##VIDEO ID:qJV7ZkAkah0## may we abide by the rules we've established those of trust fellowship and ethics and may we place service above self and all of our daily Endeavors may we always test ourselves in our efforts to be sure they are the truth for all good for all people and for the benefit of all of mankind and may we provide peace and understanding to all amen please call the RO councilman EMB Barrison here councilwoman Francois here councilman karazi here mayor Kramer here councilman Oni jaka here Deputy Mayor basnik presid councilwoman uden here councilman vasella here councilman wri here on to item number five on the agenda copies of the agenda are there by the clerk uh first Commendation and Proclamation is the Patriotic Matthew Day Proclamation by myself come on cute that kid is adorable whereas Matthew a dedicated young citizen of Franklin Township has been a Franklin student since kindergarten and is affectionately known by his peers as Mr USA for his outstanding patriotism and love for the American flag and whereas Matthew's passion for the flag was first noticed at the tender age of six and he is well known for his unwavering commitment to honoring the flag symbol often reminding others freedom is not free and Matthew's deep respect for the American flag has earned him the trust and admiration of his classmates who frequently bring him tatter Flags knowing he will properly and respectfully dispose of them and whereas Matthew has taken it upon himself to replace the American flags at various public sites around the township including the JFK Memorial whenever they become tattered or worn and whereas Matthew has replaced 16 Flags around town using his own funds ensuring that the American flag is always treated with respect the respect that it deserves and whereas Matthew's Community Spirit goes beyond his love for the flag as he also takes time to visit nursing home residence with his beloved dog Henry spreading joy and care to those who need it most and whereas Matthew's patriotism extends to his personal life as he enjoys wearing patriotic clothes and has a deep appreciation for the music of Doris St and Frank Sinatra embodying the essence of the American culture and spirit and whereas Matthew at just 8 years old has shown an extraordinary sense of Duty and love for his country and Community serving as an example of what it means to be a true patriot now therefore I mayor Philip Kramer along with the township Council of the township of Franklin to hereby Proclaim October 88th 2024 as patriotic Matthew day in honor of Matthew's Remar remarkable dedication to our community and the values of patriotism freedom and service we encourage all residents of Franklin to join us in celebrating Matthew's inspiring contributions to and reflect on the importance of honoring and respecting our nation's symbols congratulations mat and now Matthew could you lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all where his mom come on up want to say word um Matthew teaches everyone he meets about the FL flag and what it represents and he uh he wants to be uh the president all thank you everybody thank you thank you here's the proclamation and I'm just glad he's 8 years old and gives me 10 years to buff up on my resume before he can run for mayor you have something to say that whenever time you leave a flag on the floor um you always have to pick it up so you can be kind to the flag and be respectful to the flag and and always treat um the flag with respect and kindness these are my friends from um conly Road school and um one is in um my another class one is with another another class and she is in my class first her name is Evelyn Harry and Charlie yes sure [Applause] next good evening everyone I don't know if there is anybody from the senior citizens committee or the club if you are here please come forward to join us um this is going to be a a proclamation about agism but before that I'd like to make a short statement talk louder talk louder you can hear yeah yeah I got to got a closer thanks so this past Friday unfortunately we learned that one of the long-term servant of our community passed away Miss Vivian cell who volunteered as the chair of senior citizen committee and president of senior citizen Club no longer is Among Us she was a lifetime resident of Franken Township and held many positions serving the community we are grateful for her years of service and she will be missed so let us uh have a moment of silence in her memory please thank you uh by the way for those who wish to offer the last visitation her visitation will take place from 2: to 4:00 p.m. and 7 to 9:00 p.m. October 9 which is tomorrow at the gleon funeral house located at 1360 Hamilton Street in Somerset now I would like to uh read the proclamation about agism whereas agism refers to the stereotype that is how we think Prejudice how we feel and discrimination how we act towards others based on age and whereas there are an estimated 13,000 to 15,000 older adults in the township of Franklin older than 60 years age who are impacted by agism and whereas agism toward older adults affects their Health and Longevity Financial well-being and the economy of the township of Franklin and whereas preventing aism is in education employment housing culture and Health Care will benefit all and whereas recognizing that is up to all of us to ensure that older adults are respected and portrayed as capable competent effective and valued in all areas of society and whereas agism agism awareness and preventing agism is beneficial to all citizens of the township of Franklin by improving the quality of life within the township now therefore we councilman Alex karazi and mayor Philip Kramer do hereby Proclaim October 9th 2024 as agism Awareness Day in the township of Franklin thank you again I will present this to um uh the senior citizen committee during our next meeting and uh remember all of us one day will get old although we are there already so please be mindful of agism thank you Mr May um I don't have my agenda but I believe the next is breast cancer awareness Kimberly franois so come on up Dorothy Reid and the chairwoman of The Advisory Board of Health can you want to come up so we we all know that October is Breast Cancer Awareness Month and it's an important month not only in Franklin Township but throughout the United States and the world so I'm going to read this Proclamation and I ask the advisory cheer woman to come up and also Dorothy because she represents sister to sister which is a breast cancer awareness and support organization so let me read the proclamation whereas breast cancer is the most most commonly diagnosed cancer among women worldwide impacting millions of lives every year with one in eight women being diagnosed with this disease in their lifetime whereas breast cancer affects not only those diagnosed but also their families friends and communities creating a need for widespread awareness education and support for individuals and families facing this Challenge and where it's early detection including self- exams regular mammograms and other screenings play a critical role in improving survival rates and treatment outcomes and whereas tremendous strides have been made in breast cancer research prevention and treatment leading to higher survival rates but we must continue to support scientific research to find a cure develop new therapies and improve the quality of life for those living with breast cancer and whereas advocacy organizations and Community groups like sisterto sister healthc care providers work tirelessly to spread awareness offer educational resources and support those battling breast cancer highlighting the importance of solidarity in this fight and whereas Breast Cancer Awareness Month in October is an opportunity for individuals families communities and organizations to come together raise awareness and support ongoing efforts to eradicate breast cancer now therefore we our mayor Philip Kramer and Kimberly Francois to hereby Proclaim October 2024 as Breast Cancer Awareness Month in the township of Franklin and we urge all citizens to join in supporting breast cancer survivors encouraging regular screening supporting research and educating the public about the importance of early detection together let us work towards a future where no one loses their lives to breast cancer so you want to say something thank you so much Kimberly and I thank the council here um Kimberly I thank Carl I thank mayor Kramer um I think you all know me if you haven't been to our walk and our events I'm sure Kimberly have asked you for donations for our organization so I thank the council and Franklin Township for always supporting Breast Cancer Awareness Month what we do is bring education awareness and financial support to women that's going through breast cancer treatment that's our mission and that's what we do every year we've been in existence since 2000 which we're 24 years old and if you know of anyone that's going through breast cancer especially if they're alone please get our contact number contact us because those are the women we serve and we thank you so much thank you I want to thank the council and and Council fres and and also May Kramer for for this um the statistics that you mentioned one in8 I have never said this publicly I am one in8 2015 I was diagnosed so so this this Proclamation means an awful lot to me and I I'm I'm I'm glad that Franklin is is is making the awareness um out there and trying to get more people diagnosed in treatment along those lines I also want to um share with you something that uh councilman U Kazi and I are were in discussion about is that the county offers a cancer survivorship program um and it was offered in Franklin but the the there was not much of a response so where we're going to be working to try to get that program kickstarted again so I encourage uh anyone to spread the word about that once we're able to get some dates set and that will be a great um I think it's a six- week program where there'll be support and encouragement and also networking and resources so that as you mentioned so people don't have to be alone in doing that so thank you I just want to say keep in mind too that men also get breast cancer and I know there's a paper out of n the Franklin reporter if you look on the front page myself self is there in Bill grippo and he actually tells his story his brother passed away of breast cancer and he tells his story how since it was in his family they encouraged him to get a mammogram and it was not a fun thing so if you pick up the paper you can click on the QR code and you can hear his story and testimony about men do get breast cancer also um I think awareness is extremely important with breast cancer because that awareness can lead to early detection uh if you know what to do and interestingly enough my father-in-law had breast cancer and some of his tissue was used to un to un disclose the bracka 2 Gene uh By Dana Farber and uh um it's if a man feels a lump in his breast don't ignore it that's true the two of you need to get together and talk yes absolutely thank you everyone thank [Applause] you okay next on the agenda is count is a public discussion the motion to open so moved seconded moveed then seconded all in favor say I I oppos say nay motion is carried for open for public discussion 5 minutes in person no yielding of time may only come up once please state your name and address uh Benjamin guy 35 patent Drive um just want to make everybody aware um coming in the month of October uh October 26 uh there'll be event on uh Hamilton Street um the a uh Halloween or Halloween on Hamilton um it's going to be from October 26 on October 26 from 12 to 3 um right by where the normal place is unless there's a reason to move it at all but as at this specific time frame in John Plaza is where will be will be done so make your arrangements to actually be there to actually uh tell all the friends tell a friend to actually come out and uh be a part of this so uh one of the things I do want to um want to bring up cuz uh cuz I know it's going to go hot and heavy and I had to sort of wrot it up on the in the wrong form yesterday in the Hamilton Street meeting but um because of um things that are going on and it has nothing to do with Franklin but it is a border cities things that are happening in New Brunswick that's going to trickle over into Franklin so uh one of the things is there going to be uh two demolitions of two housing complexes that are going to come up in the next um I think in the next year or so on Route 27 that's going to get C cause congestion because of uh things that are going on and we share the same Housing Authority between both both places because it's called so calleded that I think the uh the vill and also right place got served where the residents are going to be uh moved out of that area during that period of time frame so um because there's families that are in both sides of the fence I'm just making people aware so that's going to be a displacement of certain affordable housing needs and affordable housing needs in the area because of you know because of those people being displaced so the students that just got to made aware of it some of them in the high schools and you know they're made to move out of the area had to move to essis County and Union because there's not enough affordable housing needs in the area to actually you know serve this type of population that wants to stay in this area so I'm just bringing to the town council's attention because I know we're going through an evaluation of where we're at I just want to know you know where we stand with uh certain things that we're doing for our housing uh Housing Authority vouchers and uh how we're going to be servicing that because I know it's going to be a need in the Central Jersey area not on Franklin I'm not putting on Franklin but again if Franklin's not going to do it I think I think Franklin should push up to the county to start having that conversation about where these people are going to go because if we're not going to step up and we're not building it I think that you know saying we should make the advisement and saying if we're saying that we're at we're at our quota with what we're doing we want to make sure that you know saying some of these residents that are long-term family members that are here have some other places to go and advocate for them so that was one thing second thing is as far as um far as opportunities in the area um one of the things I always want to make sure is that uh if we are going through through transition with job opportunities in this area because we started a program in a um program in the school district and some of these kids are might be able to do some of the demolition contracts and get some of these construction contracts that are coming up in Middle County I think we should be writing recommendation letters through the school district and everybody else because we want we try to get these people into involved in these type of programs these are opportunities to build these type of centers at all so if we're looking for residents to actually get out of poverty or get opportunities with mid-level jobs these are the right opportunities that we need to advocate for them to get opport to get their first type of jobs in the area because as they build these complexes a lot of times these developers or anybody else don't hire for from within but if we have our own program and we have people that we can actually qualify to get them these are type of opportunities they can get their first jobs off and feed their families off of so I'm bringing this up because we need to be aware of our resident neighbors whether that is in Hillsboro Bound Brook New Bruns or wherever else or presway these type of developments that are there we need to be advocating for our own to be a part of these programs if we're going to be trying to reinvest in people H people in Workforce Development programs so these are the type of opportunities I'm just making you guys aware of so that we can do that and go forward and then the last portion is that I also would like to say um because it was brought up last night about uh about Zoo uh about health health being a priority here I just would like to see whether or not Zo Falls can when they're coming into Franklin just have a little bit more presence and have a little bit more advocacy maybe have a spotlight on a regular basis every quarter to talk about programming that they're doing for outreach here so that Resident is are aware of what they're trying to do I know they're doing a lot of stuff in a in the school district but because they're going to be community and families I think that she they should perform up another type of presence out here also so that is my time thank you anyone else wishing to speak Marlon Quan 28 J's corner um thank you uh for allowing us to speak something uh as you're aware um there was a project on Cotton Tail that was just approved by the zoning board um for a subdivision and an increase in warehouse space um as you know uh many residents in this town are concerned with um the influx of too many warehouses particularly the large box warehouses and what is particularly concerning is that this Cotton Tail project was to subdivide to create much larger warehouses not the typical storage supply house warehouses but big box warehouses what they call cubes what they call uh distribution centers um and we as a town don't require anybody to come in and specifically announce what their plans are so by the time that there's approvals we have absolutely no