##VIDEO ID:ta-165OgC4I## we have a [Music] recording something going on at Sterling or's a fair or something Festival Annual Festival they don't want all the people to they have to close the close the airport closed and so the guys want to go fly if they did gra drag run away that kind of they they come up and they'll you know they brought everything up here and the guys who want to fly yeah um everybody look at the minutes from last week yep would you like me to make a motion accept the minutes of last meeting yes that's and second okay we start with the old business and hit the associates perfect go here hopefully all of you have a copy of G's monthly project update um if not we have extra copies here two weeks ago a Aug 14 anyone else that yeah um so I'll just jump right in I'll try to keep it brief I am going to do um a quick presentation on the Alternatives um today I know everybody um had an opportunity to review chapter six at the last meeting so I'll just kind of walk through the Alternatives and then request everyone's vote as we go along but I'll go through Gail's update first so the runway reconstruction project um on page one project one um well I guess page two of four is really where the new items are coming um into play so um main apron has been reconstructed um and accepted a final walk through on August 27th um I know there were some flooding issues um at the airport during some storms earlier this summer so additional erosion control measures were installed to help um that vegetation establish and try to alleviate um any further flooding um I guess if there are any questions I'm going to try to keep it quick but just stop me at any point um one outstanding item that is included as part of the runway reconstruction project is the airport's industrial storm water pollution prevention plan so that's required um for any industrial facility effectively um to let EPA know how the airport is managing storm water that is something that is on um our radar to complete for the airport we've actually pull together um good portion of the draft report I figured rather than bog everybody down another report today we would hold off until a future meeting try to get through a little bit more of this master plan process and then dive into that um at a later time but just wanted it to be on everyone's radar um for now that that industrial storm water pollution prevention plan will be coming um any questions on the runway project before I move on where is that mention down hand it's on page page two of two and it's the first blue bullet there okay y yep so it's right there um any questions I'll set Jim on the runway project y okay um so moving on to the master plan um really the the new items are on page three or four so um chapters 1 through five are currently um in draft format they're on the airport's website now thank you so much to Isabelle for getting those up there so the public can view those at any point um and there's you know an email address for comments and whatnot so if anyone would wish to comment um on the first five chapters of the master plan um today like I said we'll be getting into the development and evaluation of Alternatives chapter which is where we basically take um all the information we've learned about the airport the existing conditions um the demand for certain facilities um any sort of deficiencies around the airport and we say okay what projects do we need um to implement ment in order to correct some of these things or to meet the demand and that's chapter six that you all should have received at the last commission meeting and reviewed um so I'll go over that I know the commission has been waiting for a response on the hazard beacons um we filed through O's airspace review system and I think Robert I know you were included on that email to Tracy thank you you're welcome I did respond back to you I saw that yes thank you um and I did get a letter actually today from Tracy um with respect to those beacons um so there was some language in there that said that they were um deemed hazards to air navigation and there were some mitigation measures that were suggested but I'm waiting for a little bit of clarity um from Tracy mcginness who um submitted that letter just uh really really want wanting a little bit more of a direct answer on should the airport just plan to remove these things is that the best course of action and is that appropriate at this time so they're deing them at right now is Hazard yes because they are they um protrude above the airports um protected surfaces and they're not not no longer light there's that too right right so so again the the mitigation measures the tree line out there is viewed as an airport protected Sur service that's protrude where the beacons are protruding through the tree line is that what you're saying so the so surrounding the whole airport there are various um protected surfaces going out um you have the approach surfaces I wish I had a diagram in front of me but um you have the approach surfaces coming off of the ends of the runway and then basically I'll just walk over here and P um so you have the approach surfaces that come off of the end of the runway here oops I just bumped into this sorry about that um and then surrounding from up and out from the approach surfaces you have a transitional surface that you know comes kind of along the sides and then it's about a 4 mile radius around the entire airport mtam I way off base there it's about 4 miles surrounding the airport there are higher levels of protected airspace surrounding the airport and the beacons are located you know various locations that are identifying um I believe they're identifying terrain at this time but FAA has said that some in some cases terrain um beacons are no longer necessary so what the answer we've been trying to get as Robert knows from the FAA for quite some time is these beacons that are within that protected surface that were once basically lighting something that was or is um you know considered to be protruding that surface does the airport need to continue to maintain those beacons or are the beacons themselves hazards and need to now come down that's the question that's still outstanding that we've been waiting on an answer for so hopefully that's hopefully that's somewhat helpful I I know it's sometimes more questions and answers with these things well I have a feeling is once they deem them Hazard we take take them down and then they're going to turn around oh we need them back that's what's going hey are those beacons all lined up in a straight line no no no because top of the hills are varing a little bit Yeah high points get they're basically parallel to the downwind right correct right but they're not forming a straight geometric they're not used for navigation no just for illumination of the uh illumination of The High Ground The High Ground they'll tell you just before you hit and it has to be within it's uh they have a formula that they use like off the sides it's a like a 7° angle and off the approach ends it's less uh for a lot of them and I'm not sure what the what the figure is basically use 2,000 ft in the downwind on these in this Runway I do anyway and then right but you're you're probably closer to 800 ft when you're going over the beacons in the hill cuz that's ft above the air I'm talking about atmospheric leing 2,000 ft I don't know what they're right how how far below they are when you're from the downwind to 2000 it varies because they're not all the same height it uh and they're not in the approaches to be clear they're in the the outer surfaces that are still protected but they're not a not a navigation device they're so a safety a warning correct some thank you for your hard work and let's hope in another two years we'll get a final answer I will keep following up with Tracy um and and get you know get an answer and if I can't get an answer from her I will reach out to the airport District's office with her letter and you know effectively ask them what is the preference here what does the airport need to do um so that's because then that would be if they need to be removed that needs to be added to the master plan to get those removed with the m that is correct yeah we would they don't necessarily need to be part of the master plan but they're currently on your Airport layout plan okay I'm guessing on their Old Airport layout plan so yes they if they need to be removed they're on there they would be whether or not they're eligible for AIP funding to be removed that's a different story but yes they're already on your your existing Airport thank you very much for the clarification yep um so let's see I guess um I can get into the Alternatives presentation if everyone would be open to that I watch is that this the second P of this yes yeah the bigger section so um I was fortunate enough to have a conversation with um Jim last week and he provided me with a little bit more um a little bit of detail about a couple changes that um the commission wanted to see as part of the master plan so you will notice that those changes are reflected and highlighted throughout the document um on each of the spreadsheets as we get there so then you see a little highlighted area that's a change I think there were two brief changes we um minor changes we changed the um total area of the non-aviation use area Jim because I know that there was um one section that it was suggested should remain for Aviation use so we just reduced the area size a little bit and you'll see that as well um and then the other change was uh we updated the location um for one of the options for the snow removal equipment building so you'll see that um you'll see that come up as well see here so what we'll go over today um the purpose and objectives of the Alternatives analysis I think everyone has a pretty good sense but just to give a little bit of review on that we'll go over um project permitting requirements just briefly and then different funding sources that are available to the airport because I know that's very important we're talking about Cal improvements um then I'll go over the Alternatives and the impacts associated with those Alternatives um at that time you'll will kind of go project by project you know starting with the apron um and then moving into the options for your hangers Etc and at the end of each section um I'm hoping to ask for the commission to vote for a recommended alternative um to ultimately