recording okay I have 502 for 503 for the start and May 1st Wednesday 2024 um have you had a chance to look at the minutes from April 3rd which was one page and she just kind of clb forward I think we have to approve also and I did not still the meeting before that minutes March 6 yeah you got something there you want to pass them around or you want you want to approval on what J on the meetings of the minutes of last meeting last meeting and March okay I don't have marches but I have did you you got marches Mee no not you with you IOP of well we can approve the April meeting and we'll have to get back to the if you want we didn't have a forum but we you want to go over what what was done we're going to be covering that kind of again aren we the only thing that was um we had the uh estimate for the independent survey for the uh 18d survey survey and the city share was $4,500 and that was submitted to Mayor back in March I think it was more that one still that one still needs to be submitted okay are you still waiting for approval on the first it of night of our City sheriff 50,000 so so the deal is um we brought this up last month but there wasn't a forum so the 18b survey is still necessary we estimate the local share to be $4500 okay there was another piece that came into it uh regarding the apron the main apron where M do offered to do reconstruction of the main apron um working with own and massot they've agreed to fund the Reconstruction of the main apron at 100% so there's no local share no cost to the airport no cost to the city that's awesome which is huge yep uh as a result of that we anticipate underruns in the runway project meaning we don't need additional monies from the city to do the 18b survey the intention is to use the underruns from the runway project and apply those to the 18b survey you have a cost of the under I do so on the second page of uh Gail's update you will see a financial breakdown and this is related to The Runway projects to $ 4800 yes sir $4,800 is what we anticipate so you still need to do uh the fence repairs need to be done by Ray maker um there's some additional punch list items that they're coming back out here to do but our estimate is based on their their estimate doing the fencing project that you're going to have $4,800 a little over $400 uh in underruns for the runway project which can be applied to the 18b survey perfect um so you're wanting a vote on that I would I would appreciate uh two votes tonight because we didn't get a vote last month even though did a little bit of an update but um yeah if we could get a vote on whether or not to proceed with the repaving of the main apron at 100% Master OT share I think that'd be one vote I'd be looking for right and the second vote second vote would be to proceed with the 18b survey so we had a scoping meeting with FAA M do Isabelle you were kind enough to jump on that meeting as well where that stands right now is Owen at Moc is doing an independent fee estimate so we put together a fee for M to review there's obviously the aeronautical flight that needs to happen they go out they fly the whole airport they look at various things including your reels the runway environment and all that get uploaded into the airport's data portal that's a that's that's non-negotiable it needs to be done real up to date the reels are up to date but they they can't be commissioned until that flight happens all right because the last meeting we were in the real work we not working and they and they won't be working they won't be working so you get exactly so that equipment is still coming what the approximate date I don't know yeah I don't have an exact date on that but we are looking at June we'll make sure that the flight doesn't happen until those reels are up and all right so we can't do anything with that until after that those are in that's correct all right so then what would be the vote for the second because so so the vote for the second one because there was never there wasn't a formal vote and I think it would be appropriate for this body to take a formal vote on would be to proceed with the 18b survey utilizing underruns from the runway reconstruction project V vote one would be to approve us to move forward with the Reconstruction of the main apron at 100% that was the one that was we we want to clear up last month's because okay get that minutes approved for that first and then we can discuss all the rest of this after that so we have to kind of do things in order um so you want Jim do you want to make a motion on that on the first thing well somebody has to make a motion I make a motion on the uh 18b no we got to do the minutes first well we don't have the minutes you have the minutes from April 3rd okay and I want those approved so that we can move for okay I make a motion to accept the minutes of April 3rd thank you anybody questions on it or anything second second okay and then we can move on to the we we can I'll have to bring in the March 6th you can look at it online or that CU we got to approve those minutes eventually okay we can't uh I forgot to bring them I thought they were there in the package but I had okay so do you want to see if everyone's all any discussion on the motion and there any discussion on the minutes from April 3rd no discussion pass what's the vote yeah okay approve approve okay now we go to the old business and we always start with new you can jump in all right so he already did that we want to make a motion to accept 18b while it's for the repaying to use the overrun to repay the repaving of the main apron is going to be covered at 100% there's no there's no under runs or any any local share associated with that well we have to approve that right I'm I'm looking for a motion I think that'd be appropriate make a motion to approve the apron projector okay um and a stupid question the the apron is this area right out here to the West which is currently inhabited by the little white car cor it's not a very big area right the footprint stay the same footprint is going to stay the same corre we about tie any tie downs there's there's two sets of tie downs out there right now um our preliminary analysis leads us to believe that they're not acceptable in terms of FAA standards for wings said clearance and clearance from Vehicles right um I spoke with Isabelle spoke with Jim my understanding is there wouldn't be any heartburn with the removal of those tie downs okay um that's kind of where we stand with it moving forward there won't be tie out there okay so those will be removed that's correct where is the where do the repaving start at the fuel we're going to go yeah I took some pictures of it my intention is to take it from where the saw cut line is coming off the gate right here it kind of goes around the white vehicle that's there up to the saw cut line with the the new taxi way running all the way down the taxi way it comes up it jogs a little bit so the other Taxi way for the hangers or the taxi lane and then in and around the fuel farm this this hanger that's out there okay and around correct and if TI is needed at a later date is that optional that we those can be put in they I mean it's they certainly could I don't think you're going to have the dimensional requirements necessary to put in tie downs in other words you're not going to meet FAA standard for tie downs out there we got plent TI Y no I just want to make sure that we can cover all these questions but the good news is as part of the master plan that we'll get into in a few minutes knowing that you're losing zo here that's something that we can consider somewhere else on the airport if they're needed perfect that's the total cost of redoing the sa uh that is