared parking lots are open to the public generally for a fee regardless of the destination of the per person parking there shared parking lots may be operated as a private business or by a governmental entity and may include a surface parking lot or a parking garage my initial petition to you was to have it turned into a shared parking lot dedicated obviously as Kenny was here last time our primary goal is to lease to or rent to people that are or give the spaces to the people that are staying at the hotel no way do we want to eliminate a parking space for a guest that would be ludicrous and not acceptable it's the same thing the applicant before me was asking for he was asking to create a shared parking lot a parking lot that could use by be used by his patrons as well as for to pay guests to stay there the difference between him and the lon Kai is he's opening up a new entity the Lani Kai has been there and been doing this for 35 years that's why I'm asking for the relief I'm asking for because they've been there and I hate to use the word grandfathered in but it's a term everybody's familiar with because they've been there for 35 years and because they've been using this as a shared parking lot for 35 years I'm asking that they not have to come into compliance with the rest of the code now I thought that we that I had made that clear last time and there's another section of the code that I want to refer you to which is section 34209 give me a second I apologize other use of parking lots parking space spaces that are not in daily use and are located in parking lots having 10 or more parking spaces and meeting the other requirements of the division may be rented to the general public during Peak periods so a we know we have more than 10 parking spots B according to staff there's 13 extra spots I disagree with that Lanai has 25 unit Motel on that space the units are less than 450 Square ft which means the Lanai has to have 1.2 parking spaces per unit that's 30 parking spaces so the lon Kai has 48 parking spaces according to our account this morning which means they have 18 Extra Spaces what I thought you approved last time was a special exception to use those 18 spaces as general parking pursuant to the Land Development code now the land code doesn't say I have to come here and get a special exception we did that because the lon Kai got cited for using it as a shared parking lot something they'd been doing for 35 years unbeknownst to them according to code enforcement that was a violation I came down here with the representatives zani Kai and met with code enforcement and Frank we said what do we do to cure this Frank said limit it to Lan Kai patrons only so we did that we said okay we'll limit it to Lan Kai patrons only the code enforcement violation went away so well what if we want to rent the Extra Spaces out Frank said well you should apply for a special exception so that's what we did $7,200 later we we had 30 first it was 36 for the special exception staff came back and said whoa you got to have these variances if you want to special exception and oh by the way that's another $3,600 so that's how we got here now again I don't know that we're required to get a special exception under 34-29 again I believe that because the Lan Kai has been doing this for 35 years they shouldn't have to meet all these other requirements about landscaping and re restriping the parking lot so I'm going to I'm going to ask asked that and that's what I thought we were okay with I thought you all approved us using the extra spaces for public parking pursuant to 34-2 one9 201 one9 it was the most confusing case ever I'm sorry it was very confusing from that I just said or last no no last time it was very confusing well why are you here we ended up with that's exactly right yeah so that's why I came in here to say forget about converting it to a shared parking lot just leave us alone let us do the the 13 Extra Spaces or the I count 18 and we Jason and I get together on that and we're not in opposed to getting together with the town and doing this is a complete project you know the only problem I have is Delan Kai has been doing this for since the 70s and now all of a sudden we're counting parking spaces and I'm sitting here wondering how many spaces margar ville's got and how many rooms and and I'm like getting a headache thinking about it so I just they just want to do business and cooperate and like I said they have a parking attendant there all day long who regulates gets a call in the morning we have 10 guests coming in 20 cars 10 cars whatever it is that guy reserves those spaces at the EMP if the spaces are empty at the end of the day then then they rent them they've been doing that like I said and nobody knew it was improper once we were told it was improper we cease and assist the code violation went away and I followed Frankie's advice to come and get a special exception so I guess I just if you want to just deny the variances and give us the special exception under 34-20 one9 which I don't believe we need a special exception but while we're here and while we've paid the extra money we we might get the special exception that way nobody can mess with us in the future and and and I give you my word that we'll we'll sit down now obviously once this set once this parking lot is settled then we got the other two parking lots and we can discuss that uh with Jason and and figure out where we're going I I'm I just told this morning that they're denying an occupancy permit to one of our potential tenants because the parking calculation hasn't been done uh you know we went through this a couple we went through this about 10 years ago I know how you miss the storian corporation just okay so we went through this about 10 years ago when Terry Stewart was a city manager here maybe 15 years ago I have a question and I really hope it's not complicating this but does the fact that this is a unique strap if we Grant the exception would it then carry over with the property and and is there a op please so can we can staff can we clarify because I think we're going down the wrong path okay thank you right um at the last meeting you had the special exception before you and you approved it right and that we went ahead and we moved it on to Town Council and I believe it was continued I had a hoping that the variance request which is before you today would also go to Town Council um so the two could be back together so the the special exception that you granted