move forward with putting on the Airport layout plan um and then I will go over some obstructions um to the runway 1836 approaches and then the next steps for the project so the purpose and objectives of the Alternatives analysis effectively like I was saying before it takes the information that we collected in the first five chapters of the master plan and provides options for um ways that the airport can address those needs um very important to note that just because the commission um recommends a particular project and uh votes to put it on the Airport layout plan it doesn't mean that you're committing the city to funding the project it doesn't mean that you're committing FAA or the state to funding it it's effectively your uh wish list of over the next 20 years what is it that you would like to reasonably see happen at the airport um so perming and funding just to go over requirements um and this is um in the introduction to the chapter as well that everyone received that you'll see it um on page one and two um permitting and funding is outlined there but there are uh basically three levels of Permitting review that any project you undertake at the airport will have to go through and that's um starting big picture um the National Environmental Policy Act review and you'll hear the term environmental assessment um typically there are different levels of National Review that can that will have to take place you either have a project that's considered um excluded from meeting review you have projects that require um an environmental assessment that basically reviews the impacts Associated um um with any development on the airport and then you'd have an environmental impact statement um and that would be basically the tiers of the review um then you have your state U Massachusetts Environmental Policy Act review um there are a couple different requirements there and then of course you'd have any sort of local order of conditions um for your Conservation Commission requirements as far as funding is concerned everybody knows know um and just heard me talk about the airport Improvement program uh typical funding um contributions FAA usually uh contributes 90% the state contributing 5% and local share being 5% um with the new reauthorization act for fiscal year 2025 and 2026 FAA has actually increased the contribution amount to 95% for projects in those two years which is great news um Mass doot has indicated that they may be contributing 2 and a half% on those projects which would then require a 2 and 1 half% local share but it's still to be determined they're still ironing out the details so um you know things could change but um it it could be a pretty significant savings uh to the city for any projects done in fiscal year 2025 and 2026 so it's only going to be two years on the fiscal year that's correct y the the 95% um FAA funding and then it would go um presumably go back to the the 90% um funding from the Fed so you know there are um two different categories of funding under that AIP program you have the airport's entitlement money which is the funding $150,000 a year that the airport automatically basically gets for any project that is you know considered to be eligible under the faa's program um and then there's also discretionary funding that can be available for larger Capital Improvements for example um a large Runway reconstruction that would far exceed the $150,000 a year there are um a lot of limitations there is a national ranking system for uh that discretionary funding where effectively something that is a critical Safety project would be given a higher ranking like a tree removal project or a Runway reconstruction project and then moving down from there taxiways and and aprons falling into lower categories so when you're talking about a national pool of money that's available to all airports that are under the national system um that are all putting in for these projects the higher ranking projects are the ones that are going to get funded through the that discretionary program like your runways like your tree clearing projects and other safety related projects there are also limitations on Revenue generating projects so Revenue generating projects like um say a fuel system for example um hanger buildings you can use your entitlement funding towards those projects but you have to number one show that the airport has met all of their safety needs so you have to complete all of your safety related projects first before it will be eligible and then um once you have undertaken a revenue generating project you actually cannot take any discretionary funding for the next three fiscal years so it's it's pretty it's pretty limiting as far as that's concerned um so that's just the background on the funding uh Massachusetts airport safety and maintenance program is typically funded at 80% by the state and 20% local so um those are you know a lot of times you know there are restrictions with the AIP funding like you're not allowed to you know use AIT funding for maintenance projects it's for Capital Improvements right so you can't use it for maintenance but fortunately in Massachusetts there is a state program that can often times come in to assist with you know tree clearing projects fencing projects I mean the apron that just you know that just was redone out here so it's it's less restrictive and can assist with those maintenance maintenance equipment things like that fall into that category so now that I'm done with that tangent any questions about funding is that all pretty clear where do we stand with safety in respect to well you said we have to meet all safety requirements are we not meeting safety requ requirements now so you would have to make sure that and we'll get into this a little bit later on you have to make sure that things like if there are any trees in your approaches those need to come down before you before you'd be eligible for those about Wildlife studies that considered a safety yeah so that will that will all be completed yeah and then any critical pavement projects um so we are so we are already following that guideline already there um I'll get into there are it seems there are some trees that we are working on on that to making sure that everything in this facility in this airport is perfectly in it's safe to some degree yes for the most part right yeah and and that's part of this master plan process as well as identifying the deficiencies is part of you know making sure that the sa all the safety aspects are you know up to standards and whatnot so yes so even doing this master plan yes it is um addressing SA needs thank you yeah you're welcome so just I guess to jump right into the Alternatives um the first set of Alternatives were the apron Alternatives and that's going to be starting um on page 6-4 you'll see the um comparison table and I know that um it was said at a previous meeting it would be really super helpful um to actually see the facilities imposed over the existing condition now so that's what I've tried to do here um some of the lines are a little bit faint because I brought them in um from Google Earth but you do have um the backup plans with it as well so so this the the the planning gr I take it um figure 6- uh 1-1 mhm that is what we have right now this is a modification it's a modification yep so you'll notice um and foot this shows it a yeah it's the it's a similar footprint but um you can see here where the tie down spaces they right the tie down spaces here on under the new um and then the pavement area has increased slightly off of the edge here okay so that brings you into compliance with all the turning radius um um that's needed on the taxi Lane um for your aircraft going through there it's the appropriate spacing um according to current standards for those tie downs so that's um your apron alternative number one I want you to be able to completely turn a small airplane around and Mi so what so you're it's a wing tip clearance so a an aircraft would have to be able to come in here and turn without the wing clipping this aircraft here or this here okay and the same around the side here and they can do that now with the with the way the way this facing is currently it's just a little bit off so whether they can or can't right now if you use FAA funds to go out there and reconstruct that apron they're going to make you comply with the desire standards to that is correct so whether they're capable of doing it today maybe they are maybe they aren't I don't know but that new that Jackie showing there that's the design stand okay and then we had option two as well um so this is you'll see um the limits of the pavement are here oh c we lose a lot of tie downs lose the tie downs here and you'd increase if the commission decided in a later alternative that you wanted to develop this area for handers it would open up this area for something like that and so that really the purpose of this alternative is to open up that space a little bit more where you know here you just don't have quite as much room and we'll just make sure when we get to that alternative whichever apron you know um option you're deciding on is you know compatible basically with um any sort of hanger option that you choose you're welcome so I guess I would entertain any questions about the Alternatives um before you know in discussion before asking for a vote from the commission on which hanger alternative is um is the preferred alternative or the recommended alternative I would like just to finish all the ideas that you have here before we vote on each individual one it kind of indivually connected okay I think especially when you if we go to a smaller tie down and go with a bigger hanger and the smaller tie down has the smaller cost right but it also has the bigger cost for the hanger yeah the hanger will be more between the hanger and the extra what's the purpose of this hanger to hold more planes additional revenue for the airp how many T hangers we talking how many T hangers are we talking about the tie down space the oh so then you're looking to get into the next op right so okay that's why we got to go through okay so hanger Alternatives yep that's on page 65 [Music] mhm so we have um alternative alternative one and I apologize if this is a little bit faint but effectively you're tripling the space um that's currently designated to oops that's currently designated to the tea hangers as they are so that's an extension of the