currently under the independent fee estimate with mot as we speak so I do not have a cost on that at this time I thought I heard something around 400 Grand no it's I thought it was more like 80 no I want to say it was like 174 that that's Ray Maker's cost but that's still like I said they're still processing that sending that through M for that if process so I I don't know the exact I'll have that probably for you next mon all right perfect and then be done what start finish so the start date is obviously dependent on mot's ability to finish that if um but it needs to be completed by June 30th of this year so okay and it'll happen pretty quickly I think they're estimating probably yeah 2 weeks 10 10 business days to complete the project the planes out of the way tenants are asking they because they're just coming you would ask me as soon the minute we get word that this thing is green light green lit from I'll let you know so you can look okay thank you we got to so we got to vacate our hangers that J for a period yeah well you're not as as picky as my am because they'll probably be well I don't know the ground isn't bad on the other side there but uh yeah for two weeks [Applause] um okay then we've got the second half of that was was going to be the the 18b motion the 18b um transfer the funds overuns yep utilize underruns from the runway project to fund the ATB survey that'll authorize us to push forward the Grant application to the FAA if they're going to if dot is going to pay for the 100% of the apron reconstruction project why are the uh 48 79 underruns uh being discussed at the same time because I think we have the under runs is for the 18b which is the survey that's correct City's portion of the survey and it's not part of the runway reconstruction okay is the ramp is not part of the reconstru Okay so transfer the funds to okay and that is approximately 4,800 bucks or 40 approximately approximately $4,500 $4500 okay and I need a motion make a motion to accept the uh 18b and the uh overruns second second any discussion pretty much beat it to death and everybody's in agreement y next so um the last time I saw most of you was at the March meeting um we talked a little bit about FAA and M's comments on the forecast chapter and at that time I give gave an update on what fa was looking for since that time um you know one of the things that they were looking for as we had already discussed was the critical aircraft um so that's been updated in the redline copy of the forecast that you have one of the one of the uh many attachments that you have here um which one you want us to look at uh chapter four forecast of Aviation Comm um so we had already discussed that it seemed like everyone was on the same page at that time um if you recall FAA was still looking for more information to support um you know evidence showing um showing sh a growth rate and really without that they wouldn't support uh deviating from the faa's terminal area forecast so you know Isabelle and Jim and I really did some digging on the on the fuel data and um there really just wasn't enough evidence to give FAA to show the deviation from that terminal area forecast growth rate of you know zero growth in operations um was really warranted so um the forecast chapter has also been updated um again at the um direction of FAA to show that we're accepting the terminal area forecast growth rate um really and I think I discussed this um at one of the previous meetings but the the growth rate in operations um and and growth in operations would really only come into play if you were looking for a large facility for example uh once operations reach a certain level a parallel taxi way can be justifiable you have a parallel taxi way already um you know if um there was going to be estimated you know a significant number increase in operations you might need um additional tie down spaces at the airport on on the aprons things of that nature but you really even with the the previous very small growth rate that was in uh the previous proposal you wouldn't be seeing those numbers that would Elevate the number of operations in B aircraft to Warrant anything you know any additional facilities anyway so they're really showing the zero growth rate is a kind of no impact to the airport and to the master plan um so really what I was hoping from everyone uh today is to uh vote for Gail to resubmit the amended forecast to fa for formal approval um so that's really one thing that I'm looking for today and then the second thing and I'll I'll go over I hopefully won't um you know be too wordy or lengthy but hopefully we'll go over chapter five here that I have a copy for everyone um and then maybe we can kind of play a little bit of catch up and I was hoping for the commission to authorize me to pass chapter five along also to FAA and massot so that they can start their review process um really the only parts of the master plan that require formal approval are the forecast chapter which I've already had you know I've had discussions with Colleen Mayu at FAA about the changes and she is in a position um given the change that you see redlined here to accept that forecast and the other thing that would need to be approved is the Airport layout plan ultimately at the end of the process so when we're talking about submitting you know chapter 5 to FAA we're not requesting an approval we're requesting just their comments and feedback um so I guess if anyone has any questions on the forecast maybe we can start there and then um and then I'll get more into chapter 5 does that all make sense to everyone and get the you know the with the growth rate and what FAA is what FAA is saying well they they always the same data yes yeah exactly exactly yeah and and really what they what they were waiting for was you know to see if there was additional fuel data that would support you know a support a growth rate um in operations and there just wasn't enough evidence so what we what were we missing for that did we have missing reports of how much fuel was was sold or bought or um we had we really had to dig to get any additional information on the fuel I mean Jim and Isabelle can ATT test we had to reach out to the fuel company and actually ask them to pull all their records because the the city records just didn't have you know what was included previously was what the city had on file available to us so going forward we know what the mistakes of the past are and what we need to do going for a 20-year project to make sure that we follow to make sure that we can get the recommended funds and the growth of going on well I mean I don't I don't know that it was necessarily um you know I I I don't know that it was really anticipated you know that that FAA would you know they were really looking for us to either validate the terminal area forecast or show evidence that there was a justification to deviate from that and so there just wasn't enough evidence to show so really the record keeping and making sure that you have um you know you have the records of your fuel sales and you have any sort of especially operations data I mean I know you have the guard system but I don't think it was there wasn't really anything that was being maintained for such a long time correct that's that's that's a mistake that was done by us or I should say our previous um Commissioners that wer weren't being called so going forward we more attentive to all that sure yep and the more the more information that you can hang on to and keep um for the future the better so um you know and again I don't know that it really would have swayed one way the other um you know it showed us where our downfall was so no problem thank you very much you're welcome