is for the use the overall use for shared parking but the variances that are being requested is to allow them the Lani Kai to do what um the attorney has proposed well but he just said he's happy with 18 or 13 spaces but the number one item here by eliminating the parking for the existing building would make everything available correct so the the wave that no not I mean maybe in a technical sense but not in a practical sense why would we eliminate Pro parking for our guests well we don't know that that's well but that's what the petition is for so I think Sarah can add a little bit more if if you like yes uh John's question um they don't have to be tied there is the option for joint use of parking lots within 750 ft of each other I believe so that's not going to be a problem um we don't have an exact number of how many spaces would be used as uh shared parking however the shared parking does require a special exception uh per our uh land uses and a table 34-1 that determines what uses are allowed so it is required to have a special exception in order to be allowed to consider these types of things does does the business need those is there you know some other issue the variances are the way to allow them to continue operating without updating their Landscaping so if you were to deny the variances you would be saying no you have to put in all the Landscaping you have to make everything match you have to follow all these rules by granting the variance you're saying okay you're an operational parking lot we accept that you may not meet all the current day codes but will allow you to continue functioning in this way and will allow you use it as a shared use parking lot is that what we did last time that's not what you did last time last time you you decided to continue the variances um but recommend approval why they were here I know when I heard about it I was like oh no oh oh no and I called her I see okay I miss so yeah so the special exception requires the variants unless you expect them to bring this into complete compliance plant all the trees do all the Landscaping islands all that it so and you know we may not if we don't expect them to do that if we just expect them to continue to operate like they did in 1978 gr then we Grant the VAR that's correct and then and then they're they're consider be inom it is now clear to me so well I respectfully disagree under 34201 you because that conversation was just in your favor understand a second go Ahad go ahead Jim well items variance items 2 three and four get you to be able to operate without all of the Improvement but request number one to remove required parking for the 25 unit Hotel okay I don't understand why that's there I don't either so strike it it doesn't make sense to me either okay so you're waving that requested part of the variance okay okay you know again motion that I found Frankie at that meeting was we had a discussion and I said understood we're not waving anything we're not doing landscaping we're not changing the parking lot Frankie said no the only thing we want is we want to be able to come down that back side street and have stop you from saying what Frankie said because this is this is this is so let let me just Judith go ahead sorry to Mr Bow's um point the the reason that variance is there was to allow them to use the entire site for the the paid commercial parking so that those spots which are now but the special exception if these are approved jointly the special exception allows for a um reciprocal parking lot right no well let me mod let me modify the request then I think I think we can agree that there's 25 units there the code require 1.2 parking spaces per unit correct Jason corre and that comes out to 30 spaces so we will amend our request to provide that 30 spaces will be dedicated to the hotel and that the remainder of the spaces I count 48 Jason counted no no no no Judith what were you just gonna say Jud so because right now we're talking about just that Northern not the entire property and there's I think there's a third parcel as well so just on that property just considering the the the lodging units on that property and Jason did the calculations so he can tell you the exact numbers the the variance is to allow them to have essentially zero parking specifically dedicated for that Motel use and that would allow them to use the entire site for but the special exception that we already approved for a Common parking lot doesn't that no so and and again Jason Jason prepared the report so he can can speak on it directly but that was really only for the 13 spots that were not the the calculation that we did for the the motel so the motel should have and again this was to to Mr baran's Point developed I think in' 65 or something like that so there were probably records and rules but we don't have those but he's only interested in the 13 spots well I think there's 18 but whatever it is8 yeah so my my question is since the 7s or 60s when Lan Kai became the Lan Kai has there been any update on what's required for the extra restaurant they put in and for all the restaurants and t-shirt shops and ice cream places and pizza places downstairs and has that all been calculated I think that's something Jason is working on um Jason that's why he wants a comprehensive thing um and and that that's potentially something that can be resolved between now and the the public hearing that both the special exception and variance should be heard at great wonderful good okay so maybe maybe you add that as another condition that that has to be resolved okay um okay I anything else to add buob that kind of worries me it sounds like it's a taking and if it's a taking then the applicants entitled to compensation if you're going to restrict the number of spaces or the number of units that he can lease to and I'm just talking off the top no no no no no he's not we're not saying you can't lease we're saying if you lease there are requirements Kenny was here and he said he would work with the town and Kenny conadis he's the I remember main guy now uh so I don't have any objection and I tried to call Jason once or twice and we just kind of got lost um but I don't have any objection to meeting and going over those calculations but I don't want to be bound by anything at this point because I don't have a clue what those calculations might be like I said I just had somebody count the parking spaces this morning at the motel site so I'd rather not make that a condition just