##VIDEO ID:gGtUyUMXUr0## you it's a subtle hint it's uh 6 PM so we can get started for uh town and free town planning board meeting Tuesday uh November 12th 2024 uh please let the record reflect that all the members are here um first order business continued definitive subdivision 32 middleb Road and zero Claremont Way applicant James Simmons Simmons development Incorporated owner Edmund Richard Armand and Robert Claremont representative Jason youngquist Outback engineering Incorporated scope of work eight lot subdivision is Mr youngquist here yes I am would you like to uh give us the lowdown absolutely the way we're going to do this is they're gonna present the the subdivision to the board we have questions and I will open it up to the public if we have questions afterwards go so I'm Jason Young from engineering James Simons um usually the plans up on the screen are we doing that or either way whatever works for you I have the plans okay I see them right there that's why I just didn't know which way which one do yep no it's fine I don't know why it's not connecting I was bring full set just in case just in case I didn't I left easel in the it was working earlier I see yeah I don't know why it's not I see it from the truck that was your few minutes feet yeah got to talk quickly uh while we're waiting any is anybody taping this meeting at all we are taping it and there uh is there somebody on on over Zoom um I think there was someone we are taping it yeah we go go ahead motion to open we're continuing this um yeah I I'm I'm new with this so uh sure I'll need a motion in a second to uh to reopen the uh the definitive subdivision at 32 middleb road I'll make a motion to open it second motion's been made in second all those in favor signify by saying I hi hi now you can go all right so Jason Outback engineering here with the app James Simons um and this is Claremont Way an extension of the existing Claremont Way um this was subdivision that was before the board a few years back um so it's just a reiteration of that it's a 16.6 acre parcel located the address is 32 MB road but it's actually off Claremont way it's in the General Ed zoning District as well as the residential zoning District the zone line Cuts right through the middle of the property um it's a wooded carsel um lot one has the existing house on it with its lawn and driveway and garage but the rest of property is all wooded generally slopes from the from the um South to the north it's a gentle Hill sloping down and there's Wetlands areas to the um to the west side of prop lots have all been perked to Sandy Sandy LOM soil perp rates generally between 10 20 minutes Bridge as I mentioned the applicant proposing to extend Claremont Way in additional 600 feet to provide Frontage and access for eight proposed house Lots which includes the existing house as well proposed Lots would have individual septic systems and private Wells and we're proposing a drainage system for all additional run up that would be generated by the the additional payment for the new um this Bas in size for over the 100e storm event um original design we did for 100e storm event as required by Master management policy but at our conservation meeting we met with the butter to the north who has the Cranberry Bogs who was concerned about you know what if it's more than 100 years school so you know livelihood is the the BS and additional rain and flooding would affect that so we increased the size with the revised plans the size of the drain Basin so now it can hold over a 10 inch storm 100-year storm vend is right around eight and a half inches now we can take care of it over a 10 inch 10 and a half inch storm so we've increased the size of the dra Basin significantly Beyond well beyond what's required by by the storm water management policy we analyze 210 25 50 100e storm events to make sure we weren't increase in offsite flows flow rates or volumes for any of the storm events sometimes when you take care of the bigger ones you you know you inadvertently increase your flow on the small smaller ones but we analyze it for everything to make sure even when you have the smaller rements we're not impacting any of the butters the Basin is primarily a infiltration Basin off the stored slowly um infiltrated back into the groundwater but some water is released to the wetlands and again we analyze to make sure we weren't increasing the flow to those wetlands and actually we're reducing that way going that way to the wet yes y we've actually reduced flow that goes toland make sure that we weren't to impact any of the ABS but especially the to the north with cranber box the conservation great concern about additional water water going towards there so we want to make sure that would not happen with this development um these BRS are review by your consultant um they had a a list of revisions that they requested environmental Partners um we've made those revisions plans have been sent back those are plans before you there um and we're waiting for environmental Partners to review our revisions and have see if they have any additional comments we've also been before conservation um had an initial hearing presented the project to them and again they're waiting to here back you know the final final set of plans final set of revisions from enir Partners so obviously we we're waiting to hear back from the consultant but we just definitely want to get front of the board see if you had any additional comments or questions that we could address while we're doing any final revisions that we might be Mak uh I have I have a couple I just are you going to be looking to have the town accept this as a road yes yeah there was there's a list of waivers and I know um EPG has has come back and you've come back with questions on that I was not able I only got the stuff today so I wasn't able to really look at the new plans but under waiver requests on your email I noticed that you said three of them have been removed and there was 13 originally and there's still 13 so yep there was some additional ones that were add okay for and in general they're not things that would not allow the roadway to proceed it just makes it more uh in more in conformance with the surroundings you know you're asking for instead of a 30 foot roadway down to 24 um I think you know 30 foot roadway back to get to those house Lots would be um no just too much Road um it's a dead end Road and then there's the additional waivers you know one is to have the plan at a 50 scale so you can see it all in one sheet instead of 40 scale and then so it's just it's w like that so you added you added some from the first yep okay that's that's I just did the arithmetic and you know 13 minus three didn't equal 13 I did it's the new maap yeah um and for people that EPG is the Consultants we use that go over the plans with a fine tooth com it's paid for by the applicant and we rely on them to come up with any issues that that that the board is not able to um to figure out or we don't have the skill set to do that um and there a little back and forth with the with the developer and um at the end if there's some issues that that that they can't resolve then that's up to us to say yay or nay on say waiver requests or things like that um before I before I um I just have one other quick question did did the fire chief say anything about the roadway going being too narrow in the front there got one other thing too we have not heard any comments from or have anything provided from them but again we're widening that poer stretch the initial 600t I'm sorry the initial 500 ft is going to be widen into the 24t width from Route 18 down right now yeah we were widen it we're gonna we're going to replace the whole thing yeah because we did a site visit here yeah you guys long time I went to a site visit here a long time this was already a whole yeah done deal back in 2017 or something it was all done and that's what that was in it we were widening exting road so we basic you know basically we're not looking for anything that we hadn't already been presented to the board yeah back in obviously 17 you know what I mean yeah I remember I do have one other question if you look at the the the maps I think this lot here has a sliver that goes down and it's actually Frontage on there is that true that going to be an issue that is not true yeah say okay because it's it's shown on the GIS maps that was found from purchaser okay for the record could you state your name thank you thank you okay no that's been found before not sure where that came from it's on the map if you highlight that show it all the way down to there on I have the original plot plan I the original from when when the bot was purchased from Mar Road there that stat yeah our survey did not come up with that okay yeah I don't know where that's come from it's really it's strange that it shows up on some not all yeah it show up randomly back nicolea supplied us with something that do a little sliver on some map dated 1973 plan and profile a proposed new roadway well if the surveying doesn't show it and you don't I'm not I'm not I wasn't going to worry about it okay so those are kind of