um any other questions or comments before I request a vote to resubmit the forecast to the FAA for formal approval okay you a motion to accept the report for the FAA anyone want to Second it the uh tax Skyhawk is not gross weight 3600b I'm sorry what P you want here um 15 4-5 okay up at the top you got a Skyhawk in which is maximum takeoff weight okay is 3600 lb this comes directly from the faa's database I took these numbers right from their database um I I mean do you have any I sure well I don't I mean what kind what kind of difference oh I think it's something like that different only four passion mine is 36 what about Kevin's playing that twin engine no we're looking at a 172 I can um I mean I can I'll double check the only I know it's not that I can double check the fa yep and but but realistically Jim um really it's really only coming into play If you're looking at an aircraft that would be over the 12,500 lbs so then you start getting into you know into a category that's beyond a utility Runway nitpicking about the they're nitpicking but their information is probably some wrong okay so it's I'll I'll double check only because I two Sky yep understood understood but 30 years ago yeah IDE and then because we don't have the the guard system we just started basically accumulating some data from that I've started recording gallonage off the off the meters both here on the main capacity capacity of the system that's electronically calculated and then off the actual meter that we put in airpl I do see a couple of things that have changed a little bit that I noticed too we go every time I do a test it puts a half a 10 of a meter of fuel on on the meter oh it automatically and I do a test every day so you know at least it's probably going to be something like you know 300 half t a year but uh we'll see how that works out I'm not for numbers statistics yeah yeah yeah so I mean any information that you can keep for for next time around and you know keep up with it it it will be extremely helpful cuz I mean you you and Isabelle can both attest to how much digging and phone calls and everything that that had to be made to right and uh this information if you it's easy to accumulate it if you do it every day or a few times a day I'm just trying to figure out a way a good way to count the number of take off and landings that actually happen because I think it's a little higher than what we lot of people have been using yeah well the good thing is you know if the guard system is up and running and you are tracking these things and you find at a later time wow we have a lot more planes coming in and out of here than we thought and that would warrant some sort of you know additional facilities you you can always revisit it at another for just a forecast that's right and everything's going to change y and and so my goal is to drive those numbers up as high as we can depends on how effective we become to do that and get this turn around how would we track aircraft over 125 that be something separate aircraft over um oh gosh that's really hard um yeah Flight Aware would would track um might might track it um but really have the professional version of it to see that we we don't we don't that [Music] got that system only counts radio clicks yeah system is I thinking sh a can go up to 14,000 but can we put that a new guard system in uh a new updated one in our master plan well what we need is something that does more than what the guy will give us okay you think is is I don't [Music] know look at I don't know I think Kevin I don't think no I don't think they are they're they're on the most of those are Caravans notable anyway that big this is only looking at flyable airplanes active actively registered flyable airplanes I'm sorry which one actively registered flyable Aires is what that yes is looking at is not flyable right that's right right it would have to be so you when you're starting to talk about the the aircraft in excess of the 12,500 lb you'd also need to have that component of does it make what's considered regular use of the airport and if definition of regular use is 500 or more operations per year so even if there were a large aircraft coming in here say once a month or so um it it really it wouldn't trip that be anywhere near tripping that threshold of saying you need to design your facilities to this larger plane you know so I mean it would be help certainly helpful to know and to know what's coming in and out um you know um what as far as what you have but it's it really wouldn't make a difference unless you were like seeing you're like whoa this thing is coming in a couple times a week now if you started tracking that then that would that would matter thank you for clarification yeah you're welcome um any other questions concerns anything on the forecast before I request the the vote I know I had oops the motion and a second no more comments on the forecast for now so we're approved chapter chapter four y did everyone vote you this okay okay great thank you so much so I will resubmit this forecast to FAA I expect to turn around on the approval very quickly um so that's good and then we'll play a little bit of catch up here so at um the April meeting I um I did provide J Jim with a copy of chapter five and and and Andy I believe you too um but I I provided everybody with a with an amended copy I know um the copy that I had provided last month um um did not have the obstruction information um and the approaches listed we were still working on that but I wanted to get it out at least so people would see it so what I'll do is um I'll just review I think we had reviewed some of the preliminary recommendations at a prior meeting but it's that must have been back in March so I'll try to kind of quickly go through the recommendations and just stop me if there's any um questions concer concerns comments um and then hopefully if everyone's comfortable we can get this um you know approved to to go over to the FAA and N coot for review as well um so I'm not going to read through every line item here um Runway capacity Runway conditions as far as pavement is concerned um you know following the completion of the runway project that's all going to be assumed to be an in good condition meeting the needs of the airport so I w't get um you know too into depth here um as far as runway length we have that on page 5-5 um so really um the recommendation here is going to be just due to um just due to the constraint surrounding the airport um you know Airport Road all the wetlands back here uh the recommendation is going to be to maintain the runway at the current length of 3,000 ft um probably the biggest discussion we'll have tonight on page 5.5 theyve got 3,400 ft is approximate for small aircraft and then they but the actual L is ,000 correct yeah but there there are a lot overuns 200 foot over runs on each end that they consider that by the runway no no no it's it's a it's a recommended um Runway L for it's not a required runway length this isn't a requirement um but you know again just the constraints that you have Airport Road and all of the um you know the access road and all the L down at the 36 end um it just just really achieving achieving what you would need to achieve between um actual pavement Runway safety areas acquisition of of um air easements airspace easements tree clearing everything that would go along with that I know there's a lot of terrain issues already um you know as far as obstructions are concerned so it just you know it just doesn't seem like Fe a feasible um it doesn't seem feasible to to recommend added Runway l so getting into the runway approach requirements on five- six um as you know the uh Runway is currently na at