take my word that we'll sit down and discuss it you know Bob whenever you say that or when Kenny said it it just makes me laugh because I'll just take my word I'm going to do it the right way what that what that's not why we're here I mean we this is what got us in the riar roll last time it has to be cut and dry because that's what we're here to decide so uh if you want to pull something or add something or whatever do it but we can't just take your word for it okay well my authority is to wave the part about the you know we want to make sure there's 25 spaces there for the hotel that's that's a given so I don't have any problem with that um so I'll withdraw that part of the variance but we just don't want to have to repave the parking lot we don't want to have to do the Landscaping we don't want to reconfigure it we want to do what we've been doing for the last 35 years that's clear that's that's the difference between this application and the prior application we're not starting something new okay well but we need to know what the calculation is for all of the uses that are currently involved in the Lanai to see if there's actually open spaces for you to so that would be the comprehensive plan that Jason will work on separate from but Authority no offense to anybody but you're a I mean the only reason this came about was the code enforcement ticket we satisfied the code enforcement ticket by saying we're only renting space to people that are going to lonai and that got rid of the code so technically we can continue doing what we're doing as long as the people are going toai remember last wait what's reest I know yeah I me favor I don't know what it is you can do that and and just be able to rent it to the lon Kai and not get a total calculation and have no rental space yeah well that may be different for the the main Hotel itself because there are there's a calculation for the rooms at 1.2 but then there's also a calculation for the other businesses that should be included so it would be different for the Lanai per se but the hotel which we're here on today is strictly Hotel 1.25 or 1.2 time 25 but like what needs to be defined is are any of those spes needed to support the hotel across the street if you're not willing to have a total um parking lot calculation then we aren't interested in moving it Forward because we need to know that those spaces aren't needed for the businesses that are there this is a separate entity I mean it's a separate Hotel it's not when you're using it as shared parking across the street well remember they got the third lot across from the hotel stre there's more than sufficient it is a sh I mean I'll be happy to sit down and and go over the numbers I just can't commit I think this this variance is for this lot with the little 25 parking spot that's I that is it that correct yeah but you don't know that there weren't guarantees for that space to be overflowed and if you have that if you have that doubt vote no yeah but that that that let's let's try and limit our scope here because good God if you amend your request for a variance to provide 25 parking spaces and the balance of the unused spots whether 13 or 18 are available for the public that's what you're asking that's what I'm asking for can and can we just I'm move to approve that so that with the applicants um consent and approval which I think you have you would be amending that first VAR um this is waving required parking for the 25 unit hotel to and I'm going to need help as far as what number so that it would be based off the total number and then waving some of the and this is a technical issue so um honestly you really should hear some testimony from Jason Smalling um but then the other three the um Park parking lot configuration the landscape requirements and the driveway with reduction it sounds as if the LPA is okay with waving that because that would allow what's currently in existence to remain I am okay that's what I'm hearing wait John sorry so I'm I'm not sure if I've oversimplified this but if we're looking at it as strictly the motel lot and we remove the variance number one which is Associated parking for that unit but approve 2 three and four I think we've accomplished what we need with the exception of the unified parking plan which yet to come right which is Yet to Come and I don't think we need to decide upon that right now is that not fair Jason do you agree with that um because he he wants to he wants to rent he wants the ability to rent to non Hotel guests something right some number 13 18 whatever I I'm a bit confused because Mr barant mentioned that they don't want to they don't want to rent to other people they just want these spaces to be available for their people but they say they also want 13 spaces available to rent people uh it's a bit of which is why they got the special exception right so so the point is and my my numbers are 30 um and I'm basing the I'm basing the number of spaces on a 2022 approved ldo um the number of spaces if there's a discrepancy that there's more spaces today we'll we'll deal with that but they are not approved I'm basing this on 30 spaces uh attached 25 Motel units hotel motel units the remainder my calculation is 13 with the with the approval of the variances to not have to provide the the Landscaping would then give them a approval to use 13 of those spaces on that specific lot for and I apologize for using this term commercial purposes shared parking lot yeah for the public purpose for public purpose so they would be available to to so what we need to do is rephrase um the first variance request rather than waving required parking for the 25 unit Hotel uh requirements for I don't know where that came from but um we would be asking to wave how many parking spaces none because they would be providing the full load of 30 parking spaces to accommodate the 25 units Hotel unit Hotel on that side so that entire we need number one than in that case can be eliminated right and they would be asking today for the variances to remove the landscaping and other aspects and then be able to rent the additional overhead the 13 and would that change your recommendation from denial to approve or you would still want you would still want them to come into complaints I I take his I take I take the comment that these are three independent sites three independent straps so I'm okay with dealing for this one issue okay but I think in my personal opinion to avoid any this in the future on any of