##VIDEO ID:gpefyPyeUXc## okay we are recording time 5:27 p.m. okay so we did start a little early we probably have some people walking I never rely on my watch the uh and you want minutes to we over minutes or we can take we can do that after if you want um if you guys don't mind we'll let these guys go first they're going to present their sorry to us you sure they don't want to listen to the St water pollution prevention plan I think so they they haven't got too much that uh favorable to say about some of the preservation cuz they're losing their airport trying to huh about losing what they're losing their airport and the you guys can explain yeah you guys yeah well just briefly I I'll introduce ourselves very quickly I'm Matthew Carr my compatriots over here were all glider pilots clette and Peter judge and our tug pilot main guy so bottom line is yeah we've been Towing out of Tanner Hiller for the last scatch going on 12 years I'd say close to 13 13 sorry got that exact I I actually been flying out of there for about 17 myself and when I had some powered aircraft I had a you know an ultr light so on prior um but yes we are working for a new home uh we're not sure there's some legal issues going on with Tanner because the con the way the conservation group that acquired it did it in a very kind of I'd call it underhanded way but we'll get into that later bottom line is they're looking at um you know flipping it over to Fish and Wild Game and Fish and Wildlife and mass and then completely taking it out entirely so it will be nothing but essentially a bike trail something um so yeah that's really it very brief is that we're looking for a place we we tow like a normal sail plane operation same Concepts we gliders with just lower performance slower and um you know we tow up we release we thermal out sometimes fly for hours you know used to fly cross country long distances but we're got kind of old and lazy now we tend to come back and land at the airport just cuz it's you know a little more convenient um but uh yeah I mean that's essentially it they're looking for a place mostly we need a a home for Rett for he has two aircraft plan powered in a what we got tandem un because he does tellw people up they want to learn so on so that's a lot of the fun part you know they can actually tellw up and release with a with an instructor right the rest of us are doing solo um meaning we just go up and free fly like any sail plane so uh I think uh the important part for him for the time being that we need is really a hanger you know he has airplane like anybody else and trying to maintain them and keep them in good shape so exactly got to do that got to have some kind of hanger to can't have a fabric airplane tied down out there for too very long without some sort of problems the center probably could figure out you know a hanger for them that would be that would be good and I really only need one like enough room for one of them put together a full hanger the other one I can actually uh break down put the wings you know for storage I don't need to operate to at one time so what's the wings span on roughly or uh you know I'd have to check but I want to say like 34 35 ft something like that okay little less than a j3 or something I guess you said you'll check on those couple of options potentially you may have some good ideas for us on that um you know we're they haven't said yes before but I'll approach it again just just see where check it out yeah you might be willing to change yeah that be great so I'm sorry that was very brief but is there any questions and you know the way we operate I mean essentially we yeah what do you use for uh what's your traffic pattern well it depends what you what you would want here is it a left yeah we certainly could could could just I know a Tanner we generally had a leftand pattern right ended up a lot of houses and things you would end up over and uh we actually there and I checked with Steve on it you know he's kind of been there a very long time and uh so we actually did a rightand pattern at Tanner uh at least uh on the one end because it wasn't over houses and it wasn't over things and it's like I think it's smart to go over farms and it is that uh and I didn't see a problem you know with the activities going on out there of course there's there's more here there is there but we certainly can any kind of pattern that you guys think may be better for us we certainly could talking and on or just either how you how you mix in with the other aircraft right because we have a lot of students that come up here and use this because we have a peratal Crossman and they like training with here they come up by and do you know touch and goes or Landings and take offs and things like that if it's a windy egg which probably you wouldn't be flying anyhow but you might uh at some point you might cross P that's so I'm looking at I know U I flew out of Jaffrey for many years and uh they had a lot of over lights up there and U they were doing right hand pattern pretty much um that was basically established as a right hand pattern and they were kept at I think 5 to 700 maybe it might been just 500 fet they were supposed to be and then they come into the pattern land on the runway side whatever they did um helicopters generally use like right hand patterns when they come into the p I think that's standard for them but there they be up I don't know Fe you guys might know better than I would some of that well the main thing is I think we're pretty flexible push and if you guys no we we just right hand left hand or you know yeah I don't know we could I mean we could work it out I mean I just want to be sure that when Mard or somebody comes in and says what's going on this is what we've got we got it established and this side of the runway you might have to wear water wings if you decid to get down off airport but other than your left hand both ends we're left hand all the time for airplanes and then you switch over to the other side the wind yeah when we have a south wind uh they down window is on that side The Left Hand p so they just flip over to the other side mhm but uh the uh it it's mostly the separation of Al and just watch I've had a close encounter with a ultra light Landing in Jeffrey one day and these guys weren't playing by anybody's rules and they weren't from the area and it was close but do you mon the frequency you don't have I yeah um for the flights we were we were off the very end of a Runway there and uh unfortunately with the noise and the wind and stuff uh it's not like a cabin inside an aircraft you can't hear very well but on the ground I can hear yeah uh really good and usually for those I would uh uh announce U uh on the tandem flights so those are kind of in the Middle Field we got guys out there and we didn't really uh depend on the radios because we starting at near the end of the runway we were kind of more near the center of the field because that's all the runway we need we're doing the the solo we're using all the runway and the grass on the ends so's the lift off 3 400 ft with your ground roll oh you know it depends on the L how much depends on you know how big somebody is uh in the case ofers they're usually in the air about the length of the Rope uh and from there so 200 and um and from there depending again on a number of things uh it's usually in the neighborhood of 