night uh we did some work reaching out to flight procedures to kind of get a sense of okay what's going on here what's the reasoning for this restriction um and we were told by flight procedures that there are a couple different things going on number one uh there are visual approach obstructions um in Flight procedures database I did reach out to them again and request some information from them um to really pinpoint where they're identifying those areas they said that it was vegetation and some terrain um that they have identified in their system so I'm waiting for some more information on that um well that be taken care of by the uh construction grp they coming here or is that something that we need to take care of ourselves it would probably be something that you know really without having that information and knowing knowing what's out there and what they're identifying some of it may have already been cleared and it's just a matter of updating faa's database so if that's the case um you know we were in violation on that end because of those birch trees but rain maker took those all down okay I don't know if that was identified as a that was a violation those trees being here you took them down if that has anything to do with this it those would have been visual approach penetrations and it just may may be like I said a matter of getting their system updated but the the other piece to this is um they the flight procedures office needs to see on file that there's been a night evaluation that's been conducted and that's you know that someone from flight procedures will fly the approach and check for a whole host of things they want to make sure that all your Runway lights are operational they're operational at the um intensity that they're supposed to be that when a pilot clicks on using the radio transmitter that the lights are actually coming on um they want to make sure that you're um you know there aren't any line of side instructions things like that so that would need to also be conducted and the airport would need to pass so not only the the obstructions penetrations but also the night check would have to happen so um so they recommend ation here is you know once the offending obstacles are identified FAA flight procedures to determine the best path forward for mitigating or remov uh removing them and um scheduling a night check once you know you've confirmed that all of that is so you you've been talking to them to try to find out which obstacles and vegetation they're talking about correct and you'll let us know once they yes okay so what might they subject our Hazard three hazard lights right if we got a finally determination that they need are needed or not needed so we have submitted the um we've submitted through faa's oeaa system um airspace cases on all three of the beacons those cases um they say it's a turnaround time of 45 days but often times it takes much much longer so so they so those have been those have been submitted we did we did resubmit those I think it was maybe even in advance of the March meeting immediately wouldn't that be required on part of the night uh flight in that if not necessarily I thought the FAA said that those were not required so that's what the determination will tell them it will tell f um if these if these towers are they are they penetrations do they need to be do the towers do they need to be removed do they need to be replaced do they need to be maintained and again without that information of you know first first things first are the beacons even necessary and do they need to come down so how do we knock on their door a little harder and find out cuz it's going over here we can give you the EM address the person I got no problem knocking on door knocking it forever so if you want to me that I can give you all the um Robert I can send that along to you and give you all the the case numbers and the submission information and yeah I mean the more people that are that are on top of it um the better okay and that would be a che bone is that okay with everybody y great that would be that would be helpful because they I'm I'm the mosquito in the year all the time you know they C okay and too the okay so I will that over so um again waiting on some more information from fa flight procedures to kind ofer in that best path forward um let's see and then I'll move on I'm not going to read through all of the approach um information but just um there's some background information starting on page 5-7 about the approach departure standards and go going into um onto page 5-8 there's also a figure figure 5-2 that goes along with the section that shows um the known obstructions on um to the airport's um clearance surface so the surface that's shown here is the approach surface that is you know required to be maintained clear um based on the airport um you know IFR circling uh procedures it's a 20 to1 slope correct the base of it correct yep so if you look actually right yep so if you look at figure 5-2 and what I will call everyone's attention to specifically is um if you remember when we were originally scoping the master plan um we were very limited on the budget for the project so um additional things like aeronautical surveys um and and things like that um that you might include as part of a more robust uh master plan were not um we were really just not able to be included as part of the project so the obstructions that you're seeing listed on this figure and this is kind of where I would request um assistance from everyone here that you knows a little bit more about what's going on um these were taken from the previous Master plans obstruction information um and and so really we don't have a current survey of obstructions on on the Airfield so if any of these that you're seeing um on the plan have been cleared like I believe okay the runway 18 the little red areas that you see those are all the the obstructions that have been identified pictures correct those are those are the trees yeah those well so these are again these are obstructions that were known at the time of the 2008 master plan because that's the most current obstruction information we had so you'll see actually the so part one would be have any these trees are they are they accurate have they have they come down I believe the runway I know you've done a lot of work on the 18 end I thought Jim yeah [Music] down directly in back of the okay okay so if any of the the red areas that are shown here should come off those some of those they're pretty far out I was going to say I don't know anything up 118 Fe well there's also terrain there that comes into play yeah the uh two rout two is under the 18 it says this from the 2008 yeah so when will that do those those trees were cut off I don't know exactly when they were but it wasn't more than few years ago now when will a new survey not then the there you'd have to you'd have to do an additional obstruction um survey that included in the master plan that is not no no would be extra oh yeah yeah it wasn't it it wasn't scoped as part of the project we were we were kind of this actually doesn't even include any of the 18b survey May grab some of that information we'll take a look at it all right and whatever we can forward along even if it's just preliminary data yeah we see yeah but but really you know as far as as far as um getting information what you know what needs to be cleared what's truly out there um you you really know trees off the North End were cropped at the top I don't know how many years ago you might know thatn yeah now I checked I got got the I took on top of the Reel I just took the my laptop set it up pointed it out dipped it back 10° and turned it 15° and looked out and