call this meeting to order today is Thursday March 7th it is 9:00 a.m. all council members are present Town manager Town attorney town clerk uh we are at 2731 Oak Street the Bay Oaks new facility if you'll please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge of alance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for stands one nation God indivisible with liy and justice for all good thanks our first item for discussion is the FMB draft long-term recovery recovery plan who's leading us off Dan morning good morning Jacob is it ready go okay uh good morning mayor uh council members um staff Town staff um my name is Dan Tomac I am one of the uh contract team members that has been working with uh the town of Fort Mars Beach uh specifically the St um Andy Frankie uh Jason um and Jeff and now Mark and Chad uh probably going back to June of last year uh we've been working with the town and so I'm here just to present we we um pull together a draft uh long-term recovery plan which was part of the scope that uh the FEMA community Assistance was asked to do for the town and the draft plan was submitted uh back in January and so I'm here just to present uh to the town you know about the plan and and really kind of summarize what we've been doing because again we've been working with um working with the town going back to last June um and so there's there's been a lot going on and so um I know this is my first time presenting to the Council on what we've been doing but I'm going try to um I have a short presentation I'm going to try to keep it to 15 20 minutes I know you guys have a lot of other things on your agenda so I will just uh uh again just kind of briefly go through um what we've been what we've been doing um again my name is Dan Tomac I am with the uh FEMA community Assistance team I'm part of the the contract team that is working with FEMA and um uh been working really we we as infa Community assistants have they we've been involved with a number of communities uh around the fort Meers area uh santel uh the city of Fort Meyers um you know of course Fort Meers Beach uh Arcadia uh Hardy County and and Eatonville which is up near Orlando um we've been basically doing you know similar uh projects and similar work for those communities as well so again I I've been focused mostly on Fort Meers Beach and that's what I'll be presenting here today so um who is community or female Community assistants I think many of you have you know have heard of Public Assistance pa um individual assistance through FEMA uh community Assistance is uh it's basically it's a coordination of um different programs and federal uh govern government agencies that have been come that have come together um to try to identify ways to assist communities that have that have gone through a disaster like uh like hurricane Ian um and and find ways to help these communities move forward with their recovery and uh and again so it's it's really kind of a team effort um it's not just FEMA um and and I'll kind of get into the other partners that we have worked with um on this program so we are using the whole Community approach uh you know this is a a diagram of kind of showing that we're pulling in you know the residents the the leaders the staff from the town um uh the different uh uh organizations uh within the community uh could be the Chamber of Commerce could be uh the universities within the area pulling them all together to try to come up with a um kind of a a team approach to address this so that it so that we're getting input um from everyone that's really has a stake in helping the community move forward you know I mentioned uh about the other uh Federal agency or federal groups that are part of this so again FMA Community assistant um that's who I was working with but we we are also working with you know a number of other federal agencies um uh from economic uh development to Health and Human Services um HUD uh the US Army Corps of Engineers uh the US EPA um who will be here tomorrow to talk about some of the projects um they'll be here talking to the town about some of the projects that they have in store um as well as the department of interior so again there's a lot of different agencies that are involved because each of these agencies have programs that could assist the town um in and again helping them with their recovery so the whole point of this uh uh project in this and with Community assistant is trying pull in all these other groups and and seeing how they could potentially um assist the town so Community Assistance we we basically look at identifying the different areas that the town needs assistance we kind of um categorize them in six different um what we call Project themes um from from planning economic recovery infrastructure which I think we'll get to uh is you know is the big thing especially after disaster like hurricane Ian um housing natural and cultural resources and then Health and Social Services so we look at the needs that the community has and and try to put the put those projects or put those needs into one of these six different themes and then be able to go to the other uh resources that we have the other federal agencies to see how can they uh support uh the different projects the town has identified so what has Community citizens been uh doing or been involved with with the town um probably going back to I meant it was probably June I think when we first started having weekly meetings with the town um and uh and kind of discussing what the needs are from the town what are identifying the different projects um we call them the unfunded or unmet needs projects that the town had identified um working through developing this long-term recovery plan which I'll be get to here shortly um uh assisting we've also been involved with assisting with a uh socioeconomic impacts analysis uh which was done to look at you know um we had a an economists kind of look at how um how hurricane Ian impacted the overall economy with uh within the town of Fort Myers Beach and then how things are beginning to move forward um and then lastly uh we or one of the other areas that we've been helping helping the town with is is identifying needs of funding because in the end a lot of the projects they need funding I mean I that that's that's a key thing and so we've been trying to you know look at and again by reaching out it's not so much coming out of the the FEMA pot but it's also reaching out to the other agencies to the EPA to the Army Corps of Engineers um to Department of interior and seeing if they have resources that could assist the town with the different projects that they have going on so uh some some other areas that we been involved with um again uh you know really kind of the big the main focus for what we've been doing is is pulling together this long-term recovery plan um we we did and some of you may have attended the uh the workshops that we had back in September um we had there were two workshops where uh Frankie uh spoke on the short-term projects that the town had uh had work in or had been working on and then uh and then we had uh spoke on the long-term uh recovery projects that that had been identified uh there was also kind of to coincide with those uh workshops there were there was a online survey uh that was that was done and uh we ended up getting 385 respondents uh you know it was it was out for about a month it was online or it was live and uh and again kind of focusing on you know getting input from the the whole purpose of the you know the uh survey was to get input from the community on what did the community see was important for the town to look into what were some of the Visions or what what were some of the goals that the community uh members had and and then and then thirdly uh you know going through some of these these projects the town had identified I mean there was a number of projects that you know will be receiving funding from PA and there and you know I know there the town has received uh some of the grants through the state to help them with some of the projects but then there are still other projects that you know the town had identified but at at that point were we were looking at ways to try to find um funding and and try to move those projects forward there we go um a few other areas we've been involved with the town we again I mentioned earlier we've been having weekly and then it kind of uh went to bi-weekly meetings with the town we've been able to bring in other um other resources we've reached out to uh Florida Gulf Coast University um and brought in faculty members to come in and talk to the town uh and we had a staff from uh FGCU and from uh Naples Botanical Gardens that came in and spoke to uh the town about some of the pro some of the work that they're working on uh with the with Naples in looking at beach restoration um and and so again just was trying to you know trying to bring in um other uh other people from the community and and and talk to the town about um certain things that are going on um again I I mentioned earlier we we did the the uh socioeconomic impacts analysis um on for for the town of Fort Myers Beach uh as a result of Hurricane Ian and and then we were also providing some Gia support early on when we were uh looking at mapping um some of the uh parcels and properties that were that were going on the market so that we can kind of have a uh an overall viewing of what properties were coming on uh um on the market in case the the town was interested in in uh move forward with um uh potential purchases so what is the recovery so getting into the recovery plan um it's basically a document that helps to um summarize a lot of different things that happened due to uh due to a certain impact like like hurricane Ian was we we looked at uh kind of um looking at the damage that happened to the communities uh what are some the gaps and and needs uh you know after a community comes through an event like uh like a hurricane there's a lot of needs that the town has and so we're trying to kind of pull together a listing of those gaps and needs again we we looked at the different projects uh that were needed to address those gaps and uh and then look and then also identifying uh funding sources and partners to you know to try to help the town move forward um you know with some of these projects so what are you know what are some of the uses for this this recovery plan uh it's really to help uh identify priorities you know for the community you know because with all the different projects that are out there um you know there's there's going to be a kind of a a a prioritization of those projects and uh and and kind of sitting down with the town and saying okay um you know infrastructure again very you know a big item for the town what specific infra infrastructure items does did the town identify as priority was it utilities storm water I mean storm water was definitely a big uh item so it's basically kind of going through the different projects and and and prioritizing them uh you know identifying Partners you know I mentioned earlier not not just Federal Partners but even local nonprofits um philanthropy uh you know there's there's a lot of funding that's out there and trying to identify those partners that can help the town um was also part of it uh part of the uh plan and again it's really and finally to uh it's a way to approach um really kind of shortterm medium-term and and long-term uh recovery because again again you know we've had many conversations with a town after an event like Ian the the the town's you know first thing is looking at we need to get ourselves back on our feet and and so and so they're they're really the town's really focused on what needs to be done immediately um but with the with the long-term plan it's like it's it's just kind of step back and say okay where does the town want to be you know 5 years from now you know what are some of the goals and Visions for the town to to be to be more resilient and we hear that word a lot but that's you know I think living in a castal community like Fort Myers Beach um you know resiliency and and try to identify ways to be more resilient is something that's that um you will continue hear to hear more of all right just briefly kind of go through the the plan itself um it's a it's a big plan um not going to go through the whole thing I'm just going to just kind of uh Briefly summarize what it is um and just and have some um you know some photographs or or uh uh posts of areas that or that came out of the plan itself but basically the the the areas that we kind of focus on you know the scope itself we looked at resilience considerations uh for the town some you know what are some things that the town uh could do in bringing in resiliency as it looks to uh the recovery process uh a community overview kind of a little bit of the a history of the Town how it's developed to where it's at uh today and and then the recovery projects and and again what the projects are are are those unfunded projects that the town had identified and looking at trying to prioritize them uh you know based on what the town felt um with the town and and then even you know pulling in input from the community as well and that's kind of where we you know we looked at we looked at the survey uh we looked at the feedback that we got from the community during those workshops back in September and trying to um again pull together the overall prioritization of the projects themselves uh some of the thing and I mentioned earlier where we there was those uh the the six themes you know the infrastructure uh Community planning uh economic recovery housing Health and Social Services and natural and cultural resources and again what we did is we tried to we looked at the projects that the town had identified and then rolled them into one of these six categories or six themes and again why is that because then when we look at funding purposes we say okay well the projects uh that were under say infrastructure well what are you know what are the um what are the partners that we could reach out to for infrastructure where could be the core of engineers do um uh the state uh d uh there's a lot you know a lot of different partners out there that we can re that we can reach out to and to look at those uh those particular projects um and then what we did is the the uh the third column or or the column on the right we we listed out we kind of describ some of the projects that were identified the one I have here is storm water uh storm water capacity and reliabil reliability improvements uh was one again one of the projects that was identified and so we kind of do a description of the projects we look at the approximate you know costs do does the town need to do some initial uh feasibility study uh prior to to that and then what are some of the potential funding uh sources uh that the town could um you know could look into for for that particular project uh a few other areas that were included within the plan we we also looked at uh the social vulnerability index and environmental justice um I think you know what you see a lot especially in Grants uh different grants that are out there is they want to know about the environmental justice impacts um and so we wanted to have some information within this recovery plan that uh the town could use as a resource um to pull from you know in in being able to apply say apply for Grants and other funding opportunities uh and then lastly we did summarize uh the workshops that were done back in September we pulled together the results um you know there's a lot of from the online survey we kind of did did a lot of pie chart you'll see in the in the uh plan there's a lot of pie charts that kind of um graph out all of the the results that came from the um came from the um online survey um another part that was submitted in addition to it's it's it was a separate document but it's still part of the the um the recovery plan what we call the the project planning workbook it basically an Excel it basically a large Excel file um that had multiple tabs and listed all of the the projects that the town um had identified um the ranking process that uh the town went through and identifying the priority for those different projects um we had other tabs in there on uh that talked about the uh Community demographics funding uh per we had had a a section in there on permitting not we didn't go to say okay for this particular project here are the permits that you will need it's more of a kind of a resource that the town could look to to see what potential permits may be needed or that they would have to look into for because each each Project's going to require different uh per permitting and so this was just to kind of give an idea of what potential um you know local state federal uh permitting um areas that would need to be considered uh again strategic Partners who are the different partners out there that help with this and then the prioritization uh criteria that went into um kind of ranking or or prioritizing the projects that the town had identified um part parnerships you know mentioned about Partnerships you know in addition to the work we've been doing um the EPA has a program what they call R2 P2 which is the recovery and resilience resiliency partnership projects um and Drew from the EPA will be here tomorrow I mentioned talk to the town staff about these projects that are listed here and some of the uh some of the ways that the town or not sorry that the EPA is going to be able to assist the town in some of the um uh planning uh identifying the planning that will go or that can go into the projects that are listed everything from Time Square uh storm water um uh so beach beach land Acquisitions the um and then biking walking and paddle Trail connectivity um the US Department of interior has been involved and they've been I know they've been reaching out to different groups around here they I know they re recently recently reached out to the Estero Island Historical Society to look at an idea to kind of develop like a cultural tourism project I know I think um uh the historical society was looking into that um and uh and so um our contact with the DUI was had been talking to them to see if there if there could be some teaming opport to bring in the doi to assist and then lastly is the southeast rural community Assistance project or cir cap um cir cap uh is a group uh that's kind of based in uh it started out in Virginia but it has expanded into I think most States within the southeast there is there is a an office of cir cap up in Gainesville but uh we've been we've been in contact with them because again they they have some uh mean to assist with different areas from providing GIS Services um helping with different vulnerability assessments you know depending on the um uh the extent of it and then and then uh also the uh lead service line inventory was something that is that's something that all the communities within the state will need to pull together by October and that is something that they um are able to help um uh different communities and and I I know that they're going to be I think assisting with some of the other communities that FEMA uh Community Systems has been working with as well uh and then lastly next steps so what's next so we we we wrapped up or we submitted the draft um recovery plan we will be finalizing that uh based on comments uh from the town and we will submit that in the end this is a it's a it's a Town's document um it's not going to be it's not going to be a FEMA I we we helped prepare it but it was prepared for the town so it will be the town can can expand on it as as they as they you know see fit but but again the the whole purpose of these recovery plans was to um develop the plans for the towns um but yeah so what's next so we we'll we'll wrap up the plan there's also some implementation projects that uh FEMA community Assistance is looking to assist with uh one is the the storm water capacity and reliability analysis uh I know that was that was a big project or a big need that was identified and so we're looking at doing like a feasibility study uh to look at the storm water capacity and then also uh look at and then pull into that the the canals as part of that U feasibility um and then some other projects again these aren't these aren't definitely they're just potential projects that that we're looking into um assisting uh one is is or second one is also doing a water systems capacity study and then the third one is doing a solar power uh feasibility study um again a lot of the you know actually well all three of these are really just feasibility studies but it would be something that um that we could do to help the town kind of move forward with some of these areas that they had identified was um was of of interest and that is it I want to thank you for the invitation for coming out today to uh to present to you on um I know what we've been doing again we've been uh busy with the town um again going back to June of last year and and again we're wrapping up the recovery plan but now moving into uh assisting the town with some of these implementation projects and with that I will open up for questions questions for Dan B mayor I just just briefly just wanted to get a takeaway a lot of public watches our hearings and obviously the council's been wrestling with a lot of the issues that you addressed today in a comprehensive sense but for those who are listening for example if there if there was a reporter sitting in the front room of the of of of the council meeting today what's the takeaway was did you did you find any Revelation any Black Swan moment any any sort of unique Insight that was that that we have not seen or that the town was not aware of in other words what's the news I mean it's great to have a great plan like this but was there anything that you discovered that was really interesting or unique or or insightful that you want to share that was sort of I hate to use the word breaking news but just something that was interesting or out of the ordinary that you would want to highlight um well I mean for me it's looking at the looking at the projects that the town had identified but then more so looking at the different funding opportunities that that are out there to to help the town and um and it's you know it may not be funding opportunities that's going to fund the entire project