existing tea hangers the newer tea hangers out there is all that is adding additional T Hanger space right but but it's three times the size that's right yes Tri and just just to be clear um you know the commission is more than welcome to select more than one alternative under each specific category provided that those are not mutually exclusive so when you get into you know hanger alternative 2 and then hanger alter basically hanger alternative 2 goes with the larger apron option and hanger alternative three would have you can see that you know as it is today would cut it off that gives you more space for hangers but less space what Dave had recommended right so how many planes can go in that it really it really depends it depends on the size of the hangers you're building and and the thing what you propos right there yep what's how many planes you go in there we don't know the answer to that what size building are you talking about how many that area that you have so so you you're looking at I mean just just I guess to do a a quick calculation you'd have to make sure that you have enough room for um your taxi Lanes um to get in and out of there and what have you but if you're looking at 23,000 Square ft for a 6 unit you know nested tea hanger building um alternative to is 79,000 square ft so that that total area there so alternative two was the extension three times larger than the one we have now so how many planes we have in the first SE hanger six so it would be 18 planes 23 no no 23,000 Square ft per 6 unit building so okay okay got it yeah so how many 69,000 and again it depends on the specific layout that that you'd be that you'd be looking to implement but you know know as far as um the master plan what you know we typically see is really designating the area and then once you get into the design if you were to get into the design of that area then you really determine you know what the right size would be what your needs are in the area um but this basically gives you the opportunity to you know if you had a oops a developer come in and say that they wanted to build you know hanger buildings you'd have an area that was set aside for that great would that also include uh a new office and everything in that option option just a hanger and more mhm okay and then alternative two was just a bigger extension on the original hangers no that's option option one option one option one is basically expand the existing area for Te hangers that you have okay option two is the smaller area basically allowing you to keep the apron as it sits you know today with the corrections the fa would require to modify and then option three here is is basically the option where you reduce the size of the apron and you then would allow that space to be you know developed into hands sry what's option four um there's not an option four in this alternative at least not the one that we've not one that we've developed for tonight so moving on I guess to the administration building and Sr building options again just you know mentioning again that you are welcome to choose more than one option if you would like to see um a snow removal equipment buil in one location and um you know utilizing a certain option for the administrated facility you can kind of you have this uh the SRE building in conjunction of uh plan two and three how that would affect it so if you look the snow removal equipment building option one here which is the alternative that changed um you can see that in either you know it's it's oops sorry in line with your fence your fence so you'd have access into this parking lot and then a building here and then this would be you know basically some P some pavement to drive you may you may lose a tie down space here if you go with that option that's but that's leaving with having all the tie downs if we if we want to away with the when they modify the larger building would the SR building still be there if you went with the larger option I mean we can certainly shift the building you know over slightly if the commission elects to go with a larger area for hangers we will make sure that everything you know fits how should and fits together so that's that's not a problem at all um and then so here's option two and this is over um by the leasehold apron there just right off of that [Music] pavement the other end yeah and then um option three is basically to convert this building into an Sr and administrative space together so it would be a new building I like that idea and then this would be um conversion of the uh leas hold hanger to would that be a new new build would that be a new build tear down a new build um the option was for renovation um is what is what we had discussed before they do that they um um it as far as you know unfortunately this study um really did not include an assessment of that facility particularly that was an auction that was brought up far far after we scoped the project um so that would have to be you know additional you know additional review of that facility and someone coming in and really letting you know what could be renovated and what the cost would be associated with that as well can that be done but never mind if they could give an assessment then that would if they if we could get an assessment of that building then it would give us more idea of what is that building yeah you know whether or not you can actually rent off and need do a new facility ination so is that something that is an option is what an option requires add to do an to do an assessment would be an option that the additional funding from the airport commission to do that though do that assessment whether I think whether or not it would be AIP funded that's a whole different story I all right just food for thought that's all yeah absolutely and just also you know bringing to you know everyone's attention there is a lease on that space right now my records show that the lease does not expire until 2039 if I am mistaken on that from G yes since that that's again if if someone has better information than I do but that's um what was documented in the previous master plan I did not know that so that's another that's that's another just I guess item to consider um so just moving on the fence alternative really the options for your fence um are you know there's the full perimeter fencing or I should have mentioned this at the beginning there's always an option for a no build so if that's what the commission elects to do there's an option for a no build um Jim you'll notice after we talked I did um have our Engineers move this fence line um down slightly from the previous version that everyone saw to maximize this area here uh for any sort of expansion development Etc that might go on so that was that was some good input that I got from Jim um so that's I mean it's really not overly complicated the um you know perimeter fencing this would connect with your um existing existing fence on both ends and you'd be fully enclosed at that point and what's the purpose of offense um Wildlife exclusion security it's really a safety a Safety project and that's $600,000 correct if you did the whole thing at once yeah yeah 6000t and that's a an 8 foot fence 10 foot fence it depends um you'll be undertaking the wildlife Hazard assess and Wildlife exclusion fencing I believe the recommendation can be is it 8 or 10t it's 10 with bar wire y so if it is deemed as a result of the wildlife hazard assessment that you know wildife exclusion fencing is necessary they will make a recommendation in their report as to the height of that fencing but yeah so hopefully that's helpful thank you and then the last set of alternatives are the well the land use alternative is and I know the line is a little bit p and the sun's kind of glaring here but you can see we've outlined the area here and this is basically the property boundary of the airport you know coming down here and we I Andrew was very helpful and um looked at um some of the you know topographical maps and where um this area really starts to um increase in slope and so we just you know the previous version was you know had encompassed more like this entire area so we just backed this out so that the and I don't want to say flat because we know it's not flat out there but um the lower grade area we have now made sure was included still as basically Aviation use and instead of the non a tical U switches this year and that would give the airport the ability to pursue Revenue generation projects such as solar and you know things things of that nature non non-aviation because it's an area that the airport is deeming that they do not need for Aviation use um and what is the uh the total of that area how many acres that total area 87 87 Aces yeah8 87.1 Acres yeah how much of it is uh Wetlands is that that bow area so it's so you'd really be we're using um the wetlands are almost to the east that stuff is pretty elevated yeah it's delineated on that diagram So based on based on public resources that that are available to us and it would be you know certainly recommend recommended that you know any developer that would go out there would need to delineate for wetlands and whatnot but based on the information we know it looks like they're um approximately 6.9 Acres of wetland in that area so and again that's that's known that's known Wetlands with publicly available resources you're welcome and then the last couple options are the Precision of approach path indicators and I just included um the runway [Music] 18 um end papies as alternative one and the runway 36 and papies as alternative and what's the difference between these two so one is on one run one is on your one Runway end and one is on the other so you could again or one and what is this is this a unit that's that's on the ground or something yeah it's a nav Precision approach path indicator tells you it's too high too low coming in so then that that would hurt our our Runway light system yeah uh sometimes it's a four [Applause] box okay great but again that would hurt our area for on grass yeah but I'm looking where it is that's a quarter of the way down it definitely short and available Landing distance they got distance on grass R correct and that cannot be put back further no that's all prescribed based on the end of the runway um it's shut at a particular angle corre correct that determines does it have to be there do we have to have it you do not safety it's a it's a nice feature for Pilots