there was nothing there are some trees right on the edge of it and I think by the end of this year they'll probably grow up into it but I plan on taking those are I can get get but on the other end there nothing I've even i' got more I want to cut down here just get them out of the way cuz they grow yeah keep small yeah the stuff that up close stuff grows in grows in so so quickly I mean really really I never realized how firm the ground is how Bey on the beyond the safety area um there there's a actual rise in the ground probably maybe 3 4T after the safety area I never realized there was anything out there I thought it was on Swamp but it's beond this side of the swamp so but there there a little small cluster of trees right there and I've got half of them cut down interesting stuff um yeah so really the recommendation here is to actually seek an obstruction survey to determine what is out there and What needs to come down [Music] any questions anything I can answer on the approaches before I move on I don't want okay great um so moving on Runway Pavements we've already talked about everything is in good shape um you'll see here I've pulled um the pavement condition plan from mot's website Unfortunately they still have uh some older information on the runway and taxiway so all of that should be green um but they they update these about every 3 years so this should be updated um you know this should be updated with um keep the mode so recommendations um just continue maintaining the Pavements all your um navigational and approach AIDS um that will instol as part of the the runway project your U Runway lights taxi lights uh guidance signs um you know rotating Beacon wind cone um all those things you know are are or will be you know new following completion of the project um the Precision approach path indicator I know we talked about this um um as part of previous meetings but just recommending that um you know conducting that aeronautical survey like we're talking about and installing a um py system as part of the future project as f is available um moving on 5-11 um weather observing system um the airport does not have uh an AOS or any sort of weather observation equip and I know you're relying on um you know Fitchburg weather data and there's a significant difference due to the elevation of gardener comparison to to Fitchburg so the recommendation here is you know consider installing weather observation equipment that could be in the form of um weather cameras I know that's been uh quite successful at other airports um particularly in you know Alaska and things like that and it's a it's um a less expensive alternative to a full um a or Asos system looking out the window doesn't count you're not here does doesn't it's uh that's something that would be funded by our master plan not funded by the wouldn't be funded by the master plan but massot would contribute funding towards it the fa would consider contributing funding towards it we should they'd be separate projects so everything that's being recommended in here yep would be a separate project outside of the master plan but it's generally speaking eligible for FAA and state funding yeah all uh taxi we taxi Lan conditions um you see there's a taxing pavement table on page 5-12 um so you know any of these um taxi lanes that are aging or um you know reaching failing condition we're recommending um replacing them as funding permits um again like Matt was saying is as separate projects um anything that is FAA eligible and funded um if it reaches below the pavement condition um rating of 70 um it typically becomes eligible for um AIP funding you know as long as it's as long as it's an eligible piece of piece of pavement as then you don't have it's not an exclusive use area anything that's exclusive use wouldn't be funded by the FAA um apron capacity on page 5-13 so uh based on our calculations of existing um base aircraft tie downs and then transient aircraft tie downs seems like about 16 tie down spaces at the peak t would be needed um to accommodate you know to accommodate the the aircraft that you have and that you're seeing um currently about well I guess 31 tie down spaces as it as it sits today but I know there would be a loss of a couple there but you should still um be you know be okay um as far as the number of tie downs that you have on the airport uh when you start getting into reconstructing um the parking apron out here um you may if you're reconfiguring things if there are loss of tie down spaces you can account for those in other areas or potentially um plan for an expansion or something like that to make sure that you're able to meet um the anticipated demand that's in this forecast those have to be on all the tie the tie down are grass we used to have a side of the fuel yeah they have to some so getting into 54 um conditions of the apron the recommendation is to you know uh redesign to comply with current um design standards and then you know reconstruct them as funding permits um hangers like every other GA airport um I think that we've worked with the New England could always use more hangers I know they're quite costly but as part of the Alternatives we can certainly explore areas where those hangers might be able to go um so we're just recommending here replace um agent hangers and fund and you know construct those funding permits um five 15 I think we've discussed the snow removal equipment building needs at length at this point in the process so we're recommending um programming construction of a a 1600t snow removal equipment building um or you'll see later on um potentially a combination Sr administration building um we've made a recommendation for that in the admin building section uh fuel facilities um doesn't seem like there's a demand for jet fuel currently but um if there is a demand for jet fuel in the future um commission could consider adding a fuel truck um no I have had one call for that asking if we had it administration building again I I think we discussed at length um the recommendation here is to to either construct sandalon admin building or consider a combination snow removal equipment building with some administrative space um you know something like that I was up inake and they've got a fairly new hanger andain office building up there it's not not much lger than what this is but they had a conference home with the back uh small car with two bathrooms and an area a little bigger than a little wider than this maybe and they had a car and was the office area and then I didn't get into the hang cu they were it was all closed out but um not bad or so yeah quick question uh the general that owns the hanger at the other end of the f um is made get known that he's going to sell it at some point is that something the master plan our grants could go to purchase it's possible how would we do they do Renovations Asos toil complete build I would certainly have to look into all the requirements as far as like renovation and cost and stuff like that go I know Turners Falls they did receive grant funding you guys know the Turner Falls pioner Aviation they they got funding to acquire pioner Aviation so it seems like that's a similar proposition here I don't know the ins and outs of what the lease agreements like or anything like that I'm just saying from a a broad brush overview it seems like something that would be possible okay so how would we look into that I me we you just give us the authorization on your behalf to coordinate with fa and not C we could do that right because I mean if if it's possible that it could happen that would be a lot less cost wise building a new one never mind that well there a lot ofs in that right but again it's already there yeah