but if there's something that um a certain partner whether it's EPA or cira or or or the USDA um if they have you know Grant op opportunities that are out there to help um help with these projects and help move them forward um that was you know for me that was um really it was really interesting for me to kind of kind of see that to see how these outside eight uh you know whether it's Federal Partners or you know um nonprofits or or other groups that are out there how they can assist the town with you know and again I mean all these different project s that were identified are you know projects that the town sees as something that they need they would like to have done to be able to move forward you know Post in but was there a specific project you said aha this is one that I know we can get funding for this is one that's a home run you've got to do it was there anything that just got you excited or out of the ordinary or um well I think um for me it was the I mean it was good you know I know the the the Town re uh received the funding from the state to do the storm water and to do the store well to to assist with the storm water project and and hopefully with uh FEMA Community assistant's help we'll be able to do the feasibility study to look at the the storm water capacity so that I think that was I think really big because you know talking to Frankie and and Andy and others in the town that that you know especially storm water is was is a big concern for for the town and so being able to see ways that the town can find um you know different sources for funding to help move that project you know that particular project forward was um was really neat to see okay thank you very much John any questions no but I did like the fact that he used the University of w caboi in his slide presentation Karen I'm good thank you yeah so most of these projects are were more 5 to 10 years and most of them are around $10 million give or take what would you think what would be your recommendation for us as a town to prioritize one two or three and I know Jim kind of brought it up um let's say there was no funding what what projects would be would you think from doing this would be our most critical to get to to focus on in the next year or two to get started or do you think that we should do all these well I think you know looking at the list that was developed you will see that a vast majority of the projects relate to infrastructure right H and that's and so I think that is and and seeing you know you know again through our conversations with the town and hearing you know what the town has in priority that I think is where you know a lot of the resources that the town is interested in looking for funding you know other outside funding to try to help move those infrastructure projects forward not saying that the other ones are are important but that I me when you again I would say what 90% of the projects on that list are are infrastructure related right um but again and but again that's where what's really interesting is in working with these other agencies like the EPA so you know there's you know there's the um um you know the beach restoration work um and and if there's you know if there's opportunities to whether it's through through EPA or through the Army Corps of Engineers uh to try to you know move that forward or or or from the state you know to be able to move that forward um so even though that may not fall under infrastructure I mean it's still a very important project you know for the town is is M you know being able to um restore the beaches and and um you know you know get them back to the conditions that they were so um so again I see infrastructure being being a big item but again you know working with these other partners to see okay well um maybe uh you know maybe the um uh the the work with the Historical Society m not be a high priority but if it's something that can get done by working with the uh the assistance with Department of interior or whatnot again if if something that can be done with with assistance from other um team members then that's I think that was that was really kind of a neat um for me kind of a neat thing to see is is how all these other uh groups out there can assist um but but again back to your you know question of you know what's what's a priority what would be a priority for the town um again we just looking at the number based on the number of uh you know infrastructure related projects that seems to be I mean that was again that was that was a list the town had pulled together and and when when I looked at that list and saw how many were infrastructure you know the first thing to me was okay that's obviously a really important uh you know area that they want that they that they need help with so okay thank you Dan Dan I yes sir on behalf of the staff Mr Mayor I'd like to uh thank Daniel and his team um they tirelessly came here every week um we sat through a lot of meetings we debated a lot of issues um at the end of the day I think it was very worthwhile for staff and uh FEA to participate in this and i' wholeheartedly want to give our thanks you stole my thunder Frankie I was going to do the same thing no that's all right no thanks Dan for all your hard work and and a nice presentation you had there and and the plan you put together I think working with the staff has really shown that a lot of hard work went into it and I've been talking with these guys throughout the whole time every although I wasn't in all your meetings I I wasn't a few and it it was a very daunting very detailed task orientated meeting so uh thank you for all your hard work okay all right thank you y any other questions I don't think so all right thank St thank you our next discussion is the LDC comp plan discussion regarding the Land Development code update proposal Andy yeah mayor thank you so much um Council um Sarah presented this to me back in February and I wanted to get it before you guys today because there obviously there's been some discussion about reviewing the Land Development code and if you look at the scope of work and it goes into you know pretty much details everything that that axess would do for us and and reviewing that and of course there's there's there's uh public meetings that will be held there's um um you get back to that spot um hearings five workshops there's hearings you know so it's very involved and I think we're at a point um where you know staff I would encourage you to to seriously consider this the cost um is not as much as it could be in other areas i' be $99,450 and that comes out of the um the building fund so there's there's a you know a dedicated source of of of money there for that so uh Sarah's not here we could call her if we need to but I don't know if Frankie has anything to offer what kind of time frame were they thinking it would take to to get through this I know they've been working on it for quite a while they have and I think that um to be totally honest with you I can't give you a definite answer on that um I know that they've made a lot of progress and a lot of suggestive work um I don't think it would take long to wrap it up I mean we're talking within 6 months possibly okay so is this 999,000 in addition to all the work that's already been done or how does that play out or is it 999,000 total it it from what I can tell it's in addition to what's been done but it it it could already have be the fact that there's other work that's already been done that filters into this as well uh not having been here the entire time they've been probably discussing this yeah these discussions I mean they've been going back Scott can probably test to it too for through the LPA I mean for years so I got to believe they they understand you know the things that needed now just implementing it I have a question will so this LDC change this is going to be based on the comp plan once we get our comp plan revisions done then they're going to work on the LDC yes sir that's my understanding yes sir okay so just so people watching understand and it's going to take a couple more months for us to get that comprehensive plan done then they work on the LDC then it goes to the state so overall great we're we're in this process for a couple years but we're still looking at another year to everything gets codified is that correct correct okay any other questions so this is how how much are we talking about 9,470 and is this for s firm is it for 's firm I'm sorry yes 99470 is for AIS for Sarah's firm so but none of this goes to Eddie's firm who we've already had a contractual relationship with correct this is just for Access doing the work okay I my understanding Jim this is for the LDC portion the comp plan I didn't know how much Eddie I just didn't want to continue to put money into Eddie's firm uh given I'm not going to say but I just I I'm glad it's going to Sarah firm we understand all right John you have any questions I do not than you just looking for direction from us to move forward with this yes sort of included on the next uh meeting council meeting consent with me as well you guys all right with it yes yeah go go ahead thank you our next item is a proposed ordinance expedited variance review Nancy um I don't know if it's worth it to read the title to it or not not I mean this is not a public hearing on it but um the background of this is at your last meeting you asked us to try to come up with a way that could expedite um certain reviews that were going before the local planning agency primarily for variances and um variances in situations where the vote by the uh local planning agency was unanimous um and why would there be a need for an additional meeting however there was discussion that said well maybe some things issues came up at the local planning agency hearing that maybe did Merit additional review um and so what we did was we took your uh code we looked at your code and it looks like um it's section 34- 232 that talks about the required hearings for various um Land Development um approvals um we added language regarding um um owner initiated requests for variances so I I would like to just read that language um owner initiated requests for variances that are unanimously approved by the local planning agency and there is no request for an additional public hearing before the Town Council made by anyone that is received by the town clerk work within 10 calendar days after the date of the local planning agency decision excluding holidays only require one public hearing before the local planning agency and the local planning agency decision is final agency action that those are key words final agency action that is basically their ticket uh to go to court to uh challenge any type of um final approval and the language continues other owner initiated requests for variances require public hearings first by the local planning agency and then by the Town Council so we were very narrow and specific as to what our Direction was if I could if I could just set the table on this just a bit a little bit Nancy uh thank you for your efforts uh I I heard a little colloquy at the last LPA meeting between the chair and uh I think it was Patrick as and the chair was inquiring as to what we were doing here and and I think Patrick said this is to make our meetings go faster that is a that is a that is a byproduct of what we're doing here but what I I'm trying to accomplish and have been trying for a number of years now is to create a dynamic where for example at the last council meeting on Monday we had two hearings after a extremely long hearing on an elevated pool where one of the one of our residents had to sit here for a good two hours as we all did uh to to and enjoy the the the the the discussion of the elevated pool uh but two hours she had to spend for come before us after she already received a unanimous uh vote from the LPA on her uh because her pool equipment was put on the wrong side of her pool the LPA very appropriately handled that but she had to wait two hours to get have her case be heard second uh case we heard was that we actually had the the architect uh sat here for the initial hearing again two hours land planner who they'd hired sat here for two hours uh this is a this is a cumbersome process there was no issues when these issues came before the council so this is not only to expedite our meetings but also to make it easier for the residents uh just to procedurally come before the council when they need some assistance and again it's not it's not meant to in any way uh uh inhibit anyone who's remonstrating in any way there's and that's that's why I think this is the language is very clever the way you've did it Nancy that so anyone has the opportunity to call for hearing not just members of the council but anyone from the public because sometimes the LPA will will draw attention to an issue that that that may sail through but later people realize oh my goodness I had no idea this was going on then they want to to they want to have have their voice be heard they'll have that opportunity I had just a couple questions uh in your language on on page 92 on on the bottom of the page there's Item B owner initiated requests owner initiated request for resoning and then you strike the word variances and I was curious why you did that and then uh and and then on the next page you have have for the language you just read you said owner initiated request for variances and I did you mean to say rezonings or no um so the answer to your first question was um the first part of the paragraph B talks about owner initiated requests for resoning special exceptions and developments and then the sentence continues to say that there is uh one public hearing be before the planning local planning a agency and then one public hearing before the Town Council when you go to um the the added language this is specific for variances and that specific language says possibly one got there's no objection so rezonings would not be covered by this Clause correct correct okay and then for example just we obviously have some huge projects coming up on in the form of a commercial plan development those would not be obviously covered by this as well correct correct this is is limited only to variances and when you say other owner initiated request for variances requires public hearings first by the local planning agency and then by the Town Council could you give a couple examples of what those might be that is going to be a situation where there is an objection that is raised okay so that's just clarifying the the the items that would be objected to wanting and requesting my my question to you is at the LPA here you you you you have a very uh regimented appropriately regimented process where you actually uh have a script could we have this language built into the script so when in other words when a when a when a variance passes an owner initiated variance passes unanimously from the LPA could that be part of the script so that anybody who's watching or present realizes they have the the opportunity to go and request yes um in fact I believe on the agenda itself there is uh a notation regarding appeals and we can put it in there as well as the announcement yeah I think it'd be important to announce it at the meeting that way if anybody's watching and says oh my goodness I I had no idea this was going on and they'll have the ability to call the Town Clerk and and then request for that from a policy perspective is the 10day period sufficient for you I think it I think it I think that works okay should should it be 10 business days Jim uh it says 10 calendar days calendar calendar excluding holidays I could go either way Scott whatever you think I think I'd prefer business just because it's business yeah actually yeah because the staff is here that's fine to you know if it's a three-day weekend or something then the other question I had is with that that last line that Jim was referring to other owner initiated would it make more sense to change that wording to be um if there's been a request for additional just I think it sounds confusing when you say other it is confusing other but I think if you're saying that that line refers specifically to um I one use word challenge but someone wants to to have another hearing we could say if no uh request is made or something like that or if a request is made I'm sorry yes if an owner if a request is made for owner initiated um variance something along those lines and this I know it says owner initiated but this is strictly for residential not commercial I don't think that that um distinction is made so it's it is owner so it's owner so it could be commercial either side of things okay Johnny got any I'm good any other questions for Nancy no I think the next step would be uh with council's direction is to go ahead and start taking this to the LPA and see how they feel about it and then it would come back to you in the form of an ordinance change which would be two public hearings to actually adopt it I and I have to say I'm not the clever one it's Becky she came up with the language so I wanted to recognize that well I I appreciate your efforts I think it's excellent work and I think this will really help us it's not going to solve all the world's problems but it anything we can do to expedite it not only for the council but more importantly for our residents I think is a positive step forward yeah I think you I don't want to speak out of line but I think you got full Council support to move forward with okay we will do it Sor I just have a question though on going back to what Jim was saying about you know we had this really really long hearing for 2 hours and then these other people had to wait is there a way and I guess it's like trying to read the crystal ball like how long these things are going to take but you know is there a way to do to look at the order of things knowing that some are going to take longer than others and some are just going to go right through so that we don't have to run into that could you maybe prioritize the the unanimous votes from the LPA well I think a lot of times they when it when you have a big hearing like we had they have more attorneys they have more people involved so there's you know 80% of the room is there for that so you know it's going to take longer but I think those you know I I think they usually do those big ones first because there's so many people involved and I guess the theory is you're not letting them wait for the other ones I I don't I don't know it's it's hard to but I think doing this I think you're going to get the ones that are you know layups or slam dunks I think you're going to get those off of our agendas so there's not don't have so we don't have those I'm going try it we try it yeah but then I think if the ones that do come through because there someone maybe does challenge or want to have additional public hearings is it possible to rank or put them in order of if it was unanimous vote so using those from Monday in that case the ones would have been at the top that yes um so I think some of that is dependent on the timing of getting the agenda out and not knowing you know within that 10day period however you do have the option at the begin of your meeting on um setting the agenda you can switch the order at that point we would know who who is physically present and maybe expedited you kind of get you know by the emails and the phone calls you kind of get an idea what's going to be what's going to take longer so I think you know we leave it up to ourselves to figure that out I think that might be the most efficient way works for me okay I have my direction thank you you got it our next item our final item is uh reviewing ordinance 2305 temporary housing temporary governmental use facilities in a specified zoning districts who wants to start this one I can start it okay go ahead so there was discussion at the last meeting um some concerns raised about a uh commercial use that was transpiring at Town Square um and so there was a look at the ordinance that was adopted back in March of 2023 um looking specifically at the language in it and uh it was identified that there was ambiguity and some confusion and so this item was brought back to you for further discussion and Direction um as far as perhaps the need to clarify um what is in what was previously approved um by Council yeah yeah I think there was you know we went back and forth there were some things and I think Jim you have the same recollection I do that and maybe Karen and John do as well that not everything that was discussed seemed to make its way into the ordinance um and it made it kind of a little messy so how do you how do we clean it up you know again I said it on Monday I think the my recollection of the initial conversation was the intent was to allow uh commercial land owners to operate a commercial business now there was talk about first right of refusal to the business that was there because we wanted the businesses that were on the island back uh to give them a space obviously some did come back some did not uh and I think it it has kind of morphed into you know there's still commercial businesses being operated on these commercial properties but it's seems to have sparked a is that the way we want to go is that um the direction that the town wants is to just let anybody come and set up shop on any commercial um I I don't know that that was the intent but watching Monday's meeting again there was some things that you know I guess if if I have a a property that was a t-shirt shop and that said t-shirt shop doesn't want to come back but now maybe a shoe store does do we have really an issue with you know something like that a similar use being used or do we just want to go down the road if it is what is I don't I don't I kind of know where I stand on that but I'd like to hear from everyone else what they think as far as uh we can get down the road to time frames and that but I think starting with what use is on the property and and what commercial versus residential and go down that road first if that makes any sense to anyone do you think we should handle residential first that I think that's the lwh hanging fruit yeah I I agree you know I I think think the intent for that was to allow those that were you know time to get through and we originally I believe it was 6 months and we would review it every six months with a up to 18 months