##VIDEO ID:oS7A0mmrAgU## e we don't have a quorum so we'll have to attend the planning board meeting as the public will you have a quorum we're supposed to all right we can wait we W wait a few minutes he's out there yeah is that him in the truck it's white truck yeah he just P he pulled I was walking in oh okay all right well I'll just wait must be well I'll I'll open the I'll I'll open the planning board meeting uh uh at six o'clock we will open the uh planning board meeting for the town of Freetown for Tuesday November 19 2024 let the record reflect the members that are here members that are on uh and on Zoom M cor being present I'll call the zoning board of appeals being to order at 601 is for do you have to do two sets of minutes are you gonna do the same one um they're the same minutes I just copy and paste and change names and things like that so you guys wanted to you guys are the ones that instigated this so um we I'll let you start the accessory dwelling units as you remember we had there was a joint meeting I wasn't actually wasn't there when you did when we finalized The Joint meeting and we were going to bring this up at town meeting in June but we passed on it Town Council reviewed it like the two days before something and those are the notes that he or she put in there um and then subsequent to that the state has released um uh definitions for um adus so I was think I was thinking we were going to have Victoria's replacement and that's why I hadn't scheduled anything but we've we've scheduled six six uh interviews two people showed up so anyway go ahead if you guys wantan to sure so uh I just so we all met like you said the joint meeting for this accessory apartment by law from my understanding I believe this was done prior to the governor signing in the Adu yeah so I know I went through these comments I really don't think they are applicable anymore to the Adu so I think we can skip over that unless we add any comments on that um I Know Carl is also here because he's going to be the one enforcing this in February third of next year yeah so car is our villing commission so what what I found through several meetings seminars is that there's still a lot of gray area here State still trying to figure it out so they're telling us go ahead your with your boards put your laws and then we'll come back in again one of the things I didn't know is zoning is that so it's any single family zoned area the question is the multi-use because is that considered single family can't put a you can put a single family mul to use but I'm being told no it has to be a single family zoned area not mixed use not anything else other than single family use again that's one of the gray areas and it's not we've had Jonathan Silverstein before the seminar we've had we had other people before so where we keep heing that it's not finalized there's still some gray areas in these things well by right it's in single family zoning so I'm wondering if if it's in very specific about in single family districts yes by Yeah by right so I mean we could always enact something that says well the problem with that though is a duplex is allowed in the three different zones with the correct lot size so we have one designated single family uh District correct uh Village Residential residental so that's I think that's correct just residental so I'm being told it's only an it only affects that area again it's some gr area I've got different attorneys so not industrial not commercial not even mixed not even general not even general just anything that's zoned not even residential though it have to be in general somebody builds a house in a general we still have a residential single family own the question specifically about our situation if someone want to build advantage that in a general Zone they're not allowed to by so far because it's not a single family Zone therea by right by right they're not will by right that is a very brave because we have three different zones you can build a single family house and a dupli Zone and I brought up examp I brought up the example what if somebody wants to put a single family in a mixed juice or general zone is IR interpretation is that it's only in single family zone areas so again talk about gry Zone that's one of them the other ones is what if somebody takes in to a cont after they don't know they're still trying to figure that one out no they put the car for the horse on this one they just wanted to push it out and now we got else left figure it out because so correct me if I'm wrong um through your seminars it's by right in call it residential Vis Village Residential there's no way of putting regulations on that except for the character of the exterior of the building is that correct or is that even can't even do that no you can't you can't go out way to prohibit the development you might put something like so CL and we know half a mile that poste um I mean historical couldn't hold it up for that it's very very specific of what you can and can't do with it when we initially met um and now that the build new building uh code is coming out in I forget when February 2 no effective July 10 10th edition July 9 the concurrency PR went from January to July if you okay so with that being said someone can put a camper because it meets the energy code on the property and call it an Adu it it has utilities water sewage no no different than a tiny house so 10th edition also comes out with tiny house regulations correct and sanitary facilities so they couldn't put a camper up with with an ous but you do a camper with a toilet in it on same lot as a principal dwelling corre so very gray and I think any stipulations we try to put on this is going to be rejected anyway so I think the most important thing is to at least get our bylaws updated and I think we're going to have to update it again after all these towns go to the AG comments but I know we were speaking with Deb and they potentially having another special town meeting but we won't have time to vet this and present it to the town and everything and she never mentioned anything until she said something the other day than January or I would have made even more of an effort well that's it so we have to I guess accept the fact that we potentially will not have our bylaws ready and it'll be up to Carl to interpret the state bylaws or the law the state doesn't give you much of wiggle room after they announced their guidelines there's not much you can do with that uh then you still have the septic system would still have to be you correct so that I think that's one thing that can be denied based on Bo of Hell Title Five issues and I mean everywhere in town is practically septic anyway but I you know I didn't see many other things we could do here to limit this so what's going to happen if if so if we don't Square this away on our end by February 2nd it's it just is it a free for all well or are they going to extend it are they talking about extending it so they concurrency period they're trying to find out what the problems are in town as they get those they'll have to readjust it for what they get feedback from towns like us like hey this is here one of the biggest thing they didn't do is is allow to have it own occupied because now we get into the area where I'm going to build the Adu and then rent it out short term and the owner doesn't live there he doesn't know who's in an a there every 30 60 days whatever very specific about you cannot regulate it's own occupied or not that was one thing I was hoping that would be in there very specific that that is off the table that's off the table that and you can't you can Zone them out like most you can Zone them out you can't get a spe to buy right unless you want to do something more than what by right you have to get a only allowed to um you know take a bite at the Apple as far as setbacks go with a detach right so off to 900 square ft and so reason for that I think was I'm almost POS is because you don't have to meet certain energy code requirements it keeps you under, square fo only be half the square footage of the main house or 900 up up to 900 up to 900 whichever is smaller yeah if I have a, foot house you can only build 500 you can't build 9 you correct there's also something about parking you can't ask for more than one parking space access yeah so so this doesn't get resolved in our bylaws I I think the language prob going to be the language of the state right pretty much tied into that which we don't know when that's coming out besides the interpretation by KP mile train station they don't to have any pocket at all correct on how you gonna do that so this is what hurts the most I mean I think have the governor in Boston doesn't think about the smaller towns I mean most towns have pretty well set forth zoning dist districts where're Rural and Industrial I guess with different zoning districts we can't answer any of these so what I'm seeing so far is not so much the person who wants Adu but the neighbor who doesn't want him to get an Adu that's a big issue that's that's going to hurt you know come across a lot of people's deaths hey my neighbor's putting Abu he's putting a house on his back lot he can see it to myard they have a lot of that people are are actually finding gold in the backyard they're find an EXT a lot to sell they're find