##VIDEO ID:HewGwoAqncA## all right good morning everyone we're going to call this meeting to order today is Wednesday December 11th it is 9 a.m. all council members are present Town manager Town attorney town clerk uh please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance pled of aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy justice for all all right our first item for discussion today is the R2 P2 It's the final report presentation we have Ellie Baker Drew Parker John Ford and Margaret flipper or flip environmental excuse me Federal Emergency Management agency our project lead from EPA is with us today by phone to introduce the recovery and resiliency partnership program so I'm pleased to turn it over to Drew Parker from EPA Regent 4 who is calling in from his car at the moment hey Drew maybe Drew we're having trouble can't hear you all right I'm gonna jump in on Drew's behalf I apologize for that Drew is now working in North Carolina uh on Hurricane recovery so he may be in the Hills somewhere um so a little bit about the recovery and resiliency partnership project uh it's a program that provides free technical assistance to communities impacted by a major uh disaster declaration um so this work that we've been doing came after Hurricane Ian uh back in September of 2022 and the program's goal is really to develop a set of community-driven conceptual designs that reflects a participating community's vision for long-term recovery and are poised to leverage federal state and nonprofit funding resources for implementation so really what this work tries to do is get the community um after a hurricane and while you're trying to um you know get moving and recover uh after a hurricane uh EPA is trying to help you to develop projects that you can actually move forward and and take to the next level of applying for uh grant funding or finding other funding and financing options um following a a disaster so in this case uh EPA with funding from FEMA uh worked with three participating communities so we worked at the same time with Fort Meers Beach uh city of santel and the City of Fort Meyers um as you know all three of these communities were severely impacted by Hurricane um and while we didn't work uh you know together with each of the communities we worked individually with each Community um within the the region uh where you all are located and that made it um you know similar issues across the three reg or across the three communities um and then also gives you the opportunity to share information with each of those communities As you move forward um so with that uh you'll also be hearing from members of our team today which you uh can see here on the screen uh our team is comprised of my firm the horley Wht Group which is a planning engineering and science firm specializing and sustainable design and resilience uh do Cola Partners a town planning and Urban Design firm and spikowski planning Associates which is a community planning firm based in Fort Meyers um so together we as a team were contracted by EPA to provide the technical assistance for Hurrican and recovery and resilience uh within the realm of resilient Community design so this included topics such as uh nature-based Solutions green infrastructure and Community connectivity um my colleagues with me today are John Ford who you see here from horley Wht and Margaret Flippin uh from Dober Cole as well as Bill spikowski uh who's there in the room with you as you know um so I also would like to acknowledge the many federal and state partners that support the work under this program um in uh Fort Meers Beach as well as uh other locations so uh a little bit about uh the R2 P2 is the uh what we're calling this resilience recovery and resilience partnership project so that's the R2 P2 um this technical assistance emerged in response to the damage incurred from Hurricane Ian in September 2022 so EPA and and FEMA initiated discussions with the town officials and staff back in uh early 2023 um to identify actually earlier than that um I think just after the the hurricane occurred to identify sort of potential projects where our technical assistance could be of use to the community and this is kind of a big wide open question right how can we be of use and you all are trying to recover from Hurricane so there was a list of initial ideas that was identified and then um we worked with the community and with EPA and FEMA to explore those Initial Ideas uh and we came down and did a visit to Fort Meers Beach back in March of 2023 um or excuse me March of 2024 uh to meet with uh local staff officials and other key stakeholders uh and visit a whole host of the potential project sites to better understand sort of the issues at hand what are the goals what are the things that you all are um struggling with and and could use some assistance with um so following that visit we worked with the town to better understand some of the goals that the town was interested in pursuing and to narrow down the list of projects and focus areas for our work um and that's what you'll be hearing about today uh those Focus areas so these are connectivity throughout the island Newton beach park and The Time Square and old San Carlos uh Boulevard um so you can see these areas on the map these Pages much of what you're going to be seeing in our presentation today is from the final report which I know you have access to or a copy of uh in your package today it's also available online um so these are the areas we looked at Old St Carlos Boulevard Time Square Newton Beach Park um and then just sort of overall islandwide connectivity um we also uh try to articulate the goals in the report as you see here on the screen to guide our work so uh these goals uh to put it succinctly are how can we help to reduce traffic improve connectivity and help build and support Community bonds and just generally make it easier for folks to get to the places they want to get to around the island um our report presents a connectivity map that identifies uh promising Mobility ideas for the town's future and you'll be hearing more about that from John um how can we support the town in maintaining public access to the beach in places like Newton beach park that are so beloved and well used by the town residents uh our report presents design ideas for a postan uh Newton beach park and again you'll hear a little bit more about that from John um and then as as you well know hurricane I uh really devastated the time square area of town and our report explores some alternative futures for the next iteration of Time Square in an effort to assist Fort Meers beach in sort of bouncing back from the damage of hurricane Ian while also adapting to change and reducing risk from future hazards this is the very definition of a more resilient future um so I also just want to take a minute to tell you a little bit about some of the public engagement or Community engagement we did during this project over the past year um we created a variety of opportunities for public engagement and input and in June of this year we made a more extended visit to Fort Meers Beach during which we were uh graciously allowed to set up shop uh right there where you all are in the interim Town Hall um we hosted a public Community input session on June 12th with a full house and then we hosted an Open studio uh for two full days following that um we had a various discussions uh during that uh Open studio with interested stakeholders on each of the projects under consideration and then also were available to the public for um you know whatever questions or inquiries they might have um we also maintained a project website uh noted here on the top left for our work in Fort Meers Beach uh the website is www.coastal LR2 the design Workshop to gather feedback about what people heard and learned at the design workshop and other ideas that folks had so our report contains an attachment with all of the survey uh results for those who are interested in looking into that so I am now going to turn the mic over to my colleague John Ford who's a civil engineer with porley Whitten group to begin to present our work in each of the fce areas okay thank you Ellie and good morning everyone so um the first thing that I'll dive into is islandwide connectivity this was really interesting in all of the communities that we worked in to take connectivity as kind of an overarching um theme of our work to make sure we understood um how folks get around we have specific resiliency sites within the communities but how are they all connected and especially in a place like Fort Meers Beach that does struggle and has struggled for a while with the challenges of vehicular congestion and parking um as challenges both to safety and moving around on the island and economic development um and just the brain damage of sitting in traffic which we know you've been struggling with for a long time so we're not starting from stretch here um in Fort Meers Beach we knew the goals um in reviewing your previous work and previous plans done by the town and also will be heard by clear from the community surveys and from the community when we were there and we experienced firstand we were there um everything that can be done to reduce vehicular trips and Fort Meers Beach within the community and getting back and forth to the islands can be um and should be in the short medium and long term part of the challenge overcoming the challenge to congestion and so that's what you're really focused on um reducing need of a car improving public transit finding ways to get around um by pedestrian bicycle not just to get around but to get around comfortably and safely um and in parking enhancing traffic fing Place making and shade those were our goals um those are your goals and we heard them loud and clear and so if you move ahead one um we're really building on past work including the town's pedestrian bicycle master plan um we know this for decades has been this this head network of hidden paths that the community has been trying to find ways to get back and forth off of Estero and the first thing we did was really refresh the island map to try to be as useful as we could to the community and leaving behind an updated islandwide connectivity plan um so that's in the report can't see that here I'll zoom in on a few things um that really we had three key ideas Focus areas we refreshed the island wide map and kind of zoomed in on a few of the gaps and opportunities that we saw um so existing planned and possible there's a lot in the works what can we focus on um so the first thing uh being Mobility improvements so finding ways to get off of a stero and really um specifically looking at Times Square to Red Coconut as a key link um since the on Estero shared bike lanes and sidewalks continue from Red Coconut South the second was the possibility for a water taxi or Prairie we heard that from um the community and the idea that we could identify in the connectivity plan um logical route for that water taxi or Prairie locations where um there could be stops that align with key places within Fort Meers Beach and then also making sure to connect that if you arrive on the ferry or water taxi that pedestrian bike Network links up with those locations to get back and forth um and again finding ways to get back and forth off of EST stero as much as possible third thing um was looking maybe more longterm at a sterile bouevard improvements we know um in the life of the island is a relatively recent Improvement to add the on street bike lanes and um we looked at those as a great way to you know allocate pavement to Bicycle users but not the most comfortable way to get back and forth especially for those that maybe aren't as super confident riding their bike around town is one thing we definitely heard from the community so we wanted to leave behind a couple Alternatives that if future funding becomes available that the suntrail network as it moves through Fort Meers Beach could be better safer more comfortable for all users um so leaving a few aspirational um ways to move forward with a better at Star Boulevard for ped and last but not least kind of like a a bonus uh idea we had potential for Mobility improvements within the Time Square um area that Crescent third and fifth streets they're Mark as bike boulevards now um kind of as the bridge lands and you find your way into Time Square so bike boulevards being very slow speed streets where bicycle traffic is shared There's an opportunity to rethink some of those streets they become a network of one ways to allocate for specific dedicated head bike movement if that's desired so we have a couple of sketches and diagrams in the plan for that Time Square to Red Coconut being the first key um I think folks there know this well and we just wanted to make sure we are specific and memorialized the opportunity to get back and forth from time squ to Red Coconut since that's the most crunched AO Boulevard RightWay section there's not really room um for dedicated um bike to structure or wider sidewalks in the stretch from Red Coconut South the right away gets wider there are the bike Lanes so identifying a way for a um Beach Trail um which I believe the community has been working on is an alternative to get back and forth um from esto along the beach back up through and Crossing AO Estero through the town H Hall complex and then um making sure that the link continues through the Red Coconut site a separated at least 10 maybe even 12 foot wide shared use path through whatever the Red Coconut May um be in the future um so there are specific meetings when we are there making sure we discussing that and how that can work through and be a benefit not not just to the community but also to the Red Coconut site Redevelopment