my initial questions that I had I'll open up to the board for any other questions they might want anybody big thing on this I remember was the water hearing from them it's the big thing for us why we increase the size of our dra Bas that was a big that was a big where he lost that but I addressed him and I asked him in the poot what what do you need what you know we be a good name work work with everybody I'm just trying to get the development to go through and and everybody appease yeah everybody the best I can you know down keep going that one so this you beat this up at all or this was based on your feedback from that's increased significantly that was that was a problem here anybody have any other questions question about the s on it so we've taken the S out as part of this was a sale that was deflect went off before got to the development so we've taken that out and increase the size of the drain Bas and do count for any off that would be heading this way yeah we anybody else have any questions further I would then I'd open it up to the public if somebody wants to ask a question just state your name for the record sure gentleman there my name is Frank asley 26 Road and 52 road with Father Frank uh everything here evolves around water I have list of issues and we'll start with I have up by approximately 1500 ft and that does change up depending on what set of plans you look at whether you look at this set of plans the one from 2017 that Mr trickell wrote up or the set of plans that we have that Mr Cass wrote for our own property all the footages seem to be different uh corner to corner and then also some of the dog heads specifically the dog legs on the longest piece of property the dog legs appear to be in different positions and at different angles and at different lengths not sure what that's all about why all three don't Jive within a couple inches but here or there the main issue is water and I have up by 1500 ft and I catch all of the water from every direction these properties the water that crosses this property a portion of it starts from Pine Court Pine Court is an issue it was developed and no retention form was ever put in how that was ever allowed to happen don't know there was bylaws there was state laws it didn't happen we have to live with it we went to the town we were told nothing we can do about it not out like that's nice thanks so we went to the feds to the state to the feds we have directed A portion of that water that comes off Pine Court that comes down and it crosses let's see the back side of shepher Tony I Tony last name and then also am's property and then it crosses Ambrose's property the largest portion Ambrose Ambrose's property we catch it in a 24 in pipe which I have pictures in a 2 to 3 in rainstone that 24 in bipe completely F it's maxed out anything over that a rainstorm it floods into our bar which has another 24 inch pipe which then floods out a reservo which has a 36 in pipe which floods out my backyard because King Road only has a 12 inch and a 10 inch pipe 10 and 12 inch pipe that that's 36 in speed okay so now that's that's the general layout how the water flows now let's get to the retention Pond the retention Pond right now currently as it sixs sits at an elevation of 84 ft our cranberry box sits at an elevation of 78 ft which means that the bottom of his pit is six feet above hours at 78 feet which is where our cranber is there is a restricted layer of clay I know because it's on it so when is water infiltration in 72 hours which is a requirement from 16 acres plus all the water that it catches from Pine cord is now going to be condensed into approxim and a half of a retention form and has to infiltrate the ground at an elevation of 84 which is going to go right down to the restricted layer of 78 which is where my cranberry B is and that's going to seep into our cranberry now we started into Old issue thing when water retention seeping with infiltration into my cranberry bar it starts with phosphorus and nitrogen they're reducing it by 60% which is good but I'm not allowed to discharge any so if I'm accepting 40% of his phosphorus what am I supposed to do with that 40% of Fus because my discharge goes down to Lake Street Lake Street is water of Beverage water wars right it's public water so I can't release phosphorus of nitrogen Downstream they have no uh ability or no infrastructure in plan that I saw to remove nitrogen from the water and everybody knows cranber grows have proved it that we don't release nitrate Downstream because we don't use much we I use 16 pounds the nitrogen bonds are the problem they put it on constantly all Su that pre Green Grass and that infiltrates down I don't have a problem with that but if I start to collect that nitrogen it creates a problem for me and there's two ways I'm going to get it one through infiltration through the pit number two he changes Direction of the Overflow the Overflow always went out let's see the east side now it's going out the west side so the East Side would have gone out would have flooded my pasture and drained directly into my cranber going out the west side which dumped into that Wetland which is an issue because that Wetland is what crosses Ambrose's property through a pipe because he has a pipe carried in the ground which then comes to my 24 in bike which is already maxed out in a 2 to 3 inch range so when that overflows I have no place for that water to go and that water is coming to me because that Wetlands crosses Ambrose's property right straight to M it comes right out the corner I have pictures of V flow I have the pipes I have all the paperwork that the USDA did to protect me from the First Development cost me I know 30 30,000 plus and that was in 2008 2008 or 2010 I we started that in 2012 the fil in 20 2012 I believe it was 2021 and the one in 22 my pipes couldn't handle it I have  it overflow my reservoir it overflowed my cranber BL it overflowed the drainage pipes coming in and uh I just can't hand more water and that water that's going to cross Ambrose's property has no place to it's got to come because it can't cross R te so I think there's only like a 10 inch pipe cross and that's restricted because of the the water Ms coming from the treatment plant to the new water they have two water Lin and that's they can't get any deeper because the pipes there so they can't put a bigger pipe that's an is and I think elevation has something to do with it too yeah that gets to the Overflow Ambrose's property the 72 infiltration if you're taking 16 Acres of water and you're infiltrating it along with the stuff that's coming from Pine C condensing it to an acre and a half whatever that is approximately that when it infiltrates in 72 hours it's going to be a drastic amount of water dumped on to me whereas before when it was just trees and Forest and everything else it took days right it took days to sink in hit the clay layer and then slowly migrate my way and I don't know how many trees I most trees Su around 400 gallons a day on in the summer that they absorb right the amount of trees that are there of water they absorb in dispers back up into the air is a that's not going to happen anymore roof drops driveways pav all that comes down into the retention for now we get into we have the phosphorus and the Nitric covered now we have fuel oil oil gasoline and other chemicals so in order to grow fresh fruit or fruit for human consumption you have to part what's called G good practices I have all this stuff right here from tias Zero Tolerance on on products of control zero there Zero Tolerance if I test positive for gasoline oil or anything they reject my fruit I have to pay to have it disposed of and avoids my my contract so in a retention form water comes up the is going to float through the surface right up discharge and down when infiltrates down through is going straight down through to the play layer and dispos into the ditch of M crry B which is at 78 when the retention PL at 84 SO gas and oil are a huge noo that'll actually destroy my ability to grow a CR and that's through deas and also the uh FDA FDA refers it back to good agricultural practices which then applies it to deas um ifda has standards on everything of of how much is as a a taller amount that we can be exposed to and for de is at zero no petroleum products whatsoever and I'm regulated on everything else every chemical you can think regulate on and test it on because it's food I have so and when it comes to that discharge that water that goes out goes into my reservoir which is water I use on the cranber so Hand in Hand That discharge so the discharge becomes an issue and event 100e storm which we've had I don't know I can count at least five or six we've had two 500e storms in the last 10 years so that 100e storm Theory thing I don't know in or there double a sword whatever you want to call it um see got all the water issues and the water issues coming off the 2016 road that water actually flows out the end of my driveway on 2016 road so when we get a heavy rain if you go to 2016 Road you'll see a river coming out the end of my driveway and if you follow that River up it goes up into the clam