an extra piece of property that's another thing common ownership is wiped out so people a good opportunity for for Veterans for seniors we have a you know a daughter or a son wants to you want to keep them close to you you can build a house that's good but it's going to affect the neighbors of those properties more than anybody else and those neighbors might not have any choice other than say okay I got you got to do what you got to do one thing they do allow is we can regulate or prohibit short-term rentals yeah in ad so that would I think be a key when we do update our bylaws for the shortterm rentals right but come February 3rd we don't have bylaws they can do short-term rentals because we don't have a bylaw that prohibits that right now yeah we're almost okay with the attached Adu right we just got to take off the owner uh requirements right we're almost our by almost is miror what they it it almost is okay you know up the only doing we're going to be taking off is the owner um a requirement occupied yeah an occupied requirement that's about it on the attached in the parking space we probably to change the parking language the one the one pocket spot the no pocket spot so that's that's it would have to go to a 900 square feet not a th yeah well you'd have he recommended you use the state's definitions he saw it said it somewhere this is reflected in the definition of accessory apartment but I didn't find that definition uh he meant the state he meant well maybe maybe somebody maybe somebody told me that in an email or something so okay well we don't have regulation on is detached U because we only have accessory use in our in our we don't that's it so it's 10 feet this doesn't say whether it's attached or detached at all the state one it says it's a does doesn't it says a self-contained housing unit what does that mean self-contained doesn't mean it can be attached or it can be it can be the one correct the building to minimum requirements to detach at least 10 ft from each building or the detach off of off the yeah now we have to put it back down I don't know when the uh we they voted on for the sele the town meeting to put uh to send things back out to the codifying place to do the to finish off the bylaws booklet and stuff and when we get it back we're supposed to give a copy to each department so if you want to add any bylaws and stuff we can send it right back to them and they can add it back into the thing so I don't know how I don't know exactly when we're supposed to get that thing back but we have to bylaw change requires town meeting Town vote so I mean you're talking June we should we have we need to get this buttoned up as best we can I would think by June this is going to go to effect Fe February I I I know that but we we don't we don't have the time to I'm sure we're not the only ones in this boat everybody will be so come February everybody will be applying for their bill in forment based on whatever La is is is they if they know so word will get out you may get a couple weekend you get a couple of this weekend we get yeah I think we're going to be busy if the interest rates come down a little bit like they're supposed to the Adu the common laun I mean we're right for for for a growth you know not necessarily we want it but it's coming in new Bey situation you get the South End which is residential single family homes and that's in the very North End and in between both is is people who don't want accessory dwelling can't put them there but the highly areas single family going to have excess dwelling you it says a lot of money there they're talking you know $1,500 a month more for someone's a homeowner who can have extra income farm land that might want to put an Avo on their Farmhouse to augment their their income sure there's a lot of opportunities there maybe to cover to cover us for now the lawyer I don't know if we' be allowed to have the lawyer relook at this based on the current law and make their changes and then put that to town meeting the the January one that we're gonna have maybe we have we have something started the lawyer can mark it up and say now with the new law signed by the governor this needs to change we' have to have a public meeting and all that before whenever the hell do you any hint I don't have a specific dat for the January if they're going to just yeah right it's still an if as the last time I heard well I have to reach out I was gonna ask him a question anyway so I just got his email so I can I can ask him or her I'm not sure who it is how much of this that that they had marked up I can send this back to them and say hey I'm sure we have to under D attached accessory Department uh apartment we have to reference the state definition right we have to get rid of the owner owner definition well uh where we have where are we you may want to add owner of a business entity she want you may something s like trustee beneficiary member director officer that almost has to come out now because own mean every possible thing so I think the only thing I would want to add to this would be um short-term rentals because we can prohibit that I think that's the only thing we can I don't like how they asked approval from the Board of Health and fire department what are the requirements so on that point so right now I only find out about short-term rentals when they somebody tell me it's on Facebook they posted it we we've b a couple of them on the pond and different places but right now there's no registration there's no requirement for it shortterm rting less than 30 days I think is the definition is right so you take a look at that maybe there's a fee for it because whatever they're not getting for I if we live on the pond you could make a couple thousand dollars on a weekend like just selling out tickets to people want to pay 10 15 bucks 20 bucks a piece to show up on the weekend if you bu the pond I mean that it destroys neighborhoods you know 20 cars pared out front party then they're gone Monday Sunday night they're gone and when is's collected the owner this somewhere else but we really got to be careful about who's allowed we want to register as airbnbs first can we do that I don't know but I think that would go into the general bylaw as we'd have to have a separate section about short-term rentals yeah so you're suggesting in this department Adu is to prohibit short-term rentals I think we need to review it that's something I would add um you know I think the intent of the Adu is for someone getting out of college or someone elderly which is nice but I think it all depends they don't give us a specific what we can on this yeah it says we can remove the ability of cities and town right the one okay or prohibit as defined in whatever that is but then once we do once we write shortterm then we have to change the general bylaws to include the def short R which is not going to happen if it's possible to get a registration of who's doing airnb that helps the police help the town manage itself and everything so if we don't if we say if we don't say what what short-term rentals are anywhere then we we just we just we just don't allow the short-term rental for the a to use but we don't say what a we don't yeah what is a short-term rental is it a day is it three days is it a month so you 30 days it's like where is that defined in our bylaws no no I think that's just a general we could always put short term rental as defined by state the state general laws or something has be something we allow it just I'll I'll reach out to them again if you can if you can somehow regulate and have some um handle on on the parking for those uh weekend party that might might be the best thing the parking will destroy the whole neighborhood especially when you got these small Lots up like the shores around the pond there's no parking anyway to have somebody rent out a house for the weekend for even 10 15, destroy you can't get by I don't know if that's something can work into PL of short-term rental regulat par so if someone comes in for an Adu we don't change our by lws February you have to all everything's right come as as long as it's within the 5 500 or 900 squet 500 900 and all those regular setbacks and z and then start to build meet the building code San so you're not AE ride but what happens if someone comes in same LW with an Adu and they want to build a second one we haven't prohibited that yet this says you can't do more so attach or detach so that's the thing too you put attach and then detach this one let's just per say of argument to detach no it says you can limit it well it says go site plan review we don't have any bylaws that say that no the no that's what I'm saying if it's not in our bylaws can he allow five different adus if they meet title five on the same property you go by this one it says anything over 1 Adu is is supposed to go to supposed to but we don't we don't have it in our b i that but we would would we would we lean on the would we lean on the new law so he says okay you have to go to site plan review M review essentially can't be denied it's for the betterment of the town you tell them that offense but I can't deny it no it says for more than one accessory dwelling unit or rental thereof in a single family residential zoning district there shall be a special permit for the use of land or