as a value ad these are some of the cross-sections looking at the future of a sto bouard we really saw that there was space um the top left cross-section is the existing cross-section you can see the B Lanes on either side that there's a possibility even without moving curves um or maybe minimal curb Improvement on one side to consolidate those two bike Lanes into a share Trail on one side that can be both horizontally and vertically separated me meaning it can be at sidewalk level and preferably buffered for moving cars um V in trees and start to get a Greener and safer more comfortable Trail um which I think could be really amazing for the community not just for Mobility but also for um adding green and um kind of a destination way to get back and forth that to enjoy there are a couple more sections that um maybe are are a little more um adding of green buffer widening of sidewalks on different sides of the streets a bunch of different alternatives we looked at that all have their um relative pros and cons so moving on to Newton beach park we heard loud and clear from the community Newton Beach Park um is a very well-loved place um a spot on the island with a lot of history in the mutants um there and just devastating especially devastating to the community to see uh that wiped away and now that the community has been moving on and no longer needing that spot um for Recovery operations like had been needed in the past and finding funding to move forward and kind of rebuild Newton Beach Park consistent with what the community is visioning now we had the opportunity to sit down at a table our landscape architect Alan BT had a roll of Trace paper and markers and this is the beauty of of working like this and being there with you folks to to sketch out alternatives for the future with everyone um in the room uh and making sure it's connected to the the history of place whe the community envisions should go back there and also making sure to be connected to the grant opportunities that have requirements for things like educational signage so the current site um we drew up a couple of kind of sketch Alternatives that are on the next slide different ways to kind of as a a bubble diagram almost arrange the pieces in different ways and see how they fit together and the pros and cons of various Alternatives and then move from that to consensus plan and so that that plan is in the report with some background um a couple key things that I'll mention about the plan um there's a network of a path Loop you can see kind of right to the South sto is to the top of the page here in the beach to the the bottom of the page there's a that kind of required and also very desirable walking path Loop through the site um where we can have the educational signage and enough of kind of a native plant green restoration as we possibly can and the cool thing that that does it kind of raise up the opportunity for flexible and almost modular um event meeting hangout spaces the big red box in the middle is an open air Pavilion um it could have small events there's opportunity for another small event space kind of on the other side of the path and the possibility for bigger events that those two could be combined into be one larger space um we show uh swings which we heard a lot from from the community and the ability to look out on the beach um we kept the parking on the North side and wanted to make sure that we heard um Ada accessibility to the beach in one of the few places where folks that have a harder time getting around can get really close to the beach we wanted to make sure to preserve that um and also the opportunity that maybe have of that parking closer to the beach is of a different um surface tavers or stone dust or something that could be another event space or even um that that whole parking area can still be used if needed in recovery from future that's the summary we have um a sketch here that our Landscape Architects biger did this is looking from above ASO towards the beach of what that might look and feel like um you can see the the temporary restroom facility there um and making sure we have a spot for that and the right of the burn with that I will turn it over to Margaret with good morning everyone thank you for having us join your meeting this morning we appreciate your time and we hope that you've all had a chance to take a closer look at the document and hope that this overview is helpful um I'll be kind of going over the concepts Fortin col as Boulevard in Times Square and as John and Ellie have both mentioned this morning I think one of the main components of this planning process of R2 P2 has really been building on existing plans and policies within the town so I feel like what we were able to work interactively with you all on is sort of a complement to existing plans and policies that you all have had in the works for a long time and part of that with old St Carlos Boulevard it truly represents the town's commitment to placemaking um and it's it's becoming and has been the downtown heart of the island with the long history with the investment in Bayside Veterans Park it really shows the um community commitment to this area as well as the public how how encouraging it can be when public improvements and private investment work together um when the Town Incorporated um the town made a commitment to Old St Carlos Boulevard and by doing so um making it a signature public space and in effect extending um making it an extension of Time Square and so that really touches on a beach to Bay connection um with wide sidewalks Street trees parallel parking um and in doing so when the Town Incorporated they also changed the Land Development regulations for Old St colis Boulevard to allow more buildings right up to the street and you can see the benefit of that town policy made um you know 25 plus years ago and what those built results are like and so that's a a wonderful example of town leadership and drawing lines on a map and really creating that place making that's a benefit to everyone in the community and so as recovery and rebuilding continues there's a lot of opportunities for um continued improvements and investment along World St Carlos Boulevard can skip ahead a little bit Yeah Bayside Veterans Park um we were honored to be a part of the story of Al St Carlos Boulevard working with the town in 1999 and Beyond and so just sort of looking back once again some of the plans and policies that are in place and that really help to shape the evolution of gold St Carlos so in the report you'll see um for each of these study areas we've outlined a a series of challenges as well as what we heard and what you'll see is um we were really looking at some of the regulatory um actions that are um that are necessary in these areas and the thing about Old St Carlos is it's located just outside of the most rest restrictive thema Zone and that's important because it helps to allow some expanded Redevelopment options that may not be possible in some of the more beachfront um properties the code um currently allows um for dry flood proofing which is also a great benefit because and you've seen that in some of your existing buildings along Old St Carlos um because you can um the buildings do not have to be elevated but you can do dry flip flp proofing on the ground floor and so the the benefit of continuing to invest in Old St Carlos is that the Land Development codes and the commercial design standards are already in place um that help to define the building place the building placement and there's opportunities to encourage to expand upon The Pedestrian friendly streetcape and do some additional enhancements and so through our work through the R2 P2 planning process we were able to create a change overtime sequence of what that continued town and private investment along the hson co Boulevard District would look like and really having the opportunity to sort of expand that that reminiscent energy and experience of Time Square and further that beach tobay connection along Old s Carlos and so one one possibility in the the near term is the continued public improvement with regards to street lights um Street trees helping to restore the uh shade and opportunities that really encourage more of that pedestrian activity looking at the private investment so being able to build taller buildings right up to the street um the current regulations looking at the FEMA and the town and the building code regulations um they do allow up to two stories um and so that's um that's that's encouraging especially with the dry flood proofing as well and then the opportunity to really capture the essence of the space and make it more um sort of the heart of the community with Fester Street murals or or just sort of public art and ways to really showcase that this is an important place in the history of Fort Meers Beech Time Square was a main topic of conversation during our R2 P2 planning work and um you know the long history of Time Square as well as the the reminiscent um feeling and overall connection to the space with the public Plaza as well as the buildings with restaurants and um shop fronts just filling out onto the plaza and unfortunately After the Storm many of these um buildings are are no longer there and even from your storms just past fall you know I was watching online and on Facebook and when I saw the clock being removed um you know you all have definitely been through quite a long experience of Storms and recovery and I was glad to see that the clock was coming back as well as the points had a Christmas tree and so that really says a lot about Time Squares as really being heart of the community and a Showcase of Community Pride H square is interesting with the public Plaza as well as the private properties and so what we were doing understanding that Time Square and the rebuilding of Time Square is really at the Forefront of many of the community conversations and so what we were doing was looking at the challenges just like we did in the other areas with regards to the regulations and the FEMA regulations the building code regulations and looking at options to illustrate a wide range of Futures for Time Square and we were really diving into what could be possible understanding that many of these properties small Parcels that we need to work together as they are private property and these are all just conceptual drawings these were just us sort of testing scenarios these are not necessarily solid recommendations of what could be but we working with the community as well as the property owners having some very beneficial conversations to understand the direction of the future of Time Square and some of the main things that we heard from the community was maintaining the architectural character the traditional Beach character of The Time Square area and so what we've tried to do is sort of illustrate what that could look like with regards to scale and massing and building Heights um also our prioritization and connections views to the water and looking at once again the building Heights and just we're very encouraged but the essential question is can the popular appeal of the former Time Square be recreated at this prime location so that was sort of the challenge that we were looking at so once again some of the the challenges um the federal flood plan regulations the high cost of Redevelopment um and then the um the the fact that many of the property of Time Square is seaword of the 1991 Coastal Construction Control line and that's very important because this is definitely um designated as a a highly vulnerable location and so that's definitely something to to take into consideration as rebuilding continues so as and and Bill can share some more with regard to this as well but we were looking at those development parameters of what's required in the code and um in the fort Mars Beach compl development code it's um one story above flood um but I believe bill has that been changed now yes okay okay um and so then looking as well at the uses the mix of uses and that there are um no parking requirements it's a very good thing for this area we also did some diagrams looking at the height and we thought this is very important to look at and as um yourselves as Town leaders to consider as um development decisions are being made as we move forward but looking at the scale of the original Time Square which is the top image that you see there um before hurricane Ian Pretty Low lung buildings um and then looking at some we've done a diagram in the middle there that shows one of our options which is um more transforming the space into Ark space and then the last is looking at the bottom the bottom diagram shows what would be possible by building under the new regulations and you'll see the the main component there is the elevation of the buildings moving up above the street level so we have a range of options these are all just concept drawings to sort of test the various scenarios based on the feedback that we heard from the community and the property owners in the town and so we looked at a range from what that would look like four times Square to have a park on the beach front or some development um most of these Concepts one two three and four continue to have that public Plaza at Time Square the fifth option looks at a Consolidated development where the property owners work together so in the report document we've outlined the these um once again just sort of going through sort of the pros and cons of each and sort of explaining these Design Concepts so the first one looking at the park on the beach front and then this one does include some temporary structures um that would be movable and so that's an opportunity need to um continue to get some businesses um in this area in