property and up towards Pine for and it's through a pine Ro right all 2016 road is all a pine it's all Big Pine Grove and O just like but that water that's how much water comes off that Hill a lot a lot of people don't realize how much water truly comes off that Hill side that Hillside continues all the way up into new it all Cycles down all the water Frome 18 all comes down and all discharges on the east side ofe 18 which unfortunately it all comes to me and and nothing personal against him but to allow him to have a job for a couple of years to ruin my livelihood and the generations following these livelihood doesn't seem fair I have a whole bunch of things on the wavers but I assume that's going to come down the road because we have to wait on a peer review the results of all that and I don't want to get started with that until we know truly what's going to happen and then I can make my decisions and options to continue from there that's all I have on the water issues that I can think of on the top of my head right now I have all the pl downloaded I've done I've been there for 50 years 40 plus years I've been an agriculture on that piece of property itself and I understand how the water flows there I can drill a hole at two feet almost anywhere my profit and hit water when get that restrict play almost always water there now the moment a had rain in 60 plus days really Prett dry but normally I can hit it I have fence post when I dig them I hit water all the time my fence post always rock as they sit in water on that restricted play and it's unfortunate we have the restrictive layer if it wasn't there maybe we wouldn't have so much water issues but there's no place for water to go with downhill unfortunately cross that's that's my say until we get the PE that I appreciate your time well thank you for your uh concerns I'll I'll ask uh uh the engineer here Jason if you can respond to any of that and give us some comments yeah so we've gone through great extents to obviously there's flooding issues on the abing properties we've gone through great extents so the construction of these seven homes and the additional 600 feet of roadway will not increase uh any of his flooding issues and in a in a sense it will it'll help reduce his flooding issues because we're going to take some of that water and put it into our drainage basin that has been oversized um so you have less less water going to their Wetlands to the wetlands that flow down downhill to his property we've done mounding Cals on our infiltration Basin to make sure that um as that water is absorbed doesn't create a mound and go out onto the Abundant property and again so that's going to get infiltrated it's going to go down to the groundwater and it's not going to raise the groundw it's not there's nowhere near enough water that you're going to raise the ground water elevation um treatment of any of the runoff um we have seven single family homes you're not going to have gases and oils or anything like that the whole site is surrounded by junkyards and auto automobile repair shop so I'm sure any oils and gases going to be coming from them not us but again the runoff from the roadway is treated we have deep some hooded catch basins to make sure any ref floatable oils and gases do not get out two siment full Bas where additional settling vetting sediment um will occur before the water gets into the infiltration Basin so we're not going to be polluting whether it's through phosphorus nitrogen um oils gases or anything like that it's not going to be be uh polluted by the construction of these seven hes um there is going to be some Lawns um but again nitrogen for if they're going to fertilize their lawns that's based on the nitrogen that they you know the bag of izer that they're using for that that's not going to impact um the groundwater so we feel that the construction of these seven homes in the additional roadway will not make the situation worse it will help it to an extent as you know you know rains and we have not had 100 years storm event uh you know ever um that's eight and a half inches of rainfall in 24 hours it has not occurred um the biggest storms we had in 2010 when all that flooding was going on was not a 100-year storm event it was a two-year storm followed by a 10year storm followed by another twoyear storm quick succession they were within a week apart of each other and in that instance all your low areas were all flooded that water could not be taken care of but your drainage bases um that are designed for a 100e storm event did not over toop they're functioned as designed because you did not have on it just little um so again you know the rain two Ines on this property some of it gets absorbed the breust flows off site downhill that's our predevelopment conditions that we analyze and then when that same two inches of rain falls it doesn't create more rain it's the same amount of rain just some is not absorbed because there's impervious surfaces you have some roofs and you have some roadway so we have to take that water that's not getting absorbed because you have an impervious area and let it get absorbed which is the function of the infiltration basic so you're not generating more water during the storm you're just making sure that what's not infiltrated because of your impropriate surfaces are now infiltrated you do that that with an infiltration Basin which we have oversized to to take care of any additional runoff that might be coming in we analyzed it based on offsite flows coming down from the subdivision to the South so we're taking that is analyzed in part of the per Pinewood Court y we're not going in there and clearing all these Lots um your name please ma'am J so my name is James Simmons once again and that like she's saying that's not our intention we don't we're not a clear-cut build company so if you look at any of the homes that we built which we've built several over the last five years I'd say a good 65 to 75% of the trees we try to keep I know he made up are you selling in like each LW and then letting the people or do you guys know spe we're going to do the houses so you don't plan on cutting all the I have control I'm I'm G to keep control over this whole thing yeah I'm not GNA let somebody come in there and clear cut this entire property and make it look like an airport yeah I mean you know not for argument sake one person can come in here and buy the whole thing C kind of make a a Big Field out of the whole thing you know what I mean that's not my objective I want place when I do I've done a lot of single lot subdivisions you know where one lot clearing out the lot I place the house I keep the trees as much as you can yeah you know what I mean and that's my intentions with this it's not to go through and clearcut all these beautiful I mean if you've been there there's there's some gorgeous trees there you you don't want to cut down trees that been 60 70 80 years old you know what I mean I mean obviously some trees are going to have to come down don't get me wrong but once again it's not my intention nor will it be done that we're going to go in there and clearcut everything yeah yes we're going to have to cut where the houses go and and you know keep it clear within a certain extent around the house but you know just for argument sake it's not you know I mean I've seen developers go in there and make a mess you know what I mean go through they just wipe every tree out and and you got an airport and that's just not how we're we're not approaching this development that way what you're developing it for the owners I'm developing it for myself you're purchasing it I'm purchasing it and developing it yes okay I want to have total control so this way it's not a Runway strip and every tree isn't wiped out yeah I don't know if you saw anything else before I get back to you is there anybody else that would like to speak on this from the public yes [Music] ma'am I'm not not an engineer so trying to read all the symbols and everything on PL can get a little daunting can someone point to me where the catch Basin are in the existing roadway not if they're going to be upgrading the existing Road somebody point to me where those catch Bas are are they going to be anywhere on here the exis existing proposed proposed page has Armon spell wrong that's new you have any clues where the current ones are can you no understand understand that's in the middle of David there's one there one right mdle okay so are there any so you're saying there's one here that's the first set so so I have some concerns with that um that's current though nothing oh there's no curent there is no current okay I missed my spoke yeah we're upgrading the existing Ro yeah yeah yeah no but I thought the question was where the existing one is but Mis interpret where they're going to be on the existing Road I guess no that's fine that's fine on the new road so the concern that I have is the corner of our property that um ABS Mr Vegas property um that whole Corner that kind of Trifecta y right there um Mr Vega unfortunately over the years has clearcut that entire property as well as just you know moved a lot of dirt and