idea what's coming in until it's it's done um so it's very uh disconcerting that um this project got um approved considering the fact that this um Council um was very good at uh providing ordinances to say no more warehouses but for exceptions and and yet we have the very first one that comes up approved by the zoning board as an exception um in addition to that there's a couple of other large warehouses um that are um that are being litigated now and I'm not talking about B9 at all um but there's a project by MCS Franklin LLC this is a horse farm on Weston Road it's it's presented an application is in and um right now it's in aan because um they're they're um against uh certain ordinances that were passed um um that uh would be detrimental to them but what you don't understand is and you may not know is that they're requesting a access an easement through another property and that easement isn't even being considered even though it's clear in their application it wasn't even considered to be a rejection of of any sort um and and that to me is disconcerting so I'd like to know from Council what it is that we as residents need to do other than to protest and bring out hundreds of people to say is enough is enough and to understand what the process is now that it's no longer a planning board's purview but in the zoning board's purview what is it that will allow them to approve a project rather than to disap approve a project we already have too many warehouses now I see that there's a a uh ordinance for cannabis dispensaries and the verbiage includes a maximum number of retail cannabis facilities why can't we do the same thing with cubes Warehouse cubes so I asked that of the Council I beg of you to consider doing things that will really make a difference in this town uh with with that in mind particularly since we're doing a traffic study it's we're spending money taxpayer money to do a traffic study and we already know that at least 10 have been identified 10 intersections are overworked and over congested and now we're approving more warehouses thank you thank you anyone else Jan Brant 22 Bryant Court hi everybody haven't seen you guys in a while thanks for all you do um I had a couple things to say uh first of all there is um beautiful sidewalk now on Schoolhouse Road um that um was made recently over the summer they did um a sidewalk um however if you walk on that sidewalk there's lots of grass okay so um my question was I think Bob was giving me an answer ahead of time um is that it's you you can't really walk down it because the grass is like this High you know and it's it's kind of dangerous to walk on that side so I just wanted to find out who was responsible to mowing that and um and when would it be done um my second question was um with the traffic study that um the person before me Marlin was referring to I thought that there was something coming up for the community to come to discuss October I think it was um October 9th I think Wednesday tomorrow or 8th um so I was just wondering if that was happening that I I heard that there was going to be Community input for that traffic study um but um for Community to come out but I haven't heard anything since so I don't know if that's um if somebody's keeping on top of making sure that that keeps going along but that was supposed to be a a community thing and I know I haven't heard anything about that um the third thing I wanted to mention was um just to piggy back on to what Marlin said um there was some discussion at um where we live at just about this other warehouse and a lot of people cuz they think that we might have more information than the regular resident over at Canal but they were just wondering you know what um they thought there was an ordinance that there wasn't going to be any more warehouses so just um I guess just some feedback about that I heard that that warehouse they had to make a swap and give some land or buy some land so I was wondering if anybody knows information about that that um I heard that was information and I guess somebody was saying how maybe their application was in before the warehouse ordinance however when I looked at that application it looked like they had wrote a note that their application actually was not complete before the um before the the warehouse ordinance of no or warehouses so um I know that um I guess some exception was made um I'm not sure but if somebody knows something about that information and um and the last thing I wanted to say and um Marlin was talking about that uh piece of property that's on um metler and um you know in the back the horse farm and what something that's interesting and I know um that some people especially Mr Dominic care like refuted that um the the warehouse that they were thinking of over at B9 Schoolhouse was not a high Cube Warehouse however if you read uh b31 Schoolhouse um application and that was approved way back when but if you read the traffic report on that application Dynamic traffic did that report for that traffic and they're talking about future traffic and dynamic also did the report for B9 and the horse farm and what they say in that report is that there's going to be down the road there's going to be a 860,000 square ft Warehouse on um schoolhouse metlers and what the future traffic would be and that it would be a high Cube warehouse and um and I know that that was refuted in the past that that wasn't what was planned but if you go back to Dynamic traffic report in the b31 application you will see where the traffic engineer who probably was also doing B9 speaks about this 860,000 ft warehouse and I'm just wondering with the planner and with whatnot like they read all those reports and they know that that was supposed to be one big project and I guess they're breaking it down but it's just kind of upsetting that um warehouses are still like I'm worried that the zoning board has now set a precedent that they could approve warehouses and it's just going to get worse for all of us again and I thought this problem was over thanks a lot thank you anyone else Terry Thorson 18 Leed Drive uh I know about the uh traffic study there was supposed to be a community meeting tomorrow however I had an email from maril yesterday saying that that was going to be postponed because the steering committee is going to have a meeting tomorrow instead and get a more comprehensive report to give to the public so but I'm really here because Saturday and Sunday we're going to have the 14th annual Somerset County Journey Through the past and we're going to feature in Franklin the white K garon House on South Middle Bush Road and it will be Saturday and Sunday Saturday from 10:00 in the morning to 5: in the afternoon Sunday noon to 4: and you can drop in anytime you want tours will be ongoing completely we're going to give away native seeds for people to plant which we got from uh the garden that's down at van wickle I harvested the the uh seeds from down there and we're going to be giving those away so people will have naturalized Gardens and attract pollinat um if you want to know the other 30 houses that are going to be available it's on the County's website you just go to Journey Through the past suet County and they will list all of them and they will have Maps if you want to do Northern suet county middle sub Somerset County or Southern and there are contests there are things to collect it's it's a fun weekend and you can do one you can do as many as you can fit in in a day whatever you want to do and it's also great for kids to see the the history of the towns in central New Jersey so I do have some fliers for you oh we also have um another event in The Meadows coming up on the 18th of October it's Witchy Woman and it's about um witches and um I went to it last year it was a lot of fun the there is if you want to wear a costume you can I won the costume contest last year so uh I will not be dressing up this year because that wouldn't be fair but anyway I'd like to give these out to you so you can see while she's doing that the next person can come up in place to speak hi uh Donna Ley 12 L HST Drive Somerset New Jersey I just want to again thanks the thank the council and thank the mayor for both proclamations regarding the other Proclamation which is ages and awareness day that that Council karazi uh declared uh I also want to say that Franklin is very lucky that we have a stigma-free council that started earlier this year and one of the subgroups of that stigma-free council is an agism awareness subgroup so I do want to encourage to get the word out because we're TR in the I'm I'm chairing that and so one of the things that we're trying to do is trying to promote agism awareness as well as trying to develop intergenerational programs uh and so if anyone knows if anybody who's interested the next meeting is going to be October 16th right in the uh right in the senior center here on deat so uh and the information will be posted on the county we excuse me on the township website and safy Ken's in charge of of that group as long as as well as with philis spiels so thank you thank you Alex Strauss 285 haset way registered Democrat who received a campaign mailer last year from mayor Kramer stating that warehouses will no longer be a permitted use there was no asterisk that said it's was going to go before the zoning board so I guess I'm wondering now okay chairman Thomas at the meeting and others as well Mr Healey said that no one's at the meeting no residents so in that case I guess the coast is clear well you know we we did show up to a lot of meetings and we thought in a way the the default setting was pretty much no warehouse but apparently that's not the case I guess I'd have to ask is the township uh is the Township in default bankrupt we need money is the Board of Education default and bankrupt um this is what's happening now it seems that every single Warehouse unless you could fill the Board of Education offices uh every single Warehouse will be approved and that's the way it is in Franklin right mayor Kramer anyone else wishing to speak see no one else mayor a motion to close a public portion second move then second it all in favor say I post say no for since we have so much litigation for all things Warehouse let me call on our Township attorney mayor I just wanted this there's a couple of things one we in fact made warehouses not a permitted use in any Zone in the township that doesn't mean that people can't file applications to the zoning board and and I'm I'm not quite sure what that has to do with whether or not the Board of Education or the township is bankrupt but it certainly is is kind of what the law is in the state of New Jersey which is people have a right to go and make their case of course making them uh not permitted uses makes it infinitely harder for people to prove the use variance standard to to um to to get a variance to allow a use that's not permitted in a zone so that that's obviously what you know the most that council could possibly do um so that's the first thing the second thing is I just wanted to comment mayor on the fact that there is somebody said well there's a cannabis ordinance tonight and it regulates the number of cannabis licenses why can't you do that with warehouses well the reason is is because the legislature of the state of New Jersey has authorized municipalities specifically to to um regulate the number of cannabis licenses um it actually gave us two options one was to Bar them completely and the second was to allow them but regulate the number of licenses so the reason why we can do that is because we're authorized specifically by a legislative act to do that we are not authorized by legislative act to do that with regards to any particular other land use um and of course the Cannabis licenses have to deal with the fact that they are licensed by the state warehouses are of course not licensed by the state um they're just uses that are that are in our in our subject to our zoning ordinance so I think those those were the two issues uh just as an um as an update mayor as you as you indicated all of the ordinance that we've adop we've adopted far with regards to warehouses are all subject to L are all currently in litigation so there's there's not much else to say about that other than the fact that they've all been challenged and there that process is working its way through the courts including by the way including the approval of the B9 Warehouse or the the the denial of the B9 Warehouse that is also in court and and and mcs2 which was the specific property mentioned that is currently being utilized as a horse farm is one of those loss suits um that you're speaking of correct that is correct and are we is there any means by which we can prevent someone from going to the zoning board no just like you can't prevent somebody from going to court those are both both of those things are well the court is guaranteed by the Constitution and so is really zo is the application to the zoning board because all of our Authority uh for land use flows to us from the Constitution to the municipality through the state legislature and if I understand the bankruptcy question properly I think what the speaker was supposing is that we're allowing the building of a warehouse so we can get more money that's not how taxes work we set the amount of money to be raised by taxes and then we collect that and different properties are assessed a different am amount and that goes into the formula to figure out how much they will pay but we don't we don't get more money because there's more warehouses it saves you money because the warehouses um take up some of take up the slack and let you spend less money and your taxes but taxes is not a money for us is not a motivation for building warehouses and mayor if I can just add and it's also it's not um one of the evidential factors considered by a zoning board when they consider an application for a use variant the fact that it's a better rable than what's permitted in the zone is not it's not ADM it's not an admissible or or or valid consideration for the zoning board uh councilwoman Udin did you want to tackle the sidewalk thing actually I do you want me to handle that because that's something that no know she had worked on it but well no I'm saying I in particular I have all of the details if you want to touch on it first feel free Mr you can you can give the update I'll chime in okay so the the multi-purpose path that was constructed on Schoolhouse Road was an obligation of the developer who developed summerfields that pathway is not complete and has not been accepted by the town so it's still considered an active construction zone and while I can agree that the grass needs to be gut cut and the developer has been instructed to cut the grass I had a conversation with the engineering department today to have the inspector once again tell them that they needed to cut the grass along that portion that's where the woods are along the pathway um ultimately it will be the obligation of the homeowners association of summerfields to cut the grass but until Public Service relocates the guy wires on the utility poles that are over top of the pathway that pathway cannot be considered complete and the township will not accept it as part of the uh approval of the obligations that the planning board imposed on the developer when the uh summer fields was originally proposed so that's the answer on the pathway and uh you said you sent an email or you called No I actually the inspector who's responsible for that particular uh construction project our inspector is uh has notified the developer directly and I actually have a meeting with the developer on Thursday and I'll be able to reiterate that with them at that time okay and and just let me know what's going on so we can inform and I actually received a couple um other constituents also asking for the same update so thank you for keeping up with this well I know it looks complete it's not done until it's done so then it will become the homeowner responsibility councilman EMB Barrison did you want to talk about the traffic study or was that covered no I think uh yeah I was going to cover the same information that you talked about so the to tomorrow the 9th was a community meeting that was changed to a steering committee meeting which I will be attending and um I think the community meeting is going to come later okay does anyone have any other things they want to question for Mr ver Locker about a question that was asked okay I don't know of any residential developments apartments or anything that's being demolished in Franklin no that was not in Franklin he's talking about the New Brunswick homes projects across Route 27 that are thought so we have no federal housing absolutely no en vement or or authority or inter local agreement or anything so basically in Franklin we're not demolishing any it was public housing that was built in the 1940s and 50s no I know what you're talking about and that's what I thought but I wanted to confirm with you so in Frankl we're only adding affordable housing units we're not demolishing anything correct okay thank you there's no further conversation from the audience no I'm sorry um I don't know what's going on here uh as we're waiting just a question for councilman barison for the traffic study um that's now going to the staring Community has there been a revised date for the public meeting yet or that's on hold until you guys meet um tomorrow has hasn't been advertised hasn't been advertised yeah it's not been announced yet okay thank you it'll be determined after the steering committee