the in the near term until brick and morar can continue this one also has more the park on the beach front but as well as the actual new buildings and new development coming in built to the standards that are required for this vulnerable area also um this one changes it up a little bit with what it was look like if the buildings were placed on the beach side and the park more community space was on the landord side of Time Square and then this is more of a more development that would be both on the beach and the landlord side of Times Square but you can see the scale of this is very different from what was originally the original character of Time Square and then option five as I mentioned is more this consol where the property owners would work together and consolidate Parcels to create one cohesive and complete development and in this scenario the Time Square public space would be elevated more like a boardwalk or walkway Incorporated in part of the development so once again these are all just scenarios just testing options just looking at what the regulations are requiring and what that would look like so a big part of what we were hoping to do through the R2 R2 P2 planning process is to help you all as public leaders to visualize change and to be to be able to further demonstrate what these changes could possibly look like more the scale and the massing of the buildings if the time square is to be rebuilt um in as previously decided in the location so we also in the report you'll see comparing options and so these were just sort of some things some feedback that we got from the town with regards to it be really helpful to have some ways to evaluate some of these options and scenarios and so these were some of the criteria that that we developed throughout this planning process similar historic to the historic ter Square looking at resilience public accessibility and then the amount of food um and Retail destinations on the on the property as well so these are just sort of some of the things that depending on what is a priority um you'll see that option one is the most resilient option with the park on the beach front side and then more of the movable structures um on the Time Square um landlord landlord side of the Times Square plaza so it's it's just an option to sort of think through the options and look at how you could possibly compare them and some of those scenarios and um sort of attainable measures you can look at to compare the different options especially as development moves forward thank you Margaret sorry I was trying to find my own um our report also provides some highlevel implementation actions for each of these Focus areas to help guide the town on sort of your potential next steps so there's a couple of pages of a table in the uh final report um and it we've tried to identify who in the town might take the lead to push these various items forward and in what time frame and order of operations uh they could potentially be undertaken so these are pretty uh intuitive and and simple uh next steps uh but the idea here is for each of these projects to kind of guide you on what you need to do uh over there or what you could do if you wanted to pursue any of these over the next couple of years so for example the islandwide mobility and connections John presented a lot of different uh elements to improving connectivity so uh the first task would be sort of taking those and having further discussion to prioritize um you know which of those elements you'd like to pursue first uh assemble funding select a contractor Etc um for Newton Beach Park um that plan uh I think is um you know represents a consensus from what we understood down there so maybe uh that one may be closer to happening I believe there is actually some funding in place to move that forward to some degree um and then uh you know what we presented is essentially a bubble diagram as John noted I mean it uh some uh beautiful pictures but there is some engineering design that would need to happen uh before you can uh select a contractor and construct that uh Time Square uh I would say on this I mean there there are a lot of elements to Time Square obviously in St Carlos Boulevard um and I I just want to point out I I think the biggest Next Step that we've talked about and that we heard a lot about is really maintaining and continuing communication around uh you know public engagement what the public wants to see and also engaging openly with the land owners to try to uh continue to understand what's possible what's allowed there um and what makes economic sense there so there's just ongoing discussions clearly that need to happen there and and maintain those um those open uh Communications is really uh important so um Old St Carlos Boulevard again you saw some ideas from Margaret about um things like replacing lighting um you know shade opportunities public art and so each of those things um can be undertaken you know sort of under a master plan idea but individually so um you know thinking about who might lead those this could be a variety of different folks Public Works um Town manager you'll see the town manager shows up a lot in in this as a uh Project Lead um but really somebody needs to kind of say yes we're going to pursue this and uh and then perhaps delegate but um this is as I said a very high level sort of implementation framework for taking any of these projects forward um but then there's really the next steps and uh I don't actually have a full detailed slide here for next steps because uh this is where uh you all come in so um we were very uh honored to be able to do this work with the community and we we really enjoyed it and what we really hope is that we provided you with a good jumping off point to pursue sort of some of these ideas facilitate the ongoing communication that uh hopefully we've set the stage for and to make some decisions around uh you know what are the different elements to improve resiliency in Fort Meers Beach um so we thank you very much much for uh the opportunity to work with you and the opportunity to present our report to you um and as I said at the beginning we're happy to stay on and answer uh whatever questions you may have um I also just want to reiterate that the report is you know and information about our process and uh throughout this whole project is all available on the website as I mentioned but it's uh Coastal f2p 2.com um so with that I will stop sharing um so that we can see each other and we'd be happy to answer questions and Bill spikowski is also in the room there if that helps to if he can help facilitate any Q&A that would be great too all right thank you Ellie and then Drew and John or Jan I'm sorry and Margaret for for that presentation it was pretty detailed it was it's been good working with you over the last year and a half two years to get to this point uh questions questions for the group vice mayor if I could uh bill spikowski is here he has an extensive history with Fort Meers speech I'm curious bill as to your thoughts here particularly next steps and also did you have a particular aha moment as you were doing this analysis the aha moment each time I come down here is where where you've come from from two years ago because I mean it's still it's still shocking as somebody who's you know not never lived here but has worked here a long time U but the the uh willingness of you all to to keep pushing forward is just just phenomenal it's completely energized us uh which doesn't make any of the solutions easy though and for instance at Time Square it's different than let's say the Red Coconut where one company bought the property and that one company can come to you for resoning or they can sell the property or they can sit on it Time Square is not the same way with all the small owners the multiple small owners was actually in my view the life blood of Times Square in that one small area you had eight or 10 different businesses all competing for attention and service and and that's really cool and that's one of the things that makes Fort Meers Beach so different from many other Beach communities where everything is big and and often fancy but but not that kind of variety but at Time Square if you just do nothing you're not going to get a proposal coming to you I don't think in the same way that you will from some of these other proper who's going to uh move forward unless they either own all the properties or have agreements from the other owners and so that's just a a problem that um problem opportunity that that doesn't fix itself I think the question for the town is the Town Council is do you want to wait into that or not or you just want to sit back and wait and see if somebody acquires all the property because there are things that you could do to um enable interim or even longer term uses of a very low cost Escape uh we're you know we're following of course the issues with FEMA and laa and and the shipping containers and so you might drop from that conclusion that there's no way that this sort of low-scale movable retail can work there and that's not true you can't have the shipping containers but that doesn't mean there couldn't be some combination of food trucks and shade structures uh that would allow the individual owners to go back to provideing the same kind of Services they do theyve did before but in in structures that are they're actually wouldn't be structures they'd be vehicles um that provide the food and so but that would take sort of you move it forward because your current code uh greatly restricts mobile vending and transient vendors and those are seen as pests that you might tolerate but in fact that option one is uh the Time Square options is actually making that a plan and it would take changes to your code to do and uh confirmation from FEMA uh about can't run a f a FEMA on the flood insurance as you know because they have a stick that's so big that you can't really avoid them but I think there is a middle ground and that's what we Illustrated in option one and also option one illustrates a acquisition public acquisition it's got to be will exeller we put a lot of effort into trying to find out if that's possible we understand the T can't afford to do that and uh FEMA and other agencies often do buy out flood damaged property but it's usually residential and so one of the things we explored was might they buy out flood damaged commercial property and the answer is possibly but there not a specific program that that says you know file an application by October one but it is an opportunity that could be pursued because it's not outside their mandate it's just there's not a funding source available right now but are the Property Owners interested because if they're not uh nobody's going to come in and and and take that property cond so anyway it's just the the number of issues that you always had down here that made such a fascinating Place plus all the new issues um it seems overwhelming but it also has a lot of opportunities uh given the community desire to to recreate as as best we can what this place has always been thank youill I always welcome your insights don't hide your light under a bushel as you we go through this process process if you have thoughts or ideas particularly as the is is the policy entity for the island policymaking entity for the council you you gave us a suggestion on how we could be helpful shortterm for Time Square but longer term given the fact that we have a a multitude of ownership there aside from FEMA coming in or a federal entity or even the state or the county to purchase it the entire time square and create a vision uh any any other ways you think given the current Dynamics where the town Council can be helpful well again it's a matter of um pursuing some of these sources I mentioned possibly FEMA but of course the tourist development counil spends a lot of money at for Myers Beach because they know you are one of the biggest draws for tourism in the entire County and again it's not something buying commercial property is not something they have done but they do things today that they didn't do before somebody came to them and said hey what about this um theer nishman for instance they used to say we would never do that then suddenly they're contributing to because they see its importance to tourism so but that that would take the Town Council saying we really think this would be a good idea and meeting with them and seeing it it might be possible and so these are the things though that you know I know you've got a million things on your plate just trying to get through the day on the other hand if you don't push on some of these from the top um they're not going to happen thank you John any questions for the group not currently thank you Scott I think I just have a comment specifically and then I do have a question for you Bill um my comment is on on the first plan we got an email this week from I think we I think we all got it from London Miller and what she said is what I'm hearing from my guests you know they they were happy to come down and support the community year one year two okay I kind of get the food trucks that we're getting things going but year three they don't want to come back here and have food trucks I think we need to focus on brick and water if we're going to retain guest coming year after year after year I I just don't think that first option is viable because the the people I'm talking to and and you know Linda verified it is that tourists don't want food trucks they want brick and water I think you know I think everybody thinks oh food trucks you know great idea what's cool yeah it's cool once a month but day after day after day food trucks now I mean I want to support the businesses but we've got to move forward so I guess