everything since then we have had an extensive water problem in that corner that has repeatedly flooded over the road washed out the road several times and ALS Al um Clow into Tony's property right there so our concern is that any you know anything that's done to the road without addressing that kind of corner piece with some type of drain um is going to ultimately it's it's not going to solve any of the problem because the water is coming off of Vegas property there's kind of like a dip there so there's no place for it to go SPS up and then it spills over and it eventually actually floods the backyard of to property um repeatedly um we've taken some steps to to mitigate a little bit on the front of our property with you know kind of bringing it up and putting the the you know repaving the driveway but if it starts in the middle of our property that won't deal that will really handle that particular event and I'm sure sorry I'm giving you more water always more water there's always more water and and that's um that's been a concern I mean I have pictures going back to where I mean it was literally like shindy you had to go out with like Mii boots in order to get through the water at that point um so that's one of the concerns that we have just making sure that that goes further down um in order to be able to catch any of that that's AAR problem we can't force that that's like sticky situation when they were proposing to do a soul yeah what was the outcome of that Kevin was on the board at the time he was on during this there was a big there was a lot more on that that was a water problem separate from this yeah separate and that was like they had said but the company yet know that they had even acknowledge that it was a it was a problem they were what they were looking to do was move water across yeah across way into the wetlands over there by putting a under adding another cul right that what they was proposed yeah nothing happened from there dissolved at that point um and I will say that back in you know 2016 and 2017 the water problem Mr Vegas property was very early um in that issue um back when the original plans were put in he had clearcut it but he we hadn't really gotten the effect of all the stuff that was going on he's also now laying Road millings that are a continued concern for more of those water issues so again anything that is done to form up way um without addressing that front side ofont way will likely create um some water issues down down the way um the other thing that I just wanted to clarify is the CT that is currently in between for's four this one yeah so the CT that runs there's like a little screen yeah just making sure that that's that's upgr right yeah that's all upgr he's making it bigger be oversized oh um for the retention fond this is this is the mom and me we have a small child that us I'm will also be a lot of young children um what well I mean it's one it's on private property and two it's I don't believe it holds water for that long I mean it's it's meant to disperse the water into the ground you know what I mean it's not meant to it's actually not a swimming pool it's not going to we we have to have you talk I apologize problem yeah thank you yeah so that is a it's an infiltration Basin it's required to drain in 72 hours it doesn't hold the pool of water permanently so you get water in there after rains few days afterwards it's G safety issue in the's an outlet a little lower so it's not deep cool water it's Max that's it's not going to be like a 5 foot deep ever no no that's that's f um that was my question there um the other question I have is around the utilities so in the in the plans I noticed that there's a couple of places where they're saying there's underground utilities will those extend the entire length of clemont way or only in the new section so ofont Claremont Way has utility poles at the moment and those are going to stay um and we would tie in underground yeah for the extension it did it did I did notice on the plan where it said that the utility FS were going to be relocated but I didn't see where they would be relocated to are they going to remain on they just have they have to be scooted over a little bit because they're uh right next of the road down the road to required so they'll on the same side further and again any changes that that would be part of uh the final save from that comes from if they would like to move their pole somewhere else You' have to adjust your plans based on that how far how far up to poity that s that uh they come up almost to the distant house one we're Ty there you be Ty in there for the C act do you have any thoughts on this water here it's a low area on bigas property we can't do anything about that there's a low area there if he cut all his trees then water's going to gather there it's uh if it does get into the roadway it's going to be carried down um down the road into our catch Basin and into the drain system because that all pitches towards those catch Bas pitching from middle Bor road down to our catch Bas but again off site low spot can't do anything yeah so is there an opportunity to add an additional catch Bas in that corner I mean if you're putting one in front of our property is there an opportunity to put one like in between the end of Middle Road and our property because now I'm more concerned that all that water is now going to end up in my front yard nope it's not going to leave the roadway it's going to stay in the roadway and go in the catch BAC and down to the infiltration B it's at the minimum water flows downhill so what's the elevation of Road staying the same or going up or down uh it's relatively the same relatively doesn't there's a couple inch difference I believe not much there's an inch change here and there Up and Down based because it's not the road there is not flat boun up and down so it's makes it a continuous L within you know few inches of the existing if the roadway is elevated at all the water will begin cool on my property it already happens roadway is elevated at all from where it currently sits in that corner so water Willow on our property the last thing that I do want to mention is with the existing private way our understanding is that there's currently no he's in a right of way on the existing roadway um several years ago prior to my mother-in-law's passing she hired with town and was told something along the lines of that we own the middle of the room as a grandfather um ordinance of some sort um we have we haven't had a chance to really Research into it but we are concerned about the portion of prop that is between the existing roadway um and our house it's something that my husband has been maintaining for 50 years he's lived there his entire life there's a magnilia tree there's grass there's sections of of a driveway that we've recently um redone so um I know that that was a concern in previous plans that were drawn up foris what's the concern conc currently on our there is no right there's nothing documented so from what we understand is that because there's no right of way and we don't own way right we don't own clont way I should say that's owned by Third that because there's no right ofo documented on our title or on our it's assumed that we own to the center line of the in order to have access to our home we we haven't heard how that private way is actually owned by the same people on 32 M so now it's going to become a public way that's part of public yeah so it can become a public way as part of the sub public way a town accepted road is what you want to yeah so it's it's a 40 foot right away existing um once we get past the existing home it becomes a 50 right away for the only subdivision rules and regulations so is that acceptance of the road done prior to construction or after after so what what happens if the road is not accepted by the town we hold money in a bond we hold money in a bond till it's done we don't like like Let It Go till it's signed off accepted stamp and then they get the money back okay so it never get signed off accepted has to they're going to have a significant amount of money more than say Road whatever it comes back goes to bid and N based off that quote how much money gets put in what happen in between as there is no right way there is a right way yeah you have a right away I think you have a right to your property no matter what right right to get to your property so I don't I honestly don't know that's I have no idea how that works that's been the general consensus a lot of people that we asked this came up with the with previous buyer as well and this was a sticking point of the last sale the in 2017 subdivision yes one of the reasons understanding it should have been included in initial plans with surveys so that's why again we've gotten mixed information from a lot of people because this is obviously a very complicated situation yeah um but we've heard from some people that it should be included in the plans as part of the subdivision we've heard other you know that we can't be landlock so we're just bringing it up here in the hopes that one of you knew but apparently that doesn't seem to be the