so you would move the that would become your building down there I would think so this could then be tear down and build into new hand we could certainly you know maybe consider that as as an alternative when we get into that chapter I mean we just have to be careful and make sure we stay forecast what an a would be to start and that'll all be included you know that that can all be included as as part of you know any sort of alternative will include and and it's a it's a planning level estimate it's not getting into you know the the Nitty Gritty but to give you a ballpark idea of what something like that could potentially cost you get tangled up and all the when you go over $50,000 I think it's still that level for any any have to comply with the that's a good no that's a that's a very cre why parent down old building which is to me a crime it also opens up a p of worms there could be violations there there could be a very tank you know well yeah you want to do like an environment all that and it is in pretty rough shape that's come up in the past sell it to us but what he wanted just too much money at the time yeah we we haven't had any money for years so yeah but that's why I say we got to here again it's a there's a method to the madness as far as planning goes and that is it it cost money to you need do that but you have to work at at those Cs and that's where we got to sit and figure out what we want how we want to do it yeah we'll we'll work through your priorities through this m s yeah absolutely but that that's a really good suggestion thank you good idea um so keeping it moving forward um 5-16 vehicle parking um it seems to be adequate based on discussions I haven't heard anything from the commission to the contrary does anyone have any input the okay great um and then equipment snow removal equipment and maintenance equipment is you know um just continue maintaining your equipment and replace it as it becomes you know it as it ages out and you know becomes necessary to replace y um 5-7 the last item we're almost at the Finish Line uh perimeter fence um as we all know we're going to be entering into that Wildlife Hazard um site visit project and the results of that should let everyone know if there there is you know a wildlife issue and then from there a lot of the recommendation that comes out of those assessments and other ones that I've seen is you know full perimeter fencing to exclude Wildlife from entering the Airfield so it just consider installing full perimeter fencing to enhance safety by preventing Wildlife from entering the Airfield um and again we can explore uh different Alternatives and configurations of what that might look like when we get into your Alternatives which will be chapter six that's going to be a pretty fun process um and I'm excited to dive into with everyone but are there any questions um concerns any um opposition to moving forward with passing chapter five before the FAA to get their you know again it'll be in draft format still but to get their comments and their feedback um is the only question I have is by property acquisition other than what's on the footprint for the airport part of this part of the process or how do we I guess can you what's the question specifically additional property around the airport it becomes available yeah we want to be able to jump on it or be able to expand for aeronautical purposes or for anything I mean just to protect that from somebody building an apartment house or putting res who owns the property right now well is that City owned or no privately own privately own I mean there well there is a k 13 acres up here on the North End and we got Tom Po and Phil here he owns property down there I don't want him to start shooting guns at us again from the again well we don't know who you know but we don't I just you know it's it's the neighbors that close down the airports and there's uh if there's property available that can be purchased so that the airport on it then you can control what's on it correct so my in my experience land that is necessary to protect like approach surfaces your bu protection Zone airspace things like that it's a no-brainer you can get grant funding for that all day long um if you're talking about land out this way that really has no bearing on future aeronautical activity or non aeronautical use well AAU from the standpoint if we want to expand the uh you know say nothing about cross runways or anything like that even expanding a footprint uh for commercial operation of some kind uh which would be a small level but um we're entering a new age where we will take off stuff electrics and all that are going to come in and we have a pretty good location what would work with that I would I would agree with that point and I would say that needs to make its way into this master plan but it's it it's chapter 5 or chapter that'll probably fall under chapter six because chapter five you're just getting into what we have and sort of what you have approve let me just process yeah this is your facility requirements well you might want to add a section just speak to um fure gos aeronautical if it's going to be for vertical takeoff and stuff like that that that's use I don't really need much of a Runway no but there's there's the whole thing's changing it is and there isn't even rules written yet right and there isn't a certified yet either but there coupl that you already have it in place and have a need for it not a want for it wow here again you can still like we can still identify it in in the facility requirements I mean what we can do and I'm just kind of think out loud here but what we could do as part of this chapter is just kind of identify what the goal would be well the goal is to be able to expand and get this airport self-sufficient what that takes I don't know but I don't want to have be shut down and have the close because somebody built an apartment house close enough and complains that we don't you know yeah I think if you're trying to acquire land to pre that unless it's in your rpz or approach surface you're going to have a very difficult time selling that to the FAA right if you're looking for additional aeronautical purposes well it would for Dres or or mostly that's a different story right but it's until you get a buyer you're not going to be able to do it but we've got land that we can do for that right now however it's going to bring us closer to Neighbors in other words if we expand on the other side of the Runway start digging out the sand leveling that off we're going to be closer to the neighbors be complain because it'll be right in the back hey just you know I mean it's trying to preempt that and that's the number one reason why they're trying to close airport yeah it's happening all's got to realize that we got to stop that and here again some for sale and The Bu the airport bu they trying to do that at hand right now hand lets expand and they say that it's going to affect uh uh well Pond and I don't see how Spain the was going to affect Wen Pond when they're probably 3 miles AP that's not that close what deon's closed and that should never have closed but the people in Harvard stopped it simple is that hey I'm going to tell you a story I have about 7 and a half to 8 and 1 half acres of industrial property in downtown Gardener it's been there since early 1900s but uh on the western ins side we have adjoining properties which um are immediately adjacent to the west and separated from our property by a piece of railroad we use all the time and I'm not exaggerating I have U children at 4: in the morning walking around on the railroad tracks uh police coming in to look at that recently I've gotten several uh complaints from