Bill my my question to you sir is is of this report what what can we tackle the easiest and fastest would it be Newton Park would it be the interconnectivity certainly it's Newton beach park is is the first because you've already obtained funding just in just recently for that uh you have a consensus conceptual drawing now obviously needs detailed engineering and and all things that you know that would have to be commissioned by the town uh using those funds so that that's number one doable um a lot of these others are a lot more complicated uh for instance the just as you mentioned about the food trucks I mean if you think of food truck experiences standing in line out in the sun and waiting for your order and then sitting on a picnic table okay food's good that's nice but it's not an appealing experience but what people are doing in all around the state and around the country is is creating food truck parks where the experience not like that and it's it is an attraction sure the one out I can't name skates me but there's one out by the airport there's one by the airport there's one in uh downtown Fort Meers on Bay Street that just opened a few months ago backyard social and one it's not backyard social but it's it's on Bay Street right across from U the convention center and there's celebration in CER County and they're popping up all around so what they have there food's coming out of a food truck but the seating area is fun and there's often live music and are shade and often actually table service so uh it's not it's not the oldtime scoreback uh would be not as good but it could be it could be good and one of the things I say don't don't dismiss this because even if ultimately uh the future is bricks and mortar that can take years and years and this kind of could be an interim step uh but it would like say it would take some changes to your code that you'd have to do so if you there's no consensus to do it and don't spend any more time on it there's a consensus to consider it you would have to take the action direct the Amendments that be written by your staff the other problem with that though too Bill is that you know I understand the food trucks for food but people also want beer and wine and liquor and drinks and the way the liquor license is is you cannot have you can't serve serve out of a mobile trailer so a food truck on Wheels cannot serve the liquor which is where laola kind of buted heads with everything because they made the stable container for the liquor sales and they had the food truck so I mean how how do you change the state liquor license type things or how do you make Headway with something like that even on a temporary basis yeah this is the the one I referring to on on Bay Street um downtown basically had that same issue itself is much an entertainment venue as food and they do have three shipping containers there but FEMA says we can't they they can do it because they're in the a zone right you're on the other side of the line and so you you can't use the shipping containers period uh I wouldn't um the state liquor laws don't change often but I would never say under different circumstances that that they're not changeable because uh this is an economic development issue it would have applicability other places uh and and although the state might not want to change that for everywhere uh I mean what to do with popular places along the beach where you can't do it what you did before I mean that's actually something I think would be of interest to the state and I wouldn't immediately assume that that's not possible yeah I would I would think our goal would be you know I I'm fearful that when the pier gets built and still nothing's going on there that wasn't our goal our goal was to have everything kind of dub tail together and open at once the biggest issue I've had with it is we we've tried to get all the owners together to sit down in a room and come up with a plan and it obviously is not going to happen unless you have everybody willing to play in the sandbox together nothing like this is going to happen with brick and mortar how do you get to a point of having one person controlling most of that and as you said bill I don't know that the town has the resources to be able to acquire that land especially at the the cost of what some of the land owners want for it but I don't see how we can get to your point Scott with the peers coming right right and we still got fencing sitting down there so you know we got to we got to attack that part first we got to get that stuff out of there first so then you can maybe see a vision of what it can do and we need be good stewards of our own property we've got the Time Square right away in there we need lead we need to lead by example we need to get ahead of this and we need to start putting that in I know when we were trying to do it before the storm there was infrastructure things that were going to be going into it that would tie into the existing businesses and not knowing what's going in there makes it a little bit more difficult but I think I think we need to take the first step in leading by example taking care of our taking care of our area especially if we can get some funding through cdbg or grant funding or something to be able to do that to either one entice the owners to get back to the table and work together or sell it to somebody who's willing to be a good partner with the community and get this going because the perer is coming and I share those same those same um I don't want to say fears but same concerns same concerns that you're going to have a nice beautiful period and we're still going to have a fence sitting there with old dilapitated 4 by 2x two squares of 17 quates of paint on it you know so I guess that would be my suggestion is is to attack that alligator closest to the boat and that and that's us well and I think some of the owners are moving ahead in their own Direction now whether that's the best thing for that because there is you know that the one drawing that the neighborhood company did showed a lot of economy of scale of them working together and sharing elevators and doing all that but it takes money and a lot of these owners don't have the funding to be able to do that so where we as a town could help in some of that funding measure and some of those grants and with the TDC or with you know crb gdr wherever it could come from um to give them a boost or give them a Direction I mean I think that's something we got to be focusing on as well I agree I I I would love to see the town try to put a plan in place to acquire the property to be able to do what we can do to tie into our right away is that feasible I don't know it never hurts to ask right but um you got to have a willing seller I think is what Bill said you have a willing seller and a willing buyer well we have willing sellers just not at affordable pricing pricing that that's true you know how realistic price I think that's a question that should go out to our residents as well how important would it be for the town to potentially own that property between Crescent and Lal Park and would they be willing to fund it I don't know I guess we could ask him to find out but be a great public survey do something but I mean I guess Bill if you had a magic wand what would you I you've been so instrumental in the comprehensive plan Atlanta velco over the last 30 years that you've seen a lot of changes you've seen people come and go in your head what would you see is the best possible outcome for the town when it comes to the Time Square well you know so many things are incredibly expensive and take so much coordination but there are other things that are simple like changing the land I don't I mean it's simple it's complicated but but comparatively it's simple and so to when I see a rule and you know I may have written it for the town 25 years ago on on mobile bending that would prohibit this sort of food truck Park concept prohibit it not because somebody thought about that and said we shouldn't allow that but because they thought of you know somebody else's mobile vendor popping up in front of somebody else's business restricted so to me changing eliminating code barriers where they should be eliminated is so simple that you should do it even if even if ultimately Time Square has a brick and mor solution because why wouldn't you want to have some small medium uh things happening in Time Square if if the problem is is largely a rule that was written for a different purpose so I I think some r rules like that are real easy to change other roles that are a little harder to change is for instance um trying to imagine different kinds of development rules for Time Square the rules you have now were again from 19 they from 2002 and they said that any of those owners can rebuild up a story with the same square footage but now up a store uh nobody took advantage of that um I think I'm not sure uh but because the cost of doing that is really high for a small property I mean in the the space you waste on the stairs and elevators it's just it's really it's really prohibitive uh you do now allow two stories above flood um so that helps but uh it's still it's still problematic for the small owners and there's almost no way for you to deal with that because you're not in the development business of buying people out you don't have the money you don't have the desire probably wouldn't want to do it even if you had all that um but when I talk about the possibility of of acquisition any government agency that's going to acquire that property cannot pay more than market value so it doesn't really matter if somebody paid too much because out of enthusiasm that nobody's guaranteed to get out of it what what they put into it they put into it too you know nobody knows what that too much number but that's what property appr apprises do and argue about so um I think that the possibility of acquisition uh with funding from outside the town whether it would be T Council or some of these FEMA programs um it's definitely worth exploring because the effort to do that is again it's like changing the Land Development code it's relatively small compared with going out and building a building private owner does that or you as the town do it with your town hall you know suddenly you need parking and suddenly you know you get into that you end up huge expenses so do the easiest stuff first that's my bottom line suggestion yeah I mean anybody hasn't had a chance to check out backyard social and P Myers it's it's actually kind of interesting how they they they use shipping containers but they elevated them so I I mean I think I guess depends on FEMA Carl's not here but so you could technically use shipping containers for you know alcohol service or whatever if they're elevated to a certain height so I I don't know if that's kind kind of a mix mid Midway solution to something like you're talking about versus just food trucks but providing a space like that again if nobody's been there they've got nice patio up there you can sit on it's covered it's it's open air but it's it's covered where they're suing food and alcohol they got a little stage there it's it's it's pretty neat and it was fairly inexpensive in talking to the people that put that together compared to Brick and Mortar it was it was a cool it's a cool concept it's it's something I think the town could do very easily I think it would be something that would be financially achievable from the property owners there um to allow like the laas type of open people love that that space right so to do some kind of backyard social thing there on that property I think that's something that like Chris or somebody could probably probably function and make that happen but and by by changeing a few minor roles you would allow any individual owner on their own to do something maybe not the liquor house I'm not familiar as you are with with that role uh and I do know that the back here at Social um I did look at it pretty closely um and concluded that it could not be done it cannot be replicated exactly the Time Square because of your flood zone but the and and the shipping containers and the liquor I think is the is the key difference they were allowed to do that by elevating just a very small amount your elevation requirements are really high and by the time you get up that high weather it still makes sense to do it in shipping container I I don't know but again if the uh so that could either be a could be both an interim Sol for individual owners to start activating that space it could ultimately be something that a lot of people would want to do either jointly or individually again few few roles in the way a few unnecessary roles in the way you know that's the kind of thing to start with all right well thank you Bill just one more bill because you're you're here we don't often get you here in the benefit of your wisdom I I'm curious because the the report focused a lot on re-energizing old San Carlos I'm not trying to get into the granular details of the proposal but I'm curious as to your thoughts if if a if a a more modest uh Arch's proposal was to resurface at Moss Marine what's what what do you think the impact of that would be on the en on on energizing old San Carlos that Corridor there I mean it could either help or it could draw energy away and it's it's it's hard to know I mean the concept behind the AR just was you have sort of an anchor for old S car Time Square and this could have another Waterfront anchor at the other end and the idea being it would benefit the whole um but you know right now San Carlos is pretty beat up and and this Falls storms sure didn't help and are likely to continue being a problem uh and you know something really new and nice and shiny next to