300 ft a minute something like that with tandem flights it can be a little better than that it can be a little worse than that depending on here coming over the the the hill there lots of canner and uh then the old things like density altitude and that plays a uh plays a factor but always found it was more the convective activity um and some of the flow over the hills affected things much more than normal conventional thinking with um you know uh uh the um you know the density of the of the air you know on a hot day when it's real thin the density altitude uh pling a big big rule it's always been funny to me on a larger aircraft where they figure that down to a te and it works but we're flying through such micro meteorology what's going on right there vastly changes what we do and it's almost not even a factor it's that much difference so anyway things you learn fly things really slow versus yeah going going fast quite very susceptible to the up and we are and also just uh roll which we like yeah you know like like if if there's some turbulence coming over the the trees there probably when it starts approaching probably like a Tanner uh we have a hard time dealing with it with slow flying things and even with a dynamic controls you have a you you have a problem dealing with it and uh the hand gliders are weight shift and they even have less roll control so when they get messed up it gets pretty crazy so it's taking us like what 50 years to figure out that when the wind's blowing a little bit we just don't fly yeah we light wind we we also have uh we've had two week first two weeks of September we had Sterling who F the gliders out and some planes because they were going to be closed and uh I know when the glider oper was here back when they were doing it up there we were pretty good around here because they had the city and the city had a lot of parking lots they get over the city and they just sit there in circle and go up up up and up and uh so I think we're a little denser populated than bar and we've got areas and we're more so now but uh you think we can all live together very well and they here again with you right uh right hand patter and uh depending on which way the wind was going and then come in and land and the Crash usually over there okay yeah that you guys think that would be a better way to go certainly do that well that's that's kind of what I'm thinking that uh just keep you separated enough uh it's kind of ironic cuz the most I've ever my personal experience is the only time I've had come close to a midair was pburg with all the students I had one guy go under me well I had one up at uh in uh San FR main one day this last year but uh fitzburg was years ago and with the students they weren't listening and they were all over the place and uh the one in sanf was a guy just coming the other way on the runway he took off to the the windows out of the North everybody was using the north he took off to the South yeah he went over me at 200 ft I stayed at 100 or 50 and went under him and I kept going but uh I asked thefo up there and he says oh yeah we know who it is he does it all the time but you know just doesn't have gu for anybody else so were you thinking something where uh where it'd be like right hand right hand for us or left hand right hand right hand for you guys and you know maybe I don't know 5 to 700 ft pattern altitudes 1,000 ft yeah um just keep it separated that way um I don't know I run it up the ladder a little bit to find out what everybody thought but yeah anybody else got any questions yeah you guys so you don't have any radios do you see so we used to on somebody with no radios around and uh yeah and it is Trail here like I was saying right we're not super busy um we get some traffic from pitchburg but not a lot they'll come over and get fuel do a couple of uh you know stopping gos touching gos and and then go back to Fitchburg it's pretty quiet here and out there is very quiet and you have event weekends once in a while you mentioned you have events happening here yeah we're trying to have more of that any probably police H pardon prob the EV yeah we had the we just had the jet people come up and they took over the one end of the runway and I think we figured out a way to do it if they want to but I haven't heard from them since before Co yeah we haven't we were interested in having them come back but we didn't uh we didn't get that coordinated but yeah maybe some by way if it was bsy we could that weekend or something yeah but even with when we we had the jet traffic really good about you want to go out go ahead you know they just wait 10 minutes and you're gone and when you were coming back they'd be they had spots in the air boss and watched everything and uh they uh they did good I've I've even gone out and come back while they were operating and uh it's not a problem and it's safe that's the whole thing but so anyway I'll make some inquiries and see if I can come up with something the other thing is too for the other I guess the power ultral lights and stuff um you know uh I'm assuming you're thinking the same thing with those and the uh I mean the aircraft that I tow with is a light sport uh light sport aircraft the that would yeah that would be a if it's a light sport that would classifies an airplane so you go out uh you know you CL probably straight out and they would say that if you had to go downwind with a toll you go take a right hand you stay in the right hand P I would think but I don't know what do you guys think ideas on that cuz normally if you weren't Towing you have to be left handti because you're almost with the aircraft I mean where your cruise at right I didn't know well no ultra light speeds oh Ultra yeah I mean powered ult speeds power ult light it is truly light sport but light sport doesn't have anything to do with the pattern it's the speed that has to do with that if you want to try to jam it in the category it'd be different but you probably I would think the other think the ultra whes would want to stay on the same the power ultra gets confusing here because the handlers are also Ultra whes but the power ultra whites would probably want to do uh similar as these slow lights for aircraft I guess you can say you know they're slow aircraft they fit together uh because the whole problem is fitting fitting in with what we call normal aircraft are the speeds right that's the problem and of course there like board aircraft that are fast and those fit in that's why it always said like sport but uh that's why I like sport is there's two different light sports sports there's a sports category right or what they call them I forget how that works yeah so so anyway light sport you have fast and you have slow and you have so slow that they're like ultra light speeds SS fine anyway I just trying to clarify for the you know I mean we need to be educated on that too I'm just going by personal experiences with a lot of the stuff but um I don't know much about them well in particular the one that I'm flying for towing the uh hand gliders DRS um it's very slow and that's why I'm able to tow the yeah that's what I the hand gliders and that's why I was saying probably the right hand pattern is better that's right that's right so and these other slow Ultra whites which are slow they they would the powered lights would fly the same so I'm thinking thinking like