case um but again our biggest concern is you know similar to Mr Ashley in that there is a lot of water that pools around these properties we currently have three Sun PS in our basement that run every single time there's even a light mist so um you know ensuring that we have proper drainage that any additions or improvements to the road are done so so that it does not to the detriment of our property um and that it doesn't make the situation worse than what we're currently okay Dave I cany some of that go ahead yeah so to finish what Chris said if they were not to finish a road and get the approv the town has that money and the town would finish to us specs and get approv oh okay and also I currently with with a right away you don't technically own the road everybody that would have a right away would own it until it becomes like a public way or something like that so even if they in the middle of construction they can't block you out of your road if that's what you're worried about to get to your property you still have the right away here you don't own it but you have the right away they can't stop you from you know coming through to get to your house okay well as I said the reason why we bringing this up with because the last buyer it was the ninth hour and they came and say you need to sign this because their attorneys had stopped their attorneys had stopped the sale to say hey you need walk on way to sign off on this e and right away access again yeah that was that was what we were approached with unfortunately during the negotiations my mom passed yeah and everything was kind of put on hold so by bylaws is probably state law too there if there were to be a house approved back here they would automatically have right away through buy your property to get there so they wouldn't be land right no I agree with I'm just saying that we were here once before I wasn't it wasn't brought up at nobody known about it was brought up again when they were trying to close yeah is there a house on this this lot here yes that's it do they still they have the same problem Carol flont six FL way U that is my L six FL way I don't have any problems with it at all okay but they're part of the same they're also part of [Music] the2 they're all part of so this is part of this whole piece here well the person that yeah so the person that lives is at six road is also part of the trust one of the four brothers that is part of the trust that 32 middle World Road see we are for clont Road clont way we are not part of the trust and we are not part of the the sellers okay all gotcha anything else go ahead Chris you want to say something anything else I think thank you want 52 2016 in also so I'll start off with the junkyard comment I find impulsive I'm on a junkyard I'm a farm I have nothing on my property Ambrose has some stuff on his property but I monitor that water on a regular basis to make sure that I'm not getting anything infiltrated from his property so if he wants to direct that Ambrose's property he can I don't expect him to comment on my property I've done nothing but try to maintain good property with good hygiene and good water practices because it's required to be an agriculture right it's required now I can't dispose of stuff down stream anymore just can't do it so the the 2012 storm that we had we're better prior to 2012 but in 2012 we had to do a reconstruction on the back side of our cranberry BL because of heavy rain it actually slued out the and from The Heavy Rain that got down on the playay later it actually slued out the dice we had to reconstruct the entire back D and also the back side of our Reservoir that blew out because when that blew out pushed all the water out into the reservoir the res and that is all ferally documented and federal usba FSA nrcs engineer engineer what we had to do to fix that to Wi raise everything um so the 72-hour infiltration they've all said it multiple times that it puts all that water into the catch Bas or into the retention point which is that's his job the problem is is it puts it all there it has to infiltrate within 72 hours which then dumps 16 Acres of water plus the water from B property that's now going to be added to it plus all the water that's coming off by court and it's all going into catch SP retention Point that's right directly above my per by 6et 6t of elevation and a clay layer there so they've all said it it adds to the water that water is all adding to me which is the problem and unfortunately to fix all his problems with water just makes mine worse every time you fix a problem Upstream it just makes mine worse because all you're doing is condensing the water and making it move faster so unless you can skip the water over my property and unfortunately over three of my properties they're all in that corner and then everybody Downstream all the way to Lake Street it's not fair to ruin my livelihood and my children's livelihood and my grandchildren's livelihood that my grandfather my great-grandfather my great great uncle all started before me so that he can have a job that was the cration his bricks is oh and the bankruptcy thing that's all fine with Dandy you put money in a bond he starts a development that's uneconomical it financially doesn't make sense it doesn't work everybody who's tried this has backed out because it doesn't work so he gets started he goes bankrupt for three years leaves a mess you guys have a bond to do whatever but in the meantime my livelihood is gone I can't bring it back it's jump right once you ruin my livelihood I can't get it back I have to fight day in and day out to keep my livelihood to keep agriculture in our town on that property and if he goes bankrupt and not even just because of this project it could be anything that causes him to go bankrupt or anything where do where do I stand I'm the victim and there's nobody protecting me the planning board K Kong Mass D USDA FSA nrcs are all there to protect people from other people doing things to negative negatively affect other people and this project unfortunately not to his fault or to The cl's Fault is going to negatively affect me my kids my grandkids and every generation after me that wants to continue agriculture in that area and then not just me also Downstream we have Nate who's on the corner which he's not in the butter Tony which I guess he's not legally in the butter because he's across the street he's affected Shephard's affected Ambrose was horribly affected by this then if we cross Keen Road there houses across road that that are going to continue to be affected when all that water right because I have to get rid of the water it has to cross my property well it's going to go to the next person Downstream and it's not fair to them and that's one of the reason I haven't pushed the issue about te road because if I push the issue about pean Road of putting an 18 or a 36 inch pipe across pan Road it's going to flood out the next guy so by by by putting pipes on clont way to remove the water above him just makes the problem more Dam right it not only wors as in the amount of water but how fast it gets there that water is going to travel from Vegas property Route 18 the property from pport all the way to me in less than 72 hours now whereas before it took a couple weeks which is a huge concern when there's only a 6ot elevation [Music] restri I take okay thank you does anybody else want to add anything to this the board go ahead oh sorry ma'am your name please I'm I yeah right here I'm way up I'm not that's John Vega I'm up I'm not I'm here because this is my neighborhood and it matters yeah um I just have clarifying questions because I moved in in 2015 so I had no idea about any of this taking place prior um so I guess my first question is why didn't the development happen in 2017 it was a solar farm that was going in last time no there was a there was a subdivision in 2017 and solar farm was in 21 or 20 or 21 yeah sorry why did they fail I don't know about the 2017 say 2017 was approved it was approved by the planning board by the planning board and it was an approved subdivision it was an approved subdivision correct it was all all said and done it didn't fail but the gentleman ran out of money and this never continued as story I got so go ahead go ahead if you want to answer the previous pendant what L pendant I'm sorry iuc on that yeah pend is a legal term um there were Contracting issues that that arose from the property with the I mean you can up go ahead again frank2 Ro those plans that have been approved in 2017 were not finalized because appeal had never been heard because they had backed out of the deal before those plans and the 21 Day believe 21 day period for appeal before I could get it to m d and all that so they keep saying approved but there was many many revisions and a lot of differences in my appeal process never got the chance to go forward because they had daed out of the deal and same thing with the solar P so if I had made an appeal at that point it would have stopped everything until it went up through Mass D and then it would have had through all the federal state federal resources agriculture okay so does that