coming in and out of the airport it's an additional nav works good at night it does work very well at night um I don't know if it has must have something to do too the approach or your [Music] obstruction uh level like right now we're 800t and might be a bit J what are the colors of the lights that are typically found on a papy white and red and if you can see how many lights two so right if there's a if there's a two light system you want the pilot wants to see one white and one red and if it's a four light system you want to see two white and two red to know that you're on the correct it's all it's all R you're too low you're too low you got to hit something yeah and if it's oh White you're going to miss whatever happened to having skill there's enough as of you that anytime you give an aid like that just put it in your pocket make use of it so back on the uh yeah the the level ground out here there was nothing there I don't know how far back into the woods the area that you had for the the non- aeronautical use non aeronautical use I'm wondering how uh because oops I was thinking that the this line here might be able back up a [Music] little the east side of the come in here but again it's alling on that's you move line missing that line because it's reasonably level ground y we could put Jim how about putting them papies on the east side of the runway what do you think what is what's the comment there I don't know if there's wrong I don't think you have for that can we how far off the center line must they be uh order to the South you need to go cut down some trees and you'd have room out wow look so let me let's just pause for one quick second when I get and wrapped around the axle on like where exactly the papies go cuz if you were to get papies or if you decided you wanted to pursue papies you would take a look at what the design criteria are those work with the fa to determine if they could go on the infield automatically must be on the left side of no that's why I'm saying we shouldn't get wrapped around that axle because I don't know whether or not you could fit those on the inside or if they would need to be on the outside that would be something that we would explore if we undertook a py project this master plan does not dive into that level of detail you need to coordinate with FAA flight procedures and a whole host of other lines of FAA business so this is just a proposed this is just a hey the airport would like papies let's put it on our Airport layout plan to have papies then when you go and pursue funding for it now you get into the details of where do we actually construct these where can we construct them so on and so forth yeah and and Gail Gail doesn't even do the design of those it actually has to go through FAA FAA does the actual design event so that's not even something that you know we can or allowed to do in house it's really all on the FAA as far as where those go thank you very much for the clarification and I don't think I've ever seen a py that wasn't on the left hand side as you're approaching um on the side yeah but and I think on is too all right well that's something to explore so I think uh yeah I don't know where again thank you for the but it's uh no my thing was land that can be reasonably out in here that's very there's a lot of before the I mean the good news same thing with the papies if you designate that area for non- aeronautical use at some point you go out and Survey it you know what I'm saying so like right now that's not surveyed so yeah at some point you can move that line you can move the line further back on where you want to lease that land right I mean I'm happy Jim to I think we got to get more information you want some elevation data out there some too survey you know what I'm saying that's that's just broad brush like hey we could get some live long enough to all right so what do you need from us tonight do we get a vote on on what yeah the the preferred the preferred Alternatives so I can go back to um you know I can go just start I guess with the apron Alternatives and get everyone's um you know preference and vote and you know if there are additional questions I can take them um you know so again the I think it's important though the piece that we eliminated it want to keep it airport was the field we wanted to keep the the field over across the road on the other side right you don't have to designate anything that's airport property currently is already assumed for aeronautical use so you just need to designate anything that's non Aviation that the airport would like to pursue something else to generate Revenue because that land you know all that land up there is it really usable for Aviation use or could it be be you know viable for some other purpose that would be a benefit to the airport corre but the why we took that one off the plan and want to keep at Aviation with the idea that the fence can be moved when we put the gate we can do something with uh Kevin's building then we would negate I this building and give ourselves access and put the fence out around that yeah you could and have another another access you're talking future drones VL who knows what other stuff out there that may come online so it's a good I think it's perfectly finally leave that as is okay you okay that's CU I was the original yeah we saw the thinking behind the apron is just it provides more parking for all the planes that are not here now right so so the existing the alternative one is effectively you know trying to maintain essentially what you have while making sure you're meeting those separation standards and whatnot so basically option one is keep what keep what you have minus you know a couple of the tie downs you know for the spacing issues yep and then somebody somebody has determined that our current arrangement of apron parking is in some ways ins even though nobody's been getting wing tip the wing tip but there needs to be more space than there is currently available is that right yep so we review um all of the facilities and again a birds I VI it need to be enlarged slightly just a little bit yep just a little bit so that's option one and that you know again making sure that we're keeping in line with the forecast and what we think you know on the busiest day of the year thinking about this option 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 are is that going to be enough are seven tie downs on the busiest day of the year going to be enough for the airport for the next 20 years that's the question and alternative two this is alternative two so alternative one is effectively you know you're keeping trying to maintain what you have which is this is 16 tie downs this is seven so option one is 16 tie downs option two is seven tie downs I kind of like option one we keep as many tie downs as we can for 20 years why would we vote for seven tie downs why would anyone vote for that well because it goes you have hang demand yes okay so the question becomes look back at your forecast take a look at what the demand is if you have hanger demand going to drive a lot more revenue from hangers do people want their aircraft out on a apron or do they want them in hangers I think we want both I think you want an apron that's great and uh voluminous and right but let me ask you this so is apron alternative one keeping those same 16 tie downs just say that you know well you know 16 tied on maximizing that space when you get into your hanger your hanger alternatives you're tripling the space that you have is do you need more space basically than that plus that for hangers this plus this what is what is the size difference that was my question before between alternative 2 and alternative one one was like 79,000 sare ft and the other was 114,000 which is which alternative this is 79,000 sare ft this is the so you know my perspective is I would love to see a bigger hanger here because people would like it because it's to the to the closer to the fuel it's closer to uh the entrance to the runway everything else versus option one which is tripling the size of the t- hangers we already have and everybody trying to drive all the way down there get their plane and then drive all the way up back you're in favor of of a reduced pavement for tie downs and increasing the square footage availability for hangers right that would be and then and then you can Market that for whatever size hanger someone wants to come in and build whether it be corporate hangers or additional ke hangers I mean that's going to be you know demand deriven and whoever's at the capital to fund CU that that would be more impressive because people be driving down here and seeing a nice new building and more planes or I should say or even less planes because they can't see the planes that are in there versus having a hanger at the other end of the runway where it's not really put it looked at you can't see at it so you have a security problem already down there where this is in the general facility I mean the general area and more people can look at I think I disagree completely if you put in a giant hanger like that you're not going to be able to see the lovely airport when you drive into the place it's much nicer to have the hangers down at the far end where they don't obstruct your you and uh you're not you're here you're compromising the ability to park on the apron if you happen to be itinerant and so I have a I have the reverse or opposite opinion about that I'd go with that smaller it's also less money it's going to be easier to put up that small hanger to the South that gives you what SE seven additional tea hangers 12 this is 12 yeah yeah y be a total of 18 yeah but I think that there and there basically are in an area that's already got of rain you know if you go to some airports it's so built up you can't even tell that you're at an airport it looks more like a an industrial development for Christ sake and maybe somewhere in the middle there's the runway in uhb can there worse examples than that full hanger oh the full hang well yeah no that see what I'm what I was that's why I was talking about this piece here because if you put a gate here closing so that we have packing here on this area we've got all this area out here that we can develop so then to that point you would never see the entirety of the airport because Joe public can't just access a gate there to get into the airport prop right that's why I'm using some of this alternative over