will Paul that's not here that has uh a power I'm almost like in between my plane has like a 40 mph stop 60 so it could that's right go either Direction with it yeah it it I think it all depends on how comfortable you are with other airpls that's right you know um I don't do you go to other airports not yet actually I just finished my uh dual hours of rep here and I'm waiting a solo officially and then all this stuff happened at the airport and I just had a new kid last night actually I had to go back to the hospital got tied up recently but uh I bought my first house across the river from taner Hill to raise my family there and play at the airport now this is heartbreaking what's going on so I'd love to be part of this move if it ends up happening yeah and you know here again I I'm just all about promoting Aviation and I think there's many facets to Aviation and we can all live together and uh it's just if you're uh it's having somebody around that knows that there is other aircraft and you can listen to the radios and song somebody can has a way of signal somebody or whatever to get out of the way or tell the other aircraft there is an ultra light in the pattern M right hand pattern thing away look and uh that makes it easier because when guys don't play by the right rules then they they get into trouble and you can see it and but that's good good I'm happy any other questions anybody and if you have any other for us please let us know radios we it is we use radios but only in used to and we don't really work CU it was just more of a convenience in the old days yeah but um we used pretty much only 2 me Business Band style radios little you know should have somebody with a with a you know 1228 horable or an aircraft radio that can be on the ground or looking yeah and uh that would be the only I I think it would uh the only thing for us is and I think the importance of the grass is you know once we're um on approach and we have no you know like the loose lift we're gliding we have no choice oh yeah we're coming down and and the idea is that that that amount of time cuz your pattern will be tighter Y and you'll be slower and uh the other aircraft would have to you know either do one loop around the pattern or something to or go out do a three 60 or something like that but uh yeah it's just having somebody watch what's going on a little bit especially while people are learning you update with the FAA that there are hang gliders or ultral lights operating we can could not a problem them just say occasional but if it becomes all the time then you know cuz I'm assume you guys like evenings in the summer and things like that go go later in the day that's probably not the right assumption we go all day yeah but I mean well the training uh yes early morning late evening early morning but but the most advantageous time experience would be two of the day yeah the yeah exactly yeah yeah so I was explained as well we did we have the the train tandem intro flights I was telling you about and those are usually morning and evening and then during the middle of the day the guys that are soaring they're looking for good and so there's uh so there's that going on but uh also since we're so you know the what used to be ideal uh we you know probably average probably two to three days a week probably two and a half days a week we have cuz some days might be four days in and then there'll be a week or two get by and we don't do anything so any we used to we used to oh fly no matter what that's kind of gone all right well thank you very much for letting us know that's very you got all their information yeah I thank you consider thanks take congratulations thank you very much really nice to me you thank you thank you very much than you very got my probably coming back over Vis bit and talking a little okay great super and I only live 16 minutes away deal thank you guys okay back to the regularly scheduled program that that Master Plan sure clears a [Music] party are they going to bring any to the airport they rant they buy fuel occasionally probably but they don't like 100 for the road Automotive yeah I don't know we'll work on it you got to get that Popsicle stand going and they'll do that that will'll be all set um did everybody get a copy of our update no um did you look at the minutes okay you want to some or do you want [Applause] continue [Music] you it was complicated trying to figure out how to do for the meeting because we so much and a I took I took all my from so I need a motion to accept the minutes if that's your desire or I'll make a motion accept the minutes okay and I a second second and any questions or anything reading try checking them off of typos no guarantee so if we we approve the next yep a couple more prove a minute okay I'll prove it one more okay um okay do your thing okay I'll face yeah I pull this chair up okay are you sure you no at all okay I'm in the um so the um the runway reconstruction project um we all know the main apring was reconstructed so I'm starting on the blue text on page to by the way um or give me Wills so main apron reconstructed um before June 30th which is the deadline mot has for their airport safety and maintenance program uh grants all work has to be um completed and submitted by that time so that was all done um walkth through was held with M OB 27th um so that seems it everything good with the apron concerns anything things seems good okay um I know there's been some flooding that has occurred on the airport um during some storms earlier in the summer so there have been some additional erosion control measures um installed to help hopefully some of that grass um establish and alleviate um additional flooding or is there anything that we should know since last time the mats don't like helicopters the mats don't like like helicopters oh really yeah they tend to roll up the they Twisted they rolled it up along the side cuz the Mas off was in here for two days working on MIT and they were coming up to t uh which section just down on us furled it and flatten it out again and but uh they were back and forth on the taxi way with the helicopter and just uh it just rolled up into a a tunnel and we've had a couple of helicopters in here they're buying fuel from us now and so they they tend to do that too but we will keep working on okay good to know um I won't go into hopefully hopefully too much detail or take too much time but we talked a little bit last month about the airp reps um industrial storm water pollution prevention plan and that is a requirement of the Environmental Protection Agency um all industrial facilities you know including airports basically have to have a plan that shows um where discharge water storm water discharge is leaving the airport and entering any sorts of other um water sources River streams ponds Brooks you know Etc um so Gail has put together um a draft Swip we'll call it um is and that so that's all complete what we have to do now is apply for permit coverage because the airport will actually receive a permit under it's called a multi sector General permit um basically to discharge storm water which is you know it's an existing facility it's already happening um but so we've uh started preparing What's called the notice of of intent um and that's pretty much mostly assembled gy um and the Swip is mostly assembled I'm just looking for a couple of plan