kind of answer your question yeah yeah I just thought it was important to have that information we I mean we this is not the first time clearly yeah I was only on for the solar farm yeah and then we just same issu are there any records showing complaints about the water issues in the town hall because I've heard this and I don't work with Hall and I don't have I'm obviously at the top of hill I'm sorry guys I'm sure my law got cleared you got water from me sorry did not clear the law I don't I don't know who would handle a complaint like that would it be concom this been taken into consideration in in this development uh further than what's already here I mean I'm understand that there's some consideration in this but their job is to is to do this property here not to do anything here really that's you know that's existing I believe on the soul one last time we saw we got them to start doing work on the existing Road and then upgrading uh the pipes under the road um and we were going there we did a site visit talking about water um saw his his site in uh his farm and kind of after that it dwindled out never really heard much is there a reason why only that side of the site is taken care of if the old clont road is being accessed and why they wouldn't be further I guess I think you guys use catch basins uh at the end of Vega dry at the end of Vega there like why would that be eliminated if there's so much water coming off of there and we're trying to it sounds like work on some water issues here well they're not responsible for water coming from from properties they're only required to to concern the the property that they're developing here okay even though CL way is part of this development the not existing yeah but the uh iot how it came out but Vegas water is another issue and it's not necessarily they should go and it's a hard cuz you guys have been going right you've been making complaints and this has been an ongoing thing before this development was even going they are but they are officially now touching this problem though so yeah guess their road is now becoming part of this existing issue so how is it that we're ignoring the whole totality of this issue I guess is what I'm saying we're only seeing part of it but they are now redoing this road correct you're going to redo the road correct improve it improve it yeah m but we're ignoring part of that problem I go ahead um thank you I I agree with you on that as far as I'm concerned you are changing the existing topography on that road and I have yet to see reassurances that the change in that topography will not negatively impact my property and that is really where our concern comes from we know that there's an existing water problem we have done what we can in order to mitigate that existing water problem I have no reassurances that the changes made to the existing roadway although it's being said that if they are improvements I don't doubt that there's going to be new pavement I don't doubt that it's going to be wider but how is that going to affect the existing water problem and will it make it worse and I don't think anybody in this room right now can tell me with certainty that it will not make it worse um and that is really where our concern is because to my my neighbors and I haven't met you yet so hello I'm shell um you know to my neighbor's point there you're not just touching the property at the end of the road you are touching the existing roadway and that existing roadway is part of this project and it needs to be taken into account the existing water issues that are on that Ro I agree with that it just so their project you have someone else's project affecting your project is how I see it the Vegas site project is now throwing water illegally down onto you guys you guys and that's going to become your problem again frank2 Ro the water that's coming off Vegas property that's a natural funnel that water is funnel and it's it's not I'm getting observation that you guys are assuming water is cooling there and making just that watern down and Crosses so whether they like it or not that water is being thrown in their lap and they have to do something with it and it's going to go into a catch Bas which then goes to I see so they don't have a choice to deal but to deal with that water it's going to end up in the roadway there's no way to stop it from getting in the roadway because of the the part right it's going to the roadway and the roadway is going to catch that water there's no way to stop it because of the way the the valley it's a valley and then there's another Valley and all three valleys yeah and Vegas is one of the valleys that they're on one side veg is on the other and the water has to cross the roadway and it does and that's their complaint and to add to what Frank is saying when that the water today from Vegas property crosses our way and goes into uh Tony's proper next door but it does wash the road out we have significant PP holes in the road from the water that has been that travels over that road and actually washes it out if that road is raised then that water come Myer are you looking for an additional catch Bas in put in I mean is it what you like to [Music] see they you add another catch wasn't their problem just like you guys have said it's not but somebody's got to deal with the water you're touching the road I mean I think we have a lot more problems just one catch Bas then we just that push down the problem to no that's I get that so you know I mean yeah I tried this I you know just from my perspective calcal me and we we were here I met with you I asked you for an extension I I pleaded with you guys to get it as early possible okay yeah yeah we weren't going to be we couldn't do it the 29th because we weren't going to be around but yet the 28th we were at the comp com comcom hearing you know what I mean so I approached then and said what can I do to to make you a happy neighbor this is what I try to do I try to solve the problems you know what I mean and the biggest thing was the detention Pond I says I talked to my engineer I says make the detention Pond bigger then if that's what the neighbor wants and that's what's going to appease him and that's what he told me at the conservation meeting on the 28th the day before we were supposed to be here but we couldn't make it and so that's why you have now an upgraded detention Pond and it's just snowballing you know what I'm saying now the detention Pond's not big enough or it's not yeah no I got you you know he approached me after I'll explain so when we in the first meeting we had to resched it because of the the notices right the administrative thing whatever so we had to continue it I couldn't be there you wanted to go on the 29th I wasn't aware of the meeting on the 28th I was supposed to leave on the 27th for Ohio to go to work right so on the I got the meeting of the on the 28th a couple days later I'm like are you kidding me I'm supposed to leave on the 27th so I delayed it the whole day I ended up leaving the following morning after 28th if I had known that at the time who possibly could have in the 29th granted I was supposed to be out to work there on that here or there that that's just an explanation because he he thinks I'm trying to play games with y That's so he he confronted me at the meeting I don't have a problem with that right we can all talk we're all adults and he asked me what will it take and I says no water my exact words were no water on my property that was it I didn't make any comments about the retention fond making it bigger he kept asking me he wanted me to say things so he hold it over my head I comment to him and the engineer no water across the property line onto my Prophet because I can't take it those are my exact words no water he can say whatever he said wants to and put words in my mouth but my comment to him was no water period those the only comments I made about water or anything to appease me and he tried I'll get him credit he's trying to talk to me but when my comments were no war water he says that's not that's not a reasonable request well it is it's by law no water on my proper can't have it it'll ruin my livelihood I've said it 100 times already I'm say it again but no water that's all I'm asking for I do have more questions am I allowed to continue yeah go ahead go ahead did you want to say something Chad no okay sorry go ahead so my questions was actually Frank direct question sorry have we further ask to actually if there are two solutions it sounds like he's wanting no water so with that being said if this solution is causing more water is there a solution for this water to not make it down to our farmer because I buy groceries at this Farm Stand I know others in town do I grew up on a farm farming is really important to me and so if a farmer in my town is saying this is going to be problematic for their livelihood and for my livelihood my family how do we make sure that these X number of house Lots do not affect our town well that's what the engineering is for the storm water management plan is to not have water from that property spill over but it sounds like our neighbors are