structures special permit but we don't have it in our bylaws so when they come to call he sends them to planning what's your what's your regulations we don't have any regulations for that special permit that's my question right what happens uh well we want we have it on our current one don't we well if I st in special permit it's second Adu my job is easy now the boards got to figure out their jobs hard yeah yeah exactly you look at the special permit and say okay they need to meet oh they deny it we go to court right yeah the other thing says the shortterm shortterm r is defined to section one chapter 64g okay so perfect they we could always put that instead of updating the bylaws I still don't think we're getting this out and you gotta be careful you don't want to shoot the gun and put this in January and have made your screw up and or something I mean you're talking about if we can get something here to kind of restrict it then we have six months to get it in the town meeting where we have more time to right you can you can check off a few boxes you know you're not gonna have I don't think you're a stampede I'm just worried about what happens until June from February to June but are you really gonna have thousands of units no what you think thousands it only takes a couple going to be talked about more more news we already have uh they've been coming in maybe two a week for the last three months initially when it was signed we had you know Common lot we had you know six seven people come in because of the common lot issue how we get more space yeah yeah it's a freefor all in Freetown we have space we have land available they all have eyes plus we're not a stretch coach Community we can easily save you 20 25 $30,000 on your new build because we're not a stretch SC Community this the perfect place to come build so for existing adus you have to keep because they're under the old rules right you have to maintain they already got into zoning but you have to do that yearly or five year years so the state doesn't say they have to do that so that's not one of the requirements says that but they're currently that's not restrictive it's just process you have to go through it was restricted to uh who's living in it who's living in for our current special permit what would be the difference you couldn't have have the blood window the window that's out the window for new ones what about existing right that's gone too Cod so to Dave's point we the zoning board issued a special permit for a um in-law apartment does that now get converted to an Adu and if they come in for a detach Adu they won't get one so they can do an attach 1800 square feet yeah the problem because when you sell the property what are you selling at that how much money you're going to make on the single family home now you the three units in now three family homes it's three units it's a a big amount of money there a lot of money there what happens with a guy with five acres Agricultural and he's have butternut squash and say hell with the but I'm going to stop putting adus up in this 5 Acres they goes that out the window buy it all that other stuff like I say it's great because you can do a giant Community Title 5 compliant septic and have all these adus go small most small houses yeah I think we know what that means that means more children not schools and more services it could have a devastating effect on a lot of commun uh oh 900 square fet oh yeah you look at new bth PA R getting 17 $1,800 with three bedroom two bedroom they're going to come out here and find a deal for an Adu for $1,200 $1,00 to live out in Freetown Adu with a new school system I'm here I thought I read somewhere we can limit the amount of bedrooms or could we not I thought read that a bedom it's three bedom doesn't matter it'll be two inside and one people you got to realize if somebody goes to put one of these in have to beef up their septic so you know it's not cheap they got to take one bedroom out of the maybe yeah restriction restriction ways of doing it or someone built a five bedroom system already if it the new but every house has to be at least three right now yeah correct uh I think they're allowing deed restrictions on some of the rehab stuff though yeah 1500 gallry and actually I think the new Board of Health rules goes by rooms if it's over 10 rooms something I'm not with it thank we don't follow the bo of Health rules no they don't want you to build in oh my goodness they had enough so so I'll reach out to the to the council ask them a couple questions and ask them about you know redoing potentially based on what was what the combined boards came up with back in February there's something we can put in there received well this was received April 8th I don't know when they get the comments back when did um this law get signed anyone have idea September 24th I thought it was yeah August or somewhere oh yeah yeah yeah we we just didn't um um push it into Tom meeting I'm glad we didn't because we would have to redo it again I think that would be good Dave and if you ever get comments back just let Nicole know and we may want to schedule another yeah yeah yeah um joint meeting on that so who do we is there anyone at the town that the planning or zoning need to speak to about not getting this on the books by February on the bylaw you say you want to you don't want it well I don't think you can unless we really pushed Town Council to write something oh for us to get this in January well no I'm saying I don't think we can get it before February so is there someone like the Town Administrator or the select that we have to notify this law is coming bylaws don't need it I think I think everybody knows okay yeah you change the bylaw you got to meeting oh absolutely but I just don't think this is going to happen before February because they don't know what they're they could make Chang between now and February they will yeah like you said what you have there it's pretty inclusive of the new bylaw so maybe somebody look at and say oh yeah you already included in the new some of your mocked up comments on just to get something out there I don't know what the rules are for so come February our bylaws are null and void some as far as far as the Adu goes yeah right what we what we what we what we'll fall back on is the state law as basically will be our B that's that's all you can do so if you have yeah that's that Oz is going the state Adu um bylaw that the draft bylaw they have will become our bylaw so I think what they're saying is to go ahead and have your own bylaws designed and put in there and then when USS come out we'll we'll take it apart and whatever there say if we do nothing the is going to go by their guidance you'll have that which which is all inclusive I mean you can't you can't put anything there that's not already there you're going to follow their guidelines pretty much I would take their bylaw adopt that and then add to it right exactly separately yeah that way that there you can you can't a table you a table of you know our table use of setbacks and and things like that we don't have anything problem is I haven't seen a draft bylaw you can't do do it giving the appearance of trying to keep this from happening that's that's what they're looking for if you're already have other bylaws for that kind of structure somewhere else in our Zone you can I would think you can add that to it but to create a whole new zoning Tri St back because we don't want it they'll be looking for that and anything that they do for February I still anticipate being very vague yeah well that's by by Design that's what they do so it'll be Vue yeah Mr chairman I know KP law is very familiar with free town but you also maybe ask them about the zoning districts that this has to go in as Carl was stating single family I mean that's kind of big in free toown does it have to go in general residential billal what's that yeah so have to go in a single family residential zoning District I don't know what that means there's so many different I mean we have overlay like you said um I would think if there's a single family lock house in General on two acres of land being used as a residential that they can do an Adu in general residential zoning District so I would assume it meant whatever wherever we have residential zoning General but theot Canal very specific about but not so basically not not industrial that everything else but industrial yeah well you can build a house in business does that count you can build a house bus through special permit okay right I think yeah professional landscape he's got his whole business right there metal we did a bu has come up several yeah he got a house on the back Lake the sub storage house on there yeah they live there yeah true y on County Road yeah so I don't I doubt an adu's purpose is going a business district but I'll uh try to remember to put that in there I would just assume it would go in all three districts yeah okay I will attend I will attempt to reach out to him this week thank you yeah and and K KP law says affirms the ability of M municipality to regulate or prohibit short-term rental of adus yep that's where I saw that right it's only five different things that prevent it or three things you can't do and two things well two things so five different things you can't do yep