updates um you know uh revising those things and getting them um in top shape before anything gets posted um so that will be submitted and the Swip includes um basically plans for how the airport should monitor um storm water controls and things like that and I just wanted to I guess bring to everyone's attention um some of the requirements um under under this permit that will have to be conducted so there's um a few different things that need to happen with respect to inspections there are routine facility inspections and those are typically um conducted once per quarter and really what um the intention of that is walk around the airport um take a look at the different um storm water controls areas that have the potential to be um have storm water come in contact with them you're basically looking for any sort anything that that might be um you know wrong with any of these storm water management systems and not noting and documenting um there's also what's called a quarterly visual assessment of storm water discharge so you'd have to also go out to the outfall during a rain event and collect a sample in a clear jar and inspect it and you're looking for things like uh you know is it anything other than clear water with no smell um so if there's an odor if there's suspended solids if there are any sort of materials foam anything like that that needs to be documented and noted um there are two other components those things are typically handled um on the airport side but there are two monitoring requirements that are new um under this uh newly developed um permit and those are what's called indicator monitoring and impaired Waters monitoring I won't get into the crazy details but effectively um at various points throughout the coverage under this permit you actually have to not only take the sample but you have to send it out to a lab to be analyzed so the indicator mod monitoring what they're looking for is um different um pH chemicals um and there are you know certain parameters there there aren't any thresholds right now basically EPA just wants to know at airports this is every you know airport under this system um are any of these chemicals present at all and that has to be analyzed by a lab and reported into their recording you know there's a portal where you can upload all this documentation and where do these chemicals come from manufacturing processes they could y they could they could come from and because there um there's you know industrial activity going on here at the airport you know you have fuel here you have yeah but you have fuel here you have um you know pavement um pavement maintenance that happens you have you know airplanes it's really mostly the fuel that would be you know of concern but we have you'll see when you actually look through the um the Swift document itself we've identified every single area where there might be a chemical there might be a type of fuel there might be any sort of item that could be discharged into the storm water and that's all really clearly identified where where does the storm water go now into the ground it um it goes into there are all kinds of different um drainage ditches and swes and then there are ultimately outfalls where the water leaves the airport property and discharges into areas like one of the concerns and I'll talk about this is surrounded by swamps yep and and different streams and rivers and things like that and actually the otter river is one of yep is one of the um areas where there's a discharge and that is actually listed classified under the epa's classification system it's an impaired water so um if an airport or any facility discharges to an impaired water um you have to do what's called impaired water monitoring which is similar to the indicator monitoring collect a sample it has to go out to a lab but you're looking for that specific chemical that's causing um the pollution basically in that body of water so that's all outlined um we have the you know the chemical that you're looking for um and you can you know the airport can send this out to a lab I don't know Jim if anyone from DPW within the city I'd imagine that there are other industrial facilities that probably fall with within this system um within the city and I don't know how the city handles if they have someone that um a lab that they use or if they have a procedure so there might be there might be something I would check I would check with the city I can ask I can ask yeah okay and and Isabelle I'll send you um some more detail on this of of what needs to happen there are um you know different forms and everything that you could possibly need to be in compliance with this requirement is included in that um storm water pollution prevention plan so any form you need procedural things um all of that is included and I'm happy at any time you know to sit down and go into a lot more detail with you you about what needs to happen and when and how and all that maybe the the uh dump for the transfer station already has something they they may yeah they they may they very well may I I would imagine that that would be something I mean there are definitely other industrial facilities within a city that would you know presumably fall under one of these categories so um so I bet someone at DPW would know exactly what you're talking about if we reach out so um so anyway I just wanted to give the update and let all of you know that those are some additional requirements now that are coming under uh the new permit and that will have to start making sure you know the airport will have to start making sure that you're complying with those things and submitting the reports and getting the um you know all the tests done that you need to do and what permit is it it's called a multi sector General permit for storm water discharge and industrial facilities oh I see it okay y Ms msgp msgp msgp I got it okay I know so many I try not to say all the acronyms all the time cuz I'm like at no you know it's like so many different alphabet soup going on um so the samples would be taken on Airport property they would be taken at the the discharge point so we'll put a we have a plan put together that shows like basically all that storm outfalls um and you'd have to go and collect the sample for so we we have a designated spot yes would you collect that's exactly right yep so there are five um at the airport I know that the one of the items that we need to complete is um we have to do a site visit to confirm all of the locations and make sure that they're you know correct um and take a look at some of the different um you know storm Water Management areas and make sure that there aren't any concerns um that would need to be addressed so I wonder as we had a contamination where the fuel tank is because the INR tank we had it was about number of years ago that was clean that we completely that so when you when you fill out the the notice of intent which is the application for this permit um you have to report you you go basically a component of it is looking up any sort of spills that happened on the airport property within the last 3 years so if it was long ago it's yeah it's nothing that has to be reported within this it's just recent things that was all dug out and so was chopped off in New York and tested everything like that the uh cuz this is the headquarters of the a but a mile down not even Downstream