still concerned with it if the engineering's there you know I mean but it's not because they're putting it in the retention Pond they've set it themselves over and over and over again they put it in the retention Pond which then infiltrates to my property which is six feet above my cranberry Bo that's the problem that's water infiltration into my cranberry Bo that I can't have and then the other side it infiltrates through the wetlands and it floods me out on the other side that's the problem it's a water issue and there going to be more water you can't say there's not more water cross property you can't you can't you're condensing it all to a small area of two areas right one in the retention pwn and one in the wetlands that's going to come through the pipe that floods me up every time did water legally go into Wetlands yes so our calculations have shown and they're being reviewed and reviewed that we are not increasing the flow that any flow that goes outside water is always going to flow downhill but again yes that's how you control runoff when you do a development you put it into a infiltration Basin to control the runoff recharge some it lets them out that is the basis of engineering and drainage analysis which is what they're reviewing we've done test Pits on our property we've gone down to Elevation 76 we have not hit any restrictive layer anything that gets infiltrated into the ground it's going to go down to the ground water is there a possibility to go low with this uh catch Basin so that below the property line down the bottom at mle's or is that the lowest that it can go is that I hear something about it being still above the property line no so the road is at at that location the road's at the exact same elevation that it is now are you talking about this road here catch Bas saying put the catch B below I don't know what real name I'm a school teacher someone educate me what's that rtion sorry she's talking about putting it below the do that lower in depth so that it's not above the Ashley's property they cannot because it has to be a certain height above the ground water in that area elevation yeah so that's um I had question about L actually I mentioned something about the first development of the usca protecting um inform the First Development isn't Germain to this so I mean is there a backup plan if this engineering Concept in theory does not actually work in practicality with all the water well our engineering firm is overlooking them so so we've had two Engineers going over this engineer then the town they present it and then our independent Engineers that work for the town go over they work um I did have a question about South Coast Construction seems to be very adamant about not clearing it like a Runway um and what are they doing with it because it sounds like the each lot's not being sold off but rather they're developing it South Coast Construction you mean Simmons I'm thinking I'm I thought this was South Post construction no this is Sim I own Simmons development and I also own South Coast Construction oh it so no we're not clear we're not what what Our intention is is not to go in there and clearcut the entire property down to basically look like a football field you know we we intend on keeping as much natural growth as possible and this uh Simmons development is developing every single house lot and then selling individually yes yes there will be no other anyone there there will be no selling of lots there will be no you do the building of the houses too I do everything development Carpenter Simmons development is buying the land and is developing it South Coast Construction Enterprises will be constructing the houses there will be no one else in there there will be no one going in with any other say others than me and I say that the when I when I tell you I keep the trees that's what we do you know what I mean sh house I mean I've sold six houses in the last three years and every one of them have sold like that because the people love the natural look they don't they don't like that football field look like a some people do yeah yeah so I guess for the record I'd like to say uh I know I've played my lot of some since live there and uh so once they sell the actual lot no one's to say what will sorry the constructed house so the whole lot with the house on it there's no there's nothing to say that I wouldn't come and buy and te some so like that's here there talk about I'm going to keep all the trees sounds nice but nobody's I can clear every single lot of my house if I want to want so I think that that's really important to take into consideration regardless of what the original Simmons SL construction wants they come back I think I think that's all I have okay thank you I'll give you one more so with the with the second peer review from an engineering perspective um again I'm not an engineer so trying to decipher you know what was written in the review was noted several times the calculations were incorrect numbers were Incorrect and what not so they couldn't make an assessment of the original plan um what is done by the peer reviewers to ensure that the the calculations that were taken on site by this engineer actually accurate in the peer review or are they just using the numbers that were given to them to make those calculations I'm just a little concerned were numerous calculation errors in the first set of plans I I don't I don't feel confident that there's not a possibility that the measurements or other calculations that were done on site were done appropriately well our engineering firm does not go out and do private work test pits or anything like that they test pits were Witness by Bo the test pits are witnessed by the Board of Health everything's overseen by an entity of the town and to say that the calculations had an error is is not a correct statement there's different ways to analyze runoff drainage and um well run engineer might analyze it different than other that's why you get two different opinions but to say one way is wrong is not correct um you know granted obviously there might be some typos that they do find in there but to say that the is not correct it's it's not a correct statement on the beer review there was a statement about gas lines gas line is available road so in his answer to the a review was that there is no gas line you can get gas there's gas and water both accessible just not accessible at the moment freeze on it because we have City water and there there are houses that have been built in the last 10 years that have City water and there'll be future houses with City Water I'll guarantee it's just at the moment there's a freeze on the gas and the water and I I assume it CS up new the supply which eventually when those Mains get redone so waivers for that wouldn't make any sense since it's readily accessible on it waivers I'm not worri about W now we'll wait till the peer review on second time but the on the peer review it it states multiple times hydrocad calculations of the cment delineation shown in this plan were miscalculated and she brings up a really good point that if there were so many miscalculations so many times and I have a number I believe it's 45 times on the peer review what's to say that their calculations in the field were not calculated correctly that were then brought back to the office to be done our Board of Health is not an engineer he's there just to observe the water level he doesn't do all the math himself so there is a concern of this of this repeating calculations error right and that does bring so some of this stuff I have brought to other people to be reviewed and those were one of the things that were brought to my attention is that there seems to be an awful lot of irregularities in the way this was done well and that that is a huge concern if our EPG says this then we're going to be happy I'm not a big conspiracy theory guy so know give approval number one and number two just because they said they fixed it does peer review go back and redo the math again and say yeah okay how about the math that was done in the field because the math had done in the field if it was done wrong after that I'm not going down that path man I you just can't you have to that's your job if if the math is wrong to start it only gets worse I'm taking what you say at face value is what you're telling me true no it's right here it's in the peer review there was calculations no you're telling me about the the size of the pipes and the amount of water you're getting fact measure you're you're allow on my prod in fine I will show you all the engineered plans that I have from the USDA the FSA the nrcs I am here trying to protect my family I can appreciate that and I'm telling you the way we do it is we have our our reviewers review what they do I understand that but there's a problem with the calculations so they'll correct them okay that's the idea and we won't go forward if they're not corrected do we get the question the riew that they were corrected properly if you're a professional engineer no do I get the question the Professional Engineers that their calculations were were properly calculated