and then a chance to potentially extend it depending on where we were at right you know right up the storm we didn't know we didn't know and and you know we hadn't determined how much damage there was yet there there was so many unknowns then fast forward June and July they passed Senate Bill 250 which superseded the intent and what we had said with in regards to the commercial or to the residential basically saying they've got 36 months to to figure it out um I think even 19 months from now there might be some people that I guess what I don't want to do is I don't want someone that has a permit in they're waiting for their pilings to come in at 36 months because they just got their design done to say oh it's been 30 you know it's it's been 36 months you got to get your trailer off your property you know that's I don't think that's the intent or that's the will of the of anyone um so how do we put that in wording to be able to I I think it's important that they have to at least have a process started I think after 36 months residentially if you haven't made any steps forward or had any conversation with the town or did anything that's a different story than someone that's trying to elevate their house or they're trying to because there's people waiting to elevate their house but they can't do anything until they get the okay from the federal government to do it so that but most of the the most of the people that lift the house having gone through this there's a year wait right now exct so if if you you know if you sign up in six months you're you're probably going to be past that 36 months right but but I think we all agree that if if people haven't started the process haven't come to the town and say hey this is what I want to do at least at least had a introductory meeting with Frankie's team and and hey this is our plans what are next steps but it I think we want to eliminate just the people that aren't doing anything right and you know three years is plenty of time I'm sorry but you got to have a plan you may not you know there and I think it it'll it'll add some certainty to the market where they know they have to get moving you know I I I think you you just don't give them a hammock you've got to give him a trampoline to to bounce up and do something yeah it's definitely not a fun thing to have to do but at some point you have to do it just like go ahead Frankie I was just going to interject something Mr Mayor we had a phone call late yesterday afternoon with uh our representativ of Title Basin uh who are putting together a state document for mitigation um and these this revolves around the people that are elevating to ear in that elevation program um that's still in the stage of discussion so these people earnestly signed up for these things right after Ian and here we are 18 months to year e edict and uh the they're still discussing how the path to move forward um so there hasn't been any final determination for these people's World basically uh it's still in Bea's or the state's hands to pass judgment on clarifying language between the two um so to your point uh how do you slam the door um are the people that are waiting in this case Frank are people that are waiting are they still coming in to apply for their permit they're waiting that stopped as of May 31st last year um but what we do have finally we we were able to get uh the names and addresses potentially not yet um released from FEMA of those people that are in that mitigation program so we can reach out as a town and start working with them to see what they will need from the town um I think that that's more important to us as as staff uh knowing that these places uh that they have made contact they may not be on the island in a trailer they may not be in the area but if we can reach out and let let them know that hey we we're we're understanding that they're in this program and we can have that two lane of communication I think that'll go to what uh councilman Scott said earlier as well yeah and we're not making people you have to look at it this is just about trailers on the property it's it's not you have to make a decision to do something on your property you you know you have that choice to leave it a vacant or sell it but it's we're just talking about the trailers exactly so it's I I think we we need to and I think you just by the the trailer permits you can your staff can narrow it down to see where they are and maybe even reach out and say Hey you know we're going to have a a a drop dead date or whatever and what do you have plan do you need help what can we do and then start that conversation now and we we've given them 18 months to to help them come to a decision I think that and there there still requiring a renewal every 6 months right maybe on that renewal get something out right away but then also a reminder when they come in for their renewal they get a letter that says just so that you know this is you know September 28th 20125 is is the deadline to to make some progress whether you know you we have the proof that they're in a mitigation program and that for hopefully it has started by then but if it hasn't we know that that they're trying to do something it's not them holding up the issue correct sir and and as far as the the mitigation program it's just going to be a small handful it's not any big number that we're talking about um so that that can be easily traced track down but to your point yes we will definitely get something going and so I just have one question though like we said you know make a decision to build or sell or whatever so they've they've reached the deadline date and now they've decided to put their property up for sale do they still keep their trailer on their property till it sells no no good all right that's what I want to know because there could be all kinds of yeah Shenanigans with that um so that dead line and unless you are rebuilding or have something in process whatever you're off and if you sell you're off the lot Nancy it looks like you're taking a lot of notes are you catching all this I am am um go ahead I just goingon to ask Nancy uh I think this is a very good discussion but Nancy is there a way to codify this oh absolutely you're going to be putting that into your ordinance this will come back to you with an ordinance change but what's the what's the language though are we are we saying I obviously we've got the elevation issue that's an easy one to to discern but there are people with insurance contractor issues supply chain issues do they need to somehow demonstrate that they're working in good faith I mean what's the language that you put in how do you yes I think I would start maybe with extenuating circumstances um and then go from there and I think your your uh code already does give some examples um I guess it's on page four of the ordinance it says the town manager may consider whether the applicant has had difficulties in completing insurance claims obtaining an architect engineer obtaining construction materials obtaining a contractor and if relevant whether they have had difficulty in obtaining grants or loans to assist in repair I think those are good examples of what extenuating circumstances might be but you know they could also be caught up in litigation too I just want to make sure that the town manager and staff have the ability to serve as that safety valve for those folks who are truly hurting and trying but they're hurting and they got for a variety of challenges so I think that's great yeah I think the the intent here is to to weed out those that are really not don't want to do anything you know in a hammock in a h in a hammock I like that analogy yeah no more hammocks no more hammocks is there anything else that PE anyone wants to add to the residentials now I've heard that there is talk of potentially extending Senate Bill 250 so far it hasn't come up but in that case we'd be right back here in the same situation if they were to extend it that was that was talked several months ago but it seems to have died down well do we put something in there that if in accordance with state law yeah something in accordance with state law so if if they extended a year then yep I'd be fine with that if that I mean there's nothing we can do with yeah so we just cover ourselves with it I think the basis here is that we really want to urge people to come in and talk to staff and and the more you let staff know where you're at the easier it is for them to help you I want to say defend but make people understand if they do send in emails or they do call we can we can say hey Andy Frankie but what's going on with this property and they can say d d here you go this is why and then we can let people know that maybe have an issue with why there might still be a trailer there okay that's let's get to commercial this the fun one who wants to start this one I I guess I I'd like to just hear from everyone up here that you know their thoughts we all were at the meeting on Monday we we heard what the chair Anita said and we we heard kind of the back and forth so I I guess I just getting everybody's two cents to help kind of start the conversation to see where we end up might might be beneficial you want to start oh you looking at me well you look like you're ready to go so well I think there there there two issues um number one it's it's the you know the businesses like the beach bar that you know own the property they're committed to building back um but then you've got a subsection of of people like moms and mojos that are at the mercy of the owner so I I think it's it's pretty easy for you know the whale and Beach Bar and and establishments like that that H have put their business back they're they're in the process of of building then then you've got this subset of of businesses and you've got the the island residents that that want want and need businesses to come back um but how do we protect the the moms of the world where you don't know what what the owner is going to do I mean do we kind of put it in the same Cate the subcategory of just like the resident that's waiting on insurance waiting on litigation I mean they're they're they're held up so to to tell Mom or to tell you know Brian down Mojo hey you're we you got a drop dead date they they don't own the building so that that's that's really tough that that's the one I think we're going to have to really wrestle with and then do we set up a a Zone whether it be Times Square or Santini where where you have like the kind of the the place where these businesses are allowed and it helps it helps the island it helps these small businesses see if they they can get a new start because I I think we can all agree that the businesses that have stepped up and opened up shop are committed to being here to stay but we we need more services and amenities on the island and how do how do we handle that so it's yeah I've tried to like compartmentalize it as far as categories based on like what you said I'mma we'll use the beach bar it's a land owner that's operating their own business they're they're in control of exactly what they're doing so no one else is going to be coming there then you've got properties in Time Square that are owned by someone else that are operating a business that was there before in some cases um and maybe there a different Business from The Island that's operating on uh a property that they don't own how do you address those that's a different category for me versus you know and then you get to the other one where it's you know it's very difficult because you're going to have land owners that you know as long as they can have a food truck there and they're getting the rent that they want to get there are no rush I would think to want to build a brick and mortar so to me that's kind of the ccs of the issue of how do you how do you tackle that I mean I think Anita had a very good point you know what you look at places you know what does the town want Time Square to look like we don't have control over it we don't own the land but food truck people like food trucks there I mean they seem to but people also like a place it hasn't been 95 de in 100% humidity yet either so having air conditioning might be helpful but yeah I don't know that I'm in favor either of putting a hard deadline stop date on having a business you can't to your point moms you got to get your trailer off the parking lot you know what I mean but how do you similar to the residential how do we how do we find out out what the intent is of the landowner the commercial landowner how do we I don't know I'm just adding on top of what well I think the the developmental agreements you knock on wood if if we can come to some compromise on that I think that'll speed up some of the smaller Lots so they can make a decision some some clarity and give them a path forward um but I I think the the fear is of just the proliferation on just all these lots of just another food truck another food truck another food truck which which isn't bad but when does it end and and what are what are you opening what are you're opening the floodgates um I I'm not against food trucks I think they've been fantastic and I I just think we have to as a town have a clear vision of you know do we do we set up an area just for the food trucks maybe you know we're Mid Island somewhere where there's some empty land or Santini Plaza I mean maybe that's a use for Town Hall property for now or town hall property you know something that's not in the area that would you know directly interfere with a brick and mortar that's across the street right um because we and we don't want to you know when government gets involved in prohibiting businesses you're you're just you're giving advantage to the guy that's area and and fair enough I mean they needed Advantage the first 18 months but you're going to let the market decide you know pricing products everything else so we want to do the the most we can to create a free market but there's got to be a little bit of boundaries there yeah well let's start this let's start and get one thing off the table potentially is anyone up here in favor of a hard deadline of This Is the End date where you can no longer have a portable business on your commercial property is that anyone in favor of of doing that to borrow one of your phrases to play The Devil's Advocate why can't we just set it up like we just did for residences and then with extenuating circumstances revisit it well that's a that's a good question that's the other side of the coin i s well sp250 just was for residential correct it was did not cover commercial at all yeah for the most part right yeah I mean and I and I go were you finished with what you was talking about said enough go ahead Karen run with it um so in my book I mean my mind preference is to the businesses that were here before the storm um and I would give all kinds of exceptions for them especially if they like Time Square for example they don't own the property necessarily some of them do but most don't don't um they were businesses that were here before they are trying to see what they can do you know the whole Time Square group is working somewhat together I don't know how much together but they're working to figure this out but and my biggest I had the biggest issue with businesses that were not here before the storm and coming in and renting property in Prime areas um um that were never part of that business there before so if you take sunsets you know sunsets was a restaurant there's no food truck to set up for sunsets per se if there was a food truck that he was interested in renting to I could go more along the line of that but a totally unknown business to come in I have a problem with that um um I look at the whale you know the whale is rebuilding there no ifans or butts they're moving forward but their food trucks operate as their kitchen and they're giving variety to people so there's new food trucks that come in but it's an existing business and they're operating as the kitchen so I I actually kind of really like the idea of setting up a separate area for food trucks that are new to the island maybe we want to that's that's our testing ground they going to be successful are they not food truck courts are huge and they're becoming more and more huge people love them so that could be a testing ground for now and we you know maybe we do it 6 months to a year at a time or put deadlines on it until we really figure out what we're going to do with property and planning of the island so but I think the the preference has to be made to businesses that were here before the storm and want to build bu back yeah you I think we kind of that kind of went into two things you talked about there's an ordinance that doesn't allow mobile vendors or food trucks on the island that so your point maybe that we look at that at a different time to say is that something that we want to potentially make allowable use and you got to CH that's one of the things that you could change with the times um anybody that's been to Backyard social knows how successful that place is it's all the time I mean people love to go there it's it's a great concept that you know people talk to each other so it's it's really cool but you know you talked about Sunset Grill and that's essentially what sparked this whole conversation or has accelerated I guess I look at it from if I'm the land owner going back to the beach bar if the beach bar decided they didn't want to be a beach bar until they start building their building and they wanted to have I don't know Jerry's Sunglass Hut there would we have a problem with that because that wasn't what was there before so I I I try to look at is you know I think we've all been very fair with trying to work with people to help them get back on their feet um and are we saying then if if be you own the land but you're choosing not to open the business that you also owned there because you can make more rent from somebody that's willing to run a t-shirt shop or run a do do we really want to get involved and telling them how to operate their property and their business or do we want to say you can do that but there's a there's a timeline on it you you're not going to be able to do that forever you're not so beach bar has chosen to to do what they did before Terry has chosen to not do what he did before whether you love it or hate it does the government really want to get involved in telling because what if he says I'm going to build back a you know I'm going to build back a t-shirt shop here instead or like I said to an need on Monday or he buys the business that's sitting there there would we have a problem with then I think we all want to have the business that was there before but not every business can come back or wants to come back yeah so how do you I mean how do you you I have a problem with telling a land owner that spent a lot of money and pays a lot of taxes that they can't run a commercial business that is legal and is allowable whether you like that's the other point where you you get into government overreach and you're you're you're you're suppressing the market you're you're prot not so much protecting other business but you're you're when you when a government ceases to when starts to disallow entry into a market you're raising prices you're you're keep you're hampering unemployment you're you're doing a lot of things that you really don't intend to do but th those are things that happen and there may be this new business that that wants to try out and they become successful and they want to open up shop here you know I think a lot of people say oh there's just vultures coming in well you know they're not they're they're business people and and they're trying to make a living and they might might hit something that that works and they start employing people they they come up with a great idea and they may become members of the community I you know I think the Market's going to Bear based on the occupancy of the hotels and the vacation rentals and the amount of tourists and you know increase of of people coming moving back to the island there's going to be more goods and services needed so I think when government overreaches and prohibits that I I think it's you're you're running a really slippery slope there yeah I mean I don't I I don't see everybody's emails but I can tell you how many complaints I've gotten since the storm for these temporary food trucks or these temporary uses and the number is zero I've not had one complaint until this one truck showed up and now but again whe whether you like it or not Dan um or Mr Mayor sorry um you both been mayor you've got to realize if they could have opened up a a Voodoo shop who knows and somebody doesn't like it but the Market's going to we those guys out I mean it's going to be Mark Market driven right so what you know if you don't like it don't buy from them don't have your you know it's it's just one of those things but if if they they they're successful then there's a market for it yeah and you know we we always we've heard a lot of talk about you one of the things that all of us have said that we love about this island is it's fun it's funky it's eclectic it's you know to me those things are fun funky and eclectic you know it's it's like we're talking out of both sides of our mouth with this issue we want people to build back we want them to be successful but we don't want to we don't want to budge on certain things but we don't want to keep the trailers and it's I don't know how you can do both eventually it's going to get there eventually as you said the Market's going to dictate if you're going to try to run your trailer and the two people on either side of you build a brick and mortar and you're sitting there empty in July 5th or July 4th when it's 95 degrees and 100% humidity because they have air conditioning it's going to make you rethink yeah there's more more to business than just throwing up a t- t-shirt shop I mean you know there's there's a social media component there's the advertising there's you know how you you know participate in the community I mean the the people that that do well with social media and that sponsor the Little League teams and do stuff like that more and more people are going to support them where these guys just come in and open up a you know stand yeah they may make some money in season but they're they're going to be gone I mean it's it's