we have a wastewater treatment plant m into the haror is downam yeah and the and keep going by automo Salvage Y and it goes down to all you even follow it all the way down through bille cuz they have a s over there too well the good news is you're not testing the otter River you test what's coming off the airport so you know um presumably if everything if all your storm water controls are in good working order presumably there wouldn't you know there there wouldn't be anything detected but that's really what they're what they're looking for and with the indicator monitoring to just see are any of these chemicals coming off of this facility I think they're the only thing that is right now cuz we have fresh pay HS who be you know whatever they call them I don't know the residue they the payment gets dried out and the evapor takes quite all to do that and highways stuff like that so I would say we're probably anything up here like I say we're at the headqu after it goes underneath the highway roof two anything goes after that so you got all you know it'll be interesting and like they say here you was saying that they don't have any parameters yet yeah because it's a brand new rules with many things yeah so so anyway that's just a very broad brush overview of like you know how basically how this will affect the daytoday operations and what the requirements are um I'll give a lot more detail to you know Isabelle and Jim and you know and everyone will be able to review that document um it will do you do the samples yourself or do you have to have an expert come in or do we know yet yeah the the airport could take the samples um there's a sampling guide but you would have to it out to a professional lab so um you know um and have it have it tested and have the test results you know come back but there are certainly companies that that do um Swift you know implementation that you could hire um gaale Associates is not an environmental firm so we you know we don't we don't have that service that we offer um but that would be you know something that you could look for is one I think I mentioned it to the mayor last time I was in his office we were talking about it a little bit he says do this all yeah okay so if there's I mean there might even be someone within the city that that already does this and they already have a procedure that's where I I would recommend starting starting within the city and seeing if you can just get roped into what you know wrapped into the overall City program of whatever it is that they do and how they conduct these things as long as they understand that you know it has to be submitted on a certain schedule presumably um you know they would send the report to you or you Jim or or Isabelle and you would be able to submit the report on behalf of the airport but maybe they' help you out with t I'll find out and rep on at next uh meeting okay that sounds great and call me any questions you have about it because I know I just gave like a really broad overview of it but um so that's all I have as far as the Runway um reconstruction project and the Swift are concerned um really actions request of the commission so coordinating with Gail to post the draft Swift to the airport's website once that you know document is finalized and then executing the notice of intent so I as you know the consultant I am authorized to be what's called a preparer of the application but I'm not authorized to actually execute it so all have to do Jim is just create an account log in sign it and there you go so it should be pretty straightforward I can walk you through all that okay any questions concerns before I move on okay airport master plan um item number two on page three starting in the blue I know we' talked about the hazard beacons at length so just to let everybody know um we did receive that determination um from the airspace office on those beacons and they were determined to be you know deemed as hazards to air navigation as they call it um so I followed up with them because you know the plan for action of what actually needs to happen with these things was not clear so I reached out to the airspace office um Robert had agreed to be you know the CC on me so he's been um on the correspond it's unfortunately he's you know obviously isn't here um but I reached out to the airspace office and said hey is there you know can you provide a little bit more insight on what needs to happen and they said you really need to work with the airport District's office um the planner and the engineer there to develop that plan so I poured all of that stuff over to Colleen Mayu and Sam smiy over at FAA and I asked them if they can jump in and kind of provide a little bit more guidance on you know what what has to happen here are these do these beacons need to come down um and next steps will also obviously discuss whether or not that's something that is eligible for funding through AIP and all those sorts of things so please stay tuned working really hard to get some answers on these things but hopefully you know we've at least had that determination so the district office can start making some decisions and helping us out so it's funny they we put them up to show of the obstructions and now we have to take them down because they are obstruction so yeah so so they changed um the flight procedures has changed their requirements and now they don't like terrain penetrations because they're already noted in you know in the traffic P you know in the their files effectively um so they don't require them to be lit anymore so now here you have the these you know you have these obstruction lights that are up that are now penetrations themselves so but but we'll we'll try to work and get some answers on on this stuff I know you've been waiting for a really long time three years so we're moving um any questions about the beacons before I move on to the next thing okay um so last time we went over the Alternatives through chapter six I um updated the chapter to reflect the the commission's recommendations I forwarded that chapter along to FAA and mot I did receive comments back Monday afternoon from FAA um but I still to date and I haven't looked at my email since I've been in this meeting but I have not received um comments back from Mass doot and I figured rather than try to you know go through faa's comments one day and the mass 's comments on a different day I would compile all of them um for our next meeting in November and then present anything that they have any changes that they're requesting um and then if there are any changes that need to happen to the plans that all of you looked at um I'll highlight those things and if that changes the commission's opinion on what they would like to recommend for an alternative we can certainly update that to whatever the commission chooses so stay tuned again on that um for next meeting in November and I expect to have you know that together by then I would also um following that you know approval of all the Alternatives um I would also like to discuss the schedule of improvements um and that will lay out you know outline all of your different projects um coming up through uh the short term which is the next 5 years what's really important to get done soon um and then you'll look at your midterm projects so what needs to happen 6 8 10 years from now and then anything that's longterm so