the second and third time is what I'm asking I probably say no so we have we have no public access to um what's the name of EPG environmental Partners group right so we don't have any access or or comment period to to discuss how they come up with what was right and wrong of what they considered right and wrong with their plans in reality you don't even by Massachusetts open law you don't I don't even have to open up the floor to the anybody you can I have a turn that'll differ on that one I don't want to get I don't want to get into that either you have any other questions for for us right at the moment anybody else have any other questions you're good okay okay uh so you're going to get back to EPG with the corrections you sent to us yeah so and they will and you'll go back and forth with them and um so we will continue this meeting our next meeting will probably be December first December 2nd or whatever that is um December 3rd I believe you think we get back but we'll continue I'll ask for a motion to continue until that day and if if things don't work out we'll push it back a week two weeks yeah I I'll need a motion in a second to continue this meeting I'll make a motion to continue to December 3rd at 6 at the police station December 3rd at 6 at the police station motions made and seconded all those in favor signify by saying I I oppose nay so uh December 3rd 6m here we will continue this uh this subdivision uh meeting yeah I thank you guys very much for your time appreciate it they have another all well when is that you [Music] know yours yeah you guys have a have a good one yeah it is so my attorneys are probably going to want this how do I get um once it's posted it will be posted to YouTube do you have an email no I want just the minutes I want yeah the recording okay yes the veral recording it's not it's just audio it's not Vis no it's a it's a whole Zoom yeah so it gets um posted to our YouTube channel so um I can it doesn't go to the planning board site I know the minute I get all minutes there yeah no the actual recording gets posted to our YouTube channel under the planning playlist so just free toown planning board yeah you just do YouTube town of Freetown and then yeah there's different playlists for all the boards but if you can't find it just give the office a call I can okay thank you you're welcome excuse me excuse me could you guys um Take It Outside we want to continue hello you guys we're going to continue our meeting if you could just take it outside thank you thank you guys 100% wrong I don't have to open this meeting up to anybody 100% wrong anyway uh agenda item number two minutes from October 1st 2024 and October 15 2024 um has anybody had a chance to read them I was on first Steve can that I mean I just looked at him now they looked all right to me so the one I was there was fine anybody have any questions on them or comments nope so I need a motion in a second to approve uh the minutes from October 1st 2024 and October 15 2024 as written motion second excuse me motions been made and seconded uh to accept the minutes as read all those in FA as uh written all those in favor signify by saying I I I I oppose nayes are done number three need other business to properly come before the board um we did interview we set up an interview with somebody else they didn't show up they were another noow I think what four out of six people did not show awesome so um the planning Tech that was for planning land and land use administrator and we actually interviewed for Town planner we are now uh posting for planning Tech and somebody at this table here will be applying for it and uh I don't think we've I think we've pulled back the town Planner yeah I don't think that one's been posted again and I think the thought was that there's a there's a um staff member that's going to be helping out with the assessors that will help Nicole out so that's that's kind of the way we're going for that um as a reminder next next week this time next week There's a zba meeting a joint meeting with the zba going over um accessory dwelling units um garage size of a th000 square feet and there's one other thing I can't remember vacant um buildings vacant buildings fees for vacant buildings I'm wondering if we should bring up that a Butters fee that you mentioned remember Maybe we should bring that we bringing up a PR structure yeah don't we do that anybody else have anything we mentioned before about you know holding piece of property instead of a bond oh doing developments you keep you bit your tongue Steve I was very proud of you you asked me to check with Kevin okay so I checked with Kevin about it and Kevin says technically he said the planning board ought to get in contact with town uh the town so we kick we start to kick the ball rolling right because it comes to the planning board that's the whole thing he was saying we should check with the the town attorney about the whole situation so everybody will be on the same because I talk to Kevin he gives me one thing Charlie Al he's got his own VAR on it so everybody's got a different theory on the whole thing and according to it you can't take a piece of property people don't finish the development you can't take that piece of property from it you can put leans against it but you can't take it and if you can't take it so what happens like with like Alexander people stop paying taxes on yeah then you can take it by tax then you can take it by tax but so how many years you G have to wait you know what I'm saying you you keep pay well it sounds like when was that dated that that she 2017 right so they were still active then right which was only seven years ago right it's been going on for 20 years so it' be up to me to reach out to town attorney and say hey ask ask for an explanation on how it's done because technically from what they're saying is it said you could wait 20 years before you could take the place over that time and people were selling the houses on that which doesn't come to the same thing that de Petty did with the other one that technically insurance companies can turn around and say no I'm not insuring that house because of technically it's not finished the development got finished if I walked down your street and asked how many people they realized that that was a a not accepted Road how many of them except you none of them yeah so that's what I mean and but but they all know that the school bus don't come down and pick the kids but they do now all of a sudden last week sometime they're letting the kids off down there I don't know what changed in the last couple weeks they used to stop in front of your neighbors two down she works in the school because she has her child's handicap autistic yeah yeah so they have to pick the kid up they can't trust him other D the road by himself that's the reason why they come down but all of a sudden now they're starting to drop the kids off on the other side of the road from the middle school or something before they used to have to all get the bus at the top of the road oh well to me they should walk up to the top of thead uphill both legs I you know it's tenth of a mile you know the plows come down thead road though the plow so because they were threatened before that if an ambulance can't get to one of those people's houses on that road because of the snow they're suing the town so then the town decided it would flow it yeah and somewhat the town like this was one of the earliest developments fre this like this been a problem from day one 30 years yeah before hour was now Town wants to put a pump station at the end of the road you don't own it well of course then the would ask me or the council what what do you want what do you care why do you care I just want I guess I just want to know because we go f like we say we every time we do a subdivision or something we get money to hold as long as you get money but if you're holding the property instead of the bond because like like Kevin says if you're taking the money you can take money but you can't take piece of property from somebody we have to make sure that um Attorney Kevin uh well that's what I'm saying everybody you talk to got a different home that's why Kevin says you need to talk to the town attorne and get it done the right way and let's face it a developer putting in a subdivision wants to give you lots they don't want to Fork over the cash because they're working cash out to do everything else ex I me at least at least we should be only be educated on how it really how it really affects because like I said you could be waiting like 20 years down the road before they even accept the road and by that time it's already falling apart oh it's falling apart now so yeah okay I'll um I'll either I'll reach out or I'll have Nicole reach out or something but or you give me this email I can just reach out to him her yeah I think we go through de to reach um Town Council I've never directly reached out to them oh okay yeah so I think we can I I I I'll send an email to her and say hey yeah to see if we yeah okay okay anything else so motion to adjourn I'll make a motion second all those in favor I thank you very much yeah