their other sites and to help help with the uh getting their businesses back into their main site that we are going to have to deal holistically with the rest rest what would be your recommendation for variant to a then I I think at this point if if they don't want to have a 100% reduction of the parking lot which is what I've heard they don't need and don't want then number one is not necessary in my mind and he can still rent out 13 or 18 spaces provided that the variances are approved to wave the umig Landscaping the configuration yes and the reason he can do that is because of the code section that we have corre is that correct so does the applicant with draw a yeah I I'm fine with that again again our goal is to your goal was to leave four hours ago when they want to when they want to open the park and Ls up to the general public so we just count it should read that not for commercial use but we want to be able to rent these Extra Spaces under 20-19 because uh to the general public that's what the code says got it to make a motion any other no because we have to have public input and everything else yeah do you have anything else Bob no and if you want to make a condition to meet with Jason on the whole proper thank you very much I'll offer that out anybody else have any questions for Bob okay go back and sit down uh anything else for Jason or Judith or Sarah no all right I'm GNA open this up to public comment is there any public comment on this case God save you if You' forgot something CU I tell you I have a question um okay no I'm kidding all right thank you Bob uh okay anything else for anyone yeah I want you to and I don't want to ever see you back here sit down all right so um any other questions if not uh is anyone clear enough to make a motion I believe I am okay all right I'd like to make a motion to approve the variance uh variance 202 24233 with the removal of variance number one which removes the required parking associated with the use of the lot of the 24 25 unit hotel but includes variants 2 three and four uh and add a stipulation that the applicant will work with town to develop a holistic parking strategy second excellent excellent so we are not identifying the 30 spaces that have to be that's correct correct I can't support that okay is there any other is there any discussion on the motion uh your vote John yes Don yes Jim yes Jane no Jim yes Anita yes thank you very much but you know what that means you have to go to the council with us because J because I I would practice a little bit for now yeah yes yes conversations outside please next item on the agenda sorry for the delay would would it be possible to take a break yes certainly thank you go right ahead we'll take a 10-minute break these guys be here 146 I do have a three e e e e e e e e e e e e yeah we are okay if every thank you very much let's move on next time to or this time to J read this one for me resolution of the Town Council of the town of Fort Myers Beach Florida approving approving with conditions denying special exception z202 4257 to allow repair of pool pool deck fencing Grill area uh foot R station and the beach access stairs in the easz zoning District SE of the 1978 TCL line or TCL for the uh property located at 2654 a stero Boulevard providing for scrier airs and sever the effective any ex parte uh Jim none how about you Don none James none Jim none John none Anita none okay Sarah good morning uh afternoon what afternoon Sarah propes with Community Development um Estero Beach Club East condominium has applied for a special exception to allow the replacement or repair of accessory structures that constructed in the environmentally critical zoning District on the common element portion of the the condominium prior to Hurricane Ian these structures include a pool pool deck fences Grill area foot Rin station and beach access steps into the environmentally uh critical zoning District they are proposing this like for like the applicant is requesting the special exception through the adopted ordinance uh 34 652e that allows reconstruction or renewal of primary structures and major accessory structures partially or fully within the EC district with approval of a special exception the DC zoning district is the land seword of the 1978 Coastal Construction Control Line This condominium was constructed in 1973 prior to the creation of the 1978 cccl the applicants are not proposing any additional development in the EC beyond what was in existence prior to Hurricane Ian the plan does show a path onto the beach however only stairs onto the beach from the pool deck are proposed staff is available to answer any questions and the applicant is also here if they're still here thank you Sarah any questions for Sarah on this no thank you very much okay let's hear from the applicants thank you all for your patience today of course my name is Janette Dvorak um I'm an owner and a full-time resident at zero Beach Club East and I'm reading this message today from Erica Wessel who could not be here today but she led the effort with the city on the special exception exception process on behalf of the stero Beach Club East owners in our pool committee she would like to to thank the zoning committee the LPA the dedicated volunteers at the city and all those helping restore This Island community we love so much following hurricane Ian our pool surrounding deck area needed repairs through the special exception permitting processes we have provided all required information including site plans notating like for like repairs quality pools for last owned by John bersh bersh I did all right on that um will complete restoration and return the pool and the deck to the same as it was one day before hurricane Ian part of our pool exists seword of the 1978 and 91 cccl and all of our commitment includes exact restoration to ensure compliance we thank you for your consideration as we work to repair our part of the beach and bring back vitality and safety to our pool area thank you very much sir did you want to say anything um I was asked question and I was sworn in I was only asked to to come if you had questions of me but I'd be happy to if you have questions of me I'm the the the contractor you're the contractor all right well go ahead and sit back down we do you can come up thank you thank you um okay any questions for the applicant no all right we'll open the public hearing does anybody have any commentary seeing none we'll close the public hearing uh any discussion