and special permit for more than one but we don't have any any boiler plate on what our special permit would be so yep I don't even think you guys have anything that it would even closely follow right no because you these came under your board right uh GBA which one what the current Adu yes your special permit granting Authority yeah correct but so I don't know if they would go to us or go to you guys for special permit for the that's not more than one because we're essentially going to be taken out of adus completely now we used to issue special permits right or unless it's this more than one right but does that go to planning board or does that go to zoning board as a special permit granting Authority planning gr the permits now right planning we Grant a special permit for adus but we're getting taken out of this and it's going to you so I don't know if it goes to you or to us for that should still go to watch it's special they can't do special per bethor special permit well no they we both have special permits we only have special permits really for adus which is getting white out so they would still come back to us it's our choice to put like we used to have signs under our under our then we took that away from us and gave it to planning so it's just kind of sort of the same think planning one has the auth yeah but at what point if they keep putting multiple adus up does it fall into like a subdivision you know what I mean anything like well I guess you could deny it but then that would go to court and they would ask you why it's not a subdivision you're not subdividing the land right you're not selling off put is in free time we put multiple builds up on a single lot already that's ready so if if they do come in for a second before we get this in order you would send them to planning I would send them to the authorities which would be planning how much would it take how much money to have you go there them I don't need to you know deny go to planning but that we figure that out yeah so planning has more regulations in your special permit because you have a whole V things but you have nothing that closely resembles this yeah I think that's you know multip to use you know lock size you know driveways access buyer access it's just totally different oh one thing we did talk about I think we can do fire trucks can't get to ambulan can't get houses that's just well not only that but it says something about the parking restrictions so if you put up five adus do you only have to have parking for one got that half mile yeah if you have a house that say it's 14,400 ft for a house a single family house put Adu that puts over if it put you over that amount you to sprinkle it single family home well it's one one part in space says that yeah and then if it's within a half mile it's not no yeah not the half mile all right the other thing I think we need to consider adding to the bylaw is um setbacks right now we have an accessory structure it can be 10 feet from the property line instead of 20 I think we have to add Adu in there and say it has to be the same setback requirements as a single family door but again is this something we want to do for January if we can even do anything for January i' would love to but I don't you really yeah is it better to have something then go back change it well if you You' only have so many of them built built before you put in something in June has to write it and I don't want to give Cole any more work on no but I think we are allowed to do setbacks right yeah you do we can update a way that shows you're trying to prevent it from happen right we would just it would be a setback for mates awell dwell set which is yeah I can't anybody kicking that back from the state no but right now I think they can build closer they can build because we don't we only have a under our on we just have an accessory use set back under so many square feet and above so many square feet that's it what about we don't have we don't have accessory use find what about Village Residential smaller Lots doesn't matter no because that goes back to anything before 86 it falls under the non-conforming law if you have under 70,000 ft if you're over you have to follow current mention Guest House the monkey mention but what is the guest house in what are they referring to square footage for guest houses Guest House Guest House in Arizona uh what's in the permitted use of single family dwelling was that a proposed one or was that page 5 of 13 CH 20.4 oh no that's just that was your recommendation that's you got that from a different uh town oh did I that's where it came from I apologize okay look yeah no that's next thing on the agenda okay all right's build building div into sections theyt it under that size I mean they could do well then I think Carl would call it a duplex and then have land may not be able to a question about duplexes do each one get their own adus it's a duplex we get two of them four family in two family but it's it's on one lot it's on one lot M that's multif family so that multifam is different is multif family zoning different than residential zoning or is it the same so zoning it's well do we do we because we don't have a multif family uh zone right we just have a residential Zone and and we don't we allow up to duplex right anything above that has to go [Music] to don't have a multi no duplex is owned by one person so you're saying duplex come but the lot itself is only know by one person I don't think you subdivide it that would be subdividing a lot I'm not sure how that would work I think we'll be revising this thing for for the next couple years the actual dwelling unit and not the lot because they take out they don't care who owns it all you know single accessory dwelling unit we could we squeeze that and say that the single accessory dwelling unit is one um he actually referenced attached on on our proposed bylaw that we going to do in June we had maximum of one bedroom and he said this may be subject to challenge or Flag by the AG as an issue for f FHA which is federal Housing Authority Ada or 40a reasons so I would say you probably cannot so you cannot and I don't know Tom councel I don't know if he if he's just going to answer specific questions I ask him I mean he's probably not gonna craft this himself so I have to be pretty pointed on some of these questions is this um section seven and Section 8 still the most up to dat or have they revised any this is oh says it right at the top signed August 6 there we go I can't believe that May subject to reasonable regulations what that means that's what a lawyer is for right but then it goes into I don't know what 3 if applicable site plan review regulations concerning dimensional setback in the bulk and height of structures so we can put regulations in that that state has to have the appearance of the single family home you want to leave enough Green Space on that lot that's is that regulated by our only times 30% something about how much land be covered by yeah that's important too we don't want the density to be such that it's to make up a whole lot doesn't say anywhere I've read that we have to lower the density this they still have to follow that I ass right density what do you mean the density requirement for building square footages and Paving so that kind of answers the question on you know what B Shores yeah 10,000 square foot are they that big they not that no I don't think so we could send every uh every a DX the site plan review too I don't think we can yeah it says right there we can send the site plan regulations such as including but not limit to site plan review site plan review you can't deny it no special permit you can regulations concerning dimensional setbacks and height structures and restriction we we go to site plan review I guess if we have we have it's the same thing because we have to have regulations for that oh I think chairman is going to speak to council they can mark it up and we'll have the Mee I I'll I'll try to ask as many questions I can I don't know how I've never dealt with the person so I we'll see yeah can you explain this entire thing yeah here here's a piece of paper and a blank pencil write it for us yep all right so if uh nobody has any other further comments or or questions I I pity Nicole for having to write all these minutes for this that's all right um we could probably move on to the next um you the questions down that we ask I'm going to ask him what we can do uh what what mean what is the meaning of a short-term rental um can we actually prohibit it um um oh uh for January meeting single family uh uh can we do a detached and can we specify anything about a detached versus an attached one uh uh which I guess who goes who goes for the special permit uh the other Zone in the districts that are that are non-residential but allowable by resal General basically yep that's on this page here yeah all our zones which ones are are applicable and basically we have this this one that was marked up originally I want to see how how much of it we can yeah we can keep so I'll give it a shot I mean I want to find out obviously from Deb when if they're thinking of doing a um a town meeting I don't know how long far ahead we have to have this I mean it's going to be Christmas and you know Thanksgiving Christmas yeah it's going to be a