something pretty driv and run down it could also sap energy I would try and tell you which what I think would happen I don't know okay thank you but I mean the idea was all S car and times always worked together you know that was always the idea in the beginning was you had this little tiny Colonel of Time Square and then old son Carlos was just the road off the bridge with a few abandoned fast stor but I'm just wondering with the struggles with Time Square with this the Synergy of of an arches Proposal with Margaritaville it seems like that Corridor with old s Carlos might be might be enhanced it might it might be and and also Crescent Street could could be enhanced again being the Connecting Point between when people go out for the evening they don't just go to one place they like to go sometimes to a couple places and that's the that's the walk in between so could definitely thank you mayor yes me a couple options and as I'm listening up the p3s are are very Pro functional in a in a municipality public private Partnership of course you have to own the land um so if we did that that'd be a bond issue uh the other thing is that we did talk about ad nauseum is the um um s my mind but the um CRA um for that whole area where all the tax dollars go there and of course as As Time Square would be developed everything would have to leave in order for construction for two years it would just be a dead zone so there's a lot to think about investing money in a a storage un you know uh conx is to be put up and then they'd have to come out at some point and and that type of thing so there's a lot to to think about with a P3 but that that is a an option in a lot of towns and municipalities do that but I think the CRA is probably going to be the best focus and that way all that that Revenue stays in that area for 20 30 years whatever the the time I think it's 20 years if I'm not mistaken so we probably need to really start focusing on that particularly in that area at least start the money for those for those non Floridians C similar to a tiff district is that correct that is correct yes I me just comment really quickly to Bill's Comet and to to Andy's Comet the City of Cape Coral is currently building a Food Court Mobile Food Truck court right on the clusa Hatchy right when you come off the cap Coral Bridge um it's been a project that's been going on for a year now um they had little issues with the restrooms just like our friends at Margaritaville did there on the beach uh but they've got that figured out and it's going to be uh an In-N-Out type place with all the utilities coming from above um they thought it out pretty well and they're due to open here I think in the spring and it'll host pretty close to 10 different food truck vendors with Resturant facilities and it's right there for everyone to see there's a lot of different options for lack of a better term quick income quick turnaround but longterm solution is going to be a biger p to swallow again I think it starts with us leading the bus correct are driving the bus and we've got Land There we can take care of we need to start taking care of yep all right thanks Bill unless somebody else has a question from all right again thanks team for for all your hard work and uh this report I'm sure people that are listening are clicking on there to check it out now so have a have a great day happy holidays Merry Christmas whatever would you ever float your boat thank same to you thank you so much yep take care how'd you know I was a boian all right next is Item B the leasing of town right away for private property use who's going to start that Judith good morning Judith Frankle um with the planning staff um this issue has come up a couple times um with proposals that planning um staff have seen um and so we wanted to bring it to you all in this less formal setting before we bring you an actual proposal just to kind of test and see where your your feelings are um I would like to let you know that one particular application that we've seen the um representative is here today Mr Jim Inc representing U 1901 Estero um I'm told that typically at &ps you don't take public comment but I'm also told that that's up to you um and I think that he is uh prepared to give public comment on the topic if that's your your desire I think first let's let's get our questions to you and maybe they'll he wouldn't need to you know you may not need to speak if he doesn't you know so I have included in your your backup material the um kind of receipt and forms that 1901 Estero had historically used just so you could see an example of what has been historically um done and um but I have not provided you the proposal that staff has seen for what would happen on that site so it's really just to kind of get a a policy Direction I guess my question to you first youth would be what's the if if this was already a policy that was in place before why is Staff bringing it forward now to potentially is it your recommendation that you want to change it or no so I I don't have a particular recommendation I'm asking forend I guess what I'm trying to get at is if if it's already been in place that it's been allowable yes why is it coming before us if we haven't brought it up that it was an issue so um uh can you Judith real quick I'm sorry to interrupt but for the people who are watching they don't have a packet in front of them could you explain what this property is sure so can I answer the mayor's question whatever so um uh in reviewing what the town policy is is resolution 18-20 which really just seemed to carry forward um what had been established pre the Corporation of the town so when the town was being U run by the county there were certain RightWay portions that um the county had leased to private property owners and there was an agreed upon uh amount for that Leasing and then uh resolution 1820 kind of carried that forward so if you had an existing agreement the town agreed to continue with that agreement um now because a lot of those properties and there's not very many of them I think there's about six where we're talking about parking specifically um those properties are coming from Redevelopment so in um our opinion because there are new Property Owners because there there new projects going in this is the opportunity to um consider whether you want to continue that and if you would like to continue it as is um we can bring a new resolution just to memorialize it um as policy um um as these projects come back um so we thought this was a good time just to bring it to you do you want to continue in this manner or do you want to you know revisit it in some way um uh 1901 Estero um is uh as the corner of Estero in Ohio it's where the former hooers uh restaurant was um and what they're planning to redevelop that property and and meeting with staff they said um along with the Redevelopment they would like to maintain that um that leasing that relationship with the town of um leasing about nine spots um along Ohio so we in speaking with the um the town attorney how would we set up this agreement what would it look like what is the the rate going to be um and the the property owner was kind enough to provide us with their historic documents about that agreement and so that's what you see in your packet um just I just wanted to show you what the price was um what the application looked like and how that was operating so the question is really are you fine with that should we continue with that process or would you like to do something different moving forward um have we had any conversations with the fire district I mean if they're the ones that I I think we would want to get as long as it doesn't bother them I don't I don't seem to have an issue with it but I mean especially it's been done in the past so um I have not had communication with the fire department um generally there's standards for the width of the right of way you know for for vehicle traveling and that would be you know respected this is kind of additional width of the right of way um there's the many of these cases I said there's about six where there's it's been parking spots that were allowed to be used um there's another one where it was really an an Alleyway um and then the permit has also been used for um uh Sidewalk Cafe options but we haven't seen any of those recently um so just to did I answer your question well you did but you've also teased out some potential breaking news about the hooers Redevelopment is there anything that you want any additional detail you feel comfortable sharing or I see Jim and the you might want to ask Mr Inc about that um they are are working on something that we want to bring to LPA but their um proposal is depend dependent on being able to use that parking as they had historically used it so we didn't want to bring it to the LPA until we had to understand but let's work under the premise that let's say that that that policy's continued what do we what do we in a general sense what are we looking at for that property well let's let's let's get the questions out and then if everybody's okay we'll let Jim come up and if he decides he wants to answer that if people are comfortable sharing of course I mean one of the things that out to me when I saw it is $100 per space per year I mean that goes back a long way I think and I would love to know what the current rate is for something like that in other municipalities I have a question though there's another receipt for 424 so what I was really confused that there's the the way the the the pricing was set up is that it was a $100 uh spot unless you made your payment before November 30th of the previous year in which it was discounted in half so then it was only $50 a space wow pretty good deal that's a deal yeah I think that needs to be looked at no matter what we so you did approve um a new fee schedule right I think in June or July of this year and that fee is you know continued in there so we would probably need a new resolution to if you wanted to adjust that again to add add to that the discussion we had I believe it was with the Neptune property um the potential for each spot at $5 per hour is $60 per day for those spots and that's potential so you can't go with what is the you know I guess once those spots start being used you can actually go with the actual what are we seeing and we can kind of break it down farther but each spot has a potential of bringing in at its Max over that 12 hour period per spot that's per day so that's a far cry from $100 a year right I guess for me I see where you're going with it with that Karen I'm just and I see what you're saying but without knowing what they want to put there and what they potentially might be asking for or not asking for it's hard you're putting the cart before the horse so I I will add for this particular project although I think it makes sense to think about it as a general policy um for everyone um it's not that large of a site they are trying to maintain the portion of the building that you see there the the blue portion um and you know building a new section of it um uh they feel well so the in order to be compliant with their parking requirement they would be dependent on this town-owned RightWay portion which um I think essentially makes it even if it's an annual agreement it's we're kind of agreeing that they can use it in perpetuity with the project um so that's another aspect and you said there's potentially only six properties on the island that this would well historically now I don't we haven't reviewed all potential RightWay spaces I mean and one of them for sure is well I won't say for sure but one of them is probably not going to be asking for that um so if we're talking about five maybe historically um but we could see more um and there's an additional one property um where they were using um kind of an Alleyway that we let them use um we may want to consider that because it's it's I think kind of a oneoff we may want to consider that individually when they come for their project whether we want to continue that or not all right John nothing yeah I guess for me I don't I don't have an issue with continuing it for we can talk about the pricing of it allow you to get time as you bring that resolution forward for you to look at other municipalities and see what the going rate is I guess if this was done 30 years ago what is it now you know is it is it something that um I don't know that $60 a day makes sense but I had thought that's that's what we're currently getting at a spot I I may be incorrect but I thought before the storm when the town had some parking spaces they or or some RightWay issues where where we were parking cars at my hotel and at uh a couple other hotels that I thought the going rate was like a thousand spot a year yeah I don't know I I guess I would put that back on staff to I mean I I I never did it but that's kind of the number I thought was floated out there that it was I I did talk to Tom yazo yesterday and I know that the the town has been doing some rental of parking spaces um uh like occasionally if you're doing construction you might want to rent the the space for your trucks or staging or something like that and there's a separate licensing agreement that worked on so maybe you want to use that in these situations I think this was different because it was you know not grandfather but it was just like carried over from what the previous agreement had been so if there had been something new they might have fallen under that licensing agreement um that Cod compliance had worked on yeah because there there's a lot of um you know right right by Time Square there's a couple hotels and condos that time shares that I thought it was $1,000 a spot okay we can look at that it wouldn't have fallen under this