meets and decides when they can then have the public okay um all right did anyone else have any other answers the only the only thing I wanted to address Mr Mayor is you know there was this so the zoning board has granted a use variance for a particular Warehouse application on on Western Canal Cotton Tail in that that area right there and while I I I'm not this is not a commentary on on whether or not it should have been approved or shouldn't have been approved it was a use variance that had an application in front of the zoning board and the zoning board granted that application but I think there was somewhat of a misrepresentation earlier in that this is a 51,000 ft² warehouse and the zoning board imposed upon the applicant a condition in which it it indicated that it could not be used as a fulfillment center so it it's not a fulfillment center the zoning board specifically uh added that as a condition of their approval um and it is a 51,000 ft Warehouse with nine loading docks not a distribution uh not a a a fulfillment center as it was I think character characterized characterized as so just want to add that because that's the that's the accurate deection of what was approved okay uh we're on to item number eight counil comments and reports I'll start with you Dr Ki thank you Mr Mayor um I just wanted to excuse me one second sorry go ahead I I I apologize no problem I just want to remind Council we have two Council discussion items and the Cannabis um ordinance which is probably going to have some discussion with it so please economize your Council comments sounds good Mr Mayor I will keep it for 15 seconds and mine is uh yes uh I just want to let everybody know that that September 15th to October 15th is the Hispanic Heritage Month and U we are very grateful to the Hispanic community in our Township in our our uh State as a nation we know they have made and they continue to make tremendous amount of uh contrib ution to our country and to our community and we are very grateful to them so just remember that's you know another week or so left so if you have an opportunity to participate in any of the events that highlights the Hispanic heritage please take advantage of it thank you Mr Mayor thank you councilman onlyi jaka okay mayor thank you um in somet gland that is where I live traffic and uh um parking spot has been a very very tough thing since I moved down there 19 uh 200 16 no parking spot at all most especially dinner Lane on the other on one side of the dinner Lane dinner Lane is where we have the chain on it on the other side of it there's no you can't park there because it's a an emergency parking Zone mhm so a couple of years ago what they did was just to Mark White on the cup on the C SC side of it and it has been a problem up till now if I when I go home now from this meeting there have be no parking space so I want to find out is there anything we can do just to Mark the floor Mark the the road so that we can limit the parking area for to individuals because because of it they Park indiscriminate on that particular within that I know everything I'm talking is within the the the development so your roads are all private roads not public roads yes so it's a matter of the homeowners association not the township so we can't do Township cannot do anything about it no okay okay mayor thank you thank you councilman embarrassing uh thank you Mr Mayor real quick uh shout out to uh uh Safi for putting out uh a a nice show uh on October 5th the cultural art show in the Senor Center uh probably about 30 35 uh local artists came and displayed their work it was a nice crowd we gave them free food so that was a good event um good job safy and then um on the 30th September uh uh our uh own councilwoman shipin hosted a town hall on government 101 well attended event uh lots of people came and learned uh quite a bit so I enjoyed the township manager answers and a lot of information by the other officials so that was a good event and last but but not least on the Saturday on this Saturday the 12th we have the Diwali event um as usual at the Franklin High School uh starts around 5:00 uh we invite everyone to come and enjoy the uh celebrations and the festivities and the vendors and the food that's all I got mayor thank you councilwoman Francois I'm going to piggyback there is the trunker or treat on October 26 over at John's Plaza from 12: to 3 for our young little kitties to get come and get free candy have a costume party get free prizes have a dance contest It's a Wonderful event it gets bigger and bigger every year and I really enjoy it the other thing I want to say is um my heart goes out to the people that have been impacted by Hurricane Helen and those that are going to be impacted potentially by the pending hurricane Milton we have a lot to be grateful for here in Franklin Township I know there are some things that are going on like warehouses but I'm sure some of the people that are living down there would give their right and left arm to live here where we live and and enjoy the quality of life that we have here in Franklin so my prayers go out to all those people thank you Mr Mayor thank you councilman vasella thank you and there's still I believe a lot of people missing in North Western North Carolina which is justes been that area and it's just horrendous uh but hopefully they'll be found safe and hopefully this approaching hurricane will have minimal damage and Carnage uh bunch of meetings I'm not going to get a lot of detail but Public Works meeting tonight a couple of uh points on mentioned we actually for the first time in a long time um because fortunately we're at full Staffing with our engineering uh staff and other um support staff so we actually uh did all of the paving we scheduled uh it's it is common practice and understandable uh a certain amount usually gets kicked to the spring uh happens a lot towns but we were able to and uh that's great four I think $4 million worth um we have plenty to do next year and we already got a jump on that and got our list so we're getting hopefully keep up that uh good flow and good scheduling um anyway uh we also have meter replacement program I think we've done a th000 out of a 7,800 if my numbers are correct and should get the rest done next year had a a housing U Board of I'm on a Board of Trustees a housing group that handles a lot of affordable housing issues and um we're hoping everybody gets the information there's lawsuits relevant to the town's knowing their exact commitment which we should hopefully have lots of information in January might get bumped a little bit hopefully not but um things seem to be a lot clearer than the last couple rounds of affordable housing because I think last time I dragged out for a couple years before from the deadline we actually got our our requirements but we are looking good in General in our region there's a need for more but Franklin is is looking very good in that in that um area uh congratulations I almost called him the the the flag kid Matthew um sticks in my name as the flag kid and that's just fantastic I'm kind of into maps and geography and and flags and that stuff and uh I didn't start quite that young though so congratulations to him um keep up the good work Matthew uh a few other meetings I don't a lot of detail we had the uh Hamilton meeting the main thing they're working on is their is their budget for next year because they have ideas of things they want to do and we had a we have a special assessment uh Town's been helping them with a lot of big budget items uh in the last year or two but um they'll figure out if they want to have an additional assessment for the uh commercial owners on that street um and it's really just the main points and like the mayor said we have some other issues but Trunk or Treat councilman franu mentioned it I will councilwoman mentioned it I got the the flyer so just give a little bit more of a plug anyway thank you mayor thank you councilwoman Shea Udin thank you uh I just want to also congratulate Mr USA Matthew day um we need more young leaders like him to do great work for our community so very pleased to meet him I've saw his story and um was really happy that we were able to bring him here today and provide him accommodation so thank you mayor for putting that together um we already touched up on the traffic study dates the HOA um Public Works councilman Balan mentioned it fire prevention meeting is scheduled this Thursday so more to come on that um lastly I I had uh done the municipal government 101 town hall meeting which councilman EMB Barrison was attended thank you so much for being there um we received great feedback because as one resident said these sessions helped him navigate people to get their questions clarified quickly by Township administrators I want to thank our um departments that were there Mr VN locker from the township manager um our director of public safety director Q um Township Clerk and Marie director of planning Mark Healey construction official Barry Wilbur I think it was really greatly attended I think more sessions like this help um residents understand where they need to ask questions where they need to go what the roles and services are um is it's one of those like basic like what we say oh we should know but it gets overwhelming when they're coming in and trying to figure things out so I was happy to um Host this meeting for the residents and we had a great engagement of audience of just questions that they wanted to ask and get anwers so thank you for um making this meeting possible and and and uh attending it um I think that's all I have thank you thank you councilman Wright thank you Mr Mayor uh real quick the sisters network uh that's a very good program uh I think we should have a men's day where we take our mother's sisters daughter significant other to a breast cancer screening day and I know it's kind of wishful thinking but that's something we ought to do because they're the ones that suffer now as a as a cancer survivor uh this is very important to me um I take my wife my daughters I suggest the daughters but I take my wife um for a screening because you just never know when it pops up how it pops up um I caught mine my little cancer bug the doctor just felt like testing me and there it was so it's important to actually go to get this done done uh I believe we were talking about the contract for uh Hamilton Street for the traffic study that we we have coming up I believe that's what you were referring to but I asked the township manager to do that because we have a lot of buildings coming up on Hamilton Street and I wanted to make sure that parking uh the movement of traffic the safety in that area um was to the point where we would feel comfortable because I live in the fourth ward not far from Hamilton Street because my barber shop is there and I can walk there uh we need to make sure that we're doing the best that we can for the residents of Franklin Township in particular the residents of the fourth ward the um affordable housing uh two things on that one uh as a member of the Redevelopment agency um in the fourth ward we are working on affordable housing uh because we see the need for it and it was contracted so we're working with that Miss France was on the committee with us um longtime member and we hope to as we go along provide that now through a land use committee uh we have definitely put forth and I believe the Mr M we put the contract out correct I so it'll be on the agenda for the next council meeting for award yes so we we've gotten our proposal recommendation to move forward uh at the next council meeting with that uh consultant a work so we're working on that issue um and again uh I think we hired the the best one out there so uh we're working on that issue to get it solved um now that takes care of everything I have there um except the discussion we're going to have up coming up on the Cannabis but other than that we're good to go Mr Mayor thank you deputy mayor uh thank you mayor uh the last 10 years were the hottest 10 years on record ever recorded the gulf is the hottest ever recorded and I do extend my uh deepest hopes for the people of Florida and sympathies quite frankly for what they're enduring and all the way through the eastern coast but um there's no doubt that this is human induced we are part of a problem that we can solve um and part of that solution is actually trying to present prevent the loss of lives so offshore wind uh that's responsibly developed solar electrifying our vehicles in the township the different initiatives we have um will help save lives and I think the best way we can memorialize the people that are perishing and have perished is to do something to prevent that in the future for our children and grandchildren and so I use that as a bridge to talk about energy aggregation which the voters of Franklin supported um and the idea being that Franklin can work with a a thirdparty energy supplier to provide 10% cleaner energy which helps prevent climate change and clean up our air saves lives uh at 5% less of a cost than our current um Market is uh through the psng bill is allowing but unfortunately right now the Market's not um able to provide our sort of goals so we're looking at the beginning of next year 2025 as our next Target date to able to go out and get the benefits so we can actually reduce the amount of pollution and prevent catastrophes not any one particular storm but the average of them more intense and more frequent these are um you know lifetime storms hundred-year storms happening one right after the other the average homeowner SE a 100-year storm in their 30-year mortgage right because of the way we're we're doing things and we can change that um but we have to take uh action so that the voters have sent us a referendum we're we're still monitoring that I want to thank the township manager and Gable Associates for kind of keeping an eye on the market so um there is hope at at the end of what is dismal um but we need to do everything we can to protect people now and be resilient for what we're seeing thank you um I Echo everything said about the hurricane in Florida and the other several Southern States uh that have been affected uh Franklin day so two things about Franklin day um the first the the rain exceeded the forecast if I knew it was going to rain that much I would have asked the manager to cancel Franklin day however if I knew that many people would show up despite the rain I would have asked the manager to continue with Franklin day people were there they were happy they were circulating and the vendors uh did uh fine not they not as much as they'd like but they weren't hurt by it so um I was glad Franklin day was held and the last thing I want to remember is yesterday was October 7th a lot of people have suffered over the last year I hope this suffering can end Mr manager your report thank you Mr Mayor I'll make it brief um so just just to to further uh some of the Deputy mayor's discussion about um energy aggregation I just want to remind everyone that there's another opportunity that you all have to look towards clean energy and that's the community solar program um in my conversations with the Gable uh with uh Lauren from Gable Associates um that it is something that um in this period of time where um energy agregation is just not really beneficial to residents of communities that do energy aggregation even without the the caveats that we have for clean energy um that they are encouraging residents to participate in community solar if you're interested in what community solar is um if you go to the our Township tab of uh the our Township website there's a link to community solar I would encourage people to look into it it's a way for you to benefit from solar energy without having to put solar panels on your roof and especially if you don't have a roof if you have an apartment or a rental unit where you don't own the roof you can then also benefit from solar energy as well so just just a thought there and you can save 20 up to 21% and you can save up to 21% on your electric bill exactly T I'm sorry Bob is this also available for businesses or is only for it's for it's for residences only yes um and so that's and then the only other thing I want to bring up is uh there's just one event that's occurring before our next council meeting that some might have uh an interest in in and that's that there is a Fall Foliage and birdwalk at the John Clyde Memorial native grasslands preserve um on Saturday October 12th that's this Saturday um from 8:30 to 11: it's being led by um Autobon naturalist Chris and Paula Williams uh this is actually the 19th year of uh our native grasslands Preserve in griggstown formerly known as the griggstown grasslands preserve um renamed the John Clyde Memorial grasslands preserve a couple years ago by Council uh in honor of um former mayor and and councilman John cide so uh if you're interested it's on our website you can send an email to Franklin trsf Franklin nj.gov and that's what I have tonight Mr Mayor thank you item number 10 Council discussion items uh since Item B is tied to the public safety director and a is tied to our Clerk and and our clerk is stuck here with us for the duration actually both are tied to our public safety director Mr Mayor so she's here for both regardless of what order you do them in all right then let's do the special events permit ordinance first and you don't have to stand at the podium if you don't want you can sit at the table sit oh that's okay when I was out there going to these I always thought that was a place of honor you you sit there [Laughter] no go ahead um good even is this on yes okay good evening everyone nice to see you um starting with the special events permit so um as you may know special events occur uh they're winding down because we're going into fall and winter but um during the Spring and Summer everyone wants to celebrate we want everyone to celebrate have birthday parties graduation parties you know any party holiday parties um and it's become um a thing where other residents call and they complain because we don't have um everyone on the same page in terms of getting ready for these events we have some neighborhoods some residents that do it right they invite their neighbors they know they should Park on one side of the street they don't block their neighbors mailboxes driveways fire hydrants Etc everything works out well then sometimes we don't I think a special events permit Amendment for having large Gatherings um at your home would help everyone be on the same page basically it wouldn't prevent anyone from having a special event at your home a wedding large barbecue graduation party but I think it would just give everyone the same um Playbook so that is the um um thinking behind this special events permit addition or Amendment no that that was the main thing I mean there's other things that we that are in this ordinance besides adding the outdoor private events of over aund it's over 100 people um the ordinance also um clarifies that temporary food permits are only for those events that are open to the public if it's a private event you do not need uh a temporary food permit it takes the Approval Pro the approval of the permit from the council and brings it to me and I issue all the other licenses so it makes more sense for it to come to me than making sometimes when people apply they come in not at the right time and then they you know we sometimes have to you know go backwards with them because they need Council approval um the approval coming from my office would be more efficient except for we we did put in um a line that says at the discretion of the Township Clerk a special event permit may require Township approval for those special special events um and by by having um my office approved them we decreased the application deadline from 60 days to 30 days because then we have more flexibility when it's coming from my office and we added an enforcement provision that we didn't have before so um those are the changes in the ordinance itself that we are presenting so I had a little hand in this during an agenda meeting I said to anarie why does council have to approve these we never say no then the manager pointed out once when we almost said no but but we said yes you did that's correct you almost said no but then said yes um so Council comments so what is what is the enforcement you said we add it in well the police will be able it um hold on so previously previously if you held a special event without a permit or you were in violation of some terms of the permit there was no enforcement provision in the ordinance whatsoever so while it might have been a violation of the ordinance since the ordinance had no provision for any penalty there was no penalty there could be nothing no enforcement taken and so if you had and I'll be just kind of exaggerate here but if you had a circus in your backyard and the public was invited and you were selling tickets and you never came to get us get a permit we we could tell you you needed to stop but there was no no penalties for doing that without the permit so this allows for the general penalty which is which is basically um it's a it's spelled that in the beginning of the code and it says that the general penalty is I believe a a minimum fine of $50 it's it's not it's not anything punitive but it has some en there's the ability to enforce the ordinance now which is what it didn't have before so you end up going to court it's said under you would get a summon exactly you would get a summon for a violation of the of the ordinance correct Municipal Court any else I guess my question is like how does it work now if someone was at their home they wanted to have 125 people over for a wedding there's no application you're not notified in any sort of way corre neighbor decides you know 8:00 at night this is really annoying me I'm going a call you're resour like walk me through are your resources wasted like how because I feel like this will make it better because you'll be official on the books I'm good if my neighbors call because I got this neighbor down the street who's annoying and they don't we don't like each other or whatever not that this is my case I know of people like that um you know they're going to call on me but I'm good I got the paperwork filed so I'll be good to be able to enjoy this really important day for my family how is that contrast that what I see as the future to what currently is happening so even if you have that paperwork they can call they could be annoyed but the party Giver the homeowner would know what to do in terms of so um right now how it works we would go out we would see what the neighbor was complaining about whether it be the noise we're good to that or if people too many cars are parked like on both sides of the street and emergency vehicles can't get up and down the street um a lot of my officers would have to go out make sure the residents move the cars off one side of the street park them somewhere else get from in front of mailboxes driveways fire hydrants so I've seen us you know put out like four five six cops at one time for an event to make sure the street is reorganized or tell them the you know you got to wrap it up it's too late you know neighbors are complaining um that's how it works now and hopefully you know they're cooperative and it usually goes well we just kind of get everyone to um Move Along um with this type of event like I said there would be rules they would understand what they would have to do to have an event like this and what they're required to because um am Maria tell you that permit would go through each department so it would go through fire and you know between fire and myself we talk about parking like okay this street is narrow no cars can park on the street they're going to have to park on the perimeters or you going to have to have other parking Provisions um you know it's Case by case but that's the purpose of it you know some of them it would be no problems they live on a you know nice Street where there's sufficient parking there's you know Hamilton Street maybe they could borrow a parking lot across the street Etc they would have a plan so so I have a I have a question m um so hypothetically that it may happen so let's say somebody has a a party 125 they came they got the permit still the people that they come to their party they uh park at the wrong side and so fors who is going to be paying the penalty the the the homeowner is going to be paying for the tickets of those well no well no no well well well no so let let let's clarify something if if there's a decision that that there would be parking on only one side of the street so then the police department would be posting temporary no parking signs on the other side of the street if that's the case and someone parks there then they're going to get a ticket it'll get put underneath their windshield and they'll have a ticket like any other parking ticket naturally what would happen since we know that event is going on we have a list of special events that are occurring the office would probably knock on that residence door and say listen you're having an event you have to remind your guest they can't park here move your car I've heard 5 10 minutes or we're going to tick it and tow it so it depends on the vi the violations against the homeowners will say homeowner the party Giver at a residential property are going to be things like the limits on um you know things like when when you can have Amplified sound right that's part of you know one ordinance reflects another ordinance right so if they're if they're violating sections of the permit the special event permit then the homeowner gets violated but if somebody parks in a No Parking Zone and there's no e no one moves the car the car is there everybody deny that's not my car that's not my car you know whatever it is then then the owner of the car gets a ticket the issue is here that we have large scale events being held on private property they're impacting residents that live nearby and there's nothing that we can do I mean I will tell you that I I get at least a handful of calls a year from people who expect when they call my office that what I my son is graduating from college next month and we want to have a big party for their graduation what kind of permits do we need to have it people expect that often times it's not uncommon for this to occur so therefore it it's not it and the reason why is that they recognize that there's going to be an adverse impact on the neighborhood and this is an opportunity to involve the Township in their in their planning of their events so that they don't have problems I I understand that I I just want to make sure that we do not impose on the community unnecessary obligations that is not really under their control if somebody comes and Park it wrong or something I mean the the party Giver has to police okay don't park here park here I they're going to take it's going to take enjoyment away from the that party seen we've seen party givers do it we've seen party givers have family members or hire people who are really man in the street telling the guest you can't park on this side so we've seen it done so it's it's possible that if you want to and the other part of that is if they do a permit for 100 50 people 200 people and we look back there and we know it's 500 people it's unsafe you can't have that many people there CU if you have a fire you know the grill set on fire you got a situation um and we can't get down the street cuz cars are parked on both sides we've seen all of that so um right behind us Wilson has been shut down by parties um so but that was not a private party that was a paid party well it was Private def find private property it was on a piece of private property a homeowner it was advertised to the public it doesn't matter whether it's advertised to the public it was an event that was on private property we didn't just know that we didn't walk into it knowing that's what it was we walked into it knowing it was a large party cars parked you know all over the place and we got information later that's how we developed that actually I think you were notified to it because of the noise uh and I do think it makes a big difference whether the general public is invited or whether it's a private party with invited guests my point is though it was at a location that was not commercial in nature it was not it was a private residence where that party was hosted which draws a great deal of similarities to what the director is talking about we have an ordinance for that one that person was summons because they were given they would have required a special event permit but nonetheless it was on a private in a private residence so that type of activity where there's 200 people at that house is no different than if there were 200 people for a a graduation party that runs till 2 o'clock in the morning did we take the floor from you Council no I'm just waiting I I'd like it to be a council more of a councel discussion appreciate it so I agree 100% with the goal and some of the problems you're talking about I believe are out there I know we've been dealing with it I don't agree with the method because most people who are having the parties that I believe you're referring to that are the cause of the most disruption and calls as long as there's laws and maybe you know I'm not disagreeing with the whole thing but the idea that a resident is going to have a christening uh what whatever it is um different cultures have different parties and it's very easy to come up with 80 90 100 110 120 people and then is it I don't believe private people um should have to go I went online and looked at the process fill out and and I might be wrong that's why I'm discussing this mounds of paperwork where they're going to ask how many bathrooms they have and tell them they have to get extra porta potty maybe I read it wrong but I'm sorry but um you know let me put in this context the people that are doing the things like having parties and advertising charging money to make money or doing the things that really cause a lot of issues there were some videos online they're not going to come get a permit regardless probably the people that are going to go through this process and in my mind have again I I agree with the goals but I believe it's government overreach to have someone have to fill out mounts of paper because there are parking laws and people do block driveways I get some calls you guys probably get a lot more calls police station bark and driveways blocking fire hydrant there's laws parking too close to the corners there's laws that cover all that and anybody having a party is going to be so bogged down with dealing with just having a party um if we're talking about a resident their family whatever they're not going to be police and they may they'll have a friend that goes out and does that cuz they're familiar and we'll coax people and tell them but they're not going to be able to police the people that are coming and to put that kind of burden in or stress I just think is unfair and then at what point is it the owner's fault or the person on his Street's fault I I just don't see that the problem that I think you're trying to address is going to get addressed I see a lot of people that would do nothing wrong and there's laws to cover problems of people parking wrong or making too much noise for them to go through a permit process I mean if they're charging or there's a band I mean there's certain elements I could see but if you're just having a barbecue and you have whether you have a half acre or three acres or three people are getting together in three backyards in a congested area of town and they have a I just I just see it as a bureaucratic nightmare I don't see it as enforceable um because of the per I don't see it being more enforcable because the laws that we want to put there are on the books that we could put on here without making the person have to go get a permit what about I don't know can I can I can I if I just can I jump it there sure well first councilman I think that by saying that it's over a 100 people we are we are establishing that condition and it it's easy to say well you know 100 people on three acres that's not a lot of people but what about a 100 people on a house that's on a 50 by 100 lot um and it's and now that 100 people is not safe so 100 people is just a trigger that gives us the ability to then take a look at it if you take the position that well bad people aren't going to get the per permit but good people are here's the problem we can't do anything to bad people then we have no enforcement mechanism to to stop them so 100 100 people is a lot of people on a residential lot it's also a lot of people on a lot that only has a house that has one bathroom that it's the number of people that generate all of the problems and it's not as simple as saying well people you know you you already have laws for parking well you may not have a No Parking Zone on that street so now those 100 people are now parked on a street where there's 10 houses and there's only really enough room for 15 cars but now there's 150 cars there or 100 cars there or 75 cars there so we do try to do this and by the way this is a kind of a pretty standard pretty standard ordinance and it's and I I don't know necessarily that's mountains of of paperwork it actually avoids problems because it put two and a half page application that takes about so was the longer one that's what I'm trying to get clear for it was the longer one that was pages and pages is that for like Comm like a park if you're renting a par it's the same one for everyone it's two and a half pages long I was looking at the wrong one because there's one that goes into all kinds of thing like where you going to set up a tent describe how many is you have to describe where you're setting up a tent I mean but that's I'll look back I thought it was multiple pages I might have been looking at the you don't have to hire an architect we're asking for a sketch drawing your house and where the tent's going to go approximately um understand something most residents who want to do the right thing are already calling us for guidance like they they don't want to do the wrong thing they want to have a nice event and listen if I was going to spend money to have a nice party for 100 people yeah I want to do it right I want to tell my guests where to park yes because I don't want them to get tickets I want them to come back to my house um you know I want to make sure that I don't annoy my neighbors because I have to live there after that night and also I want it to be safe for the flow of traffic if someone at that party God forbid has a heart attack if there's a fire we want these vehicles safety vehicles to be able to make it through there to directly to the house whether they're having a party or not I've seen in almost five years I've been here large weddings large you know baptism parties I mean I've seen it and it worked out perfectly because they asked for guidance if the cops come and tell them they're doing something not quite right they move their cars I've gone to