hard time to to get this properly well you guys get paid the big bucks right we do get paid yeah yep there's no member anyone from the public Zoom is no it's just James from the planning board he's our associate member he's waving to us I think okay anybody else anything else no cool all right action agenda item two discussion to take action relative to zoning changes for garages over 1,000 square feet in residential areas so that um came to us from Carl Carl you want to explain it yeah so this game to on relative to 30 roundville Drive they had a permit in my office to build I call a warehouse they call it a garage they s access to my single family home there it's residential um take so I sent a letter of denial um was denied on September 17th they appealed on September 25th I got a call from somebody saying that uh so I gave him the letter denial oh thank you that the letter denial and all our zoning regulations sent everything to BBS they told him we have nothing to do with zoning only the building pot and that's the letter we got I haven't heard back since then that 30 days have passed the appeal is gone so everybody's mute on it I haven't heard anything um but that's where we are with that so that's a good thing we people showed up I do want to send these out what do they want to do for do want to put a 40 by 80 2 and a half story garage to put of vehicles his own stuff so it that's huge that what do we have a th000 square feet it was yeah so it was 100,000 square cubic feet by the time it was done yeah and so the building code as I denied it based on the fact that residential home is allowed a utility use for the garage is up to a th000 square fet that use is auil accessory to anything to support the principal building but then the building code on the utility it only allows for 1,000 square F feet beyond that you have to identify what the use because that's going to matter a lot to a lot of people whether you're you're you know you're storing baby powder or gunpowder makes a difference right so now we're being told well you no longer afforded the utility use it's more than a th000 square feet tell us what's getting us it for I'm going to put my tractors in there my trucks in there so that's fine but the building code recognizes then they're going to put Motor Vehicles anything with a motor in there that changes the code quite a bit you might have to sprinkle the building might put oil separators in there essentially you're creating a mini storage for all kind of vehicles in your residential zone so denied the letter and so I have a section from the building code which identified with the uses under the utility what's good for zoning is that if they identify a use that's not allowed in that area then it doesn't get a permit and that protects everybody that's what I'm looking to do um and so the garage application denial letters in it states part of the code and so on and so on um right so you want us to add well your suggestion is 1,000 square ft a couple things Gage in the residential can you change a setb on buildings that size of residen is just not allowed at all right now 10 ft from that property line it's going to put a big Warehouse in there oh I see minimum distance is 10 right now yeah so if you got a you know your kid play set is out you get a GU in the backyard this guy going to put a warehouse right next to you 10 ft away from the property lines and a call an accessory building so your suggestion is to change that to some other something else well I'm I'm asking the board for their experience and saying do we change the setback or do we not allow accessory dwelling garages more than many ft now you can put a three car garage to residential home that's 900 square feet plenty but more than that how much more do you need this thing to be and how can you regulate it well we already have a th000 Max right no that's that's from a different town yeah oh that's from different town yeah oh oh not free time Carl provided that as a suggestion not free time okay so okay on the page from this page here you see where say utility use and it lists private garages so it's a 4ed they use for private garage but there's no restrictions on it only 10 what is our you're saying we also have 10 feet yeah so we have to somehow understand that we can't be put these extra Liv garages single family homes single family areas unless we identify the use I think a th000 square feet is enough to have a three car garage if you looking have a three cars and what a garage has plenty we had the situation where you know home businesses have been involved and so on but I just know that right now you can put 100,000 square cubic fo building 10 ft in the property line the residential zones without changing our bylaws so which bylaw is that or which it's our accessory uh building empty do we have a copy of that I didn't see one I don't think so okay it's it's an our setbacks but we don't have it's not labeled as garage it's just labeled as accessory ACC accessory building and it's currently has a 10- foot setback between structure 10 foot between structure this is theirs yeah this is a separate you know ours is 10 still 10t from the property line because it's a it's like a garden shed 8 by 12 shed is 10 feet that's the same thing where H is gon to follow an hour per hour bylaws right now yeah so either we limit the size of the accessory structures or we increase the setbacks it's all what what you want the town to look like I know we're getting people from other towns coming here because we're allowing to put Vehicles inside big warehouses so mini stor is a big big thing now people want their cars the mobile homes to put somewhere to get residential home you got just big Warehouse yeah I'll charge you so much put your mobile home in there but the problem is that thing goes up it's going to burn a lot of a lot of house in that area lot of gasoline Motors the storage all well who's in business district or industrial that's all right that's it is but have to built it a code that's fine but this is a res in general in general right so I would like if we could somehow attach it to the acreage the size of the accessories unit the size of accessory unit we already know we need add a third one so less than 150 over 150 to 400 or 500 anything over 500 square feet will a different setback that way we can at least let people with shed I think people with small sheds should be allowed to be down down in a small loot 10t from from the neighborhood yeah I think someone owns 50 acres their houses in the woods they can build if they put up a 10,000 squ foot garage they have the money for it they have classic cars why not put put the building Cod they could cost some money firewalls and sprink it's not a free ride still some still regul so that's why I wouldn't want to limit it a blanket limitation I would like to maybe tie it to the acreage of the lot well the lot could be subdivided too then that's yeah that's what because they can come to you as a form a and you guys can't deny that right right yeah then it would go to Carl as a building a zoning violation because the garage is too big right that building code garage was okay before they subdivided the property now they want to subdivide the property what happens that's the thing can you sub I don't see why you couldn't subdivide it really existing structure on there I don't know what what the rule is for existing structures on a property that you subdivide you can't make it a conforming lot nonconforming yeah so you'd have to have the frontage setbacks the only way to catch that would be so you would commission so you would not be able to uh sub divide it potentially because you need certain size for that size of a building they came in as a I think you guys have a formy for subdivision they would not they came as a for you guys don't deny those it's just we've done people that wanted to add a you know when you add the second lot you got a big lot when you want to add another lot so that first lot you you when you subdivide it you have to make that conform keep saying with Frontage and set back yeah correct the other thing you could do is also regul the use and the use of the building of size and and where it's located the use I say once once you change the use then allow the use and not table of uses Maybe not maybe we don't want it residential so what's like your example the guy who has you know 28 want to put a bond or something somewhere what's the use going to be so at agricultural it gets a free ride right 58 he's good there and I've used that I've got a couple of buildings that went up in agricultural because it's agriculture they did get the bond of the overide Gage so that work in that case so if it's over th000 Square F feet and we we ask to identify the use and we can say well that use is or is not allowed the way you want to do it that gets tricky because that's only in your office we zoning or planning doesn't go for the building code right that's all your your interpretation so regardless matter what we put in here it still has to be building code obviously but we know that a th000 square F feet triggers a building code that's that's protection for the for zoning when it triggers the building Cod and believe me I want the guy a single family home and does well to have three cars and a bond with his toys and