just again it's it's not just your product it's it's your overall involvement involvement can I be more Devil's Advocate just one second go sure yeah so all right we talk about the the people who are renting per se they didn't own the land or anything like that so where are we on the same as we're pushing residential to have a plan and that type of thing where are we on pushing businesses to have a plan like the area that moms is in like the area that um oh what's the one across the street um Heavenly biscuit thank you I mean I mean they had a building you know where what's happening in those areas what's going are we pushing them as well Time Square I mean what is happening with Time Square I mean I hear I know kind of what's happening but well should are we pushing that for development as well as residential I think we should be yeah I I don't think anybody wants to see trailers forever but no I think do you put again well let's let's finish hearing from vice mayor adal well it's a great discussion I I wish I had all the answers on this one because I've heard from a lot of constituents and and there's a wide variety of opinion on this issue um I'm at some point I'm interested to hear from our attorney uh and also our town manager and director of operations because they're going to have to enforce this and I I we have to be we have to be cognizant of what we can and can't do and what are bound boundaries are uh CU I assume this would be ripe for litigation if we're discriminatory in any particular way um and I think to Karen's Point what's the what's the sentiment and and what are the incentives to drive folks towards a brick-and mortar solution I've had some people say oh I love the mobile mobile businesses that's fine that' be fine if they're here forever I have another significant part of the constituency that says we want to incent and encourage brick and mortar we don't want trailers here long term uh it's a community discussion that I think is important and has to be ongoing and if we do decide that long-term brick and mortar is desirable uh do we then uh allow for an outlet such as a a food court for food trucks like I I I think the town hall property would be an interesting location it wouldn't directly compete with anyone and it it would be uh it would be be interesting to see how that fares in the off seats and I think we we need to remember what the off season was like last summer it was brutal here uh it was like a desert and uh and those that's going to be the ultimate test of the entrepreneurs who can survive the off season here on Fort Meers Beach particularly as we're rebuilding and for those who can tough it out through this summer and this fall God bless them we welcome them because it's it it was pretty Grim here last summer obviously things are getting better um but I I I uh I don't know that there's an easy answer but I do think if if if if there's a policy goal of of trying to incent brick and mortar uh we need to be cognizant of policies that drive us in that direction it may be premature at this point uh because we're still sorting things out we have a lot of unknowns with Time Square we have a lot of un unknowns with kesto we have unknowns with SE Great Plaza Santini Plaza I think is starting to come come around and come into to is getting into a little bit of a more appropriate timeline where we can we can measure results but we don't have a lot of places for businesses to go right now Myers side will be before soon they've have some potential op options for retail but this is a broader discussion because if we're going to push towards brick and mortar we're currently in negotiations with the kosto owner who also owns seagra maybe part of that negotiation is is getting them off their uh tail and starting to get them to renovate their property so we could have an incubator for some of these small businesses that we so desperately need you know if somebody wants to come in uh with a with a trailer and cut hair and they they park somewhere on the island there you can't get a haircut on the island unless you go to Margaritaville it's lovely place but it's also very expensive so I mean it also help helps solve the traffic problems in other words if a business comes to Fort Meers Beach that's a new business but meets a need do we want to disin that business and that that's a challenge you know if that hair cutting place Parks down at the South End of the island or at even in Mid Island there's a lot of folks who need to get their haircut men and women who are driving off Island right now uh if let's say somebody wants to do a medical truck like an immediate care or some kind of a clinic a mobile clinic we certainly would wouldn't want to discourage that so I mean I I I uh I'm raising more issues than I am in terms of solutions because it is challenging but if we are these are important things to talk about and think about because long term I'm a big Market driven person I like to let the market work but if we have particular goals like brick and mortar we need to kind of build into our incentive system a way to encourage that uh and and maybe having a separate area for food trucks uh for new food trucks uh maybe that's the compromise I'm just thinking out loud John I kind of am all over the place honestly I grew up in a brick and mortar doughnut shop uh for over 50 years so that's where my heart lies um but I understand the other side of the issue the concern I have though and and Scott one of my favorite taco places in deor Iowa when out of business because a food trucks because they're not having to pay the taxes they'd set up in somebody's parking lot and didn't have to pay the taxes that a brick and mortar person did now if we do that with Town Hall how does that break down does that give them an unfair advantage over a brick and mortar because there there's no property taxes there for them to pay that's a concern yeah you know bring the tacos into it yeah nobody's H just want to make sure you were awake at the other God's gonna have to recuse himself now at this point yeah now he's torn between donuts and Tacos well I think part yeah you've got a great point there John but I I think once summer comes you're you know most of my guests that that come down here like where can I where's an air conditioned place I can eat or where's some some place on the water where I've got some breeze it's you know the Summers down here as as Jim said are are brutal especially for for consumers I mean yeah the you're probably going to get the the construction workers or guys you know working running down there and grabbing a couple tacos but the the family's spending the the money and they you're you know want to go have a beer with their tacos or whatever are going to probably go to a brick and mortar with air conditioning but you that's it's it's it's not a it's not there's not a just a One-Stop solution for this I mean it's it's a it's going to be a challenge for us yeah I mean you you just looking at Time Square how do you with so many different business owners there to build something individual of someone else to me I think is going to be very very difficult even even if you were allowed to do more than what they could do it's it's it's going to still be extremely difficult to do uh you know that's why they're working on what they're working on but when you look at other areas uh you know I look at places like old San Carlos where we got one business that hasn't touched their building we had to go put fencing up around it they refuse to do anything we're we're getting that taken care of right next to it you got someone that's fighting for their livelihood just trying to sling beers and you know try to try to keep themselves afloat it's it's two different things but how do you it I mean it's not easy to to navigate through that and then you've got someone like Tom and in Time Square who's who's set up and it leads me to ask you Nancy you know just using Tom's because it's it's everybody's seen and heard it you know FEMA had a very big issue with temporary stuff being there you know of all of the things that are in Time Square his is probably the least mobile if you will or the quickest to move and is is FEMA going to look down at us and say you you can't do this forever cuz I can tell you in having meetings with them they're here these guys know it they're they're here every day and they're looking at it and they're they're they're not going to let this go on forever they're not going to let you because what happens you it just it's inherent you start with a food truck and then all of a sudden you see a Palapa and all of a sudden you see something that's hard connected it's not a quick connect and it just morphs into something which is is cool and it's funky and it's viby but the people that that come in to help us when there's a dis disaster don't like that stuff so they're you know at some point they can just look at us and say you're not doing what we think you should do and you're not going to be in the flood insurance program so legally how do we navigate through that how do you um I don't have the answer for you right off the top but it is a good issue um and we'll have to go back and look at what Bea regulations and requirements are and how they may react to something like that I think if you have checks and balances on what you're actually permitting um perhaps periodic reviews um that might be more indicative that FEMA may be in agreement with the policy of the town to um to Monitor and to try to get to the ultimate um use that that would be permitted as opposed to having something temporary that just continues to morph and and I mean the further we get away from the storm the quicker we're going to get to no longer a state of emergency I think they just extended the state 30 days or something so that's going to run out at some point is a is a easy solution at this point if someone is that's going to be a new vendor that comes in potentially to to be on a temporary site if that business conflicts with any other ordinances that they have to come through the process you know as opposed to just here's your temporary permit you can set it up because that's the way it's set up does it make sense to say you know this business that you want to set up conflicts with this this and this ordinance so we're not just going to give it to you you have to come through and get a special exception just like anyone else would I don't know if that's the answer to to try to alleviate some of the fear that as you said Jim you know people don't want to see just anything being set up anywhere all the time I I mean I don't know if that's a but going to the ex um special exception I mean that is more of a permanent nature whereas this is more just a temporary use well I just use that as a the in my mind there's a little bit of a distinction because when you start talking about special exception that's much more permanent well when we when eventually this state of emergency goes away which it will I think that's some of the temporary uses I would think would be much more difficult to to get to get because the rationale is not there as to why you would require it right yeah I don't know if everybody was tracking that but you know at some point some of the things that we've been had to do over the last 18 19 months uh they're going to have to go back to the way that they have to be done and so does that give FEMA more ability to shut down things on on say Time Square for example or anywhere on the beach because we are no longer in a state of emergency well I I don't FEMA doesn't shut anything down they they just come in and and say you guys aren't yeah well what they can say is you know your ordinance says that you're you've got an ordinance that you're outside of the state of emergency and I'm just speculating but I would think they could say you know you're no longer in that state of emergency you have an ordinance that was in place pre storm that says you don't allow mobile food trucks why are you still allowing mobile food trucks just like they do with the houses you can't can't build something bad any you have to follow the ordinances that you had in place we went through this issue when it was uh people that had lower units that they could show were perable permited lower units and they can't have it back we had go through a big fight to say they can prove it and in our ordinance we were able to use our ordinance to Def help defend our residents by saying it says there's 10 things that they can show we only require that they show three of them you know of those you know so we were able to get around that way I don't know that we'll be able to do that with with FEMA with FEMA with the temporary trailers and so I think that might be something to look at from your legal side to to see where we we certainly don't want to do anything that we we're not supposed to be doing I just think how much are we going to we're going to lose a lot of things that we've been able to do over the last 16 months when that state of emergency ends so let's kind of get back to where we circle around I I guess you know people are some people are for some people are against putting a hard deadline on on when you have this allowable use I think what you're going to work on Nancy will help alleviate some of that discussion potentially um as far as the FEMA discussion well as far as as far as the timeline the timeline for I I was still in the bucket phase are we going back there we could start let's go back there you're the one taking yes um so from a policy perspective then um businesses that uh or excuse me property owners that own the land and have a business what what is the direction I think beachbar was given as an example should they be um should we expand what is currently in the code to go into the commercial areas and um provide a mechanism to um to give a temporary um use permit to those type of businesses as we do with residential having the same checks and balance and the same deadlines the same deadlines very similar that would be the first bucket I'm the property owner um I had a restaurant I want to put um a temporary food truck or or some type of restaurant use we already determined that the people that are here have already done that I do you know I mean is there an example out there where somebody now 18 months later after season decides they want to open up uh something I I just don't know you mean temporary or hard well yeah I mean what sparked this whole thing well no no no no I'm talking a property owner that wants to bring his business back now after 18 months well I think I think there's a lot that are trying to yeah that want to you know it's just a matter of do you have an example I mean I I'm not well I think all of Time Square I think well yeah okay Time Square yeah they want they want to I mean Beach Bar they want to they but they've they've already they they've already opened I mean is there somebody out there that hasn't opened yet that's going to open John Rashard don't know I mean I mean John's got multiple properties on old San Carlos and I know shipwreck is opening in phases but I don't know what's happening across the street with what used to be um Felipe and that restaurant or anything like that or where the ocean whatever that other restaurant on the other side I think his goal is to open the brick and mortar mhm I mean he's demonstrate that with with shipwreck I mean getting that brick and mortar I'm I'm talking about do somebody want to set up a mobile trailer out like the I would think if they would do it if they could they would have done it already that's what I'm saying I mean I can't think just use Hooters the Hooters property yeah you I mean Hooters is be I yeah so you know you that's an owner then Hooters or who's or any I mean well who your is up for sale that whole building well they didn't own that yeah they didn't own yeah they didn't own it they rented yeah well and I think we just opening up so do we maybe they have intent to build a building and they're going through the design phase but they want to come in and set up a taco trailer while they're waiting for the design to start do you tell them now no you can't do that didn't say that I'm just asking question asking who who's out there that is going to be in that position I we're going to set a policy that doesn't affect anyone well I I think we're kind of getting further and further away of what the initial discussion was about is how long my understanding was how long is are we going to allow this temporary use is it going to be indefinite well I think I think with you know with the beach bar and with the whale and those businesses I mean again if if they're showing a a will to rebuild then just like the the homeowner you they they've got plans they they've they've put in for permits they've had discussions with the town Town understands what what they're going through if they're working on a developmental agreement I mean things like that then as long as they're they're in the process of building I mean I wouldn't want to tell the beach bar hey you're built your building's not done no not saying so sad right I mean I think this along the same lines as we're we're doing for the residents if if they're showing a will and and have designs an architect and everything else I mean they maybe be waiting on it's a little bit more complicated with commercial because sure you get a big you get get a bigger number and there's financing investors and everything else but as long as they're showing a will and a desire and have plans that you know we we have a Dro dead day but then you know we given the a six-month extension as they as they're being rebuilt if if they are in the process right they have to be in the process they process just like residential yeah I mean they have to be in the process I know mine's here I mean M can't have that thing there forever you have but I know you have PL yeah I know you have plans but you just don't want somebody there forever and not have an intent an intent to build so essentially you're you're saying just copy what we did with resident commercial or residential I would be okay okay doing that because bear in mind this is not your final decision on this so this will be brought back to you you can have more conversation but it also gives certainty to the property owners as far as what are the rules because right now it's very vague um and unfortunately you may have another storm down the road and then at least you already have a framework I know I know I'm so sorry put that out in the universe no but but seriously then you already have a framework and people know what to do kind of anticipate you know you're doing um preparation right but I I think that that's again that's that's pretty easy I I think most of the most of the land owners and the business owners that are are trying to build their own places back but I think that's an easy bucket to to take care of would you agree I think so I mean that Lang the second bucket is now the the moms and the mojos and the people renting that they don't have control over their build back so what what do we do with those entities it's tough to tell Mom hey you're you know you're and and she actually has a great great landlord but I I know the Mojo's property is up for sale and you know it's it's it's up in the air what Brian's going to do there so what it I think we need to handle them a little bit differently if they're they're rent or or could they move somewhere they move and then maybe you let them move to another commercial site that's right next door I know you might have to move your place while you're building correct we don't want to tell or no right but if she can move over to a nearby property while it's getting built and same with the whale I mean they're going to have to move somewhere so in that bucket if the landlord has no issues the property owner has no issues with the renter re having a a temporary structure it's not a problem then right again we don't want this to go on forever so how how do [Music] we I mean you can't force a property owner to build a building you know right or put no matter what whatever no matter what we decide there's going to be people that get hurt from this yeah there will be unfortunately and there's no other way to look at it but yeah I'm okay with with moving forward with I've been okay with that the whole time keep it the same you know commercial and residential and and you know things are going to change between when the state of emergency gets lifted and and but I think we need to review some of these other ordinances to make sure they're not conflicting with each other right you know yeah so if if we go down the road of a food truck we would bring that back as well like a food cut the Zone I think it was characterized as it would be a separate ordinance change but they could travel I think we we need to look long and hard at at providing that area I think based on the emails phone calls I've gotten it there's seems to be a need out there and John I totally understand your consideration about taxes and and all that but at some point again with more hotels opening up and more people just moving back on the island um I I think we're going to have to temporarily create a Zone and it may take off and be fantastic fantastic and it may not affect the other businesses but I think we need need to look at maybe have a public Workshop maybe have some more discussions with you know business owners and food trucks and and that residents get everybody on on the same same page and see see what what they think well I think that the um you know the Zone thing I think staff addressed that just by allowing more uses within the current districts that you have solves that issue so if you want in the Commercial Boulevard if you want to allow food trucks that you don't have to create a new Zone you just allow the use within that current zoning District I think you know the elephant in the room here is some of these properties just will'll just use it one at random just look at the the small property that they had for the Heavenly biscuit what is the likelihood of being able to build anything on that property that's hopefully where the developmental agreements will help well that's well what I'm getting at is unless there's concessions with other things Heights density intensity things like that they're not going to be able to build anything so