here to be able to do other things where they might look and see the airport if we had a a facility here people could come in here and they would see I guess my my recommendation just listening to both sides of the coin if you don't mind Jackie would be to go I mean that the hang it down the alternative whatever that alternative one alternative one makes sense for someone that wants to come in and wants to develop that to continue to add on to those hangers if they so choose it's a it's an aeronautical use it's adjacent to existing hangers I think that makes sense I would on the other Alternatives with the tie downs I would go on your Airport layout plan I would show that there I agree because that's the bigger picture that's a that's a much larger apron when it comes time to construct the apron you can always take a look at where you're sitting economically speaking what you have for funding and you can always tell the FAA we don't wish to construct this full hanger we actually want to reduce the size of it I think it's easier to reduce it with the FAA than it is to go back and say we'd actually like to add back on even though wees more sense so you're still leaving the the number of tie downs that may be necessary today the 16 tie downs how many planes are out there right now whatever it is you you have you have availability for transi aircraft to come in using the full apron and you still have the ability to build additional hangers in that grass area right if somebody comes up and they're like hey I've got the money I want to build six box hangers out here you can let them go ahead and do that yeah if you so choose because then you can it's just a matter of fencing and gate and no you're already fenced in where that green they can put it there there's uh part of the problem with that was elevation between the we still talking the green area this green area here the distance from here to here has is a slope yeah you can and it's it's precluded them from putting that hanger up here last time I believe because it was C was probably a factor and all that you gotay for it so right the same problem you do it down if you end a hang you're already 5 ft off higher build up that grave here and you might a problem with your C line to high peak yeah so that that proba be fixed to just one area to go out but the nice thing about that is we got fil we have fil have what Phil fil yeah but the we're just voting on Alternatives so as far as aprons go my recommendation based on like I said would be to go with option one CU you can always back off of the the fullblown option okay I agree does everybody agree so we make a motion to detail hanger or apron alternative number one what are we doing precisely please so motion to recommend um apron alternative one and what does that Encompass it eliminat two spots each so you so how many planes do we have right now Jim any spaces right now how many right now we have right how we have two more than one okay so we cut we cut it by two we don't we don't increase the size of the space we're just modifying the spacing is that correct correct corre put a little bit more I'm for that that's fine more distance between cu the so you want to do a vote favor that five so that goes and then we have your hanger alternative so I think we know what the options are here hanger alternative one which is increase the spacing for your existing T hangers alternative two is the one that would go along with the size um yep and then alternative three we've kind of eliminated now because we've decided for a larger apron all right so I guess we're going to go make a motion for alternative one one I'd go one and two you why you can go for both you can go for both y there you go let's go for both and both one and two gives you all the options to to revisit that okay so we make a motion for hanger alternative one and alternative two y alternative two now the hanger is it a T Hanger or is it just a straight hanger got the ACC it's just designated for for future hanger development so it can be a box hanger be a tea hanger whatever there is a market for you're just designating an area okay yeah and that's kind of why we will do it this way sometimes I mean for this alternative I think it makes sense because you have the tea hanger there you're expanding on what you have that makes sense but here you know do we want to limit ourselves what we're saying we're going to do we can just designate the area put a hatch on your Airport layout plan and just designate future hanger develop future y to put it into perspective if I'm a developer and I Comm in I'd be coming before the Air Force commission for this body to say I'm interested in building you know two 5,000 ft box HS you as a commission can say let's look at our Airport layout plan yep we're authorizing this but we want these to be constructed down this end of the airport because we're reserving the other end maybe T hangers or something else all right so make a motion to accept hanger One and hanger plan two all in favor I all right perfect Z okay so getting into administration building s removal equipment building so we had your four options here um number one is a snow removal equipment building um off of the main you know tie down apron that we've been talking about here that would also connect in with your existing parking lot and fence line and whatnot um number two would be a snow removal equipment building off of your lease apron Kevin's um right Kevin's all right and the third option is redoing this building redo this building and the fourth option is to renovate that building but again both options four two and four you have to remember that there is a lease there so go for there what what is the the redoing this building to make it the S Building is option three or is that option one option three is yeah and this this was it's worded as an administrative and Sr building here I would like to see that anybody's anybody's thoughts on the other options building near hang of five okay we do the uh the free scaning Sr building it's a new construction it doesn't entail dealing with any the existing structures What alternative is that please one one Yep this where does it go right there yep right basically right across from where right across from where we are i' prefer that the simpler the better it's cheaper to.5 that's why I think alternative one on the hanger is also the simpler the better one step at a time you know chist to so my my out there going plowing snow they walk through go right right into the building hav't it anywhere else you tread if you go deep snow Tre way to get up that's true you can drive that drive location right right the city comes down and plows Road right there we'd be plowing snow up in front of it so we got a snow bank we have to go through but so that's not tring right yeah 100 ft so we like to make a motion on the SRE building for alternative one for a vote any discussion I would like it larger but that's okay to it so much right and and keep in mind too just because the alternative is shown as a certain size here if there's additional justification for for something that's you know a different size it can be explored more at the time of the project we're just basically saying yes FAA we could we Justified an Sr building S Equipment building and this is where we'd approximately like it to go okay so all in favor y all right perfect and then getting into the fencing so the fencing alternative is really um you'd be voting to adopt alternative one and put full perimeter fencing on the Airport layout plan or a no action I would strongly recommend that you put it on your Airport layout plan we will be going into the wildlife hazard assessment and if it is deemed to be necessary um you know you just want to show that it's Justified it doesn't commit you to funding it it doesn't commit you to actually you know constructing it but if you we in in a perect world never install it or you may install it in portions I mean you can do that too all right like to make a motion fencing alternative number one the second only question I got is po yeah Po's got agre correct all right so how how do we keep that agreement that we have with him defense agreement so you just have to have some sort of access so that will be covered for him we can put that in yes that poy has access to a gate whether it's a swing gate motorized I have no idea that comes when we do the yes so can we just make sure that gets written in there if we do off is there some sort of legal document or something that that guy has I believe there is because I mean in other words what we' want to do is like put a little footnote in the master plan and like have that as an appendix so there's some reference to that side of that we'll find it it's he he is the original person who made this this airport okay so needless to say if he didn't do what he did we w't be here today but here years from now if you're no longer in the commission or you move and you move and and we're not here and someone doesn't know that information at least if it's in the master plan there's a footnote someone say what the hell is this we'll find that Pap yeah if you find it and then we can just put it include it as an appendix to master plan yep who's going to do that just so I can take note of this we'll find it first I have to call Tom or you want to call Tom all right John take oh that's what I was going to say it uh gives us a uh secondary second secondary backup plan if we need it especially when you have things like Asos and and uh things like like that fire trucks could go that would be the only problem is you come down the road come to turn if you want to get to to his taxi weight it's actually his property yeah so all right we'll find that's why I say we need some more F the fencing uh elevations we need a lot more to you went straight down for that road you try to cut cross there that's all a vertical right there all right so can we get a a vot second on this on the fening yes with the with the amendment y all right all in favor I land use Alternatives really again the option is to either designate the area indicated here for n Aviation use or to you know vote not to designate the vote we don't designate it is a non-aviation use that's the one over across the way that's y leave the damn thing alone let it generate you know oxygen and absorb some carbon dioxide and we may have to cut the Tre keep the population down we may have to cut the