I want that but when he starts having an oversight it becomes that safety issue with all those Motors and gasoline and fuels and now when his friend stop bringing stuff and they're working in there it's not a good thing for the neighborhood I almost think the only thing we can do since it becomes a building code violation whether we put Garage in a th square feet not I think we need to change the setback for a building of X size size from 10 feet 10et so you go over 500 feet you have to move it to 20 feet or something you're say graduated size of the lot that's how you work both of them in there that would be a lot a lot big enough residential maybe it could do it but then it still triggers a building code though yeah it does so I don't know if the size of lot would be necessary or even a th000 square F feet but if we were to put something over 500 square ft you need to be at the 20 ft could we ask for site plan review at that point do we put that then that will give you all everything you need for the for the what's your site plan review regulations 2500 or does it not apply to garages I I honestly I do not know the 2500 may be a minor site plan or is it 5,000 minor yeah I forget what the what happen with that so if you if you want over 500 he with a different setback that would help us with the Adu setback immediately as well it that way yeah yes it would kind of like we would combine both of them you know and then you could you could say anything over 500 square feet has to comply with the residential setbacks and you put that okay I think we just switch it we just add a line item another um over 500 sare F feet 20 feet 20 well that's where it gets stct but you're hoping the billing code will pick up to exited amount building put on yeah it work still as long as I have something that you know the only problem is we still have the setbacks for non-conforming Watts that are going to be different Frontage I think right Frontage is 30 and then 50 for performing Watts I don't change the side 75 FR 30 it's still 30 okay it's 30 on nonconforming it's 504 conforming okay so we almost have to put that in there whether not to conforming lot that well we have the non-conforming in there but it'll be a separate setback but if they if we didn't put it in there wouldn't they just come to you guys and look for a waiver variance yeah yeah variance yeah correct so if we just keep it at the the 50 the 2020 I think it solds all problem the problems of 10t obviously 50 20 20 50 front 20 sides 20 rear that's what covering that's much better I it's not correctly but it's much better double 100% increase yeah yeah baby steps car yeah what's a it's 20 feet for a house right separation sidey side yeah yeah but the problem with gares too is that you don't it's just so trucks in and out bring in stuff know night at night in the morning or whatever you know that causes Anor with with the neighbors too people want access to they stuff they have stored in your you know comp pay you right you're not going to tell me that but you know these Mini Storage things are big business I think new bford has 42 of them business to built up Mini Storage is a big business now I don't know what happened I think I do people R out of space they downsizing but they looking for a place to put things right in PR toown we have place to put things looking over here protect ourselves from that I think changing the setbacks is a first step in the right direction anyway so that would be setbacks on uh a build any any building access accessory any accessory building ACC caught up in definition that way we capture as many as we can garage Adu the definition accessory unit right we get that but we're not going to Define what we're not going to Define different types of accessory we do Define accessories it's it's but we're not going to differentiate a garage from a a big shed uh just with the square footage just by square footage yeah but it's and the use if the use of if the use of this big garage is automobile storage that's not accessory to the principal building by definition right especially if you got a small lot in a small house you only need a lawn mow and may a riding lawn mow but to have you know your buddies track the trailer that he doesn't have a place to put it he's going to keep it in your your garage your yard or that you know he's going to work on it when he needs to nice to have but all simulator yeah that too that's right so that's the use it takes Motor Vehicles out of it that's the thing I I can't keep going back the motor vehicles is the one that that causes the problem for us now people start renting it out you got body shops doing work mechanics come in work on there anti cars you know they all want to have a place where I get it but not feir to the neighbor surrounding them to have you know people in and out about 10 ft from the property line especially 10 ft yeah so the proposal here is to amend the accessory uh setback from 10 to 20 feet or side Set Side setback side and I don't know what it actually is in the the front but it would be the 50 and What's the total size of that building would you when to say it's going to be anything over 500 has to meet the 20250 and then if someone comes in with a th foot garage you look at the building code and ask for the use but so we saying the guy that buys a single family home and he wants to put a garage if he doesn't have a big lot he can't do it he just wants to put small 400 foot 300 foot garage he can put 20 ft 10 ft from the prop it's under 500 yeah okay yeah because anything what's a is it 200 for they don't need a permit 200 200 and then you can change the garage into a just re apartment there you go yeah you can I say you finding gold in that backyards unless we add has to meet the single family home he won't be able to do that if it goes to 20 ft then or be more difficult a lot of gray area no one know really the answer so this would be a proposal the planning board would put put put for a change yeah I think we do it with the whenever we do the Adu is that that one would just be added to our it would be a revision to our setbacks our table of use and setbacks no wouldn't be table of use we'd have to add it to because it's over 500 but it'd be allowable everywhere else still accessory over 500 it would just be allowed everywhere it just you know allowed and everywhere it's already L yeah which is everywhere we just have to click General right so um chairman you said that planning be willing to bring that to town meeting January on I didn't say yeah I mean I mean it's in our area right I don't know about January though I wouldn't I wouldn't factor that in um anybody else have any other comments on that no no you got everything you think I think so okay cool item three discussion and take action relative to amending article 32 registration of a vacant building paragraph 32.3 registration section c annual registration fee to include a graduated fee schedule that was also suggested by Carl um right now I think it's just $100 in regards to the buildings I think the zoning board spoke I think it was our last meeting ni we talked about it we would recommend um Carl's suggestion on the B buildings for The Graduate fee of 100 250 500 we don't want to sit on so You' go 100 250 and then 500 from there out yeah so I think when you stop paying a th000 you probably want to get do something with it rather it overgrown and bring bring down propery values we have a few properties in town like that just paid 100 bucks every year and it sits there so hope there anic this for them need to sell it or do something with it you know and we had a definition of what uh yeah prevention somebody could somebody could have a building and not use it but still take care of it yeah it's in our bylaws right so if it's abandoned we have a choice of having a boarded up I'm not a fan of have it it's empty it's empty I board it up but there is a way of boarding it you feel people are getting in the way doing that you also have to remove any fire load Furniture anything could burn in the building it's vacant uh this will give depends what what building was talking about okay just want to see hopefully something we have to take this an annual registration fee of $100 must accompany the registration form to an annual registration fee based on the following schedule yes I can tell you my office has not sent that out we haven't done anything with it all that's why we put a board to we get some clarification on what we it should be doing and how we can do it um my department will be sending out letters once we figure this out hey you ow us $50 this year for your property me too sometimes they don't even know about it so we'll we'll have to come up with a list of bacon properties contact the owners and tell them it's $50 this year we'll give them the pay schedule going forward hope that helps yeah I'm all for that so hopefully have them clean it up sell it or whatever they need to so we would need clarification is this something you guys are going to do for what for abandon or is this something that the um you roll so might as well right you know you're pushing stuff off and the big the big 100 ton weight is going to come down and I'm GNA move it that way well I mean it could be part of again for for June what would the schedule look like 100 250 500 what's