or does somebody want to make a motion I'll make a motion to approve special exception 202 40257 2645 EST sto Boulevard has presented with conditions applied to by staff Shen thank you Jims any uh discussion on the motion uh here under my discussion let me just say I apologize we should have moved you ahead of all of this yeah wait I okay we learned a lot today oh I'm sure you did for LPA you learn a lot you didn't want to know all right well thank you for your patience all right there's a motion in a second any further discussion here none your vote Jim I Jim yes John hi Jane hi Don I I motion carries unanimously congratulations thank you very much now you don't have to go to the LPA right oh no they have to they have toces okay Cara come on up the ne last case is V 202 4267 this is 63 delmare Avenue a resolution of the fort Meers Beach local planning agency approving with conditions variance 202 40267 requesting three variances from the Land Development Code table 34-3 for the property located at 63 Delmar Avenue generally referred to as strap number 1946242 1000.10 in Fort Meers Beach to vary from acquired side street setback and side setbacks to build a new single family structure in the RM zoning district and providing for other clarifications as necessary providing for conflicts of law scrier errors severability and providing for an effective date uh any ex parte Communications Jim none Don none Jane none Jim none Jim uh none but I currently live on delmare so I'm very familiar with the property excellent I don't have any either okay um Jason good afternoon Jason SMY senior planner with the planning and zoning department uh today before you is a request for three variances as was mentioned before uh one of the variances being requested is for uh the front setback of 4et 10 in to provide a front setback of 20 Fe 2 in a 6 in uh variance request for the West Side to provide a six foot setback as opposed to a 6 and 1/2 foot setback and lastly a uh variance on the east side for 2 and 1/2 ft to provide a setback to 4 feet to their set of stairs uh so staff staff has reviewed this um we we understand the dimensions of the lot we understand that is a somewhat difficult lot to try and put a a modern home on um that is the reason that we have recommended approval with conditions uh if there are any questions that you have right now of us I would like to give the applicants representative a chance to go through their plan but staff is here for any questions or concerns you may have Jane have you heard from anyone in the surrounding neighborhood that have have objections to this um so I wasn't initially on that project I saw Eli was I've not had anybody say I I have not personally seen it okay thank you very much questions for Jason right now done thank you thank you Jason Cara happy New Year yes happy New Year Cara Stewart for the record representing the owner of 63 delmare um in reference to that question I touched Bas with Eli yesterday and as of yesterday we had not heard anything from anyone out in the public so I think we're the lot is a unique lot in and of itself as we only have a 41 foot buildable from side to side we we right we shifted the building um and located it in a position that we thought was best for all parties concerned the neighbor um the existing home that's adjacent to us they also had gotten a variance for their front yard of 20 ft our encroach M on the front I think is about n it's only like 9t long for that encroachment the rest of the structure meets it in the front um the side one side is six and the other one is our house our main living area is actually 8 foot from the property line however for access the stairwell will be encroaching 2 and A2 ft if you have any questions or any comments I'm here to address any questions for Miss Stewart I have one question which is mostly out of Interest having been there I see that the pre the three story existing house that's there uh it was provided a variance to get actually pretty close to that lot line I think is so my question is it appears that you've got the house really well balanced on the lot as best as it can be but um did you not did you consider shifting it further away from that existing structure the the the structure you're speaking of is the one that received a variance for the front of the property and also had received a variance because they are on the road as well I I think that's Delmore that way as well so they had received a variance that way as well push them over um the code at the time I believe also was for a 5 foot sidey setback we are now we are now in a six and 1/2 foot side sidey yard setback we chose to keep it closer in that direction because when we looked at that home that home is elevated as you know and further towards the 78 line which is where we will be and we felt that it would not be as obstructive to them as perhaps the condo so we kept the condo at the 6 in to because now the house is going to be elevated as well so we just thought that might have been might have been a better approach okay appreciate it thank you you car any other questions for Miss Stewart okay thank you very much just morning or good afternoon good afternoon chair and members I'm derling with Marvin holes I'm the Builder for the owners on this project uh the Griffin family who's owned this home for many many years just reconstructing of course a home after Hurricane Ian destroyed it and just to reiterate what car Cara said we wanted to balance the home between the condo project on the west side and then the existing home on the East so we felt it was best to just offset it slightly to the one side and then ask for the variance of only four feet to the stairs on the east side that house in addition to the variances that were granted for that house on the east side of this property that setback to that house is only 4 feet and 4 in very short yeah so it's very very tight in there uh and again it's the uniqueness of the lot that it's not um at least a 50 foot wide lot which is what I'm building on with some of the other ones up on the North End so we'd appreciate um any consideration and the granting of the variants thank you thank thank you sir very much okay um I don't I'll open the public comment there is nobody here so we'll close the public comment any any questions for staff or the applicant and if not may I have a motion to approve please unless you don't want to I'll make a motion to approve variance 202 4267 63 delmare um subject to the uh