right of weight permit um that this particular property was was utilizing okay yeah and I have no problem with moving forward or staying with the RightWay agreement I just think we need to look at the cost or at the pricing of it okay my my second question would be would you want us to bring forth a resolution with a suggested amount yes before you see the project or could we bring them at the same time I'd like to see them together yeah I don't have any ISS might have a much better idea what the overall project is going to look like but we're only ready to start one project right I just wanted to I think you should do it as soon as possible because there's other Pro so other Pro other people that may have this issue when they're looking at hey am I going to buy this or not we we've set a precedent and and the words out that here's here's the deal going forward so I would think you'd want to do this first before waiting on his project okay I mean again we could ask him I think he would like to move forward makes sense to me it's fine it's fine makes sense to me yeah at least you know ahead of time because I don't want to do it just for this one project in mind I want to see the it's it's a it's a change of policy and it should be a change for everybody yeah that needs it if I can add I think Scott was looking at my notes um so what you have I mean these these projects oh man we're not in grad school anymore so you you've done it I can't see that's my problem um no Anna seriously though um you know these uh projects that come to you they are all quasi judicial so when we when these projects come will make this disclosure I'm glad that the applicant's representative is here today as well so they are on a case-by Case basis but I believe what um Judith is asking is for policy Direction so that when there are other projects that come as well just like Scott said um she knows what which direction to go with them and um and yes so how do you want to handle that I think I've heard that it's okay to have these type of agreements for certain projects um as they come forward and then also an issue on the fees um and then just you know from a technical side we're we're calling it a lease it's really just a rightaway permit which is basically legally more of a license and not an actual leasing situation so that's just a fine technicality I wanted to share that renews on an annual basis correct correct I believe that's the policy Direction given so so if I may a point of personal privilege here because some of us from Indiana are still savoring the possibility of a bread and pork tender line again at usurers can we can we can I likes it too can I ask for unanimous consent to allow Jim in just to to discuss what he to the extent he wants to discuss since he's here today uh just give him a minute or two I have no problem with that you guys have any no come on up Jim for the record Jim k engineering um I've been here as a planner and an engineer and this project 1901 Estero has been going on for a very long time and we're having a lot of little hiccups and difficulty getting it there but the intent is under the billback provisions to put back the square footage and put back the uses that were there before so yes restaurant upstairs is a high possibility uh the problem being is under the billback provisions site is not covered adequately of what that means and we had a site that had parking on a stero it had parking on Ohio some parking on Ohio which is what we're talking about this morning and without that we've done a what can we do Cod compliant plan for staff through our yearlong process we've been going through and we can't build hardly anything so that's why we brought that up so we just want to put back what we had nothing more nothing actually less cuz we we backed off some of the parking on a stair row back out parking on a stair row near the intersection to make it safer but we're going to be before you we're going to be asking for some variances we're going to maybe be doing a PD we're trying to figure out what that is right now so we can move forward but Eddie who you know donated land for the the S sculpture or donated the use of the parking there for the Sam sculpture thing that you recognized last week he's very much interested he would like to start construction now but we seem to be having all these problems so our goal today was to just get you guys to say yeah we like the idea it's possible the fee I agree $100 a year kind of low but that goes back a long time so that's that's really weird where we are in our standpoint and we would love to share the drawings and stuff that we have with you at some point in the near future because it's very exciting did you take comfort in the direction that we gave Judith or was that not enough Direction no I think that was good direction we're going to come back with a resolution we'll bring it back together with whatever entitlement we need I mean when you ask for variances and the parking resolution I don't know how that marries up if we were doing a PD let's say then we could put it in the conditions of the PD so that makes it unified makes it control keeps it for this project specifically that if somebody else wants to use it they have to determine that it works for them you're not set the Precedence under the PD so I'm just sitting in the audience I don't really want to do another PD but it is probably the right way to handle it in in this situation um why wouldn't you do a DA excuse me what about a development agreement I'm not a big fan of the development agreement yet but we would look at that I'm I I'm more in tune to doing a PD I don't think time frame really makes any difference cost doesn't make any really difference I just think the PD is is better in that instance but maybe the da Works we're just trying to get directions so so we can move forward sorry about that you know we would love to have it done now I get find yeah new guy and the mayor did see a little sneak peek of of the rendering so I did it's just whoa well I'll tell you what I I'll I'll pass it around we we'll pass it around and I just for for staff's edification we still are treating every project as a case by casee basis there are some that may have had things available to them in the past that doesn't make sense moving forward and the way that we're building back our town but those things again just like Council said treated as a case toase basis Nancy because we're seeing it does it mean the public yes it's it's now going to become officially public and you'll get one yeah I think Amy's already had a request for a copy of it um and then we we'll make the disclosures at at meeting see the development is the structure that's there now the base structure was designed as flood prooof the base structure is solid I think so we're going to just strip it down to the structure we're going to rebuild that section and it's just gingerbreading on the outside Albert does a really good job and then we're replacing the old wood structure that was lost in the storm on the other side and and we've got the stuff so Ian we're real excited about it and like I said we would we would love to have it open it's a beautiful piece of architecture J great and and since you're so loquacious this morning do you have any uh do you have ability to to u to share whether who yours might be coming back I do know the details of that I mean that's up to the restaurant tour tenant who had that or someone who wants to do that okay I mean I don't think there's any objection to putting who your back right it's just who we don't know the owner is just a okay so Jim would it you can have this never mind never mind you already answered my question so okay thank you for the time I look forward to coming back with uh getting this going thanks you y anything else on that anyone John no all right next is item C code of ethics it's a review of the town code of eth ethics policy Yep this is me um this shouldn't take very long because all I'm trying to do is just get a little Direction and actually not really consensus I'm just going to let you know what we're going to be doing um a couple meetings ago when councilor King brought up my employment agreement I went and started looking at at that to make sure that whatever we brought back to you was was proper and I noticed something in here about the um the the code of ethics that that I'm required to to be uh governed by and it's uh Florida code of ethics for public officers employees that's all of us by the way Town codes of Ethics public records of law Sunshine Law or the Lee County Code of Ethics it was like blah blah blah or plus we have a a um handbook that tiis is working on we're trying to get it get everything a little more streamlined a little more 21st century as we've talked a little bit about that uh even with the parking fee for that so I'm going to have meetings with you so we can discuss this so we can make sure that it took me a little while to find go to Clerk and we had to I had to do a few things just to get all of them combined and they're all very similar but I the Lee County one was kind of a new one to me because it's like okay I get that but we should we should be Standalone from them so I just wanted to incorporate hours update hours I'll get with the attorney we'll work through this to make sure that we bring back one that's you know it it's it's changing times I know we all do our annual uh ethics training I want to make sure our staff's doing that things like that so I want everything incorporated into one document instead of you know four or five documents okay well this one doesn't say that but this one says that so which one are we discipline people by and how are we doing this just want to make sure we're consistent with how we move forward with everything we do and we're reviewing the handbook we want to just make sure everything's just all the te's are crossed and eyes are dotted so this just made me think about it because I'm also Bound by the icma international City Managers Association that I'm a member of their code of ethics it's on my wall so they're all kind of and town staff should be too but but they're not members of that so I want to make sure that we just incorporate the right things and again there's there's no issues the issue is that we we're being governed by four or five code Codes of Ethics did I say that right code of ethics um but you get the point um so I just want to make sure and if you had any input now or I will have individual meetings with you specifically about this what sorry one of the things that when I was reading through all this that I think is a huge Miss and probably because it hasn't been looked at in so many years is social media and how that plays into to everything um whether it's through interviews or postings or whatever it may be because a lot of times there's a lot of information leaked before it comes from our Pio and that is I think not ethical um so I just think that we need to bring it up to the 21st century because I'm sure when all this was in and nobody's updated it but social media wasn't a factor um that's true YouTubes everything else media platforms it wasn't a factor and now it is and especially you know when we're being asked about things that are coming up for votes and giving our opinions in public is you know there's that cone cone of silence when we go out for bids and things why wouldn't we have that same thing when we're coming up for voting on things so I don't know that's just some of my thoughts when I was reading through all this I can agree more okay I don't know I was mesmerized by a phunny Southern accent but I go ahead no go ahead I had a I had a constituent who uh is a a regular viewer of these proceedings and reads through the packets diligently and she had some questions about the uh Clarity of the gift rule for the town employees and for the Town Council and Nancy I don't know if you've had a chance to review the document yet but it it seemed a bit unclear and when this comes forward if we could just clarify that for the public yes I'm happy to do that in fact I'm working with TSA we're trying to get a um PowerPoint presentation or a video uh so that when she does her onboarding for employees that they would be aware of what their requirements are and then we would put that in your um code of ethics as it applies to you okay and and when that comes forward would you would you mind just giving a a brief recap publicly of what the gift rule is so the public can be aware of it as well right thank you thank you I have an interesting example about that um when I was at the city of Jacksonville in 2000 I was part of the Ethics Committee that was performing ethics policy for the city of Jacksonville so I think gifts were you know there was the highest threshold for everybody except elected officials and so we were trying to formulate that and trying to get it to where it was consistent there was a lot of resistance I'm not saying there's resistance that's not my point my point was that that everything was agreed to and for years and all of a sudden there was a new owner of the Jacksonville Jaguars and there was a new box and there was a new way of you know and the town owed the stadium and stuff like that so how did we allow them now to sit in the Box for the the owner of the Jacksonville Jaguars when you know during the games and things like that so then so then the council a 19 member Council voted almost unanimously okay well that's okay for us to do that but nobody else can do that so you so then that threshold you know what's that amount you know and everywhere I've been before if you do something like okay then I i' pay you back or or you know you pay your way but anyhow is watching the Jag is watching the Jaguars a