out to that 20year Horizon that we've talked about before um so that's what's coming the other thing that will be need to be done is the Airport layout plan which is um the sheet set that it will have your existing conditions plan it will have a big airport data sheet that has all of your information about um dimensions of safety are and surfaces and coordinates of different points on the airport all that stuff you also have um what's called the ultimate Airport layout plan which is the plan showing all of the proposed improvements um on the airport that the commission has decided on that ultimate Airport layout plan will actually be circulated for Signature so the airport will sign approving it um also Mass do and FAA will sign that document and then it becomes um an official document and that becomes the tool that the airport uses for the next you know really usually about 15 years before you go into another master plan process but it'll help guide the airport as to what needs to happen um you know to achieve those goals that you're setting here um any questions comments on the M keep it moving project number three Wildlife hazard assessment actually going to page five of five uh no update since last month we know that we are waiting until spring 2025 to have newer ecological come out and conduct that site visit so um we'll get that you know project started as soon as we can in the springtime and then unless there are any questions on that I can move into um the CIP item and Mt if you have anything to add just any point um so I know we discussed at the last month's meeting the airport's uh fiscal year 2025 project which is proposed to be an environmental assessment with um an obstruction study component I had showed everyone that plan um where flight procedures had identified uh penetration points off of both Runway ends I know you have the 18b survey that's being conducted that will collect a lot of that obstruction information and so so we're proposing as part of that environmental assessment to also do um an obstruction study that will show you exactly where these trees are located are they on Airport property are they on private property um will you need to um coordinate with private property owners to remove some of these trees that are obstructing or other objects that might be obstructing into those approach surfaces and really give you a sense of um you know from a state standpoint what needs to happen the environmental assessment component is required uh by the FAA to satisfy what's called National Environmental Policy Act NEPA requirements and those are um basically any federal action that's undertaken or any action that's undertaken with Federal money has to go through an environmental review process um so any of your projects that you would have coming up um for example if you you had um you know the E if you had to acquire easements to remove some trees on private property actually conducting that tree clearing um constructing your you know the fence was one of the one of the items really what FAA wants to see is that the airport is is considering all those environmental factors for short-term projects so really anything that's anticipated you know within the next 5e period has to go through that review process um so we have also included um the state component the Massachusetts Environmental Policy Act similar um you know similar requirements for for review there so um we'll discuss you know at scoping meeting what exactly you know we're looking at and what um thresholds may or may not be be triggered as a result of some of these projects um really I know um so just I think the bottom line is is the estimated total cost for the project so that's for your environmental assessment for the uh meepa the state component of that document and for the obstruction analysis we've estimated at $295,000 um and we have confirmation from FAA that under the AIP program um they'll be contributing 95 5% Federal funding um and then projects that are under the B program the bipartisan infrastructure law program um would still receive the 90% because that had already been set as part of um that legislation does that mean that M do will pay the rest or will we still have a small local5 two they've indicated probably 2.5% um on on AIP projects now whether or not FAA will require a combination of bil money and AIP money um on this project sometimes they've done that in the past um is is to be determined at this time but I guess the discussion that I would want to have tonight um or just the request that I have of the commission is to confirm the local share will be available for the fiscal year 2025 project so um you know we what would the local share be it would be um it could be up to 5% of that 295 but likely um it it could be the 22% so it's just unknown at this time whether whether FAA would allow the airport to take up the full Grant as the airport Improvement program and get 95% Federal money or if they'd say nope we'll do for example your $150,000 of nonprimary entitlement under AIP and the rest has to go under the B I'm not sure what they'll do but I just want you to be aware that it might not all fall under that 95% bucket yeah I think it would be very hard to get uh local share until next July although I was going to ask um if we could Poss keep some of our fuel sales and rent sales and to come up with that amount just for that short term while the FAA is has that higher threshold um I had that in writing but I didn't have the conversation yet but I did sort of tell them about it so yeah and and we can certainly I mean once we get um into the process where you know we're actually scoping the project um if certain things you know are not as stringent we're basically looking at you know and I hate to say like worst case scenario but we try to put you know give you basically what the most expensive option for this project might be knowing that you know some things may not like maybe the Massachusetts thresholds are not tripped that could happen and then that component of the project wouldn't be necessary what we think is likely Jack and I have taken a preliminary look at that we don't think we're triggering we don't think the tree clearing easements or fencing are tripping any of the meepa thresholds so that I don't know how much was that 75 I think it was yeah I think it was it it was was it the maybe it was 20 it was it was one of those numbers I think the point is we haven't officially scoped this project and we've just taken a we scratched the surface on looking at the different thresholds I don't think you're triggering any sort of meepa thresholds which will drive this project cost down but to Jackie's Point coming out of the CIP meeting discussing with the agencies what may be needed for this next environmental project we wanted to give you all the full scope so that's what we're presenting okay um just be aware it would be very difficult this fiscal year to get the local Shar yeah okay so well I mean so so as as you can you know make it for us to be able to get a local share to get something done and and we would be looking at just so you know the the process would be to submit um planning grants the application deadline is March 1st and as you saw with the wildlife hazard assessment the 18b survey they don't even typically issue funds until later in the summer I know um you know I believe the I