staff recommendation as conditions thank you J and the second by John any discussion on the motion uh hearing none your motion Jim yes John yes I'm a yes Jane yes yes John Jim that's a complete answer you're finished thank you very much sorry for the delay okay administrative agenda anything have oh no no that's next all right LPA members items and reports Jim just two quick ones to attorney um so when we have situation like we just had we get a unanimous that goes through the waiting period you know I'm sorry which when we get a unanimous approval through the variance goes through the waiting period yes how do we know how that turned out do you let us know that there were no objections and Air Force adopted I just I put notes in the end some no no no no it's a very good question and it's good for everyone to to be aware of so basically it's uh Amy as the town clerk she's counting the days um that that 10day period to expire and then we will have a resolution that Anita signs and then I counter sign and the clerk signs and then that's provided to the property owner so they actually have a tangible document um for their records and their files and final I just signed the goods I just signed the goods did you that's what I'm asking yes I just signed it the other day yeah okay just interesting to know how much of that goes through I'm personally interested because I keep my notes and I don't know at your subsequent um LPA hearings meetings do you want to have under administrative matter love to see how that goes it gives me a sense for the reaction of the public that's not here just in the packet so maybe what we could do to make it easy is just that when we sign them that we attach to the next agenda great then we can even congratulate the applicants when we see them on the street one last thing then um and I don't really know how to best describe this but we spend a lot of time in these meetings making sure we understand the context that staff has recommended and negotiated to a lot of the applicants I watch the mmps with the Town Council I see how much momentum they get on complex subject subjects by having in a non-voting but an instructive environment they have a conversation about what's up to the point where we have to do something I'm just wondering if we could consider some sort of a meeting where we get updated by staff on what's coming before us and we have a chance to have a conversation on those more technical issues and therefore are better prepared to ask more appropriate questions when we hear public comment Etc as well as for me education and up the learning curve on it from what they're trying to convince us we need to pay attention to I don't know how something like that would work or exist but it would just seem a lot of time in the live sessions to me if we didn't be redundant by trying to learn at the same time we're trying to act so you have a vehicle already where that can be accomplished okay um and that vehicle is your agenda right now as we're in administrative uh conversations so I'm what I'm hearing you say is um on your agenda today where there's uh comments by staff you would want to hear a preview of what's coming up the that's a little bit different and I'll tell you why we're hungry we're tired we're exhausted we're frustrated with all the things that happened I was thinking more something fresh and clean that was specific only to that where there was no other activity or actions where and maybe it's voluntary so it would be a workshop exactly form of a workshop some of these require something like that in my mind to help us get to the place the staff wants us to get to yeah um the food truck issue could have been that that that did not have to be that that long and that could have been yeah I agree with you I agree with you I think it's a great maybe maybe maybe there's nothing stirring that is going to be controversial or is going to be difficult chances are slim um and and I I would not be opposed to having a work a workshop and I know we can call you individually but that doesn't seem to be constructive if three of us do that unless it's coordinated and you're prepared in advance so I'm just offering it up as a concept for the so my my request would be that we do that perhaps on a caseby casee basis if there is a specific planning topic that you're concerned with um and I only say that because this week we've had I think four public hearings we've had to do these agendas I can apologize to you for some of the mixup perhaps at the onset of our meeting regarding those uh the fact that you've got some uh revisions today um last week we were putting together four well look Nancy think about this idea I I agree with Jim I think it could be very helpful okay because two I'll just tell you one thing I was going to talk about today and I'm not going to go into detail but would be perfect in that environment is when we started talking about development agreements we were talking about small scale projects that's right and the first one we use is bang the biggest project ever approved on the island so something like that I think needs to be discussed and and we need to talk and policy things Jim brought up earlier in the day bonding requirements and this Jim evidently knows a bunch about it too I don't know anything about it okay that would be great to talk about in a work session and in all due respect to the opportunity we have to trigger that conversation we know the workload you're under and we know our responsibilities and I think we all take it very seriously we got this information on Saturday morning which was great after a long weekend kind of a thing but that is enough time for me to look through and say I want one of those sessions now before we hear from the the applicate so we need something more I think purposeful and advaned picture topics yeah so um if I may um I was going to bring this up when we got to the Community Development items um in in thinking about this um because I heard a lot of frustration from the public and this is a separate topic but it's in the Land Development code about noticing and um they're frustrated because they want to participate in the process and we want them I'm assuming to participate in the process right because that that makes the process better it can make the projects they also think that that card is official and that is not official notice well CT that's a but it would be good to talk about that to talk to talk about that is is an issue there's um