friends parties and I've said to them no no no tell them Park on one side of the street emergency vehicles have to get down here I've gone to friends parties in other cities and states and tell them that because I know in my head like you want to have a nice event but you want to be courteous to all your neighbors as well the we don't we're not impeding the process we're trying to help and we do look I've gotten calls days off people asking okay look we want to have family over and it's not even a hundred people they still want to be courteous to their neighbors um and I just think it just puts everyone on notice we're not we're not trying to find people we're not trying to write tickets we just want everyone to be happy and celebrate and do what they want to do the right way we're not we're not going to get rich off of this we're not trying to find and enforce them we're just want to let direct them to something and say here this is what you should do these are the best practices and we planned on talking about it on Tuesday night talk but we never got through this ordinance so that would be my spring edition Tuesday night talk you know it's party time this is what you should do so so it seems May yeah so it seems to me that um the two problems I've heard in this conversation is one is the illegal parking over parking in the street uh and two potentially a noise issue um and I think the noise issue I think we're going to cover in another ordinance um as for the parking so are we kind of uh confusing the num the parking issue with a private party where there are people so the the impact to the community or the street or to the people is the inconvenience of uh over parking or illegal parking on a street not just inconvenience I'm sorry coun I don't mean to interrupt you it's not just inconvenience it's Public Safety yeah and we have to have the streets for emergency vehicles so if everyone could Park on both sides and the street is wide enough great we we don't even bother with that so so is there some way to massage this ordinance that uh if the homeowner on a private property is having a party and is expecting more than 50 cars or 100 cars whatever that might be maybe we can redo this so it doesn't look so intrusive I think to me when I read this ordinance okay this is my property I'm going to have people why should I have to get permits you know I have enough land but as a public Nu nuisance or a public safety issue on a street yes that I think we can uh say Hey you know you you know if you if you got room for 100 cars in your 3 Acre property go for it but if you're going to use a public uh Road that's going to create a hazard uh on an emergency yes we we should get uh some we don't until they apply for it and tell us they're doing this so that's why I'm saying you know the 100 people in a private property that kind of doesn't sound too good but if it is 100 cars on a public Street that's the difference I'm trying to so I just want see you made a statement councilman that so it's it's your private property but you're not allowed to do anything that you want there are many things that you're not allowed to do because they're not legal um one of the things that you're not allowed to do is create a hazardous condition fireworks you right right you're you're not allowed to have a bonfire on your front lawn because it's not permitted now bonfires might be permitted with a permit somewhere but not necessarily on a residential front lawn I I understand that there and and and there's this concern and and and maybe that some of the concerns comes from maybe charging a fee for these permits if there's some if there's some concern over that then maybe that thing can be modified and and listen I staff will dedicate time and and staff time is has value and that's why we charge an amount of money for permits is because staff has to do things right if someone is going to have a large wedding in their backyard whether they be on a quarter acre lot or a 6 acre lot if they're going to have tents and they're going to have on street parking those things require staff to dedicate time right the fire prevention office will have to spend time with fire inspectors ensuring that the tents meet proper fire code the police department will have to expend time if you don't want that time to be us to recoup that time in the way of a fee then choose not to have a fee for this ordinance that's fine but when when these events are held in locations that are not intended for these types of events they create a hazardous condition that means that if that's not mitigated that hazardous condition is allowed to occur that's what the effort is here that's what the purpose of this ordinance is not to intrude on someone's private property but to ensure that whatever is that's occurring is done in a safe manner and doesn't create a hazardous condition for the attendees for the the people who live in the neighborhood in adjacent Properties or for the people who have to respond to the complaints when they occur it it does create a hazardous condition for instance you know I I'll take Weston Road right so if I live on Weston Road and I have a party for 150 people where will those 150 people Park they'll have to park on Weston Road Weston Road is not suitable for parking that many vehicles but if someone just chooses to have that party and park the cars there the police department then has to deal with that hazardous condition if someone has it on Sunny Court which is a a culde saac if you know but then if they have it on a road say like New Brunswick Road that's 50 ft wide and has parking on both sides the condition is different so the the the impositions made if there was a permit would be different you know the section of New Brunswick Road between deont Lane and JFK Boulevard allows parking on both sides and is a wide Boulevard style right away that wouldn't there would no be no impact to traffic on that road if parking took place on both sides we've seen communities come together when a resident wants to do something like that they work with their neighbors someone who has a Big Lot we'll let them Park cars on their lot like you just have to think outside the box but we don't know until there's a complaint we we yeah we have a we have a we have someone who approached the town recently and they're they were planning a wedding for 300 people on a parcel of land that's in excess of 6 acres and is on a street that allows no parking whatsoever on either side and they were making uh provisions for uh parking attendance and they were going to park on the lawn which is which in a in this particular circumstance would be permitted um we our zoning ordinance doesn't allow for parking on the lawn but for this type of event that would be allowed um they approached us to ask about permits and things like that this this is one of the things that kind of prompted this discussion um there it was accommodated if if the concern is cost we're going to do this we still feel that it's it's um beneficial to do this even if there is we'll say a nominal zero $10 what you know whatever it is it doesn't have to be a fee that recoups part of the staff costs for for processing the permit but I still think that it it it's something that we're looking out for the benefit of not just the the um the people people who are attending the neighbors there there's a a whole host of people that benefit from a well organized event as opposed to one that happens and and there's no planning whatsoever for these types of issues okay any anyone else I'd like to say something M thank you so we talked about this in edmin and um it took me back about 10 years when I had a family reunion in my backyard and I rented a tent and I had people come up from Pittsburgh DC at that time there was none of this right and I probably had about a hundred family members in my backyard I live on a street where there's plenty of parking so it wasn't there was no issue plus they had Vans and they came up in vans so you know there there wasn't an issue with parking however I also have thought about there have been some popup parties in my neighborhood whereby you can't get even get down Rolling Road because there are people that have these parties you know I don't know what they're doing loud music and and it's been happening for like the last three or four uh Summers and people come to me because I'm the council woman and I live in that area and they're like why are you allowing this to happen right and you and I say well I couldn't get down the street either I had to go all around the corner and and to get to my house as well it's a nuisance for me as well so so I mean there are both sides of the story to hear right and I think the fact that more and more people are socializing at home it's very expensive to rent venues you know the the kind of uh world that we live in now the concern here for all of us is are we over regulating uh people's rights within their private property or are we doing the right thing for the greater good of the neighborhood and the community and I think that's the balance here right that for me that's the balance well to me I I we're not going in saying how much liquor you're drinking you know we're not monitoring the food saying they need permits for that we're we're really saying if it can be contained that's how I feel it's not a problem we don't know about it if it's contained in your backyard you close the fence and no one really knows it's there but for the noise we'll get to that one next it's it's not an issue but that's not the life we live in everyone has a car you invite 10 people you're probably going to have eight cars so that's how it works I know you invite me and my kids there's going to be three cars at your house so cuz they don't want to drive together they don't want they want to leave when they want to leave so I mean that's the life we live in now so um I hear all your concerns I'm telling you hours and I hope we can meet somewhere in the middle anyone else who hasn't spoken yet I just had a question how does the street like how do the streets get added to this is it based on the number of complaints that you received or it's 100 people no 100 people at the party no streets it's the number of people that you're going to have at your party so there's no criteria right now it's just everything everyone well any person any Resident who wants to have a party in excess of 100 people Outdoors outdoor party yes if you can fit them all in your house that's great so if you have 89 people at your house you don't have to go get a permit or 99 or 99 but and you're going to end up with the same parking issue so it's like you just tell invite 99 people and then you're in the clear if 130 show up I mean that's what I mean by I toally support Mr vas let so the home owner has to include the homeowner or the well so usually the lawyer is the one who's parsing these words the answer is is that if you invite 89 people and 150 people show up at your house you're in violation of this ordinance and you should be and no because what always happens is people always say oh well I didn't realize 200 people were going to show up to my pop-up party I only invited five friends and they all invited 200 friends right though they don't it's just the 100 person is just a it's just a trigger it's just a trigger number because you can't it would be so much harder if you sent to a homeowner well if you produce 50 cars well how do I know how many cars are going to be here I don't really know but 100 people we can take a reasonable estimate is we know how many cars you know 50 or 60 extra cars on most of these residential streets are going to be a problem generally if you have a six acre lot you're not you're going to get this permanent it's not going to be anything you're going to park everybody on your lot it's not going to be a big deal but if you're on a street like Kimberly Street and you and you really have a parking issue and you you're going to obstruct the street then we're going to have to make arrangements for parking on only one side it's just it's just a matter of it's it's a it's the inconvenience of living in a society right you have to be responsible of your house was not designed you couldn't have 100 people live in your house so now you're going to have 100 people there that that becomes a problem and it it just and by the way we're only talking about a 100 we're not talking about 300 right because more than a 100 is more than a 100 so we we and we and we do have we you know you do have these issues and it's you know it just gives you the ability to kind of get ahead and you're going to stop more problems I think than you're going to cause here um so so then just like if you were to book a park you would need insurances do we need separate insurance from no no because if you own a house you have home you have home okay so there's no no there's no insurance well it says a million dollar liability Mr Pella but I think that that's for go ahead for yeah I think that's for that's for those that are open to the public that's for those that are open to the public and by the way and you that's you know that's pretty standard stuff y yeah anyone else who hasn't anyone else who hasn't spoken yet so for my input I'm kind of agree somewhat with some of the things that were said um what echoes in my mind is this is my home I'm having a party and I have to get a permit Mr vorn locker and I can uh swear to today events where people who had an open uh to the general public event didn't realize the permits they had to get now we're having people with a private party telling them they they've one got to get a permit and two they've got to pay what $125 what that's up to you up to you so as I said so to me to for me to even consider the vote it should be zero this is just something we should eat so so the only thing I caution you with with that statement is when you make it zero there's then there's far less you know it you may maybe you'll get I'm agreeing with you here I know sometimes you are you don't believe that I agree with you sometimes if you make it zero you might get more compliance with people doing it right if it's $150 they might say well you know no I'm not going to go down and get that permit because who are they but at at zero it might be something that they say it's kind of like you know I get calls all the time do I need to have a permit to have a garage sale and we don't require that of the 564 municipalities in the state of New Jersey I bet way more than half of them do but we don't right because we trust that people will have their garage sale once or twice a year but then we get to complain about the person who has the garage sale every weekend for like a year and the Neighbors start to complain about the cars parking on the street right I mean so you know it it's an exception but if you think that it should be zero I I don't necessarily disagree with you I it's just that we generally charge a permit fee to at least cover at least a portion of the cost of processing that permit application why don't we start at zero and see where it goes for the next season I mean we may have 50 applicants we may have 10 we I mean first we have to educate everyone I told you that's going to be our Tuesday night talk topic about so now you're having a party and like I said a lot of people call us for direction already and we help them um it's it's still telling people what they can do in their own home and I gr granted you can't murder someone in your own home but this is not murdering someone this is having a party you can't put a pool put a pool in your backyard without a permit right I mean we tell them a lot of things about their property they we tell them what they can't do when it pours out into the street and and that's really what it is about wait wait go wait what difference does it make if they're inside versus outside if I have a 100 people inside doesn't make any no it doesn't make any difference they're having a party with more than 100 people you said if they're out inside they're okay I said if the whole party was contained behind inside your house we wouldn't be here talking about it even if it's a 100 people if you can but it spills out to the outside because they Park up and down the street that makes no sense said this is outdoor I'll tell you why it makes sense for a couple of reasons one is that the noise and all of those kind of things and the effect on your neighbors with if you're inside your house as oppos you're outside house there's a separate ordinance for that well talking about this ordinance they're related though so there there's that part of it and and the other part of it once again is it has something to do with the size of the venue right if you can fit a 100 people in your house then you have the property that you're on So you you're trying to figure out a way because you can't you can't think of every possibility as to what triggers a triggers a permit right and we don't want to get so complicated as the well you can have 52 people in your house if your house is 3,000 ft but you're going to have only 48 people in your house if your house is 2,800 sare ft and if one needs a permit one doesn't so you're just trying to find some kind of trigger mechanism to do that what would you think of a higher trigger mechanism 150 20 150 too high how many people here have had a party with 100 people hon at my house no your house at your house Outdoors how many people have had an outdoor party with 100 people Ed my my family is as big as that we're we're an Asian family we have 70 I have like 100 including kids you have them at