believe the grant offer date was July 30th for both of those projects that came online this year so um so you wouldn't even be looking at having to come up with that local share and then of course you know you have to the project off and actually get everything you know contracts together and whatnot so you wouldn't actually even be looking for work to start on the ca likely until September maybe even October of next year depending on how long it takes for everything to be process just to give you a realistic picture so it could be a year from you know a little less than a year from now before the Project's actually kicking off and you're needing to contribute those yeah July 1st like local share availability is not an issue ja's point we go through all the scoping now SM the grant applications and we literally sit and wait for the fa to fund these projects just doesn't happen until next next summer September October time frame so okay okay so um just to just to kind of start having those conversations but massot and FAA are starting and I should have added this on to the update I apologize but um they are starting to scheduled scoping meetings for these projects so I would hope uh Jim and Isabelle uh that you I can work with the two of you offline to attend um a scoping meeting it's looking like I think they've booked most of their October dates uh Santa smiies had indicated that she was going to send out another uh round of meeting availability for November so we'd probably be looking at November time frame the one thing that would need to happen in advance again would be that independent fee estimate that we did that we've done for these other projects so that would have to happen um in advance in the fun F would have to be expended for that if in advance um so it'll be you know that but that's yeah correct and that's still a little ways up we got to get through scoping first just before we submit for March 1st yeah exactly oh okay yeah so yeah probably probably looking to do that if realistically January time frame would be when we be ready to be doing that so um so anyway I guess I'll take any question questions that any of you have for me for you know anyone else that I can take back to the office I guess the high is trying to wrap your mind around trying to figure out we nailed down and cl estimates on how much we got to go and which where we got to go y for this point yeah and I and I think I think um getting through the process of um you know actually scoping the project to be able to put numbers to paper um it's again you I mean you were the c meeting it's a ball park it's a ballpark number so um you know we we can certainly fine-tune that to I I just you know always very L about committee before I know where we're at and think everybody's going to doing that and what going to be yeah and we can we can really nail down in the scoping meeting to and clarify with FAA hey how much of this project is going to be at that 95% because that will that will drive yeah will have a big impact on whether the airport can you know complete this project in this fiscal year um so we we'll certainly make sure that that is Crystal Clear when we all walk out of that meeting yeah okay um I don't anybody got any questions or sounds like a lot a lot of work a lot of a lot of reading and uh was we knew the next few years was going to be studies studies studies and uh the EA unfortunately is unavoidable if you want to do future projects you got to go through the Neer process yeah and you know um as far as obstructions are concerned I mean we can both attest to this you know that safety critical project projects are number one um you know that certain airports if if you don't address your obstructions FAA won't fund other projects until you complete that and you know it it is they are it is required every time the city signs on to the grant insurances you you know one of those items is that they're you know going to maintain the safety of your you know protected surfaces your approaches and all that stuff so you know just trying to keep the airport in compliance with all those things anything else for me before I post it down it's spending Sal yeah yeah well you call me any time we'll get you it's I know it's a lot I know it's a lot to digest figure out yeah okay thank you [Music] all okay um manager report so uh we're still cleaning up the grounds uh before winter before the snow hits cleaning up some trees some saplings before they grow into trees uh I've started hauling those uh away um haven't done any mowing recently because the grass has stopped growing there is some more mowing to be done in along the back area uh the lawnmower means of oil change um the one time this week we're going to take it in and have the oil changed and have it looked at to uh assess if it needs anything before winter uh we want to make sure that's ready for snow plowing uh we don't think the freight liner would need to to much it hasn't been used that much no it had 300 miles on it 300 miles the uh yeah the food we going to be careful with that we're going to just look at look at it and see if we I fixed the play on the back before it fell off and let me let me just finish okay uh so yeah so that's what we're going to do this week just make an assessment do the oil change and then we'll get back to you with whatever we think it needs to be able to do the mowing um this winter and um plowing this winter the plowing this winter yes and um what else uh Ray maker final check is going out next week uh they were very anxious but I talked to them um that's going out next week that's their final check Gale Associates check is going out next week um that'll be mailed out next week and um uh uh John had waited until you know he got all the monies in which is what he does he waits till the monies come in and then he and then he okays to pay these things and um uh remake it we're a little late with rain makers but their um their check's going out next week their final check and um that uh that's that's really it so it doesn't matter about the grass no I I'm going to finish up in the back the back planting grass and growing grass at this airport I'm sorry growing grass at this airport where make is supposed to put the airp back into the condition that was minimum yeah they're was when it when it they're coming back correct to to uh look at it again uh John has okayed their final check and I have processed it so that's going out yeah but uh it's not entirely their fault they had a lot of weather that eroded everything and uh yeah I I don't think it's entir default the way it ended up I don't like I don't like all the weeds I would like it to be grass it was nice grass before W and I'd like to see it nice grass again I think that's part of the faa's Mantra was that it had to be as good as it was yeah they they'll be back on the spring for to check on that there's still there's still retainage on the contractor so just because it was the final payment doesn't mean that they've been paid in full there's still ret okay that's what I wanted to be sure about um okay so you're not looking at the dad system at all right yes I you're not looking yes I am oh then do we have counts um I will email those you okay um do we have a list of anybody that is looking for hangers or say no list just no no list okay um what have we spent on the budget so far we have not is