the food truck issue my preference would have been to bring you an ordinance first to say do we want food trucks absolutely AB absolutely the problem we're sitting in right now um is and we we can do that individually but we need the we need a a final comp plan and then we need to look at the Land Development code because there's a number of small changes that um in my mind are not necessarily controversial that we can accomplish when we're doing the Land Development code review it doesn't make a whole lot of sense from from our perspective to do these smaller or do these ordinances now without looking at the the kind of big picture so um Sarah's working on that getting the the the comp plan and and and moving that Judith I'm sorry to interrupt but I think that's scope creep on what I'm what I'm asking about we have real life candidates coming to us with real issues that we need to be good at adjudicating how we do it all those other sessions I assume you'll Pro afford many chances to participate I know this isn't ideal but I just want to be better but so that that was that was where I was getting to so I agree with you so let's like with the the food trucks if we're not going to do an ordinance for that right now to have a session to to think is this something that we want because honestly I didn't know until we got here whether I mean I I we got public input once that it went live but I didn't really have an understanding whether this was a desired use um because we may see somebody else proposing this so and I think part of what we heard today was well maybe yes but maybe not here um and working through those kinds of issues ahead so that we can provide that direction to the the applicants um so you all Mill this Mill over this idea and see where we could plug this in because I know there's going to be big things coming and it'd be nice to work out some of these idea early on so um in thinking about like having a work session or something like that my biggest concern concern would be Sunshine regulation and how do we meet the requirements that we would be required to meet if more than one of you is meeting with us because it would be an actual meeting I mean but that's that's a that's a heavy lift just just to be really clear for staff that's going to be a real heavy lift because you're talking about in the couple of days between when the agenda goes out and when the meeting happens I'm that that's the agenda just potential it's after it's filed with you well and I think one of the it goes to the agenda okay but I think one of the biggest issues that we have is that we don't always have all of you know like with pink shell we've been working and working and working to get all those details and trying to figure out where at you don't have them yeah so you know I I think that I understand where you're coming from for me for the time being I appreciate the one-on ones if you reach out to me um and we can certainly try to schedule meetings where we discuss you know if you you know if you've heard something coming up and you want to talk about it or but you know what Sarah that's getting clarification so Jim calls you he gets clarification on something it's going to be very different than if he's sitting in this room and talking to us just us our points of view which will shape hopefully totally right his his view on a topic that's exactly so Nancy is that appropriate so on a council work session it's the same exact thing same EXA yeah it's it's a topic on a policy issue but no quasi judicial applications because it's a work session there's no vote so it's a work session corre it's it's a joint discussion amongst us I think it's a great idea let's I'll talk to you Jim we could all individually talk to you to see how we could formulate it because I think it's a great idea you get a in anal way that's not a heavy lift to staff right is there a way already got it all right here want to create you got it all trying to sounds to me difficult as well to not be okay so can yeah so are we talking obviously it can't be anything that's specific project variants driven because that would violate sunshine it's and be it wouldn't violate But Sunshine if you're in a legitimate me okay then it would be the heavy lift because we'd be asking them to basically have a pet available so we would be looking at it beforehand and I would argue that's even though it doesn't violate sunshine it's not as trans trans arent as what the public expect I'm sorry you I'm I didn't I don't know if I heard you correctly even though I'm sitting right next to you um no quasi judicial matters however correct just policy questions policy topics corre okay correct I I have this problem where I speak and I assume that people understand what I'm talking about I have the same problem and I just don't seem to be able to get my point ACR I just believe there's a big percentage of what we do together that we can do together not live action and doesn't interfere with public or people sitting here having to be put through that while we're learning agree it's a very good issue to raise Don anything only thing is uh like today and I think it was already mentioned but I think we should look at the agendas and if we've got pretty simple variances for setbacks or whatever put them on the front of the agenda so we can give people Jim said something to me about it in the break we absolutely should we should okay J uh Jane nothing Jim um Jim brought up a while ago we have at least Facebook I believe is showing a project in Times Square and J Jim asked earlier and I asked your colleague once is can we tie um the review approval recommendation on a specific project to a land owner's other properties that may be in disrepair or may be under uh code violations fines or anything what's that would you do that in Illinois well let me tell you about selling them if if a property is for sale and you go to do the title search if there is a lean on that property or any other properties that are owned by that person you can't sell that until that one is now this isn't a sale but I understand what you're the same an approval an approval for and um I think probably about yeah 16 18 months ago I asked your colleague after I talked to the mayor about a project and uh she was of the opinion that we could bootstrap it somehow I think I think we need clarification because now it's becoming concrete okay I will bring that back to you um I do know I recall the conversation we had um and I think that