benefit I think be more like a punishment well this year there had been a time you know of course when the Packers well I'm just going to stop um no there I I'm not a jaguars fan I was making an example so I think the people who live in Jacksonville would probably argue that point but I do know there's probably a lot of people who play against the Jaguars who like to go you know to the games too and stuff so I'm just you know but I thought it was interesting that at gosh that was you know 10 12 years ago that that I heard that they had changed their ethics policy just to make an exception for that particular thing so we we you know it's kind of a slippery slope sometimes so does that value is it set every like 10 years or is it I think even in that situation if they change their local code their local ethics code they're still going to be bound by 112 and that is really where we need to look for guidance as far as what you can do and what you can't do and I did way back I did have a couple questions here in the town about the gift law and its ability so um so we'll bring that to you a revision good do these just apply to um employees or would are committees even be bound by this committees as well that's that a good point um one thing we even did was with our ethics and even all of our policies everywhere I've been before and I'm I'm I'm pretty sure but we made sure that it was put in all of our contracts too that any of the contractors they understood you know sexual harassment policies going a little further but they had to agreee to all that that that they they they are now Bound by our policies as it relates to everything so that was interesting to bring that up I think that's even it goes beyond just employees at times anybody we contract with as well should be found by that well then um I guess I would like to see us because I'm not sure we've covered committees on this uh we do we do the sunshine law but maybe we should piggyback on that as well when we do a presentation to those committees we can do that and and I just also want to add that in the city of Naples they have a standalone ethics commission um they have an Ethics code and then their local commission actually uh reviews complaints for possible violations of it that's true so that's in addition to the Statewide um ethics commission and there's a couple other communities that have a similar structure sure I'm not advocating that you I just want you to know about it if somebody brings it up but the other ethics commissions are more so on the um East Coast correct would you to John's question Nancy would you have a challenge legally enforcing that I I could see potentially The Advisory committees that are statutory advisory committees like LPA and audit committee but the other committees are not statutory advisory committees could they be bound I think they all are yes okay yeah but I'll check just to double check see and I thought just the opposite I thought only the statutory committees were were Bound by that and not like the Bor cab or cell cab or something like that so it would be interesting to find out which is which well I guess it depends on what we're talking about ethics if we're talking about what Andy was talking about with um monetary gain or somebody like that then yeah I can I can get away with that but we I would hope we'd all be bound ethically uh whether we're serving on a committee or not anything else am no sir thank you all right next is item D advisory committee appointments so this this one and the next one we're bringing to you um at a recent meeting um we went through uh we revised your policy on SEL ction of um members to serve on on committees this item D is basically uh revising your um your manual your rules and procedures your policies and procedures manual to um to clarify that when there's a tie that the next vote would only be of the individuals who were tied yes not everyone that had not been selected cuz we kind of got hung up a little bit on that the last go around um so you know today is a workshop so we'll be bringing that to you on um on a future agenda yeah I was reading then there the CH I I think we all agree with that change but does it do we need to go further when you say a tie technically zero and zero is a tie yeah so you must at least receive because you could read it either way in there you read you have to receive at least one vote at least one vote that results in a tie mhm okay no it should be the people that are tied not if if somebody there's two two and two and somebody has one the person with one is right well there wouldn't be a tie right if there's two people at two want a One my point was if no one receives any votes that's zero well okay so a tie of three a tie of three so anyone that has the same number in that in that tie a tie vote among zero because if there's if there's zero you don't want them appointed right because what I'm saying is someone could say well zero is still a tie why am not getting why am I point anybody receiving votes you have to receive at least one vote to but you're still open yourself up if it's just like with uh with Mur there was a whole go of people applying then a number of people got one vote but there were two people with two votes I just want the the closest to that threshold to be in in the runoff not everybody that gets a vote right right you could turn yourself into a mathematical which we kind of got into I think so I don't know how to word that but I think that's that's yeah it would be the highest of if you had two people at zero two at one and two at two you would move forward with the two right we have to make that word right but if everybody got zero then we would go out and try to solicit perhaps more applications yeah all right I'll play with that wording um and then I'll bring it back to you at a future meeting and you can take action upon the resolution thought it would have been so complicated right um okay so your next go ahead we're good there yeah next is advisory committees item e qualifications this you Nancy yes this is um so this one um is basically at that same meeting um there was a little bit of uh questions raised regarding what the qualifications were and it was based on a recent amendment that you had made to your um code of ordinance or yes to your code um that really broadened um the ability of of individuals to to be considered as eligible for appointment um and that language appears on page 105 of your packet um and it basically reads individuals with specialized experience or knowledge individuals who have shown interest in the subject matter or individuals who have a Fort Meyers postal code so we wanted to bring it back to this meeting to make sure that we got that right and if you wanted to change that we'll bring it back to another meeting at a first reading so you can change your ordinance with the exception of what the the LPA and the audit committee right were the only two that they had to be registered correct correct um and Amy just reminded me as well um another issue that has come up that we would like some guidance on is how many committees can they serve on um because if it's if it's two you have to we have to ask you if you're willing to allow them to have a waiver but if it's three do you still want us to bring that I think three is just too many I do two I think two Max I think two Max okay I love the passion of of any individual wants to be on all these committees but I I think they two share the wealth share the wealth a little bit and the knowledge okay so that helps on that issue but the first issue as far as um the qualifications did you want any type of change there that we could bring back or here here's my heartburn around this is these are Town committees and now we have individuals on there that are not qual that don't fall into those categories there're a special category on their own because of their knowledge or their experience um there's nothing to say that the committee can't bring in an expert to talk about issues that come up but these are Town committees and and that kind of bothers me that we're we've we've now left off people that were Town residents or qualified otherwise because someone who doesn't live here has some specialized experience or knowledge so where John where where would you draw the line just on the island or 33931 because a lot of lot of people that that live close by are you know as the town is the the town's Prosperity translates to their Pro Prosperity I I'm not against that Scott that's why I advocated including the 339 31 zip code um okay that's that's that was my question not we go all the way up to this specifically deals with people that are ex experienced or knowledgeable that are now on a committee and have served in the past I've got nothing against these people but now it's a town committee we've not allowed somebody that wanted to be a part of it to be a part of it because this person uh was was picked because of their knowledge or experience so I I guess my question is there's there's still quite a number of I I don't know how many people on the Committees are displayed I know on but is it do we penalize somebody for their house being destroyed in the Ian and they haven't gotten back to the island yet or there's still Property Owners so as Property Owners it's okay yeah okay or or do we go back to the original premise that I think we had with um you know a nod is given to if you if you are a resident of the town or you own property in the town that kind of thing um over someone who is not if all things are equal if their experience is equal if their knowledge is equal if that kind of thing do we give special Credence to someone who actually lives on the island I'm trying to understand the the cricks of your your angst here John is it because of the wording the way it says specialized because the second line after that then says no specific allowed an individual who doesn't live here to be on a committee um they don't reside here uh they're not aor they're not a voter uh so they're now on a committee that has bumped other individuals that live here uh because of their knowledge or experience is what I'm trying to say to me and we heard it from Miss Kaine I I believe that's her name that the the original murf committee did allow those individuals be a part of that I know in talking to Bill Perry too that he was part of the original Mur committee he doesn't live here he doesn't but his expertise was used um do we bump people because of that or are these experts that can be brought in to discuss whatever issue they need or do we have a separate category that this person could be like almost like a liaison because of their experience or knowledge that's just what bothers me because it's a town committee I think does that clear it up for you or yeah I I I mean I guess what I see is every council is going to be different right when they they appoint people and they're going to have different criteria my who I choose to vote for on a committee might be different than what you choose to vote for and I agree to that but but I like what Karen's saying about if you property owner you live on the island you should get preferential treatment to be on the committee but we didn't do that but we can't and that's what I'm trying to advocate for you don't have any any push back for me on that I I think it's important if you if you live on the island and you just because you don't have experience in any specific subject doesn't necessarily mean you can't learn it right and I agree you have any issues with that Scott no I I see your question thank you I I think we should just keep still 33931 yeah I think that's no it's in there yeah okay so I need a little clarification so some of these um some of these CR criteria is really um very important to Amy because when she gets an application she's going to say does it can she check one of these boxes but then at that point all the names get brought to you if she's able to check the box and then at that point then you could say preference and then maybe in your decisionmaking process you just kind of put these at the top and these at the bottom because these have the addresses in Fort Meers Beach and these don't would that work I think it makes sense to me how you list them out on the the ballot is residence would I'll do it however you guys tell me to do it I just usually I put them on in just alphabetical order so there's no I put this one above that person or anything like that so but we can sure put resident Island residents First 33931 Property Owners however you want me to to sort them I can I think for just for Sunshine clarification so we don't have to deal with this again that makes the most sense and it's residence 33931 Property Owners others right I don't necessarily need property owner I think it's just 33931 or an island resident well there's Property Owners yeah Property Owners is one of your criteria yeah voter because again people are displaced and or somebody has a business it's or it's not and it's or okay okay um so we'll see um I think it's going to require a little tweaking on the language in your code so you'll see it again at first reading and then second reading um next year this got to be the most discussed back and forth really but it's important it it is all right is that it yes that is it thank you so much uh agenda management Scott you got anything yeah I'd like to see if there's a flavor to look at a past ordinance uh it's ordinance 1715 it uh outlawed uh medical marijuana distribution facilities on the beach um I think it at the time it was almost as crazy as outlawing tattoo par parlors back in the 70s I think you know times have changed you go down to Key West you see these shiny new buildings with with the line out the door so it's