itemized at all spreadsheet no there's no spreadsheet or anything on the IM should be watching that closely and I'm watching it that's we all we watch it we all do well you haven't been that's my job I'm trying to my job and John's job what we've spent so far is we've filled the 55 gallon drum to be ready for uh the trucks for winter uh we spent a little bit on maintenance uh not really too much so far the uh 520 5225 tractor it's oil change and I think it's I don't know it's say 17 quarts sounds like a lot okay I don't game 17 okay I might be hydraulic fluid probably and uh filters things like that um ear filters and many qus yeah I have I got to look it up I just I want to say it's like six qus yeah the uh still fat clean too so it's it's you know time I've put on it um what's the other thing CU we do we got to do more maintenance on that I think the loader needs to be to oil grease and all that talk to Dave OT about it see his mechanic could help me because I have no idea what to do with that did he do that before did his mechanic work only thing he worked at was the freight liner he took it to one oh I see okay there's a couple of minor things I think on the freight line that got to be done but it's good shape um I think that one probably should get an inspection sticker too I that would be the easiest one to get we got a check on the one time should have an inspection sticker yeah I should have a report on that for next um the uh next meeting I'll let you know what uh what was found and then uh I have uh that here somewhere the FAA I mean M do wanted us to come up with a wish list of safety stuff um I make copies of one that I put St putting together a few months ago of wish lists to see if they can come up with something to help us but uh we uh feel free to take this and add notes and we can add to us safety reasons safety stuff just Main and we can use I mean this is just stuff that I had noted this people had talked to me about and uh I want to start moving on trying to get some of this stuff done and what we got to do to to to go through it and uh any questions on any of these and scan down through it let me know and uh I think everybody is pretty much familiar with all of this stuff I know this I don't know if he still has fun uh whatam call from M um Owen Owen was talking about this sort of stuff he says he's got some money to spend on on stuff and uh I think the uh is this ranked in order of priority no no it's just R up yeah I I would say I would say yeah definitely identify your priorities on the list and um and then approach him with those things I don't know how much it uh I I want to get everybody's opinion on it if you can does the fire extinguisher annual inspection have a cost yes what is it uh it depends on how many extinguishers you should do and what has to be done they have to be recharged he uh comes in and checks them and if they takes them if they need to be recharged he swaps them out for us how much did cost last time I forget I know you to ask K that K took care of that huh Ken yeah K well I I did it the last couple of years but and I can't remember what he charge I used to have to have trouble getting the bills I don't get bills everybody else they go into the office and I never find out what the final charge is but it was that there's the Ali system that's still I get a call every week their calls afternoon on that um still not working cuz it's not connected anything and Greenwood is not servicing us the the allarm central is being paid but they're not U but there's no connection metal diesel of fuel tank yep yeah I agree with that that's you know that would be the barrel something but yeah that was my idea could be a question yeah and uh there's uh the replacement plow for the the big wow I mean how many times still that been put put back together again quite a few yeah and just see if there's money or something like that get a lightwe one maybe or something that would work better um the outside of the building and painting and the entrance um I don't know I'm entertaining more if you think of something email me text me call me tell me let me do something so we can add more um like I say I I don't know these are just stuff that I've heard from the people I know that uh Isabelle now worked on on the doors a week ago and we got lubricated the doors on the North side got them somewhat lubricated and adjusted I worked on the one the week before down s me uh what's his first name any wood Jerry and uh got it so it works better I got a little more work to do on it but I fin figured out how I'm going to get it done I'm just going to get all do it and uh fix that a little bit better um any questions any thoughts on add any more if you think something yeah well like I say I've been I've been writing down on my book and I finally got sat down today know my word program working the way I thought it should we going to get the money to do all this well this is well this is why Owen was ow wanted to seal this like this some of it could be at 100% it's funed by the state so like I think the plows are pretty not a lot of money but I think it's something that he might buy that because it's obviously I don't know how old that plow is but it was probably well used when we got it and came from the city they gave it to us right and things like that you know oh no kidding they they us oh yeah and uh so it's just you know throw out I mean to the to say that well they're using them right now cuz they've got the lootas I don't know what they did with the old but I mean this is what's going to be lot of a lot of questions and open to any of them but having the you know quick Mount and stuff like that I think they're all pretty much that way we can use the one that's already on the old that's in P sh and uh it's just just got something with a little less years on it than being be um I think that's you know we just got to keep moving it I haven't heard anything for uh oh it's the the fuel system he was watering the the filter who's going to call me and I haven't heard from him I may give him a call back I a little before winter that has to be checked every year um the container there no lackings on the outside of it for still it and I don't know when the when we had to clean up from the fuel leak in the plane I don't know if it all it replaced I know some of it did but I don't know if all of it did and I'm not sure if there's an N requirement for what's in Stoke here I know uh it's the container that I'm looking for and we can add the stuff to it we may need two containers to keep it in there but it's you know I didn't even know it was a Stoke it till I opened it one day and said oh that's good to know but everybody's going to know about it and uh they surprised they open easily but um we have to keep thinking that we have to keep and maintain stuff otherwise we'll be spending more money a lot more money um okay uh oh the other thing oh isab I've got another bill for you and a small one from mag Turf and we got the fuel Bill yes copy of it please y because uh it's a month old we we are paying it already so we got to got to get that out and we got to figure out if we got to make a change anything else motion to close next meeting will be November 6 day after the election who knows what state will be in um okay what time got accurate time 6:46 motion second okay all in favor all okay then [Applause] it's