your house in your back but they're not in the same like the vehicle they're car pooling right so at your house in their backyard so we're there's no vote tonight no no I guess the not like shunning you I'm asking a question I've never had that so I'm asking okay so a party with a 100 people Outdoors at home all right so outdo there's no vote tonight I guess what we're looking for is directions do we want an ordinance or not not um sounds like I'm calling for a vote um are Where Do We Go From Here Mr Mayor if I may I mean I heard a few things one was the car issue the other one that I heard from the township manager was if somebody wants to put a tent they have to involve the fire department to make sure there's the right type of tent and if it's the right type of the tent if the person doesn't have it they have to go and pay probably additional money for that right type of the tent so there's more than just the cars that we have to keep in mind in this permit if I understood correctly right is a a list of I'm not saying it's bad or good but I think I just want to make sure that everybody knows that we're not talking only about the cars we're talking about the that as far as the cars in my opinion all the streets that you're not supposed to have the two parking in both sides I hope we have signs it says no parking no we do not if we don't if somebody the the neighborhood should know that that nobody is allowed to park in that side so and uh so it to me it's a little bit U cash 22 if we don't want people to park why don't we put signs so I'll tell you why because the residential site Improvement standards of the state of New Jersey require certain WID streets to have parking on one side or two sides depending on how wide the street is just because a street under the New Jersey law allows for parking on both sides doesn't mean that it's necessarily intended to have cars parked Bumper to Bumper along the entire length in both directions and that's why so for instance a 36t wide Road allows for parking on both sides of the road when you take a 7t wide vehicle add one foot from Curb to vehicle vehicle that's 8 ft that's 16 now you have a 20ft wide section in between you have an 8T wide fir Tru coming down the street and a car coming in the other direction and there's not enough uh Road WID for them both to pass but most residential streets never have bumper-to-bumper parking along its entire length on both sides we don't make no parking on one side of the street where it's under ordinary circumstances not necessary we're not talking about ordinary circumstances we're talking about extraordinary circumstances when someone is having a an event on a piece of property that was not intended according to our zoning ordinances and according to Common Sense for an event of that size all right we don't our our you know I live in a in a house in a modest home on an 85 by 100 lot okay it's a small house on a small on a culde sack I could never have one I could never fit a 100 people in my house all right there's not enough room inside it for 100 people and I could fit a 100 people in my backyard there's absolutely positively no way that my street could support a the parking for a 100 attendees so if I want to have a party where there's more than 100 people I go to some venue and have a party I don't have it at my house because it's not appropriate to expedite this may I suggest and Council can weigh in write the ordinance with zero fee and we're certainly giving the public ample time because it would be introduced at the next meeting and then at the next meeting would be the second reading and we can mold it over and I'm not promising how I'm going to vote can I just add one little piece to it sure I think one of the teners I'm hearing is somehow people are trying to say no and I haven't really heard that it's trying to say yes so that people have a green light to do something really fun on a special occasion and maybe every occasion for councilwoman Udin for her family um at no cost to make sure that everything's in alignment and safe and good and that you can't have somebody comeing and complain and and shut it down so maybe we could add something like that the permit shall not be reasonably withheld um so that it it is on the side of the people trying to do the thing which is ultimately we're trying to do is allow them to have a gathering um and to also when we get to the noise ordinance ensure that it comes with extra benefits of a little bit more time to be uh you know have noise so I mean we could elect to have a criteria for large Gatherings whether it be at a private you know but again how do you enforce that you know how do we know the residents will know unless they come to us and we kind of work with them to make sure they do it the right way I mean it can be if you expect to have an excess of X number of cars I mean it's going to get complicated unless we just evaluate it Case by case I mean we can look at them um am Mar tell you we get them now we automatically know when we see 500 people we're like that location can't hold 500 people where are they going to park what about this what about that so it's not like you said we're not trying to stop people from doing it we just want everyone to do it the right way and like I said I've seen great scenarios where they come together residents let their neighbors Park their family members or their guest cars in their driveway block their driveways as long as they say yes if everyone says yes and everyone's in agreement it's a great day but if you can't get to your house after coming home from work people get very upset very upset and we see it all summer so if we could limit the discussion to my suggestion of should the we have the ordinance be written with zero and then we can introduce it that way and maybe it'll pass maybe it won't is that okay with Council or I people disagree with that concept I think there's a few other nuances and maybe I got Amendment I'm not understanding but corre correct me here please it says you have to send a 200 ft certified ma is that for public some of the things I guess I read that I thought were overbearing were for uh when you were renting a Township facility or for commercial special event this is not a special event so so there's no Li there's no insurance requirements no okay that's what I'm trying to clarify because there's a lot of requirements that sounds like maybe they you're reading all of the requirements of a special event from Top the end and I and that's the entire ordinance is the special event permit ordinance so then when it says Outdoors an attendance of 100 persons then all these other things don't apply like you don't have to send notice the you don't have to have a portapotty all those things don't apply you just have to have a permit correct but the permit then is not Bas the permit gets reviewed by staff that that is part of the special event permit review there's that there there's a number so for them to be able to get the permit though they may have to like the one thing says here if you have a tent that's more than 30 ft on one side you have to get a construction permit yes and that's the law that's state law whether whether you're having it in your backyard or in Colonial Park That's the Law okay and if you don't do that and you have an event and don't tell us you're in violation of the construction code so I I I guess I'm just wondering if there's any way before we get this introduced um is there not a way to just have a separate ordinance with a separate see to me most of what you're saying is education so and we can do education without the permit process but if you want the permit process can we have something that is separate from the I think what he's asking for is please make it clear which and Mar make it clear I will thank you that's F you agree yeah no because I'm just looking at a lot of these requirements that I think are suitable but not for you know literally uh my councilwoman colleague here who's have 100 people in their family may want to have a barbecue and it just looks like you have to jump through hoops and maybe there's not as many Hoops as I'm thinking but look at what just so you know my daughter got married at my stepdaughter's house in Columbia New Jersey and I had to get permits for the tent and I had to get porta johns because we were going to have 150 people and I had to get a special event permit because it was a wedding in in a backyard so it's not that we you know people do this to make sure that everybody's safe yeah weddings and whatnot I can see the 5 minutes after the DJ started playing cuz we didn't invite the neighbor they complained in the police were there and I had to show my permit okay um so if are there other modifications or objections to my suggestion no let's let's move on okay so um staff has their orders has their marching orders I have mine okay thank you um now the I've lost my script oh here we go noise noise ordinance noise nuisance ordinance talk about nuisances go ahead so presently in order to address the noise ordinance we need noise meters we need certified noise meter readers and I need certified noise meter operators it's costly it's a process and I do not have a noise meter operator on every single shift every time of the day to cover 24/7 plus I'll tell you this in five years we've written one summons that met the decb of that noise meter and the ordinance and how many noise complaints do you get out of hundreds and I can't count the number I get hundreds and I'm going to I'm not going to say thousands I'm be polite but definitely hundreds maybe from the same people but hundreds but I'm and and I'm I feel for them because everyone's noise tolerance is different and what we're proposing is that it's a nuisance noise ordinance meaning if the cops are called and and here's what happens just like speeding I get the complaint of speeding all the time if I sit a car at the hot intersection where you know people are running lights what do they do they don't run lights they don't speed because the cops are sitting right there the cops come down the street right nine times out of 10 the neighbor and and the person have already had words they turn it down so we use the noise meter it doesn't meet the levels we sit there a little while waai and see if they turn it back up they don't I mean 20 minutes into it we got to go to another call they turn it back up they call again this this is the back and forth we go through I have one person two people that have my cell phone number and in the summer time I I get the call we sit at their house we try to get it they buy their own noise meters serious they don't count because they're not certified by who we get them certified for and they can't write their own ticket based upon their noise meter a nuisance ordinance would give the officer the discretion the officer would have it record recorded what's what's going on we would have it recorded how many times we've repeatedly gone back to that residence that would be the nuisance part of it because if you have 10 different residents calling about the same noise complaint I think that would qualify that would give the office or something you will have a report you will have something to document you will have how many times we've warned the person so it there would be a more flow of a process where we could address it and people would take us serious I think right now we're not taken serious with these noise meters people I mean I walked into this um the places I've worked the places I've lived that's not what they use the noise meter I was really shocked to see it but I think it's time for us to kind of try to address it and give some of our resents residents you know some alleviate that because I'm telling you I have the same and I feel for them because if it doesn't meet that level on that noise meter there is nothing we can do Mr Mayor what Mr Mayor just would to add to answer your question there were 845 of them in the last 12 months okay thank you may yes may I yes sir um there's another aspect to this that I just want to just uh pointed out to council as you know you passed an amendment to the noise ordinance concerning the um the operations of trucks loading and unloading uh in certain zones in the township um we have run into difficulty with the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection because they won't consider any amendments to your um to your noise ordinance until you uh completely revamp your noise ordinance to meet whatever their most current model ordinance is the problem is is that this is actually an it really is a nuisance ordinance and it really belongs in the nuisance ordinance so as as part of you know part of what you need to make that ordinance enforcable we need to move that we need to move those provisions into the nuisance ordinance and get them out of the noise ordinance so that we no longer have the requirement of having to get D approval um for the adoption of of these ordinances which are you know and and their issue is and and you know once again this is an important issue to I know to the council um under D standards they would say well if you're going to stop somebody from loading and unloading a truck in the middle of the night you have to have a noise meter at the nearest residential property line and it has to every time one of those boxes bangs on the back of that truck it has to exceed the the noise meter and you have to have a certified operator there when it happens it's virtually impossible to enforce that by using decibel levels so one of one of the other things that we've done here is to try to fix some of those specifically with regards to that and if anybody is rushing through it to find out where it is it's in 16919 f um and that that is that you'll you'll read that and you'll you'll understand what that language is but we need to get that into the nuisance ordinance because otherwise you're going to have trouble a enforcing it in be sustaining it in what is by the way the pending court challenge to it Council comments discussion so mayor I have a comment so I think this is much needed um councilman vasella and I met with the former noise control officer from another County um he not only touched upon your issues he also showed us the documentation an officer had to make it's like like a book no officer is going to sit down and write those and and apparently they have to be there for 30 minutes and it has to be recorded every 5 minutes or something like that so it's very honorous and it's just not possible it's not effective we cannot attend to the complaints based on the current ordinance and agree 100% with Lou it has to be a new usance ordinance that what we have and um I think it's much easier to enforce and I think uh it gives us uh a much better uh chance of uh shutting down and attending to these issues so I I think um I'm I'm good with this ordinance anyone else I'll just add to that I'm I'm pleased with it I get a lot of noise complaints um in some of the areas in W one are very tight housing clusters and you know there's really no way to enforce it given all the things that were described here and it's very frustrating to Residents and it's it's really not the oneoff I mean all of us have that in a neighborhood where somebody like oh that's interesting that's over there and then it's gone you never hear from it here it's pretty much you know the consistent day in and day out um and and I think this will help to address that where there'll be more than just hey nice to meet you officer what are you going to do about it and a dialogue to just make it a more livable Community which I think is part of our responsibility as members of council um to you know make it an enjoyable place to live and Franklin a wonderful place to uh call home I guess one question I have is if you register your party because you have over a hundred people you're able to go an hour later with noise is my reading of this ordinance and I just want to be sure that is one of the extra benefits of registering a large event because you know that you know you it feels like it's a lot on you but it also comes with that benefit where you can have music till 11: whereas the cut off for everyone else is 10: so if you want your wedding to end at 10: we don't register events if you want a wedding to go to 11: this is one way that we can do that because under the special event permit noise can happen till 11: our Township events the Gazebo Etc fall into that category is that correct my reading of it yes thank you anyone else yeah mayor um so I I love the this ordinance of what it's trying to do a couple questions that came from uh some research um and the the sessions Rah and I and other discussed it um are you allowed to have this and still have a separate component in this or another ordinance that if you want as a fall back or in certain situations where a noise meter may work you can't have two approaches so I'm trying to be as strict as possible here with noise so that's what I'm getting at I'm not trying to make it less so I didn't know if you're allowed to have that the other thing is um is there a way because it seems like sometimes tell me if I'm wrong it's habitual offenders not everybody but somebody who causes noise probably does it more frequent more than once um could we have something set up to where if a noise complaint comes in and it's seen to be valid then um it's set up so that there could be a tiered enforcement effort I not telling you what they do I'm just saying like the first time in person who really has never caused any trouble they get a written water warning