an economic engine now do do we want a couple are we okay with a couple on the island or a bunch or do we just still don't want any um but I want to see if anybody else would like to revisit this ordinance Karen just going down the line I know thank you um you know I know medical marijuana is legal um people give prescriptions for it um I you know with the right documentation and that kind of thing what what I don't want to see is a um a food truck if you will or a mobile I didn't say anything about we know I you know I don't want to see a mobile medical marijuana if they want to invest in the community and do it right and go through the proper licensing and everything or permitting I have no problem with that I don't want to see mobile just pulling up and having a spot Jim I'm always willing to discuss anything of reason and I'd certainly be okay with putting it on the calendar for discussion you only need two right put down there we continue Down In fairness I think we should fairness um I don't know I I I understand and appreciate where coun Woodson came from on this because of the Uproar of what happened in Time Square with the mobile um I I don't know what the appetite is out there for that uh and I don't know what the appetite uh because of the uh the Constitutional Amendment that went down to defeat as well so um the appetite generally gets stronger when that was a soft I know I was waiting for somebody else somebody has to set them up occasionally and that's probably why he was interested in hoers he was interested in hooers earlier when they're coming back has to do leg time uh I'm okay with discussing it yeah yeah I I'm open to discuss anything and I'm sure once it gets out that we're going to be discussing it we'll we'll find out one way or another what the public feels about it but yeah it's fine put it out there oh I have no doubt I have no doubt um all right what else you got that's it thank you so I want to talk about meeting decorum with the meeting coming up on Monday that I think is once again going to be um well visited and I think that there is a process I think there is a decorum I think there's a um way that you know we have public comment you're allowed your three minutes of public comment you are not allowed to Heckle you are not allowed to have conversations in the back and if you continue to do that you should not be in the meeting I think clapping needs to be a part of that as well clapping that should not be that is not part part of um a town hall meeting a formal meeting I just think um we need to set the boundaries at the beginning of the meeting and tell people if you cannot abide by these rules you will be removed from the meeting end of story I think it's disrespectful to our speakers to our presenters it's disrespectful to other people that are sitting in the audience and I think if people want to act like that they they can act all they want but they're not going to act like that in here my opinion so what is it you would like to put on agenda management oh we're on that oh that was just my opinion of something I wouldn't to discuss but I do have what is the second opinion on water project that was for today but I don't see anything on it I had a question on that one what I don't know it says 12124 mnp second opinion on water project so the mayor had asked uh several times to get an independent contractor in here to take a look at our tier one project that was drafted by a different group of people um and as the moment we've reached out to five different contractors and none want to go on record or be engaged to look over the work of another one we still pursuing that's that's interesting y that is interesting you keep working at it we will yes sir anything else number one on the list no okay I would like to go back to my uh meeting requests for Monday but not during agenda management I guess no your point is well taken I just wanted to make sure there was nothing you wanted to add to the agenda no not time Jim yeah the only thing that comes to mind is and we're seeing the magnitude of the project and I I think in a very positive way of the beach re nourishment project which is obviously ongoing I think and I I would yield to the town manager on this either at the M&P Andor at a upcoming town meeting preferably not Monday because we have a pretty long agenda but it would be great to have Mike pfff back every time he comes I learn something and he's uh if he just give us update and let people ask questions I think it's very beneficial to the public because things are coming people's way and I just think the more information we have about when and how and what impact it has okay it's always beneficial yes and he can be obviously with Chad but I just think Mike has a unique sort of neutral uh great respect for Chad but he Mike PF has a an engineering Coastal Engineering background that is very helpful uh given what we're what we're experience exping that's all I've got John nothing um just a couple of things potentially want to add we've all gotten an email I believe all of us have gotten from the a resident on the south end concerned with the pier and the pilings um about potentially removing them or putting them back or are we going to go down there um I'd like to have it added for discussion if you guys I know you're working on trying to get numbers and feasibility and that it would be nice to bring that back to be able to discuss that will if everybody's Mr yes sir and having having a my aunt jeie painted a a portrait of those pilings that was hanging in our kitchen prean and uh those pilings are are are are an interesting part of the history on the south end and and I I appreciate you bringing it up today I guess my question would be and this maybe relates to the Mike PFF question will the M&P happen in time for prior to Beacher nourishment hitting the pilings I guess mhm in other words I we may not it are the the impact of what's coming with renourishment may happen before the next MMP meeting well but Chad had sent a note at 8:30 this morning because I asked Chad about this um and he said he spoke with the coastal engineer and surveyor they if there's no objections from Town Council we can shift the template such that the pilings are not impacted oh I didn't see that I didn't see that either so that's was 8:30 this morning you said if anyone has any issues please let uh Mr Andy know and we'll address accordingly okay sounds like we don't need to worry about that right I not see that yeah so it came at 8:30 8:36 forgot something um I just wanted to add I got two more things okay no I just forgot the first one we'll stay on top of the okay no that's all right the other one is is is based on the discussion today with R2 P2 do we want to put something on a future to have staff come back about town or Time Square and our portion of it in uh you know see whatever I was I was going to say we we need to get this CRA going yeah I think that's Tak a a an answer maybe not the answer but it's an answer to do the C yeah well I think we should for we need to look at every option we can for the next uh M&P I think we need to dive deeper in the CRA okay inste of just talking about's no I agree but I think the Time Square is the main need to be separate issues I don't know but well you know other thing we can talk about is we have different multiple cras that was discussions that were had I think that makes the most sense and I and I have already talked to well majority of the County Commissioners would be in favor of the discussion they did suggest looking at what they did with Bonita and their TI how they set it up as a a little bit different I don't know if that was a strong suggestion or if it was but they did direct us to look at that at least one of the Commissioners did and then I can't they've also recommended looking at what the city of Fort Meers did and I reached out to Mayor Kevin Anderson and he has made available his town manager and staff for us to to visit that as well yeah he's also given a plan you can get the plan yes from him if you want it and I can't remember what the other one was um oh the other one was um at the at the meeting I had brought up discussion about um having a a conversation with one of the developers that's coming before us had an idea about our Time Square property or town hall property but how can we and I'm sure it's been done in the past Judith you probably would know more about this where municipalities have a land that they own that they could entice developers to come in to do a public private partnership y to get some of the things that are important as far as retail that's affordable for the small businesses or the essential Services I'd like to have that added to management agenda to discuss or bring forward Ward some recommendations of what have been done in other areas and how the town could do it we have a piece of property that that we own that's significant size that we could potentially do something really good with but it'd be nice to have a discussion about it if there's no objection I like it that's a good idea actually okay that's all I have I think particular I just going to say that's particularly preent given the fact that the fire department has decided to take the Frontage of their property because originally that was going to be they were going to sell that and have that be retail and so that makes this concept even more appropriate yeah good timing well with I don't know if it's for sale or not but the old chap by the Sea next to it it could potentially be something that could work together it will be for right okay that's all I had any you got something yeah we you're ready I'm I'm done okay good uh thank uh we received um the legislative platform from Far Lega cities I just got this this morning so I'll be Distributing that also the um that's not true I gave it to you yesterday did you but I just got it disappoint sorry I don't always open my mail I try then that's not going to look good on your next review is it thank you so the Florida house has released the new Appropriations Project funding request form for the 25 uh legislative session we'll be talking more about our legislative priorities and things like that going forward so I'll get with you individually we need to kind of probably have some meetings in the next couple weeks to make sure we get everything prioritized and moving forward in that direction there was some comments yesterday in the political article they have a Florida Daily that they put out that the leadership in the the legislature is going to be a lot stingier going forward and we really need to prioritize versus put 20 projects in there and we've been good at that correct we've been successful but our success might not bode well in the future for but we'll we'll work on that it mayor we have to have that ready before the delegation meeting I would assume when's the delegation meeting I don't remember off the top of my head but anyway we should have that done meeting January what 6th January 6th the luncheon you're talking no no no the where the delegation is down here and every municipality goes up before and it kind of let you know what our priorities are essentially what he's talking about yeah they want it by Thursday January 9th is what that request is Okay so we've got some work to do in a short amount of time really short amount of time as usual okay that's all mayor Nancy you have anything yes sir okay John move to a journ hey oh not yet can I no withdraw that no there's been no second so um obviously the building has been seven you now again as I told you the proud owners of a 7-Eleven former 7-Eleven convenience store property so you you can direct me on what to do if we want to open up our own slurpie machines or what I say was there one in there we haven't got in yet because the key hasn't come but we're going to uh we're going to um get in there today and see it's empty but um we'll be taking the building down we'll be coming before you really soon about the the parking lot and things we're going to do there so we're really moving forward as quickly as we can on that on that building to get relocated as soon as we can so just little update can you give a everybody's noticing the building as they drive by can you give a painting update is the is the second code already been applied the majority of the second code has been applied I think they took a break today just because of the weather that's coming in later today um and the moisture that's in the air and a little bit of wind but it seems to be um pretty much um T completed with the trim work obviously the elevators our big thing we're working on the elevator uh contractor but the white trim has been painted as well it will be if it's not it will be yes there's most of it has but they yes it it there will be white trim painted but I think they took a little break today because of the weather that's two coats as well for the white as well the white shrim I yeah I'm imagining so yes so that yeah okay because it was all well they painted over blue when they were spraying so they they have to come back so it it will be yes as many as as as it takes um also um Furniture is being put together um all the final touch-ups on the second third floor being handled and then we'll be working really diligently on um subcontracting the the first the first floor so we can get that finished and somebody asked me the other day how many parking spots is on the existing on the existing 24 I believe is the number of 26 and we should add another 50 at least on the other that was the question we are going to have all of our proper parking so 50 additional should be at at least 50 okay right thank you that's all sorry I will second John's motion good any objection we are adjourned at 11:04