do you want to back yourself into a corner and say you have to build something but then on the other hand you're saying there's no way you get to build what you need to build to make it to make it work you know you're you're kind of fighting yourself a little bit righte so does that where is that where it comes in where you know personally I don't have a problem if moms own or not moms but Heavenly biscuit owns that property people love that little truck that sits there who you know they were a business that was existing on a small lot that they can't was going to be very difficult for them to build something I don't personally have an issue with I mean it's fun it's cool it's you know people like biscuits and it serves a purpose and you know it's mobile if there's a storm they can get it off the island I'm talking just these small small lots that we're dealing with that right now people can't build back without getting something more that's allowed um I'm okay with with with looking at how do you implement that into the new code or into the new ordinances to allow those uses just to to to give some variety but can you do or how do you go about doing to John's point of mobile trucks or whatever people that don't own or you do a Zone like that and they don't pay taxes but is there some kind of business tax that can be assessed so that they are contributing you charge them rent well I mean rent would be one thing but I mean probably a permit fee or something like that that was equivalent to whatever the tax may be on that square footage I was just gonna say I'm sorry I was just going to suggest just just a for just an example it's not Germaine to what you were just talking about Karen but I think some of this will take care of itself for example the owner of Santini Plaza said I'm happy to have food trucks on in our parking lot but once our brick-and mortar restaurants open they've got to go and and so it's a the private sector is sort of reflective of this philosophy to some extent uh but the food court Dynamic is interesting particularly at the Town Hall property because it's not directly it's not in the heart of the Entertainment District it's not it's not competing directly with other folks I mean it is indirectly but right and to to your point vice mayor um the City of Cape Coral uh had problems with this with the food trucks coming in business owners saying hey you're taking away our business so they dedicated a specific space uh Fort Meers is the same thing they have specific space where you can go and put uh food trucks we could contact those municipalities see how they came up with that Dynamic and report back to you if it's something feasible that we could move forward or if it's a paradigm that we might have to shift around and change to to fit our particular thing here um either way it it it worked great for the viability of having uh a neat place for families or individuals to go and experience different things and it didn't really take away away from the mom and pop restaurants um I I happen to live in the cape I can tell you that that that's the case there there's a ton of different restaurants up and down Del pra Pine Island uh all those the business district and yet we still have viable food trucks as well um it's a lot bigger footprint a lot bigger city I think it can work here but we have to find the right footprint that fits here and um if you would allow us to to come up with some metrics we would definitely uh love to gather that I think you you know John's Point find out what what the fee schedule is and what sure you know the the lease terms and everything else just so we get an overall the more information we have the better decision we can make sure we can put together all those Dy metrics and get that back to you well I think it send it through the LPA I think first let them take a whack at it once you get all that and and let them get their input into it as well and then that would help Nancy be able to draft something a little little more in line with the today's discussion I guess but um so you've hit three of the four buckets and the one that will generate before before we move on Nancy I just want to finish with with everybody to see how they feel about the recommendation of using the same timeline if you will right now moving forward that we did with residential I think I heard yeah we we we I think that's a good idea just so there's some certainty in the market place um now that doesn't mean it's it's a hard we're not going to change it I think if you know this the SB 250 whatever 250 changes then you know we're oh we we need to adapt with with the state um but I I think we just need to have some certainty some guidelines some guidelines I think everybody would be okay with that and I think just just so folks are clear and I think we this is our intent is that deadline isn't NE you're you're you're you're you're you're you're toast at that deadline it's it's no the deadline is by that deadline you need to demonstrate that you've got a plan of attack is that right are we all on the same page and I think it's I think commercially there's going to be again you're going to have you know interest rates you're going to have you know 1031 there's there's way more Dynamics in in a commercial property and I I think just we need to guide Town staff that hey you know there's there's just more moving Parts with with a commercial operation than there is a residen yeah although residents are are faced with the same challenges you know of Interest rates and building costs and everything else but just as long as you're demonstrating that you want to get this in the ground and you met with staff and maybe come up with a de developmental agreement or at least you know spoken staff about a plan then you're demonstrating that you want to move forward I think that's that's the key and I think we have to be careful with our messaging so it's it's deadline to demonstrate you've got a plan of attack a subsid of plan of attack not not a deadline that you're out yeah your trailer's got to go yeah I think that we don't want to scare people but I think that's that's a good compromise yeah John how do you feel I'm more than happy with it okay mayor yes sir I think one thing we can we can also look at um since we've got that property is current businesses who are now going to have to move off that property to build so they don't close maybe that's an option they can move temporarily and pay permit fees or whatever on Town property instead of bringing new ones in let's look at our locals first and see and kind of kind of cater to our local establishments so they don't have to shut down or try to find another piece of property that's you know the other end of the island they're used to down here at least this is a little more centrally located just something else to think about I think it goes to what the comp plan ask for you know a living Park you know it's a a living moving you know um so you got you got that now we can go to your your buckets I think now that we the last one and this is the tough one this is um properties where a business was not located PRI prior to Ian um at has now and is different yeah so this is the tough one we'll start with you John well wait a minute wait a minute in John's defense uh Nancy what what is our what is the what is the legal flexibility that we have let's let's do this what what currently is where are we currently so we can that's our starting point where what is what does code say what is if somebody wanted to open up today on a temporary B I don't think it's really addressed I think that one of the fundamental problems I I know but let's just people are watching they're trying talk about a lot of stuff I I I know what it is but I just want to make sure that you whomever's watching that they understand what where we're coming from to to get to this decision so so so I I'll still ask the question Nancy are we allowed to discriminate in other words can we well how are we discriminating I mean you know race sex um National we're discriminating existing pre-existing versus new right but policy reasons for that it depends I mean it's not Crystal Clear Cut y that that's my question so so we can just make that discernment I need to see exactly what characteristics you're going to apply um if there are an existing business as opposed to one that has not come back on the island is that the first legally do that that's I think Jim's question um I have to do more research I don't know that in my own little opinion I think it would be okay to do but I want to make sure that it's all right I I I appreciate that uh I don't want to I don't want to have an extensive conversation on that if it's a moot point that we if we can't and can't I don't want to scare people I don't want to get you know generate a lot of news if we can't even do it so my suggestion Mr Mayor Ian we could talk about it a little bit but I I would suggest that Nancy do some research and then we kick this back to the LPA with this kind of with the guidance that we've established already this morning and let them chew on a little bit and see what see if we can come up with something that works for everybody well repeat that bucket again how it was interesting I want to hear how you worded it um businesses that were not in operation prior to Hurricane Ian but are now coming on to the property okay so in this case not otherwise permitted I guess well in this in this case that would be land owner is wanting to have a business come on that wasn't there before right I I think to me to keep it all clean and simple you have the same thing that we just talked about I mean I don't like to use the word discriminate but do we really want to get do we want to differentiate I mean if that's a land owner and it's it's does it a difference does it does it make a difference you know if they have something there I mean I don't want but again he's got to demonstrate that he's going to be building back that's my that's what I was getting at so do you I mean if someone wants to come and set up shop for the next year that knowing that they're only going to be able to be there for another year because they're their land owner is not demonstrating that they want to do anything moving forward it's a slippery slope and then you get into how do you you can't go hook up to their their trailer with the truck and pull it off the property so I you know what I mean you're this a maybe you're right but maybe that that's I don't know there's a good answer where we're not able to um to move forward and and provide clear Direction on it at this point well if we can't if I could if I could segue or this Nancy uh uh Mr Town maner Mr director of operations is we have this we we we don't talk about it very much but we we probably should we've got this quandry with one of our or two of our core sort of retail plazas if you will with KERO and and seagrape are there things that we can do either through the negotiating process uh with the litigation issue Andor incentives or enforcement where we can encourage the owner to once again make this make these plazas uh hospitable for small businesses on the island I mean in your exper experience is there anything we when you have an in transigent uh uh uh or let me I'll try to be kind here challenging uh owner who's not working in the public interest I'm a big fan of the free market system but this is clearly hampering our Redevelopment what what can we do anything I have it actually on my list today to try to have the conversation with Frankie and and code enforcement to kind of see why is that business is not operational is it a physical issue with the building um where tenants are not coming or is it just uh the rent yeah or or is the parking business model better than having tenants I mean I I'm just asking I don't know and if that's the situation that's not a public policy that we want to encourage that is correct um the the parking violation that currently exists he does have a an Avenue for compliance um but has not proceeded down that path at this point um he has changed attorneys uh I believe he's now engaged a land use attorney who might assist getting him down that compliance route but it's a different uh land use approval that would have to go through the process you know I don't want to get too far off the rails here talking about I mean I understand what you're saying Jim but I think what we're trying to figure out here is if I if I'm a land owner how are we current how are we going going to if I'm a land owner now that doesn't have a business a temporary business on it what policy decision are we making or we do we want to make going forward to allow or not allow someone to set up shop I think that's temporarily in a mobile in a mobile in a Mobile City do we want to do we want to say no more mobile B two months from now a land owner doesn't have anything or hasn't had anything may decide that they want something temporary while they're how do you I think that's what we're trying to get at if I'm not mistaken that's we want to what's the policy we want to direct or and and it's it's a great question but it sounds like our lawyer is needs to do a little more research before you can give us a definitive answer right yes um and again this issue will come back to you um we'll try to put something together based on the conversation that we've had um today and then we'll see where we go from there but I guess I'm I'm I'm struggling with what research needs to be done we just had someone that came in and got a temporary use permit to be set up on a property that is a different use than what was there before we're not really giving staff any direction as to if someone comes in tomorrow and wants to set up something on Hooter's property so the question would be that wasn't here before are we okay with that that use permitted um under the current Land Development code or is this a use that is not permitted by the code which is what these temporary uses are for to allow um you know mobile uh this back this goes we have we have an ordinance that says these mobile vendors are not allowed so this is a temporary use so I don't know how you could say we've got this ordinance says you can't do it but temporarily you can so how do we direct staff to say issue a permit or don't issue a permit because technically it's not allowed but again I I I think the easy answer is for now until you know the town attorney says otherwise I mean don't want to limit I understand you're protecting the the current businesses but you know property rights and everything else and and just Market Place if somebody wants to open a mobile dog groming place or you know a clinic or to Jim's point if if they've if there's a a need for the island I don't know why the town would get involved prohibiting that well I'm not saying prohibit it but is there things that you could put in there like you have to be run on power you can't be running generators you know things like that like could that be a conditional part have that as far as the um the residential component as well that they have to be you know tied down in in the event of a storm they have to comply well I think just running off of real a temporary pole versus generators running all day you know I think they need to have temporary power no generator I mean I think right and that's been some of the issu with what's going on in Time Square is one business is running off a generator all day and everybody else that's running off of Power has to listen to it I I think in my mind um the distinction is the fact that in the absence of the current situation that we find ourselves in that temporary use would not would not be allowed so that's where your other ordinance comes into play that in under normal circumstances we have no temporary vendors but because we're in kind of this build back recovery mode then we're going to make an exception to allow some of this for perhaps some um uses that are not currently available on the island for a limited period of time that's where I'm seeing the distinction is it six months is it go back to year you know September 28 2025 I I Dan I I I I think it'd be hard for us as a town to say you can't open that business you can't open that business I think we we want to encourage businesses to reopen and again I think the Market's going to determine you know if the voodoo Shop's going to work if the puppy daycare is going to what whatever it is I mean I I think there as Jim said there I I don't have this problem but you know Jim needs his haircut all the time so I mean it if there's if there's a a need then some an entrepreneur is going to come in and fill that need so I I think splitting hairs as to what kind of business I I think you as long as we have a deadline then I mean they have to demonstrate that they're going to do something with their property yeah and I don't I don't have an issue with that either it's just some of the things that you can control like I said the power and the generators and the things like that I think you know it may someone I just if you're going to be living around something you want to make it as least in as possible for the other people that are living working around there and if if someone wants to like you said whether it's dog grooming or doughnut shop whatever you know if they're running on if it if it's a use well I shouldn't say it that way if it's a commercial property that had a commercial use on it I don't necessarily have an issue if they set up the temporary use as long as they're you know do there I keep saying the power but that's one thing and I'm sure there's other things that I'm not thinking of off the top of my head that'll make it a little bit more less intrusive for neighbors but with that deadline that you were saying hatte deadline with the time frame of you've gotten tell you're you're a renter coming in the land owner's gotten tell this much time to show that they're trying to move forward and those are the ones I think unfortunately that are going to have to move you know that now they know that there's that their their action has to be be taken I I think it it may be that the places that could get fixed back up they they have their incen incentivized because they know that there's going to be four or five or six businesses that are going to be looking for a place so it might speed up them getting their place open May if I may I think one thing you see uh for instance in Times Square if you're bringing in and I'm bringing a food truck or anything in for for one day or 180 days that the owner of the property needs to have the power available so we plug into it those generators do create a health issue and and I just think that that would be incumbent upon the property owner to provide that kind of power hookup or but can we be retroactive at this point of course if he if he wants to make Revenue he's got to provide Bas servic yeah I totally agree with that let me throw something out here maybe go down a side street yeah I'm glad they excited you um we all know and have been discussing round about the business that pretty much brought this to a head um ah see what I did there I did um it's a legal business it's a legal business but part of that was Optics I mean that just looks like crap um is that something that can be addressed as a sign ordinance is that a rolling sign um that we could address the Optics that way to make it look more appealing more pleasant no you probably will run into First Amendment issues with that time place manner it was a short Street and apparently it was a culdesac sorry so do you have enough you think NC to be able to to formulate something to take it to the LPA and let them throw a few things at it and come up with some more ideas and but I will say quite candidly that that last bucket that we really talked a lot about uh we will put something in writing and then you can tell us if we're wrong or if we're right and maybe make it better um well we can't vote on anything now but right so yeah how do we give how do we give them Direction going forward if someone comes in tomorrow that wants to do a temporary use on a property like for the electric thing how how do we Empower on a commercial property on a commercial power how do we empower the staff to say without a temp pole if you're running a generator you're not going to get your temporary use permit can we do that or I don't think we have the authority in your code to actually allow that I think it's been allowed in in the spirit of rebuilding and and Recovery um but I will double check with those that have been issuing the permits and their basis for that and can it be retroactive can you go back to yes we could go back retroactively you've got your permit but we need you to do this yeah I think we can okay Mr Mayor there's also a couple other checks and balances that we could put in place immediately and that would be requiring someone coming in for a temp use to give us a start and tentative end date uh because it would be the property owner that would be coming in and requesting a permit on their property MH um so that would establish already some assemblance of idea what they wanted to do going forward if they knew that the poodle grooming was coming in and he's only going to be here for the three months when we apply for that temporary use permit and that three months is up he's already breaking ground for his brick and mortar store or selling the property at that point we could at least have a timeline established when they came in for that application at least an idea uh something that that staff could kind of check back periodically with and say Hey you remember when you came and very similar to the trailers that we allow the tempus for the trailers in the residential areas hey you come back in in six months hey how you doing you know those type of things um and I think it would be a good way to kind of keep track of the few that are out there uh and not let it get ahead of us and I've seen the comments out there too about well technically we're in trailers right and we're but I assure you we're we're working very diligent ly to get out of them so it's not it's not for lack of intent right so we're not trying to exclude the town from doing the same thing so one last comment and I'll speak with Becky about it there is the pending ordinance doctrine that might give a little bit more certainty once we get something drafted and