the city of Garder about the piece of property you own down through which all the high press water that feeds the fire system travels but there's so much uh junk child's toys destroyed bicycles old coolers junk that we've been asked by the city garment to clean up our property which has been sort of turned into a trash dck by these properties that are immediately Jason to us uh to the west and so we're being very seriously impacted uh as an existing functioning business employing 150 people by the fact that all of these ten tenaments and dilapidated structures are our immediate neighbors and so if someone had thought about that 50 or 80 years ago as being a potential problem we wouldn't be dealing with the problem we're dealing with right now which is exactly what you're talking about right and it just that's why we have to and the FAA has to realize that protecting the airports is part of their job too and I'm not exaggerating when I say unused unsupervised four-year-olds at 3:00 and 4 in the morning have been seen toddling around on the railroad track and we've had police calls about that as a result of the keep the kids at home the way these these families exist in these structures yeah no I agree it's just shocking part of the wildlife control yeah there it is keeps people out to but that's it's far thinking to consider that this is why I'm just saying that the you know mostly in California right now all the when the industrial area around the airport gets built up was built up was industrial then they moved to China yeah they bought up all those properties and started building a pment hous now then the needs of the people living in these properties PR they don't want the needs of the ridiculous and it should never have been resed and it also comes down to the city well sure but I mean it's just part of it and we have to get ourselves to a position where we are viable so what is the vote you you're looking for and the vote is to move this forward chapter five chapter five motion to accept chapter 5 it's just to forward it to FAA massot for review okay second same thing happened at P's used to we used to fly in there with the 707 and there too much noise we get calls every night so are we all accept thank you very much um the other um item that I have and it doesn't require vote just a quick discussion so when we start getting into the master plan alternative I would like to have a preliminary meeting with FAA Mass do and a representative or two from the airport um to discuss project Alternatives and just kind of get everybody on the same page before we go too far down the road and FAA or mot you know um may have uh thought to the contrary of what everyone's thinking so um is there a representative or two from the commission Isabelle someone who would like to it would be a virtual meeting at some point over probably the next month to just kind of start getting this is on the wildlife nope this is on the master plan to start getting into chapter the chapter six Alternatives I just want to have a preliminary discussion with FAA M and then like I said representation from the airport I just need to know the date as soon as possible I'm already booked out till uh the middle of June right now work from 9: to 5 so I just need as soon as possible so I can book off the time okay so Robert and Jim and is how are we with the uh grass and fixing that that's part of the punch L items for R makers once they come out to do the apron they'll be taking care of that they'll be doing that at the same time Yep they're trying to avoid two different mobilizations and will'll be pretty soon yeah I mean they were ready to rock and roll early April it's been the state in that whole funding process that holds everything up but it needs to be done before June 30th so it's okay yeah problem is they've got to I know they were talking about they want to see what's going to grow up they want to do something it's Now's the Time It's gr well just I mean I M for the first time this week same at home and uh they don't want to have to do something that they don't have to right now we sold that Frost last weekend but Saturday and something was cold okay um so I don't have anything else the wildlife Hazard um site visit there's no update um since you know previous Mee so yeah that's basically on that y exactly so as soon as that comes through we can you know we can move on it and hopefully get through that process pretty quickly as well um but I think I have everything I need I hope everyone feels comfortable there's any other questions other the St system for back notes think that'll be going at the same time as they're doing the grass and T yeah R makers uh I believe I don't know if they did they speak I think they spoke on theone I don't know if they they were they were I gave them all the numbers and he had I think he had a couple of them already but they're yeah they they went down multiple weeks so they'll be together they'll be OPP I think the only thing that's questionable is the Basin that they with the rocks in it for filtration before it goes under the taxiway half full of dirt and it's growing grass on top of the dirt and then rocking underneath it what does that say that found you look at the area that they rocked in for filtration and all thatu stuff it's full of Sil okay and gr and it should be Rock because that's going to fill up and it's going to continue to fill up till we get a good layer of grass gr and pretty soon it's going get into the fight and I'm really concerned about that put thech and then they got to repaint everything the painting FR Co pain summer aw yeah we get our way now we got to have warmer weather you're getting there with that but U yeah it's that concerns me I go we were looking at a crack over by my hanger and across was one opened up about they start there steal some shs but other than that I think we're not too bad shape we did uh have one broken taxi night is I took care of she yeah I was going to mention experimental ride but we can get into it with a report what broke it a mall um ta I spoke to him and he said I came in hot and I think I had a tailwind and he didn't stop at the end he curved curved around took out the light and almost took out the sign he landed about 12 in before our brand new sign and he apologized is he covering the cost of it um no Jim and I fixed it for nothing fix um he doesn't want to be known of course and I said well you should have called us and um he said he will next time I said I hope you know be careful tail dragger didn't have enough runaway Landing here is that what you're saying he came in high he said I said you did 3,000 ft you used all it plus part of the dirt yeah he had a Tailwind I think he should have been direction that sounds like it yep anyway we have a new tenant on the tie down ramp um I'd like to get a few more airplanes out here um quickly I cleaned out all 18 tie downs there was dirt and grass growing in them and old chains from long ago that were all rusted uh uh those are all cleaned out for future future use um I've acquired three picnic tables out they out there they were downtown Gardener and they replaced those with metal picnic tables downtown and asked for those and they gave them to us are you going to keep them inside or outside the fence inside I was going to put one down at number 10 I was going to put one over there after they re uh inside the fence means to the west of the fence is that that yeah one out there after they hyp seed and I don't know where we should put the third one if anybody has any suggestions but uh they're nice they're old they're wooden they're very sturdy very heavy they will not blow away they will not blow into the taxi wear or anything like