trees well it's fine whatever we going to do ground cover will generate the car I can agree with with David on that you want to leave that that's non-aviation use well that is you just said two different things it has to be Aviation used first not to do you just want you want to go with the no option alternative on you don't want to designated anything you want to leave it as it is leave it as it is okay okay all right so we make a motion to this isn't Bost motion to no to no action notion all right any second on that y all right all in favor I done okay so we will not add this to the AL that's perfect and the last two um Alternatives and again you can adopt one both or Niger um alternative one is for the papy on the 18 ends to get you that navigational equipment there papy alternative 2 on the 36 end I make a motion we for both one and two and that'll give us the option to see what anything and everything we need to do Future Good call right I get a second on that sure all right all in favor I perfect okay let's see so oh I thought we were done sorry um I just wanted to bring to everyone's attention I know when we first got into the master plan process um we had very little obstruction information off of your approaches well we were able to obtain some obstruction information locations from FAA flight procedures I will say um you know add a little caveat here that um this information is not not verified um so I I would just say you know just keep that in mind as I'm as I'm bringing up this plan because it does show um you'll see the red areas are indicating uh known obstructions that we've already talked about and you'll see little yellow circles with uh Pink plus sign in the middle and those indicate points where FAA flight procedures um has obstru basically within their database system can you point them out because I cannot see color which end is that this is 18 okay and actually I can give everyone a plan as well so those are things that we need to remove possibly we need to verify and confirm them as Jackie was saying they're not they come from FAA but they they haven't there's no flight check that we're aware of that has actually confirmed in fact when did we when did they cap those top those trees that was before I came on that was quite a l Jackie what's yellow so the yellow circles and you'll see they're you know kind of dotted partically here indicate the tallest point in a grid where FAA flight procedures is showing a penetration to the approach surface it doesn't necessarily indicate one point or one tree there could be a very tall object in that area that is above everything else penetrating and then there could be other items that are lower than that that are also penetrating that approach surface but they're just not the tallest point so it's the tallest point in a grid so you can see according to their database um there are many areas with obstructions and this is the runway 1 18 and and then this is the 36 end you know dotting all out here they're all listed as vegetation and terrain so some of them may be um terrain penetration with trees um on them so again I'll just say the data is it it may be outdated um this is just the best information that they have in their system where they obtain this information from is this airport land no not all of it no so you can see um so if it's not airport land how do we if somebody's got a tree and a lot of these are trees uh how do we fix it so you would you would have to um um negotiate with the property owner to obtain um an airspace easement to access and remove the trees um so again I would say let's wait until we have a little bit better results and better data the airport is um undertaking that 18b survey as part of the runway project that will provide us with Point data of actual trees and where they are located um that survey doesn't include you know analysis of that of those penetrations but if the if the commission does move forward with any of the future projects an environmental assessment we can roll any sort of obstruction study and Analysis into another project so that you save you know basically administrative costs and whatnot um associated with that the counter law those circles if those are trees that's 65 the they're points they're points so it there 65 points there could be there could be a lot of trees is what you're getting yes correct that's why without any sort of concrete data without someone flying these approaches and actually getting us the actual data is kind of difficult hypothetic but the other thing is is that if any of these land owners really wanted to be a problem M that shut us airport down no it could display your threshold certainly yeah when you say displace the threshold what does that mean means that the point you can land and touch show the airport yeah so there would what and what they what they would do is they'd indicate that by a a bar basically on painted on the runway and it would tell Pilots Noe you can't land until this point effectively or wherever that Steed to be the date on this is 2008 [Music] so that may trigger the topping that they did back then in the tree clearing over there so so again you know this is new information that we've received from flight procedures um all right so we can't even go by any on here it's just hard to speaking about something that there's no backup but but we have you know it's something that we need to bring to the commission's attention it's information we have information that we know it does indicate that there is likely an issue with penetrations to those approach surfaces and it's something you know something that will need to be addressed so um I'm pretty familiar with this every time I come in it's there's a bunch of trees right here and you got have to stay high and then you drop down quick with the r what R is that well it's not in our it's not in our G it's our no but it's not in our our G understand just growth so I guess we can just you know again keep that in mind when we're talking a little bit later on where mat's going to get into the airport's Apple Improvement program and what we've discussed at that CIP meeting uh that recently took place so I guess when we get into that just keep that in mind I just wanted to make sure everyone was aware trees and then which one's that here we wait winter time was frozen yeah the uh and of course we got Richard's using the sand kit that's changing shape and everything in the last 16 years all right what's the next thing we look at so this is um just to let you know know what's going to happen next um I will take the votes go back to the office um incorporate them into chapter 6 um I will pass chapter 6 along to FAA and mot so that they can review and provide comments and feedback um I'll request that as you know those comments as soon as possible from there once we have the Alternatives decided we can move into the final chapter of the master plan which which is the schedule of improvements and that's when we talk about what's going to happen in the next you know 5 years what's going to happen 10 years out and then what's going to happen longterm you know 11 to 20 years down the road um then from there we'll develop the final ultimate Airport layout plan that is where you have your existing conditions plan and will superimpose all of the recommended Alternatives onto um the Airport layout plan for as like a future uh proposed plan submit that to the FAA they will review it um and then they will provide any sort of comments final comments we'll address those um and then we can close the project out and you'll have the final um master plan and the final Airport layout plan and that will be what you know the tool that the airport can use for the next you know um 15 to 20 years as far as um you know planning velopments and whatnot awesome so that's all I have on the master plan any other questions before I move in okay um back to the up project update uh page three or four project three actually I guess it's more on page four for the Wildlife Hazard um site visit so the grant for the project was issued on the 30th of July um and the contract between Gale and the airport or the city that circulated um actually I did this says the contract is awaiting signatures from the city that is no longer true because I got the contract back today so you can disregard that I will um bring to the commission's attention it was recommended by nework ecological that since the grant funding was issued so you know later in the year that the commission wait until the springtime to actually conduct the survey because that's really when the birds and the critters and everything are the most active and you're going to get um probably the most value out of that assessment if come until June okay um so so that was the recommendation by the wildlife biologist um if it is the airport's prerogative to move forward sooner certainly um we can do that but it would be my recommendation to go um by with you know what the what the wildlife biologist is saying and go with her recommendation to wait until the spring if not for our benefit our benefit is middle of time no be running around um so is if there's I mean I don't really need a a vote on that really just general concurrence to go with that recommendation yep that's fine okay okay we can do that okay that is all I have I'll turn it over to Matt to talk about the capital yeah I have some more Master PL um last page this one here the Excel spreadsheet this is the airports Capital Improvement program um so just as a reminder for those of you who may not be familiar with it every single year uh the airport commission meets with the FAA and N to talk about the fiveyear capital Improvement program for the airport uh this year was no different the meeting was held on August 26th Isabelle and Jim were in attendance virtually as was myself and Jackie and in the FAA uh and representatives from Mass do there was a lot of discussion um obviously a kind of a wait and see with the master plan with the master plan projects shake out um typically following the airport master plan is the environmental assessment so before you can move forward with any of these Capital Improvement projects as Jackie was speaking to as part of the master plan you need to go through those that layer of NEPA National Environmental Policy Act review uh some of the projects are are categorically excluded they don't require any more review some of the other projects do require that