we were researching it and we really I I think that we found that it does happen in other communities but we didn't find any specific Authority in our that would allow us to do that statutory or in our own code in our own code now some of the ordinances that are going forward to I have to tell you we have a number of templates that are out there in circulation and one of the goals of uh the town manager um and and staff as well is to try to standardize those so that we all are basically working off the same Himel um but because we have to produce things so quickly sometimes an a older template is used there is a template that says have you paid all your fees which perhaps may be your application fee or maybe some other outstanding utility bill um but there is in the in the past yeah F that was out there so I don't think that we're prohibited but I haven't found the authority that says we can so maybe we need to work on some type of ordinance proposed to Town Council get busy Nancy because it's coming it is coming it's important to for the Integrity of the process for those that do it right so you did have a project that came before you where they were going to demolish and I can't remember the stat right now they said that they would by Thanksgiving I think no they said by the beginning of first quarter first quarter first and do we know um it's underway it is underway it's underway okay I know firstand much thanks to him but that was kind of like a believe me say that one no it's it'll be done it'll be done know the people know's doing it and believe me it'll be done okay good all right anything else Jim no thanks for bringing that up John I'm fine for enough thank you I'm I'm going toh skip mine because it's it's quarter after two so um but just know that's coming I think the development agreement we need to talk about it yes okay um anything else from anybody anything else from you guys because I think I skipped over you that's okay that's the only thing that I wanted to to see and um I apologize should have asked n about this of time but bringing a resolution um not an ordinance change to the Land Development code but a resolution that sets policy that I think would go to you and then to the Town Council about the noticing um and my suggestion is to put the burden of that noticing on the applicant especially when it's when it's a excellent CPD not for a small single family variance um but for a CPD or some kind of um the development agreement asking the you know a week ahead it's a wonderful idea Jud to go forward to bring you a resolution so can I ask when you said the burden is that the financial burden or no now how do we know they do it they they will have to so I mean I've seen this done other places yeah what they do is they provide the the list of the places they're sending it to they do a map there's companies that do this for people you know a map aul responses put the um the the uh poster whatever in the in the ground send a photograph provide all that evidence we send it to the town clerk you can see that it's there somebody might have to go check and see that it's visit I mean and things blow away but you know that they've made the effort to it's a great idea this and they provide this with the the evidence we need to make sure we and in other communities they allow it to go certified mail and then they have to bring in little certified slips showing that they sent them out and then you have the like okay they have 50 slips so we know that that's correct so maybe we look at the noticing code that we currently have in effect for a discussion yes so my suggestion would be to leave the code alone at the moment because the code doesn't say who has to send them out but to do it via resolution to set policy and then when we get to the review of the land elment code then we we add we've got the code make them follow good good good I think you need to provide them with a company that does it and no we don't need to do that they can do that well why do we need to do you do it yourself yeah they could do it themselves or they can you know they can look it up well I mean on the statement on the the board that they got to put on the property I think we need to have certain things that are required to be on there so that that is consist for sure yes so what I can do is next meeting bring you a draft you can look great idea you can you can give the applicant a template and say this is the format that has to be substantially followed in the not but the actual requirement that they do it because it does require the expenditure of money um if our code doesn't say that they have the responsibility I would probably do a code Amendment as well all right you all fig that out section it's a good idea it's a good idea what's coming next month February February 11th 9:00 a.m. back to Tuesday well the food going to be you know that it's going to come back only one food truck now it's only going to be for 30 days 30 days is a parking lot you don't know what's coming no no sorry she one thing that she said um because I'm just thinking that items for next month agenda if you guys could when you publish the agenda could tell us what you've got on your schedule for next month that would be helpful and then when we see this if we've got something to add we could add that's right like an agenda management correct amundo so maybe is it helpful for you all just to know what's in the queue yes yeah and then then at our meeting they can tell you based on the Queue which ones radar and to go one step further it would be nice if somebody would say to you uh we believe that our case is going to take two hours three hours one hour because you know some we need to limit the time it's not fair to everybody else in the room so okay so any idea what's coming so it looks like we may have the church on Connecticut oh okay um so that's a rezoning um so it would well the church is proposed in one location and there's a rezoning to residential on the other parcel okay um that's Beach P yeah um potentially a smaller Hotel potentially another smaller Hotel potentially a large Hotel yes there's a small one at the North End of the island there's a smallish one towards mid uh to south end but those haven't moved so we're not sure um then potentially a very large development that you heard a lot about early on um they got very delayed but we're not sure we're still waiting on that one Okie doie so we don't know all right anything from anybody else motion to journ