that and uh we can use them awesome yeah um red up areas that we pushed up with the snow plow um I'd like to replace the wood trim on these five Windows right here it's all rotten yeah the 1 by sixes we don't have any money for that until July 1st when we started a new budget if anybody would like any to make any donation for us to buy one by sixes please Pine one by sixes 3/4 inch Pine boards yes just one by six should they be Pine or should they be plastic well Pine is the cheapest if any anyone would like to donate please put it in the coffee can and we'll see what we get all of them are rotten you can put your finger right through them who's going to do the work I will um if we get if we can if you give me a list of how much you need I'll see what the um chair Town L we willing to do for that okay uh the C system 5197 seconds 5197 seconds 87 minutes for April um that was 9 5197 5197 seconds or seconds 87 minutes also I'm still concerned about the electric bill but I really don't think we can do anything about it until the uh electric contractor is through um The Vault building was $176 last month it it has its own environmental system it's its own um heat AC yeah heat and AC that little building $176 and we've got it turn down to 51° and so this mon be $129 so I'm just a little concerned why it's so High um I was under the impression it had to be kept between 50 and 80 that won't be any problem 6 months of the year yeah well be a condition I just I just wanted to bring it up so because because of the electronics that are in there yeah it's an extra expense we cannot we cannot look at this until they finish whatever they're doing here and out there and then a month goes by can I talk and then a month goes by and then we can reevaluate and see what the final numbers turn out to be because I don't know that's in addition to our bill but our regular bill is also high for this building so I don't know if they still have you know they do still have things connected that might be the rates have been jacked up in 2024 by the the utilities uh oh that's true they're coming down they're coming down again but uh they're really I was paying 8.7 cents until 2024 kicked in and uh it what it went up to like 18 uh more than double and uh so that's might be part of the issue okay you did mention that okay all right well I'll keep that in mind um I just wondered some templon yes yes and it's LED lights we thought we might have some sort of savings there that would lead to a savings for sure yeah but maybe so that was it I'm just concerned about that keep on top of that and just figure out why it's so high I did call templon power life I said well that the number is the number that sounds that's it thank you I would like to see would anybody like to see what our projected budget looks like sure that would be great we could get copies of it could that would be I have haven't seen one so I don't know see what's allowed and what's not K's um I have stuff that Kenny had I'm trying to figure it out now I didn't have access to it so and now I've got so he had a lot of budgets in there and we have to figure out how we can work with that okay uh any new business uh yeah um Dominic's uh lease is coming up in June and I think we need to vote if we need to have him still here or remove him and uh if we do remove him then we can go forward on repairing The Hanger and make it more presentable to a better tenant are there uh perspective tenants that want to show up here and make use of a a better round facility we don't have any as of yet that I know um but can't get anybody new unless we do some serious Renovations in there never mind uh The Continuous problems that we have with Dominic I kind of asking around to see if there anyone would be interested um we could charge more money if we well they have to have business to be able to do it Dominic has some business he has like little to none he does have a few customers um that's what I said it has some business yeah but again we had problems with rent not getting paid for months on end never mind years and uh other issues within here as well never mind we really need to find somebody here that's dur here during regular working hours so that if anyone does have a plane problem uh it can be addressed and it's having nothing here now yeah somebody could replace a flat tire and not charge a fortune for it well how would you uh advertised for the availability of an FBO at a functioning wellmaintained U airport with a brand new Runway how would you adverti for the availability of such a slot well I'm interested calling around to different airports and schools um flight schools and you know schools and just to see if there is any interest we could even segregate it at 60 by 60 we could put a flight school in half of it and and the other half of it possibly that building is designed for holding aircraft yeah cutting it in half would make it true right that's not very well impossible schol here it's in serious need of updates it is a need of updates which if we took a look we probably see a lot that needed to at one time there was interest fromus at Community College on studing an aviation program and that was several years ago that'd be a good place to go have a conversation yeah and if you can get a flight school along with the college to support that they could base the airplane here have the classes there and then come down to the airport what was his name that did that what was his name he was the traffic pilot for what the radio station H not for forer so say need to vote on it to be able to give him adequate time to remove his stuff or keep his stuff um so it' be nice to have somebody want to come here before you pull the rug on right well sometimes you have an empty building an empty space and no tenants and you have to go find one sometimes that's the situation well we could fill with airplanes with a but we need somebody that's going to work we don't want to just do that probably right um that's a I don't know what the answer to that [Applause] is I'll mention to the guys in Pittsburg who are constantly uh working on my plane and giving me invoices and okay and see if they have any ideas in that Arena you know okay so the other thing that I'd like to bring up is that we need still need to be working on our uh I believe you call it your PPM our our book for the G airport that has not been worked on in over a year I've made copies of those books and wait to hear Judgment of how they need to be addressed so i' would like to see if we could start working on a section each month of the meeting so at least we could have that going forward what's that stand for PPM please I don't know what do you call the book uh yeah standard operations oh standard operation procedures I gave everybody the we had yes that's it well I I made the I made the books and they're still sitting in in a uh box and I've been waiting to be reviewed so it's going on over here to review we need to see okay you have here is have so where are they and I'll pass them out I've never seen your copy you have my I gave you a copy I have a copy but I mean I was going to say is I don't know where the others are well the others are in a box somewhere here I'll find them so okay we'll pass those out I guess the meeting [Music] mhm and that will have all the updated leases of everybody uh that's renting here um then we can go over the procedures of the commission and all the other fun things there's a lot of updates because that is pry will be a lot of updates I think it has been touched since 2008 yeah is that it so motion to adjourn I'll move next meeting June 5th next meeting we're going to touch upon the minutes from March early March right [Applause] you