it starts in the process that might help um staff as well okay is there anything else on this no I have plenty of notes it's clear as mud right it is got it okay next is agenda management is uh I don't have it in front of me is there anything anyone would like to add to the next M&P in March well no be for April it says March way one thing one thing I want to call out um I really would like to get a strategic planning session set up sometime in April so we'll continue to talk about this going to try to find somebody from um Florida Gul Coast University to kind of lead it for us a little bit so I'll just keep you posted that's coming one thing I'd like to add if if it's if there's anyone else that you know we've had discussions with the county about Crescent Park it'd be nice to have a discussion about thoughts and ideas of what the community and we want to see done because they're asking us what we would like to see done there um we've also I'll tell you we've also thrown out is there a path to the town being able to acquire that back is that something that they would entertain so I think having that discussion about Crescent Park uh would be an important one if if someone else feels that's important I totally agree age okay can add that to it Mr Mayor yes sir I'd like to also add I haven't had a chance to ask Andy and Frankie about this first so sorry about this but I'd like to add uh to an M&P a discussion on the permitting dynamic we've made a lot of progress and instead I should have said the other day instead of we we're not getting any complaints anymore we're actually getting compliments compliments which had been tremendous but I think it would be helpful for our residents and our businesses and our condo folks to have since we have a new building official official with kind of a new philosophy new approach just to share what he and his staff are seeing on the front lines mistakes they're seeing common erors that could be avoided advice to both residents businesses and condos just because I think it would really be great to either we can do it through you guys and then maybe have Joe here but if Joe's comfortable presenting or having some of his staff present what do they see when people come in to visit what are the common challenges and how we doing and kind of advice best practices as people go through the permitting process especially with this new trailer Arrangement that's designed to sort of be One-Stop shopping what's that experience like for somebody who comes here is it better to come here is it better to call can you email just that kind of conversation I think could be helpful just and informative to folks if if I could get an amen on that from some yes right yeah I thought it was the silence was the amen I did too no objection was the amen but yeah local amen yeah I I forgot to bring this up on Monday so if you let me proceed out or just a little bit it's not an M andp thing but does council feel it would be important to have and I haven't talked to Frankie or anybody do we feel it would be important to have um um Chris Holly come down at the next meeting and kind of give us a legislative update yes as to you know what he saw what he found what he's heard I mean he's he's no longer under Town's contract anymore but I think having him here to give an update to everybody and hear it from other someone other than Andy Frankie or myself is it would it be good that be great Mr Mayor but is any chance that Ron book could come as well we could certainly we can but I think at the very or or you know someone whoever you think it's very timely since the session's supposed to end tomorrow right yeah great I think once they'll be able to tell us kind of what is give us an update is M MMP or coun no I think just at the council maybe just maybe have him if he if he can we'll figure it out and reach out to him see if he can and have him come in and just him and Ron or or R okay and just give us an update of how it closed out how it finished out how the town's looking where it's at has the governor agreed or vetoed things you know that kind of thing I think that would be helpful at the beginning of the next meeting so I have one last thing I don't know if it's the last thing I have one other thing um and I don't know if anyone else is hearing this but um Farmers Market at Times Square not so much the one that Moss Marine because it's very open and nothing is there before but I'm hearing a lot of push back from some of the businesses that are in Times Square about the farmers market the layout blocking entrances to existing businesses having too many of the same businesses that exist on Times Square I.E jewelry um that kind of thing competing businesses that they come in just on the weekends and all of a sudden they have all this competition I don't know how that's addressed I don't know if that's just taken up separately with um the management of farmers market or how that all plays but I'm I've gotten three calls on it I can I can speak out to some of that I I I stopped on there every Friday morning on my way in at 6:30 I talk to the Millers who are um the ones that are running it um we've had numerous complaints that have come to us as well uh we've had code go down there and and check um both from vendors and at the farmers market and vendors that are currently established in Times Square um every week seems to be a different challenge um as far as somebody's taking out something that doesn't belong to them whether it's a current vendor in Times Square or the Farmers Market so it is kind of a an ongoing thing to keep everybody on task on on schedule so to speak um we always make adjustments every Friday morning where they may have encroached and we've gotten a phone call or a business thinking that they're entitled to more property of Time Square than they actually have so it's a give and take each week and and it is a push back each week um they're doing they're doing their due diligence I'll put it that way to kind of keep their vendors in check and it's up to the town and we've hard to do that as well with code to go out there and keep the permanent vendors in Times Square in check um I.E taping on parts of uh the brick walkway that really doesn't exist or or belong to them um putting up bike racks that are are not conducive to to foot traffic or on their you know put it on their property not on Times Square property so it it it's at times it's it's kind of feudal but we are making a lot more progress than we did in the beginning okay and and yes we have people that are probably not getting what they thought they'd get on both sides but we are trying to find a compromise each and every Friday I think just to piggyback on that if we have our staff trained in traffic mitigation now if that is completed we need something out there at on Friday and Saturday for those two markets from 9 to one so what we can do our our staff is trained in crosswalks only uh there there's a conflict of uh well there's five right there at that intersection correct but there's a conflict of uh information whether or not they can actually do intersections other there nothing in the state statute nothing in the state criminal law that says that they can't being certified um but we are checking that and making sure uh we've got a little push back from uh lcso and we don't want to definitely encroach on that so if we can do crosswalk we could Doan crosswalk light Bridge we could do it there for sure yes sir but you'd have to look into times I mean that intersection is the only and when I say intersection we're talking about the one at Crescent we we're not uh according to what we've heard they're not certified I'm not talking Cresent I'm talking I'm talking no I'm not even talking that one because what you're saying would be the same issue at Crescent I'm talking about the non-working light at the base of the bridge where we used to have the volunteer with the Snoop or the big Snoopy hand out there whatever it was that Coss if can we at least have our staff work that cross it's not an intersection it's just a crosswalk it's a pedestrian crosswalk that's a start at least but you know too ever since lcso pulled off at Old s Carlos and Aero up at Time Square I mean that's a nightmare yeah it's a nightmare so I don't know what I mean I like having the two guys at you know Margaritaville but maybe there needs to be a third because that intersection it backs up all the way on the bridge now and I you know it's probably the last you know last three weeks in March we've got every spring break in the world happening right now but it in this coming weekend is kind of the The Perfect Storm for a lot of things with the farmers market shrimp fest all that happening all at once but yes we will definitely get it to uh Captain ler and our it actually actually comes from the people who who do the assigning of it Captain ler suggest but we'll we'll we'll talk to him as well just to keep him in in the loop yeah that's well anything we can do if we can if our trained staff can legally be out there and doing it that's something that we can control then cor right yes sir okay Scott got anything to add No Sir John no Jim that's it that's it for me thank you okay done I was getting to you okay I'm done Amy I I just want to say as a reminder the next meeting on the 18th will be held over in Bay Oaks because um supervisor of election staff will be in here for the presidential primaries Monday Tuesday Wednesday okay so just a reminder we're not here here or'll be over there next on the 18th back to the old stopping ground so the town meeting on March Monday March 18th at 9 o'clock will be at Bay Oaks correct let Becky let know move to a journ got him got we got a motion in a second any further discussion all those in favor signify by saying I I we are journ at 11:16 --------- joint meeting between the Town Council and the Public Safety Committee it is 1132 we are at the Bay Oaks 2731 Oak Street the Bay Oaks property please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance Al to flag to the United States of America to the for it stands one nation God indivisible with liy and justice for all oh yeah careful warned you yeah there go just to let everyone know I I have another appointment that I cannot miss at 1:00 so if I get up to leave a little early that's that's why that's so we'll start this meeting off with the Public Safety Committee Don Madam chair microphone goad do I have to say my name Don Thomas uh Public Safety Committee the um chair the reason we called this meeting was really because um we know we're an advisory committee and we feel like in the last 18 months since the hurricane our we really don't have anything that we're being advised on and we want to be helpful we've got a good group of people and the time being right now honestly is just a waste of our time to meet on these meetings because we're not getting any issues or any direction from the town and so we would like um to get your guidance your advice any things that you would like us to work on do you want us to be 100% advisory do you want us to be um an action committee because we're we do fall on both levels uh currently you've asked us to go check out the sidewalks and and see if there's anything that's a hazard on that that's really the only thing we've got going on so that's I'm going to start there and um Don would you introduce the members of your committee I'm gonna have I'll have them go around um go through it we'll start with Jim hi I'm Jim Nicholl you had a microphone there you go Jim nickel Dan vand chat Heidi youngworth Ron benock and we're missing uh Jim and I always pronounce as I want to say boales but that's not it's Greek and um kieren Ferell okay so that's where we're at um we're just looking for some direction and guidance and You' we get a great report each month from the fire Mike yeah we get a great report each month from the fire district and from the sheriff's office so they kind of keep us appraised of um the the kind of public safety issues that they're seeing on the island and we have a lot and we have an opportunity to interact with them and and provide them some of our thoughts on areas that they might need to uh focus on where some issues we might be seeing and we don't feel like I don't think that any of that ever finds its way up much to to the rest of you uh d d the mayor is is is our liaison so in that respect he's at most of our meetings and he hears it but I don't I guess as a committee we don't feel like okay we've got this information and it's not going anywhere for the most part so and is and should it I mean it's sometimes it's not particularly dramatic the information but it's kind of interesting to understand and know what going on on the island on a on a public safety basis go ahead you want me to start sure you look like you're ready I've been giving us some thought I watched the last meeting I thought it was excellent and I would just say I hope you remain an advisory and an action committee I think it's a great committee I think it's a critical committee uh given what we're going through postan and just off the top of my head as I was watching the meeting I started to make a list of things I I'd love to see the Public Safety Committee uh intricately involved in the community police contract and those those negotiations with the sheriff's department obviously having Jim as a member of the committee and his background as a former police officer and law enforcement official uh also being on the fireboard helps but I think having that Public Safety Advisory Board input into what the responsibilities of the community policing officers are and how they interface with the island and what their charge is how much they should be involved in traffic control how you want them to interact with business I mean what how do you build that into a contractual relationship I know Frankie and Andy have their hands full and to have your input on that I think would be extremely helpful I see uh uh all these crosswalks that the county is responsible for and I'm not sure what their timeline is maybe Andy or Frankie could Enlighten us a little bit on that but there's we still obviously need real signage there I just was praising the mayor and the Public Safety Committee for their work on the lenel crossing uh with a beautiful blinking light and uh the voice activated uh uh uh system there and it's it's a great cross crosswalk we used to have two or three on the south end and we just have that one and the lines need to be repainted there needs to be signage at all these crosswalks we need to prioritize which crosswalks uh that electric those electric blinking lights that really tell the traffic particularly the tourists who don't know our system to to to warn them to stop I think it's spectacular I'd love to see more of those I I thought the county was obligated to spend x amount of money to help us with the crosswalks I think interfacing with the county on that would be great uh and that that goes along with signage uh just my my my pet project for the month has been uh has been the Margaritaville Crescent uh uh Street intersection there encouraging people to take the the the Margaritaville uh pedestrian uh walkover that walkover obious there really shouldn't be pedestrians Crossing there at all unless it's some unique situation and because that just slows traffic but there's no signage there and I I did a bunch of Facebook stuff this last week and a lot of people didn't even know that was public people didn't realize there were elevators there people didn't realize the importance of using the crosswalk and and helping traffic flow and I don't know if we could partner with Margaritaville and the town to to develop some signage uh and I don't know how that we we'd obviously want to make sure Margaritaville is comfortable with the signage but it could really help especially during tourist season to let people know that that's an option and encourage people to go in that direction I heard you guys talking about the passing lane or what people think is a passing Lane on a stero Boulevard I mean somebody's going to get killed uh when when people are crossing at a crosswalk and someone's passing somebody not knowing that there's someone in the crosswalk and they're when they pass as you all know they're going 40 50 miles an hour sometimes it's insane and there's no signage for that and I know the sheriff's department could only be so many places at so many times it maybe some signage I love to hear uh in your meetings have the fire department explain what their reports were that week what calls they got same with the with with Captain law what calls did they get what's where are they getting complaints what businesses are are attracting uh calls and and and what what kind of crime what kind of theft burglary you know just kind of every every that kind of minutia I think is really interesting to people so I think you all have a tremendous role you all have great backgrounds to uh to continue to serve the community so uh I'm sure there's a ly of other things as well but but those are the things that came to my mind you know I think it's important to go back and look maybe go back and review some of the minutes and some of the stuff before the storm because there were a lot of things that were talked about there was the shelters there was the the cold blue stuff there was you know back then we all know there was a lot of hesitation to to want to do any of that kind of stuff but it was all very important in the past there's as far as I know there's been no allowable interaction between committee members and base staff you know Bas is out there every day they're seeing things they're they're seeing what could be fixed what can't be fixed I think having a direct line of communication to the head of Base to figure what see what they're seeing because they they see it every day we don't um they could help give direction on some things that could could certainly um benefit to what we're talking about here but I think going back and look at some of those minutes and some of the things that were on the agendas back then they they were never solved right I know um a long time ago we did organize the crosswalks we put them in a um valuable order from like 1 to 10 or whatever it was y so that we should have in minutes unfortunately my paperwork has all washed away so I don't have it yeah I think you to the Lenell point the County's not opposed to putting more of those up if we can show them the data that it's required or that it's needed you know cuz we had talked about Fairview is crosswalks we had talked about other crosswalk locations that were just as busy or busier than Lenell and there was a need for it but they need to see the data so I think getting information from the fire district because they were very very helpful in getting that LEL crosswalk without their data we would have probably not gotten it um and the County's not opposed to doing things like that as long as we can show them there's a need for it there's a there there's a a reason why it needs to be there I know that they they don't like to see the blinking crosswalk light at every single crosswalk which I get that but I think more than just lenel has to be out there and and using that data and again I think working with bass and and those guys I should keep calling them bass Neighborhood Services um I think they could give they could they could be helpful in using their data as well of what they see um whether it's bike accidents whether it's you know so those those are the big things for me you know these the trolley stops m we talked we talked about trying to do some sort of call systems there with I think it was cold blue is what you guys were looking at if I remember correctly that never really went anywhere I just think with it with New Direction and new staff it's I would revisit some of those things for sure and I can't even remember them all off top of my head it's been so long but there there were several I know we talked a lot about bikes and you know lights and those kind of things but crosswalks are very important now the sidewalks I know we talked about you mentioned him Monday the app mhm um and then what was the other app he was working on he's not here but that's for the hurricane the hurricane yes yeah so if people decide to stay in their homes because you can't enforce them and make them leave that it would be an optin and they need to let um they use this app to let the sheriff department know and the town know that you know I live at 123 Main Street and I will be at the house I am not leaving so that after the storm it's um the first the First Responders can go to those houses or those um places of business or wherever they're at immediately and know that there's somebody there whereas somebody else is that I'm not going to be home that they won't be there and he's developing that right now I wonder if something like that could be you know we got that email I think we all got it there's a list of 15 Properties or something that they laid out that was doing work without a permit and they were worried about safety issues it came in a form of a mail it was a maybe I'm the only only gu if I got I'll send it to am huh it was a well was a scanned letter that was actually sent to the town right and then there was a bunch of bunch of um I know got do you did get it yeah oh okay I didn't know if everybody got it or not but but that's something that has to be looked at too I think public safety's aspect if if someone's doing something they're not supposed to do your neighbors pools that aren't covered I mean there's so many things that that need to be addressed but there's a lot of it that's outside of our control there's can give all the data we want but if nobody's going to fix it or nobody's going to do it but I think a key thing is working with staff with working with Neighborhood Services they what they see every day is the stuff that we can really then we could give you some more Direction you know whether they're seeing whatever Don I've got a question is it that your information is not getting to us or our direction to you is not getting there or is it a combination of both where's your frustration I think it's a combination of both I I just feel like we're not getting any direction and I know things are people are very busy and if Dan's not there we don't like Dan's our Lifeline really