it goes on file they see that that person's gotten a written war of that address if they get the next offense you know it's the $200 or $300 and then after that it's just you know whatever the thousands are and I don't know if our attorney knows there's what we're allowed to do with that but um I'm happy we're doing this I wanted to be strict and practical and enforcable so how did you feel about like how do we keep track of the habitual fenders and would they get uh understandably harsher penalty or VI an actual written violation as opposed to a warning so is and Lou you can correct me from wrong but I I think it's better to have it still at the officer's discretion depending on how egregious it is at that time I I don't want the officers to have to oh this is the second time we've been here if it's the same night and maybe we come and maybe it's a person on number two such and such Street then number seven oh I didn't mean the same night I'm sorry I meant separate occurrences but understand but understand councilman it's not up to the police department what the penalty is no that's why I'm saying no what I'm saying is it's up to the judge well don't we put it in the guidelines no the general penalty allows for anything from $50 to $2,000 is what I believe the general penalty allows for I think that what you're looking at is if the if there's multiple violations and then the judge should be making that determination not the ordinance okay but is there a system that that information will the judicial system no no I mean the information about how many offenses go ahead Lou again I just want to make this better I love the idea of what we're doing first Amar there's a Amar there's a type of when the ordinance you have $3,000 is the maximum violation it can only be $2,000 so I was right about two I thought so and that's that's the the provision in the fauler ACT that's the general default provision for for all for all fines and yes that's something that that that a judge that's that's a kind of a Judicial responsibility as as Mr born Locker said we issue violations the judge imposes fines so I think what he was saying though if someone gets like two three tickets something like that but I mean it's still going to be at the officer's discretion whether they write someone two tickets in one night or two tickets you know one ticket that night after we have four calls I mean so again I trust the I trust our our our police uh uh giving them the latitude to do what they think is best I think they're wonderful and would be fair I mean if it's somebody who there's uh two months later there's on the party two weeks later there's another party are we allowed to legally put a tiered uh either tiered penalty or uh a written documentation so that the judge would know uh you know that this is an habitual offender so to speak so we we have we have lots of ordinances that do that I'm trying to think off the top of my head probably the you know burglar alarm ordinances you get a $100 fine the first time the second offense you get a $500 fine we could we could certainly put that in there the the problem with this is that it's it's kind of non it's kind of non-specific right so if you you know I mean there's a lots of different things in here but is it the same the same type of conduct is it playing loud music a number of times um so I I mean we could we could put minimum penalties in it we we we didn't do that um we but we certainly could do that if the council wanted that we could put a $100 minimum penalty and um you know I um I'm you know once again that's that's within your discretion you certainly could do that if you wanted to do that and we do have ordinances I steep stepped penalties I mean we have you know for the first offense it's this for more than two offenses in a year it's this we certainly can do that if you want councilman that makes you that's what I was addressing and with the step the the issue there though councilman is that the generally speaking the the the court I mean you know with so we track burglar alarms that's an easy thing to track because you know that that it and there's and and certainly we can track noise violations as well I just told you there were 845 in the last 12 months that took me literally you know 10 seconds to find out and to be honest I could tell you specifically by address where each one of those 845 were right and um so I if if you're thinking that that that's a simple modification to this ordinance Amendment if that's where Council wants to go where first violation gets you you know a a mandatory minimum 50 and the second was a mandatory minimum 100 and the third in every subsequent is a mandum minor Mand mandatory minimum 500 you know that's kind of how the uh the burglar alarm and fire alarm Ordinance Works and and I and I might make a suggestion that the the provision of the ordinance that we were talking about before which is generally all of those things that for Council who are following a law each and every um time they're cited is a separate violation and it is and it it ratchets up because once again we don't want to be in a situation where we're you know we have a warehouse who is an a be of this and they're getting multiple you know every time they show up they get a $50 fine well the answer is they will pay $50 a day to be able to operate yes they will yeah you're absolutely right bu it should be no doubt cost to doing business so it it probably at least for that you know once we're not introducing this tonight councilman so we can come back with something but for at least the one the things that are contained in section 19 I think we should have that that kind of provision because their businesses located at a certain place involved in a certain activity it's pretty clearly defined um you know yeah if you're making $1,000 an hour and I'm only charging you $50 a day that's a pretty good deal um so oh go ahead I have a technical question so um during the weekends you can be loud let's just say up till 10 p.m. so if at 9:30 p.m. I'm blasting my music somebody complains there's really nothing anyone can do to me that's totally cool I can like totally rock out have a great time everything's good but as soon as the clock strikes 10 Dar he used to call that the witching hour right so there's a witching hour you can go to 11: but you know I mean one one of the things I guess that kind of little little known fact is that there was a provision even in the model noise ordinance that if you have something that's you know unreasonably you know disruptive blah blah blah blah blah blah so that that kind of C you know addressed here um that's why it's in it really was kind of a nuisance ordinance provision it's it is kind of addressed here too so you know so there was another question from councilman basella um so you you you did ask another question that was went unanswered and that is can you have both the answer is yes you can have both although in in discussions that I've had with with people including our Township attorney it does allow for then some um fuzziness as to um what whatw what ordinance in particular is being enforced um we we drafted this ordinance in an attempt to cover all of the different types of noise um that that we deal with um under the current noise meter ordinance right which you know and and the reason why the de is involved for those of you who don't know is because it is a it is a there is a state statute State Statute that is an enabling statute that says municipalities May adop this model ordinance but you have to adopt it in its totality you know so that's the problem here is you don't get it you don't get to pick and choose what parts you like and what parts you don't like the state says either you have all of it or you have none of it right so that's kind of our problem here so and you and you also wouldn't have two ordinances on the same subject with different inforcement mechanism and different penalty Provisions because then neither ordinance would be enforcable would be they'd be vague I mean you know the state says that you can operate commercial landscape equipment between the hours of 700 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. right we've modified that slightly in this particular ordinance right so you know there are those things that you're not allowed to do if you have a noise ordinance correct so we want to do that well then but you can't pull that portion out of the noise ordinance either that was kind of to catch no everything you're saying makes sense because I went and we actually pulled in all the towns that have got ones approved ones that sent the duplicate yeah no I'm agreeing with everything you're saying I just didn't know if there was a way we could have two to have more teeth to get the police be like would be like having an ordinance that says that you can't assault somebody and then having another ordinance that says that you can't hit somebody with your left these are just a couple questions you just kind of would you just wouldn't do it I just I I knew you asked it and I mean and the last thing I'm going to throw out and uh we can move on but um the only other question I had and kind of came out of the conversation the research we were doing was um you have 200 feet and I I may not understand this but what I'm hearing is let's just say 50 foot I mean there's actually a lot of frontages are 25 but let's say 50 some more densely populated area the mechanism right now is 200 feet if you can hear it and maybe I don't understand this but if your two houses down and you're 100 feet 200 feet it's the nearest residential property line no it says the current one is nearest property that's what I that's what I wanted to be this ordinance proposes is if it's if it's plainly audible to a police officer from 200 feet away it's a it's a prima fascia violation of the ordinance so going back to what it turn attorney said I always thought most of these things because of the disparity of the property sizes in the house to house or whatever that we always did um or usually I be wrong but doing some research at its property line right now if you have six houses you can be 175 ft down but if the or 50 ft say 50 ft away it could be really obnoxious at whatever hour at night but understandably the police officer has to follow this they go 200 ft away that person that's 50 ft away is being disenfranchised am I am I reading it in reverse well well once again it's a pretty comprehensive ordinance you're leading out you're leaving out section 169-177 which says it shall be unlawful for a person to make continue or cost to be made or continue any loud unnecessary or unusual noise or any noise which does not and is likely to annoy disturb injure or endanger the Comfort Repose health safety and blah blah blah it's it's it's a very broad thing so it gives the police officer the ability as as the councilman said it's okay to play to play music outside but if you're playing it so loud that the people in the house next door can't hear themselves even though it can't be heard from 200 feet away it's going it gives the police officers the ability to go in and actually deal with problems that are actual problems but but if it can be heard from 200 ft away it is automatically a violation there's no there's no discretion necessary if it can be heard from 200 ft away I'll go over the but maybe after the Mee you can give me the section so under 200 ft we can still we could still be proactive page five bottom of page five councilman thank you Bott of page councilman Wright do you have anything you want to add just a small little question impossible 14s according to what I was reading what we're proposing is more stringent than what's out there correct what we're proposing is something that's that's that is it is more enforcement friendly for us so that the officers can actually deal with the 845 complaints that you have that's what it is and and it's also based in common sense versus science all right and and unfortunately we're asking our police officers to be scientists as opposed to using I I just got in say over coun right has that question Council ask just another small question does this replace that 65 DB stuff that was sitting out there that's what I was looking for because it didn't say anything about that that we're replacing that so now I understand we are replacing that 65 DB so no longer yeah yeah but there were some of us that were questioning was the 200 ft capricious and arbitrary and how you know where did they come from so the way what it came from is two old men old men I know where it came from but I'm I'm letting the public know put it on a record two old men Mr vlocker and I set up a boom box um and put it as loud as we could talk it was full volume and it was louder than we would have liked it to be and we walked 200 ft before we couldn't hear it anymore yes so that's that's what it's based on so so I absolutely would accept argument to the distance if someone could give now I have one other question does this uh football games that the high school might have so there are many things that are exempt from this ordinance including those government sponsored events and just want to make sure so there's things that there are things that are should be reasonably un it should be reasonable that they will be held a marching band at a high school uh football stadium um you know there's there's all of those things if you look through the ordinance are Exempted park or something like that an outdoor concert at the Gazebo at the municipal complex and I'm I'm being very specific but generically they're they're they're talked about and discussed as as you know being exempt from the enforcement so that includes a park or something includes a park a a football game all of those things yes I just want the people to know that out there in TV Land right but then the second part says that you know the second part of the ordinance says that it still has to be reasonable you know there has to be a reasonable this to it it can't be so overly uh overly loud that it it offends the censes so to speak you know so mayor Mr may we don't need the timer anymore Amory broke it no we don't need the timer hang on hang on let's forget the timer Dr Kazi uh yeah I had I had uh actually uh got a couple of complaints from uh some of the people that lay in my neighborhood there is a Manufacturing Company maybe about I don't know from my house probably 1,500 ft away MH and there is such a loud buzzing noise that if I open my at night if I leave my window open I can't sleep sometimes is this NOS it's from their a AC I believe or whatever is this this has been investig are you aware of the fact that this has been investigated over the last 25 years probably 100 different times by the health department okay all right so so it was not a violation under the noise ordinance as it's currently written on our our uh it had been investigated over and over and over again it's rooftop air conditioning units not going to name the business doesn't matter right now for this discussion this ordinance would allow for more enforcement Authority Under The Police Department than it would be under the old ordinance that would be good okay any it's going to be within the residential area right would be any area everywhere everywhere is anyone else compelled to say anything else because we still have uh cannabis to go through seeing no one compelled mayor mayor I just want to make sure so we're going to get an ordinance coming coming forward councilman I have the floor you asked if anybody had a question are you compelled to I I am I am compelled just because I just want to know what our next step is yes so that's what I was about to say is the next step okay tell us the next step and then ask the next step is to write the ordinance with the 200 fet we can debate the 200 fet next time it sounds like Council there's a general consensus that we have a broken ordinance and it needs fixing that's correct that is correct Council can so uh Mr mer by we have an ordinance that's drafted and that's what I've been referring to as we go along it's actually actually in your packet right I I based upon this the suggestions I'd like to work with Amar on the penalty provision because I think there should be minimums in here and I think there should be increased penalties for multiple offenses great I would I would ask that Council try to move this at the next at least introduce it at the next ordinance you know we have litigation that's out there that's pending um this you know we need I would like to get this ordinance fixed um not saying that there's anything wrong with the current ordinance but I would like to I would like to do this I think it's helpful to us and I was compelled to ask you to do that yeah so I I can work with amarie for that to fix that penalty provision um and um like as I said the rest of the stuff that I've been reading to you is all stuff that's in the draft ordinance that's before you okay thank you is that yes approval of the minutes that's a yes okay approval of the minutes thank you director for your for your input yes thank you we're losing everyone now goodbye why they hang in this so don't you want to hear cannabis okay theyve had enough so Mr may I just like to comment that this is the reason why we don't have work sessions right right you put two of them on here here not one they were related approve well we needed to move as you've heard from the uh attorney we need we needed to move we needed to move the um noise ordinance and um and the special events permits needed to be moved minutes subm there are no minutes to