after to 500 th do we want to go to a TH or we keep it 500 um after how many years yeah I mean after five years I think you know th will be okay one 250 500 500 500 and then it goes up to a th so two to five is 500 thousand yeah thousand I think gets people's attention little B more 500 maybe not five years is a long time for able to get be able to collect that money um obviously probably not going collect that money from them we should we should be able to ation form you send in the fee and they go get a registration yeah pay for so we would be we collect that money but the problem we're gonna have Mone if it's foreclosed and bank owned I think the the bigger picture we're trying to get out there is not okay to have your house fall in the pot and pay 50 bucks a year that's not good so anything we do something about that this is to that money somebody sometimes Bank on them for a long time too so oh yeah if you make them pay like say do 100 to 250 and the fire that take care of three years right there that's three years yeah so how do we get that money so if they ever sell it they get a the proper so who pays for um when you have to board build it up and take care of that so the town could put a lean a lean and clean right clean you put a clean the property up you know someone you got high grass and mice and rats and so depending where you are you can put a lean on and clean and lean right we'll get our money back if if we have the resources to do that and only very specific properties that's happening not a if it's a hardship where someone's losing their house they can't afford it we certainly have you know a way of of feing them with that well we just find bacon as 90 days right uh occupi within 90 preceding 90 days yeah but if someone's house looks nice and someone's cutting the grass this will never even be on the radar of the time right TR be now it's more of the high grass falling down five years ago they never did anything sat there and still you live around I live around it we get this iore so we need to do something way houses that look like that people live yeah um so yeah all right so that that that I I have no problem with either that yeah it would just be um use a gradu graduated schedule and I don't know if we have our schedule do we have a separate document for the it's on the back um letter C at the very bottom regra yeah graduated schedule so it would it would have to go here and then we'd have to have the the schedule doesn't go in the bylaw though right it does I hate this having I have hate having the amounts in the bylaw it doesn't make sense to me at all anyway that's just me because then you have to change the bylaw just to change $100 I'm open to the planning board [Music] change yeah we'll we'll uh we'll put that on for the June thing as well keep the co busy okay that's good uh good pick up on that I would anything anybody else have any other questions on that I a comment if I could yeah go ahead just want to recognize you guys know this already recognize the work Nicole's doing the board tell me about it he's holding up a lot smile a lot of people doing a lot of great work I know the board recognizes that and I eyes people want to say thank than yeah thank Youk okay so uh you guys can be dismissed if you want because we're just gonna go than you guys thank we'll have yes so number four discussion and take action relative to fees and costs in the rules and regulations of the planning board governing the subdivision of land bylaw is that on the last page the last two pages yes fees and costs so explain what happened so that we can understand with 32 Claremont so with 32 Claremont they weren't um the abutters weren't notified and it's because in the fees it states that they pay $5 per a butter but they're supposed to be notifying the abuts so they're paying us to notify but they're notifying themselves wait a second they're they're paying $5 for every butter yes with the assumption that the town is going to notify the butters yes but when I was trained by Victoria it was that they notify the abutters themselves but they're still paying us and the $5 per abutter doesn't even cover us to notify a Butters because it's almost $10 to notify and send the certified mail and everything so it doesn't even cover if we were to notify the abuts don't they have to come in with the card from the abuts right and that's what they should be doing and then when 32 Claremont came across and it was time for their public hearing we didn't get the green card so I reached out to them and they said Oh I thought you were supposed to notify which is probably true is because when they they're paying us to notify correct so I think that's the way it should be and then the green cards we we have control over them it's not them that's what it's supposed to be yeah yeah so when I was trained it was the other way even though they're paying us which it was like a a conflict of okay well I thought they notified and then they thought notified so that's fine so we should be doing the notifying but we want to bump this up to cover our cost yeah so if we're the ones notifying that should be bumped up to at least 10 $10 or $12 because I want to say the last time I sent it out was like and all that is almost $10 and then someone else mentioned paying whoever is notifying to do that work which would be the clerk so to do that work another couple of dollars or whatever so 15 wouldn't be out of the would be probably a pretty good number to cover a little bit of uh you know a couple years increase but it's also per butter so we send the same letter out to the same yeah to each of butter so you just print if it's like 10 people you print the same letter and you just print the labels and send it yeah so I don't know if we wanted to do 12 or 13 or where is other towns to what what's your price I haven't looked at that no I can look at that and get back to just be curious and then say well the other thing is Administrative fee here does that include the person doing the right yeah but if it's 960 or something it's going to be 10 bucks you know in a blink of an eye yeah so right we should they've gone up numerous times over the last couple years for postage so yeah and what about these other someone else was saying that $100 per lot that other towns charge like $1,000 per lot but we're charging hundred and that entices people to want to come and build on our in free town but that oh well that's a form a yeah well it's even for the form C it's $100 so I didn't know if we wanted to revise all fees or yeah no if we're going to do it we might as well bump up the fees to something that's you know I don't want to do this in another year yeah well I think the $12 might be good for the abuts because like you said it's close anyway and that and if we have an administrative fee then that's really should be covering the work of it notifying it so I would think $12 we are right there yeah I don't know I have no idea on the other ones I have no idea what to I mean should we should we review other towns and see what they're doing that might give us a a better pretty sure that's for other towns to like 500 bucks that is it for a for a in and B and and c and b is less because it's it's not it's not real subdivision or it's only preliminary it's half the cost of a C I'm fine with those numbers with the with what's currently written here yeah we don't do much work for that I mean I don't think change that numb is going to change if someone's going to come and put a development I towned on you know I don't see that personally happening um but I mean if you wanted to put it up 750 I mean about I don't really think that's going to change yeah we change it number but I mean I want to cover our cost with notifying people but what about the administrative fee that would be one do you think $200 covers whatever work you have to do for the plans coming in um it depends on how big like the subdivision or how like how big the plans are and how many pages they have all that stuff but um I guess it it's kind of unfair for a 20 lot subdivision to pay 200 and a form a right to pay 200 as well but but one size that's what I'd be looking for is to cover our cover our um cover our costs you don't have any cost going to um EPG or anything that's all born by the people submitting the plans I have any comments other comments on this on the numbers we can certainly leave them the same and only change the the butter $12 thing well or I can look at other 's look get a few surrounding times and compare it and see yeah and so I won't we won't even make a motion on the 12 yeah yeah I mean if everybody else is doing a thousand for lot why were you doing 100 so yeah no that's all right so I I won't ask I won't make any approval on on the 12 doll we'll kind of do it all as one we'll do as one in another in another meeting yeah okay but we'll uh look up I'll try to remember to look up if anybody else can look up other town you know local towns Lakeville Lakeville is looking for Town planner too um I saw they were looking for something but I wasn't sure I thought I thought it was or land use administrator or something like three different things I think they had different people showing up for it from different places and they didn't oh only no it's every small to that's an ongo thing people it's everywhere