he tells us what's going on and and so it was a perfect example this last meeting when he wasn't there we had no idea even though if we watch Town Council meetings we may not know some of the stuff or you miss an important piece of information so we're not 100% sure of what's going on and then we sit there and say well should we be focusing on this is this a waste of our time is something already happened happening perfect example is the buildings um the unsafe buildings and I know that you have a plan but I didn't know the exact we we couldn't have a discussion about it that was intelligent because we didn't know where you guys were at in the process and you're just ahead of the schedule so so you know if he's not there we don't get enough information I guess is the best thing and even though we might watch all the Town Council meetings we do miss some things and we may not know I think as a council as a whole we've gotten away I me before the storm we would give updates of you know what was discussed and as you said I think maybe there's so much going on but that's not an excuse I I can't remember the last time any of us really kind of gave an update on whether whatever committee we're talking about as to what was talked about so I think we need to for sure bring that back because for a while there it seemed like it was just using me because I don't it's not me that should be giving you all the direction right it's Council should be giving you Direction and without talking like we're talking it's hard to do that yeah you know so maybe we just get that's part of the thing we need to do for all committees is just give an update as to the last meeting doesn't yeah even if the even if the c or the advisory committee people aren't there to give the update then we as Lea step in I mean I like it better when the someone from the the committee themselves come and gives the update but we we before on the LPA we used to have the next council meeting we say okay can you be there if not who's your backup and then we just rotate so everybody gets a chance to interact with Council but just you know I don't I know everybody can be there every time but if you in your meeting say okay next council meeting um Jim C can you go can you go speak on our behalf just give an update and it doesn't have to be a 15-minute presentation just a boom boom boom this is what we're thinking this is what we're working on what do you think yeah and that I think that'll keep us better informed of to what's going on well things change you know week to week month to month it's like what was an issue this month is not necessarily an issue the next month it's already been corrected so trying to stay ahead of it well like one of the issues um like I was going to bring up we're all hearing about the golf carts and the mopeds and the motorcycles on the sidewalk and then I just happen to see on the town website um I think it was on Facebook they put signage up which I had no IDE you know I'm like oh that was okay that was obviously decided they also arrested people the past couple days okay that too I gave out tickets so you know those are the kinds of things that we've talked about like what can we come up with a solution um to help mitigate that and you know so we didn't know that that was that that was going on and is there something else that we need to be doing as a Safety Committee to come up with solutions to help with that or is it not wanted is it unwelcome advice if you're already handling it on your own we don't want to make more work and go hey we came up with this great idea and then you and you say well really we don't have any we're not going to do that you know I don't know I don't know if I'm making it being clear Don who is your staff layers on Jason Jason I mean you're Jason's a wonderful fellow but is are you the best person for that in other words should somebody from Neighborhood Services be that person who's kind of on the front lines I mean I'm just go ahead he's pointing over there I'm not trying to tell people what to do I mean Jason's wonderful but he's just not yeah I always enjoy these joint meetings I really do um I I need to fall on the sword on a lot of this stuff everything was my responsibility it's not necessarily the council you know when I got here there was a lot of stuff a lot of stuff I think we all agree there was a lot of stuff um sometimes when things come up we react quickly we we don't have 30 days or three weeks or four weeks to wait for a committee meeting my apologies we we will be more cognizant of that uh Tom's moving into a different role for us to be able to work with the safe committee and to be able to work with the Lee uh Lee County Sheriff's Office spoken with Dave Harner at length about the signs we're not getting them anytime soon it's an $8 million countywide project they're waiting for FEMA to approve we did get the lenel crossing out of those conversations that was quick but that was already coming up out of the ground as well that that wasn't completed before the storm so it didn't fall within FEMA funding correct so that's why that was done uh but we continue to work but they they have said you know I'm like we need need the the warning signs the speed limit signs all the signs that you're responsible we did a sign project townwide in less than two months and they still are waiting to get a few traffic signals up over by the hospital so you know there's a lot of give and take and we were constantly try to to get Dave Horner in the county to you know I'm not Cas any dispersions on Dave that's not my point but it it's there's just a lot of moving Parts sometimes but we do need to do a better job as a staff to to come to to this committee and you I think Jason's been given several different responsibilities just since I've been been here I'm kind of that guy where where's everybody fit right we've got some all the parts that seems fitting right now so Tom's going to be you know taking that lead role to attend the meetings to make sure that he's my conduit vice versa between all of us that's that's a big responsibility so I appreciate anything that that that you can share with him or me or or or you know what we need to do to make sure that that we're all more successful that's a perfect example that you already did a sign you went you know you had staff do a um an analysis of all the signs that need to be gone be up that need to be um um created you've already submitted to the state we didn't know that and that's the kind of thing that we would and I want to say then we're having two people do the same thing and if we would contact you if it was me on my on your end I'd be frustrated going listen we already did this you need to you know slow your stay in your lane we already handled it so that's the kind of thing we'd love to know that way we're like okay they're handling it and then we can get that out to the community because people do want to know that and they can and work with the POI to say Hey listen these are things that are in the works we haven't forgotten about it you know these things are in the works and um please note that staff has already handled it signage is coming up and um we don't have a time frame because we're waiting for FEMA funding yeah I think to your point Andy sometimes things are moving so fast that like it's been hand just you move on to the next thing on to the next thing and you kind of forget about it but I I like hearing that you're going to have Tom yeah that he's he's going to be there interacting and there was some there was another thing that was talked about before the storm um having communication with our neighborhood services to be able to communicate directly with Lee County Sheriff's Office on a certain Channel that's out of the other channel on outside my realm you and Frankie probably know more about it than that but and that never really went anywhere I know that Public Safety Committee was looking into cost and you know what radio could work with the fire district and with Le Lee County Sheriff's Office to if they see something they can contact them right away they don't have to call 911 or they don't have to call a non-emergency number and that just kind of fell by the wayside when the storm hit so I think if we need to relook at a lot of the things that we were working on before the storm because I bet 50% or more of them haven't they just fell off the vine the communications issues the communications issue I think is really important and I think there are it's a matter of working through the the Lee County communications center with the fire and Sheriff uh so that our people could be equipped with a radio have a channel that could get into the dispatcher or a channel they could flip over to if the sheriff was coming to them or needed to talk to our staff in the field so I think we you know I'm surprised we don't have that already it's something we certain should be working towards I think uh and I I can't imagine they wouldn't uh appreciate the opportunity to be able to interact with City staff at base or whever is in the field already ahead of them uh they like to know what's going on before they get there if they can or they like to know about problems that are developing before they get too big and I know yeah Frankie go ahead I for all that you know know me I'm the compliance and uh operations director um we already have plan plans in the work we already have radios that have been approved by Council uh not only for the town but uh so they would be able to use as well the town has a dedicated channel uh with Lee County already uh we'll be able to De monitor that um and there are certain protocols just like you know uh that we'd have to address if it was an emergency and not emergency but just having that monitored uh both by EMS fire and police uh that'll greatly uh absolutely help us out in the field as well thanks so so you're doing that Frankie before you sit down uh Tom can you you've kind of restructured what neighborhood services are Bas does do you want to just talk a little bit about the restructuring and how you've changed things sure so I before Andy and I got here it was a parking enforcement and guys driving around in buggies um and uh since we kind of got here and met with Tom Tom was here um not for very long but uh we share the same ideal um we knew that it it did not have to be a parking thing um as the council knows we were going sometimes 25 30 complaints a week um for parking fines uh this and that uh we're currently last four months been running at zero um we've have record re revenues being brought in um so when you have stuff like that happening you know something's working right so so don't skip over that Frankie so you've had record record revenues coming in for parking with no complaints about tickets written 5 seconds before the correct because of this man sitting right here right exactly Tom yazo is taking it upon himself yeah we won't um he he he we talked about it one day and he said hey I hope you don't mind I was like mind why would I mind he actually reaches out to people and says hey you know you got a ticket it's your obligation to pay um can we work something out and and and here's the parameters and uh so he's recouped so much more money than we would have ever had before uh just by his demeanor um which is very low-key but to the point and um I tell you a little drop of Honey gets an awful lot of flies sometimes and and and he has definitely done that and and so that that is why he has taken that department and we gotten away from the base moniker we we call them Community Services because that's what they're at Beach to Bay that's our philosophy so instead of just going up the buggy all down and up and down the beach they're actually going from the beach down into little districts up and down the streets there are eyes and ears for people that need help assistance uh they see things that don't look right they write it down they report to our Code Compliance staff they report to uh or report it to uh public works or to one of the supervisors or directors so we can take immediate action on it so it it's really opened up the the whole realm of what we can provide the city we don't have a police force we we probably don't need a police force at this present time but aside from that we don't want a bunch of Vigilantes running out there either these these men and women are not that um they're they're reaching out to the public they're helping people that were stranded with needed gas uh help people that are broke down uh uh one person was a little disoriented they found out where they needed to be and got them back home this is what community services means you're in the community you're providing that service of being just the eyes and ears of the town that can't be out there so they they've really kind of taken that and run with it um and and and helped not only public works but also our code team um which brings me to the next point is we've now restructured our our code staff that are going to be going out we've hired a couple of new people certified people uh which is a big deal for the town to have a certified code officer uh when you stand in front of a magistrate you know what you're bringing to the table and they know what you're bringing to the table so it it it helps a lot it gives us a little bit more provenance moving forward um they're not going to be under Tom and his assistant manager um also moving forward so we're going to have the city clerk on one side and code in compliance on this side of the town hall trailer working in unison working helping each other out in the field and I I I believe um that it's going to Give a Little Bit Stronger presence to this town as we build back so so I just have a question question Frankie um so if you look at a sterile Boulevard and like literally just the other day somebody on a moped was giv a ticket I believe somebody in a golf cart was giv a ticket on the sidewalk motorcycle um or motorcycle whatever it was but I mean how how does that communication go to let lcso know what's happening on a sterile Boulevard what they need to be watching out for the people people that are using the center as the passing Lane um how does that communication all work currently it's not only because we don't have the means for that the radios are not here yet U but once they're established that will open up that channel they'll be able to reach out to hey we have a hazardous situ a potential hazardous or life-threatening situation there's always deputies here it's just trying to get them to the right situation and and uh so we're not talking about the ones that are assigned to the intersections those are usually off off duty or volunteer there are active deputies here all the time um so it's just a matter of getting them in the right place at the right time like you said the the people that were pulled over um Andy and I we we kind of both saw that on our our way home one night um so so they're here they're they're doing their job I think the the whole radio network is going to allow my team to do even a better job and and and help the citizens of this town so I I think as we expand that the radios were originally purchased to keep key town staff involved during an emergency situation the need to expand that to allow Community Services to have a bite of that as well I I I think will greatly uh improve what we can offer our citizens you know and the other question I have too is you know with crosswalks um just because there is a crosswalk there does not mean pedestrians don't have to look both ways I mean and they don't they just there's a crosswalk and they just go and so I don't know if there's signage if there's like putting the responsibility on them I mean I know we have to you know lean towards crosswalks but how does how does that all and Jay Walkers I mean running between the cars all the time and unfortunately we honestly do not have the right to enforce on Estero uh we can point out we can make suggestion um but enforcement on Aero being a county road has to be coming from the lcso um that's just the jurisdiction of it um on city streets on beach accesses on the downtown area that belongs to us we definitely can reach out and and and believe you me you know how I preach education education Tom takes that even to the 10th degree uh his staff have worked greatly with with people out there saying No this is the reason why we do this and and I think sometimes when you explain something to somebody you take that time to do that um the the light blob kicks on it's not going to happen to everybody but it does happen and and they've gone to the N degree on trying to educate uh we are going to really start ramping up helping and Advising lcso where we see them needed uh we just weren't in that mode well financially being able to go down that road yet um After the Storm uh but as slowly those funds start coming in we can give them the tools that they need to be out in the community Tom Andy would you mind if Tom came up just introduce himself and that maybe you've could share a few things that you've seen that the Public Safety Committee could assist you on and your team on to absolutely my name is Thomas yazo uh I'm a retired police officer out of New York uh did 22 years on a job up there moved down here about three years ago full-time I closed my company which I had after that I had a private security business in Manhattan working for Homeland Security for many years so I'm down here full-time took this job last March it's about a year and a week so when I came in I saw that we were a different kind of creature here when I took this job I thought we were here to kind of be baby Bay Watch go out and talk to people you know be around save a duck do you know do that's kind the back of your shirt so when we came in I realized that the focus was entirely on parking we focused only on parking and fines I found that to be in a touristy place I never worked in the touristy place but I wanted wanted to and I found that that wasn't going to work for us so I tried changing it at that point uh these gentlemen came in they were hired they bought into that Vision so we dug into that and that's where we're at now so as to the signage you'll notice the new signs that are on the sidewalk they don't they don't say anything we're going to beat up it says warning this is the ordinance please don't do this that's kind of what it's about and the warning is the first word up there because I want people to understand it's not okay and then we when we do stop people because we do stop people on there as well we don't rate the ordinance out which we could but we don't a lot of times hey do you understand why we're not doing this we don't do this because you can hurt somebody last year 23 people were killed in New York City in Manhattan by ebikes by getting hit by them and you see how fast they fly down the sidewalk so we stop them we do it safely it's not always easy for the so to stop them we have a little bit more um ability because we're on the rtvs so we get up and get ahead of them we try to follow them see where they go safely and then then we stop them and explain it to them so that's kind of what our goal is and we do that on the beach as well we have more signs coming about no vehicles on the beach they just came in today take some time to get all the stuff made and the signs for the sidewalks the permanent signs are in process right now so we're going to hit those in the major intersections coming from margaretville south and we'll have some downtown as well do you have any have you seen anything that the Public Safety Committee could help you and your team out with I would address having some neighborhood watches to be very honest with you I think that's a grand plan for this island having having the community members kind of keep an eye open it worked well in New York when I worked there it worked very well because you have people and I know you're going to have you're going to have the some people are going to be looking out their window every day with nothing better to do to make complaints that's fine we'll take those complaints they do that already but they call you guys so if you can direct them over to us I can at least take the complaint I can vet it if it needs to go to them and then to you so be it we'll move that way but I speak to uh the captain and the major for the third precinct every day I was on the phone this morning with Tim Lawler so we talk about things that are happening things that are going on on the island how best to address it uh we had a couple cases where we had people who were in some of the buildings doing some pirate work uh stealing wire and stuff I sent that out to their detective division we squared that away so we started attacking it as best as we could you know so you you guys live here too you know it you see it and we see it going on all the time uh the Neptune we're working on the Neptune again with them uh we're attacking them about getting fencing up because it's become a homeless Hotel they're having fires in the center and everything like that the deputies now check it every day we're pushing people out of those uh upper level homeless condos that they got going we're moving them out of there and that's for Public Safety in general and I know we had shelters on the island the shelters are kind of gone now for good or for bad but we also don't want them making houses in in abandoned buildings so so abandoning building so that's what we're pushing on that as well right now we did do a neighborhood watch um so we've got contacts and everything we launched that probably the year before the storm so we'll get we we'll resurrect it yeah that would be that would be fantastic and just put us into the loop so we can be there to help because no I can't go down there and make an arrest anymore that's not what our goal is but at least I can get it on the radar for the third precinct and I can also make sure we're paying attention to it and we're good eyes years we're good report writers we've changed how we do our reporting now we've created another instant report that we do instant reports on everything including trip and Falls when we respond to those things and we were then we take that and put it to PW to the bosses to PW so they can go and take a look at the area where this happened and if it's something we have to rectify quickly we take care of that