environmental assessment review so and again keep in mind these numbers that we're showing here at placeholders um because we're still showing in fiscal year 2025 the federal government only picking up 90% massot 5% and a local share of 5% for fiscal year 25 and 26 that's going to be going down to 2 and half% we are just waiting for additional guidance from FAA in order for us to actually update this to uh reflect that so just stand good stand by until we get further guidance on that um so I am showing the environmental assessment in 2025 there was a comment for mbot to include the meepa environmental impact report as part of that um based on the projects that we're going to be exploring as part of the environmental assessment I don't believe that meepa is even being triggered and therefore I don't think that project is even warranted in 2025 that's something we'll take a closer look at uh the obstruction analysis that Jackie was mentioning so the 18b survey that's being conducted as part of the runway project will provide information in there that would allow us to do an analysis take a look at both your approaches and 36 specifically identify where the obstructions are based on that known flight survey and then give you guys a much better picture of where the instructions are on Airport property and off airport property all right um there's a vegetation Management in uh vegetation management plan that's also in here I'm showing that as an 8020 split I am waiting on FAA to get back to me I believe that's an a eligible project so the local share on that would actually go down to 5% so 2 and a half% for fiscal year 2025 uh the vegetation management plan that is necessary to essentially outline all of the airport's protected surfaces as Jackie was mentioning earlier it would show where the vegetation obstructions are it would actually put together a plan for the airport commission to address those vegetative obstructions that plan is necessary so that when you go in front of the local Conservation Commission to do tree clearing within Wetlands you qualify under the uh Li project provision from the Massachusetts Wetland protection act that allows us to get way out into the approaches where there's wetlands and actually do the tree plan out there okay um isn't that kind of double DPP with the environmental impact report so it's an obstruction anal so the environmental assessment does nothing as far as a vegetation management plan is concerned there's no component in the EA to do a vegetation management plan so we're talking over $200,000 to do those three you are talking approximately yeah and those numbers like I said aren't revised those are going to be going down to 25% um I don't like I said I don't think Nea is triggered the EA is most definitely something that the airport out that let's say $2 $20,000 is that going to pay for some of those removal of obstructions the obstruction removal as you'll notice on this is planned in 2028 so the way that we've set this up is we assume that there are obstructions off airport property the only way to remove those off airport obstructions is to get a neighbor that says sure I'll go ahead and do that for you guys and I'll pay for it and they'll do the clearing themselves or the airport has money or the city has money that they offer to them to go and clear the obstructions or a third alternative would be if you get an avigation easement over that property the federal government and massot will contribute the 95% funding to do the tree clearing on those properties so then we we we negotiate an enement Pro thing with those owners by we we'll take care of these trees correct So based on the discuss based on the CIP discussion we had on the 26 the way we've laid this out is in 2025 you essentially get all your environmental assessment any sort of Meep up uh permitting the obstruction analys and the vegetation management plan out of the way y the obstruction analysis gives us that clear picture of exactly where the trees are so you know what property owners we dealing with then in 2026 you would go after avigation easements over the off airport obstructions on those private properties and negotiate easements with them they do get compensated for an obligation easement they're paid fair market value what you do is you go through an appraisal a review appraisal a survey process you determine what the impact is going going to be on that property owner there's a fair market value calculation that comes into play y the property owner gets paid uh compensation for that obligation easement so welcome to A New Nightmare it could very well be a nightmare depending on how the relationships are with neighbors yes I've seen we've recently acquired five avigation easements for Pittsfield airport that was completed I want to say in 7 to 9 months um we've had other avigation eement projects that have blown up in the airport space they take a hell of a lot longer there attorneys that get involved um just putting that out there that does happen right so um so then in 2027 this assumes that now you have your avigation easements you go through your design your bidding and your permitting for tree removal on and off airport property in 2028 you would actually do the obstruction removal and in 2029 we have placeholders we have the wildlife fencing in 30 it's land uh it's the SR building and then uh I'm not sure why land acquisition oh that's a carryover Jim you had wanted land acquisition to prevent uh further development within the approaches so as you start getting to some of those out years like the wild Hazard fencing Sr building land acquisition I don't get too crazy one way or the other what projects we stick in there we just want the capital Improvement program to be reflective of something so that the agencies know you have a need or projects that you're looking to to establish and a plan to do it I think first things first first and foremost my opinion for the airport commission would be to conduct the environmental assessment the obstruction analysis and the vegetation management plan assuming we can drive some of those costs down to get them to be two 2 and a half% I know it is a struggle to get the local share out of the city we're very cogent of that so we may not be able to do all of those projects in 2025 you may need to kick some out to 2026 or even 2027 unfortunately uh I made a comment earlier when you you had asked if the airport was doing everything it needs to be doing to take care of all the safety projects and I said sort of and what I meant by that is if there are known vegetative instructions in your approaches you really need to start taking steps to address those obstructions corre you got BR spank a new Runway new taxi way um new hangers with aprons the last thing you want to do is have the airport end up with displaced thresholds because you have obstructions off airport property on Airport property so the first thing that needs to be done is I can tell you right now that the you know easement Acquisitions and tree cing are going to trigger the need for that environmental assessment so that's number one um I think the obstruction analysis coupled in with that makes perfect sense that we know what we're talking about as far as where the obstructions are and can convey that to the airport commission perfect um whether or not the vegetation management plan can fit into 2025 depending on that cost I don't know maybe that needs to get kicked out a year uh or even slide down into 2027 along with the additional permitting um I think that would be an okay approach it would be appropriate certainly because it is tiing or pering um in an Ideal World if you could knock out all of those sort of necessary document projects and then move into the actual Construction in the meat of the of the CIP that would make more sense but again local sherff going dictate that aware that is the 95% good for only two years though my our understanding is right now based on the reauthorization is that and again we're still waiting for guidance if you if you heard Colleen uh from fa the other day they're waiting for internal guidance on how to roll that out I believe it's 2025 and 2026 right now is the 22% which kind of makes getting the the bulk of this stuff in 2025 26 a target of opportunity because the local share is driven down on that right versus waiting till 2027 where you jump back up to 5% so it's a it's a balance I know for the runway project uh I went in and met with the mayor myself and Arman du frin if you remember Arman we went in with Ken Bon and met with the mayor and kind of laid out all of this CIP what it means to the airport what it means for the city um I would like to think that that was influential in him deciding to contribute the local share on that I'm happy to do that again once you know we sort of decide what's needed as part of the CIP go back in and explain to them what the stuff --------- ##VIDEO ID:wpujl79VX_s## means I understand that it's it's not the easiest read and it's not the easiest thing for someone that's a non-aviation or consultant type person understand why do you need to do these type of projects why can't you just go and cut the trees um there's a lot of prerequisites that the FAA and N have one of them being your environmental assessment the other one being avigation easements if you're looking to do off airport tree plan um I don't necessarily need a vote on this um other than you know if if you well maybe we do maybe we do want to take a vote that as presented knowing that 2025 through the 202030 the projects could change based on local funding availability and based on on state and federal funding they may not have the funds to kick in for these type of projects too so so you're looking for a motion of continuing with the master plan going forward with the first three steps with the master plan in pursuing the projects in 2025 that will allow us to take it to the next step sort of refine these get with uh with Jim Isabelle get with the city and just see what we have for local share to pursue some of these projects okay anyone second that yeah uh any discussion all right all in favor the yeah the um I forgot thought oh I know the last time it was done Kenny made a comment he said that all the owners of the properties local were very agreeable and did it but some of the properties have changed right that goes out quite ways and uh I'm surprised at how I don't know the elevations surpris me