submit to vote on approval of the warrants warrants and the amount of 5,691 18237 on October 8th 2024 repr present the township Council for payment do we have a motion on the warrants I move that the warrants is read be paid second second any discussion anyone we want to pull an item no Madam clerk councilman EMB Barrison yes councilwoman Francois yes councilman karazi yes mayor Kramer yes councilman Oni jaka yes Deputy Mayor pnik yes councilwoman councilman vasella yes councilman Wright yes um ordinance uh I'm sorry public hearing and Adoption of a second ordinances on second reading there are none ordinances on introduction and first reading um ordinance 44 4455 d24 amend the municipal code of the township of Franklin County of Summerset more particularly chapter 226 vehicles and traffic section 20 226 -13 parking prohibited at all times on certain streets uh at Oak old sorry Oak Brook Place the forgoing ordinance is presented the township Council for adoption on first reading posting and publication in accordance with law and public hearing and final adoption at a meeting of the township Council will be held on Tuesday October 22nd 2024 at 7.m on council chambers to have a motion to introduce so moved second mov in seconded so this may sound very familiar to people that's because we just passed it but there were errors in it so we're gonna pass it again uh any other discussion Madame clerk councilman EMB Barrison yes councilwoman franah yes councilman karazi yes mayor Kramer yes councilman Oni jaka yes Deputy Mayor pnik yes councilwoman Udin councilman vasella yes councilman rright yes ordinance number 44562 for an ordinance amending the code of the township of Franklin County of Somerset state of New Jersey with the new chapter 92 cannabis regulating retail cannabis dispensaries the foregoing earnan present Township Council for adoption of first reading publication with law and public hearing and final adoption in a meeting of Township Council to be held on Tuesday November 22nd 20124 at 7 p.m. do we have a motion to introduce October 22nd what I say sorry November November October 22nd thank you 2024 at 7 p.m. that's what it says here I apologize I'm sorry no no I I read it wrong okay it's my mistake motion to introduce so mov seconded move then seconded Mr Dominic I have nothing to vote comment go ahead yeah so um I have a comment on the Cannabis limitation um which I think is set in this to what 20 18 well 18 18 buted grandfathers in any that unconditional approval prior to the effective data mik I'm sorry trying to hear it it grandfathers in anybody who has a license an unconditional license that was approved prior to the effective date of the ordinance so in other words if you're on the agenda next week for the Cannabis Regulatory Commission and you're about to get an approval based upon everything that has happened up until this point in time before this ordinance you would also you would be grandfather in it's 18 could be a little bit more corre yes so I think it's good I sort of mixed opinions about it in some ways like it's good if you have a cannabis business because you're your golden you get an opportunity not so good if you wanted to start one up I don't know who those folks are generally for me I feel a little bit more like a free market person and I think for a lot of folks when they think about 18 cannabis dispensaries in a time when everyone's saying there's you know retail is dead you know we're hearing along a lot of areas that we don't shouldn't build retail or anything else like that and we have a growth of a retail industry it calls me into question about like are we trying to put the kabash on something where we could have good um you know residency and and business opportunities in town and we've heard from a lot of folks who have come here with really compelling stories about how they got involved um and I just you know want to remind my colleagues or just ask you know in the future if we see a lot more demand I would hope that we could come back and look at that cap and say well maybe it's time that we raise it in some sort of way um and I understand that we we may not want to have you know unlimit uh I guess one everywhere every square inch but I I do think it's Al important to recognize that Franklin Township is sort of special in that it has embraced the sale of cannabis when we're surrounded in our 47 Mile Square Mile town by communities that have it so if you start on our Western flank Hillsboro no to cannabis you go north uh piscatway no to cannabis you go a little bit Southeast New Brunswick very limited five three three shops almost 50,000 students at Rucker University I think we see a a lot along eastn Avenue that end of Hamilton Street go a little more south limitation on South Brunswick it's a few zero zero but that's allowed no not allowed okay North that's not what I saw that okay North Brunswick allowed South Brunswick not allowed so South Brunswick not allowed North Brunswick allowed but only a few yes and then Princeton no no so we see some cropping up in Kingston we see along 27 our border regions to these places that are cannabis deserts people that might need it for rec for medical use but they might be using it for recreational use and I think the the development and how we've seen marijuana dispenseries happen are along those perimeters where folks can't have access to them it's not like we're inundating Franklin people so the question like is it equal Toes or is it equal to liquor stores I mean you got to take the whole region into account add up like all of that so I I would just I'm going to be supportive of it because I understand that you know we're in a place right now where it seems like there's enough and we wonder if they can even sustain the ones that we have get that but if we see a growth I hope that we would look at this again and maybe raise the cap because it is good for our businesses to have a place to you know our communities to have businesses in them and them to to exist so I just wanted to put that on the record apprciate your time on that thank you so we're this will limit it to 18 with the stipulations that were mentioned uh cannabis retail spots not the grow not the processing retail and just for perspective uh Madam clerk could you tell us about the number of alcohol um the SP that are available yeah we have 18 consumption licenses nine distribution licenses eight hotels two clubs which equal 37 licenses for the alcohol retail with a possibility of four other consumption ones if we sold them so 18 Sayes sound like a lot but when you compare it to alcohol dispensing or availability it's roughly half I think it's also important to mention Mr Mayor that I I don't believe that any municipality in state of New Jersey other than Franklin Township did not put a cap on the number of retail establishments um in fact um currently we have more retail establishments than any other municipality in the state um I believe that the closest to us is actually Atlantic City who had eight I believe that the last count um that I saw on the State website um I I believe you know that even cities like newerk and Elizabeth um do not do not have unlimited numbers of of dispensaries so I I certainly don't think that this is unreasonable based on all of the you know the totality of the circumstances here um I find it interesting that only 165 municipalities I think 165 out of the 564 actually permit um uh retail dispensaries um given the fact that the state of New New Jersey passed with with a pretty overwhelming margin the legalization of cannabis this isn't a kind of a a I'm not cheering for it I'm I I I think some of you up here know my position on this overall and how I felt about it to begin with but nonetheless it's legal but but the there's been as the the deputy mayor you know stated only three of our surrounding municipalities um currently allow for dispensaries southbound Brook New Brunswick and North Brunswick that's it um we have far more than three surrounding municipalities um but nonetheless I don't know that you know the Franklin right should be the B you know the have the burden of all of the the businesses in our town perhaps some of those should loosen up their uh borders a little bit well I think what what really uh precipitated this and triggered this and preempted this is the fact that we felt that there was going to be somewhat of a oversaturation excess density on Hamilton Street I think the other issue councilwoman is that when this first came to light and we were first asked to decide this question um you I should say not but we collectively um the state of New Jersey made it perfectly clear at that time that there would be severe limitations on the number of licenses issued and the state of New Jersey now has kind of gone back on their word and begun to hand them out to anyone who qualifies which was never supposed to be the circumstance and we were anticipating a maximum of maybe three or four licenses not just every C person who applied to the state U for a license that had a location in Franklin was was going to be granted a license that's that's not the information that the state of New Jersey was putting out there through the the Cannabis Regulatory Commission just not what happened right and that's the reason why we didn't do any vetting we figured the state would do the vetting but we were told I'm going to I'm going to impose upon you Mr vorn Locker I don't know if you can answer this Can you estimate the revenue that the town will get so so way the way it looks right now I would estimate that this year will probably be in the $400,000 range um it maybe between 3 and 400 let's just say between three and three and 400 what I can tell you though is that the the it seems as if the actual demand you and and with some of the outliers like Kingston now coming up online this may change a little bit but in the northern part of the township those that opened first and ially saw large um a large Revenue uh that has steadily decreased the there there's been an equalization of the market um so and and I've kind of said this all along that the demand is going to be the the demand is going to be the demand um this is not a a product that's necessarily going to increase in demand dramatically over time but right now most of the dispensaries are seeing as more come online the existing ones are seeing a little bit of a decrease as the new ones come online so that the the total amount is kind of equaling out um I I think that what you're going to see is that it it really will be you know when Supply equals demand anything any Supply Beyond the demand is going to fail that's what that's what I think will happen here I always had one question can I just follow up on that number can you put that in a percentage of budget so 4 so I was about to oh good thank you so to put it in perspective $400,000 if we were to raise taxes that much to make $400,000 would be roughly 1% tax increase one point so we're saving 1% of of tax increase it's this year I think that that's probably right about where this will fall um councilman right coun right d to get in here um my question was and councilman at large uh Fran brought it up my concern as the councilman Bo M okay sorry let's hold it up to your yeah my my concern was as the councilman the four w i saw um the explosion of Cannabis stores and the thing that bothered me was as Miss franois said on Hamilton Street which has become our new through has become our new Mini downtown I believe because we have more Apartments coming online and I wanted to make sure that's why we're doing the traffic study is that I need things to level out I I can't just keep you know boom here's the latest thing we want taxes we want to do something stick it over my neighborhood um and I wanted to make sure that in the future we as a council 10 years from now I'm not here but we can control what we allow going on in our Township miss samarie our municipal clerk Municipal master clerk when she brought up uh when she named the the liquor licenses we're not being uh anti- capitalist or anything of that nature we're being what's the word pragmatic or something we actually uh want to control ourselves now the liquor license are controlled by the state you have to have so many people before you can actually get a liquor license well if you look at the number of people we have versus the number of dispensaries we definitely blown that out the water okay um and two weeks ago we came in and three weeks ago excuse me three meetings ago about a liquor license and how they wanted to circumvent the law and put it closer than what we wanted it to be and that was a no um because if they could do it anybody else could do it and um I just think that now is the time to actually look at what we're doing pay attention to it which we've been doing and uh stop for now giving out licenses until we get a you know get a good handle on it um and again like Miss franois said I uh I started watching that stuff grow and I believe I have Mr Dominic how many want to pop up in my neighborhood so there are five Hamilton Street um licenses that have been uh allowed and I also have three one on uh Hamilton and uh Frank um uh Franklin Boulevard I'll have one on uh Franklin Boulevard and Fuller Street and then I have another one down by shopping stop shopping stop ver Veronica and I'm just saying um somewhere along the line enough is enough um and I'm going to be ugly when I say this throw that on the other side of town I I I just can't feel with I talked to Mr Dominic about that to ad nauseum because I talked him every day um so I'm glad we're taking this step I think it's a first step and a beautiful step and that's it okay so I just need Clarity so we have 18 right now and we might have a couple on the pipeline but then this says the max number is 18 no the 18 is includes the pipeline oh includes it okay thank you um and just for no so actually that's not correct so we have eight 18 licenses currently in the township of Franklin and the the remainder would be grandfathered in in exess of 18 if they receive a a unconditional license by the adoption of this ordinance and so and we say that because there is a cannabis Regulatory Commission meeting between this meeting tonight and our next council meeting on 22nd there could be a license approved at that meeting for a location here in Franklin Township that would then be allowed under this ordinance in exess of the 18 and that verbiage is in the in the language and you can in the ordinance and you can bet when word of this gets out and it's already creeping out they will be lobbying to be passed at the next meeting uh goad you have something oh your mic is on um and just for uh complet list the Veronica Avenue facility is a grow facility not a retail um anyone else it's a grow facility it's not a retail facility anyone else and grow facilities aren't covered under this okay um so we motion to introduce in a second we've had discussion Madam clerk councilman EMB Barrison yes councilwoman Francois yes councilman karazi yes mayor Kramer yes councilman Oni Chaka yes Deputy Mayor basnik yes councilwoman uden yes councilman vasella yes councilman Wright I'm going to do the township manager said you know how I feel about it yes item number 15 consent agenda items a through I no l as listed in the consent agenda portion of the meeting represen the township Council for adoption do we have a motion seconded moved in seconded any discussion so I will just point out that there's an item about the police department participating in defense Logistics agency in other words getting Surplus military um equipment it does not include weapons it is is bulletproof vest first aid equipment CS CS blankets no tank does not include weapons no tanks no tanks the it it could involve though High uh high clearance vehicles that could be used in flood evacuations that so there are vehicles that could possibly be obtained any other comments Adam clerk councilman AB Barrison yes councilwoman frad councilman karazi yes mayor Kramer yes councilman Oni Chaka Deputy Mayor basnik yes councilwoman udine yes councilman bassella councilman Wright yes resolutions to be voted on separately we have one one uh authorizing the submission of Grant application Edward Brier by burn bur burn thank you Memorial Justice assistance grant Jag program local solicitation any uh do I have a motion a moe second then seconded any comments Madam clerk councilman EMB Barrison yes councilwoman France V councilman Kazi yes mayor Kramer yes councilman Oni jaka Deputy Mayor pnik councilwoman uden councilman vasella yes councilman Wright yes Dr karazi I know you have some uh committees to for nominations yes Mr Mayor we have uh two applicants for The Advisory Board of Health one is a junior one and one is just a regular applicant and Kimberly M Kimberly Banks uh who is applying for a uh one of the positions that we have open and uh Miss uh Miss Fatima BNA is applying for the junior position that we have in open in The Advisory Board of Health I would like uh to uh nominate them and get the council's approval for uh these two to join the advisor Board of Health please are there any other nominations for those positions are there any other nominations for other positions Mr Mayor there is one other but we're going to wait on that till next time okay so then we can do this by acclamation all in favor say I I oos say nay motion is carried congratulations two of you do we have a motion there's no executive session do we have a motion to oburn seconded for my discussion on that a very fruitful and somewhat enjoyable meeting we are about that