too so are you're going to start coming to our meetings I am that'd be great absolutely I think having you and the other two Public Safety agencies there is going to provide us a lot of input as to what's going on absolutely and that'll help us maybe up help counil really it's really all here to try to serve the public I think will help I do have one idea I want to um I'd like to research a golf cart lane that starts at um Beach Baptist because that's gone we've got the land you know that's the super secret shortcut that if you live on the island that's the way you go you turn on Connecticut and you go the back and used to come out then by U Red Coconut when the traffic was bad but it'd be interesting if we did a test and created a golf cart designated Lane mopet would probably go on there as well that we Meander back through that neighborhood hit Red Coconut create um a gravel lot Lane which is then when Seagate does develop it it'd be interesting to say part of the development you have to give this back by the way they're open to that yeah okay and then then we hit you go through there then you hit um SE grape and I know you're in negotiations with them so allowing behind that building there's enough room then you hit the library by the school Zip by there Bay Oaks then we hit town hall which is a big empty property the tops property is empty um the church that just went down you get all the way almost to um where Sandy Bottoms is that's the only thing I couldn't figure out at that point I got a little out there but um I don't know I was thinking you know it'd be an interesting test Don if I could I think that's a brilliant idea and I think I wouldn't restrict it just just golf courts and electric bikes but bikes as well because people are terrified to ride their bikes there they are yes and um it would become the if you live here you would tell people this is the way you go if your people are visiting you'd have the map and say you know take the golf cart lane if you're on the south end to get up north it would eliminate some of the traffic and uh Jason wasn't there isn't there I seem to remember there was there's already a map out there that was done for bicycles that has already it's already done it'd be great if we could add a little space so can we get that can we get that map to the Public Safety Committee for their next meeting because it's already done it'd be great well we kind of go through there and sort of L it out lay out a plan yeah I mean there's between a couple houses I mean if if you were on the south end and you knew that you could get up north in 15 minutes in a golf cart it would just change a little bit of the dynamic those golf cart rentals and sales would just I know this is a conflict of interest I'm not saying anything anyway but that was just my idea I mean we've got so much free land right now this is the time to to test it and um I was even thinking if if there was a um on the left hand side of a stero if there's a little more room maybe there's a crossing for the golf cart you know it goes across the way and then we widen the sidewalk into the property and you have it's over there I don't know but I'd love to see that map um yeah just to be clear and that that's going to be like a slow moving vehicle type space right not not for pedestrians for slow moving vehicles and not saying pedestrians can't be on there but if you're going to have the crossover right if you're going to have a crossover between the two then we need to be conscious of that which means that we're going to need an ordinance to protect people who get on that space and walk that's the only thing I'm just looking ahead of that just because people get run over by golf carts and they get hurt then too so well I I did have someone ask me the other day and may this is a Nancy question in Fort Meyers they golf carts and ebikes can drive pretty much anywhere they want they can drive on the sidewalks they can they could kind of but I get what their their question was well if I can go to Fort Meyers or I can go to unincorporated Lee County and drive on a sidewalk why can't I do it on Lee County as a stero Boulevard sidewalk because there's usually a designated area for golf carts only and they're supposed to be um street legal well that yeah I get that but I it was a question that I didn't have the answer to and I wasn't it is true they can go on the sidewalk in Fort Meers yeah they're they're definitely not street legal I mean you could drive from downtown all the way pretty much to Iona if you wanted to well I just know that in other communities we have like designated are where golf carts can operate but then you can't take them Beyond a particular Road often times um it's like a state highway you can't cross over that you have to stay within a confined area and is there any state statute about a bike lane as a bike lane they ask me that same question and I don't know the answer to it so if I can drive my my ebike 25 miles hour down the bike lane why can't I drive my golf cart down the drive bike lane and I don't know if there's a laws or I don't think that the bike lanane itself is wide enough for a golf court but I mean you do have multi-purpose um Trails well some you might morph into something like that that could be multi-purpose if you think of like gas Barilla Island they don't even have a it's a sidewalk it's actually just a path so it's you know like uh treadmarks that the that and everybody takes their golf carts on those so they're never on the street and they're going up and down you know so it's not this you know you could gravel it I mean it's not but you can make it more distinctive yes yeah but I think that map that bike map that's already done I think would be pretty pretty helpful it's out there it's been out there for a while so I they were trying to do some study if I remember I don't remember all the details but go from basically all through Lee County and Fort Meers Beach was part of that trail but I think that if we came up with something that was a plan that we've always talked about this we encourage bikes we encourage you know less cars less traffic you've got the golf carts um you know these people are complaining about the south end again we're back to season and um this would be one way that if you lived here you want to get up to the North End to eat you could have Rick Shaw on there that's another thing uh people on the bikes you know the pulling people Rick Shaws little business yeah and that could go up and down those on electric bike this is a golden opportunity because of what has happened to us if we had it we had an engineer look the whole place oh if we had an engineer look the whole situation over with that goal in mind we might be surprised what we would be able to pull together as a plan it may may require some land acquisition or you may get people who are willing to contribute a small segment of their land to allow for this kind of of act activity adjacent to the sidewalk Frankie can you remind me tomorrow when we're with the r2p P2 people let's bring this up to them because they're the ones that are doing yes and there's planning provisos in that plan uh to do just exactly what you're talking about whether it's for the Rickshaw whether it's a gravel path a running path there's so much into that planning part of the R2 P2 that we can do it's another arm of a FEMA uh project um so it just kind of opened up to us and they're going to be on site tomorrow so this would be perfect to take them down some those sites so if we can have that for that tomorrow y I guess I want to urge a little Caution because I did receive an email earlier I don't know if everybody else did about the increased car traffic in that neighborhood uh with people taking that as the back way to get up um so just be aware of that I guess I think though if you did live on those back streets I do know that people speed through there to try to get through that traffic if you had a designated it was like a path and most people said okay you know what I don't have to speed through here I have a way to get all the way up I think it would eliminate a lot of the issues that they're seeing right now I mean I've been on that and people are running the stop sign because the goal is to see how many cars you can get ahead of right on a stero well and I also think having a designated path because we do have people that have figured out how to do this all on their loan and they're running in people's yards and going all the way up I mean I see it all the time I was thinking about Dan you made the comment in the earlier meeting I was listening about um the trailer on um Heavenly biscuit it's a very small piece of property this is the perfect example for some of these properties that are so small that there's some kind of I don't know if the city can do something for them because you can't re be build on there if there was a trailer on there for their business you know then you've got the this pathway that cuts through there there might be some give or take that we can do yeah that all comes down to economics yeah I know another another issue that I because season has really surprised us I think a bit with the traffic um issues that we've been facing because we didn't expect it because we knew a large portion of our population wasn't going to be here but we're they're coming from the mainland they're coming over every day so we have a lot of day Trippers um is that we we would have almost a seasonal traffic flow change in other words as particularly where right now the choke point is right at Margaritaville where you make the big curve and I know the county is planning to rebuild that road and God help us all when that's under underway um but at at some point if there's a transportation engineer involved in this that could say well we're going to Institute the seasonal traffic flow modification to help move traffic through that area uh a different way whether it's down Crescent and over and up Fifth and up off bridge that's the only way to get off the island you can't go around anymore and if you're going to go to the to the north and you have to go under the bridge and cut over and come through downtown I mean there's just some things we maybe an engineer could lay out for you and say well here's an option that might be helpful you Institute it when season starts you you kind of turn it off when season's over so people would have more free flow of of activity then until of course we're so busy in offseason that there is no season anymore it's all season yeah I think this roundabout is going to be an interesting the Dynamics are going to change once that's done so what what we have today is not going to be what we have two years from now true that starts in April and it's an F doot thing and they did a presentation for us uh they are calculating in season and and non-season and maybe uh if you'd like I could have him come and do a presentation for your group as well about that would be great yeah I'll contact yeah the Public Safety Committee had a lot or spent a lot of countless hours on that crosswalk and helping with the design and it fell on deaf ears yeah put it that unfortunately it felt on deaf ear we did too we felt felt like it our commas fell on De ears as well I just quick question for the procedure of your committee now that Tom will be attending and you've got somebody from the sheriff's office in the police department or I'm sorry Sheriff's Department do you get incident reports each week or each month from like what's where the burglaries were I I'd never heard about the Neptune before I mean all this sort of real on the ground stuff you know when I first moved here you know I was always fascinated when we was running for office that Dan was always talking about public safety and I didn't I didn't understand I was living on the south I like where are the public safety issues and I run into Scott Scott to know Scott Safford he he like KN knew the underbelly of the island like where all the bad stuff was going on thanks man and it was there I'm not I'm not saying he was I'm not running for I'm not saying he was responsible for it he was just aware of it but I guess my point is is if if but that kind of granular detail I think is very like in a local newspaper you see where the police calls are you see it in the paper people that people a lot of people just turn to that page I just think people would find it really interesting to see where the crime is what the crime is if there's crime on a weekly b or a monthly basis just to get a sense of where the fire runs are what what's going on what's Happening what what's Town staff seeing on the ground that kind of Intel I think is very interesting to people and it's interesting to me understand we don't we don't get those reports either by the way from Lee County shareff soty we don't get we don't get anything from them 2012 Avenue is a lot different than 2024 Avenue E I mean it's you know uh one thing I noticed uh from lcso on their website they you before the storm you could type in a stereo Boulevard and it would bring up every event that lcso responded to now you don't get that information anymore is that because of the hurricane or just lco or I mean I used to do that too I used to get an email every you could click on the island and there'd be dots all over and you can click and see you know burglary yeah Breakin slipp I don't know if they change their website and you find it somewhere else but you know I've looked a couple of times and you know not seeing what I used to see before the you guys try to find that could you guys try to look I mean that I always thought it was beneficial because we we could see what's going on by our hotel all the time you know what what the incidents were and I mean I think that we can we do not get that type of detail fire department gives us a little more detail like they break it down um a fire might be electrical they're running into a lot of of electrial fires stormed but on sheriffs I know that there was an event where there was an event at Times Square last week and and I a few people call and ask if I knew what was going on and I couldn't find any information anywhere what happened that' be good one of the things that I've noticed I'm I'm new to the committee and one of the things I've noticed is um education there's a lot of Ed ation that needs to happen to people that are on the island and and visitors that are here and I believe Jason at the at our next meeting we're going to have the Pio there and I believe that that's going to be a lot of help once we get that uh um relationship with the Pio with the town I think that'll help a lot um one thing that I'd be interested in not not so much this year but for next year assuming there's going to be more people you know all whether they're visitors or more residents on the island is we we know that there's that choke point down downtown from you know pretty much Avenue E down to Margaritaville um could you guys look at a study for maybe I I know when there's big like in Vegas or when you go to Marty or when there's big sporting events they put up barricades I I've heard good and bad both there's a there's a cost there's a a policing portion of it um you know take a take a look at possibly looking in into that especially in that area so we have done that you have and the reason we can't is because there's too many driveways it would be it wouldn't make any sense that's what we were told okay wow interesting because we want to barricades um from the base of the bridge to the first crosswalk to basically Farm people exactly where we want you to cross and then we wanted them from that first crosswalk by T Time Square all the way down to at that point it was toon Kai because they were running out that's what we had asked for and we were told no there was too many driveway yeah what about just in a in a micro section of from Margaritaville down to the first or second Drive is that feasible to even look at I mean it it those things work I mean especially like I said at at in New Orleans man you you're just you're not jumping over that thing cuz you we talked about a metal yep yeah just to guide the people to go down by where the Sandpiper they've got those fluorescent green those things are out right now to grow people to not walk over there so yeah pedestrian barricades have been used in a lot of different applications not only just uh the standalones the the the wire fencing um or would look like a metal fencing um you have to have cooperation so we have to have cooperation on two sides one the public has to cooperate and not jump over those things when we're talking about uh the new turnaround that was presented to us and they're coming up with a vegetative barrier um is it going to be a little one gallon plant that you can buy at you know Home Depot um in a little pot that they're going to plant there and take three years to get 3 feet high or they're going to come through and actually put a barrier and you all know that you know path the least resistance if you see an opening in a bush are you going to get 20 people flying through there is it actually going to be a physical barrier um we have the ability as what we still have around here to put up the plastic barriers as we move down U they almost look like a little guard rail type thing um that that does keep kind of people in their Lane but again without proper signage without proper education and enforcement those three items you're not going to get those steers I'm an old farmer from Wisconsin those those steers to kind of go down that path you you kind of need that one Bellow to go first and then everybody follows and and until you get a signage on the side sidewalk signage up above this is the way we need to proceed I think that all has to fit into the whatever kind of plan or solution you you're you're looking for for for whatever reason we begged the state when they were doing the foot of the bridge project to do some pedestrian guard rails and they they were just completely opposed to it they say they cars run into them they get dented and it just and the County's always been reticent to do the pest because of the driveway issue to me the The Pedestrian guard rails they're not going to you're always going to have 10 % of the Knuckleheads are going to jump over but 90% of the people are going to flow with that and I cannot understand why we can't get that done it's so frustrating but I I think it's worth pursuing I think what it comes down to at the end of the day after they do what they need to do we need to be vigilant and and and it's a public safety on on our on our public so that's where you make your Line in the Sand and say this is what we need to have but I think it gives us time to develop a plan and a and a viable solution a plan A and A B so when they come back and say nope hey how about this one you know I I've never been one for saying no so I'm I'm going to find a way and and and that's that's always kind of in our back of our mind now as we move forward uh is always having that second third fourth option available um so you know they're going to say no but this is why we need it it's a public safety thing so well just to give everyone a heads up I was just informed that we're about to lose power they're converting us over from our temporary generator to our FPL power and so there we may have to cut the meeting off here a little short but and he's got you brought it up yeah yeah that's good stuff we're not slowing FPL down we're you know NOP so we we I told him to keep going they're going to shut it down at some point within the next two hours but that could be in the next 10 minutes or in the next 120 Minutes we think it's going to be in the next 30 minutes so then it only be down a little bit but it could interrupt a lot of stuff so we have hotpots for staff but you just need to be mindful so won't be long okay make one more quick comment yes so um we did take some stuff on ourselves as well by the way uh we asked the county for putting some barrier stanions up at the intersection where Fifth Street is and San Carlos there where the turn is on on the turn we got no response so we went to our PW people and said can we put those in and he said they'll be there tomorrow they got put up tomorrow they're into the ground they're they're adhesive to the ground there you'll see them those yellow markers that go up the stanions that is stopped our U-turn work tremendously it stopped our pedestrian Crossings there tremendously and it didn't take that much didn't cost us much uh County DOT looked at them and kept moving didn't say anything So to that it's something that we can May where they came from and it was a safety issue so that's why we did it perfect can we do that all along as stero second that if we have to well we can try unless if they're you know path the least resistance they don't say anything yeah that's right I did that yeah all through high school oh I'm sure there's a story behind that or more than one right there you are exactly I am does anyone have anything else no I think we got a lot of good information today I feel we did and we have I feel we have a direction now perfect I'm glad to hear that Tom's going to be part of the meeting and nothing against you Jason but he's that's awes you got a lot of other things going on a lot of questions and it's nice to know that you say oh we've handled that or it's in the works it's in the works so you know we don't beat a dead horse cool with the exchange of any of our you got to be you know the hey you know the rules you got to Old I can't stand up that much then keep your mouth shut you you can always reach out to us anytime regardless of who who you need if you need a question answered uh Andy myself Tom honestly yes we're busy we're never too busy for the town we work for the town so that's our motto that's the way we run it every single day from the time we walk in till the time we leave um we work for you so you have a problem you have a question reach out maybe need Tom's cell phone yes I'm going to drop off my card everybody and I will person as well we better make sure Andy's okay with that first he'll be fine Charter says you're supposed to go through Andy but he'll be fine if he says it's okay it's okay okay right Nancy anything else no thank you we appreciate it yes thank you go ahead John move to Jour second Motion in second we are adjourned at 12:30