that's most approach [Music] areop CH ra tracks helicopter couple three four years ago helicop they have this chain Chaw bu on it along the tracks They just trim all the trees there like six six Buzz on the bottom and they just drove along one of the James Bond movies had one of them in and show cut buildings in half and stuff like that but thank you Matt thank you Jackie thanks to your patience and I know that's a lot to digust so appreciate it we have anything else on the calendar we have the manager's report so just briefly I distributed um email today just to go over kind of what we're working on around the airport it's mostly trimming of bushes and trees just to get those away from the fence line we're going to take that pine tree away in that number five um we're just looking forward to the winter make sure we have everything in place um the one ton dump truck is 21 years old we'd like to kind of B that I have somebody look at look at it next week to see if it needs anything they'll also give us a free u oil change that y y as you see the saring club is here for two weeks while the Sterling festivals going on we're very happy to have them and um you know maybe at some point in the future there will be some reciprocal you know going on and uh just we're very happy to see them and have them there so see them please say hello have they made a contribution for their yes PL yes uh I filled the diesel tank um to be ready for winter um I see some new planes out there yes they've been coming in all weekend um that's that's basically it if you have any questions on the budget we which I attached to my email uh please uh let me know we have a very small flat budget um this year it's lower than it was last year if you have any questions please let me know you I the repairs and maintenance is basically for emergencies it's so low that we we're really keeping it for the you know any fuel tank problems that we have in repairs um at one was the last year gym that we had to have them out uh twice which was $1,600 per per time come which you know basically takes up that whole amount so we want to be careful with that repairs Bill U you know because it really doesn't amount to much and energy and utilities went up because our electricity went up the Vault has is you know extra Templeton rais their prices um what else vehicle supplies is very low for the year so we have to kind of be careful there some incumbrances that we had from last year we paid an old bill as you can see on the final page the the bills that were paid so far this fiscal year um one of them is for the bill the uh and they still call me every week and that's that's basically it and if you have any questions um do we have a list of what income we do have coming in from all the rentals I don't have is it possible we could get that and you would mentioned that uh the city keeps something part of that yes so I also have um the fuel expenditures from the beginning of the fiscal year through September 2nd it just shows how much uh people have used it we is 18 1826 gallons and uh sale total is 10,922 23 the city keeps um a portion of that and we reuse that to buy more fuel they actually uh keep the revenues and do not use that as part of our budget those are gall these are yes there also a secondary report that 9 months 00 gallons uh no this is just only from July 1 okay July 1 through September we used 1800 gallons if anybody wants to see that I'd be happy to give it to you uh just has some personal information on it so it's going keep it private and um that's basically it but the city does keep uh the rents and the fuel because the input has other expenditures such as uh a large insurance policy um an umbrella policy in cases on injuries or what have you and uh things like that that are not included in the budget so you know we might want to talk to the city at some point and see if we can maybe keep uh a little bit more of that to do some on theut um you know maybe use some of those uh funds for our 2 and 12% share uh and that's it that's all I have thank you a good work Iselle you say that they're keeping what do they they don't give us back all of the profit from our fuel T from our fuel sales they sell they keep that it doesn't go into the budget for us neither does the rents um because there are other expenditures that they're paying for for the airport for the airport right they have to be all to the the fuel stay separate so that they pay for the price changes yeah so at some point maybe we could you know talk to them again and see if we can we can keep a little bit more because of all the projects we have coming up that would be a good discussion for mayor and lot now and then why can't we keep this if you have a know that is specific project no and you we go to the city we we can petition the council to appropriate M right too on specific things um that can be done handled that way too it's nothing is there completely install yes some of those safety um you know environmental things that you definitely need to get done so we can I have and we have any figures on the guide system yes those you I have I didn't get your email for what you have there I have another I did I sent it to you sent it to everyone yep it was this afternoon it was this afternoon it's what account did you send it to your home oh you didn't send this to the commission account no I sent it to all the Commissioners I um so I will send out those to everyone as well all right okay Canim we have anything else to talk about the U there is a gentleman who I thought he might be hit tonight from down at Tanner Hiller from where Tanner Hiller Airport bared they uh he's kind of looking for an alternative home um it's rat I don't know him what's his name rat uh Steve Grady was telling me about him he has uh he does uh ultral lights he TOS up hand gliders with ultral lights and uh you know they um he's got the the airports for sale and uh the land trust I think is going to get him but they're going to end up closing them down for a while and he wants to go someplace to uh possibly operate for the next few years I don't know how old he is he says he he was planning on staying there for the rest of his working days but he might have might be forced to move and he's uh in 25 they supposed to to destroy everything at the airport and they're hoping to make it take down all the buildings and cuz they pushap and Fish and Wildlife uh has a lot of Demands on there and the land trust who handles rail Trails cuz they have railroad tracks going or have a railroad bed down by there and uh he's hoping to be able to talk them into to let them have a brass but in the meantime bre has um is he going to need a hanger he has like 12 hand and his option was to um and I he he didn't have any specifics on it he said even something like one of those temporary building tent tents that have a structure inside Place someplace on the property um or something like that cuz he's got about 12 H gliders that he uses and uh of course the guys bring in there or the 12 yeah he's got 12 hand gliders and I forget how many planes he has they usually stay somewhere around he lets them go with 3,000 ft when he gets over the airport or or whatever and then they hang fly around okay but wanted to know if we would entertain him coming in he doesn't I mean I I don't know what kind of tried to get him to come tonight cuz he would be able to only call me this afternoon is he willing to pay well what would we charge I don't know well how big of a building does he want it's a t a big one of those temporary buildings that's what he's talking about there but it would be square fet I don't know how much cuz he would only 10 you would have to put it up and all that s of stuff they have one down stering I missed it what's he do with 12 H gliders toes gliders he toes the hand gliders with the ultral lights okay is he up a traffic pattern altitude so there's a guy hand glider is uh you wear a harness and it's up overhead right yeah and he's touring this human being being who's wearing a hand glider up with a with a with an ultra light with an ultra light M and what they usually end up doing uh cuz they were there was a whole bunch of them in Jaffrey for a long time and they use a right-hand pattern as a general rule and they and they're at 500 ft you just said he's going to go to 3,000 ft they go off the property to them out the airport property and release the gliders and then they blide so when they first get going the the hang glider operator is running maybe in the the you got me I've never seen it happen well tricycle most of them are running I think have come to the next meeting we can talk to them yeah well better yet have them give us a demonstration yeah but the uh yeah they have for a while here out here yeah and that maybe the area that they could use or something like that if we wanted come for the next meeting and give us a demonstration that would be and we can hear listen to him directly of everything yeah I've never actually seen them the way they operate especially Towing something else you know everything I've ever seen has been an airplane P the black and that's that's even I've never never see a lot of hand gliders jump off cliffs right it sounds like a safety issue well it does but hey give us a demonstration we can we can discuss it from there it's all the people are in the pattern but you have to know your your place in the pattern and if you're on a right hand pattern you're opposite everything else so that's that's how they separate them and the helicopters do the same would think a hand glass uh would need uh a very long downwind or base leg uh or final to uh land anywhere not very long oh my God I don't think I mean they're Landing so they standing up when they but I don't know you have to ask somebody who's done it I bet he's uh making an inquiry here because no one else wants to entertain this he's in well he's in Barry Tanner Hiller he's losing his airport and he wants to continue to do it you I think it's well if he willing to come in and give us a demonstration and willing to come up with money maybe it's then and it does one thing that it does attracts people there you go and uh so are you looking for a vote on it or are you no no I just I don't think we have enough information to vote on anything okay because I think I wanted to bring that up that and if he doire further and if he doesn't show up next month and he's really not interested it makes it that simp