gon throw the most money yeah okay so that was the that that's the only section that you were concerned about okay that's so we'll we we'll bring it up at another at another meeting J for other town and I'll try to do the same okay cool uh that's four five any other business to properly come before the board so I do have something um so I got an email from Deb saying hey how's the master plan coming we're in a time sensitive uh agenda here and I said what Victoria had been the honcho for the master plan we're coming up with a master plan and we last met in like July I think isn't there master plan group there is but when victoria left yeah things fell through the cracks and uh we got a a preliminary draft from serid back in um the middle of October or something and I you know I just said okay I'm I'm on the board on the on the I'm on the committee as as the representative from the planning board so so when I got this email from uh Deb uh what I did is I reached out to Serpent and um Lo behold there is there is grant money that we're using that's going to expire at the end of the year um however they can continue to work until the end of January I don't know how I don't know if they post date the bill I don't know how they do it but they can do that so um the first thing I need to do is can do you have did you send that the master plan the to the master plan committee yes okay can you set up I need to get set up a meeting with them in the first two weeks of December if possible okay so which I thought we were supposed to have a November meeting with the master like master plan committee was supposed to have a no yeah we just like I said yeah Victoria was the driving force and we just yeah we were supposed to have something in in this time frame so um if we could do something I know it's going to be tight but December I jot it down 4th 5th 10th 11th or 12th it's like a THS Wednesday Thursday and a tues Wednesday Thursday uh Tuesday Wednesday Thursday or something 4 5th 10th 11th or 12th something like that yeah for a joint meeting with planning and master no just just master plan you're my this is my thought and I'll I'll try to reach out to Trevor Trevor and I are um co-chairs but I I I got to push the and I'll tell you why in a minute so I get to email him Trevor Trevor Matthews Board of selectman we're coaches nobody could pick up um actually Nick's on the board too nobody wanted to do it so we decided to do coaches however according to Mass General law the planning board now this this plan have you sent it to our board yet the mass the draft of the M send send the draft yeah this plan is all aspects of the town you know where there should be areas of growth where you should do this where you should do that it's but the planning board is supposed to approve it if we do any kind of approval the guy said some towns go to town meeting and approve it but he says you know that's you but it's it's under our under our which I had no idea until I talked until I emailed them yesterday Friday I had no idea we had to vote on an approval of it or something um having a town master plan is is is good it was it's good when you're going for Grants of course now that we voted down the NBTA that may be a move point but it's good to have something there and to have an idea of what what the town should be doing based on what Ser did surveys and came up with these you know their number one thing is you really got to build a new town hall and a new a new centralized building that you know which yeah of course but um and we haven't had it we haven't had a master plan in town here for in for a long time so I wouldn't want all the work we did to just go down the tube so what I was going to do is try to meet with the master plan committee and say hey do we have any comments or questions do we need serpent to make any changes every willing to do changes till the end of the year and then they got to present it to the public again they've already had a couple of sessions for um the public but one more of them and then we would vote on potentially adopting it or you don't you don't do anything it doesn't have any meat you know it doesn't Force us to do anything it just says hey yeah we have a town we have a a master plan here I would look for that in say February or March or something and um so the idea would be meet with master plan committee the first two weeks in December and then we have a meeting on the 17th make sure we don't have anything that we want to tweak in it and then I can go to Serpent and say yeah this is nothing or it was all this or something um so that's my master plan kind of under the gun here because I didn't realize that we were just going to run out of money and if it's not complete then we nobody will do it it'll just sit there and that's that'll be a shame so send that out to the board try to set up a meeting with the master plan committee with everybody um and then on the 17th we'll make sure that it'll be an agenda item for us to make sure that we're again a lot of its seore extension there's all sorts of stuff in it um but it's feedback from towns what the town wants to what people want and so that's my my surprise that I just got yesterday on Friday actually um so that's that's that any questions on that you're you're going to do the master plan and then what's that going to be broken up at a town meeting for people to vote on things no it does not have to be it's up to it's totally up to the town whether we want the town to try to vote on it say yes it but Mass General figure out how how she's going to get this sewer line through I I my proposal is to have us if we think it's okay I mean I you know approve it and then just it's approved and it's on the books as being approved and then if they need it as a feather in their cap for going for anything else or anything we have a master plan here it is so like if there's a grant and like like in the town is aiming to kind of get this grant at least they say they have a plan yeah of course that was before we that was before we uh denied MBTA so that might throw every a monkey wrench but yes that was the idea that's why you don't want throw it out correct that's why we're voting on it have something to say hey but I I wouldn't put it in front of the time I think that would right now doesn't mean anything right no it doesn't no we don't have to follow work doesn't get lost it's a it's a it's a plan it's a mapping that we can use doesn't mean it has to we're supposed to approve it the planning board is supposed to approve it didn't realize that it's Mass General I did not know that I thought it was I thought it was going to go in front of town the town meeting and all that s copy at some point right it's pretty extensive it's very extensive they've had a couple of me like the strawberry festival they had a booth there and they went through and they had online yeah yeah interactive map and things so that you could do and then send your feedback ask what you'd like to see and then they looked at all these things it's kind of what the town I mean you know so I don't want all that to go to to go to waste if if you know if we run out of money so I want them to be on board they will continue to work on it until January 31st and basically January would be presenting it to the public again he goes not many people are going to show up in January all that and then I'd bring it up here in February March or something just so we have it you guys may vote it down you may say it looks like a cracker whatever but anyway that that's that's my plan that's so you'll get that in the mail you can uh anybody else any other questions on that are you coun about the yes remember I said I had to ask them about something that's another question of course now the qu I am going to ask him I asked Deb about that everything gets copied to her when you go to Town Council and she sent me his contact and introduced him to me so I'm going to ask him about I was waiting till tonight like it says everybody I T talked to everybody has a different opinion of the whole thing yeah yeah so I'll see what he says about it so yep that's about how we recover if if a if a subdivision goes goes bankrupt or somebody doesn't finish a project what how we yeah I saw that email it seems like it seems like the way they do it is they wait until the person stops paying the taxes on it and then it goes into tax title but that that's a problem yeah that's what it takes so long yeah and the point is if the town takes it when it's in tax title and they sell it now they have to give the extra profit back to the person that's a new LW yeah it seems like it's in the town bab to just keep prolonging and prolonging until the price is the same thing that you can sell a lot for that can take 20 years right I'll just I'll see he may we'll see I'll ask him anything else anybody James you've been on very patient on the phone anything you want to bring up I hope you've been able to hear most of this yeah yep first time in the zoom but no I followed along lot of good okay all right good I'm glad you were able to uh to uh join uh anything else anybody so a motion to uh in a second to adjourn I'll make a motion I'll second all those in favor I I thank you not bad it's a lot of stuff we have to do oh yeah we haven't workload like this a long time since I remember